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I am Dana Valley coming at you with out my fantastic co host Adam
frommel i Am. However, as you can guess, super excited to continue
our Team look Ahead series. Our two teams that they are gonna be the
Milwaukee Bucks and the New Orleans Pelicans. First up with the Bucks is thy
Windish. He is also from Blue ire Pods. He hosts the Eurostep podcast.
You can follow him on Twitter at thy Windish. That's at t I
W I N D s c H. We have a great conversation. Another
great conversation was had with me and Mason Ginsburg, who was also from Blue
ire Pods. He co hosts that in the No podcast and also provide some
words for Bourbon Street shots on occasion. Follow him on Twitter at Mason Ginsburg
ms O N G I N S b RG. We really go into the
weeds on the Pelicans and what to expect from them. Both of these,
as usual, they were a lot of fun. We hope you enjoy them
before we get started, though, just our usual reminder, our usual plea
rate review and subscribe to us wherever you're getting your podcast download every episode if
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Head over there without further delay, though, let's get to talking some Milwaukee
Bucks with Ty Windish from the Eurostep podcast and Mason Ginsburg from the In the
No podcast. Ty, Welcome back to the Hardware Knox podcast. I was
looking at the last time we talked, because it feels like it was sort
of recently, and it was three months ago actually, so that simultaneously took
forever but felt like it went by really quickly, because I don't know what
time is anymore. So, how have you been doing over the past ninety
days, for the past eighty five, the eighty five right after that,
or however many maybe eighty I was just okay, too bad, and then
the last ten or so I've been really really good. Actually. Also,
that being three months ago just proves that twenty twenty time is broken. I
don't know if it feels like longer or shorter than it actually was. I
just know it doesn't compute. But I'm doing really well right now, Dan,
thanks for having me back on. I'm wondering what happened within the past
few days that made your life that much better? Was it, you know,
the big news about I don't even know what the I can't even come
up with like a footnote news like was it just knowing that Bobby Portis is
backup center for the Bucks. He just when they wave Nicks doscis That really
comforted me a lot. I was worried that he would take up too much
of the cap. No, I think I think Giannis resigning is probably the
big one, shouts to Sauce Castidio, though. So I don't want to
force you to labor the point because I listened to the you you basically had
two emergency episodes on it, but I listened to the first one, and
so you reacted to the Janna signing. Was that the end result you expected?
Because the prevailing sentiment seemed like, oh, they gave up eight trillion
picks for Drew Holiday, like Yannis is coming back, but it took the
honest a little while to say that he was coming back. And I know
he was on vacation and away from the team and stuff, but it did
feel like there was the sense of and just from the piece that was published
at ESPN, I forget who wrote it, I think it might have been
Malika Andrews and Winhurst if I'm not mistaken, it seemed like there was like
some unease there where it was they made that trade without knowing he was coming
back, which, you know, I'll give my thoughts on the price that
they paid for Drew later. I actually kind of respect the fact if they
did that and didn't know Jannie was coming back, because that's like the ultimate
gamble. So I'm just curious as to one. Are you surprised, like
at that point so kind of close, I guess put an air quotes to
the deadline. Were you surprised it happened or was that just the expectation after
you saw what they paid to get Drew holiday. I was surprised. I
was surprised it happened, I think, and I know we'll get into the
very complicated offseason that they ended up having, which personally, I still think
a net gain for them this offseason. I think they're better. But again
we'll get to the some of the roster moves and roster non moves in a
bit. But I was definitely surprised, and I think I realized this looking
back the other day, is if you go back to entering the Bubble,
there was so many points where you go, if X happens, Jannis is
for sure staying, right Like if they win the Bubble title, he's staying.
Or even if they go to the finals and have a good series,
he's staying. Or maybe even a good Eastern Conference Finals, but I feel
like they should win the East, but at least like a seven game series.
They lose in the close series, he's staying. They're losing the second
round and horrible, hilarious, embarrassing fashion to the Heat who just really trounced
them. And then you go, okay, well if they hit a home
run and bring in and I don't. They didn't. They didn't have any
assets quote unquote, of course, they everything they did have they basically shipped
out. But you know, the news breaks that they get Drew and Bogdan
Bogdanovitch, who is apparently like Janie's blood blood, blood brother and best friend.
Voting the reporting, I think I think all things bogged and have been
a little over exaggerated. Yeah, we did not hear about anything along those
lines, like before the fact, I don't think they had an Instagram live
together, and everyone was like, oh, okay, they're friends. That's
they're they're friends in the league. That's cool. And then it's like like
it's being reported by like everyone is like, if he doesn't get bogged,
and he might just quit basketball. He loves this guy so much. But
obviously whatever happens happens there. They end up with Drew and not bogged,
and the honest is again, you know, soulmate or whatever, and so
it's like, okay, so then you know the thing they needed to do
again they didn't do. So then like the last ditch thing was like maybe
they get into camp and they all click really well, and Drew proves himself
and they run through preseason and be honest, is so energized he signs and
like when he signed, they were oh two, and they had two like
pretty embarrassing losses to the Mavericks, and Drew didn't play well, especially in
the first game. Again, it's like, it's not nothing long term concerning,
but it wasn't like this shot in the arm that's gonna can even somebody
to sign. Like it's not like they didn't like beat Dallas like one twenty
to eighty with Drew putting up thirty five and holding Luca to two points.
Like they played okay and they lost in Dallas. Is a bad matchup for
them, but whatever. So that's the context, right, Like every time
you thought you needed something to happen, it didn't leading up to this,
so it's like, Okay, he's probably not signing at this point, like
you gotta prove it this season. There's going to be so much pressure,
there's going to be so much media attention, and then like a random Tuesday,
he just signs the freaking thing, which I don't think many people saw
it coming. The Bucks have been quietly confident all along, but who knows
how much of that is just like, well, what the hell else are
you going to say? I would love to rewind a week and see how
actually confident that they were he was going to resign. I think it had
gotten a lot quieter. I feel like we were getting pretty pretty confid,
pretty consistent reports like we're quietly confident, we think we'll think we'll get him,
we have some moves coming, whatever. I feel like we hadn't heard
a lot recently. I do know that there was sort like there was some
reporting of like there's going to be a meeting after this game or on this
day or whatever with Bucks owners and yannest So maybe that was the only hold
up. I truly think he was thinking about it, especially as answers in
the last press are the only pressor he did before signing it. But it's
certainly a surprise. It really goes to show like how lucky the Bucks got
that Janie is their superstar, because I don't know how many guys, with
the tumultuous road leading up to this would have inked it, but Yannis did,
and that's all that matters. Yeah, And I mean, he was
clearly looking for reasons to stay like that was just apparent all along, which
definitely helped them. I am a little bit surprised that he signed it,
but I definitely think that regardless of whether he told them in the first day
of the offseason that he was going to resign, I fully believe knowing the
competitor he was, and I mentioned this to do in the last podcast.
I was hoping he would do it for the entire year, not to resign,
just to like fuck with the future of other teams. He definitely did
that a little bit this offseason, and I tweeted about that and people are
like, well, collide it at first when he kept the Lakers on the
hook, and I was like, Okay, Jannie had like a quarter of
the league basically on the hook this summer. You look at what the MAVs
did, you look at what the Raptors did, what the Heat did.
So I hope and I'm just gonna assume that he did he waited on purpose.
Yeah, he was probably valuating his options, but he was like,
oh, I'm gonna help get Bam paid in Miami. Because the whole thing
was they share an agent, so show Yannis that you're gonna take care of
of your own. I'm choosing to believe that that was actually what happened.
The Drew stuff I find interesting before getting into and I do agree with you.
I think they are a net plus overall on the off season, even
though it was definitely a rickety offseason. The storyline now is they need to
resign Drew. Right, you gave away like that much future equity and yes,
you still have Yannis. But if you don't resign Drew now you're a
net negative from where you were before. And yeah, you honest is under
contract, so you're still fine unless you requests out. But I'm not even
gonna get into like the nature of that. That becomes a whole huge issue
if a year from now or two years from now, something like that happens,
like that'll need to be addressed. We can't have these James Harden Paul
George situations and then I'll force my way out like very soon. I don't
think that's what's gonna happen, But I do think like the move they make
for Drew, is that a price you pay? I think it's a price
you pay if you don't know about Yannis because he's worth that. Is it
a price you pay if you're unsure what Drew Holiday is going to do in
the upcoming off season? I think no. I think the Bucks feel very
strong and this is not sourced, this is just reading tea leaves, but
I think they I think there's going to be a deal done so I know
it wasn't structured as an extending trade because I feel like there's some more limits
on those deals. And I know now they have to wait a little while
before they can do it because of the weird trade slash extension rules. But
they can still extend him this year, they just need to. I think
it's like February ish, they can sign him into a different extension outside of
the extended trade rules. I think that's definitely coming. There's like I mean,
obviously, look at what the Bucks gave up, right, and of
course there's a little bit of also the cost, like part of the cost
is like again the honest thing. Right, it's like the Paul George thing.
Everyone's gonna crowned the Clippers forever. And sure it's fun, they're the
Clippers, but like they wouldn't have traded that in a vacuum just to get
Paul George. You do that to get Paul George and to get Kawhi to
come. So yeah, the best way I heard that phrase, and I
think I've said this ad nausey. On the podcast, someone said Sam Presty
found a way to trade Kawhi Leonard without ever having Kawhi Leonard basically yeah,
like that that it was like the I can't say it better, that's perfect.
So I think that was the same thing, right, Like John Horst
found a way to trade for Yannest resigning in a way, maybe he still
does even if they don't get Drew. But at that point, like if
you're running back Eric Bledsoe, I think maybe maybe his calculus changes a little
bit on just how loyal he is. We just knew that wasn't gonna work,
so but I think that's part of it. But I do think,
like obviously the Bucks do value Drew. I mean, he was the central,
the integral upgrade that they got to make the honest resigning happen. He's
their best player they've acquired in a really long time if you look at like
where Chris and Jannis were at when the Bucks actually got them, very long
time since they've gotten a player this good, like from the gate, they
don't have to develop or anything. And Drew seems to really like Milwaukee.
I mean, he's been gushing about coming to the Bucks. He seems super
excited. I just think a deal makes too much sense to not happen,
And I think there's probably a little bit of you know, nod wink,
like we'll get to this when we can get to this after the extension window.
And so I agree with you it would be disastrous if they let him
go. I just don't think they're going to. I feel like now what
needs to be determined is like what the actual number is. His max extension
is like super a lot of money. And I mean again it's Drew Holiday,
You're going to be in the tax anyway. Whatever. If they have
to do it, they have to do it. But I think they're going
to work out some sort of a deal to keep this core for as I've
been calling it of Drew, Chris, Janna's Brook together for at least I
mean, their shortest contract there now it's probably Brookes or at least the next
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and conditions apply. I agree with everything you just said. I would echo
all of that. That's just there had to be some level of knownness to
the deal, whether it was you knew that this was gonna get you honest
to stay, but you had no idea on Drew or the other way around,
or both. Maybe they just like knew that it was gonna be both
the Are you looking at how it's gonna play out? Are you comfortable with
the price that they paid. I go back and forth on this because the
future equity is a lot, but you have Jannis. You gave up a
lot. But like Blood, those deals a net negative at this point because
we're talking three postseason's worth of samples of him just cratering in what it matters
most. At the same time, I do feel like with these deals,
not that it can shift the entire tenor of it, but you want to
try and get like the small wins wherever you can, and there would have
been a way to structure it. I guess if they weren't planning on doing
the Bogdanovitch deal in tandem, where you could have probably kept George Hill.
I don't think that's a deal breaker for New Orleans given all the pick equity
that they got and maybe them not knowing what was going to happen with Yannis.
And if it was a deal breaker, I mean, I guess the
bucks you can't walk away from that. Like that's where it gets uncomfortable for
me, because they're just so shallow. As you said, though you view
them as a net plus. I have my own reasons for why I agree,
but I assume they're going to overlap, so I just want to throw
it to you. Why do you think they're so decidedly a net plus compared
to where they were before this trade. I think the simple answer is Drew
Holiday, right, Like, I think, if you get a player on
that level, and I think a lot of people there's not really a consensus
on how good he is right now, and I get it. I really
do. Look back to that series against the Blazers where I think he was
like twenty eight and eight, I want to say, in the four game
sweep and like just an absolutely dominant pairing with a generational big man. And
hey, the Bucks have one of those. I mean they're different players but
a lot of similarities, and they honest can do a lot of this stuff
a d does inside and around the basket. I think ad more of a
polish back to the basket big guy with a better jumper. But and be
honest, is working on it, be honest, is always working on it.
It's whatever, but be honest. You know, can be a hell
of a roller to the rim too. I mean, his pick and roll
numbers are always amazing. So I think, like getting a player who can
elevate to that kind of level in the playoffs, next to be honest and
importantly next to Chris too. I don't know how many upgrades are out there
that Chris is not going to be in a deal, right, Like the
James Harden stuff, which it was always laughable to think James Harden was going
to be a buck, James Harden is never going to be a buck?
Could we just the I'm sorry to Trump, but there are two things that
are hysterical about that is one, he added them to his list. And
I know players don't always think in these terms because it's not their job too.
Not I don't think they're stupid, I just it's not their job.
But the books literally just traded everything in their their asset chest and he names
them. And also he said Jannie was only good at basketball because he's tall.
Basically like that, I'm so confused. Jannie and Harden legit hate each
other and it's awesome. Like Jannie does not have that relationship with any other
good player. He hates some random like scrubs for like international play stuff,
but he does not hate any other superstar like he hates James Harden. Yeah,
I just I mean he threw the ball in his face clearly, so
I'm just like, was I'm wondering if Harden was trolling? Was it a
typo? Like did his agent plug it in the phone? Is you know
he met Minnesota, but it's a Milwaukee's or my like he meant to put
Miami twice, Like, I don't why was Milwaukee in there? I just
found that a circle. Well, please carry on start. I think it's
the same like a d If you remember Ad put the Bucks on his list
too. I think the Bucks have now become like the It's like kind of
the anti Knicks. When you put them on a list, It's like,
our guy really wants to win and loves like winning teams and cultures. So
throw the Bucks on there, even though we all know they have no way
of making this deal happen and the guy is not staying at all. Right,
But but yeah, that's like there was an idea out there for like
three days, like the Bucks should have not traded for Dukes and they could
have traded for Harden. And I'm like, you have never seen an NBA
transaction unfold. Apparently that was never gonna happen. Yeah, even if they
like replaced Bledsoe with Middleton and gave up the exact same stuff. My guests
would still just be like Houston, like would have had better offers and they
would have waited. I'm assuming on Ben Simmons anyway, Yeah, exactly exact,
and Ben Simmons trumps whatever the Bucks are gonna do save you, honest,
and that's obviously not happening. So the way to maybe drive your honest
out of town too have been funny. They think they're requiring the finishing touch
and Jannie is like, yeah, I'm not signed as Supermax, you know
what, just trade now. Actually I was never gonna do this, but
I won't. I won't do this, But I think Drew raises their ceiling
so much just having like an elite third player like that now, where like
Brook Lopez is now clearly your fourth player. Where really in last season,
like during the run, he was their third best player, no question,
Like he had to be number three and he was really really good in the
bubble, So it worked out sort of, I mean it didn't really work
out, but it kind of worked out. But I just think like having
a guy like Drew can break down defense is a little bit dish a little
bit. I know, he's not like Chris Paul or anything, but still
can create his own offense, and that's that's something they just needed desperately.
He's not the pull up shooter everybody wanted. I think you just have to
compromise. Like if you're if you have a chance to acquire a guy like
this and there's not another guy like this who fits better, I think you
have to go for the worst fit, which ironically is kind of the same
idea with Bloodso I just think luckily Drew is a lot better. And like
the cost of the picks, So I hate saying this reported as like the
ad Halk because that's just like hilarious because the ad Haul the centerpiece was the
fourth pick in a draft. This one was not the centerpiece, but like
the only current pick was a twenty four pick, so a little bit of
a difference there. It is two unprotected first and two swaps, so considering
the bucksaw of be honest for I think all of those years except one,
you would assume the swaps probably don't happen. So they give up two bad
picks. Hopefully a lot could go wrong. But if I have to give
up, like let's say one bad pick and one okay pick and even one
swap to get Drew Chris and Janie and Broklopez for the next however many years,
like ten times out of ten. I just don't care about twenty twenty
seven. I don't care about whatever eleven year old currently is going to be
picked that year with the Bucks pick. I just don't I'm sorry, I
don't care about it. I would do it every time. They had no
assets except those assets they literally emptied out the cupboard, and I just think
it's one of those where New Orleans probably had them kind of you know,
in a bad spot leverage wise. I know other teams wanted Drew, so
I think the Bucks made sure they got the deal done, because if you
don't get that deal done, then all of a sudden you're in a real
dark place where it's like DeMar Derozen. I guess there wasn't a lot of
great options out there, and if the if the options are overpaid for Drew
or have to you know, get into the DeMar Derozen sweepstakes. I think
I'll go with the overpaid for Drew. Yeah, and I'm pretty much with
you in lockstep the entire way. I think what there might be a discrepancy
on is how much better Drew is than Bledsoe And you could probably compare them
defensively. But even then, Drew Holiday just gives you more optionality when looking
at who he could like Eric buttso can't defend wings, like maybe you could
put them on ones and twos. Fine, Drew can guard threes and no,
he can't guard every three, which is probably a like a problem with
this roster that they need to look at at some point. So I'm just
one. I'm tripping up because Rudy Gobert just signed a two hundred five million
dollar extension with the Jazz, which is an awful lot of money Supermax.
No, it's not quite there, but it's it's very close. So it's
more than I was expecting him to get. Good for players getting their money,
but that is h That is quite the decision by the Jazz. They
absolutely did not have to. It's my thing. He's not like replaceable,
but I would have I would have chanced it into free agency if that If
two hundred million dollars was the price, generational defender, there are a lot
of jazz people listen to this podcast. Good for Rudy Gobert, that's all
I could say. It'll be interesting to see how that deal ages. But
so Withdrew, so there's the defensive stuff, and then the other thing for
me is he's just not he had like looking at the Bubble specifically, like,
yeah, he had some rough moments in there, but he's just eminently
better on offense in the postseason. He's a slightly better shooter or a lot
better shooter off the catch. He's gonna probably hit more pull up triples than
that he I would say Bloodsoe probably has like more burst than him at this
point. But like, you don't need Drew necessarily create from scratch a Ton,
you just actually need him to be a better outlet for Chris Middleton and
Yannie I would say, so, I think it's it's an upgrade there.
And look, that's where the Bucks have stalled out, Like they were incredible
during the regular season, but they've have stalled out the past two playoffs.
I feel like they have been wake up calls. And so now you have
a guy where no, I don't know, like I feel like he's I
don't want to say he's solvable like Bledso he's definitely not solvable to that extent,
and so it is really an appreciable upgrade. I just going from Bledsoe
to Drew and for me to even say, you know, was it worth
it to give up Hill as well as the picks if you're looking at just
the players, because as you're saying, you don't care who the Bucks were
going to draft in twenty twenty seven right now, like this is about Janie
and I fully agree with you Hill and Bledsoe, Like that's not amounting to
Drew for me either. Hill shooting is just absurd, but he's sort of
like before last season kind of struggled to put together some consistency anyway when you
look at you know, he was like hot and cold with the Jazz,
he was his time with the Calves, I don't even he was like playing
for all these other Kings was like such a mess too. So they definitely
paid a premium. But I think Drew makes them a lot better, at
least in the playoffs. Maybe not in the regular season because they're so shallow
now, but I would say in the playoffs they're just a much more dangerous
team with him. Yeah, And that was really the whole goal, right,
I Mean, that's all I mean, that's how often I Bucks fans
and probably everyone been like nobody cares what the Bucks do in the regular season,
Like nobody cares if they're going to run off sixties sixty five wins in
an eighty two game pace, like like no one's gonna respect them for that
anymore. Like it's just not impressive to people, right, I mean some
people, sure, it's nice, but like everybody's saying the same thing,
we need to see it in the playoffs. And now finally they seem like
that that's the organization's impetus too, is to prove it in the playoffs.
And the one last thing I'll say on Bledsoe, which I mean, first,
good guy, good player in the regular season, like shot say Eric
bledso But like I've said, and I'm not the only one who watches the
Bucks closely, Like if the Bucks had gotten regular season like the best of
regular season Eric Bledsoe in the playoffs consistently, they have one championship, probably
over the last two years. Like he was so so bad against Toronto,
a series that was a lot closer than people remember, very nearly a three
zero Bucks lead. And I don't even think the Bucks could blow that one
against them, and like again like a closer series than people remember looking back,
Like all of those games pretty much were close down to the wire,
very good Bledsoe. I think that overwhelms Toronto and even getting out coach the
Bucks would just be too good. And that's they're gonna need to be able
to be out coached and just be too good. That's still something they're gonna
need to do. But like Drew is better than very good regular season Eric
Bledsoe, and there's no evidence to suggest he won't be that guy in the
playoffs. We have the opposite evidence. So yeah, I just think it's
like it's really hard to measure if you're like not up close to the Bucks
and you're just like Drew holiday Eric Bledsoe, kind of a horse apiece.
And I see people saying that, I get the logic, but it's like
up close and personal seeing Bledsoe in the playoffs from far away seeing Drew in
the playoffs, I don't think there's even a comparison. It's like night and
day for effectiveness as a player. So yeah, I just think being able
to do that makes it worth almost any cost. The weight is finally over.
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experts. And the other thing, too, is like looking at some of
Drew's I don't want to call them struggles or maybe limitations, and New Orleans
just overstrained as someone who spend a lot of time on offense as the number
one option, probably less so than normal last year, like even in a
non Davis year, just because Davis isn't going to initiate the offense, Like
I don't even want to say Alonzo, like an Ingram so just being in
Milwaukee where you have Chris Middleton and Janniss at the Kompo and even thought Deven
Genzo like that just helps out a great deal. So I would expect him
to be you know, maybe his offensive numbers drop, but I would expect
him to be more efficient, especially amid the buck spacing, and just have
more energy to expend on defense because he kind of slipped off the ball last
year according to Pelicans Twitter, I thought he was still just as like really
good on the ball watching him, but I probably don't watch enough Pelicans to
say that with definitive definitiveness, so that has to help him too. My
next question for you, though, is still in that plus off season,
what is your impression of how they rebounded from the Bogdanovich snafu? Like,
I don't even know what we call this. Uh, someone got a little
bit too giddy and decided that, you know, this needed to be broken
before it was legal to do so. And more than that, like to
be more specific, who do you think were like the best new additions or
the most important new additions of their you know, their rebound group, you
know, looking at Craig Fords Augustin, Porters, etc. First, the
bogging thing, I've now there's been some reporting from national outlets that like he
didn't want to be the fourth guy behind Drew, Chris and the Honest,
Like he wanted to be him Chris and the Honest. Which if that's the
case, like you know, use some of that Atlanta money to reevaluate,
like you're standing in the league Bogden like again, fine player, like thirteen
points per game, Like relax, buddy, relax a little bit. But
how they did on the rebound, I think DJ Augustin is critical, and
I think that's one they probably we're going to get either way. Considering he
took like a small portion of the mL, I think they would have been
able to use roughly the same portion even if they got Boggden. So,
like, I thought that was a really good addition for them. I was,
Honestly, it was funny because a lot of people were like, before
it got reported that the third year is like barely guaranteed, like one hundred
k or something very small. A lot of people like that seems like a
big overpain. I was like, really, I feel like full mL for
a guy who's been until last season, like a legitimately fine starter who can
like really is a very good shooter, especially in the playoffs. He's been
like forty percent the last two years, I think, which is again another
one of those things the Bucks just really need, and he can lead an
offense from the bench. Like, I thought that was a really nice pick
up for them. Again, it's like it's not a name that excites anybody.
It's not literally bogged In Bagdanovich. But DJ Augustine is like a really
nice sick man I think for the Bucks. And I think, honestly,
even if George Hill is a better off the cat shooter on very low volume,
that's the one thing with George Hill, Like he didn't take a lot
of threes last year when he did lead the league. But like, I
think Augustine will be a little bit better at creating offense for others and that's
something they really really need, especially with the kind of ragtag group of other
relief players they have. But I think a lot of people are gonna laugh
at me. I'm super excited about Bobby Portis, Like, I think this
is a great opportunity for Bobby. I don't expect Bobby Porters to play great
defense. I actually think if they have him played like simplified drop as a
pure center, it might help him a little bit, just because I mean
it's not easy, Like k Lopez's job is super hard, but like they're
not going to have him play four, They're not going to have him chase
permitive players that much. I think, like just stay around the basket and
getting the way a big fella and don't fall out. But his offense already,
it's just been super fun to watch, and it's one of those where
when Bud, when Bud does go to those all bench lineups, like it's
kind of nice to just be able to know, like what DJ Augustine and
Bobby Porters out there, you got some offense, Like you're always going to
be able to create some sort of offense. I mean Bobby doesn't even have
to be open to take a damn shot like Bobby Porters like shooting, and
I like that about Bobby porteris like they needed that on their bench like last
year, like George Hill, Pat Connadan, you know, all these guys
like they're sort of fine wing players, but they're not really like they're not
going to create their own shots a lot or at least not very well,
so it's kind of nice to have somebody who can do that. And the
rest of the new Wings are basically just like we'll see. I mean,
like Forbes, if he can hit forty percent his threes, he'll be really
good. We'll see if he can do it. Tory Craig is interesting,
and I think I think I'm cannibalizing your next question and we can just go
right into it. But like Tory Craig, I think a lot of people
are enamored with I'm not sold yet. I think he's gonna have to become
a little bit more of a shooter to have that much utility. But apparently
he's like a really useful multi position will defender. And it's nice at least
that they have guys who are like really good at one specialized thing, as
opposed to Pat Contidon, who's just kind of like some Knights, does some
things well and other nights they're just like, please never play Pat again.
So a few thoughts there. I think the thing with Augustin is he's thirty
three and is pull up three decline a lot last year. I would expect
them to shoot better off the catch, because again, his job is now
a lot easier. I think what my issue with that deal was, why
couldn't they guarantee more in the third year to maybe get a lower price now,
which would have then left them with more money to use in free agency.
That seemed a little weird to me. I also just don't i'd I'd
be curious to just see how he holds up in the playoffs. He's just
so small, and that's question for me. The addition that I like the
most and your spot on about Craig, if he can have like a season
like Bruce Brown did last year where he shot really well in the corners,
that would make him more playable. But his shooting is just so off that
it makes it tough to keep him on the floor. And if you're gonna
have Jannis on the court, like you're kind of already down like one shooter,
Like, yeah, he'll take them, but is he gonna hit them
in a league average clip. I like the Forbes signing the best because I
think they're probably they are better built to cover up for him defensively than the
Spurs were. Last year. He shot thirty nine point five percent on catching
shoot threes, thirty nine point six on pull up threes. And so when
you see like the pull up percentage match to me the catching shoot percentage or
even rise above it like it did hear slightly, I kind of automatically think,
like, well, that that is gonna be really good in a situation
that generates better spacing and higher quality looks for him. And so that was
actually my favorite signing for them, and I think he's going to be more
valuable to them insofar as you know, it actually plays him. I think
he can be more valuable to them than DJ Augustine. Bobby Portis I've seen
too. You're you're not gonna sell me on Bobby Porters. I get the
idea of, hey, he can shoot threes, and I'm assuming he'll hit
them at a fine clip in Milwaukee, but like his vision for the hoop
is like too tunnel for me, Like where if he's gonna put the ball
on the deck, if he's gonna try and do these weird post ups,
maybe that won't happen in Milwaukee. And he cost like he was cheap enough
where it's not like this huge deal. But I'm also like kind of sitting
there wondering, like why did Bobby Portis get the bi annual with a player
option after the season he just had. I just don't see it. So
they've just saved player options, man, that's the answer. There's the second
part. The Buck's love player options, so I don't have I think relative
to what they were working with, they did fine the Augustine deal. I
think they could have structured better to give themselves more options on the free agency
market. But as you said, sort of two. My next questions like,
how is this secondary wing rotations shaking out now? Because it wasn't really
great to begin with. And I said this to you in the email.
I look at their secondary wing rotation and Pat Connaton is alarmingly important to this
team. So Bucks Twitter is currently like revolting. They're they're rioting about Pat
Cottonton. They already want the second round picks to play more than Pat Cotton,
which no way that happens until like mid season. And the only way
it does happen then is if Pat continues to play really poorly, which I
don't think you will. And those guys play really, really, really really
well, which Sam Merrill sixtieth overall pick. I mean, the guy is
a freaking Flamethrowy shot like fifty five percent from three in preseason. He might
actually get some minutes. Wara. I think he's going to be a little
bit slower to come along, but we'll see. Merrill already played more as
of the third preseason game, the third and final one. But as for
the backup where the reserve wing rotation, I think one positive sign for Forbes
is they're already starting to kind of run the Corver plays that they would always
do for Corver, like they're really they're looking for him, like they're having
him run through elevator doors kind of they're having him like they're setting a lot
off ball screens for him. So I think already we're kind of seeing some
evidence that like Bud is I mean, but it's always been a fan of
guys like that, I mean Corver However, many however, I don't know
how many times, but it's called for a Corver pin down in his life.
But it's a lot, and I think Forbes is going to start to
see it's gonna see those as well, which is good. I think the
same just quickly to go back the same reason that you mentioned with Forbes,
like about they can cover for one guy. That's my DJ Augustine optimism too,
right, Like if anyone's out there with Drew Holiday, Chris Middleton,
Jannie and Brook Lopez, like you can cover for one bad defender if he
injects some real spacing into that group, and that's spacing is going to be
super important. So that's why I think taking a swing on two guys like
that, who are nobody's gonna look at them and go they're an elite defender.
They're both pretty small and not great there. If they can hit threes,
it'll it'll I think work out for the bucks. But I think we're
gonna see some hot hand stuff like Bud did two years ago. Honestly,
like whoever's on a role is gonna play, and then it's gonna kind of
shift around after that, just based on match chops and kind of it's gonna
feel a little random at times, like there's gonna be games where Tory Craig
plays five minutes and everybody's Matt because Pat played fifteen. And there's gonna be
times when you're gonna see you all the other guys play more. I think
Forbes right now is doing good to establish himself as more of a real role.
I think just getting those pin downs showing that he's kind of being emphasized
more than the other guys. But we'll see how it shakes out in the
actual season. I do think we're gonna see a lot of pat early,
and that could go either way. I think the contract is bad. I'm
not here to justify the contract. I think he's like a fine reserve wing.
Like I don't think he's a bad eighth or ninth guy. It'd be
great if he played more than that considering the resources allocated to him. But
it really all depends. I think I'm the jumper and how patient he can
be defensively. He is basically known for any pump fake or not, just
like jumping behind guys. It's like he just loves jumping, and I get
it, Like if I could jump like that, I'd probably jump more too.
He's a really impressive jumper. But he's just gotta like he has all
the tools to be like a pretty good defensive wing, reserve wing. He
just needs to put it all together more. Yeah, they need one or
him, and we'll get to Dante DiVincenzo, Like one of those dudes needs
to shoot better. From three. I'm gonna need like sort of sort of
a bat signal when Brent Forbes is on a on a heater in Milwaukee now,
because I just assume that Bud wasn't going to play him enough because they
signed DJ Augustine. But if they're using him like that, I'm gonna need
you to like alert me to that on Twitter can watch it. I don't
think he's gonna get a ton of minutes, but I do think he's gonna
play like a decent amount every game, maybe like eighteen ish and yeah,
like in those eighteen minutes they're gonna try and force feedom threes. I really
hope we see we haven't seen a lot yet, but you Honest and playing
the third game like they would do two man actions of The Honest and Korver
last year that like just broke defenses. Like it's really hard to like in
the moment, like do we double the Honest and not let him roll?
Do we stick with Korver? Like this is like terrifying because they're both like
the opposite threats. I hope we see some more two man game with Forbes
and The Honest, But yeah, I'll definitely I'll let Twitter know when we're
in the middle of Bryn Forbes heater. Oh maybe some Bryn Forbes Joanna's pick
and roll with Jannis screener. Yeah, I would, I would appreciate some
of that. I kind of had the same question about the secondary big man
rotation, except there's fewer bodies to party and so are they just penciling in
like Bobby Porters and DJ Wilson are going to play a ton of minutes?
Or do you think the shallow well of bodies at the four five spots means
well, maybe we'll see more Jannis at the five since those lineups were so
effective last year, and then maybe we see more of Chris Middleton playoff.
Are are we planning on Tanasis just getting a bunch of minutes at this point
Tanasis might play. Is that part of this? Is that part of the
Supermax agreement? I will say, if you want to go deep down to
Bucks rabbit hole, I think on Greek Heritage Night last year against Denver,
the Bucks started Jannis and Tanasis and Tanasis against Denver. Tanasa's freaking clamped Yokich
for like six minutes to start the game, and the Bucks go out to
a huge lead and they didn't play him for the rest of the game and
the Bucks lost by a lot and after the game, I was like,
semi seriously semi drunk tweeting like maybe Tanasis should have played, Maybe we did
need more Tanasis. I don't think he's as bad as people think. I
think he's like a fine fourteenth and fifteenth guy. But we might see some
real Tanasis minutes, especially before like March or whenever they can add a fifteenth
guy under the hardcap with pro rated minimums. So I do think we'll see
that, Like that's gonna I think what they're gonna do really is wait and
see what part of the team is the weakest and then try to address it
with that fifteenth spot, which they're certainly going to use that when they can.
They just can't yet. But I definitely think the plan right now is
more honest at the five and then Bobby Porters also is the backup five.
So if you split the five minutes between Brook Lopez whenever he's out there,
which is like thirty minutes a game, Bobby Portis, and then Jannis,
I think kind of depends on matchup that gets you to certainly enough minutes at
the five, probably more than enough. So the four is the bigger question.
I think that's one of the biggest questions on the team is who's gonna
play there. I think we're gonna see some real like DJ Wilson opportunity and
I'm not opposed to it. He's looked better in the preseason than he has
in the past. The jumper is still a little bit of a liability,
but he's finally passing the ball, which if you look at his assist for
at thirty six for his career, it's like one maybe two. He backed
up four assists and twenty whiteside assist right basically, yeah, like he pretty
much would get the ball and just shoot it like imagine Bobby Portis, but
just very bad. And that was the DJ Wilson experience. Now he's actually
like he's handling a little bit, Like he's not an offensive hub, but
he's like he's a spoke right, like he's connecting parts of the offense.
That opens up a lot for the team and for him, and that all
of a sudden, if he's gonna hit some threes and be able to like
actually move the ball and pass against other fours, then you can see him
playing with Jannis a bit more, especially if you can hit those corner three.
So I do think we're gonna see DJ Wilson. I think there's gonna
be minutes for him, and they're gonna just see what they have and see
what he can do. He's shown he can be a good defender for sure.
It's all about the offensive end for him. We'll probably see some Tanasis,
like if somebody's out, I think we're gonna see Tanasas. That'll be
fun. I mean, nobody plays harder than Tanasis and Teakopo at all times,
but that is the rotation. We might see some Chris at the four.
I think they'll do that. I don't think they love it, but
I think they're like fine with it. I do think we're going to see
a better defensive season from Chris this year. He looks a lot spryer than
he has before, which is fun. He's like been getting a lot of
deflections, and I do wonder if they want it gonna keep want to keep
him on smaller wings more, which maybe, but I don't think he's like
too weak to hang with a like Tobias Harris type players either. Yeah,
there's probably some fours would like end up being problematic for him, but just
they're so sparse there that and like, how does DJ Wilson match up defensively
with fours, like, because fours are now basically wings though in a lot
of situations, Like he's gonna be fine against the Tobias Harris type. I
think he's gonna be okay. I mean, I think Tobias is gonna get
some wins against him. I think he's a little bit better at players like
that than he is against stronger players. Like he's still not like the biggest
guy. He's still more of a I would say three four than four or
five for sure, Like and not a great rebounder either, Like when they
played against the Pelicans, like Zion was just rampaging, Like they played DJ
at center and it was like Zion was just getting open layups, like he
was just way too strong. And of course Zion's practically a one of one,
but like, yeah, he's like a slab of marble exactly. Yeah,
there's nothing a lot of guys could do. But like DJ played really
good defense against Blake Griffin two years ago, Bucks fans still talk about it.
I think it was a little flukey, but I think players are around
his body type. He's gonna be okay. Yet I think really fast guys
or really big guys are going to be a problem. And knowing the Bucks
like, they'll match him up on both across the regular season because Budd just
like doesn't seem to care. But hopefully by the playoffs, they're not putting
him on like, you know, a Paul George kind of player. I
don't think that would work very well, but you never know. I would
predict that that would end quite poorly for them. If that is the situation
that they're facing playoff P, maybe it would actually work out pretty well.
Who knows. Pandemic P playoff pe was actually prett good. So I actually
looked up while you were talking. I was surprised that I didn't realize they
played Middleton at the four for almost eight hundred possessions, most of which came
alongside Brook Lopez at the five. I would have just thought that he would
be the four with Jannis at the five. In the time he was with
Yannis at the five and he was the four or just with Brooke. The
Bucks absolutely destroyed opponents, and they were a lot better on defense than I
thought, because my assumption would be that Chris is struggling with like the bigger
type wings than he compared to like the twos and the purer three. So
maybe that is something to watch for. And if he can give you minutes
is like the backup four, even though you don't necessarily want to refer to
that that, I feel like that makes me feel a lot better about their
rotation overall, because I know that Jannis can soak up back up five minutes,
even if people think they shouldn't do that in the playoffs because he can
be overmatched I guess in certain defensive instances, or it doesn't allow them to
cater I guess to how they want to use him defensively sometimes. But if
Chris can play like some four for them, I think that ends up being
sort of huge. But they might actually just need him to defend more of
the super true wings, I'm guessing, because West is gone and they're just
gonna be wings that you don't want Drew Holiday to go up against. Like
who's defending Kevin Durant on this team right now? Has it? Drew's done
it? But like they tend to want to put Janie on not the primary
options that he can literally just end possessions like everywhere else. But like does
that fall to Chris? Did they use Drew there or like you said,
you think it's gonna be honest. I hope you're honest. I wouldn't say
I think it's gonna be honest. I would love to see as one of
the I mean that that budd has talked about being and I know it's like
broken record whatever, this happens every year, but he's talked about trying more
things and like varying defenses more. I would love to see as part of
that, letting the honest be more of a stopper. And I think the
best chance for that, and like the most likely outcome is like Yannis being
like, yo, I want to do this, like I'm sick of playing
off ball, and he sounded a little pissed off, and they asked him
sometimes about like why are you not guarding guys and he's like, you know,
as the coach, like I'm just doing what the coach says. So
hopefully he's you know, kind of throwing that weight around a little bit,
like listen, like I want to guard. It's like I can play defense
because I mean, like like if you just look at defensive profiles, like
who would be a better Kevin Durant defender than the honest as long as he
wasn't getting crazy foul trouble, Like nobody else is really long enough I think
to bother him. Chris does okay, Like in the conference finals two years
ago against Toronto, Chris was actually doing and Brogden too, but Chris was
doing pretty well against Kawhi, Like what really killed them? If you go
back and watch it, like we did this at euro Set. We watched
every game and potted one for each game, as called it Binge the Bucks.
It was the worst experience ever. I mean we did the whole playoffs.
The first nine games were great. That series was tough, but like
Chris is like holding up, Kauai is taking and making some tough shots but
not really enough to beat you. And then the Bucks start like collapsing their
whole defense and like just not even bothering to cover Fred van Vleep, He's
like shooting ninety percent from three at the time, and it was brutal to
watch. But like, Chris is a better defender now than I think people
think like he kind of swung both ways, Like he came up as a
three and D guy and everybody thought he was like Andre Roberson when he was
never really that good. He was just very good and and he kind of
did fall off for a year or two, and I think now people are
like, oh, he's basically Tobias Harris on that end, like a fine
players just kind of there. They seem to overrate his defense like earlier and
then underrated his offense where it's like, no, he's not three and D
because self creation is literally this huge part of his game. That's why I
don't like to Klay Thompson comp said always inevitably come up with Chris because I'm
like, he's such a different player than Clay Thompson, Like he doesn't do
either of the things Klay Thompson does as well as Klay Thompson, but pretty
much anything else, I'd give the edge to Chris. It's hard to compare
them, but regardless, like, yeah, Chris Kin guards some fours and
I think he will do that a lot. But I do hope, at
least in the playoffs that we get more of like Okay, like if it's
Brooklyn, like Drew is on Kyrie and johannest is on KD and let's just
like, let's just make them beat our best guys. That's the thing that
kills me about the Bucks, like so many of their problems are these crazy
schemes and everything, when it's like they have the players, just like,
make them beat your players and see if anybody can. I don't know how
many teams could, but they have elected to do more of the weirdo stuff
and it's often not worth. The sort of next thing I wanted to hit
is the and we kind of touched upon this already is the notion that like
people have made jokes, but the shallow, the shallower rotation doesn't like almost
help them in the postseason because it forces buonos Are to not watch Jannie's minutes,
like where he needs to play twenty nine in you know, a make
or break game for them, Everything is make or break for that So is
there actually something to that theory of Okay, Again, the regular season might
be moretenuous, but in the postseason, the Bucks they're forced to be better
because buonos Are can't really mess with the rotation as much. Or is that
just a license for him to be like no, you know what, fucking
Cam Reynolds, come on down, like you're getting postseason minutes like Cam unfortunately
wave now that it would be h like Mamadi Diakite, you're in Tanasi's time,
baby, I wouldn't. I wouldn't put anything past. But I do
you think there might be some truth to it, Like I don't think he's
gonna play ten guys if he doesn't Legit trust guys eight through ten, Like
I really do think that's part of their issues. Like I don't think he's
that dedicated, just like the art of playing eleven guys. I just think
he felt like they're eleven guys were too good not to play it. I
don't know if he'll feel that way anymore. I think the interesting thing about
just the minutes thing, it's I don't think Janice is a good bell Weather
because the honest gets like Legit exhausted. They need to play it more.
I think part of that he needs to figure out how to conserve some damn
energy, which he just plays at a thousand percent all the time, and
I think it makes it hard for him to play a lot of minutes.
But you'd much rather have like thirty thirty two minutes of try hard Yannis and
then another eight minutes of like Yannis kind of coasting and resting on the court.
Like Lebron is the best of this, right, like a thousand year
old Lebron can play forty eight minutes if he has to, because he'll play
really hard for twenty four and he'll just like intimidate teams for the other twenty
four Like the honest needs to learn how to do that. Chris is the
right bell Weather. Chris is the one where look at his minuts and determined
if but is fucking up or not. So it's so I haven't sworn on
a pot in a while. That was fun. But Chris can play as
much as ever, Like you don't see that much of a difference, like
he got super exhausted by the end of the Miami series. But in a
usual context, like Chris can play forty plus minutes pretty easily, Like if
he's not getting forty minutes on this team and the playoffs, I think that's
a problem like that or they're blowing everybody out, yes, but yeah,
yeah, sure, I mean like first round against whoever, then yeah,
whatever, if they're beating Atlanta by one thousand points, sure, but in
a close series, Chris should be at forty minutes because he's like his plus
minus for them has been super impactful. Like they usually when Chris and the
Honest, especially out there, they just destroy teams and then they just don't
play him enough. So and with Chris alone usually they can at least tread
water, like he's good enough for that. So they need to play Chris
a lot. That's going to be the big thing to look at, Like,
if Chris plays thirty five minutes and a close loss, that's really bad,
I would agree. I wanted to ask you about brook Lopez too,
Is he sort of I don't know, and maybe I said I phrase it
is under the radar swing piece, but it's I feel like it's not to
under the radar. He's thirty two coming off a monster defensive season, but
he didn't shoot the ball well from three for most of the year. Was
a forty percent the closing kick of the regular season almost twenty games, almost
at forty percent throughout the playoffs. Still shot thirty one point six percent for
the year on wide open threes, which was the worst mark among all players
who took at least one hundred and fifty. This is my roundabout way of
saying, I feel like there's a chance he could regress, and even if
his shooting is still as topsy turvy as it was last year, like,
it kind of puts the Bucks in a really awkward situation because they don't have
like all this front court depth now. And so, yeah, brook Lopez,
his defense is important. But if his offense is like any like,
if it's just less at all, like if he's just not shooting the ball,
well, it really does hamstring what they're doing. And so was that
at all a concern or do you view his closing kick is more representative of
his normal It's hard to say what's more representative. I think the most important
thing with brook Lopez this year and I think we know what we're getting in
defense, though I think he's going to be that guy for at least a
couple more years because quickness is so not a part of it. Although I
do think they should play him in more traditional sets too, or he has
to be a little bit quicker like I would like to see. There's a
lot there's like this notion out there that brook can only play the drop.
I don't think that's true. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't really have access to most of the numbers, but I think he's
like been fine ish when he's on the perimeter when he does end up out
there having a guard, So I don't think he's gotten like just brutally killed.
But his stance is like so low to the ground, so wide.
He's just And it's funny because like defense was not his strong suit where he
was in Brooklyn, like Havin, like he always got blocks for the most
part, but like it was sort of just a running joke that he wasn't
that great a defense, and then he goes like leaves Brooklyn and becomes like
he was almost was he all defensive this year? I even remember was all
defense? Yeah, so he was all defense, Like that's just absurd,
Yeah, it is. I think him and Bled were both second team in
Jannis was first team if I remember right, and the Bucks have been the
best defense last two years. But yeah, Brooks still going to be bringing
on that end. I think the other end, and I think what changed
for him, but it was basically the bubble where he shot really well,
like he was used more in general, and I think his shot went with
that. I think that's important for him. And I don't think he's really
talked about this or anything, but like he was like just being used a
lot in the bubble obviously, especially when your honest would go down. So
like he's scoring twenty points per game, maybe six of them are on threes,
fourteen of them are on like picking rolls. He'll just drive against some
big guys, Like he has this big looping hook shot kind of like Robin,
but not as it's not as much art as Robin Lopez was or is
he still plays, but like he can drive. He's a really good grifter.
I think this is an underrated brook Lopez thing. Like if he feels
that arm, it's like what Harden does, but a thousand times slower and
way funny. Like if you put that arm in brook Lopez his bread box,
he's shooting two free throws. And of course he can still post up.
I mean, like you mentioned as Brooklyn days that was this whole thing
he could post up. He'll still do that too, And like that's one
thing the Bucks need to just mash guys more with him when they when teams
go small, like they started to do it more in the bubble, and
I think kids shot bounce back as well. But like if you put like
a six eight guy like pick your you know, stretch like Mo Harkless.
If Mo Harkless is on Brook Lopez, that's two points for the bucks,
Like you can't unless you double. Like Brook is just way too good in
the post, way too big for a guy like that, and teams will
end up with guys like that on him, like because a lot of times
senters will Guardianis or they'll go small whatever you're doing, like they need to
take advantage of that. But I think one you can always get offense from
Brooke and mid ranging closer, and I think that's something they should just do
more, just to get more out of him. And I really do think
like being used like that more, just seeing some go in. I think
that helps his jumper and his three point shot too. So I just think
they need to make him more of a focal point. Now maybe that's a
little harder now that you also have Drew Holiday as a mouth to feed,
but I think just based on the huge drop off probably between the first four
and the rest of your guys, means they should be able to get him
a lot of touches. I think that'll help that number bounce up. I
don't think he needs to be like thirty nine percent, but if you can
get back to thirty five, especially on some of those deep ones, it
just opens up so much for the offense. And there is something to the
effect of taking the shots at all, like because he's so deep, like
that changes the geometry of the court and defense for Yannis to attack, and
so there's definitely value there. Speaking of Yannis, since we actually really haven't
talked about Yannis's game aside from him playing the five maybe more of this season,
is the biggest thing for this team still him developing counters that work in
the postseason against the defenses. And I thought he didn't figure it out last
year in the regular season, but looking how comfortable he was dribbling into wide
open pull up threes and then like even the spins and when he would pick
up his dribble and the fades that he was taking in the in between ranges,
I thought it would help even if it wasn't necessarily the most efficient shots.
It did not, And so like, is that just still you know,
I think people are always if Jannie ever hits like two threes in a
game, when he's two of three, there's the social media is gonna go
crazy. Like there's an element of truth too. He needs like one of
these things, I feel like, to hit for the bucks to ever actualize
this idea that they are going to be title favorites. What's funny is,
for the most part, it didn't that first quarter of game five if I
think or four, whichever the last game he played. I think it was
four, Like he dominated Miami for a better part of a quarter before we
ended up hurting the ankle and having to go out again, like he was
sort of getting there. And I do think like the threes are going to
be the one everyone talks about. I'm still a little hesitant. I would
love personally to see honest used a little bit more like Bam out of Baio
as like a play finisher and kind of like running slot of picking rolls and
dribble handoffs. Here's the issue, Like he's not Bam out of Bio,
He's honest. He's two time rating MVP. It's really freaking hard to tell
you honest, Like, hey, you know, play like this guy who
scores sixteen and it's like a really good player, like not to put down
Bam out of bio, but like you can't just go to an MVP and
be like, hey, we actually don't want the ball in your hands,
Like it's not really it's a hard position to do. I think you need
to have compromise. So like he's gonna handle the ball, he wants to
be more of a perimeter player. It's just not his most strong suit.
And I think the biggest things he can work on is improving that vision because
still even now, even in his more limited offensive game, he still usually
is getting doubled most of the time. Like even without a reliable jumper,
it's really hard for most guys to face guard him even knowing what he wants
to do. And he's just that good. So like work on that vision.
Like earlier in his career he would do so many like wrap around passes
with his mammoth arms, like reaching way out of bounds and just like slinging
it to a corner. I'd like to see more of that. But I
think even more than the three that post game is going to be important for
him, Like his fade away is looking pretty good. It has been looking
pretty good. He didn't go to it as much in the playoffs, but
I like, I would love to see a few times a game, like
get the body onto the elbows and let him work a little bit from there,
Like anything you can do really to get him closer to the rim.
I think it's going to be important because like that's that's the effective range,
right, Like the closer is to the rim, the more effective he is.
So the jumper is important, but like the turnaround fade away from fifteen
feet that's important too. And I do think like he just needs to get
one of those to a place where he's comfortable consistently doing it in the playoffs
and then all of a sudden it's like, Okay, we have no idea
how to guard this guy. I don't think he needs all of them.
If he has all of them, I mean, just full of the league,
Like, if you're honest, thirty seven percent from three and like forty
six percent from mid range, I don't know what the hell you're going to
do about him, especially with real players around him now. But yeah,
I do agree, like he doesn't he needs to get better too. I
think that's something that kind of gets lost among like Buddenholzer and Chris and formerly
Bled, so be honest wasn't good enough for most of the series either most
of the postseason either, So he does need to get that. And I
do hope that the whole theme of this Buck season, I've touched on it
already, is like trying stuff like if you honest is going to dunk a
bunch of course, like we want that, nobody nobody wants to tell you
honest, not the dunk, but like shoot a bunch of fadeaways, shoot
a bunch of threes. Like I will never get mad at him for doing
that in the regular season because it's like, if you can get more comfortable
with that, and it helps us in playoff time. But we lose a
game against the Pacers in February, I don't care. Good job Pacers,
Like congrats on the wind, like it doesn't matter that much to me.
I'm wondering, do you think maybe he'll be more willing to play without the
ball and he uses a screener in so far as he wasn't willing in the
first place. Now that you've gone from let's out to Drew Holiday, I
think it helps. Yeah, I certainly think it helps. I think that
was the whole thing, like when Chris Paul was the guy that was talked
about, right, Like, that's the other half of it that I didn't
touch on. That's a great call out. Like it's pretty hard to be
like, hey, we need the ball out of your hands for Eric Bledsoe.
And I think Chris needs to do more stuff too, And I think,
be honest, respects Chris enough that won't be a problem. But yeah,
like I think it's a lot easier to sell it when it's like Drew
Holiday get versus like Dante di Vincenzo or God forbid Pat Connatan, Like of
course God is going to be like no, Like I'd like give me the
ball, sorry, Pat, love you my best workout, buddy, but
like I'll take the ball in this situation. Thanks. I think the easiest
sell is Brent Forbes running it. I think that's the one that I'll get
him do it and he look, I was looking at up what you're talking
before. One point one seven points per Roman possession and he had one hundred
and fifteen of them last year. That's only the sixty seven percent tile,
but he had among everyone who used or finished at least one hundred P and
R possessions is the rollman. Only Mason Plumley, Christian Wood, Rudy Gobert,
and Jackson Hayes had were fouled more often and so like, there's also
the level of panic that Jannis creates if he's just going downhill at all.
And I do feel like you have the tools to make that happen in the
half court more where you don't have to rely on transition. And yeah,
having Chris Paul it might have been I might have actually liked that better for
this team. Maybe the opportunity cost would have been lower had they went that
route. But just to get Johannest moving off the ball, he might be
a little bit better. But I would think that Drew has to be good
enough to maybe try that. And if Jhannest's counters aren't maybe working, you
know, if his pull up three is at twenty nine percent and his you
know post ups are at like forty percent or just stuff that's low, I
would just like to see it more. There is something I don't think about
enough. It's like, you're right, two time MVP also just brainy defensive
player of the year, it's nothing to do with this, but like your
status is just implied there signed to Supermax, you stayed, like are you
willing to play without the ball? Right? Like it's I just think it's
a tough sell to be, like we need you to be super DeAndre Jordan
on offense sorry honest, like it's not gonna happen, Like I'm sorry,
it's I wouldn't tell that guy to do that. I wouldn't even say like
it needs to happen like that much like DeAndre Jordan type, but like if
it's so, if he's using you know what was it per game for him
last year was like one point eight rollman possessions or whatever it is, Like
can you double that? Like is that really that much more to do?
And I think they should be able to do that, Like he's never gonna
He's never gonna play like Bam all the time, I don't think and Bam
handles sometimes in transition, but like, yeah, he's not getting the honest
usage. But I think you need to get him to do it more.
But I think you also need to figure out other stuff. I wouldn't hate
to see, like more pick and rolls where your honest is the ball hand,
like have a shooter screen for him and pop do some weird stuff like
that's fine. I just really the one thing I don't want to see is
more like be honest at the top of the key, just like driving over
and over and over, because I just think he'll score a decent amount,
especially in the regular season against smaller teams. But it's just like you're not
learning anything new. I don't think he's gonna get much better at this point,
has been doing it so much, and I just think it's like a
waste of your possessions, right Like, if you have Chris Middleton and Brook
Lopez and Dante and Drew Holiday out there, if none of them are doing
anything for multiple possessions, that seems like a bad thing. Yeah, I'm
gonna try and blow through these last few questions since we only have fifteen minutes
remaining. Do you see the bucks they're they're so inflexible financially right now,
I get that, but do you sort of see them like, are are
they more emboldened to take another swing if the opportunity presents itself, because if
they have to go dollar for dollar matching with salaries, like you still have
Dante de Vincenzo, and there are salary fillers on this roster now, like
you know DJ Augustine's contract, Pat Connaughton's contract once they're eligible to be traded.
Even DJ Wilson makes four point six, So there's stuff that they could
do. Do you think that they're more emboldened to do it now if the
opportunities itself, or would they be less likely to go out and search for
that just for one how probably low scale of a move it would they're all
in play, would still be now or just two because they don't want to
give up like the equity of a Dante de Vincenzo, since they just don't
have first round picks. Ever, again that's obviously an exaggerations they actually will
have when they can use in twenty twenty one, although knowing the Bucks,
they'll probably end up trading it on Draft night. But I think Dante being
moved, and I think, just to answer the question in general, it's
really going to depend on the first X part of the season. Like I
really think this is going to be a big prove it part of the year
for Dante de Vincenzo, for DJ Wilson, for like a few of these
guys to where like a lot of people have mentioned DJ Wilson is one where
like he if they could trade him, they could get under the cap or
under the tax. That just barely like if they trade him for very little
salary, So that's one thing they could do. But Dante, I think
like he's gonna have the opportunity to prove he's like a really good fifth starter
with this group. And the only way I see him being traded by the
middle of the season is if it's just not working, which I would be
a little surprised. I think it will work good enough for them not trade
him. I think they're really high on him. He is, like,
like you mentioned, we jokingly refer to him aslone last year as the young
core, Like that's it, that's their young core they have, you know
some they have rookies now or whatever, but like last year, it was
really like Dante and then the honest was your young core, which adding the
honest makes it sound a little better at least, I don't. I don't
think most people consider him a prospect, But yeah, I don't think Dante
I'll move. You mentioned already the salary constraints, like if you could bring
in like a DeMar Derosi where his game is flawed, but you know what
he brings and he's really really good at what he does, you know,
then maybe, oh, we'd like to add that as the fifth guy.
It's impossible without trading one of the core for I'm like they're going to do
that for a move like that, So I think the most likely thing is
like DJ Wilson gets traded for X other uninspiring big wing who makes two million
less and like an Indiana second goes out Like That's probably the most thing I
would anticipate, But it all depends, Like if DJ Wilson looks like an
indispensable defender for them and he's actually playing good minutes, then they might just
do nothing except add a fifteenth guy. So I think the trade question is
all it depends on how the first half goes, and I'd lean toward nothing
big just because I don't think it's gonna look worth it to the Bucks.
What is Dante Divincenzo's swing skill right now to this team, where I think
it's probably you could say shooting, just because the three point percentage is like
lower than his confidence level would be in them but I'm also wondering, and
I guess I wouldn't pick this anymore. But it felt like he could log
some backup point guard minutes, and I guess they punted it on that by
adding Augustine, and I guess they could still do that, but then that
would ruin my dream of seeing Britten Forbes like play a bunch. Maybe he
could play those two together. So what is like? Because we know what
he could do defensively, Like he's just he's really good on defense, and
he's great at breaking up plays like from behind on offense. Though it does
seem like he needs to reach another level to be like optimal for this team.
What is that level? I think it is the shooting. It's the
obvious answer, but I think that's really it. I think based on looking
at their moves this off season, and I think they still think really highly
of him. And he started every game so far, which I actually didn't
know if he would, but he has and it's fine. I think they're
now looking at him in terms of creation, more of a tertiary creator than
a backup point guard kind of guy. I think they tried that, like
he started for Bled, so a couple of times. I think they prefer
to have him lower on the hierarchy of ball handlers on the court, Like
I think they want him behind Drew and Jannis and Chris or at least two
of those guys, And I think that's probably good. Like he's not he
doesn't have crazy vision, Like he can drive a little bit, but I
think he is more of a like let's get an action going and then kick
it to a Dante in an advantageous position and then he'll go from there.
I think that's where he's going to be as a playmaker, and that's fine
on this team. Like they don't need him to handle the ball a time,
it's the shooting. Like if he can shoot, I think this is
like one of the big swings for the Bucks this year. Brook is a
good one, but I think he does so much other stuff it's not as
crucial. If Dante hits like thirty eight thirty nine percent from three, this
team gets so much better and it's gonna be good. Looks, he's gonna
have the opportunity. It's pretty good for him. He certainly has the confidence.
Like you mentioned, he's taking some shots where I'm like, probably shouldn't
do that. One, Dante, but his confidence level in shooting off the
dribble is a lot high than my confidence level in him doing that, even
though the volume is still so low. I just don't even think it should
be. It just it feels high just seeing him do it. Ever,
when you're just like do please, Chris is out here. But yeah,
I think they just need to get him. I mean, you already mentioned
how much he loves those those off the dribble, Like just put him in
a spot where it's like you're in the corner or like like a little away
from the corner, like just shoot it, or drive to the rim,
don't dribble and then shoot. Please d't say, but I think he like
if he can hit a high volume, suddenly he is a really good fit
starter because you don't give up anything on defense playing in like you mentioned,
and he's not hurting your spacing. I think they do need that fit starter
to help their spacing at least at least they're like in a closing lineup.
They need a positive spacing player with the core for that's one of the big
questions of the years. Ken Dante de Vincenzo be that. I hope so
I don't think I think he can. It's one of those where, like
I'm not I wouldn't bet money on it right now, but I think if
he does, then you feel really comfortable about your closing group. And what
is so is the closing group. It's are you just penciling in the four
of Brooke, Jannis, Middleton, Drew and then X or do you think
that spot is going to be Dante's to lose? I would say X for
now. I think really like the probably the highest flour players DJ Augustine,
just because I mean, we know he's gonna get singled out a little bit
on defense. Again, I think they can cover for him enough. And
if he's gonna be hitting, I don't know the number, but if he's
like forty plus percent on catching shoot, which I think he does shoot pretty
well from those on those looks, that's really what you need, I think
most from that spot. I mean, we'll see what Brooke does. Maybe
they can afford to go downte no matter what. If Brooke is hitting a
lot of threes. Again, I wouldn't bet on that, but I just
think I think the core four is too good to not play one of them
in ninety nine percent of closing scenarios. I know there's gonna be some matchups,
but like, I don't know. I think most of the best teams
are on the league are all going to play one semish traditional big guy.
I think there's always going to be a spot for Brook Lopez. He just
adds too much to bench him for. Like he's like even if you're there
playing, some teams are playing smaller. Uh you know, if it was
the Rockets version, which doesn't exist anymore, but let's use the Rockets,
Like if they've Christian Wood at the five, that's not going to play uh
for CLOBs off the floor. So like he's he's like a little he's close
to match up proof. I would say, yeah, I think I think
he's just too good. I think he can do more perimeter stuff on D
than he has done. But I just think, like if you're sitting him
for like Bryn Forbes because you want more spacing, I just think you're overthinking
the game at that. That's obviously the move tie that is how many how
many basketball Fantasy basketball leagues have you drafted Bryan Forbes? And like something's off.
No, I don't even use fantasy I don't do fantasy basketball anymore,
as I'm lame like that. But Britan Forbes, I just I value guys
that can hit consistently like pull up three pointers, and he can, and
I know his defense is a problem, but like, I don't think it
will be Milwaukee. I would not bench him, or I would not bench
Broke for him, although I am a sucker for Yannis at the five,
So if you're gonna go Yannis at the five, then yeah, put brim
Forbes in there. But to your part out Augustine two, is they criticize
the shooting. Last year, he still shot forty one point six percent on
catching shoot threes. It was twenty nine point five on pull up threes,
and he took one hundred and twelve pull up threes eighty nine catch and shoot
threes. I wouldn't expect that just to flip. I would expect it to
flip a bunch to where he's just gonna take a lot more catch and shoots,
and that's where he's gonna be valuable. And if you're not worried about
his defense, then he becomes infinitely more playable. But I could see,
like I think it's gonna be kind of tough for them to pick between Forbes
and Augustine. I think really it comes down to, like Augustine's gonna be
the better ball handler. I think if Forbes is looking like a significantly better
shooter off movement and off catch, then maybe you look at him as well.
But I do think I don't know if I want to say Dante's to
lose, but I think he's gonna have pole position being the opening starter,
and if he's hitting those threes, then I think it's pretty obviously going to
be him. Is there a quirky lineup you're hoping they roll out this season?
I want to see like the maximum spacing Yannis lineup, so then he
was talking like Yannis at the five, Chris at the four, and then
like maybe Augustine Drew Forbes. I think that would be really fun, Like
you kind of need some defense out there with Drew just if you're gonna play
Augustine and Forbes at the same time. And they might never use that group,
but I do think like it would probably just wreck teams, Like I
mean, Chris and Drew ball handling, Yannis rolling into the ram and ball
handling some too, and Augustine and Forbes kind of like just orbiting and looking
for space, like it'd be really hard to guard that team. Well,
that was my exact lineup except oh nice, except I had Dante in for
Augustine. Oh yeah, and that and if Dante is hitting his threes then
then that's one. That lineup is just gonna go crazy at that point.
So what are what are your projects? What are your projections for where this
team lands in the East and how many wins they end up getting In the
regular season, their win total was at a fifty point five, which I
can't think in terms of seventy two games that's the equivalent of fifty eight in
a normal season. Where would you have them end up? So it's fifty
eight point five? Is the over under? Yeah, okay, I'd probably
say under just under and a and a that's the I know, that's the
scaled up to eight. They were the only team, by the way,
when I looked at this for this season that had a win total of fifty
or higher like everyone else. I think the highest I saw it was forty
eight or forty seven, and they were just comfortably above And I was like,
I guess the oddsmakers really like the Bucks offseason that they're still that high.
I know they just won at like a sixty plus win pace, but
I was just surprised to see it was that high. I thought it'd be
a little bit lower under the circumstances. I think all the oddsmakers are in
on them as such a good regular season team, and I think like just
the East is not, even though there's some threatening teams now, like especially
the Bucks Division, it's just so bad and it's just like so many wins
you feel like you can pencil in, Like I don't know how many times
they play these teams in the new schedule, but like you have so many
games against the Calves, so many games against the Pistons, even the Pacers,
who were like good but just clearly not as good. Like it's it's
it's I think that goes into a lot of it. But I'm gonna say
under I just think they're gonna have some stinkers. Probably they're gonna have some
growing pains. They're still getting drew acclimated. Like again, I think he
had like five points in their first game, and it's like one of those
where would you love to see him play well off the jump? Yeah,
but I think it is going to be like learning how he fits and maybe
how to use him in some lineups where it's true and four bench guys to
get him more reps and more touches, just to get him more comfortable.
But he needs to learn how to play with Chris and the honest think it
will take a little bit of time. But I don't think their defense is
probably gonna be a little bit worse, especially coming off the bench. I
think their bench defense outside of Tory Craig and sort of Pet but really just
Tory Craig is significantly worse. So they'll probably cost him a couple of games.
But again, it's like they might lose like more to the Blazers than
they would have in their regular season. But I do think it will lead
to them having a better postseason, I hope at least, and that's always
the goal. So if they come in at like a fifty five win pace
instead of sixty three, but they're better equipped for the playoffs, it's a
trade every Bucks final make, so I will take the under, but it
wouldn't surprise me. I mean, they could click and still win sixty They're
a really good team. I'll take the slight under Yeah, and I feel
like they could be at a fifty three win pace and still finish first in
the East. Just looking at it, I feel like Philly and Real Clint
are my two biggest wild cards there. Boston with Kemba's knee injury, losing
Hayward, that's I don't think we're talking enough about how dicey they are.
But we'll see what looking rough in the preseason two. Although I haven't watched
Yeah, so that's like a team there's Indie, which is solid, but
it's like it's indie. I don't really know where to place them within that.
So I think they're still comfortably or semi comfortably going to be number one
Miami looms, but I feel like they're a little bit less dynamic than they
were towards the nlast season. After they you lose Jay Crowder. You just
can't play Iggy at the four really, so I don't like, are you
going with dual Biggs down the stretch? So I would still have them in
first, I just have no read on what type of win totals they're gonna
have. I picked the under two, but I just can't see them given
the makeup of this roster, and now that they just understand, I think
what the larger goal is, not that they didn't before, but like you're
sort of like veterans at this now, the regular season doesn't mean as much,
and so I'm just curious whether there's a d emphasis on trying to pick
up as many winds as possible. Yeah, I think Philly is the one
I would most expect to supersede them for number one. I just think that
roster is finally really good and it's gonna be really well suited around Joel and
Ben, and I think like they were really good with those two and that
weirdo stars lineup with JJ Reddick a while ago. I think they might get
back there. I think Brooklyn's going to be good at times, but they're
gonna rest Katie and Kyrie a lot, so that probably is going to cost
them some games. So yeah, I would see anywhere from first through third.
I would most comfortably bet one or two. But even if they're third
again, like I'm not, I'm not losing sleep. Like they're gonna have
to beat good teams in this East either way, So get ready for the
playoffs, and that's that's the goal is there anything else you wanted to talk
about that we didn't cover or that I did not pick your brain? How
about I mean the big thing for the Bucks this year. I do think
it's gonna be like figuring out who are your seven to eight guys who you
know you can ride with in a playoff series. Like I think that's gonna
be the most interesting thing for me, aside from like hoping and praying for
Bud doing less Bud stuff, which we'll see. No one has any idea.
I do think he'll stick around for this year at least, but we'd
love to see we need to see different kinds of defense. The other thing
like let him switch more. Hopefully we sit during the regular season. But
my number one thing is going to be, like, you know, the
core four is going to be good. You continuously pencil and Dante probably is
the fifth really good guy. You need two to three more guys so you
can trust on both ends at least a little bit. So it's gonna be
like, can DJ Augustine live on defense if he gets hunted? Like how
is Brent Forbes doing on that day? Does Bobby Port has become somewhat less
of a black hole to where you can play him in fifteen minutes and not
lose the game in those fifteen minutes. So that's gonna be the big thing
is like we need to figure out the bus, need to figure out who
are the guys that you can play in playoff series and hopefully that the answer
for Bud isn't like everybody just play them all. That's that's the that's the
fear. Yeah, the bugs are still going to go fourteen deep this season
somehow tanasis takeover. Ty. Can you let everybody know where they can follow
your work please? At Tywindish on Twitter? Did you ask where people can
follow me? Yeah? My ear pod, my earbud fell out, totally
guessed. Let's go at Tywindosh on Twitter, TI U n d H.
That's where I post pretty much everything I do. But the main thing for
sure is the euro Step podcast. That's a honest reference. So g y
R O Step on all podcast platforms we're putting out, we always say one
a week and then we end up getting excited and doing another one, so
like one point five ish episodes a week. But definitely can subscribe to that
for all the great bucks content, and of course you gotta subscribe to Hodwood
Knocks for all the great every team's content. I wanted to say this.
I know we're way over and I'm sorry. I appreciate, Oh what I
said. I don't apologize. I'm the one that's people common during your time.
That's true, that's true. I really appreciate your focus on the granular
aspects of every team, like I think it really shines to I think it's
awesome. Like I listen to the kas pod with Row and I listen to
the Spurs pod and it's like you're actually like in depth talking about the real
stuff on these teams. I think people appreciate that. So I just wanted
to shout out your pod. On your pod, it's pretty useless. People
are already here, but I'm doing what I can. You're gonna make me
lush. I appreciate the kind words. Don't deserve them. After not realizing
Cam Reynolds was no longer on the Bucks though, So I think that's the
that's the failure we're taking away from this. Guys, follow Tie on Twitter
seriously if you're not already, and I can back up what he said about
his podcast, subscribe to it. They're really good. They're great at posting
emergency pods and post game pods during the playoffs. Those were really useful as
someone who wasn't necessarily catching every game at one point before the heat series,
so those are really useful. Subscribe there, and as he mentioned, follow
them on Twitter. Ty. I think you know at this point I'm gonna
be bothering the hell out of you again at some point, but thank you
again for giving me so much of your time. I always loved talking hoops
with you. I appreciate it. Same to you man. Looking forward to
being bothered soon in the near future. Amazon, welcome back. Thank you
for coming on the Hardwood Knox podcast. It's been I don't know since last
time you came on. I think you've been on twice and four, but
it's definitely been many minutes. How are you doing good? I mean,
it's been a year, but it's been a year for literally everyone and making
it. Can't complain too much, but uh yeah, I mean it's it's
I'm I'm currently enjoying some some southern weather even though I live in Chicago,
so I am I've been able to escape being quarantining in a pandemic in one
of the cold cities and in North America or in America. So all good.
I'm ready for a new season, NBA season to start. Yeah,
let's let's talk some Pelicans. I'm gonna start. This is more reflective than
anything, but I think I'm still shocked at the hall they got for Drew
Holiday. And I know that Jannis resigning with the Bucks like changes the context
of some of those picks and swaps, but to have control of four draft
picks essentially that far out and like you know, even sort of the little
stuff where it's like they got George Hill in that deal they eventually moved like
he ends up in Okay, see, but like that was just part of
looking from Alwaukee's perspectives, Like you couldn't even like there was a way to
structure that deal money wise without having George Hill in it, Like you couldn't
figure that out. So the fact that it was just such a massive haul.
I know New Orleans had leverage, but were you surprised by what they
were ultily were able to get for Drew? So yes, and no,
I think I was always more on the optimistic side of the discussion around what
what your Holiday's market value was in the number of teams who might be interested,
because really all it takes is two teams get into a bidding war.
I mean I think we you know that that was a common topic of discussion
for Anthony Davis as well. A different scale of course, but you know,
whether your market is ten teams or two teams, as long as your
market square than one, you can create some sort of if you if you're
good, like we always gave a Griffin age, you can create a bidding
war sort. So we don't know what's hot about. I mean, we
kind of heard some some stuff after the fact about the other teams that were
interested in and we're willing to pay out, but there were when push came
to the show, there was no one, no, no team that was
going to be able to offer that. No team really was as desperate.
I guess is the right way to frame it than the bucks. And that's
what I feel like that that's my was my one takeaway with both the the
Ad Drew deals is that like, is grip praise on desperation better than any
better than a lot a lot of gms in the in the league. And
the thing is, like you can make the argument with the Anty Davis trade
that when based on everything eighty said, everything was back channel about the Lakers,
and eighty wanted to be there, that the Lakers were kind of bidding
against themselves and the level of what they were willing to offer, and Griff
still got a pretty nice haul things considered. And then and then the same
things can be said for Drew Holiday and said, you know, there was
a lot of messaging about, well, the Heats aren't going to part with
Arrow, the Nuggets aren't gonna part with Michael Porter Junior. Starry I called
the magat Porter Junior in our last Pelican podcast, So I feel like I've
got to stick with that. And then you've got and then you had the
Nets. Who you know, if the centerpieces is LeVert, I mean,
that's fine, But there was a lot of talk about, well, if
it's going to be the Nets, if they're going to be the winner,
here is do you have to get a third team involved to get the right
group grouping of players and picks that the Pelicans would want. And so there
was nothing that was rumored up in the days and hours up into the trade
that seemed anywhere close to what the Pelicans got. And so you know.
That's why I say, you know, it's Simulsannels surprised me didn't because I
always thought that Drew was going to get a nice return given the limited other
options of Drew Holiday's ability that were available this offseason, but still it didn't.
It's it's more than was rumored in the days beforehand. So it was
interesting. Yeah, it was just because I think the like part of the
conversation was can the Nuggets figure out a way to get the deal done without
including Michael Porter Jr. Like just as a framework for it. And then
you see what the Pelicans actually ended up getting for Drew Holiday and it's like,
well, holy shit, Like that clearly was never gonna happen if Michael
Porter Junior was not on the table. So exactly what do you think of
The move that surprised me was the Steven Adams move and the subsequent extension.
I really wanted him, and I think that this was probably like a prevailing
national perspective. Wanted to see a center who could space the floor play next
to Zion, but Zion didn't play with that type of center last year,
and like some of those minutes ended up being just fine. What do you
think of the every sort of every element of the Steven Adams extension excuse me,
acquisition, like the price they paid and then they extent him and then
just his his general fit next to Zion and the rest of the team.
Yeah, yeah, And so I think so it's easy to say, and
I was, I'm one of them to say that, you know, you
want us floor space or next Dezion, Like, yes, you do,
but also you need a lot from that center position in general, and you
have to make unless you're getting a guy like Karl Anthony Towns, which you
know would probably be a dream fit next to Zion, You're you're you're gonna
have to give on something. So as a defense, is it rebounding?
Is a three? Is a three point shooting from that from that position?
And so I think Steven Adams checks literally every other box that Griff had for
this for the center next design except for shooting. And so I'll take it.
I mean, I think the acquisition costs for Steven Adams a player was
a little steep. I think the costs for Steven Adams for what he is
and what he what they want him to be off the floor, which the
shows that the extension they gave him from the extra two years, which after
that Gobert extension, I'm very much okay with thanks Steven Adams seventeen a year
for a couple more years. Who's one of the one of those guys like
Drew where you say, wait, he's he's he's how old I thought,
and like you think that he was like three or four years older than that,
and so like I feel, I feel good about it overall. And
so like Steve, Steven Adams is going to help the Pelicans defense and rebounding,
starting fast breaks, which I know this this team is probably gonna run
quite like they did under Alvin Gentry, but they're still going to want to
push the pace off you know, off of the shots. And he's a
great guy to start that break and kick it out to laws or with blood
so and and and he's a fantastic screen setter. And I think that'll do
a lot to help the Pelicans with getting getting guys free, like you know,
whether it's uh b I or Jaja Reddick, guys like that. And
also I think the part that's that's most under appreciated nationally is it off the
off the floor stuff and relative to what the Pelicans needed for so long,
and so you know, I'm always in the mind no matter no matter what
where you are in your development cycle, you need that's you can't just bload
up a young team without having any sets on the roster and just say well,
some of whom will cannounce, some of them won't. Like you need
the veteran presence in the locker room, and not just that, you need
vocal, vocal guys, and the Pelicans have not had that. They've had
great leaders and Drew Holiday, dear Cavers, uh you know, but they're
soft spoken guys. And I think JJ Reddick was the first guy who really
will well we'll talk a lot throughout some of those other guys, and it
is not just Adams but also Blood, so mostly more so Adams and Blood,
but they added guys who are gonna hold other players accountable, like if
you're Jackson Hayes or Zion in practice, like good luck going up against Steven
Adams, Like he's gonna make you. He's gonna make you fight every single
minute. And so I just think that he brings a lot to this team,
both on and off the floor, that maybe isn't captured by you know
by analytics or stats, and so as much of an analytics guy as I
am, like, I see the value on that, and so I love
I love the addition. I think the fit with next to Zion is not
perfect, but better than aut of people may be giving credit for. Yeah,
and look, they've cornered the market on front court players on whose arms
you can do pull ups on. So that's between him and Zion. So
that's always fun and no doubt. And look, I think the fact that
he helps defensively is like maybe you could just figure out the like any awkwardness
on offense later, just because you know he does. People seem so down
on him defensively, and I know he's not. Like there's this idea of
you need to be matchup proof at the five. I understand he's not matchup
proof, but like every year and Oksey basically opponents got to the rim just
substantially last. When he's on the court, his boxing out is gonna help
their defensive reboundy like you would think it makes it easier for get guards to
grab boards and just get out and go, and so I think that land
are two great guards to do that too, So it's hit right, and
the other thing is like he only turned twenty seven in July, so it's
not like he's super ancient. And again I wasn't crazy about the decision to
get him with the extension, but he's only twenty seven, and he helps
your defense, and like you said, the off court stuff that'll clearly matter.
So I warmed on it, where like I've soured on Tristan Thompson in
Boston the more I think about it, I've warmed on Steven Adam more in
New Orleans the more I think about it. Yeah, And one other piece
of this I think is important is that it's who knows if we've finishes out
that contract New Orange, right, I expect him to be unless like to
fit what's awful. I expect him to be in New Orleans all the season,
all of next season, So year three, that becomes a very movable
salary. And you can use Steven Adams plus a couple of picks you have
from the lakers of books to really make a move and get someone else because
and if there's anything we know about small markets like New Orleans, it's you're
only going to get a marquee free agent if you're a legit title contender.
Otherwise you've got to either draft or trade for those guys, and so you've
got to put yourself in a position to do that. And I think you
know that last year of Steven Adams deal and combination with some of the picks,
you can set yourself up for success as you can build this team.
Are the spacing concerns fair for this team? Though I had mentioned something on
Twitter about it. I think it was like a few days ago and I
got a few Pelicans fans I mentioned saying, you know, they were they've
shot the ball well from three last year, and they were. They were
nineteen three point of tenth three. I think they were fifth and three point
acentage. But a lot of that percentage, excuse me, A lot of
that just feels like a perfect storm of things that could not happen this year,
Like one you traded, you exchanged Drew Holiday for Eric Blaze, Like
that's just the spacing downgrade. Lonzo had a career year from deep is he
going to replicate that? I believe in brandon Ingram's jump, but like what
if he declines at all? And you're also the thing that I don't think
is being talked enough about is you know, Zion shot his percentage was fine
from three, but he wasn't taking a bunch of them. And now he's
going to be on the court, hopefully just a lot more. And so
I just feel like it puts more pressure on them to find lineups where they
can have you know, three shooters on the court at once, and just
the way their front court is set up, I think that makes it a
little bit difficult. And even with some of their guards, you know,
having bledso there and then again, what happens if Lonzo drops off a little
bit. Yeah, I think you make a ton of fair points. I
was I was doing the season preview pod for the Pells with with Nate Duncan
the other day, and one of the things that he said that stuck with
me was, you know, statistically speaking, the difference in three point shooting
between Eric Bloods Andrew Holiday is not that significant. However, teams give a
shit when Drew spots up. Teams generally don't when Bloods does. And that
that is what spacing is, right, It's it's how well you can you
know, force defenders to make tough decisions. And so I think that's certainly
a fair point with bloods so the drew to blood so trade off. And
then I agree with the other points around you know, Alonzo is he is
that I think with Alonzo and b I like he said, I think the
shot sustainable. But is the jump in percentage that we saw, uh,
you know from one year to the next stable, I don't know. And
then of course Zion, you're you're exactly right, We're But I'd say the
other point with with with well Zion is it's not like the Peasons. We're
placing him with dead eye shooters when you know, and besides, Melly Melody
was a spacer. And but besides that, I mean like unless they were
talking about adding a guarden for for the position that a Zion was playing,
they didn't. They didn't always replace him with spacing. And so but that
said, I mean, I think, yeah, it's it would be a
fool a foolish thing to say if you were going to say the Pelicans are
going to finish top ten and three point shooting again this year. However,
I don't think they're I don't think it's as much of a problem as a
lot of a lot of people may think. The Steven adds point au I
made. I think is also you know, around his ability to create uh
you know, help with spacing, with his screening ability, I think matters
a lot, and I think he's going to help more than Favors did last
year in that regard. I expect this seem to be like around league average
in three point percentage. And I mean it would be silly for me to
say, like between fifties and twenties, because like the with most of these
stats, you know, with various teams in the league, anything between ten
and twenty is separated by not not much. You know, it's it's a
rounding Yeah, it's a rounding error. So like, I think they'll be
I don't think they're gonna be terrible. So like I think they'll be around
the gatherers, and I think there's going to be times where you see the
spacing becomes a problem against good teams. But I think that you know,
in the long run, they'll they'll figure it out, like you know,
not maybe not this season, but I don't think that they're trying to solve
every single problem they're going to have this season. So I'm so excited to
watch, like Zion this this year, just to have hopefully a full year
of Zion. I will preface this, as I've said on every pod,
I basically did a preseason basketball black out because I didn't want it to color
the way I was writing about my my player rankings that I was doing at
the time, since the rankings weren't based on it. But from like watching
a few clips of him, it seems like he looks like really good.
I'm just curious to your thoughts as to how he's looked during the preseason,
what you've liked most, anything that's just stood out. So a couple of
things. One is the way that Stan's already clearly trying to get him involved
off off the ball and moving. And this is certainly something that happened with
Alvin Gentry as well, but there it's clearly a focus they're they're making him.
You know, he's more than just a guy who's going to catch the
ball in the post and his bully people he's going to It's just it's so
amazing to see someone with his frame so quick, just like a dribble,
and can acrobatically get around people and get to the room and score. He
covers so much distance, so it's so easily and effortless play seems like.
But the other the other thing that I think is most encouraging to me is
seeing his effort on defense, even and I tend to take almost nothing from
preseason besides don't get hurt. But that said, I think effort matters,
especially with the way this team played in the bubble last year. They look
so lethargic, they look like they didn't give a shit, and so seeing
seeing Zion clearly trying, and you know, he looked better and he's not
good yet obviously, but I think it's uh, you know, promising for
me to see him making those types of strides on the defensive end from where
he was last year, which was just, you know, objectively terrible.
So so that that's where I'm looking for it, to see what he can
do, because you know, he can't be as good as he is offensively.
He can't be here at least this world class, you know, the
top five guy in the league without being at least competent on or you know,
average to above average on the defensive end. I mean, I think
he'd be hard pressed to make that argument for anyone. James Hardens gets the
closest you can go. But even even he has gotten a bad rap on
defense in certain cases. I mean, there's been years where he hasn't tried,
but when he does try, he's possible. And so I really want
to see Zion take a step forward on defensive end this year. I wonder
if it helps him that it feels like stan Van Gundee's teams have always just
overachieved on defense. Where you look at like some of those Pistons squads that
he had, I felt like they could have just been a lot worse and
he wasn't given like this premier defensive talent. And so I'm just wondering if
having stand van Gundy, he ends up help which he did to himself though
right yeah, Detroit, Yeah that's true too. That's that's not pointed out
nearly enough. So I'm wondering if that ends up helping Zion. My other
question for him was, though, do you see them ever getting to a
point and whether or not that's the season where Zion might be initiating some of
the offense rather than doing like a lot of the you know, not just
off ball stuff, or like they're not counting on him to like get them
into their sets in a half quarter, running a ton of pick and rolls.
Do you see him ever getting to that point? Yeah, I think
they'll give him chances, I mean by by for no other reason, and
they kind of they they need to with this group they currently have, like
I mean, blood Thoe is your point guard in a traditional half court sense.
But they don't they don't have a guy that they're always going to go
to, you know, who's going to dominate the ball in terms of being
able to create and score. I mean Ingram. They're going to give him
more chances, but he's still he's when you put the ball in his hands,
it's kind of an isolation and look for his shot. Facilitating and and
so. But I'm sure us and then they're gonn took for him to improve
on this year as well. Then Lonzo, they would love for him and
improving his game in that regard, but he's been you know, all worsers
to the paint for most of his career, so he's usually more of like
a facilitator than uh, you know, maybe catch a pass and then or
another one versus you know, actually driving. So they need playmaking. And
so unless you think Nikhil, I was gonna Walkers gonna makes this huge jump
this year. They need it, and I think you could you could do
much worse than trying to put more of that onto Zion and seeing what happens,
right, I mean, so travel by fire. I mean, let
these guys as long as you're not giving them putting them pistons the where they're
going to develop that habits. I mean, set him up for success and
push the envelope. See what these guys can do. And and Zion certainly
no different. Yeah, it seems just like he's already making good decisions when
he's like going downhill, and so just the idea of like he's like basically
a tornado with dancers feet until the idea of just getting him in more positions
where he's going to be able to like get downhill and force him I guess,
yeah, you have to make more decisions were complicated as in those situations.
I would just like to see it because that does you know, I
think if he's able to do that, that just has such a huge pack
on a huge impact on the way that they're able to run their offense.
Then yeah, yep. So for brandon Ingram we kind of already touched on
this that we both just I think that he's closer to as normal than not.
When looking at last season, he wasn't like taking these crazy off the
dribble threes. It was just a matter of really improving like his set percentage.
He's always felt like, you know, dating back to his time of
the Lakers, I felt like he always was able to get to his spots.
It just felt like a lot of those shots were like finally falling last
year. There's the you know, the free throw percentage jump was huge,
but they're also like their free throws, and so like if you can shoot
threes, like, why can't you improve your your free throws? So like,
what are you like looking for him looking for from him this season.
Is it a matter of just being better on defense because he was so bad,
or is there something to the idea that hey, maybe now that you
have Zion full time that it could end up impacting Ingram's influence over the offense.
It's gonna sound a little similar to Zion because I defense is where I'm
looking first. Because uh, and I think we'll get to this as well.
The Pelicans don't exactly have a ton of depth on the wing, which
is which is I'm a broken record over the last decade of Pelicans basketball because
that's always been a problem. And the last time they gave a big money
contract to a wing with Solomon Hill. So it probably tells you all you
needs to know there. But but but yeah, I mean, so defense
matters. Uh, He's he was kind of like that, the lack of
effort on the defensive end. He was during the bubble. He was certainly
a centerpiece to that. He does well in one on one match of situations
a lot of times. I mean, I think the example of people who
defending room defense will point to a lot is he. He did really well
get for Zinga's last year. I don't know how to explain it, but
he defended him very well. And he does guys that are similar to him
and that they're not super quick and but and but he he can use his
length to really disrupt and cause problems. I think he can do that in
nicely some situations. But he kind of loses loses people when off the ball.
His focus can can sometimes slip, and he's not he's not the super
freak athlete type guy. He's just you know, he's he he kind of
goes to the motions sometimes, so so I think that's that's the area.
But I think I think if he gets the right coaching, if he gets
put in, you know, if Stan can really make an impact on him.
He's got the he's got the wingspan, he's got the ability to to
be good, and so so we'll see if if that can start to the
switch can start to flip on that end. But but really, yeah,
I think I agree with your assessment at him offensively and his his improvement that
I think the reason I'm buying him so much is that it wasn't like he
just had some random erratic jump in one area. It must except for maybe
three point shooting, but I think even there, he he showed enough to
think that that that and improvement in three point shooting is sustainable, and he's
certainly good enough to warrant teams paying attention to him when he spots up.
But he he really improves this game across the board statistically on both volume and
efficiency, and so I'm looking for him to continue to, you know,
to try to improve his ability to create for others as well putting the ball
in his hands, running him at some point forward sets and seeing what he
can do there. But but but but yeah, I mean I think I'm
looking forward to h to an improved season from him, you know, hopefully
on both ends. Yeah. And the other thing too, is like,
during his latter two seasons in LA, like he was basically close to the
version of the player that he became in New Orleans before his injuries, where
he was shooting like, okay volume, it wasn't like his higher volume,
but he was hitting his threes. And so that's what really made me kind
of buy into it too. Is like, if he's had like longer stretches
of more efficient offense, higher volume offense before it's just injuries railed it.
It was like, oh, this is the product of what happens when he's
healthy for the entire season. This is the question I've been burning to ask
you though, As you know, before the start of the pod Lonzo Ball.
What makes him so divisive not just in general, but amongst the Pelicans
fan base specifically. I'll see you having like like they'll come across my TL
and just ram You're having like heated debates with all these different people about Lonzo
Ball. And I know sham it will have them too, and it just
it fascinates me because his play style is confusing to me, and I don't
know how I view him long term. I don't necessarily like him for this
team. It feels like they need someone who could do more than just be
this like guy who ferries them into these you know, open floor transition opportunities.
They need like more of an actual like half court point guard. But
can you explain to me, like where this what's the root of this division
in New Orleans. Look, the fact of the matter is that when the
Anthonyavis strait happened, there are a lot of a lot of Los Angeles fans
who love the young guys, and some of them came over to support the
Pelicans, which is which is great. But at the same time, there
are some maybe dissenting opinions around around the abilities of those Lakers players. And
I will be the first to say that I sorely underestimated Brandon Ingram and I
think a lot of I mean a lot of people. Naturally, I'm not
saying I was. I was not alone on the silin like a lot of
people were like, M, I don't know about the I and he proved
everyone wrong, most of the players the hero ward. I mean, the
difference with with Lonzo is it's about it's not about his abilities as much as
it was what he does well. And so I you know, I've been
pretty adamant over the last you know, a few months, a year even
really about what I think Lonzo is and what do I think he's not,
And a lot of his the fan base that supports him so strongly this I
think, vehemently disagrees with that assessment. So you know, I'm of the
opinion based on what I've seen. You know, he doesn't he doesn't get
into the paint. When he does, he often turns the ball over.
He's you know, he doesn't like to get foul. He's not a good
free throw shooter. He doesn't do a lot of the things even close to
passable that a point guard should should be able to do. And so and
when you're that bad at some of those things, you rarely see players at
that, I get go to good. Maybe he can get to blow average
or even average and some of those things, which would be fantastic, but
he's I don't never expect him to be good or at penetrating and driving and
kicking or driving and getting getting drawing fouls, going to free to line things
like that. What I do think he's really good at is that same type
of point guard responsibilities in transition. He's great at at, you know,
catching outlets and looking up floor immediately and creating mismatches. He's and obviously Zion
exacerbates that ability. I mean it's a perfect pairing and transition those two.
He's great at you know catching uh, you know, catching a path from
a point guard and immediately looking and finding the right next path to make.
He's shown that he can really improve his three point shooting ability. He's worked
with Fred Bentsen Telloking assistant coach extensively there and the results are pretty pretty apparent.
So he's doing He does a lot of good things. They're just not
I just don't seem with the point guard and that that creates a lot of
device in this amongst some some fans. But I think he's a very interesting
case man. We find it out today that he's not going to be They're
not going to reach an extent him before risktick the creators the next summer,
which comes as no surprise to most people who are following the team closely.
But but I think it's going to be very interesting year for Lonzo, and
I don't I mean, I think he helps the team a lot. I
think if New Orleans gets a sense that they're gonna he's gonna cost much more
than they're willing to give him, then they may look look at other options.
But again, I think if he if he's in the right role,
which is how standing Gunn he has talked about him, then he can be
successful. The question is is he worth what he might get on the open
market? Yeah, And look, I would say one young players can get
better. But if you're looking at Martel Faults getting fifty million dollars and knowing
that lawns Ball right now is a better player, it seems like not signing
him to an extension was a good decision for both player and team at this
point because he's clearly gonna get more money in the market. And I was
really high on him for most of last year. And I'm not trying to
bring this all back to rankings, but I had him so high when I
did the NBA one hundred rankings basically solo at the end of the first regular
season before the bubble and then when I was watching him in the bubble and
then digging into it for the latest version that I did, and we also
had like a larger panel the concept. He dropped more so than any like
any single player from like the end of last season until now. So like
it wasn't that one stretch that swayed me. But when I went to go
watch him more, I do really like what he can do in the open
floor. I actually I feel like he can be like he gives him so
many options on defense as well that could help them, I think long term.
But I just don't you mentioned it already, and I don't want to
like just be labor that point. But they need him, I don't.
I don't see the player that they need in the half cord like he looks,
so I don't know if it's uncomfortable or indecisive when he gets into the
lane and he he shot thirty three point nine percent on drives last year,
and so like his volume is is one thing where it's like he still doesn't
necessarily see him like he wants to be super aggressive with shooting, but like
to have that level of non finishing from your point guard when he's inside the
arc, and like, you know, trying to break down defenses is just
it feels like it's going to be a huge conundrum for them. And I
don't want to bring everything back to the money, but you know, you've
already paid brandon Ingram, Like it gets to a point where now you're just
reinvesting in all these young players before you're necessarily a fully finished product. And
you have Josh Hart to think of two, who's really important to this team,
And so I feel like he just is going to end up being in
a lot of trade rumors this year. Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you
brought apart because he the guy who I feel like is maybe doesn't get the
respect he deserves nationally for what what he what he does. And so I'm
not saying that he's they're definitely going to be even starting to hard at any
point in his career. I sure hope you will. But he's what he
can do defensively, rebounding, shooting, and the hustle I think is most
it's most important, or not most important, but it's one of the things
that I think is maybe most underappreciated with him. And he's he's one hundred
ten percent every single end of the game, and it is really inspiring to
see and I think every team could use a player like him, and so
I am I'm still very curious to see if we if something breaks while we're
recording about whether or not the Pelicans will agree to an extent with him.
I honestly have no clue. I expected they wouldn't with Londo for all the
reasons that you and I both discussed about how far apart they both sides would
be. But yeah, well I think there's uh, you know, there's
more of a chance they can agree, especially now if they locked in Steven
Adams, and it seems like they've got a direction around whether or not they
think they'll be they'll want to be a cap team or a you know,
or over the cap team, but who knows. Well, I guess we'll
see. Yeah, And you don't have to talk me into Josh Hard And
that's why if you can't sign them to anx engine, you might want to,
just because there's gonna be a lot of money floating around in the market
next year and now there's just not stars to spend it on, and so
there's gonna be some teams that do some reckless things and he's just the archetype
of player. Yeah, or maybe he's a little bit under size for a
wing, but what he's gonna give you defensively, and then like, yeah,
it's three pointspluce have kind of been all over the place, but he
can hit like defenses have to respect a three point shot. I would expect
him to be able to find really significant offers. The next thing I want
to ask you about was what type of role does Jackson Hayes play this year?
And is it larger? Could it be smaller than last year? Just
because now you don't have one an injury prone Derek Favors factoring into the front
court rotation, and you've replaced him with Steven Adams, who you are at
least you know you're somewhat invested in because you did extend him. Yeah,
I mean, I like Jackson Hayes a lot. I think he's still a
child like And I say that because he didn't even start playing basketball and play
it was like thirteen fourteen years old, So he's he's nineteen or twenty right
now, but he's of a younger nine year and twenty if that's possible to
even say, and you'd expect, and so he did get portun into a
world that was probably too much for him last year with the Favors injury.
I mean, he was, he's flashy, he can don't he can block
shots, he's got, he's very he's very long. But he's still learn
very much learning how to play the game at the NBA level, And so
if he takes a step back in minute this year, I wouldn't say a
bad thing. I am very much looking forward to, like I mentioned briefly
earlier, seeing him work against guys like work on the glass against Steven Adams,
Zion, even Hernan Gomez there. I mean, I think it's gonna
get a bunch of challenges in practice, and I'm hoping that can really,
you know, help help his ex play his learning curve, even if it
doesn't play as much. But I mean, I think he's still I give,
I'd say he's right now the fourth big on this team, behind behind
Mellie, especially if you want to give Zion spot minutes at the five as
well. You know, so I could see his minutes being inconsistent, but
I don't see that as a reflection on his potential as a player for this
New Orleans team. I just think he's he's young and he's still learning,
and so I could see a pretty wide range of outcomes for you know,
his his total minutes for New Orleans this year. I could see him falling
behind her nand go out in the depth chart just because they want more rebounding
or but I mean, I think that's an unlikely outcome. But but I
think or even Gabriel too, I mean they I think the Pelicans signed those
guys to be practice bought as much as anything else, maybe her Nails more
so than Gabriel. I think Gabriel the may maybe have a little bit may
fit a little bit better with the standing on these styled and uh, and
there could be a reason for that signing. But but yeah, I mean,
I think you know, it's going to be a longer row with with
Hayes, and I don't want to rush to conclusions too soon. Is there
do you see the outline of a good defender there? I know you mentioned
his shop blocking. Is it just like sort of magic, a matter of
him settling down and like making better decisions, not you know, fouling as
much. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think I guess I mean the
defense, I think take maybe takes a little bit longer to learn in the
NBA level than offense. And I think that that's the hope, right.
I mean, if you're if you're going to draft a five that high,
you've got to see it defensively as a guy who can really make a difference.
And so if not, then you're drafting a guy who if he talks,
if you think he topped out of as a medio over a defender who
isn't that great of a shooter, I where's its world in the league?
So or at least it's a top ten pick, and so I think I
think that Potencil is still very much there. So we kind of touched on
this already. How concerning is the dearth of wings here? Because Ingram is
their only true wing? And then I throw Josh Hart in there just because
you have to, and like, yeah, you have to, Yeah,
But like what what happens from there, Like is when you Gabriel gonna get
like minutes at the three? Is Thornwell going to factor into this? I
like Gabriel, Like I feel like if you you know, tapped into his
veins, there'd be like red bull coursing through them. He just plays with
that type of energy. But I don't like him at the three necessary I
really maybe, so, like, what is this what is happening with this
team? Are were going to see? Like maybe is it more likely that
we see some players playoff where it's like, you know, Nikki Alexander Walker
looks like a day facto wing at some points. I'm just I'm so confused
looking at their death charts. Yeah, yeah, I mean, so that's
that's one of the questions, right, is you the Pelicans by virtually the
Steven Adams move, they restricted themselves because of the tax line too, because
they still have to do I think that's all of the mid level and so,
but they can't use it because they have there may be a tax teams
they sign one more player, the only a fourteen guys in the roster right
now. So I mean there's there's a decent number of reasons to expect there'll
be a trade in season which would make Woods would change the calculus there.
But but I mean, yeah, there's a question of So they went and
signed two big fa minimum are in Gabriel and her names, but they didn't
touch the wing other than Dormball and so will I do. The team clearly
likes based on a couple of preseason games, they see him playing a role
on the So I think you'll see that for Thornwall. I think, like
you said, it's a fair assessment around Josh Harp maybe getting minutes of the
three. But I think, more more than anything, you see a lot
of three guard lineups. I think that there there won't be shy to play,
you know, the play Reddick alongside blood So and Lonzo. The nice
thing about Lonzo is he's able. He's six to six, He's able to
guard a little bit bigger, not not in the same way that Drew Holiday
was. I mean, Drew Holiday one of the best kept sepercids in the
league. That kind of isn't that much the sever anymore. As hell,
well, if he can't defend the post, again, it's pretty much anybody.
And so yeah, that's not really something you're going to see from many
of the other guards in the team. But they've got some versatility to play
some three guard blinds and still be possible defensively. So I think that's you
know, that's that's what I would expect more than anything else. I would
not expect that the guy like Gabriel to play play the three as much as
I think heart Storm well, and then three guard line ups come out.
Yeah, I didn't even that's like something that even really factor it is.
I just looked at as Oh Drew left, like that's one person last that
could defend wings. But as you mentioned, like what he can do in
the post too, they're just so kind of all over the place defensively,
now is this? I guess like that's the other thing is like what do
you kind of see for this team defensively? See cleaning the glass out of
it in nineteen in points allot per possession overall, and there's you know,
we could dig into like the specifics of what was happening there. But are
they built to improve on that is there? Do they have a lower floor
now somehow? Do you expect them to be right around the same area or
do you have any sort of feel for what they could be defensively? Yeah?
I mean I think the easy way to say it is I expect to
be similar to last year. I think they got they got worse defensively.
I don't think they got tremendously worse. I mean I think I think Steven
Adams is an upgrade on Favorites defensively, but i'm I'm I think one of
them. I think I saw that argument in your timeline as well. Not
to interject, but had an impact on their defense. But I agree that
he just wasn't the way he was moving. And I don't know if his
back was an issue all season or something, but he just doesn't move the
same. And Adams is like surprisingly nimble for someone his side, right,
Yeah, fully agree, And yeah, I mean, Favors was the only
above average defender they had and inside and so he his on off numbers looked
good. But you know, I think he was fine. I don't think
he was great. His his win protection numbers were awful last year, way
worse than what he had what he had in Utah, And like you said,
the mobility was not was not there, and so so I mean,
so I think the upgrade to add to Adam helps. Obviously the move from
Drew to Blood so was the downgrade. But I think, like many has
said, it's less of a down grade in the regular season. It's going
to show more in the playoffs and particularly fro Milwaukee. I think maybe Latch
wasn't oral. But but but but I think you know, I think they
they have young players who should, in theory improve, even if it's only
marginally on that end. And most of all, I think their style of
play this year is going to be more aligned to a defense that's improved.
And so Sam and Gundy obviously you know, he gives, he gives a
shit, he cares a lot about defense. You know, the Falcons coaching
staff last year cared of defense, but that wasn't obviously wasn't gentry sports techs.
And so I think I think the combination of the fact this team is
not going to be as crazy about going getting out in transition and for going
rebounding to do that and then save and Gunny's coaching style. I think I
think this team should improve defensively stylistically, but I think they also have to
deal with a slight downgrade and defensive talent. So you know, if you
assume those two things relatively offset, I say they come around. You know,
Lee average defensively this year, assuming help because but again you wanted the
same problem. Steven has been an ironman of sorts, but if he if
he missed his time, they're in a bad spot. So, but I
mean you can said about a lot of teams, right if they lose,
If they lose one guy on one end of the floor and there they're you
know, they're gonna struggle. So so we'll think looking at some of their
younger players, specifically the two most important ones, Kyra Lewis and Nikiel Alexander
Walker. What type of roles do you envision for them? If any like
or is you know, isna like guaranteed minutes this year? Are they going
to give Kyra Lewis the the Nikiel treatment that they gave him last year where
didn't really play. I remained most fascinated by he was just someone I zero
in before the draft last year. Nikkiel Alexander Walker. I remained so fascinated
by his game. It feels like it could be a little chaotic, but
when he has under control, there's just the outline of a really good NBA
player there. So is he going to have a shot to get regular minutes
or do you think he kind of falls through the cracks a little bit more?
Because they do have veterans, like you know, you have Reddeck,
you have you have Letzo, you have Lonzo there and even Hart, you
know, if there are any minutes for him to log at the two because
for some reason they have an excess of wings, which they clearly don't.
Yeah, I mean, I think I would be surprised if NA doesn't have
a spot in the rotation. I mean, I think Kiro will be.
I think your assessment about him having them getting the NA treatment from last year
is fairly accurate. But you know, I think NA lost his minutes to
Frank Jackson, who I think is not a good player at all. But
I think at the same time, the Pelicans wanted to I guess no for
sure before they moved on from him, and they and they saw that after
despite the good summer league and preseason that Nah had last year, he didn't.
He did everything he could to throw his minutes away once they gave him
to him the regular season, like he was not good. But I mean,
I think I think your points are fair, Like I don't. I
think he's got a good chance to be really good in this league, and
I think they're going to give another chance here to you know that Frank Jackson's
not not there to take his minutes away, and really not a lot otherwise
it's changed as far as who's in front of him and the Pelicans backcourt,
uh other than you know. Therefore, I think Tyra is probably in a
red shirt season of shorts. He's he's still he's still pretty pretty young.
I would be I would love to get him to see him get some minutes,
but I could also see them just bring him along fairly slowly and so
uh so, yeah, I mean, I'm hoping that we seem not to
take a take a step forward this year. But yeah, I mean,
and another I guess small thing is they each want Morris gone now. So
he was very his minutes were all over the place. I mean, I
think he helped the Pelicans, made them better, but also I think they
at some point they wanted to see some of the younger guys get some playing
time. But now that he's he's gone, that does open up a few
more minutes in the backcourt. So so I think that that'll be something I
expect to see as well. But I mean, I think I think fans
might be based on what we see in the preseason. I think fans who
are looking to see the young guys might get a little frustrated with like foremost
minutes compared to to Nick Keels or Kira's just because they like what they see
from him sooner. But but yeah, I mean, long story short,
I'm hoping that we see na get them get some minutes this year to see
if you can make improvements on last year. Look, I don't know,
like Thorl just hasn't played enough at the NBA level. But if he's like
his three points when he's have been wild, if he can just hit wide
open threes, I don't think there should be a problem with him getting minutes.
But I was also of the blittle preseason basketball I did catch. I
think it was Pelicans Miami. I'm like Cannah and deer himself to the rotation
by hitting consistently set threes, because that's what he did in that game.
I think he will from what I saw, he was hitting like two or
three of them, and just based off what this team needs, Like if
you can have someone who's going to consistently just hit be an outlet for Zion
off the catch, and then of course he can put the ball on the
deck when he needs to. I just wouldn't wonder what's the justification behind not
playing him in that scenario. But as you said, yeah, bilably inefficient
during his rookies, he's yeah, well yeah, But also I mean tying
this back to Lonzo, I mean, Naws, he's not afraid to drive
and and create contact and get into the paint, and he thrives on it.
And so if he if he's doing that and the Pelican saw many of
the guards who are going to attack the way he does, as long as
he can do it relatively efficiently and create chaos, I mean, why not
let him try to improve up on that. So the next thing I want
to get to is does this team have like mid season turnover potential? And
I kind of mean that from two different perspectives, because I think if in
their situation where after you trade a player like Drew, the assumption will be
like, well, they're open I did to maybe dealing some of their other
veterans for future assets, but like you know, you need like eight pages
to like have to go through all their pick protections already, like they're kind
of set in that department. And the other thing that I've considered, and
I don't think this is novel. I'm sure it's been a talking point,
is that I feel like Zion's best years could come earlier than normal just based
off how he plays like athletically, and so would there be a push to
I don't want to see them, you know, miss handle their timeline like
they did with Anthony Davis early on. But is there like a scenario where
maybe it's not the season, but potentially over the offseason, where there's maybe
more of a push for them to consolidate some of these assets just because they
recognize not only is Zion already good, but like we don't know what type
of player he's going to be at twenty eight, twenty nine, thirty yeah
es socially not Nate. Nate Stocking said the same thing around Zion's timeline next.
But again, I think that that's always been the question is when,
right when you and I don't know if next summer is the time. I
feel like it's sometimes you're almost at the murder see of other other teams,
and so like, you know, when does uh if you're banking on someone
like Towns like when he is he asked out or even like uh, you
know, I think Devin Booker was as a hot name and they went and
trade of Chris Paulis like, I don't think that, you know, unless
something goes horribly wrong, I don't think he's asking out anytime soon. But
I think that's kind of what they're you know, they look they usually look
at the next disgruntled star, right you can you can throw your in that
salary and throw some picks that And so I think that's always been the thought
process around accumulating all these draft picks from the Lakers and Bucks and whoever.
Like, obviously those picks may not look that great, but all it takes
is one to really pan out. And and so I mean, I think
that I certainly think that's the that's the approach. Just don't know what the
exact timeline is on that. And as far as you know, more immediate
this this all or they're in season, I think there's certainly the potential for
that. You've got you've got player, a player like uh Jedia Reddick.
If you don't see him staying in there Rolands past this year and Pelicans aren't
looking like they're going to be in the thick of things, I mean,
he could he could set something nice from a team that's looking to make a
deeper playoff run. I don't know how much you would get. I mean,
you can make a pretty damnag argument that Ji Reddick unplayable deeper in the
playoffs because of the defense at this point in his career. But but I
mean, yeah, you could see certain things like that, uh you know
occur. I I think maybe the only argument against it is that now you
have this play in game, and so as long as you're within directing distance
of the top ten, you can at least make things interesting. And I
think this Pelicans team would feel like, you know, as young as they
are, they're hopefully only going to get better as the season goes on,
and they kind of adapt the standbat going to the system, and you know,
if they're healthy going into the play a game, they probably would feel
like they can be anyone that that they'd be matched up with there. And
so I think they're not gonna punt on that opportunity for like a couple of
second round picks for JJ. But but I mean I certainly think that something
like that is on the table to have some roster turnover or even that's what
like we talked about Wondo, like if he's if they don't see that,
if they do, I feel like they're not willing to pay what they think
Lonzo is gonna get next summer, especially, We'll give them what we're seeing
around other you know, other top end talent getting locked into extensions and then
suddenly you've got all this cap space, but not many players can use it
on. That's a recipe for disaster as a team if you've got a player
that you kind of like but not yeah, like in love with so so
yeah, I mean this, This is probably one of the more team the
teams in the league that's more right for some mid season maneuvering. Do you
think it's more likely that Lnzo would get traded mid season or that it would
be a science trade scenario over the summer with a team that might not have
a ton of cap space. That's a good question. I haven't really thought
thought that far out, but I would. I think I see it more
likely to happen and in season, because I feel like there's the roads start
to separate where it's either a Alonzo started to figure some stuff out, he's
a key piece of what we're doing here, or you just don't see it
and they but you still have a sneaking suspicion based on the talent that's available
next summer, that that he's going to cost too much, and so why
not move him to one of those teams that maybe is willing to pay him
that and they can you know that maybe gives that team more options to to
go to in free agency in addition to Lonzo. So I think I lean
towards the mid season, but in sign and trade next offeason being less likely.
All right, I'd be curious to see what the market would be for
him mid season where they might they might need to wait for it to develop,
like for some teams to sort of fall out of the race, because
I don't know that I see like obvious fits like Chicago's one, but I
don't know what Chicago has a necessarily interest New Orleans. But I'm just going
to be tracking the Lonzo situation and your mentions all season. I know this
is funny, Oh go ahead. It's funny when you mentioned the Bulls because
I had a couple of running comments with some of the Bolts folks that I
know from up there and up and up Pier Bowl where when you know,
since I live in Chicago, about they feel very similarly about Laurie market in
as as New Orleans as people, I don't you feel all about Lonzo?
It's like, oh, let's just flip them. But I don't know.
I don't And it's a very intriguing concept. I feel like because market and
can give you some of the force based team, but a questions like how
good do you think Laurie will I can actually be what's the ceiling? So
but it's just funny to hear about fan base to talk about these two players,
because it sounds a lot alike. Yeah, I had more been thinking
of, like would there be a Lonzo plus like filler plus? Something small?
Do they look at like a zach Lavine? Was the framework. I
wouldn't touch Larry Marketing, to be honest with you, although I guess he
would fit if you trust Zion's Like, I don't know how him and Zion
worked defensively together, probably not at all, but he doesn't obviously provide that
floor spacing. This question is going to be I'm sure fluid and purely matchup
base. But what do you think is going to be their most common or
best closing unit this season? It's boring, and but I think it's the
starting lineup. I think it's it's Blood Cell, Alonzo, Ingram, Zion
and Steven Adams. I mean, you're going to see certain matchup plays where
maybe they're gonna throw a hard and error through JJ for certain plays. But
but I think that's really most likely unless certain players make make a jump.
I don't expect like Nah or even Melly, But but yeah, I mean
most most commonly, I don't see a reason to go away from the away
from the starting five six to close things U unless you've got to get like
super switchy and think that it makes sense to pull Adams out of there.
Yeah, I would be interested to see if it's Zion at the five could
work and literally any of those situations. But if you need stops, then
maybe that's where that becomes an issue, because all a sudden you have Brandon
Ingram and power forward or something. So that's that's not great. Is there
a I have to get weird lineup that you'd like to see them try at
some point this season? I mean, I'm a big fan of the three
yard h so like I feel like I feel like Blood Sew with Lonzo and
Josh hart Are is a lot of fun, and then maybe going with uh,
you know, yeah, the the most fun weird lineups, they're always
the ones that tend to be terrible on defense, right, like, yeah,
it's it's and so like I'm going with Heart and Lonzo because they can
give you some defense and they can give you some rebounding from the guard positions,
which is nice and but and and you can they can space the floor
and then you put Ingram at the four and Zion at the five, that
that can get fun. You better get stopped in the perimeter though, because
because once if a guy gets past you, I'm not sure who's stopping him
inside. But but that would that would be fun to me in itself,
so like probably like Lakers fan Heaven with the three with the three Lakers players
along with Zion and blood Sell. But but but yeah, I mean that
one's fun. And hey, I mean I would the I mean, the
most fun idea, right is not being being legit and having taken a huge
leap in year two because he's got he's got the skill set. That is
fun if he if he turns out to be good and so I guess that's
the X factor. But for now, yeah, that's what I'll go in.
So mine was and I think I built one that would be combustible at
both ends of the floor, which I think is proof that it's super weird.
Is Ingram Zion heart non Reddick and you don't have a point guard in
there. But I'm just wondering if they can get enough out of Like,
look, Reddick is run pick and rolls over the past like few years.
Pretty well, I'm wondering if you could get any out of Noah. There's
Ingram obviously and some Zion, but I think it's not even just a matter
of oh, they'll be bad on defense. There's a chance they'd be really
bad on defense. There's a chance that they'd be terrible on offense as well.
I think see, I think now the point guard, I mean,
I guess we haven't seen enough to him at the NBA level of truly no
obsisition is going to play besides his combo guard, but I mean he's I
want to get him the benefit of the doubt and commno point guard until he
gives me enough of a reason to not do that. Yeah, well,
hey, you don't have to talk me into it. I was swoon if
I saw that light up. So what's the realistic win total? And Western
Conference finished for this teams. The last time I looked at there over under,
they're at thirty five point five. And for people like myself who cannot
think in terms of seventy two games, that's the equivalent of about a forty
win season. So where do you sort of land on that front? I
mean, that's that's about where I am. I think I think the team's
most likely outcome is something just just under five hundred, and I think I
still think they're one of the top ten teams in the West, and so
I still I can have them in the play and conversation. I mean,
because I think, I mean, the the hard the hard part is obviously
what the hell's going on with Houston, But I mean I've got them like
just like a game or two hunder five hundred I think is the most again,
most realistic. But this team's got a a fairly wide range develop coomes
and the stars and ends of Zion's hell. So we assume like a relatively
healthy season for for Zion, then then the variability stern deviation shrinks a decent
amount. But uh, but yeah, not not a sex not a sexy
choice, but it is, like you know, I think that the West
is so deep that it's hard to see the Pelicans making a huge dent unless
they get like a you know, unless Zion turns into this like top fifteen
NBA player in year two and and hey, that's it's I guess that's that's
not totally outland. This Zion is just a freaking nature. But let me
look at like Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, uh, you know, Jazz
Blazers. I mean, I think all six of those teams are comfortably better
this year. I think, right, yeah, I mean like I'm I
kind of I went I think a little too far after the Chris Poual trade
because I was like, oh wait, hold on, depth matters this year
more than a lot of years because you have games happening relatively quickly during a
pandemic, and so the Suns don't have much pass there their top. So
I mean, you've got Eyton Booker, Chris Paul and Bridges and then after
that it gets real dicey, real fast. And so I'm I'm you know,
I like them as a playoff team. I don't know if I love
them as much as I did before or on like like I'm strolling if I'm
gonna make like a crazy bet. It's that the Blazers are a top four
seed this year. I feel I think that's a deep, good team that's
going to be a really good regular season team too, and so like that's
but but yeah, I mean, like I still think and this is the
weird, the weird liberry that's becoming a thing for New Orleans fans. It's
the Grizzlies, because Grizzlies fans, you are getting so annoyed with Zion getting
all the type and John not getting nearly the same coverage, and like as
if New Orleans Rangers, like you just put your hands and be like sorry,
like it's not our choice, Like we're not We're not telling everyone to
hype up Zion like this. And so like the Grizzlies fans get mad and
like take it out on Pelican stands and so it's it's like this budding rivalry
and they're in the same division. So but I still think New Orleans is
a better team on paper than Memphis, and so I still want to put
them ahead of Memphis. So yeah, I mean, like I think I
think, you know, if they can get into the playing game and then
get in like win, knock out a couple of teams rank higher than them,
and get into the playoffs, and that'd be a fun year for me.
I did consider there when I was trying to figure out their sealing in
floor, I did consider putting their floor as tenth. I ended up moving
it to eleventh, just to account for, like some variants. Maybe they
do hold a fire sale or something. I don't know, but like when
you look at I think the Kings have shown their going to and that the
Thunder already have like just steered out of the conversation entirely. I'd agree with
your sentiments on Memphis. I think they're going to take a you know,
just at their looking at their record. Maybe John takes a step forward,
but I think they take a step back overall because of how tough the West
is. You don't have Jaren Jackson junior to start the season. We don't
know what Justice Winslow is gonna look like and when he's gonna play, and
their wing depth isn't great, and so i'd be inclined to put New Orleans
ahead of them. And then you just kind of have to figure like you
said, we don't know what's going on in Houston, but there's gotta be
like one team at least that's going to be worse than them aside from there,
like even Minnesota, I don't think they're going to be that good this
year. I agree with your sentiments on Lands. That would be a spicy
ding for me. I actually had the Suns, I might be higher on
them. I think the issue of Chris Paul is fair like in a truncated
schedule, how many games as you play? But I like their depth.
I guess a little bit more than you do. Just I Cam Johnson,
Javon Carter, Eaton Moore. I thought they just had a really good storage
offseason. So but I think the Pelicans I would expect them to make the
play in I only moved their floor a little bit lower because I do feel
like there's variants and how they view themselves which could affect like what happens during
the middle of the season. Yeah, yeah, that's that's certainly fair.
And like one other thing that I think is super interesting with New Orleans and
it's it's similar conversation I'm sure you would have if you talked to I don't
like if you've done your Dallas prev yet. But both those teams were just
so bad in crunch time that it's almost unsustainable. Are so bad again.
I mean that is even weirder because they were like this elite offense that just
was abysmal and crunch time it's just being no sense. And like, at
least with New Orleans they were like an average too slightly above average team in
normal situations that created in crunch time. But I just can't see that repeating
to the same degree, especially under with more structure. Understand, I think
the results god are there and they're like net rating is much more in line
with their record, and so I think that's that's something I see improved this
here too. It'd be really funny if Dallas was but I shouldn't say funny.
Maybe that's mean if Dallas was betting funch time again just because okay,
Luca better decision making, that probably gives you a bump, but like they
didn't necessarily improve the shot creation around him, but not the Mavericks pod.
Is there anything I didn't ask you about that you think we need to touch
upon, or something that's your miscovered or misperceived about this team from a national
perspective. No, I mean I don't think so. I mean, I
just I think the one thing that I've lightly touched on before that has been
I think I've gotten the most kind of surprise reactions to with the discussion around
Favors versus Steven Adams, because Favorite has this pretty strong reputation as a good
defensive big man, and it's just like, and the advanced stats in New
Orleans kind of at a high level aligned that, given like what they looked
like with him on the floor versus off. But and it's I just I
couldn't feel more strongly about the upgrade from Favors to Steven Adams, just because
of just watching games and seeing that, you know, seeing how how Favors
look moving around and obviously certainly somewhat injury related, but it's just looked like
he was much older than the player I saw in Utah, And I mean,
the room protection numbers are way down and a lot of other stuff that
he just that Steven Adams does better. And so I am very excited for
that that switch on on and off the floor, and I think that's gonna
you know, he's he's his teams are always better when he's on the floor,
and his Thunder teams have been. He's just you know, I feel
like you go around league and can't find anyone that will say a bad thing
about the guy. And I'm just really I think that he's going to offset
the downgrade from Drew too blood so more than people give credit to and so
like that's that's one thing I'm looking for. And now now Watts is a
typical New Orleans team. He'll get injured in like the thord game of the
season, because I'll set all that that's that's that's New Orleans. That's that's
what we come to expect with this team. But hopefully not well. I
think I like the offensive fit with Adams if you're gonna have like the non
shooting type big beside Zion, I like Adams better than favorites. Maybe a
healthier favors could be there's a path him being better defensively. But you know
the other thing with his swings, looking at those on off numbers for favors,
like they like they were working with a very low baseline, like when
he came back from his initial injury, and so like that's gonna naturally if
you're competent, like that's just gonna uplift by default because there's the how much
worse can you get? Factor? Yep, yep, exactly. But Mason,
this was great. Thank you for giving me so much of your time
so close to the season. Mind you, that was not my expectation.
I thought this was going to leak into the regular season. If you guys
are not following Mason on Twitter, remedy that post taste. He's at Mason
Ginsburg. That's at m A s O N G I N sbe rg.
He is the co host of the Blue Wire podcast In the Know and the
occasional writer for Bourbon Street Shots. Again. Follow him on Twitter. Mason,
thank you so much for doing this. I always love talking Pelicans with
you. Yeah. Absolutely, thank for having Mason's great Sugar, Ray Leonard,
Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns legends whose four
way rivalry define one of the greatest errors in boxing history, relive their decade
of dominance in the new Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four part series
premiering Sunday, June sixth, only on Showtime