And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is a triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the randallsham Pars incident. It
doesn't involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over
our heads. Classic. He's also really standing into clearing. He turned over
to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes and
said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show.
During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room, and
don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. All right,
everyone, welcome to the show. This is Martin Willisher host. This is
gonna be a fun show tonight, and we have two guests coming up tonight.
First of all, we have Lee Spiegel. He's going to be talking
about a show that's upcoming soon within a few weeks, we hope. And
and then after that I have Rich Hoffman. He is he was back on
three years ago. A lot has happened since he was on, and he
has a great background. Started when it's extremely young, thirteen years old checking
out UFOs and was actually on the Phil Donahue at age fifteen talking UFOs isn't
that amazing anyway. So that's our guest. We have Alejandro Rojas coming up
in just a minute with UFO UFO updates and the blog we have this week
from Charles lear Is. Trust me, this is science. It's basically about
if you're looking into the UFO topic, you know, more or less,
beware and look out for pseudoscience and try to figure out which is pseudoscience and
which is real science if you can find any real science when it comes to
UFOs. So check that blog out. It's on podcast ufo dot com.
We also have a Facebook page podcast UFO and and live shows. I think
that's how it's titled, and so check that out. There's twenty two thousand
or so people over there and a lot of activity. UFO updates every day.
And speaking of updates, we have Alajandro Rojas for UFO updates. Welcome
friend, Hello, how are you doing good? Geez? That was weird,
no intro, I know what happened straight, Yeah, Well you're supposed
to pretend like that's the way it's supposed to be on radio. That's the
thing is you pretend like like nothing went wrong. Yeah, and you just
move on you're right, you're right, yeah, Oh that was a great
I really liked how you tried this kind of no intro thing so we could
get right into it. That's right. Yeah, it was a nice,
nice little silence. Dead air is wonderful, yes, yeah, a little
bit of peace and quiet so we can reflect on on what we're doing and
gather our thoughts. That's where we get into this heavy topic. Next week.
I'll make sure I have crickets going. But anyway, so, how's
everything going good? So a lot's gone on, of course, right,
because I wasn't on the show last week. We keep talking about some of
these stories that came out in the last week. It feels like we've talked
about but there's no way because we haven't talked in the last week. But
it's been an exciting week. Of course. All of the stories are mostly
around the program Unidentified, you know, America's UFO investigation so on the History
Channel that first episode finally came out. You and I of course have talked
about it since we got an early preview because we're special We were in special
class when we were younger, and we of course both liked the show.
But there's a lot of information. Now, the first episode is mostly information,
especially our listeners will be familiar with because it included the Nimics case.
Some of what was in there, which I think some of our people might
not have known about, was you know, this was the first time we
had heard from the female pilot and she still remained anonymous in this blacked out,
So that was really interesting to have her go through Nimits. And also,
even though you know, both of you and I have had people on
to talk about this, and I've written a lot about it, there's so
many working parts in the backgrounds really confusing, and so I thought they did
a really great job of going over Steve justice background, Tom Delong's, lu
Alesando's Chris Mellon, all the major players. I think they did. They
all have such incredible histories and credibility that substantiates you know what they're talking about,
and I thought they did a really good job tackling all of their backgrounds.
You know, of course, I'm sure as myself, you've probably heard
from a lot of people that watched it, and you know, got all
kinds of feedback. Someone said there were too many commercials, you know that
when I were lucky enough not to be able to watch it without commercials.
So I hate commercials too, So I get that one. And then you
know, people were talking, oh, it's just the same stuff rehashed.
But I think, you know, like you mentioned the female pilot that was
really great and I you know, there's a lot to that story, and
you know, it's it was. I believe it was a really good one
to start off with myself. I agree, yeah, it was. They
had to, you know, it's the one that was out there, and
they did offer something new. They did offer the perspective of this, uh
you know other pilot that we haven't heard from. Uh. They also had
a couple of people come in and analyze the video, and I thought that
was really interesting. And you and I both spoke with the producer, Anthony
Lapey, you know, and he's great. You can tell he and he
was right. You know, what he told us in our interviews came out
to be true in the show that they were really just letting things flow.
Like he said, he didn't want anybody to do at double take, like
if they screwed up, he was like, no, that's done. You
know, we're just recording what happens as it happens, we're not we don't
want to see scripted or script anything at all, and that came across in
the show, but it came across very credible. Of course, I feel,
you know, we've heard from Lou and Lose a very good at articulating,
you know, what he feels or what he's trying to do. Chris
Mellon, of course, it's been incredible. And that's where the news comes
in getting into the news is that we've got a lot of these people on
television. So we've got Chris Mellon on Fox News, CNN, Good Morning
America. We've got all of these these people essentially the main players, LL
Lou on, all of those, Tom DeLong on a couple of things.
Tom DeLong did a Newsweek opinion piece that was really good. Actually, and
I say actually because of course we all know Tom could get kind of often
to some more odd topics, more speculative topics in the rest of the group,
but he really stuck to the topics at hand. That was really good.
And then the big news from the week was this New York Times article
which introduced some new pilots that we're going to hear from in future episodes of
Unidentified And these are pilots who were with the Roosevelt who were involved with UFO
incidents that happened in twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen. And shockingly, you know,
these guys said that they were having these experiences or at least catching these
things on radar for almost daily, that they didn't know what they were.
They assumed that perhaps somebody was testing some sort of new drone, you know,
kind of a black project type of thing, until they had their own
encounter when two of the jets had one of these things. Well, in
the story, they make it sound like they almost had a near miss.
One of these things was in between them that was cube shaped with kind of
an orb around it, and that's when they really caught their attention. They're
like, wow, this is dangerous. This is not good. If this
is you know, obviously it's something physical, it's could really put our lives
in danger at this point. So that's when they started taking it very seriously.
What's really exciting And of course I'll plug it on my blog, but
a lot of people have posted this. Now is the history also released to
some of us some clips You probably saw these some clips from those Navy pilots
and those were really cool. So I've got those posted at all jandret rojas
dot com where you could see them, three separate clips about a minute or
so each where it's the pilot's talking about this incident. But what was revealed
in these clips is that these incidents are also the origins of the other two
F eighteen flare videos that we've been questioned questioning since the beginning, the one
called go Fast and the one called Gimbal. We haven't known, you know,
where did these things come from, and now we know. Of course,
we have limited information thus far, except to know that you know,
these pilots are aware of it, have seen the video, do believe that
it is something unusual. So that's really exciting that we're going to hear more
from this. You know. The other thing that we did get a little
bit of information of it and we're getting more is, of course, this
organ event I did talk about on the last show with you, the McMinnville
event where David Fraber, one of the other pilots, the wing commander who
was on the nimits, and he talked about the gimbal video in particular because
he was saying, you know, somebody had asked, well, actually this
one my question I had asked about, you know, was this a missile
or an aircraft because there's a lot of the skeptics and debunkers out there who
have said that all this was was you know, a rotation. Even our
good buddy Mark the Antonio I believes this. But Fraber talked about how he
feels that's absolutely there's no way. And he talks about the characteristics of an
aircraft, an aircraft, and it makes a great point that you can't an
aircraft can't fly like this. It looks like they are sometimes, but in
order to create lift on the wing, they have to be creating, you
know, a friction. They've got a bank left or right if they're going
to go sideways like this, he said, sometimes the Blue Angels can kind
of do these maneuvers for a little while with they do these tricks, but
otherwise it's going to fall out of the sky. Right, So this was
not an aircraft that went like this. And what were the effects we're seeing
are not you know, effect from the actual lens of the of the flear
camera. So you know, we now at least we're getting and I you
know, many of us assume this was a case that these guys aren't going
to come out and say that these videos are unusual for no reason. I
mean, their credentials and there are on the line. Their credibilities on the
line as well. So when these pilots are coming out and saying, no,
you know, this is not something conventional and something I've dealt with before
and is demonstrating some advanced technology, there's no doubt that they put a lot
of thought towards it to make those determinations and come out and say those things.
That's right. Pardon me. We are out of time because I only
have I'm only gonna have Lee on for about ten minutes or so until okay,
So anyway, thanks so much, Aljundro, and we'll be talking to
you next week. All right, thanks man, all right, talk to
you then. All right, So our next guests needs no introduction. That
means I'm not going to introduce him except for say, hello, Lee,
welcome to the show. Hello ho Martin. Thanks for that glorious introduction that
was your whole background everything. Yeah, well that's called a mini bio.
No, I appreciate that, Thank you. No you've been on so many
times. There, You've been on so many times. But I guess it
would be just a we're just so short on time because we only have ten
minutes until we go into break. But so Lee's been in the well you
say it in a quick nutshell your background from the new listeners if you would,
Well, I've been investigating researching this crazy phenomenon called UFOs for forty six
years now, makes me an old timer in the whole series. I've Among
the things that I've helped to do to forward people's information about this was in
nineteen seventy five I produced for CBS a vinyl documentary record album called UFOs The
Credibility Factor, in which it was the first time that the voices of people
who've had encounters who have had strong opinions about UFOs and these are these are
people in science, in the military, in politics, and had them come
together in one voice to basically ask the government please come cleaned about UFO information.
And from there I kind of leapfrogged a couple of years later into bringing
UFOs to the United Nations in nineteen seventy eight, and then kind of from
there kept moving forward in this, I guess mission of mine. I spent
eight years on NBC Radio just doing Unexplained phenomenal features, more than fifteen hundred
programs about the topic and UH and more recently seven years I spent as the
chief UFO writer at the Huffington Post. That's right. And then, as
you and many of your listeners known, now, I'm still involved with film
producer James Fox. We're putting it together. We're in the last throws of
an upcoming documentary. And for those who don't know the name of it yet,
we started to still the beans a little bit. This is going to
be called the Phenomenon. Oh, you finally named it. This is a
name name number three, isn't it. But it's going to stick right yeah?
Well yeah. And one of the reasons why that we've actually chosen that
that name has to go back to literally nineteen forty seven previously classified military document
that's now commonly referred to as the Twining Memo. You when Flying Saucer reports
were flourishing in forty seven, Air Force Lieutenant General Nathan Twining, he was
the commander of the Air Material Command. He issued a very eye opening but
secret at the time memo to the Army Air Forces and the subject line of
it was the Air Material Command Opinion concerning flying discs. And among the things
that this very serious memo stated was, and this is a quote from it,
quote, the phenomenon reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious.
Fictitious. There are objects approximating the shape of a disc of such size as
to appear to be as large as man made aircraft unquote. So this memo
went on to describe the incredible maneuverability demonstrate its demonstrated by these objects seventy two
years ago, and these things are still out maneuvering current global aircraft technology.
And so that that twining memo eventually brought about a multi military investigation known as
Project Goobook. But it was the beginning of the quote were referred to it
as the phenomenon. Both James Fox I credit James was saying, let's call
the phenomenon the documentary because in so many places historically in documents it's always referred
to as the phenomenon, and that just kind of stuck with us and went,
yes, there's our title. Wow, simple and good. Yeah,
exactly, Yeah, that's great. It started out for the listener that because
I still get email. I think I got one two weeks ago, someone
saying when is seven oh one coming out? And that was the first working
title. So this is what this is. Morphed into it this time,
and it's going to be a smash when it actually comes out. I know
it is. With the work that you've described to me, in the budget
and everything, it's going to be a major movie and I can't wait for
it. And so well, we're looking you know, we're looking forward to
doing it and to talking about it. I'm looking forward more to talking about
it on your show. And I'm also happy that you and I will soon
be co radio colleagues on KGr A Digital Broadcasting when I begin my own program
called Edge of Reality Radio, and that's coming up pretty soon, I would
think within a few two to three weeks or something like that. And you're
filling in Linda moulton House time slot on Thursday, which is is at eight
to ten pm Eastern Standard time, Eastern Time. That's what I's That's what
we're talking about. Although we're really left to do now is figuring out the
technical logistics of my broadcasting the show from New York. Uh, you know,
back to the KGRA, a main broadcast studio in the in Utah,
so that it can have a real nice clean signal all across America and then
later across across all international boarders. So I'm looking forward to this and I
want to get this thing rolling as soon as possible. In fact, I've
already outlined the guest list for approximately the first five months of my show.
I can't believe that you told me that the other day. Five months and
uh, well, well, I'm serious about doing this. I guess you
are. You know, I'm lucky if I have a month I had.
It's it's not always that an easy thing to do, especially if someone changes
at the last minute and you can't get a fill in. And um,
and thank you. Last week I announced I didn't have any guests, and
you know you were gracious enough to come on. Um and um. Also
UM, let's talk about I can't I believe who your first guest is.
Let's talk about a couple of that and a few other guests coming up.
Well, my first guest, hopefully if if he still wants to do it,
and in the mood, because it's been a while since since I asked
him, is a man named Jacques Ballet? Perhaps you and some of your
audience who all of your audience have heard of Jacque? I never heard of
no O. That's great. Now Jacques is not not not just simply a
scientist and astronomer astrophysicist. Uh, he is like a legend, and not
just in UFOs, but but in many areas of science. He's done so
many things. He was the first scientist decades ago who who mapped did a
computer mapping of the planet Mars. Finasam I think like that, but people
don't know about Wow. Yeah, he's a He's a multifaceted guy, very
interesting. And who who's some of your other guests? I know you were
going to have Stan Freedman until we lost him. He was really looking forward
to coming, right, Yeah, yeah, and and and and yes,
so Stan, very sadly we'll not be with us. He's with us,
but he's still with us on so many areas, in so many levels.
UM going to be talking with as many people in in the U full field
as I can. I'm looking for military folks. I'm going to be talking
with pilots that haven't done a lot of radio interviews, more politicians, more
international figures of people that we haven't heard from, and and also especially more
scientists, because now we're at a point in time historically where scientists aren't just
saying, oh, there's nothing to this, this whole thing, you know,
UFOs are just strange lights or strange inverted weather patterns and things like that.
No, it's going to be on that now, mostly thank to the
New York Times in twenty seventeen and all the stuff that came out with the
Pentagon revelations of their top secret UFO studies, and now more recently the whole
revelation that the Navy is now creating new guidelines for their pilots and Navy personnel
who have had very close encounters. And this is not just something that's just
recent. They are now admitting these things have been going on for a very
long time. And I've been trying to stress that every time I do some
kind of an interview, who is that This is not a new thing,
It's not an American thing. It's an international phenomenon that we're dealing with.
And part of me is kind of curious. I still wonder why the Pentagon
or the Navy would suddenly come out and say, yeah, our pilots,
our military forces have had strange encounters, strange things that we don't understand.
Why would they suddenly say that now in history? I don't fully understand that.
What purpose will that serve any of us to have this kind of information
come out now, like on a more official level, which which is what
this is talking about. It. This is what it feels like. Uh,
you know, there's a definite I think there's a definite feeling in the
air, you know, yeah, yeah, who whoever's in charge of what
the public is told about UFOs over many decades now Martin, maybe they're loosening
up a little, But for what reason? What purpose will it served to
admit to the citizens of our planet unexplained aircraft of unknown origin they have been
operating in our skies for a very long time. So on on the New
Edge of Reality Radio, I want to explore this a lot and see where
it takes us. That is awesome. Well, I'm really looking forward to
it. I'm definitely going to be tuning in UM and so when that becomes
available, I'll make an announcement on this show and make sure that everyone knows
when to tune in. Oh, and thank you. I appreciate that.
Yeah, and I love what you're doing. I'm I'm glad that finally you
and I are going to be able to do the same thing now together at
the same place. That's right, Well, competition, right, isn't that
what they're calling? No? No, that that that's not really competition.
I know, I know, I'm just easy, you know, but the
people on KGRA, I don't think anybody is in competition with each other.
We just all kind of want to get this information out in the best possible,
credible, efficient way. Yeah, and you, um, you had
fifteen hundred shows years ago and some amazing, amazing people you spoke to back
then. And I'm really really I'm truly looking forward to it, and I'm
really excited about your show coming up. And so yeah, we're going to
head into break and I'm going to be breaking on YouTube before I do.
This is a special note to YouTube listeners. I was hoping to make an
announcement for this coming Friday around noontime and I did not get the one percent
confirmation email that I was waiting for. It's going to be a special show,
a live stream. You're going to want to see it, so keep
an eye on my channel. If you're watching a YouTube, please click subscribe
and click the little bell next to the subscribe button. That way you'll get
a notification of what I have coming up. But it's about ninety five percent
sure that I'm going to have a really really good show coming up this Friday
afternoon. I think it is twelve ten pm Eastern time. And also if
you want to get an notification by email, just run over to podcast ufo
dot com. On the sidebar there is a little email notification thing you can
fill out. Leaf so much and my pleasure, Martin, thank you.
All right, take Aaron. Well we'll talk real soon. Looking forward to
it. All right, everyone hanging there, I'll be right back with Rich
Hoffman. All right, welcome back to the show. Sorry for the extended
break. We had a little bit of technology issues, I would say,
and speaking of that, our guests, Rich Hoffman, he's a an information
technology consultant and strategist. He has been with a well, he's been a
defense contractor for over twenty years, primarily for the Army Material Command HQ,
with a variety of other companies. He's got quite a background. He started
when he was extremely young. Was on the Phil Donahue Show at only fifteen
years old. I think they called, well, welcome to the show.
Rich, good to have you back. Hey, it's good to be back
with you and Martin. I enjoy your show. By the way, well
thank you. When someone like you says that, I really means a to
me. Thank you. Um so I think didn't they call you a UFO
expert? I always love that one, don't you. Yeah, I got
it. Yeah. The funny thing about it was I used, uh,
you know, I had a license plate uh and it was UFO XPRT and
and I and it fit from the back end of my bumper in the car.
And the funny part about it was, you know, it caused a
lot of conversations because I'd be at a gas station and somebody would see it.
They say, oh, wow, are you what is that? Well
then you get the people that say it's you Fox Burt, and I'm going,
well, okay, now let me explain that one. But it just
starts as a conversation starter. So I just used that for my even for
my email and stuff. I said, the hell of it, I'll just
use it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's funny. It's
fun Yeah, but you've been you have, um, you have a great
background, and you've taken the subject seriously as you've you know, gone through
time and uh so you've been you were actually had cases that you were researching
at a very young age, right, Oh yeah, I mean, so
let me give you a little bit of an age. I guess started when
I was thirteen years old and I was living in Dayton, Ohio, and
so I would it's right about that time that I found out that there was
a project just up the street at Bright Patterson and you know, and so
my first book that I picked up was the Captain Edward Rupel talking about the
Project Bluebook, and I'm going like, man, this is just up the
road for me, and at that age, you know, it's quite it's
quite an impression, and it just propelled me big time into it. And
so I started doing a you know, at that time, I was doing
a lot of like clippings and just getting every book that I could possibly get,
every magazine that I could get, was reading voraciously. And the next
thing I know, it was like somebody asked me up to give a presentation
at some sort of an Astronomy Club in Dayton, and I went up there
and did that, and then somebody else heard that I did that, and
then the next thing I know, I was like, I was getting calls
from like Sartomas clubs and Optimist clubs and everything else wanted me to come.
And then next thing I know, churches wanted me to come. So and
then and then eventually I got word over to the Phil Donahue. And this
is before I went up to Chicago and really became famous. So it was
when he was just starting in Dayton and h and uh. So I was
like, I guess at an early experiment, but they had heard that I
was going around talking all this stuff about UFOs, and so let's just do
it. And then the next thing, you know, is that that propelled
me even further. Too. Now I'm starting to get phone calls from like
people like left and right saying, hey, can you come and check this
out? And it's not like I was an investigator at that time, but
eventually moved didn't Hey, I got to be able to do that. And
then in nineteen sixty five there were a story of activity and I was going
crazy trying to keep up with some of that work on cases h and it
just kept building and building over time to the point where if you probably look
at my caseload, it's it's well over a thousand cases firsthand, like you
know, Field Investigator or work and it so it's on the road, you
know, and climbing from the church and uh, you know, and that's
what it was about. So I was on the front lines for those.
And then eventually I you know, let into me getting into move on when
it was the Midwest UFO network and that was before you know, a lot
blue Book was going on up the road, and occasionally I would bump into
a Blue Book officer who was doing like the same case or something of that
nature, and so we would compare notes or I'd talk with them, and
then we'd shared information. The next thing I know is that made me a
phone number to call rap CON for radar approach control, and I could get
up and get information about that. And I was connecting with Lens Stringfield and
Cincinnati, and him and I were talking a lot. And then I would
bump in occasionally to Heinik, who would be around at the Dayton Engineers Club
giving presentations, and I would go and listen to him present. Then Uh,
you know again, I would bump into like, you know, uh,
Stanton, and I would bump into just all these big name people and
you know, in the ufology world, and it was a very exciting time.
And anyway, I just I have a very long history with bumping into
this stuff. So it's it's been a joy for me. Yes, And
I'm glad you're you're at it because you take it seriously. You do a
nice a really nice job. And a lot has happened since you and I
were talking last I meantime, there's a lot a lot to talk about.
UM. And you're part of the Scientific Coalition. Um, what is the
full title of that. Well, we've just changed it was the Scientific Coalition
for Ufology, and then we've now changed it to the Scientific Coalition for UAP
Studies. We wanted to emphasize that we are studying this stuff. Yeah,
and that was that was important. And then the other thing that we learned
from we had a conference here in Huntsville where I live, uh back in
mid March, and UH at that conference, we had a lot of people
that were saying, you know, we're trying to get scientists engaged from the
military side, we have none. You know, the UFO term has so
much, uh that it's got a stigma even to professors and universe versus and
various other things who want to do more Where you mentioned the UFO and it's
not it leads into you know, all that's a wacky stuff, right,
so much like you know Europeans have done it where they've switched over to UAP,
we decided to go with the unidentified aerospace phenomena because aerospace is also covering
the water as well as the air and space, so it's got all three
of those mediums that we can use that one term for UFOs, USOS and
something else, you know, and so that's pretty We decided to go with
that, and scientists that we had and the professors we had and the doctors
all agreed that that would be the better way to go. Interesting. Wow
yeah, yeah, yeah, think I should change my show to podcast UAP.
You know, you do such a great job with it that it doesn't
really matter. So I mean, but I'm just telling you that that there
is a stigma out there that it has been keeping conversations a little bit on
the quiet side from a lot of people in those scientific worlds and and so
we're trying to bring them and make them feel comfortable, and it's easier for
them to get this aerospace phenomena thing than it is UFO and come to a
conference and maybe get improved by their universities. So there you go, now
in the case and the conference. Who are just speaking about where you had
it in Huntsville there, Yeah, I understand the Unfortunately I didn't go,
but some friends went. Randy Nickerson was there, A hundred was there?
Yeah? And so from what I understand, the most fascinating part that I
got out of the bits and pieces of what I heard about that was that
the U in particular the tic tac UFO people are saying it's being beaten to
death. That you know, we're talking about it too much. But in
that in particular, I understand there was someone that did some study on the
G forces of what they were actually visually seeing and seeing on radar, and
how impossible they would be for a craft that we know of to stay together
and certainly not any any beings inside being able to take those G forces.
Do you have any little tidbits on that in particular that you remember, Yeah,
So let me clarify that Robert Powell got started back when the Paco Cherry
or Cherichi, I think that's how you say his name, did a fighter
sweep article on the whole tic TAC encounter. And so Robert got started with
it at that time and began collecting evidence and getting a hold of things and
trying to document this. And so eventually then over a period of time,
we formed a team of us to begin to take a look at it and
to put together a you know, and see what we could find out.
And obviously we didn't have things like radar, actual radar data, and we
didn't All we had was the testimony that was coming in, and so we
began clalking and contacting a lot of the witnesses to that and you know these
and so what you could do, and this is where we're SEU is about.
We're you know, typically a UFO report might get very minimal treatment scientifically,
it might get maybe like a you know, a couple of pages or
something like that. We saw that when with Move On, where we didn't
see like lengthy analysis or a long term studies of it. And we thought
that the better cases deserved that right, They deserve our attention, and so
we we said that we're going to spend that time. And so we spent,
like you know, over two years putting together this report. And part
of the report was to document as much as we could about the case,
about what the witnesses said, our attempts at getting FOIA requests. We've got
that whole section on that. We put together, a glossary, we put
together, We put together an analysis based upon a lot of different factors.
For exampleable we had we talked with the radar people. They would describe objects
that would be dropping down from the skies at like eighty thousand feet and maybe
stopping at twenty thousand or even going to sea level and stopping just above the
sea level, and a matter of say okay, and then you would you
would you would take a look at that and say, well, what what
are the physics involved in that? What would what would if you looked at
that from a physical physics standpoint, what could you deduce if you had something
with a similar size to the tic tac uh. You know, let's say
an airplane that's that's weighs a certain weight or has a certain weight to it,
and if it were if it were some the acceleration. If you think
about if I move from eighty thousand feet and I stop, or even twenty
thousand feet doesn't matter. If I'm a twenty thousand feet and I go to
sea level, and then it's a matter of just within less than a second,
what what is the g force that would be experienced, what would be
the speed of that? What? How would you accelerate to get to a
certain point and then suddenly decelerate, uh to come to a full stop above
the water. And the wonderful part about that whole thing is that you know,
you can use mathematics and and basically the types of things that we already
understand and kind of deduced what that would be like. And so he said,
let's do that. And so basically you had Peter Reality who did that
and took it on and put together in his papers in the back of it
in the appendices section the physics of that are involved in that. And so
you find out that like an object that would be going from like roughly twenty
thousand feet to sea level and stopping would in point seven eight seconds or whatever
like that would basically have used moved it over one hundred thousand miles per hour
or something of that nature. And we and the other thing that we did,
Martin was we used also conservative estimates. Instead of instead of it being
like point seven eight seconds, let's use it it maybe like three seconds.
Let's look at it at six seconds. And so we did that where we
showed in a table kind of or at what those different speeds would be,
to include what the different the power inputs would or outputs would have been to
have done that, and then you start to look at that and then the
G force and you come up with the fact that nobody could survive it.
If it were like an aircraft falling from that sky or moving down at that
sky, it would basically have disintegrated, and that the G forces is exceeding
human And so we did that and our plus we also took a look at
it from the standpoint that if you recall in the storyline when when Faber is
making his upward motion and the object is too going from c level and coming
up to about twenty thousand feet as it was progressing up at altitude, the
object then leaves and then it suddenly ends up very quickly over at the cap
point. You hear them mentioned this combat air patrol, which is a classified
point of where they're supposed to actually meet when they conduct this red blue experience
that's read war fighting kind of thing that they've got. And so the fact
that it did that and you're able to now measure to speak, because that's
sixty miles away, and you're able to say, well, let's look at
that one, you know. And so then you find out again it exceeds
beyond what we know of in the way of propulsion systems and the g force
that would have been involved, as well as the power that's required. At
one point, one of our estimates showed that it would have been equivalent to
potentially that of Hoover dam terms. And then you you also take a look
at the testimony of Commander Slate and you find out that he talks about there
is like a kind of like a barrage like effect above the tic TAC or
around the tic TAC. I mean, he talks about that, and so
you say, well, okay, is that some sort of a yield around
it? You know? And and what would that be? And that's the
kind of details you want from these very credible and very good observers who notice
these very small details that help us to understand what might be with the phenomena,
I mean, and how it might be performing. And so we need
more of that highly, you know that that kind of and we'd love to
be able to have the radar data, but you know, obviously that's a
little bit hard to kid since it's apparently not being found or released to us.
Oh um, Well, I was just thinking that there are other cases
that you've been able to study like this or is it? And can you
talk about them where you've come up with some similar things. Well, uh,
you know, I think you might if you go up to the explore
scu dot org site that we have. Uh. We also did one hundred
and sixty two page paper for number years ago on the Aguadia case. And
I don't know if you recall that Aguadia, Puerto Rico incident, but we
say that there were the two k put together our reports, if you would,
uh, and our study of what we saw in the video clips as
well as the and both of them were like infrared or thermal imaging kinds of
cameras that were used. The app F litter is of course a little bit
different from the westcam that was in the Aguadia thing. And so you have
to get head smart about the whole thermal kind of like range and and find
out about the midwave IRU where it is in terms of what it can reveal
to you. Uh. And that's been a whole new world for us,
quite frankly. Uh. And now SUS got a total of about twenty two
PhDs on board and we're continuing to now build partnerships with others as well,
and we're hoping that we can bring on more of the thermal experts out there.
We tried to take our studies over to them to get as much as
we can to happen peer reviewed. We had this document peer reviewed, and
we had the last document looked at by the French who also came back and
pretty much confirmed, for example that in the Aguadia case there was a question
about the path and they confirmed to us that the path was circular like we
thought that it was. And those things are helpful too, and we just
need to have more peer reviewed or more other kinds of like scientific companies or
organizations take a look at this our data, the data and do the same
thing. Wow, um, you know, we are ready, we are
ready to go to break and what I'm going to do here is we're having
some issues with Skype. So what we're gonna do is I'm gonna be actually
calling you back on the phone. But for right now we are heading into
break, So hanging everyone. We'll be right back right after these messages.
All right, welcome back. My guest tonight is rich Hoffman, and we
have them now on the phone. Room should be a nice clear signal.
Um, right, Richard, there aren't you well? I here? How
are you? Yeah? Uh yeah, yeah, just make sure you hold
the phone close if you would. And so we were basically talking about,
um, you know, the different the Puerto Ricanum incident um, which there
was a lot of That's the first time I've actually seen like real science and
uh to work, people taking something really seriously. And it almost seems like
a um, this seemed to almost open the door for what we're seeing today
a little bit, just the fact that, um, you know, people
are really looking at the subject more seriously. And what is your thoughts on
that? I mean, you've seen a lot of change in ever since you
know, last year and a half or so, right, oh, dramatically
and you know, I kind of like, you know, it's one of
those things where I look back on my history with this whole thing, like,
for example, you know, are the cases any different from what we
had back in the fifties and sixties, And the answer is no, in
the sense that we had military cases and we've had you know, jet pursuits,
and we've had incursions in our airspace and we've had you know, all
that stuff that has pretty much been there and there's so it's nothing for me,
It's not you know, my perspective anyway, it's nothing new. We've
just had some incredible cases in the past that are not received being as much
attention on the media side. I mean, yeah, they were they they
got into national enquiry or they got into something like that, but you didn't
have anything that was really grabbing hold of the attention like it is today.
And now you've got you know, the whole thing is, you've got more
advanced technology that we have over I mean, our radar systems have dramatically improved
our capabilities. The aircraft and everything else are fabulous and the top top notch,
and so the fact that these kinds of systems are detecting these things and
they're seeing that they're doing these incredible maneuvers, and you have very high level,
credible pilots, and you have the willingness to be able to confront it
and put it on too, like something like the New York Times. And
then now now it's out in these videos, and you have the credibility of
the fact that we found out that there were approp them at the Pentagon,
and you have the lead of that willing to talk about it and help us
to get the getting more. And so that's that's a holistically different flavor than
what you had back in Blue Book days and and where we were before.
And so to me, it's a whole like a whole other world. And
I'm so happy to see that you know that they're saying that they I mean
basically saying that, yeah, these things do exist, and oh, by
the way, you know, uh, we need to pay attention to them,
and oh, by the way, yeah there might be potential threats and
you know, and they're they're hanging over our you know, nukes. Should
we be concerned? You know? Should we? Should we not be concerned?
And should? And so I'm glad to see it's getting that serious attention,
and it's helping a lot of more scientific people who are like I call
them, going back to Jacques balia heinach days, the invisible college, are
willing to actually now come out and talk a little bit. And there's more
people that are willing to this GOSSI. So it's to me this is exciting
kind I am thrilled death. No, No, I'm totally with you there.
I've I've seen, you know, for um, just one thing alone.
My listenership is greatly picked up with people just now looking into the topic
that never had before. And so that's why I kind of dive into everyone's
background, if if they've been on the show before or not. Um,
and you know what I've seen, Um, you know, since um,
this whole thing came out and you know, I think it was December sixteenth
or whatever was um twoy seventeen, I believe it was. Yeah, UM,
since that time, you know, it just seems to be escalating to
where more and more, um, you know, people are taking it seriously.
I'll just tell you a quick situation. I was in I'm an appraiser,
that's my profession, and I was down in Massachusetts and as I was
walking into this house, I saw these navy bumper stickers on the back of
the car of the people that lived in this house where I was going.
And I was in there, and after a while, I said, I
had the courage to say, hey, did you hear about the navy?
You know, the new reporting on UFOs. The Navy's actually taking this seriously.
And the woman wouldn't stop talking about it, and she and her husband,
her husband's retired, and they thought it was amazing and all that.
And then she started telling me about a sighting. And I'm really always very
careful about mentioning the UFO topic when it comes to my profession and all that,
but every once in a while, you know, I feel comfortable enough
to talk about it, and this time it was received well. But you
never know, but it's it's a lot more. It just seems a lot
easier now than it was when I started the show, for sure. Yeah,
And that's pretty much where I'm at. I clear, it's like when
Blue Book was closed, and you know, they basically had the cons and
report and everything else, it seemed like, you know, the credibility of
the whole subject went down the toilet, and uh, and you just you
know, it's like you can't talk about them much anymore. And then then
over a period of time, you know, it just got very very I
mean more and more. You just couldn't talk about it because it became a
joke. I mean, you know, take a look at the tabloids and
what they did with it, and so they turned it into a joke,
and and then you know, you just couldn't even begin to discussion. And
then over a period of time, now you're able to come back and talk
about it, and you have that if you would, that top cover the
fact that there's actually senators and congressional people that are willing to listen and hear
this, and the fact that the Navy is and the Air Force are going
to be switching to I mean the Air Force. It's not that I don't
think announced, but they they've gone and make changes. And it's not like
that they hadn't been, you know, concerned before. It's just that it
didn't allow you know, the soldiers and stuff like that are hesitant to bring
it up, you know, and so it now allows them to be a
little bit more open. And by the way, I saw something and you
know, and and they can talk about it, not the feeling like that
they're going to be penalized if you would. And so that's that's gonna,
I think open up a lot. I hope we can do the same thing
for a commercial pilot, you know, and that that we now get more
openness if we could get that from the FAA and and the pilots people,
uh that, you know, and and and then we could also get it
from other agencies. And then a big question would be, well, who
would be the central body to be able to take a look at it and
to clust all that because it is a global phenomenon and it's we need to
be concerned about the threads that are over our you know, over our land
just as much as in the water. That's right. I'm hope I'm hoping
that we and if we see this as a threat, then that opens up
doors for where are where are these things going? What are they doing?
And so anyway, that's pretty much my thoughts. I've i've I think I
talked about this briefly last time you were on the show, and I still
kind of feel the same way. Is that I don't think that the Air
Force, whoever it is that is you know, really looking at this topic.
The Pentagon um U d D whoever it is. That's I don't think
anyone knows any really that much more than any of us out here looking at
it. Um. I still think it's a puzzle. And I think that's
the reason, the main reason the secrecy has been so long, because how
do you defend against something, you know, how do you take care of
the skies when you don't know what the heck it is? And you can't
assure the people that this is happening. But we don't know what it is,
you know, I mean, it wouldn't it wouldn't fly with you.
But yeah, we don't have any answers, and you know, and that's
pretty clear. All we know is that there are these crafts that are outperforming
anything that we've got, and that they seem to be within our airspace and
you know, uh and water space, you know, our waters as well,
and and that why wouldn't we be concerned about that type of thing,
especially knowing that other countries are doing the looking. And at the same time
that you know that, we're trying to say that it could be potentially we
don't since we don't know the origin, it could be up that somebody else
has made greater advancements than we have, and why wouldn't we want to know
that? And that and so that's I think that that's that's finally coming around,
and we don't have the answers, and neither does the belief that that
the government has the answers per se in my book. Um, but it
also doesn't preclude the fact that we aren't interested and haven't been interested in the
standpoint of looking at it from the propulsion systems and how do we build these
things? And if you think about us not paying attention to looking into anti
gravity or now that certainly we've done that over this time, that's what the
military would do. It would be a look in all the contracting firms and
the companies and locks and the boeings at being able to look into that.
I don't know if you saw that that the Navy came out that has a
couple of patents. Are you aware that that patent thing that's going on with
the United States? Okay, so there's a if you go look up Salvatorius
Fizar Paias, who is got a number of patents now right now that are
looking at building something on the scale of a tic TAC and it gets into
high energy electromagnetic field generators, it gets into using a vacuum states around the
object, it uses microwave transmitters. Uh, it's singing it up. You
know that. You know that, and it's creating it this kind of like
a vacuum. And the whole paper is built around the fact that you reduce
your inertial masks and your gravitational mask, and you can get to the point
where you could do that very kind of thing like the tic TAC and so
yeah, I mean, yeah exactly. I mean you can do every all
you can do basically the same kinds of things that the tick tack is doing.
And you know you're not going to suffer the inertial mask. You're going
to be reducing your your the weight, your weight, you're going to be
able to interact. And so just these kind of like patents that are out
there are in the Navy, and and uh, I've been reading them.
How put Off is also cited in in that with this polarizable vacuum approach to
general relativity. So I guess what I'm trying to get at is science is
progressing to the point where getting to the point where I think that we be
able to develop those kind of technologies. But you have to realize if these
objects have been doing this for a very very very long time, right,
and so we're going to start to see the potential for us to do that.
But it's still in the theoretical world. I mean, we don't I
don't know that we're going to hear from Lucky Martin that they've actually gone out
and maybe done this, or if they'll release it to us, or if
it's going to remain you know, a top secret to a type of an
evert. But I think that we are actually experimenting in these kinds of things,
and why wouldn't we be. I mean, we've had plenty of time
looking at this. Now, what about that that theory or that you were
talking about. Does that address Um, there's never any one reporting, you
know, the sound barrier being broken when this thing takes off. Does that
address that? It does address that? It sure does. Wow, it
does that address that? You know? And so so I mean, you
know, if I guess what I'm trying to get at it is if you
look at those five traits that lou Alesando talks about in his presentation, uh,
this type of an object could uh the Navy had put together is is
basically probably capable of doing that very thing. H and all those types of
things would be able to function in the water as much as in air and
as much as in space, so it's trans medium. It would be able
to uh basically maneuver seamlessly without the inertia issues. Uh, you know,
so you could have a conceivably a pilot on the inside of it. I
don't know how how that they would be shielded or whatever like that from the
the high energy electromagnetic field generators, but he even had in his diagram some
sort of shielding to be able to protect somebody. So I mean, that's
we're starting to get there, I think, you know, is what I'm
trying to get at, is that we'll be able to and then interesting enough
that these use microwave transmitters. And when I was doing the landing case that
I investigated back in the seventies where a seventy foot in diameter area was completely
baked two feet in the ground, you know, and all the week was
gone, there's puff weeat around the perimeter of the seventy foot diameter, there
is microwave radiation. Are they using microwave, you know, transmitters. Is
that what's involved here? And does that bake the soil like we're expecting.
So so you get what I'm saying right, it's it's it's it's a wonderful
time. It's exciting. And I think that sciences is we're going to more
and more progress to the point where we're going to be able to look at
and build some of these types of things. Wow. Um, the guest
I had last week, but it was more or less convinced that what we're
seeing as time travelers and um, you know, in a little tiny way
that could fit in that's development of something you know, way in the future
you know that we're actually seeing. But I thought it was an interesting theory
anyway. Um, But as far as you know, the thing that always
comes up when you talk to someone that is uh, you know, rightly
skeptic of how we are being visited, um, that it always comes up
with the vast distance that it is to the nearest you know, star system,
the nearest solar system four and a half years that they were. I
wish that they would have been in my conference because doctor Kevin canue on and
Devin, if you've ever heard him. His presentation was on relativistic interstallar travel,
and you find out that typically if you look and this is the interesting
thing I think that he did. He looked at the speech of UFO cases
that we have that we have the like, for example, the faa uh
case in a least, he looked at the and the head radar right,
So he looked at the speed there, and he looked at the speed of
the tiktak, and he looked at h speed from the Bethoon case. And
he put all these cases together and he said, these are the speeds that
these objects seem to be going. Okay, so let me project that out
and say can they go at relative speeds that we know of? And the
answer was yes, And so then he progresses into the point of talking about
okay, so now if you've got that and you could build a craft that
could do that, basically, how would you go out and to go into
the interstellar and how long would it check you to do that? And then
you get into the time tulation kind of thing where you know, as you
go towards the speed of light, time slows down for the people on board,
right, So it gets to the point where you could go to these
you know, these light light speeds if you let are near near the light
speed, and for them to go across the entire universe, it's only a
matter of months, all right, So it's in their time, and of
course for us back here, it's going to be like you know, thoughts
of years or whatever like that. So we keep hearing about the fact,
oh, it's going to take you too long, because we're keeping it from
the standpoint of our own perspective. What you have to do is you look
at it. If you get near the speed of light, it's going down
for them and for them, And he projected that and showed that these people
could literally be on the other side of the galaxy in a matter of a
day or something of that makes things got that time all planned out. And
then what if we were going to build and want to go and go to
other extrasolar planets and we believe that life is well, guess what you would
do. You would shoot off and you would become nomadic. You would go
with a whole bunch of other people with you and basically go to that location
because you know you're not going to be coming back. You're going to go
to that place and you're gonna basically inhabit it, right, and then you
go and shoot off again to other places from that maybe that point of reference,
knowing that you're not going to come back and stuff like that. So
eventually you can get to the point where it because you're only traveling just a
matter of months, you're basically there. You go and you settle down,
and you get scared away, and then you take off to other places.
In a very short order, you could be already achieved going to multiple places
that are inhabited or potential places where you could live. And and so what's
the problem here? You know, I mean, you get what I'm saying,
right, And so that was his point, and that it was a
very dramatic presentation. It did a lot of brief rame for a lot of
us because ultimately it's a situation where we, you know, we can do
that, We could conceivably do that if we had even just the capabilities of
a UFO, so that they've been demonstrating in those kinds of speech. That
said, for the free part of the show thing, thank you so much
for listening. We'll be back next week with Robbie Graham. And as you
probably have noticed, I've been leaving the full unedited shows and for several weeks
now. I wanted to give you all an idea of what the full show
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keep your eyes to the sky.