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Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado Mark Sadness got you down, 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:48,000 Hardwood knocks listeners Thankfully. Then there's still bet online dot Ag. They 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,640 remain kind enough to sponsor to this podcast and they have a great offer for 13 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,600 you. Visit our good friends and exclusive partner bet online dot Ag to take 14 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,479 advantage of the best bonuses in the business. Sign up for a re account 15 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,319 and make sure to use that promo code blue wire all one word for your 16 00:01:03,319 --> 00:01:08,519 fifty percent sign up. Bonus Sports will return at some point Hardwin Knox Listeners, 17 00:01:08,519 --> 00:01:11,200 and when they do, you'll be happy that you signed up at bet 18 00:01:11,239 --> 00:01:36,920 online, dot ag bet online, your online sportsbook experts. What's up, 19 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,200 Hardwoodnox Listeners. I am Dan for Valley, coming at you without my co 20 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,200 host Andy Bailey this time. I am, however, pleased to be joined 21 00:01:44,239 --> 00:01:49,040 by an og of the Hardwin Knox podcast. He is the founder of NBA 22 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,280 Math, our host site, and he is also a quality editor for Bleacher 23 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,319 Report, Adam Frammel. You can follow him on Twitter at Frammel zero nine. 24 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,359 It's always good to talk to him. We're obviously going to be talking 25 00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:07,040 about the MBA being the NBA season being suspended in response to Rudy Gobert testing 26 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,280 positive for the coronavirus, and we know now that Donovan Mitchell, his Utah 27 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,240 Jazz teammate, has tested positive as well, and that they are the only 28 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:20,520 two MBA players ten generally related employees whatever we know of so far that have 29 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,039 tested positive. Before we really get into this, though, we just both 30 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:28,560 wanted to make it clear that we've read stuff, We've tried to remain informed 31 00:02:28,599 --> 00:02:30,719 on this, but if we say something that is inaccurate. We're not trying 32 00:02:30,759 --> 00:02:35,919 to be egregious, We're not trying to be wrong on purpose, and we 33 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,360 didn't set out to do this podcast with the goal of being inflammatory. We 34 00:02:38,439 --> 00:02:44,159 just want to have an honest discussion about the NBA moving forward. And as 35 00:02:44,199 --> 00:02:46,520 a quick note for the future of this podcast, we might take the next 36 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,280 couple of days off after this podcast, but we will start rolling out some 37 00:02:51,319 --> 00:02:54,680 big picture content depending on if we get clarity on how long the league will 38 00:02:54,719 --> 00:03:00,520 be shut down. We'll do some singular deep dives into teams is futures, 39 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,599 so you will still be hearing from us. Do not fear about that. 40 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,639 Everyone, Just stay safe out there. However, we do have this discussion 41 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:14,080 now to partake in. I want to start Adam first with how are you 42 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,759 doing? You know, I've I've I've been better. This has been a 43 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:25,639 strange, strange week, especially as people who are very, very involved in 44 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:31,360 the sports industry which is just reacting to this pandemic and trying to figure out 45 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:36,879 where to go from here, and just more importantly as members of society and 46 00:03:36,919 --> 00:03:42,360 figuring out like how we're going to implement social distancing and other things that can 47 00:03:42,439 --> 00:03:46,599 that can help people and try to reduce the spread of the pandemic. So 48 00:03:46,599 --> 00:03:51,599 it's been an interesting week, but I'm always glad to talk to you same 49 00:03:51,639 --> 00:03:54,159 here, which was under better circumstances. I do wish that we could fire 50 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:59,000 twenty twenty into the sun. The past few years, I wish we could 51 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,520 find into the sun in general. Twenty twenty specifically has been bad thus far. 52 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:08,639 I'm curious to see what was your even in the lead up to the 53 00:04:08,719 --> 00:04:14,840 Rudy Gobert testing positive for the coronavirus. What was your feeling about what the 54 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,399 NBA had done to that point. Did you think that they were quick enough 55 00:04:16,439 --> 00:04:21,000 in even getting to the point where it seemed that fans weren't going to be 56 00:04:21,319 --> 00:04:26,639 at games knowing that Rudy Gobert had been tested earlier in the day, But 57 00:04:26,759 --> 00:04:30,800 before that thunder Jazz game, where are you surprised that the NBA didn't already 58 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,079 have that game canceled without knowing the results. And then ultimately, what was 59 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:39,279 just your feeling to see the news come in from both Woods and Shams that 60 00:04:39,399 --> 00:04:42,560 the NBA suspended its season, and it went from this, they're going to 61 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,519 be taking these extreme precautionary measures too. Oh, it's just done for now 62 00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:51,000 in the span of just a few hours. Yeah, I think it's hard 63 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:58,360 to feel that the NBA did enough initially, just because the response felt more 64 00:04:58,399 --> 00:05:02,879 reactive than proactive, which I think is a battle that is tough when there 65 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,319 there's so much money involved, and that ultimately has to be a consideration for 66 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:12,800 these corporations in large businesses. I wish it wasn't, but it does usually 67 00:05:13,079 --> 00:05:17,399 end up being that way, and it feels like more could have been done 68 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:23,800 sooner. But I'm glad that we ultimately got to the place that we needed 69 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:28,279 to be, even if it was a whirlwind of a couple of hours. 70 00:05:29,639 --> 00:05:31,680 I think you were working and I was working while all of this was unfolding, 71 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,000 and the timeline of events throughout the day was just ridiculous, you know, 72 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:41,199 starting out with the Ivy League canceling all of their spring sports and moving 73 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,519 on to the NCAA announcing that its biggest moneymaker, March Madness, was going 74 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,360 to be played without fans, and we're at the time of recording this, 75 00:05:47,399 --> 00:05:50,839 we're still not really sure if there's going to be a tournament. Conference tournaments 76 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:55,680 have been canceled, but the actual signature event itself has not and you know, 77 00:05:55,759 --> 00:05:59,439 just moving from there with the Gobert news and then it took what four 78 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,519 minutes that response to the actual suspension of the season, which had been rumored 79 00:06:03,519 --> 00:06:08,040 earlier as one of the possibilities that all of the teams except the New York 80 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,319 Knicks were talking about. And yeah, I mean just it's hard to it's 81 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:18,319 hard to process just the ridiculous breakneck speed of this news cycle and how important 82 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:23,160 and far reaching it was, and throughout and in the middle of it, 83 00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:26,680 Tom Hanks and his wife testing positive for Corona as well was seemed to slip 84 00:06:26,759 --> 00:06:30,800 right into that timeline. My guests would be, as we were recording this, 85 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,720 Kansas, the number one team in the country, just announced that they've 86 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,560 suspended all athletic events and traveling. Definitely, So my guests would be, 87 00:06:36,639 --> 00:06:42,000 the March Madness Tournament is definitely not going to happen this year. Oh, 88 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,439 there's no way, there's no way. I just can't. I don't even 89 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,240 that's not even something that you could really postpone. I don't think. Yeah, 90 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,040 I think there's just too much scheduling that goes into it, and you 91 00:06:50,079 --> 00:06:55,920 know, especially using arenas that NBA teams share and all that stuff there's it 92 00:06:56,319 --> 00:06:59,079 would just be too much of a scheduling nightmare. In my opinion, I 93 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:04,079 think the NCAA should extend like eligibility waivers to basically every player this season and 94 00:07:04,199 --> 00:07:08,560 let the players who are going to go pro still go pro. Let recruits 95 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:13,199 come in, but just give everyone another year, because otherwise you're stripping away 96 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,160 what everyone had been working towards. I don't know if they're going to do 97 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:23,079 that. I don't know how exactly the logistics of that would work. Maybe 98 00:07:23,079 --> 00:07:26,759 you only look at teams who would have made the tournament and do that, 99 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,560 or who are still alive in conference tournaments. Again, like even though logistics 100 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,959 of that are a nightmare, but it'll be interesting to see how that kind 101 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:41,160 of thing plays out too. Before I ask you about just the impact this 102 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,000 has on this NBA season and what the potential scenarios would be, where do 103 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,959 you sort of fall on the Rudy Gobert element of all this. The video 104 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:54,480 has made the rounds by now that he was touching all the reporters microphones that 105 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,720 were in front of him, after the NBA had instituted that I think was 106 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,519 a six to eight feet distance mandatory space between reporters and players, and they 107 00:08:03,519 --> 00:08:09,279 didn't have media in the locker rooms. He's been getting dragged on social media 108 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:15,199 and also in the one of woj's reports, he said that teammates are frustrated 109 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:20,319 with Gobert, saying he had shown a cavalier attitude towards the coronavirus by touching 110 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,959 people's things, which you would think happens normally in a locker room. Anyway, 111 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,800 I don't know if it was an excessive instance for him, But where 112 00:08:28,839 --> 00:08:31,799 do you sort of fall on that discussion that's being taken place, because I 113 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,440 think it's a discussion that needs to be had, as unpleasant as it is, 114 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,159 just because now he's so associated with this and he probably always will be. 115 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,519 But I think it's important that we don't conflate two different reactions to this. 116 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:52,200 On one hand, yes, Rudy Gobert was incredibly irresponsible and made took 117 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,799 to this whole situation way too lightly, when it was already clear that the 118 00:08:54,879 --> 00:09:00,200 NBA, even though those measures were insufficient and ultimately weren't going to make bunch 119 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:05,840 of a difference, just took even those precautions far too lightly and put himself, 120 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,080 in his teammates and reporters and fans and everyone who's connected to these people 121 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,320 at risk, and that was not good. He deserves a lot of criticism 122 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,120 for that. His teammates should be frustrated that he didn't take it more seriously. 123 00:09:16,159 --> 00:09:18,559 And you know, we don't know exactly what happened in the locker room, 124 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,720 if he was behaving as he normally would, or if he was doing 125 00:09:22,759 --> 00:09:26,200 what he did with the microphones and phones and like making a point to really 126 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,039 touch anything. I don't think we've seen that level of detail in the reporting. 127 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,000 But at the same time, like, I don't think it's fair if 128 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:39,080 his reputation is forever patient zero within the NBA and the person who's responsible for 129 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,399 the suspension of the season, that ultimately would have happened anyway. There was 130 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:50,159 going to there was inevitably going to be a player who tested positive for the 131 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:56,240 coronavirus and was going to spread throughout the league if if it wasn't shut down. 132 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:03,799 We don't know if he's responsible for infecting Donovan Mitchell, who has also 133 00:10:03,919 --> 00:10:09,120 tested positive. We don't know if Donovan Mitchell had it first. Because the 134 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:15,480 contagious period of this virus is five to fourteen days that are asymptomatic before you 135 00:10:15,519 --> 00:10:18,759 start showing symptoms. We have no idea what the timeline is on all of 136 00:10:18,759 --> 00:10:22,279 this, other than the fact that he was the first player who was reported 137 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,840 to test positive and four minutes after that Elite the season was suspended. So 138 00:10:28,919 --> 00:10:31,519 I think it's inevitable that he's going to be connected to it. I think 139 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:35,360 that's another that's a little bit unfair to him, and we can recognize that 140 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:41,120 while also criticizing his behavior. Yeah, that's definitely where I fall on it 141 00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:46,320 as well, just because I don't know unless he was going around cities and 142 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,279 licking random people, I don't know how he put any additional people at risk 143 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,440 who wouldn't have already been at risk had he contracted it in the first place. 144 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,000 And it's like you said, based on the incubation period for all this, 145 00:10:58,039 --> 00:11:01,039 we don't know who had at first, whether it was Mitchell or Gobert, 146 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,240 because it's really spotty on when the symptoms could show. I think I 147 00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:07,600 saw that ninety seven percent or more of the cases you're going to show the 148 00:11:07,639 --> 00:11:11,200 symptoms within eleven point five days, but that there are still like cases where 149 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,279 it goes as long as fourteen, and so I do think he deserves the 150 00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:18,799 criticism just because to treat it with that cavalier attitude. It's a microcosm of 151 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,799 how we're sort of in this mess in the first place, because we've known 152 00:11:22,879 --> 00:11:28,960 about the coronavirus since December at least, and there have not been preventative measures 153 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:33,759 being taken, and even now it's so hard to test people. And we 154 00:11:33,879 --> 00:11:37,919 talked about this before we were recording. It's just alarming that according to The 155 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,559 Atlantic, there have been seven thousand people tested in the US so far, 156 00:11:41,039 --> 00:11:46,360 and fifty eight of those are associated with a basketball team at this point. 157 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:52,320 And there's really a discrepancy in accessibility there. And I think you even had 158 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,120 I forget what the other number you said was before we started that over the 159 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,519 past week there was only like seventy seven people tested or something like that officially 160 00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:01,440 by the seat you see is what I think I saw there, right, 161 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,759 And so knowing that a majority of that comes from a basketball team, there's 162 00:12:05,159 --> 00:12:09,759 there's just so many different issues at play, and I just think the optics 163 00:12:09,799 --> 00:12:13,279 of the way that he was viewing it, where he didn't take it seriously. 164 00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:18,240 That's just asymptomatic of this larger issue of too many people weren't taking it 165 00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:20,919 seriously. And you know what myself included, like this is just something that, 166 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,679 yeah, I thought I was doing things like I thought I was being 167 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,080 definitely more I don't know how you say more clean, but like I'm probably 168 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,279 not going to go to the gym anymore. I believe it's cleaner cleaner. 169 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,639 Yeah, so that's how you say it. But like even at the gym, 170 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,720 trying to just wipe down the machines more. I would always would, 171 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,399 but I was just extra thorough and like things like that, trying to make 172 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,559 washing my hands more often throughout the day than I normally would. But something 173 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,879 like this is where it hits home, and that's where it starts to resonate 174 00:12:46,879 --> 00:12:50,279 with people. That's definitely I don't I don't want to say it's wrong, 175 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,399 but it is wrong. And so that it would take that long for people 176 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,279 to take it seriously. So I think that's where the criticism for him is 177 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,440 fair, and because he had that platform, because he did it so egregiously 178 00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:01,720 where you know, I don't know that the reporters that were on the road 179 00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:05,000 at the time, they at least didn't test positive. We've seen now on 180 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,039 Twitter, so him wiping his hands on those recorders, like, the degree 181 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,480 to which it actually had an impact is unknown, if it had any short 182 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,960 of impact. Ever see an untucked buttoned down, they look bad? Why 183 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,480 because they weren't meant to be worn that way. 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And I will since you ask me 201 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,639 whether I would, uh and so that that means this isn't coming unsolicited. 202 00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:43,840 It makes Adam a better human than I probably, But I tweeted out something. 203 00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:50,720 I tweeted out something about Rudy Gobert and the playoffs before we knew we 204 00:14:50,799 --> 00:14:54,200 had Corona, before I knew the season was suspended, and it was just 205 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,120 in poor taste. It was pointed out to me multiple times on Twitter. 206 00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:01,559 I quickly deleted it. I I've owned up to it. It sounds weird 207 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,039 to say that I'm not trying to competent myself there, but I do think 208 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,919 there was no place for the joke that I made. I've seen worse ones, 209 00:15:09,919 --> 00:15:13,080 but there is no place for someone who wants to hold themselves to a 210 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,440 higher morality bar for the joke that I made, But I do think that 211 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:22,320 there is a place to not make light of what's happening, but to highlight 212 00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:28,320 lighter aspects of what are going to be offshoots from this, where if you 213 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:33,639 want a joke that the Toronto Raptors are still going to be the defending champions 214 00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:39,440 when next season rolls around, but I'm also open to opinions to the contrary 215 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,000 that would say, you know what, even the latter's not really okay in 216 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,200 this time. And so I'm just knowing what social media has become and how 217 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:48,559 Rudy Gobert is getting dragged and knowing about I think the low hanging fruit jokes. 218 00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:52,519 I saw it multiple times where Rudy Gobert is really defensive player of the 219 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,200 Year because he stopped the entire league. That seems like something that would be 220 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,759 mostly innocuous to me. I think when you're getting into the specific individual, 221 00:16:00,759 --> 00:16:04,360 and again this is coming from someone who already made a joke in poor taste 222 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:11,080 about this specific individual, you need to think more about what this infers to 223 00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:15,360 the people that were ancillary impacted by this, where the reporters around him, 224 00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:18,840 the families and then his teammates, so maybe even something like that is crossing 225 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,799 a line. But I'm wondering if there's still room in your opinion to make 226 00:16:22,879 --> 00:16:27,759 light of aspects of this during what is not just for the NBA, but 227 00:16:27,919 --> 00:16:33,480 for our nation, for the entire world right now, a darker time. 228 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,000 Well, first and foremost for anyone who's listening to this, I think if 229 00:16:37,039 --> 00:16:38,879 you ever have to make an apology, take note of what Dan just did 230 00:16:38,879 --> 00:16:42,720 and not say like I apologize if you were offended, or any of those 231 00:16:42,799 --> 00:16:48,679 like caging the apologies, like just take responsibility for the actual action, right, 232 00:16:48,039 --> 00:16:51,840 or just don't make the accident in the first place. I mean, 233 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,799 that's better. I think that's unrealistic too. No, I think your examples 234 00:16:55,799 --> 00:17:00,200 are good ones, like maybe we don't make as many jokes about go Bear 235 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:06,519 right now because he is affected by this, because he affected other people during 236 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:12,039 this situation. And then more overarching ones like the Toronto Raptors are still champions 237 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:17,079 for the time being, like those seem more acceptable, And it's it's a 238 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:18,759 fine line. It's a tough one to find, it's a tough one to 239 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:29,599 define, But ultimately I think that as the world kind of descends into figuring 240 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,200 out what our responses are going to be to this pandemic and how we're going 241 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,880 to react, And we're seeing in so many countries that the idea of social 242 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,480 distancing and trying to flatten the curve are the most effective ways of combating the 243 00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:48,000 spread of the coronavirus. That you know, we need levity, and it 244 00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:53,440 needs to be appropriate humor. It needs to be humor that is going to 245 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:59,480 uplift rather than to bring down. But there is a place for it. 246 00:17:59,599 --> 00:18:02,720 I think one of the best examples I've seen in this is a joke that 247 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:07,000 has since been recycled multiple times that I've noticed on Twitter, social media and 248 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,319 a nutshell right right, And I don't remember who the first person I saw 249 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,839 to come out with this was. But now the World Health Organization said that 250 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:25,680 contrary to reports that our dogs cannot have the coronavirus, we cannot pass it 251 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:30,319 on to them, so any dogs that have been quarantined can be released, 252 00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:34,920 so effectively, who let the dogs out? Right? That's funny, it's 253 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:41,920 not offensive, it's not making light of the situation. It's not making people 254 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:49,480 have a negative reaction if they've been directly impacted by this situation. And I 255 00:18:49,519 --> 00:18:53,480 think that that that type of humor there is certainly a place for and that 256 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,319 it's something honestly we should strive for because we do need to be like working 257 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:06,440 to uplift each other while we're all figuring out what our personal and societal responses 258 00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:11,599 to this are. I think we should also note too that you know how 259 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,559 bad the takes can get during an NBA off season. Now we're entering an 260 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,359 unplanned off season for basically every single sport. Oh, I'm terrified the takes 261 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:23,960 are going to get bad. I'm terrified. I'm scared, horrified at what's 262 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,839 going to transpire, the actual impact on the league now though, so there's 263 00:19:30,599 --> 00:19:34,160 there's going to be an MBA Board of Governors meeting, I think slightly after 264 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,640 shortly after we record this, so it'll be outdated by then. However, 265 00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:42,839 it does seem, based on the reporting, that this is going to be 266 00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:47,640 the suspension for a minimum of two weeks, but in reality it's going to 267 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,279 end up going to be way longer. Yeah, I think, like we 268 00:19:49,319 --> 00:19:52,759 saw with the Chinese Basketball Association that it was what two and a half months 269 00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:56,799 because they shut down in early January and they're just starting to figure out how 270 00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:03,079 to come back now, right, And so if you're in whether we use 271 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,039 that as a baseline or not, what do you think is the optimal outcome 272 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,160 of all this for the NBA with regards specifically to this season. Is it 273 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,160 just they start the playoffs, maybe there's a single game play in tournament for 274 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,160 all the teams that we're competing for eight in the West. Is it they 275 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,480 just push everything back and they finish out the rest of the regular season, 276 00:20:25,839 --> 00:20:27,920 or at least a big portion of it. The playoffs start later, the 277 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,119 finals take place in August essentially, and then you move everything back from there, 278 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,599 the draft, summer league, free agency, all that stuff, including 279 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,079 the start of next season. Or do you think at this point there's a 280 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,400 chance this obviously isn't the ideal outcome, but just looking at the future and 281 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,160 the ramifications that pushing back to the time I would have on next year, 282 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,079 do you think it potentially could reach a point where it just makes the most 283 00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:56,880 sense to cancel this season completely, hit reset, and start all over next 284 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:06,200 year. Talk about a loaded question. I think the most important and generalized 285 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,279 plan should be that the NBA needs to realize that it is ultimately an entertainment 286 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:18,920 organization and that no matter how much it's going to impact the money making mechanisms 287 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:25,079 and the CBA and everything involved with the league, that basketball should not be 288 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:30,160 played until we are fully confident that this has been handled and neutralized and that 289 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,680 we are not endangering anybody by continuing play, even if that means no basketball 290 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,000 period until twenty twenty one. Now, in an ideal world where we get 291 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,960 this under control and something can happen and we're actually talking about the timeline of 292 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:47,720 these seasons, I think that the ideal outcome is still finishing out the regular 293 00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:52,759 season in delayed fashion, maybe even condensed fashion, but still giving players some 294 00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:56,119 sort of lead in into the playoffs, which maybe even shorten those I think 295 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:03,799 it's it's possibly better to condensed the playoffs and the regular season by having best 296 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:07,119 of three series or best of five series and maybe only having a best of 297 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:12,279 seven in the NBA Finals, and then on the back end, possibly treating 298 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:18,400 the twenty twenty twenty one season as essentially like a pseudo lockout shortened season. 299 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,000 You know, as we saw the last time there was an NBA lockout, 300 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,200 starting it in mid December and only playing what was at sixty six games. 301 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,759 I think ye off the top of my head. Yeah, I think that 302 00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:36,559 it's still not just necessary, but it should be mandatory to have some sort 303 00:22:36,599 --> 00:22:41,680 of extended off season, both for the mental and the physical benefit of the 304 00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:48,000 players, especially during what's been such a trying and tumultuous season from a mental 305 00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:52,359 standpoint, you know, dealing with a pandemic, dealing with the death of 306 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,599 an NBA icon, when when Kobe Bryant died in January. There's been a 307 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,680 lot for these players to process, and the league has placed such an emphasis 308 00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:03,440 on mental health priorities. You know, We've seen Kevin Love talk about it, 309 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:08,000 We've seen other players talk about it, that it would be hypocritical and 310 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:18,920 detrimental to attempt to force feed the NBA schedule into a rigid timeline when that's 311 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,559 not how we should be handling this. Yeah, it's and as we were, 312 00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:26,240 as you were actually speaking, the NBA announced that the league is going 313 00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:32,400 to be suspended for a minimum of thirty days for a month. So that's 314 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,319 what they're already looking at. We're in the middle of March, and so 315 00:23:34,319 --> 00:23:37,720 you're looking at mid April at the absolute earliest. And just like you said, 316 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,359 with the CBA, the Chinese Basketball Association, not the collective bargaining agreement 317 00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:45,920 that was a two and a half month delay, and so I would say 318 00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:51,240 even to hope that it's back in a month to six weeks is way too 319 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:56,519 optimistic. The one thing that might be an vote against finishing this season in 320 00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:00,720 some form, And I'm all for getting as much basketball as we still can 321 00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:07,400 once this pandemic is hopefully hopefully has passed. But if teams aren't going to 322 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,559 be allowed to practice during this time, like they're going to be under self 323 00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:12,200 quarantine, we can imagine for at least the next two weeks or something. 324 00:24:12,519 --> 00:24:18,240 But if you can't run practices and players have actually been out of games and 325 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,359 that setting for two months or something, don't you almost need a training camp 326 00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:26,839 then to come back from it? And do we really want to see what 327 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,200 the playoffs look like at that point at least the quality of it if guys 328 00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:33,559 really haven't played I don't want to say in a competitive setting, but at 329 00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:38,480 least in their team setting after what could be six, eight, twelve weeks 330 00:24:38,599 --> 00:24:42,839 or something wild like that. Yeah, I think that's a valid concern. 331 00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:52,039 I think that the determining factors should be less focused on quality of play and 332 00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:56,880 more on injury prevention. If guys aren't prepared to be back on the court 333 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:03,759 physically and are asked to jump back into it, and we have demonstrable evidence 334 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,200 that that's going to lead to increased injury risks, that's where things get concerning 335 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,319 to me. If we have to deal with with low quality play like okay, 336 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:18,279 like we still watch college basketball, right, true? True, If 337 00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:22,240 they brought back best of five as a result of this, there will be 338 00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:26,319 people that will just lash onto it and never let it go, because there 339 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,359 are strong advocates for having best of five in the first round. If they 340 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,240 have to go as short as best of three and then we end up seeing 341 00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:37,599 like the seventh you know, the seventh seeded Dallas Mavericks in the West end 342 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,000 up winning the title, they're going to be clamorings for that to be sort 343 00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:45,240 of a new format. This really, this really just is uncharted territory, 344 00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:49,039 and I think there are larger concerns in the macro. And the more important 345 00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:55,680 thing is that everyone realizes it's not necessarily about them during this just because if 346 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,759 you're younger, or you're in great shape, and you're even if you have 347 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:03,039 a coronavirus. You're not at imminent risk. The people you come into contact 348 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,680 could be, and that's where the concern needs to be. Now, all 349 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,039 of that aside, I understand that needs to be the priority. I really 350 00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:12,000 hope we get to see basketball again this year. Sports are going to come 351 00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:17,480 back regardless, but I hope that this is in the situation where the NBA 352 00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:22,480 nineteen twenty twenty season is is just done. I hope that they're still able 353 00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:26,440 to finish it out in some format. Yeah, I mean, selfishly from 354 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,480 my perspective, you know, like so much of what I do revolves around 355 00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:34,759 like historical record keeping and comparisons to past seasons and pass players and stuff, 356 00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:38,440 and I have no idea how to process like a season that only kind of 357 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,720 happened, and just from a precedent standpoint, like it would be nice just 358 00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:48,839 to have that sense of completion, but that in no way should take precedence 359 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:56,519 over any of the overarching concerns, whether for the NBA or society itself. 360 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,200 Did you have anything to add on this run or anything you wanted to hit 361 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:11,119 on with this, I think that that it just to reinforce what you just 362 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,480 said, Like, you know, it's I would I assume that we have 363 00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:23,559 a mix of people listening to these podcasts and if you are in a bracket 364 00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:27,559 that is more at risk, whether you're above sixty years old or you have 365 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,319 underlying conditions, like please take care of yourself. Please take it seriously. 366 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:37,440 This isn't just the flu. If you are healthy, like recognize that even 367 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,480 if you you feel like you yourself are not at risk, that by taking 368 00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:48,000 those chances, you are contributing to the spread of this pandemic, either to 369 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,440 people who are close to you or people you don't know. And the most 370 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,720 responsible thing that all of us can do is to take this as seriously as 371 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,200 possible and to make drastic changes to our own behavior in the m to make 372 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,319 sure that we don't have to make drastic ones in the long term. This 373 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,839 is I mean, this is bigger than basketball. I'm with everything you just 374 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,279 said, and it's it all sucks. In the interm where you're thinking about 375 00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:18,039 the workers who directly impacted by this, it does seem like at least some 376 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,720 owners will step up and take care of the arena employees. I hope the 377 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,200 ones who are worrying about you hourly salaries not don't have guaranteed wages, but 378 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,960 there are businesses that depend on the foot traffic coming in and out of the 379 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,119 arenas, and then there are just businesses in the larger economy that are really 380 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,039 going to suffer. In our business specifically, I think you and I are 381 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:41,440 definitely on the luckier end of the spectrum at Bleacher Report, but there are 382 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,240 freelancers out there that aren't going to be so lucky because they need access to 383 00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:48,359 do their job on a daily basis. So my thoughts are definitely with all 384 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,200 those people. And again it's still a matter of though. We do have 385 00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:56,119 to think about the bigger picture and take this seriously. So I agree with 386 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,480 everything you you just said there. I'm trying to figure out how best to 387 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:07,000 approach this one because we're about to veer into more political territory. But I 388 00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:15,720 think that it's been interesting to see how governmental coverage of this and sports coverage 389 00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:22,720 of this has differed, And the timeline was especially interesting. Throughout Wednesday afternoon 390 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:30,519 and night, we had President Trump gave a press conference where certain policies were 391 00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:40,519 proposed given I'm not really sure, restricting travel to Europe, allowing free testing 392 00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:45,960 and treatment, and those were subsequently walked back or modified in the immediate aftermath. 393 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:51,839 But it was interesting how right after that happened was when Gobert tested positive 394 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,559 and when the NBA suspended and really started to take the lead as other sports 395 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:02,079 organizations in this country and around the world I've done, And for me, 396 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:10,400 it was an interesting look at both how unprepared we are as a country for 397 00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:18,519 the reaction to a pandemic like this and how interwoven sports are into our culture 398 00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:23,279 and our society. Just that these leagues, which are ultimately independent operations, 399 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:33,200 are making policy that are impacting so many people and are pushing American citizens and 400 00:30:33,599 --> 00:30:38,720 citizens around the world to realize if they hadn't already the gravity of what we're 401 00:30:38,759 --> 00:30:47,240 dealing with. I think it's unfortunate that so many people took this lightly, 402 00:30:47,319 --> 00:30:52,440 weren't taking as many precautions as they should, weren't practicing these ideas of social 403 00:30:52,480 --> 00:31:00,640 distancing until Tom Hanks and Rita Hanks tested positive for coronavirus, until are taken 404 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:06,160 away and that outlet that we have in the entertainment industry is no longer there, 405 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,440 and that that's what it takes for us to realize what we should be 406 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:17,400 doing and how an independent organization is taking more drastic steps than a government that 407 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,200 seems more interested in suppressing the number of cases and treating people like numbers than 408 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:29,240 actually doing what's necessary to combat this. I'm not really sure like what I'm 409 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,920 looking for as a follow up here, or if I'm just talking to talk, 410 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,039 but it was. It was. That was one of my biggest takeaways 411 00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:40,319 from the day, was just figuring out how to process all of that and 412 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,000 wrap my head around just these differences that we're seeing, right, and also 413 00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:52,319 the variance in perception where it seems like people are expecting the sports leagues and 414 00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:56,559 holding them more accountable than they actually are the government, which is just certainly 415 00:31:56,599 --> 00:31:59,279 a problem. And I'd alluded to this before, but I was reading a 416 00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:01,640 New York Times are where I believe there was a lab in Seattle that was 417 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:07,920 as early as December. They were trying to get approval from just rolling out 418 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,160 preventive measures and being able to test people, and they just kept being rebuffed 419 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,799 at every turn until not even until recently, but even up to Wednesday, 420 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,599 when all this stuff happens in the NBA. And I think you're absolutely right 421 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:25,359 that it sucks that it takes more visible people being impacted for it to hit 422 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,400 home for some people and even including myself. But then there's also a lack 423 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:35,240 of exposure to the issue itself because it's not being handled properly by the government 424 00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:40,160 or being made a priority that it should have been. There's no reason why 425 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:45,039 there's always going to be an accessibility problem for these tests, but the extent 426 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,240 to which it's an issue still is just absolutely egregious. Knowing where in South 427 00:32:50,279 --> 00:32:53,519 Korea they can test ten thousand people a day and we've only had around seven 428 00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:59,200 thousand people. Again numbers according to the Atlantic tested in the United States after 429 00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:00,880 all this has happen, and so for that number is obviously going to go 430 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,559 up, but that then we'll have to look at the discrepancy between who actually 431 00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:08,480 has access to that. It's going to be the wealthy as opposed to the 432 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,319 the everyday people, and so that's just something that's really disturbing. And then 433 00:33:13,319 --> 00:33:16,640 there's also, of course the uh, the issue of partisanship that still comes 434 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:22,279 up during this where you know, is it because one party is proposing these 435 00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:28,240 policies that they're getting walked back by the other, because because you're still dealing 436 00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:32,839 with the stupid political agendas and it's I don't even know what the word would 437 00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:38,480 be here. You can't expect everyone to just coalace into just one like one 438 00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:43,200 view or just that's too ideal, is I guess what I'm saying that what 439 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,640 we want is probably too ideal. But the fact that we're so far away 440 00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:52,559 from what you just outlined being in that spot is unsettling Times Infinity. Yeah, 441 00:33:52,880 --> 00:34:00,640 I think that it's it's it's revealed a lot. It's it's made the 442 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:08,519 income disparity very clear. But I do hope that just the loss of such 443 00:34:08,599 --> 00:34:16,760 an integral part of our daily entertainment in sports is going to push for further 444 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:22,039 change, you know, and and and really unity at a time where polarization 445 00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:27,679 has become the norm. You know. We're still seeing that that Mitch McConnell 446 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,639 is shutting down congressional response until after a recess, which doesn't make sense when 447 00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:38,039 this is such a rapidly evolving pandemic. We're seeing that the House Leader McCarthy 448 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:45,280 is is trying to shut down a Democrat proposed bill that would allow for sick 449 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,639 leave, that would allow for for testing. And we just need to see 450 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:53,840 more people coming together and and trying to figure out, like what's the best 451 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,960 way that we can we can do all of this together, because ultimately, 452 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,079 like that's what's going to need to happen. There was one positive development earlier 453 00:35:02,119 --> 00:35:07,800 today where Californian and Representative Katie Porter really pushed the head of the CDC to 454 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:14,599 get a commitment that all Americans will be able to get tests for coronavirus that 455 00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:20,800 are covered. And that's fantastic. But this shouldn't be something that is a 456 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,440 bar a part as an issue that one side is pushing for that the other 457 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:30,599 side is pushing back against it. It is not, It does not need 458 00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:36,199 to be a referendum on Trump's leadership, and in my opinion, wholly lacking 459 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,800 response because ultimately, like this is bigger than that. We have estimates that 460 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,960 over one hundred million people could be impacted by this, and those might be 461 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:52,480 conservative impacts, a conservative estimates rather, and it's we need to, if 462 00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:59,719 nothing else, take the the extent to which these sports leagues are reacting and 463 00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:04,800 extend that to all branches. Yeah, I'm with you every step of the 464 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,920 way, and I think as you sort of point out the beginning of that 465 00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:10,840 this is at least proof if nothing else that sports really do matter, and 466 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,559 so if this maybe is the impetus for there to be more of a of 467 00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:21,440 a sweeping change and general action, meaningful action, then at least there's that 468 00:36:21,559 --> 00:36:24,480 to take away from it. But I agree with everything you hit on right 469 00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:28,719 there, Adam, Thank you so much for coming on. It's always a 470 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,440 joy to talk to you, even when it's under less than ideal circumstances. 471 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:36,199 If you guys aren't following him on Twitter, he's at FRAML zero nine, 472 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,639 be sure to follow MBA Math on Twitter at MBA Underscore Math. Shout out 473 00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:44,679 to our sponsor for this podcast, bet online dot Ag. Be sure to 474 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,920 use the promo code Blue Wire that you received at the beginning of the pod. 475 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,360 Until next time, I leave everybody with the shout out too, Beno 476 00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:57,880 Udri and Kyle Anderson and with this message of stay safe and Andy and I 477 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,679 and this podcast will continue to be pumping out content while the NBA remains in 478 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:12,480 lurch. Take care for the one standing guard, for the eagle eyed, 479 00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:16,119 for the Knights in shining Armor, and for all those who support them. 480 00:37:16,199 --> 00:37:22,639 We are Granger, your experienced safety partner, offering supplies and solutions for every 481 00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:28,920 industry committed to helping keep your facilities safe and your people safer. 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