1 00:00:19,399 --> 00:00:23,839 And we're back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jasinski, 2 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,519 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the 3 00:00:26,519 --> 00:00:30,239 show at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr 4 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,840 LST. Make sure to subscribe for every download your podcasts and to the premium 5 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,960 version of our website as well. I just want to thank everyone for sending 6 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000 so many lovely emails in the last couple of weeks. I don't know what 7 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,679 shook it loose. I think maybe it was that last podcast we did with 8 00:00:45,679 --> 00:00:51,200 Bedford just responding to different listener messages, But I just want to thank everyone 9 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,679 some really kind reviews on iTunes or Apple podcasts. You know, if you 10 00:00:55,799 --> 00:00:59,200 if you have a review to leave, feel more than welcome to do that. 11 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:00,880 If you have an email to send again, it's just radio at the 12 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,920 Federalist dot com. We always appreciate it. Thank you so much. I'm 13 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:11,599 joined today by three of my colleagues, Vida Deffi, Alfonso el Purnell, 14 00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:15,840 and Jordan boyd All. I'm realizing right now, A all young women, 15 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,640 b A all young married women. I'm trying to figure out which one of 16 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,359 you was oldest when you got married. I don't think any of you was 17 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:32,400 over like twenty four, am I wrong? H And by the way, 18 00:01:32,519 --> 00:01:36,000 married each for more than a year. They've all been married for more than 19 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,480 a year. And they've all been married since they were roughly like twenty two, 20 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,959 twenty three something like that. So first of all, congratulations to all 21 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,239 of you. And secondly, I want to ask actually a little bit more, 22 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,000 a little bit more about your age. We're going to get into that 23 00:01:49,079 --> 00:01:53,439 because as I was thinking, I know that's very impolite for ladies. But 24 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:59,040 as I was thinking about how we should mark the anniversary of the September eleventh 25 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,040 attacks this year, we usually try to do a podcast on the anniversary, 26 00:02:02,079 --> 00:02:06,000 and as I was thinking about how to mark the occasion this year, I 27 00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:09,599 was thinking, you know, we have this young staff, younger than me 28 00:02:09,719 --> 00:02:13,879 now, not that I'm old, but younger than me now, and to 29 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,199 the point where maybe a lot of you don't remember nine to eleven, and 30 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,520 I wanted to do kind of a round table conversation. It just happened that 31 00:02:20,599 --> 00:02:25,240 it turned into all female because our colleagues Sean and Sam are traveling as we're 32 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:31,120 recording this. But basically to check in and hear what nine to eleven means 33 00:02:31,159 --> 00:02:37,319 to people who maybe don't necessarily recommend remember it. So on that note, 34 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,840 first, I'll say, we're all very, very lucky to have not lost 35 00:02:42,879 --> 00:02:46,680 anyone, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong lost anyone on nine 36 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:53,439 to eleven directly, although I know it's affected just about every single American over 37 00:02:53,479 --> 00:02:58,479 the decades in different ways, but our hearts, our prayers are with everybody 38 00:02:58,479 --> 00:03:02,479 who did today. I can't imagine how difficult this day is every single year 39 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,879 for folks in that situation. Now, I want to ask each of you. 40 00:03:07,759 --> 00:03:13,120 I'll start with you, L. Purnell, tell us what year you 41 00:03:13,159 --> 00:03:15,159 were born? How old you were on nine to eleven? How old? 42 00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:20,680 L So? I was born in ninety nine, so I would have been 43 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:25,120 three seven early birthday? Okay, if you'd know? What about you? 44 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:32,719 I was also born in ninety nine, but in October so so later. 45 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,560 So I don't know why that means I'm one or two? Two? I 46 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,000 guess if EL was Yeah, I was two. No, I can't remember 47 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,879 I was one. L was two, right, okay, Jordan, what 48 00:03:44,919 --> 00:03:49,080 about you? Also ninety nine so two? Wow? Okay? So all 49 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,319 of you were born in nineteen ninety nine, so barely in the last century, 50 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,800 barely in the last millennium. That's really interesting. All I'm going to 51 00:03:57,879 --> 00:04:01,000 start with you again. Do you have any memory if you were too I'm 52 00:04:01,039 --> 00:04:03,159 sure the answer to this is no. But do you have any memory of 53 00:04:03,199 --> 00:04:08,080 nine to eleven? No, I don't. My mom has told me that 54 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,039 when the news broke, I was she was like with me running errands, 55 00:04:13,039 --> 00:04:15,439 and we were at the feed store getting a feed for our horses. But 56 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,759 I don't have a personal memory of that. And you were in Florida. 57 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:25,000 Yeah, that's right, Okay, Avida, what about you? I thought 58 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,000 that I had a personal memory of nine to eleven and they're being like a 59 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,240 lot of commotion, But I don't think that's true. I now, looking 60 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,120 back on it, it seems more likely that it was Hurricane Katrina, which 61 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:40,720 was a long time later. And but my grandmother did say because I was 62 00:04:40,759 --> 00:04:46,160 with her when nine to eleven happened, that afterward George Bush was gave a 63 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,240 speech and that I was very perceptive because I said, George Bush looks mad 64 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,000 at one year old, and that was That's about the extent of my nine 65 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,800 to eleven commentary. At one, I was going to say, already an 66 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,959 advanced political commentator, what about you, Jordan, Yeah, I would say 67 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:08,199 I don't necessarily think I can link my memories of nine to eleven two the 68 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,560 year it happened, but certainly in years after, you know, seeing the 69 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,240 footage play on TV screens and whatever. It was a conversation that my parents 70 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,199 weren't afraid to have with me and my siblings, even at such a young 71 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:24,000 age in the home. So it was something that we certainly learned about early 72 00:05:24,079 --> 00:05:27,399 and grew up talking about a lot. Yeah, let's stick with that. 73 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,959 In fact, that's where I was going to go next. I want to 74 00:05:30,439 --> 00:05:33,600 know when you guys sort of became aware of nine to eleven, when you 75 00:05:33,639 --> 00:05:38,360 sort of remember This is going to be very difficult to pinpoint, and as 76 00:05:38,399 --> 00:05:41,040 a Vita, I think alluded to memory is such a weird thing. But 77 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,480 when you guys became aware of what happened in nine to eleven and sort of 78 00:05:45,519 --> 00:05:48,240 what your impression of it was as a young person who grew up in these 79 00:05:48,319 --> 00:05:57,240 years where American culture was incredibly influenced by nine to eleven, it is hard 80 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:02,519 to even sort of go back in time, and you think about exactly how 81 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,240 every single day, you know, American culture was colored shaped by what happened 82 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,879 on September eleventh, two thousand and one. And this is as you guys 83 00:06:10,879 --> 00:06:15,720 are coming of age. So you don't have memories exactly of two thousand and 84 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,560 one, but I'm sure you have memories of two thousand and three, two 85 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,120 thousand and four, two thousand and five, six, seven, eight that 86 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:25,000 are formative because these are the years. This is the America that was shaping 87 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,920 you into the adults you are today. So Jordan, stick with me on 88 00:06:28,959 --> 00:06:32,040 that flesh out a little bit more about how you became aware of nine to 89 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,279 eleven. Yeah. Well, like I said, I mean, parents were 90 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,600 not afraid to talk about it at the time or around At the time, 91 00:06:39,639 --> 00:06:42,879 they were running a college ministry with our church, and one of the things 92 00:06:42,879 --> 00:06:46,319 that came up very early in their conversations with college students as well as with 93 00:06:46,399 --> 00:06:50,600 us hanging around, was all these young men who wanted to run an enlist, 94 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,319 to fight for their country and to kind of retaliate. I mean, 95 00:06:55,319 --> 00:06:59,199 there was a huge spirit of fear at the initial onset of this, but 96 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,160 as the years went on and there was a growing chorus of people who said, 97 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,079 we want to hold whoever did this accountable. And I think you know 98 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:11,639 that ushered in what we now know is this expansive security state that's long outlived 99 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,759 what the initial threat was, but it definitely pervaded regular normal life. I 100 00:07:16,759 --> 00:07:20,720 mean, my parents had four young children under four around that time, and 101 00:07:20,759 --> 00:07:27,279 so personal safety was taught priority. And even though the Twin Towers were far 102 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,879 from where we were in Texas, there were things that we did in daily 103 00:07:30,959 --> 00:07:34,319 life that were justified by well, anything could happen, you know, like 104 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,920 learning how to lock doors and protect your home or protect your family. That 105 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,680 was a very strong priority in those young years. That is very very interesting, 106 00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:47,759 especially the military aspect, especially in Texas. I know, I'll mentioned 107 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,920 she was in Florida and Georan just mentioned Texas. If you'da was in Wisconsin. 108 00:07:53,279 --> 00:07:57,240 So if you don't all turn to you with the same question. Basically, 109 00:07:57,319 --> 00:08:01,279 when you became aware of nine to eleven and and how you know it, 110 00:08:01,959 --> 00:08:07,000 you maybe sensed it was affecting the America you grew up in. Yeah, 111 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,759 when I was little, like in elementary school and even middle school, 112 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:16,600 I remember every year we always did something to remember nine to eleven, whether 113 00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:20,560 we had a little lesson about it. I think one year we made cards 114 00:08:20,639 --> 00:08:24,480 and sent them to first responders. That would have been when I was like 115 00:08:24,639 --> 00:08:28,079 really little, and I don't even know, I didn't even know, but 116 00:08:28,079 --> 00:08:31,960 maybe it was like an elementary school program. I don't remember exactly what it 117 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:37,200 was about, but there was definitely a remembrance of it. And then I 118 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:43,240 remember starting in high school, suddenly we like we stopped talking about it. 119 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:48,240 Even on the date of nine to eleven. There was no there was no 120 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,879 lesson plans around it, there was no discussion of it. It sort of 121 00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:58,519 started to drop off. And I remember asking my history teacher if if it 122 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,559 was just a thing of high school that we stopped talking about it, or 123 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:09,080 if this was, you know, because we're slow, it's it's becoming more 124 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,000 and more of a distant memory in American history. And he said, it's 125 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,759 becoming more and more of a distant memory. And my siblings who are who 126 00:09:16,759 --> 00:09:22,840 are younger than me, the youngest of my siblings is three now say that 127 00:09:22,919 --> 00:09:26,039 they don't do anything for it, which is which is really interesting to think 128 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,759 about because it was such an imprint on so many people's minds and It certainly 129 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,120 wasn't the immediate aftermath of it, and now is where, you know, 130 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,919 over two decades out from it, it's less and less of a of an 131 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:46,440 impact on students. M Oh, how about you. Yeah, I don't 132 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:52,879 remember like one specific moment that I was first made aware of what had happened, 133 00:09:52,759 --> 00:09:56,159 But I think all of us came of age as the War on Terror 134 00:09:58,519 --> 00:10:01,519 was progressing and we had a significant military presence in the Middle East and that 135 00:10:01,799 --> 00:10:05,279 was ongoing, and so I mean, growing up, it kind of it 136 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:11,159 seemed like like this big event that was still very much connected to and part 137 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,440 of something that was still going on. And then you know, now we've 138 00:10:16,759 --> 00:10:20,159 we have moved out of Afghanistan, we have decreased our presence over there, 139 00:10:20,159 --> 00:10:24,799 and so we're kind of in a different moment to look back on that multidecade 140 00:10:24,039 --> 00:10:30,840 period. But it is definitely different reflecting on it as an adult and specifically 141 00:10:30,879 --> 00:10:33,120 as a reporter and thinking like, oh, well, if that were to 142 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,240 happen, you know, if something like that were to happen today, thinking 143 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,559 about it through the lens of how would I be covering it? And you 144 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:45,120 know what the way that that information would be We spread the way you'd find 145 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,120 out today. It puts it a different lens on it than when you just 146 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,159 grow up knowing about it. Yeah, that's an interesting point. And I 147 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,639 want to say, you know, I like Evita. I was in Wisconsin, 148 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,399 and one thing I learned when I moved to the East Coast for college. 149 00:10:58,639 --> 00:11:03,039 So I moved to the East Coast for college on the tenth anniversary almost 150 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,840 you know, within a couple of weeks of the tenth anniversary of nine to 151 00:11:05,879 --> 00:11:11,840 eleven. So that was twelve twelve years ago. Now it was. I 152 00:11:11,879 --> 00:11:18,279 moved in August of twenty eleven, and the tenth anniversary, which George Washington 153 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:24,480 University where I went, marked with a day of service. So on that 154 00:11:24,639 --> 00:11:35,679 anniversary I realized how just common these horrific traumatic memories of nine to eleven were 155 00:11:35,039 --> 00:11:43,960 among my mostly East Coast peers. So as I from Wisconsin moved to Washington, 156 00:11:43,039 --> 00:11:46,159 DC, and I know a lot of our listeners are probably in DC 157 00:11:46,279 --> 00:11:50,799 in New York, and your memories are are very, very different. And 158 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:56,879 that's not too of course diminish the way people all over the country were so 159 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:01,159 deeply affected by this, but it is to say it was a real wake 160 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:07,120 up call for me to realize, just if you live with maybe you're in 161 00:12:07,159 --> 00:12:11,639 Connecticut, maybe you're in New Jersey, maybe you're in you know, your 162 00:12:11,919 --> 00:12:18,200 upstate New York, maybe you're in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, maybe you're in Northern 163 00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:22,240 Virginia, in Maryland, not just in DC proper, and of course, 164 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,519 you know, maybe not just in the vicinity of the Pentagon in Northern Virginia. 165 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,159 But how close so many of those people were to you know, having 166 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,000 these traumatic scenes in their own schools when they were young, when they were 167 00:12:35,039 --> 00:12:39,679 my age, so I was Jesus nine in third grade. That was a 168 00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:43,200 very different day for them. I have a I have a very distinct memory 169 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:48,039 of that day. But for them it was something at a completely other level, 170 00:12:48,159 --> 00:12:50,840 whether or not and many of them did, but whether or not they 171 00:12:50,919 --> 00:12:56,399 knew somebody who was killed, whether or not they knew somebody somebody very close 172 00:12:56,639 --> 00:13:01,600 who had a loved one killed the scene, as you can imagine, in 173 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,320 my friends schools and many of yours, if you're listening your schools in Connecticut, 174 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:11,879 New Jersey, I mean, the trauma is just so much more common 175 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,720 and so much more intense for people in different parts of the country. I'll 176 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,519 toss that to you, guys, do you have any stories of people you've 177 00:13:20,519 --> 00:13:26,200 met or people stories that have just really stuck with you over the last you 178 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,320 know, a couple of decades as you've been coming of age and you've you've 179 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:33,120 heard stories from nine to eleven. Has anything just really stuck with any of 180 00:13:33,159 --> 00:13:37,919 you? I think most of when my parents talked about it growing up, 181 00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:39,360 it was a lot of and you know, part of this was I was 182 00:13:39,399 --> 00:13:45,159 a kid. I didn't have like immediate internet access for most of my childhood, 183 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:48,000 you know, until I was older, so a lot of what I 184 00:13:48,039 --> 00:13:52,759 was hearing about it was my ear. It was you know, my parents 185 00:13:52,799 --> 00:14:00,639 telling me about it, and so it was definitely a different way of ingesting 186 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:05,360 those stories. In college, I had the opportunity to go to the museum, 187 00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:09,440 which I don't think is there anymore in DC, but they had these 188 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:16,840 recently closed with them the left. Yeah, they had the like iron beams 189 00:14:16,879 --> 00:14:24,279 I guess from from the towers and the videos of people either you know, 190 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:30,720 tragically jumping out of the towers or people in the streets with the clouds of 191 00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:35,799 smoke. And so that was absolutely a different kind of like experiencing the storytelling 192 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:41,080 in a new way than you know. 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No, that's super interesting, and that's that's 209 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,679 basically exactly what I'm getting at here. You know what of the the imagery 210 00:16:02,919 --> 00:16:06,480 or of these stories. I mean many people on nine to eleven will share 211 00:16:06,519 --> 00:16:11,360 the story of the Falling Man, for instance, the picture of the Falling 212 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,879 Man, the story of the Falling Man, or the story of Todd beam 213 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:22,279 Er. There's just some of these incredible stories that came out of that day, 214 00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:26,720 inspiring stories, got wrenching stories, I mean literally hundreds and hundreds of 215 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:32,480 them. But Avida and Jordan, even if it is just the imagery seeing 216 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,919 the beams somewhere like the Newseum that exhibit was, I just used the word 217 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,960 got wrenching. It's exactly what it was. Or maybe you've been to New 218 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:45,399 York and you've seen ground zero. What's stuck with you? So I have 219 00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:49,279 not been to ground zero before, but something that sort of has begun to 220 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:55,919 go kind of viral over the last few years on TikTok Are and Emily doesn't 221 00:16:55,919 --> 00:16:59,559 like that. I have TikTok I have TikTok. But some of the things 222 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,440 that have gone viral are the voicemails that people have left to their loved ones, 223 00:17:03,559 --> 00:17:08,359 whether it's like a married couple or a mother calling her son, or 224 00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:17,359 people calling uh the nine one one helpline, And I mean they are heart 225 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:22,480 wrenching voicemails of people telling people that they love them, that these are their 226 00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:25,319 last moments, saying, you know, I think I'm going to die as 227 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,279 as they're they're breathing in all of the fumes or or things are falling down 228 00:17:30,319 --> 00:17:36,519 around them. I mean, they're harrowing, horrifying phone calls that really make 229 00:17:36,599 --> 00:17:40,960 you, uh, you know, just just feel like you're in the moment 230 00:17:41,079 --> 00:17:44,519 and it's like I said, it's horrifying. But another thing that also I 231 00:17:44,559 --> 00:17:51,079 think has impacted me are the images of patriotism afterward. I think, especially 232 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:56,640 during twenty twenty, where it felt like everyone was so divided in our country, 233 00:17:56,799 --> 00:18:00,759 and whether it was over COVID or it was you know, on January 234 00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:08,599 six or BLM, and you had these just these displays of this country feeling 235 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,640 like it was being torn apart. And then you look at the images and 236 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:17,960 the immediate aftermath of nine to eleven where you saw people come together in a 237 00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:23,119 really beautiful way. And it's weird, but I actually felt almost nostalgic for 238 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,200 this immediate aftermath of nine to eleven that I never was I was too young 239 00:18:27,319 --> 00:18:33,519 to experience that felt so cohesive and beautiful as as our country came together in 240 00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:41,039 tragedy, juxtaposed with with now where it just feels so divided. Kind of 241 00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:45,920 jumped in on that comparison too, just thinking about it. Yeah, through 242 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,359 the lens of the way that people dealt with such a reminder of mortality, 243 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:56,039 because you see, like obviously nine to eleven was this huge event, forcing 244 00:18:56,079 --> 00:18:59,160 people to grapple with you know, what would I have done? How would 245 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,599 I sounded if I was making those phone calls, how would I've reacted? 246 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:08,920 And you also saw people grappling with their mortality with COVID, But like Avida 247 00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:12,599 said that the reactions were very different in the way that people kind of responded 248 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:22,640 to that reminder that life is brief. There really is a strong contrast. 249 00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:27,559 I'll turn this to you, Jordan, but we'll first say I'm glad you 250 00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:30,839 picked up that point now, because I was going to jump in and say 251 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:37,119 what Avida said really gave me chills, and you kind of confirmed that it 252 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:45,319 was similar for you, because it's quite interesting to me that for both of 253 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:51,480 you looking at a pandemic that you know affected your lives at a very young 254 00:19:51,519 --> 00:19:56,200 age, very formative age. Looking at January sixth, and most of you 255 00:19:56,279 --> 00:20:03,759 were in journalism at that time as well. To have the sense in both 256 00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:08,160 of your minds that something is very, very different from what you've learned and 257 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:14,720 absorbed about the aftermath of nine to eleven really did give me chills, because 258 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,799 there was, my goodness, the America in the days after nine to eleven 259 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:25,200 was really the best of our country. And I don't think we've experienced anything 260 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:30,160 like it since, and I don't think anybody has the I don't think anybody 261 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,799 has the sense that if something God forbid on a similar scale were to happen 262 00:20:34,839 --> 00:20:40,640 again, that we would respond in such a way. What do you think, 263 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:47,480 Jordan, Yeah, I think that's something that I think of all probably 264 00:20:47,519 --> 00:20:49,920 a way too often. Is I feel like the nation, especially in the 265 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,480 last decade, has been in this fight or flight mode, and if something 266 00:20:55,519 --> 00:20:59,920 else like you said happened, I mean, I think people would be baracky 267 00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:02,480 it up in their homes with rifles. And that was one of the things 268 00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:04,400 when I was old enough to go out on my own and do research about 269 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,920 nine to eleven and watch the clips. I didn't want to see the main 270 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,200 clips that they showed over and over on national news. I wanted to see, 271 00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:18,279 like someone who happened to have a digital camera or a film camera at 272 00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:23,440 work that day and captured those just candid, intimate moments between co workers and 273 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,960 people fleeing and pulled up all of that footage or what I could find of 274 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:32,160 it, and just watched it and watched how these strangers came together and prayed 275 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,519 or you called family members or whatever, and that kind of unity. I've 276 00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:42,720 just never seen that really ever anywhere in life or in American life, and 277 00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:48,279 so it's very interesting. And one of my favorite things to do is to 278 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,799 go back and read the really famous New Yorker piece The Real Heroes Are Dead, 279 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:59,640 and it's about Rick Rescorla, who helped evacuate the South Tower and ended 280 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,400 up dying in the process, and just his relationship with his wife and all 281 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,920 of that, and thinking about those moments and how profoundly people made such a 282 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,640 quick moral decision. It's just insane. It's so difficult to comprehend. And 283 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,640 you can walk around and ask anyone in your family or anyone who was above 284 00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:23,079 probably the age of five around that time, and they get this like distant 285 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,599 look in their eyes as they recount what was going on, and the insurmountable 286 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:34,279 fear that led to everything that we know now as adults is just such an 287 00:22:34,279 --> 00:22:40,200 interesting thing to trace back. I mean in a way that I just I 288 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,920 don't even know how to explain it. You know, we went from being 289 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:48,200 such a unified country in those few months after that to now like having a 290 00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:55,200 romanticized security state where like surveillance is put above the unity of the American people, 291 00:22:55,319 --> 00:22:57,359 and seeing that all play out in the curn events that, like else 292 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:02,920 said, we're covering right now is just crazy. And how rapidly that occurred 293 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,319 is crazy. You know, that's a really interesting point. I want to 294 00:23:07,319 --> 00:23:11,880 toss that back to everyone, because a lot of what you guys do as 295 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:18,319 journalists at the Federalist is cover the excesses of the security state, which were 296 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,200 in no small part supported by Republicans, supported by in many cases of the 297 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,279 conservative movement. Of course, as with anything, there was descent among the 298 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:33,160 conservative ranks about certain things like the NSA and all of the powers given to 299 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,160 DHS, and the after bath of nine to eleven, which we see being 300 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,480 weaponized in ways that we're you know, perhaps predictable, but somewhat unfathomable in 301 00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:48,119 this the days after nine eleven, when people really felt like they were on 302 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,759 the same page. If you look back at the votes in favor of the 303 00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:56,680 post nine eleven wars, in favor of establishing, for instance, the Patriot 304 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:02,079 Act, again there was some descent, there was debate eight but compared to 305 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,039 what both parties or people in both parties would make of these programs, now 306 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,680 that's very different. And as you guys are covering these things, I have 307 00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:18,799 to wonder people myself included, I wasn't you know, a voting age even 308 00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:22,799 close in these in these years. I don't think I voted until twenty eleven 309 00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:27,319 tea party years something like that when I was eighteen. But as somebody who 310 00:24:27,319 --> 00:24:33,880 had no part it gave no consent for the government to expand to the point 311 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:40,039 where it is now. How do you see, how do you look at 312 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,680 the decisions the country made domestically, Even I'm not going to talk about the 313 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,519 wars right now, but just domestically, how things changed after nine to eleven 314 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,240 within this context of the reality that even if we don't think about it every 315 00:24:52,319 --> 00:24:56,440 day, a lot of what you're covering ends up being downstream of new powers 316 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:02,519 that expanded it in those years. I might jump back in here. I 317 00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:07,440 think it was best encapsulated for me in George W. Bush and in the 318 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,759 moments following nine to eleven. You know, my parents were teaching us about 319 00:25:11,839 --> 00:25:15,599 nine to eleven about who is the president, you know, kind of just 320 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,559 the general American political situation, and so I knew who he was. In 321 00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:25,519 the years following he looked like such a hero. And now as an adult 322 00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:30,200 looking back, and I literally live in George W. Bush's childhood town, 323 00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:36,839 like he is memorialized everywhere in this town. I'm so angry. I'm so 324 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:44,359 angry that that this was ushered in so quickly and without it felt like a 325 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,599 care in the world. And it's so frustrating to see that there is a 326 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,960 direct link to all the issues that we're having right now back to these moments 327 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,440 and how rashly we were thinking. And I can't help but wonder what kind 328 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:03,880 of rash policy did in the last few years with the COVID drama and everything 329 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,160 else going on, is going to have severe consequences down the line for the 330 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:14,359 rest of the generations. Like it's just I think it really highlights how important 331 00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:18,720 is to think things through, not just with framing of the present, but 332 00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:22,440 framing of the past and framing of the future, because it really does have 333 00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:26,039 a huge impact, and it's not easy to undo this. I mean, 334 00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:30,759 there's really not a good way to undo what has happened over the last twenty 335 00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:36,640 two years. I'm glad you linked the COVID door, but I was just 336 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,519 thinking, it's like, it's another example of how one of the things the 337 00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:45,599 government does best is weaponize people's good intentions against them. And we definitely saw 338 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:51,759 that again during COVID, where there was this kind of emotional manipulation telling people 339 00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:56,000 like we'll look out for grandma, and you know, look take care of 340 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,680 your neighbors, do this for your neighbors. And we now know, and 341 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,759 some of us knew then that a lot of that was just being used to 342 00:27:04,759 --> 00:27:10,880 to push policies and practices that didn't help anyone but did take away a lot 343 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,359 of people's freedoms. Just like a lot of these postman element policies have been 344 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,319 used too. Yeah, I think l that that's exactly how I feel about 345 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,799 all of this. Really, it's I'm angry, to be honest about how 346 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:32,519 we had gone through this national tragedy. People felt so much patriotism and and 347 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,519 you know, just rage over what happened to our country, and the powers 348 00:27:37,559 --> 00:27:45,039 that be used those emotions to justify this. I mean the Patriot Act really, 349 00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:48,880 which was which was sponsored by James Senson Runner, who's a man from 350 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:56,319 Wisconsin who my family knows well. But you know, it was a terrible, 351 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,279 terrible decision that now has been used truthfully against the four of US and 352 00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:04,920 against any conservative in this country. I bring it up all the time, 353 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:11,000 but it's it's true. Andrew McCabe, who was a Russia hoaxer former deputy 354 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:17,640 FBI director, said two years ago during a seminar with David axel Out at 355 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:25,680 the University of Chicago that conservatives are are equivalent to the Islamic Caliphate, that 356 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:33,359 half of the country is likened to domestic terrorists. They've deployed the the strategies 357 00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:41,599 and the privileges that they gained at the at the after nine eleven and used 358 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,599 it against their political enemies, which happens to be us, And that is 359 00:28:45,799 --> 00:28:51,000 infuriating, and not just about the security state, but also thinking about all 360 00:28:51,039 --> 00:28:55,559 the people that died in Iraq and Afghanistan. And with hindsight, we know 361 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,279 that particularly Iraq, we were not we were not there or correct reasons they 362 00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:03,960 lied to the American people about weapons of mass destruction. We know that the 363 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:11,359 Afghanistan withdrawal was a complete disaster. We essentially we left behind allies and billions 364 00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:17,720 of dollars of military equipment that made people who fought in those wars, who 365 00:29:17,799 --> 00:29:22,720 lost, people who lost friends and family members, feel like they were there 366 00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:27,519 for nothing. It feels like the government took this tragedy and then just kicked 367 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:34,000 us in the face with it, and it's enraging well. And shortly after 368 00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:38,039 we finally did get out of the Middle East, you see the military industrial 369 00:29:38,039 --> 00:29:47,039 complex working so hard to in twine us in another war in Ukraine. The 370 00:29:47,079 --> 00:29:51,160 Washdogroom, Wall Street Podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day Chris helps unpack the 371 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,720 connection between politics and the economy and how it affects your wallet. Ever heard 372 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,960 of goldilocks? Remember, bad news is not good news, no matter what 373 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,160 they claimed to say a bidnomics. Unemployment is still rising, wages remain stagnant, 374 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,880 and job numbers are now revised. There's still no soft landing with this 375 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,799 plane. Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting 376 00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:12,839 you financially. Be informed. Check out the Watchhold on Wall Street podcast with 377 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:22,319 Chris Markowski on Apples, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. There's something 378 00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:27,720 very interesting in what all of you said just now and again, I think 379 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:36,559 we will readily see that this is not a representative sample of twenty some things 380 00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:41,559 in the United States. You guys are politically engaged, you work in journalism, 381 00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:47,720 you're all women, and you're all really conservative. But that's part of 382 00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:56,200 what's interesting. Three conservatives now looking at Let's take a Sense and Brenner's Patriot 383 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,559 Act as an example. I'm actually from gen Sense and Brenner's district, born 384 00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:06,880 and race in his old district. And you know, the fact that he 385 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,200 was the author of that piece of legislation didn't loom large that I can remember 386 00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:14,440 in my childhood, at least, you know, in the sort of politics 387 00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:19,640 of the Waukasha area. But I imagine if former Congressman Cents and Burner were 388 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:25,880 here, he would say to you a vita and I'm sure very politely, 389 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,599 but I imagine it's very sensitive subject. And to everyone he would say, 390 00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:33,079 well, we don't know. We don't know what could have become of the 391 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,079 United States of America without the Patriot Act. We don't know, frankly, 392 00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:45,480 that we would all be here. We don't know what level of sheer random 393 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,559 terrorism could have consumed the United States and the years after nine to eleven were 394 00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:57,119 it not for the Patriot Act. We will see similar argumentation being deployed in 395 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,880 the coming months as what's known as Section seven O two, which we've talked 396 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:07,519 about in a couple of episodes of the show recently, which does authorize pretty 397 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:13,480 vast surveillance that is often and it is a very powerful argument that you hear 398 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:19,799 when these things come up. But you all said something so important, which 399 00:32:19,839 --> 00:32:22,480 is basically you didn't even say it, you you implied it, which is 400 00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:29,559 basically that you don't believe that for a second. You don't believe in your 401 00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:37,279 mind that basically has no validity. That's not something that you you believe at 402 00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:43,279 all. Am I wrong? No? No, I don't I don't think 403 00:32:43,359 --> 00:32:46,119 that any of this was justified. I think there's a famous, you know, 404 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,559 Ben Franklin quote where and I'm probably gonna butcher it, but he says, 405 00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:54,240 you know, those who would sacrifice essential liberty for safety don't don't deserve 406 00:32:54,319 --> 00:33:00,480 liberty or safety. And I think that's that's what we experienced in after nine 407 00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:02,920 to eleven, and we're reaping the consequences of that. I think the same 408 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,880 thing, as l pointed out, happened with COVID and now COVID two point 409 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,440 zero. Now they're trying to deploy it back at us with as we're coming 410 00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:15,759 up to an election, saying that, you know, we need to mask 411 00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:20,039 up again, we need to have you know, more boosters and more vaccines, 412 00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:23,279 and we've already been through all this. And I think people that that 413 00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:28,519 buy into this, that's say, for public safety or public health, we 414 00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:32,759 need to give up certain liberties. I think that is a complete departure from 415 00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:38,839 the American spirit, from the principles that we were founded on. And it 416 00:33:39,319 --> 00:33:45,519 saddens me to think that so many conservatives, and in the aftermath of nine 417 00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:52,440 to eleven, we're supportive of the Patriot Act, and it saddens me and 418 00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:55,519 at the same time, I think, you know what, maybe maybe we 419 00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,000 deserve it. Maybe we need to get ourselves out of this hole now because 420 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:07,160 because we are we are definitely conservatives are the outsized victims of the surveillance state. 421 00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:10,000 Uh, and now all four of us are going to have to, 422 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,800 you know, pick up the torch and try and undo the mess that has 423 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:19,639 been created by the previous generations. And it's going to be a fight. 424 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,039 But I really I disagree with that, with that hypothetical sense into her response, 425 00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:30,360 Well, one thing, Emily, that your quote or your hypothetical quote 426 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:35,000 from the senator made me think of. You know, I think since then, 427 00:34:35,039 --> 00:34:39,440 since the Patriot Act was passed, we've had a remarkable depletion of of 428 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,599 faith and institutions. And so, you know, I think the average American 429 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:49,000 their their senator that they like tells them, Hey, this, this is 430 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,440 what we need, this is going to be great. The average American, 431 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:57,360 ourselves included, are not experts on national security, and you know, I 432 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,599 think a lot of people had no reason not to believe what their lawmakers were 433 00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:04,679 telling them. Oh, this is necessary, this is good, this is 434 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,559 going to protect you, this isn't going to infringe upon their liberties. And 435 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,480 that's been a huge shift over the past twenty years, is seeing how a 436 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:19,360 lot of people today no longer trust those institutions because those institutions, a lot 437 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:25,199 of them have have forfeited that trust from the American people by making decisions in 438 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,440 ways that don't steward their trust. Well, and so I think, yeah, 439 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,559 I mean, of course it's not going to be enough for an elected 440 00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:38,719 representative to say, you know, we had to do this, you don't 441 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:46,840 know what what could have happened. That's that's not enough from an institution that 442 00:35:47,039 --> 00:35:52,679 has demonstrated that it's it's not taking care of Americans' interests. Well, yeah, 443 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:57,559 I think all can see, like hindsight is totally twenty twenty, but 444 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,039 there was a lot more going on here than what we've seen now. And 445 00:36:01,639 --> 00:36:06,039 what could have happened is what's happening to us right now. And to be 446 00:36:06,519 --> 00:36:10,559 fully frank, I'm more worried about the government coming after me and my family 447 00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:15,440 than a terrorist attack in my town or my airport or wherever. And is 448 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:21,320 that thanks to the Patriot Act? I don't think so. I think that 449 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,559 that proves that what could have happened has happened, and that's the government used 450 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:31,000 these acts and the expansion of security state to weaponize against its own people. 451 00:36:31,519 --> 00:36:37,039 And I just will never trust the government to protect me and my family better 452 00:36:37,079 --> 00:36:40,679 than I can. It just won't happen. And I think this proves that 453 00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:47,599 that's again, I find this really interesting. And as you were talking, 454 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,880 I was thinking about, how about four years before I was born, the 455 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:58,639 Berlin Wall fell. And it's very, very fashionable for people of my generation 456 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:07,280 to look back with intense, smug judgment on decisions that were made during the 457 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:14,239 Cold War, for example, some of which were absolutely nefarious, There's there's 458 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,719 no question about it. Some of which were exactly to the point that Cold 459 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:25,920 warrior Dwight Eisenhower made in his farewell address, were improperly and despicably motivated by 460 00:37:27,039 --> 00:37:34,559 profit. At the same time, the threat of global communism, that the 461 00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:43,400 threat of nuclear war, which was incredibly new to that generation, these things 462 00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:47,800 were rationally terrifying, and I know that we're terrifying. Sort of feels like 463 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:58,559 it's implicitly an irrational emotion, but people's terror at the potentiality of instant destruction 464 00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:06,360 of Cuba, for example, being compromised by the Russian military and being able 465 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:12,800 to exact all kinds of havoc and destruction in the United States, or having 466 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,719 sleeper cells in the United States that you know, catalyzed moral panics, that 467 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:24,800 that catalyzed the Red scare. As we say, people's fears were predicated on 468 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,599 something that was very real and that was very, very immediate. There was 469 00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:37,679 something rational about panicking in the Cold War years now. That isn't to say, 470 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,840 you know, I think we should have an airport named after Alan Dullies. 471 00:38:42,199 --> 00:38:45,599 That isn't to say all of these decisions, you know, be it 472 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:52,239 supporting Noriega early in his career. We could go into any number of specific 473 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,960 case studies that these were good decisions and that people should have known better. 474 00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:00,760 It's not what I'm saying, but it is interesting, and you can connect 475 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,239 the dots between sort of the Cold what happened during the Cold War, what 476 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,559 happened at nine to eleven. It is really interesting how these events shape each 477 00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:15,639 of us generationally despite them happening outside of our living memory. And that's where 478 00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:20,119 I want to turn this to you guys one more time. The opening credits 479 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,119 of Euphoria, or the opening scene in Euphoria, I think I've mentioned this 480 00:39:23,159 --> 00:39:25,760 on the show a couple of times because it struck me when I saw it. 481 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:32,079 Euphoria is this very popular show on HBO. One of the stars actually 482 00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:37,960 just passed away tragically from an overdose, which is a bit ironic given what 483 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:45,800 the show deals with. That addresses the plight of gen z. You know, 484 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,920 there's a lot less sex and drugs happening for the average Zoomer than there 485 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,559 is for the Zoomer and Euphoria, but there are a lot of pills, 486 00:39:52,559 --> 00:39:55,239 there's a lot of porn, there's a lot of pain. And the opening 487 00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:00,639 scene of this show starts with the girl being born, the lead character being 488 00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:02,559 born just a couple of days after nine to eleven, and her parents were 489 00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:07,239 in the hospital room watching what happened on nine to eleven in the news coverage 490 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,800 on the TV in the hospital room right after she's born. So, how 491 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:19,519 do you think nine to eleven affected you as an American? Changed you as 492 00:40:19,519 --> 00:40:31,519 an American, shaped you as an American? Go ahead, I'll say that 493 00:40:32,199 --> 00:40:40,599 it really made me further on, like in twenty twenty two now, made 494 00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:45,840 me have a lot more. It made me want to critically think more. 495 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:52,480 I think because when learning about nine to eleven, especially in the early years 496 00:40:52,519 --> 00:40:55,360 in elementary school and middle school where it was still new, where we're still 497 00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:00,960 in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, it was there felt like there was 498 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:07,360 a very clear enemy. It felt like, you know, Islamic terrorism is 499 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,599 is everywhere, that we have a clear objective in the Middle East, that 500 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,920 there that we that people hate America and hate everybody in it. And now 501 00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:22,920 looking back, I realized that things are so much more complicated. The reasons 502 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:30,960 for nine to eleven are are very complicated. The America's involvement before nine to 503 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:35,440 eleven and the reasons that that it happened are are not often talked about. 504 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,559 Even the way that Muslims were looked at after nine to eleven there was, 505 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:45,480 to be honest, there was a lot of of demonization of them, thinking 506 00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:50,079 that their religion was was evil or incompatible in the West. And as it 507 00:41:50,119 --> 00:41:54,519 turns out, there's a lot of Muslims who are partnering with with Christian parents 508 00:41:54,559 --> 00:42:01,639 to fight left wing school boards who are trying to inject CRT and radical trans 509 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:07,760 ideology into public schools. And so watching things realign in my own mind and 510 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:15,039 realizing that the enemy maybe isn't the enemy has been really eye opening. It 511 00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:22,960 makes you think about the world and in our country differently, and I actually 512 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,199 am very grateful to that, and I think it's it's made me realize that 513 00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:31,559 that government, no matter what country it's in or no matter what time period 514 00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:36,840 it's in, is always going to want more power, and ultimately, the 515 00:42:37,199 --> 00:42:40,840 only real allies you have are your your family, and your friends and your 516 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:47,239 neighbors that you know, and and the a government, whether that's on the 517 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:52,840 state or the federal level, is never always going to have your back, 518 00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:57,800 even if it seems like you know they are going to protect you in a 519 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:05,880 tragic aftermath like nine to eleven, There is always you should always fear that 520 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:12,760 kind of power. I think there's been such a devaluing of community, especially 521 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:19,639 in recent years, and looking back at, you know, the footage of 522 00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:23,599 when the national anthem would play shortly after nine to eleven, and how everyone 523 00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:30,760 stood up and probably admired their flag and admired their country, I think it 524 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:35,119 stirs a little bit in me, like is their hope. Is there a 525 00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:37,840 way that we can get this back in the country, And I honestly don't 526 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,880 know if there is, but it makes me proud to be an American in 527 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,880 the sense of I think that the principles that this nation was founded upon are 528 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:53,679 still there. They might be covered in a lot of there and all sorts 529 00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:57,079 of things, but they're still there, and there are still people who care 530 00:43:57,119 --> 00:44:00,480 about them. And when it comes down to it, if something happens, 531 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,360 he does write, the people around you are the ones who matter. And 532 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,719 so I think I just hope for a revival one day of that same spirit, 533 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:13,920 and a much more sustainable version of that same spirit. And I think 534 00:44:14,079 --> 00:44:20,079 that is what makes me and fuels me to be upset and try and hold 535 00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:24,320 people accountable for the erosion of the liberty and the principles that make our nation 536 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:30,239 so great. Yeah, I think to that point, like the unity and 537 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:37,519 the trust in the maybe unfounded trust and the decisions of your own government and 538 00:44:37,519 --> 00:44:44,039 their consequences, and the founded trust and your fellow citizen, I think as 539 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:49,199 kind of tinged that can be with frustration now feeling like, well where did 540 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:55,079 that America go? It is helpful to know that you know there was this 541 00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:58,880 example, even if I was two years old and don't remember it, this 542 00:44:59,039 --> 00:45:04,000 example of a strong unity and community within my lifetime. It's not this like 543 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:10,599 far away America that older generations speak of, that it's hopelessly lost. So 544 00:45:10,639 --> 00:45:14,440 I think it's it makes you, you know more, I feel a little 545 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:22,840 bit more more encouraged about seeking out the places and the ways in which that 546 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:30,559 unity still exists and defending it more staunchly. On the evening of nine to 547 00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:36,320 eleven, I remember, and again I'm thirty, my mom picked me up 548 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:37,679 from school, took me straight to church, and when I came back, 549 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:43,880 I remember looking out my bedroom window was still wide out. They had already 550 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:49,880 put me to bed, and seeing an airplane and hearing an airplane, and 551 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,119 you know, I was young, so you know, it was nine. 552 00:45:52,199 --> 00:45:55,679 I didn't really have a clear sense of what had happened on nine to eleven. 553 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,679 When I was on the bus that morning, reports were just coming in 554 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,199 and I I remember hearing it on the country music station. It was probably 555 00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:07,400 from one oh six as the bus driver was taking us to school. I 556 00:46:07,519 --> 00:46:09,840 was picked up early by my mom, taking straight to church, and I 557 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:15,000 remember looking at the airplane that night and being genuinely terrified. And I remember 558 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:21,599 on the tenth anniversary of nine to eleven in Washington, DC, being genuinely 559 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:27,639 terrified, having this very serious sense of fear for my personal safety, terror 560 00:46:28,119 --> 00:46:32,800 from my personal safety, which tells you right there that terrorism, you know, 561 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:37,519 especially when you're a lot of people who experienced nine to eleven as adults 562 00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:43,960 and we're able to kind of reason in a way that children aren't. That 563 00:46:44,039 --> 00:46:47,760 might have been a different experience, but you know, despite being in Wisconsin 564 00:46:49,599 --> 00:46:52,280 on September eleven, twenty two thousand and one, it was. It was 565 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,320 very frightening. And I just wanted to say that I think, as somebody 566 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:59,719 who's a little bit older than you guys, my answer to the same question 567 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:04,360 I I tossed your way is that I actually grew up very afraid, very 568 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:13,039 very scared of something happening, of meeting a horrific and like the innocent souls 569 00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:15,840 of thousands of innocent souls did on nine to eleven. And I know we 570 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:22,480 could continue talking about the years after September eleventh and the history and what it 571 00:47:22,519 --> 00:47:24,920 means and how it shaped all of us for a long time. But you've 572 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:30,199 been very generous and I appreciate all of you, Avida Duffy, Alfonso el 573 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:37,199 Purnell, and Jordan Boyd for joining me today. I appreciate you guys sharing 574 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,880 your thoughts. Thank you so much, thank you, Thanks Emily, Thanks 575 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,880 Emily. Well, if you were affected by nine to eleven, if you 576 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,719 lost the loved one, you're in our prayers. We're praying for you today. 577 00:47:50,039 --> 00:47:53,360 Can't imagine how hard every anniversary is. I imagine this is something that 578 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:58,639 affects you every single day, but especially on today. We're praying for you. 579 00:47:58,639 --> 00:48:00,559 You've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour, a memtal 580 00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:05,079 editions Kick Culture editor here at the Federalist will be back soon with more. 581 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,760 Until then, the lovers of freedom and anxious for the Frame