And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is at triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the randallsham Pars incident. It
doesn't involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over
our heads, classic fly. He's also really standing into clearing. He turned
over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes
and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show.
During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room,
and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. Hello,
and welcome to the show on Martin willishire host and we have Alejandro Rojas coming
up with UFO updates. And just a minute here before that, I did
want to say talk about our guest. He is Michael Hall. He has
quite a background. He was a former Superior Court Charge pro tem certified mediator
and he's also into UFOs and I'm gonna be talking a lot about that.
And he's out on the West coast and near the Seattle area, Washington State
anyway, So I wanted to just say something really quickly or because a lot
of times, you know, I get there's a lot of negative feedback on
YouTube, and that's just the way it is. I understand that. And
a lot of times I don't read any of the messages, so that's why
sometimes I never respond. But sometimes I do read them, and I see
some really good points that someone makes, sometimes really good critiques. So I
take it all and I do want to I get this really nice message,
and I've always been, you know, a little bit concerned about my professional
life when it comes to UFOs and how they may cross. So I got
this mail. I'm just going to read it to you because I thought it
was really nice and I really liked getting it. So I'm a long time
listener to the Antiques Forum. That's my that's my show. I'd do a
podcast on antiques called the Antiques Auction Forum. And he writes here that he
found my UFO show, and boy was I surprised and skeptical, But I
thought I'd listened to a couple of episodes, as I hold you in high
regard and believe you to be a straight up guy. Anyway, the second
episode I listened to was about the Nimits case, and boy, I soon
learned why you have an interest in this area. My views have changed quite
a bit with such credible witnesses. So since then I've listened to a few
and I've done my own googling on the Nimitz case. In particular, I
really like the way you bring your logical antiques brain to the program and seek
to find the truth and call out the fakes. That as healthy as I
like, many people tend to lump everything together. Incidentally, I'm into voting,
so we share a couple of interest and now you can add UFOs to
that. Anyway, he says a lot of really kind things. I just
thought i'd add that to the show because I thought it was a very nice
thing for someone to write. And also it's probably the first vindication that I
really had that people are okay with me doing UFOs and antiques at the same
time. Alejandro, So nice letter, isn't it. That was a nice,
nice note to get. It's a great letter. And it's funny because
you say it was vindication that people are into okay with you. That's what's
funny. He wasn't. At first. He was thinking, Oh great,
Martin, I like this guy, and he turned out he's a UFO weirdo.
But Luckily he liked you enough to listen to the show and saw there
was credible stuff. So that's really cool. It's a great story. Oh
by the way, he said, I could say his name. He's Tony
and he's from Sydney, Australia. Ah, so thank you. Yeah,
yes, yeah, I had a lot of listeners. By the way,
I'm sure you do too. In Australia country of what twenty six million people,
it's like second a lot of people down there, yeah, like second
or as far as listeners to the show, which is great. I would
love to go out there too and visit sometime. Ben Hanson, our good
buddy, goes out there and does talks out there. Yeah, on a
once a year. It's a longer. That'd be fun. Takes forever to
get there, but I really want to go there in the winter that winter
here, summer there. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. So what's
going on in the UFO world? Quite a bit again, a lot as
usual. Of course. The biggest story is this thing about storming Area fifty
one. So I wrote a story this weekend. And this isn't just to
plug my story, of course, it is largely about that, but also
to talk about the details in the story. What I wrote was the people
who have gone past the warning signs at Area fifty one, and I put
this on my blog at all one hundred two rohas dot com, but I
actually wrote it for the Rosswell Daily Records to some form of it'll go up
there. But my point is, as I was writing the story this weekend,
the clicker was at about six hundred ninety thousand. By the time I
finished my story, it was out up to about seven hundred and ten.
Now it is at if I saw right, one point four million, so
it's doubled since just a couple days ago when I wrote my story. So
this thing is really going up and up. And I actually contacted the Lincoln
County Sheriff's Department And here's why. If you read my story, my story
is about three different people who went across the line and what happened to them.
And essentially what happens is the guards hold you until the police come because
it's their jurisdiction. But you could be waiting there with your face in the
dirt for a long time before and you'll be manhandled and shoved in the dirt,
you know, until you the police get there. The police had no
comment. They said, we're aware of this, but we have no comment.
However, the Air Force has told Washington Post, you know we're ready
for it. You don't do it, and we're going to be ready if
you try it. So, yeah, it's amazing that this is getting news
all over the place. The question is are people gonna show up? Sure,
it started as a hoax apparently. In fact, if I look at
the description for the event, all it says is we will all meet up
at the area fifty one Alien Center tourists to attraction and coordinate our entry.
If we Naruto run, we can move faster than their bullets. Let's see
them alive and then Ruto's cartoon. If for those of you don't know,
these kids training to be Ninja's so they run very fast and they dodge bullets.
So even though this seemed to be a joke to begin with, you
know, with one point four million, you think, I think people are
going to show up. But what's scary is people like George Napp or Nick
Pope. I've retweeted their tweets saying, hey, this is a really dumb
idea. George Napps is funny, Hey, if you do it, it's
gonna make for a good story, then all right, you know, because
he's there in Las Vegas. But don't do it because it's dumb. And
I was surprised at the number of negative response as they got where people are
like, oh, you're just being negative. You just don't want us to
find the truth, just information. Yeah, exactly. So there's a host
of people out there who I think are taking this seriously. So I hope
that the authority is already and we'll see what happens. I think it is
a bad idea, and I think I might I'm really highly considering going just
to cover what may or may not happen. When I was on your show,
Yes, we talked on your show about this as well, and we
were talking about the possibility of Facebook shutting that down, which I hope they
do. But I was just thinking about this today. If Facebook did shut
it down today, I bet something would still happen, you know, I
mean, because there's so many people involved, it would still be a new
story. And of course we were talking about shutting it down because essentially it's
illegal. You can't store Mary if you're two one, it's illegal, and
so this post is advocating and it's essentially a real conspiracy to commit a crime
with one point four million people at area fifty one. So that's why we're
speculating maybe they'll shut it down. They haven't yet, and I don't know
that they will. Of course, they have a lot of time to do
it. This event isn't planned until September twentieth, so it'll be really interesting.
I wonder how many of your listeners have clicked the going button. I
clicked the interested button. I'm interested to see what happened. There's about one
point one interested people million interested people at one point four millions say they're going.
So yeah, that's a big news story that's all over the place.
But I'm really proud of my story because I've written this about these other people
who've gone across and some of it's pretty fun. And a couple of these
stories that I posted have videos, so you can actually see what happens if
you check that out. But yeah, that's a big story out there,
so it happens when you click on it that you're interested. Are you getting
any like notices or something like that through face? You know what? I
haven't noticed that I've been getting any notices at all. To be honest,
I thought maybe I would, but I'm not sure what kind of notice is
I would get. But I haven't been getting anything that I've noticed at all.
Of course, I'm overwhelmed with notifications on and comments on so much other
things going on on Facebook that I could have missed it. But yeah,
so far, I haven't seen anything. Yeah. Yeah, Well, while
this will be really interesting how it plays out, and I just hope no
one gets hurt, you know, and no one really wants to spend time
in the dirt. Yeah, exactly, No one wants to spend time in
the dirt. And it was funny because I told these stories. Of course,
when I was going with the Kardashian Sarah fifty one, I got to
take them, I told these stories to them on the way up to make
it sure they understood do not cross those lines. Yeah, and if you
watch this show, they were really freaking out there telling their dad at the
time, Bruce now Caitlin Doe Cross, Doe Cross, and he kind of
tried to scare them. But yeah, I would not want to to experience
that. But you were telling me about a listener we were talking before we
came on who was mentioning a popular mechanics story. And besides, since Area
fifty one story, we've had a lot of very positive media talk about UFOs,
and this popular mechanic one is a good one. It's the same,
and I like it because I'm a fan of popular mechanics. But they've always
been very negative. In fact, when I was back with Muffon, they
wrote this really bad one. It was during the Stephen Bill fill years.
It was terrible. But this article is pretty good. It's it's I don't
know. It says five scientific reasons for believing in aliens, and I'm gonna
go over the five reasons real quick here SETI institute. I don't think this
is a scientific reason for believing in aliens. It just means that these disbelieve
in aliens. Yeah, and they're searching for aliens. So maybe I guess
because these scientists do that, you should too. Number two is UFOs peak
the Pentagon's interest. That doesn't mean you should believe in aliens or nor does
it give nor have they said they have scientific evidence of aliens. But it's
still a great story, so I'm glad that they include it. Three the
Navy jet UFO encounters, those, of course are interesting. We've had witnesses
on scientifically, you know, so they're interesting for is Amamua, which I
don't think is alien at all. It's probably, you know, just kind
of some natural thing here, but that scientists we're talking about aliens around it
is interesting. And then five a plethora of exoplanets, and I think this
is the best scientific case just to show that they are way, way,
way more planets out there than even the scientists expected. And of course,
if our lonely little planet here that we know so well has life on it,
then what are the chances the numerous, the millions and millions of other
planets out there may have intelligent life as well. The odds are probably pretty
good. So it is a great popular mechanics piece there. But otherwise,
lots of other UFO news going on. If you want to know more about
that the headlines out there, of course, go to the front page of
open mindstat TV and you'll see them there in the headlines. Well, hey,
I just looked in chat. We have Kevin Day and Chat and Chris
Lambright. Wow, it's an all star chat this evening. Awesome. How
about that? Huh? Kevin's awesome. I can't wait to meet him at
the UFO Congress. Be speaking at the congress. That's right, that's right.
Hey, Alandro, thank you so much and thank you, and we'll
talk to you next week. Have a good one, all right, talk
next week. And don't storm Area fifty one. Yeah, don't plan on
it, but I'll take pictures of the people who do. Yeah, all
right, take care. Maybe some video, yeah, all right. So
our guests this evening is Michael Hall, and he is a former Superior Court
judge, ProTem certified mediator, founding and a founding partner of the Whole Law
firm. Um. Anyway, I'm going to skip all the way down to
this part where he has a lifelong interest in UFOs and we'll be talking about
that and so much more. He's also part of the UFO I team.
He just got back from some four day excursion. We're going to talk about
that. And so Michael, how are you welcome to the show. Hey,
Martin then doing really well? Good? Good? Yeah, I need
your camera, yeah I can see yeah, there are you? All right?
Great? Thanks a lot, Welcome to the show. I'm really excited
to be here. Thank you for having me on. Yes, you're very
welcome, and we're gonna be talking about all kinds of things. For the
person who is unaware of who you are, can you go ahead and give
them the thumbnail description of what you do, how you're how you got into
this stuff. This crazy subject of UFOs not so crazy anymore though, Yeah,
isn't that something exactly well, you know, like most of us out
there, I've been interested in UFOs my entire life, ever since I was
a little kid. I think my professional career basically started back in nineteen seventy
four or so when I was a field investigator for the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization
CORAL and Jim lawrence AND's group back in those days. Also, over the
years after I became attorney, I became representing a lot of upologists basically some
of their setting up their you know, programs for their corporate entities, and
every once in a while there's some legal issues that come along. For instance,
when Peter Davenport purchased his underground missile site in Eastern Yes, yeah,
I was the guy who with that deal together for him. I've been Peter's
attorney for the last twenty five years. And the National UFO Reporting Center.
Also doctor Richard Haynes, the pilot reporting agency in our cap and then their
attorney since ninety nine. I'll go back all the way to doctor James Harder
representing him back in the old days, and I've heard I've heard the name.
I'm not, I don't know much about him, but I have definitely
heard the name. Well, he was, he was the lead scientist for
APRIL back in the seventies. He was the first guy to get a hold
of Travis Walton actually and do an actual investigation and hypnosis regression with Travis initially
after his nineteen seventy five siding. So, um, yeah, it goes
back a long way. Of course, I represent Grant Cameron with all these
new breaking things that have been going on, you know, on the Wilson
memo and the Santilli you know, even autops see films and all that stuff.
So, uh, I've been involved a long time, and uh,
you know, basically I'm way beyond the point of do aliens or UFOs exist.
We're trying to get down to the bottom line of what what's behind the
the issues and what's behind the big push for disclosure right now as we know
in the mainstream stream media. You know, I've had a lot of people
argue that point, and they're they're saying, there's been a soft disclosure for
a long time, and so what are your what are you sure your your
comeback from that that statement, well, you know, uh, you know,
Grant Cameron would say that, you know, ever since he got into
this thing about forty years ago, that there are these programs of soft disclosure.
They push something out, they pull it back, and then they push
it out again. In matter of fact, a lot of the main players
kind of moreh from one organization to the other. You know, there was
the Avery back in the old days, uh than you know, Curse the
the Mids organization came along with Robert Bigelow and now the Tooth the Stars Academy.
It seems to be some of the same people involved throughout this whole disclosure
process. But I'll tell you what, Ever, since that New York Times
article December sixteenth, two thousand and seventeen came out, for some reason,
there was a massive agenda right now to red pill the public on the issue
of UFOs, And eventually it's going to have to be the issue of aliens
as well. So that's the fascinating thing that I have in my long career
of over forty years studying this stuff pretty heavily, I've never seen this push
at this point on mainstream media, on you know, the History Channel,
all sorts of television series and movies coming out to actually get people up to
speed on these strange paranormal issues that we're all going to have to deal with
if there's a huge paradigm shift happening coming towards this. You know, one
of the things that you know, you mentioned aliens a couple of times there.
And the one thing that I've seen, you know, say, for
instance, lou Alixando make perfectly clear, is that he doesn't want to use
the word aliens is just an unknown And are you actually thinking that. I
mean, I like to hear other people's opinions, but you have your thought,
is that you think that it is actually aliens that we're seeing, uh,
you know, driving these crafts or there's all kinds of theories you do.
Oh yeah, no, maybe you know, if if we've got our
top gun pilots out there, Louis Alizando, Chris Mellan, everybody in a
tip basically saying, well, we really don't know what these are, but
we can't do what they do. Um, you know, there's no chance
out there that the Soviets and the Chinese or some advanced civilization on our own
planet is creating these these craft that can do these things. So you know,
basically, I'm going towards the Verne von Braun you know prediction of the
enemies out there that we'll be you know, gracing our our borders here.
Of course, first it was the Russians, you know, that was something
that we needed to have during the Cold War and before. And then of
course it was the terrorists were the next issue that Verne von Braun brought up.
Then of course there was rogue nations just you know, various nations out
there, like you know, North Korea or whatever. Uh. And the
last one, uh, the most notably was the asteroids. That was kind
of fun. I remember when they were pushing those a few years back.
Then. Of course, the last false flag or you know, enemy that
we're gonna have to fight is the Aliens. So even though they're not talking
about that, you know, an a tip and on unidentified on the History
Channel, yet they sure did give you the impression that there's some threat out
there, and I think that's one they're going to be heading towards. Next
is the alien agenda, which we need to be very discerning about. Yeah,
you know, there's a there's a lot of skepticism when it comes to
what it is in theories. And you know, I had a professor on
here, I don't know, maybe three weeks ago that had a theory that
it's actually us from the distant future, you know, coming back. He
had quite a background too where he and he made quite a good case.
I'm not saying that I believed him any more than anything else, but he
actually made a really great case for time travel as what we're seeing, you
know. And I think the reason, you know, I'm sure you know
the reason, the number one reason this comes up and different theories come up,
is because of the vast differences I mean distances. I mean that you
know, an alien would have to travel to get here, and of course
that it may be figured they may figure out something in physics that we haven't
thought of yet to get here. You know, that's a that's very possible,
but it's all fascinating. But you know, the way this the one
thing I always wonder about if it is Aliens and they are traveling here,
if they want to go back to where they're from, how can they escape
this time difference? In other words, you know, when they come back
there, everyone they knew is gone, and you know, I mean maybe
they figured a way around that too. I mean, have you ever thought
about that type of thing? Well, yes I have. As a matter
of fact, you know, this is real timely given the fact that there's
some interesting details listed in the fifteen page Admiral Wilson Core Secrets document it has
just been reefed. There's a spot in that document where they are claiming basically
at least Commander or Admiral Wilson is telling to tell Eric Davis Doctor Eric Davis's
interviewing him in this memo. He's telling him that he was told they have
an actual working craft, a extraterrestrial craft that can travel through interstellar space,
through our atmosphere of course, underwater, he mentions in this memo, and
through dimensions. This is a working craft that basically is being talked about by
high government level j two Joint chiefs of staff in charge of all the intelligence
companies or divisions of all the military are talking about. He is running across
this information that these kinds of things transient dimensions, let alone time. There's
also a letter in this fifteen page memo by Commander will Miller, who is
it's being sent to doctor Davis, who claims that there is a scientist that
is working on time travel and he's got what they call the force theory of
the universe. And so I think, I probable is very well. It
said something that they've talked about and probably someone has conquered already. I don't
know about us coming back from the future, you know, and being UFOs
and trying to warn us something or whatever like that. It's very interesting.
You would think that if you're messing around with the past, if you go
back into the time and want to mess around with the past or tweak the
past, obviously there's multiple butterfly effects that could happen for your own future when
you go back as well. So you know, I actually I brought that
up during we have to go to break here in just a couple of minutes.
But I brought that up to this gentleman, this professor, and he
had an answer for that too. I think he basically said that no,
once something has happened, it's it's happened in where you are, in the
world you're in or whatever, and you can't change that, which I don't
know if one thing I didn't think to ask him. If that was the
case, then why would they bother coming back and saying, um, be
good to your world, you know, don't pollute and whatever it is they're
saying, don't destroy the planet if nothing changes in their world, you know
what I mean? Good boy? Yeah, all all these paradoxes, you
know, it's exactly. It's really fascinating. And um so isn't what you
mentioned about these uh the government officials and this craft that they're you know,
I think it's the Navy pattern. Um um, but these are all theories
at this point, isn't that right? Well, if you read the fifteen
pages of that Wilson memo, which I encourage everyone did you you know,
you can go to h you can go to Twitter and download it. You
can load it anywhere if you just google the term um Admiral Wilson UFO memo
or Core Secrets memo. Everyone should read. It is very detailed and the
documents or the the things that they're talking about in that uh specific part about
a working craft is not a theory. He's talk talking about that they have
a theory that these things could work. Um, Admiral Wilson is telling doctor
Eric Davis that is understanding is that they have a working craft that can do
these things. So there's a whole lot of interesting things in that memo that
most people don't really have the opportunity to get into the details of it because
it is fifteen pages long. It's mostly single space, and it names dates
and times and programs that are being run unaccountably run by the way no government
or military oversight, by civilian subcontractors that work for the government. So I
would encourage everyone to get into details of that, Okay, And I want
to when we come back from this break. I do want to point out
a couple of arguments for that also. But let's go into break right now.
This is Martin Willis and my guest tonight is Michael Hall, and we'll
be right back right after these messages. Clear three minutes, gentlemen, three
minutes. Okay, thank you. So we're still live, We're still live
on YouTube, and so I just h're just going to start the timer right
here. So I know we'll probably get back into this, you know,
when you and I are going back on the regular show. But I did
want to ask you about the amount of sightings out in Washington now, I
know, of course, you know nineteen forty seven, the very famous starting
out out there as a Mountain Rainier, I believe. Yeah, And actually
we had even one before then. That was the modern DAYU folk thing.
Two weeks before Mount Rainier, there was Marie Island. Yeah, but that
too, That's that's been pretty much proven a hoax, I believe. Nope,
it wasn't. It was actually proven that the guy said it was a
hoax to get everybody off his back. But there was so many people involved
with that thing that the issue with matter of fact, I know, the
two guys that put together the More i'man Incident film, one of them as
an attorney friend of mine, Steve Edmondson and Scott Schaeffer, really good researches
and stuff. They come up with the whole scenario how that thing happened,
and this guy's life was just ripped to shreds by the first men in Black
by the way that showed up, you know, and threatened him and his
family, and his son actually disappeared for two weeks, kidnapped his son's fourteen
year old kid. So you can imagine why he was pretty much done with
the thing after the initial sighting. He said whatever they want him to say,
well I will. I'm gonna have you school me a little bit more
on that will communicate through email. But I'd like to know more of why
you think that's um, you know that that really happened with Uh, It's
so confusing, isn't it to know? Sometimes when I think a case is
really solid, then I find out oops, you know, and uh,
there's so it's it's really hard. So that's the whole thing with the still
alien autopsy film coming back and uh, you know, come and do the
frow right now. This is just nuts. You know. Some of those
things have been recycled and recycled, and we get more and more, maybe
less and less information, you every know, every time they come out.
Isn't this just we only have a few seconds here left. But isn't this
just a way for Santilli to make a little more money? I mean,
this is what I would think right up the bat, well, I would
think so. But I have another theory on that about you know, there
were people that saw a very similar alien autopsy film earlier than nineteen ninety five.
What he created is I think the Santilli film was maybe a disinformation kind
of like a Bob Mnegger problem where they would show something being a hoax,
just a kind of you know, money the waters on people who actually saw
some real footage earlier than nineteen ninety five. So that's a fascinating story that
we're involved with. Great camera to myself, right, twenty seconds, gentleman.
Okay, twenty seconds. That's good, thank you. Yeah. So
we'll go back and we'll jump right back to where we were on this Wilson
UFO document. Here when when Bill brings us back on? All right,
ready here Bill, whenever you are all right, I'll count your back in
a second, all right, stand by in three two one go all right,
welcome back. My guest is Michael Hall. And right before the break,
we were talking about the Wilson UFO memo, the leaked they call it
the leaked memo and all that, and and I said I was gonna argue,
I don't mean really argue, but you know, discuss some of the
things that I've heard about this in particular, one of them is, uh,
I know that Wilson himself was called and he denied it, you know.
And I know, of course, you know that that's a possibility of
someone denying something, even if it's real or not. So I don't know
how much cred insect gives. But also there's some question on the letter head.
What can you say about the letter head was not correct? What do
you think? What's your thoughts about that? Yeah, well, the letter
head that you're referring to is the Commander Willard Miller wrote a letter to doctor
Eric Davis and kind of inquired as to whether they would want to have some
contacts that you were looking for in about alien retrieved alien and back engineered alien
hardware. And so in that letter he uses a kind of like a letter
head that looks to be like some kind of an eagle with the you know,
a banner around it or something. The basic explanation of why people don't
recognize that is because supposedly Commander Miller was retired at the time and was just
basically using a personal letterhead that he put together, you know, to send
out letters other people in including doctor Stephen Greer, by the way, who
was at this initial briefing of Admiral Wilson in nineteen ninety seven along with Edgar
Mitchell and Willard Miller. Stephen Grouser's that that's a letterhead he recognizes himself from
the retired Willard Miller. So, um, that's kind of been Um,
you know, put the bed in that regard. It's not an actual government
agency that's on that letter head. And what about Davis's his reaction to the
to the sole document. Well, you know, it's very very interesting because
when you're talking about the definition of a core secret, and you put that
in quotes, when you're talking about something that is a military program or any
kind of thing that the military is working on. When they designated the course
secret, even the denial or the no comment regarding that subject can be as
security breach. So basically the idea that if it's a course secret, you
can't even really acknowledge it. So what happened with Eric Davis and how put
off by the way both of them responded to inquiries about whether this UH memo
and h and the Willard Miller letter were true and correct. They both went
on at length basically that said no comment, but it didn't say just no
comment. They went it, you know, because of our security clearances that
we some of us still have, and they're talking about how put off and
doctor Eric Davis and some of the other people that are involved in the Needs
Organization currently because of their current you know, classifications and clearances that they have,
they can't even comment on this thing. So they couldn't come out and
say vociferously they're denying that this is a fake. But they had to explain
that in quite a few words that they were just basically giving no comment.
So you're saying that they actually denied that the thing is a fake in a
roundabout ways, of which, well, some people are claiming that the fact
that they didn't come out vociferously denying that this was a hoax, you know,
give some kind of a credence to these things being potentially true and correct.
But in reality, if you're actually looking at a classified, unacknowledged special
access program, that's of course you can't even deny or you know, get
into the details of something being false and not representing a real program. So
but they're craftily denying it in more than a few words which kind of throw
as a red flag up for some folks. I see now I heard that
an Australian UFO researcher had this document for say ten years or something like that.
Prior, I wouldn't say it was that long. No, Um,
a matter of fact, edgar Mitchell passed away. What is a ninety four
I believe edgar Mitchell. No, that was just a couple of years years
ago, Just a couple of years ago. So it was basically the theory
that these documents came from doctor edgar Mitchell's estate. Basically understand that his heirs,
his family didn't really care about some of these issues that he had,
you know, put the gather in banker boxes worth of material. So one
of the individuals that knew edgar Mitchell Mitchell, got to hold of these boxes
and documents. And then the gentleman that you're talking about from Australia by the
name of James Rigney actually got a hold of one of these boxes of documents
that was able to go through it, found the fifteen page memo and knew
that this was quite important. So basically in November of twenty eighteen, just
last year, he actually gave it to Grant Cameron, and Grant Cameron when
he found it, and when he saw it basically told me that he went
his face went ashen. He couldn't believe that even on the first page of
this document, noting the names and the details that are mentioned on there,
Grant said that this was the most important document he has ever seen in uphology.
And of course Richard Dolan has called it the smoking gun Ufo Memo of
this century, so that's how important this document was. So since two and
eighteen, and then Grant got a hold of me in twenty nineteen because he
needed to figure out how what were we going to do with his document?
What does he have as far as liability to release this kind of a document
to the public. And eventually what we did in two thousand January or so,
we actually formed a disclosure trust that I've created for whistleblowers, specifically to
put documents and artifacts and various things into a state planning entity that they can
control the access and the dissemination of just in case something happened to Grant in
the interim. Then, of course, what happened in June seventh on Twitter
was the thing got actually released, not by Grant Cameron or myself. But
actually an anonymous worse released the document. Now everybody knows about it and has
gone through it with a fine tooth comb. All right, when you say
it was released anonymously, is that is that? Was it by a tweet?
Is this how this thing was released and then linked it as? I
mean? Can't someone search this out and figure out who it is that released
it? Yeah, good point, because you would think that, you know,
the really hotshot computer ackers out there could place this down and figure out
where it came from. So far, no one's been able to do that.
Basically, it came from a site called anger I am gu r.
It was posted there initially, and Astley was posted on Reddit prior to that.
Once back, I understand it was on Reddit and it was ignored.
I understood. Yeah, But in June June seven, June sixth, actually
it was actually posted again on Twitter, which you know, basically hit at
the mainstream big time. Okay, Well, there's there's a lot of people
that are saying that this is just a fake document, there's nothing to it.
There's people saying that even if it's real, it's not that big of
a deal. What's your thoughts about those comments, Well, you know that
my comment would be that if this was a major disinformation program, uh,
you know, basically, if if the government, for instance, was looking
the muddy the waters with some kind of a document that would eventually be proven
to be false, if I was in charge of that kind of a disinformation
program, I sure would not come up with a fifteen page transcript or memo
whatever you want to call it, with all the names of people who are
living by the way, some of them passed away, but a lot of
them are still living and programs that could be cross checked and make sure that
they were still alive, available and working and dates and times. I would
not do that in such detail. If I was going to make a disinformation
campaign, it might be you know, a couple three pages long, and
I'd pick maybe two or three names that I could definitely control, you know,
whether they would come out and say it's a hoax or whatever. But
I'll tell you what, there are so many Pentagon and you know, government
officials that are named in this document that can be searched out and determined if
they're actually in the positions that they're talked about being in during this memo.
There's also many other organizations like the people at NIDS, like doctor Stephen Greer
and Edgar Mitchell. There are remote viewers that are named. There's even another
attorney that's named in this document, this fifteen page memo, that has represented
one of the remote viewers in the past. And boy, I'll tell you
what, I have gotten many phone calls and emails into that gentleman. I'd
like to be able to talk with him personally myself, just to see what
he would know about the details that are in this memo itself. Even doctor
I mean Willard Miller, Commander Willard Miller, who has now come out and
said that, you know, this document is at least his letter. Part
of the document looks to be a cut and paste, you know, of
something that he might have written or not written. I basically have confirmed through
some of the other researchers out there that he actually remembers that he wrote some
of that, and specifically he's talking about the initial paragraph of his letter where
he's inviting how put off in doctor Davis to a scientific meeting in Tallahassee,
Florida to meet another scientist working on this time travel, you know, in
dimensional issues and stuff. So he remembers writing that he remembers, and actually
the date and the time and the address on the letter is his home address.
That's been firm as well. But some of the other things in the
memo where they're saying that, you know, if you want to get a
hold of some of these people that are involved in the reverse engineering programs that
the government has, Willard Miller saying that you can hook up you know,
Davis and put off to those folks as well as a bunch of other programs
out there that you know, there was sightings on East coast in the United
States that he was talking about. He could hook up with some flag rank
officers and they would know all about that. So it seems to me that
there are some very If I ever had an opportunity to cross examine a witness
that was supposedly written a letter like Commander Willard Miller did, I would ask
him what parts of this letter do you remember? You know, and then
find out, well, what parts are There's something you don't remember and why
don't you remember those things? So very fascinating detail in this document, And
when was the date of that document? This document was created in October.
On October sixteenth of two thousand and two, when doctor Eric Davis was able
to get a meeting with Vice Admiral Thomas Ray Wilson, and they met in
the Admiral's staff car, the backseat of the staff car behind the E.
G and G Building in Las Vegas, Nevada on that day, and Eric
Davis basically, as far as I can see, had some kind of a
recording device recording all the details of their conversation for an hour and ten minutes.
That's the only explanation I can see of how detailed this memo is.
I wouldn't think that someone from their own memory could reconstruct the actual dialogue that
he did does in this memo, and basically it is the recollections of Admiral
Wilson being shut down in nineteen ninety seven from access to a reverse engineering program
by a government civilian contractor who would not allow him to have access as j
two Joint chiefs of Staff second in command, who was in charge of all
the subcontractors and all the military intelligence departments. They said he did not have
a need to know what their program was about. Eventually they told him and
confirmed that they were a reverse engineering program of alien technology that was not this
world fascinating stuff. Wow. And this you know a lot of this sort
of rings of the MJ twelve documents, you know, and it's a very
similar, very similar in a lot of different ways. And you know,
there's it's going to be awful hard to convince, I think, to commence
everyone in the UFO community that this thing is one hundred percent right, or
even if it's you know, partially right. Um, there's that that would
kind of throw up a lot of red flags. And and uh, you
know he's saying he remembers part of it. Well that's interesting, but it
would really you know, like you said, if you could bring this person
into court and and and you know, have them testify about it, you
know, maybe you'd get some more information. Have you actually have you actually
yourself tried to get more information on this document by making contacts? Oh yes,
for sure. And not just myself, but there's a you know a
lot of the young guns out there as well, you know, Frank's Dalter
and Jan Hannah and all those folks that are out there doing their best to
dig deep and find out, uh the veracity or the falsity of this document.
Um, there's a very interesting thing that is mentioned on the last page
in this fifteen page memo, by the way, that you brought up a
very interesting point that indeed there could be some disinformation in this document itself,
because there's a gentleman by the name of Jacques Gazler who was a friend of
Admiral Wilson who met meets him at the Pentagon after this whole fiasco happens and
Admiral Wilson is asked to step stand down and not pursue this anymore or else
he's going to lose a couple of stars and be retired. Early Jacques Gansler,
himself a Pentagon official at the DoD, told Admiral Wilson that, you
know, yeah, UFOs exist, they're talking informally, but alien abductions don't
exist. That is an interesting twist at the end of the document that really
throws a kink into things for the UFO community, and you wonder what that
information was in there. For Wow, that is interesting. We have about
nine minutes to go to the last break we have in the show, and
so for the person lazy like myself out there that I just skimmed through it,
a little bit. Can you give some of the highlights and why you
think it's really important? Yeah, for sure. By the way, Martin,
I I realize that it is a lot to take in because I've had
this document under my perusal for over six months and have gone through all the
dates and details and organizations to vet them. So what I'm going to do
is I'm writing what I call it executive summary of this entire memo that will
be available for people to really just kind of get a flow of the things,
so that should be a little easier for folks to handle. That will
be up on the UFOI team Facebook page very shortly and on YouTube as well.
I'll get you a copy for sure. But there are so many things
in this document that seemed to ring through, including the basic idea that m
J twelve existed. They are talking about the fact that Admiral Wilson got confirmation
from various people in the Pentagon and these subcontractors that a group that was either
called m J twel or the Cabal or anything like that, that was in
charge of alien crashed craft actually existed. So that was something that the Admiral
was saying that he found out in this thing. A matter of fact,
when he called these subcontractors to finally confront them with what they they knew and
why he didn't get briefed about the situation, they actually started spilling the beans
a little bit about what was going on, and they could only go so
far, and then they said, it's a core secret, Admiral, we
can't tell you. Interesting, so, and what are some other things that
came up, and say, the conversations with Eric Davis and that part of
it that were you know that the listener interested in UFOs would like to hear.
Well, you know, there's all sorts of details in that document about
the idea that there were a crash at Roswell, New Mexico. Not only
that m J twelve existed, but the crash at Roswell, New Mexico happened.
The retrieved technology is being studied by these reverse engineering programs that are run
by civilian contractors. There's the whole idea that there was something called them biggot
list of need to know people that each of these organizations keep and unless you're
on their biggot list, which is bigot and it sounds very racist, but
it's basically an anachronism backwards. That stands for to Gibraltar, which was a
code name used during the World War two invasion at Normandy to start planning that
event, and they ended up the reverse of that instead of too Gibraltar to
jet biggot backwards as a codename of anybody who has a need to know for
a specific unacknowledged special access program. So when the Admiral met with the civilian
contractor, they showed him their biggest list and he was not on it.
There were no US presidents, no White House personnel, no Congressional personnel,
no military personnel on this list. Only a few Pentagon employee officials that oversee
the program. So those are very fascinating conversations that Eric Davis was having with
Admiral Wilson about the details of these programs. And basically, this was one
program dealing with one reverse engineering aspect of the whole phenomena, So you never
know how many others are out there. Interesting, well, you know how
how long ago Roswell was and if they brought forward some type of craft gear
and they were reverse engineering it, that's a long time. That's what is
that seventy you know years and how could they possibly keep that, you know,
quiet? First of all, how could they keep that quiet? And
if it's I'm talking specifically, if it is in the hands of a private
which I actually would agree, that is a great way to um, you
know, to hide, you know, keep out of Congress and you know
anything else is to get in the private sector. But how could this be
grandfather from it's generational at this point, So how could something like this make
it through generations of say reverse engineering or you know a company, um,
you know, working on trying to discover what these these things are and how
they work. We have about four minutes left. Okay, well, you
know that's the whole Bob Blazar story right there in a nutshell, which is
kind of strange. Bob Blazar comes out with or they come out with a
movie about Bob Blazar's very recently, and this memo comes out shortly thereafter,
basically confirming the idea that these civilian back engineering or whatever programs that we've got
working for the military are really hamstrung themselves. In the memo, it's mentioning
the fact that they have very slow progress in reverse engineering these special projects and
they are stuck using basically the personnel that are only on their biggot lists.
They can't access the wide range of scientific consultants out there in the world that
could help them, and they can only use their own facilities due to the
stovepiping and you know, the secret things that they have to keep, you
know, depending on their budgets too. So I kind of goes on for
decades from what this memo is saying, with very slow progress, which is
kind of flies in the fact of there could be also a you know,
a reverse or a secret space program that's already doing all this stuff. So
we almost have like two things going on at the same time, you know,
and you never know which ones are the correct versions of reality out there.
We're gonna be taking calls in an hour or two. But I just
I just happened to notice, and I can't really pay attention to chat too
much, but I noticed a question from a Jay Allan. He wanted to
know which remote viewer is mentioned in the memo. Um, gosh, you
know, it was two women, and I don't have the memo off the
top of my head, but I'll tell you who it was. It was
the woman who actually channeled an alien at the I think it was Right Patterson
Air Force Base, and she was me with some of the high brass there
that she had convinced that she could do this, and in reality, what
she did is she actually made an arrangement for one of the actual officers that
were there to become a channeler himself, and an alien craft showed up outside
the window at Right Patterson to do that. Forget her name off the top
of my head, but she's one of them very famous incident that's been written
about in ufology over the years. Oh okay, all right, So a
lot of people know my long time listeners know that I'm sort of skeptical about
certain things, and so a lot of things we're talking about tonight I'm sort
of skeptical about. I'm letting you talk to you. You know, you're
making a good case for things. But I will have to tell you that
Bob Lazarre is on my skeptical list, and a lot of people are not
happy about that. But I've still I personally think that, you know,
Jeremy did a good job at the movie. He did, but I still
think that I was trying to be convinced to believe the whole thing. And
I also watched the Joe Rogan Bob Lazar interview, the whole thing. It
was two hours. And the more I watch, the less I believe and
I the less I believe him. And that's not a popular view, but
it's it's the it's just a feeling, a gut feeling I have, you
know, maybe as an appraiser really looking into things and watching people and stuff.
But anyway, I'm not saying I'm an expert on people, but it
just my thoughts are still that I don't really buy it one hundred percent.
However, I do agree that a lot of really interesting things have come about
because of what Bob Lazar has said, so I will give him that.
And at this point though, we are about ready to go into break,
So my guest tonight is Michael Hall and we will be right back right after
these messages. All right, everyone, that's it for the free part of
the show. Thank you so much for listening. Our guests next week it
could be either Bill in Nancy Burns or doctor Bruce mccabee. It's going to
be one of the two sets of guests there, just waiting to get it
confirmed. So I want to thank everyone that helps out with the show.
Anyone can support the show. All that information is over at podcast ufo dot
com and you can catch the full shows on YouTube. If you can't you
can't help us out financially, you can go over there and check them out
that way. Anyway, thanks so much for listening, and remember to keep
your eyes to the sky.