Hey, a good Saturday to you. Come on answers. See, let's
get the show going here. I've been fascinated by the whole phenomenon of UFO
ET interaction. I've had what I have hoped is a group of the foremost
authorities on all things interactive with ets. We've had doctor av Loeb, We've
had Marion Rednick, a former NASA astronomer. We have had people who are
authors who have witnessed events of close and personal what they're usually called their call
the experiencers, and everything in between. And the answers are hard to come
by in terms of disclosure. When are we going to hear what the truth
is? When are we going to hear when the government's gonna basically say,
we're being observed from Afar by a group of off world types, extraterrestrials,
aliens, ets, whatever, and they're here, and by the way,
they are part of a collective. We don't know how it would come across.
But as you know, I have been somewhat frustrated for a long time
in the fact that we're not getting the whole truth. We get it piecemeal,
a little bit here, a little bit. They're an experiencer will write
a book, a former military intelligence officer will reveal some data. Somebody will
see something from an aerospace company and come out and talk about it with the
threat of harm. Some people will break their nondisclosure agreements and present some data
in the hopes of educating people. And it's just not coming across. You
know, we and you know, I have to praise, and I have
praised many times doctor av Lobe for being as transparent as possible about the fact
that, in his opinion, we are being observed. In his case,
as an astronomer, he's looking at alien probes, the OMAUO MAUA probe of
a few years ago, and then this probe that he scanned the Pacific Ocean
off of the New Guinea Islands last year and apparently got fragments. And we're
going to have doctor Lobe on the program later this year to discuss the what
he actually found in the Pacific Ocean and get an update. And what I've
heard recently is that he's going to go back again and do some more dredging.
But the bottom line is that's that's fragmentary evidence of a disclosure. You
know, how do we feel oh, doctor Loewe, he's you know,
he could say something like, yes, I've found alien metals. That's kind
of a nice story. It kind of reveals that we're being observed and there's
alien craft orbiting our planet. But what about these craft that are being cited
in the hundreds, if not thousands, every month around the world, in
these highly advanced unidentified aerial phenomenon or unidentified yeah UAPs or UFOs, you undidentified
flying objects. What's going on with that? Of even greater interest is what
is going on with those humans Earth, humans who are being contacted, who
are being abducted and taken on board the craft of alien beings in some cases,
and it hasn't been reported as readily as it used to be in the
nineteen nineties and two thousands. Alien abductions where people are abducted, their body
fluid is tested, in some cases, women's eggs, the ovum, in
some cases men's sperm is removed. What is going on with that? And
we haven't talked a great deal about the abduction and testing side of things because
it's not reported as clearly as it used to be a couple of decades ago.
Does that I mean that it has stopped. Doesn't mean that we just
don't have people reporting. It is the general public not interested in that material
anymore, and that kind of reporting, I don't know. It's hard to
say. And you know, I'm here in northern California and there are there
is a move on just north of me and Morin. We do have people
that are making sightings. But what's the status of disclosure? And I've said
this many times, why doesn't our government sit us down and go we are
being observed by aliens from this planetary system. It's hard to say if there
is a collaborative effort between the UFO, between the UFO occupants, the aliens,
and the United States government, what a cover up that would be that
would be. That would be a huge deal, and I think there would
be a tremendous number of people that would be angry. I for one,
am angry and disappointed in NASA JPL. One of my pet interests is Mars,
where we have verified, verified ruins of an alien ancient alien civilization.
We have verified ruins on the orbiting moon Phobus in the form of megalists and
monuments and other unusual megalithic stone works that are massive in size and shape.
We don't hear anything about that. And the whole astronaut Apollo missions are a
complete array of alien observation reported to us by the astronauts. Why we're not
that's not coming forward and being discussed. It's another problem. So, and
I've said this many times, you know, when it comes out through either
the Chinese or the from craft and rovers from India that Mars does have evidence
of ruins, I hope everyone in the administrative staff of NASA is fired or
reprimanded severely and exposed. I think losing their jobs would probably be enough.
I don't think anybody has to go to jail. But this is all very
very important data for us, and I say this all the time. When
we learn we are not the only ones on the planet, excuse me,
when we learn when we learn we're not the only ones in the cosmos and
that we are part of a collective or there are other alien beings that are
close by and our government's known about it, we evolve immediately. We are
not the only ones here, so everything changes, and that might be the
problem that our religion, the people who are the overseers of the various churches
know that when we know that we are a connected entity, we are part
of a collective, religion may not be necessary anymore. And so they're scared.
And so when NASA, when the Department of Defense goes to the religious
leaders and asks them, what would you say if we disclose this information?
What would you say if an alien race made themselves known? And for the
most part, the church heads are like, well, we wouldn't like that.
People wouldn't react. Well, I can't believe that. I think people
would be well mean this because religion is faltering, and religious religion doesn't really
take us very far. So today we are discussing, in kind of a
historic view, where we have been as a collective in receiving off world types,
the kinds of crafts, the kinds of interactions we've had, and more
importantly, the feat the characters, the people from the various heads of departments
and organizations here in the United States, the Department of Defense, the Pentagon,
independent scientific groups who are tasked with observing and tracking alien craft. And
so when we begin looking at the people who are involved historically, we get
a picture of how intense this entire field of inquiry is. Not just look
at the UFO. Look at the UAP. They're touching down. They're interacting
with people. These alien people are uh, these alien beings are in some
cases forcefully abducting people using stun rays so people don't resist too much, and
then carrying them or beaming them into craft for consultations, for examinations for in
some cases certain types of surgical procedures, which is doesn't sound very good.
So hey, and why are they doing that? We don't know, So
today we're going to find out with my guest today and the program is the
UFO Paradox, the Celestial and Symbolic World of Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon and my guess
is long time research investigator Keith Thompson. Hey, we're in the summer months
right now and people are thinking about getting away for a vacation. Perhaps you
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Ancients has one of the best tour groups around and we are going to be
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This week is a unique week for us here at Earth Agents, simply
because we're continuing the interest in the ua Ufo phenomenon alien interaction on Earth with
a new author, a new presidenter here on Earth Ancient's. His name is
Keith Thompson. He's written a new book called The Ufo Paradox and what makes
this book unique is it's a historical look at the phenomenon of alien interactions with
Earth. I call them observations. And Keith Thompson, our guest today,
is an author, independent journalist. He is also a former TV talk show
host and the author of a number of a couple of books, The Angels
and Aliens and Leaving the Left, and he's written a number of articles.
This is a good book for those of you who need what they call a
primer for the phenomenon, simply because he presents one of the most important early
identifications of what you would call UFOs. Carries us through the key players,
and we're going to talk about some very interesting people who have made inroads into
this phenomenon known as abductions, where aliens interact with human Earth humans, and
takes us into almost present day I should say, yes, present day phenomenon
and governmental reaction. So Keith, welcome to Earth Ancients. Great to see
you, Wep, it's great to be here. Thank you for that introduction
that gives us a lot of places to start in. Tell us why you
wrote this book and what your hope is for the reader. Good I began
paying attention to the UFO phenomena, I say, over fifty years ago,
and people do the math on that, And I said, were you're like
five years old, Well that's a nice that's a generous observation. I was
actually twelve years old. I was in the sixth grade. It was my
turn to give a current events class. We took turns bringing a story in
from the news when these things called newspapers were delivered on our driveway, these
big chunks of paper, and you'd cut out clippings and so forth. So
I cut out the clippings about a particular UFO siding in Michigan, near ann
Arbor, and brought it to my class and told the story about it.
And it was the one in which it was famously thought that the Air Force
investigator who came in to talk about it and take a look at it and
speak to the press about it, he let slip a phrase which he deeply
regretted it was misunderstood at the time. He said, I can't explain everything
we've seen here in Michigan, but there I can say, with perhaps some
feasibility probability, that maybe the one siding near the edge of town, near
the swamp. Then he qualified it. He said, could have been might
have been what's known as swamp gas. Swamp gas being a process with a
natural degradation of the leaves and twigs and elements in a river bed and so
forth a swamp. The conditions of a swamp caused luminescence strange lights to rise,
so people see the lights down at the swamp. Swamp gas leads to
that. So he did not say the entire sighting was reduced to that,
but the reporters jumped up from their chairs, ran out of the auditorium,
went to the line of payphones in the hall, which were set up for
this purpose, and called into their newsbuers and says Air Force says it's all
swamp gas. Complete and misunderstanding. So I told about this to my class,
and one of my class members asked when it came time for questions,
but do you think they're from outer space? And I said, well,
that's what some people think. That is one of the theories, but I
don't know for sure. But something was seen, and the question is what
something is seen? And someone knows, well, what what do you think
was seen? Then you know, everyone was real curious because I was the
correspondent on the on the spot, and I said, I don't know what
they saw, and I said that not as a dodge or you know,
pump the football down the field. I really didn't know, but I did
say the sightings are not consistent with the explicit explanation of swamp gas. I
probably didn't use the language as consistent with that's a little maybe more mature,
but I said it didn't sound like swamp gas. And the people in Michigan
said that isn't what we saw. So I was caught and and and and
excited by that very counterpoint, the very controversy. My teacher came up to
stand by me at that point and she said, I think that when missus
Lowry was her name, sixth grade teachers. She said, I think what
Keith is saying here. It's important to keep an open mind and ask relevant
questions. Then she turned to me and often the way a teacher will call
you by your full name, mister Thompson, that was quite a good report.
You have the makings of a scientist or a journalist, or maybe even
a detective. And then she said, follow the evidence wherever it leads.
Wow, she said, Gusto in enthusiasm. But two things got accomplished there.
She really said the right things about how one should approach life, whether
as a scientist getting to the nature of reality in the laboratory, a detective
who's got a who done it? They're trying to figure out who killed the
man who lives in the mansion at the top of the hill. Did the
butler do it? Did the chauffeur? I mean, you don't. You
don't eliminate clues. You look for clues, you look for coincidences, you
look for what doesn't fit. And the same with journalism, genuine journalism,
with any journalism, which is what drew me to be an investigative writer,
wants to get at the heart of things. So I ended up after that
class was over feeling. I described that event in the book in my classroom
event that was a kind of benediction. There was almost a blessing that had
been given to me, conferred upon me as a young person. Yeah,
took the world seriously, took life seriously. And here this adult figure treated
me as an aspiring adult, someone who had the makings of a grown up.
And it wasn't new to me. I came from a family where my
family encouraged me to and my brothers to explore things that interested us. But
that particular interaction with my teacher is what got me interested in the phenomenon.
I continued to pay attention to. It led to my first book, Angels
and Aliens. So with this book, my aim was really in the wake
of the twenty seventeen New York Times article that revealed the contrary to what we've
been told, and we had been told, the government has no interest in
these alleged events because they don't exist. There's no reason to think that anything
is going on. They're all hoaxes, hallucinations and misidentifications. That's almost the
mantra that we've heard. Anyway, we find out no. In twenty seventeen
New York Times, all the news that fit to print supposedly said there's a
Pentagon office that has been exploring and investigating, and here's the scoop on that.
So in the wake of that, I said, I want to come
back to this topic. I want to write the kind of book that I
would want to read for the intelligent reader who comes into the bookstore and says,
Okay, I don't believe in UFOs quote unquote. But I'm a reality
or in a reader. I'm an empis empiricist. I like to study and
learn. And here's a book about the UFOs called the UFO Paradox. This
guy sounds like he's on the level, sounds like he's tracked the facts and
tried to get at the facts. That's how That's the kind of book I
wanted to write for that it's the kind of book I would want to read.
Is not one that requires suspending or believing, believing or suspending common sense,
or believing in things for which there's not evidence. I've taken the age.
There's a lot of things I write about in the book that are beyond
the current scientific maps. But that's because the maps aren't up to date.
Paranormal, extraterrestrial, interdimensional, whatever terms we want to use, they're phenomena
that aren't on the maps of science. And I'll close this by simply saying
that if at a certain point, in covering the kind of things you cover
on this show all the time, areas of reality territories which have consistent bodies
of witness testimony, if those territories are not on the maps of science and
society and our sense of self. Then at some point it's wise to check
the maps. Are the maps? Has anybody checked them? Absolutely? Oh,
they haven't been updated since Descartes or Newton. So that's kind of what
I'm saying. Just as physics has moved on beyond quantum physics into excuse me,
from classical physics Newtonian physics, to quantum physics, I'm interested in aspects
of reality that relate to mind and its interface with matter, consciousness and the
material world. These phenomena are front and center. You know, you've been
covering this for, as you say, for six decades. Why is the
DoD, Department of Defense, the military, the United States military so reticent
to give us more information? We know that in nineteen sixty the requisition the
Brookings Institute document the basically find out how the American public would react to first
disclosure, and it was a terrible review. Most of it was that we
would go insane, we would commit suicide, religions would fall. And then
they followed it up a few years ago with another theological theological view of the
UFO phenomenon, where they're asking priests and rabbis the same question, and we
don't really know what the reaction was. But the hints were that that they
were saying some of the same thing, that the religion would be upset and
people would question their reality and so forth and so on. Why aren't they
asking people like Google and people who are in the social media phenomenon, which
is really I think a cross section of our mental state, what we think
how open we are personally. I think we're very open to a disclosure.
But what do you say about our government's reaction and the dissemination of information,
because it doesn't seem like they're very open at all. Well, you touched
on the possible ramifications of disclosure of this would lead to mass insanity and religions
would fall apart. While we're living in a time when you read the daily
newspaper, even without UFO disclosure, we seem to be living in extremely crazy
times, you might say. And the religious affiliations are changing rapidly. People
are dropping away from the mainstream Christian religions and seeking something different. There's a
category called spiritual but not religious. That's the way people identify increasingly, so
that idea also, I would just add, we've seen so many movies,
you know, close encounters of the third kind the day we are acclimated to
the idea, that the idea is out there, So why is there still
no straight talk? Well, there's two possibility. One is the government it's
got a pretty good idea of what this is about. And it could be
devastating, right, it could be very bad news for us. In some
way, I kind of don't quite follow the logic of that, because if
it's bad news, is that bad news causing anything to happen right now?
Is it the possibility of invasion? Well, they're not invading now. Is
it a threat? Well, what is the threat? Is it not threatening
us now? At the same time, there is evidence that whatever these events
are, these these the apparent craft that show up on radar and other sensors,
show up to eyewitness testimony, are having impact on our nuclear launch systems.
They I mean there, and the government knows that, the military knows
that they these lights and apparent craft come in and that the launch codes are
changed. So they're dismasing. Yeah, they are disabled now maybe they are
Maybe they they this larger reality, this larger intelligence understood what happened in Hiroshima
and Nagasaki, and there was an understanding in the Confederation of the Universe never
again. The Earth people have too much technology but not enough wisdom, so
we've got it if anything disrupted. So that's one possibility. I put out
a speculative. I love to shoot the shoot the stories late at night a
good old bull session. Could also be that the government knows these things are
going on but doesn't really understand them either. It could be that they just
don't fully understand what's going on, and therefore we can't expect a four star
general with a nice gray uniform to stand up with the Pentagon and given over
view of this and say, in other words, something with impunity is involved
in our airspace, changing our nuclear systems and interacting with us at its whim.
We don't know what it is, but we're looking closely at it.
Will keep you posted, Thank you, No questions please, no questions please.
We must just disassemble the news conferences in this so anyway that leads,
as you know, to a kind of a disconnect in public confidence. It's
similar to the basic structure of the phenomenon itself in that these sidings are reported
by people with credibility. There's no sign that people who report UFOs have mental
problems. Even the abductees have been studied as a group. While people who
report being abducted have difficulties adjusting, they have traumatic signs of trauma in their
lives, it would be consistent with such an event, but they do not
show a predisposition to mental illness or something. So we have people reporting for
generations now these extraordinary events. Then we have the agents of official culture,
in science, in media, and academia not saying we're going to investigate these
and get on it because this is evidence of something that's happening. No,
they have characteristically responded, there's nothing going on here. People go back home
to your little lives. Everything is fine. These are misidentifications, there are
illusions, they're hoaxes and so forth. Well, what that does. It
doesn't make when reality shows stuff that we're not willing to see, that doesn't
make reality go away. Reality says, okay, I'm going to go to
where you can't see me. I'm going to go underground. You drive me
underground, you refuse to look at me at eye level. Your authorities you
call them, aren't willing to pay attention and report that there's okay, we'll
go underground and so therefore it influences us at an even deeper level. It
influences at a deep level of consciousness, the kind of level that Carl Jung
talk with the collective unconscious. And that's a whole topic there we could get
into. But anyway, in any event, I don't expect a major disclosure,
except now here's the one I will completely well. I don't track the
disclosure world as closely as some of those who do in the political governmental circles,
congressional hearings and so forth. I have some experience in the congressional world
as a staffer, but that's been a while, and I never worked in
the defense sector. I never had clearance. I'd love to say I had
clearance, but I can't claim it. But I've been looking at what's been
going on with this Air Force officer named David Grush who last year came forward,
and I'll briefly summarize for your listeners and viewers who don't know, but
that most of them probably do. He has delved deeply and has come to
the conclusion that recovered craft and what he calls biologics, suggesting biological material pilots
deceased pilots have been recovered and have been offloaded to the aerospace industries, maybebe
McDonald Douglas. Given the relationship of these industries to the government, very very
tight relationships. They're almost like quasi governmental bodies at this point, Lockheed,
Martin and so forth. So the idea is he's delivered names, dates,
locations, places, and so forth to the Inspector General of the intelligence community,
supported apparently by other whistleblowers. So we may be on the verge of
a kind of breakthrough. We see leaders in both parties Senator Schumer on the
Democrat side, and Mike Johnson, the House of Representatives Republican leader and the
majority leader of the Speaker of the House. I should say both saying we
want the legislation in the National Defense Authorization Act for twenty twenty five to include
provisions for whistleblowers to come forward and not have their lives ruined. Daniel Ellsberg's
of the world won't have to risk going to jail, Edward Snowden's and Julian
Massages who were disclosing stuff about other and other errors. But it's the same
issue. If I can simply say that government classification is way overboard, it's
it's mostly see why cover your backside? That's why everything gets classified. Also,
it's a power trip if you were If you get to classify things,
you get to know the secrets with your other buddies, you know. I
mean, it's a it's a real buddy system, and it's time to stop
so rampantly and promiscuously classifying everything. So that's a broad answer. I haven't
I haven't given a it's good and you brought some very good points. Uh,
we don't have time to get into the specifics. But I think what
you're saying is that we should be hopeful that we'll have more uh revelations,
disclosures as to what's happening. If we don't, if if the if the
government misses the opportunity to support the whistleblowers coming forward, and if they essentially
quash it, smash it further, it will be the repetition of this existing
pattern of it isn't dealt with at the surface level intelligently and honestly, it
gets pushed down into the collective unconscious and gets weirder. So then we can
expect increasingly weird direct contact. Then maybe maybe the phenomenon frankly by the way,
maybe the contact that this phenomenon is actually if you might say, choosing
individual contacts knowing that the agents of official culture are a wall, they're absent,
they're not doing their duties. Well, that's what I want to I
want one of them's dealing with individuals. It's making contact with individuals. Yeah,
but that's been going on for a while, and you know, the
scenario that used to come out is like, why don't they land in DC
and say, hey, we're here, we want to speak to your to
your leaders. So that just doesn't happen. And I think if it's a
race of beings that's one thousand, ten thousand centuries ahead of us, they're
their mental state is different, and maybe they don't want to go that way
because of the group trauma that may be imposed in that scenario. So it's
hard to think. And I'm curious as a final thought on this, what
you would project or what you might prophesize as a possible scenario where some alien
group says, hey, welcome to the Cosmos group of planets, or we're
here to observe you. And because I think it's a great benefit to us
on an evolutionary scale, and I say this all the time. If we
are informed that we're not the only beings in our cosmos, we evolve,
We look at our life a lot more differently. And this cover up.
This is why I'm kind of upset about our government, especially the United States
government. Is why cover up something that is happening to us and has been
happening to us for many hundreds of years likely if not longer. Why not
release this information and allow us to work with it. You know what I
mean? Well, Okay, I'll tell you one of the reason. I'll
give applausible reason. And that sounds like it's almost something from a Hollywood screenplay.
Much of this often does sound that way. There is a group in
the Pentagon. Okay, let me pause and say there is alleged to be
a group, an informal group of officers in the various military divisions services in
the Pentagon who are high high level. When I say high level, I
don't mean a conspiracy per se. I don't mean to go that way.
But there's a collective consensus among many of the highest level decorated officers in the
Pentagon and the military forces in general, who just happened to be deeply conservative
religious conservatives, another deeply religious fundamental conservatives, who in addition are are lieutenants
and majors and admirals and generals. And there is a feeling allegedly by people
I have talked to. It's I don't have any sources because people are always
having to be careful about what they say. But the apparently this does.
It's referred to as the Columns group c O L L I N S.
Your listeners and viewers can google college group and find out what that refers to.
It refers to the idea that there's not a cabal, but a consensus
that this is dangerous. These are demons, by the way. That's what
they believe. The conservative Christians believe that the UFO is real. UFO is
are real, and it's demonic. Okay, so but frame of it is
not to be. We are not to disclose, we are not to interact
with this. In some sense, we must be willing to do spiritual warfare.
I don't know how deeply that's ingrained, how how deep and what and
trench at this alleged consent is, but that's one. That's one one position
that's put forward. You combine that with the average secular politician who doesn't necessarily
have that religious belief, but they they think they don't want to get they
don't want to get out on the on the front lines of this. Who
in Congress wants to be associated with UFO disclosure? There are a few the
Congress Member of Congress from Tennessee and a couple of Well, before he passed
away, Harry Reid was huge on this whole. Senator Harry Reid was huge.
I never got the opportunity to talk with him about this, but he
really was, and he was another followed the evidence wherever it leads. Yeah,
he followed. He worked with Robert Bigelow in Nevada's Yeah, oh yeah,
there are There are a few politicians who've been with John Glenn. Senator
John Glenn was involved in some of the disclosure effort. I didn't dock him
in all that history, but I do come at this from a historical perspective.
Part of what I want to do in the book the UFO Paradox was
to restore some of these lost lineages. We must not forget the history of
this phenomenon, otherwise we don't, for example, the current hope that there's
immediate disclosure coming out of this twenty seventeen disclosure that the government Pentagon Group has
been tracking it. That has led a lot of the millennials and Generation Z
people younger than me. But welcome to the Welcome to the chase, guys,
Welcome to pursuing this nomenon. One thing I would tell you is,
for nearly eight decades, ladies and gentlemen, the idea has been very ripe
that the lid on the government cover up is just about ready to blow sky
high. You could tell by the tone of my voice that I'm a little
ironic toward that. It's ironic. Yeah, that's my first UFO, not
my first UFO rodeo. But then again, but I'm not cynical about it.
And if I'm not tracking this and if there's if we are on the
verge of a significant breakthrough, then all the better. I'm in favor of
the transparency. I just I often say that people ask us your book about
disclosure, and I say, everything I say about this phenomenon is about disclosing
it. It's all about disclosure. But I'm interested, especially in the disclosure
of aspects of the phenomena that challenge our materialist, physicalist worldview that prevents psychic
paranormal phenomena, telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition, psychokinesis fancy terms for what sounds
fanciful, but the evidence in laboratory studies now as well as everyday experience,
we live in a conscious universe, a psychic universe. Psychic phenomena are real.
We all have events in our lives that we call coincidence when we think
like materialists, oh, that's just a coincidence, But there are meaningful coincidences
between mental states and physical phenomena that we all can attest to when we remember
those incidents in our lives and how we hold those do we do we allow
them to change us, to open up to the sense that we live in
a larger universe, or do we use them? And we often do?
Do we use them? Just to sort of put the lid back on,
That was an interesting day, That was an interesting exchange. What I saw
was unexplainable, but it's probably not much. I understand that response too.
I'm trying to give permission to people to understand that these are like calls I
call the UFI. I describe the UFO phenomenon as a call from the cosmos
metaphorically speaking, along with the near death phenomenon and psychic paranormal phenomenon in Jon,
these are all calls from the universe that says, after three hundred years
of pretending that we don't exist, it's time to respond to the call Earth,
Earth realm, respond to the call that you live in a universe that's
larger and more varied and more fantastic and amazing than you realize. Let's talk
about a few of the characters featured in your book, and we're not going
to have time to get to all of them, but I'd like you to
talk about Kenneth Arnold's sighting in nineteen forty seven, which kind of set the
stage for future observation techniques. But what was so unique about his sighting and
actually what did he see? Great Grattion. I call it the creation story
of modern UFO phenomenon, in the same sense that Genesis is the creation story
in our Christian Biblical tradition. You don't have to be a believer to know
that the first book of the Old Testament is Genesis, and it describes in
the beginning, there was darkness on the land, and then there was light,
and so then the word became flesh and so forth. Not here to
quote the Bible directly, but likewise. Kenneth Arnold, private pilot, June
twenty fourth, nineteen forty seven, was flying over near Mount Rainier, Washington,
and saw nine objects through his cockpit windshield, flying in formation. He
was a skilled, experienced private pilot. He knew how to clock them twelve
hundred miles an hour, and he described them. When he called them in,
he said, is there anything like this out here today? They said
no, like what he said, Well, I see these things, these
these parent these events, these happenings, these parent craft skipping with the way
a saucer would skip over water. He referred to the motion. He didn't
say they were shape like saucers. But then they got reported by the news
media. When he landed, the reporters were already waiting for him, and
skipping like saucers became shape like saucers. That was the first sort of confusion
in the creation story. But I came up with some evidence that something even
more remarkable about that sighting hadn't been reported. After he died, his daughter
Kim Arnold, came forward and said, Okay, I'm here to tell the
full story that my father felt was too fantastic to tell at the time.
He was always astonished, Kim Arnold said his father. Her father was astonished
and perplexed by the continuing assumption that what he had seen that day was technology,
hardware, nuts and bowls, spacecraft. He said, he didn't see
anything like that. He told us that these nine objects seemed to be pulsating,
They had different degrees of density from opaque to translucent. They changed their
shape in some respects. They were blue, white, light and shimmering,
and they had the kind of a heartbeat that was similar to the human heart.
Remarkable kind of set of descriptions and imagery. Then he further told his
daughter they it was like I got a deep, deep impression. I can
only call it a deep intuition that these were from another dimension that is actually
very close to us. Then it has to do with where we go after
this life. Wow, and these phenomena were from the afterlife, from where
we would call that's something to do with mortalities. He was kin talking to
his daughter and kind of giving his impression, and this is what she was
telling the reporter. Yeah, well, he told her privately, this is
sort of the inner secrets of the family. And after he died. I
don't know if the assumption was or even the request is, Kim, you
carry the ball. After I died, I'm already known as the flying saucer
guy, and it hasn't helped me at all to be associated with this.
I don't want to come forward and say, well, in fact, what
I've kept to myself is the following. So when I'm gone and that's over,
maybe you can come forward somebody that could have been how it happened.
But she said, my father wanted me to make this clear. This is
what happened. Here's another detail. She said, in our family home after
my father landed back in Boise, Idaho that day, in the days thereafter,
there appeared in our house orbs of light, orbs of light, different
colored light floating around, like out the close encounters of the third kind.
So if this is totally just a physical event in the sense that this is
here and that's there, and we have local reality, and we have local
reality over in Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh and San Francisco or different regions, you know,
different places in physical space, then why would this phenomenon or how could
this phenomenon have come home with him if you will, from over Mountaineer back
to Idaho in their family home. There was a psychic field effect going on.
This is the paranormal writ large, makes it harder to deal with the
phenomenon than it would be. It's amazing enough if it's just extraterrestrial craft.
And by the way, mixed in with this might be might be extraterrestrial craft,
but they didn't appear that way they appeared. It's interesting to think about
what if this sighting. If Kenneth Arnold had told the full story in nineteen
forty seven about the living beating heartbeats it seemed to be from another land,
he probably would have been asked to take a psychiatric exam as a condition for
keeping his pilot's license. So this is actually the creation story of the UFO
phenomenon, far more rich phenomenon that behaved far differently than he described at the
time, and followed him home in the form of lights and other synchronistic experiences
of a paranormal kind in the family home. It's funny the way you describe
this, Keith, because it's like this observation that Kenneth made was for him
personally. It wasn't that they are just this craft was moving on. He
was affected in such a way that it was for him. It was a
personal revelation, whether it was intended to be or not. It's a little
bit like Ezekiel's wheel in the exactly when I quote Biblical references, sometimes people
say, oh, Thompson is saying that the Bible is filled with UFOs.
No, no, no, you're taking the modern UFO reference and then sticking
in in the Bible. I'm saying there are descriptions of events in the Bible
that have echoes of these events. I'm not saying Moses burning Bush was really
a burn revolving spacecraft. But I'm referring to the larger realm of religious miracles
that get explained in religious terms by the Old Testament mentality. In other words,
different mindsets, different cultural mindsets. We may be observing the same phenomena
for centuries and across different cultures, different worldviews, in different periods of history,
and that it gets translated according to the belief systems of different Maybe it's
a common meta phenomena, a super phenomena that gets translated into local regional perspectives,
such as the fairy faith of the Celtic cultures very faith. Well,
let's not bring fairies into this. We all know that that's just you know,
lore is just myth. Mine is the true religion. We know how
this thinking works. There are abductions of children in the fairy traditions. Does
that make them Does this make it all equally laughable? Or does it say
that there is a larger phenomenon that appears in previous times and we end up
calling those stories mere fairy tales, but in our time the phenomenon is real.
Jacques Vallet, the French astronomer, was one of the first to say,
I think we do better by expanding the framework for this. We allow
the UFO Saucer frame of reference to be real, but we realized that that
frame of reference is a limited frame of reference in a larger mythology, in
the positive sense of mythology, a larger framework of human interactions with unknown phenomena
that seemed to be beckoning us to a larger identity. We're going to take
a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will
return shortly with My guest today Keith Thompson, discussing his brand new book,
The UFO Paradox. Be right back. My guest today is author and research
investigator Keith Thompson. He has written a new book called The UFO Paradox,
The Celestial and Symbolic World of Unidentified Aerial Fine And we're looking at the history
of UAP UFO research. Now. It's interesting to note that Kenneth Arnold is
kind of the beginning. But as we are developing nuclear fusion and we are
evolving these phenomenon, these UFO has begun to come more in waves. The
government, our government, the United States government is overwhelmed with it and they
open up different departments. And I want you to describe one of the key
people, which is doctor Allan Heinik, who is an astronomer. And I
don't think he knew what he was getting into when he started, but let's
talk about him because he's the key figure. I want you to talk about
one aspect of him which I found was very interesting, which is he was
a hardcore scientist, one of the emperical data, but became a believer as
more people came forward and described their interactions with off World Times talk about Alan
Heidig Allen. Heydig was an astronomer at the Ohio State University. I believe
observatory. He had a good, good standing, good reputation. I don't
know how exactly he came into the into the story, but the Air Force
liked him and he wanted to make a contribution. Frankly, it has said
that at the time he thought the these these events could probably be explained in
London. Yes, yea. Even if he didn't dismiss all of the Michigan
sidings. He he you know, he he was a man of science.
He said, you know, if there are claims that of phenomena that are
beyond our framework, we have to examine them very carefully to eliminate other hypotheses.
Let's use critical thinking with the Air Force like that, because they said
this is our guy. Now when I say they like that, it's clear
that the military had decided that these were real, A significant number of them
were, but for various reasons that they couldn't. The public would not be
ready to handle the news, especially in the news that we can't we're not
in charge, we can't control it. We really can't explain it. So
the unexpected. The unspoken agreement between them was unspoken that Heinek is going to
handle this for us case after case. Well, in case after case he
did handle it. In that he said, well, that wasn't likely an
extraordinary phenomenon at all, that that one was probably prosaic. But as you
say, over time, by precisely being a man of science and a man
of integrity and truly an empiricist, follow the evidence where it leads, he
was led increasingly to go in and study these abduction cases. He went to
Pascagoula, Mississippi to talk with the two witnesses. I went to past Googoula,
in working on this book, to talk with Calvyan Parker, one of
the two witnesses from the nineteen seventy three Past Gagoole incident where two fishermen were
hauled board to spacecraft one night. So he came in and said about that
case, these men have had a real experience, whether it's from with something
that is from off the planet in an extraterrestrial sense, or he said,
perhaps some aspect of our physics would allow us to understand these are coming from
a parallel dimension that somehow translates itself into the lives of actual people and then
goes back out again something not from this dimension. So he was willing to
entertain big hypotheses. Finally, the Air Force didn't like that, and I
asked him a question once. I said, doctor Heinig, what was it
like when the abductions entered the story? And he laughed. He said,
oh, I can still remember my response, Keith. He said, oh,
great, that's all we need. We're having a hard enough time explaining
the possibility that there are these objects and sometimes they're associated with apparent passengers,
but now the apparent passengers seemed to be interacting with humans and taking them aboard.
He said, this was a massive headache from one sense. But he
said, if you're asking me whether I thought it was ever justified to simply
ridicule and dismiss that because I didn't fit my belief system, I would never
have been able to justify doing that As a scientist. And Jacques Valet,
who was my colleague at the time, we both understood that while we couldn't
necessarily take these at face value, we couldn't stiffly dismiss them either, And
I felt incredibly reinforced in my own approach to this as a journalist, to
follow the evidence wherever it leads, And so he said, we don't know
whether these are from outer space, other galaxies, We don't know whether they're
from other dimensions. But the reports of people being taken aboard these apparent vehicles
are too common to widespread to simply ignore. And that's the spirit of all
this. I don't have final answers, but I'm holding the questions in place
by the evidence that continues to emerge. Yeah, let's talk about the face
to face interactions, because we're talking nineteen This really begins to become a major
phenomenon in the early nineteen sixties and then in the seventies and eighties, but
the abduction phenomenon, And we're going to present some people that you feature in
your book right now. You mentioned Calvin Parker, who is in Mississippi.
Let's talk about his case specifically, because here we are, and these individuals
have no clue what a UFO is, have no clue that other et civilizations
are visiting Earth and they are being taken aboard their alien, highly advanced off
world vehicles. Let's talk about Calvin Parker and his unfortunate event, because this
poor guy was severely traumatized, but he retained enough of his experience to describe
it. And this is so long ago most people forget about it. Let's
talk about And that's one of the reasons I wanted to bring in the book.
I it was fifty years old, and I said, I'm going to
go to Pascagoula at the deep South. If that doesn't get much deeper south
than Pascagoula. If you're deeper south than Pasca Googola, you are in the
Gulf of Mexico. So did you actually was Calvin still alive when you interviewed
him? He was, He's now passed away. This is twenty twenty four.
He passed away last year at twenty twenty three. I went in twenty
twenty two. He was already suffering from cancer, but he was able to
get around and he was still willing to talk with me, and we talked
on the phone. He said, mister Thompson, you're welcome to come down.
I appreciate your openness. I don't ask you to believe me. You
know, the more I use his voice, the more I quote what he
told me, I'll slip into his dialect with grace, with the greatest of
he's that's deep South where he leaves south, and it's I do that with
great respect because I didn't I didn't suspend my you know, my objectivity.
But at the human level I was able to he'sa ad, come on down,
have some white, white rice and red beans, and we'll talk about
this. I'll take you to where it happened, and we'll meet some other
people too. So I went down anyway, Here's what here's what I not
only learned by going down there to spend time with him, but also from
the case. He and his friend Charlie Hickson. One night were fishing on
the back year what years is again, nineteen seventy three, more than fifty
three, fifty one years ago and Charlie Calvin was younger. He said,
Charlie, you're taking us to a place to fish where the police are going
to pick us up. This is no trespassing. And Charlie said, yeah,
it's no trestassing. But they don't ever let they don't ever cause this
problem. We'll we'll be all right, casting their lines and out in the
river, and he's Calvin sees blue lights flashing on the water. He said,
well, Charlie, I told you now, we're not only going to
get arrested, you're going to have to bail me out because I told you
the police is here. Look at them lights. Well, they would have
been happy to have it be the police, because it wasn't the police.
They turned around and it was a craft, strange craft, a saucer or
shape oblong and so forth that opened the door seamlessly. Out came two creatures
that were not actually typical of Central casting, the humanoid alien types. They
were a different body type, pulled these boys in, lifting them off the
ground. Okay, this is what they reported. They invested. They put
them both through seemingly medical examinations, including something like a what began what that
was not even possible for them to know about. Apparently like a ct scam
went up and down their body and only technically that scan existed, but there
wasn't anything like that in Pascagoulba. So again, magical magical realism going details
that are surreal. They long story. Short After disagreeing, Charlie said,
we've got to report after they were put back out on the on the ground
and the paralysis that held them in place, was lifted, the ship disappeared.
Didn't just fly away, but it seemed to disappear the way a TV
set would be turned off. So again, it has paranormal magical qualities in
addition to the fact that it appeared to be a physical event with technological features.
Calvin Charlie said, well, what are we going to do now?
And Calvin Young Calvin said, well, we ain't going to do nothing but
go to work tomorrow. IWS got this new job, and I don't intend
to get this made public. He was very aware of the implications of this.
He did not want it to have happened. He didn't want to talk
about Charlie thought that the Mississippi might be in under a full scale invasion by
something, so he called the air force. They said, we don't deal
with this anymore. The call the police. So they called the police.
The police officers, you were abducted by aliens? Were you come on in
boys, you know? Rolling their eyes. They put them in separate rooms,
doing good police work, got them to repeat their stories over and over
and over separate till at one point the sheriff believe his name was Sheriff Diamond,
said okay, here's what we're going to do. The night's about over.
The guys are exhausted, they're traumatized. He put them in the same
room without letting them know. He put a voice activated tape recorder in the
desk drawer and said, boys, hang out here, get your coffee.
If you want, I've got some paperwork. We'll let you go. His
purpose was to get these two guys talking, and he assumed that if they
were if they were hoaxers, they would be saying things like, well,
we seem to be pulling the wool over their eyes now again. We got
to act real scared because this is this is how we're going to get to
Hollywood. This is what the debunkers always say, right, you guys just
want publicity Instead, the tape recording revealed something far more ominous. They were
both terrified. They talked like too many who had just been through a natural
disaster, like they've been through the bombing of Dresden and survived. These were
truly shell shocked. Calvin was in tears. Charlie said he needed a drink.
Calvin said he got to get sleeping pills. He'd never had them before.
Charlie said, I'd never I always thought maybe there was something up there
then then then aliens or whatever, but I never thought it would have anything
to do with me. The sheriff, when you heard this tape said,
if these boys are acting, they ought to be in Hollywood. I'll help
get them a ticket there. They deserve an Academy award. Well, anyway,
that's that was the quality. That was this pivotal case of supporting the
veracity of what they're saying. So the Interestingly, many years later, I'd
say about five or six years ago, here's an interesting development. Calvin not
only did not want any publicity later in life, he actually began to go
by an assumed name. He changes his name from Calvin to Randy. I
don't know what last name he used. I don't know if he didn't legally
change it. But he got jobs and employment and signed the lease agreement,
says Randy, and well it was one name. Randy and his wife were
at a funeral down in Pascola. They signed into the funeral home and Randy
Calvin Parker had forgotten and he started to sign his name on the register,
Calvin Parker, and he walked away, and someone came up and said,
well, wait a minute, This is Calvin Parker. Hey, he's a
guy got red, he got abducted back then, is that you Calvin Parker?
Because Calvin Parker had been laying low all these year, Calvin closed his
eyes, he said, oh, oh no, and his wife said,
this isn't right. We're at a funeral of a man that we knew.
This isn't right to do his funeral like this. Let's go. So on
the way to the car. Why Nett is her name? Why Nett park
She turned to Calvin, who had gotten a request just that week from a
publisher, would you please reconsider would you do a book about the famous Pascaboula
event, which he kept turning down, partly because he says, I'm not
a real writer. They'll they'll have a writer rewrite it for me. It
won't be my truth. He was actually very skeptical, and also he didn't
want publicity. But finally Why Nett turned in and said, well, Calvin,
do you need any more evidence? You've got to write that book.
You can't keep having this happen. Here's another detail. It turned out that
in all their years together they were together when the abduction happened. They were
childhood sweethearts. This is almost inconceivable in today's world. They stayed together.
She never asked Calvin exactly what had happened that day, and he never wanted
to tell her. He was so deeply disturbed by it that the unspoken agreement
was, Calvin, you will tell me what it was when you're ready.
They went on and had a child together. They had a life together.
Calvin told me when he met me, said, mister Thompson, I don't
know what your relationships are like, but can you imagine having a wife of
twenty five years a four year and you never talk about something like that.
It will take a toll. And this took a toll. But he felt
that moment in the funeral home when, when he was no longer Brandy,
his deeper unconsciousness, sign your real name. This isn't working out being Randy,
so I write in the book. It was like Calvin Perker was able
to say, so long Randy, been weird to know you. I don't
need you anymore. He became Calvin again. He wrote the book, and
when he wrote the book under his own name and it was published, had
a book signing there in Pascal go Well. People came out, they said,
Calvin Parker's back. He wrote a book. Finally, people came out
to his signing and said, can I take you aside and tell you what
I saw that night, Calvin, I was working at the shipyard down the
road and I saw the lights. Oh interesting, So fifty years later by
a man taking on his true identity again it stepping up to the experience and
said, yes, this happened. I wish it hadn't, but it did.
And then other witnesses came forward, so it was like a time release
revelation. Yeah, he was like one of the further very early abductees other
than Barney and Betty Hill, who's also a little earlier than him. But
can you describe in this wonderful Keith that you were able to meet with him
before he passed, because that's the man himself. What did he describe?
What he mentioned in his words, what these aliens look like. They were
big and buld g uh. They they look like they they were mud covered.
They were just like a blob. They had they did not have facial
features. He actually said that he felt when they picked him up, he
felt that a stab in his body, that perhaps he had been injected with
something, and even aboard the craft they went through this medical examination. He
said that the one creature that had carried him in, he said, it
sidled over to the wall and kind of laid again, stood against the wall,
and it seemed to shut down. He said, that's what I thought.
Maybe it was a robot. So then incomes into the room comes a
more feminine female creature, a different more morphology with with long fingers, extremely
long fingers, gray features or no, I don't remember the color. But
she opened his mouth and he put her finger down his throat, and he
says, you know it, that what should call it? Thing that hangs
down there in your throat, that what you might call it? And the
juvia, And she says, I'm sorry. I don't mean to be hurting
you. And I thought to myself, well, it's a little late for
that. You just put your finger down my throat. He had a marvelous
sense of humor and irony about this, not a well educated man in official
terms, even near the end of his life. Well, he told me,
I said, what's it like not being believed? We were sitting on
his back porch, screened in area, next to a beautiful lakey into a
small boat he used to go out on and we were listening to just right
out of Central casting, this said ODIs Redding singing on the dock of the
bay. He had it wired in his back in a nice music setup.
Who were listening to that? I said, what's it like not being believed
so radically disbelieved? He said, well, I'll tell you something. I
understand it. I understand these debunkers. They have a role to play in
all of this, because if you have not experienced this, the natural human
thing is to ridicule and push it all away. He said, you could
talk with me till the cows come in. I'm never going You probably noticed
I don't do what they call embellishing. That's the term I've been told.
That's when you embellish your story to make it more convincing by adding more details.
I'd like to tell you new detail, but I don't have any new
day. I can only tell you the truth as I recall it. And
he said, to this day, I do not know exactly what they were
or where they were from what happened, but I do know it happened.
So that's funny you mentioned that because most of the classic abductions with these extremely
advanced beings have no language. You don't, they don't speak, but it's
telepathy. Now, did Kelvin have a telepathic conversation or was he spoken to
in any way? No, I'm I'm glad you're clarified that I meant to
say communicated. It was so she's communicated to him. I'm sorry, I
didn't mean to hurt your throat, and he thought he communicated back, well,
it's a little late for that. Get your finger out of my throat.
But it was all communication. And I said, do you know what
that means to Calvin as far as that goes that if it happened telepathically,
it means that you have a capacity for telepathy. It means that probably all
of us have a capacity for telepathy. It's part. It's probably a latent
human trait. And he said, well, I never thought of that.
He said, that's why I need someone like you who's a writer come in
and help me out. That's a good point, Waitley, he said that
we all are psychic. Come out here, was Mark. I said,
I'm not your authority, but haven't you had experiences in your life when you
when you kind of knew what someone was thinking or you were thinking of so
on, and they showed up. He go, I have those all the
time, and I've had them even more. I think this thing has probably
made my what you call my psychic abilities even stronger that but that's not something
you want to talk about, Casuh either. He had a one sense of
what was smart and not smart to talk about in terms of this stuff.
And I had I told him. I sold him of some of my own
experience. I had a near death experience in my twenties, and I won't
go into that deeply here, but it's in the book. And I had
come back from that was before the near death experience had been made famous by
Raymond Moody with his book Life After Life. And I told people when I
recovered from a near drowning off the coast of Hawaii, and somehow I got
brought into the cove, a quiet cove back in my body after being out
of my body and seeing the body swimming. The remarkable when you see yourself
from a different perspective in that way, and I came back in. And
when I said that I had experienced dying, but I had come back,
my friends who'd been on the coast, on the edge of the water,
hoping that I would survive this. We were all out body surfing. I
got out too far. I got taken away by the riptide. One of
them said, we thought you had given it up out there. I said,
well, I did. I came right to death. I think I
died, and I came back. I went to a place that was like
and blah blah blah. Yeah. And I could tell by the way they
looked at me, this is not a good cocktail conversation that if I was
going to And because nobody knew about the near death experience, I'm old enough
to have been to have had one prior to it becoming a household term.
The stages of the tunnel, visiting your relatives, reviewing your life, reliving
your life. I had all of that, and I told everybody about it,
and I basically the feedback I got was, you're a candidate for psychotherapy.
You're going to have a lot of work to get over this trauma where
you believe well now, all of them eventually told me later when they learned
about the near death experience, Keith, you were describing a real experience that
day That's why I have such affinity for the UFO witness, because even though
I've not seen a UFO myself per se, I have had larger than life
experiences that I've got really good feedback from others. Don't talk about that because
you make us nervous. We like to think that reality is settled and you
are bringing it out. That's so funny you mentioned that, because I think
it is disturbing to people, and I have the same issue when I speak
to people about UFOs and alien interactions. It is unsettling because it's the unknown
that we cannot We were not told how to react. And this is why
I'm very unhappy with our own government, is that they're not helping us.
They're not helping us by giving us parameters to process. How do we process
this data? We're getting it from outsiders like yourself, who are giving us
a history of this interaction, but without a government or a lesson or a
teacher or someone to show us the way, we're being traumatized and we're left
to our own devices in how to process. So many exampsm When you study
the history of how worldviews change, what called paradigms worldviews prevailing worldview holds in
place until there start to be anomalies, start to be aspects that don't fit
the prevailing picture. Then there's an effort. Well, we got to resolve
the anomalies. They're probably just measurement problems in the scientific procedures. We need
to get better calibrations. There must be some glitches in the way we've designed
the experiment, but there aren't any real anomalies. We've really answered the main
questions. Well, that's a historically popular belief. One of the big ones
was when an Italian astronomer named Galileo did some computations and he invented or had
access to a device that had recently invented, called a telescope, and he
used that telescope in his computations to come up with some interesting news from the
universe, namely that the Earth orbited the Sun, not the Sun orbited the
Earth. There came knocks on his doors, so to speak, from the
Vatican, the men in robes, the religious authorities, saying you've got to
stop saying this, And he said, well, you don't have to.
Galileo says, you don't need to take my word for it. Look at
my calculations and look through my telescope. Though that's a historically famous anecdote.
They refuse to look through his telescope. They refused to avail themselves of the
very procedures that would have allowed them to empirically see the same thing Galileo saw.
So just think of all the other ways in life you present evidence to
people to trust me. You don't have to trust me that the results of
this government program actually led to the opposite outcomes. Just look, ever,
since we implemented that act to get rid of X Y or Z, we've
made x Y or z more of a problem. That's called evidence. Some
people said, well, that wasn't the reason we need more of that program.
So anyway, Galileo finally turned out to be right. I was always
right. There was nothing new. Nature wasn't revealing anything new. It took
us time to resolve this, and I think it was in the nineteen sixties
or some time embarrassingly later, like almost a Saturday Night Live comic episode where
the Where the Where the Vatican comes knocking again and says, never mind,
never mind, we were wrong about that. I guess that you were right
about the Earth orbiting the Sun. Exactly, and that's what we're dealing with.
I think in these other things, these other phenomena there, we're currently
existing. We're living in a time when the prevailing paradigm, that is,
for some various reasons, said, we're not going to deal with the effect
of consciousness. We're not going to ask questions about it. We're going to
assume that the world is entirely made of dead matter, spinning, and tiny
particles called molecules that can't tiny particles called molecules that can't communicate with each other,
but they do communicate with that we appear to live in a totally psychic
universe. Has how we can explain such things as the Nobel Prize Science Nobel
Science Prize one or two years ago was given to the experiment of Entangled Particles
Angled phenomena tangled photons, which just briefly stated a device would send out two
photons in completely opposite directions in far great distances, and found that no matter
how far part they were, and no matter what kind of efforts were made
to control for some kind of a problem in the experiment, the two particles
remained in communication with the two like particles called photons remained in communication, each
influencing the other. That's not supposed to happen, but it opens the door
to the paranormal, to the near death, to the phenomena of the near
death experience, the out about experience, and took precognition to let the clairvoyance.
So I'm not asking anyone to take beliefs on board, just asking to
look at the evidence and see that it points to them. Just that we
live in a larger, more inclusive realm than our official maps are telling us.
The books called the UFO Paradox, the subtitle is The Celestial and Symbolic
World of Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. As we close, Keith, I want you
to talk a little bit about one of the great observers of the abduction phenomenon,
doctor John Mack, who I knew personally, who was taken from us
at a very early age, unfortunately, and I want you to talk about
a little bit about his Zimbabwe research. What made mac so important was the
fact that he didn't stay within the United States and study the abduction phenomenon in
our country. He literally ran around the world and interviewed people who had had
apparent abductions. Talk about and you featured this in your book. For those
of you listening, excellent example of an abduction phenomenon seen by excuse me,
not an abduction, but a UFO landing and actual beings seen by a large
group of people. So talk about the Zimbabwe event. Yes, in nineteen
ninety four a school in Zimbabwe called the Aerial School a R I e L.
Not aerial as in outer in and out in terms of the sky.
The kids were playground on the playground a recess. All the teachers and staff
were at a meeting, which is in some ways almost symbolically interesting that there
was that kind of segregation of that happened. All the kids were out on
the playground sixty seventy or more, and somebody caught a glimpse of a light
off to the side, coming through the trees, and it began to resolve
itself to appear to be a kind of unusual craft. It seemed to break
into other craft. There were creatures, aliens, beings who stepped outside,
walked in strange ways, had big, dark eyes. And a little girl
named Emily Trim got close enough locked eyes with this creature and felt that there
was some deep transmission of infer again telepathic. She later reported that she was
being told to be careful about technology. Human beings must be careful about don't
get too technologized, was her eight year old way of saying it, that
that we were facing environmental calamity eventually. So this was seen by multiple students.
They separated the students, they all drew pictures of it, and John
Mack was told about it. It was called because he was understood to be
doing this kind of work in the United States. So a BBC correspondent called
him, as I described in the book, So doctor Mac, we need
you here in Zimbabwe. Can you get here? This is beyond my pay
grade And I'm already being called a lunatic for taking it seriously, need some
backup here. So sure enough Mack flew in met with the students. Because
he was a psychiatrist, he had a good manner of being able to draw
the kids out and another example of a researcher and empiricist being willing to follow
the evidence where it led and talk with these students and a document a siding
that was probably the most credible mass sighting of our time. But because it
was the children on the playground without any adults. It's almost like a built
in control as a way to well, the children probably just made up all
of these similarities and made up all these details as an exercise, just real
briefly. Emily went back to era A school decades later for a reunion.
She met with a local indigenous spiritual tradition who she had never met before when
she was there as a student, and she'd been struggling in her life because
her family did not support her in terms of coming to terms with it.
And he told her that you're asking me whether you should talk about this.
Yes, you must talk about it. It happened to you as a child,
and you must speak your truth. And it is important for you to
speak your truth. You should shout your truth. So her parents, who
were Christian, told her at the time, this couldn't have happened, Emily,
it couldn't have happened. It's not in the Bible. Keep quiet.
And Duke, the spiritual teacher back in Zimbabwe decades later, said you must
talk about it. You must shout about it. She followed his path.
She had to turn around in her life by finally saying, what had happened
to me? Did happen to me. What I experienced was real. I
don't understand it now. I can't explain it. But do I interview her?
Keith? Did you interview her? I know I tried to get in
touch with her. She's become over. I don't think she wants to be
the UFO girl anymore. All signs she's thriving in her life and finding her
own bearings. Was there more to her story than just not being a technologist
earthlans being technologist? Was there more specifics that she presents on alien perspective of
earth lanes? I don't recall, uh, I don't recall many details along
those lines. And I don't think I had to choose in the transcripts of
when I worked with the trans session recorded, so I've quoted some stuff,
but so I don't want to be definitive. It's a great documentary about the
aerial phenomenon. The title of what Randy Nickerson is the director of Randall Nickerson.
Look up his name anyone listening and look up you can google that.
I believe it's on Amazon. That's a documentary though right as a very as
a documentary that shows John Matt coming in and if I saw that years ago.
Quite quite a great piece of work, right, fantastic. Uh,
this has been great. We've come to the end of our program again.
The books called The UFO Paradox just came out. Keith just told me.
It just came out. You can get it on Amazon and guess what,
John narrates the audible version of it, which you can also get. I
guess we're going to have to wait a few days for that to come out.
Correct, Actually John didn't, I did, I'm scarry Keith, Yeah,
Keith, So yeah. The book is now available on Amazon or bookstores
as a physical book, paperback ebook available through the online sources, and the
audiobook which I did narrate. And it's just got delayed in terms of getting
it ready. We hope to have it ready for the print edition, but
such as it is, so it'll be on in a few weeks. So
it'll be all kinds of ways to access it. Okay, Now, do
you have a website. I do. My website is www dot Thompson at
large, dot Compson at large, ASP at large, Thompson at Large.
I can get emails there and there'll be links to how to get hold of
the book and I'll also mention that Keith is going to send a selection of
images that we'll have on our Facebook page. Go to Facebook or The Angent's
International page, and also the group page, and we'll have a few highlights
of this interview and the new book, The UFO Paradox. As we conclude,
what would you like to leave the audience in terms of thoughts and why
they should purchase the book? Well, I think it's I do think it
is. I tried to write the kind of book i'd want to read about
the phenomenon. There are so many different aspects. I didn't cover every conceivable
issue, but I tried to give a kind of a review, including restoring
some of these historical lineages, some of the key players in the field,
but also to prevent to present just a solid witness to the quality of the
evidence, the quality of the witnesses, and to this, nevertheless, this
impasse which characteristically forms witnesses give testimony to extraordinary phenomena, the debunker class claiming
to be genuine skeptics, but essentially our working as debunkers and scoffers to say
no, it didn't happen. These things don't happen. Go back home in
the space. In that kind of stalemate and deadlock, the phenomena gets pushed
down into symbolic psychological realms. I'm trying to flush it back up and make
these witnesses live with all the dimensions that you and I have. These are
real stories to happen. These are real things that happen to real people,
and they have the courage to tell their stories. Of what I would say
to readers personally and listeners is, if you've had your own experiences with non
ordinary phenomena, is it a good idea to hold a news conference. Probably
not. You may probably don't want to go totally public and write a book
about your experience. That sometimes doesn't go well for the witness in our culture.
But tell somebody in your life, Tell somebody that you trust, family,
friends, maybe a religious person, a counselor pastor. Don't live with
it alone and seek out other people. Create a community of people who are
willing to hold the ground for reality that are experientially very real. Yeah,
Keith Thompson, a pleasure and much success on this new book, and we'll
do our part to promote it. And by the way, those of you
listening. The publisher is Barn Company, an excellent publisher who has a history
of publishing these kinds of books. So it's well edited, it's got great
information in it, and go out and get a copy. All right,
Hey, thanks again, I appreciate you being on the show. Thanks for
davitation anytime. Keith is supplying a small gallery of images from his book as
well as a series of images of what can only be described as automatons or
robots that were used in abducting people, in greeting people, and in some
cases leading people into their craft. And this is really strange. One of
the most well known is the story of and we mentioned it in the interview,
the Kelvin Parker abduction, which was in Mississippi, and I have some
photographs of the beings that he described to the Sheriff's department, which they subsequently
drew for wider distribution as well as I would think that the local officials wanted
to know what the hell he was interacting with. But they appear to be
robots of some kind and very sophisticated robots that were flying the ship that were
performing experiments on port Kelvin and his associate, and we see this a lot
we get these stories a lot. There's other artificial beings that are placed into
action to do these interactions with humans, probably because of the safety, you
know, if they if a human reacts poorly and it's violent, the robot
can take a beating and be damaged or destroyed without too much problem. I
would think, I don't know, but I have a whole series of these
images on the Facebook page or things is International and the group page, and
just look at some of the oddities they're they're they're very very strange looking,
and God knows where they come from. This is what the big question is,
Where are these beings coming from, Who's behind them, who's creating them?
What kind of technology are we talking about? Is a few hundred is
it a few hundred years in advance of us? Or is it thousands and
thousands of years in advance? We just don't know. But wouldn't it be
nice to know? Wouldn't it be nice to be more receptive to this.
I don't think the abduction phenomenon has waivered that much. I think that it's
still happening. Why is it happening? We don't know all kinds of theories,
of course, and if our government does know. I think it's a
shame that they can't come forward and just say, hey, this is happening
and we don't. You know, it might be that they have no control
over it and they're just dumbfounded and they're just being quiet because it's embarrassing.
You know. The other thing is, and I can see this, if
they were to say, hey, there's mass abductions going on, that would
frighten the hell out of everybody. But the truth of the matter is,
and you can see this, and people we've had on the show, like
Whitley Streever who has been abducted, and a number of other people that we've
had on the program who have been abducted and taken on a board craft to
be experimented on. What the hell can we do about it? You know,
what the hell can we do? We should be able to do something.
So it's going to be very sad if we find out that our government
knows about this and they haven't intervened and whatsoever. So lots of questions,
lots and lots of questions. So hey, if you're enjoying Earth Ancients,
Destiny and Earth Ancient Special Edition, please consider becoming a subscriber for as little
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Forward Slash Earth Ancients. All right, that's it for today's program. I
want to thank my guest today, Keith Thompson, releasing his new book,
The UFO Paradox. As always, the team of Gail tour, Mark Foster
and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys, rock and I really
appreciate you, all right, take care of you well, and we'll talk
to you next time. A