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Hey, a good Saturday to you. Come on answers. See, let's

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get the show going here. I've
been fascinated by the whole phenomenon of UFO

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ET interaction. I've had what I
have hoped is a group of the foremost

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authorities on all things interactive with ets. We've had doctor av Loeb, We've

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had Marion Rednick, a former NASA
astronomer. We have had people who are

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authors who have witnessed events of close
and personal what they're usually called their call

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the experiencers, and everything in between. And the answers are hard to come

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by in terms of disclosure. When
are we going to hear what the truth

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is? When are we going to
hear when the government's gonna basically say,

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we're being observed from Afar by a
group of off world types, extraterrestrials,

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aliens, ets, whatever, and
they're here, and by the way,

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they are part of a collective.
We don't know how it would come across.

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But as you know, I have
been somewhat frustrated for a long time

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in the fact that we're not getting
the whole truth. We get it piecemeal,

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a little bit here, a little
bit. They're an experiencer will write

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a book, a former military intelligence
officer will reveal some data. Somebody will

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see something from an aerospace company and
come out and talk about it with the

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threat of harm. Some people will
break their nondisclosure agreements and present some data

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in the hopes of educating people.
And it's just not coming across. You

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know, we and you know,
I have to praise, and I have

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praised many times doctor av Lobe for
being as transparent as possible about the fact

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that, in his opinion, we
are being observed. In his case,

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as an astronomer, he's looking at
alien probes, the OMAUO MAUA probe of

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a few years ago, and then
this probe that he scanned the Pacific Ocean

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off of the New Guinea Islands last
year and apparently got fragments. And we're

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going to have doctor Lobe on the
program later this year to discuss the what

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he actually found in the Pacific Ocean
and get an update. And what I've

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heard recently is that he's going to
go back again and do some more dredging.

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But the bottom line is that's that's
fragmentary evidence of a disclosure. You

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know, how do we feel oh, doctor Loewe, he's you know,

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he could say something like, yes, I've found alien metals. That's kind

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of a nice story. It kind
of reveals that we're being observed and there's

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alien craft orbiting our planet. But
what about these craft that are being cited

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in the hundreds, if not thousands, every month around the world, in

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these highly advanced unidentified aerial phenomenon or
unidentified yeah UAPs or UFOs, you undidentified

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flying objects. What's going on with
that? Of even greater interest is what

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is going on with those humans Earth, humans who are being contacted, who

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are being abducted and taken on board
the craft of alien beings in some cases,

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and it hasn't been reported as readily
as it used to be in the

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nineteen nineties and two thousands. Alien
abductions where people are abducted, their body

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fluid is tested, in some cases, women's eggs, the ovum, in

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some cases men's sperm is removed.
What is going on with that? And

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we haven't talked a great deal about
the abduction and testing side of things because

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it's not reported as clearly as it
used to be a couple of decades ago.

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Does that I mean that it has
stopped. Doesn't mean that we just

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don't have people reporting. It is
the general public not interested in that material

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anymore, and that kind of reporting, I don't know. It's hard to

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say. And you know, I'm
here in northern California and there are there

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is a move on just north of
me and Morin. We do have people

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that are making sightings. But what's
the status of disclosure? And I've said

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this many times, why doesn't our
government sit us down and go we are

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being observed by aliens from this planetary
system. It's hard to say if there

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is a collaborative effort between the UFO, between the UFO occupants, the aliens,

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and the United States government, what
a cover up that would be that

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would be. That would be a
huge deal, and I think there would

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be a tremendous number of people that
would be angry. I for one,

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am angry and disappointed in NASA JPL. One of my pet interests is Mars,

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where we have verified, verified ruins
of an alien ancient alien civilization.

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We have verified ruins on the orbiting
moon Phobus in the form of megalists and

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monuments and other unusual megalithic stone works
that are massive in size and shape.

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We don't hear anything about that.
And the whole astronaut Apollo missions are a

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complete array of alien observation reported to
us by the astronauts. Why we're not

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that's not coming forward and being discussed. It's another problem. So, and

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I've said this many times, you
know, when it comes out through either

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the Chinese or the from craft and
rovers from India that Mars does have evidence

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of ruins, I hope everyone in
the administrative staff of NASA is fired or

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reprimanded severely and exposed. I think
losing their jobs would probably be enough.

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I don't think anybody has to go
to jail. But this is all very

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very important data for us, and
I say this all the time. When

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we learn we are not the only
ones on the planet, excuse me,

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when we learn when we learn we're
not the only ones in the cosmos and

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that we are part of a collective
or there are other alien beings that are

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close by and our government's known about
it, we evolve immediately. We are

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not the only ones here, so
everything changes, and that might be the

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problem that our religion, the people
who are the overseers of the various churches

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know that when we know that we
are a connected entity, we are part

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of a collective, religion may not
be necessary anymore. And so they're scared.

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And so when NASA, when the
Department of Defense goes to the religious

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leaders and asks them, what would
you say if we disclose this information?

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What would you say if an alien
race made themselves known? And for the

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most part, the church heads are
like, well, we wouldn't like that.

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People wouldn't react. Well, I
can't believe that. I think people

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would be well mean this because religion
is faltering, and religious religion doesn't really

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take us very far. So today
we are discussing, in kind of a

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historic view, where we have been
as a collective in receiving off world types,

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the kinds of crafts, the kinds
of interactions we've had, and more

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importantly, the feat the characters,
the people from the various heads of departments

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and organizations here in the United States, the Department of Defense, the Pentagon,

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independent scientific groups who are tasked with
observing and tracking alien craft. And

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so when we begin looking at the
people who are involved historically, we get

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a picture of how intense this entire
field of inquiry is. Not just look

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at the UFO. Look at the
UAP. They're touching down. They're interacting

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with people. These alien people are
uh, these alien beings are in some

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cases forcefully abducting people using stun rays
so people don't resist too much, and

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then carrying them or beaming them into
craft for consultations, for examinations for in

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some cases certain types of surgical procedures, which is doesn't sound very good.

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So hey, and why are they
doing that? We don't know, So

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today we're going to find out with
my guest today and the program is the

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UFO Paradox, the Celestial and Symbolic
World of Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon and my guess

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is long time research investigator Keith Thompson. Hey, we're in the summer months

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If you have any questions whatsoever, send

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me an email. Send it to
Earth Ancients the number four the letter you

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at gmail dot com, and I'll
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This week is a unique week for
us here at Earth Agents, simply

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because we're continuing the interest in the
ua Ufo phenomenon alien interaction on Earth with

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a new author, a new presidenter
here on Earth Ancient's. His name is

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Keith Thompson. He's written a new
book called The Ufo Paradox and what makes

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this book unique is it's a historical
look at the phenomenon of alien interactions with

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Earth. I call them observations.
And Keith Thompson, our guest today,

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is an author, independent journalist.
He is also a former TV talk show

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host and the author of a number
of a couple of books, The Angels

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and Aliens and Leaving the Left,
and he's written a number of articles.

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This is a good book for those
of you who need what they call a

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primer for the phenomenon, simply because
he presents one of the most important early

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identifications of what you would call UFOs. Carries us through the key players,

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and we're going to talk about some
very interesting people who have made inroads into

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this phenomenon known as abductions, where
aliens interact with human Earth humans, and

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takes us into almost present day I
should say, yes, present day phenomenon

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and governmental reaction. So Keith,
welcome to Earth Ancients. Great to see

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you, Wep, it's great to
be here. Thank you for that introduction

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that gives us a lot of places
to start in. Tell us why you

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wrote this book and what your hope
is for the reader. Good I began

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paying attention to the UFO phenomena,
I say, over fifty years ago,

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and people do the math on that, And I said, were you're like

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five years old, Well that's a
nice that's a generous observation. I was

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actually twelve years old. I was
in the sixth grade. It was my

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turn to give a current events class. We took turns bringing a story in

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from the news when these things called
newspapers were delivered on our driveway, these

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big chunks of paper, and you'd
cut out clippings and so forth. So

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I cut out the clippings about a
particular UFO siding in Michigan, near ann

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Arbor, and brought it to my
class and told the story about it.

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And it was the one in which
it was famously thought that the Air Force

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investigator who came in to talk about
it and take a look at it and

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speak to the press about it,
he let slip a phrase which he deeply

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regretted it was misunderstood at the time. He said, I can't explain everything

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we've seen here in Michigan, but
there I can say, with perhaps some

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feasibility probability, that maybe the one
siding near the edge of town, near

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the swamp. Then he qualified it. He said, could have been might

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have been what's known as swamp gas. Swamp gas being a process with a

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natural degradation of the leaves and twigs
and elements in a river bed and so

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forth a swamp. The conditions of
a swamp caused luminescence strange lights to rise,

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so people see the lights down at
the swamp. Swamp gas leads to

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that. So he did not say
the entire sighting was reduced to that,

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but the reporters jumped up from their
chairs, ran out of the auditorium,

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went to the line of payphones in
the hall, which were set up for

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this purpose, and called into their
newsbuers and says Air Force says it's all

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swamp gas. Complete and misunderstanding.
So I told about this to my class,

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and one of my class members asked
when it came time for questions,

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but do you think they're from outer
space? And I said, well,

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that's what some people think. That
is one of the theories, but I

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don't know for sure. But something
was seen, and the question is what

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something is seen? And someone knows, well, what what do you think

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was seen? Then you know,
everyone was real curious because I was the

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correspondent on the on the spot,
and I said, I don't know what

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they saw, and I said that
not as a dodge or you know,

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pump the football down the field.
I really didn't know, but I did

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say the sightings are not consistent with
the explicit explanation of swamp gas. I

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probably didn't use the language as consistent
with that's a little maybe more mature,

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but I said it didn't sound like
swamp gas. And the people in Michigan

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said that isn't what we saw.
So I was caught and and and and

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excited by that very counterpoint, the
very controversy. My teacher came up to

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stand by me at that point and
she said, I think that when missus

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Lowry was her name, sixth grade
teachers. She said, I think what

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Keith is saying here. It's important
to keep an open mind and ask relevant

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questions. Then she turned to me
and often the way a teacher will call

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you by your full name, mister
Thompson, that was quite a good report.

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You have the makings of a scientist
or a journalist, or maybe even

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a detective. And then she said, follow the evidence wherever it leads.

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Wow, she said, Gusto in
enthusiasm. But two things got accomplished there.

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She really said the right things about
how one should approach life, whether

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as a scientist getting to the nature
of reality in the laboratory, a detective

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who's got a who done it?
They're trying to figure out who killed the

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man who lives in the mansion at
the top of the hill. Did the

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butler do it? Did the chauffeur? I mean, you don't. You

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don't eliminate clues. You look for
clues, you look for coincidences, you

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look for what doesn't fit. And
the same with journalism, genuine journalism,

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with any journalism, which is what
drew me to be an investigative writer,

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wants to get at the heart of
things. So I ended up after that

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class was over feeling. I described
that event in the book in my classroom

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event that was a kind of benediction. There was almost a blessing that had

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been given to me, conferred upon
me as a young person. Yeah,

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took the world seriously, took life
seriously. And here this adult figure treated

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me as an aspiring adult, someone
who had the makings of a grown up.

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And it wasn't new to me.
I came from a family where my

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family encouraged me to and my brothers
to explore things that interested us. But

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that particular interaction with my teacher is
what got me interested in the phenomenon.

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I continued to pay attention to.
It led to my first book, Angels

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and Aliens. So with this book, my aim was really in the wake

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of the twenty seventeen New York Times
article that revealed the contrary to what we've

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been told, and we had been
told, the government has no interest in

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these alleged events because they don't exist. There's no reason to think that anything

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is going on. They're all hoaxes, hallucinations and misidentifications. That's almost the

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mantra that we've heard. Anyway,
we find out no. In twenty seventeen

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New York Times, all the news
that fit to print supposedly said there's a

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Pentagon office that has been exploring and
investigating, and here's the scoop on that.

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So in the wake of that,
I said, I want to come

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back to this topic. I want
to write the kind of book that I

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would want to read for the intelligent
reader who comes into the bookstore and says,

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Okay, I don't believe in UFOs
quote unquote. But I'm a reality

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or in a reader. I'm an
empis empiricist. I like to study and

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learn. And here's a book about
the UFOs called the UFO Paradox. This

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guy sounds like he's on the level, sounds like he's tracked the facts and

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tried to get at the facts.
That's how That's the kind of book I

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wanted to write for that it's the
kind of book I would want to read.

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Is not one that requires suspending or
believing, believing or suspending common sense,

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or believing in things for which there's
not evidence. I've taken the age.

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There's a lot of things I write
about in the book that are beyond

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the current scientific maps. But that's
because the maps aren't up to date.

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Paranormal, extraterrestrial, interdimensional, whatever
terms we want to use, they're phenomena

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that aren't on the maps of science. And I'll close this by simply saying

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that if at a certain point,
in covering the kind of things you cover

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on this show all the time,
areas of reality territories which have consistent bodies

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of witness testimony, if those territories
are not on the maps of science and

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society and our sense of self.
Then at some point it's wise to check

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the maps. Are the maps?
Has anybody checked them? Absolutely? Oh,

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they haven't been updated since Descartes or
Newton. So that's kind of what

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I'm saying. Just as physics has
moved on beyond quantum physics into excuse me,

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from classical physics Newtonian physics, to
quantum physics, I'm interested in aspects

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of reality that relate to mind and
its interface with matter, consciousness and the

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material world. These phenomena are front
and center. You know, you've been

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covering this for, as you say, for six decades. Why is the

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DoD, Department of Defense, the
military, the United States military so reticent

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to give us more information? We
know that in nineteen sixty the requisition the

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Brookings Institute document the basically find out
how the American public would react to first

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disclosure, and it was a terrible
review. Most of it was that we

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would go insane, we would commit
suicide, religions would fall. And then

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they followed it up a few years
ago with another theological theological view of the

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UFO phenomenon, where they're asking priests
and rabbis the same question, and we

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don't really know what the reaction was. But the hints were that that they

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were saying some of the same thing, that the religion would be upset and

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people would question their reality and so
forth and so on. Why aren't they

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asking people like Google and people who
are in the social media phenomenon, which

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is really I think a cross section
of our mental state, what we think

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how open we are personally. I
think we're very open to a disclosure.

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But what do you say about our
government's reaction and the dissemination of information,

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because it doesn't seem like they're very
open at all. Well, you touched

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on the possible ramifications of disclosure of
this would lead to mass insanity and religions

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would fall apart. While we're living
in a time when you read the daily

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newspaper, even without UFO disclosure,
we seem to be living in extremely crazy

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times, you might say. And
the religious affiliations are changing rapidly. People

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are dropping away from the mainstream Christian
religions and seeking something different. There's a

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category called spiritual but not religious.
That's the way people identify increasingly, so

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that idea also, I would just
add, we've seen so many movies,

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you know, close encounters of the
third kind the day we are acclimated to

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the idea, that the idea is
out there, So why is there still

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no straight talk? Well, there's
two possibility. One is the government it's

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got a pretty good idea of what
this is about. And it could be

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devastating, right, it could be
very bad news for us. In some

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way, I kind of don't quite
follow the logic of that, because if

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it's bad news, is that bad
news causing anything to happen right now?

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Is it the possibility of invasion?
Well, they're not invading now. Is

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it a threat? Well, what
is the threat? Is it not threatening

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us now? At the same time, there is evidence that whatever these events

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are, these these the apparent craft
that show up on radar and other sensors,

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show up to eyewitness testimony, are
having impact on our nuclear launch systems.

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They I mean there, and the
government knows that, the military knows

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that they these lights and apparent craft
come in and that the launch codes are

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changed. So they're dismasing. Yeah, they are disabled now maybe they are

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Maybe they they this larger reality,
this larger intelligence understood what happened in Hiroshima

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and Nagasaki, and there was an
understanding in the Confederation of the Universe never

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again. The Earth people have too
much technology but not enough wisdom, so

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we've got it if anything disrupted.
So that's one possibility. I put out

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a speculative. I love to shoot
the shoot the stories late at night a

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good old bull session. Could also
be that the government knows these things are

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going on but doesn't really understand them
either. It could be that they just

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don't fully understand what's going on,
and therefore we can't expect a four star

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general with a nice gray uniform to
stand up with the Pentagon and given over

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view of this and say, in
other words, something with impunity is involved

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in our airspace, changing our nuclear
systems and interacting with us at its whim.

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We don't know what it is,
but we're looking closely at it.

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Will keep you posted, Thank you, No questions please, no questions please.

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We must just disassemble the news conferences
in this so anyway that leads,

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as you know, to a kind
of a disconnect in public confidence. It's

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similar to the basic structure of the
phenomenon itself in that these sidings are reported

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by people with credibility. There's no
sign that people who report UFOs have mental

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problems. Even the abductees have been
studied as a group. While people who

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report being abducted have difficulties adjusting,
they have traumatic signs of trauma in their

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lives, it would be consistent with
such an event, but they do not

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show a predisposition to mental illness or
something. So we have people reporting for

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generations now these extraordinary events. Then
we have the agents of official culture,

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in science, in media, and
academia not saying we're going to investigate these

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and get on it because this is
evidence of something that's happening. No,

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they have characteristically responded, there's nothing
going on here. People go back home

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to your little lives. Everything is
fine. These are misidentifications, there are

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illusions, they're hoaxes and so forth. Well, what that does. It

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doesn't make when reality shows stuff that
we're not willing to see, that doesn't

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make reality go away. Reality says, okay, I'm going to go to

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where you can't see me. I'm
going to go underground. You drive me

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underground, you refuse to look at
me at eye level. Your authorities you

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call them, aren't willing to pay
attention and report that there's okay, we'll

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go underground and so therefore it influences
us at an even deeper level. It

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influences at a deep level of consciousness, the kind of level that Carl Jung

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talk with the collective unconscious. And
that's a whole topic there we could get

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into. But anyway, in any
event, I don't expect a major disclosure,

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except now here's the one I will
completely well. I don't track the

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disclosure world as closely as some of
those who do in the political governmental circles,

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congressional hearings and so forth. I
have some experience in the congressional world

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as a staffer, but that's been
a while, and I never worked in

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the defense sector. I never had
clearance. I'd love to say I had

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clearance, but I can't claim it. But I've been looking at what's been

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going on with this Air Force officer
named David Grush who last year came forward,

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and I'll briefly summarize for your listeners
and viewers who don't know, but

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that most of them probably do.
He has delved deeply and has come to

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the conclusion that recovered craft and what
he calls biologics, suggesting biological material pilots

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deceased pilots have been recovered and have
been offloaded to the aerospace industries, maybebe

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McDonald Douglas. Given the relationship of
these industries to the government, very very

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tight relationships. They're almost like quasi
governmental bodies at this point, Lockheed,

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Martin and so forth. So the
idea is he's delivered names, dates,

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locations, places, and so forth
to the Inspector General of the intelligence community,

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supported apparently by other whistleblowers. So
we may be on the verge of

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a kind of breakthrough. We see
leaders in both parties Senator Schumer on the

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Democrat side, and Mike Johnson,
the House of Representatives Republican leader and the

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majority leader of the Speaker of the
House. I should say both saying we

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want the legislation in the National Defense
Authorization Act for twenty twenty five to include

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provisions for whistleblowers to come forward and
not have their lives ruined. Daniel Ellsberg's

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of the world won't have to risk
going to jail, Edward Snowden's and Julian

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Massages who were disclosing stuff about other
and other errors. But it's the same

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issue. If I can simply say
that government classification is way overboard, it's

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it's mostly see why cover your backside? That's why everything gets classified. Also,

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it's a power trip if you were
If you get to classify things,

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you get to know the secrets with
your other buddies, you know. I

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mean, it's a it's a real
buddy system, and it's time to stop

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so rampantly and promiscuously classifying everything.
So that's a broad answer. I haven't

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00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:36.279
I haven't given a it's good and
you brought some very good points. Uh,

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we don't have time to get into
the specifics. But I think what

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you're saying is that we should be
hopeful that we'll have more uh revelations,

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00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:52.359
disclosures as to what's happening. If
we don't, if if the if the

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government misses the opportunity to support the
whistleblowers coming forward, and if they essentially

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quash it, smash it further,
it will be the repetition of this existing

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pattern of it isn't dealt with at
the surface level intelligently and honestly, it

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gets pushed down into the collective unconscious
and gets weirder. So then we can

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expect increasingly weird direct contact. Then
maybe maybe the phenomenon frankly by the way,

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maybe the contact that this phenomenon is
actually if you might say, choosing

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00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:30.680
individual contacts knowing that the agents of
official culture are a wall, they're absent,

347
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.400
they're not doing their duties. Well, that's what I want to I

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00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.720
want one of them's dealing with individuals. It's making contact with individuals. Yeah,

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but that's been going on for a
while, and you know, the

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scenario that used to come out is
like, why don't they land in DC

351
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:47.960
and say, hey, we're here, we want to speak to your to

352
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:52.400
your leaders. So that just doesn't
happen. And I think if it's a

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race of beings that's one thousand,
ten thousand centuries ahead of us, they're

354
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their mental state is different, and
maybe they don't want to go that way

355
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because of the group trauma that may
be imposed in that scenario. So it's

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hard to think. And I'm curious
as a final thought on this, what

357
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:29.160
you would project or what you might
prophesize as a possible scenario where some alien

358
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:35.359
group says, hey, welcome to
the Cosmos group of planets, or we're

359
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:42.759
here to observe you. And because
I think it's a great benefit to us

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on an evolutionary scale, and I
say this all the time. If we

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are informed that we're not the only
beings in our cosmos, we evolve,

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We look at our life a lot
more differently. And this cover up.

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This is why I'm kind of upset
about our government, especially the United States

364
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:07.640
government. Is why cover up something
that is happening to us and has been

365
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:13.359
happening to us for many hundreds of
years likely if not longer. Why not

366
00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:17.640
release this information and allow us to
work with it. You know what I

367
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:21.200
mean? Well, Okay, I'll
tell you one of the reason. I'll

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give applausible reason. And that sounds
like it's almost something from a Hollywood screenplay.

369
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Much of this often does sound that
way. There is a group in

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00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:34.119
the Pentagon. Okay, let me
pause and say there is alleged to be

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a group, an informal group of
officers in the various military divisions services in

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the Pentagon who are high high level. When I say high level, I

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don't mean a conspiracy per se.
I don't mean to go that way.

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But there's a collective consensus among many
of the highest level decorated officers in the

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Pentagon and the military forces in general, who just happened to be deeply conservative

376
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religious conservatives, another deeply religious fundamental
conservatives, who in addition are are lieutenants

377
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and majors and admirals and generals.
And there is a feeling allegedly by people

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I have talked to. It's I
don't have any sources because people are always

379
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having to be careful about what they
say. But the apparently this does.

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It's referred to as the Columns group
c O L L I N S.

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00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:28.400
Your listeners and viewers can google college
group and find out what that refers to.

382
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:32.239
It refers to the idea that there's
not a cabal, but a consensus

383
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.880
that this is dangerous. These are
demons, by the way. That's what

384
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:39.800
they believe. The conservative Christians believe
that the UFO is real. UFO is

385
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:45.000
are real, and it's demonic.
Okay, so but frame of it is

386
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:49.840
not to be. We are not
to disclose, we are not to interact

387
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:52.719
with this. In some sense,
we must be willing to do spiritual warfare.

388
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:58.480
I don't know how deeply that's ingrained, how how deep and what and

389
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:04.760
trench at this alleged consent is,
but that's one. That's one one position

390
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:09.840
that's put forward. You combine that
with the average secular politician who doesn't necessarily

391
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:15.119
have that religious belief, but they
they think they don't want to get they

392
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:17.559
don't want to get out on the
on the front lines of this. Who

393
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:22.679
in Congress wants to be associated with
UFO disclosure? There are a few the

394
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:28.519
Congress Member of Congress from Tennessee and
a couple of Well, before he passed

395
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:32.320
away, Harry Reid was huge on
this whole. Senator Harry Reid was huge.

396
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:36.440
I never got the opportunity to talk
with him about this, but he

397
00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:39.840
really was, and he was another
followed the evidence wherever it leads. Yeah,

398
00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:44.920
he followed. He worked with Robert
Bigelow in Nevada's Yeah, oh yeah,

399
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:46.960
there are There are a few politicians
who've been with John Glenn. Senator

400
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:52.760
John Glenn was involved in some of
the disclosure effort. I didn't dock him

401
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:54.719
in all that history, but I
do come at this from a historical perspective.

402
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Part of what I want to do
in the book the UFO Paradox was

403
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:02.360
to restore some of these lost lineages. We must not forget the history of

404
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:07.480
this phenomenon, otherwise we don't,
for example, the current hope that there's

405
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:13.039
immediate disclosure coming out of this twenty
seventeen disclosure that the government Pentagon Group has

406
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:15.920
been tracking it. That has led
a lot of the millennials and Generation Z

407
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:21.480
people younger than me. But welcome
to the Welcome to the chase, guys,

408
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:23.519
Welcome to pursuing this nomenon. One
thing I would tell you is,

409
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:30.519
for nearly eight decades, ladies and
gentlemen, the idea has been very ripe

410
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.559
that the lid on the government cover
up is just about ready to blow sky

411
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:37.920
high. You could tell by the
tone of my voice that I'm a little

412
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:45.480
ironic toward that. It's ironic.
Yeah, that's my first UFO, not

413
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:50.519
my first UFO rodeo. But then
again, but I'm not cynical about it.

414
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:53.360
And if I'm not tracking this and
if there's if we are on the

415
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:58.320
verge of a significant breakthrough, then
all the better. I'm in favor of

416
00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:01.199
the transparency. I just I often
say that people ask us your book about

417
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:07.079
disclosure, and I say, everything
I say about this phenomenon is about disclosing

418
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:10.320
it. It's all about disclosure.
But I'm interested, especially in the disclosure

419
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:19.679
of aspects of the phenomena that challenge
our materialist, physicalist worldview that prevents psychic

420
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:27.880
paranormal phenomena, telepathy, clairvoyance,
precognition, psychokinesis fancy terms for what sounds

421
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:32.400
fanciful, but the evidence in laboratory
studies now as well as everyday experience,

422
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:37.639
we live in a conscious universe,
a psychic universe. Psychic phenomena are real.

423
00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:43.440
We all have events in our lives
that we call coincidence when we think

424
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:47.280
like materialists, oh, that's just
a coincidence, But there are meaningful coincidences

425
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:53.840
between mental states and physical phenomena that
we all can attest to when we remember

426
00:37:54.199 --> 00:38:00.119
those incidents in our lives and how
we hold those do we do we allow

427
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:04.440
them to change us, to open
up to the sense that we live in

428
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:07.519
a larger universe, or do we
use them? And we often do?

429
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:08.760
Do we use them? Just to
sort of put the lid back on,

430
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:15.039
That was an interesting day, That
was an interesting exchange. What I saw

431
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:20.639
was unexplainable, but it's probably not
much. I understand that response too.

432
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.119
I'm trying to give permission to people
to understand that these are like calls I

433
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:29.280
call the UFI. I describe the
UFO phenomenon as a call from the cosmos

434
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:35.599
metaphorically speaking, along with the near
death phenomenon and psychic paranormal phenomenon in Jon,

435
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.400
these are all calls from the universe
that says, after three hundred years

436
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:45.239
of pretending that we don't exist,
it's time to respond to the call Earth,

437
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.679
Earth realm, respond to the call
that you live in a universe that's

438
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:54.119
larger and more varied and more fantastic
and amazing than you realize. Let's talk

439
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:58.679
about a few of the characters featured
in your book, and we're not going

440
00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:00.719
to have time to get to all
of them, but I'd like you to

441
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:07.639
talk about Kenneth Arnold's sighting in nineteen
forty seven, which kind of set the

442
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:14.280
stage for future observation techniques. But
what was so unique about his sighting and

443
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:17.599
actually what did he see? Great
Grattion. I call it the creation story

444
00:39:17.679 --> 00:39:23.119
of modern UFO phenomenon, in the
same sense that Genesis is the creation story

445
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:27.840
in our Christian Biblical tradition. You
don't have to be a believer to know

446
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:31.480
that the first book of the Old
Testament is Genesis, and it describes in

447
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:36.079
the beginning, there was darkness on
the land, and then there was light,

448
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:38.079
and so then the word became flesh
and so forth. Not here to

449
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:43.920
quote the Bible directly, but likewise. Kenneth Arnold, private pilot, June

450
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:47.920
twenty fourth, nineteen forty seven,
was flying over near Mount Rainier, Washington,

451
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:52.519
and saw nine objects through his cockpit
windshield, flying in formation. He

452
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:58.480
was a skilled, experienced private pilot. He knew how to clock them twelve

453
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:02.239
hundred miles an hour, and he
described them. When he called them in,

454
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:07.079
he said, is there anything like
this out here today? They said

455
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.039
no, like what he said,
Well, I see these things, these

456
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:16.639
these parent these events, these happenings, these parent craft skipping with the way

457
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:22.079
a saucer would skip over water.
He referred to the motion. He didn't

458
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:24.440
say they were shape like saucers.
But then they got reported by the news

459
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:29.039
media. When he landed, the
reporters were already waiting for him, and

460
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:34.519
skipping like saucers became shape like saucers. That was the first sort of confusion

461
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:38.880
in the creation story. But I
came up with some evidence that something even

462
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:44.599
more remarkable about that sighting hadn't been
reported. After he died, his daughter

463
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:46.519
Kim Arnold, came forward and said, Okay, I'm here to tell the

464
00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:51.000
full story that my father felt was
too fantastic to tell at the time.

465
00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:55.840
He was always astonished, Kim Arnold
said his father. Her father was astonished

466
00:40:57.159 --> 00:41:02.079
and perplexed by the continuing assumption that
what he had seen that day was technology,

467
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:07.000
hardware, nuts and bowls, spacecraft. He said, he didn't see

468
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:10.679
anything like that. He told us
that these nine objects seemed to be pulsating,

469
00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:16.400
They had different degrees of density from
opaque to translucent. They changed their

470
00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:22.000
shape in some respects. They were
blue, white, light and shimmering,

471
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:27.000
and they had the kind of a
heartbeat that was similar to the human heart.

472
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:31.880
Remarkable kind of set of descriptions and
imagery. Then he further told his

473
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:37.840
daughter they it was like I got
a deep, deep impression. I can

474
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:42.599
only call it a deep intuition that
these were from another dimension that is actually

475
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:45.400
very close to us. Then it
has to do with where we go after

476
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:51.440
this life. Wow, and these
phenomena were from the afterlife, from where

477
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:54.480
we would call that's something to do
with mortalities. He was kin talking to

478
00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:59.960
his daughter and kind of giving his
impression, and this is what she was

479
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:04.800
telling the reporter. Yeah, well, he told her privately, this is

480
00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:07.519
sort of the inner secrets of the
family. And after he died. I

481
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:10.480
don't know if the assumption was or
even the request is, Kim, you

482
00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:15.440
carry the ball. After I died, I'm already known as the flying saucer

483
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:19.079
guy, and it hasn't helped me
at all to be associated with this.

484
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:21.480
I don't want to come forward and
say, well, in fact, what

485
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:25.039
I've kept to myself is the following. So when I'm gone and that's over,

486
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:29.000
maybe you can come forward somebody that
could have been how it happened.

487
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:32.039
But she said, my father wanted
me to make this clear. This is

488
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:37.440
what happened. Here's another detail.
She said, in our family home after

489
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:42.119
my father landed back in Boise,
Idaho that day, in the days thereafter,

490
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:46.039
there appeared in our house orbs of
light, orbs of light, different

491
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:51.519
colored light floating around, like out
the close encounters of the third kind.

492
00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:54.719
So if this is totally just a
physical event in the sense that this is

493
00:42:54.760 --> 00:43:00.280
here and that's there, and we
have local reality, and we have local

494
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:04.880
reality over in Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh and
San Francisco or different regions, you know,

495
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.239
different places in physical space, then
why would this phenomenon or how could

496
00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:16.280
this phenomenon have come home with him
if you will, from over Mountaineer back

497
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:22.400
to Idaho in their family home.
There was a psychic field effect going on.

498
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:25.280
This is the paranormal writ large,
makes it harder to deal with the

499
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:30.559
phenomenon than it would be. It's
amazing enough if it's just extraterrestrial craft.

500
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:35.440
And by the way, mixed in
with this might be might be extraterrestrial craft,

501
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:38.199
but they didn't appear that way they
appeared. It's interesting to think about

502
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:43.400
what if this sighting. If Kenneth
Arnold had told the full story in nineteen

503
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:46.480
forty seven about the living beating heartbeats
it seemed to be from another land,

504
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:52.239
he probably would have been asked to
take a psychiatric exam as a condition for

505
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:57.960
keeping his pilot's license. So this
is actually the creation story of the UFO

506
00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:02.320
phenomenon, far more rich phenomenon that
behaved far differently than he described at the

507
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:09.239
time, and followed him home in
the form of lights and other synchronistic experiences

508
00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:14.199
of a paranormal kind in the family
home. It's funny the way you describe

509
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:22.880
this, Keith, because it's like
this observation that Kenneth made was for him

510
00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:27.960
personally. It wasn't that they are
just this craft was moving on. He

511
00:44:28.119 --> 00:44:32.440
was affected in such a way that
it was for him. It was a

512
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:36.599
personal revelation, whether it was intended
to be or not. It's a little

513
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:42.599
bit like Ezekiel's wheel in the exactly
when I quote Biblical references, sometimes people

514
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:45.599
say, oh, Thompson is saying
that the Bible is filled with UFOs.

515
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:49.400
No, no, no, you're
taking the modern UFO reference and then sticking

516
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:52.159
in in the Bible. I'm saying
there are descriptions of events in the Bible

517
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:59.239
that have echoes of these events.
I'm not saying Moses burning Bush was really

518
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:05.320
a burn revolving spacecraft. But I'm
referring to the larger realm of religious miracles

519
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:10.599
that get explained in religious terms by
the Old Testament mentality. In other words,

520
00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:16.159
different mindsets, different cultural mindsets.
We may be observing the same phenomena

521
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:24.239
for centuries and across different cultures,
different worldviews, in different periods of history,

522
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:30.719
and that it gets translated according to
the belief systems of different Maybe it's

523
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:37.000
a common meta phenomena, a super
phenomena that gets translated into local regional perspectives,

524
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:42.119
such as the fairy faith of the
Celtic cultures very faith. Well,

525
00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:45.400
let's not bring fairies into this.
We all know that that's just you know,

526
00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:50.840
lore is just myth. Mine is
the true religion. We know how

527
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:54.800
this thinking works. There are abductions
of children in the fairy traditions. Does

528
00:45:54.840 --> 00:46:00.039
that make them Does this make it
all equally laughable? Or does it say

529
00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:05.840
that there is a larger phenomenon that
appears in previous times and we end up

530
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:10.239
calling those stories mere fairy tales,
but in our time the phenomenon is real.

531
00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:15.039
Jacques Vallet, the French astronomer,
was one of the first to say,

532
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:20.199
I think we do better by expanding
the framework for this. We allow

533
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:24.199
the UFO Saucer frame of reference to
be real, but we realized that that

534
00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:30.400
frame of reference is a limited frame
of reference in a larger mythology, in

535
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:37.039
the positive sense of mythology, a
larger framework of human interactions with unknown phenomena

536
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:44.639
that seemed to be beckoning us to
a larger identity. We're going to take

537
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:50.280
a short commercial break to allow our
sponsors to identify themselves, and we will

538
00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:54.800
return shortly with My guest today Keith
Thompson, discussing his brand new book,

539
00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:49.639
The UFO Paradox. Be right back. My guest today is author and research

540
00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:53.920
investigator Keith Thompson. He has written
a new book called The UFO Paradox,

541
00:47:54.480 --> 00:48:01.639
The Celestial and Symbolic World of Unidentified
Aerial Fine And we're looking at the history

542
00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:13.639
of UAP UFO research. Now.
It's interesting to note that Kenneth Arnold is

543
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:20.360
kind of the beginning. But as
we are developing nuclear fusion and we are

544
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:27.119
evolving these phenomenon, these UFO has
begun to come more in waves. The

545
00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:30.760
government, our government, the United
States government is overwhelmed with it and they

546
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:35.320
open up different departments. And I
want you to describe one of the key

547
00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:40.920
people, which is doctor Allan Heinik, who is an astronomer. And I

548
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:45.519
don't think he knew what he was
getting into when he started, but let's

549
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:50.000
talk about him because he's the key
figure. I want you to talk about

550
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:53.519
one aspect of him which I found
was very interesting, which is he was

551
00:48:53.599 --> 00:49:01.960
a hardcore scientist, one of the
emperical data, but became a believer as

552
00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:09.800
more people came forward and described their
interactions with off World Times talk about Alan

553
00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:15.159
Heidig Allen. Heydig was an astronomer
at the Ohio State University. I believe

554
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:21.519
observatory. He had a good,
good standing, good reputation. I don't

555
00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:25.440
know how exactly he came into the
into the story, but the Air Force

556
00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:30.599
liked him and he wanted to make
a contribution. Frankly, it has said

557
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:35.000
that at the time he thought the
these these events could probably be explained in

558
00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:40.199
London. Yes, yea. Even
if he didn't dismiss all of the Michigan

559
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:45.000
sidings. He he you know,
he he was a man of science.

560
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.760
He said, you know, if
there are claims that of phenomena that are

561
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:54.840
beyond our framework, we have to
examine them very carefully to eliminate other hypotheses.

562
00:49:55.119 --> 00:50:00.599
Let's use critical thinking with the Air
Force like that, because they said

563
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:02.639
this is our guy. Now when
I say they like that, it's clear

564
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:07.400
that the military had decided that these
were real, A significant number of them

565
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:13.639
were, but for various reasons that
they couldn't. The public would not be

566
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:16.960
ready to handle the news, especially
in the news that we can't we're not

567
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:21.159
in charge, we can't control it. We really can't explain it. So

568
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:28.079
the unexpected. The unspoken agreement between
them was unspoken that Heinek is going to

569
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:31.760
handle this for us case after case. Well, in case after case he

570
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:36.199
did handle it. In that he
said, well, that wasn't likely an

571
00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:39.119
extraordinary phenomenon at all, that that
one was probably prosaic. But as you

572
00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:45.159
say, over time, by precisely
being a man of science and a man

573
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.679
of integrity and truly an empiricist,
follow the evidence where it leads, he

574
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:52.360
was led increasingly to go in and
study these abduction cases. He went to

575
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:57.840
Pascagoula, Mississippi to talk with the
two witnesses. I went to past Googoula,

576
00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:00.880
in working on this book, to
talk with Calvyan Parker, one of

577
00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:06.800
the two witnesses from the nineteen seventy
three Past Gagoole incident where two fishermen were

578
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:09.760
hauled board to spacecraft one night.
So he came in and said about that

579
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:16.840
case, these men have had a
real experience, whether it's from with something

580
00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:21.519
that is from off the planet in
an extraterrestrial sense, or he said,

581
00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:25.280
perhaps some aspect of our physics would
allow us to understand these are coming from

582
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:32.119
a parallel dimension that somehow translates itself
into the lives of actual people and then

583
00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:37.400
goes back out again something not from
this dimension. So he was willing to

584
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:42.000
entertain big hypotheses. Finally, the
Air Force didn't like that, and I

585
00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:45.360
asked him a question once. I
said, doctor Heinig, what was it

586
00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:49.840
like when the abductions entered the story? And he laughed. He said,

587
00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:53.199
oh, I can still remember my
response, Keith. He said, oh,

588
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:59.119
great, that's all we need.
We're having a hard enough time explaining

589
00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:06.320
the possibility that there are these objects
and sometimes they're associated with apparent passengers,

590
00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:09.840
but now the apparent passengers seemed to
be interacting with humans and taking them aboard.

591
00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:14.960
He said, this was a massive
headache from one sense. But he

592
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:19.960
said, if you're asking me whether
I thought it was ever justified to simply

593
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:24.159
ridicule and dismiss that because I didn't
fit my belief system, I would never

594
00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:28.960
have been able to justify doing that
As a scientist. And Jacques Valet,

595
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.920
who was my colleague at the time, we both understood that while we couldn't

596
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:37.679
necessarily take these at face value,
we couldn't stiffly dismiss them either, And

597
00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:45.559
I felt incredibly reinforced in my own
approach to this as a journalist, to

598
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:50.119
follow the evidence wherever it leads,
And so he said, we don't know

599
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:53.039
whether these are from outer space,
other galaxies, We don't know whether they're

600
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:59.519
from other dimensions. But the reports
of people being taken aboard these apparent vehicles

601
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:05.360
are too common to widespread to simply
ignore. And that's the spirit of all

602
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:08.639
this. I don't have final answers, but I'm holding the questions in place

603
00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:15.239
by the evidence that continues to emerge. Yeah, let's talk about the face

604
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:22.199
to face interactions, because we're talking
nineteen This really begins to become a major

605
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:27.039
phenomenon in the early nineteen sixties and
then in the seventies and eighties, but

606
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:31.440
the abduction phenomenon, And we're going
to present some people that you feature in

607
00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:39.760
your book right now. You mentioned
Calvin Parker, who is in Mississippi.

608
00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:47.119
Let's talk about his case specifically,
because here we are, and these individuals

609
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:55.000
have no clue what a UFO is, have no clue that other et civilizations

610
00:53:55.000 --> 00:54:06.880
are visiting Earth and they are being
taken aboard their alien, highly advanced off

611
00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:13.599
world vehicles. Let's talk about Calvin
Parker and his unfortunate event, because this

612
00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:21.599
poor guy was severely traumatized, but
he retained enough of his experience to describe

613
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:23.960
it. And this is so long
ago most people forget about it. Let's

614
00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:27.440
talk about And that's one of the
reasons I wanted to bring in the book.

615
00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:29.760
I it was fifty years old,
and I said, I'm going to

616
00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:32.960
go to Pascagoula at the deep South. If that doesn't get much deeper south

617
00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:37.119
than Pascagoula. If you're deeper south
than Pasca Googola, you are in the

618
00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:40.400
Gulf of Mexico. So did you
actually was Calvin still alive when you interviewed

619
00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:45.440
him? He was, He's now
passed away. This is twenty twenty four.

620
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:47.440
He passed away last year at twenty
twenty three. I went in twenty

621
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:51.760
twenty two. He was already suffering
from cancer, but he was able to

622
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:53.880
get around and he was still willing
to talk with me, and we talked

623
00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:57.639
on the phone. He said,
mister Thompson, you're welcome to come down.

624
00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:00.239
I appreciate your openness. I don't
ask you to believe me. You

625
00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:04.159
know, the more I use his
voice, the more I quote what he

626
00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:08.000
told me, I'll slip into his
dialect with grace, with the greatest of

627
00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:13.960
he's that's deep South where he leaves
south, and it's I do that with

628
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:19.559
great respect because I didn't I didn't
suspend my you know, my objectivity.

629
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:22.639
But at the human level I was
able to he'sa ad, come on down,

630
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:25.400
have some white, white rice and
red beans, and we'll talk about

631
00:55:25.400 --> 00:55:29.239
this. I'll take you to where
it happened, and we'll meet some other

632
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:31.440
people too. So I went down
anyway, Here's what here's what I not

633
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:35.760
only learned by going down there to
spend time with him, but also from

634
00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:38.519
the case. He and his friend
Charlie Hickson. One night were fishing on

635
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:43.119
the back year what years is again, nineteen seventy three, more than fifty

636
00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:46.960
three, fifty one years ago and
Charlie Calvin was younger. He said,

637
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:51.440
Charlie, you're taking us to a
place to fish where the police are going

638
00:55:51.519 --> 00:55:53.400
to pick us up. This is
no trespassing. And Charlie said, yeah,

639
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:57.239
it's no trestassing. But they don't
ever let they don't ever cause this

640
00:55:57.320 --> 00:56:00.880
problem. We'll we'll be all right, casting their lines and out in the

641
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:07.239
river, and he's Calvin sees blue
lights flashing on the water. He said,

642
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:09.960
well, Charlie, I told you
now, we're not only going to

643
00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:14.119
get arrested, you're going to have
to bail me out because I told you

644
00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:16.280
the police is here. Look at
them lights. Well, they would have

645
00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:21.280
been happy to have it be the
police, because it wasn't the police.

646
00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:24.000
They turned around and it was a
craft, strange craft, a saucer or

647
00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:32.440
shape oblong and so forth that opened
the door seamlessly. Out came two creatures

648
00:56:32.440 --> 00:56:37.320
that were not actually typical of Central
casting, the humanoid alien types. They

649
00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:42.239
were a different body type, pulled
these boys in, lifting them off the

650
00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:45.199
ground. Okay, this is what
they reported. They invested. They put

651
00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:51.800
them both through seemingly medical examinations,
including something like a what began what that

652
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:55.920
was not even possible for them to
know about. Apparently like a ct scam

653
00:56:57.559 --> 00:57:02.639
went up and down their body and
only technically that scan existed, but there

654
00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:08.760
wasn't anything like that in Pascagoulba.
So again, magical magical realism going details

655
00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:14.519
that are surreal. They long story. Short After disagreeing, Charlie said,

656
00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:17.400
we've got to report after they were
put back out on the on the ground

657
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:24.400
and the paralysis that held them in
place, was lifted, the ship disappeared.

658
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:28.159
Didn't just fly away, but it
seemed to disappear the way a TV

659
00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:32.159
set would be turned off. So
again, it has paranormal magical qualities in

660
00:57:32.199 --> 00:57:37.760
addition to the fact that it appeared
to be a physical event with technological features.

661
00:57:38.920 --> 00:57:43.320
Calvin Charlie said, well, what
are we going to do now?

662
00:57:44.320 --> 00:57:46.760
And Calvin Young Calvin said, well, we ain't going to do nothing but

663
00:57:46.840 --> 00:57:51.440
go to work tomorrow. IWS got
this new job, and I don't intend

664
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:54.519
to get this made public. He
was very aware of the implications of this.

665
00:57:54.639 --> 00:57:58.960
He did not want it to have
happened. He didn't want to talk

666
00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:05.199
about Charlie thought that the Mississippi might
be in under a full scale invasion by

667
00:58:05.239 --> 00:58:07.960
something, so he called the air
force. They said, we don't deal

668
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:12.800
with this anymore. The call the
police. So they called the police.

669
00:58:13.199 --> 00:58:16.079
The police officers, you were abducted
by aliens? Were you come on in

670
00:58:16.159 --> 00:58:20.920
boys, you know? Rolling their
eyes. They put them in separate rooms,

671
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:24.000
doing good police work, got them
to repeat their stories over and over

672
00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:30.480
and over separate till at one point
the sheriff believe his name was Sheriff Diamond,

673
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:32.840
said okay, here's what we're going
to do. The night's about over.

674
00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:37.719
The guys are exhausted, they're traumatized. He put them in the same

675
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:43.280
room without letting them know. He
put a voice activated tape recorder in the

676
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:45.800
desk drawer and said, boys,
hang out here, get your coffee.

677
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:49.559
If you want, I've got some
paperwork. We'll let you go. His

678
00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:52.920
purpose was to get these two guys
talking, and he assumed that if they

679
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:57.519
were if they were hoaxers, they
would be saying things like, well,

680
00:58:57.559 --> 00:59:00.840
we seem to be pulling the wool
over their eyes now again. We got

681
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:05.360
to act real scared because this is
this is how we're going to get to

682
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:08.559
Hollywood. This is what the debunkers
always say, right, you guys just

683
00:59:08.599 --> 00:59:14.320
want publicity Instead, the tape recording
revealed something far more ominous. They were

684
00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:16.639
both terrified. They talked like too
many who had just been through a natural

685
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:22.480
disaster, like they've been through the
bombing of Dresden and survived. These were

686
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:28.400
truly shell shocked. Calvin was in
tears. Charlie said he needed a drink.

687
00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:30.840
Calvin said he got to get sleeping
pills. He'd never had them before.

688
00:59:31.239 --> 00:59:36.159
Charlie said, I'd never I always
thought maybe there was something up there

689
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:38.519
then then then aliens or whatever,
but I never thought it would have anything

690
00:59:38.559 --> 00:59:43.639
to do with me. The sheriff, when you heard this tape said,

691
00:59:43.639 --> 00:59:45.920
if these boys are acting, they
ought to be in Hollywood. I'll help

692
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:50.840
get them a ticket there. They
deserve an Academy award. Well, anyway,

693
00:59:50.920 --> 00:59:55.039
that's that was the quality. That
was this pivotal case of supporting the

694
00:59:55.760 --> 01:00:02.639
veracity of what they're saying. So
the Interestingly, many years later, I'd

695
01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:07.360
say about five or six years ago, here's an interesting development. Calvin not

696
01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:12.760
only did not want any publicity later
in life, he actually began to go

697
01:00:12.800 --> 01:00:17.880
by an assumed name. He changes
his name from Calvin to Randy. I

698
01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:21.159
don't know what last name he used. I don't know if he didn't legally

699
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:25.039
change it. But he got jobs
and employment and signed the lease agreement,

700
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:31.519
says Randy, and well it was
one name. Randy and his wife were

701
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:37.639
at a funeral down in Pascola.
They signed into the funeral home and Randy

702
01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:43.199
Calvin Parker had forgotten and he started
to sign his name on the register,

703
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:45.840
Calvin Parker, and he walked away, and someone came up and said,

704
01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:49.840
well, wait a minute, This
is Calvin Parker. Hey, he's a

705
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.920
guy got red, he got abducted
back then, is that you Calvin Parker?

706
01:00:53.440 --> 01:00:58.880
Because Calvin Parker had been laying low
all these year, Calvin closed his

707
01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:01.920
eyes, he said, oh,
oh no, and his wife said,

708
01:01:01.960 --> 01:01:07.079
this isn't right. We're at a
funeral of a man that we knew.

709
01:01:07.199 --> 01:01:09.480
This isn't right to do his funeral
like this. Let's go. So on

710
01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:14.599
the way to the car. Why
Nett is her name? Why Nett park

711
01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:19.000
She turned to Calvin, who had
gotten a request just that week from a

712
01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:22.679
publisher, would you please reconsider would
you do a book about the famous Pascaboula

713
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.880
event, which he kept turning down, partly because he says, I'm not

714
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:30.400
a real writer. They'll they'll have
a writer rewrite it for me. It

715
01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:35.119
won't be my truth. He was
actually very skeptical, and also he didn't

716
01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:37.559
want publicity. But finally Why Nett
turned in and said, well, Calvin,

717
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:40.800
do you need any more evidence?
You've got to write that book.

718
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:45.800
You can't keep having this happen.
Here's another detail. It turned out that

719
01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:51.639
in all their years together they were
together when the abduction happened. They were

720
01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:57.760
childhood sweethearts. This is almost inconceivable
in today's world. They stayed together.

721
01:01:58.440 --> 01:02:01.239
She never asked Calvin exactly what had
happened that day, and he never wanted

722
01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:07.639
to tell her. He was so
deeply disturbed by it that the unspoken agreement

723
01:02:07.719 --> 01:02:10.519
was, Calvin, you will tell
me what it was when you're ready.

724
01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:14.960
They went on and had a child
together. They had a life together.

725
01:02:15.320 --> 01:02:17.719
Calvin told me when he met me, said, mister Thompson, I don't

726
01:02:17.719 --> 01:02:22.559
know what your relationships are like,
but can you imagine having a wife of

727
01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:27.480
twenty five years a four year and
you never talk about something like that.

728
01:02:27.639 --> 01:02:32.519
It will take a toll. And
this took a toll. But he felt

729
01:02:32.559 --> 01:02:37.480
that moment in the funeral home when, when he was no longer Brandy,

730
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:43.920
his deeper unconsciousness, sign your real
name. This isn't working out being Randy,

731
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:46.199
so I write in the book.
It was like Calvin Perker was able

732
01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:51.639
to say, so long Randy,
been weird to know you. I don't

733
01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:53.960
need you anymore. He became Calvin
again. He wrote the book, and

734
01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:58.440
when he wrote the book under his
own name and it was published, had

735
01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:01.360
a book signing there in Pascal go
Well. People came out, they said,

736
01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:06.360
Calvin Parker's back. He wrote a
book. Finally, people came out

737
01:03:06.440 --> 01:03:08.360
to his signing and said, can
I take you aside and tell you what

738
01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:12.840
I saw that night, Calvin,
I was working at the shipyard down the

739
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:16.639
road and I saw the lights.
Oh interesting, So fifty years later by

740
01:03:16.679 --> 01:03:21.480
a man taking on his true identity
again it stepping up to the experience and

741
01:03:21.519 --> 01:03:23.920
said, yes, this happened.
I wish it hadn't, but it did.

742
01:03:24.199 --> 01:03:29.199
And then other witnesses came forward,
so it was like a time release

743
01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:35.239
revelation. Yeah, he was like
one of the further very early abductees other

744
01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:38.719
than Barney and Betty Hill, who's
also a little earlier than him. But

745
01:03:39.119 --> 01:03:44.599
can you describe in this wonderful Keith
that you were able to meet with him

746
01:03:44.599 --> 01:03:51.280
before he passed, because that's the
man himself. What did he describe?

747
01:03:51.880 --> 01:03:58.920
What he mentioned in his words,
what these aliens look like. They were

748
01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:04.239
big and buld g uh. They
they look like they they were mud covered.

749
01:04:04.800 --> 01:04:10.840
They were just like a blob.
They had they did not have facial

750
01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:15.320
features. He actually said that he
felt when they picked him up, he

751
01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:19.480
felt that a stab in his body, that perhaps he had been injected with

752
01:04:19.519 --> 01:04:27.280
something, and even aboard the craft
they went through this medical examination. He

753
01:04:27.320 --> 01:04:30.079
said that the one creature that had
carried him in, he said, it

754
01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:34.400
sidled over to the wall and kind
of laid again, stood against the wall,

755
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:39.400
and it seemed to shut down.
He said, that's what I thought.

756
01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:44.519
Maybe it was a robot. So
then incomes into the room comes a

757
01:04:44.559 --> 01:04:54.480
more feminine female creature, a different
more morphology with with long fingers, extremely

758
01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:59.239
long fingers, gray features or no, I don't remember the color. But

759
01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:04.320
she opened his mouth and he put
her finger down his throat, and he

760
01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:08.800
says, you know it, that
what should call it? Thing that hangs

761
01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:12.159
down there in your throat, that
what you might call it? And the

762
01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:15.280
juvia, And she says, I'm
sorry. I don't mean to be hurting

763
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:18.079
you. And I thought to myself, well, it's a little late for

764
01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:21.119
that. You just put your finger
down my throat. He had a marvelous

765
01:05:21.159 --> 01:05:26.679
sense of humor and irony about this, not a well educated man in official

766
01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:30.000
terms, even near the end of
his life. Well, he told me,

767
01:05:30.239 --> 01:05:31.840
I said, what's it like not
being believed? We were sitting on

768
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:36.320
his back porch, screened in area, next to a beautiful lakey into a

769
01:05:36.360 --> 01:05:41.239
small boat he used to go out
on and we were listening to just right

770
01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:45.119
out of Central casting, this said
ODIs Redding singing on the dock of the

771
01:05:45.159 --> 01:05:47.760
bay. He had it wired in
his back in a nice music setup.

772
01:05:48.039 --> 01:05:50.800
Who were listening to that? I
said, what's it like not being believed

773
01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:56.400
so radically disbelieved? He said,
well, I'll tell you something. I

774
01:05:56.480 --> 01:06:00.639
understand it. I understand these debunkers. They have a role to play in

775
01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:03.800
all of this, because if you
have not experienced this, the natural human

776
01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:08.400
thing is to ridicule and push it
all away. He said, you could

777
01:06:08.400 --> 01:06:11.519
talk with me till the cows come
in. I'm never going You probably noticed

778
01:06:11.559 --> 01:06:15.159
I don't do what they call embellishing. That's the term I've been told.

779
01:06:15.239 --> 01:06:17.880
That's when you embellish your story to
make it more convincing by adding more details.

780
01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:20.480
I'd like to tell you new detail, but I don't have any new

781
01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:24.519
day. I can only tell you
the truth as I recall it. And

782
01:06:24.519 --> 01:06:29.559
he said, to this day,
I do not know exactly what they were

783
01:06:29.719 --> 01:06:33.079
or where they were from what happened, but I do know it happened.

784
01:06:33.719 --> 01:06:42.199
So that's funny you mentioned that because
most of the classic abductions with these extremely

785
01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:46.760
advanced beings have no language. You
don't, they don't speak, but it's

786
01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:54.599
telepathy. Now, did Kelvin have
a telepathic conversation or was he spoken to

787
01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:58.880
in any way? No, I'm
I'm glad you're clarified that I meant to

788
01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:02.840
say communicated. It was so she's
communicated to him. I'm sorry, I

789
01:07:02.840 --> 01:07:06.360
didn't mean to hurt your throat,
and he thought he communicated back, well,

790
01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:10.280
it's a little late for that.
Get your finger out of my throat.

791
01:07:11.079 --> 01:07:13.400
But it was all communication. And
I said, do you know what

792
01:07:13.440 --> 01:07:16.440
that means to Calvin as far as
that goes that if it happened telepathically,

793
01:07:16.760 --> 01:07:20.800
it means that you have a capacity
for telepathy. It means that probably all

794
01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:25.920
of us have a capacity for telepathy. It's part. It's probably a latent

795
01:07:26.280 --> 01:07:29.039
human trait. And he said,
well, I never thought of that.

796
01:07:29.239 --> 01:07:31.400
He said, that's why I need
someone like you who's a writer come in

797
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:34.920
and help me out. That's a
good point, Waitley, he said that

798
01:07:34.960 --> 01:07:39.920
we all are psychic. Come out
here, was Mark. I said,

799
01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:43.840
I'm not your authority, but haven't
you had experiences in your life when you

800
01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:46.880
when you kind of knew what someone
was thinking or you were thinking of so

801
01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:49.039
on, and they showed up.
He go, I have those all the

802
01:07:49.039 --> 01:07:53.440
time, and I've had them even
more. I think this thing has probably

803
01:07:53.480 --> 01:07:58.920
made my what you call my psychic
abilities even stronger that but that's not something

804
01:07:58.920 --> 01:08:00.920
you want to talk about, Casuh
either. He had a one sense of

805
01:08:01.039 --> 01:08:04.480
what was smart and not smart to
talk about in terms of this stuff.

806
01:08:04.480 --> 01:08:06.840
And I had I told him.
I sold him of some of my own

807
01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:11.639
experience. I had a near death
experience in my twenties, and I won't

808
01:08:11.679 --> 01:08:15.199
go into that deeply here, but
it's in the book. And I had

809
01:08:15.239 --> 01:08:17.560
come back from that was before the
near death experience had been made famous by

810
01:08:17.680 --> 01:08:23.560
Raymond Moody with his book Life After
Life. And I told people when I

811
01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:28.079
recovered from a near drowning off the
coast of Hawaii, and somehow I got

812
01:08:28.119 --> 01:08:31.840
brought into the cove, a quiet
cove back in my body after being out

813
01:08:31.880 --> 01:08:38.039
of my body and seeing the body
swimming. The remarkable when you see yourself

814
01:08:38.079 --> 01:08:43.159
from a different perspective in that way, and I came back in. And

815
01:08:44.159 --> 01:08:47.439
when I said that I had experienced
dying, but I had come back,

816
01:08:48.199 --> 01:08:50.880
my friends who'd been on the coast, on the edge of the water,

817
01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:55.520
hoping that I would survive this.
We were all out body surfing. I

818
01:08:55.600 --> 01:08:59.000
got out too far. I got
taken away by the riptide. One of

819
01:08:59.039 --> 01:09:01.520
them said, we thought you had
given it up out there. I said,

820
01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:05.640
well, I did. I came
right to death. I think I

821
01:09:05.720 --> 01:09:08.880
died, and I came back.
I went to a place that was like

822
01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:11.600
and blah blah blah. Yeah.
And I could tell by the way they

823
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:15.520
looked at me, this is not
a good cocktail conversation that if I was

824
01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:17.720
going to And because nobody knew about
the near death experience, I'm old enough

825
01:09:17.760 --> 01:09:23.600
to have been to have had one
prior to it becoming a household term.

826
01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:28.399
The stages of the tunnel, visiting
your relatives, reviewing your life, reliving

827
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:30.199
your life. I had all of
that, and I told everybody about it,

828
01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:34.199
and I basically the feedback I got
was, you're a candidate for psychotherapy.

829
01:09:34.359 --> 01:09:38.680
You're going to have a lot of
work to get over this trauma where

830
01:09:38.720 --> 01:09:43.159
you believe well now, all of
them eventually told me later when they learned

831
01:09:43.159 --> 01:09:45.319
about the near death experience, Keith, you were describing a real experience that

832
01:09:45.439 --> 01:09:50.000
day That's why I have such affinity
for the UFO witness, because even though

833
01:09:50.039 --> 01:09:56.359
I've not seen a UFO myself per
se, I have had larger than life

834
01:09:56.399 --> 01:10:00.439
experiences that I've got really good feedback
from others. Don't talk about that because

835
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:04.119
you make us nervous. We like
to think that reality is settled and you

836
01:10:04.279 --> 01:10:08.439
are bringing it out. That's so
funny you mentioned that, because I think

837
01:10:08.479 --> 01:10:12.880
it is disturbing to people, and
I have the same issue when I speak

838
01:10:12.880 --> 01:10:18.399
to people about UFOs and alien interactions. It is unsettling because it's the unknown

839
01:10:18.439 --> 01:10:24.520
that we cannot We were not told
how to react. And this is why

840
01:10:24.520 --> 01:10:29.000
I'm very unhappy with our own government, is that they're not helping us.

841
01:10:29.439 --> 01:10:34.840
They're not helping us by giving us
parameters to process. How do we process

842
01:10:34.880 --> 01:10:41.680
this data? We're getting it from
outsiders like yourself, who are giving us

843
01:10:41.680 --> 01:10:48.159
a history of this interaction, but
without a government or a lesson or a

844
01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:55.640
teacher or someone to show us the
way, we're being traumatized and we're left

845
01:10:55.680 --> 01:11:00.159
to our own devices in how to
process. So many exampsm When you study

846
01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:08.800
the history of how worldviews change,
what called paradigms worldviews prevailing worldview holds in

847
01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:13.640
place until there start to be anomalies, start to be aspects that don't fit

848
01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:16.199
the prevailing picture. Then there's an
effort. Well, we got to resolve

849
01:11:16.239 --> 01:11:21.359
the anomalies. They're probably just measurement
problems in the scientific procedures. We need

850
01:11:21.359 --> 01:11:26.560
to get better calibrations. There must
be some glitches in the way we've designed

851
01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:30.199
the experiment, but there aren't any
real anomalies. We've really answered the main

852
01:11:30.279 --> 01:11:34.760
questions. Well, that's a historically
popular belief. One of the big ones

853
01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:42.479
was when an Italian astronomer named Galileo
did some computations and he invented or had

854
01:11:42.520 --> 01:11:45.359
access to a device that had recently
invented, called a telescope, and he

855
01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:49.840
used that telescope in his computations to
come up with some interesting news from the

856
01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:55.960
universe, namely that the Earth orbited
the Sun, not the Sun orbited the

857
01:11:55.960 --> 01:11:59.359
Earth. There came knocks on his
doors, so to speak, from the

858
01:11:59.439 --> 01:12:02.840
Vatican, the men in robes,
the religious authorities, saying you've got to

859
01:12:02.840 --> 01:12:05.520
stop saying this, And he said, well, you don't have to.

860
01:12:05.560 --> 01:12:09.680
Galileo says, you don't need to
take my word for it. Look at

861
01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:14.279
my calculations and look through my telescope. Though that's a historically famous anecdote.

862
01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:18.079
They refuse to look through his telescope. They refused to avail themselves of the

863
01:12:18.199 --> 01:12:24.399
very procedures that would have allowed them
to empirically see the same thing Galileo saw.

864
01:12:24.520 --> 01:12:27.840
So just think of all the other
ways in life you present evidence to

865
01:12:27.880 --> 01:12:31.239
people to trust me. You don't
have to trust me that the results of

866
01:12:31.279 --> 01:12:35.960
this government program actually led to the
opposite outcomes. Just look, ever,

867
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:41.199
since we implemented that act to get
rid of X Y or Z, we've

868
01:12:41.199 --> 01:12:45.439
made x Y or z more of
a problem. That's called evidence. Some

869
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:47.720
people said, well, that wasn't
the reason we need more of that program.

870
01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:51.319
So anyway, Galileo finally turned out
to be right. I was always

871
01:12:51.439 --> 01:12:56.079
right. There was nothing new.
Nature wasn't revealing anything new. It took

872
01:12:56.199 --> 01:12:59.640
us time to resolve this, and
I think it was in the nineteen sixties

873
01:12:59.720 --> 01:13:04.000
or some time embarrassingly later, like
almost a Saturday Night Live comic episode where

874
01:13:04.039 --> 01:13:10.720
the Where the Where the Vatican comes
knocking again and says, never mind,

875
01:13:11.520 --> 01:13:14.239
never mind, we were wrong about
that. I guess that you were right

876
01:13:14.279 --> 01:13:18.079
about the Earth orbiting the Sun.
Exactly, and that's what we're dealing with.

877
01:13:18.319 --> 01:13:21.760
I think in these other things,
these other phenomena there, we're currently

878
01:13:21.800 --> 01:13:26.039
existing. We're living in a time
when the prevailing paradigm, that is,

879
01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:29.720
for some various reasons, said,
we're not going to deal with the effect

880
01:13:29.800 --> 01:13:31.960
of consciousness. We're not going to
ask questions about it. We're going to

881
01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:38.119
assume that the world is entirely made
of dead matter, spinning, and tiny

882
01:13:38.159 --> 01:13:43.600
particles called molecules that can't tiny particles
called molecules that can't communicate with each other,

883
01:13:44.239 --> 01:13:46.760
but they do communicate with that we
appear to live in a totally psychic

884
01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:54.119
universe. Has how we can explain
such things as the Nobel Prize Science Nobel

885
01:13:54.199 --> 01:13:59.640
Science Prize one or two years ago
was given to the experiment of Entangled Particles

886
01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:03.840
Angled phenomena tangled photons, which just
briefly stated a device would send out two

887
01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:09.960
photons in completely opposite directions in far
great distances, and found that no matter

888
01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:13.520
how far part they were, and
no matter what kind of efforts were made

889
01:14:13.560 --> 01:14:17.279
to control for some kind of a
problem in the experiment, the two particles

890
01:14:17.359 --> 01:14:25.479
remained in communication with the two like
particles called photons remained in communication, each

891
01:14:25.600 --> 01:14:30.079
influencing the other. That's not supposed
to happen, but it opens the door

892
01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:33.119
to the paranormal, to the near
death, to the phenomena of the near

893
01:14:33.159 --> 01:14:40.000
death experience, the out about experience, and took precognition to let the clairvoyance.

894
01:14:40.479 --> 01:14:45.640
So I'm not asking anyone to take
beliefs on board, just asking to

895
01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:48.000
look at the evidence and see that
it points to them. Just that we

896
01:14:48.039 --> 01:14:53.720
live in a larger, more inclusive
realm than our official maps are telling us.

897
01:14:54.079 --> 01:14:59.600
The books called the UFO Paradox,
the subtitle is The Celestial and Symbolic

898
01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:04.520
World of Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. As
we close, Keith, I want you

899
01:15:04.640 --> 01:15:12.000
to talk a little bit about one
of the great observers of the abduction phenomenon,

900
01:15:12.039 --> 01:15:16.680
doctor John Mack, who I knew
personally, who was taken from us

901
01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:23.159
at a very early age, unfortunately, and I want you to talk about

902
01:15:23.279 --> 01:15:30.920
a little bit about his Zimbabwe research. What made mac so important was the

903
01:15:30.960 --> 01:15:35.079
fact that he didn't stay within the
United States and study the abduction phenomenon in

904
01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:43.159
our country. He literally ran around
the world and interviewed people who had had

905
01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:47.000
apparent abductions. Talk about and you
featured this in your book. For those

906
01:15:47.039 --> 01:15:54.319
of you listening, excellent example of
an abduction phenomenon seen by excuse me,

907
01:15:54.399 --> 01:16:00.119
not an abduction, but a UFO
landing and actual beings seen by a large

908
01:16:00.119 --> 01:16:08.560
group of people. So talk about
the Zimbabwe event. Yes, in nineteen

909
01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:13.520
ninety four a school in Zimbabwe called
the Aerial School a R I e L.

910
01:16:13.640 --> 01:16:15.159
Not aerial as in outer in and
out in terms of the sky.

911
01:16:16.399 --> 01:16:20.279
The kids were playground on the playground
a recess. All the teachers and staff

912
01:16:20.279 --> 01:16:25.640
were at a meeting, which is
in some ways almost symbolically interesting that there

913
01:16:25.680 --> 01:16:28.880
was that kind of segregation of that
happened. All the kids were out on

914
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:32.560
the playground sixty seventy or more,
and somebody caught a glimpse of a light

915
01:16:32.680 --> 01:16:36.159
off to the side, coming through
the trees, and it began to resolve

916
01:16:36.239 --> 01:16:42.039
itself to appear to be a kind
of unusual craft. It seemed to break

917
01:16:42.079 --> 01:16:46.520
into other craft. There were creatures, aliens, beings who stepped outside,

918
01:16:46.840 --> 01:16:51.119
walked in strange ways, had big, dark eyes. And a little girl

919
01:16:51.199 --> 01:16:58.359
named Emily Trim got close enough locked
eyes with this creature and felt that there

920
01:16:58.399 --> 01:17:04.560
was some deep transmission of infer again
telepathic. She later reported that she was

921
01:17:04.640 --> 01:17:11.159
being told to be careful about technology. Human beings must be careful about don't

922
01:17:11.199 --> 01:17:15.680
get too technologized, was her eight
year old way of saying it, that

923
01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:23.359
that we were facing environmental calamity eventually. So this was seen by multiple students.

924
01:17:23.399 --> 01:17:27.640
They separated the students, they all
drew pictures of it, and John

925
01:17:27.720 --> 01:17:30.319
Mack was told about it. It
was called because he was understood to be

926
01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:33.880
doing this kind of work in the
United States. So a BBC correspondent called

927
01:17:33.920 --> 01:17:38.119
him, as I described in the
book, So doctor Mac, we need

928
01:17:38.159 --> 01:17:41.600
you here in Zimbabwe. Can you
get here? This is beyond my pay

929
01:17:41.640 --> 01:17:45.159
grade And I'm already being called a
lunatic for taking it seriously, need some

930
01:17:45.279 --> 01:17:49.439
backup here. So sure enough Mack
flew in met with the students. Because

931
01:17:49.479 --> 01:17:54.359
he was a psychiatrist, he had
a good manner of being able to draw

932
01:17:54.439 --> 01:18:00.880
the kids out and another example of
a researcher and empiricist being willing to follow

933
01:18:00.920 --> 01:18:05.399
the evidence where it led and talk
with these students and a document a siding

934
01:18:05.439 --> 01:18:13.760
that was probably the most credible mass
sighting of our time. But because it

935
01:18:13.840 --> 01:18:16.760
was the children on the playground without
any adults. It's almost like a built

936
01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:21.680
in control as a way to well, the children probably just made up all

937
01:18:21.760 --> 01:18:28.359
of these similarities and made up all
these details as an exercise, just real

938
01:18:28.399 --> 01:18:32.119
briefly. Emily went back to era
A school decades later for a reunion.

939
01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:39.319
She met with a local indigenous spiritual
tradition who she had never met before when

940
01:18:39.359 --> 01:18:42.000
she was there as a student,
and she'd been struggling in her life because

941
01:18:42.000 --> 01:18:45.399
her family did not support her in
terms of coming to terms with it.

942
01:18:45.720 --> 01:18:47.479
And he told her that you're asking
me whether you should talk about this.

943
01:18:47.920 --> 01:18:50.920
Yes, you must talk about it. It happened to you as a child,

944
01:18:51.159 --> 01:18:55.800
and you must speak your truth.
And it is important for you to

945
01:18:55.800 --> 01:18:59.119
speak your truth. You should shout
your truth. So her parents, who

946
01:18:59.159 --> 01:19:01.760
were Christian, told her at the
time, this couldn't have happened, Emily,

947
01:19:02.399 --> 01:19:06.720
it couldn't have happened. It's not
in the Bible. Keep quiet.

948
01:19:06.920 --> 01:19:12.439
And Duke, the spiritual teacher back
in Zimbabwe decades later, said you must

949
01:19:12.439 --> 01:19:15.800
talk about it. You must shout
about it. She followed his path.

950
01:19:15.680 --> 01:19:19.760
She had to turn around in her
life by finally saying, what had happened

951
01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:24.399
to me? Did happen to me. What I experienced was real. I

952
01:19:24.399 --> 01:19:28.359
don't understand it now. I can't
explain it. But do I interview her?

953
01:19:28.479 --> 01:19:31.520
Keith? Did you interview her?
I know I tried to get in

954
01:19:31.560 --> 01:19:34.880
touch with her. She's become over. I don't think she wants to be

955
01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:42.000
the UFO girl anymore. All signs
she's thriving in her life and finding her

956
01:19:42.039 --> 01:19:46.880
own bearings. Was there more to
her story than just not being a technologist

957
01:19:47.399 --> 01:19:57.640
earthlans being technologist? Was there more
specifics that she presents on alien perspective of

958
01:19:57.680 --> 01:20:02.600
earth lanes? I don't recall,
uh, I don't recall many details along

959
01:20:02.640 --> 01:20:08.159
those lines. And I don't think
I had to choose in the transcripts of

960
01:20:09.079 --> 01:20:14.479
when I worked with the trans session
recorded, so I've quoted some stuff,

961
01:20:14.520 --> 01:20:17.119
but so I don't want to be
definitive. It's a great documentary about the

962
01:20:17.159 --> 01:20:23.319
aerial phenomenon. The title of what
Randy Nickerson is the director of Randall Nickerson.

963
01:20:25.960 --> 01:20:29.560
Look up his name anyone listening and
look up you can google that.

964
01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:32.439
I believe it's on Amazon. That's
a documentary though right as a very as

965
01:20:32.479 --> 01:20:36.960
a documentary that shows John Matt coming
in and if I saw that years ago.

966
01:20:39.119 --> 01:20:43.720
Quite quite a great piece of work, right, fantastic. Uh,

967
01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:45.319
this has been great. We've come
to the end of our program again.

968
01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:50.880
The books called The UFO Paradox just
came out. Keith just told me.

969
01:20:50.960 --> 01:20:56.399
It just came out. You can
get it on Amazon and guess what,

970
01:20:57.199 --> 01:21:00.680
John narrates the audible version of it, which you can also get. I

971
01:21:00.680 --> 01:21:03.159
guess we're going to have to wait
a few days for that to come out.

972
01:21:03.199 --> 01:21:06.359
Correct, Actually John didn't, I
did, I'm scarry Keith, Yeah,

973
01:21:06.399 --> 01:21:12.239
Keith, So yeah. The book
is now available on Amazon or bookstores

974
01:21:12.279 --> 01:21:16.359
as a physical book, paperback ebook
available through the online sources, and the

975
01:21:16.399 --> 01:21:20.960
audiobook which I did narrate. And
it's just got delayed in terms of getting

976
01:21:20.960 --> 01:21:25.399
it ready. We hope to have
it ready for the print edition, but

977
01:21:26.119 --> 01:21:28.119
such as it is, so it'll
be on in a few weeks. So

978
01:21:28.199 --> 01:21:30.159
it'll be all kinds of ways to
access it. Okay, Now, do

979
01:21:30.159 --> 01:21:35.920
you have a website. I do. My website is www dot Thompson at

980
01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:41.920
large, dot Compson at large,
ASP at large, Thompson at Large.

981
01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:45.840
I can get emails there and there'll
be links to how to get hold of

982
01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:50.640
the book and I'll also mention that
Keith is going to send a selection of

983
01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:56.880
images that we'll have on our Facebook
page. Go to Facebook or The Angent's

984
01:21:57.479 --> 01:22:02.880
International page, and also the group
page, and we'll have a few highlights

985
01:22:02.960 --> 01:22:10.479
of this interview and the new book, The UFO Paradox. As we conclude,

986
01:22:11.199 --> 01:22:15.399
what would you like to leave the
audience in terms of thoughts and why

987
01:22:15.399 --> 01:22:18.600
they should purchase the book? Well, I think it's I do think it

988
01:22:18.640 --> 01:22:20.920
is. I tried to write the
kind of book i'd want to read about

989
01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:25.800
the phenomenon. There are so many
different aspects. I didn't cover every conceivable

990
01:22:25.880 --> 01:22:29.800
issue, but I tried to give
a kind of a review, including restoring

991
01:22:29.840 --> 01:22:32.279
some of these historical lineages, some
of the key players in the field,

992
01:22:32.600 --> 01:22:39.880
but also to prevent to present just
a solid witness to the quality of the

993
01:22:39.920 --> 01:22:43.600
evidence, the quality of the witnesses, and to this, nevertheless, this

994
01:22:43.800 --> 01:22:51.359
impasse which characteristically forms witnesses give testimony
to extraordinary phenomena, the debunker class claiming

995
01:22:51.399 --> 01:22:57.000
to be genuine skeptics, but essentially
our working as debunkers and scoffers to say

996
01:22:57.039 --> 01:23:00.399
no, it didn't happen. These
things don't happen. Go back home in

997
01:23:00.520 --> 01:23:05.880
the space. In that kind of
stalemate and deadlock, the phenomena gets pushed

998
01:23:05.920 --> 01:23:13.119
down into symbolic psychological realms. I'm
trying to flush it back up and make

999
01:23:13.199 --> 01:23:16.680
these witnesses live with all the dimensions
that you and I have. These are

1000
01:23:16.680 --> 01:23:20.319
real stories to happen. These are
real things that happen to real people,

1001
01:23:20.760 --> 01:23:24.159
and they have the courage to tell
their stories. Of what I would say

1002
01:23:24.159 --> 01:23:29.760
to readers personally and listeners is,
if you've had your own experiences with non

1003
01:23:29.960 --> 01:23:33.800
ordinary phenomena, is it a good
idea to hold a news conference. Probably

1004
01:23:33.840 --> 01:23:39.039
not. You may probably don't want
to go totally public and write a book

1005
01:23:39.039 --> 01:23:42.840
about your experience. That sometimes doesn't
go well for the witness in our culture.

1006
01:23:42.880 --> 01:23:46.039
But tell somebody in your life,
Tell somebody that you trust, family,

1007
01:23:46.159 --> 01:23:50.800
friends, maybe a religious person,
a counselor pastor. Don't live with

1008
01:23:50.840 --> 01:23:55.600
it alone and seek out other people. Create a community of people who are

1009
01:23:55.640 --> 01:24:01.880
willing to hold the ground for reality
that are experientially very real. Yeah,

1010
01:24:02.239 --> 01:24:08.319
Keith Thompson, a pleasure and much
success on this new book, and we'll

1011
01:24:08.319 --> 01:24:11.359
do our part to promote it.
And by the way, those of you

1012
01:24:11.479 --> 01:24:15.439
listening. The publisher is Barn Company, an excellent publisher who has a history

1013
01:24:15.439 --> 01:24:19.640
of publishing these kinds of books.
So it's well edited, it's got great

1014
01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:24.439
information in it, and go out
and get a copy. All right,

1015
01:24:24.520 --> 01:24:27.880
Hey, thanks again, I appreciate
you being on the show. Thanks for

1016
01:24:27.920 --> 01:24:38.239
davitation anytime. Keith is supplying a
small gallery of images from his book as

1017
01:24:38.279 --> 01:24:45.760
well as a series of images of
what can only be described as automatons or

1018
01:24:45.920 --> 01:24:51.600
robots that were used in abducting people, in greeting people, and in some

1019
01:24:51.800 --> 01:24:58.640
cases leading people into their craft.
And this is really strange. One of

1020
01:24:58.680 --> 01:25:06.680
the most well known is the story
of and we mentioned it in the interview,

1021
01:25:06.840 --> 01:25:14.720
the Kelvin Parker abduction, which was
in Mississippi, and I have some

1022
01:25:14.760 --> 01:25:21.039
photographs of the beings that he described
to the Sheriff's department, which they subsequently

1023
01:25:21.359 --> 01:25:28.800
drew for wider distribution as well as
I would think that the local officials wanted

1024
01:25:28.800 --> 01:25:31.520
to know what the hell he was
interacting with. But they appear to be

1025
01:25:31.600 --> 01:25:39.720
robots of some kind and very sophisticated
robots that were flying the ship that were

1026
01:25:40.159 --> 01:25:46.960
performing experiments on port Kelvin and his
associate, and we see this a lot

1027
01:25:47.279 --> 01:25:53.880
we get these stories a lot.
There's other artificial beings that are placed into

1028
01:25:53.960 --> 01:26:00.039
action to do these interactions with humans, probably because of the safety, you

1029
01:26:00.079 --> 01:26:08.239
know, if they if a human
reacts poorly and it's violent, the robot

1030
01:26:08.279 --> 01:26:15.239
can take a beating and be damaged
or destroyed without too much problem. I

1031
01:26:15.239 --> 01:26:18.960
would think, I don't know,
but I have a whole series of these

1032
01:26:19.000 --> 01:26:27.600
images on the Facebook page or things
is International and the group page, and

1033
01:26:27.880 --> 01:26:32.119
just look at some of the oddities
they're they're they're very very strange looking,

1034
01:26:32.479 --> 01:26:36.680
and God knows where they come from. This is what the big question is,

1035
01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:43.079
Where are these beings coming from,
Who's behind them, who's creating them?

1036
01:26:43.119 --> 01:26:45.039
What kind of technology are we talking
about? Is a few hundred is

1037
01:26:45.039 --> 01:26:48.560
it a few hundred years in advance
of us? Or is it thousands and

1038
01:26:48.640 --> 01:26:54.800
thousands of years in advance? We
just don't know. But wouldn't it be

1039
01:26:54.920 --> 01:26:58.880
nice to know? Wouldn't it be
nice to be more receptive to this.

1040
01:26:59.560 --> 01:27:05.840
I don't think the abduction phenomenon has
waivered that much. I think that it's

1041
01:27:05.840 --> 01:27:12.479
still happening. Why is it happening? We don't know all kinds of theories,

1042
01:27:12.479 --> 01:27:16.680
of course, and if our government
does know. I think it's a

1043
01:27:16.720 --> 01:27:19.640
shame that they can't come forward and
just say, hey, this is happening

1044
01:27:20.399 --> 01:27:25.039
and we don't. You know,
it might be that they have no control

1045
01:27:25.079 --> 01:27:30.479
over it and they're just dumbfounded and
they're just being quiet because it's embarrassing.

1046
01:27:30.119 --> 01:27:33.199
You know. The other thing is, and I can see this, if

1047
01:27:33.239 --> 01:27:36.720
they were to say, hey,
there's mass abductions going on, that would

1048
01:27:36.800 --> 01:27:41.119
frighten the hell out of everybody.
But the truth of the matter is,

1049
01:27:41.199 --> 01:27:43.960
and you can see this, and
people we've had on the show, like

1050
01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:48.399
Whitley Streever who has been abducted,
and a number of other people that we've

1051
01:27:48.399 --> 01:27:53.239
had on the program who have been
abducted and taken on a board craft to

1052
01:27:53.319 --> 01:27:57.960
be experimented on. What the hell
can we do about it? You know,

1053
01:27:58.560 --> 01:28:00.319
what the hell can we do?
We should be able to do something.

1054
01:28:00.439 --> 01:28:05.479
So it's going to be very sad
if we find out that our government

1055
01:28:05.560 --> 01:28:12.680
knows about this and they haven't intervened
and whatsoever. So lots of questions,

1056
01:28:13.359 --> 01:28:19.439
lots and lots of questions. So
hey, if you're enjoying Earth Ancients,

1057
01:28:19.520 --> 01:28:26.720
Destiny and Earth Ancient Special Edition,
please consider becoming a subscriber for as little

1058
01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:30.600
as five dollars a month, you
can support the work we do here on

1059
01:28:30.640 --> 01:28:33.880
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you it's not cheap. It's expensive,

1060
01:28:34.319 --> 01:28:39.800
and it's time consuming, and your
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1061
01:28:40.399 --> 01:28:45.039
even twenty dollars a month makes a
huge difference. To become a subscriber,

1062
01:28:45.199 --> 01:28:53.439
go to Patreon, that's pa Treo
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1063
01:28:53.800 --> 01:28:57.520
and you'll see all the details.
Become a subscriber. We got a ton

1064
01:28:57.560 --> 01:29:02.319
of gifts for you, including this
book, The UFO Paradox. You can

1065
01:29:02.319 --> 01:29:08.119
actually get an e version of it
to read when you get a chance,

1066
01:29:08.239 --> 01:29:11.520
as well as I think we're up
to about thirty other books that you can

1067
01:29:11.640 --> 01:29:16.079
peruse at your leisure. Again.
To become a subscriber to help us out

1068
01:29:16.079 --> 01:29:25.079
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1069
01:29:25.359 --> 01:29:30.319
Forward Slash Earth Ancients. All right, that's it for today's program. I

1070
01:29:30.399 --> 01:29:34.359
want to thank my guest today,
Keith Thompson, releasing his new book,

1071
01:29:34.399 --> 01:29:40.960
The UFO Paradox. As always,
the team of Gail tour, Mark Foster

1072
01:29:41.800 --> 01:29:46.399
and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys, rock and I really

1073
01:29:46.399 --> 01:29:50.479
appreciate you, all right, take
care of you well, and we'll talk

1074
01:29:50.520 --> 01:30:49.279
to you next time. A