WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:08.800 You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting 2 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:13.679 podcasts, just go to IFAH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof 3 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:19.000 Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three, fourteen False when things change, I'll be 4 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:25.519 happy True, when I am happy things will change. Kyle Sea's broadcasting from 5 00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:29.239 a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that 6 00:00:29.320 --> 00:00:34.719 next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business 7 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:39.240 of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your 8 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:44.759 host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting 9 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:49.119 Podcast. I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is 10 00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:56.000 sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof 11 00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:00.719 Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you are are in the goals 12 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:03.480 of the project you are, so we actually break it down by three categories 13 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:07.400 micro budget, indie film, market, and studio film. There's no reason 14 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:11.200 to get coverage from a reader that's used to reading tentpole movies when your movie 15 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:15.319 is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars, and we wanted to 16 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:19.200 focus on that. At Bulletproof script coverage, our readers have worked with Marvel 17 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:23.680 Studios, CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney, Scott Free, 18 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:26.959 Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. So if you need 19 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:34.319 your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers, head on over to cover 20 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:42.239 my screenplay dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host Jason Buff Without any 21 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:45.200 further Ado, let me get to David Allen a quick introduction. He is 22 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:49.120 the author of the amazing book Getting Things Done. It's a book that's influenced 23 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:53.760 tons and tons of filmmakers out there, in addition to people. You know, 24 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:57.640 he's spoken at Google, he's done Ted Talks. I'm really lucky that 25 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.400 he's come on the show because he influence me a lot too. You know, 26 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:04.959 as a creative person, I'm kind of all over the map and fairly 27 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.919 disorganized, and his book really kind of lays out a plan so that you 28 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:13.800 can, you know, basically get things done, how that you can you 29 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:15.840 know, start working on things not having a million things in your head, 30 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:22.800 you know, especially for screenwriters or people who are trying to produce a movie, 31 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:25.240 it's hard to know. Sometimes you know what to do next. You 32 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:30.159 wake up and it's like it's such a large enterprise writing a screenplay or producing 33 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:34.400 a movie or whatever you want to do. It's so huge. It's like, 34 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:36.719 what am I going to do today? What am I what's the one 35 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:40.439 thing that I'm going to do today to start moving forward? And you know, 36 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:44.560 his book lays that out and talks about a lot of different things, 37 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.120 and we'll get into that. So anyway, here's my interview with David Allen. 38 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:52.360 For the people who you know are listening to this are mostly writers, 39 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:57.680 producers, people that want to make independent films. And I was hoping that 40 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:00.800 you could take a moment just to talk about the system to getting things done 41 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:07.039 system and what the ideas behind it, the concepts behind it. Sure, 42 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:10.080 one of the basic concepts is that your heads for having ideas but not for 43 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:15.360 holding them. People actually don't need time, they need space. I mean, 44 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:19.840 how much time does it take to have a creative idea in zero? 45 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:24.159 But you need room? So what the GPD system is? It really was 46 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:30.599 over the years this sort of unfolded as to what are the techniques that actually 47 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:35.919 you're that allow you to actually clear your head, get stuff off your mind, 48 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:39.120 but not necessarily having to finish them and still be committed to them. 49 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:44.319 So how do you manage all those agreements with yourself in some external way as 50 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:46.199 opposed to having your head as an office. Your head's a crappy office, 51 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:50.520 by the way, it's a crappy studio, it really is. I mean, 52 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:53.759 it'll if you have stuff in your head, there's a part of you 53 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:58.240 that thinks you should be doing all of it all the time. So your 54 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:01.919 head is consistent trying to multitask, which you can't do. That is, 55 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:05.199 you can't focus, you know, with focused attention to more than one thing 56 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:08.520 at a time. But there's a part of your head that's trying to do 57 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:13.960 that if your head's the only place it's holding stuff. So just like people 58 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:15.439 keep calendars called you know, I say, well, why do you keep 59 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:17.800 a calendar? Well, because my head can't do that. Well, why 60 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:21.160 do you think your head can do everything else? And not that it's like, 61 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:25.480 well, doesn't make much sense. You know, if you don't want 62 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:28.160 to track stuff out of your head, throw away your calendar. Don't be 63 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:34.680 intellectual to dishonest. So it's really about how do I externalize and objectify all 64 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:38.920 of my work, and work in the broadest sense called anything you want to 65 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:42.000 get done that ain't done yet. That's get cat food as well as you 66 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:45.319 know, have been to do business plan as well as you know, produce 67 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:48.680 the next movie. So all of those things just need to be externalized. 68 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:54.920 That that allows you to see the difference and actually, you know, cognitively 69 00:04:55.079 --> 00:05:00.199 catch the difference between and of weight between dog food or cat food and duce 70 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:02.199 movie in your head. Believe it or not, they take up about the 71 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:06.240 same amount of space, and either one will wake up at three o'clock in 72 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:09.680 the morning when you actually can't do anything about it. Your head is actually 73 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:15.399 kind of a dumb terminal and it really it. You'll be driven by latest 74 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:20.639 and loudest by things in there, right, So it's really about all that's 75 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:25.199 behind it. So, but they're specific techniques. You can't just you can't 76 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:30.240 just clear your head by meditating or drinking. You know, you know I 77 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:35.120 do both, I know, so I know you know you can leave your 78 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:41.000 head or numb it out, but it won't clear it, right, So 79 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:45.279 can you talk about some of the techniques that you recommend. Sure, I'll 80 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:49.079 give you the twenty second version. Whoever's listening to this, hang on ready, 81 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:57.079 capture any potentially meaningful thing on your mind in some trusted place that you 82 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:01.160 then clarify exactly what that thing means sooner than later in terms of whether it's 83 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:04.600 actionable, and if so, what you're going to do about it, and 84 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:11.120 the next action and the outcome you're committed to. Then step back and review 85 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:15.279 those things in appropriate categories, so that some part of you is constantly maintaining 86 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.720 an inventory of your gestalt, of all of your different commitments and all the 87 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:21.680 different horizons, and trust your heart or your gut or see your pants or 88 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:26.720 your spirit or whatever you trust to make a good intuitive judgment call moment to 89 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:34.680 moment about what you do. That's it. Okay, that'll take you two 90 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:39.680 years to build that as a happy Yeah, that was a very quick explanation. 91 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.279 Even if you understand it, it's easy to understand. It takes two 92 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:46.279 minutes to understand the model. It's about two days if you actually were going 93 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.160 to implement it like literally it literally empty everything out of your head and go 94 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:54.199 through and make next action decisions about them and create an organizational structure you know 95 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:57.839 that holds all that and then about two years to make that habitual so that 96 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:01.240 you'd feel uncomfortable if you weren't doing it right. So you talk a lot 97 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:05.079 about taking notes. I mean, what in a typical day do you just 98 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:10.839 like, how do you organize all those things that are going on in your 99 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:14.040 life? Or how should people try to do that to get it out of 100 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.560 their head? Yeah, it's they're capturing stuff is very different than organizing. 101 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.040 So I've got you know, I've got notepad right on my desk right now. 102 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:24.319 You know, it has a phone number on it. I tried to 103 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:28.079 call and nobody answered or it was busy, but I got to call him 104 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:31.040 again because I can make an appointment about my eyes. So it's just on 105 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.040 that notepad. If I, if I don't finish that, call that notepad 106 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:38.279 by the way that we'll go. We'll get torn off that page and thrown 107 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:42.199 into my in basket. In which case then later on, you know, 108 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.480 sooner than later, I will drive all that to empty by deciding, okay, 109 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:46.920 where does that go? Where do I park a reminder about that that 110 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:51.360 I that I need to do. So capturing happens all day long, you 111 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:54.759 know, just at any time point in time, you know, I carry 112 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:58.759 a little notepad around in my pocket, right, and you know it's a 113 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:03.160 great little app called a brain Toss that I can just pop up my iPhone 114 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:05.879 and talk into it and it'll show up right into my email as a as 115 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:11.120 a as a sound file as well as you know, text about it, 116 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:13.959 right, you know any that any of those things work. But you know, 117 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:18.000 I want to have the freedom to have a thought but not have to 118 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.199 decide exactly what to do about it. Yet that actually allows and frees up 119 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:26.279 my creative thinking process. I throw away probably half or three quarters of my 120 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:28.959 notes, you know, But when I have I'm I'm not sure what they 121 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:31.279 mean yet, but they might mean something significant, and so I don't want 122 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:35.080 to lose any of those. But then I need to loop back around from 123 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.759 another part of my brain and then assess that stuff and get executive about it. 124 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:41.519 Call Okay, David, what are you gonna do about that? If 125 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:45.480 anything? What does that mean at a restaurant you really want to track? 126 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:48.120 Or is that a phone number that you need to put in your telephone and 127 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:52.080 address? Is that something you still need to do about that? And those 128 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:56.279 are the clarifying questions you need to ask yourself to decide what this stuff really 129 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:00.320 means. So step one is to capture. Step two is to claire five. 130 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:03.679 Step three is the organize the results of that thinking in that decision, 131 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:07.399 make it okay. That's how that's how you get your kitchen under control. 132 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:13.159 By the way, what is it looks like? You know, tornado hit 133 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.679 it? Oh my god, I got guess coming over. The first thing 134 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:20.639 you do is you recognize what's not on cruise control. You capture, you 135 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.960 identify stuff that's that you probably need to decide and do something about. Number 136 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.039 two is you need to clarify is that still good food goes in the fridge? 137 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.559 Is that trash that goes away? Is that is that dirty dish? 138 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:35.759 Or is that cleanland? And then you organize those You put spices where spices 139 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:37.279 go, You put dirty dishes where dirty dishes go, You put trash where 140 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.440 trash goes. Big duh. But that's what you need to do with every 141 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:45.559 email, with every thought, with every creative thing that pops into your head, 142 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.000 if you want to get it under control and not have it run you 143 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:56.480 Right, We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now 144 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:01.120 back to the show. Yeah, that's a huge thing, especially when it 145 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:05.519 comes to you know, screenwriting, and most of the writers I know that 146 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:09.840 day and I'm also a writer, but you you know, we're constantly with 147 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:13.679 notebooks because you never you you have these ideas and if they're gone, they 148 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:16.840 you know, sometimes you're just like, you know, what, what was? 149 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.360 I had this amazing idea and now it's gone, you know, And 150 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.320 so we we've gotten in the habit of taking notes. And what you know, 151 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:31.240 I get a lot out of the um GTD system is that you should 152 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:33.600 be constantly taking notes, but about every aspect of your life, so that 153 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:37.879 you're not constantly in the state of being overwhelmed by thinking, I've got a 154 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.039 million things to do, I don't know what to I don't know what the 155 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:45.080 next step is going to be right, And you obviously don't need to write 156 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:48.080 down the fifty thousand thoughts you have a day. You just need to write 157 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:52.200 down the ones that aren't complete when you have them, there's still something I 158 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:56.320 might need to do about that, as opposed to just grazing in your mind. 159 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:01.679 M Okay, Now, what is your feeling towards things like multitasking or 160 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:07.600 you know, people who can kind of sit there and do like five things 161 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.200 at the same time. They can't. They can rapidly switch, but whether 162 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:16.919 they're actually increasing their performance by doing that is in question. There's a couple 163 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.720 of new books out that have come out in the last year of a lot 164 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:24.000 of cognitive science research that has basically proven that's you know, that's bs if 165 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.159 you think you're that's going to actually increase your capability to be able to do 166 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:33.720 that. Now, that said, if you can rapidly switch your focus with 167 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:37.279 a placeholder. In other words, if you sort of interrupted me, Jason, 168 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:39.120 you came in, you suddenly walked in and say, hey, David, 169 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.879 by the way, could you do explain and Z let's talk for three 170 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:46.759 minutes or whatever. And I was in the middle of doing something. As 171 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:48.919 long as I have a placeholder for that thing I was doing, so I 172 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:52.240 don't have to keep re remembering that I need to do that. In other 173 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:56.320 words, I'll throw the notes or what my work literally right into my own 174 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:00.240 physical in basket and I'll turn around it and engage with you. Why because 175 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.080 I got a placeholder that as soon as I stop engaging with you, I 176 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.879 can pick that right up. But that leaves my brain clear to enough focus 177 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:09.559 on you and whatever's going on there, as opposed to trying to keep hanging 178 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:15.399 onto it. So that's why having an external brain and having the capability to 179 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:20.480 be able to capture and placehold stuff that's not finished in some trusted place will 180 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:24.879 allow you to switch rapidly. If you don't do that, then you truly 181 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.960 and they've proven this that that you your cognitive function is suboptimal. You're trying 182 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.679 to You're switching costs are huge. You trying to focus over there, but 183 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:35.440 there's a part of you that's still hanging your focus back to where it was, 184 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:39.480 that doesn't want to forget it. But then you're so you're not fully 185 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:43.559 present really with any of that. And people can get pretty good at what 186 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:48.440 it looks like. But this is a you know, there's new there's a 187 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:52.799 lot of data out there now that that proves that's not true. They've they've 188 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:58.440 even found that that even using hands free phones in your car is as dangerous 189 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:03.600 statistically as texting, simply because of the switching costs in your mind. So 190 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.360 you'll think, you'll you'll think you're driving in the you know, in the 191 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.480 right lane, and the brain kind of will kid you to think that's true, 192 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:16.480 and actually that's visually what you see, But your mind went off somewhere 193 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.080 else on that phone call that you were talking about, and it's actually that's 194 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.320 actually not true. Surprised me to read that data, but that's yeah, 195 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:30.559 that's all that's you know, what happens. Your brain is really wasn't designed 196 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:33.039 to hold onto more than about four meaningful things at once. It does that 197 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:37.000 very well, by the way. That's how you survived on the savanna. 198 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:41.799 That's how you could eat and not be eaten. But that brain took you 199 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:43.639 know, however, many millions of years it developed to be able to do 200 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:48.720 that very well. So your brain can recognize brilliantly, even better, way 201 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.840 better than any computer. Yet you walk into a room, you recognize patterns. 202 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:54.879 You see, that's a light, that's a chair, that's a person, 203 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:58.279 that's a thing, that's a printer, And the computer still can't even 204 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:00.399 do that. Yet you're doing that all the time, by the way. 205 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.440 Your brain is brilliant at that, using long term memory, pattern recognition, 206 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:07.159 making sense out of your world. But it's totally present when it does that. 207 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:13.080 What your brain can't do is remember where you left your keys. But 208 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:16.120 you know that was one of the really things. I loved your Ted talk 209 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.879 when you were talking about how the brain has almost stay you know, and 210 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:26.639 correct me if this wasn't what you were saying, but the brain's tendency to 211 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:31.799 be a natural planner to the point of or that we've kind of gotten away 212 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:37.039 from the way that the mind works and we've started kind of changing the way 213 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:43.720 that we accomplish goals in a somewhat unnatural way. Yeah, yeah, it's 214 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:46.840 fascinating. It was fascinating to realize that that, you know, what we 215 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:52.159 automatically do and how we naturally plan is not how most people actually plan the 216 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.679 more complex things. It's how you get out of beds, how you get 217 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:58.039 dressed, it's how you cooked dinner. But when people then say, okay, 218 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:01.360 now I need to I need to, you know, be the production 219 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:05.320 manager for a movie, how do I plan? You know, how do 220 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.360 I plan budget and all this other stuff? And you know, anything anymore, 221 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.360 or even just your wedding or how about just a big party you want 222 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:16.120 to give or your next vacation, And most people, you know, either 223 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.960 don't then plan them at all, or they're sort of driven by whatever the 224 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.919 latest and loudest thing is as opposed to learning from ourselves in terms of how 225 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:28.240 the brain really naturally doesn't. It was fascinating to me just to uncover that. 226 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:33.600 Yeah. Right, So if somebody's you know, sitting there today, 227 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.799 you know, working towards a project. Let's say, for example, their 228 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:41.720 their ideas they want to produce a film. M but you know, when 229 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:46.879 it comes to screenwriting and when it comes to producing, um, you know, 230 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.480 something artistic or you know, films are basically like a little business anyway, 231 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:52.440 you know. I mean a lot of people don't think of it like 232 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:58.120 that. But so a person, we kind of get into this abyss where 233 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:00.519 you don't know what to do next, and you're starting out and you're kind 234 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.559 of like, Okay, I know this is the end goal, and I 235 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:07.600 know kind of where I'm at right now. How do I get you know, 236 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.440 from point A to point B to point Z, you know, and 237 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:15.440 not just like be completely overwhelmed all the time with I have ten million things 238 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:18.639 I have to do. Yeah, well with all of it externalizing it, 239 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:22.000 getting out of your head, you know, get yourself pen and paper, 240 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:25.000 just you know, pull up some computer files, pull up a word doc 241 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.360 and just dump it out. All the ideas, every single thing you might 242 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:30.279 need to think about or whatever about the film or about what your project. 243 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.519 I mean, that's that is part of the natural planning model is once you 244 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:38.759 have a vision and it's not that met by current reality, it creates this 245 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.279 dissonance that says, what God, I got to try to get I try 246 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:45.440 to got to close the gap between the vision I have in my head and 247 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.159 where I am right now. So there's you know, so you do a 248 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:52.679 part a of that, which is, okay, any potentially relevant idea I 249 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:55.440 need to capture, get out of my head. And that's what most people 250 00:16:55.480 --> 00:17:00.200 refer to as brainstorm. But that's and that's you know, that's the first 251 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.480 thing is don't you know, don't let your brain get constipated by you know, 252 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:06.440 oh I got a ten minute things to do. I don't know where 253 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.240 to start. Well, write down where you might start, all the places 254 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:11.720 you might start. You know, as line of said, the best way 255 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.440 to have a good idea to have a lot of ideas. So get them 256 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.759 all out now, you don't leave them all out just in terms of then 257 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:22.680 willy nilly, you get them all out, and then there's a part of 258 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.799 you that will then naturally start to recognize patterns and start to recognize components and 259 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.799 sequences and priorities. Oh that's more important than that. Oh yeah, I 260 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:30.880 need to handle that. You know, first thing I really need to do 261 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:36.119 is ye, and that's just good sort of natural thinking. But you have 262 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:37.920 to, you know, sort of go with the flow in terms of how 263 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.880 your mind really thinks and and capture that as opposed to it's got to be 264 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:48.240 right before I write it down. That's death. And that's how we were 265 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:49.720 taught. That's what planning was all about. If you if you know, 266 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:52.480 if you're old as I am, you we were taught outlining in school, 267 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.160 you know, to write reports and that's you know that you sit down and 268 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:02.279 start by trying to create an outline. Well, good luck that that forces 269 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:04.599 your mind to try to figure out what's Roman numeraber one. And you know, 270 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.559 there's quite a bit of thinking you have to do before you even can 271 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:12.240 trust what you think Roman umera one's going to be. And so giving yourself 272 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:17.039 permission to have the freedom to be to use the creative aspect of who you 273 00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:19.240 are and how your brain works. I think that's you know, it's our 274 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:25.880 educational system that that sort of constipated all that. But there there is a 275 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:27.559 way you can really make all that work, you know, I mean, 276 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:30.319 you know, come other. You know, some of my biggest champions were 277 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:36.440 the Simpson writers. Yeah, and really Joss Whedon and I can talk about 278 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:40.200 him because they mentioned it publicly. I mean, Jos in a fast company. 279 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:41.279 The article said, look, you know when he when he did the 280 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:45.359 last you know, when he shot much ado about nothing in his backyard, 281 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.480 he said, wow, you know, if it wasn't for David Allen's Next 282 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.839 Action concept, I never could have done that. In the three days we 283 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:56.839 did it, you know. So you know, and you know Howard Stern's 284 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.400 a huge fan of mine, really changed changed his life. He would tell 285 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.000 you that he's spoken about it on you know, on the air for months 286 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.599 right once he once, you know, he sort of got coached with our 287 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.000 with our model is really freed up because of what it does is it frees 288 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.799 up space for these guys. That's that's what the creative people want. It 289 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:18.119 actually frees up space for anybody. But you know, and what you do 290 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.640 with that space is up to you. If you're a rock musician, you'll 291 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.599 use space to get more music. Ideas and to make sure you finished the 292 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.799 song instead of just start them. You know, if you if you're a 293 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:32.839 fifty five year old executive that's about to merge with another company, you'll use 294 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:37.480 space to be more strategic in your negotiations. And you're thinking about you know, 295 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.200 priorities, and if you're a writer or a screenwriter, or you know, 296 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.079 if you're an indie producer, what would you do with more space? 297 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.960 You know, there's a whole lot of things you could do with more space, 298 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:52.880 I would imagine, But the space is what you need. And you 299 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.200 know all GTD they getting things done, modeled in. But say, okay, 300 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.440 here's how you get space. We'll be right back after a word from 301 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:08.640 our sponsor and now back to the show. And you don't want to go 302 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:12.400 very far to know where to start. Just ask yourself what's on your mind? 303 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.240 You know, Jason, if I ask you, if you if you 304 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:19.640 weren't talking to me right now, what where would your mind go? What's 305 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:26.039 the most on your mind? Right? Yeah, whatever you answer is very 306 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:29.759 probably going to be something that's hung up, and you're the bottleneck. The 307 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:32.599 reason it's on your mind is because there's some decision about it. You haven't 308 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:36.559 made or you haven't parked the results of that thinking in some in someplace you 309 00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:41.000 trust, right, Yeah, I mean, I'm your The book is pretty 310 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.599 much for people like me. I think that, you know, I have 311 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.759 too many things going on in my head, and you know, it's it's 312 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:52.079 really helpful just to say, okay, you know I went through when you're 313 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.240 doing the Ted talk, you had the thing where you take notes and you 314 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.799 get all the things out of your head that you're that are kind of occupying 315 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:03.359 your time, and then taking that and figuring out, you know, what 316 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:07.680 exactly are you gonna you know, what are the next actions you're going to 317 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:11.759 take? And the really important thing for me was the concept of what can 318 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:17.640 you actually do right now? And what you're just sitting there worrying about unless 319 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:21.200 you can actually take action on it right now, there's no point in worrying 320 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:22.319 about it. You know, put it in, put it there, and 321 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:25.759 know that you have to do it. But don't sit there and like kind 322 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:29.319 of go you know, churn the wheels over and over thinking about that, 323 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.720 and focus on things you can do. Sure there are no problems, there 324 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:38.559 are only projects, so you'll only cause something a problem if you think something 325 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:41.480 ought to be fixed about it, you're just not willing to figure out or 326 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:48.279 take a risk to try to do that. Right, right, I mean, 327 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.039 so taking anything that's an issue or problem you need to decide, look 328 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:56.839 to your point, can you do something about this or not? Ninety percent 329 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:00.000 of the time you probably can and just haven't figured that out or you haven't 330 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.759 that down and force yourself to make that decision. Wait a minute, what 331 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:04.319 more information do I need? Wait a minute, who do I need to 332 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:07.599 talk to about this? What do I need to do to move the needle? 333 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.440 If I if I was going to pay you a million bucks just to 334 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.720 start making progress on that problem, that issue, that opportunity, where would 335 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:19.480 you go right now physically, and what would you do? And that kind 336 00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:22.720 of rigor, you know, to your point of that the next action thinking 337 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:26.920 is so powerful, it's so mundane and yet so you know, it's it's 338 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:32.839 the silver bullet usually. Now. One of the things that I really enjoyed 339 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:37.359 about the book is also the concept of tricks. And you know, some 340 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:41.079 people now would just would refer to that as hacks for you know, organizing. 341 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.160 Can you talk about a few of your favorite hacks or tricks for um 342 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:51.559 you know for implementing the GTD system in your life. One of the best 343 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.440 is the two minute rule. Anything you can finish once you decide the next 344 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:57.240 action, if you can actually take that action within two minutes, if you're 345 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:00.480 ever going to do that action, and I'll do it, then it'll take 346 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:03.039 you longer to actually stack at track it and look at it again than it 347 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:07.319 would be to finish it when it's in your face. If you just did 348 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:10.599 that around your house or your apartment or your flat or wherever you live. 349 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:14.920 If you just started to implement the two minute rule flashlight that needs a battery, 350 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:17.599 it would only take you two minutes to go get that battery and stick 351 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:19.240 it in there. You'd be amazed how much cleaner your house is going to 352 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:23.480 be. It would be if that's all you've got out of what I did 353 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:27.559 is two minute rule. You know that that's one of the most popular hacks 354 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:36.240 you know of that emerged out of all of this. But go ahead, 355 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:38.799 sorry, yeah, you know, it's not really a hack. It's just 356 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:42.960 a it's an absolutely necessary principle, which is just right stuff down, have 357 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:47.480 an in maask and have a physical intro throw stuff in there, and then 358 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:49.920 get it empty every you know, twenty four to forty eight hours. I 359 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:53.720 mean that there's there's no bigger, better habit. People say, David, 360 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:59.640 what rituals and habits that I installed? That's the main one. You know. 361 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:02.839 There's all kinds of stuff I hate to have to think about and have 362 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:04.960 to decide about it. But because I'm so now addicted to getting my in 363 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:10.839 basket empty, it forces me to make those decisions so I can empty it. 364 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:11.960 It's one of the best that's one of the best tricks in the world 365 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:17.759 in terms of being productive, because people just avoid next action decisions about all 366 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:19.319 kinds of things, so they just spread stuff around in their life and then 367 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:25.039 and then it starts to create this ambient stress because it's yelling at them all 368 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:30.359 the time. Let the just numb out to it. Now, Can you 369 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:34.880 just go a little bit more in depth with the next action concept just for 370 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:37.680 just second. Yeah, well, you know, write everything down this on 371 00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:41.559 your mind, right, then take each one of those things one at a 372 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:44.440 time, and go, Okay, if this is something to move on at 373 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.200 all. It may have been just a hair brained idea or something else, 374 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:52.759 but is there something to do about this? What specifically physically visible action would 375 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:59.920 would I need to take to start moving toward closure on whatever this thing is? 376 00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:02.799 If it's if you wrote down cat food, what's your next action? 377 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:06.720 I need to buy cat food or great? Do you know where to buy 378 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:10.599 it? Yeah? I do? Uh? Where do you do you keep 379 00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:12.279 a list of stuff to buy when you go there? Yeah? Right up 380 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:17.480 on the fridge? Great, go stick it there, cat food on the 381 00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:19.720 post, It on the refrigerator. Now you're in. Then it's off your 382 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:22.039 mind. Some part you says, okay, who did that? But you 383 00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:25.720 have to decide what's the next step on that? Be gay? Okay? 384 00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:30.000 New indie movie idea? Fabuleus? What's the next action? Oh? God? 385 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:36.400 Yeah? Well I'm even not sure how to start? How would you 386 00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:40.359 figure it out? You know? I want to talk to somebody who actually 387 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:41.799 produced it? Indie failing. I've never done one before, and I should 388 00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:44.839 talk to them. Great? How would you? How would you, you 389 00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:48.160 know, plumb their brain? Maybe you should have lunch for them? Great? 390 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:52.200 What's your next action? Set up a lunch? How would you do 391 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.759 that? Got an email to send their phone call to make let me let 392 00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:57.960 me shoot them an email? Great? How long would that take? Thirty? 393 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:03.279 Seconds go, Suddenly you know, suddenly you're off and running, but 394 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.039 you still haven't the foggiest idea how to do an idio. You just made 395 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.480 a decision that it got you in the driver's seat of this situation as opposed 396 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:15.200 to feeling the victim of now over committing and having to beat you up. 397 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.759 Yeah, and it's so simple, but it actually, I mean, it 398 00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:22.160 does completely change everything. You know, if you start thinking like that, 399 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:27.559 I call it the magic of the mundane. Do you you actually have a 400 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:30.480 Do you have to have a physical in I mean, you talk about your 401 00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:33.240 in basket, and you know, everything that I do, if I have 402 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:37.279 papers, it just becomes out of control here. You know, I do 403 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:41.359 everything virtual, but you think it's it's better to have your physical there. 404 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.400 You don't. You still have a physical driver's license, You still you still 405 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.599 get some bills in the mail. You certainly get certain some physical mail. 406 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.279 You get FedEx's don't. No, Well, I'm an expat like you, 407 00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:56.960 I live in h I live in Mexico, so you know, we don't 408 00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:00.559 get mail where I live, but I get your points. Yeah, but 409 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:03.759 you know, believe it or not, there's a lot of stuff that I 410 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.319 need to print out from my computer and throw it into my inbasket because there's 411 00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.519 stuff that I need to do or think about that and I want to I 412 00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:14.119 want to have a written, you know, thing to that helps me think 413 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.599 about it, you know. Uh, Or I'm halfway through something and I 414 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:22.440 need to remind myself that that's not finished yet and I need to come back 415 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:25.720 to it. I'll print it out and throw it in my inbasket, which 416 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:27.279 then is a trigger to then Oh yeah, no, let me pick that 417 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:33.240 up and and and keep going with that. Uh. There's certainly a lot 418 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:36.240 less paper now than there was, you know, twenty thirty years ago, 419 00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:40.920 for sure, But even even so, uh, you know, where do 420 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.960 you throw back? You get flashlights that get dead, batteries, you know, 421 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.440 I throw those in my inbasket if I don't have the batteries, you 422 00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:52.359 know, you in anything. And if you take any kind of notes when 423 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.400 you're on the run, what do you do with if you're doing any kind 424 00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:57.359 of creative writing by hand? You know, what do you do with those 425 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:03.559 notes? And if you're taking notes on a phone call? Right, do 426 00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:07.480 you ever do that? Yeah? Yeah, what do you do with those 427 00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:10.880 notes? Uh? Well? I just usually I just use ever notes, 428 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:12.599 so I'm just I type faster than I write. But I've also got a 429 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:17.720 you know, a notebook. Whenever I go to a store, I just 430 00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:19.880 buy like five or six notebooks and just have just have it there, you 431 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:23.319 know, because you'll you'll be able to jot stuff down. Well. You 432 00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:26.079 know, if I were to sit down next to you desk side, you 433 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:30.039 know, uh, Jason, and I'd say, I'd say, do you 434 00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.640 still have any of those notebooks? Probably not, Well, that's fine. 435 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:37.759 It means you've processed them. That'd be my point if you still had them 436 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.039 lying around, because they were still stuff in there that you hadn't decided what 437 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.920 it meant, and it was still potentially pulling on you make a decision about 438 00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:49.000 it. You know. That's that's unhealthy. You know. Spial notebooks are 439 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.799 dangerous, you know, because I use a spile notebook, but I use 440 00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.240 one that's PERF so you can so I tear it off so it stays empty. 441 00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.000 Yeah, you know, but but the stuff like tear off goes into 442 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.079 my inbasket if it's if it's if I can't finish it at that moment, 443 00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:07.359 so I still need a physical inbasket. If you can get by without one 444 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:11.880 thing. There's no there's no right or wrong about any of that just says, 445 00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:15.640 okay, got anything in your head? You know? And if you 446 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:22.599 do, there's some because of some something you have not captured somewhere. Now, 447 00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:26.039 when you say you've got it in your head, I mean like subconscious 448 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:33.119 thought. I was wondering how you feel about like a subconscious thought. We'll 449 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:40.000 be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the 450 00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:45.039 show. How is that affecting you? I mean, are you are the 451 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:47.400 things that are in your head? Like you know, if you've got like 452 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:52.519 twenty things that you're kind of like organizing trying to keep track of. Are 453 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.079 you conscious that you're doing that or is that something that you're just kind of 454 00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:00.920 doing and it's affecting you know, just your men till you know alertness or 455 00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:07.240 being able to be present. I'm not sure exactly. Obviously, if it's 456 00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:10.720 unconscious, you're not conscious of it, I'm not aware, right, So, 457 00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:17.799 but essentially what I do, because I've externalized all of these commitments, 458 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:21.920 then it frees me up to just trust my intuitive judgments, and that intuitive 459 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.799 judgment is being matured and constantly I'm thinking all the time, I'm constantly reassessing 460 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.640 what should I do? Where's the thing? Where? What do I feel? 461 00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.400 You know, like I need to put my energy and focus right now? 462 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:36.680 You know that my system doesn't get rid of that. It frees you 463 00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:40.359 up to do that frees you up to be making good, intuitive choices instead 464 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:44.480 of just being driven by the latest and loudest and then loops and and hoping. 465 00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:45.880 You know, so you want to move from hope to trust basically in 466 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.240 terms of just your judgment about what you're doing. But I'm you know, 467 00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:53.039 I'm constantly thinking what should I do now? Where's the you know, where's 468 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:56.359 the optimal place for me? Should I take a napution to have the peers? 469 00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:59.279 Should I should I go hang out with my dog? Do I need 470 00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:00.640 to take a walk? You know? Should I be you know, cranking 471 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:04.480 on this you know, uh slide deck that I need to upgrade right now? 472 00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:11.640 So, I don't know if it's your unconscious I think that I think 473 00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:12.960 you don't have to go very far just to start to pay attention to what 474 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:17.200 has your attention, you know, and what do you then need to do 475 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.319 to take that pressure off your head? You know, what's the next thing? 476 00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.680 That that should be telling you what to do, whether that's coming where 477 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:27.640 that comes from, you know, the oracle or God or or your your 478 00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:33.240 liver or I don't know whatever, the source of your intuitive knowing is right, 479 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:37.240 you know who knows. So this is not about, you know, 480 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:38.720 sort of structuring your life in some ways. A matter of fact, a 481 00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:45.559 lot of people are uncomfortable with how unstructured getting things done is because they want 482 00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:48.000 to feel more confidence that they that they really nailed it all down and and 483 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.599 and and and can tack it all down and nothing's going to move, you 484 00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:56.680 know, and come out from under them. Good luck. Well that that 485 00:31:56.720 --> 00:31:57.839 was what I was going to ask you about. You know that that you 486 00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:02.079 talk about the false and of control that you get from you know, having 487 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:07.240 everything in your head, and there is that aspect of control that I mean, 488 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.319 I oh, yeah, that's encounter that resistance that people are just like, 489 00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:13.920 oh, I don't want to you know, I don't want to stop 490 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:15.319 having all this and I don't want to put it on a piece of paper 491 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:20.000 because that might mean that something might happen to it, or it might you 492 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.039 know, yeah, you'll might happen. Yeah, you'll make you feel more 493 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:30.519 out of control about how out of control you really are. But people get 494 00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:34.079 mad at me for their list. I go, excuse me any my list, 495 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.039 dude? And you orders, you know, your choices. Where do 496 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:39.839 you want to track that stuff? And I just and I'm not in convincing 497 00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:44.680 anybody. I'm just look, I'm just sharing information with you, right, 498 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:50.519 and prove me wrong. Implement these processes, and I absolutely guarantee you, 499 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.640 without fail, you'll feel more in control and more focused so that you can 500 00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:58.880 deal with and have more mental and cognitive space to do the more meaningful things. 501 00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:02.079 How did how did you build? How did you come upon this? 502 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:05.599 I mean when you were in your life, were you also kind of just 503 00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:09.400 like one of the people that was overwhelmed with stuff and had to I mean, 504 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:13.960 how did you discover this system? I've just been a you know, 505 00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.319 I'm a freedom guy and I love it and I love clear space, right. 506 00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:22.119 You know, I've always been attracted to the zen aesthetic, you know, 507 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:23.559 sort of the negative space. You know, I was I read all 508 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.960 of Suzuki and Watts by the time I finished high school. So I've always 509 00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:32.960 loved that that kind of minimalist aesthetic. But then, you know, when 510 00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:37.119 I got into sort of the personal growth game, and you know, how 511 00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.480 do you grow yourselves and how do you find enlightenment and all that good stuff? 512 00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:45.119 You know, missus California in six season seventies and discovered that actually there 513 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:49.079 there are things you can actually learn to do that actually give you more of 514 00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:52.359 a sense of personal freedom and more of a sense of space. And a 515 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:54.000 whole lot of that had to do with your agreements. You know, that 516 00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:58.640 was a big aha and the Personal Growth livement, which was you know, 517 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.440 how do you manage your agreement? And what's the price you pay if you 518 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:06.119 break an agreement? Now, what do you mean by agreement? Well, 519 00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:08.480 if you stick yeah, said, compromises you make. Yeah, No, 520 00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:13.360 the agreements you make, Hey David, let's meet at you know, let's 521 00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:17.079 do this podcast on you know, this date at this time. That's an 522 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:20.639 agreement. And I say, yeah, I just made an agreement. So 523 00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:23.599 an agreement just says any commitment you've got to do something whether and all agreements 524 00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:27.559 are with yourself. Many of them involve other people, but they're all with 525 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.119 yourself. You've agreed with yourself, you're going to do that. You tell 526 00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:32.960 yourself, I need cap food. It's made an agreement. You know, 527 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:37.039 oh yeah, I just agreed with myself, but yes, I'm going to 528 00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:40.920 get captured somehow, in some way. So understanding that when you keep an 529 00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:45.480 agreement feels fabulous improves your self confidence. If you break an agreement, it 530 00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:50.239 will undermine your self confidence automatically. It's an automatic price you pay. You 531 00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:53.480 just sent a great trust if you didn't show up. You know, if 532 00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:57.199 you know the people I love dearly, but I don't trust further than I 533 00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:00.760 can throw them top to show up when they going to tell me they're going 534 00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:04.480 to show up, just based upon that there's nothing wrong. I don't judge 535 00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:07.280 that. I just that's just data. But I don't trust them. I 536 00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:09.239 don't trust them to keep to you know, they tell me something, I 537 00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:14.719 doubt that they're going to do it, and shouldn't organize my life accordingly. 538 00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:19.960 But they're all of these agreements with yourself. What happens then if you a 539 00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:23.920 broken agreement automatically create stress. So all those things you've told yourself to do, 540 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:28.039 and most people have between thirty and one hundred projects and between one hundred 541 00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:30.000 and fifty and two hundred next actions, if they actually sat down and truly 542 00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:36.039 inventory their commitments personally and professionally involved the things they think they should do and 543 00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:40.280 told themselves they need to do. So if you want to get rid of 544 00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:44.519 the stress of broken agreements, either don't make the agreement, you know, 545 00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.559 throw the list away, let's say, you know, I'll live spontaneously, 546 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:52.280 you know, good luck. Or complete the agreement, go finish it all. 547 00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:55.559 Of course, if they wouldn't finished everything on your list to three days, 548 00:35:55.599 --> 00:35:59.320 you'd have a bigger list because you get so excited having done all that, 549 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.599 you'll take on bigger, more incomplete stuff. But the real key is 550 00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:07.079 how do I then I renegotiate those agreements. See if you said, hey, 551 00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:09.000 David, let's do this podcast here, and then I came back and 552 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:12.920 said, you know, I agreed to that before, but something came up 553 00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:15.039 really really critical and I have to handle. Can we do it another time? 554 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:17.679 And you go, yeah, then I renegotiated the agreement. I don't 555 00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:22.679 have a broken agreement. But you can't renegotiate agreements with yourself. You can't 556 00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:28.239 remember you made That's again why keeping track of all of this stuff so that 557 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.360 you can look at it and go, no, I'm just going to do 558 00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:32.199 this podcast with Jason right now, that's the best thing to be doing. 559 00:36:32.599 --> 00:36:37.079 But the only reason I can be present talking to you right now is because 560 00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:39.320 not long ago I looked at everything else that I might would, good, 561 00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:43.519 should ought to do and said, you're in. But I couldn't. I 562 00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:45.880 can't do that in my head. You know, I could remember about four 563 00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:51.280 things and that's about it. Everything else that becomes this huge jumble and jungle. 564 00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:54.360 But once I've got them out and have all these decisions made about the 565 00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:57.800 actions and just all I have to do just glance at those action lists, 566 00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:01.199 to look at my calendar, doesn't think very long, and just feel comfortable 567 00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:05.400 that this is it nothing. I'm not missing anything. Now. I may 568 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:07.440 have made a mistake, you know, maybe talking to use the wrong thing 569 00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:12.840 to do. I'll find out, live and learn, But at least I'm 570 00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:16.800 confident that this is the next mistake I want to make. That makes me 571 00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:21.599 yeah, definitely. Um. Now, you mentioned Howard Stern, and I 572 00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:28.440 know Howard Stern's really big into transcendental meditation, and a lot of this seems 573 00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:34.360 to be influenced by Eastern thought. Is that something Eastern Thought just came up 574 00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:39.440 with the same thoughts I did. They all read your book, you know, 575 00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:46.880 but I mean just the concept of you know, meditating and emptying your 576 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:52.039 mind in that way and being present. And you even mentioned in your book 577 00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:55.000 the mind like water um concept. Yeah, well, you know that was 578 00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:58.920 I had, you know, several years in the martial arts. You know, 579 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:01.400 I got a black belt many years ago in in karate, and there's 580 00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:05.760 there's quite a bit of training about how do you clear your head in the 581 00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:08.360 martial arts. You know that Bruce Lee was a guy who sort of made 582 00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:15.440 famous the whole idea of be like water Grasshopper from his gurup. Because you 583 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:19.800 know, the idea is don't over underreact, to be totally open to the 584 00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:22.239 to the to the present moment. You know, be soft and hard as 585 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:27.480 needed be don't over underreact. And that's that's the idea, is that you 586 00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:29.559 don't want to take one meeting into the next. You don't want to take 587 00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:31.360 home to work. You want to be able to be present. Really, 588 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:37.719 the whole idea of GPD is about being present. That's your optimal productive state. 589 00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:39.599 Whether that's the best way to hit a golf ball or tuck your kids 590 00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:44.159 into bed at night, or make spaghetti. You know, you just want 591 00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:49.000 to be there when you're doing it, as opposed to having your cognitive functions 592 00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.519 split. So that's in a way, this is just a mechanical process. 593 00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:59.360 It's not something to believe, it's not something that It's not some cult there. 594 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:04.239 Look, the brain sciences have now validated all of this. You know. 595 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:07.440 I took me thirty five years and learning it on the street and watching 596 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:12.760 spending thousands of hours with some of the best and brightest and sharpest people on 597 00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:15.480 the planet, busiest, and watching what happened when they started to implement this 598 00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:21.440 and how much it changed their life and their work without exception. So that's 599 00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:22.280 why I wrote the book, I said, I guess I've been to write 600 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:28.960 Nanuel. Now, Now, what were the Are there any books you can 601 00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:31.119 aside from your own book? Are there any books that were out there that 602 00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:36.880 influenced you and you could recommend as well, or any resources out there that 603 00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:38.400 people could look. Look, there were there were a lot of them over 604 00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:42.159 the years. I'd you know, one great book, by the way, 605 00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:49.639 for especially for creative types, would be Stephen Pressfield's book The War of Art. 606 00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:53.079 Oh yeah, yeah, that's a great one, fabulous book. We'll 607 00:39:53.119 --> 00:40:00.320 be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. 608 00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:07.119 And that's one and the two I mentioned by the way, if anybody's 609 00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:12.239 interested in the cognitive science stuff, I mean, it really is quite fascinating. 610 00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:15.719 And two have shown up in the last few months. One's called The 611 00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:22.199 Organized Mine by Dan Leaviton l E v I t I N. He's head 612 00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:30.440 of cognitive science research at McGill University and come back or where where we're in 613 00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:38.360 Canada is And a Belgian named Theo compernalem p e r n O L l 614 00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:44.880 E has just written a book called brain Chains. Two words like chains around 615 00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:51.559 your brain, brain chains, and you know, he he he was a 616 00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:54.280 child psychiatrist and then an MD, and then I got into cognitive science. 617 00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:59.239 And now he's been he's doing quite a bit of executive coaching in terms of 618 00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:06.559 stress management, simply because he became fascinated with this whole idea of the brain 619 00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:13.039 as a tool. And he's he's accumulated aggregated six hundred different studies from the 620 00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:17.320 cognitive science field and world in the last decade or so. And you know, 621 00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:22.800 and it kind of reads the Riot Act to everybody about multitasking and what 622 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:27.800 the digital world and social media and so forth, or are the addiction that 623 00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:31.239 that's making so easy for people to get invested in and engaged in, that's 624 00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:36.039 then stopping a lot of other, you know, real cool stuff, like 625 00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:40.639 real conversations and real relationships. And he's got he's not against technology. He's 626 00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:45.280 just saying be careful because this is highly addictive and that they've now proven it 627 00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:50.559 truly is an addiction that if you if your social media, even just having 628 00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:55.719 your smartphone in your pocket wondering who's texting you creates a dopamine rush. So 629 00:41:55.880 --> 00:42:00.440 you literally are getting the same kinds of things that you do an opium or 630 00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:07.079 heroine. Well, it seems like, you know, the older I get, 631 00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:09.760 the more I realized that my life is determined by the little things that 632 00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:15.159 give me a little dopamine rush, you know, like the career that you 633 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:17.960 choose and the people that you are around, and all the little thing you 634 00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:22.000 know, even the color of paint that you choose in your house or whatever. 635 00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:27.119 It's like everything is determined by that little rush you get from it. 636 00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:29.880 There's nothing wrong with that. I mean that exercise does that. So you 637 00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:37.239 can't fault exercise which is which which are the healthier dopamine rushes. You know, 638 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:38.480 what do you want to get addicted to? You want to get addicted 639 00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:42.920 to working out, or you want to get addicted to you know, uh, 640 00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:49.480 you know amphetamines, right. I also like the idea of you know, 641 00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.840 you were talking about how you you want to write stuff down because your 642 00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:57.440 future self is not going to be in the same state of mind that you're 643 00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:01.239 in and and always, you know, you always need to be somewhat um 644 00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:07.599 aware of you know, how your brain changes from maybe one time of day 645 00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:10.239 to another time of day, or how you're in a certain kind of state 646 00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:15.039 of mind where you're being very creative and coming up with ideas and appreciate the 647 00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:17.679 fact that maybe later on in the day or maybe whenever, that's going to 648 00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:22.320 kind of disappear, and you're leaving kind of like future notes. You're like 649 00:43:22.519 --> 00:43:23.639 note to future self, you know. Because it's funny. I had a 650 00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:28.159 friend who would go out and drink a lot, and he would always leave 651 00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:30.559 himself voice messages and he would wake up the next day and be like, 652 00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:34.639 Okay, what you know, what's going on? And he'd be like, 653 00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:40.079 dear future Mike, you know, this is what's happening today. Welcome on 654 00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:45.280 your You know, I think it's the really intelligent people that realize they're only 655 00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:51.519 inspired and intellig and and and you're only inspired and brilliant, you know, 656 00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:54.719 at very random moments in your life. And you know, so what you 657 00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:58.199 want to do is, if you're lazy and smart, what you want to 658 00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:02.360 do is capture those potentially useful, inspirational, intelligent things so that when you're 659 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:07.440 kind of thick and dumb, you do smart things, right, So you 660 00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:09.360 know, Yeah, it's the it's the kind of thick and dumb people that 661 00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:15.920 think they're smart all the time. Yeah. I think the strange thing is 662 00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:20.559 is that when you are inspired and have an inspired thought that that place, 663 00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:22.960 that that that we seem to operate from there has no sense of space and 664 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:28.079 time. You're in your zone, So it doesn't it's not kind of that 665 00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:32.440 consciousness is not so aware of history or future. It thinks it thinks you'll 666 00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:38.280 be inspired and smart all the time. So it's it isn't was intelligent of 667 00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:44.480 your friend to realize, hey, when I'm inspired, that the future me 668 00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:47.360 may not be so inspired, So I better grab that and throw it at 669 00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:52.119 them. Yeah, I'm always surprised if I go back and look at my 670 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:53.960 note. Sometimes I came up with, like, you know, I write 671 00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:58.079 every day. I write in the morning and that's like when I'm focused, 672 00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:00.760 coffee's going and everything, and I always shock, you know. I go 673 00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:04.440 back sometimes and I'm like, yeah, I remember everything that I wrote down, 674 00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:07.280 and I'll go back and see those notes and it's like, oh, 675 00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:08.800 wow, that was a really great idea. But I just, you know, 676 00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:13.320 for whatever reason, it wasn't there anymore, you know, the my 677 00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:19.280 ability to recall it just had gone away. So can I want to wrap 678 00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:21.480 it up? Because I know you you know, have things to do. 679 00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:27.559 Can you just talking to people who are out there in our audience it's filmmakers 680 00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:30.760 and screenwriters and people who are working on projects, Can you you know, 681 00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:35.760 what do you think is a good idea for them to start doing? What 682 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:39.719 can they do today? To really start moving forward and not being frustrated and 683 00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:44.679 getting their projects, you know, on the road to being you know, 684 00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:50.599 completed. Welcome on. I would be remiss and not saying get my new 685 00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:54.000 version of getting things go bo and read it if you haven't. Yeah, 686 00:45:55.280 --> 00:46:00.239 I mean truly, it is the manual for all of that and it will 687 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:04.000 be pretty evergreen for lots of years to come in terms of you know, 688 00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:07.920 what we've uncovered and what we've discovered about it. So that's that's essentially a 689 00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:12.000 you know, a great resource. That's that is a way. That is 690 00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:15.079 a way to start. But quite frankly, it just make sure you've got 691 00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:17.559 some you know, take up. You might want to take a few hours 692 00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:22.199 at some point if you can carve that out of your life and say, 693 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:24.559 okay, I'm going to do this dumb thing called sit down and write down 694 00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:29.719 every single thing that's on my mind, you know, anything about anything, 695 00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:32.000 you know, little things, big things, personally think, professional things, 696 00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:36.920 creative things, anything, and truly keep going. You know, most people 697 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:39.079 can do that in about an hour or two at least you can get most 698 00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:45.559 of it, and then you know, go through each one of those and 699 00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:49.119 say, okay, what is exactly my next action on this? What's my 700 00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:52.800 next action on that? What's my next action on that? So just capturing 701 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:58.559 and then applying the sort of next action cognitive rigor to these things, and 702 00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:00.320 then you're gonna have to then you'll have to get creative to decide what do 703 00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:02.599 I want to do if I can't take that action right now. Where do 704 00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:05.599 I want to park it? How do I create a list? How do 705 00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:07.559 I create you know, some sort of organizational system. If you don't have 706 00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:13.360 one already, you need to then go through that process. So ideally, 707 00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:15.679 you you know, set up a whole day and get my book, because 708 00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:21.480 I actually walk people through this exercise, you know, blow by blow part 709 00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:24.400 in part two of the book. That's one of the reasons I wrote it 710 00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:28.400 that way, so that people didn't have to hire a coach to walk them 711 00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:31.840 through this. But you're not born doing this and it doesn't come, you 712 00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:36.119 know, automatically. You actually have to sit down and put cognitive horse power 713 00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:38.480 to this game. And it does take an investment on the front end. 714 00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:42.760 It doesn't take a lot of time and energy to maintain it. As a 715 00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.039 matter of fact, it takes much less than what most people are trying to 716 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:47.320 do once you actually get this set up, but it does take an investment 717 00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:51.960 on the front end. Well, David, I really appreciate it. Thank 718 00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:54.679 you so much for coming on the show. It's it's a pleasure to have 719 00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:58.320 you here with us today. Hey, it was fun, Jason, this 720 00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:01.400 is great. I want to thank Jason so much for doing such a great 721 00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:05.440 job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke 722 00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:08.000 about in this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot 723 00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:12.519 tv. Forward slash three fourteen. Thank you so much for listening, guys, 724 00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:15.920 As always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you 725 00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:21.880 soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.