WEBVTT

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Big food and be on with Cliff
and Bobo. These guys a favorites,

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so let say subscribe and raid it
five star Mesh today listening watching, please

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keep it splatching and now your hosts, Cliff Berkman and James Bobo Fay.

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Thanks to mind Bloom for supporting our
podcast. It's time to enter the next

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chapter in mental health and well being. Let mind Bloom guide you. Mind

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Bloom is offering our listeners one hundred
dollars off your first sixth session program when

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Bigfoot at checkout. Be sure to
type the promo code Bigfoot with all lowercase

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letters. Hey, Bobo, this
is a special episode number two hundred Yeah

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big two. Oh yeah, that's
that's not bad. It's not bad.

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Time flies and at the same time
it kind of drags on. So um,

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it's kind of a little bit of
both here. But we have a

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really cool program today. But before
we start that, Bobs, you have

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anything you want to share at the
audience, Anything cool going on, anything

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squatchy in your environment? Um,
possibly, I'm gonna find out here pretty

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quick. Either you can talk about
or should we wait. I'm just gonna

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wait until it's for sure. Probably
a wise move. I am going up

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on the I think I told him
going on that looking for those big foot

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graves and Alaska has some natives.
Yeah, you did mention it has Has

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that ball been moved down court at
all? Yeah, we're gonna interview doctor

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Meldon. He confirmed for that.
Okay, very good. So that's forward

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movement. Uh huh, I would
say so very good. When is that?

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What month? Next month? Next
month? March? All right,

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we have to schedule some podcasts around
that. Oh no, we don't have

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seen interview with Jeff. We don't
go up there until August. Oh August.

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Gosh, yes, from time Alaska's
August or Jeff's interviews in March.

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I see, well, cool,
cool, So your film projects are being

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moved forward? Excellent. Yeah,
not much happening here. Snow kind of

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shut me out of the area,
so I haven't been up into the spot.

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Although another guy got up there right
before the snow happened, and he

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pulled another footprint. Really yeah,
and it was a smaller of the two

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individuals, which is kind of cool. That's way cool. Waiting for the

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snow to melt so I can get
back up there. We had this big

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flurry and it's gonna be a cold
week apparently, but when the snow melts,

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I will be up there once or
twice a week, and I imagine

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most of the NABC guys will be
as well. It's kind of an interesting

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area. Anyway, enough about that, we have something way cooler going on

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today. We have brought back doctor
Jeff Meldrum for our two hundredth episode.

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He was our guest on our one
hundredth episode, so we figured every one

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hundred episodes we can subject doctor Meldrum
to Cliff and Bobo for an hour or

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so. So, Jeff, thank
you very very much for coming back for

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our second hundredth episode, our two
hundredth episode. We really appreciate your time.

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Oh, I'm honored, privileged.
Yeah, thank you very much for

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the invitation. Hey, Jeff cool
Well, Um, you know, I've

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got a whole list of questions and
things we can talk about, and if

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there's anything you want to talk about, of course we want you to jump

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into. But um, you know, you've become the scientific figurehead in a

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lot of ways, in the same
way that doctor Krantz was for so long,

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and you know doctor Krantz, of
course, but he was wasn't he

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as an osteologist, wasn't his specialty
bones. He was a classic physical anthropologist,

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and so it that that included a
number of disciplines that he published in

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regularly. He was a paleoanthropologist,
so he worked with the both the discovery

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of and identification and analysis of fossil
hominin bones, skeletal remains, and so

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also as a classical physical anthropologist,
I'm sure he did teach the human Osteology

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course, which is an in depth
treatment of the skeletal system of the human

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species and for both evolutionary but also
archaeological objectives. He was also very talented

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anatomist and applied that talent to forensic
reconstructions of crania from partial remains. So

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his Gigantopithecis skull as an example of
that. He also did, you know,

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the only kind of working model of
what meganthropists might have looked like based

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on its very large and robust mandible
remains. So based on the correlation of

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form and function, he could take
a few bits and estimate what the remainder

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of the skull may have looked like
um, and I think he, you

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know, exhibited some real talent and
insight in that respect. So he was

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he was kind of a renaissance man
in many ways. Yeah, almost like

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a generalist in a way. It
sounds like the reason I thought he was

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an osteologist is because several of the
people I've met of my own age group

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who took classes from him apparently all
took osteology classes. Sure, that's a

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pretty standard fair in an in an
anthropological curriculum. Yeah yeah, Now,

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um, you brought up meganthropists,
of course, and I want to touch

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base on that in a little while. But now I contrast that with your

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own field of study, because you
know, doctor Krantz really laid a foundation

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for all scientists who are going to
come after him. And right now you're

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standing on that shoulder, on those
set of shoulders. But you've been able

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to been able to expand on what
doctor Krantz did because of your own specified

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study area. So how do you
differ exactly? Well, I came at

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physical anthropology from a slightly different perspective. At the time I entered into graduate

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school, there was rather a glut
of anthropologists and or at least, maybe

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a better way to say it was
a dearth of openings for employment and at

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in academic positions, and so one
an alternate pathway. Instead of the classical

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anthropological degree that included the disciplines the
subdisciplines of archaeology, socio cultural, linguistics,

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and physical I instead was a cohort
at an institution where physical anthropologists had

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been recruited into departments of anatomy at
medical schools to teach human grows anatomy in

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the health professions programs in medical physical
therapy school and so forth. And so

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my degree was actually in anatomical sciences, so rather than with an emphasis with

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an emphasis in physical anthropology, So
rather than having the classic four subdiscipline anthropological

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training, which would really better suit
me for employment in an anthropology department,

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I got this degree which then afforded
me the opportunity to teach human gross anatomy,

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regional gross anatomy at the graduate level
in medical schools. And they're,

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like I said, there were programs
like that that we're popping up in various

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places, and Sunny Stoneybrook was one, Duke was one where I did a

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post doc, and others Johns Hopkins, UCLA and other schools. But anyway,

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so it was a little different.
So I basically had the first two

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years of medical school elbow to elbow
with one hundred and twenty medical students.

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You know, I think there were
six of us in my cohort of anthropology

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students. And when then subsequently,
as those medical students would go into more

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and more clinical courses, we would
go into classes in evolutionary biology, in

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osteology, in comparative primate anatomy,
and so forth, and so more of

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the basic sciences that touched on anthropology
and ecology and evolution. And so it

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was a great experience. I mean, it was really it was a tough

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program though. I mean, of
the six, I think only two of

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us completed the program. Was it
around this time that you became interested in

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bipedalism and the anatomy of feet or
it sounds at some point or other you

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kind of zeroed in on those particular
aspects. You're right now, You're absolutely

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right, And in fact, that's
what what motivated me to go to this

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particular program. U. The faculty
there had published this seminal work called um

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the Locomotor Anatomy of Australopithicus afarensis that
was published in the American Journal of Physical

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Anthropology, and it was just a
quite exhaustive treatment of the skeletal remains attributed

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to this early bipedal hominin. And
it was that, you know, that

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that latent interest in bipedalism, which
was probably initially ceded by the interest in

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bigfoot, you know, another bipedal
primate, that that motivated me to pursue

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that. And you knows, as
you go along your opportunities across your path

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that that afford the chance to kind
of branch out a little bit and do

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some different things as well. And
so I'll mean along the way, for

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example, I got interested in locomotor
behavior in primates, both living and fossil,

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much more broadly than just human bipedalism. Actually, and I would note

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that it's a kind of a tight
not a closed shop, but it's a

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it's a narrow niche because of the
rarity of hominin fossils. So really,

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unless your professor was actually had access
to the to the fossil sites and was

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participating in the discovery of new material, you rarely had the chance to do

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any of the initial examination analysis and
so forth study of those fossils. So

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I had to kind of come at
bipedalism from from the side door, you

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know, through through the mudroom and
back to up the hallway. And so

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I was actually my doctoral dissertation was
on terrestrial adaptations in in monkeys, in

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African monkeys and looking at adaptations to
terrestrial quadrupedalism, and then I could compare

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and contrast that from you know,
from a more theoretical practical perspective with bipedalism,

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and it was it was actually a
very effective way because those features that

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were held in common were those that
were common to walking on the ground versus

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clamoring and climbing in the trees.
And then those that were distinctive between bipeds

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and quadrupeds were those features that were
unique to the adaptations were walking on two

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legs. So anyway, so along
away I dabbled in. I got interested

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in South American evolution because of again
the opportunity of working with my mentor in

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the field. And then on another
occasion, when I was doing a post

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docet to Duke, the opportunity to
dabble in some DNA sequencing and approaching the

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reconstruction of the phylogen your family tree
of in this case South American monkeys by

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way of looking at the genes in
living primates was another. I mean,

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that was a very different departure for
me, But one I wasn't going to

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say no to my mentor, and
two it was a great opportunity to learn

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a technique that, as it turns
out, I didn't end up pursuing that

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further, but it placed me in
a very good position to, from a

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more informed stance, be able to
evaluate the publications of the studies that others

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were doing in an area that it
was still of real interest to me.

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That was the evolution of South American
primates as an adaptive radiation. So you

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know, principles of evolutionary biology that
have been applicable to a variety of different

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species in different continents and so on. So it's all it's all good.

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So since you specialize somewhat in the
locomotor adaptations and primates in general, that

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would explain why maybe you picked up
the idea of the midfoot flexibility and Crants

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noticed it but didn't put the terms
on it per se, I think right

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well, And he didn't characterize the
features correctly, and that was you know,

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a bit of a misdirection unfortunately.
But if you look in his book

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Big Footprints are the evidence of Bigfoot's
asquats with it the renamed second edition,

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you know, there's a diagram in
there where he tries to account for that

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mid tarsal pressure ridge. Of course, he didn't recognize it as a mid

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tarsal pressure ridge. He recognized it
as a pressure ridge, but tried to

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explain it as you know, a
push off from the fore foot of a

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very flat a very flat foot.
But he did not eliminate the the existence

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of an arch entirely. And this
is why he had to hypothesize that the

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toes were very short. You know, our our toes have shortened remarkably by

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comparison to chimpanzees and guerrillas, and
even in comparison to the intermediate state,

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the intermediate lengths found in some early
bipetal hominins like the Australopithesenes, which still

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had rather long and somewhat curved petal
digits foot digits of their feet toes.

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Jeff, excuse me, uh,
what about those tribes that have never worn

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shoes and those guys are those big
and early you know, spread feet and

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toes. Yeah, they still have
have very healthy arches. Though toe length.

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You said that that toe length.
Sure, no, no, it's

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it's I mean it's they appear to
be a bit longer because they are a

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little more extended and splayed, perhaps, whereas our toes are so compressed from

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shoewear. And you know, typically
most modern shoewearing humans, their little toe

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is is curled on its side.
Now, thankfully, shoewear these days is

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is more sensible than it was even
fifty years ago. You know, the

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point he showed toe dress shoes and
so forth, very confining footwear. But

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and and even you know, cowboy
boots, there's a little bit of accommodation

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there because the boot that has a
pointed toe is usually a longer toe.

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I mean, it was a longer
toes so you could keep it in your

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stirrup, basically, was the strategy
nowadays that you know, these these fancy

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fashionable dress shoes have really long toes
and the pointed toes of the shoe,

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the pointed tips of which are extend
out beyond and so they don't you know,

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the toes aren't crushed into that little
clinical tip. But but nevertheless,

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no it You know, it was
interesting because when when the Victorian era physical

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anthropologists struck out to to study all
the various ethnic diversity that was out there,

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they thought that they would find these
poor, unshod native tribes would display

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very poor foot hygiene, foot conditions, that they would have fallen arches,

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that they would have all kinds of
ailments and of the joints and so forth,

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because they didn't have the benefit of
Western supportive footwear. And of course

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what they found was just the opposite. That the human foot responded very well,

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and the arches were healthy, and
they were high, the toes were

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splayed, the pads pointed down towards
the ground like they were supposed to.

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They were very much fewer foot ailments
amongst these these barefoot tribal peoples than there

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were amongst the Western Europeans. So
in any case, so Grober was his

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argument was that Sasquatch had even shorter
toes, which kind of fed into this

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image that was the result of the
Patterson Gimblin film site footprint casts that where

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the toes look kind of like peas
in the pod. This is why not

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to digress too far, but this
is why Renee to Hindon had such trouble

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with the tracks from these is because
these individuals had sometimes less soul pad extending

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up under the toes, as is
a variable trait in human populations as well,

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and so the toes, in Renee's
words, looked like sausages, and

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he used that as a very disparaging
description, these fake sausage toes. Nobody

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likes a sausage party, that's right, I guess a bunch of Vienna sausages.

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When Grover modeled the human or the
sasquatched foot, then he envisioned with

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even greater mass, there would be
more bending stresses on these toes as they

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walked and pushed off, and so
the toes would naturally be even shorter than

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in the human foot relative to foot
length. And that's because he was using

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the human foot model of pushing off
at the heads of the metatarsals and the

203
00:18:53.519 --> 00:19:00.119
toes as opposed to the entire four
part of the foot exactly exactly. And

204
00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.240
so when this first, you know, first, it kind of came to

205
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:07.960
mind as I was looking at some
of these blue mountain tracks which had fairly

206
00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:14.599
long toes and the footprints that I
examined at five points. I have drawn

207
00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:18.799
attention to that one example where the
toes have curled remarkably as they flexed,

208
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:23.359
gripping the mud as it slid,
with mud extruding up between the toes.

209
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.039
But you get the profile of the
first and second toe, and that little

210
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:33.119
toe on that fourteen and a half
inch ish foot is as long as my

211
00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:40.000
pinky finger. And that's pretty you
know, So imagine toes on that foot

212
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:44.920
that are as long as my fingers
on my hand, and combine that with

213
00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:49.160
you know, the musculature of the
lower extremity and something as big as as

214
00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:53.359
this creature probably was, and that's
a that's a powerful, grasping, prehensile

215
00:19:53.480 --> 00:20:00.400
foot. So so then the other
thing that that kind of got it going.

216
00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:07.039
There were two other things. One
was looking at the Bosborg cripple foot,

217
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:12.319
because you know, Grover had actually
attempted to do a skeletal reconstruction or

218
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:22.079
inferential reconstructure outlining on that diagram and
actually etching on the physical cast his interpretation

219
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:26.279
of the of the foot, and
he had the toes very short. And

220
00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:33.480
but as I looked at more details
of the flexion creases and so forth,

221
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:37.400
and where the joints would be based
on the contours of the outline of the

222
00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.880
foot. It didn't work. It
didn't work. You had to have a

223
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:49.799
toe that was much much longer.
And then that combined with those individuals,

224
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:56.799
particularly some of the examples on the
Blue Creek Mountain track way that had a

225
00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:03.559
very decided flexion crease across the ball
of the foot, this split ball that

226
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:10.160
has gotten various. I've actually got
this old diagram that was drawn by Ivan

227
00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:15.720
Sanderson where he tried to interpret the
and I should publish it as just a

228
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:23.839
short article because it's of such interesting
historical significance. I think as these investigators

229
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:32.319
tried to grapple with this, this
otherwise inexplicable anatomical characteristic. But I mean,

230
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:34.880
if you look at your own at
the palm of your hand you have,

231
00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:38.680
and you flex your fingers just a
little bit at the knuckle, you

232
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:45.160
see it throws up a crease across
the palm of your hand where the tissue

233
00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:53.279
of the palm extends beyond that joint
up under the proximal philangies the first bones

234
00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:59.279
in your fingers. Well. In
the Sasquatch tracks as well, as in

235
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:06.200
human footprints as well human feet.
There's evidence of that of an extension of

236
00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:14.799
that soul pad to varying degrees up
underneath that first bone. In some individuals

237
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:19.000
it goes almost up to that first
interphalangeal joint. Well, when those toes

238
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:27.559
flex, then they create a crease
right across the soul at the mid ball

239
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:34.119
at the heads of the metatarsals as
they join the digits where your knuckles the

240
00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:41.119
corresponding position of where your knuckles are
in your hand. So when the toes

241
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.039
flex, it throws up a crease
just like that. And in fact,

242
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.799
if you go and look at your
birth certificate, if you have an inked

243
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:51.880
footprint, you'll find that you,
like almost every human baby has that flexion

244
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:56.160
crease on its foot when they're born. But as the arch develops, as

245
00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:03.720
the infant starts to walk, that
soul pad fills out some more with more

246
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:10.880
connective tissue and less baby fat,
and you get an elaboration of the connective

247
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:15.039
tissue under the ball of the foot
at that metatarsal philangeal joint, and it

248
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:21.359
fills out, and so in most
people it pretty much disappears. Stay tuned

249
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:25.599
for more bigfoot and beyond with Cliff
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276
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:42.440
with all lowercase letters. God,
I was in a store or something.

277
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:45.519
I remember, I was standing next
to the sky or whatever, and I

278
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.480
think we exchanged a few words or
whatever, and I noticed that he had

279
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.039
a tattoo of these two feet on
his arms, and I looked at him,

280
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:53.559
go, well, those aren't human. Those are clearly said. I

281
00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:56.240
said, so you're into sasquatches,
and he goes, no, those are

282
00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:00.720
my infants. Those are my baby's
feet, and he wasn't. He wasn't

283
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:03.160
super happy with me, and he
didn't exchange many more words after that either.

284
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:10.519
So but to your point, though, and actually doctor Krantz made that

285
00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:12.640
same point in this book now that
i'm thinking of it, about the split

286
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:18.759
ball. No, No, about
specifically how infant human feet probably more strongly

287
00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:22.400
resemble sasquatch feet. Yes, yes, I think there. He was talking

288
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.680
about the proportions to particularly I'll have
to go back and look in a long

289
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.000
time since I've read that, And
every time I go back and reread,

290
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:36.720
I discover something else he said that
I've since forgotten. But David Ellis's baby

291
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:41.519
footprint. You authenticated that, right, Jeff Well, I would never claim

292
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:48.920
to authenticate, but I mean it. I'm impressed foremost by the huge heel.

293
00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:53.359
It's got an enormous heel and well
developed heel pad already, which is

294
00:26:55.039 --> 00:27:03.920
not typical of most human babies,
and so that seems quite interesting in itself.

295
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:07.519
So I think it's a really good
possibility. Yeah, that's a good

296
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:11.480
example. We have others in the
collection. I have some of the little

297
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:21.799
feet that Paul Freeman investigated that were
well. Now the provenience is a little

298
00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:26.119
unclear to me because I originally thought
that it was at the at De Duck

299
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:32.559
Springs and was found just just prior
to the shooting of that footage there.

300
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:37.319
But now I'm told to know it
was a different it was an earlier segment.

301
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.359
That's a different one. Yeah.
In fact, that that footage right

302
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.480
before the most common version of the
Freeman footage is out now that shows those

303
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:49.440
footprints in the ground that you're referring
to. Um, I've I believe I've

304
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:55.160
successfully identified those as those same juvenile
prints that you're speaking of that were cast

305
00:27:55.240 --> 00:28:00.119
on Gifford Peak. I believe it's
called m. Gifford Peak and there this

306
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.960
April. If I remember correctly,
by the shape of the casts in the

307
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.400
ground drawing, you know, with
the red I look at looking at the

308
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:11.400
copies that I have, you can
identify them as Oh, those are the

309
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.519
same individuals. Those are the actually
not that those are the same casts.

310
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:18.799
So that was actually from Difford Peak
the previous ninety two I think in April,

311
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:21.279
I remember correctly. Oh okay,
all right, Well that's good to

312
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:26.599
know because with all the you know, with all the discussion about the subject

313
00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:33.000
of the Freeman video scooping up an
infant and in the parting shots there,

314
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:38.400
I had often wondered if those were
the tracks of the infant that he had

315
00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:44.720
just taken note of prior to going
around to the other side of the of

316
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:48.119
the pond there, but definitely could
be. But the videos from a few

317
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:52.759
months earlier, so right, And
you're absolutely right. I mean that's when

318
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.839
I saw that video, unrealized that
they were that he had taken casts.

319
00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:00.640
That was the first thing idea as
it got the cast out in compared to

320
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:06.559
the video, And you're absolutely right, they are in fact from that sequence,

321
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:11.240
which is always nice to to establish, you know, to have documentation

322
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:17.680
of the footprints in the ground and
swell as the casts resulting casts. So

323
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.400
well, speaking of anatomy, thought, I thought we could go down a

324
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:26.200
couple other rabbit holes here. Let's
talk about handprints for a minute and sasquatch

325
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.519
handprints. Of course, you're different
than human. Sasquatch hands are different than

326
00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:33.799
humans in a lot of ways.
Shorter, stubbier looking fingers, because the

327
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:37.720
webbing is extended, the thumb is
in a different position. It doesn't flex

328
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:42.400
across the palm like ours. It
goes more directly into the ground. Because

329
00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:51.279
of these differences, what behavioral differences
can we infer? That's a great point

330
00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:59.880
because you know this often comes up
when people are suggesting that the sasquatcher extre

331
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.880
intelligent. You know, they must
be in order to avoid us. And

332
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:07.759
then of course there are others who
appeal to other types of experiences to suggest

333
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:15.160
that there's something else going on that
would indicate a higher level of mental ability,

334
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:21.359
if not human. But they're not
quote just ads. Well, you

335
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:23.599
know, let's since you open the
intelligence thing and we're gonna be talking about

336
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:29.000
the hands, let's also throw in
the cranium size and shape into this discussion

337
00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:32.480
so we can have a more well
rounded discussion about this, please, okay,

338
00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:45.079
Well, in that regard not being
privy to firsthand visual observations of sasquatch

339
00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:48.559
cranial proportions, you know, I
can't say a lot but I've come to

340
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:53.279
a point where I'm absolutely convinced about
the credibility of the Patterson Gimblin film,

341
00:30:53.880 --> 00:31:00.839
and as such, that is admittedly
a sample of one, but nevertheless it

342
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:06.559
is a sasquatch. And what can
we learn from looking at it? And

343
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:12.720
one of the things that's just blows
me away is when you take a robust

344
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:21.799
australopithesine like paranthropists paranthropist Boisei, which
existed in East Africa, oh, about

345
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:26.480
one point eight million to about eight
hundred thousand years ago in the known fossil

346
00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:32.359
record anyway, and it stood about
five to five and a half feet tall.

347
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:40.000
It was robust. When we say
robust australopithesianes, we're talking about their

348
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:47.920
facial cranial adaptations, these heavy jaws, extremely enlarged molars and premolars and reduced

349
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:52.240
canines for a more side freeing up
a side to side what they call the

350
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:59.119
phase two of the chewing cycle,
the grinding aspect, with very very thick

351
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:07.799
enamel and very puffy rounded cusps and
crests on the teeth, so indicating indicative

352
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:14.960
of a diet of very tough and
very hard items. Okay, so Anyway,

353
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:22.680
if you take the we have remarkably
complete examples of crania of this species,

354
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:27.440
and you take one of those and
just scale it to the same absolute

355
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:32.799
size as Patty and put it up
next to her bust, and sure enough,

356
00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:39.799
every single bony landmark from the top
of the head to the receding chin

357
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:46.400
on the jaw blinds up. Now, you know, that's that's no small

358
00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:54.319
point because the you know, the
facial proportions on this thing, this robust

359
00:32:54.400 --> 00:33:01.720
australopithecine, are really remarkable. They
are an extreme specialization and for this what

360
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:07.640
we call a dural fagius diet,
dural meaning as you might expect, like

361
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:13.920
from durable, a very tough,
unyielding diet. And so you know,

362
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:19.319
some some have compared these robust Australopithesianes
to quizzin arts. They can, you

363
00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:22.880
know, really grind up and handle
all kinds of food items. And so

364
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:30.759
it's it's an extreme um adaptation with
very deep jaws with very flaring angles to

365
00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:38.680
the to the mandible, a very
prominent cheekbones that that flare forward and wide

366
00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:44.720
to provide attachment for the chewing muscles
on the side. The massiter muscles,

367
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:51.200
that it even has a bit of
a crest on its skulled for increased attachment

368
00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:59.599
of the anterior fibers of the temporalis
muscle, which is the second of the

369
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:04.720
two large, very large principal chewing
muscles, the temporalis and the master.

370
00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:09.039
Anyway, so point for point,
I mean it's not just a queer coincidence.

371
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:17.880
I mean that correlation suggests that the
sasquatch has a similar type of diet

372
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:27.519
and has those same extreme craniofacial adaptations. Because the anatomy reflects behavior in some

373
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:30.239
way, I mean, yeah,
it has to, of course, Yeah,

374
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:34.320
of course it does. I mean
sometimes there are lags, sometimes there

375
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:38.360
are things that aren't really tightly correlated
with the current behavior, but it's pretty

376
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:46.519
lockstep. I mean, this is
how paleoanthropologists go about reconstructing the anatomy and

377
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:54.800
behavior infer behavior for these extinct species
is by drawing analogy to the same correlations

378
00:34:54.880 --> 00:35:01.360
that exist in other living species.
And so one of the interesting correlations to

379
00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:07.639
this, as I mentioned, the
reduced canines that allows that side to side

380
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:13.519
grinding. And is it an interesting
that the most credible sightings of sasquatch where

381
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:20.280
the observer has been privileged to see
the teeth from a gaping smile or an

382
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:24.599
open mouth. There's usually an absence
of projecting canines like you would see in

383
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:29.920
a bear or in a gorilla or
an orangutan, you know, And so

384
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:37.840
that correlates with the you know,
the fact that that that most witnesses who

385
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:43.400
do see the teeth comment on the
squared off human like appearance of the teeth

386
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:49.760
without fang like canines projecting. That
is exactly the anatomy that would be correlated

387
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:58.639
with the facial skeletal adaptations and proportions
that that are seemed to be present.

388
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:02.599
So that's the interesting So in the
same way we go from that then say

389
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:07.000
to the tools. Oh, well, I guess we were we were talking

390
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:12.719
about to get off on a different
branch. We were talking about the intelligence.

391
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.400
And so if you if you do
that same correlation, that same alignment

392
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:23.599
of the skull, it is the
correlation is valid not only for the facial

393
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:29.760
skeleton, but for the cranium as
well that houses the brain. And rather

394
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:38.880
than having a massive globular, spherical
cranium to accommodate a human proportioned brain,

395
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:45.960
it looks just like the robust australopithesian
in that regard as well. And these

396
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:52.880
robust australopithesians were barely you know,
bipedal guerrillas or tims in that regard.

397
00:36:52.360 --> 00:37:02.679
Their brain was maybe fifty cubic centimeters
ccs bigger than that chimpanzee. So you

398
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:10.400
know, sasquatch would have an absolutely
larger cranium because of its more gigantic size.

399
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:15.280
But nevertheless, the proportion of brain
to body mass would be the same

400
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:21.800
the encephalization quotient you know, where
you when you take a ratio of brain

401
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:24.559
size to body mass, would be
on par with that of the known grade

402
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:30.400
apes or early hominins like the robust
australopitheses, which were just you know,

403
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:37.280
a half step half notch greater.
So then go back to the hand question

404
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:39.760
again, and you pointed out some
of the distinctions. I mean, the

405
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:49.920
limited record we have of handprints and
casts there seemed to consistently indicate a hand

406
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:58.920
that lacks the adaptations associated with apposability, with that potential for fine precision grip

407
00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:05.960
like you use when you hold a
pin or pick up a needle. You

408
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:12.840
know that requires the action of opposition, bringing the pads of the thumb in

409
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:17.440
direct opposition to the pads of the
other digits, particularly the index finger.

410
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:27.360
Obviously, now those movements, those
fine, finally controlled movements, have selected

411
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:32.119
four specializations of the muscles at the
base of the thumb which give that thumb

412
00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:38.599
kind of a drumstick looking appearance.
Those that's called the thin ar pad or

413
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:45.199
the theenar muscles. And that feature
seems to be uniformly absent from the sasquatch

414
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:52.920
and in fact, instead of the
thumb being being set at a ninety degree

415
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:57.360
rotation to the other digits. So
if you look at your hand right now,

416
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:00.840
you flex your fingers, they cross
your balm, but your thumb is

417
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:05.519
facing ninety degrees across your palm.
So when you flex your fingers, it

418
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:09.360
doesn't flex your thumb. It does
not move in the same orientation that your

419
00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:15.440
other fingers does. It crosses over
the palm at a right angle. And

420
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:23.000
so that that set sort of predisposes
the thumb for this opposition positioning. Well,

421
00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:29.519
the sasquatch thumb much more like an
ape, gorilla, or chim The

422
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:34.440
thumb isn't rotated nearly so much,
and so when the thumb flex is it

423
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:38.559
really moves in parallel to the other
digits, and since it doesn't have the

424
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:46.199
adaptations for that precision grip, you
notice a flattening of the palm and a

425
00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:53.079
lack of the enlargement of that drumstick
appearance those thein r muscles. Now,

426
00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:59.719
isn't it interesting because the hand lacks
the very features that we associate with precision

427
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:06.880
grip, with fine grip, which
we infer as essential to the evolution of

428
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:12.320
tool use, of the manufacture of
stone tools, for example, or other

429
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:17.440
manual activities associated with other sorts of
tool use, with the use of needle

430
00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:23.079
and thread, or you know alls
or scrapers, well, scrapers are more

431
00:40:24.280 --> 00:40:32.360
power grip. And the correlation being
is witnesses don't see Sasquatch doing or doing

432
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:37.000
those types of behaviors or utilizing those
tools. Nor do we find an archeological

433
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:42.679
record in North America that is attributed
to Sasquatch. I mean, they're certainly

434
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:50.079
not making the arrowhead points that we
find in Native American as a result of

435
00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:54.440
Native American activities. So it's just
it's really it's it's it's hard to convey

436
00:40:54.920 --> 00:41:02.960
in a brief you know, expose
the debt of correlation and consistency that is

437
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:08.039
present here when when you ask the
right questions and look for the right evidence,

438
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:19.480
the things are remarkably coherent and and
have you know, provide examples that

439
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:24.840
span at least a half a century
and many from a time when a lot

440
00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:31.679
of these types of things were only
in their early stages of understanding or development

441
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:39.199
in the thinking of anthropologists of the
time. And yet someone allegedly hoaxed all

442
00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:45.400
these things, you know, left
this trail of breadcrumbs that is so remarkably

443
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:51.880
coherent but actually has anticipated what we
now understand. Yeah, well, then

444
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:55.519
I guess we're underestimating the hoaxers,
having such foresighted anthropological models of the future.

445
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:00.960
Exactly. It's just I mean that
this is what really this way of

446
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:07.119
thinking, in addition to so much
other aspects of the evidence, but this

447
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:12.000
way of thinking is what absolutely converted
me, convinced me, if you will

448
00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:15.840
convinced me a better word. I
guess of the Patterson Gimblin film, when

449
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:21.400
you look at it and break it
down, some of the odd combinations of

450
00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:30.760
traits that actually anticipated current conventional wisdom, but which at the time in nineteen

451
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:37.800
sixty seven were counterintuitive to what was
considered conventional wisdom and at the risk of

452
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:45.000
being redundant. But it's such a
prime example that bears repetition the writings of

453
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:51.840
John Napier, who was a bona
fide primatologist and anatomist. He was a

454
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:58.360
physician and a trained anatomist. And
it's interesting that it's those since we started

455
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:00.719
off talking about anatomy, that tend
to have a more open mind to some

456
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:07.400
of that anatomical evidence. I guess
it comes through the appreciation of the significance

457
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:13.079
of that evidence due to the training
and experience. But Napier was very focused

458
00:43:13.159 --> 00:43:16.840
on the footprints, and in his
book, which you had a lot of

459
00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:27.039
negative tones or observations, he still
the final bottom line was he was convinced

460
00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:32.480
there was something out there that sasquatch, Something was leaving footprints, and therefore

461
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:39.840
sasquatch must exist. What exactly it
was he was unable to conclusively state.

462
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:44.800
But when it came to the Patterson
Himlan film, he was quite negative,

463
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:51.400
not quite negative. He had a
negative opinion. He did not he could

464
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:57.119
not endorse it, and yet he
was forthright enough to acknowledge he really couldn't

465
00:43:58.239 --> 00:44:02.639
offer a good rationale for that rejection, but he said, when he saw

466
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:07.639
that figure on the film, from
the waist up, it looked essentially like

467
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:09.719
an ape, and yet from the
waist down it had long legs like a

468
00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:17.000
human or a hominin and a late
homonum. And he said he just could

469
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:24.280
not conceive of such a mosaic,
such a hybrid of structure occurring in nature,

470
00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:31.119
because so many anthropologists at that time
it was kind of a all or

471
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:40.519
nun that the human condition just emerged
in its complete, perfected form, if

472
00:44:40.599 --> 00:44:45.920
you will. And so isn't it
interesting? Though, because shortly after that,

473
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:51.760
the publication of that book, which
was in the early seventies seventy two,

474
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:55.400
I think in the mid to later
seventies, was kind of considered by

475
00:44:55.480 --> 00:45:01.920
some to be the golden age of
anthropology, with the discovery of Australopithecus afarensis

476
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:10.519
and lucy and sort of the first
real glimpse beyond going back to the very

477
00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:15.199
beginnings of the emergence of hominin bipedalism, it was thought at that time.

478
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:22.400
And so for the first time we
had much more complete hip bones, the

479
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:27.599
pelvis, we had, the thigh
bones, the femera that we had knees

480
00:45:28.119 --> 00:45:35.800
and so forth, and associated with
the crania of these australopithesienes. And the

481
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.800
statements to the popular press were,
isn't this interesting? From the waist up

482
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:45.800
they look essentially like chimpanzees, but
from the waist down they look like little

483
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:52.000
hairy humans. Well wait a minute, that was the very lynchpin that Napier

484
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:59.880
proposed to negate or to reject the
Patterson Giblin film. And yet it anticipated

485
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:09.519
um that those subsequent discoveries that bore
out that otherwise inconceivable combination of trades that

486
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:15.840
interesting. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot
and beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be

487
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:23.480
right back after these messages. Well, let let's talk about some of the

488
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:30.159
other anatomy like the pelvis for example, and and mid the bent knee gate

489
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.880
and that sort of thing of the
PG film. UM, and now the

490
00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:37.760
narrowing of the hips. Um.
It has to have something to do with

491
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:42.320
um center of gravity I would imagine
for such a massive biped kind of otherwise

492
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:46.280
it'd be teeter tottering back and forth
and whatnot. And does that also probably

493
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:54.000
is where the more inlined um inline
track ways, the lack of straddle in

494
00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:59.880
the track ways probably comes from I'm
guessing is the center of gravity issue.

495
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:02.880
Um, let's address that and talk
about that a little bit and and how

496
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:07.719
that ties into like the bent knee
gate as a shock absorber sort of thing,

497
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:09.920
and the high leg lift in the
swing phase of the gates and things.

498
00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:14.559
Sure, okay, so let's start
with the pelvis then, Yeah,

499
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:16.159
there's a lot there. I'm sorry
I throw so much at you once want.

500
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:21.639
Fine, we'll just work our way
down the limb. And the pelvis

501
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:28.199
has gotten a lot of a lot
of sort of misdirections, misinformation. The

502
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:38.280
tendency has always been to compare us
to our closest neighbors and assume then that

503
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:47.480
the intermediate taxa were somehow also intermediate
in in anatomy. And so the chimp

504
00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:57.920
has this very modified pelvis with these
high blades of the ilium, the you

505
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:01.079
know, the hip bones essentially the
up on the ridges of the hips,

506
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:08.960
not the hip joint. But in
a chimph, they are elongated, tall

507
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:15.480
and still very narrow, but they're
very tall, and they face front to

508
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:21.000
back so that the muscles, the
gluteal muscles that attach on the back of

509
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:28.199
those blades are acting simply as retractors
of the hip. They extends extenders of

510
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:30.840
the hip. So when you're climbing
up a tree, or when you're walking

511
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:37.199
on all fours, you know,
worried about balance, then they work to

512
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:40.800
draw the hip back, draw the
thigh back as the hip is extended and

513
00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:46.800
you're walking forward, all right,
So the thought was then that that had

514
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:52.280
to be modified in order to become
bipedal. Well, as it turns out

515
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:57.840
now, which it should have been
self evident, it really was, but

516
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:02.360
sometimes it just got lost. Gymps
have been evolving over the same period of

517
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:08.239
time since the divergence from a last
shared common ancestor maybe in different ways that

518
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:14.760
they have been involving, and they
have evolved these remarkable specializations for arm hanging.

519
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:20.719
They've experienced a shortening of the lower
back, the lumbar spine, and

520
00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:28.679
this elongation of these of these hip
bones, and obviously the greater emphasis on

521
00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:34.360
the forelimbs, so their forelimbs are
actually longer than their hind limbs. And

522
00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:37.840
so but now as we as the
fossil record, you have to remember that

523
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:45.800
chips and gorillas are themselves relic populations
that do not reflect the totality of ape

524
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:52.880
evolution. We have over well over
one hundred different species of extinct ape that

525
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:59.199
have been discovered in the past half
century, and they don't often get as

526
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:02.679
much press as the human ancestors.
But what one thing that has come out

527
00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:08.559
of that is that some of these
also sort of dabbled in bipedalism, maybe

528
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:14.960
not a fully committed bipedalism on the
ground, but because they spent time climbing

529
00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:22.679
and standing and reaching overhead for resources, their bodies with that tail less torso

530
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:32.840
and had a modified, more generalized
pelvis that was less like a chim than

531
00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:39.199
it was similar to our own.
And so the emergence of the bipedal hominints

532
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:44.480
that then committed to walking on the
ground really probably really didn't have to change

533
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:50.760
their pelvis all that much. Now, as far as narrowing, the only,

534
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:58.000
the only really hasn't been a trajectory
of narrowing so much as it's it's

535
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:02.679
the lack of sexual dimorphism, the
lack of differences between the genders that we

536
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:08.760
see in humans, which is entirely
the result of our big brains. A

537
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:19.000
female pelvis has to have a broader
outlet in order to accommodate a human infant

538
00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:23.719
with a relatively large brain by comparison
to an ape like a chamber of gorilla.

539
00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:29.079
This is why some of the statements
that were made about the PG film

540
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:36.800
by the experts of the time are
so inane and so silly in the hindsight.

541
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:39.400
They should have been recognized as such
at the time. But one of

542
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:44.719
the commentators made the remark, isn't
it silly, you know, the hoaxer's

543
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:50.239
it's clearly a man in a first
suit. It walks like a man,

544
00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:57.679
but they've added breasts, so you've
got this ridiculous combination of female and male

545
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:00.960
features. Well, now wait a
minute again. The only reason a human

546
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:07.360
female walks like a human female is
because of the wider breadth of the hips

547
00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:14.079
to accommodate the large brained infant.
Sasquatch, as we've just discussed earlier,

548
00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:16.320
have a small brain. They have
a brain that's not much bigger than a

549
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:22.000
chimps or gorillas, and so females
wouldn't have wide hips. Females would have

550
00:52:22.119 --> 00:52:28.960
a pelvis that essentially looks just like
a male sasquatch pelvis, and so a

551
00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:36.519
female sasquatch like Patty even though she
sports breasts to nurse her offspring has a

552
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:40.800
pelvis that doesn't look much different than
her male counterpart with and she would walk

553
00:52:42.599 --> 00:52:45.639
like a man. And this comes
into the next point you made. When

554
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:52.639
the commitment to terrestrial bipedalism was made, in order to help balance the torso

555
00:52:53.199 --> 00:52:59.719
over not three limbs or two limbs, but one at a time, there

556
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:06.800
were changes that pelvis. That shorter
pelvis, not necessarily narrower, but shorter.

557
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:10.559
The blades instead of facing just front
to back, curled around to the

558
00:53:10.719 --> 00:53:15.400
sides. So now the smaller what
we call the lesser glue teals the gluteus

559
00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:22.760
minimus and medius, especially the medias, are on the sides, and so

560
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:30.159
instead of pulling the leg back the
lower limb the thigh back retracting it,

561
00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:36.800
they balance the torso over the support
limb. You can test this out just

562
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:38.840
next time you stand up and take
a step or two, put your hand

563
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:43.239
down right on the side of your
hip, and as you lift one leg,

564
00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:49.239
you'll feel the muscles on the opposite
side on the support limb flex keeping

565
00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:53.760
that pelvis and torso from dropping to
the unsupported side, you know, like

566
00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:58.280
a drunken soldier or well, just
think about the way a chimpanzee walks on

567
00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:04.880
two legs that chact Ristigan and actors
try to emulate that whenever they done an

568
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:10.159
eighth suit, and it's that characteristic
kind of arms out like a tight rope

569
00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:17.760
walker and swinging the torso back and
forth in a swaying motion over the alternating

570
00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:24.239
limbs in order to balance the or
the torso over the support limb anyway.

571
00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:30.239
So one of the ways to address
that, in addition to the reorganization of

572
00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:36.159
the pelvis, is to angle the
thigh in towards the midline, so your

573
00:54:36.199 --> 00:54:43.440
base of support is already closer to
the center of mass than otherwise. So

574
00:54:43.599 --> 00:54:49.679
when we walk, instead of a
wide splayed gait with our feet apart,

575
00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:53.719
we place. You know, it's
not as as extreme as a as a

576
00:54:54.239 --> 00:55:00.239
model walking down a catwalk, you
know, where they literally almost cross their

577
00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:05.239
feet over in front of the others. But it's closer to that. And

578
00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:08.559
you find too when you take on
a heavy load. Next time you're backpacking

579
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:13.760
with a heavy backpack, notice the
way you modify your gate a little bit,

580
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:19.239
And if you're at all experienced,
you do this intentionally, whereas you

581
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:23.639
do tend to walk a little more
tight rope because you're bringing the center or

582
00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:29.559
bringing your line or a point of
support more directly under the center of mass,

583
00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:34.360
and you don't have to utilize the
muscular effort quite as much to balance

584
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:39.440
your pelvis and torso over that in
any case, So then you talked about

585
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:47.440
the compliant gait. Humans have adapted
are adopted of a manner of walking that

586
00:55:49.280 --> 00:56:00.039
maximizes the step length and takes advantage
of that rigid longitudinal relatively rigid longitudinal large

587
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:07.760
And so together with the elongation of
our of our legs, our lower extremities,

588
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:13.760
we reach out with a very extended
limb and come down with a heel

589
00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:22.480
strike and then transfer onto that that
supporting foot. But that that extends our

590
00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:28.440
our step length. And you know, over a long period of walking that

591
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:32.639
even if you've only gained a couple
of inches, you multiply that by hundreds

592
00:56:32.679 --> 00:56:38.000
of thousands of steps and you've reduced
significantly the number of individual steps you've had

593
00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:44.239
to take to cover that that ground. But as a result of that extended

594
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.239
limb, we have a bit of
a jar when we when you know,

595
00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:52.039
jolt, when when our heel strikes
the ground, when it's called the heel

596
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:58.320
strike versus the toa and and because
of our arts, we have two points

597
00:56:58.360 --> 00:57:02.800
of peak pressure beneath the foot wanted
the heel strike, and then as you

598
00:57:02.840 --> 00:57:07.119
know, the full foot is in
contact, the heel comes up, and

599
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:10.360
now the point of contact has shifted
to the ball of the foot, to

600
00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:19.920
the metatarsal heads because of that arch, and there's another peak pressure point concentrated

601
00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:24.039
in that small surface area. As
we push off ultimately with our big toe,

602
00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:32.360
well you increase body mass considerably,
and those peak planet pressures are something

603
00:57:32.440 --> 00:57:39.079
to be avoided. And so one
way is to not have an arch which

604
00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:46.199
differentially concentrates pressure under those limited points
of contact, and don't have a heel

605
00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:53.800
strike where you where you're in you
know, you're actively limiting the surface area

606
00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:59.039
to absorb all of that weight,
that and that force. You know,

607
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:05.079
that accelerate force through a small area
of tissue. Walk in such a way

608
00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:07.639
that the whole foot comes in contact. Okay, that's interesting because that's what

609
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:09.920
I was going to be my next
question, but you've already addressed it.

610
00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:15.199
Based on the footprint cast evidence,
I'm not seeing a lot of really deep

611
00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:20.800
toe. I mean, our heel
impressions which indicate to me along with witness

612
00:58:20.920 --> 00:58:24.800
sighting reports of this sort of flapping
sound that sometimes they hear with sasquatches running

613
00:58:24.840 --> 00:58:30.000
through the area or across cement or
something like that. Yeah, I've often

614
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:34.400
thought that perhaps they come down rather
flat footed as opposed to a heel strike,

615
00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:37.800
because you know, five hundred pounds
of weight coming down on a heel

616
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:40.440
every single time would do a real
number to their heelbones, I would imagine.

617
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:45.400
Interesting. Okay, I was just
gonna say this is something that Krantz

618
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:53.599
kind of explores in his book where
he's talking about the noticeable breadth to length

619
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:59.880
ratios that are distinct for sasquatch,
much greater than human and he points out

620
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:08.920
that when you allow for that greater
breadth and the increased surface contact by having

621
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:15.880
a flat foot, the surface area, you know, placing the foot more

622
00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:23.320
flatly on the ground, you your
pressure per unit area of the foot isn't

623
00:59:23.440 --> 00:59:30.000
much different than the theoretical isn't much
different than what is observed for the human

624
00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:34.440
foot, which is, you know, right there at the tolerance levels of

625
00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:38.039
the of the tissue of the skin
and connective tissue, fatty tissue, and

626
00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:47.840
bone so you can address the increased
forces anatomically, but you can also address

627
00:59:47.880 --> 00:59:52.440
them behaviorally. And that's that's what
you were talking about with placing the foot

628
00:59:53.639 --> 01:00:00.239
more flatly initially instead of a decided
heel strike, which you, as you

629
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:04.440
correctly point out, seems to be
the evidence of that seems to be completely

630
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:08.119
absent, largely absent from the fossil
record, or excuse me, the footprint

631
01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:15.800
track record. In addition, you
can soak up some of that impact force

632
01:00:16.599 --> 01:00:22.639
with the tendons and ligaments in the
joints of the ankle and the knee and

633
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:29.280
the hip. And this is where
the compliant or flexed jointed gait comes into

634
01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:34.280
play. In the biomechanical literature,
it's referred to, kind of in an

635
01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:39.599
informal sense as a groucho walk.
Now, most of the younger generation don't

636
01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:45.920
even know who Groucho Marx is,
let alone having seen him on the movie

637
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:49.800
screen, which is a travesty,
by the way, a huge it's a

638
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.920
sign of the downfall of our civilization
in my opinion, to not know who

639
01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:58.119
Groucho Marx is. That's right.
But Groucho Marx had this funny walk,

640
01:00:58.519 --> 01:01:02.599
and you know, he had this
big bristly mustache and round glasses and a

641
01:01:02.679 --> 01:01:08.800
big cigar that you twiddle there,
and he would lean way forward and walk

642
01:01:08.920 --> 01:01:16.880
with a bent at the waist and
non flexed hips and knees and so anyway,

643
01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:22.559
this is what's called a compliant gait. And there have been various systematic

644
01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:29.400
studies done using force plate to collect
data of ground reaction forces to show that

645
01:01:29.559 --> 01:01:36.440
you can reduce the impact forces which
are called ground reaction forces, the forces

646
01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:40.599
the ground is pushing back against the
force that you're imposing on it. Just

647
01:01:40.760 --> 01:01:47.840
the way that that description works by
upwards of eighteen twenty percent. That's that's

648
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:52.840
pretty significant when you start talking about, you know, the magnitude of forces

649
01:01:52.880 --> 01:01:57.519
of a big seven hundred pound Patty
walking across the sandbar. You know,

650
01:01:57.719 --> 01:02:07.159
so um so walking with a compliant
gait combined with the broader foot and actually

651
01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:10.559
probably larger foot for the overall size. I mean, some people have looked

652
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:15.320
at Patty and say that our feet
looked kind of oversize. Well, they'd

653
01:02:15.320 --> 01:02:19.639
probably well, some of that is
optical illusion due to the overexposure of the

654
01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:24.800
film, but there is something to
be said for the length to stature ratio

655
01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:30.360
Instead, I say that same they
say that same thing about homoplurisiensis about had

656
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:35.199
much larger feet than its stature,
indicating that's right. Yeah. So see,

657
01:02:35.239 --> 01:02:42.119
I think all of that the unique
human condition really didn't emerge until our

658
01:02:42.199 --> 01:02:52.840
skeletons remarkably lightened in weight and mass, and we went from an elongated heel

659
01:02:53.400 --> 01:03:00.280
that gave greater leverage to a very
short heel length projecting behind ankle joint for

660
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:06.599
a speed lever. So a little
bit of displacement of that proximal or that

661
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:12.440
yeah, that proximal part of the
ankle or the heel bone would translate into

662
01:03:12.920 --> 01:03:19.360
a very rapid movement of the distal
end, which is an adaptation for running.

663
01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:22.840
We are our skeleton, our long
legs are you know, a lot

664
01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:30.440
of the discussion about the changes in
in the cranial base and in our proportions

665
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:37.480
of upper extremity to lower extremity,
and you know, just the more light,

666
01:03:37.639 --> 01:03:43.519
the lightning, the grasslization of the
skeleton. These are adaptations for endurance

667
01:03:43.599 --> 01:03:49.159
walking and running, and we're quite
different sasquatch has evolved in a very different

668
01:03:49.239 --> 01:03:54.000
way. I mean it muscles its
way up and down those mountain sides and

669
01:03:54.920 --> 01:04:00.639
you know, it's probably capable of
bursts of speed, just a gorilla or

670
01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:02.519
a chimp, a gorilla. I
was just looking up the other day because

671
01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:09.880
someone was asking the silverback gorilla can
attain bursts of speed up to twenty five

672
01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:15.599
miles per hour, which is that's
a world class sprint or speed. But

673
01:04:15.719 --> 01:04:18.320
it can't sustain it obviously for a
lot. And neither can a world class

674
01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:21.199
sprint or sustain that for more than
you know, one hundred yard dash.

675
01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:26.880
But the long distance runners, marathon
runners don't run at that pace. And

676
01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:32.000
I don't think a sasquatch would be
capable either it doesn't have those adaptations or

677
01:04:32.039 --> 01:04:39.239
a gorilla, but but sasquatch would
be much more capable than would a gorilla.

678
01:04:40.119 --> 01:04:45.199
And so you know, feats of
distance, an overnight trek across a

679
01:04:46.159 --> 01:04:51.679
gap between forest fragments would be something
that you know, sasquatch could undertake.

680
01:04:53.199 --> 01:05:00.400
I think that's probably why sometimes we
get sign or sightings in otherwise odd ices,

681
01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:05.960
is because there could be like crants
used to refer to rogue males who

682
01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:12.320
are striking out from their natal territory. They've been forced out by the resident

683
01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:16.400
male, dominant male, and they
have to find their own turf and their

684
01:05:16.440 --> 01:05:23.199
own females attract their own females,
and so sometimes they strike out through less

685
01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:28.719
desirable habitat in order to find a
place of their own. Yeah, I

686
01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:31.360
just kind of cook over that terrain
during the night when there are fewer eides

687
01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:35.519
out there to see them, and
they feel safer into the cover of darkness.

688
01:05:35.760 --> 01:05:40.599
You know. One of the things
that that has given me a greater

689
01:05:40.719 --> 01:05:45.400
appreciation of just the muscle mass that
sasquatches must have is doing exactly what you

690
01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:50.880
mentioned, which is experimenting about experimenting
with my own gait while backpacking. You

691
01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:54.599
know, if I have like a
forty pound pack you on my back,

692
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:58.800
that's a significant addition to my own
weight. And I do find myself leaning

693
01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:02.559
forward slightly. Um and and just
for you know, just for laughs,

694
01:06:02.599 --> 01:06:08.760
I kind of adopt the compliant gait
um. And it sure makes a big

695
01:06:08.840 --> 01:06:13.320
difference on the impact, especially going
downhill and to some degree up but mostly

696
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:16.559
downhill. But I'll tell you,
I am sore in the morning, um

697
01:06:17.239 --> 01:06:21.480
all that it's it's just an incredible
burden on my feeble little muscles. So

698
01:06:21.840 --> 01:06:27.079
sure, exactly, Well, that's
and that's it. Because you can no

699
01:06:27.239 --> 01:06:38.480
longer simply rely on the joint locking
mechanisms or the passive tension in the ligaments

700
01:06:38.679 --> 01:06:48.719
and joint capsules. The tendons can
store some elastic energy, especially we see

701
01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:55.760
we one of the very human like
characteristics is this very well developed Achilles tendon,

702
01:06:55.880 --> 01:07:00.639
the calcaneal tendon, and it's kind
of like it's not exactly like that.

703
01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:08.239
We compare it to a bungee cord, that connective tissue. Within the

704
01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:13.920
way it's arranged within the tendon,
it allows for a little bit of stretch

705
01:07:14.039 --> 01:07:17.719
and there's some elastic tissue in there
as well that helps it to rebound to

706
01:07:17.880 --> 01:07:21.880
its original shape. But they have
found, you know, that that these

707
01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:30.159
um these tendons can return a significant
fraction of the kinetic energy once they're loaded

708
01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:36.559
back into the system in propulsion.
You know, the extreme example of this

709
01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:43.679
mechanism is the big giant red kangaroos
in Australia, which once they get up

710
01:07:43.719 --> 01:07:48.719
to speed, you know, they're
basically springing on these relying on these on

711
01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:58.079
these tendons and the counter balance the
cantilever rather cantilever mechanism of their torso and

712
01:07:58.280 --> 01:08:02.880
tail that stiff tail sticking back there
over the hip. Each time they hit

713
01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:08.000
the ground, the tail tends to
come down, and the torso tends to

714
01:08:08.079 --> 01:08:12.239
come down, which loads all of
the ligaments and tendons in the back,

715
01:08:12.400 --> 01:08:16.640
in the spine and the you know, big tendons of the muscles for the

716
01:08:16.760 --> 01:08:25.640
tail, and then that tends to
upon recoil, lift the kangaroo up again,

717
01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:32.000
you know. And so the force
necessary to generate the lift for that

718
01:08:32.199 --> 01:08:40.920
next step, that next spring rather
is in part contributed by the recoil of

719
01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:45.640
these ligamented structures. So the point
is that it's interesting. You look at

720
01:08:45.319 --> 01:08:50.760
Patty when you look at a chimpanzee, and they have almost no real significant

721
01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:55.920
tendon, and what is there is
a broad much more what we call apple

722
01:08:56.000 --> 01:09:02.800
neurotic, a broad tendon spanning between
the calf musculature in the heel. But

723
01:09:03.039 --> 01:09:09.399
if you look at Patty, she's
kind of intermediate between a chimpanzee and a

724
01:09:09.520 --> 01:09:14.560
human. She has a massive broad
tendon in the area. The heads of

725
01:09:14.600 --> 01:09:19.600
the gas strock memius are discernible,
and they're long, but they're shorter than

726
01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:25.479
they aren't a chimpanzee. They're a
bit longer than they are in the human

727
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:28.720
and the length. When we say
the length, I'm talking about the length

728
01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:34.920
of the fibers that constitute the two
gas strock heads. So if you're relying

729
01:09:35.079 --> 01:09:42.720
on those muscles to kind of load
the tendon, they don't need to be

730
01:09:42.920 --> 01:09:46.000
very long. The chimps are long
because they move their ankle through such a

731
01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:50.560
huge range of motion compared to ours
when they're climbing up and down trees,

732
01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:57.039
and so the muscle fiber has to
shorten through that range of motion. But

733
01:09:57.199 --> 01:10:01.399
if the range of motion is greatly
restricted, and the adaptation is to load

734
01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:08.680
the tendon so that when the four
foot hits the ground, see, it

735
01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:13.800
would otherwise stretch that tendon. I
almost ruptured my tendon, just to show

736
01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:15.199
you the kind of the principle,
you know. I was out we were

737
01:10:15.279 --> 01:10:20.920
collecting firewood, and rather than using
acts as we were and saw as we

738
01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:26.720
were just gathering up the dead fall, and we're breaking it on rocks or

739
01:10:27.279 --> 01:10:30.680
leaning across something and stomping on it. Well, when you do that,

740
01:10:30.880 --> 01:10:34.960
you need to stomp so that your
ankle is right over the top, so

741
01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:39.680
that the force coming down through your
leg goes straight through the well like a

742
01:10:39.800 --> 01:10:42.840
dummy. I wasn't was being a
little careless, and when I stomped,

743
01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:46.640
I caught the branch with the tip
the end of my boot out at my

744
01:10:46.760 --> 01:10:55.319
toes and it flexed my foot up
really forcefully, and oh man, it

745
01:10:55.560 --> 01:11:00.359
pulled my achilles tendon and I had
a Charlie horse like you wouldn't believe.

746
01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:02.960
And I thought I had a volts. I mean, that's how you can

747
01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:10.960
avoults tear tear the tendon. Either
it either it fails internally in the fibers

748
01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:16.880
slip and then you get this big
swollen contusion and potential hematoma. Or it

749
01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:21.680
literally tears. It can pull it
right free from the heel bone, and

750
01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:28.239
sometimes even tears some of the bone
that those fibers are embedded within, away

751
01:11:28.279 --> 01:11:31.560
from the heel bone. So I
was limping for several days. I immediately

752
01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:34.399
put some ice on it. Thankfully
we had some ice in one of the

753
01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:38.920
ice tests and I could put some
ice on of it. No martial arts

754
01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:44.319
classes in your background, is not. Yeah, it just took at one

755
01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:48.600
moment of a of a misdirected the
stump, not aimed quite placed, quite

756
01:11:48.680 --> 01:11:54.279
properly, and man, well you
know what, we have a lot We

757
01:11:54.359 --> 01:11:56.880
have a lot more questions down at
least I have a lot more questions to

758
01:11:56.960 --> 01:11:59.439
ask. Um. I think Bob
has been more of a student today,

759
01:11:59.439 --> 01:12:03.039
and just like I said, back
listening as as have I. But why

760
01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:05.800
don't why don't we go ahead and
close down the main session. We can

761
01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:10.319
go to the members section and then
I can ask you some of the other

762
01:12:10.479 --> 01:12:13.119
questions that I have. Are you
okay with that, Bobo? Yeah,

763
01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:15.079
I want to hear what the latest
stuff's going on? Well yeah, well

764
01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:16.760
yeah, why don't we go ahead
and do that. We'll save that for

765
01:12:16.840 --> 01:12:21.319
the members section. So everybody else
out there listening, I really appreciate you

766
01:12:21.439 --> 01:12:25.319
listening. If you do want to
hear us, continue this conversation with doctor

767
01:12:25.359 --> 01:12:29.039
Meldrum, or continue a conversation with
any of our guests. Every single week,

768
01:12:29.359 --> 01:12:32.079
you can become a member. Just
go to Big Fan Beyond podcast dot

769
01:12:32.199 --> 01:12:36.239
com and click the membership link and
I'll bring you right there and you get

770
01:12:36.239 --> 01:12:40.720
an extra baby half hour or forty
five minutes of conversation every single week.

771
01:12:40.960 --> 01:12:43.520
And I don't know, reviews are
in. It seems to be a big

772
01:12:43.640 --> 01:12:45.359
hit. People are enjoying it,
so maybe you're missing out on something.

773
01:12:45.520 --> 01:12:47.880
So Jeff, go ahead and stick
around with us for a moment, and

774
01:12:48.279 --> 01:12:51.720
Bobo, why don't you close down
this episode here? All right, folks,

775
01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:56.319
Well, thanks for joining us for
episode two hundred and our special guest

776
01:12:56.359 --> 01:13:00.279
today, doctor Jeff Meldrum. We
appreciate him showing up. We'll see I

777
01:13:00.319 --> 01:13:04.039
guess next time at the three episode. Okay, until then, everyone,

778
01:13:04.319 --> 01:13:14.359
thanks for joining us and keep it
squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's

779
01:13:14.399 --> 01:13:17.199
episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If
you liked what you heard, please rate

780
01:13:17.279 --> 01:13:21.520
and review us on iTunes, subscribe
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781
01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:27.720
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782
01:13:28.239 --> 01:13:31.720
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783
01:13:32.119 --> 01:13:38.079
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