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Welcome to Sword and Scale rewind with
your hosts Matt Fondealier and Ian Bag.

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Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome
back to Sword and Scale rewind. I

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missed you, guys. It's been
a really long week, but I'm glad

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you're here. My name is Matt
Fondelier. I'm one of the hosts of

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the show, and I'm also really
glad that Ian Bag is here again.

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Well, hello, Matt, you
ready to talk? I'm some murder We're

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not. Are we talking murder day? Or is this the actual first ever

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true crime podcast? We're just discussed
crime that could very well be the case.

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Yeah. We As you know,
listener, we tend to cover the

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episode number that corresponds with the episode
of Sword and Scale. So in the

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case of episode one sixty nine,
we're talking about episode one sixty nine.

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But here's the thing. Episode one
sixty nine is kind of about episode one

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sixty eight. It's very much about
one sixty and we've already covered episode one

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sixty eight in excruciating detail. I'm
told, so, is that what somebody

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told you? I'm making that out
on my own worst enemy. I was

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like, you guys talked a little
dude. Yeah, it's my own brain

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gone. He's cutting in off too
many times. You should let the man

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talk more. Now. That's why
everybody in shot up and let Matt finish.

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That's what they tell me all the
time. I'm like, I'm sorry,

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I apologize and quit saying like.
That's what my mom says. See

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you don't like when you say the
word like, But I can tell you

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I never notice it. I've heard
you pointed out in episodes, but I

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don't notice it. It's when I'm
really thinking my brain goes like like,

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like, look like we all have
those, we all have the ticks.

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I've got lots of so and lots
of my mother. Yeah, screw your

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trying to relate to you. Goddamn
it. Oh good times on nine?

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Yes, do you remember one?
Do you remember what episode sixty nine was?

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Actual episode sixty nine? Remember?
Oh? I don't, just because

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we're talking about sixty nine. Yeah, just wondering if you remember doing that

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one as well. I could look
it up real quickly, because you know

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I will. Why don't you you
feel about because you did? You did

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a hundred and forty of these before
I showed up, right. Oh yeah,

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I was actually I don't know if
everybody knows the story. Gather round,

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Gather round, round, folks.
So here here's the deal, guys.

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I don't know if you've heard,
but I work for Adam Carol Let's

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come up on this show before.
Now completely unrelated to that job. I

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loved this podcast, Sword and Scale. Now, Adam Carolla's now unfortunately ex

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wife, Lynette Corolla was really into
true crime stuff, right, and I

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got you divorced them not killing him. That could have gone a totally different

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ways when she might have been learning
and stuff. Yeah, well, I

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told her about this awesome show called
Sword and Scale that I thought she would

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really like. She and her co
host, Stephanie Wilder Taylor got super into

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Sword and Scale to the point where
they reached out to Mike Boudet. Oh.

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Now for a really long time,
Lynnette and Stephanie, the podcast co

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hosts of a show on the Corolla
Network, became the hosts of Sword and

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Scale. Rewind I was the producer
of that show, mostly because I stuck

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my big nose into everything and say
you should make this happen, and I

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want to be a part of it. So even though I was not on

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the microphone, from episode one.
I was behind the glass since the very

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first episode. So you started producing
and then you've turned into that. That's

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right, by the way, this
may be the first show that women have

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been replaced by men. Sorry,
girls usually goes around the other way.

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We need to get some females involved
well. Anyway, So over the years

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my role has changed a lot over
there. When did you start going on

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air? UM, I am not
exactly sure. It was probably it was

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well over one hundred episodes. I
would say more like hundred and fifteen something

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like that, where Lynette just became
extremely busy and and I was like,

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I'm just I'm here anyway, I
live in this building. I wonder if

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she started to break down too,
because just murder, murder, murder coming.

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It was a lot to go.
It was a lot to listen to,

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and then a lot to kind of
reanalyze and try to figure out the

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best way to approach it comedically.
I had sort of guest hosted a few

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episodes earlier on in the run um
and I don't think they knew how much

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of a ham I am. You
know, Oh no, I was like,

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fuck yeah, I gave me the
mic. I do this by myself

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and they're like, Matt, we're
trying to take this very serious. If

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you should pump the brakes a little
bit, could you could call him the

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victim of loser? Yeah, that's
that's an unfortunate theme. Oh goodness,

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So there you go. That's uh, that is that's the whole story.

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So that's why Corolla and Sword and
Scale are like they're kind of related through

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me. And that's how I ended
up here because I tried Adams Show and

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You're like, hey, you should
talk about murder. Yeah. It was

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like, you're a funny guy.
I should try to ruin your life and

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I don't feel like you're do enough
crying anybody. Yeah, you know it's

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great. Is I will bring up
the show on stage at the end of

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my show. I'll say, hey, I got some podcasts and one of

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them is you like murder? And
recently I was in Chicago. I was

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like, that's that's our sport is
murder. So I brought that up.

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Did you get like a no,
I gotta I gotta plot. Really funny

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every time I say do you like
murder? They all clap. It's so

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funny. That's great. So I
bring up Sword and Scale and I say,

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I'm not on that, but I
do the Autopsy Show. That's what

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I call it, The Autopsy Show. A certain scale that's good. And

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people are like wow, and then
and then uh, and you should listen

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to that. And I go,
we do it from the Adam Corolla studios

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and people go, oh, it's
so funny. How it just grows.

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Oh, oh babe, a lot
of buzzwords. Yeah, they just they

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usually at the beginning, they just
think I'm some douche in my closet with

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a microphone. Yeah, now I'm
in somebody else's closet. That's right.

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Sadly, we are recording from a
large closet. Basically windows, that's what

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production window. That's what studios are
though, basically closets. That's true.

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I'm gonna I'm gonna skip her head
in this in this thing. Sure,

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they talk about podcasts and radio versus
radio. I know I wrote that down

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too. So which do you think
which which impresses people more? Podcasts or

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radio? Interesting question? And then
why has radio been such bad money for

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most people? Where some people make
a lot of money? Okay, Because

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you know, I've have these friends
that are in radio and they don't make

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much money, and then there's a
couple of people that make I shit done.

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I don't know why. I just
suddenly got scared that I said shit.

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Well, to talk about the last
part first, the entertainment industry is

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filled with jobs of bizarre pay levels, and so it doesn't seem that unusual

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that you have some people making not
a lot and other people making an obscene

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amount in what is essentially the same
field. I feel like that happens a

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lot in the entertainment realm. So
you just think it's it's not it's not.

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I mean, there was a I've
been at this company for a long

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enough time to remember when people didn't
know what a podcast was, and so

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in the beginning, it was very
difficult to explain to people what podcast even

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meant without using the word radio.
It became a lot easier for me to

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tell people I work in digital radio, and then people kind of understood what

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that meant. Um. I wonder
why they didn't stick with digital radio instead

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of podcast. Yeah, I'm not
sure. I think because the iPod,

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you know, I think that may
have had something to do with why the

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word podcast became such a catchy name. There's somebody out there who like takes

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credit for inventing the word podcast.
I'm gonna say something really might embarrass me

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and might make me. What is
Well, this is only the fourteenth episode

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we've done together, so it will
possibly be the worst thing. You said,

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what is pod? Like pod?
I? What is? What is

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pod? Yeah? What is it? What is an iPod? A legal

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drug that the kids do? We're
yeah, but is I'm not sure?

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You know, Okay, so I'm
not so so it wasn't something else that

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equals podcasts, right? It doesn't
know, it's just yeah, I'm not

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sure why. I'm almost positive it
has to do with the word iPod,

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but I could be completely So It's
kind of like windex compared to glass cleaner,

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you know, sure, yeah,
yeah, clean X compared to issue

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paper Yeah, okay, all right, you got me? Yeah, there

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you go. And I mean,
I think podcasting became way more lucrative when

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people started being able to sort of
program it into their cars. And the

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amount of commercials that you hear is
significantly less. You would hear way less,

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you know, eight minute commercial breaks
on the radio for eight minutes of

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content, way less. And also, well, I think we've discussed this

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before whereas Mike can tell a story
where he doesn't have to have an edge,

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like there's no cliff he can fall
off. He can go as far

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as you want on the story,
whereas radio and TV you got to keep

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it in their boundaries. That's a
great point too. There's all sorts of

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like the FCC and censorship, and
so far, at least podcasts have been

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pretty immune to that. They sort
of have become a home for free speech,

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right, which is why I like
people like it. I like it

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because for me, podcasts, I
like podcasts be kits. You get to

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curate your own radio station, is
what you basically are doing. Sure,

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so I can go from hockey to
murder to comedy, you know, and

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I get to listen to everything in
a ride or where where I'm at the

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gym or whatever. Yeah. So, and on this show you get to

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listen to murder and comedy so good
that somebody dies and then we laugh,

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We laugh. What do you do
for a living? We laugh at dead

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people. It's great. You should
check it out. Oh my god,

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well this episode, yeah, that's
true. This is an episode where nobody

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actually died because the entire episode is
a reaction show. It's sort of its

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own rewind show. It was right. It was like, let's talk about

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what happened in the last episode,
and there was his response to the last

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episode. It was his response to
people's response to the last episode. That's

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right. So if people hadn't responded
the way they had, I don't think

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he would have done this one.
I think he was shocked. I mean

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that was the sort of opening MONOLOGU
was about, Yeah, most of you

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guys are pretty cool. Well maybe
not most of you guys, but some

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of you guys are cool and the
rest of you dick. So when I

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when I think about when I thought
about this, who I just fell off

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my chair trying to think about um, I kind of I thought it was

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don't talk to cops like that section. Had he renamed it something like just

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the way it was sounded, maybe
some people because people react to certain words.

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People I do a joke about being
molested and peep key laughter, Yeah,

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well people boo it and like why
would you boo the victim? Like

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it makes no sense? So also
here is molest right, so they don't

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hear the whole thing. And I
think that was the same thing with that

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episode's title. Yeah, sort of
like click baity. Yeah, people were

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just reading the headline of it and
not right taking the time to understand it

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within the context of the episode.
I don't think he did that on purpose,

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though, No, I don't think
so either. Right, Yeah,

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he was really trying to focus on
the like protecting your personal liberty when you're

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involved in a crime. Like I
think he's talking about a pretty specific scenario,

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not saying if you get pulled over
for speeding, you don't have to

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talk to a police officer, or
if somebody tells you not to go over

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there. You know, I don't
have listened to you that. That's not

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what he was saying. But then
you're like you said, just the title,

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don't talk to cops. People see
that and they go, oh my

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god, here we go, Yeah, here we go. Dang thinks better

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than but like they actually think that
guy that's taping the cop from inside the

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window, can I see you?
Right? You get out, I don't

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have to talk to you, Like
that's who they see, right, Yeah,

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But that's not what he was saying. No, not at all.

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And it's it's it's interesting when you
hear this and when you the types of

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cops I don't think detectives should be
called cops. Yeah, we were kind

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of talking about that. I think
in the last episode we kind of did

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that. But also it's even more
this episode. I'm like, because they

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do talk about defunding the police in
this a little bit. Yeah, which

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is stupid. We all know that. But I understand what they're trying to

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say when they say defund the police. But there are nowhere near what there

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should do. There should be different
types of policing. Here's a thought parallel

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to this. Here's what I'm thinking
another way, a metaphor, if you

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will, all right, you can't
call a chess prodigy a checkers expert,

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see what I'm saying. I don't
know if that made sense saying it out

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loud, but yeah, that made
sense. It's on the same board,

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but it's a completely different game.
Yeah, And if you're a detective,

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you're like a chess player and you
have a whole different strategy of how to

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win that game. You might be
good at checkers, but it's a different

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game. Right, So I can
see what you mean. How maybe being

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a detective versus being like a cop
could be two different things. I don't

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think it's necessary for you to have
been a street cop to become a detective.

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Yeah, is the way I'm going
out. I think there should be

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schooling to become a detective. Only
from my experience with I have a couple

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of friends that kind of are in
the realm of law enforcement, and it

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would seem that really, and this
is not to say anything of the officers

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who are not in this position,
but the impression that I got was that

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like the best and the brightest are
the ones who become the detectives. Now,

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I'm sure that's just pr in people
I think it is who really want

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to be a detective see it that
way. But my father in law is

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in law enforcement and my brother in
law enforcement law enforcement, and I you

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know, I see what they the
way they went. My brother in law

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is a canine officer, so he
wants he's a dog. He's a dog.

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It's an incredible My brother in law
is Scooby Doo. He investigates cross

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but you know, I mean he
wanted to he specialized. There's it doesn't

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matter what career we're in. There's
the people that specialize and the people I'm

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just fine with just being general and
just not really rock on the boat too

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much and just kind of going it's
it doesn't matter if you're a policeman,

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like, there's there's gonna be those
people there, and there's gonna be bad

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cops, and there's gonna there's still
gonna be bad detectives. It doesn't matter.

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But I think if we tried to
find those people earlier and then instead

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of pushing them up while you go, you go walk around and beat fine

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Like I don't it doesn't make sense
to me. That's true. Yeah,

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I'm also thinking that there want to
be a chef, you should learn how

220
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to farm. There you go on
the field, they're gonna learn all about

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the different produce and stuff. Yeah, there you go. That's good.

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I think another reason that this episode
was sort of a firestick in people's minds,

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I think he hit a little too
close to home. He mentioned the

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COVID nineteen episode as well, being
sort of like a fire starter. And

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I think a lot of these episodes
that you are listening to with Sword and

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Scale, you're listening to a story
that is just so completely outside the realm

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of what you think would happen.
You know that people are so crazy,

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the crimes are so violent, that
they almost don't seem real. I know,

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I certainly have that issue when we
talk about these shows. Yeah,

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so you think it is written.
So this was an episode that, especially

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given the context of the time it
was released, there's just a lot it

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was just hitting close to home already, some tensions about law enforcement and how

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we interact with them on a community
level, and again, like the COVID

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episode, there was maybe some implications
about how you should be thinking about the

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world that we're living in, and
people don't want to hear that. They

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don't want to be told that what
they're thinking isn't right or is two people.

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I can't I can't remember the exact
date this came up, but people

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were were was very wasn't going just
A plus B equals C. So people

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were having a big time problem with
it. Um people were still fighting masks,

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they were fighting. They didn't want
to be told things. So I

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just I don't know, I don't
know. I also think because it was

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such a different show, it shook
people's tree. Yeah, they were odd

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that that would be the episode that
shakes people up. I know, right,

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yeah, well this is yeah,
yeah, but no God. So

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I also think they were shocked that
Mike didn't believe the exact same thing they

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believed, because Mike's he's he's he's
in the Yeah. And then and they're

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like, no, you're supposed to
You're supposed to think the same thing.

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I think. Yeah, and we
we we got the blue flag. That

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means we've we've you know, we've
got that flag. So that means you

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got to do that flag. And
this is not saying that you backed that

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flag. Yeah, makes sound like
we're back in like the weird like colonial

252
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era of people just like having flags
and stuff. It's like kind of gone

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that way. Everybody's got their own
flag out there. It's become more emblematic.

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Yeah, it's not real anymore.
Yeah, this is a weird time

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we're living in. Mike called it
a dystopian nightmare, which maybe a little

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a little over the top. I
don't know about that, but it's it's

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definitely strange time, that's for sure. A guy on one of the shows

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I did this weekend was talking about
how everything's off kilter because too many TV

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remakes. That's what did it.
It's just it's the time continuous. Yeah,

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and then they bring back sex in
the City and everything falls apart.

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That's so sad, I will say, given all the talk about how much

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this episode upset people, I was
expecting a lot meaner voicemails. There's only

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one well there, no, no, there's there's like three, but oh

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yeah, there's only one that's like
somewhat negative. All the other ones were

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like really nice voicemails. How you
hear like on the very end of the

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show, well, I agreed with
the lady that teaches the class, you

267
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know, I agreed with you shouldn't
know this. It was a lot of

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people saying that Mike was spot on, but he does throw in one of

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an angry fan. Should we play
it now? Now? All right,

270
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get ready to be shocked and surprised
by the language in this Epp and Mike

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longtime listener, currently a police officer
out and on the West Coast. Just

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god done listening or in the middle
of listening episode when sixty eight and it's

273
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a little disturbing with how you introduced
it. Some good advice, but at

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the same time, you know,
being in law enforcement, it's hard enough

275
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doing our job and somebody like you
spouting off about not talking to the cops.

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You know, it's good order advice. Well, what about those pedophiles?

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00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:56.880
What about those murderers? What about
those people who commit assaults? What

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00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.319
about their victims? He didn't do
them any justice, You didn't help them

279
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:06.799
at all. I might want to
rethink that next time you start thinking that

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you're going to start changing people's minds. Um, I'll continue to listen,

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but UH might want to rethink your
whole goal here, maybe in life and

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UH doing this podcast. Be neutral. Don't don't start leaning one way or

283
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the other. Be neutral. There's
a lot to this voicemail. There is

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a lot, I think. But
to me, my favorite part of the

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00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:40.119
whole thing, regardless of what you're
about to say, is I do appreciate

286
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:42.160
that he says, I will continue
to listen. I get like that.

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I guess don't continue. He's like, I have all these feelings, but

288
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god damn, your show is so
good. I'm gonna keep listening. Anyway.

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Did you find it interesting that he
said I'm a I'm currently a police

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officer, as if he won't be
for long. I'm not good at it

291
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:07.240
that he I don't understand somebody that
listens to a show and tell somebody what

292
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:11.240
they should be saying. That's a
good point. You know, you listen.

293
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You when you listen to something,
you listen to it, then you

294
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go, that's an interesting you know, I don't you better think about what

295
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:29.119
you're saying. Your whole life goal, that's his Mike's whole life goal was

296
00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:34.599
not to get murderers, rapists,
and pedophiles out of prison. As he

297
00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:38.599
was saying, yeah, you know, he wasn't going against their families.

298
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He was saying the guy that didn't
do it, that went in and talked

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to the police because he thought it
was the right thing to do it.

300
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Actually, there's a different way you
should do this. Yeah, And he

301
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is a policeman. Should have said, hey, yeah, you know what,

302
00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:57.759
you should do it the right way
if you're innocent. It was an

303
00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:03.880
interesting part of the voicemail where he
even cops to the fact, oh punintended

304
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:07.039
cops of the fact that it was
good advice, right, But also,

305
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why would you tell people that,
Well, he was the thing murders,

306
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:18.920
rapists and pedophiles are not going to
tell the truth. Well, yeah,

307
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.680
well that's what they Well you told
them to lie. Yeah, how why

308
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:26.200
would you tell them to lie?
I hate to tell you, they are

309
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not telling the truth to beginning with
So I was, it was some very

310
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interesting things, and I just I
didn't I didn't like him. He was

311
00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.279
going at Mike kind of in a
weird way, right A little bit.

312
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:41.680
Yeah, I think so it was. This is the one sort of negative

313
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:47.640
ish call that gets played, so
obviously a piece of it struck a chord

314
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:48.759
with Mike. Do you think he
was a cop? I don't even think

315
00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.160
he was a cop. That's really
funny too. I think I guess anyone

316
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.599
could call and leave a voicemail.
I should do that because he could have

317
00:22:55.599 --> 00:23:00.400
been a security guard. That's true. I'm currently uh, watch keeping watch

318
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:07.000
over the men's room bathroom in the
CBS Radford lot, you know, keeping

319
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:11.279
watch over the men's bathroom, And
let me tell you a lot of people

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00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.920
are dribbling on the floor. You
don't want to know the kind of people

321
00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:19.359
I've met Little Dick, no need
but little Dick man. Um. Yeah.

322
00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:26.039
I think Mic responds to that kind
of stuff the way I respond to

323
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:30.640
it. It fight. It sends
a like my hair on my book.

324
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.079
I'm like, that's not what I
was trying to do. Yeah, why

325
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:40.440
are you so dumb? Well,
thankfully this episode exists because it allowed him

326
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:45.480
to sort of expand on these issues. Sure did, and his buddy with

327
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:51.480
his fantastic voice, just comes flying
and yep, Charles Adams. Charles Adam,

328
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:55.279
as stated, was on a previous
episode of Sword and Scale. Rewind.

329
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I forgot he was in the COVID
episode, but I guess that was

330
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when people had most recently heard his
voice. I was like four episodes ago

331
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:04.880
or something like that. Something like
that. Yeah, And it was really

332
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:12.960
really interesting to listen to everybody talking
about COVID, talking about the written House

333
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:19.359
trial, all these things back then
versus how different narratives have changed, and

334
00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:22.400
how all these things are viewed now
through the lens of I don't know,

335
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:26.400
like a year or you know,
maybe six months. I'm not sure exactly

336
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:30.160
how long ago this one was released, but I'm always fascinated. And that's

337
00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:32.599
part of why I love doing the
show so much, is you get to

338
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:36.440
kind of hear back on that little
window in time that it really wasn't that

339
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:38.359
long ago. It wasn't that long
ago, but just enough that we know

340
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:45.000
more, right. I wonder I
would love to get Charles Adams his take

341
00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:49.720
on what the verdict was that was
exactly what I was thinking too. And

342
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:53.160
I'm sure we could listen to his
his iHeartRadio show. I'm sure he talked

343
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:56.519
just right now. I don't have
his number. No, we should call

344
00:24:56.599 --> 00:24:59.759
him what we should? Let We
just said, let's let's send him a

345
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.960
text message and not our some sort
of message because he says, um,

346
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:10.519
he gives his Instagram away big Daddy
law or something. Oh yeah, so

347
00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:14.599
we should send him a message and
just ask him and then one day we'll

348
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:17.480
just put it on here. Yeah, because I am curious too if his

349
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:22.640
opinion of it changed. I do
not know him at all. I do

350
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.920
know Mark Garrigus, who is like
an attorney, a defense attorney, very

351
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.839
famous celebrity defense attorney. Was he
Michael Jackson's he was, and also Scott

352
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:36.839
Peterson's weekwn Oh, he did have
a real tough week astle. He represented

353
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:38.559
Jesse Smollett. His firm did as
well. So that's a really, really

354
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.720
tough week for him. And by
the way, we are pre taping this

355
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.519
episode, so we're talking about was
a couple of months ago, or maybe

356
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.920
a month ago. But it's interesting
hearing him. I was in Chicago when

357
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:55.319
that came down, and I would
not have Subway the whole week because oh

358
00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:59.759
man, you're not getting shit kick
because I need to buy a sandwich again.

359
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:03.200
Very strange times. Anyway, I
bring it up to say he does

360
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:07.119
a show called A Reasonable Doubt where
they comment on legal cases. All the

361
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:11.759
names Adam Curley know, it's funny, strange, gather around. Let me

362
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:17.039
tell you guys another story. Um, but Mark, who represents some pretty

363
00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:22.160
scummy people. It is interesting his
position on these cases. It very rarely

364
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:27.279
shifts. You know, he'll he
knows what he when he is broadcasting to

365
00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:32.640
the world he feels is not going
to change. I don't want to speak

366
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:34.960
for him, but that's sort of
my observation. But once believes he believes

367
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:40.000
I think so. And it's kind
of interesting because that bringing it back to

368
00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:47.079
the episode is what Mike is saying
the detectives. Do you and I talked

369
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:52.519
on one sixty eight about why would
these interrogators be treating this person like this?

370
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They've made that choice and they're gonna
stick with it, right, I

371
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.160
thought, and I said out loud
that maybe it was like quotas, you

372
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:06.119
know, things that we weren't aware
of. But what Mike brought up or

373
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what Charles brought up maybe it was
Charlie's who brings it up in this episode,

374
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which I hadn't really thought about,
is just the idea that these police

375
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officers have already made up their mind
and this is their evidence. It led

376
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:22.119
them to this person, and so
therefore this must be right, right,

377
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:30.960
which is this is when they start
using the read yeah, read technique whatever

378
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:38.880
how interrogators that the training behind the
interrogation method. I know, I get

379
00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:42.480
it that you Okay, let's go
back one second. Where were we just

380
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:48.039
talking about? The guy told Mike
to be neutral? Right? Yeah,

381
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.240
Well shouldn't you be neutral as a
cop? Oh? Yeah, see,

382
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:56.640
ye'd want you want the podcaster to
be fucking neutral, but you don't care

383
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:02.039
that the fucking cops are. Yeah, like blows my mind. I get

384
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:06.480
the same way with when when whether
you like these politicians or not, when

385
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:10.319
they do crazy things and they don't
really get punished, but then you see

386
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:12.920
a comedian say something stupid and he
gets he gets boned. I was like,

387
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:18.559
I'm like, where did the twist
happen? Where do we doesn't make

388
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:23.599
sense? Yeah. I will also
say that I took umbrage with the idea

389
00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:29.519
of being neutral because I feel like
Sword and Scale and maybe people will think

390
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.160
I'm super naive for saying it,
but I think it's a very neutral show

391
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.000
where it is telling you the facts
of this case that happened. It's it's

392
00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:41.160
journalistic reporting on the case, but
it's gotta have it's gotta have an opinion.

393
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.160
Mike will say the things that are
on his mind. I guess you

394
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.839
could say that's the show. I
guess that is part of the show,

395
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.400
as he's going to inject his thought
into it. But it's not a news

396
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:56.480
story. Yeah, he's not doing
he's not telling you the news. He's

397
00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:00.359
telling you a story of his opinion. Yeah, all right, but he's

398
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:03.039
sound points being undone here. But
he's got the facts in it. He's

399
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:07.279
got the facts in it. But
he's got you know, he says,

400
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:10.039
I don't know what the fuck this
guy was up to? You know.

401
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:12.119
Yeah, like those kind of things. He gives his opinion, but it's

402
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:17.680
neutral. He lets you make your
own decision. I think that more often

403
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:22.079
than not, it's it's him saying, here's what we know. You make

404
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.279
your own decision if this was the
right thing to do or not right,

405
00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:29.880
which I think I don't I think
that falls. I know you blame the

406
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.200
victim every time, but well sure, but he lets you decide whether you

407
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:37.599
blame the victim or the perpetrator.
By the way, let me just tease

408
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:40.640
next week's episode, Kevin Bacon murder. Oh my god, I got a

409
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:44.839
whole victim blaming thing lined up for
you for that one fault. I learned

410
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.160
some things that I can't unlearn.
I can't wait to share that with you.

411
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:52.720
I'll have to wait for another week. Eight degrees of Bacon. That's

412
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:57.720
gonna be good. Uh. You
mentioned you mentioned the read technique. Would

413
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:04.079
you like to hear a robot?
Nope, tell you about the retechnique.

414
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:11.559
I would love to hear when Mike
said, here's goes. Here's a YouTube,

415
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:18.039
But I'm like, that's the worst
YouTube. Can I get not get

416
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:19.960
more listeners? If this is what
the bot can get? That man.

417
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:22.880
I don't know if you know this, but there's actually a sword and scale

418
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:30.720
robot rewind where somebody has transcribed our
show. It's just two robot stock all

419
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.319
right. I captured a clip.
We do not need to listen to more

420
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:36.920
than five seconds of it, but
it is pretty funny. Anyway, what

421
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:41.960
is the ring technique. The reing
technique is a method of interrogating suspects in

422
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.839
a crime. It is used by
many police forces around the world, and

423
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.480
is particularly popular in the United States. I'm stopping there. I love it

424
00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:57.680
because he just sounds like a nasal, a nasally Ashburger's kid. It goes

425
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:03.559
on in the next one. It's
illegal in many countries, right, and

426
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:08.680
that's all that needs to be Yeah, I totally agree. Can I just

427
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.960
say, by the way, Mike, if you're listening, I'm available for

428
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.559
any vo that you need for sort
scale. Please let me read that.

429
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.759
No, not go to a robot. I will fucking read the read method.

430
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.119
Okay, I could do it.
I could do it dramatically however you

431
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:26.160
want. I'll do different takes.
I'll do my version of Mike when they're

432
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:27.759
sending us. Oh, people really
didn't like that last one. We gotta

433
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:37.119
keep that budget down on the use
that YouTube voice. Yeah. I also

434
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:41.400
was getting flashes of episode twenty,
which you know as the puppeteer who ate

435
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:44.519
the baby. Soon as I heard
it, I was just like, this

436
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:48.839
is episode twenty is what they sent
me to audition again? Yeah, And

437
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.599
as soon as I had this.
I just had just cold sweat lying in

438
00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:55.000
bed. No, no, I
thought we were gonna have to do that

439
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:59.279
one. Yeah. Not the robot
voices, anything but coming at me.

440
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:02.559
They're all coming out. Now.
I thought it was unique, not unique.

441
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:07.559
I thought it was an interesting thing
to say that the read method is

442
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:15.960
perhaps more immoral than the good cop
Bad cop technique. Now, I never

443
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:21.119
really thought of the good cop bad
cop technique as being immoral. I guess

444
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:25.359
yeah, because if you're doing it
right, you got the good cop who

445
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:30.799
is scary, well, not the
scary one, the bad scary. Yeah,

446
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:32.640
yeah, the good cop is.
By the way, I got a

447
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:37.640
little freaky when Charles told the story. I went and I told him it's

448
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.240
twelve of your old daughter looked a
little bit older than you was. I'm

449
00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:44.759
like, what the fuck is going
on here? First the robot voice,

450
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:49.119
now this? Yeah? Um,
anyway, I just I don't know,

451
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:52.079
did you ever think of good cop
bad cop as really Like? I just

452
00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:55.319
thought that was that's how you did
That's how you did it. Yeah,

453
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:58.960
Like, what if you're not going
to do the read method and you're not

454
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:02.519
going to do you can't waterboard,
what are you supposed to do? Hey,

455
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:07.160
did you do it? Yeah,
just like direct questioning it. All

456
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:09.839
right, well sorry, and he
say, didn't do it. We can

457
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:15.599
go now kiss closed? Did you? Um? They say, He says,

458
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:21.680
there's a lady that calls in and
says that thank god, the read

459
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:27.759
UH technique isn't one hundred percent.
It's got to be uh as well as

460
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:32.200
something else has to be with it. Um, like some sort of evidence

461
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:34.920
has to be with it. It
can't. You just can't say, hey,

462
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:38.480
I did it right, I believe, I believe that person, I

463
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:42.559
agree with that person, I agree
that was But at the same time,

464
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:45.960
you're like, well, how do
how do they actually get people to say

465
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:50.119
they did it they didn't do it
and then find evidence that they did it,

466
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:55.279
Like it's there must be so like
slivery, It can't. It can't

467
00:33:55.319 --> 00:34:00.160
be like these Oh my goodness,
I said, like the guys in one

468
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:07.039
sixty eight were just assholes lazy,
But there's got to be sometimes where it's

469
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:12.440
so close they're not being assholes,
are lazy, they're really close to being

470
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:15.599
right, but they're not. Yeah, well, of course those would be

471
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:17.599
like the exception that proves the rule
or whatever, like I'm sure you're right

472
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:21.639
that has to happen, and I
just feel really bad for those people,

473
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:24.800
you know, when it's that close. And actually, one of the interesting

474
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:30.400
statistics that Mike brings up, I'm
reading here forty two to fifty five percent

475
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:37.119
of interrogated victims will confess, and
the question is are that many actually guilty?

476
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:44.960
Now, I again, it's like
sort of the prejudice of the idea

477
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:49.960
of if you're sitting in that chair, you most likely did it. And

478
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:52.840
I'm not saying that's true or not, but that's the sort of mental prejudice

479
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:57.480
that you have to kind of consider
of whether or not you think are fifty

480
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:01.000
percent of the people a coin toss
of whether or not that person actually did

481
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:07.079
it. I would like to think
that closer to eighty percent of the people

482
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:09.840
who did it are being questioned correctly, right, you know, Like I

483
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:15.039
don't I don't want to think that
eighty percent of them are innocent. I

484
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:22.440
don't believe that it's if it is
true, that's yeah. But I also

485
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:30.000
I also think it's got to do
with um socio economics of where that's kind

486
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:36.719
of happening. M you know,
might be easier if everybody's just hanging out

487
00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:39.280
at the same place and there as
a murder happened R and you just kind

488
00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:45.400
of grab one guy that's around that
may look like the guy that did it.

489
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:49.199
Yeah. Well again, going back
to one sixty eight, that was

490
00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:52.280
sort of the point that they were
saying, was that even though there are

491
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:58.079
people who are in like bad socioeconomic
areas or people who aren't mentally you know,

492
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:01.159
developed as others, those people are
not the only people that this impacts,

493
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:07.039
and it really does impact just your
regular everyday person as well, and

494
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:09.039
more than you think. I just
I just I don't. I didn't mean

495
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:12.320
know what affect him. I just
mean the chances of it happened, just

496
00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:16.000
happened to be more. Yeah,
in that when it's in a poorer area,

497
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:21.920
something else that we didn't get,
something else that we didn't consider last

498
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:23.679
time we talked about this case.
Thank god we talked about it again.

499
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:28.159
Glower bringing it makes it so much
easier. Yeah, oh my god,

500
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:34.719
next week on one seventy, talk
about this again. That's right. Something

501
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:39.280
that is said in this episode though, is it's hard to see law enforcement

502
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:45.599
as the bad guys, which I
thought was something that I kind of agree

503
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:50.239
with it and kind of didn't agree
with you make your own reportation a reputation.

504
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:55.079
Yes, right, So if if
the police department in my town keeps

505
00:36:55.119 --> 00:37:00.840
doing bad things, they're seen as
the bad doors. Yeah. But when

506
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:06.760
you only have like a limited experience
with somebody, you know, like you

507
00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:09.639
what I mean, I'm sorry when
you are when you are. Let's let's

508
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:13.760
go back to getting pulled over.
Oh yeah, which is one of my

509
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:16.159
favorite pastors. I love it.
I just rolled my window down a little

510
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:20.360
bit. You can't pull me over. You're having a I'm gonna call it

511
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.199
a flash interaction with a police officer. And it doesn't mean you flash your

512
00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:27.599
junk at them, put your pants
back on. But what I'm saying is,

513
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:35.119
when you briefly meet that officer,
I think most people's instinct is that

514
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.719
that guy's a police officer. He's
not a bad guy. Right now,

515
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:42.559
maybe we live in an era an
hour people believe I self strongly in the

516
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:45.880
opposite. But to the point of
this, this thing I'm bringing up from

517
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:52.360
the episode, it takes It's not
natural, at least for me, you

518
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:57.280
know, white kid in suburbia to
just automatically see a police officer and be

519
00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:00.960
like that person has bad intentions.
I I agree with you. I still

520
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:06.199
think most people that become police officers
are good people. Have I had nothing

521
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:08.760
but great run ins with the police. No. I got pulled over one

522
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:13.320
day while riding my bike in my
neighborhood. Yes, down the wrong way

523
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:19.119
of one way street. Heard all
about it. Yeah. And then another

524
00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:22.840
time I was at the airport picking
up my sister and a parking cop went

525
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:25.440
off, I mean like you wouldn't
believe really, And I'm just looking at

526
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:30.239
him like, oh, okay,
you don't want to be working today,

527
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:32.920
and your shit cop, and that's
why they can put you on parking right.

528
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.920
Yeah. Yeah, So I've had
I've had that those situations. But

529
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:39.239
do I see a cop car and
go that guy inside of that car's a

530
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:43.360
fucking duck. No, That's not
what I do, you know, right,

531
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:47.840
It's it's depends on the action.
But I think I don't think my

532
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:52.440
life's in danger when it comes to
a bad cop. Where there are people

533
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:57.199
out there that they know their licensed
danger because of a bad cop. Yeah,

534
00:38:57.239 --> 00:39:02.239
And what I think this part of
the episode is saying is when it

535
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:08.760
applies to false confessions, people like
in a jury listening to this case,

536
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:15.840
are not prone to think that a
police officer was being bad and got a

537
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:19.639
false confession, They're way more likely
to be like, well, this was

538
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:23.400
just a confession that this very skilled
police officer got out of somebody. And

539
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:27.039
so that's what makes it kind of
a complicated issue. Well, there are

540
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.880
some people that listen to Sword and
Scale that would flip out and think why

541
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:36.480
they would never do that. Yeah, I'm on this jury listening and you're

542
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:43.039
a police officer. You should be
neutral. Mike points out, I shouldn't

543
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.159
say, he points out, do
you think you should be neutral? I

544
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:49.079
think there should be neutral, right, I mean I do think so for

545
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:53.599
the most part, there's there's always
until until Oh yeah, sure, just

546
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:57.960
yes, the universal until Yeah.
Right, Well that was kind of gonna

547
00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:02.760
say. It's like there's a context
for everything. But I don't want officers

548
00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:07.599
walking in with a fucking itchy trigger
finger, you know. But I do

549
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:12.039
think they should enter a dangerous situation
on alert. I don't want them to

550
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:15.199
be neutral and just be like,
we're walking into this this drug lord's warehouse,

551
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:21.800
like I would like some jo Yeah, like there's some realism right to

552
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:25.519
it. I want them to be
prepared. But I do also think that

553
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:34.840
they should be able to entertain the
idea of that these chairs suck. It's

554
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:39.000
kind off the circulation of leg I'm
like, what the fuck? Sorry,

555
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:45.239
people, I am not neutral about
these chairs we want. Don't say the

556
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:50.360
brand name. Uh, don't buy
them. That's all I was I gonna

557
00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:53.079
say. Especially if you have if
you have a radio show in your closet,

558
00:40:54.559 --> 00:41:00.519
you're not getting these chairs. But
me, I don't. I just

559
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:07.199
the episode before I just thought was
a great episode about giving people information they

560
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:12.639
didn't know. Was I thrilled about
the title? I don't know. I

561
00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:17.079
don't care. It's a podcast about
murder. All the titles have something that

562
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:21.119
say, hey, I should listen
to this. Don't talk to the police

563
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:25.039
makes people listen to it. So
I don't get the uproar about it because

564
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:30.119
there was no information in there.
Like Mike wasn't saying don't doubt the police,

565
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:32.880
no matter what they saying. He's
saying, Hey, if somebody in

566
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.880
your house dies and you're there,
you're gonna be assumed to maybe have done

567
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:42.960
something with it, so you might
want to have somebody with you or not

568
00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:45.840
talk to them. Yeah, that
is all he's saying, and he's not

569
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:49.119
saying, Hey, you know what, if you're gonna rate people, don't

570
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:52.239
talk to the cops. They already
know that. They already fucking know that.

571
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:55.239
Yeah, but what about the victims. The victims, they shouldn't talk

572
00:41:55.280 --> 00:42:00.320
to anybody else because they already did. Mike said in this step so that

573
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:02.000
he said, Oh, Mike,
he spent a night in jail after getting

574
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:06.119
pulled over A little disappointed to him. He said that he cut an old

575
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:08.679
person off, and then they followed
him for seven miles and then cut two.

576
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:12.679
He's in prison. I don't know
what happened. He said he got

577
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:14.679
a dui. That's what I thought. Did he say that? I don't

578
00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:15.079
even know if he even said that. I think he said. He just

579
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:19.840
sort of implied. I say,
yeah, but I didn't understand why he

580
00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:22.039
got a dui because he cut somebody
off. I think it was road rage.

581
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.039
I think he had road rage.
I mean, I want to just

582
00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:30.719
theorize and speculate. I just see
him not having a horn in his car.

583
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:32.480
I just see him with a duck
and squeezing the duck like a little

584
00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:37.400
rubber ducky Ham, have you ever
spent a night in jail? No?

585
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:42.000
Me, neither I do not like
we're such a good boys. We all

586
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:45.159
have the good boys of this podcast. I bet you. I bet you

587
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:52.039
Stephanie Wilder crazy or whatever name.
Oh no, don't say that. I

588
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.480
bet you she's been to jail.
Um, have you ever been like just

589
00:42:54.679 --> 00:43:00.800
arrested. No. I came very
very close to it one and getting pulled

590
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:06.960
over. Why, I don't know
how yeah? No, no, yeah

591
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:08.800
I did. But I was thinking
more in my head of if I could

592
00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:12.519
potentially get in trouble for this.
I don't think I can. It's legal

593
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:15.199
in California. Now I had weed
in my car. Oh yeah, you're

594
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:22.159
totally fine. And un remember Charles
Adams in Jamaica it was like that times

595
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:27.400
ten. How funny was that?
Was that? I don't do anything that

596
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:30.079
you shouldn't do. I'm a legal
person. I wanted Jamaica and they brought

597
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:32.599
me a garbage bag full of part
and I'm like, well, how long

598
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:37.880
were you there for? No?
Oh? Man? Uh So, anyway,

599
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:42.119
I got pulled over and the officer
was like, and it was literally

600
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:45.039
this fast he went, I pulled
you over for speeding? What's that smell?

601
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:50.559
No, it was like one sentence
and I said, that's marijuana.

602
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.159
And he said, uh, you
know, where is it? And I

603
00:43:54.199 --> 00:44:00.599
said in my mouth at the time, I had one of those they're called

604
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:02.960
it's called a one hitter, basically
looks like a little metal cigarette and then

605
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:07.480
there's like a little tiny they called
baseball bats or something. I never heard

606
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:10.760
that. Oh there you go,
that's clever. Anyway. I was just

607
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:14.360
very honest with him. I was
like, it's right here. If I

608
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:16.719
could, I'll reach into my glove
box or whatever, I'll show it to

609
00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:21.360
you. And he took it,
took it from me, and he sailed

610
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:25.079
me a step out of the car
and I sat on the street with my

611
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:31.000
life just flashing before my eyes.
And he then said I get back in

612
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:34.199
the car. And as I got
back in the car, I heard him

613
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:37.320
close my trunk and he said,
you should really take care of that smell.

614
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:40.400
Have a good night. Did he
give you back the one hitter?

615
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.880
And then when I got home and
I opened up the trunk of the car,

616
00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:46.239
he put the one hitter back in
the car. So that was very

617
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:50.519
nice of him. He did not
have to do that. That's the kind

618
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:52.920
of policing that should have should be
out there. Yeah, it was.

619
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:57.400
It takes us to the next thing
when when he starts talking about drugs and

620
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.320
stuff like that, Sure, let's
talk about it. What do you do

621
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:06.599
drugs? Well, I don't.
I think that's the stupidest thing to say

622
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:12.800
something to somebody. Yeah, dare, Yeah, don't do drugs. Yeah,

623
00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:15.239
what are drugs? Right? Because
that's usually when you find out don't

624
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:19.239
do drugs. You don't even know
drugs exist yet? Yeah, so you

625
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:24.199
fucks don't get blow jobs? Holy
shit, those are great? Yeah,

626
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:34.159
and so are drugs. Um,
I I'm kind of I think prohibition didn't

627
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:37.239
work. Oh are you fucking kidding
me? Not at all? Yeah,

628
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:43.000
So why try it with something else? Yeah? Tried? You know,

629
00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:45.719
the definition of crazy doing the same
thing over and over again. That's exactly

630
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:50.760
what's going on. So let's go
through it. Which drugs should be legal?

631
00:45:51.159 --> 00:45:52.719
All of them? Well, there
you go, folks, thanks for

632
00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:58.679
listening. Good night, Okay,
all of them? Heroin? Yes,

633
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:04.000
it's it's legal. Yeah, it's
a pain pill already here in California,

634
00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:07.719
it basically is legal. Well,
it's everywhere. It's like it's it's it's

635
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:09.559
in pain pills. Kids are getting
addicted to it. It's sixteen years old

636
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:14.199
and then ending up on heroin because
we're working cranking them out and they've never

637
00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:17.480
felt anything like that in their life
after wrecking their knee while playing sports,

638
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:23.119
and they're the best athlete ever.
And the benefit of legalizing it is to

639
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:30.280
what just to normalize it, to
stop people from being prosecuted for bullshit charges,

640
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:32.880
Like what's the ultimate goal here?
Because I see it, You're not

641
00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:37.320
hiding it if it's legal, and
you're going to notice it and you may

642
00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:42.119
give, say to a friend,
you might do an intervention or something,

643
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:45.119
instead of not knowing that your friend
does heroin, yeah, and finding out

644
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:47.920
that they oded, and you're like, what the fuck that's true now that

645
00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:52.880
you're saying it, Because it is. Drug culture is very much like a

646
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:54.800
don't ask, don't test kind of
thing, and so you're right, it

647
00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:59.679
is just so shocking when suddenly you
hear about an overdose or something like that,

648
00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:02.400
You're like, I didn't even know
that person did drugs because everything is

649
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:06.760
shamed and you have to keep it. I'm gonna be on drugs because of

650
00:47:06.760 --> 00:47:09.519
this fucking leg After this chair,
you can move that, Mica, you

651
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:12.760
can stand, I'm gonna stand,
yeah, just do it standing. I'm

652
00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:19.280
just gonna fall down because my leg's
asleep. I'm sorry. No, Okay,

653
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:21.920
back to drugs. Yeah, no, I think it. I really

654
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:27.840
think that everything should be legal.
I don't understand why people are making meth,

655
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:32.599
Like, what is how did we
get there that people are making meth

656
00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:37.840
in their in their garage? Yeah? Well, there's a historical documentary it's

657
00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:44.760
called Breaking Bad. It's a six
season documentary and it's all about that incredible

658
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:51.320
true story of a chemist who starts
making meth to make money for his family

659
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:54.840
because he's dying of cancer. Right, it's really it's really entertaining, surprisingly,

660
00:47:55.079 --> 00:48:02.920
But you're right. I don't know. I was stupid. I was

661
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:06.800
just I was totally thinking of that
show and how fucking great it is.

662
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:07.559
I was just like, oh man, they made a lot of drugs,

663
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:13.000
um, but why? Why?
Is just desperation? It's money? Like

664
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:15.639
No, I'm not saying why do
people make I'm like, how did we

665
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:17.760
get there? Yeah? What drug? Like? What drug was there?

666
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:22.559
The people started recreating? Like that
had to be There's no way, there's

667
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:27.119
no way. Jesse, Bob Jesse
just came up with that at a Walmart

668
00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:30.559
one day. So what's he reproducing? Yeah? You know, I mean,

669
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:32.480
I just Jesse, I don't know, but my guess is something like

670
00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:37.239
cocaine seems to be pretty speed.
Speed. Yeah, they're, they're,

671
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:40.719
they're they've tried, they've tried to
remake speed, and they've come up with

672
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:45.360
meth, which is worse than stores, which is kind of fentan al too.

673
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:51.440
Right, Yeah, I think so
which has the worst business model ever?

674
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:55.199
Kill your clients. Yeah, I'm
gonna take you down. You're gonna

675
00:48:55.199 --> 00:49:05.599
try this once. People are worried
that legalizing it will corrupt everybody, like

676
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:07.119
if cocaine. I mean, I'm
not saying I believe this. I know

677
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:10.760
I'm I'm angry about it. Yeah, now you're standing up. Oh god,

678
00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:15.760
I'm not angry. But I think
that's that is generally the argument too,

679
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:20.840
Like why we don't legalize heroin because
if we legalize it, then Bobby

680
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:27.920
Jill Jesse can raise a microphone by
twisting the goddamn thing that I'm like,

681
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:31.920
I'm not gonna do that. Sorry, people apologize. I just think people

682
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:37.360
are worried that if it's legal,
Like, for example, marijuana is now

683
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:43.519
legal in California. Now there are
way less cigarette smokers, but now there

684
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:47.480
are a whole lot of teenagers smoking
marijuana and parents aren't happy about that.

685
00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:52.800
They don't they don't seem to shut
them down after when they're they're doing their

686
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:57.159
little hits off their little machine that
tastes like bubblegum. Like they're not concerned

687
00:49:57.159 --> 00:50:01.079
about that. It's bizarre the shit
that we chase down. Yeah, Like,

688
00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:06.159
you know, you smoke pot when
you're a kid. Now you're freaking

689
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:08.840
out about your kids smoking pot,
But you're fine with them having this little

690
00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:13.639
thing in their room that you can't
smell and it just creates a smoke and

691
00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:19.599
they're and they're getting high off and
they're getting addicted to nicotine is way more

692
00:50:19.599 --> 00:50:23.679
addictive than most of these drugs.
Yeah, yeah, I agree. What

693
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:25.760
do you think about that whole thing? And I think it's a New Zealand

694
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:30.719
where they're going to just keep raising
the non smoking age. Have you heard

695
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:32.880
about this at all? No?
That's interesting. Okay, So in New

696
00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:36.679
Zealand, they're trying to outlaw smoking
and the way that they're going to do

697
00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:44.199
that is by saying if you are
fifteen, you're not allowed to buy cigarettes,

698
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:49.239
and basically each year the following year
it will be if you're sixteen,

699
00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:51.639
you can't. If you're seventeen,
you can't, and the ideas that there'll

700
00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:55.960
be a whole generation of people who
are never aged out of that restriction.

701
00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:01.840
I believe that it's the same as
alcohol, is the same as drugs.

702
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:06.960
You're gonna try it if you want
to try it, Yeah, I think

703
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:09.599
do I think it should be twenty
one. Yeah, you shouldn't be able

704
00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:13.960
to buy tobacco until you're twenty one. It's I honestly think you shouldn't be

705
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:20.760
able to twenty five until you're you
know, I think you're still informative in

706
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:27.559
twenty one to twenty five. You're
still doing things just because. Yeah,

707
00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:30.199
the best parties of your life,
Ian are gonna be from the ages of

708
00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:34.000
eighteen to twenty three. But I
can't tell you. But I don't think

709
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:39.039
they need cigarettes like I don't.
I don't see where cigarettes help any party.

710
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:43.679
Sure, you know, yeah,
I'm not a cigarette smoker, but

711
00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:51.519
I say no, it's got a
good saying, but cigarettes. Uh.

712
00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:55.719
But I do believe. I do
believe you. I don't think making anything

713
00:51:57.079 --> 00:52:00.599
illegal stops it. And I'm also
I'm gonna put I'm gonna put this at

714
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:06.599
you Okay, everything's legal now,
right. Those people that are bad,

715
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:12.000
what do they do now, because
they don't suddenly get upstanding jobs, right

716
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:16.239
like? They do bad stuff because
that's what they can do. Mm.

717
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:21.679
Yeah, there's always going to be
a new envelope rush. So but it's

718
00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:23.599
not a bad thing then, So
then we shouldn't legalize things because now we're

719
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:28.880
just making that envelope harder, you
know what I mean, Like the more

720
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:35.119
we legalize, the crazier people have
to get to break the law. I

721
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.880
guess. So I'm just conducting a
thought experience. I don't. I don't,

722
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:42.760
I really don't. We're a podcast
that talks about murder, so we

723
00:52:42.840 --> 00:52:47.159
cannot solve this, that's true.
But I do should murder be legal?

724
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:52.119
No? Okay, No, I
don't know, just asking Godian, just

725
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:55.480
asking no, hold on, let
me think about it. I agree it

726
00:52:55.519 --> 00:53:00.199
you, I don't think. I
think when he says, if you the

727
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:05.360
things you do on drugs are still
a crime, you can't blame drugs.

728
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:09.440
I also feel that's the same way
when somebody does something and then they have

729
00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:15.239
mental health problems, you can't blame
that for the bad things you've done to

730
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:21.280
another person. Yeah, so you
know, if you want to get high,

731
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:23.039
as if you want to get wrecked, have fun to do it.

732
00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:28.480
But if you hurt somebody else,
you're responsible. That's good. I think

733
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:31.079
that's fair. Yeah, it's the
same idea. Yeah, like you can't

734
00:53:31.639 --> 00:53:36.599
you're not free from consequences. Said
something like that before. Yeah, when

735
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:38.159
it comes like freedom of speech,
freedom of speech a speech, but not

736
00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:42.360
freedom from consequence. Yes, I
get that. I can understand that on

737
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:45.440
a certain level. And then I
also, you know, I want to

738
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:51.159
mention they bring up with the Kyle
Rittenhouse thing, and I felt like those

739
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:57.679
four people went to something with that
they knew there was going to be actions

740
00:53:57.719 --> 00:54:01.960
and reactions, and they're guilty,
all of them. They knew what was

741
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:08.320
going on there, and they I'm
not saying I stay home. Yeah,

742
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:13.400
don't take a gun to uh,
And they are apparently more than just hated

743
00:54:13.519 --> 00:54:16.760
took a gun there. You know, don't take a gun to something because

744
00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:21.679
once you have something, there's going
to be a reaction. Yeah. Yeah,

745
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:25.599
the whole vigilante justice is UH.
And that's interesting to talk about that

746
00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:30.519
in the context of this episode where
we're talking about whether or not cops can

747
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:36.480
do their job right correctly. But
if everyone's going to go out and be

748
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:40.119
a fucking vigilante, you know,
I don't know that. That's not that's

749
00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:44.920
not great, it's not it's he
talks about, we just need to be

750
00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:47.400
able to well. I think people
not having guns helps your job more.

751
00:54:49.159 --> 00:54:53.199
I think people get We know that, we know the statistics. Innocent people

752
00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:58.960
get killed a lot more than you
know the people that they're getting saved.

753
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:02.920
Sure, yeah, I mean it's
such an insanely complicated issue. It's crazy,

754
00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:07.079
it's it's wild. I want to
talk about one other Nope, part

755
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:12.239
of this episode that was brought up. Damn, that's all I'm gonna say

756
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:17.519
about that. About forty minutes into
the episode, Charles Adams says the following,

757
00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:22.000
you know I can trust on my
show where you the young woman that

758
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:27.400
was kidnapped and raped and murdered for
while jogging in Arkansas last weekend. I

759
00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:30.400
mean, there is true evil out
there. So naturally I thought, I

760
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:34.559
gotta look that shit up. I
want to know what story that is,

761
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:37.760
because maybe we haven't done it on
Sword and Scale. Maybe it would be

762
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:40.480
a good Sword and Scale episode.
Such a producer at all times, let

763
00:55:40.519 --> 00:55:44.880
me tell you about that story.
I'm gonna sit back down. You tell

764
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:49.920
me a tale, all right.
First of all, the killer who who

765
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:55.679
did in fact kidnap and rape and
murder this poor woman who was a jogger.

766
00:55:55.960 --> 00:56:02.920
This guy's name is Quake as an
earthquake, quake Llewellen. He after

767
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:08.519
Dougluellen from the real People's Court.
I was thinking Llewellen from no country from

768
00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:14.000
from this guy, and this was
part of the headline. I didn't look

769
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:17.159
this part up any further. An
award winning farmer, That's what killer is.

770
00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:21.559
The killer is in fact an award
winning farmer. He was He loves

771
00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:25.079
to put things in the ground.
Proven incompetent to stand trial. He was

772
00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:30.039
competent at the time of his alleged
crimes. He's charged with capital murder,

773
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:35.400
rape, kidnapping, and abuse of
a corpse. Oh no, he did

774
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:38.480
it while she was dead. That's
that's what that means. This woman was

775
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:46.199
last confirmed cited from a ups driver
while she was jogging, and Llewellen,

776
00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:51.000
who had known her prior to the
crime and had even joined a Facebook group

777
00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:55.440
dedicated to finding the missing woman.
He became a suspect because he went to

778
00:56:55.480 --> 00:57:01.000
the police station to talk to the
investigators about seeing her the afternoon that she

779
00:57:01.159 --> 00:57:07.119
vanished, and what he said was
that he was driving around checking his wells.

780
00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:13.039
I guess he owns wells Jacob ol
Wales. He spotted her walking along

781
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:15.519
a gravel road. He said he
drove past her, then turned his truck

782
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:19.079
around, and then when he turned
the truck around, he didn't see her

783
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:23.760
anymore. Quote, I guess because
the gravel road was still dusty. Then

784
00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:29.800
he says that he thinks she may
have crossed the road, at which point

785
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:32.960
he struck her with this truck.
Oh shit, Now, I don't know

786
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:37.639
if that's true. That reminds me
a lot of somebody not that we know

787
00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:42.360
from the show. Yeah, yeah, we've covered on this show before.

788
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:45.639
Ian's best friend, my god,
my buddy used to turn around and hit

789
00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:51.719
people with this car. So this
guy eventually confessed the crime. He admitted

790
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:54.360
that he later buried her in a
rice field, and then he went back

791
00:57:54.360 --> 00:57:58.679
to order what rice field? And
they don't sounded like that doesn't sound like

792
00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:02.400
award winning. He went back to
work, can grow Rice, went home,

793
00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:07.199
had supper to bed, and his
dad noticed he was acting strange,

794
00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:10.079
and that's why he told him to
go to the police to talk about it.

795
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:15.440
He said everything was just a blur. Um. He didn't He just

796
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:19.000
knows that he didn't kill her on
purpose. He fucked her on purpose,

797
00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:21.840
but not kill her on purpose.
At the time of his arrest, he

798
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:25.000
and his wife were raising her children
full time, but his wife has since

799
00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:30.320
filed for a divorce no doubt.
In October of twenty twenty, he pled

800
00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:34.840
not guilty to charges of kidnapping,
capital murder, abuse of corpse, but

801
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:39.679
in October of twenty twenty one pled
guilty yes. Prior to that plea,

802
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:44.880
The prosecutors say that had he been
convicted of capital murder, they would have

803
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:47.480
sought the death penalty. Now it's
just life in prison without parole. I

804
00:58:47.480 --> 00:58:53.599
wonder why they didn't go for um
like the death penalty even though he admitted

805
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:57.840
it. Yeah, it's got a
plea deal. Oh, he pleaded.

806
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:02.079
I think I'd say guilty. So
anyway, I just thought that was kind

807
00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:06.280
of a guild story. I had
not heard anything about that one. He

808
00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:07.320
just kind of like skipped over too. It was just like, well,

809
00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:09.400
you know, there's a girl in
arcs and a girl by that guy,

810
00:59:09.400 --> 00:59:13.679
which completely murderer. Anyways, let's
get back to me getting high in Jamaica.

811
00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:17.360
Yeah exactly, but I thought that
Rewan listeners might want to know the

812
00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:20.559
story that he was alluding to.
That might be a good story for you

813
00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:22.119
guys. Yeah, it could be
home to talk about too. I will

814
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:25.360
say, at least for the episodes
that I've worked on, if there's no

815
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:30.000
trial, it's way harder to find
like really good audio. I personally,

816
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:32.519
you can maybe tell episodes I've worked
on, not that I've worked on that

817
00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:36.000
many, but the ones that I
have, I got lots of juicy core

818
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:39.199
audio because that's when the people are
really given their first person testimony of like

819
00:59:39.280 --> 00:59:43.400
what happened, and that's where you
get the really juicy stuff. So it's

820
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:47.559
got to be for us to do
these episodes that it has to be an

821
00:59:47.679 --> 00:59:52.079
ending. No, not necessarily.
I mean there's been there's one. There's

822
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:57.000
in Canada. There's Highway sixteen,
the Highway of Tears. It's just all

823
00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:00.159
these girls that go missing on it, like still to this day, to

824
01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:01.960
this day, you guys should check
that out. Yeah, that's yeah,

825
01:00:01.960 --> 01:00:05.559
I'll be sure to drive kind of
No, no, don't drive there,

826
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:09.840
go up, get yourself a girl. We have to laugh at this people.

827
01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:14.199
If you don't laugh at at Jesus, it just becomes said, well,

828
01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:17.119
let's try to wrap it up here. How do we how do we

829
01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:22.039
how do we fix it? In? How do we fix it? I

830
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:28.639
world of talking or not talking to
cops? I think there's there's rules,

831
01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:30.639
you know. I hate to say
it, there's rules on both sides,

832
01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:37.519
and you got to know your rights, and um, they should people should

833
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:42.159
know. And I think what he
was saying was don't talk to cops unless

834
01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:45.119
you know what you're what you're doing. Yeah, he wasn't saying don't talk

835
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:47.079
to cops even when if they ask
you, hey, do you know where

836
01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:51.320
the nearest burger king is? You
know who was just saying? So I

837
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:57.639
think be smart, don't murder somebody. Yeah. I think even more than

838
01:00:57.679 --> 01:01:00.360
that, though, we need to
all stop being so actionary. You know

839
01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:07.679
this is this episode has become a
larger metaphor for our country way and not

840
01:01:07.719 --> 01:01:14.079
being able to have meaningful conversations and
talking about things. Everybody is just so

841
01:01:14.119 --> 01:01:19.320
set in their own mind as to
what's right and what's wrong, and everyone

842
01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:24.159
has been convinced that the other side
is morally evil and wrong and has that

843
01:01:24.199 --> 01:01:28.480
got anything to do with instant gratification
that way, that way as a society

844
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:34.800
that we like we everything we get
answered media. I mean, especially with

845
01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:39.239
social media being as immediate as it
is, everybody wants to like be the

846
01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:44.480
first one to comment on a story
or to like share their perspective or you

847
01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:46.880
know, speak their truth. I
put that in air quotes, but their

848
01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:55.559
truth th r But I don't know. I think I have been trying to

849
01:01:55.679 --> 01:02:04.360
have neutral conversations with people. It's
very difficult. You know, just listen,

850
01:02:05.239 --> 01:02:07.679
right, that's a good thing.
Just listen. If you listen,

851
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:10.440
to listen more and you can storm
out right after they're done. Sure,

852
01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:15.760
but you know, you listen,
you will find something about somebody if you

853
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:20.639
listen. Um, I had.
I was doing a show in Chicago and

854
01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:22.440
there was a guy guy in the
crowd and I said, what do you

855
01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:24.559
do? And he said, I
work in politics. I said, who

856
01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:28.559
do you work for? You wouldn't
tell me. And at the end of

857
01:02:28.519 --> 01:02:31.039
the show he came up and he
said, I was Margie Taylor Greens.

858
01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:37.679
I ran her her campaign. I
said, well, you're a bad man,

859
01:02:39.719 --> 01:02:43.000
I said, but you know,
I said, you seem like a

860
01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:45.760
nice guy. It is, you
know, I know a jo'urn you were

861
01:02:45.800 --> 01:02:51.119
in the business, you know whatever. Yeah, you know, it's just

862
01:02:51.199 --> 01:02:54.119
it's weird. You're not that person. So I think you listen to people

863
01:02:54.119 --> 01:02:58.840
and there's we all have different sides, and uh, they're they're bad things

864
01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:02.719
happen to people, and you know, it's just it's just those words that

865
01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:07.719
he talks about in it, like
those trigger words that people use. Don't

866
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:14.599
let them trigger you, you know, and and make them make them if

867
01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:20.199
somebody says something that's crazy, make
them explain it. Sure, yeah,

868
01:03:20.280 --> 01:03:23.039
don't need free to ask a follow
up question like I want to know why

869
01:03:23.079 --> 01:03:30.159
you think JFK Junior is coming back
to this grassy knoll? Why would you

870
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:32.840
land the plane here? Not in
Martha's vineyard? This makes no sense at

871
01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:37.320
all. Sure, so, well, that's a good not to go out

872
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:43.920
on Ian Where can people find you? I don't get my shit? Bind

873
01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:47.800
me on ianbag dot com, sir
ian Bag on Twitter, Ian Bag on

874
01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:52.840
Instagram, and now comedian ian Bag
on TikTok. I'm doing the TikTok.

875
01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:55.800
If you want to get on the
TikTok nice. I do some stupid things

876
01:03:55.840 --> 01:03:58.639
on there. I do a little
dancing. No, I don't know any

877
01:03:58.719 --> 01:04:02.360
dance. You should. I respond
to people's videos like the last one I

878
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:08.039
did was this guy made this concoction
and his cup holder in his car that

879
01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:15.840
turned into foam that cleans everything up, and I just look blow. Well,

880
01:04:15.880 --> 01:04:18.760
I'm on Twitter and Matt Fondeler.
You can spell that however you like,

881
01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:21.480
but hopefully spell it right. That's
all you reach me. I'm on

882
01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:26.519
another podcast. What's it about?
Well, it's about everything. Really,

883
01:04:26.840 --> 01:04:29.400
I love that a little bit of
everything. It's called the Water Quick.

884
01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:31.239
It's fantastic. Thank you. We're
gonna have you back on soon. Oh

885
01:04:31.519 --> 01:04:34.480
so again on people, I tell
them that's good. We would love to

886
01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:36.920
hear from you. Guys. Please
give us a nice review, share the

887
01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:40.599
show with your friends. If we
like it, send us a tweet.

888
01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:45.920
But you know, above all,
listen to these words. Don't be a

889
01:04:46.079 --> 01:05:00.400
douche bag sort of scale. We
would is a production of income grew any

890
01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:02.199
media. If you enjoyed the show, leave us a five star rating and

891
01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:08.000
a glowing review. No criticism please, it hurts our feelings. Be sure

892
01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:10.800
to tell your friends about us,
but not your family or co workers,

893
01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:15.039
because I'll think you're weird. Okay, that's it. Let's tell next time.

894
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:15.239
Don't be a douchebag.