WEBVTT 1 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:34.079 Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two of our series about the 2 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:38.079 unexplained death of Ed Baker. Robin, do you want to catch everyone up 3 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:41.840 on what we talked about in our previous episode. Well, this case takes 4 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:45.560 place in Houston, Texas in nineteen eighty five, and Ed Baker was the 5 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:50.719 fifty two year old millionaire chairman of an oil investment business called Vanguard International. 6 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:54.600 Edit is currently on his fourth marriage. His first wife was killed in a 7 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:58.600 car accident during the nineteen seventies. By the nineteen eighties, Ed and his 8 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:02.759 second wife had started up bait oil investment business, Vanguard, and because of 9 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:06.120 an oil boom, he has now become a millionaire. But he is going 10 00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:10.079 through some sort of midlife crisis because he has since gone through two other wives. 11 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:12.239 He's got a gambling habit, and he has been spending a lot of 12 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:18.280 his investors' money and essentially creating a Ponzi scheme where he takes money from them 13 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:23.000 and spends them on himself. But now that he's not getting as many investors 14 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.640 and there's an oil bust, the house of cars has started to collapse, 15 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:30.840 so he's facing prison time and he's been giving off hints that his life might 16 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:34.599 be in danger because he borrowed a lot of money from some criminals. One 17 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:38.560 night, he went to see his second wife and said that his life was 18 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:42.159 in danger and that he didn't have much time left. And shortly thereafter Ed 19 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:46.239 went missing, and his burned out car would be discovered in a remote field, 20 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.519 and it appeared he'd been shot, and then someone had used gasoline to 21 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:53.959 set the car on fire. But he has been burned so badly that there's 22 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:57.319 been so many theories about what happened to him. There's been speculation that he 23 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.079 might have been murdered by the people he borrowed money from, or that this 24 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:05.239 was an elaborate suicide, because it turned out he had some life insurance policies 25 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:08.319 for his family and had specifically asked them if they would pay out in the 26 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:12.919 event of a suicide, and at least one of the insurance companies told him 27 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:15.479 no. So they figured that he could have shot himself or maybe had an 28 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:20.360 accomplice who set his body on fire afterwards to try to make it look like 29 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:23.680 a murder. But another theory is that perhaps he faked his own death, 30 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:28.280 that he found in John Doe and killed him and then set the body on 31 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:31.599 fire until it was beyond recognition, and then skipped the country with all the 32 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:36.840 profits because it turned out there was millions of dollars missing from Vanguard, and 33 00:02:36.879 --> 00:02:40.080 they wondered if he might be living on the proceeds. But it's been now 34 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:45.360 thirty five years and there have not been any conclusive answers about what happened to 35 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:49.800 him. It is generally suggested that the body found in the car did belong 36 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:52.479 to ed Baker, but they have never been able to figure out if his 37 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:57.000 death was a homicide or a suicide, and it's always been shrouded in mystery. 38 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:00.520 Now, this is not one of those stories where I'm going to pretend 39 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:04.199 that the victim was a saint, as ed Baker did commit a number of 40 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:07.759 financial indiscretions prior to his death. It sounds like Ded was a decent, 41 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:12.560 law abiding man for the first part of his life, but succumbed to greed 42 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.680 once he finally attained wealth, and it seems like his success caused him to 43 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:21.479 experience some sort of weird midlife crisis, as he divorced his second wife and 44 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:23.639 went through two more marriages during the last year and a half. Of his 45 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:30.120 life and went overboard with his gambling and spending habits. Incidentally, I've always 46 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:34.199 loved Robert Stach's description of this during the Unsolved Mystery segment. As he says, 47 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:38.759 quote, he began to indulge in high stakes gambling. Baker also underwent 48 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:44.000 two facelifts, took disco lessons, and purchased a flashy new Jaguar end quote. 49 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:46.960 I don't know why, but the random mention of disco lessons always cracks 50 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:52.919 me up, particularly since this was the mid nineteen eighties when disco's popularity was 51 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:57.120 in sharp decline. So let this be a cautionary tale. Stealing money to 52 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:01.280 pay for disco lessons will lead to financial ruin. But in all seriousness, 53 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:05.240 even if ed was operating his business honestly for the first few years, it 54 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:10.120 sounds like things reached the point where he was operating a Ponzi scheme. He 55 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:14.439 was spending his investors' money on himself to maintain his lifestyle, assuming that all 56 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:16.720 the money he received from new investors could make up for that. But when 57 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:20.680 the oil boom came to an end and Baker can no longer require new investors, 58 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:26.120 the House of Cards started a fall Unsaw Mysteries actually featured a number of 59 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:30.279 fraud segments about white collar criminals who became wanted fugitives for doing this exact thing. 60 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:35.000 But the key difference is is that Baker wound up dead. So here's 61 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:39.120 one of the things that's really sad about this story. I remember last time, 62 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.839 Robin, you were telling us kind of about his background in his personal 63 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:47.519 life as well, where he has the loss of his first wife and then 64 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:54.319 he marries his second wife and they truly start over together. They're building this 65 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:58.639 new business. It seems like she's really his rock, his best friend. 66 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.920 She works there, do seem to start this as a legitimate business. And 67 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:05.920 then at some point it's like he snaps and this midlife crisis. He just 68 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:09.839 says, you know what, I'm done with my second wife, who's been 69 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:12.600 the one to help build all of this with me. I'm going to look 70 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:15.199 for the fastest, the youngest, the prettiest, the most expensive of all 71 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:19.560 of these things. And I think that snap is where he starts to get 72 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:25.319 into trouble. Right. He throws away what was stable and he's chasing better, 73 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:29.319 bigger, even though he had that stability. And that is so sad 74 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:33.199 because he goes back to her from what you told me last time to say, 75 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.920 I'm scared for my life. And she was still the rock even when 76 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:41.319 he was remarried, even when he had moved on. When he was scared 77 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.000 at the end of his life, he went back to her and said, 78 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.720 I'm scared something's going to happen to me. Yeah, it's pretty sad, 79 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:50.439 particularly the mention of the facelifts, that he's desperately trying to make himself look 80 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:54.759 younger. And of course we joked about the disco lessons, and this is 81 00:05:54.759 --> 00:05:57.879 a guy in his fifties, and it sounds like he wants to be like 82 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:01.160 John Traubolt and Saturday Night Fever and make himself look considerably younger and hip. 83 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:05.000 But of course now he's blowing all this money and getting himself into more trouble 84 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:09.560 and he's going for younger women. And like I said, it doesn't sound 85 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:13.600 like Ed Baker was a bad guy until the early nineteen eighties and then it 86 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:16.319 just snapped for him and he just abandoned his second wife, Mary and then 87 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:20.319 just decided I'm going to be this like high flutin guy who lives life to 88 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:25.519 the max, even though he can't sustain it. I feel like two facelifts 89 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:28.879 is a lot by the time you're fifty. I watched this guy on YouTube. 90 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:32.360 His name's doctor Gary. He's amazing, and he always breaks down potential 91 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:38.000 procedures that celebrities have had, and he's just like the nicest guy ever and 92 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:42.800 not at all smarmy, like what you would think for a stereotypical plastic surgeon 93 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:46.639 that would be on YouTube. He's the antithesis of that. But he talks 94 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.000 about facelifts and he says that once people start, you basically have to go 95 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:56.319 every ten years to get a revision one. So he always says that people 96 00:06:56.360 --> 00:07:00.720 should wait until they're as old as they possibly can if that is something that 97 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.680 they're interested in. So if it wasn't a botch facelift that he was fixing, 98 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:09.079 he likely got a facelift when he was around forty, which seems like 99 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:14.399 it's pretty young to be having that kind of surgery. And I mean, 100 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:17.040 especially at the time, it was less likely that anyone would have had that 101 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:21.199 type of surgery, let alone men. So I think that would likely speak 102 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:27.720 to that deep insecurity and that midlife crisis that we've been referencing since Part one. 103 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.639 It really is sad that it seems like he couldn't find any satisfaction no 104 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:35.759 matter what he seemed to have in his life, even when from the outside 105 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:42.160 things look perfect. He clearly was just unhappy with the way that everything was 106 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:48.079 going on the inside. One of the strangest details of Ed's apparent midlife crisis 107 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:54.639 was his short lived third marriage to Karen Wallbridge, which only lasted five months 108 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:59.319 before he got remarried to his fourth wife, Sandy. The only reason we 109 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:03.480 even know anything about Karen Walbridge is because of a twenty fifteen book written by 110 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:09.839 Patricia Goldstone titled Interlock Art, Conspiracy and the Shadow Worlds of Mark Lombardi. 111 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:16.680 Mark Lombardi specialized in what was described as conspiracy art, as he created conceptual 112 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:22.759 artwork which featured drawings of alleged financial and political frauds before he was found hanging 113 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:28.000 in his apartment in two thousand in an apparent suicide. The main reason Ed 114 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:33.279 Baker gets a few brief mentions in this book is because Karen Wallbridge was lifelong 115 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:39.120 friends with Mark Lombardi and they were apparently romantically involved at some point at the 116 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.559 time Karen got married to Ed. She was nearly twenty years younger than him, 117 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:46.879 and it was pretty much no big secret that she only hooked up with 118 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:52.679 him for his money. According to Karen, Ed had her followed by detectives 119 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:56.279 because he thought she was having an affair, and after he got remarried to 120 00:08:56.360 --> 00:09:00.000 Sandy, he was supposed to pay Karen for the annulment to their marriage, 121 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:03.320 but this never happened. Garan is one of the people who believes that Ed 122 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:07.080 might have faked his death and fled the country. But while this book doesn't 123 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:11.240 delve very deeply into this case, it does imply that a lot of money 124 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:16.000 provided to Baker, which allowed his company to have such a successful expansion, 125 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:22.759 was provided by mob financiers and real estate investors, who were both involved in 126 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.759 a CIA network which was operating in Texas during that time period. However, 127 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:31.919 even though I have no problem believing that Baker got in way over his head 128 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.080 and may have found himself in serious debt with some shady figures near the end 129 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:39.559 of his life, I am going to stop short on believing that his death 130 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:45.600 was a massive conspiracy involving the CIA. Oh, for sure, I don't 131 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.879 think necessarily that federal agents were involved but I am not going to say that 132 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:54.679 the mob or pressure from shady people may not be involved. Remember last time, 133 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:56.919 Robin and Jules, you were telling me that at the end of his 134 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:01.279 life, he was kind of offered a deal where he could get some financing 135 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:05.919 from people who were going to quote help him pay his debt off. And 136 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:09.759 we mentioned nothing comes for free, right, someone who's going to help you, 137 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:13.399 quote get out of debt, there's a catch, There's going to be 138 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:18.120 something that comes with that money, right and expectation, And it seems like 139 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.720 Ed Baker was in over his head. But then if he really had taken 140 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:26.360 money from some of these cetier groups to try to keep that lifestyle or even 141 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:31.879 just stay afloat and not get caught as quickly, I don't put it past 142 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:39.799 a financier coming after him. No, I agree, I agree. I 143 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:43.559 think we definitely went into an in part one that everybody believed that he was 144 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:48.440 in debt to some really dangerous people. So I definitely I agree with you 145 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:52.840 Ash. I think that there is a possibility that they could have been involved 146 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:56.720 in what happened to him, But I'm more inclined to believe that his connection 147 00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:01.200 to the mob or the people that he potentially owed money to or a driving 148 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:07.879 force for the potential actions that he then took, which you know, calling 149 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:11.840 of the insurance company and asking if there was a suicide indemnity clause or if 150 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:16.000 it would pay out in the event of suicide. Just is one of those 151 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:20.320 things that pushes me more towards that side. But yeah, I don't think 152 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:26.279 it was a CIA conspiracy. I definitely don't believe that. Yeah, definitely 153 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:28.320 not. They never mentioned that on Unsolved Mysteries, and the only source for 154 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.799 that was in that book we just talked about. But now I'm going to 155 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:37.200 talk more about these people who allegedly loan money to Ed. I know that. 156 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:41.039 Almost immediately after Ed died, his wife, Sandy, publicly stated that 157 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.600 she believed her husband was killed because of his failure to pay back at two 158 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:48.240 hundred and fifty thousand dollars loan to some organized crime figures in Miami, and 159 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:52.480 Ed's private investigator, Bob Gail, also confirmed that Ed had asked him to 160 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:56.919 look into the backgrounds of two men from Miami who were going to loan him 161 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:01.000 some money and see if they had mafia connections, but it's never been released 162 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.679 publicly. Who these men were, and it's unclear if Gail found anything in 163 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:09.240 their backgrounds to suggest they had connections to organized crime. However, I do 164 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:13.080 think it's interesting that Gail was one of the people who pushed forward the theory 165 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:16.639 that Ed faked his own death, which makes me wonder if he found something 166 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.200 which made him believe this story about the loan did not check out. But 167 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:24.000 given how much money he owed his investors, I can definitely believe that Ed 168 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:26.559 would have been desperate enough to borrow money from anybody he could in order to 169 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:31.200 save his company exactly. I think he was desperate at this point, and 170 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:35.720 then you started seeing him making these kind of decisions to say, Okay, 171 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:39.480 what are my options out and one of those would be borrowing money from, 172 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:43.679 like you said, anyone who would give him money. But there's also remember 173 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:50.720 that phone call to the insurance company saying is my life insurance valid if there's 174 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:56.080 a suicide. He's also looking into other options and other ways that he could 175 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.360 quote get out from the mess that he's made, and none of them, 176 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:05.639 none of them offer him any kind of healthy alternative. It's prison, engage 177 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:11.919 with, you know, seedy individuals, or possibly take his own life, 178 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:15.720 So basically you're just borrowing time if that is the case, right, like, 179 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:18.960 if you don't see that there's any other way out of this mess, 180 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:24.720 and that you may not be able to recover financially if you're taking a loan 181 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:28.039 from people who are mobbed up, a very high risk loan, I might 182 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:33.399 add, I'm sure, and then you know that in the end you're likely 183 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:37.320 not going to be able to pay that. Are you then kind of keeping 184 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:43.440 in your sites that suicide is an option and you're just basically on borrowed time. 185 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:48.960 But I would just think that I would be pretty worried if you're going 186 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.320 to take a loan like that, that even if you decide to end your 187 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:56.480 own life, that it could potentially fall on the shoulders of your family members. 188 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:58.799 Yes, that is true, because we have seen examples of that where 189 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:01.720 the is like, well, just because you killed yourself or died, does 190 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.120 not mean we're canceling this debt, and it might fall on your family members. 191 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:09.879 And this might be why Bob Gail was one of the people who believe 192 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:13.120 the theory that Ed could have faked his own debt, that maybe he figured, 193 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:15.600 well, if I bring my wife Sandy in on this and then we 194 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.799 kill somebody else and think my own death and skip the country will be home 195 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.440 free. But of course that's definitely the least likely of any of the theories 196 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:28.919 that's been pushed forward. It's also interesting how Ed owed fifty thousand dollars to 197 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:33.759 a pair of casinos at the time of his death. So when Sandy said 198 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:37.159 that Ed had already spent the money which had been loaned to him from these 199 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:39.720 men in Miami, that could be another way of saying he gambled it all 200 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:45.279 away. I guess the biggest problem with the idea that Ed was murdered by 201 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:48.279 the mafia for failure to repay his debts is that if he was dead, 202 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.519 they would never get that money back. Well, no one has ever openly 203 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:58.399 stated this. You do get the impression that some people might have suspected that 204 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:03.000 Sandy was personally involved in her husband's murder, or at the very least knew 205 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.159 more than she was letting on. Yes, Sandy was established as being out 206 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:11.159 of town over one hundred and sixty miles away at the time Ed was killed, 207 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:15.120 but she still could have conceivably hired to hit Mandy get rid of him, 208 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.440 and then after finding out what had happened. She starts off spouting a 209 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.799 story about a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars loan to the mafia in order 210 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:28.120 to take suspicion off herself. Sandy did take a polygraph test which seemed to 211 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:33.960 indicate that she was withholding information, and she also collected a larger chunk of 212 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:37.039 the money from Ed's life insurance policies than anyone else in his life, even 213 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:43.000 his own children. Immediately following Ed's death, his son Blake, wound up 214 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.559 being arrested for threatening to kill Sandy until he received his share of his father's 215 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:52.120 estate. Unfortunately, we were unable to find out what ultimately happened with Blake's 216 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:58.159 legal situation and if he wound up doing any prison time, but his actions 217 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:03.360 suggests that there was a major hostility between him and Sandy, so I wonder 218 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.440 if Ed's side of the family didn't like her too much. Whatever the case, 219 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.320 Blake was never considered a suspect, and while I can't positively confirm this, 220 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.919 there's a comment on the Unsolved Mysteries website stating that Blake was a drug 221 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:22.399 addict, which could provide an explanation for his behavior. During online searches, 222 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.720 we also managed to find a photo of a grave for a Blake Edward Baker, 223 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.879 who was buried in Gonzales, Texas, after he died in October nineteen 224 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:33.840 ninety five at the age of thirty three. We can't be one hundred percent 225 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:37.759 sure if this is the same guy, but the ages do match up. 226 00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:41.480 That is so sad. I hope it's not his son, because it sounds 227 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.000 like he was battling quite a lot in life. But let's go back to 228 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:49.480 this idea of Blake and his relationship to Sandy. If you were under the 229 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:56.679 assumption Sandy knew anything anything. Let's say that ed comes to her and says, 230 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:00.879 listen, honey, it's bad. It's bad to get killed, and 231 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:04.279 you're gonna get killed or we're going to lose everything we have. I'm gonna 232 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:07.319 end my life, and I need you to get out of here as soon 233 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:10.359 as possible, right or I'm going to have someone help in my life. 234 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.680 I'm going to take care of this, but you can't be here. If 235 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:18.839 you assumed that Sandy was okay with that, and assumed that she knew she 236 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:23.839 would financially be protected if he died, I could see absolute hatred for her, 237 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:26.799 right, because the assumption would be that at the end of the day, 238 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:32.039 it wasn't worth going to the mattresses with him, right, like it 239 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:37.160 wasn't worth saying us against the world, bankrupt in an apartment, you know, 240 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:40.319 with no fancy cars, like I love you that much that we're just 241 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:42.200 going to do this and fix it. I will wait the ten years are 242 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:45.079 going to be in prison, Like none of that is what happened. If 243 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:51.519 you're assuming Sandy knew it was, I will gladly leave and then when you're 244 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:56.000 dead, I'll take your money and everything will be good. So if that 245 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:00.480 is what you assumed, no wonder you'd go berserk as one of his or 246 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:04.079 someone who loved him, even the wife that was so good to him, 247 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.079 right, and that he went back to and said, I'm scared. I 248 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.920 could just see this kind of distaste in my mouth of saying like did she 249 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.720 know question Mark, no way to prove that she did fail that first lie 250 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.920 detector test, but then she said she was going to take a second mom 251 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.160 which we don't think she necessarily took or don't know the results of. But 252 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:29.640 I can absolutely see where this decision if you truly truly were someone's partner for 253 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.240 life, you would say, listen, whatever happens, we'll figure it out, 254 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:37.599 Like even if that means you go to prison, and maybe down the 255 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.039 road we get a divorce. Like, I'm still here as your friend to 256 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:41.119 support you. I don't want you to lose your life, do you know 257 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:45.599 what I mean? But if it was so easy it was just to go 258 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:51.279 off out of town and then recover his life insurance policy, I could see 259 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:55.000 where a lot of people say Sandy knew more than she said. It's quite 260 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:59.680 interesting how little Ed's children backed her into this story, because we know we 261 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:03.559 had issue with Blake and that he had two other daughters from his first marriage, 262 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.880 but there's next to no information about either of them, and they've never 263 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.920 commented on the situation publicly. I mean, they went through a major tragedy 264 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:15.319 themselves because they lost their mother in a car accident during the early nineteen seventies. 265 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.799 And while I get the impression that they probably liked Ed's second wife, 266 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.680 Mary, whom he got remarried to, I'm sure they had issues with Sandy 267 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.880 as well as Ed's third wife, Karen. Feeling that they're possibly just gold 268 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.359 diggers who were after their father for his money, So that's why I get 269 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:33.799 the impression that they did not get along with Sandy. But they did get 270 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:40.880 a decent amount of money from Ed's life insurance policies. But I'm sure they 271 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:45.039 were resentful that Sandy got the largest piece. And I've always been interested to 272 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:48.720 know whether Blake and his two sisters what they personally believe happened, if they 273 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:53.440 believe their father was murdered, or or if his death was a suicide that 274 00:19:53.640 --> 00:20:00.359 he staged just to ensure that they got the life insurance money. Anyway, 275 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:03.839 I know that Sandy eventually moved to Europe, but it's interesting how she was 276 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.240 not interviewed during the Unsolved Mystery segment, even though Ed's ex wife, Mary 277 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:11.839 was Mary claimed that an Ed visitor shortly before his death, he said it 278 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.839 was his idea to send Sandy to Austin for her own protection, which kind 279 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:21.079 of goes against the idea of her traveling there to establish an alibi. As 280 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:23.759 far as I can tell, it was after Ed Sandy away that he decided 281 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:27.160 to go to the trouble of advising his will to ensure that she got the 282 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:33.279 largest payout from his insurance policies. It was also Ed who contacted the insurance 283 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:36.599 companies to check if his policies would still pay out in the event of a 284 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:40.839 suicide, and he sent a letter to his attorney, Ward Busy, asking 285 00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:45.279 him to watch over Sandy and his kids. The evidence does clearly show that 286 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.279 Ed seemed to believe his days were numbered and wanted to ensure that his family 287 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:52.720 was taken care of. Now, if you believe the fake death theory, 288 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:56.039 this could come across as a similar scheme to the Clarence Roberts case, where 289 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.240 Ed killed someone else and burn their body before going into hiding and waiting for 290 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:04.640 Sandy to collect the insurance money. Afterwards, they would both take off to 291 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:08.240 Europe together to live a life of luxury. However, like we stated in 292 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:12.680 our last episode, I do think the dental records match is compelling enough to 293 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:18.119 conclude that it was Ed's body inside his burnt out car. But let's just 294 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:22.240 assume that the theory about Ed completing an elaborate suicide is correct. Even if 295 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:26.640 Sandy was not directly involved, perhaps she still had advanced knowledge that Ed was 296 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.640 planning to do this. It definitely would be interesting to see the contents of 297 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.559 the final letter that Ed wrote for Sandy, as he had asked word Bucy 298 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:38.519 to pass it along to her. These letters are the main reason why Bucy 299 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.960 was one of the biggest believers in the suicide theory. During his Unsolved Mystery's 300 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:48.079 interview, Bucy says the letter addressed to him read quote, if you're reading 301 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.720 this, I am dead. Since the letter was dated November the sixth, 302 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.759 the day before Ed was killed, Bucy asked how Ed could have known it 303 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:59.680 would arrive after his death, unless he was planning to take his own life. 304 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.279 Well, the problem is that Bucy's quote during his interview is very misleading, 305 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.680 and they actually do show the entire letter on screen during the Unsolved Mystery 306 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:11.799 segment. In our last episode, you heard us quote it word for word, 307 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:15.519 and at no point did Ed actually write quote, if you're reading this, 308 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.960 I am dead. While Ed was obviously providing Bucy with instructions for how 309 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:23.400 to handle things in the event of his death, he was not flat out 310 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:27.880 predicting he would die. I wonder too, if there becomes this kind of 311 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:33.480 psychosis about the big threat against you, like he knows he's in hot water, 312 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.559 but he starts over preparing for his death, like the moms following him, 313 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.920 the CIA could be involved. You know, Oh my gosh, they're 314 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:44.680 out for me. They're gonna kill Sandy too. Let me write this letter, 315 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:48.240 let me get my life insurance in play. Does it start to become 316 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.839 like a conspiracy theory in his own brain where all of a sudden, he's 317 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.960 going, they're gonna kill me. They're gonna kill me. I gotta get 318 00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:57.839 out of here. And he's so scared or so paranoid that he does end 319 00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:03.519 up taking his own life beyond just this very well thought out planned financial exit. 320 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.680 I feel like he does a lot of things to prepare, but I 321 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:12.160 wonder if in that preparedness does it make him heightened to this point of like 322 00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:17.319 he creates the idea that's his only option. But don't you think in a 323 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:21.480 situation like that too, people will go, Okay, well, this is 324 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.960 the foregone conclusion. I can't pay back this money, ergo I am going 325 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:30.200 to end up being murdered. So am I going to just sit around and 326 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:34.240 wait to see when and how they do it to me in this state of 327 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:38.480 fear? Or Am I going to take matters into my own hands and handle 328 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:42.720 my own exit from the earthly plane. That is true. Like even though 329 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:47.640 these actions of his could be a point towards him planning a suicide, it 330 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:51.480 could be the reverse that he figured his days were numbered and says, I 331 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:53.079 have to prepare because I'm going to get killed anyway, so i want to 332 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:57.559 make sure that my family is taken care of after I'm gone. All that 333 00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:03.920 being said, Whilbusey's story about the letter might have been misleading. There is 334 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.720 some logic to what he was saying. Ed did a number of things to 335 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.640 suggest that he was preparing for his own death, though this could have been 336 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:14.960 because he was suspected he was going to be killed in the near future, 337 00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.599 Like we just mentioned, Well, it doesn't seem suspicious that Ed would check 338 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.319 on his life insurance policies and revise his will if he thought he was going 339 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:27.680 to die. It is odd that he would specifically ask his insurance carriers if 340 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:33.400 the policies would pay out in the event of his suicide. Why would you 341 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.759 worry about something like that if you believed that you were going to be murdered. 342 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:41.599 If Ed's financial problems were so out of control that he knew there was 343 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.039 no way he would ever dig himself out of that hole. He may have 344 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.160 planned to as lade as an escape, but to ensure his family would be 345 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:51.960 taken care of financially, he had to ensure that his death looked like a 346 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.799 homicide. On the surface, it seems plausible that Ed could have been killed 347 00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:02.160 because he owed people money. But here's an important quest question besides Sandy and 348 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:04.920 Mary, did I ever tell anyone else that his life was in danger? 349 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:10.319 Remember? He just suddenly showed up at Mary's house out of the blue one 350 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:12.599 night to tell her what was going on, and then he wound up going 351 00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:18.680 missing several hours later. He told Mary that he'd been receiving threatening letters at 352 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:22.680 his workplace, But did anyone actually see these letters or confirmed that they existed? 353 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.640 That's the thing that I mean. He does tell Mary that there's this 354 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:33.599 threat and this idea that people are after him, but is it just his 355 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:36.759 words? He was the one behind all of that. When he reaches out 356 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:38.880 to the private investigator, When he reaches out to the man who he's trying 357 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.359 to help him prepare for the end of his life, like if something happens, 358 00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:45.960 right when he shows up and tells Mary that he's in trouble, when 359 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.400 he sends Sandy away, I'm in trouble. People are after me. Like 360 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:53.200 you said, who else knows that? Right? You would think that he 361 00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:59.480 would have shown all of that to the private investigator or to the attorney who's 362 00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:04.039 helping him, and he didn't to our knowledge. I also going back to 363 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.839 you know, is this a plan to make it look like a homicide? 364 00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:11.359 I think he has to. It has to get so elaborate that he says, 365 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:17.000 it needs to look like someone killed me, so that that one policy 366 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:21.319 that doesn't count and won't qualify if this is a suicide gets paid out to 367 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:26.119 my family. But remember the cars burned out. But there's his own shotgun 368 00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:30.200 on the floor of the car, which would make sense in the location if 369 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:34.000 he had shot himself. And we talked last time about this fire in the 370 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:40.160 car, and I think it would be possible if you poured the gasoline in 371 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:45.119 a thoughtful enough manner and you threw the match at the back of the vehicle 372 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:47.240 or something. I feel like you could sit in the front seat and have 373 00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:49.880 time to pull the trigger before the fire engulfed you to a point of death. 374 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.400 I agree love the way you praised that though. If he threw the 375 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:59.079 glass lean over himself in such a thoughtful manner, it just makes it sound 376 00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.400 nice. It's lovely, a lovely little Indian of everything exactly. It would 377 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:07.559 take a certain amount of time to spread it, but it takes two seconds 378 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:10.279 to throw a match. You ensure it's lit, and then you could pull 379 00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:14.680 the trigger. I think the fact that they discounted, some people discounted that 380 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:18.759 this was possible, I think it's kind of shortsighted because it seems entirely possible. 381 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:23.240 But it had to be dramatic enough, like you know, there had 382 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:29.359 to be a question mark enough which that would cause to have that insurance policy 383 00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:32.440 pay it off. So to me, that's a very thoughtful, kind of 384 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.000 intelligent way that he plans this suicide if it was a suicide to say, 385 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:38.440 well, I'm at least going to cause enough question mark where they have to 386 00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:42.960 pay my family out. And I wonder if he was worried too that if 387 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:47.839 the mob was after him, maybe they wouldn't be too worried about setting an 388 00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.440 example because not enough people knew about who he was and knew about what he'd 389 00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:55.160 done. Maybe they would just make him disappear and bury his body somewhere and 390 00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:59.240 then he's got to be missing for like seven years before there would ever be 391 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:03.160 any payout. So if you're worried that somebody could just disappear you and your 392 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.319 family is left with nothing until they go to court and have you legally declared 393 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:11.119 dead in like seven years, I can understand why he could have made that 394 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:15.519 choice as well. Yep, that's definitely a good choice. It's better to 395 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:19.319 establish that he's dead right away rather than being missing for several years. So 396 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:22.960 that's a theory where both things could be true, Like his life could have 397 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.000 been in danger, but his death could have also been a suicide at the 398 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.440 same time. So if Ed really was in danger, there really doesn't seem 399 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:34.720 to be any logical reason for him to have visited Mary that night, unless 400 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.640 he wanted to plan some seeds and give off the false impression he was about 401 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:42.720 to be killed. That way, when he wound up dead under suspicious circumstances 402 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:47.359 a few days later, Mary would be able to corroborate a story about his 403 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:51.319 life being threatened and make the police less likely to believe his death was a 404 00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:55.359 suicide. To be honest, for many years, I never found the suicide 405 00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:59.480 theory to be that plausible. But I reevaluated things a little bit when I 406 00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:03.759 read some articles published in the Houston Chronicle and other local newspapers following Ed's death, 407 00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:08.640 as they contained some interesting pieces of information not mentioned on Unsolved Mysteries. 408 00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:14.480 Even though Ed's body was found on November the eighth, the segment never mentions 409 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.279 that his gardener discovered he was missing on the morning of November the seventh, 410 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:22.680 when he showed up at the Baker residence and discovered a broken window. While 411 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.359 there were a few overturned items in Ed's bedroom, the place wasn't exactly ransacked, 412 00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:30.680 and quite frankly, it kind of gives me the impression that the whole 413 00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:33.960 scene might have been staged. And remember, there's this idea that if people 414 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.079 went in and kidnapped him, If there were one or more people that are 415 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:41.279 in there kidnapping this man, they have to quietly get a grown man out 416 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:45.119 of his house, drive him in his own car. So get him into 417 00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.839 the car, get him to this location, risk being seen in public with 418 00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.000 him. Why not just kill him in his own house? And why kill 419 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:55.640 him with his own shotgun? You would show up to a stage I mean 420 00:29:55.680 --> 00:30:00.400 to have planned murder with a weapon. If you truly were the mob by 421 00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:03.160 the mob after money, trying to get revenge on him. You wouldn't just 422 00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:06.799 go there to chat. You'd come to kill him. And I think you'd 423 00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.920 do it with as little risk as possible, which is just kill him the 424 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:12.759 moment you see him. And of course, yeah, I could see them 425 00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:15.799 taking out out into a remote field and setting him on fire to send some 426 00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:18.599 sort of message. But like you said, why not just do it at 427 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.240 the house. Why not set the house on fire and burn it down, 428 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.240 because that would be very symbolic that you take money from us to build this 429 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:29.319 expensive house for yourself and then don't pay us, then we're going to kill 430 00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:33.599 you. Sure, it's possible that Ed could have been kidnapped by intruders who 431 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.079 broke in and forced him to drive out to this remote rice field in his 432 00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:42.400 own Jaguar, But the detail that strikes me as particularly odd is how the 433 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:47.240 shotgun he owned appeared to be the only item that was missing from the house. 434 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.400 The Unsolved Mystery segment mentioned a revolver being found on the floorboard of a 435 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.400 burned out Jaguar, but they did not mention the remains of what appeared to 436 00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.480 be a shotgun were also found inside the vehicle, so if Ed was acted, 437 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.480 why would he have taken his shotgun with him even though his body was 438 00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:07.960 badly burned. I think they were able to determine that he received a gunshot 439 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.519 at some point, and it likely came from the revolver. But regardless of 440 00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:18.240 whether this was a murder or suicide, it still comes across a strange that 441 00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:22.640 two separate guns were found inside the car. I'm dead on with you, 442 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.440 Jules. The shotgun alone is one of the most frustrating things for me here. 443 00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:32.359 It's the thing that makes me ninety eight percent sure that this was a 444 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:37.559 suicide, because again, that was his shotgun in his car. Just doesn't 445 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:41.640 make sense. There were apparently eyewitness accounts of smoke coming from the field during 446 00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.160 the early morning hours of Remember the seventh, which means that even though the 447 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.079 vehicle was not discovered until the following day, it must have burned only a 448 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:53.960 few hours after Ed's final phone call with Sandy, So theoretically, after he 449 00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:57.759 finished the call, Ed could have overturned some items in his bedroom and broken 450 00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:01.480 his front window and order to create the false impression of a break in before 451 00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:05.799 driving out into the field. To take his own life. We do have 452 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:08.960 the eyewitness sighting of an unidentified pickup truck which appeared to be speeding away from 453 00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:13.839 the field during the early morning hours, which might suggest that someone else had 454 00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:16.319 been there it was involved in Baker's death, but for all we know, 455 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:20.599 the truck could have just been pass throughs through the area and has no connection 456 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:23.720 to this case. However, even if this was a suicide, the person 457 00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:28.319 driving that truck still could have been involved with what happened. As One of 458 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:31.720 the theories pushed forward by people who believed the suicide theory is that Baker had 459 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:37.400 an accomplice who set fire to his vehicle after he shot himself. Indeed, 460 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.119 the biggest issue with the suicide theory is that it really would not have been 461 00:32:40.119 --> 00:32:44.960 easy for Baker to kill himself in that fashion, especially if he was alone. 462 00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:49.160 It wouldn't have been easy, but it would have been possible, And 463 00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:54.240 I don't necessarily think it's impossible for there too have been somebody that helped him. 464 00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:59.839 You know, did Sandy owe this person money from the life insurance? 465 00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:04.519 Is it possible that Ed had arranged it where he'd get some of the money. 466 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.880 But I could see there being a need to ensure that that car burned 467 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:13.400 fully, and the way that it is possible for him to have set it 468 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:19.279 on fire may not have ensured that it burned fully without someone supervising the flames. 469 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:22.119 So if you said I'm going to throw the match, I'm going to 470 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:27.599 shoot myself and the car is going to be engulfed, that is very probable. 471 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:30.200 But in the event that that fire stopped, let's say at the back 472 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:35.799 seat, and all of a sudden there's Ed's body with a self inflicted wound, 473 00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:40.839 then his family loses. So if he went to all these other lengths 474 00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:46.079 to ensure that his policies included X, Y and Z, or didn't include 475 00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:50.359 if he were to stage all of this, if he were to send Sandy 476 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:53.440 away, write the letter to the people that were helping him, look for 477 00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:58.960 his private investigator to look into people that were involved in his case, would 478 00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:04.519 he then go to the extent to say, for ten thousand dollars, can 479 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.440 you please make sure that this happens if my family's protected, and like it 480 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:13.440 sounds insane, It sounds insane, But if you were loyal to someone and 481 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:20.599 loved their family, could you see people willing to do that I wouldn't personally 482 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:23.320 want to be involved, but I could see someone saying yeah, for money 483 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:28.280 or for the fact that your family can't be left desperate. I could see 484 00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:32.159 people helping. Yeah, oh one hundred percent. Like I can understand in 485 00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:37.360 a situation where, you know, say, a systant suicide isn't acceptable somewhere, 486 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:42.519 and somebody that I love asked for my help. I think, given 487 00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:46.079 certain circumstances, if they were truly in pain and they couldn't leave, and 488 00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:51.400 they just wanted that to happen, I would consider that It's a very different 489 00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.559 thing to light somebody on fire and watch them burn. But I could, 490 00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:59.280 like you said, Ash, there are people out there who would say, 491 00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:01.119 okay, like for the the right price, I could do that, or 492 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:07.079 because I care about your family. I think maybe both things, but it's 493 00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:09.199 possible. I don't know how likely it is. I'm more inclined to think 494 00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:15.320 that he lit the fire himself and just was educated enough on the process of 495 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:20.199 how fire burns, how to oxygenate it, and just figured, okay, 496 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:22.760 well, if it doesn't fully burn me, then you know, at least 497 00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:28.000 I've been shot, and it'll look like these people that are after me because 498 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.760 I planted the seed that I'm you know, in danger from these mob figures 499 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:37.480 so people will believe it. But I mean it is possible. Yeah, 500 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:39.719 it could be a thing where he told the person you don't even actually have 501 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:43.400 to do anything. You just have to hang around the scene and make sure 502 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:46.719 that this burns as fully as it can and totally destroys my body, because, 503 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:50.119 like you said, if he's already dead, it's not like he can 504 00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:52.679 do anything if the fire goes out and doesn't burn all the evidence that he 505 00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:55.119 hopes it does. So he could have just told this person, well, 506 00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:59.320 if it doesn't burn that thoroughly, could you just please like pour an extra 507 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.840 cannagatine over it and make sure it burns even more and then, if not, 508 00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:07.280 just drive away. I did an interview with a detective for an episode 509 00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:10.280 like way Back a couple of years ago, and he said, one of 510 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.679 the things that you never forget once you've smelled it is the smell of burning 511 00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:20.039 human flesh. He said, It's just it's something you can't shake. It's 512 00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:23.840 horrific. That's why I'm thinking that if someone made me an offer, because 513 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:27.760 you set my body on fire after I'm already dead, It's like you would 514 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:29.719 have to pay me a lot of money, or I would have to be 515 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.840 very devoted for that person to just be around and experience that smell of burning 516 00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:36.960 flesh. Yeah, I don't think any amount of money would get me to 517 00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:38.519 do it. I would really have to love somebody, and they would have 518 00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:44.000 to make a real compelling argument for why it had to be done in order 519 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:49.559 for me to do it. The authorities found no less than three empty one 520 00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:52.159 gallon gas cans at the scene, But I have no idea if they were 521 00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:57.280 able to trace these gas cans and figure out if they might have been linked 522 00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:01.880 to Baker. Even those suicidal people can be capable of some pretty extraordinary things, 523 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:07.079 it would still take an incredible amount of willpower to pour gasoline over your 524 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.440 body, set yourself on fire, and then have enough wherewithal to point a 525 00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:15.280 gun at your head and pull the trigger. But still, if Ed's entire 526 00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:20.159 motivation for ending his life in such a bizarre fashion was to eradicate all evidence 527 00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:23.119 that his death was a suicide and ensure his family could collect the life insurance, 528 00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:27.679 how could he have been certain that the fire would burn hot enough to 529 00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:30.800 destroy his body so thoroughly what if the gun managed to stay in his hand 530 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:36.000 after he shot himself. This is why I'm inclined to believe that if this 531 00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.800 was a suicide, Baker potentially had at least one other person there to ensure 532 00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:44.960 the whole scheme when office planned, and perhaps this person was the driver of 533 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:49.199 the mysterious pickup truck. I have no idea who Baker would have enlisted to 534 00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:52.760 do this, but it would have been their responsibility to ensure that Baker's body 535 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:58.639 and the vehicle were burned as thoroughly as possible, which technically could have made 536 00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:04.840 this an assisted suicide. As strange as this situation sounds, it's not unprecedented. 537 00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:09.360 There are documented cases of people making their suicides look as unusual as possible 538 00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:14.760 to make everyone think that they're a victim of a homicide. As an example, 539 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:16.880 look at the two thousand and nine death a fifty one year old Bill 540 00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:21.519 Sparkman, who was found tied to a tree with a rope around his neck 541 00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:25.480 and died of an apparent asphyxiation. Sparkman was nude and had been gagged, 542 00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:29.599 and he also had a word written on his chest and it felt to hit 543 00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:35.360 Marker. But as bizarre as the whole scene was. A thorough investigation revealed 544 00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.360 that Sparkman's death was a suicide, as he was suffering from cancer and had 545 00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:43.320 staged his death to look like a homicide so that his family could collect on 546 00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:47.199 some life insurance policies. Totally six hundred thousand dollars. So who's to say 547 00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:51.719 that Ed Baker couldn't have attempted the same thing. And you know, I 548 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:55.400 think it goes beyond money. I think it's very possible Ed did stage the 549 00:38:55.480 --> 00:39:00.360 same thing. But you know, suicide carries it different stigma with it. 550 00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:06.239 And when you have someone who chooses to in their own life, despite the 551 00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:09.039 reality that it's grounded in mental health or you know, decisions that are far 552 00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:15.519 bigger than most people can understand, there's a shame and a kind of lack 553 00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:21.360 of care given to the family after someone dies of suicide. And so I 554 00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:25.800 wonder if that also plays into people's decisions when they in their own life to 555 00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:31.039 say, I'd rather my family also have this vision that I was hurt by 556 00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:35.360 someone else, so there can be someone else to be angry at, there 557 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:39.840 can be an unknown person to blame and kind of ruminate on, versus that 558 00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:45.239 I chose to leave them or that quote, they feel they didn't do enough, 559 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:49.039 or they question themselves of what else could I have done to save him? 560 00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.719 You know? Does it also spare the family when someone's trying to make 561 00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:55.280 it look like something else happened? I mean, is that part of the 562 00:39:55.320 --> 00:40:00.840 thought process that could go into some of these more bizarre cases is where it's 563 00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:05.039 not just the money. I want my family to think differently of me as 564 00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:09.559 well and be treated differently as well. And it could be an ego thing, 565 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.159 like we discussed in our last episode, whether Ed could have been a 566 00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:15.920 narcissist and he may have had the mentality while suicide makes you look weak, 567 00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:19.559 and I don't want people to think that I gave up and took my own 568 00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:22.159 life, So that could have motivated him to try to make his death look 569 00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:27.360 as elaborate as possible so that people would think he was murdered and not believe 570 00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:30.599 that he ended his own life on his own accord. And this leads us 571 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:35.760 back to Sandy. Even if the story about Ed's life being in danger because 572 00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:38.719 he owed money to the mob was a complete fabrication, he was still facing 573 00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:43.519 a ton of trouble because of his financial indiscretions and there was a very good 574 00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:46.320 chance he would go to prison. So Ed probably figured that no matter what, 575 00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:51.159 his life was ruined and suicide was the only way out, but he 576 00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:54.000 still wanted to make sure his family was taken care of. If Ed told 577 00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:58.679 Sandy about this plan beforehand, then this would have motivated her to share a 578 00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:02.639 story about Ed's failure payback alone to organize crime figures, planning the seeds that 579 00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:07.199 her husband was a victim of foul play, and allowing her to collect on 580 00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.400 his life insurance policies. I may not put much stock into polygraphs, but 581 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:15.280 this could explain why the results of Sandy's test seemed to indicate that she was 582 00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:19.960 withholding information. It wasn't because she had him murdered, but because she knew 583 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:23.599 he had orchestrated an elaborate suicide plot. Like we mentioned earlier, when Ed 584 00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:28.360 visited Mary's house and told her his life was in danger, this might have 585 00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:31.239 been only done for show. Look, I certainly do not rule out the 586 00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:35.679 possibility of foul play here, and if you had asked me about this case 587 00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:38.239 a few years ago, I probably still would have said that Ed was murdered. 588 00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:43.119 But when you look at the big picture and examine all of Ed's actions 589 00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:47.360 prior to his death. Everything seemed pretty calculated. If this was a suicide, 590 00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:51.639 then I guess the only way to truly solve this case would be if 591 00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:55.079 someone was complicit or had knowledge about what Ed was going to do. However, 592 00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:59.800 since many years have passed, I'm not sure anyone is still actively working 593 00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:02.559 on this case anymore, so we'll probably never know the truth. But if 594 00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:07.800 you happen to have any information about the unexplained death of Ed Baker, please 595 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:13.719 contact the appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley any final thoughts on this case. My 596 00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:19.079 gut tells me that Ed decided he had gotten so over his head right and 597 00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:22.639 so over his head that his only option not just to escape what he had 598 00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:27.239 created, but to provide an out for his family as well, was to 599 00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:30.400 in his own life and to allow them to collect on those life insurance policies 600 00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:37.440 and tried to rebuild after his death. I think he had gotten in a 601 00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:42.639 position where he and Mary had started a legitimate business. Then he started to 602 00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.280 see wealth, started to hang out with people who might have had more wealth 603 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:51.440 than he did, and he wanted to play fast and loose bigger than the 604 00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.079 means he had, and he got in this world where you just keep spending 605 00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:58.599 and keep spending to keep up, and you find yourself in a position that 606 00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:01.920 says, I can't do it anymore, Like I'm in big trouble at this 607 00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:06.000 point, and so are the people that I care about. And so I 608 00:43:06.039 --> 00:43:09.159 do believe Ed ended his own life. I think that's pretty evident with the 609 00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:14.639 shotgun found in the car, and also with the I believe sixty points of 610 00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:17.519 dental matches that were able to be performed despite how charred the body was when 611 00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:22.039 it was recovered. But it doesn't matter at the end of the day, 612 00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:27.199 because whether or not you trust what Sandy says, there are so many people 613 00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.920 involved in this case. I feel really sad for Mary, who seems to, 614 00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:37.480 despite not always being treated respectfully, stood by Ed's side and was there 615 00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:40.440 when he was scared at the end of his life. She also helped him 616 00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:46.360 with his three babies that were from his original marriage when he lost his first 617 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:52.400 wife. And there are a lot of people who were relying on Ed and 618 00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:57.199 he wasn't able to get himself out of the mess he created. I don't 619 00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:00.199 believe that this necessarily was a homicide. Was someone else there to help him 620 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:05.039 in his life and protect his family. I think it's a possibility, but 621 00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:07.360 I think Ed was the one who had this decision and said, I'm going 622 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.599 to make this so air tight that at the last thing I'll do. I've 623 00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:13.719 gotten them into a lot of trouble, but the last thing I want to 624 00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:19.480 do is make them financially stable and safe without me being here. I mean, 625 00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:22.800 there's a lot of judgment that could go into that, but there's also 626 00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:24.679 a lot of where you step back and say, I could see, when 627 00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:30.159 you're that far buried that you could turn to this as an option to say 628 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:32.559 I'm done. There's no way for me to get out of this, but 629 00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:36.679 I could protect the people that I care about, and that seems to be 630 00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:42.039 what he did. Yeah. I think that both things can be true, 631 00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.679 and that Ed's life was under threat and that he owed a lot of money 632 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:50.719 to some dangerous people. But I don't believe that he was murdered. I 633 00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:54.280 think that he took great care to ensure that his loved ones were taken care 634 00:44:54.320 --> 00:45:00.639 of, and this was a very elaborate setup. I believe it was absolutely 635 00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:02.760 his body. I don't think he was in Europe with Sandy, and I 636 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:07.840 do believe that, of course Sandy wasn't physically involved, but I think she 637 00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:12.920 had some kind of knowledge about what Ed was planning, or at least had 638 00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:17.280 some great suspicions. I mean, it's a really sad case because his kids 639 00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:22.360 are left behind to wonder what happened, and the idea of thinking that your 640 00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:25.679 father was murdered in a really brutal way, and you know, having a 641 00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:32.159 private investigator that Sandy hired second that it wasn't a suicide probably gave fuel to 642 00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:36.360 their fire of thinking, oh my gosh, like somebody has done this to 643 00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:40.599 our father. How horrific. Unfortunately, we don't know how his children felt 644 00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:45.840 about this and where they stood on the suicide versus murder. But I mean, 645 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:52.599 I really really feel horrible for them in this situation because nobody wants to 646 00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:55.639 have their parent and their own life, but nobody ever wants to think of 647 00:45:55.679 --> 00:46:00.920 their parent being abducted and then shot and said on fire. It's all just 648 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:07.280 so horrific. And whether or not somebody else was involved in this careful orchestration 649 00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:10.480 of this plan, the one thing that really does stick out to me is 650 00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:15.159 those gas cans are left behind. I wonder if they ever dusted them for 651 00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:20.280 Prince, and the fact that if you were somebody that was going to end 652 00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:23.239 somebody else's life, like if you had somebody who was like a co conspirator 653 00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:28.039 in this grand scheme or somebody murdered him, I believe they would have taken 654 00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:31.199 those gas cans with them, And the fact that they didn't makes me just 655 00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:37.559 lean slightly more towards the fact that he executed this on his own and Sandy 656 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:42.320 and potentially maybe other people may have had knowledge, but he was the one 657 00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:46.679 who was responsible for setting himself on fire and pulling that trigger. Yeah, 658 00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:50.559 now that you mentioned the detail about the gas cans, I'm thinking to myself, 659 00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:52.320 if he really wanted to make it look like murder, why didn't this 660 00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:57.119 accomplice take the gun out of the car after he shot himself, Because if 661 00:46:57.159 --> 00:46:59.760 there's no gun found at the scene, then no one is ever going to 662 00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:02.480 think suicide. So yeah, that is another point which leans me away. 663 00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:07.840 With an accomplice being involved, makes me lean towards Ed doing this to himself. 664 00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:13.679 Like many cases and unsolved mysteries about suspicious suicides. When I originally became 665 00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:16.679 familiar with this, case thirty plus years ago, I usually automatically bought the 666 00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:21.119 narrative that foul play had taken place. But of course, as the year 667 00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:24.039 has gone on, a lot of these cases from the show that were considered 668 00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:29.760 to be suspicious suicides now look like they probably were suicides all along. And 669 00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:32.400 I think you could still apply that to Ed Baker, though this is a 670 00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:37.960 different type of suicide where it's not one that's like the result of depression or 671 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:42.039 mental health issues. It was a guy who got himself into some serious trouble 672 00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:46.280 and was making a calculated effort trying to make his suicide look like a homicide. 673 00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:50.320 I mean, i'd lfiely admit that of all the victims we featured on 674 00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:52.639 the show, Ed Baker is not one of the most likable because he did 675 00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:58.119 do some bad things. He did some financial indiscretions, he went through women 676 00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:00.440 a lot during the last few years of his life, fan he betrayed some 677 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:06.239 people who cared about them. The sympathetic figures in this story are definitely Add's 678 00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:12.360 children and his second wife, Mary, because even though even though he suffered 679 00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:15.719 a tragedy by losing his first wife, and he and Mary started their company 680 00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:22.320 Vanguard international together, he wound up having this weird midlife crisis where he decided 681 00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:24.599 that he wanted to be with younger women. But it sounds like Mary still 682 00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:30.159 genuinely cared about him and was concerned when during the last days of his life 683 00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:32.280 when it looked like he was suffering a mental breakdown and he was thinking his 684 00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:36.360 life might be in danger. And she is the one who helped keep the 685 00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:39.679 story in the spotlight, appearing on unsolved mysteries and trying to seek answers about 686 00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:44.679 what happened ed, whereas his last wife, Sandy, pretty much just stayed 687 00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:46.880 away from the spotlight and was content to move on. But yeah, when 688 00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:51.159 you look at it, it does seem like a calculated effort to kill himself 689 00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:53.880 and ensure that his family would be taken care of, which I guess is 690 00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:59.880 a honorable thing to ensure that your family will be financially secure after you're gone. 691 00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:02.679 At the same time, you're making them live through the horror of thinking 692 00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:07.679 that someone they cared about was murdered in a very horrific fashion and leaving them 693 00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:12.400 with uncertainty. But when you look at all the evidence, it does seem 694 00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:17.239 like this was a very calculated suicide in a very unusual situation, Robin, 695 00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:20.960 do you want to tell us a little bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? 696 00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:23.679 Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, 697 00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:29.800 and we offer these standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and I 698 00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:34.320 also send out stickers and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up with 699 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.599 us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars tier tier two, we 700 00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:44.000 also offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about cases which are not featured 701 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:47.039 on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon and if 702 00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:51.920 you join our highest tier tier three, the ten dollar tier. One of 703 00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:57.599 the features we offer is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries, 704 00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:00.960 where you can download an audio file and then boot up the original Unsolved 705 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:07.440 Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing 706 00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:10.679 in the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured 707 00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:15.480 in this episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that I did a 708 00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:19.800 commentary track over was the episode featuring this case. So if you want to 709 00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:23.239 download a commentary track in which I make more smart ass remarks about jewel Kaylor 710 00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:27.599 then be sure to join Tier three. So I want to let you know 711 00:50:27.639 --> 00:50:30.280 a little bit about the jeweles and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad free 712 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:35.440 episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our Pathwent Chili mini's, which 713 00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:37.559 are always over an hour, so they're not very mini, but they're just 714 00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:42.360 too short to turn into a series and we're really enjoying doing those. So 715 00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:45.840 we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link them in the show notes. 716 00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:49.079 So I want to thank you all for listening, and any chance you 717 00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:52.599 have to share us on social media with a friend or to rate and review 718 00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:55.599 is greatly appreciate it. You can email us at The Pathwentchili at gmail dot 719 00:50:55.599 --> 00:51:00.760 com. You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwent. Until next time, 720 00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:04.679 be sure to bundle up because cold trails and chili pass call for warm 721 00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:07.480 clothing. Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy