Hey, it's Bob Pickett. We are on our way to the legendary Broken
Spoken. Come on, let's get out the truck and head inside, and
damn you're proud of it. Come on, it's going side, getting ready
for another Tale from the Broken Spoke. Back once again, we got more
tales, Bob Picket. It's Tales from Broken Spoke, from the world famous
historic Broken Spoke on South of mar In Austin, Texas. Moni's grinning at
me right now. What's going on? I'm just happy that Will's here.
Yeah, how y'all doing. I'll let you introduce Will and tell everybody about
him, because I'll tell my story about We'll after you. All right,
Well, this is one of my dear, dear friends, a dear brother
in one of and I've been doing this since I was fourteen years old,
NonStop, only thing. It's one of the most talented people I have ever
known in any genre. Plays guitar plays, steal guitar play, anything in
front of him, and he's an even better human being. Will Mack Willnack.
Now, Okay, I guess both you and Will went to daycare right
here at the Broken Spoke exactly right. I grew up here. What's the
first time you picked here? I was? I was fourteen twelve, right,
see, I'm twelve years old. I listed. I listed on social
media and Facebook for a while as my high school because you neither one of
us ever saw a high school. Right, I was eighth grade? When
did you quit going to school after eighth grade? I'm like, Billy Joe
Shaver got me in eighth grade? Education too, good Christian raising. I
don't know if I got that, but I'm working on it, I said,
Man, I graduated the shit out of the eighth grade. Yeah,
so I have a gd greatly educated dude. You know I got all I
need? And you were held back at the broken spoke. I think it's
okay, right, that's yay, man, So twelve years old broken spoke,
explain that to us now. So and actually in this, I'll just
get heavy and get deep right away, Get deep right away. My mother
got drunk and set our house on fire when I was real young eleven,
and uh I woke up and rescued my dad. Anyway, the house was
burned down, so they moved us across town to Oldworf. And when I
was stuck in this apartment all summer, and I like to play sports.
I like to play football well outside with my friends, but I couldn't get
there. They lived ten miles away or five miles away or whatever. So
all summer I was locked in this apartment while he was at work, playing
video games and guitar. And I loved Kurt Cobain and I got into Jimmy
Hendricks and all sorts of other stuff. Later, but we started going to
Spoke to listen to bands. My dad saw that, and I met Patty
David and Michelle Murphy. Patty introduced me to Michelle, and she introduced me
to guitar Lynd, who taught me a blue skill right on the floor,
right there on her knees about yes, and told me, if you can
learn this scale, you can play on any song in any key. And
so I went home and it's just like just over and over and started playing
with some people here, sitting in with Patty David and Debora Peters, who
was like an accordion player. She did a lot of zydaco and country.
She's great, Yeah, she's amazing. Boomer Norman was her guitar player.
He gave me a lot of instruction I met Johnny X through Michelle Murphy,
who had the National Music camp that they got me into, and Johnny started
mentoring me, but he would also let me sit in with his bands in
addition to what he was doing at the school, and so they would notice,
like when I think this is how to have it? I never got
told, but you know, if the kid played Johnny be Good behind his
head, there's fifties and hundreds that started getting dropped in the tip jar,
so like maybe we should hire him sometimes, you know. So as like
I had this naive perspective, like I didn't know what I was even doing,
but I was already doing it. And they were then teaching me more
material. Johnny Wuld teach me venture songs, chitt Santo and Johnny how to
play exactly Stormy Monday, Bobby Bland the solo note for note, and I
played with Paul Ray and the covers when I was like thirteen, and he
was blown away by the Wayne Bennett solo I did because he's it sounded wow,
how you thirteen and you can play Wayne Bennett? And I didn't even
know what I was doing. Seriously, I still had no clue, but
they were giving me these opportunities and I just kept going, you know,
I had nothing else, and so yeah, broken Spoke. It really did
start here, and I was playing with Alvin Crow by the time I was
fifteen. But you realize how lucky you were at the time. You didn't
it was just another everyday currency. Well. But also, let me just
say this, there's a lot of kids that listened to Jimmy Hendrix and Kurt
Cobain and Johnny be Good millions. There are hundreds that can play that stuff.
And also, you know so many if you're not a picker. It's
like the notes, well you can learn the notes, you can even learn
how to play, but you can't learn talent. And like when I first
started hearing about Will was that there's like there's this kid and he's got a
tone like Denny Freeman, and nobody says nobody says yeah, they said,
you know Denny Freeman, and it was like, okay, well, how's
that happening? Goo He plugs in and it just sounds that way. You
know. It's one of those things where people like the old joke, you
know, you're playing a guitar and goes man, that guitar sounds good.
So then you hand it to him and go, well, how does it
sound? Now? You know, right, that's a good one. So
and it's just like Will, It's just uh. And and also you have
to remember the uh, the the Texas club tradition, you know, you
know, back in the early fifties. I think the first little we had
was little Dougie Song. I think that I think he was the first little
Then we had little Jimmy Vaughan, the little Stevie vaugh And then you know
in Charlie Charlie in the in the eighties, you know. And so just
that, and and the thing is it's not so much the novelty of that
kids can do it. It is this thing that is only in Texas that
I have found that they really don't care your age, or if you're white
or black or Hispanic, or if you're just good or if there's the potential
for you to be good. Because I know, like when I started picking,
my whole thing was I could. I wasn't very proficient on the guitar,
but I've always been able to write songs people wanted to hear. And
I was fourteen and doing it. All these people that said Will had something
going on, said, I had something going on, even though it was
you know, ten fifteen years apart. They just recognized here's a youngster that
we're probably going to want to pay attention to for a long while. And
you know, and Will has played, you know, not in just country.
He was how long were you with Blue October? For five years?
He was with Blue October multi platinum rock band for five years. He was
their cat, you know. And so you don't get that on accident.
You don't get that from being lucky. You get that from being great.
And I've known Will a long time. He and I didn't even meet three
music, but I heard of him through music. But we've met through mutual
friends. And now he's with Parker McCollum. And of all the crew,
you and I've had this conversation, I think of all the acts that have
come up in the last ten years, I think Parker is the one that's
going to be in the Country Music Hall of Fame. Is just amazing.
Yeah, he's a superstar, said, I'm just grateful to be there,
but yeah, he's he's the best human ever. Man. I'll say that
about the boss. Thank you, boss. Amen. Well, we hope
he listens to this podcast. Well, but I mean, but look,
he's got you, you know what I mean. He's got he's got JR.
Producing him, John Stewart and uh uh John Randall Stewart, and he's
just got just a great group of humans. You can find great pickers.
There's the name musicians, Gune. It's like easy to find a picker than
it is a plumber. But it's about finding great people that you with whom
you want to create. Well that's you know. When I got hired on,
I was talking to just hey, thank you so much. I'm a
join it, love it man, and uh, He's like, brother,
there was no one else I was going to hire. My biggest fear is
that I get up on stage doing this in front of ten thousand people with
a bunch of guys from Nashville and I don't even know and he's like,
I can't, I can't do that. And it does his culture like seeps
down to the crew where it's a family man, you know, and that's
a blessing, Like you don't get that by someone who's not running it.
Right. So the leadership is really great there. Man. Let's talk about
the relationship with you guys. Do you guys meet when he was playing over
at the Saxon when he was playing there. I didn't meet him at Saxon.
I met him before blow October. I was playing with Wade Bowen and
then uh Wade Boone and Randy Rogers on the whole my Beer record, that
first one. I cut guitar on it and played the tour right and he
would open shows for us, and I remember seeing it. I was like
ten years a little plus ten ten or so years ago and uh, man,
good looking kid, great voice, good songs. He's he's got.
So I told him up at uh Ron Brothers my last year with Wade,
I was like, where you want, Parker is upstream. I'm gonna be
downstream right here, and I see it's all coming for you, son,
and he can't be you really catch it all. And I'm just gonna be
doing good, uh knowing you you're up there? You know so uh And
we all laughed about it, but yeah, it was it's it's it's amazing.
Sounds like a pretty good gig. Now let's talk about you. Mentioned
Alvin Crowe also now Alvin Crowe. I wouldn't be who I am day without
Alvin and Johnny and speaking like, yeah, kids listening to Jimmy Hendricks and
Kirk cob and it's easy to grab onto pop culture right and whatever gets you
started. But they're like, oh, you like Jimmy Hendricks, What do
you think about Freddie King? What do you think about Elmore James? Well,
why don't you learn some buck Owens legs? Why don't you learn some
Haggard songs? How about Bob Wills? You ever heard out of? To
play western swing? A western swing Elden Shamblin, you know, play some
of that rhythm. I'm not a master of any style, but I'm just
having to grow up and hustle for gigs, like I have to play in
the authentic style whatever that song is. So if it's a Latin jazz too,
and you use a harmonic minor skin, I learned a bunch of playing
from Ernie Durrawa to playing with a different guest every week for ten years at
one point, and that would be you'd have a tehana artist and a blues
artist, and then an R and B artist and Latin jazz, and it
was just like you had to go quick every week and learn and so That's
That's how I'm trying and keep it as like you just have to play a
song authentically the way the song needs to be played, nothing more, nothing
less, No ego licks. Used to have ego licks, sometimes still got
them. But you know, give me a fuzz pedal, I'll show you
what I'm talking about. But yeah, that's a you know, that's all
it is, and lifting up that song, telling the story of the song
through the music. And I try and think about that on stage. I
read this Inner Game of Music book that some of Morgan Wallin's camp introduce me
to when we're in the gym together on the tour we did last year,
and uh, he as opposed to thinking about execution, you think about what's
the story of the song. You can think about how it makes you feel.
You can think about I'm just looking at my hands, I'm just hearing
it. All these different senses that aren't self one talk saying hey, hit
the tenth threat B string a note on this solo. And you know what
I mean, Like there are if you're think don't mess up. If you
think don't mess up, you're already messing up. So it just gets you
in a flow, stay a little better. But uh, that's a real
truth of it, like what the music should be played, how the song
is sounds and it the music should represent the story of the song. So
I'm really trying to get that down. I feel like I'm starting to starting
to see it a little more, you know, was it also It's like
John Lee Hooker said, they ain't but twelve notes, you know, And
it is just what I was taught because I was taught not by pickers but
by songwriters. You know, that was the culture in which I came up,
and they said, man, this song is the dictator. It's a
benevolent dictator, right, but it is a dictator, and that is the
boss. Whether you sing it, you pick it, what type of solo
you play, whether you show out a little bit, or whether you lay
back. The song is the dictator. And so often writers forget that,
pickers forget that. But I tell you who never forgets it is the audience.
The audience never forgets that the song is the dictator. And you have
got to always listen to what moves them because they will never lie to you
or and they will never get it wrong either. You know, the collective
of three hundred people, thirty thousand people that you're going to ask you,
is it almost like a runner. It's that certain zone when you're on stage.
Do you get in that certain zone where oh, it's just you know
you're there, you just can't think about It's like what he said, if
you think about it, it's like a quarterback saying, don't throw an interception.
The next pass is intercepted. You know, you just got to flow.
But there again, Will has the natural you know, the day he
was born, God gave him that talent to where he can flow. If
you put his guitar in my hand, you go, man, that's money
Ward and he sold a zillion records and you're going to wait a long time
for that flow to start because I'm not that type of musician. And the
moment, whether he's picking with Alvin Crow or Parker McCollum or Bracken Hell or
Blue October or Wade Bowen, the minute Will starts picking with somebody, immediately
their music is elevated. Well, I'll take that, man, I appreciate
That's what that's what I intend to do, and that's what I try to
do. And yeah, that's that's why I'm so hooked. It's not about
the money. It's not about some people think it's fame. You know,
it's none of that. And it is living in that where you lose sight
of self consciousness. And it was when after my mother died, I was
really angry at God. Right, had a huge bone to pick. I
started playing guitar. I remember when I was like sixteen at the Hole in
the Wall playing a residency I was doing, and we were playing a song
and I started ripping. It's like I went out of my body and I
could play these things that I had never learned and that I'll never be able
to remember or repeat again. And I was like, God, oh,
that's it. And it's not every time. You know, you practice diligently
so you can play par musically, the worst I can do is give you
a good show. The best I can do is beyond me, and that's
not me. And that's where I'm connected, and it's vital. I would
play on the street if I lost everything, I'd still be playing, right,
that's right. Because you talk about it's not about the money, let
me just ask you a question. Playing before there was money, yeah,
yeah, and you played differently now that there is money. Now, you
hope not. You know, I as a writer, but I was around
enough successful writers to know that the second you have a hit, do nothing
different. The worst thing you can do is try to write what made you
successful, because then what you've done is you have removed God from the equation
and put yourself in the equation. And I was blessed to get out of
the God business almost nineteen years ago. That position has been filled by someone
far more qualified. And that's what Will and I are talking about is just
if you can get to a place to always let him in, that's a
good place. Amen. Yeah. On your days off, do you pick
up the guitar every day or pretty much? And there's a balance there,
Like some days I'm real diligent, and I'll be like, I'm clocking in
two hours on steal today and I'm doing an hour on guitar, and then
some days it's twenty thirty minutes, you know, And you have to balance
it out because the flow, when you overdo it, the flow is interrupted
because you're trying to perfect it, and it gets stale and it's not fun
anymore, and you're so you're losing sight of it. Right, You're going
for perfection, which isn't achievable anyway. But yeah, finding that balance of
like keeping the urge and it's fresh versus being refined. So it's like it's
a little bit each way, you know, every time it shifts a little
bit. But you do things when when you're in the tour season and the
shows are happening, Like I have routines that I do daily out there.
Me and Parker started picking guitars about an hour before every show. I'll go
warm up on my steel parts for at least twenty thirty minutes, you know,
stuff like that. And yeah, and also you got to take care
of yourself, gym running, all that sort of stuff. You know,
I'm sober, so I'm not putting poison in my body. All that keeps
me maintained. And if you play differently before the money or whatever, it's
it is just a little differences, like, well, you've got this and
I can do this. How do I maintain this right? And that's the
main goal. If I can maintain this, that's the bottom line. And
then how do I get a little bit better? You know, that's always
on the agenda too. But you can't burn out, you know, I've
been doing it a long time, twelve to I'll be forty soon. So
almost twenty eight years, you're forty. I'll be forty this year. I'm
thirty nine. I'm not. Don't sound forty, No, no, no,
no, I'm kidding. Alternative. I was thinking, like twenty eight,
twenty nine. I've been doing this a long time, brother, Yeah,
a long time. So I might not be as talent as money says.
I just never quit. And you tell a lot, but you still
poisoning yourself almost nine years ago too, and that yeah ten, no,
I'll tell you like almost Yeah, life got better super quick, right,
And really the journey started about thirteen years ago. I had a bad breakup
and I went off the rails for two weeks, got back on the horse,
and it's it's been good ever since. But uh yeah, that's how
that goes. So it was the breakup. Get do you know why I
took dope because I'm a drug addict? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'll blame it on the breakup though, you know. Okay, Now,
what would you tell any twelve year old kid who's just picked up a
guitar? What advice would you give? You can give advice to a younger
you, what would you say, First of all, listen, just listen
to what they're telling you and what they're playing. You know, that's the
biggest way you learn is listening, and that's the best way you play too.
Is like everybody's always worried about their tone and how they sound, then
you're already not going to fit in with the band. If you're listening to
the drummer and the bass player, you're gonna feel it and you're gonna play
the right things, just as a reflex. So listening is the most important
skill that you can probably learn. And I know some musicians read and that's
great. I can read charts. I can do that and that's great.
His reference. But the other day we were working up a song, we
did a Toby Keith song because he died, you know, and we're working
up a soundcheck. My guitar tech comes out with the chart. He's like,
you want this. I'm like, no, I'd rather mess it up
without a chart than play it stale. And so I try and get you
know, with doing that Earni gig, I got to where I could listen
to a song about three times and be able to and had the arrangement had
it down, you know, then you got to go into detail. How
far detail you know that there's there's different degrees of every gig that you have
to realize they might be paid to kind of improv, improv a little bit
more and do my own thing over this, or is there record licks that
this one has to go there and knowing how to how to do that.
But also, I mean, if you're trying to do an established gig,
there's a lot of rehearsing that goes in, and there's lighting cues and there's
like pyro cues and all this stuff that if you play a different part,
it doesn't go with the cue of the deal. And we don't play the
tracks and we don't do none of that. The lock Sums band's really into
an arrangement. But I mean you've got to you gotta have some of that.
So different gigs require different skill sets. But if you listen, you'll
you'll know. But also like pickers, they come to depend on your licks
and you come to compair on their licks, not that you're playing a record,
but just to show them the respect of the of the show that Okay,
we hit a big crash here and so you got to hit that big
power chord that goes with the crash. And if you decide not to,
it just it just it disrupts the flow. But but also it's like,
you know about reading charts, It's like that's like reading the map. You
know, it's like, yeah, that will show you how to get from
here to there, but that has I will say this about charts, and
I don't. I don't read shape notes. I just read number of charts.
Uh. I'm not great at shape notes either. I can do it
a little bit. I can't. It's really stupid. Not stupid. Sheet
music, okay, like in the church sheet music, I have no those
are dots. Looks like somebody dots and lines. O'kay somebody spilled some mank.
But I can read nationale number charts. I'm real good at that.
But but no magic is derived from the chart. That's only that's from God.
And that's the pickers relationship with God. Yeah, yeah, yes,
where do we go? And most of the time you can pretty much prickling
country and blues. You can smell where it goes. Jazz sometimes you need
to. There's a difference between the one and the one major seventh but you
learn to kind of smell it or feel it if you're worth a damn,
you know, but we'll okay, I mean from the Broken Spoke to the
Moody Center, that's an entirely different style of playing. I mean, here,
you've got the crowd Moody Center. The last time I saw you play
with Parker. I mean, like I say, you've got the fireworks going
off, you've got the lights, you've got everything that doesn't distract you at
all. You can't let it wait. Well, sometimes you know that's just
what you know, that fire goes off behind you two feet and you're like,
oh, we flinched a little bit. I didn't miss a note.
Okay, you know it's a it's so yeah, some of that can,
but it's more show business, is what I'm saying, than here at the
Spoke. Oh for sure. No. And then that's all part of it,
you know, engaging fans and creating an experience, and that's what people
are doing. You know, they're paying their harder and money to see something
and feel something different. And the more elements you can use to evoke that
emotion of the music, than all the better. And that's all that is
it's just enhancers. But you know, we had a show happened. It
was rainy. They couldn't do lights, they couldn't do the video walls,
they couldn't even do our risers. So we just set up like a band
of a club and we played the music and the people loved it. And
like, if you can't do that, then all that stuff, don't don't
start there, you know, don't go get the fancy leather jacket and the
sleeve of tattoos. Moved to La with a Les Paul and think you're gonna
be Slash. Learn to play like Slash first, then start dressing like him,
you know, And that's you know, I keep itself up. I'm
a black T shirt Levi's boots kind of guy. When I played with October,
I where Converse or Doc Martin sometimes because they're a little edgier, you
gotta look look the part a little bit. Bill Ham I worked with him
when I was twenty, and that was when I first started doing like some
arenas and bigger shows, from doing clubs to that. And he was easy
Tops manager and producer for like almost forty years. And he would always tell
me, like, you know, when you go out look, be ready
to play on stage like everything. And so to me, that's like some
guys take that over the top and they're wearing feather bow is out and Doyle
does this thing. I love it. He only he can pull that off.
But me, it's like, what can I dress in every day?
That's simple. I can still get up there. I got my black teacher
jeans, right yeah. And it's me so simplicity in that. But uh,
you know that's something too, you know, it's it takes everything,
Like you can't go up there unkempt, and people take you seriously, you
know, with an attitude and guitar and like be a professional, show up,
like brush your teeth, cut your nails, you know, be ready,
like show them you're ready and they'll they'll respect that. Such a great
conversation with Will, and we'll continue with part two for conversation with Will Neck
on Tales from the Broken Spoke next week. In the meantime, listen to
some past episodes are all waiting for you right now where their free iHeartRadio app.
Tales from the Broken Spoke is recorded live at The Broken Spoke in Austin,
Texas, hosted by Country Radio Hall of fame broadcaster Bog Picket and Monty
Warden, recorded, mixed down and produced by Mike rivera