You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio
in the UK and around the world. You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio
Network. Hello, is that the famous astronova, Sir Patrick Hall, It
is much so any mules on the space front. ROUFS has just designed and
developed five igantic stead of the art rocket ships. All members have pollowed,
along with the American Senate, have first class tickets of all them. You
see, they're told they're going to the moon. Old where exactly where they
going? Sir Patrick? Then you are normally discover plitiously astronomosis, a huge
black hole. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a wonderful gentleman with us today.
His name is Mike Fiortio. Is that how he's t announce it?
It's enough, fioris Mike fo and we're here to discuss his book For All
We Know, which is released in April, A wonderful book. I haven't
finished reading it, but I've started reading it and it's absolutely beautiful. You
have a lovely way of writing from the eye factor eyes worked through his eyes.
Do you know it's interesting, Mike, because before we begin I've adopted
that myself, using the eye, and I tend to feel Although people state
that writing that way through the eyes of your character is restrictive, I don't
think it is because it gives more. I believe it gives more of an
emotional buzz to the character himself. You gain more of a feeling from the
character than from looking at it at a perspective, you know, from a
distance. So right, okay, So this book, for all we know,
I think it's beautifully written. Ladies and Gentlemen, comes out in April,
and can you tell us a little bit about it? Right? I
know that it's to do with UFOs, but I get the feeling as I'm
reading it it's more to do with oneself. This this power is joined between
us, and it's and it's not entirely what we think it is. Can
you explain about your book and what drove you to write it? Sure?
Well, thank you, and first of all, thank you so much for
having me on. It's such a pleasure to be here. And yeah,
it was a very conscious decision to choose the first person. And it's funny
because people will read it and say, well, it's it's that a memoir
and I wanted it to read like a memoir. Of course it has autobiographical
details, but it's not a memoir. It's for the reasons that you you
stated that there's an urgency and there's an intimacy. It was very important from
me to to try to write this as beautifully and poetically as I could,
So that was very important. Yeah, I do. I'm a music journalist.
I'll get to the book. I'll get to the book, I promise.
I'm a music journalist, and I often write. I'll write in the
first person. So it's a little it might take someone a little bit by
surprise that you're writing so much, you're putting infusing so much of yourself in
the writing, but I think it personalizes it and it depends me to you
and now we're in a conversation. I've done writing in the third person as
well, of course, so the intention, you know, just the very
title itself for all we know. I make it very clear from the outset
that this character is very skeptical, and I wanted that to be a theme
throughout the book. He's very skeptical. Well, he's probably not trustworthy either.
I wanted to make the character a little suspect, but he's skeptical.
He has a hard time believing what people say are true. He's he wants
to mhm. It's about a spiritual journey. So to me, the UFO
path is a spiritual journey once you come upon the revelation, and you know,
a lot of it ron comes to me through dreams. That's that's where
I make deep connections. I have very powerful UFO dreams. I very I
keep a dream journal, but my UFO dreams are very powerful and a lot
of the source of the book comes from that, as actually other books as
well. So it's it's about how what I wanted also to express is that.
And I've seen you know, senior documentary interdimensional connections. Yes, and
uh so, and I saw that just last week, I think. But
there's so much we have, there's a lot of consensus. So to me,
it's not just this shiny object up in the sky. That's one incarnation,
that's one manifestation. It's also very much about the every day, the
opportunity every day to have spiritual transformation. Yes, that could occur in different
ways. It could occur through could occur through meditation, it could occur through
being in a church and seeing the magnificence of the interior of a church,
hearing the music. It could occur through taking a psychedelic substance. Yes,
so you do mention them in acquire a lot in your bookcas I had about
one of his friends suggesting demons and then they appeared, didn't they And he
got absolutely ticked off. You know that was beautifully Yes, I won't,
I won't spoil it for the lists. Well, thank you. And the
idea was to it's not to sensationalize these substances. In fact, I think
they're very sacred, and you look at cultures around the world who have consumed
sacred plants and different many different kinds of plants. Yes, I agree,
absolutely, And it's just another vehicle, you know, dreams, that's another
vehicle. So I wanted to capture the in a sense, not just the
one instance of beings entering into your space, into your apartment, into your
world, although that also may happen too. I wanted to express to people
there are many ways to approach this subject because I think that I understand people's
skepticism. I understand it, you know, and it's complicated, very complicated.
I wanted to give people an opportunity to approach this subject with an open
mind, maybe with a sense of humor, maybe relate to the character,
and then perhaps consider this subject in a different way. So that was really
my goal, and I didn't want it to be academic. I didn't want
it to be a lecture. I wanted to do it through a narrative to
telling your story before you go on. I think that's very interesting because I
think the consensus of it now it was in the seventies, but it was
dismissed. There was an author who suggested the fact that in fact, a
number of them, Jack Valley is one of them. But the fact that
this is not entirely what we think we're dealing with, and I personally have
come across a few signatures of this phenomena, we'll call it a phenomena which
betray the fact that it's not what we think it is. So I think
it's beautiful how you've you shaped your book around this, this person, this
character who has a mother who is very practical, she's only interested in what
you can get on the table, and a father who is pleased that he's
looking into space. But the same token, a practical kind of science to
it and not the exotic. So I think this character you have has got
so much against him and he's going through this life, you know, taking
also the psychedelics, which as an actual fact, I believe does break down
reality from here because if you've composed this beautifully, because what you're stating is
that we see the world reality is in us. This is how we view
the world, so it's us. So when you take these substances, it
breaks down that kind of reality and it's always reshaped to different kinds of perspectives.
But what's interesting is the UFO film. What you're stating is it can
be many different things depending on state of mind you see. This is this
is how I think it works. And I think what you've done in this
book of yours for all we know, is beautifully and I'm ladies and gentlemen,
it's already receiving love letters from people who are reading it. It's addictive
and it's going to be absolutely if. It's a beautiful book. The cover
is gorgeous as well. The artwork. It's of course I love artwork.
So what compelled you to write it? So I started? I have to
confess, you know, first of all. I just to give some context,
I was a philosophy major when I went to college. Undergraduate, I
did go back to school and I got my master's in literature. What compelled
me to write it? I've long been interested, very interested in science,
have read about science, have also been a science fiction fan. Yes,
very much interested in the spiritual path as much as you know, I've slipped
all my life as well. As my ex wife said when we broke up,
you know, she became a Buddhist. And I said, oh,
you know, I was always into Buddhism. You know, didn't you know
that when we were together. She said, you were a bad Buddhist.
So it made that disrespect have a punch, isn't it. Well, you
know, and it's true. You know, I was young, it was
naive, I was inexperienced. Yeah, all these things. So I would
say about you know, when when the New York Times report came out,
the Nimits report, you know, I had just begun getting interested at that
time. I hadn't seriously read on the subject, to be honest. Yeah,
when that report came out and then other, uh other reports surfaced,
I then began Also, I should say in New York City where I live.
There, we've had these Anomalist conferences. So there's a James I and
Doli A and uh some other folks have put on these wonderful conferences where folks
like Jeff Kreipel, Whitley Streeber, Dana Pasuka have have come and given lectures
and they've been transformative for me. But I began reading a lot, and
I began researching the topic becoming and that hasn't stopped. So this is yes.
Now, as my wife will say, once I get latched onto something,
I become completely obsessed. I'm the same as you, and that's as
you. Yeah. And and what I found, you know, what I
found round is that you've written playfully, you know, about the UFO subject
about encounters. And you know, I loved your book. I wanted to
read more accounts that are relatable to a broader readership. Yes, And because
I find so if you have a book that's if you have a book that's
an you know, an alien encounter book, there there's a whole group of
people that just won't look at it. So this book is published by Loyola
Press, it's university Press, and it's published as fiction and this is very
intentional because a publisher will not entertain a first person account, as you know,
they just won't entertain. And even even the paranormal publishers, publishers that
publish and uthology subject will not entertain that. You have to self published.
My only issue with that is that that then that will neglect a whole universe
of readers. And what I'm trying to do is to broaden the subject.
You know, I when I bring up the as you know, you've been
at this a long time, longer than I have. You know, when
you bring up the subject, you get giggles, you know, you often
get you know, it's it's the nature of the subject, the taboo,
Yes, taboo, it's very taboo, you know. And it's because it
goes right at the heart, you know, what you talk about in your
documentary. It goes right at the heart of what is the point of life?
What is the point of existence? Who are we? What is this
universe? And that for me, that whole was punctured, you know,
I would say beginning with taking a psychedelic substance, which is is a modality
of you're penetrating the interdimension. You're penetrating what is suffusing us at this moment.
The word psychedelic means mind manifesting, So Alice Huxley and Humphrey Osmond were
very thoughtful about the creation of that word to not make it something out there.
It's not hallucinations, it's it's you're manifesting what is here. Yes,
we are living, you know, in our science is telling this that now,
as you discussed in the documentary, we are perhaps well at least,
science is telling us today that there are dimensions that are suffusing within our space,
but we don't have the capacity to see it, to see it as
one way to experience it. Perhaps we do. Some people do, like
you, you had experiences, some people have dreams, some people have visions
and experiences. There are different ways that this can manifest. Yes, that's
right. I mean what's interesting, And I think reality itself is fascinating,
Mike, because it's how you perceive it. You know. Let's think of
a child who is third world compared to a child who's middle class, all
well off. Their worlds are completely different, see it, completely different.
These psychedelics which people take shift consciousness to another degree, some kind of shift,
and that alternates reality. That's what fascinates me. It's like recently I
did a lot of thought or time travel. Well, you see, I
believe that time travel is absolutely utterly impossible. For one logical fact, time
does not exist. It is a construct. It is a construct, it's
man made. There is something else. I've mentioned this in a book that's
coming out. I've written in July. There is something else. But you
know, you get flat for that. So when you were speaking about people,
the various people who would some go to the actual raw account whereas others
will go to the fictitious account, it's the same with that. You have
these people sitting on fence and they have these little boxes. They say,
no, you're wrong. Time travel is a reality. It is not.
It is not I stake my life on it. That's not. But there
is something else is to do with reality. So I think it's fascinating that
in this book you're exploring all these emotions and the way forward. I feel
that your character is kind of lost to begin with. He's not sure what
to do, and he finds a footing. And I think it's beautiful because
so many people can associate with that. Even I could when I was younger.
Yeah, I think we we like a character that we are smarter than
you know, we when the characters too smart, you kind of get annoyed.
I wanted him to be dopey. I wanted him to be inaccurate.
I mean, frankly, I feel I myself. You know, I am
limited. You know, I'm not certainly not perfect in pact thinking. And
we are all we are all working on a paradigm that is not complete.
And that's that's a big part of the book. You you know, we
talked about. It's interesting. I read that Terrence McKenna when he was experimenting
with he went to the Amazon and he was taking various psychedelic substances. But
he met a shaman. Well there was there was a shaman who consumed ayahuasca
and then would vomit it out and would spread it on a rock. And
this was something that was known to be rumored to have happened. It wasn't
just he was told one person, yeah, and he would spread this out
on a rock and then he could kind of navigate space time. He could
kind of you know, if you think a level three civilization, it is
said can can navigate, can re engineer space time. A level three,
civilization can use the power of the core of galaxies. So you know,
the way we might use a particle accelerator to smash atoms together and make see
fantastic things things happen. But imagine if you could harness the power of the
sun, which is the first level. We're not even there yet, and
if you could harness the core of galaxies that kind of power. It's often
said, and you know Neil DeGrace Tyson, who I think most of us
probably want to, you know, give a big back end slap to them
that He'll say, well, you know, it's too far. The distances
are too far to travel. You can't travel from the nearest star. Is
it would take us nine thousand years to get there or whatever thirty thousand years
to reach the center of our own galaxy, which is a milky Way at
life speed? He absolutely correct, yes, right, So, but you
know that's one way of looking at it. You know, a thousand years
ago, did they think that an airplane travel was possible? You know,
did they think going to the moon was possible? We didn't even know what
the configuration of planets were. So you know, today we at least we
think I think there are six septillion stars in the observable universe, and that's
the observable that's as far as our telescopes can see. Yes, the universe
we believe is about fifteen billion years old. We believe that the Earth is
about five billion years old. So I don't understand why a scientist like neither
the Grays, Tyson and other scientists can't imagine why couldn't there be civilizations that
are ten thousand and twenty thousand million years two million years ahead of us and
imagine what they could do. Imagine what we just compare ourselves to only just
a few hundred years ago in the Great Advancement. So while I'm very scientific
like you, you're a very scientific thinking person. A very scientific thinking person,
in my opinion, should believe that scientists are moving target. You can
do magnificent things. We're on this skype call and this incredible technology that can
bring you to me connecting each other in real time over an ocean, and
here we are seeing each other talking and it's a very useful tool. But
we always have to keep in mind that these are they don't tell the complete
story, that's right. So there's a what is it called there's a book
by Stephen Weinberg and it's called Dreams of a Final Theory. So Steven Weinberg
won the Nobel Prize in physics. He wrote a book called The First Three
Minutes where he talks about the Big Bang and he talks about the kind of
evolution of the universe. We can't get to a certain point in time because
we don't have the energy to simulate it. But I thought it was interesting
that he title of his book, one of his books is dreams of a
Final Theory, which to me is kind of silly, you know, because
your theories will even beings that maybe a million years ahead of us. Maybe
yet at an incomplete state of knowledge. Yeah, really, the Big Bang
hypothesis cannot be proved at all. The James Web telescope was sent out and
fall back some disturbing data that the galaxies formed much quicker on the edge that
what Ees did. That suggests to me that we're on the boundaries of another
kind of cosmic universe. We're brushing along side something else. And the Big
Bang hypothesis is I believe, and I don't mean to be crude in stating
this, I believe it's an easy fub off of creation, because if there
was a big Bang, what was there before that? What is the blackness?
I know some people attributed to dark matter, but what exactly is that?
What contains it? Are we in a vacuum? Is it endless?
Is it infinite? Are you're absolutely right, Mike what you stated. We're
just too young, We're too immature. With all the sophisticated equipment we have,
with all the technology, which is magnificent, and I'm not knocking them
for that. The humanity can create some beautiful, amazing things as well as
dark things. But with all that, we're still it's like just evolving the
first stages of evolution. And of course the mention of beings of the twenty
or thirty thousand years ahead of us, or perhaps even two or three million
years ahead of us, we haven't met them yet, oh hell, allegedly
allegedly allegedly, because I believe the powers that be would like us to believe
that, because there can only be one power to control us, and that's
humanity itself. So I think anything brushing aside the exotic is Let's take an
example, the congressional hearing about the UFOs crashed sources which I believe are real.
I believe several of them might well be absolutely credible. We have no
proof, but it is credible. Roswell. I believe something happened there because
of what they stated, and then they reversed it. I can understand why
they reversed it. But that said, they have these fossilized sources and dead
pilots. But the thing is they can't let it out because that would show
that there's a power above us that they have no control over. They don't
like it. We look at war, these petty arguments we have. If
we can't have what we want, or if we disagree with someone, we
threaten nuclear So you see where we go with it. So I think you're
absolutely right when you're stating that we're just the first stages of evolution. And
it is beautiful to think outside the box about space and time, which we
have no understanding of what space itself is. Time. I think, as
I've mentioned just now, is quite irrelevant because it's based on the human constructs.
The universe does not pander to time mm hmm. Yeah. And and
the you know governments, I mean, they're the concern is the United States,
prime example you know, the most important thing is the stock market.
That's they want you to keep buying your you know, your fuzzy socks and
whatever new gadgets. You know, that's it's it's the bottom line, it's
the quarter. And so this, this pair disturbs that. And a couple
of things I wanted to mention, is that part of the reason I think
why the government, you know, I'm not so keen on the notion of
disclosure, partly because they don't know what to say. They don't understand it.
So it's kind of a frightening thing for them to say, well,
we are where the powers that be, we control the guys, we control
the domain of our country, the parameters. There is something occurring by the
way public that we do not understand. We think that this phenomena, now
I'm just imagining what the eleven o'clock news would say. This phenomena is perhaps
has as much to do with your own consciousness as it has to do with
objects unidentified perceived in space. In other words, what we're saying is that
your mind constructs reality, public viewer, And so I think that's unsettling.
You'll notice that people like you know this. So this is remedial for you.
But people like David Grush, he's not gone to jail. I mean,
he's what he has stated would be it would put him in jail for
the statements that he's made. Basically, the government is saying, well,
go ahead and say stuff. You know, perhaps they're letting things eke out
a bit just to warm everyone up because people are looking for a big bang
of that, and I think that it's it's perhaps that will come, but
it's also it's a paradigm shift in your own thinking. And as much as
when we and I wanted this to be the case and true in the book,
try to describe it as much as it's out there, it's in here,
but it's also right here, and there's all this intelligence. You know.
I woke up yesterday, I walked out, and it's where we're We're
at that place where we're getting a little touch of spring. So I live
in New York City. It's not known for its you know, woods and
the bird's population, although we actually do have a pretty I live in Brooklyn.
We have a pretty diverse bird population. Also because you have the birds
are you know, migrating. We have a big park, a couple of
huge parks that they come and they hang out at. Yeah, but the
look at all of the intelligence around us. So we hear birds tweeting.
You know. I only started listening to birds during COVID, be honest,
because it was quiet. Yes, I started to look up at the trees.
I was riding bikes, my wife and boys. We were riding bikes.
I was looking up at the trees. I was looking at birds.
You know. It's funny. I would say to my wife. You know,
I only knew the word bird, but she could identify the types of
birds. I only knew the word tree, but she could identify types of
trees. But I became interested and as much as we are looking out there
and then here identifying recognizing the sacredness of life around us, the sacredness of
the sovereignty of rivers, of trees, of air of life. I think
it's part of that spiritual journey, part of that path of There is life,
teeming and intelligence everywhere, and we keep looking with telescopes and all of
these other ways to manifest it. But it's right here, it's right here
and now. Yet the space when we look out, most of it's dead,
you know, it sounds terrible. Most of it's dead. All the
planets are dead dust. You know. There's speculation that's life on one of
Jupiter's moons, I think Titan or one of them. I can't remember.
There's life, but it's it's heresy, aquatic life, very primitive. Always
has to be very primitive, you know. It's like, but when we
look out, it's dead. And William Shatness said something very interesting. I
love William, I mean he was our captain Kirk, a kid him.
Love that gentleman. When he went in Jeff Bezo's rocket and he went up
with the team and then came back down, it's something very interesting. He
was very emotional first of all, and then he said it was just death
out there. There was nothing. It was just death. And you could
see him feeling so blessed to touch Mother Earth again. You know. He
said, we have to look after Mother Earth because this is all we have,
as we know and as it stands. But I thought that was interesting
of Captain Kirk stating that, you know, but he had a point.
He had a point, and exactly what you said, Mike, you said,
you know, we're looking out there, but it's here. Everything is
here. All the keys to our problems are here, it's just finding them.
The atom itself they don't fully understand. That's why they have the hydron
collider. They're trying to understand the glue that holds us together matter creation,
and it's going to take them a long time. Because Sir Patrick Moore stated
something very interesting, a very famous astronomer who sadly passed. He was a
famous, very well respected gentlemen. Here's the chat with who will the monocle?
He said that he said that the more answers we get, the more
problems are thrown back at us. So it's that we're constantly learning or adapting
or trying to revise ourselves or our Thinking's beautif we poke what you said,
yes, yeah, and you I think we're we're talking about something so similar,
which is and it's it's a central theme of the book is the ego.
And now let's take that ego could be a national ego. Let's talk
about my ego and the individuated ego. It believes it's in control. If
we believe we're in control, we believe we cast a net over our reality.
It's navigable, it's measurable. It's mathematical. I can go about my
day in a logical way, uh, manifesting the reality I want. And
there's a lot of truth to that. You know, we we do,
we do purchase paid and it is it requires our our urgency and our effort
and intention. However, you know, the ego is this little tiny thing
from the rest of it is this consciousness. Yes, and that's true for
an I think the nation's identity as well. It tries to wrap itself down
into this narrow box of what a national identity is. If you exploded that
box and you said, well, we're all brothers and sisters and we're a
part of a family of life, of where we're woven into this fabric of
life on this planet. And consciousness. The word I think it's in is
it in uh Navajo or DNA language. The word for land is the same
word for mind. Yes, that's the tribe that no out tribe skin will
ranch the ladies and gentlemen. Mike has referred to one of the tribes who
are famous for having placed a curse the Witches. Have never heard tribe of
placing a curse on the land due to arrival, so yeah, yeah,
yeah, and so, and it's interesting. You'll see indigenous cultures around the
world much more open to these concepts, to these ideas. There's a I'm
trying to remember her name, a book called Sky People, and she is
she's a professor of education, i think at Montana State, and she's half
Indigenous, and she went throughout the Southwest and also into South America. She
speaks Spanish, so she can get so far because you're also encountering the indigenous
local languages. But she would talk to people, and you go into a
village, maybe they'd be afraid to talk about it. You know, first
of all, they're afraid of outsiders, and they as they should be.
Yes, you know, I mean you see, you know a non indigenous
person walk in. You know you are they bringing disease? And are they
bringing whatever weapons? What do they want to take from us? Yes,
but even amongst themselves, because there were there could be a stereotype or you
could you could become blemished with these with these statements. But people would tell
her about encounters a long note that something went appear and much It's much in
the same as the literature that we read that's available to us. And people
that we know that have written, including yourselves, have written about encounters with
with other intelligence, other consciousness, and another way to put it. So
I thought it was it. I think it's interesting that I remember reading Carlos
Castaneda, uh was writing, you know, don don Juan, if you've
ever read those books, they're they're quite good. They're really fun too,
because they're written really uh you know, kind of plateau like Plato, where
the narrator Carlos Castaneda is sort of naive and and he asks a lot of
stupid questions and Don Juan kind of educates him, he schools him. But
one of the things Carlos Casna says is, you know, look at that
poor indigenous kid living in the dirt and without clothes, and you know,
I feel so bad for him. He doesn't have all of the the luxuries
of life. And Don Wan says, then he's probably better off than you
are, and he doesn't have all that all that heavy bag that you bring,
so you should you should be looking up to him an interesting perspective,
Yes, that is. It's very interesting, isn't it. It certainly does
put things into perspective, doesn't it. It's also do with mind. Do
you know it's funny talking about that about our outlook on it, our consciousness.
I want to ask you this, right, I found that whenever more
than not, if I get up positive and feeling really positive, I'm going
to have a good day. I've stated this many times before. It always
seems like there's some nasty monster waiting in a corner watching, and more than
not, yet more than that, I'm brought down. So I have to
contain my excitement lest I do anyone any injury. You know, it's like
that. That's the philosophy, and it confuses me. I kept thinking about
this, What am I doing wrong? If you're so excited and you're so
excitable, people don't like it. It's as if you have to be lowered
to a particular level, which is preferable. And I have found this again
and again, and it reminds me of a mirror reflects everything. That's why
I wondered whether John D. Queen Elizabeth, the first advisor and counsel,
when he was practicing the Dark Arts later on in life, well, he
didn't think they were dark art. He believed he was summoning angels through the
mirror scribe. But they turned out to be demons. You see, whether
I mentioned this, it seems like everything is always reflected or rebounded. I
dare say, if he'd asked for spears and war, what would have happened?
You know, I'm not stating the obvious what we think, but it's
just just very strange when you're talking about that. You're talking about consciousness and
the way in which we feel and think. Have you ever experienced that yourself?
With what I've been stating about you, you're all excited and you're happin
there is it or I'm always brought down. Something happens and you can feel
it. I can feel it. It's like something latching on or watching your
being watched. That's it, You're being watched by an external force. Now
people will stay as I have done. That if you dive or delve into
the darker aspects, you're attracting that. I don't believe it, because with
a coin you have to know both signs. You have to see both sides
are good and the bad. What are your thoughts on that? My house?
Yeah, for all we know, for all we know, so I'm
I'm right there with you. There's it's interesting in Italian. When you ask
someone how they're doing, what you may answer You may say mika mala,
which is just a little bad. Yeah, you know it's because you don't
want to you don't want to call too much attention. And I think that's
true another cultures too. Humility is important. Humility, uh is is very
important to recognize that you, you are not towering above people, that you
are a flawed and we do have dark sides for sure. When you you
consume a psychedelic substance that, as you've read in one of the stories,
that it becomes out of control, whereas it could be in the background in
our everyday life. Maybe it makes us have a bad mood or it affects
our performance of something. Yes, and it's and certainly bad things happen.
Bad things happened to people, and without any reason. It's you know,
you talk about a dead universe, a big, gigantic dead universe with dust
and you know, darkness, and you can have a wonderful, happy family
together and someone gets hit by a bus, you know, or suddenly dies
and it's such a tragedy. Why why this great, nice, beautiful person,
Why what a great dad? I don't know, if it's just like
people. There's consciousness and other intelligences that can have other motives and could be
a trickstery. That is for sure. There's no doubt that there is a
trickster element. Yes, so, I mean just in the way that the
phenomena engages us. I like what Whitney Strieber says that the governments have taken
this notion of a cryptic that it is cryptic and enigmatic because it has presented
itself as such. Yes, it is, perhaps it is. The consciousness
is kind of like a con you know, it is both. It is
more than one thing. It is not just binary a zero or a one,
and we kind of we have to feel comfortable it's this or it's that.
It's either in here or it's out there, and it could be both,
right, yes, it could be both. And to observe the thing
in itself with what Con said, Emmanuel Con said that ding I'm sick if
I say it correctly in German. My German is not so good. If
you observe the thing in itself, we can't in our current state. We
mostly don't. We approach things with the paradigm, with the constructs, with
the layers of learning and experience that we have. Yes, the models that
were model and I think even Streeber talks about he was getting letters from people
and the letters are amazing. After he wrote the book Communion, and there's
one one story that he talks about where a family has an encounter. Each
family member has a different experience, but there's something that happens. And what's
interesting is that what he says, when we see something we have not seen
before, we look in the catalog of history, what have we seen that's
like it? And then we associate that with this this phenomena that we haven't
we don't have a category for. Yeah, you know. So for instance,
when people looked at it this sky and they saw something, they called
it a chariot, you know, and it was a chariot with fire,
you know. And you know, as as time has moved on, it's
become more technological. Yes, interesting that as of a certain point after Kenneth
Arnold right, which I think he termed paying saucer, and you know,
it became shiny. It seemed to look like. There's a passage in the
book that, uh, it came from a dream. If I can talk
about it, I wrote, I had my dream journal somewhere. I won't
go fetch it, but i'll tell you it's in the book, and it's
a dream I had that, And they're they're always very dramatic there. It's
very powerful. This the power of this. I saw this kind of cigar
shaped collection of objects coming toward me what looked like spaceships. Very powerful.
Yes, they were kind of shooting off. And then it was followed by
these kind of halogen type circular lights that were kind of UFOs, but there
were kind of halogen lamplights in the plus and they kind of shot off after
that. And then what I saw next was a pine tree, but the
pine tree was lying flat. It wasn't lying tall, it was lying flat.
And this whole thing was moving majestically and very powerfully slowly toward me.
And what I thought to myself is that the phenomena wanted me, was presenting
itself to me the way I thought I wanted to see it. Yes,
And I was thinking, well, this was during the writing of the book
and deep thinking about all this stuff. And here I'm talking about You'll read
in the book that there's a lot of nature in the book. There's a
lot of discovery of pree types and bird types and so on, and so
was this the in my dream, the phenomenon was saying, well, this
is how you this is how you want to see it. I'm presenting it
in a way that you're thinking about it so that it's comprehensible to you.
Yes, that was just to me. Yeah, I have a word for
it. I've created a word for it. I've just recently red an article
and it's called the Atomic Magician. I write that down, the Atomic Magician.
I mentioned it in the book as well, that it's coming out in
July, I think the first. But we all have names for it.
But that's BEAUTI definitely put because Philip had a dream. It's interesting you should
say that because Philip, my brother, had a dream and they were showing
him these UFOs and then they all turned to rubbish. It was just bits
of rubbish on the floor. I'm so pleased that you keep this dream diary
because they very important, because I believe, I do feel or suspect that
something, either the phenomena or the spirit world or the afterlife, whatever we
wish to call it, is trying to give you subtle messages, little puzzles.
I don't think it will ever in our lifetime reveal what we're actually dealing
with, whether it is part of us, it's part of the dead,
whether it's actual UFOs or a superior consciousness above us. But you know,
it's just interesting to take. You're the author of many other books as well,
and you've won a number of awards, which is absolutely smashing and congratulations
on that. The Mescalito riding his white horse word for didn't you? I
found that out? But your themes with your books you explore completely the psychology
of us and in terms of not only of science fiction, but in terms
also of you know, what it does for us, what can be applied,
but we can learn from it. And as you said, it's us,
it's exploring, it's finding out who you are, you know, who
actually you are. And I think that's beautiful in your book for all we
know, because that's I think where that's going, Where the boy is actually
discovering who he is. You know, I think it's absolutely marvelous. Your
thoughts, May I ask Mike on the spirit world or we call it a
spirit, we give it a name, as a said, models and things
heaven. After that What are your thoughts on that. Do you believe there
is such a thing. Yeah? Absolutely. The book Mascalado writing His White
Horse. It won an award distinguished Local Word and Spirituality. And if I
can talk about that just for a second, because it's very much related to
what we're talking about here. So I do music journalism. So I meet
a musician, I'll talk to musician, I'll write up an article talk about
their music. And you see that in the book. You'll see that there's
a love of music and every opportunity I get to talk about it. And
I met this musician, Peter Rowan. He's a bluegrass musician. He played
with the father of bluegrass, Bill Monroe, and he's now eighty two.
I met him, and Peter Rowan is a very He's an interesting person.
He's a musician. He's also very much into wisdom traditions. Did some of
his music. Well, what I encountered, what I discovered and looking at
his catalog of music is a quest for spirituality throughout his musical career. So
as I was, I interviewed him. We had a few conversations, but
I started to have dreams. I started to have these very arresting dreams with
him in them, and also with encounters with other other beings as well.
Yes, And I said to him, I said, Peter, I'm getting
this storm of images and things coming to me. I have a book idea
which would be interested. And I presented it to him and he goes,
well, all right, sounds good, and that he was open minded and
worked with me. But that that book is that line is taken from one
of his songs, Mescalito riding his White Horse, right and so, And
of course Mescalito is from Carlos Castaneda, So that's the Mescallito is the entity
that you He's the protector that Carlos Casteneda encounters in his mess when experiences.
Yes, but yes, very much, I do think there there is a
there is a spirit world. And when I was writing the book, my
mother was she was very sick ill, and she died during the writing of
the book, and I put that in the book. And the reason I
put that in the book too is there's the perceived boundary of life and death,
and when you're very close to someone in the throes of dying, that
that boundary becomes very blurred. And yes, I have there are four siblings
and one of four, and as my mother was, she was in the
downwards spiral and transitioning. You know, I'm the least kind of let's say,
the least ideologically Catholic. I'm the least I'm I'm not a good Catholic.
Let's with that way of my family. And yet I became in charge
of me and my sister, who's also the least good Catholic of all of
us, became in charge of prayers. You know, I was leading them.
I gave the eulogy at my mom's funeral. Ah, I think that
my spiritual journey has meandered, it has been confused, it has it has
been doubtful. There's a great quote Thomas Carlyle. There's a Scottish Victorian philosopher
writer, there is more faith in honest doubt than in all of the creeds.
You know, Yes, I like that idea. And when you struggle
with your belief, I couldn't easily accept things. So I remember, you
know, with my father having a conversation about religion, and of course you
know here I am. I'm a seventeen year old smarty pants. I think
I know it all, and maybe I'm in college at this point. And
now I've been reading you know, philosophers, and you know, my my
perceived sophistication, you know, was rearing its ugly head, and I'm sort
of critiquing his point of view, and he just kept saying, well,
I believe, I believe, and he just kept coming back to consciousness.
Let's say knowledge, Yes, humans can only get here the rest of it,
we can't get to. Reason can only take us so far. That's
kant. This seems to be the case. This seems to be we don't
we can't seem to breach that wall, that veil through a consensus reality way.
There has to be other ways, whether that could be and experience some
kind of illumination. It could be a dream, yes, escaping the ego.
It could be through a psychedelic substance. It could be through meditation,
it could be through music. All of the ways these things can manifest through
imaginative folklore, you know, tales lithology kind of gets us off our center
and knocks us into the archetypal where we're in the ocean of things, where
we're not we're swimming in it. So I don't know if I answered your
question, but you did, because you know when you said about I'm sorry
to hear about your mother, and you know that was a terrible, terrible
time. But it's ironic. But it flips that you became the charge of
the prayers and all that. I was the same in a way in life
where I was a stubborn son, so I wouldn't believe in anything. I
had an open mind until I saw them. And I think this is what
kicked my butt into gear later on, not them, And I see them
again a number of times, and I think, when you see that,
the value of life as we know it. When I look about me,
it appears less interesting than what it was, because you've seen a magic.
It's beyond imagination, is beyond imagination, incredible. And this wasn't Pinprick's.
They were ninety feet above us, three of them. Something godly, almost
godly. It has always stated that. And when you see that, and
they shut the whole street off, they shut it off. No one was
there, no one. It's a convenience, isn't it. Convenience? It
adds insult to injury for testimony, doesn't it. But they shut the street
off, and it's a Saturday night at pub night. You know, they
shut there was not a soul, not a sound. After that, you
question the very essence of reality. And I think a beautiful thing is the
most beautiful thought is that this is not everything. Like you just said,
consciousness here and then there's a massive expansion to it which we can't reach the
same with this phenomena, but it is then nonetheless, we've had little droplets
a taste of what we have with us, and there is something with us.
Although like yourself, I suspect when you were telling me about you know,
this chat, you've based it on yourself, having your mic this is
you and the book, this is you, your journey And I get that
straight away from speaking to you and having read a portion of your book.
I get this is you. This is a reflection of yourself. And they
always say, writer, you could always find elements of him or her in
the book, and this is quite true. It is when you're just talking,
I thought, I recognize those pointers because that's what's that your character goes
through, you know. But yeah, so we're coming up to near the
end of the show because my goodness and our go so quick. But I
want to just say to the ladies and gentlemen, that Mike's book is absolutely
beautiful. It's available in April, isn't it April? It can be yes,
it can be pre ordered now and if folks are interested, you can
go to micfuridout dot com. You can send me a message if you want
to have an advanced review copies. So please let me know if you'd like
to read an advanced review copy. But it will be formally available through the
publisher in April April seventh, but it can be pre ordered now. But
if you want an advance review copy, please reach out to me and I'll
gladly work with you to arrange for that. Congratulations on for all we know
Mike. I have to say that it is beautiful, ladies and gentlemen.
As I'm reading it to the eye perspective, I like that. I really
like that, you know, through his eyes, his thoughts, his vision
of the world, the pains he goes through. This chapter, absolute things
he goes through is going to be an absolute cracker, and I think hopefully
it will be a best seller. It deserves to be. This book by
Mike. You know, it's funny. It must have been painful for you
to write that, because when you go back the ashes of the past.
When you go back, it's very hard, isn't it resurrect those moments in
time? And wish you could just go back. As we mentioned time travel.
I believe it's impossible, but there is something else. Stats and gentlemen,
I'm not denouncing the paradox and denouncing the method of reaching that goal.
There's certain things that cannot I believe be achieved. Nothing is impossible. Certain
things are I'm afraid they're not impossible. My grandfather said they're improbable, so
we call it improbable. But do you know, Mike, I could talk
to you for hours. You're an absolutely fascinating gentlemen. You're a brilliant author.
Brilliant author. You are a brilliant author. Your books are beautiful.
It's just absolutely beautifully composed. It's beauty you. But you can feel the
passion in your words. That's one thing I found some sometimes, the bluntness
of those words really because you think, oh my goodness, this is just
it's just saying as it is. I think it's beautiful. Thank you.
That's that's uh, that's that's music to my ears. And I do want
to say ron that you know, since I've first in this the magic of
this world that we live in. I saw you on in documentaries and then
explored your books, and what a pleasure and a treasure to be here and
talk to you as kind and nice a gentleman as as I saw you in
those films. So it's thank you so much for having me on and having
this chat. And please let's not let it end here. Let's uh,
let's continue the dialogue. Absolutely, my hope. Absolutely, Well, we
we'd like to get you back on. We don't just say it because we're
saying it. We would like to get you back on because Philip would like
to join you as well after the book's publication. Could have you back on,
because there's a lot more I'd like to ask you, Mike, There's
a lot more I'd like to talk to you about. You know, about
this wonderful kind of hypothesis you've embraced and I have two and the idea of
you being such a wonderful, open minded gentlemen. You strike me as being
a man who will consider many elements you may not agree with them, that
you will consider many elements of a paradox or or the phenomena as a whole,
but thank you so much. Indeed, ladies and gentlemen, you've been
listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, your host, Ronald kin seller