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Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro
Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO

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news authority presenting evidence and the latest
news regarding the UFO phenomena. Here's your

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host, Alejandro Roja. Hello,
all my little friends. I am Alejandro

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Roa. Thank you mister Dan for
that wonderful introduction. And I saw him

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now that I think about it,
but only for a couple seconds at the

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UFO Congress last week, which some
of you missed, but many of you

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were there and it was wonderful to
meet many of our radio listeners. So

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it was a very fun event.
It was busy, busy. I got

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a little under the weather. I
think it was. I don't know if

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it's bad cold or bad allergies,
but it kind of dampered my ability to

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part in the evenings. But that's
okay because everything else came across pretty smooth

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and it was a lot of fun. And I know that Jason and I

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will be talking about it a bit, and you know what, because I'm

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not sure exactly what Jason wants to
talk about, so we'll just talk about

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everything on all wait. But I
do want to tell you about our guest

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tonight. This is a great show
and we're happy to be back. I

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know some of you missed us,
and we're saying we missed you, man,

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so thank you. I missed you
too, and we are so happy

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to be back. And I've got
someone special on the show today, Jordan

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Peace. And this is great because
many of you might not have heard of

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him because he's kind of a back, behind the scenes kind of guy.

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He helped with the Disclosure Project,
He's been helping with the Congress for years.

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He's got a library in the Rogue
Valley in Oregon outside in Ashland,

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Oregon. Actually really cool guy,
and he's been kind of shy. I

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tried to talk them into coming on
the radio show for years, I think

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even when I started it. You
know, it's already been like three years,

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a little over three years or something
like that. But he's always been

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a little too shy to do it. So I'm really excited that he did.

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And like a lot of people,
they'll say, well, I don't

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know if I have a whole hour
of stuff to talk about, And sure

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enough, you know, when we
get to the end of the hour,

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we're at risking going, man,
we could have gone another hour, because

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everybody has a lot to say,
especially if you're passionate about the field,

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you know you've got a lot to
share and a lot of opinions, or

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someone like Jordan has a lot of
history to share. So it's a lot

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of fun. We're gonna be talking
to Jordan later on in the show,

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but without further ado, why don't
we just move on and bring on a

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good old Jason McClellan, our news
correspondent, so we can talk more about

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the Congress and do some reminiscing and
tell you how you can go see some

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of the highlights and some of the
cool stuff that went on. Hello,

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Jason, hither Alejandro. This is
your Open Minds News Brief everyone for Monday,

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March fifth, twenty twelve. And
it's so good to be back after

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two weeks away doing the Congress.
Glad to be back. And yeah,

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let's get right into it and talk
about the twenty first Annual International UFO Congress

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that just took place. We wrapped
that up. It was a fantastic event,

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and I, like you, was
blown away by the first day.

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Like after the first day, after
Wednesday, I thought, wow, it's

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it's already hit the highlight. This
was the peak Wednesday was just an amazing

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day. The rest was just mediocrat
best, just kidding, it was all

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great, but that was a great
day. Wednesday was a great way to

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start it. It was really really
good. And you know, one of

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the highlights of the event for people
who haven't been to the conference. On

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Saturday, we have a large banquet, sort of a big festival. It's

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a wrap up to our film festival, the EB Film Festival, and we

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give awards. It's like our Academy
Awards, our Emmys. But we also

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introduced something last year additional researcher awards, and I think that that that's one

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of my favorite parts of the conference
is these these researcher awards we give out

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and we have a Researcher of the
Year award, and this year our Researcher

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of the Year was Lee Spiegel from
the Huffington Post, who's been on the

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show a couple of times. Well
deserved, a good buddy of ours,

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and very very excited to see Lee
get that. It's well deserved and it

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was fun to get to spend a
lot of time with Lee at the event.

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And then the Lifetime Achievement Award was
given to Colin Andrews for his decades

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of working there, and I always
forget he's a guy who coined the word

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cross circle. Yeah, my goodness. Pretty big. And he says,

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I'm pretty sure he said he's talked
to the Queen. Why no, he

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has said he's talked to the Queen
about crop circles her Majesty herself. Wow,

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pretty big stuff. He deserved it, and so did Lee because I

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don't think a lot of people get
shocked when they hear just how influential and

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how much Lee had to do with
the UN presentations that happened in seventy which

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was really important. I mean,
it's the only time that this stuff has

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gotten in front of the United Nations
and all of the delegates and an important

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moment in time that people can read
about in our magazine. So it was

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well deserved. Also, Lee,
who we've had on the show a couple

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of times now, So I think
if you have listened to those shows,

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or if you go back and listen
to him, you'll understand why he so

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deserved the award for the year.
And recently he published a piece on the

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Huffington Post sort of his recap of
the Congress. So that's an interesting read

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and speaking of Lees Spiegel from the
Huffington Post, one of my personal favorite

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presentations at the conference was the media
panel we had. Yeah, that was

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that was maybe my favorite highlight my
you know, getting to talk with those

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guys and have that fun. Certainly
that that included they were all they've all

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been guests on this show. Bryce
Sable, Ben Hanson, and Lese Biegel.

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Yeah, that was great. And
getting back to the first day,

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I did want to mention one of
the reasons why it was so great.

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I mean, we had Jack Sukowski
his cattle mutilation stuff, which I've seen

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but others may have not, and
if you are into cattle mutilations, you're

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definitely going to want to watch that
DVD. We had Clifford Cliff who gets

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better and better all the time.
He's witty and he's fun. But he

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went over some great cases because he's
been combing the move On file, so

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these incredible cases were move On right. He recently stepped down as the international

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director, but he is sort of
heading up the move On archives and he

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presented some stuff that hasn't been presented
before. So that first day was also

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lee and did we wrap it up
with Vaughan was that the first day it

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all it becomes a blur, But
I remember, you know, that first

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day, that first start, it
was like, wow, these are great

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presentations. So we were off to
a great start. Yeah, and again

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the media panel was great and I
enjoyed that personally, and I think a

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lot of attendees did too. That's
something new we did this year, was

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the panels. Yeah, and people
like that, you know, and it

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gave them a longer opportunity, a
better opportunity to come up and ask questions

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because a large time period with the
panels was devoted to questions from the audience.

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Yeah, Like an hour in each
panel I think was devoted to Q

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and A from the audience. And
unfortunately, at every single one, we

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had to turn people away because there
are so many people with so many questions.

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That's right. Luckily they could go
to the vendor room or out into

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the hallway to ask questions of the
panelists. But people always have some great

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questions and come up with stuff you
wouldn't have thought of. So that was

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a lot of fun. And yeah, like you said, I think that's

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people loved it. Yeah, I
agree. And for those of you who

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either attended this year or or didn't
plan to next year, or if you

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planned a turn next year, stay
tuned to the show. Listen in carefully

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because we will announce and I have
it on good authority that registration will probably

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open earlier this year than it did
lot or next year than it did this

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year. And if this year is
in the indicator as was last year,

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the hotel sells out pretty quickly,
and you want to be in that main

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hotel, you know. I had
several people come up and say, I

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listened to the radio show, and
I'm glad that I listened to you and

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got my tickets early, because the
hotels sold out like within a month.

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I heard that too, you know. And I think a lot of a

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lot of the people where you are
are listeners to this show, who because

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we gave lots and lots of those
warnings to people, get your hotel now,

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and a lot of the listeners did, and I think they appreciated that.

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And it's a beautiful hotel. It's
a great hotel, and that's where

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all the action is and it built
out fast, as does every other hotel

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in the area. So it's a
pretty big time event. So yeah,

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we'll definitely let you know as soon
as the hotel opens up, as soon

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as registration opens up, so you
can jump on that as soon as possible.

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But I had fun like I did
last year. There's never enough time

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to and really, to me,
the greatest benefit to conferences is not discovering

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some breaking information or something that's never
been heard before. I mean, there's

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some of that and that's great,
but the main benefit to these events is

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the social aspect, being able to
interact with the researchers and to socialize with

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a lot of the people there.
It's just a great social event to me.

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Though. The one piece of new
information that was really new and great

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was the General Bermudez who brought that
they have analyzed and it was some incredible

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video. Yep, this is the
General Ricardo Bermudas from Chile who heads up

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their official UFO investigation unit and their
government. Very exciting stuff. He presented

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video and audio evidence from their case
and then did did you guys put up

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a video today? I think we
put up a video today and Antonio Juneus

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wrote an article about the cases that
the General presented and we will be putting

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up a more in depth video with
more of the clips from the General's presentation

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and all the presentations from the Congress
can be purchased from our website. We

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do sell all of those, but
we will be putting up more on YouTube

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from the General's presentation. In a
more video news piece from Antonio. One

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thing I wanted to ask you about. Just the other day, I put

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up on UFO Daily News some videos
of some of the news coverage of the

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Congress, especially some of the interviews
I got to do just I was aware

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of those more and so the coverage, though, was really good. I

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think you probably were able to look
at more of the Congress coverage than I

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was able to look at, but
overall it was very positive. It seemed,

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you know, just like all the
other UFO news, not all,

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but much of the UFO news coverage
we're seeing lately, it's becoming covered more

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and more journalistically, not covered as
a joke. There's less of the rolling

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the eyes and throwing in a joke
here and there. There's certainly some of

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that still, but the strong majority
of the media coverage of the event this

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year was basically just straight up,
here's the event, and here's what it

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is. And by the way,
if you want to come out and see

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it, here's when you can do
it, and how much it costs.

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I mean, it was very straightforward
news reporting without the little jokes here and

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there. I thought it was even
better than last year. But you know,

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I was pleasantly surprised. Yeah,
when I went to the studio for

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CBS in the morning after we were
done shooting, you know, the other

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anchors were asking me questions. They
were asking like when do you think the

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government's finally going to tell us?
Is what they're asking, And you know,

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I gave them whatever replies I had, and they're like, you know,

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do you I think they will ever
tell us? So these questions they

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were asking were kind of assuming that
the government did know more. You know,

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they weren't making fun of it or
anything. So it was really cool.

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That's exciting. And the media people
we talked to who came out to

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the event were excited to be there
and they asked their own questions and yeah,

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they were very excited, right,
So I thought they did a good

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job. Yeah, it was very
cool. That's a great coverage. Yep,

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thanks media, you rock well.
Although we did talk about in that

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panel that you refer to why the
media doesn't usually often get it right and

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why they do ridicule a lot,
and there were some very interesting answers,

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and I think what was great is
that we had coverage from a television show,

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we had someone from online media kind
of print ish, but online media

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national, and then we had someone
from Hollywood, so we had a well

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rounded group to talk about, you
know, why the way happen and if

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there is you know, big brother
back there suppressing stuff from what they've seen

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and what they've been able to do. So it was great to get more

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insight into really the inner workings and
the behind the scenes of the media and

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UFOs. I agree. And of
all the DVDs we have of these presentations

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that we're given, that's the one
that I'm going to go back and watch

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first is the media panel, Yeah, because I found that one the most

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fascinating, and they the panelist did
such a great job too. And of

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course I wanted to mention and you
know, just to say thanks to some

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of the guys who help us,
who are just so awesome out there.

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Of course there's Angelareo and and Heather
Fetter from the company who help us out,

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and there's Maureen, but some of
the guys that help us back backstage

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with like Danny and Chean and Chris
and Carlow and Jordan who were having on

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the show later Jordan will be on. The guys are awesome. Yeah,

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they are really the magic workers who
make the whole thing happen. And we

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do the conference with very minimal staff
and these guys just go, go,

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go all day and they do it. They're volunteers. This is something they

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do because they love it, and
they do a terrific job. And we're,

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like I said, with the DVDs, we're actually able to produce these

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DVDs on the spot, turn them
around in you know, two to three

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hours, and have them available for
people at the conference. And I mentioned

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Colin and John, and there's someone
else I'm missing, and then there's our

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two special guest camera people. Of
course. Yes, yes, we must

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thank Dale and Pam for coming out
from California to we're cameras for us.

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And yeah, we had people from
a couple of people from Oregon and one

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from where's Carlo from Carlos from California. No he's not Carlos Minnesota, not

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Minnesota, really Midwest. Yeah,
Oh, I just said, you go

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back to the cold weather. Poor
guy, I thought he was out of

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la or something. No, oh
wow, No. But we have a

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great team, and you know they
they work day in and day out and

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make the thing happen, and it
wouldn't work without them. So we really

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appreciate all their help. Yep,
those guys are awesome. Yep. Well,

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another Congress down in the books and
we'll do it again. But let's

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talk some other news. A lejandro
about the Congress all day long. Well.

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Scientists have evidence suggesting the president the
presence of water below the surface of

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several planets and moons, and the
presence of water is the primary component scientists

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look for when searching for extraterrestrial life. Saturn's moon and Silatus is one of

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these alien worlds where water has been
detected, and it's also the target of

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researchers who want to search for signs
of extraterrestrial life in its water. Scientists

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led by the German Aerospace Center are
developing a probe to melt and drill beneath

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the icy crust of Ensulatus to search
for alien life in the water that is

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thought to be below the moon's surface. Researchers have named the probe ice mole,

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and, as space dot Com explains, quote, after ice mool reaches

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its target, a cryovolcanic crevice filled
with water, it is hoped its aim

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is to sample the liquid, examining
it for evidence of microbes. This exploration

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project, called Ensulatus Explorer or NX, launched on February twenty second, but

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testing of the ice mol is already
underway here on Earth. It has successfully

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been used to drill into glaciers in
Switzerland, and researchers plan to conduct additional

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testing during the next couple of years
in Alaska and Antarctica. According to Oliver

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Funk, project manager for the ensulatust
Explorer at the German Aerospace Center, quote

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NX deals with one of the most
exciting tasks of space exploration, the search

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for extraterrestrial life. Fulk also stated
that if NX goes well, an ICEMOL

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mission to explore the polar ice caps
on Mars will be proposed. You know,

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I just got done with the story
for the magazine on this stuff,

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but the news is coming out like
crazy. I mean it's already been coming

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out like crazy. We've been talking
about it every show I follow this every

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day and I can't keep up with
it. Yeah, there's this one.

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There's this other planet that has water
but the pressure is too high and it's

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weird water and weird forms that they
just proved there are water planets out there.

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So the person who discovered it says, you know, there's probably going

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to be more planets like that out
there that are in areas where the water

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is in a typical liquid form.
Then there was one, yeah, that

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one we talked about on the last
show where it was like twenty light years

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away which is relatively close, that
has water and is in the Goldilocks zone,

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and one of Saturn's moods today was
found to have an oxygen atmosphere.

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Right, the news just keeps popping. Yep, Well, we do our

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best. Yeah. In other news, UFO sidings routinely flood newsrooms and police

247
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stations with phone calls, and while
some police stations find UFO reports to be

248
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an unwanted nuisance, a law enforcement
agency in Arizona welcomes reports of UFOs and

249
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other paranormal phenomena. KPHO, the
CBS affiliate in Phoenix, reported last week

250
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that officials on the Navajo Reservation investigate
these strange cases and have been doing so

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for ten years. This agency,
known as the Navajo Nation Rangers, is

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a federal law enforcement resource, according
to Lieutenant John Dover, and the management

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of national parks, fish and wildlife
services, and archaeological sites are a few

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of the agency's responsibilities. Dover's investigations
have revealed a quote wealth of information,

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and KPHO reports that the Rangers recently
shared with them photos and documents from dozens

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of paranormal investigations. Dover told KPHO, quote, maybe we don't believe it,

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maybe we don't hold every belief that
you do, but we're going to

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investigate it rather meticulously and professionally,
will report it and let the chips fall

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where they will. In this willingness
to take reports of paranoral activity and the

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promise to be thorough and discreet during
the investigation process that makes witnesses feel comfortable

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dealing with these officers and Dover will
reportedly be a special guest at the Harkinsha

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fourteenth Theater in Scottsdale, Arizona,
on March eleventh, for the screening of

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the documentary The Phoenix Lights. That
event marks the fifteenth anniversary of the famous

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mass UFO sighting that took place in
Arizona in nineteen ninety seven, and we

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met Dover last year at the UFO
Congress. I don't know if he was

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there this year. Yeah, last
year, I think so. I think

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I saw him. But we let
them audit some of the speakers to do

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training because they were just getting started
in this stuff. And they said that

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they would like to come to the
conference and watch them speakers, but they

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weren't sure if they could afford it, and so we let them watch them

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speakers. So yeah, and that's
one thing that I asked them to be

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on the show, and I've kind
of dropped the ball, honestly because they

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said they were a little shy about
it. But I didn't pursue it.

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But I really need to because I
will be there at the screening of The

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Phoenix Lights this weekend on the eleventh
at at one pm at the Shay Harkins

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Theater, So if you live in
the Phoenix area, come check it out

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where doctor link Tai will show her
documentary on the Phoenix Light. She does

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00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:56.039
this every year, but this is
a fifteenth year anniversary. In fact,

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we'll probably have her on the show
next week. I think we'll be able

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to work out, so yeah,
and we'll meet those guys, so I'll

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talk to him again. But really
nice guys. And I just didn't know

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the depth this article is incredible,
The depth of research and investigation they've done,

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I mean everything, and they're really
getting out there and taking this seriously.

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It's very cool. These are Yeah, these are full blown investigations.

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They're meticulous and they're taking it seriously. Yeah, really cool. So it's

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exciting to see. And you're right, I mean, they seem to be

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more more out in the open with
it now, so I think they'll be

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more willing to talk about it.
Well. On December twenty eleven, astrobiologist

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00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:41.000
Paul Davies and research technician Robert Wagner
published a scientific paper calling for the public

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00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:45.240
self to search portrases of extraterrestrial life
on the Moon. Now, the SETI

291
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.519
Institute the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence is
calling on the public for help as well.

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The SETI Institute announced the launch of
SETI Live at the TED conference in

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00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.960
Los Angeles. Now, this is
pretty big. The TED, which stands

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for Technology, Entertainment and Design,
is a conference that's gotten quite large in

295
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:07.839
the past few years, and so
they were there and according to space dot

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00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:11.640
Com, this new website SETI Live. Anyone can go to the website and

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00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.680
register and they can assist in the
search for extraterrestrial radio signals by analyzing data

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received by Setti's Allen telescope. Ran
California. Doctor Gillian Tarter, director of

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00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:25.440
the Seti Institute, Center for SETI
Research and winner of the Ted Prize in

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00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:29.000
two thousand and nine, explain quote, I'm hoping that an army of volunteers

301
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can help us deal with these crowded
frequency bands that confuse our machines. By

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doing this in real time, we
will have an opportunity to follow up immediately

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on what our volunteers discover. The
BBC points out that crowdsourcing data quote has

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00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.720
proved to be very useful a useful
tool for scientists in a range of disciplines,

305
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.880
so it makes sense to utilize crowdthurcing
and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence as

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00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.720
well. And if you'd like to
join in on the search, you can

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00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:57.160
go to their website and register at
SETILive dot org. It's kind of interesting

308
00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:03.400
that they're counting on humans to pick
up on things that machines can't. I

309
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.920
always think of computers being able to
pick up on so much more than we

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00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.960
can. But yeah, it maybe
it's more of a marketing thing. I'm

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not sure, but it could be. And you know what I mean,

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00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.480
the media loves SETI. Yeah,
as we've seen in the past couple of

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years, anytime there's anything from SETI, every media organization picks up on it.

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You know, they had their budget
problems this year and now with this,

315
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:32.039
so we'll see. But it's interesting
to get the public involved. Hopefully

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they're competent people doing it. And
I assume there's some sort of instructions on

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00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.839
what you're supposed to do, but
I have to check it out. But

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people like it. I mean,
it sounds exciting to me and I want

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00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.799
to search for e T. But
we do. Yeah, I do.

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I don't know what the hell you're
doing. I'm lazy. But astronomers are

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00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:55.960
talking about a new approach for detecting
biosignatures beyond our Solar system. When a

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00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:00.200
sun's light reflects off a planet and
onto one of that planet's moons, lnight

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00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.720
tests are able to determine details about
that planet's surface as universe today, explained

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00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:08.599
researchers from the European Southern Observatory quote
use Earth as a benchmark for the future

325
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:14.279
study or the future search for life
on planets beyond our Solar system. The

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00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:18.599
astronomers say they can analyze the faint
planet shine, look to the light to

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look for indicators such as certain combinations
of gases in the atmosphere, as they

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00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:29.480
found looking at Earth shine to find
tailtale signs of organic life. And the

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00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:33.200
team's research was recently published in the
journal Nature. But this is kind of

330
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:38.000
interesting. So they looked at our
moon to test this out, and using

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the light that is reflected from the
Earth onto the Moon, they could tell

332
00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:47.599
that we have a cloudy atmosphere and
they could tell other things too. It's

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00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:48.680
not going to be very detailed,
and I think there's going to be a

334
00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.880
lot of guessing and filling in blanks, but it's another method that they're using

335
00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:59.039
on these places that they can't really
get direct looks at the planet, they

336
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can look at the reflection. Wellhundra, I've got one more story I want

337
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.559
to get in here, and it's
about another fireball UFO, firewall UFO,

338
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:11.640
so many fireball UFOs yeah, so
thousands of witnesses saw a strange, slow

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00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:15.319
moving bright light in the night sky
above northern Britain on Saturday, March third.

340
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:21.519
The Telegraph reported that a spokesman from
the Strathclyde Police said they had been

341
00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:25.720
inundated with calls about a bright object
in the sky west of Scotland. Also,

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00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:29.839
a spokeswoman from the Durham Police said
they received several calls from concerned people

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00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:33.039
who had seen a quote bright light
or a fire in the sky, and

344
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:38.119
some witnesses even reported their belief that
this fire in the sky incident involved an

345
00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:44.359
aircraft, but Air Traffic Control confirmed
that no aircraft incidents were reported and that

346
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:48.680
nothing registered on radar. Experts believed
that mysterious fireball was a meteor entering the

347
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.839
atmosphere. And there was even a
woman today who came forward claiming to have

348
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.880
recovered the media that came down.
Oh really cool. Those are worth a

349
00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:00.400
lot of money. Yeah, she
was pretty excited. It looked on the

350
00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:03.039
internet it looks like what it is
supposed to be, but who knows,

351
00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:07.319
I mean. And again they said, oh, this is like the brightest

352
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:11.759
one we've seen in thirty years or
something. But again we're having all these

353
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:15.079
fireballs, gigantic fireballs, huge continus, that's what they say. They are

354
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:19.000
meteors. But these things are supposed
to be rare, and they're happening like

355
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.519
almost weekly. Now. Yeah,
I remember when it was so exciting when

356
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:26.119
they had happened and it was really
rare. Then I saw the one out

357
00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:30.799
in the desert and they're happening all
over the place, everybody's seeing it.

358
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:33.440
Well, I do want to say
this this one. There's video of it,

359
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:36.359
and it doesn't look like the one
you saw or like some of these

360
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:38.680
others that break up and that's green
in the different colors. This was just

361
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:44.720
a fireball, yeah, very whitish, light, big and yeah, not

362
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:48.759
breaking up, just this ball of
yep, very interesting, cool stuff.

363
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.720
Yeah, the fireballs are fascinating.
Ye. Well all hunter, that is

364
00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:53.559
it for the news you remember,
guys. You can check out all these

365
00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:57.000
stories and so many more it Openies
Do TV your source for UFO related news.

366
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:00.960
I'm Jason McClellan, your Open Eyed
News course London, and you've been

367
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:04.720
briefed back to you Sirollehandro. Thank
you, Jason. Jason can talk pretty

368
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:07.200
fast. Sometimes I can't talk it
to Bessie. He does that he can

369
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:12.680
go really best. But other news
out there, it's kind of funny.

370
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:18.000
Lee Spiegel actually just posted one as
we're talking on Chuopacabras, so you can

371
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:22.440
go check that out. Otherwise,
like I had mentioned, we have the

372
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:29.839
videos up Herofo Daily News and then
at Openminds dot tv, including the bermudez

373
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:32.559
ones that we were talking about,
because, like we said, that was

374
00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:37.039
a really incredible case and they had, you know, a lot of investigation

375
00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:42.680
done on this kind of gum drop
silver looking UFO that was zipping around at

376
00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:48.799
amazing speeds while they were having an
air show out there in Chili. So

377
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.039
you've got to check that out.
Now, I've got a lot to talk

378
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.000
about with Jordan Peace, even though
he doesn't think so. I think we've

379
00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:02.440
got more than enough to go through, so I think we better go ahead

380
00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:07.079
and get Jordan on the line.
I have on the phone with me one

381
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:14.119
of my good friends and someone really
i've gotten to know through the UFO Congress

382
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.599
working on it for many years or
going there, and that is Jordan Peace.

383
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.839
Hello Jordan, Hey, Ellie Hondra, thanks for inviting me for this

384
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:26.759
interview with you. I'm really excited
about it. Yeah, I'm really excited

385
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:30.279
to have you on because, as
far as I'm concerned, you're one of

386
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:37.359
those kind of behind the scenes guy
that helps geil the whole community and keep

387
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:41.960
things moving forward. And so I'm
really excited to talk to you about the

388
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.720
different projects you have going on and
your experience, you know, over the

389
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:52.039
many years of working on this stuff. Yeah, it's been quite an adventure

390
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:56.200
for me. As you know,
I've met you at the MOFON conference in

391
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:57.680
Denver, Colorado there I think it
was two thousand and one. Do you

392
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:03.000
recall, you know, I can't
remember at first when we met. I

393
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:06.319
just remember it was a long time
ago, but that makes sense now that

394
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:07.720
I think about it. Yeah,
yeah, I think so. We were

395
00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:11.160
just doing our load out there after
the event, and I remember just spending

396
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:15.160
quite a bit of time with you
right at the loading doc right sharing my

397
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:19.680
experiences with the Disclosure Project and the
UFO Congress. Yeah, I do remember

398
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.039
that our first conversation right that one
there, because I is helping you guys

399
00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:27.720
load and unload because you were helping
out with the AV and I remember our

400
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:33.319
first conversation ended with a hug because
I remember I love this guy. That

401
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:36.680
was my feeling about you as well
too, So I'm glad we're here,

402
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:41.039
what eleven years later, sharing our
friendship on the air here, right,

403
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:48.000
that's great. So how long have
you been helping out with the UFO Congress.

404
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:51.759
Well, let's see, I have
attended many conferences, as I'm sure

405
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:55.720
you know listen to attendee and on
the production staff, and so I'm not

406
00:28:55.759 --> 00:29:02.000
really sure for your listeners. The
UFO Congress was founded by Bob and Terry

407
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:06.440
Brown, and I think their first
conference was actually in Las Vegas, Nevada.

408
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:10.119
Not recalling the year. This year
was the twenty first annual, so

409
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:14.559
whatever the math is on that.
Then they moved it to Laughlin, Nevada,

410
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.680
I think the next year, and
shortly after that is when I began

411
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:21.279
attending, So that would have been
you know, mid nineties somehow or sometime.

412
00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:26.640
And then well, these are long
stories, so feel free to cut

413
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:30.640
me short, but I don't want
to go ahead. Then it was actually

414
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.039
during Steve Breer's Disclosure Project press conference
May ninth, two thousand and one,

415
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.599
that that was a period that really
changed my life in many ways. And

416
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:41.920
we can get into that in more
detail, but it was during that conference,

417
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:44.079
and in fact, it was the
night of the May ninth press conference.

418
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:45.519
I took Bob and Terry Brown out
to dinner, who were also there

419
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.799
in attendance, and that's when they
invited me to be on their production staff.

420
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.680
So then that following year and every
year since except one year two thousand

421
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.960
and five, I wasn't able to
go. I've had the privilege of being

422
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.200
on that production staff and help them
make it all happen there. Okay,

423
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.599
I guess let's go way back,
even further into your path too, when

424
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:11.039
you first started getting active in the
UFO community, and what was the impetus

425
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:19.599
for getting you there? Sure,
well, I do want to share with

426
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:23.359
your listeners a lot about that experience
for me, and because I'm sure that

427
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:30.599
other people who are studying these subjects
have had a similar path into it.

428
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:36.799
So you know, I came from
a fairly mainstream background. I had interest

429
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:41.359
in paranormal subjects in the UFO phenomena, but mostly this is a casual hobby,

430
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.200
I guess you'd say. Then,
in about nineteen eighty eight, I

431
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:49.640
had a colleague I worked as a
sound engineer in the San Francisco Bay area.

432
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:56.640
This man's name is Stephen Degrassia,
and she had been a colleague in

433
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:00.440
an acquaintance for quite some time,
and I kind of love track of him.

434
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:03.799
Then kind of out of nowhere,
he resurfaced in my life and was

435
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:10.319
a completely different person. And he
had attributed his change of life focus to

436
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:15.480
a UFO siding he had in Sebasketball, California. And because I'd known this

437
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:21.720
man and felt he was sane,
I was very very intrigued, and he

438
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:25.480
was very happy to go on and
on and on and on and on about

439
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:29.720
his experience and how he felt,
you know, the world was being affected

440
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.839
by contact with extraterrestrial intelligence and et
cetera, et cetera, And so that's

441
00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:37.960
what really really kindled my interest in
the phenomenon. Then I began doing reading

442
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.400
on my own. And you know
a lot of people will have the experience

443
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:44.480
for a book will just kind of
appear in their life, or you know,

444
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:48.000
fall off the bookshelf at the bookstore. That was certainly true for me

445
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:49.559
back in those days. And so
I just became quite obsessed, frankly,

446
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:53.640
with the subject and would just read
anything I could get my hands on,

447
00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:59.640
and started attending the International u HO
Congress there in Laughlin. And finally,

448
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.119
and here's part I want to focus
on specifically, finally found a community of

449
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:07.240
people where it was safe to discuss
these subjects. And when I when I

450
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.000
characterize my feelings about being involved in
the production of these various conferences, it's

451
00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:15.079
it's that great opportunity to help support, uh, you know, first timers

452
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:19.640
and newcomers to these subjects and understanding
and remembering what it was like for me,

453
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.319
you know, feeling that sense of
being ostracized and ridiculed by you know,

454
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:29.599
family and friends around these subjects.
And so you know, that's that's

455
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:34.599
where I feel my most sense of
satisfaction comes. It's the opportunity to help

456
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.559
support and you know, pave the
way and make it a safe experience for

457
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.559
people that are you know, just
putting their toe in the water of these

458
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:46.119
these subjects that we speak, right, That is a fun part of these

459
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:52.519
conferences because sometimes it feels like it's
just seeing people over and over again,

460
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.759
but really it's not. You know, even this year at the banquet,

461
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:59.720
I was sitting next to a couple
who it was the first time at a

462
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:05.839
cons like that. You know,
they had an interest and the wife she

463
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:10.799
had looked online for to find a
community of people to talk to because just

464
00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:14.799
like you said, you know,
she felt like her friends didn't really want

465
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:17.799
to talk about any of this,
so she was so excited to be at

466
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:24.799
the conference. And it's I think
it's important and it's always very fulfilling to

467
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:30.440
provide that sort of space with people
like this very much, And that's that's

468
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.359
my feelings about it too. And
before we go too far on the conversation,

469
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:36.839
and Alejandro, I certainly want to
commend you and John Rao and the

470
00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:42.920
Open mind staff there for taking passing
the baton receiving the baton as the conference

471
00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:46.880
changed hands there last year moved to
Fountain Hills, Arizona. It's just been

472
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:52.079
a tremendously rewarding experience, like I
keep saying, and I'm just really really

473
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:54.400
glad to see the conference in such
good hands and run at such a such

474
00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:59.000
a high level of organization and professionalism. So hats off to you guys.

475
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:01.000
It's just been just wonderful transition to
see. And I know I speak for

476
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:06.519
other people as well who have the
same feelings in regard for Open Minds and

477
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:09.440
the staff there. Well, thank
you very much because it was a tall

478
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:14.079
order, you know. I before
Terry passed away, you know, I

479
00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:16.679
got to know her, and she
was a wonderful person and I so loved

480
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:22.559
her, and I was so impressed
by her business skills and being able to

481
00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:29.760
put this professional conference together. And
then I was, you know, equally

482
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:35.199
impressed with her daughters, especially Nicky
when you know she they were kind of

483
00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:39.639
handed the reins a little bit begrudgingly
to write to keep the thing going,

484
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:44.320
and they did such an amazing job. One of the reasons I was so

485
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:46.199
amazed is because, as you know, I was involved with the moufon conferences,

486
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:52.199
but most conferences in this field don't
make money and they don't survive because

487
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:55.000
of that. But these guys are
so well organized they've been able to keep

488
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:59.920
it going. So it was a
big challenge. And so you know,

489
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.159
thank you because it was a lot
of work. And I hope, you

490
00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:07.119
know, we we've added some more
energy to keep it going for for years

491
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:09.880
and years to come. Oh yes, again, it's just been great to

492
00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:15.000
see the level of professionalism increase.
And like you say, Nicki Brown Nicki

493
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.599
Irvine is her married name, has
just done tremendous work carrying on the work

494
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:24.280
of her mother Terry and father Bob
Brown, and many people I'm sure listening

495
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:29.280
are aware of the Brown family and
the tremendous contributions that they've made to the

496
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:34.079
field of UFO research and study.
Yeah. Yeah, we definitely have mentioned

497
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:38.440
them a lot, so good thank
you for bringing that up, because it

498
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:42.519
was. It's a great tradition and
it's it's fun to be a part of

499
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:46.480
that tradition, and hopefully it's good
to see you every year there. It

500
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.800
really is like, like you've already
acknowledged, it really is like a family

501
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:52.960
reunion of sorts to come together with
people. You typically only see her once

502
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:55.719
a year at those conferences, and
there's just never enough time, especially when

503
00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:59.679
you know, you and I are
working backstage on the production. You know,

504
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:01.480
there's so many people out in the
audience that I want to catch up

505
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:05.880
with and visit with, and I
this last conference, I had the opportunity

506
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:07.159
a little bit to do that,
but it never feels like enough. Those

507
00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:12.199
few days just fly by, and
you know, it's great to see the

508
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:14.840
people, but it's unfortunate we don't
get to catch up throughout the year as

509
00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:16.639
much as we do at the conference. Yeah, It's funny because even though

510
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:21.480
we're backstage spending a lot of time
together, I'm always thinking, man,

511
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.159
I hope I can grab Jordan and
have a conversation, because really, you

512
00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:29.960
know, you're busy back there duplicating
DVDs. I'm usually pacing behind the stage,

513
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:36.400
waiting for making sure the av is
working for everyone, and scrambling to

514
00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:39.440
fix anything if it's broken. So
it's just, yeah, so tense that

515
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:44.599
we're not behind stage having conversations.
We're so focused on the show. Yeah,

516
00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:45.519
not at all. There's just not
enough time. Like I said,

517
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:49.960
I really also want to take this
opportunity to encourage listeners that haven't been a

518
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:53.440
conference like this. Fay are at
all inclined. I really want to encourage

519
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:57.039
them to make the effort and do
it. Your website, I'm sure that

520
00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:59.599
we'll mention again, but I'll here, I'll say it now. Openminds dot

521
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:04.840
tv is how you learn more about
the twenty thirteen conference. I don't think

522
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:07.880
there's any speakers up there yet,
but has the details about the dates and

523
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:10.519
the beautiful accommodations. Let me comment
on that as well too. Laughlin was

524
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.119
a nice hotel and the great facilities
there too. But boy, sure has

525
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:19.119
taken a step up to be hosted
that your new venue there, Fort mcdewell,

526
00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:22.559
just outside of Mountain Hills, Arizona. It is mine because it's a

527
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:28.239
beautiful place and it's where these golfers
go. And it feels like, yeah,

528
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:34.559
taking even more so bringing the subject
out of the closet and putting it,

529
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:37.880
being bold and putting it, you
know, a good foot forward in

530
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:42.320
that this is we don't have to
be shy about this subject. It's a

531
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:46.239
real subject, It's an important subject, and it deserves as metrospect as any

532
00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:51.639
other. Absolutely, if not more, I agree, And that's what I

533
00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:54.599
think I did for many of the
people that attend those conferences, realizing the

534
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:59.360
implications, of course, of the
UFO phenomenon, all the related subjects that

535
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:04.440
seem dovetail tangentially. There's just so
so much there, and I'm just really

536
00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:07.760
glad to see finally in the media
this program that I'm sure a lot of

537
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:10.760
listeners are aware of, Ancient Aliens
has really, I think taken it to

538
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:16.519
the next threshold of acceptability in our
society, that there really is a reality

539
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:22.639
to these phenomena, and it certainly
warrants a lot more attention and resources devoted

540
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:24.519
to it, to the study and
understand all the different beasts of it.

541
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:30.480
Now, one of the things you
had meant to touched upon and I wanted

542
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:34.679
to talk more about, is you
know, back in your earlier history and

543
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.679
this stuff is the Disclosure Project.
Really, it was a disclosure project that

544
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:45.159
got me, you know, to
really throw myself into the ring and to

545
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:47.159
devote so much of my life.
It was. I was interested in the

546
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:51.480
subject, but when I saw,
you know, all of these credible people

547
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:55.159
brought to the forefront, brought to
the Washington Press Club in May of two

548
00:38:55.199 --> 00:39:00.320
thousand and one, I thought,
wow, you know, people need to

549
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:04.079
know about this. I was a
journalism student, and so I really kind

550
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:07.639
of took that on as my beat
and ran with it. And that was

551
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.360
one of the exciting things when I
first talked to you, because you were

552
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:15.559
working some of the behind the scenes
on the Disclosure Project. How did you

553
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:19.840
get involved with that? That must
have been exciting. Oh, exciting just

554
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:22.880
doesn't even begin to encapsulate. That
year and a half I spent touring around

555
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:28.079
with the Disclosure Project, Steve Greer
and the Witnesses. Boy, it's a

556
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:30.880
long, long stories too. Well, let's see, how did I get

557
00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:35.119
involved, I think was your question. Well, let's see, I'd known

558
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:38.199
Steve Greer, I'm sure i'd seen
him lecture at the last one conference and

559
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:44.360
probably received an email or something about
this May ninth, two thousand and one

560
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:45.559
press conference, and thought, wow, that's going to be a significant event

561
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:49.599
in history, and she wouldn't it
be fun to attend that live? And

562
00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:52.079
so I made arrangement stud do that, and brought two of my friends back

563
00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:58.880
with me and just expecting to you
know, be in the room and maybe

564
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:00.840
meet some of the witnesses, fly
back home, and that's all I was

565
00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:07.519
really expecting out of the experience.
But little or unbeknownst to me at the

566
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:12.559
time, fate had a different path
in store for me, thankfully, And

567
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:19.000
so well, let's see. Trying
to keep it a shorter story time,

568
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:24.559
okay. I love telling these stories
and honoring the tremendous courage of the witnesses

569
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:28.840
that participated, especially in that first
event, the main ninth conference. There,

570
00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:32.480
you know, the tension in the
room was just palpable as these men

571
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:37.280
stepped forward to share their testimony in
front of the National Press Club cameras.

572
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:44.280
There a very well attended event in
terms of media, although those that might

573
00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:45.679
not have been following it very close
you would never have known, because,

574
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:51.000
as is somewhat sometimes typical, even
though all the press were there, I

575
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:53.280
have my own, you know,
disposable camera snapshots of all the people their

576
00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:57.719
cameras, and that room was full
on don't one hundred and fifty people,

577
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:02.199
that was standing room crowd and that
large auditorium. There very little mentioned in

578
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:06.719
mainstream media the following day, some
ridicule, some you know, kind of

579
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:10.280
ho hum page three sort of thing, which of course was disheartening but somewhat

580
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:13.840
expected, especially at that time.
And like I mentioned earlier, it seems

581
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:19.880
like in the last ten years climates
changed considerably, which of course is noteworthy

582
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:22.360
and encouraging to those of us that
have followed us for so long and recognize

583
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:27.639
the importance of these subjects so well. Okay, Prior to me going there,

584
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:30.559
actually was contacted by a man named
Alfred Weber, who at the time

585
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:34.800
was working for the project, and
he encouraged me as a I live in

586
00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:39.920
Ashland, Oregon and so as an
Ashland constituent to he encouraged me to call

587
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:45.079
my you know, congressional representatives and
set up meetings, which I did to

588
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:50.039
be able to bring some of the
disclosure project witnesses right into the offices there

589
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:57.199
in the Congressional office buildings and speak
to staffers in those organ representatives' office.

590
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:00.639
So as you might imagine, that
was I had an experience so upon just

591
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:05.599
meeting these what I regard as heroes, especially those twenty two that that first

592
00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:09.280
testified there at the or I should
say gave testimony there at the at the

593
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:15.559
National Press Club. So you know, I was introduced to six of them,

594
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:17.760
I believe. I can't remember specifically
who I took to the meetings.

595
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:20.920
Well, I remember a few,
certainly. Daniel Sheen, who I'm still

596
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:22.480
in touch with and I've done projects
with, was one of them, Jorney

597
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:27.639
Distial Sheen. We can speak about
Hman in a few minutes. A senior

598
00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:30.440
staff member of the FAA, John
Callahan, was one of the people that

599
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:36.000
I piled into a taxi cab and
drove over there to meet with Greg Walden

600
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.320
and Widen. Walden and Whyden were
are two senators at the time. I

601
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:45.480
can't remember the name of our representative
of that time, unfortunately, but like

602
00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:47.559
I say, we had meetings with
their staff. Were unfortunately not able to

603
00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:52.159
speak with the Congress people themselves,
which I'm sure is fairly typical for those

604
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:58.400
kinds of constituent meetings. And well, I guess I want to say two

605
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:01.760
things here. So it was a
really interest sting education for me to kind

606
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:07.800
of get a glimpse of the inner
workings of how Congress operates and who staff

607
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:13.480
those offices and their interests and disinterest
you might say. And so in other

608
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:17.920
words, we were met with not
exactly a warm reception on these subjects,

609
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:22.199
even though you know, the credibility
and credentials of course of these these kinds

610
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:24.239
of people that I was bringing there, you know, speak for themselves,

611
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:28.559
so they're really in my mind.
Anyway, there was no question about you

612
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:32.639
know, this is something to take
seriously. But unfortunately, especially at that

613
00:43:32.679 --> 00:43:38.239
time, climate was not conducive,
you might say, to the Congress people

614
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:43.000
taking this very seriously. Also,
during that week we spent back through me

615
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:45.199
and two of my friends and all
my new friends that I met from the

616
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:51.800
Disclosure Project, we hand delivered briefing
packets to every single one of those offices,

617
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:58.320
hundreds videotape testimony the VHS tapes,
the testimony that Steve Greer had gone

618
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:01.159
around and recorded mostly in the witness
those living rooms, and then you know,

619
00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:07.159
summary packages that summarize the key points. So and just in doing that,

620
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:09.599
like I say, it was just
a really interesting education to see how

621
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:15.079
the inner workings of Washington really go. So a lot of the reception you

622
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:19.320
received was kind of and I know
the feeling, you know, because I

623
00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:22.440
go to when you go to a
new studio, sometimes it's like that.

624
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:24.960
You know, some of the people
are kind of they just kind of look

625
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:29.920
with you funny. They maybe have
a half smile, or they just don't

626
00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:34.119
look very happy. They're not you
know, open with open arms and big

627
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:37.599
smiles. Sometimes they are, but
not always. So I know the feeling.

628
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:42.920
But you received a lot of this
kind of we're begrudgingly kind of humoring

629
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.440
you type of thing. Yeah.
Unfortunately, although even at that time I

630
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:52.239
understood that, and maybe a little
later we can talk about how, you

631
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:57.280
know, the social climate has been
perhaps manipulated to be that way. In

632
00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:01.719
other words, I think that a
lot of people that aren't inclined to look

633
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:05.800
into these subjects on their own,
you know, the ridicule factor. I

634
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:08.400
come to believe is kind of a
manipulated circumstance. So it's not exactly human

635
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:13.800
nature that does that. It's kind
of molded that way, which is unfortunate

636
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:16.360
of course. But again I think
that's changing rapidly as that I think it

637
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:20.320
needs to as we well, let
me back up a little bit. When

638
00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:22.599
I was setting setting up those meetings, which took quite a few phone calls,

639
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:24.519
it really wasn't that hard. It
just took a lot of follow up,

640
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:28.960
uh, to actually to actually get
a time booked, especially since we

641
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:34.079
only had a fairly small window to
do it, and we were advised not

642
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:37.760
to use the term you know,
extraterrestrials or unidentified flying objects or any of

643
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.119
that. So it was more about
like the subject of the meeting you might

644
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:45.440
say that I set up with those
three representatives was alternative energy technologies, which

645
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:47.960
is, you know, I'm sure
a lot of your listeners realize, is

646
00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:55.960
kind of a very practical or very
pragmatic reason to study the UFO phenomena because

647
00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:01.280
perhaps, like many have come forward
and shared, likely there are technologies that

648
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:06.639
have been kept secret for whatever reason
that potentially could render you know, fossil

649
00:46:06.679 --> 00:46:12.119
fuel learning unnecessary and g that's a
pretty significant possibility, so let's try to

650
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:15.199
get to the bottom of that.
So that's kind of with the how we

651
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:17.599
couched what the meetings would be about. But immediately, of course, we

652
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:22.159
got right into why those people were
testifying for the Disclosure Project, and that's

653
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:27.079
when they started to raise and eyes
started to roll and all that kind of

654
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:31.400
stuff. So yeah, we weren't
taken very seriously unfortunately. M Were there

655
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:37.760
any surprises where people were like very
open and excited about all of this and

656
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:40.840
maybe didn't mind broaching the UFO topic
or did you have to find that at

657
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:47.159
all? I don't think we even
though you know, like I said,

658
00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:52.599
me and others walked around over those
few days hand delivering the packages to the

659
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:57.159
receptionists anyway, at those at all
those offices beyond the three meetings that I

660
00:46:57.159 --> 00:47:00.599
had set up specifically, No,
unfortunately, Alihandra, I I'm sorry to

661
00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:04.199
say that there was very little reception
that I can recall anyway. But what

662
00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:07.320
I can say though, is when
following that event, I got invited to

663
00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:12.639
be an assistant tour director for Steve
Greer in the project. You know,

664
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:16.360
we went around to I think it
was eighteen cities around the United States and

665
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:24.559
Canada presenting the Disclosure Project to you
know, various communities. So there was

666
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:30.000
where we really felt tremendous reception,
sometimes by you know, civic leaders and

667
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:36.440
other people of influence in these communities, but certainly by just the average general

668
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:40.639
public. We're very, very excited
that these witnesses were coming forward and sharing

669
00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:47.480
what they had been doing within these
projects within the government and industry related to

670
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:55.639
these extraterrestrial encounters and research projects,
et cetera. Now, I was wondering

671
00:47:55.639 --> 00:48:01.559
about the experience of some of these
witnesses because I know I have on occasion,

672
00:48:02.119 --> 00:48:07.840
you know, been able to work
with professionals or retired military and it's

673
00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:10.519
the first time they're talking about this
in the public, and they're really nervous

674
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:14.760
and they think that they're going to
be met with a lot of derision,

675
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:22.840
but they're very happily excited when the
UFO community is receptive. Did some of

676
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:25.599
the witnesses that you were taking a
rent did they feel that way that they

677
00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:30.960
have a lot of apprehensions. Absolutely, And that's part of the story that

678
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:37.320
I often get goosebumps and I relate
to people the feeling see, how do

679
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:39.960
I explain this concisely. So you
know, these are as you know,

680
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.239
and I'm sure a lot of the
listeners have looked into the Disclosure Project and

681
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:46.719
read the witness list there, particularly
those twenty two they were at the press

682
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:51.519
club that we're talking about. These
are very high ranking people, very serious

683
00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:54.000
people who have nothing to gain.
These people aren't selling books and are on

684
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:57.960
lecture tours. A few of them
have since, but certainly at that time

685
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:02.440
they were unknown to the UFOUCH community
for the most part, and so upon

686
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:07.719
just meeting them and thanking them and
congratulating them and encouraging them for what they

687
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:10.960
were doing. The experience of them
kind of turning the tables and saying no

688
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:15.599
thank you, meeting me and the
rest of the staff there for the opportunity

689
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:19.559
for them to get these things off
their chest was just an unexpected and very

690
00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:23.840
very gratifying, touching experience for me. And I'll just cherish those memories of

691
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:30.760
the relationships I have grown with some
of those witnesses and so yes, certainly

692
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:35.960
the experience for them for the most
part has been has been tremendous as well

693
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:39.079
as they have been received so well
by at least the UFO research community.

694
00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:45.000
And more and more people now as
the subject becomes more socially acceptable to talk

695
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.760
about. I want to talk a
little bit about Daniel Sheehan too, because

696
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:53.280
I know he's a friend of yours. You talk with him, and I

697
00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:58.920
don't know if people realize how important
he was to the disclosure project because he

698
00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:04.559
kind of set that legal precedents.
Well, he put up his help saying

699
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:07.760
that, look, if you guys
come forward, I will be sure that

700
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:14.320
to represent you, should there be
any ramifications for you talking about things that

701
00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:19.920
you're supposedly not to speak about,
because his argument was that any of these

702
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:24.800
things you weren't supposed to talk about
supposedly if they were not legal anyway,

703
00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:30.039
And so that I think, from
what I hear, helped a lot of

704
00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:37.480
those people because they did have some
legal representations. Should there be any backlash?

705
00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:39.679
Sure, Danny Sheen has become a
mentor and friend of mine, and

706
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:45.599
if we've booked on several projects together, reason invited me to participate in a

707
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:47.239
lot of the things that he's been
doing. Boy, where do you start

708
00:50:47.239 --> 00:50:52.960
with Danny Sheen? Well, those
that don't know that name, I don't

709
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:54.400
have this buyo in front of me, although it runs three or four pages.

710
00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:00.599
As you probably know well, he's
well known for work with defending Karen

711
00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:06.639
Silkwood in the Silkwood Case, a
great film that portrays what happened there.

712
00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:12.920
Certainly the Pentagon papers, the Iran
Contra affair, those are ones that people

713
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:15.079
would have heard about. Then there's
several others. Right now, he's working

714
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:22.320
with the Lakota Indian tribes up in
South Dakota with challenges with child abuse and

715
00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:27.480
what happens you know, way off
in the reservations that the mainstream news media

716
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:32.039
just isn't aware of some real unfortunate
the tents that he's trying to represent those

717
00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:36.840
those poor people about. So that's
kind of his focus these days. But

718
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:39.480
others will know. Your listeners will
know that he's spoken of these conferences.

719
00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:46.960
He's extremely articulate about the idea of
extraterrestrial contact and exopolitics, and especially from

720
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:52.400
a kind of a theological point of
view. I suppose you'd say, implications

721
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:57.480
for religious beliefs and the like,
but again especially also the you know,

722
00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:00.159
sociological ramifications like I should say,
and things that we need to be started

723
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:08.840
starting to you know, proactively preemptively
consider as we entered a larger universe of

724
00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:15.480
intelligent life perhaps, and so was
that What was it like? I mean,

725
00:52:15.559 --> 00:52:23.360
he he's just very thoughtful, he's
very spiritual, he's very he's just

726
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:29.599
such an interesting guy. So I
guess at the inception of your friendship with

727
00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:35.760
him, what were your impressions of
him when you first met him? Well,

728
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:37.519
I suppose I had heard of him. I'm not really sure. I

729
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:40.960
was first introduced to who he was
in the body of work that he's achieved

730
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:45.039
in his life, which is again
very significant. I just didn't even do

731
00:52:45.039 --> 00:52:49.239
the tip of the iceberg. Just
there a lot of good stuff. Well,

732
00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:52.480
we just seem to have a you
know, immediate rapport, and I

733
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:57.159
was, just like many people are, upon meeting that man, very impressed

734
00:52:57.199 --> 00:53:02.480
with his intellect and his ability to
articulate for complex ideas. His well,

735
00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:06.719
how would you say, is very
you know, approachable, and he'll talk

736
00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:08.559
to anybody and we'll talk your ear
off all night long with just incredible stories

737
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:12.639
about the kinds of things that he's
been involved in. And it's just a

738
00:53:13.239 --> 00:53:16.039
fascinating experience anytime I'm with him.
But like you said, he's just a

739
00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:22.159
very you know, humanitarian or oriented
kind of person who is very interested in

740
00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:28.519
furthering humanitarian causes. His role with
the Disclosure Project is compared to some of

741
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:30.719
the other witnesses, I would say, it's not all that significant, and

742
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:35.559
he would agree. Briefly. The
summary of that is he was asked by

743
00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:40.920
the Carter administration to get into the
National Archive and see if there's any documentation

744
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:45.960
on the Roswell incident in nineteen forty
seven, and he was granted access to

745
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:52.840
a small amount of files or something, and so he just was giving testimony

746
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:57.119
with the Disclosure Project regarding that.
But like you said, Alejandro, he

747
00:53:57.199 --> 00:54:01.360
was this greater role with the Disclosure
Project was to offer legal advice and counsel

748
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:07.119
to the people coming forward that had
concerns about you know, ramifications of breaking

749
00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:09.119
their secret CEOs, et cetera.
And to my knowledge, there has been

750
00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:14.960
zero any nobody's been threatened, No
family members have been threatened, No you

751
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:17.280
know, why are tapping or any
of that sort of stuff to any of

752
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:22.280
these people. They've been completely unfettered
by by coming forward the way they have.

753
00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:28.119
What the course is very encouraging and
should also serve as a motivator for

754
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:30.719
other people that might be on the
fence that have things to add to the

755
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:36.280
research with their involvement in these secret
projects, and so I would encourage them

756
00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:39.599
to come forward to What I think
is interesting too, is now that we

757
00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:45.639
are a decade or so away from
from that, the newer of people getting

758
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:49.440
involved with this. It seems like
it kind of comes in ways where you

759
00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:53.599
have these new generations of people getting
interested in the subject once they find out

760
00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:58.239
there's a lot more behind the scenes
that they didn't know about, right,

761
00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:02.239
And it's interesting to me all of
the people who aren't aware of, you

762
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:07.159
know, Disclosure Project, that people
getting involved or the witnesses. And even

763
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:14.760
when I had met you, you
provided me with a box full of DVDs

764
00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:19.639
and videos which I gave out and
got it. How was a friend of

765
00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:22.639
mine helped me get some into the
libraries, but I wasn't aware of,

766
00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:27.360
ok, A four hour videos that
you provided. There was a lot more

767
00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:30.599
interviews that Greer went out and was
able to get, and it's important stuff

768
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:37.079
mostly you can get online, but
people really need to really take a look

769
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:40.239
at and look at all the documents
that are still on the Disclosure Project site

770
00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:45.880
to see just a number of witnesses
and the high level of credibility of all

771
00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:51.920
of these witnesses, right, absolutely, Thanks for highlighting that, Alejandro,

772
00:55:52.039 --> 00:55:53.840
and like I should have mentioned a
few minutes ago, it was okay.

773
00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:58.559
Prior to me engaging with the disclosure
projects and being invited to be on that

774
00:55:58.599 --> 00:56:02.239
stuff, I've never had any what
I could call, you know, close

775
00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:06.599
encounters with the phenomenon per se.
You know, I've done a lot of

776
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:09.480
desert camping and you know, been
outside certainly looking at the sky a lot.

777
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:13.719
So I've seen unusual things in the
sky like I think many of us

778
00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:16.360
have, but nothing that I would
you know, conclusively call an extraterrestrial contact

779
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:21.159
or a true UFO siding like other
people you know have experienced. So for

780
00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:24.800
me, you know, my belief, I suppose you'd say, has has

781
00:56:25.480 --> 00:56:31.480
come from scales being tipped sometimes,
I'll say, with the credibility of these

782
00:56:32.599 --> 00:56:36.880
witnesses, especially the military people or
airline pilots, you know, people that

783
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:39.599
have nothing to gain, everything to
lose, you might say, by coming

784
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:43.639
forward. So the weight of that
evidence, I guess you might say for

785
00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:47.159
me, has been what's really tipped
my scales into becoming a believer in these

786
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:52.719
subjects, you know, against short
of my own up close and personal experiences.

787
00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:57.320
So yeah, so I, like
you just said, it's it's important.

788
00:56:57.400 --> 00:57:01.599
I think that people new and old
to these fields become more familiar with

789
00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:07.920
Disclosure Project witnesses and others. And
it's just tremendous resource, YouTube and all

790
00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:10.599
the things on the Internet that that
material is so much more available and easily

791
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:16.840
accessible for the person to start their
own research inquiry into these subjects. Now,

792
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:22.159
how do you feel about the aftermath? You touched a little bit on

793
00:57:22.719 --> 00:57:25.920
what I felt at the time too, And what really inspired me was the

794
00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:30.800
lack of the media really running with
this, because that's what got me motivated.

795
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:34.639
I was a newshound at the time. I was always curious why UFOs

796
00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:38.840
weren't a bigger topic, and when
I asked, you know, my people

797
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:43.840
in the field of journalism, you
know, they would all say, well,

798
00:57:43.880 --> 00:57:45.159
you know, if there was some
real evidence, if we had something,

799
00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:49.199
we'd run with it, because that
would be the greatest story ever.

800
00:57:49.559 --> 00:57:52.679
You know. The disclosure guys handed
them this story and they didn't run with

801
00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:58.480
it. And I found there's more
to it that we got to work a

802
00:57:58.480 --> 00:58:01.199
lot harder to get this story out. Now, one aspect and I think

803
00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:07.840
doctor Gray talks about this, is
that disclosure happens. They provided disclosure,

804
00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:10.360
a lot of credible people, a
lot of military people came out and taught,

805
00:58:10.760 --> 00:58:14.599
and I see that, and I
kind of agree with that. On

806
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:17.559
the other hand, there's a lot
of people out there who feel that,

807
00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:23.320
not disappointed with, I think necessarily
the people who put on the disclosure project,

808
00:58:23.320 --> 00:58:28.280
but disappointed in thinking we need to
really shove this in the media and

809
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:34.519
government space more to get things rolling. And they feel that a little disappointed

810
00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:37.840
in that it didn't have the impact
that it should have, maybe just because

811
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:42.400
I'm always into the you know,
everything is the way it should be,

812
00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:45.559
and I feel that it did get
a lot of people involved and it had

813
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:53.280
a great impact. How do you
feel about that? Well, yeah,

814
00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:55.960
I like what you just said.
And here's my version of that. The

815
00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:00.599
world is perfect, exactly the way
it is, including those efforts to make

816
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.079
it better. I take a lot
of a lot of refuge in that idea

817
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:08.199
when I get frustrated about the pace
of social change and especially the UFO disclosure

818
00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:15.480
issue. Well, let's see,
I feel the term I've used and heard

819
00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:19.000
other peoples used is kind of the
soft disclosure idea, an idea of soft

820
00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:23.079
disclosure, meaning it hasn't really happened
in the way that Stephen Greer or Steve

821
00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:28.239
Bassett, who I'm sure your listeners
know of, or others that have made

822
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:35.239
efforts for that kind of formal governmental
level disclosure. So that may never happen

823
00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:37.480
in my opinion, and perhaps I'm
wondering, as I've had, you know,

824
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:40.400
a decade now, like you said, to kind of continue to be

825
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:45.159
steeped in these ideas and consider it
more. Perhaps that's that's a more appropriate

826
00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:50.360
approach, at least for Western societies. A lot of people have their own

827
00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:54.880
opinions, of course, and myself
as well speculate about the consequences of a

828
00:59:55.239 --> 01:00:00.039
hard disclosure to contrast with the idea
of the soft disclosure. If Obama or

829
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:04.760
any government official of high rank,
you know, interrupts this news broadcast for

830
01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:07.840
an announcement of what's been kept secret
in area fifty one for all these years,

831
01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:12.760
you know, that might unnecessarily cause
an awful lot of strife. And

832
01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:15.519
so perhaps people that are in charge
of these things, whoever they might be.

833
01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:21.360
I have considered that very very carefully
and concluded that doing it the way

834
01:00:21.400 --> 01:00:24.480
perhaps it's been happening in the last
five years or so longer, perhaps through

835
01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:30.800
television program documentaries and through fictional Hollywood
movies and then that sort of thing.

836
01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:37.599
That that is a is a more
you know, appropriate and likely strategically effective

837
01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:44.199
way to finally get this information out
in a way that wouldn't necessarily cause disruption

838
01:00:44.440 --> 01:00:49.360
to social systems and beliefs, especially
religion and governments, et cetera. So

839
01:00:49.480 --> 01:00:52.519
I guess I've become a lot more
comfortable with the idea that it didn't quite

840
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:55.679
happen the way that we were imagining
back in two thousand and one or so

841
01:00:55.760 --> 01:01:00.400
with the efforts and disclosure project.
Also, I want to mention that that's

842
01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:05.159
that particular event May nine, two
thousand and one, isn't the only time

843
01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:08.079
efforts like that have been conducted.
You're gonna have to help them in the

844
01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:10.639
history, have to help them with
the history a little bit, because I

845
01:01:10.639 --> 01:01:14.840
don't know exactly the names or the
dates, but I know Steve Bassett has

846
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:16.639
made his own efforts to do that
a couple of times at that same venue,

847
01:01:16.679 --> 01:01:21.719
the National Press Club, during Washington, DC, and and long prior

848
01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:25.920
to that, well actually since then, who was it John Podesta right,

849
01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:31.519
Leslie Kane and others did a and
that was a few years after Steve Greer's

850
01:01:31.519 --> 01:01:34.599
effort there in two thousand and one. I don't know the exact date.

851
01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:37.079
That one, I think got a
little bit more attention. Do you know

852
01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:39.039
the date or details of that one. That's because, yeah, that one

853
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:44.440
was in conjunction with the Sci Fi
Channel, So that's why it got a

854
01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:49.239
little more attention. It's funny because
I write about these things a lot,

855
01:01:49.360 --> 01:01:52.639
especially the Podesta one, but I
always get mixed up on date. But

856
01:01:53.239 --> 01:01:58.679
let's see, November two thousand and
seven sounds about right, two thousand and

857
01:01:58.679 --> 01:02:01.159
seven. I want a guest to
so. In other words, the media,

858
01:02:01.639 --> 01:02:06.719
national media has had more than a
few opportunities to to cover this story

859
01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:09.920
that, like you said, was
just practically handed to them. Because you

860
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:14.280
know, an issue that you and
I and others that study these things closely

861
01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:19.960
consider is what would be the mechanism
that would really would on societal level,

862
01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:25.000
top down technically apparently effectively, as
it happened so many years, you know,

863
01:02:25.559 --> 01:02:31.119
quell quash interest, the ridicule curtain, laughter curtain. Santon Friedman likes

864
01:02:31.159 --> 01:02:35.559
to call it, and I'm very
very fascinated by that element. You know,

865
01:02:35.559 --> 01:02:37.920
if if somebody asked me, you
know, of all the related subjects

866
01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:45.840
that pertain to UFOs extraterrestrial contact,
my my area of acute interest, I

867
01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:52.760
guess you might say, is is
that the sociological ramifications and implications and how

868
01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:57.679
the true believers versus the ardent skeptics
and everything in between, and how you

869
01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:01.039
paradigms and belief systems are shaped and
they change over time, and the influences

870
01:03:01.719 --> 01:03:05.960
you know, that cause people to
change their beliefs about things, especially something

871
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:10.679
as significant again i'll say, as
what apparently the UFO phenomena represents for us

872
01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:15.480
as the human species. So again
I don't really have answers to that,

873
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:19.599
you know, the Robertson panel nineteen
fifty one. I think listeners will be

874
01:03:19.599 --> 01:03:27.159
familiar with what that's about. And
CIA's efforts allegedly to manipulate public opinion using

875
01:03:27.400 --> 01:03:31.639
media like the Disney Corporation and Madison
Avenue advertising agencies, et cetera, to

876
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:37.199
to you know, too poo these
subjects and not take them seriously, which,

877
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:39.840
if that's the case, has apparently
been very very effective up until maybe

878
01:03:39.880 --> 01:03:45.199
the last five or ten years or
so is as opinions seemed to be changing

879
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:49.400
about that, the opinion of the
public that this is a taboo subject or

880
01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:54.679
not. And again, you know, if I were in charge of how

881
01:03:54.719 --> 01:04:00.519
these things plan, I wouldn't necessarily
call for the the the formal disclosure like

882
01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:04.320
the Disclosure Project and other efforts like
that have done. Kind of circling back

883
01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:08.000
to what I said a minute ago, I would call at this point or

884
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:15.280
any point, I suppose for a
lot more public resources devoted to studying these

885
01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:18.719
things if given the imports and the
implications what they apparently are. At this

886
01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:25.639
point, it just seems like so
little public monies, even private monies,

887
01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:30.000
resources intellect has been devoted to this, And so I would I would like

888
01:04:30.039 --> 01:04:34.920
to see a lot more being brought
to bear on these questions and start answering

889
01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:41.400
them in an intelligent forum, free
from ridicules and free from what has been

890
01:04:41.559 --> 01:04:45.280
obviously the biggest obstacle thus far.
Yeah, I don't know. I have

891
01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:50.519
a positive outlook in that, you
know, I it was I think it's

892
01:04:50.599 --> 01:04:54.400
more than just one person. It's
been quoted a lot, but I know

893
01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:59.400
Chopenhauer hower it said, you know
three truths or all truths passed through three

894
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:03.599
stages. It's ridicule, than opposed, and then before it's accepted as self

895
01:05:03.639 --> 01:05:10.079
evident. And I think those stages
are so subtle that there are not lines

896
01:05:10.119 --> 01:05:13.880
where all of a sudden it goes
from ridicule to opposition to self evidence.

897
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:18.719
That where we've kind of been muddled
in this ridicule opposition stage. But slowly

898
01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:27.119
the self evident stage is coming,
and at least in my view from over

899
01:05:27.159 --> 01:05:30.199
the years, it seems like more
and more of these things are being accepted

900
01:05:30.199 --> 01:05:33.960
as self evident. And I think
a case in point would be how well

901
01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:41.079
accepted something like the Ancient Aliens television
show is, which is doing very well.

902
01:05:41.719 --> 01:05:44.039
Yes, I think it's a start
this fourth season, just this week,

903
01:05:44.079 --> 01:05:45.960
I think, yeah, And that's
just done a tremendous amount. I

904
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:48.000
think, of course, as you
know and many of the listeners know,

905
01:05:48.039 --> 01:05:54.400
I'm sure that there's been a tremendous
amount of History channel, Discovery channel,

906
01:05:54.440 --> 01:06:00.519
Learning channel style documentaries over the years, and I noticed something self. Anyway,

907
01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:02.280
I haven't checked this out with other
people that pay attention to the way

908
01:06:02.320 --> 01:06:06.280
the media portrays these things. Sometime
around ninety five, I'm going to guess

909
01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:11.920
or excuse me, two thousand and
five, the tone of those programs seem

910
01:06:11.960 --> 01:06:15.239
to change very distinctly at very kind
of a d mark point almost the way

911
01:06:15.239 --> 01:06:18.039
I think about it, in approximately
two thousand and five, where it went

912
01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:23.039
from very speculative language. You know, we suppose these ideas and you know,

913
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:26.360
allegedly this person had such a thing, and you know, that kind

914
01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:29.440
of language, to a much more
definitive you know, these things are happening,

915
01:06:29.440 --> 01:06:31.000
and this is how it is,
and almost to the other end of

916
01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:34.360
the pendulum swing. I feel with
some of the programs that I've watched the

917
01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:38.880
ancient alien stuff, especially since so
much of that stuff is new even to

918
01:06:38.920 --> 01:06:42.320
the veteran researchers. I'm sure you
know, all these new sites, archaeological

919
01:06:42.320 --> 01:06:45.239
digs that have been uncovered, and
you know, artifacts that are being discovered,

920
01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:48.239
is just an enormous amount of brand
new material that I think, for

921
01:06:48.280 --> 01:06:51.199
me anyway, and I'm sure for
lots of others, is brand new stuff

922
01:06:51.199 --> 01:06:56.119
and kind of takes me back to
where it feels like, Wow, we

923
01:06:56.239 --> 01:07:00.719
just need to be devoting some more
of our society's resources to investigating these things,

924
01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:03.599
you know, beyond a little bit
that's already being done. That's certainly

925
01:07:03.599 --> 01:07:06.880
not to take away from the work
of people like Georgio to Cocolis, who's

926
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:13.960
executive producer. I think of ancient
aliens and others. That list is long,

927
01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:16.800
and Michael Primo and a lot of
these people that have been delving into

928
01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:21.719
the archaeological aspects of contact, which
you know, not to skip around too

929
01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:27.719
much. But I think it's you
know, the skeptics that seem to get

930
01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:32.239
an awful lot of media airtime will
often kind of make the innuendo or make

931
01:07:32.280 --> 01:07:36.920
the comparison that, you know,
people that are believers in UFO contact,

932
01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:41.079
you know, perhaps have just seen
close encounters too many times or other other

933
01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:44.920
things in the movies. And I
think the the you know, biggest trump

934
01:07:44.960 --> 01:07:47.320
card to that counter argument is,
of course, look at all this stuff

935
01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:53.519
in ancient history that you know,
people making those cave drawings or the murals

936
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:58.400
on the walls of churches, for
example, not too many people watching Steven

937
01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:00.119
Spielberg films back then, so so
in other words, and those are the

938
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:03.719
things that have survived. I think
it's another piece to remember when we start

939
01:08:03.800 --> 01:08:10.960
examining archaeological evidence of EAT contact is
you know, Catholic Church and you know,

940
01:08:11.400 --> 01:08:15.159
Library of Alexandria burning, and these
are just the artifacts that have been

941
01:08:15.199 --> 01:08:20.560
discovered and have survived efforts perhaps to
make them go away. So in other

942
01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:25.920
words, it's a lot to be
discovered there and a lot of interpreted.

943
01:08:26.319 --> 01:08:30.520
And so that's where I feel a
lot of the resources should be devoted to

944
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:34.359
understanding all those aspects that are right. Yeah, and I agree with you

945
01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:39.359
about the television shows in around two
thousand and five because and I think it

946
01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:42.960
started with the History Channel, because
all of a sudden, it used to

947
01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:47.119
be, you know, you would
the television shows always had to have skeptics

948
01:08:47.159 --> 01:08:51.079
throughout or order the bunkers really throughout, and they would end with the de

949
01:08:51.199 --> 01:08:56.039
bunkers, wrap the whole thing up. But all of a sudden that was

950
01:08:56.239 --> 01:09:00.359
gone, and all of a sudden
it was devoid of skeptics are debunkers at

951
01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:04.319
all, although you know, because
a lot of researchers are already skeptic.

952
01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:08.800
I mean they're already you know,
presenting things and here's what we know,

953
01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:12.720
here's the evidence. They're very fair
already without needing, you know, a

954
01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:15.319
third party to come in and say
that a blow it all off. So

955
01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:20.880
I have recognized that change as well, and that's it's a great thing,

956
01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:27.359
and it certainly to me demonstrates a
move in the right direction to hopefully,

957
01:09:28.600 --> 01:09:35.439
like you said, we will get
more resources to research these very important things.

958
01:09:35.479 --> 01:09:40.640
But I think one of the things
we have to remember is in any

959
01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:45.039
field, there are a lot of
areas that are very important. Even cancer

960
01:09:45.119 --> 01:09:50.039
research runs into this problem where the
research doesn't happen because there's no profit that

961
01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:57.079
can be gained. And so for
people, especially in the public sector,

962
01:09:58.039 --> 01:10:01.840
in order for them to devote anience
is they've got to see some profit that

963
01:10:01.880 --> 01:10:06.199
will result from it down the road. Very good point, and let's let's

964
01:10:06.279 --> 01:10:11.399
you know, let's put in a
good word for scientific skepticism. I think

965
01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:15.279
for me anyway, for a long
time, I had a very difficult time

966
01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:19.920
understanding the distinction between debunking and skepticism. And I'm not sure in this moment

967
01:10:19.960 --> 01:10:24.680
I can speak well to the distinctions
between the two. But like you're saying,

968
01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:29.159
typically prior to maybe two thousand and
five or so, news shows or

969
01:10:29.199 --> 01:10:32.920
documentaries would go grab the debunkers,
would I would guess more so than than

970
01:10:33.199 --> 01:10:40.399
a true skeptic. And so you
know, scientific skepticism and tools like that,

971
01:10:40.520 --> 01:10:45.119
of course have a very important and
prominent role in UFO research. Of

972
01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:47.760
course, it's a difficult feel to
study, as you know, and so

973
01:10:49.199 --> 01:10:54.680
I'm certainly not saying let's not be
very skeptical and cautious about the research.

974
01:10:54.800 --> 01:10:58.000
And you know, we could talk
more about that perhaps, So yeah,

975
01:10:58.039 --> 01:11:01.600
So I'm glad to see, like
you're a great that media is taking a

976
01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:05.880
different look at this, and I
really am so pleased. You know,

977
01:11:05.960 --> 01:11:12.720
Larry King, Larry King Live Show
has done many, many programs on the

978
01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:15.640
UFO subjects, and I think,
you know, at least in that kind

979
01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:18.880
of vein of mainstream media, did
a pretty fair job about showing both sides

980
01:11:18.920 --> 01:11:21.960
and didn't you know, like you
say in those programs with a kind of

981
01:11:21.960 --> 01:11:27.199
a smirk. So I congratulate him
and others like him who have taken this

982
01:11:27.239 --> 01:11:30.880
subject on, you know, as
you would expect journalists would think to do.

983
01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:34.920
And I don't know to what degree
he had to kind of twist the

984
01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:38.920
arms of his producers or whatever to
be able to do those programs, but

985
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:43.119
it was great to see so many
going back so far. I think Steve

986
01:11:43.159 --> 01:11:46.479
Greers, one of first doctor Stephen
gears first media appearances was on UFO.

987
01:11:46.680 --> 01:11:51.920
I'm sorry, on Larry King Live
Back Live in the Nevada Deserts as I

988
01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:57.840
recall that program sometime in the mid
nineties. So let's certainly give credit where

989
01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:01.159
credit is due to the media professionals
that have acted responsibly, I'd say,

990
01:12:01.520 --> 01:12:06.640
in taking a solid look at this
without the kind of obligatory skeptical take,

991
01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:11.319
which, like we both degree,
seems to be changing thankfully. Yeah.

992
01:12:11.359 --> 01:12:14.560
I agree with you with Larry King, and hopefully now that he's retired,

993
01:12:14.680 --> 01:12:17.119
someone will be able to get an
interview with him or we'll be able to

994
01:12:17.159 --> 01:12:21.760
ask those questions. Was it difficult
for you to get the producers to agree

995
01:12:21.760 --> 01:12:26.520
to these shows? What was your
interest? Why were you so interested in?

996
01:12:26.560 --> 01:12:30.039
What did he find most compelling?
And there were times where, you

997
01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:32.399
know, the debunker, he's arguing
with the debunker, not the apologist.

998
01:12:32.439 --> 01:12:39.000
He's telling the bunker very ridiculous.
Yeah, so that was really exciting,

999
01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:43.560
and hopefully another news person will pick
that up. Yeah, and it's interesting

1000
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:45.319
and I wonder if we could even
between us kind of just brainstorm a bit

1001
01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:49.840
of a list of celebrities like that
who seem to have their own, you

1002
01:12:49.880 --> 01:12:54.319
know, personal personal interest in this
and aren't shy about you know, coming

1003
01:12:54.359 --> 01:12:59.920
forward and their media occurrences and their
public personas you know, lending their credibility

1004
01:13:00.479 --> 01:13:05.079
or lending credibility via their celebrity to
the subject. One that immediately comes to

1005
01:13:05.119 --> 01:13:08.960
mind, of course, is dan
Acroyd. That's a lot of people might

1006
01:13:09.199 --> 01:13:13.560
know. He produced a video called
what is It? Dan Acrid Unplugged on

1007
01:13:13.680 --> 01:13:15.520
UFOs, I think is the title. I was very impressed when I saw

1008
01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:19.960
that he just sits in front of
a camera and speaks very semporaneously the viewer

1009
01:13:19.960 --> 01:13:25.399
of the impression that he's very well
versed on these subjects, and I'd like

1010
01:13:25.439 --> 01:13:28.079
to see him step stuff out more
in the public eye. I know he's

1011
01:13:28.079 --> 01:13:30.079
been invited to the Open Minds conference
in the past, and I think he

1012
01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:32.520
was going to speak at mouf on
or something once too that didn't come together.

1013
01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:35.039
I don't recall who else can you
think of off the top of your

1014
01:13:35.039 --> 01:13:40.119
head celebrities that have endorsed the subject. No, that's a good point that

1015
01:13:40.159 --> 01:13:43.960
you make about dan Aykroyd. I
interviewed him recently too, and he is

1016
01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:47.319
like any of the top researchers.
He's so plugged into all of this.

1017
01:13:47.479 --> 01:13:51.479
He knows everything going on. When
I asked him, it was just after

1018
01:13:51.520 --> 01:13:55.920
by Hapkinson passed and he was talking
about that. He was aware of that,

1019
01:13:56.960 --> 01:14:00.720
let's see. But yeah, Sammy
Hagar recently writ and shy away from

1020
01:14:00.800 --> 01:14:08.960
it. There is also uh the
lead singer and I can't remember Tom DeLong

1021
01:14:09.079 --> 01:14:13.920
the lead singer of Link. Yes, yes, a big Steve geerfan,

1022
01:14:13.960 --> 01:14:16.600
those that that band. Yeah really, yeah, he's really into it and

1023
01:14:17.560 --> 01:14:21.159
they own them Best Shoes, which
has vegan shoes. I get. So

1024
01:14:23.399 --> 01:14:28.279
we doubly appreciate him because at Open
Minds because we have a few vegetarians there.

1025
01:14:28.680 --> 01:14:32.600
So yeah, these are just a
few, but they're very brave about

1026
01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:38.800
coming forward and not shying away,
which is which is great. And just

1027
01:14:38.840 --> 01:14:44.800
like with the military and industrial corporate
witnesses with the Disclosure Project that I would

1028
01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:47.920
like to think paved the way for
other people to come forward. These these

1029
01:14:48.159 --> 01:14:53.079
celebrities, like we're mentioning, hopefully
we'll do the same for other other celebrities

1030
01:14:53.119 --> 01:14:56.199
to follow suit as well. Oh
and I was surprised to Gourney Weaver.

1031
01:14:56.680 --> 01:15:00.239
She really came out when they she
was in the movie Paul and they asked

1032
01:15:00.239 --> 01:15:03.960
her about it, and this was
in another country, and she was really

1033
01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:09.479
just like, the government's hiding stuff. I'm sure they have recovered crash discs

1034
01:15:09.560 --> 01:15:12.720
and they really need to tell us
what's going on. I mean, she

1035
01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:15.279
was really into this stuff. Interesting. Yeah, well, as people know,

1036
01:15:15.399 --> 01:15:21.720
she's the star of the horror film
Alien, So she's an interesting type

1037
01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:26.840
of celebrity to come forward on these
issues. Not exactly a celebrity, but

1038
01:15:26.880 --> 01:15:30.520
another journalist I'd like to acknowledge George
Knapp, who is always coast to coast

1039
01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:33.720
program is time tremendous. He's but
fourteen Emmy's I think he's one not on

1040
01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:41.239
that subject. He's certainly a journalist
of eating the pack on being very open

1041
01:15:41.279 --> 01:15:46.039
minded of course. Right, Yeah, she's a journalist really who largely well

1042
01:15:46.119 --> 01:15:50.079
not just him on his own,
but a large part of it is him.

1043
01:15:50.359 --> 01:15:56.560
But certainly it's his news organization k
l AS that brought Area fifty one

1044
01:15:56.600 --> 01:16:03.199
to the public, right, and
they also brought the oh now I'm blanking

1045
01:16:03.199 --> 01:16:08.119
out on his name, but Bob
Lazare story to the public. But also

1046
01:16:08.279 --> 01:16:13.600
so they were instrumental in that.
And yeah, he's a great mainstream reporter

1047
01:16:13.640 --> 01:16:16.359
who's not upfraid to tackle the issue
and does on a regular basis. Yeah,

1048
01:16:16.359 --> 01:16:20.399
I really love his style. He
has been really great. Another journalist

1049
01:16:20.479 --> 01:16:26.439
that I met during the Disclosure Project
Leslie Kane, I know you know her

1050
01:16:26.479 --> 01:16:30.720
book. She was interviewed on the
Stephen Colbert program with her book, right

1051
01:16:30.840 --> 01:16:35.239
I think the title of her book
right now. But it's an interesting companion

1052
01:16:35.279 --> 01:16:41.760
study, i'd say to the Disclosure
Project because it goes into military witnesses,

1053
01:16:41.760 --> 01:16:45.479
and she traveled around and met some
of the people that in other countries,

1054
01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:49.199
France specifically, that have kind of
been doing their own version. That's something

1055
01:16:49.199 --> 01:16:54.119
else we need to mention too,
Alejandro is even though the United States has

1056
01:16:54.119 --> 01:16:58.399
been a little slow reducing formally secret
information, boy, as you know,

1057
01:16:58.439 --> 01:17:00.880
probably better than I do. In
the last world, would you say five

1058
01:17:00.960 --> 01:17:06.079
years or so, what is it
twenty? I think upwards of twenty countries

1059
01:17:06.119 --> 01:17:11.720
have come forward very publicly as far
as I know, and just laid it

1060
01:17:11.720 --> 01:17:15.880
all out. Yeah. Some of
them more along the lines of the US

1061
01:17:15.960 --> 01:17:18.880
like, oh see, here's our
files. There's not much there, but

1062
01:17:19.079 --> 01:17:23.119
some of them very active in saying, yeah, here's our files, and

1063
01:17:23.159 --> 01:17:27.199
we think they're interesting and we're we
think there's something real to this phenomenon too,

1064
01:17:27.239 --> 01:17:31.239
such as France and Argentina and Chile
and quite a few other countries that

1065
01:17:31.279 --> 01:17:35.800
are taking it very seriously. Right
just at the Open Minds conference, that

1066
01:17:36.079 --> 01:17:42.800
general from Chile, you know,
was calling for international joint efforts to pool

1067
01:17:42.840 --> 01:17:46.039
resources to study these phenomenas. So, you know, congratulations to the courage

1068
01:17:46.039 --> 01:17:51.079
and vision of people like him.
Ricardo Bermirez. Is that his name,

1069
01:17:51.199 --> 01:17:57.600
er Mute Bermudez. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've got about ten

1070
01:17:57.640 --> 01:18:01.239
minutes last night. Do you want
to really get in to kind of what

1071
01:18:01.319 --> 01:18:08.680
your main energy has been spended on
for since I've known you, which is

1072
01:18:08.680 --> 01:18:13.000
a really exciting thing. I think
it was first called, correct me if

1073
01:18:13.039 --> 01:18:16.319
I'm wrong, the Rogue Valley Metaphysical
Library, but a library, and now

1074
01:18:16.359 --> 01:18:20.680
it looks like it's the Rogue Valley
Free Media Exchange. So tell me about

1075
01:18:20.720 --> 01:18:26.039
how this started and what this is
all about, oh Ale Hunter, thank

1076
01:18:26.039 --> 01:18:30.960
you for asking this. Certainly is
my passion in life is to share information

1077
01:18:30.039 --> 01:18:35.039
around these subjects, particularly the UFO
information, with as many people as are

1078
01:18:35.039 --> 01:18:39.560
interested. And so, following my
work with Steve Ger, the Disclosure Project

1079
01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:44.880
came back home to Ashland, Oregon, and just you know, it was

1080
01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:49.840
impelled, I guess should say,
to begin an organization that would provide resources

1081
01:18:49.840 --> 01:18:55.039
for people to you know, continue
their own study. So Steve Ger spoke

1082
01:18:55.119 --> 01:18:58.279
here right around that time, probably
two thousand and two, can't remember the

1083
01:18:58.279 --> 01:19:02.680
exact date. Of six hundred people
came to that lecture at the Southern Oregon

1084
01:19:02.760 --> 01:19:06.640
University School here in Ashland, and
boy, that really kind of gave me

1085
01:19:06.720 --> 01:19:11.439
some encouragement that there was a lot
of interest in this area, Southern Oregon,

1086
01:19:13.119 --> 01:19:15.560
enough to you know, support us
founding a nonprofit lending library. So,

1087
01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:20.000
boy, long story short, how
can I do that? Boy?

1088
01:19:20.039 --> 01:19:24.239
It was It was one of those
kind of experiences in when you get really

1089
01:19:24.239 --> 01:19:27.680
clear about what your intentions are,
you know, just get out of the

1090
01:19:27.680 --> 01:19:30.359
way and let the universe support you. And no time in my life have

1091
01:19:30.439 --> 01:19:33.079
I better had a better example of
that is when we first founded the Lending

1092
01:19:33.119 --> 01:19:38.840
Library and approximately two thousand and one
there it was just easy and fun and

1093
01:19:39.399 --> 01:19:46.000
tremendously exciting to make that happen.
So the library has grown through donations primarily,

1094
01:19:46.039 --> 01:19:50.239
although we acquire some things on our
own with a small acquisition's budget.

1095
01:19:51.079 --> 01:19:57.439
We boast I guess I can say
the largest collection of UFO related study material

1096
01:19:58.039 --> 01:20:01.279
publicly available in the United States.
That right, perhaps the the Roswell Library.

1097
01:20:01.279 --> 01:20:04.039
If anybody gets to the Rossbelt Museum, make sure you kind of peek

1098
01:20:04.119 --> 01:20:08.439
behind the back desk there. When
I was there several years ago. If

1099
01:20:08.439 --> 01:20:10.760
I hadn't just happened to see the
sign, I would have missed it.

1100
01:20:10.760 --> 01:20:14.840
There's an incredible research library there in
Roswell, so ours is on par with

1101
01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:19.079
that. Wow, And and we
welcome anybody that wants to, you know,

1102
01:20:20.039 --> 01:20:25.319
avail themselves to those resources to come
and be a member and check it

1103
01:20:25.359 --> 01:20:29.640
out. So we operate the lending
library. And then other part of our

1104
01:20:29.720 --> 01:20:33.119
organization does you know, events,
discussion groups, lectures, of course,

1105
01:20:33.960 --> 01:20:38.560
both in our own facility here in
Ashland, but we also use other spaces

1106
01:20:38.600 --> 01:20:42.520
to accommodate larger audiences at the college. And also we're in Medford, Oregon,

1107
01:20:42.600 --> 01:20:47.279
the larger neighboring community cool so and
then now it's kind of this is

1108
01:20:47.319 --> 01:20:51.039
an interesting idea where it's kind of
a book exchange. So if you want

1109
01:20:51.079 --> 01:20:56.479
to borrow a book, everything's free, and it's something people can come in

1110
01:20:56.520 --> 01:21:00.760
and I mean for the people out
there and ask, I mean what a

1111
01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:04.479
resource to go work? I mean
I got a wall pull of books here

1112
01:21:04.720 --> 01:21:11.159
and they weren't free. Let me
make that distinction. Thanks for the opportunity.

1113
01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:14.640
So there's really kind of three elements
of our organizations. Okay, the

1114
01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:18.279
physical lending library with a focus on
the UFO phenomenon of course, and videos

1115
01:21:18.279 --> 01:21:21.399
as well. It's not just the
books, audios and videos that supplement that

1116
01:21:21.439 --> 01:21:27.840
also, So that's kind of our
core is the metaphysical library. Then events

1117
01:21:27.880 --> 01:21:30.600
of course, like I mentioned.
And then about when it was that four

1118
01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:35.079
years ago or so, we took
over an operation that another man had started

1119
01:21:35.079 --> 01:21:39.279
here in Nationland called time. It
was called Ashland Media Exchange. We changed

1120
01:21:39.319 --> 01:21:42.600
the name to Rogue Balley Free Media
Exchange when we took it over. So

1121
01:21:42.880 --> 01:21:47.399
that is is kind of like a
library. It's a book exchange, so

1122
01:21:48.119 --> 01:21:54.680
people bring books on any subject and
exchange them for books on any subject.

1123
01:21:54.680 --> 01:21:57.159
I guess is how you could say
it. So that's really and then and

1124
01:21:57.239 --> 01:21:59.880
we skim out, you know,
a small percentage one or two percent of

1125
01:21:59.880 --> 01:22:03.920
that stuff. We run through a
software program that we subscribe to that enables

1126
01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:09.680
us to list some of the items
that have value on Amazon and other online

1127
01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:13.920
book retailers like that. So that's
what's paying a large chunk of our overhead

1128
01:22:13.920 --> 01:22:17.600
actually is the generosity of the Ashling
community donating materials to us that we can

1129
01:22:17.640 --> 01:22:21.399
sell, that you know, base
of the rent basically. But then everything

1130
01:22:21.399 --> 01:22:26.640
else that doesn't sell, which again
is the majority ninety five or better percent

1131
01:22:26.680 --> 01:22:29.039
of that stuff just goes out back
on the shelves for free. So that's

1132
01:22:29.319 --> 01:22:35.199
that's not metaphysically or paranormal spiritual material
per se. That's all subjects fiction,

1133
01:22:35.279 --> 01:22:40.840
non fiction, and all subjects in
between there. So that's and we use

1134
01:22:40.920 --> 01:22:45.159
that kind of as a way to
you know, well, that word metaphysics.

1135
01:22:45.159 --> 01:22:46.800
If I had to do it all
over again, I think I would

1136
01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:50.840
have picked a synonymous term then,
the metaphysics because as you and other people

1137
01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:55.640
that have studied this for a while
unfortunately realize that term has baggage, I

1138
01:22:55.720 --> 01:23:00.520
like to say, right, And
so the media exchange, which is served

1139
01:23:00.520 --> 01:23:05.800
as a great vehicle to bring people
into our storefront that otherwise might have hesitancy

1140
01:23:05.800 --> 01:23:11.199
coming into something calling itself a metaphysical
library. And we're very very sensitive,

1141
01:23:11.319 --> 01:23:15.920
like I said at the beginning of
this conversation that it's a it's a delicate,

1142
01:23:15.119 --> 01:23:17.760
very delicate place that I have a
lot of regard for people who are

1143
01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:24.439
taking those first nervous steps outside of
their comfort zones and exploring ideas beyond what

1144
01:23:24.439 --> 01:23:28.800
the mainstream might call, you know, acceptable. So we very very diligently

1145
01:23:28.800 --> 01:23:33.119
and purposely keep our facility, you
know, clean and free of the types

1146
01:23:33.159 --> 01:23:38.760
of things that might typically be associated
with a metaphysical bookstore, metaphysical library.

1147
01:23:38.760 --> 01:23:42.079
So it's very you know, it
looks very much like a public library here

1148
01:23:42.119 --> 01:23:46.039
in terms of the decora and how
we present the material, like I say,

1149
01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:51.159
in a great effort to keep it
very safe for newcomers to come here

1150
01:23:51.279 --> 01:23:55.199
and feel that it is a welcoming
environment. That's uh, And we're not

1151
01:23:55.479 --> 01:23:58.159
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity again
to explain what we do here. We're

1152
01:23:58.159 --> 01:24:01.800
certainly not pushing any particular agenda,
and that's what people really appreciate most.

1153
01:24:01.840 --> 01:24:05.119
I think about the things we offer, it's it's the smorgess brogram information.

1154
01:24:05.199 --> 01:24:09.439
We don't sensor the things to put
out on their shelves, and to whatever

1155
01:24:09.520 --> 01:24:12.680
degree we do, it's it's it's
a pragmatic thing about you know, condition

1156
01:24:12.800 --> 01:24:15.479
hardcover, soft cover and donated books
that have underlining and all that kind of

1157
01:24:15.520 --> 01:24:20.159
stuff. So anything that gets not
included in the Metaphysical collection is for reasons

1158
01:24:20.199 --> 01:24:23.920
like that. So we just put
it out a that make people, give

1159
01:24:23.920 --> 01:24:27.920
people the opportunity to decide on their
own And and again it's it's subjects beyond

1160
01:24:28.079 --> 01:24:34.439
UFO thing, of course, all
aspects of metaphysical studies and and to some

1161
01:24:34.520 --> 01:24:41.880
degree theological studies. Although one of
our kind of credos or directives I guess

1162
01:24:42.319 --> 01:24:46.840
policies is because of limited resources and
limited shelf space, we try not to

1163
01:24:47.000 --> 01:24:50.600
duplicate materials that can easily be found
at a public library, at our church

1164
01:24:50.680 --> 01:24:57.039
library, other places in town,
so so we keep our resources focused on

1165
01:24:57.199 --> 01:25:00.079
things that aren't available elsewhere. I
also want to mention, because I know

1166
01:25:00.159 --> 01:25:03.239
that most of your listeners don't live
anywhere near Ashland, Oregon, that we

1167
01:25:03.319 --> 01:25:10.079
are happy to provide certain materials out
of the lending library to researchers you know,

1168
01:25:10.119 --> 01:25:15.760
around the world. So our website
is our VML dot org. And

1169
01:25:15.960 --> 01:25:17.800
if any of the listeners are looking
for anything in particular, especially some of

1170
01:25:17.800 --> 01:25:23.199
the more difficult to find UFO books
and videos, we're more than happy to

1171
01:25:23.479 --> 01:25:30.640
share that stuff with researchers. Okay, great, So I can just imagine,

1172
01:25:30.720 --> 01:25:33.760
especially if you're not covering we're keeping
the books that are available at a

1173
01:25:33.800 --> 01:25:39.960
regular library, or just what a
unique collection you must have. You know,

1174
01:25:40.600 --> 01:25:42.439
I try not to brag about it. Well, boy, it sure

1175
01:25:42.520 --> 01:25:45.960
is and I feel very, very
privileged to be the curator with other staff.

1176
01:25:45.960 --> 01:25:47.720
It's not just me, of course, that makes this thing happen.

1177
01:25:48.119 --> 01:25:54.000
Most of the volunteer staff that keeps
the library and the media exchange open and

1178
01:25:54.159 --> 01:25:56.560
staffs are events. So yeah,
it's been a great privilege. You know,

1179
01:25:56.600 --> 01:25:59.199
a lot of the books we've got
in a kind of roundabout way through

1180
01:25:59.399 --> 01:26:02.920
connection that Daniel Sheen gave to us. About two thousand and three, I

1181
01:26:02.920 --> 01:26:10.680
took an exciting trip down to twenty
nine Palms, California and acquired the research

1182
01:26:10.720 --> 01:26:15.079
library at the late UFO researcher Gabriel
Green, who some of your listeners might

1183
01:26:15.079 --> 01:26:18.199
remember from the nineteen fifties. It
was quite an active proponent and researcher and

1184
01:26:18.199 --> 01:26:23.199
spokesperson for the UFO field. Some
pois that was a really interesting and remains

1185
01:26:23.279 --> 01:26:28.079
it continues to be a really interesting
archive of mature we took over similar coming

1186
01:26:28.079 --> 01:26:30.640
back from one of the Lawflin conferences. I forget which year that was.

1187
01:26:30.680 --> 01:26:39.039
I was able to acquire William Cooper's
research library right after he of Behold a

1188
01:26:39.079 --> 01:26:41.760
Pale Horse, and that's an interesting
collection as well that we were able to

1189
01:26:41.760 --> 01:26:45.159
take over. So those are the
two largest I think off the top of

1190
01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:48.279
my head researchers libraries that we were
able to acquire. But then in my

1191
01:26:48.359 --> 01:26:51.640
own and traveling to these conferences and
people know that we collect the stuff,

1192
01:26:51.640 --> 01:26:55.880
we get donations from people around the
country. Actually, it's so fun to

1193
01:26:56.119 --> 01:27:00.960
come in in the mornings and sometimes
find a box handwritten address somebody that met

1194
01:27:00.960 --> 01:27:03.359
me at a conference or found our
website or borrowed books from us in the

1195
01:27:03.359 --> 01:27:06.119
past and feels that they want to
reciprocate, and you know, here comes

1196
01:27:06.119 --> 01:27:09.560
a fun box full of new material
that we get to go through. It's

1197
01:27:09.600 --> 01:27:14.279
it's an incredibly fun you know easter
ey contact sometimes called it, to discover

1198
01:27:14.359 --> 01:27:15.560
new materials, and boy, there's
so much stuff out there. And I

1199
01:27:15.560 --> 01:27:19.239
would encourage anybody that's you know,
new into this to just recognize there's just

1200
01:27:19.279 --> 01:27:25.359
a tremendous amount of material. It's
not it's not for lack of study materials

1201
01:27:25.359 --> 01:27:28.159
that people learn about this stuff.
There's just so much stuff out there,

1202
01:27:28.159 --> 01:27:30.079
and you know, it certainly goes
with that saying. I hope I mentioned

1203
01:27:30.079 --> 01:27:31.720
that well en up in a minute
ago wheat from chaff. There's a lot

1204
01:27:31.720 --> 01:27:35.600
of you know, sex experience.
Is that the right word information out there?

1205
01:27:35.640 --> 01:27:40.960
So discernment is the bottom line here. And I always remind myself,

1206
01:27:40.960 --> 01:27:42.880
you know, once you think you
got it all figured out, just remind

1207
01:27:42.880 --> 01:27:45.880
yourself that you likely don't. And
you need to keep open minded about it

1208
01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:49.520
as you continue your your inquiry into
these subjects, because it's a it's a

1209
01:27:49.600 --> 01:27:53.279
deep, deep well of information and
something else I'd like to say, and

1210
01:27:53.319 --> 01:27:55.600
I think are ours almost stuff.
This might be a good thing to close

1211
01:27:55.640 --> 01:28:00.000
with. Boy, you know,
never take away the mystery if in any

1212
01:28:00.039 --> 01:28:03.720
time that they are selling, you
know, tickets to go kick the saucer's

1213
01:28:03.760 --> 01:28:06.720
tires in every fifty one or something. I'd like to be first in line

1214
01:28:06.720 --> 01:28:10.880
to buy those tickets. Camping out
of our night perhaps, But in some

1215
01:28:10.920 --> 01:28:15.319
ways I don't necessarily want to have
that mystery taken away from it, you

1216
01:28:15.359 --> 01:28:19.119
know what I mean. I can
see that you're one of the first people

1217
01:28:19.159 --> 01:28:24.680
who have been brave enough I think
to admit that that I've talked to.

1218
01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:30.920
But you know, it's a very
honest opinion that, you know. Yeah,

1219
01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:35.800
although I am optimistic that it seems
that with ever great discovery, there's

1220
01:28:35.840 --> 01:28:43.279
another horde of questions that come avalanching
down on us. So the exciting thing

1221
01:28:43.319 --> 01:28:45.560
about discovery is I think it's never
ending, and the more discovery there is,

1222
01:28:45.600 --> 01:28:49.760
there's more to discover and right,
which is wonderful and you know,

1223
01:28:49.840 --> 01:28:55.119
funny enough, I'd love the term
metaphysical. So it's unfortunate that the baggage,

1224
01:28:55.159 --> 01:28:58.039
like you said, you know,
the whole idea beyond physics is great,

1225
01:28:58.079 --> 01:29:00.399
but it does have the baggage.
And I don't think I've told you.

1226
01:29:00.600 --> 01:29:04.279
I've boughten a couple of books,
least one or two online, I

1227
01:29:04.279 --> 01:29:10.439
think through abes, books that have
had the RVML stamp on them. Oh

1228
01:29:10.520 --> 01:29:15.000
really, yeah, so, which
is really funny. Yeah, So I've

1229
01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:17.359
gotten a couple of those. And
it's always tragic to me when I hear

1230
01:29:19.279 --> 01:29:24.319
people who don't like to crack books, because really, I don't think you

1231
01:29:24.359 --> 01:29:28.960
can get to the heart of this
phenomenon, especially because it's roots in the

1232
01:29:29.000 --> 01:29:32.800
fifties and sixties and all of that, and those amazing books that were printed

1233
01:29:32.840 --> 01:29:35.119
back then. I don't think you
can get to the root of a lot

1234
01:29:35.159 --> 01:29:43.960
of this because even in other metaphysical
or theosophical or paranormal work that was done

1235
01:29:44.000 --> 01:29:46.600
in the twenties or the thirties,
those are all in books. So if

1236
01:29:46.600 --> 01:29:50.319
you don't read Butch, you're missing
out on a lot, right. I'm

1237
01:29:50.359 --> 01:29:54.600
glad you put in a plug for
words on the page. You know,

1238
01:29:54.920 --> 01:29:58.319
Internet research is one thing, attending
conferences another. But for you've really got

1239
01:29:58.359 --> 01:30:00.439
to spend your time, you know, in the stuf ak, so to

1240
01:30:00.439 --> 01:30:04.279
speak, familiarizing yourself with all the
background like you said that exists there.

1241
01:30:04.319 --> 01:30:09.880
It's a deep, deep well,
like we both agree. Well, yep,

1242
01:30:09.960 --> 01:30:12.800
our time is up. I want
to thank you for all that you

1243
01:30:12.920 --> 01:30:17.279
have done, all that you will
do, all that you currently do on

1244
01:30:17.319 --> 01:30:21.239
all of this. I think it's
important. So I was very excited that

1245
01:30:21.319 --> 01:30:27.000
you agreed to come on the show
to highlight all of this because I think

1246
01:30:27.000 --> 01:30:30.800
you have a great perspective, you
have an insight, and you're an important

1247
01:30:30.800 --> 01:30:32.199
part of all of this. So
thank you so much for being on the

1248
01:30:32.239 --> 01:30:35.279
show. Oh, Alejandro, it's
my pleasure. I'm just a light of

1249
01:30:35.319 --> 01:30:38.960
that you invited me and I want
to just less time put in a plug

1250
01:30:39.000 --> 01:30:43.199
for Open Minds again. Openminds dot
Tv. Just really encourage people to consider

1251
01:30:43.319 --> 01:30:46.760
Mike plans to attend the twenty thirteen
conference. It's a tremendous experience that you

1252
01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:50.720
won't regret. And I'm sure you'll
be there yet again. Oh yeah,

1253
01:30:50.800 --> 01:30:54.880
look forward to it every year.
Great, well, thank you so much.

1254
01:30:55.880 --> 01:30:58.159
You're very welcome, Alejandro, and
thank you for the work that you're

1255
01:30:58.199 --> 01:31:01.279
doing and helping spread knowledge about these
important subjects. I really pass off to

1256
01:31:01.319 --> 01:31:09.920
your kudos. It's a great pleasure. So be sure and read your books,

1257
01:31:10.039 --> 01:31:14.119
people, because it's very important.
If you want the whole story,

1258
01:31:14.159 --> 01:31:15.880
you got to read books. I'm
sorry some of you are like, oh

1259
01:31:15.920 --> 01:31:20.800
man, I want to read a
book, but you know, you really

1260
01:31:20.800 --> 01:31:24.680
got in there, and so many
of you who already know this, you

1261
01:31:24.760 --> 01:31:27.479
really got to read those books.
There's so much great stuff out there,

1262
01:31:27.760 --> 01:31:31.079
and OURVML dot org is a place
you can go to see some of that.

1263
01:31:31.239 --> 01:31:35.560
So thank you to Jordan is an
absolutely great guy. Next year at

1264
01:31:35.560 --> 01:31:38.720
the Congress if you see him say
hi, I give him a hug.

1265
01:31:38.760 --> 01:31:43.000
He loves hugs because he's just a
really cool guy. Anyway, we are

1266
01:31:43.239 --> 01:31:45.199
out of time. Thank you so
much for joining us. Don't forget to

1267
01:31:45.239 --> 01:31:49.760
visit open Minds dot tv for your
latest UFO news and UFO Daily News where

1268
01:31:49.800 --> 01:31:54.000
I have some of the videos up
of the news coverage of the Congress.

1269
01:31:54.479 --> 01:31:58.359
And next week we'll be back with
Linc. It's high because it will be

1270
01:31:58.479 --> 01:32:04.079
the day before the fifteenth anniversary of
the Phoenix Lights. Talk to you soon, people,