1 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,960 Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin willis your host, and 2 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,240 we have a great show for you this evening. We have, first of 3 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,960 all, Alejandro Rojas is going to be joining us for some UFO updates. 4 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,000 Then we have Stephen Bassett and he's going to be talking about something he is 5 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:48,280 up to in Washington, d C. And we'll be we'll be talking all 6 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:54,560 about that. I have I have a special connection with Steve Bassett because, 7 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,560 um, you know, as you know for long time listeners, I have 8 00:00:58,759 --> 00:01:03,439 three hundred seven an some odd shows up and Stephen Bassett was show number one. 9 00:01:04,359 --> 00:01:08,200 I reached out to a number of people when I wanted to start this 10 00:01:08,239 --> 00:01:12,840 podcast, and no one paid attention to me, and Steven said, sure, 11 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:17,760 I'll be on your show, no problem. So I always I always 12 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:19,400 have it, Like I said, a special place in my heart for Steve 13 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:25,040 Bassett and he's welcome on my show anytime, and he'll be coming up right 14 00:01:25,719 --> 00:01:32,159 right after the news. We do have a blog as usual over at podcast 15 00:01:32,439 --> 00:01:36,079 UFO dot com. I'll tell you that in just a second, but you 16 00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:40,799 can also go over there if you would like to support the show, and 17 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,640 you know, do check out the weekly blogs. That we have posted there 18 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,719 by Charles Lear. He does a great job. And this one was one 19 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,359 I had actually never heard of before. It's called the zen Fredick Ufo case 20 00:01:53,079 --> 00:01:59,400 in Italy, and so it's really interesting. And check that out, and 21 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,599 I think that might be it. I want to thank Peggy that helps me. 22 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:07,520 Over at the Facebook page, check that out. We have new stories 23 00:02:07,599 --> 00:02:12,439 up there every single day, not always on the weekend, but sometimes, 24 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,639 and so check that out over there. I guess that's enough for me. 25 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:22,319 I'll hundre, how are you? I'm doing well. I am actually have 26 00:02:22,439 --> 00:02:24,879 my good mic set up, so I'm not doing you know, just the 27 00:02:25,599 --> 00:02:34,120 laptop camera and the Apple ear sets anymore. So hopefully yes, the sound 28 00:02:34,159 --> 00:02:37,840 and video is better for you all. Yeah, and you are? Are 29 00:02:37,879 --> 00:02:44,000 you in our new location? I am Yeah. That's all you're gonna say 30 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:50,000 about that. That's all I gotta say about It's west of um here in 31 00:02:50,159 --> 00:02:55,840 Maine. That's that's all we'll say. In an undisclosed location. Undisclosed location, 32 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,759 you can see that from the background of time obviously got to be a 33 00:03:00,759 --> 00:03:05,159 spacecraft of some sort. I think it is. Yeah, we'll start that 34 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,960 conspiracy. So, I mean, I'm supposed to be here to talk about 35 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:13,800 UFO news, right, Yeah, but I don't really have much. You 36 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,360 know. What's kind of funny is most of the news out there is about 37 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:23,199 what we've talked about the last few weeks, the Army's project with to the 38 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:34,919 Stars and then also the Navy talk confirming that those videos where we're real something 39 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,159 I feel they already told us really back in December twenty seventeen with New York 40 00:03:38,199 --> 00:03:44,319 Times, but that's still making some headlines. So those are the big headlines 41 00:03:44,439 --> 00:03:49,439 kind of out there, which is interesting that, you know, even right 42 00:03:49,479 --> 00:03:53,159 now, if you google UFO news, that's mostly what you're gonna find. 43 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:59,439 One cool peace though, is that Army Times dot Com also did an article 44 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,199 on this, so that's pretty interesting too. So yeah, just to catch 45 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,360 people up, I'm sure people have already heard, you know, to the 46 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:11,599 start, it's going to work with the Army of all of all people with 47 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,520 that, you know, examining some of these uh, what are being labeled 48 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,360 meta materials, there's probably a better term I think that people could use. 49 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:26,800 Really, they're kind of maybe UAP material might be accurate because they're material that 50 00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:32,680 you know, allegedly comes from unidentified aerial phenomena. So doesn't that seem right? 51 00:04:32,759 --> 00:04:36,439 UAP material seems like it would be better than meta material, which is 52 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:42,399 so vague a term. Well, yeah, I think now was this what 53 00:04:42,639 --> 00:04:47,120 is considered arts parts? Is that do we know the origin of these these 54 00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:53,040 materials? We don't know the origins of all the materials. You know, 55 00:04:53,120 --> 00:05:00,120 who did a great Richard Dolan did an analysis of what materials they probably are 56 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,680 at the International UFO Congress. So you could get that DVD at Ufocongress dot 57 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,160 com and it'll be posted on the videos on demand soon. But yeah, 58 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,639 Richard Doling did a great talk on that. But yeah, arts Parts is 59 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,959 one of those pieces, but just one of many, or of several supposedly, 60 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:23,399 and we don't know the origins of all of them. So hopefully we'll 61 00:05:23,439 --> 00:05:27,399 find that out in time and that will be really interesting. You know, 62 00:05:27,639 --> 00:05:30,120 some people are a little concerned if you're partnering up with the army, you 63 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:35,800 know, could it be potentially that we won't be getting information? And from 64 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:41,920 what I understand that, you know, the intentions are to get the information 65 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,240 out to people as soon as they can, but the Army does have if 66 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,680 they're participating in the project, then they have say as to win that will 67 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:55,120 come out, and that's got some people concerned, no doubt, But well, 68 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,360 I think it's you know, it's a two way street with them, 69 00:05:57,439 --> 00:06:00,639 because when I read through the agreement, you know, it basically said that 70 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:09,040 both sides have to get to give a conceits a written permission to share anything 71 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,639 and within thirty days of sharing, so both sides have to agree, right, 72 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,480 right, So, which is going to be the nature of these sort 73 00:06:17,519 --> 00:06:21,240 of things even if it wasn't the army and if it was another organization, 74 00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:27,639 Let's say, you know, it was Ball Aerospace or somebody like that, 75 00:06:27,879 --> 00:06:32,920 or or you know, Lockheed or something and probably be similar. So so 76 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:38,639 I think that's something to consider. And I think, you know, what 77 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:43,319 I would say is it's interesting to watch all of this because what we're seeing 78 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,480 is kind of the mainstreaming of the topic. You know, if which is 79 00:06:48,519 --> 00:06:51,519 extraordinary to be able to see this, I feel, you know, having 80 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:56,720 been in this, and I don't know how you feel, but you know, 81 00:06:56,759 --> 00:07:01,639 we're seeing what would happen when main stream institutions start to kind of tackle 82 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,959 this issue and how would they do it? And you know, many of 83 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:11,759 us have been discussing these sort of things for a while, what would happen, 84 00:07:11,839 --> 00:07:15,360 how would this work? And some of those people that have already been 85 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:21,439 in this space, such as people who are scientists or people who are in 86 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,519 the government, people like John Alexander, let's say, and Nick Pope, 87 00:07:25,519 --> 00:07:30,839 who have experience with some of this sort of thing having worked in the government 88 00:07:30,879 --> 00:07:36,959 and paranormal studies. So I think that's essentially what we're seeing is how the 89 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,000 mainstream handles it. And it's kind of interesting that so far, first we've 90 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:47,600 seen the military becoming so open about all of this and willing to participate. 91 00:07:48,279 --> 00:07:54,040 And you know, I think some might feel it's them getting in front of 92 00:07:54,079 --> 00:07:58,879 things, which I think is always wise of any organization. You know, 93 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,560 when you foresee that you're going to be challenged with questions or information, it's 94 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:09,160 best to be proactive and to get involved so that you can you know, 95 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,240 be seen in a positive, proactive light. And so we've seen that from 96 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:18,160 the Navy and from now the Army. As far as results and how will 97 00:08:18,199 --> 00:08:22,199 that work, we'll have to see will it become another kind of Project blue 98 00:08:22,199 --> 00:08:28,079 Book where which had major pr problems. You know, at the beginning, 99 00:08:28,079 --> 00:08:31,480 they were pretty open and it was a very positive sort of project. And 100 00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:37,799 what happened both the first conclusion they came to was it could be aliens. 101 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:41,320 You know, leadership didn't like that, and things then turned did a total 102 00:08:41,399 --> 00:08:46,480 one eighty and they debunked, and for the next couple of years they got 103 00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:48,759 to be seen as a waste of time. As you know, if you 104 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,559 have a sighting, don't go to Project blue Book. And Rupel, who 105 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,440 started Project blue Book even said, you know, he talked to scientists and 106 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,440 that was their sentiment that you're just going to debunk. You don't really have 107 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:05,159 an interest in this topic, because they so wanted to debunk everything after that 108 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,759 first Project signed report. And so that was a challenge of Rupelt's to try 109 00:09:09,759 --> 00:09:15,639 to reboot then and to create a public, you know, facing organization with 110 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,960 credibility. But that was difficult to do. When he talked about nineteen fifty 111 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:24,960 two and Washington, DC and you know, UFOs flying over and Bluebook even 112 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:31,919 able to essentially take over the control tower during one of these incidents. What 113 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:37,320 happened, well, the Army sent out you know, General Stamford who gave 114 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,480 us an answer, a prosaic answer that it was just weather and versions and 115 00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:46,679 radars, but that was BS as Rupelt says, they didn't even check with 116 00:09:46,799 --> 00:09:50,480 us as to what our investigation was because we had already ruled that out. 117 00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:54,879 They weren't interested in, you know, the actual facts of the investigation. 118 00:09:54,279 --> 00:09:58,039 They were just interested in telling the public something. Now. In that same 119 00:09:58,159 --> 00:10:03,480 press conference, so you know, General Sanford said that they do receive incredible 120 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:09,200 sightings from from you know, incredible resources forget how he said it, but 121 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,200 essentially very credible people. So I think that's something to look at going forward. 122 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,120 How is the Army going to handle it now? I don't believe that 123 00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:20,639 to the Stars personally, from my conversations with people and to the Stars, 124 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:26,000 that they would want to be a Heinich, you know, want to be 125 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:31,000 someone to explain away cases for the Army. I think they're genuinely interested, 126 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,240 and certainly we've heard from Tom that he's very convinced that, you know, 127 00:10:35,279 --> 00:10:39,039 some of these things come from elsewhere. So we'll see what happens. I 128 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,360 think it's going to be a tricky relationship between the Army and to the Stars, 129 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,679 and it'll be a tricky relationship between the public and both of those entities. 130 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,360 As well as they kind of figure out, you know, how to 131 00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:56,639 maneuver around all of this, so it ought to be interesting. And then 132 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,799 yeah, yeah, we haven't really heard from the sign sientific community very much. 133 00:11:01,879 --> 00:11:05,840 We've heard from some of the talking heads, Neil de grass Tyson, 134 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,080 Michio Kaku, Bill Knight, the science guy, says shaw Stack, and 135 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:15,159 of course you had him on the show the most recent interview and the latter 136 00:11:15,759 --> 00:11:20,360 being more skeptical, whereas Neil de Grasse Tyson and especially mitchio Kaku being much 137 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:26,080 more positive about the whole idea of investigating all of this stuff. So I 138 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,480 think that's interesting too. That just shows that at least the talking heads for 139 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,159 science out there are on the fence still but considering it, which is a 140 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:39,159 lot more than what we've seen in the past where they really haven't considered it 141 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,279 anymore. And I think that they're going to have more and more pressure, 142 00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:46,960 just like the pressure you put on shaw Stack. He's got to confront this 143 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,399 issue in a more educated manner than he has, and you pointed that out, 144 00:11:52,279 --> 00:11:54,600 and I think Bill Knight is going to have to do the same because 145 00:11:54,639 --> 00:12:01,000 they will face challenges and thus far, in my humble opinion. Bill Knight 146 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:07,799 and Shostak have not demonstrated that they're educated on the issue, and their conclusions 147 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:13,919 have been based off of the poorer and small amounts of information they have, 148 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,799 and they seem to kind of angry about it. Well, anyway they do, 149 00:12:16,879 --> 00:12:20,399 they're forced into the position. I think Shostak for years has tried to 150 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,399 avoid it because of course they had a real struggle. They were into the 151 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,919 stars position, you know, twenty thirty years ago, when they were fighting 152 00:12:28,919 --> 00:12:33,679 for legitimacy, when people thought what SETI was doing with silly looking for aliens. 153 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,000 Things have changed so much for them, and now you know, even 154 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:43,679 NASA arguably is largely a SETI organization, you know, looking for extraterrestrial life 155 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:48,759 out there, maybe not intelligence yet, but they're looking for microbes and to 156 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,840 such and that's a major part of their program. So things have changed quite 157 00:12:52,879 --> 00:12:56,879 a bit. And how did they change for SETI? SETI had to be 158 00:12:56,039 --> 00:13:01,720 hyper sensitive about being seen as scientific, so you can see how they would 159 00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:05,919 be a little more skittish to attaching themselves to something that may seem more fringe, 160 00:13:07,799 --> 00:13:11,360 and so they're being careful about it, but they can't ignore it, 161 00:13:11,399 --> 00:13:15,559 and they can't be I think careful to the point where they are being, 162 00:13:15,879 --> 00:13:20,919 um, you know, obviously unscientific about things, and really, in my 163 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,480 humble opinion, I think Seth should educate himself on the matter, which he 164 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,600 probably doesn't want to be forced into doing. But at some point he's going 165 00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:31,320 to have to give some more educated answers, I think, and that'll be 166 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,600 fun to see them challenged and to see this all evolve. That's right. 167 00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:39,279 Well, thank you. We went a little bit over time and I gotta 168 00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:41,639 get thanks. Sorry step In here, Thanks so much, Ella, and 169 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:45,240 I'll talk to you next week. Thank you. All right, I have 170 00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:50,320 a good one. All right, everyone. My next My next guest Paradigm 171 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:58,480 Research Group is Stephen Bassett. And Stephen welcome to the show. Yeah, 172 00:13:58,519 --> 00:14:03,600 Martin, I heard the intro you had with Alejandro and your viewers should know 173 00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:09,960 that he's in witness protection Okay, good to know that's where he is. 174 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,399 He's in witness protection program, has been for some time. Welcome to the 175 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:18,120 show. And you know I have said I'd say that on the show almost 176 00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:22,960 every week now because I actually can see through analytics and things like that, 177 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,919 I have new people listening to the show all the time, someone may not 178 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,600 know who you are quickly in the nutshell. Can you go over that and 179 00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:33,360 let's tell us what you're up to. Something new. So let's first of 180 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:39,399 all, just introduce yourself to the new listener, if you would. Yeah. 181 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,720 I'm the executive director of Paradigm Research Group, which is formed in ninety 182 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:50,279 six to pursue the political resolution, not the scientific revolution resolution, but the 183 00:14:50,279 --> 00:14:56,639 political resolution of the ex addressial issue. I did this because I'd come to 184 00:14:56,919 --> 00:15:01,840 conclude that the problem was not science. Even by ninety six, there was 185 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,120 more than enough science to prove the extratrastial president. So what was the problem. 186 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,679 Well, the problem was there was a political decision part of the government 187 00:15:11,279 --> 00:15:15,399 going all the way back to late forties, early nineteen fifties, that this 188 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,120 issue would be suppressed, embargoed, as I like to call it. I 189 00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:26,600 denied, undermined misinformation, disinformation for national security reasons. It's a legal national 190 00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:31,360 security policy. So essentially, the most profound information probably in the history of 191 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:37,080 the human race was embargoed by our government and its allies, and it had 192 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,519 a lot of allies back in nineteen nineteen fifties. Some of the more authoritarian 193 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:46,519 countries like Soviet Union, Communist China went the same way, perhaps for a 194 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:50,879 different reasons. So what do you do Pile science on top of science on 195 00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:54,600 top of the science, and have the government go, we don't know what 196 00:15:54,639 --> 00:15:58,840 you're talking about. That's not how I roll. So I got involved in 197 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:07,480 the politics to this and have been a political activists lobby and I'm going to 198 00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:11,120 continue to do that and until we get the announcement, we get the formal 199 00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:15,879 confirmation from the government. Now, when you had your your big huge event 200 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:21,639 there that kind of pushed things forward, you're still getting ripples from that. 201 00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:26,480 I mean, things still happening from that. And that was what four years 202 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,279 ago, now three years ago. Now you had to actually been a lot 203 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,879 this happen. Twenty and thirteen was a citizen hearing on disclosure, and then 204 00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:37,720 as the plan follow up to that, I went to Wars, came back 205 00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:47,000 to Washington two thousand and fourteen, just November delivered We delivered a full thirty 206 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,919 hour set of DVDs to every member of Congress just let them know that that 207 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,519 had happened. And I began to develop a story for the political campaign of 208 00:16:57,559 --> 00:17:03,000 two thousand and Sixteeneen sixteen, which happened to involve a woman by the name 209 00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:08,799 of Senator Hillary Clinton, who was the leading candidate and the leading the likely 210 00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:15,039 person to be president, and worked that story into the mainstream media until it 211 00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:22,839 caught fire and generating four hundred plus articles about the connection between her John Podesta, 212 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,799 and her husband to the et issue, going all the way back to 213 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,759 the early nineteen nineties. Our mid nineteen nine. Yeah, early nineteen nine. 214 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:37,920 But the nature of media right now still that they'll only go so far. 215 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:42,039 So all four hundred articles were written. The debate moderators refused to touch 216 00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:45,920 the issue, and she was able to avoid having to confront it more than 217 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,839 she had. And we had forced them to speak to the issue a number 218 00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:55,200 of times, about eleven or twelve total, and she was going to just 219 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,880 get to the White House. I believe she intended to disclose not shortly shortly 220 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:03,119 into her first term. Uh and a lot of other people did as well. 221 00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:10,519 But that didn't happen, So things changed. I went to Europe for 222 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,119 most of two thousand and seventeen, came back early twenty and eighteen. I 223 00:18:15,279 --> 00:18:23,640 went and was basing. But then in June of this year, I became 224 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,079 aware that the two to the Stars Academy, which I've been following very closely 225 00:18:27,079 --> 00:18:36,359 and supporting from the day it was launched. UH, members of Congress that 226 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,400 a pilot briefing of the President had taken place, and I knew at that 227 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,119 point I had to get back to Washington, d C. Wasn't going to 228 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:47,480 be easy either, so I set about trying to raise some money and make 229 00:18:47,519 --> 00:18:51,519 the necessary arrangements would allow me to get back here and not just getting back 230 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,319 to stay, which I intend to do until disclosure come, but also to 231 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:00,519 get an office. And the office one it was in the National Press Building. 232 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:06,319 It's not easy to get in there, and I spent some time I 233 00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:10,319 was working it and an opportunity came about and I was able to secure an 234 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,519 office. That office is now open, it's done, it's completed, but 235 00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:23,160 it's an office studio. Because the plan is to launch soon a video podcast 236 00:19:23,559 --> 00:19:30,559 I think most uh the National Press Building out of Washington, DC, and 237 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,559 that is about two blocks from the White House. So it would be the 238 00:19:36,599 --> 00:19:41,839 first streaming broadcast of any kind formerly coming out of Washington, DC on all 239 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:48,000 matters extra political. So that's that is the plan. And UH, it's 240 00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:52,240 bold, it's not as bold as what the TTSA is doing. I mean, 241 00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:56,599 they're they're they're way out in front. They got they got a h 242 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:06,079 a battle cruiser out there. But it has possibilities. My my primary goal 243 00:20:06,279 --> 00:20:10,160 is to use the special location of the podcast to use the fact that a 244 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,759 member of the club, which is housed in net in the penthales of that 245 00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:23,640 building, to meet, greet and convince some mainstream people to to to speak 246 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:30,279 about this issue an interview and highly intelligent safe space that would have never done 247 00:20:30,319 --> 00:20:34,359 that before. It's not doing live stuff when on this issue for somebody, 248 00:20:34,559 --> 00:20:44,400 it's got a high level position in the politics or journalism or academic concern so, 249 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,839 but this will be a TAPS product podcast and the beauty of that is 250 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,440 that if the person is not comfortable with how the interview go and it can't 251 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,680 be fixed, then it just doesn't get aired. I won't put it up. 252 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,119 So I'm not looking to grill people. I'm not looking investigative journalists. 253 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:06,160 I'm looking to be a conduit or a bridge between the developing mainstream world interests 254 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,240 in this issue and the general public. Because I am I am a political 255 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,240 activist and a populist, and that's Another reason why I got back to DC 256 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,799 is that once I knew that the Two the Stars Academy was in fact lobbying 257 00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:22,839 Congress, which is what they're doing. You don't have to be registered to 258 00:21:22,839 --> 00:21:27,319 do that as long as you're not. Well, maybe it this way, 259 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,200 it's complicated, but the point is they were. They were obviously on the 260 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:34,920 hill talking to members about their issues and what have you, and that's fine, 261 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:42,240 but sir to me that those issues were those of the military intelligence complex 262 00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:48,039 from which they came, which is appropriate. The military intellist's complex has an 263 00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:52,920 array of concerns and issues where there's interest with respect to the disclosure process, 264 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,720 predisclosure disclosure event itself in the post disclosure world, so that they would be 265 00:21:56,799 --> 00:22:00,680 wanting to talk to members of Congress about it makes total sense. Of course, 266 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,039 I know where that's going. Eventually, it's going to hearings when the 267 00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:07,599 political hurricane ends here at DC. But that's not me. I don't represent. 268 00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:15,559 I represent only the American people. I try to represent their interests charges 269 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:21,640 complex interests because that obviously is well represented right now, and I as AUNTIL 270 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,440 recently it was still the only registered lobbyists on the issue, which I did 271 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,839 in order to appeal to the media because they check these things. But the 272 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:33,640 co host for this coming podcast, which is called The Disclosure Wire, will 273 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:40,400 be Theresa Tindall, who is the currently state director of move On Maryland, 274 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:47,319 among other things, and she's going to provide a powerful networking component. She's 275 00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:49,920 also registered as a lobbyist, and now there's two registered federal lobbyists. Finally, 276 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,839 only took twenty three years to get the second one, and it was 277 00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:57,359 the pay. The pay is just so good people are afraid of it. 278 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,400 For everything's gonna make a lot of money, it's going to ruin your life 279 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:06,440 whatever. So that gives you a sense of what's happened on my world, 280 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,440 starting with the business and hearing hunt disclosure, going through the twenty sixteen election, 281 00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:18,640 a hiatus in Europe where I did go to Moscow and get into an 282 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,119 interview that had never been done before. But nevertheless, finally I've got to 283 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,440 get back to DC, and as crazy as it is in this town right 284 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:32,880 now, I gotta be oh, well, Steve, let us know we 285 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,440 are actually out of time. We have to go under break and so that'll 286 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,720 be it for us. But can you tell us where we can actually get 287 00:23:40,759 --> 00:23:42,960 to this and is it on your website? Well, if you go to 288 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,039 Paradigm, it isn't up yet. You go to Paradigm Research Group the main 289 00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:52,400 website, there's a link right there to the indie go go funding campaign we 290 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,400 wanted to. We set a goal of ten thousand. We reached that about 291 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,759 two days ago. We're going to keep it up and develop some additional funding. 292 00:23:59,799 --> 00:24:03,680 And the information about the podcast is extensively right there in the iny Gogo 293 00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:07,480 campaign linked from Paradigm resarcroup dot org. Excellent, excellent, Well, thank 294 00:24:07,519 --> 00:24:11,440 you so much, and I wish you great luck with that. I will 295 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,880 be checking it out for sure. All right, you take care, bye 296 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:18,599 bye. Now, all right, everyone hanging there. We have to go 297 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:23,880 to a break and we'll be right back right after these messages. All right, 298 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,200 we are back. We have our guests, Jennifer Stein and Peter Robbins. 299 00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:32,960 Both have been on the show. Well, Peter a number of times, 300 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:37,240 Jennifer three or four times, I think altogether. But welcome to the 301 00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:44,359 show. You too. Thank you, Martin. Yes, and I really 302 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,240 enjoy hanging out with both both of you. I saw Jennifer out in Phoenix 303 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,119 and Peter. You and I've run into each other a number of times over 304 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:57,200 the years. It's always a lot of fun. And I consider you both 305 00:24:57,279 --> 00:25:03,799 really good people and I'm really glad that you both work together. And if 306 00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:06,079 you look, if you're on YouTube now and you look in the background, 307 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,559 Jennifer, what are those awards behind you? Well, it's my office and 308 00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:15,640 those are some Ebby awards. These guys are kind of fun. I think 309 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,680 I can reach one. Oh can I? Yeah? Just a second, 310 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,039 Oh, this ought to be interesting. These are these funky looking guys, 311 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:30,519 you know, they're they're the little oh yes characters that Open Minds gives out 312 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,440 Oh yes, and they are a gray alien and it's holding a video camera 313 00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:42,839 and it's got a little reel under its arm. So I've been the lucky 314 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:48,720 winner of four of their awards, and the others are some film festivals Orlando 315 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,599 and you know, just some other awards in the UFO community. It's nice 316 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,079 to have that this What do you do with them? You stick them in 317 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,160 your office. So well, I think you deserve those awards and you do 318 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,519 a really nice job. You know. One of the things where we are 319 00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:10,240 going to be talking about Forest Stell, but just also other topics as well 320 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,400 for those people that were writing me saying that they don't want to hear about 321 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,880 Forestell, We'll talk about other things as well. But how did you, 322 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,319 Jennifer, how did you get interested in this topic? I know, I 323 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,119 believe I heard you talk one time. You did, I think up in 324 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,480 Maine. That was a long time ago conference. I think that's when I 325 00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:32,000 first met you, Mark, that's right. Yeah, Well, you know, 326 00:26:32,079 --> 00:26:36,759 I had a sighting, a personal sighting. I've had more than one 327 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,160 now in my life, but the first one was when I was nineteen, 328 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,839 and it was a significant sighting, like eighty ninety feet long, five six 329 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,400 feet high, a rectangle of white light, which made no sense to me. 330 00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:53,279 At that point in my life. I wasn't really following the UFO topic. 331 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,839 It was nineteen seventy five and I was nineteen years old, and it 332 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:03,200 occurred right outside my bedroom window where I lived in near Landsdale, Pennsylvania, 333 00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:07,400 and it kind of stayed in my gray box. I was journaling, and 334 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,440 I had written it down, but I didn't know how to understand it, 335 00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:15,519 and it stayed in my gray box for about almost twenty five years until I 336 00:27:15,599 --> 00:27:19,559 had the luck of encountering someone who was at my house at that time and 337 00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:23,920 had the same experience I had. And once we kind of compared notes, 338 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,200 which we did it independently, I told him, go write your stuff down. 339 00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:32,039 I don't want you messing with my memory. I have my memory, 340 00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:36,039 but I don't know what you saw. And once I looked at his drawings 341 00:27:36,039 --> 00:27:38,640 and diagrams and his story he wrote out, I realized, okay, that 342 00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:41,960 was real. And that was when I was about forty five. So that's 343 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,880 when I kind of just profoundly decided, Okay, you know, either I'm 344 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:51,400 going to allow this to inform myself. I'm going to start to educate myself. 345 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,519 I'm going to start to go to conferences, read books and whatnot. 346 00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:00,039 And shortly after that, I met Peter Robbins at the Roger move On conference 347 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:07,720 and that's kind of how I but I don't know if we lost you. 348 00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:15,279 Peter, you there, I am, and you just lose me? Did 349 00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:18,839 you lose me? Yeah, you're froze. I jumped for a second. 350 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,920 Okay, So Ruben Udiarte, who was the state director of mouf On, 351 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:30,160 encouraged me to start an active mouf On group in Pennsylvania because there wasn't one, 352 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,119 so I did in two thousand and I've been had the pleasure of bringing 353 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,759 in speakers and you know, Martin, by interviewing people and going to conferences 354 00:28:38,799 --> 00:28:42,440 and reading books, you learn a tremendous amount and my life has never been 355 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,839 the same. I never looked back. I've been grateful for the wonderful people 356 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,799 like Peter that I've just come to admire, and they are mentors to me. 357 00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:56,839 Stanton Friedman was a huge mentor to me, and I just continue to 358 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:03,000 learn and challenge myself. And it's very humbling because this is not an easy 359 00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:07,759 field and not an easy topic to wrap your brain around. Yeah, oh, 360 00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:11,480 I totally agree with that, and I also agree with what you just 361 00:29:11,599 --> 00:29:17,319 said that it's this whole topic has kind of enriched my life. I mean, 362 00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:21,440 it's it's interesting and you meet some wonderful people. I mean, really 363 00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:26,400 enjoying myself, you know, hanging out with some people that we share at 364 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,920 least a curiosity about what's going on. Maybe we'll never find out exactly what 365 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,839 it is, but it's still fun. Your turn, Peter, we want 366 00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:40,640 to find out. I know you actually had and maybe you've told this story 367 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:41,519 a number of times on the site, but again, we do have a 368 00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:47,119 lot of new people. You had that amazing sighting that you shared with your 369 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:53,559 sister with those silver disks in New York, right, And indeed, my 370 00:29:53,640 --> 00:30:00,920 sister Helen and I had a very clear daylight sighting as kids in the village 371 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:07,160 that we grew up in about thirty miles east of Manhattan. It was undeniable. 372 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,480 It was overwhelming to me. It was something I was emotionally and informationally 373 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:18,000 completely unprepared to deal with at that point in my life. What we observed, 374 00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:22,079 coming in at a high rate of speed and stopping over the neighbor's house 375 00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:30,920 were six silvery white disc shaped objects, essentially ellipses like holding a dinner plate 376 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:37,680 at an angle in a very precise military v as in Victor type formation, 377 00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:42,200 and they just hung there for an internally long period of time, close enough 378 00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:48,640 that we could see they were obviously metallic, not shiny like stainless steel, 379 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,920 more like you know, non reflective aluminum or something, and that we could 380 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,319 make out regular detailing around the edge of each which, in comparing notes many 381 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:06,000 years later, we both could only draw on how windows looked on an a 382 00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:11,720 commercial aircraft at an appreciable distance. But I was overwhelmed by it, and 383 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,200 I refused to speak with my sister about it, who never forgot it, 384 00:31:17,759 --> 00:31:22,799 and made myself forget it. It became my repressed memory of childhood, although 385 00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:26,480 I occasionally joke with people that if I have other oppressed memories from childhood, 386 00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:32,559 I don't remember them. But it took more than fourteen years for that memory 387 00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:36,880 to re emerge, and when it did, it did like a freight train 388 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:45,400 and come through artwork. More partially, it was several contributing factors. I 389 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:51,119 think, the most important one being that my mind was ready to deal with 390 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:56,880 this subject. But the triggers were going through a number of drawings that I 391 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:02,960 had recently been given by my grandmother that she had saved from my childhood at 392 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,839 a time when most relatives adults did not save kids drawings. My theory is 393 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,880 because it was before they invented refrigerator magnets. Be that as it may, 394 00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:20,160 none of the drawings related to the subject, but several of the drawings were 395 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,200 done at about that time in my life. That combined with the fact that 396 00:32:23,319 --> 00:32:30,400 I was lost quite a bit of sleep. It had just been the Chinese 397 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:36,039 New Year, and I lived in Chinatown and back in those days, the 398 00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:38,920 police looked the other way with fireworks, and you know, you were essentially 399 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:45,480 in a zone that, for seventy two hours or so smelt like cordite, 400 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:52,519 and the noise never stopped. And I had taken a human potential workshop fairly 401 00:32:52,880 --> 00:33:00,319 recently before that, which essentially gave me more things to think about. But 402 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,240 it all came together in the course of about fifteen minutes or so, and 403 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:09,559 it absolutely immobilized me. I was shocked in that I knew how real it 404 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,279 was. I thought I must be going crazy, because how could anybody forget 405 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:22,119 something so profoundly impacting, certainly the most significant moment of my childhood. I 406 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:28,599 now understand that the human mind can certainly do an extraordinary job repressing things. 407 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,440 But I waited until I had kind of calmed down, had a cup of 408 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,279 teeth, thought things out before calling my sister, who lived a mile or 409 00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:39,319 so north of me and East Village, mostly as a poet at the time, 410 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:47,599 and had enough forethought to not tell her what I remembered, because I 411 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,319 knew if I did, she'd either say yes or no, and I wouldn't 412 00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:54,559 know for sure. In my heart, very much the same spirit as Jennifer 413 00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:02,839 having that experiencer right down and do his drawings before they compared notes. And 414 00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:09,159 I chose to set the scene and described the time of year, about how 415 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,519 old we were, where we were standing in front of the house, what 416 00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:15,840 the weather was like, and she cut me off mid sentence, Martin, 417 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:22,559 and then proceeded to tell me what I had remembered, with one slight variation 418 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,679 the number of craft, which we worked out very quickly the next day, 419 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,920 but more to the point that she said there was more, and then went 420 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:38,280 on to describe what now sometimes even word for word, is an archetypical series 421 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:46,079 of fragmented memories that many many people who have had the UFO abductions experience share. 422 00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:51,840 This was not only new to me, but it was not part of 423 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:58,599 the culture except for Interrupted Journey, the very fine book about Betty and Barney 424 00:34:58,679 --> 00:35:05,519 Hill's experience, which happened ten years before that I know actually had happened the 425 00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:09,679 year that we had had our siding. I was clueless and at the same 426 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:16,840 time completely shocked by my sister's memories of flying through the air, of walking 427 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:22,760 through a curved metal hallway, of being on the table. The term gray 428 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,360 who was not in the culture for some years after that. So she described 429 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,519 the beings as best as she could from her twelve year old memory. And 430 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,920 you know, people use the phrase my life change overnight, mind change in 431 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:43,719 about ten minutes and ultimately served to derail the career that I had long for 432 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:49,840 aim for was beginning to make a reality, namely being a serious painter in 433 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,960 New York City, because something more important had come up and I resented it 434 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:59,880 tremendously. I continued to teach painting to paint, but the heart had gone 435 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:04,119 out of it, and after a number of years I just began to devote 436 00:36:04,119 --> 00:36:08,719 myself full time to UFO studies. Hmm, thank you for all that. 437 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,599 That's uh, that's really fascinating. And I have to tell you. You 438 00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:17,599 know, you've told me this story on my show, which was about, 439 00:36:19,039 --> 00:36:21,920 oh, I don't know how many shows, and it was just a few 440 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,960 shows in when we met. We met fairly early on when I was started 441 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,760 my show. And the reason I'm bringing that up, your your story is 442 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:37,039 exactly the same, nothing has changed at all, and which is always a 443 00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:42,000 very good sign. I'll work on it, Megan, I had some details 444 00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:47,159 next time. That's good. Yeah, now you'd be normal. So forrest 445 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:52,480 All. Let's talk about him. What whose brain child was this to to 446 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:58,480 do this film about him? And I understand a lot of I didn't get 447 00:36:58,519 --> 00:37:02,159 a chance to Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to see it, but I 448 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:07,360 understand a lot of it as footage of him that was dug up. But 449 00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:10,280 anyway, why don't you get into that a little bit? How that all 450 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,440 came about? Well, I wouldn't say a lot of it, but some 451 00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:21,280 of it. The life and death of James Vincent Forrestall, our first Secretary 452 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:27,320 of Defense, has fascinated me and at times obsessed me on and off for 453 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,280 more than thirty years. Who learned about him first in nineteen eighty seven, 454 00:37:34,039 --> 00:37:38,400 fairly significant year for me in the work, and a year that I had 455 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:45,760 decided to really commit myself to this work professionally. At the nineteen eighty seven 456 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:51,679 International Moufon Symposium held that year at American University in Washington, d C. 457 00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:58,519 Stan Friedman gave a presentation that in a way changed my life. I had 458 00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:01,760 first heard Stan speak ten years before, when I was very new in this 459 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:08,159 but had the privilege of working on being an editor on a paper that had 460 00:38:08,199 --> 00:38:15,360 been requested by the Secretary General of the UN on a possible triggering of nuclear 461 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:22,639 war by a misidentification of a truly anomalous UFO. And for that work I 462 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:28,840 earned the right to be in the General Assembly Hall during a series of meetings 463 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:36,559 of the Special Political Committee, which stand addressed along with doctor Alan J. 464 00:38:36,679 --> 00:38:44,280 Allen Heineck, Jacques Valet, Captain Coyne, Army captain who had been involved 465 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:51,199 in a very well documented helicopter semi abduction. And it was on the secret 466 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,800 life of a man who most of us knew in the work as a debunker, 467 00:38:57,599 --> 00:39:00,679 but a quiet academic one, the head of astronomy studies at Harvard, 468 00:39:02,039 --> 00:39:07,079 who went on to become the mentor of Philip Class, probably the best known 469 00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:10,719 UFO debunker. And it was called the Secret Life of Donald K. Menzel. 470 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,599 And in it, by dint of sheer scholarship and research and high intention 471 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:24,760 and extraordinarily well documented, Stan had gotten permission to go into the Harvard Archives 472 00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:31,920 and access all of the papers around Menzel, then in the National Archives, 473 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:37,960 and then became the only person to add a third which was a permission from 474 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:43,400 Menzel's widow to go over his personal papers. And what Stan established was Menzel 475 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,559 did indeed live a double life. He was the head academic on astronomy at 476 00:39:46,599 --> 00:39:52,840 Harvard and as such had great sway in the astronomy community, but he was 477 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:58,760 also a trusted member of our national security apparatus, which even his wife was 478 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,480 not aware of. Anyway, it was about the same time that the MJ 479 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:10,000 twelve briefing paper, the eighth page memorandum to Presidents Elect Eisenhower with the attached 480 00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:15,559 one page letter from September of forty seven from Truman to Forestall as the new 481 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:22,920 and first Secretary of Defense to begin his work on this particular topic. And 482 00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:31,360 I decided I was going to write a paper and do the research, modeling 483 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:37,719 it on stands, and I had it down to two or three of the 484 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,239 members of MJ twelve. The other one who was closest was doctor Van of 485 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:49,840 Var Bush, Roosevelt and Truman's science and technology advisor and one of the most 486 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:58,800 extraordinary Americans ever. He I won't even go into I could spend the whole 487 00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:02,559 show talking about Bush, no relation to the current crop. Anyway. I 488 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,360 spoke with my parents shortly after and had dinner with him, and sitting with 489 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,880 my mom and talking about the project, showing her this memorandum, telling her 490 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,000 who I had it down to, and she said, due Forestall. I 491 00:41:15,079 --> 00:41:19,480 said, well, that's pretty definitive. Why she said, Number one, 492 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,679 you have no idea how important he was to us during World War Two. 493 00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:30,599 His name was in the news as often as Harry Truman's was. He genuinely, 494 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:36,559 as an individual, was credited with helping us win the war as Assistant 495 00:41:36,599 --> 00:41:42,920 Secretary of Navy. Secretary of Navy had lived an absolute storybook life, almost 496 00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:50,360 ratio algerlike the arc on the narrative of his life. I compare in the 497 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:58,360 documentary to had Scott Fitzgerald needed or wanted a real character to base his most 498 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:05,440 famous literary character on J Gadsby James Forrestall could have been that person anyway. 499 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,960 She went on to say that when he committed suicide, which was the understanding 500 00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:16,000 at the time, donation went into deep mourning. She said, for me, 501 00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:20,639 it might have been the closest thing I had to your experience as a 502 00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:25,079 young person to President Kennedy's murder. And then she said, and you know, 503 00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:29,639 he was incredibly handsome. He was a very sharp dresser. He hung 504 00:42:29,639 --> 00:42:34,280 out with movie stars and writers, and I had a crush on him, 505 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,239 and I thought, well, that's that my mother had a crush on the 506 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,800 first Secretary of Defense, who I think may have been murdered. And I 507 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:47,119 got to work, but intermittently. I first spoke about the subject, not 508 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:53,400 until two thousand and four, then continued to write about him to do presentations, 509 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,920 which brings us up to about two years ago when I expressed to Jennifer 510 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:04,800 and a number of other clothes as colleagues that I was searching for some medium, 511 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,800 some way to reach a larger audience than the one that people like me 512 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:14,760 traditionally reach. Let's face it, if Jennifer and I speak at a conference, 513 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,920 the great majority of people that are there, we're preaching to the choir. 514 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,320 They're already interested, they're already involved. They either believe or are studying 515 00:43:23,119 --> 00:43:30,760 the subject. And how do you break through that in the world of conferences 516 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:37,199 and podcasts and the set universe of uphology. And I thought, I have 517 00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:43,159 a background in theater, and a fairly extensive one. I worked for years 518 00:43:43,159 --> 00:43:49,920 off Broadway in management and had the great thrill of working with Tony Award winners 519 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,360 and Academy Award winners, also assistant directing and I thought, perhaps there's a 520 00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:00,800 way without writing a play. Because I'm not a playwright, I can bring 521 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:07,320 this into a more a staged reading where I create a script. I have 522 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:13,960 images illustrating what I'm saying, but I'm not standing there with a clicker moving 523 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:20,519 the slides forward. I can concentrate on the script and tell this story and 524 00:44:20,679 --> 00:44:28,079 a very strictly chronological timeline, but not even mention the subject of UFOs until 525 00:44:28,119 --> 00:44:31,159 it came up. Chronologically. The story begins in the eighteen nineties, when 526 00:44:31,199 --> 00:44:37,360 Forrestall is born, and the first mention of the subject is nineteen forty seven, 527 00:44:37,679 --> 00:44:44,760 my hope being that by then serious listeners who might never go to a 528 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,039 UFO conference but would certainly go to a play, and might be interested in 529 00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:54,519 seeing a slightly dramatized just in terms of the words that I used and how 530 00:44:54,559 --> 00:45:00,079 I handled them, the images behind me treatment of a really interesting story about 531 00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:07,559 an American, a true hero, a patriot, a very decent man who 532 00:45:07,599 --> 00:45:10,559 had been written out of American history and who may in fact have been murdered. 533 00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:16,039 And then how do I present the case? Because I knew I would 534 00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:22,559 be speaking two attorneys as well as layman. Ultimately I work shopped it several 535 00:45:22,559 --> 00:45:27,719 times, first in a friend's apartment with about twenty people in New York City 536 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:35,760 about two years ago than before a terrific like Jennifer's mainline, mouf on a 537 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:42,719 group called the Rochester UFO meetup group run by the Indomitable Cookie string Fellow, 538 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,159 and that was a bit smoother. Ultimately, we brings us to last April 539 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:53,679 when I was scheduled to speak for Jennifer's group, and that early afternoon we 540 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:59,559 had some hours before the talk, and Jennifer said, you know, I 541 00:45:59,639 --> 00:46:07,960 have a home studio and with Bob Terrio, our third wheel who did oversaw 542 00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:13,320 the placement and the use of all the visual material was Jennifer's cameraman on the 543 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:20,440 Outstanding Award winning Travis The True Story of Travis Walton documentary that with the green 544 00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:25,280 screen, Jen said, I have a new piece of equipment, which is 545 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,599 a teleprompter. Have you ever used one? And I said no, never, 546 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:31,679 And she said, well, I've loaded your script into it. Let's 547 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:36,000 give it a go. And I had thought, if we were going to 548 00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:38,400 do it, I'd work as usual with a sheaf of papers that I'd half 549 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:44,320 memorized, coming and going from them, It's a very different experience staring into 550 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,599 this box for an interminable amount of time and doing my best to keep in 551 00:46:47,679 --> 00:46:52,000 contact, remembering that if it worked well, the illusion would be that I 552 00:46:52,039 --> 00:46:57,920 was speaking directly to viewers, the same way. You know we're used to 553 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,440 newsreaders. That allusion from that they're speaking to us, when you know we're 554 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,880 just part of a large audience and they're speaking into a mechanical device. Anyway, 555 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:12,079 when it was done, I turned it over technically to Bob and Jennifer. 556 00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:15,920 I had assembled most of the images, but I hadn't even thought about 557 00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:22,880 adding film images, you know, an independent researcher, I fund all my 558 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:28,079 own stuff, and having Jennifer as an overseeing producer I knew would allow me 559 00:47:28,119 --> 00:47:32,320 some latitude. She and Bob found some wonderful film footage which we use I 560 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:39,079 think very well and the ending impact. It's only been shown publicly twice, 561 00:47:40,119 --> 00:47:47,320 once as a finalist in the International UFO Congress Film Festival, or got a 562 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:52,639 very nice mention and up against if competition, and about a week a little 563 00:47:52,639 --> 00:48:00,679 over a week ago for a moufon group in Syracuse, New York, where 564 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:07,360 I speak sometimes as well, and we've now had more and more people taking 565 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:12,599 a look at it, who not only find it engaging but very moving. 566 00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:20,440 And within the next few weeks it will be available internationally online or to be 567 00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:24,239 ordered as a DVD, and that will be the true test. But it's 568 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:31,800 an important story. And before I relinquished the floor just to say, why 569 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:40,920 even bother with the story that's sixty years old, seventy years old, it's 570 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:46,719 old history. Well, it's a very important window into the early days of 571 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:53,440 the UFO cover up and a very different perception about the nature of secrecy. 572 00:48:53,599 --> 00:48:59,400 Who could keep it? Who could not? A very tragic twist, literally 573 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:08,000 a Greek agedy that his life story ends with um and I document everything if 574 00:49:08,039 --> 00:49:13,599 anybody is interested, you know, after seeing it. There's a long bibliography 575 00:49:13,639 --> 00:49:16,960 attached to thirty five or so print sources. And we're looking forward to get 576 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:23,039 going excellent. Okay, do you have one, Peter you can hold up 577 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,480 so we have to add back when we come back. We have to go 578 00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:30,480 into a break right now, so hang in everyone, we'll be right back 579 00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:35,400 right after these messages with We'll be back with Jennifer Stein and Peter Ruck. 580 00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:39,320 My guests to this evening are Jennifer Stein and Peter Robins. We're gonna be 581 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:45,480 talking about the James Forrestell case for a while, and then of course we'll 582 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:50,480 get into other things. Peter, Well, I'll ask you this, Jennifer, 583 00:49:51,199 --> 00:49:57,480 what was was your involvement in this any curiosity about Forrestell himself or was 584 00:49:57,519 --> 00:50:02,840 it just to work with Peter both? Peter is such admiration for Peter. 585 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,719 I mean, what author takes books that they have off the market, who's 586 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:14,639 made a life career and interest in researching and studying this work, and then 587 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,079 takes the products they have and no longer has them. And I looked at 588 00:50:19,159 --> 00:50:22,960 his research and was so impressed with it. I said, Peter, let's 589 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,039 do an experiment. I mean I literally just threw this at him. I 590 00:50:25,039 --> 00:50:29,559 don't think he expected it at all. I said, if you can read 591 00:50:29,639 --> 00:50:32,559 this from paper, you can read it from a teleprompter. Let's just put 592 00:50:32,599 --> 00:50:36,599 you in front of a green screen and see what happens. And he was 593 00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:38,440 like, well, like, do we have time before we go to the 594 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,440 meeting. I said, sure, we have an hour and a half. 595 00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:44,639 Let's just try it. So I made lunch, I invited Bob over, 596 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:49,719 I invited another filmmaker over and I think Peter didn't know quite what hit him, 597 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:53,000 but I wanted to get him in front of a camera, and I 598 00:50:53,039 --> 00:50:57,960 thought, gosh, she's got this great power point done. I did a 599 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,960 project like this a number of years ago with Hatty Martin. She wanted to 600 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:06,360 release the audio tapes of Betty and Barney, and I said, wait, 601 00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,199 wait, wait, don't release that an audio because everyone will bootleg it. 602 00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:14,400 Let's do a video. And I literally sat her down in front of a 603 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,760 camera, interviewed her, and then took her power point and made a quick, 604 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,719 simple video for her called in their own words, and she loves it. 605 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:23,360 She's grateful that she has it. And Bob and I did that, 606 00:51:23,679 --> 00:51:28,519 and I thought we could do something similar with the Forrestall project and Peter would 607 00:51:28,519 --> 00:51:32,639 have another product to go out to the UFO community with. You know, 608 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,159 it helps to have books and products that people can identify you with. And 609 00:51:38,199 --> 00:51:45,280 I thought that the research she did on Forestall was tremendously important because we are 610 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,239 starting to see disclosure in a way now that we never had before. And 611 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,519 what's happening is everyone is hearkening now back to when did all this disclosure begin? 612 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,679 Well, boot it's right there with Forrestall. You know, nineteen forty 613 00:51:58,679 --> 00:52:04,639 seven to ninety nine to nineteen fifty two. All these important parts of history 614 00:52:04,679 --> 00:52:08,480 become extremely important. If you're going to be an historian and really understand this 615 00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:13,920 topic. You need to understand the veil of secrecy, and you need to 616 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,559 understand who James Forrestall was. And for me, it was an eye opening 617 00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:22,239 experience. I learned a lot, and I've even learned more. I mean, 618 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:27,159 if you think about what was going on in that period of time. 619 00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:30,599 You know, in fact, Linda Howe and I were just on a cruise 620 00:52:30,639 --> 00:52:34,719 together, this UFO cruise that went out of San Diego, when we were 621 00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,880 sitting around with about twenty five people and we were thinking, okay, what 622 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:45,360 was happening between January and like July of nineteen forty seven. This was right 623 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:52,760 when the height of the codification of secrecy was starting and MJ twelve was forming 624 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,840 and Forrestall was moving into his position. And you think about it, they're 625 00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:01,840 all like four or five major events. In January, Admiral byrd Right took 626 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:06,800 off and went to Antarctica. You know, of course I don't remember this 627 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,960 in my life history because I wasn't even born yet. I wasn't born until 628 00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:14,599 nineteen fifty five. But apparently there was a blot of hooplah. He left 629 00:53:14,639 --> 00:53:20,159 with like an armada to go to you know, anti Arctica. Why we 630 00:53:20,159 --> 00:53:23,079 weren't at war anymore. And then everything gets hushed up in the news and 631 00:53:23,159 --> 00:53:30,440 he makes this announcement from from Chili that he's had a very strange experience there, 632 00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,639 and then he comes back and never talks about it. That was very 633 00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:37,039 strange, and I think he lost half his fleet. He went with fourteen 634 00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:43,079 ships and a like a navy you know, a navy carrier and things. 635 00:53:43,079 --> 00:53:46,239 So that was incredible, right if he really had an encounter down there with 636 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:51,960 UFOs, which everyone thinks. Then you go to May nineteen forty seven. 637 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:59,760 You've got the famous Sacora case, right, and in what year nineteen forty 638 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,599 seven? No, that wasn't So that wasn't Scora. I thought, I 639 00:54:02,639 --> 00:54:07,800 thought that was all the same year. Then you have June fourteen, nineteen 640 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:13,039 forty seven, you've got Kenneth Arnold right in the Cascade Mountains. Of course, 641 00:54:13,119 --> 00:54:16,719 you know, he comes out, he's an you know, an experienced 642 00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:22,679 pilot. He knows what he's seeing and I think he designed air aircraft. 643 00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:27,159 I think he was an aircraft engineer. And then you have July nineteen forty 644 00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:30,239 seven, the whole Ross Wild case, So bam bam, bam, bam 645 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:36,000 bam. You have all these things happening, and you think, gosh, 646 00:54:36,039 --> 00:54:40,360 what was going on for James? What was he being thrown into and what 647 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:45,800 was he having to digest. We don't really go into all these events, 648 00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:50,800 all these UFO events in the film. It mostly just follows James life, 649 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,440 so you can climb inside his life and understand who he was. And I 650 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:59,559 really commend Peter. This is one of the things that I tried to do 651 00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:01,840 with the t Travis film, and Peter just mentioned it, but I think 652 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:07,400 it's very, very important. There are many intelligent people that won't even begin 653 00:55:07,559 --> 00:55:14,360 to digest the topic of UFOs because it's been this forbidden topic. It's not 654 00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:17,440 polite dinner conversation, right. You don't go to a cocktail party and start 655 00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:22,519 talking about it. You'll be alienated. So to do something historically accurate that 656 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:30,440 suggests there might be a difficult history and past to someone who should be remembered 657 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:35,840 as a real hero in our country and is not and was probably murdered over 658 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:40,920 this topic. I think it forces anyone in the general public interested in this 659 00:55:42,039 --> 00:55:46,199 topic and interested in the history to go do their own digging, and this 660 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:52,639 type of documentary can get out to the mainstream. Just like the Travis film 661 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:57,280 I did. I didn't do a film about UFOs. I did a film 662 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:01,039 that was about this man's personal life and how it was destroyed. And all 663 00:56:01,039 --> 00:56:06,840 the seven loggers lives in many ways were destroyed over having this incident happened to 664 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,199 them, and the film became a bit of a breakthrough film. I mean, 665 00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:15,440 we made it into mainstream festivals that would never accept a documentary on UFOs, 666 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:21,880 but because they didn't know who Travels was and they watched it a lot 667 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,840 of the festival, you know, screeners said, hey, I love this 668 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,199 film. I loved this film. I loved this film. I wanted in 669 00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,800 our festival, so we made it in. I think I applied to fifty 670 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:32,760 film festivals. I got into twenty eight, and I think I won like 671 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:38,480 eight awards on top of getting into the festivals. So I think that the 672 00:56:38,519 --> 00:56:44,760 Forestall project had that potential, and that's why I sat Peter down and said, 673 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:49,320 look, let's do something with this and actually we dedicated it to Stanton 674 00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:57,119 Freedman had just lost Stanton or actually when we started this in April, Stanton 675 00:56:57,199 --> 00:57:00,599 was still alive, and I think he had decided to dedicate it to him 676 00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:04,679 already, and that and then when he died, it was even more important 677 00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,360 to get it out there. But a couple of things. First of all, 678 00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:12,760 that was nineteen sixty four for the Skoro incident. Thanks, that's no 679 00:57:13,159 --> 00:57:15,320 big deal. But I do want to and I don't care either one of 680 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,639 you want to tackle this. But I've heard, you know, MJ twelve 681 00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:22,400 come up a number of times, and that is that's a controversial topic, 682 00:57:23,119 --> 00:57:29,440 and it is Martin, whether MJ twelve actually exists, existed or not. 683 00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:34,280 And does either one of you want to tackle that? What your thoughts are? 684 00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:45,360 Let me go first. Another thing that Stanton Friedman was able to establish 685 00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:53,719 through a very careful extended search of records within the National Archives was locating two 686 00:57:54,559 --> 00:58:04,159 completely authentic, independent documents that were independent of anything associated with UFOs, identifying 687 00:58:04,519 --> 00:58:13,039 a MJ twelve or Magic twelve as it's sometimes known, working group, a 688 00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:17,519 highly secured working group within the government, with no reference to what the group 689 00:58:17,599 --> 00:58:23,159 was about, like many people in the field who have studied this material to 690 00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:28,039 one degree or another. I have a lot of problems with a lot of 691 00:58:28,079 --> 00:58:32,280 it. Again, going back to the summer of nineteen eighty seven, eight 692 00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:38,639 page document purporting to be a briefing document on Roswell and associated subjects for then 693 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:49,599 President elect Eisenhower identified this original working group of twelve individuals around Truman. However, 694 00:58:50,039 --> 00:58:54,199 in the intervening decade since eighty seven, I'm sure no less than several 695 00:58:54,360 --> 00:59:00,719 hundred documents purporting to be majestic twelve m j twelve documents have come out. 696 00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:08,519 I agree with stands conclusions that the initial eight page briefing document and the one 697 00:59:08,559 --> 00:59:14,960 page attached letter from Truman to Forestall are authentic, and I go to some 698 00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:21,679 pains in the documentary to make sure that one can see how they fit letter 699 00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:28,119 perfect aspects of them with the known timeline, and then make sure that in 700 00:59:28,159 --> 00:59:35,639 each case, if they were proved to be not authentic the letter and the 701 00:59:35,679 --> 00:59:39,599 briefing document, that within that exact same timeframe, we have other material to 702 00:59:39,679 --> 00:59:45,639 draw on that supports the same conclusions. So I do go on at the 703 00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:51,280 end because I know I'm talking hopefully primarily primarily to folks who are not involved 704 00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:57,760 in the subject of very brief summation on MJ twelve. In no way is 705 00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:02,000 this documentary about. It simply refers to it. And even in the brief 706 01:00:02,039 --> 01:00:07,800 treatment of an hour based in more than thirty years of investigation, five members 707 01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:15,760 of the twelve come up playing roles directly involved with Forrestalls life and interfacing with 708 01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:20,280 him personally throughout the narrative. Okay, that is it for the free part 709 01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,159 of the show. Thank you so much for listening. And if you'd like 710 01:00:22,199 --> 01:00:27,239 to support the show and get two hour shows or close to two hour shows, 711 01:00:27,239 --> 01:00:30,360 I should say every week and plus the archives, all you have to 712 01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:37,840 do is go over to podcastufo dot com to the support the show page and 713 01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,840 all that information is there. You can make a one time per year payment 714 01:00:42,119 --> 01:00:46,920 as low as fifteen dollars or a once a month payment for only two dollars 715 01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:52,000 a month, and you can do that through Patreon is linked right there, 716 01:00:52,159 --> 01:00:57,199 or through our subscription service, and you can play these shows in your media 717 01:00:57,239 --> 01:01:00,840 player. You can, whether it's free or through description. So anyway, 718 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:05,079 I want to thank you all for listening, and next week we are going 719 01:01:05,119 --> 01:01:09,360 to be back with Kathy Martin in the first hour and Stacy Wright and Marion 720 01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:15,760 rob in the second hour of that show. So thanks again everyone, and 721 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:29,920 remember to keep your eyes to the sky.