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an email. We'll talk about special
operations covert. Ask me any the Team

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House with your hopes. Jack Murphy
and David Park Welcome to The Team Mouse,

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episode two hundred and twenty seven.
I'm Dave Park. Uh here's my

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co host, Jack Murphy. Oh, Jack's out tonight. We have a

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very special guest, uh Nate Cornakia
Special Forces. Oh what what rank did

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you get to? Nate? Uh
Strom? First Class? Okay, Special

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Forces for about ten years, ten
and a half years and great great stories

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tonight, so uh stand by,
So Nate, welcome and thanks for joining

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us. Yeah, thanks for having
me. It's an honor. You know,

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you guys have some really impressive operators
on the show. So I'm just

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honored to be here. Well,
we're honored to have you. So what's

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your origin story? How what led
you come too the military? Like?

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How did you? An easy one? This is this is a really easy

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one, right. So my family
has a very uh, you know kind

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of story military history. So my
grandpa was in the eighty second, he

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jumped into Normandy on D Day.
My dad was a Greenbray as well,

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forty six company. He was in
the eight Camps in Vietnam. So for

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me, that was sort of an
easy decision, right, you know,

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it took me a little while to
get there. I went to college first

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before I came in. But you
know, it was one of those things,

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is I really just wanted to be
you know, like dad, right

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and grandpa in a way because you
know, sort of war heroes as your

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grandpa and your father, and you
kind of want to live up to do

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that. I don't really necessarily think
I did, because those conflicts are just

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so crazy that they were in.
But you know, it's it's cool that

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we have such a lineage that we
have in our direct mind for sure.

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Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting, isn't it When you think about the

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trench warfare in World War One,
and then you know, like Normandy and

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you know, and the Visitic Islands
of World War Two, and then the

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type of conflict that we had in
Afghanistan Iraq, it's very different. Yeah,

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and you know Vietnam as well,
because you know, having a dad

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and also so many of his teammates
that he's still friends with in contact with.

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So guys like Riley Lott, who
was the n c I S of

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Mike Forces for seven years, who
just passed away recently. He just got

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inductedto the Special fourth Solvain. Guys
like that, Jim Day and mcview sog.

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These are guys that you know and
my dad that I grew up around

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listening to their stories, right,
you know, I have some pretty wild

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combat stories and then I listened to
their stories and I'm just like, good

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job, you know, like I've
been through almost nothing, you know,

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comparatively in the comrade room from from
the guys who came before us for sure.

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So did you always know you wanted
to be a Green Beret then?

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So, you know, I mean
I was a Green Bret for Halloween when

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I was five years old, so
but I still would have lost. You

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know, I was an athlete all
the way through college, so that was

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sort of my goal. I played
baseball, so that was sort of my

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focus at the time, and then
you know, sort of through college kind

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of found that, you know,
I was completely lacking purpose. I didn't

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know what I wanted to do,
and sort of a kind of a weird

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story, just woke up randomly one
day and was like, I'm gonna I'm

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gonna join the military. I'm gonna
follow in dad's footsteps. Luckily having a

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dad that was fust forces, he
knew about, you know, a eighteen

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X ray contract that could get me
straight to selection, so that helped me

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a lot, having sort of the
pathway already known from you know, having

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a group guy as a dad.
But that's sort of how that sort of

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little pathway started for me. Was
sort of a lack of purpose that led

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me into you know, going for
this career, which thank god I did,

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because you know who knows where life
would have taken me otherwise. Now,

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you know, we talked to a
lot of you know, guys in

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particular who are older and like ninety
eleven was a defining moment for them maybe

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they were already in the military or
they went in shortly thereafter. But for

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you, because you went in in
twenty thirteen, correct, yep, so

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for you, they're already go ahead. Well, yeah, I was gonna

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say, you know, for me, nine to eleven was I was in.

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I was in in high school,
so referen high school. So I

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don't think I really registered. You
know, obviously I knew, you know,

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what a terrible tragedy wasn't whattnot.
But I don't think I had registered.

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What it meant as if had I
been a little bit older and already

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at the age to be able to
join the military at the time. And

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I think sort of by the time, you know, I was eighteen nineteen,

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I already planned on going to college
and doing sports and whatnot, that

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that sort of wasn't something I was
even thinking about. So yeah, a

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little bit differently, Yeah, I
guess, And what was your awareness of

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the war up at that point?
Because we had been in Iraq for you

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know, ten years. We've been
in Afghanistan for twelve. Yeah, so

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I mean I definitely had friends from
high school that joined, you know,

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and I had buddies that I went
to that actually went to college with that

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had been in Fellujiah and whatnot,
and you know they had gotten out of

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the service after that and they were
in college now. So obviously, you

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know, I had the awareness of
that, and still you know, still

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followed the conflict quite a bit because
of my dad, you know what I

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mean, We're still definitely in a
military family and followed that very closely.

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And yeah, so I think it's
I don't know, it's one of those

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weird things again for me, more
so of you know, I've always been

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a huge patriot, coming from a
family the type of family come in,

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but more so for me, it
was wanting to like live up to what

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my dad achieved. And he didn't
just achieve that. My dad's in staying

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achiever all around. Right, He
was a Green Beret, he became a

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politician for sixteen years, the lawyer
for forty years. So I mean he's

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hit the whole gambit of life success. But so for me, really that

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was the big thing is following and
footsteps of Dad. More so now I

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found sort of patriotism and then everything
not more patriotism, but sort of love

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of the military and all that as
I went through the military, but up

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front that's more of what it was. Then sort of love of country,

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you know, the typically that type
of thing. Mine was more of a

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family traditional type of thing. Yeah, so you get the eighteen X ray

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program, you go, did you
go to a Fort Benning? Yeah,

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yeah, yep, so the way, so the way the at least when

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I went through, right, it's
been eleven years now, but the program

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basically sends you to basic training and
to airborne school and then now provided you

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you know, make it through basic
training, right, but and then guarantees

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you to go to spect Forces selection. That's all I guarantees is a chance

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to go to selection. So yeah, I went to four Betting four months

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in basic training and then you go
straight to airborne school from basic, so

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you're right down the street, you
do your airborne school and then you drive

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up to North Carolina in process and
get ready to go to selection. So

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four months did so did you go
to the infantry basic? After? It

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was the whole so you got an
an MOS out of that. Well,

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so no, so we do.
So you did your typical sixteen weeks infantry

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and then or basic training and then
infantry ai T. That's part of the

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eighteen x ray course. And I
think they do that because you know,

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honestly, like ninety percent of those
guys that are going to wash out and

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go to the infantry, so that
way they already have the infantry MOS,

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but you don't. Actually you still
carry the eighteen x MOS the entire time

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until you either wash out and become
a eleven Bravo or you make it and

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you become the eighteen series. How
that works? Now? Would did you

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do anything to prep because obviously you
don't get into in shape really in basic

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training, So how did you prep
you for SFAs you get actually a negative

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shape? You know, I came
in as a college athlete in incredible shape.

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I was ready to go for sure, and basic training was massive rance

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right or brought my fistical fitness levels
way down. But as the eighteen x

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ray you go to before you go
to selection, there's a course called I

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think it's sopsy stuff Operations, Preparation, preparation and conditioning. So it's like

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a three week course all the eighteen
x rays go to that basically is just

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three weeks of getting back in shape. You're going to do some land navigation,

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learn stuff like that sort of prep
you to go to selection, which

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is actually a huge benefit to go
to that course. So that's sort of

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like get lets you get back into
the condition you were and honestly, you

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know, the eighteen X rays because
of that course, kind of go into

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selection at a much higher fitness level
on average than anybody else. Really.

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Yeah, so it doesn't necessarily mean
you're going to be more successful, but

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usually you know, those guys eighteen
x rays are getting the best times on

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the runs and the rooks and all
that type of stuff. Right, dude,

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for the shop, See, did
were they smart about the fitness and

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the conditioning or did they just kind
of smoke your bags? No? No,

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no, it's it. Well,
when I went through, it's an

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awesome course. They had guys that, like the whole course was designed around

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actually functional fitness recovery you ate,
you know, like four or five thousand

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calories a day. I mean,
in awesome course to actually prep you.

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It wasn't your typical military like we're
just gonna break you before you go to

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selection. It was. It's actually
designed to get you fit physically ready to

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go to selection. So probably one
of the better courses that are part that's

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part of the entire two course,
but that's because it's not just a smoker.

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Yeah, and then do you go
directly? Did you go directly from

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that into SFAs or was a wait
period? I think I think it was

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probably like a week between. So, yeah, you come out and then

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pretty much go right away right after
that. And what did you think of

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SFAs when you were there selection?
Oh? Man, you know at that

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point. You know, it's funny. I had you know, I was

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fortunate and I had a Greenbray as
a dad. So I knew what the

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two course and tail right, I
knew the structure of it. I knew

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what f FAS entailed. I knew
the all of all the events. But

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you know, I only had four
months in the military and I was a

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little bit older. So I was
twenty three or twenty twenty four when I

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when I joined. So but I
mean, maturity wise, when you're around

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guys can brain your battalion and you
know E five E six is from the

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eighty second and you've been in the
military for four months, you know,

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you really don't know anything. For
me, I sort of just tried to

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carry as my dad, getting the
advice as much weight as you can,

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and you know, sort of just
be respectful to people and keep your mouth

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shut for the most part, you
know, because I was you know,

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I had college, so it was
an E four. I came in as

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a as a E four, but
you know, I didn't know, I

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didn't know anything. So that was
kind of my thing was be the guy

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that you know. I was big. I'm six foot two, two hundred

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and twenty pounds, so big,
strong, carry weight, not complain,

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which you know can take you a
long way in the eyes of your peers

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in a situation like s AS for
sure. Yeah. And then so you

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you graduate SFS and then which MS
did you choose or what's chosen for you?

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Well, so you get a wish
list at selection right where you rank

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from first last or you know,
medic communicator, engineer, weabon, sergeant,

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and so my wish list I put
engineer first. My dad was an

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engineer, so I wanted to do
that, and then communicator second, which

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is what I ended up getting so
I ended up getting the eighteen echo MLS,

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which you know, I'm not.
I was never a huge fan of

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radio as the whole way through my
career, but you know I was.

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You know, I made sure I
was good enough to get my team comms

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at all times. But I was
never a radio nerd. Everybody always thought

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I was an eighteen Bravo, you
know, A group whenever they met me

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ended up what my MLS was.
Yeah. So so you you made sure

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that they didn't drop a fill,
but you weren't big on wave propagation theory

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and everything. Yeah, exactly right, I kid, I make sure you

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got comms on THEE one fifty two. I knew how to set up the

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SDN lawlessly. Other than that,
like, don't ask me if you're the

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commander, don't ask me to do
any wazoo stuff. Right, we're not,

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We're not going down that road.
Yeah, I'll get my dream.

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I'll get my junior to do that. You know. That's sort of where

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I got two later back career.
Yeah, and then what so then where

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did you get assign what? What
team did you go to? What group?

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Yeah? So interesting? So I
initially was had Russian as the languages

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and was supposed to go to tenth
group, and then I ended up breaking

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breaking my foot on a ruck at
twelve mile ruck. About three miles into

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the ruck, I fell into a
or stepped into a pothole that because they

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had been raining on the side of
the roads in North Carolina, stepped into

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it and it was like three feet
deep, fell in, broke my foot.

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Ended up completing the ruck in time, which I mean I probably would

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have made it through the shoe course
out I had not done that. But

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because of that, it reset me
and I had to read you that phases

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the course and wait for my leg
or my foot to heel obviously, and

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then I got Chinese Mandarin as I
got reset back into the system, and

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then first group. So that's how
you ended up getting over the first group.

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And then yeah, I got to
I got the first group with my

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00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.360
group of guys, and then you
know, you go into the start major's

213
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.360
office of battalion and he sends you
over the company and you go into another

214
00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:28.840
startan major's office your first day,
and me and my buddy who went through

215
00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:33.000
the whole two course together, both
eighteen echoes, walked into the same company.

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00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:35.919
He went into start Major's office first, and he walked out and had

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00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:39.279
a slot on the Halo team.
And so I walked out. I walked

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00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:46.039
in second and sat down and start
Major pointed at the board and he says,

219
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.480
all right, we got one spot
on a team for eighteen echo if

220
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you want to be on a team, And obviously that's all I wanted,

221
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and he's all right, can you
swim? Can you swim? And I'm

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00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:58.799
like, oh god, He's like, well, you're head to do the

223
00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:04.000
dive team. So that's how I
started my career and ended up on a

224
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:08.440
combat dive team for three and a
half four years. So yeah, that's

225
00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:12.279
how that's where I ended up on
my first team. So when you went

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00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:15.679
to Mandarin was it was it there
brag or did they send you a d

227
00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.879
l I? How did that work
for you? And how long was it?

228
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.919
So? Yeah, so language school
at least when I went through,

229
00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:25.759
was right there at Braga And this
is six months, eight hours a day,

230
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:30.720
and we had like an instructor from
North Carolina State that was from Taiwan.

231
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:36.399
So I mean you definitely are immersed
and learned the language pretty well.

232
00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:40.399
It's you know, six months straight
eight hours a day of your target language

233
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.519
with Chinese Mandarin? Is it this
brutal to maintain? So you know,

234
00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:48.480
I was pretty I could speak pretty
well my you know, first couple of

235
00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:53.360
years out and then you know,
ten years later that OPI was was pretty

236
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:57.039
ugly, right, Yeah. I
struggled through to to get my one one

237
00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:03.200
yeast of the time by Dean.
Yeah. So what was it like getting

238
00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:08.079
to first group, which is you
know, focused on Asia. Basically you

239
00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:11.680
go to a dive team. Did
you go like what was your setup for?

240
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:18.119
Were they showing rotations, you know, to Afghanistan. Were you set

241
00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:22.480
up directly for like pre scuba.
Yeah, so interesting sort of how that

242
00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:30.039
works, right because at that time, that was twenty fifteen, sixteen ish,

243
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.279
and we were really in the height
of that eighteen month rotation all the

244
00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:38.319
groups right where six months in Afghanistan, twelve months off, six months in

245
00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:41.680
Afghanistan and twelve months off. That's
what all the teams were doing. We

246
00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:47.000
were rotating in and out and replacing
everybody. So that was the entire focus

247
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.480
of the battalion in our company when
I got there. So I got there

248
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:56.480
immediately went on a trip to the
Philippines, which was cool. But that's

249
00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.079
just the first trip, just a
you know, training partner force of deployment,

250
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:04.920
got back and then had a little
bit of time to be able to

251
00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:10.240
try to go to dive school.
Was in pre dive ended up tearing my

252
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:15.079
meniscus in my right knee, and
so I wasn't able to finish dive school.

253
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.200
And then by the time I had
recovered, and then we were straight

254
00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:23.240
into PMT for the next rotation of
Afghanistan, which for you know, people

255
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.519
who don't know, it's not just
you don't just deploy for six months Afghanistan,

256
00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:30.640
right, you have that big train
up that's usually like nine months,

257
00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:34.759
that incorporates multiple PMTs, cephalic,
all these different things you do as a

258
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:38.720
team to get ready for that combat
deployment. So it's really like a you

259
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:45.359
know, twelve to fourteen month sort
of total of train up and deployment.

260
00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.599
So I wasn't able to go to
dive school because of that. Came back

261
00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:56.240
and when I came back from that
trip, I had to have surgery on

262
00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:00.640
both my knees. So by the
time I recovered from that, we had

263
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.519
another different trip we were going on
too, So I actually never ended up

264
00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:07.440
getting to go to dive school after
even being on a team for three a

265
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.319
half four years, and there's another
couple of guys on the team that were

266
00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:12.960
the same way. We just never
got an opportunity to go because that wasn't

267
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:17.440
the focus. So, you know, you're rotating out of combat, you

268
00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:21.839
know, the paylo or the dive
nobody really not that they don't care about

269
00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:25.799
that, right, but like there's
no water in Afghanistan, right, So

270
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.519
that wasn't the big So the focus
was, you know, could you you

271
00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:33.839
want to miss PMT and on all
the train up for war to go to

272
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.200
dive school with your team, or
do you want to be ready to go

273
00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:40.960
to war? So it's kind of
situation that we're in what was that what

274
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:45.480
was that six month period or you
know whatever a train up like, because

275
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.680
obviously there was probably quite a bit
of combat experience on your team at that

276
00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:55.000
point time, right, A ton
a ton, so especially on that team

277
00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:03.559
for that went on. Our twenty
eighteen Afghanistan rotation was honestly it was like

278
00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.759
an all star team. Now,
I had no experience at the time,

279
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:11.640
so I can't say I was at
all start. But the senior level group

280
00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:15.640
of the team that had basically been
hand picked and put together and we ended

281
00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.640
up having the highest one of the
highest profile missions in country because of it.

282
00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:23.920
And yeah, I mean our senior
we had two We had two eighteen

283
00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:27.599
deltas who both had like seven years
team time, right, the junior had

284
00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:34.279
like seven years team time, and
the most senior eighteen Delta, who I

285
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:37.559
ended up being on a team with
for like five six years, really like

286
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.559
one of my biggest mentors. He
had like five combat rotations already. The

287
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.480
team sergeant had three or four.
Everybody on the team other than a couple

288
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:52.559
of the new guys had multiple rotations
through already, so which was amazing for

289
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:55.480
me on a first trip. Yeah. Well, I basically just got to

290
00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:00.279
soak up so much knowledge, and
by the time I had gone through full

291
00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:04.720
PMT and my first combat rotation,
I was so far beyond the average amount

292
00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:11.240
of experience for somebody at my point
in career combat experience wise, because of

293
00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:12.559
those guys on my team, you
know what I mean. So yeah,

294
00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:21.839
yeah, So with uh, you
mentioned that your junior delta had you know,

295
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.960
seven years, right, Yeah,
I think at that point he had

296
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:30.799
like six or seven years, and
he was the junior because our senior had

297
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.400
even more time than that, And
I mean obviously probably could have gone somewhere

298
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:37.599
to be a senior. Was it
was a team just very tight, no,

299
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:41.400
So he was the senior, right, and then he was the senior

300
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.519
for like two he had been the
senior for like two or three years.

301
00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:49.759
And then our other older senior who
used to be So I'll pull back.

302
00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:53.359
So when he was a junior,
a new guy in the team, his

303
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:59.400
senior, they're to still the same
two guys. This was years before I

304
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:03.079
got to It was his senior,
right, and then he went on a

305
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:07.519
broadening assignment for three years, came
back to the ODA, and so his

306
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.400
old senior was now his senior again, even though he had been the senior

307
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.200
delta for like three years up to
that point. So that's sort of the

308
00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:18.200
joke of Blake. You know,
you're the new junior eighteen delta even though

309
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.920
you've been a senior for He was
the like the most senior eighteen delta in

310
00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:23.920
the company other than his old senior
who came back. So that's just how

311
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.480
I have a level of experience this
specific ODIA had with guys, multiple guys

312
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.440
like that in you know, MLS
is like that, which is pretty rare

313
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.640
to have that. That's amazing.
Real quickly when you give a shout out

314
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:41.519
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333
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Uh. Great stuff. So back to

344
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:53.240
you, Nate. So what what
was it like your first deployment. You

345
00:24:53.279 --> 00:25:00.279
know, you have this long history
of family in combat and now your you're

346
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:07.279
deploying. Oh yeah, man,
that's that's a good question. I think

347
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:12.960
anybody's asking that question before. So, you know, going into my first

348
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:21.200
appointment, I actually felt quite confident
just because of the men around me on

349
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.319
that team, right, I mean
I had just guys that were honestly sort

350
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:30.440
of legends in you know, the
I W was say, sort of legends

351
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:36.599
in the company and the battalion get
at already, and so that that gives

352
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:40.799
you a lot more confident than you
know, I knew that this team had

353
00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:45.240
been put together sort of handpicked by
the command team to do a really high

354
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:49.599
profile mission. But you know,
I also knew in the back of my

355
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:53.200
head like, oh shit, I
have no idea what I'm doing. Right,

356
00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:59.359
And for example, you know,
right out the gate are very first

357
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:03.960
combat operation. We had the one
sixtieth sixtieth fly us in and we landed

358
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:08.200
on the fucking X. Sorry my
language, No, you're fine, you

359
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:12.880
can cut okay. You know we
landed on the X, right, So

360
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:18.359
I jump out of it with one
sixtieth bird look up and the compound is

361
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:21.559
boom right there, and there's murder
holes everywhere, right, so I'm like,

362
00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:26.880
oh, holy shit, well this
is for real, right, But

363
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.720
you know, the way our team
started had set it up. He sort

364
00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:36.440
of had but sort of each of
the new guys with one of the really

365
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:41.200
experienced seniors. But then he also
not the very first couple missions, so

366
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:42.839
we get our feet wet. But
then he also made us new guys the

367
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:47.599
element leaders and sort of had the
more experienced guys there with us, you

368
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:52.720
know, sort of as gatekeepers to
keep us in line. But in doing

369
00:26:52.880 --> 00:27:00.039
that sort of you know, like
massively increased our experience so fast because we

370
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:06.519
were so integrated into the planning process
and actually leading elements doing all stuff typically

371
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:10.799
senior guys would be doing. So
we learned fast, right. And we

372
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:14.559
also we had a lot we had
a really high op tempo. We were

373
00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:18.240
doing missions about every five days pretty
much, all period of darkness, nighttime

374
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:22.640
raids all. We have talked about
it before the show, but I so

375
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:29.599
we were in the Candahar area,
operating through that sort of Heroin Silk Road

376
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:33.640
for people who don't know from you
know, a pack stand up through Candahar

377
00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.519
into Helmand and then out towards Iran. There's a lot of Talban activity in

378
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:42.359
that area, so we were really
targeting big facilities, taking down not really

379
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:47.559
looking for drugs at all. We
weren't doing an acid stuff, but you

380
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:52.680
know, taking out sort of big
targets along that road because the Talban you

381
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:57.720
know, typically wanted to hold that
area, those areas. So so yeah,

382
00:27:57.799 --> 00:28:00.279
for the first deployment, I mean
it was a pretty wild first deployment,

383
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:04.200
right is it was super connectic.
We were in tons of gunfights,

384
00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:10.359
tons of missions, so you know, it was peaked to the fire real

385
00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:14.880
real fast. And yeah, but
but awestome at the same at the same

386
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:15.880
time, you know, it was
kind of that trip was kind of like

387
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:19.599
two three combat deployments in one.
When you when you take the amount of

388
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:27.680
stuff we did, what year was
it that you why didn't Afghanistan? So

389
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:32.680
in twenty eighteen, So we I
tell people that. So basically, like

390
00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:37.759
I think we were on thirty d
eight pre deployment leave when Donald Trump,

391
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:42.759
you know, made that famous statement
that we are not here to nation build,

392
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:47.400
we are here to kill terrorists.
So that was like three weeks before

393
00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:52.599
we landed into Afghanistan. The morrow
we changed and we went after it,

394
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.519
so we were there to basically take
it to the Taliban and then part of

395
00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:02.680
our part of our battalion was also
clearing out the name of our valley and

396
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:07.079
basically was that was the time we
pretty much eliminated ISIS out of afghan staying

397
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.279
up through the name of har valley. That was all sort of that same

398
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:14.279
timeline. On that same trip,
MYODIA wasn't operating in that area, but

399
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.920
are some of our teams in the
company were on those big ISIS clearing operations

400
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.759
at the same time. Just to
give it an idea of what time frame

401
00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:32.599
that plus so it's twenty eighteen,
what was the SF mission at that time?

402
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.079
Like was it like Robin Sage you
said you went you were flying on

403
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:40.160
the one sixty if going connectict.
So there wasn't a lot of the sort

404
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:45.279
of unconventional warfare style, correct,
No, not really. So we my

405
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:49.559
ODEA was working with the Third Sock
Commandos and the Third Sock A and a

406
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:55.640
Special Forces guys and now it was
pretty much every mission we did was nighttime,

407
00:29:56.279 --> 00:30:00.880
right, I mean over and over
and over again. Everything you know.

408
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:04.599
There was really no nation building or
there wasn't no partner Force development.

409
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:08.039
We barely ever trained with the guys. We pretty much just went on missions,

410
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.759
so sort of that U dub type
of thing, we didn't do any

411
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:15.559
of that. It was all point
target. We are there to destruct or

412
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:22.720
disrupt and destroy as much of the
Taliban Talban tap capabilities as we can in

413
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.599
our area. So that was the
whole focus for them. And how how

414
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:33.680
was it working with the Afghan stock? Yeah? Yeah, so the commandos

415
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:38.000
were rough, right, real rough, you had to We ran in some

416
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:44.960
definite sketchiness a lot of the time. But we had the actual A and

417
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:48.680
A Special Forces guys, which those
are the guys that go through a real

418
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:53.160
Q course with Special Forces instructors.
Some of those guys have been doing it

419
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:57.680
for fifteen years. They've been fighting
the Taliban for the entire conflict. And

420
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:03.480
those guys, some of them were
legit. I mean, I wouldn't say

421
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:06.160
that at the level of an American
Special Forces guy, but I mean they

422
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:11.680
no bullshit, some of these guys. So when we had the the ANASF

423
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.960
guys, we were able to really
you know, take it to the Taliban

424
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:18.839
in a lot of ways because they
were willing to fight, right, they

425
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.720
were willing to get their hands dirty, whereas the commandos, you know,

426
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:26.039
when when the bullets started flying,
they were sort of like, no,

427
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.720
we're not really actually interested in in
this war thing, right, We're just

428
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.839
gonna lay down and sort of hide
and let you guys take care of it.

429
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:37.039
So, so how did that work
for you? Guys? You had

430
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:41.079
I assume a twelve man O D
A. And then you had your an

431
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.039
indigenous partner force that would go in
with you. Would ye, would they

432
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:48.720
lead the assault? Would you lead
this assault? How did that all work

433
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:56.400
out? So? You know,
they the tactics we use have changed year

434
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:59.720
by year by year by year and
what and what we do. So at

435
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:05.880
that point it had gotten to basically
single file movements everywhere. So we would

436
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:09.200
obviously planning the missions, we led
the missions. So I would as an

437
00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:14.039
element leader, I would have you
know, the Afghan team leader next to

438
00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:16.240
me for that element, and I
would be telling him what to do,

439
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:19.480
and he would then tell his guys
what to do. Right, I would

440
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:21.720
say, Hey, we're going to
this compound, We're going to this fumpound,

441
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:32.119
that sort of thing. But but
yeah, so I'm sorry back,

442
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:37.319
but what was the no just about
how just about how the dynamics was with

443
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:40.480
you and them, Oh, how
the assaults would work. Yeah, yeah,

444
00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:44.640
yeah, So we would have again
we had our twelve man team,

445
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:47.359
but we also would try to plus
it up with a lot of different enablers.

446
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:51.359
Right, So we had a Air
Force Combat Controller that did all of

447
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:55.920
our fires type of stuff. We
had a SAWDA, we had two EOD

448
00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.759
texts. We would bring out usually
four or five uplift guys, so infantry

449
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:06.079
guys that would be security for the
commander and the CCT. So we would

450
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:12.119
have probably about twenty Americans total on
the ground and then usually fifty to sixty

451
00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:15.559
Afghans because we were working with the
s F guys most of the time,

452
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:19.119
we didn't need as many Afghans to
be able to get as much done.

453
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:23.079
So that would usually be about the
structure, and we worked pretty much in

454
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:30.039
four elements so that we could clear
large, large areas because the compounds,

455
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:34.079
you know, it's not like Iraq
and Afghanistan everything is. The compounds are

456
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:37.640
so spread out between hundred and twenty
hundred two hundred meters between each compound,

457
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:40.640
So you'd work in four different elements
with two or three Americans on each element

458
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.440
and that way you could work together
as a big organism to clear large swaths

459
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:51.359
of compounds that way. So that's
sort of how that was set up for

460
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:57.880
clearing operations. I guess you could
call it through a big villages, I

461
00:33:57.960 --> 00:34:01.880
guess, right. And if you're
flying with sixtieth, I mean obviously you're

462
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:07.880
doing operations similar to what the Rangers
are doing or Tier one elements are doing.

463
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:13.360
When did when did SF sort of
move into that? Do you know

464
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:16.239
when SF moved into that role when
they started flying one sixtieth and doing those

465
00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:21.400
direct hits. So we didn't have
one sixtieth for every mission, right,

466
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:23.719
that was like when we got lucky
and really at one sixty if they picked

467
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:27.760
the missions, so when they're like, oh that's the cool one that they're

468
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:31.519
gonna do, we'll fly them.
Most of the time we had regular regular

469
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:37.159
army pilots. But but yeah,
so now everybody sort of had different mission

470
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.800
sets, right, Like we had
other SF teams that we're doing sort of

471
00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:46.880
the drugs CID type stuff we had
over in like helm in Hurrah and areas

472
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:52.360
like that. We had teams doing
the big ISIS battalion size clearing operations where

473
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:59.360
you had a whole company of SF
teams moving through valleys, so everybody sort

474
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:04.119
of had a different mission set in
that regard. But I think that started

475
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:08.880
more around like twenty fifteen sixteen,
as we went away from VSO in twenty

476
00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:14.800
thirteen and we went back to the
big bases. Yeah, so that's because

477
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:16.920
we would fly in from we lived
on Candahar, and we would fly in

478
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:22.880
from Candahar to hit these targets and
fly back. So I think that's that's

479
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:25.840
kind of when we went away from
VSO. That's sort of when we transitioned

480
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:31.960
to sort of that more conventional style
point target rate type. Yeah, for

481
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:37.559
the senior guys on your team,
the guys who had been back and forth,

482
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:44.480
what was their opinion of SF doing
like Kinetic Verse VSO and things like

483
00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.760
that. Yeah, So quite a
few guys on my team they're prior.

484
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:53.039
They're prior trips were VSO trips.
So that's really when that transitioned. Sort

485
00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:57.679
of twenty twelve they were doing VSO
and then the next trip they were doing

486
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.519
what we were doing. You know, I mean, honestly, like living

487
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:04.880
living conditions, you know, it's
sort of a lot better when you've got

488
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.280
shi fi and you're living on taff
and there's surf and turf at the chow

489
00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:13.559
hall when you get back from doing
your raid, comparatively to living six months

490
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:17.320
in a mud hut. Yeah,
but I think they I think they enjoyed

491
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:22.239
VS THO more, you know,
because you got to do so much.

492
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:25.239
You were somewhere immersed in in the
fight and in the mission, and you

493
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:29.400
were doing stuff during the day,
and you could actually drive around and like

494
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:31.400
and do all kinds of different stuff. Whereas us it was kind of like

495
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:37.800
we're on base and we do hits
right when we come back. That's there

496
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:40.880
wasn't a whole lot of being immersed
out in the culture or or anything like

497
00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:46.000
that. That's sort of the first
ten years of the war what SF was

498
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:50.679
doing. Yeah. Yeah, we
had had We've had Scott Manon, who

499
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.039
was one of the guys I think
who really pushed to get those VSO operations

500
00:36:54.159 --> 00:37:00.760
going. And then I think before
before we saw any results, we just

501
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:05.639
kind of like the government just shut
them down. You know. The thing

502
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:07.719
is, though, is that with
VSO up in the twenty twelve, I

503
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.840
mean we had pretty much taken over
the country. Yeah, I mean it

504
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.679
was super effective. Once we you
know, figured out how to do it,

505
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.880
and we decided, oh, we're
just gonna draw down VSO and give

506
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:24.039
all this back to the Taliban for
example, and some of the areas and

507
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:28.519
the missions. I'm sure we'll get
into talking about. We were going into

508
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:32.880
areas that some of my buddies had
taken in VSO three or four years before

509
00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:37.360
that. We had already owned that. Now we're going back into do targets

510
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.119
hit targets on, you know what
I mean. So it didn't in that

511
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:43.039
regard, it didn't make any sense. It was like, what are we

512
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:45.920
doing? Why did we just give
this all back to them for no reason?

513
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:50.519
Yeah? Yeah, And for people
who were watching or listening VSO or

514
00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:57.000
viliage stability operations, which are similar
to like what the A camps in Vietnam,

515
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:01.559
the Marines, the close I think
of the close action platoons uh or

516
00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:08.719
civilized I think close action, but
basically creating those sort of domains of control

517
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:14.840
by you know, not taking over
village, but but inhabiting the village,

518
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:19.480
helping the people out and creating the
stability that way. Yeah. So the

519
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:22.880
biggest way they would do that is
you know, and and Afghanistan is very

520
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.519
rural and tribal. Right, so
a team would be in and they would

521
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:29.079
be with the village elder and then
they would develop, you know, a

522
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:31.440
police force or a fighting force,
and they would be able to sort of

523
00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:37.840
secure their own territory against the talban. That was sort of the idea behind

524
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:42.800
that, and then enable them to
do that. Yeah, but obviously,

525
00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:51.239
even if vsos are more effective,
kinetic is sexier a lot. Yeah,

526
00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:55.199
Yeah, it briefs better, right, It briefs better, it does for

527
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:59.599
sure, right, and it's it's
a lot cooler to uh, you know,

528
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:01.880
set and it's our a team in
the middle of the night with AC

529
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:07.320
one thirties and a tens and yeah, and I SR watching all of it.

530
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:12.079
So, yeah, so you said
your first stop, you guys landed

531
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:15.840
on your the the X which is
right on the target. Was that Was

532
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:20.119
that your first firefight or what?
What? None? Was your first firefight?

533
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:22.880
Oh? Yeah, no, So, I mean we got in a

534
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:27.440
few our very first operation, we
did get in a little bit of a

535
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:30.679
firefight towards the end, but I
mean now it scuffled out pretty quick.

536
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:37.559
Our first and then so and then
our next couple operations we got in in

537
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:45.519
smaller ones ticks here and there,
nothing like too crazy to talk about.

538
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:53.639
But the biggest, first, biggest
firefight that I got into was, or

539
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:59.039
our team got into, was the
mission I was telling about earlier where we

540
00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:01.840
got near ambushed twice. And you
know, all the guys on my team

541
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:07.880
have our awards and upwards of our
at Delta as a silver Star stuff like

542
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:12.840
that. So that's that was the
huge like when you talk about real firefight

543
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.320
when I think about now. We
had a few more after that later in

544
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:17.960
the trip as well, big ones, but that was actually sort of towards

545
00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:22.800
the front of the deployment when it
comes to a major major gunfights. So

546
00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:28.559
can you set it up and walk
us through these these near ambushes? What

547
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:31.880
was the mission profile, what did
it look like? How did it all

548
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:36.480
go down? Yeah, so I'll
give it just a backstory to what we

549
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:42.079
were doing. So again, we
were going into an area in tern Cott,

550
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:45.840
which is you know, maybe forty
minutes north of Candahart, which again

551
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:52.000
this area had been completely controlled by
us during the VSO and now we were

552
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:55.840
going back in to try to sort
of take that area again. We had

553
00:40:55.880 --> 00:41:01.280
done a few operations sort of through
the valley in that area, and this

554
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:07.000
one we had figured was probably more
of a taliban's stronghold. We had a

555
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:09.880
really good intelligence sergeant on my team
at this deployment who was able to find

556
00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:14.679
all kinds of crazy stuff, but
he had sort of figured out that this

557
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:21.559
was most likely where a big stronghold
was, where a lot of potentially taliban

558
00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:24.760
leadership were at. So that's why
we were going in to hit this target.

559
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:30.719
And so with the way it worked
because of the terrain, we had

560
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:37.440
to plan on infilling the helicopters about
two kilometers west of the main compound we

561
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:40.440
were going to try to hit for
whatever reason, I remember exactly why,

562
00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:45.519
but we had to do it that
way, and we were gonna infill both

563
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:52.480
helicopters forty sevens with about sixty guys
in two different elements, and then clear

564
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:57.840
from west to east to get to
these compounds that we were trying to get

565
00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:04.880
to. So the way I the
way I like to explain it, So

566
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:07.840
anyway, I'll just say we we
land on the c age forty seven My

567
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:13.440
element does we have two elements about
two groups of fifteen guys, and I'm

568
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:15.639
I'm main element leader of this mission, so I'm basically the head guy in

569
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:22.679
charge of our element, and we
land sort of offset of this big open

570
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:29.440
field, which there's a on the
Google imagery kind of a big dilapidated compound

571
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:34.000
about one hundred meters away. And
as I'm sure you know an ISSR,

572
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:37.599
you can never really trust exactly what
that imagery looks like, right, that

573
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:39.199
might be a lot different than it
was. But it looked like it was

574
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:43.760
old and dead, and you know, no Americans had been in this area

575
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:46.079
for four or five years, so
we figured there's no reason for the Talban

576
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:51.800
to you know, be randomly posted
up in this compound, you know,

577
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:55.840
two kilometers away from their big hub. So we land on the CGE forty

578
00:42:55.880 --> 00:43:01.360
seven, sort of in this wooded
area, and we're walking through the trees.

579
00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:05.679
And the best way I like to
describe it so people can visually see

580
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:09.519
it through their eyes as I walk
you through how this all happens is imagine

581
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:15.159
you're sort of walking through the forest
and you're coming up to an open area,

582
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:17.199
you know how that looks coming out
of the forest, and think about

583
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:22.039
you're basically on the fifty yard line
of a football field, and so you

584
00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:24.519
got the big open football field in
front of you, and you look to

585
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:30.559
your left and the end zone.
There's basically a compound that is the size

586
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:35.639
of the entire end zone. And
it's night obviously, and so we come

587
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:40.559
out and we start walking towards that
compound because in the plan we plan on

588
00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:45.119
just bypassing this compound, because we
had two kilometers ago. We didn't have

589
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:50.880
time to just clear all this random
dilapidated stuff. Right, So we're moving

590
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:54.400
up towards the compound. We're hitting
probably the thirty thirty yard line, twenty

591
00:43:54.480 --> 00:44:00.159
yard line, ten yard line,
and then we turned to horn only move

592
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:06.360
alongside the compound to come around and
bypass it. So we're paralleling the building

593
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:08.320
now, right. So as you're
walking, the building is to your left

594
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:15.280
about ten meters and we get most
of my element out in front, you

595
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:19.000
know, and we're in a big
open field in front of this compound.

596
00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:24.360
And all of a sudden, as
we're walking next to this compound, all

597
00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:30.239
hell breaks looks just fucking gun shots
and machine gun fire. It's just absolutely

598
00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:34.360
insane, and so at first it's
what, you know, what in the

599
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:37.239
hell is going on? Let me
back up real quick. So as I'm

600
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:40.679
walking up to it, I'm talking
to the predator drone and he tells me

601
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:44.679
the slant is zero zero zero.
There's no one inside this compound, and

602
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:46.880
you guys are good to go,
right, So that's that's how we're feeling

603
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:51.360
as we're going to move around.
So anyway, all of a sudden boom,

604
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:55.599
you know, out of the movies, shit is going heywire gun shots

605
00:44:55.599 --> 00:45:00.519
everywhere, machine gun fire. Turns
out there wasn't zero We find this out

606
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:02.760
later, right, we don't know
this in the moment, but we find

607
00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:07.719
out later there wasn't zero guys inside. There was ten Talban insurgents inside.

608
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:13.159
And this was a built in defensive
fighting position with a bunker, all kinds

609
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:17.840
of ship. They had, pkms, RPG's everything. So we basically are

610
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:22.480
now out in the open and we've
just been near ambushed, right, And

611
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:30.760
so I and immediately all our Afghans
laid down right, and I'm the element

612
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:32.559
leader, so I'm trying to figure
out what the hell is going on,

613
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.519
and I stee off right right next
to me to my front, to my

614
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:40.840
right are my eighteen. Bravo's got
the Mark forty eight machine gun and he's

615
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:45.000
basically got it on full auto,
spraying it into this compound trying to get

616
00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:50.800
us fire suppression, so we stopped
getting shot at As my eighteen Charlie runs

617
00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:53.440
up to the wall and he starts
throwing grenades over the top of the wall

618
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:59.320
just to try to get the fire
suppression. And I'm basically picking up the

619
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:02.599
Afghan team leader and guys by the
back of the caller because I'm as an

620
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:06.159
element leader. I'm like, I
got we have to get out of the

621
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:08.880
open field battle droll want ouph us
something? I don't know. We can't

622
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:12.840
just stand and stand the open field. We're all gonna get shredded. The

623
00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:15.760
guy from the guys next to me, he goes down, he gets shot.

624
00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:22.679
So guys are getting shredded as this
is happening, and so as as

625
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:27.000
this is all and again it's it's
it's crazy to talk about this because you

626
00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:30.400
know how long this lasted. I
still don't know. Was it two minutes,

627
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:35.280
was it fifteen minutes, I don't
know. But as I'm trying to

628
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:37.719
get these, you know, and
I'm firing firing back right, trying to

629
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:39.199
grab guys. We've got to move. They won't. They're just immediately dropping

630
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:42.639
back down on the ground. And
as I'm trying to do that. My

631
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:45.280
senior eighteen delta, the senior senior
I was talking about, he had like

632
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:52.320
five combat deployments. She just dude, what he absolutely crazy. He would

633
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:54.760
love run. He loved to run
towards bill bullets. Right, he comes

634
00:46:54.920 --> 00:47:00.400
springing up past me full speed,
running straight at this this near ambush and

635
00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:04.920
yells at me as he comes by, like, hey, we gotta go

636
00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:08.800
man. Yeah, And so we
realized like that it's there. The Afghans

637
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:12.519
aren't going to do anything. This
is too crazy. It's just four SF

638
00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:17.559
guys that basically have to eliminate this
threat. So my teammates, Yeah,

639
00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:21.760
they're up front, they're throwing grenades. I see the guy right next to

640
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:23.239
me here in the doorway. He
gets shot and goes down. At first,

641
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:28.119
I don't know if it's one of
my buddies or not, because my

642
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:30.320
teammate was right by him as well, And so I run over, grab

643
00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:34.320
him, drag him out of the
way, realize it's an Afghan, so

644
00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:37.760
sort of throw him off to the
side, tell my EXO, hey put

645
00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:43.079
tourniquets on him, which funny story
about that, or so we brought out

646
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:45.800
the company XO. He wasn't a
special Force. This guy, we just

647
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:49.679
brought him out so he could get
a you know, a combat operation,

648
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:54.360
his first, his first ever time
out on a mission. And five minutes

649
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:57.840
into the objective, we're in the
near ambush and you know, he's getting

650
00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:04.000
bodies thrown out and his eyes are
that big, you know. But so

651
00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:06.840
yeah, you know, my teammates
were still throwing grenades, the firing is

652
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:12.559
going on. At some point,
my eighteen bravo, he is now racking

653
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:15.559
in another two hundred round drum,
still on fullato, and sprang in the

654
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:22.360
doorway that somehow, at some point
we had killed enough guys through you know,

655
00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:25.199
firing in the doorway, throwing grenades, all that type of different stuff,

656
00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:30.119
throwing grenades into the bunker that they
were firing out of that I think

657
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:36.599
we killed six that way. That
the last four panicked and they ran out

658
00:48:36.679 --> 00:48:39.840
the back of the compound. So
it's sort of it started to die down,

659
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:45.480
and then our CCT told us,
hey, we have you got four

660
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:47.519
guys fleeing out the back. He
didn't, and so we didn't know if

661
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:51.760
they're riding maneuver on us or whatnot. So the AC one thirty says,

662
00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:54.280
hey, we're gonna strike these guys, and so with one of five rounds

663
00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:59.119
and there's forty meters away from us, you know, so it's everybody run

664
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:02.559
up, dive behind the compound walls
as they've strike a couple different times,

665
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:07.760
and so that all starts to die
down and we realize, okay, we've

666
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:13.119
we've eliminated everything here. We call
in metabas, you know, we start

667
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:17.039
meta back and our guys that had
been shot, and you know, that's

668
00:49:17.239 --> 00:49:21.599
we're like, okay, we're ten
minutes into the operation. We still have

669
00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:27.840
to conduct this operation. We still
have to hit this this compound, and

670
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:32.480
there's still you know, another even
worse near ambush further on in this operation.

671
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:38.920
So, because we had in filled
on two different elements, our second

672
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:44.360
helicopter was supposed to land in that
open field in front of that building,

673
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:51.760
and for whatever reason, the pilot
screwed up and overflew the airfield and landed

674
00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:54.280
three hundreds passed it, and had
he not, he would have landed that

675
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:59.880
stage forty seven ten meters in front
of all of that, which would have

676
00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:05.639
be and you know, immediate catastrophe. Just by the stroke of God that

677
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:09.960
we didn't have a page forty seven
with forty guys just immediately shot down on

678
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:15.199
them. Yeah, I was wondering
because when you describe the field with the

679
00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:19.920
compound, but it was an old
compound and it sort of led to,

680
00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:27.880
you know, to the stronghold if
almost that if almost like the tactical leaders

681
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:30.559
of the Taliband were like, if
they sat down, they'll set down in

682
00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:36.639
this field and this is where you'll
hit them. I mean, you know,

683
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.159
they didn't have ten guys in there
for no reason and built that into

684
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:45.159
a giant DFP for no reason.
So I think, you know, because

685
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.800
they don't do that just everywhere,
right, and we didn't expect that at

686
00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:52.480
all. So I think, you
know, it kind of made sense because

687
00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:54.320
it was that that was the only
place that we could figure out where we

688
00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:59.519
could land based off of the terrain, and then they had you know,

689
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:04.519
this huge defensive fighting force ready for
us right there where you know, we

690
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:07.559
we decided was the best place to
land. So, so how was this

691
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:13.880
compound set up that because you you
mentioned the walls and then the doorways like

692
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:19.159
the opening to the compound, did
they have elevated positions too or were they

693
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:23.960
mostly shooting through the doorway. So
the way it worked. There's you know,

694
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:29.840
you're big like eight eight foot compound
mud walls with big doorways in between.

695
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:32.159
There was a few of those.
They also had sort of a bunker

696
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:40.639
built that was raised sort of out
front of the walls. And then and

697
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:45.960
then and then buildings sort of drop
set about five feet back from the compound

698
00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:52.559
walls that they were back off set
in those buildings basically taking shots out from

699
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:55.480
the buildings through doorways, through secondary
doorways. Does that makes sense? Wow,

700
00:51:55.519 --> 00:52:00.199
it was a good set up.
Yeah, so they yeah, they

701
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:05.480
were, they were ready for us
for sure. But then yeah, and

702
00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:08.039
then I can go into uh,
you know, further into the operation where

703
00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:13.039
the second year ambush has absolutely please
so so uh so, how do you

704
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:16.199
guys consolidate? Does does the second
team move to the compound or do you

705
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:22.880
guys move to them? So at
this point, now they're way because they

706
00:52:22.039 --> 00:52:27.280
overflew us about three hundred meters.
They're towards the objective and they basically got

707
00:52:27.320 --> 00:52:30.440
off and they and they kept moving, so the front element now is probably

708
00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:35.960
like seven eight hundred meters ahead of
us. They're just trucking towards the objective.

709
00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:38.760
So we you know, we get
our guys met have backed out,

710
00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:43.320
I get everybody back together. We
end up bipping the DFB, you know,

711
00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:45.840
blowing it up so they can't use
it anymore, and then we pretty

712
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:49.760
much just high tail it out into
you know, the open field, and

713
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:54.599
now we're you know, going full
speed bypassing everything to try to catch up

714
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:59.920
to our front ELP. So that's
that's sort of how how we're doing.

715
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:04.880
So we so nothing much happens there
other than us, you know, moving

716
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:07.320
through the field about a thousand meters
And is the fun element? Are they

717
00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:13.920
moving because because basically now the targets
compromised, they know somebody's there, so

718
00:53:14.199 --> 00:53:16.480
are they just are they're moving out, trying to stay ahead of the trying

719
00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:21.280
to keep the like the tactical edge. Basically, yeah, for sure.

720
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:25.480
And you know, while this is
happening, we're there's all kinds of moving

721
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:30.920
and activity in the compounds. They're
approaching, and we have our air striking

722
00:53:30.440 --> 00:53:35.840
targets NonStop out in front of them, right, So they're moving to basically

723
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:39.960
bring a fight, as as our
air is prepping the objective there for them.

724
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:43.920
So we kind of have two different
things in two different places going on

725
00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:51.960
simultaneously and you know, once we
we also really because of the way at

726
00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:54.320
infield, they couldn't really come back
to help us anyway because they would have

727
00:53:54.440 --> 00:54:00.880
potentially been moving back towards us that
way. So they pretty much, you

728
00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:05.079
know, decided maybe the team start
and made the decision, Hey, to

729
00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:08.039
keep going. We're gonna keep going. You guys obviously are okay, and

730
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:13.159
you and you guys will catch up
with us once you get that situation figured

731
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:17.559
out. Yeah. But yeah,
So then, so we had basically moved

732
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:24.159
through that open field, and our
front element had gotten to a compound probably

733
00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:30.239
about fifty meters away from the final
objective, and we had pretty much caught

734
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:35.360
up to them, and we're basically
a compound back from them. That we

735
00:54:35.719 --> 00:54:38.760
got into a compound, we decided
to sort of take a tactical pause,

736
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:47.000
and then we started getting chatter on
the turp phones and is SR that there

737
00:54:47.079 --> 00:54:51.679
was another compound right next to us, basically in between us and the front

738
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:54.719
element. That there was chatter that
they were gonna they were setting up another

739
00:54:54.880 --> 00:55:00.800
ambush for us to walk through in
between the compounds. So me and the

740
00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:02.440
commander made the decision, Hey,
we're gonna stand by for a second.

741
00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:07.360
We're gonna have the apaches level this
compound with hell fire rockets so that we

742
00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:10.800
can move up and support the front
element, right, so that we don't

743
00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:15.639
get ambushed again. Because at this
point we've taken a bunch of casualties,

744
00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:20.039
we can't really afford for something like
that to happen. So as we're prepping

745
00:55:20.079 --> 00:55:22.920
that strike for that to happen,
all of a sudden and I'm sitting in

746
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:29.159
the compound sort of We've been moving
east this entire time, and I'm looking

747
00:55:29.159 --> 00:55:31.880
at the compound wall towards you know, our lead element is. Yeah,

748
00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:36.079
I know, they're in front of
me, on the other side of this

749
00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:38.800
compound wall. And again, out
of a nowhere boom, all hell breaks

750
00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:43.039
loose machine gun fire. We can
I can see the tracers of machine gun

751
00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:46.480
fire flying over the top of the
compound walls towards us. So we know,

752
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:51.400
we can't tell exactly what's happening,
but we know, oh shit,

753
00:55:51.679 --> 00:55:57.039
our front element is right here where
all this is going on. And so

754
00:55:57.320 --> 00:56:00.760
I again, I didn't see this
with my eyes because we couldn't get up

755
00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:04.719
to actually fee over the top of
the compound wall. So this comes from

756
00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:07.599
obviously my buddies and their valleward citations
and everything of what happens here. But

757
00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:13.280
so as we're waiting for the strike
to come in, they were moving around

758
00:56:13.400 --> 00:56:19.119
a compound sort of into a hallway
between two compounds, and then as they

759
00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:23.559
got into this hallway they basically got
ambushed again. Except for them, they

760
00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:28.239
had the Taliban. We're ready and
we're throwing grenades over the top of the

761
00:56:28.360 --> 00:56:31.679
walls down into the hallway that they
were all in. So three of my

762
00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:36.440
teammates who are in that hallway,
they all one of the grenades lands between

763
00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:42.199
my eighteen Charlie's feet, I mean
literally between his feet, blows up,

764
00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:46.760
blows his pants off, I mean
completely fucks him up. The guy behind

765
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:51.840
him, all three of them get
blasted by grenades. The Afghans get blasted.

766
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:54.719
And then at the end of the
hallway after they did this, they

767
00:56:54.800 --> 00:57:00.679
had a PKM set up, so
it was yeah, it was just fatal

768
00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:05.880
funnel shred machine gun grenades coming over
the top of guys. It's just about

769
00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:08.400
as worse situation as you can get
to. The two of the s F

770
00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:15.840
guys were completely basically blown off the
off out of the hallway into this colvert

771
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:20.280
ditch and a bunch of the Afghans
got shredded, and it was basically our

772
00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:23.360
eighteen delta and who had just been
hit by the grenade, mind you,

773
00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:28.519
and the Afghan team leader who had
been shot in the face, were the

774
00:57:28.840 --> 00:57:32.719
only two guys coherent enough to keep
fighting, and they somehow fought through this

775
00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:37.360
hallway and killed the dude at the
end of the hallway with the PKM and

776
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:43.679
eliminated that and our eighteen delta then
drug out obviously the two SF guys first

777
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:47.920
got down behind cover, went back
drug out all the Afghans, and then

778
00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:53.360
he ended up obviously treating all those
dudes as we all then got back together.

779
00:57:53.480 --> 00:58:00.000
And at that point we had taken
so many casualties that we got forced

780
00:58:00.039 --> 00:58:06.760
off the X. I mean,
we hit our we had our brain fart

781
00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:10.159
what you call it when you take
too many casualties anyway, like the mission

782
00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:13.920
credit. Yeah, yeah, you
know what I'm talking about. Yeah,

783
00:58:14.199 --> 00:58:17.440
so much of your fighting force is
now incapacitated that you have to move off

784
00:58:17.480 --> 00:58:22.760
the objective. And we had to
emergency infill because we had taken so many,

785
00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:29.000
so many casualties, and that just
turned into a big casovac. You

786
00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:32.840
know, up to an open field
that we could get the helicopters into to

787
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:37.400
get all our guys out, you
know, shot and blowing up and all

788
00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:42.039
of the stens when you guys are
making this infill or this when you guys

789
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:45.920
are actually doing the sex fill,
Like, are you still receiving fire or

790
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:51.000
is the air suppressing that? Pretty
well? No, so yeah, so

791
00:58:51.159 --> 00:58:53.519
at this point, the air and
again we had an AC one thirty on

792
00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:58.079
station. We had two A tens, two F fifteens, two apaches.

793
00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:01.960
So this at this point, you
know, because you get you get everything

794
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:06.079
sent to you when you're in this
tainous of a firefight. You know how

795
00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:08.079
that works, right, So at
this point we had every asset available in

796
00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:13.280
the entire area above us. And
yeah, they just air once once they

797
00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:16.400
realized we had taken and they're watching
this happen as well, you know that

798
00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:21.880
we had taken so much, so
many casualties and so much damage. They

799
00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:27.239
just started leveling basically that entire compound
in defense of friendlies, which allowed us

800
00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:31.280
to basically pull everybody off the X. And yeah, they basically had their

801
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:35.760
heads completely suppressed down to where those
guys, you know, they're not popping

802
00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:37.840
out to try to shoot us at
that point, there's so much hair watching

803
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:44.519
them. One of the things you
mentioned earlier was that the rules of engagement

804
00:59:44.639 --> 00:59:47.760
had changed just before you guys went
in. What had they done and how

805
00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:53.039
did they change for you guys.
Yeah, so there were two different rows

806
00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:57.320
for us, depending on whether you
were Talban or ISIS. Right, the

807
00:59:58.559 --> 01:00:01.719
way it had worked, it got
worked for For ISIS it was kill on

808
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:07.760
site, sort of that Fallujah style
military age mail. If you'r ISIS,

809
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:09.480
you're getting shot in the face,
even if you're on the toilet unarmed,

810
01:00:10.119 --> 01:00:16.880
doesn't matter. For the Taliban,
it was now basically imminent danger and hostile

811
01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:22.400
intent, right, which you know
how that works, right, So basically

812
01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:24.440
you're out at night and you're doing
sketchy stuff, even if you're not armed,

813
01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:28.119
if you're moving in the middle of
the night to maybe go and place

814
01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:30.440
an ID or whatnot, you can
be considered a threat. So that's what

815
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:37.079
that's what we the ROE changed too. And you know before that it was,

816
01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:40.400
you know, especially in the Obama
era, it had gotten to the

817
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:46.719
point of basically you had to receive
fire before you could even engage a target,

818
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:51.639
even if you were watching Taliban maneuver
on your position, weren't allowed to

819
01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:55.559
engage until you actually received fire.
So sort of went from that too,

820
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.519
you know, taking the chains off
the dog. And you know, if

821
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:05.960
you're there doing dumb stuff in an
area you shouldn't be, you're probably not

822
01:01:06.039 --> 01:01:07.639
going to make it out well.
And you know, because you had mentioned

823
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:13.320
like the AC one thirty taken out
the maneuver element that had you know,

824
01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:17.039
flood the compound and yeah, and
you know that was that was a discussion

825
01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:21.679
for a very long time. Are
they squirters because you can't shoot squirters,

826
01:01:21.719 --> 01:01:24.519
You can't shoot somebody running away.
But so many times these people were running

827
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:30.360
to better positions, they were running
to cashes exactly, and they were minis.

828
01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:36.079
Yeah, that's and that's how that
was framed. Framed is that they

829
01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:38.400
had just ambushed us, and now
they were moving to a position of tackle

830
01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:43.360
advantage. Right, So the AC
one thirty is allowed to strike in defensive

831
01:01:43.400 --> 01:01:47.599
friendlies because of that, correct,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it gets

832
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:51.320
complicated. And obviously, you know, when you go into a place like

833
01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:55.159
Afghanistan where you're fighting side by side
with you know, with the host nation

834
01:01:55.320 --> 01:02:00.960
force, you know, precautionousne to
be taken like you don't want to harm

835
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:06.639
innocent people for sure, but you
know, the Taliban was very good at

836
01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:10.800
using those rules against us. Yeah, you know. And uh and we

837
01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:16.320
saw some growth things on our deppointment, Right, we had a a a

838
01:02:16.519 --> 01:02:21.280
young child killed that was trapped to
the chest of a Taliban inserted, right,

839
01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:24.679
using them as as body armor.
Right, So stuff like that is,

840
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:30.960
you know, is a reality.
So you know, I that's some

841
01:02:31.039 --> 01:02:35.599
of the harder stuff you see.
But but you're right, you know,

842
01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:39.639
But so what was your You mentioned
the M forty eight earlier, that your

843
01:02:39.679 --> 01:02:43.639
Bravo had the M forty eight,
which I I'm not I've never used.

844
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:47.280
I assume it replaced the M sixty
Is that right or didn't replace the Mark

845
01:02:47.360 --> 01:02:52.360
forty eight. Mark forty eight is
basically a saw that shoots a seven to

846
01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:54.559
sixty two round Okay, that makes
sense. Yeah, that's the stow con

847
01:02:54.679 --> 01:03:01.039
variant of the saw. It's sort
of a uh seven six two machine gun

848
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:05.239
that you can one man carry and
it has a two hundred round drum that

849
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:07.639
you slide in like a saw so
that you don't need multiple people to shoot.

850
01:03:07.719 --> 01:03:12.880
So it gives you that extra firepower
that a saw doesn't have because of

851
01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:16.800
shooting five five six, but still
in a one man carry. And then

852
01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:20.719
for you guys, for the guys
who weren't the weapons guys, like what

853
01:03:20.840 --> 01:03:24.199
were you carrying? So I carried
the Mark forty eight a lot, actually

854
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:30.360
when not so when I was an
element leader, you know, your whole

855
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:32.159
focus is running the elements and the
team leader and all that, I would

856
01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:37.599
carry an M four with maybe a
three twenty grenade launcher or something like that

857
01:03:38.199 --> 01:03:43.079
we actually carried. We ended up
by the end of the deployment switching our

858
01:03:43.159 --> 01:03:46.119
load out to carry just a ton
of grenades, so we would carry six

859
01:03:46.199 --> 01:03:50.880
seven grenades per guy, just because
as if we just talked about that was

860
01:03:50.920 --> 01:03:54.679
the type of fighting we were getting
into in these compounds, sort of that

861
01:03:54.719 --> 01:03:59.760
grenade battle type of stuff, or
bunkers, all kinds of stuff like that.

862
01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:05.400
When I when my other teammate who
we typically worked together, either I

863
01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:10.719
was element leader or he was the
other one of us who wasn't at the

864
01:04:10.760 --> 01:04:14.639
time, would carry the Mark forty
eight so that we would have that firepower.

865
01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:16.599
And you usually have two, right, you would have one on each

866
01:04:16.639 --> 01:04:21.639
of the elements, so that each
element had a seven six two machine gun.

867
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:26.679
So that's sort of how that would
work. Now, were you guys

868
01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:30.760
carrying like standard grenades, were you
carrying the minis? Were you carrying thermobarics?

869
01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:33.360
Like what? Oh? Yeah,
yeah, so we would Cary,

870
01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:39.599
I would usually carry because we had
there were so much bunkers and you're doing

871
01:04:39.639 --> 01:04:45.280
and a ruse gone and kanahar and
I'm sure we'll get into another story that

872
01:04:45.360 --> 01:04:49.760
involved this is massive bunker field type
of stuff we got into. So we

873
01:04:49.840 --> 01:04:55.239
would carry a couple of thermobarics for
sure, because we could just clap collapse

874
01:04:55.360 --> 01:04:59.000
dfps so easily, and these tunnels
that they were using. Yeah, so

875
01:04:59.119 --> 01:05:02.199
yeah, I would usually I'd usually
carry two thermobarics, maybe four or five

876
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:06.280
reader grenades and then maybe one in
senior grenade if I need to, you

877
01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:11.039
know, make it easy to burn
all the drugs, because we would find

878
01:05:11.119 --> 01:05:15.559
even though we weren't doing specifically drug
stuff, we would still find you know,

879
01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:20.000
like three four hundred pounds of heroin
and operation you know, like ten

880
01:05:20.119 --> 01:05:24.840
twenty bags of of twenty pounds heroin, you know, and it just makes

881
01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:29.559
it easy to yeah, yeah,
the black tar stuff, but it just

882
01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:31.119
made it easy just to burn all
that stuff, really easily. So yeah,

883
01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:34.800
that's how sort of how that?
Yeah, grenade loaner. Yeah,

884
01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:41.159
uh do you remember your first time
using a thermomeric or somebody like, well

885
01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:45.159
do Yeah, I got a great
story about that. Please. So my

886
01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:49.239
eighteen delta who who again? Guy
I worked with the longest as a team

887
01:05:49.639 --> 01:05:54.880
a team guy, and then I
ended up he took a team starting slot

888
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:58.679
in Okinawa, and I end up
I ended up going and traveling to be

889
01:05:58.800 --> 01:06:00.360
on his team as a one of
his team guys. Is he was a

890
01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:05.719
team starting So anyway, we were, we were moving together doing some stuff,

891
01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:10.679
and again we found this bunker system
that we're going to collapse. First

892
01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:13.880
time I've been around a therb of
barrack, right, He's like, oh,

893
01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:15.719
I'm gonna throw this in this bunker, right, So he throws it

894
01:06:15.800 --> 01:06:19.639
in the bunker and he takes off
running and I look over my shoulder like

895
01:06:19.679 --> 01:06:24.519
what is he doing? You know? And it goes off and I'm standing

896
01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:27.239
way too close and it ends up
my lip right here. It'd been a

897
01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:29.800
little bit chapped, you know,
in the center of your lip gets chapped,

898
01:06:30.159 --> 01:06:32.679
and it blew my lip apart,
ripped my whole lip apart, from

899
01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:35.119
the over pressure of it, you
know, and I was like, oh

900
01:06:35.239 --> 01:06:39.599
my god, you know, you
get your face blasted back. So that

901
01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:43.440
was my That was my introduction into
what a therb of America dated. So

902
01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:46.239
after that, it was like throwing
and run as fast as possible. Yeah

903
01:06:46.280 --> 01:06:54.320
they're yeah, they're they're effective.
They're they're heavy, but they're effective.

904
01:06:55.039 --> 01:07:00.679
Yeah for sure. So okay,
uh yeah, so like what so after

905
01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:04.960
so you guys X fill this target, you get back? Yeah, how

906
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:09.239
are the guys on your team because
it sounds like someone got rode ard and

907
01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:15.760
put away wet. Yeah, so
are my eighteen Charlie the one he took

908
01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:21.800
the brunt of it right, so
amazingly the grenade that hit him again,

909
01:07:21.880 --> 01:07:27.079
it was like basically blew his pants
off, you know, it's his whole

910
01:07:27.159 --> 01:07:32.519
face was you know, pressure eyes
burned everything like that all the way up

911
01:07:32.519 --> 01:07:39.440
his body. He took zero shrap, which no idea how because the guys

912
01:07:39.519 --> 01:07:42.800
behind him ate all the shrapnel for
some reason, who knows, you know,

913
01:07:42.920 --> 01:07:45.679
the grenades are weird like that.
He was massive, massive TBI,

914
01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:54.960
massive concussion for a while and he
ended up having to go to the senior

915
01:07:55.039 --> 01:07:59.519
leader course like three days later he
got pulled out of Afghanistan to go to

916
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:03.280
for us. That's how you become
an E seven. It's more important than

917
01:08:03.280 --> 01:08:08.960
a combat operation, I guess.
So he basically massive TBI trying to fly

918
01:08:09.519 --> 01:08:13.199
go to this course. He basically
told us he had no idea what was

919
01:08:13.239 --> 01:08:15.600
going on. Instructors just gave him
a pass because he was so messed up.

920
01:08:16.760 --> 01:08:21.840
And then my senior eighteen Echo took
a bunch of shrapnel through his arms,

921
01:08:23.800 --> 01:08:27.119
but he ended up being okay.
And then our eighteen Delta who got

922
01:08:27.159 --> 01:08:29.760
the Silver Star, which, honestly, I tell you that story, he

923
01:08:29.840 --> 01:08:33.159
promised you have the Middle of Honor
because all those dudes would be dead if

924
01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:39.760
he wasn't able to do what he
did, which pretty much all the hoour

925
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:45.279
awards on that mission were downgraded one, even his, so because the general

926
01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:48.439
decided NCOs shouldn't have that high of
hour awards, right, and the EXO

927
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:50.880
that was with you didn't get one, so why should you, guys?

928
01:08:53.039 --> 01:08:56.960
Yeah, so, but and then
he took a bunch of shrapnel in his

929
01:08:57.039 --> 01:09:00.880
hand, And the worst part about
him taking all the shrapnel his hands is

930
01:09:00.039 --> 01:09:06.039
he was basically inside of the guts
of these Afghans sewing them up and doing

931
01:09:06.119 --> 01:09:11.600
stuff with bare hands, shredded apart, right, so he had to deal

932
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:14.840
with all the medications and all that
stuff to make sure he was okay.

933
01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:19.560
But of all of that that happened, I think we took fourteen fifteen casualties,

934
01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:23.119
you know, guys being shot in
the face and the stomach and the

935
01:09:23.239 --> 01:09:28.960
chests and blown up. No one
died on that mission, but now they

936
01:09:29.159 --> 01:09:31.159
now they might have later the Afghans. I don't know, right, because

937
01:09:31.159 --> 01:09:35.119
that's a lot of nasty damage.
But but up front, yeah, nobody

938
01:09:35.199 --> 01:09:39.920
died. And I think we killed
fifty eight Talban on that mission, so

939
01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:44.159
you know, we got pushed off
the objective, so it wasn't a necessarily

940
01:09:44.359 --> 01:09:48.800
success, but the fact nobody died
was was was good. Yeah, I

941
01:09:48.880 --> 01:09:51.760
mean you got pushed off the objective, but you still like killed fifty eight

942
01:09:53.319 --> 01:09:57.640
it was fifty yeah, yeah,
you know zero fifty yeah, and that

943
01:09:57.840 --> 01:10:00.800
was that was definite and you could
you know the at that they were willing

944
01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:03.199
to fight us that crazy, that
hard. Let us know that that was

945
01:10:03.319 --> 01:10:08.960
there was important, important people in
that area. So we definitely did a

946
01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:15.479
lot of damage to to a high
profile area for sure, do you know

947
01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:18.680
was it was it Afghan SF or
Afghan commanders that were with you that night?

948
01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:25.800
Afghan FF. That was the thing
is those guys typically and I watched

949
01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:29.640
them do some crazy stuff later in
the employments, but even they and that's

950
01:10:29.680 --> 01:10:32.399
it shire situation. We're like,
no, wait man, we're not We're

951
01:10:32.439 --> 01:10:38.560
not moving. We're gonna lay down
and shoot into the darkness. So but

952
01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:45.600
but you know, it's one of
those things where again I had had you

953
01:10:45.640 --> 01:10:49.039
know, for me, had I
not add, you know, my my

954
01:10:49.159 --> 01:10:56.840
senior delta just basically sprinting straight into
a near ambush into gunfire, I might

955
01:10:56.920 --> 01:10:59.880
not realize what to do either,
right, So, because it was just

956
01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:03.479
such a heinous, crazy thing out
of nowhere that having a guy like that

957
01:11:03.800 --> 01:11:09.199
had four or five combat amployments with
been in so many crazy things and Hellman

958
01:11:09.319 --> 01:11:15.119
and Moosa Klay and all these insane
stories that having him there was huge,

959
01:11:15.279 --> 01:11:19.079
right for the rest of us on
the team, the other SF guys,

960
01:11:19.159 --> 01:11:23.199
to know, Okay, we can
do this, right, we can eliminate

961
01:11:23.239 --> 01:11:25.680
the threat. We all we gotta
do is move and do the things that

962
01:11:25.720 --> 01:11:30.159
we're trained to do. Yeah,
Which that that sort of gets into that

963
01:11:30.439 --> 01:11:35.239
how important that war experience is and
why I'm a little bit worried about us

964
01:11:35.359 --> 01:11:40.159
going away from from war and combat
and what that's going to look like for

965
01:11:40.319 --> 01:11:45.239
the future generations, because it's such
a massive thing and actual combat to have

966
01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:47.600
guys like that, Yeah, when
you're a new guy, for sure.

967
01:11:48.359 --> 01:11:53.600
And the thing is is, battle
drills aren't fun to do. And and

968
01:11:53.800 --> 01:11:57.239
I think a lot of guys like
it's just human nature that when we're doing

969
01:11:57.279 --> 01:12:00.319
battle drills, like we check out
after a while, We just go through

970
01:12:00.319 --> 01:12:03.159
the motions. But like you're talking
about a near ambush getting off the X

971
01:12:03.439 --> 01:12:10.479
is Yep, it's vital. And
yet you know, and and you know,

972
01:12:12.439 --> 01:12:16.239
to speak to what you were doing, you were trying to help out

973
01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:21.319
the the Afghans, like you were
trying to get them off the X two.

974
01:12:23.359 --> 01:12:26.600
Yeah. But yeah, and it's
one of those like you say,

975
01:12:26.640 --> 01:12:30.199
it's just one of those things that
it always degrades. Like we went from

976
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:33.720
Vietnam and it and it took a
long time to relearn all the lessons that

977
01:12:35.079 --> 01:12:42.039
that guys like your dad like instinctively
did. Yeah, And you know,

978
01:12:42.239 --> 01:12:48.920
it's it's interesting you say that because
I had the immediate response to do those

979
01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:53.279
things that we do through training.
Right. My immediate response was, Okay,

980
01:12:53.560 --> 01:12:56.000
we have to maneuver right, right, have to maneuver on this.

981
01:12:57.640 --> 01:13:00.720
We were able to. But it's
thing that you say that is, once

982
01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:03.479
that degraded, it was sort of
what do we what do I do?

983
01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:08.359
Right? Like these guys won't move
right, and it's a guy with all

984
01:13:08.399 --> 01:13:13.199
this experience that you know is the
one that kind of snaps into your head

985
01:13:13.199 --> 01:13:15.239
of like, oh shit, okay, we've got to do this. Yeah

986
01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:18.880
that you can't really train for those
type of things. Yeah, you kind

987
01:13:18.880 --> 01:13:25.600
of just have to gain that experience
through actual time, yeah. Fights.

988
01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:30.039
Yeah, And it's interesting you mentioned
how the afghansf Like, you know,

989
01:13:30.560 --> 01:13:34.680
my experience with both Afghan Afghans and
Iraqis is if you're train them for CQUB,

990
01:13:35.399 --> 01:13:41.880
they're good at doing CQB. But
if if a problem arises during that

991
01:13:42.079 --> 01:13:46.680
time, if it's something that they
haven't necessarily trained for or have down,

992
01:13:47.319 --> 01:13:50.279
they a lot of times they didn't
have that sort of that lateral thinking,

993
01:13:50.760 --> 01:13:56.039
so they would vapor Like it's interesting
you say that because, again, like

994
01:13:56.079 --> 01:14:00.039
I said earlier, I watched some
of these guys do really impressive stuff on

995
01:14:00.159 --> 01:14:02.760
missions later. But it makes sense
because that is they were doing things that

996
01:14:02.840 --> 01:14:08.880
they were very proficient at when they
did it, whereas a situation like that

997
01:14:10.239 --> 01:14:15.520
is definitely not something that that anyone
really trains for. So the fact that

998
01:14:15.600 --> 01:14:18.800
they sort of just shut down kind
of is exactly what we're talking about there.

999
01:14:18.920 --> 01:14:21.880
Yeah, yeah, no, it
just reminds me of, you know,

1000
01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:27.279
the the old idea that if you
if you take the prone in a

1001
01:14:27.359 --> 01:14:30.239
near ambush, you'll never get up. Oh yeah, no for sure.

1002
01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:32.800
And we were not in a position
of advantage, right, what are we

1003
01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:35.560
gonna do. Lay in that field
and we shoot it an open doorway like

1004
01:14:36.079 --> 01:14:41.279
this, We're gonna all die eventually
if we if we stay here and do

1005
01:14:41.399 --> 01:14:44.760
this. So so, how long
did it take your team to sort of

1006
01:14:45.640 --> 01:14:49.479
recuperate, uh, you know,
to to be able to be operational again.

1007
01:14:50.239 --> 01:14:58.680
Yeah. So, so two of
our teammates, our our eighteen Delta

1008
01:14:58.800 --> 01:15:00.920
was okay because he he had to
get his hands stitched up. He got

1009
01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:03.000
you know, his hands shredded a
little bit, but he was all right.

1010
01:15:03.079 --> 01:15:06.680
So he's he was continued to be
on the team in our operations.

1011
01:15:06.720 --> 01:15:11.800
But our eighteen Charlie and our eighteen
Echo were messed up to the point where

1012
01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:15.680
they were out for a couple of
months, I think. And then we

1013
01:15:15.800 --> 01:15:20.880
actually plussed up guys through the company, so the B team and from other

1014
01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:25.920
teams that weren't doing as much,
we were able to, you know,

1015
01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:29.479
get s F guys from different odias
in the company to come out on operations

1016
01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:33.399
with us to help us sort of
plus up those numbers while while our teammates

1017
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:39.560
were out for injuries. Now you
said you your exo wasn't SF. Did

1018
01:15:39.640 --> 01:15:44.119
your exo go out on any more
ops after that? No? He is

1019
01:15:44.239 --> 01:15:46.439
now, he is now. He
so he went to the Q course you

1020
01:15:46.520 --> 01:15:48.680
know after, you know, years
later, and he made it through.

1021
01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:53.399
And he's agreeing right now. But
yeah, I think he might. I

1022
01:15:53.479 --> 01:15:55.760
think he might have come out on
a few ter that. Oh, I

1023
01:15:55.880 --> 01:15:59.439
gotta tell you the funny, funny
story about that. That brings me back.

1024
01:15:59.520 --> 01:16:04.079
So so the Afghan, the Afghan
that I dragged him throw in front

1025
01:16:04.119 --> 01:16:09.199
of him, and he had been
shot through and through through the bicep a

1026
01:16:09.199 --> 01:16:13.880
couple of times here and here,
and our exo had thrown tourniquets on him,

1027
01:16:13.960 --> 01:16:17.159
you know, And so I run
back over after everything's calmed down,

1028
01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:24.279
to check on the guy real quick, and he's this Afghan had laying there

1029
01:16:25.119 --> 01:16:28.439
on the ground on his back,
and he's got two of his buddies staring

1030
01:16:28.479 --> 01:16:30.319
down on the ground. And I
look at him and his tourniquets are all

1031
01:16:30.439 --> 01:16:34.760
off and he's just bleeding out to
death on the ground and I'm like,

1032
01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:39.680
what are you guys doing? Why
are his tourniquets off? And the Afghans

1033
01:16:39.720 --> 01:16:42.039
are like, oh, they they're
hurting him too bad. So we took

1034
01:16:42.079 --> 01:16:45.960
him off, you know, so
we throw you know, I grabbed the

1035
01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:47.680
tourniquets and I throw him back on
and I run over and grab my eighteen

1036
01:16:47.720 --> 01:16:49.800
Delta and I'm like, can get
over here and check on this guy and

1037
01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:53.479
make sure he's not dead. His
buddy's almost killed him, you know.

1038
01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:58.000
But just you know, as heinous
as that whole thing was, just I

1039
01:16:58.079 --> 01:17:02.079
remember even laughing in the moment,
like, wow, you guys are yeah,

1040
01:17:02.720 --> 01:17:06.199
that is dumb, right, you
know, But but anyway, it's

1041
01:17:06.239 --> 01:17:10.960
a testament to your ext So though
that he went out there and it was

1042
01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:15.720
just a taste and like it led
him on. Yeah, oh yeah,

1043
01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:17.920
for sure. Yeah he was a
good dude. But again, just the

1044
01:17:18.039 --> 01:17:21.680
fact that uh, you know that's
your first yeah, yeah, your first

1045
01:17:21.760 --> 01:17:27.359
operation just immediately in the ship as
you would say, you know, yeah,

1046
01:17:28.159 --> 01:17:31.800
So so you guys get plushed up, like how long is it before

1047
01:17:32.039 --> 01:17:36.560
you get you're back out again your
next mission. I think after that one,

1048
01:17:36.920 --> 01:17:41.800
I think we waited a couple of
weeks. I think that definitely slowed

1049
01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:45.439
us down a little bit as we
uh sort of were making sure guys were

1050
01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:49.760
okay and and we figuring out that
whole thing. But I think it was

1051
01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:54.840
a couple of weeks and then we
were back at and back out on operations.

1052
01:17:56.239 --> 01:18:00.560
So when that long, you might
not have any like essay of this,

1053
01:18:00.880 --> 01:18:04.800
but you know, if they sign
a follow on after that compound knowing

1054
01:18:04.920 --> 01:18:12.640
that it was probably something important or
into that area, I don't. So

1055
01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:17.800
we continue to operate through there quite
a bit for the rest of for the

1056
01:18:17.880 --> 01:18:23.199
rest of the trip. But yeah, we didn't go back. We didn't

1057
01:18:23.199 --> 01:18:28.079
go back in there exclusively. I
think we kind of got our tail but

1058
01:18:28.199 --> 01:18:30.600
between our legs a little bit,
and it was just a nasty area.

1059
01:18:30.680 --> 01:18:34.359
Again, train wise, it just
wasn't any good way to get in there.

1060
01:18:35.159 --> 01:18:39.800
So it was one of those things
where you had to in fill offset

1061
01:18:39.920 --> 01:18:45.600
and walk to there, and they
were obviously ready and they weren't going to

1062
01:18:45.640 --> 01:18:47.239
give that up. So yeah,
it kind of is one of those things

1063
01:18:47.279 --> 01:18:49.960
if like we don't really know what
is in there, so is it really

1064
01:18:50.039 --> 01:18:56.560
worth us continuing to to go in
there or can we have effects, you

1065
01:18:56.640 --> 01:19:00.880
know, better effects further out in
the area. Yeah, Yeah, it's

1066
01:19:00.960 --> 01:19:02.479
kind of the I mean, once
they let you know, it's like put

1067
01:19:02.600 --> 01:19:08.079
in a marine company and put them
online and let them it's like yeah.

1068
01:19:08.079 --> 01:19:13.359
And again we had such as the
bulk of our battalion doing the Nangahar Valley

1069
01:19:13.399 --> 01:19:16.439
ices clearing operation during that time that
we didn't really have anything like that for

1070
01:19:16.640 --> 01:19:20.960
us to be able to get you
know, ful odias to actually take that

1071
01:19:21.079 --> 01:19:28.520
down. We were you guys or
other you know, like uh, sister

1072
01:19:28.680 --> 01:19:33.159
teams like were you guys? Were
you you were operating in larger than odias

1073
01:19:33.199 --> 01:19:40.359
at any point in time, So
we we didn't as a team, but

1074
01:19:40.640 --> 01:19:44.039
yes, a lot of our teams
were so Again that Nangahar Valley was an

1075
01:19:44.159 --> 01:19:47.359
entire company. I think they had
four or five odias that were clearing the

1076
01:19:47.439 --> 01:19:55.720
valley together. And then I think
our team in Hellman's and Pat worked together

1077
01:19:55.760 --> 01:20:00.319
a little bit because that Musa Kla
area was hellman, the entire war was

1078
01:20:00.359 --> 01:20:04.560
just such a nasty place that the
Taliban just never were willing to give that

1079
01:20:04.760 --> 01:20:09.720
up. Yeah, you know,
and it was such an integral part of

1080
01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:15.880
that drug trafficking road there through Helmand
that that was always a nasty place.

1081
01:20:15.960 --> 01:20:20.760
So our od eight didn't do multi
team clearing operations, but our company did

1082
01:20:20.840 --> 01:20:27.039
a lot of them out in raw
there was a Hurrat or we had a

1083
01:20:27.039 --> 01:20:30.880
couple of odia's working together. So
yeah, yeah, it's a normal thing.

1084
01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:34.680
But our team pretty much SUSI was
working by ourselves down south the Candahara

1085
01:20:34.760 --> 01:20:40.039
Roostone area. So what was your
next stop? Then out out out the

1086
01:20:40.119 --> 01:20:46.560
gate after that up Oh man,
if you remember, I know it all

1087
01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:49.119
bunds together at some point too,
Yeah, it does. You know.

1088
01:20:49.239 --> 01:20:55.960
There's there's so many that were sort
of generic nighttime raids were getting you know,

1089
01:20:56.119 --> 01:20:59.079
small gunfights here and there, the
air would strike. We killed ten

1090
01:20:59.199 --> 01:21:08.560
twenty guys clear through not really find
anything. The next most memorable one is

1091
01:21:08.920 --> 01:21:13.439
the one where our ODIA found the
largest cachet of himme ever found in Afghanistan,

1092
01:21:13.640 --> 01:21:16.560
which that's kind of a fun there's
no there's no gun fights involved in

1093
01:21:16.600 --> 01:21:20.760
this story, but it's kind of
a cool story for the fact of what

1094
01:21:20.840 --> 01:21:26.680
we accomplished and what we destroyed.
So I could go through that one,

1095
01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:30.720
but it's not as long, but
anical story and again we we we set

1096
01:21:30.760 --> 01:21:34.560
the record for that. So so
yeah, we had and again this was

1097
01:21:34.960 --> 01:21:39.439
I think in the Arous Gone area, so same sort of valley that I'm

1098
01:21:39.479 --> 01:21:45.399
talking about Terran Connerus Gone and all
sort of runs in the same area and

1099
01:21:45.800 --> 01:21:49.960
that that the prior mission took place
in. And for whatever reason, I

1100
01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:54.359
don't know how our intelligence are and
figured this out. Again he was incredible,

1101
01:21:55.520 --> 01:21:59.840
super and super smart dude. But
we decided to go and hit this

1102
01:22:00.119 --> 01:22:05.319
area because you know, it looks
like a an area of interest and it's

1103
01:22:05.359 --> 01:22:11.840
in the same area. And we
get in, we infill or maybe like

1104
01:22:11.920 --> 01:22:16.680
three off the first compound and the
very first building we get into, there's

1105
01:22:18.159 --> 01:22:21.920
we're first compound. There's one Afghan
there. Oh, let me backtrack.

1106
01:22:23.039 --> 01:22:29.600
So this area actually another ODIA had
been in a year prior to the to

1107
01:22:29.720 --> 01:22:33.239
this same compound. This is why
we went in and they had gotten this

1108
01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:36.760
massive blowout gunfight. The one sixty
had had to come in and they had

1109
01:22:36.800 --> 01:22:42.000
to be emergency X filled off.
So it was crazy area about a year

1110
01:22:42.039 --> 01:22:44.239
ago. So we figured, hey, we're gonna go in here too and

1111
01:22:44.560 --> 01:22:46.960
test our luck. So that's actually
how how we ended up going into this

1112
01:22:47.000 --> 01:22:53.000
spot. So we infil and worked
it. So now we're expecting to fight

1113
01:22:53.239 --> 01:22:58.319
because the prior Odia had gotten such
a ship show that, you know,

1114
01:22:58.479 --> 01:23:00.239
and we had just come off of, you know, the one we had

1115
01:23:00.279 --> 01:23:02.760
been in that it was like,
okay, we're going in. We're and

1116
01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:06.159
we're ready for a fight. And
the very first building we get to,

1117
01:23:06.439 --> 01:23:11.760
you know, a young Afghan maybe
sixteen seventeen years old, comes out.

1118
01:23:11.880 --> 01:23:16.239
He's like, yeah, there's Talban
here and they have all their stuff right

1119
01:23:16.319 --> 01:23:19.840
there in that building. And he's
like, and they have some right here

1120
01:23:19.920 --> 01:23:24.399
down next to the river. So
we're like, all right, walk us

1121
01:23:24.439 --> 01:23:27.039
over there to see it. And
we walk down and next to the river

1122
01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:31.319
there's like one hundred mortars buried in
and we're right off the right off the

1123
01:23:31.399 --> 01:23:35.239
helicopter and we're like, oh,
okay, so there's gonna be there's gonna

1124
01:23:35.239 --> 01:23:38.960
be some stuff in this area.
If there's this big of a cachet just

1125
01:23:39.239 --> 01:23:45.079
out in the middle of nowhere,
and so you know, he basically points

1126
01:23:45.159 --> 01:23:47.399
to the compound that we're planning on
hitting, you know, the big one

1127
01:23:47.439 --> 01:23:50.600
that we knew that the prior Odia
was trying to get into, and says,

1128
01:23:50.880 --> 01:23:55.960
yeah, this is where all the
Talban keep their stuck. And so

1129
01:23:56.119 --> 01:24:00.760
we start moving in and most of
the Talban fleed early right they heard the

1130
01:24:00.880 --> 01:24:04.439
aircraft coming, which was a very
typical thing. If they're not willing to

1131
01:24:04.479 --> 01:24:09.199
fight for what's there, they'll just
get on their most motorcycles and just bounce

1132
01:24:09.279 --> 01:24:15.880
once they hear the aircraft. So
we we pretty quickly just walk straight up

1133
01:24:15.960 --> 01:24:19.439
to the main compound. My element
again is the one there's we're split up,

1134
01:24:19.479 --> 01:24:24.119
but my element is the one that's
and I'm Element leader again on this

1135
01:24:24.239 --> 01:24:27.399
one. My element is the one
that's going to this compound. And so

1136
01:24:27.520 --> 01:24:31.119
we we pretty much freely get into
this compound no resistance. And it's a

1137
01:24:31.239 --> 01:24:36.600
big open compound maybe fifty meters by
fifty meters of open space with you know,

1138
01:24:36.760 --> 01:24:41.920
buildings around it, and you know, there's cars and stuff in the

1139
01:24:41.960 --> 01:24:44.760
middle of this compound and I'm not
thinking much of it, and we're like,

1140
01:24:45.119 --> 01:24:47.920
man, maybe there's really not that
much in here. And then all

1141
01:24:47.920 --> 01:24:51.479
of a sudden, my EOD tech
comes up on the radio and he was

1142
01:24:51.560 --> 01:24:55.399
like, hey, you need to
come look at this. And I'm like,

1143
01:24:55.560 --> 01:24:58.279
okay, you know what is it? And he's like, come over

1144
01:24:58.359 --> 01:25:02.039
here by this giant building. So
I walked. I walk over and he's

1145
01:25:02.079 --> 01:25:04.680
standing you know, just a normal
doorway and he's like, come and look

1146
01:25:04.720 --> 01:25:08.720
at this. And I go and
I look in the door and it's a

1147
01:25:08.840 --> 01:25:15.039
warehouse and it's from you know,
ground to ten feet tall of himme as

1148
01:25:15.319 --> 01:25:19.439
you know, one hundred feet wide, and it's like and if you're standing

1149
01:25:19.479 --> 01:25:21.560
next to it, like, okay, if this goes off, I'm literally

1150
01:25:23.000 --> 01:25:27.520
all of us they are going to
be vaporized instantly. So it's like,

1151
01:25:27.600 --> 01:25:30.399
oh, I really hope this isn't
rigged because all of us are going to

1152
01:25:30.520 --> 01:25:33.159
die immediately if there's somebody with a
claquer standing one hundred meters away, you

1153
01:25:33.239 --> 01:25:38.439
know, and it's you know,
I had seen large amount we had gone

1154
01:25:38.439 --> 01:25:41.800
through. We found tons of really
big cachets, but I mean nothing like

1155
01:25:41.920 --> 01:25:45.720
this. This was absolutely insane.
Again, it was the largest one ever

1156
01:25:45.800 --> 01:25:50.399
found by any US military and Afghanistan. So it was like a warehouse full

1157
01:25:50.479 --> 01:25:54.720
of bags of hime. And it
wasn't just him me, they had probably

1158
01:25:55.279 --> 01:25:59.920
hundreds of mortars and rockets and ammunition. I mean, it was massive,

1159
01:26:00.159 --> 01:26:04.279
massive stockpile. So we're like,
okay, well great, we're gonna blow

1160
01:26:04.359 --> 01:26:08.359
this up. So we call it
up to the fall, it up to

1161
01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:11.840
the Soda f and tell them what
we found. And well, as we're

1162
01:26:11.880 --> 01:26:14.920
doing this, we start looking in
the cars they're in here, and we're

1163
01:26:14.960 --> 01:26:16.439
looking in the car slashlight and we're
like, oh, that's a vbed.

1164
01:26:16.920 --> 01:26:21.000
Oh that's another vbed that these are
all rigged, and we're like, oh

1165
01:26:21.560 --> 01:26:27.640
shit, Like this compound is the
most like this is the most depth centered

1166
01:26:27.720 --> 01:26:31.760
place we could be for explosives in
Afghanistan. If something goes boom, you

1167
01:26:31.840 --> 01:26:36.479
know, you got fifty dead soldiers
instantly. So we call it up and

1168
01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:41.039
we're gonna you know, we're gonna
first try to get we first. They're

1169
01:26:41.039 --> 01:26:44.159
like, well, they're gonna strike
it right, there's no way that we're

1170
01:26:44.199 --> 01:26:48.199
not that we're gonna leave this.
And so they're like, yeah, cordon

1171
01:26:48.319 --> 01:26:51.079
off the area and make sure nobody
comes in and out, and then we'll

1172
01:26:51.159 --> 01:26:53.880
strike it and we'll get rid of
it. So that's what we do.

1173
01:26:53.960 --> 01:26:57.960
We spend the next couple of hours
making sure we clear everything. There's no

1174
01:26:58.079 --> 01:27:00.159
one inside these compounds, there's no
one near it. We have the whole

1175
01:27:00.239 --> 01:27:05.840
area of cordoned off. And then
we wait and we wait and two AM

1176
01:27:05.960 --> 01:27:10.760
rolls, around, three AM rolls
around, four AM rolls around, and

1177
01:27:11.119 --> 01:27:13.720
we're again we're in a valley in
taran Cott, which is like, you

1178
01:27:13.840 --> 01:27:16.960
don't stay there into daylight. Staying
there to the daylight, you start taking

1179
01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:21.159
rockets and mortars from the hills.
So we're like, are you gonna strike

1180
01:27:21.279 --> 01:27:24.560
or not? Like what are we
doing? And then finally they tell us.

1181
01:27:24.600 --> 01:27:27.800
We're like, oh, well,
we're we can't strike. So then

1182
01:27:27.840 --> 01:27:30.479
we're like, well, we'll just
hip it ourselves, right, We'll bloat

1183
01:27:30.560 --> 01:27:33.359
up ourselves. And they're like,
no, you can't do that. Maybe

1184
01:27:33.399 --> 01:27:35.880
there was a mosque, I don't
know, but we're like, what are

1185
01:27:35.880 --> 01:27:41.399
you talking about. We can't do
this. We can't leave thirteen thousand pounds

1186
01:27:41.439 --> 01:27:45.399
of HMME on target for them to
kill American soldiers with it for this ten

1187
01:27:45.479 --> 01:27:48.720
years. This is insane. And
they're like, well, stand by,

1188
01:27:48.920 --> 01:27:53.079
and then eventually, you know,
five AM rolls around, and the helicopters

1189
01:27:53.079 --> 01:27:56.560
show up, and we get on
the helicopters and we leave, and everybody's

1190
01:27:56.600 --> 01:28:00.920
looking around at each other like what
the hell are we doing? I mean,

1191
01:28:00.159 --> 01:28:03.800
we have we had the whole area
corn on off. It's all taken

1192
01:28:03.840 --> 01:28:08.640
care of. So obviously we're confused. We're pit We're pitted, right,

1193
01:28:08.920 --> 01:28:14.800
Like, for one, I didn't
just walk around this the this area that

1194
01:28:15.039 --> 01:28:17.279
was just guaranteed death for two hours
for us to just leave it there.

1195
01:28:18.079 --> 01:28:21.199
And so we get back. Everybody's
pissed, we you know, and there's

1196
01:28:21.199 --> 01:28:26.479
no gun fights anything like that on
this mission, and so, you know,

1197
01:28:26.560 --> 01:28:29.880
we do our AARs, we go
sleep, We wake up the next

1198
01:28:29.960 --> 01:28:32.640
morning and we come to do our
team meeting and our team started. It's

1199
01:28:32.720 --> 01:28:36.880
like, hey, General call and
got some news for you guys. We

1200
01:28:38.039 --> 01:28:45.159
have to fly back in and hit
this target again. So apparently what happened,

1201
01:28:45.359 --> 01:28:49.520
and again I don't know for sure, but the general who had the

1202
01:28:49.600 --> 01:28:56.039
authorities to strike this target was asleep
and his aids didn't want to wake him

1203
01:28:56.119 --> 01:28:59.840
up, so that's why we didn't
strike the target. Well, when the

1204
01:29:00.079 --> 01:29:03.000
general woke up the next morning and
he saw the mission brief and said why

1205
01:29:03.079 --> 01:29:06.560
the fuck didn't you guys wake me
up? We can't leave. Just like

1206
01:29:06.680 --> 01:29:11.760
we said, we can't leave,
right the enemy, all of this go

1207
01:29:11.920 --> 01:29:17.000
back and get it the general that
the General takes the risk of sending us

1208
01:29:17.079 --> 01:29:23.079
back into the largest cachet ever found
that they could potentially rig to kill us

1209
01:29:23.079 --> 01:29:25.800
all. Again, that was very
brave of him to take that risk.

1210
01:29:26.560 --> 01:29:29.039
Yeah, that's what we s That's
the very first thing we said. We're

1211
01:29:29.039 --> 01:29:31.680
like, oh man, you are
so u so brave because you guys leave

1212
01:29:31.880 --> 01:29:35.159
And I mean, first off,
you guys, so when we're talking about

1213
01:29:35.239 --> 01:29:41.840
him, you're talking about homemade explosive, right, yep, what what was

1214
01:29:41.960 --> 01:29:45.880
the nature of the of the homemade
explosive Because we're talking about are we talking

1215
01:29:45.880 --> 01:29:48.439
about id S or it's not a
finished PROD that like, No, so

1216
01:29:48.560 --> 01:29:51.600
it's it was more to the now. Again I'm not an engineer, but

1217
01:29:51.640 --> 01:29:58.359
more of like the fertilizer base,
uh, explosive right, Like it's it's

1218
01:29:58.520 --> 01:30:01.399
it's an explosive but hasn't been turned
into an i D yet. It's just

1219
01:30:01.479 --> 01:30:06.199
the actual explosive material that they have
bagged up in big fifty pound bags,

1220
01:30:06.760 --> 01:30:11.880
I mean, and the fact that
it wasn't rigged the first time, Oh

1221
01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:15.840
yeah, against you guys, and
then you're going back in there after you've

1222
01:30:15.840 --> 01:30:19.560
already told the Taliban that we know
this is here, and then it's not

1223
01:30:19.880 --> 01:30:28.239
rigged again. It's it's so lucky. So the SODAF did hold air assets

1224
01:30:28.399 --> 01:30:31.880
above the target and they struck anyone
who got anywhere near it throughout the day,

1225
01:30:32.560 --> 01:30:36.760
throughout the night. So they did
do that, right, because otherwise

1226
01:30:36.840 --> 01:30:41.520
we would have been like, no, no, that's just guaranteed death.

1227
01:30:41.760 --> 01:30:44.600
But still you never know, right, you never know if it wasn't already

1228
01:30:44.720 --> 01:30:47.760
rigged. Right, and then now
they realize somebody you know who's in the

1229
01:30:47.840 --> 01:30:50.199
area says okay, now I get
on my cell phone and wait from the

1230
01:30:50.279 --> 01:30:58.720
come back and boom. But you
know, to uh to like with everything

1231
01:30:59.039 --> 01:31:01.399
we got, we got a bunch
of I got. We all got our

1232
01:31:01.479 --> 01:31:05.640
calm with combat devices, right.
So they gave us big flashy awards for

1233
01:31:06.840 --> 01:31:12.840
our bravery on that one. That's
they had to make up. Oh and

1234
01:31:12.920 --> 01:31:16.039
they gave our They gave our our
team leader a Valor Award for that mission,

1235
01:31:16.159 --> 01:31:19.760
which he tried to turn down because
he was like, I'm not accepting

1236
01:31:19.800 --> 01:31:24.239
a Valor reward, you know,
and he was like six hundred meters away

1237
01:31:24.279 --> 01:31:27.279
from the whole thing the whole time. It's not accepting a valer award for

1238
01:31:27.359 --> 01:31:30.239
this, and you know, the
command was like, oh, yes you

1239
01:31:30.399 --> 01:31:34.239
are, because we're not. We're
not gonna have this look like a mistake,

1240
01:31:34.359 --> 01:31:38.279
you know what I mean, You're
gonna be brave. So when you

1241
01:31:38.399 --> 01:31:43.920
guys went back in that that second
night, did you have to read did

1242
01:31:43.960 --> 01:31:45.399
you just have to coordinate or did
you have to go back to the White

1243
01:31:45.399 --> 01:31:49.760
House and reconfirm. Well, so
we went back in the same night and

1244
01:31:49.800 --> 01:31:54.000
they still wouldn't strike it. They
sent us back in and we had to

1245
01:31:54.199 --> 01:31:57.319
internally bit it. It was like, you guys had a thing too,

1246
01:31:59.800 --> 01:32:01.319
we had to blow it. Yeah, they wouldn't even strike it, so

1247
01:32:01.439 --> 01:32:04.560
we didn't court on it or anything. So they sent us back in and

1248
01:32:04.640 --> 01:32:08.920
they were like, well that we
don't want to take the risk of striking

1249
01:32:08.960 --> 01:32:11.960
it. You guys go do it. So yeah, our EOD texts and

1250
01:32:12.039 --> 01:32:16.520
our Charlie's went in and they rigged
it, rigged this warehouse with C four

1251
01:32:16.640 --> 01:32:21.720
and everything and put a massive delayed
fuse on it, you know, and

1252
01:32:21.800 --> 01:32:27.640
they popped it and everybody ran five
hundred meters and uh, you know,

1253
01:32:27.720 --> 01:32:30.399
it's crazy when this thing went off, and you know, it's too bad

1254
01:32:30.439 --> 01:32:33.560
we can't show the video of it. When this thing went off, you

1255
01:32:33.640 --> 01:32:36.399
know, it looks like a nuclear
bomb going off in the NATO video,

1256
01:32:38.239 --> 01:32:43.399
but I remember because we're in a
valley. I was probably seven hundred meters

1257
01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:46.359
away from this explosion and I could
feel it in my chest like it was

1258
01:32:46.399 --> 01:32:51.800
a door charge in CQB. That's
how big that explosion was, you know.

1259
01:32:53.199 --> 01:32:59.920
So it was a sure, we
do we have the video? Yeah,

1260
01:33:00.000 --> 01:33:00.880
I sent it to you guys on
Instagram. Yeah, if you get

1261
01:33:00.920 --> 01:33:06.960
an oh yeah, we'll throw it
on the Patreon. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1262
01:33:08.039 --> 01:33:11.279
but that's the you guys have a
video of the is SR after we

1263
01:33:11.359 --> 01:33:14.800
bit that. But yeah, I
mean it's and it was kind of like,

1264
01:33:14.880 --> 01:33:15.840
you know, after we saw that
video, it was like, oh

1265
01:33:15.920 --> 01:33:19.439
that's and you can see, you
know in that video you'll see you don't

1266
01:33:19.479 --> 01:33:21.920
realize it's like, oh, these
are tiny buildings, you know, and

1267
01:33:23.000 --> 01:33:26.560
it's like engulfed by this atomic bomb
cloud and it's like, oh, that

1268
01:33:26.600 --> 01:33:29.840
would have been us as little ants
that Yeah, I had this thing gone

1269
01:33:29.880 --> 01:33:32.600
off? Yeah, did it did
it also, do you guys also bip

1270
01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:36.920
uh the vehicles or did that charge? Take about take about that? Yeah,

1271
01:33:36.960 --> 01:33:42.279
it blew the I mean it blew
four hundred meters of compound, disintegrated.

1272
01:33:42.600 --> 01:33:45.199
Everything inside of that thing was was
absolutely gone from that much explosive.

1273
01:33:45.600 --> 01:33:51.159
That's wild. Yeah, that's I
mean, it's so wild that you guys

1274
01:33:51.199 --> 01:33:57.680
were sent back in there instead of
Jess it's instead of basically doing an air

1275
01:33:57.760 --> 01:34:00.560
strike and saying and calling it a
day. Well and you know, super

1276
01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:03.319
irresponsible. Yeah, you know,
and I could say that now that I'm

1277
01:34:03.319 --> 01:34:06.640
out, But I mean the fact
that you would send us back into that,

1278
01:34:08.079 --> 01:34:11.399
you know, is for the fact
that you made a whoop seed,

1279
01:34:11.479 --> 01:34:15.359
like just strike it man. Yeah, like you've you've been watching it the

1280
01:34:15.399 --> 01:34:17.119
whole night. You know, nobody's
come into the area. We had it

1281
01:34:17.199 --> 01:34:20.760
cordoned off, right, you know, the i SR Has been watching the

1282
01:34:20.800 --> 01:34:25.239
whole bet you know, they they'd
rather, you know, send in a

1283
01:34:25.279 --> 01:34:28.680
team full of FF guys than take
the risk of you know, somebody getting

1284
01:34:28.720 --> 01:34:30.279
in trouble or something like that.
So it is what it is. Yeah,

1285
01:34:30.439 --> 01:34:32.680
Now, what did you guys do
about the mortars down by the river?

1286
01:34:34.520 --> 01:34:36.840
Oh? We dipped those. Yeah, we blew those up just as

1287
01:34:36.920 --> 01:34:41.520
we went through. Yeah. Yeah, so there was there was a few

1288
01:34:41.520 --> 01:34:44.239
different little caches on the way as
we got there that we just dipped in

1289
01:34:44.319 --> 01:34:47.000
place. Yeah, but yeah,
cache a wise, we would find stuff

1290
01:34:47.000 --> 01:34:50.079
like that all over the place.
We've probably found like a one hundred different

1291
01:34:50.159 --> 01:34:55.359
caches throughout all those different missions that
we would just dip in place. And

1292
01:34:55.800 --> 01:34:58.079
with that, I wanted to say
this because I always forget to talk about

1293
01:34:58.119 --> 01:35:01.640
it, which always made always pissed
you off. Is all these cachetes,

1294
01:35:02.279 --> 01:35:10.079
we're always American ammunitions. It was
American mortars. It was American ammo still

1295
01:35:10.239 --> 01:35:14.640
sealed serialized in the green and you
know the green boxes. And it's like,

1296
01:35:15.039 --> 01:35:17.720
oh cool, I wonder how the
Taliban we're getting all of this,

1297
01:35:18.279 --> 01:35:24.399
you know? So but I mean
they got plenty of it now too though,

1298
01:35:24.479 --> 01:35:27.760
so I guess let's see. Yeah, that that is interesting though,

1299
01:35:27.840 --> 01:35:30.920
because I mean, how do you
think do you think that it was indeed

1300
01:35:30.079 --> 01:35:34.600
working on base? Like so,
well, I can tell you I do

1301
01:35:34.720 --> 01:35:38.640
know how it is, right.
So what it is is that you know

1302
01:35:38.680 --> 01:35:44.840
a lot of people don't realize in
Afghanistan, you know, the whole Taliban

1303
01:35:44.960 --> 01:35:47.359
A and A thing is not as
like black and white as people think it

1304
01:35:47.479 --> 01:35:50.439
is. It's there's a lot of
like I'm Taliban one day, and I'm

1305
01:35:50.479 --> 01:35:55.760
A and A the next right and
whatever suits me best is where I'm at.

1306
01:35:55.880 --> 01:35:59.680
So for example, tons of missions
we would hit Taliban villages and there

1307
01:35:59.680 --> 01:36:03.359
would be multiple an A police cars
parked at the compound hanging out with their

1308
01:36:03.399 --> 01:36:08.039
Talban bites. So what I think
more of what it was is, you

1309
01:36:08.119 --> 01:36:10.760
know, we supplied the A and
A with all this ammunition and all these

1310
01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:13.399
mortars and all these rockets, and
then they would just turn around and sell

1311
01:36:13.439 --> 01:36:17.199
it to the Talban. I think
that's more of how that whole thing played

1312
01:36:17.239 --> 01:36:24.319
out. So in twenty eighteen,
did you guys ever find any night vision

1313
01:36:24.359 --> 01:36:30.479
whether it was American or commercial?
Like, did they have that? Yeah?

1314
01:36:30.560 --> 01:36:34.479
So the Talban Red Unit guys had
it, which we found a few

1315
01:36:35.239 --> 01:36:42.800
of those on the mission. The
final mission I'll talk about was Talban Ready

1316
01:36:42.880 --> 01:36:47.399
Unit guys that we ended up getting
in big fights with. So but that

1317
01:36:47.640 --> 01:36:54.199
was that was the only Taliban that
had night vision that we came across.

1318
01:36:54.439 --> 01:36:59.520
Was and was it was it military
American military or was it like storebox commercial.

1319
01:37:00.319 --> 01:37:02.800
Yeah, so I didn't. We
didn't see any American military. But

1320
01:37:03.319 --> 01:37:09.640
the big thing too is that the
talband red unit unless they got trapped,

1321
01:37:09.720 --> 01:37:13.079
which in this mission I'm talking about
we trapped and bad, they would not

1322
01:37:13.239 --> 01:37:16.079
fight American forces, right because they
didn't want to give up all the Gucci

1323
01:37:16.159 --> 01:37:23.720
equipment, so they would really only
fight the ANA. So we really didn't

1324
01:37:23.760 --> 01:37:30.520
come across them that much for that
reason. That's it's you know, it's

1325
01:37:30.560 --> 01:37:35.920
crazy because it makes all the difference. Like if the the guys who ambushed

1326
01:37:35.960 --> 01:37:41.000
you from that compound, if they
would have had night vision, it might

1327
01:37:41.039 --> 01:37:45.319
be dead. It'd be different,
Like it would be dead. Everybody in

1328
01:37:45.359 --> 01:37:46.560
that field would be dead. They
would hit you when you're in the field,

1329
01:37:46.640 --> 01:37:51.119
not when you were like ten meters
away. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah,

1330
01:37:51.399 --> 01:37:55.079
that's the only reason we're a lot
is they didn't have it. Yeah,

1331
01:37:55.119 --> 01:37:58.760
And that and that you can't be
in an open field and get ambushed

1332
01:37:58.800 --> 01:38:00.479
from a compound. If they had. If that was us with night vision

1333
01:38:00.520 --> 01:38:05.880
and compound, we would killed everyone. Yeah. Yeah. So uh so

1334
01:38:06.039 --> 01:38:10.800
then after you know, after this
and your team leader gets his valor award

1335
01:38:12.079 --> 01:38:15.399
and and you know, mad respect
to him, for wanting to decline it.

1336
01:38:16.319 --> 01:38:20.760
Oh, he's a awesome dude,
one of the highest ranked officers in

1337
01:38:21.840 --> 01:38:26.520
the Special Forces Regiment, right,
great, great dude, great commander.

1338
01:38:26.840 --> 01:38:30.520
And yeah, that was his thing, and especially because you know, the

1339
01:38:30.680 --> 01:38:33.279
entire team had gotten Valor Awards for
everything that happened and that was his thing.

1340
01:38:33.439 --> 01:38:35.520
Was like, I, for one, he didn't care, right,

1341
01:38:36.960 --> 01:38:42.000
And for him it was like what
you know, he was pissed too because

1342
01:38:42.000 --> 01:38:44.119
it was like, why are you
sending my guys back in to do this

1343
01:38:44.279 --> 01:38:47.920
and now you're trying to like make
it all kosher by giving me a Valor

1344
01:38:47.960 --> 01:38:53.680
award. Definitely didn't sit right with
him, But so do our comms have

1345
01:38:53.840 --> 01:38:58.079
v devices now, Yeah, So
that's what we all ended up getting,

1346
01:38:58.199 --> 01:39:00.319
right, So we were all put
in for besides my aten L two got

1347
01:39:00.359 --> 01:39:03.920
the silver Star, we were all
put in for bronze stars with Valor.

1348
01:39:04.319 --> 01:39:10.720
And the way the Valor Award system
works is you get put in for the

1349
01:39:10.800 --> 01:39:14.520
Valor Award and then it goes to
your local chain of command and your company.

1350
01:39:15.039 --> 01:39:17.199
They have to agree. The citation
goes through, it goes to your

1351
01:39:17.239 --> 01:39:21.600
battalion command. They agree, it
goes up to the Soda of command.

1352
01:39:23.039 --> 01:39:27.079
They agree, then it goes to
a board of sergeant majors who look it

1353
01:39:27.159 --> 01:39:32.560
over and they can agree or down
grade, right, and then it goes

1354
01:39:32.640 --> 01:39:39.079
to the one star general. So
each general can sign off on a certain

1355
01:39:39.199 --> 01:39:42.319
level of valor awards. So the
one star can sign off on a r

1356
01:39:42.399 --> 01:39:45.199
com V, the two star bronze
star with V a silver star I think

1357
01:39:45.199 --> 01:39:48.239
it's the fourth star middal of honor
goes to the president, right. So

1358
01:39:50.359 --> 01:39:56.159
so what had happened was it our
bsmvs and this is my whole team all

1359
01:39:56.279 --> 01:39:59.800
went through, all the way up
past the board of starting majors. Everybody

1360
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:04.159
agrees bron star val gets to the
one star general, who has the authority

1361
01:40:04.399 --> 01:40:09.920
to either pass the bronze star up
to the two star or he by himself

1362
01:40:10.039 --> 01:40:13.520
with no other person can say no, I'm just gonna downgrade these r com

1363
01:40:13.600 --> 01:40:15.760
V at my level. Boom,
sign them. Here's your RKMV. So

1364
01:40:15.920 --> 01:40:18.920
that's what he did to our our
oda is he said, no, I'm

1365
01:40:18.920 --> 01:40:21.159
not going to send them further.
I'm just gonna downgrade him right here at

1366
01:40:21.159 --> 01:40:26.800
my level. Sign here you go, So you know, it's it was

1367
01:40:26.920 --> 01:40:30.199
kind of a shitty thing to do
to us. But at the same time,

1368
01:40:30.640 --> 01:40:33.079
for me, you know, the
important thing for me was more of

1369
01:40:33.319 --> 01:40:39.239
like one, it's just an honor
that I was with my teammates to be

1370
01:40:39.319 --> 01:40:43.680
a part of that. And you
know, some of the things I watched

1371
01:40:43.760 --> 01:40:46.520
my teammates do or in my opinion, so much more heroic than what I

1372
01:40:46.680 --> 01:40:49.880
did. That Again, it was
just it just meant a lot to me

1373
01:40:50.039 --> 01:40:54.520
that I was a part of that. And then also the recognition sort of

1374
01:40:54.600 --> 01:40:57.560
for my family and like my kids
when they grow up, they'll be able

1375
01:40:57.600 --> 01:41:00.600
to, you know, see something
like that. So you know, the

1376
01:41:00.720 --> 01:41:03.880
level of our ward never really mattered
to me. I don't really care.

1377
01:41:05.199 --> 01:41:09.560
But it's still kind of one of
those shitty things that an officer just decides

1378
01:41:09.600 --> 01:41:14.439
on his own a bunch of NCOs
like, no, I'm just gonna downgrade

1379
01:41:14.479 --> 01:41:18.840
your stuff and sign it. But
honestly did not know that the armcom had

1380
01:41:18.920 --> 01:41:23.760
a v device, But I guess
it's been around for a while. But

1381
01:41:23.920 --> 01:41:30.159
yeah, it is very shitty.
I mean, it's like, why why

1382
01:41:30.680 --> 01:41:33.760
like it? It's not money out
of his pocket, it doesn't cost yeah

1383
01:41:33.800 --> 01:41:40.680
anything to sign off on that.
He just randomly like reads it and goes

1384
01:41:41.239 --> 01:41:45.800
nah, nah, not these guys. Yeah, you know, we said

1385
01:41:45.800 --> 01:41:48.199
the same thing. And what's funny
is you know we read you would read

1386
01:41:48.399 --> 01:41:55.279
like Bronze Star with Valor citations from
the Tenth Group team before us. Yeah,

1387
01:41:55.680 --> 01:41:58.279
you know we read those citations and
no knock on those guys, right,

1388
01:41:58.319 --> 01:42:00.960
they had an awesome stuff. But
you read those citations and be like,

1389
01:42:00.079 --> 01:42:03.000
well, this is these are your
ambushes were ten times crazier than those

1390
01:42:03.039 --> 01:42:08.279
awards. Yeah, and yet ours
are. And you know the worst part

1391
01:42:08.399 --> 01:42:14.479
was we had the Soda Commandrew come
and see us afterwards and he was like,

1392
01:42:14.600 --> 01:42:16.279
you guys only got put in for
broad Stars with Valor for that.

1393
01:42:16.720 --> 01:42:20.800
Yeah, He's like that should you
guys should all have silver stars. Yeah.

1394
01:42:20.880 --> 01:42:25.960
But then they turn around and knock
us all down. But you know,

1395
01:42:26.159 --> 01:42:28.760
whatever, you know, but you
know, I mean even you know,

1396
01:42:28.920 --> 01:42:31.359
like in your dad can probably speak
to this. And you know,

1397
01:42:31.439 --> 01:42:34.920
we've had a lot of guys from
SF and macp Sag on the show from

1398
01:42:35.000 --> 01:42:42.319
Vietnam, and it's in those small
units when the whole unit is doing something

1399
01:42:42.600 --> 01:42:49.039
very valorious, you know that it
just it's not looked at in the same

1400
01:42:49.119 --> 01:42:55.319
way as an individual in a in
a line company. You know, doing

1401
01:42:55.359 --> 01:43:00.000
the you know, one person standing
out, we'll get recognized and not always

1402
01:43:00.359 --> 01:43:04.920
not always recognize, like they get
their medals down downgraded a lot too.

1403
01:43:06.960 --> 01:43:15.479
But it's weird how the military looks
at small units who are under dressed and

1404
01:43:16.039 --> 01:43:23.000
doing these uncommon acts of hour.
Basically, yeah, you know, and

1405
01:43:23.079 --> 01:43:25.520
we we would always get told,
you know. And there's there's a big

1406
01:43:25.600 --> 01:43:29.920
thing soft operators. Typically you know, what you get a vour ard for

1407
01:43:30.199 --> 01:43:33.399
might be a bronze star, and
that same thing for someone the infantry is

1408
01:43:33.439 --> 01:43:35.920
a mel of honor. And that's
the reality of it. Because the way

1409
01:43:36.000 --> 01:43:40.039
that the military says is, you
know, you're just doing your job.

1410
01:43:40.279 --> 01:43:43.760
Your job is to do extraordinary things. Right, you did your job,

1411
01:43:43.960 --> 01:43:47.479
why would we give you, you
know, anything above and beyond that right?

1412
01:43:47.640 --> 01:43:53.840
So right, and you know,
and for your delta to be wounded,

1413
01:43:54.840 --> 01:43:58.960
to charge a machine gun nust like
that is the definition I think of

1414
01:43:59.119 --> 01:44:02.359
what you know, absolutely, yeah, you know, you get you get

1415
01:44:02.479 --> 01:44:08.479
injured, you save lives, you
eliminate the threat in a machine gun nests

1416
01:44:08.520 --> 01:44:10.960
in that situation. It's it's all
of those things, you know what I

1417
01:44:11.039 --> 01:44:14.640
mean. But he's a you know, he's an eighteen delta green brace.

1418
01:44:14.720 --> 01:44:18.239
So that's a silver star that's not
valerable that I guess, you know,

1419
01:44:18.399 --> 01:44:21.680
I don't agree with this. Chances
are though, when he's ninety, they'll

1420
01:44:23.000 --> 01:44:25.479
they'll turn around and upgrade it.
They just don't want to, you know,

1421
01:44:26.079 --> 01:44:30.920
they just don't want to pay the
kids for college. And yeah,

1422
01:44:30.199 --> 01:44:36.199
sure so, uh so you guys
have now bip this you x fill like

1423
01:44:36.359 --> 01:44:41.600
what's next on on the agenda for
you guys? Yeah, so again we

1424
01:44:42.520 --> 01:44:45.760
we have you know, some I
don't want to say normal missions, because

1425
01:44:45.800 --> 01:44:48.239
we had a lot of wild stuff
that happened, but I just like to,

1426
01:44:49.479 --> 01:44:53.079
you know, hit the big ones
that are that are exciting and fun

1427
01:44:53.119 --> 01:44:57.560
to talk about. So that the
last one or the third biggest kind of

1428
01:44:57.600 --> 01:45:04.560
coolest mission that we had was is
a mission where a Taliban compound was being

1429
01:45:04.880 --> 01:45:10.720
overrun or not excuse me, an
an a compound was being overrun by the

1430
01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:16.239
Taliban in a place called camp and
a conduct and cause a ruse gone.

1431
01:45:16.439 --> 01:45:21.960
And what made this sort of a
really high profile mission is that caused the

1432
01:45:23.000 --> 01:45:28.800
Aru's gone, which was north east
of a ruse gone was outside of the

1433
01:45:28.920 --> 01:45:32.199
med rings of anything that we could
go to so for people who don't know,

1434
01:45:32.319 --> 01:45:35.600
you have your golden now or of
medical coverage that we don't really operate

1435
01:45:35.680 --> 01:45:40.880
outside of in the event that somebody
gets injured. So caused the ruse gone.

1436
01:45:41.159 --> 01:45:45.439
No SF no American military had ever
been in here ever, So that's

1437
01:45:45.479 --> 01:45:51.239
how far out it was. An
austere it was. And so this camp

1438
01:45:51.359 --> 01:45:57.800
camp and a conduct that the ANA
had been basically getting overrun. They couldn't

1439
01:45:57.800 --> 01:46:00.560
get any supplies in, they had
all these dead soldiers, they couldn't get

1440
01:46:00.600 --> 01:46:06.119
them out. And our partner force
basically asked us if we'd be willing to

1441
01:46:08.319 --> 01:46:13.880
go in and and and help this
compound, and we were able to which

1442
01:46:13.920 --> 01:46:15.720
we were like, yeah, this
is awesome. We get to go outside

1443
01:46:15.720 --> 01:46:19.239
the med ring. We get to
you know, this compounds under attack.

1444
01:46:19.319 --> 01:46:24.840
We know we're going to get into
some nasty stuff. And the general you

1445
01:46:24.920 --> 01:46:27.840
know, he's I guess he you
know, he's into blessing off on risk,

1446
01:46:28.039 --> 01:46:30.520
so he was willing to take the
risk to send us the way outside

1447
01:46:30.560 --> 01:46:32.359
the med ring. And we had
to, you know, we had to

1448
01:46:32.399 --> 01:46:39.159
set up with the one sixth of
having we had surgeons sort of forward place

1449
01:46:39.560 --> 01:46:45.159
on on CGE forty seven's inside,
like you know, within the med ring.

1450
01:46:45.239 --> 01:46:47.479
So we had to build that whold
apparatus for for us to be able

1451
01:46:47.479 --> 01:46:53.199
to do it. But yeah,
so we get blessed off to come in

1452
01:46:53.439 --> 01:47:00.560
and basically hit this wover. The
way it worked is so there was a

1453
01:47:00.680 --> 01:47:05.520
compound the ANA had which on one
side of it, there was a big

1454
01:47:05.600 --> 01:47:10.239
mountain on the back side of it, and then you know, let's say

1455
01:47:10.279 --> 01:47:13.199
the north side of it was a
big mountain range, and then it was

1456
01:47:13.279 --> 01:47:15.840
right at the base of the mountain
range, and then the south side was

1457
01:47:15.520 --> 01:47:20.279
sort of grass shrubbery lands. And
so the ANA guys were stuck in the

1458
01:47:20.359 --> 01:47:27.159
compound up next to that mountain range, and the Taliban had built a bunch

1459
01:47:27.319 --> 01:47:33.880
of bunkers the dfps, and basically
we're assaulting through through this area to attack

1460
01:47:33.960 --> 01:47:36.760
the compound, and there was nowhere
for the Ana to go. They were

1461
01:47:36.800 --> 01:47:41.479
completely stuck. So, you know, we got breathed from the ANA guys

1462
01:47:41.520 --> 01:47:44.319
about where the compound was and where
the Talban were, so we got some

1463
01:47:44.359 --> 01:47:46.760
pretty good intel on it, and
so we decided, okay, well,

1464
01:47:46.800 --> 01:47:53.199
what we're gonna do is we're gonna
infill behind where the Taliban are and we're

1465
01:47:53.279 --> 01:47:58.279
just gonna pincer the Taliban in between
campaign the Conda and US, and there's

1466
01:47:58.319 --> 01:48:00.800
gonna be nowhere for them to go. They're just gonna have to fight us.

1467
01:48:00.880 --> 01:48:06.159
So so that was the plan as
we went in, and so I'll

1468
01:48:06.159 --> 01:48:11.119
just kind of go through, walk
through the mission. We got a lot,

1469
01:48:11.159 --> 01:48:12.960
we got a lot of go ahead
if you need to stop me.

1470
01:48:13.119 --> 01:48:16.960
Yeah, So was it all open
terrain? Was it wooded like outside of

1471
01:48:17.039 --> 01:48:21.880
that that kind of open area where
they had built their fighting positions? What

1472
01:48:23.119 --> 01:48:28.239
was it? So? Kasaru's gotten
more vegetative than you would think in Afghanistan,

1473
01:48:28.439 --> 01:48:31.520
much higher elevation as well. So
think of it as like high grasslands,

1474
01:48:32.199 --> 01:48:36.760
sort of grass up to your waist
with intermittent pretty large trees and then

1475
01:48:36.920 --> 01:48:42.199
sort of open areas in between that, right, sort of kind of like

1476
01:48:42.359 --> 01:48:47.880
Washington and Oregons type of vegetation.
Not your typical you know, Candahar desert

1477
01:48:48.000 --> 01:48:56.199
dirt, more of a vegetative,
large forested sort of type of environment.

1478
01:48:56.399 --> 01:49:01.039
Okay, So yeah, so we
uh, we we fly in and we

1479
01:49:01.199 --> 01:49:06.640
offset quite a bit because we don't
want them to know that it's Americans,

1480
01:49:06.760 --> 01:49:11.520
right, because we know no Americans
have ever been in there, but we

1481
01:49:11.640 --> 01:49:14.960
do know that they have been basically
trying to shoot down any A and A

1482
01:49:15.119 --> 01:49:18.079
helicopter that comes in. So they've
been used to the ANA trying to fly

1483
01:49:18.239 --> 01:49:21.880
in and not be able to get
in. So we want to basically make

1484
01:49:21.920 --> 01:49:26.920
them think that hey, this is
A and A helicopters trying to get in.

1485
01:49:27.159 --> 01:49:31.039
So we have the helicopters first fly
in and then fly over the top,

1486
01:49:31.319 --> 01:49:35.199
have them get shot at but our
patches and then fly off, and

1487
01:49:35.279 --> 01:49:40.600
then we sort of kind of like
a false infill, and then we fly

1488
01:49:40.760 --> 01:49:43.560
in right after that to make the
taleband think, oh, that was just

1489
01:49:43.680 --> 01:49:47.359
A and A helicopters. And so
we fly in, we hit the ground

1490
01:49:48.039 --> 01:49:53.319
and immediately, I mean within the
first couple of minutes, we start getting

1491
01:49:53.399 --> 01:49:57.039
the chatter on the chirp phones,
you know, and the ISSR of the

1492
01:49:57.119 --> 01:50:00.920
tal band going, oh that you
know that A and A are here.

1493
01:50:00.000 --> 01:50:03.079
They're trying to get their friends down. Let's go get them. Let's go

1494
01:50:03.199 --> 01:50:08.039
get them. So we're like,
oh, man, these guys have no

1495
01:50:08.319 --> 01:50:11.680
idea. You know, we've got
we've got our full o DA, We've

1496
01:50:11.720 --> 01:50:15.399
got sixty afghans, We've got and
again there's a mountain range right here on

1497
01:50:15.439 --> 01:50:17.760
the wall. So we're able to
hold our AC one thirty in all our

1498
01:50:17.800 --> 01:50:20.680
air aft that's right on the other
side of that mountain range. So they

1499
01:50:20.720 --> 01:50:26.319
can't hear the typical big brother in
the sky the yeah, yeah, they

1500
01:50:26.399 --> 01:50:28.960
don't know that we because they know
the sound of that. So they don't

1501
01:50:29.000 --> 01:50:32.399
know that we got that because of
the strain. So so we get to

1502
01:50:32.479 --> 01:50:38.800
our very first compound and the our
CTT who's talking to the pilots, is

1503
01:50:38.840 --> 01:50:43.840
like, hey, the pilots just
said that there's thirty guys in rank and

1504
01:50:43.960 --> 01:50:49.159
file columns walking through the open towards
us, right, so they're basically an

1505
01:50:49.239 --> 01:50:55.680
infantry line thirty Taliban hunting their way
to take down these an A soldiers.

1506
01:50:55.760 --> 01:51:00.239
They think that just flew in,
And so our commander and our CCT year

1507
01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:02.359
like, all right, bring in
the AC one thirty. And so you

1508
01:51:02.439 --> 01:51:06.479
know, we're five ten minutes into
the operation and right up over the top

1509
01:51:06.600 --> 01:51:10.560
of the mountain range, the AC
one thirty hits, hits the orbit and

1510
01:51:10.880 --> 01:51:15.920
just you know, smokes all thirty
of them, and immediately you hear over

1511
01:51:16.000 --> 01:51:19.279
the turf phones of screaming, oh
god, it's the Americans. It's the

1512
01:51:19.359 --> 01:51:26.239
Americans. It's the Americans. So
that's how, that's how that that operation

1513
01:51:26.399 --> 01:51:29.800
starts. Right. So now but
now you know, they're like, oh

1514
01:51:29.920 --> 01:51:31.920
god, this Americans are here.
So now they're not out in the open.

1515
01:51:32.000 --> 01:51:35.640
Now they're bunkering down. So they
had built all these bunkers and defensive

1516
01:51:35.920 --> 01:51:43.039
fighting positions so that they could fight
out of towards the Taban camp. So

1517
01:51:43.600 --> 01:51:46.159
we had to still clear from where
we were all the way to the Ana

1518
01:51:46.319 --> 01:51:50.399
camp because we were also going to
x fill all the dead bodies of our

1519
01:51:50.479 --> 01:51:54.239
Ana partner force. It was like
ten guys that were dead that they couldn't

1520
01:51:54.279 --> 01:51:56.960
get out. That was part of
what we were trying to help them do.

1521
01:51:57.199 --> 01:52:00.720
So we had to get all the
way there. It'll imitate everybody in

1522
01:52:00.800 --> 01:52:09.239
between. So the very first situation, we get into the big, first

1523
01:52:09.279 --> 01:52:12.680
big compound, we're about to try
to get into. The AC one thirty

1524
01:52:12.800 --> 01:52:19.159
has struck a bunker maybe thirty meters
offset from this giant compound, and so

1525
01:52:19.720 --> 01:52:25.159
we were trying to get access to
this compound walking around. Finally we found

1526
01:52:25.680 --> 01:52:28.279
the gate to get in, and
we're all standing on the side of the

1527
01:52:29.319 --> 01:52:32.199
compounds. We're waiting to get in
and I think em element leader on this

1528
01:52:32.239 --> 01:52:36.039
one too. I get my guys
inside and I send out a b DA

1529
01:52:36.199 --> 01:52:42.920
search, so battle damage assessment search
with one of one of my ODIA guys,

1530
01:52:43.119 --> 01:52:45.079
two of my Odia guys, and
some Afghans. I'm like, hey,

1531
01:52:45.079 --> 01:52:48.239
can you guys go clear that bunker
real quick with the AC one thirty

1532
01:52:49.399 --> 01:52:53.560
struck just to make sure we know
what we got. They're right cool.

1533
01:52:54.760 --> 01:52:57.600
They go walking out to go do
it, and then out of nowhere boot

1534
01:52:57.680 --> 01:53:01.199
machine gun fire PKM fire everywhere.
So apparently you know, there was four

1535
01:53:01.279 --> 01:53:04.000
or five guys in this bunker.
The AC one thirty killed the guys on

1536
01:53:04.000 --> 01:53:09.560
the outside of it, but they're
still bunkered in. So our two two

1537
01:53:09.640 --> 01:53:13.760
teammates to grabbing grenades and throwing them
inside these bunkers World War two style,

1538
01:53:14.079 --> 01:53:16.359
end up killing those guys. But
that was sort of the first realization of

1539
01:53:16.439 --> 01:53:20.279
like, oh shit, these guys
are in these bunkers like they are no

1540
01:53:20.439 --> 01:53:29.079
ship World War two style bunkered in
towards the objectives. So that was sort

1541
01:53:29.079 --> 01:53:31.560
of the realization of like, oh
shit, we can't just walk like out

1542
01:53:31.600 --> 01:53:36.600
in the open at these bunkers.
There's people inside. So so again we

1543
01:53:36.680 --> 01:53:42.079
have to. We're continuing to clear
towards the towards the compound, and we

1544
01:53:42.159 --> 01:53:47.159
get to the second big compound and
and again we're going through maybe like one

1545
01:53:47.239 --> 01:53:51.279
hundred meters of open area again with
like waist high grass as we get from

1546
01:53:51.319 --> 01:53:56.680
compound to compound, and so we're
maybe halfway there to the to the campaign

1547
01:53:56.680 --> 01:53:59.920
of Conda. Nothing really too bad
it has happened at this point other than

1548
01:54:00.039 --> 01:54:03.279
and you know, doing bdas on
bunkers. And my team starts like,

1549
01:54:03.319 --> 01:54:08.520
hey, I need you to get
to the final the final compound that's sort

1550
01:54:08.560 --> 01:54:14.079
of the last compound in between the
compound and the campaign a Conda. So

1551
01:54:14.119 --> 01:54:15.119
I'm like, all right, well, we got to clear through this this

1552
01:54:15.279 --> 01:54:19.000
open area to get there. So
get my guys, my afkhans ready to

1553
01:54:19.079 --> 01:54:24.079
go. And they go walking outside
the compound and we get ready to move,

1554
01:54:24.239 --> 01:54:27.840
and as I get to the wall, they all come springing back at

1555
01:54:27.920 --> 01:54:31.159
me and run back inside the compound
and I'm like, whoa, what are

1556
01:54:31.159 --> 01:54:34.199
you guys doing. We gotta clear
this area and they're like no way.

1557
01:54:34.880 --> 01:54:39.840
My Afkans are like no way,
we are not moving through that. And

1558
01:54:39.920 --> 01:54:42.880
I'm like, what do you mean
why? And they're like you look,

1559
01:54:43.439 --> 01:54:45.319
and so I go and I look
my head out and I look at this

1560
01:54:45.399 --> 01:54:49.600
big open area and I mean,
it is they built the bunkers out of

1561
01:54:49.680 --> 01:54:57.560
dirt and mud, but it's it's
waist high grass right with giant bunker bunker

1562
01:54:57.840 --> 01:55:01.319
bunker, but every ten feet a
huge bunker, right. So you're looking

1563
01:55:01.319 --> 01:55:04.560
at this and you're like, there
could be people anywhere in the grass.

1564
01:55:04.920 --> 01:55:10.560
There's bunkers everywhere. We know there's
people in these bunkers. So the Afghans

1565
01:55:10.560 --> 01:55:13.199
are like, no, wait,
we're not We're not walking through that.

1566
01:55:13.399 --> 01:55:15.600
You're crazy. And I'm like,
I don't want to walk through that neither,

1567
01:55:17.760 --> 01:55:20.880
but we've got to clear through it. So, you know, I

1568
01:55:20.960 --> 01:55:24.199
go to my team starting I'm like, I don't know what to do.

1569
01:55:24.560 --> 01:55:28.119
The Afghans and we have the Afghan
and the an a SF guys and they're

1570
01:55:28.119 --> 01:55:30.880
like, no, wait, this
is crazy. And so my team startings,

1571
01:55:30.920 --> 01:55:35.079
Like in the funny thing in SF, anytime there's like a problem that's

1572
01:55:35.119 --> 01:55:40.399
unsolvable, people will always tell you
you're a Green Beret, figure it out.

1573
01:55:40.840 --> 01:55:44.479
So this was like the ultimate moment
in my career of like, you're

1574
01:55:44.479 --> 01:55:48.319
a Green Beret. Figure it out
right. So my team startings like,

1575
01:55:48.359 --> 01:55:50.520
well, I don't know me and
to figure it out. And I'm like,

1576
01:55:50.760 --> 01:55:55.439
oh, okay, how do I
How do I do this? Right?

1577
01:55:55.520 --> 01:56:00.119
So I look at the my imagery
and I'm looking out and now I've

1578
01:56:00.119 --> 01:56:02.000
gotten on a second story of compound
and I'm looking out at these bunkers and

1579
01:56:02.119 --> 01:56:05.039
I'm like, how do how do
I do this? But I realized is

1580
01:56:05.079 --> 01:56:09.640
I'm looking at the bunkers, all
the doorways, and they're shooting holes they

1581
01:56:09.680 --> 01:56:14.119
have set up or face towards the
camp. So I realize, well,

1582
01:56:14.159 --> 01:56:18.039
we could clear this east to west
and basically walk through this bunker field without

1583
01:56:18.079 --> 01:56:24.439
them having any eyesighter access to us
as we walk up to the bunkers,

1584
01:56:25.119 --> 01:56:29.079
and so, you know, I
guess I think it's a good plan.

1585
01:56:29.239 --> 01:56:31.000
So I briefed my Afghans and I'm
like, hey, we don't when you

1586
01:56:31.039 --> 01:56:33.159
do this. There's no way we're
gonna get shot if we do this.

1587
01:56:33.560 --> 01:56:38.800
And the Afghans are like, all
right, we'll do it, and so

1588
01:56:38.920 --> 01:56:42.159
I'm like, okay, here we
go. So me and my teammate and

1589
01:56:43.159 --> 01:56:45.560
you know, ten Afghans we come
walking out the compound from the backside.

1590
01:56:45.600 --> 01:56:50.439
Now and I walk around the corner
and again it's like Vietnam grass up to

1591
01:56:50.439 --> 01:56:55.159
your chest with these bunkers, and
I'm like, this is the this is

1592
01:56:55.239 --> 01:56:57.880
the sketchiest thing I've ever seen in
my life. Right, I know,

1593
01:56:58.000 --> 01:57:01.439
there's people everywhere. At any moment, anybody could pop up and start shooting,

1594
01:57:02.520 --> 01:57:05.000
and we breast. We get the
whole element out into the grass,

1595
01:57:05.119 --> 01:57:10.039
and once as soon as we get
out into the grass, machine gun fire

1596
01:57:10.119 --> 01:57:15.479
from across the way blasts out of
nowhere. And then our team that our

1597
01:57:15.520 --> 01:57:17.800
other elements to our left is firing
back at the machine guns. Machine gun

1598
01:57:17.880 --> 01:57:21.119
fire. Crazy. It Actually they
actually aren't shooting at us, but we

1599
01:57:21.199 --> 01:57:25.640
don't know that right, So because
we had just come out into the open,

1600
01:57:25.760 --> 01:57:29.199
it's actually the tal band shooting at
our other element and them shooting back.

1601
01:57:29.279 --> 01:57:31.039
So we go running back around the
corner, you know, like oh

1602
01:57:31.079 --> 01:57:35.159
ship that we're not we're not running
out in that bunker field yet, but

1603
01:57:35.600 --> 01:57:39.439
you know, kind of like cowards
with our tails between our legs, just

1604
01:57:39.479 --> 01:57:41.880
because this is so it's you know, it's like World War two for real.

1605
01:57:42.000 --> 01:57:45.520
It's like this is so sketchy,
I would say, than cowardice,

1606
01:57:45.680 --> 01:57:48.600
you know, yeah, yeah,
but you're like okay. So you know,

1607
01:57:48.760 --> 01:57:50.920
we compose ourselves and we're like,
shit, all right, okay,

1608
01:57:50.960 --> 01:57:56.840
we can do this. They're not
shooting at us. And so we we

1609
01:57:57.000 --> 01:58:01.039
walk out again, and you know, I have two an A s F

1610
01:58:01.159 --> 01:58:04.800
guys that are with me out front, and one of them who I mean,

1611
01:58:04.880 --> 01:58:08.560
this guy. When I talked earlier
about some of these A and A

1612
01:58:08.680 --> 01:58:12.920
SF guys who were crazy, this
dude his story. Basically, he had

1613
01:58:12.920 --> 01:58:16.319
been fighting in the ANASF for fifteen
years. Talband came to his village when

1614
01:58:16.319 --> 01:58:19.560
he was six or seven years old
and murdered his entire family in front of

1615
01:58:19.640 --> 01:58:25.640
him. So all he cared about
was killing Talbot. And he was our

1616
01:58:25.720 --> 01:58:30.159
point He was our point man for
this movement, and so he would walk.

1617
01:58:30.239 --> 01:58:32.199
You know, we're walking out.
We get to the first bunker and

1618
01:58:32.279 --> 01:58:35.600
I made me ten feet away and
he just walks straight up to the bunker

1619
01:58:35.640 --> 01:58:40.960
because again, you know, with
the way the holes are, they can't

1620
01:58:41.000 --> 01:58:44.560
see us. He walks up to
the bunker, he looks in, jumps

1621
01:58:44.600 --> 01:58:45.880
his head out and looks back at
me, and he goes there's people in

1622
01:58:45.960 --> 01:58:49.159
here. And I'm like, well, okay, kill him, I guess,

1623
01:58:49.199 --> 01:58:51.199
and so you know, he grabs
it through an as and he throws

1624
01:58:51.279 --> 01:58:56.439
him in and blows up the bunker
and we end up clearing through probably like

1625
01:58:56.640 --> 01:59:00.720
five six seven more bunkers that way, of these an A Step guys just

1626
01:59:00.880 --> 01:59:03.680
walking up to the bunkers looking inside, oh god, and grenades and throwing

1627
01:59:03.720 --> 01:59:11.000
them in and eventually clearing through you
know, this whole area that way,

1628
01:59:11.119 --> 01:59:15.079
which was again, you know,
you know, combat is sketchy in general,

1629
01:59:15.159 --> 01:59:20.399
but that was definitely the sketchiest thing
I'd ever done. But anyway,

1630
01:59:20.439 --> 01:59:26.760
so we we we get through this
bunker field and we finally made it to

1631
01:59:26.800 --> 01:59:29.520
our last compound and then our other
element. You know, they have to

1632
01:59:29.600 --> 01:59:31.479
make the same track, right they
have to. They have to do it

1633
01:59:31.600 --> 01:59:35.760
through on their side, and we
eventually, you know, clear all the

1634
01:59:35.800 --> 01:59:40.640
way through, and at this point
we've just eliminated all these Talband and anyway,

1635
01:59:40.920 --> 01:59:43.399
so I was a getting with that
they were Talband Red Unit guys.

1636
01:59:43.439 --> 01:59:46.800
So we found a bunch of mvgs
and also we knew they were Talban Red

1637
01:59:46.920 --> 01:59:51.800
Unit because they gucci their guns,
so they they're a ks. They flare

1638
01:59:51.840 --> 01:59:56.199
them out with all kinds of crazy
ribbons and like you know, like,

1639
01:59:57.680 --> 02:00:00.800
yeah, yeah, it's like one
of those things are like sort of that

1640
02:00:00.920 --> 02:00:03.479
Arab like, you know, you
go into an Arab convenience store, how

1641
02:00:03.600 --> 02:00:06.680
flashy it is they do that with
their hay case and everything. So all

1642
02:00:06.720 --> 02:00:11.520
the guns we were finding were you
know, guccid out and crazy. But

1643
02:00:12.159 --> 02:00:15.439
something we've never talked about the Red
Unit on this show, and I think

1644
02:00:15.439 --> 02:00:19.000
it was something that happened later on
in the war. Can you can you

1645
02:00:19.119 --> 02:00:24.840
speak to that a little bit.
Yeah, So basically Talban Red Unit were

1646
02:00:25.399 --> 02:00:30.039
the sort you could think of the
Talband Talband special forces, right, and

1647
02:00:30.079 --> 02:00:34.520
they were guys that were being equipped
well we don't know for sure, but

1648
02:00:35.119 --> 02:00:42.039
equipped from Iran most likely and then
potentially Pakistan. But they were pretty much

1649
02:00:42.800 --> 02:00:46.359
exclusively through the southern part of Afghanistan
at least while we were there. And

1650
02:00:46.479 --> 02:00:51.920
again they used them primarily to really
hit the an A hard right, so

1651
02:00:53.039 --> 02:00:58.159
they would use their sort of their
Talband soft guys to nail after an A

1652
02:00:58.319 --> 02:01:04.680
checkpoints and really cause sort of you
know you d havoc on the Ana through

1653
02:01:04.760 --> 02:01:10.680
the south. So that was really
their purpose and they were far better equipped.

1654
02:01:10.720 --> 02:01:13.720
They had body armor, they had
night vision, they had all the

1655
02:01:13.760 --> 02:01:17.520
Gucci equip you know, Gucci equipment
far so you know, they weren't just

1656
02:01:17.680 --> 02:01:23.039
regular Taliban villagers that were you know, fighting at the lowest levels. These

1657
02:01:23.119 --> 02:01:28.960
guys were were organized, they were
equipped, they were funded, and again

1658
02:01:29.079 --> 02:01:31.439
they didn't want to fight the United
States and they didn't want to fight us

1659
02:01:31.600 --> 02:01:34.640
off. They were there to you
know, really cause damage and havoc to

1660
02:01:34.920 --> 02:01:39.399
the Ana who had you know,
no chance at fighting guys like that.

1661
02:01:39.680 --> 02:01:43.479
Yeah. Sure, it's funny that
you know, you mentioned how they sort

1662
02:01:43.520 --> 02:01:48.279
of like Gucci out there gear because
when you think of like us off,

1663
02:01:48.800 --> 02:01:51.039
if I'm in a Gucci of my
gear, like you have a a four

1664
02:01:51.119 --> 02:01:55.640
sixteen nupper, you do the camo
paint on it, like you do that

1665
02:01:56.199 --> 02:02:00.039
for them, it's like bedazzling at
putting dazzle flass. Yeah, yeah,

1666
02:02:00.319 --> 02:02:05.640
it's yeah, yeah, it's it's
it's a very it's a strange sort of

1667
02:02:06.239 --> 02:02:14.039
comparison or dichotomy. You know how
what they consider like gold, like if

1668
02:02:14.039 --> 02:02:16.920
they could afford, they gold plate
it exactly. That's exactly what I'm talking

1669
02:02:16.920 --> 02:02:19.239
about. Yeah, so we thought
a little bit of that. But yeah,

1670
02:02:19.279 --> 02:02:25.359
the big like the ribbons, the
fancy color like yeah, peacock type

1671
02:02:25.399 --> 02:02:29.199
of stuff coming three k. Yeah. Yeah, that's how they that's how

1672
02:02:29.239 --> 02:02:31.279
you could tell that you had,
you know, higher level of tier guys.

1673
02:02:31.399 --> 02:02:36.600
Yeah. But it's funny because even
there their personal photos and I don't

1674
02:02:36.640 --> 02:02:42.479
mean the red the Redd Unit,
I mean like Afghan or like their personal

1675
02:02:42.560 --> 02:02:47.239
photos are generally in a field of
flowers or they're like that soft light old

1676
02:02:47.439 --> 02:02:54.600
like you know, family portrait style. You know. It's it's yeah,

1677
02:02:54.640 --> 02:02:59.079
it's interesting. It's it's an interesting
contrast. Yeah, yeah, for sure,

1678
02:03:00.039 --> 02:03:02.640
you know. And it's funny because
when you when you talk about like

1679
02:03:02.720 --> 02:03:05.920
this waist high grass and these bunkers, I think back, you know,

1680
02:03:06.479 --> 02:03:10.319
obviously like your dad was venom.
I think back. It's like, boy,

1681
02:03:10.359 --> 02:03:14.880
it's too bad we stopped using napalm
because that's a perfect like environment for

1682
02:03:15.359 --> 02:03:18.720
napalm, right, just burn that
gas grass out. And we actually talked

1683
02:03:18.760 --> 02:03:25.279
about that because that was one of
the things before. Again, this wasn't

1684
02:03:25.319 --> 02:03:29.279
like a three minute thing where I
figured out a plan to to move through

1685
02:03:29.279 --> 02:03:31.640
this marker. This was like a
thirty minute sure me trying to figure out

1686
02:03:31.720 --> 02:03:35.000
how to get these guys to agree
with that. And part of that was,

1687
02:03:35.560 --> 02:03:39.159
you know, hey, can we
get air to basically just blow this

1688
02:03:39.279 --> 02:03:44.000
bunk or field out and strike it. Yeah, the problem was at that

1689
02:03:44.439 --> 02:03:48.079
we could have technically, but at
that time all are both our A tens

1690
02:03:48.199 --> 02:03:53.000
and our apaches had to go off
station to refuel, so all we had

1691
02:03:53.119 --> 02:03:56.479
was fifteens, and the F fifteens
were like, dude, we're not gonna

1692
02:03:56.800 --> 02:04:00.079
we don't We're not gonna strike an
area, you know, twenty meters away

1693
02:04:00.119 --> 02:04:02.880
from you. Guys, like everything
stanger close at that point for them.

1694
02:04:03.039 --> 02:04:06.680
Yeah, yeah, so we did. We did have them do a show

1695
02:04:06.760 --> 02:04:10.359
of force, the only time I
ever had F fifteens do it, to

1696
02:04:10.399 --> 02:04:13.720
show a force over the top of
us right before we went out to move,

1697
02:04:14.399 --> 02:04:17.760
which was I mean, that was
actually insane if anybody hasn't had that

1698
02:04:17.840 --> 02:04:20.319
done, where they come down about
one hundred feet off the ground, the

1699
02:04:20.399 --> 02:04:24.920
F fifteens, and then they punched
their mock right as they go over the

1700
02:04:24.960 --> 02:04:28.760
top of you, and I mean
it's like the shock wave blows out and

1701
02:04:28.800 --> 02:04:31.039
almost blows your ear drums out if
you're not ready. But that was the

1702
02:04:31.079 --> 02:04:33.479
best we could get, you know, before we moved, because all our

1703
02:04:33.560 --> 02:04:38.880
other our actual assets that could strike
close like that we're off station. So

1704
02:04:39.800 --> 02:04:43.000
yeah, So at any point in
time when you were you know, the

1705
02:04:43.119 --> 02:04:46.960
other element, when they you guys
were moving forward clearing these bunkers, you

1706
02:04:47.039 --> 02:04:50.600
know, with grenades, did they
ever glean on did they ever catch on

1707
02:04:50.720 --> 02:04:56.560
to what was going on? Not
really. I think that they were so

1708
02:04:57.560 --> 02:05:00.520
you know, having like thirty other
dudes immediately smoked right out the gate,

1709
02:05:01.000 --> 02:05:04.520
I think, you know, I
think that was just chaos for them.

1710
02:05:04.560 --> 02:05:11.319
I think it was basically hiding the
bunkers and pant It was panic big time,

1711
02:05:11.439 --> 02:05:15.159
right because they thought, you know, they had controlled this area and

1712
02:05:15.199 --> 02:05:17.399
they were just kicking the ship out
of the ANA for the last month,

1713
02:05:18.000 --> 02:05:20.520
and then all of a sudden,
you know, and then so they're coming

1714
02:05:20.560 --> 02:05:25.600
out to oh, we're gonna we're
gonna march on out and and mess these

1715
02:05:25.640 --> 02:05:27.760
guys up. And then all of
a sudden, you know, it's like,

1716
02:05:27.920 --> 02:05:30.439
oh shit, the whole might of
the American military and soft is here,

1717
02:05:31.600 --> 02:05:34.800
and what is left of who we
have is now in these bunkers.

1718
02:05:34.840 --> 02:05:40.359
Probably communications gone at that point.
Yeah, So I think that they were

1719
02:05:40.399 --> 02:05:45.760
just completely disheveled to the point of
trying to hide and just survive at that

1720
02:05:45.880 --> 02:05:48.640
point because of that. The other
thing is, you know, once that

1721
02:05:48.800 --> 02:05:54.000
AC, once that AC one thirty
like comes in, you know, comes

1722
02:05:54.039 --> 02:05:57.359
over the mountain, they can hear
just like that landmar in the sky like

1723
02:05:57.479 --> 02:06:00.159
they know what that means, right, every buddy, Yeah, everything,

1724
02:06:00.760 --> 02:06:04.079
the ANA knows the Taliban, everybody
knows they called big Brother, right,

1725
02:06:04.239 --> 02:06:09.279
everybody the others who the big brother
is A dude is And that's why we

1726
02:06:09.880 --> 02:06:13.600
that mountain range was so awesome is
that we were able to keep our aircraft,

1727
02:06:14.199 --> 02:06:16.720
you know, with in strike distance
but just right on the other side

1728
02:06:16.760 --> 02:06:20.159
of that mountain range to where they
just kind of sat up over the top

1729
02:06:20.640 --> 02:06:27.119
in orbit and boom. Yeah,
that's amazing. So so once you guys

1730
02:06:27.199 --> 02:06:30.560
clear this and you move forward to
the ANA compound, like what happens?

1731
02:06:30.720 --> 02:06:36.239
I'm You're they're obviously relieved, right
yeah, so oh man, yeah for

1732
02:06:36.359 --> 02:06:41.199
sure. So we cleared through that, we get to the compound and then

1733
02:06:41.560 --> 02:06:43.840
you know, we go in,
we meet all the guys and we get

1734
02:06:43.880 --> 02:06:46.600
all their wounded out and then all
they're dead, which we then had to

1735
02:06:46.960 --> 02:06:51.359
basically carry out and X fill out, which I think they had like nine

1736
02:06:51.439 --> 02:06:57.279
or ten nine or ten bodies which
had been there a long long time.

1737
02:06:59.000 --> 02:07:01.960
But yeah, so we got those
on helicopters and uh and got all those

1738
02:07:02.000 --> 02:07:05.119
guys out of there, and you
know, that camp was fined after that

1739
02:07:05.159 --> 02:07:08.840
because the Taban you know, they
bailed out of that area. They were

1740
02:07:08.880 --> 02:07:12.920
like, oh god, the Americans
are are We're willing to fight. But

1741
02:07:13.039 --> 02:07:20.119
it it gained as such massive appreciation
with our partner force more so than anything

1742
02:07:20.199 --> 02:07:27.399
else that we did. That was
a huge deal for that relationship between us

1743
02:07:27.640 --> 02:07:30.800
and our and our third Sock commandos
that we did that for them, which

1744
02:07:30.920 --> 02:07:32.720
was cool to be able to do
that too, you know, because you

1745
02:07:32.760 --> 02:07:36.960
can imagine from those guys in that
camp's perspective, they're just trying to survive.

1746
02:07:38.119 --> 02:07:41.399
You know, your buddies are dead
everywhere around you. There's nothing left

1747
02:07:41.840 --> 02:07:44.920
for you to do. You're struggling
to hang on and then you know,

1748
02:07:45.039 --> 02:07:48.199
we show up and kill everybody that's
been you know, smoking your unit for

1749
02:07:48.239 --> 02:07:51.359
the last month and uh and get
your guys out. So, yeah,

1750
02:07:51.560 --> 02:07:55.960
that was definitely a really cool thing
to be a part of. What was

1751
02:07:56.039 --> 02:08:00.000
it sketchy when you guys were approaching
the am combat? How did you deconflict

1752
02:08:00.239 --> 02:08:05.079
so they didn't fire you up?
Not really because they had R A and

1753
02:08:05.159 --> 02:08:09.359
A guys had comms with their guys
in the compound from pretty much the time

1754
02:08:09.439 --> 02:08:13.880
we hit the ground, so yeah, they knew. So we had cleared

1755
02:08:13.880 --> 02:08:16.840
through. We didn't clear straight up
to the compound. We cleared to the

1756
02:08:16.000 --> 02:08:20.720
final sort of compound, the Talband
head control, which is like another one

1757
02:08:20.760 --> 02:08:24.359
hundred meters away from the compound,
and then basically Radio had them the team

1758
02:08:24.439 --> 02:08:28.720
leaders and we had the Afghans obviously
lead and go get the dead bodies and

1759
02:08:28.800 --> 02:08:33.199
whatnot. Yeah, we didn't go
with them into the compound, but yeah,

1760
02:08:33.239 --> 02:08:35.199
they had they had comms with their
own guys, so that wasn't wasn't

1761
02:08:35.199 --> 02:08:39.720
really any prom at all. Now
do you guys like, did I sart

1762
02:08:39.760 --> 02:08:41.760
pick up? Did anybody x hill
from that area to the taliband? Do

1763
02:08:41.840 --> 02:08:48.159
you know that you got all the
bunkers So we definitely, yeah, we

1764
02:08:48.239 --> 02:08:54.239
definitely had dudes after the AC when
thirty struck that initial engagement. Yeah,

1765
02:08:54.279 --> 02:09:00.399
there was guys leaving that area like
oh yeah all over it was you know,

1766
02:09:00.520 --> 02:09:03.520
from the fringes. Yeah they were
gone. But all those guys who

1767
02:09:03.560 --> 02:09:07.119
were basically bunkered in that were attacking
the A and A compound, there was

1768
02:09:07.199 --> 02:09:11.520
nowhere for them to go. Yeah, I mean it was yeah, they

1769
02:09:11.760 --> 02:09:13.279
they there was nowhere to run too. But the guys on the fringes,

1770
02:09:13.399 --> 02:09:16.880
yeah, they bailed and they got
on their motorcycles. Everybody was gone once

1771
02:09:16.920 --> 02:09:20.680
they as soon as they heard the
AC one thirty and the big one O

1772
02:09:20.800 --> 02:09:22.159
fives come in, it was like, if you can get out, get

1773
02:09:22.199 --> 02:09:28.800
out. Yeah for sure. So
how did that? You know, so

1774
02:09:28.199 --> 02:09:31.680
your afghans go in, they recover
the bodies. How did that operation end

1775
02:09:31.760 --> 02:09:39.439
for you guys? Yeah? So
well, interesting way that ended. So,

1776
02:09:39.600 --> 02:09:41.560
yeah, we brought all the bodies
out. There was a big,

1777
02:09:43.159 --> 02:09:46.720
big open field that sort of we
had we had to move through as we

1778
02:09:46.760 --> 02:09:50.039
went through the compounds. So it
was a good place to bring our our

1779
02:09:50.079 --> 02:09:56.600
helicopters in and interesting with that.
So we had two Chinooks and I think

1780
02:09:56.640 --> 02:10:00.760
three black Hawks. We had an
extra Blackhawk come in able to help bring

1781
02:10:01.239 --> 02:10:05.399
the bodies out, and they all
came in sort of at the same time.

1782
02:10:05.560 --> 02:10:11.920
And my elements where we were posted
up, well, we watched all

1783
02:10:11.920 --> 02:10:16.359
the helicopters come in and land and
then No. Sage forty seven lands in

1784
02:10:16.399 --> 02:10:18.960
front of us, and so you
know, I'm looking around like okay,

1785
02:10:20.039 --> 02:10:22.840
we're kind of missing we're missing one, you know what I mean, and

1786
02:10:24.159 --> 02:10:26.600
watching and you know, we do
these things quick, right, the helicopters

1787
02:10:26.640 --> 02:10:30.800
hit the ground and get on the
helicopter you leave, and so I'm watching

1788
02:10:30.920 --> 02:10:31.880
that and then up they go,
up, they go up they go,

1789
02:10:33.319 --> 02:10:35.960
and all of a sudden, all
the helicopters in the air and my element

1790
02:10:37.079 --> 02:10:39.560
is just standing on the ground and
we're an enemy's territory, right, this

1791
02:10:39.760 --> 02:10:43.680
is a again, this is a
place where we're way outside the med ring.

1792
02:10:43.760 --> 02:10:48.199
So it's like, this is not
a place we want to get left.

1793
02:10:48.239 --> 02:10:56.600
But apparently whatever this last chinook,
you know, he was like a

1794
02:10:56.760 --> 02:11:01.560
kilometer away in an open field by
himself for whatever reason. But so luckily

1795
02:11:01.840 --> 02:11:05.560
I was able to still talk to
my commander on on my radio. I'm

1796
02:11:05.560 --> 02:11:09.239
like, hey man, nobody has
picked us up. So all the other

1797
02:11:09.319 --> 02:11:15.119
helicopters loitered and we're able to talk
on the final helicopter to come by and

1798
02:11:15.279 --> 02:11:18.680
actually pick our element up like ten
minutes later. But it was like,

1799
02:11:18.319 --> 02:11:20.880
okay, this is super sketchy,
you know, this is this is a

1800
02:11:22.039 --> 02:11:26.159
dangerous area, which we know Talvian
are are in the area. But you

1801
02:11:26.199 --> 02:11:30.439
know, I think they again we
just talked about they had all bailed out

1802
02:11:30.479 --> 02:11:31.920
of the area. So yeah,
that's dangerous, but it's still kind of

1803
02:11:31.960 --> 02:11:35.680
like, Okay, we really don't
want to get left. Yeah, you

1804
02:11:35.760 --> 02:11:39.439
know, two hours outside of the
med ring. Yeah. But but but

1805
02:11:39.560 --> 02:11:45.920
that pilot maybe it was the student
driver or whatever, like yeah, I

1806
02:11:46.000 --> 02:11:48.680
don't know. We have yeah,
you know, the one sixtieth is one

1807
02:11:48.720 --> 02:11:52.600
thing. But those guys are amazing. But some of our regular army pilots,

1808
02:11:52.760 --> 02:11:58.920
some of the stuff we saw was
like, man, just an aside.

1809
02:11:58.000 --> 02:12:03.720
This is from just talking about Shinook
pilots from a mission that really didn't

1810
02:12:03.720 --> 02:12:05.720
have much happened to it at all. But at the very end when we

1811
02:12:05.760 --> 02:12:09.399
were getting picked up, we got
one of the crazier things that happened in

1812
02:12:09.399 --> 02:12:13.479
our employment. Same thing. So
all our elements are we're getting ready to

1813
02:12:13.600 --> 02:12:18.640
Xville. We're in our line of
twenty guys standing in line CCT is I

1814
02:12:18.880 --> 02:12:22.880
R open in the CG forty seven's
on the ground. We're watching. We

1815
02:12:22.000 --> 02:12:26.680
got two pH forty sevens coming in
right at us. Two elements side by

1816
02:12:26.760 --> 02:12:31.399
side. The first forty seven you
know, it comes in lands fifty meters

1817
02:12:31.520 --> 02:12:35.520
in front of that element, just
perfect. And then we're watching our ch

1818
02:12:35.680 --> 02:12:39.880
forty seven and we're like, man, he's still really really high up in

1819
02:12:39.920 --> 02:12:41.920
the air, like why is he
not coming in? And then it's getting

1820
02:12:41.920 --> 02:12:46.640
closer and closer and closer to us, and we start to realize like,

1821
02:12:46.880 --> 02:12:50.600
ohkay, he's gonna fly, only
it looks like almost right on top of

1822
02:12:50.720 --> 02:12:56.079
us. And by the time we
realize it, we're like, oh god,

1823
02:12:56.199 --> 02:13:01.119
he's gonna land on us. And
so everybody off running in different directions

1824
02:13:01.239 --> 02:13:07.039
in this siege forty seven pilot comes
in. He realizes he's basically getting a

1825
02:13:07.119 --> 02:13:11.760
land on top of us, and
he yanks his pitch to not land to

1826
02:13:11.880 --> 02:13:13.479
the point, and so we're kind
of at the bottom of a hill like

1827
02:13:13.680 --> 02:13:18.079
this right here, right, so
we're sitting down here, and so he

1828
02:13:18.319 --> 02:13:24.239
yanks his pitch to not land now, and so that his back rotors smack

1829
02:13:24.439 --> 02:13:28.600
off the ground where we are all
we're just standing breaks the ground, which

1830
02:13:28.600 --> 02:13:31.079
would have killed everybody, how they
are not all just jumped out of the

1831
02:13:31.119 --> 02:13:37.359
way, and then his rotors hitting
it launches him upright and he almost heat

1832
02:13:37.399 --> 02:13:41.960
kettles the entire stage forty seven up
on top of it so and then barely

1833
02:13:43.520 --> 02:13:46.119
to get it back up to get
around to come and get us. But

1834
02:13:46.760 --> 02:13:48.680
just aside for some of the crazier
things you see some of those pilots,

1835
02:13:48.680 --> 02:13:52.439
do you think that was mostly an
experience? Was our brown out because he

1836
02:13:52.520 --> 02:13:54.920
had there a bird had already been
in or yeah, so we you know

1837
02:13:56.119 --> 02:14:01.560
in the Kandahar area and Helmet area, like brownouts they're like re single landing

1838
02:14:01.680 --> 02:14:05.760
just because it's it's the way the
terrain is. Yeah, so that the

1839
02:14:07.000 --> 02:14:11.760
inexperienced pilots really really struggle. Yeah, with the brown outse the experienced pilots

1840
02:14:11.800 --> 02:14:15.399
are so used to it that they
just let their instruments fell. What to

1841
02:14:15.439 --> 02:14:18.199
do they land, they don't really
care. Yeah, but the but the

1842
02:14:18.279 --> 02:14:20.880
inexperienced pilots, for sure, those
brown outs can't cause along. Yeah.

1843
02:14:22.279 --> 02:14:28.840
Yeah, it's funny because I remember
I flow with the Marines like a Marine

1844
02:14:28.880 --> 02:14:33.880
forced Recon team once and we're on
the marine birds and as they were landing,

1845
02:14:33.720 --> 02:14:41.199
I was like it, like the
rear seems really it seems like it's

1846
02:14:41.680 --> 02:14:46.359
down, like like we're not landing
level. And I was thinking, maybe

1847
02:14:46.439 --> 02:14:48.800
this is maybe this is just how
these birds land. I don't know,

1848
02:14:50.359 --> 02:14:54.239
but I look around all like the
Marines and their eyes are all like this

1849
02:14:54.359 --> 02:14:56.600
big, and I'm like, oh, this isn't how they land at all,

1850
02:14:56.640 --> 02:14:58.720
No, I think, you know. And the brown outs that's really

1851
02:14:58.720 --> 02:15:01.920
calm and too. You'll see that
where like it'll start to tilt and they

1852
02:15:03.159 --> 02:15:05.840
will be like more and more like
they're trying to get the butt of the

1853
02:15:05.920 --> 02:15:07.720
ramp to touch so they feel better
about it. But you're looking out the

1854
02:15:07.760 --> 02:15:11.239
back like, Okay, this is
yeah, this is not good. Yeah,

1855
02:15:11.920 --> 02:15:15.760
I mean. And and to be
fair to helicopter pilots like it,

1856
02:15:16.680 --> 02:15:22.319
it's a very challenging, challenging environment
to fly in for sure. And it's

1857
02:15:22.359 --> 02:15:26.239
not just you know, it's night
they're under night vision, they're dealing with

1858
02:15:26.359 --> 02:15:30.079
instruments. It's a brown out.
Yeah, they're worried about getting shot down

1859
02:15:30.119 --> 02:15:33.279
by an RPG from who knows where, ye, because they got all that

1860
02:15:35.399 --> 02:15:37.279
going on at the same time.
And you know, a lot of those

1861
02:15:37.319 --> 02:15:41.840
guys, I'm sure it's you know, I'm probably probably their first combat rotation.

1862
02:15:41.119 --> 02:15:45.239
They're actually flying for real, you
know, stress of that on top

1863
02:15:45.319 --> 02:15:48.560
of it. Yeah, and for
people who might not know, I know

1864
02:15:48.640 --> 02:15:52.439
a lot of you do. But
for people who know brown simply when when

1865
02:15:52.479 --> 02:15:54.680
a helicopter is coming in, obviously
it's kicking up a lot of air,

1866
02:15:54.760 --> 02:16:00.560
a lot of dust, and places
like Afghanistan where the dust is it's like

1867
02:16:00.760 --> 02:16:05.159
silt. Sometimes it's like talcum powder
in some places, and it just it

1868
02:16:05.319 --> 02:16:11.000
creates a brand out where they can't
see anything and they're they're on pure instruments.

1869
02:16:11.800 --> 02:16:16.920
I mean, it's almost like it's
almost like moon dust exactly. It's

1870
02:16:16.000 --> 02:16:20.479
like and you're you're right. I
mean, it's there's no vision at all.

1871
02:16:20.600 --> 02:16:22.600
You know. Sometimes we'll jump off
the back and it's like I'm gonna

1872
02:16:22.640 --> 02:16:26.359
run twenty feet in front of me
and and face out. Yeah, and

1873
02:16:26.560 --> 02:16:30.960
just great because you can't see anything. Yeah, yeah, but yeah,

1874
02:16:31.039 --> 02:16:33.360
moon dust is really you know,
it's like you step in it. It's

1875
02:16:33.399 --> 02:16:37.319
like, like I said, it's
like talcum powder, just like puffs everywhere.

1876
02:16:39.000 --> 02:16:45.200
So sure. So, uh,
were there any like significant operations for

1877
02:16:45.239 --> 02:16:48.399
you guys, any fun operations for
you guys after that one? Oh?

1878
02:16:52.639 --> 02:16:56.360
I mean those are you know again, we there's there's the most the other

1879
02:16:56.440 --> 02:17:01.000
operations have like little bits or pieces
that are cool or fun, you know,

1880
02:17:01.159 --> 02:17:07.040
but those are those were three of
the the biggest ones. Again,

1881
02:17:07.079 --> 02:17:11.680
we had another operation just for talking
about it wasn't that cool because we didn't

1882
02:17:11.680 --> 02:17:16.280
really get any gunfights. But we
found the number nine most wanted talban on

1883
02:17:16.319 --> 02:17:22.920
the Jupitalists at the time, Objective
ice Pick I think his name was at

1884
02:17:22.920 --> 02:17:26.200
the time. So for people who
don't know, you know, we rack

1885
02:17:26.280 --> 02:17:28.920
into the US government racks and stacks, you know, the most wanted terrorists

1886
02:17:30.959 --> 02:17:35.879
in areas. So that was that. That mission really didn't we didn't have

1887
02:17:35.079 --> 02:17:41.520
any It was kind of a we
infield. Nobody wanted to fight and just

1888
02:17:41.639 --> 02:17:48.200
happened that we found the guy that
we were looking for. So nothing exciting

1889
02:17:48.280 --> 02:17:54.000
there. The result was cool.
But but yeah, I could talk,

1890
02:17:54.840 --> 02:18:00.680
I could talk briefly about my very
first combat operation and some of them diculousness

1891
02:18:01.040 --> 02:18:05.040
that that happened. That's kind of
funny. Please do, dude, if

1892
02:18:05.040 --> 02:18:09.040
you wanted to hear that. Yeah, so my very first combat operation.

1893
02:18:09.239 --> 02:18:11.959
Right, so again, my very
first one. We fly in on the

1894
02:18:13.000 --> 02:18:18.040
one sixty and we land on the
target and we're in an area in a

1895
02:18:18.120 --> 02:18:24.399
ruse gone that looks like Jesus Christ
lived there. I mean it is mud

1896
02:18:24.600 --> 02:18:31.639
huts two thousand BC. Rural type
of environment. Right there is no green

1897
02:18:31.959 --> 02:18:35.559
anywhere you look. It's ten foot
tall, you know, dried out mud

1898
02:18:35.639 --> 02:18:39.879
walls, sort of like the face
of the moon type of things. Every

1899
02:18:41.159 --> 02:18:45.239
compound wall has murder holes in it
as far as you can look. So

1900
02:18:46.399 --> 02:18:48.280
we hit the X. We jump
off. I'm not an element leader at

1901
02:18:48.280 --> 02:18:52.479
this point. It's my first mission. My buddy is. And then so

1902
02:18:52.559 --> 02:18:56.760
there's some really funny This has really
got really funny stuff that goes with it.

1903
02:18:56.799 --> 02:18:58.239
We didn't we got in a gunfight
at the end, but more funny

1904
02:18:58.239 --> 02:19:01.600
stuff. So right out the gate
are her. We're riding in the one

1905
02:19:01.760 --> 02:19:05.639
sixtieth and so these guys don't mess
around. They fly nap of the earth,

1906
02:19:05.920 --> 02:19:07.879
which for those who don't know,
it's right off the top of the

1907
02:19:07.959 --> 02:19:11.239
surface of the earth. They fly
out the whole way, They fly in

1908
02:19:11.360 --> 02:19:15.360
fast, they drop, you jump
off the aircraft and they're gone. There's

1909
02:19:15.399 --> 02:19:20.040
no messing around. So we we
we hit the X. We jump off,

1910
02:19:22.280 --> 02:19:24.600
they take off. I look up. There's a compound right in front

1911
02:19:24.639 --> 02:19:30.000
of us, and immediately we have
are my team leaders with me, our

1912
02:19:30.040 --> 02:19:33.920
commander and no, no he's not, he's not with us. He's in

1913
02:19:33.959 --> 02:19:39.360
the other element, and yeah,
he's in the other element, and we

1914
02:19:39.479 --> 02:19:43.600
have our our our CCT with us. And so for everybody who knows,

1915
02:19:43.719 --> 02:19:48.239
the combat controller and the team leader
the ground force commander always side by side

1916
02:19:48.319 --> 02:19:52.920
because they work together for any stripes. So our CCP is with us,

1917
02:19:54.280 --> 02:19:58.959
and our commander is a thousand meters
away, and our CTT is looking around,

1918
02:19:58.120 --> 02:20:01.959
and he was like, where am
I what happened? So I guess

1919
02:20:03.040 --> 02:20:07.280
what happened? Is the other aircraft
that he was supposed to be on with

1920
02:20:07.399 --> 02:20:11.840
the team leader when they landed,
he was like trying to get unclipped from

1921
02:20:13.200 --> 02:20:16.239
you know, the radio and the
aircraft. He didn't do it in time.

1922
02:20:16.639 --> 02:20:20.319
By the time he got unclipped and
looked that one sixtieth pilots took back

1923
02:20:20.360 --> 02:20:24.000
off and then they were they were
jumping the other half of the element over

1924
02:20:24.120 --> 02:20:26.159
with us because we sort of did
a split and fill, and so he

1925
02:20:26.239 --> 02:20:31.360
gets dropped offs with us, and
so immediately first operation he's like, oh

1926
02:20:31.479 --> 02:20:35.079
God, what happened? I don't
know where the commander is? And so

1927
02:20:35.559 --> 02:20:41.760
are my seat my senior medics,
same guy I talked about earlier. He's

1928
02:20:41.840 --> 02:20:43.680
like the one with so many combat
deployments. He's like, okay, I'll

1929
02:20:43.920 --> 02:20:48.319
take you and I'm gonna walk you
across all these murder holes. First mission

1930
02:20:48.440 --> 02:20:52.479
back to the team leader. Right. So that's how that mission starts,

1931
02:20:52.600 --> 02:20:56.079
which is just ridiculous. And so
we start moving our way through these first

1932
02:20:56.120 --> 02:21:00.719
compounds, and I mean it's like
everything out of your worst nightmare when it

1933
02:21:00.760 --> 02:21:07.120
comes to I EDS there is there
are wires everywhere you're walking through, wires

1934
02:21:07.159 --> 02:21:11.319
are getting tangled up in your legs. Everything looks like an ied nightmare.

1935
02:21:11.559 --> 02:21:16.319
Right. So, very first operation
I'm carrying because in the plan we're gonna

1936
02:21:16.360 --> 02:21:20.840
knock down this defensive fighting position.
I'm carrying the Carl Gustaff on my back

1937
02:21:22.680 --> 02:21:26.120
with rockets, right, so that
which I never ever did again, right,

1938
02:21:26.200 --> 02:21:31.600
this is a one time thing that
I did. And so I've got

1939
02:21:31.639 --> 02:21:33.399
the car Goostaf on my back.
You know, for those who don't know,

1940
02:21:33.440 --> 02:21:37.559
it's this big rocket launcher and I'm
carrying it around getting tripped up in

1941
02:21:37.639 --> 02:21:43.079
wires. And we move up and
it's maybe you know, or maybe thirty

1942
02:21:43.120 --> 02:21:46.920
minutes in we get to this first
compound that I'm supposed to knock down with

1943
02:21:46.040 --> 02:21:50.799
my Carl Gustaf. So that way
because it's a defensive fighting position. We

1944
02:21:50.840 --> 02:21:54.000
can tell from the immagery this is
this is an nobs you know, you

1945
02:21:54.040 --> 02:21:56.120
can see it built up. We're
gonna knock down a hole in the wall.

1946
02:21:56.200 --> 02:21:58.719
That way, we can come in
the side of it. We don't

1947
02:21:58.760 --> 02:22:01.200
have to, you know, stand
out and trying to breach it and deal

1948
02:22:01.280 --> 02:22:05.000
with getting grenades throwing on us or
anything like that. So my my senior

1949
02:22:05.040 --> 02:22:11.840
eighteen delta again, he he's my
AG and we run out into the open

1950
02:22:11.040 --> 02:22:15.000
and he's like, all right,
man, let's let's shoot. Let's knock

1951
02:22:15.079 --> 02:22:18.559
this ball down. So I run
out and you know, again my first

1952
02:22:18.600 --> 02:22:22.040
time at operation ever, and I'm
like okay, and I am and wind

1953
02:22:22.159 --> 02:22:26.280
up and I'm like, where's the
wall, you know? And oh god,

1954
02:22:26.520 --> 02:22:28.559
you know, I don't know.
I'm like, I'm so mixed up

1955
02:22:28.600 --> 02:22:30.959
now, I don't know what's going
on. And so he grabs me and

1956
02:22:31.040 --> 02:22:31.920
he was like, dude, it's
over here. He turns me one hundred

1957
02:22:31.920 --> 02:22:35.760
and eighty degrees, you know,
linds me up onto the wall and he's

1958
02:22:35.799 --> 02:22:37.879
like, okay, okay, let's
let's shoot it. And I'm looking at

1959
02:22:37.879 --> 02:22:41.479
the wall. I'm like, aren't
we too close to this. You know,

1960
02:22:41.559 --> 02:22:43.680
we still laugh about this. We're
like thirty meters away from this wall

1961
02:22:43.719 --> 02:22:48.319
with Carl Gustaf and he's like and
again, same same guy who sprinted towards

1962
02:22:48.559 --> 02:22:50.840
the bullets in the near ambush.
She's like, no, we're fine,

1963
02:22:50.879 --> 02:22:54.559
we're fine. Don't worry though.
I'm like okay, And so, you

1964
02:22:54.639 --> 02:22:58.760
know, he puts the rocket in. I lined it up, and you

1965
02:22:58.840 --> 02:23:03.200
know, I clack it off,
boom, and of course the concussion basically

1966
02:23:03.239 --> 02:23:07.559
knocks us both down because we're so
close and you know, dust everywhere.

1967
02:23:07.719 --> 02:23:11.200
I get up, I'm looking at
the wall, you know, it starts

1968
02:23:11.239 --> 02:23:15.520
to settle, settle, settle,
and I look over at him. I'm

1969
02:23:15.559 --> 02:23:18.879
like, what did I miss?
What happened? And he's like, no,

1970
02:23:18.239 --> 02:23:22.600
you hit the wall. But these
walls were like two three feet the

1971
02:23:24.040 --> 02:23:26.399
just sun dried mud. This goo
stop round did nothing and just knocked the

1972
02:23:26.559 --> 02:23:30.639
dust stop of the wall. And
so we're like, oh, oh god,

1973
02:23:30.680 --> 02:23:33.399
what do we do? And then
we look we look over in our

1974
02:23:33.479 --> 02:23:37.319
Afghans had been watching us, and
they just rolled their eyes and they just

1975
02:23:37.520 --> 02:23:41.079
walked in the front gate of this
DFPED. So we're like, okay,

1976
02:23:41.159 --> 02:23:45.639
well, all right, we feel
pretty silly right now. So we you

1977
02:23:45.719 --> 02:23:50.360
know, we run over and just
walk in. We get inside this this

1978
02:23:50.520 --> 02:23:56.159
compound, and immediately everything I've been
told and the trained up for the last

1979
02:23:56.280 --> 02:24:03.920
nine months is we use our We
had special Afghan guys. Can't get into

1980
02:24:03.959 --> 02:24:07.520
sensitivity of it, but they would
basically be mine sweeping guys for us.

1981
02:24:07.079 --> 02:24:11.520
So we don't walk anywhere that those
guys have. They walk in front of

1982
02:24:11.600 --> 02:24:13.799
us everywhere where we walk. That's
all I've been taught for the last nine

1983
02:24:13.840 --> 02:24:18.200
months. We get inside the compounds, some stuff starts happening. My same

1984
02:24:18.280 --> 02:24:22.360
eighteen delta, you know, while
while this can be is like, oh,

1985
02:24:22.440 --> 02:24:24.079
we need to get over there,
and he's like, he's like,

1986
02:24:24.159 --> 02:24:26.799
let's go, let's go, And
so he just takes off, running through

1987
02:24:26.799 --> 02:24:31.840
an area that hasn't been cleared yet
with no mind detect your guys, and

1988
02:24:31.000 --> 02:24:35.639
an area that looks like there's an
ID in every step you could take.

1989
02:24:35.360 --> 02:24:39.440
And so I'm like, okay,
so we take off. We're going and

1990
02:24:39.520 --> 02:24:43.879
doing this and that. We get
to this sort of half wall on a

1991
02:24:43.959 --> 02:24:48.559
compound and again it's all these dirt
mud walls and everybody's jumping over it to

1992
02:24:48.600 --> 02:24:52.239
get to the next thing again,
I got this giant Carl Gustav on my

1993
02:24:52.360 --> 02:24:56.000
back. I go to step over
the wall like that, you know,

1994
02:24:56.040 --> 02:24:58.840
the walls like this. I go
to step over it like this, and

1995
02:24:58.159 --> 02:25:03.399
the ground beneath me falls out.
And so now I'm being held up on

1996
02:25:03.639 --> 02:25:09.760
my nuts and I'm stuck with the
Carl Gustav on the wall, and I

1997
02:25:09.879 --> 02:25:13.559
have to have these Afghans come over
and basically lift and drag me up over

1998
02:25:13.639 --> 02:25:18.760
the top of this wall to get
me out of there. So it's getting

1999
02:25:18.760 --> 02:25:22.360
more and more ridiculous. Right as
I'm carrying the stupid thing. We get

2000
02:25:22.479 --> 02:25:26.559
a little bit further in the objective, and we had an EOD tech on

2001
02:25:26.639 --> 02:25:31.120
our team who had like five or
six combat deployments and was one of the

2002
02:25:31.799 --> 02:25:37.639
craziest dudes I've ever seen. He
I don't know how he was alive anymore.

2003
02:25:37.760 --> 02:25:43.440
And I'll tell you an example of
why. So we roll up and

2004
02:25:43.000 --> 02:25:48.239
this was in between this and this
part was when my buddy through the therm

2005
02:25:48.319 --> 02:25:52.200
America and the collapse. One of
the things that blew my blew my lips

2006
02:25:52.280 --> 02:25:56.360
open, right, So all this
stuff is happening, right, So it's

2007
02:25:56.360 --> 02:25:58.639
just I'm like, this is what
combat is. This is ridiculous, right,

2008
02:25:58.680 --> 02:26:03.200
I'm I'm struggling. I'm trying to
I've also got this giant rocket on

2009
02:26:03.239 --> 02:26:05.120
my back, and I'm trying to
get through the doorways of these buildings.

2010
02:26:05.319 --> 02:26:09.559
And you know, the Afghans are
small, so these buildings they're like four

2011
02:26:09.639 --> 02:26:13.040
foot tall built doorways by three feet. So I'm, you know, and

2012
02:26:13.079 --> 02:26:18.319
I'm six foot two with this giant
rocket launch from my back, struggling to

2013
02:26:18.360 --> 02:26:20.559
get through. And then we finally
are getting towards the end of the objective

2014
02:26:22.079 --> 02:26:28.159
and we find a cachet down in
a basement. It's just massively filled with

2015
02:26:28.319 --> 02:26:33.319
explosives, not not massively, but
quite a bit of explosives down this sort

2016
02:26:33.360 --> 02:26:37.319
of basement. And my eighteen delta
he's like, I'm gonna move on and

2017
02:26:37.440 --> 02:26:41.079
keep clearing towards the end of the
end of the objective. Here, you

2018
02:26:41.159 --> 02:26:43.959
guys, go ahead, you and
the EOD tech and go ahead and bip

2019
02:26:45.079 --> 02:26:48.120
that. And so I'm like,
okay. So I look down in it

2020
02:26:48.280 --> 02:26:52.639
and again it's the basement is like, that's the most i d looking thing

2021
02:26:52.680 --> 02:26:54.959
I've ever seen. No way,
I'm you know, no way I'm going

2022
02:26:56.000 --> 02:26:58.200
down there. My EOD tech is
like, Oh, it's no big deal.

2023
02:26:58.239 --> 02:27:01.120
I'll go throws some four on that. He runs down the stairs,

2024
02:27:01.959 --> 02:27:05.399
goes and sets these C fours on
all the C four blocks on all this

2025
02:27:05.639 --> 02:27:11.120
rigs a rigs. The charge comes
back up, and so we're standing next

2026
02:27:11.239 --> 02:27:16.159
to the mud wall with the basement
that's sort of beneath us to the left,

2027
02:27:16.719 --> 02:27:22.920
and he hands me the like the
clacker. Yeah, he has me

2028
02:27:22.000 --> 02:27:24.319
the clacker, and he's like,
do you want to blow it up?

2029
02:27:24.479 --> 02:27:28.680
And I'm like, all right,
man, I guess right. So he's

2030
02:27:28.719 --> 02:27:31.360
like, all right, go for
it, you know. And we got

2031
02:27:31.440 --> 02:27:33.799
our we got our shoulders to the
wall, you know, we're hunkered down,

2032
02:27:33.879 --> 02:27:35.920
and I do you know, I'm
like push quarter turn pull. Nothing

2033
02:27:37.000 --> 02:27:39.600
happens. And he's like do it
again, and I'm like push cord turn

2034
02:27:39.680 --> 02:27:43.319
pull, nothing happens. It's like
it's fit and now it's failed and I'm

2035
02:27:43.399 --> 02:27:48.680
like, oh god right, and
so he then we just had a failed

2036
02:27:48.760 --> 02:27:54.559
failed explosive on this. He runs
back down onto the charge after this has

2037
02:27:54.719 --> 02:27:58.559
just failed, which you, like, anybody who's been around explosives nose like

2038
02:27:58.600 --> 02:28:05.760
this is the last thing you would
ever right, yeah, exactly. Insane

2039
02:28:05.000 --> 02:28:09.200
and again, this is my first
combat operation. All this is happening.

2040
02:28:09.239 --> 02:28:11.040
I'm watching this like I'm watching these
guys. That's done, you know,

2041
02:28:11.159 --> 02:28:15.719
multiple deployments is crazy shit, Like
this is what we're so, this is

2042
02:28:15.799 --> 02:28:18.639
what we do. We just do
insane shit like this. So he runs

2043
02:28:18.680 --> 02:28:24.040
down, rigs it up, and
he rigs way longer, a way longer

2044
02:28:24.159 --> 02:28:26.239
charge on it this time, so
we're able to like back up like fifteen

2045
02:28:26.319 --> 02:28:30.479
more feet and get behind a different
wall. And I'm like, okay,

2046
02:28:30.600 --> 02:28:33.159
this seems a little bit more safe. And so we get behind the wall

2047
02:28:33.479 --> 02:28:39.120
and this time push for a turn. Let it off. Boom. Right,

2048
02:28:39.719 --> 02:28:46.639
the explosion is so big that it's
basically raining mud clods like across the

2049
02:28:46.879 --> 02:28:50.719
entire objective. There's Afghan's running around
try to get under cover, and I

2050
02:28:52.319 --> 02:28:56.719
look up and the building with the
basement that we just had our shoulders next

2051
02:28:56.799 --> 02:29:01.559
to right is gone. It's a
giant crater in the ground. And I

2052
02:29:01.639 --> 02:29:05.319
look at him and I'm like,
we were we were standing next to that

2053
02:29:05.920 --> 02:29:09.360
when we tried to clack that off
the first time, you know, And

2054
02:29:09.479 --> 02:29:16.079
he was like, oh, whoops, now it worked out, so yeah,

2055
02:29:16.399 --> 02:29:18.680
that's and then uh okay, so
and then the final part of that

2056
02:29:18.760 --> 02:29:22.959
for sort of funny thing and first
operation. So we get through that,

2057
02:29:24.159 --> 02:29:26.920
we get to the sort of the
line of advance, which was these two

2058
02:29:28.000 --> 02:29:33.879
story compounds that ended up in a
big vegetative field, and so we basically

2059
02:29:33.000 --> 02:29:37.719
got up on top of these buildings
and there was actually tal band that were

2060
02:29:37.719 --> 02:29:41.079
maneuvering out in the grass and sort
of a gunfight sort of kicked off as

2061
02:29:41.200 --> 02:29:45.799
me and another guy were up on
top of the roof and you know,

2062
02:29:45.920 --> 02:29:48.319
both start flying. So we just
you know, start way laying rounds out

2063
02:29:48.360 --> 02:29:52.479
into the forest. Crazy basically,
you know, we're not really shooting at

2064
02:29:52.479 --> 02:29:56.399
anything, like panicking, you know, like backing up, getting down behind

2065
02:29:56.440 --> 02:30:00.440
cover. And you know, my
the same eighteen delta I was just talking

2066
02:30:00.440 --> 02:30:03.520
about so many combat deployments. He
like looks up over the ladder is watching

2067
02:30:03.680 --> 02:30:07.360
us and just starts laughing at us, and he's like, what are you

2068
02:30:07.559 --> 02:30:09.680
guys even shooting now? You know
what I mean? And we're like,

2069
02:30:09.840 --> 02:30:15.959
is that worth the CIB? And
he's like, no, no chance.

2070
02:30:16.040 --> 02:30:22.680
But but yeah, so that was
sort of my first, uh my first

2071
02:30:22.719 --> 02:30:28.840
time on a combat mission with just
ridiculous stuff happening around me and it's funny

2072
02:30:28.920 --> 02:30:31.639
too, because like there's there are
best practices, right, there are the

2073
02:30:31.719 --> 02:30:35.079
things that like, this is how
we do it. But then there's the

2074
02:30:35.200 --> 02:30:41.120
reality and the practicality of yeah,
we're not waiting for our our Iraqi like

2075
02:30:41.920 --> 02:30:48.159
mind sweepers like to go ahead of
us before every step we take exactly.

2076
02:30:48.440 --> 02:30:52.799
Yeah. So that right out the
gate on that mission was me realizing like,

2077
02:30:52.520 --> 02:30:54.520
oh, you know, and then
later, you know, later in

2078
02:30:54.600 --> 02:30:58.920
combat missions and later in my career, you know, you don't you're done

2079
02:31:00.000 --> 02:31:01.399
and think about stuff like that.
But when you're a brand new guy and

2080
02:31:01.440 --> 02:31:07.360
you've been training to standard and then
you're watching all these older guys just like

2081
02:31:07.399 --> 02:31:11.840
not do any of the things that
you know you said were the most important

2082
02:31:11.840 --> 02:31:15.479
things to do. Yeah, it's
funny. Yeah, And and combat is

2083
02:31:15.559 --> 02:31:20.879
one of those things right where because
of that it's ludicrous, Like combat is

2084
02:31:20.920 --> 02:31:26.319
just ludicrous and the worst things happen, and the funniest things happen, like

2085
02:31:26.639 --> 02:31:31.399
yes, right, and everything's like
heightened and elevated. Yeah, And you

2086
02:31:31.479 --> 02:31:35.600
know it's funny because you say that
is because some of the funniest stories.

2087
02:31:35.760 --> 02:31:39.879
For example, you know that right
after that near ambush, me laughing at

2088
02:31:39.000 --> 02:31:45.399
Afghans taking tournament kids off their buddies, right, painest things with hilarious things,

2089
02:31:46.079 --> 02:31:50.479
And it's like people that haven't ever
experienced it, they can't really understand.

2090
02:31:50.479 --> 02:31:54.399
You know. I've had people say
before when I'm telling those stories,

2091
02:31:54.479 --> 02:31:58.639
you know you might you're laughing at
things in the story, and they're like

2092
02:31:58.120 --> 02:32:01.559
they can't figure out. They're like, this is intense and horrible. How

2093
02:32:01.600 --> 02:32:05.000
could you be laughing at that?
And it's like, well, you have

2094
02:32:05.079 --> 02:32:09.520
to really understand sort of the morbid
reality of what's going on, yeah,

2095
02:32:11.360 --> 02:32:13.239
and have that that has to be
part of your sense of humor. Otherwise

2096
02:32:13.280 --> 02:32:18.360
I don't think you could really function. Yeah, you know, and as

2097
02:32:18.360 --> 02:32:22.520
it is so dark, right,
and the humor is that like pressure release

2098
02:32:22.559 --> 02:32:24.879
a lot of times, like you
know, when a guy's clearing a building

2099
02:32:24.959 --> 02:32:28.879
under fire and he steps in like
like a toilet hole and comes out,

2100
02:32:30.239 --> 02:32:31.799
comes out to the knee coated and
human, you know, like and shit,

2101
02:32:33.040 --> 02:32:35.959
yeah right, yeah, it's like
it's like it's like, yeah,

2102
02:32:35.000 --> 02:32:41.159
you're still under fire, but this
is absolutely hilarious. Yeah. Yeah,

2103
02:32:41.280 --> 02:32:46.520
And and there's there's a lot of
that yeah, And and I hope people

2104
02:32:46.600 --> 02:32:50.159
don't you know, And I tell
the stories. I hope people don't think

2105
02:32:50.200 --> 02:32:54.719
that I'm a cavalier about some of
this stuff, you know, because I

2106
02:32:54.760 --> 02:32:56.760
can laugh about so in reality,
you know, I've gone through a ton

2107
02:32:58.000 --> 02:33:01.559
of behavior help to deal with things
I've been through, yeah, you know,

2108
02:33:01.959 --> 02:33:07.520
years of work with therapists. But
but you have to be able to

2109
02:33:07.600 --> 02:33:11.680
laugh about stuff like that because I
think, you know, you have to

2110
02:33:11.840 --> 02:33:16.760
compartmentalize it, yeah, somehow if
you want to, you know, continue

2111
02:33:16.799 --> 02:33:22.920
to lead a decent mental stability in
your life. Yeah, but I think

2112
02:33:22.959 --> 02:33:26.719
that you see the same type of
behavior and like er doctors and nurses like

2113
02:33:26.280 --> 02:33:33.639
like you know, you you have
to find that that uh that lining right,

2114
02:33:33.799 --> 02:33:37.159
Yeah, I think I think that's
a that's a good example for sure.

2115
02:33:37.399 --> 02:33:39.479
People that you know, see a
lot of death and tragedy. For

2116
02:33:39.559 --> 02:33:43.760
sure, you have to be able
to departmentalize that. Yeah. Yeah.

2117
02:33:43.639 --> 02:33:50.040
So uh so that was that was
all like one that was a super active

2118
02:33:50.120 --> 02:33:54.159
deployment and yeah, and again those
were just three of the like the big

2119
02:33:54.200 --> 02:33:58.559
ones. Every mission we had,
you know, I think we killed close

2120
02:33:58.639 --> 02:34:05.000
to six hundred confirmed you know,
so those three missions was probably one hundred

2121
02:34:05.000 --> 02:34:07.799
and fifty to two hundred. So
you know, you still got ten more

2122
02:34:07.840 --> 02:34:13.760
missions where sporadic, ten twenty guys, ten twenty taliban here there, you

2123
02:34:13.840 --> 02:34:18.959
know, small gunfights here there,
quick snippets, you know, things like

2124
02:34:18.079 --> 02:34:22.719
that. But yeah, it was
it definitely was a huge, hugely kinectic

2125
02:34:24.280 --> 02:34:28.280
deployment overall. For sure. You
know, you spoke to something earlier,

2126
02:34:28.079 --> 02:34:31.479
you know, a little bit uh
that, you know, when you were

2127
02:34:31.559 --> 02:34:35.200
in the bunkers or when you're taking
out Like one of the things that people

2128
02:34:35.200 --> 02:34:39.879
don't understand in combat, especially when
it's at night under night vision, it's

2129
02:34:39.040 --> 02:34:43.600
very confusing, right, Like a
lot of times you don't even like one

2130
02:34:43.639 --> 02:34:46.399
of your buddies might be in a
gunfight and you have no idea where the

2131
02:34:46.440 --> 02:34:52.840
fire is coming from. Like it's
just very confusing for sure. For example,

2132
02:34:52.000 --> 02:34:54.440
you know, the guy who got
shot next to me, part of

2133
02:34:54.479 --> 02:34:58.200
that being in her night visions,
I can't see what type of uniform he

2134
02:34:58.600 --> 02:35:00.799
has on. I don't know,
Yeah, I can't tell. I can

2135
02:35:00.879 --> 02:35:03.079
see his face, I can't see
really much about him. Right of me

2136
02:35:03.200 --> 02:35:07.600
being worried? Is that my teammate, right, you know? And I

2137
02:35:07.639 --> 02:35:09.319
don't want to sound morbid about it, but had I known right away that

2138
02:35:09.440 --> 02:35:13.719
that wasn't my teammate, I wouldn't
have been concerned whatever at all. Then

2139
02:35:13.840 --> 02:35:18.079
Afghan just got shot at and more
focused on the gunfight. But you know,

2140
02:35:18.159 --> 02:35:20.200
that's sort of an example of what
you're talking about of sort of that

2141
02:35:20.280 --> 02:35:24.520
flog of war, especially in her
night vision, is a real thing for

2142
02:35:24.639 --> 02:35:30.840
sure. Yeah, So so you
guys finish up your twenty eighteen deployment and

2143
02:35:30.959 --> 02:35:35.159
then you're back on the shoot,
basically starting a training cycle for another deployment.

2144
02:35:37.000 --> 02:35:41.879
So, yeah, what had happened? So we come back from the

2145
02:35:43.159 --> 02:35:48.559
twenty eighteen deployment and that team had
been together for almost three years, almost

2146
02:35:48.600 --> 02:35:52.159
every guy on that team, So
it was sort of that time in everybody's

2147
02:35:52.239 --> 02:35:56.520
career where broadening assignments were happening.
Some of the high ranking guys were moving

2148
02:35:56.600 --> 02:36:00.319
into the E eight realm to take
their own teams. So the team I

2149
02:36:00.399 --> 02:36:03.760
had, I had to have surgery
on both my knees, so and some

2150
02:36:03.879 --> 02:36:05.399
other guys had injuries they had to
deal with. So the team, that

2151
02:36:05.600 --> 02:36:13.520
team sort of broke apart for the
most part, and then I did.

2152
02:36:13.120 --> 02:36:18.920
I had recovery on my knees and
I ended up going to a mountain team

2153
02:36:18.200 --> 02:36:22.120
after that because by the time I
had recovered my the dive team I was

2154
02:36:22.159 --> 02:36:26.159
on had replaced the eighteen Echoes,
and my start major asked me if I

2155
02:36:26.399 --> 02:36:28.920
if I wanted to go ahead and
be on a mountain team, which you

2156
02:36:30.000 --> 02:36:35.000
know, I felt cool. That's
a new experience. Which that one,

2157
02:36:35.360 --> 02:36:37.760
you know, I uh, no
combat on that one. We did a

2158
02:36:37.840 --> 02:36:43.520
cool trip to Mongolia, which that
was an interesting one. Not many guys

2159
02:36:43.559 --> 02:36:46.959
have been to Mongolia, which was
was a fun trip. But I was

2160
02:36:46.040 --> 02:36:50.760
only on a mountain team for about
a year and a half until twenty twenty

2161
02:36:50.959 --> 02:36:56.639
ish when the eighteen Delta, my
senior eighteen Delta I've been talking about this

2162
02:36:56.719 --> 02:37:03.040
whole time. He had taken a
low team out in Okinawa and there was

2163
02:37:03.079 --> 02:37:09.559
another Afghanistan rotation getting ready to be
spun up for the pre train up,

2164
02:37:09.719 --> 02:37:16.040
and he had one of the only
teams from Okinawa that were that had that

2165
02:37:16.200 --> 02:37:20.719
was gonna be going to Afghanistan because
most teams from most teams hadn't from Okinawa

2166
02:37:20.799 --> 02:37:24.000
hadn't been to combat in years.
And so I reached out to him and

2167
02:37:24.159 --> 02:37:28.399
was like, hey, you need
an eighteen Echo. This was also going

2168
02:37:28.479 --> 02:37:31.239
to get me out of being a
switch instructor, so I was able to

2169
02:37:31.399 --> 02:37:33.799
you know, stay on a team
by bypassing that. So he was able

2170
02:37:33.799 --> 02:37:39.040
to hold eighteen echo slot for me. I was able to PCs out to

2171
02:37:39.079 --> 02:37:45.479
Okinawa get on his team, and
then we started another train up for the

2172
02:37:45.600 --> 02:37:52.239
next Afghanistan rotation that we were going
to do in twenty twenty one, which

2173
02:37:52.319 --> 02:37:56.719
I I could talk a little bit
about that because that is going to lend

2174
02:37:56.799 --> 02:38:01.959
into obviously what everybody saw with what
happened in Afghanistan. I don't know if

2175
02:38:03.000 --> 02:38:07.360
we want to talk about things that
are that politically charged on Yeah, yeah,

2176
02:38:07.479 --> 02:38:11.120
I mean yeah, I mean it's
history. Well let's not avoid it.

2177
02:38:11.280 --> 02:38:15.799
I mean, it is what it
is. But I'm going to assume

2178
02:38:15.879 --> 02:38:18.280
that that at this point in time, you're the older, wiser man who

2179
02:38:18.479 --> 02:38:24.239
voiced the Carl Gustavs off to the
Bravos. Yeah. You know, at

2180
02:38:24.280 --> 02:38:28.920
this point, I'm five years on
a team, right, so you know,

2181
02:38:28.040 --> 02:38:31.600
I'm a I'm a senior E seven
at this point, element leader.

2182
02:38:33.360 --> 02:38:35.399
You know, I'm getting brought to
the team to be sort of that guy

2183
02:38:35.520 --> 02:38:39.719
that you know, my eighteen delta
who was that senior guy for me with

2184
02:38:39.799 --> 02:38:43.559
that experience as a team guy he's
sort of is bringing me to the team

2185
02:38:43.639 --> 02:38:46.239
to sort of be that guy for
his team, sort of that right underneath

2186
02:38:46.440 --> 02:38:54.159
him, senior leader at this point
going into the next time at So,

2187
02:38:54.520 --> 02:38:58.040
how does that so tell us about
that you got you got, you got

2188
02:38:58.120 --> 02:39:01.799
to Okinawa? You go to that
the first group team out there? Yeah,

2189
02:39:01.920 --> 02:39:05.680
so I so he was in So
I go see, he's got a

2190
02:39:05.719 --> 02:39:09.879
Halo team out in Okinawa. And
again most Okanawah hadn't been to Afghanistan in

2191
02:39:09.879 --> 02:39:15.319
almost a decade just because for whatever
reason, but I don't know why,

2192
02:39:15.639 --> 02:39:18.239
we just all of a sudden decided
we wanted two teams from Okinawa to go

2193
02:39:18.319 --> 02:39:24.440
on the next Afghanistan deployment. I
guess because of the highest levels Command was

2194
02:39:24.600 --> 02:39:28.040
upset that Okinawa wasn't holding their weight
in the combat realm. I don't know

2195
02:39:28.239 --> 02:39:33.360
whatever, But of course, you
know my wild old eighteen delts a senior.

2196
02:39:33.440 --> 02:39:37.280
He was the one that managed,
of course to find his way to

2197
02:39:37.319 --> 02:39:39.600
be team sergeant, to be the
team that was going to go back to

2198
02:39:39.680 --> 02:39:43.559
combat, because that's what that's what
he did. So I wanted to be

2199
02:39:43.639 --> 02:39:46.440
a part of that. So he
saved me a slot on the team at

2200
02:39:46.479 --> 02:39:48.399
PCs out there. I get to
the team, and I mean they're in

2201
02:39:50.159 --> 02:39:54.479
train up for Afghanistan when I get
to the team. So they are currently

2202
02:39:54.559 --> 02:40:00.520
in Safawik, which is our Special
Forces Urban and Sulter course, So usually

2203
02:40:00.559 --> 02:40:05.559
as an ODA before combat, you
do that together for about about a month,

2204
02:40:05.680 --> 02:40:09.840
which really trains tons of urban combat, CQB, all that different stuff

2205
02:40:11.399 --> 02:40:15.159
as an ODA, so they're they're
in the middle of that course when I

2206
02:40:15.319 --> 02:40:22.440
get out to Okinawa and then moving
straight into the premission training cycles of PMT

2207
02:40:22.040 --> 02:40:28.639
one two and then a battalion validation, so sort of three different PMT events

2208
02:40:28.079 --> 02:40:35.879
that we do sort of that six
month build up to a combat deployment.

2209
02:40:35.719 --> 02:40:43.079
So that's how I get out there. But yeah, so we do our

2210
02:40:43.479 --> 02:40:46.760
which is funny because we get out
to Okinawa and then all our PMT stuff

2211
02:40:46.840 --> 02:40:50.440
is in America, so I pc
PCs out to Japan and immediately spin the

2212
02:40:50.479 --> 02:40:58.799
next year back in America training and
so we uh and the team on months

2213
02:40:58.879 --> 02:41:03.399
very good. So we but again
we're the one Okinawa team that's going to

2214
02:41:03.520 --> 02:41:09.920
deploy with one of the battalions from
Group Maine, so nobody really was that

2215
02:41:09.000 --> 02:41:11.920
happy about us being there, you
know. We're sort of like step child.

2216
02:41:13.680 --> 02:41:16.799
That was sort of us and a
one of the teams from SCO the

2217
02:41:16.879 --> 02:41:20.000
Crift was also with us that was
going to be a part of it,

2218
02:41:20.200 --> 02:41:24.760
but we ended up being one of
the highest ranked teams at the validation,

2219
02:41:24.239 --> 02:41:30.440
which sort of made sense because we
had our team sergeant was the eighteen Delta

2220
02:41:30.520 --> 02:41:33.760
US talking about insane amount of combat
experience. Amazing leader. You had me

2221
02:41:35.120 --> 02:41:39.120
as one of the element leaders,
and then the second element leader on our

2222
02:41:39.159 --> 02:41:43.040
team was one of the senior guys
from that eighteen that twenty eighteen trip on

2223
02:41:43.159 --> 02:41:48.479
our sister team that was in Hellman, so we had a huge senior corps

2224
02:41:48.600 --> 02:41:52.639
of guys. Our eighteen Bravo had
multiple combat deployments, so again we had

2225
02:41:52.719 --> 02:41:56.680
a a odia with a lot of
combat experience again ready to go. So

2226
02:41:58.600 --> 02:42:03.319
we were looking at having a pretty
good mission going into that trip, which

2227
02:42:03.319 --> 02:42:09.799
would have been into twenty twenty one. And then yeah, so we got

2228
02:42:09.879 --> 02:42:15.479
to we finished our both our PMTs, our validation, and we got back

2229
02:42:15.520 --> 02:42:18.959
to Okinawa. We went on our
thirty days pre deployment leave, which is

2230
02:42:20.000 --> 02:42:22.079
a pretty standard thing after your BMTs, you know, you spend your time

2231
02:42:22.120 --> 02:42:26.159
with your family, you grow out
your beard, you get ready to leave,

2232
02:42:26.319 --> 02:42:31.639
right, and so we had shipped
all of our equipment and the is

2233
02:42:31.840 --> 02:42:35.079
s us too. I think it
is going through Dubai into Afghanistan. I

2234
02:42:35.120 --> 02:42:39.280
mean, we are that close to
deploy to Afghanistan, right, Like we

2235
02:42:39.360 --> 02:42:43.280
are three weeks and we got like
a week left. I got my beard

2236
02:42:43.319 --> 02:42:46.760
grown out, We're ready to go. We're supposed to go to Bogram basically

2237
02:42:46.879 --> 02:42:54.879
ideally most likely going to be facilitating
the an entire Soda, so upwards of

2238
02:42:54.959 --> 02:42:58.760
eighteen to twenty one oders we're going
to be at Bogram to basically facilitate the

2239
02:43:00.319 --> 02:43:03.399
probably six months of leaving Afghanistan.
Sort of the idea at the time.

2240
02:43:03.799 --> 02:43:07.120
You know, I'm not an officer, I don't know the exact battle plan,

2241
02:43:07.319 --> 02:43:11.639
but that sort of was the idea, which you know made sense because

2242
02:43:13.479 --> 02:43:16.040
you know, for what people don't
realize is that we would have one soda

2243
02:43:16.120 --> 02:43:22.920
for that same amount of odas that
held control of the entire country of Afghanistan

2244
02:43:22.239 --> 02:43:28.000
at a time, right, So
you're gonna have that level of firepower just

2245
02:43:28.239 --> 02:43:35.799
up in Bogram to be able to
facilitate that. And then we get the

2246
02:43:35.840 --> 02:43:41.559
announcement basically right before we're going to
leave of trips canceled. You guys aren't

2247
02:43:41.600 --> 02:43:48.520
going, We're shipping your gear back
and we end up basically getting told we're

2248
02:43:48.520 --> 02:43:52.639
going to Australia and said next week. So you can imagine we are not

2249
02:43:54.079 --> 02:43:56.120
happy. Nobody's happy, and it's
it's not our team, it's the entire

2250
02:43:56.239 --> 02:44:01.719
SODA. No SF guys will now
be going into Afghanistan. So we just

2251
02:44:01.920 --> 02:44:07.280
pulled out the guys who were there, all the teams and are sodaf was

2252
02:44:07.319 --> 02:44:11.200
supposed to be the ones that backfilled
that, and you know, the powers

2253
02:44:11.200 --> 02:44:16.280
that be decided we don't need that. And then here's the reality of what

2254
02:44:16.399 --> 02:44:22.399
we saw happen right after that and
the catastrophe of the fall of Kabul and

2255
02:44:22.479 --> 02:44:26.280
Bagram in Afghanistan. So again I
hate to get to political, but the

2256
02:44:26.440 --> 02:44:31.840
reality is I know that that didn't
have to happen the way it happened because

2257
02:44:31.120 --> 02:44:37.200
we were literally supposed to be there. And so people understand the Talban will

2258
02:44:37.239 --> 02:44:41.319
not fight a Soda from green brets. They won't fight an Oda of green

2259
02:44:41.399 --> 02:44:43.879
berets. Right, all you would
need us is just to be there,

2260
02:44:45.799 --> 02:44:48.479
and the whole thing would have never
happened because they wouldn't have fought us.

2261
02:44:48.520 --> 02:44:52.079
They wouldn't have tried, They would
have just waited, right But as soon

2262
02:44:52.159 --> 02:44:56.040
as they found out, oh there's
no more bearded ones, Okay, now

2263
02:44:56.120 --> 02:45:00.879
we'll just take the country over.
That's the sad reality of you know,

2264
02:45:01.959 --> 02:45:05.440
what has happened. And I've watched
you know, the podcasts of some of

2265
02:45:05.479 --> 02:45:09.239
the guys that have lost legs and
arms that were a part of that,

2266
02:45:09.399 --> 02:45:11.600
and the guys that were killed,
and it was all needless. None of

2267
02:45:11.639 --> 02:45:16.360
that has happened. So it's sad
for sure. And obviously, you know,

2268
02:45:16.399 --> 02:45:18.159
I haven't really wanted to talk about
that before, but it just pisses

2269
02:45:18.239 --> 02:45:24.879
me off so much. You know, I've lost you know, best friends

2270
02:45:24.920 --> 02:45:31.639
and teammates to that, to that
war. The hardest part about it is

2271
02:45:31.079 --> 02:45:35.559
that is the is the guys have
lost to that and the time I spent

2272
02:45:35.879 --> 02:45:41.000
there and it was to watch that
happen. So now it's to me,

2273
02:45:41.079 --> 02:45:43.280
it's a point where it's like I
don't care, I'm gonna I'm just gonna

2274
02:45:43.280 --> 02:45:46.200
be honest and tell the truth of
what happened and what we had available and

2275
02:45:46.280 --> 02:45:50.879
the decisions that you know, the
government made people should know that. I

2276
02:45:50.959 --> 02:45:56.920
think they should know that a better, a better plan was in place and

2277
02:45:58.040 --> 02:46:03.440
we actively decided grew it. We
don't care, We're gonna do it this

2278
02:46:03.520 --> 02:46:07.000
way instead. Right, Yeah,
And you know, it's interesting that how

2279
02:46:07.040 --> 02:46:09.639
you're speaking about this because and we've
talked about it on the show a couple

2280
02:46:09.680 --> 02:46:13.639
of times, but you know,
people talk about post traumatic stress a lot,

2281
02:46:13.879 --> 02:46:18.000
but something that doesn't come up in
popular conversation yet is the idea of

2282
02:46:18.120 --> 02:46:24.760
moral injury, you know, and
this this idea that and obviously you know,

2283
02:46:26.040 --> 02:46:28.959
guys for Vietnam definitely had this too, especially guys who worked closely with

2284
02:46:30.040 --> 02:46:35.879
the indigenous peoples. It is this
idea that you look at an event like

2285
02:46:37.000 --> 02:46:41.600
that and you say, it's not
even withdrawing from Afghanistan, because I think

2286
02:46:41.639 --> 02:46:46.120
that I think that all like veterans
and all like military people were like,

2287
02:46:46.239 --> 02:46:50.079
yes, there needs to be a
plan in place for withdrawing, Like we

2288
02:46:50.159 --> 02:46:54.360
don't know what we're doing there.
We're not like we it's like you talked

2289
02:46:54.360 --> 02:47:00.280
about the vso we took this ground
and then we give it up. You

2290
02:47:00.360 --> 02:47:03.040
know, our our government at no
point in time ever had a cohesive idea

2291
02:47:03.079 --> 02:47:09.040
of what victory meant there, but
then to just turn around and and leave

2292
02:47:09.200 --> 02:47:15.040
the way we left. Yeah,
it was psychologically. First off, it

2293
02:47:15.280 --> 02:47:20.399
was harmful to the troops that were
there. It was harmful to the Afghans

2294
02:47:20.479 --> 02:47:24.200
or Afghan allies. And then it
was also harmful to the veterans, you

2295
02:47:24.280 --> 02:47:28.239
know, and and you know and
the people involved in that who had been

2296
02:47:28.280 --> 02:47:37.479
involved in war that well that was
shitty. Yeah yeah, and you know,

2297
02:47:37.680 --> 02:47:41.520
and you're right, even when I
was there, it was kind of

2298
02:47:41.520 --> 02:47:43.319
like what a you know, what
exactly are we doing here? Right?

2299
02:47:45.360 --> 02:47:48.040
So once we had eliminated, isis
al Kada's gone? I mean, I'm

2300
02:47:48.120 --> 02:47:54.680
not an idiot. The Talban didn't
care about global politics and everything. They

2301
02:47:54.760 --> 02:48:00.239
just wanted everybody out so that they
could, you know, kind true the

2302
02:48:00.319 --> 02:48:03.760
way they wanted it, right,
was the Taliban, you know, conducting

2303
02:48:03.920 --> 02:48:07.559
terrorism across the world. No,
like you know, were aholes. They're

2304
02:48:07.639 --> 02:48:11.840
they're horrible, Like it's horri They're
horrible the way they treat women, the

2305
02:48:11.920 --> 02:48:16.040
way they you know, treat people. But is it our job to go

2306
02:48:16.200 --> 02:48:20.479
everywhere and get rid of all horrible
people all over the world? Exactly?

2307
02:48:20.680 --> 02:48:22.479
And And that's what I mean,
is that, like I'm I think we

2308
02:48:22.559 --> 02:48:26.319
were all we were all aware the
only reason we were fighting was for the

2309
02:48:26.360 --> 02:48:28.920
guys next to us right when I
was there, you know what I mean.

2310
02:48:30.040 --> 02:48:35.000
But at the same time, you
know, especially you know our guys,

2311
02:48:35.040 --> 02:48:41.520
like our Hazaran guys that were basically
been keeping SF guys alive and keeping

2312
02:48:41.520 --> 02:48:46.440
our legs on our bodies for fifteen
years. Those guys, I mean so

2313
02:48:46.559 --> 02:48:48.920
many times I would go to step
somewhere and they would stop me, grab

2314
02:48:50.000 --> 02:48:52.600
me, and they would make sure
they stepped in front of me if they

2315
02:48:52.600 --> 02:48:56.520
would take that id before I took
it. Those were some of the people

2316
02:48:56.639 --> 02:49:01.200
that we decided not and those were
the ones that got slaughtered by the Talban

2317
02:49:01.280 --> 02:49:05.399
because the Talban knew that they had
been working with us offt for so long,

2318
02:49:05.520 --> 02:49:09.760
you know, So you're right,
I think, you know, I

2319
02:49:09.840 --> 02:49:11.239
talked me and I get to talk
to my dad about that one a lot,

2320
02:49:11.479 --> 02:49:16.440
having you know, him being an
a CAM guy in Vietnam and dealing

2321
02:49:16.479 --> 02:49:18.840
with the endage, and we talk
sort of that same thing of you know,

2322
02:49:18.920 --> 02:49:22.440
we did the same thing to to
the uh, the munt yards and

2323
02:49:22.440 --> 02:49:28.120
the vietname Vietnamese when we left Vietnam. Yeah, we left them to get

2324
02:49:28.159 --> 02:49:35.319
slaughtered too. So it's a it
is tough, and you know, it's

2325
02:49:35.399 --> 02:49:37.280
it's again one of those things where
I've you know, sort of just kept

2326
02:49:37.319 --> 02:49:39.920
my mouth shut about it for a
long time, but I just kind of

2327
02:49:41.000 --> 02:49:45.520
tired of doing that because it just
angers me so much in a lot of

2328
02:49:45.600 --> 02:49:48.840
ways, just being a guy who
knew that, you know, like and

2329
02:49:48.959 --> 02:49:52.120
again, one of the frustrating things
is like guys like me, su guys

2330
02:49:52.280 --> 02:49:56.280
with at the time, I would
had seven years seam time, combat experience,

2331
02:49:56.360 --> 02:49:58.719
all these things. I would have
been there on the ground in charge

2332
02:50:00.079 --> 02:50:03.600
Odier's facilitating that, and instead we
sent a bunch of kids from the eighty

2333
02:50:03.639 --> 02:50:07.159
second that we're eighteen nineteen years old
to do that, you know what I

2334
02:50:07.239 --> 02:50:13.040
mean, That's what really drives me
crazy is that you know, we had

2335
02:50:13.120 --> 02:50:18.120
guys like me and my teammates that
you know, what have you trained us

2336
02:50:18.159 --> 02:50:22.280
for for this whole time that like
you had everything you needed, you know,

2337
02:50:22.399 --> 02:50:26.079
you had you had delta, you
had a whole soda Like everything was

2338
02:50:26.200 --> 02:50:31.360
there, So it wasn't like we
didn't have a better option. And I

2339
02:50:31.440 --> 02:50:35.440
think that's what angers somebody, angers
us so much in that yard. Yeah,

2340
02:50:35.520 --> 02:50:39.920
it was administrator. It was an
administrative failure. And whether it was

2341
02:50:39.000 --> 02:50:43.159
with you know, the administration,
with Biden or with the military or State

2342
02:50:43.200 --> 02:50:48.040
department, like, I don't know
how it all broke down, but yeah,

2343
02:50:48.159 --> 02:50:50.840
but it was a failure, a
complete failure. Yeah. And again

2344
02:50:50.879 --> 02:50:54.760
I have no idea where the order
for us not to go came from.

2345
02:50:56.239 --> 02:51:00.600
Clue. It was just hey,
you're not going right there, we're right,

2346
02:51:00.760 --> 02:51:05.920
So let me see if we have
any questions. Do do you mind

2347
02:51:05.000 --> 02:51:11.760
checking patroon? Let me see if
we have any questions for you? What

2348
02:51:13.079 --> 02:51:16.440
are you doing now? Where can
people find you? Yeah? So I

2349
02:51:16.559 --> 02:51:24.920
retired left least month and I am
currently a firearms instructor, so start my

2350
02:51:26.000 --> 02:51:31.079
own business. So my my YouTube
is Valhalla Firearms Training, so sort of

2351
02:51:31.120 --> 02:51:39.840
you know, Viking Baalhalla Firearms Training, same thing on Instagram and just subs

2352
02:51:39.879 --> 02:51:41.239
bet on what I do. So
I kind of think of what I do

2353
02:51:41.680 --> 02:51:46.959
is sort of being a Green Beret
and four civilians, right, So I

2354
02:51:46.079 --> 02:51:52.000
teach all kinds of different stuff,
concealed carry courses, to trauma medicine,

2355
02:51:52.680 --> 02:52:00.079
teach basic to basic pistol to rifle
courses, but also more advanced stuff and

2356
02:52:00.159 --> 02:52:05.280
advanced carbine courses CQB things like that. I'm just getting started. I'm going

2357
02:52:05.319 --> 02:52:11.319
to be relocating down in Oregon here
in a couple of weeks, but but

2358
02:52:11.440 --> 02:52:16.840
yeah, that's going pretty well.
Looking to hopefully get into working with you

2359
02:52:16.920 --> 02:52:20.799
know, the squat teams and the
Sheriff's department and things like that down there,

2360
02:52:20.479 --> 02:52:26.280
really transferring all that knowledge that I
have, not only to that,

2361
02:52:26.479 --> 02:52:31.280
but also to sort of the civilian
community so that they can you know,

2362
02:52:31.440 --> 02:52:33.680
defend and protects you know, their
families as well, because I think there's

2363
02:52:33.680 --> 02:52:37.719
so much that that we learn and
we get trained into that is applicable to

2364
02:52:39.280 --> 02:52:43.200
civilians as well. So, like
I tell people, you know, I'm

2365
02:52:43.760 --> 02:52:48.600
insanely well versed in CQUB. It's
the thing I took to the most of

2366
02:52:48.639 --> 02:52:52.959
my career. I love it more
than anything. But that's transferable to everyone

2367
02:52:54.079 --> 02:52:58.200
because if you're a gun owner and
you have a home, what is your

2368
02:52:58.239 --> 02:53:00.600
home? Your home is a CQB
situation, you know what I mean?

2369
02:53:00.639 --> 02:53:03.399
Do you know how to fight off
a home invader? Things like that.

2370
02:53:03.680 --> 02:53:07.440
So so yeah, that's what I'm
doing right now, is is ideally,

2371
02:53:07.639 --> 02:53:09.840
you know, I work for the
government for so long, hopefully I can,

2372
02:53:11.959 --> 02:53:13.959
you know, build my own business, which is going really well so

2373
02:53:13.120 --> 02:53:18.000
far, already have that all started, but you know, hopefully doing the

2374
02:53:18.120 --> 02:53:22.079
part of my military career as a
green brain that I love, and then

2375
02:53:22.520 --> 02:53:26.760
you know, transitioning that into the
civilian world as well, because I think

2376
02:53:26.799 --> 02:53:31.399
you have a lot of beneficial stuff
to impart on people that are interested in

2377
02:53:31.840 --> 02:53:37.799
that's fantastic. So can people come
to you for their Karl Gustaf training needs?

2378
02:53:37.840 --> 02:53:41.760
Also, Yeah, no, I
don't have a I don't have a

2379
02:53:41.799 --> 02:53:46.000
Carl Gustaf. And I also don't
shoot him anymore. Had my brain rattled

2380
02:53:46.040 --> 02:53:48.079
one too many? Yeah exactly.
Yeah, yeah, you only need to

2381
02:53:48.159 --> 02:53:52.680
be the Karl Gustaf. Is one
of those things like when they're like,

2382
02:53:52.760 --> 02:53:54.920
hey we have extra rounds, who
wants to shoot them? Liver is like,

2383
02:53:54.159 --> 02:53:56.719
yeah, I'm good. No,
I'm good, I'm good. I'm

2384
02:53:56.760 --> 02:54:03.360
good. So Joe's gotcha. Thank
you very much. I know you're not

2385
02:54:03.840 --> 02:54:07.239
sought a but in the timeframe you
were an Afghan Stan did you see the

2386
02:54:07.280 --> 02:54:13.440
Taliban adapting changing and to our sigate
capabilities. Oh that's a good one.

2387
02:54:13.479 --> 02:54:20.159
So we had we always had Sauda's
with us on mission. But I really

2388
02:54:22.479 --> 02:54:24.440
I hate to try to talk on
things that I'm not an expert on,

2389
02:54:24.680 --> 02:54:28.799
and that's really you know, the
SAUTA realm is really their own separate thing.

2390
02:54:30.040 --> 02:54:33.520
So I don't have a good answer
on that. Actually don't know on

2391
02:54:33.600 --> 02:54:37.239
that one. Yeah. Now,
as an echo, you didn't have any

2392
02:54:37.399 --> 02:54:39.600
like big draw to the sata's.
You're like, how you guys do your

2393
02:54:39.639 --> 02:54:45.319
thing? Yeah, surprisingly, so
not really. I mean as an eighteen

2394
02:54:45.360 --> 02:54:50.559
echo, I didn't really get into
a whole lot of that because we had

2395
02:54:50.719 --> 02:54:54.879
usually had two sada's attached. Yeah, and again we're so split. We're

2396
02:54:54.879 --> 02:54:58.799
still split up on four different elements. Like your MS is sort of a

2397
02:54:58.000 --> 02:55:01.719
very very second everything. Yeah,
you know, whether you're an at Echo

2398
02:55:01.879 --> 02:55:07.000
or Charlie or Bravo, like in
combat, you are an operator on an

2399
02:55:07.079 --> 02:55:13.360
element. You know, for my
specific MOLS, that pretty much was over.

2400
02:55:13.840 --> 02:55:16.399
You know, once we left the
team room, once everybody's radios or

2401
02:55:16.440 --> 02:55:18.639
filled and you know, everything's good
and everybody's got comms, you know,

2402
02:55:18.799 --> 02:55:22.120
they other than me being dual commed
and listening in on you know, also

2403
02:55:22.159 --> 02:55:26.399
the aircraft and things like that.
Like that side of it was pretty much

2404
02:55:26.479 --> 02:55:31.000
over. The rest of it was
you know, focused on clearing operations and

2405
02:55:31.200 --> 02:55:35.399
that side of Yeah, you know
you mentioned, uh, you know that

2406
02:55:35.479 --> 02:55:37.479
you had these combat enablers in your
CECT guy and you guys had a lot

2407
02:55:37.559 --> 02:55:41.879
of error like we've talked about on
the show before, like the J tax

2408
02:55:41.000 --> 02:55:46.200
A CCT the tach ps, like
how how professional, like how good those

2409
02:55:46.239 --> 02:55:50.159
guys are are at their jobs.
Yeah, so, I mean I I

2410
02:55:50.280 --> 02:55:54.559
am a so tech, I am
tax So I can't talk on that.

2411
02:55:54.760 --> 02:56:01.159
But you know, for us as
an SF guy, I so many sort

2412
02:56:01.200 --> 02:56:03.840
of hats and jobs that I'm wearing, especially as you get into senior levels

2413
02:56:03.879 --> 02:56:07.200
of it where you might be a
main element leader. So for example,

2414
02:56:07.280 --> 02:56:11.719
if I'm a main element leader and
I'm in control of moving thirty you know,

2415
02:56:11.879 --> 02:56:18.719
thirty guys, I can't also be
the guy who's battle tracking everyone around

2416
02:56:18.760 --> 02:56:22.559
me, who's who's controlling aircraft,
who's telling and strikes. There's no way

2417
02:56:22.760 --> 02:56:28.520
that I could ever do both of
those things. So typically, you know,

2418
02:56:28.639 --> 02:56:33.239
I do know a few SF guys
so tax that that did do it

2419
02:56:33.319 --> 02:56:37.200
in combat there were their team's main
guys, but for the most part,

2420
02:56:37.239 --> 02:56:43.719
we usually had Air Force CCTs or
jtax attache just because our workload's way too

2421
02:56:43.799 --> 02:56:46.479
high to be able to handle stuff. And that's a full time job.

2422
02:56:46.520 --> 02:56:50.840
I mean, yeah, it's hard
to do that and anything else. No,

2423
02:56:50.280 --> 02:56:54.319
it's an MLS by itself, and
you know, it's the most it's

2424
02:56:54.360 --> 02:57:00.360
the most important MS or job on
the ground as well, and it's the

2425
02:57:00.399 --> 02:57:03.280
most dangerous one because if you messed
up, you're gonna kill your own guys.

2426
02:57:03.639 --> 02:57:07.559
So there's no room for erro on
that at all. So you don't

2427
02:57:07.600 --> 02:57:11.879
want a guy who's like controlling aircraft
as his third job. Yes, that's

2428
02:57:11.399 --> 02:57:16.319
yeah, that's not ideal. Yeah, Jackson, thank you very much.

2429
02:57:16.600 --> 02:57:20.280
Did you ever work with the sift, C TACH or CAG and SF?

2430
02:57:20.079 --> 02:57:22.120
What were your thoughts? So?
How often do you see? Guy?

2431
02:57:22.719 --> 02:57:28.159
See you? Guys want to go
either route? So, I mean I

2432
02:57:28.239 --> 02:57:30.360
heard TAG, but what was the
other one? The Sift? But I

2433
02:57:30.399 --> 02:57:33.959
think they got rid of the Sift, didn't they? Oh Krif is it

2434
02:57:33.079 --> 02:57:37.000
christ now? Yeah? Krif?
I'm sure they're talking about Krift. So

2435
02:57:37.079 --> 02:57:39.799
the Krift is in Okanawa. Yeah, so they got rid of the crift,

2436
02:57:41.719 --> 02:57:45.000
right, They don't call them the
cripts anymore, but CCO is still

2437
02:57:45.559 --> 02:57:50.959
the crypt. They're still doing the
same functions. So I was looking at

2438
02:57:50.079 --> 02:57:56.920
going to SCO, but uh SCO's
mission said didn't really lend to combat really

2439
02:57:56.959 --> 02:58:00.280
at all. So a lot of
guys have sort of gone away from COO

2440
02:58:00.479 --> 02:58:05.639
to the line odas. For example, on my last ODA two or three

2441
02:58:05.680 --> 02:58:07.920
guys that were from the Crift originally, which was great for me because I've

2442
02:58:07.959 --> 02:58:13.440
been trained by the Krift guys for
so long in my career and CQUB and

2443
02:58:13.520 --> 02:58:16.799
stuff like that, which they are
absolutely insanely good at at. I mean

2444
02:58:16.920 --> 02:58:20.280
that is when you talk about CQUB
and stuff like that in the CRYPT and

2445
02:58:20.680 --> 02:58:26.440
Delta, those guys that's the that's
the ultimate level, highest level in the

2446
02:58:26.479 --> 02:58:30.000
world, both those organizations. So
yeah, I worked with a ton of

2447
02:58:30.079 --> 02:58:33.200
Krift guys because I had him on
my team, which has been great for

2448
02:58:33.239 --> 02:58:37.040
me because I've stolen so much of
what I know from those guys. And

2449
02:58:37.120 --> 02:58:39.239
then for Delta, Yeah, I
worked with quite a few Delta guys on

2450
02:58:39.319 --> 02:58:45.799
different types of things. So on
that twenty eighteen trip, we had a

2451
02:58:46.280 --> 02:58:54.719
contracted advisor that was a twenty year
tag Sartain major who was one of the

2452
02:58:54.799 --> 02:58:56.239
most I'm not going to give any
names, but he's one of the most

2453
02:58:56.520 --> 02:59:01.520
awarded soldiers in American history, and
he was with us and out on every

2454
02:59:01.559 --> 02:59:07.840
operation. So working with him was
was pretty wild on a one just the

2455
02:59:07.920 --> 02:59:11.440
stories, but just that level of
professionalism. You know, there's levels of

2456
02:59:11.520 --> 02:59:15.600
professionalism even in the soft world.
You have stuck forces very high, and

2457
02:59:15.600 --> 02:59:20.000
then you get to Delta Force and
it's just insanely, insanely professional. And

2458
02:59:20.079 --> 02:59:30.680
then also I did a not an
operation, but a training event with GAGS

2459
02:59:30.719 --> 02:59:35.000
Surveillance Unit a few years ago,
and that was really cool. I was

2460
02:59:35.079 --> 02:59:39.360
basically I played a North Korean security
guard, so there guys could surveil US

2461
02:59:39.440 --> 02:59:43.280
through I'm not gonna say areas or
anything like that because you know it's sensitive,

2462
02:59:43.360 --> 02:59:46.239
but I got to be a part
of watching them do that side of

2463
02:59:46.319 --> 02:59:50.159
things, which was which was pretty
awesome. Those guys are you know,

2464
02:59:50.399 --> 02:59:54.559
I've got quite a few close friends
and old teammates who are over in TAG

2465
02:59:54.680 --> 02:59:58.360
now, so you know, I
get a little bit of knowledge here and

2466
02:59:58.399 --> 03:00:03.159
there about what they're doing. But
yeah, definitely, those guys are incredible

2467
03:00:03.399 --> 03:00:09.879
for sure. Fantastic idea. If
there's one thing you could take away from

2468
03:00:09.879 --> 03:00:13.719
the US Army Special Forces or oh, if there's one thing you could add

2469
03:00:13.319 --> 03:00:20.000
or take away from SF. What
would it be, oh, add or

2470
03:00:20.159 --> 03:00:24.959
takeaway? So it already happened for
takeaway, which was when s VAB was

2471
03:00:26.040 --> 03:00:30.440
created. Right, So the SVAB
for those who don't know, sort of

2472
03:00:30.680 --> 03:00:39.399
came in and took the place of
training the host nation armies regular army forces,

2473
03:00:39.360 --> 03:00:45.479
which Special Forces was dealing with for
a long time, which just became

2474
03:00:45.559 --> 03:00:48.319
such a huge pain for us in
trying to deal with that and then also

2475
03:00:48.479 --> 03:00:56.680
running operations. So I actually do
like that that happened something I could that

2476
03:00:56.760 --> 03:01:05.000
we could add to Special Forces.
Oh so I think, uh, you

2477
03:01:05.079 --> 03:01:07.799
know, making s F a Tier
one unit so that we had the funding

2478
03:01:07.280 --> 03:01:11.000
that you know, things like Ranger
Battalion have. I think it's you know,

2479
03:01:11.159 --> 03:01:15.879
kind of bs that you know,
Ranger Battalion and uh no, knock

2480
03:01:15.920 --> 03:01:18.879
on Ranger Battalion, Like those guys
are awesome. I mean a third of

2481
03:01:18.959 --> 03:01:22.280
the SF guys I know are from
Ranger of Battalion. But you know,

2482
03:01:22.399 --> 03:01:24.159
it's kind of kind of pisses us
off that, you know, there's the

2483
03:01:24.239 --> 03:01:28.479
eighteen year old Ranger guys running around
that are Tier one and and you know,

2484
03:01:28.159 --> 03:01:31.920
forty year old SF guy with ten
years experience in them and Tier two

2485
03:01:31.959 --> 03:01:35.719
operator. But yeah, well has
it changed because Rangers used to be Tier

2486
03:01:35.799 --> 03:01:39.879
two and then stuff I thought was
tier three? Did that? Did that

2487
03:01:39.000 --> 03:01:43.559
change? Yeah, so that's change. So so Rangers of tier as far

2488
03:01:43.639 --> 03:01:46.040
as it used to be Rangers of
Tier one because they do a lot of

2489
03:01:46.079 --> 03:01:52.280
stuff with GAG and then SF is
Tier two. Okay, now that that

2490
03:01:52.360 --> 03:01:54.440
could have changed recently or whatnot,
but from the last time I remember that.

2491
03:01:54.719 --> 03:01:56.760
I mean, I'm just like going
back to like when I was in

2492
03:01:56.840 --> 03:02:01.360
which eight years ago. So uh
so, yeah, definitely, because I

2493
03:02:01.399 --> 03:02:07.239
do remember because it was we were
in Afghanistan. It was always TAG and

2494
03:02:07.360 --> 03:02:11.040
Ranger Battalion that we're getting one sixtieth
and so that was why, right,

2495
03:02:11.200 --> 03:02:16.239
So you and you guys got the
h the tail landing, the rotor strikes.

2496
03:02:18.079 --> 03:02:20.239
Yeah, well, I mean we
got the one sixtieth sometimes, but

2497
03:02:20.280 --> 03:02:24.120
then you would also get the Hawaiian
National Guard, uh you know, air

2498
03:02:24.319 --> 03:02:28.399
air aircraft sometimes for like high profile
missions, which just seemed kind of wild.

2499
03:02:28.520 --> 03:02:33.479
But yeah, and then Scott thanks
any tips for a twenty nine year

2500
03:02:33.479 --> 03:02:39.879
old trying to actually learn a second
language for the first time. Japanese Man

2501
03:02:39.559 --> 03:02:46.479
Japanese. Yeah, so foreign language
is rough. Chinese was really really rough.

2502
03:02:46.879 --> 03:02:50.879
I would say you'd have to really
just get immersed in it. You

2503
03:02:50.959 --> 03:02:54.040
know, we in language school you
do six months straight at eight hours a

2504
03:02:54.159 --> 03:02:58.280
day with an instructor who was from
that country, and you pretty much exclusively

2505
03:02:58.319 --> 03:03:03.000
speak it. The best way of
seeing guys learn it is through what's called

2506
03:03:03.000 --> 03:03:07.399
a let or they actually go live
in you know, if your Japanese,

2507
03:03:07.440 --> 03:03:11.959
you actually go live in a in
Japan with a Japanese family, and guys

2508
03:03:13.040 --> 03:03:16.600
can learn it way faster that way. But you don't have access to that.

2509
03:03:16.840 --> 03:03:20.680
Then, however, you can immerse
yourself into it, the better you

2510
03:03:20.760 --> 03:03:24.559
know it's foreign language isn't really there's
no secret to it. I think it's

2511
03:03:24.559 --> 03:03:28.520
just the more you speak it and
the more you immerse yourself in it,

2512
03:03:28.600 --> 03:03:33.079
the faster you're gonna pick it up. For sure. Yeah. And when

2513
03:03:33.079 --> 03:03:37.079
you consider that any five year old
in any country can speak their language,

2514
03:03:37.200 --> 03:03:41.000
like for sure, it points to
what you're saying, is that it's immersion.

2515
03:03:41.959 --> 03:03:48.200
Yeah, it is that repetition of
yeah for sure. So everybody check

2516
03:03:48.200 --> 03:03:56.799
out Nate at Firearm or Valhalla Firearms
Training on on YouTube, like subscribe right

2517
03:03:56.840 --> 03:04:03.040
now, and also Valhalla Firearms Training
on Instagram. What were you saying?

2518
03:04:03.079 --> 03:04:09.440
D huh oh, it's in the
description. Uh yeah, send them down

2519
03:04:09.479 --> 03:04:13.639
in the description. But also if
you're listening on the podcast, check them

2520
03:04:13.639 --> 03:04:20.319
out, subscribe, follow, join
Nate. Thank you very much. Yeah,

2521
03:04:20.399 --> 03:04:24.280
this was fun for sure. I
appreciate it. Yeah. So I

2522
03:04:24.559 --> 03:04:28.000
uh, I like, uh,
you know, it's my second second podcast

2523
03:04:28.079 --> 03:04:31.239
I've done, and it's definitely you
know, so much of this stuff I

2524
03:04:31.360 --> 03:04:35.840
haven't really talked about before other than
you know, with my teammates. So

2525
03:04:35.920 --> 03:04:39.639
it's kind of therapeutic in a way. I think. Yeah, to uh

2526
03:04:39.840 --> 03:04:43.399
sit down with you know, another
soft guy like you and who understands and

2527
03:04:43.600 --> 03:04:48.360
and have a free, you know, sort of safe space to talk about

2528
03:04:48.399 --> 03:04:50.079
the same and stuff. So yeah, definitely cool experience. I appreciate it.

2529
03:04:50.719 --> 03:04:54.360
We appreciate you, man, like
we we appreciate you coming on.

2530
03:04:54.559 --> 03:04:56.879
We you know, like our our
goal here is just recorded history on the

2531
03:04:56.920 --> 03:05:01.920
personal level, and you know,
and they're they're things like if we could

2532
03:05:01.959 --> 03:05:05.920
go back and listen to podcasts with
the guys who were on Omaha Beach or

2533
03:05:07.360 --> 03:05:11.440
you know, you know, like
you know, it's amazing and and we

2534
03:05:11.639 --> 03:05:16.319
have a unique way of capturing history
these days that they didn't have in the

2535
03:05:16.399 --> 03:05:18.200
past, where you know, hopefully
one of these days, you know,

2536
03:05:18.440 --> 03:05:22.639
your kids, your grandkids, you
know, your great grand control be able

2537
03:05:22.680 --> 03:05:28.479
to find this and see who you
were. Yeah, and you know that's

2538
03:05:28.639 --> 03:05:31.000
that's a cool you put it,
and you know you think about it.

2539
03:05:31.000 --> 03:05:33.159
You know all this stuff. You
know, it's not just me, It's

2540
03:05:33.200 --> 03:05:37.920
just what my oba has done.
It all guys have done, you know.

2541
03:05:37.200 --> 03:05:43.079
I mean, that's something like this
that's going to disappear some day and

2542
03:05:43.120 --> 03:05:45.760
nobody but us is going to know. And you're right, I think,

2543
03:05:46.280 --> 03:05:50.000
you know, as as I've gotten
older and gotten away from it and just

2544
03:05:50.159 --> 03:05:54.520
all the things I know, so
many guys that I've worked with have done

2545
03:05:54.799 --> 03:05:58.840
to to not let the American public
know what our soft operators have done over

2546
03:05:58.879 --> 03:06:03.799
the last twenty years. I think
is a is a grave injustice to not

2547
03:06:03.959 --> 03:06:07.120
only us, but also to the
American people. I think they need to

2548
03:06:07.200 --> 03:06:11.479
know sort of the heroism and the
things that they have no idea we're happening.

2549
03:06:13.719 --> 03:06:16.639
Oh absolutely, And I would I
would go so far to say not

2550
03:06:16.760 --> 03:06:18.959
even not not even just a soft
operator. It's like, you know,

2551
03:06:20.280 --> 03:06:24.959
like anybody who were was involved in
in the conflicts, anybody who was,

2552
03:06:26.280 --> 03:06:30.719
you know, like, there are
so much history there from yeah, you

2553
03:06:30.799 --> 03:06:33.399
know, you know you you mentioned
that, and you're absolutely right, I

2554
03:06:33.440 --> 03:06:39.200
shouldn't say just soft operators. For
example, I was watching Cody Alfred's podcast

2555
03:06:39.319 --> 03:06:43.959
with Sean Ryan talking about Fallujah,
and you know, I've got buddies that

2556
03:06:43.000 --> 03:06:46.799
were in Fallujah. They haven't really
talked to me about the stories, but

2557
03:06:46.959 --> 03:06:52.319
listening to his story about that is
absolutely even for me. It was like,

2558
03:06:52.440 --> 03:06:56.079
God, I was, I was
in some heinous stuff, but I

2559
03:06:56.239 --> 03:07:01.479
cannot even imagine being in that,
which which is while I actually know that

2560
03:07:01.639 --> 03:07:05.120
he talked about adults force operator that
killed Judah, saying in his podcast,

2561
03:07:05.719 --> 03:07:11.639
actually, uh, you know we
know the guy yeah talking about but but

2562
03:07:11.840 --> 03:07:13.760
yeah, you know, you you
listen to that and you're like, this

2563
03:07:13.840 --> 03:07:18.120
is a nineteen year old kid that
that type of thing that I couldn't I

2564
03:07:18.200 --> 03:07:24.040
couldn't even fathom as a you know, at my level of what that was

2565
03:07:24.159 --> 03:07:26.959
like you know, insane. Yeah, I mean, you know, we

2566
03:07:26.760 --> 03:07:31.600
meant you mentioned Guccia earlier, and
Soft had a very Gucci war in these

2567
03:07:31.719 --> 03:07:35.319
wars, and it's not that you
know, soft and like undergo stuff.

2568
03:07:35.639 --> 03:07:39.719
But there were there were like people
out at these fobs. You know,

2569
03:07:39.840 --> 03:07:43.079
conventional that we're out there for twelve
fourteen months, like hooking and jab every

2570
03:07:43.159 --> 03:07:48.920
single day without the AC one thirty, without the eight tens, you know,

2571
03:07:50.000 --> 03:07:54.360
with without all that stuff. You
know. And you know, it's

2572
03:07:54.440 --> 03:07:58.639
like I said, I've talked about
this before, but like some of the

2573
03:07:58.639 --> 03:08:03.520
people have the most respect for the
Arkansas National Guards, like they're there,

2574
03:08:03.559 --> 03:08:07.079
I don't know their cav or Bradley
like whatever. Like those guys were hooking

2575
03:08:07.120 --> 03:08:11.360
and jabing all day long in Iraq. Yeah, and you know, you

2576
03:08:11.520 --> 03:08:16.840
you bring up a great point.
And and and when I mentioned earlier talking

2577
03:08:16.959 --> 03:08:20.280
to you know, about my dad
and some of those guys in their stories,

2578
03:08:20.799 --> 03:08:24.520
you know, that's sort of the
realization for me of like, yeah,

2579
03:08:24.600 --> 03:08:28.200
I was in nasty firefights and things
like that, but you know,

2580
03:08:28.360 --> 03:08:31.399
I flew back to the fob and
went back and called my wife and had

2581
03:08:31.479 --> 03:08:35.639
chao. Yeah after that, you
know what I mean. So when you

2582
03:08:35.719 --> 03:08:41.360
talk about, uh, sort of
the level of comfort and the back half

2583
03:08:41.440 --> 03:08:45.719
for the last ten years of the
war when I fought, you know,

2584
03:08:46.120 --> 03:08:50.239
I'm not naive to think that I
was you know, in any of the

2585
03:08:50.360 --> 03:08:54.079
nastiest stuff compared to what you're talking
about there for sure, or fire wars.

2586
03:08:54.319 --> 03:08:58.000
Yeah, I definitely. I definitely
got to do the you know,

2587
03:08:58.079 --> 03:09:03.000
the Gucci side of where we flew
in and we had the advantage. Well

2588
03:09:03.040 --> 03:09:07.239
me too, Yeah, Jack,
we had we had all the air apps.

2589
03:09:07.319 --> 03:09:11.760
You got the air stacked again.
We got nasty situations and we got

2590
03:09:11.879 --> 03:09:16.360
fucked up in a lot of ways. But you know, there's which you

2591
03:09:16.440 --> 03:09:18.600
can't really compare those, you can't
come. I try not to compare myself

2592
03:09:18.680 --> 03:09:24.120
to anyone else. I think you
can't. You can't do that because I

2593
03:09:24.159 --> 03:09:26.920
think we're all all of us that
have been warfighters and we've all gone through

2594
03:09:26.959 --> 03:09:31.399
different absolutely absolutely, but there's still
that Yeah, there's still that common that

2595
03:09:31.559 --> 03:09:35.399
common thread that binds us all together
that have been through that type of thing

2596
03:09:35.440 --> 03:09:39.479
as well. Absolutely absolutely, Well, we deeply, deeply appreciate you.

2597
03:09:39.639 --> 03:09:46.120
We uh thanks for spending a Friday
night with us. Yeah, everybody,

2598
03:09:46.600 --> 03:09:50.600
check out Valhalla of Firearms Training,
check out our sponsors, AARP, Veteran

2599
03:09:50.719 --> 03:09:56.600
Report and Vitamin One, and we
will see you. Is it next Friday?

2600
03:09:56.719 --> 03:10:03.799
D Monday got injured? Yeah,
Monday the fourteenth, I think we

2601
03:10:03.920 --> 03:10:09.879
have Aaron Haleen. He's a former
EOD got injured. Now he runs ultra

2602
03:10:09.000 --> 03:10:13.680
marathons. I don't know how anybody
in EOD hasn't like how there's somebody in

2603
03:10:13.799 --> 03:10:18.799
EOD that hasn't been injured. It's
like the most stressful job, I think

2604
03:10:18.840 --> 03:10:24.479
in the military. But so we'll
see you guys Monday. Jack will be

2605
03:10:24.559 --> 03:10:30.319
back hopefully, and Nate we will
see you soon. Man, all right,

2606
03:10:30.680 --> 03:10:33.280
you can hang out for a second. We'll say goodbye to everybody else.

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03:10:33.399 --> 03:10:35.040
Thanks everybody,