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an email. We'll talk about special operations covert. Ask me any the Team
House with your hopes. Jack Murphy and David Park Welcome to The Team Mouse,
episode two hundred and twenty seven. I'm Dave Park. Uh here's my
co host, Jack Murphy. Oh, Jack's out tonight. We have a
very special guest, uh Nate Cornakia Special Forces. Oh what what rank did
you get to? Nate? Uh Strom? First Class? Okay, Special
Forces for about ten years, ten and a half years and great great stories
tonight, so uh stand by, So Nate, welcome and thanks for joining
us. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's an honor. You know,
you guys have some really impressive operators on the show. So I'm just
honored to be here. Well, we're honored to have you. So what's
your origin story? How what led you come too the military? Like?
How did you? An easy one? This is this is a really easy
one, right. So my family has a very uh, you know kind
of story military history. So my grandpa was in the eighty second, he
jumped into Normandy on D Day. My dad was a Greenbray as well,
forty six company. He was in the eight Camps in Vietnam. So for
me, that was sort of an easy decision, right, you know,
it took me a little while to get there. I went to college first
before I came in. But you know, it was one of those things,
is I really just wanted to be you know, like dad, right
and grandpa in a way because you know, sort of war heroes as your
grandpa and your father, and you kind of want to live up to do
that. I don't really necessarily think I did, because those conflicts are just
so crazy that they were in. But you know, it's it's cool that
we have such a lineage that we have in our direct mind for sure.
Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting, isn't it When you think about the
trench warfare in World War One, and then you know, like Normandy and
you know, and the Visitic Islands of World War Two, and then the
type of conflict that we had in Afghanistan Iraq, it's very different. Yeah,
and you know Vietnam as well, because you know, having a dad
and also so many of his teammates that he's still friends with in contact with.
So guys like Riley Lott, who was the n c I S of
Mike Forces for seven years, who just passed away recently. He just got
inductedto the Special fourth Solvain. Guys like that, Jim Day and mcview sog.
These are guys that you know and my dad that I grew up around
listening to their stories, right, you know, I have some pretty wild
combat stories and then I listened to their stories and I'm just like, good
job, you know, like I've been through almost nothing, you know,
comparatively in the comrade room from from the guys who came before us for sure.
So did you always know you wanted to be a Green Beret then?
So, you know, I mean I was a Green Bret for Halloween when
I was five years old, so but I still would have lost. You
know, I was an athlete all the way through college, so that was
sort of my goal. I played baseball, so that was sort of my
focus at the time, and then you know, sort of through college kind
of found that, you know, I was completely lacking purpose. I didn't
know what I wanted to do, and sort of a kind of a weird
story, just woke up randomly one day and was like, I'm gonna I'm
gonna join the military. I'm gonna follow in dad's footsteps. Luckily having a
dad that was fust forces, he knew about, you know, a eighteen
X ray contract that could get me straight to selection, so that helped me
a lot, having sort of the pathway already known from you know, having
a group guy as a dad. But that's sort of how that sort of
little pathway started for me. Was sort of a lack of purpose that led
me into you know, going for this career, which thank god I did,
because you know who knows where life would have taken me otherwise. Now,
you know, we talked to a lot of you know, guys in
particular who are older and like ninety eleven was a defining moment for them maybe
they were already in the military or they went in shortly thereafter. But for
you, because you went in in twenty thirteen, correct, yep, so
for you, they're already go ahead. Well, yeah, I was gonna
say, you know, for me, nine to eleven was I was in.
I was in in high school, so referen high school. So I
don't think I really registered. You know, obviously I knew, you know,
what a terrible tragedy wasn't whattnot. But I don't think I had registered.
What it meant as if had I been a little bit older and already
at the age to be able to join the military at the time. And
I think sort of by the time, you know, I was eighteen nineteen,
I already planned on going to college and doing sports and whatnot, that
that sort of wasn't something I was even thinking about. So yeah, a
little bit differently, Yeah, I guess, And what was your awareness of
the war up at that point? Because we had been in Iraq for you
know, ten years. We've been in Afghanistan for twelve. Yeah, so
I mean I definitely had friends from high school that joined, you know,
and I had buddies that I went to that actually went to college with that
had been in Fellujiah and whatnot, and you know they had gotten out of
the service after that and they were in college now. So obviously, you
know, I had the awareness of that, and still you know, still
followed the conflict quite a bit because of my dad, you know what I
mean, We're still definitely in a military family and followed that very closely.
And yeah, so I think it's I don't know, it's one of those
weird things again for me, more so of you know, I've always been
a huge patriot, coming from a family the type of family come in,
but more so for me, it was wanting to like live up to what
my dad achieved. And he didn't just achieve that. My dad's in staying
achiever all around. Right, He was a Green Beret, he became a
politician for sixteen years, the lawyer for forty years. So I mean he's
hit the whole gambit of life success. But so for me, really that
was the big thing is following and footsteps of Dad. More so now I
found sort of patriotism and then everything not more patriotism, but sort of love
of the military and all that as I went through the military, but up
front that's more of what it was. Then sort of love of country,
you know, the typically that type of thing. Mine was more of a
family traditional type of thing. Yeah, so you get the eighteen X ray
program, you go, did you go to a Fort Benning? Yeah,
yeah, yep, so the way, so the way the at least when
I went through, right, it's been eleven years now, but the program
basically sends you to basic training and to airborne school and then now provided you
you know, make it through basic training, right, but and then guarantees
you to go to spect Forces selection. That's all I guarantees is a chance
to go to selection. So yeah, I went to four Betting four months
in basic training and then you go straight to airborne school from basic, so
you're right down the street, you do your airborne school and then you drive
up to North Carolina in process and get ready to go to selection. So
four months did so did you go to the infantry basic? After? It
was the whole so you got an an MOS out of that. Well,
so no, so we do. So you did your typical sixteen weeks infantry
and then or basic training and then infantry ai T. That's part of the
eighteen x ray course. And I think they do that because you know,
honestly, like ninety percent of those guys that are going to wash out and
go to the infantry, so that way they already have the infantry MOS,
but you don't. Actually you still carry the eighteen x MOS the entire time
until you either wash out and become a eleven Bravo or you make it and
you become the eighteen series. How that works? Now? Would did you
do anything to prep because obviously you don't get into in shape really in basic
training, So how did you prep you for SFAs you get actually a negative
shape? You know, I came in as a college athlete in incredible shape.
I was ready to go for sure, and basic training was massive rance
right or brought my fistical fitness levels way down. But as the eighteen x
ray you go to before you go to selection, there's a course called I
think it's sopsy stuff Operations, Preparation, preparation and conditioning. So it's like
a three week course all the eighteen x rays go to that basically is just
three weeks of getting back in shape. You're going to do some land navigation,
learn stuff like that sort of prep you to go to selection, which
is actually a huge benefit to go to that course. So that's sort of
like get lets you get back into the condition you were and honestly, you
know, the eighteen X rays because of that course, kind of go into
selection at a much higher fitness level on average than anybody else. Really.
Yeah, so it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be more successful, but
usually you know, those guys eighteen x rays are getting the best times on
the runs and the rooks and all that type of stuff. Right, dude,
for the shop, See, did were they smart about the fitness and
the conditioning or did they just kind of smoke your bags? No? No,
no, it's it. Well, when I went through, it's an
awesome course. They had guys that, like the whole course was designed around
actually functional fitness recovery you ate, you know, like four or five thousand
calories a day. I mean, in awesome course to actually prep you.
It wasn't your typical military like we're just gonna break you before you go to
selection. It was. It's actually designed to get you fit physically ready to
go to selection. So probably one of the better courses that are part that's
part of the entire two course, but that's because it's not just a smoker.
Yeah, and then do you go directly? Did you go directly from
that into SFAs or was a wait period? I think I think it was
probably like a week between. So, yeah, you come out and then
pretty much go right away right after that. And what did you think of
SFAs when you were there selection? Oh? Man, you know at that
point. You know, it's funny. I had you know, I was
fortunate and I had a Greenbray as a dad. So I knew what the
two course and tail right, I knew the structure of it. I knew
what f FAS entailed. I knew the all of all the events. But
you know, I only had four months in the military and I was a
little bit older. So I was twenty three or twenty twenty four when I
when I joined. So but I mean, maturity wise, when you're around
guys can brain your battalion and you know E five E six is from the
eighty second and you've been in the military for four months, you know,
you really don't know anything. For me, I sort of just tried to
carry as my dad, getting the advice as much weight as you can,
and you know, sort of just be respectful to people and keep your mouth
shut for the most part, you know, because I was you know,
I had college, so it was an E four. I came in as
a as a E four, but you know, I didn't know, I
didn't know anything. So that was kind of my thing was be the guy
that you know. I was big. I'm six foot two, two hundred
and twenty pounds, so big, strong, carry weight, not complain,
which you know can take you a long way in the eyes of your peers
in a situation like s AS for sure. Yeah. And then so you
you graduate SFS and then which MS did you choose or what's chosen for you?
Well, so you get a wish list at selection right where you rank
from first last or you know, medic communicator, engineer, weabon, sergeant,
and so my wish list I put engineer first. My dad was an
engineer, so I wanted to do that, and then communicator second, which
is what I ended up getting so I ended up getting the eighteen echo MLS,
which you know, I'm not. I was never a huge fan of
radio as the whole way through my career, but you know I was.
You know, I made sure I was good enough to get my team comms
at all times. But I was never a radio nerd. Everybody always thought
I was an eighteen Bravo, you know, A group whenever they met me
ended up what my MLS was. Yeah. So so you you made sure
that they didn't drop a fill, but you weren't big on wave propagation theory
and everything. Yeah, exactly right, I kid, I make sure you
got comms on THEE one fifty two. I knew how to set up the
SDN lawlessly. Other than that, like, don't ask me if you're the
commander, don't ask me to do any wazoo stuff. Right, we're not,
We're not going down that road. Yeah, I'll get my dream.
I'll get my junior to do that. You know. That's sort of where
I got two later back career. Yeah, and then what so then where
did you get assign what? What team did you go to? What group?
Yeah? So interesting? So I initially was had Russian as the languages
and was supposed to go to tenth group, and then I ended up breaking
breaking my foot on a ruck at twelve mile ruck. About three miles into
the ruck, I fell into a or stepped into a pothole that because they
had been raining on the side of the roads in North Carolina, stepped into
it and it was like three feet deep, fell in, broke my foot.
Ended up completing the ruck in time, which I mean I probably would
have made it through the shoe course out I had not done that. But
because of that, it reset me and I had to read you that phases
the course and wait for my leg or my foot to heel obviously, and
then I got Chinese Mandarin as I got reset back into the system, and
then first group. So that's how you ended up getting over the first group.
And then yeah, I got to I got the first group with my
group of guys, and then you know, you go into the start major's
office of battalion and he sends you over the company and you go into another
startan major's office your first day, and me and my buddy who went through
the whole two course together, both eighteen echoes, walked into the same company.
He went into start Major's office first, and he walked out and had
a slot on the Halo team. And so I walked out. I walked
in second and sat down and start Major pointed at the board and he says,
all right, we got one spot on a team for eighteen echo if
you want to be on a team, And obviously that's all I wanted,
and he's all right, can you swim? Can you swim? And I'm
like, oh god, He's like, well, you're head to do the
dive team. So that's how I started my career and ended up on a
combat dive team for three and a half four years. So yeah, that's
how that's where I ended up on my first team. So when you went
to Mandarin was it was it there brag or did they send you a d
l I? How did that work for you? And how long was it?
So? Yeah, so language school at least when I went through,
was right there at Braga And this is six months, eight hours a day,
and we had like an instructor from North Carolina State that was from Taiwan.
So I mean you definitely are immersed and learned the language pretty well.
It's you know, six months straight eight hours a day of your target language
with Chinese Mandarin? Is it this brutal to maintain? So you know,
I was pretty I could speak pretty well my you know, first couple of
years out and then you know, ten years later that OPI was was pretty
ugly, right, Yeah. I struggled through to to get my one one
yeast of the time by Dean. Yeah. So what was it like getting
to first group, which is you know, focused on Asia. Basically you
go to a dive team. Did you go like what was your setup for?
Were they showing rotations, you know, to Afghanistan. Were you set
up directly for like pre scuba. Yeah, so interesting sort of how that
works, right because at that time, that was twenty fifteen, sixteen ish,
and we were really in the height of that eighteen month rotation all the
groups right where six months in Afghanistan, twelve months off, six months in
Afghanistan and twelve months off. That's what all the teams were doing. We
were rotating in and out and replacing everybody. So that was the entire focus
of the battalion in our company when I got there. So I got there
immediately went on a trip to the Philippines, which was cool. But that's
just the first trip, just a you know, training partner force of deployment,
got back and then had a little bit of time to be able to
try to go to dive school. Was in pre dive ended up tearing my
meniscus in my right knee, and so I wasn't able to finish dive school.
And then by the time I had recovered, and then we were straight
into PMT for the next rotation of Afghanistan, which for you know, people
who don't know, it's not just you don't just deploy for six months Afghanistan,
right, you have that big train up that's usually like nine months,
that incorporates multiple PMTs, cephalic, all these different things you do as a
team to get ready for that combat deployment. So it's really like a you
know, twelve to fourteen month sort of total of train up and deployment.
So I wasn't able to go to dive school because of that. Came back
and when I came back from that trip, I had to have surgery on
both my knees. So by the time I recovered from that, we had
another different trip we were going on too, So I actually never ended up
getting to go to dive school after even being on a team for three a
half four years, and there's another couple of guys on the team that were
the same way. We just never got an opportunity to go because that wasn't
the focus. So, you know, you're rotating out of combat, you
know, the paylo or the dive nobody really not that they don't care about
that, right, but like there's no water in Afghanistan, right, So
that wasn't the big So the focus was, you know, could you you
want to miss PMT and on all the train up for war to go to
dive school with your team, or do you want to be ready to go
to war? So it's kind of situation that we're in what was that what
was that six month period or you know whatever a train up like, because
obviously there was probably quite a bit of combat experience on your team at that
point time, right, A ton a ton, so especially on that team
for that went on. Our twenty eighteen Afghanistan rotation was honestly it was like
an all star team. Now, I had no experience at the time,
so I can't say I was at all start. But the senior level group
of the team that had basically been hand picked and put together and we ended
up having the highest one of the highest profile missions in country because of it.
And yeah, I mean our senior we had two We had two eighteen
deltas who both had like seven years team time, right, the junior had
like seven years team time, and the most senior eighteen Delta, who I
ended up being on a team with for like five six years, really like
one of my biggest mentors. He had like five combat rotations already. The
team sergeant had three or four. Everybody on the team other than a couple
of the new guys had multiple rotations through already, so which was amazing for
me on a first trip. Yeah. Well, I basically just got to
soak up so much knowledge, and by the time I had gone through full
PMT and my first combat rotation, I was so far beyond the average amount
of experience for somebody at my point in career combat experience wise, because of
those guys on my team, you know what I mean. So yeah,
yeah, So with uh, you mentioned that your junior delta had you know,
seven years, right, Yeah, I think at that point he had
like six or seven years, and he was the junior because our senior had
even more time than that, And I mean obviously probably could have gone somewhere
to be a senior. Was it was a team just very tight, no,
So he was the senior, right, and then he was the senior
for like two he had been the senior for like two or three years.
And then our other older senior who used to be So I'll pull back.
So when he was a junior, a new guy in the team, his
senior, they're to still the same two guys. This was years before I
got to It was his senior, right, and then he went on a
broadening assignment for three years, came back to the ODA, and so his
old senior was now his senior again, even though he had been the senior
delta for like three years up to that point. So that's sort of the
joke of Blake. You know, you're the new junior eighteen delta even though
you've been a senior for He was the like the most senior eighteen delta in
the company other than his old senior who came back. So that's just how
I have a level of experience this specific ODIA had with guys, multiple guys
like that in you know, MLS is like that, which is pretty rare
to have that. That's amazing. Real quickly when you give a shout out
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you, Nate. So what what was it like your first deployment. You
know, you have this long history of family in combat and now your you're
deploying. Oh yeah, man, that's that's a good question. I think
anybody's asking that question before. So, you know, going into my first
appointment, I actually felt quite confident just because of the men around me on
that team, right, I mean I had just guys that were honestly sort
of legends in you know, the I W was say, sort of legends
in the company and the battalion get at already, and so that that gives
you a lot more confident than you know, I knew that this team had
been put together sort of handpicked by the command team to do a really high
profile mission. But you know, I also knew in the back of my
head like, oh shit, I have no idea what I'm doing. Right,
And for example, you know, right out the gate are very first
combat operation. We had the one sixtieth sixtieth fly us in and we landed
on the fucking X. Sorry my language, No, you're fine, you
can cut okay. You know we landed on the X, right, So
I jump out of it with one sixtieth bird look up and the compound is
boom right there, and there's murder holes everywhere, right, so I'm like,
oh, holy shit, well this is for real, right, But
you know, the way our team started had set it up. He sort
of had but sort of each of the new guys with one of the really
experienced seniors. But then he also not the very first couple missions, so
we get our feet wet. But then he also made us new guys the
element leaders and sort of had the more experienced guys there with us, you
know, sort of as gatekeepers to keep us in line. But in doing
that sort of you know, like massively increased our experience so fast because we
were so integrated into the planning process and actually leading elements doing all stuff typically
senior guys would be doing. So we learned fast, right. And we
also we had a lot we had a really high op tempo. We were
doing missions about every five days pretty much, all period of darkness, nighttime
raids all. We have talked about it before the show, but I so
we were in the Candahar area, operating through that sort of Heroin Silk Road
for people who don't know from you know, a pack stand up through Candahar
into Helmand and then out towards Iran. There's a lot of Talban activity in
that area, so we were really targeting big facilities, taking down not really
looking for drugs at all. We weren't doing an acid stuff, but you
know, taking out sort of big targets along that road because the Talban you
know, typically wanted to hold that area, those areas. So so yeah,
for the first deployment, I mean it was a pretty wild first deployment,
right is it was super connectic. We were in tons of gunfights,
tons of missions, so you know, it was peaked to the fire real
real fast. And yeah, but but awestome at the same at the same
time, you know, it was kind of that trip was kind of like
two three combat deployments in one. When you when you take the amount of
stuff we did, what year was it that you why didn't Afghanistan? So
in twenty eighteen, So we I tell people that. So basically, like
I think we were on thirty d eight pre deployment leave when Donald Trump,
you know, made that famous statement that we are not here to nation build,
we are here to kill terrorists. So that was like three weeks before
we landed into Afghanistan. The morrow we changed and we went after it,
so we were there to basically take it to the Taliban and then part of
our part of our battalion was also clearing out the name of our valley and
basically was that was the time we pretty much eliminated ISIS out of afghan staying
up through the name of har valley. That was all sort of that same
timeline. On that same trip, MYODIA wasn't operating in that area, but
are some of our teams in the company were on those big ISIS clearing operations
at the same time. Just to give it an idea of what time frame
that plus so it's twenty eighteen, what was the SF mission at that time?
Like was it like Robin Sage you said you went you were flying on
the one sixty if going connectict. So there wasn't a lot of the sort
of unconventional warfare style, correct, No, not really. So we my
ODEA was working with the Third Sock Commandos and the Third Sock A and a
Special Forces guys and now it was pretty much every mission we did was nighttime,
right, I mean over and over and over again. Everything you know.
There was really no nation building or there wasn't no partner Force development.
We barely ever trained with the guys. We pretty much just went on missions,
so sort of that U dub type of thing, we didn't do any
of that. It was all point target. We are there to destruct or
disrupt and destroy as much of the Taliban Talban tap capabilities as we can in
our area. So that was the whole focus for them. And how how
was it working with the Afghan stock? Yeah? Yeah, so the commandos
were rough, right, real rough, you had to We ran in some
definite sketchiness a lot of the time. But we had the actual A and
A Special Forces guys, which those are the guys that go through a real
Q course with Special Forces instructors. Some of those guys have been doing it
for fifteen years. They've been fighting the Taliban for the entire conflict. And
those guys, some of them were legit. I mean, I wouldn't say
that at the level of an American Special Forces guy, but I mean they
no bullshit, some of these guys. So when we had the the ANASF
guys, we were able to really you know, take it to the Taliban
in a lot of ways because they were willing to fight, right, they
were willing to get their hands dirty, whereas the commandos, you know,
when when the bullets started flying, they were sort of like, no,
we're not really actually interested in in this war thing, right, We're just
gonna lay down and sort of hide and let you guys take care of it.
So, so how did that work for you? Guys? You had
I assume a twelve man O D A. And then you had your an
indigenous partner force that would go in with you. Would ye, would they
lead the assault? Would you lead this assault? How did that all work
out? So? You know, they the tactics we use have changed year
by year by year by year and what and what we do. So at
that point it had gotten to basically single file movements everywhere. So we would
obviously planning the missions, we led the missions. So I would as an
element leader, I would have you know, the Afghan team leader next to
me for that element, and I would be telling him what to do,
and he would then tell his guys what to do. Right, I would
say, Hey, we're going to this compound, We're going to this fumpound,
that sort of thing. But but yeah, so I'm sorry back,
but what was the no just about how just about how the dynamics was with
you and them, Oh, how the assaults would work. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, So we would have again we had our twelve man team,
but we also would try to plus it up with a lot of different enablers.
Right, So we had a Air Force Combat Controller that did all of
our fires type of stuff. We had a SAWDA, we had two EOD
texts. We would bring out usually four or five uplift guys, so infantry
guys that would be security for the commander and the CCT. So we would
have probably about twenty Americans total on the ground and then usually fifty to sixty
Afghans because we were working with the s F guys most of the time,
we didn't need as many Afghans to be able to get as much done.
So that would usually be about the structure, and we worked pretty much in
four elements so that we could clear large, large areas because the compounds,
you know, it's not like Iraq and Afghanistan everything is. The compounds are
so spread out between hundred and twenty hundred two hundred meters between each compound,
So you'd work in four different elements with two or three Americans on each element
and that way you could work together as a big organism to clear large swaths
of compounds that way. So that's sort of how that was set up for
clearing operations. I guess you could call it through a big villages, I
guess, right. And if you're flying with sixtieth, I mean obviously you're
doing operations similar to what the Rangers are doing or Tier one elements are doing.
When did when did SF sort of move into that? Do you know
when SF moved into that role when they started flying one sixtieth and doing those
direct hits. So we didn't have one sixtieth for every mission, right,
that was like when we got lucky and really at one sixty if they picked
the missions, so when they're like, oh that's the cool one that they're
gonna do, we'll fly them. Most of the time we had regular regular
army pilots. But but yeah, so now everybody sort of had different mission
sets, right, Like we had other SF teams that we're doing sort of
the drugs CID type stuff we had over in like helm in Hurrah and areas
like that. We had teams doing the big ISIS battalion size clearing operations where
you had a whole company of SF teams moving through valleys, so everybody sort
of had a different mission set in that regard. But I think that started
more around like twenty fifteen sixteen, as we went away from VSO in twenty
thirteen and we went back to the big bases. Yeah, so that's because
we would fly in from we lived on Candahar, and we would fly in
from Candahar to hit these targets and fly back. So I think that's that's
kind of when we went away from VSO. That's sort of when we transitioned
to sort of that more conventional style point target rate type. Yeah, for
the senior guys on your team, the guys who had been back and forth,
what was their opinion of SF doing like Kinetic Verse VSO and things like
that. Yeah, So quite a few guys on my team they're prior.
They're prior trips were VSO trips. So that's really when that transitioned. Sort
of twenty twelve they were doing VSO and then the next trip they were doing
what we were doing. You know, I mean, honestly, like living
living conditions, you know, it's sort of a lot better when you've got
shi fi and you're living on taff and there's surf and turf at the chow
hall when you get back from doing your raid, comparatively to living six months
in a mud hut. Yeah, but I think they I think they enjoyed
VS THO more, you know, because you got to do so much.
You were somewhere immersed in in the fight and in the mission, and you
were doing stuff during the day, and you could actually drive around and like
and do all kinds of different stuff. Whereas us it was kind of like
we're on base and we do hits right when we come back. That's there
wasn't a whole lot of being immersed out in the culture or or anything like
that. That's sort of the first ten years of the war what SF was
doing. Yeah. Yeah, we had had We've had Scott Manon, who
was one of the guys I think who really pushed to get those VSO operations
going. And then I think before before we saw any results, we just
kind of like the government just shut them down. You know. The thing
is, though, is that with VSO up in the twenty twelve, I
mean we had pretty much taken over the country. Yeah, I mean it
was super effective. Once we you know, figured out how to do it,
and we decided, oh, we're just gonna draw down VSO and give
all this back to the Taliban for example, and some of the areas and
the missions. I'm sure we'll get into talking about. We were going into
areas that some of my buddies had taken in VSO three or four years before
that. We had already owned that. Now we're going back into do targets
hit targets on, you know what I mean. So it didn't in that
regard, it didn't make any sense. It was like, what are we
doing? Why did we just give this all back to them for no reason?
Yeah? Yeah, And for people who were watching or listening VSO or
viliage stability operations, which are similar to like what the A camps in Vietnam,
the Marines, the close I think of the close action platoons uh or
civilized I think close action, but basically creating those sort of domains of control
by you know, not taking over village, but but inhabiting the village,
helping the people out and creating the stability that way. Yeah. So the
biggest way they would do that is you know, and and Afghanistan is very
rural and tribal. Right, so a team would be in and they would
be with the village elder and then they would develop, you know, a
police force or a fighting force, and they would be able to sort of
secure their own territory against the talban. That was sort of the idea behind
that, and then enable them to do that. Yeah, but obviously,
even if vsos are more effective, kinetic is sexier a lot. Yeah,
Yeah, it briefs better, right, It briefs better, it does for
sure, right, and it's it's a lot cooler to uh, you know,
set and it's our a team in the middle of the night with AC
one thirties and a tens and yeah, and I SR watching all of it.
So, yeah, so you said your first stop, you guys landed
on your the the X which is right on the target. Was that Was
that your first firefight or what? What? None? Was your first firefight?
Oh? Yeah, no, So, I mean we got in a
few our very first operation, we did get in a little bit of a
firefight towards the end, but I mean now it scuffled out pretty quick.
Our first and then so and then our next couple operations we got in in
smaller ones ticks here and there, nothing like too crazy to talk about.
But the biggest, first, biggest firefight that I got into was, or
our team got into, was the mission I was telling about earlier where we
got near ambushed twice. And you know, all the guys on my team
have our awards and upwards of our at Delta as a silver Star stuff like
that. So that's that was the huge like when you talk about real firefight
when I think about now. We had a few more after that later in
the trip as well, big ones, but that was actually sort of towards
the front of the deployment when it comes to a major major gunfights. So
can you set it up and walk us through these these near ambushes? What
was the mission profile, what did it look like? How did it all
go down? Yeah, so I'll give it just a backstory to what we
were doing. So again, we were going into an area in tern Cott,
which is you know, maybe forty minutes north of Candahart, which again
this area had been completely controlled by us during the VSO and now we were
going back in to try to sort of take that area again. We had
done a few operations sort of through the valley in that area, and this
one we had figured was probably more of a taliban's stronghold. We had a
really good intelligence sergeant on my team at this deployment who was able to find
all kinds of crazy stuff, but he had sort of figured out that this
was most likely where a big stronghold was, where a lot of potentially taliban
leadership were at. So that's why we were going in to hit this target.
And so with the way it worked because of the terrain, we had
to plan on infilling the helicopters about two kilometers west of the main compound we
were going to try to hit for whatever reason, I remember exactly why,
but we had to do it that way, and we were gonna infill both
helicopters forty sevens with about sixty guys in two different elements, and then clear
from west to east to get to these compounds that we were trying to get
to. So the way I the way I like to explain it, So
anyway, I'll just say we we land on the c age forty seven My
element does we have two elements about two groups of fifteen guys, and I'm
I'm main element leader of this mission, so I'm basically the head guy in
charge of our element, and we land sort of offset of this big open
field, which there's a on the Google imagery kind of a big dilapidated compound
about one hundred meters away. And as I'm sure you know an ISSR,
you can never really trust exactly what that imagery looks like, right, that
might be a lot different than it was. But it looked like it was
old and dead, and you know, no Americans had been in this area
for four or five years, so we figured there's no reason for the Talban
to you know, be randomly posted up in this compound, you know,
two kilometers away from their big hub. So we land on the CGE forty
seven, sort of in this wooded area, and we're walking through the trees.
And the best way I like to describe it so people can visually see
it through their eyes as I walk you through how this all happens is imagine
you're sort of walking through the forest and you're coming up to an open area,
you know how that looks coming out of the forest, and think about
you're basically on the fifty yard line of a football field, and so you
got the big open football field in front of you, and you look to
your left and the end zone. There's basically a compound that is the size
of the entire end zone. And it's night obviously, and so we come
out and we start walking towards that compound because in the plan we plan on
just bypassing this compound, because we had two kilometers ago. We didn't have
time to just clear all this random dilapidated stuff. Right, So we're moving
up towards the compound. We're hitting probably the thirty thirty yard line, twenty
yard line, ten yard line, and then we turned to horn only move
alongside the compound to come around and bypass it. So we're paralleling the building
now, right. So as you're walking, the building is to your left
about ten meters and we get most of my element out in front, you
know, and we're in a big open field in front of this compound.
And all of a sudden, as we're walking next to this compound, all
hell breaks looks just fucking gun shots and machine gun fire. It's just absolutely
insane, and so at first it's what, you know, what in the
hell is going on? Let me back up real quick. So as I'm
walking up to it, I'm talking to the predator drone and he tells me
the slant is zero zero zero. There's no one inside this compound, and
you guys are good to go, right, So that's that's how we're feeling
as we're going to move around. So anyway, all of a sudden boom,
you know, out of the movies, shit is going heywire gun shots
everywhere, machine gun fire. Turns out there wasn't zero We find this out
later, right, we don't know this in the moment, but we find
out later there wasn't zero guys inside. There was ten Talban insurgents inside.
And this was a built in defensive fighting position with a bunker, all kinds
of ship. They had, pkms, RPG's everything. So we basically are
now out in the open and we've just been near ambushed, right, And
so I and immediately all our Afghans laid down right, and I'm the element
leader, so I'm trying to figure out what the hell is going on,
and I stee off right right next to me to my front, to my
right are my eighteen. Bravo's got the Mark forty eight machine gun and he's
basically got it on full auto, spraying it into this compound trying to get
us fire suppression, so we stopped getting shot at As my eighteen Charlie runs
up to the wall and he starts throwing grenades over the top of the wall
just to try to get the fire suppression. And I'm basically picking up the
Afghan team leader and guys by the back of the caller because I'm as an
element leader. I'm like, I got we have to get out of the
open field battle droll want ouph us something? I don't know. We can't
just stand and stand the open field. We're all gonna get shredded. The
guy from the guys next to me, he goes down, he gets shot.
So guys are getting shredded as this is happening, and so as as
this is all and again it's it's it's crazy to talk about this because you
know how long this lasted. I still don't know. Was it two minutes,
was it fifteen minutes, I don't know. But as I'm trying to
get these, you know, and I'm firing firing back right, trying to
grab guys. We've got to move. They won't. They're just immediately dropping
back down on the ground. And as I'm trying to do that. My
senior eighteen delta, the senior senior I was talking about, he had like
five combat deployments. She just dude, what he absolutely crazy. He would
love run. He loved to run towards bill bullets. Right, he comes
springing up past me full speed, running straight at this this near ambush and
yells at me as he comes by, like, hey, we gotta go
man. Yeah, And so we realized like that it's there. The Afghans
aren't going to do anything. This is too crazy. It's just four SF
guys that basically have to eliminate this threat. So my teammates, Yeah,
they're up front, they're throwing grenades. I see the guy right next to
me here in the doorway. He gets shot and goes down. At first,
I don't know if it's one of my buddies or not, because my
teammate was right by him as well, And so I run over, grab
him, drag him out of the way, realize it's an Afghan, so
sort of throw him off to the side, tell my EXO, hey put
tourniquets on him, which funny story about that, or so we brought out
the company XO. He wasn't a special Force. This guy, we just
brought him out so he could get a you know, a combat operation,
his first, his first ever time out on a mission. And five minutes
into the objective, we're in the near ambush and you know, he's getting
bodies thrown out and his eyes are that big, you know. But so
yeah, you know, my teammates were still throwing grenades, the firing is
going on. At some point, my eighteen bravo, he is now racking
in another two hundred round drum, still on fullato, and sprang in the
doorway that somehow, at some point we had killed enough guys through you know,
firing in the doorway, throwing grenades, all that type of different stuff,
throwing grenades into the bunker that they were firing out of that I think
we killed six that way. That the last four panicked and they ran out
the back of the compound. So it's sort of it started to die down,
and then our CCT told us, hey, we have you got four
guys fleeing out the back. He didn't, and so we didn't know if
they're riding maneuver on us or whatnot. So the AC one thirty says,
hey, we're gonna strike these guys, and so with one of five rounds
and there's forty meters away from us, you know, so it's everybody run
up, dive behind the compound walls as they've strike a couple different times,
and so that all starts to die down and we realize, okay, we've
we've eliminated everything here. We call in metabas, you know, we start
meta back and our guys that had been shot, and you know, that's
we're like, okay, we're ten minutes into the operation. We still have
to conduct this operation. We still have to hit this this compound, and
there's still you know, another even worse near ambush further on in this operation.
So, because we had in filled on two different elements, our second
helicopter was supposed to land in that open field in front of that building,
and for whatever reason, the pilot screwed up and overflew the airfield and landed
three hundreds passed it, and had he not, he would have landed that
stage forty seven ten meters in front of all of that, which would have
be and you know, immediate catastrophe. Just by the stroke of God that
we didn't have a page forty seven with forty guys just immediately shot down on
them. Yeah, I was wondering because when you describe the field with the
compound, but it was an old compound and it sort of led to,
you know, to the stronghold if almost that if almost like the tactical leaders
of the Taliband were like, if they sat down, they'll set down in
this field and this is where you'll hit them. I mean, you know,
they didn't have ten guys in there for no reason and built that into
a giant DFP for no reason. So I think, you know, because
they don't do that just everywhere, right, and we didn't expect that at
all. So I think, you know, it kind of made sense because
it was that that was the only place that we could figure out where we
could land based off of the terrain, and then they had you know,
this huge defensive fighting force ready for us right there where you know, we
we decided was the best place to land. So, so how was this
compound set up that because you you mentioned the walls and then the doorways like
the opening to the compound, did they have elevated positions too or were they
mostly shooting through the doorway. So the way it worked. There's you know,
you're big like eight eight foot compound mud walls with big doorways in between.
There was a few of those. They also had sort of a bunker
built that was raised sort of out front of the walls. And then and
then and then buildings sort of drop set about five feet back from the compound
walls that they were back off set in those buildings basically taking shots out from
the buildings through doorways, through secondary doorways. Does that makes sense? Wow,
it was a good set up. Yeah, so they yeah, they
were, they were ready for us for sure. But then yeah, and
then I can go into uh, you know, further into the operation where
the second year ambush has absolutely please so so uh so, how do you
guys consolidate? Does does the second team move to the compound or do you
guys move to them? So at this point, now they're way because they
overflew us about three hundred meters. They're towards the objective and they basically got
off and they and they kept moving, so the front element now is probably
like seven eight hundred meters ahead of us. They're just trucking towards the objective.
So we you know, we get our guys met have backed out,
I get everybody back together. We end up bipping the DFB, you know,
blowing it up so they can't use it anymore, and then we pretty
much just high tail it out into you know, the open field, and
now we're you know, going full speed bypassing everything to try to catch up
to our front ELP. So that's that's sort of how how we're doing.
So we so nothing much happens there other than us, you know, moving
through the field about a thousand meters And is the fun element? Are they
moving because because basically now the targets compromised, they know somebody's there, so
are they just are they're moving out, trying to stay ahead of the trying
to keep the like the tactical edge. Basically, yeah, for sure.
And you know, while this is happening, we're there's all kinds of moving
and activity in the compounds. They're approaching, and we have our air striking
targets NonStop out in front of them, right, So they're moving to basically
bring a fight, as as our air is prepping the objective there for them.
So we kind of have two different things in two different places going on
simultaneously and you know, once we we also really because of the way at
infield, they couldn't really come back to help us anyway because they would have
potentially been moving back towards us that way. So they pretty much, you
know, decided maybe the team start and made the decision, Hey, to
keep going. We're gonna keep going. You guys obviously are okay, and
you and you guys will catch up with us once you get that situation figured
out. Yeah. But yeah, So then, so we had basically moved
through that open field, and our front element had gotten to a compound probably
about fifty meters away from the final objective, and we had pretty much caught
up to them, and we're basically a compound back from them. That we
got into a compound, we decided to sort of take a tactical pause,
and then we started getting chatter on the turp phones and is SR that there
was another compound right next to us, basically in between us and the front
element. That there was chatter that they were gonna they were setting up another
ambush for us to walk through in between the compounds. So me and the
commander made the decision, Hey, we're gonna stand by for a second.
We're gonna have the apaches level this compound with hell fire rockets so that we
can move up and support the front element, right, so that we don't
get ambushed again. Because at this point we've taken a bunch of casualties,
we can't really afford for something like that to happen. So as we're prepping
that strike for that to happen, all of a sudden and I'm sitting in
the compound sort of We've been moving east this entire time, and I'm looking
at the compound wall towards you know, our lead element is. Yeah,
I know, they're in front of me, on the other side of this
compound wall. And again, out of a nowhere boom, all hell breaks
loose machine gun fire. We can I can see the tracers of machine gun
fire flying over the top of the compound walls towards us. So we know,
we can't tell exactly what's happening, but we know, oh shit,
our front element is right here where all this is going on. And so
I again, I didn't see this with my eyes because we couldn't get up
to actually fee over the top of the compound wall. So this comes from
obviously my buddies and their valleward citations and everything of what happens here. But
so as we're waiting for the strike to come in, they were moving around
a compound sort of into a hallway between two compounds, and then as they
got into this hallway they basically got ambushed again. Except for them, they
had the Taliban. We're ready and we're throwing grenades over the top of the
walls down into the hallway that they were all in. So three of my
teammates who are in that hallway, they all one of the grenades lands between
my eighteen Charlie's feet, I mean literally between his feet, blows up,
blows his pants off, I mean completely fucks him up. The guy behind
him, all three of them get blasted by grenades. The Afghans get blasted.
And then at the end of the hallway after they did this, they
had a PKM set up, so it was yeah, it was just fatal
funnel shred machine gun grenades coming over the top of guys. It's just about
as worse situation as you can get to. The two of the s F
guys were completely basically blown off the off out of the hallway into this colvert
ditch and a bunch of the Afghans got shredded, and it was basically our
eighteen delta and who had just been hit by the grenade, mind you,
and the Afghan team leader who had been shot in the face, were the
only two guys coherent enough to keep fighting, and they somehow fought through this
hallway and killed the dude at the end of the hallway with the PKM and
eliminated that and our eighteen delta then drug out obviously the two SF guys first
got down behind cover, went back drug out all the Afghans, and then
he ended up obviously treating all those dudes as we all then got back together.
And at that point we had taken so many casualties that we got forced
off the X. I mean, we hit our we had our brain fart
what you call it when you take too many casualties anyway, like the mission
credit. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah,
so much of your fighting force is now incapacitated that you have to move off
the objective. And we had to emergency infill because we had taken so many,
so many casualties, and that just turned into a big casovac. You
know, up to an open field that we could get the helicopters into to
get all our guys out, you know, shot and blowing up and all
of the stens when you guys are making this infill or this when you guys
are actually doing the sex fill, Like, are you still receiving fire or
is the air suppressing that? Pretty well? No, so yeah, so
at this point, the air and again we had an AC one thirty on
station. We had two A tens, two F fifteens, two apaches.
So this at this point, you know, because you get you get everything
sent to you when you're in this tainous of a firefight. You know how
that works, right, So at this point we had every asset available in
the entire area above us. And yeah, they just air once once they
realized we had taken and they're watching this happen as well, you know that
we had taken so much, so many casualties and so much damage. They
just started leveling basically that entire compound in defense of friendlies, which allowed us
to basically pull everybody off the X. And yeah, they basically had their
heads completely suppressed down to where those guys, you know, they're not popping
out to try to shoot us at that point, there's so much hair watching
them. One of the things you mentioned earlier was that the rules of engagement
had changed just before you guys went in. What had they done and how
did they change for you guys. Yeah, so there were two different rows
for us, depending on whether you were Talban or ISIS. Right, the
way it had worked, it got worked for For ISIS it was kill on
site, sort of that Fallujah style military age mail. If you'r ISIS,
you're getting shot in the face, even if you're on the toilet unarmed,
doesn't matter. For the Taliban, it was now basically imminent danger and hostile
intent, right, which you know how that works, right, So basically
you're out at night and you're doing sketchy stuff, even if you're not armed,
if you're moving in the middle of the night to maybe go and place
an ID or whatnot, you can be considered a threat. So that's what
that's what we the ROE changed too. And you know before that it was,
you know, especially in the Obama era, it had gotten to the
point of basically you had to receive fire before you could even engage a target,
even if you were watching Taliban maneuver on your position, weren't allowed to
engage until you actually received fire. So sort of went from that too,
you know, taking the chains off the dog. And you know, if
you're there doing dumb stuff in an area you shouldn't be, you're probably not
going to make it out well. And you know, because you had mentioned
like the AC one thirty taken out the maneuver element that had you know,
flood the compound and yeah, and you know that was that was a discussion
for a very long time. Are they squirters because you can't shoot squirters,
You can't shoot somebody running away. But so many times these people were running
to better positions, they were running to cashes exactly, and they were minis.
Yeah, that's and that's how that was framed. Framed is that they
had just ambushed us, and now they were moving to a position of tackle
advantage. Right, So the AC one thirty is allowed to strike in defensive
friendlies because of that, correct, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it gets
complicated. And obviously, you know, when you go into a place like
Afghanistan where you're fighting side by side with you know, with the host nation
force, you know, precautionousne to be taken like you don't want to harm
innocent people for sure, but you know, the Taliban was very good at
using those rules against us. Yeah, you know. And uh and we
saw some growth things on our deppointment, Right, we had a a a
young child killed that was trapped to the chest of a Taliban inserted, right,
using them as as body armor. Right, So stuff like that is,
you know, is a reality. So you know, I that's some
of the harder stuff you see. But but you're right, you know,
But so what was your You mentioned the M forty eight earlier, that your
Bravo had the M forty eight, which I I'm not I've never used.
I assume it replaced the M sixty Is that right or didn't replace the Mark
forty eight. Mark forty eight is basically a saw that shoots a seven to
sixty two round Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, that's the stow con
variant of the saw. It's sort of a uh seven six two machine gun
that you can one man carry and it has a two hundred round drum that
you slide in like a saw so that you don't need multiple people to shoot.
So it gives you that extra firepower that a saw doesn't have because of
shooting five five six, but still in a one man carry. And then
for you guys, for the guys who weren't the weapons guys, like what
were you carrying? So I carried the Mark forty eight a lot, actually
when not so when I was an element leader, you know, your whole
focus is running the elements and the team leader and all that, I would
carry an M four with maybe a three twenty grenade launcher or something like that
we actually carried. We ended up by the end of the deployment switching our
load out to carry just a ton of grenades, so we would carry six
seven grenades per guy, just because as if we just talked about that was
the type of fighting we were getting into in these compounds, sort of that
grenade battle type of stuff, or bunkers, all kinds of stuff like that.
When I when my other teammate who we typically worked together, either I
was element leader or he was the other one of us who wasn't at the
time, would carry the Mark forty eight so that we would have that firepower.
And you usually have two, right, you would have one on each
of the elements, so that each element had a seven six two machine gun.
So that's sort of how that would work. Now, were you guys
carrying like standard grenades, were you carrying the minis? Were you carrying thermobarics?
Like what? Oh? Yeah, yeah, so we would Cary,
I would usually carry because we had there were so much bunkers and you're doing
and a ruse gone and kanahar and I'm sure we'll get into another story that
involved this is massive bunker field type of stuff we got into. So we
would carry a couple of thermobarics for sure, because we could just clap collapse
dfps so easily, and these tunnels that they were using. Yeah, so
yeah, I would usually I'd usually carry two thermobarics, maybe four or five
reader grenades and then maybe one in senior grenade if I need to, you
know, make it easy to burn all the drugs, because we would find
even though we weren't doing specifically drug stuff, we would still find you know,
like three four hundred pounds of heroin and operation you know, like ten
twenty bags of of twenty pounds heroin, you know, and it just makes
it easy to yeah, yeah, the black tar stuff, but it just
made it easy just to burn all that stuff, really easily. So yeah,
that's how sort of how that? Yeah, grenade loaner. Yeah,
uh do you remember your first time using a thermomeric or somebody like, well
do Yeah, I got a great story about that. Please. So my
eighteen delta who who again? Guy I worked with the longest as a team
a team guy, and then I ended up he took a team starting slot
in Okinawa, and I end up I ended up going and traveling to be
on his team as a one of his team guys. Is he was a
team starting So anyway, we were, we were moving together doing some stuff,
and again we found this bunker system that we're going to collapse. First
time I've been around a therb of barrack, right, He's like, oh,
I'm gonna throw this in this bunker, right, So he throws it
in the bunker and he takes off running and I look over my shoulder like
what is he doing? You know? And it goes off and I'm standing
way too close and it ends up my lip right here. It'd been a
little bit chapped, you know, in the center of your lip gets chapped,
and it blew my lip apart, ripped my whole lip apart, from
the over pressure of it, you know, and I was like, oh
my god, you know, you get your face blasted back. So that
was my That was my introduction into what a therb of America dated. So
after that, it was like throwing and run as fast as possible. Yeah
they're yeah, they're they're effective. They're they're heavy, but they're effective.
Yeah for sure. So okay, uh yeah, so like what so after
so you guys X fill this target, you get back? Yeah, how
are the guys on your team because it sounds like someone got rode ard and
put away wet. Yeah, so are my eighteen Charlie the one he took
the brunt of it right, so amazingly the grenade that hit him again,
it was like basically blew his pants off, you know, it's his whole
face was you know, pressure eyes burned everything like that all the way up
his body. He took zero shrap, which no idea how because the guys
behind him ate all the shrapnel for some reason, who knows, you know,
the grenades are weird like that. He was massive, massive TBI,
massive concussion for a while and he ended up having to go to the senior
leader course like three days later he got pulled out of Afghanistan to go to
for us. That's how you become an E seven. It's more important than
a combat operation, I guess. So he basically massive TBI trying to fly
go to this course. He basically told us he had no idea what was
going on. Instructors just gave him a pass because he was so messed up.
And then my senior eighteen Echo took a bunch of shrapnel through his arms,
but he ended up being okay. And then our eighteen Delta who got
the Silver Star, which, honestly, I tell you that story, he
promised you have the Middle of Honor because all those dudes would be dead if
he wasn't able to do what he did, which pretty much all the hoour
awards on that mission were downgraded one, even his, so because the general
decided NCOs shouldn't have that high of hour awards, right, and the EXO
that was with you didn't get one, so why should you, guys?
Yeah, so, but and then he took a bunch of shrapnel in his
hand, And the worst part about him taking all the shrapnel his hands is
he was basically inside of the guts of these Afghans sewing them up and doing
stuff with bare hands, shredded apart, right, so he had to deal
with all the medications and all that stuff to make sure he was okay.
But of all of that that happened, I think we took fourteen fifteen casualties,
you know, guys being shot in the face and the stomach and the
chests and blown up. No one died on that mission, but now they
now they might have later the Afghans. I don't know, right, because
that's a lot of nasty damage. But but up front, yeah, nobody
died. And I think we killed fifty eight Talban on that mission, so
you know, we got pushed off the objective, so it wasn't a necessarily
success, but the fact nobody died was was was good. Yeah, I
mean you got pushed off the objective, but you still like killed fifty eight
it was fifty yeah, yeah, you know zero fifty yeah, and that
was that was definite and you could you know the at that they were willing
to fight us that crazy, that hard. Let us know that that was
there was important, important people in that area. So we definitely did a
lot of damage to to a high profile area for sure, do you know
was it was it Afghan SF or Afghan commanders that were with you that night?
Afghan FF. That was the thing is those guys typically and I watched
them do some crazy stuff later in the employments, but even they and that's
it shire situation. We're like, no, wait man, we're not We're
not moving. We're gonna lay down and shoot into the darkness. So but
but you know, it's one of those things where again I had had you
know, for me, had I not add, you know, my my
senior delta just basically sprinting straight into a near ambush into gunfire, I might
not realize what to do either, right, So, because it was just
such a heinous, crazy thing out of nowhere that having a guy like that
had four or five combat amployments with been in so many crazy things and Hellman
and Moosa Klay and all these insane stories that having him there was huge,
right for the rest of us on the team, the other SF guys,
to know, Okay, we can do this, right, we can eliminate
the threat. We all we gotta do is move and do the things that
we're trained to do. Yeah, Which that that sort of gets into that
how important that war experience is and why I'm a little bit worried about us
going away from from war and combat and what that's going to look like for
the future generations, because it's such a massive thing and actual combat to have
guys like that, Yeah, when you're a new guy, for sure.
And the thing is is, battle drills aren't fun to do. And and
I think a lot of guys like it's just human nature that when we're doing
battle drills, like we check out after a while, We just go through
the motions. But like you're talking about a near ambush getting off the X
is Yep, it's vital. And yet you know, and and you know,
to speak to what you were doing, you were trying to help out
the the Afghans, like you were trying to get them off the X two.
Yeah. But yeah, and it's one of those like you say,
it's just one of those things that it always degrades. Like we went from
Vietnam and it and it took a long time to relearn all the lessons that
that guys like your dad like instinctively did. Yeah, And you know,
it's it's interesting you say that because I had the immediate response to do those
things that we do through training. Right. My immediate response was, Okay,
we have to maneuver right, right, have to maneuver on this.
We were able to. But it's thing that you say that is, once
that degraded, it was sort of what do we what do I do?
Right? Like these guys won't move right, and it's a guy with all
this experience that you know is the one that kind of snaps into your head
of like, oh shit, okay, we've got to do this. Yeah
that you can't really train for those type of things. Yeah, you kind
of just have to gain that experience through actual time, yeah. Fights.
Yeah, And it's interesting you mentioned how the afghansf Like, you know,
my experience with both Afghan Afghans and Iraqis is if you're train them for CQUB,
they're good at doing CQB. But if if a problem arises during that
time, if it's something that they haven't necessarily trained for or have down,
they a lot of times they didn't have that sort of that lateral thinking,
so they would vapor Like it's interesting you say that because, again, like
I said earlier, I watched some of these guys do really impressive stuff on
missions later. But it makes sense because that is they were doing things that
they were very proficient at when they did it, whereas a situation like that
is definitely not something that that anyone really trains for. So the fact that
they sort of just shut down kind of is exactly what we're talking about there.
Yeah, yeah, no, it just reminds me of, you know,
the the old idea that if you if you take the prone in a
near ambush, you'll never get up. Oh yeah, no for sure.
And we were not in a position of advantage, right, what are we
gonna do. Lay in that field and we shoot it an open doorway like
this, We're gonna all die eventually if we if we stay here and do
this. So so, how long did it take your team to sort of
recuperate, uh, you know, to to be able to be operational again.
Yeah. So, so two of our teammates, our our eighteen Delta
was okay because he he had to get his hands stitched up. He got
you know, his hands shredded a little bit, but he was all right.
So he's he was continued to be on the team in our operations.
But our eighteen Charlie and our eighteen Echo were messed up to the point where
they were out for a couple of months, I think. And then we
actually plussed up guys through the company, so the B team and from other
teams that weren't doing as much, we were able to, you know,
get s F guys from different odias in the company to come out on operations
with us to help us sort of plus up those numbers while while our teammates
were out for injuries. Now you said you your exo wasn't SF. Did
your exo go out on any more ops after that? No? He is
now, he is now. He so he went to the Q course you
know after, you know, years later, and he made it through.
And he's agreeing right now. But yeah, I think he might. I
think he might have come out on a few ter that. Oh, I
gotta tell you the funny, funny story about that. That brings me back.
So so the Afghan, the Afghan that I dragged him throw in front
of him, and he had been shot through and through through the bicep a
couple of times here and here, and our exo had thrown tourniquets on him,
you know, And so I run back over after everything's calmed down,
to check on the guy real quick, and he's this Afghan had laying there
on the ground on his back, and he's got two of his buddies staring
down on the ground. And I look at him and his tourniquets are all
off and he's just bleeding out to death on the ground and I'm like,
what are you guys doing? Why are his tourniquets off? And the Afghans
are like, oh, they they're hurting him too bad. So we took
him off, you know, so we throw you know, I grabbed the
tourniquets and I throw him back on and I run over and grab my eighteen
Delta and I'm like, can get over here and check on this guy and
make sure he's not dead. His buddy's almost killed him, you know.
But just you know, as heinous as that whole thing was, just I
remember even laughing in the moment, like, wow, you guys are yeah,
that is dumb, right, you know, But but anyway, it's
a testament to your ext So though that he went out there and it was
just a taste and like it led him on. Yeah, oh yeah,
for sure. Yeah he was a good dude. But again, just the
fact that uh, you know that's your first yeah, yeah, your first
operation just immediately in the ship as you would say, you know, yeah,
So so you guys get plushed up, like how long is it before
you get you're back out again your next mission. I think after that one,
I think we waited a couple of weeks. I think that definitely slowed
us down a little bit as we uh sort of were making sure guys were
okay and and we figuring out that whole thing. But I think it was
a couple of weeks and then we were back at and back out on operations.
So when that long, you might not have any like essay of this,
but you know, if they sign a follow on after that compound knowing
that it was probably something important or into that area, I don't. So
we continue to operate through there quite a bit for the rest of for the
rest of the trip. But yeah, we didn't go back. We didn't
go back in there exclusively. I think we kind of got our tail but
between our legs a little bit, and it was just a nasty area.
Again, train wise, it just wasn't any good way to get in there.
So it was one of those things where you had to in fill offset
and walk to there, and they were obviously ready and they weren't going to
give that up. So yeah, it kind of is one of those things
if like we don't really know what is in there, so is it really
worth us continuing to to go in there or can we have effects, you
know, better effects further out in the area. Yeah, Yeah, it's
kind of the I mean, once they let you know, it's like put
in a marine company and put them online and let them it's like yeah.
And again we had such as the bulk of our battalion doing the Nangahar Valley
ices clearing operation during that time that we didn't really have anything like that for
us to be able to get you know, ful odias to actually take that
down. We were you guys or other you know, like uh, sister
teams like were you guys? Were you you were operating in larger than odias
at any point in time, So we we didn't as a team, but
yes, a lot of our teams were so Again that Nangahar Valley was an
entire company. I think they had four or five odias that were clearing the
valley together. And then I think our team in Hellman's and Pat worked together
a little bit because that Musa Kla area was hellman, the entire war was
just such a nasty place that the Taliban just never were willing to give that
up. Yeah, you know, and it was such an integral part of
that drug trafficking road there through Helmand that that was always a nasty place.
So our od eight didn't do multi team clearing operations, but our company did
a lot of them out in raw there was a Hurrat or we had a
couple of odia's working together. So yeah, yeah, it's a normal thing.
But our team pretty much SUSI was working by ourselves down south the Candahara
Roostone area. So what was your next stop? Then out out out the
gate after that up Oh man, if you remember, I know it all
bunds together at some point too, Yeah, it does. You know.
There's there's so many that were sort of generic nighttime raids were getting you know,
small gunfights here and there, the air would strike. We killed ten
twenty guys clear through not really find anything. The next most memorable one is
the one where our ODIA found the largest cachet of himme ever found in Afghanistan,
which that's kind of a fun there's no there's no gun fights involved in
this story, but it's kind of a cool story for the fact of what
we accomplished and what we destroyed. So I could go through that one,
but it's not as long, but anical story and again we we we set
the record for that. So so yeah, we had and again this was
I think in the Arous Gone area, so same sort of valley that I'm
talking about Terran Connerus Gone and all sort of runs in the same area and
that that the prior mission took place in. And for whatever reason, I
don't know how our intelligence are and figured this out. Again he was incredible,
super and super smart dude. But we decided to go and hit this
area because you know, it looks like a an area of interest and it's
in the same area. And we get in, we infill or maybe like
three off the first compound and the very first building we get into, there's
we're first compound. There's one Afghan there. Oh, let me backtrack.
So this area actually another ODIA had been in a year prior to the to
this same compound. This is why we went in and they had gotten this
massive blowout gunfight. The one sixty had had to come in and they had
to be emergency X filled off. So it was crazy area about a year
ago. So we figured, hey, we're gonna go in here too and
test our luck. So that's actually how how we ended up going into this
spot. So we infil and worked it. So now we're expecting to fight
because the prior Odia had gotten such a ship show that, you know,
and we had just come off of, you know, the one we had
been in that it was like, okay, we're going in. We're and
we're ready for a fight. And the very first building we get to,
you know, a young Afghan maybe sixteen seventeen years old, comes out.
He's like, yeah, there's Talban here and they have all their stuff right
there in that building. And he's like, and they have some right here
down next to the river. So we're like, all right, walk us
over there to see it. And we walk down and next to the river
there's like one hundred mortars buried in and we're right off the right off the
helicopter and we're like, oh, okay, so there's gonna be there's gonna
be some stuff in this area. If there's this big of a cachet just
out in the middle of nowhere, and so you know, he basically points
to the compound that we're planning on hitting, you know, the big one
that we knew that the prior Odia was trying to get into, and says,
yeah, this is where all the Talban keep their stuck. And so
we start moving in and most of the Talban fleed early right they heard the
aircraft coming, which was a very typical thing. If they're not willing to
fight for what's there, they'll just get on their most motorcycles and just bounce
once they hear the aircraft. So we we pretty quickly just walk straight up
to the main compound. My element again is the one there's we're split up,
but my element is the one that's and I'm Element leader again on this
one. My element is the one that's going to this compound. And so
we we pretty much freely get into this compound no resistance. And it's a
big open compound maybe fifty meters by fifty meters of open space with you know,
buildings around it, and you know, there's cars and stuff in the
middle of this compound and I'm not thinking much of it, and we're like,
man, maybe there's really not that much in here. And then all
of a sudden, my EOD tech comes up on the radio and he was
like, hey, you need to come look at this. And I'm like,
okay, you know what is it? And he's like, come over
here by this giant building. So I walked. I walk over and he's
standing you know, just a normal doorway and he's like, come and look
at this. And I go and I look in the door and it's a
warehouse and it's from you know, ground to ten feet tall of himme as
you know, one hundred feet wide, and it's like and if you're standing
next to it, like, okay, if this goes off, I'm literally
all of us they are going to be vaporized instantly. So it's like,
oh, I really hope this isn't rigged because all of us are going to
die immediately if there's somebody with a claquer standing one hundred meters away, you
know, and it's you know, I had seen large amount we had gone
through. We found tons of really big cachets, but I mean nothing like
this. This was absolutely insane. Again, it was the largest one ever
found by any US military and Afghanistan. So it was like a warehouse full
of bags of hime. And it wasn't just him me, they had probably
hundreds of mortars and rockets and ammunition. I mean, it was massive,
massive stockpile. So we're like, okay, well great, we're gonna blow
this up. So we call it up to the fall, it up to
the Soda f and tell them what we found. And well, as we're
doing this, we start looking in the cars they're in here, and we're
looking in the car slashlight and we're like, oh, that's a vbed.
Oh that's another vbed that these are all rigged, and we're like, oh
shit, Like this compound is the most like this is the most depth centered
place we could be for explosives in Afghanistan. If something goes boom, you
know, you got fifty dead soldiers instantly. So we call it up and
we're gonna you know, we're gonna first try to get we first. They're
like, well, they're gonna strike it right, there's no way that we're
not that we're gonna leave this. And so they're like, yeah, cordon
off the area and make sure nobody comes in and out, and then we'll
strike it and we'll get rid of it. So that's what we do.
We spend the next couple of hours making sure we clear everything. There's no
one inside these compounds, there's no one near it. We have the whole
area of cordoned off. And then we wait and we wait and two AM
rolls, around, three AM rolls around, four AM rolls around, and
we're again we're in a valley in taran Cott, which is like, you
don't stay there into daylight. Staying there to the daylight, you start taking
rockets and mortars from the hills. So we're like, are you gonna strike
or not? Like what are we doing? And then finally they tell us.
We're like, oh, well, we're we can't strike. So then
we're like, well, we'll just hip it ourselves, right, We'll bloat
up ourselves. And they're like, no, you can't do that. Maybe
there was a mosque, I don't know, but we're like, what are
you talking about. We can't do this. We can't leave thirteen thousand pounds
of HMME on target for them to kill American soldiers with it for this ten
years. This is insane. And they're like, well, stand by,
and then eventually, you know, five AM rolls around, and the helicopters
show up, and we get on the helicopters and we leave, and everybody's
looking around at each other like what the hell are we doing? I mean,
we have we had the whole area corn on off. It's all taken
care of. So obviously we're confused. We're pit We're pitted, right,
Like, for one, I didn't just walk around this the this area that
was just guaranteed death for two hours for us to just leave it there.
And so we get back. Everybody's pissed, we you know, and there's
no gun fights anything like that on this mission, and so, you know,
we do our AARs, we go sleep, We wake up the next
morning and we come to do our team meeting and our team started. It's
like, hey, General call and got some news for you guys. We
have to fly back in and hit this target again. So apparently what happened,
and again I don't know for sure, but the general who had the
authorities to strike this target was asleep and his aids didn't want to wake him
up, so that's why we didn't strike the target. Well, when the
general woke up the next morning and he saw the mission brief and said why
the fuck didn't you guys wake me up? We can't leave. Just like
we said, we can't leave, right the enemy, all of this go
back and get it the general that the General takes the risk of sending us
back into the largest cachet ever found that they could potentially rig to kill us
all. Again, that was very brave of him to take that risk.
Yeah, that's what we s That's the very first thing we said. We're
like, oh man, you are so u so brave because you guys leave
And I mean, first off, you guys, so when we're talking about
him, you're talking about homemade explosive, right, yep, what what was
the nature of the of the homemade explosive Because we're talking about are we talking
about id S or it's not a finished PROD that like, No, so
it's it was more to the now. Again I'm not an engineer, but
more of like the fertilizer base, uh, explosive right, Like it's it's
it's an explosive but hasn't been turned into an i D yet. It's just
the actual explosive material that they have bagged up in big fifty pound bags,
I mean, and the fact that it wasn't rigged the first time, Oh
yeah, against you guys, and then you're going back in there after you've
already told the Taliban that we know this is here, and then it's not
rigged again. It's it's so lucky. So the SODAF did hold air assets
above the target and they struck anyone who got anywhere near it throughout the day,
throughout the night. So they did do that, right, because otherwise
we would have been like, no, no, that's just guaranteed death.
But still you never know, right, you never know if it wasn't already
rigged. Right, and then now they realize somebody you know who's in the
area says okay, now I get on my cell phone and wait from the
come back and boom. But you know, to uh to like with everything
we got, we got a bunch of I got. We all got our
calm with combat devices, right. So they gave us big flashy awards for
our bravery on that one. That's they had to make up. Oh and
they gave our They gave our our team leader a Valor Award for that mission,
which he tried to turn down because he was like, I'm not accepting
a Valor reward, you know, and he was like six hundred meters away
from the whole thing the whole time. It's not accepting a valer award for
this, and you know, the command was like, oh, yes you
are, because we're not. We're not gonna have this look like a mistake,
you know what I mean, You're gonna be brave. So when you
guys went back in that that second night, did you have to read did
you just have to coordinate or did you have to go back to the White
House and reconfirm. Well, so we went back in the same night and
they still wouldn't strike it. They sent us back in and we had to
internally bit it. It was like, you guys had a thing too,
we had to blow it. Yeah, they wouldn't even strike it, so
we didn't court on it or anything. So they sent us back in and
they were like, well that we don't want to take the risk of striking
it. You guys go do it. So yeah, our EOD texts and
our Charlie's went in and they rigged it, rigged this warehouse with C four
and everything and put a massive delayed fuse on it, you know, and
they popped it and everybody ran five hundred meters and uh, you know,
it's crazy when this thing went off, and you know, it's too bad
we can't show the video of it. When this thing went off, you
know, it looks like a nuclear bomb going off in the NATO video,
but I remember because we're in a valley. I was probably seven hundred meters
away from this explosion and I could feel it in my chest like it was
a door charge in CQB. That's how big that explosion was, you know.
So it was a sure, we do we have the video? Yeah,
I sent it to you guys on Instagram. Yeah, if you get
an oh yeah, we'll throw it on the Patreon. Yeah yeah, yeah,
but that's the you guys have a video of the is SR after we
bit that. But yeah, I mean it's and it was kind of like,
you know, after we saw that video, it was like, oh
that's and you can see, you know in that video you'll see you don't
realize it's like, oh, these are tiny buildings, you know, and
it's like engulfed by this atomic bomb cloud and it's like, oh, that
would have been us as little ants that Yeah, I had this thing gone
off? Yeah, did it did it also, do you guys also bip
uh the vehicles or did that charge? Take about take about that? Yeah,
it blew the I mean it blew four hundred meters of compound, disintegrated.
Everything inside of that thing was was absolutely gone from that much explosive.
That's wild. Yeah, that's I mean, it's so wild that you guys
were sent back in there instead of Jess it's instead of basically doing an air
strike and saying and calling it a day. Well and you know, super
irresponsible. Yeah, you know, and I could say that now that I'm
out, But I mean the fact that you would send us back into that,
you know, is for the fact that you made a whoop seed,
like just strike it man. Yeah, like you've you've been watching it the
whole night. You know, nobody's come into the area. We had it
cordoned off, right, you know, the i SR Has been watching the
whole bet you know, they they'd rather, you know, send in a
team full of FF guys than take the risk of you know, somebody getting
in trouble or something like that. So it is what it is. Yeah,
Now, what did you guys do about the mortars down by the river?
Oh? We dipped those. Yeah, we blew those up just as
we went through. Yeah. Yeah, so there was there was a few
different little caches on the way as we got there that we just dipped in
place. Yeah, but yeah, cache a wise, we would find stuff
like that all over the place. We've probably found like a one hundred different
caches throughout all those different missions that we would just dip in place. And
with that, I wanted to say this because I always forget to talk about
it, which always made always pissed you off. Is all these cachetes,
we're always American ammunitions. It was American mortars. It was American ammo still
sealed serialized in the green and you know the green boxes. And it's like,
oh cool, I wonder how the Taliban we're getting all of this,
you know? So but I mean they got plenty of it now too though,
so I guess let's see. Yeah, that that is interesting though,
because I mean, how do you think do you think that it was indeed
working on base? Like so, well, I can tell you I do
know how it is, right. So what it is is that you know
a lot of people don't realize in Afghanistan, you know, the whole Taliban
A and A thing is not as like black and white as people think it
is. It's there's a lot of like I'm Taliban one day, and I'm
A and A the next right and whatever suits me best is where I'm at.
So for example, tons of missions we would hit Taliban villages and there
would be multiple an A police cars parked at the compound hanging out with their
Talban bites. So what I think more of what it was is, you
know, we supplied the A and A with all this ammunition and all these
mortars and all these rockets, and then they would just turn around and sell
it to the Talban. I think that's more of how that whole thing played
out. So in twenty eighteen, did you guys ever find any night vision
whether it was American or commercial? Like, did they have that? Yeah?
So the Talban Red Unit guys had it, which we found a few
of those on the mission. The final mission I'll talk about was Talban Ready
Unit guys that we ended up getting in big fights with. So but that
was that was the only Taliban that had night vision that we came across.
Was and was it was it military American military or was it like storebox commercial.
Yeah, so I didn't. We didn't see any American military. But
the big thing too is that the talband red unit unless they got trapped,
which in this mission I'm talking about we trapped and bad, they would not
fight American forces, right because they didn't want to give up all the Gucci
equipment, so they would really only fight the ANA. So we really didn't
come across them that much for that reason. That's it's you know, it's
crazy because it makes all the difference. Like if the the guys who ambushed
you from that compound, if they would have had night vision, it might
be dead. It'd be different, Like it would be dead. Everybody in
that field would be dead. They would hit you when you're in the field,
not when you were like ten meters away. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah,
that's the only reason we're a lot is they didn't have it. Yeah,
And that and that you can't be in an open field and get ambushed
from a compound. If they had. If that was us with night vision
and compound, we would killed everyone. Yeah. Yeah. So uh so
then after you know, after this and your team leader gets his valor award
and and you know, mad respect to him, for wanting to decline it.
Oh, he's a awesome dude, one of the highest ranked officers in
the Special Forces Regiment, right, great, great dude, great commander.
And yeah, that was his thing, and especially because you know, the
entire team had gotten Valor Awards for everything that happened and that was his thing.
Was like, I, for one, he didn't care, right,
And for him it was like what you know, he was pissed too because
it was like, why are you sending my guys back in to do this
and now you're trying to like make it all kosher by giving me a Valor
award. Definitely didn't sit right with him, But so do our comms have
v devices now, Yeah, So that's what we all ended up getting,
right, So we were all put in for besides my aten L two got
the silver Star, we were all put in for bronze stars with Valor.
And the way the Valor Award system works is you get put in for the
Valor Award and then it goes to your local chain of command and your company.
They have to agree. The citation goes through, it goes to your
battalion command. They agree, it goes up to the Soda of command.
They agree, then it goes to a board of sergeant majors who look it
over and they can agree or down grade, right, and then it goes
to the one star general. So each general can sign off on a certain
level of valor awards. So the one star can sign off on a r
com V, the two star bronze star with V a silver star I think
it's the fourth star middal of honor goes to the president, right. So
so what had happened was it our bsmvs and this is my whole team all
went through, all the way up past the board of starting majors. Everybody
agrees bron star val gets to the one star general, who has the authority
to either pass the bronze star up to the two star or he by himself
with no other person can say no, I'm just gonna downgrade these r com
V at my level. Boom, sign them. Here's your RKMV. So
that's what he did to our our oda is he said, no, I'm
not going to send them further. I'm just gonna downgrade him right here at
my level. Sign here you go, So you know, it's it was
kind of a shitty thing to do to us. But at the same time,
for me, you know, the important thing for me was more of
like one, it's just an honor that I was with my teammates to be
a part of that. And you know, some of the things I watched
my teammates do or in my opinion, so much more heroic than what I
did. That Again, it was just it just meant a lot to me
that I was a part of that. And then also the recognition sort of
for my family and like my kids when they grow up, they'll be able
to, you know, see something like that. So you know, the
level of our ward never really mattered to me. I don't really care.
But it's still kind of one of those shitty things that an officer just decides
on his own a bunch of NCOs like, no, I'm just gonna downgrade
your stuff and sign it. But honestly did not know that the armcom had
a v device, But I guess it's been around for a while. But
yeah, it is very shitty. I mean, it's like, why why
like it? It's not money out of his pocket, it doesn't cost yeah
anything to sign off on that. He just randomly like reads it and goes
nah, nah, not these guys. Yeah, you know, we said
the same thing. And what's funny is you know we read you would read
like Bronze Star with Valor citations from the Tenth Group team before us. Yeah,
you know we read those citations and no knock on those guys, right,
they had an awesome stuff. But you read those citations and be like,
well, this is these are your ambushes were ten times crazier than those
awards. Yeah, and yet ours are. And you know the worst part
was we had the Soda Commandrew come and see us afterwards and he was like,
you guys only got put in for broad Stars with Valor for that.
Yeah, He's like that should you guys should all have silver stars. Yeah.
But then they turn around and knock us all down. But you know,
whatever, you know, but you know, I mean even you know,
like in your dad can probably speak to this. And you know,
we've had a lot of guys from SF and macp Sag on the show from
Vietnam, and it's in those small units when the whole unit is doing something
very valorious, you know that it just it's not looked at in the same
way as an individual in a in a line company. You know, doing
the you know, one person standing out, we'll get recognized and not always
not always recognize, like they get their medals down downgraded a lot too.
But it's weird how the military looks at small units who are under dressed and
doing these uncommon acts of hour. Basically, yeah, you know, and
we we would always get told, you know. And there's there's a big
thing soft operators. Typically you know, what you get a vour ard for
might be a bronze star, and that same thing for someone the infantry is
a mel of honor. And that's the reality of it. Because the way
that the military says is, you know, you're just doing your job.
Your job is to do extraordinary things. Right, you did your job,
why would we give you, you know, anything above and beyond that right?
So right, and you know, and for your delta to be wounded,
to charge a machine gun nust like that is the definition I think of
what you know, absolutely, yeah, you know, you get you get
injured, you save lives, you eliminate the threat in a machine gun nests
in that situation. It's it's all of those things, you know what I
mean. But he's a you know, he's an eighteen delta green brace.
So that's a silver star that's not valerable that I guess, you know,
I don't agree with this. Chances are though, when he's ninety, they'll
they'll turn around and upgrade it. They just don't want to, you know,
they just don't want to pay the kids for college. And yeah,
sure so, uh so you guys have now bip this you x fill like
what's next on on the agenda for you guys? Yeah, so again we
we have you know, some I don't want to say normal missions, because
we had a lot of wild stuff that happened, but I just like to,
you know, hit the big ones that are that are exciting and fun
to talk about. So that the last one or the third biggest kind of
coolest mission that we had was is a mission where a Taliban compound was being
overrun or not excuse me, an an a compound was being overrun by the
Taliban in a place called camp and a conduct and cause a ruse gone.
And what made this sort of a really high profile mission is that caused the
Aru's gone, which was north east of a ruse gone was outside of the
med rings of anything that we could go to so for people who don't know,
you have your golden now or of medical coverage that we don't really operate
outside of in the event that somebody gets injured. So caused the ruse gone.
No SF no American military had ever been in here ever, So that's
how far out it was. An austere it was. And so this camp
camp and a conduct that the ANA had been basically getting overrun. They couldn't
get any supplies in, they had all these dead soldiers, they couldn't get
them out. And our partner force basically asked us if we'd be willing to
go in and and and help this compound, and we were able to which
we were like, yeah, this is awesome. We get to go outside
the med ring. We get to you know, this compounds under attack.
We know we're going to get into some nasty stuff. And the general you
know, he's I guess he you know, he's into blessing off on risk,
so he was willing to take the risk to send us the way outside
the med ring. And we had to, you know, we had to
set up with the one sixth of having we had surgeons sort of forward place
on on CGE forty seven's inside, like you know, within the med ring.
So we had to build that whold apparatus for for us to be able
to do it. But yeah, so we get blessed off to come in
and basically hit this wover. The way it worked is so there was a
compound the ANA had which on one side of it, there was a big
mountain on the back side of it, and then you know, let's say
the north side of it was a big mountain range, and then it was
right at the base of the mountain range, and then the south side was
sort of grass shrubbery lands. And so the ANA guys were stuck in the
compound up next to that mountain range, and the Taliban had built a bunch
of bunkers the dfps, and basically we're assaulting through through this area to attack
the compound, and there was nowhere for the Ana to go. They were
completely stuck. So, you know, we got breathed from the ANA guys
about where the compound was and where the Talban were, so we got some
pretty good intel on it, and so we decided, okay, well,
what we're gonna do is we're gonna infill behind where the Taliban are and we're
just gonna pincer the Taliban in between campaign the Conda and US, and there's
gonna be nowhere for them to go. They're just gonna have to fight us.
So so that was the plan as we went in, and so I'll
just kind of go through, walk through the mission. We got a lot,
we got a lot of go ahead if you need to stop me.
Yeah, So was it all open terrain? Was it wooded like outside of
that that kind of open area where they had built their fighting positions? What
was it? So? Kasaru's gotten more vegetative than you would think in Afghanistan,
much higher elevation as well. So think of it as like high grasslands,
sort of grass up to your waist with intermittent pretty large trees and then
sort of open areas in between that, right, sort of kind of like
Washington and Oregons type of vegetation. Not your typical you know, Candahar desert
dirt, more of a vegetative, large forested sort of type of environment.
Okay, So yeah, so we uh, we we fly in and we
offset quite a bit because we don't want them to know that it's Americans,
right, because we know no Americans have ever been in there, but we
do know that they have been basically trying to shoot down any A and A
helicopter that comes in. So they've been used to the ANA trying to fly
in and not be able to get in. So we want to basically make
them think that hey, this is A and A helicopters trying to get in.
So we have the helicopters first fly in and then fly over the top,
have them get shot at but our patches and then fly off, and
then we sort of kind of like a false infill, and then we fly
in right after that to make the taleband think, oh, that was just
A and A helicopters. And so we fly in, we hit the ground
and immediately, I mean within the first couple of minutes, we start getting
the chatter on the chirp phones, you know, and the ISSR of the
tal band going, oh that you know that A and A are here.
They're trying to get their friends down. Let's go get them. Let's go
get them. So we're like, oh, man, these guys have no
idea. You know, we've got we've got our full o DA, We've
got sixty afghans, We've got and again there's a mountain range right here on
the wall. So we're able to hold our AC one thirty in all our
air aft that's right on the other side of that mountain range. So they
can't hear the typical big brother in the sky the yeah, yeah, they
don't know that we because they know the sound of that. So they don't
know that we got that because of the strain. So so we get to
our very first compound and the our CTT who's talking to the pilots, is
like, hey, the pilots just said that there's thirty guys in rank and
file columns walking through the open towards us, right, so they're basically an
infantry line thirty Taliban hunting their way to take down these an A soldiers.
They think that just flew in, And so our commander and our CCT year
like, all right, bring in the AC one thirty. And so you
know, we're five ten minutes into the operation and right up over the top
of the mountain range, the AC one thirty hits, hits the orbit and
just you know, smokes all thirty of them, and immediately you hear over
the turf phones of screaming, oh god, it's the Americans. It's the
Americans. It's the Americans. So that's how, that's how that that operation
starts. Right. So now but now you know, they're like, oh
god, this Americans are here. So now they're not out in the open.
Now they're bunkering down. So they had built all these bunkers and defensive
fighting positions so that they could fight out of towards the Taban camp. So
we had to still clear from where we were all the way to the Ana
camp because we were also going to x fill all the dead bodies of our
Ana partner force. It was like ten guys that were dead that they couldn't
get out. That was part of what we were trying to help them do.
So we had to get all the way there. It'll imitate everybody in
between. So the very first situation, we get into the big, first
big compound, we're about to try to get into. The AC one thirty
has struck a bunker maybe thirty meters offset from this giant compound, and so
we were trying to get access to this compound walking around. Finally we found
the gate to get in, and we're all standing on the side of the
compounds. We're waiting to get in and I think em element leader on this
one too. I get my guys inside and I send out a b DA
search, so battle damage assessment search with one of one of my ODIA guys,
two of my Odia guys, and some Afghans. I'm like, hey,
can you guys go clear that bunker real quick with the AC one thirty
struck just to make sure we know what we got. They're right cool.
They go walking out to go do it, and then out of nowhere boot
machine gun fire PKM fire everywhere. So apparently you know, there was four
or five guys in this bunker. The AC one thirty killed the guys on
the outside of it, but they're still bunkered in. So our two two
teammates to grabbing grenades and throwing them inside these bunkers World War two style,
end up killing those guys. But that was sort of the first realization of
like, oh shit, these guys are in these bunkers like they are no
ship World War two style bunkered in towards the objectives. So that was sort
of the realization of like, oh shit, we can't just walk like out
in the open at these bunkers. There's people inside. So so again we
have to. We're continuing to clear towards the towards the compound, and we
get to the second big compound and and again we're going through maybe like one
hundred meters of open area again with like waist high grass as we get from
compound to compound, and so we're maybe halfway there to the to the campaign
of Conda. Nothing really too bad it has happened at this point other than
and you know, doing bdas on bunkers. And my team starts like,
hey, I need you to get to the final the final compound that's sort
of the last compound in between the compound and the campaign a Conda. So
I'm like, all right, well, we got to clear through this this
open area to get there. So get my guys, my afkhans ready to
go. And they go walking outside the compound and we get ready to move,
and as I get to the wall, they all come springing back at
me and run back inside the compound and I'm like, whoa, what are
you guys doing. We gotta clear this area and they're like no way.
My Afkans are like no way, we are not moving through that. And
I'm like, what do you mean why? And they're like you look,
and so I go and I look my head out and I look at this
big open area and I mean, it is they built the bunkers out of
dirt and mud, but it's it's waist high grass right with giant bunker bunker
bunker, but every ten feet a huge bunker, right. So you're looking
at this and you're like, there could be people anywhere in the grass.
There's bunkers everywhere. We know there's people in these bunkers. So the Afghans
are like, no, wait, we're not We're not walking through that.
You're crazy. And I'm like, I don't want to walk through that neither,
but we've got to clear through it. So, you know, I
go to my team starting I'm like, I don't know what to do.
The Afghans and we have the Afghan and the an a SF guys and they're
like, no, wait, this is crazy. And so my team startings,
Like in the funny thing in SF, anytime there's like a problem that's
unsolvable, people will always tell you you're a Green Beret, figure it out.
So this was like the ultimate moment in my career of like, you're
a Green Beret. Figure it out right. So my team startings like,
well, I don't know me and to figure it out. And I'm like,
oh, okay, how do I How do I do this? Right?
So I look at the my imagery and I'm looking out and now I've
gotten on a second story of compound and I'm looking out at these bunkers and
I'm like, how do how do I do this? But I realized is
I'm looking at the bunkers, all the doorways, and they're shooting holes they
have set up or face towards the camp. So I realize, well,
we could clear this east to west and basically walk through this bunker field without
them having any eyesighter access to us as we walk up to the bunkers,
and so, you know, I guess I think it's a good plan.
So I briefed my Afghans and I'm like, hey, we don't when you
do this. There's no way we're gonna get shot if we do this.
And the Afghans are like, all right, we'll do it, and so
I'm like, okay, here we go. So me and my teammate and
you know, ten Afghans we come walking out the compound from the backside.
Now and I walk around the corner and again it's like Vietnam grass up to
your chest with these bunkers, and I'm like, this is the this is
the sketchiest thing I've ever seen in my life. Right, I know,
there's people everywhere. At any moment, anybody could pop up and start shooting,
and we breast. We get the whole element out into the grass,
and once as soon as we get out into the grass, machine gun fire
from across the way blasts out of nowhere. And then our team that our
other elements to our left is firing back at the machine guns. Machine gun
fire. Crazy. It Actually they actually aren't shooting at us, but we
don't know that right, So because we had just come out into the open,
it's actually the tal band shooting at our other element and them shooting back.
So we go running back around the corner, you know, like oh
ship that we're not we're not running out in that bunker field yet, but
you know, kind of like cowards with our tails between our legs, just
because this is so it's you know, it's like World War two for real.
It's like this is so sketchy, I would say, than cowardice,
you know, yeah, yeah, but you're like okay. So you know,
we compose ourselves and we're like, shit, all right, okay,
we can do this. They're not shooting at us. And so we we
walk out again, and you know, I have two an A s F
guys that are with me out front, and one of them who I mean,
this guy. When I talked earlier about some of these A and A
SF guys who were crazy, this dude his story. Basically, he had
been fighting in the ANASF for fifteen years. Talband came to his village when
he was six or seven years old and murdered his entire family in front of
him. So all he cared about was killing Talbot. And he was our
point He was our point man for this movement, and so he would walk.
You know, we're walking out. We get to the first bunker and
I made me ten feet away and he just walks straight up to the bunker
because again, you know, with the way the holes are, they can't
see us. He walks up to the bunker, he looks in, jumps
his head out and looks back at me, and he goes there's people in
here. And I'm like, well, okay, kill him, I guess,
and so you know, he grabs it through an as and he throws
him in and blows up the bunker and we end up clearing through probably like
five six seven more bunkers that way, of these an A Step guys just
walking up to the bunkers looking inside, oh god, and grenades and throwing
them in and eventually clearing through you know, this whole area that way,
which was again, you know, you know, combat is sketchy in general,
but that was definitely the sketchiest thing I'd ever done. But anyway,
so we we we get through this bunker field and we finally made it to
our last compound and then our other element. You know, they have to
make the same track, right they have to. They have to do it
through on their side, and we eventually, you know, clear all the
way through, and at this point we've just eliminated all these Talband and anyway,
so I was a getting with that they were Talband Red Unit guys.
So we found a bunch of mvgs and also we knew they were Talban Red
Unit because they gucci their guns, so they they're a ks. They flare
them out with all kinds of crazy ribbons and like you know, like,
yeah, yeah, it's like one of those things are like sort of that
Arab like, you know, you go into an Arab convenience store, how
flashy it is they do that with their hay case and everything. So all
the guns we were finding were you know, guccid out and crazy. But
something we've never talked about the Red Unit on this show, and I think
it was something that happened later on in the war. Can you can you
speak to that a little bit. Yeah, So basically Talban Red Unit were
the sort you could think of the Talband Talband special forces, right, and
they were guys that were being equipped well we don't know for sure, but
equipped from Iran most likely and then potentially Pakistan. But they were pretty much
exclusively through the southern part of Afghanistan at least while we were there. And
again they used them primarily to really hit the an A hard right, so
they would use their sort of their Talband soft guys to nail after an A
checkpoints and really cause sort of you know you d havoc on the Ana through
the south. So that was really their purpose and they were far better equipped.
They had body armor, they had night vision, they had all the
Gucci equip you know, Gucci equipment far so you know, they weren't just
regular Taliban villagers that were you know, fighting at the lowest levels. These
guys were were organized, they were equipped, they were funded, and again
they didn't want to fight the United States and they didn't want to fight us
off. They were there to you know, really cause damage and havoc to
the Ana who had you know, no chance at fighting guys like that.
Yeah. Sure, it's funny that you know, you mentioned how they sort
of like Gucci out there gear because when you think of like us off,
if I'm in a Gucci of my gear, like you have a a four
sixteen nupper, you do the camo paint on it, like you do that
for them, it's like bedazzling at putting dazzle flass. Yeah, yeah,
it's yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a very it's a strange sort of
comparison or dichotomy. You know how what they consider like gold, like if
they could afford, they gold plate it exactly. That's exactly what I'm talking
about. Yeah, so we thought a little bit of that. But yeah,
the big like the ribbons, the fancy color like yeah, peacock type
of stuff coming three k. Yeah. Yeah, that's how they that's how
you could tell that you had, you know, higher level of tier guys.
Yeah. But it's funny because even there their personal photos and I don't
mean the red the Redd Unit, I mean like Afghan or like their personal
photos are generally in a field of flowers or they're like that soft light old
like you know, family portrait style. You know. It's it's yeah,
it's interesting. It's it's an interesting contrast. Yeah, yeah, for sure,
you know. And it's funny because when you when you talk about like
this waist high grass and these bunkers, I think back, you know,
obviously like your dad was venom. I think back. It's like, boy,
it's too bad we stopped using napalm because that's a perfect like environment for
napalm, right, just burn that gas grass out. And we actually talked
about that because that was one of the things before. Again, this wasn't
like a three minute thing where I figured out a plan to to move through
this marker. This was like a thirty minute sure me trying to figure out
how to get these guys to agree with that. And part of that was,
you know, hey, can we get air to basically just blow this
bunk or field out and strike it. Yeah, the problem was at that
we could have technically, but at that time all are both our A tens
and our apaches had to go off station to refuel, so all we had
was fifteens, and the F fifteens were like, dude, we're not gonna
we don't We're not gonna strike an area, you know, twenty meters away
from you. Guys, like everything stanger close at that point for them.
Yeah, yeah, so we did. We did have them do a show
of force, the only time I ever had F fifteens do it, to
show a force over the top of us right before we went out to move,
which was I mean, that was actually insane if anybody hasn't had that
done, where they come down about one hundred feet off the ground, the
F fifteens, and then they punched their mock right as they go over the
top of you, and I mean it's like the shock wave blows out and
almost blows your ear drums out if you're not ready. But that was the
best we could get, you know, before we moved, because all our
other our actual assets that could strike close like that we're off station. So
yeah, So at any point in time when you were you know, the
other element, when they you guys were moving forward clearing these bunkers, you
know, with grenades, did they ever glean on did they ever catch on
to what was going on? Not really. I think that they were so
you know, having like thirty other dudes immediately smoked right out the gate,
I think, you know, I think that was just chaos for them.
I think it was basically hiding the bunkers and pant It was panic big time,
right because they thought, you know, they had controlled this area and
they were just kicking the ship out of the ANA for the last month,
and then all of a sudden, you know, and then so they're coming
out to oh, we're gonna we're gonna march on out and and mess these
guys up. And then all of a sudden, you know, it's like,
oh shit, the whole might of the American military and soft is here,
and what is left of who we have is now in these bunkers.
Probably communications gone at that point. Yeah, So I think that they were
just completely disheveled to the point of trying to hide and just survive at that
point because of that. The other thing is, you know, once that
AC, once that AC one thirty like comes in, you know, comes
over the mountain, they can hear just like that landmar in the sky like
they know what that means, right, every buddy, Yeah, everything,
the ANA knows the Taliban, everybody knows they called big Brother, right,
everybody the others who the big brother is A dude is And that's why we
that mountain range was so awesome is that we were able to keep our aircraft,
you know, with in strike distance but just right on the other side
of that mountain range to where they just kind of sat up over the top
in orbit and boom. Yeah, that's amazing. So so once you guys
clear this and you move forward to the ANA compound, like what happens?
I'm You're they're obviously relieved, right yeah, so oh man, yeah for
sure. So we cleared through that, we get to the compound and then
you know, we go in, we meet all the guys and we get
all their wounded out and then all they're dead, which we then had to
basically carry out and X fill out, which I think they had like nine
or ten nine or ten bodies which had been there a long long time.
But yeah, so we got those on helicopters and uh and got all those
guys out of there, and you know, that camp was fined after that
because the Taban you know, they bailed out of that area. They were
like, oh god, the Americans are are We're willing to fight. But
it it gained as such massive appreciation with our partner force more so than anything
else that we did. That was a huge deal for that relationship between us
and our and our third Sock commandos that we did that for them, which
was cool to be able to do that too, you know, because you
can imagine from those guys in that camp's perspective, they're just trying to survive.
You know, your buddies are dead everywhere around you. There's nothing left
for you to do. You're struggling to hang on and then you know,
we show up and kill everybody that's been you know, smoking your unit for
the last month and uh and get your guys out. So, yeah,
that was definitely a really cool thing to be a part of. What was
it sketchy when you guys were approaching the am combat? How did you deconflict
so they didn't fire you up? Not really because they had R A and
A guys had comms with their guys in the compound from pretty much the time
we hit the ground, so yeah, they knew. So we had cleared
through. We didn't clear straight up to the compound. We cleared to the
final sort of compound, the Talband head control, which is like another one
hundred meters away from the compound, and then basically Radio had them the team
leaders and we had the Afghans obviously lead and go get the dead bodies and
whatnot. Yeah, we didn't go with them into the compound, but yeah,
they had they had comms with their own guys, so that wasn't wasn't
really any prom at all. Now do you guys like, did I sart
pick up? Did anybody x hill from that area to the taliband? Do
you know that you got all the bunkers So we definitely, yeah, we
definitely had dudes after the AC when thirty struck that initial engagement. Yeah,
there was guys leaving that area like oh yeah all over it was you know,
from the fringes. Yeah they were gone. But all those guys who
were basically bunkered in that were attacking the A and A compound, there was
nowhere for them to go. Yeah, I mean it was yeah, they
they there was nowhere to run too. But the guys on the fringes,
yeah, they bailed and they got on their motorcycles. Everybody was gone once
they as soon as they heard the AC one thirty and the big one O
fives come in, it was like, if you can get out, get
out. Yeah for sure. So how did that? You know, so
your afghans go in, they recover the bodies. How did that operation end
for you guys? Yeah? So well, interesting way that ended. So,
yeah, we brought all the bodies out. There was a big,
big open field that sort of we had we had to move through as we
went through the compounds. So it was a good place to bring our our
helicopters in and interesting with that. So we had two Chinooks and I think
three black Hawks. We had an extra Blackhawk come in able to help bring
the bodies out, and they all came in sort of at the same time.
And my elements where we were posted up, well, we watched all
the helicopters come in and land and then No. Sage forty seven lands in
front of us, and so you know, I'm looking around like okay,
we're kind of missing we're missing one, you know what I mean, and
watching and you know, we do these things quick, right, the helicopters
hit the ground and get on the helicopter you leave, and so I'm watching
that and then up they go, up, they go up they go,
and all of a sudden, all the helicopters in the air and my element
is just standing on the ground and we're an enemy's territory, right, this
is a again, this is a place where we're way outside the med ring.
So it's like, this is not a place we want to get left.
But apparently whatever this last chinook, you know, he was like a
kilometer away in an open field by himself for whatever reason. But so luckily
I was able to still talk to my commander on on my radio. I'm
like, hey man, nobody has picked us up. So all the other
helicopters loitered and we're able to talk on the final helicopter to come by and
actually pick our element up like ten minutes later. But it was like,
okay, this is super sketchy, you know, this is this is a
dangerous area, which we know Talvian are are in the area. But you
know, I think they again we just talked about they had all bailed out
of the area. So yeah, that's dangerous, but it's still kind of
like, Okay, we really don't want to get left. Yeah, you
know, two hours outside of the med ring. Yeah. But but but
that pilot maybe it was the student driver or whatever, like yeah, I
don't know. We have yeah, you know, the one sixtieth is one
thing. But those guys are amazing. But some of our regular army pilots,
some of the stuff we saw was like, man, just an aside.
This is from just talking about Shinook pilots from a mission that really didn't
have much happened to it at all. But at the very end when we
were getting picked up, we got one of the crazier things that happened in
our employment. Same thing. So all our elements are we're getting ready to
Xville. We're in our line of twenty guys standing in line CCT is I
R open in the CG forty seven's on the ground. We're watching. We
got two pH forty sevens coming in right at us. Two elements side by
side. The first forty seven you know, it comes in lands fifty meters
in front of that element, just perfect. And then we're watching our ch
forty seven and we're like, man, he's still really really high up in
the air, like why is he not coming in? And then it's getting
closer and closer and closer to us, and we start to realize like,
ohkay, he's gonna fly, only it looks like almost right on top of
us. And by the time we realize it, we're like, oh god,
he's gonna land on us. And so everybody off running in different directions
in this siege forty seven pilot comes in. He realizes he's basically getting a
land on top of us, and he yanks his pitch to not land to
the point, and so we're kind of at the bottom of a hill like
this right here, right, so we're sitting down here, and so he
yanks his pitch to not land now, and so that his back rotors smack
off the ground where we are all we're just standing breaks the ground, which
would have killed everybody, how they are not all just jumped out of the
way, and then his rotors hitting it launches him upright and he almost heat
kettles the entire stage forty seven up on top of it so and then barely
to get it back up to get around to come and get us. But
just aside for some of the crazier things you see some of those pilots,
do you think that was mostly an experience? Was our brown out because he
had there a bird had already been in or yeah, so we you know
in the Kandahar area and Helmet area, like brownouts they're like re single landing
just because it's it's the way the terrain is. Yeah, so that the
inexperienced pilots really really struggle. Yeah, with the brown outse the experienced pilots
are so used to it that they just let their instruments fell. What to
do they land, they don't really care. Yeah, but the but the
inexperienced pilots, for sure, those brown outs can't cause along. Yeah.
Yeah, it's funny because I remember I flow with the Marines like a Marine
forced Recon team once and we're on the marine birds and as they were landing,
I was like it, like the rear seems really it seems like it's
down, like like we're not landing level. And I was thinking, maybe
this is maybe this is just how these birds land. I don't know,
but I look around all like the Marines and their eyes are all like this
big, and I'm like, oh, this isn't how they land at all,
No, I think, you know. And the brown outs that's really
calm and too. You'll see that where like it'll start to tilt and they
will be like more and more like they're trying to get the butt of the
ramp to touch so they feel better about it. But you're looking out the
back like, Okay, this is yeah, this is not good. Yeah,
I mean. And and to be fair to helicopter pilots like it,
it's a very challenging, challenging environment to fly in for sure. And it's
not just you know, it's night they're under night vision, they're dealing with
instruments. It's a brown out. Yeah, they're worried about getting shot down
by an RPG from who knows where, ye, because they got all that
going on at the same time. And you know, a lot of those
guys, I'm sure it's you know, I'm probably probably their first combat rotation.
They're actually flying for real, you know, stress of that on top
of it. Yeah, and for people who might not know, I know
a lot of you do. But for people who know brown simply when when
a helicopter is coming in, obviously it's kicking up a lot of air,
a lot of dust, and places like Afghanistan where the dust is it's like
silt. Sometimes it's like talcum powder in some places, and it just it
creates a brand out where they can't see anything and they're they're on pure instruments.
I mean, it's almost like it's almost like moon dust exactly. It's
like and you're you're right. I mean, it's there's no vision at all.
You know. Sometimes we'll jump off the back and it's like I'm gonna
run twenty feet in front of me and and face out. Yeah, and
just great because you can't see anything. Yeah, yeah, but yeah,
moon dust is really you know, it's like you step in it. It's
like, like I said, it's like talcum powder, just like puffs everywhere.
So sure. So, uh, were there any like significant operations for
you guys, any fun operations for you guys after that one? Oh?
I mean those are you know again, we there's there's the most the other
operations have like little bits or pieces that are cool or fun, you know,
but those are those were three of the the biggest ones. Again,
we had another operation just for talking about it wasn't that cool because we didn't
really get any gunfights. But we found the number nine most wanted talban on
the Jupitalists at the time, Objective ice Pick I think his name was at
the time. So for people who don't know, you know, we rack
into the US government racks and stacks, you know, the most wanted terrorists
in areas. So that was that. That mission really didn't we didn't have
any It was kind of a we infield. Nobody wanted to fight and just
happened that we found the guy that we were looking for. So nothing exciting
there. The result was cool. But but yeah, I could talk,
I could talk briefly about my very first combat operation and some of them diculousness
that that happened. That's kind of funny. Please do, dude, if
you wanted to hear that. Yeah, so my very first combat operation.
Right, so again, my very first one. We fly in on the
one sixty and we land on the target and we're in an area in a
ruse gone that looks like Jesus Christ lived there. I mean it is mud
huts two thousand BC. Rural type of environment. Right there is no green
anywhere you look. It's ten foot tall, you know, dried out mud
walls, sort of like the face of the moon type of things. Every
compound wall has murder holes in it as far as you can look. So
we hit the X. We jump off. I'm not an element leader at
this point. It's my first mission. My buddy is. And then so
there's some really funny This has really got really funny stuff that goes with it.
We didn't we got in a gunfight at the end, but more funny
stuff. So right out the gate are her. We're riding in the one
sixtieth and so these guys don't mess around. They fly nap of the earth,
which for those who don't know, it's right off the top of the
surface of the earth. They fly out the whole way, They fly in
fast, they drop, you jump off the aircraft and they're gone. There's
no messing around. So we we we hit the X. We jump off,
they take off. I look up. There's a compound right in front
of us, and immediately we have are my team leaders with me, our
commander and no, no he's not, he's not with us. He's in
the other element, and yeah, he's in the other element, and we
have our our our CCT with us. And so for everybody who knows,
the combat controller and the team leader the ground force commander always side by side
because they work together for any stripes. So our CCP is with us,
and our commander is a thousand meters away, and our CTT is looking around,
and he was like, where am I what happened? So I guess
what happened? Is the other aircraft that he was supposed to be on with
the team leader when they landed, he was like trying to get unclipped from
you know, the radio and the aircraft. He didn't do it in time.
By the time he got unclipped and looked that one sixtieth pilots took back
off and then they were they were jumping the other half of the element over
with us because we sort of did a split and fill, and so he
gets dropped offs with us, and so immediately first operation he's like, oh
God, what happened? I don't know where the commander is? And so
are my seat my senior medics, same guy I talked about earlier. He's
like the one with so many combat deployments. He's like, okay, I'll
take you and I'm gonna walk you across all these murder holes. First mission
back to the team leader. Right. So that's how that mission starts,
which is just ridiculous. And so we start moving our way through these first
compounds, and I mean it's like everything out of your worst nightmare when it
comes to I EDS there is there are wires everywhere you're walking through, wires
are getting tangled up in your legs. Everything looks like an ied nightmare.
Right. So, very first operation I'm carrying because in the plan we're gonna
knock down this defensive fighting position. I'm carrying the Carl Gustaff on my back
with rockets, right, so that which I never ever did again, right,
this is a one time thing that I did. And so I've got
the car Goostaf on my back. You know, for those who don't know,
it's this big rocket launcher and I'm carrying it around getting tripped up in
wires. And we move up and it's maybe you know, or maybe thirty
minutes in we get to this first compound that I'm supposed to knock down with
my Carl Gustaf. So that way because it's a defensive fighting position. We
can tell from the immagery this is this is an nobs you know, you
can see it built up. We're gonna knock down a hole in the wall.
That way, we can come in the side of it. We don't
have to, you know, stand out and trying to breach it and deal
with getting grenades throwing on us or anything like that. So my my senior
eighteen delta again, he he's my AG and we run out into the open
and he's like, all right, man, let's let's shoot. Let's knock
this ball down. So I run out and you know, again my first
time at operation ever, and I'm like okay, and I am and wind
up and I'm like, where's the wall, you know? And oh god,
you know, I don't know. I'm like, I'm so mixed up
now, I don't know what's going on. And so he grabs me and
he was like, dude, it's over here. He turns me one hundred
and eighty degrees, you know, linds me up onto the wall and he's
like, okay, okay, let's let's shoot it. And I'm looking at
the wall. I'm like, aren't we too close to this. You know,
we still laugh about this. We're like thirty meters away from this wall
with Carl Gustaf and he's like and again, same same guy who sprinted towards
the bullets in the near ambush. She's like, no, we're fine,
we're fine. Don't worry though. I'm like okay, And so, you
know, he puts the rocket in. I lined it up, and you
know, I clack it off, boom, and of course the concussion basically
knocks us both down because we're so close and you know, dust everywhere.
I get up, I'm looking at the wall, you know, it starts
to settle, settle, settle, and I look over at him. I'm
like, what did I miss? What happened? And he's like, no,
you hit the wall. But these walls were like two three feet the
just sun dried mud. This goo stop round did nothing and just knocked the
dust stop of the wall. And so we're like, oh, oh god,
what do we do? And then we look we look over in our
Afghans had been watching us, and they just rolled their eyes and they just
walked in the front gate of this DFPED. So we're like, okay,
well, all right, we feel pretty silly right now. So we you
know, we run over and just walk in. We get inside this this
compound, and immediately everything I've been told and the trained up for the last
nine months is we use our We had special Afghan guys. Can't get into
sensitivity of it, but they would basically be mine sweeping guys for us.
So we don't walk anywhere that those guys have. They walk in front of
us everywhere where we walk. That's all I've been taught for the last nine
months. We get inside the compounds, some stuff starts happening. My same
eighteen delta, you know, while while this can be is like, oh,
we need to get over there, and he's like, he's like,
let's go, let's go, And so he just takes off, running through
an area that hasn't been cleared yet with no mind detect your guys, and
an area that looks like there's an ID in every step you could take.
And so I'm like, okay, so we take off. We're going and
doing this and that. We get to this sort of half wall on a
compound and again it's all these dirt mud walls and everybody's jumping over it to
get to the next thing again, I got this giant Carl Gustav on my
back. I go to step over the wall like that, you know,
the walls like this. I go to step over it like this, and
the ground beneath me falls out. And so now I'm being held up on
my nuts and I'm stuck with the Carl Gustav on the wall, and I
have to have these Afghans come over and basically lift and drag me up over
the top of this wall to get me out of there. So it's getting
more and more ridiculous. Right as I'm carrying the stupid thing. We get
a little bit further in the objective, and we had an EOD tech on
our team who had like five or six combat deployments and was one of the
craziest dudes I've ever seen. He I don't know how he was alive anymore.
And I'll tell you an example of why. So we roll up and
this was in between this and this part was when my buddy through the therm
America and the collapse. One of the things that blew my blew my lips
open, right, So all this stuff is happening, right, So it's
just I'm like, this is what combat is. This is ridiculous, right,
I'm I'm struggling. I'm trying to I've also got this giant rocket on
my back, and I'm trying to get through the doorways of these buildings.
And you know, the Afghans are small, so these buildings they're like four
foot tall built doorways by three feet. So I'm, you know, and
I'm six foot two with this giant rocket launch from my back, struggling to
get through. And then we finally are getting towards the end of the objective
and we find a cachet down in a basement. It's just massively filled with
explosives, not not massively, but quite a bit of explosives down this sort
of basement. And my eighteen delta he's like, I'm gonna move on and
keep clearing towards the end of the end of the objective. Here, you
guys, go ahead, you and the EOD tech and go ahead and bip
that. And so I'm like, okay. So I look down in it
and again it's the basement is like, that's the most i d looking thing
I've ever seen. No way, I'm you know, no way I'm going
down there. My EOD tech is like, Oh, it's no big deal.
I'll go throws some four on that. He runs down the stairs,
goes and sets these C fours on all the C four blocks on all this
rigs a rigs. The charge comes back up, and so we're standing next
to the mud wall with the basement that's sort of beneath us to the left,
and he hands me the like the clacker. Yeah, he has me
the clacker, and he's like, do you want to blow it up?
And I'm like, all right, man, I guess right. So he's
like, all right, go for it, you know. And we got
our we got our shoulders to the wall, you know, we're hunkered down,
and I do you know, I'm like push quarter turn pull. Nothing
happens. And he's like do it again, and I'm like push cord turn
pull, nothing happens. It's like it's fit and now it's failed and I'm
like, oh god right, and so he then we just had a failed
failed explosive on this. He runs back down onto the charge after this has
just failed, which you, like, anybody who's been around explosives nose like
this is the last thing you would ever right, yeah, exactly. Insane
and again, this is my first combat operation. All this is happening.
I'm watching this like I'm watching these guys. That's done, you know,
multiple deployments is crazy shit, Like this is what we're so, this is
what we do. We just do insane shit like this. So he runs
down, rigs it up, and he rigs way longer, a way longer
charge on it this time, so we're able to like back up like fifteen
more feet and get behind a different wall. And I'm like, okay,
this seems a little bit more safe. And so we get behind the wall
and this time push for a turn. Let it off. Boom. Right,
the explosion is so big that it's basically raining mud clods like across the
entire objective. There's Afghan's running around try to get under cover, and I
look up and the building with the basement that we just had our shoulders next
to right is gone. It's a giant crater in the ground. And I
look at him and I'm like, we were we were standing next to that
when we tried to clack that off the first time, you know, And
he was like, oh, whoops, now it worked out, so yeah,
that's and then uh okay, so and then the final part of that
for sort of funny thing and first operation. So we get through that,
we get to the sort of the line of advance, which was these two
story compounds that ended up in a big vegetative field, and so we basically
got up on top of these buildings and there was actually tal band that were
maneuvering out in the grass and sort of a gunfight sort of kicked off as
me and another guy were up on top of the roof and you know,
both start flying. So we just you know, start way laying rounds out
into the forest. Crazy basically, you know, we're not really shooting at
anything, like panicking, you know, like backing up, getting down behind
cover. And you know, my the same eighteen delta I was just talking
about so many combat deployments. He like looks up over the ladder is watching
us and just starts laughing at us, and he's like, what are you
guys even shooting now? You know what I mean? And we're like,
is that worth the CIB? And he's like, no, no chance.
But but yeah, so that was sort of my first, uh my first
time on a combat mission with just ridiculous stuff happening around me and it's funny
too, because like there's there are best practices, right, there are the
things that like, this is how we do it. But then there's the
reality and the practicality of yeah, we're not waiting for our our Iraqi like
mind sweepers like to go ahead of us before every step we take exactly.
Yeah. So that right out the gate on that mission was me realizing like,
oh, you know, and then later, you know, later in
combat missions and later in my career, you know, you don't you're done
and think about stuff like that. But when you're a brand new guy and
you've been training to standard and then you're watching all these older guys just like
not do any of the things that you know you said were the most important
things to do. Yeah, it's funny. Yeah, And and combat is
one of those things right where because of that it's ludicrous, Like combat is
just ludicrous and the worst things happen, and the funniest things happen, like
yes, right, and everything's like heightened and elevated. Yeah, And you
know it's funny because you say that is because some of the funniest stories.
For example, you know that right after that near ambush, me laughing at
Afghans taking tournament kids off their buddies, right, painest things with hilarious things,
And it's like people that haven't ever experienced it, they can't really understand.
You know. I've had people say before when I'm telling those stories,
you know you might you're laughing at things in the story, and they're like
they can't figure out. They're like, this is intense and horrible. How
could you be laughing at that? And it's like, well, you have
to really understand sort of the morbid reality of what's going on, yeah,
and have that that has to be part of your sense of humor. Otherwise
I don't think you could really function. Yeah, you know, and as
it is so dark, right, and the humor is that like pressure release
a lot of times, like you know, when a guy's clearing a building
under fire and he steps in like like a toilet hole and comes out,
comes out to the knee coated and human, you know, like and shit,
yeah right, yeah, it's like it's like it's like, yeah,
you're still under fire, but this is absolutely hilarious. Yeah. Yeah,
And and there's there's a lot of that yeah, And and I hope people
don't you know, And I tell the stories. I hope people don't think
that I'm a cavalier about some of this stuff, you know, because I
can laugh about so in reality, you know, I've gone through a ton
of behavior help to deal with things I've been through, yeah, you know,
years of work with therapists. But but you have to be able to
laugh about stuff like that because I think, you know, you have to
compartmentalize it, yeah, somehow if you want to, you know, continue
to lead a decent mental stability in your life. Yeah, but I think
that you see the same type of behavior and like er doctors and nurses like
like you know, you you have to find that that uh that lining right,
Yeah, I think I think that's a that's a good example for sure.
People that you know, see a lot of death and tragedy. For
sure, you have to be able to departmentalize that. Yeah. Yeah.
So uh so that was that was all like one that was a super active
deployment and yeah, and again those were just three of the like the big
ones. Every mission we had, you know, I think we killed close
to six hundred confirmed you know, so those three missions was probably one hundred
and fifty to two hundred. So you know, you still got ten more
missions where sporadic, ten twenty guys, ten twenty taliban here there, you
know, small gunfights here there, quick snippets, you know, things like
that. But yeah, it was it definitely was a huge, hugely kinectic
deployment overall. For sure. You know, you spoke to something earlier,
you know, a little bit uh that, you know, when you were
in the bunkers or when you're taking out Like one of the things that people
don't understand in combat, especially when it's at night under night vision, it's
very confusing, right, Like a lot of times you don't even like one
of your buddies might be in a gunfight and you have no idea where the
fire is coming from. Like it's just very confusing for sure. For example,
you know, the guy who got shot next to me, part of
that being in her night visions, I can't see what type of uniform he
has on. I don't know, Yeah, I can't tell. I can
see his face, I can't see really much about him. Right of me
being worried? Is that my teammate, right, you know? And I
don't want to sound morbid about it, but had I known right away that
that wasn't my teammate, I wouldn't have been concerned whatever at all. Then
Afghan just got shot at and more focused on the gunfight. But you know,
that's sort of an example of what you're talking about of sort of that
flog of war, especially in her night vision, is a real thing for
sure. Yeah, So so you guys finish up your twenty eighteen deployment and
then you're back on the shoot, basically starting a training cycle for another deployment.
So, yeah, what had happened? So we come back from the
twenty eighteen deployment and that team had been together for almost three years, almost
every guy on that team, So it was sort of that time in everybody's
career where broadening assignments were happening. Some of the high ranking guys were moving
into the E eight realm to take their own teams. So the team I
had, I had to have surgery on both my knees, so and some
other guys had injuries they had to deal with. So the team, that
team sort of broke apart for the most part, and then I did.
I had recovery on my knees and I ended up going to a mountain team
after that because by the time I had recovered my the dive team I was
on had replaced the eighteen Echoes, and my start major asked me if I
if I wanted to go ahead and be on a mountain team, which you
know, I felt cool. That's a new experience. Which that one,
you know, I uh, no combat on that one. We did a
cool trip to Mongolia, which that was an interesting one. Not many guys
have been to Mongolia, which was was a fun trip. But I was
only on a mountain team for about a year and a half until twenty twenty
ish when the eighteen Delta, my senior eighteen Delta I've been talking about this
whole time. He had taken a low team out in Okinawa and there was
another Afghanistan rotation getting ready to be spun up for the pre train up,
and he had one of the only teams from Okinawa that were that had that
was gonna be going to Afghanistan because most teams from most teams hadn't from Okinawa
hadn't been to combat in years. And so I reached out to him and
was like, hey, you need an eighteen Echo. This was also going
to get me out of being a switch instructor, so I was able to
you know, stay on a team by bypassing that. So he was able
to hold eighteen echo slot for me. I was able to PCs out to
Okinawa get on his team, and then we started another train up for the
next Afghanistan rotation that we were going to do in twenty twenty one, which
I I could talk a little bit about that because that is going to lend
into obviously what everybody saw with what happened in Afghanistan. I don't know if
we want to talk about things that are that politically charged on Yeah, yeah,
I mean yeah, I mean it's history. Well let's not avoid it.
I mean, it is what it is. But I'm going to assume
that that at this point in time, you're the older, wiser man who
voiced the Carl Gustavs off to the Bravos. Yeah. You know, at
this point, I'm five years on a team, right, so you know,
I'm a I'm a senior E seven at this point, element leader.
You know, I'm getting brought to the team to be sort of that guy
that you know, my eighteen delta who was that senior guy for me with
that experience as a team guy he's sort of is bringing me to the team
to sort of be that guy for his team, sort of that right underneath
him, senior leader at this point going into the next time at So,
how does that so tell us about that you got you got, you got
to Okinawa? You go to that the first group team out there? Yeah,
so I so he was in So I go see, he's got a
Halo team out in Okinawa. And again most Okanawah hadn't been to Afghanistan in
almost a decade just because for whatever reason, but I don't know why,
we just all of a sudden decided we wanted two teams from Okinawa to go
on the next Afghanistan deployment. I guess because of the highest levels Command was
upset that Okinawa wasn't holding their weight in the combat realm. I don't know
whatever, But of course, you know my wild old eighteen delts a senior.
He was the one that managed, of course to find his way to
be team sergeant, to be the team that was going to go back to
combat, because that's what that's what he did. So I wanted to be
a part of that. So he saved me a slot on the team at
PCs out there. I get to the team, and I mean they're in
train up for Afghanistan when I get to the team. So they are currently
in Safawik, which is our Special Forces Urban and Sulter course, So usually
as an ODA before combat, you do that together for about about a month,
which really trains tons of urban combat, CQB, all that different stuff
as an ODA, so they're they're in the middle of that course when I
get out to Okinawa and then moving straight into the premission training cycles of PMT
one two and then a battalion validation, so sort of three different PMT events
that we do sort of that six month build up to a combat deployment.
So that's how I get out there. But yeah, so we do our
which is funny because we get out to Okinawa and then all our PMT stuff
is in America, so I pc PCs out to Japan and immediately spin the
next year back in America training and so we uh and the team on months
very good. So we but again we're the one Okinawa team that's going to
deploy with one of the battalions from Group Maine, so nobody really was that
happy about us being there, you know. We're sort of like step child.
That was sort of us and a one of the teams from SCO the
Crift was also with us that was going to be a part of it,
but we ended up being one of the highest ranked teams at the validation,
which sort of made sense because we had our team sergeant was the eighteen Delta
US talking about insane amount of combat experience. Amazing leader. You had me
as one of the element leaders, and then the second element leader on our
team was one of the senior guys from that eighteen that twenty eighteen trip on
our sister team that was in Hellman, so we had a huge senior corps
of guys. Our eighteen Bravo had multiple combat deployments, so again we had
a a odia with a lot of combat experience again ready to go. So
we were looking at having a pretty good mission going into that trip, which
would have been into twenty twenty one. And then yeah, so we got
to we finished our both our PMTs, our validation, and we got back
to Okinawa. We went on our thirty days pre deployment leave, which is
a pretty standard thing after your BMTs, you know, you spend your time
with your family, you grow out your beard, you get ready to leave,
right, and so we had shipped all of our equipment and the is
s us too. I think it is going through Dubai into Afghanistan. I
mean, we are that close to deploy to Afghanistan, right, Like we
are three weeks and we got like a week left. I got my beard
grown out, We're ready to go. We're supposed to go to Bogram basically
ideally most likely going to be facilitating the an entire Soda, so upwards of
eighteen to twenty one oders we're going to be at Bogram to basically facilitate the
probably six months of leaving Afghanistan. Sort of the idea at the time.
You know, I'm not an officer, I don't know the exact battle plan,
but that sort of was the idea, which you know made sense because
you know, for what people don't realize is that we would have one soda
for that same amount of odas that held control of the entire country of Afghanistan
at a time, right, So you're gonna have that level of firepower just
up in Bogram to be able to facilitate that. And then we get the
announcement basically right before we're going to leave of trips canceled. You guys aren't
going, We're shipping your gear back and we end up basically getting told we're
going to Australia and said next week. So you can imagine we are not
happy. Nobody's happy, and it's it's not our team, it's the entire
SODA. No SF guys will now be going into Afghanistan. So we just
pulled out the guys who were there, all the teams and are sodaf was
supposed to be the ones that backfilled that, and you know, the powers
that be decided we don't need that. And then here's the reality of what
we saw happen right after that and the catastrophe of the fall of Kabul and
Bagram in Afghanistan. So again I hate to get to political, but the
reality is I know that that didn't have to happen the way it happened because
we were literally supposed to be there. And so people understand the Talban will
not fight a Soda from green brets. They won't fight an Oda of green
berets. Right, all you would need us is just to be there,
and the whole thing would have never happened because they wouldn't have fought us.
They wouldn't have tried, They would have just waited, right But as soon
as they found out, oh there's no more bearded ones, Okay, now
we'll just take the country over. That's the sad reality of you know,
what has happened. And I've watched you know, the podcasts of some of
the guys that have lost legs and arms that were a part of that,
and the guys that were killed, and it was all needless. None of
that has happened. So it's sad for sure. And obviously, you know,
I haven't really wanted to talk about that before, but it just pisses
me off so much. You know, I've lost you know, best friends
and teammates to that, to that war. The hardest part about it is
that is the is the guys have lost to that and the time I spent
there and it was to watch that happen. So now it's to me,
it's a point where it's like I don't care, I'm gonna I'm just gonna
be honest and tell the truth of what happened and what we had available and
the decisions that you know, the government made people should know that. I
think they should know that a better, a better plan was in place and
we actively decided grew it. We don't care, We're gonna do it this
way instead. Right, Yeah, And you know, it's interesting that how
you're speaking about this because and we've talked about it on the show a couple
of times, but you know, people talk about post traumatic stress a lot,
but something that doesn't come up in popular conversation yet is the idea of
moral injury, you know, and this this idea that and obviously you know,
guys for Vietnam definitely had this too, especially guys who worked closely with
the indigenous peoples. It is this idea that you look at an event like
that and you say, it's not even withdrawing from Afghanistan, because I think
that I think that all like veterans and all like military people were like,
yes, there needs to be a plan in place for withdrawing, Like we
don't know what we're doing there. We're not like we it's like you talked
about the vso we took this ground and then we give it up. You
know, our our government at no point in time ever had a cohesive idea
of what victory meant there, but then to just turn around and and leave
the way we left. Yeah, it was psychologically. First off, it
was harmful to the troops that were there. It was harmful to the Afghans
or Afghan allies. And then it was also harmful to the veterans, you
know, and and you know and the people involved in that who had been
involved in war that well that was shitty. Yeah yeah, and you know,
and you're right, even when I was there, it was kind of
like what a you know, what exactly are we doing here? Right?
So once we had eliminated, isis al Kada's gone? I mean, I'm
not an idiot. The Talban didn't care about global politics and everything. They
just wanted everybody out so that they could, you know, kind true the
way they wanted it, right, was the Taliban, you know, conducting
terrorism across the world. No, like you know, were aholes. They're
they're horrible, Like it's horri They're horrible the way they treat women, the
way they you know, treat people. But is it our job to go
everywhere and get rid of all horrible people all over the world? Exactly?
And And that's what I mean, is that, like I'm I think we
were all we were all aware the only reason we were fighting was for the
guys next to us right when I was there, you know what I mean.
But at the same time, you know, especially you know our guys,
like our Hazaran guys that were basically been keeping SF guys alive and keeping
our legs on our bodies for fifteen years. Those guys, I mean so
many times I would go to step somewhere and they would stop me, grab
me, and they would make sure they stepped in front of me if they
would take that id before I took it. Those were some of the people
that we decided not and those were the ones that got slaughtered by the Talban
because the Talban knew that they had been working with us offt for so long,
you know, So you're right, I think, you know, I
talked me and I get to talk to my dad about that one a lot,
having you know, him being an a CAM guy in Vietnam and dealing
with the endage, and we talk sort of that same thing of you know,
we did the same thing to to the uh, the munt yards and
the vietname Vietnamese when we left Vietnam. Yeah, we left them to get
slaughtered too. So it's a it is tough, and you know, it's
it's again one of those things where I've you know, sort of just kept
my mouth shut about it for a long time, but I just kind of
tired of doing that because it just angers me so much in a lot of
ways, just being a guy who knew that, you know, like and
again, one of the frustrating things is like guys like me, su guys
with at the time, I would had seven years seam time, combat experience,
all these things. I would have been there on the ground in charge
Odier's facilitating that, and instead we sent a bunch of kids from the eighty
second that we're eighteen nineteen years old to do that, you know what I
mean, That's what really drives me crazy is that you know, we had
guys like me and my teammates that you know, what have you trained us
for for this whole time that like you had everything you needed, you know,
you had you had delta, you had a whole soda Like everything was
there, So it wasn't like we didn't have a better option. And I
think that's what angers somebody, angers us so much in that yard. Yeah,
it was administrator. It was an administrative failure. And whether it was
with you know, the administration, with Biden or with the military or State
department, like, I don't know how it all broke down, but yeah,
but it was a failure, a complete failure. Yeah. And again
I have no idea where the order for us not to go came from.
Clue. It was just hey, you're not going right there, we're right,
So let me see if we have any questions. Do do you mind
checking patroon? Let me see if we have any questions for you? What
are you doing now? Where can people find you? Yeah? So I
retired left least month and I am currently a firearms instructor, so start my
own business. So my my YouTube is Valhalla Firearms Training, so sort of
you know, Viking Baalhalla Firearms Training, same thing on Instagram and just subs
bet on what I do. So I kind of think of what I do
is sort of being a Green Beret and four civilians, right, So I
teach all kinds of different stuff, concealed carry courses, to trauma medicine,
teach basic to basic pistol to rifle courses, but also more advanced stuff and
advanced carbine courses CQB things like that. I'm just getting started. I'm going
to be relocating down in Oregon here in a couple of weeks, but but
yeah, that's going pretty well. Looking to hopefully get into working with you
know, the squat teams and the Sheriff's department and things like that down there,
really transferring all that knowledge that I have, not only to that,
but also to sort of the civilian community so that they can you know,
defend and protects you know, their families as well, because I think there's
so much that that we learn and we get trained into that is applicable to
civilians as well. So, like I tell people, you know, I'm
insanely well versed in CQUB. It's the thing I took to the most of
my career. I love it more than anything. But that's transferable to everyone
because if you're a gun owner and you have a home, what is your
home? Your home is a CQB situation, you know what I mean?
Do you know how to fight off a home invader? Things like that.
So so yeah, that's what I'm doing right now, is is ideally,
you know, I work for the government for so long, hopefully I can,
you know, build my own business, which is going really well so
far, already have that all started, but you know, hopefully doing the
part of my military career as a green brain that I love, and then
you know, transitioning that into the civilian world as well, because I think
you have a lot of beneficial stuff to impart on people that are interested in
that's fantastic. So can people come to you for their Karl Gustaf training needs?
Also, Yeah, no, I don't have a I don't have a
Carl Gustaf. And I also don't shoot him anymore. Had my brain rattled
one too many? Yeah exactly. Yeah, yeah, you only need to
be the Karl Gustaf. Is one of those things like when they're like,
hey we have extra rounds, who wants to shoot them? Liver is like,
yeah, I'm good. No, I'm good, I'm good. I'm
good. So Joe's gotcha. Thank you very much. I know you're not
sought a but in the timeframe you were an Afghan Stan did you see the
Taliban adapting changing and to our sigate capabilities. Oh that's a good one.
So we had we always had Sauda's with us on mission. But I really
I hate to try to talk on things that I'm not an expert on,
and that's really you know, the SAUTA realm is really their own separate thing.
So I don't have a good answer on that. Actually don't know on
that one. Yeah. Now, as an echo, you didn't have any
like big draw to the sata's. You're like, how you guys do your
thing? Yeah, surprisingly, so not really. I mean as an eighteen
echo, I didn't really get into a whole lot of that because we had
usually had two sada's attached. Yeah, and again we're so split. We're
still split up on four different elements. Like your MS is sort of a
very very second everything. Yeah, you know, whether you're an at Echo
or Charlie or Bravo, like in combat, you are an operator on an
element. You know, for my specific MOLS, that pretty much was over.
You know, once we left the team room, once everybody's radios or
filled and you know, everything's good and everybody's got comms, you know,
they other than me being dual commed and listening in on you know, also
the aircraft and things like that. Like that side of it was pretty much
over. The rest of it was you know, focused on clearing operations and
that side of Yeah, you know you mentioned, uh, you know that
you had these combat enablers in your CECT guy and you guys had a lot
of error like we've talked about on the show before, like the J tax
A CCT the tach ps, like how how professional, like how good those
guys are are at their jobs. Yeah, so, I mean I I
am a so tech, I am tax So I can't talk on that.
But you know, for us as an SF guy, I so many sort
of hats and jobs that I'm wearing, especially as you get into senior levels
of it where you might be a main element leader. So for example,
if I'm a main element leader and I'm in control of moving thirty you know,
thirty guys, I can't also be the guy who's battle tracking everyone around
me, who's who's controlling aircraft, who's telling and strikes. There's no way
that I could ever do both of those things. So typically, you know,
I do know a few SF guys so tax that that did do it
in combat there were their team's main guys, but for the most part,
we usually had Air Force CCTs or jtax attache just because our workload's way too
high to be able to handle stuff. And that's a full time job.
I mean, yeah, it's hard to do that and anything else. No,
it's an MLS by itself, and you know, it's the most it's
the most important MS or job on the ground as well, and it's the
most dangerous one because if you messed up, you're gonna kill your own guys.
So there's no room for erro on that at all. So you don't
want a guy who's like controlling aircraft as his third job. Yes, that's
yeah, that's not ideal. Yeah, Jackson, thank you very much.
Did you ever work with the sift, C TACH or CAG and SF?
What were your thoughts? So? How often do you see? Guy?
See you? Guys want to go either route? So, I mean I
heard TAG, but what was the other one? The Sift? But I
think they got rid of the Sift, didn't they? Oh Krif is it
christ now? Yeah? Krif? I'm sure they're talking about Krift. So
the Krift is in Okanawa. Yeah, so they got rid of the crift,
right, They don't call them the cripts anymore, but CCO is still
the crypt. They're still doing the same functions. So I was looking at
going to SCO, but uh SCO's mission said didn't really lend to combat really
at all. So a lot of guys have sort of gone away from COO
to the line odas. For example, on my last ODA two or three
guys that were from the Crift originally, which was great for me because I've
been trained by the Krift guys for so long in my career and CQUB and
stuff like that, which they are absolutely insanely good at at. I mean
that is when you talk about CQUB and stuff like that in the CRYPT and
Delta, those guys that's the that's the ultimate level, highest level in the
world, both those organizations. So yeah, I worked with a ton of
Krift guys because I had him on my team, which has been great for
me because I've stolen so much of what I know from those guys. And
then for Delta, Yeah, I worked with quite a few Delta guys on
different types of things. So on that twenty eighteen trip, we had a
contracted advisor that was a twenty year tag Sartain major who was one of the
most I'm not going to give any names, but he's one of the most
awarded soldiers in American history, and he was with us and out on every
operation. So working with him was was pretty wild on a one just the
stories, but just that level of professionalism. You know, there's levels of
professionalism even in the soft world. You have stuck forces very high, and
then you get to Delta Force and it's just insanely, insanely professional. And
then also I did a not an operation, but a training event with GAGS
Surveillance Unit a few years ago, and that was really cool. I was
basically I played a North Korean security guard, so there guys could surveil US
through I'm not gonna say areas or anything like that because you know it's sensitive,
but I got to be a part of watching them do that side of
things, which was which was pretty awesome. Those guys are you know,
I've got quite a few close friends and old teammates who are over in TAG
now, so you know, I get a little bit of knowledge here and
there about what they're doing. But yeah, definitely, those guys are incredible
for sure. Fantastic idea. If there's one thing you could take away from
the US Army Special Forces or oh, if there's one thing you could add
or take away from SF. What would it be, oh, add or
takeaway? So it already happened for takeaway, which was when s VAB was
created. Right, So the SVAB for those who don't know, sort of
came in and took the place of training the host nation armies regular army forces,
which Special Forces was dealing with for a long time, which just became
such a huge pain for us in trying to deal with that and then also
running operations. So I actually do like that that happened something I could that
we could add to Special Forces. Oh so I think, uh, you
know, making s F a Tier one unit so that we had the funding
that you know, things like Ranger Battalion have. I think it's you know,
kind of bs that you know, Ranger Battalion and uh no, knock
on Ranger Battalion, Like those guys are awesome. I mean a third of
the SF guys I know are from Ranger of Battalion. But you know,
it's kind of kind of pisses us off that, you know, there's the
eighteen year old Ranger guys running around that are Tier one and and you know,
forty year old SF guy with ten years experience in them and Tier two
operator. But yeah, well has it changed because Rangers used to be Tier
two and then stuff I thought was tier three? Did that? Did that
change? Yeah, so that's change. So so Rangers of tier as far
as it used to be Rangers of Tier one because they do a lot of
stuff with GAG and then SF is Tier two. Okay, now that that
could have changed recently or whatnot, but from the last time I remember that.
I mean, I'm just like going back to like when I was in
which eight years ago. So uh so, yeah, definitely, because I
do remember because it was we were in Afghanistan. It was always TAG and
Ranger Battalion that we're getting one sixtieth and so that was why, right,
So you and you guys got the h the tail landing, the rotor strikes.
Yeah, well, I mean we got the one sixtieth sometimes, but
then you would also get the Hawaiian National Guard, uh you know, air
air aircraft sometimes for like high profile missions, which just seemed kind of wild.
But yeah, and then Scott thanks any tips for a twenty nine year
old trying to actually learn a second language for the first time. Japanese Man
Japanese. Yeah, so foreign language is rough. Chinese was really really rough.
I would say you'd have to really just get immersed in it. You
know, we in language school you do six months straight at eight hours a
day with an instructor who was from that country, and you pretty much exclusively
speak it. The best way of seeing guys learn it is through what's called
a let or they actually go live in you know, if your Japanese,
you actually go live in a in Japan with a Japanese family, and guys
can learn it way faster that way. But you don't have access to that.
Then, however, you can immerse yourself into it, the better you
know it's foreign language isn't really there's no secret to it. I think it's
just the more you speak it and the more you immerse yourself in it,
the faster you're gonna pick it up. For sure. Yeah. And when
you consider that any five year old in any country can speak their language,
like for sure, it points to what you're saying, is that it's immersion.
Yeah, it is that repetition of yeah for sure. So everybody check
out Nate at Firearm or Valhalla Firearms Training on on YouTube, like subscribe right
now, and also Valhalla Firearms Training on Instagram. What were you saying?
D huh oh, it's in the description. Uh yeah, send them down
in the description. But also if you're listening on the podcast, check them
out, subscribe, follow, join Nate. Thank you very much. Yeah,
this was fun for sure. I appreciate it. Yeah. So I
uh, I like, uh, you know, it's my second second podcast
I've done, and it's definitely you know, so much of this stuff I
haven't really talked about before other than you know, with my teammates. So
it's kind of therapeutic in a way. I think. Yeah, to uh
sit down with you know, another soft guy like you and who understands and
and have a free, you know, sort of safe space to talk about
the same and stuff. So yeah, definitely cool experience. I appreciate it.
We appreciate you, man, like we we appreciate you coming on.
We you know, like our our goal here is just recorded history on the
personal level, and you know, and they're they're things like if we could
go back and listen to podcasts with the guys who were on Omaha Beach or
you know, you know, like you know, it's amazing and and we
have a unique way of capturing history these days that they didn't have in the
past, where you know, hopefully one of these days, you know,
your kids, your grandkids, you know, your great grand control be able
to find this and see who you were. Yeah, and you know that's
that's a cool you put it, and you know you think about it.
You know all this stuff. You know, it's not just me, It's
just what my oba has done. It all guys have done, you know.
I mean, that's something like this that's going to disappear some day and
nobody but us is going to know. And you're right, I think,
you know, as as I've gotten older and gotten away from it and just
all the things I know, so many guys that I've worked with have done
to to not let the American public know what our soft operators have done over
the last twenty years. I think is a is a grave injustice to not
only us, but also to the American people. I think they need to
know sort of the heroism and the things that they have no idea we're happening.
Oh absolutely, And I would I would go so far to say not
even not not even just a soft operator. It's like, you know,
like anybody who were was involved in in the conflicts, anybody who was,
you know, like, there are so much history there from yeah, you
know, you know you you mentioned that, and you're absolutely right, I
shouldn't say just soft operators. For example, I was watching Cody Alfred's podcast
with Sean Ryan talking about Fallujah, and you know, I've got buddies that
were in Fallujah. They haven't really talked to me about the stories, but
listening to his story about that is absolutely even for me. It was like,
God, I was, I was in some heinous stuff, but I
cannot even imagine being in that, which which is while I actually know that
he talked about adults force operator that killed Judah, saying in his podcast,
actually, uh, you know we know the guy yeah talking about but but
yeah, you know, you you listen to that and you're like, this
is a nineteen year old kid that that type of thing that I couldn't I
couldn't even fathom as a you know, at my level of what that was
like you know, insane. Yeah, I mean, you know, we
meant you mentioned Guccia earlier, and Soft had a very Gucci war in these
wars, and it's not that you know, soft and like undergo stuff.
But there were there were like people out at these fobs. You know,
conventional that we're out there for twelve fourteen months, like hooking and jab every
single day without the AC one thirty, without the eight tens, you know,
with without all that stuff. You know. And you know, it's
like I said, I've talked about this before, but like some of the
people have the most respect for the Arkansas National Guards, like they're there,
I don't know their cav or Bradley like whatever. Like those guys were hooking
and jabing all day long in Iraq. Yeah, and you know, you
you bring up a great point. And and and when I mentioned earlier talking
to you know, about my dad and some of those guys in their stories,
you know, that's sort of the realization for me of like, yeah,
I was in nasty firefights and things like that, but you know,
I flew back to the fob and went back and called my wife and had
chao. Yeah after that, you know what I mean. So when you
talk about, uh, sort of the level of comfort and the back half
for the last ten years of the war when I fought, you know,
I'm not naive to think that I was you know, in any of the
nastiest stuff compared to what you're talking about there for sure, or fire wars.
Yeah, I definitely. I definitely got to do the you know,
the Gucci side of where we flew in and we had the advantage. Well
me too, Yeah, Jack, we had we had all the air apps.
You got the air stacked again. We got nasty situations and we got
fucked up in a lot of ways. But you know, there's which you
can't really compare those, you can't come. I try not to compare myself
to anyone else. I think you can't. You can't do that because I
think we're all all of us that have been warfighters and we've all gone through
different absolutely absolutely, but there's still that Yeah, there's still that common that
common thread that binds us all together that have been through that type of thing
as well. Absolutely absolutely, Well, we deeply, deeply appreciate you.
We uh thanks for spending a Friday night with us. Yeah, everybody,
check out Valhalla of Firearms Training, check out our sponsors, AARP, Veteran
Report and Vitamin One, and we will see you. Is it next Friday?
D Monday got injured? Yeah, Monday the fourteenth, I think we
have Aaron Haleen. He's a former EOD got injured. Now he runs ultra
marathons. I don't know how anybody in EOD hasn't like how there's somebody in
EOD that hasn't been injured. It's like the most stressful job, I think
in the military. But so we'll see you guys Monday. Jack will be
back hopefully, and Nate we will see you soon. Man, all right,
you can hang out for a second. We'll say goodbye to everybody else.
Thanks everybody,