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And it hits me, Oh my
gosh, this is at triangle. You

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know, there's explanation for everything that
occurred in the randallsham Pars incident. It

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doesn't involve aliens at all. It
was completely silent. It comes right over

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our heads. Classic fly. He's
also really standing into clearing. He turned

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over to my father and held his
hand, and he looked in his eyes

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and said, we're not alone.
Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show.

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During the show, feel free to
participate live in our chat room,

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00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:38,000
and don't forget to like us on
our very active Facebook page. Hello and

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welcome to the show. I'm Martin
Willisher, host and I'm really excited about

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my guest tonight. A lot of
people are too. I've got some email.

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It's actually gonna be all a handrow. He's going to be my guests,

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and we're changing things up a little
bit. Jordan Bonaparte from the nighttime

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podcast up in Canada, Beautiful Podcast. We'll talk a little bit about that,

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but he's filling in for the news, So I'm treating Alajandro like he's

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any other guests on the show.
He's going to have his own spot as

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a guest and News with Jordan.
I want to thank everyone for supporting the

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show. We are live. You
can watch the full shows live always on

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YouTube, and we are also playing
over at the Dark Matter Digital Network every

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Thursday night over there. That's for
the full show. And like I said,

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I want to thank everyone that supports
the show. We absolutely could not

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do it without you, and we
do appreciate every listener, but the support

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really helps us carry on. And
I think that's enough for me and I

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shall welcome our guest, Jordan.
Welcome to the show, guest of honor.

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Big shoes to fill, but I'm
happy to be here. Yeah,

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yeah, Hey. First of all, thank you for filling in kind of

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short notice and problem. Also,
like I said, I want to say

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about your show, your podcast.
I started listening to it recently. I

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listened to it a little bit here
and there, but the quality of that

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show is just I don't know how
much time you spend in the editing room,

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but it's just a beautiful show and
thank you doing a really nice job.

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It's very interesting and it's not just
UFOs, it's other other really fascinating

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topics as well. So anyway,
welcome, and do you want to you

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sent me an email. I think
or let's see, I think maybe I

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saw on a Facebook you're going to
be on a radio show as well.

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Well. What it is is,
my podcast got picked up by a company

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called Chorus, which is a major
Canadian television and radio conglomerate. I guess

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they own a lot of major TV
stations and radio stations. They picked up

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my podcast to air. It's syndicated
nationally now, so it's aired on radio

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across Canada on Sunday nights and Saturday
nights and most made your Cities and it's

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kind of I don't know if many
other if it's anything any similar arrangement has

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happened with many other podcasts. But
they're doing also they're using my podcast kind

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of in collaboration with some of the
TV shows that they air. So,

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for example, Chorus, who's taken
over my podcasts. They own the History

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Channel, which is a big Canadian
station. I don't know if he's have

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it in the States, but they
have, like they're doing the Project Blue

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Book as that TV show, and
they do Yeah, and they do Curse

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of Oak Island, which is a
major show here. So they're kind of

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looking at ways to work on things
basically with my show. In those shows

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co promoting through the podcast and television, so it's it's gonna be cool.

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I don't I don't really know what's
going to happen with it yet, but

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it's been going on for about a
month or two and I don't know.

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It's gonna be interesting. Great,
great, So did you get any news

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together for us? I have a
few things, and I tried to kind

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of stick with Canadian news, but
sadly they're not a lot happens in ufology

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in Canada. It seems the biggest
thing recently was an article. And I

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found this interesting because although the UFO
event wasn't that spectacular, the news article

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was mainly about the witnesses trouble reporting
it and getting someone to take them seriously.

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It happened in a small town called
Sturgeon. It's in Prince Edward Island,

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which is one of the smallest provinces
in Canada. I'll just reach you

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a brief excerpt from the news article. Basically, it says the witness his

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name is Bruce, he knows the
skies in his area. He's seen a

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lot of satellites in the sky near
his home. But this particular object was

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not like any he'd seen before.
Initially, his thought was that it was

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a plane that he was looking at
in the night sky, as the object

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had flashing lights, But when it
stopped dead in the sky and then shot

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in a ninety degree angle towards his
home and stopped again, he knew it

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was something special. He watched it
in the sky kind of moving around sporadically

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like that for I think it was
about four or five minutes until ultimately it

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shot off basically into the night sky
in the direction of Nova Scotia. Ryan

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coincidentally, so he thought it was
strange and something special. The next day

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he had asked a few people basically
at the coffee shop, did you see

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the weird thing in the sky last
night? And sure enough a few people

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in his town did. He then, knowing it was something unique and special

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and that he wasn't the only one
who saw it, he decided to report

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it. And that's kind of where
the news article really got interesting. He

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talked about contacting initially the Royal Canadian
Air Force, they didn't take up seriously.

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Next called Air Canada, which is
a major airline, They hung up

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on him. He called nav Canada
also hung up on him, called the

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RCMP and they told him it wasn't
something that they deal with, So basically

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he was left with no I guess
mainstream avenue to report it. In the

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article, he then went on to
describe getting hooked up with Chris Ratkowski,

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who's probably been on both of your
shows or he runs Uphology Research, which

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is a major Canadian civilian UFO investigation
organization. Ended up, this witness found

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a safe place with Chris and his
crew and they took his information and I

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believe they're investigating. But really,
what I found interesting about that article was

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it just shows how much trouble,
like so many of us see these things,

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But if you want to report it
to someone other than basically a fringe

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group like mouf on or whatnot,
you really don't have very many avenues.

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You know, some people wouldn't call
them a fringe group, But I understand

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what you mean, you know,
fringe in in the normal world, I

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would I would, you know,
I would say definitely as far as that

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goes. But yeah, I mean
I when I had my sighting in two

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thousand and six, I had no
idea how to report. I never even

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looked online. That never even occurred
to me, and I made phone calls,

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so I understand that, but people
hanging up on him, that's pretty

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discouraging. Yeah, And I don't
mean fringe disrespectfully, but I'm just thinking

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saying, like if you talk about
like, let's say, if you see

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my father who is a steel worker
from small town Nova, Scotia, and

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he sees it could be an alien
spaceship that lands and they get out and

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attack him, He's never going to
know what moufund is or how to contact

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them. He'll probably call the police
and Air Canada I call it the police,

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right, yeah, in fact,
and they probably hang up on my

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dad. So I guess we're in
the know. So we're fortunate to know

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about these different groups and have an
avenue to go, but we're far from

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the average person in terms of the
you know, the UFO phenomenon. The

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average person who sees something is not
going to have a clue where to go.

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And I thought this article. What
I liked about it was it kind

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of in a mainstream news source,
which is the province's largest paper. It

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kind of tells the story of what
happens with a you know, an average

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person when they see something. Yeah. Yeah, and well it's amazing because

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most people would get hung up on
once, you know, like I did.

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Basically that was as far as I
went, you know, I mean

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I got I actually hung up on
the dispatcher because they put me on hold

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for twenty twenty minutes. Oh but
you know, I mean I I just

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was discouraged. And it's amazing this
guy just kept going and trying different avenues,

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yeah, and eventually found somewhere.
So yeah, good for him.

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But that was one that's probably the
most recent piece of Canadian news. But

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I think the big the big piece
of news actually, I think is coming

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out of the US. I don't
want to pronounce it it's but I'm gonna

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try. It's the Amami. Oh
yeah, you're talking about the asteroid that

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the the that's a Hawaiian name.
Uh huh okay, Yeah, well,

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Alejandro, I think could nail that
a lot better than I could. I

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call it the O period asteroid.
Yeah, And I've just even today,

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when I woke up this morning,
I had already had two or three people

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had messaged me on Twitter and stuff
setting me the article about Yeah, the

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Harvard researchers, who are who basically
have a paper being published I think in

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about a week's time. They're basically
pleading a case that this could possibly be

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intelligently controlled, this particular asteroid,
and I think they're basing that on they

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were watching or measuring its speed in
velocity and distance as it passed by the

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sun, and it appeared to either
change course or gain speed, And I

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guess the Harvard students paper is just
going to plead the case that it could

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potentially be of intelligent design. Yeah, because of the shape of it forty

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meters by I think it's something like
forty meters by four hundred meters and uh,

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you know, sort of like a
stick in a way. And I

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think they said it might be read, which is interesting as well. But

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also, yes, just traveling at
sixty thousand miles an hour and not the

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typical forty that you know that these
objects usually travel. And I'm maybe off

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a little bit on speed, but
it's something like that. Yeah, it's

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it's definitely interesting and it's cool to
see some you know, some university students

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who are doing some real work basically
having an open enough mind to consider it.

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I'll be interested to read their paper. Yeah, that's right. I

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think in a way, I think, you know, the changing events of

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December sixteenth last year with the New
York Times article has kind of opened the

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door for letting people be a little
more comfortable and making this type of speculation.

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And it is just a theory,
it's just another theory. Yeah,

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but it's it's still even if it's
just a theory and it proved, and

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even if it proves to be false, it's still interesting to go down that

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road. Yeah, especially in an
academic paper with you know, a scientific

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the scientific techniques. You know,
I think I find it cool. But

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it's I heard it described as cigar
shape, which I like. I always

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enjoy people talking about a cigar shaped
UFO. Yeah. And uh, and

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it has portholes. No, I
didn't hear. Yeah, I'm starting the

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rumor. But anyway, Hey,
Jordan, thank you so much. And

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why don't you give out your website
how people can find you. Yeah,

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my show's Nighttime Podcast. You can
just find me on Nighttime podcast dot com.

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And I investigate Canadian mysteries, true
crime and strange stories. And I've

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had Martin and Alejandro on an episode
I did about a UFO sighting in Clarenville,

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Newfoundland. Yeah, that's happy to
have us both. Yeah, great,

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thanks for having me, Martin.
I'm looking forward to listening to unla

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andro talk. All Right. Hey, thanks a lot, my pleasure anytime.

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Have a great night, all right, you two? All right?

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All right, everyone. So our
guest needs no introduction, mostly because he's

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on almost every single show I app
but anyway, he is a radio host,

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a coach for Open Minds Radio.
He's an editor for a writer for

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Open Minds Magazine as well as deniv
Geek. We'll talk a little bit about

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that, because that's he's getting a
lot of traction over there. He was

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a spokes person for the Mute for
a moufon and a director of public education,

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on and on and on. And
he's doing a great show too on

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Thursday nights, a live show.
We'll talk a little bit about that,

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but I'm going to be asking him, hopefully some interesting questions and and he's

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to night. He's got this professional
suite he's working on. I just have

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to do a little bit of adjusting
on that. And Alejandro, welcome to

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the show. Yeah, I'm just
finishing something up, so if you can

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give me like a five fifteen minute
problem Youah, no problem, just kidding.

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Yeah, thanks that aside for now. Yeah, thanks for thanks for

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being on the show. My pleasure, thanks for having me. And this

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is you know, I had someone
slated for tonight. I had Ray Stanford

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slated a few weeks ago. And
then he goes, oh my god,

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he goes, it's election night,
midterm election night. So yeah, so

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I asked you, and you're graceful
enough. But of course I gave you

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over a week's notice. But you
were great, you know, to be

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honest. And I don't know,
I'm not even getting to talk about but

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I'm sure it will still upset people
because whenever you say the word in anything

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about politics. But yeah, I'm
kind of like my dad. My dad

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is a big Denver broncos van,
but he has a hard time watching the

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games because he gets so worked up. And that's kind of how I feel

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about the election. Yeah, I
don't want to watch. I'm gonna check

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in here and there because I don't
want to get too worked up. Karen.

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Of course my lady friend is getting
all worked up. Yeah, yeah,

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well, yeah, I totally understand
that. I think I told you

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I lived in Colorado, lived in
a Boulder Area, Long Long Area.

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And I remember I had a friend
that was so into the Broncos. He

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bought an orange pickup truck. He
had everything orange. He was just crazy.

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00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:50,200
He made sure he had a golden
retriever because it was orange. But

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no, wow, yeah, I'm
gonna tell a quick little election joke.

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Okay, yeah, I don't think
I've ever told a joke on my show,

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so really so I don't. I
can't even remember doing that. So

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anyway, this guy was out canvassing, a politician who was out canvassing knocking

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00:14:07,879 --> 00:14:11,039
door to door trying to get some
votes, um the other day. And

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00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,960
he knocks on this door and this
kid answers, Well, the kid,

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00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,240
uh you know. The guy opens
the door and the kid answers, and

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00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,360
he's like shocked and stepped back because
the kids wearing his sister's brow in his

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00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,879
head, uh, lipstick smeared all
over his face. He's he's drinking a

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martini. He's about eight years old, drinking a martini and smoking a cigar.

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And the guy, oh my god, oh my god. He goes

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out, hey, are your parents
home? And the kid says, what

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the frick do you think? You
don't get it are your parents home?

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What the heck do you think?
So they're not home? Of course,

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I thought it was a funny joke. I can't believe do I have any

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canned laugher a laughter anywhere. I
think what's hilarious about that joke is that

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you find it funny to meet makes
it very funny. Oh good, good,

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I'm glad to hear that. Well, hey, uh Bill, our

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engineer uh of KGr A radio.
At least he laughed, he said,

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yeah, hell, but I think
he's laughing as laughing with us. Yeah,

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of all times. I mention a
couple of games about what Jordan said.

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Okay, sure, yeah. I
agree with Jordan first that I think

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that it's important that you know,
move on. I think it's fringe,

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and this topic is fringe, and
I just always feel that it's important we

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remember that because otherwise we make missteps, and then we also forget to kind

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of thoroughly kind of explain the phenomenal
or what we find, like literally and

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and maybe fus trading for some we
have to justify our interest in this phenomena

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all the time because it is fringe. But the advantage of doing that is

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that you're educating the people that you're
talking to who do see it as fringe,

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And I think that's it's just important
for me to always remember that.

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So I don't, you know,
because we get to be uf a weirdo.

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So when we forget that and we're
talking about all this UFO stuff like

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it's normal, and people are like, oh, you know, and we

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got to remember well to make sure
and we got to educate. And that's

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what it's all about, really is
when people kind of roll their eyes are

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like, oh my gosh, the
UFO stuff, I think it's just education.

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For instance, my girlfriend's father,
he was a colonel retired, a

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colonel in the Air Force, and
oh my gosh, of course he was

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not excited about you know what I
do. And but over time it's changed

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because he's learned a lot more and
at least now he recognizes that there is

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a credible aspect and there are there's
a community if people interested in the more

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substantial information. Um. The other
thing is I looked it up because it

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is a great story, but it's
oh muamua is how you say thanks?

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Thanks? Hey? Someone in the
chat room still waiting for my punchline.

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Oh I know, so was I
I cannot sympathize. I love that joke.

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But anyway, that's okay, So, uh, listen, one thing

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I don't think you well. First
of all, before I go onto that,

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I want to say, I agree
with you, and the one thing

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I don't um I agree with you
sort of okay, But what is a

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little bit that I would say they're
not fringe is that when someone wants to

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basically report something unidentified, that part
of it, you know, it doesn't

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say that it's from you know,
another planet or something like that. So

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I think there needs to be something
out there where people can report something unidentified

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also in that aspect. Yeah,
yeah, and you know, that would

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go a long way to making it
not ringe. And you know, I

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think that we've been saying this for
a long time, is that it's irresponsible

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of our government not to have an
outlet like that. I mean, it's

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ridiculous. I talked about one of
the first cases that I investigated when I

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was a build investigator was near my
home, and it was this guy just

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recently back from I RACK and he
was a security He was a young guy

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and working security at a bank kind
of a campus. Because they had several

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buildings. So he was walking in
between buildings and he saw this object in

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the air above one of the mountains. I can't remember. It's like the

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big I can't believe if I forgot
this in Denver. It's like the big

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mountain with all the antennas on it, and someone a big landmark there in

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the city west of town Lookout Mountain. I think it's called so And he

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thought it was really strange, and
he watched it and he was like very

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hypersensitive to recognizing things that are odd
in reporting them because he was just in

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a battle situation, you know,
a war zone. And he did his

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rams, came back outside and it
was still there, and he noticed how

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close it was to commercial airlines,
that they were on the same flight path

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there. So he called a lot
of different places. He called the FAA,

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he called the airport, he called
the news, and it was finally

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maybe the news, I think it
was that told him, hey, you

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should try this group called Moufon,
which is surprising that you know, anybody

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would even think of that. So
then he called Moufon and made his report.

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We were the only ones to to
take it seriously. But that's a

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great example. This is someone who's
trained to look for something that could pose

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a threat in our airspace and he
sees something, um, you know,

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near commercial airlines and immediately raises a
red flag and he thinks I have to

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report this, and no one wanted
to listen, and that is just ridiculous.

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I called the FAA on that case
and they said, oh, we

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don't do that, call Bigelow or
or New Fork, and of course I'm

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like, well, I'm not reporting
this. I'm trying to find out if

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you had any other reports. And
they did check their records, said they

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didn't see anything. But it's it's
just ridiculous that they wouldn't be concerned about,

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you know, some object apparent aircraft
in their airspace. That's um,

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you know, that's precisely what I
said too. Though. When I called

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the police department in in uh Carmel
or was it Monterey one of those places?

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Was um, I asked, has
anybody else reported this? You know,

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has anybody else seen this? Because
that's you know, I was kind

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of curious if any right, And
also I think I told you about I

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had an amazing fireball sighting was just
unbelievable from the hot tub. Yep,

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good memory, both of them are
not actually, But anyway, I called,

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uh, you know P's Air Force
base back then, which is Oilver,

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you know, near the Betty and
Barney Hill work, you know all

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that in that area. Anyway,
they they said, you know, they

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don't take any type of reports like
that, and I didn't know who to

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call. I just didn't know it. Yeah, so yeah, and I

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think that's the issue, and I
think that you know, there's a lot

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made. In fact, there was
even a recent article that and I can't

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remember who wrote it, and it
was about a hit again, you know,

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this government UFO program, and they
were like, why was the government

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investigating UFOs even though sightings are going
down? And actually it was a great

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article because it was talking about,
well, there's other reasons that they would

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look into it, and so it
was very positive. And this was a

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mainstream publication. But in my opinion, having looked at these numbers over the

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years, it's not necessarily a factor
of sightings going down. It's a factor

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of mof ON and the other organization
that receives sightings quite a bit new Fork,

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not people not knowing they're there.
There was a spike in about the

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twenty fifteen sixteen period because of the
television Hanger One, which was about mof

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On and I noticed this in there, I know, because it's about well,

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there was also a spike in in
membership for mouf On, but that

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has decreased as well along with the
sighting reports as Hanger One has been off

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the air and people forget that they
even exist. So it's more a case

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of awareness then necessarily, you know, the amount of a potential UFOs decreasing,

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at least we cannot definitively say there
is a decrease in potential UFOs in

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my opinion, has since that since
the article we were talking, you know,

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00:23:22,519 --> 00:23:27,680
during the news segment there about the
Pentagon New York Times article. Do

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00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:33,119
you have any idea if anything has
gone up since then as far as reporting,

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so has that made any type of
difference? You know what? That

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is a really good question. But
looking at the numbers, and I think

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Cheryl Costa would be a great person
to ask you, right for the Syracuse

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00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,519
New Times, and it's written a
book about signing reports. But you know,

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00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,720
as the end of the year comes
to a close, I'll be doing

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00:23:53,759 --> 00:24:00,680
another article where what I'll do is
I grab at least a high end stats

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to take a look at the monthly
numbers and where they are and that sort

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of thing, at least at casually
looking at the numbers. I don't see

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a big change. Also from reading
Cheryl's articles every week, and I haven't

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seen it her mention or change or
seen it when she shows graphs and numbers,

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So I don't think there has been
a change. And that would make

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sense in that the article did not
mention Mouffon or new Fork, so it

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didn't say, hey, people,
if you want to report, here's where

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to report. What would be interesting, though, is whether or not the

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New York Times got an increase in
citing reports. I would imagine they would

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have, and or if the Pentagon
or you know, the DoD I if

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or Air Force received more reports.
If they did, they would probably just

332
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turn people away unfortunately. But we
do have an example the Chicago Tribune when

333
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they wrote about the O'Hare airport situation
in two thousand and eight, where you

334
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:11,359
know, a disc shaped object was
seen over one of the concourses there at

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00:25:11,559 --> 00:25:18,799
Chicago Hare Airport and it was seen
by United Personnel, pilots and other people,

336
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,039
and the witnesses reported they sing,
shot straight up through the sky and

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00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:26,599
poked a hole in the clouds.
Even that stayed for a little while before

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the whole closed. Well, the
Chicago Troubune wrote about this, and the

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00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,359
author of that article was all over
the place, And there's even this local

340
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:45,680
Chicago news report that he did where
the video somehow got released before they went

341
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,200
on the air and during while they
were on the air. But they're kind

342
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,160
of cross chat before they go on
the air, and they're talking about just

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00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,480
how big the story was. It
was the biggest story that he had the

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00:25:56,599 --> 00:26:00,400
paper I'd ever had, and they
were getting flooded with reports. He said

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00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:06,200
that there are a lot of dubious
reports from people say they're talking to aliens,

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00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,440
and I think the term he said
is those went into my circular file.

347
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But a lot of them were really
credible, and you know, some

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00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:18,079
of those other reports could have been
credible as well, if he but I

349
00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:21,519
could see because it's fringe, you
know, he doesn't want to look at

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00:26:21,599 --> 00:26:26,720
that. But they were inundated with
UFO reports supposedly, so it's a good

351
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,039
point that that could be that could
have happened. Yeah, I'm going to

352
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:36,440
continue this conversation we're at the break
right now. We're so I will get

353
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,240
back to that as soon as we
come back, because I have a question

354
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:45,119
in regards to that. So this
is Martin Willis, my guest is Alijandro

355
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,319
Rojas, and we're going to be
taking a break. Stay with us.

356
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,799
Clear three minutes, gentlemen, three
minutes. Okay, thank you? All

357
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,160
right, So this part's still on
YouTube. Do we talk about other stuff?

358
00:26:56,319 --> 00:27:00,480
Yeah? So yes, can we
say like bad words and stuff?

359
00:27:02,319 --> 00:27:06,480
I haven't. I haven't figured that
out. I don't know. I don't

360
00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:10,279
really I have. I'm not really
much of a cusser. Anyway. Well,

361
00:27:10,319 --> 00:27:11,359
I was going to ask you to
tell a joke because I'm gonna put

362
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,720
you in the hust Oh yeah,
Oh my gosh, tell a joke.

363
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,359
I'm so terrible. Okay, I've
got a joke that's kind of long.

364
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,680
Well we got three minutes, man, so okay, I think I could

365
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,200
get it. This is the only
joke I ever remember, Captain Bravo.

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00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,599
I don't know if you've heard this
one. So there's this Captain Bravo,

367
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,200
and you know this is during pirate
times way back, I don't know,

368
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:37,240
fourteen hundred and fifteen hundreds and he's
the captain of the ship, will say

369
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:41,559
an English ship or something, you
know, and they're sailing, yeah,

370
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,400
the hard type of thing, and
they see pirates. So down from the

371
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:48,680
crow's nest you hear Captain Bravo,
Captain Bravo, there's a pirate ship on

372
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,640
the horizon. Captain Brabo says,
bring me my red shirt. So they

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00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,640
bring him a red shirt. They
take on these pirates and they take him.

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Everybody's like, yeay, yay,
Captain Bravo. Well few days pass

375
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,759
and down from the crow's nest comes
Captain Bravo. Captain Bravo, three pirate

376
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,680
ships on the horizon. Captain Bravo
says, first mate, grab me my

377
00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:14,160
red shirt. And they take on
the pirates and they actually win, and

378
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,240
everybody's like, oh yeah, Captain
Bravo, you're amazing. And they tell

379
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:21,400
him why do you call for a
red shirt every time before we go into

380
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,519
battle? And he says, well, you know, when I get hurt

381
00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:26,880
and I'm bleeding, you don't notice
because it's a red shirt, and you

382
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,599
think I'm invincible, and that makes
you fight even harder. And they're like,

383
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,200
whoa Captain Bravo, So smart?
So they're like, hey, Captain

384
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:41,319
Bravo. So a few days pass
and down from the crow's nest they yelled,

385
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,640
Captain Bravo, Captain Bravo. Five
pirate ships on the horizon. So

386
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:52,200
Captain Bravo yells, first mate,
grab me my brown pants. Okay,

387
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:53,799
all right, I'm trying not to
laugh. I was trying not to laugh,

388
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:59,480
but you couldn't do it. Yeah, yep, Bill, even we

389
00:28:59,519 --> 00:29:03,039
even got laugh from the peanut gallery. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah,

390
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:07,839
it's my delivery. It must be
my delivery and jokes. That's that's that's

391
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,000
yeah. I don't know how that
one could be delivered. I could see

392
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,680
that one being in a cartoon.
Yeah. Well it's like kind of curing

393
00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:18,039
things in your head, you know, yeah, that type of thing.

394
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,759
It was a few break. Yeah, the next break I'm going to we're

395
00:29:21,759 --> 00:29:26,960
going to be a fielding questions from
the chat room. So anyone that's in

396
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:30,160
YouTube right now, I don't have
a chance to go over to KGRA A

397
00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:34,200
radio, but anyone that's in YouTube
can put a question in the chat room

398
00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:37,359
during our next break, and then
of course we take we're going to take

399
00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:42,119
calls after that as well. Sounds
good, all right, Welcome back.

400
00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:48,000
This is Martin Willis. My guest
is Alejandro Rojas, and this is a

401
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:52,799
podcast UFO, So Alejandro. Before
the break, we were talking about um

402
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,519
O'Hare and the report of getting all
the reports um. I did have a

403
00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:03,960
conversation via email with one other with
the reporter involved at the New York Times.

404
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,000
I can't remember her name. She
was one of the three that wrote

405
00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:14,400
that. Not Leslie, not oh, not Leslie. Okay, now the

406
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:18,839
New York Times in house reporter.
I believe she can't remember her name,

407
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:26,119
but she does some reporting on the
Pentagon work. I believe that's that's what

408
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,680
her Her gig is at the New
York Times. I think it's Barbara something.

409
00:30:29,759 --> 00:30:33,680
But anyway, if it did Helene
Cooper, Boy did I ever get

410
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,039
that wrong? It doesn't sound like
Barbara anyway. I did have I have

411
00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:42,079
an email exchange with her, and
I think I'm going to revisit and send

412
00:30:42,079 --> 00:30:45,400
her an email and ask her what
has happened as far as reports. I

413
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:52,359
bet people are reported m And you
know what would be interesting too, well,

414
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,559
an interview with her would be really
interesting. She wouldn't. I did

415
00:30:56,599 --> 00:31:00,799
try, because the end of question
was, you know, I would love

416
00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:04,359
to know is what she thought of
the phenomena prior to the article and what

417
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:11,519
she thinks now, and also you
know what she feels about the information.

418
00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:17,000
So, for instance, what's interesting
about the New York Times article is that

419
00:31:17,119 --> 00:31:23,400
you have the videos and you have
references to documents that two of the Stars

420
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,799
has also referenced, and Louise Elizondo, who used to work for the program,

421
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:34,119
also has referenced. However, so
everybody assumed that to the Stars gave

422
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,200
the New York Times sees all of
this material, but that's not true.

423
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:45,880
According to Leslie Kane, they actually
had their own anonymous source from within the

424
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,880
Department of Defense that they received a
lot of that material from. So there

425
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:55,559
was a lot of material that they
vetted. So they saw a lot of

426
00:31:55,599 --> 00:31:57,720
stuff. In fact, they saw
a lot more stuff. For instance,

427
00:31:57,799 --> 00:32:01,240
the New York Times did not release
those documents. They still have them.

428
00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:06,920
Um, yes, so she saw
more stuff than they even were able to

429
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,920
release that. So she saw a
lot of very credible information. That's true,

430
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,359
and there there was I did contact
her and asked her if I could

431
00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:20,440
possibly interview her, and she said, you know, she referred me to

432
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:23,920
Leslie and you know. Um and
uh, I already said no, I've

433
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,559
talked to Leslie a number of times
and would love to talk to you.

434
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,720
But anyway, Um, she was
interviewed. They have the New York Times

435
00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:37,000
Daily podcast and they did a whole
segment on on that on the UFO story,

436
00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:42,160
which was really really good. Um, it's a great podcast anyway,

437
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,480
but that that was just on that
and mostly with her and um, you

438
00:32:46,519 --> 00:32:51,680
know Lou Alexando was in it.
Um. And it's up on my website.

439
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,720
Actually it's on podcast ufo dot com
for anyone wants to check that out.

440
00:32:54,759 --> 00:33:00,039
It's it's up there, um as
a podcast. Uh. Anyone can

441
00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:04,480
listen to it for free on there. So if the file is still good,

442
00:33:04,519 --> 00:33:08,400
that is so all Jundra. One
of the things I don't think a

443
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:15,200
lot of people have heard, basically
the backstory of you, and that's what

444
00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:17,440
I wanted to. You know,
you and I always talk about UFOs and

445
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:23,039
space and interesting things like that,
but as far as as far as you,

446
00:33:23,039 --> 00:33:28,920
you know what started you. You
mentioned your your your girlfriend's father,

447
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,799
so you had to take some turns, your interests in a journalism and all

448
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:40,200
that what made you decide to take
the path that you did, and how

449
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,839
early on did you have an interest
in this type of topic. I guess

450
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:52,519
I've always had an interest. Um. I like to say that, uh,

451
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,759
you know, living in Colorado,
which I consider the south West,

452
00:33:59,359 --> 00:34:01,759
if you buys Colorado, I don't
know that they always consider themselves not like

453
00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:06,920
Arizona here or New Mexico, where
you know, they really embraced that being

454
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,400
part of the Southwest. But they
are in parts of Colorado where Mexico.

455
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:15,719
In fact, when I was in
college, I was president of the the

456
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,960
Hispanic Association out there, and a
lot of our sayings for those of us

457
00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:23,639
from the area was we didn't cross
the borders. The border crossed us because

458
00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:29,880
our families go back very many generations
to where this area where our families are

459
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,960
from New Mexico and those areas you
know, we're in Mexico, so in

460
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,960
that area it you know, I
think it's really unique, especially and when

461
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:44,039
I was growing up in Denver,
like all of the Mexican Americans were had

462
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:50,119
roots in the Valley San Luis Valley
and New Mexico area. And what's unique

463
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:53,440
about it is it's a it's a
melding of Native American and kind of and

464
00:34:53,800 --> 00:35:01,159
you know, Mexican American, and
so there's a lot of legends in the

465
00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:06,440
area. I always heard about the
legends in San Louise Valley. My grandma

466
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:12,320
had an interesting story about that.
And of course Chris O'Brien is a researcher

467
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,039
who wrote The Mysterious Valley about the
Sant Louise Valley. And so hearing these

468
00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:21,519
stories and kind of both of those
cultures, all of those cultures being open

469
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:27,159
to the paranormal, I was always
interested, and so I kept an eye

470
00:35:27,199 --> 00:35:30,880
on it. When I got into
high school, I got into math and

471
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:38,239
science was was what interested me the
most. Martin's leaving I really poured him

472
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:45,079
with this story, I guess,
but I'm off camera, so so yeah,

473
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:51,159
okay, now it looks great.
But so I got into math and

474
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,639
science, and I guess that's when
I was kind of more of you know,

475
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:01,920
that's when I really adopted the philosophies
behind science, and I guess the

476
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,920
pragmatism in a way, and I
thought, you know, I need to

477
00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:13,760
in a way be honor my ancestry
in in giving the benefit of the doubt,

478
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:20,199
but then also needed to put it
under its paces, put it into

479
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:28,760
in trying to, you know,
be pragmatic about whether or not these phenomena

480
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,280
exists. And I've kind of gone
back and forth, but you know,

481
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:37,360
what I've always felt is that even
if you do take a scientific look at

482
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:43,960
all of this stuff, what you
cannot do is disprove a lot of this

483
00:36:44,159 --> 00:36:51,599
anecdotal information. And science anecdotal information
is what kind of is the impetus to

484
00:36:51,760 --> 00:37:00,079
science. We observe a phenomena,
we theorize what might the phenomena might be.

485
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:07,840
We test those theories, and we
come to conclusions or understandings about you

486
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,960
know, the natural world. And
there are a lot of issues that I

487
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,679
believe are still outstanding. And I
think that's what's fascinating. And especially when

488
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,679
I was, you know, in
journalism, because I did change from wanting

489
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:29,000
to be a rocket scientist to wanting
to be a journalist, and so I

490
00:37:29,079 --> 00:37:34,559
was doing all kinds of journalists stuff
in school and this is now college,

491
00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:38,920
and I saw there was a lot
of stories out there that weren't being shared.

492
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:44,199
And this was the nineties, and
the nineties was kind of a a

493
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:49,920
bad time for UFOs. It was
all the television shows ended with a debunking

494
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,159
where they totally debunked, you know, everything they had just told you.

495
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:59,519
And then it was shows, I
think really UFO Files, which John Greenwald

496
00:38:00,159 --> 00:38:05,679
helped produce some of the seasons there
that stopped doing that and just showing the

497
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,840
information and letting people decide on their
own. But those, I thought,

498
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:15,519
they are all of the television shows. A lot that's out there didn't include

499
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:20,639
some of the more interesting stories that
there are, and there's so many,

500
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,440
so I just kind of had this
compulsion to share these stories and to learn

501
00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:30,239
more. In fact, when I
really when the bug really bit me,

502
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,480
which was probably just after college,
when I was a corporate trainer by that

503
00:38:34,519 --> 00:38:38,079
time, I just, like,
you know, for a period of time,

504
00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:40,800
was like a hermit. I go
home and read books, read books,

505
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:46,239
read books, read books about this
topic and and and then eventually joined

506
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:52,000
move on as an investigator and then
kind of came back to to what is

507
00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:58,519
natural to me, which is sharing
stories and writing about this stuff. So

508
00:38:58,519 --> 00:39:01,039
so yeah, so, and even
with muf ON at that point I became

509
00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:06,519
part So yeah, it's the strangest
thing. I've never seen anything like it.

510
00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:09,199
As all of a sudden, it
just froze there he is, He's

511
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:14,599
back I think he's back. Hello, Hello, do you have any idea

512
00:39:14,639 --> 00:39:19,559
what happened? All? Hundre?
No, you froze. I heard you,

513
00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:22,480
and you're like, oh alajuandro froze, and I could hear you,

514
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:25,039
and so I uh, and then
you froze soon after that, and then

515
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:30,320
it said there was a network problem. So um or you're back. And

516
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:35,159
I don't know because I'm so frazzled. I don't even remember what we were

517
00:39:35,159 --> 00:39:38,039
talking about. So we were talking
about kind of my background and interests in

518
00:39:38,119 --> 00:39:44,320
this stuff. So I'm not sure
if I got through that all before the

519
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,960
freezing. Yeah, I'm not quite
sure. I think you were talking about,

520
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:53,880
you know, journalism and then you
know, things unanswered and bits and

521
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,719
pieces. Yeah, so I guess
I just, um yeah, I just

522
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,880
you know, came back to wanting
to share that credible information and with muff

523
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:12,639
One eventually became their spokesperson and PR
and director of education. This was by

524
00:40:12,679 --> 00:40:20,519
the time actually about the time that
we I was a director when Bigelow approached

525
00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:30,119
mouf On to come up with that
partnership, and which was a an extraordinary

526
00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:37,559
opportunity for mouf On um and uh
and and for this field. But Unfortunately

527
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:40,360
it didn't end up working out.
But little did I know where the money

528
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:49,000
was coming from, right, actually
coming from the government, coming from the

529
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,760
the government as uh, that was
part of and we know this this is

530
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:58,199
confirmed. Well I've discussed it one
on one with George Knapp who's confirmed it.

531
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,360
But I believe one of his articles
has also confirmed that, which makes

532
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,639
sense. I mean, we uh, it was a safe assumption to make

533
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,000
because that was the same time they
were receiving funding. But we did you

534
00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:13,679
know, at least George or somebody
had confirmed that, Yeah, that was

535
00:41:15,159 --> 00:41:20,639
that program was part of the a
tip funding or as APP or you know,

536
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,239
Pentagon funding. Now I had heard, you know, sort of controversial

537
00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:32,239
things about that particular situation as far
as Bigelow being able to um basically review

538
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:39,960
the files. So basically what was
the details of that? So the details

539
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:46,760
and I love to straighten this out
and that because it's unfortunate. I used

540
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,920
to term recently. Oh yeah,
I was bragging about using this term on

541
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,239
my show with you, I think, and that was that in in the

542
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:59,840
UFO field, we tend to be
really bad at eating our own and the

543
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,559
bigger to fish, the more we
feast and certainly Bigelow is a big fish,

544
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:10,159
and people just attacked Bigelow, which
is unfortunate because my experience has been

545
00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:16,440
that him and his organization, and
it's been George's George Knapp's experience. An

546
00:42:16,639 --> 00:42:22,320
investigative journalists there in Las Vegas who's
been close to to Bigelow, wrote the

547
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:28,199
book Hunt for the Skinwalker about their
probably their most famous, you know investigation

548
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,719
that we also found out was funded
by the government for the most part,

549
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:39,920
that really this is a genuine effort
to investigate the phenomena. The terms of

550
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:46,599
the agreement were essentially, can you
still hear me? Oh yeah, okay,

551
00:42:46,639 --> 00:42:50,719
because I got a text from you, but I figured that was probably

552
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,880
that was a while ago, a
while ago. But the terms were essentially

553
00:42:54,920 --> 00:43:00,639
that Bigelow that a star team would
be made that Bigelow would fund and this

554
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,639
was a rapid response team. So
but it was with movef On, So

555
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,039
Bigelow would fund move On to create
this so that there would be transparency and

556
00:43:09,079 --> 00:43:15,400
move On would have control over everything
which they did. This team then was

557
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:20,719
to very quickly respond when something would
occur, which is exactly the sort of

558
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,800
thing move On would like to do. But didn't have the funds or the

559
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:31,760
resources to do so. Bigelow would
then get information from these cases and all

560
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,840
the others, but no sooner than
anyone else. For instance, all of

561
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:45,159
that information was posted online. I
received that information myself. So it's that's

562
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:51,639
how this worked. And then Bigelow
funded investigation and funded being able to analyze

563
00:43:51,639 --> 00:43:59,639
the materials and information that was retrieved. So during this time there were times

564
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:05,360
where mouf On personnel just could not
respond quickly enough, and protocol was that

565
00:44:05,519 --> 00:44:08,519
mouf On was to get there first. They were the lead investigators. But

566
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:14,199
move On is full of volunteers.
Most everybody has jobs, and they can't

567
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,679
just drop everything, kids, responsibilities, they can't drop any everything. And

568
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:22,840
I think I remember quickly correctly,
there was a case where mouf On just

569
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:27,360
couldn't get there for like two weeks, and Bigelows people are like, we

570
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,840
can't wait that long, you know, we need to get out there now.

571
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:35,000
And somewhere along the line it was
approved where Bigelow could go send their

572
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:39,320
organization could send people out there and
to begin the investigation, and that has

573
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:45,159
caused some of the confusion. However, you know, I was in touch

574
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,440
with a guy who ran that program, Richard Lange, and in fact I

575
00:44:47,519 --> 00:44:53,719
have interviews on my podcast with him
about all of this. And my goal

576
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:59,199
was transparency. Nobody was going to
the source to let Richard share, you

577
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,800
know, his aarience with it.
And people said, oh, you know

578
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:07,719
Bigelow bought all this material and hit
it. No, everyone had access to

579
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,719
that. In fact, you can
find all of those biglowcases, the best

580
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:17,400
of the best and what they discovered
in Open Minds magazine and even on our

581
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:22,320
website. We wrote about all of
these cases in detail, and there were

582
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:27,159
some really good cases. There was, I know, a case in the

583
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:34,599
Navajo Nation where this you know,
young woman was followed by this ORB and

584
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,800
there were some sort of effects.
I can't remember the detail to that vehicle.

585
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,960
But there was another case, and
I believe this was in the East

586
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,960
Coast, a similar sort of thing. A person seeing a UFO and their

587
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:51,480
car stopping and they got there and
they were to measure an electromagnetic effect on

588
00:45:51,519 --> 00:45:54,280
the vehicle. The owner of the
vehicle was so freaked out about this he

589
00:45:54,360 --> 00:46:00,719
sold the car. So there were
a lot of great cases that we're a

590
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:07,639
result of these investigations, and and
all of that material was shared with everyone.

591
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,599
So uh, you know, people
claiming that oh, you know,

592
00:46:10,639 --> 00:46:16,639
Biglow hoarded and hit information. That
was not the case at all, and

593
00:46:17,559 --> 00:46:21,599
I was able to confirm with everyone
that that, you know, I had

594
00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:24,079
the material in fact, when we
printed that at open Mind, so stories,

595
00:46:24,119 --> 00:46:28,280
people complain, well, why does
Alejandro get that? Why did they

596
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,280
get a printing? By then,
I wasn't officially a you know, part

597
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:37,079
of the leadership of mufon, but
like they said, well, anybody could

598
00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:40,119
have gotten this information, and in
fact, you know, they shared that

599
00:46:40,199 --> 00:46:44,159
with other people as well, so
when they complained, they were like,

600
00:46:44,199 --> 00:46:45,679
well do you want it? And
they're like good, and so they you

601
00:46:45,679 --> 00:46:49,920
know, gave them the stories too. So all of these reports, I

602
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:55,599
think we're even all online, but
all you know, accessible for anyone,

603
00:46:58,159 --> 00:47:00,400
and so you know, I,
I know, people dispute that, and

604
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:07,079
there's all these legends and mythologies,
but that's my firsthand experience had having witnessed

605
00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:16,320
the whole thing. There also were
complics within Moufon management regarding you know,

606
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:22,360
the program, and unfortunately, you
know, that really kind of led to

607
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:28,760
the fall of the where the program
just didn't work out. And it's partially

608
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:37,039
you know, I think that Bigelow
was trying to take advantage of and bolster

609
00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:42,760
an already existing network, and what
they could have done is not done that

610
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,400
just gone with their own people.
But MUFON already has boots on the ground

611
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:50,800
all over the country, so ideally
it would make sense that that would work.

612
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,400
But Moufon is just a volunteer organization. And I think that's kind of

613
00:47:55,719 --> 00:48:00,119
what made it most difficult is that, you know, it wasn't people who

614
00:48:00,119 --> 00:48:05,360
can drop everything and go run and
do these things. And uh, there

615
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,400
were people. There were territorial disputes. People can get um, pretty territorial

616
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:15,360
over what happens in their states,
and um, so yeah, so there

617
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:21,000
were people who just were hesitant,
and so it did all break down eventually,

618
00:48:21,039 --> 00:48:28,440
and then rumors got started and and
you know, uh, people were

619
00:48:28,559 --> 00:48:34,360
sharing inaccurate information that you know,
I knew better. I'll put it that

620
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:40,679
way. But it was unfortunate that
we've got about four minutes to break How

621
00:48:40,679 --> 00:48:44,920
did it actually and I have another
question about that, but how did I

622
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:52,280
actually fall apart and crash? And
actually, um, well, it was

623
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,440
these disputes, internal disputes with move
on, uh, and then and it

624
00:48:55,519 --> 00:49:05,719
was often over records because you Bigelow
had an expectation over how the financial records

625
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:12,480
were kept, and and you know, there were kind of just difficulties in

626
00:49:12,559 --> 00:49:19,840
that way because again, really I
think in that aspect one would an organization

627
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,239
like move On probably and this is
probably what should have happened, is they

628
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:27,639
should have hired maybe an accountant to
oversee all of that. That probably would

629
00:49:27,679 --> 00:49:30,519
have been wise, to make sure
that it was all transparent and on the

630
00:49:30,599 --> 00:49:34,119
up and up. But it was
all resource issues. Move On just didn't

631
00:49:34,159 --> 00:49:37,719
have the resources, just like always
and people always, you know, that

632
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,039
was a big thing that I used
to have to talk about when I was

633
00:49:39,079 --> 00:49:42,719
doing pr for move On. Why
does it move On do this? And

634
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,239
why doesn't move On do that?
I would try to say, you know,

635
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,639
first of all, we don't have
the resources we're stretched in for already

636
00:49:49,679 --> 00:49:52,719
for what we do. And mostly
you know, people are volunteering their time

637
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:59,480
the board for instance, all of
those individuals have kicked in their own funds

638
00:49:59,639 --> 00:50:02,880
period oddically to keep move On going. I can only imagine how some of

639
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:07,239
those long timers like Bob Wood's,
how much money they put into it.

640
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:13,480
So it's it's you know, a
volunteer thing. And so when you're you've

641
00:50:13,519 --> 00:50:16,840
got this conflict between you know,
more corporate type of structure and then this

642
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:25,360
volunteer organization, I think there's probably
some sort of structure that needed to be

643
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:31,559
put in place that was more formal
and probably more robust that kind of oversaw

644
00:50:31,679 --> 00:50:35,800
things. Well, we got about
just a couple of minutes to break.

645
00:50:36,079 --> 00:50:43,239
But so if if Bob Bigelow was
actually at that time funded or backfunded from

646
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:49,559
the Pentagon or whatever whatever program it
was, how far back were they standing,

647
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:53,039
in other words, up were they
getting all the information or did they

648
00:50:53,159 --> 00:50:58,480
required as far as you know,
required to get the information or of any

649
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,840
you know, important cases, or
do they essentially one other question, does

650
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,960
anyone from the government actually get involved
directly boots on the ground with any of

651
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,519
the cases that you're aware of?
Oh no, nobody, I don't think,

652
00:51:10,559 --> 00:51:16,039
because that was a well hidden secret
that there was any government involvement at

653
00:51:16,039 --> 00:51:19,960
all. So there was definitely no
boots on the ground. In fact,

654
00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:23,960
a lot of people who were involved
with Bigelow at the time overseeing this on

655
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:30,800
the Bigelow side, were not even
aware of government involvement until this last December

656
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:37,440
Wow Yeah, isn't that crazy?
Yeah? And do you know we have

657
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:42,880
just one minute here to go.
But do you know if the government actually

658
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:47,679
took any interest in certain cases and
you know, almost like blue Book in

659
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:52,559
a way, you know, it
seems like they still had like a just

660
00:51:54,239 --> 00:52:00,199
you know, deniability set up,
but still they had a curiosity. It

661
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:05,360
sounds like, yeah, and we
don't know any of that. So unfortunately,

662
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,559
even Alexandro can't share that information.
The only thing, the only case

663
00:52:09,639 --> 00:52:15,320
that they've shared that they had an
interest in, is the Nimits one they've

664
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,360
released, of course, a couple
of other videos, and at least one

665
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:21,360
of those we know a little bit, or at least think we know a

666
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:25,159
little bit about its origins. And
I can't remember the details right now,

667
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:32,679
but very little information about what the
government took an interest in has been released.

668
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:37,199
Wow. Interesting. All right,
So we are ready to go to

669
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,400
break of. This is Martin Willis. My guest is Alejandro Rojas, and

670
00:52:40,519 --> 00:52:46,199
we'll be right back right after these
messages. Alejandro, I have some questions

671
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:52,199
or I have a question. Actually
Kerry wrote this question here as a journalist.

672
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:58,639
Do you think that mainstream media and
corporations like NASA are controlled by higher

673
00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:07,559
authority on output is gets out to
the public not at all. I used

674
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:12,519
to think that perhaps there was some
at some level, but this has been

675
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:19,280
a real interest of mine. So
when I interviewed journalists and people in the

676
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,800
media or have been involved, and
I have been especially lately involved with a

677
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:28,480
lot of NASA stories, I've been
to a lot of facilities, I've interviewed

678
00:53:28,559 --> 00:53:31,679
several astronauts. In fact, I
just released an article with an interview with

679
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:37,000
an astronaut just this last week,
and I haven't found any of that.

680
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:45,559
What I found is actually makes me
more frustrated about the conspiracies because what I

681
00:53:45,599 --> 00:53:50,159
find when it comes to journalists and
especially with NASA, is that you have

682
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:58,719
very people who for the most part, have very altruistic intentions about what they

683
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,639
do. Most journalists, because it's
not easy and it doesn't always pay a

684
00:54:01,679 --> 00:54:08,239
lot of money, Most journalists are
passionate about getting information out, and most

685
00:54:08,639 --> 00:54:14,760
do their best to get that information
out in an unbiased manner. And they

686
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:21,039
certainly because your job and your access
to information is dependent upon it getting it

687
00:54:21,039 --> 00:54:29,599
out accurately. Because it's hard for
someone to get punished for putting out accurate

688
00:54:29,639 --> 00:54:34,000
information it's the opposite that can really
get you in trouble because all of your

689
00:54:34,039 --> 00:54:40,880
competitors are keeping an eye on you. With NASA, these people have their

690
00:54:42,159 --> 00:54:51,400
major concern is the public dollar and
safety and taking care of those astronauts and

691
00:54:51,559 --> 00:54:55,840
getting them there and back again in
a safe manner. And when it comes

692
00:54:55,880 --> 00:55:04,079
to unmanned missions, to make sure
that that public dollar is not misspent.

693
00:55:04,199 --> 00:55:09,679
That that you know, ten million
dollar instrument they're sending into space is the

694
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:15,199
people get their money's worse. And
I think anybody who would visit a facility

695
00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:20,360
and talk with these individuals would feel
that way. And you can't really get

696
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,079
as much a sense of that unless
you go visit these places and talk with

697
00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:28,599
these people. And a lot of
NASA facilities you can go and visit these

698
00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:36,239
people and talk with them. I
am a huge fan of NASA personnel and

699
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,880
of journalists, and every journalist I've
talked to, for instance, least Biegel

700
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:45,400
Leaspiegel wrote worked for the Huffington Post. He wrote whatever UFO story he wanted.

701
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:50,400
Sometimes they would argue over headlines,
and I got to write. I

702
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,440
got to write any UFO story I
wanted. All right, Welcome back everyone,

703
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:58,960
This is Martin Willis with podcast UFO. My guest is Alejandro Rojas and

704
00:55:59,559 --> 00:56:02,480
he was just in the middle of
something during break and I don't know if

705
00:56:02,519 --> 00:56:07,199
you want to continue that or kind
of ease the h the listening audience into

706
00:56:07,199 --> 00:56:09,719
that, or if you want to
move on to something else. Let's best

707
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,119
for you all, Drew, I
don't know what's up to you. I

708
00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:15,320
guess your show. What do you
think it's interesting? Well, it's all

709
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:20,079
interesting. I think you are kind
of capping, kind of capping that.

710
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:25,199
Yeah, I guess. I was
just talking about in this case, especially

711
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:30,960
what I was finishing off was journalism. Do I feel that journalism is manipulated

712
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:36,320
by the you know, the powers
that be? And from my experience and

713
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:40,039
from my experience interviewing other people in
journalism and the media, that has not

714
00:56:40,199 --> 00:56:46,239
been the case. I've interviewed moviemakers, I've interviewed investigative journalists, not only

715
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:53,199
George Knapp, but there's like least
Biegel, Leslie Kane, but there's others

716
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:58,880
in the mainstream and for the most
part, there is a lot of freedom

717
00:56:59,039 --> 00:57:01,800
that you know, especial fullly in
today's world where a lot of journalism is

718
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:07,440
freelance. You go find your story
and you write your story. And my

719
00:57:07,519 --> 00:57:13,559
experience with Havington Post, for example, even with Lee, we were never

720
00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:21,159
denied to writing a story about UFOs
or aliens, especially as long as we,

721
00:57:22,039 --> 00:57:24,480
you know, were credible and we
had a reputation to uphold and a

722
00:57:24,599 --> 00:57:31,480
reputation that the information was solid because
it would be checked. I even wrote

723
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:37,599
about Colonel Halt, who was the
highest ranking officer at randallshom Forrest in nineteen

724
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:43,199
eighty when they all saw UFO,
and Colonel Halt had told me he believed

725
00:57:43,679 --> 00:57:50,880
that his men might have been drugged
by you know, other agents in the

726
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,519
Air Force that he was not aware
of. That they could have come on

727
00:57:53,599 --> 00:58:00,679
base debrief some of his guys even
used like sodium pentethal and then left and

728
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:05,000
he would not have been aware,
made aware, and he believed that did

729
00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:09,079
occur. So that's some pretty hot
stuff. In fact, what's funny about

730
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:14,480
that is we tried to write a
press release on this about Colonel Hall coming

731
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:20,199
to a UFO congress to talk about
this, and the press release company wouldn't

732
00:58:20,239 --> 00:58:22,679
release the press release because they thought, whoa, this is too much.

733
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:28,079
They didn't listen to my sources,
because I had him on record, you

734
00:58:28,119 --> 00:58:34,760
know, on tape saying this,
but no media outlet had denied that information.

735
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:39,039
So surprisingly, you know, it
has not been my experience, and

736
00:58:39,039 --> 00:58:44,719
I would ask anybody to go talk
to a journalist, especially at these conferences

737
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:49,199
where you have like Bryce Zabel,
who worked on the TV show Dark Skies

738
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,119
he created it, and some of
these others. Those are the type of

739
00:58:52,119 --> 00:58:57,760
shows that we would assume would have
some sort of manipulation. Now, he

740
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,880
does have a couple of interesting stories
where you know, maybe somebody tried to

741
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:07,320
kind of frighten him and he doesn't
know where these people came from. So

742
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,519
there are some interesting stories out there
like that, but nothing from like an

743
00:59:10,639 --> 00:59:15,000
editor or a manager or a producer
saying, hey, you can't do that,

744
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:19,639
don't talk about that. Nothing like
that interesting. We have someone in

745
00:59:19,639 --> 00:59:23,760
the child room just asked a question
wondering, have you yourself The guy's name's

746
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:28,039
Plower. I think it is,
have you yourself had any type of paranormal

747
00:59:28,119 --> 00:59:42,159
experience. I've had a couple of
UFO sidings, and but that's about all.

748
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:44,960
I feel like I'm forgetting something.
I think, for instance, I

749
00:59:45,159 --> 00:59:51,320
thought you told me about I might
be confusing you with someone else, but

750
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:55,039
a shadow person or something something strange
in a hotel. I am, no,

751
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:59,199
that wasn't me. Yeah, but
because I've done a lot of ghost

752
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,639
hunting, and you know, at
first, you go and you're kind of

753
01:00:01,639 --> 01:00:04,920
freaked out, and you're like,
oh my gosh, this is gonna be

754
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,440
so fun. We're gonna get something
cool. But the more and more I

755
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:12,719
did it, it was like I
wanted an experience and I was no longer

756
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,840
frightened. And my cousin used to
tease me because we would go to a

757
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:20,320
haunted place and I would want to
know or where's the most activity, and

758
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,760
I would go shooting off towards there
where everybody's like, I'm not going there,

759
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:27,280
But that's exactly where I wanted to
be because I wanted to have an

760
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:32,159
experience. But I didn't. That
doesn't to mean mean that it doesn't exist.

761
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:37,119
It just means for whatever reason I
didn't. For instance, you know,

762
01:00:37,199 --> 01:00:42,079
people talk about Skinwalker Ranch and George
Knapp had talked about how they put

763
01:00:42,159 --> 01:00:46,760
him in the scariest location and did
all this stuff that usually brings in phenomena

764
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:52,480
because they were hoping to capture something
and nothing happened. And the way George

765
01:00:52,599 --> 01:00:59,679
or John Alexander, retired Army colonel
who was involved in that investigation puts it,

766
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,440
as you know, over a period
of time, let's say three years,

767
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:07,440
even if you have you know,
dozens of experiences, two dozen different

768
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:13,159
experiences that have happened, that's only
twenty four days over a span of maybe

769
01:01:13,239 --> 01:01:16,760
six hundred days. So the odds
of you any day coming and having an

770
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:22,559
experience is pretty pretty small. It's
just basically the same thing as UFO sightings.

771
01:01:22,599 --> 01:01:27,119
I mean, yeah, they're so
elusive. Yeah, and how do

772
01:01:27,159 --> 01:01:30,159
you have sightings? People ask how
do I have sightings? My answers always

773
01:01:30,239 --> 01:01:36,760
go outside and spend time skywatching.
And that's why I think eventually I was

774
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,159
a UFO investigator with mouf On for
five or six years before I had my

775
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:47,039
first what I felt was a UFO
sighting, and I have spent a lot

776
01:01:47,159 --> 01:01:52,559
of time watching the night sky.
In fact, Bill was just talking about

777
01:01:52,559 --> 01:01:55,800
how Mark D'Antonio was in town,
the mouf On photo and video expert,

778
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:00,960
and we were doing a lot of
astrophotography out there taking pictures of the skis.

779
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:05,960
While we're out there doing skywatches.
So it's a lot of time out

780
01:02:06,039 --> 01:02:09,079
there watching the sky. You see
satellites, you see rockets. You learned

781
01:02:09,159 --> 01:02:13,880
so much, and once in a
great, great, great while, maybe

782
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:19,599
you'll see something really odd that just
defies explanation. Now, didn't you write

783
01:02:19,599 --> 01:02:24,559
an article about astronomers and UFOs.
I do have an article about that,

784
01:02:24,599 --> 01:02:29,280
and that's going to be one of
my talks at the Alien Con, which

785
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:30,960
is just this weekend. I'll be
headed out there in a couple of days,

786
01:02:31,039 --> 01:02:37,079
right. And I love this article
because or this this lecture. It

787
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:42,599
really justifies it shows. I use
a lot of Sess shaw Stack in this,

788
01:02:42,719 --> 01:02:45,599
and I even kind of use his
own words against him, which is

789
01:02:45,639 --> 01:02:47,760
I love and I love sat and
that's why I like using him in it.

790
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:52,360
He has a lot of great things
to say, but he's terrible when

791
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,400
it comes to UFOs. You've talked
to him before, you've had him on

792
01:02:54,440 --> 01:03:00,639
the show, and he doesn't really
do with due diligence into looking into it,

793
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:07,199
and he just doesn't put any credence
in UFO sightings. And when I

794
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,320
met him, I told him,
you know, I asked him about credible

795
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:15,000
sightings and stuff, and he wouldn't
really talk about individual cases. He just

796
01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:19,000
said if UFOs, if there's something
out there, astronomers would be into it.

797
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,760
And I was like, there are
astronomers out there. And that was

798
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:28,960
about the end of our conversation.
But I was like, I'm gonna make

799
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,000
sure I'm prepared to answer that question
if that comes up again, and if

800
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:34,920
I get to talk to him.
So I did a lecture. Not only

801
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:40,599
have they are hasn't been shown and
there's been studies that astronomers are just as

802
01:03:40,599 --> 01:03:46,400
fascinated, they have just as many
sightings as anyone else, but also they're

803
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:52,000
the ones who started all of this. The grandfather of modern uphology is doctor

804
01:03:52,079 --> 01:03:57,880
j Alan Heinek, an astronomer who
worked for the Air Force investigating He thought

805
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:00,239
they were ridiculous, but then he
came to see, wow, there's a

806
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:06,239
lot of credible sightings. In nineteen
fifty two, Grupelt he wrote a book

807
01:04:06,239 --> 01:04:10,519
about this. Colonel Rupelt, who
was in charge of Project Blue Book.

808
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:17,280
He was tasked at the end of
Project Grudge at prior to Project Blue Book

809
01:04:17,599 --> 01:04:21,119
the UFO study, to go see
what's going on with this UFO stuff.

810
01:04:21,519 --> 01:04:25,880
And they were kind of trying to
get out of the UFO business. But

811
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,800
a bunch of things happened, including
Washington nineteen fifty two siding, but also

812
01:04:30,159 --> 01:04:34,559
this Life magazine article, and in
this article a couple of the most famous

813
01:04:34,599 --> 01:04:40,239
astronomers at the time talked about their
UFO sidings and how they believe that we

814
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:45,480
are being visited and that essentially was
responsible for Project Blue Book starting up,

815
01:04:45,519 --> 01:04:51,239
and that it created so much public
interest. We have Peter Struck who's written

816
01:04:51,239 --> 01:04:57,199
a book and he interviewed a bunch
of astronomers, so we have a whole

817
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:03,000
history here. And more recently we
have stories like Jordan talked about Project Or

818
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:10,199
that this Omuamua object, that it's
the first interstellar object to come into our

819
01:05:10,239 --> 01:05:15,000
solar system and then leave, and
there's a lot of mysterious things about it.

820
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,480
It moves very strangely. They think
this is probably because of radiation from

821
01:05:18,519 --> 01:05:25,360
the Sun. But in this recent
Harvard study that people are writing a lot

822
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:30,039
about in the last couple of days
and that is actually getting published in a

823
01:05:30,239 --> 01:05:35,719
science journal on the sixteenth, they
say that if that's true, the material

824
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:40,840
that the thing is made of is
something that we do not understand because it

825
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,480
doesn't move the way it should.
So this whatever it's made out of is

826
01:05:44,519 --> 01:05:48,199
really weird. And then he goes
on to speculate that perhaps it was sent

827
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:55,039
here by aliens. Perhaps it's a
solar sale being pushed by the heat of

828
01:05:55,079 --> 01:05:58,639
the Sun to come in and kind
of check out all these different solar systems.

829
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,360
And so it's interesting about that,
and we have other instances of this

830
01:06:02,519 --> 01:06:09,599
more recently, is the astronomers themselves
are going to the alien answer. You

831
01:06:09,639 --> 01:06:13,920
know, they're they're pulling the Georgio
two cuculos and they're saying, this might

832
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:18,519
be aliens, and you know what
it might be. One sad part with

833
01:06:18,559 --> 01:06:23,239
ol Muamu is it's now gone too
far away. There's no way even if

834
01:06:23,239 --> 01:06:26,760
we wanted to go out there and
check it out to see what it's made

835
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,880
of, there's no way we'll be
able to catch it. We just don't

836
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,400
have a craft that can get to
it and get back. So we may

837
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,280
never find out what's up with that. But did they have any you know

838
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,199
how, a lot of times they
can project when something is going to cycle

839
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:45,559
through. If this is actually going, you know, out of the solar

840
01:06:45,559 --> 01:06:48,840
system, there's probably no way at
all they can understand any type of cycle

841
01:06:49,519 --> 01:06:56,639
with that exactly they came in.
They were able through um, you know,

842
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:00,800
scientific or mathematical equations, kind of
figure out the general area and three

843
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:06,079
solar systems that might have come from
which are very very far away. And

844
01:07:06,119 --> 01:07:11,159
then the Sun did pull it around, and then it flew back out in

845
01:07:11,239 --> 01:07:15,920
another direction. But now it's headed
straight away from us. Um, there's

846
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:20,280
no indication that it'll ever be back, and even if it was, it

847
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:27,000
would we're going to be long gone
at least you and I maybe so maybe

848
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:31,440
the whole planet. So yeah,
so it's just coming gone, and that

849
01:07:31,559 --> 01:07:36,159
is really fascinating. We have the
lines open if anyone wants to call in

850
01:07:36,679 --> 01:07:40,920
a lot of times people have told
me they would love to ask alle hundred

851
01:07:41,119 --> 01:07:45,119
question. Now's your chance. That
numbers up on the screen on YouTube is

852
01:07:45,159 --> 01:07:50,000
six O three nine six seven four
h three. That phone numbers only live

853
01:07:50,079 --> 01:07:55,440
during the show's only so people call
off. Have you ever had anybody do

854
01:07:55,519 --> 01:08:02,400
this on the show? Damn yet, epsiicola whatever it is in doing that,

855
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:08,719
think so. Another question that came
in in a hypothetical scenario where a

856
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:18,560
respected scientist had an abduction experience that
Travis what science had the abduction experience?

857
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:24,840
Of Travis Walton and Derd how much
of an influence would you think this would

858
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:29,880
have within the scientific community on a
serious study of the subject. In other

859
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:34,560
words, of a scientist himself had
a Travis Walton type of an experience that

860
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:40,359
really has to do with the personality
of the person based. I think that's

861
01:08:40,399 --> 01:08:48,640
a great question, and it could
even speak to who is having experiences.

862
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:54,760
And Travis Walton, for instance,
to someone he lived out in Arizona.

863
01:08:55,760 --> 01:09:00,159
You know, he's become friend.
But you know, I always take a

864
01:09:00,199 --> 01:09:05,159
skeptical look at everything. But um, I've talked with and interviewed I think

865
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:11,399
pretty much more of the witnesses than
any journalist has because we've talked to the

866
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,640
first police officer I've talked to.
And it's also partially you know Karen,

867
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:20,960
she worked on Travis's last conference and
she found witnesses that hadn't spoken before,

868
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:27,239
and they came out to the conference, then came to the conference our the

869
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:39,279
UFO Congress. His every one of
full a joke. It's freezing up her.

870
01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:45,119
Yeah, it froze again. We
have a caller on the line.

871
01:09:45,159 --> 01:09:49,000
Can you hear me call her?
Yes? Here? Okay, Um,

872
01:09:49,079 --> 01:09:54,399
sorry, Alejandro froze up. I
don't know what's going on this second time

873
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:58,880
this has happened. So we can
talk for a minute until he comes back.

874
01:10:00,079 --> 01:10:03,479
UM So, uh, you did
you have a question specifically for him

875
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:09,640
or in general? It's a it's
a question just all around for both of

876
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:12,199
you. All right, Well,
I'll take it until we get him back

877
01:10:12,239 --> 01:10:15,079
on. All right, I'm at
from South Carolina, but I meant to

878
01:10:15,119 --> 01:10:19,359
ask you. I'm sorry that.
Welcome to the show, and uh and

879
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:24,920
thanks for thanks for the call.
Um, so I go ahead, and

880
01:10:25,319 --> 01:10:30,520
what what if your and Alejandro's take
on Corey Good and David Wilcock and they're

881
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:36,439
some of their accusations and Corey Good, Um, I think he copyrighted the

882
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:42,920
term secret space program or something like
that. Right. Uh, yeah,

883
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:45,800
you know, I hear a lot
of controversy. I just don't know enough

884
01:10:45,199 --> 01:10:49,720
about it. I'm not I'm not
following you know, basically his circle in

885
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:55,640
particular. Um So, I don't
really you know, Alejandro would probably have

886
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:00,159
some more feedback on that, you
know, the secret space program. Am

887
01:11:00,199 --> 01:11:02,920
I'm not really sure. I'm kind
of on defense about that one in particular

888
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:09,720
myself. Um, but what are
your thoughts on it seems like it's something

889
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:14,960
you're looking into. I just think
it's all a little shaghazy. Um,

890
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:19,439
Like Corey Good it's that I think
calls them the Blue Avians Aviens or something

891
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:24,960
alien people or Blue Avian people something
like that. It's just it's just a

892
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,439
little too phaghazy for me. I
think it's, you know, more,

893
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,880
instead of being down for the truth
and you know, trying to expose the

894
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:34,439
truth, they're you know, down
for more of a like a cult following.

895
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:39,600
You know. Uh it you know
it does work. It definitely does

896
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:45,119
work um for some people. Um, and they do have an amazing followings

897
01:11:45,359 --> 01:11:50,720
and somehow it maybe there may be
some financial benefits to it. I don't

898
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:56,800
know how that works. Um,
But yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't

899
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:00,720
mean the REP. I know they're
I know they're a pretty kine with the

900
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,199
fade to Black Jimmie Church crowd and
you know, all that type of stuff.

901
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:08,760
It's funny I saw a posting about
that. Um, I guess he's

902
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:13,520
been on there seven times or something
like that. So yes, yeah,

903
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,920
so that, uh, there is
something to that, you know, I

904
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:19,159
mean, um, you know it's
it's maybe um for that particular reason.

905
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,600
Um, there's a lot of listeners. You know. For instance, I

906
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:27,800
know if um you know Stephen Greer, are certain people like that are on

907
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:31,399
some type of show on YouTube.
Um, it gets a lot of use,

908
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:36,680
there's a lot of action. Um, so I'm sure in my opinion,

909
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:43,720
So go ahead, Oh go ahead, I'm in my in my opinion,

910
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:48,199
the best the best researcher out there
right now is Richard Dolan's top Knock.

911
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:55,439
Yeah. Yeah, I've had Richard
on UM a while ago. Out

912
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:59,479
it seems to know. Someone just
wrote me and said I haven't actually been

913
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:03,680
following him, but that he has
branched out into other things? Is that?

914
01:13:04,239 --> 01:13:09,600
Are you aware of that? Um? I watched his live stream,

915
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:14,159
you know whenever whenever I get the
message for it. Um, I'm not.

916
01:13:14,239 --> 01:13:16,439
I'm not too too familiar. What
else he's brands down into. Um,

917
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:21,520
everything I've watched is still you know
UFO UFO related. I see.

918
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:26,359
Uh now I know, UM,
you know, I I consider him.

919
01:13:26,399 --> 01:13:30,119
You know, he's very intelligent,
he's really a good speaker. UM.

920
01:13:30,239 --> 01:13:33,680
I've met him a few times and
uh he was on my show one time,

921
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:38,279
and uh it does you know there
are a lot of he does have

922
01:13:38,319 --> 01:13:43,520
a very strong following. Um.
He also is interested in uh you know,

923
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:46,800
producing books too, right, he
has a he has a publishing company

924
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:50,760
of some kind, yes, sir, yes, sir. Interesting. Yeah,

925
01:13:51,199 --> 01:13:57,119
I'm big fan of Richard Dolan.
Um, Peter Ian Venda. Um,

926
01:13:57,159 --> 01:14:01,920
he's he's pretty good. Um,
The Girl Years, the I'm not

927
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:05,920
too big a fan of Greer Um
the John Lears. You have to take

928
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:10,319
what he says with a grain of
salt. I think I think half of

929
01:14:10,359 --> 01:14:14,199
what he says is truthful, with
the other half is distiller, you know.

930
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:19,199
Um. But yeah, there's definitely
some characters in the in the in

931
01:14:19,239 --> 01:14:25,720
the ufology department. Yeah, Um, you know it is. There's just

932
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:30,199
you know, realistically, there's just
a very small portion of the public that

933
01:14:30,279 --> 01:14:33,199
has an interest in this. This
is just a little, tiny, tiny

934
01:14:33,239 --> 01:14:39,239
fragment um of the public that has
an interest in this, which I think

935
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:44,720
I do get that. But if
you know, if the discovery is that

936
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,079
there is other intelligent life out there, I think, um, I think

937
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:54,079
there would be. Well, I
personally think it's would be the most amazing

938
01:14:54,119 --> 01:14:57,880
thing of our lifetime. Um.
But yeah, I just think a lot

939
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:00,680
more people would get involved in it. I think they actually thought there was

940
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:06,119
something to it. Yeah, I
would just love before his before his time

941
01:15:06,239 --> 01:15:09,880
ends, I would love for buzz
altern to come clean and let us know

942
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:13,800
what what the hell really went on
on the moon. I would love that.

943
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:15,760
That would be I mean, Haley
wouldn't have anything to lose. I

944
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:19,920
think Buzz is Buzzes. I've now. I don't know for sure, and

945
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:24,560
I don't want to start any rumors, but I understand his health is not

946
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:28,640
so good, and I don't know
really much more about it. But I

947
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:31,159
just had heard a few people have
told me that, but I don't have

948
01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:34,840
any firsthand, you know, comments, so that hopefully he's doing okay.

949
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:41,039
Yeah, I would love for him
to come clean or um, George Bush

950
01:15:41,039 --> 01:15:43,840
Senior, I would like I mean, his days, you know, aren't

951
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:46,920
you know too? You know,
he doesn't have too much time left probably

952
01:15:47,039 --> 01:15:50,560
and him being head of you know, the CIA and a former president,

953
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:55,359
he's gotten to know what's going on. I would I would love for one

954
01:15:55,399 --> 01:15:58,399
of those two to come clean and
let us know what's really happening. Hang

955
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:00,560
on just a minute, hang on, Matt, just one second here,

956
01:16:01,399 --> 01:16:08,600
Caller, is that with that happened
to be Alejandro Caller? We haven't.

957
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:12,720
No, it's not all okay,
No, well do you drop again?

958
01:16:13,239 --> 01:16:15,800
Yeah, I've been trying to get
him back on UM. So Matt,

959
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,039
I'll say goodbye to you and I'll
take this call, and hopefully I'm going

960
01:16:19,079 --> 01:16:21,760
to try to get to all one
hundred to actually call the number here and

961
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:25,439
get him on the phone at least. But Matt, thanks so much for

962
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:28,760
the call. Sounds good. I
love to show Barbara. All right,

963
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:31,159
take care. So new caller,
what's your name and where are you calling

964
01:16:31,239 --> 01:16:36,520
from? My name is Jay and
I'm calling from Oklahoma, Hija. Welcome

965
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:41,439
to the show, and i'd like
to tell everyone I am no longer a

966
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:47,720
believers. I am now a no. I've been transformed into a nowhere.

967
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:53,600
Oh wow, I've had I had
an experience. Actually last year I was

968
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:56,840
hoping Alejandro would be on the line
because it was I was in his neck

969
01:16:56,840 --> 01:17:00,960
of the woods. I was living
out in Scottsdale and North Scottdale, Arizona,

970
01:17:00,079 --> 01:17:04,640
which is fairly we have some pretty
good night skies, and I kind

971
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:09,239
of wanted to get a little bit
different, a little bit different angle before

972
01:17:09,279 --> 01:17:11,840
I tell you my entire story.
It was kind of interesting. We were

973
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:14,720
eating dinner outside because you know,
Arizona is nice. And it was in

974
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:18,199
August at twenty seventeen, and I
was sitting there with my girlfriend and I

975
01:17:18,199 --> 01:17:21,119
said, I really want to see
something definitive, because you know, we

976
01:17:21,119 --> 01:17:28,720
were we'd see satellites and we would
see lights open up and little dusts go

977
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:31,239
through them. And I said,
I wanted to see something definitive. So

978
01:17:31,279 --> 01:17:34,000
I put that energy out there.
I wanted to see something definitives for a

979
01:17:34,079 --> 01:17:39,880
change. And I'm a I'm a
former military aviator, and so was my

980
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:45,960
girlfriend. And so we have what
twenty years of observation in the sky,

981
01:17:45,039 --> 01:17:47,960
okay, so we're not just some
somebody that walked outside and looked up.

982
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:54,640
We know what we know what lies
around at least from the earth. So

983
01:17:55,159 --> 01:18:00,199
about two hours later, it's dark
and we're kind of being lazy and didn't

984
01:18:00,199 --> 01:18:01,680
want to lose our night vision,
and we're pointing around the night sky and

985
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:05,000
I said, okay, well we'll
call this area two stars so we could

986
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:09,640
call out satellites to each other and
the events. And we looked right over

987
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,800
at an Terry's and I said,
and we're both looking at the same spot,

988
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:15,880
and I said, we'll call that, and then we see this humongous

989
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:20,960
disc and it was kind of a
tear dropped at the end at the backside

990
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:25,000
of it, and it basically still
there. Ye oh yeah, I'm listening.

991
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:28,239
Oh yeah, sorry, okay,
yeah, sorry, yes, And

992
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:32,640
we see this enormous light and we
could actually see detail on it, and

993
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:38,439
then it basically we're about the length
of my finger holding it up into the

994
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:42,119
sky, so it must have been
really high in orbit, and it basically

995
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,800
either went to warp or it looked
more like it went to warp from I

996
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:49,479
hate to use the analogy to Star
Trek, but basically we saw the shimmering

997
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:54,159
and then it disappeared in a solid
line. So in other words, it's

998
01:18:54,159 --> 01:18:57,880
almost like a line opened up in
the whole craft went went through that line.

999
01:18:58,279 --> 01:19:00,319
It was absolutely amazing. And did
you see that? Just that I

1000
01:19:00,359 --> 01:19:03,079
saw it, so I had I
had, you know, when we're both

1001
01:19:03,199 --> 01:19:09,079
educated, not that that really matters, but we're both saying adults, and

1002
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:13,199
it was absolutely amazing. How far
would you think it was from you?

1003
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:17,000
I would say it was in orbit. It had to be absolutely enormous,

1004
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,600
So this was That's that's the impression
I got, and any other witnesses,

1005
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:30,039
yes, one other. And did
you actually file a report? I actually

1006
01:19:30,079 --> 01:19:33,760
filed it with Alejandrow Oh okay,
all right, but actually I didn't receive

1007
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:40,319
a follow up or anything. And
I don't remember when I actually went right

1008
01:19:40,359 --> 01:19:44,079
inside and wrote up the whole thing
so I would have it. And that

1009
01:19:44,159 --> 01:19:49,319
was it actually happened in August sixteen
of twenty seventeen. Wow. Wow,

1010
01:19:49,359 --> 01:19:55,560
that's really interesting. And so do
you think it actually change shape or do

1011
01:19:55,600 --> 01:20:00,119
you think it just actually took off? I think I think it took off

1012
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:03,319
or went to it. I got
the impression that it went through a portal,

1013
01:20:04,079 --> 01:20:09,000
it sped up, and it was
enormous and I'd have to find get

1014
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:11,960
one of my math guys to do
it because it was about the size.

1015
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:15,159
I would say it was seventy five
percent of a full moon the size of

1016
01:20:15,159 --> 01:20:19,359
it, and it looked way up
in the sky. But it was huge

1017
01:20:19,399 --> 01:20:25,800
from our vantage point, and it
was big. It was just at nighttime

1018
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:28,680
time. What time of the day
was it. It was about about nine

1019
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:33,880
pm? Impm? Okay, um, wow, that's really fascinating. Um.

1020
01:20:34,079 --> 01:20:40,000
And it was a great experience.
Yeah. How about noise? Was

1021
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:44,640
there any noise factor that you're aware
of none. None, and it could

1022
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:47,479
have been too far away also,
you know, I mean that's another you

1023
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:51,920
know, alternative. But well,
I got the impression that it was very

1024
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:56,239
far away. I mean I got
the impression that it was that it was

1025
01:20:56,279 --> 01:20:59,520
in the orbit. That's kind of
my impression that I got right there.

1026
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:04,760
So I've got this impression and it
was enormous. It's almost like it's almost

1027
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:08,720
we kind of discussed it after where
we're like it almost felt like we were

1028
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:10,880
being teased, you know, like, oh, hey, here, look

1029
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:15,680
it up, now you're a believer. I got my defensitive answer. Wow,

1030
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:19,319
And it was absolutely amazing. Yeah. And this is actually the first

1031
01:21:19,319 --> 01:21:24,439
time I've shared it outside of that
experience. So and writing it to Calejandro.

1032
01:21:25,359 --> 01:21:28,439
Wow. Hopefully he's listening. Um, well, I don't know,

1033
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:33,640
I'm hello, hello, Oh there
he is. How do you go back?

1034
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:41,319
Wow? Yeah, sorry about that. Um, I've never Yeah,

1035
01:21:41,359 --> 01:21:45,560
my internet just had gone down and
I had to restrict the router and uh,

1036
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:50,479
I actually haven't experienced that here before, but it happens. Um,

1037
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:54,279
we actually have a caller on the
line. He was telling me a story

1038
01:21:54,319 --> 01:21:58,560
he actually sent you. Do you
want to know? And do not repeat

1039
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:03,159
the story completely, But do you
want to say hid He's back. Hello,

1040
01:22:03,199 --> 01:22:06,800
Alejandro, my name's Jay. I'm
actually from Oklahoma, but I was

1041
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:12,640
living out in Arizona in Scottsdale last
year and I sent my report into you.

1042
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,800
I didn't receive I don't think I
received anything from you, And doesn't

1043
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:17,520
mean you didn't get it, because
I'm sure you get quite a few all

1044
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:21,960
the time. However, it was
right up north Scottsdale, right there in

1045
01:22:23,039 --> 01:22:27,840
Cape Creek by the boulders, which
I'm sure you could look around and find

1046
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:30,159
that location. But I saw something. That's the night I became a belief.

1047
01:22:30,399 --> 01:22:33,840
I became a knowher instead of a
believer. In UFOs, I saw

1048
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:39,319
something absolutely amazing up there, and
it was very high in the sky and

1049
01:22:40,159 --> 01:22:45,680
really changed my whole outlook on it
on because it was it was so high

1050
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:47,479
up in the sky it went about
the length of my finger. So if

1051
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:50,279
you do the math and it say
it was seventy five percent the side of

1052
01:22:50,279 --> 01:22:56,520
a full moon, it would have
to be absolutely enormous. And the detail

1053
01:22:56,600 --> 01:23:00,640
on the craft we could see it
was basically rounded in front and the backside,

1054
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:04,439
the back end it was it was
basically it was round and looked round

1055
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:11,439
and flat, but the backside of
it was almost like Batman. It kind

1056
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:15,520
of came down to a point,
then went up into the craft, and

1057
01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:19,199
then came down into a point in
the middle, and then came down into

1058
01:23:20,279 --> 01:23:27,039
what's the best that It's hard to
really describe that shape, and I could

1059
01:23:27,199 --> 01:23:29,720
send you a photo or something,
or sending you a drawing of it.

1060
01:23:30,039 --> 01:23:33,119
However, once it disappeared in the
solid line, I mean it basically,

1061
01:23:33,359 --> 01:23:38,000
it's almost like it flew behind a
door, and so you would see you

1062
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:41,520
would see the whole craft disappear in
that line, and it was shimmering on

1063
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:45,479
the side, shimmering in front of
it, and we saw it. I

1064
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:48,000
would say it lasted about a second
and a half, but both of us

1065
01:23:48,079 --> 01:23:54,600
were looking in that same spot because
we were we were actually mapping the night

1066
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:59,960
sky towards satellites, and we were
just putting random names to the different consolation.

1067
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:04,119
Wow. So yeah, I apologize
if I didn't respond or anything.

1068
01:24:04,159 --> 01:24:10,640
I only am able to respond to
a fraction of my emails. Unfortunately,

1069
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:15,039
I would need, I think,
to hire someone full time to go through

1070
01:24:15,079 --> 01:24:18,880
all of them. But what's interesting
about your story and what I mean,

1071
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:24,000
I've got Skinwalker on the mind so
much, especially with Jeremy Corbell's movie,

1072
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:28,600
and the way you describe it,
you know, like going behind the door,

1073
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:33,159
behind the line is sort of similar
to something they described there, where

1074
01:24:33,159 --> 01:24:39,439
they felt they were seeing like a
hole in this guy to another dimension.

1075
01:24:40,039 --> 01:24:47,119
And what's interesting I'm finding these days
is that scientists, surprisingly because they can

1076
01:24:47,239 --> 01:24:53,640
be kind of odd, but because
there's all this talk in science around multiple

1077
01:24:53,680 --> 01:25:02,159
dimensions and other dimensions, scientists seemed
more readily able to accept the idea that

1078
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:11,880
we're seeing somehow holes between our dimension
and others. And they feel it seems

1079
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:16,119
like many of them like that idea
better than the extra terrestrial answer, and

1080
01:25:16,399 --> 01:25:20,600
sightings like yours, you know,
are kind of the reason that they believe

1081
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:26,399
that. Interesting. Well, I
think you missed a part that I told

1082
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:31,359
that I'd already spoken that I set
out because we'd been we'd seen some things

1083
01:25:31,359 --> 01:25:34,079
in the night sky and some orbs
in the house, that kind of thing,

1084
01:25:34,199 --> 01:25:40,720
and and this was probably about our
fourth occurrence. But I kind of

1085
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:44,000
missed them, missed some of the
other ones I would see just a look

1086
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:45,399
over a little bit too late.
But I actually set out why it was

1087
01:25:45,399 --> 01:25:48,760
still bright. We were reading dinner
outside out in the backyard, you know,

1088
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:51,560
like people do in Arizona, and
I said to my girlfriend, I

1089
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:55,079
said, I want to see something
definitive. I put it out there,

1090
01:25:55,359 --> 01:25:58,199
I put my intention and I want
to see something definitive. And then a

1091
01:25:58,239 --> 01:26:01,520
couple hours later my wish was ed. And so I don't know, this

1092
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:04,920
might be more of a lendable in
the heal thing, but it's it's putting

1093
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:12,319
that intention out there, and it's
not like this overwhelming desire to have that

1094
01:26:12,399 --> 01:26:18,319
experience. But I've been into bufology
throughout the years off and on, and

1095
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:24,079
I would say I'm fairly well versed
and hit it. And I'm former military

1096
01:26:24,079 --> 01:26:28,079
aviator, so as my girlfriend,
and so we know what we know what

1097
01:26:28,159 --> 01:26:30,840
aircraft look like that are at least
known to the public. So we're not

1098
01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:34,760
just some let somebody going oh my
god, I saw some you know it's

1099
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:42,520
it's it's from Mars or something.
So that's interesting. Now I have one

1100
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:48,399
of my sightings. We did do
at like a CCT type of protocol where

1101
01:26:48,399 --> 01:26:54,840
we're intentioning sending intention down. However, the majority of skywatches I've gone to

1102
01:26:54,920 --> 01:27:00,279
with other UFO people, people have
sent intentions out and the majority there isn't

1103
01:27:00,319 --> 01:27:05,760
something. However, one interesting sighting
I did have was with a friend.

1104
01:27:06,119 --> 01:27:09,920
She came in to move on and
she became a really good friend of mine.

1105
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:14,199
But she said I see these white
orbs all the time, and I

1106
01:27:14,279 --> 01:27:15,359
was like, you know. We
were all like yeah, sure, but

1107
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:20,479
I took her seriously because she seemed
really intelligent and we kind of hit it

1108
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:24,560
off. She was really funny,
and so she's like, we'll come on

1109
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:29,720
over and we'll hang out and we'll
see I'll show you if you know,

1110
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:32,520
we could SkyWatch, but she didn't
SkyWatch like the rest of us. You

1111
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,439
know, you SkyWatch, you go
outside and you watch the sky. No,

1112
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:40,079
she wanted to talk and we hung
out and she were just talked about

1113
01:27:40,159 --> 01:27:43,640
UFOs and stuff, and she's like, we should go outside, and I'm

1114
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:45,479
like really, and she's like yeah, I kind of get a feeling and

1115
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:50,000
I'm like all right. So we
go outside and it's we sit down on

1116
01:27:50,239 --> 01:27:56,359
these loungers that she has. It's
probably ten minutes before she's like, look,

1117
01:27:56,359 --> 01:27:58,640
there's one over there. And there
was, you know, one of

1118
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:02,880
these It was like a little white
light during the day and it faded out,

1119
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:08,159
it reappeared somewhere else, it kind
of moved and then faded out again,

1120
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:14,720
which was similar to what she had
videotaped. And she just seemed to

1121
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:20,319
be one of those people that and
she felt she had other experiences. And

1122
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:25,560
at the time I was really skeptical
with people who felt they had alien experiences,

1123
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:28,640
but especially being part of move On, I had more and more people

1124
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:33,039
come up and say, you know, and they're very timid, and luckily

1125
01:28:33,039 --> 01:28:38,319
they felt comfortable enough to share that
with me their experience. And then I

1126
01:28:38,359 --> 01:28:42,279
became friends with doctor Leo Sprinkle,
and sometimes i'd take people out there.

1127
01:28:42,279 --> 01:28:45,199
He was the only one I really
trusted because he was an actual, you

1128
01:28:45,239 --> 01:28:48,279
know, PhD. And he worked
at a university as part part of a

1129
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:56,359
he headed up part of the psychology
department. And I don't know, even

1130
01:28:56,399 --> 01:28:58,720
to this day, I don't know
what to make of that stuff, but

1131
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:02,479
it really opened my mind to who
knows. There's a lot of people that

1132
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:06,319
report, and a lot of people
say this, it's absolutely ridiculous that a

1133
01:29:06,319 --> 01:29:12,079
lot of people report seeing something off
in the far distance and as soon as

1134
01:29:12,119 --> 01:29:16,119
they see it, it moves towards
them, and you know, people especially

1135
01:29:16,119 --> 01:29:19,239
scientific minded, even in this field, are like, that's ridiculous. There's

1136
01:29:19,279 --> 01:29:24,239
no way they could have had an
effect. But why not? I mean,

1137
01:29:25,319 --> 01:29:27,920
you know, I love the Arthur
C. Clark saying, you know,

1138
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:34,000
any sufficiently advanced technology is going to
look like magic to those who don't

1139
01:29:34,079 --> 01:29:38,640
understand it. And so just because
we don't understand it doesn't mean it's not

1140
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:45,720
possible that somehow, you know,
by sending our intentions or attention in a

1141
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:50,479
certain direction, doesn't have an effect
on something that we're observing. So yeah,

1142
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:55,119
I don't know, it's it's really
interesting. Thanks for calling in.

1143
01:29:55,159 --> 01:29:59,319
I apologize I wasn't able to get
back to you, but it's fascinating.

1144
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:02,880
Sign. I love the show and
I love I love following both of your

1145
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:06,800
activities. All right, thank you, yeah, thanks again for the call.

1146
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:11,680
All right, sure, all right, bye. So we do have

1147
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:15,680
the line open. That's up on
the screen on YouTube. Anyone can call

1148
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,960
six oh three nine seven four h
three zero. Someone else had called in

1149
01:30:19,039 --> 01:30:25,479
earlier. We chatted for a bit
Matt from uh I think was North Carolina.

1150
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:30,079
I believe anyway, he wanted to
know what your thoughts were on Corey

1151
01:30:30,079 --> 01:30:33,359
Good. But we really don't have
to go there unless you wanted to talk

1152
01:30:33,359 --> 01:30:39,239
about that otherwise. I do have
another question that came in. I'll just

1153
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:43,680
very quickly say I still find it
dubious. I don't see any I personally

1154
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:48,880
don't find I see anything really substantial
that that proves that story to me,

1155
01:30:50,239 --> 01:30:56,960
And there are at least one red
flag in that the marketing aspect of his

1156
01:30:57,079 --> 01:31:01,800
website and everything. I just personally
it doesn't seem like if we really had

1157
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:06,039
a whistleblower, would they have this
you know, polished kind of website up

1158
01:31:06,039 --> 01:31:14,000
with all this information and have this
whole marketing engine rolling that to me doesn't

1159
01:31:14,039 --> 01:31:19,039
sound but I don't know, Well, that's a really good point that makes

1160
01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:25,319
I never thought of that, But
yeah, absolutely that that kind of goes

1161
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:30,319
totally against the grain of anyone that
would be supposedly, you know, secretly

1162
01:31:30,359 --> 01:31:34,960
coming out for sure. All right. The question that came in from a

1163
01:31:35,079 --> 01:31:40,880
Kerry again is do you think the
public's reaction would be blase to a major

1164
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:46,159
announcement regarding extraterrestrial life as we seem
to have such a short attention span these

1165
01:31:46,239 --> 01:31:53,000
days. Probably, And I think
that, you know, lou Elisando,

1166
01:31:53,640 --> 01:32:01,119
it feels that he ut was the
harbinger of disclosure. He believes that disclosure

1167
01:32:01,239 --> 01:32:06,760
happened when that New York Times story
came out and which is mostly based on

1168
01:32:09,199 --> 01:32:11,960
largely based on what he said,
but like I said, there were other

1169
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:17,159
sources, so other people had come
out too. He feels that was disclosure

1170
01:32:17,199 --> 01:32:24,600
of what the government has done and
knows about UFOs, and I don't know

1171
01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:29,920
if that's true. He even admits
that it's possible that there were things going

1172
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:32,319
on he was not aware of,
but he doesn't think so, just because

1173
01:32:32,319 --> 01:32:35,600
of all the pushback he got,
which kind of fits along the lines of

1174
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:40,800
John Alexander, the colonel from the
Army who says he really looked for Where's

1175
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:45,439
the secret project and didn't find any
He looked before Alexando's program. But at

1176
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:53,199
the same time, you know,
Alexander interfaced with Bigelow and helped Biglow establish

1177
01:32:53,239 --> 01:32:58,159
a lot of his investigations. And
Alexander didn't know about this Pentagon program until

1178
01:32:58,239 --> 01:33:02,119
December and he shared that with me
on my podcast, So he was an

1179
01:33:02,159 --> 01:33:06,239
insider and he didn't know. So
that's an example. There could be something

1180
01:33:06,279 --> 01:33:13,119
they didn't know, but the fact
remains that that that's it's a pretty major

1181
01:33:13,239 --> 01:33:17,720
disclosure that the government had this secret
program where they spent ten to million dollars

1182
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:24,560
investigating UFOs and the paranormal and that
part hasn't even really sunk in with people,

1183
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:28,560
and people are like, oh interesting. I mean, even the people

1184
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:30,760
I share all the details with,
you know, in the general public,

1185
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:34,800
are like, that makes sense,
you know, And so they do seem

1186
01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:40,239
to be pretty blase about that aspect. And a lot of these people are

1187
01:33:40,279 --> 01:33:45,439
assuming that means the government was investigating
aliens. Now, Alesandre says, no,

1188
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:47,720
these we don't know what they were, where they came from. But

1189
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:51,479
even those who assume it means aliens
are like, uh, yeah, I

1190
01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:56,119
figured that was the case, so
it I think you're right. I think

1191
01:33:56,159 --> 01:34:00,319
people would be pretty blase. There's
an anime like this, and it's really

1192
01:34:00,359 --> 01:34:02,680
funny because there's this one Kidden.
He's the only one that shot, you

1193
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:05,840
know that we just found out there's
aliens coming to the planet, and everybody

1194
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:11,039
else it's like eh, and they
just go on with their life. So

1195
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:15,159
yeah, maybe I think that they
may be less impactful than we think.

1196
01:34:15,279 --> 01:34:19,399
We're actually going to have a panel
regarding this with myself. Jason McClellan,

1197
01:34:20,039 --> 01:34:25,600
Richard Dolan, and Stephen Bassett at
Alien condat weekend. Oh great, wow,

1198
01:34:26,199 --> 01:34:29,279
I don't know. Did you happen
to watch the recent It's a recent

1199
01:34:29,359 --> 01:34:32,960
movie called UFO, that's the only
title of it. No, I didn't

1200
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:36,880
see that movie. I think I
had Jillian Anderson and it's right. Yeah,

1201
01:34:38,119 --> 01:34:42,520
anyway, I watched that, and
you know, it's uh, if

1202
01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:45,119
you if you follow the UFO field, you'd be thinking all the way through

1203
01:34:45,159 --> 01:34:48,840
that like, all this is ridiculous. It is ridiculous because they're making such

1204
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:54,000
a big deal and and chasing this
guy down just for you know, some

1205
01:34:54,079 --> 01:34:58,399
information, mathematical information on the UFO
and all that. And so, you

1206
01:34:58,399 --> 01:35:00,840
know, I don't want to give
the movie away for anyone that hasn't watched

1207
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:03,439
it, but basically, the only
way the whole thing ties in and makes

1208
01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:09,479
sense is the very end. But
until that time, someone in the field

1209
01:35:09,479 --> 01:35:12,239
like you or me would be just
thinking, oh my god, that's way

1210
01:35:12,279 --> 01:35:15,000
overboard, way overboard. And then
at the very end it makes it makes

1211
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:19,000
total sense. But da that.
Yeah, it was pretty good. It

1212
01:35:19,039 --> 01:35:24,800
was pretty good. Semi thumbs up. But you know, the the interesting

1213
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:28,600
part about it is, you know, this kid is like totally fascinated,

1214
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:31,079
totally into it, like this is
really, you know, the most amazing

1215
01:35:31,119 --> 01:35:34,199
thing. But everyone around him is
like, you know, like okay,

1216
01:35:34,319 --> 01:35:41,359
enough enough. But I do think, you know, the Pentagon thing was

1217
01:35:42,119 --> 01:35:45,560
You're right, it's not saying aliens
per se, but if it actually came

1218
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:50,600
out that we had one hundred percent
evidence that there's intelligent life out there,

1219
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:56,079
I think I think it's a big
deal. But how many other people may

1220
01:35:56,119 --> 01:35:59,399
not. You know, the average
person out there that doesn't really care that

1221
01:35:59,479 --> 01:36:01,960
much about you know, space in
general or anything else, you know,

1222
01:36:02,159 --> 01:36:08,000
may just think, now, so
what won't change anything. I may be

1223
01:36:08,039 --> 01:36:11,520
a nerd. I flipped about the
New York Times story. I mean I

1224
01:36:11,560 --> 01:36:15,560
thought that was a big deal,
and even to the start when Tom announced

1225
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:17,840
that and everything, all the people
he was talking to, um, I

1226
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:20,640
thought that was a big deal.
To me, that was one of the

1227
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:26,720
most exciting things ever to happen.
But even people in this field, they're

1228
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:31,399
like, m I know, well, it is something, and there is

1229
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:36,239
so much news of I mean,
there's so much information coming at us all

1230
01:36:36,279 --> 01:36:39,960
the time, and there's more and
more and more, and then you know,

1231
01:36:40,119 --> 01:36:43,640
everyone has a smartphone, and there's
all types of you know, info

1232
01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:48,720
coming at who, and there's that
just makes everyone's attention span in general short.

1233
01:36:48,840 --> 01:36:53,119
And you know the news, if
you're watching the news over the last

1234
01:36:53,159 --> 01:36:56,000
few years, you know, it's
like so much coming in all at once,

1235
01:36:56,359 --> 01:37:00,000
and then a major story is like
nothing I could see, you know,

1236
01:37:00,039 --> 01:37:03,399
a story with like a millennial strip
on their phone. There they are

1237
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:08,600
waiting for the subway, they get
in the subway, they sit down,

1238
01:37:09,520 --> 01:37:12,319
they look up and it's an alien
sitting next to him, and they're like,

1239
01:37:13,079 --> 01:37:17,720
figures, maybe, yeah, yeah, can I do a Sophie?

1240
01:37:20,119 --> 01:37:26,239
Okay, Another question came in,
who do you consider an unsung hero in

1241
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:32,920
the field of uthology today? You
know, some of my biggest heroes,

1242
01:37:33,039 --> 01:37:35,600
I guess, I would say,
and I would put it that way.

1243
01:37:36,039 --> 01:37:41,479
Nick Pope, I think is one
I think that you know with these people

1244
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:46,840
like Nick Pope, um, he
didn't imagine you're working for the government,

1245
01:37:47,039 --> 01:37:53,479
the Ministry of Defense or in our
case said the Defense Department, kind of

1246
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:57,039
like Lui Lisando. Lui Lisando is
a new Nick Pope who is also a

1247
01:37:57,039 --> 01:38:00,319
hero of mine. And you know, all of a sudden you get put

1248
01:38:00,319 --> 01:38:02,119
on this UFO project. And you're
like, oh, this is stupid,

1249
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:06,119
and you know, you go through
your paces even if you're like, wow,

1250
01:38:06,159 --> 01:38:11,439
there's some real stuff here, would
you be willing would you want to

1251
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:15,760
like share that information and damage your
friendships or potentially with your friends and your

1252
01:38:15,800 --> 01:38:21,279
colleagues. You know. I think
that's really brave of these guys to come

1253
01:38:21,279 --> 01:38:27,720
out and to share this and to
really push this topic forward. So I'm

1254
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,399
really into them. Some of the
other people, of course, you know

1255
01:38:31,119 --> 01:38:36,359
Heienech and Jacques Vallet is his partner. Jacques Vallet, for instance, is

1256
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:44,000
a scientist, he's a venture capitalist. He works in the highest circle,

1257
01:38:44,199 --> 01:38:47,359
the highest echelons, much like a
lot of the people with Two the Stars.

1258
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:51,920
You know, Chris Mellon, who's
part of the Mellon family. Yeah,

1259
01:38:53,319 --> 01:38:55,680
and also what you had him on
the show and you're one of the

1260
01:38:56,199 --> 01:39:04,039
few people and he uh, you
know, worked at them, you know,

1261
01:39:04,319 --> 01:39:10,000
for the White House and all of
these things. Yeah, Department of

1262
01:39:10,039 --> 01:39:14,520
Defense, all of these people who
put their reputations on the line, and

1263
01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:19,279
I think it's difficult for some of
us to kind of quantify or understand what

1264
01:39:19,399 --> 01:39:24,560
a big deal that is. Because
the higher you get, especially in sciences,

1265
01:39:24,600 --> 01:39:30,600
and things like that. The more
you know your reputation is really important

1266
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:33,680
that you have to guard it in
order to get funding or in order to

1267
01:39:33,720 --> 01:39:38,640
get you know, your projects pushed
through, and these things to happen.

1268
01:39:39,159 --> 01:39:43,479
And so it's really brave of these
people Bigelow, It's really brave of them.

1269
01:39:44,119 --> 01:39:48,039
The people who have a lot are
putting more on the line, and

1270
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:56,520
I really admire them. And then
I'm also a humongous fan of George Knapp,

1271
01:39:57,079 --> 01:40:00,039
of course, being a journalist,
He's won tons of awards. I

1272
01:40:00,079 --> 01:40:05,399
love the way he tells stories.
He tells stories in a unique but concise

1273
01:40:05,960 --> 01:40:13,600
and entertaining, an educational, informative
way. And he's a big hero of

1274
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:16,840
mine. I think he's great.
So yeah, those are those are some

1275
01:40:16,920 --> 01:40:21,560
of my heroes. Leslie Kane is
a huge hero of mine. I mean,

1276
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:29,880
she's typically her stories gets so much
attention because she is very, very

1277
01:40:30,039 --> 01:40:33,039
very careful, yea more so than
a lot of these guys who have more

1278
01:40:33,039 --> 01:40:40,399
on the line about the credibility factor
because she and it shows it pays off.

1279
01:40:40,399 --> 01:40:45,560
Her book is a New York Times
bestseller. The story she writes get

1280
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:49,000
tons of attention, including the New
York Times story that she was one of

1281
01:40:49,039 --> 01:40:54,279
the authors of, so she's definitely
another big fan of mine. And I

1282
01:40:54,319 --> 01:40:59,000
do appreciate a lot of the other
fringe people who are considered fringe, And

1283
01:40:59,199 --> 01:41:04,079
even in the Uffield someone mentioned Linna
Moulton Howe, which certainly is I would

1284
01:41:04,079 --> 01:41:08,199
consider on the fringe in and I
don't mean that in a bad way at

1285
01:41:08,239 --> 01:41:12,840
all, but for instance, I
was just you know, there's information about

1286
01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:17,399
this material that To the Stars is
analyzing, and the best history on that

1287
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:21,680
material, I think is at Linda
House site. So she's done, you

1288
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:28,600
know, a tremendous amount of work
out there. So even if I don't

1289
01:41:29,079 --> 01:41:31,359
I don't totally agree with anybody,
not George knapped on to anybody, and

1290
01:41:31,399 --> 01:41:35,439
they don't agree totally with me.
Nobody two people totally agree on everything.

1291
01:41:36,600 --> 01:41:41,760
But we need to respect each other
and respect all of our contributions, and

1292
01:41:43,399 --> 01:41:46,880
I try to, and I really
truly do respect the contributions of a lot

1293
01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:54,000
of people out there in this field
who are genuinely looking for information to share

1294
01:41:54,000 --> 01:42:00,600
with the public. So where do
you think uthology is heading at this point?

1295
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:05,199
Gapology? I think it's in a
really kind of strange crossroad to night

1296
01:42:05,279 --> 01:42:10,760
now personally, I feel I feel
there's this tug. There's this tug.

1297
01:42:10,880 --> 01:42:19,000
Two. We have an unusual and
unprecedented opportunity right now to really engage and

1298
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:30,159
interact with and effectively kind of infiltrate
the mainstream in science and in media at

1299
01:42:30,319 --> 01:42:36,159
very many levels in government. And
this is all happening at the same time

1300
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:45,319
there are there speculation and strongly held
world views that are kind of taking people

1301
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:51,039
in another direction, and that even
includes religion. George Napp and Louise Elizando

1302
01:42:51,039 --> 01:42:57,399
have written about how religious factions inside
of the government were really responsible because they

1303
01:42:57,439 --> 01:43:02,439
thought UFOs in paranormal would demonih for
getting a lot of that funding taken away.

1304
01:43:02,479 --> 01:43:06,720
In fact, Louis Elzando said his
predecessor his career was ruined by these

1305
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:11,399
people, even though some of these
people were his really close friends. So

1306
01:43:11,439 --> 01:43:15,439
I think that's kind of the crossroads
were at. And I'm certainly hitching my

1307
01:43:16,399 --> 01:43:21,960
wagon on this mainstream side, because
you know, mainstream science and journalism is

1308
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:26,800
where I'm at, and I love
it and I think it's it's it's really

1309
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:33,680
fun for me to be able to
interview UM an astronaut like Scott Kelly,

1310
01:43:34,600 --> 01:43:39,199
you know, probably the most famous
astronaut at this moment, and and to

1311
01:43:39,239 --> 01:43:41,520
be able to bring up UFOs with
him, and I can say, well,

1312
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:44,159
the Pentagon has this UFO program.
What do you think of that?

1313
01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:47,439
You know, it's it's a unique
opportunity where I can you know, bring

1314
01:43:47,479 --> 01:43:54,439
these interests and not feel as you
know, scared or worried about doing that.

1315
01:43:54,600 --> 01:43:59,399
And it this conversation is reaching other
levels. I think some people kind

1316
01:43:59,399 --> 01:44:02,119
of liked, you know, being
a Nissan having our own thing. But

1317
01:44:02,199 --> 01:44:08,079
I'm really loving and I know George
Knapp has really expressed this that he is

1318
01:44:08,319 --> 01:44:14,840
basking in this um new found interest
among the general public into this topic and

1319
01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:18,920
a credible eye being put to all
of this. UM and I agree with

1320
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:24,319
that. It's a It's an incredible
time, not just for UFOs but for

1321
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:28,760
space in general. We may be
going to Mars within the next ten years.

1322
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:33,399
We may have space tourism happening as
soon as next year. Um.

1323
01:44:33,640 --> 01:44:36,960
And these are all some of the
stuff I write about, and I think

1324
01:44:36,960 --> 01:44:43,159
this is a really exciting time.
And yeah, and so it's really fun

1325
01:44:43,199 --> 01:44:46,880
to share all of this. So
now you're on you're a blogger on dennif

1326
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:51,119
Geeks which is one of the one
of the top I forget how many.

1327
01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:56,640
I'm a writer, not a blogger
there, yeah, writer, I'm sorry,

1328
01:44:56,920 --> 01:45:02,039
you're a journalist. Yeah, So
how how has that? How are

1329
01:45:02,079 --> 01:45:06,039
they receiving your articles? I know, you know some of them are space

1330
01:45:06,079 --> 01:45:11,640
and stop doing that. Some of
them were space relating and stuff like that.

1331
01:45:11,680 --> 01:45:15,560
But how are they handling the UFO
articles over there? Do they get

1332
01:45:15,680 --> 01:45:21,680
some good reads? They do?
My first UFO article got huge reads.

1333
01:45:21,720 --> 01:45:28,279
I think Mike's got Kelly one.
Asking them about UFOs and aliens was a

1334
01:45:28,399 --> 01:45:31,800
really big one for them, which
is great because I know that even though

1335
01:45:31,800 --> 01:45:36,319
they write about sci fi entertainment,
that's their main deal, that they were

1336
01:45:36,319 --> 01:45:41,479
a little hesitant to kind of dip
their toes in the in the UFO water.

1337
01:45:42,560 --> 01:45:46,239
But and I think that some of
it was influenced, at least by

1338
01:45:46,359 --> 01:45:51,520
those of the more are worried about
it was well, the the to the

1339
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:56,399
to the star stuff. And also
this new History Channel show coming up,

1340
01:45:56,439 --> 01:45:59,680
Project Blue Book, so that's helped
UM. In fact, I'm gonna be

1341
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:03,560
able to watch the first couple episodes
of this uh next week. There's a

1342
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:10,000
special History Channel pre screening UM In
fact, if you live in Arizona,

1343
01:46:10,640 --> 01:46:14,399
email Phoenix, move on or myself
trying to get a hold of us and

1344
01:46:14,399 --> 01:46:18,439
we can probably get you into a
screening. Um and uh, because there's

1345
01:46:18,520 --> 01:46:21,760
they're trying to they're telling us and
bite whoever we want. Wow. I

1346
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:27,319
just got an email from Sam Moronto, our friend, and uh, Chicago.

1347
01:46:27,520 --> 01:46:29,359
He was saying, are you going
to come? I go out to

1348
01:46:29,439 --> 01:46:31,079
Chicago a bit here and there,
and he said, have you happened to

1349
01:46:31,119 --> 01:46:34,720
be here on the fourteenth, And
so they're doing a screening out there as

1350
01:46:34,760 --> 01:46:40,760
well, So that's really exciting.
That's helped. But there are also some

1351
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:45,319
people at Den of Geek that are
very very enthusiastic about this topic. So

1352
01:46:45,800 --> 01:46:51,079
they're loving it too. So it's
uh, it's been Um, it's been

1353
01:46:51,119 --> 01:46:55,800
really great. They like it.
But of course what's funny And I get

1354
01:46:55,840 --> 01:46:59,880
more scrutiny at Den of Geek than
I do did at Huffington Post. Not

1355
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:01,199
to say that they're saying, oh, you can't print this, but they're

1356
01:47:01,239 --> 01:47:05,039
saying, you know, they want
to make sure that it's very credible.

1357
01:47:05,159 --> 01:47:09,920
Essentially, they don't want their reputation
smirched. They don't want to look like

1358
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:13,720
a tabloid, so I have to
even be more careful. So I don't

1359
01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:17,159
write as many UFO stories because of
that, But that allows me the opportunity

1360
01:47:17,199 --> 01:47:23,720
to write a lot more space stories. And I love space stories right right.

1361
01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:29,560
I've always I've had a fascination of
myself. Do you think do you

1362
01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:32,520
think in recent years, you know, people talk about there hasn't been any

1363
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:38,119
really big like UFO story, But
when it comes to like the Nimitz do

1364
01:47:38,359 --> 01:47:43,119
the Nimitz ufo? Do you think
that is? You know? And I

1365
01:47:43,119 --> 01:47:45,640
think it's an incredible story, But
what are your thoughts on that as far

1366
01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:48,399
as it's more or less a newer
UFO story. I know it's two thousand

1367
01:47:48,439 --> 01:47:53,119
and four, but it's two thousand
and four. But we only we had

1368
01:47:53,359 --> 01:47:59,600
little bits and pieces of information that
we were dripped out for many years,

1369
01:48:00,199 --> 01:48:04,039
and now we've gotten a whole motherload
of well I shouldn't say the motherload,

1370
01:48:04,079 --> 01:48:06,960
it feels like the motherload, because
it's a lot more than we've had before,

1371
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:11,319
and a lot more than we've had
for a lot of UFO cases.

1372
01:48:11,600 --> 01:48:15,039
Although we know, and Lewis even
said this at Lizando, that there's a

1373
01:48:15,159 --> 01:48:20,560
lot more information that is still locked
up on government files about this case and

1374
01:48:20,840 --> 01:48:26,760
other similar cases. You know,
he alludes to that there are a lot

1375
01:48:26,800 --> 01:48:31,199
of cases like the Nimics, but
they're just not releasing that information and he's

1376
01:48:31,239 --> 01:48:36,079
not at liberty to share. So
I love the Nimit. I think the

1377
01:48:36,199 --> 01:48:43,600
Nimitz case is extraordinary. We have
radar, we have, and then we

1378
01:48:43,720 --> 01:48:50,760
have witnesses observations. We have a
tiny bit of video and the video,

1379
01:48:51,479 --> 01:48:57,279
yeah, and tiny bit of video, but the witness testimony when it comes

1380
01:48:57,279 --> 01:49:00,920
to like a court of law,
there's a big difference between a regular witness

1381
01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:04,800
and an expert witness, and in
this case, we really have expert witnesses.

1382
01:49:04,840 --> 01:49:09,399
Even in science, that's important.
The person who asked earlier, you

1383
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:12,920
would it be a big deal if
a scientist was abducted. It would be

1384
01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:16,079
a much huger deal it would be
if Carl Sagan was abducted. He was

1385
01:49:16,199 --> 01:49:24,439
so extremely well respected that if he
shared his experience, it certainly would convince

1386
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:29,119
a lot of people, a lot
of the really hardened skeptics know, but

1387
01:49:29,479 --> 01:49:33,680
that I think would be the minority. So when we have David Fraber,

1388
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:39,159
the commander of this wing, coming
onto CNN, Fox News, all of

1389
01:49:39,199 --> 01:49:44,000
them and talking about his experiences.
Yeah, I think that that is a

1390
01:49:44,319 --> 01:49:47,199
very big deal. Really. Phoenix
Lights is very well known out here in

1391
01:49:47,239 --> 01:49:51,600
Arizona and across the world, and
Roswell of course it is well known.

1392
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:58,720
But we have better data and information
on the Nimics case than any of the

1393
01:49:58,720 --> 01:50:02,840
most famous cases really except for maybe
Randels him because we have so many military

1394
01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:08,119
witnesses in that case as well.
But and you know, some radar data

1395
01:50:08,159 --> 01:50:12,760
and everything too. So uh,
yeah, I think Nimitz is an extraordinary

1396
01:50:12,840 --> 01:50:15,319
and very important case. We only
have a couple of minutes left, just

1397
01:50:15,359 --> 01:50:18,279
over a been and a half or
so. But I wanted to uh,

1398
01:50:19,439 --> 01:50:23,720
I mean, well, what you
just said, Um, they probably have

1399
01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:28,000
cases more, more cases like the
Nimits. Wouldn't that be so interesting to

1400
01:50:28,039 --> 01:50:31,000
have the inside story? Wouldn't that
be so interesting to know what these people

1401
01:50:31,039 --> 01:50:34,960
know? Yeah? And I think
when I get the sense, you know,

1402
01:50:35,039 --> 01:50:40,159
when when especially with your talking face
to face with Louise and he's kind

1403
01:50:40,159 --> 01:50:44,720
of relaxed that he wants to share
so badly, but he's just got to

1404
01:50:44,800 --> 01:50:46,399
take a breath once in a while, and he's like, oh man,

1405
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:50,079
he says, brother, brother,
if you knew, oh brother, because

1406
01:50:50,079 --> 01:50:54,319
he likes that term, you know, brother. Military guys use that a

1407
01:50:54,319 --> 01:51:00,199
lot, so um, they're a
band of brothers. So yeah, I

1408
01:51:00,199 --> 01:51:02,960
I would love to know. Even
Nick Pope passed some stuff that he can't

1409
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:09,680
share due to his oath of secrecy
to the UK government. One question I

1410
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:13,439
asked is have you ever briefed the
royals on any of this? And he

1411
01:51:13,479 --> 01:51:16,560
said, I'm not at liberty to
talk about that. Isn't that something?

1412
01:51:17,239 --> 01:51:23,359
Yeah, yeah, that's like saying
yes exactly. I said, well,

1413
01:51:23,399 --> 01:51:26,159
you kind of answered my question and
he said, well, take it as

1414
01:51:26,199 --> 01:51:29,439
you do you wish. Yeah,
yeah, Alejandro. So we got just

1415
01:51:29,479 --> 01:51:32,520
like a minute here. Can you
quickly talk about what you do on Thursday

1416
01:51:32,600 --> 01:51:39,319
nights? Oh? Yeah, Thursday. I do UFOs seriously live, so

1417
01:51:39,359 --> 01:51:42,680
I talk about essentially the week.
I talked about what I've written about,

1418
01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:45,079
including some of the space stuff and
everything, and then I also go over

1419
01:51:45,119 --> 01:51:48,319
the news, the UFO News of
the week, and so we go story

1420
01:51:48,359 --> 01:51:51,960
by story and you know, some
people will know it open minds. I

1421
01:51:53,039 --> 01:51:56,000
used to do daily UFO headlines,
don't have time for that, so I

1422
01:51:56,079 --> 01:51:59,760
do the weekly. But what's fascinating
and people don't realize is there's a lot

1423
01:51:59,800 --> 01:52:03,640
of UPO news every single week,
always have a lot. In fact,

1424
01:52:03,680 --> 01:52:08,760
I have a hard time keeping the
show down to an hour. It's even

1425
01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:12,439
gone up to you know, two
hours at times. But it's a lot

1426
01:52:12,439 --> 01:52:15,359
of fun. And then I also
answer questions in the chat like you do

1427
01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:17,600
here. Yeah, yeah, I've
joined in a couple of times over there.

1428
01:52:17,600 --> 01:52:19,399
It's a lot of fun. All
one hundred, Thanks so much.

1429
01:52:19,399 --> 01:52:24,319
We're out of time, my pleasure. Always a lot of fun talking to

1430
01:52:24,359 --> 01:52:27,119
you. Thanks man, you too, all right, and we'll talk to

1431
01:52:27,159 --> 01:52:30,399
you next week on the regular news
and have next weekend. Yeah, I'll

1432
01:52:30,439 --> 01:52:33,600
be back to the news dude,
all right, have a great time this

1433
01:52:33,640 --> 01:52:38,720
weekend. Thanks man. All right, okay, everyone, so that's it

1434
01:52:38,840 --> 01:52:42,560
for the show. Thanks so much
for listening. We'll be back next week

1435
01:52:42,640 --> 01:52:46,840
with Ray Stanford. Should be an
interesting show. And again, thanks so

1436
01:52:46,920 --> 01:52:51,079
much for listening. I really appreciate
it. And remember to keep your eyes

1437
01:52:51,479 --> 01:52:53,119
to the sky.