What is rack alacket hard anopsis? I am damp Alley coming at you with
a semi immediate Rudy Gobert trade reactions. That just happened. That was a
that was a thing. Apparently. I did not see Rudy Gobert ending up
in any way, shape or form with the Timberwolves. We knew that they
were kind of kicking the tires on pairing Towns with a big, which again
I think it's fine. He's played with a big in the past. Towns
gives you that maaluability, so you certainly have the luxury to go ahead and
try this out. It was just a stark opportunity cost excuse me, to
get my duction a row here, and I think that's where we begin.
Let's just go over the trade details very quickly. So they're gonna give up.
The Wolves get Rudy Gobert straight out has about four years one seventy left
on his deal. The Jazz are getting four unprotected or four three unprotected first
round picks twenty twenty three, twenty five, twenty twenty seven. They are
also going to get Minnesota's twenty twenty nine top five protected first In addition,
they get a twenty twenty six pick swap, which is a fairly big deal
here as well. So that's that's a lot that is just absolutely monstrous,
and they're not done. They got Walker Kessler, he was drafted twenty second
overall. Just now. They also get Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverly's expiring contract,
Jared Vanderbilt two years left on his deal, he was very good defensively
last year, Super team friendly contract right now, and then Leandro Balermo.
The dollar for dollar matchup here is just basically even, and so the Wolves
they don't really get any closer less I'm mistaken here too, the tax line
or anything along along those lines. What they can do now is still use
the biannual. They used most of their mid level. I believe they're all
of it on Kyle Anderson. Not having Vanderbilt there I think makes the Kyle
Anderson fit even better. You have him and Jaden McDaniels. So that is
something to consider. This is about two teams. Let's just start. We're
gonna start to Timberwolves because they're the team that's taking a huge swing here.
I didn't think Rudy Gobert was going to go for this much. I mean,
you're giving up essentially control over five of your first round picks, but
four of your picks for sure, and trading out draft picks as far as
twenty twenty nine. I think I mentioned this on another pod. You definitely
were emboldened to make a move like this once Karl Anthony Town signed his five
year extension. This is just a lot to invest in two bigs in today's
NBA, and it's not I'm not mister you know has to be small ball.
Everyone needs to be a force basing five. Karl Anthony Town's the beauty
of him is this ken absolutely positive worked and I think, I honestly think
during the regular season it's probably going to be amazing. I could see the
Wolves having a top ten defense, end offense, maybe even better both ways
there as well. I mean just having Kyle Anderson Jane McDaniels on your team
that's going to help you with on the perimeter defensively. Anthony Edwards got better
there as well, and then Rudy Gobert just behind them. I'm not as
worried about Karl Anthony Town's defending fours or wherever they're gonna stash him. He
probably struggled most as that primary guy. If you're going to force him to
go after someone who can set a bunch of screens, roll hard to the
basket, play super physical Ruegobert, or if you're asking Karl Anthony Towns to
make all these difficult decisions away from the ball of when to rotate to go
after guys who are attacking the lane. Rugobart's just better built to do that.
And I think he's received a pretty shitty knock when it comes to oh,
he gets played off the court or he's not switchable enough, he just
didn't have help in front of him in Utah. I think even the base
that's in front of him in Minnesota is already better than what he had in
Utah. Ask you years, like I mentioned, Kyle Anderson, Jane McDaniels,
and even just Anthony Edwards to have that type of defensive playmaker that the
Jazz really just didn't have. So I'm actually not concerned about the fit defensively
that much. I think Towns will be able to be on shooters, and
I still think there are a lot of four spots in today's NBA where that
person isn't It's not that that person isn't responsible for anything but the role.
Their role is not going to be just as expansive. And I'm sorry,
I'm reading a comment that came through. I'll throw those up on the board
if you have questions and you're straggling in here, if you're free to throw
them at me. So I'm actually like, I'm okay with that. And
then when you're looking at the offensive side of the ball, Karl Anthony Towns,
this is why he's amazing. He's going to space the floor. He
can put the ball on the floor. He can work out the post if
you want him to, but he doesn't need to. And that's going to
allow you to let Rudy Gobert be used as the primary screener and a lot
of actions. I wouldn't be surprised if we're just going to see dual big
pick and rolls at some point with Towns, maybe as the ball hand I
think he's improved both as the ball handler at a pastor that much to fuck
it, try it. Rudy Gobert is still catching lobs like from Anthony Edwards.
I don't know what this means for D'Angelo Russell. That would be something
to consider but there is a pathway to where if the you know, the
Wolves are willing to pay for this team. I don't know about moving forward,
but next season you don't have to move De'angelo Russell. Now, I
know you want to turn some of the keys over, maybe to Anthy Edwards.
He's earned that right. But we know de loo is super close with
Towns, and I think that matters. This was that's the Towns is giving
you two luxuries here that I don't think I've seen enough about. He signed
his extension, so you were emboldened to make this type of play without having
to worry about his future. And the fact that he's so functionally malleable,
appliable on offense, and just so dominant that allows you to go after the
Rudy Gobert acquisition, where I start to wonder, or at least curious.
It's not morbidly curious. I'm more so fascinated by what's going to happen here.
Just the money that's not just but one of them. That's a lot
to allocate to the front court. Right now, in the final year of
Rudy go Bears deal, which is two thousan twenty four, two twenty five
or is that two Thy twenty five two Thou twenty six. I'm sorry,
you're gonna be paying about one hundred million dollars to him and Karl Anthony Towns.
That's just a lot to allocate to two players in general, and when
they're both sort of in your front court. I'm curious to see how that
impacts their approach to team building from here out. You definitely want to have
as many just like switchable defender types and in front of them, and then
surround them by three point shooting and a capable ball handler. You already have
a lot of that in place. I think you could stand to get more
of that. Patrick says, with the picks given, Minnesota should have been
able to move off the Delo contract. I don't actually think the Dealo contract
is a problem, Patrick. It's it's an expiring deal, and he was,
you know, not always great in the postseason last year. But I
thought he was actually really good for Minnesota overall, and that he was toggling
between sort of two different offensive existences in a good way last year. So
and they still need Look, I love Anthy words. I think he is
going to eventually be the the engine that drives Minnesota's offense. At the same
time, like, if you're Minnesota, you want to still have the primary
playmaking type on this It wasn't gonna be Patrick Beverley if that was the alternative.
You have a secondary guy in Kyle Anderson, and now you have D'Angel
Russells, so he's still really important. Note to what you're gonna do,
and I just as a as an expiring contract, I don't have an issue
with them keeping him. Paul. I'm gonna get to your question shortly when
we get to the Jazz, but to finish up on them or continue on
with the Wolves, So there's there's that money. What does that mean?
Are they less likely to keep dealing now beyond this season into this season,
through the season, but definitely after next season. I do think you probably
look at this and you have Edwards and Delo. Would be nice to have
a different type of of playmaker there if you're Minnesota as well, So that
is something monitor And then the other thing is just the playoffs. Defensively,
that's where it could get rough, where opponents are going to be better and
they're also going to be have more time to come up with schemes. Where
you can kind of go after them and attack them. That could be where
you can't really play Karnalthy Towns and Rudy Gobert together down the stretch of games
where teams are maybe looking to downsize drastically to see if they're gonna mismatch you.
They're not going to go away from their lineup or substitution patterns, you
know, in a regular season game in February on the second out of a
back to back, but in a playoff series, assuming the Wolves are going
to get there, that's something you absolutely have to worry about. Ken Karl
Anthony Towns defend Furs and then even bigger question what are team's gonna do with
Gobert on offense? And I saw Matt Moore of Action Network point this out
on Twitter. Do you have the guts the gall to bench Rigobert down the
stretch of tight games. It's not a Rudy Gobert ego thing, though it
could be. It's you have a ship ton of money tied up in this
player. Are you willing to make that call if it's best to have Karl
Anthony Towns as your loan? Big we're getting ahead of ourselves there, but
I think there's a pathway to this fit being dominant, and especially during the
regular season. Like I said, it didn't surprise me if and I might
even be putting. I don't know what the ceiling is, but it feels
like a sixtieth percentile outcome on this team next year, if the current personnel
kind of sticks and they remain healthy. Is a top ten defense with a
top ten offense, and that's where you want to be. Overall, I
think you don't have to worry about much. From the tim Worse perspective.
The players you gave up. Beasley might have been he had a rough year
last year, still sort of valuable spacing. I'm not a huge proponent of
Patrick Beverley. He was definitely a culture tone setter there, but Tim Connolly
clearly didn't give a fuck and he just personally he look. I hope Timberwolves
fans are man. Patrick Beverley just annoys the hell out of me. Still,
the players they gave up, just Jared Vanderbilt was really good, but
between Kyle Anderson and Rigobert, like you've made up for that now and you
were never gonna play I don't even think you wanted to play Jared Vanderbilt and
Kyle Anderson together, so and Jared Vanderbilt functioned like a center on offense last
year. You could point to the time that Kat spent with Taj Gibson as
well. He can play on off It's not it's not going to be a
problem on offense. If anything, the Timberwolves get a little bit better depending
on how you feel about their perimeter talent. Just because Rudy Gobert is one
of the most devastating screeners and lob catchers in b MBA. I don't know
what's going to happen. How many screens is he like? Well, I
think the offense is just going to be fine, and if anything, I
feel like they have a higher ceiling maybe on defense than offense now, just
because you have Rudy who's like a system unto himself and just anything from the
you know, free throw line below he just can take care of and that
frees you up to do a whole bunch of different aggressive stuff on the perimeter.
And he's also just has more guys who are going to be active and
can be active than he did in Utah last season. So I think that
that's gonna end up being a home run for them. I get a little
bit, you know, could the Timberwolves now use more shooting? How much
are they playing Kyle Anderson together with Rudy Gobert. Can Jane McDaniels even hit
a higher and even a higher cup of his threes but shoot them in a
higher volume? Those are just you take those concerns a vacuum, but weighed
against the opportunity cost of all those picks. It's a risk. I respect
it. I don't necessarily indorse. It's nothing that I don't endorse it.
I don't think this was a gross mistake right now, but it has the
potential to really go belly up. And if I were the Timberwolves, we
don't know how accessible this was. I probably would have preferred to dip my
toe into these waters by saying, like, hey, can we get a
Miles Turner and try him next to Karl Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobert. Better
player overall, much better player, transcendent defender. I think Turner doesn't receive
enough credit for we know he was m protection, but I think he's better
out in space when you look at his mobility than people have talked about offensively,
He's just as limited, maybe more limited, just because do you trust
him as a screener and a roller as much as Gobert? No, you
trust him to shoot threes, and that's really about it. You don't want
to see him put the ball on the floor, just like you don't want
to see or post up, just like you don't want to see Rudy Gobert
put the ball on the floor or really post up. Wellam Verlaine, if
I'm it's sorry, he says. Kyle Anderson already improved the offensive ceiling,
especially with some very bad play decisions we have seen in the playoff round against
Memphis. Yeah, definitely hurts their helps their turnover issues for sure. I
just from a spacing perspective, I think they've downgraded here overall. But we'll
see they have the rest of their roster and kind of figure out and they're
still they can use the bi annual too, and there might be some shooting
floating around out there that would be This would be a fun as hell TJ.
Warrantine if he is healthy. So again, I don't I don't think
this was a bad trade. It has the potential to go belly up I'm
more risk averse, though, and I know you need to take big swings.
I just wonder if there was sort of another It's not because karl anthy
Towns and Miles Turner would both shoot threes. Using them as an example,
if you said that they traded for Steven Adams just because of the shorter term
investment on the contract, or a yaka Peardle who has one year left,
let's deal with the Spurs. I don't know how accessible those players were to
them. And maybe look, Tim Connolly is the guy who drafted Rudy Gobert.
Maybe you just wanted to go after him. If that's his guy,
that's his guy. If you really believe us in this, it's it's not
a bad move. It's not hard to understand. I'm just more risk averse
to where I might have considered or more heavily explored the lesser alternatives just to
see, like how it looks on defense. But maybe you just trust Gobert's
defense that much and we're going to see how that works out from here.
If you have any other questions about the wolves implications of this, feel free
to hit us in the chat really well, not really quickly. I want
to give them their due time. I gave like ten plus minutes to the
Timberwolves. Here, Paul Freed asked, how far has you tat dropped in
the defensive rankings with a rookie head coach at, No Gobert, no Royce
O'Neil either. I'll just point out he was not great last year, but
again put him in like a more Oh you said that, Paul, I
apologize that. I mean to correct you there, but Royce O'Neil was still
good. I think that Brooklyn, if they keep him, actually did quite
well with that trade. I'm gonna say, like, is this we have
to see what the rest of these moves are. But when you look at
the Jazz roster right now, their best defender is Jared Vanderbilt and then maybe
Patrick Beverley in that order. So yeah, their defense is not going to
be great. We have to see what other moves they make. This is
not going to be the the only move we see from them. I'd be
I'd be shocked. Let's put it this way. So they struggled and when
you even look, they were if you going by I don't like doing this
comparison, but they were the best defense in the league with Gobert on the
court, and yet you still finish barely in the top ten ninth overall and
points allowed per possession, per cleaning the glass. I would argue, if
they are outside the bottom ten right now without any like huge changes, uh,
they've overachieved just with just with that personnel. I mean, just between
Conley slipping Donovan Mitchell, does he make a does he make a leap on
defense after having that might have been the worst defensive season of his career this
past season, to the point where it's like you were watching Devin Booker the
entire time, and that's a fun debate fans of hat or maybe a contentious
one, and they're just like, No, Devin Booker is a much better
defender. Now. I'm if the Jazz are better than bottom ten in defensive
rating, they've overachieved with this person. Maybe they make other moves or Jared
Vanderbilt turns into his own defensive Player of the Year candidate. Quickly to segue
back to the timber Wolves, Christian says, I think Malik is the biggest
loss, but there should be able to find shooters out there. Kyle Anderson's
combination of Vanderbilt and Beverly better skill, they can guard the one to four.
I don't love that comparison just because there's Kyle Anderson's a better passer than
Patrick Beverley, I think, and even just a better decision maker. Patrick
Beverley is sort of if you wanted some situational driving and spot up shooting,
but he has the same when you're looking at the positional scope, like,
yeah, I could see a little comparison to Vanderbilt, but Vanderbilt's like if
caffeine took bodily form. That is the way that Jared Vanderbilt plays for the
Jazz. Though Wode said, or it's been reported they plan to rebuild a
retool, whatever the fuck they're calling it. I don't care about the orbags
there around Donovan Mitchell. I have been on the record and I would still
maintain it doesn't make sense for Donovan Mitchell to request a trade. He has
so much time left on his contract that you're taking any leverage you have completely
out of your hands. I think next summers at the earliest that he could
do that. And if you're him, you didn't like Rudy Gobert to begin
with, and maybe you're a little bit more intrigued of kind of being the
unquestioned guy. And let's see where this thing is headed. Knowing what Danny
Ainge did in Boston when he tore them down again, there are other moves
that really need to be made. And as John John Doe says in the
chat, so og and bad and three unprotected first for Donovan Mitchell. That
would be interesting for Toronto. But isn't Donovan Mitchell On the smaller end,
He's neither six seven nor with a seven foot wings band for Toronto. So
I think I think they feel like they're gonna be very uh, he's not
big enough. I'm sorry, I'm reading things that I'm trying to talk here,
but yeah, so I don't know if this is going to be a
complete do over for the Jazz, but you absolutely have to consider it,
even if it's three build around Donovan Chell. They have the All Star Game
next year, which is why I would also be a little bit surprised if
they moved Mitchell now, just as I would be less surprised if Mitchell was
the one too. I guess I'll phrase it this way. I'd be less
surprised if Donovan Mitchell tries to agitate his way out, then I would if
Utah just actively decided under their own volition to tear it down. Right now.
That being said, I do wonder their stomach for tearing it down around
Donovan Mitchell, because they are like if the Lakers just came knocking and said,
and it's almost a perfect salary match, We'll give you two swaps twenty
six and twenty eight, twenty seven and twenty nine first outright unprotected and Russ
for Conley and Boyan Madanovitch. If you actually are rebuilding, why wouldn't you
Why wouldn't you do that just because there are distant picks, but like you
have imminent picks now too, so you take those distant picks and you sort
of just continue to stockpile. And it's what Danny Ainge did when he was
with when he was with A Boston and they sort of fleeced Brooklyn there.
John does make a good point with Utah that they did just trade both of
Donovan's friends. Yeah, they're not resigning Eric Paskell, and they got rid
of Royce O'Neill, but that's Donno. Mitchell is still just under contract long
term and you can probably sell him on a vision around him. They have
Dwayne Wade there for a reason, I imagine, and are giving him such
a voice for that. I honestly don't know. My guess would be that
look as of right now, doesn't seem like Donovan Mitchell wants to be in
Utah, Like that's just long term. If you're the Jazz, though,
maybe he's giving you a chance or you've been able to. He has to
be informed of this. I don't buy that he didn't know Quinn Snyder was
going to walk away. Everyone around the league knew that that was going to
happen. So maybe they sold him on this vision. Maybe they still move
him. And this is just a way of drumming up the ask. And
speaking of which, if Rudy Gobert got this much, how much does Donovan
Mitchell get? Even if you think Rudy Gobert is the better player, Mitchell
is younger, operates from the point of attack, more desirable, and on
top of that, I don't need to turn everything into Kevin Durant, But
if Rudy Gobert got this much, what the hell is Kevin Durant going to
get in trade discussions? Digressing there. So I don't know what this means
for the Jazz, but clearly Jordan Clarkson, who, by the way,
the fact that he loves to be in Utah, I almost don't want to
move Joy Larson if I'm the If I'm the Jazz, are you getting a
first round pick for him? I actually don't think you would. He's not
somebody who's actively gonna hurt your rebuilding chances. The vibes I get from him,
how much he seems to really love being in Utah. Use that guy
as like your cultural benchmark, Like make that make that guy, Make that
guy. Sorry, my phones are going off. Make that guy you're your
guy. He'd be a low key, good free agent recruiter. But yeah,
I think, look towards what mort d Nick is saying in here,
you trade everyone except I guess Mitchell, even if you're gonna keep him,
should not be untouchable on this roster. It's Clarkson, It's it's Mike Conley.
What can he still get you? It's Boyon Madanovitch going into finding your
of his deal Clarkson, and I think Boyton Madonovitch specifically, if you don't
believe Clarkson's gonna pick up his player option next season. They're gonna be teams
that probably want to take flyers on them. Those are the three pieces,
three really players. I hate referring to them as pieces. Sorry, those
are the three players to really watch here though, is just Mike Conley.
He does have that fat guarantee on the second year. There are two years
left on his contract and fourteen point three million of his twenty four point four
million or guaranteed. I think teams will think twice about that, But just
him Playabardonovitch, Jordan Clarkson, like those are Those are players I would expect
at least one of them to be rerouted if they all start the season in
Utah, I will actually be That would surprise me a ton here. And
I don't John Doe, I don't know if you're a Jazz fan because you're
very receptive to the West portraye. But that's that's how you should be thinking.
I don't know if that's on the table, but you have to be
able to get I would think if you're giving up players who can actually play
for the Lakers and Conley and Boyan, it's not just a matter of swallowing
Russ's salary and you can get it even the two first outright, I'm trying
to get as as many pick swaps here. I also didn't mention I'm like
not accounting for Utah's new players here. So they have Leak Beasley, they
have Jared Vanderbilt, they have and I'll throw this question to the chat that
Antoine has. They have Patrick Beverley. I don't I think those are all
trade candidates as well. Beverly is on the expiring contract. Leak Beasley has
two years left. There could be a team that's when they take a flyer
on him. If you're gonna kind of get away from defense. Though,
it does make some sense to keep Donovan Mitchell and then just a fuck ton
of shooting, and that's what they have when you look at Beverly, when
you look at Mike Conley, Boyam Magdanovich, Malik Beasley, roll with that
model. You still need to like change up your front court depth fear that
was always an issue. But now you have like Jared Vanderbilt, and then
you know Rudy Gobert. How many minutes is he playing on this roster right
now? So then know Ken be traded again. So the Jazz are over
the cap right now. It's like he is one unless I'm mistaken. I
do fancy myself really knowledgeable the NBA CBA, But I don't think he could
be aggregated for a while. It's not that long like you could do it
before the season begins. I believe that he or he could just be traded
on his own. I don't know if a team is gonna give you a
first round pick for him, maybe a contender who really wants defense and it's
a you know, top twenty protected or or something. That's the route they
need to go though, if they are planning on being competitive, is can
they get some defense in here, even just you know, more truer wings.
At this point, I thought about and I felt about him a lot
for every team like Josh Richardson would help out the Jazz a ton if they're
if they're looking to like actually remain competitive around Mitchell. So that's a name
that they could look at. I don't know what you give up to get
him. The Spurs are rebuilding themselves, and I'm not giving up a first
for I'm not giving up a first for Josh Richardson definitely not if I'm the
Jazz, but I I'm so curious to know where their direction is and if
it's if it's not tearing it down around on Mitchell. This is really a
retooling, which I find it funny when front offices phrase it that way through
the media. What what does that look like? Because like, there are
more moves to be made here, and I think the only assets that I
think you get positive value for in a trade aside for Mitchell right now after
moving Gobert is Bojan Bogdanovis might be the only one for me. It's nineteen
six is a big number for him, but it's his last year and he's
just he's bigger than Jordan Clarkson. I'm a more efficient three point shooter.
Clarkson gives you more off the dribble pizzazz, So I guess it's one of
them. But like, I don't think Malik Beasley's deal is viewed as favorable
around the league right now, especially after the season that he's coming off.
It's reasonable. Look two years, thirty two million basically left a team option
on the final year. I forgot about that, so he's basically expiring.
Wow, the Jazz really drummed up their flexibility here. I did not.
I for some reason. I thought Malik Beasley had two years left on his
deal that were guaranteed, so that makes it even better for the Jazz.
But now you can move these players, and I think it's for other assets
or you. Like I said, they're all useful. They didn't get a
single player here who's just dead money. Did they do this to maybe open
up, like any minutes for nick Ki Alexander Walker. No, because that's
not the player you traded. You didn't have some big man prospect in waiting.
You have Jared Vanderbilt has this path to a crap ton of playing time,
and that's it. Like that's the only thing that you've really opened up
here, which is why I think it makes the rest of their off season
fascinating. I would be curious, though, what you could get for Beverly,
if anything, he might become a mid season buyout candidate for all I
know. But again, if you are trying to remain competitive, having Beverly
off your bench behind Conley and Mitchell, like it makes some sense. My
gut would tell me though, that they don't go into the regular season with
Mitchell Beverly, Jordan Clarkson, and Mike Conley on this roster. That's just
when you also have Malik Beasley, who's more of a swingman than a wing.
That's just a lot of like non wings to have on your roster.
So they've opened up a ton of cap space moving forward. Utah's not a
free agency destination. YadA, YadA, YadA. We've also kind of seen
and I think this is what this is, dovetails with what Minnesota's doing nicely,
and then the Jazz is future. I think we've so seeing that players
aren't going to hit free agency like they used to. They're gonna sign their
extensions and then figure out a way to be moved later, or the teams
are just gonna move them later. Anyway, we've seen it just a bunch
of times now with the way extension eligibility has worked. Maybe that changes in
the next CBA, but for now, the way to get players is via
trader through the draft, and so if you're a team that's not going to
be bad enough in the draft all of the Minnesota Timberwolves, the trade might
be your best option, which is why you're compelled to give up so many
picks in my opinion. By the way, I'm not trying to spew this
all as fact. All right, this is too far interrupting. John Doe
says Gobert is awesome for basketball ninety two. No, Gobet is awesome for
basketball. Now, if you have the right talent in front of him,
I think the Wolves are gonna do a better job of making him look great
than the Jazz did in certain instances. Even though the playoff minutes are concerned
just with what does towns do on defense or how does that work on offense?
I think that's too strong there, John Doe. But so your Minnesota,
you're not bad enough still, you're not good enough to contend for a
title as is, but you weren't bad enough to be like, oh we
can trust, weren't good to be in cornerstone territory. For the draft,
that leaves trades if you don't expect players hit free agency, and also as
Minnesota, that leaves trades anyway, because you're never this hot button free agency
destination in the first place, which is why you are compelled to go have
somebody picks. Now for the Jazz is part, you're flipping Rudy Gobert for
either bites at the draft apple because that's how you believe you're going to get
Donovan Mitchell's cole star in the draft, or you're just loading up for the
future because maybe you have to go all in one of these days and make
this type of trade. So that's where that draft equity. It seems like
I think it was forgetting the name. On Twitter, someone tweeted this out
that if it was Neil Payne said he feels like first round picks are being
thrown around the NBA sort of like, can't I mean fair enough? John
Doe says he wouldn't rock and John Doe and eighty two, Yeah he would,
he'd be great, but he's great for basketball. Now, it's my
point. All it's all good here. I'm not I'm not trolling you,
I swear. So. I think that's why we're seeing picks thrown around so
much. It's like trades were the best mechanisms to get players right now.
And the Hall for this on Rudy Gobert, when I think a lot of
look, they are Bulls fans. You should have seen if you didn't just
trade proposals that were coming out of Bulls fans, bulls, media, just
smart MBA people who thought it was like Vougin Williams and minimal draft equity because
Gobert had one one hundred and seventy million left on his contract. That's not
a great contract. But like, unless the Timberwolves were bidding against themselves here,
this leads me to believe that there were second best bids that were at
least like if not in the vicinity, but more than we thought Rudy Gobert
was gonna get in general. So I think the Jazz did well here if
they are actually looking to rebuild rather than retool around Mitchell, because I don't
want to necessarily see them turn around and trade these picks for another player.
That type of player doesn't seem like he's he's available. JB Jay Buzzy Brown
says, at least everyone will see how shit Mitchell is now. I don't.
I mean, I don't think Mitchell is shit. I've seen it going
around that there are some think Tyler Hero is gonna be better for him,
or would be better for Utah than mind Heat Uh strike a trade. I
don't see it, like I just I'm pretty high on Tyler Hero, but
I think Mitchell's a damn good player who needs to get better on defense,
probably needs to make more strides as a passer. But when you look at
the multi level shot making he gives you, that's that's huge, and it's
it's just like he's someone he's the archetype of player that I think a lot
of teams would want to build around right now. Which is why I think
the best example of this would be if you if you went to the Knicks
at this moment, I guarantee you're getting a least four first round picks for
Donovan Mitchell, even though they just signed Jalen Brunson, and that backcorp would
be a disaster. If they played it together, probably would be fine offensively,
but it would be a disaster otherwise. That's the value he's going to
have if you if if you offered this is the best offer that he can
give for Donovan Mitchell if they figure out a way to unprotect that pick from
Okay, see you offer nikol Yovic and then three future first two thousand and
twenty three, two thousand, twenty seven, two twenty nine plus Tyler Hero
So those five assets right here, plus Ducan Robinson. I think that all
makes the money work. If you went to Miami right now and offered that
for Donovan Mitchell, they were one percent accepting that. That's how good Mitchell
still is. And I hopefully he'll get better on defense. Will that happen
in Utah? Will happen next season? I honestly, I don't know,
but this is we're talking about someone who's at worse like a fringe All Star,
and he's more All Star than not to me. Paul free did ask
joined the stream late. Is Gobert plus Kat on the floor going to be
an issue for perimeter defense? So yeah, I did. I don't want
to repeat myself there too much for people who actually listen to this as a
podcast, but I do believe they'll be fine during the regular season, because
when you look at fours in the NBA, sometimes they can still be like
these playmaking wings that they've downsized or playmaking bigs, but a lot of the
times they don't have as functional a role as the center or an actual wing.
And so I point to this might be an extreme, but look at
it John Collins, where when he's playing with Capella, another big, he's
going to be doing a lot of spot up work. He's not even a
primary screener. That's stuff that cat can handle. Even if it's Harrison Barnes
in Sacramento. If it's not someone who's gonna be moving a crap ton without
the ball, Towns is probably gonna be okay with that. Now, if
he's on Keegan Murray and Kegan Murray's flying around more as Sacramento, those are
going to be issues. I'm really curious to see what that looks like in
the playoffs though, when teams are going to be more inclined to manipulate their
lineup in substitution patterns based off matchups, and they have more time to dig
into each individual matchup, and what happens if you do face this is going
to be a regular season problem too. What if you face extreme downsizing there?
Rudy Gobert is not going to get played off the court if you have
let's say two of McDaniels, Edwards and Anderson on the floor in that situation.
But what does that mean for Towns? It could be an issue,
and I do think it could also be an issue more so in the playoffs.
But crunch time offense, are you willing to maybe go with only one
of those guys instead of both, that would be that would be something that
they have to look at. And I don't know if you're you know,
if if you're the Wolves, I'm not sure that you trade Rudy Gobert and
extend Corry Towns of the intention of ever having to bench one of them down
the stretch. But it's something that you could realistically need to consider. And
I think that's really like, that's the gist of this for these two teams,
and they're both headed in different directions and this was their best opportunity to
capitalize on said directions, and I think it's it's more important. I think
the stakes are higher for Minnesota here because teams can sell rebuilds. If you're
Utah, whether it's rebuild, it's retooling, and you still haven't even exhausted
all of your asset wells just yet. But like for the Timberwolves, this
is this is the hand that you played. Unless you think that the Angelo
Russell is going to get you a big time return on the on the trade
market, You've punted on cap space in the future, which again is fine.
Anthony Edwards is gonna get paid Karl Anthony Towns was already paid. They're
like Rudy Goberts. I'm gonna tell you right now, Rudy Gobet is way
better than anyone else you would have signed with the idea of cap space in
twenty twenty three. That's just that's how free agency is working now. So
I get what Minnesota doing, but the risk here feels like it's it's on
them way, way, way way more than it is for Utah. And
I don't know what to predict for Utah. Now. I almost thought that
them going, you know, detonating it with smoke and mirrors, and I
kind of thought they would make moves, but they wouldn't go nuclear. They're
on the precipice of going nuclear. I mean, trading your best player or
second best player probably counts as nuclear. It's it's seismic for sure. But
what happens from now is this We're going to see how much they're planning on
retooling versus rebuilding, not just what happens with Donovan Mitchell, but what happens
with Conley Boyan mcdonovitch, Jordan Clarkson. And then, like I said,
the fact that you still have Molik Beasley, Patrick Beverley, those guys,
I think Vando like just keep him at this point. That contract is so
good. You need someone who gives a fuck about defense on this team,
and Patrick Beverley does too. But I would be kind of surprised if he's
going to finish the season in Utah as well. So I think this trade
easily justifiable for both sides to sort of put a ball on this. If
there any other questions, is there are a bunch of people here, throw
them in the chat and I'll stick around for a few more minutes. But
I like it for the Jazz because they they I think they were stale,
and so if you weren't going to be able to acquire another star, do
I think if they messed up, I maybe not going all in on different
sorts of trades than trying to hit these like doubles or triples they got Conley
like they did eventually make it the fact that they could never address their like
defense at the three and the four capably, that's definitely something to hang up
on. But you were stale, you needed to shake things up. If
this leads you to trade Donvan Mitchell or just rebuild around Mitchell, fine,
Now if you're trying to straight on the line. This is where I would
take issue if you think that these picks are the avenue through which you can
just go and trade for more players and be good with Mitchell. I don't
think Danny Ainge thinks that way. And Windhorse, Brian win Horse is now
a legend for what he said on first take about how the Jazz operated this
season. It's not something I thought about. But when you have party there,
you you clearly showed that you were more about the bigger picture than the
immediate and so I do think that this is more of a rebuild around Mitchell
or eventually after next season, independent of Mitchell. My light went off here
and I don't have the I have a plug here that I actually plug it
back in, So I'll plug that back in very quickly. Please excuse my
face leaving the frame. Di Dave men ask what are the thoughts about this
evolving into a fourteen trade with the Sons and the Pelicans? What are the
Pelicans doing in this trade? If if you want to get back to me
with that, I don't know if you're trying to fold it into a DeAndre
eight and sign in trade, it is it gets weird. There's all sorts
of moving parts here, and the way for anyone who hasn't thought about base
your compensation effectively. If the team that is getting eighten, so let's say
Utah is maxing out eighten as part of this deal, eighten counts is thirty
point five million dollars in incoming salary for Phoenix's purposes, though he only counts
for half of that in salary and now go only salary so they can take
back up to let's say, like I think it's like nineteen ish million million,
it's a little lesser, a little bit more than that. I have
the number written down my spreadsheet, but fuck it. So it's a little
lesser, a little bit more than that, and he's getting thirty and you're
not dealing with two other teams that have any real cat flexibility. We're also
with this was an even money trade basically at the moment, there's not a
ton of flexibility there. You would have to expand it, and I don't
like, is there a chance? Yes, But I think I don't know
why the Pelicans would be involved. Like I said, if you want to
comment again on what the actual structure was for you, I also, look,
I'm just gonna say to this. I see Paul Freed said, Utah
gets Eighten and then there's a three team trade where Brooklyn sends Da to with
with Brooklyn that sends Da to Utah. So you're saying Utah, Brooklyn and
Phoenix striker trade that's more feasible. I'm just gonna call it right now.
I have no no idea why Utah would go from We don't want to pay
Rudy Gobert or four years, one seventy, but we're okay going a max
thirty point five million on DeAndre. That just doesn't make my life back,
Tom, Please forgive me. That just doesn't make any sense to me.
So I think the any I know, I think it was John Gambadoro,
who has plugged in Phoenix said that the Jazz have interested in Eten. That
would shock me, and I think it would be stupid to just go Max
out Eton right now, Chris Meyer said, I'm assuming this is in reference
time when many picks Minnesota gave up first round picks in the twenties have about
a three percent success rate. I don't know if that's accurate. I understand
that we over romanticize first round picks. But you're also assuming that the Minnesota
Timberwolves are going to be a top ten NBA team right now through twenty twenty
nine. That's not It's not maybe Towns as young, Edwards as young.
But like you're we're talking, these picks go out past Rudy Gobert's prime.
That's where that's where the risk is, and then there's risk on the actual
pairing. This isn't a no brainer fit. I think Dejanta Murray is probably
a cleaner fit in Atlanta with Trey than we know about Rudy and Karl Anthony
Towns. I think Towns and Gobert of the higher ceiling together but also have
the lower floor. So that gets really weird. Not think Aten should end
up and you thought that would be just I don't. I don't get it.
Like, so you have Mitchell and eighton, that's the thought. And
I suppose you've turned Rudy, Gobert and other picks. So you go out
and then get depending on what Atan costs you, you then go out and
get other guys to make the team better. Immediately, if you told me
what are the subsequent other moves, they're fine, but how much of this
package are you eating into to get eighten in the first place, Like you're
either sending let's use and I think, look Paul's freeze idea of like using
Utah Brooklyn and Phoenix and Kevin Durant trade. I'm assuming to get eighten to
Utah. That makes a lot more sense because I think you can make the
case that Brooklyn's in the same boat except they don't have the other tempole star
Kyrie's whatever he's gone, or like blah blah blah blah. Do you view
that Ben Simmons still is that player? I think at this point a lot
of people are gonna believe Donovan Mitchell is closer for being an incumbent corner stone
than Ben Simmons is, which is just totally fair. So if you're Brooklyn,
you could talk, okay, well instead of eight and we just want
more picks which the Jazz can send us and then we'll make the money work.
They have expiring contracts, how many? I mean, yes, Chris,
it's it's top twenty five protected. It's awesome. You could be the
sixth worst team in basketball and end up with the sixth pick, Like that's
not there's a risk there. It's I don't know what the h and I'm
not even yelling at Chris. I'm not sure what the point here is.
You've given up three unprotected picks, a very loosely protected fourth pick, and
then an unprotected swap. That's the equivalent to me of four unprotected picks at
least. But you've essentially given up control almost the five years of your draft.
So it's a risk. I'm not saying it's a bad one, it's
a it's a risk, it's a real risk. But the Utah Phoenix stuff,
I just don't how much how many of that then realistically to get eight,
and how many of your current assets are you giving up to get him,
Because I guess you could make the case as I just did, and
I wouldn't buy it. But that Utah having eighten plus a bunch of other
first and then Mitchell maybe still some expiring contracts to work with on the trade
market, that's an interesting position. Eight is sill, he's much younger than
Gobert. At the same time, I'd rather just have these picks and a
bunch of cat flexibility moving forward, especially, I'm not making any move along
the lines of let's give up first to maximize this time with Donovan Mitchell.
If Donovan Mitchell isn't committed, like I need to know he's here for at
least the next to like to finish out this contract at least, and you
can never make that promise is right now. He has his player option in
two twenty five, two and twenty six, so he has three more seasons
of under team control. We know how this works out now with pre agency
the trade demand. If it's coming, it'll come maybe in two thousand and
twenty four, Like when he's going into the final year before his player option,
it's probably gonna come two seasons or in the middle of twenty twenty three
twenty twenty four. So unless he's committed to staying with you, I'm not
making anything like more like I'm not scowing when now in any type of move,
I'd rather have the picks, even though Aten's young definitely fits the rebuilding
timeline. I also buy into eighton having a more expansive offensive roles, and
I think most others do. I still think he needs long term a really
good league guard next to him. I recognize that he made a lot of
improvement with his hook shots. He can have really nice touch around the basket.
I do think there's more face up stuff to plumb with him, but
it's sort of an offensive hub or a co hub. I don't know that
I'm there yet. We need to see him play with more overall self sustaining
thrust on a more consistent basis before we go that far. I do think
we've covered about everything here about this trade. If anyone else has any further
questions about it, there are still a bunch of you in here. You
could throw it in the chat Chris has. My point is when you add
names to those picks, they become less valuable. And I agree. I
agree with you, Chris, that there's the car driving off the lot effect
there that is not going to happen for a lot of these picks for a
good many years, and that's the appeal of them. And so I already
said, I don't know if you were here for this, that the Wolves
are never going to sign anyone as good as go baron free agency. That's
one they're not a that desirable market and two that's not out free agency works
anymore. Players are sign an extensions and so they're either getting traded, and
that's how you're getting a quarterstone or star whatever, or you're drafting them.
And the Wolves are in a situation where right now, even if they fail,
they're not going to be in the typical cornerstone territory in the draft.
So that's why you give up so many picks to get Gobet. My question
is was this the right move to go all in on. I don't there's
a chance. I just said, I think the ceiling on this is incredibly
high, and people are probably already a little too low on it. But
I do think it has the the ability to implode during the playoffs, and
I outline why if you want to listen to the rest of this video when
it goes up permanently, or check out hardwoul Knocks. The actual podcasts will
go up as a podcast. I just think, offensively, what if defense
is ignoring all bear during the playoffs, or teams will go after the front
court more. I'm opposing offense, we'll go out for the front court more
by downsizing in the playoffs, and what does that do to towns? Defensively,
do your all of a sudden a position where you have to bench one
or the other and most likely be Gobet because of how valuable Towns is on
offense. I don't. I think it's very much TBD. I don't think
the Wolves are losers. I said that it's not a risk I would have
been willing to take, and I'm I think I'm just more risk averse here,
but I am probably more optimistic on the Gobert Towns pairing people who are
acting like towns that are playing with a big or in this similar role.
I mean, Jared Vanderbilt was basically a big on offense last year, so
that's like, that's gonna be fine. I have no I'm really not worried
about it on offense. I think between those two it's fine. Maybe the
rest of the roster depending on how you feel after you get past Dilo and
Anthy Edwards. How do you feel about your secondary ball handlers and shooting,
That for sure is a risk. So that's just what I was saying,
Chris. The development of McDaniels, Yeah, it does seem like they might
have paid a premium here to keep Jane McDaniels, whom I love. He
is super fast twitch on defense. They seem to very much also view him
as a pure three, if not, maybe even play some two if Anthy
Edwards is your point guard in certain lineups. And that I think went into
a lot of the thought process behind why do we want to pay karl anthy
Towns with a bigger body? And so if you're paying an extra tax to
keep Jane McDaniels Jane McDaniels better, I mean attacks and draft picks, not
the actual luxury tax, then you you better one percent hope that he pans
out. Clovis Neio Coco said, Jazz gotta James Harden like Hall from the
t Wolves. H they didn't get that much, but they got a lot
more they're gonna get. As I was gonna say, JP as what stars
with the Jazz pair with Mitchell if they plan on keeping him? Oh shit,
I don't even think I've given consideration to that question. Man, who's
like who even realistically is a star? Right now? That wilcome available,
you want him with Kevin Durant. I'm mostly I'm kidding there. I'd be
interested if things kind of you know, hit the fan, Zach Levine and
Nonovan Mitchell would be highly interesting. I don't love that defensively, nor should
should anybody else, but that is a route they could go. I'm just
trying to figure like potential stars that are available or could become available down the
line. I don't think Chris Middleton is high end enough here. I don't
think okay SE's ever shay Gil just Alexander will almost perfect. But okay,
see based off the way they consolidated picks into Uzman Jang and I know they
weren't great first round picks, they do seem to be thinking more and like
not immediate but your term lines of thinking. So there's that. I just
I don't see the other star that's gonna become available right now. You can
make a case for higher end players if they do, but like, no,
Gianna Nobi would be perfect in Utah is young enough to where maybe you
can justify the opportunity costs there. If anyone has any star suggestions for Mitchell,
you could definitely throw them in the chat. I think the what's interesting
here is like the star market trade market was sort of barren entering the off
season, and it's now playing out before our eyes, where okay go barrels
already off the board, and obviously that one works for Mitchell. There were
people holding out hope that Towns would reject an extension and maybe that would make
him available. I think even if he rejected it, he was gonna roll
the dice on getting a bigger extension if he made an All NBA team next
year, when he could have extended for five out rather than four. So
he was never that was never gonna happen. There were still people holding out
hope for like brad the Beal zach Lavine to maybe consider signing trade scenarios.
I think Beal is probably going to be like one of the next guys that
just become available because I don't I don't think Washington is going to figure it
out, even though they're super flexible, and I don't think we need to
troll him for taking the money and staying. And I think Washington's flexible enough
where if they're going to give this a year or two to see where they're
at. But I could see him among like there are people who are still
waiting on Devin Booker, among the Booker, zach Lavine, Bradley Beal types,
the Towns like the names that people were sort of trying to watch.
I think Beal's the next one to go there Paul Free did say, I
think Spider and Brandon Ingram would be nasty, but you need New Orleans to
not actively be looking to to win, and like they're about to get Zion
back after just giving the Suns all they can handle in the first round of
the playoffs, So I don't think they are a team that's gonna be looking
to shed a star, which makes this so difficult. JP said, Beale
and Mitchell would be so bad defensively, and I wouldn't navocate for them doing
that. I'd advocate for Lavine more so than Bial. I trust Lavine's shooting
on the perimeter off dribble a little bit more, but that would be a
terrible defensive pairing. And when you get to the point where they're available,
do you like we're talking about guys who Lavine will be approaching thirty but will
be in his thirties. What I will say, I used to fancy myself
someone who could project these next names to become available. But looking at what
happened in Brooklyn over the past year, where James Harden wanted out, Kevin
Durant wants out, now Kyrie Irfan, he's trying to force his way the
Lakers. I'm not even going to pretend that I can project it anymore.
For all I know, you know, Kawhi or Paul George could get pissed
off with the Clippers at some point. I don't know why. Their franchise
is pretty well run. What if the Sixers, after getting the Rockets,
the twenty eighteen nineteen Rockets, back together around Joel Embiid. What if they
rankle him. He only has like Maybe he's the next next player to decide
to. He has like his extensions, so he's under contract for time.
Maybe he's the next player to agitate out. Not predictions, just I clearly
have no Now you're bad, Paul, Fuck it. I'm just saying those
are the stars that could become available. I would not, I would not,
Buel and Lavine would not behind my list. I just I can't think
of the next stars to jad out. But that's part of this process is
developed over the year, and the unpredictable happens. I'm gonna leave it there
because I have real work to do surrounding this trade. This was great.
If this is anyone's first time checking us out, please consider throwing us that
permanent subscription. I'm not always alone, but for the emergency ones, I
am I'm gonna be alone a lot of times. Subscribe to us on YouTube
or check out our podcast, join our discord, the links to which is
in the podcast description and the YouTube channel. JP didn't want to squeeze.
What do you think of the Blazer signings today? Peyton the Second resigning.
Nurkitch I talked about Peyton on the Day one wrap up pod. Really smart
signing by the Blazers. I don't care that they're small. They have a
lot of defenders now and Josh Hart, Jeremy Grant, Gary Payton the second.
I would absolutely play all three of those guys on a smaller lineup with
Dame and Anthony Simons. I'm also a little bit of a sicko with small
ball units. Nurkicch it could be an overpay, could be market value if
you're judging it against the Mitchell Robinson sixty million dollar contract, and that's all
guaranteed. It's fun. Urk is a really valuable offensive player and if you're
still gonna let him stay and drop, he's a fine rim protector and definitely
during the regul season, if you're asking him to do more complicated stuff in
the playoffs, it gets if he love the Peyton signing, love the Blazer's
off season overall, I think actually the Nordage contract is the biggest risk that
they took, which says a lot about how I've you Anthony Simons, and
but I think that's good if that's your biggest risk, because NERK will be
solid for the regular season. But yeah, if it's your first time checking
us out, please subscribe to us on YouTube check out. The podcast means
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YouTube and in the actual podcast player. We end every episode if you're here
for the first time, as always with the shout out to the one,
the only, the conference finalist, the next star that you taught to try
and pair with, Donovan Mitchell, Frank neil g