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We're back with another edition of the
Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Dashinsky,

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culture editor here at the Federalist.
As always, you can email the show

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at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on exit fdr LST.

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Make sure to subscribe wherever you download
your podcasts, and of course to the

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premium version of our website as well. Today, I'm excited to be joined

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by Body Bacam. He's the author
of It's Not Like Being Black, How

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sexual activists Hijacked the Civil Rights Movement, and likely a familiar name to many

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of you for many other reasons.
Thank you so much for joining us,

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sir, it is my pleasure.
Thank you for having me. Now,

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for people who maybe aren't familiar with
your work, could you just catch us

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up a little bit on what you
are up to these days. I don't

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know if you can say where you
are, but it's not Arizona as we

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established it before. No, it's
not Arizona. My family and I'm me

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and my wife and seven youngest children. For the last eight and a half

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years have been living and serving in
Lusaka, Zambia, the capital city here.

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Came to help start the African Christian
University and I'm still serving there.

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A lot of people get mixed up
about that because I'm back in the US

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three or four times a year to
do two week speaking tours, and so

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people people just assume that I'm around
because they see me at you know,

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different things. But no, we
are here. We've been living here for

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almost nine years now. And you
know, a lot of people who follow

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these issues closely will understand probably why
you were inspired to write a book again

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called It's Not Like Being Black How
sexual activists hijack the civil rights movement,

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given that you now live in one
of the areas in the world in which

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this has become a real flashpoint.
And I don't want that to be a

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leading question, but maybe if you
could talk to us just a little bit

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about how so many African countries are
dealing with a the West and you know,

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aid from the West, but also
the cultural influence in the West,

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but also massive conversions to Christianity.
How are people dealing with this and did

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that potentially inspire you to write this
book? Well, I was inspired to

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write this book a decade and a
half ago before Obergafel. I my original

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intention was to write this as a
warning about what was coming and anyway,

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just it was never the right time, I guess. And so now writing

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an actor, Obergefeld, it's about
what happened and how we got here.

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So I wasn't necessarily inspired to write
it by where I live. However,

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that did contribute to the way that
I wrote it, living here, you

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know, and seeing the sort of
flashpoint. Really it was the Ugandan law

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that was the flashpoint for everybody,
and the response to the Ugandan law and

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not so veiled for it by President
Biden basically threatening to remove aid from Uganda

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over this law. And you know, I've often said with shekels come shackles,

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and the West through the u N
and you know, different world banking,

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you know, extitutions and things like
that really holds Africa captive in a

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lot of ways. Nevertheless, on
this issue, so are it hasn't It

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hasn't exactly worked out that way.
So it's interesting to see the different responses.

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But it's also interesting to see how
people who you know, in twenty

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twenty on. It's this sort of
anti colonial mentality, right, the neo

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Marxist ideology, the woke ideology,
which you know, carried with it this

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anti colonial mentality, and for the
West to tell Africa what it must do

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on issues of homosexuality sounds incredibly colonial
to people in this part of the world.

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And you know, you've written a
lot about the drift of American evangelicalism,

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and I guess in that context,
I'm also curious why you think it

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is that so far Africa and African
countries Uganda have not budged on this fundamental

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issue of sex, sexuality, sexual
orientation, despite all of the pressures from

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the West. I love it has
to do with tradition. It's a you

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know, traditionally their disposition has been
held and homosexuality has been frowned upon,

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it's been illegal. So that's part
of it. The other part of it

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is that the way things happened in
the US and in the West, it

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took a long time, right,
So we've got to go all the way

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back to the Frankfurt School. We've
got to go all the way back to

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Antonio Gramscii, you know, the
Italian Marxists in the nineteen thirties, to

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Frankfurt School nineteen fifties and sixties,
and what's often been referred to as this

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long march through the institutions right where
you basically take over university campuses mainly through

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schools of education and journalism and political
science, so on and so forth,

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you basically transform people's thinking generationally.
A lot of that in the US happened

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as a result of this institutional work
that was done. Well, a lot

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of that same institutional work hasn't been
done on the African continent. So the

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foundations haven't been laid in the same
way. That is with one exception,

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and the one exception is South Africa. A lot of people don't realize this,

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and I write about this in the
book, but South Africa, under

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Nelson Mandela, was the fifth country
on planet Earth to legalize same sex marriage

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number five, okay, two decades
before America legalized same sex marriage. And

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you know, so there's a whole
bunch of other stuff, you know,

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back there, But you know,
with that one exception, you just don't

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have the same kind of groundwork laid
here that has been laid very carefully and

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very intentionally in the West. This
didn't happen overnight. Well yeah, and

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I think maybe actually it's worth unpacking
that because the again this is the title

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of the book, is it's not
like being black and the Gramsian Uh,

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the approach that actually, as you
discuss the liberalization, the liberal drift of

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American evangelicalism, I actually think is
probably you know, you're nodding body,

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I think probably this is intertwined.
Can you talk to us a little bit

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about how the Gramcian sort of foundations
of that ideology are are leading us down

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some of these paths. Yeah.
So one of the big words and I'm

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not a you know, a big
word guy normally when I'm talking to people

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to try to use, you know, words everybody can understand. But there's

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a very important word in Gramcian,
you know, Frankfurt School and Neo Marxism,

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and it's hegemony. And and hegemony
is it's the worldview. It's the

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ideology that dominates a particular culture.
It used to be in classical Marxism you

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talked about, you know, the
bourgeois and the protariat. You talked about

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people who owned the means of production
and people who didn't own the means of

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production. It was economic. In
Neo Marxism, it's cultural and ideological.

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And so the neo Marxist sees the
oppressor as the person who sets the tone

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ideologically in the culture and establishes the
hegemony. That's how they dominate the culture,

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right, And so when you look
at the oppressor, you look for

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the group that has established the hegemony. When you think about that in the

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West, and you even see these
are these things called oppression wheels. You

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know, there's concentric circles with you
know, the inside is less oppressed and

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the outside more oppressed. Whatever.
And on these oppression wheels. Around the

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outside of the wheel, you always
have the oppressor represented as the white,

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heterosexual, cisgendered, you know,
able bodied, native as opposed to immigrant,

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on and on, you go on
around this, and ultimately it's also

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Christian, right, so the hegemonic
oppressive power in the West is seen as

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white Christianity at the end of the
day. What this also means because again

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this neo Marxism is as atheist as
classical Marxism is. They don't believe in

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absolute truth. So things aren't right
or wrong because there's a such thing as

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objective truth. Things are right or
wrong because the hegemonic power declares them.

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So so when you look at this, you look at the dominant group believes

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thinks, you know, teaches and
you see that as what's oppressive. This

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explains why, you know, for
example, gays and lesbians. Historically,

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gays and lesbians have never gotten along. There's always been a rift between gay

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men and lesbians and the l's and
g's and the bees don't like to tease,

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and you know, intersect people are
like, why are you putting us

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on that list? We have an
actual medical diagnosis and problem, you know

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these things. How does this make
The only way it makes sense is through

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this ideology that says there is no
right or wrong when it comes to sexual

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morality. It's just what this oppressive
majority has forced on us for all this

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time. And so you unite over
the idea that we're all now and the

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key wordy is sexual minorities. So
it's really this huge ideological shift that has,

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you know, kind of gotten us
to where we are. And a

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lot of Christians, a lot of
Evangelicals have gotten caught up with this and

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believe that they have to sort of
denounce the hegemony. Right, they have

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to, you know, deny their
power. And one of the ways that

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you deny your power is you acknowledge
the big, bad, mean hegemonic power

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and you apologize for having been born
into you know whatever areas of you know,

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power that you hold and hope that
you know eventually through this struggle session

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you'll be accepted. The problem is
this beast is never satisfied, never satisfied,

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and you can't apologize enough, you
can't give up enough. And Christians

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need to know that. Do you
see this and everything you just described as

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being downstream of moral relativism and you
know, is moral relativism itself maybe downstream

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of nihilism you wear you're talking about
gram she is one thing. But then

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does this go back to Mark san
Hagel, to Nietzsche? What sort of

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what is this downstream of? Yeah, it's it's it's all sort of wrapped

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up together, right, because if
you don't have any absolutes, if you

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if if there is no God,
if there is, if there are no

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moral absolutes other than this oppress or
oppressed paradigm, then then you do I

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mean, ultimately you do have nihilism. Ultimately you do have you know,

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relativism, and so a lot of
these things they work together, you know,

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they go hand in hand. It's
inevitable that you you think this way,

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right, you can't have there is
no God, and you know there

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are no absolutes and somehow avoid being
a moral roads pistons debt. It keeps

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You can't get away from it. But

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That's zapmdebt dot com, zapmidebt dot
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I think point to go back to
something you mentioned earlier about how you plan

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to write this book before Obergefell,
and things have changed a lot since Obergafel

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in ways that some people were called
crazy for predicting, and Zovadie, I

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wanted to get your take on,
you know, the trajectory of our cultural

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sexual norms since obergh Well, I
don't think it's been surprising to you,

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but maybe you could just comment on, you know, has it gone further

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than you expected or has it gone
sort of exactly as you expected. It

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hasn't gone further, It's gone faster, right, it's gone faster and back

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in you know, two thousand and
five, two thousand and six, two

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thousand and seven Welms speaking on these
things things I would often be chided for

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talking about the slippery slope, right, and same sex marriage was the key

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domino to fall in all of this, right, because if you look,

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if you look at that issue,
there's so much tied up in it.

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Number one, if that domino falls, then tradition means nothing. And when

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I say tradition, I'm not talking
about American I'm talking about human right,

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I'm talking about human history. It
means nothing. So it is the ultimate

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score for moral relativism. But the
other thing is the reason that it fell

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was because we basically reduced marriage,
you know, not to this relationship that

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is a cornerstone of all human civilization
because it's the fountain head from which offspring

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comes, right, which again that
ties it to male and female, you

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know. But now all of a
sudden, it's just a relationship about people

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being acknowledged and affirmed based on whomever
it is that they feel like they are

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and whomever it is that they feel
like they want to love. You know,

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it's kind of love is love?
Right? And when you do that,

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I would say things like, okay, if this is the argument right

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that you ought to be able to
marry, you got to legally be able

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to marry whomever you fall in love
with. What do we do with the

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man who wants to marry his twelve
year old neighbor, What do we do

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with the man who wants to marry
his son, What do we do with

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the woman who wants to marry her
pet? And you know, people with

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you being ridiculous, YadA, YadA, YadA. I've got a whole section

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in the book about people all over
the world who have married animals, like,

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all over the world. I got
a list of them. Right,

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And so if it's just you should
be able to marry whomever you are drawn

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to, whomever you feel like you
know you love, and the state has

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to acknowledge that once that domino falls, then all bets are off. And

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it's no wonder that once that domino
fell, we started to see more and

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more crazy stuff, all the way
down to furries and everything else. Now

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right, you know, pro this
pronound nonsense. I mean, ultimately we

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went from denying, yeah, the
God who created marriage or the marriage that

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got created, to denying reality itself. Right. We're denying that, you

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know, God made us male and
female. We're denying that a man is

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a man and a woman is a
woman. We're saying that men men straight.

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We're saying that men get pregnant,
right, I mean, it's you

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know, it's insane. That to
me, also, by the way,

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is what makes me a little hopeful, because I think this thing has gone

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too far. We see people standing
up at school board meetings, we see

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people standing up in Congress, we
see people. I mean, it's just

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gone too far. And I think
the sports thing, you know, I

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mean, women are losing scholarships,
forget state championships, losing scholarships. It's

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just gone too far. We've got
you know, children being transitioned in school

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and parents not being told about it. It's just gone too far. And

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so I think the pendulum, though
it swung far and fast, I think

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it's about out of momentum. And
obviously, the civil rights movement in mid

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century and the United States of America
was dominated by Christian voices. And it's

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hard to know, you know,
hard to take scoop people out of their

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historical context and put them in the
context of today. But Christianity was so

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important to the civil rights movement.
It was so important to abolishing slavery.

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It's been so important to all kinds
of different civil rights issues in the United

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States. So why is it then
that the civil rights movement opened up the

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door sort of let in the radical
sexual activists as you described in the book.

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Yeah, where did that come from? A couple of places. One,

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it came from within the civil rights
movement itself. But Rustin was a

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key leader in the civil rights movement. Even though most people don't know his

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name. He was King's speech writer. He was an openly gay man who

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he had been arrested in the fifties
for sexual eleudiness, and you know all

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these other things and Rustin. I
have a quote from Rustin in the book,

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and I can't quote it here,
but basically Rustin is saying towards the

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end of the Civil rights movement that
that the new he uses the in word,

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right, the new inWORD is is
uh, it's homosexuals. And within

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the civil rights movement there was all
there were already the seeds of continuing this

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on this you know, sexual trajectory. There was a belief within the movement

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that King wasn't the guy to do
it, that there were others, you

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know, guys from the Harlem Renaissance
and you know things like that, who

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were probably the guys to do it. But so the seeds of it were

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in that movement already. After that
though, one of the books that I

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spent a lot of time interacting with
is a book called After the Ball.

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The subtitle, I think is that
you know how America will overcome its fear

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and hatred of gaze in the decade
of the nineties. It was supposed in

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nineteen eighty nine two Harvard professors,
one in psychology and one in marketing,

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and they outline a propaganda plan to
change the way Americans think about home sexuals.

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Now nineteen eighty nine, this is
the height of the age crisis,

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and their idea was, we can
use the AIDS crisis to gain sympathy for

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ourselves. It's a critical moment,
right, the country could turn on us,

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you know, and you know we're
the ones who are bringing this,

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and or we could use this to
gain sympathy for ourselves and present ourselves as

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an aggrieved minority group. So the
whole idea of gay as the new Black

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right really begins to gain momentum during
that time, and the idea that this

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is the next phase in the civil
rights movement. And people have to remember

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that the civil rights movement had many
phases. For example, everybody's talking about

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Title nine, right, and you
know Title nine is the Civil Rights Act

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for women, and you know,
we women's sports and stuff like that,

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and everybody's worried about Title nine because
you know, the Biden administration added sexual

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orientation, identity whatever to that,
opening the door for trends identifying people to

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basically have you know, all the
rights and privileges of women. But if

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there's a title nine, a lot
of people think that that just came,

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you know, out of nowhere.
It was just out a whole cloth,

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right, Well, that means there's
an eight and a seven, and a

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six and a five. But if
you go back, Title nine is nineteen

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seventy three. It was the next
phase in the civil rights movement. So

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we have the Civil Rights Act of
nineteen sixty four, Voting Rights Act of

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nineteen sixty five, and then you're
extending this to different groups, you know,

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over time. So as this begins
to be extended to different groups over

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time, it just made sense to
you know, sexual activists to identify themselves

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as sexual minorities and to make a
play for inclusion in all of this.

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So it kind of came from from
multiple directions. And you know, at

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that point, it isn't like being
black, how I mean, that's it

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seems so obvious. Although it's like
I was at my alma Mato George Washington

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University walking through their encampment there,
you know, pro pouse side encampment,

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and there was a glitter they had
made a sign that said Gaze for Gaza

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because it's all sort of lumped into
as you just described. You just described

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the interesting history of how that came
to be, but it's all lumped into

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one giant struggle as they see it. But that seems like it should be

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so offensive to the American Black community. Do you think the American black community,

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the Western black community has started to
pick up on that and has started

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to object to it, or are
we all sort of have we all been

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so deeply conditioned to go with the
your truth, my truth Rachel Dolozol,

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00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,839
Yeah, there there have been and
you bring up Dolasol, I write about

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00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:59,480
her as well. Remind me.
I'll come back to that. But a

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lot of people have been offended by
this. You know, a lot of

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Black people have just and not understood
how people can go along with this,

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you know, how people can accept
this. But on the other hand,

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there have been a lot of Black
people, especially in you know, upper

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echelons, who have been proponents of
it. You know, I talk about

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them as well. There's a lot
of proponents of it, and the reason

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for that is this is about power, right, homosexuals, you know,

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00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:48,279
depending on numbers that you look at
people identify as homosexuals one hundred three percent

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00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:53,000
of the population, you know,
transgender much smaller than that. You know,

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you lump all these people together,
you're talking about a very small number

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of people. But if you talk
about the oppressed or oppressed paradigm, and

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if you know, when you look
at the gay pride flag, right,

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not the rainbow flag, but the
gay pride flag. The gay pride flag

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is the rainbow flag with the chevron
you know, on the on the side,

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00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,599
and the chevron has the white,
pink blue. You know, you're

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00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:26,440
you're involving your transgender and the intersect, right, but then it has black

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00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:33,720
and brown, right, they include
that in the gay Pride progress flag.

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00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:41,480
Why, because this is all about
ideology. It's not about sexuality. This

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00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:48,559
is a power grap This is about
you know, overthrowing the hegemonic power and

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replacing the hegemonic power with us.
So, yeah, because of that,

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00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,960
there are a lot of people who've
been involved and these you know, types

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00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,480
of struggles if you will, for
a long time, and they just see

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00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:12,480
this as more people coming on board, putting pressure on the power elitse and

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00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:19,119
helping to turn the tide and it's
all about power. And now I'm of

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00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,119
course going to remind you to get
back to the one and only Rachel Dollozol,

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00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:27,000
because I'm very eager to hear your
perspective on that body. I think

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00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:37,319
it's incredibly important because my question to
people is why can't Rachel Dolosol identify as

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00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:45,480
black? There is far less difference
between me and Rachel Dozol ethnically than there

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00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:52,599
is sexually. Let me say that
again. There's far, far less difference

301
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:59,079
between me and Rachel Dolozol ethnically,
very little difference, you know, ethnically

302
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,599
racially between me and Rachel Dolozov.
But when you start talking about sexually male

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00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:12,440
versus female, there's huge differences between
us. And they're not superficial, right,

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00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,519
the racial differences between us, A
lot of them are superficial. But

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00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:26,240
people have said absolutely not, she
cannot. I don't care what she thinks.

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I don't care what she believes she
cannot. And the only difference between

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where Rachel Dolozol is and where the
transgender movement is is a listing in the

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00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:45,279
DSM right, the Diagnostic and Statistical
Manual, right, That's the only difference

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00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:48,400
is that you know, some folks
you know who went to school and have

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00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:55,480
been you know, anointed psychologists,
psychiatrists, whatever, you know, they've

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00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:02,279
they've talked about, you know,
jenderphoria, and they've classified it, and

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00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:07,799
we've named it and we've got you
know, it's in there. But whatever

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00:29:07,079 --> 00:29:12,839
Rachel Zolzoz is dealing with, it's
not in there, and therefore it's enough

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00:29:12,839 --> 00:29:18,400
thing. But I think it's incredibly
important, you know, I think it's

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00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:26,640
important to press people on this because
it shows the inconsistency, the logical inconsistency,

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00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:34,079
and the idiocy of all of this
that we are like, absolutely not

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00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:37,960
not only can she not do that, but it's offensive for her to do

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00:29:38,039 --> 00:29:45,519
that, right, But yeah,
we can get Leah Thompson the pool And

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00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:56,960
anyway, there's this raging debate about
the concept of color blindness, and I

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00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,720
think the opponents of color blindness on
the left definitely take out of context what

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people mean when they say color blind. They mean legally color blind, not

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00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,759
that these distinctions don't, you know, generally carry some meantful differences. That

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00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:15,519
is, the experience of a black
man is different than the experience of a

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00:30:15,519 --> 00:30:18,880
white woman. In the United States
of America. But can you talk a

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00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,960
little bit about it and also the
experience, also the experience of a black

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00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:27,440
man in California is different than the
experience of a black man in New York.

327
00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:33,200
Can you talk about how people should
think about these things. Yeah,

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00:30:33,359 --> 00:30:37,359
So when we talk about, you
know, colorblindness, as you've said,

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00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:41,480
what if we're being honest, right, if we're not trying to play gotcha

330
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,599
and you know or whatever. If
we're being honest, we recognize that what

331
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:53,119
people are arguing for is for us
not to be prejudiced, right, for

332
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:59,880
us to not be racial essentialists and
say, I see what color you are,

333
00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:04,720
therefore I know your story, Therefore
I know your intentions, therefore I

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00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:11,240
know your heart. Right, Yeah, that's racism. And so color blindness

335
00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:21,200
is arguing against that. Color Blindness
is not arguing for us to ignore this

336
00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:29,759
beautiful mosaic that God has given us
in humanity. Right, it's a wonderful

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00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:34,720
thing. And so, yeah,
color blindness is not is not saying that,

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00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:42,039
you know, we fail to recognize
and or appreciate the wonderful differences and

339
00:31:42,079 --> 00:31:49,960
distinctions you know, between between people. Color Blindness says that we don't essentialize

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00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:56,039
people and judge them based on that. Andy Before we wrap, I just

341
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:02,880
have to get your perspective of on
the creep of I shouldn't say creep because

342
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:10,279
it's understates it the clashes between Islam
and Christianity that are starting to overcome so

343
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:15,599
many different Christian communities in Africa.
What that means for the future. Maybe

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00:32:15,599 --> 00:32:20,319
you could just speak to speak to
that a little bit from your perspective right

345
00:32:20,359 --> 00:32:23,240
now. Yeah, these I mean, these things are not These things are

346
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:30,680
not new, and there are parts
of the African continent, especially in East

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00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:42,799
Africa, Northeast Africa, where more
Christians are dying for being Christians than its

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00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:50,480
just about any other time in the
history of the Church. And unfortunately most

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00:32:50,519 --> 00:32:55,440
people are unaware of that. Right, you'll hear a story when when you

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00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,559
know, something significant happens and some
girls are taken from a Nigerian school,

351
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:07,720
and you know, you'll hear about
it then. But we're not hearing regularly

352
00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:12,519
about these things that are happening.
And there's a number of reasons for that.

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00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,039
One reason we're not hearing about it
is because it's it's remote, right,

354
00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:21,640
And when I say remote, I
mean in two senses. One,

355
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:28,440
it's remote from the West, right. But secondly, these places tend to

356
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,440
be rural, these places where these
clashes are going on, right, they

357
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,519
tend to be rural, not you
know, in the places that we often

358
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:40,000
hear about. That's one reason that
we don't hear about it. Another reason

359
00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:46,720
that we don't hear about it is
because, for whatever reason, while Christianity

360
00:33:46,799 --> 00:34:00,119
is the hegemonic boogeyman and it is
completely acceptable to attack, demean, slender

361
00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:08,760
and anything else you want to do
with Christians, there's this unwritten rule,

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00:34:09,079 --> 00:34:14,760
often unspoken rule, that you don't
mess with the Muslims, and a lot

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00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,280
of times it's out of fear,
you know, a lot of times it's

364
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,199
out of fear. So you put
those two things together and we just don't

365
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:29,039
get a lot of information about what's
going on, but it is going on.

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00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:32,639
Is that also possibly because of what
you were discussing in the left sort

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00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:37,719
of hegemonic approach to hedge of money. Actually that if you see, and

368
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,760
this has been a big part of
the conversation about Gaza frankly, that if

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00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:46,159
you see Jews or Christians as the
oppressors, you are hesitant to criticize the

370
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:51,800
oppressed. Yeah, I mean,
that's that's part of it, you know,

371
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,159
that's part of it as well.
You know, it's really interesting,

372
00:34:55,199 --> 00:35:00,440
and this is a whole other can
of worms. But living here, one

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00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,559
of the things that I've just become
more and more aware of and then dug

374
00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:07,360
into a lot because I just didn't
hear about it, you know, being

375
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,519
an American. It's the Arab slave
trade. The Arab slave trade started before

376
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,039
the European slave try. I'm talking
about the African slave trade. Right.

377
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,320
Slavery has been in every culture throughout
the history of the world, but when

378
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,840
I'm talking about the slave trade,
I'm talking about the African slave trade.

379
00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:29,239
Arabs started trading African slaves long before
the Europeans did, and they did it

380
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:38,079
long after and didn't stop until they
were forced by military power to stop it.

381
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:45,599
And so it's really interesting even from
the perspective of the oppressor oppressed,

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00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:52,079
because you know, one of the
big, you know, defining characteristics of

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00:35:52,119 --> 00:35:57,920
the oppressor in the West is the
enslavers. Right, That's one of the

384
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,440
big ways that we that we categorized
is that, you know, by the

385
00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:07,840
enslavers and what by that token,
the Arab slave trade lasted longer it happened

386
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:14,800
in far larger numbers. It was
much more brutal and deadly. And yet

387
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:23,360
and yet because we're not trying to
overcome you know, the hegemony and take

388
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:29,000
over the Middle East, well,
you know, it's it's as one you

389
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:30,320
know, recent book called, you
know, the War on the West.

390
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,800
This is the war on the West, you know. And so it's really

391
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,880
interesting, the the the the irony, not only the you know, gays

392
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:44,360
for Gaza irony, right you go
over there to throw you off our roof.

393
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:52,880
Yeah, but but the irony is
it's unmistakable. Vadi Bacham is the

394
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,599
author of the most recent book,
It's Not Like Being Black House Sexual activists

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00:36:55,679 --> 00:37:00,199
Hijacked the Civil rights movement. That
book is out on June fourth. Body,

396
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,119
thank you so much for sharing your
perspective on this and for all of

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00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:07,519
your time today. It's my pleasure. But you have to say June fourth,

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00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:12,199
just in time for Pride month,
just in time for there you go.

399
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,760
Here's here's if you if you have
someone who you need to give a

400
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,199
gift to during Pride Month, you
can go It's Not Like being Black by

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00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,000
Body, Bogum Boddie. Thank you
so much. Been my pleasure. Thank

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00:37:25,039 --> 00:37:29,480
you you've been listening to another edition
of The Federalist or radio Hour. I'm

403
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,079
I'm Eli Tashinski, culture editor here
at The Federalist. As always, you

404
00:37:31,079 --> 00:37:34,920
can email the show at radio at
the Federalist dot com, follow us on

405
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,000
exit fd r L s T.
We'll be back soon with more. Until

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then, be Lovers of freedom,
Fray