Welcome to episode twenty two of Get Out a Live a podcast or Me.
Your host and resident animal expert Ashley tells you a new animal attack story every
other week. Me. Oh my god, I don't know what happened?
What was that? Wish I do? I like spit like it was like
a spit bubble of my throat and it's like blocked all the sound. That's
two weeks in a row we've gone to start this and it's been a disaster.
That's the two episodes. Multiple times today we've tried to start the episode.
It's been disaster. And there your other host, Nick is going to
try to not get us canceled. Very difficult for me, but I'm gonna
do my best. Yeah. Speaking of so, we have a new Expert
Survivalist patron to announce. So for those of you who don't know, we
have an account on Patreon, so you can check out patreon dot com,
slash get at a Live Podcast or go to get at a Live Podcast dot
com and we have a button there for our Patreon and there's different tiers and
you can join and get different benefits. So Expert Survivalist is our highest tier
and one of the benefits is that we chat about you for a hot second
at the beginning of an episode after you join. So, Nick, would
you like music? No, no, this this person is no music.
They get no music. They still get our undying love and affection, but
this one was born with it. So our new expert survilis is my sister
Lindsey. Hey, thanks, goodbye, We're done with this. I'm sorry,
Nick. I thought he'd be more enthusiastic about shouting you out, but
he hasn't been. I think he's very much I need to be means it's
my thing. Yeah, well, thank you Lindsay for putting up with him
for his whole life, and thanks for joining us on Patreon. Give the
Nissan nephew much love for me. Anyways, Nick, what animal are we
talking about this week? Shacks? Talking about shacks, shocks. So this
week we're talking about sharks. We have an awesome guest on with us,
Jada Elcock, and I don't think she even really needs an intro, because
once you listen, you'll understand why we spoke to her about sharks, because
she's the best. Usually, like, I feel like we talked to a
lot of people who are a bit older than us. So it's really cool
talk to someone this time around that is like our age. And I had
no idea going into the interview like who she was, like what she's all
about. So I went to the interview, I was like, oh,
like this is like like we're just like talking to one of us, Like
we're just like having an interview with like another Ashley pretty much. But the
shark version, it was really fucking it was much smarter. Yeah, and
cooler. I mean that the bars, you know, not the highest.
Okay, well she like hurtled over it, she really Yeah, yeah,
she's great. She also was one of the few people I've met who is
able to like match nick energy level. She surpassed it by far, I
think. So yeah, anyways, so we're talking about sharks today. We're
not talking about well, I mean, the story I have for you is
about a specific species, but we'll get into statistics after the interview about like
how many shark attacks occur each year. But because the interview is kind of
long, because Nick and I get really excited to talk to people who like
talking about their species that they study, let's just get right into the attack
story. How does that sounds all right? We're going to August nineteenth,
two thousand and three, And that morning started like every other, Deborah Blanche
Fronzman donned a wetsuit and fins and began her swim in the ocean. Early
morning was her favorite time to swim, and she swam far from shore every
single morning at a villa, a villa I don't know, beach resort community
in California. And she was a sociology professor at Alan Hancock College. Just
for some background, this morning, her partner Tessa was watching her from the
beach with their two dogs. Did not get any information on the breed of
the dogs, their names. Well, then what's the point? I know?
It's so upsetting. And according to her son Alex, Debora swam three
to four times a week and she typically had friends who would swim with her.
But on this day she swam alone. But obviously like there are people
on the beach, she was just in the water. On on this morning,
Deborah was swimming amiss a group of seals. We're feeding on sardine.
I can already see this going very badly. Yep. I mean to be
fair, we wouldn't be talking about her if it didn't go badly. Great
point. You you make a great point. Yeah. I feel like I
always try to start these stories and be like kind of vague, but I'm
like, everyone knows why we're here. We all know it's about to go
very poorly for somebody. Yeah. So, as Deborah was swimming and the
blink of an eye, all of the seals disappeared, and according to witnesses,
a dorsal fin appeared and Deborah was gone. The shark could hit her
from below, and the dorsal fin appearance was as it breached out of the
cirt, like it as it breached the surface after Debora had been struck from
below. Usually at this time in the morning, there were no lifeguards,
however, ma on this day, Ports in Lewis Harbor District was hosting a
lifeguard competition at the Avilla Beach Pier, north of where Deborah was swimming.
No shit, I feel like this happened in the Hippo episode too. I
think it was right where like people like medical people are training nearby. Yeah.
Yeah, So Tim Borland was the first lifeguard on the scene and the
group had heard screaming and like calls for help and calls about a shark attack,
so they just all started running towards the direction of the screams, and
he said he and some lifeguards began swimming out to Deborah, but they had
no idea where she was, so they were swimming with their heads up,
and they hadn't even seen the attack it happen, so they weren't super sure
what they were getting into. But as they neared Debra's body, they knew
they too could be in danger because she was bleeding very heavily and she was
just floating face down. As Tim got closer, he couldn't see any wounds,
but he knew that she was unconscious, and he recalls that he didn't
feel like it was real as it was happening, which I can imagine you're
in a lifeguard competition. Someone screams, shark, I'm sure you're like,
maybe it was like part of the test. Yeah, that's what I would
have thought. I feel like, if you're the first one to get to
the actual person who's in danger, you win the lifeguard competition. Like you
like, no, there's no more contest, you are the winner. Also,
like, as you're telling the story, I imagine like a hundred lifeguards
like jumping off a pier and like, heck, absolutely booking it for this
woman. It's a really funny image in my head. But are really sad
of then? Yeah, I know it is weird. I wonder how many
life guards there were, but yeah, I hope, I hope it was
like a thousand of them, just all swimming at once, like we're about
they call fuck up this shark. I'm sure the shark was like, oh
God, okay, yeah, what's happening. Yeah. So either way,
the lifeguards pulled Debra from the water and as others on shore called nine one
one, Debra was loaded into the back of a pickup truck, where the
lifeguards attempted CPR and try to stop the bleeding, but as paramedics arrived,
they pronounced Debra dead at the scene. Wish I didn't make any jokes,
just now. You always do, We always do. This is why I
always almost got canceled every episode. We okay, I that's why I stay
off the internet first of all. Yeah, that's for everybody. So the
shark had bit just below her left hip on her thigh and cut her femoral
artery. Yeah that's a that's a big one. Yep. So the paramedics.
The paramedics were like, even if, like if she had been bit
anywhere else, she might have lost her leg but survived, but since her
femoral artery was cut, like, she had a zero percent chance of surviving
that. Yeah, I mean you have to just dragging her back from the
water. It takes so much time, and you have to do that thing
turniquated, like immediately. So because of this, it was likely that she
died very quickly, which I guess provides some solace to her loved ones.
But she also had wounds on her lower right leg which were not exactly a
bite. So my first thought when I heard that was it's possible it was
just like a wound from the shark's skin like rubbing up against her. Yeah,
it's just kind of like from the attack. This bumps her. Yeah,
because some people were so the reason I bring that up is some people
were like, oh, a bitter toys, so he was trying to eat
her. But for me, this really seems like mistaken identity. Oh yeah,
it really thought because she had flippers on and everything, so I'm sure
thought she was a seal. And I guess it's more proven because the shark
didn't stick around. The shark didn't holler away it like bitter and then was
like oh and then left. And you said it was early morning, you
know, like about the natural time. I want to say, it was
around like five or six am, like, so this is like still dusk
now for August, it's still same thing. Yeah, the sun's not up
all the way. Listen, we all the point. The point was made,
all right, but like the sun's not up all the way. It's
pretty dark out like shark's going to do what shark's going to do at that
point. Yeah, And we'll get into this later with Jada about like times
that are more dangerous to swim, So that was one of them. Deborah
Fronzman was the tenth person to die in California from a shark attack or a
shark bite, I should say since the nineteen fifties, and the beach closed
for a few days but has obviously since reopened. And at the college where
she taught sociology, Devor's colleagues and students made him a small mom with candles,
flowers, and cards outside of her office door, and her close friends
remarked that she died doing what she loved, which was swimming. That's really
sad. Yeah, the whole thing is sad, and I wish I had
like more to say about it. It's just it seems like it was an
accident on obviously, like on the shark's part, because she wasn't consumed or
anything. Was there any kind of like shark culling in the local area to
try and catch which one actually did these hack or did they do? No?
No, not that I could see. No. It was more of
just like the beach was closed and for a while people were told like,
hey, only swim and there's a lifeguard, be super cautious, maybe don't
go in the water. But from what I could understand, like once the
beach reopened, it was kind of just like back to normal. Well yeah,
I mean, what we're you supposed to do? It's the ocean,
Like, yeah, there's always sharks there. Like people might not understand this,
but there's always sharks like almost everywhere on the planet. Like they're there
because they don't have another place to go, So yeah, send them a
the Kansas. I think, Okay, I think it was a good reminder,
if anything, to be super like, if you see seals, maybe
don't swim back call. Yeah. Also, I was interested. I couldn't
find any information like how close she was, but all stories said she was
swimming among the seals, which is illegal because of the Marine protection the Marine
Mammal Protection Act, you cannot get close to marine mammals by any means.
Okay, yeah, but I mean the seals are swimming a whole lot faster
than she is, as long as she's like staying with them. Like,
I'm sure they came up to her like, well, h swam into an
area they were going to, this kind of met by chape. Yeah,
that's yeah, that's a good point. That's probably more right. I'm sure
she was very smart and lost. I don't think she was doing the fucking
David Hasselhoff in the SpongeBob movie and like motor boating across the water to go
get them. What do you know? Have you not seen the SpongeBob movie?
Are you talking about the part where David Hasselhoff like carries them on his
back. Yeah, he's not going towards seals, no, but he's like
motor boating, like he's going fast, you know. Wow. Yeah,
Okay, So that's a great reference that many people will get. Many people
will not, but I get it. I just don't know if it was
worth it. The Internet will tell us. Okay, Well, what a
great segue into our interview with Jada. Hello, my name is Jada Elcock.
I am a PhD student in the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Woodshole Oceanographic Institution
Joint Program. That's a mouthful, so everyone just calls it the MIT who
EJP. So yeah, and I study sharks, movement, ecology, habitat
use. I'm interested in like like you know, when you see a stranger
on the street and you're just like, I wonder what they do for a
living. Do they need to go to the grocery store today? I wonder
if they have kids they got to pick them up from school? Just like
how do you exist in your day to day? I ask the same questions
about sharks, but obviously frame them a little differently because they have different problems
than we do. So stuff like that of like, how do you deal
with migration that's a big thing that you do, Why, how and why?
What are you following? What is how does it benefit you? How
does it? What does it do to your body? How are you interacting
with your immediate environment? Right now in this exact plane, Like, what's
it like when you dive deep and then when you come back up? Like
that kind of stuff? Just do you? What do you do? How
do you exist in the world? So, yeah, that's me and I
love that you can ask those questions of animals and it's not creepy. But
if you were to follow a person all day and be like, why do
you go to the grocery store? What are you following? It'd be a
lot. You put a tracker on a human being, You're like, that's
just stalking, So like, maybe don't do that. Definitely tell us more
about Minorities and shark science too. Yes, Minorities and Shark Sciences aka MISS
is a nonprofit that me and three other black women in shark science co founded
in June of twenty twenty. Oh my gosh, it's been like a year
and a half getting up to two years now. Yeah, time doesn't exist
anymore. But yeah, so it's it's a profit that we founded to create
a space for women of color and gender minorities of color in the field of
shark science because historically it's been a very white, male dominated field, as
have many fields. Every field has been, but we kind of were like,
you know, there's not many of us. I don't really know many,
and so there's it was Jaine Jasmine Graham kind of reached out to me
Ammani Weber Schultz and Carla Jackson. She was like, we're the only four
black women in shark science that I know. Let's start a club or nonprofit
type thing. And then two weeks later we launched a nonprofit and we've got
partners with all kinds of different organizations and providing workshops and internships and like free
shark related like educational content that anybody can access on our website, webinars and
networking and like professional development kind of things for our members and all kinds of
stuff. So we've got a lot going on. We have more to come
in twenty two. So if you're interested and you want to follow along,
keep an eye on our website Missilasmo dot org, and keep an eye on
our socials on Twitter and Instagram, Miss underscore Elasmo. So it sounds you's
been a busy year or two. Oh yeah, very much. So all
that on top of your normal research stuff, on top of my grad school,
on top of my own personal science communication as well. It's a lot
going on. Yeah, because Okay, so Nick, you don't know because
you don't have Jada makes incredible videos about like all different kinds. I'll have
to send you some now. But yeah, so if you want to talk
about your Twitter videos too, because they're so delightful, sure, yeah,
Oh my gosh. I love making them. I've been making them for I
think it's been I think it's been three years now, wow, or no,
maybe it's been No, No, it's been two years. I started
at the beginning of twenty twenty, like right before everything shut down, which
is why I thought it was twenty nineteen because it wasn't quite COVID yet,
yep. And I just started making these videos on TikTok. They were not
good to begin with. They were so slow. I don't know why I
looked so bored, like, I don't know, but I have a ton
of fun making them. I just basically collect a whole bunch of facts about
a certain species or a certain animal and then talk about them as fast as
I can on TikTok, and I post them on Twitter and Instagram. And
actually, this is super exciting, and I'm gonna make a TikTok video about
this, but I haven't like told TikTok yet. Hank and John Green have
decided to sponsor me for the year of twenty twenty two and send me some
money to continue making educational content. And I'm so excited. I'm so grateful,
So I don't if they listen to this podcast, Hank and John Green,
thank you so much. I appreciate you, guys. Congratulation. Oh
my god, that's so cool, fucking sick. I'm so excited. I'm
gonna buy like free diving gear that's gonna like be able to help me with
my research and stuff. So like free diving fins are expensive, like they're
really good. Ones are like one hundred two hundred dollars. Oh my god,
I'm gonna buy some free dive fins. I'm gonna buy a wet suit.
I'm gonna get a weight belt, I'm gonna get all kinds of stuff
that I know is gonna help me with my recreational ocean activities and my research
ocean activities. Oh my god, that is so cool. That's so awesome
and so well deserved. Nick, you really have to see them. I'll
have to, honestly, so you're gonna be getting all this stuff to go
down is the ocean with the sharks and they hang out with them, Yeah,
I have. So last year I did some whale shark tagging stuff.
We were about one hundred miles off the coast of like Massachusetts and Rhode Island
in the Oh my gosh, I always get this wrong. Northeast Seamounts and
Canyons Marine National Monument. Everyone just calls it the Canyons or the Sea Mounts,
depending on where you are in the monument. It's huge, and apparently
in the summertime they've got all kinds of like it's so alive. You've got
like manta rays and devil rays. You've got all kinds of tuna and whales
and whale sharks as well. And so we went out and we put a
tag on a whale shark. But there you can't like obviously reel them up
on like a hook and line and bring them on the boat, tag them
and release them, so you have to get in the water with them.
So this summer was like my first experience in the wild with sharks, and
my first shark was probably like this thirty five foot long female wheel shark and
wow. The problem was though, like my fins that I have, I
got from, to be honest, a thrift store and they were six dollars
and they're too small, so they were not good and it made it very
difficult to do what I needed to do, which is why I'm excited to
now get new free diving fins that are gonna be super helpful. How do
you even get into this? Like how did you even get the chance to
tag sharks? Like how did you get interested in sharks? Yeah, that's
a really good question, because I grew up in the desert. Okay,
I lived. I lived in Illinois till I was ten, and then I
lived in Phoenix, Arizona, basically until I was like twenty two. So
I went to school on a mountain surrounded by desert in Flagstaff, Arizona,
and it was gorgeous and that that was where I could afford to go.
But I was like focusing my classes on wildlife classes because I knew I wanted
to research sharks. When I was really little, I honestly was afraid of
sharks, as I feel like a lot of people are, and I was
fascinated with the ocean still, but I started to learn more as I watched
like documentaries like Animal Planet, NAT Geo and stuff like that, that like,
they're actually very misunderstood. They're not just these murdering machines. They're just
animals that live in the ocean that just happened to have big shark, big
sharp teeth, and they just exist and they're really cool. And so I
figured, since a lot of them are endangered or like turned into these like
villains, I figured maybe if there were a group of animals that like kind
of needed some extra help, maybe it would be them. And so I
decided I'm doing shark science. And people were like, that's competitive. You
should have a plan B, and I was like nah, And so I
just simply didn't have a plan B. And I am lucky enough to have
made all the connections I've made to get me to where I am today.
Yeah, it seems like you're doing pretty well. So good call, Thank
you. So you also just mentioned the bad rep that they get. So
why do you think that is such bad pr Why do you think people have
become so afraid of them over time? Well, I don't think jaws helped
obviously. And then you have the meg it's a fun monster movie. But
good god, I got the most ridiculous questions after that. No, the
meg is not alive. Yes, oh my god, I'm gonna lose it
now. Everyone asks me if I've ever seen Sharknado, and I have not,
and I will. I refuse to watch it. I'll never see I've
never seen it. I couldn't even tell you something about it. Are you
so stupid? I assume the movies in the name, so I don't really
need to see it. Yeah, that's it's sharks in a tornado. I
really don't like I've seen pictures. I don't think I need to see it
in three D. I don't know. But I feel like they get such
this bad reputation because they just happen to be bigger and stronger than we are,
and we kind of see them as like these evil figures, because you
know, every once in a while, like someone does get like have negative
encounter with a shark, and sometimes it does end in a fatality, and
that's really unfortunate. But it's not like they're actively hunting us down. But
that's kind of the way that we portray them in the media and kind of
view them in general. With especially like after Jaws and everything, they're like,
oh, this shark is chasing us, And if you've seen the Shallows,
it's like, this shark is just circling this tiny island and waiting for
the tide to rise. So this girl ends up in the water, and
I'm like, this isn't realistic. This shark doesn't It's not gonna be like
I'm gonna wait for you. It's gonna be like, this is difficult.
I give up. I'm gonna go find something else to eat, you know,
So, I don't know it. I think it's really frustrating. And
I think another part is the fact that the media only ever shows you negative
shark encounters rather than telling you all of the amazing things that sharks do for
the oceans and why they are so important for ocean ecosystems. And that's one
of the reasons why I think science communication is so important, because if we're
not communicating accurate science, then we're not really seeing the full picture and we're
only seeing the negative sides of things that the media is telling us. So
kind of coming off of that, how do you feel about Shark Week on
Discovery? I think that's like good for the reputation of sharks. Do you
think that kind of hampers said, because you see these giant monsters coming out
and attacking, you know, these black booies, so it kind of I
can say how people make it scared by watching that. Yeah, I think
that Shark Week was one of the things that got me interested in sharks.
I don't think that it's as educational as it used to be. If I'm
being honest, I want it to be the thing that like sparks people's interest
in sharks and is like, actually, these things are really cool. And
they do have some shows about like conservation and like let's talk about the importance
of sharks, but sometimes it seems like some of the underlying themes are still
like oh, scary Jaws music, and I'm like, but this, I
mean, I get that it's for the views and the fanfare and the sensationalism,
but it shouldn't be about sensationalism. It should be about education and showing
you why sharks matter and why we shouldn't be afraid of them. And I
don't know, I think that it gets frustrating and I want Shark Week to
be what it used to be. And I think that there are still some
shows that I hang on to and I'm like, I like this one.
It's teaching me about deep sea sharks or something. But this is the other
thing. I feel like half of Shark Week is just like it's just the
same ten sharks over and over again. Yeah, it's great whites and maybe
Megledon if they can find a shark that looks somewhat like it, if they
can find a Meglaedon. Though, even if they can't find a Magladon,
they're gonna bring it up. Yep. But like, what about the swell
shark. It's biofluorescent. We can't see it glow, but they can see
each other glow. That's super cool. Right, I already didn't know that,
right, What about the bonnetead shark? Does Shark Week tell you that
it's the only omnivorous shark species in the entire world that we know about?
No, that's so cool. I know this, and watching sharks a toddler
exactly. This is my point, Like, I don't know, I feel
like you're just you're missing the cool some of the coolest sharks out there,
Like I feel like wabbagongs maybe get some attention but not as much as they
should. Oh what a wabbagong like? A like a wabbagong shark. So
basically they look like coral and they're they're very well camouflaged. They have these
little like tassly things on their face and it basically they camouflage in plain sight.
And these are a type of shark that doesn't have to keep moving in
order to breathe, so they'll just sit there and wait and then a fish
will come by. It's called bugle pumping basically where they pull water into their
mouth and that's how they can breathe while they're sitting there. But they open
their mouths so fast it creates like a vacuum and pulls the water and the
fish in and that's how they hunt. And I'm like, why are we
not talking about this more often? They're so cool. They're also so cute.
I love them pictures. Yeah, I will. This is exactly why
I wanted you to come on, because I was like, of all the
people I've seen talk about science, like, obviously people get excited about their
species, but no one has gotten as excited about anything as I've seen you
get excited, especially about sharks. And I was like, I know this
is gonna be a big one that people are afraid of. My mom personally
will not go in the ocean because of sharks. So I was like,
we're gonna make this episode with Jada. We're gonna break down sharks and how
cool they are, and hopefully someone will leave being like a little less afraid
of them. Hopefully they're so cool. I mean, there's over five hundred
species of sharks, so I feel like there's there's one for everybody at least,
like you know, you can pick out one that you're just like,
you should introduce your mom to, Like the pajama cat shark. They are
these the stripey guys, and they're so cute and they just like sit in
like little cuddle puddles and just rest all day. They're so lazy. They're
cats. They're cat sharks. Oh my god, they're so small and cute.
Right, you should show your mom those. I think she can kick
out of those. They're very cute. I will absolutely do that. Wow,
Holy crap. And I mean you kind of touched on it, which
I was thinking was kind of the case where it seems like everything you hear
about sharks is just about people being attacked. So do you think the number
of shark attacks have increased as more people recreate in the ocean, or do
you think it's the same amount of attacks but people just report them all the
time whenever they happen. I think that that's really hard to say, because
maybe in some areas it's increasing, maybe in some areas it's decreasing. But
the biggest thing is that now we have social media, and so when you
when an attack does happen, it's broadcast worldwide instantly, like it's it happens
so fast. But then every single news source picks up the same story as
well. So it seems like you're seeing so many stories about it, but
there's really not. Again, there's just not that many shark attacks every year.
I think they kill on average like five ish people, five or six
people every year, and we're killing at least one hundred million of them.
That's a pretty conservative estimate. So I mean, it's unfortunate when it does
happen, and of course, like that's devastating and we don't like to see
that happen, but we're going into their territory. I mean, I think
it's pretty unfair to be like shark infested WATERSM like, that's where they live.
I don't really know where you want them. What do you want them
to go on land where also were supposed to go. I don't know what
you're expecting, right, And I've also seen like articles about Cape Cod and
they're like, ah, more sharks on Cape Cod fear everywhere, And I'm
like, that's because we hunted seals a lot and there weren't enough prey items,
so the sharks left, and now we've recovered the seal populations, so
guess what the predators are going to come back. That's just kind of the
food chain. That's the way things go. So honestly, it's a really
good sign. This is what I'm talking about, how sharks can tell you
how healthy the ocean is. They can tell you about an ecosystem because they're
these top predators on the cape, right and they're hunting these seals. And
if the seals all disappear and the sharks disappear, You're like, Okay,
well there's a problem here. Now that all the sharks are coming back,
You're like, this is a really good sign, Like the seals are healing,
this environment is going back to I guess sort of what it was before
we started to like hunt everything to extinction and whatnot. But it's it's frustrating
to see so many negative articles about sharks when the headlines could be so different.
They could be like, we should be excited the seals are back,
and so are the sharks. This ecosystem is becoming healthy again, rather than
ah, the sharks are back. Everyone panic, you know what I mean?
Yeah? Absolutely, yeah. So when those bad encounters do happen,
what sharks do you find are usually the main culprit? Like we all know,
great whites are the one that you know, everyone thinks about. But
are they really the ones that are causing most of the incidents or is it
like smaller ones kind of like taking bites out people's feet. I want to
say that white sharks are responsible for the most fatalities. That may have changed
in recent years, and not one hundred percent sure, but the fatal encounters
you see are probably most likely going to be white sharks. Oceanic white tips,
bull sharks, and tiger sharks are going to be up there in like
the top couple. And you do see, you know, examples of smaller
sharks maybe like I don't know Silky's or even nurse sharks. Like people think
that nurse sharks are super chill, and so they'll like pick them up and
try and play with them, and I'm like, that's still completely wild animal.
I'm like, your cat's gonna scratch you. You think a wild shark
that doesn't understand what's happening is going to react well to you picking it up.
No, So, like there's definitely examples of more minor negative encounters from
smaller sharks, but I think the more the more fatal ones are going to
be those bigger ones just because they're they're bigger, and you know, some
of their hunting styles, like they're great white. They attack seals from below
because that's just you know, with they're countershading on top. They're dark,
so if you're looking at it from below or from above, it kind of
blends in with the darker ocean floor. And they're white on the bottom because
if you're looking at them from below, it kind of blends in with the
light of you know, the sun coming in. So they attack seals from
below because that's just kind of what they've evolved to do. That's like their
best method of hunting. So if a white shark we're to see a surfer
like how they do sometimes and think that you're a seal or a sea lion
or a sea turtle or something, they're going to use their typical method of
hunting. And that's just not good for people because we're small and squishy and
they are large and in charge and have big teeth. So again, it's
not necessarily that they're trying to harm us. They if they knew what we
were, chances are there wouldn't there wouldn't be anything like you know, Usually
it's an investigatory bite. It's like a dog like they come up or a
baby they come up and they're like, oh, I don't have hands,
what do I do? I'm just gonna bite it. Yep. The problem
is again they just have really big sharp teeth, so mistaken identity, investigatory
bites or even just bumps with their nose, that kind of thing that's just
gonna help them figure out what you are. And sometimes it does end in
tragedy unfortunately for people, but it's not a malicious act on their part.
It's literally just them trying to figure out what's going on in the world.
I mean, We've talked about a few species like beaver who have bit one
person on the leg and they just happened to hit an artery and then the
person dies. And I wonder, and how many cases with sharks, it's
like they weren't trying to eat you. They just happen to bite you and
it's a huge mouth and a lot of teeth. Then it just happened to
hit somewhere that was fatal, you know what I mean. Yeah, I
think that that happens a lot. You know, it hits a lot of
people get hit in like the leg, and you're gonna cut your femoral artery
and that's a lot of blood coming out all at the same time, and
that's that's gonna be. You're gonna need very quick medical attention, and it
is unfortunate. But again, they're just you know, trying to figure out
what you are, and they're bigger than you, and they just happen to
hit the wrong part of your body. Again, a lot of people survive
shark attacks because they get medical attention quickly. And usually it's because the shark
will bite you and then be like, oh, that's not what I thought
it was and then just disappear. They're not gonna they're not trying to consume
you. They just don't know what you are. Do you find that there
are certain places in the world that attacks happen more often, or like the
higher rate of them. I think I saw an article that said Florida.
I'd have to fact check that, so disclaimer, I'm not one hundred and
ten percent sure, But I also wouldn't be surprised because there are a lot
of different species in Florida and also Florida. But yeah, I think that
that wouldn't surprise me if that's still an accurate. Thing, is that Florida
is a higher number of negative encounters just because they have, especially in the
summertime, you have so many people in the water recreationally, and there's just
a lot of different types of sharks, and a lot of them are coastal
species and they'll come closer to shore, and so that it wouldn't be surprised
me if that were still accurate. So, if you are recreating somewhere where
there's sharks, how can you do so safely? And my mom specifically would
like to know if there are certain human behaviors in water that like attract them
like maybe splashing or something like that. Yeah, so splashing is not great
because it kind of sends vibrations similar to that of like a distressed or dying
fish, and so they're gonna be like, ooh, what is that feels
like food? I'll go over there and check it out. And if you're
acting distressed, just don't act like prey, basically, I think to do
so safely. A lot of sharks hunt at down and dusk, so I
personally don't like to go in the water when it's dark out. And if
you're in very murky water, that's another place that you know you can find
sharks hunting. Obviously not all the time, but like especially don and dusk
in murky waters. I'm especially thinking of bull sharks right now, but a
lot of different sharks do that. So stay in clearer waters, stay in
water probably with like larger groups of people, and if you do happen to
see a shark, just stay calm, don't thrash around, because again that's
kind of you know, acting like a distressed animal, which might intrigue a
shark. Is that's maybe not the best move. Stay calm, keep your
eyes on it, and slowly make your way back to shore. But I
think in any situation, panicking is not the best way to go. Stay
calm, assess the situation. Usually, I mean, you can kind of
tell if a shark is getting irritated or like what's going on, if they're
super curious or what's happening. Usually they'll just kind of like be around and
be like, oh, what is that going on over there? And if
you keep your eyes on them and you just kind of calmly and you know,
I am a large, healthy organism, I'm gonna go back this way,
they'll just be like, all right, cool, have a nice day.
I don't know what you are, but continue on and they probably won't
bother you. People say they're kind of like bees. If you don't bother
them, they're probably not going to bother you. Every once in a while,
you get stung by a rogue bee. That's just like, ah,
I don't like you. But you know, it doesn't happen that often.
So you know, if you get stung by a shark, it's not really
the same effect. It's not the same effect, but wildlife is very similar.
Just like, don't bother them and they'll probably leave you. Not if
you listen to the podcast, but it's kind of what we say in every
episode is don't fuck with it and won't fuck with you. Yeah, usually
good advice, but kind of coming off of what you're saying about, like,
you know, they're kind of not sure what's going on. You know,
they don't like people. One of our Patriot members, Jeremy Montoya,
he wants to to story that a swimmer swam towards an approaching shark and the
shark I heard a way because there's theorized that they're not used to things swimming
at them. Do you think this is true or do you think just a
maniac making up a story. I haven't heard anything like that before. And
also I would assume that some sharks do indeed have things swimming at them,
maybe not necessarily from the front, but I mean some sharks eat other sharks,
killer whales eat some species of sharks, So it's not that like all
sharks are the apex predator and nothing will ever come at them ever. And
it also that I'm sure that that would depend on the species as well,
and how big the shark is. Is it a juvenile and it's like that's
a large thing. I don't know what it is flee I don't know,
but I guess it would depend. But I've never heard of a thing that
Ooh, sharks are afraid of things that swim at them. I've never heard
anything like that before. I would assume that that's only true if it were
like a small juvenile shark. That's like everything is larger than I am.
I'm not big enough to defend myself yet, that's my theory. Yeah,
that sounds good to me. And Jeremy also is wondering, which is something
that I have heard too, is it true that punching an attacking shark in
the nose will stop it? And I've also heard like poking their eyes,
which I just eyes gross me out. But like, if a shark is
biting you, in theory, would it is there's something about the nose that
makes it release. So they do have an organ called the ampulaved Lorenzini in
their nose, and it's basically like electro reception, So it's a sensitive area.
So if you were to punch it in the nose, it probably would
overload some of the senses right and probably overwhelm it. In my personal opinion,
if a part of your body is in a shark's mouth, maybe don't
put another part of the body close to the shark's mouth. That's maybe not
the best move because on the off chance that it decides to open its mouth
at that moment, your hand's probably gonna go right in as well. So
I wouldn't do that. Maybe like a last resort type of thing, the
eyes or the gills is probably a good move, just because both they're very
sensitive areas. They want to protect their eyes obviously, so that they can
see and continue to hunt effectively, even though they have other senses that are
helpful with hunting, Like you know, sit is useful for most sharks,
and you know obviously they need their gills to breathe and they don't want them
to be damaged. They want to protect these important and sensitive parts of their
body. So if in theory you were to have some negative encounter with a
shark where your leg ended up in its mouth or something, I would recommend
not the nose until like last resort type of thing, and like if you
can reach something else that's sensitive, I would go for that first, just
because you don't want to Basically you're aiming towards the mouth and I don't think
that that's the best idea. Fair absolutely fair, So I guess he kind
of answered it there. But like, if you already are in the middle
of a shark encounter, like what would you suggest to get either safely,
whether it's just surviving or getting out of you know, the shark's mouth.
Yeah, if you aren't all, if you aren't being bitten, like I
said before, just kind of like keep your eyes on it, like,
don't turn your back to it. I feel like I'm describing like an encounter
with like a mountain lion or something. Because I'm from Arizona. This is
what people say. They're like, don't turn your back to it. It'll
pounce on you. But like, you know, just keep your eyes on
it again, safely and quietly, relaxed, calm swim back to shore.
No like crazy sudden jerky movements. Just be you know, be in the
water. You are in this habitat. They come across other things swimming all
the time. It's not like they've never seen something, and then suddenly you're
there and they're like, I have to investigate every single time, you know,
So just calmly, act like you belong there, and then swim back
to shore. I'd also recommend be with other human beings. I don't like
the idea of swimming alone, not just because of the wildlife. What if
I were to like bump my head and drown, that's really scary. So
if you're with other people, obviously, if anything were to happen and you
have this negative encounter with a shark, obviously have them like call an ambulance,
help you, you know, in any way that they can. I
don't know what's it called a tourniquet. I almost said a tunicate. That's
a different that's all. That's wildlife, that's an ocean animal. Not that
a tourniquet. You know, it's a kid for tagging tunas exactly. Yeah,
So you know, if that were to happen again, very rarely does
it ever, But if it were to happen, you know, like make
a tournique, call an ambulance, get medical attention, that kind of stuff.
But I think that the biggest thing is to just stay calm, stay
collected, be rational about the situation, and you will likely be fine.
Yeah, And I wonder how many people have the sphere of sharks, because
like, obviously drones are a thing now, and there's so many drone videos
of sharks swimming near people, and I feel like people take that. I
was like, holy shit, sharks were so close to me. That's scary.
But it's like sharks were so close to you and chose to go the
other way, which I feel like is the takeaway that you should be talking
from that is that it happens probably all the time, yes, absolutely before
drones, Like we have so few we like, we don't have many shark
attacks, right, but there are people in the water every single day.
Obviously, sharks are in the water every single day, and people are like,
oh, every time a shark sees a person, this person's gonna die.
And I'm like, it just doesn't make sense to me. I'm like,
there's they we cross paths with them constantly, I've worked with them.
I've been in the water with sharks, and I've never been bitten. The
worst I've ever gotten is shark burn because there it's like a like road rash
or like carpet burn because their skin is so rough. That's like the worst
injury of anyone that I've ever known that's gotten from a shark, or like
they'll tail slappy in the face and you're like, whoh, I'm dizzy for
a minute. Cool glasses back on. We're good. We encounter them so
often, and I've seen some of these drone videos. Honestly, I think
they're fascinating. I would love to be that person, like on an inner
tube, just like watching it swim past, because it's not interested. It's
like I'm going about my day whatever. I've seen one where it's like people
were freaking out because they were like, this hammerhead almost tried to eat this
guy. And I was like, if you watch the video close enough,
there's a fish directly next to him. The shark goes towards the guy.
The fish swims away and it follows the fish, and I'm like, it
wasn't even after the dude, there was a there was an actual parae item
in the water. I don't know. I agree. I think that people
are getting the wrong message from some of these drone footages, and I get
it, like these are animals that have resulted in the death of people,
and that's really scary for some people, but they're also just organisms that exist
in the ocean. And to be able to see one that close and have
it completely uninterested in you is a gorgeous experience that I am excited to have
again. So especially the hammerhead video. When I saw maybe it was you
that I saw it from, I was like, imagine having the opportunity to
be so close to a giant hammerhead shark. H liked. So I tagged
one recently you did. It was like a three meter long great hammerhead and
it was gorgeous. Wow, where was that, Florida? And when I
was tagging the whale sharks out in the case, there was well, we
think was a smooth hammerhead. It might have been a scalloped hammerhead. I'm
not sure, but it was. We were tagging the whale shark and it
was just down below us, like, however many feet wait, this is
our hammerhead signal. I was just looking up at us, like what's going
on up there? And anytime it would like if we were to try and
like swim with the whale shark to follow it a little bit to get the
tag on if we went anywhere near it, it was like, oh my
god, what are you? It was just like there's such WIMPs. Honestly,
a lot of sharks are very skittish and they're like, don't come near
me. I don't want anything to do with you. So I don't know.
It was a really cool experience. I was like, there's literally a
hammerhead right there. They're so cool. That's so cool. And this question
I didn't know where or how to fit in. But one of our patrons,
Amanda Taylor, was like, does sharks sleep? Which is valid?
I don't know, not in the way that we do. So some sharks
can rest. There are sharks that like rest and stop moving, like those
ones that I was talking about that have that bugle pumping ability where they can
pull water in their mouth and over their gills to keep breathing. They don't
have to keep swimming in order to breathe, so like nurse sharks or cat
sharks or something like that, they can sit on the bottom and just rest
for a while and buckle pump to breathe and they're totally fine. Again,
not necessarily sleeping the way that we do, but they can, you know,
rest. And then other sharks they're called obligate ram ventilators, which means
that they do have to keep moving and have their mouth open slightly in order
to get water to go over their gills. Because they don't have that bugle
pumping ability, So that would be like a bull shark or a white shark,
or like most of your bigger oceanic species. Right. I think that
there are probably papers out there and like evidence to suggest that they rest,
but obviously not in the same way that these other sharks do, because they
can't just stop moving but like swimming into a current and just kind of like
letting their body rest a little bit more and not actively trying to like move
their tail as vigorously as they would if they were swimming against a current or
I guess with a current, because they'll go against the current so that the
currents like going straight into their mouth right and over their gills, so they
can't rest. It's just not quite the same, gotcha, nick, I
feel like now is a good time for your evolution question. I read something
today that sharks are basically the same that they were fifty million years ago.
They kind of evolved a fuck ton of long a time ago. What makes
them such a perfect like design? Why? How have they not changed in
that long with time? So that's a really good question. So sharks are
older than trees. Fun fact, they've been around for about four hundred to
four hundred and fifty million years, and trees have been around for I think
it was like three hundred and eighty million years. So sharks are older than
trees, and they're much older than the dinosaurs. This is a shout out
to Dustin Growick. I don't know if you guys know Dustin, but you
know what, sharks are older than dinosaurs, which means they're better. Come
at me, buddy. But also I feel like I have to say that
age doesn't always mean that they're better, because then Dustin's going to come back
and you say that he's better than me because he's older than me. But
anyway, it's fine. Point is I'm better than Dustin and sharks are better
than dinosaurs. I'm just kidding, Dustin. I love you. But so,
yeah, they're super old. They've been around for the longest of times,
and they've been relatively unchanged for most of that time, and I feel
like, in general, we're still trying to figure out exactly why that is.
So they branched off from bony fish right, and they they weren't like
the first group, and then bone became a thing. They branched off from
bony fish and said I don't need your bone anymore and just decided to go
with cartilage. Obviously, it's been very effective for them. I think part
of it is just that they've evolved into to just be effective in like every
ecosystem in the ocean that you could possibly think of. You've got deep sea,
you've got tropical, You've got Arctic sharks, which is wild, like
the Greenland shark lives out in the Arctic. You've got venomous sharks, and
you've got whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, we have to talk about
that. Dogfish and like hound sharks have like they're typically smaller, but they
have like spines on their dorsal fins and they they're they're venomous. It's not
like anything crazy, Like if you got pricked by one, you'd I'm sure
you'd be fine. I don't think that it would be any worse than like
us sting ray. I'm not one hundred percent sure how potent it is,
but you'll be fine. I don't think anyone's died from dog shark venom.
I've never heard of that before. Yeah. Yeah, they've just kind of
like permeated throughout the entire ocean. And they're like, Okay, that niche
is open, that nich is open, that n itch is open. Everyone
just go pick a niche and stay there. And they were like cool,
So they picked an inch and they stayed there, and here they are millions
of years later. I think there was a paper that actually came out recently
that like a very large chunk of sharks died off a couple million years ago.
I don't remember how many million, like fifty million, something like that,
and we thought that like, for the longest time, they were like
they've been untouchable, and for the most part, they have been, but
there was that one event that were not exact sure what happened, but it
killed off a lot of sharks, which is surprising. But the fact that
they survived it kind of is proving your point that they're so well adapted to
their environment. I don't know how they survived whatever event this was, but
they're still everywhere, and so I think that a huge part of it is
just because they were able to take over all these empty niches and that they've
just been very effective, active predators, and good for them. I'm proud
of them them having those specific niches that they kind of go with with global
warming going on, Like, do you see them starting to like move into
different areas and certain sharks are popping up in areas they didn't see them in
the past. Yeah. Actually a paper came out recently that tiger sharks are
starting to move further north, probably because of climate change. And I'm sure
we're probably going to see this happening with a lot of other species, is
my prediction. And it might be because of lack of prey availability so they
have to go find somewhere else, or because the water is getting too warm
and as ectotherms, they can't regulate their own body temperature, so maybe they
need to go they can't get that hot and in other places, you know,
we're seeing extremes, not just everything getting warmer all the time. So
when it does get colder, maybe they'll have to go further south. I'm
not sure, but at the moment, yeah, we are seeing evidence that
climate change is affecting that, at least in tiger sharks at the moment.
And that came out I think a week or two ago, so that was
a very new thing. I recommend you check it out. It was really
cool. But yeah, there is evidence that we're seeing that happening, which
is for me, it's not scary because they're coming into contact with people.
For me, it's scary because they're losing their habitat and they're having to find
new habitat or adjust their habitat based on the terrible things that we're doing to
the planet, and that makes me really sad. So it's more of like
a concern for them rather than a concern for us. But I guess potentially,
depending on where they end up, it could be a concern for us
having more negative interactions with them just because of what areas they're now able to
occupy, which again is our fault. But we don't want anything bad to
come of that for them or us, So I guess we'll see what happens.
Are you also worried about ocean acidification with them or is that like not
going to bother them as much as maybe some other species like corals and stuff.
Ocean acidification is a really big concern for calcifying organisms like corals and different
types of like plankton and stuff. I think that it definitely could cause issues
for other organisms as well. I'm trying to think of I'm no chemist,
so I'm trying to think of like the ocean chemistry and how that would mess
with sharks, but like, I'm sure there's a way, right, and
well maybe even just like their food, like some sharks food is going to
be fucked by the ocean asertification, right, I mean, yeah, I'm
sure that, like you know, it'll kind of cascade up the food chain
and have like if these corals are getting messed up and you're having like this
coral bleaching because of it, I mean, that's destroying reefs. And reefs
account for I think like twenty five percent of all like the biodiversity in the
ocean or something like that, some crazy huge number. And you have you
know, reef sharks that depend on the fish, that depend on smaller fish,
that depend on the corals, and so things are gonna cascade up the
food chains and start to really mess with things. And we are part of
that food chain. We are not like just we like to think we're so
far removed from all of this because we live in fancy houses and whatnot,
but we are not removed from this. Like especially if you know, like
communities that rely on seafood and the ocean, that's they're gonna be so heavily
impacted by all of the things that we're doing. So yeah, sorry,
I'm kind of like rambling, getting a little off topic, but yes,
I think that ocean acidification can affect sharks in certain ways, and probably some
species more than others, just based on like where they live and things like
that. But yeah, it's quite unfortunate. Yeah, it all sucks being
a wildlife billogist. You're just like, and there's global warming and ocean a
certification and acid rain and yeah, and then you like turn towards like,
you know what, let me just like go hang out with my friends.
And you're like, oh wait, I can't because COVID and everything is on
fire, and I'm like, there's it seems like there's not much hope in
the world, but hey, there's always hope, and I am an optimist,
So I don't know, follow me on Twitter for optimistic views. I
don't know, killing it. There's hope, but I don't know. My
brain is like, I don't know, it's been a long day. My
brain's not functioning, and maybe it's not as an optimist. It's Monday.
Maybe I'm not as optimistic as I should be, right now just because I've
had a long day. But like, I don't know, there's always hope
and we should look on the bright side because there's always a bright side and
hug your family. I don't know. It was so poorly articulated. No,
I don't know what I'm saying for half the shit I talked about it.
Oh God, Okay, so I guess last one so we can end
on a high note. What is your favorite experience you've had with a shark
if you haven't already talked about it. Well, so the whale shark things
were really cool because I got to go out and tag whale sharks, which
was really awesome. But I guess a more personal experience just because I worked
with this shark. I was an intern at Odyssey Aquarium in Scottsdale, Arizona.
If you ever have the chance to go, ten out of ten recommend
they take very good care of their animals. All of the staff is fantastic.
They're a fantastic aquarium and they're very caring. So I know that not
everyone supports aquariums because you know animals in captivity. They do a very good
job with their animals, and I've seen it firsthand. But they had a
big female lemon shark there when I was interning there in twenty eighteen. Oh
my god, that's four years ago. I am, it's fine. I
just had an epiphane. I'm freaking out. Anyway, when I was working
there, they had a big female lemon shark and her nickname was Dot because
she had a big white spot on her face and she was so cute and
everyone loved her. She was like Queen Bee. She was like old.
She was the largest shark they had. I think she was like ten feet
long and like three hundred pounds or something like that. She was huge.
But our first day there, me and the other two Aquaris interns, is
we were going through and just having like a tour of like here are all
the exhibits, like the back house of the exhibits, this is how you
feed the animals, blah blah blah. And so we were down on top
of like the top level of the shark exhibit, and as we were climbing
down, you hear this huge splash and our mentor Kyle was like, oh
my god, who fell in? He like panicked, No one fell in.
He looked by, he looked back and dot basically whipped her tail and
splashed the shit out of everybody and was like, welcome rookies, get ready
for Hell week. I don't know, like it just seems so funny.
And she was just like Queen Bee showing us whose boss and we were all
drenched from head to toe for the rest of the day, had squad she
shoes because she decided to make herself known and it was It was amazing and
I love her. We all had a really big laugh about it. Once
Kyle realized that none of his interns fell into the shark exhibit, and he
was like, Okay, thank god, I can laugh now, everything's fine.
But yeah, that one was really fun. I like that one.
That's so cute. It was awesome, and I feel like goes to show
that sharks also have personalities. They're not just mindless fish out in the ease.
Yes. Actually, quick note on that. I feel like people think
that fish are dumb and that they just like don't have brains. Not true.
They obviously have brains, but they can be trained. I've done it.
I have trained guitarfish, which are rays. They're related to sharks,
and also all of the sharks of the aquarium were trained to eat from a
target. So each species was trained to go to their specific target. So
like dinnerse sharks had like a white bow tie, and like the sandbar sharks
had like a gray bulls eye or something like that. And so you put
that in the water and that species of shark immediately makes a beeline right to
their target. And they're like, I know what that means. That means
food, and so they'll come back. They'll circle around, get some food,
circle back around, get some food, until you know they've eaten all
the food that they are required to eat for that day or whatever. And
I feel like people think that sharks are so dumb, and I'm like,
no, they're super smart. Like you can literally train them. It's been
done, it's always being done. It's super helpful in the aquarium industry to
help make sure that each shark is getting like the nutrients they need, they're
vitamins if they need it, the right amount of food to make sure that
they're properly cared for. And it also helps with like stretcher training, when
you know you have to do like a checkup, like just how you have
to like take yourself or your dog or cat for a checkup. Sometimes the
sharks need to check up, and so you kind of you put their target
in the water, bring them over onto like a stretcher, and you can
you know, check them out and make sure that they're doing all well and
then release them back into the exhibit. So they're so smart and they have
such personalities. Like I saw it with the guitarfish that I was training.
They were named Fender, Gibbs, Kramer because guitars. Oh my god,
thanks Kyle, and like Gibson was like, yeah, I totally got this.
When we were first starting target training, she was like, I got
this. I'm a pro at this. I know what this means. Fender
was a little bit more reserved, but once she figured it out, she
was like, yeah, yeah, this makes sense. I understand what this
means. Now she's a superstar. And Kramer was always like, I don't
know what this is. I have trust issues. I don't like this.
I'll come over there because I know you're gonna give me food, but I'm
still a little wary of what's going on, and she was very like standoffish.
It was. They have such different personalities and it's really cool to see
just like any other animal like a dog, a cat, or a bear,
like you can you can see the personalities happening when you are working with
them every single day. Yeah, I love that, Nick. Did you
have any other questions? You mentioned bears? Tell me what what we think
about bears. I literally, I don't know. I like bears. I
think they're really cool. I just mentioned bears because I feel like everyone's like,
ah, bears are so cute and fluffy, and I'm sure they have
personalities and I want to hug a bear cub. Don't do that, right,
Oh no, no, don't do that. Don't mess with wildlife.
But also totally I don't know, totally off topic. But I don't know
if you guys ever watched like BuzzFeed Unsolved. I loved BuzzFeed Unsolved. It
was just these guys that did like basically like ghost hunting or like talked about
true crime and stuff, unsolved cases of course. And there's Shane Miday and
there's Ryan Vergara, and Ryan Regara is like terrified of bears, and he's
like they are the apex predator of the entire planet, like, and they
always had this argument. I feel like Shane would be like if you dropped
a bear in the ocean, like it's getting killed by a great white immediately,
and Ryan's like, nah, the bear's gonna move. That thing like
he just thinks way too highly of bears. I don't know. Bears are
fierce predators. I'm gonna give him that, but I don't know. I
just every time someone talks about bears, that's what I think of. And
I'm like, I don't understand why this man is so afraid of bears,
but it's hilarious, which I think is so funny when you see like black
bears eating out of dumpsters and then you like just look at them and oh
shit, sorry and walk away like so non threatening, right, And this
man is like, that's a that's the apex predator of the entire world.
And I'm like, that thing just apologized for rooting through your trash and then
ran away with its tail between its legs. I do not understand. That's
a ran Oh exactly, Oh my gosh, so cute. Yeah we know.
Oh my god, I didn't know that you loved bears so much kind
of launched us into that one. I'm so sorry. I appreciate that you
all got it happens every time. One way or another, we always get
back to bears. But thank you so much for doing this with us and
talking about it. Thanks so much for having me. Any chance I get
to nerd out about sharks, I'll take the opportunity absolutely. So that was
our interview with Jada, and I stand by my original thought of I think
she's the best person to talk about sharks with because she's like the most enthusiastic
and makes them seem less scary. You were very right in our intro this
episode. She's way cool or smart than you. I'm glad you agree.
Finally, there's a lot guy, I spent like five minutes, right,
I think of that. It's like, this is worth it. She might
hate me for it, but let's go. So I just wanted to touch
on a few things. So first and foremost, we talked about her nonprofit
at the beginning miss Elasmo Minorities and shark sciences, and then the word Elasmo
and I had no idea. I just assumed it was a place. Is
that what you assumed? Like, what do you think alasmoment? I guess
I haven't even put any thought into it, just a just a funky little
word. Yeah. So apparently after the interview, because I just was living
in like ignorance and was like, I don't know, that's probably a place.
And what happens when you assumed Nick make an ass out of you and
me? Yeah, I did because I thought it was a place. But
it turns out Elasmo is because sharks are group of Elasmo branch fish characterized by
their cartilaginous skeleton and their gills. And would have never fucking knew no,
And I messaged and I was like, Okay, is this is Elasmo a
place or is it because of the shark grouping? And it's because of the
shark grouping? And I was like, oh my god, that's genius because
I'm sure like the abbreviation miss is already taken on social media for different stuff.
I just never knew what alasma meant. So there it is. There
we go. Yeah. We also touched on or we had asked her like,
where do you know are there certain places where shark attacks happened more often?
So I looked into it and according to the Florida Museum of Natural Histories
International Shark Attack File, so they keep track of shark attacks or incidences,
encounters, whatever you want to call them. Every year. So in twenty
twenty one worldwide, there were seventy three unprovoked bites and there were thirty nine
provoked bytes, which I assumed meant just like people harassing, Yeah, we
don't care about those people deserve it if you're prooking them, yeah, I
don't care about them. So that like unprovoked means obviously you weren't doing anything.
You're just in the water and the shark approach to you. But provoked
could be like you were underwater and you were trying to touch them, or
you were trying to feed them. Surely you're on a shark dive with like
on the Bahamas or something, and like they've got the hut water chump.
You're like punching sharks underwater or something like that. I even know, like,
how how do you provoke a shark to bite you like swim after them
and try to touch them and ped them and stuff. I can't imagine there's
anyone doing that. No, she said in the interview that there were people
who, you know, go up to whale sharks and stuff like that and
try to touch them and swim with them. And grab onto them. I
have seen that. You're right, Yeah, people are stupid, so that
constitutes a provoked bite. And then also so there was thirty nine provoked bites
worldwide in twenty twenty one, and then there were four boat bites, so
like, obviously people pulling sharks onto a boat. Yep, yep. These
numbers have increased since twenty twenty. But obviously, like so many beaches were
locked down during twenty twenty and open back up in twenty twenty one, so
I'm sure that's just a product of more people being in the water. Yeah,
like tourism, so like there was no tourism, so we're in people
from fucking Topeka going over to California. Dude, swim in the oceans,
you know. Yeah, very true. Why are you gonna single out Kansas?
I don't know. I was thinking of that as Topia came in my
mouth. I'm like, why, Yeah, it's so random. But the
US is the world leader in unprovoked bytes, with forty seven representing so forty
seven bytes in the US last year, which represents sixty four percent of bites
worldwide. America number one, let's go all right, well, and Australia
came in second with twelve unprovoked bites in twenty twenty one. Australia leads in
twenty twenty one with the most deaths. How many do you think there were?
Uh, just in Australia or worldwide? Yeah, just in Australia because
if they have the most four Okay, no, close? Three? Wow,
it's not that bad. Yeah, soksll less. In New Caledonia they
come in second with two fatal shark attack encounters, bites, whatever you want
to call in twenty twenty one. And then it's the US, Brazil,
New Zealand and South Africa all had just one fatality in twenty twenty one from
a shark. So what are the like the total world one nine total shark
related deaths in twenty twenty one. I feel like that's not that bad.
It's not a lot. It's less than I thought, I guess. Ye,
Like worldwide, there's so many people in the water and as a person,
so many sharks. Yeah, and well there's less, but we'll get
into it. But as a person who's been in the ocean many a time,
I've personally never been a shark. I've never seen a shark in the
ocean. No never, Yeah, so I just want to play a little
game. You know, we all we all enjoy your driver for skills.
Where's New Caledonia? I thought, so, okay, we can move on
if you want. Why would you do this? I I was excuse nobody,
what this is? No, And usually I look this stuff up because
I know you're gonna ask. That's fine. So anyways, back to my
statistics. Okay, I thought it was like in that area, but I
okay, yeah, anyways, it's Yeah, so Florida represents sixty percent of
the US total, which makes sense. Yeah, which means thirty eight percent
of unprovoked attacks worldwide occur in Florida. Yeah, yeah, that sounds about
right. So Jada was correct. Florida is where the most like negative encounters
I guess happened. Yeah, I'll accept that. I won't to argue with
that one. Yeah. I mean, even just thinking about like Miami,
like the beaches around there, there's gotta be millions and millions of people on
those beaches like in the ocean every year, you know. Yeah, and
like it's something I'm thinking about, is like there's obviously so many sharks on
the coast of California because there's a lot of seals there, but not a
whole lot of people are swimming up in like the San Francisco area, like
the water if they're a lot choppier, like the beaches aren't really much of
a thing. Like it's kind of like LA in South. Yeah, Like
La and South is kind of like how like where a lot of the uh
pooper are swimming and along that coast there's not a whole lot of seals.
Down in La Joya there's a bit see lions at least, and then north
of LA but between there there's not many. Yeah, And she touched on
the fact that like Cape Cod in Massachusetts, they have more seals now,
so they're seeing more and more sharks. I think there was a bite a
few years ago, maybe two years ago, three years ago. I feel
like it's a thing every summer where the news has like a whole thing about
the summer sharks, and there's like a giant, you know, fucking highway
of them going up and down the coast New England. But it's because they
migrate every year exactly. It's not really a thing that you know, people
are being attacked by them up here. Yeah, again, I don't think
we have that many people go in the water compared to Florida. So oh
yeah, Well when you were saying that, I was thinking of the oceans
here they're like ickier compared Well, yeah, no, I can tell you
it's much ickier from someone who's been in many oceans and many oceans, and
then I feel like the Gulf of Mexico doesn't count though. It's I mean,
isn't it all really the same ocean? If you think about it,
it's all connected. Yeah. Basically every continent is just an island. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, it's one really really big island. Yeah, exactly.
Can we name the island of North America and South America something just right
now on the podcast? Uh, America, that's the lots of answer.
That's fine, Yeah, that is totally fun. It's weird that we're like
the United States of America and then there's a North and South. Like it's
weird that South America has a guy named America vespooci discovered it or mapping at
least, really America Vespoci. You don't know America vespoci is. Of course
I can't even pronounce Belarus. Of course I don't know who discovered the fucking
Americas and map them. He mapped them, I believe is the way that
the story. So if you map something, you get to name it.
I think so, yes, wame that it's not North and South Columbus,
so that'd be really dumb. Yeah, but I know we have like a
Columbus in every state almost, yeah, or Columbia, like it's all kind
of the same thing. Was Columbia named after christor Columbus? I guess I
couldn't really say for sure. I'm gonna say yes because I don't know.
Great that sounds like a great plan. Anyways, So I mentioned earlier you
were saying like, obviously there's a bunch of sharks in the ocean. So
Jada was also correct, And according to the Smithsonian Ocean dot SI dot edu,
approximately one hundred million sharks are killed every year. Jesus Christ. And
that's like an estimate because of the illegal like sharkfin trade and people just using
different parts of them for like traditional medicines and whatnot. Fuck yep, it's
it's not good. It's not pretty a bit. I feel like, for
that many sharks be killed every year, I've eaten a surprising lack of shark
in my life. You know, I said something's being killed that often.
I feel like least uses the food source more often. Well, I think
it's probably more. You can probably find it more so, like on the
other side of the world, But over here, I don't think there's a
lot of like shark killing. I could be totally wrong. You can find
fried shark at the Florida State Fair, I know for a fact. Well,
then you just didn't need it. No, I ate it again,
I feel like I should have no Wait what I feel like it'suld be more
common. How does shark taste? Well, when you fry it all tastes
like chicken. Honestly, the gator tastes like chicken. The fucking shark tastes
like chicken. Like it all. Why do we compare everything to chicken?
It's when you fry it. It's my thing, like it all just tastes
like fried food in general. Well, then we could just say, like,
oh, everything just tastes like shark. You know, I'm down with
that. Next time we go somewhere, just like gator. Yeah, next
time we go somebody the way, you's like, hey, how was it
got tasted? Just like shark. I loved it. God, I don't
know how much of the shark killing is done for eating them. It doesn't
seem like a lot from my understanding. A lot of times they catch the
shark, cut off the fins and throw them overboard, which is awful.
Like so oh God, I don't want to get to ahead of our schedule,
but we have an episode coming up. It's like about wildlife exploitation in
that way, and that is like the biggest, my biggest thing. My
whole life has been about trying to solve issues like that, like traditional medicines,
like farming tigers, which is a thing to get certain parts of them,
and like the fact that people can cut off parts of a living animal's
body and then just dump it. I fundamentally do not understand it. It
doesn't make sense to me. No, And because sharks are slow growing and
they don't have like a high reproductive rate, like it's not like they pop
out babies like rabbits, dow. They're very susceptible to extinction, so it's
difficult for sharks to like replenish the numbers that are very quickly diminished by this
shark fin trade. Yeah, so pretty funny we have last sixty to seventy
percent of shark populations, specifically due to these human shark fisheries. Yeah.
Fuck, so you know, keep that in mind for everyone who's like,
oh, I hate sharks, Like, okay, yes, they killed nine
people in twenty twenty one, but we killed one hundred million of them because
we just want to use one part of their body. Fuck that. I
would like to find a list of things I've killed nine people in twenty twenty
one, Like, it's gonna be some wild shit on there, because nine
is not a lot. And you know, over the course of you know,
a population is seven and a half billion, like nine. Yeah,
nothing, No, absolutely not, which I think is important to mention for
all the people who are so afraid of sharks, and I get it,
like they're big and scary, and especially if you're in an ocean that's murky,
it can be spooky. But yeah, the odds are astronomically low.
Yeap. Also, I don't think most people are going that far out into
the ocean, which I know shallow depths attacks happen. Yeah, but the
odds are again very well exactly well. I think that's a good place to
end it on. That was not the most hopeful ending, But I just
hope that you like sharks more. And I'll add some links to Jada's nonprofit
and I'll add some links to these websites where I'm getting information on like shark
attacks and whatnot. And if you want to know more about sharks, reach
out to Jada. I'll have her Twitter and other social media handles blow and
she always be thrilled to talk with people about sharks. She is thrilled.
She is all kind of like what she does. Yeah, So thank you
so much for listening to episode twenty two of Get Out Alive. To see
more information and links to this episode, like I just said, check out
the episode description, or you can check out our website get at a Live
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and we'll see you in two Wednesdays.