And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Randalchampars incident that doesn't involve
aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our heads.
It's so classic. Fli Sorcerer is standing in the cleary. He turned
over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes
and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show.
We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on podcastufo dot com.
During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room,
and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. Hello,
and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your host, and this
evening we're welcoming back Ray Stanford. He's going to be covering some topics that
we haven't actually talked before. Should be a great show. And before that
we have Alejandro or Rojas coming up with the new news. I hope for
those of you who celebrate Christmas you had a wonderful one. Next is New
Year is coming up. Just a couple of things. I want to thank
everyone that supports the show. You can support our show for as little as
two dollars a month. All you have to do is go to podcastufo dot
com and on the menu bar you see it there. And if you can't
support the show and you want to listen to the full show, all you
have to do is listen live the same web address podcastufo dot com every Wednesday
at eight to ten pm Eastern Standard time. It also plays on the dark
Matter Digital Network, and that's Thursdays, that's ten to midnight Eastern Standard time.
Well, Alejandro, I hope you had a nice Christmas. I did
have a good Christmas. I do celebrate it, and I think, well,
last time on your show, I talked about kind of the new Christmas,
kind of a legend, and that people can go listen. That's a
plug to go listen to your last show to hear more about that. But
yeah, it was pretty good, relaxed, no major drama, which of
course families are prone to, ye, but it's nice not to have it.
So yeah, go to Did you go to Colorado or do you have
to stay in? I stayed here. I'm gonna I am gonna go to
Colorado weekend after next and to kind of do a post Christmas Christmas with my
Colorado family. Just kind of a short weekend. But yeah, it was
good. How about you? Great? It was. I was had a
resort and you know, kind of chilled out and it was really relaxing for
relaxing. Wow, you're a high roller out there, aren't you. I
mean you go to resorts for Christmas. You explain this huge at state that
you live on with a couple of buildings and everything. Wow, if you
only knew, Alejandro. Yeah, I do enjoy living in Maine because,
you know, you get all the seasons and the and Christmas is a great
time to be in Maine. That's cool. You know what's cool? Cool
Christmas? Jason, your last guests, Yeah, they usually go to Vegas
for Christmas. Well, that would be interesting. Yeah, I think that
would be fun. My girlfriend and I I think it was last year,
went to Vegas the weekend after Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was like on a Thursday or
Friday, and we left from there and we had a great time. It
was you know, you get some good deals and it was a lot of
fun. So yeah, I get jealous. I think that would be fun
personally. Yeah, I like to do different things like that. That would
be a blast, actually be living doing Christmas like a Kardashian right in Vegas.
One of the people that helps out with the show is in lives in
Las Vegas. Oh okay, hey, and yeah, she's uh, that
would be really fun to do something different like that. Mm hmmm. I
have to crash in for Christmas. Maybe next year. Yeah, good idea.
So what's going on for news this week? Well, the last time
I spoke with you was the last day I was in the office, so
I haven't even been in the office however, you know, just reviewing some
of the headlines, and of course we post the headlines every day at openminds
dot tv, so if you go there, you'll see the links to these
right on the front page. That's today. Of course Wednesday, we'll have
some new ones tomorrow. But some of what's up there is kind of interesting.
One of these being that supposedly, I mean this website posted a story
about a Columbus, Ohio siding, and it was a signing that was actually
posted on open dot tv from November twenty ninth, when a witness was driving
in the area of Columbus, Ohio and had seen a large triangular shaped craft.
Now, a website called Inquisitor had posted a story about that and some
of the other triangular craft sightings because we've been talking about those and so moby
pickers the name of the site. It's kind of a news site that's geared
towards mobile devices. But yeah, they kind of picked up this story and
talked about how these triangular UFO signings are so popular lately and now there's been
so many And of course if you do go to the front page of open
minds dot tv, you'll see quite a few triangular UFO reports, many of
which you and I have spoken about in the last few weeks. Righty,
there's just so many of them, and yeah, basically the silent they're all
silent. I think I've only heard of a couple of cases where anyone talks
about like any type of noise, a buzzing noise or something like that.
But it just seems like, yeah, very similar in a related story,
a mystery. Often Now, there have been some move on videos posted recently,
and I've even passed on posting them on our website because the person says
I started trainingular craft, there was no noise you watch the video. It
actually looks like lights from an aircraft, which can look triangular, and you
can hear an aircraft in the video, and it could be I don't know
that these people aren't necessarily hoaxing, but you know, when we have aircraft
in the background all of the time, sometimes people just tune that out.
They don't, you know, they just so it takes someone else to listen.
So I think a couple of those recent videos were definitely aircraft jetliners.
However, sometimes because they are if they are completely silent. They're also Chinese
lanterns, and of course a lot of these are launched for the holidays,
especially on New Year's Eve, so we'll be seeing a lot of those.
And there is a story about that. The title in an Oregon paper called
Kval actually a news website. They say Oregon bans frequent UFO and potential fire
hazard effective January one, and they are banning the Chinese lanterns. They're not
the first. Other states have done this here and abroad, I know.
I think it was in the UK, or it was somewhere in Europe where
they banned them because they were a hazard to the cattle. They would come
down and land on cattle and then they would get burnt because there's you know,
kind of a little candle or a fire inside of them. Most of
them are pretty safe in that there's just a little padded thing with oil on
it that lights and it doesn't last for very long and once it goes out,
these things dropped to the ground. However, Oregon has banned them,
so their UFO sightings will probably go down. Well. Yeah, yeah,
there's a lot of you know, Oregon is very wooded, and I could
easily see fire fire hazards that way. I don't know how many actually do
cause fires. It's probably rare, but I'm sure it has happened. Yeah.
Well, and the homemade ones or others are a little more dangerous because
there have been some that use like the little tea candles or something, and
of course those candles can fall and they and stay lit. So there are
more dangerous versions of the Chinese lanterns out there. And so as opposed to
saying what kind you can have or regulating the types, it looks like they've
just banned them across the board. Well, good riddance to them if you
ask me, But I know they are you know, they are beautiful.
I've seen them, but it sure would make investigating a lot easier. Well,
an alternative, and this has happened to hoax people before, actually been
used to do that. But an alternative I have seen is now they have
these tiny little led lights battery powered and they go inside of a balloon,
right, so you can ride a balloon put you know, have an inflatable
balloon that floats with these little LEDs. People have tied these together before and
launched them in order to hoax UFOs, but you could do that for fun
as well. And you know, it wasn't too long ago a party,
I think this summer that my girlfriend's daughter had and we had some of those,
and those lasted a long time. In fact, they went out of
town and I made I took them out of the balloons and I put them
in the bedroom in a row so that when I woke up at night to
go to the bathroom, I had this little you know, aisle to point
me where to go so I wouldn't stub my toes. So and at work
I had a It's stub toe free weekend. There. Wow, Now those
I have seen those, and those really I could totally see why someone.
I mean, they look really mysterious, sort of like foggy, and yeah,
they look really strange, so I can see that those could be definitely
another problem. Yeah, and you can have any color balloons, so they
can be multiple colors. And you know, what are you gonna do?
Well? Is that it for for tonight. That's it. It's all I
got, buddy. All right, Well we'll be talking to you next year.
Actually oh yeah, oh really that's right. Well, well we'll talk
yeah, okay, all right, Well, happy New Year to you man,
you too, Happy New Year. And you know, I hope you
make some resolutions that that I can keep. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that would be good. All right. We just don't make any that's the
easiest way. Yeah, that probably is the easiest way. All right,
everyone, uh, hanging there for the quick music break, and we'll be
right back with Ray Stanford. Ray, how are you welcome back to the
show. Oh? Hi, yeah, I'm fine. I always always love
speaking you, Ray. We actually do, uh, we actually do talk
quite a bit, you know, off the show. You're also a supporter
of my show. I appreciate that very much, and you listen to almost
every show live, which people in the chat room love when you call in.
The only issue is my phone call in so has not been actually working
too well. But it is always great to hear from you. Well,
it's always a place. Yeah, I noticed there's been some problems lately,
but I hope you get that fixed up. Yeah. Well, you know,
I update all the equipment everything I have, and it I just some
things that there are just no answers on on how to fix that I can
find anyway. But so, Ray, you have been doing all kinds of
things. You're still You've been looking up and looking down. We'll talk a
little bit about that. You have been on a number of times, speaking
of course about the Socorro case. The wonderful book you wrote is the best
book out there on that incident, and that happened back in nineteen sixty four,
and you were there, you have been there. Was someone that noted
a question in the forum. Has it been since the nineteen fifties or wasn't
it the sixties when you first started looking into the UFO field. Oh?
No. I became interested in UFOs, believe it or not, in nineteen
forty seven, which was when I was nine years old, and I actively
got involved in investigating cases and trying to see and ultimately photograph UFOs. In
nineteen fifty three and I started an organization in Corpus Christie, Texas, which
back in those days they were called flying Saucers, and we were high school
kids, and we called it corpce Crichtie Flying Social Research Society, and so
it began. Then. So I've been into this well over sixty years,
and of course I became aware fairly early on that in order to do anything
meaningful in this you needed to have more than reports. You needed to get
instrument at evidence, not just camera evidence, but electronic and optical evidences of
a types. And so eventually, when I got to where I could afford
it, I got into that and form an organization whereby we eventually put together
over two million dollars in systems and equipment facilities which quite successfully obtained some really
excellent hard data on these objects, which I prefer to call anomalist aerial objects.
Now, this is two million dollars back in the nineteen seventies. No,
yes, in the seventies, and I'm talking about seventies money, I'm
not talking about now. That would be what twenty or thirty times out amount.
Now seems like you could put the same instrument system together now for a
lot less because of the advances in electronic technology. But if you were doing
it today, that would be what was involved. I'm talking real terms in
the nineteen seventies, mid seventies. Wow, amazing And what type of how
did you get the backing for that? Well that in first place was involved
with a nonprofit corporation where people could make nonprofit contributions, And I made it
a point to let people know that this was the way to go. That
everybody knew by that time that I was involved with this COREL case and my
frustration in losing the zinc iron alloy herd evidence that had been scraped onto a
rock, as I related in my scrol book, And so I got people
behind me that wanted to see a new kind of evidence, an evidence that
would involve that would cause real mainstream physics and science to take this seriously.
And fortunately, our biggest finance here was a no. Contrary to rumors that
I heard from South America that I was being financed by an intelligence community and
the no, not at all. Now, our main finance here was a
commercial real estate broker in Austin, Texas, and of course Austin was becoming
beginning to become a real economic boom town then as it is now, and
so we had very good financing from that wonderful individual. And there was also
another individual that was a hydraulics engineer. That was, although he had a
home in California, he was usually in the Middle somewhere in the Middle East
working for big oil companies there in relationship to the hydraulics work that they needed
him to do. And so he was sending us several thousands of dollars a
month in checks. I would interrupt my frame thought on that and simply say
that an interesting side event happened in that context. That was all private,
and of course no one knew who was doing this, at least not or
near people. But the My wife's brother was in the US Navy at that
time, and he was stationed down in Norfolk. And I say down because
I'm up here in the DC area in Maryland. And he became friend with
a guy here, indeed, they live in the DC area, And after
he had known him for about a year, the guy said to him,
Hey, Trip, have you ever heard of an organization in Texas called Project
Starlight International, and that's not to be confused with Stephen Grier's Product Starlight.
And it was a totally different thing, of a serious scientific vain. And
Trip was said, Oh, are you interested in UFOs And he said,
no, I'm not. He said, well, why do you ask me?
Then he said, well, he said, I have never told you
this. I've known you a year, but I worked for the CIA,
And he told which obviously workings so so. And he said, if he
had been in our office for the last several weeks, he said, the
most frequent name you would have heard called was product startled Internet. He said,
are they doing something wrong? What he didn't tell him at that point
was that he himself had donated seven hundred dollars towards the h eight foot chain
lake fence with barb war on top of it around our two of our billing
facilities there. And the guy said, uh, well, no, they're
we don't know. He said, what we're concerned about is that they're receiving
a large check every month from an individual that uh we that is in some
sometimes he was in Saudi Arabia, sometimes he was in Bangladesh, sometimes even
other places in the UH Near East, and they said, we were concerned,
We're concerned. He said, well, uh wait, trip said,
well what what what is the concern If it's not comment, They said,
well, we're concerned that some foreign nation or agency interested in embarrassing the United
States government is giving that project money that could get evidence that could become embarrassed
to the United States government. And we want to know who it is and
whether it is some communist country or what it is that's giving them that might
availed him that opportunity to embarrass the government. Now isn't that interesting? Wow?
That is now what the people that were backing of this organization, in
your equipment and all that, did they have expectations? Did they want you
to share the information in a certain way? Well, yes, of course
it was shared with them. And in fact, the biggest finance here,
the one from Austin, was with us on our fabulous trip in July of
nineteen seventy eight. He was right there and saw every bit of it and
operated to one of the cameras. Oh but how about what was the What
am I trying to say? How what was the expectation as far as getting
the information out to the general public. Was it something you were not to
do. Objective was never really to amuse the public with the UFO information.
The objective was to get hard evidence. We were using well. For example,
we had of course spectrographic camera, but more importantly than that, we
had a recording extreme O frequency ELF magnetometer that would record with time correlation from
WWAVB boundary time broadcasting for Collins, Colorado, along simultaneously with the center output
of a recording gravel meter, and we got spectacted or absolutely amazing recordings with
those that show not only that these objects have an extreme frequency magnetic field and
that we learned how it correlates with their maneuvers, but we also learned that
the seeming let's call it gravity like waves that we were recording with the gravel
meter had a very interesting carlation with the magnetic field, and we were able
to show that as objects approached our camera, we could see a difference in
the magnitude increase between the magnetopterate output in the gravel meter EFTPORT and this tends
to absolutely confirm the authenticity the signals. Because a magnetic field that the field
and these objects is dipolar. Two field drops off the inverse where inverse Cuba
the disims of the body of radiation, but a gravity like field would if
it's monopolar as gravity is, would drop off of the inverse Cuba disness for
body of radiation, so you see a differential in drop off. And this
is exactly what we saw as for example, we filmed and regarded this kind
of data from a large mothership from a top skull valley overlook in the Prescote
National Forests on the afternoon broad daylight of July twenty seventh, nineteen seventy eight,
and as a smaller object came from the mothership and got in nearest,
we can actually see while they were filnd we can actually see the increase in
magnetiy, but the difference in magnitude increases between the gravelmeter and the magnetimber outputs,
which is extremely important to physicists that are analyzing this to establish that they
were two different parameters entirely and not, for example, magnetic induction acting on
our gravelmeter sensor. In the first place, it was shield from shielded from
magnetic induction. Now, what do you think ray of the two I know
you've actually tried to reach out to the two different systems out there now that
are trying to do similar things. You actually offered free help to UFO Data
and UPHO TOG both. And what do you think about the Have you looked
deeply into what they're doing, and if so, well so as I can
determine they're not doing anything significant at all. U boot Dog is flashing a
lot of fancy instruments that have been shown, but I've heard of no results.
I've heard of no active field activities, and they have both thumbed their
nose in me. I have invited them to come here and see this.
People say, oh, you don't show it. I show it to people
that are interested in doing science. I'm not in the amusement business. I'm
not in the entertainment business. But I show it to people that have a
scientific interest, and if anyone doubts that, I can privately show them here
proof of major major people, not only scientists but in aerospace engineers, but
people high up in the television community connections that have been here and appreciated what
they were shown. But yet they thumbed their nose in me and will not
come. And so I have to question who they're listening to. They're not
listening to anyone who has ever been here and seen this. I can guarantee
you if they if they were, they would be here, But they have
not. They're listening to somebody else that that has some kind of fantasies about
me and and my evidence, who has never seen it. And I could
name names specifically in these organizations of people that had been invited at one part,
some of them said they would come but didn't never did. And I
really I'm always open to show it to people that are seriously into this,
But I'm not at all impressed by either one of these organizations you named,
because they well, for example, one of the organizations I heard is now
moving in the direction of putting up a satellite. Yeah, that's a whole
different one. Yeah. Well, no, no, no, no,
no, no. The one I heard about is not the one you've heard
about. But I heard from somebody on the board of directors of another organization.
And let me say that if one were to look at the evidence I
have, one would realize that the best kind of Yoho evidence will be the
record the effects of these of the fields of these objects upon backlighting that passes
from behind them on tard for example, the camera and I have a wonderful
example of this in Mexico. I'd like to discuss and explain tonight. But
you can in the first place, these little satellite, these cheap satellites,
few thousand dollars, they'll be up a few months if they will decay and
fall back down. And furthermore, the chance of getting anything significant and proving
it as anything significant is very low. There are things about the atmosphere and
filming in the atmosphere and the effects of lighting in the atmosphere that are much
more conducive to getting hard scientific data that speaks to physicist, both theoretical and
applied physicists and engineers. And I know this because I've had them right here
in this very room and showed it to them, and we have discussed it
in depth. Now, may I take a while and describe what I think
is the single most important event that we ever recorded. Yes, absolutely,
And I have some questions related to people who have looked at it coming up,
So go right ahead. Okay, Okay, you know what I'm talking
about. My wife and I and my daughter, who was two and a
half years old at the time, had been down to celebrate the birthday party
of the great father of modernism in Latin American art, the late artist Carlos
Merida. We had been there on there for his birthday and he's the godfather
of my children. And we were flying back from Mexico City. Now we
were Our flight took out off from Mexico City and at eighteen fifteen hours local
time, the would be six fifteen northern Mexico City. We were over what's
called the Tissa Yuka Tisa Yuka omnidirectional radio beacon. Now I'm going to give
explicit data so people can know I'm not making this up. This was a
BRANDIF flight number fifty six Mexico City to San Antonio, Texas. We were
on a flight pairing of three hundred fifty. This has supplied me by the
pavat three hundred and fift degrees magnetic bearing thirty five statute miles south of takeoff,
and we were passing through twelve thousand feet when I saw the objects and
started filming. Our ground speed was three hundred and thirty knots. Our air
speed was two ortern eighty knots, and I was in the filming from the
middle seat nine B. My daughter was in the window seat nine A.
My wife was in the aisle seat nine C. And as I said,
we were over when it began, the Papa said over the tizzy UCOP in
the directional radio beacon, and we were in a control flight zone where you
had to have clearance to fly through it. And anyway, what happened is
I looked out the window and here was something that immediately looked incredible today you
truth, we had just gone through the Anthropological Museum in Mexico City, and
it seems a big stone carving of the plume surface ketsokauada and which means the
plume serpent. And out the window the plane, the sun had just set.
This, by the way, is the ideal time to film UFOs,
because the light is incredibly monopolarized. It's not scattered light, it's not randomly
polarized. It's highly polarized. And I look out the window and we were
we had passed through a layer of rain below us. The clouds were below
us. There was another layer of clouds above us, but we were in
the open at that time where there was no rain and only a few faults
that we filmed passing the airliner as we were climbing and filming the objects.
But the object that we first saw looked like the plume serpent. It was
crazy. I mean, I couldn't believe it. I said to my little
daughter, who was two and a half, I said, look at that.
That looks just like the thing we saw in the museum. Look at
it. Look at that tongue out off the head and like the raised rattles
sound on the back. And it really did what it was. It turns
out it was, if I may use the vernacular, the mothership. It
was electrifying the er around it. But because Marster on both sides, the
electrification was the plasma was quickly becoming ion vapor and becoming opaque, which is
very nice because of what you can see in the film. And I'm watching
this and we're talking about it and how strange it is, I'm filming it,
and all of a sudden there's approaching it, a most bizarre looking object
from the north. Now, this obect approached it a slant angle, I
would say, off the top of my head, about ten degrees related to
horizon. When it came to the right, near the right end of this
object that I called the mothership. It aligned directly with the axis of the
mothership, flew pallel with it until it got to the left or south end
of this object. Then it took off at an angle of about seventy degrees
slightly downward from my position, moving toward an amazing huge delta shape. O.
Because this is in broad daylight. That is, at times it has
at times you can see in the movie a streak that goes submit to an
incredible large things that's emerging from the cloud layer above that appears to be at
least the bottom portion of a big another bigger, closer or bigger mothership.
And you actually can see on the film objects to go to and from it
an incredible speed. I did not see that part when that gut eye was
too fast, but on the film, but I was watching this object that
I mentioned that approached the mothership. And here let me then break in and
say that the object itself that was approaching was crazy looking. When I saw
it on the film, it was even more puzzling than it looked to the
eye. To the eye, I thought it was a fat, kind of
a domed fat disk with some kind of an iron vapor whirling at high speed
like a lasso, the cowboys rotating before he least ows a calf. But
when you look at the film, you see that it's actually highly organized plasma
with patterns that generate and decay and regenerate and decay as it approaches the mothership
and goes on past it. But here's the important thing about this film.
Life was highly polarized. And of course during the film, as already been
published in a major scientific in a mainstream scientific presentation that occurred in Moscow,
this film was I'm sorry, Ray, this film was Yeah. Part of
this was I this is the first time I've heard you say that, Oh
well, I can, I can send you a PDF. And the scientific
presentation everywhere I mentioned that in a minute, But let me mention what that
was only about the part one of the small objects associated with this mothership decided
to take off while I was filming it, and it powell it generated.
I understand that even if I had not been fitting into a beam splitter,
which was putting the vertically polarized light to the eye piece of the horizonally polarized
eye in the film, I would still have gotten Faraday ring because the light
was so polarized because the sun had just set and I was pointing west and
that's been analyzed and it was highly polarized, so ideal when this thing took
off. I can show you pictures of twenty some odd concentric light and dark
rings and before somebody's screams and says, oh, he's, he's. This
is something called the artifactor putting a movie film to copy it between two pieces
of glass, and these are the rings that form from interface with the glass.
It's pure Baloni. The film that you see, the frame series that
I show people were made by suspending it in air in a template where nothing
is touching the film. And the furthermore, the plane of radiation is commensurate,
is in line with the plane of radio symmetry of the dipolar magnet.
Feel the object and you see the actual tilt. Every ring is tilted,
and you see it perfectly and beautifully. But any places in the film where
other objects become quite active around this larger object, one actually sees what I
would say where the victorial perhaps the victorial summations of Faraday rotation effect of the
fields of the different objects, and you can actually see that a host of
these objects are magnetic and they're rotating the plane of polarization of the backlighting that
it comes toward my camera. Now, much more important than that as it
happens out there. As I said, we were above the cloud layer we
had passed through. But the mountaintops, fortunately on the west, are sticking
through that layer. And there is a mountaintop directly under this mothership. And
that mountaintop is we have the data quite actually it was one hundred and thirty
four statute miles away from my camera. It's but it's directly under the mothership.
And I'm filming at fifty four frames per second, and throughout the entire
film, what happens is one sees this mountain at fifty little frames per second.
In five frames, it collapses from a mountain down into it. It
looks like a flattened penny against the cloud horizon. It completely flattens out.
Now, what do you think, how what do you think caused this visual?
Okay, let me explain the risks. What happens in the next fifteen
frames of the cycle. It rises back up, Then in the next five
frames you see it optically warped down again. The next fifteen fames, it
rises back up. This continues through out the film, and this cannot be
natural reflection because one we were climbing, it would not be even it would
change constantly because we're climbing to twelve thousand feet up to cruise altitude of twenty
five thousand feet. But furthermore, the rate of warp. Let me tell
you the rate of warp. The shrink rate of the mountain under the carrier
is one point four four degrees per second. Now one point four to four
degrees is about three moons or suns on top of each other. That is
orders of magnitude beyond the rate of natural affection that can occur in the atmosphere.
The strength rate where it goes back down for fifteen frames is zero point
four eight degrees per second. Now this is real physics. But even more
wonderful than that is that in all these objects, and it's big triangular object
off to the left, they're interacting. Objects are flying around. But the
most wonderful thing to the physicist is this. As you look at the frames,
during the five frames of collapse, the back lighting changes wavelength. It
has a red shift. It shifts from bluer to redder during the strength phase
of five frames. Then during the next fifteen frames when the mountain, as
the mountain rises back up, you have the blue shift from the red back
up into the blue. This occurs again and again. Now this is enough
to make theoretical physicists jump up and down and shout halleluja if they'll just come
here and look at it. It's there. It's undeniable, and it is
all good old fashioned movie film, no digital tricks. It's absolutely you know,
real emulsion film and good high quality souper eight millimeter movie film. And
it was filmed at at tend power and as I said, at fifty four
frames per second. So there you have it. You have also this other
object with this plasma whirling and these repeated patterns off the top of it.
But this phenomenon, this is incredible physics. And by the way, the
rate at which that is pulsing is commensurate with the rate that we recorded during
a totally different event back in July twenty seventh, nineteen seventy eight, and
one of the spikes of greatest magnitude during that based on air Fourier analysis of
the magnetometer, the LF magnetemepter output was seven point two hertz, and that
is what that frequency average that I was coming from the airliner. So it's
interesting. Now there were other spikes there in the ELF magnetic on July twenty
seventh, but that happened to be one of the second highest spike as far
as of it occurring again and again. So here we have real physics that's
being done, Martin. And this is the kind of thing that people ask
me, why hearth the poor UFOs you've ever been accepted by the scientific mainstream.
The answer is they've been only presented reports. Reports are what people see.
I think they see perceived and in some cases misperceived. It does not
give us quantitative data. Movie films, magnetometer cardings, Grave Leader of Cardings
give us quantitative data. And and you know, one might say that maybe
it was a gravity like effect that was causing this mountain effect. Maybe it
was. We do have we didn't have the magnetimic Grave Leader on the plane,
but in the other events we had this out in West Texas, New
Mexico, Arizona, and we have the signal coming off the gravel leater sensor
that is definitely correlated with the maneuvers of the objects and has a fascinating correlation
with the magnetic field. So these are the things. This is why I
said I want to address the failure of mainstream theufology and all of their conferences
and celebrations of This is where you know, that's fine if you want to
have fun, but if you want to do some science, don't sell trinkets
to finance your UFO research. Certain major you have organization does. Don't sell
books. Talk sense to people, show them that you can do some hard
science, that you will do it, and they will finance it. I
know if I could do that in nineteen seventy three, seventy four, seventy
five, seventy six, and seventyeventy eight, they can do it now and
more easily because there are ways on the Internet to appeal to people and show
them what you intend to do and how you intend to do it right right.
A bunch of questions came in while you were talking. First of all,
your camera, what camera did you have that shoots fifty frames per second?
Oh well, let me let me pull it out here just a minute.
I'm gonna put off the let me pull the pull the album with some
of these pictures from the movie and all the data on the camera right here.
This was a really absent cam. Hold just a second, if I
make a little noise here, I'm pulling this whole album from nineteen eighty out
of his box and let me see I have power part present with his name
too, because but I don't have them up on my piece. Okay,
while while you're doing that, I'll ask you another question. How do you
get a magno magna to meet or I don't even know how to say that
magnometer thank you to read out and hurts to read? Oh, it's very
you re you record it? I mean it's our Uh just let me hold
you just a second. Year. I've got to find the right thank youre
Uh you hope the thing is not missing? Oh you know the camera's not
really we can just move on. Okay, anyway, let me let me
hya God, this is really strange. Yeah, I think God for me.
I think that's Uh. The question was, how do you get one?
How do you get one to read out in hurts? It's easy that
that's that's cycles per second. All you simply do is uh, well,
the first place, let me let me explained this unit was recording both the
the censer output of the gravel meter and the magnetometer UH in W W V
B I'm sorry, in in I R I G format, which is a
digital format that the Navy, for example, uses and in fact, one
of the key physicists designed in the UH the designing of the unit for us
was a naval physicist. And UH it records in in binary digital form.
But what we do, they're simply UH. We took it out to the
company that that made it, and they took the tape out of the machine
and put it on a graph and and actually gave us an analog graph of
the whole all the events that we recorded it in and we sat there and
discussed, didn't analyze it, and they showed us how the the gravel meter
output could not be an artifact, that it appeared to be a real signal
that was reaching the censer. And so you can sit right there and you
can see the seconds clicking off of the wave farms. You can count them
there. There are ways to digitally run this through and print it out on
a computer now, but you can simply sit there and look at our analog
graphs and and count them for yourself. Okay, all right. So one
of the things that I was thinking of when you were talking about the possible
propulsion or whatever was happening with the physics of this craft and other crafts early
on, when you were talking about your your research project there, what do
you think happens when you hear about these electronic interference situations like when a car
goes dead or someone's watch or whatever when they're when a UFO was near.
How does that How does that fit into the whole scheme of things? Well
that, Uh, yes, it's a well known phenomenon and it does happen
sometimes. Uh. I don't know if it will happens much with the way
our course are operated now as they used to be, But it's hard to
say exactly. There's not a whole lot of studies there. There's a good
case that Mark Rodick can put together of uh these effects on autobiles and other
machines, which is nice. But we need the magnetometers. We need not
only ELF, we need other in higher frensy magnetometers to talk about what has
happened. But we need to concern ourselves not so much about the fact that
it might by the way, there's nothing that exotic about stopping a car or
a tractor or a truck with a electronic magnetic electromagnetic device. The government has
has these now and uh and has developed them and ahead of a long time
now. I'm not going to say that that was based on anything we learned
from UFOs. We do have a lot of good physicist, physicists and electronics
people that could easily figure out how to do that. You don't have to
pull it out of a craft UFO. But anyway, what we need to
look for is, uh, what in which what can we learn from these
objects is not what people think they see are the fantasies they build in their
mind. And we're all human beings. I mean, I know this from
my own experience. You have to you have to get objective. You've got
to have instrumented data. We've got to forget this business of pawing over reports
and analyze electronic data. And we also people need to come here Martin for
another reason. I can I can get anybody here for a few days.
I can teach them by showing what we recorded in these films. I can
teach them to recognize how the real objects look in broad daylight, you can
see the physics operating around them. These fake pictures that people are coming out
with with photoshop jobs, etc. They are based on comic book ideas of
what UFOs are. They have no idea what the real thing is like.
And I laugh at them. And then we have so many pictures of tinselized
my Laura balloon us that look weird o. The blue doesn't shaped like that.
Intensialize my Our balloons could be bought in almost any farm, and if
you want another farm, you haven't made. But these are not UFOs.
And if anybody would come here for a few days, that at least absolved
themselves of the illusion that the lot of these things being put down on the
Internet are real films of UFOs. They're not. I can tell you that,
both in history and in the present time, the real images of these
objects are less than one percent of the things that are put out as being
images of the of a noble of serial objects. And you know, I
could give I could do a whole nine month course, or anybody want to
take a course in in that. But it's more important to actually, for
example, answer the question that I had, how how is that light shifting
wavelengths from the blue to the red and back up to the blue in these
pulses. That is so exotic that if you can, if you can answer
that, you may be into our for a Nobel Prize. Now there's another
phenomenon of UFOs that we need to look at very seriously. And this was
totally shocked to me. I mean, it was totally unanticipated by me or
anybody connected with me, or anybody ever talked to. When you film these
real objects in broad daylight, they produce multiple images. There are multiple images
of them generated around them that are not only literally you can see every view.
In some instances, it's not just the view you're seeing. For example,
I have two excellent examples in which up above the object is the whole
object clearer than the object. Films in broad daylight on ed jone turn ninety
degrees, where it's access of radial symmetry is parting toward the camera and sous
you see it rotated upward, foot upward at ninety degrees, and there are
other images around. If that that believe me, I have pictures. I
have movie films. One take my wife and I on February. I think
it was sixteenth, nineteen eighty six. We were out. We were going
to Andrews Air Force Base here on the east side of DC that's charged with
protecting the nation's capital. Was on Sunday afternoon. We're going to have dinner
with a colonel colonel friend of ours, and by golly, we saw two
of the motherships. One of them just fan of doubts, just like that,
they only remained and it launched objects and during This is the best example
that I have of the multiple imaging. It is incredible. I can show
you frames from that film in which you can count hundreds of multiple images.
I have other examples of this kind of thing too, But there is no
simple, ready explanation for this, even based on physics that people have already
talked about. I believe if we can get serious scientists to look at this,
somebody, and I've said this to many people, will get a Nobel
Prize because this is maybe even more important than the thing I'm talking about,
the mountain collapsing and the wavelength of light changing. This is something really truly
exotic. I could, but I don't like it because I'm not really a
theoretical physicist at all, not near there. But I could talk about what
I have discussed with others and what might create this, but you have to
get into quantum mechanics, and that's something that nobody really understands. You have
to express it mathematically. But anyway, that's another one of the phenomenon.
Another one, not quite as important, but very important, is the fact
that these objects just dart space time around themselves and therefore create what I call
the geometric surround, which it can be a rambus foor sighted thing, it
can be a polygon of various hypes, and it can change depending on certain
factors. But I have films of this, and also I have a picture
take in Brazil from a government project that was down there in nineteen seventy seven,
in which an object was photographed from their aircraft in broad daylight. And
the object looks like a glowing all over it, but definitely you can make
out there's some sort of a probably a domed disc. But when you look
at the shadow now, which goes across the stream or a river down there
in the jungles, the shadow is foresighted, which means probably that the person
on the ground the look up and think they were seeing a war sided object
from up above where you're not seeing that effect of the warping of the light
passing around it. You're seeing a disk. So that in itself is interesting,
but it's not nearly as exotic and important to physicists as the other two
phenomena that I mentioned. Ray, When these people you were talking about earlier,
high ranking officials are high ranking and somewhere in the government. I know
that you're right there at Guardard Space Center because I visited you there and we
went over there together, had a great time. But when you're talking about
when these high ranking people have actually come to your house and have seen these
things, what were their reactions? Oh, tremendously excited and positive. I
mean absolutely, there's never been a negative person at all. I mean I
love to get people that just are skeptical or just say man, I can't
buy this stuff, and bring them in and show it to them and they
change their absolute real fast. You know, the people that really go over
this and understand it are the people with the most education. The media make
the like you, They seem to make people try to get them to think
that it's only uneducated people. Maybe somebody who never had an high school education,
in the Ozarks that believes in the day. Oh no, theiher.
The more you're educated, particularly an aerospace engineering, electronic hineering physics, the
more likely you are to accept the possibility of for example, alien live alien
technology and it potentially visiting the Earth. But these people also are the ones
that have the background to see it and appreciate it. You you appreciate something
in some extent to the degree to which you understand it, and they understand
readily these things because they have most of them have background in this physics.
And I'm not going to call names, and I don't own to you if
you already know the name of one, well known, internationally known, major
world class theoretical physicists came here and he said, you know, he said,
I really appreciate what you've showed me. He spent I think it was
ten and a half hours here and he just handed me a check for one
thousand dollars and said, I appreciate it, right, thank you. Wow.
Now, someone was in the chat room is wondering, why then,
why don't you publish when you have something that's good? Why should I?
Well, I'm not here to entertain the public. I'm not here to convince
anybody that ET is here. All right, Well, let me just say
for me along those lines, rate, what do you think the advantages of
hanging on to this? And do you think if someone else has something really
really good, like a really good film, that they should also you know,
keep it private like you are, and show just certain people if they
if they have the film, they must not know it. But I would
probably have heard about it by the grapevine, I would think. But even
if there's things out there, Look, the average Joe does not know what
this means. I do not understand the importance of it to research and development.
The people I deal with do. This has been my goal, you
know, I think I told you when you're here, I probably showed you
a picture of some pretty good sized rockets that I built and launched on Padre
Islan in my high school days. I got to In my senior year,
I got the top A ward in the Physical Science of the Texas Junior Academy
of Sciences for my paper called the Experiments of Multiple stage Penncipal Rockttery. I
have built him out. My dream was to get people into space, not
to them to go out there and to see UFOs and b convinced that aliens
of hissingis. But because I have always felt the more we see looking down
on the earth, as the late Edgar Mitchell said, when you look down
and you see the world, you realize, hey, here's all these people
caught up on the least hatreds and problems in there. But we look very
much as one from out there. I have always believed that the more we
see the universe, hopefully maybe this is a pipe dream, but that will
have. This is my goal, and I have if anybody has bothered to
spend the mirror nine dollars or whatever it is to get Chris Lambright's book on
called X, descending half of which talks about how I helped the government get
the secret of the beam ahead to travel through the atmosphere at high personic speeds
without ever having to push the atmosphere away, produce a sonic boom and does
spend a lot more energy than the otherwise would if they've bothered to spend nine
dollars, if you don't do it and read the darn thing and see his
evidence, he did a wonderful, wonderful job of documenting completely proving that I
was the one that gave him the idea. And that's one thing I've given.
I'm proud of it. And as he thanked me, my wife was
a witness to at least one of the of the three times he thanked me,
he said, for giving your government a quantum leap through the atmosphere and
into space, into space this week. You know, if that's that technology,
that beam ahead is still being researched. I don't suspect it is.
I see no reason why it didn't. I know that the Magni dynamic craft
that was involved that Chris talks about there that it was no secret. I
mean, I've found it on the internet. They had a multimillion dollar grounded
the They had to power this with a microwave beam. So they have a
very microwave shielded a nice beautiful large called it a mobile home type situation that
is totally shielded and grounded, and as nice Western Indian decorations in it and
so on and so forth. And they do that because they're launching these things
and they can be microwave scatter, and that was happening that I've seen that
it's about than eight years ago now, so they must be a lot further
beyond that. But believe me, when it gets to certain stage of R
and D research development, you're not going to hear about it. You don't
hear about these things until you know, ten fifteen years later, when they
become economically integrated into financial necessities of transportation, you don't hear about it.
But I am proud that I gave that, and I asked nothing for it
whatsoever, as can be verified by anybody who knows about the situation, and
by the guy who brought his professor into for me to show this to him.
They were at an advanced propulsion conference that got her Space Flight Center,
and he told me that they learned far more with me than they ever learned
there. And he asked me, he said, ray, but I embarrassed
to ask you this. But we don't know how to land this darn they,
he said. We have this magnetohydynamic feel, which means they are electrifying
the air into a plasma around it and moving it with a magnate feel.
But with that spinning around, we rotate landing gear out into that chaos.
Shockwaves can set up chaos, and we can crash the thing, killopolus and
so and then I said, of course, let me show you how they
do it, and I showed him a drawing from a multi witness case in
the Caribbean where occupants actually got out of the thing. I said, now,
look carefully, I said, you're talking about opening these landing gear out
on the flange, out of the ads to the flanges, because that's in
typical a sense of physics, that's the safest place to have them if you
don't have that torn of magnet dynamic flow going that tornado coming around it.
But I said, look, you can't do that where you do. You
opened that, You have the magnetic calls out there, you have that flowing
out there, but there's a still place in the cone of the magnetic field
you open them there. And he said, my gosh, I don't know
why I didn't think about that in appreciation. A few weeks later and I
haven't. He sent it to me. He gave another talk in DC at
a major conference at this time, and he drew the landing gear in the
way I showed him and sent it to me in appreciation. Well, I'll
tell you what the PhD student that got him down here in the first place
told me. They left here one night at I don't know when they left.
They got back to Rinsel. They're probably taking us to New York.
At around two fifteen, two thirty in the morning, he said, I
saw Professor Merribone. He said, he ran up the stairs as soon as
he got here to the electronic drafting machine on the upper floor, drew the
new steamer for the landing gear in and sent it immediately to the Aerospace Technical
Intelligence Center of Dayton Oile. So I had direct him but into the design
of that, and I can I can prove it because he sent me the
thing here that they showed it in there, and there's no reason for him
to have sent it if I had not been the one that gave it to
him. And he did not know how, They did not know how to
land it until I told him, how does it? Hel put Off,
I'm sorry, what was this hel put Off? No, no, no,
not help put On. No, No, this wasn't help put Oh.
This was Thefessor Lake Marabo la Mirabil Kay, all right, yeah,
yeah, I don't know why I was confusing the two. Okay, no,
no, no, hell. Hel put Off is not an aerospace engineer.
Marrabo is an aerospace engineer. And he also, I'll tell you an
interesting story. He asked me, said, would you be willing to show
all this and and whatever you want to show him to another major major aerospace
engineer from California if I can get him out here to see you. I
said sure. Well, he said, look, I'm gonna put him in
contact with you in here from him anyway. Finally, after two weeks I
heard him. He said, I am frustrated. He said, I have
played it with him. I've already to pay his complete all his expenses to
come see. I've told him that you will give him the quantum leap that
I talked about. And he said I wanted him to come. And you
know what he said. He said, he said to me, I would
not go across the street to talk to any lying SOB that claims he filmed
a UFO. And you know what, Professor Marribau told him. Wonderful guy.
He said, look, okay, presume that he's crazy and it's all
the hopes the go. Listen to him anyway, you learn something that's pretty
funny. Let's see. So I think I told you. We do have
some questions in the chat room. Also, one of the thoughts. So
I've been thinking about and I talked earlier with Alejandro about triangles, and I
know you mentioned that in the Mexico sighting. You said the large craft was
a triangle. But what do you make of all the triangles sightings? That
just seems like there's so many? And have you seen just to follow up
with that, have you also seen a change in what people are seeing through
your many years of research? Absolutely not, Sam. When you have an
advanced technology, this is so advanced, so far beyond this that you don't
need to change models ever two years by new breakthroughs. Listen, I filmed
these things. The first time that I got several times of triangles broad daylight
filmed was during the twelve twelve seventy seven event from Beta Flight nine when I
was flying back from being on the old TV show to Tell the Truth and
from LaGuardia to Dallas Fort Worth. But I have subsequently and I can't name
it, but even it's certain. Well, I was certain government installations.
I actually have two amazing films that I got when I was at government installation,
nothing to do with government objects, but that happened to be visiting the
sky at that time. I've got wonderful examples. I know. I wish
I could get that one guy I can't remember his named, Dave whatever that
does the research on triangle objects. A nice guy, Dave Mouller. Yeah,
and I wish I could get him here. He keeps saying it will
come, but he never makes it. Like the rest of these guys.
If they really believed me, though, if he really knew what I could
show it, he'd be here tomorrow because I had daylight film I have for
example. Now, the biggest one of these types were there were these objects
shot in near this gigantic carrier on twelve twelve seventy seven. Actually there are
three of these gigantic carriers. I'm talking about the one that was Two of
them are down nearby and shot a plasma beam into a thunderhead off to the
southeast of us and drew plasma and tried to conceal himself. The other one
was up in the stratosphere and beautifully clear and were wonderful plasma raised it did
not become I on vapor And before that thing left, big tranger, black
triangular, I just came and docked point down under the bottom of it.
Let me first say that we have two methods of the determining the size of
that object. We spent one hundred and seventy I believe one hundred and seventy
nine hundred and eighty nine thousand dollars studying that film alone, and we determined
the distance and the size of these objects. These objects are huge, and
they dock point down under an object that itself is fourteen thousand feet long,
that's two point sixty five miles, And they are huge, hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds of feet on the side, and they docked with a point down.
But the side that they put up to the bottom of this object,
and I'm not gonna bother to go into I actually know that the shape of
this object is not round, is long. It's thirty times longer than it
is stick. But it actually the where they plug into the bottom, you
actually have a slight wedge in an angle that goes in is not a flat
side, and that side is the one that goes up and docks underneath the
bottom. Now why did they dock that way? Because there's magneto hydnamic flow.
It's electrifying the air in the use in the atmosphere doesn't mean distant space.
But it's using magnetohydnemic flow and you would interfere with it. But by
putting the point down underneath you actually, in theory at least would probably enhance
the lift effect of the magnetohydnemic flow. But before that film ends, six
of these objects docked to point down beneath that incredible object is so big we
jokingly don't call it the mothership. We call it the grandmother. And then
it rotated about nine degrees when slowly up and all of a sudden there was
this incredibly brilliant flash and it vanished completely. Now that is the biggest type.
But I have a wonderful film from let's see, I have movie film
and I have still a film with good pictures from October fifteen nine and eighty
four when there were let's see. The witnesses ront yard were my wife,
my two oldest kids, the tax larger next door and his wife, and
we had six additional witnesses in Lano, Texas to this. But we actually
saw and photograph. We got to see a forty eight power and photograph at
twelve power. We had a four power view device on top of my camera
to make it at forty eight power. But we got photographs of the mothership,
which is small. It's relatively small. It's fourteen hundred feet to the
fourteen thousand feet, and we have there are several types of deltoid objects that
come up to that thing, but my favorite one is what I call the
flying wing, and it actually has a one wing. You can see triangular
objects docked on its wings, smaller triangular obviously, and on the nearer wing
you can see the spaces, the lighter blue spaces where apparently two of these
objects were sitting but had presumably taken off. And it's very daylight, and
you can see the reflection of the glow of the mothership off the back edge
of this beautiful wing and the devices on the wing. It's all daylight,
light and shadow. And Dave Martyr would go crazy to see this. But
there's there are numerous types. There was also from the twelve to twelve to
seventy seven Grandmothers we called it. There's another type that's a delta that has
flat sides but the vertices are round it and it has some interesting features on
it, and I have numbers of examples of that, and I also have
pictures of that that was photographed to buy a incredible person in Brazil in broad
daylight. So this has been photographed by more than one person, to say
the least. Now, there is also another wonderful type that veries slightly informed,
but I call the clip wing delta, and take the delta and clip
the wings, and sometimes they have things that stick up on the tips of
the wings that may be triangle and can change angles. But these things are
beautiful and amazing, and I have some wonderful My favorite shadow of that was
when I was on January twentieth, nineteen seventy seven, I was flying down
from Canada and we were flying over I believe Kansas broad daylight, and I
followed a huge triangle up down from way above the airline. You're feeling it
down to where it actually came down near deaf the ground that was partly snow
covered, and you can see the shadow of the object owned the snow merged
with where the object comes down, but it around that object when it was
uphire above our airliner, one of these clip beautiful clip wing deltas moved at
incredible speed around the near side of it, and you can actually see the
multiple imaging from it alongest trail, and the beautiful thing is glowing a beautiful
turquoise color. And then there's also what I call the the curve wings swallow,
the stratospheric swallow that's been described by people from on the ground in Broadela,
but I filmed it from an airliner at the third nine thousand feet and
it is beautiful. Childed Dave Marler. If you hear this, anybody tells
you about that, you better get over here. In the words, I
want to show these two people that matter. I want them to understand and
be able to tell people, No, these are not Yes, yeah they're
black Project Deltoid, Sure there are, but they are nothing. They are
firecrackers, they're perotechnics compared to these things. These things not only that I
haven't mentioned, but they also have another property. It appears that they operate
in locally compressed time. Do I have evidence of this, Yes, indeed
I do, and in films and I'm not guessing. And there is film
evidence as well as anecdotal evidence from some cases that suggested these things locally compressed
time. And that's not original to me. I mean, John Keel was
talking about that idea way back several decades ago. But I do have film
that gives some offy convincing evidence that that's happening. Wow, okay, Ray,
let's see. There was a number of questions, and one of them
was do you know anything about the B fifty two nineteen sixty eight in the
Gulf of Mexico that supposedly was snatched? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I
was the one that put that information out because let me explain what happened.
I was working for the Snellings now in personnel firm. I think we were
only if I remember grade the fourteenth floor of the thirteenth floor of the new
seven hundred building there and downtown Converrey's Christie and I didn't know anything that happened
the night before, but I drove my car into I was staying with my
parents, and I came in and parked in the parking lot and went up.
Well. As I was there was an overpass you had to go to
get into downtown convers Christie. And as I went on the overpass, here
was my got off to the in the direction of what being mattagarda island whale
at the coast, there was an incredible object. Now understand, I know
what a lenticular cloud looks like. This was not alenticular cloud. This is
coast and we don't have any mountains that tend to produce by would leave waves
above them. A lenticular clouds. You could get an articular cloud atop a
thermal up flow from a you can get alenticative cloud above a thunder head.
But this was a beautiful clear day and here was a disc that had a
curved top. It looked like it was covered with the whitish vapor looking stuff,
but it came into a flat bottom with a black ring and it looked
like a gigantic black opening in the bottom of it. This thing was out
there. My god, what in the world. I went in and I
got all of our crew out. It was not at nine o'clock where we
have to deal with the finding people's people jobs. And we all went there
and watched from the north windows. And one of the guys live in factor
retired to Marine Master sergeant, and they were just troll and amazed. We
couldn't what in the world, Well, here's the thing we could see at
that distance. Turns out it was in the area of Madagoda Island. You
could see at that distance these tiny little vapor trolls as conversation wakes of reconnaissance
jets. They would timidly fly up toward this on a reconnaissance run and turn
around, go back and come back and make another run. These four guys
must have been scared out of their wits, considering what I learned had happened
there a few hours before. They were doing this, and we all commented,
my gosh, why are these jets making run on this thing. Aren't
these guys scared to death this kind of thing. Well, a little while
later I got bad hay fever from the front that was blowing some pollen in
from austin from the juniper trees, and I went across the drug store to
get some thing to spray in my nose i could talk to my clients.
And when I was over there, I heard the news and it said the
night before this B fifty two from Carswell Air Force Base, which had plenty
of fuel, and it was in a routine maneuver over Matagada Island, and
it said there was no broadcast of warning. Now this had numerous broadcast systems
in it. They had all kinds of electronic gear. I have the names
and the educational background of all the people that were aboarded who have never been
seen since this thing was there. It suddenly vanished off the radar scopes and
it was never ever seen again. Now, this thing had a lot of
fuel. Had a crashed on gob of Mexico, there would in an aw
slick per excellent, you would have seen debris. Ultimately, well, I
called Naval air Station Carpus CHRISTI had the responsibility of heading the search because they
were using their They even used one of the sub hundred aircraft and other aircraft
in that area. As they told me. Well, a few weeks later
and I've got all this. I can't call the date off the top of
my head. A mysterious little article appear in the Carpus Christie paper and they
said, the records of the B fifty two that disappeared off the coast of
madagarla Aven was found this week off the southern tip of padre Islan. Well,
hey, that's over three hundred miles away from work. It disappeared.
So that's why I called intelligence in Ascrpus Christie, and they said, listen,
if you find out who was responsible for that article. You call us
back and let us know because it is an outright lie. What we found
down there was a seat cushion with a coded number on it from a small
training jet trainer where we were training pilots that he crashed down there some months
ago. And this was merely a seat cushion, and the number told us
exactly which well we knew who was following it, what it was today.
It's a little bit of aircraft, nothing to do with that, and it's
an outright lie. And he used the words he said, we want to
know why that was put out because it is false. It has nothing to
do with that, and we're the ones in charge of the search for that
Bee fifty two. So anyway, that's the story. Now. I don't
know what happened, but my personal belief is that that big opening, that
what looked like an opening release I saw the bomb. That thing could have
swallowed the Bee fifty two and not even belst afterwards. I mean, it
was awesome, and to see these little planes it looked so tiny, just
making these runs on it. I mean, the pilots must have been terrified.
But anyway, that's the story. In response, to your question,
mar Wow, thank you. Now here's another one from the chat room.
A lot of people in the UFO field value your contributions and are eager to
have it shared, since it is not practical for everyone to be invited one
by one to visit your home. Is there anything that can be done to
convince you to share it on a broader scale? If not, is there
a plan for future years? Yes? Yeah, well good question. Yes.
Now here's the thing. I don't know how many people out there know
this, but I am heavily, heavily involved night and day, almost literally
into three in the morning. I'm working on the most complex scientific paper on
dinosaur and mammal and brying reptro tracks it's ever been. I mean, I
found this thing at Godd's Space Flight Center and we thought it was just the
track of the Lord notice Star, and turns out has over ninety footprints on
it, including those of at least thirty eight tracks of dinosaurs, at least
six or seven varieties, at least three to five varieties of mammals, and
forty semi tracts of mammals, and seven tracks of these flying reptols. Plus
they're feeding traces and a lot more, and it's very complex, and I'm
committed to getting this out soon because it's in a display case a god Iss
space Flight Center in the Earth Sciences Building thirty three, but it's covered.
It's like the government's secret because it has to be covered so nobody can photograph
it and jump us on the scientific publication. But I'm working day and night
now. When I get this done, there will eventually be an opening there
the world. Everybody listening to this will hear it in their TV, their
radio, everything that communications. This is going to be one of the biggest
patonological stories of history, and I have that from major, major paydontologists who
have seen it. But when I get that out of my hair, so
to speak, and get my I'm committed to see this through and get this
done. Then I am hoping that now I can sell plenty of books on
these things that were found in Godter's Space Flight Center, both for a dollars
and for children. I know that I can get a good advance on them.
But for some reason, I don't think anybody you know. I tried
to some of this when I first came up here in the early in let's
say eighty seven to eighty eight, and these publishers, I mean, I
had one that brought forth few of these cases, and these idiot publishers said,
we're not interested in this because it is scientific. We don't want anything
like that. We won't achieve with the public. Is basically not in those
words, but that's basically what they said. They don't bother us with a
book that. Well, my goal is to communicate with the people that are
intelligent enough to understand and appreciate this, and there are a lot of them
out there, including your listeners there. But I'm going to do it if
I live long enough and can get this done. All this, I mean,
people haven't seen what I got even here in my house, thousands of
dinosaurs, well over a thousand dinosaur tracks and tracts of other animals that were
living with the doose. But if I can ever get through this of writing
this scient paper and maybe writing the books on that, and I'm still living,
I won't to do But here's the problem. I'm not old fashioned,
but in this way I am. I want it. I appreciate a book
you can sit down in your easy chair and read. I'm tired of looking
at a screen and trying to read things. I prefer an old fashioned book
with good pictures, maybe with a good CD in the back of it that
shows you the most important films in pictures on your PC when you want to
go into that mode. But I want to do that, but I want
to do it in a way that teaches people when I release it, that
you It is not the idea of showing you a movie and gee with the
truth. Matter is, for example, these multi imaging. If you protect
this movie and look for these multiple imaging, you won't see it. You'll
see the object. All you'll see is a strange vibrating blue light around the
objects. But when you take it frame by frame, you see these are
in tones of blue and they pulse at high speed, multiple images appearing apparently
in sequence around these objects. You have to learn to look at these things
like I look closely at dinosaur and mammal TREATI find you look at them and
analyze them. It's not just for the g with the effect of having a
t Rex track on your coffee table. It's not that kind of thing.
I want to teach people how to look and to see these things so they
can begin to understand the physics and even talk to even their children about this.
That would be my goal. So I said, I'm not here to
entertain. My goal is education, and when I can get free of my
responsibilities to the Goddter's baith left center and this wonderful discovery out there, I
will try my best to get this out at the level that is my choice
of presentation. Education. It's not the g whiz, but is to educate.
Uh huh. And the last part of the question was, let's just
say in the future, like, you know, I actually have been to
your house and have seen these amazing things that you have, and I'm just
hoping that these you know, you do have a plan for the future.
Sure, so these things can be preserved and brought forward to future researchers.
Well, yeah, I tell you, I hope that the truth of better
is. You know, I'm seventy eight years old and or seven eight years
young, I prefer but you know, I have a few health issues and
not major one tried no unfortunately, but I am concerned. I'm concerned of
what would do this if I suddenly dropped dead. And I tell you truth,
I don't know anybody in the field because the people that I most would
respect if they come here and look at it, won't come. I'm not
going to name one PhD. But he he has answered every letter of every
community with except when I invited him to come. I even told him,
I said, I will if you come here and don't agree that this is
worth every since you've paid to come here, I will pay every expense you
had in coming here. He would need to answer that, because if he
answered me and said he's not coming, I would then have proof that he
had refused to come. Now that's I don't understand it, but I you
know somebody said to me the other day. I won't name it. Somebody
you know that you know there may be an ego problem here. Did Race
Standford here, who has no PhD, but who got out from an early
age in the seventies, raised a couple of million dollars in fund for instruments
and went out and got this stuff is doing this? It might be kind
of embarrassing to some of these people who present themselves on TV as UFO experts.
I get sick of seeing talking head UFO experts. I prefer to hear
them talk some UFO science and can one of them tell you even the frequency
at which these operate, the ELF extremely frequency magnet Fiel operates. I can
they can they tell you? Can they tell you? Can they Do they
even know about the multiple imaging? No? Do they know about the geometrics
around? No? And there are a whole lot of other phenomena, including
the time profression. Have they ever seen any evidence? What would it comest
to evidence of time compression? Well? I have some and I've showed it
to physicists and they say, yes, it appears from best you can understand
that that might well be the interpretation. But I don't understand the lack of
willingness for these people who say their interestedness to come here. I mean,
what have they got to lose if it's not good. If they think it's
not good, let them come here and say so. Let them prove it.
But it's not. They will know when they say it if if they
have a background. But I don't care for the many of the talking heads.
There is one or two people in this field that are not talking heads
and don't appear on TV very often, if ever, and they're good,
intelligent people, but only one of them has come Otherwise it's been scientists and
aerospace engineers who I enjoy talking with. But I would love to share with
some of these other people. If I, for example, now, if
I could get somebody of the caliber of Jacques falle to come here, who
said he wants to If I could get him to come here and see it,
he's the kind of guy that would have the cloud that could tell an
agent or a major publisher, hey, this is good stuff. Then yes,
I think I can get a published to publish it, and publish it
at an intelligence level to where it approached where it appeals to mainstream science as
well as scientific intelligence minded lay people. But without the help of these people.
Because you know, if you come out with something and you submitted to
an agent, he said, well, how do I know what this good?
I don't know anything about this. It's like a peer review without a
peer, with a peer that doesn't know anything about your subject. It's not
fear. Well they what do they do? They turn around and ask some
of these people out there that refused to come, well, I wouldn't come
because you know, he doesn't have anything to show me. I'm afraid that's
what they're going to say. If such people as by though, which doesn't
have the kind of attitude. He's a good guy. If I can get
them here, then they can help me and get a good agent and get
this out. But it has to be I will not give this to a
TV producer. I've seen the terrible, ridiculous asinine hangar one and similar things
like that that are an insult to the intelligent listener and watcher. It's going
to have to be presented in the way that I demand of a scientific paper.
You know, it's not going to be sensationalized. People are not going
to be shortchanged. They're going to be given the facts, all of the
facts, the interpretation of the facts, and then let them make their conclusions.
There will be none of this high that we see on TV. If
it ever goes to TV, it will be completely under my control at a
level that would be acceptful to If I asked some of the people at God,
for example, to come and view what was planned, if they didn't
approve of it, I wouldn't allow it. If they approve of it,
I would allow it. I want something that is that will cause respect from
mainstream size. I think I told you. I'm sure I told you that
last February I did speak with Sharques Valet out in Phoenix and did you know
drop your name, and you know, he seemed very interested. And I
know I believe Ben and Tony may have talked to him too. I believe
I'm not really sure about that. You Now, I have something that I'm
not going to go into here because it might treat some people out. But
I have some things I could have said about that Mexico film that happened that
Jack would love that. He absolutely there's things that he has said in the
past that it's a dovetail with a lot of you know, people think he's
far a thing, but look, yeah, he meant to be right on
everything. Of course he's not nobody's right on everything. But the thing is
he is the most intelligent, out of the box thinker in uthology. That's
my opinion of him. Yeah, and I respect him to this day,
and that is why I would love to share this with him. Let me
mention you sent me some questions, right, There's one question I wanted to
answer. Someone asked, why would you say if someone says, well,
those archadects were seen outside the Sacora object were merely a pilots for a black
project craft. My answer to that is, well, the person that said
that must not have any respect for Lani's Zamora as an observer or as an
honest person, because Lonnie Zamora explicitly said from the beginning he never referred to
them as people. He referred to them as small figures in what resembled white
coveralls. He stood right there in the ravine beside the Chryso Bush, which
is adjacent to the on the north side of the northwest landing gear imprint with
heineke and leave there, putting his hand at a certain limb level on the
bush, and said, the head of the nearest one came right here.
He's the one that turned and act like that. He had heard my car
and turned around, and he looked startled and kind of jumped. He said,
you can see what the head is. He said, couldn't been any
bigger than a little kid, to say, a ten year old kid.
That is how small they were. My answer to that, father is never
ever or black project craft designed to be posted by midges, because they ultimately
will be posted by normal full size pilots. And by the way, don't
know any trained group of midges to line back project craft anyway. But here's
another thing about that. Let's think about this. That was one of the
things that ultimately connced lonis the more that he was probably watching extraterrestrial beings and
things. He said that that one of the things that got to him.
He begins to suspicion the fact that the FBI man said, look, I
recommend you not tell people about those little beings beside it. Now, if
this were a black project craft, he would have encouraged it, because then
it would it would make people say, hi, it was he too,
and they wouldn't suspicion it was a black project craft. You see what I
mean, It would have gone the conversation would have gone the other way.
There's evidence that the intelligence community has done this that they love people thinking black
project craft were UFOs in the past, and they would have loved to have
done it here if it was really a black project craft. But it wasn't.
So if in lines the more describing small occupants, it clearly to an
ET or something that that's that's not not terrestrial wherever it comes from. And
so I would point out that there's a serious fallacy and even thinking that it
was a black project craft that they were trying to conceal because if they wanted
to see that get people to thinking it was an ET instead. Another.
By the way, this is from the forum of there's questions that are posted
there and anyone can join our forum at PODCASTUFO dot com. So there.
This one here is kind of going along with what you just spoke about in
that if you were approached by someone like Jeremy Corbel to do a documentary on
your really good investigation material over the years, would you agree to this?
And you're more or less said that if you had control of it, this
is something that you would probably do, right. I have no idea who
this person is that you mentioned. Familiar. Yeah, well, just say
someone like James Fox, so I know you know him because he's he stayed
at your house. Someone like let's just say James Fox. Well, uh,
first play one has to have the financing and they haven't even got enough
financing to finish up the movie. They're doing well. I told him,
I said, why don't why don't you focus on this good kind of evidence?
He said, no, we were We're focusing on the cases that were
that were unidentified from the blue but files. You know, whatever they're called
it seven hundred whatever you see was, which is kind of ironic and contradicted
by the fact that they now bought in this uh, this African case with
the young ladies in his son that were involved in that, which contacts that
position. But uh, but furthermore, I I really don't care for the
person who had you know, James was the uh I guess the producer,
but the guy that's the director of it, I really uh crossed ways with
him, and I don't like the way he treated me, the things he
said to me, And I wouldn't work with any movie that he was just
behind it as a director. Yeah, if you felt James is a great
guy, James Fox is a great guy. I'm not talking about him.
Yeah, okay, I guess. So the question is if you felt comfortable
with someone that was going to really do a good film, and you did
have some control over what was happening, I'd have to have total control.
I well, not just some control. I would have to see every bit
of it. It's just like my uncle friend brother was a professor at Saint
John's University of years and and he's very careful about seeing for anything that's published
that he says or this based even publication, based on a scientific paper thing
that he has total review rights, total review rights, and the ability to
uh nix anything that is not pretending things accurately. And I would have to
have that. But if you know, if somebody would bother, somebody,
good producer with good money financing would come if they see this, don't let
me explain. If they if they spend a week here and let me show
them and explain why this is so beyond. I mean, you've heard me
say it. Maybe Morton, I've said. These people that are streaming disclosure
disclosure big liar uncle Sam, who's lied to us in the nineteen forties,
tell us it's true. Who ask a liar to tell you the truth?
You know? They ought to have a disclosure project on me. Someone wrote
on the message board. Heinick was never convinced that Zamora the Zamora case was
extraterrestrial nature. I was unaware of that. Is that so well? I
would consider that. I'll put it bluntly bs okay in the first place,
Heinich. Let's understand this, Heinich. He talked about both sides of his
mouth. He told at the fort Smith UFO conference the media gathering there,
he said, no one can get direct evidence of UFOs. You can only
study reports because they're too unpredictable. No one can get instrument in evidence.
But guess what Before that, and for years after that until he died,
every time he saw me he would say, hey, ray, he knew
I had the instruments, Get me a spectrum. And also he brought two
flight experienced astronauts to our office and us and had me show them all these
amazing pictures from the twelve Tweve seventy seven movie and so on, and they
jumped out of their chairs when I told him I had a recording gravel meter.
They were so thrilled. They said, that's where you're going to get
the good stuff. How did they know? And Heinig didn't even didn't say,
hey, guys, how do you know? I think he already knew,
but I understand he Heinech. He also had another harpositis. Heinick was
very metaphysical, you know. He was a member of this metaphysical organization,
one of the so called Rosa Crucian orders in Kalla, not to be confused
with the Order AMRC, but a different one. I don't know if the
guy's name was Max Heinel or what his name was, but he was involved
with that. He had some very mystical ideas, and we've sat in my
living room in Austin several times in talked at linked about this. He really
felt that there was a higher dimension to this, and there probably is.
If I if I said all that I could say here tonight, even about
that case down in Mexico, they might realize that it's way beyond I will
want people. No matter what you think, these things are, at least
some of them are your way way off. They are so strange that I'm
not sure that not only we don't I know we don't understand it, but
I'm not sure we're capable at this stage of understanding it. And so in
a way, Heinech I think had some truth. If you say he didn't
believe it was et no, I think that's wrong because of I mean understand,
we had numerous conversations at our house and in our office, and that's
kind of the underestimating Heinech. It's just that he may not ever have wanted
to say that publicly. Maybe somebody knows him, and he said that at
some point, but I can guarantee you that this Urkor case was really the
straw that broke the Campbell's back to convince Alan that this was a most important
subject. There were other things, that this was the straw. Wow,
that's amazing, And he said that. He said that to me, I
mean, he loved that, and he loved Lniesimore and you that he was
one of the most wonderful, objective, honest men he'd ever met. Right,
I remember that, and so did you. Did you actually know Alan
well enough to see the transition that he made between being an investigator for a
project blue book and to actually, you know, believing there was a lot,
a lot going on. Well? Sure. Now, my first contract
with Alan was in nineteen fifty nine. It was related to the multi witness
to simultaneous color daylight movie films of a Mothership with Muller Abbe that we filmed
on July twenty eighth, nineteen fifty nine, and he communicated I have a
file an inch and a half thick of correspondents related to that case involving him
and another astronomer that he was working with. I think it was at Harvard
Observatory that not to be confused with mental but getting a hold of getting from
me copies of the film to look at and extensively he appreciated that my total
cooperation with the Air Force. That's why when you see that was where he
knew me from. And there was nineteen fifty nine. Well in nineteen sixty
four or five years later, a little less four and a half years later,
let's say, when Lonnie came in and he was gets getting ready to
go into the interview with Heinik, and I said, Donnie, looked,
Alan Honick knows me from nineteen fifty nine UFO case down in Carpus Christi where
we filmed some of these things. I said, would you please tell him
that Ray Stanford, the guy that was involved with that, is here and
would love to talk to him. And he said, oh, will and
guess what he did. That's why the next morning, when I was at
a supposed was supposed to be a closed session with Zamora and Sam Chalvias,
the police sergeant New Mexico State Police down at the landing site, when the
police dispatcher called down there and said, can can I send Ray Stanford down
there? And uh uh, Chalvis got on the phone and said, no,
this is closed, nobody's coming in here. He grabbed the grab the
radio telphone backrophone and said no, no, no, no, no,
no, I race taverage. Sure, send him down here. That's why.
And uh we became good friends. And uh after that, he called
me up one day and said, Ray, I'm I'm in Phoenix to address
the Founder's Day reception. Uh, the Northwest University Founders Day reception down here
at this resort in north of Paradise Fare. Scott steelsonwhere out there, and
he said, I really would like you to be my guest, and I
like to, you know, have dinner with you and so on and so
forth. And we did. And after that he visited me several times.
He fitched me in San Antonio. He visited me again and again in Austin,
and we have very good relationship. I'll close that part by saying my
funniest moment with Heineg was one time when I went to pick came up at
the airport and he had a leather briefcase and I said, Alan, let
me camp you it with something, and I grabbed the big suitcase. He
said, oh no, no, no, no, no, no,
let me carry that he said, you take my briefcase. Well, I
picked up this briefcase and it felt like it weighed forty five pounds. I
couldn't believe it. And I said, Alan, what in the world is
in this briefcase? Do you collect me to rites? He said, oh
no, oh no, and he laughed. He said, let me show
you. He opened it up and here was the most expensive bottles of whiskey
I've ever seen. And I said, Alan, I didn't think you were
much of a whiskey fan. He said, I'm not. He said,
I'm going to a meeting with airline. Paula said, I will loosen him
up to talk about UFOs. Oh that's something. Wow. So another question
on the forum, and uh, this is something that I actually saw with
my own eyes and and I hate to sound like a teaser out there for
the person that will not get a chance to see it, but this has
to do with the had you had a chance to do any analysis of the
photo which you recently noticed something seems to resemble the so Coral craft And I
will say, seeing that with my own eyes, that was the one photo
I was totally blown away when I visited you. And I know you want
to be real careful with that. Can you explain what you're going to look
to that? I just went there. I have a whole power part presentation
of that. I went the other night, and man, I'll tell you,
it takes everything in me to control myself. And I say, I'm
going to show this to the world, but I'm I'm I'm already in science
and I can't because I have to get time away from this, uh this
project to God or this incredibly context scientific paper. Imagine scientific paper that's going
to be about fifty pages long with huge numbers of photographs and discussions, and
you know you have to do it right when you do that, and it's
taking time. But when I get through it that then I can go.
I have all these files, tay. I mean, I have my oldest
files from I have an old file made out of that. I made a
little boards myself as a fifteen year old kid that has old files in it.
I go all the way back and got all these files. I have
to go through them and try to find the original negatives and original prints of
that photograph. They're here somewhere. Then when I look at them, if
that is optical, man, I will be thrilled to release it. But
unless I can see proof that these are real optical images as a result of
you know, light interacting with the emotion of the film, I can't release
this. If I release this, as you may know, it would go
viral tonight. Yeah it was. Actually it looks just like what lots of
motorscribed. Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to hold myself here because I'll
just tell you that it was actually one of the most things. Well,
I'm gonna just say it. It's the most incredible UFO photo I've ever seen,
And I just hope that you do get the time to check out the
source of the original to make sure that it's not some type of anomaly.
But I mean, I don't understand how it possibly could be. Yeah.
Yeah, If it isn't just a normally some kind of crap that got on
the negative or the template, the glass template the guy that printed the photo
was using, then I'll have to say I'll have to refer to one of
Chris O'Brien's books and say the trickster must have been involved. Yeah, yeah,
that would be really bisarre and it's crazy to think that that would be.
That it might be, but I want to be cautious. Yeah,
and even then I might release it and say, look, okay, this
is an artifact. But god, how in the world did this happen?
What are the chances statistically of just getting some crap on a negative that looks
just like what long? Is the word described? Exactly what he described?
Yeah, exactly? And that bothers me. I mean, you know,
maybe the universe is stranger. Did we ever imagine as well? As I
said a while ago, maybe a stranger than we can imagine? Yeah?
Yeah, And I totally agree with you. You probably heard me say that
since you listened to the show, that these things are probably something that we
can't even understand. And I do agree with that. That's probably what Some
of the things that we are seeing are just beyond our comprehension. Another question
in the forum was what other physical evidence exists at this time regarding this SoCoRo
case if anything. Well, oh, let me say that I totally dismiss
the claims of Mary G. Mays to the physicist with the institutent, I'm
sorry, physicians, yo, Jim McDonald, I totally dismissed those I've done
a pretty thorough investigation of her now and found out that at that time when
she started that story around, she was employed by a corporation in New Mexico.
I have ama files. I'm not a name because I can't remember off
the top of my head, but that was definitely involved with government contracts,
and I believe that this was an attempt to in case MacDonald's going to take
a serious interest, is to sidetrack him into something that later would be disproven.
I say this because after she did that, she even dropped in at
his office one day to try to convince him, seemingly about this. But
guess what, after all this died down, she changed her name right after
this. Her name was changed and all her scientific papers have a different name.
I have the name of my files, by the way she used to
see. She died I think November a year ago, this pat Newgamer.
I could be wrong. I don't remember the date, but I have a
whole lot of details and information on her. There are some very He was
involved in a lot of things related to the government and relationship to nuclear testing
and the effects on organisms and plant life and animal life and so on,
because you know, there was a lot of nuclear testing going on in those
periods and so she had a pretty high level of security clearance, and I
believe this was a put up job. Furthermore, I have a complete correspondence
of doctor McDonald's copies of it with persons in secoral and believe me, one
of the persons, who is a scientist who who was employed at at the
university there absolutely talk to everybody involved and there was no such thing as these
rifts of moat and glass in the ravine in the first place. Ted Jordan
didn't see him, and he went around photographing anything that was interesting. And
by the way, I just came across a government document that shows that they
did have his pictures developed that heinez as they would not release back to him
because they showed effects of radiation. I have a document that shows that they
were in fact in the hands of an officer whose name I have there in
Zacoro. By I mean it was Sunday, and so this proved that,
well, they had his pictures there. And I'm going to say too much,
but except I believe that they had them there because the pictures showed effects
of radiation and they wanted to look at them. I think they showed part
of the scene but and and and the landing traces, but they wanted to
look at them in the context of the glows or effects on the film in
certain areas, so they would know where to look with the radiation device,
probably a similator counter. I hope it was better than a Gaga counter that
they used there. And but I do believe that the story that she spread
was she spread it. She had fairly recently gone to work for this corporation,
and I believe that it was one of these put up jobs. But
the intelligently immunity to try to sidetrack and ultimately make if he took this case
seriously and pushed this as evidence to make him look foolish. Well, getting
back, just going off that topic, but what is your take on this?
Another one from the form, what is your take on UFO sightings reported
around nuclear missile basis? Well, I certainly accept that a lot of them
more I'm not sure that every all of them are, but I think a
lot of them are. There's a history. I mean, Bluebug admitted that
there was tremendous concentration of things around White Sands, and of course the reason
we went out to White Sands in July on July nineteen, nineteen seventy eight,
and beyond was because I had been on the Phil Donahues Show. And
what happened was, I'm just trying to get a shirt off here. I'm
making some noise of getting gound of hot in this room. But I on
the show, and the sister of a scientist physical scientist working in White Sands
heard me, and she didn't realize we were there and off now, and
how she'd missed it. We been on so much TV in the newspaper,
but she had missed it, and when she heard it, she got excited.
She called her brother. The scientists White Sands looked together. They'd had
an incredible close ratings siding with probable abduction when they were little kids, and
so she called him and said, hey, Bubba, by guys, this
guy has his lab with all this fantacy equipment right here outside of Austin,
and jeez, I thought you'd like to know about it. He said,
Listen, you'd better get them to come out here. He said, for
the last several weeks, we've been plagued by these things so much so that
we have a directive from intelligence to use any means at our disposable disposal to
obtain intelligence on these objects. He said, I can't get them on the
base, but if they will sneak around it, I can guarantee him they're
going to see them. Well, of course that's not unusual. White Sands
had been plagued off and on numerous times, and we went out and by
golly before we got there West tex it's just west of Plains, Texas,
in broad daylight. We got incredible film and we got our first magnetometer recordings
with direct correlations with the maneuvers. We didn't get a gravel meter at that
time because we were so excited. We've forgot to put the grab meters since
you're out of the Silbarado four wheel drive that we had, and so it
was too noise stuff from being in the vehicle. But I guarantee you after
that that night, when we encountered the two objects communicating with lighted panels and
the communication attempt on the edge of White Sands occurring up on the Spota Peak,
I guarantee you we had it out and we got some fantastic and wonderful
stuff. But that's just one more example of these objects being around there.
You remember nineteen fifty seven. All the sightings occurred soon after Sputting was launched,
and these objects were coming down the middle of roads and affecting vehicles.
Well, I had a friend that was working for the government in checking on
efficient use of funding and waste, and he was at white Stands doing that
and he actually saw one of these objects at night. He went to the
head of intelligence White Sands, dutifully and said, look, I saw that
thing too, let me tell you what I saw. Well, they became
friends and ultimately they had of intelligence that White Sands showed him the old lack
and white movie of the V two being launched, and of these objects multiple
I think two or three. I'm circulating around, circling right around it as
it flew up, and then finally flying off in the distance, leaving it
like about out of hell. He actually showed that to him, and my
friend saw it. Wow. So you know, the fight that area is
an area that they've taken interest in, and there's no reason they wouldn't take
interest in the missileside. To tell you too, I think there is a
group of them that is quite concerned about that we might destroy ourselves. And
of course I'm getting even more concerned about it now when we hear what's happened
m the I think you already answered this, But since you've been investigating the
subject for so many decades, have you any change of UFO sightings from the
beginning till now? I do not believe that the basic shape of these things
have changed at all. I mean, for example, I can show you
some of my films that Mothership. They've fit in directly with the stuff described
in France in nineteen fifties. And the delta objects had been described even well
before that, even in painting from way back, as you may know,
and I guess it was what is the fifteen hundreds of sixteen seventeen hundreds whatever
in Europe, And these things are so advanced, I wouldn't be surprised if
some of these things we see are not hundreds of thousands of years old.
And I wouldn't be surprised if some of these cultures that might be coming here
are from suns that are vastly older than their own, and that long ago
that planets were only nests from which they as birds hatched, and they fly
to the universe, not traveling space, but traveling space time I believe that
out side or atmosphere where they need magneto hydnamic proportion, that they actually use
field proportion of a type that does not make me hydnamic at all, but
that involves space time itself, such as you know, you hear the Abiquire
or whatever the guy's name is, space time drive something like that, in
which I think they don't travel an influent number of locations in this space time,
but they actually work space time and move themselves forward in it. Amazing,
Wow, amazing. So we got about ten minutes left trying to I
know that you wanted to cover a lot of different topics, and have we
done a pretty good job at doing everything you want to We have. However,
we missed one topic. Okay, if these, if anybody is listening,
that I consider important in this field and sincere and on the level and
scientifically aren't miss You know, people study these reports of occupants. Well,
we have daylight film in which multi witnesses in which we have occupants visible in
the craft. Now I've showed these two key major people, including a God's
Faith Last Center, and they have held it very acceptable. One of these,
the one we call guard, that was filmed in the afternoon of July
twenty seventh, nineteen seventy eight. We went on that trip because of what
we learned from the gout in White Sense, and we got over in Phoenix
from the Skull Valley overlooked from the mothership. In the distance, this object
and other objects approached. As I said, we got the recordings of the
magneto or the gravel meter output in this on the stoord. But in this
case this thing is sitting. You can see the emitters. You encount the
emitters on the side of his vehicle. You can see the panels. These
vehicles are usually most people think disc around. They're not. Most of them
are actually made out of sections if they were put together like a pie,
and they are actually polygonal. It's that when the plasma world's around them,
it looks circular and you can actually see the emitters. You can see inside
there. You can see that he's sitting there with his left arm on his
left thigh presumably, and his right arm is up on something that may be
an instrument or something. But he's looking straight, dead straight at us down
there with the camera and the instruments. In the best picture, but my
favorite one is probably not that one. My favorite one is the one when
he had the group of six people in their front yard and an object over
the mothership suddenly vanished and at a five hundred of a second, the next
time you see a couple of streaks, that stops, and you see that
he stopped, and you can actually look inside and you can see what I
believe to be a little guy with big ears. I'm not kidding, this
is real. In that case, we had six witnesses in their front yard.
We had a total of thirteen witnesses to the mothership, and some of
the smaller out in Lano and one witness in San Angelos as the mothership went
on over. But one of the witnesses, this was a tax learn his
wife and man. They were thrilled when they saw the picture that we'd gotten
of Big Ears, as we call him. I mean, he said that
this scares me so much, right, he said, He said, I
can't look at it. He said, I'm afraid it's going to make me
religious, and I don't want to turn religious. Yeah, but right now,
one other question, have you ever looked into have you ever thought about
the theory that people do talk about that you know these some of these craft
that people are seeing could be multi dimensional. Well, see, they have
to define that. The trouble is they never define that what they mean by
multi dimensional, I mean we're multi dimension. Let's say we're three dimensional and
the physical there's time the fourth dimension, so we're multidimensional. See when they
talk that, they're talking a fantasy. We need a definition of what they
mean by multi dimensional. I mean people, then we'll start talking about thanks
and strength theory usually, but the truth is not only do not most people
not understand what strength theory is out. Truth of the matter is, strength
theory is still theory and it is far far from proven. I'm not saying
it's not valid, but see that doesn't displine it. We need these physical
records of film and electronic to analyze and see. Yes, some of this
evidence I'm talking about it may lead us to a lot of exotic conclusions that
we did not anticipate. I'll tell in brief I'll try to condense this.
But I interviewed a very sincerean woman who was a student at the same college
that two of my own kids got their degrees from and in Texas in San
Marcus and she had been out with two other girls procrastinating studying for their tests.
And they went out, you know as kids, well you know,
finding excuse to not study, but they knowing they should. They encountered the
UFO. They saw strange things crossing the road in front of them. Their
car got out of control and floated above the road, and they got the
boy skeeared out of them and they had missing time. When they came back
down the scat, the car was put back down on the ground. They
went back to their dorm. They found out what really blew their minds was
they found out they didn't need to talk to each other. They could read
each other's thoughts for a while. And but the worst thing was the pupils
of their eyes glowed, and they got They were so late from being abducted
that the darm mother had locked the dorm and they had to ring for her,
and they rang, and she came to the door and saw them with
their pupils blowing. Wow that is, and then they went up to their
room. Well let me tell you the rest of the story. Years later.
Now, this young lady she graduated and she got married, and I
didn't know who she got married to. Well, there was two friends of
mine came into town to Louisiana, and one of them coming said, look,
my buddy's here with me. I've told him that story about that girl
that got inducted in their eyes glowed. He said he wants to meet her.
Could you contact her and we'll treat you to dinner, take you charge
of your restaurant. And I said, well, I have no way to
contact her because she got married. I don't know her marit name. Okay
one in the first place, let me say she's been married for you know,
three years or so. If you go out to eat, you choose
a nice restaurant. There are many wonderful restaurants in Austin. If you know
Austin, you don't choose a restaurant in a hotel. They're the worst restaurants
anywok. And so I said, well, look, this is nearby where
you're staying with us. Go in this hotel. You know'd be halfway Digent's
food. So we sat down in this hotel and we're sitting there talking and
I and all of a sudden there's a guy and his wife come in and
sat down at the table neck and the Maitre Date setting down to the table
next to us, and she kept looking over at me, and after a
few minutes she a little nervously got up and she said, pardon me.
She said, you raise standard, aren't you? And I said yes.
She said, do you know who I am? I said, well,
you look vague for me there, but I'm not sure. She said,
you know the one that we got floated off the road that we were procstivating
our tests. So let me tell you. Those two guys are almost collapsed
out of their seats fell, I mean their jaws dropped, and minded to
tell me how is the universe made? Morton? Yeah, And she and
her husband showed up at that unlikely place to eat in Austin, right there
beside us, when they had asked, see it. There is somebody else,
something else in control that we don't understand. And people try to put
it into a box and just say, ah, it's aliens, you know,
tourists coming here. At least some of it is way beyond that.
And I don't understand it. But I will swear my life on a stack
of Bibles, which I don't even believe in swearing ome because I don't think
the Bible that seriously as being ultimate truth. But I was swear on the
lie detector that story is absolutely true, and those two guys of this day
would tell you it's the most amazing thing ever happened to them. Now,
is that the first time, since you've been at this a long time and
we only have like two minutes left, is that the first time that you
had ever heard of missing time? Or if not, when the first time
you actually heard someone described that. The first time I heard a missing time
was when my article about our experience of party rolland with police witnesses and police
Sabbath David Spirit of Faith magazine in nineteen fifty six, and the son of
a retired Air Force general in San Antonio came and contacted me, and then
he had to go out to a family reunion thing out in New Mexico.
And he called me back and he said, listen, he said, you
know you talked about you know you believe in in those days, I believe
the Danskin was high. Cool kid. He said this is He said,
I think that's a bunch of crap, because he said I was diving out
there and his little MG and he said this damn this suddenly appeared in front
of me, and the next thing I knew, Cerah laid the sons of
bitch just dropped my car down come down to San Antonio Sea and I went
down there and here was the beautiful fender of this MG was all den in
where they dropped him on the rocks, and he said, I don't know
what they did that they got me because they put me down on the wrong
highway and I had to drive until I found somebody could tell me where I
was for I could get back to where I was going. That was nineteen
fifty six, well before of course, Wow, how about that? How
about that? Well? Ray, that's it for this evening. Thanks so
much, my pleasure. It's always been a real pleasure to talk to you.
And we'll be U. I'll be talking to you soon. And thanks
again for being a supporter of the show and listening to the show. And
we'll have you back of course. Okay, good hey, folks, give
this guy some support. He has a one off the show. Thank you,
all right, thanks a lot, Ray, good night, all right,
everyone. So that's it for the show, and I want to thank
everyone that helps out with the show. Alejandro Rojas Our guests. Of course
Ray the Dark Matter Digital Network for running our show on Thursdays. Also,
I want to thank Peggy for managing the Facebook page. Remember you can like
us on Facebook for all the latest UFO news. Now, next week we
have Harry Drew. He is going to be talking about the Kingman Arizona UFO
crash. I've been on the fence about that, whether it actually happened or
not. It should be an interesting show and we'll see how that goes.
So anyway, Happy New Year to everyone and we will be here next week.
Remember to keep your eyes to the sky.