And welcome to the show, and Martin willis your host. We've got a
great guest tonight. Palmer, who shows me a lot of things going on
in the UFO world, sent me a link to Jim Quirk the Quirk Zone
on YouTube and I watched him and it was like, Wow, this guy
is great. So he's our guest tonight, and he's got a great sense
of humor, he's got a really good background, he knows the topic,
dives in deep. So it's a pleasure to have him on tonight. My
blog by Charles Lear this week on our website podcast UFO is Russian UFO Reports
Now. And the US Congressional Record. That's something that George Knapp he entered
on July twenty six, when I was actually there sitting behind him. That
same day he entered that into Congress that day. So that story is all
about that. And I got to tell you, I was up in Shag
Harbor, did a talk up in Shag Harbor this last weekend, got back
on Monday, and I almost didn't want to come home. I gotta I
gotta tell you, it was so much fun and I just can't believe the
amount of people that came up to me that listened to the show up there.
It's really high per capita. I did the talk. I'm going to
show a couple of images, and they actually make Shag Harbor beer. So
if you haven't, if you haven't really looked into that particular case, I
consider it one of the top cases. It's Canada's roswell. A lot of
people call it. I made a video. It's on my YouTube channel and
please do check it out. It's I followed. Uh, this guy Laurie
Wickens around. What a wonderful guy he is and a lot of fun and
he's got that really strong Nova Scotia accident accident, accident and on a real
swell guy, and here he is. I thought that was a fun clip
because we were pretty far away from Shag Harmer at that point. We pulled
into a restaurant and they actually had a menu with you know, a flying
saucer on and everything for us. And but anyway, if I started naming
names, there's so many people that were so great. Like I said,
people came. One guy said he drove three hours just to meet me.
So it was a wonderful experience. People were friendly, beautiful, Coastline,
and the event happens every year. I strongly suggest to go, and I'm
thinking of going next year and just taking a week up there and just going
to the event as everyone else would go, and just have a really good
visit in the I have been there, you know, a few times in
the past, but it's really a beautiful, really beautiful location. So I
got to hang out with some fun people. And then of course Dan Alioto
was there, and we're just showing here how serious we take the UFO topic.
So you can see that right there anyway, So I am about ready
to bring him my guests. Welcome to the show, Jim, Thank you
Martin. Good to be here. Yeah, Jim, you have you have
a good you know, a journalist background, and you are you've taken on
this you die. I've been deep. I got to ask you you must
do. I've watched a number of your shows and I'm going to Your shows
are your YouTube channel and your podcast is linked. Anyone can check it out.
It's linked in the text below in the show notes. For those of
you listening to audio, you really make a lot of good points and you
know you're you kind of you can kind of bem. You call people out.
That's what I'm gonna say. You call people out, and the people
that you call out. I gotta tell you, I have to agree.
I have to agree. Now, you and I both have kind of the
same opinion of the encounters Steven Spielsberg Encounters the second episode, the first episode.
I was really glad to see past guests and who I consider a friend.
Matthew Roberts was on that and and the second and a lot of other
friends that people that have been on the show and the episodes here, Robert
Powell, people like that, and the the Ariel's School incident phenomenon. I
watched your video on that, and you and I have kind of the same
attitude about the naysayer, and you know, uh. And then I got
some flak from people saying, well, this guy was there, he should
be able to say his opinion, and I'm all fine with that. I
do think, you know, freedom of speech, blah blah blah. But
he really in two thousand and eight he was an adult. If he was
just a kid when he was saying that something really happened there, he really
wants to know what it is. If he was just an adult fine.
I mean if he was just a kid, fine, But he was an
adult. He was about twenty four years old in two thousand and eight when
he said something definitely happened. Then he goes on you know this Netflix SERI
and He series, and he's saying, you know that the other sixty two
and there was more than that. By the way, you know, the
kindergarten children were not involved, but they did a lot of them did witness
that. They weren't interviewed or anything. But anyway, he goes on to
say that everyone was a liar. You know, spoiler alert for those of
you who have not watched that episode. But he's calling everyone saying that they
it was kind of a mass hysteria that he created. So you and I
both agree on that. You know, he shouldn't have you know, maybe
he should have spoken. I don't know why why he did that, I
don't understand, but there is a reason. I don't know what it is.
I would love to have him on with someone like Selma Siddek and have
a discussion on that, you know, have them too together. So anyway,
I think, well, this guy's name is Dalen Vico, and I
think that I mean he could just be looking for a five minutes of fame
or whatever. I mean, something to that effect. I mean, maybe
he was upset or holds a grudge because back in two thousand and eighty did
the interview for Randall Nickerson for the documentary that finally was released last year,
Aerial Phenomenon, and he wasn't I mean, he wasn't featured at all in
that documentary. Maybe he holds a grudge for that. Maybe somebody gave him
money. Maybe he just was looking to get his face on finally, and
this was the way he figured to do it. I'll just tell a different
story than everybody else, whatever the case. I don't remember seeing him as
a kid, and any of the old interviews talking, I don't remember.
And if it would if if that were the case, there would have been
at some kids would have said, oh yeah it was Dale and Vico who
told pointed out to me and said, yeah, he out there, there's
an alien and a spaceship. I mean, it was just so absurd,
and you could tell the way he was talking. He seemed like his head
was going down. His body language it just stunk of lies to me.
And so that's why and I think the only reason they put him on that
show was because they probably felt that they were they had no choice. I
mean, you hear you have all these sixty some plus kids, plus the
teachers, some of the teachers saying that, yeah, this happened. Well
the one teacher was agreed, the headmask, the headmistress, and you have
all these people. You hear one guy say no, I was the one
who pulled us, played a prank and they all fell for it, which
is is absurd on its face. I mean that makes it look like little
kids are all dumbbells, because I mean, when you have that would be
I know what it was like being in first grade, second grade, third
grade. If somebody took pointed to a rock and said, hey, hey
Jim, there's a UFO and an alien, I would know that it was
just the rock. I'm not that dumb. I knew. I know.
Kids aren't that dumb when they're you know what I mean, that's what this
guy's trying to say. So I didn't believe. I couldn't I understand where
they had them on. I don't think they had a choice. I think
they felt like they had to do it. I mean, what else could
they do. You have a guy saying something totally different than all these other
witnesses, but you could tell the guy was lying. Well, you know,
someone mentioned that, well perhaps someone paid him off, and you know,
and then other people saying how ridiculous that is, But it's not because
it has happened in the past. Philip Class supposedly purportedly, I don't know
certain on that, but he had made an offer to have one of the
people involved in the Travis Walton case to claim that it never happened. You
know. So these type of things have happened over the years, you know,
but it's rare and it really sometimes doesn't make any sense. But I
do believe that this is such an important case that if they were going to
if someone usually something like this has to be done out of fear, in
my opinion, you know, I mean, someone doesn't want this to be
true. It just disrupts too much. So that's the only motivation I could
possibly think. But I also was saying to my producer better half et cetera
recently after we watched it, that it could be a sour grapes thing.
He didn't get put in the show. A lot of people didn't get put
on the show. I had a wonderful guest, Francis Cheramuda was on this.
He was an excellent guest. He was filmed for that and I thought
he would have been a great person to have in Randall Nickerson's Aerial Phenomenon.
But he didn't make the cut, and unfortunately a lot of people didn't because
Randall had just had so much to work with, and like you mentioned in
your tape, he took I forget how many years, you know, many
over twelve years, twelve or more years to do that film, and he
put his heart and soul and and everything he had into that and beautiful,
beautiful film. Yeah. I mean to me, that movie, the Aerial
Phenomenon film that was released last year, to me, that constitutes that's evidence.
I mean, if you were to go in the court at a law
and hand that to the judge and the jury were to look at it while
it was obvious, and you were to bring all those witnesses, all those
kids who were now adults, and put them on the stand, I mean,
as far as I'm concerned, that that would constitute Okay, this is
evidence that there's an extra structural presence here. Because there's no way all these
kids could have contrived this insane uh conspiracy and maintained it for all thirty years.
Basically, it's just that's that's absurd, that it would be impossible for
that to happen. But now all of a sudden, we have this one
dude coming forward Dale and Bicho saying, yeah, it's uh. I made
it up. I pointed to a rock and all these kids fell for it
somehow, And yeah, it's I'm lying, you know, I lie to
now I'm telling the truth. I mean, come on, right, right,
So just for the people that are watching, I'm sure you know I
haven't even looked in the chat room yet. Follow everyone there and chat thanks
for joining us. But the news room set up you have in the back
there? Where where are your some some of your clock's supposed to be located?
Oh, I mean this is the first time I set we set this
up. One of them's Castle Blanca, one of them's Moscow, one of
them's Tokyo, one of them Centralia. I don't know if you every Centralia
is near here? You ever hear the Centralia mindfire? It's basically a town.
There's it's it's not it's very close to where I live. There's a
underground mind fire burning basically there. Nobody lives anymore. I know. That's
something else. And then the last one's Roswell, So of course, yeah,
so well we're going to change the names, changed the locations every now
and then. I just haven't gotten around to doing that yet, but I'm
going to start doing that as time goes on. Well, nice Jacquelin as
well. So yeah, now you had a sighting yourself. What's is that?
What sparked your interested in the beginning? Well, actually I had two
different things that happened. There was in nineteen seventy seven and then in nineteen
ninety four. In nineteen seventy seven, I was I guess eight almost nine
years old around that at that age. It was in the late summer of
nineteen seventy seven, and I wake up in the middle. I used to
sleep in an attic in a very small house. I grew up in a
small house with I had two brothers and two sisters, and my mom and
dad of course, and I and me and my brother Davey slept up in
the attic and he slept on one side of the room, and I slept
on the other side, and in the in between it was like a stair
at one of those open staircases. And I wake up in the middle of
night when I don't know. Something woke me up, and I sometimes I
would sleep at the blanket over my head. I had this thin blue blanket
and I could see through the blanket. I could see the shadow of this
hand looked like like a three fingered and only had three digits on the hand,
and they were thick at the bottom and came to almost points and it
Meanwhile, there was this electronic humming sound like the like that I could hear,
and I was wondering, what the hell's going on? And I could
see this shadow of this hand getting closer to where my head was, and
then further away just kept on going like this right, and I'm like,
who's there, what's going on? You know, nobody's answering. I just
I hear this electronic humming sound, and then I was afraid to pull the
blanket down. I was thinking it was the devil or a demon or something.
At the time, I was an altered boy at the Catholic church that
was right next to my house, right across the street. And that's what
that's the extent of my imagination at the time. I couldn't figure out what
was happening here, and I was I peeked out of the blanket in the
direction of where my brother was. My brother, Davy was on the other
side of the room, and I could see he was facing toward me,
and he was sound asleep. And I started yelling to him to wake up
right there. You know, I was scared. And meanwhile, that electronic
coming sound was muffling my voice somewhat and so and then I got really terrified,
and I started screaming at the top of my lungs for my mom and
dad and nobody's coming. This must have been I don't know what time it
was. I have no idea. One o'clock in the morning, two o'clock,
I have no clue. But I'm screaming at the top of my lungs.
And meanwhile, there's something I could see that still, I could see
the shadow I could see through the blanket. It was a very thin blanket.
I could see this hand. It was not human, and it was
moving up and down above my face. And I start saying my prayers and
then things still there. I would close my eyes and wake it up,
wake up, or open my eyes again, and they would still be there,
and I steal them from my mom and dad every now and then they're
still not coming and there's that electronic coming sound, and then next thing I
know, somehow it lasts. The whole instant event lasted for like twenty minutes,
and somehow I just caught unked out and I don't know what happened.
And I woke up in the morning the next day. It was in the
summertime. It was like nine o'clock in the morning, and I'm the first
thing I'm thinking, is what, you know, what the hell was that?
You know, I'm looking around the room. Nothing's there. I go
running downstairs and I was trying to tell my mom what happened. She's telling
me it was just a dream. I must have been trying to convince her
for like two hours or something, and then I realized at some point final
I was like, nobody's gonna believe me. There was something in the room
last night, and nobody's ever gonna believe me. I'm just a kid,
and nobody's gonna believe me. I mean, I'm sure now even if I
told the story now as an adult, nobody wouldn't believe me either. But
but then my dad gets home from work later, I tell him. He
tells me it's just a dream. And it got to the point where no,
I just had to move on with wife and just forget about it.
I didn't know what it was I thought it was. I didn't know.
I didn't know that aliens came in the rooms or I didn't even think of
that at the time. It was like years later, in the late eighties.
That was seventy seven, so it had to be in the late eighties.
Sometime I was watching some documentary and alien abductions was discussed or talked about,
and that's when a bell rang in my head. I was again,
that's what that thing was. That's what was going on. Explains that electronic
humming sound, and the I passed somehow I got I mean, I was
terrified, but somehow, you know, I'm just I get I knocked out
somehow. I don't know how that could be possible. I know it wasn't
a dream. I know I was wide awake. It wasn't sleep paralysis because
I was able to move around. It was you know, it wasn't anything
like that, and then, you know, so I became interested then in
the late eighties, early nineties, and but then in nineteen ninety four I
had another incident where and this was different because this time there was a witness
there and one of my friends, a good friend of mine, Scott,
had contacted me and he said he wanted to go wanted to know if I
went to go fishing with him. It was a weekday, afternoon. It
was like I was in my early the mid twenties, I guess nineteen nine,
yeah, mid twenties, and he wanted to go fishing at this uh,
it was a lake in Pennsylvania called it was a private community called Beach
Mountain Lakes, and there was a lake there. But he didn't want to
go fishing at the lake. He wanted to go to this pond off the
lake. And his mom knew someone there and she got permission to let him
go in here and go fishing. I was like, yeah, we're gonna
go night fishing, you know. So he picked me up. We went
there was you know, in the evening, like five six o'clock or something.
When we got to this place and we went to this pond, there
was nobody else around. It was just us and were fishing, like just
standing on the shore this pond, fishing all night. I remember, we
weren't catching anything that was not even a nibble for hours. Right, So
it gets dark out and it's like ten o'clock at night, and I turned
around to get something out of the tackle box and I'm looking behind behind me,
behind the like you know, the ponds here, and then behind me
is like an open field with some tall grass, and then on the perimeter
there was like a forest. And when I turned around, I saw these
three giant bright lights behind the trees, moving behind the trees, and they
moved into this little clearing, and I saw there was this odd, big
object like hovering little somewhat lower than the trees, and it must have it
was his big as a house, and it's just with tree lights lined up
horizontally. And I yelled to my friend, Scott, the Scott, what
the hell is that? And he turned around and I'll never forget the way
he said. He goes, I don't know, like the no part was
elevated because he's starting to realize, wow, and this thing is moving right
toward us, right, And it came within I mean, it's moving like
this and there's no sound. Right, it must have been only two and
a half stories off the ground. And it stopped in midair right in front
of me, about within twenty feet. And my buddy Scott was standing under
the just under the edge of it, and he grabbed the flashlight and he
shined it, shined it on the bottom of this thing. And that's when
I got scared. I was thinking, this thing's gonna land right here in
front of right here, in front of me. Right. I was like,
let's get the hell out of here. Right. We start, as
we start throwing the stuff, the fishing stuff, into the back of his
pickup truck, the thing just started moving in a different It came around like
this, and they started moving off in a different direction than over the trees.
So we threw all the stuff in his pickup truck, and as we're
driving down this dirt road to get out of there, we could and still
see it. He actually told me later say, I didn't see I only
saw the front of it because I saw the three lights he was under it.
He said it was circular, and uh and and and he also noted
I noticed that it was extremely close to the tree tops, and he noticed
that actually some of the tree tops were bending down as it went back over
them. And so we're going down this dirt road and we had to stop
because there was at least twenty deer that start running from the direction that that
thing just flew. We had to stop and look at these all these deer
running across the dirt road. They must have been spooked by this object,
right, And we finally got out of there, and I remember this was
near Hazelton, Pennsylvania, and we drove into Hazelton then, uh, and
we weren't even talking. We were both in shock. And we got and
we went to it like a dunkin Donuts there, and I remember when we
got coffees and we're sitting down and I finally said to him, I was
like, Scott, that was a UFO. And he's there, I'm not
saying anything. I'm not telling anybody. That was his first reaction, you
know, the stigma. But I know what it was. It was unbelievable,
and you know, but it was real. It was right there and
I had absolutely no sound it was. It was as big as a house.
And so there's just no way that this thing could have been made by
human beings. There's something here. Well, that's one I gotta say.
That's one heck of a sighting. I mean that, that's that's one for
the books right there. Really, And you know I'm gonna ask you.
You probably know I'm going to ask you next. Is there any chance there
was any missing time at all? You know, that's interesting that you say
that, because I'm at this time in nineteen ninety four, I was already
interested in this, and uh uh so I knew about missing time by this
point, and I actually had seen I knew a time. It was not
long before that happened, because I remember checking my watch and I remember by
that later on, when we were at that dunkin Donuts at some point,
I remember checking my time, and I remember taking a mental note that,
no, I don't think there doesn't look like there's any loss time, so
it didn't seem that way. Yeah I did think that that night. Actually,
Yeah, yeah, well that's that's one heck of a sighting. And
uh, you know, for myself, my sighting was nowhere near as spectacular.
It was far far away and all that, you know, comparatively,
But the thing that freaked me out the most is that there was no sound.
And you know, now, let me ask you this. This is
a I think a relevant question because this does happen as well. Did you
notice absence of sound? Uh? You know, I could have sworn I
still heard, might have heard crickets, but I don't remember. I was
so I don't know. And like somebody also asked me one time to just
smell anything. I don't remember smelling anything different. I don't remember. It
was just it was just silent, you know, the idea that there was
something that big and flying. I just remember thinking to myself, this is
unbelievable. There's no sound. I mean, if it would have been a
helicopter, of course, that close, I mean it would have been would
would have been blown all over the place. You know, there was nothing
like that, No wind, no sound, nothing. Yeah, I don't
know. There could have been crickets. I think there might have been.
I'm not sure. I don't remember. Martin. Yeah, yeah, Well
did you report it? No? I did not, No, I did
not. I wish I would have. I actually had written the date down
that next that I think the next morning I actually wrote the date down and
the time and everything that I know the time, but the exact date I
don't know now because after many times of moving, that piece of paper got
misplaced somewhere and unfortunate and you know how that goes with things as time goes
on. But well, thank you, look at nice, nice little lot.
Thank you for that, Martin and Jim. The beginning of a beautiful
Friendship's pretty funny. So yeah, a lot of people that I have actually
told about your show really do like it because of the depth that you go
into, and you know, you say it the way it is. You're
not afraid just say things the way they are or the way they appear to
be. And oh wait, before we go on to other things, a
question here. How close was the craft when you heard your buddy yell?
And he was right? Was he white? At that point? I was
the one who said I told him, Like when I turned around to get
something out of the tackle box and I said, Scott, my friend,
Scott was just I don't know, maybe he wasn't that far away from me,
maybe several yards. I mean, he was fishing in a different spot
on the lake. And when I turned around and I saw the craft,
that's I yelled to him and he looked up and he saw it then,
But I don't know. It wasn't that far like I was at. You
know, it was a small pot. It wasn't that big of a pond
that we were fishing. He remember he had said that he had caught fish
there before, but that night it was a real hot, warm night night.
I remember we weren't catching anything. But he was probably about I don't
know, five six seven yards away from me, maybe at the most.
And then when he came when he came over, when he saw the craft,
he started walking toward it a little bit, and when and while it
was still moving, and then it stopped and he was standing he that's when
he grabbed the flashlight and shined it at the bottom of it, at the
belly of it. I'll never forget that, like the beam of light from
his flashlight going up to the bottom of the craft. But I couldn't really
see the bottom of it because there was the lights on the front of this
craft. I just want to point out too. They were like this big.
Each one. Each light was like this. It was like giant headlights.
It looked like that, but it was three of them lined up horizontally.
There was like a space in between. You could tell it was a
craft. You could tell it was one piece, like I could see some
blackness there and stuff. You could. But I never got the seed the
shape of it. But my friend Scott it was underneath shining the flashlight on
the bottom, he saw that it was circular. That's what he said later
on. I think that might be the last thing that I would do if
I was underneath. You know, well it was, you know, you're
the whole funny thing is I would have totally forgot. I mean, I
went fishing so many times throughout my life back then, and it was so
uneventful. I I now, nothing happened, there was no no bites,
and then I would have forgot about this, right, But because of what
happened, I'll never forget it. I mean, this giant craft shows up
and were the lights just like regular white lights. No color, it was
just yeah, they were like white lights. That's what they look like,
like whitish. But it looks strange, the whole thing looks it looked.
I can't even it's hard to describe it was. It was so it was
solid, I mean, it was a solid light and the way it moved
and the smoothness of it, the silence, and it was just it was
incredible to see this. It was just I mean, it was stunning,
Like you're fishing, nothing's going on. All of a sudden, there's this
giant thing hovering right neck right in front of me, Like I was like,
I was within twenty feet of it. That's that's it was. And
that's when it stopped for a few seconds and then start moving in a different
direction. It came like it moved like it moved like in a triangular the
way it came in and then came to us like in a triangle, and
then moved away in a different direction. But it like it formed a triangle
the way it flew. Did the thought of running ever occur to you?
It actually the thought of, yeah, the thought of getting out of there.
When he shined the flashlight on and I had this image in my head.
I knew of the Pascagoula incident for incident for instance, at that time,
I was thinking that thing's gonna land right here and we're gonna get dragged
into this craft and who god knows what's going to happen. That's what start
going through my head. I don't want this to happen. And that's when
I said, let's get out of here. And he he didn't even question.
He just started throwing everything in the truck. He knew he realized too.
I think at that moment, you know, you know, we don't
want this. You weren't catching any fish anyway. Yeah. Here, here's
the the question we often want to know. Uh, you know, who
are they? What do they want? Why are they here? You know?
I mean, that's that's the question, you know. I mean,
if we had if we had a list of questions, that would definitely be
on them. You know, what's the meaning of life? Uh? You
know, what's how is the universe work? You know, whatever we'd ask,
those are definitely them all unanswered. We have no idea why, why
whatever it is is here. So your area, Pennsylvania has has a lot
of amazing events that happened quite often. And you know you recently went to
the Kesburg and that's that's a little slightly controversial as well. That could have
been a satellite. People are talking it could have been a military satellite and
it could have moved, because that's what those things actually did. They had
ways to shift in the sky. That's what always made Kexburg very, you
know, like really interesting, was the way it moved. And then come
to find out we had these type of satellites that when they're reorbiting or whatever
with the film case and then I don't know if you heard about that whole
situation or not, but they had the film cases and they would actually come
to the ground and be retrieved and all that. So, you know,
Kesburg as if either's but it's one of these things that it's just perpetuated and
I don't really maybe, just like Roswell, we may never know. What
do you think about it? In general? I think it could have been
extraterrestrial. I really don't know. Now. The thing the thing about Ketsburg
and that whole area there at stant we were talking about Stan Gordon earlier before
the show. He's interviewed so many different people. There's a lot of weird
stuff. I don't that that's on the western side of Pennsylvania Kesburg near Pittsburgh.
I'm on more of the eastern side, closer to Philadelphia, and there's
a in that little region that Stand lives in and where Kesburg is. There's
just so much weird things, so many weird things that happened there. There's
a big it's not just UFOs. There's a lot of UFOs, a lot
of extraterrestrial encounters, a lot of bigfoots encounters. There's so much weird stuff
out there that stand for some reason. It seems like areas, like certain
areas of this world, it seems like it's more prevalent than in others.
And that seems like one of them out there for some reason. And I
don't know if Ketsburg that if what crash there was extraterrestrial, But then if
it wasn't, I mean, why why are we still being light to about
it all these years? I mean, if it was just some satellite or
something like that, why not just tell the truth after all this time.
That doesn't make any sense to me. I think the only reason not to
tell the truth is because they don't. I think there's most certainly some sort
of a control group out there that's in charge of keeping this secret. And
maybe that's why we don't know anything about Kexberg, is because it is extraterrestrial
and they don't want to. They don't want to anyone to know about the
reality of the extraterrestrial presence. Yeah, I feel like we're being gaslighted with
all of this stuff. Like I mean, well, let's let's get into
it. I want to know how exactly. Yeah, I mean there's a
lot of people with this same kind of thoughts. So how do you think
that's all working. You think this whole thing is like the type of situation
of a lot of disinformation thrown at us. Yeah, it's it's it's so.
I mean, I mean just recently, when we're just talking about that
that that guy at aerial school, that's I think that's disinformation of some form.
But I mean when it comes to the government, I mean, I
mean, instead of playing all these games with the hearing and all of that
stuff, why not just there's this control group. Obviously, there's been things
that have happened for many decades now, Like people like researchers like Richard Dolan
in his books, he's talked about all these things, written about all these
things. Uh uh, you see all the stuff that's been going on since
since this all started. Uh. Donald Kehoe talked about it a lot and
some of his books back in the fifties and sixties. There's most certainly a
cover up, but it's a secret group, and why not. It's why
not just jump from to the end of this Why play this game with having
hearings and whistle blowers and all that stuff, because why do it? Why
why not just somebody come out already and just tell us the truth rather than
playing these stupid games. I feel like we're just being gaslight at all still.
I mean, even with the hearings, and even though it's a step
forward, I guess I look at it like that, but at the same
time, it's like, we shouldn't have to be playing this game. Let's
just get it over with and just tell the truth. Already. A lot
of us out there. Note I know that something's there. I've had in
my own experiences. I've done enough research to know this for a fact.
And I'm just tired of it. It's very frustrating from from my point of
view, and I think a lot of people are feeling the same way.
And I'm just tired of I hear these debunkers, the stupid stuff they say.
I'm so I'm just done with all of it. That the Mick West
of the world, and who's so many different that Stephen Oh God, yeah,
yeah, yeah, terrible so it's it's really uh, you know,
there was a you know, I got to hang out a lot with Nick
Pope this this weekend. You know, some people say he's some controversy,
the area was only a file clerk or whatever whatever they say. But still
he's uh, he's really articulate, really looks deeply into this topic, and
he makes He made a point this weekend at his talk that I often say
similar things and to kind of go along with what you're saying. The possible
reason for cover ups and that is I think it and Nick said the same
thing that I think it's very possible that they don't know exactly what it is.
For sure, they know possibly more than we do. I do believe
they know more than we do. And but what I think is that they
don't have the whole picture. And because they don't have the whole picture,
then they realize that they can't protect us from whatever it could be. So
that's the reason I think that for us to actually get like a full disclosure
of the government saying hey, look we've known for a long time this is
happening, and unfortunately we don't know exactly what it is. For them to
say something like that you know, they're not going to say it. I
don't think so. I think that is a reason for a part of why
we don't, you know, we don't get a lot of movement for w
Yeah, I think there's like I think I think that's definitely one of the
reasons, right. I think the reason that they've the fact that they've been
lying so long, it's gonna look bad when they finally do tell the truth.
I mean, people already have a distrust of government, so then when
the truth finally does come out, it's gonna be saying you've been you see,
they've been lying the whole time, you know, so they're gonna There's
there's that element of it. There's the reverse engineering aspects to it, which
I'm sure is going on. I'm sure that they have recovered craft based on
all the research stuff things done research by Leonard, the late Leonard Stringfield.
I mean, there's most certainly a reverse engineering program going on, and just
as reported by people like David Grush, and there's other whistleblowers who we don't
really know much about yet but they've been talking to behind the scenes. So
you have that and the fact that they don't like you said, they don't.
They don't know, how could they How could anybody possibly know? I
don't think we'll ever know. We don't even know how many could possibly be
coming here? And what are the motives of all them? The motives of
one group might be totally different than the motives of someone of the others.
We don't even know if all of these others, Like how many are coming
here? And do all of them that are coming here know that there's other
ones coming here? There's so many different questions, and how are they going
to answer that? How are they going to answer Stuff like that is put
out there, like by people like David Jacobs, who puts books out like
The Threat and Walking among Us, who he suggests after you know, all
these people who have been abducted, and there's a hybridization program from all his
research, that's what he's come up with. I mean, how is the
government going to ever try to explain that, Well, yeah, there's these
beings that they're you know, they're coming in, they're abducted people. There's
a hybridization program. They're putting beings among us that look like us, but
they're not us. But that's all been nothing to worry about you can go
home. They can't talk about How are they going to talk about that?
I mean, it's so complex, there are so many issues with it.
But at the same time, by not talking about it, you the scientific
community for the most part, is locked out. Nobody really wants to go
near it. Some people are more so now today than before. But still
you got to get the scientific community, the entire scientific community involved, no
matter how scary or whatever, it doesn't matter. That's the biggest reason why
we need to end this cover up because of that, right right. I
just was reminded of when I did my talk this week end up in Shag
Harbor. Of when I was going through the talk, I bring up in
my PowerPoint presentation the fact that in the nineteen nineties I had a insurance broker
in my house who said that he was part of the US Air Force that
was investigating UFOs and Vietnam during Vietnam, when napalm was happening and things like
that, they'd show up and stuff like that. So anyway, my question
to him, you know, before he left that night, was the question,
everybody wants to know what do they want? And and I said,
well, what does the government think they want, do you know that much?
And he says, they think that we're a petri dish. I'll never
forget that, you know. And that was long before I ever thought about
doing a show of any kind on this or even have much of a big
interest in it. So I think that's still a possibility. You know,
you're saying, you know, all these different groups are coming here. Maybe
we're a pet drish for a lot of places you know that is coming in.
Who knows, you know, it's it's all, it's all fascinating.
I mean, the prevalent ones seem to be the you know, you hear
a lot of the stories or the encounters that many people have had seemed to
be between the short grays, tall grays, reptilian type beings and these praying
Manti praying mathis ones, and it seems like they have some sort of a
program. But then they hear other story, and that seems the prevalent.
That seems like the most things that you hear of. In fact, I
think when you look at the Turkey UFO videos, for instance, that's what
you're seeing. I think you're seeing those beings. That's what I think you're
seeing in there. That's my opinion. Doesn't make me right, but I
believe that that's what we're seeing. But then you have other cases like,
for instance, like the Pascagoula case, those those things, I've never heard
those descriptions before, or the or just we're just talking about Steven Spield's new
documentary series, the broad Haven Incident. The beings that people were seeing there
these seven foot tall creatures. That's different than a lot of other reports seven
foot tall faceless things. I mean, it's always differently everywhere. Yeah,
yeah, here's another question here, and uh, do you think it's possible
that the ets are forcing the government to cover it up? That's an interesting
angle, as fantastic as that sounds. Yes, it's very possible. I
mean, if these beings have the ability to basically make people forget experiences abductions,
that that that that doesn't that would not exclude anybody in the government.
They're human beings too, If you know, it could be that these UFO
crashes, like the Roswell crash and the Aztec UFO crash and the crashes that
occur after that all these years, maybe they weren't really crashes, Maybe they
were set ups. Maybe they wanted to get to the heart of the control
of this world of the country here, like for instance. So really it's
not that it's it was a plan crash and then these the people at the
top of this governmental chain, the aliens knew this in advance. They take
that stuff in and then somehow they figure out how we tick and that's how
they Maybe that's the reason for crashes too. I don't know, it's just
all of it is speculation, But yes, I think it could be possible.
If they could do the things that they do to certain people, like
in an abduction accounts, then why wouldn't they be able to do it to
our officials in the government. For all we know, it is possible that
some extraterrestrial beings have infiltrated the governments in the most secretive levels and are pulling
the strings behind the scenes. And that's why there's still that's why there's a
coverup. That's possible. I don't know, but that's These are the kind
of ideas that go through your head because of the cover up. It all
all you could do is speculate, So that makes that a possibility. Yeah,
that's right. That's all we can do is speculate and by the way,
they probably do a better job at running the government. Probably. Yeah,
we need the truth no matter what it is, says Bill. And
you're right, Bill, we do. Whether we'll see it or not remains
to be seen. You know, we can only just do what we can
do on our side of the street, which is, you know, keeping
things straight. There's a lot of you know people that I mean, we're
in such a hard time right now. I had this discussion with a few
people this last weekend, where what are we going to be able to believe
from now on? When it comes to videos, pictures, the new AI
pictures out there, you can say, basically, give me a big foot
in nineteen twenty nine with some lumberjacks, and now you have this beautiful sepiatone
image of it looks just like a big foot or an ape, you know,
like twenty feet tall with lumberjacks, and everything looks as pure as can
be. Even Uri Geller was full. He was posting things out there because
he thought it was real. And then you know videos, the deep fakes,
and they're they're going to get you know, we're lost right now as
far as anyone getting something really good on film. I think it would really
be hard to prove something. They would have to be time stamped on a
phone, et cetera, et cetera to be able to be believed. It's
gonna get worse. Like you said, I think it's You're absolutely correct,
it's going to get even worse as time goes on. I mean only the
real images that you could trust. There a lot of the older images when
there really were no ways to trick these things, Like I believe, for
instance, like the mc minville photo was not tricked. I believe that those
people, the Trents, actually saw that and they took a picture of and
that's exactly what you're seeing is what they saw in that picture. Like I
think that the Rex Hefflin pictures from nineteen sixty five where he saw that flying
saucer, he took a couple of different three I think pictures, four pictures.
There are polaroids. Yeah, they're in a safe in California. I
talked to boy, can't remember the daughter of that famous stupologists. Uh just
can't remember. Begins with an a. I just can't remember her last name,
but anyway, Yeah, they're in her safe. When our mother passed
away. She's she's guarding them, you know, as as we go through
it, and I think they'll get into you know, David Marls is doing
this wonderful job with archives in New Mexico, and I think, you know,
he'll they'll be safe in a place like that. But yeah, good
to preserve it. Here's an interesting point right here. Isn't it just possible
that ets are allowing, not forcing the government to cover to continue the government.
Well, obviously I guess they are because they could certainly. You know,
it's kind of silly when you say the White House lawn, but it's
uh, you know, when I've talked to people, what you know,
how do you think a disclosure could come about? Usually it's like a mass
undeniable sighting with you know, direct contact, you know, type of thing.
That's that's if the government doesn't come out and say it's going to take
something like that. But I don't know if you caught this, but Ross
Coulthart from Australia is now saying that he believes I'm not sure where he's coming
up with this, but he believes within twelve to eighteen months that we are
going to know exactly that we're not alone, and that we're going to know.
You know this information. I've heard these kind of claims made before and
until it happens, you know, I hope Ross is right. I mean
he has, he has more contacts than I have. I mean, I'm
just basically what I'm doing. I'm just basically looking at the whole thing and
giving my commentary. I do talk to some people sometimes, but for the
most part, I'm just giving my view of it. But Ross obviously is
someone who has his fingers on the pulse of this whole thing a lot better
than I got. Right now, He's talking to people and maybe he knows
something that we don't. But I don't know. I've been hearing this stuff
before. Yeah, it's gonna be this year, you know earlier last year's
twenty twenty three is a year I don't know. I mean, we're getting
somewhere, we're moving forward. But again, it's to me, it's all
a big gas lighting effort because we're still playing these dumb games. David Grush
comes out and then you basically people are slammed dunking him. H Ever,
since you got a lot of people who don't uh, yeah, you know
what I mean. They don't. They just don't. They're not going there.
They just they can't accept it. So they make fun of him,
and they make a fool out of him, and so we're we're still not
getting anywhere. It doesn't matter what he says. He doesn't have the evidence,
So we're still stuck in the wheels are spinning in the mud right now.
That's the problem. Yeah, yeah, And I you know, people
have said something along the lines of, uh, well, you know,
Grushes is just you know, full of you know what whatever. And I
was actually at the hearings. I don't know if I told you that I
made it inside the hearing room, but it to me, why would he
why would he bother, you know, why would he bother putting his whole
career, his whole life on the line and lie about it. You know?
Is it possible that it's disinformation that would have to be really orchestrated,
very very well to have done that type of thing. I think it's a
for real type of situation. And I'm interested, and you know, they're
supposed to be. I think I hear twelve more so whistleblowers that Yeah,
there's a lot more more than that, actually, But the whole thing is
is that he's come forward and the and the Senate, you know, which
that that recent legislation from Chuck Schumer. When you see that kind of stuff,
they the people in Congress know more than than I mean, they wouldn't
be doing these things unless they are pretty confident there's something going on. There's
a tug of war going on right now between two different factions within the government,
one that wants to keep it a secret for whatever reason, the other
one that wants that believes is time to get it out there. That's what
it feels like to me, right right. So we're going to just let
the listening audience know we're going on for fifty five minutes total. Today.
I feel like Jim, I feel like saying, you know, I already
want to have you come back again. Hey, I'll come back a lot
of fun. Yeah. Yeah. So I have the lines open if anyone
wants to call in. That number is eight five five four seven two five
four eight three. Chanel is standing by and just make sure you have a
good clear signal when you call in. And this is for either one of
us, and we're ready to go. If you'd like to call in,
we only have around ten minutes or so for phone, so if you want
to call in, please do so. Now, so what is some of
your favorite cases? We both think that at the Aerial School incident is way
up there. I call it my number one myself. But what do you
think some other really fascinating and undeniable cases are. Well, I think you
have to say that the Pascagoula that's undeniable. Those guys weren't lying. I
mean you had the conversation that was secretly recorded in the Sheriff's department at the
later on. I mean, there's just too many elements those guys. Why
would they make it up? And unfortunately, Calvin Parker just recently passed away.
They're both now gone, but he lived his whole life. It ruined
his life. I mean a lot of people you hear the when you hear
the human stories like you watched, for just for instance, the broad Haven
incident, the broad Haven triangle that was just talked about on that documentary from
Steven Spielberg, that those people aren't lying. You see all these witnesses.
I mean, I think that's a great case, that's fantastic. Well,
how could all these people be lying? There there they all. There's witnesses,
multiple witnesses. That's a great there's multiple great cases. Uh there're one,
uh another great one. I think the Travis Walton one is a great
case. I know he gets slammed a lot, but you had six other
witnesses. They all passed lie detector tests. How could you know he's been
in the same story all these years. That's a fantastic case. The Randall
shim Forest is an interesting That's one of the most fascinating cases. I think.
I mean, you can't. How can you deny it? They have
You have so many people, so many witnesses. It's real and I know
it's real too. That's the other thing is when I hear these people talking
like they don't believe it. Debunkers well, but but to me, the
testimony from multiple people, especially multiple witnesses at this you know, at a
certain event, how could you deny it? I mean, I feel like
I know I'm right. I know they're wrong because I had my own experiences,
so in my head I know that these people are they're just not getting
it. But for some reason, we're scared. They're scared. There's the
people I think are scared but like some of the cases, like we're talking
about the the Pascagoula incident, I have I love that case. I think
that's that's an undeniable one to me. I believe those two guys wholeheartedly.
And you haven't looked into the alec Ash incident. That's another. Oh my
god, Yeah, I read that book, the aleg Ash Yeah, the
Allagash four. I mean, there's no question how we have our buddy online
one Phil from Michigan. Let's see, we gotta get I'm gonna get disappere
Hey, I wanted to thank you for your show, Jim. I stumbled
across you about two months ago and I heard you talk about the Three Stooges
of UFOs and I just loved it. I love it when you tell the
truth. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of people like I think the
debunkers. I think some of these guys, the three Stooges that we were
talking about there, it feels like we're being gaslighted by certain people, and
you got to call it out as it is. I mean, it doesn't
make any sense to me. I don't understand how anybody could trust the Pentagon
with you know, you hear a lot of Loue Alasando getting a lot of
flat you know, from the debunkers out there, the Three Stooges that I
was talking about that time. But at the same time, how can you
trust what the Pentagon's telling you? You can't. They've been lying about this
for almost eighty years now. You can't trust when it talks. When it
comes to UFOs, you can never ever trust the Pentagon. Maybe someday we
can, but not at this moment, because I know there's still lying,
you know, And that's why I call these people, the Three Stooges,
some of them, you know, Yes you do, and I'm glad you
do. Hey, Phil, do you do you have any And thanks Phil
for the call. And I'm just taking down the phone number because we have
another caller on the line. But Phil, do you have a specific question
at all that you'd like to ask Jim or myself? It doesn't matter,
no, I just I just mainly wanted to say I'm glad that he calls
out by name. The people are supposedly ufiologists that do nothing but stir the
muck like Greenwall Junior is my favorite. One day. Hey, yeah,
you know, I'll tell you something, Phil. I mean, I haven't
really started complaining about John and told us recently. I actually appreciate the fact
that he does these Freedom of Information Act requests. But at the same time,
I don't understand why he's siding with a creep like green Street from the
New York Post. I don't understand that to me, Why would you ever
align yourself with some kind of a clown like Stephen green Street. That guy's
a goofball. I mean, so that's what bothers me about John Greenwall.
He needs to get away from that people like him and Mick West. I
think Mick West is another one. You know, they're driving. I didn't
want to, you know, I'll go off on a everybody. It upsets
me. I feel like I'm like, yeah, yeah, so Phil,
thanks a lot. That's great. We're gonna bring on our next caller talk
soon. All right, we have Christopher from Illinois. Christopher, welcome to
the show. Yeah, I'm sorry to be here. Yeah, you may
want to speak up just a little bit. Yes, My question for you
guys are looking at where we're at now with UF biology. Where do you
see us a couple of years from now, especially after this invasion if they
say that's coming, this what coming? I'm sorry, So, where do
you see UFO community and everybody a couple of years from now after we have
this opposed the UFO invasion if they say it's coming, I'm not I'm not
sure of the UFO invasion. I'm not really sure I've understand that or heard
anything about that. I'm not sure where you got your source of information on
that. But but we can go ahead, we can move forward with a
where do you think the UFO you know topic will be within a couple of
years, right, Yeah, I think ye, I think uh, I
think you know, we might we might get somewhere. I mean, I
think it's possible now that we there is some action. I mean, I
think we're gonna need somebody from the inside to bring some of the evidence with
them to the outside somehow. I mean, someone like a David Grush,
except a little bit more so that comes with the with the with the receipts
and says, yeah, see I told you here, somehow get an extraterrestrial
body out there, some sort of evidence, some some piece of extraterrestrial craft.
That's possible if you have all these whistleblowers stepping forward. Maybe somebody's going
to bring uh sneak some of this stuff out perhaps, uh, because that's
I don't know, that might be the only thing that might that could have
that that that might be the only thing that that could happen for this to
happen. We just don't know. We don't know the level of uh of
uh protection that these that this cover that this group has that is maintaining this
teak that these contractors have, for instance, how we don't know how difficult
it would be to extract some of the evidence that I'm certain that they have.
Somebody from the inside would have to bring it forward to us, I
think, and that might happen because of the stuff that is happening right now
in Congress right right. So I can't believe how the time has flown,
you know. Uh. Sometimes I can do the show a little bit longer.
I'm a little bit under the weather, so otherwise I would try in
the same was with last week as well. So but it's been really great,
and I just have to say that it was really a pleasure. And
I do believe that you could probably come back every other week if you'd like,
Hey, why not. It's a lot of fun. I have a
lot of fun. We could talk all night here actually if yeah, we
had the time. But it was great and then and there there will be
a time where they'll be much longer than that. But thank you so much,
Thank you Martin, thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.
All right, you take care you too. All Right, everyone,
I'll be back with Dan from Fifth Pillar of Emphasis next week. I met
him at the hearing down in in Washington. And thank you all for hanging
in and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.