WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:10.599 Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO 2 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:16.399 news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomena. Here's your 3 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:25.519 host, Alejandro Roja. Hello everybody, it's Alejandro. Thank you, mister 4 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:30.960 Dean. I love to hear mister Roberteen introduce us. Every week we have 5 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:35.280 another great show. You know, one thing, it's been fun lately, 6 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:39.600 I guess it's always fun. And it's something that struck me when I got 7 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:45.079 into UFO research. All of the really cool people that you get to meet. 8 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:48.039 I think, you know, in this crowd, you know, there's 9 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:54.200 some people that maybe you feel uncomfortable to be around, to put it nicely, 10 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:58.520 when you go to these groups and stuff like that. But then there's 11 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:03.960 also some really cool like people, I mean, just open minded, extremely 12 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:07.599 intelligent people. And our guest is one of these. It's Mac Maloney. 13 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:14.400 He wrote the book UFOs and Wartime, and he is just a really great 14 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:19.319 guy. He does. He's an author, and he writes books that are 15 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.000 kind of like Tom Clancy and that's kind of how he puts it there, 16 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:26.040 the military fiction thrillers. I used to read a lot of Tom Kennincy when 17 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:30.560 I was younger, actually, and so those are the kind of books that 18 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:34.920 he writes. But he decided, because he's always been into UFOs, to 19 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:40.000 write a UFO nonfiction book. And of course, since he's a military guy, 20 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:47.519 he focused on wartime, mostly focusing on like the last century, but 21 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.599 he has cases that go way back. So we're going to talk to him 22 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:55.239 a lot about UFOs, not just the food fighters in World War Two, 23 00:01:55.359 --> 00:02:00.000 but we're also talking Korea, Vietnam, Irac, Iraq. I was gonna 24 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:01.640 say, I ran and said, I said Iraq, and then it came 25 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:06.719 out kind of Minnesota, ire Am, but it is Iraq, actually, 26 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:09.120 I was trying to say, because he didn't get into later on in Iraq 27 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:13.159 and stuff. But we'll talk all about that. So it's a great show, 28 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:17.680 great interview, and I'm happy to have you all with us today. 29 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:23.000 Another thing I want to mention and you can't forget about is the UFO Congress 30 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:28.319 because that is coming up and it's gonna be another great time. We have 31 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:32.240 like what we have out of some of the bigger name like regular guys in 32 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:37.960 the field, but it's cool to have them all together. Colin Andrews We're 33 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:43.080 gonna have Stephen Greer, We'll have Whitley Strieber. I mean, all of 34 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:46.560 these guys in one place, so that's really cool. Also, some of 35 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:50.840 the newer people you know that have come on to the least lately been making 36 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:57.400 a big splash. We have Lee Spiegel who writes for the Huffington Post. 37 00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:00.879 He's been writing these great stories. We have Bryce Zabel who's been on the 38 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:04.719 show a few times. He's done a lot of movies and he can talk 39 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:08.919 about Hollywood and stuff like that. We have Ben Hansen from Factor Fate, 40 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.639 which is a lot of fun. He is a super cool guy. We 41 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:15.479 had him on the show and we've talked to him here and there. He's 42 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.439 become one of our buddies. So excited about that. Some old friends of 43 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:23.599 Von Smith this is a cool one. Robert Panoti who runs kind of the 44 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:28.240 mouf on of Italy out there, and he has actually worked with the government 45 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:31.680 and out there in Italy, so he's had a lot more inroads with the 46 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:36.639 government than we've been able to have out here in the United States. Isn't 47 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:42.240 that typical. Unfortunately, we're gonna have Travis Walton again, but he's gonna 48 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:46.000 be with John Goulay. And this is exciting because this is one of the 49 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.240 other witnesses who was in the truck who saw the UFO, who took off 50 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:53.280 because they were freaked out and came back. And he's a guy who has 51 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:55.879 not talked in public like this before, so it's going to be the first 52 00:03:55.879 --> 00:03:59.800 time you'll be able to see this witness. So you'll be able, you 53 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:01.240 know, if you're a skeptic of the case, you can see how these 54 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:06.120 guys match up and how their stories match up. We'll have Bruce mcabee of 55 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:12.240 course, famous scientist, UFO researcher Randall Nickerson, which is a lot of 56 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.120 fun. One of our first issues we had a story on this guy because 57 00:04:15.160 --> 00:04:23.480 he's doing a documentary on the famous Zimbabwe UFO case, where back when these 58 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:28.120 kids saw Ufo and an alien and there was a bunch of kids in Zimbabwe 59 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.959 and now they're older, so he's doing a documentary. They're like in their 60 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:36.199 twenties or something not too long ago. Rosemary Angie a paranormal specialist. This 61 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:41.879 guy Antonio NAIs, he's amazing. You've had heard him before. David Surta, 62 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:46.199 we're gonna have talking about twenty twelve. Jime Mussan is going to talk 63 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:48.959 about twenty twelve in Mexico cases. Everybody loves him. He wasn't there last 64 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:51.959 year. A lot of people missed him, so he'll be back. Peter 65 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:56.680 Robbins on abduction. I mean, just really cool stuff. So go to 66 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:01.040 UFO Congress dot com to register. You gotta make it to this conference. 67 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:03.959 I mean you probably heard from people who went last year. They had a 68 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:08.399 lot of fun. And the location, like I've told you over and over 69 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:13.000 again, is just beautiful. This place is awesome, So check that out. 70 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:16.839 So that's what's going on UFO Congress, so check it out. The 71 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:23.160 other thing that's going on every day on Openminds dot Tv is UFO News. 72 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:28.399 And the guy in the middle of the UFO news is this cool cat named 73 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:33.920 Jason McClellan. And guess what we have him here with us today. Jason, 74 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:39.480 would you like to tell the dudes about some UFO news. Yes, 75 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:44.120 Sir Green, Alejandro and the Hello everyone, this is your Open Minds UFO 76 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:48.120 News brief for Monday, December twelfth, twenty eleven. Put its recorded by 77 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:53.480 NASA's Stereo spacecraft on December first, shows Mercury being hit by a wave of 78 00:05:53.920 --> 00:06:00.360 electrical charge material emitted from the Sun known as a coronal mass ejection ORME. 79 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:02.519 And if you haven't seen the video, it's as cool as it sounds. 80 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:08.040 But what has people talking about the video is a strange object near Mercury that 81 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:12.759 is revealed by the CME blast. So believe the CME blast revealed a cloaked 82 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:17.279 UFO near the planet. But to get an official answer, MSNBC contacted scientists 83 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:21.600 in the Solar Physics Branch at the United States Naval Research Laboratory the NRL, 84 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:27.600 who are responsible for analyzing data from the telescope camera that shot the December first 85 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:31.399 footage. MSNBC reports that according to Russ Howard, head scientist of the NRL 86 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:36.439 group and Nathan Rich, lead ground systems engineer, quote, it is simply 87 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:44.680 an artifact leftover from the way raw H one telescope data gets processed. The 88 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:49.000 image processing is explained more in detail by MSNBC, and we have that detail 89 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:55.319 Onopenminds dot tv in the news story we have about this so you can read 90 00:06:55.360 --> 00:07:00.160 more about the details involved in him. But Nathan Rich basically split that quote. 91 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:05.519 When this averaging process is done between the previous day and the current day 92 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:14.079 there is a feature like a planet. This introduces dark negative artifacts in the 93 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:17.160 background where a planet was the previous day, which then shows up as bright 94 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:21.800 areas in the enhanced image. According to Gizmoto, this particular video shows a 95 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:26.639 twenty four hour period captured on December first, and consists of thirty six frames 96 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:31.120 in total. The strange object was also recorded by STEREO's twin satellite HI two. 97 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:36.959 NASA and other scientists have used ghost images and image glitches to explain mysterious 98 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:42.079 objects in space videos before, and that could certainly be the case with this 99 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:46.839 video. But there, you know, it's interesting. It's twenty four hours, 100 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:53.040 so the planet was probably there the previous day, as they stated, 101 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:56.720 So it captures two images. But this this other image it was captured when 102 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:59.439 this blast goes by. It seems to be smaller, seems to have a 103 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:03.319 sort of a defined shape, and some people and I kind of agree, 104 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:07.600 argue that it sort of looks like a klingon bird of prey. Oh from 105 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.079 Star Trek. Hmm, kind of cool, so they think it's a cloaked 106 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:16.360 klingon bird of prey. I couldn't make much out personally, so I don't 107 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:18.439 know, there's not a whole lot. You know, your mind going wild 108 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:22.040 and you start seeing what you want to see. Oh, I see it, 109 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.560 I see it. Yeah, I can see it because I read somebody 110 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:28.000 else say that they saw it. So but it doesn't look like a planet, 111 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.039 but it certainly could be. You know, it's just if it's what 112 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.519 they say it is. You know, it's just remnants of where a planet 113 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.840 was. So light remains from a planet. It's not probably going to hold 114 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:43.799 that fear shape. I can't help it. You're the one who brought up 115 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:50.600 the Klingons. Yes, I thought that Klingons were on your ainus. I 116 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:52.759 couldn't help it. Okay, I'll give you that. That was fun. 117 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:56.440 Well, I think that comes from the Simpsons. Actually, I think it 118 00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:00.919 does. But while we're on the topic of Hollywood, let's talk about an 119 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:07.240 article you wrote this Alejandro. Steven Spielberg recently revealed that his popular family friendly 120 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:13.000 alien film Et the Extraterrestrial was originally going to be an alien attack movie, 121 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:18.360 telling the alleged horrific experience of a family in rural Kentucky supposedly harassed by aliens. 122 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.120 Spielberg told Entertainment Weekly quote It was going to be called night Skies, 123 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:26.240 based on a piece of UFO mythology where a farm family reported little spindley gray 124 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:31.759 aliens attacking their farm, even writing cows in the farmyard. This farm family 125 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.200 basically huddled together for survival. It's the story that's well known in the world 126 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.639 of mythology, and we based our script on that story. Spielberg says that 127 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:41.960 the script was changed because he was able to talk Harrison Ford's girlfriend at the 128 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.320 time, Melissa Matheson, into rewriting the screenplay, and that resulted in the 129 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.840 development of the lovable character et we all know today the description of the not 130 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:56.000 so lovable creatures that allegedly attack the family in Kentucky resemble that of the mischievous 131 00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:01.080 little green man in the movie Gremlins, a movie also produced by Steven Spielberg. 132 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:03.120 It's all one hunter, tell us a little more about this case in 133 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:07.080 Kentucky. Yeah, I wish I would have known when I wrote the piece 134 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:11.360 on Spielberg for our magazine, because I didn't know this right, and I 135 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:16.399 should have thought of it, because when you take the pictures that the witnesses 136 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:20.840 had, or actually the air force drew from the witness accounts and you put 137 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:24.480 it next to a gremlin, they're exactly the same. And on Open Minds 138 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:30.840 at TV and also on ufodailynews dot com we posted it with the picture so 139 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.080 you can see that. And it's really the only time that I know that 140 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.320 I've seen another creature look like that. And you're right, it's just like 141 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:41.039 gremlin's with the crazy ears going on, the big ears, the little waist, 142 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:43.600 the tiny little waist, but the bigger shoulders and the long arms with 143 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:48.759 the claws. Yeah, so they look exactly alike. And I never put 144 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:52.159 the two together. And this was the case. It is a very famous 145 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:56.759 case amongst uphologists because Little Green Men. We've talked about this before because I 146 00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:01.080 wrote a story a few months ago. Little Green Men comes from this case 147 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.720 in Hopkinsville. But it's interesting, Yeah, that's Spilberg. Spilberg didn't write 148 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.360 this story for the Gremlins. It's something that he got from someone else apparently. 149 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:15.279 But obviously when they went to character design, he was heavily influenced by 150 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:18.720 that. And obviously, as he says, he was influenced by that on 151 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:22.440 et plus the story. You know, even if they have an author bring 152 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:24.799 him a story, they morph's the story and the story. You know, 153 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:30.840 these guys are mischievous little goofballs, which is exactly the Kentucky story. They 154 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:35.120 didn't hurt anybody, well, they were more dangerous in gremlins. They didn't 155 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:39.919 hurt anybody in the story in Kentucky in nineteen fifty five. But they ran 156 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.159 around and jumped around, and they were playing with these guys and being real 157 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:48.000 crazy, touching, you know, one guy's hair. So it's an interesting 158 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:52.960 story. It's fairly credible. It's one of the only, if not the 159 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:58.320 only Blue Book case that has actual aliens extraterrest grills in it, so it 160 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:05.879 was important historically. And here again it's evidence that Spilberg another demonstration of how 161 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:11.399 into this staff he really is. So pretty cool, very cool. In 162 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:15.559 other news, and Open Minds affiliate was recently told a story about a woman 163 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:20.039 who witnessed a UFO crash in nineteen forty seven. The investigator followed up on 164 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.720 the story by tracking down and interviewing the witness, but after the interview, 165 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:28.519 it was determined that the UFO encounter involved a landing rather than a crash. 166 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.399 Josie Estrada, now seventy eight years old, lives in San Antonio, New 167 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:37.039 Mexico. Her UFO encounter occurred in at nineteen forty seven and when she was 168 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.799 fourteen years old. It was a hot July afternoon and Estrada had been out 169 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.600 hurting goats on the mesa. At approximately two pm, she saw something very 170 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:46.639 bright and shiny out of the corner of her eye. When she turned toward 171 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.960 the object, she saw the sun reflecting off something disc shaped. She described 172 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:56.039 the object as being so shiny that it resembled a mirror. Estrada said the 173 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.720 ufo descended straight down from the sky until at land, approximately one quarter mile 174 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.120 away from her position. To her, the object appeared to be the size 175 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:09.399 of a house, or perhaps slightly a little smaller. She was fascinated and 176 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.279 curious, so she excitedly rode her horse at a gallop toward the object. 177 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.759 When she approached the bright object, it violently ascended, then shot straight up 178 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:22.039 and disappeared. Other UFOs, of course, were reported to New Mexico in 179 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:26.440 nineteen forty seven, including the famous Roswell crashes. Yeah. Interesting, interesting, 180 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:31.559 Yeah, And this is someone who just emailed you or something. This 181 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:35.720 is somebody that there were some people doing an investigation in New Mexico, and 182 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:41.799 they heard a story about this woman, so and that's where they heard that 183 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:45.679 it was a UFO crash that had happened. So to find out more information, 184 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:48.600 they tracked this woman down and actually went and spoke with her about about 185 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:54.240 her encounter the actual UFO landing and again nineteen forty seven. Yeah, interesting, 186 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:58.240 kind of cool. Well, this was a big story today. Hundreds 187 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:05.279 of pro democracy protesters in Moscow reportedly witnessed a UFO in the sky above them 188 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:09.759 on Saturday. According to the Telegraph, the silent object was clearly not a 189 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:16.080 helicopter and was described as having pulsating colored lights and had quote five extended tendrils 190 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.639 or pylons emanating from the body of the vehicle. The crowd of people protesting 191 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:26.600 against recent election results allegedly climbed trees to better observe the UFO that seem to 192 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:31.440 be observing the twenty five thousand protesters. And there's a video of this, 193 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.519 we have it on Open Minds ONTV. And to me, I have to 194 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:39.000 say, it does look like some sort of either police drone which are commonly 195 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.039 used now. A lot of police departments around the world use these things. 196 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:48.000 And again as we've talked about a lot, there are a lot of remote 197 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:52.080 controlled toys now that people are using that light up and things, so it 198 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:58.080 could be either one of those. It doesn't look very mysterious. It looks 199 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:00.360 more like one of those things because we see those a lot. Yeah, 200 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.279 it's kind of cool. I don't think. The reason I don't think it's 201 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:05.759 a toy is because it would be kind of dumb. I mean, this 202 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:11.639 crowd is huge, thousands of twenty five thousand people up, so to be 203 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:15.960 flying a toy over twenty five a mob of twenty five thousand people, I 204 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:20.360 mean, these are angry people who are mad at Putin because they think he 205 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.200 cheated on the elections. So I don't think, but it would make total 206 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:26.279 sense that, you know, in order to get a scope of how big 207 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:31.399 this crowd is, the police would send a drone over and you know on 208 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:35.679 your story it's funny. Separately, Jason wrote a story and so did I 209 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:37.919 for you up to the Daily News. But we had similar thoughts because we 210 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:41.120 put up pictures of drones and in one of the drones I had, it 211 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:46.879 has a circle very similar to what they see. The difference is it doesn't 212 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:50.600 have a long Fuseladge. I think the video is really cool though, even 213 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:54.480 if it's a drone, you know, that stuff's kind of cool too to 214 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.399 see one flying around up there because it's got blinking lights, it's hovering and 215 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:03.559 flying around up there, and it looks more sophisticated than just your standard remote 216 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:07.799 control, especially in Russia where they really aren't like out here. You know, 217 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:11.639 they still struggle economically and stuff. They have been for a while where 218 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:15.159 we've got all kinds of wonderful toys, but we still complain right everything, 219 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:19.480 And you know, this object does appear to be you know, over the 220 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:23.960 crowd observing, and that's precisely what police use these drones for. Yeah, 221 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.679 so I think that would be the only way I can just think, as 222 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:30.960 a police officer, how would you understand where all the people are in the 223 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.399 scope of this crowd without something like that, So, you know, it'd 224 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.399 be vital for them, and now they have the technology. So I tried 225 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:41.720 to look up drones in Russia and I couldn't find anything. Just what we 226 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.279 found. The UK has a lot the smaller ones like the pictures we posted, 227 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:49.279 but the ones in America by the American police, those are more like 228 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:56.080 elaborate remote control helicopters, but they look a lot more elaborate and expensive, 229 00:16:56.279 --> 00:17:00.679 yeah, which is like a remote control helicopters. And they're also smaller scale 230 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:03.119 of like the military drones that are like small exactly. I mean they're cool, 231 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:07.279 they're big and elaborate, and yeah, they're really cool. Yep. 232 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:12.279 Well, in other news, a I have statistic here, this is kind 233 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:18.160 of fun. A third of New Zealanders believe aliens have visited Earth. A 234 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:22.480 third. Yeah, not just UFOs. They don't just believe in UFOs. 235 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:27.119 They believe aliens have visited Earth. Perhaps even more surprising, at least to 236 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:33.720 me, is that the number of believers is greater for actually greatest among the 237 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:37.720 thirty to forty four year olds, at thirty six percent. Wow, only 238 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.960 twenty six percent of those aged sixty and older believe we've been visited. People 239 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:47.920 are most intelligent between those years too, thirty three and what was a forty 240 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:53.559 years old thirty and forty four? Yeah, that's your your peak of intelligence. 241 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.680 You're only saying that because you fall into that category. Well, that's 242 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.960 how I know from experience, and so I will talk to you when you're 243 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.759 sixty and I think you will change your view to a sixty and older kid. 244 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.559 Probably either that or I'll be like, what, what's your name? 245 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.000 I think that's right, well, Alejandro. That is all for the news 246 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:15.079 today. Remember you can check out all of these stories and so many more 247 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.440 at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. And if you 248 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.960 have a comment about any of these stories, or you'd like to share your 249 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.440 own story, feel free to email me at Jason at openminds dot tv. 250 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:30.559 You can contact me on Facebook Jason Openminds, and I'm also on Twitter at 251 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:34.519 a centric That's ace C E N t R I C. That is it 252 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:37.839 for the news. I am Jas McClellan, your Opening Mind's news correspondent, 253 00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:44.400 and you've just been briefed. All right, and thanks j Lo Jlo. 254 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:48.039 That's kind of called Jason. That is not cool. I'm offended, Jlo 255 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:53.720 is Jennifer Lopez. That's already been taken. Yeah, but you're sure here, 256 00:18:53.799 --> 00:19:00.279 Jason, Jlo. We'll talk later, all right, Thank you, 257 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:06.559 Jason. As usual, that was a great news brief. Late breaking sad, 258 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:12.720 late breaking news. Whitley Streeberd just now texts that Roger Lear is in 259 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:18.759 the hospital and having difficulty breathing, and he says to please pray for him, 260 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.480 So we all ask you the same. So Roger Lear, you know, 261 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:26.599 as a good friend of ours. We see him at all the conferences 262 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.400 and talk with him and hang out, and yeah, he's a good friend 263 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:33.960 of ours. He's been here quite a bit, and he's a really neat 264 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:36.759 guy. And of course, if you're unaware, this is the guy who 265 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:47.240 is the foot surgeon who has extracted or arranged to have extracted alien implants, 266 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:52.279 and so he's kind of the forerunner in that field, and so you might 267 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:59.079 I'm sure you've heard his interviews or seen him. So unfortunately he's in the 268 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:03.160 hospital now right now, so everybody thinks some good thoughts for him, so 269 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:11.039 hopefully he'll get out soon. Also, the disclosure petition, don't forget the 270 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:19.640 disclosure petition. You can read more about that at disclosurepetition dot com. And 271 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:26.920 this is of course the petition that has been put forward by Bryce Zabel and 272 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:33.200 Richard Dolan. And really, I guess the whole point is a lot of 273 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.759 people, of course, are skeptical that really Washington's going to say anything different 274 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:44.839 than they've already said with the last petition. However, this one is more 275 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:51.720 oriented to UFOs in general or UAPs, and actually I'm going to talk about 276 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:57.720 that with Mac what he thinks of the UFO versus UAP thing. UAP is 277 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:03.359 is unidentified a phenomena, and some people feel that that sounds more professional than 278 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.920 the UFO because UFO has a lot of baggage. My argument is, if 279 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:08.839 you tell someone about uips, what are they going to say? What are 280 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:11.799 you talking about? And you're gonna have to say UFOs, and so, 281 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.680 you know, you don't really win that way. I think we have to 282 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:19.400 change, and we are changing what people think about UFOs in general. I 283 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:25.279 don't think everybody these days thinks about UFOs is just totally being silly. I 284 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:29.960 think that that paradigm is changing, which is wonderful, and even though that's 285 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.559 harder work, I think that's great. But anyway, that's what the disclosure 286 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:41.799 petition that Bryce and Richard is focused on. So you can go to disclosurepetition 287 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:45.480 dot com and read some information about it and go there and sign it. 288 00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:49.599 He's already got well over one thousand. I think we're pushing two thousand, 289 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:56.079 maybe even more. We need twenty five thousand by December thirtieth, So go 290 00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:00.799 get your family and your friends and sign this thing. Also, Li Spiegel 291 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:04.599 of the Huffington Post has written about it lately and he actually got a lot 292 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:08.960 of great quotes from people. And you can see that if you keep up 293 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:14.119 to speed on all of our facebooks and twitters that we have what we got. 294 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:18.440 We've got Open Minds TV on Twitter. We've got UFO Daily News on 295 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.079 Twitter. On Facebook, we have UFO Think Tank, we have UFO Daily 296 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:26.039 News. We have Alejandro Rojas, we have Open Minds Marine and Open Minds 297 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.039 Jason, Open Minds Magazine. We're all over the place. So we post 298 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.039 all of this stuff and we've had some updates on all of these stories. 299 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:40.119 And of course we follow Lespiegel's stories and he's going to be speaking at our 300 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:44.079 conference. And what's great about Lispiegel is he writes some stories where he does 301 00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:48.119 lots of interviews, gets lots of really good quotes, and he's pretty much 302 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:53.279 the only real national news There are some local newswriters who do a great job, 303 00:22:53.759 --> 00:23:00.519 Steve Hammond's Billy Cox, but he's the only one that's really for a 304 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:07.720 nationally syndicated news that is writing regularly on UFOs, and of course I've got 305 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:11.039 my blog up there, thanks Lee. But I know that we also have 306 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:17.359 some upcoming stories that will be on the Huffington Post. I'm pretty sure on 307 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:21.039 the same subject, So keep an eye there. But go ahead and sign 308 00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:23.720 that petition if you haven't yet. If all of you listeners went and signed 309 00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:30.079 that, we would have enough and we would get another comment, and hopefully 310 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:36.319 one that's more oriented around the UFO phenomena and possibly at least investigating it as 311 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:40.359 opposed to them focusing on whether or not we've talked to extra trust drills a 312 00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:44.559 lot or thus far, and we'll talk more about that. I ask every 313 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.920 guest you know pretty much what they think about the extratrustural hypothesis, meaning, 314 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:53.319 just because we know there's a UFO phenomena, does that necessarily mean it's extraterrestrial 315 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:59.039 in nature. I'm kind of like Jim mars he said, it's probably all 316 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.920 about that and more or it's a very complicated matter. I fit in that 317 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.519 arena, but some don't. Some feel that, you know, maybe that's 318 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:11.400 too assumptive. Some feel that maybe we need to focus on the fact that 319 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.759 there's more to this than just that. So there are a lot of interesting 320 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:21.720 and intelligence thoughts when it comes to this. Also, you may have heard, 321 00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:23.079 and I might as well just say, and just so I could get 322 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:27.400 it on the record that Michael Horne, who we've had on the show before, 323 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:30.400 talking about Billy Meyer. You know, one of the reasons I wanted 324 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:36.160 to get him on the show. It's because, sure, we have had 325 00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:40.079 some doubts about the Billy Myer case, myself and some of the other people 326 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:45.319 who have written pieces here at Open Minds, and he like he says, 327 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:48.799 we have the Wendell Stevens archives, And you know, when I went into 328 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.000 this, I thought, Wow, this is going to be great because I 329 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.759 wanted to meet and you know, well, you guys listen to my show. 330 00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.119 I wanted to meet for the Billy Myers saying, to come out and 331 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:03.720 say, hey, we found some great stuff in the archives to really substantiate 332 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.160 the whole Billy Meyer story. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. Instead, just 333 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.000 the opposite happened, and we found more that was kind of dubious and that 334 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:15.440 hadn't made us doubt. I mean, I wanted to believe the Billy Myers 335 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.400 thing, and I'm just skeptical because if you listen to the show, so 336 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:22.279 many of the kind of convoluted things that don't make sense. Regarding this, 337 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.119 well, Michael Horn's a little upset with me because I'm kind of not jumping 338 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:30.519 on the vandwagon. But I'll promise you and Michael Horn and everybody else, 339 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:37.799 if Michael Horn really comes up with some great evidence that demonstrates that something is 340 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.839 happening, I will more than happy to be to write about it and to 341 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:45.200 talk to you guys about it. But thus far that hasn't happened. All 342 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.759 the emails I get from Michael Horn fit in the same argument I had when 343 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:52.200 he was on the show, which is that it's a link to a site 344 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.680 that says Billy Meyer said this, and then this is what really happened, 345 00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.000 and so he predicted this. But that's not enough. I could do that 346 00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:02.319 all day. I can say, Jason predicted that, you know, a 347 00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:07.119 UFO is gonna fly over Russians and put off and all of this are putting 348 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:10.440 in all of this stuff, and then but if I don't have any proof 349 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:15.599 to document that he did that, then we don't go anywhere. So and 350 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.079 I just don't feel that he if he has it, he hasn't demonstrated that 351 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:21.720 well enough, and I wish him all the best. I hope he can 352 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:26.960 demonstrate it, because that would be incredible, that'd be phenomenal. So that's 353 00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:30.359 just so you all know. Of course, if I found some extraordinary data, 354 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.640 extraordinary data that really debunks the whole thing, I'll also share that, 355 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:37.680 because you know, I want to give you guys the truth and what's going 356 00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.680 on so you can make up your own minds. But enough said about that, 357 00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:45.039 and I probably won't go there for quite some time unless some great stuff 358 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.799 comes out. Let's go ahead and get to our interview though, with Mac 359 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.640 Maloney, the author of UFOs in Wartime. He's a great guy. I'm 360 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:57.960 excited to talk to him. I am happy, and I know I say 361 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:02.319 this every time, but because it's true and it's what I'm really feeling, 362 00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:07.200 I'm really excited to talk to Matt Maloney today, the author of UFOs in 363 00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.680 Wartime. Mac are you there? Yes, I am. How are you? 364 00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:15.119 I'm doing pretty good tonight? How are you doing good? Not too 365 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:19.039 bad? So it's great you've been getting some publicity. I was all excited, 366 00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:22.839 you know, I always get I've had some authors recently and one of 367 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.039 them hasn't been around as much, and so it's always fun to kind of 368 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.039 have someone on the show and then it's their first time out there and people 369 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:33.440 get to know them. And I kind of was hoping that would be the 370 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.079 case. But that which is no big deal, because it's wonderful to see 371 00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:38.759 you were on Coast to Coast and you've been doing some interviews. That's awesome. 372 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:45.480 Yeah, the publisher was able to connect with Coast to Coast and that 373 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.880 just kind of came out of the blue. I had to get up at 374 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.880 one o'clock in the morning to do it from quo am to five am. 375 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:56.039 But other than that, you know, it was it was a great opportunity. 376 00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.960 I think every interview I do is a is an opportunity just to talk 377 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.920 about the book in UFOs in general. Yeah, well, it's great you 378 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.559 got Coast Kaza. You know that always drives a lot of hits, So 379 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.720 that's good. Hopefully got book sales, I hope so. So. I 380 00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:19.759 think you were telling me earlier that this is your first non fiction and it's 381 00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:26.559 on the UFOs right. I'm primarily a fiction writer. I've been writing full 382 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.960 time military fiction for about twenty years. Or so. We've got about thirty 383 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:37.319 thirty five books stuff, counting a few books ago. But I basically have 384 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:44.400 been doing like Tom Clancy stuff and I did a post nine to eleven series 385 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:47.920 called super Hawks. I started back in the eighties with a series called Wingman. 386 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.319 He was about it was about a Zen fighter pilot, and a few 387 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:57.079 other series along the way, and a couple of them touched on the UFO 388 00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:02.440 puzzle, let's say, but didn't really go that deep into them. So 389 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.839 when I had this opportunity to write this book, nonfiction book, I jumped 390 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:10.839 at the chance because I've always been interested in UFOs. It was an opportunity 391 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:12.680 for me to bring the kind of military side of the stuff I do to 392 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:18.640 to UFOs. So, you know, hopefully it came out okay, yeah, 393 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.160 yeah, that's great. Was this book it all a bit of a 394 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:25.400 coming out for you. I mean, where there's some of your readers that 395 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:30.480 were shocked or surprised by you writing a nonfiction on UFOs. Well, I 396 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:34.240 don't think that they were shocked. I think maybe surprised, but anyone who 397 00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:37.920 has, you know, read my fiction stuff, I don't think they should 398 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:41.680 be surprised about anything because it's you know, it's it's kind of Tom Clancy 399 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:48.559 stuff, but on the it's a little to left field of Tom Clancy's stuff. 400 00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.440 And you know, like I said, we've dealt with UFOs before, 401 00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:56.000 We've dealt with like, you know, conspiracy theories and things along that line. 402 00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.680 So I don't think it really surprised many of my is that I would 403 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.119 go to do a nonfiction book. Everyone I've heard from said that, you 404 00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.720 know, they're into it. So that's good, that's very good. That's 405 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:12.599 and I don't know if you feel this way, but it certainly seems, 406 00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:18.559 you know, oftentimes because of the ridicule factor that comes along with UFOs, 407 00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:25.440 sometimes people are are don't like to talk about their UFO beliefs. And I 408 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:29.720 think the polls show even though in the public people aren't talking about it as 409 00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:33.759 much, the poll showed that a lot of people are believe in the phenomena 410 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.559 or at least think that it's interesting and they'd like to know more. That 411 00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:45.079 there are a lot of people out there that that are willing to talk about 412 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:52.920 it. Well, you know, in the in the publishing world, it's 413 00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:57.359 let me say it's it's considered not fringe, but you know, you you, 414 00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:03.599 you do kind of have to be prepared for people looking sideways at you, 415 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:07.119 if you know what I mean when you bring it up. But on 416 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.400 the other hand, in the publishing world, they know that, as you 417 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:14.160 say, there's a lot of people interested in it, there's a lot of 418 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.440 people who are interested in it. Might not voice their opinions, I know, 419 00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:23.079 but you know from firsthand experience that there's a lot of Air Mind pilots 420 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:30.039 who are usually retired if was pilots as you know, who are very interested 421 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.640 in it, but would never say anything like in their workplace about it. 422 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.640 So I think there's a lot of like closeted UFO fans out there, and 423 00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:42.759 I think through shows like Yours and Coast to Coast and things like that, 424 00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:45.319 I think that you know, they're getting the information that they would like to 425 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.759 get and learn more about it. Yeah, I think it's great to provide 426 00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:53.079 it and that that happens. And I always think it's great of people like 427 00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:57.640 you, and I love to hear the stories because it does take some courage 428 00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:02.559 to go to those arenas, and I'd like to hear when people like you 429 00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:08.039 go to publishers or to places where you are looked at sideways and brave enough 430 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.759 to say, hey, this is what I want to do, because I 431 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:17.799 think it helps loosen up those environments out there that still have that, you 432 00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:22.720 know, looking at you sideways kind of connotation attached to this whole thing. 433 00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:28.000 Well, you know, in my case, I've been doing it for a 434 00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:32.119 long time, and you know, publishing or being a published writer, it's 435 00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:37.799 a hot business to stay in. It changes all the time, and people 436 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.880 always say, you know, publishing is is Really it's worse it's ever been. 437 00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:46.680 I've heard that for twenty years. You know, they're into making money, 438 00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:52.359 frankly, and you know they'll publish something that they think will make money. 439 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.119 But on the other hand, you know, when you go approach them 440 00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:59.680 with a project like this, what you're doing is that not only will you 441 00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:04.680 writer be involved this this is going to take like two years of good life, 442 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.400 but it's also going to take a certain amount of time on the of 443 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:12.480 an editor, of an editor's assistant, of you know, the publisher itself, 444 00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:14.799 the print of the copy of that. So you're involving a lot of 445 00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:17.480 people. When you sign a book contract, your agent is another one. 446 00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:22.440 And so the idea, I thought the idea would be well, let's just 447 00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:29.599 make this so it's informative and it's it's really just it's not a long text 448 00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:34.880 or a thesis on UFOs. It's a collection of seventy episodes put in chronological 449 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:38.039 order, having to do it military encuncters with UFOs, and I just thought, 450 00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:40.480 well, this is the way that we'll do it where at the very 451 00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.960 least it will be entertaining and maybe if people, some people out there who 452 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:47.759 don't believe in UFOs read it. I think by the end of the book, 453 00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:51.200 you know, I think we make a big case that UFOs exists and 454 00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:54.599 something's going on, so at at least it will attract the interest of everyone 455 00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:59.400 who is going to be involved in it. So that's kind of how I 456 00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:01.240 looked at the you know, I had a little bit of a track record, 457 00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:06.640 so you combine those two things, and I really didn't run into too 458 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:08.519 much, you know, looking sideways at me a little bit, but not 459 00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:15.360 much. That's good. What I think other people also find exciting and or 460 00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:20.960 at least they don't expect, which is, you know, something you certainly 461 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:27.239 touch on in this book are the very credible accounts and the credible people that 462 00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:31.719 have had experiences and you're certainly talking to a lot because you know, people 463 00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:39.639 hold for the most part, military people are retired military pretty highly and there 464 00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:45.280 are a lot of these guys that have sightings or know of excitings, or 465 00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:47.719 have buddies who have sightings. I think for me that was interesting when I 466 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:55.000 started getting involved with this how much military personnel have had stories. But we 467 00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:59.360 found a lot of them, you know, and it kind of goes to 468 00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:01.719 the idea that, you know, what we're trying to say in the book 469 00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:06.719 is that you know, during times of war or when we're preparing to go 470 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.880 to war, that UFO citing spike, So it would just be natural that 471 00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:14.599 a lot of military people would be the people observing these things. And that's 472 00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:20.159 certainly the case in in once again, It's It's It's an It's a something 473 00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:23.639 says it says something about the military of the United States that the military structure 474 00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:28.840 has definitely been involved in some kind of a cover up of uwerfols, whether 475 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:30.599 they know what they are and they're covering that up, or they don't know 476 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:35.440 what they are and they're covering that up. But it's something about the American 477 00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:39.679 military person that when someone tells them don't say anything about this ever again, 478 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:45.880 which is which is usually what someone is told if they report a UFO citing 479 00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:47.320 while they're a member of the military. And you know, a lot of 480 00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:52.639 people stick to that oath. A lot of people go to the grave not 481 00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:57.079 telling what happened, you know, and it's it says something good about you 482 00:35:57.079 --> 00:36:00.760 know, the American military person. But as people like us who are trying 483 00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.920 to get to the bottom of this, I mean more people, you know, 484 00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:06.679 a lot of more people more than me, but you know, it's 485 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.119 kind of a hindrance too. But so you know, there's a certain amount 486 00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:14.719 of coverage on the pot of people who you know, usually retired military people 487 00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:17.599 who have seen something to come forward and tell people like us what they saw. 488 00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:21.239 But every time they do it just further, it just moves us that 489 00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:23.440 much further down the road to figure out what this thing is, right, 490 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:27.960 And I want to get more into that, and I you know, all 491 00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:31.239 of your comments just inspire more questions. But before I forget, I do 492 00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:36.599 want to kind of get to the beginning as to what peaud your interests in 493 00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:44.280 the UFO phenomenon. Well, when I was a hit growing up in Boston, 494 00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:46.320 I would go to the library all the time, and I would just 495 00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:51.960 look for every UFO book that I could find, and I read them over 496 00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.760 and over. There there's only a certain number of them in this little library 497 00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:57.760 we went to, so I wound up reading them over and over again. 498 00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.079 And I was a fan of science fiction too. I grew up in the 499 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:04.239 fifties and there was a lot of kind of sci fi UFO stuff going on, 500 00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:08.079 so it always attracted my interest. But I've never seen one. I 501 00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:12.519 always wanted to see one, but I never saw one. But what really 502 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:15.519 convinced me that something was going on was I have an older brother who was 503 00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:22.079 in the Air Force for twenty five years, and when he first joined the 504 00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:23.559 Air Force, he was only in the Air Force, probably about a year 505 00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:27.440 and a half or so. He was a jet engine mechanic and he was 506 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:30.800 assigned to an airbase down in South Carolina, and he told me the story. 507 00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:35.360 He was out on the flight line at night. They were fixing an 508 00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:37.000 airplane in the middle of the night, only because it got so hot down 509 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:40.079 there during the day that it was more comfortable for them to do it at 510 00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:44.119 night. And he was out there with three or four other people, isolated 511 00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:45.679 out of the flight line, and this UFO came out of the sky, 512 00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:49.960 came right down on top of the right on top of them, and it 513 00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:54.119 startled them so much they actually dove underneath the airplane for cover. He looked 514 00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:58.239 up at this thing, he says, it was just it was a flying 515 00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:00.920 sauce. It was a sauce of shape that lights. It was right. 516 00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:04.880 It stayed hovering over the airplane for a few minutes, and then it took 517 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:08.239 off. And then he said, he made the supreme mistake of telling higher 518 00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:15.599 authority. And so what they did was they isolated he and the four people 519 00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:19.840 who were with him, put them in separate rooms, and for the next 520 00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:23.400 four days didn't interrogate them. But basically what they did was they had them 521 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:28.599 tell their story over and over and over again, night and day, over 522 00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:30.559 and over again for four or five days. And my brother said, at 523 00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:34.199 the end of the fourth day, he just wanted to get out of there. 524 00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:37.000 So what they had them do with the Air Force had to do was 525 00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:39.440 sign, let's say, an affidavit or a statement saying that what they actually 526 00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:44.400 saw was a reentry vehicle from something that had been shot off from Cape Canaveral, 527 00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:46.400 And he says he signed it. They all signed because they just wanted 528 00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:52.960 this just to end, and he did, and he said he really regretted 529 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:57.119 ever telling anybody about it. And that's that's the atmosphere that you have in 530 00:38:57.159 --> 00:39:00.239 the military that you know, we find that all throughout this, as we 531 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:01.400 have in the book, is that if you say anything about it, you're 532 00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:07.559 going to be ridiculed, or you're going to be questioned and let's say, 533 00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:12.800 just bored to the point of saying, you know, I that isn't really 534 00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:15.679 what I saw. Now. The unusual thing about my brother's career is that 535 00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:21.840 towards the end of his career, or certainly later when he was further into 536 00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:23.480 his career at the Air Force, he was sent to Area fifty one a 537 00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:28.639 couple times to work on Air Force planes that had broken down out there. 538 00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:32.760 So he's actually been there, and he told me a few stories about, 539 00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:37.239 you know, not UFO relate or anything, but just what a strange place 540 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:39.239 that is. One of them is that when he got off the plane, 541 00:39:39.239 --> 00:39:44.599 there was a sign there that said, remember you would never hear. And 542 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:49.480 another wird thing he told me is that for some reason, there's lawns in 543 00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:51.639 front of a lot of the buildings out there, and as you know, 544 00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:54.159 it's out in the middle of the desert, and it just struck him as 545 00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:59.840 odd that there would be lawns out there and there were people with lawnmowers and 546 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:01.760 trimming them and watering them, and you know, he just thought that was 547 00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:07.960 very odd too. That is very strange. Yeah, and that well, 548 00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.079 and I'm sure you ran into this more dealing with the military, the whole 549 00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:14.800 idea of it's just too much of a headache. I have a funny story 550 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:16.480 of mine was this guy who worked the do line way back, you know, 551 00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:22.400 during the beginning of the Cold War, and out on a ship way 552 00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:27.880 out there near Russia, and they had gotten a new radar system and this 553 00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.320 radar system kept catching things that were strange. She was a radar tech and 554 00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:34.719 so they would call him up and say, hey, Carter, you know 555 00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.199 what's wrong with the radar. He would check it out and they would say 556 00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:42.519 nothing, and they ended up starting to call him Carter's contacts because they kept 557 00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:45.239 screwing up. They called and they had the guys come look at it, 558 00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:49.480 and they kept looking at it. You know, it was all this harassment 559 00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.400 and everything, and finally they just toned the thing down so it didn't get 560 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:59.400 as far. But Franklin wondered why the other radar boats weren't talking about this. 561 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:02.320 Later on a couple of people and he got the same answer, are 562 00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:06.400 you kidding? We weren't going to report that we were getting that weird step, 563 00:41:06.440 --> 00:41:07.880 but we weren't going to say anything. We didn't want any trouble. 564 00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:10.639 And you get this over and again, we don't want any trouble, so 565 00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:14.840 we're not reporting it, right. It's you know. The unusual thing, 566 00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:17.239 too, is that that's how it is in the US military. And there's 567 00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:21.360 there's a number of reasons for that, including the fact that in the beginning 568 00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:24.079 of the fifties, the CIA actually started a campaign to make it seem like 569 00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:30.079 it would people would be ridiculed if they reported UFOs. But in Russia, 570 00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:34.719 and I'm sure you probably know this, in Russia back in the seventies, 571 00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:37.679 I think they were so interested in UFOs, this is when Russia was still 572 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:42.679 the Soviet Union, that they told all their military people pilots, soldier, 573 00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:45.000 sailors, whatever, if you ever see a UFO, fill out a report 574 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:50.639 and send it into US. So they basically had this huge army huge armed 575 00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:57.400 forces, millions of eyes looking in the sky reporting UFOs is the exact opposite 576 00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:00.639 of, you know, the stance that we took. Now what they saw, 577 00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:04.480 what they found out, who knows, you know, And maybe some 578 00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:07.119 of that stuff came out when you know, the wall came down. I 579 00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:08.480 don't know, I get a feel, and a lot of it didn't. 580 00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:13.360 But there's just a complete opposite of the way that we look at it. 581 00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:16.840 And they were encouraging the soldiers to see them. We're discouraging our soldiers from 582 00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:22.719 seeing them. Yeah, and it's also interesting and you might have found this 583 00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:29.079 and maybe you can speak to this kind of the evolution of our military. 584 00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:32.440 It quickly changed early on, but in the you see in the late forties 585 00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:39.559 and fifties that there really was these heated debates inside of the military going on 586 00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:45.039 about what do we do about this whole UFO thing before ridicule really kicked in 587 00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:49.880 and it all shut down. But it was interesting back then because I think 588 00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:52.599 there was some debate do we do like the Russians, Do we have them 589 00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:54.400 send them out there and say, hey, tell us what's going on and 590 00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:58.639 you know, tell the public what we're experiencing, or do we shut it 591 00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:01.199 up. Unfortunately, they chose to shut it up. Well, they chose 592 00:43:01.239 --> 00:43:05.039 to shut it up, right, and they would you know, you have 593 00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:08.119 to ask the question why, you know why there was there was a point 594 00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:13.960 in nineteen forty seven where you know, they the Air Force went to their 595 00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:21.239 A t i C Section which was made up of scientists, Air Intelligent, 596 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:27.719 Air Technical Intelligence Center and and they said, look into UFOs and they were 597 00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:31.800 called flying soiences at the time. And six months later they came back with, 598 00:43:32.679 --> 00:43:36.159 you know, their report was, we think these things are real and 599 00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:37.639 depending on basically said to them, that's not what we want to hear. 600 00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:42.159 Go and change the report. And they did, and they and they came 601 00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:44.320 back, you know, six months later. I'm shoting in the story, 602 00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:46.880 but they come back and said, well, most UFO settings are either hoaxes 603 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:52.360 or hallucinations or whatever. That was the time right then that the Air Force 604 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.400 could have done a serious study on UFOs and they didn't. Instead of opening 605 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:59.239 up, as you say, and really looking into it, they chose to 606 00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:02.320 cover it up, you know, and we're still suffering prior to sixty years 607 00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:09.440 later. Yeah, and did you find in the military witnesses that you've talked 608 00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:13.039 to not only, of course, do we all suffer because we don't have 609 00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:19.159 the information, but in particular a lot of these poor guys suffer, yeah, 610 00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:22.639 if they say anything they do. In World War two, even in 611 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:29.840 both American pilots and British pilots, what they found out very quickly in regards 612 00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:34.920 to the food fighters, they were running into these unidentified flying objects over Europe 613 00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:38.079 and during the Pacific War as well, but over Europe they would these food 614 00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:43.320 fighters would trail them during bombing runs and show up and fly in formation with 615 00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:45.440 them. And some of them were glowing orbs, and some of them were 616 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:50.280 craft cigar shaped craft, so sauce of shape craft and so on. And 617 00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:53.840 what they found out very quickly is that when they returned from their bombing mission 618 00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:59.760 and were debriefed by their intelligence offices, that the intelligence sauces would take the 619 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:02.559 animation about food fighters. But basically they were saying, look, we're here 620 00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:06.199 to win the war, We're here to bomb Germany. Whatever these things are, 621 00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:08.960 we don't have time or the wherewithal to figure out what they are, 622 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:14.159 so you know, if you're going to report them, sure, But what 623 00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:19.480 they found out was they were basically told silently don't report these things, and 624 00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:22.960 those people that didn't were ridiculed as you were just you know, pointing out 625 00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:27.239 so you know, you don't you know how the service is a very closed 626 00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:30.280 society. You don't want to be ridiculed about anything, never mind, you 627 00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:34.639 know, for reporting some flashcood and Buck Roger's thing that was going on. 628 00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:37.519 So it really suppressed a lot of sightings that if if we knew more about 629 00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:40.440 them, we might be that much closer to figuring out what this thing is. 630 00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:46.440 I was thinking about starting chronologically, but maybe since you started up talking 631 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:50.079 about the foo fighters, it would be a good point to jump in because 632 00:45:50.360 --> 00:46:00.360 that's really the most well known UFO wartime phenomena, the foo fighters. Well, 633 00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:05.079 I have to give a tip of my hat to another author named Keith 634 00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:07.719 Chester. He wrote a book called Strange Company, which is the definitive book 635 00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:10.920 on food fighters, and anyone who wants to know everything there was to know 636 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.960 about food fighters, they should pick that up. And he and I became 637 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:16.719 friends over the phone and through email, and he helped me a lot as 638 00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:20.119 far as you know, way to research and how to do a book like 639 00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:23.599 this. But basically what happened was early in World War two. We'll start 640 00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:28.920 with World War two in Europe when the British were started the bombing campaign against 641 00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:34.679 Germany. Very early in it, proma cruz were coming back and reporting that, 642 00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:37.000 you know, either going to the target, while over the target, 643 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:43.880 or returning from the target. These strange glowing lights are they called them unguided 644 00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:47.599 rockets. At at some point or these aerial craft would would would tail them. 645 00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:52.079 They would either trail behind them. Sometimes they would fly in formation off 646 00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:57.159 one of their wings. Sometimes they'd play in front of them. They would 647 00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:00.280 they would stay with their airplanes from anywhere from a minute to almost an hour. 648 00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:04.800 They would maneuver around them, and then you know, invariably they would 649 00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:07.599 take off in such a high versus speed they'd be gone in the blink of 650 00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:14.440 an eye. And these reports started kind of filtering in the British didn't really 651 00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:17.559 know what to do about them. So once again this kind of ridicule, 652 00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:23.800 ridicule factor came in and these reports. They feel that a lot of them, 653 00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:29.119 the intelligence sources might have taken them, but they probably didn't go very 654 00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:34.159 high up the command chain. So then in nineteen forty two, when the 655 00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:39.480 American Air Force started arriving end of forty two beginning point three started arriving in 656 00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:45.039 force in England. Air Force said, the US Air Force used on the 657 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:46.679 Air Force, it was called the time, used to bomb during the day 658 00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:52.280 and the British would bomb at night. And suddenly American crews start seeing all 659 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:57.679 these weird things too. And there was the same situation where the intelligence officers 660 00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:59.960 were faced with this problem with well, look at we want to get all 661 00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:04.000 details we can't about how to beat Germany. But you know this crazy you 662 00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:06.639 know, as they said buck rogers, flash gorge and stuff. Because those 663 00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:08.280 things were very popular at the time. They just didn't know what to do 664 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:13.159 with it. So for the most most part they suppressed it. There were 665 00:48:13.239 --> 00:48:16.960 situations where photos were taken and they were examined. There's a story that came 666 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:21.519 out just a little while ago. The Winston Church was actually shown a very 667 00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:25.320 detailed secret photo of a fool fighter that had been trailing a British reconnaissance plane, 668 00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:30.039 and he banned it from being released for fifty years because he thought it 669 00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:34.239 was from out of space and he thought if there were people here from out 670 00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:40.679 of space beings that our society would collapse. So anyway, people saw these 671 00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:45.440 things all throughout the Wall, British pilots, American pilots, as it turned 672 00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.480 out, German pilots saw them too, and the Pacific. There's a lot 673 00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:53.719 of reports of the same thing, these weird craft trailing our Obamas on these 674 00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:59.760 long bombing runs that they would do over the Pacific, and probably maybe about 675 00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:04.679 ten percent or even less were actually reported and recorded. I think Keith Chester 676 00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:07.440 figures that, you know, the vast, vast majority of them went unreported, 677 00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:12.079 and you know, that's a shame, but that's that's just the situation. 678 00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:15.159 And the strange thing is too, is when the war was over, 679 00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:19.159 I mean, for a lot of the British especially, they were just convinced 680 00:49:19.159 --> 00:49:23.199 these were German super weapons and at the end of the war we would find 681 00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:28.199 out what they were. But and there's a lot of books around these days, 682 00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:32.079 frankly where you know that they make their haste that these things were Nazi 683 00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:37.079 super weapons and they might still be round and so on. But we went 684 00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:42.159 to detail in the book saying that it's impossible for them to have been Nazi 685 00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:45.280 weapons because number one, there was no recorded instances of any of these Foo 686 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:51.039 fighters firing on our obomas. So if they were Nazi weapons, why wouldn't 687 00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:53.360 they fire on us? Why wouldn't they fire on our troops? Number two? 688 00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:58.559 By midway through the war in nineteen forty three or so, the Nazis 689 00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.960 were running out of all kinds of materi reels, steel, rubber, barbarians, 690 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:07.960 oil, so on and so forth. Nineteen forty four, even though 691 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:10.639 they had jet fighters the enemy to sixty two, the cockpits were made out 692 00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:15.280 of wood because they didn't have the steel to make the cockpits. So how 693 00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:20.199 could the Nazis have had these fantastic flying machines when they were building their jet 694 00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:25.039 fighters cockpits out of wood? And where was the support structure for these kinds 695 00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:30.079 of machines? Where's the scientists, where's the fuel, where's the vast underground 696 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:35.400 facility making these things? And the biggest question of all is if they had 697 00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:38.920 some aerial machines that could fly ten thousand miles an hour do all these incredible 698 00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:44.039 things, why did they lose the law? So they couldn't have been Nazi 699 00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:47.159 super weapons, they were something else, right, Yeah, I was going 700 00:50:47.239 --> 00:50:51.159 to ask you about that, So I'm glad you went there because I know 701 00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:54.840 there wasn't even there was one report and I can't remember who it was where 702 00:50:54.880 --> 00:51:01.119 he during the soon after the war. Speculate that these were probably probes that 703 00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:07.119 were these little orbs from the Germans. But like you said, there wasn't 704 00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:12.920 evidence of this technology, nor did we find these things. And if they 705 00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:15.199 could do that back then, you know, of course we did try to 706 00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:21.760 retrieve all the technology we could from the Germans, and that hasn't been created 707 00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:27.840 right, And you know how it went after the war was you know, 708 00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:30.599 half the German scientists went to the Russians and half the German scientists came to 709 00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:37.239 the United States and basically to one Braun and his men put NASA on the 710 00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:40.480 moon. I mean, it was the German scientist the knowledge of rockets, 711 00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:45.519 liquid fuel rockets that put us on the moon. So if these had been 712 00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:49.360 German super weapons, those guys would have had to have been involved in it. 713 00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:52.599 So why didn't they just turn over all these secrets to NASSA And why 714 00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:57.559 would we be bothering putting huge you know, basically bombs inside of rockets to 715 00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:05.400 get into orbit when this crazyly technology technology was around. It just doesn't make 716 00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:08.360 sense that they would Nazi super weapons. Plus they saw them in the Pacific 717 00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:15.960 too. Now, the Food Fighter incident. A lot of people talk about 718 00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:21.239 modern euthology starting with the Kenneth Arnolds sighting in forty seven. However, I 719 00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:25.360 kind of really feel that it all got started and this slow momentum began to 720 00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:29.840 build due to the food Fighters because I don't know if you found this, 721 00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:36.679 but you probably did that. There were a lot of well respected military people. 722 00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:38.880 I mean, these were our heroes after World War Two. These guys 723 00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:44.559 won the war, saved the world, they saved the planet. And when 724 00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:47.840 they came out and they started saying we saw UFOs when we were back there 725 00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:52.559 and when we're fighting and even now flying around in the United States, people 726 00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:55.920 took their words. And even when the Air Force tried to debunk them. 727 00:52:55.960 --> 00:53:00.159 I mean people are like, look, Air Force officials, you're trying to 728 00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:04.000 tell us this war hero is not telling the truth. I'm sorry. We 729 00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:07.599 believe him more. Well, you know, it was it was definitely a 730 00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:12.320 campaign that the Air Force, you know, went ahead with full force, 731 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:17.199 and that was to cover up the situation two and then to make anyone who 732 00:53:17.239 --> 00:53:21.800 reported the UFO, whether there were civilians or military, make them the object 733 00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:25.400 of ridicule and any you know, the the the Air Force had several projects 734 00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:30.280 of blue Book grudge were you know, a couple of the names and these 735 00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:34.320 things weren't they weren't you know, filled with scientists, you know, with 736 00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:37.760 lab coats looking into UFOs. They were just basically military officers who were trying 737 00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:44.800 their best to debunk every UFO report that would come in. And I think 738 00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:49.199 it was doctor Jay Allen Heinek who said that during you know, when the 739 00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:53.039 military was investigating UFOs, none of them got the quote unquote FBI treatment, 740 00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:57.840 meaning you know, none of them got the CSI treatment. Basically, what 741 00:53:57.880 --> 00:54:01.920 they were doing was they would take the UFO citing that they knew was venus 742 00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:07.800 or seagulls or something like that, and they would that's what they would investigate. 743 00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:09.480 So they would at the end of their investigation, they would say, 744 00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:13.639 see it was just venus. See it was just a flock of seagulls. 745 00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:16.480 And the ones that they couldn't explain are the ones that they didn't investigate. 746 00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:22.840 And that's how their force basically was able to cover this up and put it 747 00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:27.159 in people's heads that if you saw a UFO, you always had to be 748 00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:31.000 aware that people were gonna say that you were crazy. And that's the atmosphere 749 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:35.719 they created at the end of the forties and it's the atmosphere that's still around 750 00:54:35.719 --> 00:54:38.199 today. And it's even more so for as you say, for the military 751 00:54:38.199 --> 00:54:43.280 pilots, high military offices, airline pilots. They don't dare say anything about 752 00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:47.159 this stuff, not in this country because you'll just be ridiculed. Now you 753 00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:55.079 get into then after the food fighter incident, well food fighters, and maybe 754 00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:59.199 I'll have you speak to this because this is kind of interesting. It seems 755 00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:02.239 like and maybe I'm well, maybe you know better, the food fighter phenomena 756 00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:08.079 curbed that then things change and people started seeing saucers and things like that, 757 00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:12.639 but it seemed like after World War Two it curved. Is that the case 758 00:55:13.239 --> 00:55:16.559 yeap when World War two was over, the food fighters one way, and 759 00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:21.639 just the fact that they went away once we stopped, you know, making 760 00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:25.360 war on each other, to me, it's just more evidence that you know, 761 00:55:25.400 --> 00:55:30.480 we try to get across from the book, is that during war are 762 00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:35.360 preparing for the war, THEFOS sightings go way up, and it's because it's 763 00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:38.239 as if they're watching us, watching what we do. But once the war 764 00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:43.159 was over, no more food fighters are no more. What we came to 765 00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:47.039 know is food fighters, right, And I mean there were still military sightings, 766 00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:52.920 but they seem to be different, right, I mean they in nineteen 767 00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:58.559 forty seven when kind of finald you know, saw his at his sighting the 768 00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:01.840 summer of forty seven and he saw nine objects flying over Mountaineer. He was 769 00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:06.800 a businessman, I'm sure everyone knows, and he's flying in his private plane. 770 00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:10.360 He landed after he made the sighting, and eventually the press talked to 771 00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:15.599 him and his quote was they looked like sausages, you know, going across 772 00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:17.880 the top of a lake. And the press took that and twisted it into 773 00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:22.599 flying sausages, and that's how we got the term flying sauces. What's interesting 774 00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:27.480 is as soon as that story hit the newspapers, people started seeing quote unquote 775 00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:32.840 flying sauces everywhere around the country that whole summer, including the Roswell incident happened 776 00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:37.239 during that summer. The Mario Island incident happened right around that whole same time. 777 00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:45.920 We list in the book what happened in the week one week following kind 778 00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:52.159 of island sightings, and there were hundreds of sightings made of flying sauces, 779 00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:54.719 not cigar shaped, not food fidal looking flying sauces. So as soon as 780 00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:58.960 that term got out there, all of a sudden people were seeing them everywhere. 781 00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:04.920 And you're right between the flying sausa shape and the cigar shaped object. 782 00:57:05.159 --> 00:57:10.480 Those two descriptions are what people see the most, and a lot of that 783 00:57:10.519 --> 00:57:16.880 started after nineteen forty seven, and then after that you go into sightings that 784 00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:22.320 are a little less known. You know, we've tried to cover sightings at 785 00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:24.920 least not so much during the Korean War, because I don't know of a 786 00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:30.119 whole bunch of during Vietnam, but there were UFO sightings you go into during 787 00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:36.559 those wars as well. The Korean War was interesting. Actually, the Korean 788 00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:40.119 War has a lot to do with the investigation of UFOs. And once again 789 00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:45.559 I have to tip my hat to another UFO writer named doctor Richard Haynes, 790 00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:51.760 who has written the book on is called Aerial Vehicles Spotted over Korea, and 791 00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:53.480 he really, just as Keith Chester wrote the book on food Fighters, he 792 00:57:53.519 --> 00:57:59.360 wrote the book on UFOs over Korea. And this is why Korea is important. 793 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:06.119 The Air Force shut down its Project grudge right before Korea started saying that 794 00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:14.599 if any UFOs either hoaxes or their delusions, or their their hallucinations, things 795 00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:16.639 of that nature. And then all of a sudden, Korea starts. And 796 00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:21.840 now you have the situation where you have lots of jet fighters, jet fighter 797 00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:24.760 pilots flying around in jets that not only you know are armed, but they 798 00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:28.679 also have radars in them, and we have a lot of raidars on the 799 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:30.840 ground. We have a lot of radars and ships. So in Korea is 800 00:58:31.159 --> 00:58:35.360 relatively small country, it's about one third of the size of Texas, and 801 00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:40.159 so you have these crowded skies and people sat at seeing UFOs. We have 802 00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:45.320 a drawing in the book of an instant where these enormous UFOs showed up. 803 00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:52.079 These three Navy fighter bombers saw them, and now in a lot of ships 804 00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:54.519 offshore saw them. There was just a lot of UFO sightings in Korea. 805 00:58:54.559 --> 00:58:59.519 And what happened was the Air Force, because they were primarily the ones investigating 806 00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:02.119 the UFO are we supposed to be We're in a position of saying, well, 807 00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:07.119 we've just said that anyone who reports the UFO is either a hoax or 808 00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:10.880 the delusional or the religious fanatic. Yet our pilots on our reporting them, 809 00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:15.760 so we can't call them all those things, because these are the guys who 810 00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:17.440 were counting out to win this war. So they would come up with all 811 00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:22.920 these landish explanations, like there's one where a B twenty nine full of World 812 00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:27.280 War two veterans is on a bombing mission ups in North Korea and this thing 813 00:59:27.360 --> 00:59:31.920 comes up and rides alongside them for five minutes, a very bright, shining 814 00:59:31.960 --> 00:59:35.639 object, and then it takes off at high speed. And when these guys 815 00:59:35.719 --> 00:59:38.280 reported it, their force came up the explanation that it was an enemy flare. 816 00:59:39.559 --> 00:59:44.960 You know, another huge object just seen over North Korea later on in 817 00:59:45.039 --> 00:59:47.559 the war, clocked at eight hundred miles an hour. Well, their force 818 00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:52.079 said that must have been an enemy weather balloon. So they would come up 819 00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:55.079 with all these crazy explanations, but behind the scenes, we're pretty sure what 820 00:59:55.199 --> 01:00:01.199 happened was and doctor Richard Haynes's agreed is what happened. Our pilots were seeing 821 01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:04.280 so many of these things. The FOS said, you know, we better 822 01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:08.239 reopen an investigation into UFOs, and that's how Project Blue Book came about, 823 01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:13.719 and that lasted almost ten years. And relatively speaking, was probably the most 824 01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:17.840 successful if was investigation into UFOs, even though it wasn't really you know, 825 01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:23.960 that serious. They did some good work for the most part, didn't But 826 01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:28.360 that's why career is important. If if things didn't happen as they did in 827 01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:32.519 Korea, maybe they would not have got back into the business of investigating UFOs 828 01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:37.480 at all. Yeah, and it goes to which is interesting is you know? 829 01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:42.440 And that's why I appreciate your book and I think this stuff is so 830 01:00:42.519 --> 01:00:45.880 important. And you know you referred to earlier about you know, the different 831 01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:52.079 Air Force studies and I know you're referring to Rupelt's work, who is working 832 01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:58.400 on Blue Bilk. How important all of this military stuff was to the UFO 833 01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:02.079 phenomena back then because they were experiencing this and figuring out how to deal with 834 01:01:02.199 --> 01:01:08.079 it. And this is a perfect example Korea. And now they're guys who, 835 01:01:08.199 --> 01:01:12.360 like you said, they've got a back, are starting to experience these 836 01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:15.639 things. So what do we do? And it's always been a struggle for 837 01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:20.079 them, right And like I say, you know, they were put in 838 01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:23.280 this position of saying, if we go with our official line, then we're 839 01:01:23.320 --> 01:01:27.719 saying all these pilots, all pilots, well, you know, many of 840 01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:30.159 them would train combat pilots veterans from World War Two. We got to say 841 01:01:30.199 --> 01:01:34.519 that their cranks, that they're hoaxes, that they're delusional. You know, 842 01:01:34.679 --> 01:01:37.400 they had really backed themselves into a corner and they couldn't get out of it, 843 01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:40.440 and so they just started making up all these excuses. But once again, 844 01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:43.920 behind the scenes, they knew we have to get back into this. 845 01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:49.039 Now let's move on to Vietnam. Because Vietnam the difference, I guess here 846 01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:53.960 would be that the Conon Report had happened. So at this point, now 847 01:01:54.280 --> 01:01:59.920 Blue Book has been closed. You know, they they've had their report from 848 01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:02.840 see you the University of Colorado, where they've said, you know, there's 849 01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:07.320 no scientific evidence here. We we got to close this stuff down. As 850 01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:09.280 they closed it all down. But then you get into Vietnam and you have 851 01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:16.639 accounts there also, right, the stories that we got into in Vietnam that 852 01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:22.119 we looked into very strange and they're unlike any other of the stories in the 853 01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:25.760 book. And I think it's because of the nature of the war itself. 854 01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:30.360 It wasn't the conventional war, it wasn't that there was no front lines. 855 01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:36.679 It was basically a war where we went in with massive force, and it 856 01:02:36.800 --> 01:02:39.400 was a helicopter war. We put our soldiers in helicopters, land in enemy 857 01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:43.639 territory and try to kill more of them than they killed the bus because there 858 01:02:43.719 --> 01:02:46.599 was a body count which was going to determine the score of who won this 859 01:02:46.719 --> 01:02:51.000 war. Of course it didn't go that way, but that's the that's the 860 01:02:51.639 --> 01:02:55.480 strategy they tried to use. Plus, you were only there for a year. 861 01:02:55.559 --> 01:02:58.920 You could you could go. If you could make it those three hundred 862 01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:01.079 and sixty five days, then you were out. You were free. You 863 01:03:01.159 --> 01:03:07.360 know. There was not that morale there was there were bad morale problems. 864 01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:12.039 There was not that the screed of core that people had in World War two. 865 01:03:12.159 --> 01:03:15.280 So and there was frankly a lot of drug use. So if you 866 01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:17.960 combine all those things together and to this kind of a negative aspect of the 867 01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:22.280 war. Every war is negative, but this is particularly negative. It just 868 01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:25.360 seems like that's a strange situation to put people in. So the so the 869 01:03:27.079 --> 01:03:30.400 reports a week from Vietnam are very strange. And I'll give you a few 870 01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:37.639 examples. There's one story in the book about this gentleman who was on a 871 01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:40.280 helicopters a crew member of a helicopter. They went on one of these zombed 872 01:03:40.280 --> 01:03:44.360 assaults where they land a lot of helicopters on an nelz and go and try 873 01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:49.920 to engage the enemy, and his helicopter land in the landing zone was high 874 01:03:50.039 --> 01:03:52.840 grass, and between the heat of the day, the heat of the helicops, 875 01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:55.719 and the fact that the Commists troops were shooting at them, a grass 876 01:03:55.760 --> 01:04:00.679 fire broke out. So they're landing basically in the middle of grass fire, 877 01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:04.239 and the helicopter behind them caught on fire. So his crew chief told him 878 01:04:04.360 --> 01:04:06.920 go back and help these guys. He's a fire extinguisher, and go back 879 01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:11.360 and help him. He runs, he's unon he runs back to the helicopter. 880 01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:15.360 By the time he gets there, they've solved their problem and they're taking 881 01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:17.400 off. So now he's out in the middle of this field. He's so 882 01:04:17.440 --> 01:04:20.480 oriented, he has no weapon. He's in the middle of a firefight, 883 01:04:20.599 --> 01:04:25.159 in the middle of a grass fire. So in the middle of all that, 884 01:04:25.960 --> 01:04:30.960 a Communist soldier appears and is about to shoot him, and before that 885 01:04:30.119 --> 01:04:34.639 can happen, the communist soldier himself is shot by something and the American turns 886 01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:39.480 around. In what he sways he saw was this eight foot giant, you 887 01:04:39.559 --> 01:04:42.599 know, in a uniform but not an American unipont h and a helmet on, 888 01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:45.679 had some kind of a weapon. He had killed this Communist soldier, 889 01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:49.599 and the American just you know, took that opportunity to find his helicopter, 890 01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:53.360 jump back on and get out of there. And as they were flying off, 891 01:04:53.960 --> 01:04:56.840 he could see the dead Communist soldier, but no sign of this giant. 892 01:04:57.320 --> 01:05:00.199 It's a very strange story, but you know, we had the put 893 01:05:00.239 --> 01:05:03.599 it in there because it really kind of gives you the flavor of these stories 894 01:05:03.639 --> 01:05:09.239 that we got from the Vietnam War. Another one, real quick was had 895 01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:12.360 to do with there was a lot of CIA activity in the world in Vietnam. 896 01:05:12.519 --> 01:05:16.599 So there's this one story where this CIA hit team had infiltrated into Vietnam. 897 01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:20.920 They're an assassination mission. They carried out the mission. They were coming 898 01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:25.840 back to their point where the helicopter was going to take them out. Some 899 01:05:25.960 --> 01:05:29.400 Climateist soldiers got on their trail. There's a running gun battle. They get 900 01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:31.239 to this area where there's two hills. The Americans hide on one hill, 901 01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:35.800 the Communists going to this other hill and a firefight stots. Out of the 902 01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:40.119 blue comes this object. The Communists probably thought it was the helicopter come and 903 01:05:40.199 --> 01:05:43.280 picking up the CIA team, but it turns out to be a flying saucer. 904 01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:46.119 They fire on it. The flying sauce fires back at them, and 905 01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:49.800 suddenly there's no more Communist fire. The flying sauce, that takes off at 906 01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:55.119 tremendous speed, goes out to the ocean. The CIA team waits a little 907 01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:57.760 while, then they go over to the next hill and they find all the 908 01:05:57.840 --> 01:06:02.039 Communist soldiers, you know, basically evaporated or very little left of them. 909 01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:06.400 Their helicopter coms picks them up. They go back to their base and they 910 01:06:06.519 --> 01:06:11.599 tell their superiors about their mission, but also what happened with the flying saucer. 911 01:06:12.039 --> 01:06:15.760 They are then brought to an interrogation center given some kind of a drug, 912 01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:18.079 almost like an amnesia drug. The person who told this story, for 913 01:06:18.199 --> 01:06:21.440 whatever reason, had no effect on him. He could remember what the other 914 01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:26.679 members of his team couldn't. He soon got out of the military, m 915 01:06:26.760 --> 01:06:30.599 got out of the CIA, moved to Alaska. Years later, he became 916 01:06:30.639 --> 01:06:32.199 a fisherman. He was out in his boat with his wife and the same 917 01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:39.079 ufo that he saw over Vietnam that day appeared above his boat, and the 918 01:06:39.119 --> 01:06:42.320 way he took it was, this is how I can close this chapter in 919 01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:45.000 my life. The ufo stayed there for a little while and then took off, 920 01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:46.840 and that's how he looked at it. But once again, it's a 921 01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:50.159 very strange story. There's no other stories in the book like anything like that. 922 01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:55.119 Just for some reason, the stories that came from Vietnam were just really 923 01:06:55.239 --> 01:07:00.639 really weird. That is so strange, and what it reminds me it kind 924 01:07:00.639 --> 01:07:04.480 of harkens back to which we'll get into, because you're during your book the 925 01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:13.199 ancient stories and kind of the biblical stories of you know, the God smiting 926 01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:18.800 our enemies and all of these stories of the the Middle Ages. So and 927 01:07:18.920 --> 01:07:26.440 it's interesting that Vietnam had that tone, right, you're right there. We 928 01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:30.800 have a couple of stories in the book about Alexander the Great in three twelve 929 01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:35.000 BC. He was, you know, he was in the in the process 930 01:07:35.079 --> 01:07:39.840 of conquering the noble world back then, and he had come to this river 931 01:07:40.480 --> 01:07:45.079 strategic river crossing, and his army was made up of many troops but also 932 01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:48.519 cavalry with usses and war elephants, They're about to go across this river when 933 01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:55.719 these as they described as flying shields up here and buzzed the army to the 934 01:07:55.760 --> 01:07:58.800 point where they scared the animals, and the animals would not go across the 935 01:07:58.920 --> 01:08:03.199 river. So there's a case where it seems like the UFOs were trying to 936 01:08:03.280 --> 01:08:05.760 interfere with what he was doing. But then a couple of years later, 937 01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:11.440 he was laying siege to the city of Tire, which is off of present 938 01:08:11.519 --> 01:08:14.760 day Lebanon and was actually a city that was built out in a harbor, 939 01:08:15.400 --> 01:08:19.279 and Alexander had surrounded it and his troops were building a causeway out to it 940 01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:24.079 so they could attack it. And just as they completed this causeway, as 941 01:08:24.119 --> 01:08:27.920 the story goes, the shield showed up again. One of them fired a 942 01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:32.680 bolt of something, knocked down the wall and allowed Alexander's troops to invade the 943 01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:39.840 city into and to take it. So, yes that they have like biblical 944 01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:45.720 connotations to them, But I have to say that of the seventy or episodes 945 01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:50.600 that we have in the book, only a handful have tell about the UFOs 946 01:08:53.039 --> 01:08:56.279 interfering, let's say, directly, in what we are doing. The vast 947 01:08:56.359 --> 01:09:00.159 majority of them. The stories are just these UFOs foo fighters would if you 948 01:09:00.199 --> 01:09:01.960 want to call them, depending on the time period, just watching us, 949 01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:10.119 observing us as we go to wall right right, which is it seems extremely 950 01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:15.199 rare in UFO reports with this sort of choosing sides or anything. So it's 951 01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:20.079 interesting that we had these during Vietnam. Now, you know, speaking of 952 01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:26.039 kind of it also has ancient connotations because these wars are in the Middle East 953 01:09:26.079 --> 01:09:33.399 and Babylonia and you call it over the Garden of Eden, but the Middle 954 01:09:33.399 --> 01:09:38.399 East, and of course are wars there. Now. I have actually had 955 01:09:38.880 --> 01:09:45.520 We've I've had a few stories from soldiers and Iraq and some UFO sightings and 956 01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:49.319 actually I've read a couple that were similar to this that you know, they 957 01:09:50.159 --> 01:09:55.279 UFOs came and beamed everybody, all the bad guys. Have you had that 958 01:09:55.520 --> 01:09:59.560 sort of thing? What sort of sightings did you did you retrieve from that? 959 01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:04.720 When we were putting the book together, it just seemed, well, 960 01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:11.520 we started in nineteen oh nine with the scar Ships of Flap in England and 961 01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:15.640 we brought it up to right after the end of the First Gulf War, 962 01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:19.640 so we are literally spanning the twentieth century. So we didn't get into the 963 01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:25.239 invasion of Iranq and we did not get into the war in Afghanistan. But 964 01:10:25.520 --> 01:10:30.199 in the First Golf War in nineteen ninety one, if you remember, Saddam 965 01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:33.920 Hussein invade Kuwait in the summer of nineteen ninety and then there was this six 966 01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:39.000 months of where we were continually building up our troops and then the war itself 967 01:10:39.039 --> 01:10:42.680 started in January of nineteen ninety one. Well, during that six month build 968 01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:46.239 up, of five months build up, there were many many reports of UFOs, 969 01:10:46.319 --> 01:10:49.439 not just over the Persian Open, over the entire Middle East. And 970 01:10:50.680 --> 01:10:55.239 once again, is it because there were more eyes looking to the sky? 971 01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:58.439 Is it because there are more airplanes flying around because we're in this, you 972 01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:00.319 know, getting ready to wasit? Choi? But they were. We have 973 01:11:00.680 --> 01:11:05.920 stories about sightings in Egypt and Jordan and Israel and Oversaudi Arabia and then the 974 01:11:05.960 --> 01:11:10.439 Persian Golf and so on. And then when the war itself started, and 975 01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:15.560 we have this story about how a UFO came down on a four ships in 976 01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:19.600 the in the Persian Gulf, a British ship and three American ships and it 977 01:11:19.680 --> 01:11:24.680 came solo that they fired on it. And there what people say, is 978 01:11:24.760 --> 01:11:27.720 you know in a war you shoot first and ask questions later. They just 979 01:11:27.760 --> 01:11:30.800 thought it was some kind of an enemy. Later on in the war, 980 01:11:30.279 --> 01:11:35.960 we had another story where four F sixteen's were going on a bombing mission to 981 01:11:36.039 --> 01:11:42.560 Bagdad at night and they are early morning and they spotted UFO. One of 982 01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:47.079 the four F sixteens peeled off and intercepted it. As the story goes, 983 01:11:47.199 --> 01:11:51.439 the UFO shot at the F sixteen, and the F sixteen shot back and 984 01:11:51.640 --> 01:11:57.720 shot it down and it crashed in the Saudi Rabin Desert. People were there 985 01:11:58.359 --> 01:12:02.239 saw the wreckage before the American milli terry showed up to get them out of 986 01:12:02.319 --> 01:12:06.640 the area, and supposedly they packed it up in crates and flew it back 987 01:12:06.640 --> 01:12:11.159 to the United States. And then, maybe the most intriguing story that we 988 01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:15.039 kept running into, and we saw it so many times that we felt we 989 01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:17.399 had to put in the book, was after the First Gulf War and before 990 01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:21.159 the invasion of Iraq, there was this kind of undeclared war between Iraq and 991 01:12:21.199 --> 01:12:26.560 the United States where there was a no fly zone over Iraq and US planes 992 01:12:26.640 --> 01:12:30.680 used to patrol over Iraq every day for years. Every once in a while, 993 01:12:30.720 --> 01:12:33.760 they would fire on one of Saddam Hussein's anti aircraft batteries, but they 994 01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:39.159 were just basically degrading his anti aircraft system. Well, in the middle of 995 01:12:39.239 --> 01:12:44.600 all this, as the story goes, the supposedly the Iraqi anti aircraft people 996 01:12:44.960 --> 01:12:50.479 shot down a UFO and his people recovered it, brought it to what is 997 01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:58.079 considered Iraq's Area fifty one, and supposedly reverse engineered it. From that reverse 998 01:12:58.159 --> 01:13:02.199 engineering made some fantastic weapons. And if you want to believe the people who 999 01:13:03.279 --> 01:13:08.920 were reporting this story, that was the WMD that we went in to look 1000 01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:13.119 for in the invasion by Iraq. Now, and on one hand, it 1001 01:13:13.239 --> 01:13:16.319 maybe it makes a little sense because we didn't find any nuclear weapons, we 1002 01:13:16.399 --> 01:13:20.039 didn't find any biological weapons. In fact, we knew he probably didn't have 1003 01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:26.119 those things because the UN was crawling all over Iraq for ten years looking for 1004 01:13:26.239 --> 01:13:30.720 those things and never found them. So was the US military looking for a 1005 01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:35.520 WMD that was reverse engineered from a crash UFO that Saddam Hussein had recovered. 1006 01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:40.800 It'd be a pretty wild story, it would be a pretty history changing story. 1007 01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:44.119 But that story is out there, so we felt that we should put 1008 01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:46.920 in the book so we did. Yeah, very interesting, interesting theory. 1009 01:13:47.720 --> 01:13:50.199 And I guess before we get off the worst and I kind of ask you 1010 01:13:50.399 --> 01:13:58.079 some wrap up questions. We'll go back to the beginning at least of America 1011 01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:01.800 and the American Revolution, and you even have some signing reports from that war. 1012 01:14:03.199 --> 01:14:06.439 Well, once again, you know, we after did all the research 1013 01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:11.279 and we had to distilled the number of stories to put in the book down 1014 01:14:11.319 --> 01:14:15.760 to a reasonable number. We came upon this story, which again was too 1015 01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:20.000 good not to put. And then what it was was a report that during 1016 01:14:20.119 --> 01:14:25.279 Valley Forge, at probably the lowest point of the American Revolution, where George 1017 01:14:25.359 --> 01:14:29.319 Wasshton and the continent at the Lami was spending the winter in Valley Forge, 1018 01:14:29.359 --> 01:14:33.239 they were almost out of food, water, even things to build fires with. 1019 01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:39.159 They became friendly with an Indian tribe that they called the Green Skins, 1020 01:14:39.760 --> 01:14:44.920 and these people gave them supplies of food and helped them get through the winter. 1021 01:14:45.079 --> 01:14:48.600 And it was reported that these people lived in a lodge that was circular, 1022 01:14:49.279 --> 01:14:53.479 that was sometimes there and sometimes not. It's how they put it, 1023 01:14:53.840 --> 01:14:56.920 and that has led some people to believe that, you know, these people 1024 01:14:57.239 --> 01:15:03.479 might have been occupants of UFO, helping out George Washington once again, kind 1025 01:15:03.520 --> 01:15:06.600 of an outlanda story. It would be a history changing event if it was 1026 01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:11.079 true. But when you come upon a story like that, it's just too 1027 01:15:11.159 --> 01:15:16.079 good not to put in. Yeah, and it's yeah, it's well regardless, 1028 01:15:16.199 --> 01:15:21.960 you know, I think it's important and just the whole sociological mythological site, 1029 01:15:23.079 --> 01:15:27.560 you know, to record this stuff so we know it's a part of 1030 01:15:27.600 --> 01:15:32.079 our history. It is. You're right, one question getting into kind of 1031 01:15:32.119 --> 01:15:35.560 the overall you know. I know some of these people you had to talk 1032 01:15:35.640 --> 01:15:42.840 with or work with, like to refrain from using the phrase UFO and they 1033 01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:46.399 use UAP and I identified aerial phenomena because they feel there's a lot of baggage 1034 01:15:46.840 --> 01:15:51.119 with the term UFO. I know you used UFOs in your book, you 1035 01:15:51.199 --> 01:15:55.239 know, did you run across that and what is your opinion of that debate? 1036 01:15:56.479 --> 01:16:00.439 Well, I think you know, we used UFOs because I think everyone 1037 01:16:00.800 --> 01:16:04.119 you know, kind of identify they know immediately what UFO when they see those 1038 01:16:04.199 --> 01:16:08.359 three letters in a book or a document, they know what we're talking about. 1039 01:16:09.439 --> 01:16:12.039 I think it was Rupelt who came up. In fact, they know 1040 01:16:12.239 --> 01:16:15.319 it was he who came up with that term because he wanted some kind of 1041 01:16:15.319 --> 01:16:19.119 an umbrella term to take into account all these different shape, sizes and things 1042 01:16:19.159 --> 01:16:23.640 that people were seeing before that. It was flying sauces before that, you 1043 01:16:23.720 --> 01:16:26.159 know, it was who fighters before that, it was a number of other 1044 01:16:26.880 --> 01:16:30.560 strange things. But I didn't really run into it that much. But you 1045 01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:32.800 know, if we had, you know, I think you have to stick 1046 01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:35.880 with let people know, and there's going to be debates on everything, but 1047 01:16:36.479 --> 01:16:41.560 just so as not to confuse people, we just used We tried to use 1048 01:16:41.760 --> 01:16:45.319 UFOs from the point where Rupet had come up with the term, and before 1049 01:16:45.399 --> 01:16:50.000 that we used flying sauce or an unidentified aerial object or whatever. But once 1050 01:16:50.079 --> 01:16:53.960 he had come up with the term, you know, we felt pretty comfortable 1051 01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:57.800 just using it. Yeah, I agree. I mean, if you tell 1052 01:16:57.920 --> 01:17:00.399 someone another term anyway, they're going to ask, well, what are you 1053 01:17:00.439 --> 01:17:02.840 talking about, and you're gonna have to say, well, UFO right exactly, 1054 01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:05.199 So you can't get around it. And I think it's you know, 1055 01:17:05.319 --> 01:17:11.079 and it has some baggage, but books like yours and being brave enough to 1056 01:17:11.119 --> 01:17:15.479 get out there and face that rad kill factor will hopefully eventually change that. 1057 01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:19.159 Well, you know, I look at myself, I don't look at myself 1058 01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:24.199 as a UFO researcher. I look at myself as a reporter, and I'm 1059 01:17:24.319 --> 01:17:27.840 kind of new to this, and I thought it would be an interested and 1060 01:17:28.199 --> 01:17:32.079 interesting and kind of entertaining subject for people to pick up the book and read 1061 01:17:32.119 --> 01:17:35.439 it and kind of make their own decision that the you know, after finishing 1062 01:17:35.520 --> 01:17:39.279 it. But you know, in the course of doing that, I ran 1063 01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:42.560 into a lot of UFO researchers. And I say this in the book, 1064 01:17:42.600 --> 01:17:45.760 and it's for everyone. It's for people like you. It's for people like 1065 01:17:45.319 --> 01:17:49.319 George norri Is, for Keete Chester and Jerry Clark and these people. These 1066 01:17:49.359 --> 01:17:54.000 are the people who are keeping this going and as you say, in always 1067 01:17:54.039 --> 01:17:58.319 facing a wall of criticism to a certain degree. But you know, years 1068 01:17:58.319 --> 01:18:00.600 ago, one hundreds of years ago, there were people who thought the world 1069 01:18:00.760 --> 01:18:03.119 was round, where most people thought it was flat, and it was just 1070 01:18:03.279 --> 01:18:06.239 it was those people who kept on pushing this, pushing this, and it 1071 01:18:06.279 --> 01:18:09.720 turns out they were right. I have a feeling that this is how it's 1072 01:18:09.760 --> 01:18:13.319 going to be with the UFO researches, is that they're the ones who are 1073 01:18:13.359 --> 01:18:15.760 in the forefront of this. They're the ones who were taking the hits, 1074 01:18:15.840 --> 01:18:18.119 taking them ridicule. Some day they're going to be proved right, And they're 1075 01:18:18.159 --> 01:18:23.199 really the heroes of these of this thing. They're the people who saw the 1076 01:18:23.279 --> 01:18:26.439 light first, and who knows, in ten years, maybe tomorrow, ten 1077 01:18:26.520 --> 01:18:29.840 years, one hundred years, people look back on them and say, you 1078 01:18:29.880 --> 01:18:31.000 know, if there wasn't for them, we would not have found the answer 1079 01:18:31.079 --> 01:18:35.479 to this. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's a positive way to look 1080 01:18:35.479 --> 01:18:39.880 at it, and I hope that does ring true at some point the answers 1081 01:18:39.960 --> 01:18:43.800 come out. But what do you think, speaking of answers and the people 1082 01:18:43.880 --> 01:18:47.239 holding those answers after doing all this work, you know, you've kind of 1083 01:18:47.359 --> 01:18:51.399 had at the beginning of this show talked about what the military may or might 1084 01:18:51.680 --> 01:18:56.760 may not know. How much do you think they do know? You're probably 1085 01:18:56.800 --> 01:19:00.239 familiar with John Alexander and his view that they don't know a whole lot, 1086 01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:03.640 or at least they're too incompetent to really put the pieces together so that they 1087 01:19:03.680 --> 01:19:10.520 don't want to admit that. What's your feeling, Well, I'm exactly fifty 1088 01:19:10.520 --> 01:19:15.119 to fifty on that. Okay. On one hand, there's a lot of 1089 01:19:15.199 --> 01:19:19.239 evidence that would lead you to believe that they know what they are and that 1090 01:19:19.520 --> 01:19:25.800 they are keeping that keeping covering it up and don't want us to know. 1091 01:19:27.239 --> 01:19:30.399 On the other hand, just as you mentioned, there's a lot of evidence 1092 01:19:30.479 --> 01:19:34.119 that says they have no idea what they are and they're covering that up as 1093 01:19:34.159 --> 01:19:39.199 well. The way that they did a lot of their investigations, would they 1094 01:19:39.239 --> 01:19:43.399 would they would? There was never an open, broad minded investigation. It 1095 01:19:43.520 --> 01:19:48.000 was always couched with the idea that we're going to study UFOs to see if 1096 01:19:48.000 --> 01:19:53.159 they're a threat to our national security, and they could say at the end 1097 01:19:53.199 --> 01:19:56.840 of these quote quote investigations, we have found that they are not a threat 1098 01:19:56.880 --> 01:20:00.199 to our national security. Therefore they don't exist. Okay, Now, what 1099 01:20:00.279 --> 01:20:03.279 would you rather? Would you rather the military know what they are and we're 1100 01:20:03.359 --> 01:20:08.399 keeping this huge secret from us, a secret that would span all of human 1101 01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:12.600 history? Or would you rather that they don't know what they are and they're 1102 01:20:12.800 --> 01:20:15.439 powerless to know what they are? And that's what they're keeping secrets from, 1103 01:20:15.520 --> 01:20:19.199 is that they're powerless to protect us from something that they don't want it is. 1104 01:20:19.560 --> 01:20:23.680 I will tell you this, I am one hundred percent sure that they 1105 01:20:23.800 --> 01:20:27.359 know more about it than they're telling us. There's evidence in the book from 1106 01:20:27.399 --> 01:20:31.319 people like Gordon Cooper, who was one of the original Mercury seven astronauts, 1107 01:20:31.319 --> 01:20:35.039 who had two UFO encounters in his career before he became an astronaut, and 1108 01:20:35.279 --> 01:20:38.760 one of them which a film crew that he was in charge of, took 1109 01:20:38.880 --> 01:20:43.439 film moving film in photographs of a UFO landing at Edwards Air Force Base at 1110 01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:48.840 the end of the fifties. Those photographs went somewhere, these stories about UFOs 1111 01:20:48.920 --> 01:20:54.199 trailing ships in World War Two in the Pacific, every major ship has a 1112 01:20:54.359 --> 01:20:58.479 ship's photographer. If a UFO is tailing a ship for four hours, did 1113 01:20:58.520 --> 01:21:00.880 you be sure that photographers up this taking pictures of them? Where are those 1114 01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:05.680 pictures? The military knows more about them than they're letting us know. I 1115 01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:10.960 know that much for a fact. The problem is is what do they know? 1116 01:21:11.159 --> 01:21:12.880 Do they know what they are or they don't know what they are? 1117 01:21:13.119 --> 01:21:16.239 Either way, it's a little bit frightening. But are we ever going to 1118 01:21:16.319 --> 01:21:19.159 know? That's the problem, right, And I think you pose a good, 1119 01:21:19.319 --> 01:21:23.760 good question, a couple of good questions, are we ever going to 1120 01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:30.159 know? But also the idea that if Alexander, let's say, is correct, 1121 01:21:30.399 --> 01:21:33.840 and all of this data has been collected, but because they're so afraid 1122 01:21:33.960 --> 01:21:40.840 to look at it or to coalesce a group to look at it. That's 1123 01:21:40.880 --> 01:21:46.159 so tragic that that would be the case and frightening that sort of incompetence would 1124 01:21:46.199 --> 01:21:49.760 happen where they have this information in front of them, but they refuse to 1125 01:21:49.800 --> 01:21:55.760 look at it because they're too afraid. Are these goofy silly reasons. Well, 1126 01:21:56.479 --> 01:21:59.159 that could very possibly be the case. Yeah, you know, I 1127 01:21:59.239 --> 01:22:03.000 mean the from the beginning is that the US military were the people designated to 1128 01:22:03.119 --> 01:22:06.079 investigate this thing, and they're the worst people to investigate it. I mean, 1129 01:22:06.119 --> 01:22:09.760 the only people I can think it would be worse would be politicians. 1130 01:22:10.039 --> 01:22:13.000 Yeah, Okay, this is something that should be turned over to the scientific 1131 01:22:13.079 --> 01:22:16.600 community. It should be funded and have them look into it using you know, 1132 01:22:16.760 --> 01:22:20.640 basic scientific methods. And I think if that happens, and other UFO 1133 01:22:20.880 --> 01:22:24.399 researchers that I quote in the book agree, if that happens, will be 1134 01:22:24.479 --> 01:22:28.319 that much closer to figuring out what this is. I agree with that statement 1135 01:22:28.399 --> 01:22:31.760 one hundred percent. You can't trust politics or military. They lie to each 1136 01:22:31.760 --> 01:22:35.479 other, they lie about everything, everything secret. You can't trust anything. 1137 01:22:35.520 --> 01:22:39.960 Comfort to that, I agree, And then Finally, you know, I 1138 01:22:40.079 --> 01:22:44.479 wonder if I know, sometimes putting these stories together and putting all of this 1139 01:22:44.680 --> 01:22:48.479 analysis together, you ask some questions about, you know, who are these 1140 01:22:48.520 --> 01:22:51.840 guys looking at us, the guys flying these UFOs, and who they are, 1141 01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:57.119 And sometimes when you're putting together so many stories, you kind of feel 1142 01:22:57.199 --> 01:22:59.720 like maybe you're getting a sense of these guys. Do you feel you have 1143 01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:03.520 a sense at all of who is flying these things, what their motives are, 1144 01:23:03.560 --> 01:23:09.039 and what they're doing. Yes, I've come up with a theory. 1145 01:23:09.680 --> 01:23:14.319 I think what they are is I think that they're time travelers from our future 1146 01:23:14.840 --> 01:23:19.880 and they're coming back here to watch history as it's happening. That's interesting, 1147 01:23:20.800 --> 01:23:24.600 you know, I used to ask people. I used to or this always. 1148 01:23:24.720 --> 01:23:28.039 This is a question that I always think about that I'll ask people do 1149 01:23:28.119 --> 01:23:30.680 you believe that we'll ever travel in time? One day? And if they 1150 01:23:30.720 --> 01:23:35.560 say yes, that's almost akin to you saying there are probably time travelers here 1151 01:23:35.640 --> 01:23:40.439 right now. Well, they could be, they could very well be. 1152 01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:44.039 That means that's possible. Einstein, you know, proved that you can travel 1153 01:23:44.079 --> 01:23:46.399 in time. It's fact we're traveling time all the time. We're traveling in 1154 01:23:46.479 --> 01:23:49.640 time right now, you and I and everyone on this planet is traveling towards 1155 01:23:49.680 --> 01:23:55.319 the future. But you know, the question that keeps coming keep kept coming 1156 01:23:55.399 --> 01:24:00.479 back to me was if you have the technology to create a new flying aerial 1157 01:24:00.560 --> 01:24:06.479 machine that or an unidentified aerial machine that can go seven ten thousand miles an 1158 01:24:06.479 --> 01:24:09.920 hour, that can go so fast it goes in the blink of an eye. 1159 01:24:10.479 --> 01:24:14.479 Okay, then why are you riding one hundred feet off the wing of 1160 01:24:14.560 --> 01:24:16.840 a B seventeen bomber as it's dropping its bombs under Lynn? Why are you 1161 01:24:16.960 --> 01:24:23.159 doing that unless you wanted to see something up close. And that's the only 1162 01:24:23.239 --> 01:24:26.520 conclusion that I could come to is that, you know, they might be 1163 01:24:26.880 --> 01:24:30.800 historians coming back. They might be tourists coming back, but I get a 1164 01:24:30.840 --> 01:24:33.840 feeling that and especially the fact that they think spiked during times of war were 1165 01:24:33.880 --> 01:24:38.399 preparing for war. I just have a feeling there they're people who are coming 1166 01:24:38.479 --> 01:24:43.039 back from our future to see history being made. I mean, if we 1167 01:24:43.119 --> 01:24:45.880 had the option, wouldn't you do it? I would do it. Go 1168 01:24:45.000 --> 01:24:47.760 back and see how the Civil War was fought, or the Revolutionary Wall was 1169 01:24:47.760 --> 01:24:50.760 fought, of the Trojan Wall was fought. I mean, you know who 1170 01:24:50.800 --> 01:24:56.119 wouldn't take an advantage or something like that. That's what I believe after dealing 1171 01:24:56.199 --> 01:25:00.439 with this for about three years. You know, there's no evidence their little 1172 01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:02.560 Green men from us, and there's no more evidence of that than if they're 1173 01:25:02.600 --> 01:25:06.279 try and travels. My theory is it's the people from our future who have 1174 01:25:06.399 --> 01:25:12.199 come back and they're seeing history as it's being made. That's very interesting. 1175 01:25:12.479 --> 01:25:17.000 I mean, did you run across and I have in the past military personnel 1176 01:25:17.039 --> 01:25:26.159 that you had talked to feeling that they had an abduction experience. Not an 1177 01:25:26.199 --> 01:25:32.960 abduction experience, but I will say that I had conversations with someone who was 1178 01:25:36.119 --> 01:25:41.640 an employee of let's say, an unnamed three letter government agency. Okay, 1179 01:25:42.239 --> 01:25:46.399 a very nice person helped me in some ways with the book, but at 1180 01:25:46.439 --> 01:25:50.760 every turn tried to steer me in the direction of saying that what people are 1181 01:25:50.800 --> 01:25:59.600 seeing SS seventy one recon planes, stealth fighters, media's venus, seagulls, 1182 01:26:00.039 --> 01:26:04.079 everything. They would not admit to me that there might be something there and 1183 01:26:04.319 --> 01:26:09.520 and would make up stories about you know, remulins and you know all this 1184 01:26:09.640 --> 01:26:13.439 stuff. Okay, that's that's one of the people that I know, and 1185 01:26:13.760 --> 01:26:17.000 you know, the intelligence services almost seemed to go out of their way to 1186 01:26:17.439 --> 01:26:24.680 get me to think that these things weren't real. That's about as close as 1187 01:26:24.680 --> 01:26:28.720 I can answer to the question you asked. But I thought that was unusual. 1188 01:26:29.359 --> 01:26:30.880 Yeah, that is very strange. And I've heard that before too, 1189 01:26:31.479 --> 01:26:33.960 and it makes you wonder what those guys really know. Why are they so 1190 01:26:34.119 --> 01:26:39.479 adamant and making you believe that exactly? And this person was very and they 1191 01:26:39.560 --> 01:26:42.439 were nice about it, and I knew exactly what they I was doing and 1192 01:26:42.920 --> 01:26:45.399 read a lot of what I was doing before the book ever came out, 1193 01:26:45.920 --> 01:26:48.399 and I thought I presented a lot of compelling evidence, you know, basically 1194 01:26:48.520 --> 01:26:53.159 reporting on what others had already reported. But but you know, they would 1195 01:26:53.239 --> 01:26:55.640 not back down. They kept saying, oh no, you know, those 1196 01:26:56.079 --> 01:26:59.640 UFOs they saw were over those silos, those ICVM so that was just an 1197 01:26:59.720 --> 01:27:02.119 Essa seventy one flying over and you know, and I know that is not 1198 01:27:02.239 --> 01:27:06.720 the case, right. I guess my final question real quick just popped into 1199 01:27:06.800 --> 01:27:11.920 my mind. From one to ten, how confident of you are you on 1200 01:27:12.079 --> 01:27:19.520 your future visitor theory? I'm going to say about a nine. Oh wow, 1201 01:27:19.760 --> 01:27:24.359 so pretty confident. But it's a good one. Well, thank you 1202 01:27:24.640 --> 01:27:28.399 so much. Like I said, I'm excited. I haven't finished a book, 1203 01:27:28.439 --> 01:27:30.760 but I'm going to write a review on it for our magazine. It's 1204 01:27:30.840 --> 01:27:34.760 always real exciting when new authors come out, and we've had a few lately 1205 01:27:35.920 --> 01:27:44.239 writing books, and especially a great author who's done some really interesting, you 1206 01:27:44.359 --> 01:27:46.520 know, research to put together some great stories. Thank you so much for 1207 01:27:46.680 --> 01:27:49.880 your work and for being on the show. Well, thanks a lot for 1208 01:27:49.920 --> 01:27:54.119 having me. Had a good time, and thanks very much. Oh do 1209 01:27:54.199 --> 01:27:56.960 you have a website, by the way, we could all right, yeah, 1210 01:27:57.319 --> 01:28:01.640 you can go. People can go to Mac Malone do and there'll be 1211 01:28:02.239 --> 01:28:06.119 links there to order the book and to see some of the other stuff that 1212 01:28:06.640 --> 01:28:12.760 we've done. The book came out yesterday and it can be ordered through Amazon 1213 01:28:12.840 --> 01:28:16.000 dot com, Bondsanoble dot com, or it's put out by Penguin Books, 1214 01:28:16.359 --> 01:28:21.159 so it's at every bookstore across the country starting yesterday. All right, great, 1215 01:28:21.319 --> 01:28:26.399 thank you again, and I wish you much success. Okay, thanks 1216 01:28:26.479 --> 01:28:30.119 very much for having me. I really appreciate it. Thanks all right, 1217 01:28:30.279 --> 01:28:33.279 thank you, Mac. And it is a great read, such a very 1218 01:28:33.479 --> 01:28:39.399 interesting book, So go check that out. Wars or UFOs during wartime and 1219 01:28:40.319 --> 01:28:42.880 next week. Join us. We're going to have another great guest. Be 1220 01:28:42.960 --> 01:28:46.680 sure to check Openminds, dot tv, hand UFO Daily News for the latest 1221 01:28:47.039 --> 01:28:49.439 news. A lot of the news we talked at the beginning of the show. 1222 01:28:49.760 --> 01:28:55.439 You can see pictures and videos and everything at our websites. Talk to 1223 01:28:55.520 --> 01:29:18.199 you later. People to