WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:05.400 Deal. Shelly Effect is sponsored by Wall Street, Window dot com and listeners 2 00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:15.039 like you, Shayeah and nowise in our media check a twenty fifth day of 3 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:19.239 April twenty twenty four, allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar, 4 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:23.839 and this is the o'celly effect. You probably listening to us via podcast, 5 00:00:23.879 --> 00:00:27.839 But we are live on a Thursday here just after eight pm, a few 6 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:31.879 minutes late, about five minutes late, going to air eight pm Eastern time 7 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:37.240 on that twenty fifth day of April twenty twenty four on Ocelli dot com and 8 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:41.240 the streams and all that good stuff. Anyway, here we go. What 9 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:44.759 is on our minds tonight? Well, it could be a lot about news. 10 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:49.039 I wanted to do news shows lately, but I gotta be honest with 11 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:53.119 you. It's depressing a lot of it. Okay, it's a lot of 12 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:57.359 the same. It's become homogenized. And I'm wondering if that has something to 13 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:02.119 do with the delivery system as opposed to the content. Is it the content 14 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.599 or is it the delivery system? Does one have influence over the other. 15 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:10.519 There's a lot to be said there. Mike Swanson is with me Wallstreet, 16 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:14.319 Window dot Com, be in the no go to Wallstreet Window dot com sponsor 17 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:17.640 of this show. Indeed, he is the author of the War State, 18 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:21.879 the author of Why the Vietnam War, the author of actually a handful of 19 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:25.680 books, but those who I highly recommend. But he's the author of a 20 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:27.519 bunch of books. You can check him out on Amazon, or you could 21 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:30.519 click one of the book links on the website at Ocelli dot com where you 22 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.200 see the War States, that redbook with Ike on the front cover giving his 23 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:41.719 iconic speech regarding the military industrial complex, the Farewell Address and all that. 24 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:49.159 Anyway Mike writes about these things, is currently writing another piece about the Vietnam 25 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:53.120 War, because Why the Vietnam War is just the first in a series of 26 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:56.439 what was initially planned as three volumes. I don't know if that's still three 27 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:00.599 volumes, but I guess we shall see. And we're gonna hear from Mike 28 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:05.280 not only about those things in the very near future, but tonight we're going 29 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:08.439 to talk about the delivery of news anyway. Mike, how you doing. 30 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:15.520 I'm doing pretty good. Yeah. I sent you a bunch of links to 31 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:24.800 various articles about what's going on with news websites in general. And I'm experiencing 32 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:31.479 all this myself. But I've been on the internet for almost twenty five years 33 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:38.719 now with websites and various iterations, and have seen different trends come and go. 34 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:44.240 Isn't it closer to thirty years Mike, because weren't you on the interwebs, 35 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:46.960 if you will, like in the mid nineties too. Oh yeah, 36 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:50.080 sure, so it's like thirty years now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 37 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:53.479 I mean, really, you go back to before the Internet and people had 38 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:59.199 bulletin boards and we're calling in places. Well exactly, okay, the bullets 39 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:01.800 I've been doing it for a long time. Well, and let's let's just 40 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:07.000 go over that, right. So, so we have witnessed as a spectators 41 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:13.000 but also as participants in news delivery and information delivery right in various ways. 42 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:15.840 I mean, you're an author. I'm working on a book now, which, 43 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:17.360 by the way, my co author and I are going back and forth 44 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:23.000 over a draft right now. But I mean you've actually published stuff in that 45 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:28.000 way. You've published stuff online Wall Street Window. It's not just about Wall 46 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.000 Street. You do a lot of geopolitics, a lot of current culture clashes, 47 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:35.719 things that are going on in the world, et cetera. And here's 48 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:42.560 the deal. We've watched local news basically collapse. We watched a Facebook become 49 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:46.879 people's news feeds because they were just, you know, totally involved in the 50 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.919 late night talk shows and the comedy guys out there giving them the news mainly. 51 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:57.560 Or let me talk about those two topics as a way to please talk 52 00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:00.960 to talk about what's going on. So people, you know, they may 53 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:04.639 especially the Facebook thing because people are use it, you know. But I 54 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:14.159 was supposed to something about the local news thing. So I've considered. I 55 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:17.040 haven't done it. I don't know if I'm gonna do it, but I've 56 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:25.680 considered trying to start a local news business with a physical newspaper that would be 57 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:31.759 free and make money from advertisers. In the local news industry, the newspaper 58 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:41.000 subscription business has been collapsing for decades and everyone knows that. But one of 59 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.560 the things that's happened, and I was looking at this locally, and I 60 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:46.720 actually looked at the paper where you live, because I was curiously the same 61 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:54.279 things happening. So where I live, there's two newspapers, and one is 62 00:04:54.399 --> 00:05:01.279 owned by a private company of a family that's from this area. It is 63 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:06.040 like a dozen or so papers, and they have a stable business. They 64 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:11.959 haven't lost subscribers. They have about ten thousand, Okay, they have, 65 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:15.680 you know, so just really quickly, Look, there's a couple of different 66 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:19.079 ways to go at this. And there used to be very localized newspapers that 67 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:23.160 could be just for a town or just for a set of towns or a 68 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:27.360 county, and that would be what they would cover mainly, and they might 69 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:30.800 cover some national news, etc. But mainly if you wanted your real local 70 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:33.399 news, you wanted to find out what was going on with the school district, 71 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:39.199 you wanted to find out the scheduling of your local facilities. All those 72 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:42.959 kinds of things used to be printed in those local papers. Right. So 73 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:47.639 nowadays a lot of people started getting informed on the Facebook pages and stuff like 74 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:51.120 that. Oh well, yeah, there might be a state about the local 75 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:55.519 I want to tell you. The other thing is there might be a state 76 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:58.759 version or a bigger version, right Like, Okay, so where I am 77 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:00.800 now in Jersey, I could have easily laid it out for you too. 78 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:06.079 But in Georgia you might say, Okay, I've got this little tiny local 79 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:13.319 paper here. But also there's like the Atlanta State Constitution paper which is statewide, 80 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.600 but then again, at least focuses on Georgia, and there might be 81 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:23.079 a section from my area of Georgia. Right, Okay, so there were 82 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:26.360 the two ways to go at it. But these things have all virtually been 83 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:31.000 bought up by bigger conglomerates mostly right. And yeah, occasionally there's a larger 84 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:35.439 family owned concern like you said or whatever, but most of those seem to 85 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:40.560 have collapsed as well. Now you still have one in Virginia. But you 86 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:43.240 took a look at what was going on here locally, what did you find? 87 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:48.040 So the thing is, there's in the county I live in, there's 88 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:54.240 a stable local one I mentioned. The neighboring county has a stable local one 89 00:06:54.319 --> 00:07:00.160 too. However, the one there's another paper that's been bought up one of 90 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:08.319 these conglomerates. And the conglomerates, the Lee Enterprises, owns the one where 91 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:12.279 I live. There's a company called a Clatchy that owns the one where you 92 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:17.199 live, and the paper the Lee Enterprise Company. For the past couple of 93 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:21.800 years, all of these companies in clatch included. What they've been doing is 94 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:28.959 downsizing and cutting you know, the staff, well, get reporters local offices 95 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:35.439 cutting to and they and they turn off the readers because they're getting you know, 96 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:41.480 they're seeing their newspaper degrade in quality, and then they're losing subscribers that 97 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:47.040 way. Now, what these companies have said and lee enterprises of public company. 98 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:51.839 So they make these statements on earnings calls and their reports which I've looked 99 00:07:51.879 --> 00:08:00.000 at, and they're losing money and their market capitalization. I mean this company 100 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:05.120 and it's like one hundred newspapers and it's not worth one hundred million dollars. 101 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:11.439 I mean, it's like a penny stock. So it's a troubled company. 102 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:16.040 But what they have been telling people over the past couple of years is that 103 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:22.959 print isn't profitable or prints dying, people don't want print, and we're gonna 104 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:30.360 move everyone to online subscriptions and that's the future. And they have had a 105 00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:33.960 drive in doing that. Yeah, so is now hold on because not only 106 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:37.840 have these little papers done that, but even like the big monsters like the 107 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.639 New York Times have gone to the hey, which I always find funny, 108 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:46.399 pay for independent journalism, The New York Times. That's hilarious, right, 109 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.159 independent journalism. This big conglomerate is out there saying, pay us a couple 110 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.360 dollars a month, otherwise we're only gonna let you read one, two, 111 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:58.240 three articles a month. Right, And they do that to you, even 112 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.159 with the big name papers, right, everybody seemed to go to the online 113 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:07.159 subscription model and pay us a couple dollars a month so you can access the 114 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:09.559 newspaper. Then you say, well, screw it, I'll go buy the 115 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.279 print one. There are no print papers, or there's very few, i 116 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:18.200 should say. So we're in a new age where there's a digital one. 117 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:22.279 Nobody's buying that. There's no print papers. So where are people getting their 118 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:28.600 news? And you said those articles? What what's happening is that these companies, 119 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:39.440 there's this startling story I saw that said that these this isn't the New 120 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:43.960 York Times and Post, but these other companies like Lee Enterprises, mclatch and 121 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:50.759 so forth. Yeah, that they are having a churn. They had a 122 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:56.120 boom and getting people online in the past couple of years just because they're moving, 123 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:01.480 you know, there's something new that they're doing. But now they've discovering 124 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:09.799 that the online subscribers are unsubscribing within eight months. It's called churn. Now, 125 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:20.120 I've was in an online subscription business myself with a website for seventeen eighteen 126 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:26.120 years. I mean that's where I that was my main that was my one 127 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:31.960 of my main businesses. And I mean I obsessively was studying that, going 128 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.879 to conferences about it. I know all about the industry, and this is 129 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:43.000 financial publishing starting the seventies of publishing newsletters. Then moved it moved online way 130 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:48.000 before these newspapers did. Now I was going internet marketing conferences and on and 131 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:52.480 on on. So really correctly tell reference just for everybody's reference point. Is 132 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:56.000 you sent me this article which was printed in December of twenty twenty three on 133 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:01.480 a local news initiative, and it says the title of the article is churning 134 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:05.080 toward disaster. And you guys will see that in the show notes, or 135 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:07.759 if you're on ochelly dot com, it's in the chat room already. I've 136 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:11.279 already posted the link there if you want to go ahead and reference the article 137 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:15.799 that describes this. But as you said, independently, you were studying this 138 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.519 because you were in this sort of business as well. I was in the 139 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:22.720 business, right you know, and I had a large for a few years 140 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:28.000 before I met you. It was large, it was sizeable. I had 141 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.559 an email list of one hundred thousand people on it, right, I mean 142 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.840 in two thousand and six to twenty ten or so. And even that email 143 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:41.279 list quite frankly, because look, every time people wanted to negotiate with me 144 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:46.039 about, you know, purchasing pieces of what I'm doing, your email list 145 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:50.600 is a commodity. And you have a gigantic email list because you literally just 146 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:54.559 say that to say, I know what I'm talking about. And I could 147 00:11:54.559 --> 00:12:03.159 tell you that an eight months churn is awful, I mean awful. And 148 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:07.960 internet marketing, which is like bizop and sleazy. They would trick people into 149 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:13.919 subscribing to something and it would and their churn was in ninety days. And 150 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:18.879 that's what I'm saying, the lowest quality customer, lowest quality product. You 151 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:24.240 have a ninety day churn. And the standard in the financial publishing industry when 152 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:30.840 I was in it was about twelve months. So nine months is just awful. 153 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.279 So when I read that, I was like, how can it be 154 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:39.519 so bad? On one hand, what that tells me is that those newspapers, 155 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:45.080 including and I looked at the well these newspapers with a nine month churn 156 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:50.159 that that had a sudden surge in like two years in the you know, 157 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:54.559 within the past couple of years, within I would say, two, three, 158 00:12:54.679 --> 00:13:00.960 four years from now, they're gonna be almost doomed at that rate. 159 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:07.360 Because it's a different business than say financial publishing. It's a worldwide, national 160 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:11.919 wide thing. So if you lose someone, you know, there's someone else's 161 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:15.360 you know, if I lose someone in Montana, well there's someone interested in 162 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.399 Detroit with this local news thing. If they lose, you know, they 163 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.960 don't they have a limited pool of new customers. You know, they don't 164 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.559 really have a pool of new customers. Okay, what you're saying is that 165 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.559 when you have a concern, Okay, when you have a concern, let 166 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:37.360 me tell you why it's happening. So I went and looked at the those 167 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:43.159 two local papers that are stable and compare them to what these other papers are 168 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:52.519 doing. And it's it's so obvious to me from what I you know, 169 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:58.159 know, my, my, what I know from this business. Sure, 170 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:03.360 So what is the what is the comparison to the difference are charging sixty? 171 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:07.440 How does he get the stable? Good? Huh? Oh? How is 172 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:11.279 it that you get the stable they're not losing people. Yeah, how how 173 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:13.600 is that happening? How is that happening as compared to these other ones? 174 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:18.159 Uh that? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, the ones that are stable, 175 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:24.279 you know, in the two in my area, right, they're charging an 176 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:30.240 annual fee of like sixty one sixty seven dollars, the ones like thirty five 177 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:37.039 okay, okay, and then the Lee Enterprise papers are all charging fifteen a 178 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:39.120 month, right, And I went and looked at the McClatchy one where you 179 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:43.840 live, and it's the same same sort of fifteen ninety nine or something like 180 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:48.279 that. So they're charging, you know, multiply that bout twelve. They're 181 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:52.159 you know, they're charging it's like one hundred and fifty dollars a year. 182 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:56.519 Yeah, they're charging about one hundred and fifty a year with these little monthly 183 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:00.480 charges. And I know, you know from had when I was stone all 184 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:03.240 this stuff you're about. You don't want to charge someone if you can help 185 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:07.279 it, every single month. You're better off to charging once a year if 186 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:11.399 you have to a quarterly, and then and then if you are going to 187 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:18.200 charge a monthly, you want to have an option that entices them to pay 188 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:24.080 annually, so you may say fifteen ninety nine a month and then offer seventy 189 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.960 five a year, and most people will take the seventy five or at least 190 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.919 half, and then you're you're you're kind of pushing people actually to spend. 191 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:35.279 You know, you're going to create a more stable business. So these people 192 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.879 don't they don't know that kind of information, they don't know what they're doing, 193 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:43.919 and it's just I mean, it's just crazy. So, I mean, 194 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:48.559 I figured I was reading about this last year and this is one of 195 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:52.879 the what I what I believe is that that Lee Enterprises paper where I live. 196 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.360 It's that because they report earnings, I can see that they've lost a 197 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:03.480 huge number of people in twelve months, and at that rate, they're they're 198 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:07.559 going to be gone or they're going to be a ghost paper. So I 199 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.919 was thinking, well, if they're gone, and it's kind of an opportunity 200 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.919 to start something on my own. But I don't know if I got the 201 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:19.919 energy to do it or try to fight that battle. But I just wanted 202 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:26.080 to tell you, this is the local news thing, and I can see 203 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:30.639 another collapse coming because these kind of companies own so many newspapers. In the 204 00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:41.159 next couple of years now, Facebook is more symptomatic of all the other the 205 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:47.360 other news stories I sent you, and it's directly affecting me and you and 206 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:53.440 you know, other content creators because of why it's happening so well. Look, 207 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:59.320 it's a different circumstance because for a while there people were blaming Facebook and 208 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:03.359 like the social media outlets because now you could get your headlines through them and 209 00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:07.240 you didn't have to subscribe. But if all you wanted was the headlines, 210 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:10.440 I mean, you could search online and get them yourself. I mean, 211 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:15.279 there's a reason why Google is a profitable company still and continues to be profitable, 212 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.920 right, which I always find bizarre. That's something that started as a 213 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:26.799 search engine. Effectively, is this huge company now? Right? The alphabet 214 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.960 alphabet's doing pretty well, right, I mean financially, sure, yeah, 215 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.519 financially it's doing well. But it also dominates, whether people know it or 216 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:38.799 not, it dominates a lot of the flow of information. Oh yeah, 217 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:42.880 you so in a way, here's the thing. Yeah, it ends up 218 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:47.839 being profitable and not everything. Okay, And when you're looking at monthly subscriptions 219 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.000 for newspaper, I mean think about this just in your own heads, right, 220 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:55.799 If you're gonna pay for whatever name your local paper, right, You're 221 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:59.839 gonna pay almost the same amount to get Netflix as you do your local paper 222 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.920 every month. Yeah, something's off there. I mean, you get a 223 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.079 lot more out of Netflix, you know what I mean than you do out 224 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.839 of the local paper that way, when meanwhile, two things. One, 225 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.440 there's either a free news app right that does alert you to stories in your 226 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:19.680 area, or you don't need the news app necessarily at that kind of price 227 00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:23.640 anyway, Like you said, a lot better if you just pay a singular 228 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.319 fee once a year, at least you'll have steady customers. You'll have steady 229 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:32.440 well the news app, like the new news break is one. We talked 230 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:37.519 about it before. It's kind of a huge threat to these companies. I'm 231 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:42.160 sure it's hurting them, Oh yeah, because a lot of the content that 232 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:51.960 these publishers publish and are charging people for are simply pressure releases that they're copy 233 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:57.039 and pasting. Yeah uh. And and those pressure releases are available for free 234 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:06.200 on the news apps. And then there's people that are you know, getting 235 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:10.640 paid a small amount of money per article, like say five dollars, when 236 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:15.920 they you know, anyone can write on there, and they're creating news too, 237 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:22.759 and they can copy and paste the press release or reword it and write 238 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:29.359 all kinds of stuff. And there's I'm sure people you know in India wherever 239 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:33.880 writing articles about where you live. Yeah, exactly, because letter you know, 240 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.799 I could pick up and say, okay, I'm gonna write for the 241 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:40.960 Michigan Concern and I could just write all about it. I've never even been 242 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.680 there. I don't even know where the streets are, nothing, But anyway, 243 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:48.160 it's gotten to a weird business where there's a disconnect. Plus there are 244 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:52.200 the people that only really want the headlines anyway, which you're already shared on 245 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:56.079 whatever the hell app they're on, or whatever the hell social media thing they're 246 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.440 on anyway, right, and then you got guys like me who you know, 247 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.319 podcasters and podcasters. There's local podcasts by the way, where it's like 248 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:10.160 it's just about your area and stuff like that, right, and you know 249 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:14.200 we're giving most of those away for free. So I mean, there's tons 250 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:18.599 of free content out there that if somebody really is interested, they don't got 251 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:22.160 to pay the local paper twelve bucks a month or whatever, right, they 252 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:29.000 can get it elsewhere. But social media is weird too because now that's peeling 253 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:32.039 back. I mean, yes, Facebook has fallen out of favor anyway. 254 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:37.000 Elon Musk, in my mind, has destroyed Twitter, even though Twitter is 255 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:41.119 now becoming something else because now there's radio shows on Twitter. There's you know, 256 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.799 different programs on there, like it's almost like it's a TV video platform. 257 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:51.519 Everything Now Twitter is right communication of all sorts. The only thing he 258 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.319 doesn't have is his own version of PayPal on there, I think yet, 259 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.079 But I don't know what groc is. Do you know what groc is? 260 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:02.960 I'm not sure it's some new thing on and ever since Musk took it over 261 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:07.240 and started monetizing the blue check marks and stuff. Sure, he's still got 262 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:11.160 a financial model in his hands and it is massive, but seems like people 263 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.599 are not really getting their information from there either, according to these things. 264 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:18.640 I'll tell you what else is weird is something that survived for the longest time 265 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:25.839 is the Drudge Report, which he never updated his website, like it looked 266 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:30.640 the same from nineteen ninety six or whatever till like, you know, two 267 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.079 years ago when I was looking at it, it still looked the same. 268 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:37.559 You know, the Drudge Report. Oh sure, I yeh, that's still 269 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:40.960 go to it. Yeah, But now, from twenty twenty to twenty twenty 270 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.319 four, this weird shift happened. Do you think it had anything to do, 271 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:48.559 by the way, with the change in society because of the lockdown and 272 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.440 now you know, people doing things more remotely and the rise of the food 273 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:56.720 delivery and all that kind of stuff. Do you think that that had anything 274 00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:02.039 to do with it? Because during that time period, all of these social 275 00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:07.680 media sites where people were seemingly turning for all of their news and information lost 276 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:10.519 tons of traffic. I don't know where that traffic went, do you. 277 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:29.319 Well, So Google and Facebook and Twitter forget about Twitter, it's got its 278 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:34.039 own problems, but they're simply setting less traffic to news websites period. So 279 00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:42.720 Facebook, for example, after the Trumpell action, you know, there's this 280 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:48.839 whole mania for about two or three years about fake news and all these stories 281 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:56.480 about all these websites that sprout up that found a way that they could get 282 00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:02.319 all this traffic right from Facebook, you know, by writing articles that got 283 00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:06.880 people's attention, and there are people making a living doing that, and there's 284 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:17.039 a huge backlash. The Democrats in Washington really in Facebook racked to that by 285 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:23.480 kicking a lot of these websites off and so forth. But they also about 286 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:30.519 a year and a half ago basically said we're just gonna start downgrading news in 287 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:37.880 general in the Facebook feed, and then really starting a year ago, they 288 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:45.759 accelerated that process to now they're hardly setting in traffic at all to news websites. 289 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:51.960 And if you have a Facebook account, if you load it up, 290 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.799 I mean, this is at least what I'm seeing. And I should be 291 00:23:55.799 --> 00:24:00.680 seeing news sites and news stories because will I read them. Know, I'm 292 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:04.160 a consumer of news, but I don't see that in my Facebook feed at 293 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:10.160 all. And what they said they were going to do, and I believe 294 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:15.559 it's what they're doing, because it seems to be what I'm seeing is engineer 295 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:26.759 the Facebook feed so that it's more algorithmic driven to show you content that sort 296 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:33.000 of like the way TikTok works. It may not be things not people you're 297 00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:37.880 following or pages that you're following, but stuff that they think you'll react to 298 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:44.440 or will keep you on the site, you know, as long as possible 299 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:49.519 or turning as much as possible. So it's become really algorithmic driven. And 300 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:56.400 I'm sure there's people that are just creating content for that algorithm. Now, 301 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:03.039 what I noticed, and I've heard others comment on that say the same thing. 302 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.559 So I don't think it's just happening to me. I'll ask you when 303 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:11.400 I say this. But what I notice, and I'm looking at loading it 304 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:21.559 up now, is I'm seeing less content on Facebook from people that are my 305 00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:25.200 my so you know, your friends list, or that are pages that I 306 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:30.039 even follow. Like, for instance, I'm scrolling down. The first thing 307 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:36.839 is something about star Trek from a page I don't believe, I follow something 308 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:44.920 some strange page, another star Trek thing, then something called another page I 309 00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:51.640 don't follow, heavy and classic rock. Now here's a local advertisement. Finally 310 00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:56.440 a picture from someone that's in my face, you know, Facebook friend. 311 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:03.200 And now I'm going through again another These are pages I'm not following, right, 312 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.559 No, I get it all. It's just none of these people, 313 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.640 and it's all the stuff I'm seeing. None of it's about news. It's 314 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:15.960 all cultural stuff like movies. Yeah, it's like mi Amazon. It's like 315 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.559 my Amazon feed used to be Okay, since you like this, then you'll 316 00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:23.680 probably like this. Uh, And that's pretty much what they're doing on there. 317 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:26.920 I would guarantee you. If I open up Facebook, I'm gonna get 318 00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:30.960 some Star Trek. I'll probably get some other stuff about TV shows that are 319 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:36.079 similar to TV shows that I that I watch or whatever, but not necessarily 320 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.599 from the pages I follow or the people I follow, And in fact, 321 00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:42.839 unless somebody sends me a direct message, my attention is not being pulled to 322 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:48.480 say like you like it used to be, or even JP satilly you puts 323 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:52.039 out Yeah, I don't see JP stuff, and I'm sure he's posting every 324 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:56.319 day. I'm seeing something right now. I don't follow this. I mean 325 00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:00.119 literally, it's a picture of a stake in the pages called homemade cooking. 326 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:07.880 But you know so now, will you looking up groceries or cooking or anything 327 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:12.160 on Amazon or on Google recently? Well, because that's what I'm discovering, 328 00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:17.759 is that it's more about your connectivity to like your search engines and the stuff 329 00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:22.319 you're interested in, like that, like food. If you're interested in food 330 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:26.000 for one day, they turn around and they start feeding you stuff about food. 331 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.160 If you're looking for a TV show or you look up something you know 332 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:33.440 to try and find out when they're going to put out you know, something 333 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.880 new or whatever, you'll get that even if you look it up off of 334 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:41.279 that site, it comes back around into the algorithm. But like you said, 335 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:47.519 it's mostly cultural stuff and it's not the local stuff anymore. There was 336 00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:51.640 a time too that Facebook was very localized, right where they would show you, 337 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:55.880 Okay, you're interested in food, here's a local restaurant. I suspect 338 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:02.240 and I heard someone else say this. I mean that they're theorizing that. 339 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:08.119 What's probably happening is that real people, you know, are not posting as 340 00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:14.279 much on there as they used to at all, and so Facebook is filling 341 00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:21.119 the gap with all this other stuff. And and but at the same it's 342 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:25.880 probably actually discouraged, you know, because you know, it's probably even driving 343 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:29.799 fewer people to comment. But they look at it like, yeah, I'm 344 00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:33.720 sure it works at keeping people looking at the stuff or entertained. But only 345 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:38.039 but only for the big corporate stuff. Because look, as an independent producer 346 00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.799 of content, right, every time I release a podcast, uh, the 347 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:48.000 post goes on Facebook automatically from one of my sites, and then uh, 348 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:51.359 you know, then other things feed onto Facebook and tell people I put out 349 00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:55.680 a new podcast, I'm doing a live show. Whatever. Nobody sees it 350 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:59.359 it looks like to me, it goes out there, and people used to 351 00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.640 engage with it. And I used to see traffic come to the website from 352 00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:08.119 Facebook. No more, it's gone. Facebook traffic is gone. I mean 353 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.359 I can get I can see them. I have a Facebook page for Wall 354 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:18.720 Street Window. Eleven thousand followers, right, eleven thousand likes. Okay, 355 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:22.759 Now, every time you post a new article on Wall Street Window, doesn't 356 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.000 it post to Facebook automatically for you? No, I don't have it. 357 00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:30.640 You don't have that set up. Okay, sorry, but okay, but 358 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:33.880 I posted one today, you know, eleven thousand followers, right, one 359 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:38.240 hundred and twenty two people saw it. Yeah, that's insane. How is 360 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:41.720 it You have eleven thousand people say I'm interested in this, I want to 361 00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:47.359 follow this, and you've only got one hundred engaged. I mean even phone 362 00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:49.359 callers do better than that. When you've got a radio station, I mean, 363 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:52.640 and they tell you, you know, one out of one hundred calls 364 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.319 there basically, right, So that's crazy though, one hundred people out of 365 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:03.319 eleven thousand. Yeah. Yet, no, you see there's something odd there 366 00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.440 where your stuff is not being put under people's noses. So even if they're 367 00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:12.359 following your page, even if they're a fan of your page. Because you're 368 00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:18.160 not the larger corporate entity, you're not getting put into those feeds. So 369 00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:21.720 when you go on to the feed or the news story, because you notice 370 00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:23.519 how they have the thing where it's like you can put this on your regular 371 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:30.160 feed or your news feed or whatever. You know, I think nobody else 372 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.759 is seeing it when you put it on the news feed because even though you 373 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:37.559 know, theoretically that should pop up for people that are your friends, for 374 00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:41.359 people that follow you, because some people that are you know, not your 375 00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:45.599 friends, do follow you on Facebook, right, they should see that. 376 00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:48.960 It should just come up in their feed somewhere. But if it does, 377 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:52.240 it must come up way down in their feed, because I don't think anybody's 378 00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:57.359 seeing these anymore on Facebook. I mean it's almost, yeah, you see 379 00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:02.039 nothing I'm posting, right, And like I said, at least a few 380 00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:06.400 times a week, right, a radio show posts. On top of that, 381 00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:08.079 I do go there say something else, I put out another thing, 382 00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:14.400 Hey, you know, donate to the network, whatever. And I'm starting 383 00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.319 to feel like I shouldn't bother because I don't think anybody's seeing it really unless 384 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:23.160 they very purposely, go to my little radio show group on purpose, go 385 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:26.519 and visit that. And here's the thing. When they land on the Facebook 386 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.839 site, they're encouraged to go to these other places, like you said, 387 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.119 Star Trek or whatever. If you start clicking on that, you'll probably go 388 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.359 through a maze and you'll be you know, Okay, what's the new show. 389 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:41.720 Hey, there's some news regarding this, there's a new DVD release, 390 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:47.119 whatever, And an hour later you've been on Star Trek. Now you know 391 00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:51.319 what I mean. You'll never like even bother to go look at another interest 392 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:55.319 or see what your friends are doing. Unless you decide to message me directly, 393 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.359 you're probably not gonna hear from me, you know. And you and 394 00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:02.079 I we follow each other, you know. If you say something on there 395 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:05.880 and I see it, I read it. It used to be anyway I 396 00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:08.119 would go, I'd comment on it. You and I used to both comment 397 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:13.440 on JP stilly stuff because it was really brilliant, like little mini articles. 398 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.839 Right, but when was the last time JP popped up on your page? 399 00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:22.039 It's been a long time. Let me see time. Yeah, he posted 400 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:28.880 something six hours ago to two posts three posts today. Okay, but did 401 00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:31.119 it come up today. I didn't see a single one to It didn't come 402 00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:35.240 up in your feet. No. See, and this is a guy that 403 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.119 you and I would definitely like to read, we like to follow, we 404 00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:39.640 like to hear what he has to say, right, I mean, you 405 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:44.039 know, I'm not just kissing up to JP here, but I'm just saying 406 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:45.480 he's a guy that we would look at, right, I mean, let's 407 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:49.880 see what his new article is outside of him. Mean, you and I 408 00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:53.400 both read the Rundown right when he publishes a new article a lot of times 409 00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:57.960 if it's even remotely interesting a topic wise, you and I go read it 410 00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:02.599 on a lot of different websites when we know it's happening. But are we 411 00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:07.680 getting informed that he's publishing an article. I don't think so anymore, because 412 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.440 unless I see it in my email, I don't know he's publishing anymore. 413 00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.599 I mean, do you, Well I get the emails. No, you 414 00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:17.119 get the emails, but you don't see it on your Facebook. Well you're 415 00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:21.680 not using Twitter anymore, right, You're you're not even using Twitter anymore? 416 00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:25.279 Right? No, so, but you still go to Facebook. I know 417 00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:29.519 you do that, and yeah, yeah I do twice a day. How 418 00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:31.160 was that going for your local stuff, because for a while there you were 419 00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:36.599 following like the local councils and stuff on there is any of that in your 420 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:39.720 feed? Well that's an example of all this too. So I still do 421 00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:43.960 that, but I don't see it doesn't appear in my feed. I have 422 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.240 to go to these pages. Right, it looked for myselves. But that's 423 00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:50.599 what I was saying about my radio show. Unless you're going to the you 424 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:53.680 know, the coalition of a factors group on Facebook, you're not seeing my 425 00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:58.400 radio shows getting published. You're not seeing I mean, I got people literally 426 00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:00.960 every once in a while sending me a mess SAIDs going, do you still 427 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:05.039 do a show? And meanwhile they're following me, they're in the group, 428 00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.159 they're they're they they follow the page I have and they don't know that I'm 429 00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:14.800 still doing a show. I mean, it's it's bizarre. So anyway, 430 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:17.239 if you're an independent content creator, that's where you're at. But again, 431 00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:21.960 if you're a larger corporate entity, I'm sure you know McDonald's is still getting 432 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:25.800 their ads done and grub Hub is getting advertising on there, and I'm sure 433 00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:30.960 you know, like you said, the big the big companies. I mean, 434 00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:34.360 uh, do you have an ad for what do you call it? 435 00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:37.280 Paramount plus? I mean, you know, yeah, you're probably getting all 436 00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.599 that stuff still, but are you getting any of the independent content people? 437 00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:47.480 Probably not? Right, Well, I'm saying it's not just independent content people, 438 00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:54.039 but the national news outlets too aren't getting well ultimately, yeah, but 439 00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:58.280 ultimately that's what I'm getting to. Look, you don't have the independent content 440 00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:00.599 creators. No, you don't have the local news coming up. It's not 441 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:04.800 being fed to you at all, is it? Okay? What about the 442 00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:07.960 big stories? So are you seeing stuff about the conflict in the Middle East? 443 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:10.880 Are you seeing stuff about politics? I mean, because I know you 444 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.519 follow politics a bit, are you seeing stuff about that in your feed? 445 00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:22.880 Nope? No? So what is there? You know what I mean? 446 00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:29.079 Like, well, I'm going through it now. And a picture of I 447 00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:31.920 mean, this is the kind of crap I'm saying. I mean, I 448 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:39.360 don't know why this is even I don't It's bags of water in a refrigerator, 449 00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:44.920 okay, And it says it's a screen you know, it's one of 450 00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:50.760 these themes, I guess. And it says tired of boiling water every time 451 00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:55.280 you make pasta boil a few gallons at the beginning of the week and freeze 452 00:35:55.280 --> 00:36:06.559 it for later. What is this? Okay, I haven't seen that one, 453 00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:08.159 Mike. I don't know what's on your feed with the boiling water and 454 00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:13.199 all. But okay, I mean, why is that even on there? 455 00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:15.000 I don't know, you know, I don't even know. I guess it's 456 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:20.519 a joke. I don't know. How are you going to use your boiled 457 00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:23.760 water if it's bagged and frozen? What you got to reboil it again, 458 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:30.000 don't you? I mean, okay, this is where we're at, boiling 459 00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:35.440 bags of frozen bags of boiled water. Okay, sure, why not? 460 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.840 But Mike, what does this mean for the delivery of news then? Right? 461 00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:43.920 I mean forget about the quality of the content once again? As I 462 00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:45.079 said, I mean, we could sit and talk about that all day. 463 00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:49.719 What is actually in the news? The news headlines? It's pretty depressing. 464 00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:52.320 What are they doing? They're jamin us with twenty twenty four. They're jamming 465 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:58.360 us with the Trump trial in the broadcast mediums, which, by the way, 466 00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:01.239 you know, did you take note that a guy set himself on fire 467 00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:06.440 outside of the Trump trial? Did you see that last week? So? 468 00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:14.559 I didn't see it. I saw the headline and then uh, actually someone 469 00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:16.239 sent me his manifesto. Did you see that? Yeah? Yeah, of 470 00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:21.320 course I'm on his substack, so because he has a substack. See that's 471 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:25.920 the other question. I have read the manifesto. Yeah, yeah, no, 472 00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:29.800 I read that too. But okay, what I was wondering though, 473 00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:34.719 is did you see that fed to you during that time? Because broadcast news 474 00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:38.079 didn't really cover it. I just saw, I mean saw, I saw 475 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:42.920 the headline somewhere. I don't remember where. I don't really want I don't 476 00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.760 watch the television, no, but you see my But you see. My 477 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.159 point is that something like that happened. You figure that that would have been 478 00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:52.880 shoved right under your nose on these feeds, and it was not. Uh 479 00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:55.719 the guy died, you know, and we talked about it on the Friday 480 00:37:55.719 --> 00:38:00.320 call show. Yeah, he passed away like on Saturday, I think, 481 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:04.679 but we talked about it on the Friday show because I read the manifesto and 482 00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:08.079 really couldn't figure out what his point was, you know, I mean I 483 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:13.039 get his points, I understand, and frankly, most of it is stuff 484 00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:15.239 that I say, Uh, you know, both parties are bull crap and 485 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:20.920 everything else. But but nobody can can explain to me adequately why it is 486 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:23.599 he decided to do this outside of Trump's trial. What was the actual point 487 00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:28.000 he was making? I mean, you know, I couldn't figure that out. 488 00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:31.159 Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I agree with this, but 489 00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:37.599 he was making he I don't believe this is happening, but he I mean, 490 00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:42.199 I've got my own problems with crypto and bitcoin. Yeah, but he 491 00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:50.800 was claiming basically that that crypto market is a conspiracy. Uh uh, what 492 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:54.760 would you call Ponzi scheme? The phrase he used created a bout Peter Teel 493 00:38:55.320 --> 00:39:01.599 and a few other people to create a fascist order. Once it once, 494 00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:04.960 they pump and dump it. Oh No, I get that. No, 495 00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:07.639 I get that. And I also get that he's saying that, you know, 496 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:09.599 both sides of the you know, the political fence, are on the 497 00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:13.800 same team. I get that he was saying that if you read the whole 498 00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.920 manifesto he talks about, you know that here's the worldwide conspiracy that's going on. 499 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:20.519 There's the financial grip that they have on us, all of us, 500 00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.360 et cetera. And I got all that, But what I didn't get is 501 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:28.360 truly, like, what was the point he was making with this display, 502 00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:34.039 you know, I think, yeah, for him to kill himself and and 503 00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:40.400 and not have a clear point you can easily see what it is and forcing 504 00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:45.840 us to guess, I think it's a sign he was mentally ill. Well 505 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:52.920 maybe, but but I would also I told someone, when you study these 506 00:39:52.320 --> 00:40:00.519 topics in general, uh, if you try to figure out like there's some 507 00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:05.599 some things I agreed with what he was saying too, and some things I 508 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:12.599 thought he was wrong, but he certainly thought he was correct and everything he 509 00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:17.559 was saying. And if you try to take these deep politics, look all 510 00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:24.599 that topics and think you can figure it all out exactly who the players are 511 00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:30.519 and exactly what they're doing, you're gonna go crazy. You're almost guaranteed some 512 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:34.400 mental You're guaranteed to get crazy. And you and and you can we can 513 00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:38.719 think or maybe some people have done that, and I mean we can think 514 00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:43.679 of examples. Uh, maybe that what's his name, Michael Rupert maybe did 515 00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:49.599 that, or that Danny Carson was his name, Castellario, Maybe that happened 516 00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:55.400 to him. I mean probably would think of people that that that. Maybe 517 00:40:55.480 --> 00:41:00.480 maybe there's people in the Kennedy case, Well we've seen him exactly seen and 518 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:04.639 known people that if they get deeply enough into you know, the the weeds 519 00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:07.800 on these things long enough, it's almost to guarantee that something happens to them 520 00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:12.840 emotionally or mentally, because it just it breaks you down after a while. 521 00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:20.559 I'd suggest that what a way to metaphor for it is they're trying to figure 522 00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:28.320 out who all the people on the inside are and what they're doing. Well, 523 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:34.440 here's the thing about that. Let's talk about the people on the inside. 524 00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:37.559 And if they do that, try that. Well, first of all, 525 00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:44.079 they know not to do that. Yeah, if you're saying the mafia 526 00:41:44.199 --> 00:41:49.280 or some organized crime group, you know, you're not supposed to run around 527 00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:54.119 and ask what is going on all the time with this person that person. 528 00:41:54.360 --> 00:42:00.559 You're not supposed to ask, you know, every little detail supposed to know. 529 00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:06.400 You're not supposed to do it and not wanted to know everything. And 530 00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:12.480 that's really the people on the inside, I would suggest, no, that's 531 00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:19.760 how they're supposed to do to handle the world that they're in. And those 532 00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:24.719 on the inside who try to figure it all out also go insane, and 533 00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:30.679 that's probably what happened, for example, to James Angleton as one one, 534 00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:35.800 you know, one famous example, when he started, you know, imagining 535 00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:40.800 conspiracies everywhere and this kind of stuff. Eventually you become delusional. So you're 536 00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:45.239 you're figuring that this guy just became delusional and somehow it made sense in his 537 00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:47.440 head to go light himself on fire, even though on the outside he couldn't 538 00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:52.199 even fully explain what the hell that was. Yeah, that's what I think. 539 00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:55.199 Okay, fair enough, But what I'm saying is that that wasn't even 540 00:42:55.239 --> 00:43:00.000 something that came up in people's speeds. You'd figure a couple of years ago 541 00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:04.760 that would have been the viral story, wouldn't it. You know, that 542 00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:09.199 would have been everywhere. And indeed it was like, you know, not 543 00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:14.039 that big a deal. Now this is very much changed. Is all I'm 544 00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:15.840 saying is that what did you What did y'all make of that? When you're 545 00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:19.199 talking Friday, I haven't thought about that. Well, that was it. 546 00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:22.000 I didn't know what to make of it, except that it was like, 547 00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:25.880 it was very strange to me that it wasn't the biggest headline, that nobody 548 00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.440 made the effort to figure out why the hell had happened. It was just 549 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:32.159 sort of like, well, this kind of happened anyway, moving on, 550 00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:38.760 you know, it's it's yeah, yeah, actually I did try to read 551 00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:45.320 a mainstream story about it after I read the manifesto, and it just labeled 552 00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:50.519 him as a conspiracy nut. Right, didn't even bother to tell you what 553 00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:54.159 he wrote it all, Yeah, right, nothing exactly, just he's just 554 00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:59.800 a conspiracy theorist. See. But that's the thing is these very homogenized kind 555 00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:05.920 of like what you get out of Wikipedia now is about the level of information 556 00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:08.880 you get out of the world Wikipedia, you know, and it may be 557 00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:12.320 right, it may not be right, it might be off a little bit. 558 00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.199 The only thing Wikipedia is good for is they pretty quickly adjust. When 559 00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:22.199 somebody dies, they pretty quickly put their date of death on their entry at 560 00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:25.559 Wikipedia. That's about it. Other than that, it's a mess. And 561 00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:31.119 that's the information stream that's out there now. People search it themselves with phrases 562 00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:37.320 and half baked phrases usually, and they just use Google to go get their 563 00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:42.440 information. So nobody wants the local paper anymore. Nobody's using Facebook anymore. 564 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:46.800 People are just griping about their opinions on any social media platform, whatever it 565 00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:51.559 is, whether it's to own the libs or to make their big point or 566 00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:55.719 to try and you know, be an influencer somewhere. That's all they do, 567 00:44:55.960 --> 00:45:00.599 and that's it. It's about your opinion and your world and you don't 568 00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:04.239 have to be connected or informed about it anymore. And it seems to be 569 00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:07.400 the general sort of persuasion. And yet there are people like you and me 570 00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:10.039 who are going, I'd like to be informed and know what's happening in the 571 00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:16.000 world. But where are we to turn at this point? Right? You 572 00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:21.119 know, you can pay a lot of subscriptions and maybe they'll let you access 573 00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:24.400 more than three articles a month or an article a month, you know, 574 00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:28.679 like, like I said, New York Times even does this now where it's 575 00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:30.159 like, you know, oh no, you've already seen an article this month. 576 00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:35.119 Come back you know later, or subscribe pay us a couple dollars a 577 00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:39.360 month. It's amazing to me that even with their advertising revenue, they're still 578 00:45:39.400 --> 00:45:44.639 going after the subscription model. Anyway, It's a very weird time in the 579 00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:50.320 information stream, is all I'm saying. So with the oversaturation and then with 580 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:54.679 the twisting of information via the algorithms, I mean, how are people going 581 00:45:54.719 --> 00:46:00.679 to become informed about things when they want it? You know, think about 582 00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:05.719 this selection process that's coming up, and Okay, Trump's court cases blah blah 583 00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:09.360 blah blah. But outside of that, are people going to be informed about? 584 00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:12.400 You know? Where are people going to do that? Now? Remember 585 00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:15.280 the old days where you might read about what is the candidate's position, what's 586 00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:21.000 going on there? Unless you're going to go to the candidate's websites and read 587 00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:24.039 their platforms for yourself and hope there's a platform on there, where are you 588 00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:28.400 going to learn about that? Even if you wanted to make an educated decision 589 00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.000 about who to vote for, who to support, who's on your side and 590 00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:36.280 who's not. Mike, I mean, is any of this gonna be helpful 591 00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:43.360 or healthy going forward? What do you think? It doesn't seem like it's 592 00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:46.239 gonna get much better, does it. No, it seems like it's degrading 593 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:51.440 and getting worse by the means. So Mike, I know you got to 594 00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:53.320 get going pretty soon, and I'll let you go, that's for sure. 595 00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:57.760 But before you do, how do you want to tie a bow on this? 596 00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:00.960 I mean, the information stream is raging. Social media had its effect, 597 00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:06.199 but seems to be uh, you know, doing something else. Nowadays, 598 00:47:06.679 --> 00:47:12.320 the broadcast news is not informing people. Local news is not informing people. 599 00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:15.599 Print media is is you know, dead? Uh, where are we 600 00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:20.360 at here? What are we gonna do to be informed going forward outside of 601 00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:24.320 going to Wall Street, Window dot com and being informed over there. But 602 00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:28.239 I mean, where are we going to be informed about anything we care about? 603 00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:34.079 What do you think? Well? I mean, I think people are 604 00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:39.079 gonna have to subscribe to things like JP Satilli's news vandal. You know, 605 00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:45.599 they're gonna have to subscribe to sources that they trust to sift through some of 606 00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:51.199 the mess. So we spend an hour a day, you know, looking 607 00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:58.719 at various news websites themselves, which you know or both or something. Yeah, 608 00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:00.079 but the majority of people, A thinkin they're going to sit there and 609 00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:05.000 just take whatever their phone gives them. You know, that's true, and 610 00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:08.199 that's going to be that And I guess they want it all delivered, They 611 00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:12.480 want it all delivered on demand, So you know, make sure you subscribe 612 00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:15.360 to the right stuff. I guess. Huh, Well, unfortunately, you 613 00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:20.440 know that's what people are going to do, and they're going to go and 614 00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:25.400 look for sources that just tell them stories that they want to believe in. 615 00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:30.559 Right, Whether they're true or not, because they just well, ultimately, 616 00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:35.239 that's the greatest problem is that nobody is looking to be informed. All they're 617 00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:40.519 looking for is what verification of their preconception. They want the echo chamber. 618 00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:45.440 They want somebody to tell them the opinion they already have defeed it back to 619 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:49.519 them once again. Which is how some of these places have stayed in business 620 00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:52.960 now for the past ten years, I think is just by telling people what 621 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:55.800 they want to hear over and over again. It doesn't matter if it's really 622 00:48:55.840 --> 00:49:00.920 happening or if it's actual news. It doesn't matter if you being informed about 623 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:04.719 what's going on in the world around you objectively. Uh, They're just going 624 00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:07.800 to feedback to you the things that you want to hear. And that's it. 625 00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:12.639 That's that's the business model. You want to be successful. Find a 626 00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:15.639 group of people that have a shared opinion and feed them that opinion back to 627 00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:19.280 them. I mean, doesn't that seem to be the way of the future 628 00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:23.199 or am I wrong? That's what we're witnessing. But it's also what the 629 00:49:23.239 --> 00:49:31.159 algorithms are doing, you know, yeah, and rewarding and and what's bizarre 630 00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:37.400 is we may be at a point like it just use Facebook as this Facebook 631 00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:44.639 feed as example, where the people are creating using let's say AI tools or 632 00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:52.360 something to create content for the algorithms, and then other people are creating doing 633 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:59.400 the same thing and reaction to that content. So it's now becoming a cycle 634 00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:07.079 of strangeness. It is gonna get worse and worse. It's just the recording 635 00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:09.039 of the echo, and then the recording of the recording of the echo, 636 00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:12.639 and that's all there is to it. And again, it all starts with 637 00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:15.239 your opinion and the thing, the preconceived notion that you want fed to you 638 00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:20.039 in the first place, and the algorithm is waiting to serve you, and 639 00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:22.519 that's all there is to it. Anyways, Mike Swanson, Wallstreet, Window 640 00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:27.079 dot com, do buy his books and do go to his website, because 641 00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:30.920 you know, we're not getting served by the algorithms here. I don't know. 642 00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:34.920 I mean, your books still pop up. If I go to Amazon 643 00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:37.119 and look up another book, your books still pop up and tell me that 644 00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:40.079 I'd be interested in your book, even though I've told Amazon already I have 645 00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:45.320 your books, but they at least try and sell me your books. But 646 00:50:45.400 --> 00:50:50.039 anyway, you know, it is the thing, and we'll be talking about 647 00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:53.679 the Lancer conference coming up this year too, because I hear tell that Mike 648 00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:59.280 might go and might present there. Maybe I'm gonna be there, I'll be 649 00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:01.440 the MC and all that. But anyway, we'll get into that in future 650 00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:06.320 shows. And next week I'm gonna be talking to Carmin Savastano about an article 651 00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:08.519 he's written recently. So Mike, I thank you for doing this with me 652 00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:13.239 once again, and uh, we'll probably get back to it in about two 653 00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:16.599 weeks. Okay, sounds good. You have go excellent Wallstreet Window dot com 654 00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:20.800 be in the no go to Wallstreet, Window dot com, Why the Vietnam 655 00:51:20.840 --> 00:51:23.840 War and also the War State books by Mike Swanson. Yes, I recommend 656 00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:29.360 all that check it out on nochelli dot com. Check it out on Wall 657 00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:47.719 Street Window dot com, Revelation through Conversation, Walls, Window dot dot Gold, 658 00:51:49.639 --> 00:51:57.840 Silver, the stock Market, Wallstreet, Window dott Perhaps you're invested deeply, 659 00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:01.840 Perhaps you're not in deep enough. You're thinking about getting started Wall Street, 660 00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:07.360 Windows dot com, do dot Com. Michael Swanson, the brilliant author 661 00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:12.119 of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many years, and now 662 00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:19.960 he gives you the benefit of his knowledge Wall Street stream window, dott go 663 00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:23.199 there, now go there, now go there now could he was expressed my 664 00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:25.800 caller stools there anyone else who happens to get on the air O Jelley dot 665 00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:30.320 com who not necessarily replied debews little Jelly dot com or jumko' chilly, and 666 00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:32.159 we are not responsible. We're getting stupidity which might need students. Thank you. 667 00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:36.000 This is James Corbet at quarter report dot com and you're listening to the 668 00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:38.440 Ocelly affected o'hlly dot com. Go ahead, caller, I'm inter in the 669 00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:42.400 truth about the Davey assassination. Right Well, what do you want to know? 670 00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:46.480 Dy Baker's wild claim oswal girlfriends he knew Ruby and Barry hands to weapons. 671 00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:50.199 Really, I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't 672 00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:53.199 make me a wagon. But okay, on the Bildy and trying to prevent 673 00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:57.119 the murder of John Kennedy, come on now, has a real effort on 674 00:52:57.239 --> 00:53:02.559 the DAFA assassination relaying. Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her 675 00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:07.280 own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where 676 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:10.840 Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the case. To 677 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:16.320 get at well a different perspective, Let's say you can get Judithbary Baker in 678 00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:22.320 her own words from the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting 679 00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:27.280 doctor Brown at k I A s JFK at aol dot com. It's a 680 00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:32.239 fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims Judith Ary Baker 681 00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:40.880 in her own words dot com Radio Network. In Denial The Secret Wars with 682 00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:47.239 Air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US 683 00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:52.880 covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial rips the 684 00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:57.840 cover off many of them, using new files. It exposes things about the 685 00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:00.880 Bay of Pigs that no one has ever written about before. It shows why 686 00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:05.800 it really failed and why the United States did not earn from it. It 687 00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:10.039 also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations with more success. This 688 00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:15.639 is the book that puts what some want to deny into the light. In 689 00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:22.760 Denial, Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks Larry Hancock. For more information, 690 00:54:22.039 --> 00:54:25.840 go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your copy of In 691 00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:31.599 Denial at Amazon dot com in digital or physical foh Chili dot com. The 692 00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:37.559 War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put 693 00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:42.760 the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times and reveals never before published information 694 00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:46.320 about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he 695 00:54:46.360 --> 00:54:51.960 had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context 696 00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:54.880 of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. Before World 697 00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:59.679 War II, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that 698 00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:04.599 fought, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only 699 00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:07.239 wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the 700 00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:12.599 island armed with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile 701 00:55:12.679 --> 00:55:16.000 launchers. Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they 702 00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:21.840 wanted to go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why 703 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:24.440 and we'll show you what President Kennedy was up against. For more information, 704 00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:30.599 the Warstate dot com. Do you like history, real history that you were 705 00:55:30.760 --> 00:55:36.679 never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in nation Building in 706 00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:43.400 Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with new documentation never seen before that'll open 707 00:55:43.480 --> 00:55:47.519 your eyes to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War Nuclear 708 00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:54.119 Bombs in Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. 709 00:55:54.480 --> 00:56:00.199 Get your copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author 710 00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:13.519 Mike Swanson. Going to Chuck O'Kelley, you're shock for Shelley. You know 711 00:56:13.559 --> 00:56:16.159 what, sharkra Shelley, you are about doing. Margin upon the Rick Rusa. 712 00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:19.880 The eyes of the world out upon you. The