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Is it history or just a grand
story? Tiptoe on the type rote between

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fact and fairy tale. Watch out
for id laws playing puppet master with the

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past. The latest slavery had its
perts, according to their history remix.

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Conservative publishers are obsessed with alternate history. Founding fathers are rock star no flaws

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allowed. But it turns out Founders
weren't all fans of the Enlightenment, but

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conservatives twist history to fit their narrative. Robert E. Lee practically a sight.

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Why does this matter? Bad history
seale, especially in conservative market.

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It's not just a political struggle,
it's a battle over reality itself. And

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this story is from NBC News by
Mike Lofgren on November fourth, twenty twenty

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three. I will I'll just say
I have a lot of interesting things to

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say, so I'll let you guys
get to it first. Hellen, what

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do you have to say about this? Oh? I love some historical revisionis

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people you know that want to rely
on people's feelings and their lack of education

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to kind of share pick history to
fit a narrative. It's disgusting and I

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hate to quote Ben Shiperial, but
facts don't care about your feelings. I

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hate to do that, but it's
true. And this is just another things

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that people that are racist and also
are uncomfortable that white people did bad dates

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in the past, and instead of
looking at those things like rid in the

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eye, they want to twist historical
fact to pretend that the United States was

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always a Christian nation and we never
did anything wrong, and it's just been

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a perfect utopia. I mean,
like we're all living in a utopia right

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now, right everybody. I mean, you know, that's exactly what's happening.

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So it's a little bit of a
problem. And I think what the

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a lot of the issue is people
like Mardon, who will go into a

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little bit later, is wanting to
spend these narratives not because he thinks he

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found new evidence, you know,
he just the reason is to play to

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a group of people that are they
want to believe in this fairy tale about

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America, and it gets twisted up
into religion, into this Christian nationalistic shit

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cake, and it's not good for
anybody. So I probably have a couple

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of questions, but I'm going to
send it over to Scott over here.

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Sure thing. Sure thing. And
first of all, when I when I

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was reading this article that the tone
I actually found a little bit off putting.

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It seemed quite it was from what
was at Salon dot com. Uh

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it was. It seemed quite partisan, even more so than I would have

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expected. And so not that I
was disagreeing with what they were saying,

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and they were, they were,
you know, making their points and so

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forth, but just the tone of
it, it put me on the defensive.

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And and I don't even say that
that's necessarily a bad thing. You

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know. I like being put on
the defensive when I'm when i'm especially when

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i'm reading something that I'm expecting to
agree with. It's nice to have that.

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But anyway, to quote a former
nonprofit Russell Glasser, my skepty sense

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was tingling when I was reading this. But way back when I was for

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my first appearance on the nonprofits here, I found a research article that and

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the article connected traditionally conservative Republican viewpoints
with authoritarianism. Since then I read this

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book called Authoritarianism and Polarization in American
Politics by Heatherington and Wyler, and that

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book just contained ton of research and
they found that they could tell a lot

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about an individual just by asking them
a few questions about their views on authoritarianism.

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You know, it should be focusing
on aspects like loyalty and purity and

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that kind of stuff, and they
found that there were very very strong connections

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there. So whenever I see something
like this, I try to look at

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it through the lens of authoritarianism.
And so when I hear people talking about

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the Founding father my first thought is, so, what, you know,

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we do a lot of things different
than the Founding Fathers. You know,

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we do a lot of things better
than the Founding Fathers did. And so

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you know, we're not Thomas Jefferson
or George Washington or whomever you might want

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to either include or not include in
that group. We live in a different

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world than they did, and we
have different problems. We don't our doctors

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don't follow the same advice that they
had back then, And so, you

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know, why should we expect the
Founding Fathers to have these pearls of wisdom

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that can be applied to running our
country now in the year twenty twenty three.

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But if I were somebody who was
prone to be leaning towards authoritarianism,

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I would definitely be concerned about what
the Founding Fathers said because that you know,

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if you're an authoritarianism or authoritarianist that's
hard to say ten times fast.

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If you're one of them, then
you're looking for that authority figure, this

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founding father, that serves a role, that serves a role that's the pure,

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the essence of what it is to
be an American. And so if

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they say what you're saying, boy, that sure makes you, you know,

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really have your finger on the pulse
of what's needed in this country.

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And so so if we look at
it through that lens of authoritarianism, it

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it makes total sense that this is
that, this is what's happening. It's

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not about the truth or falsity of
the claims or the truth or the accuracy

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or inaccuracy of the history. It's
does what the authority says match what I

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believe? And so again if we
look at it from that, from that

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perspective, I think it really makes
a lot of sense. Having a history

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that matches what you believe gives you
a sense of validation and even a sense

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of righteous justification. And we see
the same things happening in religion too.

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We see maybe even way more in
religion than we see in politics. You

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know, different interpretations of the Bible. And it's amazing and very coincidental that

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the interpretation that a person has on
a on an authority figure, on authoritative

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textative document from history. It's amazing
that their interpretation always matches what they were

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thinking anyway, it's crazy. And
so you know, I find that looking

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at it that way really helps to
understand where they're coming from. And in

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order to change somebody's mind, or
to have a productive conversation with somebody,

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or to you know, to make
some kind of connection, you have to

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have that understanding of where they're coming
from and what's motivating them. And you

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know, that's something that I use
in the classroom all the time. You

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have to you know, teaching is
not something that's done to a student.

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It's it's a relationship between the teacher
and the student. It's a back and

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forth. And if you don't know, if you don't know how the person

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is hearing you, then you have
no idea how your message is landing on,

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you know, landing in their ears. And so Infidel, what what

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are your thoughts there? You seem
to be doomed to follow me on each

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of these articles here this week,
So sorry about that. Well, I

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have to say that I think you
really laid out an important point is that

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but not only is there a monolithic
motivation, and there's you know, we

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see two things at play. We
see a group of people who are taking

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advantage of those who are easily led
by a group of ideas or beliefs that

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you know, confirm what they already
want to believe or what they want to

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think. But you know, the
real force at player the people who are

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taking advantage of it. I mean, because hate is always in fashion.

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You know, I would say that
the colors change, but that would be

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dishonest because there's no reason to find
new things to hate when the old ones

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will do. And that's what we're
seeing a lot with what's going on.

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Then. You know, we're seeing
what wasn't that long ago to be unacceptable,

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things on the right to say in
public. You know, now we

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have a Speaker of the House who
is promoting a constitutional convention to you know,

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potentially put away our constitution. Those
are things that are would be considered

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rather extremists. But this is what
they've been looking for for a long time.

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I think we've seen hate become professionalized. I think we're seeing people on

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two convergence. You mentioned religion as
well, and I think religion plays a

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huge role in what we've seen on
this uptick of the right wing and their

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shrill behavior. We're seeing a group
of people in this country, the white

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majority, is facing the reality that
they're going to become a plurality in the

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next twenty years. And rather than
say, okay, well, you know,

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I've had white privilege, but being
aware of that now, instead of

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making them learn the viable lesson that
they could, oftentimes what it's doing is

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kicking them into victimhood where you know, we're the ones who are being wrong,

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whether it's religion, whether it's race, it's the others that are,

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you know, the problem, not
me, not my group, but them.

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And with seeing that and Christianity being
on decline, I think that they're

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losing and they know it. And
I know there's hope for the people who

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believe these doctrines of hate and authoritatorianism. I know I didn't choose to stay

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with it, and you know,
but the truth is, the words that

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we hear now are the words that
we heard decades before. And the reason

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they haven't changed is because these views
come from the same place they come from.

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Fear, fear of change, fear
of the unknown, fear of them,

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whatever them is, and that is
what's being taken advantage of here.

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Fear is easier than trust, no
doubt about it. It is a safer

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option. But I have to admit
trust is much more rewarding. Fear only

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brings downsides, and for people who
are wrapped up in this right wing propaganda

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machine, I can only say,
just step outside of your own comfort zone.

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I promise you it's worth it.
Blayton, I love everything y'all said,

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but I want to touch on the
actual articles. When I opened it,

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it opened up with just the quote
that I love. It's from George

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Orwell's book nineteen eighty four. I
don't know if you've ever heard of it.

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You know, in these circles,
we don't talk about things like that,

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you know. I think I read
that book you might school reading.

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But the quote states who controls the
past controls the future, who controls the

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present controls the past? And me, being a card carrying member of the

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Black Delegation, I can attest to
being part of a community of people that

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have historically been without control or like
control over our own beings, let alone

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our own history. You know what
I mean. So this is why I

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just now learned within the last year
that in eighteen twenty five there was a

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thriving black community of free people in
Central Park. We all know what's in

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Central Park now, it's not a
community. So like, these are things

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that I didn't learn into adulthood.
I also bet that you guys didn't even

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know that George Orwell didn't actually write
nineteen eighty four. He plagiarized it from

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an Italian author by the name of
my Tailmencini. And this is the man

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that I literally just made up because
facts mean fuck off in this dumb decade

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and fish. You see how easy
that is. Anybody hearing that is like,

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oh damn what George, come on
man, But like easy to play

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a simple seed of doubt, using
actual things and manipulating them for my own

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purposes. And weird thing is,
here's the crazy thing. So I went

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ahead and googled the name Matoe Mensini
and I actually found someone named my Tail

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Mensini who was an author and he
was born in nineteen eighty three. I

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don't I don't believe anything. The
trust is broken, it's going to take

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time that google. Like imagine somebody
who didn't just make up this person googling

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Matsini. But you know what I
mean, googling this person, it will

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seeing you down a rabbit hole that
you would never get out of. So

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like that's the crux of the whole
thing, Like why do we just humans

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in general? Why do we jump
to conspiracies in the first place? And

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it's I think it was infant that
kind of touched on this. We want

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to feel like we know something that
other peoples don't, Like we get that

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sense of control, and especially living
in times like now, where there's this

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intense lack of control, it's much
easier to plant that seed. So like

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I feel like I'm going to say
this, this is my opinion. A

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lot of our history is propaganda,
and living outside of the States has really

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driven that home from me. Like
once I started to see how every other

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country has their version of the events
that I've learned about throughout my whole life,

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and each country comes out smelling like
roses, you know what I mean,

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You get a sense of oh,
okay, so everybody pattern here,

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everybody has an angle here, But
like I don't know how to rewrite history

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or even what channels that I would
have to go through in order to discover

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the truth of the past. But
here's what I do know. There are

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things happening as we speak that are
being misrepresented and twisted to fit a narrative,

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and it's absolutely on us to ensure
that moving forward, history is preserved

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and never told to only one limb. Like it's much easier for people,

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or it was much easier from people
before to write something down to just say

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history boom done. Anybody that questions
this year a liar in your breath stinks

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it was that easy. But like, that's not the situation that we're in

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currently. We have the technology people, we have a means of communications with

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the entire world that is unique to
our time, Like when when Tosa was

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bombed in nineteen twenty one, nobody
had an iPhone. I was in my

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thirties the first time I even saw
a photo of Tusa as a thriving community

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and not rubble, Like that's not
something like, it's not something that I

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want for future generations. I don't
want my grandchildren or their children to find

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out what the remains of the Middle
East once looked like you know what I

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mean, it's up to us to
maintain the reality of today so that we

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have an accurate depiction of what will
once be history. I said, I

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had a lot to say, and
that was it. Hell and what you

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got from well, because when I
was looking when I was reading the article

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and I started thinking about you know, we were talking, You're talking about

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how information just spread our finger tips, like we want to know something.

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But but it's a double edged sword
because I know the algaium feeds me that

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I'm like, it knows that I
want to look at scholarly journals that I'm

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looking for, you know, more
nuanced information, because that's I've learned.

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I went to college, everybody I
learned how to do research. So I'm

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a little bit I'm a little bit
picky when it comes to those things.

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But for some people they don't know
what they're looking for. They as you

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said, we we like things that
match our feelings, that make us feel

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like we're right, and we also
that we discovered something you know, new.

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Like I always feel like when I
find something that I think is you

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and I tell somebody else, they're
like, I already knew that. I'm

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like, God, damn, it
like I want. I wanted to feel

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like it, you know, I
want to feel like an archaeologist and I

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found something cool and I want to
share with people. But it doesn't work

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that way. And I think also
too, when we're talking about like the

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revisionist history, this is getting now
infiltrated into school like I where I live,

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and for this revisionist history narrative is
being pushed into school. That is

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a real problem. I know Skot
agrees with me on this. As a

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teacher, and are other people that
are educators, they will say this is

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this is completely messed up. And
teachers that actually like history, teachers that

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actually you know, want to get
a degree to teach people history, you

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now have to twist and think about
how they're going to teach things. And

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that's a problem. It's a deep
problem. And if you don't have your

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you know, your skeptical spidy senses
on, if you're not trying to remind

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yourself you do need to be proven
wrong to know what the truth is.

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You have to remember that it's going
to make you uncomfortable. Everybody. Sometimes

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we don't like to learn things that
make us uncomfortable, but it makes you

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a more educated, well versed person
and helps to expand your mind a little

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bit more. So, you know, I'm just saying that, you know,

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you might be uncomfortable. It's okay, it's going to pass. I

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promise, you know, drink a
bottle of wine will be fine. So

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anyway, Scott, they're heading towards
the section. Everybody gets sixty seconds to

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give their opinion opinion on our next
bit here, last final thought, last

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word. Well, I wanted to
reiterate everybody, reiterate what Blayton was saying

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about the desire to see. If
you it gives you a sense of of

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knowing something, if the idea of
a conspiracy theory. It also gives a

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sense of superiority, right, it
gives you know, I was able to

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figure something out and you, sheeple, we're not able to come up with

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it. So it's it's it's it's
like a liquor. It's like a it's

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like an enticement. It's like a
siren calling to you. It's like,

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oh, I will validate all of
your most horrible beliefs, and I will

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give you this sense of being better
than everyone else. Come to me,

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Come to me, come to this
this uh this sweet island of misinformation,

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and it's just, uh, it's
it can be very tempting. It can

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be very tempting, and so you
know, as weak human beings, you

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know, I'm almost surprised it doesn't
happen more. I suppose that's the information

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age that we're in, right,
It makes everything easier, including misinformation.

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I think I was sixty eight seconds
on that. Well, first, let

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me say this very clearly, since
the book nineteen eighty four was brought up,

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you haven't read nineteen eighty four unless
you've read it in its original kling

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On starting they there's lots of nuance
in there. There's lots of nuances,

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especially the opera scene, right right, Yeah, seriously, though, I

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do think that the right is fighting
a losing battle, and that's the one

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thing that gives me hope. People
constantly exposing that, and not as you're

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stupid for believing that, but just
poking the hole, coming around the edges

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and forcing people to think about things
that their circle is not going to make

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them think about that. The people
who think the same way they do aren't

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going to make them think at all. Because yeah, I'm the kind of

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person. Let's grab it let's blow
it up. Let's blow some shit up

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and we'll figure it out from there. But the truth is that's not the

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effective way to do it. Maybe
more fun, maybe more instant gratification.

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But I think these conversations are important
to point out the flaws and the weaknesses

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in all of our thinking because we're
all, as we pointed out, vulnerable

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to this. So it's always good
to be on your toes. Blake,

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I was literally going to echo that
exact Yeah, I was going to echo

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that exact same sentiment. I want, I just want everybody to remember Matteo

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Mancini. Just think about it every
time you feel like you're too smart to

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be fooled by this, or I
was a Christian, I've gotten out of

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it, and I know when it's
coming. Now I see it coming.

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No, no, you don't always
see it coming. Stay skeptical. That's

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my message to everybody. Stay skeptical. You are not above pray. We

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are all sheeple to some degree.
Just be careful, ye, because it's

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better myself. So hey, if
you don't want to be a sheeple and

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you want to stay skeptical and watch
more nonprofits and get more stuff into your bravery,