1 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,119 What Up? What Up? Everybody? Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask 2 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,520 Paul. This is the podcast where I answer all of your electrical code related 3 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:48,880 questions that are submitted through the portal over at Paul abernathy dot com. Free 4 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,399 service doesn't cost you a dime. All you have to do is go to 5 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:55,719 Paul Abernathy dot com, put in your name, email address, and put 6 00:00:55,759 --> 00:01:00,960 in your question and you could be selected for an upcoming podcast much like today's. 7 00:01:00,399 --> 00:01:03,439 But at the least if you put your email address in there, I 8 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,680 will look at your question and give you a response back, because I want 9 00:01:07,719 --> 00:01:11,480 to make sure that we respond back. And if I ever forget you and 10 00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:14,840 you do submit something, just remind me because I get tons of these. 11 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,239 In fact, there are hundreds of them now sitting in the queue still waiting 12 00:01:19,239 --> 00:01:22,239 for me to answer, and I get to them as quick as I can. 13 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,120 So I usually do, you know, ten or fifteen a week trying 14 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:30,400 to keep caught up, and of course when the weekends come around, I 15 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,760 do what I do podcasts, so make sure you check that out. Also, 16 00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:40,200 you can listen to our podcasts on any of your favorite listening platforms Sprinkurse, 17 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,280 Spotify, Dzer, Apple podcasts, Google podcasts. Spotify is my favorite, 18 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,079 and of course I stream it to my Alexa device and listen in the 19 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:53,079 shower. And a lot of my podcasts I listen to are business and marketing 20 00:01:53,159 --> 00:01:57,519 podcasts, website design podcasts, things like that. I've enamored by that. 21 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,159 I suck at it, but I you know, I love to develop the 22 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,840 websites and work with and dabble with the websites, but I'm not that great 23 00:02:05,879 --> 00:02:10,719 at it. So these are great to listen to. Also, you can 24 00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:15,240 listen to our podcast through your phone by getting our free mobile app. So 25 00:02:15,319 --> 00:02:19,919 all you got to do is go to our website fasttracksystem dot com. And 26 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,719 you go to Fasttracksystem dot com. You'll see in the navigation it'll say mobile 27 00:02:23,719 --> 00:02:27,360 app. It's not gonna put anything on your phone. It's a web based 28 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,960 mobile app, so it just puts an icon on there. We're not gonna 29 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,280 spam you with anything. You're not We're not pulling any information from your phone. 30 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,639 You just click it and it opens up our web based mobile app, 31 00:02:37,879 --> 00:02:39,479 and it looks just like a mobile app on your phone, works just like 32 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,759 it, but it doesn't put the garbage in your phone. And that mobile 33 00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:46,639 app is great to get calculators. If you're in the field and you're in 34 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,080 a pinch, you got you got a bunch of different motor calculations, voltage 35 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,879 drop calculations, opacity calculations. There's some neat stuff there. Uh. There's 36 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,879 also a chat now features so you can chat with other members who have the 37 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,560 app. You can get to fast Track Tube from the app if you're a 38 00:03:00,599 --> 00:03:05,840 subscriber. There's just a lot of great things. Our blogs are instantly available 39 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,400 there. We have some really good blogs that you can read on your lunch 40 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,879 break. Don't do it during your work, do it on your lunch break. 41 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,400 But again, you can also listen to the podcast directly from there as 42 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,680 well and stream it to any other device like your car or whatever. So 43 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,280 anyway, check that out. All you gotta do is go to our website. 44 00:03:22,479 --> 00:03:25,639 All right. So the question today that was submitted to me that I 45 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,199 thought was an interesting question was asking basically an opinion, and I you know, 46 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,360 I am very opinionated, but most of you know that. But the 47 00:03:32,439 --> 00:03:38,840 question was asking me what do I think is the And I can't remember I'm 48 00:03:38,879 --> 00:03:43,479 paraphrasing it because I don't remember whether I deleted the email or not, but 49 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,719 I wanted to make sure that I did respond to it. Because I didn't. 50 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:50,479 I don't know what happened, and anyway, it's lost. But so 51 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,280 I'm not going to give an email response to it. But I figured that's 52 00:03:53,319 --> 00:03:57,759 the reason why I want to select it, to do a podcast for it, 53 00:03:58,159 --> 00:04:00,560 and basically to're asking me, in my years experience, where do I 54 00:04:00,599 --> 00:04:06,400 feel that the majority of electricians out there get wrong the most? Now I 55 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:11,000 don't know if it's trying to select what code section I think they violate the 56 00:04:11,039 --> 00:04:17,959 most, because that's just that's a tough one. But what I find regularly 57 00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:25,360 in been doing this for over thirty eight years is that it tends to be 58 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:31,120 a misunderstanding of the principles of grounding and bonding, whether it's generators, and 59 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,240 not understanding how a GFCI works on a generator if it's not connected back to 60 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:41,279 the source, and how it's not going to function, and how a GFCI 61 00:04:41,399 --> 00:04:45,439 functions. And they think it's the holy grail of protecting you and it's not. 62 00:04:46,399 --> 00:04:53,000 But you know, it's a good start. But that's probably the number 63 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,959 one thing is through the years, I think that the people's understanding of grounding 64 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,759 and bonding principles. They think they know them better than they really do. 65 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,439 And so this is why you know, people ask when I'm doing webinars and 66 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:11,439 training, why do I gravitate more towards grounding and bonding topics? Well, 67 00:05:11,759 --> 00:05:15,959 you know the normal stuff in the code. Just looking up stuff in the 68 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,959 code, it's pretty fairly. You know, it can get proficient at it 69 00:05:18,879 --> 00:05:23,399 calculations once you you know, that's kind of a visual thing. Once you 70 00:05:23,639 --> 00:05:28,160 get used to it, you see how something is, then it becomes easier. 71 00:05:28,319 --> 00:05:30,920 You're like, okay, I get it. When it comes to grounding 72 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,199 and bonding, we still run into the issue where people can't seem to wrap 73 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,680 their head around the principles of grounding and bonding. Even though we could boil 74 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:46,319 it down to the simpleness of creating a low impedance effective ground fault current path 75 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,720 back to the source. We could break it down into making sure that you 76 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:57,920 bond all metal parts together so everything's at the same potential. We could try 77 00:05:57,959 --> 00:06:01,839 to boil it down to all those basic concepts, but then it still gets 78 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:08,839 lost when the electrician goes to the installation process. So you know whether it's 79 00:06:08,879 --> 00:06:13,160 dealing with and I just recently did a couple of videos. If you're interested 80 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,319 in them, they're over on fast tracks Tube. That's our video platform, 81 00:06:16,639 --> 00:06:21,399 not on it's not on YouTube, it's only on our subscription platform, fast 82 00:06:21,439 --> 00:06:25,560 tracks Tube. It's the best ninety nine bucks you'll ever spend, I promise 83 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,439 you, And that's where all of our exclusive episodes are at, and it's 84 00:06:30,439 --> 00:06:34,360 constantly expanding. So I think it's a great deal. Ninety nine bucks a 85 00:06:34,439 --> 00:06:40,279 year, unlimited access to all the videos, and we have some webinars on 86 00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:43,319 there that are worth that price alone. In fact, they cost people three 87 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,079 times that to attend the webinars. So you know, I think it's a 88 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:53,120 great value personally. But anyway, you know, you find out that you 89 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:58,800 know, in the last couple of years, it's kind of social media has 90 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:04,399 created a big awareness of issues that people are that they just don't understand grounding 91 00:07:04,439 --> 00:07:09,000 and bonding, and so they post stuff and you read it, and when 92 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,360 you're somebody like me that that actually you know, serves on the code making 93 00:07:13,439 --> 00:07:16,800 panel, And I tell you right now, I've been so blessed to be 94 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,959 on Code Panel five. Some of the people that are on that code panel 95 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:28,519 are just amazing Paul Dombrowski is just amazing. Christine Porter, it's just amazing, 96 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,639 Phil Simmons, different people like Joe Andre, different people like that that 97 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:39,319 you know that sit on a committee that you know you can just chime in 98 00:07:39,399 --> 00:07:43,759 with them. Everybody's learning environment. It's a very unique code panel. I'm 99 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,360 on other code panels, but five is by far my favorite because of the 100 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:53,879 intellectual minds that sit on that panel. So I think of Code Panel five, 101 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,519 and again it's not just because I'm on it, but prior to being 102 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,759 on it, it was one of the panels that I'll always looked up to 103 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,319 and I'm like, you know what, just looking at the pedigree that sits 104 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:09,439 on that is always where I wanted to be. And so I've been blessed 105 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,560 to be on there for a couple of cycles since twenty seventeen cycle, and 106 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,639 you know, and we're developing the twenty twenty six right now. And these 107 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,720 are just some great people. Now they're not without making mistakes, because they 108 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,519 are making a mistake when it comes to the equipment, ground and conductor and 109 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:28,279 you're running in parallel. But notwithstanding that, and that was not done by 110 00:08:28,279 --> 00:08:33,279 a bunch of collective that was done by one group of individuals who are really 111 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:39,000 not understanding the concepts of paralleling equipment grounds and why we have to have them 112 00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:43,600 full size in each race way. They're not understanding that. But anyway, 113 00:08:43,639 --> 00:08:48,080 at the end of the day, great panel, great people, and I 114 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,879 get to sit in on it. But one thing that I found recently, 115 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:58,320 when I say recently in the last couple of years, is that electricians really 116 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:01,759 don't understand grounding. And but even when you do something wrong right, so 117 00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:05,279 even if you have an improper case to neutral other than the fact that now 118 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,039 that we have afci's they can detect that. But but prior to that, 119 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:16,320 we propagated this issue where people didn't do things right and they violated the rules 120 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,200 and two fifty twenty four A five or now it's two fifty dot twenty four 121 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:28,759 B that they they violated these rules. But yet it's still worked, and 122 00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:37,360 everything seemed okay until it's not okay. And so people ask me, I 123 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,279 mean, the code changes every three years, and we get tons of submissions 124 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,200 on code panel five, and I look at it and I go, you 125 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,720 know what, the reason this keeps evolving is because we actually learned what we 126 00:09:48,919 --> 00:09:54,519 didn't know and we bring other people who have other areas of expertise to the 127 00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:58,879 code panels, like Eric Stromberg. He Eric Stromberg is great when dealing with 128 00:10:01,919 --> 00:10:07,320 the high resistance grounding and all this type of other stuff because he worked at 129 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:13,240 Los Alamos and he brings a great knowledge to this committee based on those things 130 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:18,840 that a lot of us don't really work with. The concepts are simple, 131 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:24,120 but he brings that knowledge that together makes for a great panel. So that's 132 00:10:24,159 --> 00:10:28,000 an example of when you you you mix the right sauce and you bring the 133 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:33,720 right group of people together. And that's to me what Copenal five is all 134 00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:39,399 about. Now. One of the things that, like I said, going 135 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,679 on social media and one of my missions on social media, and I don't 136 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,240 answer a lot of questions on social media. I understand that social media is 137 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:50,919 a necessary evil for a company and marketing and business and and everything. But 138 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:56,080 what I what does dishearten me a lot is when I see posts by people 139 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,200 or comments by people that say it in a way that's so matter of act, 140 00:11:00,279 --> 00:11:05,519 yet they're so wrong, but they actually passionately believe what they say even 141 00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:09,879 though they're wrong, and you can try to correct them, but it becomes 142 00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:13,080 a pissing match, and I'm not into that. You either want to learn 143 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,720 or you don't want to learn it. If you don't want to learn, 144 00:11:15,759 --> 00:11:20,120 I'll just move on. But when you read it and you see it, 145 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,240 you start to realize that collectively, one of the biggest things that people don't 146 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,759 understand is the concepts of grounding and bonding, even the simplest thing when you 147 00:11:28,799 --> 00:11:33,840 try to break it down to like supply side bonding and then load side bonding. 148 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,639 Right, whether you're sizing the supply side bonding jumpers and two fifty one 149 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:43,320 zero two C one or you're doing a load side equipment bonding jumpers and two 150 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:48,120 fifty one zero two D, they don't get it right. They don't understand 151 00:11:48,279 --> 00:11:52,279 the concepts and what happens if you need to service, you know, do 152 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,360 a little more for service bonding and you're looking at two fifty ninety two fifty 153 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:01,799 ninety two A and B and realize that that is different than what you would 154 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,639 do on the load side. But they make it, you know, way 155 00:12:05,799 --> 00:12:11,039 more complicated than it needs to be. So I tend to put out videos 156 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,320 and there's some of those over on fast Tracks Tube that try to break that 157 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,399 down and if I find little areas, I mean, I don't want to 158 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,039 teach the entire grounding and bonding all article two fifty. I mean, we 159 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,279 have a course for that. If you're interested in that course, it's one 160 00:12:24,279 --> 00:12:28,039 of the best out there. I'm biased, of course, but in the 161 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,440 twenty twenty edition, I helped write this book, and I did not help 162 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,559 for the twenty twenty three but they didn't really add, you know, change 163 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,240 anything. They just put what changed in the code from twenty twenty to twenty 164 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:45,039 twenty three. And I wasn't asked by Engage or phil to help with that 165 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,759 book, but they did work with a gentleman named Mark Odi. And Mark 166 00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:52,679 Odi is an amazing guy, amazing educator, and so I have no doubt 167 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,960 that the twenty twenty three edition is amazing, and we have the course based 168 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:03,320 on the twenty twenty three edition. So I encourage it for everybody that wants 169 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,399 to get a deep understanding of the NEEC. And it's not that you have 170 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,519 to, right, I mean, it's you've already got your license, so 171 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,159 you're thinking, shit, I'm not going to spend any money on a course. 172 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:18,200 I've already got my license, And that's kind of a sad thing because 173 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,519 I am constantly doing courses. I am constantly continually learning things, taking classes. 174 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,480 I do continuing education from my electrical licenses, never with my own content. 175 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,799 I use other people's content so I can learn from their content. It's 176 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:41,600 a perpetual learning process. And so it saddens me that people, I mean, 177 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:45,600 obviously I'm selling courses, don't get me wrong, but it saddens me 178 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,639 that you put out material to teach people and they don't want to go that 179 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,159 extra mile to learn something. We're on this rock a short amount of time. 180 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,440 I like to learn as much as I can, and it always broads 181 00:13:58,519 --> 00:14:03,399 my knowledge. So if you're interested in our Grounding and Bonding course, it's 182 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:09,360 a great course. It's available over on our website fasttracksystem dot com, and 183 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,039 you're in. It's unlimited, means you'r don as it doesn't expire, and 184 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,559 there's a lot of quizes in it, and you get a better understanding of 185 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,840 grounding and bonding and it logically walks you through article two fifty by the way, 186 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,000 so it's not going to be random here there. It's very logical flow 187 00:14:24,519 --> 00:14:28,399 and so great illustrations. That's the one thing I'll tell you that is really 188 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:35,279 great call outs and illustrations and discussions, a lot of discussions that kind of 189 00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:39,000 get in the mind of the educator. So that's available over on our website 190 00:14:39,039 --> 00:14:41,799 if you're interested in a good grounding and binding, and it never expires, 191 00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:48,440 so you can buy it now and it'll serve you for years. But that's 192 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:54,120 probably the number one thing that I see is social media is opened up the 193 00:14:54,240 --> 00:15:00,440 umbrella of ignorance. And that sounds nasty, but it allows us to see 194 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,279 what people really know and versus what they really don't know in it. And 195 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,440 you know, there's a lot of people that don't comment, and my problem 196 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:15,320 is I don't want people that So people ask me why do I filter comments? 197 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,720 Isn't it open for opinions? And not really? Not really, I 198 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,279 be honest with you. I serve on co panel five. I've been doing 199 00:15:24,279 --> 00:15:28,200 granting a bonding for years. I've written books on it, written articles on 200 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,919 it. I'm not I don't know everything in two point fifty I know how 201 00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:37,159 to read it and interpret it. But where I do share information, I 202 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,480 don't need opinions. I know that sounds bad, like, oh, you 203 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:43,759 think you're a know it all that's just going to lead to the people that 204 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,080 hate me. Go, Paul, that's right, Paul. Thanks, he's 205 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:52,000 a know it all. No, I just can't let the social media from 206 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:58,559 my accounts turn into a pissing contest over your opinion. Which you can have 207 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,559 your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're factually wrong, 208 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,039 I'm not going to let you taint it by arguing something that's just not correct. 209 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,720 And you say, well, who says you're correct? Well, my 210 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:17,279 thirty eight years in serving on a panel that's dedicated to grounding and bonding, 211 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,840 writing a book with it on grounding and bonding, and answering questions for many 212 00:16:21,879 --> 00:16:26,320 many years decades now on grounding and bonding, I think I'm gonna go with 213 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,879 my opinion. Okay, Now, if you have a question and a comment 214 00:16:30,919 --> 00:16:34,600 that's very constructive, yeah, I allow those, and I do my best 215 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,720 to try to answer those. But if you want to get into a chest 216 00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:40,840 pounding match or whatever, then I'm just not going to let that. And 217 00:16:40,879 --> 00:16:42,960 that's on any of my platforms, by the way, any platform that I 218 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,919 do, I'm just not gonna let that happen. Just not worth it. 219 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:53,360 So so yeah, so grounding and bonding is if I have to give you 220 00:16:53,399 --> 00:16:56,480 any advice, if you're a young person out there and you're studying your free 221 00:16:56,559 --> 00:17:00,840 exams and you already or you already have your license, and you're thinking what 222 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:06,559 area can I study? And I get this question a lot people say, 223 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,039 Hey, Paul, I've got my license, but I want to grow my 224 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:14,519 knowledge because you find yourself asking questions on things, and if you ever sit 225 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:15,759 down and you think about something you don't know the answer in your head, 226 00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:19,720 that means probably other people don't either, and that means there's probably other things 227 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:25,920 you don't know. And so the reason we put the courses out there for 228 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,839 grounding and bonding is to give you this area to go and to have these 229 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:36,160 discussions. And in all of our programs we also have an area where you 230 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:37,960 can have comments at the end, so you have something you don't understand in 231 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,720 the unit, you can do a comment and we'll answer it in the comments. 232 00:17:41,799 --> 00:17:45,000 That's a beautiful thing about our courses that they allow for those comments for 233 00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:51,240 you to be able to interact as you're going through the program. I think 234 00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:55,559 that again, looking at grounding and bonding issues, that if I had somebody 235 00:17:55,599 --> 00:17:57,880 young that said, what can I do to get more proficient or get better? 236 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:03,720 And I would say get grounding and bonding. Really, study grounding and 237 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:12,119 bonding really, because article two fifty is probably one of the toughest articles out 238 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:17,359 there to wrap your head around. And I tell you it's not as simple 239 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:22,960 as this. Bond all metal together, supply a low impedances effective ground fall 240 00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:27,359 current path, put everything at the same potential that's on a surfaces. That 241 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,880 sounds easy, right, Meeting all the objectives of two fifty dot four. 242 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:37,000 Okay, I get it. But at the end of the day, you 243 00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:44,200 have performance requirements and you have prescriptive requirements. The performance requirements and two fifty 244 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,119 dot four is that if you do everything that you're supposed to do in article 245 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,519 two fifty, then you're going to have a safe installation. And then it 246 00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:55,759 proceeds to give you the prescriptive requirements all through two fifty, Well do this, 247 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,440 do that, do this, do that, size this, size that. 248 00:18:57,799 --> 00:19:03,680 Those are all prescriptive in order to try to achieve a performance, which 249 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,480 is obviously to make it safe. Right. So I think at the end 250 00:19:07,519 --> 00:19:12,559 of the day, when people do things like just as simple as sizing equipment, 251 00:19:12,599 --> 00:19:17,240 ground and conductors. Believe it or not, they're still confusing and I 252 00:19:17,279 --> 00:19:19,839 get these emails. There's still confusion. When you look at two fifty one 253 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,160 twenty two, you have an A, A, B, A, C, 254 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,119 A, D, E, and F and you have the table that 255 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,000 people still get confused. Hell, I can tell you right now, even 256 00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:38,720 Code Panel five, certain individuals that submitted a committee input to change equipment ground 257 00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:44,000 sizing, did not do the research. They're just doing it off of a 258 00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:48,640 whim. And again that doesn't go against me saying the intellect of the Code 259 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:56,160 Panel five is amazing because they are sometimes even people that are experts, are 260 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,640 so confident that they think you should just believe them at face value without bringing 261 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,319 the reci without bringing the goods, And this is an example of that. 262 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,119 Not to take anything away from those individuals on that task group that did that, 263 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:08,440 I'm just saying, you didn't bring the receipts, you didn't bring the 264 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:14,079 goods. And I called that out during the meeting and they did not address 265 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,920 my question, which actually goes against the NFPA policy. So I don't know, 266 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,160 And somebody called that out in the public comment stage, and it was 267 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,240 only one person that voted against it. The reason I didn't vote against it 268 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:32,680 was because I represent the Aluminum Association and we have this ruling. If it's 269 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,519 not one hundred percent unanimous, then you abstain. So ultimately we just said, 270 00:20:37,519 --> 00:20:40,200 you know what, we'll just agree to it, even though I presented 271 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,920 the reason why it was bad, because they know that we're going to send 272 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,759 something. We're going to submit something. It's what's called a public comment stage, 273 00:20:48,079 --> 00:20:49,759 and that's going to give the goods right, we're going to bring the 274 00:20:49,799 --> 00:20:53,599 receipts then and try to get it corrected. Then it would be no good 275 00:20:53,759 --> 00:21:00,880 trying to shoot it down in the public input vote because we knew that there 276 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,519 wasn't as much argument during the meeting, so the chances are it was still 277 00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:07,799 going to get consensus and going to go to a public comment stage anyway. 278 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,519 And that was fine because we wanted many other people to be able to chime 279 00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:15,079 in on it, and so now all of you can chime in on it. 280 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,279 So if you want to you want to support me in that, and 281 00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:21,279 I hate to go on this little tangent, but if you want to support 282 00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:23,759 me on that and make sure the code does not get less less safe, 283 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,920 then make sure you go to read our blog. I have a blog that's 284 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:33,880 out there over on the blogs on fastracksystem dot com. You'll see the tag 285 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,000 blog kind of scroll through it, you'll see it. It talks about the 286 00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:44,359 paralleling of an equipment ground and conductor and there's two articles on there. Make 287 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,119 sure you read them. Do me a favor, read it and share it. 288 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:52,640 And I would love for you to submit a public comment on that change 289 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:59,519 and that that change is in two point fifty f and I encourage you to 290 00:21:59,519 --> 00:22:06,240 get involved because again, we don't have any data out there that would justify 291 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,559 us reducing the size of an equipment ground. Remember it's got to clear an 292 00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:14,200 overcurrent device. So I think we're making a massive mistake without any data to 293 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,720 support it. Okay, so that's my soapbox if you want to get involved 294 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,720 in that flood the code panel with public comments on that saying that they're making 295 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,720 a mistake when it comes to two fifty one twenty two f and I believe 296 00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:30,799 it's f two by the way. So anyway, that's my soapbox for that. 297 00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:34,079 But that doesn't take anything away from the code Panel. That's just individuals 298 00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:40,720 who are very knowledgeable and they believe that they're right, but they don't bring 299 00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:42,640 the goods. They don't bring the receipts, and that's a problem. I 300 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,319 always try to bring the receipts, you know. I don't want to just 301 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:52,519 spout off something about code where I cannot articulate it or I cannot bring justification 302 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,720 for it's just me right. And that's why I always have a mission when 303 00:22:56,759 --> 00:23:03,039 we created the CMECP program is to train electricians master electricians to always bring the 304 00:23:03,079 --> 00:23:08,039 receipts. You're a code expert at that point, so you bring the goods. 305 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:14,440 Uh. And if you're going to give an opinion on something and make 306 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,279 sure you back it up with code. Don't just say something that you believe 307 00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:21,640 because you heard somebody else say it. Now you got to bring the goods, 308 00:23:21,839 --> 00:23:26,559 right. And so that's the whole purpose of you know, being able 309 00:23:26,599 --> 00:23:30,079 to be a code expert, or whether you don't want to consider yourself a 310 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,119 code expert, I get it. Some people say that's obnoxious. My opinion 311 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,359 of a code expert or an anyc expert is somebody that not just quotes the 312 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,240 entire code, but knows how to research it, go through it and provide 313 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,519 a very detailed response. You don't have to know everything in that NEC, 314 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:45,960 but you need to know how to research it, find the answer, and 315 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,880 then formulate your opinion. And that to me is what a code an ANYC 316 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,880 code expert is not just somebody that just regurgitates it from their brain. Right 317 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,960 now, obviously we remember a lot of things because we've been doing this for 318 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,720 a number of years, but I still go to the codebook to verify, 319 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,279 read it, make sure I'm reading it, make sure it all comprehends. 320 00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:11,559 To me, getting number one problem with people learning the NEC is reading comprehension 321 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,759 reading it, and if you have to read something multiple times, then you've 322 00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:18,359 got reading comprehension issues. I'm just saying. Or it could be written so 323 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,799 ambiguous that you have to stop, slow down and think about it. Because 324 00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:26,519 code is written like that. It'll have one sentence and then the next sentence 325 00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:29,440 is a totally different thing, and then the third sentence all within the like 326 00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:33,400 a paragraph, and they all mean different things, and so it's it's not 327 00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:37,880 broken up real well. So hey, I'm the first to tell you the 328 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,240 NEC is a confusing document, but it to me, it's less confusing than 329 00:24:42,279 --> 00:24:48,519 the ICC documents, and it's much less confusing than ASTMs or UL documents. 330 00:24:48,759 --> 00:24:53,119 I'm just saying. But at the end of the day, I give you 331 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:59,799 example, UL documents talk about grounding conductor and they're really wanting to talk about 332 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,279 equipment ground and conductor, but they talk about grounding conductor. And so when 333 00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:07,079 you work in the UL standards and you know they're talking about an equipment ground 334 00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:11,440 but we don't use the term grounding conductor. In the NEC. We steer 335 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,480 away from it. We have specific terms. But then you go to the 336 00:25:15,559 --> 00:25:18,720 UL standard and they go ground and conductor. Why don't they call it equipment 337 00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:22,240 ground and conductor. You see what I'm saying. So a lot of times 338 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,359 somebody like me who works in the UL standards, a STMs, works in 339 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:32,519 the ANTI standards, ends up working in the NEC. Back and forth. 340 00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:37,480 You got to really focus because the crap can go all over the place with 341 00:25:37,599 --> 00:25:41,640 terminologies. Right, So again UL and the UL committees. I serve on 342 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:47,200 various UL committees. You know, we should make an effort to mirror the 343 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:52,400 minimum safety standard of the NEEC, that type of thing. So AnyWho, 344 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:59,039 Yeah, I hope that answers your question. Grounding and bonding. That's why 345 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,599 we put out the course, yes, because we feel it's important to have 346 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,079 people educated. That's why we do the videos over in Fast Tracks Tube. 347 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,559 We feel like grounding and bonding is where you think you're comfortable with grounding and 348 00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:15,640 bonding, you're really not and there's something extra to learn that type of thing, 349 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,519 you know, understanding of the electrodes, Understanding how they interconnect, Understanding 350 00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:27,799 the difference between a supplementary or supplemental electrode versus an auxiliary electrode. Understanding the 351 00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:34,119 sizing requirements supply side bonding jumpers, load side equipment bonding jumpers, equipment grounding 352 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:45,440 jumpers, equipment bonding conductors, equipment grounding conductors, just so much that you 353 00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:48,359 have to wrap your head around, and the sizing rules can be slightly different. 354 00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:56,799 Right, So yeah, Understanding the tables fifty sixty six, understanding two 355 00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:02,519 fifty one zero two c one standing two fifty one twenty two, how they 356 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,200 interrelate in a circuit, all those type of things, how they can work 357 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,640 together when you're trying to accomplish something in grounding and bonding. For example, 358 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,119 an equipment grounding conductor serves a bonding role, right, but we don't call 359 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,200 an equipment bonding conductor, even though people have been trying to change that for 360 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,000 the years. We don't need to change that because it is an equipment grounding 361 00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:27,079 conductor because it serves a stabilization, it extends the connection to Earth, but 362 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:33,640 it also does bonding, and so that's in the informational note, which is 363 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,240 part of the definition. So we don't really need to make this overly complicated, 364 00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:42,559 and it's all there, but it can get confusing. I'm not gonna 365 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,880 lie, and so that's why we came out with the course. So if 366 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:48,680 you want our course, go to our website. If you want to watch 367 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,240 some of the videos on grounding and bonding, go over to fast tracks Tube. 368 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,200 We'd love to have you. But hopefully that answers that question, folks. 369 00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:57,079 All right, all right, that's it for this podcast. Hopefully you 370 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,279 got something out of it. Grounding and bondings seems to be the toughest area 371 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,799 that even today after thirty eight years, when I look at social media or 372 00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:11,920 I have conversations with people, whether it's again supply side bonding, sizing, 373 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:17,960 jumpers, all of that still seems to confuse people even to this day. 374 00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:22,119 Right, So at the end of the day, get our grounding and bonding. 375 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,000 Course. It's going to help you. I promise you. It's going 376 00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:26,960 to be one that never expires. You keep it in your pocket. It's 377 00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:30,279 web friendly so you can use it on your phone. It's just a great 378 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,359 resource, all right, folks. That's it. Just wanted to make sure 379 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,119 that we covered it and answered that topic because I did delete it, and 380 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,799 I just want the gentleman out there who submitted it to know that I did 381 00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:44,480 not forget you. I did cover the topic for you. Till next time, 382 00:28:44,519 --> 00:29:00,039 folks, Stay safe, God bless and be safe out there. Nothing 383 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:14,799 a thing mask, nothing