WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.480 --> 00:00:05.639 This is Hudson River Radio dot Com. This is Travis Walton, and you 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:21.960 are listening to UFO Headquarters. Fuiful headquarters, and a very good evening to 3 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:27.000 all of our listeners far and wide, whether you're here in the Hudson Valley, 4 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:30.800 the United States, or in one of the many other countries that joining 5 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:35.439 us. My name is Michael Wharton. This is UFO Headquarters, and of 6 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:40.240 course waiting here who was absent last month. So I am so happy to 7 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:43.640 have her back. I had to I had to fly the UFO solo last 8 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:47.439 month, but I did okay, so it did great. Thank you. 9 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:50.840 It's so good to see you, so good, thank you. It's good 10 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:54.359 to be bad. It's good to be anywhere after what I went through. 11 00:00:54.520 --> 00:01:00.320 So yeah, still alive and ready to dive into some UFOs again. Missed 12 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:04.920 you guys. UM. Before we get in tonight's topic, I think we 13 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:08.719 UM, we should talk about your book a little bit because in case people 14 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:12.640 are new to the show or haven't been listening, which they should catch up 15 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:18.439 on it. UM should know that the definitive volume of Hudson Valley UFOs is 16 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:23.319 available. It's out there. It is UM a remarkable work. I mean 17 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:26.920 thank you. I know what you went through to do it, because I've 18 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.000 been on the hit that end too, of the pain and suffering. But 19 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:34.599 it is UM, it's truly anybody interested in UFOs, I think it's must 20 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.120 have in their in their collection. It's going to be a reference for for 21 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:45.079 years to come, so I think long after I'm gone hopefully. Yeah, 22 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:49.560 it's UM Hudson Valley UFOs the best evidence. And I have a funny story 23 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:56.040 about that. I was, UM, I do other podcasts. I'm sorry, 24 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:04.760 I podcast cheater UM and I was on the coast to coast and George 25 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:08.159 Nori had the book and he said, this thing is this thing is huge. 26 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:10.280 He said, if you dropped it out of a building, it would 27 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:15.680 kill someone. So wow, what a what a great endorsement. Maybe I 28 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:21.960 should put a disclaimer on the warning this book could kill you if it falls 29 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:24.520 out of a building. UM. I have to go listen to that interview. 30 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:28.439 How did it go with George? Oh went good? Good. You 31 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:31.400 know, we try. It's like you have two hours, but you don't 32 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:35.439 have two hours. Uh you know, And it was like, oh, 33 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:38.319 how am I going to get it? Because we were covering animal reactions and 34 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:44.000 the Hudson Valley. So um, but yeah it was. It was a 35 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:47.120 lot of fun. And uh, I know a lot of people are buying 36 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:53.560 my book, but could you please somebody leave leave some reviews on Amazon because 37 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:57.520 it really helps, you know. I know, if I'm going to look 38 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:01.479 for a book and nobody's reviewed it yet, you know, it's you can 39 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:05.680 be a little skeptical, so you don't have to type. I know, 40 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:07.840 people like, what am I going to write? You know, like, 41 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:10.000 oh my god, I have to write a sentence. You can at least 42 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:15.120 leave, um, you know, just press like five stars and and they're 43 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:19.520 you know, I'm assuming you like, if you don't like it, go 44 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:23.120 away, don't Yeah, yeah, don't don't leave an don't leave a review 45 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:29.080 on Amazon. But you would have to question your your your your view of 46 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:31.199 the world if you didn't like your any of your books. I mean, 47 00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:38.879 just and right back at you. Yours are doing well as well, and 48 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:42.599 yeah, they're they're plugging along. I actually sold out of my first my 49 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:47.599 first round of hardcovers locally. Wow. Good. In the process of getting 50 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:51.840 another order. I have to decide it before I write my next book. 51 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.240 I'm going to go back to my my Richard Jennings book, okay, and 52 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:59.919 I'm gonna update it with the new information um reform at it because I want 53 00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:01.639 the format to be the same as the current book and put it out as 54 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.919 a second edition so that all my books will follow the same format. Wow, 55 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.000 so you're gonna have large books that if you drop out a window you 56 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:15.240 could also Yeah. So definitely mine is what here? You go right behind 57 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:19.800 mine? My CLU serious physical injury. If it does well, we are 58 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:26.319 here to talk about UFOs tonight, so maybe maybe we should actually get into 59 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:30.160 that and tonight's And Linda, I gotta tell you when when you suggested this 60 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:34.079 topic, it dawned on me. It's how come we've never discussed this one 61 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:39.800 before. It's not something you hear a lot of, and that's I think 62 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:43.600 a lot of people are going to find it interesting because you hear about everything 63 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:47.000 else, but this is sort of you know, yeah, I you know, 64 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:55.240 because it's helicopters and UFOs if you haven't seen the the title and I 65 00:04:55.279 --> 00:05:00.120 was just doing some research I don't know, a couple months ago, and 66 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:02.000 I was like, oh, that's a fascinating case and it's a you know, 67 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:08.680 involves a helicopter because you hear fighter jets and things like that. And 68 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:12.759 then I'm like, then I realized, how many cases have we heard in 69 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:18.199 the Hudson Valley that involve helicopters. So so when I put up the little 70 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:25.120 uh blurb for today's show, I said, sometimes UFOs chase helicopters, and 71 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:30.959 sometimes helicopters chase UFOs. So we have a couple of those cases tonight. 72 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:40.199 So let's let's dive in. We're going back to nineteen seventy three October, 73 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:46.680 and what was going on in October seventy three. There was a little case 74 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:53.480 called Pascagoula. If you're not familiar with that, look that up Mississippi October 75 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:58.600 eleventh, Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker, and we could do a show on 76 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:02.800 that. But Calvin Parker is still alive. And nobody does the Pascagoula case 77 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:08.279 better than the man who lived it. Um, so I recommend you. 78 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:14.399 Um he did some good shows on podcast UFO and other shows like that. 79 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:23.800 So great entity abduction case. But just one week later, seven days later, 80 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:30.120 October eighteenth, nineteen seventy nine, we're going to Texas. Umh, 81 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:34.079 no, excuse me, We're not going to Texas. That's another case. 82 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:40.519 We're going to Ohio near Mansfield, Ohio, which I know will ring a 83 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:45.639 bell with you. The Mansfield Reformatory. Yes, very haunted location. And 84 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:53.160 by the way, I've been there, you haven't, so we're both ways. 85 00:06:53.360 --> 00:07:00.560 So so October eighteenth, nineteen seventy three Army Reserve you H one helicopter 86 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:11.160 was being flown by Lawrence Coin. Also when this crew was Lieutenant OReGO Jesse, 87 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:15.680 Sergeant John Healy, and the crew chief was Robert Yanisk. They had 88 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:21.720 left port Cleveland Airport, had gone to Columbus, and they were having routine 89 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:27.959 medical exams. So this was no big deal. You know, you get 90 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.439 in the helicopter, your fly to Columbus, you get your exams. They're 91 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:36.079 on their way back. It's about ten thirty pm and they're heading back toward 92 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:45.160 Cleveland, so can't get much more routine than that. Except about eight miles 93 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:49.920 east of Mansfield, the crew chief, Robert Yanisk, observed a bright, 94 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:56.759 bright light off to the right. You know, there's other certainly it's Ohio, 95 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:01.600 going to be a lot of air traffic, but this looked difference different 96 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:07.079 out on the eastern horizon. They were flying. The helicopter was flying north 97 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:13.959 at about twenty five hundred feet and the pilot again, Coin, look at 98 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:18.759 that coy n E for those you want to look it up. This light 99 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:22.399 is pacing the helicopter. It's going parallel to it on the right side, 100 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:30.600 and they're just curious because they can't identify it doesn't doesn't look like familiar air 101 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:37.879 traffic. Then it gets a little worrisome because this light starts heading towards them, 102 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:43.759 and at the same altitude they're moving at about ninety knots. They estimate 103 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:50.720 this object is heading towards them at about six hundred knots. I don't know 104 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:56.480 if you would panic, but be a little concerned at this point, like, 105 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:00.360 what the hell is this coming at me? You know, come at 106 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:03.759 us so fast. So the co pilot, Jez, he's in the left 107 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:09.399 seat. He can't see the object and he had been flying at that point. 108 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:16.720 So Coin takes over the controls because well, here's in his own words, 109 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:20.679 I took the controls from Jesse because I thought it was going to hit 110 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:26.679 us. I braced for impact. I pushed the collective down. Let me 111 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:33.399 stop right there. In a helicopter. The two main controls are the collective 112 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:41.879 and the cyclic. The collective is for going up essentially altitude up and down, 113 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:48.320 so he pushed the collective down. He's trying to dive essentially as best 114 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:54.399 you can in a helicopter because he thinks they're all about to die by. 115 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:58.120 You know, you don't have a good chance of floating down to Earth if 116 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:07.000 you get hit and disabled. You know your helicopter is disabled. So he 117 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:13.320 starts to descend. I then looked at the altimeter. It was showing seventeen 118 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.679 hundred feet. Okay, so they were at twenty five hundred feet. He's 119 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:22.600 brought them down to seventeen hundred feet to hopefully have this thing missed them. 120 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:28.600 At this point, they contact the tower at the Mansfield Airport, like, 121 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:35.919 what the hell is that coming at us? But for some reason reason the 122 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:43.240 communications are garbled and interfered with so coincidence, I think not. I think 123 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:50.039 not exactly. So then he goes on to say the object seemed to be 124 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:56.759 descending with the helicopter as the helicopter came down. The object came down, 125 00:10:56.279 --> 00:11:01.600 but it was still headed for our road side, as if to hit the 126 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:07.559 helicopter from the right side. So he starts to you know, coin At 127 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:13.120 this point, obviously they're all fearing for their life. They think they're about 128 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:20.799 to crash. He starts evasive maneuvers. Um crew chief yanisek he he is 129 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:28.799 terrified about a mid air collision at this point. Um. But then something 130 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:35.279 very strange happened. The object goes around to the front of the helicopter, 131 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:43.639 slightly above it and stops. And that's a good trick. Yeah, stops 132 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:50.039 in midair. Yes, there you go. At this time, and this 133 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:56.399 again is the quote, a light came and swung around ninety degrees toward the 134 00:11:56.440 --> 00:12:03.960 helicopter. It came through the lexiglass, and the entire cabin turned green from 135 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:09.840 the light. Store that green light there, Yes, that's the whole light 136 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:15.480 is. The whole cabin is bathed in green light from an object stopped in 137 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:18.919 front of you. That almost hits you. Yeah, a little nervous at 138 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:26.600 this point. Yeah, you're sweating bullets. Perhaps you're probably saying a few 139 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:33.440 prayers your bath. Yeah. The light was pyramid shaped that beamed down and 140 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:39.600 came through the front of a helicopter. And this is another from Healey. 141 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:46.200 He said, this was just a humongous green light shooting down on us. 142 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:52.080 A very definite cone shape to the light, so it wasn't just a big, 143 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:58.519 broad, random beam. You could look at the light and actually see 144 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:05.879 the beam. Okay. At this point in this light, which they think 145 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:11.159 is a few seconds long, they see the craft is. Depending on the 146 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:15.799 angle, either looks like a cigar or a disc. So I guess whether 147 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.879 you're seeing it on the side, it's tilted a little, a red light 148 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:26.679 at the nose, a dome on top. It's solid metallic structure, and 149 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:30.919 the lights are reflecting off the structure, and it was solid. You could 150 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:37.480 not see stars through this craft. So it's a solid metallic object with incredible 151 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:46.240 bizarre flight characteristics beaming a light on them. Okay, so remember he had 152 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:52.600 that collective down. They are in the configuration of descending and rather rapidly, 153 00:13:54.080 --> 00:14:01.320 and it's impossible for a helicopter unless there's this huge updraft or a star Trek 154 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:07.600 tractor beam to lift the helicopter. However, in a matter of a couple 155 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:16.240 of seconds, the helicopter goes from seventeen hundred feet to thirty five hundred feet. 156 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.080 Now, if you're on an elevator, you feel right, you feel 157 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:26.720 something going up. They felt nothing. Their stomachs should have been on the 158 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:33.759 cabin floor right, right, almost two thousand feet in a matter of seconds, 159 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:37.799 right, they should have definitely been aware of that physical sensation. Yes, 160 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:45.519 so it stops, the craft stops. It's got this green light. 161 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:50.840 It's pulling the helicopter up towards it again. That has to be terrifying. 162 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:58.879 And just when they think all right, we're probably goners the craft to the 163 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:03.440 beam, the green beam goes off and the craft in a heartbeat, shoots 164 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:13.320 off to the west and is absolutely gone. So when they land, you 165 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:18.279 would imagine they have some stories to tell, but this is Army Reserve. 166 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:24.639 They're probably not big on, you know, people telling stories. But Coin 167 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:28.759 realized this was too important. He just had the crap scared out of him. 168 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:33.440 His crew was in danger, he reports, He talks to the media 169 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:37.639 right away, he goes soon after, he goes on Dick Cavitt. You 170 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:43.759 can go go to YouTube look up the Coin, the Coin incident, helicopter 171 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:50.279 incident. He did not give the military any chance to bury the story, 172 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:56.759 which kudos to him. That took some guts. That took some guts, 173 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:00.600 Yeah, absolutely did. But you know, he was highly trained. There 174 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:07.440 was over twenty years of experience amongst the four crew members. So you know, 175 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:11.759 how else how do you explain this? What what kind of craft can 176 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:18.000 pull up a helicopter in a couple of seconds? And you know, Linda, 177 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.759 I think it's important for the listeners. I know you have been on 178 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:26.919 helicopters and I've had of being on them a couple of times in as a 179 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:30.519 police officer. They are completely different than being on an airplane. It is 180 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:36.320 not the same experience. I mean I certainly wasn't piloting them, but they 181 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:41.399 were not anything close to flying, even on a small airplane like one of 182 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:48.039 those little puddle jumpers. I mean right, So to think how you know 183 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.279 how easily susceptible they are to the you know, the air currents, you 184 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:55.200 feel it a lot more. It's certainly had me grabbing the first time it 185 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:57.120 took off. I was grabbing that seat a little hard. For a couple 186 00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:00.080 of minutes, I realize was okay, this is normal, but it's you 187 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.519 know, it's I've flown dozens and dozens of times and airplanes. It's a 188 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:07.440 different experience. I can't imagine you're in this helicopter number one. It's small, 189 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:11.559 it's cramped, not a lot of there's no real room. You know, 190 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.839 you're wearing a helmet or they've got their communication system is all you have 191 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:19.319 and you're you feel everything. So for them, I mean, you're getting 192 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:26.839 pulled several thousand feet within seconds. And to have that experience and not have 193 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.519 them even feel it, like just all of a sudden, we're here at 194 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:33.720 one thousand and ruppit three thousand. I mean, you're going to feel that 195 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:38.680 under any other condition. So what what kind of technology was this? You 196 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:41.920 know, how would they have this ability? Yeah? And so fast too. 197 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.559 It wasn't a gradual thing. It's like boom, there there you are. 198 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:56.319 So I do have to mention the official stance is that it was a 199 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:03.640 meteor. I mean yeah, because meteors paced helicopters and have tractor beams to 200 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.279 pull them up. Well, at least it wasn't swamp gats or venus. 201 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:12.079 Yeah, I guess, I guess. But how stupid is that? But 202 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:17.000 you know, he could say, oh, it was a hoax with these 203 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:21.279 four guys decide to get together and play a joke, which would be really 204 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:26.640 bad idea in the Army reserve. But there were other witnesses. Fortunately, 205 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:34.559 so like the Governor of Ohio around this time saw a UFO vertical amber light. 206 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:41.359 So the governor himself saw something. That same night. Nearby, Lee 207 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:48.240 Kaiser and his sister were in their backyard. They saw an oval object with 208 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:57.559 red lights. Then everything was bathed in green light. So remember the cockpit 209 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:03.960 was filled with green light. They're standing in their backyard near Man's Field and 210 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:12.759 everything turns green. Okay, so that's a pretty good substantiation. Jean Elias 211 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:18.279 is, she's in bed. She lives six miles from Mansfield Airport. She 212 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:23.359 hears a low loud helicopter. You know, she hears traffical air traffic all 213 00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:29.720 the time. She knows this is not normal. She's afraid that this helicopter 214 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:33.119 is going to crash. So she does the only same thing. She hides 215 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:41.960 her head under the pillow because clearly that's good, that's the best protection for 216 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:47.680 that. But she pulls her head out of the pillow because her son John 217 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:53.319 in his bedroom is yelling that his bedroom has suddenly lit up with a green 218 00:19:53.440 --> 00:20:03.440 light. So CUFO is busy that night again Mansfield area green light again. 219 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:11.839 Um, several people Brian Stevens, Glenn Stout and a couple of coworkers watched 220 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:17.599 this alighted object and in their words, they thought it was going to collide 221 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:23.400 with a helicopter. So people on the ground seeing the green light, they're 222 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:30.839 seeing the UFO and they also thought this object. So these guys were you 223 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:36.279 know, these uh army, the crew on the on the helicopter that they 224 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:41.200 told the truth and they were corroborating witnesses on the ground. And last a 225 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:48.440 woman by the name of Judas Ham. She said she almost screamed because she 226 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:55.119 thought two planes were about to crash, so she also saw it. So 227 00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:02.079 this is there's there's so much, you know, to get into with this 228 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:07.319 case, but I love it because they are credible pilots who thought their lives 229 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:12.640 were in danger, you know, did the right thing, evasive maneuver, 230 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:21.000 you know, invasive maneuvers, and then had the guts to start talking to 231 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:26.359 the media immediately. And you know, we've had this conversation many times. 232 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:32.680 Military pilots, Number one, they're highly trained. They don't just put anybody 233 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:38.640 behind the controls of you know, multimillion dollar helicopters or airplanes. Right, 234 00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:44.119 this doesn't happen you know, these are men who and women who have been 235 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:48.480 extremely well trained, their experienced, they know what they're seeing. He's you 236 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:52.640 know, it's not his first flight, right, and I'm sure he would 237 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:56.799 know a meet here versus a green light. And you know, we're talking 238 00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.319 in nineteen seventy three. Today, if a military personnel came I Ford and 239 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:02.759 said hey, I saw something, it would be like, oh, okay, 240 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:04.559 yeah, cool, yeah, what happened. But in nineteen seventy three, 241 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:10.559 that just didn't happen. That that's to me enhances the credibility because they 242 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:12.680 had a lot to lose, not much to gain. You weren't you weren't 243 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:18.480 certainly getting famous here from it. And when you have other witnesses corroborating it 244 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:25.920 in that area seeing the same object, the same light, how do you 245 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.200 chalk up you know, how do you blame it on a meteor? Yeah, 246 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:33.160 and it's questioning intelligence. What do you saying about your pilot if that's 247 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:38.680 the official response? Exactly? Exactly. Yeah. So altogether, this I 248 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:44.200 think is one of the most important cases. If you were, you know, 249 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:49.640 put together a list of best evidence cases U s see. This is 250 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:56.000 the kind of thing. This drives me nuts with the new UH government to 251 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.799 UFO task Force, study group or whatever that I want to look at anything, 252 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:04.440 you know, any of the old cases. They might want to check 253 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:11.000 this one out. Um, you have four competent crew members, you have 254 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:17.880 ground witnesses. Um, can you prove what it was? Do you have 255 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:22.359 you know, high tech flear you know images or anything? You know? 256 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:32.759 No, but it's certainly something that builds the case that fifty years ago this 257 00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:37.799 stuff was going on and and big time. So UM, I think this 258 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:41.960 is a good point to take our first break. I actually kind of forgot 259 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.880 we have breaks that it was hard to take this story. I know, 260 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.839 how do you how do you stop? So Neil? You know, flag 261 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:52.039 us down if we go off the off the reservation here. But well, 262 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:59.559 we'll be right back after this short break. Hudson River Radio dot Com. 263 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.839 Jennifer Lorenzo here. Did you know there used to be a missile launching site 264 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.359 right here in Rocking County? Did you know that Alexander Hamilton, George Washington, 265 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.359 and Aaron Burke all spent time in the Hudson Valley? Join me for 266 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:17.240 let's talk history, where we discuss interesting stories and facts about our own Rockland 267 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:22.839 County Join me for Let's Talk History on Hudson River Radio dot com. Subscribe 268 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:29.160 to Let's Talk History on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart, or wherever you 269 00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:36.880 get your podcasts. I'm Linda Zimmerman. Join Michael Warden and me for Murder 270 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.880 in the Hudson Valley. We'll look into notorious homicide cases from around the region 271 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.119 and follow the case from the moment the crime scene is discovered up to the 272 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:52.400 final verdict. We'll discuss the suspects, evidence, forensic techniques, and legal 273 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:57.480 battles used to identify and convict the guilty. Murder in the Hudson Valley only 274 00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:03.079 on Hudson River Radio dot com. Subscribe to Murder in the Hudson Valley on 275 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:08.839 Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts Hudson River 276 00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:19.279 Radio dot com. And we are back from our first break Hudson River Radio 277 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:26.160 and new headquarters. UM Michael Warden, Linda Zimmerman, and we just heard 278 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:30.559 the fascinating case, UM, but now we have another equally interesting case. 279 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.000 Flenda. And again, if you're just tuning in, this is all about 280 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:38.039 helicopters and UFOs. You hear a lot about pilots. You know commercial pilots, 281 00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:42.559 fighter pilots, but you don't often hear about the helicopter encounters. And 282 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:45.920 I believe Linda the next story, we're going to turn the tables on the 283 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:55.279 UFO a little bit exactly. First case, UFOs after helicopters. Now we're 284 00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:02.759 going helicopters after UFOs. And this is we're going back to December twenty ninth, 285 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:07.759 nineteen eighty. And that might ring end of December nineteen eighty might ring 286 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:11.480 a bell with some people out there. There was two days earlier a case 287 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:19.200 known as Rendelsham so over in England. So it's just interesting to see how, 288 00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:26.240 you know, we had Pascagoula a week before the coin incident. May 289 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:30.759 just be coincidence, but it's curious to see how some of these major cases 290 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:34.839 are within days or weeks of one another. So this one, we are 291 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:41.759 going to Texas and we have Betty Cash, Vicky Landrum and vicky seven year 292 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:48.319 old son grandson. Excuse me, Kolby. Now they were trying to find 293 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:52.279 a place to play bingo, go to a bingo hall, but apparently Monday's 294 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.759 bingo halls are closed. This was not knowledge I was aware of, but 295 00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:00.319 I don't know they still have being go halls or they just do it at 296 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:03.720 casinos now, I think, you know, I think a lot of places 297 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.720 doing like firehouses, senior centers and oh okay, okay, I think it's 298 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.640 still got a big following, you know. Okay, So too bad they 299 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.640 didn't find a bingo hall because they ran into a bit of trouble. They 300 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:22.799 were driving from New Caney to Dayton, Texas, driving an olds cutlass. 301 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.559 It's about nine pm, and they see a light and figure it out. 302 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:32.759 It's just you know, normal jet or something air traffic from Houston Airport. 303 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.920 But it's moving closer and closer, and the closer it gets, they realize 304 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:45.119 it's glowing red quote like heated metal. So the subject looks superheated and it's 305 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:51.319 diamond shape. There aren't many UFOs diamond shape. I think I can think 306 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:56.440 of maybe five offhand. You know, there's certainly more, but right a 307 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:02.359 rare. That's a rare, rare shape for sure. So it's a glowing 308 00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:07.519 red diamond shape, very very low and as if that isn't bad enough, 309 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:14.680 flames are coming out underneath it. I would probably turn around and punch the 310 00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:19.400 accelerator. Well, Colby's very scared. Um. But Vicky, who was 311 00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:26.279 very religious, tells her grandson that's Jesus. He will not hurt us. 312 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:30.720 Um. Well, that's an interesting interpretation. Um. But it turns out 313 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:37.519 it was not Jesus. Um. Betty stops the car about one hundred and 314 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.920 thirty feet away. She wanted to get a better look. Now, if 315 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:47.359 there's something glowing red hot, spitting flames, don't get out of the car. 316 00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:49.880 No, right, No, I've gotten my good enough look. I'm 317 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.839 not getting a second. Yes, I have my little ones with me. 318 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.839 Yeah, so Betty's just here. She gets out of the car. She 319 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:07.039 feels extreme, extreme burning heat, so she tries to get back into the 320 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:11.279 car. She grabs the car handle, burns her hand. It's so hot 321 00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:15.319 she has to use her coat to open the car. That's the kind of 322 00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:19.440 heat, you know, get away. The interior of the car was so 323 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:25.319 hot that when Vicky put her hand on the dashboard, it left an impression. 324 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:27.920 It was probably, you know, like a plastic vinyl type thing. 325 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:36.359 Right. That's so, the plastic was so hot it was pliable. Colby 326 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.319 is the only smart one. He's trying to hide under the dashboard, which 327 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:47.119 probably protected him from what I am assuming was some sort of radiation as we 328 00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:52.599 will as we will see, So the craft starts to move up off and 329 00:29:52.680 --> 00:30:00.960 this is when the helicopters appear and encircle the craft. All right, we 330 00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:08.039 are not talking one, two, or even ten helicopters. They counted twenty 331 00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:14.799 three. And these are just not ordinary little you know thing. These are 332 00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:18.920 the large twin rotor chinooks. You don't know what, Yeah, you know 333 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:23.160 what a rotor at the huge they're huge. Yeah. Who has chinooks? 334 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:32.400 Well the military and who right, who else would have twenty three chinooks to 335 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:38.440 encircle a UFO. Okay. Some people speculate it was an experimental craft gone 336 00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:45.000 wrong and they were escorting it somewhere. I don't, you know, whatever 337 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:52.319 the case is. Clearly this is a military operation. Now these chinooks and 338 00:30:52.039 --> 00:31:00.920 chinooks and craft finally move off. Other people saw there was a police officer, 339 00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:07.240 Lamar Walker. He and his wife, They saw twelve helicopters in the 340 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:11.960 area, so they didn't see the whole but you know, certainly corroborated Betty 341 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:18.519 and Vicki's account, and others saw a diamond shaped craft with flames coming out 342 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.920 of it. In fact, one man, Jerry McDonald, described the flames 343 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:32.960 as like in a settling torch. So either this craft was poorly constructed or 344 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:40.960 it was in distress something you shouldn't have, you know, burning flames coming 345 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:48.440 out of a craft at at low altitudes. So they saw that this whole 346 00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.920 thing took about twenty minutes. They go home, you know, the crafts 347 00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:59.559 move off. They go home that night, all three of them, burning 348 00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:07.319 sensation in their eyes and skin, headaches, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. 349 00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:15.079 Betty more so because she's the one who got out. She went to the 350 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:21.440 hospital and the doctor, her doctor, a doctor McClelland, was sure she 351 00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:27.759 had been exposed to ionizing radiation. Her hair was falling out, she was 352 00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:32.200 too weak to walk, her fingernails started falling out, her skin was blistering, 353 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.039 She had blisters in her eyes, in her mouth. Sounds a lot 354 00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:44.279 like radiation poisoning. Yeah, rightes, Yeah, So they even she's in 355 00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:47.400 the hospital the first time, twelve days. They even put a sign on 356 00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:54.839 her room door hazard, you know, radiation hazard. They didn't want people 357 00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:59.799 going in there. They thought she was so irradiated that she would get them 358 00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:05.039 sick. She comes home, she goes back for another fifteen days, goes 359 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:08.039 home, goes back again. So she was very, very sick. Vicky 360 00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:15.279 and Colby were also sick, but just not to that extent. Betty eventually 361 00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:23.200 developed breast cancer and she died eighteen years to the day of this incident, 362 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:32.359 and just a lifetime of horrible, horrible health issues. Vicky lived to a 363 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:38.920 ripe old age, but had some issues. Now, very interesting, there 364 00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:46.240 is a story which has some corroboration, that where the UFO was hovering over 365 00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:54.680 the road, a unmarked road crew. Now the local county town has no 366 00:33:55.039 --> 00:34:01.480 record of any of their road crews going out there. They stripped off the 367 00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:09.639 top layers of pavement where this craft had been hovering and repaved. That's that's 368 00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:15.320 pretty interesting. Yes, yep, well we didn't do it, Nope, 369 00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:22.960 nothing to see here. So clearly it probably left burnmarks or radiation. And 370 00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:27.360 you know why we've been doing this. I just did a quick Google maps 371 00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:31.960 check um the area of Dayton, Texas. It's near Houston. Apparently are 372 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:37.440 multiple military basis. It's not only is Fort Hood you know, reasonably close, 373 00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:43.880 but you have joint Reserve based Ellington Houston MEPs. You have joint Forces 374 00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:47.960 Reserve Center, State of Texas National Guard UM just and then you have you 375 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:54.360 US Army Reserve Boma. I'm looking at it. The whole area is saturated 376 00:34:54.519 --> 00:35:00.960 with military basis, so there's no wonder how they could easily stir up twenty 377 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:06.039 three shot the helicopters. And these are the helicopters. If you see videos 378 00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:08.840 of them lifting a tank, you know they're they're huge, so you know 379 00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:13.719 they'll flight tanks and vehicles and stuff. If there's tanging from them like nothing 380 00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:16.000 like they're picking up a you know it's hunka truck. I mean, it's 381 00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:21.440 fascinating that we can have that technology. But the fact that you have twenty 382 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:25.800 three of them, it's just I would not suspect it's a experimental craft. 383 00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:30.880 At that point, are you going and ripping up the pavement you have radiation? 384 00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:36.960 Yeah, it's very odd. So because they were so sick, they 385 00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.440 started contacting their senators, the Air Force. They got lawyer. They hired 386 00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:49.280 lawyer Peter Gerston, who was in the Hudson Valley for many years trying to 387 00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:55.480 you know, was an advocate for the during the Hudson Valley Wave. So 388 00:35:55.719 --> 00:36:00.000 he was trying to get the truth out then, So that was a famili 389 00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:05.719 your name. So in nineteen eighty one they brought a lawsuit against the federal 390 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:09.400 government for twenty million dollars because they say, hey, you know what was 391 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:15.039 going on? These were your helicopters, that might even been your craft. 392 00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:21.360 We got sick as a result. But no surprise, it languished for five 393 00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:30.039 years and the case was dismissed as the plaintiffs hadn't proven that the helicopters were 394 00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:37.480 from the US government. Well where were they from? And was the US 395 00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.519 government really going to be forthcoming? Yep, that was ours? We messed 396 00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:46.119 up. Yeah, sorry about that. So yeah, Betty said, there 397 00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:52.599 just was no justice left in the United States. And as a final insult, 398 00:36:52.760 --> 00:37:00.199 during the trial, government witnesses testified the US military doesn't have any i'm 399 00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:04.920 in shaped aircraft like they'd tell us if they did. Well, that's what 400 00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.800 I was going to say. Is that something they would really testify too and 401 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:09.239 say, oh, hey, you know, by the way, we do 402 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:14.119 have a secret aircraft or you know it's a diamond shape. We're working on 403 00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:20.719 it, but don't tell anybody else speak eachwhere. But yeah, I mean 404 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.400 they had to. I mean in retrospect, there would be no other outcome. 405 00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:27.280 We could look at it now and go, what were they thinking? 406 00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:32.199 The government's never going to acknowledge anything in nineteen eighty one, right right even 407 00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:36.559 now what they're what they're kind of releasing seems to be like, I'll tell 408 00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.239 you what we want to tell you what we think will sound good. Yeah, 409 00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:46.039 but and here's the shortened lower resolution video. Yes, yeah, please 410 00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:51.320 look at this early days of YouTube, you know, like four twenty resolution 411 00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:53.719 or something, and you have to look at the pixels and squeeze your eyes. 412 00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:59.199 But yeah, that's yeah, this committee wants to do something. Probably 413 00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:01.320 in a heartbeat, they can say, all right, what was the military 414 00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:07.039 doing December twenty nine, nineteen eighty near Dayton, Texas. Let's get this 415 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:13.400 one, you know, out clid because that obviously the knowledge is you don't 416 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:21.880 scramble twenty three chinooks and not have a record of it somewhere. So yeah, 417 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:27.960 so that was a case of UFOs surrounding and chasing the I've excuse me, 418 00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:31.800 helicopters surrounding and chasing the UFOs. So neil, why don't we take 419 00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:38.679 our second break before we get into some of the shorter interesting cases This is 420 00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:46.079 Hudson River Radio dot com, your local Rockland County station Kale nucom from paranormally 421 00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:52.760 Yours here seen any weird looking creatures lately? I mean, besides your coworkers, 422 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:57.000 family and friends. The Hudson Valley actually is said to have its own 423 00:38:57.079 --> 00:39:02.079 water month, sir, and even possibly sasquatch or is that something else? 424 00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:08.119 Join me, Gail Newcomb for paranormally Yours. We'll be exploring the unexplained and 425 00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:14.320 the mysterious from all around the Hudson Valley. Join me for paranormally Yours on 426 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:20.880 Hudson River Radio dot com. Subscribe to paranormally Yours on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 427 00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:28.360 iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts. Karen Knowe here. Did 428 00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:32.639 you know that you can now subscribe to all of Hudson River Radio's podcasts, 429 00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:37.880 including the Angel Quest Show, and of course they're always available right in our 430 00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:43.760 Hudson River Radio app. You can hear our podcasts anytime and anywhere. You 431 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:46.719 can also sponsor one of our shows. To get your messages heard locally and 432 00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:52.360 around the world, Just shoot an email to info at Hudson River Radio dot 433 00:39:52.360 --> 00:40:00.000 com and we'll get you started. That's info at Hudson River Radio dot com. 434 00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:05.039 Subscribe to the Angel Quest show, an Apple podcasts, Spotify, iHeart, 435 00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:15.960 or wherever you get your podcasts. Is Hudson River Radio dot com. 436 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:22.679 And one of us should bring us back. Sorry, I was looking up 437 00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:25.440 at the other monitor. I got two monitors going here, but welcome back. 438 00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:29.960 I guess the Hudson River Radio and UFO headquarters. And you know, 439 00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:35.679 Linda, we're talking about helicopters and UFOs and here in the Hudson Valley we 440 00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:45.440 have Indian Point Nuclear power plant and certainly no shortage of UFO sightings connected with 441 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:49.360 that location. And indeed it's a common theme in a lot of UFO sightings 442 00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:52.400 throughout not just the United States, but the world. Um, you know, 443 00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:58.039 nuclear power plants seemed to be of interest or you know a lot of 444 00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:01.599 sightings. And there was one since here and my computers like doing things in 445 00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:06.440 the nineteen eighties and the end point there was one instance with a massive craft 446 00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:13.480 with military helicopters chasing after it, which again, you know, it's nice 447 00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:16.159 to see once in a while we get to chase them. Although I'm not 448 00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:21.280 sure what you do. And it turns around too, you know so. 449 00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:24.519 But but again, in the Hudson Valley, we certainly have no shortage of 450 00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:30.360 military bases. In the eighties, Stewart would have been at full capacity. 451 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:35.360 I'm not sure when they started to really scale that down, but yeah, 452 00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:37.480 and there's still the Air National Guard there, which I have us will save 453 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:43.119 to the end. I do have a helicopter at the Air National Guards story 454 00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:49.280 at Stewart. So yeah. Over the years, we've mentioned so many cases 455 00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.679 where witnesses say, you know, the craft started moving off and the helicopters 456 00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:59.280 were coming after it. So that is not uncommon in the Hudson Valley. 457 00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:05.400 But let's go for a much more recent one out to Arizona. February of 458 00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:14.119 twenty twenty one, there was an unidentified object in sensitive airspace near the This 459 00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:19.400 I was not familiar with the Davis Montham Air Force Space near Tucson. Ever, 460 00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:24.760 hear of that. No, No, a US Customs and Border Patrol 461 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:34.360 helicopter was sent to investigate and whatever this object was almost collided with it. 462 00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:42.559 So here again we have, you know, an object almost hitting a helicopter. 463 00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:49.679 Well, the Tucson PD Police Department sends up their helicopter and they see 464 00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:55.599 a single steady green craft with a single steady green light on the underside, 465 00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:02.159 and it is now flying free Leaf who controlled airspace between the Air Force space 466 00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:08.760 and the Tucson Airport, so there should not be any craft there, and 467 00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:16.719 you would hope the military was not testing something almost running into Border Patrol helicopters 468 00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:27.639 or Police Department helicopters, one would hope. So the pilot the crew of 469 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:35.559 the Tucson PD helicopter said the craft was making highly erratic maneuvers in a manner 470 00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:43.119 to hamper the crew, the crew's ability to see it, to attract it 471 00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:47.400 visually. So they're trying to head towards the craft to get a good look 472 00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:51.840 at it. It goes under them, it goes behind them, it goes 473 00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:58.920 around them, and this is great. I was trying to find an analogy 474 00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:05.320 to explain this because I saw the path. They had a diagram of the 475 00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:09.760 flight path of the helicopter trying to chase this thing to get a good look 476 00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:15.239 at it. It looped around fourteen times. And what I realized it looked 477 00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:22.920 like you know those incredible chocolate Hostess cupcakes, Yes, with the little white 478 00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:28.719 swirl on the top. That is what the path of the helicopter looked like 479 00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:32.800 just kept swirling around and around and around fourteen times. This thing was messing 480 00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:40.920 with it. It was just playing cat and mousey. It was over seventy 481 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:46.800 minutes they chased it. It went up to a height of fourteen thousand feet. 482 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:52.320 The maneuvers it was doing, they said, no commercial drone can fly 483 00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:57.960 that long, far and high. What air traffic controls seeing this? They 484 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:05.440 actually called Washington d see somebody there. They needed to alert something is going 485 00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:08.280 on here. I'm sure they have radar and all. I don't know, 486 00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:15.519 I'm sure they have all kinds of interesting information. The official explanation was that 487 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:22.920 it was a highly modified drone satellite controlled. Who's doing that if not the 488 00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:31.360 military? Yeah, that's that doesn't make sense. No, so the pilot, 489 00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:36.159 you know, he doesn't want to say I just saw UFO, but 490 00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:39.920 he said, if it was a drone, which I think they're probably all 491 00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:47.480 very skeptical, it was a very sophisticated specialized craft and able to perform night 492 00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:53.760 like no other UAS un manned aircraft system. It was obvious that the controller 493 00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:59.800 had clear sight of both the helicopters tracking it by the way it would or 494 00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:06.239 bit us and abruptly fly behind us an attempt to avoid our visual contact. 495 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:12.880 It was quite clear though that this was not like any other uas that we 496 00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:23.119 have experienced, and both the FBI and FAA were investigating tips. So again, 497 00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:29.159 would the FBI get involved, would the military keep this a secret and 498 00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:37.800 mess with border patrol and police helicopters? And do they have maybe they have 499 00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:43.960 craft capable of doing this, But most people involved in this said no, 500 00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:47.800 it wasn't. It wasn't a drone. That was no. The fact that 501 00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:55.559 it's I mean, it's under intelligent control. If it's purposely moving away from 502 00:46:55.599 --> 00:47:00.320 the helicopters and changing direction, you know, if the helicopter maneuver is one 503 00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:06.519 way and the drone is instantly reacting. I mean, what kind of drone 504 00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:09.360 operator would you have to have on the ground, you know, what kind 505 00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:15.320 of reflexes to watch a video feed and hope? I mean, you're going 506 00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:20.079 to see everything happening in real time like three sixty on a drone. I 507 00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:22.639 just don't think that's a plausible explanation. I mean, yeah, yeah, 508 00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:28.840 that's what they were saying. It couldn't been you know, Joe drone operator 509 00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:32.199 with his iPhone controlled thing on the ground because he wouldn't have been able to 510 00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:37.039 this was this went far and wide and fourteen thousand feet now, so that's 511 00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:42.239 why they're saying it had to be somebody with a satellite control. I'm sorry, 512 00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:47.280 how many people have access to satellite controlled drone systems? Yeah, that's 513 00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:52.320 um right. If it's not the military, then what was it? Right? 514 00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:57.719 Right? So yeah, so that was another case. These poor helicopter 515 00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:02.920 guy. You know, you can just imagine the fresh stration, this police 516 00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:08.599 officer trying to get a visual and it just keeps, you know, running 517 00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:14.960 circles, What speed, what maneuverability? Did it happen? Seventy minutes of 518 00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:21.320 this? So yeah, great case and from twenty twenty one, you know, 519 00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:23.519 not all that long ago. So will we ever find the truth? 520 00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:30.599 I doubt it. And again credible witnesses with a lot to lose. Even 521 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:34.760 though again we say it all the time it's much more acceptable today to come 522 00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:39.599 forward, it still is very risky and not everybody's comfortable. Even police officers 523 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:44.639 and military still don't have that. Yeah, so when they do, there's 524 00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:49.159 you know, something to be taken seriously, yep, yep, So let's 525 00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:53.480 just do one last quick one. I wanted to finish with helicopters going after 526 00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:58.199 the UFO. I wanted to balance here, fair and balance, but you 527 00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:02.440 know, have two k is of each essentially, so this is only back 528 00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:07.119 in twenty thirteen, and it's an our territory. Here the New York State 529 00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:15.840 Thruway by exit seventeen in the New windsor Newburgh area by the if you want 530 00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:22.320 to look this up, exit seventeen where seventeen K crosses the Thruway, you're 531 00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:30.199 familiar with that area over there. Okay, it's August thirteenth, eight twenty 532 00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:36.000 pm, so it's it's not fully dark yet, there's still some light and 533 00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:38.960 the witness. One of the reasons I wanted to make this is a new 534 00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:44.800 case in my new book. This hadn't been published before, and I thought 535 00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:50.760 it was important to put this in because the witness was an Army ranger, 536 00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:58.320 which you're not an ordinary person if you're an army ranger. He had received 537 00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:05.119 two purple Hearts and a bronze Star for tours of duty in Iraq and Kosovo. 538 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:09.239 He had those two purple hearts because he had been shot twice. So 539 00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:16.199 this man went through some stuff when he left the military, he became a 540 00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:25.159 civilian flight medic. He knows aircraft, particularly helicopters. Okay, so he's 541 00:50:25.639 --> 00:50:30.280 he had dropped his son off at I believe Newark Airport and was driving home 542 00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:36.320 up the through way and he sees four cars pulled over on the side of 543 00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:40.039 the road with people out. Well, with his training, oh, can 544 00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:45.320 I help if somebody injured? Instinctively, doesn't even think twice, pulls over 545 00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:50.719 to see if he can render any aid, you know, being a medic. 546 00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:57.920 Then he realized there's bright spotlights on the trees. There's several emergency vehicles 547 00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:02.360 on the overpass of seventeen. Hey, there's New York State troopers. There's 548 00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:07.360 all these you know, emergency responders all over the place, and like, 549 00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:13.519 I don't see an accident. What's going on? Well, then he realizes 550 00:51:13.719 --> 00:51:19.079 they're all looking at a very large, round, white light the size of 551 00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:24.719 a house. No navigation lights, no control surfaces, no wings, anything 552 00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:31.000 like that. It's moving only about a hundred feet above the trees. It 553 00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:39.519 stops and hovers silently, doesn't move for thirty seconds. It was moving west 554 00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:45.920 to east before it stopped. Then it starts moving east to west and This 555 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:53.840 is a man who's Iraq Kosovo civilian, you know, flight medic. He's 556 00:51:53.840 --> 00:52:00.440 like, what the hell am I looking at? And why were troopers there? 557 00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:07.079 Why were emergency responders at? What was going on? I cannot find 558 00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:15.199 anything from that date about anything that went on there. But at this point, 559 00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:20.159 as it's moving slowly back and forth, one hundred feet above the trees, 560 00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:24.599 that is low, that is very low, he finally hears something and 561 00:52:24.679 --> 00:52:30.760 it's helicopters, very familiar Lacota helicopters. Now, these generally do not have 562 00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:37.760 weapons on board there, you know, not for attack purposes. So he 563 00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:42.480 knows a Lacota helicopter three, not one, not, We've got three of 564 00:52:42.519 --> 00:52:46.679 them. They love to send multiple helicopters, and they are headed straight for 565 00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:52.400 this object. And you can imagine everybody is spellbound. What's going to happen 566 00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:57.639 when you know? What do you do when you catch it? If you 567 00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:02.039 catch it right? Well, the object at this point, with the helicopters 568 00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:07.320 bearing down on it, it blinks rapidly three times, he said, like 569 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:15.360 Morse code, then shot straight up and out of sight and gone. Helicopters 570 00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:22.519 arrive. There's nothing there. This whole sighting lasted for his part six minutes. 571 00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:28.519 But remember all these cars had pulled off time had the enough time for 572 00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:34.320 the emergency responders and the troopers to be there. So how long was this 573 00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:42.760 sighting? So I looked up currently Stuart Air National Guard Base, which is 574 00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:45.039 at Stewart Airport, you know, used to be the Air Force base now 575 00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:51.000 it's Air National Guard. And I got this right from their website. The 576 00:53:51.159 --> 00:54:00.920 second Aviation Detachment of UH seventy two la Coda helicopters is base stats Stewart. 577 00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:06.840 Of course this was twenty thirteen, but there were Lacoda helicopters at Stuart. 578 00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:14.679 What happened? Why were they scrambled? Who? Who sent them? Right? 579 00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:21.880 Who has the authority to order? Air National Guard kind of kind of 580 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:27.079 state troopers called the Air National Guard and said send me three Lacoda. I 581 00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:29.199 don't know if they could, they can ask, I guess, I mean, 582 00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:32.400 I'm pretty sure it was. It was the Lacoda that I m took 583 00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:38.559 my certification through the Air National Guard to be on the helicopter to learn how 584 00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:44.280 to use their um. You know, they have sophisticated cameras. So they 585 00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:46.480 were training local police departments to send people to learn how to use some of 586 00:54:46.519 --> 00:54:52.840 the equipment for search and rescue. Okay, great crime scene use, great 587 00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:54.760 experience. And I got to go the helicopter and sit behind this camera that 588 00:54:54.800 --> 00:55:00.360 I think you could see things miles away like it was in crazy technolo oology. 589 00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:06.840 So possibly they have video of this object then yeah, I mean I 590 00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:13.559 this was back in twenty fourteen. Okay, this happened twenty thirteen, twenty. 591 00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:15.280 I'm trying to remember when I got I got promoted the sergeant in June 592 00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:19.960 of twenty fifteen. I was still detective, so I had to be around 593 00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.800 thirteen or fourteen maybe, yeah, Okay, so they had I don't know 594 00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:27.519 if they recorded it. Um. I would imagine if if they had the 595 00:55:27.559 --> 00:55:30.800 capability on the helicopter, they why wouldn't they. Yeah, I wonder if 596 00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:37.280 you can can you Foya Air National Guard, it's worth a shot. Yeah. 597 00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:40.480 I don't know. They could say now it's military secret, sir, 598 00:55:40.679 --> 00:55:50.880 it's classified. But again I love this case because incredible witness you know, 599 00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:54.119 knows his stuff, and he's not out looking for UFOL. He's driving home 600 00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:59.039 and he thinks there's an accident and Kenny stop and help and then like, 601 00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:01.960 oh my God, what the hell is this? And the fact that it 602 00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:07.159 I love. I can just picture this rap I know that area. I 603 00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:12.480 can just picture that, you know, seventeen K overpass over the throughway rapidly 604 00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:17.599 blink and gone. But it sounds like, you know, similar details to 605 00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:22.360 a lot of those Hudson Valley sightings during the big wave, you know, 606 00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:27.159 people pulling over on the highways yep, and just staring up next to their 607 00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:31.480 cars. Very similar in that respect. And an army ranger. I mean, 608 00:56:31.519 --> 00:56:36.719 you're not going to get much better credibility here any yeah. Yeah, 609 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:38.440 and damn it? Where was I? Where was I that night? Why 610 00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:43.079 wasn't I? Why wasn't I driving on seventeen K? I mean, I 611 00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:49.639 want to know did did this craft? Was it hovering? And people had 612 00:56:49.679 --> 00:56:54.079 an accident? That's why, you know, emergency vehicles were there. There's 613 00:56:54.159 --> 00:57:00.719 so many questions and I just don't have answers to it. So maybe I 614 00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:06.119 need to start doing sending out a few foils so might be might be worth 615 00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:13.639 it. Yeah, we can't hurt ken it no no? Yeah? Yeah, 616 00:57:13.760 --> 00:57:16.679 or you know, putting you even deeper into an FBI watch list? 617 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:24.000 What what you know? What is she Foying a Air National Guard for just 618 00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:29.280 think someday on the FAI website. You're um, your dossier will be released 619 00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:36.000 next to al Capone and all the other people that they that's it O, 620 00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:40.440 that'man file. Love it. Well, it's going to be some interesting rating. 621 00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:46.000 Um So anyway that I mean, we could have talked for hours on 622 00:57:46.119 --> 00:57:52.440 helicopters and UFOs, but gave you a couple cases of you know, the 623 00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:58.719 UFOs harassing the helicopters and and vice versa. And there's so many more, 624 00:57:58.840 --> 00:58:02.440 so many more. Um. But yeah, if anybody has any information on 625 00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:08.239 the uh the twenty thirteen case or any new information on the Arizona twenty twenty 626 00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:12.800 one, um, you know, get in touch with us. If you 627 00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:17.320 have any ideas for guests or topics. Um we are certainly open for that. 628 00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:22.400 But other than that, UM, I am done. So yeah, 629 00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:27.679 I think that was a lot um for an hour. That's you know, 630 00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:30.400 great cases, like you said, I mean, great examples, and and 631 00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:35.360 they're kind of even they're tied right now. They're opposed to helicopters too, 632 00:58:35.679 --> 00:58:40.119 m so. But and again very interesting because they turned the tables this time. 633 00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:45.199 It's always the UFO is sort of you know, pacing the airplanes chasing 634 00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:47.519 this one. It's like the helicopters. But again you made a good point, 635 00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:50.840 like, well, what do you do when you when you do catch 636 00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:54.320 it? Now? What? Like you know, it would be like you 637 00:58:54.360 --> 00:59:01.039 know, catching a cobra now like okay, oh, be careful what you 638 00:59:01.159 --> 00:59:06.280 ask for? Right. I understand the desire and the the adrenaline going what 639 00:59:06.440 --> 00:59:08.519 is this thing? But what happens when it's like okay, you want to 640 00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:13.199 see me? Here we go? So you know, it's okay to you 641 00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:17.800 know, poke the bear sometimes but whoa you don't know? Um, so 642 00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:23.280 that does take take some guts. Yeah, well helicopter pilots take guts anyway. 643 00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:29.599 Oh yeah yeah. But I love oh god, I love helicopter. 644 00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:37.440 I've even looked into being a helicopter pilot, but very very expensive. Um. 645 00:59:37.480 --> 00:59:38.599 And then I was like, well then what do I do with it? 646 00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:42.199 You know, I don't want to be a commercial pilot, and it 647 00:59:42.280 --> 00:59:47.559 was an expensive hobby to get into. But hey, never say never helipad 648 00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:55.440 on your roof, that's it. I like it. And actually there's been 649 00:59:55.480 --> 01:00:01.079 to a couple of times or something called Rotor Fest in Pennsylvania. All helicopters. 650 01:00:01.960 --> 01:00:07.320 I love the sound of a helicopter, but I am digressing. So 651 01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:12.400 if they are fascinating, and again for those have never been on them, 652 01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:16.000 very different than an airplane. So it really does. Um the fact that 653 01:00:16.039 --> 01:00:22.199 they're willing to even pursue a UFO in something like a helicopter. I mean, 654 01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:25.199 they're much more maneuverable. Certainly they can, they can make those quick 655 01:00:25.239 --> 01:00:30.400 turns. But yeah, it's one thing in an unarmed Lakota. If I 656 01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:32.440 was in an Apache, I might have a little more guts, right, 657 01:00:34.159 --> 01:00:37.199 yeah, absolutely, even in a gun ship. Yeah, you know. 658 01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:42.880 Yeah, so when you're unarmed, Uh gee, what is this huge craft 659 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:49.159 flying erratically around me? Yeah? Um. But anyway, thank you everyone 660 01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:53.239 for joining us. Mike any final words bring us out? No, thank 661 01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:57.280 you for joining us. You can always catch up with all of our previous 662 01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:02.239 episodes on Hudson River Radio or any podcast service provider of your choice. I 663 01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:06.719 recommend if you're new to the show, start from the beginning and just binge 664 01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:09.519 listen. Other than that, I'm Michael Warden saying thank you and lend the 665 01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:24.719 zimmer in good night. Good night. Hudson River Radio dot Com