Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and
we have a great guest of this evening. I actually had to do a
prerecord for this guest just because of the scheduling, and a lot of people
were excited. I had Linda Zimmerman coming up, but she has been bumped.
She's happily bumped over to August fourth, so she'll be coming up as
our as our guest. Now, Michael Schratt. You've seen him on a
lot of TV programs. He's a private pilot aviation historian and he's been investigating
the UFO encounters for over twenty five years and he's meticulously reviewed a minimum of,
get this, fifty thousand cases that were preserved over at KUFO Center for
the UFO Studies. Those archives are in Chicago. We're gonna be talking a
little bit about how he got access to that. It's in his new book.
So the name of his book is Dark Files, and it's an illustrated
book and some great images. I'm actually if you're on YouTube, I'm going
to be putting these images up so you can actually see them live while we're
talking. If you're are a audio podcast, listener, no fret, I'm
going to have a private link with a YouTube video with basically the images coming
up on like a slide images coming up, so you can check out like
a slide show on the link in our show notes, So you'll just have
to go there and our course, our show notes are on podcast ufo dot
com and when you're over there, our blog is called it's kind of kind
of goes along with the title of Michael's book. It's called the UFO Dark
Side anyway. And by the way, our blogger, Charles Lear, he
was on another podcast and he sent me the link and you know what he
is. Yeah, he's really educated in the topic. He knows a lot
of facts. And I said to myself, why haven't I had him on
as a guest, And I'm going to change that. I'm going to get
him on this show at some point. So getting back to our website while
you're there, there's a link to our Facebook page, so check that out.
There's over twenty some one thousand people over there, pretty active, and
check that out, and anyone can support the show too. We do have
a page on page and that's also the links over there. And without further
ado I would like to welcome our guest on. Welcome to the show,
Michael, Hi Martin. Good to be with you. Yes, I know
you. You have listened to some of the shows in the past, and
yeah, we had a little bit of communication and then I got the wrong
email address. I've wanted to have you on forever, so I'm so glad
you could finally make it. Absolutely Yeah, and your work is really really
good. And I've always had an interest in any type of history, so
the history of aviation is fascinating. I was actually in a house in Massachusetts,
I don't know, maybe five or six years ago, and they had
a part of I can't remember the name of it, but at Kittie Hawk,
Wilbur and Orville, right, they're playing whatever the name was, the
right, right, that's what it was. They had a piece of that
in their house and it was all documented. And how do you how do
you praise something like that? Yeah, that's true, it's historic, all
right. Yeah. I wasn't the whole plane, but it was a part
of it, which was it was all sealed in plastic. It was really
really quite cool. But anyway, so what is it the aviation side of
this that gets you interested in the topic, Yeah, I think the aviation
side. Just being in the suburbs of Chicago, I was in striking range
of Oshkosh, Wisconsin, where they have the convention every year, and so
literally was going there every year for about twenty seven years straight. And you
know, one thing led to the other, and just very interested in the
whole subject altogether. But really being so close to Chicago and Evanston gave me
the opportunity to actually do a lot of research at the q FOS Archives that's
twenty four to fifty seven West Peterson Avenue in the Chicago land area, and
Mark Roddiger got to give him credit for allowing me access to their collection,
and they literally do have the largest private collection of UFO cases pretty much in
the United States, perhaps the world. And over a period of three years,
I did go through pretty much all their file cabinets and pulled out only
the ones that had a really good drawing, illustration, sketch. A lot
of these had flight path recordings, color line marker drawings. Those are the
ones that I pulled out. And when you put that together with the eyewitness
testimony and a three page report Martin, at that point I felt I really
had a good case and hopefully we can go over some of those today.
Yeah, so can you tell us a little bit about KUFOS. Yeah,
KUFOS was basically really started by Jalen Heinek, and he's the one who founded
the whole organization. Essentially, he passed away in eighty six. Mark Rodiger's
the current organizer. Now, from what I understand, he's there. Those
files have been moved from their old location to UIC, so I don't know
about the accessibility now. I think it's a lot more limited than what I
was there. So it's just a good to be there when you had access
to the files. Is that do? They have about fifty thousand files over
that over there? So when you walk in, here's the site picture.
When you walk in, it's a massive files. They've got thirteen file cabinets.
They have a whole separate library every conceivable book, periodicals, bank boxes,
material And it took that long to get through all that material. Now,
I only could go there on Sunday, so that's why it took so
long. But you know, basically you get there on a Sunday morning,
Mark would already be there answering messages on the phone writing letters. They were
going through. Iur back issues and everything, and I'd be off to the
side, pull open the file drawer cabinet and just start going. And these
things were packed so tight you could not get your finger in between the files.
They were packed so tight, so you had to pull the thing out
literally, open up each Manila folder, go through it. If it was
a light in the sky and a one page thing, I got, you
know, went onto the next one immediately. Only the ones that had like
a three page report, a sighting sketch, maybe something that showed the flight
path, and a color illustration. When those all came together, those are
the ones I copied. So that's how I narrowed it down to the most
important. And some of these had been buried in q PHOS files for forty
years, never been seen by wow the light of day period period. And
so do you feel pretty comfortable that those files are going to be well preserved?
Yeah? I think so, Yes, I do, Yes, I
do. And are they overseen still, you know by an organization? The
organization an organism, I think it's under the jurisdiction of Mark, But at
this point I don't know. I do believe they're no longer at the Chicago
Land location in Evanston that area. I don't think they're there anymore. I
think they've been moved, but I just don't know anymore. It's been years
since I was there, so but yeah, it's still accessible. It won't
be as easy to do it though, Yeah, I know there's people looking
to preserve, you know, and for a future. You know, Dave
Marler for one, working down in New Mexico, and that's eventually going to
go to um you know, a university there, absolutely, and you know
you can feel comfortable that will have public access and be cared for when that's
done. David Marler has done a great job. I've been over there twice
and just first class operation. Just I mean when you walk in there,
it's like a research library. He has done such a fantastic job. It's
it's beyond belief, really, it really is. Yeah. Yeah, he's
Yeah, he's a great guy and I'm so glad that he's done that.
I wish more people would help him, you know, financially, he's got
a he has a page up and you know, he he's doing this totally
out of passion. He's not doing this for any self gain at all,
that's right. I mean, so an he wants to see these things preserved,
and I agree these things have to be preserved. I also speak with
class fawn over in Sweden and you know they have a real nice archive over
there, right and uh yeah, fun stuff with all the research. So
this is interesting because the files were jammed tight together. Yeah, they worring
through. So how would you just keep a place by slide in a piece
of paper and you know where to go next or something? Basically? Yeah,
yeah, I mean it's a long It was a long process. You
know. I didn't want to leave anything unturned, so you know, it
took that long to get through it. And some of the cases I could
tell this has never been seen before, so immediately copied that. So did
you actually look to see if things were also reported to move on or some
other not? Really, My time was so limited. I just went with
it, you know, went with it. Is that typical though? Do
people report to multiple sites? I'm not sure. There might have been some
bleed over, but essentially a lot of these were sent to jail and Heineck
for his comments and a lot of people didn't know he passed away. In
eighty six, and they just kept on sending him file. So there's things
in there from two thousand and one, two thousand and five. They just
kept on sending the things over there, so it continued well beyond his passing.
Wow, wow, that's amazing. You know, when something starts that
long ago, we're not talking the digital age, so everything has to be
you know, sent and mailed in. And yeah, that must have been
fascinating to goth. I would love to see that myself, so yeah,
yeah, yeah, So what about pictures? Photos? Did you actually see
any? Yeah, there there were. There were a lot of sketches,
a lot of hand drawn sketches. Some people did color line marker drawings,
so that was good. There's some paintings in there. There were some photos,
but no thing to write home about, I would say, so yeah,
And unfortunately that's what everyone really wants to see. I know, I
know, you know, the evidence Martin is always one step ahead. It's
always the case. Yeah, yeah, it does seem that way. But
what getting back to yourself, what was it that you actually made you really
look into this topic to begin with? Well, well, my one of
my relatives, he was friends with Jalen Heineck, so he kind of introduced
me to it a little bit. So he was he was kind of well
known in Chicago Land area, so I some credit has to go to him
as well. How about that? Wow? All right, well let's let's
talk about some of the cases. Now again I can bring When we talk
about a case, I'll try to bring up the image and if I get
to get it wrong, just bear with me. I'll try to get it
right. But what a Let's start out with any one of the cases that
you came across. I mean, because again I always like to hear something
new. Yeah, I know, it's always exciting, and not that these
things are new. It's just like you said, they hidden away for some
up to forty years, pretty amazing. We can do it by date if
you want, and start with the earliest. Sure, that's fine. Yeah,
let's go to eighteen ninety seven mystery airship wave. All right, I'll
try to look for that image. I don't remember actually seeing that, and
I'm wondering if I only got Oh yes, I did get it. Here
we there, here we go. Yeah. Okay, so right off the
bat, credit has to go to Tom Bogan for doing this. So bottom
line is literally, it took twenty five years to compile all this information,
then it took another four years to commission the artwork, and then another almost
a year just to get the inspiration to write the book. So again Tom
Bogan is the illustrator and credit goes to him. So the goal was to
make these cases come alive rather than just let them sit in an archive in
some dusty dark center somewhere. Get these cases out, make them come alive
through the use of brand new illustrations. That was the goal here. So
this is the eighteen ninety seven Mystery Airship Wave. Technically, when we talk
about this, it actually started in eighteen ninety six in the Sacramento Oakland area,
but it's always been known as the Mystery Airship Wave of eighteen ninety seven.
So basically, we've got we've got thousands of reports from California to Ohio
bleeding into the East Coast. What people were reporting and what you've seen here
is kind of what it looked like. There was chaos, Oakland, Sacramento,
San Francisco, chaos. People were screaming, they were running through the
streets. Covered wagons were overturned, horses were dark through the dirt roads and
everything. And what these people were reporting is this strange bird light craft that
had a wing on either side, it had a tail, it had a
gondola that was supported by what looked like some kind of an airship or airbag
on top, and then it was beaming down these powerful lights below. And
then if you look at the reports Martin and there's hundreds of newspaper reports for
that whole year. There they reported well dressed, eccentric inventor type people on
the decks of these craft. They also reported big black dogs on the top
of these Laughter was heard coming from these things. Sometimes these things landed.
They also dropped down anchors. And so when you look at this and then
Walter Bosley, credit has to go to Walter. I personally, I think
he's nailed it. I think he's cracked the code of the mystery airship wave.
He talks about the Sonora Aero Club that met in the eighteen fifties,
right along the same timeframe as the California Gold Rush, so you're talking eighteen
forty nine eighteen fifty timeframe. They put together something called the Sonora Aero Club
and they were financed by a mysterious group known as NIMS up from quote unquote
back East. We don't know a whole lot about that, but Walter Bosley
makes a very good case. And Peter Menace was a part of this Sonora
Aero Club and he invented something called quote unquote nb gas. To this day,
we don't know what it was. We don't know how it was made
because he died. And that was the propulsion system behind these craft. Martin,
Wow, Yeah, so I had someone on, oh, I don't
know, a few weeks ago that wrote a book many years ago about the
airship mystery. So this just happened, you know, just prior to the
Spanish American War. Was wartime thoughts made? Do you think? I mean?
Was this in preparation for wartime? What they were doing with these Well,
Walter Bosley in his book, he talks about how there was a contingent
American group concurrently going on with this that actually had a flight demonstration just prior
to the Civil War, and Lincoln apparently knew about it. Abraham Lincoln knew
about it, and so that's what Walter talks about as well. So it
looks like there were different groups concurrently going on at the same time, but
the Sonora Aero Club appeared to be the most advanced, right, I know,
hydrogen um you know, they were using hydrogen hydrogen and some of you
know, the Civil War era and very very flammable. There was a lot
of a lot of burns, a lot of problems. But the one thing
that's really curious about the reports on these things is the bright lights. I
mean, did they have the white technology. The intensity of what the reporting,
yeah, doesn't line up with the weight of what that would be to
have something that they're reporting that intensity of a spotlight would take a very high
electrical voltage charge or capacitor to have that kind of intensity, and to have
it airborne seems to me it would be very heavy, so that would undermine
the lifting capability. So that's perhaps where the NB gas came in, because
they said that the NB gas drove the propellers, they drove the wings,
they drove the rotors on the side, so that may have been the power
source for the lights as well. Wow, you know, it's surprising that
there isn't more information. Okay, I know, where are they Martin,
Where are the prototypes? Where are they had all these different models somewhere called
the Goosey's and they had all these different configure rais. Where are they?
Did they just disappear? And now there was a fire that burned some of
them down, but there should be something left over, but yet it's evaporated
from history. Yeah, yeah, that is really bizarre, really bizarre.
You'd think there would be a barn find sooner or later exactly exactly, and
especially like if the southern California, a lot of things, you know,
just last forever out there because of the climate situation exactly. Yeah, you
find beautiful little cars and things like that. And as far were people,
you were saying that carts overturned, so people were really afraid. Yeah,
it was. It was chaos. It was absolutely because they didn't know.
And if you go back to the newspaper clippings, there are hundreds of newspaper
clippings about these and they describe kind of like these long cigar shape craft.
They do talk about the wings, they talk about the rudder, you know,
they constantly talk about how these people who had contact with the people who
were a quote unquote the pilots, they were well dressed inventor types, they
were eccentrics, Um, some of these guys had smokey colored glasses they were
wearing, and they said that quote unquote, we cracked the gravity barrier.
We figured out how to do it. So it wasn't like they were using
hot air. They were using something else to drive these craps. That's the
point of what Charles del Shaw talks about in his paintings. Wow, you
know, I know they had you know, they had combustion engines, um,
you know, way before then, I think in starting in the eighteen
fifties or something like that when they first started with those, so they had
a way to um, you know, propel these things with an you know,
with a combustion engine. But otherwise they would just be floating around,
you know, like like a zeppelin, without any propulsion really to speak of.
And what about noises? Did people report hearing like humming noises or anything
like that. I don't recall any severe humming noises in these cases. But
in Charles Delshaw's writings he talks about that since Peter Menace was killed or murdered,
that they would no longer have these test flights. So it looks like
they had some afterwards. But by that time we don't know what happened to
the NBA gas because he took that secret to his grave. And so by
the time whatever it was ran out, the mystery airship wave just disappeared as
soon as it came on the radar screen. Yeah, and did you mention,
I know you said it basically started in California, but in you did
say, all the way to the east coast right now, they made They
made it to Chicago, they made it to Ohio, and then a little
bit further east from there, and then they just cut off, cut and
dry. They were. They stopped completely. They re emerged in nineteen o
nine, but the eighteen ninety seven airship wave that cut off pretty quickly.
Didn't I hear about something in Europe during that time? I think so?
Yeah, And yeah, I remember hearing something about also the big lights coming
down, you know, maybe a light overhead seems a little mysterious and whatever.
But I can't picture them doing like on lighthouses back then they had oil
oil lamps, you know, And I can't picture you would have something flammable
like that up there right right, you know, near and near flammable objects.
So as far as people seeing like unidentified that we had no explanation.
Is that where it rolls into next? As far as what then, as
far as his history, and as far as in your book, let's say
after eighteen ninety seven, where do we go next from there? Okay,
so you want to go to the next case, sure, why not?
Okay, yeah, so let's go to FDR soa USDR late nineteen fifty eight.
Oh wow, it took that. Yeah yeah, Okay. So now
this one actually comes from mufon. We've got the original sketch from Chester Grusinski.
He's the primary eyewitness on this. Now, the story, the backstory
is there. It's late nineteen fifty eight, it's Guantanamo Bay, Cuba,
the USSFDR. It's about nine pm and according to Chester Grosinski, there was
commotion below decks. There were people trying to rush up the ladder to get
on top of the flight deck. All these people were getting up there.
Eventually twenty four naval personnel got to the flight deck and what they saw is
a light approaching the aircraft carrier at nine pm at night. It got closer
and closer. Eventually it parked itself about two hundred feet above the flight deck
and it was no longer a light at this point. It was a one
hundred and fifty foot cigar shaped craft. It had a series of square cutout
windows, and the people on the flight deck could see quote unquote human annoyed
looking beings walking back and forth within this window section. And one of these
beings actually put his hand above his head like he was waving at the personnel
down below who were looking back up at this craft. Wow. At this
point, the people on the flight deck they could feel the heat coming off
this craft under their faces. And then this thing turned to an orange color
and shot off like a spark on a grinding wheel and made no sonic boom.
This is back in nineteen fifty eight. And if you if you go
to the next one, we think we've got the enlargement version of it too.
Oh okay, yeah yeah so uh and does that one also say FDR
on it? Yeah, it should said FDR on it, but yeah that's
what reporting. Yepkay, so there's the enlargement. Yep. You know,
this is this is where you almost wonder about the time travel thing. You
know, people people uh, you know, question whether that's a possibility.
But you know, there it does seem like the cigar shape and this almost
looks like elongated tic tac in a way. Yeah, there you go.
Yeah, but a lot of the cigar shaped things that people have seen over
the years do have like portholes and windows. You hear about that a lot
exactly. But the humanoid figures and let me just ask you this, do
you know if they they went into some type of war mode, uh,
you know, to protect themselves or anything like that. The only thing I
could say is that this wasn't an isolated incident. The FDR had a history
of UFO encounters. And the reason why maybe because the USSFDR was the first
aircraft carrier to carry onboard nuclear weapons. So that might be the reason why.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean there's there's so many when it comes to
the nuclear whole situation, it just seems like there's so many tie ins with
the UFOs um. You know, even for instance, the Nimits that was
you know, a nuclear carrier, m but you know not not I'm not
going to say it was armed with nukes. I don't know that, but
uh but still, um, there just seems to be some type of tie
in there. Who knows, but this is a this is a real,
real good one. And what type you said? You went off of a
sketch for this. Yeah, so he provided an original sketch that was sent
to mufon. I've got it right here. I don't know if we can
show this here, but uh, this this is his original sketch. And
if you zoom in here you can see, oh yeah, this gentleman,
there's the people on the flight deck and you can see the being waving back
in the window. So, yep, this is his original sketch. He
wrote an entire report and it's also been recorded in two newspaper clippings as well.
And what about, um, where there are other people as well that
cooperated his work? Do you know he tried to find some of the other
eyewitnesses, But the log books for that day are missing on the aircraft carrier.
That's convenient, yep. Wow, And and that that's a rare thing
to happen, really know, the log book, Um, they're not supposed
to disappear. Yeah, yeah, how about that. Well, that's that's
a great case. Uh. And you know, as far as the humanoids,
you don't hear about that too often people seeing that type of thing.
But it's funny how when you do hear about him, a lot of times
they're they're waving right, you know, you hear about that the New Guinea
case, and you know, yeah, that's the neck one on the list
here if we want to move to that one. Sure do you know that?
What the title Isn't that? It's June twenty seventh, nineteen fifty nine,
Father Guild case. Yeah, I love that case and I will find
that here we go. Yeah, Oh, let's go to the one prior
to this, so that's the enlargement. Let's go to the to the one
prior to this. Okay, but let's let's talk about the story while looking
into them. Okay, that's fine. So it's six pm, it's June
twenty seventh. There we go, nineteen fifty nine. Now there are at
least twenty five eye witnesses to this case. That's kind of basically the setup.
It was around six pm. Now, the day before, on the
twenty sixth, they had sightings as well, but this one was on the
twenty seventh. So Fathergill he is brought outside twenty five eye witnesses. What
they're reporting They saw a thirty five foot diameter dish shape craft that had two
tiers to it, so it looked like a two tiered wedding cake. Bottom
diameter was thirty five feet, the upper deck was twenty feet. It had
what looked like cone shape landing gear coming out of the bottom, So there
were four of these legs, and on the top there were four human look
beings. Now two of them were further back toward the center of the craft,
so they were somewhat obscured, but the other two were nearer to him
and father Gil he was so excited to see this. He definitely waved to
the beings on the top deck and they actually waved back. That's actually the
name of this illustration is they waved back. So this went on for a
few minutes. They also used torches and the craft responded to the torch movement,
and then these other two guys they disappeared on the top deck, and
then a blue beam shot out at about a forty five degree angle from the
flight deck itself. That was there for a few minutes, and then this
thing departed. But the bottom line is that there were at least twenty five
eyewitnesses to this case, and we don't know exactly what the purpose of their
landing gear legs were Now they could have just been gear legs, but they
could have been something else as well, because in some of the other sketches
it's a very interesting configuration. So essentially that is the Father Guild case,
another case where these beings they wave back right right. And also if anyone
is curious to find out more, all you have to do is Google.
I mean, go on YouTube, that is basically and put in the Father
Guilt UFO and you will pull up a video of him in his own words.
I think it was recorded in the sixties or something like that, but
he will go into his own words about the encounter. Very very believable,
and I believe at the end he says something like, well, you know,
you don't have to believe me. I understand, but it did happen.
It did happen. Well, a lot of these cases, Martin is
it doesn't become real to you until you have a personal connection to the sighting.
Now I didn't know Father Gil, but being connected to q FOS and
then being a good Paul Heineck, I spoke to Paul Heineck about this,
and I think he said that it was nineteen seventy four where Father Gil came
to Evanston and they had dinner with Father Gill and Jalen heine and Paul Heineck
was sitting right there at the dinner table, and Father Gil was laying out
this entire case. He wasn't seeking fame, he wasn't seeking fortune, he
wasn't trying to make himself look popular or anything. He was just laying out
the entire case. And he was completely credible, completely reliable. And when
I heard that from Paul Heineck, Yep, there you go. It's yes,
it's it's legit. It's legit. I do, I do. I
actually did hear him talk about that. I bet him last year out in
Okay Phoenix, and yeah, he did talk about sitting there and hearing about
that. Yeah. I think that's to me when I first was really looking
seriously into that topic and I found that online and read about it and then
watch the video, It's like, hell, Macco, that one is.
That's a real interesting one. And you know, I think he I think
it went on for another day, right, didn't they see something that there
were There was a whole series of sightings in that timeframe, So it wasn't
just that day, there was a whole series of sightings in that area.
Yeah, makes you really wonder what that was about, you know, like,
right, well, whoever they were, wherever they were from. Um,
you know, it's funny that they actually I like those things that are
bizarre myself because they're almost more credible in a way. Right, picture them
on top of this thing. I mean that that's bizarre if gass me the
beings coming out on top of it, like they're on the top of a
submarine or something. And then the reaction with the people. I think he
sent someone in to get a torch that they call a flashlight a torch and
came back out. And then the interaction with that I do believe. I
do believe. He says that they move. They basically move the torch back
and forth like this, and then the object actually moves. It responded Yep,
that's right. It responded to the movement. And uh that really that
really makes you it's a wonder they didn't land. Whoever they were, right,
and you know, have more interaction And have you ever pondered that why
there's no you know, public interaction with if it goes that far and it
stops right, right, I think wondering. I think we could be looking
perhaps at a high tech civilization that may have been on this planet for thousands
of years. That might be a part of this. I'm not sure,
but if you look at it, there's different configurations. We do see some
similarities on the dress that these beings are wearing a lot of times, and
it's this is really strange. Some of these beings have cone shaped hands.
I've seen this again and again, this pattern that keeps repeating with these cone
shaped hands. I'm not sure what it means, but it's in the cases,
so that is a repeating pattern as well. I wonder, you know,
you always think about evolution, and I wonder what type of evolution would
make a cone shaped hand work? Right? You know, so maybe maybe
something on wherever they're from makes it necessary for them to eat that way,
or something, you know, get into some type of plant to eat,
or I don't know, you know, I mean, it's all speculation,
but yeah, and you know, since you are a person that really looks
at the structured craft that people are reporting, do you think it's kind of
bizarre where there seems to be periods of like discs and then periods of triangle
and you know things like that. Have you ever wondered about how well,
like like they say, triangles are all the rage now, but we've got
the cigar shape craft and we've got the flying platforms as well. So those
are kind of like the four primary configurations that we've seen. And when one
ends, the next one comes up, so like they retire that version and
they move to the next one. It does seem that way end up.
And it doesn't really make any sense if it really comes to the point where
you know, these civilizations could be multimillions of years older than we are and
stuff like that. Why at one point would they have one craft and then
another craft? And I don't know are they is it just coming from different
places? I mean there's again there's million questions but no answers. Yeah,
but it's it's totally fascinating. And so you want to move on to Temple,
Oklahoma. Sure, this is Mark Ye March twenty third. There you
go, nineteen sixty six, Temple, Oklahoma. Now this, gentleman,
this is this is a project blue bookcase. You can verify this. This
is an actual Project blue bookcase. Eddie Lackson, who is a electronics technician
instructor at Shepherd Air Force Base. It's five or five in the morning.
He's going to work, and all of a sudden, the road is blocked
by this strange craft very they describe it, or he describes it as a
perch or fish shape craft. So he stops the car, he gets out
of his vehicle, and what he sees is this elongated torpedo shape craft.
Now I've got a copy of his original sketch. David Marler has the entire
report, so credit has to go over to David because he's got the twelve
page report. He gave me a copy of that. But now his original
sketch is really rough. I mean it's really rough and it's out of scale.
So spent at least a day fixing that and making it up to spec.
But anyway, his sketch says that the craft was seventy five feet in
length. It was eight feet tall the very forward section and will work after
As we go along here, it has a three foot diameter bubble transparent canopy
that looks like it was something off of B twenty six, and then it
had two powerful spotlights beaming in the forward. As you get toward the upper
spine, there was this spire or stinger that swept back like a trolley car
from San Francisco, but the electrical trolley cars. Like an electrical trolley car,
it has that stinger that goes up. That's exactly what this craft looked
like. Then it had this baseball or softball sphere at the end of that
spire. He also said that there was a hatch that was about two and
a half feet wide maybe four point five feet tall, and he said that
right next to there there was this military looking guy. He had green fatigues
on and he had chevrons on his shoulder, and he was shining a flashlight
on the bottom of the craft like he was looking at something. It also
had this airstare, so it was this hatch that came down with this airstair
that you would see on a layer jip. Now behind the air stair was
another three foot diameter porthole window that was lit from inside. It was divided
in four equal pie segments. Just after that, there was the designation Martin
t L four seven six eight written in black letters on the side of the
craft. He actually mentioned this. Now to this day, I don't think
anyone can figure out what that meant. I have looked. I don't know
what that designation meant. Now, he wasn't exactly sure about the last two
characters, but that was his best representation. Now, the whole craft was
sitting on what looked like four lunar landing gear legs, and at the end
of this craft it had what looked like very small flight controls, too small
to be anything actually practical for aerodynamic flight. Now, when this gentleman who
was shining the flashlight at the bottom of the craft, when he saw he
was being looked at by Eddie Lexon, he immediately ran up the stairs.
He closed the door. And then this is something I've heard again and again,
Martin, again and again, I've heard this. Just before this thing
departed, there was a high pitched drilling noise, and this thing levitated off
the ground and departed like boom gone. It made no sonic boom. And
at that altitude we're looking at supersonic. So this thing exceeded mock one at
ground level and made no sonic boom. This is all back in nineteen sixty
six. Yeah, I was just going to ask you what year that is.
Yeah, that is so crazy. No sonic boom and all that.
And it makes you think of our technology. You know, is it possible
that we actually had this type of technology back then? And if so,
why aren't we using it? You know, I mean, nineteen sixty six,
that's just unbelievable. Oh and here's the other thing too, And this
is in the newspaper clippings and Blue Book investigated that the US Air Force investigated
Eddie Laxon. When he was interviewed by officials, he said that he could
recognize this gentleman if he saw him in the street that afternoon. Wow,
that's how close he was. So, I mean, it's it's a good
sighting, very good sighting, official Project blue bookcase. Yeah. And again
you know, is it almost makes you think that it could be a time
travel thing one more time? You know that this guy looked like a military
yep in fatigues and chevrons and and all that. Uh So that is really
a bizarre anyone ever seeing anything anything like that ever reported? Again, Well,
truck drivers saw it too, so he wasn't the only one. They
interviewed some of the people who drove down there and they saw it too,
So it wasn't an independent case. I mean there were multiple eyewitnesses. Yeah,
And why would it land in the middle of the highway, That's another
thing. And how about as far as where it was located, are there
any air bases or test sites? It was it was near Shepherd Shepherd Air
Force Base, Okay on the Temple, Oklahoma border the Texas Oklahoma border.
That's not too far from where that Air Force base is. Because he was
working there as an instructor and so he was going there in the morning.
He just ran across this thing. And if you go to Clarksburg, West
Virginia where they have the Gray Barker Collection, they've got some of the original
sketches there. It also talks about how truck drivers saw it too. So
wow, if you know, if you had to speculate, what would you
think it is? I mean, have you thought about what the possibilities are
and something like this, Martin, I think it's one of ours. Yeah,
I think it's one of ours. Yep. And you think they actually
could have had that technology back then? Yes? I do, Yes,
I do. And what do you think they'd be doing with this technology if
they weren't using it during the Vietnam War or you know, you're talking about
the speed without you know, breaking the sound barrier. Things that seem to
defy I guess I would say is that I guess I'm limited in what I
could talk about here. But they're just they're designed to control the high ground.
They're designed to control the high ground because anyone who controls the high ground
in a battle field environment, they win the war. And so this is
a that's part of that. But but bottom line is, if you look
at the newspaper clippings, they were experimenting with cracking the gravity barrier in nineteen
fifty four. Was a report in the newspapers in nineteen fifty five. Now,
if we go back in time to eighteen ninety seven, the history of
this stuff goes way before Kenneth Arnold. We could be looking at a progression
of technology from that time frame up to sixty six where Eddie Laxon saw that
craft. But really, if you want to know more about that, just
read Walter Bosley. But he traces the whole history of this and I don't
even think he's given enough credit. He has not given the credit he deserves
for piecing this together because I think he's figured out the mystery airship weave siting,
and that was the origin point where a lot of this can be traced
back to. Now, what about so this craft or whatever it sort of
displayed anti gravity? Is that what you do You think that's what we were
seeing? Well, he was saving there. In the Lonnies and more a
case, they have the same thing. On three other cases in my book,
they talk about the same thing. There's there's always this Martin, this
high pitched drilling noise like they're starting something, like they're engaging something. If
this was alien, it would either be on or to be off. You
wouldn't have this demarcation of complete silence and then like something chugging up and running
up or spooling up. It sounds very industrial, it sounds very mechanical.
And in some of these other cases that we'll talk about here is people who
look inside these craft. They see rivets, they see bulkheads, they see
stringers. It looks like a quote unquote shipping yard, something that you see
on a dry dock on the East coast where they're building a battleship. A
very mechanical, man made construction. Martin is what these people are reporting when
they see inside these craft. How do you think that it would be possible
that something like this could be kept secret if we had it. They can
do it if they want to. I mean, when they really want to
keep a secret, they can do it. They can do it, they
compartmentalize it. It can be done. It can be done, and it
can absolutely be done. Wow, it's really really in a way, it's
hard to believe that someone wouldn't come forward and say, hey, you can't
believe the technology we had back in nineteen you know, sixty, Well,
the giggle factor is still in place. Yea, even in twenty twenty.
The giggle factor is still in place because if you talk about this, you
know, you can get crucified. So you have to be very careful how
you present it. So yeah, but all right, let's let's fast forward.
And we got about seven minutes or six and a half minutes to a
break. Let's let's fast forward though, too, just on this topic while
we're on it right now. For now, the the government is basically looking
into the topic. M sure. And and so if if it was part
of what we had, wouldn't they say, wouldn't the government know that?
And just say, hey, you know, don't waste your time, you
know, Well, we'll talk about it and tell you this is you know,
from the private sector, this is something that we'd known about for and
have used this technology. Well, honestly, I don't think they're obligated to
say anything. Really, when you're dealing with this kind of level of technology,
they're not obligated to say anything, and they can keep it under wraps.
So they would just assume that we would spend the time, effort,
and money to keep looking at what these things are and not say anything.
I think that could be the case, Martin. They're not going to show
their cards. They'd much rather have you think that it's an alien spacecraft from
light years away. And all I'm going to say is that the truth on
some of these might be a lot closer to home. I'm gonna leave it
at that. Yeah, But is it also your opinion that we may be
seeing something from somewhere else? Could be could be yes, because there's a
lot of talk about different timelines converging. We could be looking at something in
the future. Absolutely, there's cases in eighteen fifties in Wahaco, Mexico,
where people were seeing these they call them golden birds that were shining beaming spotlights
down like in eighteen forty nine eighteen fifty time frame. Now it could be
part of our early airship testing, but that's been going on too. So
you can't deny these sightings. You can't. Maybe one or two, but
not all of them. Yeah, especially when we have multiple witnesses involved.
I think we have time before the break to do one more case if you'd
like to. Yep. So let's go to nineteen seventy two Venezuela. All
right, December, this one right here right yep. So a lot of
that thing into getting this one. When I saw this one Martin at the
Q four Sarca, I said, Nope, that's the one right there,
because no one's ever seen as far as I know, it's never been printed,
it's never been reported, it's never been put in a newsletter period.
It was completely blank, been sitting there for thirty five forty years. So
when I saw that one, I said, yep, we got to do
this one. So the backstory on this it's December twenty sixth, nineteen seventy
two, Maricibo, Venezuelia. There were three primary eyewitnesses. They're on the
fourteenth floor of their apartment complex. So the husband saw it, the wife
saw it, and their young daughter saw it as well. They were looking
over the city expecting to see this airliner make a landing at the local airport.
Now what they actually saw. Now, this is the husband. He
describes it. Now. He included very good pencil sketches of what he saw,
and he included a three page report with the sketches together. I know
it's real. The way he wrote this sketch completely incredible. So what he
expects to see is a commercial airliner approaching his apartment complex, but that wasn't
the case. What he saw was an orange colored light, and he thought
that an engine was on fire, like inside the engine the Sullivant airliner.
It looked like something was on fire. Now, as this thing got closer,
this was no aircraft. This was absolutely no aircraft. It was kind
of an elliptical shape craft. It had these exhaust ports on you could say,
about sixty percent back from the leading edge of the craft, wrapped around
the entire left back and then over to the right hand side, and you
can see that right here. He drew sketches of what this looked like.
Now, this thing passed within one hundred and fifty feet of his location and
made about a forty five degree tip up angle and then continued on its flight
path. He actually called for his daughter to run next door to the neighbor's
apartment and get out the binoculars. So he saw this in binoculars. And
if you go to one picture ahead of this one Martin, you'll see that
what he described seeing on the bottom of this craft were these two half hemispherical
insulators. Inside these insulators or half hemispherical domes, there was this electrical spark
gap mechanism, and a continuous blue arcing flame was going through this entire section
of the craft continuously as this thing was flying by, So you can kind
of see what this thing actually looked like. Now. A few minutes later,
as this thing departed off toward the location of the airport, another craft
identical to this one flew the exact same flight path that got within one hundred
and fifty feet of the witness. He saw the same thing twice, so
that's how he got a real good look at what this craft actually looked like.
Wow, and how many people were reported this? Do you know?
Is it just well? He wrote in the report to jail and heinek q
FOS. But it took place seventy and seventy two, so this is a
long time ago. This is written in and we've got his original case report,
the original sketches. Yeah, you'd have to think that if someone is
going to hoax something like this, why would they go through all the trouble
and all the detail and you know it just it and to report it without
you know, any other witnesses. Some may say, you know, why
bother, But I'm surprised that more people didn't see this, and they could
have seen it, but they didn't report it to q FOS anyway. Now
I could have been seen by others. I'm sure it was, but he
was the one who filed the official report. And then going back to those
exhaust ports, he said that they looked like flames, but they didn't behave
like flames. They behave more like an electrical arc with a very sharp knife
cutoff edge, like someone took a butter knie and chop the edges right off.
It was cut and dry, So these things didn't dissipate like a flame
would, but they had a very sharp termination point. It doesn't make any
sense in any way, and that's why I like it. Yeah, that's
right. Wow. And did he describe these colors as well, that you
have this is like a really bright basically like a when you spark a welding's
torch. That's what this looked like. That's what these things look like.
Yeah, and you'd almost assume that this part of the blue electro right,
well, the sparks and everything could be possibly some type of propulsion or you
know, I mean, is exhaustive, you know, it's just all speculation.
Well, he did say that as the craft passed him by one hundred
and fifty feet away, the smoke from this sparking mechanism moved with the craft.
It didn't dissipate in the wind or the air behind it, It moved
with the craft. Wow, pretty amazing. All right, Well we are
ready to go into the break, So hanging everyone, we'll be right back
right, We're back. My guest this evening is Michael Schratt, and we're
talking about some great historical UFO cases, mostly unknown, I would say,
And well, I know some of them are unknown, and I do believe
Michael, it's possible that some of these are known because of you bringing them
back to light. I guess, so, I guess so. I mean,
I don't care about fame and fortune. I just want to get these
out there, you know. I just I want to see them alive myself.
I'll do it for free, you know, because I just want to
see him come alive myself. I think they're just that interesting. So yeah,
I think that's why it's really important to, you know, preserve you
know, the old cases like this, because well, you know, maybe
the witnesses are long gone, but still they're really fascinating. And you know,
if the witnesses aren't long gone, you never know when something like this
gets out. I talk to people all the time that will a case actually
hits TV or something. For instance, in contact with Calvin Parker would talk
every few few days right now because he's trying to get the other witnesses that
actually saw the we're trying to get them all together with him on this show.
But you know, they they didn't come forward until just recently. That
happened so many years ago, but it gets it gets the spotlight, so
to speak, and all of a sudden someone comes forward. It's like Kevin
Day from the Nimt's case listened to my show with Robert Powell, and AH
got in touch through that way through Facebook. So yeah, it's interesting how
these things work. Good to get them out there. As you know,
Martin, only ten percent of cases are reported that we're missing so much as
it is. Yeah, I mean I didn't report my own personal case,
you know, because I didn't have I for one thing, I had no
idea you could do go online and report something. This was in two thousand
and six. I had absolutely no idea, and I had no idea who
to report it to. I call the police, okay, because I just
didn't know, you know, what to do, and I got fed up
and hung up the phone. I didn't even you know, so mind's unreported.
And I've been in crowds at conferences were the question is asked, how
many people have seen something that they absolutely cannot explain? And the skuys and
you look around and it's like ninety percent. Of course, so those people
are going to a UFO event, so they're more likely to raise their hand.
But then when the person would ask, all right, how many people
reported it? Almost all the hands go down. You know, there's only
like, probably you're right, ten percent still holding their hands up, that's
right. So yeah, And as far as people reporting, you know,
I mean, do you feel like they're handled fairly well with a couple of
institutions out there now, or how do you feel about that? Well,
if it doesn't have a sketch and a and a actual handwritten report to go
with it, it's just a it's just a voicemail. It's without without a
flight path and someone taking the time to make a drawing. I don't think
it's there. I don't think it's enough. You've got to have something on
paper that you can fall back on. A case could be true, but
without a drawing, without an illustration, without someone taking the time. A
lot of these drawings you can tell someone took the time, They brought out
their straight edge, they marked off the landmarks, they put down where it
was. It's adds so much more to the credibility in the case when you
see that, rather than just someone that calls in and makes a report.
Right. I've talked with Peter Javinport and he basically says, you know,
he gets tons of calls all the time, right, but he's saying,
well, you know, you've got to take the time and fill out the
report if you want, you know, you want to report this, you
have to take the time, and it weeds out, unfortunately, weeds out
a lot of people that don't want to take the time. And that's kind
of a it's kind of curious that people wouldn't move forward and spend the time
to report it if they've gotten that far that they've called exactly. Yeah.
So while you just mentioned about the drawings I mentioned earlier class fun over in
the suite, he mentioned to me that he and his wife had a UFO
sighting and on their way home from a party at late to night or something
like that, he said to her in the car, don't talk about it.
And they got home and they each went in a separate room and wrote
down exactly what they saw. I think that was great advice. I mean
that that's great advice for anyone. Quarantine the witnesses. Yes, quarantine and
and do your drawing and do your writing right then, immediately afterward, because
I mean, that's the advice I would give anyone if they had a sighting,
is to write everything down immediately afterwards before your you know why, your
memories really fresh and sharp on what just happened. That's my advice anyway.
And drawing, why not, even if you're a terrible drawer, like you've
actually seen some of those drawings that are pretty bad. But that's still reference.
It's reference to go by, that's right, and we can clean it
up from there. We can work from a rough pencil sketch. That's fine.
That's what we do here. You know, good for that. So,
yeah, where do you want to move next? Foray case, we're
going to move to September tenth, nineteen seventy six, Kaluza, California.
Okay, you got it. Okay, So now this is another well documented
site. Q FOS has a report on it. Newspapers picked up on this
as well. All right, so here's the setting. It's around eleven thirty
pm. Primary eye witnesses watching TV. All of a sudden, the TV
conks out. This is Kaluza, California. TV conks out, air conditioning
conks out. He's still in his shorts at this time, so he walks
out of his mobile home to the back unit where the circuit breaker box is,
thinking that one of the circuit breakers is blown, and all of a
sudden, he notices that the hair on his arms the hair on his chest,
the hair on his head starts standing up on end. The entire localized
area is engulfed in this static electrical field. So he looks up and he
sees one hundred and fifty foot diameter dish shape craft hovering above him. This
thing, try to describe it. It has this gun metal aluminum polished silver
exterior. On the top was a dome, But Martin, it's not your
standard dome. It looks like a lemon juicer or an orange juicer, something
like that. It has a concave rib section as it goes around the outer
circumference of the dome. That's what the dome looked like. Now on the
bottom of this craft, he said, it had these dangling six conduit pipes
that had freight edges, and then he said that there were two pronglike devices
on either side of the craft. Now, while this is going on,
there was a bright beaming spotlight coming down to the bottom. But he also
saw, Martin, two other craft identical to the first one, that were
half the diameter of the one that he was looking at, and they were
hovering over the nearby five hundred thousand volt power lines, shining lights down to
the power lines, like their sucking power off the power lines, turning them
cherry red in color. So that was going on concurrently as his siding.
Now, next thing that happened is these strange dangling conduit pipes retracted into the
bottom of the craft. When that happened, those two pronglike devices they retracted
as well, but only nine into the craft, showing the remaining ten percent.
When that happened, there was a hatch that opened on either side of
the craft, and these goose neck lights popped out, shining down below.
So at this point, he startled, he's shaken. He runs back into
the mobile home. He wakes up his wife and two children that were sleeping,
and they kind of go to the far end of the room there where
there's a window, so he draws the blinds open, and he sees the
two smaller craft kind of out into the backyard. They're still sucking up power
from the five hundred thousand bolt power lines, and then the large craft kind
of like goes back in between the two. And then what happened next is
really interesting. This large craft that's one hundred and fifty feet in diameter,
it goes from a dead stand still to twenty four nautical miles away to the
rolling hills in the background, stays there for about two seconds, and then
zips back all within four seconds total with no sonic boom whatsoever. And this
is all back in nineteen seventy six. This is going on. So at
this point, the primary eye witness, his name is Pat. He is
said, you know what we're done. We're out of here. So he
gathers up his family. He's in his shorts, so he pulls on a
junkie pair of jeans. They all jump into the pickup truck. He puts
the pickup truck in a drive. He goes out of the garage, and
now he's racing down the blacktop road going ninety miles an hour to get away
from this large craft that's approaching the pickup truck. This thing starts following them
down the road, goes off to the left of the pickup truck above the
truck now on the right hand side, then goes back to the left hand
side. He eventually goes about two miles down the road to his neighbor's house,
screeches the brakes, pulls to a stop, piles out of the pickup
truck starts banging on the door, the neighbor's door, and then two additional
neighbors come out. So you've got the primary eye witness, You've got his
wife, you've got the two children. So that's four plus the two additional
witnesses, so that's six. All six eyewitnesses watch this large craft depart the
area, and so essentially, in a nutshell, that's the kalusive California case.
Wow, this one, I would say, you wouldn't want to write
off the bat say it's our own technology, and I'll tell you that for
a couple of reasons, I would say this one in particular. First of
all, why would it chase a vehicle? Second of all, it would
need to take a power source, you know, I mean that would be
that just wouldn't make sense. But that that's fascinating. Are you aware of
a you know, I've heard of UFOs seen sucking up water out of a
lake or something like that, but sure, but never from a power line.
There's a couple other cases where we've seen, Now we don't know exactly,
we think it's pulling power offer who knows for sure, But in the
report it specifically states that the power lines were turning cherry red in color.
I mean absolutely so. It is by far a very powerful CE two case.
At the very minimum, it's a very powerful CE two case. Yeah,
and his power went out. Did other people report that the area blacked
out? The area, the whole area, they're blacked out? And that's
kind of talked about in close encounters, so that that checks out, you
know? Yeah, what did Stephen really know? Who knows? But yeah,
I know that there was a lot of bits and pieces of cases,
you know, put in close encounters exactly exactly, and this could have been
one of them. This is really amazing and I'm wondering how I've not never
heard of this case before and it's so incredible. Yep, it's in It's
in the q FOS archives for sure. And newspapers picked it up as well.
Do you know if the witnesses ever talked about this? Are you know,
the the gentleman that he jumped in the pickup truck as he talked about
this publicly? Uh? Yeah, it was. It was publishing the newspapers.
In fact, I'll I'll pull up the uh here's the actual clipping.
It's son Harald Kaloosa, California. May twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine.
There's the actual newspaper clipping. Now that's the craft right there. Yeah,
you can see the sketch and that's what he saw. And they were terrified.
They were absolutely terrified. That's a terrifying looking craft. Yeah. Again,
for those listening, I will post a video up. I'm going to
try to do the slideshow in order so you'd be able to see and fall
along, um, you know, and just at least see what some of
these craft look like. Um. And that that is just such a bizarre
thing about the conduits and and then them all retracting and then for it to
take off and to come back. That's now. It made no sonic boom
when it did that, So we're talking like a dead standstill to twenty four
miles away in less than two seconds and then repeated in less than two seconds
with no sonic boom. All back in nineteen seventy six. Did this actually
come fairly close to him as well? It was in his backyard? Yeah,
Well when he when he originally saw it, he was maybe one hundred
and fifty feet away from it. It was hovering above him, so it
was very close range. When the thing came back. Did he see when
it left and came back, did he see any type of disturbance at all
on the ground, Did he mention anything like it was too far away at
that But that was way in his backyard at that point, and then from
that point forward, he was in a state of panic. So I don't
think he was concerned with what the exterior looked like. Then. He was
just concerned with getting his family piled in the truck and they were getting out
of there. And then in the report it talks about they actually said they
were going ninety miles an hour down the road to get away from this thing,
and it was chasing their truck, going above the cab of the truck
to one side and then flipping back over to the other side. This went
on two or three times until he got to the neighbor's house and that's where
it kind of ended there. But he was in a state of panics.
So yeah, I can see why. That's a horrifying situation and a real
amazing one. Wow, that's a great one. Yeah, all right,
what do you want to do? What would you all right, we're moving
on to February third, nineteen eighty three, Mobile, Alabama. Oh this
one I love. Yeah, Yeah, that's exactly correct. You. I've
heard of this one. I remember looking into it. I think there's been
someone talked about this or something that maybe possibly at a conference or something that
was very familiar. This was talk. This was written up in Nightcaps Report.
I've got the Nightcap Report here, so just again. February third,
nineteen eighty three, Mobile, Alabama. The primary eyewitness head just finished a
dinner engagement. She was driving home. She had about ninety minutes to go
far away, and all of a sudden, she hears this booming noise.
Her car starts shaking. She pulls off to the side of the road.
She stops the vehicle. She gets out of the car. She looks under
her vehicle, thinking the transmission came out or something. Everything seemed to be
okay there, so she gets back in the car. She drives another half
mile forward on the road, kind of makes a little turn, and then
off to the right there's a clearing and she sees this craft in front of
her. It's dark in color. She described it. The report states that
this thing was about two hundred and seventy six feet in length. It was
eighty feet tall as it tapered nearer the back. It kind of tapered and
tiered up like a wedding cake. And the top section at the very top
will start at the top. Here it had a transparent dome section with a
cutout window, and inside this cutout window, it was lit from inside.
And she said there there was these humanoid looking beings that had a little bit
larger heads. They were wearing these one piece tight fitting flight suits, very
tight fitting. They were all white in color. She said that the atmosphere
they were in looked antiseptically sterile. And she said that just below that section
there was another transparent section. Below that, there were these port holes that
varied in diameter. Below the port holes, there were these six foot by
six foot boxes. Protruding out of these boxes were these cylindrical devices that looked
like cannons to her. She described them as weaponry. Don't know if that's
what it was, but she definitely described that. Now, below these cylinders,
she said that she could see a door closing from right to left and
it had ribs on it. On the inside of this section, she said
that would looked like a quote unquote Martin a asphalt road, black asphalt road.
And on the left wall of this she said that she could see what
she termed pipes, tubes, cylinders. And I've seen this, Martin,
multiple times. Now, I've got at least fourteen separate cases within the files
where eyewitnesses are describing these pipes. Great job, great job. You went
right to the next one. That was great. They're describing pipes and cylinders
and tubes. A lot of these eyewitnesses say that these things look like the
inside of a Midas muffler shop. They described this. Now, below this
asphalt road, there was two gondolas with the same five foot ten type fitting
flight suit beings that were walking around oblivious to her. Below so two of
these gondolas, and then on the upper section of these transparent gondolas there was
what described as being twenty four inch by twenty four inch highly polished reflective mirrors
that were configured in across configuration. Now, while all this is going on,
she's walking up to this craft and she could see through the quote unquote
portholes, and Martin, she says that the entire exterior of this craft was
put together with fasteners or rivets. She described and looking through these portholes,
she said, it looked like a shipping yard or a dry dock. She
could see bulkheads and very high beams like industrial. That was the interior this
craft. Now, this thing departed at a slow writer speed from her location,
so that's essentially the sighting. Wow. Yeah, this one is a
real good one. And as far as did they ever, they never acknowledged
or never you know, saw that she was looking below. No, she
said that they were oblivious to her. And what about her? I mean,
was she not afraid? Nope, she wasn't afraid. Nope. She
was hoping it would come closer. She looked through the portholes that were near
her location because she could see through the craft. She said that she could
see one end of the craft through to the other, and inside it looked
like it's like you're building a nineteen forty two vintage World War Two battleship.
It had bulkheads, it had cross teams, it had girders, you know,
very mechanical structure on the interior. Any other witnesses, No, she
was the only one. Yeah, I'm trying to remember who brought this up
At a conference I was at on this particular one. But I love this
one. And as soon as I saw the picture when you send me the
pictures, I remembered hearing about it and seeing seeing this and chest it's just
a shame that it was she she wasn't able to, you know, photograph
it somehow it'd be great. Yeah, and a credit goes to John McNeil
for this one. But that we're seeing a pattern recognition again here. So
you've got the cross beams, you've got the rivets, you've got the pipes
and cylinders. So that's being repeated in these multiple cases from different locations,
different timeframes. Yeah. And you know, some people have seen these craft
and they say that they see absolutely no seams of any kind. That wasn't
the case here. Yeah, I love it. With the rivets and everything
looks like, you know, like an old battleship or something. That's right,
that's right, and yeah, and it's hard to believe something like this
can just float there and then it is hard to believe. Yes, yeah,
yeah, that's a great one. What are your thoughts on this one?
What you know if again I'm asking you to speculate, sure, well,
when you when you look at the eyewitness reports, when they describe what
the underside of these vehicles look like. And we're going to talk about another
one of these here. I'm just going by what the eyewitnesses described, you
know, when you talk about the rivets, the bulkheads, the fact that
it has lit porthole windows, the pipes, and the cylinders. A lot
of times there was this electrical humming noise. Put that together, Martin,
it looks like we're dealing with a terrestrial technology here. Not maybe it's something
from a civilization long since the path. That's possible, But it just keeps
on coming up again and again. These same repeating patterns keep on popping up
in multiple cases. Wow. Wow, I think that's fascinating that she wasn't
scared at all. She wasn't Nope, she walked up even closer to it.
Yeah. I wonder if she had a flashlight and flashdate, it would
be a little different. It'd be great to see a photo of this thing.
Yes, Yeah, wouldn't it be? Wow? Yeah, that's a
great case. Great case. All right, So let's let's move on to
the So the next thing on to nineteen ninety four buckst in England. All
right, that's this one here, yep, okay, So we don't have
the exact month. The newspaper clipping only gave the year, so I know
it was nineteen ninety four. I know that that is the correct location Buxton.
So the report indicates that this person was driving down the roads about five
thirty in the morning. I guess he's going to work and he sees these
beaming spotlights approach his vehicle. He goes around a turn to kind of skirt
the edge of a bridge, and then what he sees next is this sixty
foot long elliptical shape craft with a notch cut out of the back of it.
There are two beaming spotlights in front, beaming ahead. He stops the
car. It's hovering about fifty feet above his vehicle. He rolls down the
window so he'll be on the right side because it's England, so he's on
the right side. He's looking up at this craft and he says that the
bottom of the craft was completely comprised of pipes in cylinders, in tubes.
It looked like silencers. And then this thing flew away at a kind of
a medium rate of speed. That's essentially the sighting in a nutshell, But
again the same type report. Again, these pipes and cylinders, this notch
cut out of the back. It looked like a flying horse shoe in a
nutshell. That's essentially this case. Yeah, and you don't hear a lot
of I've talked about this. You know, there's not a ton of cases
in Britain. In England, you know, mostly because of the weather there.
I mean, that's what I've been told actually by people that live there.
They say they don't have a high amount of cases. This looks like
you know, the illustration anyway, like it was a clear night, and
so they actually saw this. There was one one eyewitness that saw this,
but the report says that there was a virtual air show going on, not
a real airshow, but a show of these things. These were reported multiple
times at that time in that particular area. So he wasn't the only one
apparently who saw that. And for some reason in ninety four there was a
flap of these craft in England at the time. Wow, And that's that's
kind of curious there also, why there are flaps, you know, why
the why if there is a technology that's actually visiting us from somewhere and I'm
not talking about our own technology, but just say they're extra trust or whatever
they are. It's really weird that they concentrate themselves in one area if they
can travel so fast exactly. Yes, yeah, what do you think that's
about? If you had to get doing a test flight for some reason at
that area. Don't know for sure, but they definitely talk about how there
were multiple sightings in that particular area, so everything seemed to be focused just
during that time frame. Yeah, and then you have the Belgian wave.
You know, that was all you know, seen over and over again in
that one particular area. I never really get that. The hotspots why,
you know, if it's if it's not something like you said, we're testing
or whatever. Right, and so I see the next one is two thousand
and one. Yep, let's go to two thousand and one. Now,
in this case, Martin, I actually interviewed the primary eyewitness, so I
got it directly from him. It's April two thousand and one. Don't have
the exact date in April, but two thousand and one O'Hare airport. There
are four eyewitnesses. They were working at a location at the airport, something
called the Ozark Hangar. It had just this is early in the morning.
It had just rained, so the tarmac was wet. Where they were working
was wet, and all four witnesses. Now, in this illustration it looks
more like a cigar shape craft, but if you have a top view looking
down, it's more of a complete flying saucer. So this thing flew by,
and you know what they described as fifty feet in diameter. It had
a series of twelve elongated porthole windows wrapping around the outer circumference. He said
that there was a bubble transparent canopy up front that was back lit from inside.
It had had kind of a circular port hole opening, but really not
an opening at the top. But then, he said, as it flew
by, made a forty five degree angle, then continued out on its flight
path, he said that he saw these dangling octopus tentacles off the back end
of this thing. At the end of these tentacles there was what looked like
a twelve inch diameter ball or sphere, and these things were moving around like
they were alive. He kept on saying that the thing looked like it was
living. Now, while all this is going on, all four eyewitnesses heard
this low rumbling in the background. This was a seven four seven on takeoff
role at O'Hare Airport. This craft flew right over the active runway within a
matter of seconds the seven four or seven took off. So if this happened
just prior to, there would have been a mid air collision. So just
one point I'm making here though, is that here again we see these spires
with these balls at the end of them. This is going. I've got
a late twelve separate cases of these as well. Amazing and the fact that
you know this happened at O'Hare right, you know, five years before the
famed Gate Sea seventeen. I think it is siding in two thousand and six.
And you know, it's amazing to two sightings at one airport, it's
right wow. And so there were only four witnesses. Four witnesses saw it,
yes, and no one knows if this actually showed up on the radar,
don't know, don't know. I don't know if there's anything from the
tower, the tower or anything. But there there, we're literally talking about
seconds away from a mirror elation because this thing perhaps could have hit it,
we don't know for sure. But he said that he heard the rumbling of
the seven four seven in the background and then this thing took off so very
close proximity. Yeah, you know, other people have reported that something looked
alive as well. You know, you hear about the jellyfish type, you
know, UFOs and things like that, and that's just such another bizarre side
story on what people have reported. So they were like driving these Yeah,
it's a similar configuration to the Temple, Oklahoma case of sixty six where it
had the spire as well. So that's being repeated in this two thousand and
one case. Wow, that's really interesting. And yeah, I'm surprised that.
And I don't know if you know this or not, but can someone
get you know, radar information through the freedom of information? I think you
can. I think you can. I wonder if anyone's ever going to try
to look into getting that that date. Oh, they don't know exactly the
exact date. That's a problem. Yep. All he could remember is April
time frame, two thousand and one, early in the morning. I guess
you could track it by the weather. If you could find out what the
weather was on that morning, it'd be possible. It wouldn't be impossible,
but it could be done. Probably you'd have to do some digging. I
know that when you're applying for freedom of information, you have to be very
exact about everything. So if you have something like can I have this date
to that date, they wouldn't even respond to you. Yeah, that's what
I understand anyway. Wow, Okay, so now we have the two thousand
YEP twelve. Let's go there, all right. Okay, so credit goes
to David Marler for giving me this case, So I got to give him
credit. Now the report, it's a four page report. It includes a
very rough original sketch which I redraw, and then Tom Bogan did this illustration.
So now this is a this case happened multiple times. Now, the
primary eyewitness stated that he saw this triangular shape craft. It was about one
hundred and sixty feet across. It had rounded corners, so you've got a
triangle with rounded corners. It harbored over the little Putting River area that's near
Harbard, Oregon. That's the vicinity of this thing where this took place.
And what he stated happened is there was about a four foot to five foot
diameter clear transparent tube that retracted from the bottom of this craft. It started
sucking up water, and then immediately afterwards, water started spraying down from the
edges of that to back into the river. And then these three relief valves
popped out and they were spraying water as well concurrently as the tube was.
Now, while all this is going on, there were three lights going around
the outer portion of this craft. He said that there was cutout windows running
along the forward section of it, with a light going back and forth.
He also said there was kind of a slope dome with curved windows on top
that he could see as well. But while all this is going on,
he said that the sound this thing was making was like a kerchunk ker chunk
of a washing machine. And this thing would repeat the cycle multiple times until
it got done with itself whatever it was doing, pulling up the water in
tanks or something, and once it was finished, that tube on the bottom
would retract in the bottom of the craft, these relief voules would retract up
and then this thing would depart. Now, on one of these sightings,
it was there for about fifteen minutes, So the primary eyewitness went over to
the sheriff's department. He actually got the sheriff to come with and the sheriff
thought too, So it's a multiple witness sighting for this particular case. Wow,
has the sheriff ever spoken about this, not to my knowledge, but
he's aware of it. He's definitely aware of it. The report didn't indicate
anything that he stated, but he did see it. He did see it.
So maybe there's a police report. Not sure it doesn't talk about him
the report, but at the very least there's two eye witnesses that sought and
one eyewitness claims that it happened on multiple occasions. Yeah. My friend Lee
Spiegel does his own show called Edge of Reality. It's on Thursday nights on
KGr A radio, and there's archives, and I suggest to the listener out
there to check out last week's archive when he had Dave Marlaurn because he also
has the police officer that was with him when he had his nineteen seventy five
triangle sighting. The witnessed it together. So check out that episode. It's
it's fascinating. It's a good, it's a good, okay, okay show.
Um, So this happened in two thousand and twelve. I have heard
a number of cases where this type of thing happens. Not in this type
of detail. But I m where people have reported over lakes that they've actually
seen water being drawn up into these craft, and that would make me think
that also, this is not our own technology. Why would we have that
unless we're experimenting with you know, fire control, right, But it doesn't
seem to me, this doesn't seem like something that would be our technology.
Well, within the Gray Barker collection in Clarksburg, West Virginia, they have
a whole section of the autobinder reports and there are very similar reports of these
water pumper UFOs in that collection as well. So that's where you can track
the references for those. Well, yeah, and just the lights moving around
you're saying they're like orbs? Is that what you they were? They were
lit orbs and when it was done with whatever is doing, they merged with
the craft and then the whole thing took off. I love this one.
Wow, this is really great. So now let's go on to um,
you're going to have to share your screen again, sure, and let's go
on to some of the other Yeah. Screen, Okay, so let's see
here, Um when he does that work? Not yet, but I'll keep
an eye out for it, but um, it should pop up soon.
Just just take your time and do that, okay, And have you researched
while we're doing that and you're trying to figure out I'm going to ask you
to do two things at once. Here, have you besides Koufos, have
you done some further research? You did bring up some you know, a
few other places like Project Bookcase and stuff like that. Yeah. I've spent
a lot of time in Mufine Archives and all the Leonard Stringfield collections. I've
got the entire Nightcap collection, basically resource centers all around the country. Gray
Barker UFO Collection Clarksburg, West Virginia. They have an entire floor dedicated to
material. There's about twelve i'd say twelve cabinets there. So that's a resource
um. But again, a lot of these collections they get thrown out.
They get thrown out and so you it's all it's gone to history now.
So yeah, that happens. That's why, you know, I mean,
things can happen with the fire, and you know, that's why it's always
really great when they get into an institution like the McDonald you know collection for
one correct, Yeah, I see you. So you're having a little trouble
sharing your screen. All right, So let's see I've got I've got the
Falcon Lake case pulled up right now. Oh I love that one. You
can't see that yet right now, I'm not seeing it. Can't see that.
Okay, So let's see I'm here share. So there it goes.
How about now I got it? Okay? Good, okay, all right,
okay, So let's move on to this one. This is, as
you know, Martin, this is a very famous case. This is Falcon
Lake, Canada, May nineteenth, nineteen sixty seven. Stephen Mecalek is the
primary eye witness. Bottom line is is he was a rockhound. He was
collecting gems and minerals. So he had on his plaid shirt, he had
leather gloves on. He actually had a welder's helmet on as well. Just
prospecting, looking around. So in the background he hears this commercial commotion from
some birds. He looks up and he sees two this shipcraft that are about
forty feet in diameter. One of them departs, the other one the lands
about one hundred and fifty feet from his location, so he walks over to
it. It is this essentially seamless craft about forty feet in diameter. It
has an upper dome. Around the outer circumference of the upper dome, there's
these elongated slot cutouts within there. So he's walking up to the craft and
all of a sudden, this hatch opens up and this violent, violent colored
light comes out, kind of a purplish violet light. And he's looking in
the craft and he hears kind of this inintelligible language. He can't understand what
the language. It's some kind of foreign language. So he repeats back in
English, in German and French and Polish, is there anybody there? There's
no answer. All of a sudden, this door slam shut. You thought
that was kind of rude. And then this craft lifts off the ground about
a foot and then makes this counterclockwise motion. And then this other section,
which is about nine inches by six inches. It has a very specific whole
pattern. This part lines up with where he's standing, and it's either a
chemical exhaust or a hot air exhaust immediately comes out of this section and burns
him, sets his clothes on fire immediately after that portion. He had years
of medical issues associated with this, and the burn pattern on his chest matched
the whole pitch of the craft. Itself and then this thing departed. So
that's essentially the Falcon Lake encounter. Wow, and he became I believe he
became sick, didn't he? Yes, he became sick. Here is the
shot of him looking inside the craft itself. Oh yeah, he had definite
physical effects. They absolutely burn the portion of his chest and these burden marks
went away and came back again multiple times. And what was he doing with
that welders? He was trying to protect his eyes as he was chipping rocks
away. I see, that's why he had that. Yeah, all right,
yep, all right, what I'm going to do is up now.
And did he have any long long term effects? I know I've talked about
this case. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he went to the doctors
for years afterwards. In fact, he was very disoriented. It took him
hours to get back home. So again, this is another CE two case,
very solid. Could could be the most solid CE two case there is.
Wow. Okay, I'm just putting this image up overlaying it on top.
This was the grid for those on YouTube. This was the grid that
he was burning. This is when he was mostly recovered. Um, you
know, it's a later image, but anyway, and his clothes. Didn't
they save his clothes too? I think they did. Now he some people
don't know, but he actually wrote a book about It's very obscure. David
Marler has a copy in his collection. It's very obscure, but he describes
the entire case in detail. Wow. Yeah, And what about the believability
did he get? You know, did he get debunked or people try to
debunk this story a lot? Do you know. I've read some comments about
this, and one of these comments I think makes sense to me. It's
kind of something that might go against the case, but I'm just going to
bring it up either way. So, when you're talking about air flows and
aerodynamics and things like that, when air comes out of a hole, it
dissipates immediately. So for him to have such a focused burn seems a little
bit not saying it's not true, but the air would immediately have dissipated and
would not have stayed in this beautifully pitched hole pattern. But if it was
a chemical thing, that might have been different. But that was what one
person had talked about, which seems to make sense. You would think that
coming out of this port, the air would have dissipated immediately. Would never
been able to be focused enough to make that. But again maybe it's possible,
but that was one counter to the case that I did here. Yeah,
it would you know, the only way something could remain focused like that,
right, possibly if it was a high pressure you know, I mean
that is, the higher the pressure, the less it would dissipate. Um,
you know, depending on how close he was to it. So understanding
that he actually he touched the craft himself, it burned the glove and then
that's when he got burned as well. When this when the part lined up
with him, that's where he got burned. So he actually touched the craft.
So you know, it's a very powerful CE two case. Yeah,
yeah, I love that one. Wow. Interesting And again this credit goes
to your that's Tom Bogan. Yep. Yeah, Now he did these digitally.
Yeah, these are all doing and photoshop from the original s. So
we'd spend hours talking about the case. I'd send him all the reference material,
all the drawings, the report and then you know, like a lot
of these cases that it took weeks to do it. This is not easy
work. I mean it's down in the trenches and pulling out all the detail,
and you know, I kind of had to run how these things should
look. And then we went back and forth and it took years to get
all this pinned down. Oh, bet ware, where do you want to
go next? And okay, so we can certainly talk about Lonnie Zamora,
that Coral, New Mexico. Yeah, we can. We can talk about
that. So I think most people are aware. This is the famous Linnie
Zamora case nineteen sixty four. So he's the case starts with him chasing a
speeder. He sees something fly overhead and so he gives up the chase.
He follows this craft kind of down a bend area. He eventually gets fairly
close to it, and what he sees it's about a twenty foot long elliptical
egg shape craft. It's white in color. There were four pogal landing gear
legs supporting this craft. Then he saw it. He said, he saw
at least two small statured beings that were in white type fitting flight suits.
Now when they saw that he was being seen by Linnie Zamora, they disappeared
into the craft. And then this thing basically hovered off was there for about
sixty seconds and then departed, but he also said that there were flames associated
with the bottom of the craft that scorched the earth. And then Blue Book
investigators got there, the Air Force got there. They took photographs of the
landing marks, they took photographs of the burn marks. So it's another CE
two case that's very credible. And the reason why this is such a good
case is because of the reliability the credibility of Linnie Zamora. He was never
questioned on his integrity and that's what makes this case solid. Yeah, and
Jay allen Heineck actually invested agated this personally. And when I was speaking to
Ray Stanford, he he was there, you know, when Jay allen Heineck
was there. They were both there at the same time. So Ray tells
this story of spying kind of when they're looking around, you know, at
the burnt creosote bushes and the indentations, he spies a little bit of a
reflection on one of the rocks that was in an indentation. So he when
Jay allen Heineck and whoever else left there, he went back to the spot
dug out the rock. Did you ever hear this story? I heard that
there was some physical traces left over. Yeah, so it had like a
metal of filing, a metal you know, it was actually on the rock,
like a scrape, and there was actually material. He brought this in,
Um, I want to say Goddard. Now, I'm not really sure
that's right where he lives now, right next to there, but he brought
it in, you know, trusting that someone would just take He was very
specific, just remove a small part of this and please leave the rest on
Um. He never got anywhere he found. He ended up getting the rock
back completely clean. Yeah. So, which is the same shame, because
there there was It's such a great case. And you're right, you know,
I've never heard a negative word about Lonnie Zamorra. Nope, they never
did. Nope. He's pretty at the time. I think he was like
twenty in his twenties. I don't recall exactly what his age was, But
you're right, the integrity of that particular gentleman was never questioned. Right.
As a matter of fact, it's one that j Allen Heineck said, you
know, he really believed in this one all the way through. And ye
and what's your what's your? This is one where now a lot of people
speculate it was our own technology, so just have and I wonder what you
think about that. But secondly, these beings supposedly were very small, They
were very small stature correct. Now, One thing I will say is that
this thing happened within a stone's throw of White Sands missile range, that there
could be a connection there. But if you look on the map, we're
looking at just literally a stone's throwaway, right. And if they were testing,
you know, some of the debunkers I know said it's a lunar module
they were testing, and that doesn't make any sense at all. But if
they were actually testing something, if this was a test equipment, why would
they have these little diminutive figures operating the craft. I mean that that part
wouldn't make sense in that scenario. Well, plus, before it departed,
it hovered for a little bit less than a minute silently, and then it
departed. So we're not talking about you know, just rocket liquid rockets here.
There's something else going on. It's not just some liquid rocket powered lunar
module. There's something else going on here that we're not being told, or
something else completely different than that. But yes, also it had this insignia
that no one, to my knowledge yet has been able to decipher what it
was. It was in red, It was above this hatch, and it
looked like a TP with a slash mark and then a horizon above that.
No one has been able to decipher what that is to my knowledge. Now,
there's been a lot of controversy about that particular logo, whatever you want
to call it, because they told Lonnie Samora at the time, we're going
to say that it looked like this. That's because they didn't want any copycat
type of situation. They wanted to really investigate it. So I know there's
you know, Ray Stanford and a number of people have gone back and forth
of what the original actually looked like. And I know that Ben Moss is
coming out with a book and supposed that he's going to have he's working with
Ray and it's supposed to have you know, what was actually seen. It
seems like there was a lot of a lot of people causing a lot of
problem about that one small detail on this case. Did you notice that a
little bit? Yes? Yeah, and and but it uh it's another really,
I mean, I think it's one of the top cases myself. It
is one of the In fact, it's in the uh the briefing document that
was put together by Don Berliner Antonio. Who know is this was handed to
the Rockefeller Foundation. They're the ones who funded that research. So at the
very least Hillary Clinton, she knows about this. Bill Clinton, he knows
about it. So they're aware of it because they got a copy of that
report. Yeah. Now I will tell this, and I hope it doesn't
upset some people because they want to see what Ray Stanford has um and he
raised very careful about what he shares. I was at his house in Baltimore
and we actually visited Goddard his wife was working there, and got a tour
through there. It was really interesting. But he showed me some pictures and
he went back to the dynamite shack I think it was over one hundred days
afterwards, and wanted to take pictures of the area for research. So he
snapped a bunch of pictures and then he had someone, a friend or whatever,
stand over by the dynamite shock so they could get perspective just for the
you for a human figure. And he was going through the different images and
he showed me something while I was visiting him, And even though This was
one hundreds some odd days later. And this is what makes me think there
could be a White Sands connection. I actually saw it with my own eyes,
an image that he blew up, and it looked like an egg shaped
vehicle hovering even with feet hanging down, just like this image. And it
was not photoshopped. This was an original picture from nineteen sixty four or whenever.
This is that when that happened, Yes, nineteen sixty four. So
he has a photograph of an egg shaped craft parked in this vicinity. I
saw it with my not parked. It was in the sky, and I
saw this with my own eyes. You know, he took an image and
he actually blew it up, but it's as clear as a bell, and
he won't he's he does not want to put it out in public. And
I hope, you know, I will probably get some email help out that
because people are upset that he's not sharing it. He said, eventually he's
going to let the whole thing out. Um, you know, he's he's
pushing some age there right now, and so hopefully these things will He's got
quite quite a file of things and quite a collection of videos that he's taken
himself. That's pretty interesting. I spent a couple of days there and I
got to say that was the highlight seeing that picture. So he was on
the scene one hundred days after the event in sixty four, right, one
hundred some odd days. Yes, it took that picture, took a picture
for prospect. Never even noticed it until he was going through, looking real
carefully, and then he saw something and then he blew it up and blew
it up, and that's what it was. Interesting. Wow, that is
So we got a couple of minutes left here. You want to go into
another case, Yeah, I think we can. We can do one more
here, sure, and again you know, for the person listening, it's
going to be really worth it to check out this link I'll have and these
pictures will be there. So this is nineteen seventy Finland. There are two
skiers that see this pink cloud in their location. It gets closer and closer.
Now this is documented at least two different sources. In my book.
I talk about the references as well. This cloud parks over their location and
then then they see this beam of light shine down and then there's this huge
spark that takes place. The next thing they know they see this small I'm
going to call it a garden noome because that's what it looked like. I'm
not making up. It's in the report. This gardennome that was about three
feet tall, small stature. He was wearing a green one piece tight fitting
suit. He had green colored boots that were darker in color. He had
a cone shaped hat. He was carrying a box with what looked like a
lens and he was moving the box on his chest from one side of the
other like he was taking pictures of the two skiers. And then there was
another big bright spark and this being disappeared, and then this dome that looked
like a Damski's craft with the balls on the bottom. This thing departed at
a medium rady speed. And so this is back in nineteen seventy in Finland.
So we've got that case and that's been reported. In fact, we've
got the original sketches and photographs of the two ye witnesses as well. Yeah,
what a bizarre case. Bizarre justs are yeah, yeah, and a
dam Ski. I don't know, but I'm putting credibility on that. It
looks like that craft. Yeah about that? Yeah, that's great. That's
a great one. Uh yeah, we get a minute and a half here,
so let's let's just talk about where can someone find this? And these
all these illustrations and a lot more are in your in your book, so
where can someone get this? Yep? The book is called Dark Files,
A Pictorial History of Loss, Forgotten and Obscure UFO Encounters. It's available as
a Kindle downloadable file on Amazon right now. So just put in Dark Files
my name and it'll pop right up. That's great. And um, you
know, I gotta say, um, I, this is the first time
you've been on the show. I have to say that I really appreciate your
your hard work. Sure, and I'm glad that you know people will contact
you and you are in these uh you know, um different shows about the
topic because you take it serious and just you know, we have less than
a minute. But I've just wonder what you think about most triangle UFOs that
people are seeing today. Do you think there are technology? I do think
there are technology, Yes, I do the vast majority. Now I'm going
to leave it open, but if you go to David Marler's collection, he's
got a whole series on triangles and a lot of them have those same repeating
patterns that we've seen in the cases that we've examined today. Some of those
same type patterns appear in the Triangle craft as well. Wow, well,
I don't know what to say about that. I don't know for sure.
It's I don't think we'll know right away, but we may you never know.
Thank you so much, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you,
Martin, thank you. All Right, all right, everyone, so we're
gonna be back next week. We're gonna get Don Schmidt another chance, because
you know, he faded away on a lightning struck a transformer. Hopefully that
won't happen again, so he'll be with us next week. Thanks so much
for listening, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.