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Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and

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we have a great guest of this
evening. I actually had to do a

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prerecord for this guest just because of
the scheduling, and a lot of people

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were excited. I had Linda Zimmerman
coming up, but she has been bumped.

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She's happily bumped over to August fourth, so she'll be coming up as

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our as our guest. Now,
Michael Schratt. You've seen him on a

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lot of TV programs. He's a
private pilot aviation historian and he's been investigating

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the UFO encounters for over twenty five
years and he's meticulously reviewed a minimum of,

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get this, fifty thousand cases that
were preserved over at KUFO Center for

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the UFO Studies. Those archives are
in Chicago. We're gonna be talking a

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little bit about how he got access
to that. It's in his new book.

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So the name of his book is
Dark Files, and it's an illustrated

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book and some great images. I'm
actually if you're on YouTube, I'm going

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to be putting these images up so
you can actually see them live while we're

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talking. If you're are a audio
podcast, listener, no fret, I'm

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going to have a private link with
a YouTube video with basically the images coming

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up on like a slide images coming
up, so you can check out like

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a slide show on the link in
our show notes, So you'll just have

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to go there and our course,
our show notes are on podcast ufo dot

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com and when you're over there,
our blog is called it's kind of kind

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of goes along with the title of
Michael's book. It's called the UFO Dark

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Side anyway. And by the way, our blogger, Charles Lear, he

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was on another podcast and he sent
me the link and you know what he

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is. Yeah, he's really educated
in the topic. He knows a lot

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of facts. And I said to
myself, why haven't I had him on

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as a guest, And I'm going
to change that. I'm going to get

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him on this show at some point. So getting back to our website while

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you're there, there's a link to
our Facebook page, so check that out.

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There's over twenty some one thousand people
over there, pretty active, and

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check that out, and anyone can
support the show too. We do have

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a page on page and that's also
the links over there. And without further

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ado I would like to welcome our
guest on. Welcome to the show,

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Michael, Hi Martin. Good to
be with you. Yes, I know

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you. You have listened to some
of the shows in the past, and

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yeah, we had a little bit
of communication and then I got the wrong

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email address. I've wanted to have
you on forever, so I'm so glad

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you could finally make it. Absolutely
Yeah, and your work is really really

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good. And I've always had an
interest in any type of history, so

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the history of aviation is fascinating.
I was actually in a house in Massachusetts,

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I don't know, maybe five or
six years ago, and they had

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a part of I can't remember the
name of it, but at Kittie Hawk,

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Wilbur and Orville, right, they're
playing whatever the name was, the

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right, right, that's what it
was. They had a piece of that

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in their house and it was all
documented. And how do you how do

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you praise something like that? Yeah, that's true, it's historic, all

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right. Yeah. I wasn't the
whole plane, but it was a part

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of it, which was it was
all sealed in plastic. It was really

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really quite cool. But anyway,
so what is it the aviation side of

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this that gets you interested in the
topic, Yeah, I think the aviation

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side. Just being in the suburbs
of Chicago, I was in striking range

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of Oshkosh, Wisconsin, where they
have the convention every year, and so

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literally was going there every year for
about twenty seven years straight. And you

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know, one thing led to the
other, and just very interested in the

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whole subject altogether. But really being
so close to Chicago and Evanston gave me

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the opportunity to actually do a lot
of research at the q FOS Archives that's

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twenty four to fifty seven West Peterson
Avenue in the Chicago land area, and

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Mark Roddiger got to give him credit
for allowing me access to their collection,

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and they literally do have the largest
private collection of UFO cases pretty much in

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the United States, perhaps the world. And over a period of three years,

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I did go through pretty much all
their file cabinets and pulled out only

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the ones that had a really good
drawing, illustration, sketch. A lot

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of these had flight path recordings,
color line marker drawings. Those are the

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ones that I pulled out. And
when you put that together with the eyewitness

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testimony and a three page report Martin, at that point I felt I really

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had a good case and hopefully we
can go over some of those today.

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Yeah, so can you tell us
a little bit about KUFOS. Yeah,

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KUFOS was basically really started by Jalen
Heinek, and he's the one who founded

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the whole organization. Essentially, he
passed away in eighty six. Mark Rodiger's

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the current organizer. Now, from
what I understand, he's there. Those

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files have been moved from their old
location to UIC, so I don't know

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about the accessibility now. I think
it's a lot more limited than what I

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was there. So it's just a
good to be there when you had access

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to the files. Is that do? They have about fifty thousand files over

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that over there? So when you
walk in, here's the site picture.

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When you walk in, it's a
massive files. They've got thirteen file cabinets.

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They have a whole separate library every
conceivable book, periodicals, bank boxes,

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material And it took that long to
get through all that material. Now,

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I only could go there on Sunday, so that's why it took so

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long. But you know, basically
you get there on a Sunday morning,

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Mark would already be there answering messages
on the phone writing letters. They were

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going through. Iur back issues and
everything, and I'd be off to the

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side, pull open the file drawer
cabinet and just start going. And these

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things were packed so tight you could
not get your finger in between the files.

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They were packed so tight, so
you had to pull the thing out

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literally, open up each Manila folder, go through it. If it was

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a light in the sky and a
one page thing, I got, you

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know, went onto the next one
immediately. Only the ones that had like

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a three page report, a sighting
sketch, maybe something that showed the flight

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path, and a color illustration.
When those all came together, those are

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the ones I copied. So that's
how I narrowed it down to the most

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important. And some of these had
been buried in q PHOS files for forty

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years, never been seen by wow
the light of day period period. And

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so do you feel pretty comfortable that
those files are going to be well preserved?

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Yeah? I think so, Yes, I do, Yes, I

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do. And are they overseen still, you know by an organization? The

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organization an organism, I think it's
under the jurisdiction of Mark, But at

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this point I don't know. I
do believe they're no longer at the Chicago

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Land location in Evanston that area.
I don't think they're there anymore. I

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think they've been moved, but I
just don't know anymore. It's been years

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since I was there, so but
yeah, it's still accessible. It won't

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be as easy to do it though, Yeah, I know there's people looking

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to preserve, you know, and
for a future. You know, Dave

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Marler for one, working down in
New Mexico, and that's eventually going to

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go to um you know, a
university there, absolutely, and you know

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you can feel comfortable that will have
public access and be cared for when that's

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done. David Marler has done a
great job. I've been over there twice

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and just first class operation. Just
I mean when you walk in there,

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it's like a research library. He
has done such a fantastic job. It's

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it's beyond belief, really, it
really is. Yeah. Yeah, he's

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Yeah, he's a great guy and
I'm so glad that he's done that.

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I wish more people would help him, you know, financially, he's got

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a he has a page up and
you know, he he's doing this totally

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out of passion. He's not doing
this for any self gain at all,

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that's right. I mean, so
an he wants to see these things preserved,

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and I agree these things have to
be preserved. I also speak with

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class fawn over in Sweden and you
know they have a real nice archive over

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there, right and uh yeah,
fun stuff with all the research. So

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this is interesting because the files were
jammed tight together. Yeah, they worring

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through. So how would you just
keep a place by slide in a piece

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of paper and you know where to
go next or something? Basically? Yeah,

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yeah, I mean it's a long
It was a long process. You

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know. I didn't want to leave
anything unturned, so you know, it

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took that long to get through it. And some of the cases I could

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tell this has never been seen before, so immediately copied that. So did

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you actually look to see if things
were also reported to move on or some

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other not? Really, My time
was so limited. I just went with

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it, you know, went with
it. Is that typical though? Do

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people report to multiple sites? I'm
not sure. There might have been some

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bleed over, but essentially a lot
of these were sent to jail and Heineck

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for his comments and a lot of
people didn't know he passed away. In

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eighty six, and they just kept
on sending him file. So there's things

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in there from two thousand and one, two thousand and five. They just

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kept on sending the things over there, so it continued well beyond his passing.

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Wow, wow, that's amazing.
You know, when something starts that

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long ago, we're not talking the
digital age, so everything has to be

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you know, sent and mailed in. And yeah, that must have been

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fascinating to goth. I would love
to see that myself, so yeah,

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yeah, yeah, So what about
pictures? Photos? Did you actually see

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any? Yeah, there there were. There were a lot of sketches,

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a lot of hand drawn sketches.
Some people did color line marker drawings,

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so that was good. There's some
paintings in there. There were some photos,

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but no thing to write home about, I would say, so yeah,

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And unfortunately that's what everyone really wants
to see. I know, I

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know, you know, the evidence
Martin is always one step ahead. It's

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always the case. Yeah, yeah, it does seem that way. But

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what getting back to yourself, what
was it that you actually made you really

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look into this topic to begin with? Well, well, my one of

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my relatives, he was friends with
Jalen Heineck, so he kind of introduced

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me to it a little bit.
So he was he was kind of well

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known in Chicago Land area, so
I some credit has to go to him

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as well. How about that?
Wow? All right, well let's let's

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talk about some of the cases.
Now again I can bring When we talk

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about a case, I'll try to
bring up the image and if I get

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to get it wrong, just bear
with me. I'll try to get it

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right. But what a Let's start
out with any one of the cases that

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you came across. I mean,
because again I always like to hear something

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new. Yeah, I know,
it's always exciting, and not that these

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things are new. It's just like
you said, they hidden away for some

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up to forty years, pretty amazing. We can do it by date if

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you want, and start with the
earliest. Sure, that's fine. Yeah,

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let's go to eighteen ninety seven mystery
airship wave. All right, I'll

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try to look for that image.
I don't remember actually seeing that, and

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I'm wondering if I only got Oh
yes, I did get it. Here

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we there, here we go.
Yeah. Okay, so right off the

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bat, credit has to go to
Tom Bogan for doing this. So bottom

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line is literally, it took twenty
five years to compile all this information,

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then it took another four years to
commission the artwork, and then another almost

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a year just to get the inspiration
to write the book. So again Tom

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Bogan is the illustrator and credit goes
to him. So the goal was to

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make these cases come alive rather than
just let them sit in an archive in

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some dusty dark center somewhere. Get
these cases out, make them come alive

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through the use of brand new illustrations. That was the goal here. So

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this is the eighteen ninety seven Mystery
Airship Wave. Technically, when we talk

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about this, it actually started in
eighteen ninety six in the Sacramento Oakland area,

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but it's always been known as the
Mystery Airship Wave of eighteen ninety seven.

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So basically, we've got we've got
thousands of reports from California to Ohio

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bleeding into the East Coast. What
people were reporting and what you've seen here

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is kind of what it looked like. There was chaos, Oakland, Sacramento,

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San Francisco, chaos. People were
screaming, they were running through the

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streets. Covered wagons were overturned,
horses were dark through the dirt roads and

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everything. And what these people were
reporting is this strange bird light craft that

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had a wing on either side,
it had a tail, it had a

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gondola that was supported by what looked
like some kind of an airship or airbag

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on top, and then it was
beaming down these powerful lights below. And

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then if you look at the reports
Martin and there's hundreds of newspaper reports for

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that whole year. There they reported
well dressed, eccentric inventor type people on

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the decks of these craft. They
also reported big black dogs on the top

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of these Laughter was heard coming from
these things. Sometimes these things landed.

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They also dropped down anchors. And
so when you look at this and then

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Walter Bosley, credit has to go
to Walter. I personally, I think

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he's nailed it. I think he's
cracked the code of the mystery airship wave.

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He talks about the Sonora Aero Club
that met in the eighteen fifties,

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right along the same timeframe as the
California Gold Rush, so you're talking eighteen

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forty nine eighteen fifty timeframe. They
put together something called the Sonora Aero Club

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and they were financed by a mysterious
group known as NIMS up from quote unquote

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back East. We don't know a
whole lot about that, but Walter Bosley

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makes a very good case. And
Peter Menace was a part of this Sonora

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Aero Club and he invented something called
quote unquote nb gas. To this day,

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we don't know what it was.
We don't know how it was made

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because he died. And that was
the propulsion system behind these craft. Martin,

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Wow, Yeah, so I had
someone on, oh, I don't

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know, a few weeks ago that
wrote a book many years ago about the

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airship mystery. So this just happened, you know, just prior to the

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Spanish American War. Was wartime thoughts
made? Do you think? I mean?

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Was this in preparation for wartime?
What they were doing with these Well,

206
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:18,879
Walter Bosley in his book, he
talks about how there was a contingent

207
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:26,240
American group concurrently going on with this
that actually had a flight demonstration just prior

208
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,759
to the Civil War, and Lincoln
apparently knew about it. Abraham Lincoln knew

209
00:16:30,759 --> 00:16:34,200
about it, and so that's what
Walter talks about as well. So it

210
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,519
looks like there were different groups concurrently
going on at the same time, but

211
00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:41,720
the Sonora Aero Club appeared to be
the most advanced, right, I know,

212
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:48,320
hydrogen um you know, they were
using hydrogen hydrogen and some of you

213
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,559
know, the Civil War era and
very very flammable. There was a lot

214
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:56,200
of a lot of burns, a
lot of problems. But the one thing

215
00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:02,480
that's really curious about the reports on
these things is the bright lights. I

216
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:07,720
mean, did they have the white
technology. The intensity of what the reporting,

217
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,000
yeah, doesn't line up with the
weight of what that would be to

218
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:18,279
have something that they're reporting that intensity
of a spotlight would take a very high

219
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:23,759
electrical voltage charge or capacitor to have
that kind of intensity, and to have

220
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:29,759
it airborne seems to me it would
be very heavy, so that would undermine

221
00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:33,559
the lifting capability. So that's perhaps
where the NB gas came in, because

222
00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:38,079
they said that the NB gas drove
the propellers, they drove the wings,

223
00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,680
they drove the rotors on the side, so that may have been the power

224
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,440
source for the lights as well.
Wow, you know, it's surprising that

225
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:52,319
there isn't more information. Okay,
I know, where are they Martin,

226
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,440
Where are the prototypes? Where are
they had all these different models somewhere called

227
00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,039
the Goosey's and they had all these
different configure rais. Where are they?

228
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,160
Did they just disappear? And now
there was a fire that burned some of

229
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,200
them down, but there should be
something left over, but yet it's evaporated

230
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,440
from history. Yeah, yeah,
that is really bizarre, really bizarre.

231
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:17,599
You'd think there would be a barn
find sooner or later exactly exactly, and

232
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,759
especially like if the southern California,
a lot of things, you know,

233
00:18:21,839 --> 00:18:26,599
just last forever out there because of
the climate situation exactly. Yeah, you

234
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,759
find beautiful little cars and things like
that. And as far were people,

235
00:18:32,079 --> 00:18:34,319
you were saying that carts overturned,
so people were really afraid. Yeah,

236
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,480
it was. It was chaos.
It was absolutely because they didn't know.

237
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,759
And if you go back to the
newspaper clippings, there are hundreds of newspaper

238
00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:48,279
clippings about these and they describe kind
of like these long cigar shape craft.

239
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,839
They do talk about the wings,
they talk about the rudder, you know,

240
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,799
they constantly talk about how these people
who had contact with the people who

241
00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:00,920
were a quote unquote the pilots,
they were well dressed inventor types, they

242
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:06,880
were eccentrics, Um, some of
these guys had smokey colored glasses they were

243
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,680
wearing, and they said that quote
unquote, we cracked the gravity barrier.

244
00:19:10,759 --> 00:19:12,880
We figured out how to do it. So it wasn't like they were using

245
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,680
hot air. They were using something
else to drive these craps. That's the

246
00:19:17,759 --> 00:19:22,240
point of what Charles del Shaw talks
about in his paintings. Wow, you

247
00:19:22,279 --> 00:19:27,119
know, I know they had you
know, they had combustion engines, um,

248
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,599
you know, way before then,
I think in starting in the eighteen

249
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,240
fifties or something like that when they
first started with those, so they had

250
00:19:34,279 --> 00:19:41,000
a way to um, you know, propel these things with an you know,

251
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,799
with a combustion engine. But otherwise
they would just be floating around,

252
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:51,799
you know, like like a zeppelin, without any propulsion really to speak of.

253
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,039
And what about noises? Did people
report hearing like humming noises or anything

254
00:19:56,079 --> 00:20:02,240
like that. I don't recall any
severe humming noises in these cases. But

255
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:08,799
in Charles Delshaw's writings he talks about
that since Peter Menace was killed or murdered,

256
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:15,680
that they would no longer have these
test flights. So it looks like

257
00:20:15,759 --> 00:20:21,079
they had some afterwards. But by
that time we don't know what happened to

258
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,640
the NBA gas because he took that
secret to his grave. And so by

259
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,200
the time whatever it was ran out, the mystery airship wave just disappeared as

260
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,000
soon as it came on the radar
screen. Yeah, and did you mention,

261
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:41,200
I know you said it basically started
in California, but in you did

262
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,680
say, all the way to the
east coast right now, they made They

263
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,920
made it to Chicago, they made
it to Ohio, and then a little

264
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,480
bit further east from there, and
then they just cut off, cut and

265
00:20:49,559 --> 00:20:53,160
dry. They were. They stopped
completely. They re emerged in nineteen o

266
00:20:53,319 --> 00:20:57,720
nine, but the eighteen ninety seven
airship wave that cut off pretty quickly.

267
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,240
Didn't I hear about something in Europe
during that time? I think so?

268
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,440
Yeah, And yeah, I remember
hearing something about also the big lights coming

269
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:12,799
down, you know, maybe a
light overhead seems a little mysterious and whatever.

270
00:21:12,839 --> 00:21:18,160
But I can't picture them doing like
on lighthouses back then they had oil

271
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,039
oil lamps, you know, And
I can't picture you would have something flammable

272
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:27,160
like that up there right right,
you know, near and near flammable objects.

273
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:33,920
So as far as people seeing like
unidentified that we had no explanation.

274
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:40,319
Is that where it rolls into next? As far as what then, as

275
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,400
far as his history, and as
far as in your book, let's say

276
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,559
after eighteen ninety seven, where do
we go next from there? Okay,

277
00:21:47,599 --> 00:21:48,880
so you want to go to the
next case, sure, why not?

278
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:55,519
Okay, yeah, so let's go
to FDR soa USDR late nineteen fifty eight.

279
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,359
Oh wow, it took that.
Yeah yeah, Okay. So now

280
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:06,000
this one actually comes from mufon.
We've got the original sketch from Chester Grusinski.

281
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,039
He's the primary eyewitness on this.
Now, the story, the backstory

282
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:15,240
is there. It's late nineteen fifty
eight, it's Guantanamo Bay, Cuba,

283
00:22:15,519 --> 00:22:22,200
the USSFDR. It's about nine pm
and according to Chester Grosinski, there was

284
00:22:22,319 --> 00:22:26,000
commotion below decks. There were people
trying to rush up the ladder to get

285
00:22:26,079 --> 00:22:30,079
on top of the flight deck.
All these people were getting up there.

286
00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:36,079
Eventually twenty four naval personnel got to
the flight deck and what they saw is

287
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,880
a light approaching the aircraft carrier at
nine pm at night. It got closer

288
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:44,440
and closer. Eventually it parked itself
about two hundred feet above the flight deck

289
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,119
and it was no longer a light
at this point. It was a one

290
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:53,880
hundred and fifty foot cigar shaped craft. It had a series of square cutout

291
00:22:53,880 --> 00:23:00,359
windows, and the people on the
flight deck could see quote unquote human annoyed

292
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,799
looking beings walking back and forth within
this window section. And one of these

293
00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:11,079
beings actually put his hand above his
head like he was waving at the personnel

294
00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:14,839
down below who were looking back up
at this craft. Wow. At this

295
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,559
point, the people on the flight
deck they could feel the heat coming off

296
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:22,519
this craft under their faces. And
then this thing turned to an orange color

297
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,759
and shot off like a spark on
a grinding wheel and made no sonic boom.

298
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:30,559
This is back in nineteen fifty eight. And if you if you go

299
00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:33,480
to the next one, we think
we've got the enlargement version of it too.

300
00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:38,160
Oh okay, yeah yeah so uh
and does that one also say FDR

301
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,279
on it? Yeah, it should
said FDR on it, but yeah that's

302
00:23:42,279 --> 00:23:47,880
what reporting. Yepkay, so there's
the enlargement. Yep. You know,

303
00:23:48,039 --> 00:23:53,279
this is this is where you almost
wonder about the time travel thing. You

304
00:23:53,279 --> 00:23:57,519
know, people people uh, you
know, question whether that's a possibility.

305
00:23:57,799 --> 00:24:03,240
But you know, there it does
seem like the cigar shape and this almost

306
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,799
looks like elongated tic tac in a
way. Yeah, there you go.

307
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:14,240
Yeah, but a lot of the
cigar shaped things that people have seen over

308
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,319
the years do have like portholes and
windows. You hear about that a lot

309
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,160
exactly. But the humanoid figures and
let me just ask you this, do

310
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,359
you know if they they went into
some type of war mode, uh,

311
00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:30,039
you know, to protect themselves or
anything like that. The only thing I

312
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:36,960
could say is that this wasn't an
isolated incident. The FDR had a history

313
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:42,319
of UFO encounters. And the reason
why maybe because the USSFDR was the first

314
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:48,960
aircraft carrier to carry onboard nuclear weapons. So that might be the reason why.

315
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,400
Yeah. Yeah, I mean there's
there's so many when it comes to

316
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:57,720
the nuclear whole situation, it just
seems like there's so many tie ins with

317
00:24:57,759 --> 00:25:03,640
the UFOs um. You know,
even for instance, the Nimits that was

318
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:07,680
you know, a nuclear carrier,
m but you know not not I'm not

319
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,079
going to say it was armed with
nukes. I don't know that, but

320
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,839
uh but still, um, there
just seems to be some type of tie

321
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,960
in there. Who knows, but
this is a this is a real,

322
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,480
real good one. And what type
you said? You went off of a

323
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,599
sketch for this. Yeah, so
he provided an original sketch that was sent

324
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,119
to mufon. I've got it right
here. I don't know if we can

325
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:36,079
show this here, but uh,
this this is his original sketch. And

326
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,400
if you zoom in here you can
see, oh yeah, this gentleman,

327
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,079
there's the people on the flight deck
and you can see the being waving back

328
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,759
in the window. So, yep, this is his original sketch. He

329
00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:52,240
wrote an entire report and it's also
been recorded in two newspaper clippings as well.

330
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,359
And what about, um, where
there are other people as well that

331
00:25:56,519 --> 00:26:02,359
cooperated his work? Do you know
he tried to find some of the other

332
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,319
eyewitnesses, But the log books for
that day are missing on the aircraft carrier.

333
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,160
That's convenient, yep. Wow,
And and that that's a rare thing

334
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,279
to happen, really know, the
log book, Um, they're not supposed

335
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:21,440
to disappear. Yeah, yeah,
how about that. Well, that's that's

336
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,319
a great case. Uh. And
you know, as far as the humanoids,

337
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,680
you don't hear about that too often
people seeing that type of thing.

338
00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:34,119
But it's funny how when you do
hear about him, a lot of times

339
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:41,359
they're they're waving right, you know, you hear about that the New Guinea

340
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,880
case, and you know, yeah, that's the neck one on the list

341
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,119
here if we want to move to
that one. Sure do you know that?

342
00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:51,799
What the title Isn't that? It's
June twenty seventh, nineteen fifty nine,

343
00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:56,640
Father Guild case. Yeah, I
love that case and I will find

344
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,759
that here we go. Yeah,
Oh, let's go to the one prior

345
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:03,319
to this, so that's the enlargement. Let's go to the to the one

346
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,680
prior to this. Okay, but
let's let's talk about the story while looking

347
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,160
into them. Okay, that's fine. So it's six pm, it's June

348
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,759
twenty seventh. There we go,
nineteen fifty nine. Now there are at

349
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:22,680
least twenty five eye witnesses to this
case. That's kind of basically the setup.

350
00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:25,559
It was around six pm. Now, the day before, on the

351
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:29,000
twenty sixth, they had sightings as
well, but this one was on the

352
00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:34,279
twenty seventh. So Fathergill he is
brought outside twenty five eye witnesses. What

353
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:40,759
they're reporting They saw a thirty five
foot diameter dish shape craft that had two

354
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,160
tiers to it, so it looked
like a two tiered wedding cake. Bottom

355
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,039
diameter was thirty five feet, the
upper deck was twenty feet. It had

356
00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:53,680
what looked like cone shape landing gear
coming out of the bottom, So there

357
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,960
were four of these legs, and
on the top there were four human look

358
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:03,640
beings. Now two of them were
further back toward the center of the craft,

359
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,640
so they were somewhat obscured, but
the other two were nearer to him

360
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:15,440
and father Gil he was so excited
to see this. He definitely waved to

361
00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:18,359
the beings on the top deck and
they actually waved back. That's actually the

362
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,319
name of this illustration is they waved
back. So this went on for a

363
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:29,839
few minutes. They also used torches
and the craft responded to the torch movement,

364
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,200
and then these other two guys they
disappeared on the top deck, and

365
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,119
then a blue beam shot out at
about a forty five degree angle from the

366
00:28:38,119 --> 00:28:42,359
flight deck itself. That was there
for a few minutes, and then this

367
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,319
thing departed. But the bottom line
is that there were at least twenty five

368
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:52,119
eyewitnesses to this case, and we
don't know exactly what the purpose of their

369
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,079
landing gear legs were Now they could
have just been gear legs, but they

370
00:28:56,119 --> 00:28:59,640
could have been something else as well, because in some of the other sketches

371
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:04,039
it's a very interesting configuration. So
essentially that is the Father Guild case,

372
00:29:04,079 --> 00:29:11,960
another case where these beings they wave
back right right. And also if anyone

373
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,519
is curious to find out more,
all you have to do is Google.

374
00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:19,079
I mean, go on YouTube,
that is basically and put in the Father

375
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:25,519
Guilt UFO and you will pull up
a video of him in his own words.

376
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:27,720
I think it was recorded in the
sixties or something like that, but

377
00:29:27,799 --> 00:29:33,640
he will go into his own words
about the encounter. Very very believable,

378
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:38,279
and I believe at the end he
says something like, well, you know,

379
00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:42,000
you don't have to believe me.
I understand, but it did happen.

380
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,839
It did happen. Well, a
lot of these cases, Martin is

381
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:52,480
it doesn't become real to you until
you have a personal connection to the sighting.

382
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,799
Now I didn't know Father Gil,
but being connected to q FOS and

383
00:29:56,839 --> 00:30:02,680
then being a good Paul Heineck,
I spoke to Paul Heineck about this,

384
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,279
and I think he said that it
was nineteen seventy four where Father Gil came

385
00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:15,079
to Evanston and they had dinner with
Father Gill and Jalen heine and Paul Heineck

386
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,319
was sitting right there at the dinner
table, and Father Gil was laying out

387
00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:23,160
this entire case. He wasn't seeking
fame, he wasn't seeking fortune, he

388
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,799
wasn't trying to make himself look popular
or anything. He was just laying out

389
00:30:27,839 --> 00:30:33,559
the entire case. And he was
completely credible, completely reliable. And when

390
00:30:33,599 --> 00:30:37,920
I heard that from Paul Heineck,
Yep, there you go. It's yes,

391
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,160
it's it's legit. It's legit.
I do, I do. I

392
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:45,039
actually did hear him talk about that. I bet him last year out in

393
00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:49,000
Okay Phoenix, and yeah, he
did talk about sitting there and hearing about

394
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,119
that. Yeah. I think that's
to me when I first was really looking

395
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:59,400
seriously into that topic and I found
that online and read about it and then

396
00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:02,559
watch the video, It's like,
hell, Macco, that one is.

397
00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:07,000
That's a real interesting one. And
you know, I think he I think

398
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,640
it went on for another day,
right, didn't they see something that there

399
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,279
were There was a whole series of
sightings in that timeframe, So it wasn't

400
00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:18,480
just that day, there was a
whole series of sightings in that area.

401
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,519
Yeah, makes you really wonder what
that was about, you know, like,

402
00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:27,640
right, well, whoever they were, wherever they were from. Um,

403
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,680
you know, it's funny that they
actually I like those things that are

404
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,839
bizarre myself because they're almost more credible
in a way. Right, picture them

405
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,480
on top of this thing. I
mean that that's bizarre if gass me the

406
00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:44,319
beings coming out on top of it, like they're on the top of a

407
00:31:44,359 --> 00:31:48,519
submarine or something. And then the
reaction with the people. I think he

408
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,079
sent someone in to get a torch
that they call a flashlight a torch and

409
00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:59,240
came back out. And then the
interaction with that I do believe. I

410
00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:05,880
do believe. He says that they
move. They basically move the torch back

411
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,720
and forth like this, and then
the object actually moves. It responded Yep,

412
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:15,559
that's right. It responded to the
movement. And uh that really that

413
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,160
really makes you it's a wonder they
didn't land. Whoever they were, right,

414
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:24,480
and you know, have more interaction
And have you ever pondered that why

415
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:32,079
there's no you know, public interaction
with if it goes that far and it

416
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,519
stops right, right, I think
wondering. I think we could be looking

417
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:44,279
perhaps at a high tech civilization that
may have been on this planet for thousands

418
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:46,920
of years. That might be a
part of this. I'm not sure,

419
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:52,799
but if you look at it,
there's different configurations. We do see some

420
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:58,519
similarities on the dress that these beings
are wearing a lot of times, and

421
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,079
it's this is really strange. Some
of these beings have cone shaped hands.

422
00:33:02,119 --> 00:33:07,279
I've seen this again and again,
this pattern that keeps repeating with these cone

423
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:09,599
shaped hands. I'm not sure what
it means, but it's in the cases,

424
00:33:10,079 --> 00:33:15,279
so that is a repeating pattern as
well. I wonder, you know,

425
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,839
you always think about evolution, and
I wonder what type of evolution would

426
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,599
make a cone shaped hand work?
Right? You know, so maybe maybe

427
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:30,799
something on wherever they're from makes it
necessary for them to eat that way,

428
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,480
or something, you know, get
into some type of plant to eat,

429
00:33:35,559 --> 00:33:37,759
or I don't know, you know, I mean, it's all speculation,

430
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:45,960
but yeah, and you know,
since you are a person that really looks

431
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:52,440
at the structured craft that people are
reporting, do you think it's kind of

432
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:59,839
bizarre where there seems to be periods
of like discs and then periods of triangle

433
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,839
and you know things like that.
Have you ever wondered about how well,

434
00:34:04,519 --> 00:34:07,199
like like they say, triangles are
all the rage now, but we've got

435
00:34:07,239 --> 00:34:12,199
the cigar shape craft and we've got
the flying platforms as well. So those

436
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,880
are kind of like the four primary
configurations that we've seen. And when one

437
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:20,760
ends, the next one comes up, so like they retire that version and

438
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,840
they move to the next one.
It does seem that way end up.

439
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:29,840
And it doesn't really make any sense
if it really comes to the point where

440
00:34:30,039 --> 00:34:35,400
you know, these civilizations could be
multimillions of years older than we are and

441
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,400
stuff like that. Why at one
point would they have one craft and then

442
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:43,320
another craft? And I don't know
are they is it just coming from different

443
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:49,159
places? I mean there's again there's
million questions but no answers. Yeah,

444
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,800
but it's it's totally fascinating. And
so you want to move on to Temple,

445
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:58,519
Oklahoma. Sure, this is Mark
Ye March twenty third. There you

446
00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:02,400
go, nineteen sixty six, Temple, Oklahoma. Now this, gentleman,

447
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,119
this is this is a project blue
bookcase. You can verify this. This

448
00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:14,199
is an actual Project blue bookcase.
Eddie Lackson, who is a electronics technician

449
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,280
instructor at Shepherd Air Force Base.
It's five or five in the morning.

450
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:22,039
He's going to work, and all
of a sudden, the road is blocked

451
00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:28,360
by this strange craft very they describe
it, or he describes it as a

452
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,559
perch or fish shape craft. So
he stops the car, he gets out

453
00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:37,920
of his vehicle, and what he
sees is this elongated torpedo shape craft.

454
00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:42,920
Now I've got a copy of his
original sketch. David Marler has the entire

455
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,719
report, so credit has to go
over to David because he's got the twelve

456
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,360
page report. He gave me a
copy of that. But now his original

457
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,920
sketch is really rough. I mean
it's really rough and it's out of scale.

458
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:59,320
So spent at least a day fixing
that and making it up to spec.

459
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,440
But anyway, his sketch says that
the craft was seventy five feet in

460
00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:09,519
length. It was eight feet tall
the very forward section and will work after

461
00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:14,119
As we go along here, it
has a three foot diameter bubble transparent canopy

462
00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:16,719
that looks like it was something off
of B twenty six, and then it

463
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:22,679
had two powerful spotlights beaming in the
forward. As you get toward the upper

464
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:28,159
spine, there was this spire or
stinger that swept back like a trolley car

465
00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:32,800
from San Francisco, but the electrical
trolley cars. Like an electrical trolley car,

466
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,480
it has that stinger that goes up. That's exactly what this craft looked

467
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,840
like. Then it had this baseball
or softball sphere at the end of that

468
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:46,800
spire. He also said that there
was a hatch that was about two and

469
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:52,840
a half feet wide maybe four point
five feet tall, and he said that

470
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,440
right next to there there was this
military looking guy. He had green fatigues

471
00:36:57,519 --> 00:37:02,280
on and he had chevrons on his
shoulder, and he was shining a flashlight

472
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,480
on the bottom of the craft like
he was looking at something. It also

473
00:37:06,559 --> 00:37:10,039
had this airstare, so it was
this hatch that came down with this airstair

474
00:37:10,119 --> 00:37:14,199
that you would see on a layer
jip. Now behind the air stair was

475
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:20,360
another three foot diameter porthole window that
was lit from inside. It was divided

476
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,679
in four equal pie segments. Just
after that, there was the designation Martin

477
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:30,360
t L four seven six eight written
in black letters on the side of the

478
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,559
craft. He actually mentioned this.
Now to this day, I don't think

479
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:37,679
anyone can figure out what that meant. I have looked. I don't know

480
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:43,800
what that designation meant. Now,
he wasn't exactly sure about the last two

481
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,400
characters, but that was his best
representation. Now, the whole craft was

482
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:52,760
sitting on what looked like four lunar
landing gear legs, and at the end

483
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:58,159
of this craft it had what looked
like very small flight controls, too small

484
00:37:58,679 --> 00:38:06,199
to be anything actually practical for aerodynamic
flight. Now, when this gentleman who

485
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,920
was shining the flashlight at the bottom
of the craft, when he saw he

486
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:15,559
was being looked at by Eddie Lexon, he immediately ran up the stairs.

487
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,840
He closed the door. And then
this is something I've heard again and again,

488
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:23,039
Martin, again and again, I've
heard this. Just before this thing

489
00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:30,320
departed, there was a high pitched
drilling noise, and this thing levitated off

490
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:36,360
the ground and departed like boom gone. It made no sonic boom. And

491
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:42,400
at that altitude we're looking at supersonic. So this thing exceeded mock one at

492
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,440
ground level and made no sonic boom. This is all back in nineteen sixty

493
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,280
six. Yeah, I was just
going to ask you what year that is.

494
00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:52,920
Yeah, that is so crazy.
No sonic boom and all that.

495
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:59,039
And it makes you think of our
technology. You know, is it possible

496
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,119
that we actually had this type of
technology back then? And if so,

497
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,360
why aren't we using it? You
know, I mean, nineteen sixty six,

498
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,920
that's just unbelievable. Oh and here's
the other thing too, And this

499
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:20,000
is in the newspaper clippings and Blue
Book investigated that the US Air Force investigated

500
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,039
Eddie Laxon. When he was interviewed
by officials, he said that he could

501
00:39:24,119 --> 00:39:30,360
recognize this gentleman if he saw him
in the street that afternoon. Wow,

502
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,480
that's how close he was. So, I mean, it's it's a good

503
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,559
sighting, very good sighting, official
Project blue bookcase. Yeah. And again

504
00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:45,000
you know, is it almost makes
you think that it could be a time

505
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:52,079
travel thing one more time? You
know that this guy looked like a military

506
00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:57,159
yep in fatigues and chevrons and and
all that. Uh So that is really

507
00:39:57,199 --> 00:40:01,960
a bizarre anyone ever seeing anything anything
like that ever reported? Again, Well,

508
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,000
truck drivers saw it too, so
he wasn't the only one. They

509
00:40:07,079 --> 00:40:09,079
interviewed some of the people who drove
down there and they saw it too,

510
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:15,000
So it wasn't an independent case.
I mean there were multiple eyewitnesses. Yeah,

511
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,239
And why would it land in the
middle of the highway, That's another

512
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,639
thing. And how about as far
as where it was located, are there

513
00:40:24,679 --> 00:40:30,679
any air bases or test sites?
It was it was near Shepherd Shepherd Air

514
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:36,400
Force Base, Okay on the Temple, Oklahoma border the Texas Oklahoma border.

515
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,880
That's not too far from where that
Air Force base is. Because he was

516
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,920
working there as an instructor and so
he was going there in the morning.

517
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,840
He just ran across this thing.
And if you go to Clarksburg, West

518
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,440
Virginia where they have the Gray Barker
Collection, they've got some of the original

519
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:58,719
sketches there. It also talks about
how truck drivers saw it too. So

520
00:40:59,639 --> 00:41:04,639
wow, if you know, if
you had to speculate, what would you

521
00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:08,159
think it is? I mean,
have you thought about what the possibilities are

522
00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:12,360
and something like this, Martin,
I think it's one of ours. Yeah,

523
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,480
I think it's one of ours.
Yep. And you think they actually

524
00:41:15,519 --> 00:41:17,280
could have had that technology back then? Yes? I do, Yes,

525
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:22,480
I do. And what do you
think they'd be doing with this technology if

526
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,920
they weren't using it during the Vietnam
War or you know, you're talking about

527
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,679
the speed without you know, breaking
the sound barrier. Things that seem to

528
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,159
defy I guess I would say is
that I guess I'm limited in what I

529
00:41:37,159 --> 00:41:43,000
could talk about here. But they're
just they're designed to control the high ground.

530
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,039
They're designed to control the high ground
because anyone who controls the high ground

531
00:41:47,039 --> 00:41:52,320
in a battle field environment, they
win the war. And so this is

532
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,840
a that's part of that. But
but bottom line is, if you look

533
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:02,760
at the newspaper clippings, they were
experimenting with cracking the gravity barrier in nineteen

534
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,480
fifty four. Was a report in
the newspapers in nineteen fifty five. Now,

535
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:10,280
if we go back in time to
eighteen ninety seven, the history of

536
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:16,400
this stuff goes way before Kenneth Arnold. We could be looking at a progression

537
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:22,199
of technology from that time frame up
to sixty six where Eddie Laxon saw that

538
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,920
craft. But really, if you
want to know more about that, just

539
00:42:25,039 --> 00:42:30,480
read Walter Bosley. But he traces
the whole history of this and I don't

540
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,880
even think he's given enough credit.
He has not given the credit he deserves

541
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,840
for piecing this together because I think
he's figured out the mystery airship weave siting,

542
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,119
and that was the origin point where
a lot of this can be traced

543
00:42:42,119 --> 00:42:47,199
back to. Now, what about
so this craft or whatever it sort of

544
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:52,079
displayed anti gravity? Is that what
you do You think that's what we were

545
00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:57,199
seeing? Well, he was saving
there. In the Lonnies and more a

546
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,559
case, they have the same thing. On three other cases in my book,

547
00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:04,559
they talk about the same thing.
There's there's always this Martin, this

548
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:10,559
high pitched drilling noise like they're starting
something, like they're engaging something. If

549
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:15,119
this was alien, it would either
be on or to be off. You

550
00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:22,000
wouldn't have this demarcation of complete silence
and then like something chugging up and running

551
00:43:22,039 --> 00:43:25,760
up or spooling up. It sounds
very industrial, it sounds very mechanical.

552
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:30,840
And in some of these other cases
that we'll talk about here is people who

553
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:36,119
look inside these craft. They see
rivets, they see bulkheads, they see

554
00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:39,320
stringers. It looks like a quote
unquote shipping yard, something that you see

555
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:44,079
on a dry dock on the East
coast where they're building a battleship. A

556
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:49,360
very mechanical, man made construction.
Martin is what these people are reporting when

557
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,360
they see inside these craft. How
do you think that it would be possible

558
00:43:53,519 --> 00:43:59,760
that something like this could be kept
secret if we had it. They can

559
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,920
do it if they want to.
I mean, when they really want to

560
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,320
keep a secret, they can do
it. They can do it, they

561
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,840
compartmentalize it. It can be done. It can be done, and it

562
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:15,679
can absolutely be done. Wow,
it's really really in a way, it's

563
00:44:15,679 --> 00:44:21,039
hard to believe that someone wouldn't come
forward and say, hey, you can't

564
00:44:21,039 --> 00:44:24,239
believe the technology we had back in
nineteen you know, sixty, Well,

565
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:29,159
the giggle factor is still in place. Yea, even in twenty twenty.

566
00:44:29,199 --> 00:44:32,199
The giggle factor is still in place
because if you talk about this, you

567
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:36,920
know, you can get crucified.
So you have to be very careful how

568
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,480
you present it. So yeah,
but all right, let's let's fast forward.

569
00:44:39,559 --> 00:44:44,159
And we got about seven minutes or
six and a half minutes to a

570
00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:47,440
break. Let's let's fast forward though, too, just on this topic while

571
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:55,639
we're on it right now. For
now, the the government is basically looking

572
00:44:55,679 --> 00:45:02,599
into the topic. M sure.
And and so if if it was part

573
00:45:02,599 --> 00:45:07,519
of what we had, wouldn't they
say, wouldn't the government know that?

574
00:45:07,599 --> 00:45:12,199
And just say, hey, you
know, don't waste your time, you

575
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,519
know, Well, we'll talk about
it and tell you this is you know,

576
00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:20,920
from the private sector, this is
something that we'd known about for and

577
00:45:21,039 --> 00:45:24,400
have used this technology. Well,
honestly, I don't think they're obligated to

578
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:29,920
say anything. Really, when you're
dealing with this kind of level of technology,

579
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:34,199
they're not obligated to say anything,
and they can keep it under wraps.

580
00:45:34,519 --> 00:45:38,199
So they would just assume that we
would spend the time, effort,

581
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:43,039
and money to keep looking at what
these things are and not say anything.

582
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:45,159
I think that could be the case, Martin. They're not going to show

583
00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:52,840
their cards. They'd much rather have
you think that it's an alien spacecraft from

584
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:57,679
light years away. And all I'm
going to say is that the truth on

585
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,679
some of these might be a lot
closer to home. I'm gonna leave it

586
00:46:00,679 --> 00:46:05,559
at that. Yeah, But is
it also your opinion that we may be

587
00:46:05,679 --> 00:46:09,840
seeing something from somewhere else? Could
be could be yes, because there's a

588
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:15,559
lot of talk about different timelines converging. We could be looking at something in

589
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:20,920
the future. Absolutely, there's cases
in eighteen fifties in Wahaco, Mexico,

590
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:28,880
where people were seeing these they call
them golden birds that were shining beaming spotlights

591
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,400
down like in eighteen forty nine eighteen
fifty time frame. Now it could be

592
00:46:31,679 --> 00:46:36,280
part of our early airship testing,
but that's been going on too. So

593
00:46:36,599 --> 00:46:38,559
you can't deny these sightings. You
can't. Maybe one or two, but

594
00:46:38,679 --> 00:46:44,719
not all of them. Yeah,
especially when we have multiple witnesses involved.

595
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,599
I think we have time before the
break to do one more case if you'd

596
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:53,119
like to. Yep. So let's
go to nineteen seventy two Venezuela. All

597
00:46:53,199 --> 00:46:58,639
right, December, this one right
here right yep. So a lot of

598
00:46:58,679 --> 00:47:02,159
that thing into getting this one.
When I saw this one Martin at the

599
00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:05,880
Q four Sarca, I said,
Nope, that's the one right there,

600
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,559
because no one's ever seen as far
as I know, it's never been printed,

601
00:47:08,599 --> 00:47:12,880
it's never been reported, it's never
been put in a newsletter period.

602
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,920
It was completely blank, been sitting
there for thirty five forty years. So

603
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,719
when I saw that one, I
said, yep, we got to do

604
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:22,440
this one. So the backstory on
this it's December twenty sixth, nineteen seventy

605
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:29,199
two, Maricibo, Venezuelia. There
were three primary eyewitnesses. They're on the

606
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,480
fourteenth floor of their apartment complex.
So the husband saw it, the wife

607
00:47:32,519 --> 00:47:36,920
saw it, and their young daughter
saw it as well. They were looking

608
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:43,000
over the city expecting to see this
airliner make a landing at the local airport.

609
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,000
Now what they actually saw. Now, this is the husband. He

610
00:47:45,039 --> 00:47:50,880
describes it. Now. He included
very good pencil sketches of what he saw,

611
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,800
and he included a three page report
with the sketches together. I know

612
00:47:54,880 --> 00:48:00,639
it's real. The way he wrote
this sketch completely incredible. So what he

613
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:06,559
expects to see is a commercial airliner
approaching his apartment complex, but that wasn't

614
00:48:06,559 --> 00:48:10,440
the case. What he saw was
an orange colored light, and he thought

615
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,880
that an engine was on fire,
like inside the engine the Sullivant airliner.

616
00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:19,360
It looked like something was on fire. Now, as this thing got closer,

617
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:24,519
this was no aircraft. This was
absolutely no aircraft. It was kind

618
00:48:24,519 --> 00:48:30,760
of an elliptical shape craft. It
had these exhaust ports on you could say,

619
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,280
about sixty percent back from the leading
edge of the craft, wrapped around

620
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,559
the entire left back and then over
to the right hand side, and you

621
00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:40,239
can see that right here. He
drew sketches of what this looked like.

622
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:45,440
Now, this thing passed within one
hundred and fifty feet of his location and

623
00:48:45,519 --> 00:48:50,320
made about a forty five degree tip
up angle and then continued on its flight

624
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,679
path. He actually called for his
daughter to run next door to the neighbor's

625
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,800
apartment and get out the binoculars.
So he saw this in binoculars. And

626
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:04,440
if you go to one picture ahead
of this one Martin, you'll see that

627
00:49:04,519 --> 00:49:08,159
what he described seeing on the bottom
of this craft were these two half hemispherical

628
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:15,920
insulators. Inside these insulators or half
hemispherical domes, there was this electrical spark

629
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:22,480
gap mechanism, and a continuous blue
arcing flame was going through this entire section

630
00:49:22,519 --> 00:49:28,320
of the craft continuously as this thing
was flying by, So you can kind

631
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,320
of see what this thing actually looked
like. Now. A few minutes later,

632
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:36,239
as this thing departed off toward the
location of the airport, another craft

633
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,639
identical to this one flew the exact
same flight path that got within one hundred

634
00:49:39,639 --> 00:49:44,480
and fifty feet of the witness.
He saw the same thing twice, so

635
00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:47,039
that's how he got a real good
look at what this craft actually looked like.

636
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,079
Wow, and how many people were
reported this? Do you know?

637
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:58,239
Is it just well? He wrote
in the report to jail and heinek q

638
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:04,239
FOS. But it took place seventy
and seventy two, so this is a

639
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,519
long time ago. This is written
in and we've got his original case report,

640
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:13,559
the original sketches. Yeah, you'd
have to think that if someone is

641
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,280
going to hoax something like this,
why would they go through all the trouble

642
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:22,960
and all the detail and you know
it just it and to report it without

643
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:29,719
you know, any other witnesses.
Some may say, you know, why

644
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:35,400
bother, But I'm surprised that more
people didn't see this, and they could

645
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,239
have seen it, but they didn't
report it to q FOS anyway. Now

646
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:42,079
I could have been seen by others. I'm sure it was, but he

647
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,039
was the one who filed the official
report. And then going back to those

648
00:50:45,079 --> 00:50:52,239
exhaust ports, he said that they
looked like flames, but they didn't behave

649
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:58,039
like flames. They behave more like
an electrical arc with a very sharp knife

650
00:50:58,039 --> 00:51:00,880
cutoff edge, like someone took a
butter knie and chop the edges right off.

651
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:05,519
It was cut and dry, So
these things didn't dissipate like a flame

652
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:09,480
would, but they had a very
sharp termination point. It doesn't make any

653
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:14,320
sense in any way, and that's
why I like it. Yeah, that's

654
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:19,199
right. Wow. And did he
describe these colors as well, that you

655
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:24,559
have this is like a really bright
basically like a when you spark a welding's

656
00:51:24,599 --> 00:51:29,119
torch. That's what this looked like. That's what these things look like.

657
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:35,000
Yeah, and you'd almost assume that
this part of the blue electro right,

658
00:51:36,679 --> 00:51:42,239
well, the sparks and everything could
be possibly some type of propulsion or you

659
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,360
know, I mean, is exhaustive, you know, it's just all speculation.

660
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:50,760
Well, he did say that as
the craft passed him by one hundred

661
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,679
and fifty feet away, the smoke
from this sparking mechanism moved with the craft.

662
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,800
It didn't dissipate in the wind or
the air behind it, It moved

663
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,239
with the craft. Wow, pretty
amazing. All right, Well we are

664
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:07,159
ready to go into the break,
So hanging everyone, we'll be right back

665
00:52:46,599 --> 00:52:52,519
right, We're back. My guest
this evening is Michael Schratt, and we're

666
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:57,760
talking about some great historical UFO cases, mostly unknown, I would say,

667
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,039
And well, I know some of
them are unknown, and I do believe

668
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:07,800
Michael, it's possible that some of
these are known because of you bringing them

669
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,280
back to light. I guess,
so, I guess so. I mean,

670
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,880
I don't care about fame and fortune. I just want to get these

671
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:16,480
out there, you know. I
just I want to see them alive myself.

672
00:53:17,159 --> 00:53:20,239
I'll do it for free, you
know, because I just want to

673
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,159
see him come alive myself. I
think they're just that interesting. So yeah,

674
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:28,679
I think that's why it's really important
to, you know, preserve you

675
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,199
know, the old cases like this, because well, you know, maybe

676
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:37,039
the witnesses are long gone, but
still they're really fascinating. And you know,

677
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:42,679
if the witnesses aren't long gone,
you never know when something like this

678
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,519
gets out. I talk to people
all the time that will a case actually

679
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:53,079
hits TV or something. For instance, in contact with Calvin Parker would talk

680
00:53:53,159 --> 00:53:59,000
every few few days right now because
he's trying to get the other witnesses that

681
00:53:59,119 --> 00:54:01,960
actually saw the we're trying to get
them all together with him on this show.

682
00:54:04,119 --> 00:54:07,599
But you know, they they didn't
come forward until just recently. That

683
00:54:07,679 --> 00:54:12,400
happened so many years ago, but
it gets it gets the spotlight, so

684
00:54:12,519 --> 00:54:15,719
to speak, and all of a
sudden someone comes forward. It's like Kevin

685
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:21,719
Day from the Nimt's case listened to
my show with Robert Powell, and AH

686
00:54:22,159 --> 00:54:27,960
got in touch through that way through
Facebook. So yeah, it's interesting how

687
00:54:28,159 --> 00:54:30,119
these things work. Good to get
them out there. As you know,

688
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:35,760
Martin, only ten percent of cases
are reported that we're missing so much as

689
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,800
it is. Yeah, I mean
I didn't report my own personal case,

690
00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:43,719
you know, because I didn't have
I for one thing, I had no

691
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,679
idea you could do go online and
report something. This was in two thousand

692
00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:51,440
and six. I had absolutely no
idea, and I had no idea who

693
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,519
to report it to. I call
the police, okay, because I just

694
00:54:54,519 --> 00:54:59,440
didn't know, you know, what
to do, and I got fed up

695
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:04,599
and hung up the phone. I
didn't even you know, so mind's unreported.

696
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:09,079
And I've been in crowds at conferences
were the question is asked, how

697
00:55:09,079 --> 00:55:14,519
many people have seen something that they
absolutely cannot explain? And the skuys and

698
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:17,159
you look around and it's like ninety
percent. Of course, so those people

699
00:55:17,159 --> 00:55:22,159
are going to a UFO event,
so they're more likely to raise their hand.

700
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:28,480
But then when the person would ask, all right, how many people

701
00:55:28,599 --> 00:55:32,599
reported it? Almost all the hands
go down. You know, there's only

702
00:55:32,639 --> 00:55:37,280
like, probably you're right, ten
percent still holding their hands up, that's

703
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:44,599
right. So yeah, And as
far as people reporting, you know,

704
00:55:44,679 --> 00:55:49,920
I mean, do you feel like
they're handled fairly well with a couple of

705
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,119
institutions out there now, or how
do you feel about that? Well,

706
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:59,039
if it doesn't have a sketch and
a and a actual handwritten report to go

707
00:55:59,119 --> 00:56:04,599
with it, it's just a it's
just a voicemail. It's without without a

708
00:56:04,679 --> 00:56:07,719
flight path and someone taking the time
to make a drawing. I don't think

709
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:12,000
it's there. I don't think it's
enough. You've got to have something on

710
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:15,400
paper that you can fall back on. A case could be true, but

711
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:20,639
without a drawing, without an illustration, without someone taking the time. A

712
00:56:20,639 --> 00:56:23,760
lot of these drawings you can tell
someone took the time, They brought out

713
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:29,840
their straight edge, they marked off
the landmarks, they put down where it

714
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,480
was. It's adds so much more
to the credibility in the case when you

715
00:56:32,519 --> 00:56:36,559
see that, rather than just someone
that calls in and makes a report.

716
00:56:37,519 --> 00:56:40,119
Right. I've talked with Peter Javinport
and he basically says, you know,

717
00:56:40,159 --> 00:56:45,559
he gets tons of calls all the
time, right, but he's saying,

718
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:49,719
well, you know, you've got
to take the time and fill out the

719
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,599
report if you want, you know, you want to report this, you

720
00:56:52,639 --> 00:56:55,159
have to take the time, and
it weeds out, unfortunately, weeds out

721
00:56:55,199 --> 00:56:59,239
a lot of people that don't want
to take the time. And that's kind

722
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:04,760
of a it's kind of curious that
people wouldn't move forward and spend the time

723
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,960
to report it if they've gotten that
far that they've called exactly. Yeah.

724
00:57:09,679 --> 00:57:16,079
So while you just mentioned about the
drawings I mentioned earlier class fun over in

725
00:57:16,119 --> 00:57:22,239
the suite, he mentioned to me
that he and his wife had a UFO

726
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:27,159
sighting and on their way home from
a party at late to night or something

727
00:57:27,199 --> 00:57:32,000
like that, he said to her
in the car, don't talk about it.

728
00:57:32,519 --> 00:57:35,920
And they got home and they each
went in a separate room and wrote

729
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,679
down exactly what they saw. I
think that was great advice. I mean

730
00:57:38,719 --> 00:57:44,360
that that's great advice for anyone.
Quarantine the witnesses. Yes, quarantine and

731
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:49,360
and do your drawing and do your
writing right then, immediately afterward, because

732
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,480
I mean, that's the advice I
would give anyone if they had a sighting,

733
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,480
is to write everything down immediately afterwards
before your you know why, your

734
00:57:55,480 --> 00:58:02,320
memories really fresh and sharp on what
just happened. That's my advice anyway.

735
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:07,519
And drawing, why not, even
if you're a terrible drawer, like you've

736
00:58:07,519 --> 00:58:12,079
actually seen some of those drawings that
are pretty bad. But that's still reference.

737
00:58:12,159 --> 00:58:15,360
It's reference to go by, that's
right, and we can clean it

738
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,519
up from there. We can work
from a rough pencil sketch. That's fine.

739
00:58:17,559 --> 00:58:21,239
That's what we do here. You
know, good for that. So,

740
00:58:21,719 --> 00:58:24,960
yeah, where do you want to
move next? Foray case, we're

741
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:30,199
going to move to September tenth,
nineteen seventy six, Kaluza, California.

742
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:37,239
Okay, you got it. Okay, So now this is another well documented

743
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:42,800
site. Q FOS has a report
on it. Newspapers picked up on this

744
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,000
as well. All right, so
here's the setting. It's around eleven thirty

745
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:52,119
pm. Primary eye witnesses watching TV. All of a sudden, the TV

746
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,920
conks out. This is Kaluza,
California. TV conks out, air conditioning

747
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,000
conks out. He's still in his
shorts at this time, so he walks

748
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:05,519
out of his mobile home to the
back unit where the circuit breaker box is,

749
00:59:05,599 --> 00:59:08,079
thinking that one of the circuit breakers
is blown, and all of a

750
00:59:08,119 --> 00:59:15,000
sudden, he notices that the hair
on his arms the hair on his chest,

751
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:20,719
the hair on his head starts standing
up on end. The entire localized

752
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,800
area is engulfed in this static electrical
field. So he looks up and he

753
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:30,679
sees one hundred and fifty foot diameter
dish shape craft hovering above him. This

754
00:59:30,719 --> 00:59:36,239
thing, try to describe it.
It has this gun metal aluminum polished silver

755
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,639
exterior. On the top was a
dome, But Martin, it's not your

756
00:59:39,639 --> 00:59:45,559
standard dome. It looks like a
lemon juicer or an orange juicer, something

757
00:59:45,599 --> 00:59:49,920
like that. It has a concave
rib section as it goes around the outer

758
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,199
circumference of the dome. That's what
the dome looked like. Now on the

759
00:59:52,239 --> 00:59:58,599
bottom of this craft, he said, it had these dangling six conduit pipes

760
00:59:58,639 --> 01:00:02,199
that had freight edges, and then
he said that there were two pronglike devices

761
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,599
on either side of the craft.
Now, while this is going on,

762
01:00:06,639 --> 01:00:09,519
there was a bright beaming spotlight coming
down to the bottom. But he also

763
01:00:09,719 --> 01:00:15,719
saw, Martin, two other craft
identical to the first one, that were

764
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:19,280
half the diameter of the one that
he was looking at, and they were

765
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:23,880
hovering over the nearby five hundred thousand
volt power lines, shining lights down to

766
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:29,599
the power lines, like their sucking
power off the power lines, turning them

767
01:00:29,679 --> 01:00:34,000
cherry red in color. So that
was going on concurrently as his siding.

768
01:00:34,039 --> 01:00:39,199
Now, next thing that happened is
these strange dangling conduit pipes retracted into the

769
01:00:39,199 --> 01:00:45,559
bottom of the craft. When that
happened, those two pronglike devices they retracted

770
01:00:45,679 --> 01:00:50,960
as well, but only nine into
the craft, showing the remaining ten percent.

771
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,559
When that happened, there was a
hatch that opened on either side of

772
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:58,840
the craft, and these goose neck
lights popped out, shining down below.

773
01:00:59,679 --> 01:01:04,679
So at this point, he startled, he's shaken. He runs back into

774
01:01:04,719 --> 01:01:09,239
the mobile home. He wakes up
his wife and two children that were sleeping,

775
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:14,320
and they kind of go to the
far end of the room there where

776
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:19,239
there's a window, so he draws
the blinds open, and he sees the

777
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:23,760
two smaller craft kind of out into
the backyard. They're still sucking up power

778
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:30,239
from the five hundred thousand bolt power
lines, and then the large craft kind

779
01:01:30,239 --> 01:01:34,280
of like goes back in between the
two. And then what happened next is

780
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,000
really interesting. This large craft that's
one hundred and fifty feet in diameter,

781
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:43,960
it goes from a dead stand still
to twenty four nautical miles away to the

782
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:47,440
rolling hills in the background, stays
there for about two seconds, and then

783
01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:52,800
zips back all within four seconds total
with no sonic boom whatsoever. And this

784
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:57,880
is all back in nineteen seventy six. This is going on. So at

785
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,599
this point, the primary eye witness, his name is Pat. He is

786
01:02:01,639 --> 01:02:05,280
said, you know what we're done. We're out of here. So he

787
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:08,559
gathers up his family. He's in
his shorts, so he pulls on a

788
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:13,679
junkie pair of jeans. They all
jump into the pickup truck. He puts

789
01:02:13,719 --> 01:02:16,840
the pickup truck in a drive.
He goes out of the garage, and

790
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:23,119
now he's racing down the blacktop road
going ninety miles an hour to get away

791
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:29,440
from this large craft that's approaching the
pickup truck. This thing starts following them

792
01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:32,719
down the road, goes off to
the left of the pickup truck above the

793
01:02:32,719 --> 01:02:37,880
truck now on the right hand side, then goes back to the left hand

794
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:43,280
side. He eventually goes about two
miles down the road to his neighbor's house,

795
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,199
screeches the brakes, pulls to a
stop, piles out of the pickup

796
01:02:47,239 --> 01:02:52,880
truck starts banging on the door,
the neighbor's door, and then two additional

797
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:58,039
neighbors come out. So you've got
the primary eye witness, You've got his

798
01:02:58,119 --> 01:03:02,360
wife, you've got the two children. So that's four plus the two additional

799
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:09,000
witnesses, so that's six. All
six eyewitnesses watch this large craft depart the

800
01:03:09,119 --> 01:03:14,079
area, and so essentially, in
a nutshell, that's the kalusive California case.

801
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:20,159
Wow, this one, I would
say, you wouldn't want to write

802
01:03:20,199 --> 01:03:23,159
off the bat say it's our own
technology, and I'll tell you that for

803
01:03:23,199 --> 01:03:27,480
a couple of reasons, I would
say this one in particular. First of

804
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,280
all, why would it chase a
vehicle? Second of all, it would

805
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:36,159
need to take a power source,
you know, I mean that would be

806
01:03:37,559 --> 01:03:42,679
that just wouldn't make sense. But
that that's fascinating. Are you aware of

807
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:47,119
a you know, I've heard of
UFOs seen sucking up water out of a

808
01:03:47,199 --> 01:03:52,079
lake or something like that, but
sure, but never from a power line.

809
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:57,039
There's a couple other cases where we've
seen, Now we don't know exactly,

810
01:03:57,079 --> 01:04:00,880
we think it's pulling power offer who
knows for sure, But in the

811
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:05,679
report it specifically states that the power
lines were turning cherry red in color.

812
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:12,199
I mean absolutely so. It is
by far a very powerful CE two case.

813
01:04:12,599 --> 01:04:15,440
At the very minimum, it's a
very powerful CE two case. Yeah,

814
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:20,440
and his power went out. Did
other people report that the area blacked

815
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,519
out? The area, the whole
area, they're blacked out? And that's

816
01:04:24,599 --> 01:04:28,159
kind of talked about in close encounters, so that that checks out, you

817
01:04:28,199 --> 01:04:31,679
know? Yeah, what did Stephen
really know? Who knows? But yeah,

818
01:04:31,719 --> 01:04:36,000
I know that there was a lot
of bits and pieces of cases,

819
01:04:36,079 --> 01:04:41,400
you know, put in close encounters
exactly exactly, and this could have been

820
01:04:41,559 --> 01:04:45,400
one of them. This is really
amazing and I'm wondering how I've not never

821
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:50,800
heard of this case before and it's
so incredible. Yep, it's in It's

822
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:56,199
in the q FOS archives for sure. And newspapers picked it up as well.

823
01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:00,360
Do you know if the witnesses ever
talked about this? Are you know,

824
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:04,599
the the gentleman that he jumped in
the pickup truck as he talked about

825
01:05:04,599 --> 01:05:09,360
this publicly? Uh? Yeah,
it was. It was publishing the newspapers.

826
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:13,480
In fact, I'll I'll pull up
the uh here's the actual clipping.

827
01:05:13,559 --> 01:05:17,039
It's son Harald Kaloosa, California.
May twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine.

828
01:05:17,519 --> 01:05:21,599
There's the actual newspaper clipping. Now
that's the craft right there. Yeah,

829
01:05:21,639 --> 01:05:26,920
you can see the sketch and that's
what he saw. And they were terrified.

830
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:32,239
They were absolutely terrified. That's a
terrifying looking craft. Yeah. Again,

831
01:05:32,519 --> 01:05:36,960
for those listening, I will post
a video up. I'm going to

832
01:05:38,039 --> 01:05:41,400
try to do the slideshow in order
so you'd be able to see and fall

833
01:05:41,519 --> 01:05:44,440
along, um, you know,
and just at least see what some of

834
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:49,039
these craft look like. Um.
And that that is just such a bizarre

835
01:05:49,079 --> 01:05:57,519
thing about the conduits and and then
them all retracting and then for it to

836
01:05:57,599 --> 01:06:01,159
take off and to come back.
That's now. It made no sonic boom

837
01:06:01,159 --> 01:06:05,360
when it did that, So we're
talking like a dead standstill to twenty four

838
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:10,719
miles away in less than two seconds
and then repeated in less than two seconds

839
01:06:10,719 --> 01:06:15,920
with no sonic boom. All back
in nineteen seventy six. Did this actually

840
01:06:15,559 --> 01:06:21,199
come fairly close to him as well? It was in his backyard? Yeah,

841
01:06:21,199 --> 01:06:25,159
Well when he when he originally saw
it, he was maybe one hundred

842
01:06:25,159 --> 01:06:28,119
and fifty feet away from it.
It was hovering above him, so it

843
01:06:28,199 --> 01:06:32,880
was very close range. When the
thing came back. Did he see when

844
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,920
it left and came back, did
he see any type of disturbance at all

845
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,639
on the ground, Did he mention
anything like it was too far away at

846
01:06:39,679 --> 01:06:43,400
that But that was way in his
backyard at that point, and then from

847
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:45,199
that point forward, he was in
a state of panic. So I don't

848
01:06:45,199 --> 01:06:49,159
think he was concerned with what the
exterior looked like. Then. He was

849
01:06:49,199 --> 01:06:53,400
just concerned with getting his family piled
in the truck and they were getting out

850
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:57,679
of there. And then in the
report it talks about they actually said they

851
01:06:57,679 --> 01:07:00,119
were going ninety miles an hour down
the road to get away from this thing,

852
01:07:00,159 --> 01:07:03,760
and it was chasing their truck,
going above the cab of the truck

853
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,559
to one side and then flipping back
over to the other side. This went

854
01:07:06,639 --> 01:07:11,880
on two or three times until he
got to the neighbor's house and that's where

855
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:14,679
it kind of ended there. But
he was in a state of panics.

856
01:07:14,679 --> 01:07:19,159
So yeah, I can see why. That's a horrifying situation and a real

857
01:07:19,199 --> 01:07:24,360
amazing one. Wow, that's a
great one. Yeah, all right,

858
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,920
what do you want to do?
What would you all right, we're moving

859
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:30,920
on to February third, nineteen eighty
three, Mobile, Alabama. Oh this

860
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:35,199
one I love. Yeah, Yeah, that's exactly correct. You. I've

861
01:07:35,239 --> 01:07:41,440
heard of this one. I remember
looking into it. I think there's been

862
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:46,159
someone talked about this or something that
maybe possibly at a conference or something that

863
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:51,400
was very familiar. This was talk. This was written up in Nightcaps Report.

864
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:55,880
I've got the Nightcap Report here,
so just again. February third,

865
01:07:55,960 --> 01:08:01,119
nineteen eighty three, Mobile, Alabama. The primary eyewitness head just finished a

866
01:08:01,239 --> 01:08:05,159
dinner engagement. She was driving home. She had about ninety minutes to go

867
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:11,360
far away, and all of a
sudden, she hears this booming noise.

868
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:15,720
Her car starts shaking. She pulls
off to the side of the road.

869
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,720
She stops the vehicle. She gets
out of the car. She looks under

870
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:24,920
her vehicle, thinking the transmission came
out or something. Everything seemed to be

871
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:28,520
okay there, so she gets back
in the car. She drives another half

872
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,000
mile forward on the road, kind
of makes a little turn, and then

873
01:08:31,119 --> 01:08:35,560
off to the right there's a clearing
and she sees this craft in front of

874
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:41,920
her. It's dark in color.
She described it. The report states that

875
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:45,479
this thing was about two hundred and
seventy six feet in length. It was

876
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:49,640
eighty feet tall as it tapered nearer
the back. It kind of tapered and

877
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:55,399
tiered up like a wedding cake.
And the top section at the very top

878
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:59,479
will start at the top. Here
it had a transparent dome section with a

879
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,880
cutout window, and inside this cutout
window, it was lit from inside.

880
01:09:03,239 --> 01:09:08,640
And she said there there was these
humanoid looking beings that had a little bit

881
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:13,359
larger heads. They were wearing these
one piece tight fitting flight suits, very

882
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:16,800
tight fitting. They were all white
in color. She said that the atmosphere

883
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:25,159
they were in looked antiseptically sterile.
And she said that just below that section

884
01:09:25,239 --> 01:09:29,520
there was another transparent section. Below
that, there were these port holes that

885
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:33,159
varied in diameter. Below the port
holes, there were these six foot by

886
01:09:33,199 --> 01:09:39,840
six foot boxes. Protruding out of
these boxes were these cylindrical devices that looked

887
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:43,800
like cannons to her. She described
them as weaponry. Don't know if that's

888
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:46,880
what it was, but she definitely
described that. Now, below these cylinders,

889
01:09:48,119 --> 01:09:53,560
she said that she could see a
door closing from right to left and

890
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:58,079
it had ribs on it. On
the inside of this section, she said

891
01:09:58,079 --> 01:10:02,359
that would looked like a quote unquote
Martin a asphalt road, black asphalt road.

892
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:08,399
And on the left wall of this
she said that she could see what

893
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:13,199
she termed pipes, tubes, cylinders. And I've seen this, Martin,

894
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,760
multiple times. Now, I've got
at least fourteen separate cases within the files

895
01:10:17,239 --> 01:10:20,960
where eyewitnesses are describing these pipes.
Great job, great job. You went

896
01:10:21,039 --> 01:10:25,960
right to the next one. That
was great. They're describing pipes and cylinders

897
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:30,359
and tubes. A lot of these
eyewitnesses say that these things look like the

898
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:34,479
inside of a Midas muffler shop.
They described this. Now, below this

899
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:41,760
asphalt road, there was two gondolas
with the same five foot ten type fitting

900
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:45,319
flight suit beings that were walking around
oblivious to her. Below so two of

901
01:10:45,359 --> 01:10:50,199
these gondolas, and then on the
upper section of these transparent gondolas there was

902
01:10:50,199 --> 01:10:57,680
what described as being twenty four inch
by twenty four inch highly polished reflective mirrors

903
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:01,279
that were configured in across configuration.
Now, while all this is going on,

904
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:05,560
she's walking up to this craft and
she could see through the quote unquote

905
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:13,479
portholes, and Martin, she says
that the entire exterior of this craft was

906
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:18,680
put together with fasteners or rivets.
She described and looking through these portholes,

907
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:21,680
she said, it looked like a
shipping yard or a dry dock. She

908
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:28,840
could see bulkheads and very high beams
like industrial. That was the interior this

909
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:32,359
craft. Now, this thing departed
at a slow writer speed from her location,

910
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:40,000
so that's essentially the sighting. Wow. Yeah, this one is a

911
01:11:40,039 --> 01:11:47,159
real good one. And as far
as did they ever, they never acknowledged

912
01:11:47,239 --> 01:11:53,800
or never you know, saw that
she was looking below. No, she

913
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:58,119
said that they were oblivious to her. And what about her? I mean,

914
01:11:58,239 --> 01:12:00,319
was she not afraid? Nope,
she wasn't afraid. Nope. She

915
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:04,159
was hoping it would come closer.
She looked through the portholes that were near

916
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:09,960
her location because she could see through
the craft. She said that she could

917
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:14,399
see one end of the craft through
to the other, and inside it looked

918
01:12:14,399 --> 01:12:17,960
like it's like you're building a nineteen
forty two vintage World War Two battleship.

919
01:12:18,319 --> 01:12:23,199
It had bulkheads, it had cross
teams, it had girders, you know,

920
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:28,840
very mechanical structure on the interior.
Any other witnesses, No, she

921
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:31,560
was the only one. Yeah,
I'm trying to remember who brought this up

922
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:38,800
At a conference I was at on
this particular one. But I love this

923
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,600
one. And as soon as I
saw the picture when you send me the

924
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:48,680
pictures, I remembered hearing about it
and seeing seeing this and chest it's just

925
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:55,119
a shame that it was she she
wasn't able to, you know, photograph

926
01:12:55,199 --> 01:12:58,000
it somehow it'd be great. Yeah, and a credit goes to John McNeil

927
01:12:58,039 --> 01:13:02,479
for this one. But that we're
seeing a pattern recognition again here. So

928
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:06,720
you've got the cross beams, you've
got the rivets, you've got the pipes

929
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:12,640
and cylinders. So that's being repeated
in these multiple cases from different locations,

930
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:16,199
different timeframes. Yeah. And you
know, some people have seen these craft

931
01:13:16,239 --> 01:13:20,760
and they say that they see absolutely
no seams of any kind. That wasn't

932
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:25,359
the case here. Yeah, I
love it. With the rivets and everything

933
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:29,439
looks like, you know, like
an old battleship or something. That's right,

934
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:32,439
that's right, and yeah, and
it's hard to believe something like this

935
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:38,279
can just float there and then it
is hard to believe. Yes, yeah,

936
01:13:38,359 --> 01:13:41,000
yeah, that's a great one.
What are your thoughts on this one?

937
01:13:41,039 --> 01:13:45,079
What you know if again I'm asking
you to speculate, sure, well,

938
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:49,840
when you when you look at the
eyewitness reports, when they describe what

939
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:54,560
the underside of these vehicles look like. And we're going to talk about another

940
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:58,239
one of these here. I'm just
going by what the eyewitnesses described, you

941
01:13:58,239 --> 01:14:00,600
know, when you talk about the
rivets, the bulkheads, the fact that

942
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:05,399
it has lit porthole windows, the
pipes, and the cylinders. A lot

943
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:13,600
of times there was this electrical humming
noise. Put that together, Martin,

944
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:17,920
it looks like we're dealing with a
terrestrial technology here. Not maybe it's something

945
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:25,439
from a civilization long since the path. That's possible, But it just keeps

946
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:30,279
on coming up again and again.
These same repeating patterns keep on popping up

947
01:14:30,319 --> 01:14:36,000
in multiple cases. Wow. Wow, I think that's fascinating that she wasn't

948
01:14:36,079 --> 01:14:40,720
scared at all. She wasn't Nope, she walked up even closer to it.

949
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:45,359
Yeah. I wonder if she had
a flashlight and flashdate, it would

950
01:14:45,359 --> 01:14:47,920
be a little different. It'd be
great to see a photo of this thing.

951
01:14:48,079 --> 01:14:50,560
Yes, Yeah, wouldn't it be? Wow? Yeah, that's a

952
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:55,560
great case. Great case. All
right, So let's let's move on to

953
01:14:55,680 --> 01:15:00,840
the So the next thing on to
nineteen ninety four buckst in England. All

954
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:05,039
right, that's this one here,
yep, okay, So we don't have

955
01:15:05,079 --> 01:15:09,680
the exact month. The newspaper clipping
only gave the year, so I know

956
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:14,079
it was nineteen ninety four. I
know that that is the correct location Buxton.

957
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:18,319
So the report indicates that this person
was driving down the roads about five

958
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:24,279
thirty in the morning. I guess
he's going to work and he sees these

959
01:15:24,319 --> 01:15:30,159
beaming spotlights approach his vehicle. He
goes around a turn to kind of skirt

960
01:15:30,239 --> 01:15:34,119
the edge of a bridge, and
then what he sees next is this sixty

961
01:15:34,119 --> 01:15:38,680
foot long elliptical shape craft with a
notch cut out of the back of it.

962
01:15:39,119 --> 01:15:43,760
There are two beaming spotlights in front, beaming ahead. He stops the

963
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:46,920
car. It's hovering about fifty feet
above his vehicle. He rolls down the

964
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,239
window so he'll be on the right
side because it's England, so he's on

965
01:15:50,279 --> 01:15:55,479
the right side. He's looking up
at this craft and he says that the

966
01:15:55,520 --> 01:16:01,840
bottom of the craft was completely comprised
of pipes in cylinders, in tubes.

967
01:16:02,279 --> 01:16:08,159
It looked like silencers. And then
this thing flew away at a kind of

968
01:16:08,159 --> 01:16:12,720
a medium rate of speed. That's
essentially the sighting in a nutshell, But

969
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:16,520
again the same type report. Again, these pipes and cylinders, this notch

970
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:19,279
cut out of the back. It
looked like a flying horse shoe in a

971
01:16:19,359 --> 01:16:25,079
nutshell. That's essentially this case.
Yeah, and you don't hear a lot

972
01:16:25,119 --> 01:16:29,720
of I've talked about this. You
know, there's not a ton of cases

973
01:16:30,319 --> 01:16:35,960
in Britain. In England, you
know, mostly because of the weather there.

974
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:40,479
I mean, that's what I've been
told actually by people that live there.

975
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:44,479
They say they don't have a high
amount of cases. This looks like

976
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:47,319
you know, the illustration anyway,
like it was a clear night, and

977
01:16:47,399 --> 01:16:53,159
so they actually saw this. There
was one one eyewitness that saw this,

978
01:16:53,319 --> 01:16:57,560
but the report says that there was
a virtual air show going on, not

979
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:01,199
a real airshow, but a show
of these things. These were reported multiple

980
01:17:01,239 --> 01:17:05,680
times at that time in that particular
area. So he wasn't the only one

981
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:10,960
apparently who saw that. And for
some reason in ninety four there was a

982
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:15,319
flap of these craft in England at
the time. Wow, And that's that's

983
01:17:15,399 --> 01:17:19,760
kind of curious there also, why
there are flaps, you know, why

984
01:17:20,039 --> 01:17:28,279
the why if there is a technology
that's actually visiting us from somewhere and I'm

985
01:17:28,319 --> 01:17:32,479
not talking about our own technology,
but just say they're extra trust or whatever

986
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:41,039
they are. It's really weird that
they concentrate themselves in one area if they

987
01:17:41,039 --> 01:17:45,039
can travel so fast exactly. Yes, yeah, what do you think that's

988
01:17:45,039 --> 01:17:47,760
about? If you had to get
doing a test flight for some reason at

989
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:53,399
that area. Don't know for sure, but they definitely talk about how there

990
01:17:53,399 --> 01:17:58,880
were multiple sightings in that particular area, so everything seemed to be focused just

991
01:17:59,039 --> 01:18:01,399
during that time frame. Yeah,
and then you have the Belgian wave.

992
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:05,439
You know, that was all you
know, seen over and over again in

993
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:11,520
that one particular area. I never
really get that. The hotspots why,

994
01:18:12,199 --> 01:18:15,640
you know, if it's if it's
not something like you said, we're testing

995
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:19,000
or whatever. Right, and so
I see the next one is two thousand

996
01:18:19,039 --> 01:18:23,279
and one. Yep, let's go
to two thousand and one. Now,

997
01:18:23,279 --> 01:18:27,119
in this case, Martin, I
actually interviewed the primary eyewitness, so I

998
01:18:27,159 --> 01:18:30,239
got it directly from him. It's
April two thousand and one. Don't have

999
01:18:30,399 --> 01:18:34,319
the exact date in April, but
two thousand and one O'Hare airport. There

1000
01:18:34,319 --> 01:18:40,399
are four eyewitnesses. They were working
at a location at the airport, something

1001
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:44,359
called the Ozark Hangar. It had
just this is early in the morning.

1002
01:18:45,399 --> 01:18:47,920
It had just rained, so the
tarmac was wet. Where they were working

1003
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:53,520
was wet, and all four witnesses. Now, in this illustration it looks

1004
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:56,319
more like a cigar shape craft,
but if you have a top view looking

1005
01:18:56,359 --> 01:19:01,079
down, it's more of a complete
flying saucer. So this thing flew by,

1006
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:05,279
and you know what they described as
fifty feet in diameter. It had

1007
01:19:05,319 --> 01:19:11,800
a series of twelve elongated porthole windows
wrapping around the outer circumference. He said

1008
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:16,600
that there was a bubble transparent canopy
up front that was back lit from inside.

1009
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:20,760
It had had kind of a circular
port hole opening, but really not

1010
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:25,239
an opening at the top. But
then, he said, as it flew

1011
01:19:25,279 --> 01:19:29,720
by, made a forty five degree
angle, then continued out on its flight

1012
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:35,720
path, he said that he saw
these dangling octopus tentacles off the back end

1013
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:40,319
of this thing. At the end
of these tentacles there was what looked like

1014
01:19:40,359 --> 01:19:45,560
a twelve inch diameter ball or sphere, and these things were moving around like

1015
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:48,199
they were alive. He kept on
saying that the thing looked like it was

1016
01:19:48,319 --> 01:19:53,600
living. Now, while all this
is going on, all four eyewitnesses heard

1017
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:59,159
this low rumbling in the background.
This was a seven four seven on takeoff

1018
01:19:59,279 --> 01:20:03,960
role at O'Hare Airport. This craft
flew right over the active runway within a

1019
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:08,560
matter of seconds the seven four or
seven took off. So if this happened

1020
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:12,840
just prior to, there would have
been a mid air collision. So just

1021
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:15,560
one point I'm making here though,
is that here again we see these spires

1022
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,760
with these balls at the end of
them. This is going. I've got

1023
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:25,640
a late twelve separate cases of these
as well. Amazing and the fact that

1024
01:20:26,239 --> 01:20:30,399
you know this happened at O'Hare right, you know, five years before the

1025
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:35,800
famed Gate Sea seventeen. I think
it is siding in two thousand and six.

1026
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:43,039
And you know, it's amazing to
two sightings at one airport, it's

1027
01:20:43,119 --> 01:20:46,520
right wow. And so there were
only four witnesses. Four witnesses saw it,

1028
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:49,800
yes, and no one knows if
this actually showed up on the radar,

1029
01:20:50,159 --> 01:20:53,680
don't know, don't know. I
don't know if there's anything from the

1030
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:58,479
tower, the tower or anything.
But there there, we're literally talking about

1031
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:01,720
seconds away from a mirror elation because
this thing perhaps could have hit it,

1032
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:05,520
we don't know for sure. But
he said that he heard the rumbling of

1033
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:10,680
the seven four seven in the background
and then this thing took off so very

1034
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:17,119
close proximity. Yeah, you know, other people have reported that something looked

1035
01:21:17,119 --> 01:21:23,039
alive as well. You know,
you hear about the jellyfish type, you

1036
01:21:23,079 --> 01:21:29,600
know, UFOs and things like that, and that's just such another bizarre side

1037
01:21:30,119 --> 01:21:36,119
story on what people have reported.
So they were like driving these Yeah,

1038
01:21:36,159 --> 01:21:41,680
it's a similar configuration to the Temple, Oklahoma case of sixty six where it

1039
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:45,800
had the spire as well. So
that's being repeated in this two thousand and

1040
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:53,159
one case. Wow, that's really
interesting. And yeah, I'm surprised that.

1041
01:21:54,079 --> 01:21:57,359
And I don't know if you know
this or not, but can someone

1042
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:02,000
get you know, radar information through
the freedom of information? I think you

1043
01:22:02,039 --> 01:22:05,920
can. I think you can.
I wonder if anyone's ever going to try

1044
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:11,840
to look into getting that that date. Oh, they don't know exactly the

1045
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:15,840
exact date. That's a problem.
Yep. All he could remember is April

1046
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:18,359
time frame, two thousand and one, early in the morning. I guess

1047
01:22:18,399 --> 01:22:21,119
you could track it by the weather. If you could find out what the

1048
01:22:21,159 --> 01:22:27,039
weather was on that morning, it'd
be possible. It wouldn't be impossible,

1049
01:22:27,079 --> 01:22:30,000
but it could be done. Probably
you'd have to do some digging. I

1050
01:22:30,119 --> 01:22:34,800
know that when you're applying for freedom
of information, you have to be very

1051
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:40,239
exact about everything. So if you
have something like can I have this date

1052
01:22:40,279 --> 01:22:43,800
to that date, they wouldn't even
respond to you. Yeah, that's what

1053
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:47,840
I understand anyway. Wow, Okay, so now we have the two thousand

1054
01:22:48,239 --> 01:22:54,199
YEP twelve. Let's go there,
all right. Okay, so credit goes

1055
01:22:54,279 --> 01:22:58,720
to David Marler for giving me this
case, So I got to give him

1056
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:02,119
credit. Now the report, it's
a four page report. It includes a

1057
01:23:02,199 --> 01:23:09,000
very rough original sketch which I redraw, and then Tom Bogan did this illustration.

1058
01:23:10,199 --> 01:23:14,079
So now this is a this case
happened multiple times. Now, the

1059
01:23:14,119 --> 01:23:18,039
primary eyewitness stated that he saw this
triangular shape craft. It was about one

1060
01:23:18,079 --> 01:23:21,640
hundred and sixty feet across. It
had rounded corners, so you've got a

1061
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:28,880
triangle with rounded corners. It harbored
over the little Putting River area that's near

1062
01:23:29,279 --> 01:23:32,119
Harbard, Oregon. That's the vicinity
of this thing where this took place.

1063
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:39,039
And what he stated happened is there
was about a four foot to five foot

1064
01:23:39,119 --> 01:23:44,800
diameter clear transparent tube that retracted from
the bottom of this craft. It started

1065
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:50,119
sucking up water, and then immediately
afterwards, water started spraying down from the

1066
01:23:50,239 --> 01:23:56,479
edges of that to back into the
river. And then these three relief valves

1067
01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:00,680
popped out and they were spraying water
as well concurrently as the tube was.

1068
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:05,239
Now, while all this is going
on, there were three lights going around

1069
01:24:05,279 --> 01:24:12,199
the outer portion of this craft.
He said that there was cutout windows running

1070
01:24:12,199 --> 01:24:15,840
along the forward section of it,
with a light going back and forth.

1071
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:19,840
He also said there was kind of
a slope dome with curved windows on top

1072
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:23,760
that he could see as well.
But while all this is going on,

1073
01:24:24,199 --> 01:24:29,079
he said that the sound this thing
was making was like a kerchunk ker chunk

1074
01:24:29,279 --> 01:24:34,680
of a washing machine. And this
thing would repeat the cycle multiple times until

1075
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:39,760
it got done with itself whatever it
was doing, pulling up the water in

1076
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:44,279
tanks or something, and once it
was finished, that tube on the bottom

1077
01:24:44,279 --> 01:24:47,680
would retract in the bottom of the
craft, these relief voules would retract up

1078
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:50,560
and then this thing would depart.
Now, on one of these sightings,

1079
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:57,199
it was there for about fifteen minutes, So the primary eyewitness went over to

1080
01:24:57,279 --> 01:25:00,880
the sheriff's department. He actually got
the sheriff to come with and the sheriff

1081
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:05,760
thought too, So it's a multiple
witness sighting for this particular case. Wow,

1082
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:11,000
has the sheriff ever spoken about this, not to my knowledge, but

1083
01:25:11,279 --> 01:25:15,159
he's aware of it. He's definitely
aware of it. The report didn't indicate

1084
01:25:15,279 --> 01:25:18,600
anything that he stated, but he
did see it. He did see it.

1085
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:23,119
So maybe there's a police report.
Not sure it doesn't talk about him

1086
01:25:23,159 --> 01:25:27,479
the report, but at the very
least there's two eye witnesses that sought and

1087
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:31,960
one eyewitness claims that it happened on
multiple occasions. Yeah. My friend Lee

1088
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:39,279
Spiegel does his own show called Edge
of Reality. It's on Thursday nights on

1089
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:45,920
KGr A radio, and there's archives, and I suggest to the listener out

1090
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:50,600
there to check out last week's archive
when he had Dave Marlaurn because he also

1091
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:56,960
has the police officer that was with
him when he had his nineteen seventy five

1092
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:01,880
triangle sighting. The witnessed it together. So check out that episode. It's

1093
01:26:02,199 --> 01:26:05,640
it's fascinating. It's a good,
it's a good, okay, okay show.

1094
01:26:06,119 --> 01:26:12,640
Um, So this happened in two
thousand and twelve. I have heard

1095
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:15,840
a number of cases where this type
of thing happens. Not in this type

1096
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:21,119
of detail. But I m where
people have reported over lakes that they've actually

1097
01:26:21,159 --> 01:26:29,680
seen water being drawn up into these
craft, and that would make me think

1098
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:31,960
that also, this is not our
own technology. Why would we have that

1099
01:26:32,039 --> 01:26:39,520
unless we're experimenting with you know,
fire control, right, But it doesn't

1100
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:43,159
seem to me, this doesn't seem
like something that would be our technology.

1101
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:47,319
Well, within the Gray Barker collection
in Clarksburg, West Virginia, they have

1102
01:26:47,399 --> 01:26:54,479
a whole section of the autobinder reports
and there are very similar reports of these

1103
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:58,720
water pumper UFOs in that collection as
well. So that's where you can track

1104
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:04,039
the references for those. Well,
yeah, and just the lights moving around

1105
01:27:04,039 --> 01:27:06,720
you're saying they're like orbs? Is
that what you they were? They were

1106
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:11,600
lit orbs and when it was done
with whatever is doing, they merged with

1107
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,760
the craft and then the whole thing
took off. I love this one.

1108
01:27:16,039 --> 01:27:20,520
Wow, this is really great.
So now let's go on to um,

1109
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:25,079
you're going to have to share your
screen again, sure, and let's go

1110
01:27:25,159 --> 01:27:30,239
on to some of the other Yeah. Screen, Okay, so let's see

1111
01:27:30,399 --> 01:27:35,600
here, Um when he does that
work? Not yet, but I'll keep

1112
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:40,079
an eye out for it, but
um, it should pop up soon.

1113
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:45,760
Just just take your time and do
that, okay, And have you researched

1114
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:47,079
while we're doing that and you're trying
to figure out I'm going to ask you

1115
01:27:47,119 --> 01:27:53,119
to do two things at once.
Here, have you besides Koufos, have

1116
01:27:53,239 --> 01:27:57,600
you done some further research? You
did bring up some you know, a

1117
01:27:57,680 --> 01:28:01,239
few other places like Project Bookcase and
stuff like that. Yeah. I've spent

1118
01:28:01,359 --> 01:28:08,279
a lot of time in Mufine Archives
and all the Leonard Stringfield collections. I've

1119
01:28:08,319 --> 01:28:14,760
got the entire Nightcap collection, basically
resource centers all around the country. Gray

1120
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:18,920
Barker UFO Collection Clarksburg, West Virginia. They have an entire floor dedicated to

1121
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:26,680
material. There's about twelve i'd say
twelve cabinets there. So that's a resource

1122
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:30,399
um. But again, a lot
of these collections they get thrown out.

1123
01:28:30,279 --> 01:28:34,239
They get thrown out and so you
it's all it's gone to history now.

1124
01:28:34,359 --> 01:28:38,640
So yeah, that happens. That's
why, you know, I mean,

1125
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:41,800
things can happen with the fire,
and you know, that's why it's always

1126
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:45,920
really great when they get into an
institution like the McDonald you know collection for

1127
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:50,000
one correct, Yeah, I see
you. So you're having a little trouble

1128
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:55,359
sharing your screen. All right,
So let's see I've got I've got the

1129
01:28:55,359 --> 01:28:58,960
Falcon Lake case pulled up right now. Oh I love that one. You

1130
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:01,840
can't see that yet right now,
I'm not seeing it. Can't see that.

1131
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:08,800
Okay, So let's see I'm here
share. So there it goes.

1132
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:12,800
How about now I got it?
Okay? Good, okay, all right,

1133
01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:15,840
okay, So let's move on to
this one. This is, as

1134
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:18,800
you know, Martin, this is
a very famous case. This is Falcon

1135
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:24,119
Lake, Canada, May nineteenth,
nineteen sixty seven. Stephen Mecalek is the

1136
01:29:24,159 --> 01:29:29,159
primary eye witness. Bottom line is
is he was a rockhound. He was

1137
01:29:29,239 --> 01:29:32,199
collecting gems and minerals. So he
had on his plaid shirt, he had

1138
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:39,159
leather gloves on. He actually had
a welder's helmet on as well. Just

1139
01:29:39,319 --> 01:29:43,920
prospecting, looking around. So in
the background he hears this commercial commotion from

1140
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:48,760
some birds. He looks up and
he sees two this shipcraft that are about

1141
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:53,119
forty feet in diameter. One of
them departs, the other one the lands

1142
01:29:53,119 --> 01:29:57,319
about one hundred and fifty feet from
his location, so he walks over to

1143
01:29:57,359 --> 01:30:02,439
it. It is this essentially seamless
craft about forty feet in diameter. It

1144
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:08,039
has an upper dome. Around the
outer circumference of the upper dome, there's

1145
01:30:08,079 --> 01:30:14,399
these elongated slot cutouts within there.
So he's walking up to the craft and

1146
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:21,159
all of a sudden, this hatch
opens up and this violent, violent colored

1147
01:30:21,239 --> 01:30:27,079
light comes out, kind of a
purplish violet light. And he's looking in

1148
01:30:27,119 --> 01:30:32,039
the craft and he hears kind of
this inintelligible language. He can't understand what

1149
01:30:32,119 --> 01:30:35,920
the language. It's some kind of
foreign language. So he repeats back in

1150
01:30:36,039 --> 01:30:42,159
English, in German and French and
Polish, is there anybody there? There's

1151
01:30:42,239 --> 01:30:45,279
no answer. All of a sudden, this door slam shut. You thought

1152
01:30:45,319 --> 01:30:49,680
that was kind of rude. And
then this craft lifts off the ground about

1153
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:57,560
a foot and then makes this counterclockwise
motion. And then this other section,

1154
01:30:57,680 --> 01:31:03,279
which is about nine inches by six
inches. It has a very specific whole

1155
01:31:03,399 --> 01:31:09,399
pattern. This part lines up with
where he's standing, and it's either a

1156
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:15,920
chemical exhaust or a hot air exhaust
immediately comes out of this section and burns

1157
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:20,600
him, sets his clothes on fire
immediately after that portion. He had years

1158
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:28,159
of medical issues associated with this,
and the burn pattern on his chest matched

1159
01:31:28,279 --> 01:31:30,840
the whole pitch of the craft.
Itself and then this thing departed. So

1160
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:39,039
that's essentially the Falcon Lake encounter.
Wow, and he became I believe he

1161
01:31:39,079 --> 01:31:43,000
became sick, didn't he? Yes, he became sick. Here is the

1162
01:31:43,359 --> 01:31:46,760
shot of him looking inside the craft
itself. Oh yeah, he had definite

1163
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:53,600
physical effects. They absolutely burn the
portion of his chest and these burden marks

1164
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:58,199
went away and came back again multiple
times. And what was he doing with

1165
01:31:58,319 --> 01:32:03,319
that welders? He was trying to
protect his eyes as he was chipping rocks

1166
01:32:03,319 --> 01:32:09,079
away. I see, that's why
he had that. Yeah, all right,

1167
01:32:09,159 --> 01:32:12,119
yep, all right, what I'm
going to do is up now.

1168
01:32:13,039 --> 01:32:15,159
And did he have any long long
term effects? I know I've talked about

1169
01:32:15,159 --> 01:32:18,520
this case. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he went to the doctors

1170
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:23,880
for years afterwards. In fact,
he was very disoriented. It took him

1171
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:28,039
hours to get back home. So
again, this is another CE two case,

1172
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:31,199
very solid. Could could be the
most solid CE two case there is.

1173
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:35,680
Wow. Okay, I'm just putting
this image up overlaying it on top.

1174
01:32:36,319 --> 01:32:42,359
This was the grid for those on
YouTube. This was the grid that

1175
01:32:42,399 --> 01:32:45,840
he was burning. This is when
he was mostly recovered. Um, you

1176
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:49,800
know, it's a later image,
but anyway, and his clothes. Didn't

1177
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:54,039
they save his clothes too? I
think they did. Now he some people

1178
01:32:54,039 --> 01:32:58,760
don't know, but he actually wrote
a book about It's very obscure. David

1179
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:02,079
Marler has a copy in his collection. It's very obscure, but he describes

1180
01:33:02,119 --> 01:33:09,000
the entire case in detail. Wow. Yeah, And what about the believability

1181
01:33:09,119 --> 01:33:14,319
did he get? You know,
did he get debunked or people try to

1182
01:33:14,359 --> 01:33:17,000
debunk this story a lot? Do
you know. I've read some comments about

1183
01:33:17,039 --> 01:33:21,159
this, and one of these comments
I think makes sense to me. It's

1184
01:33:21,279 --> 01:33:25,720
kind of something that might go against
the case, but I'm just going to

1185
01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:30,800
bring it up either way. So, when you're talking about air flows and

1186
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:36,640
aerodynamics and things like that, when
air comes out of a hole, it

1187
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:45,520
dissipates immediately. So for him to
have such a focused burn seems a little

1188
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:48,840
bit not saying it's not true,
but the air would immediately have dissipated and

1189
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:54,920
would not have stayed in this beautifully
pitched hole pattern. But if it was

1190
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:58,199
a chemical thing, that might have
been different. But that was what one

1191
01:33:58,279 --> 01:34:01,079
person had talked about, which seems
to make sense. You would think that

1192
01:34:01,359 --> 01:34:05,039
coming out of this port, the
air would have dissipated immediately. Would never

1193
01:34:05,079 --> 01:34:09,760
been able to be focused enough to
make that. But again maybe it's possible,

1194
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:13,600
but that was one counter to the
case that I did here. Yeah,

1195
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:17,720
it would you know, the only
way something could remain focused like that,

1196
01:34:18,319 --> 01:34:23,680
right, possibly if it was a
high pressure you know, I mean

1197
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:27,319
that is, the higher the pressure, the less it would dissipate. Um,

1198
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:30,279
you know, depending on how close
he was to it. So understanding

1199
01:34:30,279 --> 01:34:34,359
that he actually he touched the craft
himself, it burned the glove and then

1200
01:34:34,439 --> 01:34:39,119
that's when he got burned as well. When this when the part lined up

1201
01:34:39,119 --> 01:34:41,880
with him, that's where he got
burned. So he actually touched the craft.

1202
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:45,159
So you know, it's a very
powerful CE two case. Yeah,

1203
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:50,520
yeah, I love that one.
Wow. Interesting And again this credit goes

1204
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:56,399
to your that's Tom Bogan. Yep. Yeah, Now he did these digitally.

1205
01:34:57,119 --> 01:35:00,880
Yeah, these are all doing and
photoshop from the original s. So

1206
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:03,920
we'd spend hours talking about the case. I'd send him all the reference material,

1207
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:06,760
all the drawings, the report and
then you know, like a lot

1208
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:10,680
of these cases that it took weeks
to do it. This is not easy

1209
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:14,439
work. I mean it's down in
the trenches and pulling out all the detail,

1210
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:17,199
and you know, I kind of
had to run how these things should

1211
01:35:17,199 --> 01:35:19,920
look. And then we went back
and forth and it took years to get

1212
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:25,520
all this pinned down. Oh,
bet ware, where do you want to

1213
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:30,239
go next? And okay, so
we can certainly talk about Lonnie Zamora,

1214
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:32,039
that Coral, New Mexico. Yeah, we can. We can talk about

1215
01:35:32,079 --> 01:35:36,520
that. So I think most people
are aware. This is the famous Linnie

1216
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:44,000
Zamora case nineteen sixty four. So
he's the case starts with him chasing a

1217
01:35:44,079 --> 01:35:47,880
speeder. He sees something fly overhead
and so he gives up the chase.

1218
01:35:48,399 --> 01:35:54,800
He follows this craft kind of down
a bend area. He eventually gets fairly

1219
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:59,880
close to it, and what he
sees it's about a twenty foot long elliptical

1220
01:36:00,039 --> 01:36:03,640
egg shape craft. It's white in
color. There were four pogal landing gear

1221
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:09,319
legs supporting this craft. Then he
saw it. He said, he saw

1222
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:14,560
at least two small statured beings that
were in white type fitting flight suits.

1223
01:36:15,199 --> 01:36:19,199
Now when they saw that he was
being seen by Linnie Zamora, they disappeared

1224
01:36:19,239 --> 01:36:26,039
into the craft. And then this
thing basically hovered off was there for about

1225
01:36:26,039 --> 01:36:30,800
sixty seconds and then departed, but
he also said that there were flames associated

1226
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:33,520
with the bottom of the craft that
scorched the earth. And then Blue Book

1227
01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:38,239
investigators got there, the Air Force
got there. They took photographs of the

1228
01:36:38,319 --> 01:36:43,079
landing marks, they took photographs of
the burn marks. So it's another CE

1229
01:36:43,119 --> 01:36:46,520
two case that's very credible. And
the reason why this is such a good

1230
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:51,520
case is because of the reliability the
credibility of Linnie Zamora. He was never

1231
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:57,760
questioned on his integrity and that's what
makes this case solid. Yeah, and

1232
01:36:58,119 --> 01:37:03,039
Jay allen Heineck actually invested agated this
personally. And when I was speaking to

1233
01:37:03,119 --> 01:37:08,520
Ray Stanford, he he was there, you know, when Jay allen Heineck

1234
01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:12,960
was there. They were both there
at the same time. So Ray tells

1235
01:37:13,039 --> 01:37:16,560
this story of spying kind of when
they're looking around, you know, at

1236
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:24,600
the burnt creosote bushes and the indentations, he spies a little bit of a

1237
01:37:24,640 --> 01:37:30,359
reflection on one of the rocks that
was in an indentation. So he when

1238
01:37:30,800 --> 01:37:36,640
Jay allen Heineck and whoever else left
there, he went back to the spot

1239
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:41,239
dug out the rock. Did you
ever hear this story? I heard that

1240
01:37:41,239 --> 01:37:45,720
there was some physical traces left over. Yeah, so it had like a

1241
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:50,439
metal of filing, a metal you
know, it was actually on the rock,

1242
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:57,079
like a scrape, and there was
actually material. He brought this in,

1243
01:37:58,199 --> 01:38:00,680
Um, I want to say Goddard. Now, I'm not really sure

1244
01:38:00,760 --> 01:38:03,720
that's right where he lives now,
right next to there, but he brought

1245
01:38:03,800 --> 01:38:09,319
it in, you know, trusting
that someone would just take He was very

1246
01:38:09,359 --> 01:38:13,960
specific, just remove a small part
of this and please leave the rest on

1247
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:16,640
Um. He never got anywhere he
found. He ended up getting the rock

1248
01:38:16,680 --> 01:38:21,399
back completely clean. Yeah. So, which is the same shame, because

1249
01:38:21,399 --> 01:38:26,319
there there was It's such a great
case. And you're right, you know,

1250
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:30,159
I've never heard a negative word about
Lonnie Zamorra. Nope, they never

1251
01:38:30,199 --> 01:38:32,600
did. Nope. He's pretty at
the time. I think he was like

1252
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:36,880
twenty in his twenties. I don't
recall exactly what his age was, But

1253
01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:43,199
you're right, the integrity of that
particular gentleman was never questioned. Right.

1254
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:46,399
As a matter of fact, it's
one that j Allen Heineck said, you

1255
01:38:46,439 --> 01:38:50,439
know, he really believed in this
one all the way through. And ye

1256
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:58,279
and what's your what's your? This
is one where now a lot of people

1257
01:38:58,319 --> 01:39:01,359
speculate it was our own technology,
so just have and I wonder what you

1258
01:39:01,399 --> 01:39:06,319
think about that. But secondly,
these beings supposedly were very small, They

1259
01:39:06,319 --> 01:39:11,159
were very small stature correct. Now, One thing I will say is that

1260
01:39:11,199 --> 01:39:15,920
this thing happened within a stone's throw
of White Sands missile range, that there

1261
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:17,680
could be a connection there. But
if you look on the map, we're

1262
01:39:17,720 --> 01:39:25,640
looking at just literally a stone's throwaway, right. And if they were testing,

1263
01:39:25,880 --> 01:39:29,000
you know, some of the debunkers
I know said it's a lunar module

1264
01:39:29,039 --> 01:39:31,720
they were testing, and that doesn't
make any sense at all. But if

1265
01:39:31,720 --> 01:39:36,279
they were actually testing something, if
this was a test equipment, why would

1266
01:39:36,279 --> 01:39:43,520
they have these little diminutive figures operating
the craft. I mean that that part

1267
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:47,279
wouldn't make sense in that scenario.
Well, plus, before it departed,

1268
01:39:47,359 --> 01:39:51,319
it hovered for a little bit less
than a minute silently, and then it

1269
01:39:51,399 --> 01:39:57,880
departed. So we're not talking about
you know, just rocket liquid rockets here.

1270
01:39:58,119 --> 01:40:02,079
There's something else going on. It's
not just some liquid rocket powered lunar

1271
01:40:02,159 --> 01:40:05,279
module. There's something else going on
here that we're not being told, or

1272
01:40:06,159 --> 01:40:12,159
something else completely different than that.
But yes, also it had this insignia

1273
01:40:12,239 --> 01:40:15,000
that no one, to my knowledge
yet has been able to decipher what it

1274
01:40:15,039 --> 01:40:19,079
was. It was in red,
It was above this hatch, and it

1275
01:40:19,119 --> 01:40:24,840
looked like a TP with a slash
mark and then a horizon above that.

1276
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:29,239
No one has been able to decipher
what that is to my knowledge. Now,

1277
01:40:29,239 --> 01:40:33,199
there's been a lot of controversy about
that particular logo, whatever you want

1278
01:40:33,199 --> 01:40:40,840
to call it, because they told
Lonnie Samora at the time, we're going

1279
01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:44,520
to say that it looked like this. That's because they didn't want any copycat

1280
01:40:44,920 --> 01:40:48,279
type of situation. They wanted to
really investigate it. So I know there's

1281
01:40:48,319 --> 01:40:53,279
you know, Ray Stanford and a
number of people have gone back and forth

1282
01:40:53,319 --> 01:40:58,359
of what the original actually looked like. And I know that Ben Moss is

1283
01:40:58,399 --> 01:41:01,760
coming out with a book and supposed
that he's going to have he's working with

1284
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:08,399
Ray and it's supposed to have you
know, what was actually seen. It

1285
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:12,039
seems like there was a lot of
a lot of people causing a lot of

1286
01:41:12,079 --> 01:41:16,039
problem about that one small detail on
this case. Did you notice that a

1287
01:41:16,079 --> 01:41:21,159
little bit? Yes? Yeah,
and and but it uh it's another really,

1288
01:41:21,319 --> 01:41:24,880
I mean, I think it's one
of the top cases myself. It

1289
01:41:25,039 --> 01:41:29,199
is one of the In fact,
it's in the uh the briefing document that

1290
01:41:29,279 --> 01:41:33,319
was put together by Don Berliner Antonio. Who know is this was handed to

1291
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:40,840
the Rockefeller Foundation. They're the ones
who funded that research. So at the

1292
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:45,119
very least Hillary Clinton, she knows
about this. Bill Clinton, he knows

1293
01:41:45,159 --> 01:41:46,520
about it. So they're aware of
it because they got a copy of that

1294
01:41:46,600 --> 01:41:50,479
report. Yeah. Now I will
tell this, and I hope it doesn't

1295
01:41:50,680 --> 01:41:56,359
upset some people because they want to
see what Ray Stanford has um and he

1296
01:41:56,600 --> 01:42:01,199
raised very careful about what he shares. I was at his house in Baltimore

1297
01:42:01,600 --> 01:42:09,079
and we actually visited Goddard his wife
was working there, and got a tour

1298
01:42:09,199 --> 01:42:12,199
through there. It was really interesting. But he showed me some pictures and

1299
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:16,199
he went back to the dynamite shack
I think it was over one hundred days

1300
01:42:16,239 --> 01:42:23,600
afterwards, and wanted to take pictures
of the area for research. So he

1301
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:28,279
snapped a bunch of pictures and then
he had someone, a friend or whatever,

1302
01:42:28,600 --> 01:42:31,560
stand over by the dynamite shock so
they could get perspective just for the

1303
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:38,880
you for a human figure. And
he was going through the different images and

1304
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:43,279
he showed me something while I was
visiting him, And even though This was

1305
01:42:43,319 --> 01:42:45,680
one hundreds some odd days later.
And this is what makes me think there

1306
01:42:45,720 --> 01:42:49,760
could be a White Sands connection.
I actually saw it with my own eyes,

1307
01:42:50,199 --> 01:42:54,560
an image that he blew up,
and it looked like an egg shaped

1308
01:42:56,279 --> 01:43:00,600
vehicle hovering even with feet hanging down, just like this image. And it

1309
01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:05,239
was not photoshopped. This was an
original picture from nineteen sixty four or whenever.

1310
01:43:05,279 --> 01:43:09,840
This is that when that happened,
Yes, nineteen sixty four. So

1311
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:15,000
he has a photograph of an egg
shaped craft parked in this vicinity. I

1312
01:43:15,039 --> 01:43:17,000
saw it with my not parked.
It was in the sky, and I

1313
01:43:17,039 --> 01:43:21,279
saw this with my own eyes.
You know, he took an image and

1314
01:43:23,159 --> 01:43:27,079
he actually blew it up, but
it's as clear as a bell, and

1315
01:43:27,159 --> 01:43:30,000
he won't he's he does not want
to put it out in public. And

1316
01:43:30,079 --> 01:43:33,279
I hope, you know, I
will probably get some email help out that

1317
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:39,239
because people are upset that he's not
sharing it. He said, eventually he's

1318
01:43:39,239 --> 01:43:43,119
going to let the whole thing out. Um, you know, he's he's

1319
01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:46,760
pushing some age there right now,
and so hopefully these things will He's got

1320
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:51,399
quite quite a file of things and
quite a collection of videos that he's taken

1321
01:43:51,479 --> 01:43:56,680
himself. That's pretty interesting. I
spent a couple of days there and I

1322
01:43:56,800 --> 01:44:00,520
got to say that was the highlight
seeing that picture. So he was on

1323
01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:02,279
the scene one hundred days after the
event in sixty four, right, one

1324
01:44:02,359 --> 01:44:06,479
hundred some odd days. Yes,
it took that picture, took a picture

1325
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:11,319
for prospect. Never even noticed it
until he was going through, looking real

1326
01:44:11,399 --> 01:44:14,640
carefully, and then he saw something
and then he blew it up and blew

1327
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:17,960
it up, and that's what it
was. Interesting. Wow, that is

1328
01:44:18,720 --> 01:44:21,880
So we got a couple of minutes
left here. You want to go into

1329
01:44:21,920 --> 01:44:25,479
another case, Yeah, I think
we can. We can do one more

1330
01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:31,039
here, sure, and again you
know, for the person listening, it's

1331
01:44:31,079 --> 01:44:34,159
going to be really worth it to
check out this link I'll have and these

1332
01:44:34,199 --> 01:44:41,199
pictures will be there. So this
is nineteen seventy Finland. There are two

1333
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:47,600
skiers that see this pink cloud in
their location. It gets closer and closer.

1334
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:50,279
Now this is documented at least two
different sources. In my book.

1335
01:44:50,279 --> 01:44:56,880
I talk about the references as well. This cloud parks over their location and

1336
01:44:56,600 --> 01:45:00,079
then then they see this beam of
light shine down and then there's this huge

1337
01:45:00,159 --> 01:45:04,640
spark that takes place. The next
thing they know they see this small I'm

1338
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:08,319
going to call it a garden noome
because that's what it looked like. I'm

1339
01:45:08,359 --> 01:45:12,239
not making up. It's in the
report. This gardennome that was about three

1340
01:45:12,279 --> 01:45:16,359
feet tall, small stature. He
was wearing a green one piece tight fitting

1341
01:45:16,399 --> 01:45:20,319
suit. He had green colored boots
that were darker in color. He had

1342
01:45:20,359 --> 01:45:25,680
a cone shaped hat. He was
carrying a box with what looked like a

1343
01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:30,119
lens and he was moving the box
on his chest from one side of the

1344
01:45:30,119 --> 01:45:33,399
other like he was taking pictures of
the two skiers. And then there was

1345
01:45:33,439 --> 01:45:41,279
another big bright spark and this being
disappeared, and then this dome that looked

1346
01:45:41,279 --> 01:45:45,359
like a Damski's craft with the balls
on the bottom. This thing departed at

1347
01:45:45,359 --> 01:45:48,279
a medium rady speed. And so
this is back in nineteen seventy in Finland.

1348
01:45:48,319 --> 01:45:50,920
So we've got that case and that's
been reported. In fact, we've

1349
01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:57,560
got the original sketches and photographs of
the two ye witnesses as well. Yeah,

1350
01:45:57,640 --> 01:46:02,880
what a bizarre case. Bizarre justs
are yeah, yeah, and a

1351
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:08,840
dam Ski. I don't know,
but I'm putting credibility on that. It

1352
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:13,439
looks like that craft. Yeah about
that? Yeah, that's great. That's

1353
01:46:13,479 --> 01:46:16,039
a great one. Uh yeah,
we get a minute and a half here,

1354
01:46:16,079 --> 01:46:20,920
so let's let's just talk about where
can someone find this? And these

1355
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:26,880
all these illustrations and a lot more
are in your in your book, so

1356
01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:30,520
where can someone get this? Yep? The book is called Dark Files,

1357
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:35,199
A Pictorial History of Loss, Forgotten
and Obscure UFO Encounters. It's available as

1358
01:46:35,239 --> 01:46:41,279
a Kindle downloadable file on Amazon right
now. So just put in Dark Files

1359
01:46:41,399 --> 01:46:45,399
my name and it'll pop right up. That's great. And um, you

1360
01:46:45,439 --> 01:46:47,359
know, I gotta say, um, I, this is the first time

1361
01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:50,359
you've been on the show. I
have to say that I really appreciate your

1362
01:46:50,439 --> 01:46:55,960
your hard work. Sure, and
I'm glad that you know people will contact

1363
01:46:55,960 --> 01:47:00,720
you and you are in these uh
you know, um different shows about the

1364
01:47:00,760 --> 01:47:05,640
topic because you take it serious and
just you know, we have less than

1365
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:10,479
a minute. But I've just wonder
what you think about most triangle UFOs that

1366
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:14,800
people are seeing today. Do you
think there are technology? I do think

1367
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:17,399
there are technology, Yes, I
do the vast majority. Now I'm going

1368
01:47:17,439 --> 01:47:21,920
to leave it open, but if
you go to David Marler's collection, he's

1369
01:47:23,039 --> 01:47:27,479
got a whole series on triangles and
a lot of them have those same repeating

1370
01:47:28,119 --> 01:47:30,279
patterns that we've seen in the cases
that we've examined today. Some of those

1371
01:47:30,319 --> 01:47:35,800
same type patterns appear in the Triangle
craft as well. Wow, well,

1372
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:39,000
I don't know what to say about
that. I don't know for sure.

1373
01:47:39,359 --> 01:47:43,680
It's I don't think we'll know right
away, but we may you never know.

1374
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:45,520
Thank you so much, it's been
a real pleasure. Thank you,

1375
01:47:45,560 --> 01:47:47,920
Martin, thank you. All Right, all right, everyone, so we're

1376
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:51,560
gonna be back next week. We're
gonna get Don Schmidt another chance, because

1377
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:58,520
you know, he faded away on
a lightning struck a transformer. Hopefully that

1378
01:47:58,560 --> 01:48:01,000
won't happen again, so he'll be
with us next week. Thanks so much

1379
01:48:01,039 --> 01:48:18,560
for listening, and remember to keep
your eyes to the sky.