Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host. We've
got a little bit of a late start. I'll talk with Alejandro about that,
so I have someone to complain to. But anyway, we're here.
That's the important thing. Our guest tonight is Paul Stark. We're gonna be
talking about his movie was called The Vatican Deception. We're gonna be talking about
Fatima. I always like that subject. That's very interesting. It's very interesting
because it's one of those unexplained things that people have tried to explain it in
different ways. Well, a couple of quick announcements. I try to get
down here. Who's Donnie here? The retired police officer has been here a
number of times in studio. Why because it's my last It's my last show
on top of the mountain. I am actually moving and hence that's the reason
the show started about seven minutes late. But anyway, I don't like moving.
So I want to thank everyone that supports the show very much. I
couldn't do it without you. And we're getting ready to roll, all right,
so you phone news SpaceX. So there's a lot of news about these
extraordinary lights in the sky in La just a couple of nights ago, Sunday
night, actually, and that was space X. Everybody probably knows that by
now. However, SpaceX tried to let people know before it happen, you
know, to keep an eye out, that this spectacular light show would be
happening near LA and people would be able to see it. But it's still
sparked a lot of people going what the heck, you know, they just
didn't know what was going on, including some of our friends. I got
a call from Lee Spiegel in San Francisco, working with our friend James Fox,
a documentary maker, and someone had their neighbor came over and said,
hey, UFO. Guys, there's a UFO in the sky. So they
all ran out and they're amazed by what they saw. And Lee give me
a call. Oh my gosh, we just saw UFO and he sent me
pictures and they were amazing. But the first thing I said was I know
what that is. That's SpaceX, and which is equally as exciting. I
mean, he seemed kind of bummed, but I think it's very exciting because
essentially what happened, and I have my little rocket pen here to demonstrate this
is actually the Saturn five. But the rocket took off and leaves behind this
gas trail and you see these plumes of the gas and what's exciting. And
this is why Lee should be excited about having the pictures and this whole thing
being historic, because it also looked cool coming down because it came back.
Rockets usually don't come back. This is the first time this rocket landed on
the ground. Now SpaceX has had falconine rockets launch and come land black on
the planet again to be reusable, but in the past they've used these remote
drone boats that they land on because like the first couple of times it happened,
the rockets fall over and explode and people would have died if they would
have been on board. They were damaged. So this was the first time
on land. So that's I think so extremely exciting, amazing. And do
you know is this remotely operated or is it all do you know what happened
to if it's computer operated? Oh yeah, the whole thing is all computer
operated. And then it's complicated. But a lot of even aerospaces like this
where you know it's the fly by wire, the whole computers in control because
it makes these minute adjustments just tons and tons and essentially just the bigger computer
you have, the better you can do this sort of thing. And the
computers also learn over time, so they learn how to make the right adjustments
to make sure that the rocket is staying upright and then also the right pressure
for the jets to push to be able to land on the ground like Buck
Rogers or something. In fact, the Dragon spacecraft is going to be the
first likely to be the first to take humans space for the US. Again,
our contract is out with the Russians and what they wanted to do SpaceX
they were going to actually land that rocket that way, but they're not going
to now they're just going to use parachutes. Boeing, who is the competition
who right now is behind But they may catch up with SpaceX and they may
be the first foot space people in space next year sometime. But their rocket
is going to land on land, but not like this Falcon did the other
night. What they're going to do is they have essentially balloons. They have
that blow up and then this thing land on the ground kind of on these
these balloons. So um, that's how they're gonna do it. Balloons on
the underside of it. Or you're talking about yeah, on the under side
of the carriage. Yeah, so you have, you know, a capsule.
I'm looking for something that looks like a capsule. Right, Oh,
here's a UFO. Well that Mark Antonio made this well not everybody, but
essentially it comes down like yeah, you know, it's got the parachutes and
then it comes down through the atmosphere and then below here these uh like crash
bags you know, like we have in our car, kind of inflate and
then it just goes monk and at lant on the ground. So, um,
just tons of exciting stuff going on in space, and with the privatization
of space that we've got going on right now, all of these companies are
building essentially craft that are not like what we've had in the past. So
that's why we see all these lights the other night with SpaceX, and we'll
continue to see new innovative spacecraft, especially throughout the next couple of years,
being launched and then coming back through the atmosphere to the planet. So it's
going to be an exciting time from here on out. Really, it's it's
the space age again. We're going to be seeing an abundance of different craft
and things coming in and out of our atmosphere and that will only continue as
humanity before we kind of blow ourselves up again or something. But yeah,
so's it's just an exciting time. So again, you know, drones were
something that really changed what people see in the sky, and especially for those
of us who follow uf votes because a lot of stuff can be droned.
That we're going through kind of a similar thing where more and more, you
know, like private space projects will be misidentified for UFOs and stuff. So
I think it's really exciting right now what we have going on. Otherwise,
let's see some of the other UFO news that we had talked about the other
day. I think this is cool. The Casino dot Org. I don't
think we had talked about that before on your show. So there's a story.
There's a few stories out there. I know this Australian paper had written
about it. And Interactive map tracks every US alien sighting since nineteen forty.
Well they're not alien sightings, but they are UFO sightings. But essentially,
Casino dot Org put up this UFO site where they're giving us the odds,
what are the odds that you would see a UFO because you can bet on
stuff like that, you know, and they have these dropdowns where you can
see how many sightings have been reported in different states and different countries. There's
also an interactive map where you can click on it, so it's really cool,
and then it tells you the odds depending on the state you live in
the odds that you may see a UFO. It's all so got a timeline
for different UFO sightings throughout the years, and some more statistics on UFO sightings.
So it is really interesting site, really cool stuff there. I had
linked to it, and actually casino dot org sent me a thank you on
Twitter, which is kind of cool. So it seems like and they interacted
a bunch or a little bit with people. It seems like they're really you.
Who ever put together that site's really into the topic. But they did
a really good job with that. So that's something that people should check out.
And I think they did that in celebration of NASA's sixtieth anniversary. And
you had pointed out on my podcast this other article regarding NASA's sixtieth anniversary,
which is why haven't we found aliens yet? And then there was another one
and PC Magazine is here's why aliens will probably come in peace. So these
are all kind of the Scientific Communities Group efforts and idea. He is behind
UFOs and well aliens especially, not so much UFOs, but still they're really
interesting topics and ideas that people should check out. Excellent, Okay, Alejandro,
thanks so much, no problem, thank you. All right, Okay,
everyone, and I'll talk to you next week. I appreciate it.
Yep. Okay, evern. We have to go into a break here in
just one minute. But first before we do, I would like to introduce
our guests and and hang on just one moment. So Paul Stark, he
is a he is a producer and he's also a director, and the film
we're going to be talking about is The Vatican Deception, and it should be
a great one. And we've got to go right into break right after our
introduce them. Okay, Paul, welcome to the show. Thank you.
Hi, yeah, Martin, and thank you for having me on your show.
Sure, and thanks for your patience when I was running behind today.
I appreciate that. It sounds like you're a little of a big move there,
So yes, I could have planned a little better. I suppose anyway,
we have to go into the break, So hang in there, everyone.
This is Martin with podcast UFO and kg R A radio, and I'm
with my guest Paul Stark, and we'll be right back right after this break.
All right. So, Paul, as I mentioned when we were I
called you through my phone and Skype and told you during this during these breaks
were actually live. So I guess we could talk about where do you live?
Are you in Canada? Right, that's right, Yeah, I'm located
in Toronto, Canada, Toronto, Uh huh. And how did you get
into filmmaking? Well, it was an interest of mine for quite a number
of years, and I got into it first by studying filmmaking at local university
here. Uh. And from there I started to build my own studio and
I started producing some of my own films. Back in two thousand and three,
when I started my production company, I produced a short film which went
on to win awards in Hollywood and New York and Houston and Toronto. So
yeah, it was a good start. But you know, uh, it's
uh, it's always you're always having to work to uh, you know,
to to to do more and to prove yourself, you know. You can
never just rest on your laurelds. You're always having to prove yourself. And
so, uh, you know, that was the beginning. And since then,
I've I've produced other award winning films and I have to say, this
is my first documentary that I've ever produced. Oh oh wow. Yeah.
No, people's people will forget you fast, especially you know, you think
of a lot of the actors, like where are they now? I haven't
seen this, you know, this person or that person for forever, and
they once they're like out of the light. A lot of times, it's
hard for them to get back, you know. They yeah, that's it.
And these are people who were hugely successful, people who were known,
you know, nationally, right. So I'm I'm just an independent guy.
I'm not well known yet, and so it's got to be a little more
difficult even for me. And this, uh, this topic we will talk
about that. We still have a couple of minutes left here. So this
topic, Um, is this something that you've wanted to explore? I mean
it's you know, pretty pretty interesting. And I did you know, watch
the trail? I didn't see the movie itself. Um, and uh,
is that movie actually out where someone can actually watch it or is that I
know it's in limited theaters at one time, right, Yeah, that's right.
So we did release it to limit did number of theaters back earlier this
year in January, and it's been screened in theaters across Canada and also in
the UK, and there was also a recent screening in Cincinnati, Ohio.
But we're actually about to release the film online now so that the entire world
can get to see this film. And the date for that release is coming
up this Saturday, October thirteen. And how's that? And we'll talk a
little about when we're back on khr A Radio. How is that? You
said online? So how are people going to watch? That's not like Netflix
or anything like that. It's something you'd have to order. Yeah, that's
right. It's uh. You're probably familiar with video, yep. So video
has the platform, a video on demand platform that allows people to show their
films and to you know, to allow people to either rent it or buy
it. Yea. And so it will be on the videos video on demand
form that we'll be releasing it. I see. All right, welcome back.
My guest is Paul Stark. He has a movie out called The Vatican
Deception. We're on KGr A Radio and the show is podcast UFO, and
we're on every Tuesday on KGr A Radio. And we're also you can watch
us on live on YouTube streaming at the same time, and that's six to
eight pm Eastern Standard time every Tuesday. All right, So again we were
before the break, I'd only had a couple of minutes. So if you
can kind of tell the listening audience basically your background and and then we'll talk
about we'll talk about your movie and a certain part of it. I want
to talk about Fatima. I'm very interested in that. So so if you
would give your background, if you would to the you went to film school
we talked about on the break, and just kind of fill in the listener
q gr A Radio. Yeah, sure, So I actually I actually started
by studying business. And the reason I got that business background was because in
the film business you have to run a business. So I have a degree
from Sir Wilfrid Laurier University, and after I graduated there, I started studying
filmmaking at Ryerson University in Toronto, Canada, and from there I decided to
open up or start my own film production company. So when I did that,
one of the first projects that I produced was a short film which I
submitted to a number of festivals in North America, and the film ended up
winning a number of awards in Hollywood and New York and in Houston and Toronto.
And so that was my start to film me. I thought, if
I'm able to do this on the first film, hopefully I can reproduce the
success and start producing bigger films. I had a guy gentleman named Bryce Zabel
on and on the show a while ago. He's brilliant guy, and his
wife said to him one day, you know, you should you should write
like a movies. You could do that and like the very first one he
ended up doing. I forget whether in Dark Dark Skies or something like that.
Ended up doing all these series, one right after the other. Was
a hit, you know, I mean not a big hit, but I
mean enough to sustain. So some people do get lucky and some people really
have the mind for that. For the YouTube listener, it looks like,
do you have like an antique computer behind you? Is that what I'm looking
at? Is that a whole computer? Are you in a computer store or
something? That's uh Yeah, you're you're looking at an old CRT television,
which I've been meeting the place. But yeah, that is an antique,
I guess by today's standards. Yeah it still works and I haven't used it
for probably over a year now, but yeah, I think that it's time
for an upgrade. Well, hey, you know, it might be worth
something someday. I know the Apple one, the Apple the first Apple computer.
It just looks like a keyboard with a bunch of wires and sold for
over two million dollars at auction a few years ago. You know, their
experimental model. So there is there is going to be a market. I
meant kind of like in the market for antiques and all that stuff, and
there is going to be a market someday for computers. But I know I'll
be long gone by then. Anyway. The key is that the rest of
the equipment is up to date. So that's that's the most important. That's
right. That's right. So I'd like to jump in and talk about Fatima
because I mentioned kind of in the intro that there are different people have different
takes on what and what took place. It's very it's really fascinating, I
know, it began October thirteenth, I think it was nineteen seventeen, which
is did I get that sort of right? Sort sort of October thirteen,
It was actually the last date that the apparitions took place, and they started
six months earlier on May thirteen, nineteen seventeen. Now, and some some
people want to take it the complete, you know, alien way and say
that the being was an alien actually, and then there's the religious side,
where I think your film gets into and they want to say it was a
prophecy and all that. So have you looked at both sides? Or because
the one thing, you know, also called the Miracle of the Sun,
the one thing sounds an awful lot like a UFO. And then a number
of people had had mentioned that someone a good friend of the show, Sam
Mironto, has been on the show. He he was following that could be
possibly a UFO. And it's certainly unidentified, that's for sure. But can
you, for the first time listener that's never heard about the fat Amount incident,
can you kind of in a nutshell tell the story if you would?
Yeah, sure, I'll try to keep it as as concise as I can,
because there's just so much there's so much history there, there's so much
detail. Well, we have plenty of times, yes, sure, sure,
So I'll fill in all of that detail for you as much as I
can, as concisely as I can. First of all, just to clarify,
you mentioned that this is sort of looking at the religious side of it
to some extent, Yes, because you know, we're showing we're showing what
the children reported, and you know, obviously their experience was a religious experience,
and so we had to look at it from that standpoint. But for
your listeners who are wondering, this is actually an investigative documentary and what it
does is it it investigates. Sure, we have to give some detail about
what happened in nineteen seventeen, but then what we're interested in is what the
Vatican did with that information afterwards, and that's what the investigation is about what's
being concealed and what isn't and what's going on there. So you know,
with that overview, I'll give you a little bit of the history of what
happened in nineteen seventeen and what these children reported. So it began on May,
well, it began before May thirteen, but for you know, for
simplicity. Let's just say on May thirteen, this is when the children started
reporting that the Blessed Virgin was appearing to them. And at the beginning they
seemed to know that it was the Blessed Virgin, that was their sense of
it, but she never really identified herself to them. So the children were
also referring to her as a Lady of Light, and she would appear to
them every single month on the same day at the same time. Usually it
was around it was around noon hour on the thirteenth day of every month.
And on the July thirteenth apparition this Lady of Light, the children reported that
she revealed a set of prophecies to the children, and these prophecies were referred
to as the Three Secrets of Fatima. And you can imagine, you know,
with every passing month, people were learning about what these children were reporting,
and they were becoming curious. They were wondering what's going on, and
so crowds were growing every month. There were bigger crowds coming out to see
what was going on, and only the children could see the Blessed Virgin.
Anybody who came out there didn't see what the children saw. What they were
seeing, though, was what the people would see was something a little bit
more. Like they would notice, for example that the sun, the hot
sun would be a little bit dimmed. They were able to look at the
sun without it hurting their their eyes. They would see other signs like sometimes
they would see like would seem like a cloud over the tree where the children
were reporting that they were seeing the Blessed Virgin. There were other types of
signs that they saw, like pedals falling from the sky. So these are
the sort of things that the people saw, But the children they saw this
lady of light. And so what was happening. Over time, the news,
the secular media was catching wind about these apparitions and they started reporting about
it in the news, and a lot of people believed that the children were
making up the stories. Some people didn't buy it at all, and so
these children were being persecuted and even Lucia. I'll give you the names of
the three children. So Lucia was the oldest one, Lucia dos Santos,
and she was there with her two younger cousins, Jacinta and Francisco Marto Marto,
and Lucia was ten years old. Her cousins Jacinta was seven and mart
and Francisco was eight, And so Lucia's mother, her own mother thought that
she was lying, that she was making these stories up, and she persecuted
her own daughter, and the people from the neighborhood were also persecuting these kids,
and the media was mocking them, and the persecutions became so bad that
Lucia finally decided to ask this lady, can you perform a miracle so people
will believe that you're really appearing to us. And so she said, yeah,
keep coming every month at the same time, on the same day,
and on the final apparition, I'll perform a miracle for everybody to see.
And so on October thirteenth, the final apparition, there was a crowd of
seventy thousand people that came out in the fields in the middle of nowhere to
see what was going to happen. The secular media came out, there were
photographers, everybody came out in this field to see what was going to happen.
And and it's worth noting that during that night before, there were torrential
rains that were falling, and the rain was so heavy that it flooded the
fields. There was water everywhere, there was mud. People were soaked coming
out in the field, but it didn't deter them. They still came out,
and at exactly the time predicted, they looked up in the sky and
they could see the clouds parting, and they said that what they witnessed was
what they called the miracle of the Sun, and what they saw what was
at the beginning. They said that the sun looked like a disc that was
spinning, and it was possible for them to look at it with their eyes
without it hurting their eyes. And it began to move in a zigzag pattern,
and it began throwing off colors, and they said that they noticed all
around them the colors of uh, you know, everything looked multi colored.
Their clothes looked colored, the trees, the grass, everything looked colored.
And so this continued for a while with the sun moving around in a zigzag
pattern, and at one point they said it looked like it had detached itself
from the sky and they it looked like it was plummeting toward the earth,
and everybody who was there started to panic. People started to, you know,
feel like they were going to die. People felt at their knees they
began to pray. They were praying for forgiveness, and then the sun returned
to its natural orbit in the sky. So that was the end of it.
The whole thing lasted for about ten minutes, and everybody said that when
this whole thing was over, they noticed that everything was suddenly dry. The
all of that water that had fallen overnight, it had been, it was
gone. And I remembered scientists being a report about house and scientists said that
the amount of energy that would have been required to evaporate that much water in
that sort of amount of time would have incinerated the people. So it was
a very interesting phenomenon. Everybody who was there reported the same thing, and
that was essentially what they called the miracle of the sun. Now there are
about seventy thousand people in the middle of nowhere, and it's just it's just
really, really, really something else. And there's a lot of images.
Anyone can find these images on Google or anywhere else online, and people with
her umbrellas and all that. So's the here's the thing about everything drying is
really bizarre. And I know mud was dried up into regular dried like soil
or whatever, but we know that the Sun didn't actually do that, you
know the sun. Of course, all the scientists in the world would say,
hey, the Sun did something really weird one day. We also know,
the Sun's not really connected to us, like like it could fall down
into the you know, from the sky and all that. So the only
part that doesn't sound like it's just a plane, you know, UFO of
some kind is when it seems to go back to its normal state. You
know, that doesn't fit the rest of of what you'd consider like a UFO.
So yeah, there there is that. But there's another thing that I
find very interesting with all of this, and because I have heard how some
people suggested that maybe it was a UFO sighting. Uh, there's other people
who also suggested that it might have been a mass hallucination. Yeah, but
getting back to the UFO theory, one thing that I found very interesting about
this entire event is the religious aspect of it. And you know, it's
difficult to ignore that part of it when you look back. Actually before me
thirteen before these apparitions started, Lucia reported that something else had happened before that
the year before, and what it was was she said that there was an
angel that appeared to her. She called it an angel, and this angel
when it appeared to her it um. I don't know how familiar you are
with the Catholic Mass, you might know about you know, how they they
received the Eucharist and the body and blood of Christ, they call it.
These children they received the body and blood of Christ in a sort of a
divine form. It appeared to them and they I saw this Euchrist and a
chalice floating before them, and they received this communion um from an angel or
with the with the presence of this angel. So the thing that I find
doesn't make sense with the UFO story is that why would you have this religious
thing um Like UFOs normally don't function that way. You know, you don't
usually associate UFOs with the Euchrist and with the receiving of the communion. So
that's kind of that's the thing that really comes to mind for me. And
also the messages when you look at the messages that these children received, they
were all messages. They were warnings about what was coming. They were warnings.
They I don't remember ever hearing about a UFO that predicted something that was
coming. So these predictions also make it very interesting, you know what you
do here? As you do, we hear a lot of a lot of
people or that have had encounters say that they have like a warning or they
could see the earth and turmoil, you know, whether it's climate change or
whatever it is. We have to take care of the plane. If that's
a message that a lot of people do discuss. And then, you know,
playing devil's advocate a little bit, perhaps if it going back the other
way, if it was some type of and I don't have to say aliens,
if it was some type of being or whatever, perhaps they were communicating
in a way that they thought would be understood, you know. But the
Secrets of Fatima, now there's the two that were released, and then there's
the third one that was supposed to be read actually by the Vatican, right
by the Pope or whatever, released basically in nineteen sixty Do I have that
right? Yes, that's right. So whatever happened to the and do you
know why they never never talked about the third secret? Yeah, we do
have quite a bit of information about it. To begin with the first two
secrets they were revealed in the nineteen forties early nineteen forties, and the third
secret was as you say, it was supposed to be released in nineteen sixty.
And we know this because the world was anticipating the release. Back in
the nineteen fifties, there was a film made about the whole story of Fatima
and what happened. In nineteen seventeen, Warner Brothers released a film about it,
and it was actually nominated for an Academy Award in nineteen fifty three,
So, you know, so everybody knew that this third Secret was supposed to
be released, and they knew that it was supposed to be in nineteen sixty,
the release year. So when nineteen sixty came, the Vatican decided not
to release it, and there was a lot of speculation around what was going
on why they weren't releasing it, and so that became the mystery over the
last fifty years. Now, now, if you want to find out what
that secrets about, you know, anybody who claims that they know the exact
details of it, you know, I don't. I would. I'd be
skeptical about whether they do or not. But we do have enough information out
there to have a pretty good understanding of its essence. And just before you
move on, I just wanted you to clarify, how do you have that
information. So this is from testimonies of people who have actually handled the secret
or read the Third Secret. So these are like first what they called it.
It's like a primary source information. And one of the one of the
key testimonies comes from well, there's a number of one of the people who
spoke about it as a man by the name of Father Malachi Martin Oh.
Yes, he was in the Vatican during this time in the nineteen sixties when
they were supposed to be released, and his cardinal, Cardinal Baya, was
close to the Pope and he had a chance to read the Third Secret of
Fatima through Cardinal Baya. Father Malachi had a chance to read it through Cardinal
Baia, and so he knew the details of it. And he had done
a number of interviews on the Art Bell Show during the nineteen nineties and he
was interviewed at length about a number of things, including the prophecy of Fatima,
and Father Malachi had talked about it. Some of the things that he
said was the Secret of Fatima. It involved two key things. Number one,
he said that it would have something to do with the Great Apostasy,
like a wholesale He called it a wholesale apostasy throughout the church, among laity
and among the Catholic clergy. And he said, the other salient characteristic about
it is that it means intense suffering globally for the entire world. So that's
that's one thing that we know about the third secret. And you know,
when you analyze and you dig into this, you start to realize, especially
for anybody who belongs to the Catholic faith, if you start to hear about
this, uh, this wholesale apostasy, it's it's basically it's an attack on
your own faith. It's it's um, it's it's an abandonment of faith that
could have a devastating impact on the entire church at one point two billion people.
So um, that would pretty much fit the bill of something that would
you know, that would give motivation, that would give motivation to the top
people in the church to conceal interesting And I know you know right now,
the of course, the Catholic you know, religion is under fire basically with
a lot of scandals going on, so they're probably this is something they wouldn't
you know, feel like they had to release. I mean they have their
handsful right now. Yeah, that's right, that's right. There's enough controversy
now that it's not something that they would want to bring up. And yet
it's interesting because you know, if you went back to the nineteen sixties when
this was actually supposed to be released, and if you had told a Catholic
back then that's such a time would would come in our lifetime when the church
would unravel and they would appear to be collapsing. Back then, they would
never have believed it. They would have said, you're crazy. This institution
is two thousand years old and it survived, and for you to say something
like that just doesn't make any sense. And yet here we are now the
prediction is actually fulfilling itself. We are seeing scandals beyond our imagination. And
even Pope Benedict the sixteenth last year, he himself said the church is on
the verge of capsizing. So what seemed to be like an impossible prediction is
actually fulfilling itself. So this is what you know, I find very interesting
with the Fatama prophecies is this was predicted and it could never have been It
could never have been imagined. So that was one of the things that were
that were predicted in one of the so called secret. That's right. So
what we're referring to here is where Malachi Martin talked about the great apostasy or
the the wholesale apostasy in the church. There was another cardinal, actually a
Cardinal Chiappe, who also read the Third Secret, and he also said that
in the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great
apostasy in the Church would begin at the top. Well, he's referring to
something, you know, obviously at the very highest levels of the hierarchy,
something like that. Again, like you know, it would have been hard
to imagine something like that even even fifteen or twenty years ago. And yet
here we are now living and seeing for ourselves. We have a lot of
stuff going on, as you've been hearing in the media that is making you
wonder what's going on at the top, and do they even still believe in
their own values, in their own faith, their own dogma. And you
know, I'll let people answer that question for themselves, but you know,
you have brought the attention to it. Obviously something's going on, but it
was predicted and we're seeing it. Yeah, all right, So we're ready
to go to break, So hang in there. We'll be back for KGr
A Radio. This is Martin Willis with my guest Paul Stark the Vatican Deception.
Thanks all right. So, um, in this break, we'll actually
be taking calls, you know, in a little bit, so Evan,
if you won't mind putting up the call number up there, So we'll be
taking calls up in this second hour. It's not going to be quite an
hour because we're on the radio station and it's cutting into their time a little
bit, so it's going to be as short of that. So for something
for us to talk about for about three and a half minutes here, how
about how your film has been received so far. It sounds like it sounds
like it's actually got some momentum. What are some other parts in the film
besides you know, Fatima, can you just touch on some of those?
Uh yeah, so let me think, because I mean, the focus obviously
is on the prophecies, the predictions and how we're actually seeing the fulfillment of
them. One of the predictions was about the start of World War two.
That was very interesting and your listeners might want to have a look at this
I don't know if I should wait until we get back back on, but
your listeners that can have a look at this. If you google Aurora borealis,
which means northern lights, and you look for the date January twenty fifth,
nineteen thirty eight, you'll find that something happened on that date and it
was predicted by the prophecies of Fatima. The way Second Secret was written,
it said, when you see a strange light ill sorry sorry, when you
need to see a night illuminated by a strange light. This would be a
sign during the reign of Pope Past the eleven that a worst war is about
to break out. And when you look at that date January twenty fifth,
nineteen thirty eight, Aurora borealis, you'll find that there was a very strange
light that appeared in the sky and it was seen on five different continents In
England. The light was so bright that they thought Windsor Castle was burning down,
and they actually dispatched fire department. They actually dispatched the fire department.
This has written up in the New York Times because that's how right the light
was. They thought that there was a fire at Windsor Castle. So now
what happened. Eight days after this, the Hitler promoted himself to the general
of the German Army, and about thirty four days after that, they marched
into Austria and the annexed it to Germany, and sure enough, the Second
World War it escalated from there. And what's interesting is that that light that
seemed to have come right before the beginning of World War Two, it actually
appeared exactly during the reign of Pope Pious the eleventh. Now what's interesting with
that is that when the prediction was made, that Pope wasn't elected yet,
and as you may know, you know, you don't normally know what name
a pope will take on until they're elected and they choose their own name.
So for them to know the name of the Pope, and to know that
this light would happen during his reign and that that would pre predicate the start
of World War two, it's all very impressive. So I find that's a
very interesting thing with the Fatima prophecies. And maybe another thing can throw in
there quickly if we have time, just so I could probably squeeze it in
there, is that we we also discuss a council that took place during nineteen
sixty it was called the Second Vatican Council, and it revolutionized the church.
It abandoned traditional dogma and it was the beginning of the end, if you
can put it that way, Okay, of the church, and it's collapsed.
So all right, here we go. Sorry, all right, welcome
back. This is Martin Willis. My guest is Paul Stark. We're on
kg R A radio and we're talking about the Vatican and so much more.
We I can't remember exactly where we left off before the last break, but
we were, I believe, talking about the Catholic Church kind of crumbling possibly.
And the current pope is I don't want to say controversial, but a
little bit different than the norm. Wouldn't you say? Yeah, he's actually
very different from the norm. I mean I just read in the news recently
there were photos of him carrying what's called a stag. I don't know if
you're if your viewers or listeners are familiar with that term. It's apparently it's
like a staff that is used by witches or for witchcraft. To see a
pope carrying this kind of thing instead of a crucifix is that it's extremely unusual.
You know, it's you would never see anything like that in the past.
He also there was a time a couple of years back where he was
he met with the president of Bolivia and the President of Bolivia handed him what
was like a crucifix, but it was it was like the Christ crucified on
a on the communist symbol of the hammer and sickle. And you know,
if you're familiar with the history of the Church, it hit the condemned communism
for centuries, and now all of a sudden you had this Francis in the
Vatican accepting this as a gift, which was extremely unusual. So we're seeing
all kinds of things like this. I'll give you one more example. We
could probably go on and on, but back earlier this year, there was
the founder of La Republica, which is one of the largest daily newspapers in
Italy, and that man is an atheist, and he apparently meets with Francis
now and then, and they had a meeting earlier this year, and he
came back from that meeting and he claimed that Francis told him he didn't believe
in the existence of hell. For a pope to say that is if and
I'm saying if he said this, by the way, because we don't have
the proof one way or another. Francis never denied it openly that he said
that, But if he said it, we have a sitting pope that appears
to be claiming things that are contrary to the belief system of the Catholic Faith.
And you know, that's exactly what the word apostasy means. It's exactly
what Father Malachi Martin said that the certain Prophecy of Fatima was about, about
the apostasy in the church. It's exactly what Cardinal Chiapi was warning about in
nineteen ninety five when he said the great apostasy will begin at the top.
So these statements we have from these Vatican insiders, they seem to be exactly
in line now with what we're seeing and witnessing with our very own eyes today.
So these are all very interesting things that are happening. And you know,
it's as you say, it's this particular pope that is very different from
other popes, right right. I just love listening to Art Bell and Father
Malachi. He was very interesting. He was involved in exorcisms and all kinds
of all kinds of things, a very interesting guy. He's passed away a
number of years ago, but yeah, it was always great listening to him.
And so also, while we're on this topic, I'm sure you probably
heard that. I believe it was the pope prior to this, the one
that we retired, which is actually rather unusual too, you know, for
a pope to retire. But I believe he said that it's extraterrestrials are most
likely out there and we should baptize him or something like that. Did you
ever hear any of that? Yeah, you know, I have actually heard
about that, and it was a bit of a departure from, like you
say, what we're accustomed to hearing. I don't remember exactly the terms he
used it. It seemed as though I think he was basically saying that it's
worth investigating, you know, whether there's other life out there. So he
did seem to open the door on that. Yeah, I think he said
that we should count them as our brothers. Yeah, it may be something
like that. I don't remember the exact words banks Race. I think that
was God, wasn't it that too? But I do remember when that came
out that that he said something about, you know, if they are you
know, a creation of life from God, that we should count them as
our brothers and sisters. Race, were you eavesdropping? I was, and
also happened to be Catholic, So I see. I ut all all this
stuff pretty tightly about that. We'll join in anytime. You're welcome, Race,
So well, thank you, and I apologize for that interruption. Oh,
not at all, not at all. Another thing, also, I
think it's fascinating that they have an incredible telescope in their own observatory, and
you know that that whole part is very fascinating to me, that they're actually
interested and looking out there. Yes, yeah, and they have been for
quite a long time now. Um. You know, a lot of people
don't know, but from from my understanding, and I haven't done a lot
of research on this, but I have heard that they did used to look
to the stars for messages from God, from like you know, for insight
or for for understanding. And you know, it would make sense if you
think about it, because we always imagined and understood that God came from the
heavens. That's that's the that's the doctrine. So where do you look when
you're looking to the heavens? You look up, you look up into the
sky, and you know, there has been a fascination with the stars and
within the church for many years, and astrologers used to study the stars and
look for for insights that way. So you know, it's not a new
thing now. I think they're understanding of what they can understand from the stars.
Probably evolved over time, but that isn't anything new, and I'm sure
that the interest is still there. Obviously from the comments from Benedict sixteen,
I had tried to reach out to one of the one of the astronomer priests
at the observatory. I think it's a do I want to say it's in
the United States, right, isn't that they do have one in the United
States somewhere? I believe maybe maybe I got that wrong, but yeah,
I don't know. I couldn't confirm that. Yeah, but um, they're
supposed to have really amazing equipment. And of course, you know, as
as you know, the Vatican is extremely wealthy. I mean, there are
people out there that said, if they just sold their art alone, you
know they have Michelangelo, um, you name it. Um, if they
sold their art alone, they could feed the hungry and the entire world for
I think I forget how many years it is. But you know they're incredibly
rich in real estate and and and art. It's amazing and also historical documents.
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Their museums are are worth uh.
I guess you could say, uh, countless countless millions, if not billions.
I know that they certainly have an enormous wealth. They a lot of
that wealth came from They used to own a lot of land in Italy,
the Vatican and the Church. And what happened at one time when when Italy
was still forming, um, the Vatican gave up a lot of those lands
in in in exchange for payment from from the Italian government, from what I
understand, and it was at that time that they that they ended up with
where they are now, which is a Vatican city. And so you know,
they used to have a wealth in terms of land, and when they
gave up those lands, they converted it into a wealth in in in like
a financial wealth. But they certainly do have an incredible wealth, there's no
question. I have a friend that was making a documentary Roger and nigart Um.
He's actually been on the show. He's a skeptic um a while,
quite a while ago. But he went to the Vatican and spoke to a
bishop trying to get an interview with the pope. And the bishop said to
him, well, anybody, can you know talk to the pope. All
you have to do is, you know, donate twenty thousand dollars for said
ten or fifteen minutes. Wow, He's basically asking for a donation of twenty
thousand dollars just for a few minutes to speak with the pope. Um.
So, I guess that's a that's a good fun drive. Yeah, sure,
I guess we see that in the politics as well. A lot of
people go to fundraisers to see Obama speak. Well, that's true. Yeah,
you know, so it's it seems like it's a it's it's in line.
Yeah. Now, I mean he won't he won't exclude people who I
mean, obviously, if you really need to speak with the pope, it's
made it might be one way you could do it. But he certainly does
speak to people without payment as well. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure.
So I'm just letting you know. The lines are open if anyone wants
to call in. That numbers up on the screen on YouTube. If you're
over at KGr A Radio and you want to call in that phone number six
h three nine six seven four h three. Oh, if you have a
question for our guests, give us a call. So I want to I
just want to skip back just one more time on Fatima. Do you think
there's has anyone attempted to come up with a conclusion about what it really was?
You know? I mean yeah, they just think it's completely like one
of the miracles or whatever, and that's it. Oh, by confusion,
you mean an alternate explanation other than I mean, I mean it's it was
such a weird thing that happened. We have a call coming in, such
a strange thing that happened. Why don't we hold that thought and get back
to it. Sure, Okay, caller, you're on the line. I'm
your first name? And where are you calling from? Hey? Martinus God
from Richmond, Virginia. Hi there, what's the first name again? I
couldn't quite hear it? God? Yeah, Hi, how are you doing?
Welcome to the show. I'm all right. Thanks as a great show,
long time listener. So I got a question for your guests. As
you ever heard of ever read the book Exo Vaticana by Thomas Putman and Chris
Hoyd. Are you able to hear clearly it's a little little bad connection there.
Yeah, yeah, no, I can hear a book called Exo Vaticano
he's talking about, Yeah, Exo Vaticano. Yeah, Chris Own and Thomas
Putnam. Yeah no, I can't hear. I can't say I've read that
book. Yeah, it's it's a really good it's like an encyclopedia. They
also read another book called Petro Romano. I suppose they got the last book.
But the extra Botocata deals with the UFO subjects, and basically, like
you're talking about that, the Vatican has an observatory. I think it's uh
to say. It's in Arizona where they have a telescope, and ironically it's
called Project Lucifer. That's the acronym for the U for the telescope. And
they presupposed that a lot of the sightings of UFOs and fourth were actually like
demonic entities. Yeah, Project Lucifer, which uh, you know is obviously
a very sort of strange name for a project like that. It's it's almost
seems to suggest that they're seeking for Lucy. They're looking for lucifer um,
which kind of goes against uh, you know, their their value system in
the Catholic faith. They're looking for God. They're looking for for God's son,
Jesus Price. So um, it is an odd thing and uh,
it kind of gives you a sense though of where things have gone. And
it should be a bit of a wake up call for people, I think
to you know, to hear about these sort of things. Yeah, they
and they I'm sure I'm left like the heart of the Columns of heat Nick
Redford, he's wrote about it, but they're also mentioned in Network and they
were involved with it as well. I'm not sure with the loose for acronym
actually stands for it, and you know, but yeah, it's it's it's
interesting read. It's like it's a really long book. It's like an encyclopedia,
but it's lots of footnotes and lots of they have we page easy to
go to, like the videos of you know, supported Aliens, which they
say a demonic intods and stuff versus the funduts and bolts. So kind of
interesting because it seems to have sort of a mix of science and h and
spiritual u the whole idea of UFOs. I would say, sort of more
of a scientific request, whereas when you talk about the demonic, you're referring
more to something spiritual, So it seems like it's, uh, it's exploring
both of these, uh, these realms if you want to call him that,
right, Yeah, exactly. I just found it interesting. I'm more
of a enoughs and Bolts down of the guy. But a friend of mine,
Durby onto it's a really really good book if anybody wants it to gular
a chance to read it. Fascinating different, you know, and like we
all think, who know, Yeah, it's it's part of I guess,
the writer's search for answers, investigating and trying to learn what he can.
Hey, thanks for the called talk. All right, thanks Martin Rachel,
all right, thanks a lot. So the line is open if anyone else
wants to ring us and talk to our guests, ask a question. The
number is up on the screen at six oh three nine six seven four h
three. Oh. Please keep in mind if you're watching the show and it's
not live, that number is not working. It's only working during the show.
So I have heard. Also what he's talking about the Lucifer and that
that whole thing. I believe it was probably on coast to coast or something.
I'm not really sure where I heard that, but but it's still interesting
and there's um, you know, just for the Catholic Church to admit that
extraterrestrial life as possible as that's a big change. And you know a lot
of people have said in the UFO field that there could be collapses of religions
and things like that, society, parts of society if we actually find intelligent
life is out there and it's you know, actually I'm not saying just UFO,
but actually saw intelligent life and there was proof of that that everything would
collapse. And I think it's almost like the Catholic churches preparing for that to
happen, because we are certainly knocking on the door of the possibility of that
happening. Yeah. Well, I mean, one thing I think we have
to admit is that there is a lot we don't know. And you know,
our our knowledge of our world in our universe, it evolves over time,
and you know, I think this is all part of our learning about
our environment. And there's obvious there's you know, it makes sense for us
to have a curiosity about what's going on. I mean, the universe is
just so vast it's impossible for us to ever know about all of it,
but it makes for a very interesting, you know, thing to explore and
to try to understand. There's planets and universes that are beyond our imagination,
and the only way that we can learn about them is, you know,
to evil either either use the equipment we have now, send the probes and
satellites, or travel there ourselves. Right right, we have another call,
call or your first name? Where are you're calling from? Hi Martin?
This is Andy from Stratford, Connecticut. Oh, Hi Andy, how are
you good? New? Great? Great? I have a good question I
do. I have to say I missed the much of the first half of
the show. Um, I had another commitment. But I have to ask
your guests Paul what his thoughts are on the h the idea that you know
we're not alone and that there certainly is other intelligent life out there. From
myself as a as a lifelong Catholic with a with a heavy Catholic education and
a father who was in a seminary and a grandfather who nearly became a jesuit.
I know that it only for myself. It only adds to the richness
of the universe and what God may UM is capable of the thought that or
the concept that we're not alone. And I think it's it's silly to think
that anything is impossible. UM. And I'll take your call off the air.
I'll let you guys go, all right, Andy, thanks, thank
you, all right, thank you, good Joe, thank you, Okay,
Thanks? Andy. UM. You know, I don't this is a
theological question, and I don't know that I could say I'm qualified to answer
this, but I can certainly give you my own thoughts on it. And
I would premise this by saying, you know, please don't take this as
theological advice. UM. You know, I've always felt that there there can
be life out there. UM. And it's it's as uh Andy explained,
you know, there there is a richness to God's creation, UM, throughout
the universe. Who are we? You know? How how can we say
that we're the only ones? Necessarily we may be, But it doesn't seem
to be a stretch of the imagination to think that we there may be other
life out there. And if there is, UM, it doesn't disqualify our
understanding of the existence of God and God's laws. So I think that the
two can coexist. Um. But like I say, I'm not qualified from
a theological standpoint. I do think that it always has been intriguing to me,
Uh, this whole world of UFOs and UFO sightings. Something seems to
be going on, and it seems as though there are things being concealed by
us that have sort of leaked leaked out that we're aware of now. And
I do think that it's an interesting thing to explore. For sure. Now,
if you took basically what you just said there a minute ago, and
and you took um God out of the picture, just for um, you
know, some of the people out there that are agnostic or atheist or whatever,
some of the listeners, do you still think that life could intelligent life
could be out there if there wasn't part of say a God creation. Yeah,
from a from a like a purely secular standpoint. Um, you know,
it's interesting some of the stories that we've seen. You know, Area
fifty four is very interesting. Fifty one, oh fifty one Area close,
Yeah, yeah close. I knew was in the fifties there somewhere. Um.
You know, the stories and testimonies we've heard from people, the farmer
who uh you know, found these strange pieces of a of a UFO crash
sighting on his farmland. Uh and and the way it was dealt with.
H. You know, there's a lot of things going on there that are
difficult to explain. Um. And you know, I do think that they
sort of open up the door to uh, you know, something worth looking
into. Something's going on and we have to ask ourselves, well, why
is this being concealed from us? And what is being concealed? Certainly there's
there's there's a truth in there somewhere. And I do think that, you
know, like I was saying earlier to this, this idea that extra extraterrestrial
life exists out there in such a vast universe doesn't seem to be a stretch
of the imagination, right, you know, going back once again, going
back to Fatima, and from what I understand, somehow, you know,
seventy thousand people showed up and it was Do I have this right that it
was at the time a very remote and hard to get to place. Yeah,
I don't know if I would say hard to get to, but remote
for sure. It was in the hills in the past years of Fatima,
Portugal, and the children themselves lived in a very small they don't even call
it a village. It's like a little hamlet of a few, you know,
I guess, a very few residents. And this field that they went
to was even outside of that little hamlet, so it wasn't a remote area
and it was in the hills of the Fatima region for sure. Yeah,
it's remote if you go back in time into nineteen seventeen and you think about
what they had for media, basically news paper. To me, I think
it's fascinating that enough people, that many people from around the world would do
that, and traveling was not easy back in nineteen seventeen. To think about
all those people that showed up and showing up, not knowing if they're going
to have any food or anything, just playing showing up. And so I
think that that part of the story is alone, is incredible because obviously the
word got out about these children, and how how did it get out and
the way it did get out, if you know, you said earlier when
we were talking about that, they weren't believed at first, So what made
people take them serious enough to make that trip and travel. Well, I
would say a couple of things. Number when the curiosity. You know,
if you were told, you know, just maybe thirty miles away from your
home, that these apparitions were taking place, you know, your curiosity would
get the best of you and you would you would feel that, you know,
maybe I should check this out. I remember from reading. I've read
a lot of material on this, and I remembered one of the first women
who came out and was curious about what was going on. She spoke,
I remember there there was some reading a text about her conversation with her husband
and she she her husband asked her, where are you going, and she
said, well, I'm going out to the field to see what's going on.
And he actually laughed at her. He said, you don't actually believe
that the Blessed Virgin is appearing to these children, do you? And her
response was very interesting. She said, well, she said, you know,
I don't know if I believe it, But she said, if somebody
told me that the King was coming, I would go out to see what
was going on. So it's the same with this. I'm being told these
apparitions are taking taking place. I'm going to go check it out and see
what's going on. So I think it's that curiosity that sort of drove the
country to want to come out and see this. The second thing I was
going to mention is that with the media, the newspapers were reporting on this,
and there were major daily newspapers that were also reporting on it. One
of the I think a couple of the publications were based out of Lisbon,
which was which is the capital of Portugal. I believe it's the capital of
Portugal, but it's a major city in the Portugal. And so when you
have major newspapers and small local papers all reporting about what's going on, and
everybody's talking about it, that would drive people as well to come out,
especially when you have it reporting that a miracle is kind there is going to
be a miracle on a specific day, at a specific time. How can
you resist that? And I find that's very interesting. You're you're right when
you're referring to you know, we forget in today's in today's terms, we
forget how how lucky we have things. You know, we forget that we
have the luxury of being able to jump into a car or jump into a
plane. You know, we can fly around the world inside of a day
or two. And you know, with technology, I can send a message
to somebody on the other side of the world within seconds. So you know,
it's it's it's very interesting that you mentioned back then those technologies didn't exist,
and you're absolutely right. You know, for the most part, cars
were, they existed, but not most people didn't have them, right,
Uh, some people had to travel for two days to come out to see
what was going to happen. And you hear about this in the testimonies,
people traveling for two days by foot or by ox cart, and you know,
it goes to show you how strong that curiosity was, or how how
strong people's faith was that they wanted to see what was going to happen.
So, you know, the whole country, I think at the time knew
something was going to happen and they were all very interested in seeing what.
So now you talked about this appearing on the thirteenth of the month, which
is also another bizarre thing because you know, I mean just to be able
to show up every month on the thirteenth, And did things continue after the
October date, you know, like later on, did it skip a month
or was it just playing gone and never came back. Whatever it was.
Whatever it was, that was the end of it in that place with these
apparitions. So it literally occurred from May thirteen to October thirteen. Now Lucia,
who lived many years beyond that, she started speaking about other apparitions.
She ended up becoming a nun, and she spoke about apparitions that she witnessed
while she was in the convent, and so there was something that did continue
with her, but these didn't look her in fatima per se. Now,
I know I have seen an image online. I think anybody could look it
up. But where it does look like some type of object in the sky,
you know, nineteen from nineteen seventeen. Are you familiar with that image?
It almost looks like a figure in the sky or something. Oh figure,
I don't know if it's the same image I'm thinking of. I know
there was something circulating about the miracle of the Sun. Is that the one
you're referring to? Uh? Yes, But there it almost looks like there's
some type of object in the sky. There's definitely something there. Yeah,
and there they see if I'm remembering correctly, it looks like an old photo.
There's I'm trying to think of how to describe it. I think,
I think I know what the image you're referring to, and whoever's been circulating
that image is claiming that this was an image of that was taken during the
Miracle of the Sun. And I did some research on that image and from
what I've learned, it's not an authentic image. It's if I'm remembering correctly,
it says on the bottom that it was released by the Vatican or something.
Okay, um, I just pulled that up on my own, on
my own here on under Google Images. But I don't want to take,
you know, showtime to it. Does it really say oh, yes,
it says something about an observatory in Rome. Oh romano Yes, that's right,
Yes, that's the that's the the official publication of the Vatican. It's
their official newspaper. So it's claimed that that image was published by loserat Romano.
Um. But from my research, I understand that that's not an authentic
image. It's uh, it's not it's not a it's not a photo taken
during this miracle. Now where their photos taking during that It seems with seventy
thousand people, there'd be photographers there. Yeah, and there were. There
were many photographers there, and we know that because if you do a search
on this, you'll see the crowds that were in the field. Um,
why there are no photos of the actual sun miracle? Uh, you know,
as I haven't been able to find an answer for that, But I
have a couple of theories on that. Number One, it's quite possible that
the photographers were so in awe when they were seeing this miracle, or maybe
in fear that it didn't occur to them to take a photo of that.
You know, when you can imagine something that's spectacular happening, you're kind of
not focused on what's you know, on what you're doing or your your function
there, your job to take photos. You're you're maybe just staring in awe
at something. So that's one theory. The other theory I have on it
is that it's quite possible that there were photos taken of it. But if
you can imagine, you know, I don't know if you've ever tried taking
a photo of the sun, but you'd probably haven't washed out image, especially
back then with the cameras they had, they were very primitive cameras. They
were, like, it was the sort of the the early ages of of
the age of photography, right, the cameras that they had back then.
We're not as sophisticated obviously as they are now. It's quite possible they took
photos of the miracle and that none of these photos actually just developed properly,
because I would imagine they might have been completely washed out. They would have
been just big white images, you know, white frames. So that's my
other theory on it. It does seem odd that there wouldn't be any photos
of it, But I think those two theories are plausible explanations for why the
actual miracle wasn't photographed. But certainly the crowds were photographed, and you can
see that the photos. There's there's a number of photos of the crowds.
Do you happen to know if if anyone looked at this situation in a science
way, you know, scientifically, yes, yeah, there are there are
some scientific theories on it. One of them is that this miracle was like
a mass hallucination, so they they like, if you think about it,
the anticipation of the miracle, the fact that it was published in many newspapers,
this idea that many people are coming out with the same expectation. So
the thought behind this all is that they all were anticipating something so much that
they all had this mass hallucination together. So that's one theory that has come
out, I think for me. One of the things that seems to debunk
that is that there were reports from people who weren't there in the field,
people in the nearby village where Lucia was from, who also claimed that they
witnessed the same thing. And so, you know, for them to have
not been a part of this uh this uh and to still have witnessed it
to me that, you know, maybe it wasn't a mass hallucination. There
were also reports that Pious the twelfth saw a very similar miracle when he was
in the Vatican gardens in the nineteen I believe it was in the nineteen fifties,
and he saw it, I think, on three different occasions within about
an eight day period. So the way he describes it apparently is very similar
to the opperations that were witnessed by these people. So again it makes you
wonder, you know's what's going on there, and there is a theological connection
with all of that, So the idea of mass hallucination for me anyway,
it doesn't hold water. Yeah, I've never really understood how a mass hallucination
could actually work. I mean, I can understand anticipation, anticipation for something
to happen, and I have heard, you know, of situations where people
are are actually like skywatching for UFOs and everyone's like, you know, whatever
it is, they're so excited they're going to see something and so maybe it's
a satellite going over and or whatever it is, but they play mold.
I wouldn't exactly call that a mass hallucination, but I would say that because
there are other people excited about seeing something that they may you know, get
carried away. But they're not seeing like a whole object on its own.
They're seeing things that look like they may be something. You know. That's
what sort of experiments as well. You can ask ten people to go out
and look for UFOs, and you know, the chances are, you know,
three or four or half of them. I don't know what to remember
what the statistic is, but a number of them will come back and they'll
claim that they saw something, and you know, it might be something authentic
it might not be, but they're there is something to this idea that you
know, you're you're looking so hard for something that you can convince yourself you've
seen something. And you know, I don't want to discredit those who have
seen things. I think that there's there's, like I mentioned earlier, there's
a lot we don't know about um, but you know, certainly there have
been reports that were not authentic as well. Right right, I think we
just had a caller join us. Call her your first name where you're calling
from. Yes, it's a Sam from Chicago. Oh, Sam, is
it thee Sam, the one and only Sam, the Sam? You bet
you all right? Sam Moronto? Sam Moronto is a friend of mine and
uh he's also a UFO researcher and he actually you did some work on Fatima,
right Sam, Yes, a lot and having a having a having been
brought up in a environment of Catholicism and actually gone to a seminary and graduated
from you know, this is something was very much part of our our family.
Uh, you know, as far as the lore of different interesting things
and the movie I remember the movie came out. My god, it was
great. But what I'm really enjoying Paul's interview. The two of you are
doing a great job. It was great to hear Race's voice jump in there.
That was just took me by surprise. I almost got down on my
knees right then. And I want you to know, Hey, just to
let you Sam, You're welcome to say on the rest of the show as
far as I'm concerned. Uh, Sam's a great guy, and I'm sure
he's got a lot to talk about this, so we're going to close the
lines for the rest of the show. They had plenty of time to call
in. Uh. But anyway, Sam, you got something to add to
what he's saying or yes. Unfortunately, Paul I came in a little bit
late on. I'm listening to the show and I and I you know,
except please my apology. The thing was with the area that that fantomas actually
in. Wasn't it referred to as being something in reference to a land of
light? As far as the Roman name given to it. I don't know
about land of light, but as you may know, Portugal is referred to
as the land of Holy Mary in Portuguese. They call it later de Santa
Maria, so it's it's it's had a long history as being recognized as a
as a land that has a rich history of devotion toward the blessed Virgin.
Right. Oh, absolutely, But I think that very that very area has
a reference to being uh to a land of that very vicinity around the provincia
or that area. Um, it's an old Roman thing that I stumbled across
years ago. But if you as, if I find it, I'll send
it to you. Yeah. The other thing was, it's interesting where you
were talking about the observatory and something to the effect of the Luciferian or something
about Lucifer, who is of course in Latin, that lucifer means the bringer
of light. That's very interesting to me at least. Wow. Yeah,
that's right now. Oh sorry, I'll oh no, no, no problem,
the bringer of light. And here we are talking about a subject and
I again, I was drawing in this scenario of this area of light and
then seeing this illumination at during a period of time when they had so much
social strife, and I don't know if you had a chance to get into
some of the labor issues going on at the time, Communism, World War
One, the wars they were having trying to maintain their their their colonies in
Africa. They had a lot of issues. So when they had this going
on, it was a perfect It was the perfect scenario, the perfect storm
for them to make use of it and turn it in their political both for
the church and the church was losing property at that time, as I recall,
in Portugal, and the state was taking it back and there were issues.
They were having confrontations with the church, so Catholicism was on the line.
The threat of socialism and communism was also something very threatening, and this
was the perfect storm for them, was it not. Yes, yeah,
you're absolutely right on that. At the time, communism was spreading, uh,
Secularism was established and I even remembered reading back back in that time.
Lisbon was considered one of the most secular cities in the world, and this
threat was taking over all of Portugal. Religious freedom was being suppressed. They
they had what they called the law of separation, which meant that, you
know, religion had had no um, no place in public, in especially
in government obviously, but also even in public, and they could get in
a lot of trouble. They were there was a point where they could get
in trouble just for expressing their faith openly, and so there was a perfect
storm at the time. It's very interesting that this all unfolded the whole prophecy
of Fatima at that time. And you know, it's interesting because one of
the things we get into in the film The Vatican Deception is is in the
Third Secret of Fatima, there's we do have a line of text that was
published by the Vatican. It says in Portugal, the dogma of the faith
will always be preserved, etc. And it seems to be a reference to
this preservation of Catholic dogma in Portugal. And you know, in this time
when you're speaking of in nineteen seventeen, where the Catholic Faith was under under
attack by these communist forces, it would have seemed like it would have been
difficult for the Catholic Faith to overcome this. And yet when Fatima came along,
it really had a very powerful renewal of faith among the people, and
it brought back to their faith beyond what could have been expected or imagined.
So, you know, like you say, it overturned all of that.
It's some people almost referred to was a miracle for it to have overturned.
There were some there's the Freemasons as well as you know the mayor of they
call him the magistrate or the tinsmith of Fatima. He was a known Freemason.
He'd belonged to a local lodge there and he was against the people coming
out in the field and praying. He didn't want these people to come out
and he didn't want pilgrimages to this location where the children were saying that they
saw the Blessed Virgin. And at one common point they built a small chapel
there and it was bombed. They blew the roof off of it, and
there's pictures if you look at it for it on the internet, you'll find
these photos of this chapel that had been bombed, and they say that it
was the Masons that bombed it because they were trying to discourage people from from
coming out there. But their faith in what happened there was just so powerful.
There was nothing they could do to stop it. It seemed like whatever
they did, it would just bring more people out. And then the numbers
are just staggering to this day. If you go out there in Fatima and
you try to visit that place on any of the thirteenth from May to October,
but especially May thirteen, and especially October thirteen, you'll see hundreds of
thousands of people. Yeah, it's wow, you know. So it's really
turned this place into something that you could never have imagined a hundred years ago.
Wow, Hey we have we have five minutes left. Sam, I'd
like to ask you, you're sure what your thoughts are on You mentioned that
you had like a Catholic background or whatever, vocher thoughts on this incidents or
these incidents as far as the UFO side of it compared to the religious side
of it, I personally look at it again, you know how it is.
I don't believe. I'm an investigative researcher and that's it. And so
as far as a dogma or whatever, it would have to fall in line.
But you know the thing here is when we're doing investigative research, the
evidence has to speak for itself. And what Paul has brought up and other
researchers too, this was a spectacle seen by seventy thousand plus people, some
say thirty thousand, who cares. It was a volume of people, all
of which had multiple agendas for coming out, some being skeptical, just coming
out to thinking they're a bunch of idiots others that I think that the example,
well, if the king, that was a very good example. If
the king was coming to town, wouldn't you come out and look at that?
Is very good. I think that sound for the majority of the people.
The other ones were, of course devout religious people. They're coming out
there thinking you're to see the blessed Virgin Mary. The other thing was there
were some esoteric groups in the area who during that time, ran some articles
in the newspapers talking about some special event taking place on October thirteenth. Do
you recall in your research reading about that, Paul you referring to at the
time in nineteen seventeen, Yes, well I do remember. Like I mean,
there were certainly events related to the church calendar that they observed and celebrated.
But that's not what you're referring to to. No, No, there
these are known esoteric groups that had a feeling that something was going to happen
October thirteenth, and they actually had articles in the newspapers talking about a big
event and it was to take place in Phantom in that area. But getting
back to your original and if you don't mind the thing here is the religious
aspect. If the thing here is, we don't have to even tear it
apart. Something transpired, something absolutely genuine. And this is where we could
take the skeptic to task and say, hey, the evidence is there.
There's even physical trace evidence as they're not. The ground was dry. There
were people experiencing similar phenomena, the buzzing of insects for bees, to recall
that, yes, there was like for example, I remembered, you know,
people were listening to see if they could hear what the blessed Virgin was
saying. And some people reported that they could hear almost like a tiny voice,
as though as though somebody was speaking in in a jar, or like
very faintly, or like a bee buzzing in a jar, or something to
that effect. So there were people and that was the more the more distinct
was closer, and it all falls in line with but sort a certain range
of microwaves. The same thing that the people being dried, the ground being
dried after they had rained for what was two days or it was quite a
bit of rain and they were soaked, and here redie was dried. These
are events. This is physical trace evidence people being cured of certain ailments,
which could fall in line with certain the effect of certain microwaves or certain energies
affecting you. It could could relieve some some pain or distress, possibly even
curing people. Who knows. The bottom line is there's enough physical trace evidence.
There are enough witnesses there, some of which who didn't want to come
there to accept anything as being plausible, and yet they experience it themselves.
The bottom line is the event did take place. It is not a hallucination.
Hallucinations don't give off physical evidence. I mean really, and that's so
absurd. But yet the skeptics will come out. They're not even call them
skeptics, just downright cynics. Something took place. Now, if I want
to put it into the realm of something that has to do with religion,
I have no clue. Maybe not, I'd say it's outside the scope of
anything we could really put our finger on and say, oh, it's absolutely
this. It doesn't sound like the conventional UFO case in its entirety. Like
you were talking about the religious aspects, the the praying or the insistence of
having to say the rosary. Do you remember that. Yeah, there's significance
of that that's right. In the first apparition, actually the only two.
And see, this is why I don't think this is all a coincidence.
I think these things happened so that we could look at it and we can
dissect it and get an understanding from it. When the first apparition happened,
the two girls were able to see the Blessed Virgin, but the cousin,
the young boy, Francisco, he couldn't see it, and so he was
asking, what are you looking at? What's going on? And so what
happened was Lucia was told by the blessed Virgin that if Francisco starts to say
the rosary, that she'll be able to see her also, and so he
that's what he did. He started praying a rosary, and she's the blessed
Virgin started to appear to him as well. So there's there's these religious,
uh you know, aspects to it that you can't really ignore. You know,
a UFO would not have asked for that sort of thing. Right we
are, I'm sorry, we are out of time here. So hey,
thank you so much, beyond hey, thank you always a pleasure job.
We'll be talking very much. Okay, thank you gentlemen. All right,
all right, Paul, thanks so much, Paul. And so the Vatican
movie dot com something like that, right, your website, the Vatican Deception
dot com. Sorry, Vatican Deception that's it. Yes, all right,
thanks so much, and people can get in contact with you that that way,
I believe I did. All right, take care, great, Thank
you very much. Thank you. All right, So thanks so much for
listening, and we're going to be back next week with our guests Scott du
Shane, and we'll be talking about living UFOs. It's a very sort of
organic type UFOs. It's really quite a fascinating side of that story. So
all right, I want to thank the people that help out with the show,
Race for chiming in and helping out, and also Alejandro and our guests,
of course, I want to thank them all and thank you the listener.
We'll be back next week, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.