Anything to Sparking Mafia to podcast with your host to Abernatha let on, What
Up? What Up? Everybody? Welcome to an episode of the Sparky Mafia
Podcast. My name is Paul Abernanthy, your host of the Sparky Mafia podcast,
and thanks for joining me today on this episode. I like to say
this is the pre episode. This is the precursor to a live stream that
we're doing later on today and it pertains to a restructuring of the National Electrical
Code and I wanted to address some things. And you know, when I
do this at the Sparky Mafia Podcast, I can be very candid, right
and I can just you know, say things how I want to say it.
And again I'll be a little more diplomatic obviously on my normal stream,
but you know what, hey, this is the uh you know, this
is my time on the Sparky Mafia, So I get to to say whatever
I want to say. You better watch what you say now. I can
say whatever I want. It doesn't really matter on this show. So let's
talk a little bit. Because there are people that post things over on TikTok
and other social media as Electricians have been doing things for years and they're very
resistant to change. And I'm not gonna lie I was one of them.
Okay, I was one of those that were resistant to change. I'm like,
why do we need to change? I don't know enough about it.
Again, it was a lot of info all of a sudden, you're gonna
hear, whoa, We're gonna change the NEEC. I make a living on
the NEC. I mean you electricians make a living on it too, right,
because you use it in your everyday work. But you know, I'm
sitting here thinking, why, you know, don't change this thing. Don't
incorporate this new structure. It's going to confuse And I'm used to quoting four
thirty for motors and two fifty team for feeders and two twenty for calculations.
I'm used to doing that. Why would you want to just totally f it
up? Well, I had the distinct pleasure. And again, everybody knows
I don't always see eye to eye with certain things, and you know in
the industry, and and I'm very vocal on that, and this is one
of those that I was like, I don't know, I don't I don't
know that I'm on board with this change. Why would you want to screw
with people. Then I got to thinking about it, and then I actually,
and this is always the case, right when you attend something and somebody
knows the reason why, right. You get there and somebody knows the reason
why, right, So you're like, Okay, I get it. You
still got to convince me. And there's still some loose ends that I'll talk
about during our you know, live stream, but and I'm I'm sure that
NFPA will address it or other people that are in the know, I will
address it. And you know, but once you hear why they're doing it,
it makes sense. And just to give some things about it that you
know, when we're used to the NEEC and we're talking about the main eight
chapter structure, it's gone through a dramatic changes and adding new articles that are
kind of creating things like bloatwear inside of these specific chapters that are really not
modernized for today's technology that's coming along, whether it's the energy technology, wireless
technology, all types of new infrastructure that's coming and we're trying to take it
and put it in chapters that have been around since nineteen thirty seven and really
didn't have the technology. And so we're trying to slide it in and people
argue about not being very friendly, document not easy to maneuver all this kind
of stuff. Yet now there, we're going to change it and try to
make it a little more logical, but we still have the haters or whatever
that says it's no need to change. It's going to make it hard for
everybody. It's really not. So hear me out. Hear me out,
and we're gonna talk about this tonight in the live stream, but I just
want to do a precursor to that and kind of talk about things from my
chest because I was against this. I was outspoken. I mean, I
gave it the benefit of the doubt. I think me and Schwartzey did a
podcast or whatever where we talked about it, and we didn't understand it.
There was things that we're like, why would you do this? Why would
you because there were things that were wrong with the original you know concept.
And to NFPA's credit, they listen and they've made changes. They let the
stakeholders like NIEMA and other manufacturers and other people, you know, individuals that
serve on different pandemic. They listened to the input. And what we've got
is that they're making involving changes. They know that there was things that weren't
perfect. So this is what we're trying to look at is it's a lot
of undertaking of work that's going to take place, and it's starting now.
So people ask me. The very first thing before I get into some of
this talking about it is people say to me, Paul, why the hell
are we worrying about it now? This is twenty twenty nine. Well,
if you wait until twenty twenty nine, that's a published date, that's when
it's out. So we're working on the twenty twenty six right now, and
at the end of the twenty twenty six inside of the codebook, you're going
to have an example of the new structure that's going to be in place for
the twenty twenty nine. So that means that any public inputs or whatnot that's
going to be given after the twenty twenty six. In other words, the
next opportunity for you to make public inputs because we're already past that boat.
That boat is sailed now for twenty twenty six. Now you can just do
public comments. So the next opportunity that you and I have to change things
in the code it's not going to be until the twenty twenty nine. And
remember we start working on the twenty twenty nine about a year after the twenty
twenty six drops, so about twenty twenty seven. So in the twenty twenty
sixth edition when it comes out, there's going to be a sample of what
the twenty twenty nine structure is going to look like. So in order to
make sure that that is done, you got to do it now so that
it is ready to be inside of the twenty And there's a lot of things
that have to be taken into consideration. So the good thing about NFPA,
and it's what I have said before, unlike other type of standards development organizations,
NFPA is asbout as transparent as you can get. I get it.
People out there say it's not and whatever, and you know, they can,
you know, do all this and that, but I mean, at
the end of the day, it's about the best system we have. And
so they're giving the stakeholders an opportunity to give comment, give suggestions, you
know, and if they're if they're suggestions, they have merit. And I'm
gonna be honest with you, they did listen to some of the stuff that
I submitted, others submitted to NIMA, and then NIMA submitted it members excuse
me, admit it submitted it to n FPA. And I know that this
took place because I remember when it first came out versus what was presented to
me at the first draft meeting. It looked different, and so in ours.
It was being presented to us UH and by people from the correlating Committee.
And when they did that, it it made more sense. I was
like, Okay, well, I see where they're going now, I see
what their vision is. At first, I thought it was just, you
know, a one man's mission to have a legacy. I mean, I'm
honest with you. I was like that. I was like, okay,
there's a certain individual who want this to be his legacy. But that was
wrong of me. That was again Paul's negativeness on this, because now that
I step back and I look at it, and I'm like, it takes
visionary thought to see that our technology in our industry is changing so much.
I mean, look at this, the equipment we have now, the interaction,
the wireless, everything that we do, the new fault managed type of
I mean, everything is evolving. So rapidly now that a structure that was
created in nineteen thirty seven, that all we're doing is trying to drop things
in and where we think it needs to be. It's not adequate for the
future, so think of it this way. But I'll kind of talk about
what's changed over the last you know, eighty plus years, and again we'll
talk about this near in the live stream, but I'm just kind of doing
a recursor here to kind of tell you what it is. You can choose
whether you want to join me tonight or not. And I'm feeling under the
weather today, so bear with me. I woke up sick as a dog,
so I'm feeling a little better, but I have a headache. So
I'm going to try to get through this and hopefully I'll be better by the
stream tonight. If you think about the changing or rapidly changing it's been,
nineteen thirty seven is when the current structure that we have with the eight chapters
came about. And when you think about that, and of course Article ninety
wasn't introduced until nineteen fifty nine edition, so that's even later, so we
didn't really have an introduction, okay, and to you know, formally Article
ninety until nineteen fifty nine, so some years, some years later, you
know, in our lifetime, in my lifetime, I was not around in
nineteen thirty seven. So when we make this structural change and I feel I'm
a part of it. I teach the code, I've written, books,
I've done, I'm a part of this industry in my life cycle. Okay,
I have given to the industry. You've given to the industry. Why
is this a big deal? Because life has little milestones and then we die.
I mean, let's face it, we die wherever you believe you go.
It doesn't matter. We're all going to die. So you know,
people get awards, people get this and that, and they are nice.
But having the opportunity to be involved in a structuring of a document, and
that's why I love doing public inputs and because I feel like I'm part of
that document. That's why I enjoyed serving on the code making panels for a
link I did. I feel like I'm giving back to the document. Now.
Obviously, if you're not on the panels, you're going forward. Your
name will come out, but it doesn't matter. The work you did lives
on, so you most of you that are listening to this were not around
in nineteen thirty seven, And if you were born in nineteen thirty seven,
it's chances are you a toddler. You're having nothing to do with the NEEC.
So there's nobody living today that I can't aware of that were involved in
the first development of the structure that we have now, Nobody that I know
of that would be living. So if you think of it that way,
this is your opportunity to have something that's restructured that you at least give your
input, whether they take it or not, you're involved in it. If
you say you don't give a shit, then you really don't give a shit.
And to be honest with you, to the industry, you don't matter.
Just go do your work, get your paycheck, go home. You
don't matter. But if you use the NEC as part of your career,
it's the document that your minimum safety standards based on, then it's this is
a big deal now, not because we're changing the technical Okay, so that's
another misconception. It's not a change of the technical data. That process is
still going to be the same. You're still going to put public inputs and
change the code, and you need to be involved. This is a structural
change. Now, I had people that commented on other people's stuff on TikTok,
which is a worst platform, but they commented and said that this is
not a structural change. This is not the first time since nineteen thirty.
They did it in twenty two thousand and two, they did it in two
thousand and five, they did it in two thousand and eight. That is
a lie. That's not true. They might have rewritten an article for clarity.
They might have moved things around or restructured a specific article, but not
the entire document. This is a first, and it's doing it during my
lifetime, and so chances are there'll be another thirty forty to fifty years,
sixty eighty, one hundred years before somebody else thinks of changing it again.
So if we do it right this time, and we make it in a
way that it allows newer and evolving technologies, things that we didn't know existed
back in the thirties, much less the forties, fifties, sixties, and
seventies or even eighties, to create logical locations for things to go to make
it easier to explain, easier to navigate. So let's kind of talk about
some of the things. So one of the things that is important to remember,
take chapter four. Chapter four had ten articles, that's it in nineteen
thirty seven. Okay, it has twenty two articles now in the twenty twenty
three. So it meant that we added twelve new articles and we had to
try to fit them nice and neatly inside of a chapter four that was originally
established in nineteen thirty seven. It's grown, folks, and maybe everything that
we dump in chapter four really shouldn't be in chapter four with other things.
That causes confusion, right, Okay, what about chapter five? Chapter five
had five articles, folks, in nineteen thirty seven. Now in the twenty
twenty three edition of the National Electric Code has twenty seven articles. That's chapter
five, folks, that's within five, six and seven. These are special
occupancies, special equipment, things like that that, to be honest with you
today, is not so damn special. It's every day. It's the norm.
So why confuse people and call it special anything. It's the norm.
Okay, So twenty seven articles in the current twenty twenty three versus five back
when this structure was created in nineteen thirty seven. That is reduction of articles,
and it has a lot to do with expanding and changing technology and how
we use things and we learn about things that we didn't know was a problem.
We're always evolving. Okay, So what about chapter six. It was
seven articles in nineteen thirty seven, it's twenty seven articles in the twenty twenty
three. Again, a major dump of twenty new articles in that period of
time. And there's nothing to say that that's gonna stop, because technology now
is rapidly changing, with people like Elon Musk and and you know who's a
forward thinker and coming up with technologies and things, and all the manufacturers now
are getting to the point where the technology is getting amazing, whether it's wireless.
You know, Tesla's gonna roll back around in his grave and go,
dude, I talked about all these things many years ago, and now y'all
are acting like it's the latest thing since sliced bread. I was talking about
that decade ago, well, nine decade century ago, Okay, So yeah,
it'd be nice if Tesla was around a decade ago, then I would
have known him, right, So think about it. It's ever evolving.
Okay. Well, what about chapter seven? It was four articles in nineteen
thirty seven. It's fifteen articles now in the twenty twenty three NEC. So
every time something happened, do we say, okay, well let's just drop
it in chapter seven, let's just drop it in there? Is that where
it needs to go. I don't know, this is just let's just drop
it in there. Okay. Chapter eight has grown from two articles in nineteen
thirty seven to six articles in the twenty twenty three. Now chapter eight with
communications and network power broad band and the premise power broad bands and all this
two new technology that are coming. Look for that to explode, and what
are we going to do? Just drop them neatly in this one bucket.
It just causes confusion for the installer. So while people out there are saying,
look, I am, what's going to happen with people that are,
you know, learning the structure of the NEC now for an exam. But
that's okay, learn what you need to have now to pass your exam the
twenty twenty nine And even though we're talking about developing the structure now, the
technical stuff's not going to change except for when people submit the normal code development
stuff every three years. This is a structural change, so it's a totally
different thing. So if you're not involved in doing the technical stuff, but
you're an educator, you're a teacher or somebody, this is your time to
have be vocal and let NFPA know your thoughts on the structure, good or
bad. Okay, Now, I would not get nasty and send them something
and say this is stupid, because you know, that's like a technical thing.
It's no substantiation for it. They're greater, probably greater minds than you
or I are looking at this and saying, you know what we need to
evolve, So think about it that way. Now. One of the important
things that NFPA put out was a white paper from the Correlating Committee, and
I think one of the most important aspects of it, and I'm going to
read it to you, is something that comes directly from NFPA, and it
comes directly from the Correlating Committee. It says the structure of the NEC plays
a critical role for person personnel in learning, understanding, applying, and enforcing
the requirements established within this regulatory code. While the current structure, first introduced
in nineteen thirty seven, has provided tremendous success and stability and continues to be
used by engineers, contractors, electricians, and training programs. The ability to
be used by engineers excuse me, the ability to efficiently learn and quickly apply
the and inspects advanced technologies and uniquely configured electrical systems is a challenge for all
electrical professionals. The existing ANYC structure needs modernization to continue to support the advanced
electrical infrastructure configurations and technology technological advancements. Therefore, it is imperative that the
electrical industry actively pursue a revived ANYCA organizational structure to support ease of learning,
understanding, and applying the NEC safety provisions in a rapidly advancing new energy landscape
period. That is a quote directly from the National Electrical Code Correlating Committee white
paper titled keeping the NEC Relevant? Is now the time for modernization? If
not now, when with the And I'm a big believer that this technology uh
that came out by Vault Server, this class four fault managed systems, and
and all of the stuff wrapped around that, and the new wireless technologies that
are coming, I'm we have to do it now. We have to we
have to do it now. Why kick the can down the road. So
the important thing for me is that we're not changing the technical part of this,
right, And that's where everybody's kind of hung up on. Everybody want
that that is negative. And I was there too, her saying, well,
dude, I'm used to remembering four thirty four motors and two fifty one
twenty two for equipment, ground and conductor sizing, and I'm used to that.
By the way, two fifty is not going to change. Okay,
it's it's still going to be two fifty the way it currently is being proposed,
but there are other articles could change. And if that's the case,
then so what We'll have to learn it. People like me will do videos
on it and training on it. You'll learn about it, you'll start to
absorb it, and then it'll be old hat for you. Trust me,
we can all adapt. Electricians are the brightest in the world. You will
adapt, you will learn. But I think that you'll see that it's time
to stop just dropping stuff in buckets everywhere and hoping that it's in the right
place. This is the time. This is the chance that we have in
your lifetime, in your lifetime to be involved and have an opportunity to have
input. So this brings me to why I'm doing the live stream. Obviously,
NFPA is way more qualified to do a live stream than me on this
topic. Okay, way more qualified than me. So why am I doing
it? Well? First of all, you know, I have a little
bit of responsibility to people I educate. And secondly, everybody knows that that
I was kind of against this change the beginning. I was, you know,
verbally like I don't know, I don't know, is this somebody's legacy?
You know, kind of normal, you know, Paul. And then
I gave the benefit of the doubt to actually listen, not sit back with
my arms crossed being stubborn. At the Correlating committee, I got to hear
twice because I'm on code panel five and seventeen, so we had a presentation
on both and so I kind of went in there and I'm open mind and
I'm looking at it and I'm just kind of thinking. And I had this
epiphany as I'm sitting there, and I'm thinking, you know what, this
makes sense. How many times if we had to just jostle things around and
drop them here and there, and it may not have been perfect and whatnot,
And let's go on and have a stab at it and possibly get a
new structure that is easier to understand. That positions things a little easier,
creates a hierarchy that's a little clear for educators things like that. The technical
part is that's you know, that's gonna be no different than it normally is.
So we're not we're not mucking around with the technical aspects of it.
So again, it's not like ooh NFPA is creating something that's going to cause
more for the manufacturers. Stop that crap, please just stop it, grow
up. That's not what this is about. This is a fundamental restructuring that
has not taken place since the structure was put in place in nineteen thirty seven.
It's going to be the probably the only time in any of you listeners
lifetime where you're going to have an entire wide, sweeping structural change, and
this is your chance to be involved in it. Why wouldn't you want to
do it? As much as you gripe about the NEC, is it not
interlinked and intertwined with your daily activity as an electrician? Is it not interlinked
with when you're studying for the code you're using the NEC? This is an
important document. So you have an opportunity to voice your opinion, give your
comments, make your suggestions, keep your negative ninni crap to yourself, because
let me tell you what this is happening, whether you like it or not.
Don't think that you have enough say that you can vote this now you
cannot. Now you can submit public inputs, public comments, justify get it
in the code. But when it comes to the structure, this is totally
under the control of NFPA. It's their document, folks, it's theirs.
You have input on technical you have input on the different things. But when
it comes to the structure of the code, NFPA, this ship has left
the dock, folks. This is the oasis of the seas. It is
already out to the ocean. What the NFPA is doing is saying that you
have an opportunity to comment. Because this is not written in so much the
ink is still wet here. You can still make changes, we can still
make suggestions, and collectively, our minds are great. Collectively, let's all
come together in industry, put your differences aside. Let's all come together and
again make this any c what we want it to be. Now we can't
take the technical and dumb it down so that a kindergartener can read it.
That's not the intent of the code. It's not an installation manual. But
we can do things to make it flow better, more logical. Will we
get it? Maybe maybe we won't get it right on the first shot.
I know, I'm you know. Maybe we will, But the new structure
is set up in a way that it's going to be easily modified as we
go forward, and it's going to be a little more logical to the flow.
So with that said, hopefully you join me tonight this is February eighth.
If you miss the live stream at eight pm, then you can always
listen to the rebroadcast and then in the comments you can make comments on what
you want to send to n f p A. I will make sure that
they get it. They will get suggestions directly, uh to the individuals that
that are dedicated to this directly, and trust me, they'll go to the
about It is just as high as you can get in the technical aspect of
the NEC so as far as structurally, it will go to the people that
it needs to go to. And Nephew's post stupid crap obviously that's not gonna
happen. I'll probably block you. But at the end of the day,
if you really care, and if you don't care, screw you. You
don't need to be involved. Don't even join the live stream. If you
don't care, then just don't care, you know what I'm saying. All
Right, folks, that's what we've got so join me February eighth, eight
pm Central Time over on my YouTube channel YouTube dot com forward slash master the
NEC. It actually is going to be all my social media channels that at
Master the NEC, So if you want to listen to the rebroadcast, it'll
be there as well, So check it out, folks. I hope to
see you at the live stream. Take care, God bless and let's get
it done. You've been listening to Sparky Mafia the podcast with your host Paul
Abernathy. We'll catch you next time.