WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.560 --> 00:00:15.439 Post you look at question, don't touch down side rushers, cony, don't 2 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:28.320 jumps down sideway downs say done, Don just or dusts try t y ty 3 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:44.039 n n us right everybody that Don said the sky side the stock transiskys the 4 00:00:44.119 --> 00:01:57.239 sky to sky Man T. Scott, May twenty eight, twenty fifteen. 5 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:02.439 The Ocelli Effect is live on uc why TV Radio. Thank you for deciding 6 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:08.360 to tune in utilizing your final slab of choice using your Apple pblical application of 7 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:16.840 choice. Thanks do appreciate it. Of course we are you know, we 8 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:23.199 are sort of at home at ucy dot TV slash te and this is one 9 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:24.919 of those nights. I'll tell you it throws me off a little bit because 10 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:30.759 the introduction to the show is a lot louder and more obnoxious in my headphones 11 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:34.919 than it is for you guys. So think about that for a minute when 12 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:39.719 you want to complain about it. Anyway, tonight, what we're gonna do 13 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:46.719 is in the series with the whole you know, JFK myths, getting rid 14 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:51.680 of the assassination myths, we have mainly attacked all of the really bad not 15 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:55.560 all. Let me correct myself real quick. All it is endless. The 16 00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:00.599 amount of bad conspiracy stuff out there. But night, we're gonna start off 17 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:09.400 focusing on the problem with the alleged official story, so everybody can stop complaining 18 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:16.199 that all I did was attack other conspiracy theory type oriented individuals. Now we're 19 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:21.240 going to do it the other way, and there's a reason for it. 20 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.599 Of course, the myths do wind up coming fast and furious from all sides. 21 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:29.599 So let's try and get some things straight. And I got some really 22 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.439 interesting guys to do this with me tonight, and I'm real happy because, 23 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:36.360 first of all, I've got, well, anybody who listens to my show 24 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:39.960 regularly knows, Carmine Sabistano from Anneapolis media group. How you doing tonight, 25 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:44.439 Carmine? Pretty good? Chuck? How are you doing tonight? All right? 26 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:49.800 And of course this makes me especially happy. I got Rob Clark with 27 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:54.960 us from the Lone Gunman podcast. How you doing, brother good? Chuck? 28 00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:00.639 How are you all right? And we're gonna add Charles Cliff in just 29 00:04:00.759 --> 00:04:06.680 a moment. Hm, I gotta grab him myself, but we're gonna have 30 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:12.759 Charles Cliff and this makes it a very interesting roundtable, gentlemen, So real 31 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:18.839 happy about this. Let's see now and the blind guy fiddles with the skype. 32 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:27.680 Let's see if Charles is there all right, maybe maybe not. Either 33 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.639 way, we can begin to move forward and Charles can add in at a 34 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:35.959 later time. So guys, like I said, we've been through this. 35 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:39.920 Carmine and I anyway have been through this a lot. And of course this 36 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:44.079 is what you spend a lot of time on rob is debunking the conspiracy oriented 37 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:48.480 stuff. But we're gonna start off with the alleged official story. So let's 38 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:51.240 give everybody kind of an idea what that is to start with, right, 39 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:57.040 this is the Oswald is the lone gunman. Which again, you know, 40 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:59.920 the more I think about the name of your podcast, brother, the more 41 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:08.600 I like it because you are alone. Sorry, go ahead, I was 42 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:13.319 just saying many different meanings exactly. That's the thing is, depending on your 43 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:16.199 mood, it can go in a lot of different directions. But see, 44 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:20.319 that's the whole thing is when it comes to the first official explanation, because 45 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:26.959 realize there's actually two official government explanations for the JFK assassination, one being that 46 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:30.439 we have a loan gunman, a loan assassin, a loan nut, and 47 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:32.360 the other being we do still have a loan nut, but he probably didn't 48 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:36.399 do it alone. Kind of two different meanings. But we're going to focus 49 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:45.040 on the whole Oswald acting alone absolutely kind of thing tonight. Oh boy, 50 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:47.360 and Charles, you're with us? Now? I am with you? Yes, 51 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:51.560 ah, Charles Cliff good. All right. Now we've got the four 52 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:58.560 which is what I wanted. All right, So let's break it down for 53 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:02.040 everybody. Look, here's the deal, right, You've got Oswald who is 54 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:06.759 in the book depository, who allegedly fires three shots, who scores at least 55 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:14.279 two shots on Kennedy, killing him, wounding Governor Connolly, then fleeing from 56 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:18.639 the scene, and allegedly killing Officer JD. Tippett. This is the guy 57 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:23.240 that they arrested a little while later in a movie theater after he fled the 58 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:26.879 scene, went and retrieved a handgun. And you know, there's a whole 59 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:30.120 lot of details in between. And I'm sure that anybody who wants to familiarize 60 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:34.759 themselves with this, can, you know, just go to their on demand 61 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:39.519 services with their cable company and probably find something from the Discovery Channel, the 62 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:46.079 History Channel or online or wherever else, and you'll find the whole Oswald lone 63 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:49.160 nut scenario played out one hundred different ways, Am I correct? Guys? 64 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:56.920 Yeah, Oh, there's always no shortage of people who want to tell you 65 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:01.120 that's what happened. Absolutely, absolutely, But we're going to kind of reverse 66 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:05.879 engineer this a little bit. Okay, let's just imagine for a moment that 67 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:10.920 you know, we're coming into this completely uneducated, and we want to start 68 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:15.279 to assemble, start to assemble what you might do. And what's the typical 69 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:17.360 thing they talk about with a criminal case where you have a murder, you 70 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:23.160 have a wounding, you have an assassination of a human being in broad daylight. 71 00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:27.240 But you know, what is it that they would do, Well, 72 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:30.480 they first come up with a suspect, and they would you know, end 73 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:34.800 up by investigating other aspects of the crime. They would lead themselves to a 74 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:40.079 suspect, and then when they want to prosecute them, they would which Oswald 75 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:46.120 was never actually prosecuted. Special note for the uneducated out there, but oh 76 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:49.360 boy, convicted in the public's mind, convicted by the Warrant Commission, you 77 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:56.399 know, in absentia, posthumously whatever. Right, let's begin with the whole 78 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:01.160 theory of what's means, you know, motive and opportunity. We always hear 79 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:05.879 that phrase, don't we. I want to make sure to give the other 80 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:09.279 gentleman a chance to tuck. You know, I'll talk to the whole episode 81 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.879 if we can. Well, right, I mean, Rob, I want 82 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.879 to hear your commentary on this, because, like I said, you know, 83 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.839 Carmine's been on. We could go back and forth and just do this 84 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:22.120 ourselves, but I want to get your commentary on this. Well. The 85 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:30.399 first thing I'll address is motive. That's a big, big problem for moon 86 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:33.039 nutters, and it was a big, big problem for the Warren Commission. 87 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:37.240 You know, I had a couple of loon numbers on the show, and 88 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:41.960 none of them had a very good answer when I asked them, you know, 89 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:46.679 what could possibly be the motive? You know, and none of them 90 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:50.759 has come up with a very good answer, and needed did the war Commission. 91 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.879 Well, yeah, isn't that? The reality is that even the Warren 92 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:03.600 Commission themselves could not properly demonstrate a motive for Oswald. There is no proper 93 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:07.799 motive. There's sort of a generalized understanding that he's supposed to be, you 94 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:13.080 know, a communist, somebody who is a red type sympathizer and that's really 95 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.759 commensurate with the time, you know, because that was easy to sort of 96 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:20.480 seize upon public opinion and say, yeah, that guy's guilty and whatever else. 97 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:24.679 But the reality is, even the Warren Commission doesn't present a clear motive 98 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:33.000 for the crime, do they No, I don't think they do. I 99 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:35.559 agree with Rob and what you said. And now I'm sure Charles has something 100 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.879 to say about it as well. When once Charles says something about it, 101 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:45.200 I have a document I want to offer that I think exhibits their entire lack 102 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:48.759 of motive even internally that they were discussing. Right, So, Charles, 103 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:52.320 what do you think about you know, Oswald's motive, the fact that the 104 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.679 Warrent Commission has none, and the fact that generally speaking, you know, 105 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:01.840 there's not really even a clear motive among those who want to insist that we're 106 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:07.720 all crazy when we say this can't be the correct story. When you go 107 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:13.919 into a court of law, they say that three most important things improving a 108 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:18.720 crime is means, motives, an opportunity, and in most courts of law, 109 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:22.080 two out of three just is enough. They want you to establish all 110 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.759 three, and in this case it has never once been established. But the 111 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:31.039 motive is, and they kind of had it evolving the Warrant Commission. At 112 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:35.080 one point he was a community yes, at another point he was a lone 113 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:39.440 nut that wanted it to be famous. There's this, there's that, there's 114 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:43.919 everything, but they've never nailed it down. And because every time they try 115 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:46.080 and do one of these things saying either he's a low nut or a cop 116 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.320 me or whatnot, other conflicting evidence comes up to, you know, kind 117 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:58.360 of disprove that. So that's the biggest, really, the biggest law in 118 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:03.360 the whole case against him is that motive was never and to this day has 119 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:09.320 never been properly ever established, Right, so those that sort of buy into 120 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.879 the stories support it and publicly continue to produce, you know, documentaries, 121 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:18.159 books, et cetera, et cetera, you know, on the case that 122 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:22.279 want to insist that he's the absolute lone assassin. What they wind up settling 123 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:28.440 for is an amalgamation of all of these fragmentary sort of motives that never actually 124 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.919 pan out. Yeah, I mean, wouldn't you say that's about accurate? 125 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.159 I'm gon say yeah. And they use bits and pieces of each one to 126 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:41.320 try and put them all together and say this is a motive. Well, 127 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:45.960 if you have different pieces of a few different puzzles, they're not going to 128 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:50.720 fit together. They're gonna come up with some mishmash that doesn't make any sense. 129 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:54.360 And this is what you got here, right. I mean, they 130 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:58.919 tried the pinion as a loan nut, a crazy person, a violent person. 131 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.120 And you know, they went into his history. They can know his 132 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:09.320 passing, his mother, his relationship with Marina, supposedly, and in order 133 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:13.399 to paint him as this crazy person that was capable of just one day waking 134 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:20.559 up and signed he was going to shoot the president. And on that note, 135 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:30.960 I think that Rob introduced the supposed crazy person idea, which is one 136 00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:35.000 that people like to bandy about. And I want to go into a file 137 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:39.799 from Arthur Dooley, who was supposedly the Oswald internal specialist at the CIA and 138 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.360 was involved in a lot of the file handling of Oswald, and some of 139 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.919 the files never got back from Duley according to some of the other files. 140 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:52.120 But Duley states, at your request, I have reviewed approximately one hundred FBI, 141 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:56.600 Secret Service, Dallas Police, and State Department reports relative to the assassination 142 00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:58.600 of President John F. Kennedy, and I have examined a large volume of 143 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:03.159 related matter, includingly Oswald's writings. Some of the FBI reports contain hundreds of 144 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.159 pages. Now let me stop for a second. I would guarantee that all 145 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:11.320 of us talking right now have read as much as Duley. In fact, 146 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:13.919 I'll contend that I've read a lot more than Duly if this is all he's 147 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:20.399 read. But this is what Duly gets from it. All of the available 148 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:24.799 evidence points to a solitary act of a mentally unstable person. What triggered him 149 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.879 off has not been determined and more than likely never will be resolved. So 150 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.080 we're not going to have a motive, is basically what he's saying. We 151 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:35.840 don't need one, We can't put one together with the evidence we got, 152 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:41.440 So you know, whatever he didn't is basically the overall message. Yeah, 153 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:46.080 he's just kooky, and based on what sort of you know, expert opinion 154 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:52.240 he's offering here is pretty interesting, you know, because taking a look at 155 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:56.639 those files, what it is that he, you know, claims he looked 156 00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:58.919 through, which you know, the available evidence I understand would be limited, 157 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.559 et cetera. But I mean, the reality here is that you don't have 158 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:09.159 a portrait of a really unstable guy from what they had in their hands that 159 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.679 we know of right now, what you have is a guy who's a little 160 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:18.919 bit haphazard in the way he conducts his life. You know, doesn't seem 161 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.559 to have a direction. He's sort of rudderless as a person in a lot 162 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:28.480 of places and gets himself into mischief for you know, making statements and doing 163 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.080 things that he's not supposed to. I mean, I love the fact that 164 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:35.720 And I don't even know if they had possession of his full military records when 165 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:39.039 they made that evaluation. I don't think. So this is sixty four, 166 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:43.080 so this is this is right during the commission. Yeah. And the thing 167 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:45.000 is, you know, a whole lot of that stuff, you know, 168 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:48.440 they were working with limited files. And I know a lot of people make 169 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:54.320 that excuse about the Warrant Commission's conclusions, but you know, fragmentary evidence still 170 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:58.639 is not you know, is not enough to create this you know, like 171 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:03.159 I said, this amalgamy motive. You know, you have like inconclusive results 172 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:09.519 about his psychology based on his history. And meanwhile, these aren't even psychologists 173 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:11.840 that are studying it. I'm not saying that they didn't do that at some 174 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:16.039 point. But a whole lot of people are passing judgment on this guy's psychology 175 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.120 who was only twenty four years of age, who really hadn't quite picked out 176 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.080 a direction in life. I mean, we're talking about a guy who signed 177 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:26.799 up, went into the Marine Corps and then you know, immediately leaving on 178 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:31.639 a hardship discharge, goes and you know, shows up in Russia on a 179 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:35.960 tourist visa, decides to defect over there, stays there for a couple of 180 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:37.639 years, comes back with a Russian wife and a baby, where he's got 181 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:43.120 a dysfunctional relationship. And almost anybody would agree on this, you know, 182 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.600 I mean, and from any side of the spectrum would agree on that characterization 183 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:52.039 of that point in his life. And I basically just described his entire adulthood. 184 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.000 I mean, unless you guys think I'm crazy here, Leo had found. 185 00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:02.519 One of the ridiculous things is that he tried to use the fact that 186 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:07.720 he had a truancy problem when he was in school as evidence of criminal behavior 187 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:12.879 or the evidence of a criminal in the making because he didn't want to go 188 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:18.360 to class. What TI What school student isn't truant from time to time? 189 00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:26.000 That's kind of evidence. Yeah, there's a lot of character. There's a 190 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:30.720 lot of character assassination with little actual evidence. I mean, if they wanted 191 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:33.960 to make criminal connections, which they could have, they just didn't want to. 192 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.879 Uh, they could have gone back to his youth and Exchange alley under 193 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:45.279 Marcello's territory where DUTs got hooked up with Samsia and Samsia worked for Marcello. 194 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:49.679 So oh right, and and but this is the thing. You don't have 195 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:55.080 a lot to judge, you know what we're talking about here. His truancy 196 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:57.679 issue is is a ridiculous point. I mean, there was plenty of kids 197 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:02.639 that were that were true when I mean I had truancy issues. I've never 198 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:11.000 been convicted as an adult of any crime, like Scarface never convicted. He 199 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:15.519 had to go there, Rob, Is there anything you want to add to 200 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:18.799 this, because I mean, I'm so tired of having to beat down the 201 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:23.960 crazy kid Oswald thing. I'm really like at the point of going, Uh, 202 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.039 are we really having to go through this once more? How do you 203 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:30.240 feel about it? Well, I just want to add it. You know, 204 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:34.799 they always wanted to paint him as a loner, and it's evident throughout 205 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:38.359 his life. You know, he was he had friends in school, he 206 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.880 had friends in the Marine Corps, he had a lot of friends in Russia. 207 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:45.680 And he was always around family, you know, growing up, but 208 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:51.160 maybe not immediate family. Maybe he didn't always have a father around, Maybe 209 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:53.759 his mother was working. He really didn't have a lot of direction when he 210 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:57.319 was in his i'd say early teens, you know, until the time he 211 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:03.759 went to the Marine Corps. And as we know from photo evidence, you 212 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:10.319 know, he joined the Sewhere Patrol, you know, and maybe he got 213 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:15.599 some guidance from uh, you know men, you know, or various other 214 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:22.319 places. But that's that's typical. That's typical of any of any kid, 215 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.839 I mean, growing up, you know, without a father in his life 216 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:27.799 and a mother who's working all the time, trying to support their family, 217 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:32.480 you know. And you got to figure by this time his brothers are gone, 218 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:37.160 you know, when Oswalden is his in his early teen so you know, 219 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:40.200 his main goal is to get out of that house and get in the 220 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:44.519 Marine Corps as soon as possible. He's really not worried about with that point, 221 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:48.720 right, John Pick and Robert oswald are gone, so they can't exactly 222 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:52.279 be the great surrogate father figure for him. You know, if if we 223 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.720 were to claim that he even required one, which he might have, that 224 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:59.960 might explain some of his sort of actions regarding how he decided to socialize. 225 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:06.640 But he was not antisocial. He was not an isolationist. This is clear 226 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:10.440 just by the again, by the records they have in their own hands. 227 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:15.559 So you know, to say that he was just this isolated sort of individual 228 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:19.720 who was constantly seeking to be alone, constantly seeking solitude, this is a 229 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:26.839 ridiculous point. You know, I think that that's that entire scenario is twisted 230 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.400 by the fringe on each side. You've got the fringe people, you know, 231 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:36.319 you've got the fringe people on one side saying that he was this madman 232 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:38.160 who did all these crazy things. And then you've got the fringe on the 233 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.720 other side who want to defend him, saying that he was totally innocent, 234 00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:44.279 that he was a super spy, which we know isn't true because he shot 235 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:47.680 himself. That's how he got his first court martial. Yeah, you know, 236 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:51.039 this isn't the this isn't the genius gunman that they try to prop up. 237 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:56.079 Yeah, you know, people that want to photoshop him into pictures with 238 00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.920 puppies and things like that, exactly. You know, they turn around and 239 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.200 paint this picture of a James Bond, soft hearted, you know, sort 240 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:08.960 of progressive liberal, very deep, you know, And honestly, I don't 241 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:11.920 get that impression from most of the people that I can prove new him. 242 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.720 But okay, yeah, you know exactly. I mean, you know, 243 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:21.079 he's it's it's kind of like Jeff, you know. And I know that 244 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:22.319 people will give me flack for this, but whatever that. You know, 245 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.440 they say that I can be too cold in my analysis, But that's how 246 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:29.559 you have to be. You're not supposed to put any of these people on 247 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.359 a pedestal, whether it's jfker Oswald or Alan Dulles. They're all people, 248 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:37.680 they all have flaws, they've all done bad things. No one is completely 249 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.839 innocent. No one is completely guilty unless the evidence puts us there. Yeah, 250 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:47.079 people all far too often they involve it, you know, themselves, 251 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.920 emotionally. But where you're going into a case like this, where you're looking 252 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.240 at it and try to find answers, you can't be emotional about it. 253 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:57.920 You've got to just go with what the evidence is and just follow through with 254 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.079 it. Emotions got noting to do with it, right, And I'd also 255 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:04.480 like to point out, you know, when it comes to the motive, 256 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:10.960 uh, you know, with what Oswa was doing in New Orleans, uh, 257 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.880 you know before the assassination, you know, with his defection, they 258 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:21.200 could have easily used that pandhim as a Communist, Marxist or Procastro guy, 259 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.880 you know, acting on behalf of Castro, and then they would have had 260 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.160 a motive, okay, but they chose not to go that route. They 261 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:34.200 chose not to pursue that they would They instead painting him as a lone nut 262 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:41.279 with no motives. Well, you know, they started with that scenario internally, 263 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.039 with the whole Mexico City thing, which you know, in my estimation, 264 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:51.839 uh, you know, the the entire Mexico City episode is holy suspect. 265 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.480 You have the CIA who's surveilling you know, two particular installations, which 266 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.119 by the way, a consulate and an to see or two different things. 267 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:06.759 But anyway, you know, saying that they were surveilling this place constantly under 268 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:11.400 photographic surveillance, yet we have no legitimate photographic evidence for it. When you 269 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:14.640 trace back looking at all that stuff, I mean they sort of started to 270 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.279 go with that scenario, but I mean it was even far too ridiculous for 271 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.359 them to really embrace you know. Yeah, well, none of the things 272 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:26.440 line up. I mean, all of these supposed Oswald appearances are not congruent 273 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:30.720 to Lee Harvey Oswald. Whether it's Duran's red faced, short blonde haired man, 274 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:37.240 or it's Alvarado's tail or. You know, no one saw him actually 275 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:42.519 there that can be trusted, that has consistent testimony everything that happens. The 276 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:47.680 phone call that Winston Scott tried to remind everyone in the CIA about that was 277 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:51.759 in Spanish, which Oswald didn't speak, was using the name Oswald. You 278 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:55.279 know, none of the non of the wire taps they had in the consulates 279 00:22:55.279 --> 00:23:02.119 of the embassies picked up you know, picked him up. Nobody Oswald's voice 280 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:06.599 was never identified and shown publicly, right, So I don't think they had 281 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.680 it. They didn't have pictures of him. He might have went to Mexico, 282 00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:11.160 I'll go with that, but I don't think he ever went to one 283 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.839 of those two consulates or embassies. Yeah, right, thing too about the 284 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.160 no pictures. One of the reasons they tried to give, oh, there 285 00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:25.759 was no pictures as the camera was broken. Well, part of the problem 286 00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:27.559 is, yeah, the camera may have been broken, but they had multiple 287 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:33.079 cameras. So you tell me that every camera they had there was broken, 288 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:37.039 all at the same time, on the same day, and this happens to 289 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:41.079 just occur when Oswald is that, that doesn't make it. There's no way. 290 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:45.319 I mean, that was crazy. Yeah, yeah, so I do 291 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:52.480 believe gentlemen, we've completely disposed of the motive. But you know, and 292 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.599 Charles does point make a great point here regarding this, because you know, 293 00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.240 they they really want you to have all three of these to convict him. 294 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:06.039 And again, I don't state that that means he's absolutely innocent, No, 295 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.519 no, no, no, I'm not one of these guys. I'm just 296 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:14.759 saying that to solely convict him as the loan assassin is a problem. And 297 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:18.559 that brings us to our next sort of part of the equation. We'll leave 298 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.200 motive aside. We'll just assume for a motive, you know, for a 299 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:25.400 moment, that there was a motive, but it can't be ascertained. Let's 300 00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:27.640 just try that in our minds for a minute, even though it seems really 301 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:34.000 ridiculous. Okay, how about means, guys, So the means to carry 302 00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:38.720 out the assassination. Well, would you say that I should wait for the 303 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:45.200 seventy two for opportunity? Oh, that fits under opportunity. Okay, I'll 304 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:48.240 wait for opportunity. I'll let you guys go. I'll try to think. 305 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:51.480 Oh, besides the gun, the problem with the gun that we all know, 306 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:55.559 of course, Well the problem. How many problems do you want? 307 00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:57.519 Yeah, yeah, Well, you know you have the rusty firing pin. 308 00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:03.720 You've got the fact that it's a remodeled uh former Italian World War Two rifle 309 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.200 that was sold a surplus. You've got the fact that some of those that 310 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:10.640 were modified in the lot blew up in the hands and killed three different owners, 311 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.039 which is why there was a suit going on between the supplier and the 312 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:19.279 distributor. Night nice list to start off with, Rob you want to add, 313 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:29.319 well, you know, there's the whole problem of actually getting this gun 314 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.319 traced back to Oswald as being the one that he supposedly ordered in the first 315 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.079 place. There's problems with you know, the model of the gun that he's 316 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:40.559 supposedly ordered being different from the one that he got. You there's a problem 317 00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:45.559 with the money orders supposedly used to pay for the gun and it not ending 318 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.279 up in the right place or going through the right banks. And uh, 319 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:52.119 you know, Gil Gil Hayesus and John Armstrong had done a lot of good 320 00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:59.920 work about that about the man Laker Karkano rifle and exactly you know, trace 321 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.119 it from from the time it hit the shores, you know, through the 322 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:10.039 gunsmith made this way to climbs and supposedly into Oswald's hands. And you know 323 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:14.359 they talk about the FBI going to going to clins, uh, you know, 324 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.359 the day after the assassination to try to figure out, you know, 325 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:22.000 if they could find his order slip, and they supposedly got there and spent 326 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:25.599 you know, all night there untill like five in the morning looking through all 327 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:30.279 these microfish files. Couldn't find anything. So they asked the manager of clients 328 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:32.680 if they could just take all the rest of it back to headquarters and see 329 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:37.839 if they can find something, and miraculously, three days later they do so. 330 00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:42.839 Of course, then there's the problem, of course with the rifle of 331 00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:51.880 his marks marksmanship and opportunity to actually practice or lack thereof, yes, right, 332 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:56.440 which is not to be confused with opportunity for the crime, because you 333 00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:00.759 know, it could be assumed that somehow he has a natural ability, I 334 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:04.559 guess. But the thing is, all of these things, when put together 335 00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:07.319 like that, in and of itself, is not enough to dismiss it. 336 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.519 But the fact that he's got no time to practice, there's no way to 337 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.519 site in the weapon, which would have been required if it was actually a 338 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.880 broken down weapon that had entered the school book depository. The fact that you've 339 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:25.200 got money orders that don't have the proper you know, the proper chain of 340 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:29.200 stamps on them to go through the federal reserve system. The fact that you've 341 00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:33.720 got this package being delivered to a post office box to an alleged you know, 342 00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:41.839 alias of Oswald's, where that alias wasn't even actually allowed to collect mail 343 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.559 at that post office box. You know, all kinds of stuff where it 344 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:51.559 just kind of says, we don't have a clear paper trail on the weapon. 345 00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:56.799 And then please don't even get started on the handgun, because how is 346 00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.839 it that Roadway Express delivers a handgun to a post office box, that post 347 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.559 office box. Yeah, Charles, you want to say something about that, 348 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:07.559 Well, yeah, I just I was gonna you brought out you actually saw 349 00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:10.480 my thunder their truck because That's what I was gonna bring up, is that 350 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:17.640 it was I believe it was actually called railway Express and courier services that brings 351 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.400 a pistol to a post office box. Well, the only thing that goes 352 00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:26.319 into post office box or the United States fail not stuff brought by couriers. 353 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:32.039 Another problem with the rifle is he paid Oswald initially when he ordered it was 354 00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:36.519 either the rifle of the pistol one or two. When he ordered it he 355 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.640 paid ten dollars down and the rest with COD. Well, if it's delivered 356 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.559 to a post office box, who paid for it? I don't think the 357 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.920 guy'd be a post office because say, oh okay, here's twenty bucks. 358 00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:56.039 No. COD only works if you're delivering it directly to the person, and 359 00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:57.759 as we know in this case, that's not what happened. It went to 360 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:03.599 post office box. So who paid for it? And is there any chaine 361 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:07.759 of command who paid for it? And the more and more you look at 362 00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.440 it you unrail more. The more layers you unravel, the more the story 363 00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:18.359 falls apart. Right, I was thinking I did misspeak when I said roadway 364 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.920 was railway Express, which you know a modern day equivalent would be like ups 365 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:27.039 you know, in a way, because they are a service which delivers packages 366 00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:30.839 like this, but UPS checked with the UPS office. They can't deliver stuff 367 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:36.920 to a US Post Office box because as you just said, you know, 368 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:44.400 only United States Postal Service circulated matter ends up in post office boxes, you 369 00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:48.319 know, not to mention the fact that also there was you know, all 370 00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:53.359 sorts of considerations in place, the specific paperwork that needed to be filled out 371 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:59.960 in order to ship firearms through the mail. And does anybody know where any 372 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.720 that stuff is? And another thing, no, I don't think. Another 373 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:10.359 thing that's also strange is that Oswald sends this money order for the rifle the 374 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:15.640 client sporting goods. He sends it, and I believe it is by the 375 00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:25.200 end of the next day, it's received and deposited intocline's account, going from 376 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:30.559 Texas to Chicago in one day and processing into the account. This is before 377 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.480 or computers. But in twenty four hours he sends his money order and it's 378 00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:41.599 in the client's account. That just seems extremely especially considering we're talking about nineteen 379 00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:45.960 sixty three year, not modern day where everything now is like direct transfer. 380 00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:52.359 To have it done one day, that's like light speed. And even if 381 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:55.640 you did attempt to do it in one day in modern times, okay, 382 00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.200 try sending something through the post office overnight, okay, and getting it to 383 00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:07.079 a destination and then also getting that into a bank. You know, it's 384 00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:12.160 hard to do now, you know, forget nineteen sixty three. I mean, 385 00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:17.839 everything took longer. It's just a reality, right, Rob. You 386 00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:21.400 wanted to add something to that, Yeah, I was just saying, yeah, 387 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:23.440 yeah, that's just not possible. I mean, like you said, 388 00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:27.400 it's not possible. Now it wasn't possible. Then it's a fantasy. And 389 00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.799 just on an interesting side note, I thought I would add in here that 390 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:40.359 as part of Jerry Patrick Hemming's application to the CIA, he put down as 391 00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:49.759 a past employer Climbs Sporting Goods, Chicago, Illinois. Isn't that interesting? 392 00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:56.200 That's funny, right? They supposedly denied his request to you know, become 393 00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:01.559 a CIA agent, but you know the paper work is there, and you 394 00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:05.519 know it was one of his past employers. Yeah, you want to give 395 00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:08.079 a brief explanation who who? Because we all know who Hemming is, But 396 00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:13.000 you want to give a brief explanation as to who Heming is in your estimation, 397 00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:19.480 Well, that's a daunting task, chuck. Uh. Jerry Hemming is 398 00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:23.000 a lot of different things to a lot of different people. That's good. 399 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:30.519 You know, he was basically a you know, a mercenary, an anti 400 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:38.440 Castro Cuban raider for hire, you know too. It was part of inter 401 00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:45.200 Penn. Did he start inter Penn or found it? I believe. But 402 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:52.160 he's he's buddies with like people like Philip Vidal Santiago and Lawrence Hall or Lawrence 403 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:55.559 Howard and Lawrence Hall, William Seymour, guys like that that that always get 404 00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:01.640 implicated in some form or fashion in the assassination. You know, he's one 405 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:07.000 of the anti Castro contingent, right, yeah, right, didn't like Frank 406 00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:13.880 Sturgis. Uh. You know, but he was always somehow in the the 407 00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.240 wrong place at the right time, if you know what I mean. Uh, 408 00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:22.960 or the right place at the wrong time, depending on who he's telling 409 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:27.599 the story to. Because he even admitted himself that he lies to researchers. 410 00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:34.319 So what's the real truth. It's hard to say. Very good. I 411 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.799 was just gonna say I would not advise the listener if you're unfamiliar with Hemming 412 00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:44.200 to involve yourself in the nexus because the guy admits himself that he's a liar 413 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:49.480 at various points and UH and misled a lot of a lot of people who 414 00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:55.799 were honestly interested in the UH in the various you know, sort of overlapping 415 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:01.960 scenarios regarding the anti castro tingent, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, 416 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.279 this guy is definitely one of those, you know, don't bother with 417 00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:10.559 the rabbit tail. Yeah, And I think that he exemplifies the danger of 418 00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:15.559 taking the word of anyone who even may have been a witness to some things, 419 00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:20.199 whether or not it goes as far as they might claim that they can 420 00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:24.000 lie. And they will lie, sometimes for money, sometimes for fame, 421 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:29.559 sometimes just to stop you in your research so that you can't find out anything 422 00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:34.760 else. I would say, sometimes just for fun. Yeah, I would 423 00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:38.199 say, once somebody goes out and admit, yeah, I'm a liar, 424 00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:42.559 I lie to people, I think you pretty much got to qualk into question 425 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:47.239 pretty much anything that guy said. But he's an that he lies. I 426 00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:51.920 don't know how you could go anywhere else. That's why I've never put any 427 00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:55.519 stock into what what That other guy, the guy that was trying to blame 428 00:34:55.679 --> 00:35:05.039 LBJ and mac Walliff Rochester. Ye know the guy that was sorry, Rob, 429 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:09.679 you know what? Right? We talked about it, yes, and 430 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:15.559 admitted under old that he's a liar. So once someone says that, sorry, 431 00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:20.719 I'm gonna take with what you say with the greatest helm now. Absolutely, 432 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:22.679 And and I don't want to get too far off track, as we've 433 00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:28.679 only covered the weapon as far as means, but hey, let's you know, 434 00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.719 why not touch upon his skill level for a moment. Suh. You 435 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:35.920 know you got something you want to add to that core amine? Oh yeah, 436 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:38.920 yeah, Well that was always my big contention, and I argued for 437 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:43.199 months. I'm happy to see that the evidence finally came out to support, 438 00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:46.199 you know, the side that I was contending. That he didn't have the 439 00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:52.360 time for practice. And if you look in firearms manuals, a good one 440 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:57.920 is by LP Breezy, where they actually break down the process that you have 441 00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:04.559 to have firing practice with the Karkano mechanism because the trigger mechanism is such that 442 00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:07.239 you're going to have to be adjusting things if you're not familiar with it, 443 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.960 which is going to take too much time. And if he doesn't have the 444 00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:15.920 time to make the shots, then someone else has to be firing to have 445 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:21.360 that many bullets. Yeah, well there's the problem. And then of course 446 00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:24.079 there is also you know, I don't know if anybody else wants to add 447 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:28.840 into his skill level and all that. Well, I was just gonna say 448 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:32.960 that firing a rifle and being a markman is not just something that you can 449 00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:38.159 just stop for you know, fight some time and then just pick up and 450 00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:44.039 skill stay the same. It's not like softball where you stop playing in October 451 00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:46.760 and then you come back in like May and you start hitting home runs. 452 00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:51.639 If you're going to be a marksman, that's something you've got to continuous sleep 453 00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:54.199 cracket. Otherwise, if you don't and you don't fire for a while, 454 00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:59.199 your skills will degrade. That's why you see these people who go into the 455 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.880 Olympics and like is they're shooting the biathm on one where they're going around shooting 456 00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:07.719 target. They're practicing year round for years to maintain a level that's worthy of 457 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:14.199 them going into competition. If they were to stop and then three years later 458 00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:17.199 picking up, their skills would be complete. I think the greatest they would 459 00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:20.519 be, you know, not worthy of it. So it's something that you 460 00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.719 have to keep up and again in this case, we have no evidence that 461 00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:28.400 he ever did. Yeah, I definitely agree with what Charles said there. 462 00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:31.440 And if you look throughout his life as his you can actually see his skills 463 00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:36.360 degrade because in fifty six he gets the highest marks, because that's when he's 464 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:39.239 doing the most training, he's most interested in the Marines. He hasn't lost 465 00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:43.880 his faith in anything. You know, he's really into it. So that's 466 00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:46.920 when he makes I believe it was just over a sharpshooter. And then three 467 00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:51.239 years later he becomes a marksman, which is a lower grade, which is 468 00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:55.039 a okay shot, not very good. And then now I had a few 469 00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:59.320 more years where he goes to Russia. He never has access to rifles because 470 00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.039 those are illegal in Russia. He only has access to the shotguns, which 471 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:06.639 he rarely uses. Marina's friends tease him that he never brings his gun on 472 00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:09.719 the hunting club trips and never uses it, so he's not getting any regular 473 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:15.199 practice so and not with a rifle at all. So when he comes back, 474 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:19.199 he doesn't have a rifle in his hands that we can prove, that 475 00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:23.639 anyone can prove. Until he gets the rifle, supposedly from the mail and 476 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:28.480 he never practices with it. He dry fires a little bit one time that 477 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:32.199 has been notably proven that Marina claims she saw him doing on the porch. 478 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:37.119 He was moving the bolt, but that's not firing practice. You can't operate 479 00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.599 the trigger mechanism quickly and efficiently. Now add in all the other problems that 480 00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:44.920 we've discussed, add in the problem, you know, with the scope. 481 00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:45.679 Then they say, well, I use the iron sights. Okay, Well, 482 00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:47.880 if he use the iron sights, he's still got to be able to 483 00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:51.000 move it quick enough. He's still got to be able to fire, and 484 00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:55.480 he obstructions. It just doesn't stack up. It's very improbable in my opinion. 485 00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:00.559 Well, you know what else is not mentioned very often is the fact 486 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:07.039 that where is his ammunition? He only had just enough shots to you know, 487 00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:10.880 just enough bullets, you know, in the gun for that day left 488 00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:15.760 after all of this, you know, alleged surreptitious practicing that he might have 489 00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:20.800 had to have done. I mean, where's his ammo? Did Did anybody 490 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:24.599 know that? Yeah? That's a good point, because they checked his garage, 491 00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:30.599 the Ruth Payne's garage in her house and all her storage plats there. 492 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:38.920 They checked Beckley they checked every gunshot around Dallas, no one that ever sold 493 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:45.079 him any sort of AMMO, found no one that ever saw him in any 494 00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:49.159 gunshot buying AMMO, and found no evidence that he ever No boxes, no 495 00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:52.519 receipts, no nothing. Are you telling me the guy went out and just 496 00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:58.559 randomly found four bullets? I mean they came from somewhere. Where did they 497 00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:04.159 come from? Okay? Well, the devil's advocate argument here is that each 498 00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:08.840 of the weapons came with enough rounds through the mail order. But then, 499 00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:13.840 like I said, when it comes to practicing, he's got nothing to spare. 500 00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:16.320 He's got a full clip for the carcano, and he's probably got enough 501 00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:20.800 to load the uh, you know, to load the thirty eight. I 502 00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:24.519 mean, that's it. Well to me, that just doesn't make any sense. 503 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:31.079 So he so he's that means he doesn't practice once. So uh then 504 00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:35.079 you gotta ask yourself, well, then did he use another bullet? You 505 00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:38.519 know from the Walker shooting, which is of course the bullet the Walker shooting 506 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:43.039 has never been matched up, So it just doesn't I just don't see. 507 00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:45.679 It just doesn't make any sense. So he's gonna just rely on out of 508 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:52.079 the blue years after practicing in the Marines. He's just gonna have just enough 509 00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:58.079 bullets and get three lucky chocolate. That was his master plan, to just 510 00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:00.960 try and do this on a whim. I'm sorry it doesn't work. It's 511 00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:05.519 lappable in my mind, right. And then on top of it, you 512 00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:07.519 mentioned the Walker shooting. Of course, that goes back to the first thing 513 00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:12.559 we discussed, which was motive, because they said that this was sort of 514 00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:15.880 the dry run for him wanting to hit a significant figure. And uh, 515 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.199 and therefore, you know, shows part of his motive, part of him 516 00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:22.599 building up to and all of that, you know, his state of mind, 517 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:28.639 what it was about. But there's a problem there too, or a 518 00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:37.400 few anyway, you guys want to discuss that, Rob, Yeah, I 519 00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:43.559 just wanted to point out too that when it comes to Oswald's ability, you 520 00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:45.519 know, to shoot the rifle accurately. I mean, you have to put 521 00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:52.519 yourself for a second up on the sixth floor as Oswald with that rifle in 522 00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:57.639 your hands, and you're sitting there and you're wondering if anybody's gonna come in 523 00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:01.159 on you, what are you gonna do. The President's motorcate is running late, 524 00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:06.559 you know, and you're sitting there waiting and waiting and waiting, you 525 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:09.440 know, and there's a you know, there's a physical reaction to stress. 526 00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:16.320 And unless Oswald was literally a cold blooded killer with nerves of steel, he 527 00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:21.320 would have been shaking like a leaf trying to aim and fire that gun, 528 00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.840 and he would have been a sweaty mess, you know, he'd have been 529 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:30.760 a wreck, really, and there's no evidence of that whatsoever. Well, 530 00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:32.719 yeah, unless you want to believe Walter Cronkite, who you know, on 531 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:37.719 the day that the Warrant Commission report was released to the public, actually stated 532 00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:43.400 with a straight face on TV that this may have been a factor regarding someone 533 00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:47.840 shooting at a human being on any given day, but this was different because 534 00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:52.679 this was the President of the United States. Yeah, but there's absolutely no 535 00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:59.599 evidence whatsoever that Oswald had ever shot or tried to murder anyone. Well, 536 00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:05.199 unless you, of course include General Walker into the mix, you know before, 537 00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:07.679 which if it was him shooting at Walker, he didn't, he missed, 538 00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:14.960 So you know, there's no there's no killed the four. That was 539 00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:16.679 gonna be my point that if it was awful the shot it off Walker, 540 00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:24.199 that's a ding against his accuracy because he couldn't fire successfully and shoot a target 541 00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:32.199 that was sitting stationary, like half the distance in what jfp's car was. 542 00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:39.760 So he had all the offer right and to accurately sort of point this out 543 00:43:39.800 --> 00:43:44.119 to people, you know, you got to understand that Walker was a stationary 544 00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:46.960 target sitting in like a den or an office in his house. I forget 545 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:51.119 exactly how they described the room, but I mean, this guy was sitting 546 00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:55.199 in a chair and by some you know, happenstance, according to the official 547 00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:59.559 story, just happened to bend down at the moment that somebody decided to fire 548 00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:02.800 a bullet through his window and it ends up in the wall. Yep. 549 00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:07.400 Okay, I think that's a pretty accurate, fair picture of what they try 550 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.000 to paint regarding the Walker shooting. So you're telling me that a guy who's 551 00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:17.199 standing on ground level with his target who is not moving missed yet somehow made 552 00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:22.239 the shots required in daily plaza with the means available. Yeah, from an 553 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:28.840 elevated position through you know, some tree branches, most likely, uh, 554 00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:31.800 you know, at an odd Well, here's what always bothered me is, 555 00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:35.719 Okay, he's gonna shoot the president of the United States and kill him. 556 00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:38.079 They could clean get away. He's gonna go back and get a handgun, 557 00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:44.159 and now he's gonna go somewhere and he's gonna kill a cop, and he's 558 00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:46.400 gonna go to the movie theater. And then he's just gonna give up and 559 00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:50.840 go quietly when they win a corner him. You know, he's not gonna 560 00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:57.239 go out and a blaze of glory. It just never made sense. Well, 561 00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:00.000 in fairness, if you have to trust the testimony of the cops, 562 00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:04.960 which is difficult to do. But if you have to trust the testimony of 563 00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:07.159 the cops, I mean, he did try and pull his weapon, didn't 564 00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.599 do so good with the guy, that's right, because the Superman put his 565 00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:15.000 hand in between the firing pin and the bullet, Is that right, Yeah, 566 00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:20.199 that's right, actually stuck the webbing between his thumb and his forefinger in 567 00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:29.519 between there and kept the hammer from falling. Yeah, but that's right. 568 00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:32.559 That's a hell of a move there. That's like a Matrix style move, 569 00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:39.360 you know, nineteen sixty three. Yeah, well, well yeah, as 570 00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:43.719 Charles, yeah, in the dark is another good note. As Charles was 571 00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:46.079 saying, you know about and you guys were commenting about the Walker incident, 572 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:51.239 just looking at that there's tons of problems with it. I mean, first 573 00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:53.320 of all, look, get the target, general Walker. General Walker is 574 00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:58.599 not some unassociated person to this case. And people might say, well, 575 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:01.400 you know, Oswald did go that one meeting with Michael Payn where he spoke 576 00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:06.480 and apparently that in Walker's attitude, was enough to make him want to kill 577 00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:08.599 him. Okay, well, if that's the case, then why did all 578 00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:13.840 the witnesses see two men the days before and the time after the shooting? 579 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:16.559 You know, why is it that no one ever saw a lone person? 580 00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:22.199 We then have to trust that Oswald went there and he missed. And as 581 00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:25.519 Chuck stated earlier, if he can't make that shot, what are the odds 582 00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:30.039 he's going to make the shots? As I said in Deally Plaza, you 583 00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:32.599 know he if he doesn't have the means to do that, how did he 584 00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:37.440 have the means to do it later with the same weapon which Marina allegedly states 585 00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.159 was buried before and after the Walker shooting. You know, as Charles said, 586 00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:45.400 they can't match the bullet. You know, Walker himself has an agenda 587 00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:52.199 and Oswald fits into that agenda perfectly, and according to some files, Walker 588 00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:55.800 may have been responsible for the entire thing being attributed to Oswald before the police 589 00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:00.320 even said anything, because Walker, according to one file, was talking to 590 00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:04.639 the German media days before Ruth Payne, ever turned the book over with the 591 00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:10.679 note in it that Ever spurred the Walker incidents creation, which is also suspicious. 592 00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:15.039 I was just gonna say another thing doesn't get brought up a lot, 593 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:21.480 but it kind of has always struck me as odd. Walker was known as 594 00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:27.840 a very much a right wing leaning, you know general, he was very 595 00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:31.760 much to the right wing almost fashion type. When JFK was president, he 596 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:38.800 was always considered by many to be sort of a left leaning, you know, 597 00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:44.480 president, left leaning politician. Well, if you're shooting at both of 598 00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:47.920 them, how is it if it's a political purposes, why would you shoot 599 00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:52.400 it both of them, which are kind of on the opposite end of the 600 00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:57.320 spectrum politically, if well, you know what the argument is there, and 601 00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:00.119 I got to give them this is that at the time time, you know, 602 00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:07.159 contemporaneous with the events here, Kennedy is not necessarily as left wing as 603 00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:12.679 people paint him, you know, in the public's mind in some parts of 604 00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:15.800 this country, you know, he might as well have been a communists, 605 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:22.320 that's for certain in certain sectors. But the reality is that the general public 606 00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:27.960 perception and I'm assuming that Oswald, you know, didn't run in the most 607 00:48:28.039 --> 00:48:31.320 extreme and I want you guys to hit this one wasn't exactly running in the 608 00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:39.480 most extreme circles right wing wise. But the thing is that Kennedy wasn't necessarily 609 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:44.800 painted as the most far left person you could have. Now. Walker was 610 00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:49.360 a far right guy and definitely had a discernibly different agenda. I mean, 611 00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:53.159 if you were striking at the heart of a particular ideal, you know, 612 00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:57.400 and you struck at Walker, it really didn't make a whole lot of sense 613 00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:01.800 to go after Kennedy. But kind of he was anti segregation. Walker was 614 00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:07.400 pro segregation, right, could in a mental institution? Well, yeah, 615 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:10.519 that does tend to upset people when you throw them in a mental Well you 616 00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:14.280 know what, if anyone deserved to go to a mental institution for an observation, 617 00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:19.880 it was Walker. Yeah, yeah, this is all true. And 618 00:49:20.039 --> 00:49:22.679 still we're talking about and you know, I don't want to get too far 619 00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:24.559 off track because we could do that all day. But you know, back 620 00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:32.039 to the means. Okay, so the means to escape really not set up 621 00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:36.480 very well he just sort of slipped out after he was already confronted. I 622 00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:40.320 mean really, Baker would lament years later he wished he had shot him privately, 623 00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:44.320 by the way, never I don't think made that statement publicly, but 624 00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:46.440 he wished he had shot him after all the trouble he caused. Okay, 625 00:49:47.800 --> 00:49:52.039 and that's Marion Baker, the guy who actually confronts him. And some people 626 00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:54.440 argue about whether he had a soda in his hand or not. But interesting, 627 00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:59.480 interesting if you believe he's got a soda, he shoots the president of 628 00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:01.440 the United s States, is confronted by a cop a minute and a half 629 00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:04.719 later, and he's got a soda in his hand. Well, yeah, 630 00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:07.960 depending on what version, because I know that. You know, some people 631 00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:12.280 have talked about how there's multiple versions in multiple floors that that supposedly might have 632 00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:15.679 occurred on right, based on the DPD reports, which are a mess, 633 00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:22.480 well and there and therein lies another problem is that trying to draw this timeline 634 00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:28.280 for his means and those that collected the evidence are the Dallas Police Department, 635 00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:31.840 And have fun with that one, ladies and gentlemen. If you really want 636 00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:37.320 to look at what happens to an investigation when it's not being handled with the 637 00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:40.880 utmost care. Take a look at what the Dallas Police Department did. Okay, 638 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:45.719 And as a matter of as a matter of like regular practice, these 639 00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:50.400 guys would fill out reports like just one guy would wind up filling out a 640 00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:54.119 report who didn't even necessarily, you know, participate in the events he's recounting. 641 00:50:54.519 --> 00:50:59.960 In sworn Apidavid. After Apidavid, you find conflicts, you find problem 642 00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:04.840 and in their in their testimony ever after, these guys would multiply claim to 643 00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:07.840 have been in places where they could not have been. I mean, draw 644 00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:12.199 the timeline for yourself, go right ahead, and you've spoken to them, 645 00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:15.039 so you know the problems that they faced. About about fifty of them, 646 00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:22.440 you know, I think it's pretty bad number, but I mean, you 647 00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:24.760 know, there were a lot more DPD guys there. I'm not saying that 648 00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:30.559 they were all like this, but seemed like a pretty common story where you 649 00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:35.920 didn't have these guys really keeping serious, meticulous track of everything that was going 650 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:39.360 on, and even with that net that was out there, and of course 651 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:44.719 this was a huge dragnet, you know, locally to start with, and 652 00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:47.639 there was the involvement of the FBI, really early on there was you know, 653 00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:52.400 obviously the Secret Service wanted to know what happened. Everything else in this 654 00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:57.639 huge dragnet. You still don't come up with all of the things that would 655 00:51:57.639 --> 00:52:00.880 have been required to give him those means to put that gun in his hands, 656 00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:04.639 to give him the skill level, to give him all of this stuff. 657 00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:07.119 I mean, unless I don't know, unless you guys have some other 658 00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:10.760 kind of ideas about it, I'd love to hear them. Well. One 659 00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:15.159 of the things I've always found strange is that in Marion Baker's initial report, 660 00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:22.599 he wrote an initial report the day of the initial report, never mentions that 661 00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:30.920 him and Roy truly encountered anybody at any soda machine on any floor. Now, 662 00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:32.000 you would think that that would be, you know, at least something 663 00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:36.280 he would have even mentioned just in passing that, Oh yeah, I mean, 664 00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:38.760 we knee in the building, the manager went up, we encountered one 665 00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:42.880 of the employees on the floor, and you you know, you want to 666 00:52:42.920 --> 00:52:45.679 be rather detailed. It wasn't until later reports that Baker brought up that he 667 00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:52.119 mentioned the encounter at the coke machine. So I've always found that strange, 668 00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:55.239 whether it's meaning him, whether he forgot, but I found it a little 669 00:52:55.239 --> 00:53:00.199 odd. Anyways, Yeah, because the handwritten report doesn't matter the typewritten report. 670 00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:06.320 Which is really funny because according to some accounts, and again I've got 671 00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:09.280 conflicts on these accounts, but according to some accounts, he's literally typing up 672 00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:15.840 that report in the same room where Oswald is already in custody, okay, 673 00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:20.000 and doesn't make a correlation while he's typing up that report that this is who 674 00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:22.800 we're talking about, really, that this is the guy that he stopped on 675 00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:25.599 that floor. Yeah, I have a theory. Why chuck about that? 676 00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:29.280 Oh, if you want to hear sure, I'd love to hear it. 677 00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:32.239 I think it was about I think it was about ninety seven or ninety eight. 678 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:37.039 Well, there's a guy named Otis Wilson who worked on the fourth floor 679 00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:42.840 in one of the book offices, who was out front when the motorcade passed 680 00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:49.639 and the shots happened and all that. And in the first maryon Baker account, 681 00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:52.719 he said, like he said, he didn't mention the lunch room, 682 00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:58.280 the second floor lunchroom encounter, but he did mention encountering a fellow wearing a 683 00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:02.400 brown jacket that truly said No, he's okay, he works here on like 684 00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:07.159 the third or fourth floor, I believe is what he said now, and 685 00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:10.480 I think it was in ninety seven or ninety eight there was Otis Wilson came 686 00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:15.480 forward for the first time and recounted what he did after shots were fired. 687 00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:21.840 He said, almost immediately, almost immediately, he turned and went back into 688 00:54:22.199 --> 00:54:24.760 in the school book depository and was going back up to his office and called 689 00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:30.119 his wife to let her know what had just happened. Okay, now he 690 00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:35.000 didn't see Oswald. And then we of course have the account of Victoria Adams 691 00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:39.440 and Sandra Styles coming down from the fourth floor. So what I'm thinking is 692 00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:46.880 Otus Wilson made it up before Sandra and Vicky went down. You know they 693 00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:50.800 were, because they waited like a minute and a half or two minutes before 694 00:54:50.840 --> 00:54:53.000 they went down the stairs. But if Otis is coming up almost instantly, 695 00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:58.880 you know, that might have been who Marion Baker saw, you know, 696 00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:04.480 the tail end of of as him and Trulier going up the stairs. No, 697 00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:07.960 that makes some sense, and you know, and of course convenient, 698 00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:13.079 by the way, because the whole jacket thing was you know, the jacket 699 00:55:13.119 --> 00:55:17.480 itself was later recovered near the tippet scene that you know that they claim he 700 00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:21.800 had, which is kind of funny because according to the story that I understood, 701 00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:23.920 he had to have collected it from the rooming house after he fled, 702 00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:28.559 which you know, hey, I guess, I guess we're gonna have to 703 00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:32.039 cover this an opportunity because you know, remember, this is a guy who 704 00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:36.480 allegedly shoots the president, is confronted by a cop, slips out of the 705 00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:40.000 book Depository building, which is a place he works, and catches a cab, 706 00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:45.639 you know, after he's you know, after he's caught a bus, 707 00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:49.800 mind you so bus, you know, first on foot, then to a 708 00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.639 bus, takes a transfer, leaves the bus, gets into a taxi, 709 00:55:53.119 --> 00:55:57.239 takes a taxi, pasted his rooming house, then walks to his rooming house. 710 00:55:58.039 --> 00:56:01.920 This is not an expedient escape plan. Yeah, we're not talking a 711 00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:07.320 couple of houses up. Yeah, so we're talking seven seven blocks up past 712 00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:12.840 his house, not like a couple of houses seven blocks past his rooming house 713 00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:15.599 that he walks back, right, you know, so where's you know, 714 00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:21.320 there's just not enough time in the official Warren Commission timeline for him to do 715 00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:24.199 all the stuff they said he did. There's just it's just not possible. 716 00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:29.320 Yeah, despite your friends at the six floor Museum now trying to show you 717 00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:31.360 a different path that he could have taken and everything else in later years, 718 00:56:32.840 --> 00:56:39.840 it still doesn't work. But anyway, unless the path is through a magical 719 00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:45.039 teleport chamber, well you know, it's gonna be hard to put him in 720 00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:47.639 some of the places as fast as they say he got there. Well, 721 00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:52.079 we do have, you know, the the precursor to email, I guess, 722 00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:54.239 because you can get something from one place to another in twenty four hours 723 00:56:54.280 --> 00:56:58.079 and then into another place, which is a bank, in twenty four hours. 724 00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:00.719 I mean, I can't see why there wouldn't be the precursor to the 725 00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:05.920 teleportation machine, you know, which we still don't have to this day. 726 00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:10.519 But where are the files? Min just wants the files? That's it. 727 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:19.840 I just picture Oswald's speed walking everywhere exactly. He just never ever walks, 728 00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:25.960 twitching his little hips like the road Runner. Yeah, nice beat, beat, 729 00:57:27.079 --> 00:57:30.880 Ritchie. Can I throw in one last thick on the Walker incident? 730 00:57:31.079 --> 00:57:36.440 Oh? Please do the letter. The letter is basically how they create the 731 00:57:36.639 --> 00:57:39.360 entire incident in the extrapolite and then entered the investigation looking for other things to 732 00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:44.639 connect to it. Now, the problem with the letter is is Oswald, 733 00:57:44.679 --> 00:57:47.800 who supposedly wrote it, and Marina, who supposedly read it. Their fingerprints 734 00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:54.119 aren't on it, but there are unidentified fingerprints on it. Oh boy, 735 00:57:54.239 --> 00:57:59.519 here we go with the unidentified fingerprints again exactly so how does that happen? 736 00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:02.679 The oil from their fingers would have formed prints, and we know that for 737 00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:07.039 sure, and they would have been there because the unidentified ones are now I'm 738 00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:08.599 not saying they're unidentified, like they couldn't figure out if it was them. 739 00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:14.559 It wasn't them, it was someone else, So I'm sure one of them 740 00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:28.719 wasn't. Mac Wallace's also on that letter that A never specifically mentions Walker and 741 00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:31.599 B is not does not have any sort of date on it. No no 742 00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:36.639 date, no mention, and no specific instructions. We really don't know when 743 00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:42.480 and where and what that letter was when it was constructed, or what it 744 00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:45.519 was all about. That letter could have been three years old for all we 745 00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:47.440 know. Yeah, he could have wrote it at any time for any of 746 00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:51.800 the crazy things that and and I don't mean crazy to say he was crazy 747 00:58:51.880 --> 00:58:53.559 with any of the off color things that he might have done. He did 748 00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:57.400 have written that letter for I don't even know if he wrote it because it 749 00:58:57.519 --> 00:59:04.920 was imperfect Russian, which I doubt that he was capable of even writing that. 750 00:59:06.920 --> 00:59:08.760 And I think Chuck has discussed that before. I've talked to you about 751 00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:12.719 that, and I heard Walt Brown talking about that the other day too, 752 00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:16.320 that he actually some notes of Marena got where parts were in English for him 753 00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:22.519 because he had trouble with Russian. Right. Even Ernest Titovitz, who I 754 00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:25.440 had on the show, discussed, you know, writing things both in Russian 755 00:59:25.480 --> 00:59:29.119 and English when he wrote a letter to the two of them after they had 756 00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:35.119 departed from the Soviet Union. So yeah, and besides that, his writing 757 00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:42.159 skills in English, you know. I mean again, if you go back 758 00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:45.159 to the other myths, you know, somebody says that they were helping him 759 00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:50.639 with his with his grammar, that's why they seemed to improve when he was 760 00:59:50.679 --> 00:59:54.679 in New Orleans. But but that wrong. I really tried to promise myself 761 00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:59.360 I would not. I haven't haven't mentioned the name yet, exactly like Valdemart 762 01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:06.960 she who shall not be Hey, guys, I gotta get off here and 763 01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:14.199 uh in a head out of soccer practice here listen. I appreciate that you 764 01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:16.039 dropped in with us even to do this, you know, a halfway through. 765 01:00:16.159 --> 01:00:21.039 Man, really do appreciate it. And everybody do check out the Littleman 766 01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:25.679 podcast. Just search it out. What episode do you want now sixty four 767 01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:31.320 seeing You can find them all at t LG podcast dot com. Yep, 768 01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:36.920 there you go. Recommend, Thank you, appreciate you having me on Buddy 769 01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:40.199 listen. Thank you, Rob, And we will speak again soon. I'll 770 01:00:40.280 --> 01:00:49.679 see hi yah. So yeah, Rob Clark, definitely. I I also 771 01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:52.840 recommend his podcast and uh and and tell you that, you know, I 772 01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:57.239 I even go back and listen to some of the old ones now because, 773 01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:00.280 like I said before, I sort of was turned off by the name. 774 01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:02.079 At first. I thought it was like, you know, maybe something that 775 01:01:02.199 --> 01:01:08.440 might be sponsored by somebody with the initials DVP or something like that. Another 776 01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:15.039 one who shall not be named on this show anyway, that's an inside show, 777 01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:22.000 so it's not like you can't name him. But neither will she anyway, 778 01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:30.880 because I put that open invitation out and it's not coming and I only 779 01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:34.239 have five questions for her. But but any okay, let me stop, 780 01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:39.119 let me stop, okay, exactly only official myths tonight only officials. We'll 781 01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:44.000 try, we'll try to stay on the official myths. Okay, So we 782 01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:47.639 have definitely, in my estimation, disposed of and then even gone back for 783 01:01:47.840 --> 01:01:53.079 remedial course once again on motive. Yeah, you know we have. We 784 01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:59.000 have destroyed means in my estimation. Yeah. Well yeah, I mean with 785 01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:00.519 means, I think part of the means would have been, like we said, 786 01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:05.280 the Walker incident, there's just so many holes in it that between the 787 01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:08.480 lack of witness corroboration, the lack of the bullet being corroborated, the chain 788 01:02:08.519 --> 01:02:15.400 of evidence with the bullet, the you know that they can't even give a 789 01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:17.079 date for the note, so we don't even know that it's directly connected. 790 01:02:17.199 --> 01:02:20.360 You don't have any fingerprints on the notes, so you don't even know if 791 01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:23.880 Oswald wrote it. It's written beyond his skill level, which would infer that 792 01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:30.119 someone else wrote it and planted it there for Ruth Payne to find or bring 793 01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:35.880 somewhere. And then you have, of course the magic bullet itself. Yeah, 794 01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:39.639 I'm just gonna throw it out there guys and say this, you have 795 01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:45.280 a bullet which chain of custody is no good. The nature of the evidence 796 01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:52.119 is no good. What is good about the magic bullet? And what is 797 01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:54.280 the deal? What do you guys think? I mean, Charles, I'll 798 01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:58.239 let you start because I know we all love to go into this, and 799 01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:02.320 I'll just leave my comments in that general direction and let you have at it, 800 01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:07.519 sir. It's so difficult to know where to start with the magic bullet 801 01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:14.559 because there's so many issues with it. It's not even funny, like you 802 01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:22.559 said, chain of command, trajectory, the condition of the physical bullet itself, 803 01:03:22.639 --> 01:03:30.000 whether it even matched the rifle itself, all of it just doesn't make 804 01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:36.280 any sense. So, I mean, the problem is, one of the 805 01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:44.880 biggest problems is with me is that you look at the supposed headshot and it 806 01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:51.239 hits Kennedy in the head and basically explodes and breaks into you know, dozens 807 01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:54.920 of people. This is going all over the car. But then you've got 808 01:03:55.280 --> 01:04:03.840 the magic bullet, which is traveling downward and at a I think it's the 809 01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:10.280 degree is something like seventeen degrees or something like that. The problem is if 810 01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:15.159 it goes straight through and it's traveling downwards, it's not traveling upwards. It 811 01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:20.519 should just keep going downwards and it should go down and almost embed itself into 812 01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:26.639 like the lower seat or the lower car. For whatever reason, it seems 813 01:04:26.679 --> 01:04:30.920 to go come out of Kennedy in a straight line. Now here's the one 814 01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:35.800 thing that's always fucked me. They typically will go off and say that when 815 01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:45.239 the bullet enters John Connolly it was yawing or tumbling or whatever. Here's my 816 01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:49.800 problem with that is that they also contend that the bullet goes straight through Kennedy 817 01:04:49.960 --> 01:04:56.360 and that the bullet, as described by the Parkland doctors, was I think 818 01:04:56.480 --> 01:05:01.199 about five five millimeters, So it's the tiny little hole, which means it 819 01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:06.480 went straight through. It wasn't tumbling, it wasn't yawing, it wasn't doing 820 01:05:06.559 --> 01:05:15.119 anything. And I think when it hits Connolly less than a second later, 821 01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:19.639 probably a fraction of a second later, it enters him in such a way 822 01:05:19.800 --> 01:05:24.639 where it's straight up and down, almost like the shadow of a bullet. 823 01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:30.920 So in that time it turned that much. It just it didn't have time 824 01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:36.239 to make that kind of turn, that kind of flip where it's going straight 825 01:05:36.679 --> 01:05:41.480 and all of a sudden it turns upwards, So it's straight up and down 826 01:05:41.559 --> 01:05:45.079 as opposed to a small hole and the jacket in Connolly's or the pole in 827 01:05:45.159 --> 01:05:51.760 Connollie's jacket and his shirt. They line up with it being the straight almost 828 01:05:51.800 --> 01:05:56.280 like a straight up and down bullet. So how did it do that in 829 01:05:56.400 --> 01:06:02.280 such a time when the hole is is so small around like it was a 830 01:06:02.320 --> 01:06:05.920 straight through bullet. It just doesn't seem to make sense, and it just 831 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:12.199 doesn't seem to have the time to adjust to be like that. That's problem 832 01:06:12.280 --> 01:06:16.920 number one. I was gonna say, I'd leave the uh, I'll leave 833 01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:20.960 the more specific ballistic matters to you guys, because as I I don't know 834 01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:25.960 if you've ever run into Ed Cage what a gym he is, but he's 835 01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:29.639 always trying to discuss specific ballistics matters with I'm sure a book he has or 836 01:06:30.199 --> 01:06:32.599 you know, he maybe studied a certain type of ballistics and he's really good 837 01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:34.599 at it. And I'm not a ballistics expert, So I leave that to 838 01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:39.000 ballistics experts. But I but what I have been able to pull from the 839 01:06:39.119 --> 01:06:41.679 files regarding the single bullet, I'll try to stick to. And that's, 840 01:06:42.199 --> 01:06:45.079 you know, like the chain of custody was total. Out of the six 841 01:06:45.159 --> 01:06:48.480 people that supposedly handled the bullet, only one could say it was the same 842 01:06:48.519 --> 01:06:54.280 bullet that went into evidence, right, So right there. I mean, 843 01:06:54.599 --> 01:06:59.639 if, as Chuck said earlier, there was no trial, So a lot 844 01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:02.559 of people who support the Commission might want to not be quite so sure of 845 01:07:02.679 --> 01:07:08.079 themselves because under the law, the presumption of innocence stands. If we were 846 01:07:08.119 --> 01:07:12.559 to go, you can't get a conviction under normal circumstances on Oswald. That's 847 01:07:12.599 --> 01:07:17.159 why the Commission had to lower the standards. Well right, sorry, go 848 01:07:17.440 --> 01:07:24.679 ahead, be right. Who is the director of security at Parkland Hospital said 849 01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:30.239 he received the bullet. He described it as appointed nose hunting round when he 850 01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:33.719 got it, and of course you know the carcando was the rounded nose and 851 01:07:33.760 --> 01:07:39.920 it's not a hunting round. Yeah, jacketed. And that's just one of 852 01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:47.559 there several of them. The discrepancy about which stretcher was found on whether it 853 01:07:47.679 --> 01:07:53.199 was even found on the proper stretcher, Yeah, no, there's two. 854 01:07:53.400 --> 01:07:58.199 In the executive sessions, McCloy and rank and talk about how they have two 855 01:07:58.280 --> 01:08:02.239 stories. Yeah, they have it on Kennedy's stretcher and they have it on 856 01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:08.039 connolly stretcher. But then I think, Chuck, we were talking about it 857 01:08:08.119 --> 01:08:10.800 and you were discussing how it might have been another person stretcher as well. 858 01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:16.439 Yeah, unfortunately the person that actually picks it up. Okay, that guy 859 01:08:17.479 --> 01:08:25.399 describes a stretcher that more accurately could be associated with Ronald Fuller, who was 860 01:08:26.079 --> 01:08:29.920 a child who was injured and happened to be in the emergency room that day, 861 01:08:29.960 --> 01:08:32.520 which has absolutely nothing to do with this case. It wasn't like they 862 01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:36.279 used the Fuller stretcher for Connolly or something like that. No, that's an 863 01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:42.640 impossibility. You know, again, the stories don't match up. The chain 864 01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:45.239 of custody is no good. The bullet's no good. Now to say something 865 01:08:45.239 --> 01:08:49.640 about the ballistics and the tumbling and the yawing, there's two kind of schools 866 01:08:49.680 --> 01:08:56.239 of thought here, which I think seem relatively accurate. First of all, 867 01:08:56.319 --> 01:09:00.960 a bullet can do that tumbling to get that oblong injury on Connolly. What's 868 01:09:01.119 --> 01:09:09.199 bizarre about this is the trajectory in order to line it up, How you're 869 01:09:09.239 --> 01:09:14.479 going to put that into Kennedy and then out of it. If it was 870 01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:18.680 two separate shots, it makes more sense. If there's another wound on Kennedy 871 01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:23.399 a little further down the road, it makes more sense. Can it be 872 01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:29.000 theoretically lined up possibly, but then you don't have the bullet like it is. 873 01:09:29.159 --> 01:09:30.680 I mean, as you stated before the headshot, you wind up with 874 01:09:30.760 --> 01:09:34.399 fragmentary evidence which remains in the car. They wind up taking it as a 875 01:09:34.479 --> 01:09:39.680 carpet later. I think there's two large sections of bullet fragment, and then 876 01:09:39.760 --> 01:09:44.960 there's a smaller third one which reappears and disappears in the official evidence. By 877 01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:48.960 the way, gotta love that, But no, I'm not kidding you. 878 01:09:49.039 --> 01:09:53.520 If you look at the FBI photographs of the bullet fragments, sometimes you have 879 01:09:53.760 --> 01:10:01.840 this little additional piece and sometimes you don't. It's which is very strange. 880 01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:05.640 But either way, let's just, you know, go with the idea that 881 01:10:05.960 --> 01:10:11.319 you know, you can't trace the rounds back to him, okay, because 882 01:10:12.119 --> 01:10:15.319 it's even if you can assume that the weapon is the weapon, which that's 883 01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:18.439 also a problem. But even if you assume that the weapon is the weapon, 884 01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:21.199 it's difficult to put it in his hands. You can't get it into 885 01:10:21.239 --> 01:10:26.359 the book depository because Doherty doesn't see it come in and that was his job. 886 01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:30.239 So unless he was asleep at the switch, Oswald was able to sit 887 01:10:30.359 --> 01:10:34.680 in a weapon, you know, without firing it, which from my understanding, 888 01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:38.600 if you have to be assemble the Carkano in any way, shape or 889 01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:41.159 form, you're gonna have to site it back in because the thing is not 890 01:10:41.279 --> 01:10:45.039 going to be accurate to be fired through the iron sights like they used to 891 01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:46.880 love to tell us about, you know, despite the fact that the scope 892 01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:49.359 would also be a hindrance. I mean, you know, well, and 893 01:10:49.680 --> 01:10:51.600 you know, we also might want to add in the fact that there were 894 01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:57.520 four other people in the building that never get mentioned. There were you know, 895 01:10:57.640 --> 01:11:00.119 Doerty being one of them, that might have been in the fit the 896 01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:02.840 sixth floor, depending on which version of his testimony you look at. And 897 01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:06.359 then he becomes somebody with an emotional problem that gets turned over to his parents 898 01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:11.520 and allowed to leave, even though he was trained in the army. This 899 01:11:11.760 --> 01:11:15.439 is true. And there's also the strange case of Charles Gibbons, who you 900 01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:18.640 know, returns up there. They pressure him, I mean, read his 901 01:11:18.760 --> 01:11:25.319 testimony sometime and imagine what goes on, Yeah, or Fraser when they tried 902 01:11:25.319 --> 01:11:29.199 to get Fraser to sign the fidavit saying that he was related to Oswald, 903 01:11:30.199 --> 01:11:32.840 right, you know, I mean all sorts of pressuring of witnesses, which 904 01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:38.359 is kind of weird if you're doing an investigation, you know well, and 905 01:11:38.479 --> 01:11:43.079 we know how much of an investigation they really wanted. Another document that will 906 01:11:43.119 --> 01:11:45.439 have to we can discuss on linked one night. But I have a document 907 01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:48.560 from the Weisberg archives and it's a private conversation with Hoover telling them that they 908 01:11:48.600 --> 01:11:53.319 don't want a commission. Johnson and Hoover just wanted the FBI, you know, 909 01:11:53.439 --> 01:11:59.800 investigation with all three days and in a week to have everything done. 910 01:12:00.439 --> 01:12:05.520 I've actually got a recording of that conversation between Johnson and Hoover where they're actually 911 01:12:05.560 --> 01:12:11.760 discussing that how and you can clearly hear Johnson on the tape saying, I 912 01:12:11.960 --> 01:12:15.880 just saying to Hoover, I just want you guys, get away with you 913 01:12:15.960 --> 01:12:18.560 guys just filing your report that he didn't want to commission. I've actually got 914 01:12:18.640 --> 01:12:23.720 that phone conversation on a CD. I have just one other thing that I 915 01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:28.399 wanted to bring up about the sixth floor and so on, and Oswald bringing 916 01:12:28.439 --> 01:12:31.439 the rifle in is He also got the story of Bonnie Ray Williams, who 917 01:12:31.640 --> 01:12:36.199 was sitting up on the sixth floor his lunch from about against him but just 918 01:12:36.279 --> 01:12:42.319 before twelve o'clock, and he said that he came back down, you know, 919 01:12:42.560 --> 01:12:46.199 sometime around twelve fifteen or twelve twenty. Well, this would have had 920 01:12:46.239 --> 01:12:49.720 to have been at the time where Oswald was constructing the quote unquote sniper's nest. 921 01:12:49.840 --> 01:12:55.520 But Bonnie Ray Williams didn't hear anything. He was on the sixth floor. 922 01:12:55.520 --> 01:13:00.720 And yet you've got someone supposedly moved pulling boxes into the big formation there 923 01:13:00.039 --> 01:13:04.359 and you don't hear anything, and you're sitting on the same floor. One 924 01:13:04.359 --> 01:13:09.920 of the key points of accuracy. Actually in the movie JFK is Bondie Ray 925 01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:14.600 Williams is on the sixth floor eating his lunch and he sees nobody. Yeah, 926 01:13:15.199 --> 01:13:19.760 yeah, so is Oswald lying in wait in the sniper's nest the entire 927 01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:28.680 time? Well if that's the case, when did he build it that which 928 01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:32.399 they were moving? Yea. Not only that, he's gotta put together the 929 01:13:32.520 --> 01:13:38.399 rifle apparently using a dime. Oh well, that's the other problem is that, 930 01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:45.640 you know, and and Ian griggs demonstration on this is is most hilarious 931 01:13:46.319 --> 01:13:50.760 because, uh, it just illustrates the point, Uh, he has no 932 01:13:50.920 --> 01:13:55.279 tools on him in order to put this thing together. If you're going to 933 01:13:55.359 --> 01:13:59.560 assemble it with a dime, okay, fine, but you ought to see 934 01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:03.439 how how much effort that actually takes, even if it's partially disascepled. You 935 01:14:03.520 --> 01:14:06.920 got a problem, you know, And and uh, it's just on and 936 01:14:08.039 --> 01:14:11.399 on and on and on, and what's wrong. Then there's a brown wrapping 937 01:14:11.479 --> 01:14:14.720 paper that he supposedly wrapped the rifle in to bring it to work, and 938 01:14:15.279 --> 01:14:19.000 that there is no photo of, there's an outline floor, there's no one, 939 01:14:20.479 --> 01:14:27.800 no one ever seeing him take the wrapping paper basically of two pieces six 940 01:14:27.920 --> 01:14:30.439 feet long. And when did he take it back to Ruth pays with him? 941 01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:33.119 And how did he get it back? There was nobody seeing him carry 942 01:14:33.159 --> 01:14:36.720 it. And I think that that leads us almost perfectly whenever you're ready to 943 01:14:36.760 --> 01:14:46.079 chuck for opportunity, well and and and that's exactly it the motive and means 944 01:14:47.039 --> 01:14:51.399 okay, so what is left, Well, let's go with opportunity. And 945 01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:56.239 even though if we were in a court of law and we had completely you 946 01:14:56.319 --> 01:15:03.920 know, deconstructed this right, if that had happened, we would already not 947 01:15:04.119 --> 01:15:14.039 have a case. But let's continue forward. Anyway, opportunity carline, do 948 01:15:14.079 --> 01:15:19.680 you want to open that one. Sure, So can you hear me? 949 01:15:19.720 --> 01:15:23.359 Okay, because you kind of blinked out there for a second. So I'm 950 01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:25.840 sorry if I talked over you at all. No, it's okay, I've 951 01:15:25.880 --> 01:15:29.760 got you fine. I think Charles is still with us, Okay, Yeah, 952 01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:33.560 as we I? Yeah, I as you. I and Charles prior 953 01:15:33.600 --> 01:15:40.159 to discussed, you know, Zach Trish, everybody pretty much the timeline does 954 01:15:40.239 --> 01:15:44.640 not work. And where it really falls apart in my opinion, and I 955 01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:47.159 was happy to be able to find these things and share them with my fellow 956 01:15:47.199 --> 01:15:53.479 researchers and friends, is that Oswald, at maximum, based on the timeline 957 01:15:53.520 --> 01:15:57.199 the commission and the evidence they gave us on him, has seventy two hours 958 01:15:57.319 --> 01:16:00.239 or less. And in my I would contend he has less than forty eight 959 01:16:00.279 --> 01:16:05.720 hours to get everything done. Now. That is because it was not released 960 01:16:05.720 --> 01:16:13.600 to the newspapers until November nineteenth in the morning edition five am. Is what 961 01:16:13.720 --> 01:16:18.119 I've been told was when that came out that Kennedy was going to pass the 962 01:16:18.159 --> 01:16:26.439 school book depository, the full route was not available until then. So let's 963 01:16:26.479 --> 01:16:30.560 say that Oswald was standing on the corner of the street at five oh one 964 01:16:30.760 --> 01:16:34.399 and give him all the time we possibly can. He grabs it as it 965 01:16:34.560 --> 01:16:38.479 flies out of someone's hand, and he sees that Kennedy's going to be there. 966 01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:41.119 So now the clock starts. First thing you have to do is you 967 01:16:41.199 --> 01:16:45.520 have to remove three nights of sleep that you know that can vary. Let's 968 01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:46.840 say six to eight hours. He was known to go to bed early, 969 01:16:47.079 --> 01:16:50.920 and he did on the night before the assassination. That's true. So let 970 01:16:51.039 --> 01:16:54.920 us say that you know, we'll do We'll be nice. We'll say six 971 01:16:55.039 --> 01:16:58.680 times three is twelve. Now we're down to sixty hours. Now three days 972 01:16:58.720 --> 01:17:00.800 of work. Now there you can't cut corners. It's about eight hours a 973 01:17:00.880 --> 01:17:06.359 day, so eight a eight twenty four. Now we are below forty hours. 974 01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:11.560 Well, six times three if you give him three nineteen is eighteen, 975 01:17:12.359 --> 01:17:17.199 so so sixty fifty, so forty two hours left. And that's now at 976 01:17:17.279 --> 01:17:21.760 in eating and he associating, he did all of the activities that the commission 977 01:17:21.840 --> 01:17:29.000 says he did. And in all of this there's no practice he spends. 978 01:17:29.359 --> 01:17:33.039 He chooses to spend these most critical points at the pain's house, eating dinner 979 01:17:33.560 --> 01:17:38.159 and going to bed early at nine o'clock. Now, as Charles just said, 980 01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:42.720 when does he create the bag, When does he take apart the rifle? 981 01:17:43.039 --> 01:17:45.039 How does no one see him? You know? Does he do it 982 01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:47.840 early in the morning, Well, there's other people up and around two. 983 01:17:48.079 --> 01:17:53.880 He doesn't live there alone in the pain home. So there's all these opportunities 984 01:17:53.920 --> 01:17:56.640 once again that he's going to be discovered. So he makes not a single 985 01:17:56.760 --> 01:18:01.840 mistake from there all the way to the power until he shoots. Then he 986 01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:05.239 starts making mistakes again. And if you look at his record, Oswald makes 987 01:18:05.279 --> 01:18:13.399 mistakes. He's not known to do a lot of perfectly exemplary plots. No, 988 01:18:13.600 --> 01:18:16.760 it seems that every time he does something, it does seem to backfire 989 01:18:16.840 --> 01:18:20.680 on him in one way or another, sometimes literally. Indeed, you know 990 01:18:21.399 --> 01:18:26.479 again a guy who shot himself in the leg. Okay, yeah, this 991 01:18:26.680 --> 01:18:31.760 is the man who they are saying can by himself in forty eight hours or 992 01:18:31.800 --> 01:18:35.960 less, pull everything off without a mistake. And that, to me is 993 01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:41.880 the most improbable thing of all. Is the commission painted themselves into an evidentiary 994 01:18:41.960 --> 01:18:45.279 corner, right, so they surrender the point of actually, you know, 995 01:18:45.039 --> 01:18:51.239 creating a a a plausible motive, and they have absolutely no opportunity in your 996 01:18:51.399 --> 01:18:58.560 estimation, Charles what do you think about Oswald's opportunity as per the official story. 997 01:19:00.119 --> 01:19:03.000 Further, what Carmine was saying, so that from the time he gets 998 01:19:03.119 --> 01:19:06.079 to the book depository in the morning, which I think with around eight am 999 01:19:06.279 --> 01:19:12.239 or just after eight am, he's got to take this run. He's got 1000 01:19:12.279 --> 01:19:15.520 to find a place where he's going to be storing his rifle for a proximately 1001 01:19:15.920 --> 01:19:17.840 three three and a half hours, and he's got to be able to put 1002 01:19:17.920 --> 01:19:23.279 it somewhere where nobody else is going to find it, but yet it's going 1003 01:19:23.359 --> 01:19:27.920 to be readily available to him around eleven thirty noon, where he's going to 1004 01:19:28.039 --> 01:19:33.560 have to go upstairs and you know, construct the sniper's nest. Now, 1005 01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:39.600 everybody that was on the sixth floor I think went down for lunch at some 1006 01:19:40.039 --> 01:19:44.920 sometime in round ten or five to twelve. So once they go down for 1007 01:19:45.039 --> 01:19:53.520 lunch, that gives Oswald thirty five minutes to go up construct the sniper's nest, 1008 01:19:53.600 --> 01:20:00.079 which I think he used something like eighteen boxes right to something like eighteen 1009 01:20:00.199 --> 01:20:05.520 boxes. And the fact that he's got to then assemble the rifle in the 1010 01:20:05.600 --> 01:20:10.079 boxes and all that. We seem to have lost Charles by the way, 1011 01:20:10.600 --> 01:20:15.520 but I'll just continue on with his point. You know, all of this 1012 01:20:15.680 --> 01:20:18.760 going on, and yet he is seen by no one with the rifle. 1013 01:20:18.840 --> 01:20:24.520 He's seen by no one doing this action of creating the sniper's nest. I 1014 01:20:24.680 --> 01:20:28.760 used to love Bill Hicks commentary on this. Exactly how great that the six 1015 01:20:28.800 --> 01:20:33.880 floor museum was. This sixth floor museum is so wonderful because it's entirely historically 1016 01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:38.760 accurate. If you look in the window at the sixth floor, Oswald isn't 1017 01:20:38.760 --> 01:20:45.439 in it. Exactly, It's beautiful. And yes, but go ahead, 1018 01:20:45.560 --> 01:20:48.079 yeah, yeah, to go off of, to go off of what Charles 1019 01:20:48.199 --> 01:20:54.960 was stating. Yeah, I mean, it's then he somehow has to find 1020 01:20:55.039 --> 01:21:00.359 the holes in the fractional you know, moments when people are moving around him 1021 01:21:00.359 --> 01:21:02.000 at all times, to go downstairs or come back up and get other people 1022 01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:08.640 to go back downstairs and watch the motorcade. And it's late. So even 1023 01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:12.319 if he had planned it down to the minute, the plans were foiled because 1024 01:21:12.319 --> 01:21:16.560 they were ten minutes late. Exactly. Oh, I know that that's a 1025 01:21:16.680 --> 01:21:20.199 huge part of the equation here, is that the motorcade comes late. So 1026 01:21:20.399 --> 01:21:26.520 even whatever he had planned out, you know, allegedly, yeah, still 1027 01:21:26.600 --> 01:21:30.319 doesn't come together properly because the motorcade is late. Plus you have all of 1028 01:21:30.399 --> 01:21:34.159 these sort of variables happening here. What if somebody doesn't want to go down 1029 01:21:34.239 --> 01:21:38.479 for lunch, What if somebody didn't have lunch that day? Yeah, you 1030 01:21:38.560 --> 01:21:41.439 know what if you guys end up talking for what? He's got all sorts 1031 01:21:41.479 --> 01:21:45.359 of variables to have to deal with there that he just gets so lucky? 1032 01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:49.840 Exactly how much luck and how many coincidences are necessary to make this come off? 1033 01:21:49.920 --> 01:21:56.720 And unfortunately it seems like far too many exactly? And it's okay, 1034 01:21:56.840 --> 01:22:00.239 Charles, we know we can. We can continued on with your point, 1035 01:22:00.399 --> 01:22:05.600 sir, not today, not today, But it's okay. We we filled 1036 01:22:05.640 --> 01:22:14.439 in the gap. You've caught some of the same disease that I get every 1037 01:22:14.479 --> 01:22:20.479 now and then. So it's okay, it'll it'll pass, sir. But 1038 01:22:21.760 --> 01:22:29.359 so opportunity here is really pretty well destroyed in my estimation again, Yeah, 1039 01:22:29.600 --> 01:22:33.680 okay, And let me say this, there is absolutely no part of the 1040 01:22:33.760 --> 01:22:42.880 official evidence that doesn't have problems, contradictions, implausible scenarios. I mean, 1041 01:22:43.319 --> 01:22:48.359 it's endless. The amounts of difficulty with trying to put together a coherent case 1042 01:22:49.159 --> 01:23:00.239 against the loan assassin in my estimation. No, go ahead, Charles pard, 1043 01:23:00.239 --> 01:23:02.960 I find him. So let's say Oswald goes through the shooting, he 1044 01:23:03.039 --> 01:23:10.199 shoots Kennedy. So at that point he doesn't know whether anybody looked up and 1045 01:23:10.399 --> 01:23:13.960 saw him, you know, shooting. Anyone down in the crowd could have 1046 01:23:14.199 --> 01:23:16.640 looked up, saw him in the window, firing a right boot or anything 1047 01:23:16.720 --> 01:23:20.279 like that. But yet he goes down stairs and walks out the front door, 1048 01:23:20.840 --> 01:23:25.279 not knowing if anybody has viewed him. For all he knows, he 1049 01:23:25.399 --> 01:23:28.800 goes down walks on the front door. Four or five people are saying, 1050 01:23:28.800 --> 01:23:30.279 hey, there's the guy that was up there, there's the guy we saw. 1051 01:23:30.960 --> 01:23:36.560 But he waltzes leisurely out the front door, right, and again, 1052 01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:40.560 what do you have when you look to the people that might have saw him, 1053 01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:42.680 could have seen him, et cetera, et cetera. He got one 1054 01:23:42.760 --> 01:23:46.560 newsman that claims he saw a barrel sticking out of the window. You have 1055 01:23:46.760 --> 01:23:53.000 amos Ewens who gives a completely different account of what he saw. I think 1056 01:23:53.039 --> 01:23:55.640 he was confused about who was on the fifth floor and who was on the 1057 01:23:55.720 --> 01:24:00.479 sixth floor. But he was a kid. Okay. You have then Howard 1058 01:24:00.520 --> 01:24:09.079 Brennan, the star witness for the War Commission, the man who changed his 1059 01:24:09.239 --> 01:24:17.520 story three times? Oh oh did he and never actually positivetively identified Oswald for 1060 01:24:17.680 --> 01:24:23.800 almost a month, even though he was showing him in a lineup that night. 1061 01:24:24.520 --> 01:24:28.479 Yeah, and well, and they say that he positively identified him. 1062 01:24:29.359 --> 01:24:33.079 I'm sorry. When you have multiple versions of testimony, it's questionable. I'm 1063 01:24:33.079 --> 01:24:36.159 not I'm not saying we can rule out what he said, but if we're 1064 01:24:36.199 --> 01:24:40.039 going you know, there has to be an equal amount of consistency in how 1065 01:24:40.079 --> 01:24:43.159 we treat all the witnesses. So if we're going to rule out, you 1066 01:24:43.199 --> 01:24:46.199 know, conspiracy pro conspiracy witnesses who change their testimony, then he gets ruled 1067 01:24:46.239 --> 01:24:50.560 out too. Yes. Plus plus he's got a problem with his eyesight. 1068 01:24:51.199 --> 01:24:56.119 Yeah, that's a reality. Oh some said that didn't happen until afterwards. 1069 01:24:56.119 --> 01:25:00.199 But I know that's a topic of debate. Sure, okay, so we'll 1070 01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:04.119 put that aside. Fine, But here's the fun part for me, which 1071 01:25:04.199 --> 01:25:10.800 is a description goes out over the Dallas police radio of an individual that supposedly 1072 01:25:10.880 --> 01:25:15.479 did the shooting. I have never found. You know, there is the 1073 01:25:16.079 --> 01:25:23.880 assumption that Brennan is the source for a description, which includes height, approximate 1074 01:25:24.399 --> 01:25:30.760 weight, race, You know, a lot of detail to be seeing standing 1075 01:25:30.800 --> 01:25:34.119 on the ground looking six floors up when you know, ostensibly you're being distracted 1076 01:25:34.159 --> 01:25:38.680 by the commotion in front of you and the fact that you were there to 1077 01:25:38.760 --> 01:25:42.479 watch the motorcade with the president in it, to begin with a whole lot 1078 01:25:42.560 --> 01:25:46.479 of detail that this guy snapshot at for everybody, if he is in fact 1079 01:25:46.520 --> 01:25:54.520 the source for that description. I've actually gone down and stood where Howard Brennan 1080 01:25:54.640 --> 01:25:58.560 was standing, and I looked at the sixth floor when I was in Dallas. 1081 01:25:59.199 --> 01:26:01.760 Now you've been probably get some general features of the guy. I don't 1082 01:26:01.760 --> 01:26:05.399 see how a guy standing there is going to get that detailed of a description 1083 01:26:05.560 --> 01:26:12.039 of a guy standing that far down. Just to me, well, he 1084 01:26:12.159 --> 01:26:17.319 was what was he under two hundred feet? I know two hundred feet is 1085 01:26:17.319 --> 01:26:23.199 when things get really blurry. I've looked at just vision charts because I was 1086 01:26:23.239 --> 01:26:27.039 trying to figure out, you know, exactly how consistent some of the witness 1087 01:26:27.039 --> 01:26:29.600 sestem and it could have been depending at the distance and Brennan's right on the 1088 01:26:29.680 --> 01:26:32.159 cusp. If I think it was like one hundred and twenty maybe one hundred 1089 01:26:32.159 --> 01:26:35.279 and forty feet, So it's yeah, it's you can make out colors, 1090 01:26:35.600 --> 01:26:40.600 you can make out, you know, more vague descriptive things, but to 1091 01:26:40.680 --> 01:26:45.039 really get features and stuff, it's it's difficult over one hundred feet. It's 1092 01:26:45.039 --> 01:26:47.359 almost impossible to two hundred feet unless you have really good vision. Yeah, 1093 01:26:47.479 --> 01:26:53.079 through windows in a commercial slash industrial area there you go too. If the 1094 01:26:53.079 --> 01:26:56.279 window's on the cracked so that you can only see the arms and the gun, 1095 01:26:56.399 --> 01:26:59.720 then that's really and the windows there, you know, even now in 1096 01:27:00.039 --> 01:27:02.479 the museum format are still not you know crystal. Yeah, yeah, at 1097 01:27:02.560 --> 01:27:05.880 the time where shots are going off and there's a lot of commotion all around 1098 01:27:05.960 --> 01:27:13.000 you, right right exactly, I mean, where is it that this guy 1099 01:27:13.279 --> 01:27:17.479 got to see? And meanwhile, he's really the only one that that tags 1100 01:27:17.560 --> 01:27:24.720 Oswald with the shooting, you know, that's our witness. That's that's what 1101 01:27:24.880 --> 01:27:29.000 this whole thing really hinges upon. Without him, without even that singular witness, 1102 01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:32.720 they've got nobody. And of course there are more witnesses that saw other 1103 01:27:33.840 --> 01:27:42.159 descriptions shooting. This is the other problem is that he's actually outnumbered by individuals 1104 01:27:42.199 --> 01:27:45.359 who have different accounts. I mean, look, I can dismiss amos Ewans 1105 01:27:45.239 --> 01:27:48.960 because he understood there was a commotion in that general area. He looked up 1106 01:27:49.640 --> 01:27:55.640 and prominently, sitting on a windowsill were two guys, you know. And 1107 01:27:57.119 --> 01:28:00.840 hey, I can't account for what somebody's level of observation is, necessarily, 1108 01:28:01.439 --> 01:28:06.079 but it seems to me as though he sort of created a composite in his 1109 01:28:06.239 --> 01:28:11.960 mind of what was going on and assumed that the individuals that caught his site 1110 01:28:12.079 --> 01:28:16.239 first were involved. So this is why you actually have a description of what 1111 01:28:16.560 --> 01:28:21.680 he said was a colored man shooting, you know. And meanwhile, and 1112 01:28:21.920 --> 01:28:25.560 don't give me the crap about how I said color. Just now, this 1113 01:28:25.760 --> 01:28:29.960 is a black kid using the terms of the time in nineteen sixty three, 1114 01:28:30.399 --> 01:28:34.039 he was describing someone who was not white as colored exactly. And this, 1115 01:28:34.279 --> 01:28:36.880 you know, when we're talking about historical research, if people can't make that 1116 01:28:36.960 --> 01:28:44.359 distinci, they might want to tune into something else. So just but that 1117 01:28:44.560 --> 01:28:47.680 note aside, you know, what do we have left here? I mean, 1118 01:28:47.800 --> 01:28:53.000 is there any other sort of way that you know, opportunity can rise? 1119 01:28:53.600 --> 01:28:58.960 Now, when it comes to the Tippet shooting, opportunity again is questionable. 1120 01:28:59.119 --> 01:29:03.159 However, I will say this, this scenario is a lot more likely. 1121 01:29:03.720 --> 01:29:08.079 Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't think you know, as I'm 1122 01:29:08.119 --> 01:29:12.079 sure from our repeated discussions on and off the air, you know that I 1123 01:29:12.199 --> 01:29:16.560 do not support the official story. I think the Tippitt shooting at least as 1124 01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:21.159 possible as where the Kennedy shooting is highly improbable because of all the factors that 1125 01:29:21.239 --> 01:29:25.199 weigh against it. With motive means an opportunity with motive means an opportunity. 1126 01:29:25.239 --> 01:29:28.199 With Tippet, he had the gun, so he had the means. I 1127 01:29:28.239 --> 01:29:30.840 mean, it wasn't a great gun. It was modified improperly, or it 1128 01:29:31.000 --> 01:29:36.239 was modified in an amateurish way, so still difficult to put in his hands. 1129 01:29:36.319 --> 01:29:41.079 And just for the clarification of the listeners, you're talking about a gun 1130 01:29:41.119 --> 01:29:45.199 which was exported from the US and actually the barrel remachined so that it could 1131 01:29:45.239 --> 01:29:51.960 handle I think British ammunition and then reintroduced, re imported back into the US 1132 01:29:53.960 --> 01:29:59.439 and supposedly you know, usable with again the US standard on the ammo. 1133 01:30:00.199 --> 01:30:04.039 All right, And I mean that's the basics of this, the lineage of 1134 01:30:04.119 --> 01:30:08.439 this weapon. And of course again difficult to put it in his hands. 1135 01:30:08.560 --> 01:30:12.199 But let's just assume we can put it in his hands. Yeah, uh, 1136 01:30:13.000 --> 01:30:15.600 you know, and at least at least they have a motive escape, 1137 01:30:15.439 --> 01:30:20.760 right, Well, it's something Here's Here's always been my problem with that handgun. 1138 01:30:20.960 --> 01:30:24.920 Also, not only you know, the you know, the chain of 1139 01:30:25.000 --> 01:30:27.840 events that puts it in his hand. Forget that for just a minute, 1140 01:30:28.520 --> 01:30:33.359 but you know, for somebody that's thinking about shooting the president with a rifle 1141 01:30:33.520 --> 01:30:38.479 from a distance, wouldn't it be kind of helpful to have a handgun with 1142 01:30:38.680 --> 01:30:42.479 you so that in case somebody did attempt to capture you, you could do 1143 01:30:42.680 --> 01:30:45.560 what they alleged him to have done in the case of JD. Tibbett. 1144 01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:51.199 Yeah, you know, good to have an extra weapon. I would imagine 1145 01:30:51.840 --> 01:31:00.119 you beat yourself out with a rifle in one bullet. Yeah, that's not 1146 01:31:00.239 --> 01:31:03.159 going to happen, exactly, the one round that was still left in the 1147 01:31:03.760 --> 01:31:08.880 in the weapon. This is not a plausible way by which somebody's gonna achieve 1148 01:31:09.039 --> 01:31:12.880 escape if they are now caught up in a you know, in the situation 1149 01:31:13.439 --> 01:31:15.560 that could have very easily ensued, because look, there's no guarantee that there 1150 01:31:15.560 --> 01:31:19.359 couldn't have been a whole lot more witnesses, not only outside of the depository 1151 01:31:19.439 --> 01:31:23.279 looking up, but I mean, how does he even know that, you 1152 01:31:23.359 --> 01:31:27.520 know, no worker is going to come back up for whatever reason. You 1153 01:31:27.600 --> 01:31:31.439 know, despite Gibbons going back up for his cigarettes he says and and stuff 1154 01:31:31.560 --> 01:31:35.520 like that at certain points. Well, well, well, yeah, you 1155 01:31:35.640 --> 01:31:40.079 know, how does he know that that's not going to happen. I would 1156 01:31:40.520 --> 01:31:44.279 if I was doing this and somehow decided it's you know, for less than 1157 01:31:44.319 --> 01:31:47.800 forty eight hours to do so, and had been you know, I guess 1158 01:31:48.079 --> 01:31:53.079 psychic and you know, inclined with psychic skills to know to make the bag 1159 01:31:53.159 --> 01:31:56.600 way in advance, so that you know, I would be ready and all 1160 01:31:56.680 --> 01:32:00.520 that I might have had the foresight to carry the sidearm with me, you 1161 01:32:00.640 --> 01:32:09.079 know, in case of those eventualities. But again, in the midst of 1162 01:32:09.119 --> 01:32:13.479 all this meticulous planning, that much sort of elluded him. And I know 1163 01:32:13.560 --> 01:32:16.600 I'm making but right, he's a flawless for the rest of it. I 1164 01:32:16.680 --> 01:32:19.159 mean, I don't know what else you want to say about the Tippet killing. 1165 01:32:20.159 --> 01:32:24.840 But even though it is also suspect and a mess, and you have 1166 01:32:25.000 --> 01:32:30.279 you know, improper witnesses and improper ballistics and times and the timeline, I 1167 01:32:30.359 --> 01:32:33.119 mean, well, where where do you want to stress on that one, 1168 01:32:33.199 --> 01:32:39.840 Charles hum a game with the magic bullet. There's a lot of issues there. 1169 01:32:40.279 --> 01:32:43.560 One of the biggest problems I've always had was that the slugs of the 1170 01:32:45.399 --> 01:32:47.359 that were apparently dumped out. I don't know why you stopped to dump the 1171 01:32:47.399 --> 01:32:53.520 slugs out, but uh, the they don't match the bullets because I believe 1172 01:32:53.560 --> 01:32:58.880 them both taken out of the tip it were I think with three Remingtons and 1173 01:32:59.319 --> 01:33:03.720 one win Chess, and the shelves were two Remington's and two Winchesters. So 1174 01:33:03.880 --> 01:33:09.239 it's strange how the bullets and the shelves in this case they don't match, 1175 01:33:09.319 --> 01:33:11.840 but they kind of skirt by that issue and don't make a big deal on 1176 01:33:11.960 --> 01:33:16.800 it. Yeah, he's ejecting the rounds as he's as he's walking away and 1177 01:33:16.920 --> 01:33:21.520 dropping him on the ground. Again not exactly very meticulous in his flight, 1178 01:33:24.079 --> 01:33:29.359 you know. And then uh the timing of uh, you know, the 1179 01:33:29.399 --> 01:33:33.159 paramedics coming to uh to uh pick tip it up. Who called the paramedics? 1180 01:33:34.640 --> 01:33:41.560 You know? Of course the cab driver scoggins. He runs up and 1181 01:33:41.720 --> 01:33:45.239 uses tip tip the squad car radio to radio into the police. But we 1182 01:33:45.359 --> 01:33:51.319 never do we even really know who actually called the paramedics. Yeah, no, 1183 01:33:51.439 --> 01:33:56.079 that's that's an issue that, uh, that should be brought up more 1184 01:33:56.119 --> 01:34:00.720 often that how quickly it took on Rob's request, I checked out with a 1185 01:34:00.840 --> 01:34:03.479 paramedic friend of mine and usually takes at least a few minutes to respond. 1186 01:34:03.600 --> 01:34:08.920 So unless these people are down the street waiting, it's going to take more 1187 01:34:09.000 --> 01:34:12.680 time. Then they're going to not just grab a body and throw it in. 1188 01:34:12.800 --> 01:34:14.800 They're going to check to see if he's alive. If he's dead, 1189 01:34:15.319 --> 01:34:17.840 they might wait for the police before they just take the body and mess up 1190 01:34:17.840 --> 01:34:23.880 the crime scene. Right, and Kim was an EMT also, Okay, 1191 01:34:24.399 --> 01:34:28.079 guess what, Yeah, they would have had to wait it for other police 1192 01:34:28.159 --> 01:34:31.640 to show up in order to secure evidence and things like that, especially you 1193 01:34:31.720 --> 01:34:33.840 know, given that, I mean, if they were trying to you know, 1194 01:34:33.960 --> 01:34:39.359 perform life saving you know actions, they might have taken certain actions. 1195 01:34:39.439 --> 01:34:43.479 But from my understanding, according to the autopsy, Tippet was pretty much dead 1196 01:34:43.560 --> 01:34:46.520 instantly. Yeah, you know, so when they got there, they knew 1197 01:34:46.560 --> 01:34:51.439 they had a cold body. You know, that was it so easy? 1198 01:34:51.560 --> 01:34:56.960 There's no reason to Russia. Russia won, right, So, I mean, 1199 01:34:57.039 --> 01:34:59.520 and that standard has been in place for a long time. I mean 1200 01:34:59.520 --> 01:35:01.439 people could say that, you know, while historically speaking, maybe they didn't 1201 01:35:01.479 --> 01:35:04.560 have the same standards. And you know what, I'll give them a point 1202 01:35:04.640 --> 01:35:10.920 there because considering the idiot they had pumping on Oswald's you know, gut shot, 1203 01:35:11.319 --> 01:35:15.319 trying to do CPR on him at city Hall on Sunday, you know, 1204 01:35:15.119 --> 01:35:18.760 maybe it does speak in some way to the quality of the medical professionals 1205 01:35:18.840 --> 01:35:23.880 and the individuals involved in first need in the Dallas area. I do I 1206 01:35:23.960 --> 01:35:27.760 do want to speak a little bit in defense and I know some people want 1207 01:35:27.760 --> 01:35:29.520 to be happy with this, but I would like to speak a little bit 1208 01:35:29.520 --> 01:35:32.000 in defense of the officials of Dallas. They were under a hell of a 1209 01:35:32.119 --> 01:35:36.039 gun. I mean, everything was being loaded onto them. The FBI was 1210 01:35:36.079 --> 01:35:42.039 going to blame them for everything no matter what they did, and the media 1211 01:35:42.199 --> 01:35:46.319 was on them. So you're right, there's massive incompetence. I would never 1212 01:35:46.359 --> 01:35:49.600 disagree with that. That's always been my contention. There's massive incompetence. But 1213 01:35:50.359 --> 01:35:56.880 I placed that incompetence on the leaders rather than the entire force. I guarantee 1214 01:35:56.920 --> 01:36:00.279 a majority of them did a decent job. Unfortunately we got the Keystone cops. 1215 01:36:01.079 --> 01:36:03.479 Well, yeah, a lot of them did try and that was one 1216 01:36:03.520 --> 01:36:05.800 of the things that I got to say in fairness, you know, after 1217 01:36:05.880 --> 01:36:10.760 speaking to a lot of these guys, you know, guys like guys like 1218 01:36:10.840 --> 01:36:14.560 Maddox and and guys even like and I know nobody likes it when I say 1219 01:36:14.640 --> 01:36:17.439 this, but even like a guy like Lavelle. These guys were trying to 1220 01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:24.039 do their job. They really were. They were misled by their you know, 1221 01:36:24.239 --> 01:36:28.479 captains and et cetera, et cetera. This is true, and you 1222 01:36:28.560 --> 01:36:31.159 know, everything just seemed to go against them. A lot of them ever 1223 01:36:31.239 --> 01:36:34.840 after felt like, you know, it was just sort of a black cloud 1224 01:36:34.920 --> 01:36:39.880 came in and it didn't leave until after, you know, after Ruby was 1225 01:36:40.800 --> 01:36:44.439 already off the scene there. But uh, you know, and we didn't 1226 01:36:44.439 --> 01:36:48.359 even get into that because of course, the commission then contends after all this 1227 01:36:48.560 --> 01:36:55.039 even though they have no motive, no means, no opportunity for Oswald to 1228 01:36:55.199 --> 01:37:00.520 have pulled off well not either homicide. In the case of Tippet, there 1229 01:37:00.560 --> 01:37:04.720 are possibilities, but in the case of Kennedy, I just it's a completely 1230 01:37:04.840 --> 01:37:10.479 untenable case in my estimation. Okay, now, after that, and they 1231 01:37:10.640 --> 01:37:16.359 have the world famous, most highly you know, recognizable known individual on the 1232 01:37:16.439 --> 01:37:23.359 planet at that point to have ever been arrested on live television. They let 1233 01:37:23.399 --> 01:37:28.960 this guy get shot in their custody, and that is supposed to also be 1234 01:37:29.560 --> 01:37:33.439 the act of a loan nut, a random nightclub owner who happened to just 1235 01:37:33.560 --> 01:37:40.600 walk down a ramp with nobody seeing them, just walked into position, then 1236 01:37:40.920 --> 01:37:44.840 walks in front of them and shoot them while surrounded by dozens of armed police 1237 01:37:44.960 --> 01:37:50.199 US. Oh yeah, which we know. We talked about this briefly. 1238 01:37:50.239 --> 01:37:56.760 I think on one of the older episodes. Is not the case because Ptdan 1239 01:37:57.439 --> 01:38:01.640 was influenced by one of them, the Commission staff, to not say that 1240 01:38:01.760 --> 01:38:06.720 he saw Ruby when he originally said he saw Ruby pass him, and Dean 1241 01:38:06.840 --> 01:38:12.560 was shady. Dean was just shady anyway. Yeah, I mean, let's 1242 01:38:12.680 --> 01:38:15.560 I mean, yeah, Dean could have created the story. That's possible. 1243 01:38:15.760 --> 01:38:18.479 But to me, just with the connections, you know, like Charles was 1244 01:38:18.520 --> 01:38:23.319 saying, they always presented Ruby as a just some nightclub owner. Well, 1245 01:38:23.359 --> 01:38:25.960 no, that's not who he is. They were wrong. They didn't have 1246 01:38:26.039 --> 01:38:30.319 all the files because Hoover and McCone both signed those affidavits saying that they didn't 1247 01:38:30.319 --> 01:38:32.920 know anything, which wasn't true. You know that there were hundreds of thousands 1248 01:38:32.920 --> 01:38:38.000 of files that were pertinent, and you know, some of them were Ruby. 1249 01:38:38.159 --> 01:38:42.119 That Ruby was an FBI informant in fifty nine. He was an unsuccessful 1250 01:38:42.159 --> 01:38:44.720 one. He didn't give them any information, according to the files, but 1251 01:38:44.880 --> 01:38:47.840 he was made you know, he was offered as a potential informant and they 1252 01:38:47.960 --> 01:38:51.880 tried to develop him. But that would Louver lied about all that. He 1253 01:38:51.920 --> 01:38:56.600 said there were no connections. Yeah, and if you mean to tell me, 1254 01:38:57.000 --> 01:39:00.680 and if you mean to tell me that because of Ruby's interaction in Cuba 1255 01:39:00.840 --> 01:39:03.600 and the fact that he was just merely present and that he had connections to 1256 01:39:03.760 --> 01:39:10.840 organized crime, figures that a guy like Dulles was not aware of any of 1257 01:39:10.960 --> 01:39:15.359 that exactly, especially when they're working with them on the Castro plots during the 1258 01:39:15.399 --> 01:39:20.159 same period, right. You know, So what are we talking about here? 1259 01:39:20.319 --> 01:39:26.079 More denial, more cover up and again motive means an opportunity are really 1260 01:39:26.159 --> 01:39:29.039 strange. This time you can put the means in the gun in the shooter's 1261 01:39:29.079 --> 01:39:32.039 hands. Yeah, he had it, that's for sure. Yeah, and 1262 01:39:32.239 --> 01:39:35.199 he knew how to use it. He actually, I guarantee that Jack had 1263 01:39:35.279 --> 01:39:40.960 fired a firearm before. Yeah, I'm willing to bet good money that Jack 1264 01:39:41.079 --> 01:39:45.239 Ruby had actually fired a weapon in his life. Yeah, that was that 1265 01:39:45.439 --> 01:39:49.840 was not his first time shooting, right, right, And his interaction with 1266 01:39:49.920 --> 01:39:55.760 the police is well documented and everything else. So gee, you have means 1267 01:39:56.600 --> 01:40:05.600 you have opportunity here in the Ruby k The motive though very questionable. I 1268 01:40:05.680 --> 01:40:09.079 had a motive, all right, but I don't think it's the motive we've 1269 01:40:09.119 --> 01:40:13.079 been told by them exactly. It doesn't. It doesn't appear, based in 1270 01:40:13.239 --> 01:40:15.000 my opinion, to a substantial amount of the evidence, does not support that 1271 01:40:15.159 --> 01:40:18.199 motive. You know, First they tried to divorce them from the mob, 1272 01:40:18.520 --> 01:40:21.800 which isn't the case. Then they try to divorce them from all the hundreds 1273 01:40:21.800 --> 01:40:25.520 of connections he had to the Dallas police, you know. And as you've 1274 01:40:25.560 --> 01:40:29.239 said before, that's a low ball statement. Maybe that was only the people 1275 01:40:29.279 --> 01:40:31.920 who was really close with but you know, I mean, we have police 1276 01:40:31.960 --> 01:40:36.000 officers saying it isn't uncommon to get a call from Jack Ruby, you know, 1277 01:40:36.199 --> 01:40:41.159 speaking of lowball statements. Just really quickly, Charles earlier said, you 1278 01:40:41.239 --> 01:40:45.399 know, in the custody, in the presence of dozens of Dallas police officers, 1279 01:40:45.920 --> 01:40:49.439 do you know what number I came to a long time ago on the 1280 01:40:49.720 --> 01:40:58.479 number of officers present. Seventy seventy. Wow, seventy, So that that's 1281 01:40:58.560 --> 01:41:01.439 my count. Let's just say I'm wrong by a little bit. That means 1282 01:41:01.600 --> 01:41:08.800 that let's just give me a margin of error of ten. We're talking five 1283 01:41:09.000 --> 01:41:14.399 dozen. Yeah, okay, somebody in there besides Dean, if Dean did 1284 01:41:14.520 --> 01:41:17.840 see him, likely knew him. Somebody. Yeah, you can't tell me 1285 01:41:17.960 --> 01:41:24.760 that out of sixty people, nobody went, oh, that's jack and funny. 1286 01:41:24.800 --> 01:41:28.760 In a situation like that, you would think if that were to really 1287 01:41:28.840 --> 01:41:31.840 happen, you would think in a situation like that, people in the police 1288 01:41:31.840 --> 01:41:36.079 department would be losing their jobs left and right. I never heard of one 1289 01:41:36.159 --> 01:41:40.439 person that did. No one was punished. I went to sire service punished. 1290 01:41:40.600 --> 01:41:45.760 Yet you bet a prisoner surrounded by armed police murdered right in front of 1291 01:41:45.840 --> 01:41:50.680 you, and nobody loses their job and there's no internal investigation, no, 1292 01:41:50.880 --> 01:41:56.640 nothing, right. And I will say, okay, and I'm being corrected 1293 01:41:56.720 --> 01:42:00.239 by a Skype message. All right, fine, I'll say that Oswall was 1294 01:42:00.279 --> 01:42:05.199 probably the highest profile prisoner in American history. Okay at that point in time. 1295 01:42:06.079 --> 01:42:10.840 That's what I would say. Maybe you were I did say world history, 1296 01:42:10.880 --> 01:42:14.600 and that's that's that's probably not true. You're right, you're right, 1297 01:42:14.840 --> 01:42:23.439 But leady, who they wound up hanging or anything else? Okay? Fine? 1298 01:42:23.640 --> 01:42:27.399 But in American history, you know what else do we have as far 1299 01:42:27.479 --> 01:42:30.840 as a prisoner. John Wilkes Booth is not a prisoner because he wasn't taken 1300 01:42:30.920 --> 01:42:38.880 into custodya they just shot him, right, so he was just killed, 1301 01:42:39.479 --> 01:42:43.439 you know, straight up, Uh, never taken into custody. So I 1302 01:42:43.479 --> 01:42:48.000 would say that, you know, he was he was definitely the most the 1303 01:42:48.159 --> 01:42:54.840 most infamous prisoner in American history, in US history. Okay, that's fine 1304 01:42:54.880 --> 01:42:57.119 by me. Do you guys, I had a couple of people trying to 1305 01:42:57.199 --> 01:43:00.399 call in. Do you guys want to take a couple of calls or do 1306 01:43:00.439 --> 01:43:02.319 you got closure thoughts here? Because I know we're getting down to like the 1307 01:43:02.399 --> 01:43:05.239 last fifteen minutes, believe it or not. How do you think if you 1308 01:43:05.359 --> 01:43:09.000 called? I'm good with that. Yeah, all right. If you want 1309 01:43:09.000 --> 01:43:12.680 to join in on the conversation, it's seven one eight seven one seven eight 1310 01:43:12.760 --> 01:43:15.119 two nine six. If you're on the Skype list, you can join in 1311 01:43:15.279 --> 01:43:18.479 also, I will add you right in. You can ask any questions you 1312 01:43:18.520 --> 01:43:23.840 want about what we've been discussing. That's all fine and dandy, but no 1313 01:43:24.000 --> 01:43:28.159 block numbers. No block numbers. Yes, I always do forget to say 1314 01:43:28.199 --> 01:43:30.760 that, thank you, Carmine, block numbers. I cannot accept your call 1315 01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:38.479 while I'm on the air, so they'll take a humanute. Feel free to 1316 01:43:38.800 --> 01:43:42.720 try to seek us out and scream at us somewhere. Yes, that's fine. 1317 01:43:43.720 --> 01:43:47.239 You know it's a Facebook like everybody else. Harmon and I are not 1318 01:43:47.399 --> 01:43:51.119 hard to find one. No, that's not hard to find neither am I. 1319 01:43:51.760 --> 01:43:57.560 Uh so you know you can direct your hate mail there if you like 1320 01:43:57.680 --> 01:44:00.119 it not. Also, I do have an email address Chuck C h U 1321 01:44:00.199 --> 01:44:04.520 c K seven to two at leos, which is spelled l y C O 1322 01:44:04.840 --> 01:44:11.199 S dot com. Maybe there'll be a hate mail show if you have a 1323 01:44:11.319 --> 01:44:18.199 phone call. Gentlemen, So let's see now, caller, you're on the 1324 01:44:18.239 --> 01:44:24.920 air. Hey, it's not David bon Payne, but I'll not be able 1325 01:44:24.960 --> 01:44:34.319 to fill the shoes for him. It sounds familiar, and Steve, I'll 1326 01:44:34.399 --> 01:44:39.159 tell you you're not gonna get fair air in the last few minutes here. 1327 01:44:39.560 --> 01:44:45.359 But I absolutely invite you to have a debate show with any of the participants 1328 01:44:45.399 --> 01:44:48.119 here that are willing to uh to discuss it with you, and you can 1329 01:44:48.199 --> 01:44:55.000 bring a partner, sir. Okay, that sounds good. Tut in near 1330 01:44:55.079 --> 01:45:00.560 future at your convenience. You let me know and I will fit into one 1331 01:45:00.600 --> 01:45:03.479 of the live broadcast nights and we'll do it. Okay. Well, I 1332 01:45:03.560 --> 01:45:09.520 just want to ask one question. Sure, Actually, how come you guys 1333 01:45:09.600 --> 01:45:14.560 ignoring the palm prant on the rifle and the palm prant on the bag? 1334 01:45:15.880 --> 01:45:20.560 Well? Pretty huh? I don't. I don't disagree with the palm print 1335 01:45:20.640 --> 01:45:25.960 on the rifle with the bag. My I think that there's questionable links as 1336 01:45:26.039 --> 01:45:30.239 far as the bag because it wasn't in the primary evidence right off. But 1337 01:45:30.760 --> 01:45:32.600 I'm not saying that it's not that there isn't. There isn't a palmprint on 1338 01:45:32.680 --> 01:45:34.560 the bag. He could have he could have touched the bag, he could 1339 01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:38.359 have touched the paper that made the bag. Now, the rifle, I 1340 01:45:38.720 --> 01:45:42.119 have never contented that it could have been his. That could be Oswald's rifle, 1341 01:45:42.159 --> 01:45:45.560 and based on what the evidence points towards, there's a good chance it 1342 01:45:45.680 --> 01:45:47.800 was his rifle. But once again, that doesn't mean he fired it, 1343 01:45:48.079 --> 01:45:51.119 and that doesn't mean he had the skill to fire it, right. That's 1344 01:45:51.159 --> 01:45:55.880 what I've given to say too, which is why I've ignored this and I've 1345 01:45:55.920 --> 01:46:00.039 seen people missing regarding it, you know, trying to make a lot of 1346 01:46:00.079 --> 01:46:04.640 statements. The chain of custody on the lift and all that is also questionable, 1347 01:46:05.279 --> 01:46:10.439 but not as questionable as some people like to make it seem. The 1348 01:46:10.560 --> 01:46:15.159 possibility that his pompprint wound up on that rifle, that's there, but again, 1349 01:46:15.359 --> 01:46:20.039 it doesn't put it in his hands at the time. You know, 1350 01:46:20.800 --> 01:46:26.239 I point out the problems with him taking possession of it, with him receiving 1351 01:46:26.359 --> 01:46:30.239 the delivery of it, because I think that's fair to bring up the idea 1352 01:46:30.319 --> 01:46:34.359 that that would point to him actually having possession of it. Well, you 1353 01:46:34.439 --> 01:46:38.800 know, it could just as easily have been achieved by somebody handing him that 1354 01:46:38.960 --> 01:46:44.079 rifle to examine. You know, it doesn't state exactly how that print got 1355 01:46:44.159 --> 01:46:47.239 there either. You know, there's more to it than just stating that there 1356 01:46:47.319 --> 01:46:50.479 is a print or there isn't a print in my estimation, which is why 1357 01:46:50.520 --> 01:46:54.479 I didn't bother to bring it up. Well, if I can also add 1358 01:46:54.520 --> 01:46:59.119 to that, and I'd say this conversely for the other side, which I 1359 01:46:59.199 --> 01:47:04.000 don't agree with. But theoretically Oswald also could have been a spotter. Oswald 1360 01:47:04.000 --> 01:47:06.760 could have handled the rifle. He might have been told to bring his rifle 1361 01:47:06.800 --> 01:47:11.319 and he gave it to the person who fired. I just think it's they 1362 01:47:11.359 --> 01:47:15.800 weren't able to prove that he fired it, and so there could be innocence 1363 01:47:15.840 --> 01:47:17.760 and guilt in there to assess to him. I just don't think it's the 1364 01:47:17.840 --> 01:47:21.279 innocence or guilt of the shots. And I was gonna say all the Karman 1365 01:47:21.479 --> 01:47:27.239 that could actually also account for Jack Doherty not being able to bring the rifle 1366 01:47:27.319 --> 01:47:31.800 into the building. Yeah. Well, of course we'll get into this little 1367 01:47:33.239 --> 01:47:39.520 later. But after I got several points, I blow that out of water 1368 01:47:43.359 --> 01:47:45.680 that I look forward to that. You know, Steve, I really came 1369 01:47:45.800 --> 01:47:51.680 into studying this case on your side. That's how I came into it. 1370 01:47:51.800 --> 01:47:56.159 I wanted to disprove all of the wackiness, and you know what I did 1371 01:47:56.279 --> 01:48:00.840 in a lot of cases. But then there was just two much, you 1372 01:48:00.920 --> 01:48:05.760 know, in my estimation, you know, but I still have an open 1373 01:48:06.039 --> 01:48:11.000 sort of mind regarding this. Actually, you know, I believe that it 1374 01:48:11.039 --> 01:48:15.600 would be very hard to convince me at this point, but Honestly, if 1375 01:48:15.640 --> 01:48:19.039 somebody could show me a logical sort of trail where we can go from A 1376 01:48:19.159 --> 01:48:24.000 to B to C that doesn't have, you know, that isn't full of 1377 01:48:24.119 --> 01:48:29.359 tons of holes, I'd be happy to Uh oh, okay, Charles dropped. 1378 01:48:29.359 --> 01:48:31.279 I thought Steve might have dropped. I'd be more than happy to switch 1379 01:48:31.359 --> 01:48:35.800 sides and go for what I consider to be the easy answer here, because 1380 01:48:35.840 --> 01:48:40.680 I'm left with not knowing who's actually guilty, and I don't state that Oswald 1381 01:48:40.760 --> 01:48:44.279 is innocent. By the way, I'm not one of those guys that Oswald 1382 01:48:44.359 --> 01:48:47.279 is innocent and that you know that there's absolutely no way that he was guilty 1383 01:48:47.319 --> 01:48:51.439 of anything exactly. You can't with what you know his actions. His own 1384 01:48:51.520 --> 01:48:57.680 actions imply that at the very least he was used, right right, That's 1385 01:48:57.800 --> 01:49:00.439 that's how I see it. But yeah, yeah, I understand, I 1386 01:49:00.479 --> 01:49:03.800 understand. You know, I'm saying, you guys are die hard type of 1387 01:49:04.560 --> 01:49:08.319 people, you know, Yeah, yeah, you know, we can certainly, 1388 01:49:08.439 --> 01:49:12.520 we can certainly go through all that you know at a later time and 1389 01:49:12.920 --> 01:49:16.880 uh go through it. I'd be interested to know what you think about Doherty 1390 01:49:16.960 --> 01:49:21.439 though. That's when I always like to throw to those who sport the Commission. 1391 01:49:21.560 --> 01:49:29.159 Yeah, yeah, Jack Dorty Seat Gordy was in the Army Air Force 1392 01:49:29.239 --> 01:49:34.079 during World War Two and he was prospectly forty years old in sixty three. 1393 01:49:35.479 --> 01:49:41.720 You know, he was questioned by the w c H. Well you know, 1394 01:49:41.840 --> 01:49:47.560 he's certainly in the building and uh and all that, but they did 1395 01:49:47.680 --> 01:49:54.119 thing a print him. They looked around for prints on the boxes and the 1396 01:49:54.199 --> 01:49:59.760 snipers nest it wasn't there, and uh, you know, no indication at 1397 01:49:59.800 --> 01:50:03.800 all all. Well he was being up there. You know. I think 1398 01:50:03.880 --> 01:50:11.159 what Carmines alluding to Steve is that Doherty actually stated, and I believe, 1399 01:50:11.359 --> 01:50:15.920 in a sworn statement, said that he saw Osbald enter the book depository and 1400 01:50:16.239 --> 01:50:20.560 Oswald was not carrying anything. Well, yeah, that's what Chuck said earlier. 1401 01:50:20.600 --> 01:50:24.720 But also he also in a statement he said that he was working on 1402 01:50:24.880 --> 01:50:29.640 the fifth or sixth floor, and then later on they said that he had 1403 01:50:29.680 --> 01:50:32.319 emotional problems and other things. But they really never did question him and he 1404 01:50:32.399 --> 01:50:41.520 wasn't called to testify. Yeah he was, but in it, Oh no, 1405 01:50:41.720 --> 01:50:45.640 Doherty was. Yeah, I'm sorry. So Doherty did testimony, but 1406 01:50:45.800 --> 01:50:48.560 he they never specifically asked him about where. They never got to where his 1407 01:50:48.680 --> 01:50:53.159 exact location was, whether it was on the upper floors or on the lower 1408 01:50:53.199 --> 01:50:59.199 floors. Well, yeah, there's he gave a pretty bad testimony where he 1409 01:50:59.399 --> 01:51:01.840 was. But uh, you know he said he glanced out of the corner 1410 01:51:01.840 --> 01:51:04.800 of the eye and when Oswood came in, I don't me and Oswald had 1411 01:51:04.840 --> 01:51:10.840 to walk in the building with the package. He came back to the loading 1412 01:51:10.920 --> 01:51:14.520 dot. He could have very well stuffed it out there and retrieve it later 1413 01:51:14.680 --> 01:51:17.239 or whatever. You know. But but you know, all this we can 1414 01:51:17.319 --> 01:51:20.439 go into a further detail, you know, Yeah, no, I we're 1415 01:51:20.479 --> 01:51:24.479 just glad to hear you. You know, we're more than happy to ye 1416 01:51:24.640 --> 01:51:27.319 to discuss the other side too, because there are it's not going to be, 1417 01:51:27.439 --> 01:51:29.560 in my opinion, one side or the other, it's going to be 1418 01:51:30.199 --> 01:51:34.039 both sides, and the most reasonable things about both sides likely working as one, 1419 01:51:34.520 --> 01:51:42.680 you know, conglomerated timeline right right now. I gotta I got no 1420 01:51:42.760 --> 01:51:46.760 problem with that, you know, just there's there's other things there that that 1421 01:51:46.920 --> 01:51:50.520 need to be discussed. You know, I mean, I'm saying pomp plain 1422 01:51:50.600 --> 01:51:57.319 on the bag and all that stuffs. See three excuseent He three ninety nine 1423 01:51:57.560 --> 01:52:04.960 was proven to be fired. Eve, all rifles and then you got you 1424 01:52:05.039 --> 01:52:10.439 got jarm and the rest of them flow down below. Hearing them, hearing 1425 01:52:10.479 --> 01:52:14.640 the shells at the floor and everything. You know, somebody was shooting up 1426 01:52:14.680 --> 01:52:18.880 there. Well, no, I agree with that. I'm not just doing 1427 01:52:18.960 --> 01:52:24.279 that either. You don't know. I'm just saying I'm not convict to it 1428 01:52:24.479 --> 01:52:29.960 was right now, I'll be willing to state that I'm certain that there's a 1429 01:52:30.039 --> 01:52:32.520 shooter on a higher floor of the book depository building. I'm not sure if 1430 01:52:32.560 --> 01:52:38.239 it's you know which floor it is precisely, but I'm sure that based on 1431 01:52:38.680 --> 01:52:42.560 a conglomeration of the evidence, you've got a shoot her from that elevation. 1432 01:52:42.680 --> 01:52:48.880 You've got to shoot her from that direction. So that's what I figure now. 1433 01:52:49.000 --> 01:52:53.439 As to what he actually struck. As to who that shooter was, 1434 01:52:54.600 --> 01:52:58.119 these things are questionable in my mind. That's that's where I'm at with it. 1435 01:52:58.439 --> 01:53:01.680 And was he the only shooter? Exactly? What do you think of 1436 01:53:02.119 --> 01:53:03.880 because I know you've heard of some of it, Steve, what do you 1437 01:53:03.920 --> 01:53:11.159 think of some of Sheriff Eister's trajectory analysis. I don't believe it. You 1438 01:53:11.239 --> 01:53:16.960 know, she's trying to do She's trying to do the shops from the South. 1439 01:53:17.079 --> 01:53:21.319 No, and then she's trying to interpret that over the Z film and 1440 01:53:21.439 --> 01:53:26.840 everything like that. I Mean, I just can't see how you interpret blood 1441 01:53:26.880 --> 01:53:30.840 splatter over a film versus the actual crime scene, you know. To me, 1442 01:53:31.000 --> 01:53:35.159 that's that's that's her op conjecture. Well, in part, in part, 1443 01:53:35.239 --> 01:53:40.600 she's utilizing the photographs that were taken by the Secret Service and the FBI 1444 01:53:40.920 --> 01:53:45.600 of the limo afterwards, which is you know, is separate from the Z 1445 01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:49.039 film. The Z film is you know, a raw shock test to a 1446 01:53:49.119 --> 01:53:51.520 lot of us. I mean, at this point you can you can sort 1447 01:53:51.560 --> 01:53:55.840 of interpret and see things in there if you want to, you know, 1448 01:53:56.840 --> 01:54:00.960 regarding specifics and and that's kind of the con illusion I had to come to 1449 01:54:00.119 --> 01:54:05.000 after exhaustively going through that thing. I Mean, I don't even want to 1450 01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:10.279 tell you the amount of time, effort, and money invested into that film 1451 01:54:10.359 --> 01:54:15.880 I have, you know, But yeah, I think, yeah, we 1452 01:54:15.960 --> 01:54:18.479 were saying, Charles, I was just gonna say that she's a trained forensic 1453 01:54:18.640 --> 01:54:24.640 effort. Yeah, and the stuff that she the techniques that she uses are 1454 01:54:25.079 --> 01:54:29.119 very common actually in that field. Oh yeah, no, they're they're they're 1455 01:54:29.159 --> 01:54:31.760 all approved and they're used by. I've checked out the forensic side of it. 1456 01:54:32.119 --> 01:54:35.000 I agree. Uh, you know, none of us are always going 1457 01:54:35.079 --> 01:54:39.000 to agree with everything anyone says, but I agree with a lot of what 1458 01:54:39.159 --> 01:54:42.479 she says. As far as the ballistics and the trajectory analysis, I think 1459 01:54:43.000 --> 01:54:45.000 it at least is open to possibility. You know, it might not be 1460 01:54:45.960 --> 01:54:50.880 definitive, but I think that it at least allows us to consider another feasible 1461 01:54:50.920 --> 01:54:56.600 possibility that could have occurred. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, I understand that. 1462 01:54:56.920 --> 01:55:00.640 And you know worth bullets. You know, well, that's well, 1463 01:55:00.680 --> 01:55:03.840 you know, then we get into the fragment that's yet recover any of the 1464 01:55:03.920 --> 01:55:09.399 bullets. Now, now we get into a whole other area and what happened 1465 01:55:09.399 --> 01:55:14.279 to the internal parts that the FBI seized the car. Yeah, there's all 1466 01:55:14.399 --> 01:55:16.399 kinds of stuff going on here. I mean, was there actually strike on 1467 01:55:16.520 --> 01:55:19.960 the turf on the other side of you know, of ELM was there? 1468 01:55:20.399 --> 01:55:24.560 I mean, there's all kinds of stuff. What exactly hit James Take in 1469 01:55:24.640 --> 01:55:27.159 the face. I didn't even realize that, Yeah, this might be a 1470 01:55:27.199 --> 01:55:30.520 sing you might need a single bullet episode. You just have both sides talk 1471 01:55:30.560 --> 01:55:34.720 about. There is a whole litany of problems relating to what happened to the 1472 01:55:34.760 --> 01:55:39.159 rest of the bullets, and that's one of those things that we're just not 1473 01:55:39.239 --> 01:55:43.199 gonna have time for. I've only got a few minutes left. I did 1474 01:55:43.279 --> 01:55:45.439 add Dylan into the discussion too, Dylan, did you have a question? 1475 01:55:47.079 --> 01:55:50.239 No, I really just called him to listen because the player kept going in 1476 01:55:50.319 --> 01:55:58.520 and out. Okay, sorry about that, but okay, I love thought 1477 01:55:58.640 --> 01:56:01.199 off here, but appreciate appreciate it. Yeah, I still love you guys. 1478 01:56:01.239 --> 01:56:09.319 Okay, yeah, absolutely, and Steve again, don't get me wrong 1479 01:56:09.399 --> 01:56:13.680 now, No, no, I love constructive criticism. It's so rare these 1480 01:56:13.760 --> 01:56:18.880 days. But if your answers are all correct and it turns out that you 1481 01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:24.079 were correct, I'll be the first one to say, you know, thank 1482 01:56:24.119 --> 01:56:29.319 you, because this is what I would like to see is a simple, 1483 01:56:29.520 --> 01:56:35.520 concise answer to what happened. You know. Finally, you say, it's 1484 01:56:35.640 --> 01:56:41.079 nice to be able to talk to someone that has different opinions and have it 1485 01:56:41.199 --> 01:56:45.920 be a civil discussion and not throwing back here. Yeah, absolutely, So 1486 01:56:46.119 --> 01:56:49.119 listen, guys, I'm gonna close things out here. Thanks Steve for calling, 1487 01:56:49.680 --> 01:56:57.520 and uh, get quick. Absolutely go ahead. Carmine. Okay, 1488 01:56:58.000 --> 01:57:00.000 if you're listening. Then you enjoyed the shows, Please try to stop by 1489 01:57:00.920 --> 01:57:04.600 t pok dot com t paak dot com. There'll be links to a lot 1490 01:57:04.680 --> 01:57:08.479 of the people that you heard here tonight and other great researchers. There's a 1491 01:57:08.520 --> 01:57:13.399 recommended section there. Please stop by Facebook dot com, slash nep MG and 1492 01:57:13.840 --> 01:57:17.800 capital n e A P Capital MG, and you can find myself, Charles, 1493 01:57:18.000 --> 01:57:23.039 Rob, Trish, Zach, everybody that's at Napolis Media Group on the 1494 01:57:23.119 --> 01:57:27.840 nep MG Facebook page. Also go to the Lone Gunman Podcast Facebook page, 1495 01:57:28.520 --> 01:57:30.800 which would you just type am in you'll find them there too, and Chuck 1496 01:57:30.840 --> 01:57:34.760 o'celly's Facebook page if you'd like, step by my writer Facebook page or Chuck's 1497 01:57:34.800 --> 01:57:40.119 public persona firstbook page, and please, I hope you'll listen and again, 1498 01:57:41.119 --> 01:57:44.159 really and I want to thank everybody who decided to give us the time tonight. 1499 01:57:44.239 --> 01:57:46.199 No matter what method you used or if you called us further on down 1500 01:57:46.239 --> 01:57:50.199 the stream, the o'celly effect is what you were listening to. And this 1501 01:57:50.680 --> 01:57:57.960 was the JFK Assassination Myths Episode number four, discussing what we believe to be 1502 01:57:58.039 --> 01:58:02.159 the official story and the mythology attached to it. Of course, We're going 1503 01:58:02.239 --> 01:58:06.079 to hear from the other side on this one, and I look forward to 1504 01:58:06.199 --> 01:58:12.000 a possible debate over these issues. So again, thanks for tuning in, 1505 01:58:12.199 --> 01:58:15.800 and if you want to catch any other archives, they are still available at 1506 01:58:15.960 --> 01:58:20.000 ucy dot tv, slash te and of course you can find me on oh 1507 01:58:20.399 --> 01:58:26.840 YouTube The Blind JFK Researcher all that. Charles Cliff, I really want to 1508 01:58:26.880 --> 01:58:29.359 thank you for stopping in, serve. Is there anywhere you want to direct 1509 01:58:29.359 --> 01:58:33.840 people to? Yeah, I've got on Facebook, I've got a discussion group. 1510 01:58:33.920 --> 01:58:42.000 It's the JFK Assassination Research Bureau, and also all the other sites that 1511 01:58:42.279 --> 01:58:46.239 Carmin mentioned, Mineapolis Media Group, Lone Glendon Podcast. Highly recommend both of 1512 01:58:46.279 --> 01:58:50.800 those as well. Right, and I do again thank all of you guys, 1513 01:58:51.119 --> 01:58:57.279 Rob Clark, Charles Cliff, Carmine Sabastano, Steve Rowe for stopping in 1514 01:58:57.800 --> 01:59:15.560 really quick. Just to make it stats don't count Scott Side a certain nas 1515 01:59:15.680 --> 01:59:19.920 you know kind of jun Scott Side walls certain time that ny donchas so thats 1516 01:59:20.000 --> 01:59:29.920 w t dus down Chas ty ps gon task trying n y tis time tip 1517 01:59:30.119 --> 01:59:36.720 us by night night m D. That's why I think that sounds like the 1518 01:59:38.279 --> 01:59:44.920 Snip any time than the Scot start attack and a guy tis n STOT type