WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.120 --> 00:01:45.040 The standing, those stands, the spellings, the most snow, some things 2 00:01:49.439 --> 00:04:15.040 I love and I won't spend, spend spend. The new neo platonist wine 3 00:04:15.079 --> 00:04:18.319 Mom is making a big fuss. So the way it works is you have 4 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:21.519 to request to speak, y'all, hold on, I gotta turn the air 5 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:27.759 on. It's gonna get hot here. He's about to get hot. It's 6 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:38.360 getting hot in here. It's getting hot in here. So put on all 7 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:46.399 y'all clothes, two or three layers and sweat some mo what's up, y'all? 8 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:48.959 Welcome as you know, it's open for him? Where's this crazy woman? 9 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:54.360 The way it works, guys, as you request to speak, When 10 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:57.600 you request to speak, I give you the microphone and you get to come 11 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:02.560 on and you get to say whatever arguments you want within reason, within obviously 12 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:12.360 the terms of service. The toss the t os, baby, the t 13 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:16.279 and them tosses. If you don't stay within the tows, you get toused 14 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:21.439 out of here. Is there boy having fun today? It's a it's a 15 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:29.480 hot Monday. Because you put on more clothes. Everybody hit like and share. 16 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:31.439 I really want the angry wine mom to come in here. I mean 17 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:35.680 she was dipping into that Fransias since seven am, it looks like, and 18 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:41.560 she's over here. She's about ready to tell us about Hypashia. She's explaining 19 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:46.759 to me that I don't understand the great mysteries of neo Platonism and hypatia. 20 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.480 And then I'm scared to debate the Pagans, even though we have offered open 21 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:55.959 forum all the time over here for pagans. The Pagans usually are the ones 22 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:00.160 that freak out. They're like, I'm about ready to fight you in real 23 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:08.279 life. Remember that one guy now now now the Australian pig. And now, 24 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:15.399 the way it works, as you know, you guys know, is 25 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:18.639 you request to speak, I give it the microphone. You make whatever arguments 26 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:23.519 you want. Now remember typically we want to stick to arguments. My feelings 27 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:25.480 are not going to be hurt. If you want to call and say that 28 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:29.680 I'm the worst person ever, it doesn't bother me. I'm sure many of 29 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:32.000 you think that. Let's just get that established from the outset. I am 30 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:35.160 the worst person on the Internet. I won that award last year. Chase 31 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:40.199 Haggard gave it to me Worst Person on the Internet award. I've got it 32 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:47.000 hanging up above the toilet, and so we don't have to debate that anymore. 33 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:51.879 So I can see the debate about whose worst Internet man I am. 34 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:56.160 I'm the KGB sorcer. In fact, I have right here in front of 35 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.399 me this wonderful gift that I got from my buddy Mark Hackard, and this 36 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:09.959 is the Minox preferred This is the KGB's preferred Cold War spycamera. Pretty cool. 37 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:15.759 It's an actual Minox spycamera. Comes with this cool leather spycase. It's 38 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:21.279 the leather Soviet edition. And it's funny because when I put the picture up 39 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:26.839 with Jamie holding this, everybody thought it was a pregnancy test. No, 40 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.360 we didn't go to a steakhouse and piss on the pregnancy test and then pull 41 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:34.839 it out of the steakhouse, I mean. And it says in the description 42 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:42.959 of the picture that it's a Cold War KGB spycamera. So what that tells 43 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:47.079 you is that people don't read your descriptions. So if you're putting up pictures 44 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.399 on Instagram and you explain in it in the description, you wasting your time 45 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:59.879 because ain't nobody reading no descriptions. And this is the this is the metal 46 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:03.959 saying that the KGB would use right here, if you see this, to 47 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:07.879 whip people. So when they got in trouble and they got arrested, they 48 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:11.839 take the CIA man bag of whapa, they whip him with this little thing. 49 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:16.199 That's not what this is. This is to measure because older cameras, 50 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:18.680 right, they don't have a focus. So if you're this far away from 51 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:22.040 the if you're doing a document, there's little knobs on this thing that tell 52 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:26.360 you how far to keep the camera away from when you're shooting down to the 53 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:31.240 desk. So interesting with these old school cameras. Here, some nerd got 54 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.039 on Timmy and said, let us do a KGB created camera. I didn't 55 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:41.440 say that, so it was the favorite. It's their favorite camera. Western 56 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:46.200 Intelligence use the mind us, okay, but that doesn't mean it's not the 57 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:48.559 favorite of the KGB. And as you guys know, I'm here as a 58 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:58.200 KGB operative and sorcerer to under Dugan and Vladimir Lenin take down the papacy. 59 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:03.000 So that's what I'm commissioned to do. I get paid in dugan Coin, 60 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:07.399 which is a yet to be revealed crypto. It's gonna go public here in 61 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.039 a little while. We'll have an ico launch of dugan coin and then you 62 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:20.720 guys can just pay me a dugan coin directly to fund the NKVD takeover of 63 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.320 America. See a lot of these, A lot of these track cats think, 64 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:30.200 oh you're KGB, nah Bra KGB went away thirty years ago. But 65 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:35.519 what didn't go away was the NKVD. And I hope the track cats clip 66 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:39.279 that right now because I want to serve my Lord Stalin as best I can. 67 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.720 Okay, where is this crazy woman? Where is this woman? Harpet? 68 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:50.919 This this harpy waking up yelling's harping on her freaking box wine that she's 69 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:56.799 all doped up on. We got moms out here doped up on box one. 70 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:01.440 So she's saying, I'm here. You gotta request us. You know 71 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:05.200 I don't see you in the request to speak. So the way this works, 72 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:07.879 right, So take the Virginia slam out of your mouth, put the 73 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:11.480 box wind down, take a break from the Franzia, and you hit the 74 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:16.080 request to speak button and then I give you the microphone. When you guys 75 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:20.639 get the microphone, you're gonna be muted. That's how the app works. 76 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:24.000 So you gotta u mute yourself. I'm about to have a wacky morning DJ 77 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:30.759 saying that's a monkey or a toilet flush. That means unmute, because nobody 78 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:35.320 ever remembers to unmute. Nobody knows how these spaces work, even though we've 79 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:37.840 been we've been to this for like how many years now, least a few. 80 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:46.440 So what's her name? It's not how patient? What's what's your name? 81 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:56.960 Lisa rannaz In, Lisa, you gotta hit request to speak. I 82 00:10:56.039 --> 00:11:00.200 want to give her first disc because she's so mad. She said, I'm 83 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:03.200 scared of her. She said, you're scared to debate. And I was 84 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:05.200 like, okay, here, you can have the microphone and she said, 85 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:09.759 no, you're scared to debate. My big brother. Lisa requests to speak. 86 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:16.600 I hope she's the one that called your tyrannical riner And you're arrogant as 87 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:20.159 fuck. And by the way, you're awful person. And by the way, 88 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:26.919 you need to repent. You need to repent Holmes barely regardless, you 89 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:33.159 need to barely repent dog. You need to repent. Essay, Lisa, 90 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:41.159 where are you at? You've been harping all morning like a good pagan woman 91 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:48.720 ought to do. Yeah, So militant Thomas is saying that he wants to 92 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:54.840 come in. But yeah, I don't think spaces works for any PC or 93 00:11:54.919 --> 00:12:01.279 laptop as far as I understand, it only works on I'm gonna go to 94 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.720 somebody else. If you don't come on here, Lisa were you? You're 95 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:11.080 not in here. I'm in here. You got that frenzy a cloud in 96 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:18.039 your vision. Baby. Maybe you're a wine aunt. Maybe you're two boomer 97 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:20.320 to aunt. Maybe you're not a wine mom. You're a wine aunt. 98 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:22.600 You don't. You don't how to work this thing. You gotta work it. 99 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:28.159 Put my thing down, flip it, Robert sit, gotta work it. 100 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:33.799 Let me work it. Can The boomer worked a Twitter up up, 101 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:35.600 a Twitter back flip, but the Vier sit, where are you at? 102 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:41.279 You're talking so much shit all day long? By the way, so we 103 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:48.279 had about five or six trads talking smack. I'm not talking about Christian Wagner. 104 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:50.879 He did say he would like to do a debate. Uh. All 105 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:54.440 these other track cats and Roman colics, about four or five of them. 106 00:12:56.200 --> 00:13:01.519 They're mad, they don't want to talk. But guys, if you would 107 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:03.919 hit like and share, we're about to open it up because this woman ain't 108 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:05.480 gonna come I don't guess you just wanted to talk shit all day. But 109 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:15.120 shocker if you guys didn't see it. We did a great interview with Pearl 110 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:24.879 and Tim Gordon and Glenn, so you can go over here and that interview 111 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.919 is linked right here. That was a lot of fun something right there, 112 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:35.440 occult feminism, how feminism infiltrated the churches, And actually that conversation turned out 113 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:39.840 to be We recorded that several days ago and it turned out to be way 114 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:46.960 more relevant to the recent drama on Twitter with Father Barberg and the Antiochian Ecumenists. 115 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:52.759 So go check out that discussion because everything we talked about there applies to 116 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:58.600 the principles that we've laid down with Rachel and other interviews and in my own 117 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:05.240 lectures on how churches get subverted through think tanks. In Geo's Foundation Money University 118 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:09.600 Placement ARCon money, somebody was like, you call him the Greek church nastic 119 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:20.519 because the arcons is a honorary title given to wealthy Greek patrons and prominent individuals. 120 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:24.279 It's not talking about nastic arcons, so it's getting no idea what they're 121 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:30.639 talking about. Okay, So this woman called me a coward all day long 122 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:33.720 and it wouldn't show up. Shocker, a woman is behaving like a woman. 123 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:39.200 By the way, the other Roman Catholic dude that was talking shit all 124 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:50.279 day, he did the classic move of you're all full of shit, your 125 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:52.000 orthodox are full of shit, You're you're full of it, You're full of 126 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:58.759 horsepoop, and then I called him out and then he plays victim. You're 127 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.960 so mean, and look how behave dude? You just called everybody full of 128 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:09.039 shit and you're mad that somebody called you back out. I've never seen you 129 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.960 do a formal debate where you were charitable, total lie. The majority of 130 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:16.639 the debates we do are formal debates that are terrible. These don't count. 131 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:30.360 These are goofy fun day debates. This is entertainment, infotainment. Maybe where 132 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:31.840 are you at? I really want her to come because this was this was 133 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:39.799 gonna be. This was the entertainment right here. We're about to get some 134 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:43.360 wine, wisdom, we'll go. We're going to somebody else to maybe you 135 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:50.519 can figure it out. George of Forrest Cooper. Preference is given to people 136 00:15:50.559 --> 00:16:00.159 who disagree. Got an un mute bra yep? Are you a just hey? 137 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:03.000 What's up? How you doing? Not bad. I think I just 138 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:06.679 found your stuff. So this is all new to me. Okay, are 139 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:11.240 you a disagree or man? It depends on the subject, short answer being 140 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.159 coming from the American side of sort of the reformed movement, that's where I 141 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:19.559 stand, But I don't know if I what my travels can say that it's 142 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.960 the same everywhere I go, even in the United States. What you consider 143 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:30.000 like reformed a Baptist in the Midwest is like Presbyterian in the southeast or Southwest. 144 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:37.159 Okay, so so you're saying Reformed Calvinists closer to yeah, yeah, 145 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:41.519 anyone who anyone who engages in the subject, like we know that there's You've 146 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:45.919 got your five points of Calvinism, and it's like, well, the label 147 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:51.879 only goes so far. So the label of Calvinism because you're a Baptist, 148 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:55.679 you mean, yeah, Like, which which part of it? Because I 149 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:59.240 think it's almost like it's got so many subsects now, but it would be 150 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:04.960 let's talk about just theology. It'd be a preference of sovereignty of God or 151 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:11.400 the free will of man, recognizing the tension of the two. But you 152 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:17.039 said you're coming from a Greek Orthodox position, Well, I'm Orthodox, But 153 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:19.400 I don't attend a Greek church. So there's a lot of Orthodox churches that 154 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.240 are not just Greek, and the majority of Orthodox are not Greek. But 155 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:30.680 yes, I'm I attend a Russian Orthodox Church Russian doctor, So I mean 156 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:34.000 they're They're definitely not common in the areas that I've lived. Where is the 157 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:40.720 point of a difference between an American version of a Russian Orthodox Church as opposed 158 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:47.039 to other options, Well, I mean, differences are typically gonna be like 159 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:53.079 linguistic or kind of local traditions in terms of culture. Theologically speaking, sometimes 160 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:57.799 there's a difference of emphasis, but we all possessed the same Niceno constant to 161 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:03.880 Politan creed, and we all belay the same eight slash nine ecumenical councils. 162 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:11.400 So if you're saying differences between Orthodox Churches, the differences usually relate to if 163 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:14.559 there's ever a schism or something like that. Most of the time it's something 164 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:21.480 jurisdictional. Sometimes it's theological. But I mean the canonical Orthodox Church is all 165 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:26.680 of the professing Orthodox churches that are in communion and follow the same canon law 166 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:33.000 and the same patriarchal structure. So that's the Orthodox Church. That I'm talking 167 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:37.519 about Russian just happens to be a jurisdiction within that. But in terms of 168 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.160 what you're talking about, Um, I mean, I'm curious if you want 169 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:45.240 to get into the specifics of disagreements, like because I at a time where 170 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.480 I was a Calvinist Baptist or Reformed Baptist, I guess you could say, 171 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:55.240 and I went to Reformed Baptist church or maybe maybe a year and that's when 172 00:18:55.279 --> 00:19:03.839 I moved into Covenant theology and Presbyterianism back in about two thousand, about ninety 173 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.559 nine. So I was already a Calvinist by two thousand, ninety eight ninety 174 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:11.640 nine is when I was getting into James White and reading a lot of Reform 175 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:17.680 Baptist stuff and Reformed Baptist Confession and Spurgeon and all those guys. Um So, 176 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.440 have you ever looked into the history of the formation of the Biblical Canon? 177 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:29.599 Yeah? My degrees are in theology and philosophy. Okay, excellent, 178 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:33.200 Well you sound like the perfect dude to talk to. I enjoy it. 179 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.240 Yeah. So, um so, why should we accept the Protestant canon of 180 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.119 scripture? Why should we accept the Protestant Canada Scripture? Yeah? Not the 181 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:51.200 Orthodox canon. Where's the difference between the two? Well, I mean the 182 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:56.440 Protestant Church typically follows the masoretic text, so there's some differences in that minutia. 183 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.880 But we also have the Dutero canonical text. Okay, so is there 184 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.559 it would it be worth saying that there is the poor canon and then there's 185 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:11.279 the additional canon, Like the difference between what how does that have any play 186 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:17.519 on something like soliscritura or authority of the gospels, Like do you see the 187 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.039 addition of the what you consider the additional I would consider the additional ones, 188 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:29.960 the additional canon, to be just as authoritative as the Protestant canon. Is 189 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.720 that the argument? Well, I would say, if you look at the 190 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:37.880 Patristic tradition, they do try to prove doctrines from citing the dut canonical text 191 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:41.799 all the time, So I would say they're useful for doctrine as well. 192 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:47.279 But in the Orthodox view, they don't have the same emphasis and premisey that 193 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:49.559 the Gospels do. So in the Orthodox Church, for example, in the 194 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:55.480 liturgy itself, there's a priminence, a pre eminence that's given to the Gospels, 195 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:59.880 even over Paul's epistles. But we don't have a false dialectic to say 196 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.839 that, oh, because there's a premacy given to the Gospels, that therefore 197 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:08.079 means that Paul's epistles are fallacious or erroneous or something like that. Even Paul, 198 00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:11.279 within his letters says that this I say of my own opinion and not 199 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:15.440 of the Holy Spirit. So even at times in Paul's opinion, he says 200 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.400 that not every jot and tittle is of the same level of importance. And 201 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:22.839 so I don't have a problem saying that the duter canonical texts are less important 202 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:26.559 than something like the Gospels. But that doesn't mean that they're not going to 203 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:30.400 be useful, for example, in proving doctrines like praying for the dead. 204 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:37.359 So that's one issue of the duer cannon itself. But the other issue is 205 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:41.400 what is the epistemic principle that you have to know which is the right list 206 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.960 of books? And how do you have that without the historic church that chose 207 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:57.839 that. Okay, so I'm just putting this all together. It's been a 208 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:04.079 while since we've had a conversation on this layer, so I'm enjoying it right. 209 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:06.920 Well, I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but you 210 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.200 said your philosophy. You said your philosophy, student philosophy major, guys, 211 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:15.880 So what's the epistemic principle by which Protestants determine the true canon of Scripture without 212 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:25.400 reference to the historical church? Would reference to the historical church be considered a 213 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:30.400 negative or a positive? Well, I would say for you, it's probably 214 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:33.599 going to be a negative because the people that put the canon of Scripture together 215 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:41.880 don't believe anything of what you believe. It might be a little bit broad. 216 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.519 That would have to be a little bit broad because saying that we don't 217 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.720 believe in any of the same things, you don't have to be more specific 218 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:49.799 on that po Well, let's say, let's say the Classical Reformation teaching, 219 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:55.720 for example, that people that deny grace alone, faith alone, solo scripture, 220 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:02.200 you know, solo feed a those people do not teach the Gospel. 221 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:04.599 So that would mean that all the people that put the Candida scriptsure together did 222 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:10.559 not teach the Gospel. What did they teach them? I mean, I 223 00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:12.680 don't I don't see the difference. Because they teach, they teach the or 224 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:21.440 they teach they teach Eastern Orthodox theology. I mean, you know, we 225 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:23.559 can go read these people, right, yeah, yeah, not very fair. 226 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.279 I just don't know if I agree with your premise, because the well, 227 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.079 the premise was a question. How could you disagree with the premise. 228 00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:37.160 It was a question or the premise that you don't believe what they believe. 229 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:45.000 Which premise. So if the early if the early Church fathers and the people 230 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:51.599 who wrote, or even even the what we consider just even the Reformed New 231 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:56.559 Testament or the Protestant New Testament wrote what they wrote all took place before you 232 00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:02.039 had Catholic, Orthodox, Reformed and so and so forth. So well, 233 00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:06.640 hold on. So the recording of the texts is not the same thing as 234 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:10.799 you knowing which which books go into the Bible. That's two different things. 235 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.799 So I would agree with you. I would agree with you that the apostles 236 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:21.880 were inspired to write down the autographa right, But that's a different that's a 237 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.680 different issue. That's a different issue from you knowing what the specific Apostolic authored 238 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:30.279 texts were because you don't have a time machine to do that. You have 239 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:33.759 to trust in the testimony of the bishops that handed those texts down for many 240 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:38.240 centuries, and that produced the Canada Scripture. In about the seventh century thing, 241 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.799 How is it any different than an orthopox position because we both received the 242 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:51.039 same texts. Well, we receive it from a historic church. That's my 243 00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:56.359 point is that you can't divorce the Canada Scripture from a historic body that preserved 244 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:00.319 it and made the normative decision as to what books go into that book. 245 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:08.079 Yes, I agreed. You cannot divorce the people that we have now from 246 00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:12.240 people carrying it on through time. Right, So what do you think the 247 00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:18.640 people who preserved and transmitted that text in the second, third, fourth, 248 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:30.559 fift six, seventh centuries believed? Give me and give me give me a 249 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:34.720 touch point where I can start on, like about what salvation about? Was 250 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:37.079 alre we talking about? Like the lamps? Are we talking about? Did 251 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:45.839 they believe in apostolic succession? Oh? Have you have you read, for 252 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:52.119 example, the Cannons of Nicia, not for a long, long, long 253 00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:55.200 time, but the only elements of it. So that's a good point. 254 00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:00.400 But you did read the Cannons of Nicia only sections? Okay, what do 255 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.640 you think we're in the Cannons of Nicia? Wouldn't be able to tell you 256 00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:08.319 anymore. This is a problem. Well, I'm not talking about the Creed 257 00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:14.079 of Nicia. I'm talking about the cannons. That's different. Are we still 258 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:18.480 talking about like um, because then they seeing creed how to deal with the 259 00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.440 divinity and identity of price. Well, that's part of what the Creed dealt 260 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.279 with, but then it also had to deal with heresy and some of the 261 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:30.160 other issues that they're dealing. Yeah, and the cannons, which I have 262 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:34.799 up on the screen, deal with the sacrifice of the Eucharist, They deal 263 00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:41.000 with the apostolic succession, they deal with the episcopate, they deal with baptismal 264 00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:48.359 regeneration, they deal with the hierarchical clergy, they deal with excommunication, they 265 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.480 deal with viaticum, or giving the Eucharist to those who are on their deathbed. 266 00:26:53.400 --> 00:27:00.559 I mean, none of this is reformed Baptists, because we wouldn't be 267 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:03.839 able to make the argument as reformed Baptists because what you call reform Baptist didn't 268 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:08.039 come around for so the church what was in a blackout? I thought matt 269 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:12.160 Jesus said Matthew sixteen, that the gates of Hadeus would not prevail against the 270 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:17.759 church. Where was the church in these centuries? Who's still with the people? 271 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:25.720 What people these people are orthodox. Is calling them orthodox and contemporary language 272 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:29.680 a little disingenuous? Uh? No, if I'm literally showing you all of 273 00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:33.200 the things that they believe that we believe. Let me read you Kennon eighteen 274 00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:36.960 of Nicia. It has come to the knowledge of this Great Synod that in 275 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.319 some districts and cities deacons administer the Eucharist to the presbyters, whereas no canon 276 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:45.240 or custom permits this. They should not give the Body of Christ to them 277 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:48.480 that do offer. Also, it has been made though, that certain deacons 278 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.680 touch the Eucharist before the bishop touches them. Does that sound like a reform 279 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:57.759 Baptist church to you? No, not at all, because it has to 280 00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:02.160 do it has more to do tradition and ritual than it does to do with 281 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:08.000 theology and belief. So tradition and ritual and not the algia belief. You 282 00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:12.279 don't think that liturgy is part of the Algian belief? It is. I 283 00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:15.839 think that I think we're still dealing with the practices of man versus what is 284 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:21.279 true? Interesting, So, where does the church get its worship service in 285 00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:30.200 the first and second century? Since you want to talk about ritual, it's 286 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:33.720 worship service. Yeah, I mean, you're saying that rituals don't matter. 287 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:40.359 So wouldn't God have told us a proper way to worship? Don't don't Oh, 288 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.319 sorry on that one. Don't say that I don't think ritual is important. 289 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:45.640 I'm saying that rituals, well, you're saying these are bad rituals. 290 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:49.799 And I'm saying that where does the church in the first and second century derive 291 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.519 its pattern of worship from? What's the proper way to do a church service? 292 00:28:53.599 --> 00:29:00.880 And how do we know that? Does the New Testament have a service? 293 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:07.559 No? Oh, but the Apostles established worship. So is it Have 294 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.640 you considered that maybe the worship services themselves or something that are not in the 295 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:18.759 scriptures that are apostolically established, it would still be if they're apostolically established, 296 00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:25.279 they're still partially established by the dictates of Man. You think that the Apostles 297 00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:30.279 didn't teach authoritatively only what they wrote, because Paul says, all the things 298 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:34.559 that I taught in Ephesus for three years to Timothy, you pass those things 299 00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:40.079 on. So you just told me, no, you only passed on they 300 00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:48.119 only they were only authoritative in the written To this day, we can I 301 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.160 think that you're talking about authoritative written I'm thinking, well, you're just begging 302 00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.319 the question, because I'm telling you that the Apostles established liturgies, and so 303 00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:59.200 we worship the same way that they laid down that worship. You know, 304 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:03.039 we can go read how in the first and second centuries the bishops of that 305 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:07.359 time wrote about the worship of the church. Right, you're an as ignatious 306 00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:14.920 cyprian, okay, And they describe the same type of worship that we do 307 00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:21.160 in the Orthodox Church, the real presence of Christ and the euchris and so 308 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:25.240 in that argument, and so in that argument, you're saying that the Orthodox 309 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:30.359 Church is the only church that follows that authoritative doctrine. Absolutely. Ah, 310 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:34.880 So that's what and what does what does that have in relation to salvific principles 311 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:38.400 or salvation? Well, the Orthodox Church is the one true church, and 312 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:44.240 your church is, as you just admitted, a recent invention, well more 313 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:47.759 recent if you're going to call it an invention. Maybe that's a stretch, 314 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:48.960 but I can understand it. Well, now, wait a minute, do 315 00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:56.279 you have continuity with the church that I'm talking about? Yes, yes we 316 00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:02.359 do. No, you don't what Orthodox bishops ordained any reform Baptist elder. 317 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:10.599 That wouldn't make that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same thing. So well, 318 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:14.839 do you began this just but you began you began this discussion by talking about 319 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.920 how many different divisions and splits there were in the world of reform Baptist and 320 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.839 Calvinists. Yes, but that argument can be applied to all of Christianity. 321 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:27.759 No, it can't. That's my point because Jesus said that the body of 322 00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:33.319 Christ would be like his body, indivisible. There's one Lord, one faith. 323 00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:36.599 When Baptism as the nice increase says one Holy Catholic, Abistolic Church, 324 00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:42.559 one Catholic. Yeah, okay, so your argument, So the argument that 325 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:47.200 you're making is that there is only one true church and that is the that's 326 00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:51.799 part of the argument I'm making. Yeah, how many bodies did Jesus have 327 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.599 as a physical body, the one right and the Church is the extension of 328 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:01.319 that incarnation of his physical body. Yes, so there can't be two, 329 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:07.480 three fifty thousand churches. Do you believe in the noetic effects of sin? 330 00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:12.240 I believe there are no edic effects of sin, but I don't believe what 331 00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:15.400 you think about the noetic affects of sin, because in your view, even 332 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:19.000 after regeneration, the noetic effects of sin are still in effect, and so 333 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.359 it should be precluding you from making any normative dogmatic statements. That's why the 334 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:28.599 Reformed confessions all say that nobody can bind another person to their interpretation right, 335 00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:38.720 freedom of worship, freedom of conscience. So then are you are we talking 336 00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:43.599 just about a difference in esthetic because you have no I mean, I literally 337 00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.880 write I'm not being rude too, I'm just literally just said that heterodoxy versus 338 00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:52.160 orthodoxy inside the church outside the church. So no, it's not a matter 339 00:32:52.200 --> 00:33:00.279 of aesthetics. Okay, So then is it beyond reproach to say that the 340 00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:05.599 Orthodox Church views only people within are your position within the Orthodox Church only sees 341 00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:08.559 people within you or within the Orthodox Church to be Christians at all, and 342 00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:13.799 everyone else is on some form of heresy? Correct? Where's the line between 343 00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:20.279 correct? Where's the line between Christianity and heresy? The Orthodox Church? Well, 344 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:28.039 so it's membership to a human body. Jesus's Church is a panthropic institution, 345 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.279 is not a human institution. And that's precisely what your heresy is. 346 00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:34.759 In the New Testament, Paul in many places says that the Church is the 347 00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:37.640 body of Christ, and you're saying it's a human institution. So you right 348 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:43.319 there just kind of gave the game away. That's a good call for the 349 00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:45.440 second here, that's a good call. The point. The problem though, 350 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.480 is that I don't know where you draw the line of who is inside and 351 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:52.680 who is outside the church. Well, I mean, again, there's either 352 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:57.079 you're either Orthodox or you're not. So are you in community with the Orthodox 353 00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:00.599 Church or are you in communion with a recently invented group. What does it 354 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:07.440 take to be considered truly Orthodox? Well, I mean it's not just being 355 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:10.880 a member obviously, you also have to live it and believe it and you 356 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:15.000 know, participate in the sacramental life of the Church. So I'm not saying 357 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:17.519 you can just notionally think it, Oh I think that I'm Orthodox. No, 358 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.400 it's actually like joining the visible group known as the Orthodox Church. This 359 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:27.920 is at which Orthodox Church is the right one, the one I just explained 360 00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:31.119 to the public, canonical Orthodox Church that exists throughout the entire world. It's 361 00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:38.679 the second largest Christian communion, so called Christian communion in the world. And 362 00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:45.159 how many versions are how many different Orthodox churches make that same claim. It's 363 00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:52.400 because you don't understand this fundamental misunderstanding of what Orthodox theology and ecclesiology is. 364 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:58.159 Different jurisdictions doesn't mean different churches. Man, you understand that the guy that 365 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:02.400 Paul was talking to in ephesis, Timothy, that there's still an Orthodox Church 366 00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:10.199 in ephesis today that descends, that descends from Timothy and Orthodox Church from father 367 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:15.800 to father to father to the father. That's apostolic succession. Correct, that's 368 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:21.320 Timothy's the Paul's letters to Timothy. I laid hands on you, Timothy, 369 00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:24.559 you lay hands on men after you because the giving of the Holy Spirit is 370 00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:30.000 transferred. And he says, don't lay hands on men lightheartedly. Make sure 371 00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:34.119 that they're good men who can pass on the entire deposit that I committed to 372 00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:37.960 you, which, as he says in acts, was three years day and 373 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:43.159 night teaching, not just written because he didn't. As far as we know, 374 00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:45.360 there's only two written letters to Timothy. And yet he tells Timothy to 375 00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:52.599 pass on the entire deposit of what he taught for three years straight. So 376 00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:58.880 the I think where the issue is going on here, I think where I'm 377 00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:00.360 gonna I draw the line on this one is said, I don't know if 378 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.679 I would want to place I don't think. I don't think you can place 379 00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:08.880 salvation within man's institutions, even though where you keep calling it a man man's 380 00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:15.079 institution. I'm telling you that Jesus said in John that the Holy Spirit would 381 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:17.199 be given to the church. I mean, don't you think Pentecost was significant 382 00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:22.039 that he says the comforter will lead you and guide you into all truth. 383 00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.440 And you're telling me that at some point apparently the Holy Spirit left the visible 384 00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:31.360 historical church and then it had to be restored by whatever sectarian person you follow. 385 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:36.440 Jesus said that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church. 386 00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:39.199 The Church is the kingdom. It's a visible society set up by the Apostles 387 00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:45.199 in history. And so what you want is a church or a group divorced 388 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:49.599 from that historical institution. It is not a man's institution. It's a divine 389 00:36:49.639 --> 00:36:52.239 institution. That's the point. Well, saying that I wanted might be a 390 00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:57.119 little disingenuous. Let's start there, because well, I'm saying, but if 391 00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:00.559 you, if you when I say you want it, I'm coming into understanding 392 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:05.159 more and more about the Orthodox. Okay, fair enough, but it hasn't 393 00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:07.840 been well, what I meant by you want it. What I meant by 394 00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:13.400 you want is not to impugne bad motives, but to say that your defense 395 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:15.880 of the reform baptistposition would mean. That's what I meant by you want. 396 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:19.880 You want, you want to defend the reform baptistposition, and that's what I 397 00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:23.760 meant. Okay, So then it is calling it reform Baptist. It'sself caught 398 00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:30.239 causing it to become heretical. It's the lack of connection and communion with the 399 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:36.599 Church in history and the heterodox beliefs that make it not a true church. 400 00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:39.599 Not the name itself. Yeah, we could go with a heterodox beliefs for 401 00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:46.480 sure. The connection to people, um, the connection. Yeah, But 402 00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:51.000 you just keep you just keep reading, lying, you just keep you just 403 00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:54.559 keep assuming that there is no Apostoli succession. And I've given you two points 404 00:37:54.599 --> 00:38:00.119 already that the Bible itself was put together by these people, and that's my 405 00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:01.920 Paul says to Timothy that the Church is the pillar and ground of truth. 406 00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:05.400 He doesn't say that the written text of the pillar and ground of truth. 407 00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:08.840 And he tells Timothy to pass on this inheritance, this deposit by the laying 408 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:15.000 on of hands. That's a historical Continuitian succession. You remember the Old Testament, 409 00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:20.599 there's a laying on of hands and the giving of the Holy Spirit Moses, 410 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:25.679 Joshua, there is Yep, there's the Father. Yep. I'm familiar. 411 00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:30.599 Okay. So the apostles are modeling that same structure for the spiritual Israel 412 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:35.880 and laying on hands, not on the basis of biological descent, but to 413 00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:42.400 induct men into the Melkizedekian priesthood, because Jesus's priesthood is a continuing press beter 414 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:51.880 it, which is the Melkizedekian one Allah Hebrews seven. So then so then 415 00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:53.840 what is left for those people who exist in the world. I mean, 416 00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:57.280 I know, I know half the answer to this one. But what is 417 00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:00.039 it left for those people who exist in the world who have not had connection 418 00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:07.239 to or communication with an Orthodox church or there They're understand they're the Orthodox churches 419 00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:15.559 are for people who claim to be Orthodox are even stretching between Hey, by 420 00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:19.039 the way, um, I don't mean I don't I think the point that 421 00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:23.119 the problem is the world is big. How do we deal with that because 422 00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:30.079 I think there's a solution to be had here. Hold on, you have 423 00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:35.920 to request to speak, So I'm not woman says I'm muting her. You 424 00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:39.440 have to request to speak. I'm not muting you. And also, by 425 00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:43.320 the way people are saying in the chat for Christian Wagner, if you want 426 00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:45.880 to come on, they're saying that it does now work on PC. So, 427 00:39:46.559 --> 00:40:00.719 um, spaces didn't used to work on the computer. Yeah, that's 428 00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:09.639 what people are saying. But yeah, so I mean the question of what 429 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:14.719 happens to people who don't know about Christ, we lately we leave that to 430 00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:19.239 God. That's not we don't know that, so you know God's going to 431 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:21.280 deal with them and the way that God deals with them. But there is 432 00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:23.880 the doction of recapitulation, which means that all men do, by the virtue 433 00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:29.639 of the universal nature that Christ assumed, have a connection to Christ. But 434 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:34.480 um, we're not told about their ultimate destiny. But we know that it's 435 00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:37.960 our it's our duty to tell people to repent and come to the church. 436 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:43.199 You can't you can't divorce. You can't divorce christology from ecclesiology. As my 437 00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:45.960 point, that's why the church can't be a purely human institution. Oh no, 438 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:51.480 I agree there, it can't be a purely human institution. The different 439 00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:54.360 than the argument being how much of the Orthodox Church is human and how much 440 00:40:54.360 --> 00:41:00.639 of it is of God. But it's a good argument. I do appreciate 441 00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:06.599 it, to be clear. When I were, my experiences within theology are 442 00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:13.199 much more focused on Orthodoxy as opposed to like bloodlines or patriarchal follows. But 443 00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:15.559 then you're also looking at like, I'm sure you're you know, you knew 444 00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:20.320 exactly what I'm talking about because you came from some of the more reformed very 445 00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:23.159 and you went into an Orthodox I think I would like to hear how that 446 00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:28.599 happened and why you chose it. Well, I mean, I've got I've 447 00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:30.880 got videos on I've got videos on that, so you could go, um, 448 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:34.199 you know, watch those longer videos where I kind of break that down. 449 00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.920 So I won't, I won't restate that whole story, but uh, 450 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:39.280 you know, I had I had a long time where I spent in both 451 00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:45.000 Calvinism and the Roman Calic Church. And so, to make a long story 452 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:47.719 short, the Church Fathers, the formation of the Cannon, reading all the 453 00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:54.440 Eastern Church fathers and seeing which lined up with scripture ultimately was the kind of 454 00:41:54.480 --> 00:42:00.800 final decider for me on that topic. So then yeah, no, that 455 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:05.960 that makes sense. It's it's a it's a useful thing to discuss, especially 456 00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:13.119 as far as um as we as Christians grow out of that fourth grade version 457 00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:15.960 of faith into something a little bit more solid, meaningful. We have to 458 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:22.440 look at history as a whole. Uh well, yeah, let's we're gonna 459 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.320 give somebody else not going to be rude to you or anything, not being 460 00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:29.360 mean, but appreciate. Yeah. I really enjoyed this one. So yeah, 461 00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:31.880 well hop back on. You're welcome to chat any time or bring any 462 00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:37.440 other issues or questions. Now, this woman says, This woman says, 463 00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:42.440 I have a requested to speak and you have me muted. No you haven't. 464 00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:51.360 Everybody can see how many people are requesting to speak. Okay, is 465 00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.079 the wine mom on the list, Lisa. No, she's not, so 466 00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:59.000 she has not requested to speak. She's saying, oh, you're not gonna 467 00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:01.079 let me speak. You didn't request to speak. I've asked you ten times 468 00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:06.559 to request to speak, so you're not there. She's like, look, 469 00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:10.639 I request, I request to speak. I request, No you didn't. 470 00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:15.440 There's the list of people requesting to speak. I really would like you to 471 00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:22.719 come on. I mean, you made such a fracus today and you're obviously 472 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:24.360 not on the list to request you not Maybe you just don't know have worke 473 00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:28.280 this? You just hit requests to speak And by the way, Wagner, 474 00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.280 you can come on too. So again today we're giving preference to people who 475 00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:46.440 disagree. Constantine just hit a mute, I think can you hear me? 476 00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:51.280 Jane? Yes, sir, how are you? How are you? Uh? 477 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:57.960 I'm I can't hear you? Speak up, be quick about it, 478 00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:04.119 because I wish you're the YouTube channels sometimes when I get the chance. Okay, 479 00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:07.519 I've always wanted to ask you this question, which is what is the 480 00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:15.800 actual difference between Oriental Orthodox Church and the Eastern orthodoxters. I mean, I've 481 00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:19.719 tried to research about it, but I clearly cannot understand what the actual, 482 00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:24.000 you know, problem is between the two churches because I'm an Oriental Orthodox Church 483 00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:30.280 followers. So so again I would say, go go watch the videos that 484 00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:32.639 David and I've done. We've probably done five different streams on that. So 485 00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:37.519 David Rhan is really good on this topic. That's his specialty. So if 486 00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:39.719 you want to get into nitty griddy, I would say, go watch all 487 00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:45.159 the videos that David and I have done together. But really it's just a 488 00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:53.159 matter of the place of Chalcidon, whether or not we are wedded to the 489 00:44:53.320 --> 00:45:01.039 terminology of the younger cyrilophusis whether or not these the Fifth Council was good enough 490 00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:07.159 to reconcile the two positions, and then the place of certain people that your 491 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:10.840 church considers saints, like Severus, which we would not consider a saint. 492 00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:14.840 So those are the main issues of departure. But I would recommend to go 493 00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:20.039 watch the videos that we did with me and David talking, so let's see 494 00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:22.960 here. Thank you for that though. So this woman is still not here. 495 00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:31.880 She's made such a huge fuss all day and tell you then what request 496 00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:37.519 to speak? She literally is so she just she can't even figure out the 497 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:45.239 buttons, dude, She's like, tell me what to do request to speak? 498 00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:51.000 It even works on PC now, So people don't have the PC. 499 00:45:51.159 --> 00:45:59.119 Excuse, well, I'm not I don't have my phone. Okay, so 500 00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:09.199 I think we have another disagree or man, Nick, what's up? You 501 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:20.000 got it? Arm you bro? Hello? Hello? Is this our libertarian 502 00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:25.360 buddy that we had an argument with before, Yeah, I would just like 503 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:30.039 to say, I would like to make the argument that the Orthodox Church sucks 504 00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:34.840 and rosy Crusianism rosary Cruisianism, the rosy Cross is where it's at, and 505 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:39.639 the they Orthodox got it wrong in their lame and in a monarchic theocracy, 506 00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:44.079 I would create a new title of king Pope, and I would declare that 507 00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:47.360 all Orthodox Christians or heretics and I would have them burned at the stake. 508 00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:52.440 And then I would create devices like a spiked coffin and enclose most of the 509 00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:55.440 Orthodox Christians and Baptists in them. And this would be part of the new 510 00:46:55.519 --> 00:47:00.760 forms of a program. But first, that's really funny. Angles are forgiving 511 00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:06.039 and I have declared it. So I will first let the Orthodox Christians repent 512 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:09.199 before do you have an argument? Are you just you just? Are you 513 00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:14.239 just trolling all? And then I'll start the Order of the Cruciform Sword. 514 00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:19.400 I like that because that we're getting into. We're getting into all right, 515 00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:23.360 I'm gonna boot your will be the only way. Why would you like, 516 00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:28.079 yeah, why would you even want to interact with me? Being this this 517 00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:30.199 ridiculous. I do like the idea of the order of the cruciform sword though, 518 00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:34.960 because that's from Indiana Jones, right, yeah, and actually that's Rotio 519 00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:38.719 Crucianism and and actually I was just joking and Rosy Crustianism, I think is 520 00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:44.719 what the cross of the rosa bar, the cruciform sword it actually is. 521 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:50.760 You say it was as well. I mean they're they're wearing Muslim hats, 522 00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:54.519 they're wearing fezzis, so yeah, but it's more like Rosa Crucianism because of 523 00:47:54.599 --> 00:48:00.119 the cruciform the rosy cross. Well, but I mean, okay, I 524 00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:02.400 mean that could be, but I mean Sufi's you know, they will they're 525 00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:07.119 kind of uh synchrotus, so they'll try to have you know, secret meanings 526 00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:10.440 for all these things too. So I don't know what spillwork Hadden is mine. 527 00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:15.079 So whatever. Also in the New Indiana Jones there's a crescent that if 528 00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:22.400 you noticed in when the um there's that artifact it's like a it's like a 529 00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:29.719 dial that they go in the tomb that's like a crescent and that and that 530 00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:35.480 that's kind of like part of like this uh Satan worship cult thing that's going 531 00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:39.239 on where you have the crescent, the black sun crescent thing it's a it's 532 00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:45.599 in, it's in Egyptian um methology to the Crescent, whatever the hell that 533 00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:50.679 is supposed to. Did you have a presentation, an argument, or a 534 00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:55.880 critique you'd like to make. Yeah, I just I just think religious fanatics 535 00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:04.280 that think everybody's a heretic is not politically viable for a humanist from a humanist 536 00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:08.960 perspective, why should we Why should we believe the humanist perspective? Well, 537 00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:15.360 a humanist perspective is basically that, Um, No, I didn't ask for 538 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:19.039 our definition. It's not didn't I didn't ask for a definition. I said, 539 00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:22.199 why should we believe it? It's not compassionate towards humanity, it's not 540 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:29.079 good for humanity. Okay, so we should be compassionate. Why on your 541 00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:31.000 on your system, just give me the reasons why that's what we should do. 542 00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:36.559 Maybe it's true. I don't know to tell me why. Because the 543 00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:42.880 religious doctrines all over the world, and eventually theocricies go against Why should I 544 00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:46.039 accept the religious doctrines of the world that teach tolerance and not the ones that 545 00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:52.519 teach jihad and death? Well, why should you accept your own religious So 546 00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:57.440 that's a that's a two. That's a two quote quay. So what's the 547 00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:00.440 argument from your position as to why I'm supposed to accept what you're saying? 548 00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:06.599 Argument is, do you remember the last time you called in? It was 549 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:12.119 the exact same conversation, and you haven't made any progress since then? Do 550 00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:14.360 you not understand the question I'm asking. I'm not being mean to you, 551 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:21.000 it's honest question. I make the argument that theocracy eventually goes its own theism, 552 00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:23.039 it goes against its own religion. That's not telling me why I need 553 00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:29.119 people. That's not telling me why I should choose your perennialist tolerance religion, 554 00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:36.079 because it's do you know what? Let me ask you this, Do you 555 00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:39.320 know what a two quo quay fallacy is? Perspective? I want to know 556 00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:43.920 why the humanist perspective is true? Maybe it is, that's what I asked 557 00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:47.960 you last time. You've gotten even worse than the last time. It is 558 00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:54.519 true because less people die and dying is bad. What's the basis for this? 559 00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:59.679 Do you know what a two quot quay fallacy is? Okay? Well, 560 00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:02.679 yeah, if it's funny. If it's funny, yeah, I mean, 561 00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:07.599 if it's funny, then we can just move on. So, uh 562 00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:12.159 whine, Mom, where you at? I thought you were coming? Request 563 00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:15.960 to speak? She says, Look, this is the woman calling me an 564 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:22.159 idiot and a coward all day. Here's the exchange. Request to speak, 565 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:34.239 Hit the button. What point you have to join the chat? Goofus like 566 00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:38.920 Boomer needs it spelled out right, like literally, step by step join that 567 00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:55.159 request to speak. Put down the box. Wine. Let's see if she 568 00:51:55.239 --> 00:52:04.199 can figure it out. So we're giving preference to people that disagree. I 569 00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:07.280 know a lot of you guys always want to come in, call in and 570 00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:10.480 ask theological Q and a. UM. I'm not mad or anything, but 571 00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:15.719 yeah, let's have people that disagree with the takes that I have, people 572 00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:19.199 that haven't called in. Bruce, Bruce Wayan, what's up, Bruce Wayan, 573 00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:36.880 Bro, I'm you dog? Hello? Yes? How you doing good? 574 00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:43.199 What are you chewing? A smacking? Yes? So I wanted to 575 00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:47.320 ask you, how do the Orthodox have assurance about salvation? Well, we 576 00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:52.840 can have assurance that we are experiencing the grace of God, but salvation is 577 00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:55.760 not just a past event. It's a past event and an ongoing event and 578 00:52:55.920 --> 00:53:00.239 a future event at the in the escotoon. Okay, So there's no, 579 00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:06.880 there's no there's no assurance that you will persevere until the escaton unless you in 580 00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:12.519 fact do persevere. Okay, and um an orthodoxy, the sacraments are necessary 581 00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:17.320 for salvation correct. Normatively yes, if a child dies, if a child 582 00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:22.360 like the Innocence you know that are murdered by Herod, if a child dies 583 00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:24.920 in some cases like that, the martyrs, bautism, desire and all that. 584 00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:30.199 But normatively, yes, the sacraments are absolutely necessary. Yeah. Sure. 585 00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:32.599 Um, let's say, for example, you have to understand why the 586 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:37.639 eu Christ might be necessary, why confession and why baptism is like a necessary 587 00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:46.280 under normative curs circumstances. But welcome marriage and the other sacraments because it's a 588 00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:52.519 sacramental lifestyle that we live based on the estate that we enter into. Not 589 00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:58.800 everybody enters into the marital state. So it's not like you've got to stack 590 00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:00.920 up all the hit points and lock all the achievements by getting all of the 591 00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:07.440 sacraments. So it's not a role playing game. It's just living out and 592 00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:12.960 participating in the sacraments that are appropriate to your station in life. Got it. 593 00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:17.920 And Jesus the Son is he's a god he's God in an orthodoxy, 594 00:54:19.480 --> 00:54:22.039 he's like a God being. But when he becomes a human, isn't he 595 00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:24.719 sort of two beings at the same time? When he takes on let's say, 596 00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:29.480 you know, human nature, doesn't he like isn't he like God? 597 00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:32.360 No, he's a single but he's a single being with two natures. So 598 00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:36.320 this, for us is the teaching of the hypostatic union. It means that 599 00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:39.920 the two unions were united in the divine person of the logos that assumed the 600 00:54:40.039 --> 00:54:47.440 human nature. So we when the Church rejected Nestorianism after Saint Cyril and Ephesus 601 00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:51.880 and the disputes there, that was a rejection of the notion of any dual 602 00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:55.360 subject in Christ. Christ is a single subject, a single divine subject, 603 00:54:57.039 --> 00:55:00.719 and the natures are dual. So how can the natures, let's say, 604 00:55:01.039 --> 00:55:05.119 unite? How? I mean, how is that possible? And what is 605 00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:09.440 the how is it? Because it's a divine person with a divine nature coming 606 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:14.280 into time and space and taking on a human nature. How is it possible? 607 00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:17.079 God? What is impossible for God? As both the Old Testament and 608 00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:22.199 the New Testaments say, oh so, just a question about like, you 609 00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:24.800 know, what is the philosophical necessity of let's say, God being tryun rather 610 00:55:24.920 --> 00:55:32.119 than a Unitarian. I think there's a good argument to be made for why 611 00:55:34.039 --> 00:55:42.000 unitarian and diatic positions are metaphysically destructive, theologically destructive, and impossible. So 612 00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:45.800 I think there is an argument to be made for that, and it gets 613 00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:50.960 into stuff like the arguments against modal collapse, the arguments against absolutely vine simplicity, 614 00:55:51.519 --> 00:55:57.039 the idea that there's an exchange of attributes between the persons and love and 615 00:55:57.320 --> 00:56:00.440 energies, et cetera that occur between the fathers and the Holy Spirit that don't 616 00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:04.599 require a created order. And if you look at somebody like Originism or like 617 00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:09.920 origin Originism is a great example because Origin thought that for God to be eternal 618 00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:15.559 and to be Father and to be Lord and to be creator required that he'd 619 00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:19.760 be eternally God, Lord and Creator. So that means that he had to 620 00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:23.199 have a creation that he was lorded over, and so you get this neo 621 00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:30.079 platonic and sort of you know, heterodox idea and Origin as an example, 622 00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:32.920 you could look at Aristotle as well. If you look at Arisol's philosophy, 623 00:56:32.960 --> 00:56:38.039 he has a diad because he defines God as an eternal actualizer. And if 624 00:56:38.079 --> 00:56:42.360 God's an eternal actualizer, then there must be something other than him that he 625 00:56:42.440 --> 00:56:45.800 actualized. And so that would mean that an eternal actualizer is eternally moving or 626 00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:51.639 causing or actualizing a prima materia another world or whatever which is not Him. 627 00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:53.920 So that would be, as Basil says, next, Samaran a diad because 628 00:56:53.920 --> 00:56:58.480 you've given an eternal attribute to the created order. So now you have it. 629 00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:02.559 Now you have a dual principle God. So unitarianism and diadism I would 630 00:57:02.599 --> 00:57:07.599 say, cancel one another out and are impossible. All right, God, 631 00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:12.960 She's just another question about salvation. So you know in Romans eight, you 632 00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:17.679 know, Paul says for those he predes also called he also justified, and 633 00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:22.440 then he also glorified. Doesn't that just mean that, you like, once 634 00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:24.719 you're justified, you can't you're going to be glorified and you can't lose your 635 00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:32.119 salvation. Uh No, because there's also many passages that talk about the possibility 636 00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:37.079 of tasting the heavenly gift, being cleansed in the labor regeneration and falling away 637 00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:40.159 all lot of Hebrews. So um, I think there's a you can speak 638 00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:45.079 of a corporate predestination, which is the way Paul speaks in Ephesians. He 639 00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:51.039 calls the visible church at Ephesus the predestined in Christ. So he's not writing 640 00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:53.719 to the elect. But there's also a sense in which, yeah, sure 641 00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:58.679 God knows who will persevere till the end and so on an individual basis. 642 00:57:58.800 --> 00:58:02.199 God does know who the final elect are, but that doesn't mean that he 643 00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:07.239 caused them alone to be the elect, because we believe that God can create 644 00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:12.119 a world where there's secondary causes, and usually Calvinism is kind of hinging on 645 00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:15.639 this idea that there can't be secondary causes and God must be the immediate direct 646 00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:22.480 cause of every event. Yeah. So another question about um Orthodox tradition. 647 00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:28.960 The Orthodox tradition is infallible, right, Well, I think there's aspects of 648 00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:31.840 the tradition if you're talking about what relates to divine revelation that are infallible, 649 00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:37.199 but not every quote tradition is divine revelation or quote infallible. So what aspect 650 00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:42.000 would you say is infallible, like I know, acumenical councils. Yeah, 651 00:58:42.039 --> 00:58:45.519 I mean any anything that would pertain to divine revelation, right, So, 652 00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:49.920 I mean there are there are canons in the councils, for example, that 653 00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:53.400 relate to cities that no longer exist. Okay, so are we still baland 654 00:58:53.480 --> 00:58:58.320 to that canon? How I mean it doesn't exist? So um, there 655 00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:02.280 is a imporal aspect to some of the canons and the councils that I don't 656 00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:07.639 think equates to the eternality of the truths of divine revelation. So I think 657 00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:13.480 that's a higher category. Okay. So Paul, and you know, multiple 658 00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:16.599 passages he talks about, like you know, keeping the tradition on Orthodox often 659 00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:21.800 use that you know, passage to talk about how it's important to keeping a 660 00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:24.679 tradition, etc. But you know, how do you know what the oral 661 00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:28.840 tradition is? And like you know which traditions he's talking about? What he 662 00:59:28.920 --> 00:59:31.519 says that you should keep the traditions of other It's and Thessalonians, whether It's 663 00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:36.519 and Covinthians, because you know it, you know it. Yeah, it's 664 00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:39.719 not like a Roman calic mindset where there's a document somewhere that has all of 665 00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:44.599 them listed, or there's some secret a Gnostic tradition where you get it whispered 666 00:59:44.639 --> 00:59:47.280 into your ear when you convert. It's known in the experience in the life 667 00:59:47.320 --> 00:59:51.039 of the Church. And that's why there is no perfect list of this and 668 00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:54.559 neither Roman Calics nor Protestants have the perfect written list of all the things that 669 00:59:54.599 --> 00:59:59.639 I have to believe. The attitude, the mindset is totally different Orthodoxy because 670 01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:06.639 you're gonna experience a lot of things that tell you about divine revelation and show 671 01:00:06.719 --> 01:00:08.840 you God, the lives of the saints, the liturgy, right, So 672 01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:13.880 it's not possible to have a fixed written list of the things that you have 673 01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:17.079 to believe, Okay, But like, how do you determine which one which? 674 01:00:17.559 --> 01:00:20.599 Well, I'll give you an example. So I mean when I think 675 01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:23.800 when Paul's talking there, he's talking about the whole deposit of the Apostolic faith 676 01:00:24.039 --> 01:00:28.880 in Toto that he passed on to Timothy and what he passed on to the 677 01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:34.000 Thessalonians, right, So what that means is that something like liturgy is something 678 01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:37.159 to be passed on. For example, in when when Paul talks to Timothy 679 01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:44.000 and he's talking about the traditions to pass on excuse me, the succession to 680 01:00:44.079 --> 01:00:45.960 pass on me, he says, I laid hands on you, you lay 681 01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:52.159 hands on in after you the laying on of hands there is connected with the 682 01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.239 passing on of the whole body of the faith, so that would include apostolic 683 01:00:55.320 --> 01:01:00.480 succession as part of that deposit to be passed on. Also, liturgy is 684 01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:04.559 a great example of this because the Apostles, for whatever reason in divine providence, 685 01:01:04.599 --> 01:01:08.360 they didn't write down how the liturgy was to be conducted as far as 686 01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:13.519 we know. Maybe Paul wrote something down about that. But so in other 687 01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:17.079 words, the church is a liturgical worship itself is an attestation to this tradition 688 01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:21.559 that has passed down that is not specific in scripture, you see. So 689 01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:24.039 liturgy is a great example. So you can go read the ancient liturgies and 690 01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:28.480 you can see as I pulled up there with Nicia, I mean Nicea is 691 01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:37.199 listing cannons that clearly show the Universal Church in three twenty five operates like the 692 01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:40.599 Orthodox Church. Huh, Yeah, you talked about liturgy, and I think 693 01:01:40.760 --> 01:01:44.559 earlier you said you had, like you still have the ancient liturgies of I 694 01:01:44.679 --> 01:01:46.960 think Saint James. Correct, you can read the liturgy of Saint Mark, 695 01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:52.599 Liturgy of Saint James, Liturgy of Saint Basil. I mean Basil's a little 696 01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:55.719 later, but it's still ancient. Okay, So the ones that are written 697 01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:59.920 by the you know, Saint Mary again, Saint James. Howcome the Orthodox 698 01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:04.000 Church doesn't It does sometimes, it does, sometimes use those. It does 699 01:02:04.079 --> 01:02:08.480 sometimes, yeah, some hold on. Sometimes it uses them when it's appropriate. 700 01:02:09.079 --> 01:02:14.840 But as church history progresses, because the pre eminence of the Byzantine Empire, 701 01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:19.800 most of the Eastern Church opted towards tending to do the liturgy of Saint 702 01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:22.840 John chrys system. So sometimes it's the most of the time it's Chrystostom, 703 01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:28.559 sometimes it's Saint basil Um. But Orthodox churches that are other patriarch its will 704 01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:30.880 still do those. A's why if you can go to Western right Orthodox churches 705 01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:37.559 that do the the ancient Western right. Oh okay, So another question about 706 01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:40.239 well, I'm gonna I'm not trying to be rude, but we're gonna move 707 01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:44.239 on because like we've already done a bunch of questions. But I appreciate that. 708 01:02:44.320 --> 01:02:47.480 So we're taking, uh, given prominence to people who disagree. So 709 01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:53.599 this woman is still not here, no answers. So you can see talk 710 01:02:53.639 --> 01:02:58.679 smack all day, how dumb, how much of a coward, I'm socially 711 01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:00.679 retard and then they won't come. Same with all the other Roman Catholics that 712 01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:05.079 all day long smack smack smack, Hey, come chat, come make your 713 01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:08.199 argument come. It should be so easy, right to dunk on the ortho 714 01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:12.840 Ros. Just come dunk on us dog, and then they don't show up. 715 01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:17.440 I mean, who else is like saying you can have the floor to 716 01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:21.079 talk as long as you want to make out of arguments. But nobody else 717 01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:30.280 is saying that that would would the wood David? Yo, let's say, 718 01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:36.280 can you hear me? Um? Okay? I had a question, No, 719 01:03:36.519 --> 01:03:40.960 do you disagree? Hello? Yeah, do you disagree? Oh? 720 01:03:42.079 --> 01:03:45.360 No? Um? Are you sho? You go ahead? I mean, 721 01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:46.760 but I want to get preference to people that disagree, but go ahead, 722 01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:52.199 okay. So, um, I had a question because I was looking into 723 01:03:52.280 --> 01:03:57.039 different realist positions and um, it's reading Aristotle, and I was wondering, 724 01:03:57.199 --> 01:04:02.800 um, what your critiques of there was Mondo's view of objective essences, universals, 725 01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:06.199 holomorphism and like that kind of stuff, Like what do you think you're 726 01:04:06.280 --> 01:04:10.239 critique with that of? That would be yeah, So you can read the 727 01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:15.000 doctor Philip Sherard paper on Immortality of Man and the soul. I forget the 728 01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:19.119 name of it, but that's a good critique of that. I'm not trying 729 01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:21.519 to be rude, but we're not. That's not the topics today. So 730 01:04:21.559 --> 01:04:28.679 the topics today are atheism, Protestantism, Islam, pagans, cults, world 731 01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:31.760 religions. I thought our wine mom was going to call in, but she 732 01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:39.920 is. I thought I was promised entertainment, you see, and now I'm 733 01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:45.480 let down. Jordan, what's up? Well, the way you guys can 734 01:04:45.519 --> 01:04:48.960 support the stream via super chats through stream labs. Use the stream labs function 735 01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:57.039 to ask your questions sending your super chats right there by the way. Does 736 01:04:57.079 --> 01:05:00.360 anybody mean to the Baptist guy? Nope. Remember when Dale had his meltdown 737 01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:08.760 this last week. If you guys didn't see the Baptist not Baptist, that 738 01:05:08.960 --> 01:05:17.559 was an interesting interview. I thought it was a just a discussion. I 739 01:05:17.639 --> 01:05:21.199 didn't realize that when we went there and showed up. I don't care that 740 01:05:21.320 --> 01:05:24.840 it was going to be a quasi debate. So I want to recommend that 741 01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:29.840 everybody go watch this uh pretty lengthy debate that we have with Dale here the 742 01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:38.360 Protestant if you want it was me and doctor Branson in some Protestant guys and 743 01:05:38.599 --> 01:05:42.679 everybody's really cool. We had a good time. And then, for whatever 744 01:05:42.760 --> 01:05:45.920 reason, throughout this discussion, and the only reason I'm bringing this up is 745 01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:49.360 that nobody was rude or mean to Dale. Nobody did anything mean. And 746 01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:56.519 then what happened was after that extensive discussion, he did an hour plus melt 747 01:05:56.599 --> 01:06:01.400 down stream that everybody whose orthodox is mean and awful and satanic. And this 748 01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:05.239 is the pattern that I see, right, which is that people make this 749 01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:11.079 big start of this big fuss. You can interact with him in a completely 750 01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:15.360 charitable, civil way. Nobody was mean to Dale. Nobody said anything rude 751 01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:18.280 to him at all. And what did he do? Oh? I was 752 01:06:18.360 --> 01:06:21.079 person here as a victim. There's so many of you, there's so rude. 753 01:06:23.400 --> 01:06:27.199 He cried about it. Okay, nobody was mean to you. Man. 754 01:06:27.400 --> 01:06:30.039 People are gonna have to man up. I mean, this is just 755 01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:33.199 pitiful to act this way. And everybody can see when people act this way 756 01:06:34.280 --> 01:06:38.039 that it's ridiculous. Just like the Roman Catholic guy today, right, what 757 01:06:38.119 --> 01:06:44.920 did he do? You? Gordduc a fool of trash bulls horseshit? Oh? 758 01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:47.000 Okay, come on, in debate, you're so mean, can't duck, 759 01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:51.039 can't do whether you're uncharitable. These people do all of the things they 760 01:06:51.079 --> 01:07:02.239 say is uncharitable, virtuous victims signaling dart triad traits. If the genie mgatachi, 761 01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:10.159 I can't pronounce your name, what's up hello? Um? I was 762 01:07:10.239 --> 01:07:13.440 wondering, Jane, just really quickly, because I was trying to study the 763 01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:15.639 Church Fathers, like, um, what do you think it's the best responses 764 01:07:15.880 --> 01:07:20.639 like by the Church Fathers to pirniu is on slash academic skepticism. And also, 765 01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:27.239 um like post Roll's bracketing method because I've been trying to research I think 766 01:07:27.400 --> 01:07:30.760 like those methods because they've been appealing to me for a long time. I 767 01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:34.400 was wondering, like, all right, well, post Roles bracketing is still 768 01:07:34.519 --> 01:07:42.039 based on the notions of epistemic neutrality and that reality is not theory laden. 769 01:07:42.400 --> 01:07:45.000 So bracketing doesn't really get anywhere or do anything. It doesn't do the work 770 01:07:45.039 --> 01:07:48.400 he wants it to do. And that's why later host Rol like wandered off 771 01:07:48.400 --> 01:07:54.519 into like quasi Buddhist views. Um, where do the Church Fathers deal with 772 01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:58.719 Purrhanism? Well, I mean Athanations has a book called agentes, which deals 773 01:07:58.719 --> 01:08:01.480 with a lot of like classical pagan arguments. But I would think that puronic 774 01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:10.000 skepticism is kind of easy and self refuting, so um like in its method 775 01:08:10.119 --> 01:08:13.840 of like epoch like I mean, in the modern time, I think it's 776 01:08:13.960 --> 01:08:18.800 has been like dissolved into like fallibilism for the most time. People like people 777 01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:24.640 accept that you can't have no anything absolutely, so you know that they'll you'll 778 01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:30.520 book put like fallibilism as a charge you is like a threat to tag or 779 01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:38.560 does it not solve the self authenticating um foundation question? Still yeah, I 780 01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:42.880 think it would have the same epistemic problems that we always highlight with versions of 781 01:08:42.920 --> 01:08:47.079 evidentialism and foundationalism. Um. I mean, if you're if you're gonna be 782 01:08:47.079 --> 01:08:51.479 a skeptic, you're giving up debate. And so if if a person wants 783 01:08:51.479 --> 01:08:54.560 to live that way and go that way, number one, they can't live 784 01:08:54.640 --> 01:08:57.840 that way. Um. But the point is that from the advantage point of 785 01:08:57.880 --> 01:09:00.760 apologetics, if a person accepts that word view, then they don't have anything 786 01:09:00.800 --> 01:09:04.359 against Christianity. So we've done our job right. Our job is not to 787 01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:11.439 uh put out the official refutation of every possible position. If our job our 788 01:09:11.520 --> 01:09:15.359 job is to show the positions to be absurd, and if they surrender objective 789 01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:18.760 logic, debate, certitude, et cetera, all those kinds of basic principles, 790 01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:23.720 then I mean we've done our job as an apologist. Skepticism is not 791 01:09:23.800 --> 01:09:29.000 a real viable position. It's it's really a surrendering. Well, I mean, 792 01:09:29.119 --> 01:09:34.159 it's been like one of the most influential movements throughout Western philosophy Dykart Hume, 793 01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:39.920 you know, etc. Like um, that people have been treating it 794 01:09:40.039 --> 01:09:42.800 as like like almost a stats point. So like I feel like a lot 795 01:09:42.840 --> 01:09:46.520 of theism has grown it onticism. So and so every time they make every 796 01:09:46.560 --> 01:09:50.199 time they debate, they're defying that principle and proving it to be false. 797 01:09:53.720 --> 01:09:59.000 Skepticism. Yeah, well, I mean, like yeah, they might have 798 01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:02.079 to like say it's like a method of inquiry, but it's like, you're 799 01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:05.199 right, it's not just a method of inquiry. It's a it's a world 800 01:10:05.239 --> 01:10:11.680 view. You're talking about puronic skepticism. There's no you can't have your cake 801 01:10:11.720 --> 01:10:14.359 and eat it too, right, This is what the epistemic nihilists try to 802 01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:15.640 do. They try to have their cake and eat it too, and it 803 01:10:15.680 --> 01:10:23.600 does it doesn't work that way because they're like in assuming a world view implicitly 804 01:10:23.960 --> 01:10:30.159 absolutely every sentence assumes an entire world view. Yeah, but is there any 805 01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:33.359 way for them to get out of that by saying that they are there like 806 01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:38.079 that. That might be the case that they are assuming things, but they're 807 01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:42.600 suspending judgment about No, exactly, it's manifest. No, you can't know. 808 01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:45.960 It's that's a that's just bait and switch. That's that's lying because you 809 01:10:46.119 --> 01:10:50.520 can't utilize things that. Then you say, you don't have to justify. 810 01:10:51.279 --> 01:10:55.880 Oh, my sentence is all presupposed logic and universals and all these things. 811 01:10:55.920 --> 01:10:58.039 But I don't have to give a justication for those because I'm a skeptic. 812 01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:03.000 That's just that's being a sophist, like in in the outline. Look, 813 01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:06.439 if they can do that, I can do that. Okay, Well I 814 01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:12.039 believe in God and I don't have to give an account for it because it 815 01:11:12.159 --> 01:11:15.920 just is. So they're basically just saying it just is. It's not just 816 01:11:16.039 --> 01:11:19.880 like it's just a conforms with their appearances. No, that's it. That 817 01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:23.560 is to say that. No, No, that is to say that it 818 01:11:23.680 --> 01:11:26.600 just is. Well, why is it? Why am I supposed to follow 819 01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:31.079 with what appears to conform to my appearances or to my experience. Right, 820 01:11:31.199 --> 01:11:35.119 So it's begging the question to say that, well, uh, my skeptical 821 01:11:35.399 --> 01:11:41.720 propositions require entire metaphysics, but I'm not going to be committed to those metaphysics. 822 01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:48.159 Well, then that's just being sophistical in like in saying that you're like 823 01:11:48.279 --> 01:11:51.960 you're they don't get Look, they don't get out of this dilemma because they 824 01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:57.840 say I'm a skeptic this. It's it's self evident in this sense that that 825 01:11:58.000 --> 01:12:01.479 doesn't work because if they can do that, I can do that. Oh 826 01:12:01.479 --> 01:12:04.520 okay, then God exists. I don't have to give a justification. It 827 01:12:04.680 --> 01:12:11.560 just is well, I doesn't that depend on the notion that they're saying it. 828 01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:15.399 It just is No, I guess no. Everybody has the same requirements 829 01:12:15.439 --> 01:12:18.119 for justification. That's the purpose of debate. So as soon as they enter 830 01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:23.720 into the utilization of logic, universals, et cetera, they don't get to 831 01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:26.920 just say, but I don't think there are logic and universals, because nobody 832 01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:32.239 can know. That's just being again a sophistry. Can they at least question, 833 01:12:32.319 --> 01:12:36.199 like the method in which the transcendentials are No, because the making a 834 01:12:36.319 --> 01:12:42.079 sentence requires a certain making a sentence requires a certain kind of world, certain 835 01:12:42.159 --> 01:12:46.079 kind of metaphysical structure to reality. Oh yeah, it's it's perfectly evident. 836 01:12:46.319 --> 01:12:50.279 I meant more that like the method in which the transidentials are derived, that 837 01:12:50.479 --> 01:12:53.680 we come to them in the first place, like holesteral, you know, 838 01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:59.800 the epoch method is going from the ground versus you know it's yeah, you're 839 01:12:59.800 --> 01:13:04.119 just you're just grasping for another human uh, system building project. The point 840 01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:10.000 is that human system. Humans can't build this kind of a system. How 841 01:13:10.039 --> 01:13:13.399 are you gonna how are you gonna build an epistemology from the ground up? 842 01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:17.159 Given that just the fact that man's finite, Well, I mean, I 843 01:13:17.199 --> 01:13:20.720 feel like there's like a it's not that man is finite, but almost it's 844 01:13:20.760 --> 01:13:25.920 like there's semi infinite in that they possible. Wait a minute, but see 845 01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:31.079 now you've launched into a vast metaphysical idea. So so what is this? 846 01:13:31.479 --> 01:13:36.479 Is it skepticism or these obscure metaphysics of hust roll like which or are you 847 01:13:36.560 --> 01:13:42.000 like them both? It's it's I feel like hustle is kind of like both, 848 01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:45.199 like it's even not like the ancient skeptics, because it's not like he 849 01:13:45.319 --> 01:13:48.039 has no mentaphysics, right, Like he was a transcendental idealist for most of 850 01:13:48.119 --> 01:13:51.960 his lives. Yeah, but but I mean then he would number one to 851 01:13:51.960 --> 01:13:57.399 be subject to the same problems of Kant. Number two, why did that 852 01:13:57.479 --> 01:14:00.319 take him into basically some sort of Buddhist position towards end of his life? 853 01:14:00.920 --> 01:14:05.680 And number three, the whole project, the bracketing is built on. They're 854 01:14:06.039 --> 01:14:12.439 not being uh that that reality is not theory laden. So you're gonna have 855 01:14:12.560 --> 01:14:16.880 to first, I would say, solve the dilemma of um saying that reality 856 01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:23.840 is not theory laden. Sure, I'll have to wrestle those questions. Yeah, 857 01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:26.359 but I mean these again, the point though, is that these are 858 01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:30.000 futile projects, right, It's like, what's the point. What was the 859 01:14:30.039 --> 01:14:34.720 reference? Oh um? But something about Alexandria, about against the pagan arguments 860 01:14:34.760 --> 01:14:43.800 that you ran, oh Athanasius's book against the Heathen or ad Gentes. That's 861 01:14:43.840 --> 01:14:45.920 great, thank you for your time. Yeah, well good, good questions. 862 01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:49.159 Yeah, we haven't had those kinds of questions in a while. Let's 863 01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:58.319 see here. I can't believe our my mom never called in Christian logos. 864 01:14:58.920 --> 01:15:01.920 This sounds like, is this going to be our evangelical guy that always like, 865 01:15:02.039 --> 01:15:04.800 how many profiles does this guy have if this is him? Right? 866 01:15:06.600 --> 01:15:13.920 The one man I had a question too about tell us down kind of what 867 01:15:14.119 --> 01:15:19.239 your disagreements were with them. Well, I don't necessarily have a problem with 868 01:15:19.279 --> 01:15:25.199 a person who is newly converted trying to be a public person or something like 869 01:15:25.279 --> 01:15:28.279 that, because I was already kind of doing this stuff when I converted. 870 01:15:28.840 --> 01:15:31.399 And of course he claims that he has permission to be doing what he does, 871 01:15:31.520 --> 01:15:34.399 so I'm not coming at him on the basis of that. But the 872 01:15:34.479 --> 01:15:40.520 repeated pattern of, you know, working with and aligning with people who are 873 01:15:40.600 --> 01:15:45.000 very hostile to what we do is one problem. He's committed to promoting an 874 01:15:45.039 --> 01:15:49.479 ecclesiology that I think is wrong. Every time we have a conversation about it, 875 01:15:49.960 --> 01:15:54.920 he basically just doubles down. The argumentation that he uses in the papers 876 01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:58.279 that he cites are kind of low tier. They're pretty bad. It's like 877 01:15:58.399 --> 01:16:01.880 citing the Old Testament about the fact that there was northern Israel and southern Israel 878 01:16:02.039 --> 01:16:06.439 as if that's applicable on a one to one basis to the Church. Or 879 01:16:06.439 --> 01:16:10.039 the New Testament. No, the New Testament. We're told that the Church 880 01:16:10.079 --> 01:16:13.960 cannot be divided, so you can't use these Old Testament examples as if the 881 01:16:14.119 --> 01:16:16.199 church is Old Testament Israel or something. I mean, just the whole and 882 01:16:16.279 --> 01:16:21.760 the whole project is all about we have to figure out how Roman Catholics have 883 01:16:23.640 --> 01:16:28.399 holy orders. And it's just silly because once you start digging into it, 884 01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:32.600 you find out that really this ends up being number one ignorant people that are 885 01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:36.520 ignorant of the Roman Catholic position because they don't realize that the development of the 886 01:16:36.600 --> 01:16:41.479 Roman Catholic position was that matter, form and intention are what you need for 887 01:16:41.560 --> 01:16:44.880 a sacrament, and that leads to atheists and Muslims being able to baptize. 888 01:16:45.439 --> 01:16:48.640 So so they're gonna have to be consistent and either go in that direction with 889 01:16:48.920 --> 01:16:55.119 this sighting of Fluorovsky, as if we just follow Flurovsky because he's Fluorovsky, 890 01:16:55.199 --> 01:16:59.159 right, that's all they ever do is cy Fluovsky, and the guy that 891 01:16:59.199 --> 01:17:04.439 they all united himselves with went total Foremite liberal. So I don't know, 892 01:17:04.560 --> 01:17:10.199 I mean, it's just like a repeated pattern of bad behavior, and you 893 01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:12.199 know, and then he says, oh, they don't know how to use 894 01:17:12.279 --> 01:17:15.159 transcendental arguments. The dude literally just got into this like what a year, 895 01:17:15.399 --> 01:17:17.520 six months ago, and he's like, Oh, they don't know how to 896 01:17:17.560 --> 01:17:21.399 do transcendental argumentation. It's just it's just silly pride. And you know, 897 01:17:21.479 --> 01:17:25.880 We've been super nice for that dude, and I've always tried to be kind 898 01:17:25.920 --> 01:17:30.720 to him, and he just wants to be a douche, so whatever. 899 01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:34.680 Yeah, yeah, and he kind of goes for this like communal ontological argument 900 01:17:34.760 --> 01:17:39.560 over the transcendental kind of tag form that you use, and to me, 901 01:17:39.720 --> 01:17:42.520 I just see an issue with this, and he coins it like the communal 902 01:17:42.560 --> 01:17:45.199 ontological argument, which, you know, I respect people that going on doing 903 01:17:45.279 --> 01:17:48.720 this, but even me studying philosophy for three four years now, I'm still 904 01:17:49.239 --> 01:17:51.560 struggling and grappling with a lot of this. Yeah, I mean, he 905 01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:56.479 shouldn't he shouldn't be I'm sure maybe he means well, but he shouldn't be 906 01:17:56.520 --> 01:17:59.439 doing it. It's gonna and what happens is that this least a disaster a 907 01:17:59.479 --> 01:18:02.279 lot of times. People that and all the people that he's aligned himself with, 908 01:18:02.600 --> 01:18:08.600 like they're essentially basically Petrodox and apost date Now so you know he wants 909 01:18:08.600 --> 01:18:13.279 to go on that conquest. I mean, it's just the problems that happen 910 01:18:13.359 --> 01:18:16.239 with a really young person that is a new new convert. So I would 911 01:18:16.279 --> 01:18:19.880 say avoid two loss bound. Yeah, I got you. And do you 912 01:18:19.960 --> 01:18:24.800 have any like specific arguments against his communal ontological argument. I feel like that 913 01:18:24.920 --> 01:18:29.359 kind of falls back into natural theology. Yeah, any any type of argument 914 01:18:29.439 --> 01:18:32.800 like that would be essentially a natural theology type of argument. So I'm just 915 01:18:32.840 --> 01:18:39.119 going to ask the basic critiques that I would have of any any position that 916 01:18:39.479 --> 01:18:45.600 posits self evidence axiomatic principles, because they don't achieve, they don't achieve the 917 01:18:45.640 --> 01:18:49.680 status of justification. Yeah. No, I'm saying agreed. I feel like, 918 01:18:49.720 --> 01:18:54.520 you know, in your transcendental argument for tag it can entail you know, 919 01:18:54.640 --> 01:18:57.359 the ontological argument. You can still use these arguments, Yes, you 920 01:18:57.439 --> 01:19:00.439 can make it, you can make for a higher justification there, correct, 921 01:19:00.520 --> 01:19:03.239 Whereas he's kind of pushing that away and kind of merging the Catholic kind of 922 01:19:03.319 --> 01:19:08.279 natural theological. Yeah. The whole project of everything, Yes, everything he's 923 01:19:08.319 --> 01:19:13.840 doing is to try to make it an ecumenist Roman Catholic. And it's just 924 01:19:14.039 --> 01:19:15.960 like we've we've all been through that. Man, we already know all the 925 01:19:16.319 --> 01:19:19.920 pushes in the try to. We don't need you a new convert to save 926 01:19:20.079 --> 01:19:25.880 orthodox apologetics and to save Orthodoxy and give it Thomisum and oh we gotta. 927 01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:29.279 I'm not saying he's giving it thomism. I'm talking about like I've seen this 928 01:19:29.560 --> 01:19:32.359 many many times, Like people come to the church, especially if they're academics 929 01:19:32.479 --> 01:19:36.279 or philosophers, and they almost always think, I need to save Orthodoxy with 930 01:19:36.479 --> 01:19:41.319 this thing. I need to make them Thomas father Deacon himself says that he 931 01:19:41.439 --> 01:19:44.159 used to be this way, and thank God that he changed his mind, 932 01:19:44.880 --> 01:19:47.159 right, yeah, yeah. And the thing that I stumble across all the 933 01:19:47.239 --> 01:19:49.359 time is, you know, you think you have this bright new idea, 934 01:19:49.439 --> 01:19:53.600 or you see some thread line, and after a couple of minutes of study, 935 01:19:53.600 --> 01:19:55.680 a couple of months of studying, you fall right back into Oh, 936 01:19:55.760 --> 01:19:58.560 this has been in the church Father's for years. I just haven't studied enough. 937 01:19:58.680 --> 01:20:00.399 You know, a lot of this comes up as you're going so hopefully 938 01:20:00.439 --> 01:20:03.600 on my channel. I've never misframed you or anything like that. If you 939 01:20:03.640 --> 01:20:08.319 ever do have any critiques for me or anything, I'm more than open does 940 01:20:08.359 --> 01:20:12.399 too. So yeah, and I appreciate that approach, and I think that 941 01:20:12.760 --> 01:20:15.000 on a one to one level too, Los belland was has always been open 942 01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:20.239 to discussing these things, but it doesn't get anywhere, and he just keeps, 943 01:20:20.399 --> 01:20:25.319 uh, you know, doubling down. So and he you know, 944 01:20:25.399 --> 01:20:28.520 continues to align himself with the people who again don't like what we do. 945 01:20:28.680 --> 01:20:31.840 And so I wouldn't. I would avoid that, dude. Yeah, one 946 01:20:31.880 --> 01:20:36.279 more question, just with Pavlov Florensky too. Do you have any disagreements with 947 01:20:36.439 --> 01:20:41.720 Pablov Forensky. I talked to Bishop Maximus before and he's like, yeah, 948 01:20:41.720 --> 01:20:44.920 I'll never read that guy, Like, we don't really follow anything he says. 949 01:20:45.439 --> 01:20:46.520 And I was kind of looking more into that, and I wondered if 950 01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:51.000 maybe you knew I have. I've only heard I've heard negative and positive things. 951 01:20:51.199 --> 01:20:56.079 I know Laski cites him positively in one place, so he might be 952 01:20:56.119 --> 01:20:59.760 insightful. But I've not read uh Florensky, so I can't say. But 953 01:21:00.880 --> 01:21:02.359 okay, yeah, the Pillar and going to Truth like it has some pretty 954 01:21:02.399 --> 01:21:05.279 good arguments, but I can see where he can maybe be stepping kind of 955 01:21:05.319 --> 01:21:09.239 on that border line of just kind of getting skeptical with it or kind of 956 01:21:09.279 --> 01:21:12.359 getting a little too far out there maybe, so I can kind I can 957 01:21:12.439 --> 01:21:15.199 kind of see points of contention there, but overall, you know, I 958 01:21:15.279 --> 01:21:17.319 was just wondering what your opinions were on all that. So I do appreciate 959 01:21:17.399 --> 01:21:19.760 that, Jay, thank you. Yeah. And usually, by the way, 960 01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:23.880 people like Tilo's Balance or people that we helped convert, and then they 961 01:21:24.039 --> 01:21:26.359 don't listen and they go do their own they want to be on their own 962 01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:30.119 quest and they make huge mistakes and then they have to learn the hard way. 963 01:21:30.199 --> 01:21:35.800 So Ater eight, did you want to say something? No, I 964 01:21:35.920 --> 01:21:42.359 just u requestion in case you guys wanted to ask anything. Okay, Yeah, 965 01:21:42.439 --> 01:21:45.840 I mean if you if you know anything about Pablo Fornsky two or which 966 01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:47.960 you've heard. I've been doing this for about four years. I'm twenty six, 967 01:21:48.039 --> 01:21:50.640 so I'm not going to claim I know everything. I'm definitely just trying 968 01:21:50.680 --> 01:21:55.479 to find sources that know more than I do so I can keep progressing. 969 01:21:55.560 --> 01:22:02.119 You know, I don't know too much. I've run a few things um 970 01:22:03.800 --> 01:22:09.039 that seemed okay from what I read, but that doesn't mean everything is So 971 01:22:09.239 --> 01:22:15.359 I'm just not qualified to speak on Okay, I'll get it. Alex Bain, 972 01:22:15.479 --> 01:22:19.560 what's up, Alex? Thank you for those questions? Uh, logos, 973 01:22:19.560 --> 01:22:24.960 So those are good. I'm glad you weren't the evangelical dude that always 974 01:22:24.960 --> 01:22:28.319 calls in. Thanks. Yeah, Joe, I just want to know why 975 01:22:28.359 --> 01:22:32.960 you're a coward and you never want to debate me. Uh is this a 976 01:22:33.039 --> 01:22:39.199 real question? Yeah? You are that, you are there, You are 977 01:22:39.319 --> 01:22:42.399 a good argument. You don't make a good argument. You repeat the same 978 01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:45.359 argument for two years now. Every time you come on, you don't deal 979 01:22:45.399 --> 01:22:48.279 with it, and you kick me off, and you because because I don't 980 01:22:48.319 --> 01:22:51.079 want to because yeah, I'm scared of you. Yeah, I've had you 981 01:22:51.239 --> 01:22:56.520 on infinite numbers of times because you have some mental obsession, Like why do 982 01:22:56.600 --> 01:22:58.760 you even want to interact with me? If I don't want to interact with 983 01:22:58.840 --> 01:23:00.720 you, why do you want to act with me? Just attention? Because 984 01:23:00.720 --> 01:23:01.680 I try to get my point across and every time we do. Yeah, 985 01:23:01.680 --> 01:23:04.800 but you just state the same You just state the same audience. You just 986 01:23:04.920 --> 01:23:11.600 state the same thing over and over and over. Here he is, so 987 01:23:11.680 --> 01:23:14.359 are you gonna interact with Are you gonna run away? Yeah? I'm scared 988 01:23:14.359 --> 01:23:16.880 to be terrified, gonna run away. Okay, so go ahead and boot 989 01:23:17.840 --> 01:23:23.359 wildly. Yeah, totally coward. I mean, I just like the delude, 990 01:23:23.439 --> 01:23:28.279 Like, does anybody actually think that that is going to convince? Like 991 01:23:28.399 --> 01:23:30.239 if I was that dude, and I'm sitting there thinking like, how am 992 01:23:30.279 --> 01:23:33.880 I going to win people over to my position? How can I get people 993 01:23:33.920 --> 01:23:39.439 following me on Twitter and getting some good traction to think that this mode, 994 01:23:39.479 --> 01:23:42.159 this approach is the way to do it. I'm just gonna give you a 995 01:23:42.199 --> 01:23:46.520 little bit of social media advice, bro, Like, just just strict social 996 01:23:46.600 --> 01:23:53.720 media advice, like this isn't working to make a new profile and to come 997 01:23:53.760 --> 01:23:59.920 with the same low tier droning on nonsense every time. It's just your way 998 01:24:00.159 --> 01:24:03.680 and everybody's time. Dude, Like how much this is what your tenth profile 999 01:24:09.119 --> 01:24:15.079 and you literally bring the lowest to an argument ever. So the this is 1000 01:24:15.159 --> 01:24:20.239 open for him if you'd like to come on, eve something, if Genie 1001 01:24:20.520 --> 01:24:29.079 Migachev star Russian Mexican that sounds scary. I'm sorry, I thought you weren't 1002 01:24:29.079 --> 01:24:31.000 going to come on. Just request to speak again, Yeah, so our 1003 01:24:31.760 --> 01:24:38.840 you didn't request to speak. So here's our neo platonist pagan woman saying I've 1004 01:24:38.880 --> 01:24:42.079 requested to speak. She has never requested to speak. She's not in the 1005 01:24:47.479 --> 01:24:51.479 she's not in the quay. She's never been in the quay. It's amazing 1006 01:24:57.960 --> 01:25:01.319 the Orthobro subculture. Now we got Cabarro talking shit. It's just unreal, 1007 01:25:01.439 --> 01:25:04.319 Like everybody, what happened with all the Romans? Did something happen in the 1008 01:25:04.399 --> 01:25:08.920 Roman Catholic world today that made everybody just go ferle and get mad. Let's 1009 01:25:08.960 --> 01:25:13.119 see what Let's see what old Ericabara is chewing on today. Something sweet. 1010 01:25:13.119 --> 01:25:19.399 I'm sure to be very clear, and you're not sympathize with the disgust. 1011 01:25:19.640 --> 01:25:27.000 Wait to be very clear, I truly do sympathize, and I've grown even 1012 01:25:27.119 --> 01:25:30.319 more. I've growth even more. I don't know if he's talking about his 1013 01:25:30.439 --> 01:25:34.439 weight or if he's talking about his emotions. That the disgust of such people 1014 01:25:34.520 --> 01:25:42.560 in the Orthobro subculture. The Orthobro subculture, let's just have our way and 1015 01:25:42.640 --> 01:25:45.199 agree and be happy. Let's nuance our way through the failures. Now, 1016 01:25:45.319 --> 01:25:49.159 wait a minute, you're the nuance bro. You and your carbohydrate companion over 1017 01:25:49.239 --> 01:25:54.880 there that ditched you, y'all were the ones always talking about those nuance boo 1018 01:25:55.760 --> 01:26:00.439 yo dog there's nuance bo I'm loft and bra and then you're over the joke, 1019 01:26:00.239 --> 01:26:04.880 Jake. Let's take this piece, buff piece, and in three months 1020 01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:14.039 I'll finish my argument because a talking point three speed right. I sympathize with 1021 01:26:14.159 --> 01:26:18.239 the Orthobros, but not their evil subculture. I think that's what he's saying. 1022 01:26:19.600 --> 01:26:23.680 We are trying to fix a two plus two equals three error. So 1023 01:26:24.039 --> 01:26:29.000 again, Eric, maybe Rome Catholicism is false. I'm sorry that you wrote 1024 01:26:29.039 --> 01:26:33.720 a giant fat copy paste paper book last year that nobody bought that you thought 1025 01:26:33.800 --> 01:26:42.319 would make you super apologists. But how come Loften ditched you? Does that 1026 01:26:42.479 --> 01:26:48.319 not vindicate all the stuff that we said about carbohydrate lofton. Here's Abara's whining 1027 01:26:48.399 --> 01:27:00.920 today. It's a garbled I don't know what he's responding to me about, 1028 01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:04.039 saying that all of the Roman Catholics on Twitter today that we're talking smack wouldn't 1029 01:27:04.039 --> 01:27:12.000 come and none of them did. And so his garbled sort of whatever he's 1030 01:27:12.039 --> 01:27:15.520 saying and what's he doing. He's whining and saying that I treat everything like 1031 01:27:15.600 --> 01:27:20.199 an MMA cage match. So again, it's just these people. Never ends 1032 01:27:20.239 --> 01:27:32.960 with these people, and we all know he's soft because he's physically soft, 1033 01:27:33.439 --> 01:27:44.000 right, I mean physiognomy test. Bro, you look like Bluto. So, 1034 01:27:44.159 --> 01:27:45.199 guys, if you want to come on debate, hit the request to 1035 01:27:45.239 --> 01:27:49.359 speak button. I will give you the I mean again, all of these, 1036 01:27:49.600 --> 01:27:55.680 all they've done is bitch and wine. Isn't this amazing? This is 1037 01:27:55.760 --> 01:27:59.680 always available? Here we are. How many years ago was the Barrow debate? 1038 01:27:59.720 --> 01:28:03.399 Five years? Six years? Lofton has thrown him under the bus. 1039 01:28:03.840 --> 01:28:06.960 He's not on there anymore. They had a falling out, as everyone who's 1040 01:28:08.039 --> 01:28:11.359 in associated with Lofton has a falling out. They get thrown under the bus 1041 01:28:13.039 --> 01:28:15.800 by him. They get thrown under the bus on the way to the buffet. 1042 01:28:18.319 --> 01:28:21.239 I take that back. You can't physically throw Abara under the bus. 1043 01:28:23.760 --> 01:28:27.399 You could throw Abara onto the bus and it would destroy the bus, but 1044 01:28:27.479 --> 01:28:34.920 you can't throw Eric under the bus. Candy Ibarra over there has done nothing 1045 01:28:35.039 --> 01:28:40.479 but wine and bitch for five years straight. So people are always like, 1046 01:28:40.560 --> 01:28:43.720 what do you mean to I'm not mean to Roman Catholics. Every time we 1047 01:28:43.880 --> 01:28:47.520 reach out and our civil and kind and nice, as for example with Tim 1048 01:28:47.600 --> 01:28:55.880 Gordon, we make jokes back and forth. Tim makes jokes I was joking 1049 01:28:55.920 --> 01:29:00.000 with Tim about having a lesbian haircut and my lesbian glasses. I don't care. 1050 01:29:01.479 --> 01:29:04.880 But what happens is that people like Abara. You can't joke with these 1051 01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:09.520 people. They're so fragile. They freak out, they melt down. Remember 1052 01:29:09.560 --> 01:29:13.800 whenever Erica Bara was crying that he said, quote, somebody memed him. 1053 01:29:13.880 --> 01:29:17.079 Do the internet memes everybody? Somebody memed Abara? And he said, the 1054 01:29:17.279 --> 01:29:21.520 Internet is making cartoon strips of me, cartoon strips. I don't even know 1055 01:29:21.560 --> 01:29:25.960 what a meme is. Dude, aren't you like, how old are you 1056 01:29:26.079 --> 01:29:33.399 not a boomer? Cartoon strips? What is this Dilbert cartoon strips they're making? 1057 01:29:33.720 --> 01:29:38.560 He said, they made Internet cartoon strips of me. And I'm embarrassed 1058 01:29:38.600 --> 01:29:41.399 because my sons will see it on the Internet. We'll welcome to the Internet. 1059 01:29:42.000 --> 01:29:45.560 I'm sorry that you got your feelings hurt. And this is nothing, 1060 01:29:45.600 --> 01:29:49.840 it's nothing but nothing but an excuse for so many years. And look this 1061 01:29:50.039 --> 01:29:55.319 is what five six years into this now and they're still using the excuse that 1062 01:29:55.439 --> 01:29:58.960 I mean, How come Tim Gordon can interact with me? Absolutely fine. 1063 01:30:00.119 --> 01:30:02.520 If the whole problem is that I'm mean and by the way, everybody's seen 1064 01:30:02.640 --> 01:30:06.800 that. As we said about Lofton, he's thrown all of the friends and 1065 01:30:06.840 --> 01:30:15.800 people that he had with him under the bus. That's doesn't that suggest that 1066 01:30:15.199 --> 01:30:18.600 maybe it wasn't my problem. Maybe I wasn't the problem in the Lofton situation. 1067 01:30:19.560 --> 01:30:25.159 Maybe a borrow wasn't the problem in the Lofton situation. But they're still 1068 01:30:25.319 --> 01:30:32.880 whining, still whining. Still, he's too mean to interact with. How 1069 01:30:32.960 --> 01:30:38.239 come Muslims and atheists can interact fine over here? How come I'm gonna have 1070 01:30:38.279 --> 01:30:45.760 a debate with Hikikachu. With Pikachu, you don't see Pikachu whining. Eric, 1071 01:30:45.840 --> 01:30:50.000 I'm gonna help you out here. Number one, put down the food. 1072 01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:54.880 I'm being serious. I'm not being mean to you. I'm being mean 1073 01:30:55.439 --> 01:31:00.319 to help you out. Get on the carnivore diet because you are healthy. 1074 01:31:00.159 --> 01:31:08.600 Being that large and unhealthy literally will affect your mind. So you're effeminate, 1075 01:31:08.800 --> 01:31:13.079 constantly getting upset and whining might have to do in part with your diet. 1076 01:31:13.119 --> 01:31:19.159 I'm being serious. And if you do that and you figure out that, 1077 01:31:20.039 --> 01:31:29.479 oh maybe that actually might help me, then you'll see that the jokes, 1078 01:31:29.640 --> 01:31:34.760 all of this, it's not ultimately from a mean spirit. We don't want 1079 01:31:34.760 --> 01:31:39.640 to be enemies with you or any of these people, but I'm sorry that 1080 01:31:39.840 --> 01:31:42.640 you can't take jokes. I'm sorry. I mean, I don't care if 1081 01:31:42.960 --> 01:31:45.800 Kim Gordon I made fund of Tim Gordon, he made fun of me and 1082 01:31:45.920 --> 01:31:47.079 then we talked and had a good time. You see how that works. 1083 01:31:47.119 --> 01:31:53.319 That's what guys do, right. A man who has to disagreement another man 1084 01:31:53.680 --> 01:31:58.159 can laugh about it, have a fight. You're fine. Maybe you can 1085 01:31:58.199 --> 01:32:01.239 even have a boxing match. That's a masculine way to settle least. That's 1086 01:32:01.239 --> 01:32:04.920 what men do. Crying and whining on the internet that somebody who's mean to 1087 01:32:04.960 --> 01:32:12.600 you and hurt your feelings is effeminate some others. Then you need a makeover. 1088 01:32:13.119 --> 01:32:16.479 No, I'm not a soy man. I don't do makeovers. So 1089 01:32:16.760 --> 01:32:19.119 you can take that over to the Roman Catholics and tell them to get a 1090 01:32:19.279 --> 01:32:23.399 makeover. That's not what I do. So if you want to come on 1091 01:32:23.439 --> 01:32:28.600 and chat, I'm going to give preference to people that disagree following Jazmine, 1092 01:32:28.640 --> 01:32:34.960 what's up, dude, I have no point to make, so I attack 1093 01:32:35.039 --> 01:32:43.000 the person. Really literally been over here for how many years critiquing Roman Catholicism 1094 01:32:43.159 --> 01:32:46.920 in probably hundreds of hours of video, hundreds of hours of video. And 1095 01:32:47.039 --> 01:32:51.920 you think that I don't have an argument only that's called making jokes, dummy, 1096 01:32:53.079 --> 01:32:56.119 That's called rhetoric. It's part of debate. Go watch the eight hour 1097 01:32:56.279 --> 01:33:03.960 response to Trent Horn. You don't go nothing but being mean? Dude, 1098 01:33:04.439 --> 01:33:09.479 How are you going to survive in the troubles and strife that will come in 1099 01:33:09.520 --> 01:33:13.520 the real world in your life. You're over here crying about mean on the 1100 01:33:13.560 --> 01:33:23.640 internet. Unbelievable. What's up, dude? Hey, Jake. So I've 1101 01:33:23.800 --> 01:33:29.520 grown up Protestant, and that's pretty much how I've raised my children, currently 1102 01:33:29.560 --> 01:33:33.079 attending a Baptist church, and just you know, out of ignorance, we 1103 01:33:33.239 --> 01:33:39.439 honestly just did not really understand the Orthodox Church growing up. Never really heard 1104 01:33:39.520 --> 01:33:42.840 much about it. You know, I have heard of different denominations conflicts, 1105 01:33:42.880 --> 01:33:49.560 obviously, but so we're really new to Orthodoxy and we've attended a couple of 1106 01:33:49.680 --> 01:34:00.199 liturgies, we've attended a few vespers and just trying to understand better and you 1107 01:34:00.319 --> 01:34:05.199 know, search out the truth. And one of the questions that both of 1108 01:34:05.279 --> 01:34:10.640 my kids have I call them kids, but they're both in college different colleges 1109 01:34:11.520 --> 01:34:23.359 is in regards to Second Thessalonians when it talks about like keeping away from brothers 1110 01:34:23.479 --> 01:34:28.359 who aren't following the tradition. So one of the issues that they have is 1111 01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:35.319 they're both very active in helping out the poor, in spreading the gospel, 1112 01:34:35.680 --> 01:34:42.520 obviously the way we've grown up teaching it not the Orthodox way, and they've 1113 01:34:42.600 --> 01:34:46.680 both made attempts to seek out Orthodox churches. One of them doesn't have an 1114 01:34:46.760 --> 01:34:51.239 Orthodox church really anywhere near their school. The other one does have an Orthodox 1115 01:34:51.359 --> 01:34:59.119 church. But the complaint I get is they don't really seem to be very 1116 01:34:59.199 --> 01:35:06.159 active in helping they don't seem very active in spreading their beliefs. But so 1117 01:35:06.319 --> 01:35:10.600 it's like, well, if I inquire about Orthodoxy, I know wouldn't be 1118 01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:15.960 a part of that, then would it be wrong for me to continue helping 1119 01:35:15.520 --> 01:35:23.199 the poor or preaching the gospel with our previous understanding. So it's like, 1120 01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:26.720 well, just find a good church. I mean if that church sucks that, 1121 01:35:26.920 --> 01:35:28.960 well, how do I continue to serve God? I want to do 1122 01:35:29.079 --> 01:35:31.640 things the right way. Well, yeah, so I would say I would 1123 01:35:31.640 --> 01:35:35.600 say, find a good Orthodox church and that might take a while, but 1124 01:35:36.159 --> 01:35:48.560 I would not say that you need to keep preaching Protestantism. Namana namana. 1125 01:35:49.159 --> 01:35:54.560 By the way, to the guys talking smack, Reba Chrisostom, why don't 1126 01:35:54.560 --> 01:35:57.760 you just come into the Twitter space and debate, dude instead of trying to 1127 01:35:57.880 --> 01:36:01.239 argue with me over one dollars super chats. Just come to bate, man. 1128 01:36:01.399 --> 01:36:03.840 That's what the whole purpose of this is that you can come into Twitter 1129 01:36:03.920 --> 01:36:08.680 space. And they're saying that you can come in Twitter spaces now from laptop 1130 01:36:08.760 --> 01:36:11.079 or PC, which you should used to not be able to do, which, 1131 01:36:11.119 --> 01:36:13.680 by the way, means that that woman was completely lying when she was 1132 01:36:13.720 --> 01:36:15.920 like, I'll tried to talk and you wouldn't let me talk. You didn't 1133 01:36:15.960 --> 01:36:20.000 try to talk, you never popped up in the request to speak. Just 1134 01:36:20.199 --> 01:36:27.920 completely ridiculous. Probably was actually being straight up wine mom. Right. I 1135 01:36:28.000 --> 01:36:30.720 think a lot of people are just drunk on Twitter, just talk just saying 1136 01:36:30.800 --> 01:36:34.119 nonsense. Right, we're straight up Twitter. A lot of Twitter is the 1137 01:36:36.159 --> 01:36:42.079 phronsia verse. Right, we're over here with some some Zimfidel. We're over 1138 01:36:42.119 --> 01:36:57.720 here with some moscato. Right, go ahead, dude, Oh my bad, 1139 01:36:57.760 --> 01:37:01.319 I thought you were on here. Go ahead, and the munge and 1140 01:37:01.600 --> 01:37:09.359 whatever you had your box wine this morning? Did you get a Virginia slam? 1141 01:37:11.079 --> 01:37:15.079 Did you put a Virginia slam in your mouth? Did you get divorce 1142 01:37:15.159 --> 01:37:19.680 today? I'm gonna get divorced. I'm gonna get a bag of bag of 1143 01:37:19.800 --> 01:37:26.439 Virginia slams at a box wine and I'm gonna go celebrate after a couple of 1144 01:37:26.520 --> 01:37:30.199 zing acts because I owned this mo follow on Twitter. That's what she's doing 1145 01:37:30.319 --> 01:37:34.079 right now. I owned this foleo on Twitter. I'm over here at the 1146 01:37:34.199 --> 01:37:39.520 dinner because I'm a dinner whiteress. You want some on tighter todds, y'all 1147 01:37:39.560 --> 01:37:43.079 need to come look at this mofoe I just owned on Twitter. He didn't 1148 01:37:43.119 --> 01:37:47.000 even reply. That's what we're dealing with. This is the people that want 1149 01:37:47.000 --> 01:37:49.199 to debate over here now. I mean, it's just total clown land. 1150 01:37:49.960 --> 01:37:59.119 We've entered into the clown verse. Bro. I'm adding you as a speaker, 1151 01:38:02.560 --> 01:38:12.199 But Joe box Wine da let out box Wine then ump ump before ninety 1152 01:38:12.199 --> 01:38:17.079 four talking smack in the Twitter, come to debate. I think the internet. 1153 01:38:17.079 --> 01:38:21.880 The Internet just produces like a giant world of cowards that just like sit 1154 01:38:23.039 --> 01:38:28.880 there saying nonsense and won't ever actually have their ideas challenge. Well, I'm 1155 01:38:28.880 --> 01:38:31.439 sorry, namund jum whatever, like you can't connect every time you try to 1156 01:38:31.439 --> 01:38:47.119 connect to another a wolf. Oh do wolves drink box wine? Box beer? 1157 01:38:47.920 --> 01:38:51.359 Nice, that's what I'm talking about, box beer baby. Yeah, 1158 01:38:53.159 --> 01:38:56.520 it's great to talk to you. I just wanted to debate a little bit 1159 01:38:56.560 --> 01:39:00.399 about protesism, about some stuff I like about it. The simplicity of the 1160 01:39:00.560 --> 01:39:05.159 Gospel. It's really unique where you know, you believe in your heart, 1161 01:39:05.279 --> 01:39:10.880 you confess with your tongue, and it seems like that that carries a lot 1162 01:39:10.960 --> 01:39:13.880 of weight. But yet at the same time, it doesn't seem like it 1163 01:39:14.039 --> 01:39:23.000 does over time. So what would you say about that? Well, I 1164 01:39:23.079 --> 01:39:26.479 mean, confessing with your mouth does not mean that that's all you do. 1165 01:39:26.680 --> 01:39:29.520 I mean you'll notice that you know the rest of the New Testament. For 1166 01:39:29.600 --> 01:39:32.000 example, you're told to be baptized, you're told to go to church to 1167 01:39:32.159 --> 01:39:35.479 pray, right, do not forsake the assembling, as Paul says, So 1168 01:39:35.960 --> 01:39:42.920 why would we think that you know? Because it says that. So here's 1169 01:39:42.960 --> 01:39:47.199 this guy saying this is what people do. Will you not ever cover Revolt 1170 01:39:47.239 --> 01:39:50.239 against the Water Modern World by Evela. I mean I've read evela, why 1171 01:39:50.279 --> 01:39:54.560 are you a monolingual smooth brain? Yeah, I just stopped. I'm not 1172 01:39:54.600 --> 01:39:56.359 going to answer you, dude. If you're not going to come have a 1173 01:39:56.479 --> 01:39:59.039 question, you're not here to actually debate. You're just trying to control. 1174 01:39:59.479 --> 01:40:02.039 So I will absolutely refund your super chats and i'll block you as well. 1175 01:40:02.119 --> 01:40:05.720 So good job, dude. Um yeah, So, I mean that's a 1176 01:40:05.760 --> 01:40:10.119 good question. But I would just say that, you know, you can't 1177 01:40:10.159 --> 01:40:15.640 reduce Christianity to these minimalistic one liners or the Romans road all this kind of 1178 01:40:15.680 --> 01:40:20.359 stuff. Um, It's it's obviously a lifestyle, right, That's why an 1179 01:40:20.439 --> 01:40:25.560 Orthodoxy you go through one to three years of catechumenet. It's not a thing 1180 01:40:25.640 --> 01:40:30.039 where you, um, you know, just confess one thing verbally like and 1181 01:40:30.159 --> 01:40:38.159 this is part of the problem with Protestantism. Sure, I think your spot 1182 01:40:38.239 --> 01:40:43.960 on with saying this a critique of this minimalist approach. Um. I would 1183 01:40:43.960 --> 01:40:48.079 add too, it is important task ourselves. What does it mean to believe 1184 01:40:48.279 --> 01:40:55.920 in and confess? Um? Typically a Protestant we'll just have that as the 1185 01:40:55.960 --> 01:41:04.920 worst. But believe in doesn't mean minimalistic, reductive. I believe Jesus is 1186 01:41:05.119 --> 01:41:09.600 the son of God? Is that it what a son of God mean? 1187 01:41:09.680 --> 01:41:15.119 And we we've talked about this too, and even my debate with Matt Slick 1188 01:41:16.039 --> 01:41:25.920 in an analogous way to epistemic holism. All these terms refer to other terms. 1189 01:41:27.399 --> 01:41:31.800 So who is who is Christ? What does it mean to believe? 1190 01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:36.399 And it's the entire system. You can't just simply pick and choose and then 1191 01:41:36.479 --> 01:41:40.479 say, well, I believe. And what you'll notice is if you ask 1192 01:41:40.560 --> 01:41:45.079 the Protestant, well, what's the minimum that I have to believe him of 1193 01:41:45.399 --> 01:41:46.960 Jesus is the son of God? What what does that mean? That he's 1194 01:41:47.039 --> 01:41:50.680 God? He's And then they start adding more and more stuff. You know, 1195 01:41:51.600 --> 01:42:00.479 what you'll find is that these are unjustified and arbitrary assumptions from from their 1196 01:42:00.560 --> 01:42:04.399 worldview. I mean, who determines how many of these things do you need? 1197 01:42:05.880 --> 01:42:14.319 Do you need five? The Mormons are out, Um they believe they 1198 01:42:14.439 --> 01:42:16.520 am Christ? No? Not in the same way. Um, well do 1199 01:42:16.640 --> 01:42:19.840 you have to believe us two natures? Do you have to believe that? 1200 01:42:19.960 --> 01:42:26.039 You see? All these things actually matter? So to say believe in isn't 1201 01:42:26.520 --> 01:42:30.079 to believe in the entirety of his revelation. I think that's an important point 1202 01:42:30.319 --> 01:42:38.720 to bring out. And also um scripture itself teaches against the persepcuity. Right, 1203 01:42:38.800 --> 01:42:45.039 So, Paul, many of these things are difficult to understand and those 1204 01:42:45.640 --> 01:42:56.119 twisted to their own destruction. So it also reveals to an unfounded, unjustified 1205 01:42:56.479 --> 01:43:01.359 assumption that God wanted to give us, that that's the way God was actually 1206 01:43:01.840 --> 01:43:05.560 required us to live, is to give us just a simple kind of instruction 1207 01:43:05.680 --> 01:43:10.399 set um, and you just read it and and that's all that's required. 1208 01:43:10.960 --> 01:43:15.560 Whereas Jay, you were pointing out, it's a life. It's an entire 1209 01:43:15.680 --> 01:43:17.000 life. You don't get the pick and choose. It's not a system, 1210 01:43:17.760 --> 01:43:21.239 um, and it's certainly not. Let's strip it down to the bare minimum 1211 01:43:21.279 --> 01:43:27.319 propositions and then I just descend to it and then I'm in, Yeah, 1212 01:43:27.439 --> 01:43:42.600 good points. All right, let's move on to uhnmanda. I'm sorry, 1213 01:43:42.680 --> 01:43:46.279 dude, you're you're not connecting. So hello, there we go. Can 1214 01:43:46.359 --> 01:43:50.600 you hear me? Yeah? Go ahead, I don't well, I do 1215 01:43:50.880 --> 01:43:57.039 want to and throw further, and then that's fine. If I am to 1216 01:43:57.199 --> 01:44:00.000 speak, I will. It's so well. I wanted to ask you, 1217 01:44:00.319 --> 01:44:08.399 Jay, a couple of questions. First, I spoke with some eighties materialist 1218 01:44:08.640 --> 01:44:15.079 dude. And I brought up in a way in my in my kind of 1219 01:44:15.800 --> 01:44:21.520 of understanding, something like tag and and when I explained it is a coherent 1220 01:44:23.319 --> 01:44:29.479 it is coherentism and that kind of position, he just replied, when anything 1221 01:44:29.640 --> 01:44:38.000 can anything can be set up in a coherent way. So he said, 1222 01:44:38.239 --> 01:44:42.560 a universe could explain itself as God. Well, now, first of all, 1223 01:44:42.760 --> 01:44:45.199 no, it's first of all, it's not true that anything can be 1224 01:44:45.319 --> 01:44:48.199 set up in a coherent way. Second, the argument is not just that 1225 01:44:48.479 --> 01:44:54.119 is true because there's coherence, because you could conceivably create a conceptual system that 1226 01:44:54.319 --> 01:45:00.359 is internally consistent and coherent but has no relation to the external world. So 1227 01:45:00.439 --> 01:45:05.520 it's a fundamental misunderstanding that the transit argument is not for an abstract conceptual consistent 1228 01:45:05.600 --> 01:45:10.560 system like some sort of big math problem. It's an argument for a worldview 1229 01:45:11.159 --> 01:45:18.880 very different. Yeah. Yeah, Bonjeur talks about this too. We first 1230 01:45:18.880 --> 01:45:25.359 of all, it's important to realize that our position isn't simply coherentism, right, 1231 01:45:25.520 --> 01:45:29.840 But when Bonjeur was talking about coherentism, he said, there's a misunderstanding. 1232 01:45:29.920 --> 01:45:33.199 It doesn't mean that the systems consistent. For example, you could have 1233 01:45:33.399 --> 01:45:43.760 propositions the tree is green and squares have four sides. There you know, 1234 01:45:45.239 --> 01:45:48.520 well, people misunderstand what coherentism is in the first place, and what Bonjeur 1235 01:45:49.119 --> 01:45:54.880 and his epistemology book said, what it doesn't mean is that things can be 1236 01:45:55.000 --> 01:45:59.840 consistent. For example, you could have the proposition the tree is green and 1237 01:46:00.159 --> 01:46:04.680 a square has four sides. That's not what actual coherentism is. The idea 1238 01:46:04.800 --> 01:46:11.199 is that there's actually logical inference. There's no logical inference to the truth from 1239 01:46:11.359 --> 01:46:15.359 the tree is green, that therefore squares have four sides. So first things 1240 01:46:15.399 --> 01:46:19.880 we need to get straight is what is even meant by coherentism is that all 1241 01:46:19.960 --> 01:46:28.279 the propositions not only are logically consistent, but coherence means that they can be 1242 01:46:28.520 --> 01:46:33.239 inferred from all the other propositions. Yeah, that eliminates a lot of stuff 1243 01:46:33.359 --> 01:46:36.399 right there. And as Jay said, even if you get to that, 1244 01:46:38.239 --> 01:46:42.119 if you can conceive, we construct something like that, you still have the 1245 01:46:42.279 --> 01:46:45.319 problem how does that system serve to be a justification? How does it even 1246 01:46:45.399 --> 01:46:49.640 map onto the world. There's further problems than just simply oh, I created 1247 01:46:51.000 --> 01:46:57.680 a coherent system in which every proposition of the system can be derived or inferred 1248 01:46:57.800 --> 01:47:02.600 from all the other propositions. So if I got you correctly, it needs 1249 01:47:02.720 --> 01:47:11.399 to have explainments every power also to the world or what what do you mean? 1250 01:47:11.560 --> 01:47:14.000 Yeah, just let read the russ Manion papers. So I'm not trying 1251 01:47:14.000 --> 01:47:16.199 to be read. But we're gonna have to rush through some of these because 1252 01:47:16.239 --> 01:47:20.560 they got a meeting. I have to go to here in a little bit. 1253 01:47:20.800 --> 01:47:26.880 Um. So, but we have another caller here, Daniel. I'll 1254 01:47:26.920 --> 01:47:30.439 go to Daniel BMX nineteen sixty six five dollars. Can you leave up your 1255 01:47:30.479 --> 01:47:34.079 intros longer? Um? I mean they're pretty long? And then every all 1256 01:47:34.079 --> 01:47:38.359 the boomers and people complain, who are your intros solo on? Because they 1257 01:47:38.399 --> 01:47:42.399 don't know what a live stream is theosi's Pilgrim ten dollars, Cope and seeth 1258 01:47:42.760 --> 01:47:46.239 afn Boomers, You can't. I think you mean ancient faith radio. You 1259 01:47:46.319 --> 01:47:49.920 guys can have patcha Mama Francis and we will keep Jay shout out to diet 1260 01:47:50.000 --> 01:47:56.000 So to light to Mathias three dollars. I know evil has no autological reality 1261 01:47:56.039 --> 01:47:59.239 as a privation, but how do we think of the devil? The devil's 1262 01:47:59.279 --> 01:48:02.840 nature is good, So I mean this is you know, standard Orthodox theology 1263 01:48:02.880 --> 01:48:06.399 can read the cabind oceans. The nature of the devil is good even still, 1264 01:48:06.800 --> 01:48:12.159 but he misuses his nature and continually sort of it's confirmed in the perpetual 1265 01:48:12.199 --> 01:48:15.359 willing of evil. Sounds like he is the embodiment of evil. No, 1266 01:48:15.640 --> 01:48:21.520 he is the angelic nature is even still good to see you have his free 1267 01:48:21.600 --> 01:48:26.920 will the source of evil. Um, you could say it's yeah, it's 1268 01:48:27.079 --> 01:48:30.760 it's the source, but it doesn't make evil real in the sense of having 1269 01:48:30.840 --> 01:48:33.720 ontological existence. Did God know what Satan would choose? Yes? God is 1270 01:48:33.800 --> 01:48:39.520 omniscient. Rigavitch five dollars. I love all the content in my block because 1271 01:48:39.520 --> 01:48:42.680 everybody's ignoring me in the chat um. I don't know, so I don't 1272 01:48:42.760 --> 01:48:45.600 usually moderate my chat because I don't have time on YouTube, so I don't 1273 01:48:45.640 --> 01:48:50.039 know if somebody booted you or muted you for some reason. Thank you for 1274 01:48:50.119 --> 01:48:55.000 your content, Chris. I'm hope to be half as knowledgeable on these topics 1275 01:48:55.279 --> 01:48:57.760 and how the world has run one day. God bless you and your family. 1276 01:48:57.840 --> 01:48:59.920 Chris from Ireland. Thank you so much, Chris. Really cool comment. 1277 01:49:00.079 --> 01:49:03.239 Eric Samuel twenty sixteen, Jay, I'm interested in orthodoxy makes some part 1278 01:49:03.279 --> 01:49:06.359 to your work. I'm going to be attending a couple of Orthodox churches in 1279 01:49:06.359 --> 01:49:09.239 the next week. So thank you for what you do. Hey, thank 1280 01:49:09.239 --> 01:49:13.800 you Samuel. Hopefully you find a good solid parish Canatic five dollars. I 1281 01:49:13.920 --> 01:49:18.560 get that ADS thinks that distinctions equate to division, but what is their reasoning? 1282 01:49:19.840 --> 01:49:23.680 Twofold? Most of the time they take it as a self evident principle 1283 01:49:23.760 --> 01:49:30.960 from natural philosophy or from just citing Aristotle or the Hellenic philosophers. Then they'll 1284 01:49:30.000 --> 01:49:33.800 say that it has to be this way for some scholastic rational reason, and 1285 01:49:33.880 --> 01:49:40.319 then they'll cite just Roman Catholic dogma and Aquinas or Peter Lombard's identity thesis. 1286 01:49:43.840 --> 01:49:47.239 Is it because potentiality and movement would imply final cause and therefore in completion. 1287 01:49:47.359 --> 01:49:50.439 Yeah, they think that if you introduce any potentiality at all, that it 1288 01:49:50.520 --> 01:49:54.640 means that God's changeable, has parts and as a creature. But if you 1289 01:49:54.760 --> 01:50:01.840 look at Bradshaw's work and the other thess PhD theses we've covered, like the 1290 01:50:01.920 --> 01:50:08.479 Cappadocians on simplicity thesis, and then it points out that originally when the debate 1291 01:50:08.560 --> 01:50:13.359 was happening with the Cappadocians, divine simplicity was not being argued from the vantage 1292 01:50:13.439 --> 01:50:16.279 point of reducing the attributes to the essence. It was primarily in first and 1293 01:50:16.319 --> 01:50:20.920 foremost a question of is God acted on or does he act upon? And 1294 01:50:21.079 --> 01:50:25.840 so ultimately God is simple, meaning that his essence is not acted upon, 1295 01:50:26.000 --> 01:50:29.479 It's not changed or affected by creatures. But even still, there is a 1296 01:50:29.560 --> 01:50:32.359 reality of God having a reciprocal relationship with men, and Bradshaw is a great 1297 01:50:32.359 --> 01:50:38.119 paper on that showing that the tomistic doctrine of God would basically make prayer pointless 1298 01:50:38.479 --> 01:50:42.680 because God doesn't have a direct relation. There's no reciprocity between when you pray 1299 01:50:43.279 --> 01:50:47.880 God acting according to your prayers. Right ads precludes that, as well as 1300 01:50:47.960 --> 01:50:53.319 things like the incarnation Stephen Harding ten dollars Thank you Jay, Thank you Stephen. 1301 01:50:53.840 --> 01:50:57.840 So did the guy that sent two super chats araba, Chrisolsom being a 1302 01:50:57.920 --> 01:51:03.760 douchebag calling me a monolingual smooth brain. How are you grasping Aristotle without knowing 1303 01:51:03.840 --> 01:51:09.720 Greek? So, first of all, I don't think that it's absolutely necessary 1304 01:51:09.800 --> 01:51:14.359 to understand the philosophers. To know every philosopher's native language, it would be 1305 01:51:14.399 --> 01:51:16.840 a great skill. I do think that Linguistics are a great tool and skill 1306 01:51:16.880 --> 01:51:21.359 to have, but it's kind of like the biblical texts. How many biblical 1307 01:51:21.479 --> 01:51:28.359 scholars know Biblical Greek and Hebrew and come to tarted conclusions and are idiots a 1308 01:51:28.520 --> 01:51:32.079 lot. So linguistics is a great skill, but it doesn't necessarily grant you 1309 01:51:32.199 --> 01:51:38.680 reading comprehension or depth of understanding and the nuance that you need to be able 1310 01:51:38.720 --> 01:51:45.119 to do metaphysics. Can you honestly say that you know Aristotle? I don't 1311 01:51:45.159 --> 01:51:47.159 claim to be an expert on Arisotle, so I don't know where you're getting 1312 01:51:47.199 --> 01:51:49.920 the idea that I never claimed to be an expert. I said the other 1313 01:51:50.000 --> 01:51:55.319 day that I would defer to Tim Gordon or father Deacon Ananias on Aristotle, 1314 01:51:55.439 --> 01:51:58.439 So I don't know where you get that. I think I'm an Aerosotle expert. 1315 01:51:59.560 --> 01:52:03.359 You think you're more intelligent than Aristotle? Do you really think that disagreeing 1316 01:52:03.439 --> 01:52:09.520 with somebody or critiquing somebody necessitates or means that you think that you're more intelligent 1317 01:52:09.560 --> 01:52:13.000 than them? I mean, that is almost so dumb of an argument I 1318 01:52:13.000 --> 01:52:15.119 don't even want to reply to it. Orthodox dude. One dollar is gender 1319 01:52:15.199 --> 01:52:19.960 a part of hypostasis? Or nature gender would be. I would say probably 1320 01:52:20.039 --> 01:52:23.680 both. I mean, I don't think we ever lose our I will never 1321 01:52:23.760 --> 01:52:27.680 cease to be a man in the escaton, and you will never cease to 1322 01:52:27.720 --> 01:52:30.520 be a Christ, never cease to be a man, or have his biological 1323 01:52:30.680 --> 01:52:35.960 or human nature changed. So I would say both. Does the gender issues 1324 01:52:36.039 --> 01:52:41.720 relate to a confusion of nature in person? It might have associations with that. 1325 01:52:42.359 --> 01:52:45.880 Some of the people who promote it from Fordom try to go to neo 1326 01:52:45.960 --> 01:52:50.920 platonic arguments that the fall into male and female was something that put us into 1327 01:52:50.960 --> 01:52:55.199 a lesser state of reality. And I think Maximus the Confessor is actually wrong 1328 01:52:55.239 --> 01:52:57.840 on this point because he does kind of repeat the neo platonic position. So 1329 01:52:58.920 --> 01:53:01.680 it may relate to that at times, But I don't think that the ultimate 1330 01:53:01.800 --> 01:53:10.119 root of today's transhumanous weirdos are thinking about confusing nature in person. I don't 1331 01:53:10.159 --> 01:53:15.399 even think they're those concepts are not even remotely in their mind. So God, 1332 01:53:15.479 --> 01:53:18.319 the guy asked me again, do you think you're smarter than air assault? 1333 01:53:18.880 --> 01:53:24.279 Again? This is the fact that I mean you would I could find 1334 01:53:24.359 --> 01:53:29.359 any person that's a renowned figure that you disagree with and would that mean that 1335 01:53:29.439 --> 01:53:31.000 you think you're smarter than them. I mean, it's just such a ridiculous 1336 01:53:31.079 --> 01:53:34.199 question. I usha ten dollars. Thank you so much, BMX ten dollars, 1337 01:53:34.239 --> 01:53:36.960 Thank you so much, BMX ninety six six again for ten dollars. 1338 01:53:38.039 --> 01:53:44.199 Hello, father Deacon and Ias bitescribe five. How do you harmonize works with 1339 01:53:44.960 --> 01:53:48.920 Grace and Ephesians? Precisely because both of those things are necessary? Paul? 1340 01:53:49.159 --> 01:53:54.039 Even Paul says, the very guy that wrote Ephesian says that the faith that 1341 01:53:54.119 --> 01:53:58.000 saves you is the one that works through love. Okay, so he's saying 1342 01:53:58.039 --> 01:54:01.199 the same thing that James says. It's a lot of times Protestants that presuppose, 1343 01:54:01.319 --> 01:54:08.600 oh Ephesians must mean that there's no willing, no acting, no working 1344 01:54:08.680 --> 01:54:15.640 at all involved in justification. Baptism is justification because it's generations regeneration and that's 1345 01:54:15.680 --> 01:54:19.159 a work. So, um, I'm gonna have to go pretty soon, 1346 01:54:19.279 --> 01:54:28.239 Daniel, what's up? I'm leaving the box one up there because she never 1347 01:54:28.359 --> 01:54:34.119 came with all of her smack talking day and then, um, what do 1348 01:54:34.159 --> 01:54:40.880 you think of a Saint Francis of assu pre less delusion? Crazy? Just 1349 01:54:41.079 --> 01:54:47.520 train it up crazy? Yeah, all right, um, so is that 1350 01:54:47.800 --> 01:54:51.800 do you disagree or what? Well? Okay, well I'm not trying to 1351 01:54:51.800 --> 01:54:57.239 be rere but today this this was Disagreements Day. So if you don't disagree, 1352 01:54:57.359 --> 01:55:00.720 then uh, I'm not trying to be read to you. Rhett Acardo, 1353 01:55:10.159 --> 01:55:13.479 who has worse hair? My hair is gorgeous, dude, it's going 1354 01:55:13.520 --> 01:55:16.960 full of McConaughey. It's gonna be all the way down my back. So 1355 01:55:17.359 --> 01:55:23.000 you can chew on that. Zachary who hates my hair, My hair is 1356 01:55:23.479 --> 01:55:26.720 hurt. By the way, you're a victor. You're abusing me in victim, 1357 01:55:26.760 --> 01:55:29.399 I'm a victim. I'm a victim. He's abusing me. He doesn't 1358 01:55:29.479 --> 01:55:32.479 like my hair. Please? Can I tattle on him? Can I tattle 1359 01:55:32.560 --> 01:55:34.800 him on him? To the Internet authorities? This man is abusing me. 1360 01:55:34.840 --> 01:55:38.640 He may put on my hair. I'm hurt. Signing to retire from the 1361 01:55:38.640 --> 01:55:45.600 internet, the toxic abusive bullying going on in the internet. Bro, are 1362 01:55:45.640 --> 01:55:54.479 you gonna talk or what? Rhett? I'm mute. We'll have a T 1363 01:55:54.600 --> 01:55:57.439 shirt that says I'm mute. Bro, I'm mute. Dude. All right, 1364 01:55:57.600 --> 01:56:00.479 he's not gonna answer. So and you'll notice that the woman never did 1365 01:56:00.560 --> 01:56:15.640 call in after all of her jibber driver. So here's what she said when 1366 01:56:15.720 --> 01:56:21.800 she never came up. Jadar is a controlling Christian know it all. Won't 1367 01:56:21.880 --> 01:56:27.199 even unmike, so she doesn't even know English, like half her what she 1368 01:56:27.199 --> 01:56:31.319 say doesn't even make sense, unmike, un mute. She never requested to 1369 01:56:31.359 --> 01:56:39.840 speak again, wine mom. Everybody, thank you for today if you would 1370 01:56:39.880 --> 01:56:42.319 subscribe. Also remember to go to chalk dot com. That is the show 1371 01:56:42.399 --> 01:56:48.399 sponsor, boost your testa ostroone with the ton Cat Elite. That's my favorite 1372 01:56:48.479 --> 01:56:53.279 user Probma called j fift to get fifty percent off to become a mean person 1373 01:56:53.399 --> 01:56:57.319 like me. It's so mean, so mean, So I just keep making 1374 01:56:57.399 --> 01:57:00.399 fun of the people that do this stuff because it's also ridiculous, right, 1375 01:57:00.479 --> 01:57:04.439 I mean, there's still I mean, they'll never stop whining, right Like 1376 01:57:04.640 --> 01:57:08.720 we'll be ten years down the road and the Roman Colilists are going to be 1377 01:57:08.800 --> 01:57:12.920 like, oh he's mean. So you see, I don't have to listen 1378 01:57:13.039 --> 01:57:16.760 because and like, what's actually mean? Oh you met a joke Aboudy Barrow 1379 01:57:16.880 --> 01:57:19.479 five years ago? Okay, Well then I guess if that's mean, I'll 1380 01:57:19.520 --> 01:57:23.640 just own up to and be mean so, I mean, this is ridiculous. 1381 01:57:24.760 --> 01:57:28.720 They're just cowards, man, They're cowards, and they won't interact with 1382 01:57:28.840 --> 01:57:32.880 people that will call them on the bs, just like that guy today who 1383 01:57:33.119 --> 01:57:36.239 talked crap all day about orthodox And by the way, the other guy wouldn't 1384 01:57:36.279 --> 01:57:42.840 debate either, so they all declined. And when they decline, they typically 1385 01:57:42.920 --> 01:57:49.319 say he's mean, pure soy, pure, soy. How come Tim Gordon 1386 01:57:50.960 --> 01:57:57.239 is gonna come to an in person debate and doesn't have any problem and doesn't 1387 01:57:57.279 --> 01:58:00.039 think I'm mean. Maybe he doesn't think I'm mean, but he doesn't bother 1388 01:58:00.199 --> 01:58:06.399 him mean. I'm starting to think I heard a whistleblower, a whistleblower from 1389 01:58:06.439 --> 01:58:14.399 Twitter saying that the Internet and social media is going to have to be shut 1390 01:58:14.520 --> 01:58:17.760 down and clamped down quote unquote because of bullying and people are mean. I'm 1391 01:58:17.760 --> 01:58:23.319 not joking, So I'm starting to think that mean is this is a new 1392 01:58:23.399 --> 01:58:28.319 buzzword that they're going to try to use to actually clamp down again, because 1393 01:58:28.319 --> 01:58:34.159 I'm seeing it everywhere and it's like mean and subjective. I mean, it 1394 01:58:34.279 --> 01:58:40.079 might, it might in some cases be extreme and not subjective, but I 1395 01:58:40.159 --> 01:58:45.439 mean a joke rhetoric laughing to an impression I mean, is that bullying and 1396 01:58:45.560 --> 01:58:48.439 mean and abusive. Now you understand, all of this is in the public 1397 01:58:48.520 --> 01:58:53.960 sphere, so a lot of these people think, well, I want to 1398 01:58:54.000 --> 01:58:56.960 say what I want. I don't want any repercussions for what I say. 1399 01:58:57.520 --> 01:59:00.880 And you'll notice that they'll say things about me all the time, and if 1400 01:59:00.960 --> 01:59:05.000 I reply, they say I'm bad for replying. Why are you attacking the 1401 01:59:05.119 --> 01:59:10.359 priests? Why are you attacking people? These people talk about me almost on 1402 01:59:10.479 --> 01:59:16.880 a daily basis, so I can reply to them. Everybody, have a 1403 01:59:16.880 --> 01:59:17.199 good night.