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Why the apostle Paul is a scoundrel? Part two. If you think that

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slavery was just the ways of the
Old Testament, I have bad news for

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you. In Titus two nine through
ten, he writes teach slaves to be

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subject to their masters and everything,
and to try to please them, not

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to talk back to them, not
to steal from them, but to show

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them they can be fully trusted,
so that in every way they will make

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the teaching about God our Savior attractive. Slavery is unequivocally and reprehensible and morally

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indefensible. It represents a gross violation
of basic human rights and dignity, perpetuating

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a system of exploitation and dehumanization.
The practice entails the forced subjugation of individuals,

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stripping them of their autonomy, freedom, and agency. Slavery fosters a

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culture of inequality, justice, and
cruelty, denying people the right to live

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their lives with dignity and pursue their
aspirations. So before you, yes,

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you call in and say who are
you to decide what's moral? I can

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assure you I am more moral than
your God or his spokesman, And you

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can trust me because I have a
mustache. Do you disagree? Give us

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a call because the show is about
to begin. Hello, Hello, everybody,

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welcome back to talk. He then
I am your host day objectively Dan

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joining me. I think that was
Sidney's dad. It was, Yeah,

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your dad did a great job of
the intro. They said slavery rivers his

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justice instead of injustice, which is
you should have said injustice. I'm so

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sorry. That's okay. I messed
up the opening intro so bad last time.

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My truth wanted. I have no
room to talk. But anyway,

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Sidney Davis Junior Junior is joining me
today. Sidney, what's what's what's going

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on? What's happening other than my
dad ruining the cold open? No,

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not much is going on here.
We do need we should probably rehearse the

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cold open before we actually do it, because I don't know we don't actually

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rehearse at all for me. Well, I mean that what that makes it

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a cold open? Right? Like, you're right, It wouldn't make it

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as cold, it'd be a hot
it'd be yeah, more of a hot

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open. And we want to be
a cold open. Right. That was

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an ice cold ice. You're right, You're you're right, folks. Today

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is February the eleventh, twenty twenty
four. And this is Talking Even.

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This is a product of the Atheist
Community of Austin, a five to oh

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one C three nonprofit organization dedicated to
the promotion of atheism, critical thinking,

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secular humanism, and the separation of
religion and government. And what you should

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know is that Talk Even is a
live call in show and we have open

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lines right now, So get your
calls in at five to one two nine

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nine two four two or from your
computer at tiny dot c c slash call

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thh City. I've been sick a
little bit this week, but I'm good

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now. I took some stuff before
we're doing today, but I didn't get

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to do trith one this week.
I didn't do some of my other stuff.

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But yesterday I was going to go
to a There is a witch market

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in Austin and uh over two hundred
vendors. We're gonna be at this thing

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selling witches or not selling which is
selling. I guess potions, eyes of

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newts and probably like its over expensive
soaps is what I imagine a lot of

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the product is. I actually don't
know what they sell at a witch's market,

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but I wanted to check it out, but it got canceled due to

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inclement weather. What kind of inclement
weather did you guys have? It was

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a little stormy yesterday. I mean, it wasn't too bad, but it

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does make you wonder. And I'm
not a witch. I'm not in the

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community. But isn't there like a
spell for that? Like can't you stop?

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Or is that more druid territory?
But I mean, I don't mean

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to speak for witches, but I
believe witches also have days where they're like,

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you know, I just not today, you know what I mean?

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Like even witches are like the vibe
is off, and it's like you could

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cancel the storm, or you could
be like, you know what, we

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can do this another time. I'm
just a little witch vended out because I

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mean, I imagine that's a lot
of like I don't know, gluten free

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scones and stuff to make, and
maybe they just maybe they just wanted to

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do it a different time. Hey, First of all, everyone can enjoy

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a gluten freeze going. And I'm
not trying to hate I I we were

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just reading a great article about intersectional
feminism within the witch communities and stuff,

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and that's great. A lot of
them are like super active this stuff.

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I just I'm interested in the intersection
between witchcraft and capitalism. I just don't

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know because I see this stuff on
TikTok where it's like leave leave this,

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leave this flower mixture out under the
full moon to charge, Like I saw

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that one time, and I'm just
like, what does this even mean?

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What is happening here? I mean, but did you try it? Well,

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no, but you tried it,
you may have learned. I guess

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you're right. There's just I have
a lot of questions. That's me too,

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but I'm not a part. Can
you tell the story that you were

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telling me, which is that you
hung out at a witches you were with

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a witch's coven? Oh? Yes, I did not. Yes, Okay,

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So I lived in Chicago before I
lived here in Nashville. I mean

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in Austin. I definitely live in
Austin. I'm not in Nashville. And

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at like six months after living in
this building and just seeing weird stuff all

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the time, like I could go
into great detail about weird stuff that I

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saw, I finally asked my neighbor, who at the time was quite a

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stranger to me. We were not
close, but I had to ask somebody.

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I said, you know, I've
been seeing some weird stuff and I

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got to know if this is normal. And that's when I found out that

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every couple who lived in that building
were witches. They were all witches,

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every single one of them. Every
single one of them had alters and and

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the things they showed me, but
I don't want to incorrectly label the items,

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but they they definitely were active witches. And they told me I did

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not need to be afraid because they
had done the witch version of blessing the

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building and only positive vibes. So
I still moved. Don't get me wrong,

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I still moved. But I'm friends
with some of those people, still

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great people, but I definitely still
got out of there. So that kind

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of makes you water. So like
if a Catholic priest less is a building

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and then a witch blesses it,
does it counteract each other in some way?

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Or are they non interactable? Is
the vibe change? I don't know.

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Again, just I have a lot
of questions. I'm thinking very scientifically

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about it. I don't I don't
know if if that's how the the which

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community sees everything they do, which
is if you're watching this, let us

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know what write in If you think
you know the answer, we'd love to

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hear from you, because that is
a great question. I think. I

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think it is mostly people who participate
in. My understanding is it's participating in

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the ceremony for vibes. It is
just like I'm with a bunch of people

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who feel the same way I do
about it for vibes only. Yeah,

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and it's for vibes, And I
mean that in a very like real way,

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Like I think it's just like I
think that's just how I think it's

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a community activity rather well. I
mean, like, I'm pretty sure there's

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like documentation of the Salem witch trial
happening because the vibes are off. Like

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I'm one hundred percent sure there's a
document out there that says that. Yeah,

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that's definitely what they wrote down.
Yeah, they said, ye'll hear

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ye, hear ye, the vibes
are off. Yeah, we gotta kill

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all the witches. It's very sad. Yeah, it was really sad.

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I don't know if they ever fixed
the vibes, but I hope they did.

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I would hope. I would hope
the vibes have been fixed since.

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However, long ago. That was
a few hundred years now, but maybe

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not actually, so yeah, so
this is a call in show and right

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now we do have some open lines, so please I encourage everybody come call

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in. It's been a minute since
I've been on Sydney New host this time

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number two for you. Yeah,
so happy to be hosting with you.

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So yeah, I I am.
I'm really excited to see what kind of

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calls that we can take together for
talk Heathen's sake. But this is also

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we're competing in our efforts with another
Perhaps how should we put this game at

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which a lot of people people I
think is amazing, That is also a

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bold game. It is very busy, it is very there are lots of

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people checking it out. Yeah,
it synonymous with amazing, is also a

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game, is I think a good
way to put it. So maybe some

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people are watching that instead of us. But yeah, we want to talk

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to you guys, hear what's going
on. If there are any of those

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today, they don't start for a
while. I think several hours. Oh

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yeah, you're right, I don't
think it actually has started yet. This

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is how out of the loop I
am on all matter of sports. I

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really don't yeah, I don't.
If there is a big sports event happening,

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it would happen in the evening around
I believe seven PMS Central. But

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maybe there's pregaming efforts, you know, maybe a different kind of pregame than

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what I'm thinking of. But hey, you know, Sidney, this is

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a show where we have a segment
every week called talk Heathen Timmy, so

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maybe we should talk about that.
Talk he Me is where we ask you

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guys a question and you give us
an answer, and we picked specifically three

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of them which we think are the
best, and we read those out to

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you. So last week we asked
you what would Jesus Do? Which is

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a great one. It's an open
essay, you know, prompt that you

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would see in like school before a
big test or something. So I really

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like this one, What would Jesus
do? Let's read our top three answers.

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Number three come from the nihon Jin
who says WWJD his handholds, which

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is maybe one of the most disgusting
things I've ever had to read on this

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show, but it does give me
pause. So it did bake the list

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this week, and like, don't
I want to say that would be wrong,

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but I don't think so, it's
I think it's definitely wrong. It's

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wrong, but like, actually I
don't know. I'm not I'm not even

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gonna parse that. I'm just gonna
move on and get to with our next

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answer here. Number two comes from
I think it's Leith Crower Wreath Crowther sixty

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eighty six, who says, what
would Jesus do? Probably a sheep?

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Which, come on, come on, guys, come on, that's that's

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I don't know. I mean,
like, I don't know, you don't

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know. I feel like he hung
out with enough people all the time around.

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You're right, Jesus was a sociable
dude. He had at least twelve

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dudes and at least like one lady
a segment of his adult life. Now

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before that, though, who knows, you know that's true. I wasn't

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there. I was not just saying
it could be a thing. Number one

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comes from X million seventeen oh four, who says Jesus would help me remember

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the password to my born hund,
which he seems like a nice guy.

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He seems like a helpful guy who
would have done something like that. That

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is really funny. It's like if
Jesus if you hung around you. If

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you was around today and he hung
around you and he knew the password,

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would he give it to you if
you really need help? Because think about

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this theologically? Okay, does this
intercede on free will on some way?

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If Jesus is holding the password for
you to sin, would he still give

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it to you? Yes, because
he'd want to see what decision you make,

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because it's a free will thing,
right right, Because he'd want to

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see would you use it or would
you not with that power? Would you

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use that power or would you contain
yourself? Exactly? So? I think

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you would. But but also is
giving is giving away account information that's not

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yours? A sin? You might
be he might become in me a sin.

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I think that loving thy neighbor.
I think it's loving thy neighbor.

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It is loving thy neighbor. But
also it's violating property rights, which Jesus

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is a huge fan of, I
think, But I feel like he's more

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into sharing is caring, even if
it comes to a porn account pass.

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Yeah, I think it explicitly breaks
the terms and agreements of pornhub dot com.

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Oh well, see, if it
breaks terms and agreements that you agree

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to, then I don't think Jesus
would do it. Yeah, Jesus upholds

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contract law. Yeah, yeah,
he does very much, so he does.

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Yeah, So then I don't think
you would do it. I think

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he'd be like not man. Sorry, See that gets a little deeper than

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you got to give it credit for. Thanks for the links for the answers

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this week. Guys, you discussing
disgusting people with your disgusting answers, all

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three of those very dirty, but
still appreciate it that you guys give those

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answers. The prompt for this week
is going to be why are people really

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leaving the church? And then it's
really with capital letters really in the script

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here, So answer your best answer
below in the video and we will we'll

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get in the comments below the video. I mean, we'll answer the top

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three answers for next week. But
before we move on here, Sidney,

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why are people really leaving the church? I think a combination of things.

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I think many people leave church to
go scream at a barista immediately after talking

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about how you should treat people with
kindness and respect. I think they leave

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church and then they're like, what
do you mean you've discontinued the unicorn frap.

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Don't make me tell you again.
And then I think other people are

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leaving church because they're like, too
early, Sunday's my one day to sleep

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in. Can't make it. Streaming
services exist, right, I can catch

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TD Jakes at home in my living
room. And then I think a lot

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of people are leaving the church because
the whole you know, it doesn't make

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a lot of sense, and they
don't believe what it says, and it

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fosters poor relationships with people that we
should care about. But it's probably the

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Barista thing. Honestly, statistically,
I think, statistically, you're right,

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it's probably the Barista thing. But
on a more serious note, I do

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think there is a lot of people
who leave the church but still have some

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sort of semblance of Christianity. I
actually think that's I think that's more common

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than us, yeah, which is
like not adhering to Christianity at all.

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I think that there are lots of
people who leave the church but still identify

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as Christian or identify as having a
God belief. And there are people who

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say it the whole thing is is
wrong. Yeah, in all seriousness,

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I talk to a lot of people
who still follow the teachings of Jesus from

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the Bible, but they don't want
to consider themselves Christians, and they don't

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want to go to Christian churches because
of the messages they don't agree with and

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the things that they don't agree with, and so they would rather just say

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they say they're a christ follower,
they say they followed Jesus Jesus teachings,

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but they don't want to use the
word Christian or Evangelical or anything like that

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because they don't identify in that way. There. Yeah, absolutely no.

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I think if Deconstruction podcasts have taught
me one thing is that there is a

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significant portion of the population that does
feel disaffected by religious organizations at large,

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but still have that sort of spiritual
identity that they wish to assuage. Either

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because when you grow up at a
church, right, like, that's a

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that's a meaningful community space which you're
a part of that. We just don't

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have the luxury of having as non
theists most of the time. I mean,

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there are some organizations like aim Men
of Boston, but like those are

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not common, like right, right, and they're usually online, not really

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in person quite often. Yeah,
and we don't have like liturgy. Like

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liturgy is a huge part of the
religious organization structure, particularly if you're like

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from a like a Catholic denomination for
example, that that is very meaningful for

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a lot of folks too. So
some people want to have that spirituals practice

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in a group setting. So for
some people, like literally church becomes like

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their weekly podcast that they listen to, and like, I, I don't

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know, that's that's how it kind
of was for me for a bit.

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I definitely was in sort of a
deconstruction zone where I was kind of half

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way in, halfway out and didn't
know where to put myself before it right

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put everything away so right, And
a lot of people don't understand that deconstruction

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doesn't always mean going from religious to
entirely non religious. It just means changing

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your belief system or deconstructing from your
original belief system. So you can deconstruct

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and still believe that there's a God
or believe in the teachings of Jesus and

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have deconstructed from your prior belief system. Absolutely, Yeah, there's definitely a

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lot of stuff to think about there, So give us your answers. Why

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are people really leaving the church?
Serious? Or not serious. Be honest,

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we do tend to we do tend
to go towards the not serious,

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so you know, with that bias
in mind, please leave a common below

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and let us know. But real
serious answers too, just for discussion sake.

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I think is really good. And
before we get going here, in

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our first call, we want to
go to our crew camp real quick,

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just to show you that there are
real human beings that work on this show

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besides the two people you see on
screen right now. So let's go to

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that camp and see all the folks
who are helping out today. Thank you

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00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:08.039
guys so much for doing all the
work. And we've got people in the

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free Thowle Library right now in Austin, Texas, which is great. We've

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been doing so many shows not in
the library now. It's always weird to

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see it, you know. Oh, Man, twenty twenty really just changed

250
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everything. Huh oh my gosh,
it really did. Yeah, but hey,

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00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.920
you know what it also means we
could have hosts from all over the

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00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:33.240
world now as regular hosts, which
is is pretty cool and it's cool,

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but I do miss seeing people person
like me, like how I am local

254
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and I live in Austin. You
totally live super You're so local to Austin.

255
00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:48.680
I think if you drew like a
new equator and uh, you know,

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prime meridian to Austin. I think
you're right in the send. Yeah,

257
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:52.960
like if I move at all,
they'll see me in your square.

258
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That's how local I am. Yeah, yeah, you can. You can.

259
00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:00.680
You can base your directions based on
where Sydney is in the city.

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You can see behind me. Yeah, that's definitely Austin behind him. Let's

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get to our calls, shall we. Uh we got a couple of different

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people who want to talk to us. Uh so first, Oh man,

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we have some good ones here.
Oh my goodness, we have some good

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ones. Folks. Please stay on
the line so that we can talk to

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00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:25.240
everyone. First, let's talk to
Jack, who wants to talk to us

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from Florida, who seems to have
an issue with our talk Heathen to me

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segment saying that we're being disrespectful.
Jack, you are alive on talk Heathen.

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What's up, hi, guys?
Yeah, the chat told me to

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call in because I found the jokes
about Jesus disrespectful. I'm an atheist.

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I just don't feel like it's a
good look for you guys to imply that

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you know, Jesus committed best reality. I understand not agreeing with the religion,

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but when it rises us to disrespect, I think it's going to turn

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off people that might be interested in
a seism or on the sense as far

274
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as ISSU is a concern. When
you hear you guys talk like that,

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yeah, I think that's I think
it's fair, that's valid. I think

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so. You know, like the
thing is, for some people, making

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jokes like that is a relief,
right. It's a way of saying,

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hey, it's okay to talk about
this thing that we haven't been able to

279
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.400
talk about or haven't been able to
make fun of our entire lives, and

280
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sort of to give people the confidence
in speaking up against something that they haven't

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previously had the power to do.
The downside of it is, you're right.

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It can be tacky, right,
it can. It cannot be seen

283
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in good taste, and people think
that we're not being serious or that we

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don't have serious conversations about the subjects. The thing is, we can all

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contain multitudes, right. There are
some days where I'm going to be really

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academic about everything that I'm talking about
on here, and sometimes I'm just down

287
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for really good joke and I would
rather not limit myself based on outside perspectives

288
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on so what other people think I
should be, rather than just be the

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person that I am, which is
both. At least that's my answer to

290
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:07.720
it. I don't know what you
think, is it. Yeah, I

291
00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:12.839
think that is a completely fair and
completely valid observation to make, and I

292
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.440
think that you're correct. I think
that some people would hear an introduction like

293
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that and be like, you know, this isn't the kind of show that

294
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I want to call into. I
also think that some people the way that

295
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they process the trauma that they've been
through and things that they've experienced is through

296
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:33.319
humor, and so sometimes at the
risk of processing those things, you can't

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00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:37.480
make everyone happy. As with any
type of humor, any type of communication,

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there will always be someone who's offended. And I think people are just

299
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as offended by that as sometimes they
are by the things we talk about on

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the calls, by the topics we
cover. So I think you're completely and

301
00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:53.880
totally correct in your statement, and
I do appreciate that you call in and

302
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:59.920
you let us know your thoughts on
that, and I think that some episodes

303
00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.640
are for certain people and some episodes
aren't for those particular people. And I

304
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:08.160
just hope that each episode offers something
a little bit different for different types of

305
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people and what they're looking for.
But I do appreciate your perspective on that.

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00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:17.279
I think you're correct. Yeah,
there you go, Jack, What

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00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:21.720
do you think? Oh? Yeah, thank you. I mean, I

308
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:29.799
still think it's a bit disrespectful.
I think you're gonna lose people, and

309
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:32.200
that way, I think you've acknowledged
that you're going to lose people and that

310
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:34.920
every episode is for everybody. It
seems like you're okay with it. I

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00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:41.599
understand that people use jokes to process
the trauma that religion can cause. I

312
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:47.400
understand all that, but I wonder
if really making jokes on a show like

313
00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:52.400
this rather than just you know,
in your personal everyday conversations, I wonder

314
00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:56.119
if that's really the prizest choice.
But that's pretty much all I got to

315
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:57.519
say. Yeah, And I think
that's a great question, and I would

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00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:02.240
love to hear in the comments what
people think in terms of do do they

317
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:06.400
agree, do they disagree? Which
side do they see the point of?

318
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.039
I think that's a great question.
Yeah, I think so too. What

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00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:11.440
also, I want to point out
those are jokes that were made by the

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00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.279
comment section. Yeah, we did
not make those jokes. We didn't make

321
00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:19.200
We did add on to it though. I understand that. I understand that.

322
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But y'all asked for and we did
and we yeah, and we picked

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00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:29.920
those and yeah, it's totally fair. But in the same sense, right,

324
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:36.960
provocation is also a method of getting
people to call in and getting people

325
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to have some of those some of
those deeper conversations with us. So,

326
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:44.759
like, there's there's two sides to
the coin. If we were all completely

327
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.319
academic all the time, there's a
lot of people that wouldn't even bother to

328
00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.599
watch this. A lot of people
have first found ACA content because they saw

329
00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:55.720
a title that they thought maybe was
ridiculous, and then that gets it into

330
00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:59.880
it. Right, So it's just
it is kind of capitalism and action there.

331
00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:03.440
It is sort of like appealing to
certain demographics and market and and and

332
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.839
you know that aspect of it is
always kind of you know, uh,

333
00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:12.680
not the best or right. I
hate participating in and helping and making the

334
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.839
YouTube algorithm work the way it does
as much as anybody else does. That

335
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:21.400
like makes content on this platform.
But uh, yeah, I don't know.

336
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:23.160
It's just uh, it's just a
part of it sometimes, you know.

337
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:30.480
But yeah, that's all I got. Yeah, I I I understand

338
00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:36.119
that. It's just I wonder if
the kind of the kind of content is

339
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:41.839
actually going to attract like the type
of Christians that would be more inflamed by

340
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.960
it and turn off the more academic
ones that might give you good calls.

341
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.720
Yeah that's yeah, Yeah, that's
a great question. That's a great question.

342
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.440
That's fair, and it's not something
I haven't uh thought of myself.

343
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:00.400
You know, Uh, that our
content has made particular openings is made by

344
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.279
a large group of people. It's
not just us as hosts. It's it's

345
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:04.920
it's a lot of people that approve
and make these messages go out. So,

346
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.799
yeah, we hear your feedback.
We appreciate that. Jack. Well

347
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.680
we'll see, we'll see what happens
with that and comments too. Let us

348
00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:15.559
know what you think about that kind
of stuff. Uh, and maybe our

349
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.240
producers could take a look at that
and see, oh maybe there's a way,

350
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.680
there's different ways we can go about
it. So thanks Jack, Yeah,

351
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.240
thank you Jack. Anything else you
want to add before we let you

352
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:30.759
go, oh, thank he's gone
now, all right, well thank you

353
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.200
jack h Yeah, no, it's
it's it's fair. And you know,

354
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:37.759
I don't always like reading the openings
that we have either. Sometimes I think

355
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.279
our stuff is kind of crass.
I really do. Yeah, and I

356
00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.240
definitely I completely understand. I completely
understand what he's saying, and I think

357
00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:51.480
that is a valid point to make. And I think that that's one of

358
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:55.640
the reasons why we take these calls
is to to get people's thoughts and opinions,

359
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:57.200
to hear what they have to say, to weigh in in the comments.

360
00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:00.359
And there's no better way to open
it as discussion then have people call

361
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:06.640
in who have constructive feedback and critique
like that. So I appreciate that he

362
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:10.359
called in and left that feedback.
And if people comment below like, yeah,

363
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:12.039
I didn't want to say anything,
but this is always the part that

364
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:15.359
I hate the most, or something
like that, it's something we can learn

365
00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.599
from. That is something we can
learn from. I always at least feel

366
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.440
better at the end of the day
if the substance of our conversation always ends

367
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.359
up being good. Yeah, you
know, we kind of have to do.

368
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:27.599
We have to play the YouTube game. We have to do the bullshit

369
00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:32.839
shock jock kind of stuff sometimes,
which is like, it's not great,

370
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:37.480
it's not a great feeling. But
also we want the show to be successful

371
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:40.640
and we want it to like,
we want to have people watching it.

372
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.440
Right, if it doesn't grow,
then it's not hitting more people. Right,

373
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.240
you want us to stop doing the
shock jock humor at the beginning,

374
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:53.839
Please subscribe to the Patreon, Please
send us, Please speak with your dollars.

375
00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:56.279
Damn. She's like, Hey,
if you want this to stop,

376
00:25:56.359 --> 00:26:00.440
pay us and then we'll stop.
Wow, all right, I mean,

377
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.480
but we would we do listen to
the folks who do pay for the show,

378
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.880
because obviously they're the ones who are
very invested in it. So yeah,

379
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:12.079
that is a method of letting us
know. But that being said,

380
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:15.960
we should go ahead and move on
to some other callers who want to talk

381
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.400
to us about other stuff. I
think that was a fairly what's that?

382
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.359
Oh, I said, let's do
it. Yeah, let's do it before

383
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.400
we get to this next call,
I should mention as well as the page

384
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.319
run, we also have an option
to become a channel member on the show,

385
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:33.079
So you can click that joint button
below if you want to you get

386
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.480
custom chat emotes, early access to
clips and shorts, and you will be

387
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:41.200
helping perpetuate the mission of Talking in
the Eightheist community of Austin. And we're

388
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.160
serious about this. By the way. We want to make content that everybody

389
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.799
enjoys if everybody's not enjoying it,
and we want to listen that feedback and

390
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.920
make the appropriate changes. So thank
you for everybody who is a member and

391
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:55.440
everybody who does support the show.
That way. Another way to support the

392
00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:59.000
show's course through super chats. You
know, you can leave a question or

393
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.200
comment through that. We try to
get to as many as we can.

394
00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:04.640
We don't have any in the moment, but as soon as we do,

395
00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:07.960
we will read some of those out
and last before we move on. Liking

396
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:12.480
the video and subscribing is also a
way that you can support through non monetary

397
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:17.799
means, enabling those notifications too.
But of course we're always going to be

398
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:22.279
live at the same time every Sunday
for the foreseeable future, so hopefully you

399
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:26.480
know when that comes out. But
anyway, let's take another caller here.

400
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:33.319
This is an interesting premise. Here
we have Howard who's calling from New York.

401
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.680
Here, Howard says or wants to
know why some atheists are against the

402
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:44.000
death penalty while we accept evolution,
and is that a contradiction? Howard,

403
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.240
you're live on Talk Heathen. Is
that a fair summation of your question?

404
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:55.200
Yes, yes, Hi Dan,
Hi Sydney. Yeah, that's my main

405
00:27:55.359 --> 00:28:00.799
question. But very quickly, I
wondered if either one unviewed have an answer

406
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:06.599
to a biology question I have.
Let me give you the rundown. My

407
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:10.720
grandmother had, my mother, my
mother had my sister, My sister had

408
00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:18.400
a daughter. Is my grandmother's eggs
in my sister's daughter? How how many

409
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:27.319
lines of of of an egg would
would there be from a grandmother to a

410
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:32.680
granddaughter? Do you know understand my
question? How many lines of an egg?

411
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:40.720
How are you lines of DNA or
pardon? So, are you asking

412
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:44.039
if any of the eggs in your
sister would be eggs from your grandmother or

413
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:52.880
like what percentage? Yes? Or
any part of my grandmother's eggs DNA or

414
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:59.440
whatever would would carry on through generations? I mean we can never be that.

415
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.400
So, first of all, there
are chimera eggs, right, there

416
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.160
are eggs that actually don't even take
parts of DNA from like one parent and

417
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:12.880
stuff and so like the answer is
that really depends like it it depends on

418
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:17.279
people's individual situations. I don't know
if biologists can ever say for sure,

419
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:22.000
yeah, you're exactly this percentage of
your parents and this percentage of your other

420
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.920
parents. I don't know if it
really works like that. Also, like

421
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:29.160
DNA does change and stuff over time, right, So like the DNA that

422
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:32.599
you have in your body right now
is different from what you may have like

423
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:36.000
seven years ago. So well it's
hard to say, like what is going

424
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:38.119
to be from your parents and what's
going to be from your own. Yeah,

425
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:41.759
well, and women are born,
if I remember correctly, women are

426
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:45.119
born with the number of eggs are
going to have their entire life. It's

427
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.960
not like sperm where they can regenerate. So eggs are brand new. The

428
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.880
like the eggs that a woman has
in her body are just her eggs.

429
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:57.920
But in terms of like familial DNA, if you're just splitting it kind of

430
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:03.160
stand wise, like there's no steps
or halves or anything in there. I

431
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:07.319
imagine it would be like their DNA
would share I don't know what is that,

432
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.279
like an eighth or sixteenth something like
that. But in terms of eggs

433
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:14.319
that I think the eggs are just
brand new, they're just her own.

434
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.480
Yeah, it's it's it's I think
there's my grandmother's egg. Go ahead,

435
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:25.000
go ahead. Inside my grandmother's egg
was my mother's egg. And inside my

436
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:30.519
mother's egg was her daughter's egg inside
her egg. And does it do you

437
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.440
mean the egg that eventually became your
mother and the egg that eventually became your

438
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.839
sister, then yes, oh yeah, if that's the case. Yeah,

439
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:45.759
so the egg contains the next generation? Yeah, in part yes, yeah,

440
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.960
partially. Okay, okay, yeah, that was the connection I was

441
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:55.480
trying to make. Okay to the
to my question about the death penalty.

442
00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:03.880
Most atheists feel that this is it, This is our life now is all

443
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:08.079
we have and it's precious. Correct, would you agree most atheists feel that

444
00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:14.240
way? It's hard to say.
Atheists are are blend of a lot of

445
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:17.880
different people. We don't subscribe to
one particular ideology. But at least folks

446
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:22.079
I would say, I'm comfortable saying
most of the atheists are the atheists me

447
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:26.559
of Austin feel that way. Yeah. Yeah, So if someone believes this

448
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:33.240
life is all we have, that
would make it even more precious, right,

449
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:41.079
that our consciousness ends at depth and
that's it. So why would people

450
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:47.319
who've evolved from animals if you believe
in evolution, we are an animal,

451
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:53.640
correct, yes, So why would
an animal not eliminate another animal that is

452
00:31:55.000 --> 00:32:00.519
taking that precious life away from someone? You know what I mean? You

453
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:08.880
mean like murderers, Yeah, anyone
who would commit acts against someone else.

454
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:16.880
And a lot of animal societies they
eliminate that person for that animal, But

455
00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:22.519
the humans won't do that. A
lot of them don't believe that there's that

456
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:31.400
killing someone who eliminates the preciousness of
someone's life. It just doesn't connect with

457
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:37.279
me. Whynths all say that they
don't believe in the death Coloty. So

458
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.960
Dan, do you mind if I
yeah? Yeah, go ahead. So

459
00:32:40.119 --> 00:32:45.319
I think something that I think something
that separates human beings from animals. You

460
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:49.400
know, we're all mammals, But
I think something that separates human beings from

461
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:55.039
animals is the idea to have thoughts
and feelings and to understand nuance, and

462
00:32:55.160 --> 00:33:01.440
to understand that not everything is black
and and we can also predict the thoughts

463
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:07.680
and feelings of other human beings,
whereas say monkeys or leopards or cats,

464
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:12.920
they can't necessarily process what they think
the thoughts of the other cat would be,

465
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.000
or what the other lion would be. I can look at Dan and

466
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:20.640
I can say he would probably be
upset about this, he would probably be

467
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.799
hurt about this. He would probably
enjoy this thing. And that is something

468
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:29.599
that is unique to human beings that
animals can't do. And so when animals

469
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.839
see one of them kill another one
and then they kill the one that's killing

470
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:38.200
everybody, what they're saying is this
animal is defective. It's eliminating members of

471
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:42.920
our population. We're just going to
get rid of it because it doesn't work

472
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:47.119
for us. That's just a natural
inclination. Human beings can say. Sometimes

473
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:52.039
people kill because they just want to
kill. Sometimes people kill because they have

474
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:58.240
brain damage. Sometimes people kill because
of the environment in which they were raised,

475
00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:02.480
they have mental illness. Such a
wide variety of nuance when it comes

476
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:07.880
to why people harm other human beings
that humans look at it and say,

477
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.159
we need to get to the bottom
of what it was that caused this person

478
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:13.760
to be this way. We need
to get to the bottom of what it

479
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.079
is that we can fix or what
it is that we can study in order

480
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:22.000
to change this. And the answer
isn't always kill that human being. If

481
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:24.519
we kill other human beings, that
doesn't necessarily make us any better than the

482
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:30.960
original murder that we are getting justice
over if if that makes sense, Yeah,

483
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:34.800
that's a good answer. I mean, I would also say, first

484
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.280
of all, there are atheists that
think that the death penalty is fine.

485
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:42.719
To be an atheist doesn't require any
ideological commitments. I think you're correctough and

486
00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:46.599
saying that. If you were to
survey the atheists in the United States,

487
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:50.360
I think most of them would say
that there don't agree with the death penalty.

488
00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:53.719
And I think that mostly stems from
the idea of punitive justice versus rehabilitative

489
00:34:53.840 --> 00:35:00.639
justice. And there is a pretty
broad consensus amongst atheists, at least in

490
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:06.800
our community that I believe in this
idea of ability of justice, that justice

491
00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:12.320
isn't meant to be sort of a
punishing affair, but rather justice should instead

492
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:16.400
be something that helps grow and change
the people that are a part of the

493
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:20.440
system. That if they aren't changing
people, and if they aren't doing things,

494
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:24.000
then then the system isn't working as
it should be now. And of

495
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:29.480
course not everybody feels that way,
and there are folks that will that currently

496
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:32.400
exists that we can't change, right, We either lack the medical technology or

497
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:36.079
it's just a matter of will.
I mean, it's just it's just how

498
00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:38.599
it is. And there are some
of us that are okay with that that

499
00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:43.880
we still support those people anyway,
even if they're living in a prison population,

500
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:46.440
because people feel that's the right thing
to do. We don't always make

501
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:51.000
our choices based off of pure economics, right of Oh, well, this

502
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:52.679
person is a dredge on our society, so we need to cut them off,

503
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:57.079
right, Like, that's just not
how we always make decisions, And

504
00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:00.199
some would argue it's not the most
humane way to make decisions. There.

505
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:04.199
You're gonna get a variety of answers
on this, but for me, it

506
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:10.119
is because of this idea of rehabilitative
justice that causing someone to die for their

507
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:14.960
actions does it make us necessarily the
better for doing that, even if that

508
00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:19.079
person is a murderer, even if
they are guilty of crimes that are heinous

509
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:22.760
and should be rectified in some way. You know, it's not that we

510
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.000
don't think that justice shouldn't occur.
It's just we don't think that the death

511
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:32.039
penalty is the most just action right
in that scenario, and killing somebody doesn't

512
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:37.239
solve the problem. It solves our
need for justice and bloodlust. If we're

513
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:42.440
killing somebody for killing somebody, we're
just doing it because we feel upset about

514
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.639
what they did and the only way
that we're going to stop feeling these difficult

515
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:47.199
feelings. Or if we kill that
person and we feel vindicated, but it

516
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:52.800
doesn't actually do anything in terms of
fixing the problem, changing the system,

517
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:58.719
making any kind of positive change or
development in any way. All it does

518
00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:02.880
is feed our needed for I feel
better now because that person is gone,

519
00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:08.559
and that doesn't help anyone, if
that makes sense. Yeah, there you

520
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:13.239
go. I think we gave some
pretty long answers there what you're both saying,

521
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:16.000
Yeah, okay, cool, glad
to do. I just think that

522
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:24.360
I just think that the more precious
you consider your life, that this is

523
00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:30.360
it, This is all there is, and how precious it is, especially

524
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:37.679
small children that are killed for no
reason, no mental issue, just random

525
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:44.599
murder of a child who has been
robbed of the's limited life we have here.

526
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:49.559
If this is all there is,
then someone needs to pay. Yeah,

527
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:52.960
listen, how we're not saying that
we don't listen how We don't say

528
00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:59.199
that no justice should happen to murderers, right, We're just saying we shouldn't

529
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:04.960
kill them because, for exactly your
point, life is precious. So taking

530
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.400
away that murderer's life, we also
believe is a kind of wrong in some

531
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:13.000
way, at least those of us
who believe in a rehabilitative justice system.

532
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:16.039
That doesn't mean they shouldn't suffer consequences
for their actions. We just don't think

533
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:20.239
those consequences should involve the death path, right. They should not be in

534
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:23.920
the population with anyone else. And
I might argue that I don't think there

535
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:30.119
are many cases in which, especially
children are harmed for quote no good reason

536
00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:31.599
at all. I think if we
study these people, and we pay a

537
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:37.840
lot attention, and we ask them
questions, and we deep dive into their

538
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:43.400
background, there will be even if
unjustified, there will be a particular reason

539
00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:50.039
or thing or trauma or something that
made that person do that action, even

540
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:52.880
if it's just drugs, even if
it's they were just out of their mind.

541
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:55.719
And so we can't again, we
can't study these things, and we

542
00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:59.920
can't fix these things if the only
way we operate is eye for an eye.

543
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:05.159
But again, not not advocating for
the rescue of people who murder children

544
00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:07.599
or anything like that. I don't
think they belong in the population. I

545
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:09.599
don't believe they have should have the
right to vote, or anything like that.

546
00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:15.480
But I would argue that I would
be hard pressed to find a scenario

547
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:19.480
in which somebody was murdered by somebody
who was completely normal and saying and had

548
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:22.639
absolutely nothing wrong with them and just
chose to murder one day for no reason,

549
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:27.400
even if they don't recognize that something
is wrong with them when they do

550
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:35.960
it. Okay, I appreciate both
of your comments and your opinions. Thank

551
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:40.000
you Howard taking my call. Yeah, appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate

552
00:39:40.039 --> 00:39:45.440
the call there and appreciate the conversation
thereof. And you're gonna find, like

553
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:49.360
I already see some differences between my
view in Sydney's view right there, right

554
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.440
like, uh, you know,
there's there's there's nuances there, and there's

555
00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:59.480
we're not a unified political body,
much to the dismay of many of us,

556
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:04.320
We don't know think the same way
about it because we don't have Christianity

557
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:08.960
proclaims to have a unified moral system. That is, you should be able

558
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:15.039
to make All Christians should be able
to make the same decisions if they follow

559
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.599
the guidelines presented from the system.
Obviously that doesn't work in practice, but

560
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:22.960
this is what Christianity says should work. In practice. It doesn't work because

561
00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:29.199
Christians have a wide variety of death
penalty sort of opinions right and atheist.

562
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:36.840
Obviously, maybe even wider opinion because
we're not having to cite biblical sources or

563
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:42.280
historical examples, right, we can
draw from even a wider sort of variety

564
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.719
of sources in which to make our
decisions on why we think something is right

565
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:51.400
or wrong. So it becomes immensely
more complicated, and you're gonna see some

566
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:53.159
differences there. But by and large, yeah, I think, especially in

567
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:57.480
America, most of us don't support
death penalty, right, And like,

568
00:40:57.559 --> 00:41:00.199
don't get me wrong, I absolutely
have days where I hear something on the

569
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:02.559
news and I'm like, get rid
of that guy, Like yet I'm out

570
00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:07.320
of here. But you also recognize
sometimes, or at least in my opinion,

571
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:12.440
you recognize sometimes that there will always
be an innocent person who gets put

572
00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:16.840
to death if we allow death penalties
to do. And so even if it

573
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:21.639
means keeping somebody alive that I think
is garbage and deserves to be kicked headfirst

574
00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:25.760
into a fire pit. If that
saves even one person from being innocently put

575
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:29.880
to death because the ability to put
them to death doesn't exist, I think

576
00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:35.000
that's worth it. Yes, Yes, I stand that. I stand that

577
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:38.679
Sydney, good good opinions, goodbye, good job. Yes we have some

578
00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:42.199
super chance that we need to read
out real quick. One we got from

579
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:45.920
from the lovely Kelly Laughlin, member
of two years, gave two dollars who

580
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:50.599
covered me on truth wanted on Friday
because I could do it so sick naked

581
00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:54.800
Kelly, who said, did Jesus
die a virgin answer? No, he

582
00:41:54.960 --> 00:42:01.280
got nailed. Kelly. Let the
record show we did not write. Now

583
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:06.360
we're oh my god. See now
everybody's trying to make us say the worst

584
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:12.360
jokes possible after our discourse there,
which is very funny. All right,

585
00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:16.840
Kelly, you get that one,
Thanks for donating. Another one is a

586
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:23.760
new member who gave two hundred chech
korunas, which I don't know how much

587
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:28.639
that is in America a lot.
It sounds like a lot, but money

588
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:31.400
can be very deceptive. But thank
you. Quantum answer, who's a new

589
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.840
member to talk to you than who
said I think if Christians can freely say

590
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:39.679
about Jesus anything they want without evidence, we can say also whatever we want

591
00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:45.159
about Jesus without evidence. It's fair. By the way, jokes are fun,

592
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:50.199
preaching is not. That's an interesting
perspective, that is. Yeah.

593
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:55.119
I like that people just kind of
say shit and it doesn't necessarily have to

594
00:42:55.159 --> 00:42:59.679
be true. I do, like, yeah, obviously the the beast.

595
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:04.760
Yeah, maybe it's a little different, right, I don't know. Well,

596
00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:07.519
And like I've always thought that if
you're going to make yourself a public

597
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:10.199
figure, you should be open to
jokes about yourself and at your own expense.

598
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:15.360
And like, if anyone's a public
figure, it's Jesus, you know

599
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:16.719
what I mean. It's Jesus.
That's true, and it is one of

600
00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:20.960
the most public figures. I think
there was a study done once that said

601
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:24.920
Jesus and Ronald McDonald were like the
two most recognizable people to children in like

602
00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:30.159
kindergarteners. I think you're thinking of
They talked about the cross and the and

603
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:35.400
the McDonald's m yeah, something like
that. It's like a lot of people

604
00:43:35.480 --> 00:43:38.800
know Jesus, so I feel like
Jesus can be the butt of some jokes.

605
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:44.239
Yeah, I think I think that
study was talking about like recognizable symbols,

606
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.960
and I think it showed that the
McDonald's M was more recognizable than the

607
00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:51.840
cross. I was totally wrong on
that. Yeah, maybe kru Can can

608
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:54.119
can back me up there and show
me what that was. Just like inventing

609
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:59.280
statistics. Yeah, just for the
just for the sake of accuracy, if

610
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:00.840
we're ever going to say certain things. But yeah, no, Jesus is

611
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:05.960
definitely like a popular dude. You
can't say he's not. He's very popular,

612
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:09.480
very popular for a guy who's been
gone for a while, very large

613
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:14.159
staying power back guy. Well that
in Walt Disney. But a lot of

614
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:16.480
people don't think that he's been on
for a long time. So there's that.

615
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:21.400
Yeah, that's true. I think
that's that's part of it. One

616
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:25.000
more super chat here we have from
Ben nine Lives, who gave four ninety

617
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:29.840
nine and says great combo Sydney and
Dan. Quick question, Dan, are

618
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:32.880
you still going to continue truth wanted? Yes? I think I have hosted

619
00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:36.199
the last two episodes before the last
one. Again, I was sick this

620
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:43.000
last weekend. I get people are
worried because I haven't been hosting as much.

621
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:45.000
I've just had a lot going on
in life, to be honest,

622
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:47.519
I was out for a minute and
then I try to get back on and

623
00:44:47.559 --> 00:44:51.000
then some other stuff come up.
So just a reminder again, we say

624
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:53.719
this all the time. I have
a regular job, I do regular things

625
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:59.440
outside of this, and I also
have been trying to host another project that's

626
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:01.559
alive on Thursday nights that's outside of
the ACA, and you know, it's

627
00:45:01.639 --> 00:45:05.719
like a lot of just takes up
my time and sometimes too, I'm just

628
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:07.880
like, I just want to do
other things. If you want to see

629
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:14.079
Dan more often, join our Patreon. Yeah, now I I will.

630
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:16.679
I you know, I'm I will
let you you will know if I'm not

631
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:21.400
on truth want anymore or talk even
I will post about it somewhere or something

632
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:27.000
the earth were no longer on truth
one. Uh yeah, yeah, I

633
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:30.800
like it will it will be that
information will be publicly available, so so

634
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:35.599
you know, I I have no
like, Yeah, I have no like

635
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:37.480
agree bit that says, oh,
I can't say if I'm not on anymore

636
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:40.400
or whatever, Like, yeah,
I will you know. That's that's I

637
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:45.280
I I continue to enjoy hosting it. I've just had a lot of personal

638
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:49.719
stuff happened up up recently, so
you know, it's it's it's meant that

639
00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:52.400
I have been able to host every
time. So twenty twenty four has been

640
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:54.280
a doozy. Let me tell you. Yeah, I find by the way,

641
00:45:54.480 --> 00:46:00.079
folks, I finally got my car
back last week last week from my

642
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:06.840
accident that happened in October. Uh
so that tells you and Austome Police Department

643
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:10.639
has not done any work on figuring
out the drunk driver that hit me and

644
00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:15.280
kind of changed my life. So
that's cool. Thanks APD. Really appreciate

645
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:20.199
that. So just a little public
announcement there. I'm glad that my car

646
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:22.000
was fixed. At least that was
I didn't expect that to happen. So

647
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:25.440
yeah, but anyway, that is. That's all the super tests we got

648
00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:29.320
right now, but we will continue
to read them as they come up.

649
00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:35.239
Let's get to another caller here.
We have uh, we've got again a

650
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:37.960
lot of good god gosh, a
lot of good ones on the line right

651
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.559
now. I want to get to
Brett though. Let's talk to Brett from

652
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:45.639
Missouri. Brett says the New Testament
is a good guide for morality. Brett,

653
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:52.039
you're live on Talk Heathen. What's
up. Hello. I hope you're

654
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:57.320
all doing well. I actually run
a YouTube thing in a podcast myself and

655
00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:00.480
I thought you guys were interesting,
so i'd call you up. I'm at

656
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:07.679
Brett Keene on YouTube if you're curious. Okay, right, So what do

657
00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:10.639
you think? Why do you think
the New Testament is a good guide to

658
00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:19.400
morality? Let's start there. Well, there's aren't it's face surface by itself,

659
00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:23.360
it is actually a good guide.
I've even heard many atheists states that

660
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:29.960
the philosophy that Jesus taught was exceptional
and one could actually live a pretty good

661
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:35.400
life based upon it. But I've
also compared the theology and the morality based

662
00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:39.239
upon other religions as well as atheism, and I've come to the conclusion that

663
00:47:39.400 --> 00:47:46.559
atheism is a subjective morality. It's
basically whatever feels good, nihilistic, nothing

664
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:52.280
really has any meaning and value.
It's only what's acceptable in society or whatever

665
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:55.719
nature evolved us to be kind of
concept. Well, as you know,

666
00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:01.679
nature isn't very kind. There's a
lot of things such as pedophilia, killing,

667
00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:07.039
destruction, and nature and society.
We've got you guys were just talking

668
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:10.000
about the death penalty, right.
One of the big reasons why Christians argue

669
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:15.079
over it is because our system is
broken, it's messed up, so we

670
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:17.159
don't know if we should go along
with the system that says it's okay to

671
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:22.320
kill people when they can't even get
their cases right or people are treated fairly

672
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:29.039
in the process. You get what
I'm saying. Yes, And also Jesus

673
00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:32.320
is a victim of the death penalty, so I would think that most Christians

674
00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:37.480
would be against it, but you
know, obviously they don't all agree on

675
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:39.360
that. So yes, And Brett, before we continue, though, everything

676
00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:43.800
you've said so far is about atheism. I haven't heard anything about the New

677
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:47.920
Testament. And also you've described atheists
morality as nihilism, and I don't know

678
00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:52.079
if you've actually done and I'm sorry
correct me if I'm wrong, Brett,

679
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:58.880
But have you actually read the literature
on secular philosophy, because there are many

680
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:04.679
philosophers that have to be a very
I actually used to be a very very

681
00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:10.239
popular social media former atheist until I
came over to Christianity. I've only been

682
00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:15.000
doing Christianity and theism for about five
six years, but Okay, the majority

683
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:20.480
of my life doing the Aaron Rahm, Matt Della Hunty amazing Anus kind of

684
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:23.400
thing. That's great, Sorry about
that, Remember, I appreciate that.

685
00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:30.239
But I'm I'm asking about because there's
different forms of secular morality, right,

686
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:32.440
right, Like if you look at
Camu, if you look at Sarch,

687
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:36.559
if you look at a Nietzsche.
I mean, all of these are just

688
00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:40.079
twentieth century examples obviously go to fill
out the majority of secular moral systems,

689
00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:45.079
right, But like there's more than
one kind of secular morality. And is

690
00:49:45.159 --> 00:49:47.880
it subjective? Well, it's not
based on a universal moral principle all the

691
00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:52.519
time. Yeah, But like you
know, to just come to the collision

692
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:57.360
say that it's all just nihilism,
that's a red flag for me, right,

693
00:49:57.559 --> 00:50:02.679
you understand, right, Well,
wasn't Nietzsche a nihilist? He basically

694
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:06.920
said, you know, even though
he believed that God did not exist,

695
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:10.159
even stated God's dead, he said, we have to have something to fill

696
00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:14.679
the void. In his writings,
he said, if we don't have some

697
00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:17.719
kind of moral foundation, then there's
going to be it's going to be a

698
00:50:17.800 --> 00:50:22.719
cataclysm. Society can't hold itself.
That's why a lot of our leaders say

699
00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:28.440
that if you don't have God in
those objective concepts to go along with,

700
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:32.039
then it's it's how do you make
laws? Like that? Who's going to

701
00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:39.119
make the laws if it's just our
human subjective behavior, animalistic instincts and ideas.

702
00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:45.039
Okay, so again we're talking about
something if you're talking about what Nietzsche

703
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:51.920
wrote in Thus spoke Zara Thrusta,
which he's talking about the deconstruction of Christianity

704
00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:58.719
as the main social and moral function
of society. He does say that there

705
00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:01.960
has to be something that comes afterwards, right, He's using Zara thrust is

706
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:07.800
a is a is a. You
know, it's sort of the profit that

707
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:12.199
he uses to sort of represent this. And he says, there's this coming

708
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:15.119
of age where there's going to be
you know, people who are looking for

709
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:20.599
something outside of of Christianity in order
to fulfill that. And he has a

710
00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:24.880
lot of various ideas about what that
might be. But like when you say

711
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:29.400
he's for nihilism, I mean again, it's like, well, he's describing

712
00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:34.159
like one potential system, a system
that he thinks is going to be you

713
00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:38.480
know, useful across all of of
well, not useful necessarily, I mean

714
00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:42.639
for usefulness. He's talking about the
ubermentioned stuff's where he's writing about that,

715
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:47.079
but like nihilism, he's this is
a descriptive part of his more systems.

716
00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:50.320
Okay, so that's that's kind of
the nuance I want to make here,

717
00:51:50.360 --> 00:51:53.760
because he's not saying this is a
good thing and that this is like what

718
00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:57.199
we should all be following. He's
saying that this is going to be the

719
00:51:57.280 --> 00:52:00.280
result of it if we don't develop
you know, sex their forms of morality,

720
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:05.159
which other writers like later do,
which again it's like this is a

721
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:08.159
very complicated issue. There's like a
lot of thought that's gone into this.

722
00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:13.239
So I just have to do with
the New Testament either. I've also yeah,

723
00:52:13.239 --> 00:52:14.800
it doesn't really have much to do
it, like like, okay,

724
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:19.519
we can talk about the problems of
secular morality all day, right, Absolutely,

725
00:52:19.719 --> 00:52:23.639
that doesn't mean the New Testament is
suddenly right the greatest and best of

726
00:52:23.719 --> 00:52:28.679
all the morality systems out right,
right exactly. Those are two totally different

727
00:52:29.239 --> 00:52:35.239
conversations to be had. Well,
I was when we started the conversation,

728
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:40.000
if you'll remember, I said,
compared to the atheist position and other views

729
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:45.880
that I've researched and studied. I
believe that the New Testament has a more

730
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:52.559
efficient moral system than what is set
up. And I don't just say that

731
00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:57.039
based upon obviously disbelief and faith.
I based it on stats and what we've

732
00:52:57.039 --> 00:53:04.679
seen historically. Anytime that seen where
non believers were given power or political push,

733
00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:10.440
it always ended the entire civilizations being
enslaved or killed. Gun control where

734
00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:15.280
weapons were removed than people were left, like setting ducts in a barrel,

735
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:20.440
so it never turned out good.
God, I don't think that's the case

736
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:25.119
though. You know, America was
one of the largest slave owning organizations like

737
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:31.199
in the world for a long time, right, obviously, and we were.

738
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:36.039
It's not like we are less Like
it's not like we're more Christian now,

739
00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:40.800
right, there are more people like
statistically who identify not saying population wise,

740
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:45.239
but but but per person, like
not per person, Sorry, I'm

741
00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:50.719
the opposite of per person. If
you divide up the population of slave owning

742
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.880
Americans and all Americans, there's like
we're more Christians than there are now.

743
00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:58.880
So, like, I don't understand
why you're saying it's the more it used.

744
00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:02.119
The word efficient is interesting, Like
why on earth would we follow Christianity

745
00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:07.840
when it seems to lead to just
as many problems as any other system,

746
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:10.639
Like, I don't see how it's
the best one. And the New Testament,

747
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:15.519
and yeah, the New Testament talks
a lot about taking slaves in a

748
00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:20.719
way that it supports it so absolutely
it never and there is not a single

749
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:23.559
line in the Bible that says slavery
is wrong, right, or that human

750
00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:27.880
ownership shouldn't happen. They literally give
you instructions on how to do it.

751
00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:35.360
Yeah, no, there's not there. Not In the Old Testament it says

752
00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:38.519
that if you kidnap people, then
you'll be you'll get the capital punishment.

753
00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:44.440
You're not allowed to take a person
as possession. The entire book of Exodus

754
00:54:44.519 --> 00:54:47.920
talks about a man who is sent
by God to free over four hundred thousand

755
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:52.119
slaves. And as far as that
doesn't mean that the institution of slavery is

756
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:58.559
inherently bad, that happened because it
was the occupation of Jewish people, and

757
00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:00.880
by the way, which didn't happen, right, that narrative is false.

758
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:06.800
But also if you look at Leviticus, which is what Sydney is referencing,

759
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:12.039
that outlines the actual rules that you
have to follow if you're going to own

760
00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:15.280
a slave, right, which again
it doesn't say don't own a slave.

761
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:17.800
It says, this is what you
do when you own a slave. These

762
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:22.760
are the preferred ways in which you
should own a slave, because you should.

763
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:28.519
Apparently. Okay, so you know, you guys are making some good

764
00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:31.360
points, but as far as the
New Testament goes, you guys would have

765
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:36.079
to agree on this that if you're
doing on to others you want to be

766
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:38.800
done under yourself, and you're loving
people, and you're loving your neighbor and

767
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:44.800
loving your enemy, you would not
enslave them. That's unless the Bible gives

768
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:49.719
you permission to enslave them, which
does Again, the slaves are not considered

769
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:52.239
your neighbor in the Bible. That's
not who they're talking about. They're talking

770
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:57.239
about peop who are your equals.
They definitely had slaves that did not have

771
00:55:57.360 --> 00:56:00.000
the same rights and freedoms as everybody
else. When they say love thy neighbors,

772
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:02.159
they're talking about non slaves. They're
talking about people who are equal in

773
00:56:02.199 --> 00:56:06.679
your community. I do not think
that counts for slaves. Yes, in

774
00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:10.599
the Epistles, Paul does not write
slave owners free your slaves. He says,

775
00:56:12.119 --> 00:56:16.599
slaves obey your masters. Okay,
Jesus, Like if we're just saying,

776
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:21.239
oh, do unto others as you
should do under yourself is the best

777
00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:23.599
form of morality. Okay, that's
one thing. Oh, we could talk

778
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:28.679
about that, But that's different from
just saying the New Testament is consistent in

779
00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:30.920
that idea, because it's definitely not
not No, it is definitely not.

780
00:56:34.119 --> 00:56:38.119
Well, let's take history for example. You mentioned slavery in the United States

781
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:43.400
of America. Now, if we
really dwelled into this, how did people

782
00:56:43.480 --> 00:56:46.719
get freed from slavery? Anyway?
It was the Christian community, the Christian

783
00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:52.159
citizens who actually fought. You can't
find me one single apist who actually fought

784
00:56:52.199 --> 00:57:00.599
against us. You can't find a
Christian that supported slavery. Is that what?

785
00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:07.760
We Christians who actually stopped slavery?
We also Christians who owned slaves.

786
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:13.639
Like you understand that it was like, definitely okay by most Christians for a

787
00:57:13.880 --> 00:57:21.320
long time. Yes, the American
South very Christian very pro slavery like that

788
00:57:21.400 --> 00:57:28.679
as a whole, those things go
hand in hand. You do realize that

789
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:32.760
there was a lot of Christians who
were hung alongside blacks for actually you do

790
00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:37.719
realize there were Christians that were doing
the hangings, like you really are doing

791
00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:40.960
a chicken and egg thing here,
Okay, here's the chicken. It's the

792
00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:45.960
Christian society, the Christian institutions that
allowed it. We didn't even allow women

793
00:57:46.039 --> 00:57:52.119
to vote until the nineteen hundreds,
Okay. And that's also because of Christians,

794
00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:57.480
by the way. And it's because
it was secular forms of morality,

795
00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:02.719
humanism that was influencing this stuff more
than anything. Right, Puanism did not

796
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:07.360
only exist in society, but more
as humanism began to develop, as secular

797
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:14.280
forms of justice began to become widespread
across the world, that's when we actually

798
00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:17.639
saw the social changes. It's not
because people got to their senses and realized,

799
00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:22.280
oh well, Christianity actually says this. I'm sure some of them justified

800
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:27.559
their anti slavery practices through Christianity.
In fact, I know that for effect

801
00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:30.039
because I've actually read about this subject. But if you also read about this

802
00:58:30.159 --> 00:58:36.400
subject, you will see document after
document after document that outlines church sermons,

803
00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:39.440
that outlines people's public opinions at the
time that said, yes, absolutely,

804
00:58:39.559 --> 00:58:46.880
the owning of people is absolutely okayed
by Christianity and they had no doubts about

805
00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:50.440
that, at least some of them. Definitely, we're okay with this,

806
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:58.239
especially depending on the Again, Okay, so historically Christians are actually the ones

807
00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:01.920
who broke the slavery and that's the
reason why people are free today. But

808
00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:07.480
no, no, no, no, no, it was the Christians that

809
00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:14.599
went to fucking Africa or capitalists,
but also Christians that went to fucking Africa

810
00:59:14.719 --> 00:59:17.519
and took those people over in the
first place. Okay, this was a

811
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:22.360
mostly Christian society that we're doing these
things. Slavery was just as much of

812
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:29.639
a legitimate practice in Christianity as anything
else that the Bible prescribes, because there

813
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:36.280
are no admonitions against Christians against slavery
in the Bible. There is absolutely zero,

814
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:39.920
none, no supporting scripture that says
you shouldn't other You have to go

815
00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:44.960
the back way around and say,
oh, well, the Bible says we

816
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.280
should treat others like we should treat
ourselves right and that and and then you

817
00:59:49.360 --> 00:59:52.800
can get to that conclusion. But
the actual institution of slavery is not prohibited

818
00:59:52.800 --> 01:00:01.239
in the Bible. In fact,
it's actually supported. Phibit Brett. I'm

819
01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:06.360
an atheist and I'm telling you it
is wrong to own slaves. Brett did

820
01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:08.119
not watch the Cold Open, Brett, you were. I'm sorry, Brett.

821
01:00:08.519 --> 01:00:12.280
I don't know who you did on
what you did on social media or

822
01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:15.840
whatever. But like, if you're
going to be an influencer, you have

823
01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:20.199
to know the literature, right,
you have to know the fact from just

824
01:00:20.360 --> 01:00:23.519
like the common narrative that gets spouted
off by apologists and stuff, because like

825
01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:30.280
I like this is this is absolutely
ahistorical in your understanding, and also just

826
01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:36.480
I don't know, I'm kind of
flabbergasted that you take this position on this.

827
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:42.920
I don't think there's a way that
you can seriously take this. Yes,

828
01:00:43.400 --> 01:00:46.079
yes, because you're seeing many wrong
things, Yestt. I want to

829
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:52.159
make sure that our audience knows that
they're wrong. You don't even have enough

830
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.280
moral framework to listen to another person's
side of you. First of all,

831
01:00:55.320 --> 01:00:59.400
Brett, I'm talking to you right
now on the show. We're live on

832
01:00:59.519 --> 01:01:01.320
the air, Okay, I couldn't
test hang up any time I want.

833
01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:06.559
We'll go ahead, Sydney see Buddy, Sydney talk now, because I have

834
01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:08.440
anywhere go ahead. I'm sorry,
Frett, Brett, I have listened.

835
01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:12.440
I know who you are. I've
listened to hours of your content, hours

836
01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:15.760
of your content. I've listened to
so much of your content that I recognize

837
01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:17.639
what kind of conversation we were about
to go into because I remember you,

838
01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:21.639
and I've watched your content, and
I've listened to you at nauseum. That's

839
01:01:21.679 --> 01:01:23.159
why I feel comfortable being like,
ooh, this is not going to go

840
01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:25.679
well, because i know exactly who
you are, and I've watched your content.

841
01:01:25.719 --> 01:01:29.480
I've watched your content since back in
like twenty thirteen. I know exactly

842
01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:31.559
who you were when you called.
I have listened to you so often that

843
01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:35.079
I don't even have to hear what
you're about to say in order to know

844
01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:37.000
what you're about to say. Right, So it's not like we don't want

845
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:39.079
to listen to you. It's that
we have listened to you, and we

846
01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:44.280
know what a time crunch and a
time suck this conversation's going to be,

847
01:01:44.719 --> 01:01:50.039
because I recognize that you're just going
to disagree with us, even when you

848
01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:52.159
know for a fact you're mis citing
history, even when you know for a

849
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:55.000
fact you're misquoting the Bible. You
know this. You and I both know

850
01:01:55.119 --> 01:01:59.280
this about you. Brett. I
remember you and I both know that you

851
01:01:59.599 --> 01:02:02.079
just like to continue to say the
opposite even when you know for a fact

852
01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:06.679
that what you're saying is not true, because you like to hear yourself life

853
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:08.119
on air and you like to get
people railed up. But I remember you,

854
01:02:08.239 --> 01:02:12.440
Brett, So accuse me all you
want of not letting you talk,

855
01:02:12.760 --> 01:02:15.119
but I have listened to you ad
nauseum, and I know how this conversation's

856
01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:19.159
gonna go. And it's fine because
you're gonna leave here and you're still gonna

857
01:02:19.159 --> 01:02:21.719
assume you want and you're probably gonna
make a video about how you won,

858
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:23.800
and you know atheists won't let you
talk or something like that, and that's

859
01:02:23.800 --> 01:02:28.280
fine. I hope it's monetized.
But it's like, I know how this

860
01:02:28.360 --> 01:02:30.840
conversation is gonna go because I've listened
to you. If that makes sense.

861
01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:37.840
Yeah, it's cowardly to mute people
like that and just ramp right over them.

862
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:40.639
Do you have no moral framework and
you've got no place to be able

863
01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:45.519
to tell us who's right or wrong? Brett. I'll tell you what's cowardly.

864
01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:49.320
It's not doing your fucking homework and
telling us that you think you know

865
01:02:49.400 --> 01:02:52.159
what the fuck you're talking about because
you are talking out of your ass right

866
01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:59.079
now. Seriously, why don't you
go fuck yourself? Actually, what's hey?

867
01:02:59.280 --> 01:03:01.800
Do you want to? You ad
do unto you and I'm telling you

868
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:07.280
to do unto yourself. Go fuck
yourself? You understand, all right?

869
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:10.760
We have conversations with all kinds of
people on this show. You are not

870
01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:15.960
even the most divisive. You don't
even come close. No, okay,

871
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:21.280
you're really not worth you if you're
gonna seriously come here and pretend like you

872
01:03:21.400 --> 01:03:27.239
can lecture us about morality when you
haven't even read the fucking books, when

873
01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:30.440
you don't even understand our position and
you choose to frame it in your own

874
01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:35.559
narrative anyway, I mean, and
when you assume we don't know who you

875
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:38.960
are, Yeah, it's going to
be an influencer. At least be expected

876
01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:42.559
for people to know who you are. You're a bad influencer if you assume

877
01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:45.480
you're a stranger at everything, I
don't know who the fuck you are.

878
01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:47.880
But if you're an influencer, I
feel sad for the folks that listen to

879
01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:51.519
you because you don't know what the
fuck you're talking You just don't. You

880
01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:54.280
don't know what you're talking about.
There are lots of people who have identified

881
01:03:54.360 --> 01:03:58.760
secular moral frameworks, and again,
not all of them are create equal.

882
01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:01.320
There are definitely some that work better
than others. But there is a conversation

883
01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:05.760
there that you are missing out on, because everything I've heard so far is

884
01:04:05.800 --> 01:04:10.960
the exact same shit I've heard from
Christian apologists who have also never actually read

885
01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:15.679
anything by any serious moral philosopher that
has thought about this stuff, and just

886
01:04:15.800 --> 01:04:19.760
think that Christianity is the only game
in town. It's not. It's not

887
01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:27.440
even close. So anyway, Uh, ridiculous conversation. But it always gets

888
01:04:27.480 --> 01:04:30.360
ridiculous when we talk about slavery.
I love that one. Oh it's the

889
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:34.960
Christian it's the white man that say
that ended slavery, Sydney. I want

890
01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:39.599
to know which he's going to use
that he destroyed me. I want to

891
01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:42.679
know which one that's movie. Don't
you know it's white people that helped end

892
01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:45.599
the institution of slavery? You know? Yeah, I don't know, it's

893
01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:50.119
it's it's that same kind of argument. Ridiculous. Uh, absolutely, honestly

894
01:04:50.159 --> 01:04:53.000
though, I'm going to say this, and I hope he's still listening.

895
01:04:53.280 --> 01:04:56.320
Yeah, I feel a little bit
like I talk to a celebrity. I

896
01:04:56.440 --> 01:04:59.239
do. I feel a little bit
like I talked to a celebrity. I'm

897
01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:02.320
I'm happy for I feel a little
bit like I talked to somebody who is

898
01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:06.800
like famous on reality TV in like
two thousand and one. Yeah, yeah,

899
01:05:06.840 --> 01:05:11.159
maybe. So anyway, that that
was, that was ridiculous. Sorry

900
01:05:11.199 --> 01:05:14.360
if I was dominating the conversation there
citing you know, my moral frame.

901
01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:16.280
No, no, no, you
don't understand. My moral framework doesn't allow

902
01:05:17.079 --> 01:05:20.559
for other people to talk on a
call in show, well, especially if

903
01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:24.800
they're women, especially especially if you're
a woman. Yeah, no, definitely,

904
01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:28.039
your your opinion is definitely not on
the same level as far for sure

905
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:31.679
not. And so we got to
like accommodate time accordingly, I think.

906
01:05:32.079 --> 01:05:40.559
Anyway, moving on from that fucking
conversation, Oh boy, let's see,

907
01:05:40.559 --> 01:05:44.599
do I have any other stuff to
talk about right now? Let's let's uh,

908
01:05:44.800 --> 01:05:47.320
let's talk about our top five patrons. Actually it's about that time,

909
01:05:48.239 --> 01:05:51.360
and I think we should do that. We want to thank everybody that donates

910
01:05:51.800 --> 01:05:57.440
to the Talk Heathen Patreon. You
guys are awesome, uh, and help

911
01:05:57.480 --> 01:06:00.440
support the show. So we're gonna
read our top five patrons actually said,

912
01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:02.559
do you want to read? Yes, top five Patriots. I would like

913
01:06:02.639 --> 01:06:05.519
to know from you or the audience
what voice you would like me to read

914
01:06:05.559 --> 01:06:12.599
the top five patrons? And ooh, ooh hmm, do you have a

915
01:06:12.679 --> 01:06:16.039
good like Almo impression? I don't
know if oh, I don't know if

916
01:06:16.039 --> 01:06:17.760
I can do Elmo. That's like
the one I don't know if I can

917
01:06:17.800 --> 01:06:21.519
do. Okay, how about like
like, who's somebody soft like mister Rogers

918
01:06:21.719 --> 01:06:29.480
or somebody Bob Ross proud of you? Let's see, Yeah, I'll read

919
01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:31.400
it like the way that Bob Ross
would read it. Okay, the top

920
01:06:31.480 --> 01:06:34.760
five patrons and they're they're really great
patrens. You're almost too soft? Can

921
01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:39.800
you speak? The top five patrons? And you know they're happy little patrons

922
01:06:39.800 --> 01:06:44.639
and we're proud of them, and
they're they're trying really hard. For example,

923
01:06:45.039 --> 01:06:47.119
one of my favorite patrons, although
I don't have a most favorite because

924
01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:50.960
everybody's equal. Uh Dingleberry Jackson,
it's great to have you. You're just

925
01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:56.320
a wonderful person. Oops, All
Singularity, we we're so glad to have

926
01:06:56.440 --> 01:06:58.880
you here. You're you're loved by
us all and I hope you're having a

927
01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:02.000
great day de voor Valgin. I
hope I pronounced that right, But if

928
01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:04.000
I didn't, I hope you can
forgive me, because you know, we're

929
01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:09.000
just happy to have you here.
Then we've got kelvettykel Vetti sounds like a

930
01:07:09.079 --> 01:07:12.320
font. I'm proud of you.
I'm really proud of you. Left in

931
01:07:12.400 --> 01:07:14.840
the leaves. I hope you.
I hope you enjoy it there in the

932
01:07:14.920 --> 01:07:16.320
leaves, because we're here for you
whenever you're ready to come back. We

933
01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:19.679
never left you. We've been here
with you the whole time. And then

934
01:07:19.840 --> 01:07:26.360
honorable mention six Brian zoop Key.
Honorable mention six Brian Zupkey. I don't

935
01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:28.119
know if that's your whole name or
if I was supposed to read you as

936
01:07:28.119 --> 01:07:31.079
an honorable that's the honorable mention.
Yep. Really happy to have you here.

937
01:07:31.159 --> 01:07:33.519
You're just You're really fantastic, and
I hope you know that we're just

938
01:07:33.639 --> 01:07:39.280
we're here for you. Thank you, Thank you for that that lovely reading,

939
01:07:39.960 --> 01:07:43.159
Sydney. That was awesome. Uh
yeah, And if you want to

940
01:07:43.199 --> 01:07:45.559
donate, you can do that at
tiny dot, cc slash, Patreon th

941
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:48.159
h and maybe if you get a
top five you'll also get a lovely reading

942
01:07:48.199 --> 01:07:54.760
from Should Sydney should be sad Ross? Maybe? No, that doesn't really

943
01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:59.519
work sid sid Ross. I don't
know. Sid Ross sounds like a Grammy

944
01:07:59.559 --> 01:08:02.079
winner. Sid Ross doesn't like great. I kind of like sad Ross now

945
01:08:02.119 --> 01:08:05.800
that I like that. Yeah,
sod Ross is a is a new one

946
01:08:06.239 --> 01:08:12.159
that I'm thinking to take home.
Okay, Uh, let us continue.

947
01:08:12.559 --> 01:08:16.439
Man again, We've got some real
good ones here, but we will take

948
01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:20.319
this next one. I think.
Andrew from Florida, Uh, and oh

949
01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:25.159
man, Okay, this I may
regret taking this, but it's already You're

950
01:08:25.159 --> 01:08:28.359
already on the line here, Andrew. Uh, this is coming from the

951
01:08:28.399 --> 01:08:32.399
collscreen. You think that Jesus was
the Martin Luther King Junior of his time?

952
01:08:33.319 --> 01:08:42.479
Uh, please elaborate on that,
Andrew. Yeah, according to historical

953
01:08:42.600 --> 01:08:46.439
Jesus scholarship like from Yale and Harvard
and these Ivy League institutions. Uh,

954
01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:53.479
Jesus, the historical Jesus was a
progressive, non violent, resistant revolutionary.

955
01:08:53.680 --> 01:08:59.680
He wanted to liberate his people from
an oppressive regime called Rome. And he

956
01:09:00.079 --> 01:09:03.000
he did show a lot of grace
and mercy to the marginalized of his society,

957
01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:08.159
like the prostitutes. You know,
prostitution back then, it wasn't willful.

958
01:09:08.199 --> 01:09:11.199
It was out of desperation, and
Jesus showed them a lot of grace

959
01:09:11.239 --> 01:09:15.600
and humility. And Jesus was an
extreme humanist when it came to his own

960
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:20.960
interpretation of the Jewish law. So
Jesus's flaws, like he didn't denounce slavery.

961
01:09:21.520 --> 01:09:25.319
I think his flaws were because Jesus
was a product of his time.

962
01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:30.000
But if you compare him to the
product of his time, he was pretty

963
01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:34.560
progressive. I'm willing to grant some
things here. I think. Well,

964
01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:38.600
first of all, so the store
with Jesus in the prostitute, it's it's

965
01:09:38.680 --> 01:09:42.000
Jesus and the adulter. So I
think it's the prower term there. That's

966
01:09:42.039 --> 01:09:45.560
actually not that's that's a later addition
to the uh to the gospels. Just

967
01:09:45.720 --> 01:09:50.199
fi for people's understanding that. Sorry, okay, oh no, that's fine

968
01:09:50.199 --> 01:09:54.000
if you're talking about like Mary Magdalene
or whatever. I mean, Like,

969
01:09:54.079 --> 01:10:00.640
look, so was Jesus a non
violent sort of revolutionary I actual, for

970
01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:02.439
the most part, I agree with
that. Besides, like the weird verse,

971
01:10:02.520 --> 01:10:05.119
I think was it John It's like
I come not to bring peace,

972
01:10:05.159 --> 01:10:09.479
but the sword which is like really
weird or maybe that's in Mark, I

973
01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:13.439
need to I need to update myself
on that. But yeah, I think

974
01:10:13.479 --> 01:10:15.680
if you if you take the body
of work that has come out of that

975
01:10:17.119 --> 01:10:20.039
and you're trying to describe a historical
Jesus, I think that's fair. I

976
01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:24.319
don't think you have to go so
far to say that he's MLK because there's

977
01:10:24.319 --> 01:10:30.039
a lot of like non violent revolutionaries
that were definitely fighting for like different things

978
01:10:30.159 --> 01:10:33.560
in what Jesus was, particularly Martin
Luther King Junior. But yeah, if

979
01:10:33.560 --> 01:10:36.680
we want to just say, like
if we're trying to describe historical Jesus and

980
01:10:36.760 --> 01:10:42.880
say that he was, to use
a modern label progressive for his time in

981
01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:45.359
a non violent sense, I mean
I guess I'd be willing to meet you

982
01:10:45.359 --> 01:10:46.720
there. What do you think,
Sydney, Yeah, I think if we're

983
01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:51.119
just making a comparison of like peaceful
people who made an impact and then yeah,

984
01:10:51.199 --> 01:10:54.920
like that's that's not where I thought
that was going. So yeah,

985
01:10:54.920 --> 01:10:57.760
I thought that was going on not
where I thought that was going. But

986
01:10:57.840 --> 01:11:00.159
yeah, no I'll grant that.
Yeah, there you go, Andrew,

987
01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:06.079
what do you think? Yeah?
Absolutely, you know, I'm glad we

988
01:11:06.159 --> 01:11:10.880
can find some common ground. I
just all the supernatural stuff. You know,

989
01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:14.239
he was an ancient Jews, so
he thought that a supernatural god would

990
01:11:14.279 --> 01:11:18.399
do it. I'm a dallast myself, but I think atheist should really appreciate

991
01:11:18.439 --> 01:11:24.000
the historical Jesus and ignore the one
that Paul, you know, recreated,

992
01:11:24.039 --> 01:11:30.159
and ignore the one that modern day
Christians recreated. Yeah, oh, go

993
01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:32.520
ahead, said well, I was
just gonna say, I mean so I

994
01:11:32.760 --> 01:11:36.079
I first of all, I app
you said something that most people don't say,

995
01:11:36.319 --> 01:11:42.880
which is actually fantastic, which is
Jesus's interpretation of Judaism, which is

996
01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:46.279
a big, big, big big
thing because a lot of Christians don't recognize

997
01:11:46.319 --> 01:11:51.359
that's what it is. Jesus's interpretation
of Judaism is what Christianity is. Because

998
01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:55.319
Christians like to think of it as
its own system, it's not. It's

999
01:11:55.399 --> 01:12:00.000
based off of Judaism, and it's
specifically with the Gospel's account of what Jesus.

1000
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:02.000
This is interpretation of Judaism and the
epistles of Paul. And he also

1001
01:12:02.159 --> 01:12:06.199
mentioned an interesting thing that Paul's reconstruction
of Jesus is not something that we should

1002
01:12:06.199 --> 01:12:09.920
all take into account. And I
also agree with you on that Paul,

1003
01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:13.680
As far as we know, I
never actually met Jesus, so he's just

1004
01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:17.640
saying whatever he thinks is right honestly
a lot of times and interpreting that super

1005
01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:23.239
imposing that onto Jesus. Unfortunately,
the vast majority of Christians, for the

1006
01:12:23.359 --> 01:12:27.399
vast majority of history, do take
those epistles quite seriously, and so it's

1007
01:12:27.479 --> 01:12:30.600
kind of hard to separate Christianity as
we know it today as a separate thing

1008
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:35.640
from what maybe the historical Jesus actually
was. This idea of a secular understanding

1009
01:12:35.640 --> 01:12:40.680
of a historical account of Jesus is
quite new in history. Only start around

1010
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:44.239
that really right before the twentieth century, if I recalled right, we were

1011
01:12:44.239 --> 01:12:48.399
talking about eighteen hundreds. Really,
like, actually sussing this out was sort

1012
01:12:48.399 --> 01:12:54.680
of a newer academic phenomenon than what's
historically been, you know, an understanding

1013
01:12:54.720 --> 01:12:58.239
of Jesus accounts. So yeah,
I think we're mostly in agreement here,

1014
01:12:58.279 --> 01:13:04.039
Andrew, Yeah, yeah, So
atheists, oh, you know, the

1015
01:13:04.199 --> 01:13:10.880
historical Jesus and apology for all those
insults. Uh, well hold on,

1016
01:13:11.399 --> 01:13:13.399
you got to give the man credit. I think you got to give the

1017
01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:15.800
man credit. Well, here's the
thing though, and I don't know about

1018
01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:20.399
you, Dan, but I've always
thought that if the if Jesus as a

1019
01:13:20.520 --> 01:13:26.239
as a character, as a person
were looked at from the perspective of say

1020
01:13:26.399 --> 01:13:30.359
fables, of these are lessons we're
trying to learn from the same way that

1021
01:13:30.439 --> 01:13:32.479
Aesop's fables are, the same way
that so many stories are supposed to teach

1022
01:13:32.479 --> 01:13:35.279
a lesson. I think there's a
lot of good that we can draw from

1023
01:13:35.319 --> 01:13:42.159
the way that Jesus. Not the
overall Bible, but Jesus talked to people

1024
01:13:42.239 --> 01:13:44.560
and spoke to people, and the
things he said and the rules he said

1025
01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:46.520
to follow, specifically Jesus. I
don't want anybody to claim that I'm like

1026
01:13:46.720 --> 01:13:51.760
pro the Bible, because I'm not. I think where most people disagree is

1027
01:13:51.840 --> 01:13:57.079
whether or not he actually existed as
a human being. I think some people

1028
01:13:57.159 --> 01:13:59.840
think he really was on earth and
he existed. Some people don't, But

1029
01:14:00.399 --> 01:14:05.560
the actual actions and words and teachings
of Jesus aren't. I don't know a

1030
01:14:05.640 --> 01:14:11.119
lot of atheists who are riled up
about that part of the Bible. Yeah,

1031
01:14:11.960 --> 01:14:16.199
I mean so. So there's a
consensus among historical scholars that Jesus existed

1032
01:14:16.279 --> 01:14:20.720
as a person. His personship is
separate from that which is described when the

1033
01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:26.399
epistles, obviously, but also the
gospel accounts are not eyewitness accounts of Jesus,

1034
01:14:26.479 --> 01:14:29.520
so they're also in a way reconstructions
of Jesus. The truth is we

1035
01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:32.279
probably we don't really know a whole
lot. But but Andrew is right in

1036
01:14:32.399 --> 01:14:40.359
the conclusion that scholars make, which
is that Jesus was a likely non violent

1037
01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:45.039
revolutionary with a particular interpretation of Jesus. I mean, he's still a cult

1038
01:14:45.079 --> 01:14:48.279
leader, Andrew. That's the thing. He's still a cult leader. I

1039
01:14:48.840 --> 01:14:53.920
cannot I can't give him that right, and I apologize to him. Yeah,

1040
01:14:53.920 --> 01:14:57.079
I'm not gonna say, oh,
well, we should be thankful for

1041
01:14:57.279 --> 01:15:00.319
him, because no, he said
he I mean, well, actually the

1042
01:15:00.479 --> 01:15:03.319
set okay. But before I get
too much into the nuance, there's also

1043
01:15:03.359 --> 01:15:09.079
a difference in what scholarship actually thinks. I get it. There's there's also

1044
01:15:09.880 --> 01:15:13.880
a very much different account of what
Jesus actually said versus his divinity as well.

1045
01:15:13.920 --> 01:15:15.239
There's a lot of debate as to
whether he actually said he was the

1046
01:15:15.319 --> 01:15:19.319
son of God, because that's not
actually found in all the gospels. Weirdly

1047
01:15:19.439 --> 01:15:21.640
enough, you think it's there,
it's not. It's really mostly in John.

1048
01:15:21.680 --> 01:15:24.640
So it's like, yeah, okay, his divinity is also in question

1049
01:15:24.720 --> 01:15:27.479
whether he's actually the son of God. But point is, I think he

1050
01:15:28.279 --> 01:15:31.560
if he was a religious leader and
he had a different interpretation of Judaism,

1051
01:15:31.640 --> 01:15:34.600
it still comes with the baggage of
everything else, right, Like, I

1052
01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:39.359
don't know, there's there's something to
be said there about like, oh,

1053
01:15:39.399 --> 01:15:43.319
we should give credit to the guy
that kinda sorta got it right but also

1054
01:15:43.479 --> 01:15:46.079
ended up you know, screwing us
over in other ways too. It's it's

1055
01:15:46.119 --> 01:15:49.600
hard for me to give credit to
a cult leader again. But you know,

1056
01:15:50.359 --> 01:15:57.239
I guess you had some good points, you know. Anyway, that's

1057
01:15:57.239 --> 01:15:59.479
a lot of thoughts. I don't
know. Yeah, go ahead, Jesus.

1058
01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:06.920
Uh, Jesus denied when somebody like
his own divinity and luke ken he's

1059
01:16:06.960 --> 01:16:10.159
a good teacher. One once said, do it inherit eternal life, and

1060
01:16:10.239 --> 01:16:13.479
Jesus said, why do you call
me good? There's only one good but

1061
01:16:13.640 --> 01:16:16.199
God. So right right there,
you can just show Christian's look he was

1062
01:16:16.279 --> 01:16:18.960
he didn't think of himself as God. No, I agree with you.

1063
01:16:19.560 --> 01:16:25.000
Yeah, but that's why there's a
debate as to his divinity and that's why

1064
01:16:25.039 --> 01:16:29.239
you don't see a lot of that
language until John. So yeah, there's

1065
01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:33.199
we're we're in agreement there, Andrew, but we we've said a lot here.

1066
01:16:33.199 --> 01:16:36.960
I just want to make sure we're
on the same page mostly me.

1067
01:16:38.560 --> 01:16:43.680
Yeah, okay, cool, all
right. Would you have any interest in

1068
01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:45.359
calling in in the future, maybe
next week, to tell us a little

1069
01:16:45.399 --> 01:16:53.199
bit about Taoism and your beliefs?
Uh? Sure, Yeah, we'd love

1070
01:16:53.279 --> 01:16:58.279
to hear back from you at the
time. Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

1071
01:16:58.279 --> 01:17:04.359
I'm a dallist open to just as
a humanist construct soul why pro Christianity,

1072
01:17:04.560 --> 01:17:09.119
just the positive elements. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, we'd love to

1073
01:17:09.199 --> 01:17:11.840
have you call in next week or
something like that to tell us a little

1074
01:17:11.840 --> 01:17:15.640
bit more about it. Yeah.
I get you, Andrew, I get

1075
01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:17.119
you. You want to make sure
that we're giving credit where credit's due.

1076
01:17:17.399 --> 01:17:19.880
Right, Here's the thing. It's
hard for us to do that because we

1077
01:17:20.039 --> 01:17:28.079
have to give very very very specific
and nuance credits okay when those things are

1078
01:17:28.119 --> 01:17:31.039
appropriate, and it is very hard
to do that without people just taking a

1079
01:17:31.079 --> 01:17:34.319
clip from us and saying, oh
see, even Jesus, they think Jesus

1080
01:17:34.479 --> 01:17:38.439
is all right, you know,
it's it's it is an uphill battle for

1081
01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:42.479
us if we give any ounce of
you know, credit, which is why

1082
01:17:42.800 --> 01:17:45.680
you have it's like pulling teeth from
us. Okay, we really don't like

1083
01:17:45.800 --> 01:17:48.359
to say it all the time,
but like we can, we can give

1084
01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:53.439
that within the appropriate context, which
I think this conversation allows. It's just

1085
01:17:54.520 --> 01:17:57.000
it's it's not always easy to do
that. But Andrew, we are going

1086
01:17:57.039 --> 01:17:59.640
to go ahead and let you go
because we do have some other folks that

1087
01:17:59.640 --> 01:18:01.800
want to talk to us. But
that was a good conversation, Sidney,

1088
01:18:01.840 --> 01:18:08.720
what'd you think of that? Me
too. There is an after show discord

1089
01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:11.520
that you guys should check out before
the end of the show. It's on

1090
01:18:11.680 --> 01:18:14.960
the fan run discord server, so
take a look at for that. But

1091
01:18:15.039 --> 01:18:17.479
we have some more folks. Uh, We got like two more callers.

1092
01:18:17.479 --> 01:18:19.600
I want to see if you can
get to both or if not, at

1093
01:18:19.680 --> 01:18:25.479
least one of them. And this
next one is someone who's been on the

1094
01:18:25.560 --> 01:18:27.560
line for a while now, so
I want to get to them. This

1095
01:18:27.720 --> 01:18:32.560
is Sam calling in from Canada.
Sam is an ex Muslim and wanted to

1096
01:18:32.640 --> 01:18:35.760
talk to us about some of his
experiences. Sam your live on Talk Heathen

1097
01:18:35.800 --> 01:18:42.359
what's up, Hey, guys,
thanks for taking my call. Yeah,

1098
01:18:42.399 --> 01:18:46.560
it's just I've been listening to ACA
shows for many years, so I've heard

1099
01:18:46.600 --> 01:18:50.600
all types of topics discussed, but
i don't know if I've really heard this

1100
01:18:50.760 --> 01:18:56.640
one, which is, you know, basically, as a Muslim kid growing

1101
01:18:56.800 --> 01:19:01.720
up from a non Arabic speaking country
tree, you will have Quran classes the

1102
01:19:01.760 --> 01:19:05.880
same way that you know Christians will
have Sunday school usually on a Saturday,

1103
01:19:06.239 --> 01:19:09.560
you know, either be at the
monscu, you go to some kid's house,

1104
01:19:10.239 --> 01:19:16.800
and you would have these classes where
they teach you how to they teach

1105
01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:19.680
you Arabic, but they don't actually
teach you how to speak Arabic. So

1106
01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:25.079
you learn the alphabet and how to
sound things out and what it means when

1107
01:19:25.079 --> 01:19:29.439
the letters are put together and with
accents above and below them, but they

1108
01:19:29.560 --> 01:19:32.039
never actually tell you what it means. And so the whole purpose of it

1109
01:19:32.239 --> 01:19:38.279
is just to get you to read
the Quran, because the whole yeah,

1110
01:19:38.319 --> 01:19:40.720
the whole goal of being a Muslim
is is to read the Koran. So

1111
01:19:40.760 --> 01:19:43.880
once you actually read it, it
doesn't matter if you understand what you're reading.

1112
01:19:44.319 --> 01:19:46.199
So every week you kind of sound
out different sections of it until you

1113
01:19:46.319 --> 01:19:48.840
get to the end and there's like
a little bit of a celebration. As

1114
01:19:48.840 --> 01:19:51.359
a kid, but I always thought, well, you know, I didn't

1115
01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:55.560
register as a kid, but as
an adult, it's a bit sinister that

1116
01:19:55.640 --> 01:20:00.800
I spent years learning essentially Arabic,
but I can't speak arab and either can

1117
01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:03.399
my parents. Neither could my grandparents, and you know, they had the

1118
01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:08.000
same experience where they could sit there
and read it sounded out, but nothing,

1119
01:20:08.359 --> 01:20:12.600
It didn't mean anything to us.
Yeah, that is very interesting.

1120
01:20:13.159 --> 01:20:16.039
Interesting. I feel like Christianity and
Hebrew does that too, where they'll teach

1121
01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:19.880
you names or certain words, but
they don't teach you enough to actually go

1122
01:20:20.039 --> 01:20:25.119
back and read it in Hebrew and
figure out if it's the same as what

1123
01:20:25.199 --> 01:20:28.840
you've been told your whole life.
Very interesting. Yeah, I imagine it's

1124
01:20:28.880 --> 01:20:30.920
I can't speak to speak to that. But I also have Jewish friends and

1125
01:20:31.359 --> 01:20:34.279
told me they had the same experience
with Hebrew. So the reason why you

1126
01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:42.680
don't see that in Christianity is because
Jesus likely spoke Aramaic, and there is

1127
01:20:42.920 --> 01:20:48.479
no Aramaic Gospels, right, so
the original Gospels written in coin Greek,

1128
01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:56.520
and so later the Catholic Church famously
right, sort of adopts Latin as it's

1129
01:20:56.600 --> 01:21:00.239
kind of official language. But of
course Jesus wasn't speaking Latin either. That

1130
01:21:00.479 --> 01:21:04.319
was just sort of you know,
the canon way to read things. So

1131
01:21:04.640 --> 01:21:09.600
there's no like real origin language that
most of us have to stary. I

1132
01:21:09.640 --> 01:21:11.680
mean, like if you do New
Testament studies, they're going to talk about

1133
01:21:12.079 --> 01:21:15.199
Greek, and then they're going to
obviously talk about Hebrew as well, but

1134
01:21:15.279 --> 01:21:17.079
like there isn't as much of an
emphasis because as you know, you know,

1135
01:21:17.159 --> 01:21:23.439
in Islam, the prophet spoke and
wrote these things or his followers wrote

1136
01:21:23.520 --> 01:21:27.640
things in Arabic, and so that
is that like the official Holy language,

1137
01:21:27.720 --> 01:21:30.479
which is you know, just not
a Christian phenomenon, at least for most

1138
01:21:30.520 --> 01:21:34.279
of us. Yeah, well,
I mean, you get zero credit for

1139
01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:38.880
reading the Koran in any other language, like if you read it, if

1140
01:21:38.920 --> 01:21:42.079
you're an English speaking person and you
read it in English, you don't get

1141
01:21:42.079 --> 01:21:45.880
any credit for that. It's only
if you read it in Arabic, regardless

1142
01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:50.800
of whether you understand it, which
is funny because like allegedly the prophet Muhammad

1143
01:21:51.199 --> 01:21:56.560
is does can't write in Arabic either, like he was like famously illiterate,

1144
01:21:56.720 --> 01:22:00.279
right, So yeah, I mean
that's actually one of the one of the

1145
01:22:00.319 --> 01:22:01.800
proudest facts for a lot of Muslims, is that, right, that's part

1146
01:22:01.800 --> 01:22:05.640
of the miracle. So we got
to do all the work and he doesn't

1147
01:22:06.039 --> 01:22:12.079
do You think that's why so many
people who are Muslim are okay with the

1148
01:22:12.159 --> 01:22:15.000
idea that they can't necessarily like they're
not fluent in Arabic because you know,

1149
01:22:15.079 --> 01:22:20.800
oh well he wasn't either, So
yeah, possibly, possibly, I mean

1150
01:22:21.039 --> 01:22:27.279
personally I think that like, at
best it's just negligence, but more likely

1151
01:22:27.600 --> 01:22:30.079
it's that they don't want us to
know what these words mean, because if

1152
01:22:30.119 --> 01:22:33.439
we actually read them, then it's
it's not things that people want to hear.

1153
01:22:33.479 --> 01:22:38.039
It's kind of terrible stuff. And
you know, you're at red the

1154
01:22:38.119 --> 01:22:42.840
Karna English that I you know,
really detached myself from the religion, the

1155
01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:45.760
irony, I think, I think
the well, the intentions too fold one.

1156
01:22:45.159 --> 01:22:53.439
A lot of the original uh uh
texts in Islam were from oral traditions,

1157
01:22:53.840 --> 01:22:57.600
right, and so obviously those are
traditions were Arabic. So in order

1158
01:22:57.720 --> 01:23:00.159
to keep that cohesive, you have
to keep in the same language, because

1159
01:23:00.199 --> 01:23:03.239
when you translate stuff, you lose
meaning, right, So I think there's

1160
01:23:03.239 --> 01:23:08.039
an idea of keeping purity there in
some sense. But the irony is if

1161
01:23:08.079 --> 01:23:12.159
you don't actually speak Arabic, it's
it doesn't actually you don't retain the meaning

1162
01:23:12.159 --> 01:23:15.840
because you don't understand the context either, right, because you don't speak Arabic.

1163
01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:18.239
So it's kind of a uh,
you know, accorded with two sides

1164
01:23:18.239 --> 01:23:24.159
there. It doesn't really work out
for anybody. But yeah, yeah,

1165
01:23:24.680 --> 01:23:27.560
exactly. As kids, we would
we would read the verses together and then

1166
01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:30.399
we would have a teacher that would
paraphrase what we read. So it's this

1167
01:23:30.520 --> 01:23:33.880
version, but he wouldn't say this
is what each word meant that you just

1168
01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:41.840
read. Interesting. Yeah, that
is really funny. Yeah, obviously,

1169
01:23:41.880 --> 01:23:45.399
I wish we could talk more about
kids. Go ahead, Sam, Sorry,

1170
01:23:45.199 --> 01:23:47.880
I was just saying to imagine if
you sent your kid for seven or

1171
01:23:47.880 --> 01:23:50.720
eight years to language classes and at
the end of it you couldn't speak the

1172
01:23:50.760 --> 01:24:00.600
language yea in Spanish. Yeah,
one day I stop the BiblioTech And I

1173
01:24:00.760 --> 01:24:03.319
only know that line as much as
I do because the community was just a

1174
01:24:03.399 --> 01:24:06.960
fun show. But yeah, no, I I understand the frustration there that

1175
01:24:08.119 --> 01:24:11.079
that sucks that you can't even speak
the language, and the ones you do

1176
01:24:11.319 --> 01:24:13.840
is the like the kind of language
you don't even want to speak anyway.

1177
01:24:17.199 --> 01:24:19.840
Well, Sam, do you have
kids you plan on teaching? If you

1178
01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:23.079
had kids, would you teach your
kids or I guess you can't even teach

1179
01:24:23.119 --> 01:24:26.000
you because you don't even know the
arapic well enough to to do that.

1180
01:24:26.199 --> 01:24:29.960
Huh No, exactly. Yeah,
No, I don't have kids, but

1181
01:24:30.199 --> 01:24:32.159
I do have a niece and I'm
I do my best to make sure that

1182
01:24:32.279 --> 01:24:35.680
she's not any of this stuff,
or at least given that on the other

1183
01:24:35.760 --> 01:24:40.520
side of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe maybe not not teach

1184
01:24:40.560 --> 01:24:44.279
at all, but like with with
like a lot of context, right,

1185
01:24:44.319 --> 01:24:47.880
I think that's probably the best way
to do it. Yeah, totally.

1186
01:24:47.920 --> 01:24:49.760
Sam. Well, I'm gonna go
ahead and let you to go because I

1187
01:24:49.800 --> 01:24:53.039
want to get to at least one
of the call here before the end.

1188
01:24:53.079 --> 01:24:58.000
But thank you for sharing your experience, and uh props props to Sam for

1189
01:24:58.079 --> 01:25:00.399
waiting on the line for as long
he was, like on for like an

1190
01:25:00.399 --> 01:25:01.680
hour. We just had some of
the calls when I get to but that's

1191
01:25:01.720 --> 01:25:04.960
what happens sometimes, folks. You
always want to stay on because we still

1192
01:25:05.039 --> 01:25:09.279
might get to you towards the end
there, and we got another five minutes

1193
01:25:09.319 --> 01:25:11.279
or so, So I want to
get to another caller. Let's get to

1194
01:25:11.920 --> 01:25:15.079
Ash. Who's calling in from Illinois. Ash, you're live on Talk Heathen.

1195
01:25:15.199 --> 01:25:20.399
What's going on? Oh right,
where's it going? Good? Good?

1196
01:25:20.479 --> 01:25:23.119
Good? Good? What do you
want to talk to us about?

1197
01:25:25.119 --> 01:25:29.800
Well, I'll move to your channel. I got a shout out from the

1198
01:25:29.880 --> 01:25:32.079
Easiest experience. I was on their
life channel there and they shout, you

1199
01:25:32.159 --> 01:25:35.079
guys outside, figure, I give
you guys a listing. Hell yeah,

1200
01:25:36.159 --> 01:25:43.239
but I wanted to talk about what
you guys think about life after death.

1201
01:25:44.039 --> 01:25:47.640
I was pretty much an atheist for
all my life. My mom was Protestant,

1202
01:25:47.760 --> 01:25:51.560
my dad's Jewish, and they gave
me the opportunity to just look at

1203
01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:56.199
all the religions and I figured out
I was not a fan of any of

1204
01:25:56.279 --> 01:26:01.920
it. And I was pretty content
with my beliefs up until my friend died,

1205
01:26:03.039 --> 01:26:06.279
and after that I was a little
bit lost on what to believe because

1206
01:26:06.279 --> 01:26:09.399
I don't believe in heaven, I
don't believe in a hell. I don't

1207
01:26:09.399 --> 01:26:13.079
believe in ghosts, I don't believe
in spirits. But a part of me

1208
01:26:13.960 --> 01:26:16.760
still shouts out to the air like
as if she's there, and I want

1209
01:26:16.800 --> 01:26:20.520
to believe she's there. And you
know, there's a part of me feeling

1210
01:26:20.600 --> 01:26:24.840
like energy, like in my belief, energy cannot be created or destroyed.

1211
01:26:25.039 --> 01:26:29.880
Energy runs through us, runs in
the neurons on her brain. Maybe some

1212
01:26:30.079 --> 01:26:33.479
delusional thought of me believes a part
of her is there somewhere in this world,

1213
01:26:34.159 --> 01:26:38.760
you know, whether she's recycled into
it or not. And I don't

1214
01:26:38.800 --> 01:26:43.720
know what what's the the atheists belief
on it? Like, have you guys

1215
01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:47.039
run into this situation before? Dan? Do you mind if I answer absolutely?

1216
01:26:47.159 --> 01:26:53.800
Okay. So I'm gonna give you
my thoughts. Personally, I cannot

1217
01:26:53.800 --> 01:26:57.960
speak for all atheists, and they're
gonna sound at first, they're gonna sound

1218
01:26:58.119 --> 01:27:00.640
sad, but stick with me.
I like these thoughts in yours. Why

1219
01:27:01.199 --> 01:27:05.319
so, I personally do not believe
that there is any life after death.

1220
01:27:05.560 --> 01:27:09.760
I think that it is lights out. I think that it is over flipping

1221
01:27:09.800 --> 01:27:14.319
a switch. However, I'm actually
a big fan of that idea. And

1222
01:27:14.439 --> 01:27:21.000
let me explain. I never understood
true nothingness, like true blackness, true

1223
01:27:21.159 --> 01:27:28.239
peace until after I had once been
put under anesthesia. Have you ever been

1224
01:27:28.279 --> 01:27:31.800
put under anesthesia. Oh yeah,
it's weird. You don't even dream,

1225
01:27:31.880 --> 01:27:38.079
you just exactly you're just lights out
that they're counting down from whatever number they

1226
01:27:38.119 --> 01:27:41.000
said, Like in my experience it
was one hundred, I said ninety nine,

1227
01:27:41.039 --> 01:27:43.600
and then I woke up three and
a half hours later. So a

1228
01:27:43.720 --> 01:27:46.800
lot of people think that when atheists
say there's nothing after death, they go,

1229
01:27:47.000 --> 01:27:49.640
oh, so you think it's just
a black void. No, I

1230
01:27:49.720 --> 01:27:54.319
don't even think that. Oh so
you think you're just wandering around for nothingness.

1231
01:27:54.640 --> 01:28:00.560
A lot of people simply cannot process
the idea of nothing because and beings

1232
01:28:00.800 --> 01:28:06.680
have never once experienced nothing in our
lifetime unless you've been put under like that.

1233
01:28:06.920 --> 01:28:10.399
And then you're like, oh,
I get it. I didn't feel

1234
01:28:10.399 --> 01:28:15.600
anything. I wasn't lonely, it
wasn't sad, I didn't have any reflective

1235
01:28:15.720 --> 01:28:21.439
thoughts whatsoever. Now that being said, I think that memories and I think

1236
01:28:21.840 --> 01:28:28.560
the things those people leave behind can
still bring us peace and bring us joy,

1237
01:28:28.760 --> 01:28:32.680
and bring us the exact energy they
would want were they still alive.

1238
01:28:32.880 --> 01:28:38.399
I do believe that you feel your
friend, you still maybe hear her,

1239
01:28:38.680 --> 01:28:41.960
you still maybe see things that remind
you of her. And I do think

1240
01:28:42.039 --> 01:28:45.199
that those things should give those of
us who are alive peace. For example,

1241
01:28:45.279 --> 01:28:49.920
my dad died a week after my
first birthday, so I never really

1242
01:28:50.039 --> 01:28:55.079
knew him very well. But he
was an artist and he left art behind,

1243
01:28:55.119 --> 01:28:57.279
and he let he was a writer, and he left writing behind.

1244
01:28:57.319 --> 01:29:00.800
And there's pictures and people are still
here to tell me exactly what I do

1245
01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:03.239
that's just like him. Apparently there's
a pose I do when I'm thinking that's

1246
01:29:03.359 --> 01:29:08.560
just like him. And so while
I do not think that he is here

1247
01:29:08.680 --> 01:29:11.880
with us anymore, and I don't
think that I'm going to heaven and I'm

1248
01:29:11.880 --> 01:29:15.359
going to see him again, I
still get immense peace by being told all

1249
01:29:15.520 --> 01:29:19.159
the things that I do that are
like him, all the interests I have

1250
01:29:19.319 --> 01:29:21.880
that he was interested in, And
there's no way I would have known that.

1251
01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:25.439
It's not like I'm just trying to
copy and be like him. And

1252
01:29:25.600 --> 01:29:29.960
so, while I don't think your
friend, in my personal opinion, I

1253
01:29:29.960 --> 01:29:33.479
don't speak for all atheists, while
I don't think your friend is there anymore

1254
01:29:33.680 --> 01:29:39.000
to what you know her to have
been, I do think that you should

1255
01:29:39.039 --> 01:29:44.720
embrace those feelings and those thoughts and
those opportunities to still maybe talk to her

1256
01:29:44.960 --> 01:29:47.960
or if it makes you feel better
to surmise what she might have thought about

1257
01:29:48.039 --> 01:29:51.720
certain things that she didn't get to
live to see. And I do think

1258
01:29:51.800 --> 01:29:56.479
that your friend would want you to
find peace and those things and would want

1259
01:29:56.520 --> 01:30:00.560
you to know that you can still
do those things even if she's not here

1260
01:30:00.880 --> 01:30:05.479
with us. If that makes sense, that's very well. I'm all in

1261
01:30:05.640 --> 01:30:10.039
back tears right now. That that's
very well said. I I guess I

1262
01:30:10.119 --> 01:30:13.319
gotta practice that because it was.
It was hard for me because you know,

1263
01:30:13.439 --> 01:30:17.119
that's originally what I believe is when
you're out, you're out, there's

1264
01:30:17.199 --> 01:30:21.239
nothing. And then after that,
it was in my head that it was

1265
01:30:21.319 --> 01:30:26.399
just like I hope that there is
something, like I wanted there to be

1266
01:30:26.680 --> 01:30:30.319
home. I hoped for hope.
But it's just right, it's it's hard

1267
01:30:30.399 --> 01:30:33.239
to replace that. But like you
said, you know, having them live

1268
01:30:33.319 --> 01:30:38.359
on through memory and having her memory
live on through my heart, you know,

1269
01:30:38.479 --> 01:30:42.079
that's where I be at because yeah, yeah, like I said,

1270
01:30:42.079 --> 01:30:44.560
I was so confused because I don't
believe in ghosts. I don't believe in

1271
01:30:44.680 --> 01:30:47.640
spirits, but right, but also
think of it this way, her presence

1272
01:30:47.760 --> 01:30:51.640
is at You can also think of
it this way she's also not suffering.

1273
01:30:53.359 --> 01:30:57.640
She's also not somewhere hurting. She's
also not lost and alone. It is

1274
01:30:57.760 --> 01:31:02.920
simply there is she ceases to be
outside of what she left behind for you.

1275
01:31:03.319 --> 01:31:08.279
She's still here through her thoughts,
her memories, her pictures, her

1276
01:31:08.399 --> 01:31:11.760
videos, if she did you know, crafts, things like that. She's

1277
01:31:11.800 --> 01:31:16.279
still here on Earth, but she's
not anywhere existing in a less than favorable

1278
01:31:16.359 --> 01:31:23.279
way that a lot of religions want
you to believe. Yeah, you know,

1279
01:31:23.359 --> 01:31:26.319
And I think that's the pull too
with a lot of religions that I

1280
01:31:26.479 --> 01:31:30.079
was, you know, looking at, especially with not necessarily religion, but

1281
01:31:30.560 --> 01:31:35.159
monism or monism is you know,
that the belief of how our energy or

1282
01:31:35.239 --> 01:31:40.359
consciousness or something like that still continues
to exist on this planet in a way.

1283
01:31:41.000 --> 01:31:44.239
And I was almost leaning towards that, and I'm still debated with you

1284
01:31:44.319 --> 01:31:47.560
know, I don't believe in phenomenon. I address everything with reason and logic,

1285
01:31:48.159 --> 01:31:51.640
and it only goes so far before
there are more questions than answers,

1286
01:31:51.720 --> 01:31:57.880
you know, right right, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, I don't know

1287
01:31:57.960 --> 01:32:01.279
if I have talking to me,
of course, of course, I don't

1288
01:32:01.279 --> 01:32:05.399
know if that I have much more
to say that would add on to what

1289
01:32:05.600 --> 01:32:11.119
Sidney I think surmised wonderfully just that
you know, as those of us who

1290
01:32:11.199 --> 01:32:15.199
are deconstructed Christians, this is often
a belief that either doesn't get touched in

1291
01:32:15.319 --> 01:32:21.039
some ways or is just kind of
redone in a way that makes us feel

1292
01:32:21.119 --> 01:32:26.840
the best. And while it's important
to be honest with ourselves about what we

1293
01:32:26.920 --> 01:32:30.199
think is true about reality and what's
not true about reality, I also think

1294
01:32:30.239 --> 01:32:34.479
it's okay to believe that if this
person's life is meaningful to you in such

1295
01:32:34.479 --> 01:32:39.119
a way that there's a belief that
works for you better, that it is

1296
01:32:39.399 --> 01:32:45.920
okay. Like not everything has to
be reductivist or reductionist in some sort of

1297
01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:48.720
way. While there's a lot of
debate about afterlife and how people are and

1298
01:32:48.800 --> 01:32:56.239
whether physicalism or materialism is all there
is or et cetera, this is what

1299
01:32:56.520 --> 01:33:00.279
makes us human on some level,
Like we're losing that every day with a

1300
01:33:00.560 --> 01:33:02.640
but if we're going to have some
semblance of like human identity, it is

1301
01:33:02.800 --> 01:33:06.840
this. It is the idea that
there is some sort of dare I say,

1302
01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:13.079
divine spark within us that makes us
different from the rocks and the plants

1303
01:33:13.119 --> 01:33:18.000
and everything else in that person,
the way we are. Yeah, exactly,

1304
01:33:18.199 --> 01:33:21.359
So I say, this is one
of those moments where I'm okay,

1305
01:33:21.479 --> 01:33:26.920
it's just saying leave your truth.
You know. This is something I say

1306
01:33:26.920 --> 01:33:30.840
about everything, but this is one
of those things. Anyway, as,

1307
01:33:30.079 --> 01:33:32.279
was there anything else you wanted to
talk to us about before we let you

1308
01:33:32.319 --> 01:33:38.560
go? No? No, not
for the moment. But I think I'll

1309
01:33:38.600 --> 01:33:45.199
definitely become a subscriber and I'll call
if I have anymore. Yeah, thanks

1310
01:33:45.199 --> 01:33:47.079
for calling in. You appreciate it. Yes, thank you so much.

1311
01:33:47.159 --> 01:33:53.039
Thank you. I appreciate have a
good you too, You too. And

1312
01:33:53.319 --> 01:33:57.000
we're getting towards the tail end of
the show here. That was a great

1313
01:33:57.239 --> 01:34:00.079
call to in this. I like
to think that if I were to pass

1314
01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:03.600
that people who knew me, especially
people like you, Dan, I feel

1315
01:34:03.600 --> 01:34:08.720
like you would know what I thought
was bullshit and what I'd enjoy from here

1316
01:34:08.800 --> 01:34:10.800
on out. I feel like you'd
be able to look at something and say,

1317
01:34:11.000 --> 01:34:13.279
oh, my goodnessit he would hate
this, or Ah City would love

1318
01:34:13.319 --> 01:34:15.359
this, or something like that.
Yeah, I could. I could.

1319
01:34:15.600 --> 01:34:20.079
I could pontificate for fucking hours about
this ship. I don't know. We

1320
01:34:20.359 --> 01:34:24.279
don't have time to go into my
full thoughts, but uh, yeah,

1321
01:34:24.319 --> 01:34:29.159
I would definitely say. Oh yeah, Crystal Energies City would love that.

1322
01:34:29.520 --> 01:34:31.920
That's her favorite thing in the world. She loves talking about it. She

1323
01:34:32.039 --> 01:34:39.079
loves talking about that stuff. She
read my favorite black licorice, licorice probably

1324
01:34:39.840 --> 01:34:44.239
devout Christian. Yes, yeah,
yeah, so I'll have an accurate picture

1325
01:34:44.239 --> 01:34:47.000
of you for sure. But anyway, jokes aside real quick, like,

1326
01:34:47.079 --> 01:34:50.520
we have a super chat from blind
limey is a member for six months,

1327
01:34:50.600 --> 01:34:57.279
gave five dollars that said Maverick encapsulated
how we can still be influenced by those

1328
01:34:57.840 --> 01:35:03.039
we've lost quote talk to me goose, which, uh that's a top Gun

1329
01:35:03.159 --> 01:35:09.640
reference. I'm pretty sure. Thank
you Brian Lovey for Top Gun. I've

1330
01:35:09.720 --> 01:35:13.159
never actually seen the original top Okay, so I haven't either. I know

1331
01:35:13.279 --> 01:35:15.880
the characters names, and that's why
I recognize that. Pretty I didn't see

1332
01:35:15.880 --> 01:35:19.239
the new one either, but I
should talk about that. Oh we have

1333
01:35:19.359 --> 01:35:21.800
a few more too than I actually
have two more. Yeah, yeah,

1334
01:35:21.840 --> 01:35:25.840
we have two more. We got
one from Miranda Rensberger, who is member

1335
01:35:25.920 --> 01:35:30.399
for one month, gave five dollars
and said Sydney's Bob Ross is such a

1336
01:35:30.520 --> 01:35:35.840
relief after that call. That's true, I really liked yours. I feel

1337
01:35:35.840 --> 01:35:41.159
like we all just needed a moment
to be thankful and peaceful. Yeah,

1338
01:35:42.319 --> 01:35:46.199
yeah, I really enjoyed that.
I think it says there might be another

1339
01:35:46.239 --> 01:35:49.039
one. I see one right here, read the other one. Yes,

1340
01:35:49.079 --> 01:35:53.359
please? So mc beard gave five
dollars, Thank you so much, mc

1341
01:35:53.439 --> 01:35:56.279
beard, And they said, I
think Howard was trying to make a point

1342
01:35:56.359 --> 01:36:01.119
that each generation contains the subsequent generation
as an ilk received attempt to disprove evolution.

1343
01:36:02.039 --> 01:36:05.039
Yes, yes, I do think
I took his comment a little literally

1344
01:36:05.119 --> 01:36:09.039
when he was talking about eggs.
I think I was thinking he was asking

1345
01:36:09.119 --> 01:36:12.520
if like his grandma's eggs like ended
up in his sister or something like that.

1346
01:36:13.359 --> 01:36:15.319
But it took a little bit,
but I think we got there.

1347
01:36:15.840 --> 01:36:17.399
Yeah, okay, yeah that was
from a way earlier. I should we

1348
01:36:17.439 --> 01:36:20.279
should have read that earlier. That's
my bad. But yeah, no,

1349
01:36:20.520 --> 01:36:26.880
there is like like like generative AI
like proves that this is wrong, Like

1350
01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:29.680
you try to make new generations of
a based on the onlyin and they're not

1351
01:36:29.760 --> 01:36:32.399
exactly the same when you do these
like training methods. I don't know if

1352
01:36:32.439 --> 01:36:39.479
we if that happens in such as
relatively simple CYPSTMS compared to like how fucking

1353
01:36:39.600 --> 01:36:43.359
DNA works, Like you don't think
that there's going to be iterations between each

1354
01:36:43.439 --> 01:36:46.720
generation as far as like gene genes
that change versus don't. I guess some

1355
01:36:46.800 --> 01:36:53.560
people have an idea that your exact
DNA is just change is passed on every

1356
01:36:53.640 --> 01:36:57.479
time. I just I really think, I really think that men should take

1357
01:36:57.840 --> 01:37:00.039
a class on women's reproductive systems.
Really think it would be a good thing.

1358
01:37:00.479 --> 01:37:04.920
The thoughts and opinions I've heard on
how Ovary's work concerned me greatly,

1359
01:37:05.279 --> 01:37:08.800
and I just think it's a good
thing to read up on. Christian or

1360
01:37:08.840 --> 01:37:12.720
not, he did start with the
eggs thing and that that threw us off.

1361
01:37:13.079 --> 01:37:17.680
It did think it did. But
anyway, man, I've I've man,

1362
01:37:17.680 --> 01:37:20.640
it's been a minute since I've hosted
talk to you than I've really enjoyed

1363
01:37:20.680 --> 01:37:27.119
today's show today, really really good. You should come to the after show

1364
01:37:27.279 --> 01:37:30.760
on the Discord's Clash a CD Discord
if you want to talk to some folks

1365
01:37:31.640 --> 01:37:35.720
on there. And so you want
to hear my back history with Brett I.

1366
01:37:36.000 --> 01:37:39.359
You know, I said I was
gonna have time. It's been a

1367
01:37:39.359 --> 01:37:41.399
minute. I'm gonna come on for
just a little bit. I do ask

1368
01:37:41.439 --> 01:37:43.640
some stuff I gotta do today,
but you know, I'll be on there

1369
01:37:43.680 --> 01:37:46.479
to Sydney will be on there,
so it's not recorded, uh for show

1370
01:37:46.520 --> 01:37:49.319
purposes or anything. So feel free
just jump on just hang out with us

1371
01:37:49.439 --> 01:37:54.199
for a little bit, because I
think we'll both be there. The prompt

1372
01:37:54.279 --> 01:37:59.159
for this week is why are people
really leaving the church? And so replying

1373
01:37:59.199 --> 01:38:01.079
the comments in tune in at the
beginning of next week's episode. Do you

1374
01:38:01.199 --> 01:38:08.960
hear the top three answers on that? Please be serious? Only serious,

1375
01:38:09.319 --> 01:38:14.479
serious inquiries own, Please no jokes
allowed? Just kidding. No, I

1376
01:38:14.520 --> 01:38:17.319
don't. I don't want to like
there's I think that's there's there's good criticism

1377
01:38:17.479 --> 01:38:19.239
there. No, that was a
great critics. No, that was a

1378
01:38:19.279 --> 01:38:23.560
great critique. It's a good critique. I think. I don't want to

1379
01:38:23.600 --> 01:38:26.720
dismiss it. No, no,
not at all. But no, only

1380
01:38:26.880 --> 01:38:30.960
serious. But also I'm going to
make jokes because that's al Yeah, we're

1381
01:38:30.079 --> 01:38:33.720
just maybe we're just not serious people. You know me, I am a

1382
01:38:33.880 --> 01:38:36.840
very serious person. You're No,
You're the most serious person. That's why

1383
01:38:36.880 --> 01:38:40.000
I got fired from the Second City. Just kidding. I never got fired.

1384
01:38:40.000 --> 01:38:41.840
I still work there. I'm on
their faculty page. But it's a

1385
01:38:41.880 --> 01:38:44.079
terrible picture. Please don't look at
it. Oh my god. Yeah.

1386
01:38:45.159 --> 01:38:47.920
Uh. Anyway, Cindy, you
want to do some love rings? Yes?

1387
01:38:48.119 --> 01:38:50.319
Do you want to do them this
time? Do you know how?

1388
01:38:50.399 --> 01:38:54.119
Do you know how to? Can't? I don't know how to do them?

1389
01:38:54.239 --> 01:38:58.840
So you start by stomping your feet, okay, and then clap your

1390
01:38:58.840 --> 01:39:01.399
hands a little bit. They say, oooga, chaga, No, just

1391
01:39:01.479 --> 01:39:04.439
kidding, I just you just do
a little bit of this motion right here?

1392
01:39:04.520 --> 01:39:10.560
Ready? One, two, three, love rings? Love rings going

1393
01:39:10.640 --> 01:39:15.840
out to everybody watching at home,
haters and lovers. You're all welcome here,

1394
01:39:15.920 --> 01:39:19.640
baby, yeah, so we appreciate
it, and thank you to the

1395
01:39:19.960 --> 01:39:26.840
folks that called in today as well. Calling in is a thing to do

1396
01:39:27.039 --> 01:39:29.760
that it gives us the content.
So you know, if you want to

1397
01:39:29.800 --> 01:39:33.119
see different kinds of calls, come
and call in and change the show that

1398
01:39:33.239 --> 01:39:35.159
you want to see it. But
we had some really good ones today,

1399
01:39:35.159 --> 01:39:39.520
So thank you to everybody being here
and folks in the live chat. Thank

1400
01:39:39.560 --> 01:39:42.880
you, guys, and thanks to
Yesman Meadow Flower member for two years who

1401
01:39:42.960 --> 01:39:45.840
just donated two pounds literally as we
speak, and they said God is dead

1402
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:50.359
and I am not into necrophilia,
Sunshine. That's a that's glad you're not

1403
01:39:50.439 --> 01:39:54.600
into necrophilia. I'm glad you're not
in necrophilia too. Okay, let's could

1404
01:39:54.600 --> 01:40:00.159
be I'm a cease love rings casts
a cease cease and decis there we go?

1405
01:40:00.279 --> 01:40:02.319
Okay, got it all right?
Cool? Thank you, Thank you

1406
01:40:02.960 --> 01:40:08.279
crew for assistance in the lovering ritual. And last but not least, Sydney,

1407
01:40:08.720 --> 01:40:12.039
we should close this out by saying, if you do believe, we

1408
01:40:12.239 --> 01:40:15.119
don't hate you, We're just not
convinced. Thanks everybody, We'll see you

1409
01:40:15.199 --> 01:40:41.680
next week. We want the truth, So watch Truth Wanted live Friday at

1410
01:40:41.760 --> 01:40:46.159
seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot
cc, slash y t tw and call

1411
01:40:46.239 --> 01:40:54.079
into the show at five one two
two, or connect to the show online

1412
01:40:54.319 --> 01:40:57.159
at tiny dot CC slash call tw