Hello, I'm Martin Willis, your host and welcome to the show podcast UFO
and weekly show. I have a lot of great fans from over the years
and I want to thank you all for watching the show, and I want
to thank the people that support the show, and whether you're supporting me or
not, I do thank you. And our blog this week is there is
no blog. Charles is in a play opening this week, so he wasn't
able to put out a blog, so there's still plenty to read over a
podcastufo dot com where we have new blogs generally every single week and they turn
into an audio blog and audio podcast that comes out roughly once a week or
so. We'll get those out and Crossfire this week UAP Crossfire has been canceled
this I've been moving from one place to another and there's a lot going on
with everyone, so we can't run the show this week, but we'll be
back next week and soon we will have I believe, hopefully Danny Sheanon with
also with Kevin Wright on the avisci Adits can't remember the name of his group,
but it's UAP Transparency. It's basically the subtitle of it. They'll both
be on Crossfire coming up soon, So keep in mind that's every Thursday night
generally speaking, except for this week. So our guest tonight Jim Low.
He has done a lot of research into what it would be like to have
a UFO briefing book, a guide for congress or someone if they were looking
into this topic in a serious way. And he has some UFO encounters when
he was young, and I'm going to bring him in now, and welcome
to the show, Jim. I thank you very much, Martin. And
as the watcher of YouTube can see, you're in sunny weather out in California,
which is a nice area to be not always. You didn't get caught
up in the floods you were saying, that's great. No, no,
I was. I'm in an area in the mountains that normally gets the flooding
bit the coast got it this time. Ah, all right, that's good.
So so thank you for you actually reached out to me you had written
this book. I think it's an interesting book. And what I guess I
want to ask you what inspired you to write this? In the beginning,
well, I'm a retired attorney and for twenty five years I was going to
retire and write an election law book. And then on my sixty fifth birthday
December seventeenth, two thousand and seven. December sixteen, twenty seventeen, the
Politico and New York Times came out with the three videos. Wow that was
your birthday. Yeah, sixty fifth birthday. Now I'll always remember your birthday
because I remember that date, me and Beethoven. But it made me think
about what I was doing. Having practice government law for close to forty years,
I kept my experiences pretty much to myself because representing politicians, it's not
the best thing to do to talk about UFO encounters. It could be used
against you in the courtroom. So having practiced election law and represented local and
regional governments, I'd always leaned that way. But my interest has always been
something I've been kept to myself. And then when that came out, I
saw that as a trigger, which it certainly did trigger things into, you
know, the possibility disclosure, and having worked with hundreds of elected officials over
the years, I know what they go through and what they perceive of the
world around them, and jumping off into a issue like UFOs. It happened
to Dennis Cascinage, you know, back in I think nineteen ninety two,
and it killed his political career, yes, And so I saw this as
a way to sort of educate elected officials primarily, And so I wrote the
UFO Briefing Book, A Congressional Guide to the UAP Phenomena, back in twenty
twenty one six months. I usually got it published four months before the OH
the Director of National Intelligence issued their first preliminary assessment. And what I wanted
to do is predict what they were going to say and then explain to members
of Congress what would happen if they followed certain rules or procedures that would help
them sort of peel back the onions. And so I was writing one book
on UFOs at the time, and I dropped it and picked up this book
and wrote it in six months and put it out. Most of the copies
that I didn't I didn't market it. I went on two podcasts and figure,
this is a waste of time. And because at the time it wasn't
it wasn't as big an issue. You know, the UFO community as well,
where was going on, but the general public didn't. And so what
I did was I put something together that would be more aimed at elected officials
and what they can do within their role. And I distributed over two hundred
copies to members of the National security committees in Congress, and from the feedback
I've gotten, it was well received, and Harry Reid sent me a personal
note he was retired at the time, saying that it was done well and
that he was happy for my interest in this vital subject. And so while
I was writing, I was sending them the books, I wasn't getting a
response. And I don't live in Washington or play the you know, play
along Washington, you know, the typical You've had people on the deal in
Washington. But I was looking at it as an outsider from the political perspective,
how they would go about this, And so I predicted that the intelligence
and the military would slow walk anything. They would be like pulling teeth,
and that they'd have to boost the protections for whistleblowers, put together doc or
legislation to allow the release of NBA's non disclosure agreements. I have a friend,
Robert Salas, Robert Salas, who was forced to sign one of those
agreements and never seen a copy of it, and so you know it.
So I started down that road and made some recommendations, and so far most
of the recommendations I've put together have been put into law. Now whether that's
coincidence or not, I don't know, but I know I was along that
path. So I have a new book out now, Threat to the Body
Politic From Food Fighters to UAP, and that's also available at bookstores in Amazon.
And in that book, I try to go back to the beginnings of
what the the not the not the UFO policy is, whether they're real or
not because of people have done that, and I went back and looked at
how the process began that led to the stigma that we all feel about the
subject, and centered on the Robertson panel in nineteen fifty three. And there's
been a lot written on the Robertson panel, but mostly saying that they got
the UFO issue wrong. And I ignored that part of it pretty much and
looked at what they did that sort of start the debunking process. And so
I traced through declassified records and stories mostly from government officials, either state,
local, or federal, how they were cast and treated very unfairly. Now,
your typical person who saw UFO back then, it was usually just lights
in the sky. But when you had someone like Rex Heflin in nineteen sixty
five, who saw a structured craft very close took three polaroids at a time
when trying to fake a polaroid was near impossible for a traffic engineer. Un
let's let alone someone in Hollywood that in the way he was approached, the
way they stole his photographs. I found a pattern of these kinds of things
in the records. Many of the records were like I found civil rights violations
in the FBI records committed by the Air Force, but the FBI didn't have
records about their violations. Those I found in CIA records, And so a
lot of cross checking of records, I was able to come up with a
series of they couldn't be coincidences. There were just so many times where they
people would approach the government say I've got the there's the famous picture. I've
been on that street looking in that direction. There's a big shopping mall there
now, but I don't tell. Yeah, it's like everything else in California,
it's a mall. Yeah, this is the one right outside of his
pickup truck window. Yeah. First first polaroid. I believe the last one,
I don't the last one, I don't see it. It shows like
a streak of smoke if I remember, right, Yep, a smoke ring
that he never showed around. Yeah, yeah, he had a smoke ring
and his co workers laughed at it, so he never showed it around.
So when the quote unquote nor read officers show up and he gave his photographs
to them, they disappeared for twenty two years, and they returned him to
it when he was dying of cancer in retirement. And so someone had to
hold on to those photographs for twenty two years, twenty seven years almost actually.
And so I found a pattern of these kinds of things where your typical
person was who took a picture of a UFO. They showed a structured craft,
not lights in the sky. But you know, the type of pictures
that would not be considered swamp gas, you know there, there wouldn't be
an explanation for that. They would take these pictures, and most of them
they had no interest in the UFO subject before they took the pictures. Each
one of them approached the government to say, I've got these, do you
want them? And I want them back? And they take them and steal
them, never give them back. And Rex Heffeln's case, they claimed he
was a hoaxer. How many hoaxers turned over their originals to the government.
Yeah, that's right. This is the smoke, that's the smoke ring.
So uh yes, and they're in this there for years, they were in
the safe. I'm trying to remembers of female ufologists, really well known in
California. I can't remember her name. I spoke with her daughter. Her
daughter was on my show. Anyway, they were in They're in their safe.
They're in the safe in their house. Really okay those images, yes,
yeah, yeah, I'm drying a blanket in her name too. But
yeah, she's really well known. She passed away I think maybe five or
six years ago. Very well known. She wrote the book Firestorm about all
right, I'm going to look her up just because I want to pay good
tribute to her. But anyway, Uh so, let's talk about you.
You had you had some sightings yourself, right, Oh yes, I'm what
is generically called an experiencer, and so I've had experiences pretty much my whole
life. And first one I remember, I was five and a half years
old. It was the weekend before kindergarten started, and I was out in
the country with my dad and my aunt and uncle and their family camping,
and I was I was five and a half and the next youngest person was
about thirteen, so there was a big gap between everyone, and I was
very hyperactive, and so they told me, you know, why don't you
just look up at the sky and look for Sputnik, you know, to
keep me busy. And while they were sitting another campfire, drinking and telling
stories or and I looked off to a cow pasture that was about five hundred
to one thousand feet away from us, and I saw this object that was
probably the size of a full moon, and it was dripping metal off of
it. It looked like it was and it was shooting off sparks. In
fact, I talked to Colonel Halt about it because it looked remarkably like the
one at Rambush and Forest right. He said, it looked like an eyeball,
and it was dripping magna magna exactly. And this was late summer and
the cow pasture was dry, and so whatever it was, it didn't,
you know, it didn't catch fire. So I remember looking at it and
then looking back at my family, and they were all just staring with their
mouths open, dumbfounded. Later on, I sort of compared it to a
deep Stephen Spielberg movie where they always had normal people just looking perplexed, and
it reminded me of a few scenes and close encounters. But I'm looking at
them, and that's the last thing I remember. And I remember waking up
the next morning and there and coming out outside from the cabin, the rough
cabin were the family was working on, and uh, everyone's sitting here on
the campfire, having breakfast, drinking coffee and talking about the comet they saw.
So, being a five and a half year old, I thought commas
just flew over cow pastures and you know, and uh, so you know,
I go, wow, and now I've seen a comet. So the
next morning is Monday, and I'm going off to kindergarten. I think that's
one of the reasons I remember this so well, because it was at that
time in my life. Whenever you know, you started, you remember,
you know, long long bits of time. And I asked my dad what
he thought when that neat seeing the comet, and my dad said, I
don't know what you're talking about. And so I just sort of dropped it
went off to kindergarten, and so later on, you know, I'm I'm
in high school and then going into college, and I still have this impression
that comments are really big things that you know, stop and everything else.
And I knew from science books that that didn't make sense. And then I
actually saw my first comment when I was, you know, in my teens
or early twenties, and I remember how disappointed I was. I go,
that's not big. That didn't have metal dripping off of it. And it's
funny how I kept that that not only that memory, but that understanding despite
the fact what I learned in science. Well, before you move on to
anything else, I'd like to tell you about an encounter that was told to
me by someone not really into the UFO world or whatever. It's just someone
I know in the outside world. She's actually an author of like antique books
and things like that. And she was a girl scout and they were on
an island on a lake and they were camping out. They had the campfire
going, and they saw this thing come over them. She said, it
kind of looked like the size of the moon type of thing, and it
came over them and then it appeared to be right over them, and she
said. The next thing she remembers she woke up in the morning in her
tent and was asking, you know, like the the different people, hey,
what about what we saw last night? And they said they didn't remember
or they didn't know anything. And then to the leader, the girl Scout
leader said, don't you even think about talking about it. That's what she
said to her. So that was her impression. I mean, there is
some similarities here. That's why I thought i'd bring it up. That was
no, it's good exactly. You know. About twelve twenty twelve, twenty
thirteen, I decided I was just gonna sort of open up my mind and
talk to people about this, and so I started going to conferences and what
I found is listening to speakers was nice, but talking to other experiences.
Were there ones that have had these experiences? I joined IVONN. Smith's Oh
Yeah SERO group, the Close Encounters Resource Organization, and I've learned more from
other experiencers than I've learned from all the books and all the podcasts. No
fans, but in fact, probably a lot of your listeners fit in the
same category as me. You know and and you learned so much and you
stop being surprised about similarities like that, right, Yeah, Yeah, I
do think it's funny. Up. You hear a lot of people say either
they don't talk about it the next day or people don't remember, which is
really you know, I mean, it's such a dramatic, you know,
situation. You know. I recently listened to the Aligash, Yeah, the
Alagash incident. The two it was Jim Wiener and Charlie Foltz that we're talking
about it, and I got to meet them at that conference they're at.
But I was listening to it again and it's basically the same thing. You
know, it happened to them and they just like move on, and boy,
that's strange. The fire had burned down and if anyone wants to check
out that case, it's a fascinating case. And Eyes on Cinema on YouTube
has posted the conference that I was at where they spoke. It's very interesting.
Their whole life all for them. Their lives changed and they never really
realized they were abducted until you know, ten years after, but their whole
life's changed, and their artwork. They were all artists or artwork all changed
dramatically and since that encounter, which is another fascinating thing when people's lives change.
Yvonne Smith has written a book called Coronado, Oh Got a Joint Abduction?
And the day after they all the group left the conference and drove back
to Los Angeles and different cars. They were meeting at a restaurant up the
coast towards LA and they were most mostly irritated with each other and didn't want
to talk about it, and a lot of them never talked to each other
again they were before, and so something drove them apart. How about that?
Yeah, I remember her talking about that. I had her on the
show years ago when I think actually before she wrote the book, or maybe
about that same time. But I know the hotel. I used to go
there when I lived in the in San Diego area years ago. Beautiful,
beautiful place. That was a strange encounter. That's another one to look up.
This is a question we have doctor Richards in about every show. Thank
you for the questions. Do you have any theories about what the visitors are
up to? I think my thinking is they're not here to take us over,
because let's assume I don't believe this is the case. But let's assume
they got here in World War Two the food fighters started showing out. You
know, if you're gonna somebody, you don't wait eighty years. Still,
they get better able to defend themselves, and so I don't think they're out
to overtly do that. But I think it's a mixed bag, my guest,
is a mixed bag of different entities from different locations, perhaps not all
from this dimension. And I think that some of them mean well and others
are probably just uh. In my book, Threat to the Body Politic,
in the last chapter, I talk about there are probably four different excuse me,
there are probably four different categories. There's a because I'm right that book
I wrote to inform Congress, and they don't have the knowledge of your listener
base. You know, they're learning this from scratch, right, And so
the first possible is hostility, and I don't for the reason I said,
I don't think they're hostile in that regard. The next is transactional, that
they're here for resources, just like you know Chevron goes to Nigeria, you
know, to drill for oil. You know, they're doing that kind of
thing. That's one possibility, some of them could just be here for purely
transactional purposes, and possibly the abduction program is that, and the hybridization program,
then there could be it could be uncaring. A third category that they're
just here to observe because we've got nuclear weapons and we're trying to launch into
space and so you know, would you want to keep an eye on the
local civilization like that? And then the third is the there that they're positive,
and a fourth is that they're positive and if they were, are they
really going to just show up and say hey, we're here. Hi.
You know, no, they're not. They're probably protocols in place to keep
societies like ours from not going through the right steps. And uh, you
know, just you don't hand you don't hand people, you know in the
Middle Ages nuclear weapons, yeah, you know, you don't give the machine
guns. You know, you don't you know, if we were to go
back in time, so they would you know, I'm not just taking this
from Star Trek. I really think there has to be some sort of ground
rules that that civilizations have when they approach a society like ours, because want
of them to develop naturally where they're not just going to be given something ahead
of time and jump into space and start trying to take over other planets and
and you know, once you achieve that nuclear stage. See notice that all
you know, the biggest portion of our understanding of UFOs comes from the nineteen
forties on. And so what were we doing then? We're putting together a
nuclear weapon? And so even if they're supportive of US, I would think
that they would sit back and wait, and that's what they've been doing.
Yeah, yeah, this there hasn't There hasn't been a lot of interference.
You know, that is a question a lot of people ask, you know,
like what why don't they show themselves, you know, show themselves on
the White House lawn, blah blah blah. You hear that all the time,
things like that, And you know, I think there's definitely fears involved
here, like what do they want? You know, why are they even
here to begin with? You know, that type of thing whatever they are.
And I think you're right too, I don't. I don't think it's
one just one type of situation, one type of entity whatever that is showing
up here. I think it could be a lot of different things. And
you know, there's there's always the argument from skeptics that they could never get
here, that's it's too far to travel and all that. But obviously whatever
is getting here has figured out how to get here wherever they're from. You
know, there's just too many things that have been witnessed to say otherwise,
you know, at this point, So, so, how do you think
the government has been handling the situation? That's a schizophrenic answer. I'm expectedly
disappointed in the defense and intelligence communities, but I'm very happy with how Congress
has handled this. You know, until this last year, you haven't had
a lot of pushback, and the recent pushback. I don't want to go
down that rabbit hole, but when was the last time you ever heard Congress
passing laws three years in a row on the same subject. They usually they
usually get it done in one year. And if it you know, and
I've worked on legislation for years, what you do is you put together a
package to address whatever the issue is. It takes compromises, you finally put
it together. Everyone's happy, you pass it, you cut the ribbon.
You know, you you have your you know, congratulations. Then you go
on to the next topic. Here. You know, occasionally you'll bring back
like curative legislation. It's called where you made a mistake. But both in
the Trump administration and the Biden administration, you did not have overt pushback of
the of the Congress on these issues. The pushback came from below. And
so look at it this way. I think you know right now, you
know the Trump administration, the actual presidential administ the Office of the President,
UH, didn't really push back to this. And then when Biden came in,
you don't have the same kind of pushbacks. He signed all the bills.
UH. In the first bill, he issued a sign statement that said
that the National Defense Authorization Act of twenty twenty two, adopted in twenty twenty
one, they always do it a year ahead of the fiscal year. That
particular signing statement pointed to the Defense Act, which is a massive bill,
and said we're going to comply with requests or information for Congress as long as
it doesn't reveal battle plans or the names of confidential sources or that kind of
thing. But he never applied it to UFOs. In fact, none of
the examples they listed they were all about the Afghanistan War and the Iraq War,
and also Central Command and their battle plans for some reason, but nothing
about UFOs. And so you know, you've got Joe Biden, who's the
Senate guy. I mean, that's his that's its foundation, is the Senate.
And you've got pretty much the leading group on this has been the Select
Committee on Intelligence in the Senate and they've been passing out this legislation on seventeen
zero votes. I mean, they can't agree that the sun is coming up
tomorrow is unanimous vote, you know. And so we're talking about a unique
window here where as long as it stays by partisan we could make tremendous progress.
I mean we've made They've made more progress in the last five years than
they've made the last eighty. And yeah, so you know, you've got
a core of people. And the interesting thing is, if it was just
the national security people, you're going to have or senators or congressman, they're
going to vote know one the bill because or try to take out the UFO
stuff because they think it's crazy. Nobody did that until you know, this
recent thing here, you don't have that. So you know, when you're
talking about you know, especially the Defense and Intelligence committees, they're bipartisan.
You know, they have people from both parties, and so, you know,
if you're a rank and file congressman and you're trying to figure out,
what about this UFO bill in the National Defense Authorization Act, and so they're
going to ask one of their colleagues. It's you know, from their party
that agrees with them. You know, if you're a Republican, you're going
to ask Mike Gallagher, why do you have this crazy stuff in here?
He'd say, leave it alone. I know what I'm talking about. You
know, they're you're they know so much more than they're telling us right now
while they're still because they're still trying to figure it out. They can't tell
us at every stage, but there comes a point they're going to have to
tell us. And probably what my suggestion is that they do internal briefings on
each step. Yes they're real, Yes they're from some place else. No
they're not from Russia. No they're not from China, they're from someplace else.
And then next step do another set of brief But they've been doing that
since nineteen forty seven though, you know, with the Twining Memo, and
you know, oh, I agree, this is not fictitious. This is
real. It's not visionary, you know, I mean it keeps. And
again in fifty three fifty, right after the fifty two UFO flap, you
know, they came out again and basically saying it's real, you know,
but they got to I guess they have to reinforce that. So I'm sorry,
continue on. I just no, no, no, no, that's
an excellent point. In nineteen fifty five, Senator Richard Russell, who the
Russell Office building is named after, was on a train going from Russia to
Czechoslovakia on a mission, you know, for the for the Senate, you
know, an investigation tour, and a classic Billy Meyer UFO flew by the
plane and a Russian official came in and shut all the curtains. So they
were press in the car, in the train car, and so later they
you know, it got out what happened, and so a lot of people
were asked questions, and so one of a reporter asked Richard, Senator Russell
about it, and he said, I've been advised by the you know,
parts of the government that are working on this, and it is best not
for me to talk about it now. Okay. That was nineteen fifty five.
The Senate until twenty seventeen eighteen, it wasn't talking about it at all.
And so this to me, that's the difference between now and back then
is you have Congress that is interested in it, and you know, if
you're a whistleblower, are you going to blow the whistle if there's no one
going to back you up? And now we've got someone that's backing them up.
And so I know Robert Sallas has already spoken to Ero about his incident,
the Malstrom UFO incident, And it galls me because Sean Kirkpatrick comes out
after retires and says there's no evidence, no first hand witnesses. Yeah,
and he and Sean Kirkpatrick talked to Bob sellas I know he did, and
same as I brought this up many times in the show. That also,
some of that's been on the show. I'm a friend with is Mario Woods,
who have talked four hours to them, you know, four hours to
be exact, four hours and nineteen minutes. He always puts that in,
but yeah, you know, first hand witness again, yeah, so no
first hand witness is no evidence. Yeah, so I think Arrow was just
is just window dressing, you know, we'll see though maybe the undernew leadership
it'll be different, but I don't have any real hopes for it. Well,
we'll find out in June of twenty twenty four when they release, and
they will. They won't release it on time because they haven't released anything on
time since Aro took over. But whenever they released the history of UFO uh
information, Uh, then we'll know whether they're they're serious actors or not.
But see, you can come forward now, and you know Deve Grush and
there are many others besides him that have come forward that we don't know about
yet. And uh so they they have to educate themselves because if they tried
to do this, if the Republicans tried to do this alone or the Democrats,
the other side's going to go, you're crazy. You know, they're
gonna they've got to do it together, and considering the political environment, and
it's difficult to do things together, and so they've they've got to figure out
a way. And so my goal has been, uh, well, I
haven't worked in Congress myself. I've worked with the elected officials and for decades
and sit down with them and how do you want to do this? Well,
if you do it that way, you know you're gonna it's all gonna
fall apart. But if you try this, maybe it'll work. And you
know, I'm not always right, but uh, I see a process that
needs to unfold. And so besides my book, I've been writing a series.
I've started a series of blog about how they should release, how they
should start the disclosure process. And uh, I'll like the book, I'll
package it up and and send it to Congress, and uh, you know,
if I'm wrong and there's better way to do it, then that's what
they have staff for. And they have they have good staff on this.
They have a few staff members that are handling this and they will go unsung
and they you know, without them, know, you know, Marco Rubio
and Mark Warner, the two heads of the Senate Intel Committee, would not
be stepping forward. One of the things I've thought about this, and I
don't know, just trying to get your opinion on it, is that I
think they don't know the whole picture. And because they don't know the whole
picture, then they can't say that they can protect us from it, right,
whatever it is. And so that's why I think disclosure is going to
be very difficult for our government to actually come all out and say, look,
we are being visited and we don't know exactly what it is. So
I don't know, you know, I don't know if we'll ever get to
that point, because you know, it's only my opinion. But I don't
really think they know the whole picture. Oh. I agree with you on
that they're learning the picture, and they're learning the picture, but what we
don't know is how much they've learned into the puzzle. Like I said at
the beginning, it's an onion. And my guess is there a layer five
of forty and I'm hoping we can keep this going till they get to layer
forty so they can do it all, you know. But I agree with
you there. You know, if if if they don't know, if they're
worried about how stilly, they're not going to bring it out. Yeah,
especially Yeah, this just put up a couple of questions here. Has a
Disclosure Act been watered down? Yes? Yeah, quite a bit, actually,
yeah quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah. You know, timber Chet's
done an awful lot for UFO disclosure. But when you compared his bill in
the House to the Mike Rounds Chuck Schuber bill in the Senate. I mean
it's a qualitative difference. And so near the end of the session last year,
Chuck Schumer and Mike Rounds both came on the floor at the same time
and talked about their bill that wasn't part of the package, and in a
colloqu way back and forth, which of the likes I've never seen of Republicans
Democrats. They both said that they're going to press forward and try in this
year to get it adopted. And the difference between the two bills is that
under the House version, a lot of the power for this is left with
the agencies themselves that hold the records. When you have an independent commission that
is vetted and uh chosen by the entire Senate, you're going to have a
better chance with this independent group. Considering now this, I'll you can,
you can yell at me, and I'll stop, but talk a little bit
about the legal stuff. The standard in the bill is that an independent group
must be convinced by clear and convincing evidence that the record should stay secret.
Clear and convincing evidence is the highest civil standard there is. It's not beyond
a reasonable doubt in the criminal setting. But it takes a hell of a
lot of evidence, you know, to be able to say that. So
you know, if there are you know, breakthroughs on you know, propulsion
or you know you don't, we don't also turn over nuclear weapons, how
to make those you know, so the those should stay you know, you
know, as classified as possible. But you know the fact that you know,
pictures like the one you showed of Rex Hefflin took, you know,
those need to be released NDAs if the if Bob Sella says I'll waive my
privacy rights and you can release the NDA, then it's released. You know,
you don't give the military the chance to say no first, and this
commission would have done that. And just by the fact that it was a
bill by Mike Grounds, you know, a quality senator, you know,
high up in the ranks of the Republican side, and Chuck Schumer, I
cannot remember the last time the majority leader or minority leader in either House actually
sponsored bill. You don't see Nancy Pelosi's name on bills. And Chuck Schumer
did this himself. That is, that doesn't get that means that Biden didn't
have a problem with it because the Democratic leader of the Senate would not put
a bill out that makes the president look bad of his own party. That
yeah. Yeah, And so the combination Chuck Schuber, Mitch McConnell, when
he started having some of his episodes, uh you know where he couldn't talk
for a while, he started delegating work, and Mike Grounds ended up with
the UAP portfolio on this. At least, this is my outside reading.
And Chuck Schumer and Mike Rounds are also going to be the two point people
for both parties in the Senate on AI. So look at that. You've
got UFOs and AI. I mean, can you think of two future things
bigger than those two? And the same two guys on both sides of the
aisle are working together. Yeah. Now, they'll still argue about abortion and
gun control and you know, the border and all that, and we can't
wish everyone to be kumbaya, but on this issue, you know, if
you step out and you ain't going to stay, they're jumping off a bridge
that they don't know where the bottom is. It's better to do it together,
yeah, then separately. Yeah, that's right. I was actually at
the hearing this last July and it was really very I was so second to
last person in the door with my producer and Chrislito, so we were all
in there watching and it was really amazing to see what is it AOC on
one side and Matt Gates on the other side, and them all just getting
along and discussing, you know, the topic and having you know, it
was a clear bipartisan you know, you know issue that they were really looking
and taking seriously and working together. So that was Yeah, that was really
very I felt it was very historic. It was and and there wouldn't be
another subject whether it happened, I don't think bro. And you know,
there was I've said this before in the show. There was over a thousand
people that showed up for those thirty seats, and I was there at five
forty am. I would have never gotten in, you know, at five
forty and you're the last two people in. Yeah, but there were people
that cut in front of us. Quite a few. Oh okay, yeah,
certain people, George Knapp, Jeremy Corbell, you know, people like
that. Yeah, well, Georgia is a true journalist. But uh yeah,
they should they should wait their turn. But except for Virginia Fox,
the congresswoman from North Carolina, she bashed spend her five minutes bashing the Biden
administration over the Chenese balloon incident. Besides that, I mean, it was
amazingly bipartisan, amazingly And you know, you have to remember that's the committee,
the Hunter Biden Committee. I mean, yeah, yep, you know,
that's the Biden Crime Family Committee. Yet Chuck Schumer, when he put
his bill together with Mike Grounds, the overseer of that, the committee that
would review the documents to see whether they should be released. The oversight by
the House was the over House Oversight Committee. So the most contentious committee on
the other side was written into the bill in the UFOs having oversight authority because
if Matt gaz complained that they didn't have access to secrets, you know,
at that hearing. And the reason they didn't is because when they adopted the
original bill in twenty twenty one, they listed who the appropriate committees were to
receive classified information, and they're up to twelve, but Oversight isn't on the
twelve. So there are already almost two hundred members of Congress out of the
five hundred and thirty five that are on these committees. So you've got a
core. You got about forty percent of Congress already that are They may all
show up for all the hearings on this or the class sided briefings, but
you're talking about a big group of people, so it's not a question of
you know, educating everyone. It will take a year and a half.
They can they can spread out pretty quick and educate him. And when you
start seeing briefings like that, you not die. Disclosures coming right, Yeah,
I hope. So I know that Luella Suondo had said twenty twenty four
is the big year, whatever that means. Well, I've been communicating not
with him but directly, but with his wife, and I know that as
soon as his new book comes out, he'll be coming on podcasts again,
and I would just oh good. I'd like to like to hear more of
what he has to say. So I'm going to shift gears a little bit
and just well, maybe or maybe not. Have you ever had any other,
you know, events, any other UFO sightings in your life or was
that the was that the one and only one? I've had dozens, dozens,
yes, and unexplained pretty much all I've done regressions with Avon Smith and
have only pulled out limited information, very little. She teases me that I'm
a lawyer and I don't follow direction very well, and so that's probably,
you know, my block has more to do, I think, with them
than us. But I've I've had my uf you know, it's actual sightings.
I've had a few, but frankly, some of the other paranormal behavior,
you know, stands out to me more like in the last fifteen years,
you know, actually, yeah, about twelve or thirteen years, I'd
say I've as I started getting into this more, I've had a couple of
instances of missing time where things I've ended up in my hotel room in various
times twice for two significant times where something has appeared in the room that sort
of started between you know, I'm laying in bed and it's between me and
the area where the TV is, not from the TV, but where like
a bubble sort of would form and then I'd see visions. And I had
one when I was at the International UFO Conference in Arizona, where all of
a sudden, I wake up at about three o'clock and this greenish light is
starting to form, like thousands of tiny lights that merge into one and formed
sort of an oblong three dimensional area. It was sort of like a plasma
or something. And then from that I actually saw images first. The one
that stood out I could have reached out and touched it. As I was
sitting up, I saw this like three foot silver metallic domino sort of looking
thing, and on the top and bas relief, it had a classic UFO
with a line going down like a beam or something, and the second half
of the domino had a DNA strand in it. But the DNA strand had
hundreds hundreds of DNA strands in it, and out of those strands pop like
a symbol. And I just kept staring at that simple symbol, trying,
I've got to remember this. I kept telling myself, I got to remember
this, got to remember this, And then all of a sudden, the
symbol disappeared and it went right out of my head. I just lost on
knowledge, and so you know, I'm totally disturbed. And then the whole
thing shrinks down to nothing and leaves. Boy, you hear that a lot,
that something shrinks down to nothing and disappears. Listen, We're just about
out of time here. So and that was quite a fantastic story to end
the show on. So where can people find you and get a hold of
you, or at least get your books. Well, my books are available
on Amazon for sure, and starting to be available other places. Had a
few problems in production, but U I have a website j P l ufo
dot com excellent of time. I'm sorry to say we're out of time.
I will link your website in the show notes and in the text below.
Thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure. I enjoyed it,
Martin. All right, take care, all right everyone. We'll be back
next week with g. O. Turner. He's in the UK and should
be an interesting show. Thank you, and remember to keep your eyes to
the sky.