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Looking back on the life that you
leaving better rested, the hole in the

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crowd, stick around through the crag, the feeling or the fire you dancing

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around. All we hear is the
sound of treating, and no one cares

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where you come from. My ears
are still read feeding. I cares.

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We are new start. The day
is your one days be the worlds?

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What a sass? He's out of
dance. My heart goes now. I

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got the fuse of the ashes,
the spirits, light after night, looking

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down the itch forever to stop me
to take my vice. Now from the

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Unphone Radio Network, It's Untold Radio
with Dog and our tight chair. Hey,

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everyone, welcome back to Untold Radio
tonight. Doug is away. He's

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filming in Canada for Legimde Science too, but we're in great hands with our

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guest host, my girlfriend, best
friend and no stranger to the paranormal.

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I'll say hi everyone, I'm super
happy to be here tonight, and like

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Alex said, I'll be feeling him
for Doug. I know those are some

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pretty big shoes to fill, so
bear with me please. I'm a longtime

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listener, but first time podcaster.
Our special guest tonight is none other than

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Paul G. Buckner, the acclaimed
author of big Foot, UFOs and the

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Paranormal True Encounters. So tonight delve
with us into the mysterious tales of Erie

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forrests, unexplained phenomenon and moments that
challenge your understanding of reality. Prepare for

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a night of true encounters and chilling
tales, only on Untold Radio. Welcome

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to the show, Paul, Oh
great, thanks, thanks glad to be

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here. Very exciting. So,
you know, first, if you want

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to begin, like, how did
you get into Bigfoot? Was there a

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formative experience, did you have an
encounter? How did this happen for your

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journey? Oh? Well, you
know, that's that's the the thing that

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I find most fascinating is how everyone
gets into it, gets involved with it,

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because first and foremost, whether you
believe in Bigfoot or not, it's

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still very exciting just to think about
it, and it's it's always a fun

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story. But when I was a
kid, probably ten years old, this

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wasn't my personal experience, but it
was my aunt And this is what got

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me most interested in in this,
this whole Bigfoot thing. Late seventies,

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so, you know, not very
long after the legend of boggy creed.

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You know. Of course, everyone
you know, reverse back to that at

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some point or another, but I
don't know. I went to work with

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my dad one day during the summertime. And during the summertime back here in

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Oklahoma, you know, when you're
a ten year old boy, all you

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want to do is run and play
and just goof off all summer long.

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Well, my plans kind of got
a little bit thwarted when Dad said,

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Hey, you're coming to work with
me. Dad worked in construction, and

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he worked with his brothers, and
my cousin was about my same age,

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and apparently we both had plans made
for us that that particular summer, and

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they worked in construction, building houses. In this one particular summer, I

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had gotten up early and went to
work with Dad, and when I got

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there, my cousin was already there, and we were just kind of messing

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around all all day, really just
kind of trying to stay out of trouble,

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to stay out of their way.
I think it was just a a

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way for them to keep me out
of mom's hair, you know, But

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it was, you know, in
the late sammies. Nobody had cell phones

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back then, but I remember it
was. It was just after afternoon,

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after lunch, when a neighbor from
a house that my dad and my uncle

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were working on. A neighbor comes
over there and ask us, me and

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my cousin, Hey, where's your
dad at. We told him, well,

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they're in the house working. They're
probably in the back. So he

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goes in there and they have this
short conversation. Next thing I know,

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my dad and my uncle are hurrying
outside. They tell me and my cousin

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to get into the truck, and
so were jump in the back of the

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truck and away we go. My
uncle lived in this place called England Hollow

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and it's it's I grew up in
still All, Oklahoma, which is just

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a small town northeastern Oklahoma, the
foothills of the Ozark Mountains really, And

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we jumped in the truck and we
drove pretty quickly to get to my uncle's

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house, and it was it was
probably a good half hour away, but

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I remember when we get there.
We pull up to the house and the

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whole house is just dark and all
the lights are off. You know,

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it doesn't look like anybody's home.
The doors are locked, and my uncle's

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scrambling for his keys. Now and
he finally gets to the door unlocked,

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and we get into the house and
he finds my aunt in the back room

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along with my my other younger cousin. She was with her. But she

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finally comes into the living room.
She's all shaken and she's just still terrified,

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and she's telling this story to my
dad and my uncle that she was

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outside hanging laundry and when she saw
this this thing, she said, she

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was just and you got to remember
where. She's out of a very remote

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area. They're in England Hollow and
uh, just surrounded by by woods and

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a couple of pastures on each side, and they have a small barn out

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there and they raised some some cattle. And she said, she's outside hanging

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laundry and she notices some something or
someone out in this pasture. Said it

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was quiet ways away, and she
just really didn't think much about it.

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She thought, well, it was
probably a you know, just another cow

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or a horse or something in the
pasture. And she just continued on hanging

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the laundry. But then she noticed
it would get closer to her. And

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then at one point, she said, she turned away and looked back up

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and it was gone, right,
So she brought, Oh, okay,

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this is kind of weird. I
don't see it anywhere else. And then

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she heard something down at the barn
and that's she said, that's that's what

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really scared her, because she saw
this thing. She said, it was

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not a cowboy, wasn't a horse, wasn't a bear. It was on

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two legs. And wow, at
that point, what like, what was

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the did you say the time of
day was it was? It was at

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night evening? Well this this was
when when the neighbor came over and got

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my dad and uncle. It was
just a little bit afternoon, so it

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had to have happened around around noon. Yeah, yeah, so you know,

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in the middle of the day and
when when she saw this, and

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she said at that point, I
mean, she was just shaking, terrified.

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And because she she saw it,
it wasn't more than a hundred yards

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away to that barn. She can
very clearly see that. And by the

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time she got around to the front
of the house, she said, it

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had grabbed one of the small calves
and apparently had was carrying that calf off

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and she ran into the house,
got my cousin and locked the doors,

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and that's when she got on the
phone and called the neighbor, Now,

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my aunt, she's you gotta.
She was a stay at home mom and

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a very devout Christian lady. She
was. She was just not prone to

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storytelling whatsoever. That that's just not
hur him up. You could tell that

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she was scared. I still remember
this from when I was a kid.

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I mean, she was trembling,
just shaking and telling the story. So

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at that point, it sounds like
at that point she didn't identified as big

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Foot. Maybe she wasn't even aware
of what a big foot was, because

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I think he was the worst thing
she saw, this thing like otherworldly thing

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for her right to be seen,
right absolutely, because at that at that

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time, you know, late seventies, she wasn't aware of Bigfoot or hadn't

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seen any of those movies or anything. I don't think she even watched TV

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much at all. So it was
a very strange phenomenon to her to see

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something like this, and I think
that's what really scared her more than anything.

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She had no ideal, you know, but at one point, oh

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go ahead, no, go ahead, Oh what point did she make the

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connection or like pieced it together that
it could be a big Foot. At

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that point she didn't, but it
was a few days later. I remember

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then it was it was all brought
up and we were all talking about it,

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and that's when it was kind of
all kind of starting to fit together

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because at that time, there was
another incident that happened not too long after

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that in a place called Dutch Mills, Arkansas, just right down the road,

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because where we lived it was basically
right there in northeast Oklahoma on that

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Arkansas border, so very very close
and with a few incidents like this happened

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and get reported starting putting two and
two together and then yeah, it's it's

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bigfoot. Wow, that's amazing.
I can't imagine even just seeing that in

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the middle of the night. So, and you said, you said you

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were a kid at this point when
you're on had this experience. So let's

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going through your head, like did
you take right to it or were you

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skeptical, were you intrigued? Did
you want to see one yourself? Like

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what you know, what's going through
your head at this point? Well,

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you know, I think at that
point when you're about ten years old and

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you see other people's reactions and stuff, you tend to almost mimic the reactions.

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So it was very exciting but scary
at the same time. Exactly exactly.

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So let's fast forward here. So
this happens, right, Was there

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a period of time where you grew
up, maybe put it out of your

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mind, or were there other occurrences
in the town that kept your interests,

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like you know, what happened after
that? Well, like I said,

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you know, immediately after that,
there were a few reports around the one

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that happened in Dutch Meals, Arkansas, for instance, that was just days

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after this, and it was a
story about a bigfoot that apparently had broken

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into a chicken house late at night
and a farmer had went outside and caught

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it and shot at it. But
it had ripped the door off this chicken

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out. And this was like the
big commercial chicken houses, you know,

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the I don't have many sixty thousand
chickens or something like that, and those

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big grow houses. But it had
ripped one of those big metal doors off

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and stolen chickens, and this farmer
had shot at it. And this was

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in the paper and just going around
the community and everything, just reports around

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everywhere. But that it just kept
me intrigued with that. But you're right,

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after that, you know, it
just kind of kind of died away,

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dwindled. Thinking back on it,
do you think this was maybe the

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same big Foot or do you think
it was maybe another one? Based on

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the nearness of the encounters, Well, based on the nearness of the counter

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it could have very well been the
very same one. It wasn't really that

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far away, and as the growth
flaws, very close, so less than

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probably a dozen miles. You know, And what you know, out of

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all the things that could have happened
to you growing up, what made you

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want to pursue this further? You
know, you've with with the writing,

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and it looks like you've interviewed a
lot of different witnesses. Where did that

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passion come from? Well, I'll
tell you whenever I am in my late

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teenage years, I was I was
playing music quite a bit and actually started

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playing music on the road and traveling
musician, you know, touring around the

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whole countryside. And and I think
that's one of the things that really stimulated

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is because even though I didn't grow
up in a in a traditional Cherokee home,

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a lot of my family did,
and storytelling was a big part of

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that tradition growing up and Uh that
that's that's one of the things that I

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think was that was always you know, fun for me is listening to the

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elders and tell stories and stuff.
And in the Cherokee tradition and you know,

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the oral tradition, there's a lot
of different stories that are passed down,

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you know, from generation to generation. And uh, I think I've

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always just been drawn to those storytellers. You know, we have a lot

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of Cherokee National Treasures that are great
storytellers. And that's something that was that

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was I always love to go listen
to to wherever the at, you know,

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when I was as growing up.
So when I was on the road,

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I had a chance to meet a
lot of folks from other tribes and

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that's I think that's where the connections
really started coming for me to start really

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gathering those stories up and using those
for inspiration for my own fictional stories.

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But uh, yeah, I mean
I traveled from you know, from Oklahoma

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to all the way up to Canada
to down to Mexico to Florida to California,

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so I had a chance to visit
with dozens and dozens of different tribal

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members and uh, you know what
struck you, was it that there were

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similarities between all these different tribal stories
that there might be some truth in the

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midst of Absolutely, you know,
I think there are a lot of parallels

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and similarities there with with a lot
of different stories. And you know what's

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really funny to me because the thing
that I really just was really intrigued by

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in the Cherokee, there's three different
tribes within the Cherokee Nation. There's the

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there's the Eastern Band, then there's
the United Catu Band, and then there's

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a Cherokee Nation, which I'm a
citizen of. And all those stories you

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know from the Cherokee, all three
tribes still you know, have those same

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stories, although they haven't changed some
uniques and different qualities about them. But

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you know, it's there's not very
many stories in the Cherokee Lord that talk

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about Bigfoot, but there is one
by that James Mooney actually recorded. And

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James Mooney was you know, he
wrote the book with the History, Myths

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and secret Formulas of the Cherokees.
He was basically an embedded reporters to speak,

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you know, so he collected these
stories. But one of the things

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that I've talked to a lot of
elders about the stories that he collected.

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You have to almost take with a
grain of salt too, because the Cherokee

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people, we have a very good
sense of humor and we love to laugh.

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We love to laugh at one another. You know, it's just one

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of those, uh, those those
traits about us. So when these stories

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were told to Mooney, were they
told in that light? You know,

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were they told to just kind of
you know mess? Yeah? Yeah,

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So that's uh, I don't know, it's questionable. And and you know,

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what was your conclusion? Do you
think there's more more than these stories

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than just you know, messing with
people or you know, I think so.

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I think there's a there's a lot
more to them, because I think

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every story has some basis in reality, and I think those that bases there's

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00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:18,759
there's so many similarities throughout a lot
of the different tribes from uh Uh from

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uh you know, from Canada all
the way down to uh Us here in

207
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Oklahoma, and those similarities are are
very much what you're hearing in reports today.

208
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You know, he's anywhere from six
foot to ten foot tall, you

209
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know, upwards of six hundred pounds
covered in hair. And you know,

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even though a lot of the stories
are fearsome and terrorizing stories. I don't

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really recall any of any people that
I've ever interviewed ever been attacked or hurt

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injured other than by their own accidental
prowess, you know, of running or

213
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:10,880
scaring themselves. Yeah. Yeah,
so you think that, you know,

214
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:17,759
there's a tendency for them to to
be not violent in an encounter. Like

215
00:19:17,839 --> 00:19:19,559
what do you what do you think
about like, like what do you think

216
00:19:19,599 --> 00:19:23,759
of the like the missing for old
one set of books that kind of almost

217
00:19:23,839 --> 00:19:29,000
imply that, you know, maybe
some of these missing persons could beat the

218
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:37,519
big foot or paranormal you know.
I from a lot of the different witnesses

219
00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:44,920
that I have talked to an interview, there are a lot of occurrences where

220
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,319
there is more to it than just
a big hairy creature in the woods.

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00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:57,720
There's there's uh always seem to be
some sort of connection to otherworldly you know,

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aliens know the lives so and you
got to look around at our universe

223
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here, I mean, we're just
a very very small little spec out there,

224
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and to think that we're alone,
that's that's that's I don't know,

225
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:19,920
that's uh, I just don't I
don't see it. I don't think we're

226
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,920
alone. I don't think we're alone
here. I think there is something out

227
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,680
there, Oh, definitely, especially
with all the new evidence that's been coming

228
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:33,440
out recently, right, and I
think, you know, with social media

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the way it is too, there's
a little bit of a I mean,

230
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you have to be a bit of
a skeptic, especially with social media,

231
00:20:40,599 --> 00:20:47,839
because you know, everybody wants their
fifteen minutes, right, so I want

232
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my fifteen minutes, Paul, I
think you got a couple of more.

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But you know, it's it's really
funny though, because a lot of people

234
00:20:59,759 --> 00:21:03,559
love to tell stories anyway, you
know, I don't know, have you

235
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,319
ever played the game when you were
a kid in school? Where and we

236
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did this in church. We would
start with a story, and just a

237
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,079
short, quick story, and we'd
whisper it to one person and we'd pass

238
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,039
it around the room. By the
time it got to the last person,

239
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:25,079
that story had so completely changed.
What do you know it called? Was

240
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,960
it? Was it called telephone where
you're from? Yeah? I think so,

241
00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:34,759
absolutely? So where where is this
conver is it? Do you think

242
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:41,200
people that's what it is? Like? They want attention, you know,

243
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,160
they want to tell a good story
so they can get on TV. Like,

244
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,640
where do you what do you think
the misinformation is primarily coming from?

245
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,599
Is that? Is that it?
You know that It's really hard to say

246
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:59,160
because I've have I get calls all
the time and uh emails and stuff from

247
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,039
folks that to tell their story,
and I'll take it. For the most

248
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,880
part, people are very earnest in
what they made and what they're telling me.

249
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But I think there are those that
I think you have to be kind

250
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,240
of skeptical about, you know.
But for the most part, I think

251
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most people are being very honest about
what they believe they've seen. But you

252
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,599
know, growing up the way I
did, we hunt and fish, running

253
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in the woods and camping and planing. We spend our chopping the entire childhood

254
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:38,960
in the woods. And shadows play
a big role in what you see there.

255
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:44,000
Yeah, And that's That's a couple
of things that I always kind of

256
00:22:44,039 --> 00:22:45,519
fall back to because I have seen
things that I thought, oh my god,

257
00:22:45,599 --> 00:22:49,519
what was that, and then it
finally coming out a few minutes later.

258
00:22:49,599 --> 00:22:52,480
You see something coming into light and
you see it in a different perspective

259
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,799
and oh, okay, that's what
it was. But when you see it

260
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:04,240
in that fleeting moment you know,
your your imagination. Oh yeah, I've

261
00:23:04,279 --> 00:23:10,039
been terrified by a skunk. I
thought it was something. The right light,

262
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:18,079
a skunk looks like a pretty terrifying
alien. Yeah. So we're like,

263
00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:22,759
when you hear these stories, I
imagine you've heard enough of them that

264
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:30,920
you've maybe got a sense of when
something feels legitimate. Yeah. Yeah,

265
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,279
I think you really do. I
think you you kind of get that filter,

266
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and you don't want that filter to
be something that you automatically just assume

267
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:51,359
everybody's lying. Absolutely, But there
are the things that have are almost like

268
00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:56,079
tells for you, you know,
is it is it if someone's super eager

269
00:23:56,319 --> 00:23:57,839
that you're going to publish their story, is there you know, is there

270
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:03,200
certain things where it's not that they're
making the story up and maybe their alarm

271
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:04,680
bells are going on, you know, your alarm bells are going up that

272
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maybe maybe the story isn't legitimate.
Yeah. I think you get that that

273
00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:17,559
feeling after so many different interviews and
stuff. I think that it's just a

274
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,400
gut feeling and there's no science science
to it, obviously, but I think

275
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:29,559
you get a feel for people and
you can read people. That's you know,

276
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:37,000
I I don't know, after after
talking to so many people us it

277
00:24:37,079 --> 00:24:44,240
seems like hundreds, if not a
thousand or two. But I think you

278
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,039
have to enter into it each time
with believing that these folks are telling you

279
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,319
the truth, and then you listen
to it and you kind of just have

280
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,599
to kind of pick through it and
listen to it and try to compare that

281
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:04,880
to what you know physically is possible. And you know, it's one of

282
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,440
those things where somebody says, well, I saw it. It was you

283
00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:11,400
know, it was a hundred dollars
away, but it looked like it was

284
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:18,000
ten feet tall. What do you
do with that? Yeah, it's you

285
00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:21,839
know, there's a reason that they
put those little measuring sticks on the on

286
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,960
the door of the convenience store because
an eyewitness, you know, five feet

287
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,000
away will say somebody is five and
a half foot tall, when in reality

288
00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:33,440
they were seven foot tall running out
the door with the sack of money.

289
00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:41,240
You know, So it's it's hard
to really gauge distance, uh, you

290
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,200
know, and put size and weight
to that. Well, let me ask

291
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,880
you this. Out of all the
encounters that you know, all the stories

292
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:56,920
that you've taken what is the most
compelling story you've ever heard that involves big

293
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:03,839
Foot? And like like a U
a folle uh one. I think that

294
00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:11,039
was uh one that got me to
believing that there's has got to be a

295
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:17,880
connection. Happened in uh and in
Alabama. Uh and it was by a

296
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,960
Cherokee citizen lives here, but he
lived there in uh Decatur, Alabama,

297
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,079
I believe it was. And uh
the story that he told me there uh

298
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:34,200
was just very very intriguing, and
Uh I had to Uh I had to

299
00:26:34,279 --> 00:26:40,960
go there, uh and and trying
to visit this this area where he told

300
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:47,400
me it was about. But apparently
what had happened was, uh he was

301
00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:52,559
on a on a fishing trip and
uh with he and his wife, and

302
00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:56,599
on this fishing trip, they had
gone back into the woods and hike back

303
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,799
in and they were just he was
he was a fly fisherman and he'd just

304
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:07,839
liked to get out in the woods
and just hunt fish, high camp that

305
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:14,039
sort of thing. And uh,
he said, they set up camp and

306
00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:19,279
they're probably uh he said there were
a few miles back into the woods from

307
00:27:19,319 --> 00:27:25,440
where they had parked up the trail
he had and they had been there a

308
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,599
couple of nights already, and one
day he was out fishing by the by

309
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,559
the creek. It was just him. He had went down there. His

310
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,759
wife had stayed at the camp,
just messing around there while he was fishing.

311
00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:41,000
He had caught a few fish and
he had strung these fish up,

312
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:48,599
and uh he had went back.
He was just kind of going up and

313
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,720
down the stream there and catching a
few here and there. And he put

314
00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:56,640
him back on the stringer and he
said he heard something. It didn't really

315
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,400
think much about it, and he
looked around and and really didn't see anything

316
00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:04,240
or he won, so I didn't
really give it much thought. Well,

317
00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:07,640
he went to fishing again. Then
he caught another one and he went back

318
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,079
to his stringer to put this fish
on. It was gone. He said,

319
00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:18,279
he knew that he had tied it
very well, and it was actually

320
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:23,920
tied. He said, it didn't
just break off the in the water,

321
00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:29,319
you know, And he said,
there's just no way. So he's now

322
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,559
he's like looking around like it's somebody
out here messing with us, you know.

323
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,759
And uh so he said he was
a little bit perturbed at that point,

324
00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:42,200
and he hollered around and uh probably
hollered a few obscenities. You know,

325
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:45,799
who's out there, who's messing with
me, you know, that sort

326
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:49,359
of thing. But he said he
went ahead and fished a little bit longer

327
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,599
and then it just didn't catch anything
else. Just frustrated, so he went

328
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,200
back to camp and he told his
wife about this. He said, you

329
00:28:57,279 --> 00:29:00,880
know, I caught some fish,
but somebody stole him. And she said,

330
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,880
who's who's going to steal your fish? No, there's nobody out here.

331
00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:10,440
I hadn't seen it. So,
yeah, right, you lost your

332
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,000
you didn't catch any or you lost
him or something. You know, you're

333
00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:18,200
just you're just telling me this,
He swears to her, you know I

334
00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:25,000
did I did well. Later that
night, they go to sleep and he

335
00:29:25,079 --> 00:29:30,440
said, it's probably after midnight and
it's pretty warm outside and they have the

336
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:36,079
tenth flap open, and uh,
she's asleep, and he said he was

337
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,960
just just about to fall asleep when
he heard some noise outside. So he

338
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:45,640
said he just kind of snuck out
to see if somebody was messing with him,

339
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,160
you know, messing around in the
camp. And he opens up the

340
00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:52,240
tenth flap, you know, and
he says he couldn't really see that well

341
00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:56,599
out there. And he didn't have
his flash like handy, and he didn't

342
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,960
want to make any noise, so
you know, he just kind of slowed

343
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,799
closed that tent flap back and then
he reached around and tried to find the

344
00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:08,559
flashlight lying on the ground side of
sleeping bag. And he said, I

345
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,720
guess I made a little bit too
much noise or something, because then I

346
00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:15,400
heard it, like it must have
heard me and took off. So I

347
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,640
just opened up the flap real quick, and I shot my light out there,

348
00:30:19,319 --> 00:30:23,160
and there was it was gone already, and he said there was there's

349
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:27,200
quite a distance from his campsite to
the edge of the woods. He said,

350
00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:32,839
there's a good thirty forty feet out
through there. So whoever this was

351
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:37,759
moved pretty darn fast. So he
said, okay, that that said,

352
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,079
I don't see anything missing from the
camp, but there was obviously somebody here,

353
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,839
So I'm gonna sit up a little
while. Well, he turned his

354
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:51,960
flashlight off and and during this time
his wife kind of woke up, but

355
00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:53,920
she went right back to sleep,
he said, so she could sleep through

356
00:30:53,920 --> 00:31:00,400
a hurricane. Well, he said, he's sitting there, he's got this

357
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,799
tent flap open, and he sees
a small light, he said, a

358
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:10,480
light out out in the woods,
and he just pulls his tent back open

359
00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:12,960
it and it just kind of slowly
steps back out, and he says,

360
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,680
he's watching this light. He says, just a white light, and he

361
00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:21,920
thinks, okay, that's somebody with
a flashlight out there. But it's said,

362
00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:25,119
you know, but then you're watching
it. If somebody's holding a flashlight,

363
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:26,319
it's kind of herky jerky, you
know, kind of all over the

364
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:32,839
place. Says, if it wasn't, it was very smooth, and then

365
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,680
at one point it moves straight up
like a climbed a tree or something,

366
00:31:37,799 --> 00:31:44,000
and then straight back down, and
then another light joined it, and that

367
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:45,960
he said, okay. At that
point, he said, I'm starting to

368
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,000
get this eerie, weird feeling.
What in the world is going on?

369
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,000
And he said, of course you
know it's not. And you're seeing a

370
00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:57,000
light out in the woods. You
don't know how big it is because you

371
00:31:57,119 --> 00:32:00,759
have nothing to reference it by.
He said, it could have been a

372
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,680
five foot wide circle, it could
have been a small pinpoint. You just

373
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,160
you can't tell, he said,
But what he did, he stood up

374
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:15,880
and he started walking toward it,
and they both came together, and he

375
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,680
said they got a little bit bigger
and brighter, and then they just disappeared

376
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:27,920
altogether, just disappeared. He said
that next morning. He went back to

377
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,599
bed later on and fell asleep,
but he said the next morning they were

378
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,319
getting ready to leave. That next
day, he said, here's the funny

379
00:32:35,359 --> 00:32:39,759
part. You hear people talking about
this all the time, but they build

380
00:32:39,799 --> 00:32:44,119
these little rock carns, and he
said there was there was one sitting there

381
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,359
about four rocks big. He said, the first one was a pretty good

382
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,440
sized rock, and then smaller and
stacked on top of each other, not

383
00:32:51,599 --> 00:32:54,759
twenty feet away from their camp site. He said they didn't do it,

384
00:32:55,599 --> 00:33:00,519
and it was never there while they
were there. So what did his life

385
00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:10,240
think of that? Well, well, he said his wife just thought he

386
00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:17,680
was a little bit you know,
do you think did she think he stacked

387
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:24,039
those rocks? Exactly? Yeah.
But you know, that's not the only

388
00:33:24,119 --> 00:33:30,839
story that I've heard where there's lights
like that in the woods. So but

389
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,000
that was the first one that I
heard from in a situation like that.

390
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,279
And this is this guy. He's
a he's a hunter, fisherman, he's

391
00:33:40,359 --> 00:33:46,680
he was a guide and that's why
he did. He worked for outfitters guiding

392
00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:52,880
people on hunting trips and fishing trips
and stuff, and I mean he knows

393
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,799
his way around the woods. So
but yeah, I never got some fish.

394
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:05,440
He's not some accountant that when camping, you know that one time in

395
00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:08,360
his life and everything's worth him,
right he so he knew his way around

396
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:16,840
the woods. What what is with
these stories and and orbs and UFOs connected

397
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,199
connected the big Foot in some way? Like how do you even make sense

398
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,840
of that? Like let's say,
let's say we say this is going on,

399
00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:29,000
like, wow, why do you
think it's happening? How is Bigfoot

400
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:35,639
connected to juafoos? You know?
I think that's the million dollars question right

401
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:39,960
there, because everybody that I've talked
to that that had that similar type of

402
00:34:40,039 --> 00:34:47,159
experience where there's some sort of connect
connection there, it's like why, how

403
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,559
you know? What? What's what's
going on there with that? Are Are

404
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:58,719
they are they aliens themselves? Are
they here from another world? What's the

405
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:04,559
deal with that? Because I firmly
believe that number one, that we aren't

406
00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:08,280
alone in this universe. I just
don't believe that for a second. There's

407
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:15,159
because I've witnessed a couple of things
in my life that that tell me differently.

408
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:22,079
So I really don't know what that
connection is because there's so many other

409
00:35:22,199 --> 00:35:24,679
stories where there's there's not there doesn't
seem to be a connection at all.

410
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:34,119
So I don't really know why that
is. What is there been a theory

411
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,719
or a handful of theories that you've
you find convincing, uh you know,

412
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:47,559
reasons even if there's no evidence,
but just it almost makes sense to me,

413
00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:53,519
not not really, I can't draw
the connection. I just I don't

414
00:35:53,599 --> 00:36:00,320
understand what it possibly could be.
Uh, you know, because there there's

415
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:07,280
probably some scientific reasoning behind these lives
or these orbs or what have you.

416
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:15,199
But here where we're at in Oklahoma
and and Arkansas, in places like that,

417
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:21,360
I just don't see this being gas
or anything like that that's reflective or

418
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,280
things like that. So I'm not
really sure why it is. And like

419
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,480
you mentioned, I mean there's tons
and tons of these stories. I've heard

420
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:32,559
many before. Like my grandpa used
to tell a story of seeing a blue

421
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,679
orb in the middle of a field
like at in the middle of the night,

422
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,039
and you know it's just this big
ball of flame almost and you know,

423
00:36:40,119 --> 00:36:43,039
you can never get near it,
and if you ever try to get

424
00:36:43,199 --> 00:36:47,599
near it, it would disappear.
So yeah, like it's incredible and it's

425
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:52,119
different. Everybody has a different version
of what it is. He used to

426
00:36:52,199 --> 00:36:55,599
think it was just lost souls,
you know, trying to find their way.

427
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,280
I've heard very stories like that.
And you know, I remember one

428
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:08,239
time when I was a kid at
I was down in in Rolland, Oklahoma,

429
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:15,440
and uh, I don't know,
I guess that's probably fourteen or fifteen

430
00:37:15,559 --> 00:37:19,119
or something like that at that particular
time, because my cousin my same age

431
00:37:20,199 --> 00:37:23,239
down there had many bikes and we
were riding many bikes, run out in

432
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:29,239
the pastors and stuff, and I
remember us stopping our bikes and at one

433
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,039
point and going in my cousin alan
point and said, what in the world

434
00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:37,679
is that? And we're looking at
this and we got this big open field

435
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,519
here where we're riding our many bikes, and then there's woods down there,

436
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:46,639
and there's a big pond down there
somewhere, and we see this this reddish

437
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:52,760
glow just happening. We're thinking,
what in the world is that? So

438
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,679
we ride our bikes to it,
right, and as we get closer to

439
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,719
it, it seems to be getting
further away from us. We never could

440
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,079
get to it, but it was
still there for the longest time, and

441
00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:08,920
then all of a sudden, it's
just gone, oh wow. So you

442
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:14,280
almost feel like stuff like that,
it's just like they're deliberately trying to mess

443
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:20,760
with you, like the the whole
trickster arc type. I do. I

444
00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:30,119
think so because I've got I've had
a few experiences myself that tell me that

445
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:43,639
there's probably some some some reality to
that spirits being able to still manifest themselves

446
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:49,559
and still mess with us here somewhat, because I've actually, uh, I

447
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:55,079
just interviewed a lady not long ago, and this was a really fascinating interview

448
00:38:55,159 --> 00:39:00,440
because she was she's a young lady, just bought a house for the first

449
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:05,320
time, you know, and it's
just a small, two bedroom, one

450
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,079
bath house, you know, on
the edge of town, and it's just

451
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:15,639
her by herself, and she works
works night. And she told me when

452
00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:20,679
she first moved into this house,
she thought she was just very forgetful because

453
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:22,760
she would lay her keys down and
the next thing, you know, she

454
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:27,320
couldn't find them. Said it was
like that with a lot of different things.

455
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,320
You know, she lay stuff down
and they would disappear, only to

456
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:36,079
be found later exactly where she thought
she had left them. Well, she

457
00:39:36,199 --> 00:39:40,559
said that that happened for quite a
bit, and then one day I got

458
00:39:40,679 --> 00:39:44,599
up early and I was getting ready
to go to work in the evening,

459
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,039
and she had fixed a cup of
coffee and she set it down on the

460
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:51,800
table, and then she said,
I went to get my shoes and put

461
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,039
my shoes on, and she bent
down to tire shoes and then when she

462
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,760
set back up, the coffee cup
was on the other side of the table.

463
00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:06,480
Oh my god. Yeah, she
said that I just freaked her out,

464
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,960
and I can't imagine. Yeah,
so she said she just kind of

465
00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:15,039
jumped and it was just like horror, Who's who's here? You know?

466
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:22,480
And uh, she said that was
that kind of told me that maybe I'm

467
00:40:22,559 --> 00:40:24,920
not losing my mind. Maybe somebody
just messing with me. Now, maybe

468
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:31,519
it's some spirit messing with me.
So she said she called her mom and

469
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:38,039
dad that next day and they came
over right and uh, she's a Cherokee,

470
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:43,719
says, and herself and her dad
came over and and they basically smoked

471
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:49,519
the house off, and uh,
you know, and that's to get rid

472
00:40:49,559 --> 00:40:53,599
of those spears. Those spears.
Well, here's the thing about she said,

473
00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:00,159
her dad did that to get rid
of those evil spirits these things and

474
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:05,880
stop. Wow. Wow, now
that's the that's the catch. She said.

475
00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:08,119
I don't think they're evil. I
don't think they're evil at all.

476
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:15,559
I think they're just playing with me. Is absolutely yeah, she said,

477
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:20,360
there's there's nothing trying to harm me. Uh, if anything, is just

478
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:27,440
playing little drunk jokes on me.
So pretty pretty fascinating. Wow, kind

479
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,320
of scary, but fascinating for sure. Yeah, she's kind of gotten used

480
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,280
to it now, but it's it's
far and fear in between anymore. But

481
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,440
she said she completely got used to
it. So this might be like a

482
00:41:39,599 --> 00:41:43,320
little bit off topic here, but
I just want to pick your brain,

483
00:41:43,599 --> 00:41:46,320
like what are your thoughts on skin
walkers? Do you believe in them?

484
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:52,960
Do you? Wow? You know
that's uh, that's not something that is

485
00:41:53,760 --> 00:42:00,679
a prevalent story or any lore in
the Cherokee or in the Cherokee Nation anyway.

486
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:05,159
Now it could be with the UKB
or the Eastern Band or something there,

487
00:42:05,519 --> 00:42:08,840
but yeah, I don't have a
lot of experience with skin walkers themselves,

488
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,639
but you know, like with the
Cherokee. There's a lot of different

489
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,480
witches from the raven Mocker to spear
Finger that are some of the most evil

490
00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:23,960
and powerful witches. So skin walkers
themselves, I think are really come from

491
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:30,000
from different tribes that I've I would
love to get more interviews with and talk

492
00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:37,760
to more people, because I've got
a friend that he's Navajo, and he

493
00:42:37,039 --> 00:42:42,000
kind of tells me one of these
days, I wanna, I'm gonna tell

494
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,880
you some stories and that Adam make
a believer out of yet, so I

495
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:52,639
keep waiting for it's got to build
it up. Yeah, I mean,

496
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,360
it's just I don't know, because
every time I go down to meet him

497
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,199
in Gallop, it's like, yeah, well one day, I'll tell you

498
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:07,400
one day, you know. So
the suspense, you know, just lingers.

499
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,159
What would you be more terrified to
run into a big foot or a

500
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,719
skin walker in the woods? God, I think a skin walker. You

501
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:22,519
know, it's at least with big
Foot by now we kind of know what

502
00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:28,000
to almost expect, right, Yeah, yeah, with a skin walker and

503
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:36,119
you don't know, you don't know, that's that's just that's very scary.

504
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:43,360
But you know, I have you
ever heard of the town of Honabi Creek.

505
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:50,079
Every year that have a big I
haven't, I haven't. Well what

506
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,960
about it, Paul? Yeah,
every year in October they have this Bigfoot

507
00:43:53,000 --> 00:44:00,679
festival. And of course that came
from uh a supposed attack and uh that

508
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:06,400
happened several years ago. Well,
and Honaba, Oklahoma, it's Honaby Creek

509
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:14,599
in the Kami Mountains down south.
Well, this is UH there's several hundred

510
00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:19,159
thousand acres out through there in this
WMA, the Wildlife Management Area there and

511
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:24,119
uh a couple three different rivers that
run through there. Just a vast wilderness

512
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:30,760
and a lot of different stories that
have come out of there. But it's

513
00:44:31,159 --> 00:44:35,760
it's one of those places where I
think a lot of people go now to

514
00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:40,559
I don't know, to to try
to find bigfoot. Uh. You know

515
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:46,800
there's that what area X. I
think is one group of bigfoot researchers down

516
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:52,480
there that have some property and and
have done some research there. Very interesting

517
00:44:52,599 --> 00:44:57,320
stuff. But I've been all over
those mountains, you know, we've we've

518
00:44:57,679 --> 00:45:00,960
ridden four wheelers all over those mountains. They've lo those mountains for years now.

519
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,880
But again, you know, you
have three hundred thousand acres. I

520
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,880
don't care how many people are down
there. You can't cover it. You

521
00:45:13,039 --> 00:45:17,960
simply cannot cover that much area.
And you know what's really fascinating about that

522
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,800
is, yeah, I've been all
over that place, but you could take

523
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:29,679
that and put it in the Pacific
Northwest and it's just a spec So that's

524
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:35,679
that's where I really want to spend
some more time. Have you had any

525
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,079
experiences while you were there, like
besides anything, As a matter of fact,

526
00:45:42,119 --> 00:45:49,519
I had one experienced one and it's
uh, it's it's really it's it's

527
00:45:49,559 --> 00:45:53,960
scared to crap out of me.
I'll tell you that. I've got a

528
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:59,800
couple of friends that they have cabins
up there in Honaby Creek, right and

529
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:04,440
it's up on the top of the
mountain and from the there's a there's one

530
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:09,440
little store there called Honeby Creek Cabins
and you can rent a small cabin stuff

531
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:14,679
there. And every year the biggest
thing there is the Bigfoot Festival. But

532
00:46:15,119 --> 00:46:17,280
I've been going down there for over
thirty years with my friends, hanging out,

533
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:23,400
hunting, fishing, just whatever.
You know. Well, like I

534
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:28,199
said, I've been a musician too, So after I retired from the road,

535
00:46:28,519 --> 00:46:32,360
you know, I still played on
the weekends quite often. And I

536
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:37,920
had some friends that I've played music
with that lived in Tulsa and me being

537
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,880
from Stilwell, which is, you
know, one hundred hundred miles away,

538
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:45,280
we were going to meet up down
there and just spend the weekend. Well,

539
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,639
I lowered my four wheelers up on
the back of a trailer and I've

540
00:46:49,679 --> 00:46:52,639
got my four wheel draft truck and
the drive down there's about a three hour

541
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,360
drive from where I live, and
it's through the commun mountains and that Tallahina

542
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,800
Drive, which is just a beautifu
full drive in the fall. It's it's

543
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:06,559
one of those big famous drives that
everybody rides the motorcycles on and stuff,

544
00:47:06,599 --> 00:47:08,400
you know, through the fall and
stuff, and it's winding, you know,

545
00:47:08,519 --> 00:47:15,360
through the mountains and stuff. Beautiful. Well, I got loaded up

546
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:16,800
and I'm you know, trucking on
down here. I'm by myself, and

547
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:22,119
I'm driving up the mountain. And
when I get down to Honubby itself,

548
00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:27,480
it's probably another you know, twenty
minutes up to the cabins. Now.

549
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,440
So I passed by the store and
it's it's getting kind of late, and

550
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:35,000
uh, I want to hurry up
and get up there because it's hard to

551
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:38,599
find that road that turns off to
the cabins because it's a nice paved road,

552
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:44,000
but the turnoff is just a dirt
road, and it's right in the

553
00:47:44,039 --> 00:47:45,840
middle of the woods. And it's
not like there's it's a real turnoff.

554
00:47:46,159 --> 00:47:52,199
It's just a hole in the woods. So I get up there and I

555
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,239
drive through. We're turn off and
I'm driving back through, and the road

556
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,760
is real windy and twisty, and
you're going around these sharp hairpin turns.

557
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,400
I've got the truck and I've got
a twenty foot trailer on the back with

558
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,199
three full wheelers, right, so
I'm trying to get through these little tight

559
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:13,559
turns. I finally get back in
there to the cabin and I kind of

560
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,800
back it around. I finally get
backed in. I'm the first one there,

561
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,280
so I'm just sitting there waiting on
everybody, and it's it's dark now.

562
00:48:22,079 --> 00:48:24,599
And as I finally get backed in
and everything, I just put it

563
00:48:24,679 --> 00:48:30,239
into park and I just kill the
engine and roll the windows down. The

564
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:35,519
engine, I mean, the radio
stays on for another ten or fifteen minutes

565
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:40,599
or something like that. Then everything
just dies off. Well, when it

566
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:46,159
finally just died off, I'm sitting
here in the dark, and you could

567
00:48:46,199 --> 00:48:51,800
start hearing all the night noises around
you, the crickets, the cicadas,

568
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,800
the bullfrogs croaking, all the night
noises going on. And it is pitch

569
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,960
black up there on top of that
man there, and there was no stars

570
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:06,599
out, there's no moon. You
cannot see your hand in front of your

571
00:49:06,639 --> 00:49:09,840
face. I mean, is that
pitch dark. It's just inky black.

572
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,960
So I was sitting here and it's
just kind of eerie, weird, you

573
00:49:15,039 --> 00:49:21,360
know, And then I hear this, this footstep or what I think is

574
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,480
a footstep. Okay, what is
that, you know? So I'm looking

575
00:49:24,519 --> 00:49:29,599
around. I still can't see anything. My flashlights in the back of the

576
00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:31,800
truck with my other stuff, my
other gear, so I'm not gonna get

577
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,039
out and get it. And i
don't want to turn my headlights on because

578
00:49:35,199 --> 00:49:37,440
this sound happened over here to the
side of me, you kind of behind

579
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:43,920
the cabin. So I'm thinking,
okay, I'm fine, and I'll reach

580
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,960
into the console and i console myself
because I've got a handgun in there.

581
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:52,760
You know. It's it's the woods
out everything in the world there. So

582
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,159
I'm thinking, I'm good. I'm
safe, you know, and because you

583
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:05,079
can scare yourself stupid. So I
just sat there a few more minutes.

584
00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:07,199
Then I hear it again, and
you can hear the dry leaves just crunch,

585
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:14,119
and I, Okay, what is
that? Is somebody already here messing

586
00:50:14,199 --> 00:50:17,480
with me? And I think that's
impossible because they have to drive right by

587
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:21,280
me, and there's no way that
they could have. That road is so

588
00:50:21,679 --> 00:50:24,760
small, so remote. Yeah,
yeah, I hear it again, right,

589
00:50:25,599 --> 00:50:29,840
and now I'm starting to get this
this weird feeling like, Okay,

590
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:35,239
something's out there and it's it's not
a skunk. It's bigger than that.

591
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,039
It's bigger than than anything like that. You can you can just tell when

592
00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:44,679
you hear a noise that close to
you. And so I'm I'm sitting up

593
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:49,320
now and the harold, you know, back my neck is just standing straight

594
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,039
up, you know. And then
I hear it again. And here's the

595
00:50:53,119 --> 00:51:00,840
weird part. My windows are down, and I felt something in the window

596
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:07,719
beside me. It's like just this
looming presence right beside me, and it

597
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:14,079
was I it was stifling, and
I don't know what happened after that.

598
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,000
I don't know how in the world
I did this. But the next thing

599
00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:22,519
I know, my consciousness is it's
like I'm sitting down at the whole Numby

600
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:30,880
Creek store in my truck park and
I'm just breathing hard and it's it's I

601
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:32,840
don't even know what time it was. It was after midnight at this point.

602
00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:37,239
I don't know how I got there. I don't know what it was.

603
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,840
I don't know if it was just
a fear that caused me to forget

604
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:47,079
everything, but the major time lapse
of a couple of hours just gone,

605
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,360
God, wow. I never saw
what it was. I don't know what

606
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:58,239
it was, but it was did
you have like was there anything different?

607
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:05,199
Did you have any markings on you? Like? No? And I remember

608
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,000
I was sitting there just I had
my hands on the steering wheel and I

609
00:52:08,079 --> 00:52:12,880
was just shaking, and I don't
even I didn't know what to think.

610
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,880
I said, thinking, how did
I get here? You know what happened?

611
00:52:16,559 --> 00:52:22,519
And I'm just trying to remember and
I cannot remember. I just the

612
00:52:22,679 --> 00:52:25,800
last thing I remember is this this
looming presence beside me, just filling up

613
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,199
this entire window. And I've got
a four wheel drive truck. You got

614
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:36,039
to step up into it, you
know, so whatever this was was huge,

615
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,079
and I had no idea, and
I just remember sitting there. At

616
00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:45,039
about that time, my buddies drive
by and they hit their horns because they

617
00:52:45,079 --> 00:52:49,239
see me my truck and recognize me, of course. And they're driving by

618
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,079
and they're hitting their horns and the
holler and hey, come on up,

619
00:52:52,679 --> 00:52:58,519
you know. So I pull in
behind them, and I followed them up,

620
00:52:58,599 --> 00:53:04,159
and remember this, it's just winding
a lot of hairpin turns in there,

621
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,599
back and forth, you know.
And and I get there and I'm

622
00:53:07,639 --> 00:53:10,840
just I'm still shaking, and they're
you know, getting down, they're excited,

623
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,719
you know, they're getting climbing out
of their truck and everything, and

624
00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:20,039
I'm just shaking. And I guess
I'm just ghost wide and that's what in

625
00:53:20,119 --> 00:53:23,239
the world is wrong with you?
And I tell them, they're oh,

626
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:28,840
come on, that's it. I'm
serious, guys, there's there's something here.

627
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,199
So everybody's got their their spotlights out
now, because you know, rednecks

628
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:38,199
in the woods with with with guns
and spotlights, you know. But I

629
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:43,360
never seen anything else. In the
next day, I looked I looked over

630
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,639
my truck really really well. I
had no scrapes on it, no bumps,

631
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:50,199
no bruises, nothing like that.
So I don't know how I got

632
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:54,039
out of those woods without doing that. Oh wow, because if I drove

633
00:53:54,079 --> 00:53:58,159
out of there that fast, I
was going to wrap that truck around a

634
00:53:58,199 --> 00:54:02,239
tree with that those trailer and bikes
alone there. Yeah, Oh wow,

635
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:07,119
that's incredible. Oh my god.
Yeah. I actually I have a couple

636
00:54:07,159 --> 00:54:09,800
of questions for you, but let's
go to a quick commercial break. We'll

637
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:16,880
be back in just a minute.
Guys. Hello once again everybody out there

638
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:21,079
and Untold Radio Land. This is
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639
00:54:21,119 --> 00:54:23,320
the cryptic world this week and Bigfoot. Here's what we've got coming up on

640
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641
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642
00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:35,159
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643
00:54:35,199 --> 00:54:38,199
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644
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645
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stories in a whole lot more.
This Friday Night at eight on the next

646
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647
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652
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656
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657
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664
00:56:29,679 --> 00:56:35,400
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667
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669
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671
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:22,239
journey even more exciting together. Okay, all right, So here's my question.

672
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,159
Here's my question. So this crazy
story happens here, this crazy thing

673
00:57:25,199 --> 00:57:29,960
happens to you. Would you or
maybe you already have, would you ever

674
00:57:30,079 --> 00:57:34,119
get like hypnotized to try to do
like, oh, what is there like

675
00:57:34,159 --> 00:57:39,400
a regression or whatever, to maybe
see if you could feel I never have,

676
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:45,039
but yeah I would, I would. I would do it just to

677
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:51,280
see because like I said, I
could not remember in a hurt trying to

678
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,280
remember. I mean, it was
just it's there. I just know it's

679
00:57:54,320 --> 00:58:00,440
there, but you couldn't tap into
it what happened, you know, So

680
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:06,760
I would do it in a harbyat
like how scared? Like do you feel

681
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,320
like you'd be a little scared to
like maybe find out or would you be

682
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:15,280
excited or yeah, you know there
there's some apprehension to it, you know,

683
00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:20,079
to find out that what it really
really is, you know, because

684
00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:25,360
I don't know. The fear of
the unknown is the greatest fear ever,

685
00:58:25,519 --> 00:58:30,599
right, so you know, you
tap into that and find out what exactly

686
00:58:30,719 --> 00:58:38,280
happened, and it may be something
you just can't come back from. So

687
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:46,880
why do you think we haven't?
Uh? Why why do you feel like

688
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:52,840
this mystery, like like Bigfoot has
been so elusive? Do you feel like

689
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,320
we're making progress or do you feel
like, you know, we're kind of

690
00:58:55,360 --> 00:59:02,519
spinning our wheels here, like you
know what I'm saying, Like, yeah,

691
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:09,519
you know, I think sometimes it's
like in this this particular community,

692
00:59:09,719 --> 00:59:15,079
it seems like we're our own worst
enemies. Sometimes we shoot ourselves in the

693
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:24,239
foot no pun intended, but you
know for but yeah, I mean,

694
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:29,079
every every step forward, it seems
like there's something that brings you right back

695
00:59:29,159 --> 00:59:32,239
to, you know, to square
one. Because I think social media,

696
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:37,880
for one, thing, is a
fantastic thing. Uh and if used for

697
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:43,360
good and not evil. Right,
But at the same time, it's it's

698
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:49,719
one of those things where everybody has
an opinion and everybody is right. But

699
00:59:50,639 --> 00:59:53,519
you know, we still we still
have to put some some science to this,

700
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,519
right, We've got to have some
sort of proof. We have to

701
00:59:57,599 --> 01:00:01,119
have some physical, physical proof that
we can just we can hold in our

702
01:00:01,199 --> 01:00:07,400
hands, you know. I mean
my wife, for instance, she can.

703
01:00:07,639 --> 01:00:09,280
She loves to shop online, you
know, she don't have to go

704
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,480
to the store. That's that's great. Me on the other hand, I

705
01:00:13,599 --> 01:00:15,480
want to hold this in my hand. I want to look at them,

706
01:00:15,559 --> 01:00:21,639
I want to examine this, you
know, and without that that physicalness of

707
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:27,000
whatever this is, it's just like
it's not real to me, you know.

708
01:00:27,239 --> 01:00:30,000
So what do you think of people
that say, look, the reason

709
01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:35,840
why we haven't been able to get
definitive proof or at least, you know,

710
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,599
to prove the most art and skeptics
that this thing exists is because it

711
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:45,920
isn't physical. It's some sort of
supernatural, interdimensional being. You know,

712
01:00:47,599 --> 01:00:55,519
what you're asking for is impossible.
What do you say to that. I

713
01:00:55,639 --> 01:01:00,119
give a lot of credence to that, really, because you know, I

714
01:01:00,239 --> 01:01:10,320
think some people are more perceptible to
that. Uh, that's that's spiritual side

715
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:15,480
of things, because you know,
it's kind of weird. I've had a

716
01:01:15,639 --> 01:01:22,239
couple of experiences where that made me
a believer in the spirit world, you

717
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:29,159
know, And uh, I think
there's there's just a lot of validity to

718
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:35,199
that. I don't think it has
to be absolutely physical, you know.

719
01:01:36,079 --> 01:01:40,079
Uh, to be real, I
think be spiritual and be very very real.

720
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,079
You know. That's the mind is
a very powerful thing. And I

721
01:01:45,199 --> 01:01:52,400
think for some people they can they
can pick up on those those spiritual things,

722
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,360
probably more so than other people.
And I don't think age or or

723
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,960
gender or anything like that has anything
to do. And I think it's just

724
01:02:00,159 --> 01:02:08,039
a matter of of circumstance. A
lot of times that maybe being raised in

725
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:15,800
a particular environment has has allowed them
to be more perceptible to these types of

726
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:22,599
things. So yeah, I give
that a lot of credibility. So what,

727
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:27,760
you know, if we can't even
narrow down if this thing is a

728
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:32,639
physical creature or some interdimensional being,
like where do you even start, Like

729
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:37,199
if you if you could get the
Big Book community to hone in on a

730
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:44,559
methodology, like how do you think
as a community we should be trying to

731
01:02:44,679 --> 01:02:57,760
solve this mystery? How? No
pressure? That's that's a very difficult question

732
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:02,320
to even even think about, because
you know, there's just so many different

733
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:10,960
angles to comment this by. You
know that just being in the in the

734
01:03:12,199 --> 01:03:15,559
physical realm is one thing, but
then when you're you're talking about that that

735
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:20,400
fourth dimension, you know, that
spiritual realm, and bringing that and tying

736
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:27,639
that together. Oh, that's that's
a tough one, you know because and

737
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,800
that's one of the things I've tried
to tackle with with a lot of my

738
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,079
interviews, because I've talked to a
lot of different elders, for instance,

739
01:03:34,239 --> 01:03:39,400
and not just my tribe, but
in other tribes too. And you know,

740
01:03:39,519 --> 01:03:44,960
with the Cherokee, the spirit world
and the physical world we're the one

741
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:50,880
insane Is it almost like they're blended
together or it's like on a spectrum.

742
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:59,239
Absolutely, and that was the basis
for our religion, if you want to

743
01:03:59,239 --> 01:04:03,840
call it a religion and basically looking
too away, but yeah, and it's

744
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:10,880
it's I'm not sure where that separation
occurred, you know, was was that

745
01:04:11,559 --> 01:04:15,440
something within our own tribe? When
when that separation started ocurring? Was due

746
01:04:15,519 --> 01:04:20,760
to colonization or was it just something
that was a natural progression of events?

747
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:27,199
You know, I think it was. Dan Brown wrote, you know,

748
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:31,320
in one of his books, and
it made a lot of sense, even

749
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:38,280
though it was a fictional book.
It talked about you know, in many,

750
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:42,519
many years ago, a man had
a lot of different gods, right,

751
01:04:42,559 --> 01:04:47,280
we worshiped a lot of different gods. But then as we became a

752
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:54,239
little bit more intelligent about our environment
and the physical world and the scientific world,

753
01:04:55,119 --> 01:05:00,880
those gods became less and less important
to us because we started, okay,

754
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:02,719
we can rule that one out,
you know. Uh, you know

755
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,079
thor for instance, that got a
thunder. You know, well, we

756
01:05:06,199 --> 01:05:11,079
know that that's a that's really a
physical manifestation. We know what the scientific

757
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:15,440
reasoning is for that, you know, So we don't need that god anymore.

758
01:05:15,519 --> 01:05:23,039
Right, So now we're down to
one to one God, And when

759
01:05:23,079 --> 01:05:29,079
you think about it in those types
of terms, is okay, where do

760
01:05:29,159 --> 01:05:32,639
we go from there? You know, now we're down to the one creator,

761
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:39,079
right, and the spirit world,
I think is back. We're almost

762
01:05:39,719 --> 01:05:43,760
back to that that same synergy where
the spirit world and the physical world is

763
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:48,440
it should be the same, right, I mean? Are we have we

764
01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:53,000
come full circle? Or are we
coming full circle? Are we getting there?

765
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:59,920
Yeah? And I can see you're
going with this, But specifically,

766
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:08,400
let's say, you know what Native
American let's say in their tails are big

767
01:06:08,519 --> 01:06:13,800
foots? Are they the way they
speak of them? Are they basically big

768
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,599
apes? Or are they something more? Is there some sort of a spirit

769
01:06:18,079 --> 01:06:25,800
interdimensional, paranormal element to these things? Well, that's that's the thing that

770
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:29,480
I've I've found is a common theme
throughout a lot of the Native American lure

771
01:06:29,559 --> 01:06:33,320
when it comes to any of the
stories that that have a resentlance to to

772
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:41,000
Bigfoot, right, that it is
a spiritual being. So I think that's

773
01:06:41,039 --> 01:06:45,400
where we're back to that that full
circle within within the uh, the Native

774
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:53,159
American belief because the physical and the
spiritual are still one within those types that

775
01:06:53,559 --> 01:07:00,960
is what what what is Bigfoot?
Representing in these types of cultures. Is

776
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,239
it different in the different tribes or
did they all kind of hone in on

777
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:11,159
this is like bigfoot, you know, means good luck or is signs of

778
01:07:11,239 --> 01:07:14,360
bad? You know? Like,
what what what are you getting from these

779
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:18,239
stories? Well? You know that
that's that's one of the things that I

780
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:27,360
find that is it's very controversial within
our own tribe because some people believe this

781
01:07:27,519 --> 01:07:33,039
and some people believe that. Right, But when it gets to the essence

782
01:07:33,079 --> 01:07:38,480
of the story, you've got to
think back to the stories themselves. Why

783
01:07:38,639 --> 01:07:43,920
why was this story ever told it
to begin with? You know, and

784
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,519
you think back, Okay, so
I'm hearing this story now for the first

785
01:07:46,559 --> 01:07:50,599
time. Well what about you know, two hundred years ago when this four

786
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:57,079
story was first told? Why did
that storyteller want to tell this story and

787
01:07:57,199 --> 01:08:00,480
pass it along? What was the
importance to it? Is Is it like

788
01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:02,960
a parable? Is it? Is
it something to teach us with? You

789
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:10,119
know, because a lot of the
stories within the Cherokee lore are our stories

790
01:08:10,239 --> 01:08:15,079
that are that they teach us something. You know. There's one particular story

791
01:08:15,119 --> 01:08:20,079
about how the possum lost his uh
fur on his tail, right, and

792
01:08:20,279 --> 01:08:25,600
it was due to pride and you
know, pride come up before a great

793
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:33,359
fall, right, And it's those
sorts of things. But there's also back

794
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:41,199
to the thing that you know,
Cherokee are are very uh we we like

795
01:08:41,319 --> 01:08:44,920
to laugh, we like to tell
those right. So a lot of our

796
01:08:45,039 --> 01:08:50,079
stories too, are are simply for
entertainment value. But and that's the thing

797
01:08:50,119 --> 01:08:55,479
that I think you have to remember
is is when when you're when you hear

798
01:08:55,560 --> 01:09:01,319
a story, whether it's about Bigfoot
or about the possum more, you know,

799
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:06,479
the origin stories too, you've got
to think back to that original creator

800
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:11,159
of that story, what was the
purpose behind that? Was it purely for

801
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:15,159
entertainment? Was it was it to
teach us a lesson? Or was it

802
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:20,359
to figure out how are how we
interact with our environment, how we interact

803
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:26,920
with the world and that understanding trying
to figure out how we fit in with

804
01:09:27,039 --> 01:09:30,840
that. So there's a lot of
reasonings behind that, but we don't know

805
01:09:31,079 --> 01:09:38,960
exactly, you know, not now, but I don't know. It's very

806
01:09:39,079 --> 01:09:45,560
interesting, is there is there stuff
you've discovered in these stories that I feel

807
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:49,880
like other researchers have maybe overlooked or
you know, just because they're just unaware

808
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:54,760
of these stories, maybe insights you've
picked up, even though yeah, it's

809
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:59,720
hard, right because there's embellishments,
and then there's just pure storytelling, you

810
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,000
know, trying to tell a good
story, make it interesting. And then

811
01:10:02,159 --> 01:10:06,039
there's the whole telephone effect, right
where how how old are these stories?

812
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:11,800
Howl on? They've been passed down, But as there's insights you've picked up

813
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:17,319
by just sher maybe his pattern recognition
of there's this commonality, this seed that

814
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:24,119
I'm seeing over and over again.
Well, you know, I think that's

815
01:10:24,159 --> 01:10:30,520
the something It is really interesting is
there are a lot of commonalities. And

816
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,880
it's funny because from tribe to tribe, you know, there's a lot of

817
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:40,920
different similarities in the same type of
story. So you know, like the

818
01:10:41,039 --> 01:10:45,359
one story that that Mooney talks about
that even remotely resembles a Bigfoot story,

819
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,560
and the way he recorded it.
You know, I've talked to a lot

820
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:56,079
of different elders from from every all
three of the tribes, the Cherokee tribes,

821
01:10:57,359 --> 01:11:00,279
and the word itself that he uses, that that was told to him

822
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:09,800
is not a word that is recognized
by our our Cherokee speakers today. So

823
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:15,640
that makes it a little bit more
difficult to really tap into the essence of

824
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:20,119
that story because it's one of the
oldest recorded ones that we have. That's

825
01:11:20,199 --> 01:11:25,600
you know, it's written down because
it's an oral tradition of course, you

826
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:30,239
know, with most tribes and those
oral traditions like that, you know,

827
01:11:30,359 --> 01:11:35,920
having no recording of the way that
they began. It's it's really hard to

828
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:44,760
pin those those things down because when
you try to compare one story to another

829
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:46,880
story, what they're trying to get
out of it and while they're trying to

830
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:54,600
teach is could be vastly different but
from the same, you know, type

831
01:11:54,640 --> 01:12:00,680
of story, if that is understandable
at all. Yeah, how much effort

832
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:05,079
is being done by just people in
general to put these stories to the page

833
01:12:05,159 --> 01:12:09,760
so they're not lost forever? I
mean, is there is there a great

834
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:15,239
effort to try to you know,
save these stories. Yeah, you know,

835
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,560
that's one of the things that I
love about our our tribe right now

836
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:25,199
and where we're at. You know, over the last few years, the

837
01:12:25,319 --> 01:12:30,520
Cherokee Nation in particular, have done
very well with our our businesses, and

838
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:35,800
we are the largest tribe in the
US and bigger than that, hope,

839
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:43,880
thank you. It's been a running
competition. You know, we're roll one

840
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,600
more member than you, but now
we are. You know, here in

841
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:53,600
Oklahoma, we have a just a
huge economic impact right here, and we're

842
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:56,920
in a very good place. And
that is one of the things that the

843
01:12:57,039 --> 01:13:02,560
Chief has recognized is is our need
to revitalize our language. And you do

844
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:09,319
that. The language is our culture, and our stories are just so important

845
01:13:09,359 --> 01:13:13,159
to us. And over the last
few years they've really put a lot of

846
01:13:13,319 --> 01:13:19,720
money and effort into revitalizing the language
and collecting these stories from our elders and

847
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:26,479
really putting great importance on that.
So we we are, I think,

848
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,079
very progressive in that approach, and
I think we're kind of at the forefront

849
01:13:30,119 --> 01:13:36,119
of that because not long ago we
were in danger of losing the language.

850
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:45,640
We lose our elders and our first
language speakers in great numbers anymore. And

851
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:49,399
it's it's really sad to see that
and that that knowledge is not being passed

852
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:56,479
down don't like it used to be. But but you know, like I

853
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,560
said, I think we're in a
very very good place right now, and

854
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,840
we're starting to bring that back and
starting to collect those again, and we're

855
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:11,079
recording our elders and their stories and
these these stories that have been told and

856
01:14:11,119 --> 01:14:15,640
passed down from generation to generation.
So we're doing very well, but it's

857
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:29,359
it's going to get better. What
if you were given a million dollars and

858
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:32,119
you had to spend it on research, could be for the paranormal, could

859
01:14:32,159 --> 01:14:36,479
be for UFOs, could be for
bigfoot. How would you spend that money?

860
01:14:38,319 --> 01:14:45,880
Oh? Wow, loaded question there. Yeah, it is, you

861
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:49,840
know, one of the things I
always thought about because you know, being

862
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:55,600
a big avid outdoorsman, you know, I you know, like I said

863
01:14:55,640 --> 01:15:00,800
growing up and today, you know, I spend from October one, when

864
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:04,039
when both season opens to uh you
know, to to January, I'm in

865
01:15:04,119 --> 01:15:10,159
the woods, you know, and
all my family friends are, and it's

866
01:15:10,239 --> 01:15:15,159
it's just a huge tradition. We
always have been and uh, you know,

867
01:15:15,239 --> 01:15:17,600
we hunt everything from deer, turkey, quail, pheasant, whatever we

868
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,680
can hunt. You know, we're
gonna hunt, We're gonna fish. And

869
01:15:21,159 --> 01:15:24,640
when we're not in the woods during
those seasons, yeah, we're on the

870
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:32,359
lakes fishing. I would love to
be able to really put that into being

871
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:36,920
able to have the type of technology
and the equipment that I know that that

872
01:15:38,159 --> 01:15:44,199
is out there. It's just very
expensive to be able to go into these

873
01:15:44,239 --> 01:15:53,960
places that are uh I guess highly
young visited by by Bigfoot? Right?

874
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:58,560
Hot spots? Right, yeah,
hot spots and go there with with the

875
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:02,119
technology that we have and with the
manpower. I think that's the thing that

876
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:09,600
I wouldn't listening, what's the most
expensive piece of equipment, Like, what

877
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:13,079
is the toy you would just most
up to put in one of these spots

878
01:16:13,199 --> 01:16:17,880
or utilize? Well, I'll tell
you, I'd love to get with either

879
01:16:18,079 --> 01:16:23,640
who is Elon Musk or whoever's got
the starting satellites up there? Wouldn't get

880
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:28,399
some satellites out there because I mean
those satellites, man, they can really

881
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:33,199
die. Why are we using them? Right? How how is a bigfoot

882
01:16:33,279 --> 01:16:40,319
hide from a satellite? Exactly?
Nobody can hide from a satellite. Surely

883
01:16:40,359 --> 01:16:45,239
Bigfoot can't. So what you're saying
is Elon Musk already has all the evidence

884
01:16:45,279 --> 01:16:56,560
we'd ever need. He's just sitting
there. What about drows what you just

885
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:02,920
had enough of them just flying around
patrolling the woods eventually? Yeah, I

886
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:05,880
don't know. I just don't.
You don't seem interested in drones, you

887
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:13,840
see, Well, I'll tell I'll
tell you this. Here's just a quick

888
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:18,520
story that I thought was a drune
or was several drums. It was drolls

889
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:24,960
at first. Yeah. And this
is broad daylight in a little town called

890
01:17:25,039 --> 01:17:30,000
Venita, I just not very far
from here. I'm standing outside with a

891
01:17:30,119 --> 01:17:34,800
with a friend and we're just looking
around and we're waiting on cars to come

892
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,600
into this event that we're at.
We're at. We're at the gate.

893
01:17:39,159 --> 01:17:43,199
We're just kind of talking and as
people slowly come in and stuff, and

894
01:17:43,279 --> 01:17:46,479
we direct them where to go and
park for this event, and it starts

895
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:50,520
slowing down. Everybody's already there,
and we're standing there just talking, you

896
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:55,359
know, just chit chatting, and
uh, I glance up into the sky

897
01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:01,279
above town. There are these white
orbs, right, They're just white,

898
01:18:02,239 --> 01:18:05,640
and they're flying around, and there's
several of them. There's about a dozen

899
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:09,840
of them, and they're just all
flying around. And then like five or

900
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:13,079
six of them break off and fly
around over here to the other side,

901
01:18:13,399 --> 01:18:16,720
and they're just all over the place. And then they come back together and

902
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:21,000
then they're all flying around again,
and I'm thinking, what in the world

903
01:18:21,079 --> 01:18:26,960
is why are they just all this
white orb If they're not drones, then

904
01:18:27,319 --> 01:18:30,680
that's not a drone. They're white. I mean a drone, you would

905
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:34,560
you would see some sort of a
shape or color or something, not just

906
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:38,640
a white orb. But then I
turn away and then when I look back

907
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:45,600
up, they're all gone. Those
weren't drones. But I'm just, yeah,

908
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:49,840
drones are I don't know. So
did it hit you when they disappeared

909
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:57,119
out of thin air? Yeah?
That was that was I was telling my

910
01:18:57,199 --> 01:19:00,680
buddy their Cameron. I said,
dude, did you see that? I

911
01:19:00,760 --> 01:19:05,880
mean, that's not drones. I
mean, you can't really enter up in

912
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:09,800
the sky like that, and you
have no reference point. You can't tell

913
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:15,840
how big something is or how fast
something is really moving. And but they

914
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:19,199
look like they were. They were
just able to move and do anything that

915
01:19:19,279 --> 01:19:26,560
they wanted to and then gone,
wait a minute, something right here.

916
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:31,680
So I'm sorry by missus this.
So did your buddy see them or was

917
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:38,640
it too quick? It was no, he never saw them. He never

918
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:43,079
saw them. No. That brings
me another question. Do you think the

919
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:46,079
problem with some people is they're just
they're not paying attention that they don't see

920
01:19:46,119 --> 01:19:49,640
this stuff that? Do you think
it's more common than people? You know,

921
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:59,399
maybe most people believe Yeah, because
you know a friend of mine and

922
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,279
I were talking about this very very
thing, like, for instance, when

923
01:20:03,319 --> 01:20:09,359
you're a hunter, uh and and
you're sitting in a tree stand, you've

924
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:13,920
taught yourself to be very very still
and to look forward those things that that

925
01:20:14,039 --> 01:20:17,199
don't belong you know, and it's
usually movement that that gives something away.

926
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:26,279
And you know, it's one of
those things where if you've taught yourself what

927
01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:30,279
to look for, you're going to
see it. But if if not,

928
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:34,479
I mean I for instance, I've
been driving down the road with my wife

929
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:36,640
and say, hey, look you
see that, dear, And she's like,

930
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:43,399
where where are you looking? We'll
see it? Well, she's not.

931
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:49,800
It's just it. Yeah. I
think you have to have some lot

932
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:54,279
of a trained eye to be able
to notice things that are out of the

933
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:58,800
ordinary. For instance, so you
know, when you're in the woods,

934
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,359
there's a thousand things out there.
There's trees, there's lambs, there's there's

935
01:21:01,479 --> 01:21:05,359
leaves, there's there's twists, there's
birds, there's squirrels, there's all sorts

936
01:21:05,399 --> 01:21:10,279
of animals and things. That's going
on your mind is trying to process all

937
01:21:10,319 --> 01:21:14,239
of that, and if you don't
know what to look for, you're not

938
01:21:14,319 --> 01:21:18,359
going to see it. Yeah,
exactly. Have you ever taken any encounter

939
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:30,439
stories from like Mexico? Uh?
Yeah, I did. And actually my

940
01:21:30,199 --> 01:21:34,720
my band was playing in Alama Gordo
and when we were there, we went

941
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:38,720
to El Paso and then we went
to ware Is to visit with some folks

942
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:47,359
over there, and yeah, yeah, Warda is right, you're gonna hear

943
01:21:47,399 --> 01:21:53,319
some weird stories there. That's a
big up hotspot right there. Yeah,

944
01:21:54,239 --> 01:21:58,039
well it was. It was really
fascinated some of the stories that some of

945
01:21:58,079 --> 01:22:01,600
the folks were telling us there that
Oh yeah, it's it's like an occurrence

946
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:06,000
all the time, you know,
wow, really you know so, but

947
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:11,399
yeah, I would love to be
able to go back into some of those

948
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:17,960
other remote areas like that. I
think they're probably more visible in those places

949
01:22:18,079 --> 01:22:23,319
like that too. Oh yeah,
especially you know, you've got miles and

950
01:22:23,359 --> 01:22:26,760
miles of just open desert. I
mean, yeah, the nice guys like

951
01:22:27,039 --> 01:22:32,000
clear as day. Oh no,
right, yeah, couple things. Yeah,

952
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:41,199
what about the Chip of Cabra out
there? You know, no experience

953
01:22:41,319 --> 01:22:45,119
or stories, but the Chip of
Cabra disappointed in that because you know,

954
01:22:45,279 --> 01:22:57,319
that's what tell me something. I
want to see it. It's like the

955
01:22:57,439 --> 01:23:10,640
National Animal there. But you know, like talking about supernatural hot spots and

956
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:14,920
stuff like that, Uh, why
do you think like Hanover Creek is it

957
01:23:15,079 --> 01:23:16,640
like why do you think that's such
a big hot spot? Like is there

958
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:26,399
a particular reason or you know that
that's Uh. I think those become hot

959
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:30,079
spots in a lot of times because
you have that that first encounter story,

960
01:23:30,199 --> 01:23:33,960
right, and yeah, that's uh, that's the big that's the one that

961
01:23:34,159 --> 01:23:38,560
puts it on the map. And
then you've got people that that kind of

962
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:44,840
flocked there to it. And unfortunately
it's part of it. You're gonna have

963
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:47,079
those people that are going to oh, yeah, well this is what I

964
01:23:47,159 --> 01:23:53,960
saw too, you know, because
you know those those bands, Yeah,

965
01:23:55,039 --> 01:23:59,600
like Federal what you say to me
too, is a big foot? Exactly?

966
01:24:00,319 --> 01:24:02,680
Yeah, you know, so I
think that's what creates some of the

967
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:09,199
hot spots. So what about this? What if what if there's this this

968
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:13,159
this stuff's happening everywhere. You get
a hot spot and now people that's when

969
01:24:13,199 --> 01:24:15,800
people's eyes open, you know,
that's when they're paying attention because they're like,

970
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:19,079
oh, well it's a big foot
that was seen here. We should

971
01:24:19,079 --> 01:24:26,560
actually pay attention instead of staring at
her fall, and yeah, well and

972
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:28,680
that's true. Like like I was
talking about, while we go, if

973
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:32,479
you're not trained to look for something
in particular, the same thing applies there,

974
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:36,279
you know, because now you're aware
of it. Have you ever went

975
01:24:36,319 --> 01:24:41,000
out and we're car shopping, for
instance, and you thought, Okay,

976
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:44,439
I'm gonna get me a jeep unlimited
wrangler, you know, and uh,

977
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:47,319
nobody in town seems to be having
one until you buy one, and then

978
01:24:47,359 --> 01:24:51,800
all of a sudden you see them
everywhere a right, So you're you're now

979
01:24:53,159 --> 01:24:57,720
looking for that. You know,
you see that. So I think there's

980
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:00,520
a lot to that. You know, you put it there in their heads,

981
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:04,920
so they're gonna find it. They're
gonna be looking for it. Have

982
01:25:05,079 --> 01:25:10,479
you Have you ever seen this video? It's like a psychology one on one

983
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:14,920
video, but it's like people are
passing up basketball back and forth, and

984
01:25:15,119 --> 01:25:17,600
they first just make you watch it
and you're just like, okay, whatever,

985
01:25:18,279 --> 01:25:21,359
and then they show you what you
missed and like someone in like a

986
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:27,680
monkey suit walks in and like,
yes, yes, walks right right past

987
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:32,159
them. Yeah, yeah, I
see I remember seeing that and I missed

988
01:25:32,199 --> 01:25:36,600
it the first time. Yeah,
isn't that crazy? What your mind focuses

989
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:43,840
on. Yeah, you know,
but yeah, there's and it's very fun

990
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:46,159
because you know, I've got a
friend that is Ah, he's a retired

991
01:25:46,239 --> 01:25:54,880
US marshall and he's very perceptible to
I mean just really he walks into a

992
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:59,079
room, right and he just reads
the room and he knows where people are

993
01:25:59,119 --> 01:26:01,720
sitting and what they're wearing with without
you know, just a glance. Right.

994
01:26:02,159 --> 01:26:06,520
Well, he's trained to do those
sorts of things, and he can

995
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:12,960
spot those little nuances that that are
happening, you know. And it's funny

996
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,840
because I'll test him when we're sitting
there and I said, Okay, there's

997
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:20,359
two guys sitting behind us, you
know, and uh, they're sitting across

998
01:26:20,399 --> 01:26:24,039
from each other part of their wear. And he'll go, they're not sitting

999
01:26:24,079 --> 01:26:27,279
across from each other, they're sitting
right beside each other, and there's a

1000
01:26:27,279 --> 01:26:30,319
woman across from them, and he'll
tell me what they're wearing. And it's

1001
01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:35,119
just amazing at just how a stude
he has become to being able to do

1002
01:26:35,239 --> 01:26:41,520
that. So it's it's it's a
pretty cool practice. Have you have you

1003
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:46,479
gotten better noticeing stuff with you?
Is that something you've cultivated yourself. I

1004
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:54,520
think so. I think I've gotten
to the point where I've really taught myself

1005
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:59,000
to look for those those oddities,
those those things that just don't belong or

1006
01:27:00,399 --> 01:27:04,560
and like I said, you know, my friend the marshal, you know,

1007
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:09,199
he's he's taught me a lot about
that as well, because you have

1008
01:27:09,359 --> 01:27:13,199
to be aware of your surroundings all
the time, especially if you're going to

1009
01:27:13,239 --> 01:27:16,239
go out into the woods looking for
bigfoot, You're better be knowing what it

1010
01:27:16,399 --> 01:27:20,079
is that you're looking for and what's
around you already. You know. It's

1011
01:27:20,119 --> 01:27:24,680
kind of an asset mapping practice.
You know, you look at what's there,

1012
01:27:25,039 --> 01:27:29,800
what's already around you, and not
just in your general surrounded area,

1013
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,720
but what's beyond that, you know, and then you put those things into

1014
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:39,880
that that picture. Was there any
useful tips he gave you, as far

1015
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:44,720
as you know, mental practices he
does, or a checklist of things he

1016
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:47,920
mentally goes through when he enters a
new area, or you know how he

1017
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:53,680
gets so good at it. Well, you know, I've I've asked him

1018
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:56,640
that a thousand times. He's given
me a few little pointers here and there,

1019
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:59,359
you know, like okay, when
you when you first, walk into

1020
01:27:59,399 --> 01:28:01,680
a room, number on what's the
geometry of the room, how's it laid

1021
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:04,399
out? You know, is it
a square room, is a rectangle?

1022
01:28:05,199 --> 01:28:09,479
If it is, how's how's it
laid out with the furniture that sort of

1023
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:12,560
thing. And start there with a
basis like that, and then put the

1024
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:16,239
people into that picture, because everybody's
going to be not just static, but

1025
01:28:16,279 --> 01:28:19,520
there's going to be other people that
are moving as well. So so when

1026
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:23,159
you you're looking at that room,
get you a basis, get you a

1027
01:28:23,319 --> 01:28:28,439
layout. Basically, you're you're drawing
that that room in your mind, and

1028
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:30,520
then you put those people into those
places. And then you think ahead,

1029
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:34,199
like if this waitress was over here
a moment ago, and you know that

1030
01:28:34,279 --> 01:28:38,319
there's people down here waiting on her, she's going to be back and forth.

1031
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:43,279
So there's going to be interaction between
that two. So remember those those

1032
01:28:43,319 --> 01:28:48,279
types of interactions and that'll help you, you know, pinpoint where different people

1033
01:28:48,319 --> 01:28:53,319
are located, you know, and
just little things like that. But it's

1034
01:28:53,399 --> 01:28:56,479
it's helped. But I don't think
I'll ever be as good as him,

1035
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:00,319
because I think there's some real scientific
training by what they do, not just

1036
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:05,960
you know, the few little tips
he's given me for sure, assuming he

1037
01:29:06,079 --> 01:29:11,760
maps all the eggs, it's too
yeah, all the entry points. But

1038
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:16,000
on TV they just enhanced that stuff, you know, but it's it's real.

1039
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:18,760
He says. You walk into a
room, you know where the exit

1040
01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:23,800
points are, you know, and
he's one of those that never sits with

1041
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:29,479
his back to the door. Yep, yep, that's that's always a good

1042
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:41,640
strategy. Yep. Yeah, definitely
gets strategy. So what what what's on

1043
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:45,439
your mind these days with this topic? What are you currently like excited about

1044
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:53,199
researching? You know, one of
the things that we were talking about earlier

1045
01:29:53,359 --> 01:30:00,279
is that the spirit the spirituality and
how it's you know, part of the

1046
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:05,119
physical world, and what what can
we do to really tap into that and

1047
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:13,479
to to really see that and understand
that and interact with it. Because it

1048
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:18,239
seems like all the stories and from
the people that I've talked to are something

1049
01:30:18,359 --> 01:30:24,359
else interacting with them, but not
you know, uh, them interacting together.

1050
01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:28,000
You know, it's just something that's
happening to them, not with them.

1051
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:33,760
So I think that's one of the
things that I'm kind of really more

1052
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:40,039
interested in right now, is that, So how do we tap into that?

1053
01:30:40,119 --> 01:30:43,640
How do we connect with that spirit
world, you know, and how

1054
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:48,159
do we interact. So I think
that's that's kind of a fascinating topic.

1055
01:30:50,199 --> 01:30:58,039
Have you have you ever done like
a like a meditation practice or gone We're

1056
01:30:58,079 --> 01:31:01,159
done like Alaska, or done some
thing to try to tap into this this

1057
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:09,960
realm or this area or explore it. Yeah, you know, I've tried

1058
01:31:10,039 --> 01:31:17,039
on my own through types of some
some meditation and some things like that,

1059
01:31:17,319 --> 01:31:23,640
but I don't think that I've gotten
anywhere where I really want to be with

1060
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:29,399
that. So it's still a very
young practice for me. But yeah,

1061
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:34,079
I'm trying to hone some of those
skills so that I can be more perceptible

1062
01:31:34,119 --> 01:31:39,840
to that, because, like I
said, I think people are just some

1063
01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:46,079
people are just more perceptible to those
things. And I don't know that's a

1064
01:31:47,199 --> 01:31:50,760
that's somewhere I really want to put
a little bit more time and effort into

1065
01:31:53,800 --> 01:32:00,479
what uh this is from a listener, polary your thoughts if any, about

1066
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:09,680
having at least three people engaging in
quantum entanglement questions. Oh, well,

1067
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:19,239
if you didn't take a moment,
digest can take a moment, possibly a

1068
01:32:19,359 --> 01:32:29,239
year quantum entanglement. Wow, Yeah, you know, I don't know.

1069
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,880
I don't know if I have any
thoughts right now. That's cool, that's

1070
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:45,880
a toughie. That's very interesting though. You've Sasquatch wizard. You've stumped our

1071
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:50,239
guests. Congratulations, You're gonna meditate
under a tree for a year with this

1072
01:32:50,399 --> 01:33:00,000
question. I'm telling you, man, well, a couple of things happen

1073
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:01,840
happened to me when when I was
younger that that made me really want to

1074
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:12,600
start trying to tap into that.
And one in particular was, well,

1075
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:18,520
it's it's it's an interesting story.
H what happens. I didn't mean to

1076
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:21,800
cut you off. I just but
he had all at all, he said

1077
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:28,000
in short of speaking about the strength
of prayer being used to communicate with sasquatch.

1078
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:32,960
Does that does that help? Yeah? Yeah, it does. I

1079
01:33:33,079 --> 01:33:39,039
think that's where what we were talking
about, with the spirit world being uh

1080
01:33:40,319 --> 01:33:44,920
the same as the physical world.
Uh. You know, that's where a

1081
01:33:45,039 --> 01:33:51,439
lot of our Cherokee beliefs came from. And that is something that I think

1082
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:59,640
every morning. You know, my
my grandma she would go to water,

1083
01:34:00,079 --> 01:34:04,359
and that's a very religious practice for
her to go to water and to bathe

1084
01:34:04,359 --> 01:34:09,720
the way all all those those those
negative thoughts, those negative feelings, those

1085
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:16,319
energies and stuff, and to basically
re energize with with new positive energies and

1086
01:34:16,479 --> 01:34:21,680
things. And I think when people
do that together, those those types of

1087
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:30,920
spiritual practices, I think they can
uh tap into that that spiritual world more

1088
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:35,760
readily. Uh. And that's uh, that's something that's been very important within

1089
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:40,199
the Cherokee people, the Cherokee tribe
and a lot of other different tribes.

1090
01:34:41,039 --> 01:34:44,239
Uh, you know, being able
to go to water and to to re

1091
01:34:44,479 --> 01:34:49,399
energize with that that focus uh and
uh, well to really to get refocused

1092
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:56,680
where you can actually be more one
and more synergistic with the uh, with

1093
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:00,039
the spiritual and the physical world.
So I think there's something to that.

1094
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:08,039
It just makes sense. Why why
couldn't we as a group have more strength

1095
01:35:08,119 --> 01:35:15,720
and more power to communicate into that
that spiritual realm. So, if you

1096
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:19,359
know, in regards or tribe or
any of the other tribes you've engaged with,

1097
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:25,880
what, what are your thoughts or
their thoughts on stuff like astral projection

1098
01:35:26,079 --> 01:35:30,439
or lucid dreaming. How does this
play into any of this stuff with the

1099
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:36,079
spirit realm if at all? Well, you know, I've tried to draw

1100
01:35:36,199 --> 01:35:44,199
some connection to that because you know, like peotes, ceremonies and and uh

1101
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:51,000
sweat large ceremonies and things like that. I think are probably the closest connection

1102
01:35:51,199 --> 01:35:56,640
to something like that. And I've, like I said, I've not been

1103
01:35:56,960 --> 01:36:01,600
one that's raised tradition. You know, I've got friends and relatives that that

1104
01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:10,520
have been and are more versed in
that. But it's something that I want

1105
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:14,359
to get in a little bit more
into and learning, learning from those folks

1106
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:20,640
and some of the elders and stuff. Another uh do you want to read

1107
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:26,640
the question? Sure, So the
big Foot influencers, they asked if do

1108
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:30,279
you think some people are more prone
to the ability to tap into the spiritual

1109
01:36:30,319 --> 01:36:34,479
world? You think there's yeah,
some people. Yeah, I really do.

1110
01:36:35,279 --> 01:36:40,840
I think that. Uh. One
of the things is to me,

1111
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:46,359
I believe is very important aspect behind
behind it is the environment which somebody has

1112
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:54,359
raised. Yeah, I think they're
probably more perceptible to that and have that

1113
01:36:54,479 --> 01:37:00,479
ability to do that because of the
way that they were raised and the things

1114
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:05,439
that were held important to them.
So they're they're trying to or they've taught

1115
01:37:05,479 --> 01:37:11,479
themselves or they've been taught to look
for those things and to be able to

1116
01:37:12,199 --> 01:37:17,159
use certain aspects of of their their
mind, their spiritualness to connect with that.

1117
01:37:17,359 --> 01:37:23,960
So yeah, So I know you
have a chapter in your book where

1118
01:37:24,039 --> 01:37:28,960
you talk a little bit about like
a man who thought he was going through

1119
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:33,199
sleep paralysis. Can you tell me
a little bit more about that story.

1120
01:37:33,279 --> 01:37:38,600
I was really intrigued. I'm someone
who struggles with sleep paralysis like every other

1121
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:44,159
night, so that was kind of
creepy and scary. Yeah, And you

1122
01:37:44,279 --> 01:37:50,600
know, it's I think sleep paralysis
is something that it's it's it's it's probably

1123
01:37:50,680 --> 01:37:56,680
fairly more common than a lot of
people to really realize, because I mean

1124
01:37:56,800 --> 01:37:59,640
I've talked to other friends and stuff
too. This. You know, I

1125
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:01,920
think I was asleep, but this
happened to me. Well, that particular

1126
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:08,760
story that you're talking about, it
was it was it was late one night

1127
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:14,399
when came home and uh, he's
he's going to bed, but he you

1128
01:38:14,439 --> 01:38:15,880
know, he takes a shower,
gets ready to go to bed. The

1129
01:38:15,960 --> 01:38:18,720
wife and the baby or in another
room. So he goes into the back

1130
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:23,439
room to uh to sleep, to
not disturb him, you know, and

1131
01:38:25,079 --> 01:38:29,399
lays down and he's facing the wall, not the door, and he hears

1132
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:33,760
these footsteps coming down the hall and
he thinks that it's his wife coming to

1133
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:40,159
check on him or whatever. But
then the footsteps are start running now and

1134
01:38:40,279 --> 01:38:44,760
then the next thing you know,
they jump on him and they're holding him

1135
01:38:44,840 --> 01:38:50,039
down and he can't move. He's
just completely frozen. He's he's screaming in

1136
01:38:50,119 --> 01:38:54,359
his mind, but nothing is coming
out of his mouth. He can't talk.

1137
01:38:54,600 --> 01:39:00,399
He's just he's just paralyzed. And
he's for maybe ten fifteen seconds,

1138
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:04,720
and he's just struggling with everything he's
got and then all of a sudden it's

1139
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:08,680
gone. It's off of him,
and he's looking around. There's nothing there.

1140
01:39:09,319 --> 01:39:13,600
He said, why do wake this
entire time? Now, I've talked

1141
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:16,279
to other people that have that very
similar experience that they're being held down,

1142
01:39:17,119 --> 01:39:23,000
you know, and they can't move
and it's it's it's very frightening. Yeah,

1143
01:39:23,039 --> 01:39:27,239
and that's exactly my experience. Every
night with me. It happens where

1144
01:39:27,359 --> 01:39:30,880
like I'll see like a black I
can only describe it as a shadow person.

1145
01:39:30,119 --> 01:39:33,560
That's like I see it climbing on
the ceiling and then it'll drop on

1146
01:39:33,720 --> 01:39:39,640
me and hold me down and just
yeah, and then one second to the

1147
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:44,079
next it just disappears. Completely.
Yeah, that's that's a terrifying experience,

1148
01:39:44,439 --> 01:39:48,960
you know. And I think and
you look back and there's a lot of

1149
01:39:49,039 --> 01:39:54,239
stories throughout history about that same thing, the old Hag syndrome. You know,

1150
01:39:54,399 --> 01:39:59,640
that's that's what that that is.
And like I said, I think

1151
01:39:59,680 --> 01:40:02,760
a lot how do people actually experience
that and maybe not realize that that that's

1152
01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:09,039
what's happening, that's that's sleep paralysis
and it can be very frightening. Oh

1153
01:40:09,119 --> 01:40:17,159
yeah, I mean in Mexico we
say that dead guy's on you. Yeah,

1154
01:40:17,199 --> 01:40:24,760
I've heard that. Yeah. Do
you do you think uh it's from

1155
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:30,520
a listener. Do you think there's
some overlap with this sucky this literature,

1156
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:35,000
with these kind of experiences. He
was thinking that maybe it does, but

1157
01:40:35,119 --> 01:40:41,960
he's not sure. You know,
yeah, I would. I would think

1158
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:45,840
so too, because like we were
talking earlier, I think every story,

1159
01:40:46,039 --> 01:40:54,359
in every myth or anything like that, has some basis of reality, right,

1160
01:40:54,560 --> 01:41:00,479
So I think a lot of that, does it. Yeah, see

1161
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:03,479
that another when they're you know,
it says held down by the shadow,

1162
01:41:05,039 --> 01:41:09,239
the old Hag. Yeah, the
Old Hag syndrome. It's it's a very

1163
01:41:09,319 --> 01:41:15,760
common thing, that's that's happened.
So, yeah, definitely creepy. I

1164
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:25,800
mean, one of the worst experiences
ever. Yeah, imagine. So how

1165
01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:29,079
often does this happen for you?
Oh? God, you know what.

1166
01:41:29,319 --> 01:41:34,359
I've noticed it peaks when I'm really
stressed, but it happens pretty often.

1167
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:40,840
I mean at least once a week. Yeah. Yeah, Well, the

1168
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:45,359
guy I talked to, he says
it's it's not happened very often, but

1169
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:53,800
when it does, it's it's very
very real. Yeah, it's not like

1170
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:59,039
he said, never sleeping. I
swear I'm not asleep. It never fell

1171
01:41:59,079 --> 01:42:02,560
asleep, but yeah, why to
wake this entire time? But yeah,

1172
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:08,439
it's just terrifying. Yeah, and
I feel like that's definitely the worst part

1173
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:13,239
of all because I'm I'll be like
awake and like I can see my whole

1174
01:42:13,399 --> 01:42:15,079
room, you know, I can
see Alex sleeping right next to me,

1175
01:42:15,199 --> 01:42:17,840
and I can't move. I can't
you know, ask for help. I

1176
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:21,720
can't do anything. So yeah,
definitely terrible. And I think someone in

1177
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:25,359
the commons said I have a demon
attached to me. And I've heard that

1178
01:42:25,439 --> 01:42:28,680
before, Like I've been told that. For a while there, I had

1179
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:34,399
a shadow person follow me around and
it seemed like even if I yeah,

1180
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:38,560
I had like five years where I
was moving every single year because this thing

1181
01:42:38,680 --> 01:42:43,840
was just following me everywhere I went. And then I got like a cleanse

1182
01:42:43,880 --> 01:42:46,680
done in Mexico by my family and
so far, so good right now,

1183
01:42:46,840 --> 01:42:50,520
But yeah, sleep paralysis is the
one thing that remains. So if any

1184
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:58,920
anyone in the commons knows what I
can do, anything's appreciated. Yeah,

1185
01:42:59,039 --> 01:43:01,239
did I I'm sorry I missed this
part of the conversation. Did you have

1186
01:43:01,359 --> 01:43:08,000
any anything she could do? Paul? Have you heard of anyone having success

1187
01:43:08,439 --> 01:43:14,000
getting rid of this? Now?
You know, I've talked to some folks

1188
01:43:14,079 --> 01:43:18,960
that have had a medicine man come
into the home and you know, smoked

1189
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:28,119
the home off and down and a
smudge ceremony and stuff. But it's it's

1190
01:43:28,199 --> 01:43:33,800
not completely worked. So you know, it sounds like, I say,

1191
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:40,199
maybe helped a little bit, but
not completely. I see, Laurie says,

1192
01:43:40,239 --> 01:43:46,800
can I talk? Does she mean
like during a sleep paralysis? Okay,

1193
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:50,479
I don't know. Well has it
been oh my god, for probably

1194
01:43:50,600 --> 01:43:56,880
now it's going on seven years,
seven eight years. It started when I

1195
01:43:56,960 --> 01:44:03,399
was pregnant, like crazy enough.
Yeah, but does it when it does

1196
01:44:03,439 --> 01:44:09,479
it seem to get more intense or
or has it lessened up in the intensity

1197
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:15,000
of it, like I said,
like it has less in the intensity,

1198
01:44:15,199 --> 01:44:19,359
but like I don't see the shadow
people anymore at all. That completely went

1199
01:44:19,399 --> 01:44:24,239
away after the cleanse. But the
sleep paralysis is what just does not leave

1200
01:44:24,279 --> 01:44:29,079
me alone, right, Yeah,
And you know, like it's like a

1201
01:44:29,159 --> 01:44:31,079
thing where I feel like I'm fighting
for my life every single night and that

1202
01:44:31,239 --> 01:44:33,720
or not every single night, but
you know, like pretty often. And

1203
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:36,359
then when I do wake up,
you know, I'll scare Alex because I'm

1204
01:44:36,399 --> 01:44:41,760
like screaming bloody murder and I finally
can get it off me. Yeah.

1205
01:44:41,880 --> 01:44:46,680
So yeah, during the experience,
no, I can't well, like I

1206
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:49,199
fight for it, like you know
what, I feel like something's holding me

1207
01:44:49,319 --> 01:44:53,880
down and just I can't get it
off me. And I'm trying to scream,

1208
01:44:53,960 --> 01:44:57,520
like I try, I just feel
like my voice is trapped. Yeah,

1209
01:44:57,600 --> 01:45:01,039
And that's the same theme through the
people that I've talked as well,

1210
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:08,960
is their mind is still very active, very alive, very aware of everything

1211
01:45:09,039 --> 01:45:14,359
that's going on, yet they cannot
do anything to move their body or tongue

1212
01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:18,880
or anything. Yeah. And like
for me too, it's any open door

1213
01:45:19,039 --> 01:45:21,760
is terrible for me. Like I
sleep I have. We have to close

1214
01:45:21,840 --> 01:45:26,239
every single door in the house,
like closets, the bathroom door and bedroom

1215
01:45:26,279 --> 01:45:30,600
door, everything, because like that's
my most recurring sleep paralysis is I'll see,

1216
01:45:30,720 --> 01:45:33,479
like this is very creepy figure come
through the door, or like peek

1217
01:45:33,520 --> 01:45:36,920
at me through an open door and
then come on top of me, or

1218
01:45:38,079 --> 01:45:41,600
like it'll creep from the door to
the ceiling, and you know, close

1219
01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:45,680
doors just seem to help more.
I don't know why. Yeah, I

1220
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:47,359
was also told to never put a
mirror in front of my bed, like

1221
01:45:47,560 --> 01:45:57,359
that was also not helping any deors
have any significance n in any of these

1222
01:45:57,439 --> 01:46:03,239
tribes as far as them being magical
or you know, I've heard it like

1223
01:46:03,479 --> 01:46:09,479
just in other places that there are
places I don't know where, like yeah,

1224
01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:14,079
like take what you said, like
they're like portal. Oh that yeah,

1225
01:46:14,199 --> 01:46:17,279
like mirrors act as like ports to
the spiritual realm. Yeah, I've

1226
01:46:17,279 --> 01:46:19,920
heard that many times. I don't
know if you have any thoughts on that.

1227
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:25,960
No, I've heard that same thing, and you know, I'd like

1228
01:46:26,039 --> 01:46:28,600
to explore that just a little bit
more. But at the same time,

1229
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:32,800
it's kind of a scary world to
even try. Oh yeah, that's why

1230
01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:42,359
I haven't done left on it exactly, so I think doctor d Mitchell here

1231
01:46:42,399 --> 01:46:45,560
says I may have missed this.
Do you think there's an insighting event that

1232
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:49,079
started the sleep paralysis. Yeah,
Like, I don't know how much I

1233
01:46:49,359 --> 01:46:55,880
like believe in this or not.
But while I was pregnant, I had

1234
01:46:56,000 --> 01:47:00,600
somebody deliver this like small package in
front of my Like I just went outside

1235
01:47:00,640 --> 01:47:04,319
one day outside my house in Mexico
and there was a small package filled with

1236
01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:10,119
like what we call bruhia or like
like a witch's magic kind of deal.

1237
01:47:10,760 --> 01:47:15,399
And it had like it had feces
in it, It had like chicken feet,

1238
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:20,319
it had hair, it had like
burnt paper, you know, like

1239
01:47:20,439 --> 01:47:25,039
all the signs of witchcraft at least
where I were from and what we believe

1240
01:47:25,119 --> 01:47:29,239
in. But yeah, I don't
know. That's why my family did the

1241
01:47:29,319 --> 01:47:32,079
cleanse. Yeah, I didn't touch
it because I was like, I'm not

1242
01:47:32,159 --> 01:47:35,680
gonna deal with this. I've heard
I've heard stuff. I'm like, I

1243
01:47:35,760 --> 01:47:41,880
don't know. Yeah, and I've
heard things like that too, And I've

1244
01:47:41,960 --> 01:47:45,399
also talked to elders and stuff said, you really need to find the most

1245
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:50,039
powerful medicine man that you can to
be able to to to make you a

1246
01:47:50,119 --> 01:47:56,760
medicine to ward this off, because
you know, and that's the thing with

1247
01:47:56,920 --> 01:48:02,000
within the Cherokee tribe, the witches, and they're they're different curses and things

1248
01:48:02,039 --> 01:48:05,399
that they can put on you and
stuff. You know. Most medicine men

1249
01:48:05,560 --> 01:48:11,039
can can see them, but you
necessarily cannot see, uh you know that,

1250
01:48:11,159 --> 01:48:15,159
which like the raven mocker for instance, that's one that that you can't

1251
01:48:15,159 --> 01:48:19,279
see. Or they can disguise themselves
as a family member or something like that,

1252
01:48:19,439 --> 01:48:25,119
but a strong medicine man is able
to see through that disguise. So

1253
01:48:27,640 --> 01:48:32,800
yeah, well, definitely interesting.
What did oh? I did see the

1254
01:48:32,840 --> 01:48:44,920
previous one for I'm predible still get
hitchhikers after big foot encounters? Huh,

1255
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:50,239
I don't know what the do you
think he's getting at, Paul, I'm

1256
01:48:50,279 --> 01:49:02,560
not sure hitchhikers one? I don't
know. Do you want to clarify that?

1257
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:15,399
Todd? Well? Someone asked how
are medicine man chosen and how do

1258
01:49:15,479 --> 01:49:23,239
they reach that status? Uh?
I don't know. I mean it's different.

1259
01:49:23,279 --> 01:49:26,920
I think it varies by culture,
right, Like, Yeah, my

1260
01:49:27,039 --> 01:49:30,680
great grandfather was a shaman, you
know, and he was just taught by

1261
01:49:30,760 --> 01:49:34,680
his ancestors and you know, it
succeeds back. I don't know in your

1262
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:40,119
culture, Paul, what if it's
different than that. Yeah, I mean

1263
01:49:40,359 --> 01:49:44,119
it's it's pretty much the same thing. I mean, they're they're taught from

1264
01:49:44,439 --> 01:49:49,880
a very young age by you know, other medicine man, and it's it's

1265
01:49:49,960 --> 01:49:56,319
kind of passed down, but it's
not a guaranteed thing from you know,

1266
01:49:56,640 --> 01:50:01,840
from generation to generation. Yeah,
it's yeah, because some of them are

1267
01:50:03,640 --> 01:50:08,159
well, I guess in a way
they are chosen by that particular medicine man,

1268
01:50:08,239 --> 01:50:12,239
whether or not they have the uh
the strength of the fortitude to learn

1269
01:50:12,359 --> 01:50:17,119
that and to be become uh you
know what they need to be, you

1270
01:50:17,199 --> 01:50:21,159
know, for for their teachings.
So so I guess in what Yeah,

1271
01:50:21,159 --> 01:50:33,159
they are definitely so. I think
what the earlier listener was saying was that

1272
01:50:34,399 --> 01:50:45,079
basically these things come home with them
or they follow them. If you heard

1273
01:50:45,079 --> 01:50:48,119
about that, like you know,
someone has an encounter and suddenly either having

1274
01:50:48,239 --> 01:50:54,119
encounters around their house or you know, nearby like this again, this thing

1275
01:50:54,279 --> 01:50:59,920
followed them back to their their place. Yeah, you know, I've actually

1276
01:51:00,079 --> 01:51:08,319
talked to a few people that have
that very thing. Because even though and

1277
01:51:08,359 --> 01:51:12,479
a lot of people think that yeah, if it could be due to h

1278
01:51:14,000 --> 01:51:16,359
I don't want to use the word
haunting because the word itself, I think

1279
01:51:16,399 --> 01:51:20,800
it just has a different stigma to
it. But I don't think it's necessarily

1280
01:51:20,880 --> 01:51:26,159
to place. I think it's more
two people, because people talk about the

1281
01:51:27,079 --> 01:51:33,000
people are more perceptible than others.
So I think it's it's something that that

1282
01:51:33,199 --> 01:51:40,439
somebody can carry with them and it's
not necessarily to the place. So you're

1283
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:43,520
saying, if you're haunted, it's
not as easy as selling the house,

1284
01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:53,960
you got a bigger problem. Yeah. Debra is asking Paul, do you

1285
01:51:54,000 --> 01:51:59,439
have any dog man tales? You
know that that's very interesting in the Cherokee

1286
01:52:00,079 --> 01:52:03,039
we really don't have any dog mantel. And what's really fascinating though, like

1287
01:52:03,279 --> 01:52:09,000
I said before, we don't really
have any Bigfoot stories to speak of other

1288
01:52:09,119 --> 01:52:13,439
than the one that that Mooney had
had talked about in his Book of Sacred

1289
01:52:13,479 --> 01:52:17,479
Formulas, and that one. You
know, all the others that I've talked

1290
01:52:17,520 --> 01:52:23,199
to and the other Cherokee language speakers
that I've talked to said that that's even

1291
01:52:23,279 --> 01:52:27,880
though there's a lot of striking similarities
to Bigfoot, that's not a story of

1292
01:52:27,920 --> 01:52:35,279
Bigfoot. But every one of them
have a little bit different tale about what

1293
01:52:35,439 --> 01:52:40,760
that story is really about. Is
it about a great hunter or is it

1294
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:44,039
about doing you know, what you're
told, what you're asked to do?

1295
01:52:44,359 --> 01:52:47,479
You know, because in the end
of it, uh, it's it's about

1296
01:52:47,640 --> 01:52:55,520
the village themselves. That when one
person breaks the rule, it punishes the

1297
01:52:55,720 --> 01:53:00,479
entire village, you know, And
maybe that's the essence of the story.

1298
01:53:00,439 --> 01:53:08,600
You know, you have to come
together and live more harmoniously and work together.

1299
01:53:09,600 --> 01:53:14,039
But if you've got that that one
just that one person, that one

1300
01:53:14,119 --> 01:53:17,119
bad apple, I guess can can
rest of the car, right, So,

1301
01:53:17,720 --> 01:53:23,760
yeah, for sure. Oh so
someone here said, Mudge, you're

1302
01:53:23,800 --> 01:53:28,079
home with sage, open every drawer
and door. Yeah. I think we

1303
01:53:28,199 --> 01:53:34,159
did that once already too. Yeah, I've heard sage is very good for

1304
01:53:35,279 --> 01:53:41,359
you know, showing away spirits.
Yeah. Yeah, and we use sage,

1305
01:53:41,399 --> 01:53:46,079
but cedars is probably the most I
think one of the most powerful that

1306
01:53:46,159 --> 01:53:49,720
we use here. And I think
that comes from, you know, from

1307
01:53:49,920 --> 01:53:55,039
our ancestral homelands too, you know, the Tennessee, Georgia, the Smoky

1308
01:53:55,079 --> 01:53:58,840
Mountains, you know that area there
You're gonna find more seedar than you would

1309
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:02,359
sage. Okay, seater, Yeah, we should try seater maybe around the

1310
01:54:02,439 --> 01:54:09,399
house. Yeah, definitely worth a
shot. Yeah. I think we've only

1311
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:15,600
had one encounter here since we've been
in this house. I stayed here alone

1312
01:54:15,720 --> 01:54:21,600
one day and I kept hearing someone
pacing back and forth in my hallway and

1313
01:54:21,720 --> 01:54:25,960
then I heard like everyone was opening
every single drawer in the house. Like

1314
01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:29,039
I had to call Alex to come
to come back, and like, oh,

1315
01:54:29,239 --> 01:54:34,039
I'm so sorry, I just ripped
his headphone out. I tell him

1316
01:54:34,039 --> 01:54:39,600
a nevie at this, but yeah, I Alex had to come home from

1317
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:43,159
work because, yeah, to check
on me, because I thought somebody had

1318
01:54:43,239 --> 01:54:45,239
broken into the house, you know, right, and it was nothing.

1319
01:54:45,319 --> 01:54:51,239
We had like burned stage afterwards,
and yeah, yeah, it's very similar

1320
01:54:51,319 --> 01:54:55,640
here. You know, open all
the windows, open the doors, open

1321
01:54:55,840 --> 01:55:00,119
every drawer, all of that,
you know, just so that the evil

1322
01:55:00,119 --> 01:55:06,359
spear can't have a place to hide. Yeah yeah, And like then that's

1323
01:55:06,399 --> 01:55:10,239
the other thing, like we were
talking earlier, like how do you even

1324
01:55:10,319 --> 01:55:15,079
know if it's evil or not?
You know exactly? Yeah, I mean,

1325
01:55:15,439 --> 01:55:20,880
besides the sleep paralysis, it really
hasn't been anything harmful, mostly scary.

1326
01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:29,600
Yeah, Laurie was saying, you
have to smudge the like the sage

1327
01:55:29,800 --> 01:55:34,279
or the seer or the right way. Oh, we're accidentally making the words,

1328
01:55:39,560 --> 01:55:46,479
Laurie. We gotta talk like,
you gotta show me something to Paul.

1329
01:55:46,600 --> 01:55:51,199
If you're gonna talk like, you
gotta get certified. You can't just

1330
01:55:51,359 --> 01:55:57,840
be We gotta do a couple of
cleanses here. Wikipedia. No, Yeah,

1331
01:56:00,039 --> 01:56:01,079
well, you know, that's that's
one of the things here. You

1332
01:56:01,159 --> 01:56:08,279
know, when when the church nation
builds a home for someone, that's one

1333
01:56:08,279 --> 01:56:12,680
of the ceremonies that that we go
out and do. Is that that smoking

1334
01:56:13,279 --> 01:56:16,520
off ceremony, you know, and
it's it's it's generally cedar, but it's

1335
01:56:16,560 --> 01:56:20,439
it's a very important thing, you
know, to first of all, to

1336
01:56:21,000 --> 01:56:26,039
make that person feel very comfortable with
that house. But you know, we

1337
01:56:26,199 --> 01:56:30,640
have some very good medicine man within
our tribe that we know and that can

1338
01:56:30,720 --> 01:56:36,119
do these things. But yeah,
it's it's important to us. Yeah,

1339
01:56:36,239 --> 01:56:40,279
oh my god, definitely. And
I think it's very interesting how like,

1340
01:56:40,359 --> 01:56:44,439
even though we have you know,
totally different cultures, different locations and everything,

1341
01:56:44,520 --> 01:56:45,600
like a lot of these traditions are
still the same, you know,

1342
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:54,920
and the beliefs and spirituality and higher
beings and right, yeah, very amazing.

1343
01:56:55,800 --> 01:57:01,520
Use black salt offs agency or cedar
aren't enough, okay, m interesting,

1344
01:57:02,319 --> 01:57:06,680
Yeah, a lot of remedies out
there in this in just this field

1345
01:57:06,760 --> 01:57:13,359
in general, you know, broadly
speaking, bigfoot, paranormal UFOs. If

1346
01:57:13,359 --> 01:57:15,840
there's one thing you could get people
to understand or at least consider, what

1347
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:23,239
would it be. Oh, that's
that's tough, you know. But I

1348
01:57:23,359 --> 01:57:26,479
think one of the things that I
try to talk to a lot of people

1349
01:57:26,479 --> 01:57:31,640
about is is have an open mind
and with that, you know, open

1350
01:57:31,720 --> 01:57:36,720
yourself up to the world of possibilities. Uh, don't think in concrete terms,

1351
01:57:38,680 --> 01:57:41,960
you know, because it's it's not
a black and white world. Obviously,

1352
01:57:43,239 --> 01:57:47,000
there's a lot to it that that
we just don't understand. And if

1353
01:57:47,000 --> 01:57:51,920
you can get anybody even interested in
these topics, that that's the most important

1354
01:57:51,960 --> 01:57:57,880
thing I think you can do is
enter into it with a blank slate,

1355
01:57:58,680 --> 01:58:02,319
you know, and try to absorbed
as much much information as you can before

1356
01:58:02,359 --> 01:58:06,319
you really make any judgment calls,
you know, when I when I interview

1357
01:58:06,399 --> 01:58:11,000
people, Uh, that's the you
know, you don't want to be judgmental

1358
01:58:11,119 --> 01:58:16,720
right off the bat, so be
unminded. You want to wait a while

1359
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:28,720
they get judgmental and cranky and just
opinionated. What do you think of the

1360
01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:35,560
generations? Do you think we're becoming
more disconnected from the spiritual? Do you

1361
01:58:35,640 --> 01:58:41,680
think we're becoming more closed minded as
science becomes more and more prevalent to worry?

1362
01:58:42,319 --> 01:58:44,479
Do you think people are starting to
feel like, well, we've got

1363
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:53,039
it all figured out. I think
there's a there's a lot too that because

1364
01:58:53,039 --> 01:58:58,520
I think people are so I hate
to say it like this, but self

1365
01:58:58,560 --> 01:59:04,520
absorbed because of that that cell phone
interface all day, you know now,

1366
01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:09,920
and they're so disconnected from the real
social world. You know, social media

1367
01:59:10,039 --> 01:59:14,680
is just it's not real. You
know. There's time when you've got to

1368
01:59:14,720 --> 01:59:18,000
put that that that smart phone down
because it ain't so smart, you know,

1369
01:59:18,279 --> 01:59:24,880
and and just get into the real
world again and start interacting. Yes,

1370
01:59:25,159 --> 01:59:32,159
after this interview, not not right
now, this is important, guys,

1371
01:59:32,399 --> 01:59:36,279
but after please put the phone down. But yeah, you know,

1372
01:59:36,479 --> 01:59:41,000
that's that's important, I think,
though, yeah, yeah, I think

1373
01:59:41,720 --> 01:59:47,319
make time for that. How how
have you balanced that? Do you do

1374
01:59:47,399 --> 01:59:51,960
you have like just periods of time
where you'll engage obviously, you know,

1375
01:59:53,279 --> 01:59:58,600
as an investigator and an author.
I imagine maybe you feel pressured to use

1376
01:59:58,680 --> 02:00:02,000
some of this if if nothing more
than to get the word out. But

1377
02:00:02,800 --> 02:00:05,239
you know, how do you how
do you not let this take over your

1378
02:00:05,319 --> 02:00:14,279
life? Oh? That's been the
struggle is real, you know, because

1379
02:00:15,119 --> 02:00:18,239
it is one of those things where
a lot of times at night, when

1380
02:00:18,279 --> 02:00:21,159
I when I go, when I
get home, it's just I need to

1381
02:00:21,279 --> 02:00:26,840
disconnect period, you know, and
just put it all the way and and

1382
02:00:27,039 --> 02:00:33,199
just go out into the woods,
go for a walk, walk barefoot,

1383
02:00:33,560 --> 02:00:36,760
you know, connect with the earth
again, you know, and re energize

1384
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:43,199
with that. There's there's something to
that. Yeah, take your shoes off

1385
02:00:43,239 --> 02:00:46,439
and walk barefooted through the yard.
You know. I think it's important that

1386
02:00:46,680 --> 02:00:50,840
we get away from that technology and
the electronics and stuff and make sure that

1387
02:00:50,960 --> 02:00:56,720
you have time, you know,
to realize where we come from. Yeah,

1388
02:00:57,439 --> 02:01:01,600
for sure, definitely. Well,
I you know, I thank you

1389
02:01:01,800 --> 02:01:05,000
so much for coming on the show. This has been incredible. You've been

1390
02:01:05,039 --> 02:01:09,720
amazing. You've been a gentleman,
a scholar. This has been fascinating.

1391
02:01:09,880 --> 02:01:14,439
We would love to have you on
again. But before we wrap things up,

1392
02:01:15,279 --> 02:01:18,239
you know, what's the what's the
best place for people to connect with

1393
02:01:18,399 --> 02:01:23,960
you? Reach out, find your
work. Yeah, I just want to

1394
02:01:24,039 --> 02:01:30,039
say, please everyone check out his
book. It's on Amazon, Bigfoot,

1395
02:01:30,359 --> 02:01:35,840
UFOs and the Paranormal True Encounters.
You've got other books as well, but

1396
02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:41,640
please, What's what's the best way
to people to find your work and learn

1397
02:01:41,720 --> 02:01:47,079
more about Yeah? Right now,
the best place is right there on Amazon

1398
02:01:47,199 --> 02:01:51,439
where you can find all the different
works and stuff. And there's more to

1399
02:01:51,560 --> 02:01:56,159
come after that one there, because
I've got so many more interviews that I'm

1400
02:01:56,239 --> 02:02:00,279
sorting through to put into volumes two
and three, and my email it is

1401
02:02:00,399 --> 02:02:05,920
right there too. I love hearing
from folks because so many people have had

1402
02:02:06,039 --> 02:02:11,920
so many fantastic experiences and stuff and
want to get that story out there and

1403
02:02:12,039 --> 02:02:15,760
want to tell somebody, talk to
somebody, So reach out to me at

1404
02:02:15,960 --> 02:02:20,199
at pg Buckner at yahoo dot com. I'll love to hear from folks and

1405
02:02:20,720 --> 02:02:27,479
absolutely find all my stuff right there
on Amazon. Well, thanks, thanks

1406
02:02:27,560 --> 02:02:33,399
again, Paul, good night everyone, and take care. Thank you guys.

1407
02:02:33,760 --> 02:02:40,279
Call you up feeling lit up tonight, be bothered by dreams and feel

1408
02:02:40,439 --> 02:02:45,239
it all day. You give me
comforts, say just give it some time.

1409
02:02:45,479 --> 02:02:49,199
By the end of the talk,
I'm feeling just fine. You and

1410
02:02:49,439 --> 02:03:00,439
I'm always known when we be love
they seem not, and every love got

1411
02:03:00,600 --> 02:03:09,199
go in all. I'll preak,
get up and up fifteen I fard we

1412
02:03:09,359 --> 02:03:15,079
hit. I'm down the road until
we get board just doing, and the

1413
02:03:15,199 --> 02:03:20,880
sun and the wind get gloracious cockfall
a will head on home again. Everybody

1414
02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:30,640
else can't see where we being all. Oh we know and every love got

1415
02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:40,760
go in all at the end of
the world together forever swater and I way

1416
02:03:41,359 --> 02:03:45,640
you better you should be in down
in our prey. We never can put

1417
02:03:45,760 --> 02:03:55,199
us apart, and always all the
time. It would be together every day,

1418
02:03:55,479 --> 02:04:00,239
but I know it never will be
let a strained by my way,

1419
02:04:00,319 --> 02:04:25,720
by the home. Do you again, every end of the world together forever

1420
02:04:26,079 --> 02:04:30,960
is wan and alway. If ever
you should be in down, and I

1421
02:04:30,279 --> 02:04:38,960
pray they never can puse a part
in love way at the end of the

1422
02:04:39,119 --> 02:04:45,560
world together forever is one a a
way. If ever you should be in

1423
02:04:45,760 --> 02:04:54,000
downt and our prey. They never
can pus apart in all way w time

1424
02:04:54,239 --> 02:05:00,600
when we meet together every day and
had no they never strain