WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:09.800 Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO 2 00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:15.640 news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your 3 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:23.519 host, Alejandro Roja. That is right, I am the host, Alejandro 4 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:31.120 Roja. Hello everybody, and thank you for joining us at Open Minds Radio. 5 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:36.320 I want to talk about something exciting. Last night, Coast to Coast 6 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:43.119 Antonio and I stood up into the wei stayed up into the wee hours of 7 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:50.000 the morning in order to bring to the tens of thousands of millions of Coast 8 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:54.159 to Coast listeners. Well they might not have quite that many, but they 9 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:58.439 have a whole lot of them. I'll tell you what to talk about UFOs 10 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:03.320 with our good buddy guest host George Knapp. That was a lot of fun. 11 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:06.840 Hopefully you were able to tune in. If not, check out the 12 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:11.480 archives. Just go to Coast to Coast. They used to call it Streamlink, 13 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:15.400 but now it's called the Coast to Coast Insider, and it's actually not 14 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:19.359 a bad deal, like five bucks a month or something like that, and 15 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:25.920 you can have access to all of the archives. So get in there and 16 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:32.439 download all of the Alejandro and Antonio Coast to Coast appearances, because there's that's 17 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:36.439 like my sixth time on Coast to Coast I think, so I'm very proud 18 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.519 to have obtained that because I remember thinking, wow, that'd be kind of 19 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:44.959 crazy of us on Coast to Coast one day and here I am number six, 20 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:48.840 number seven. I'll probably be right around the corner. So that was 21 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:52.120 a lot of fun. And if you are joining from that, if you're 22 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:55.799 a new listener because of Coast to Coast, thanks for coming and thanks for 23 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.840 hopefully enjoying then our Coast to Coast appearance, and I hope you enjoy the 24 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:08.000 show because this is going to be a great one. In fact, honestly, 25 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:12.400 this is kind of an interview I did a while ago that we're going 26 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:19.840 to be playing later. However, John Schuschler, who is the interview e, 27 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:24.840 he was a founding member of MUFON. He was the second international director 28 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:29.199 of MUFON. He was for quite some time, even when I started, 29 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:34.840 he was the international director. He worked in the space industry for his entire 30 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:38.360 career as an engineer and at NASA, and in fact he was a director, 31 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:45.400 so he was in charge of some very important projects including some related to 32 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:49.280 the Gemini missions, which was prior to the Apollo missions. It was our 33 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:54.400 first you know, ventures, manned ventures into space, our first spacewalk stuff 34 00:02:54.439 --> 00:03:01.080 like that was Gemini. N Back then at started seeing UFOs and he was 35 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:07.000 concerned about that, and that really got him into the whole UFO subject. 36 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:10.479 And he's gonna tell us all about that now. I'm friends with John because 37 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:15.039 luckily he lived in Colorado and so did I, and that's how I got 38 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:21.039 associated with the board members of MUFANS because I lived in Colorado and that's where 39 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:25.439 the headquarters were. So he was a mentor of sorts for me. And 40 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:30.639 unfortunately, I've been trying to get him on the show for quite some time 41 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:37.000 now, but his health has not been that great and so he doesn't feel 42 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:39.759 that he could, you know, kind of stay up and talk for an 43 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:45.639 hour, So he hasn't been giving many interviews or doing many lectures lately. 44 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:50.879 And his lectures are wonderful. They're incredible. Really, he can stand up 45 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:54.840 there for an hour or two just showing government document after government document. And 46 00:03:54.919 --> 00:04:03.360 I'm not talking about controversy MJ twelve documents where you know, nobody's quite sure 47 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:08.360 if they're real or not. These are our Freedom of Information Act, real 48 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:14.560 documents that you can show, our actual military documents regarding UFO cases and UFO 49 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:19.399 investigations and all of the people involved with UFOs. So it's it's very cool 50 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.480 to have those that have seen those lectures back then. And also you know 51 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:29.519 his involvement with NASA and talking about how NASA works, how the secretcy has 52 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:33.839 happened, and how they were told to deal with UFOs and his insider information 53 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:40.519 on how they deal deal with UFOs. So it's invaluable information. And I 54 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:44.560 wanted to make sure, because I haven't had this interview, you know, 55 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:47.199 on the podcast before, get this out to you guys, because I know 56 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:50.240 you will love it. Some of you might have heard it because I had 57 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:55.079 it posted on UFO think Tank, but really it hasn't gotten too many listens 58 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:59.639 there, so only you hardcores have heard it, and there's probably quite a 59 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:08.360 few you hardcourse here listening today and thanks for returning hardcourse, hardcorese rock and 60 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:12.480 SODO newbies, so and this is going to be a great interview for either. 61 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:17.319 I also wanted to mention that you have to go to a URL called 62 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:24.800 contact inthedsert dot com and when you get there, you need to register for 63 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:29.120 the weekend June third to the fifth, twenty eleven, because this is going 64 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:32.800 to be a cool event at Joshua Tree put on by our good buddy Steve 65 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:40.319 Murrillo, and he's essentially having a little conference out in Joshua Tree, the 66 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:46.839 beautiful area in California. It's a park with pretty rocks and trees and if 67 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.240 you've seen the Joshua Tree, they're very unique. And you two did a 68 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:55.120 rock video out there and everything and that was really cool. But this is 69 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:57.800 going to be a real fun conference. He's going to focus it kind of 70 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:02.560 around experiencers and abduction. He's going to have doctor Roger Lear, doctor David 71 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:09.720 Jacobs of Von Smith, He's gonna have Stan Romanek and me and even though 72 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:13.040 he doesn't have me up on the website yet, and I'm gonna give him 73 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:17.160 an earfull for that, what's up Marillo? But he actually I am going 74 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:21.439 to be speaking there, assuming the event happens, and I hope it does 75 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:24.600 because it's going to be a lot of fun. But he needs a few 76 00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:30.120 more registrations, So if you can go check it out and register you'll be 77 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:34.199 guaranteed a good time. Open minds. He's going to be there, Jason 78 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:41.160 will be there, well maybe hopefully, and I know Maureen's planning on being 79 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:47.560 there. Maureen or UFO Chick for those of you in the chat Blue Recover, 80 00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:51.800 but sure cover was blowing a long time ago, So come check us 81 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:55.240 out of contact in the desert. It's going to be a lot of fun 82 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:59.040 and we're really looking forward to that. Also, just right after that in 83 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:02.040 July also is the MOFON conference, so the move On Symposium, and they're 84 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:05.480 going to have an astronaut story musk Grave, so that's going to be a 85 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:12.079 lot of fun too. So we have a summer full of eupological fun and 86 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:16.920 craziness. And by craziness I mean Maureen. I'm sure it's going to get 87 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:21.439 crazy and run wild in the desert because she's a crazy woman. So that's 88 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:27.639 going to be a lot of fun. Moving on to the news, you 89 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:30.800 might have notice if you went to our website there's this ufone news type of 90 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:36.480 stuff and we call ourselves like the UFO News ASSORTI And you're like, what 91 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:41.319 is that, And well, what that is is we put up all of 92 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.839 the news going on in the UFOs because, believe it or not, there's 93 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:46.720 a lot going on in this field. Just like we talked about in Coast 94 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:51.240 to Coast, we filled three hours worth of ufone news and information, and 95 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:58.120 so you can go to our website to see headlines on a daily basis of 96 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:01.319 news stories that are happening out there. And then what we do on the 97 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:07.000 radio shows, we bring this guy, Jason McClellan. This guy's a flipping 98 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:11.199 genius. He's got all this information and he's got all this news and then 99 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:13.759 he comes here and tells us all about it. So I'm really happy to 100 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:20.720 welcome Jason McClellan to the show to share all the news. Jason, why 101 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:24.120 are you giving me a funny look? Talk some news? Bavid. UFO's 102 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:28.680 in the news. That's crazy. Yeah, it's wild stuff. Greeting Zalahandro 103 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:33.320 and hello everyone. This is your Open Minds News brief for Monday, March 104 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:39.000 twenty eighth, twenty eleven. A triangular formation of lights was seen hovering above 105 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:41.799 Lafayette, Colorado, lost Monday, and the event was captured on video by 106 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:48.080 Leroy Vandervet and his son Nick. The three solid red lights hovered silently in 107 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:52.480 the sky. According to Vandervet, there were several witnesses to the UFO. 108 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:58.360 ABC News reportedly called the Federal Aviation Administration, but they declined to comment on 109 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:03.200 the UFO. Morning America even visited Lafia to investigate the sighting. And perhaps 110 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:07.679 the most in depth coverage of this sighting has been done by UK newspaper The 111 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:11.799 Daily Mail, illustrating the international coverage of the event. And this happened more 112 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:18.519 than a week ago now, and still today it's making international headlines. Yeah, 113 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.519 it's kind of been slow to get out there, but it's gotten out 114 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:28.679 there for some reason or other. And I know it got popular this weekend 115 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:33.559 because it was like the Today Show or something like that that aired some of 116 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:39.639 the video. And it's funny how this happens with sightings. You know, 117 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.279 there are so many sightings that happen all over the world every single day, 118 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:50.879 but there seems to be something that causes the media as a whole to latch 119 00:09:50.919 --> 00:09:54.519 onto one particular story and kind of run with it, and then everybody picks 120 00:09:54.519 --> 00:10:00.840 it up and you see the video everywhere. It's big news for several days 121 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.480 and then it's gone. At least this is a decent video. I mean, 122 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:09.159 it's nothing that extraordinary, you know, but it is a typical type 123 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:13.320 of sighting. It's at very strange lights that you can't really say what, 124 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.440 at least for me, I can't say for sure what they are. I 125 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:20.120 really haven't seen even in the news stories much debunking going on. Are people 126 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.279 saying that, you know, they know what that is, right, So 127 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:28.399 the news stories have played it pretty straight. And it is actually in the 128 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:33.600 area of the Moufon headquarters. Interesting, yeah, but yeah, a lot 129 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:41.080 of big media outlets have shown this video on TV Good Morning America and yeah, 130 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:46.120 so and there was it's not too similar, but sort of similar video. 131 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:50.200 In the UK, a British man managed a video tape a UFO a 132 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.799 couple of weeks ago while he was watching the super Moon on the night of 133 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:58.639 the super Moon. He described the UFO as three huge red lights moving information 134 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:03.600 the sky in total silence. However, Essex Police say they didn't receive any 135 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:09.559 UFO reports that weekend. But again there's a video of three lights in the 136 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:16.039 sky moving and like the Colorado video, and according to the witness, he 137 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:20.840 didn't feel that it was a single craft. He thought the lights were independent. 138 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.759 They were moving together but also independently. Yeah, and that's what you 139 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.679 see in the second video. You definitely see the lights moving into formation and 140 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.279 they change, you know, formation, so it's not a single craft. 141 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:39.759 And interesting too that the videos were so similar because I saw that super Moon 142 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:45.279 one first actually, and I thought, well, it's kind of a cool 143 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:50.000 video. It's it's a typical signing. It's one that most likely isn't a 144 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:52.519 hoax. I mean, because hoaxes are cg's and if you're going to take 145 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:56.639 the time to CG something, you're going to do more, something more extraordinary 146 00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:00.480 than these kindy little lights that are you know, kind of just floating in 147 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:05.080 the air. So it seemed legitimate. Plus the witness and the news that 148 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:09.840 it came out on, so it seemed pretty good. And then you see 149 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.120 the Colorado one, which is similar, just a little bit better of a 150 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:18.039 video, and it just the similarities I thought were pretty incredible. I thought 151 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.519 so too, And you know, there are two sightings that are still making 152 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:28.480 headlines today. Yeah, so it's interesting that two very similar sightings, yeah, 153 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.879 are in the news at the same time. And I like the supermon 154 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.679 the super moon unfortunately it was cloudy for us, so I really didn't see 155 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:41.279 much of it, but yeah, prior to them naming this event the super 156 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:48.759 moon, my buddy in high school had that guy's nickname. He had the 157 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:52.840 title of having the supermon I can imagine one. All right, Thank you 158 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:56.279 for sharing, Alejandro. I haven't done a poll in a while. Let's 159 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:01.639 talk about a poll. A one hundred. Several evidence of Maryborough, Queensland, 160 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:05.440 on Australia's East Coast, reported seeing strange lights in the sky earlier this 161 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:11.200 month. According to local newspaper The Fraser Coast Chronicle, their office has been 162 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:16.399 flooded with calls and messages from people who witness the lights, people concerned about 163 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:20.480 the lights, and people who claim to have interacted with extraterrestrials. The overwhelming 164 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:26.279 response from readers in response to the initial reports about the mysterious lights prompted the 165 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:31.360 paper to place a poll on its website which posed the question are aliens visiting 166 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:37.120 Earth? An incredible sixty percent of the poll's nearly two thousand participants think that 167 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:43.120 extraterrestrials are visiting Earth. Perhaps more surprising is that twenty percent of those who 168 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:46.759 responded to the poll claimed to have met an extraterrestrial Wow. While the Chronicles 169 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:52.080 poll is non scientific, the results are still surprising. You know, all 170 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:56.440 of these non scientific polls that people put up, and I'm talking about from 171 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:58.960 credible news sources. A lot of times I'll kind of pop up poll up 172 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:03.279 on their story. Do you believe in UFOs? You do not? Do 173 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.080 you believe in ets? And always, even if they're AOL or if they're 174 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:15.279 in their Time or Fox or whoever it is, even though it's at a 175 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:22.440 news source that isn't catering to the UFO crowd, the numbers are always really 176 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.399 high. It could be because you know, people who believe are more likely 177 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.840 to look at a story about UFOs, but still the numbers are always really 178 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:33.480 high. Well, this one, you know, it's different from most of 179 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:39.080 the poles we see. Most of the ones that we hear about are in 180 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:48.039 response to UFOs or extraterrestrial life in general. But this one actually mentions extraterrestrials 181 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:52.799 coming to Earth. Yeah, and again the other poles that we've seen, 182 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:56.480 I think the response, the percentage we usually see is about fifty percent. 183 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:01.679 Now are we up to fifty percent? Well, the latest polls have actually 184 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:05.279 been in the thirty I mean the ones that are scientific are in the thirty 185 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:11.679 to thirty to fifty, right, So this one's showing sixty percent. Yeah, 186 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:18.320 thinking that we've been visited by extraterrestrials is incredible. Yeah, yep. 187 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:20.759 I mean the movies too, you know, George and Abascus last night. 188 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:26.360 Why so many movies, And it's because people are interested in the subject, 189 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:28.440 you know, even though it doesn't feel like it. When you go out 190 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:33.120 into the public and people seem skeptical and when you tell them, you know, 191 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:37.360 you work for a UFO magazine, they kind of think that's weird or 192 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:41.480 whatever. Still, the polls, even the scientific poles always say thirty to 193 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:45.600 fifty percent. That's a lot of people, right, And you know, 194 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:50.279 you can talk to conspiracy theorists who have their ideas about Hollywood and you know, 195 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:56.200 wonder about the secret agendas behind all these extraterrestrial themes movies. But you 196 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.480 can also look at it from what Hollywood is, and it's a big money 197 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:03.519 machine. They're going to do what makes money, and they know right now 198 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.799 Actra treasure movies can make money because the interest is there. Yep. Venezuela's 199 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:14.639 social President Socialist President Hugo Chavez thinks he knows why we haven't found life on 200 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:19.159 Mars. During his speech last Tuesday, Chavez stated, I have always said 201 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:23.440 heard that it would not be strange that there had been civilization on Mars, 202 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:30.080 but maybe capitalism arrived there. Imperialism arrived and finished off the planet. His 203 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.799 comments are too shocking, however, as Chavez has repeatedly blamed many of Earth's 204 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:37.600 problems on capitalism. The statement was made during a speech Javez delivered on Tuesday 205 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:41.919 at a World Water Day event in Venezuela. According to Fox News, this 206 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:47.360 isn't the first time Javez has referred to life on Mars, and as we 207 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:49.399 discussed even last week, the Red Plant has been in the news a lot 208 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:55.440 lately for various efforts underway that will make future missions possible to Mars. Yeah, 209 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:57.320 like that cool spacesuit we talked about last week. Yeah, the cool 210 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:00.240 space I think he was kidding. I mean, I think it was kind 211 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:04.599 of a metaphor for him that capitalism, no matter where it goes, will 212 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:11.680 destroy everything as his kind of idea. That guy's insane, so who knows, 213 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.240 but well, but he's He's definitely talked about extra trestos before and UFOs 214 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:21.119 and actually looked into some UFO sidings that he's heard about. Yeah. Well, 215 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:23.839 and you know, speaking of Mars, there was even a story and 216 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.799 I didn't get to read much of it, but I just thought about a 217 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:33.640 water powered spacecraft that could hopefully get us to Mars. Earlier, lots of 218 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.119 ideas floating out there on how to get us to Mars. And in fact, 219 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:41.440 there was also another story about this group who wants to send a little 220 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.000 device because they might be able to prove or their goal is to prove that 221 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:48.799 life on Mars is related to life here. It's a good thing. That's 222 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:52.720 not one of my new stories because I would have had to smack you jumping 223 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.119 the gun like that. What if that would have been one of my stories. 224 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:02.000 Wah wah, wasn't so right? No, no, you're safe. 225 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:07.400 But no, that's a very good point and that was a really cool story. 226 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.359 I read that today. And even aside from Mars and possibly as a 227 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:18.559 springboard to Mars, you know, NASA's looking at missions to asteroids and other 228 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.920 things where they can go and then go to Mars from there. Yeah, 229 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:26.440 weird stuff going on, right, Go to an asteroid, go to the 230 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.480 moon. People, We already told them, you know, playing these games, 231 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:33.640 and there's so much involved in going to an asteroid, like picking out 232 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:37.000 the right asteroid and getting the landing and everything. They're even thinking the landing 233 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.279 is going to be impossible, so they're going to just get close to the 234 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:44.200 asteroid. How the guys get out of the ship and go around the asteroid. 235 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:48.799 They're just wasting time. Go to the moon. Yeah, what was 236 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.400 the movie where they landed on the asteroid and it was a total disaster. 237 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:56.279 It was very difficult. Bruce Willet. Armageddon is in that right, Armageddon. 238 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:00.400 That didn't look fun at all. No people are flying. It shouldn't 239 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.400 work out so well for him. Now, well, NASA's been busy and 240 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:10.279 data collected by NASA's Kepler Telescope continues to reveal new and exciting information about the 241 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.039 Milky Way Galaxy. Hey that's our galaxy. Oh, I've been there. 242 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:18.319 It's awesome. Of the twelve hundred possible planets identified by Kepler in February sixty 243 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:22.119 eight were said to be Earth sized, but The Huffington Post recently reported a 244 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:27.079 new study by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory that suggests one out of every thirty seven 245 00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:33.000 to one out of every seventy sun like stars may have an earth like planet 246 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:40.319 in its orbit. Explaining the study, Joseph, let's see catans are right. 247 00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:41.880 I think that's made up. That sounds like some sort of asteroid or 248 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.000 something. That's why the asteroid you're going to land on rock you find on 249 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:49.799 it. He's an astronomer at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and he told space 250 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:53.839 dot Com this means there are a lot of Earth analogs out there, two 251 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:59.720 billion in the Milky Way galaxy. The more scientists learn about our galaxy, 252 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.240 the more apparent it becomes that there is still so much to learn about our 253 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:10.319 galaxy, let alone far away galaxies. Incredible two billion earthlike planets. Yeah, 254 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:17.319 and that's just that's short, because it's actually two billion trillion according to 255 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:21.880 my calculation, billion trillion kajillion is what you told me yesterday. Oh yeah, 256 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:29.000 and about ten percent of those have advanced civilizations on them. Your calculations 257 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:33.519 are probably a little low, but I agree they're spot on. Yeah. 258 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.720 Yeah, I mean, it's just what we keep talking about. This. 259 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.720 They discover and discover and discover, and I don't know why they haven't found 260 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:47.319 this stuff before. But we've talked about this too. How there's been this 261 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:52.839 illusion that NASA understands what's going on in our backyard, but really they don't. 262 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:57.279 Right, everything is new every day, it seems, yeah, exciting 263 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:03.440 times, and we're learning about all this stuffy and that just means, you 264 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:06.640 know, even though we talk about this stuff, we don't talk to so 265 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:11.119 it's authoritative and we have all the answers, whereas the astronomers often do that 266 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:17.640 correct, you know, talking about the SETI astronomers and stuff, especially the 267 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:25.400 ones that poo poo the extraterrestrial visitation hypothesis and they don't know. Shame on 268 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:32.079 the poopooers, Shame on the poopooers. Well, here's another study scientists. 269 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:37.160 Some scientists believe that life existed elsewhere in the universe, but it was wiped 270 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:42.079 out by exploding stars. The Daily Mail recently reported that some astronomers believe white 271 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:48.599 dwarf hypernovas have occurred several times over millions of years. These hypernovas create black 272 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:53.599 holes, and in these black holes is where astronomers believe alien life was sucked. 273 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.559 These same astronomers believe that life on Earth might meet a simil or fate, 274 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.799 but not for a few hundred years, so we're okay for a while. 275 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:10.359 It's so funny because talk about speculation, that's just like you know, 276 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:14.720 someone calling, you know, some of these real kind of wild speculation that 277 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.559 we get in this field that happens about, you know, what aliens are 278 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:22.160 doing and all of this thing when nobody knows for sure, well except for 279 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.880 maybe some that are talking to them, which is possible, but still talk 280 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.720 about wild speculation. With all the room out there, with all the stars 281 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:36.119 we just talked about, and there's so few examples of black holes that we 282 00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:40.480 know about to just kind of say, oh, you know, intelligent civilizations 283 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:47.519 are probably set up by black holes. Look, it's a safe paper to 284 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:52.119 write about. I guess when you can do something like that that can't really 285 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:56.079 be disproved until you're long gone. Oh right, Ah, we're all going 286 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.000 to be sucked into a black hole, but not for a couple hundred years. 287 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:06.160 You're gonna be all these series. They're the ones that are gonna come 288 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:08.400 here. Are gonna be robots. They were saying last week. All the 289 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.920 civilizations are sucked up by black hole. So I guess they can't send us 290 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:15.759 robots that are all authorities. They know they're they're telling us the way it 291 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:22.599 is. It's ridiculous, ridiculous. That's pretty wild speculation there. I mean, 292 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:25.920 if they said it was possible, and I'm sure it is possible and 293 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:30.720 maybe probable that civilizations out there may have been sucked up by black holes. 294 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.160 Sure, we may be sucked up by a black hole one day, and 295 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.720 we may not bad we get slammed with an asteroid. We may all live 296 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:42.519 on the moon. I'm gonna write some papers. Pretend I know what I'm 297 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:48.039 talking about too. You should, and perhaps this could be ridiculous too, 298 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:52.000 but we'll wait and see. Steven Spielberg is producing a sci fi drama series 299 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.920 about aliens that will be premiering on TNT in June. The name of the 300 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.680 series is Falling Skies, and unlike films like Battle Los Angeles that only look 301 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:06.400 at the initial attack on Earth by extraterrestrial forces, Falling Skies looks at a 302 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:11.759 devastated Earth that has been fighting alien forces for half a year. Disappointed. 303 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:15.839 Oh yeah, already. Yeah. I mean it's as if you know Battle 304 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.200 LA. They've lost the Battle in La and now they've got colonization that they're 305 00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:25.039 fighting against Still, I mean, it's not an original story, not like 306 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:30.319 Taken, which was very original that was pretty cool, or even Super eight, 307 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:34.720 even though it's kind of looks like a very It really reminds me the 308 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:41.319 trailer of Stephen King movie with you know, some unknown monster in a small 309 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.200 town killing animals and killing people. But at least that's a little more original. 310 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:52.000 Right now, it seems anything that Again, they've they figured out that 311 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.720 they can make money with extraterrestrial movies, but it seems they're stuck in the 312 00:24:55.759 --> 00:25:00.480 mindset of all right, let's have aliens come and attack the Earth, will 313 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.079 fight off the aliens. Aliens don't have to be bad, ye, cocoon. 314 00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:08.400 They were nice? Now he was nice? Yeah, e t like 315 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:12.200 maybe they think that's just boring, but not. I haven't seen it, 316 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:18.519 but was Paul nice. Paul was freaking hilarious. You gotta go see it. 317 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:22.200 You and Marine have not gone and see it, and that's stressing me 318 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:26.079 out, man, because then we can't talk about the jokes. And it 319 00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:29.720 was hilarious. I just talked to who did I talk to? I've talked 320 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.480 to several friends who have seen it, and they all agree that it's really 321 00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:34.200 funny. You guys are gonna love it, and I think all of you, 322 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:40.319 as my good buddy Jesse Randolph would call people saucer heads, you know, 323 00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:45.400 ufo people are all gonna love this movie. So you know, I'm 324 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:52.720 even more excited to see it because it's not a movie about evil extraterrestrials. 325 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.359 Yeah, this guy, well he's not the best example of an extra treastural, 326 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.920 but he's funny. He's like a regular dude, and he's vulgar. 327 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.759 If you don't like bad words, you know, or don't take your kid, 328 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:08.119 because there's lots of bad words. But other than that, my mom 329 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:11.079 says, I can't hear bad words, so I'm out. Oh dang it, 330 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:15.000 maybe next time. Yeah, well you're watching on TV. I don't 331 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.440 know how they're going to censor out all of that, because it was kind 332 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:21.799 of the bad words were kind of a theme in this thing, actually, 333 00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:23.720 and then they play into the story and I don't want to mess it up 334 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:27.200 for you. Well, they've managed to do a fine job on TV with 335 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:32.640 Crabby Your Enthusiasm. Yeah, and swearing is a large part of that show. 336 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:37.400 Although who's his buddy who lived in the house? Oh, Leroy Leroy, 337 00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:41.119 none of his lines on TV are funny, No, because they have 338 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:45.880 to edit what he said so much. He doesn't make any sense valid point 339 00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:49.839 all one hundred. That is it's for the news for today. You should 340 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:53.279 to check out all these stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source 341 00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:56.920 for UFO related news. I'm Jason McClellan, your Open Minds correspondent, and 342 00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:03.160 you've been briefed back to you, Alejandro. Thank you, Jason. Just 343 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.960 to fill you in on some of the other stories that we have up on 344 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:12.039 the website. UFO Case files Rebuilt, of course, is an ongoing thing 345 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:18.480 that we've been doing. Michael Strap, who is an aerospace kind of draftsman. 346 00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:23.839 He takes UFO sidings out there from reports and then he kind of makes 347 00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:29.039 a three D rendering of what the people reported and put him up against the 348 00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:33.799 background that is similar to what the witness saw, so you kind of get 349 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:36.799 a kind of a neat idea of what the witnesses had seen. So we 350 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:40.839 have another one up on that. And what's cool about this is a lot 351 00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:45.759 of people. In fact, Shastak asked me this question, if so many 352 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:49.319 people are seeing UFOs wide on astronomer CFOs. Well, they do and they 353 00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:52.839 always have. In fact, one of the sightings in this latest one is 354 00:27:53.599 --> 00:28:00.000 by a gentleman named Professor Clyde Tombaugh, and this was in Las Crucis, 355 00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:06.599 New Mexico, and this was a fairly famous astronomer who had his own sightings, 356 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:11.720 so you can see what he saw on that story. Pretty exciting, 357 00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:15.240 another really cool story, and this is something that we talked about last night, 358 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:19.640 and we've talked about this with Antonio before. Antonio, of course, 359 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:27.480 was at the UN really covering a story in the late seventies when Sir Gary, 360 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:34.079 Sir Eric Gary of Granada was trying to push forward a UFO initiative in 361 00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:41.559 the UN, and some new British documents in the new batches of files that 362 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:48.759 they've released kind of show a story, interestingly, of how the British government 363 00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:52.279 was trying to derail this whole process. They were working very hard. In 364 00:28:52.359 --> 00:29:00.240 fact, one of the quotes is pretty deep, pretty pretty cool, they 365 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:07.680 essentially said, and we have it at the top of the story here that 366 00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:15.079 in one of the quotes, the British government saying that they're firmly opposed to 367 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.680 a Granada resolution on UFOs, and they go on to say, therefore, 368 00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:26.559 make no attempt to conceal the UK's intention, meaning the UK's intention to totally 369 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:33.519 destroy this resolution on UFOs. Now, the United States government wasn't so against 370 00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:38.119 it. I think they knew even back then that it really didn't have any 371 00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:42.039 teeth. So in other words, you can ask that you get UFO files, 372 00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.480 but that doesn't mean you're going to get all the best UFO files. 373 00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:51.359 So it's a very interesting story that Antonio just wrote and we just put up 374 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:56.640 recently that we talked about it bit on Coast to Coast last night, and 375 00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:02.400 you can get the full story on the website, including so very exclusive photos 376 00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:07.799 of Sir Eric Gary at the UN doing his talk, and also some stamps 377 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:12.240 that Granada made in regards to this whole UFO initiative, So some really cool 378 00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.440 pictures there. So go to Openminds dot tv and check it out. It's 379 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:19.680 right on the front page. It's in the featured articles. But now let's 380 00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:25.240 go ahead and start our interview with John Schuschler. I'm really excited about this 381 00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.920 because we talked about a lot of great things and it's rare that you get 382 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:36.400 an insight into NASA and hear about these true UFO stories that the NASA administration 383 00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:40.079 has had to deal with in the past. So if we can roll the 384 00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:45.359 interview, well, I got into the UFO as many years ago, back 385 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:48.359 in the mid sixties. And the reason I did that was I was working 386 00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:52.720 in the space program. I was on the Gemini program. I was responsible 387 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.519 for the life support system on Gemini, and during the missions I listened to 388 00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:03.599 the down link and monitored how the system will performing. And on Gemini four, 389 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:08.559 which was a man mission with James mcdivot and Ed White, mcdibitt said, 390 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:14.000 while he was on orbit, there's something up here. I see something 391 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:18.240 outside and ground control ignored him completely. They didn't say what or why? 392 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:22.359 Are you crazy? Or you kidding? They didn't say anything. He just 393 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.279 went right on what they were doing, and he said something else about it, 394 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.279 and he said, I'm taking a picture of it. And after several 395 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:34.119 minutes the ground controller came back and said, are you still seeing something? 396 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:38.119 Or something like that, and I thought, you know, this is really 397 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:44.240 something you would think they would think it was a possible danger. You know, 398 00:31:44.359 --> 00:31:45.920 there was something on orbit. Was it debris? Was it something else? 399 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:49.920 And they never cared, I just didn't care. So that led me 400 00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:56.559 to believe that they must know it's there, and it led him to believe 401 00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:00.680 that he should be a little bit angry. And after he land and several 402 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:02.960 weeks later he went to the film lab to look at the film and they 403 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:07.200 showed him something that wasn't what he said he photographed, and so he spoke 404 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:12.000 out publicly on it. When I was a young engineer, that was fascinating 405 00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.119 because we were working seven days a week to get spacecraft up there in many 406 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:19.720 long days, and something else is there. We ought to know about it. 407 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.279 And that started my chase for the technology involved in UFOs. And that 408 00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:30.839 was the mid sixties. And soon after that I announced, well through my 409 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:35.359 family first that I was interested in UFOs. And it turned out that my 410 00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:39.039 father, a railroad engineer, had a fireman on his engine, a new 411 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:43.839 roll andres and Quincy, Illinois, and he said, one of a friend, 412 00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:45.960 Waltz, that's interested in UFOs too. We ought to get them together, 413 00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:51.200 and so they did and we struck off a friendship right away. And 414 00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.319 Wall said you want to join APPRO there a phenomena research organization, and I 415 00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:58.000 said, well, if it'll help, and help me get information. I'll 416 00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:00.400 do it. So I joined them and I became a consultant for them for 417 00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:06.519 a short period of time. And that was at a time when APRI was 418 00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:09.400 wanting to pull back and have more home control and less control in the field, 419 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:13.119 and they kind of felt that, well, it was an upstart. 420 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.880 He was taking too much command out there in the field. So they told 421 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:20.000 him he couldn't do it anymore, and he said fines, And so he 422 00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.599 said, we'll started on an organization. So he and I and several others, 423 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:29.240 a doctor Allen Nutkeith the University of Wisconsin had a meeting in nineteen sixty 424 00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:34.920 nine and farm roof on and that was the Midwest UFO network, and that 425 00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:38.640 was the start of what we still have today this many years later. We 426 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:45.119 think it was a good move pulling back and might say censoring the work is 427 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:49.200 done is not the way to get answers in this field. The way to 428 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:53.960 get answers is greater cooperation, a greater exposure looking at the varying things involved. 429 00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:59.480 So my start was very early on. It wasn't because there were UFOs. 430 00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:01.720 It would be cause of something that happened in the space program. But 431 00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:06.640 then Very quickly after I mentioned that to Walt and got involved with that pro 432 00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:12.159 I started getting chances for interviews and stuff. And one thing that came into 433 00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:16.440 Walt was an airline pilot of Ozark Airline pilot flying a DC three. His 434 00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:21.519 name was Captain Don Lackner, and he had taken off from Columbia, Missouri, 435 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.840 and right after takeoff, the FAA tower called him and said, you 436 00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:30.000 know, there is something in the sky over Kirkchfille, Missouri. We wondered 437 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.159 if you would take a look. And it turned out that the weather station 438 00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:37.159 in Kirkfille, Missouri, which is north of Columbia, had reported covering above 439 00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:43.280 the weather station at a really high altitude was eight ten thousand feet something like 440 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:45.920 that. I don't remember the details right now, but so he turned to 441 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:51.960 water and he immediately could see it even from Columbia, and he talked through 442 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:57.039 the tower and they guided him, and they even totally when it started to 443 00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:00.800 move, and it didn't start to move, however, he picked up his 444 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.960 handheld out a slight which is a very bright light that hiv in the cockpit, 445 00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:06.840 and he flashed it at it. When he did, it changed colors 446 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.719 and started moving west. In a few seconds, it was out of sight, 447 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:15.039 and when he got into Kansas City, he checked an his aircraft completed 448 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:16.800 the mission, went up to the tower and said he wanted to talk to 449 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:22.039 a radar operator about what was seen over Kirksdale, and they said, we 450 00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:24.719 don't have any idea what you're talking about. You crazy. We haven't talked 451 00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:28.840 to anybody to night about that. So that made him mad, you know, 452 00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:34.400 he said, I possibly put people in jeopardy on an airplane that answering 453 00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:37.679 a request, and you dropped me on my head. But it turned out 454 00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:43.280 there were seven professors from the University of Missouri on that plane and most of 455 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:47.599 them saw it. He called what they call stirless. Then fight attendant today 456 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:52.000 to the cockpit and she watched it along with him in the co pilot. 457 00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:57.639 So we had really high credibility witnesses that had nothing to gain from this whatsoever. 458 00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:00.360 And then pretty West intered it for me, there's something flying that we 459 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.079 got to know about. So that's my early days. That's where it all 460 00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:10.920 began. What ways I you'r raw in the space program? Well, I 461 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:15.519 started out as a just a young engineer doing grant work for the first few 462 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:21.719 months, but that's the end of the Mercury program McDonald auglas in Saint Louis, 463 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.800 and soon after I transferred into the Gemini program and got involved in the 464 00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:30.119 life support system and the loyal life support equipment, for design, engineering, 465 00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:36.559 the test of the pre flighting and then monitoring doing flight and it was a 466 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:40.360 lot of responsibility, but the space program did that for people. Anybody that 467 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:45.480 had the desire and the capability age didn't man, they just gave us the 468 00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:51.360 responsibility, which was marvelous. And so I went through the whole Gemini program 469 00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:57.039 and after Gemini shifted into the Skylab first space station design and was responsible for 470 00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.920 life support system equipment on that, including the equipment, the Austian storage thanks 471 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:05.320 all that kind of stuff, which was really a fun engineering job. It 472 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:07.800 was very hard, but it was really fun. We built the first regeneratory 473 00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:13.840 CO two removal system for that vehicle, where instead of carrying up chemicals, 474 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.800 you just have a machine that opened and closed and dumped CO two to space 475 00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:21.679 after it took it out, and synthetic zeolites, so you know, it 476 00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:24.960 was fun work. I didn't have much time for UFOs during Skylab, but 477 00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:30.239 when Skylab threw then Pete Conrad said he was a little red thing up there 478 00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:32.199 on order with us, So I got my attention again, you know that 479 00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:37.440 sort of thing. And after Skylab I transferred to Houston, Texas the Johnson 480 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:42.679 Space Center and worked for a year as a technical manager technical director in the 481 00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:45.920 crew System division, supporting the design of the space suit for the Shuttle and 482 00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:50.840 that sort of thing. Then in the second year on I moved over into 483 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.719 flight operations and it got clear out of design and got into the operation end 484 00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:58.960 of it. Found that fascinating work on training the astronauts and writing all their 485 00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.920 procedures and fixing up the flight data files and a little bit of everything. 486 00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:09.000 And then about nineteen eighty three McDonald augus name is Director of Engineering for the 487 00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:14.599 Houston Operations and later on I got into the director of Operations and did a 488 00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:17.840 little bit of everything, ran all the different things like business management, security, 489 00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:23.599 engineering, all those things. And my last job was with McDonald auguson 490 00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:29.239 and bought out by Boeling, was the building of the neutral Buoyancy facility at 491 00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:34.760 the Johnson Space Center. We built the largest water tank around that was heated, 492 00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.320 had a real good gas system and all, and that's where all astronauts 493 00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:43.199 train. Now they put the space station in it, and put the shallow 494 00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:47.039 cockpits and buff like that in it and do integrated training. It was one 495 00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:51.639 hundred feet by two hundred feet by forty feet deep and sixty million gallons of 496 00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:55.960 water, A real challenging design in Houston where the water tables about twenty feet 497 00:38:57.679 --> 00:38:59.760 and so we had to build half of it in the ground, half of 498 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:02.199 it on the ground, and just all kind of fun engineering things. And 499 00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:07.360 after that I decided to call it a day. I've done about everything I 500 00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:09.360 wanted to do in the space program, and the Mars program was too far 501 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:15.840 off and still is today, so I retired and got involved full time in 502 00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:21.920 UFOs. It seems like there were a lot of projects you work on where 503 00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:27.679 they actually saw something. What would you say was the percentage. Was there 504 00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:30.760 a large percentage of these missions where they saw something that you went in Probably 505 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:34.440 no, I wouldn't say it was a large percentage. It was probably a 506 00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.280 fairly small percentage. And the problem is that many of them never talked about 507 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:42.199 it. You know, if you saw the recent documentary on the first light 508 00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:49.559 first landing on the Moon, one of the astronauts there said something was out 509 00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:52.199 there, but when we were going between Earth and the Moon, we verified 510 00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:57.039 it wasn't our booster and said what was and he said it was a UFO 511 00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:00.360 And he said that NASA told us not to talk about it, and they 512 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:05.639 just talked about it in that recent documentary on I think it was on the 513 00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:09.639 Science Channel. I haven't seen that one. I'll have to check that out. 514 00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:19.199 Were there other early UFL organizations that you worked with? So? Like 515 00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:22.280 I said, I worked with the AIR, a phenomenal research organization and got 516 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:24.679 to know a lot of their consultants and their people, which were really good 517 00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:30.360 people. They had. They had some some tremendous volunteers in that organization and 518 00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:32.840 I really hated to see it go billy up. But it was one of 519 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:40.480 those things that didn't have a strategy for it living after the after the people 520 00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:45.719 that put it together died, you know, they died with them essentially what 521 00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:49.519 happened. And you got to have a succession plan in organizations, you know, 522 00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:52.280 you always have to have that or the organization doesn't last. I mean, 523 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.239 look at at and T if they'd only had a first president, where 524 00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:58.199 would they be today? They would have been out of business, you know, 525 00:40:58.280 --> 00:41:00.360 or United Ireland or any of the rest of them. So it's not 526 00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:05.280 the people that run it forever. It's the people who run it for the 527 00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:08.159 day, and there's always a good group of people backed by a lot of 528 00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:12.960 other people, and you know, that's kind of the important thing. APOR 529 00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:16.000 didn't have that, unfortunately, they wouldn't let their people take the reins and 530 00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:22.039 do something. I never joined Nightcap because I was in APER. In those 531 00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:23.000 days, if you were in one, you couldn't be in the other, 532 00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:28.599 you know, silly rules like that. I never understood that, but I 533 00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:32.159 guess that's an elitist game that some people play. I have formed a uniful, 534 00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:38.360 steady group of Greater Saint Louis in nineteen seventy or so. It's still 535 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:43.280 active today, which I'm pleased to say, a lot of nice people there 536 00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:45.719 that have worked on it and are still there and working on it. It 537 00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:52.679 has diminished in size. But other than that, I've not done too much 538 00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:57.199 with other organizations other than cooperate and give them information whenever they ask. My 539 00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:00.000 whole career, I tried to pump the information out there and I'll keep it 540 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.800 in my hip pocket. And I've done it at my own expense always, 541 00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:08.039 and most people don't even say thank you if they feel like they deserved it, 542 00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:12.239 you know, which is why so many people don't do it. You 543 00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:15.679 know, if people say thanks once in a while, a lot more things 544 00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:19.480 would happen for them. But humans are humans, you know, that's the 545 00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:23.480 way it goes. I did get a request to join the Science Advisory Board 546 00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:29.239 for the National Institute for Discovery Science in Las Vegas, the organization that was 547 00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:34.840 financed and back by Bob Bigelow. I worked with him for several years on 548 00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:40.320 this science board. The board of people that Bob asked to volunteer and do 549 00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:45.960 this, we're just tremendous folks, guys like Halpetoff and lunar astronaut Ed Mitchell, 550 00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:52.440 and several people from Los Alamos Labs, and people from various otherisment like 551 00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:57.760 the FAA. And one of the people was an expert in nuclear science. 552 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:01.679 And so it was a a first group of people that felt it was worth 553 00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:06.039 working together on a subject like this. When they said no scientists work on 554 00:43:06.039 --> 00:43:07.719 this subject, that will laugh. You know. These guys were all a 555 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:14.480 scientists and they were working together gratefully and doing a beautiful job. It was 556 00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:22.960 run by a scientist. A doctor Colum Killinger was the head of NEDS is 557 00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:28.800 a tremendous scientist to himself, mainly a physical science. He's interested in biological 558 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.639 things of cancer and things of that nature. So he did a good job 559 00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:35.679 when it came to looking into kettle mulitions, for instance, they did some 560 00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:43.039 tremendous laboratory analysis that was groundbreaking that other people didn't do. At one time, 561 00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:46.800 one of the abductees in California said that when he came back, when 562 00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:52.280 he went in his closet, he would meet that's where he would meet the 563 00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:54.519 aliens. And when he came back one time, he'd decided he was going 564 00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:59.599 to trap him, so he had put a towel on the floor of something 565 00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:02.280 under so he'd get an indication they were really there. Pretty smart move, 566 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:07.079 actually, And afterwards he found this teeth on there. It looked like a 567 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:10.400 fang, and it turned out it wasn't like anything like any animal thing, 568 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:14.159 not an ape, not a board, or not any of these things. 569 00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:17.119 And it did have a little hair attached to it, and so NIDS ran 570 00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:22.239 a lot of DNA analysis work on it several places. The first place came 571 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:28.320 back and said, there are no matches in a database for this, so 572 00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:36.719 this could be alien. Continued the approach and looking into other scientists said well, 573 00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:39.239 what if this towel was taken to the beach, or what if there 574 00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:42.880 was something picked up on the beach. And they found out that this was 575 00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:46.360 sort of like a dry slug what it turned out to be eventually, and 576 00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:50.519 they did find a mash when they got off into that realm. But you 577 00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:52.880 know, that's the kind of science work they did, and people saw why 578 00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.360 they worked for the government. They cover up stuff. They don't, that's 579 00:44:54.920 --> 00:45:00.239 ludicrous, they don't. There was some secrecy involved in the job. Bigelow 580 00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:05.519 is always a target for lossites because he got deep pockets, and so he 581 00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:08.760 was very careful about what was released and said it was negative. He tried 582 00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:14.079 not to release it, you know, simply that just avoid losses frivolous lawsuits. 583 00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:20.119 But they put the basis of all of their investigations up on their website 584 00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:22.559 for all to see. Again, nobody said thank you, They said what 585 00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:27.119 did you do more? You know that sort of thing. So when people 586 00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:30.159 try to do science in this field, sometimes they are attacked by the non 587 00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:35.280 zcietists that make a lot of noise and give publicity that way, but don't 588 00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:37.719 do any real work. And I don't like that sort of thing. I 589 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:43.079 think it's just it's a stupid let me put it bluntly. They can do 590 00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:47.400 a lot more with cooperation. Yeah, that's a difficult part of the field 591 00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:52.079 is you know, there seems to be a lot of fighting and bickering back 592 00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:55.559 and forth. But I think what people don't see is just that the people 593 00:45:55.559 --> 00:46:00.159 who are bickering are the louder people. They're the people who are making more 594 00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:05.079 annoyes where the real researchers are quieter. They just got their nose in their 595 00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:09.440 research and they're getting that data out with NIDS. What are they still around 596 00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:16.159 today? Are they still doing things? No, this went dormant. It's 597 00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:21.000 not out of business, per say, but it's dormant. And doctor Keller 598 00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:24.960 who left NIDS a year or so ago and went into cancer research in California 599 00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:28.840 his first love, by the way, so it was a natural thing for 600 00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.480 him to do. But the reason they did that was they were there mainly 601 00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:37.800 for physical evidence, not just reports of ufol of licensed sky and that sort 602 00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:40.920 of thing. They got to the point they weren't getting any good physical evidence 603 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:45.599 cases. Bob Bigelill said, you know, guys go out there and cooperate 604 00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:49.239 with people and find ways of getting in the good cases. And they were 605 00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:52.519 still weren't able to get any that they could take to a laboratory and analyzed. 606 00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:54.079 During that period of time. He said, well, this is a 607 00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:59.360 waste of time. And he got into the aerospace business and organized big oe 608 00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:04.320 O Aospace, decided he would build hotels for space, and he took up 609 00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:07.519 the idea of inflatable vehicles, and he has done some marvelous work. I've 610 00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:12.400 gone out and viewed the work he's done, his development, his design, 611 00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:17.800 his facilities he's built for it. They're all just a plus work. He's 612 00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:21.280 got good people, he got a small staff. He's going to launch this 613 00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:27.000 probably this year, his first test hotel into space, which I have flooding 614 00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:29.239 for. So he said, I'm just going to put my time and my 615 00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:32.679 effort, my money into that until unless, or until something else comes along 616 00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:37.079 in the uf ful field is worthwhile. So he didn't tell the files away, 617 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:38.239 and he didn't do all that. They just put it in a DRMA 618 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:43.079 stage. I'm sure if something really good came up, and once he gets 619 00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:46.239 his hotels up from that sort of thing, he probably returned to it. 620 00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:52.400 Yeah, I think what's mean about that whole field and the commercialization of space 621 00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:58.960 and what Bert Rittan is doing is that lots of those space programs they've seen 622 00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:04.360 things find around up there. So if we have people civilians out there permanently, 623 00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:07.000 I think the odds are then increase that they're going to be seeing things 624 00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:15.119 up there. But with physical cases, since I've been involved with mouf On 625 00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:19.639 and in the research I've done and what I've read in the past mouf On 626 00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:22.400 research, it doesn't seem that physical case has come along very often. I 627 00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:28.719 can only think of one. Are there any many physical cases that you guys 628 00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:32.519 have run across over the years. There have been hundreds of them. I 629 00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:36.599 mean, just look at the work the tenth Phillips did on landing choice cases. 630 00:48:36.679 --> 00:48:38.679 I mean he had some five thousand landing choice cases and he has some 631 00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:42.639 new ones today. In fact, Taylor will be speaking at the mouf On 632 00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:46.119 Symposium in July of this year endeavor. He's going to bring some of that 633 00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:51.039 new physical choice evidence to us, and I think that people are going to 634 00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:52.960 be fascinated about what they got because t is an old timer in the field. 635 00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:58.719 He's started the research into physical choices. He helped develop the techniques for 636 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:04.719 laboratory analysis of them. He had developed the documentation techniques for physical trace cases, 637 00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:07.440 and now he's still doing it, and I applaud him for that. 638 00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:12.960 They were not as many as there were, and I'm not sure why that 639 00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.880 is, but I have a theory. My theory is that the UFO field 640 00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:21.039 evolves with time. I left he back to eighteen ninety seven when they the 641 00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:24.880 airships were flying those essentially where a UFO people say, well, oh, 642 00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.519 it was a liar's society and made those stories up and things like that. 643 00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:34.440 If you do personal research into it, you'll find that's not true. That's 644 00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:36.840 nice, the nice way to answer it if you want to debunk it. 645 00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:40.519 But if you really look and see what happened in March April May of eighteen 646 00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:45.400 ninety seven, there were literally hundreds of these sightings. They were not connected 647 00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:50.119 by television or radio or things like that at the time. They did get 648 00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:54.199 into the newspaper, but always several days to weeks afterwards. So while they 649 00:49:54.199 --> 00:50:00.880 were happening, there's no way people could communicate together to across the country and 650 00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:06.559 across the Central States in particular, to duplicate things. It just couldn't be 651 00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:10.119 done. And I did do the research on that because I was fascinated by 652 00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:14.559 it. I'm still fascinated by it, by the way, and I think 653 00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:17.000 there was a treasure trove of information there that a lot of people ignored us 654 00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:22.559 simply called this hold. But then you look on through the different eras we 655 00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:30.239 had, the eras of physical medical injuries and people. We had several years 656 00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:34.880 where that was prevalent. We had several years where car stoppings were prevalent, 657 00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:37.400 you know, like a decade or so. They started as far they build 658 00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:40.480 up fast, and there were lots of them. There was data taken, 659 00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:44.840 the cars were actually analyzed, that sort of thing. Then they dropped off. 660 00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:46.639 The same with the medical evidence. There were hundreds and hundreds of cases 661 00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:52.199 where people had physiological responses to UFOs. They still do on occasion, but 662 00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:58.000 not like that era which ended in the eighties. There was the era of 663 00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:00.639 the abductions, and I say the era of it. We're still having them, 664 00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:06.800 but there was a large surge at one point in time with a tremendous 665 00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:09.800 amount of that that was done in an awful lot of good evidence taken by 666 00:51:10.039 --> 00:51:15.760 the real researchers in the field. It's just it's sort of like there are 667 00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:19.440 ways of Bigfoot and there are ways of other things. You know, there's 668 00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:22.559 an evolution in this. And I keep saying if we could kind of be 669 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:27.519 futurists and say, well, if it evolved this way in these steps, 670 00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:30.599 what's the next step. What should we be looking for? When the big 671 00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:35.920 triangles started being seen in nineteen seventy four, nobody was ready for that. 672 00:51:36.280 --> 00:51:40.480 We weren't flying triangular aircraft. Then. Even after we started flying the stealth 673 00:51:40.519 --> 00:51:45.639 in the late eighties and the people were seeing that on occasion, that didn't 674 00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:49.679 explain the large triangle. The B two bomber doesn't explain the yards triangles. 675 00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:52.320 Some people were trying to say, well, the B two bomber has anti 676 00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:54.679 gravity systems on it. Well, if you want to be highly technical, 677 00:51:54.719 --> 00:51:59.159 ever had a plane that flies as an anti gravity system because it overcomes gravity 678 00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:02.159 to get off the ground. If you're talking about having a system that nullifies 679 00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:06.519 gravity to get off the ground, you're kidding yourself. I've been hearing this 680 00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:09.119 for fifty years. It's always a black program. It's only it's just a 681 00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:12.719 big black program out there, and that's why you don't know what it is. 682 00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:16.280 But never do you ever see anything come out after the black program that 683 00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:22.760 supposedly ends it can explain it. Not one situation. At one time, 684 00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:30.400 the CIA said, well, the UFOs really were the U two aircraft flying 685 00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:36.079 to sixty thousand feet. Well, none of the reports we got, zero 686 00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:38.880 were from sixty thousand feet. Most of them were from five hundred to year 687 00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:42.440 on the ground or near the ground, that sort of thing. Even though 688 00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:46.599 the CIA said that explained to UFOs, it didn't. Nobody reported that because 689 00:52:46.639 --> 00:52:50.880 you couldn't see it. You know, you had radar, you could track 690 00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:54.480 it, but you and the she had intercepps that were made by our air 691 00:52:54.519 --> 00:52:59.039 Force and Navy and marine pilots over the years. None of those were U 692 00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:05.320 two's. None of those were black programmed things. These were things that the 693 00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:08.480 experts of the day could not explain and still can't today. And I still 694 00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:13.920 say that's a treasure trove of information. You have one general that says, 695 00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:19.079 well, I was flying this aircraft along with these people, and we picked 696 00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:22.000 up on radar something we had checked with the ground and ground and also attracted 697 00:53:22.039 --> 00:53:27.480 it and told us what they were, what they were painting. We dore 698 00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:30.000 at it, We couldn't catch it. It took off and left us enter 699 00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:32.639 tracks and threw out a sight that still happens today. You just don't hear 700 00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:37.079 much about it to day because of the Patriot Act. You know, they 701 00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:39.239 can't talk about it now. So it's it's a good way of covering up 702 00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:45.639 UFOL cases as well un personally. So you know, it's a wild world 703 00:53:45.639 --> 00:53:51.159 of UFOs out there. The stuff is real, and I'd like to say 704 00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:54.320 one thing. UFOs are not everything that's seen in the sky. The UFO 705 00:53:54.440 --> 00:54:00.119 to me is something that's still unidentified after its properly investigated, so that eliminates 706 00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:04.559 the lice and the sky and the hoaxes and anything else of that nature. 707 00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:10.199 And it's that residual that is unexplainable totally. That becomes an unconventional flying object. 708 00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:15.559 And it's not something we're building, and it hasn't been something we've been 709 00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:19.000 building for the last fifty years. I wish we were. That's why I 710 00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:22.079 got involved, by the way, I wanted to build this sort of thing. 711 00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:24.360 I wanted to get rid of fire breathing rockets, and go to a 712 00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:31.280 technology that's environmentally friendly and by the way, will help us survive on this 713 00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:37.000 earth because oil is going to run out. The technology is there. We 714 00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:40.280 just get people to have a Manhattan project where we could develop it probably in 715 00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:47.000 less than five years. Wanted that talks that I heard you do before was 716 00:54:47.039 --> 00:54:51.199 on implants, and that was one of the best soocks I've heard on implants, 717 00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:54.360 and you had the same theme. How implants have also been evolving and 718 00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:59.440 changing over time. Can you talk a little bit on that. Yeah, 719 00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:05.559 implants are an interesting facet that's one piece of information and an abduction case that 720 00:55:05.719 --> 00:55:08.800 is physically real that you can take to the bank or take to the laboratory. 721 00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:14.760 I should say, when somebody says, you know, there's something under 722 00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:17.360 my skin and it bothers me someone people even say, well, I can 723 00:55:17.360 --> 00:55:22.960 feel this intensely just before an abduction. You know, there was all kinds 724 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:28.480 of things claims made by people or they say, you know, I had 725 00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:32.559 this subduction experience and I had nosebleed for four or five days. Michael Linda 726 00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:37.079 Cortiel case in New York when they had the abduction out of their apartment way 727 00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:40.199 up high in the air, out the wind and up to the craft, 728 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:45.519 their son and a son's friend that was there that night, and I'd bleed. 729 00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:51.079 The husband also all had nose bleeds afterwards, not a normal nose bleed, 730 00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:54.840 but because something was done. Well, you know that begs the question, 731 00:55:54.960 --> 00:56:00.280 Well, if there was physical evidence from that abduction case, let's get 732 00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:04.920 the laboratory. So various people have taken pieces of material out of abductees. 733 00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:07.679 And you call me experiencers if you want to me, they're still an abduct 734 00:56:07.719 --> 00:56:12.039 either somebody that was taken against their will. They were abducted, you know 735 00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:17.440 how you want to put it, And that's not right. And if you 736 00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:22.559 look at the implants that have been removed, they seem to have evolved over 737 00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:29.119 time. And when we were starting to get these first implant reports, that 738 00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:34.119 wasn't the technology that was used by humans. You know today you say implant 739 00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:38.760 their implants to avoid pregnancy, their implants for hearing, their implants for keeping 740 00:56:38.760 --> 00:56:44.519 your heart going, their implants for everything. The implants they put in the 741 00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:47.159 ears of animals, farm animals to identify they are in the pets so you 742 00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:52.119 can find them if they get lost. These are all different than what was 743 00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:57.159 originally seen. None of these existed back in the early days when abductees are 744 00:56:57.159 --> 00:57:00.639 reporting implants and various medical people removing them. Sometimes they just came out on 745 00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:06.000 their own. And then so if you look at what came out, it 746 00:57:06.039 --> 00:57:08.159 didn't seem to make any sense. And some a few of them had little 747 00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:14.320 microscopic level things that look like little wires attached to them and things like that, 748 00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:15.639 but most of them were pretty blase, and you say, well, 749 00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:19.800 how could that do anything? Well, how do we know if you're looking 750 00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:22.119 at a technology that's ten years, one hundred years, thousand years, ten 751 00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:25.119 thousand years ahead of us, maybe it doesn't have to look like something we 752 00:57:25.159 --> 00:57:29.840 wanted to look like to be useful. And so I say, all throw 753 00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:32.440 away just because you don't understand it. Wait for the technology to catch up. 754 00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:36.840 Well, the technology of implants has caught up, and in fact, 755 00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:39.199 humans are making them for everything. They put them in your garments, they 756 00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:44.159 put them in your books, you know, and everything today. But they're 757 00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:50.360 a lot more sophisticated. They are a little printed circuits essentially in each case, 758 00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:53.599 and some can some are this pass even sitting there. Others are acting 759 00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:58.239 with an antenna. You know, there's all kinds of them today, but 760 00:57:58.280 --> 00:58:02.000 they have definitely evolved and they're very rapidly. Once humans started using this technology, 761 00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:07.559 you say, well, was that stimulated by the implants and abductees? 762 00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:10.119 You know, somewhere along the line it had to be somewhat stimulated by that. 763 00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:13.679 Somebody got to say, well, these people are saying, is why 764 00:58:13.719 --> 00:58:16.400 don't we do this? You know, frankly, I wouldn't particularly want to 765 00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:21.800 be implanted myself by humans or anybody else, but there are lots of people 766 00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:25.039 will go get that done, and I think in another ten to fifteen years 767 00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:31.199 you'll see all humans implanted with an ID national ID implant, regardless of what 768 00:58:31.239 --> 00:58:35.760 country they're in. It's coming. It's going to shake people up, but 769 00:58:35.800 --> 00:58:40.320 it's one of those evolutions that we're going to see. Yeah, which is 770 00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:45.840 unfortunate because that times we implement sciences before we even understand them. But I 771 00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:50.639 also, you know, this talk reminds me of a document that I read 772 00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:55.239 of yours, that you wrote in the seventies about the science regarding that the 773 00:58:55.320 --> 00:59:00.920 objects we're seeing that they're displaying these technologies that are beyond us, but because 774 00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:06.440 they exist, they're exhibiting that that science exists. And that we should move 775 00:59:06.440 --> 00:59:08.960 in that direction. It seems there were a lot of people in that time 776 00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:12.519 period, in the early days at the UFO that were thinking that way, 777 00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:16.239 scientists when they were thinking more scientifically about the subject. Do you think that 778 00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:21.840 worked. Do you think people started moving in those directions because of the sightings? 779 00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:25.719 Well, I'm sure the people that did the actual work was saying, 780 00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:30.159 Oh, that's ridiculous. I thought of it. It was my brainstorm. 781 00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:32.719 You know. That's always the case. Then when you look at any major 782 00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:37.599 breakthrough in science, it usually doesn't happen in one laboratory. Suddenly it pops 783 00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:40.360 out in a half a dozen different parts of the world. We've seen that 784 00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:44.320 over and over and over. You got to say a little bit, well, 785 00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:46.440 why is that there's something else stimulated? And I think there was a 786 00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:52.519 stimulus. It was a stimulus for me to get involved in the UFO research 787 00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:57.440 simply because I wanted to see propulsion technology modified. I still want to see 788 00:59:57.440 --> 01:00:00.920 that. I'm hoping it happens while I'm still around. If it doesn't, 789 01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:06.159 we humans are going to be the losers because the Earth can't sustain us with 790 01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:12.639 the right we're going I guess along those lines, and there's lots of talk 791 01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:17.280 guid the scientist's name who's really big on this allude to me, But there's 792 01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:22.440 of course Bob Lazara, not to what Stephen Greer talks about. With the 793 01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:25.559 zero point energy and the zero point technologies, Do you believe that exists? 794 01:00:25.639 --> 01:00:30.000 You believe we're getting close to that or is there any big money being thrown 795 01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:35.760 at that right now? Well, it's hard to say what kind of money's 796 01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:38.920 being thrown at it the military laboratories and the like, But I can tell 797 01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:45.119 you one of the leading proponents of zero point energy is doctor hell put Off. 798 01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:47.960 I think put Off is probably one of the best scientists that this earth 799 01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:52.079 has ever seen. He is a good guy. He works hard, He 800 01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:58.639 is a brilliant man. He has the scientific and mathematical capability to do things 801 01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:00.880 like this, and so he doesn't He doesn't just rest on his laurel and 802 01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:05.400 throw out some books to make some money. He really gets into research on 803 01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:07.719 a constant basis. And so a lot of other people have picked up one. 804 01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:12.480 Zero point energy. Yeah, sure, I think it exists. There's 805 01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:15.719 pretty darn good evidence if you look at the scientific evidence of it harnessing it. 806 01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:21.440 There is another whole thing. You know, how we harness that and 807 01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:25.400 with today's technology is a good is a real big question. And I don't 808 01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:30.239 think we're anywhere near having that harnessed yet. I think we know a lot 809 01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:34.960 about it on the papers I've read. I'm really fascinated about how much we 810 01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:38.840 do know. But putting it in the back of your forward and going into 811 01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:45.519 space, and it's not not anywhere near that point yet. You know, 812 01:01:45.639 --> 01:01:47.679 with how I put off in a scientist, you wor you made a statement 813 01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:52.360 earlier that which is true. The media and all of these documentaries they talked 814 01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:55.519 about there's no scientists working in these fields. There's no scientists paying attention to 815 01:01:55.559 --> 01:01:59.760 you for us. But as you've experienced, you about your life, and 816 01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:02.599 there are lots of scientists working on this. Why you think they say that? 817 01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:07.440 Is it because they're not an academic you know, universities working on it? 818 01:02:07.559 --> 01:02:10.480 Or why would they say that? And why doesn't that information get out? 819 01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:15.320 Well you always hear that from people who want to debunk the UFO mystery. 820 01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:19.320 You know, they say there are no scientists involved. If that's not 821 01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:23.119 scientific, Well, what's not scientific is debunking? You know, if you're 822 01:02:23.199 --> 01:02:29.360 willing to take a set of evidence and ignore all the points that don't fit 823 01:02:29.519 --> 01:02:34.320 your what you think if the answer should be, then you can debunk it. 824 01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:37.360 And that's what the debunkers do. They very seldom work with facts. 825 01:02:37.719 --> 01:02:43.000 They work within uendos. They make statements like no scientists get involved, so 826 01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:44.639 a lot of science said, well, I don't want to get involved in 827 01:02:44.679 --> 01:02:49.039 no scientists get involved. So it's really a way of laying the hammer down 828 01:02:49.159 --> 01:02:52.280 on people. But it's not true. A Mofon has three hundred scientists that 829 01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:58.280 volunteer with Moffon that are involved in this and are interested in this. NIDS 830 01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:01.079 had the Science Advisory Board, which will a dozen people or so. But 831 01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:06.480 AFRIL, way back when AFRO was in existence, they had dozens and dozens 832 01:03:06.519 --> 01:03:09.039 of scientists that were doing work. And back in those days, I can't 833 01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:14.280 have scientists. And each of the small groups around the day has some scientific 834 01:03:14.360 --> 01:03:19.800 expertise involved, so there are a lot of scientists. What the real truth 835 01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:23.039 is, however, is that scientists generally don't get paid to work in this 836 01:03:23.159 --> 01:03:29.599 field. If you would show me, say a billion dollars of research money 837 01:03:29.599 --> 01:03:35.000 that could be dolled out by any agency for UFO research, Those same debunkers 838 01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:38.199 would be the first people in line to get that money, because that's what 839 01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:44.199 they like, is his money. He's not science for the sake of science, 840 01:03:44.239 --> 01:03:49.679 and I think it's really sad. But on the other hand, if 841 01:03:49.719 --> 01:03:52.159 there was that kind of money, who would be the person that aimed it 842 01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:55.920 and guided it for want? Would it be still people that have a religious 843 01:03:55.960 --> 01:04:00.760 bent that want to prove ufols or any religious therefore they would build the science 844 01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:05.599 that direction. Are the people that are politically bent that say, well, 845 01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:10.360 that would undermine all the people that have covered that up in our government, 846 01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:15.360 and that would bring the government down. You just started hypothesizing all these situations, 847 01:04:15.719 --> 01:04:19.280 and you'll find there was no simple answer. There's no simple answer anywhere 848 01:04:19.280 --> 01:04:25.840 in this field, and it has become so muddied because of these negative things 849 01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:29.880 that have been done over the years, which really are akin to dirty tricks. 850 01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:32.159 Richard Dixon would have worked for will in this field. I mean dirty 851 01:04:32.199 --> 01:04:35.480 tricks. It's fine, And that's the sort of people that are doing these 852 01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:39.400 things today. I have very little respect for those people, so I just 853 01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:45.079 avoid them. That reminds me of the Keyhole book. I just got done 854 01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:49.119 reading one of them. I think it's aliens are real. And in his 855 01:04:49.239 --> 01:04:54.800 book he goes over the history of the military involvement and some scientific involvement, 856 01:04:55.159 --> 01:04:59.239 some real high level people that were involved in trying to get the information out. 857 01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:05.159 He talks about organizations like the CIA would shut up the different services, 858 01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:10.119 and that the CIA had some sort of involvement. Do you believe, like 859 01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:15.119 in that Majestic twelve, like there is some sort of control group spending money 860 01:05:15.159 --> 01:05:19.679 on this, they're just not giving the information to the public. Well, 861 01:05:19.719 --> 01:05:24.880 if you sent a requestion to some agency with federal government, you will get 862 01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:29.599 a form letter back that says that the federal government hasn't been involved in UFO 863 01:05:29.800 --> 01:05:32.800 since Project Bluebook closed, and that was after the end of the Condon report 864 01:05:32.840 --> 01:05:38.000 in nineteen sixty eight. That's, by the way, is when MUFFON came 865 01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:41.599 into existence in nineteen sixty nine. Because these people said they are no place 866 01:05:41.639 --> 01:05:45.679 to report. Savilians couldn't report anymore. Literally, there was no place to 867 01:05:45.719 --> 01:05:49.360 go. They were just given idiot treatment. That didn't mean UFO siding stopped. 868 01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:53.480 It just meant they didn't have any place doing so. MUFON came into 869 01:05:53.559 --> 01:05:58.639 being. However, that doesn't really mean that much. Otherwise, What is 870 01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:02.119 the baseline of this whole thing is that the government is still taking data. 871 01:06:02.800 --> 01:06:09.840 If you look at documents that we have leally received the Freedom of Information Act 872 01:06:10.360 --> 01:06:14.559 off of government websites, mainly before nine to eleven. Unfortunately, in two 873 01:06:14.599 --> 01:06:19.920 thousand and one it showed tons and tons of documents that were distributed to most 874 01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:26.320 government agencies on UFOs right up to when they close those front access to those 875 01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:30.880 files after nine to eleven. That was a long waist in nineteen sixty eight, 876 01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:34.320 and some of the agencies listed, for instance, where the CIA, 877 01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:45.880 the NSSAY, the Secretary of State, the rooms in the White House they 878 01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:51.440 call the operation centers, each of the major military branch heads chiefs of staff. 879 01:06:51.960 --> 01:06:56.800 If there's nothing to this, why are those reports distributed to those people, 880 01:06:57.039 --> 01:06:59.639 even though they're telling you they're not and they're not getting them, they 881 01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:03.400 are are. So this is still very real today. It's just that they 882 01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:12.440 use a civilian that aren't entitled to know it. With some of the rumors 883 01:07:12.440 --> 01:07:15.719 that go around about what's going on, because of course, like you said, 884 01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:20.559 they're gathering information, but why who what? Unfortunately is not available to 885 01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:24.360 us. Some of the rumors out there. I just wanted to talk about. 886 01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:30.280 One of the rumors is around a group called the Aviary, and lots 887 01:07:30.280 --> 01:07:33.400 of move on heads are said to be part of this group, and people 888 01:07:33.440 --> 01:07:41.079 don't understand what this is and they make these sometimes claims that they're involved with 889 01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:45.039 these control groups of CIA and MJ twelve. Can you shed any light on 890 01:07:45.119 --> 01:07:49.079 that group? Well, silly as it sounds, I was never able to 891 01:07:49.079 --> 01:07:54.000 get into the av area. I asked people, how do you do this? 892 01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:57.679 I want to rebel those with these guys, you know, because they're 893 01:07:57.679 --> 01:08:02.800 interesting people. It really started with Bill more. Bill Moore had this what 894 01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:09.400 do you call it, an invisible college of people from various organizations that were 895 01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:14.800 well named people that were interested in UFOs, that worked together and they gave 896 01:08:14.840 --> 01:08:16.720 each of them a bird name so they didn't use their real names, and 897 01:08:16.760 --> 01:08:20.760 they communicated because as soon as you give a real name, somebody's going to 898 01:08:20.840 --> 01:08:27.000 dump on you, that's the bottom line. And people involved in that were 899 01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:32.800 neat people. How Proof was one of the AVIARYA kid Green Cia was one 900 01:08:32.800 --> 01:08:36.000 of the avi Area. There are people like that that. There were nice 901 01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:40.920 people. They did the hard work just because they worked for an organization didn't 902 01:08:40.920 --> 01:08:45.479 make them bad. You know, quite often somebody says, well, you 903 01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:47.159 know and move on. We know that you got this guy that was an 904 01:08:47.199 --> 01:08:51.479 Air Force person. Well sure, we got people from every walk of life 905 01:08:51.479 --> 01:08:55.359 and we welcome it. Just because they were in the Air Force, or 906 01:08:55.359 --> 01:08:59.439 in the Army, or in the Navy, or worked for an agencies of 907 01:08:59.560 --> 01:09:02.359 some kind doesn't mean they're bad people, and it probably means that they're smart 908 01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:06.560 enough to know this is worth working on after they leave those jobs. So 909 01:09:08.319 --> 01:09:12.960 I'm very open to anybody from any organization that wants to join. I'm all 910 01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:15.840 for it. If they got guts enough to step out and do it, 911 01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:18.079 I've got guts enough to accept them. That's what it comes down to. 912 01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:25.840 I've never been burned by it. I think it's a good thing. Do 913 01:09:25.920 --> 01:09:30.239 you just were if you were going in for a brain operation, would you 914 01:09:30.279 --> 01:09:32.840 want to go to get you a couple of local doctors out of produn junction 915 01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:34.680 and have them operated on your brain? And would you want to go to 916 01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:39.239 the people who are really been working in brains. That's what I like to 917 01:09:39.279 --> 01:09:42.039 the analogy. I'd like to look at here. You've got people that have 918 01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:46.239 been in agencies that have taken the data air Force General or Air Force Kernel 919 01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:51.520 or something that recorded watched the radar scopes and made the reports on the radar 920 01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:58.119 cases. I really welcomed them to say something and step out. And I 921 01:09:58.159 --> 01:10:00.880 find it ludicrous that people say, well, you can't trust them because they 922 01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:02.640 used to be in the Air Force. God, those people keep us alive 923 01:10:02.720 --> 01:10:08.439 and keep our enemies off our back. So yeah, they're trustworthy people. 924 01:10:09.319 --> 01:10:14.239 If there's one or two that has an untoward goal, so be it. 925 01:10:14.760 --> 01:10:16.760 And I think we've had some of those that have joined our organization from time 926 01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:19.640 to time, but they eventually drop out because it doesn't worth their time to 927 01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:25.560 pester us. There's another aspect of this too, when they close project with 928 01:10:25.720 --> 01:10:30.439 Book and Condon's Edward Connon and the Condon report said there's nothing of science value 929 01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:33.960 to be gained from the further study of UFOs. Well, that was a 930 01:10:34.039 --> 01:10:38.640 lie. First off, he did not read the report. He just made 931 01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:43.399 his answer up the way he was supposed to. There is something to be 932 01:10:43.479 --> 01:10:46.640 gained from it, and it will continue to be something to be gained from 933 01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:53.319 it. That's a political answer. Political answers I have no use for. 934 01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:57.840 By the way. I've dealt with a lot of politicians in my life, 935 01:10:57.840 --> 01:11:01.079 through the space program and through other things. Lots of them are really good 936 01:11:01.119 --> 01:11:04.159 people, but a lot of them have to tour a party line that, 937 01:11:05.159 --> 01:11:09.439 just like with UFO, is there's nothing there, therefore we can't talk about 938 01:11:09.439 --> 01:11:14.800 it. Well. Sometimes some congressmen don't agree with that. I had a 939 01:11:14.840 --> 01:11:19.800 meeting with the Congressman Tom Tancredo here in Colorado, and the reason we had 940 01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:23.840 it was that was when stanroman next case came up, and Stanle had come 941 01:11:23.880 --> 01:11:28.520 to our office and said, you know, I had this sighting, I 942 01:11:28.560 --> 01:11:31.760 made videotape and I've been abducted. And this was a time when we were 943 01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:35.119 going to release that information. And Tan Credo was in our district here where 944 01:11:35.119 --> 01:11:39.359 our headquarters was. So I said, you want to be briefed on what 945 01:11:39.439 --> 01:11:43.159 we're doing, and he said sure, And so I went over there and 946 01:11:43.279 --> 01:11:47.239 sat with him for about an hour and his chief scientific aid, and I 947 01:11:47.239 --> 01:11:49.840 said, you know, this is happening in your district. You should be 948 01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:51.920 aware of it, you should be interested in it, and he said I 949 01:11:51.960 --> 01:12:00.520 am. And it turned out that his aid had researched all of the weird 950 01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:05.560 documents and knew implicitly who these people were that were in the government that said 951 01:12:05.640 --> 01:12:10.600 that they had been involved in the UFOs in tan Creole had been briefed and 952 01:12:11.319 --> 01:12:15.479 he asked questions showing that he understood this mystery. He understood it was a 953 01:12:15.520 --> 01:12:20.439 problem, and then at the end he asked me one question that I wasn't 954 01:12:20.439 --> 01:12:26.399 prepared for. He said, what can I do for you? And I 955 01:12:26.520 --> 01:12:30.159 was flabbergast because I didn't expect him to even listen to me. And they 956 01:12:30.199 --> 01:12:32.880 didn't give him a good answer, quite honestly, but the man was interested. 957 01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:35.199 He didn't know about it, and it was obviously if he knew, 958 01:12:35.239 --> 01:12:42.760 the other congressmen knew, but you know, he's enough of a rebel that 959 01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:46.600 he was willing to tackle it. And I never heard anything more. And 960 01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:50.600 then this last year I went up and Clifford Cliff, one of our board 961 01:12:50.600 --> 01:12:58.000 members, arranged a meeting with Senator Allard, and again Allard was aware. 962 01:12:58.079 --> 01:13:00.600 He's on the Space Committee, so he's aware space and space activities and that 963 01:13:00.680 --> 01:13:05.720 sort of thing, and he offered the help that since then I think he 964 01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:10.359 found out he couldn't because we haven't been able to get any help. But 965 01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:15.399 during the meeting. He was aware of the situation, and he said he 966 01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:18.000 was willing to help us. I told him, and I said, you 967 01:13:18.079 --> 01:13:24.800 know, we are a database that is far excellent. We have investigators in 968 01:13:24.840 --> 01:13:28.399 the field. We have people to see things, that know things. You 969 01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:34.680 have what you call a new intelligence organization, which is based on the Patriot 970 01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:39.640 Act. I said, but there are things that you're missing. I said, 971 01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:42.800 in fact, the week before, just the week before I met with 972 01:13:42.880 --> 01:13:45.600 him, I said, did you know right here in your district, in 973 01:13:45.640 --> 01:13:49.920 your hometown, there was a UFO siding of a large triangular object flying at 974 01:13:49.960 --> 01:13:56.399 less than five hundred feet over people's heads that were witnessed. And I said, 975 01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:59.439 it's right down the street from where we're meeting here in northern Colorado. 976 01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:02.720 He didn't know about that. I said, that's an example. I said, 977 01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:06.239 your patriarch people should have known that was there. We knew it was 978 01:14:06.279 --> 01:14:12.239 there, and we're willing to share that information. We make everything we get 979 01:14:12.359 --> 01:14:15.720 public. So he was kind of I think he was kind of impressed with 980 01:14:15.800 --> 01:14:18.520 that. He spent quite a bit of time with us, which is a 981 01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:23.520 lot for a senator to do. So there are people in the government that 982 01:14:23.600 --> 01:14:26.920 are good people that would do something if the politics were right for them to 983 01:14:26.960 --> 01:14:29.760 do it, and I don't know how we get it into that position. 984 01:14:30.399 --> 01:14:32.680 We're living in a very hostile world with a lot of dirty des going on, 985 01:14:33.760 --> 01:14:41.279 and the protection from that kind of override science and freedoms, and there's 986 01:14:41.279 --> 01:14:44.760 got to be a balance truck somewhere in one of these days, and we 987 01:14:44.800 --> 01:14:49.600 have move understanding by it to jump in and that balance is struck. Actually, 988 01:14:49.640 --> 01:14:53.479 you know when I joined, that's one of the things that lend credibility 989 01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:56.359 to this whole thing, and including move On, is that there are a 990 01:14:56.479 --> 01:15:01.399 lot of ex government people involved with move On more current they're still working in 991 01:15:01.439 --> 01:15:06.319 government projects, or there's still a policeman, or there's still in the reserves. 992 01:15:06.359 --> 01:15:11.399 We have a lot of Air Force, we have EXCIA. You know, 993 01:15:11.439 --> 01:15:14.720 we had Darryl Simms was the first interview I've posted so far. He 994 01:15:14.800 --> 01:15:18.079 worked for the CIA. There's a local You're going to speak at a group 995 01:15:18.159 --> 01:15:21.840 next week, and the gentleman heading up that group is a great guy. 996 01:15:23.079 --> 01:15:27.319 Rick Nelson was used to work for Intelligence. A lot of people, and 997 01:15:27.359 --> 01:15:31.720 I think it's great because they have skills that I can learn from because I 998 01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:34.960 don't come from these backgrounds, and I'm learning a lot from these people. 999 01:15:35.479 --> 01:15:38.800 But the factor, just like you brought up at the end, is the 1000 01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:44.079 fear. I've found. There's so much fear in this field with people getting 1001 01:15:44.119 --> 01:15:48.520 involved. Everybody's fearful of everyone and everyone's background, whether they're military or where 1002 01:15:48.560 --> 01:15:54.720 they come from. But also I find a lot of deep seated fear in 1003 01:15:54.920 --> 01:15:59.079 these investigations i've done. Now that I've been able to get a few done, 1004 01:15:59.239 --> 01:16:01.479 a lot of these people, people including friends of mine, Where people 1005 01:16:01.520 --> 01:16:04.920 I know who see something, they may want to let me know that they 1006 01:16:04.960 --> 01:16:08.560 saw something. Holy cow, what is this? I didn't even believe you 1007 01:16:08.600 --> 01:16:12.680 that these things existed, but they're too afraid even to report to us. 1008 01:16:12.680 --> 01:16:19.159 Just a lot of fear. Well, it's hard to come up with an 1009 01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:23.880 answer for that, but I have a feeling about it. I think the 1010 01:16:23.960 --> 01:16:29.039 fear is based on years of cover up where people were made fun of along 1011 01:16:29.079 --> 01:16:33.640 the way, they were ridiculed. They give an honest report and an honest 1012 01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:40.720 answer, and then some dishonest debunker or official comes out with an answer that's 1013 01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:44.560 just ludicrous and makes them look stupid. People don't like to look stupid. 1014 01:16:45.039 --> 01:16:47.840 I don't care where you were who you are, where your male, female, 1015 01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:50.680 child, adult, older on. You don't like to look stupid, 1016 01:16:51.039 --> 01:16:54.239 and so you think somebody going to make you look that way, You're going 1017 01:16:54.239 --> 01:16:57.840 to head your bed. And that's the way it works every time. And 1018 01:16:57.920 --> 01:17:01.079 so that's a really good weapon that's used to that's doing good work, is 1019 01:17:01.159 --> 01:17:04.319 that they levered that on people, and people say, well, what's going 1020 01:17:04.399 --> 01:17:10.239 to happen. Well, I can tell you now that I have never been 1021 01:17:10.319 --> 01:17:15.560 threatened by anybody. I did have one run in once, but never as 1022 01:17:15.560 --> 01:17:18.199 a result of working this and working in the space buiness. You think I 1023 01:17:18.239 --> 01:17:21.960 would have gotten run over the steamroller. I didn't. In fact, when 1024 01:17:21.960 --> 01:17:27.960 I worked at the Johnson Space Center, I spoke to every major technical society 1025 01:17:28.079 --> 01:17:30.720 at the center, and I spoke to lots of brown bag lunches of workers 1026 01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:36.800 from the center. I never once spoke to the high level management office people. 1027 01:17:38.840 --> 01:17:43.039 They avoided it like the plague. But everybody at the lower level had 1028 01:17:43.079 --> 01:17:45.520 a high interest. They were good people, they believe it's real. A 1029 01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:49.279 lot of them had heard things, they'd seen things, they knew of cases 1030 01:17:49.319 --> 01:17:55.520 that were wild and that sort of thing. But again they didn't want it 1031 01:17:55.560 --> 01:17:58.920 told outside of their for fear of those higher level people that didn't want to 1032 01:17:58.960 --> 01:18:02.119 talk about it would do to them in their jobs. I don't know of 1033 01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:06.800 many cases where that happened, but the fear is there. And if you 1034 01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:11.560 have a fear, whether it's rational or not, it doesn't matter. And 1035 01:18:11.640 --> 01:18:15.479 I always dealt it with it this way. I dealt with it openly. 1036 01:18:15.600 --> 01:18:17.319 I dealt with it honestly. I said what I was going to do. 1037 01:18:17.439 --> 01:18:20.760 I did what I said I was going to do. I didn't try to 1038 01:18:20.760 --> 01:18:26.920 make trouble for other people. That wasn't my purpose. My purpose was gaining 1039 01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:31.720 technological information. And I still have that purpose today. And that's one reason 1040 01:18:32.039 --> 01:18:34.600 I treat people the way I do. I try to treat them nicely and 1041 01:18:34.640 --> 01:18:40.600 move on, because these are people that merit one extra steff of being treated 1042 01:18:40.720 --> 01:18:45.239 nicely because they overcame that fear and they joined and they decided to do something. 1043 01:18:45.600 --> 01:18:48.520 So to me, those are the heroes in this field. People are 1044 01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:51.960 really decided to step out and work, and I applaud them for it. 1045 01:18:53.800 --> 01:18:56.520 The people that set back and say, well, I who the government's going 1046 01:18:56.560 --> 01:18:59.199 to get me? If I talk about this. You know, when I 1047 01:18:59.279 --> 01:19:03.039 first I mentioned earlier, when I first started. I was working on the 1048 01:19:03.079 --> 01:19:10.399 Gemini program at McDonald Douglas in the nineteen sixties and my wife called me one 1049 01:19:10.479 --> 01:19:14.840 day and she said I had been on one of the local radio stations and 1050 01:19:14.880 --> 01:19:16.760 my wife called me and she said, there's a woman that called here today. 1051 01:19:17.239 --> 01:19:21.439 It's absolutely scared to death. But she had an incident happened just west 1052 01:19:21.439 --> 01:19:25.359 of Saint Louis, out on a farm, and in a nutshell. What 1053 01:19:25.479 --> 01:19:28.760 happened. Her and her son were coming home down the road in the daylight, 1054 01:19:29.279 --> 01:19:31.640 and they saw this object that was hovering over a farm next to them. 1055 01:19:32.520 --> 01:19:36.000 Her husband was had cancer and was dying at home, so they'd been 1056 01:19:36.039 --> 01:19:40.279 off to get his medicine. They watched this thing and while they were watching 1057 01:19:40.319 --> 01:19:44.039 it over this barn, and the barn caught fire, and so they ran 1058 01:19:44.039 --> 01:19:45.520 into the house, and a guy out the car ran in the house, 1059 01:19:45.560 --> 01:19:49.279 closed the shades and peeked out and watched and they went away. But she 1060 01:19:49.439 --> 01:19:51.920 was scared to death. It was going to come back and set their house 1061 01:19:53.000 --> 01:19:56.399 on fire. And my wife said, well, did she report it to 1062 01:19:56.439 --> 01:19:59.239 the police or anybody? Said no, I don't want the government coming out 1063 01:19:59.239 --> 01:20:01.520 here and hauling me up off you know, putting me in an institution or 1064 01:20:01.520 --> 01:20:05.520 something. And that struck me so hard. You know that here was this 1065 01:20:05.560 --> 01:20:12.319 poor woman suffering anyhow from all these other things, and she had this this 1066 01:20:12.800 --> 01:20:15.239 non rational fear the government was going to get her. She talked about that 1067 01:20:15.279 --> 01:20:21.079 thing being over somebody's barn. And that's another thing that stimulated me to speak 1068 01:20:21.119 --> 01:20:28.000 out and to openly give the information out and try to quell those unnatural feel 1069 01:20:28.479 --> 01:20:31.720 fears. I think we only have a responsibility of doing that. Sure, 1070 01:20:32.039 --> 01:20:35.760 UFO reports are bizarre. In some cases people have been harmed, but that 1071 01:20:35.920 --> 01:20:40.479 is a very small number. And as far as the government coming and get 1072 01:20:40.520 --> 01:20:43.239 you in a whole new way, that doesn't happen either, and at least 1073 01:20:43.239 --> 01:20:46.159 not very often, and in these days probably not at all. I think 1074 01:20:46.239 --> 01:20:51.159 after the Boo Book closed in the sixties that the government had sufficient instrumentation in 1075 01:20:51.239 --> 01:20:57.039 themselves to collect information on UFO sightings. They didn't need public reports anymore. 1076 01:20:57.479 --> 01:20:59.560 And I think that's the way it is today. If you look at this 1077 01:20:59.640 --> 01:21:02.840 country today in the United States, you will find it is interlaced with radar 1078 01:21:02.920 --> 01:21:08.279 systems from ground to orbit that can track anything that goes over the country and 1079 01:21:08.319 --> 01:21:13.079 when we have a large triangle sighting at almost any altitude, I am sure 1080 01:21:13.119 --> 01:21:15.640 somebody is tracking it. We're not getting that data in the UFO brews and 1081 01:21:15.680 --> 01:21:17.880 they we don't deserve to. I don't know. It'd be nice if we 1082 01:21:17.920 --> 01:21:23.640 did, but it's there, somebody's doing it, so they don't need eyewitness 1083 01:21:23.680 --> 01:21:30.119 reports anymore. That reminds me of Scott Ramsey. He was one of the 1084 01:21:30.119 --> 01:21:35.920 speakers at the last Movefrond symposium and doing research in the Aztec suppose at UFO 1085 01:21:36.079 --> 01:21:42.920 crash, and in his investigation he had found a wide radar network throughout the 1086 01:21:42.960 --> 01:21:48.319 country in the late forties and even in the forties with these things got instituted 1087 01:21:48.800 --> 01:21:54.319 and they were technologies which I still don't know that if they've been disclosed, 1088 01:21:55.319 --> 01:22:00.279 he said. In one case they said VI radar were able to help UH 1089 01:22:00.119 --> 01:22:10.760 killed seventeen Japanese U boats and one day so but these still as technology he 1090 01:22:10.840 --> 01:22:15.439 was able to demonstrate and find through classified documents was throughout the country. He 1091 01:22:15.560 --> 01:22:23.159 also found that private organizations Texas Instruments and other companies had a large stake in 1092 01:22:23.199 --> 01:22:30.319 these Do you think that these private organizations are very involved and have a lot 1093 01:22:30.640 --> 01:22:38.319 I guess working in this fields largely as well. Well. Every organization of 1094 01:22:38.359 --> 01:22:44.199 the government has a limited staff. I mean, if you are NASA at 1095 01:22:44.239 --> 01:22:46.680 any given center, you have a limited staff, and the way you get 1096 01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:51.279 the work done is that you give contracts to private organizations to do the work. 1097 01:22:51.920 --> 01:22:55.960 That's how I worked at the Johnson Space Center. I was under contract 1098 01:22:56.640 --> 01:23:00.000 through McDonald douglas at the Johnson Space Center and we did all the control working, 1099 01:23:00.079 --> 01:23:05.279 that sort of thing that supplemented this small, massive workforce. And that's 1100 01:23:05.279 --> 01:23:12.520 the case with security organizations as well. I mean Lost Animals doesn't have their 1101 01:23:12.560 --> 01:23:15.439 own government police unit. They have a contractor that does it. They have 1102 01:23:15.479 --> 01:23:20.640 a contractor that runs Lost Animals, for instance, University of California. These 1103 01:23:20.680 --> 01:23:27.000 are private organizations that are not bound by a lot of the rules that government 1104 01:23:27.119 --> 01:23:30.439 organizations. A Freedom Information Act, for instance, doesn't apply to these private 1105 01:23:30.520 --> 01:23:33.079 organizations. Doesn't apply to anybody anymore hardly. I mean, it's been kind 1106 01:23:33.119 --> 01:23:39.199 of negated. But nevertheless, if you want something to be kept really really 1107 01:23:39.199 --> 01:23:43.119 secrets, you put it in a private organization. And these people are good 1108 01:23:43.119 --> 01:23:45.279 at that. I worked in some of those kind of programs and I can 1109 01:23:45.319 --> 01:23:49.079 tell you if it's a secret. You don't tell it, and most people 1110 01:23:49.079 --> 01:23:51.880 don't know. There are programs that have come and gone and nobody even knows 1111 01:23:51.920 --> 01:24:01.520 they existed, and mainly because they were done by private organizations. To move 1112 01:24:01.560 --> 01:24:06.279 on, you refer to the trends, how that the phenomena seems to be 1113 01:24:06.439 --> 01:24:13.960 changing over time. Do you recognize a current trend? Well, the current 1114 01:24:13.960 --> 01:24:18.199 trend I'm recognizing is that that is the lack of some of the mundane type 1115 01:24:18.239 --> 01:24:23.640 things that were taking place before. It's like it's not necessary anymore. But 1116 01:24:23.680 --> 01:24:28.760 the biggest trend is is to the addition of the big triangles to the mix 1117 01:24:28.840 --> 01:24:31.000 of types of UFO scene. It doesn't mean we don't have lots of disk 1118 01:24:31.039 --> 01:24:35.319 sightings and lots of their sphirical sightings, but we are seeing a real growth 1119 01:24:35.479 --> 01:24:40.760 in triangular sidings and I'm doing research on that. Intend to put a catalog 1120 01:24:40.800 --> 01:24:44.399 of that together one of these days. And I've got hundreds and hundreds and 1121 01:24:44.479 --> 01:24:50.239 hundreds of triangular sightings and they do not fit the characteristics of aircraft that we 1122 01:24:50.359 --> 01:24:57.199 have. Some people said, well, the government has locket or somebody building 1123 01:24:57.239 --> 01:25:00.560 these huge balloons, and that's what they are. A huge balloon. That's 1124 01:25:00.560 --> 01:25:04.840 why they can fly slowly and hover around in the sky. If that were 1125 01:25:04.880 --> 01:25:09.399 true, how do they take off at light speed? You won't ever see 1126 01:25:09.439 --> 01:25:15.600 a balloon take off like a rocket. It doesn't answer it. And besides, 1127 01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:18.600 we actually did the research and found that they didn't build these huge balloons 1128 01:25:18.600 --> 01:25:21.079 that some of the people that talk about, like the Areon for instance, 1129 01:25:23.039 --> 01:25:26.439 Locke is looking at a prototype right now when it can stay up for days 1130 01:25:26.479 --> 01:25:30.680 at high altitude. It's really big, but it's not proliferating the area, 1131 01:25:30.720 --> 01:25:32.960 and it's not flying at five hundred feet above the ground around the areas. 1132 01:25:33.439 --> 01:25:40.520 Means did one investigation. They took three databases, their own database, the 1133 01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:45.920 Lery hash database and the Moofon database and ask us for triangular reports feedback. 1134 01:25:45.399 --> 01:25:49.000 And when they did, they were able to plot them within like fifteen one 1135 01:25:49.039 --> 01:25:55.760 hundred miles of some major Air Force bass and that would leads you to believe 1136 01:25:55.800 --> 01:25:59.479 they were something flying from the major Air force baces. However, when you 1137 01:25:59.520 --> 01:26:02.199 look at the course, they weren't at the bases. They were at low 1138 01:26:02.279 --> 01:26:05.720 altitude miles out from the bases. And if you look at the way aircraft 1139 01:26:05.760 --> 01:26:11.439 take off, they have a rapid acceleration to get up to a certain altitude, 1140 01:26:11.439 --> 01:26:14.760 and then they fly higher and higher depending on what kind of aircraft they 1141 01:26:14.800 --> 01:26:18.000 are, to conserve fuel and to go long distances and to go fast and 1142 01:26:18.039 --> 01:26:23.319 all that sort of thing. They don't stay at five hundred feet below across 1143 01:26:23.359 --> 01:26:27.680 the country hour after hour, day after day. And so when NIS put 1144 01:26:27.720 --> 01:26:30.239 that report out with that hypothesis in it, everybody jump on said, there's 1145 01:26:30.279 --> 01:26:35.159 the answer. It's the air Force doing it. That wasn't NIDS what they 1146 01:26:35.159 --> 01:26:39.720 had in mind. They thought somebody would come back and say that doesn't fit 1147 01:26:39.760 --> 01:26:43.760 the data. Nobody has said that. They just accepted it. The media 1148 01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:48.000 accepted it, agencies accepted it, and it became kind of a law and 1149 01:26:48.079 --> 01:26:51.079 doctor Killer said, you know, that wasn't the intent at all. We 1150 01:26:51.319 --> 01:26:54.920 threw it out there because this is what the data showed, but it didn't 1151 01:26:54.960 --> 01:27:00.760 give the answer. And so nobody refuted the hypothesis. To this day is 1152 01:27:00.760 --> 01:27:06.159 Phil Stanles because nobody reputed it. All right. That was the interview with 1153 01:27:06.239 --> 01:27:10.560 John Schusher. There's a little bit more, but really we got into talking 1154 01:27:10.600 --> 01:27:15.079 about the symposium from a few years ago, so we left that part out. 1155 01:27:15.079 --> 01:27:17.000 But if for some reason you want to hear that, you can go 1156 01:27:17.079 --> 01:27:21.720 to ufothinktink dot com, but you can get an idea of what a wealth 1157 01:27:21.760 --> 01:27:28.359 of knowledge that John Chusler is. And what's funny is this was before I 1158 01:27:28.439 --> 01:27:31.119 started doing pr for mufon, and you know when I started, Oh, 1159 01:27:31.239 --> 01:27:34.720 moufonsinten nuts and bolts, they don't believe in abduction and blah blah blah, 1160 01:27:34.800 --> 01:27:40.119 this and that. But you can hear from this interview from a founding member, 1161 01:27:40.880 --> 01:27:45.000 from someone who was the director for a period of time where people were 1162 01:27:45.039 --> 01:27:49.359 saying this, he's obviously very very open minded, and the board is like 1163 01:27:49.479 --> 01:27:53.720 that. That's why I like to get on members of the board. I've 1164 01:27:53.720 --> 01:27:58.880 had several of the members of the move On board on so people could get 1165 01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:02.119 to know these guys and see what they're like, because otherwise it's very mysterious. 1166 01:28:02.199 --> 01:28:05.000 You know, who are these people? And hopefully one day I could 1167 01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:09.520 get Bob big Low on because that would be great so people can realize that 1168 01:28:09.560 --> 01:28:15.720 these are people who are genuinely interested in finding out information. Of course, 1169 01:28:15.119 --> 01:28:20.199 everyone has a different way of going about it, and everyone has different opinions 1170 01:28:20.239 --> 01:28:25.800 on the best way to do the investigation and how to get the information. 1171 01:28:26.439 --> 01:28:30.680 And sometimes people feel that, you know, people are hoarding information, or 1172 01:28:31.359 --> 01:28:38.079 they're they're not being as open as a sure or this or that. But 1173 01:28:38.159 --> 01:28:42.239 everybody, really their intent is to find the information, and especially with move 1174 01:28:42.279 --> 01:28:45.079 On, as you can hear with this, to share the information and with 1175 01:28:45.199 --> 01:28:50.000 move On their volunteer organization. So and what's wonderful is you know, you 1176 01:28:50.079 --> 01:28:55.760 don't have to agree with everybody to be a part of move On. And 1177 01:28:56.039 --> 01:29:00.279 most areas, you know, most states have local meetings, so it's a 1178 01:29:00.319 --> 01:29:03.760 place where you can go meet like minded people and get information and see some 1179 01:29:03.800 --> 01:29:06.439 of the great speakers or talk to some of the people who have done some 1180 01:29:06.479 --> 01:29:12.399 great research, and you'll be surprised on the varying opinions that people hold. 1181 01:29:12.840 --> 01:29:18.159 Speaking of someone who has varying opinions is doctor John Alexander. He was an 1182 01:29:18.319 --> 01:29:24.239 Army colonel and leading advocate for the development of non lethal weapons. He also 1183 01:29:24.279 --> 01:29:29.560 investigated UFOs and paranormal phenomena and he's going to be on the show next week 1184 01:29:29.640 --> 01:29:33.239 to talk about how disclosures happen. And the government doesn't know as much about 1185 01:29:33.319 --> 01:29:38.720 UFOs as we think. According to mister Alexander, let's hear what he has 1186 01:29:38.760 --> 01:29:42.079 to say. So thanks for listening to Open Minds Radio. Don't forget to 1187 01:29:42.159 --> 01:29:45.760 visit openminds dot tv for more UFO news. Talk to you next week, people,