What is up, fellow thermonuclear a evers. I am Dan fa Valley coming at you with my fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. We have a mail back to get to. But just as a reminder also, while we're waiting for people to straggle into this live AMA every Wednesday right now at two pm or two fifteen Eastern time about eleven fifteen Pacific time, we know that's when people are clearly not working and ready to just hop on YouTube or Twitter and listen to us talk. Remember to subscribe if you're around these parts. YouTube, Spotify, Apple, those are the best places to help us. Leave ratings and reviews. Those help us a ton on Apple, especially because we've been getting down voted a lot lately. I guess our takes or that that bad. I don't know if Grant knows, but he pissed someone off lately because they mentioned Grant he was specifically in their one star review. You're biased, you have an agenda. I don't know what it is. They didn't specify, but you're biased and have an agenda, don't y'all? Though? So, oh Brent is already here, but yeah, so follow us on Twitter the socials join our discord channel, the link to which is in the podcast description, and while we still wait to some more people to come in here, I have two questions. This is the most important one, Grant, how are you doing? And also what do you make of just the I already did a podcast on this, But what do you make like the Lebron James injury news and what this kind of means for the Lakers. I'm doing well. Thank you for asking how are you doing? Before I talk about the Lakers. My knee is still sore as we talked about last week, So I am cranky. I've not squatted in almost two weeks. And for anyone who has any inkling of who I am and what keeps me saying, I'm not happy, it's very squat centric. Your Your personal happiness revolves around the ability to squad, is how I would phrase it. It does. I don't like it. I can't believe you didn't inform me that turning thirty four was going to be like this. So I am heated. Yeah, yeah, at you, specifically your agenda and your bias. Yeah, now bleeding through to this podcast relationship. My agenda is to fail to prepare you for aging that's so super successful so far. I was gonna I wish I just get If I had like ten more seconds, I could have thought of a better segue about aging and injury to get to Lebron. But you guys, you guys will work it out. Yeah, Like, what's there to talk about other than he's gonna miss two weeks minimum, right, So, and this is like obviously the wrong two weeks to miss because of the juncture of the season that we're at. But it's also I think they have twenty one The Lakers have twenty one games left, and a dozen of them or against teams in the West that are ahead of them in the standing. So it's like, if you're gonna make a run, if you're going to with this new you know, player grouping post trade deadline, do something, this was gonna be the time. And now it's just I don't know what else there is to say other than like, just I'm not even considering them as a play in team, right are you? Do you like, is there something more complicated to say than that? As at least for this big picture, it's different. But yeah, just because when is Delo coming back? He's been out Andy Davis is now out versus the Thunder as well. I think what helps them is the Blazers suck. They just suck. They have Damian Lillard and Simon's is interesting, and I like Shade and Sharp long term, and I think this year a little proably needs to play more like they suck. The Blazers suck the Jazz. I have been informed multiple sources tell me that the Jazz are gonna be I rate if they make the play in, so I guess. And then plus the Shay injury in Okay, see does that help them? But like, and then whatever the fuck the Pelicans are doing, they're just taking ships on the court nightly at this point, so I won't rule it out. I might still put them in the play in, but like if Andy Davis isn't gonna be healthy. And also the thing is, and you mentioned this, Lebron is in a one. He's in a boot, which is just like there was a doctor on Twitter. I always forget his name. I apologize, went through it and said that this is just to preserve it, make sure that you can heal as quickly as possible and maybe come back. I just the way it was framed with the Woe reporting and the Chris Hayes reporting he might be done for the year, whether they're in the plan or not. That's my impression right now. No, that's mine too, because it's one of those where the wording was such that it wasn't like he'll be back in a couple of weeks or two weeks or anything like that. And also the word the wording included like the Lakers fear that he might be blah blah blah. It's it's a reevaluation definite amount too. It's just like I just yeah, it's like, and how often does at the reevaluation point a team say yeah, tomorrow you're good get in. It's always it's always more so like minimum two and then I mean probably at least but another week or two. But then it's just like, yeah, at that point they might be they might have lost five games in a row or six games in a row, and it's just there's no reason to bring him back. I mean, and that's even like, yeah, I don't know, it's just I want to I want to like have a more nuanced to take on this, but it's just the Lakers lost the guy that gave them a chance to make the plan. And so there's not a lot else to say. If you tell me starting Wednesday, which is or no Thursday, which is when this podcast will go live. It's on YouTube now on Wednesday, but when it goes to our if if any game, it's Nangel Russell combine to miss fewer than three games. The rest of the way, I'm going to predict the Lakers make the play in Do you know why I'm not high on Jared Vanderbilt? Everything everywhere, all at once, Jared Vanderbilt. Brent Burnett did say in the chat, did you notice that Lebron will be okay at least two weeks and then return tipped off the Jazz to do what. I don't think Lebron's gonna be okay, but it does seem that the Jazz we're just like, oh, we're gonna pull Jordan Clarkson from the line up now and they're in. And I didn't mean to turn this into a conversation about the Jazz, but if they want to tank, like, is there a they could if they want? Like we saw it, they closed with THHT again they first only lost the Spurs and then you close with THHT and All Star Chris Dunne, But like, is there a chance they're just too good still? Because you can't theoretically bench Lowry marketing just because I haven't gone through my All NBA teams, but I have to imagine that he's technically in the running for a third team All NBA this season, and it would be akin to This is why anyone who thinks that the Thunder are faking the Shake Gildest Alexandre injury, slash entry and the health and safety protocols, you're fucking morons because you want you want Shade to become disenchanted. He's on track for like second team All NBA and you're gonna shut him down on perpon. No, it doesn't. That's not how that's gonna work. And so I'm just curious whether the Jazz could they still be too good to tank or to just like what they did at to trade deadline. Yeah, we could play Walker, Castler and Lowry market as much as we want and we're still going to be able to play our way out of the plan. I think it's well, this was kind of the discussion point for the Jazz basically all year, Right, are they a little too good to do what we thought they would do and what sort of made the most sense logically in terms of trying to win the race to the bottom. And the answer to that was pretty much always, yeah, like they are, they're a little too good to bottom out. And I think that's certainly less true now because I'm with you in the Vanderbilt camp, Like, I just think he's a winning player and he's not there. Conley's gone. You know, they've they've They've jettison three guys that would have helped them win games. And the problem for me though, is like, Okay, so if they they're not going to shut it down per se, but if they level off or if they, you know, start to play more to the level of the talent on the roster right now, well, what about New Orleans? Like New Orleans is a half game as we're recording this behind him, and New Orleans is kind of coming undone and has been for a long time. The Blazers. You've laid out your opinion on the Blazers. I watched them play the Warriors last night and we're up twenty three on Golden's Day and then the Warriors boxing one Damian Lillard and flipped it in won easily, So like, I'm not concerned about the Blazers. The Lakers are kind of way down there. The Thunder I still like a lot, but if SGA is not going to play some amount, then I don't know. So it's like, yeah, they might be worse, but so it is pretty much everybody else beneath them that you would need to jump over them. So maybe I guess the roundabout answer question is like they probably should be able to, you know, get down to where they want to be, except that all these other teams that are in the running for you know, those outside of the playing spots are also going the wrong way. So I don't know, it's gonna it's gonna be a weird race for that, like how much do you want nine versus twelve? And like it's a backwards race almost now. Yeah, I think they're gonna get to a point where, like Collin Sexton just as him playing and we're gonna see a lot of like more of some moan Pontacio has been playing since the trade deadline, basically like a lot more minutes. We've already see more about Baji for a while, but he's actually not been bad so that'll be my sort of I guess maybe we should. We should in theory, because it seems like the Blazers are going for it despite what they did against the Warriors. We probably should just assume that they're the team that gets up, because I think the Pelicans get in just because they're too talented, not too even without Zion, Minnesota, Dallas, the Clipper, like those teams should get in Golden State two fifth in the West right now. So it just seems like between the Jazz, Pelicans, Blazers, Lakers, and Thunder to pick two of those teams, and with the Shay injury, I'm not prepared to pick the Thunder. I think it's probably the Pelicans and the Blazers. If the Jazz are actively tanking, and it does seem like they are. Yeah, yeah, I know that, I guess. I mean Portland. Portland certainly wants it the most just because of all the we're built trade deadline activity implies otherwise. But we ask them with you Yeah, but so, but I don't know how much want to matters. It's just it's a it's a personnel question, like they just their defense still sucks. It's terrible. And now the blue, not that it should have been a surprise, Like Simons didn't play against Golden State, so that was a big deal because you probably can't box in one Lillard and get away with it with another, you know, higher and shot creator in the backcourt. But anytime it's just Dame and the and the rest of that team. If you don't box and won them, I just don't know what you're doing as a defense because nobody, I mean nobody proved they could do anything with the ball. And it's not like the Warriors. You're like twentieth on defense. It's not like you know, it's not like they have Wiggins didn't play, Gary Payton wasn't out there, Draymond didn't have a great game, and they still just the fawcet was shut off. So I don't know, man, it's the bottom of the West is like weirdly sad right now. I'm not enjoying it. Did you want to dive into this mail bag? Now? Yeah? Sure, I'll start off here with I have to ask this one because it would be weird if you did. So. This is from definitely not damn for Valley sixty nine. The players deserve to be criticized for load management. Everyone seems to direct their ire at player salaries, when to me, it's clear they're not the one making the rest night decisions. Who's to blame for this load management bullshit teams? Right? Is it is this very astute observation by our listener. Wrong? I mean I saw and what prompted this is I think it was Charles Barkley. Barkley said like, oh, you're making forty thirty forty fifty million dollars a year, you should be able to play in every game. In theory, okay, sure if we had players going to their teams and thank yeah, I'm only going to play in sixty games this year. But I don't get the impression that players are like what's use Kauai as an example of the earlier. He's the one whose history suggests like, maybe there is some self serving element, but that I'll talk about the Spurs thing in a minute, but go ahead. No, that's just I don't think that players have like this in eight desire to not play. I think a lot most of them, I would ninety nine percent of the players in the NBA just love basketball and so they want to play. And that it's teams that have decided. I'm sure because they have studies or just with all the personnel that they have that are in charge of you know, the player vitals and medicals, that they have these experts making those decisions, and that there are also teams where maybe it's also just front offices, like the end game is not the regular season. It's we're trying to stay fresh for the playoffs. And maybe there's not enough evidence to say like, oh, if player X appears in sixty two games instead of eighty two, they'll be fresher. But you might just inherently we're afraid they're gonna get injured. It's like we're going to rest them during the regular season to try and make sure that they're fresher, can't hurt, right. And there's a conversation we had about low management, especially when now like betting is legal and you have some of these last minute scratches. It's a whole thing. And also how can fans confidently buy tickets in advance? I just I don't believe that the players are even I would argue teams have to be like ninety five percent at minimum responsible for load management issues. Yeah, I think coming at it from a different angle, I think it has to be just there has to be a very minimal amount of blame on the players, just because it's so much easier for me to imagine a guy really wanting to play when he shouldn't and the team telling him no than the opposite, which is the team saying you're good and him saying I'm not going to play because of how that makes him look, how with his teammates, how that affects the chemistry, like all that type of stuff, you know. And I don't know if I could, if I could co sign the level of the percentage of players that love basketball in the NBA. You do hear sometimes like there's a decent number of guys that are just like tall and good athletes that just aren't into it, and but but it's still it's a vanishingly small number. I just think those guys exist. But we're not really talking about those guys. We're talking about the stars that you know, are missing however many games. But it's a really thorny issue just because like I don't think we have a handle on or I don't think there's a consensus on how much more strenuous modern NBA basketball is on the body than it used to be, and so it's kind of like when guys that played thirty years ago say, you got to just lace them up and go to even get to even turn that into a conversation that's not just about are we were tougher than you are? You need to get over the hurdle of getting old heads and people that are, you know, of the mind that players are soft. You have to get them to understand that, like, yeah, it's just different now. It's harder, guys. The athletes are better, The game is faster, there's more there's way more ground to cover, Like, it's just way more taxing and strenuous. And the data seemingly bears that out that all these teams have proprietary you know, this guy's at the x percent increased risk of injury based on the load he's handled in practice and games like that's such a hard sell for a lot of you know, fans, critics, whatever that just want to say, well, this guy's not hurt, he should play like full stop, which, like I guess as a fan and a ticket buyer, that's not an unreasonable position to have, But it just sort of ignores all the information that we have, and ultimately the problem is we're not sure yet like what to do with all that information. I think pretty clearly because injuries are up. You know, you see that all the time. So it doesn't necessarily follow that this load management stuff is all bullshit. I think it just means that maybe the game is even is more strenuous to a greater degree than even we could acknowledge. I don't know, so circling all the way back, it's just teams protecting investments. It's not just we care about the playoffs. It's also we signed a guy for hundreds of millions of dollars for like four or five years, so we're not going to rush him out there on a Tuesday night when we have two, you know, twenty twenty seven to think about like that. I think that's a big factor too. Brent is still going off in the chat about the Jazz. I'm just, I'm just I'm dying at this. Jazz players want contracts, they're going from wins. But why pull your key players that are scoring to put in non scores? Where is silver time? Pfines? Right? Congress over this? BS, I'm biased, bustiness fan, the Spurs want a basketball game that they did the Jazz are taking. I think that's clear proof what's pop in Maine. How about them Kings? Do you have any strong thoughts on are the Kings being sort of just overlooked in the like Pla. We've already asked this question and we both said no. Is it time to rethinking can the Kings win a playoff series? I so, I did a little bit of research Theailor day, and this has been a stat that's been out there. I kind of circle back to it every so off. And so their offense is awesome number one in efficiency, at least through last night when I was looking. Their defense is still bad. But if you look at like the types of shots they allow, I think they're location based, opponent effective field wal percentage, which is a lot of words to just say, like other teams should shoot this well against them is top ten. So they're permitting shots that if the opponent would just make them at rates you would expect they'd be a top ten ish defense or at least, you know, average, So that gives me a little bit of pause and just writing them off as well in the playoffs. You know that they're not going to score as easily and they definitely can't stop anybody. All that said, like who are you picking them to beat in a seven game series that they might realistically face, Like, I mean, I guess the Clippers because they have beaten them. I just I don't know Dallas. Maybe I could. I could see them beating Dallas if they shook out that way. Just I don't know. I don't think they can win a playoff series. I also don't think that makes this season of failure. I think this is like the most wildly successful King season in twenty years or whatever. Go back to the Vlody Devots Chris Webber teams. That's this is about as good as it's been since then. Also, the Kings are the best in the league at keeping opponents out of transition, So I feel like they're better than a bottom seven or bottom five defense. And if you look at just like you know, there's definitely when you look at they're allowing almost seventy percent shooting at the rim, and like that's a real thing. I think the Bonus has probably been better during certain like stretches as a rim protector than people might credit. But that's a big thing for them. Opponents are hitting thirty eight percent of their above the break threes. There has to be some level of luck caked into there. I think what it comes down to for me is just like and you look at some of their top end units and like they're about league average defensively, and their bench is just so turbulent for me. There's also the darn Fox Brisk injury right now, which we have to keep an eye on, but his progression is just like a mid range score. They've just been a joy to watch this year. So I don't think they can win a plyoff series now, and I do think the path forward is still a little murky, where it's like, well, how do we improve? I think they need to make a trade to sort of level up their ball containment or just their overall defense on the perimeter specifically, maybe even want to back up rim protector at this point. But like, there's a real base here, yep for them. Let's get to this question from Real Serrup twenty two nineteen Grant, what are your thoughts on the report that the NBA may look at implementing a target score for overtime instead of a traditional five minute period. Yeah, I think I don't know how much of a problem the five minute overtime period really is such that you need to sort of change it. Obviously, if you do the target score, you're getting a game winner no matter what. So that's fun, Like, that's a real positive, and it would prevent you from having multiple overtimes, I guess, so, I guess that's also cool, although, like multiple overtime games get kind of fun because they get so ragged and scattered and you get like, what two or three crunch times instead of just one in a regular forty a minute game. I'd be okay with that. I also think if you just cut overtime down to like three minutes, I've seen this suggested that's I would like that too, only because five minutes is a long time. You're like, you're basically playing crunch time all over again, and theoretically both teams are just gassed after the end of the fourth quarter, So I think the quality of play might be better if there was just a three minute sprint, or like a two minute sprint instead of a full five more minutes. But I'd be okay with the target score that. I don't have a strong feeling about it because sort of My view is that if the game goes to overtime, there's not like a lot of predictive value for either team anyway, because it was just super close, and you know, it doesn't it matters who wins for the standings, But in terms of like looking at the full season and how good Team X is versus Team why, it might as well just be a tie. As far as like how I would normally evaluate it, I'd probably be against it. Just if you want to shorten the overtime period, that's fine. I just the target score, like doc could end up being slog two if teams aren't really like what if teams were just shooting really poorly in their gas then as well. So I'm not a big fan of like the All Star Game, like having the elam ending it's fine with me, But to create a target score, uh, like you know, I just I don't know. There's just like I'd rather see, like what is it better to just go like possession by possession at that point where like the NFL, like you get one possession and the other teams compassion like let's let's just make it sudden death. Yeah, that basically the jump ball really matters all of a sudden, if we go one possession, first team to score. Yeah like that? Uh, it's kind of a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist in my opinion. Let's get to this next one here. This is from unbiased Pistons fan. Uh, which Finals contender would be most improved if they were given when Binyama for next season and then uh the season after? I guess if if the answer is different, I'm not sure I get it, but like, who needs when Binyama? The most I guess would be would be the among title contenders? Yeah, among title contenders or now that that's that different? Or who would he? I guess which title contender would he instantly improve them out? So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna say the Nuggets. Just could you imagine him his development toward a being stream laying around Nakole Yoki's vision that was just one more life easy on him. That's the way to do it, right. Uh. This next one is when we related as well. Do you have an opinion on which contender eat improved Memphis just because of the half court scoring stuff? Like, how would imply Memphis as a contender, which that you know what You're right, they're not when neither of us I don't think view them as as finals contenders, so invalid answer by me. The correct answer is Denver by you. Okay, let's hit the next one. This one comes from Mike Spencer had this pop in my head and blah blah blah. Maybe it's a quote, not blah blah blah. Right, maybe's the question for future prop But is there a team you don't want to see Land, Wemby or Scoot Personally, I don't want to see the Hornets of Rockets. Land and the horse would basically a fall and ask backwards into one of them. But the Rockets simply suck and neither kid deserves that. Uh, those are the teams to me, right like I because the alternatives are san Antonio. I think it's the Spurs are not. I think we've gone long enough giving the Spurs credit for the dynastic run that they had over the better part of twenty years, and it's just like they're not They're not that anymore. But they're also not the Rockets or Hornets and the Pistons. I guess you know that. I'm fine with that. I don't think the Pistons of like, kind of deserve feels like a weird word to use because you're talking about teams that are just all really bad, and so I guess they all sort of equally deserve a chance to get this guy. But like Houston's just the you know, the words mess and circus get thrown out a lot. I think Zach Low and Jonathan Gavoni both we're talking about how everyone associated with that team just it's like it's just chaos and there's no adults in the room and it's it's a real mess. So like I don't want when Yama developing there and then Charlotte, Yeah, they they just it's a team that doesn't spend. It's a team that seems to care really strongly about being seventh or eighth in a conference. And like, I just I don't feel like those types of teams should be rewarded for being bad. I don't know the who Brent saying forget Victor Scoot the better choice. I just I disagree. Yeah, I'll say, yeah, that's a lot. Uh So I'm I'm with you. I think I don't mind seeing either of them on the Hornets, just because like the Hornets aren't going to do that that ship where they bring them along too slowly like they have with some of their younger bigs. And Mark Williams is playing now anyway, like since Christmas, he's just been in the line of Now he's starting without Mason Plumley. WHOA, that might be a good segway, But like I like the idea of Scoot playing next to Little Melo and then just like Victor's gonna fit anywhere and play anywhere. I want to see them nowhere near the Rockets just because, like you have, do we trust them if they get scooped? Do we trust them? They get rid of KPJ. And if you have Victor Wemban Yama, this is a team that's underutilized Albert and changon also Jabari Smith Jr. How do you sort of deal with that gluck where you have Victor can probably play the three. But like Jabari Smith, Victor and alprin Sha like it's just weird and I don't trust the Rockets like you said the Jonathan Cavoni and Zach Low talking about how it's just this circus. We have John Wall absolutely ether them on that podcast and some of it he rewrote a lot of history for himself. Some of it had to be have like there had to be an iota or truth there. So what's the rockets for me? I just I don't trust them at this point. They seem incoherent with what they're doing, and I think everyone's responsible, from the players at the front office to Stephen Silas too, just not maybe implementing the right principles. So I would love this. Is there a team you want to see like them on? If it's different, I'll go first here since I threw it to you. I really want to see Victor wemban Yama on the Spurs. I just feel like, not that there's a blank canvas there, but they need that, Like they have Devin Vassell injured right now, they have Kelton Johnson I'm really high, and Jeremy Sowen, but like they need that sort of poll star And I almost like, is this too, Like I almost kind of want to see Scoot in Charlotte because I feel like he just works really well in Charlotte. I don't want to see him in Detroit. Orlando would make a ton of sense if they can fall far enough, So I wouldn't mind seeing him in Orlando there, Like I said, have him stay the hell away from Houston, but like you don't would be the there's my real spicy pick. If there's like not a bottom four, bottom five team that's gonna win the lottery, the Pacers with either one of these guys. Sure incredible. Yeah, my team all along, and it made it a lot more sense back when there was less distance between them and the bottom four was Orlando, just because I know they would never do it, but we talk all the time and I'm lower on it than you are. But the Orlando backcourt, I just think is just not up up to the standard it needs to be to make good on the three, four five on that team being so awesome. So like theoretically this was back when Bull Bull was more of a thing too. I just love the idea of Yeah, Bank, Caro and Franz Wagner are your playmakers. You have Wendell Carter Junior in the middle, and then Bull Bowl and when Binyama just make it so you have everybody on the floor is six ten or whatever whatever Wagner is, and you just I don't know how you stop anybody, but no one scores with the room and it's just super fun. And this is this is like if you if you took the Raptor's plan of the last couple of years and just added like three inches in height to it at every position, That's what it would look like. That would be fun. But Orlando's too good. They're not. It's it's out of the question. So yeah, I don't know. I guess Detroit's got a million centers. Oh, this is another before we get to Mark Williams, because we just watched the total obvious segue to get there. Do you think when Binyama is going to play center, like ultimately now, I mean maybe cutting on the team at some point, but I do think it might depend on like him filling out his frame or at least proving that he's like a Kevin Durant level of durability. And I don't think he needs to put on a ton of weight. There's at espmps. I think that they've gone about it really wisely, where it's like you can't just all of a sudden change the body archetype of these guys like because it changes their whole like aerodynamic structure and what makes them so good. So he's already said he hates playing center. I think that's just Look, he's like a teenager and positions are so fluid now, But I don't think I view more as like a four or three. But like, yeah, could I see down the line certain teams like the with the the usage that Kevin Durant might see as a small ball center or has seen with a smaller Yeah, I could see something like that. Yeah, I mean I guess. If I guess, if the position you play is defined by the position you guard, then he's a center because you have to have him around the rim too, because he's gonna be so great at it, but offensively, Like, I don't even know. You could tell me he's a shooting guard at some point, you know, five years from now. That's all on the table. I was gonna say this question from James before we get to Mark Williams. What do you think about the Jazz trading lowry marketing? Where would be a good landing spot? So this offseason if you were the Jazz and you're really interested. Look, I know he's like semi young, but he's gonna have a new contract coming up soon, Like, do you think about trading lowry market I already have my favorite destination for him if they did trade him. But I sure as hell don't trade him. I mean, I probably with you, I guess, I don't know how you would do this. But if he occupied the suddenly Kevin Love as a starter at Power Forward in Miami Spot, I think that would make a lot of sense to give that team some three point shooting and some shock creation and en, I mean some youth too, So I could. I would like him there, but I just like can't fathom of the Jazz trading him, not after this year. Jimmy took my answer. It's I want to see him on the pacers. Imagine the Miles want to see everybody on the pacers. Okay, because that's how good the pacers are. Terry's Halbert is, do you want to take us to the Mark Williams question? This is because you know what you know, what people really want to get to is the Mark Williams question. And it's a good question. It's from Rome eighty one eighty and the question is talk about Mark Williams. That is my question, So Dan, talk to us about Mark Williams. I think he's gonna be pretty good. Where there was this a sentiment that, oh, the hornet's fucked up because they didn't shake Jaalen Durhan, and I don't think that's I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think he's played well enough to show that he's played basically since Christmas, played a lot more starting now without Plumbly. I've been very impressed. When you look at defense, he just looks like a rookie. On defense. His rim protection numbers were okay once he had to play against more starters, though, like we saw those come down. He can really get attacked and targeted in the pick and roll. He's a rookie like big man, Like there's a learning curve there. Defensively, I've been really impressed with his offense. He's scoring at above average clip out of the pick and roll now, shooting above seventy one percent inside five feet, and I think there's there was this I didn't necessarily believe it, but there was this talk, and there kind of has still been some this song like, oh, he could kind of branch out his offensive game and they're not implementing it necessarily in games, but like you can kind of see it. He's shot like nine of sixteen or whatever it is on hook shots this year, he's hit like some floaters, he's hit some like little turnarounds. He's taken some shots that are in the pain outside the restricted area, and I think he's had like forty seven percent on in the paint restricted areas area twos and that's not a super great number, but it's just like, oh, there might be and you kind of look at the free throw shooting, there might actually be just more range to what this guy could do. I'm in sure to see like what his decision making would look like if you put him on the ball more. He's actually he's fair better on the sparing number of post ups that I went back and watched from him as well. And so there's just like, no, I don't think we're talking about an offensive hub here, but when you're looking at when we talk about bigs, and I think a Rudy Gobert and a Clint Capela fall into this, you want someone who's more Jared Allen and can have lighters to his decision making. And I could see I don't really think they're comparable as players, but like Mark Williams might have those dimensions to his offensive game, which I think is super intriguing. So I'm gonna make a clumsy like analogy from real life experience that so I am helping coach both of my kids basketball teams right now. And so this is kindergarten and this is third grade. And what I've learned so far is it's way better to have a kid that is for aggressive and is trying to make something happen all the time and then try to rain that in. It's way better to have that than the kid who's actually talented but is just like timid and not competitive and doesn't want to mix it up. Like and I don't want to make the comparison of Mark Williams as a child, but he is much closer to my kid's age than he is to mind. But his profile, he's enormous one he like on an NBA court, he stands out as that guy's big, which is like a rare thing. And he's super active like and my criticism of him at this point in his career and he's a rookie, so this is normal is he's too active, Like he goes for blocks a little too much. Get he just wants to make the highlight play. He wants to show that he's giving Max's effort like, so that actually kind of maybe hurts his team on balance, but I would way rather have that because this is guy. He's top ten percent among bigs in steel and block grades, so he's just like doing shit. He's making things happen. I think that's related to opponents are shooting their effective field goal percentage and like his on off splits for defensive rating are ridiculous, like they're hugely positive. The problem is that's almost all based on opponents just missing a bunch of threes and jump shots when he's in the game. So it's like that data doesn't tell me much. And in fact, because he goes for blocks a lot, opponents get a bunch of offensive rebounds when he's in the game, which is pretty class. It's a pretty classic like Hassan Whiteside, you know, hunting blocks like big man thing. But all that said, like just the physical tools and the energy level for me are he's going to be in the league for a long time, and I don't know what the offense looks like down the road. I mean what you said, you know, Augurs, Well, like it suggests there's something there, but just from size, intensity, athleticism, you know, energy, all that stuff. I think that's already at like a ten. It's just a question of how can you reel some of that in and how can you like smooth the edge is a little bit. So I guess i'd agree that it got panned, you know, because all it could have had Duran could have had during Like I don't know, it's so early the draft night mode of operations was still pretty like fucking stupid. But I don't think Mark Williams is gonna be I think Mark william is gonna be a good center for like as good as his type of center can be, because he's not gonna be shooting threes and he's not gonna switch a lot, I don't think. But I think he's gonna be a good center for a while. Lan During or Mark Williams, I'd probably still take During take Duran, would I I think I'm with you there. But the fact that it's kind of like a question now, I think it's like you said, Augur's well for Charlotte, I like to say augur, that's a good word. Let's so this is the headlining question. So thank you Karagan for it. And we didn't tease it at all except in the title, which if any team that's currently out of the playoffs has the best odds to be a Cinderella story and win the title out of the playoffs. Are we're talking not even in the play in mix like eleven, the top six, or I would even say, like I'll reframe it. Let's say outside the top we could use John Hollanders definition to say outside the top three, outside the top five, I'll even give you because the West is so fucked up. It's just like, yeah, you're either you're either fourth like you could be fourth, or in the play and it's the same fucking difference. Right, Well, okay, so if it's outside the top six, so seven, seven or lower, it's an easy one for me because the Heat right now or seventh in the East, and I think they're right. I think I've yeah, I got these updated through Tuesday nights games, and like, I don't think the Heat can win the championship. But if you're saying, well it's them or Atlanta or like Dallas or Minnesota, the Heat just have all the you know, party line, the party lines that we give the Heat culture. They play hard, they're well coached, they have Jimmy Butler, which in the playoff series just always fucking matters. He's just He's Jimmy Butler is liable to be the best player on the floor and literally any series he plays, it doesn't matter who is on the other team. He's proved that, whether it's in the Fie finals or in the conference finals. If you have Jimmy Butler, like you're gonna get at least a couple of games where he just you win because you have him. And so that kind of lowers the degree of difficulty of a cinderell a runt. If you make it, you know, outside the top three, then there's I don't know a handful of teams. I throw it to you on that one. But the Heat would be my pick if it's outside of the top six. Yeah, if I went outside the top six, spoiler alert, it is no longer the Pelicans through me. I just don't think so. I've kind if you had to pick right now. Is Zion Williamson playing again this season? No, I don't think so. And that's just like so no and void. And by the time he gets back, it's well, what type of ramp up does he need him? What do they look like at that point? Their offense has been wildly unspiring without him, I think some people and Brent kind of mentioned it well. I think he's talking about getting cars and freeinge. But like the Lakers, if they were healthy, maybe I think it's the Raptors. Is that stupid. I know the efficiency still hasn't been like great for Van Fleet, and he's been, i think, relative to standards, disappointing this season. But he just looks when you watch the makeup of their offense, the way he's acting on the ball now that he has an actual like screening and rolling big, they really just I think changes the complexion of their team in a way that what I have given up what I did for him. What was interesting is I didn't know this because I'm just not a draft guy, but Gavoni saying that he would trade his twenty twenty four first round pick because the draft class is so bad, that's what the Raptors did. It's like, if you can look at it that way, to get Yaka Purdle that you have to pay this summer. I think it really could be the Raptors, and I don't think that they've been necessarily some sort of sleeping giant. Since the trade deadline, there's just all sorts of things that are still wrong with their team. And just like they kind of flirted with letting the Bulls hang around on Tuesday night and it looked like maybe they would lose at some point. But look, since the trade deadline, this team is almost tenth in defense and the offense is twentieth, and that's they're just there's there's room for improvement there when you look at the level of talent they have, like maybe o Gianna Nobi not turning the ball over looking like a deer on ice when he's you know, having to use his handles. Maybe don't have o Ganna no We handled the ball at all. So there's still some death questions there. But if they're healthy the top end of their rotation, just like in the playoffs, I wouldn't want to face them. And this is me specifically saying outside the top six. If we were to go outside the top like can we go outside the top four? I'm gonna lob I think the easy ones. Is it like I guess it's Golden State in the West. Is it a chance that it's the Knicks over the heat in the East. If we're going outside the top four, maybe, I mean, then you got to talk about do we need to talk about the Clippers too? I just I still haven't seen it, you know, from them, but they're in the mix as well, I think, if because they're six right now. Although like I love how we're talking about these standings, like they won't be completely upside down in like three days be just because everything's so bunched in both especially in the West. But yeah, I think the Knicks, I mean nine and two in February, like with some good wins for the Knicks, so I mean they don't have like a it's gonna be really hard for them to have the best player in a series generally speaking, and like as reductive as I get about playoff basketball, sometimes that actually matters to me. But yeah, like that offense is really good. I think it's gonna play in the postseason. Yeah. I think it's funny that these are all really mostly East teams. And it's also interesting that we did not even I didn't think about Dallas at seven or anybody. It's not them. I mean their defense is just like it's a turnstyle. Yeah, right, it's pretty bad. We have this question from Ian which is very interesting and side side of things from Portland, which team in the league would pay Jeremy Grant thirty million bucks beside the Blazers. I'm genuinely curious what you and Grant think of what other teams might think of him. I will say I don't. I don't know if he gets even thirty million from them. Maybe he does get thirty million from the Blazers, but could you see a team coming over the top and outbidding them for Jeremy Grant? And if so, who I don't. I think this has kind of been a bad year for him, even though statistically he's been really good and certainly was just phenomenal to start the year. I think like maybe this is revealing that like the best version of Jeremy Grant was actually like the Denver one or the Oklahoma City one versus the versus the later stages as he's developed into more of a scoring player. Thirty is a lot for someone that like he's so I would you agree that he's this? I don't know how you feel about Simon's Is he the set? He's the second best player on the Blazers, right, Like, Yeah, I mean, Simon's is just so limited defensively. I mean, it'd be nice if Jeremy Grant carew have a fucking rebound. But and so he's even Jeremy Grant's like getting a since the trade, and I've be getting the foul line. So just I think he's their second best player. Yeah, I think so too. And so he's the second best player on a team that is three games under five right now, say I would love to give a guy thirty million dollars a year. I mean, the money is weird because the CAP's gonna go up and thirty's gonna seem like twenty, you know, fairly soon. But I just don't know that i'd be confident. I don't feel like he's he can't be your second best guy. And I think if you're making thirty that you're you're in that conversation. Uh maybe if he's your third or fourth guy, you're you got something, But third or fourth guy should not be making thirty. So I don't know. Uh, let's leave that out. And so I think your team, I think could justify paying him as much as the Blazers, or would be interesting to pay him as much as the Blazers. No, I don't the thunder. Okay, can you imagine him and Chet as you're front court? I know, like I think Grant Williams or PJ. Washington will probably be cheaper and might in some ways be a better fit. But defensively, Jeremy Grant's like I think, probably better, but he's been he's not shooting the three ball well at the moment as we record this, but like he's probably the more not Grant Williams. He's more He's a more accomplished three point shooter than PJ. Washington. I would say that would be an interest, not one that I've necessarily thought about. Yeah, no, that I mean going to think where else he would make sense? Like what about I was gonna say Sacramento, But he I don't know how because just because theoretically you get the defense that you're not really getting from Barnes and Murray at the forward spots. But and like if you just swapped him in for Barnes, who's a free agent, then maybe that's an upgrade, But I don't know if it's enough of an upgrade to justify having to beat the Blazers, who are pretty pot committed on Grant I think too to get him, So yeah, I don't know. I like the teams with the cap space who just get Grant outright would be Utah, which I don't think that they're gonna be. Let's go spend on someone who's older. The Spurs the same for them, the Magic and the Thunder, and then the Clippers aren't gonna have cap space. They could the pay I guess the Pacers would be interesting. Would that be a team that you would like him on? That's like, that's really the only win now team that is slated to have cap space will actually I think, act like they're having cap space. You can get into some sign and trade scenarios where if teams were like far enough under the hardcap that they could try and make a play for him. I mean, he would make a lot of sense on the Clippers, but they can never get on the hardcap Memphis. He would make a lot of sense in Memphis, more than ogn and Obie, but not as much as Michael Bridges. Yeah, if you just put him in the Dylan Brooks role, he's a different position a little bit. But I don't mean that. I don't hate that. But although if you're Memphis and maybe this is a This is one to segue into I think you probably want to be dreaming a little bigger for your next upgrade than Grant if you can. But so this is from from burner account who is a grizz fan. What do you think it will take for zak Kleiman to flip some assets for a bigger star. It seems like the grow your own model can only take us so far. I mean, you should have done it already and that I think that this playoffs is going I've been Grizzlies fans might get mad at me for this, but you should really appreciate me saying this because every time I'm down on the Grizzlies, they prove me wrong for the past three years. But I think this is gonna be the postseason that's a wake up called there is I'm trying to think, what is the first round matchup? What is the team that you would just expect them to steam roll in the first round of the playoffs that they could like? Is it Dallas, the Clippers, the Timberwolves? But is it I guess maybe the Timberwolves, just because I wouldn't trust the Timerwolves. Is their offense is dogshit. Like I think this postseason is gonna be the wake up called where maybe they escape in the first round, but they're just gonna get lampooned in the second round and you're gonna look at okay, be like it's really cool that we think that Santi Aldamo can become something. And Zaire Williams the injury to start the season really fucked him because I was high on him. But just like now, you don't have the runway to develop him. You have these picks. I get maybe not wanting to make a huge move mid season, but like it's time. Like you paid John Morant, you paid Jena Jackson junior. That contract is going to be a steal, Like you're gonna have to pay Desmond Bayane soon. You're running out of time to have the flexibility that you do. And you have these three players who are all all I would argue Desmond Baine is absolutely all star caliber, and so you have these three players who are all star caliber. Make the move now. And so I think this is the summer that nudges the Grizzlies to do it. And I'm not saying it's yeah, let's see what the star market looks like they should be in on a star if they become available. But if it's not, like you know, I don't even know trying to like, you're not gonna when you have Desmond bade in Jaw, I don't really think you need to go after a zach Lavine, a Bradley Beale. You want someone who can play the three or the four instead. So it's like Michael Bridges like that level, Jeremy Grant, that level of player. I think they will do that this summer. If they do not, I feel like people's jobs have to start being on the line because you can't trust internal development that just isn't Maybe you haven't peaked with like you're like Desmond Baine. No one saw this coming, but like it's very clear at this point that, Okay, Zayre Williams is not going to be your Jeremy Grant or Oganna Nobi or Michael Bridges of the future. Yeah. I think it's they're in a weird spot because you have there's this sort of this like I think of them a little bit like say the Celtics a few years ago, where it's like we have Smart, we have Brown, we have Hatum we've got this young core and let's you know, let's build it up, let's develop it. And it's like everybody when you're thinking about that type of team, that team doesn't just like wait, it goes out and it goes I mean, it messes up sometimes because it goes for Kyrie Irving or whatever, but you know, it goes and gets Al Horford, or it goes and gets these other veterans. You know, Derek White doesn't quite qualify. But even teams with these young cores, like Memphis has that you say, let's just let it, let's let it happen organically. We have these picks. Let's zier Willms is going to pan out. But teams in that position always go get that other guy or two, and it's usually veterans, and it's oftentimes guys that aren't even like we talk about timelines, that aren't even in the timeline with the young core. It's just you gotta get a couple of those guys that are older that you know, just that just give you what you need now, because there's no like guarantee that Williams is ever going to become anything like I think he's a swing. I thought he was like an X factor guy for Memphis this year because of what he might have been able to do at a position they needed. But and maybe that'll happen next year, but maybe it won't. So how long are you going to wait when you have a young core that's like really good, really good right now and it's gonna get better. But you need this idea that you just kind of wait and let it happen, doesn't It Just that's just that's not how it works. That's never how it works. There's no I mean unless you're talking about like the early twenty tens thunder right, where it's just like, yeah, they really did just have a bunch of young guys that eventually reached the finals. But I'm sure even then it's like there were there had to have been veterans on there, like Tabo Cephalosha and Nick Collinson or whatever, like you have to go get those guys. You can't keep waiting. Would you feel differently? At one? I think something that's overload tires. What are they waiting on now? Yeah, because it's much you think Zyer Williams is that play. It's not gonna be Aldama, It's not gonna be Roddy, you you like, even if you think those guys are solid rotation where it's like they're not the player that you actually need. And unbiased Pistons fan just brought this up as the question I'm gonna ask you, how would you feel if they're just trying to bide their time until the next mega acquisition potentially becomes available. I might understand it a little bit better because there's what has been the player that's been moved that they absolutely needed to be in on, Like everyone wanted them to get og And and Nobi. I thought that was a bad fit to begin with. Like, if you're telling me though you passed on me, I'll let's say they could have gotten Michel Bridges from Brooklyn after the Phoenix trade. If you passed on that because you're waiting on Jalen Brown will become available. I'm not about that, but if you're sitting here, I would respect it more where it's no like we're waiting for Jalen Brown or Brandon Ingram. We think things are gonna go south there if you're waiting for that level of player, because like they shouldn't. They shouldn't have been the team that went after go Bear or Murray or Donovan Mitchell. Kyle Kuzman didn't get traded. The Wizards didn't want to trade him, and so it's just like there wasn't a player yet that I guess Jeremy Grant getting traded the Blazers over the off season that didn't really cost them much, So you could make that case. But there hasn't been a ton of players who've been moved where it's like, well what the fuck, Memphis, Yeah, where were you on that one? There's not a lot of that. There's not a lot of that that's true. I mean that excuses them a little bit. But like you said, you know, this needs to be the off season probably, but it may again, like maybe it is the case that they're just isn't gonna be that guy. I mean, the Jalen Brown situation is like the Celtics, he's not going to sign an extension, so he's gonna get the free agency at some point. But I mean Memphis is really positioned to be more of a trade partner than someone that's going to sign like a superstar, right just because of all, you know, they have their picks and it's just a free agent and like all things being equal, I don't know how many free agents are choosing Memphis. Like as exciting as that team is, the marketing is, choose Memphis. I would say, choose Memphis if your free agent. This will be our last question. And I know you put thought into this. It was hard for me, Glad. Who do you think the top five coaches are in terms of XS and os? And who do you think are the top five coaches in terms of development? Also where does leadership fall in this? Yeah, I mean we have to start this with the typical coaching caveat of like we don't know ninety five percent of what goes into coaching an NBA basketball team. We just see what's on the floor, and we see player development. And there's enormous player development staffs that probably deserve more credit for guys getting better than the head coach, who just has other more macro issues to deal with. But all that said, and this is a you know, I'm curiously how much we diverge on this, But so I'm gonna go with my exes and those guys first, I think because that's a little bit easier because most of these guys are they have been around for a while and just like have track records. So I think Eric Spoelstra has to be thrown in for xs and os, like the Heat just always defend. They always you know, play, they always throw in more zone. They always seem to figure stuff out and playoff series, you know, all that kind of stuff. Spoelstra is just like established if he's not a top like three or four coach overall, I don't know, like what you're watching. I think Steve Kurrs pretty good XS and os, Like the Warriors play a difficult system and he really did. You know, you do have like the before and after of how they played with Mark Jackson and how they played with the same personnel and when Kurt took over and it was just like a world of difference. Kurs Atos are awesome, Like they almost always get good shots for shooters that the defense should know is going to get a shot, and they somehow manufacture it. I do think Quinn Snyder's there. This is where like freshly glad he got in there. I was struggling for fifth. But like I think it's fair to criticize the lack of playoff adjustments. I don't know how you separate that from just like what kind of offense the team runs. Like even Mike Budenholzer might deserve x's and os even though like he just gets killed for not adjusting and playing one way. But like, if you play one way and it works really well for a long time, I think that's favorable to you as opposed to like a detriment to Ron Lou. I think everybody talks about his adjustments, like nobody adjusts better than him, so that counts as x's and os for me. Not so much lately though, right like the falling in love with mark Is Morris. Yeah, I don't know like that. I guess that organization kind of saddled him with Westbrook, But yeah, I like mostly agree with you. But this season has been weird. It has been well, it's been a weird season for the Clippers period, Like you're trying to, I don't know. I think his reputation is pretty solid in that regard. I think his name comes up first a lot in in playoff series adjustments specifically, which is you know, like the highest level of XS and O stuff because you're figuring stuff out, you know, without knowing the answers to the test beforehand, because you're just getting ship thrown at you. And the last one is, I don't know what to do with this. So if you'd ask this question like three years ago, Nick Nurse might have been like number one in XS and o's and he might be out of a job. So I have Nick Nurse question mark. And then to counteract that, I have Rick Carlisle question mark because it does seem like his teams and the Pacers are a case for this, like figure out what works for them and they do that, Like the Pacers play really fast and this is a Carlisle team. The Mavericks played slow as shit, and that was a Carlisle team. And it's just because the personnel is different, and I think he's really good at maybe one of the hardest things is being malleable as like a strategic coach or you know, changing your tactics tactics to suit the personnel. That's a big thing, and I think he's be regarded as one of the better coaches at that. So you all the names you had were on my definitive list. The three that I absolutely had in there were Quinn Snyder, Elx bel Elstra, and my god, who's the third one on missing. What are your coaches again? I got Kur, Lou, Carlisle. Yeah, I had kerr as An. I think Kur has kind of become underrated. Brent does not think so really, And then I had all those other guys mentioned trying to figure out around them. I didn't know what to do with Lou this season. I think otherwise he would have just been in there for me. The two I wanted to mention, I don't think i'd have him here yet. Will Hardy has been really good this year for Utah. It's just tough with a rookie, but I think he's been really creative with a lot of his lineups in the way that the offense is run. And the one, so the name that I actually had in my top five that you did not, I have marked Dagnel of Okay. See. I think a lot of the and this is people with a higher level of understanding of the game, Like we'll put like the schematically what okayc can do on defense has always really impressed me. And they're like the willingness to sort of futs and fiddle with your lineups and your use outside of Shay on offense has been something that I think has just gone not overlooked. But it's just something I appreciate about, Like you can't I can't predict. I don't even know if people who watch every single Thunder game can predict their rotation. They're got a game of a game basis. And I'm not job just availability. I'm just saying he's deploy players and so I kind of appreciate that fluidity and I would have had I echo what you said about Nick Nurse. It's like some of the stuff he does seems like super creative, but he's he's kind of shown that he doesn't like can't adjust from there almost it's their defense hasn't materially changed this year from last season, and that's been a problem for them. I mean, they're they're playing really well now. And maybe it's different that pearls there as a rim protector. But I think Dag notes like a guy that I in terms of strategy, actually nose game management. I think he might be top five for me. I don't know if that's wild, though. I think for Nurse he's an interesting case because like his XS and O stuff might be just as good as it ever was, but where it seems like he's failing based on a lot of the reporting coming out. Is it like he's kind of a weird dude and he's just it's not it's not a tactical failure. It's the guys are just kind of like, I'm sick of this, like I'm not like he's not connecting like that. And then this that goes right back to like we have no idea what is happening in most locker rooms. So so I think if he gets bumped out of this, it might not actually have anything to do with x's and os. But I think we both really hesitated to throw him in there. Demost Cole asked what is Quinn Snyder's playing style after all? And I think this would be born from we saw like a lot less ball and body movement later on in that Jazz era. I think that just spoke a lot too, okay, like you brought in Bogdanovitch the way that Donovan Mitchell progress. I still view him as a coach that is going to have that ship ton of ball and body movement relative to others. And I'm I'm very I actually higher on the fit with Trey Young than a lot of other people are, because the assumption is Trey Young can't play differently, or Quinn Mike cater too much sort of. I don't even think he catered towards the end of Utah. It was just like you you kind of reached your like with Rudy Gobert as your center. I don't know that you were able to play as much creatively offensively. Maybe you have liked to in Atlanta, when you have a Kungu, when you have Jalen Johnson, when you have John Collins as alternatives to Clickapella at center, I think we might be able to see more creativity there. And I also just think, like Donna Mitchell to me, to me was used more creatively on offense than Tray Young has ever been. Whether that the Trey Young or coaching issue, we're about to find out, and so like, I think that's why. Also we didn't mention Greg Popovich. I don't know if that matters here, but he has to be I don't know what to do with him anymore. It's like, how do you judge what the sports he might be? This is the second phase of the question. You have anything to add on the Snyder stuff, though before just I think of his offensive style as like the term that was kind of coined was advantage basketball, and really one of the main tenants of that is just like you get the ball to players that are already on the move when they receive it, and it just that was a hallmark of like the really good Utah Jazz offense is that the guy had the guy with the ball had an advantage immediately against the defender because the defender is either chasing him or standing still and he's and the offensive players moving. It's really basic, but it's hard to get guys to play that way. And the last thing on Snyder is looking at how Gobert has cratered the Wolves offense this season and he was a different guy a few years ago. It's kind of amazing that the Jazz had a lot of number one offenses and top three offenses with him in the middle. Like that's I think that looks more impressive in hindsight seeing Gobert somewhere else. Now. The second phase of this question is what are your top five in terms of your development? And then also I think this ties into that and how much do you factor in coaching leadership to that development aspect of it? Yeah, this is the way harder than the other side of the question. So just looking at development, I think you get into like how much better players get or like how motivated they are, and how much you can tie that to the coach. So this is way fuzzier. It's way harder to discuss. But I actually had Dagnall here because for me, anybody cares our suit, what's that? He's there for me too. If anybody cares, oh, you got him in both, look at you. I just think the thunder are super young, and they play really hard, and everybody seems to like him, and like guys in season have gotten way better, like Giddy has improved this year and Jalen Williams doesn't. Both Jaleen Williamses have improved this year, and so that's just a it's the heavy lift. It would be really easy for that situation to go badly. I just think Dagnal just has like the ear of that team and has him playing the right way. I think Mike Brown belongs here because everybody loves that guy, and that's like, you know, you don't want to be the substitute teacher that everyone loves you because you let everyone get away with everything. But I think the style that he's brought, the way he's kind of gotten the most out of Fox, the way he's gotten Kevin Hurd in a handoff game that like he just didn't really play ever before he's gotten. He's letting Malik Monk, like, just do Malik Monk stuff off the bench. She's you know, I think a lot of development is just figuring out what the best version of a player is and letting him be that, not trying to force him into something. I think Taylor Jenkins, I don't have as much to say, but you know, the Grizzlies are a young team and he's kind of stewarded them to this point. I have Popovich here, so I don't know what else to explain that, and then I have Monty Williams, even though the DeAndre at and stuff is iffy, But like Booker has improved under him, Mikhail Bridges has improved a lot, and he trusted Bridges to play a way different role and like kind of stretch the bounds of his game. Towards the end of his tenure in Phoenix, cam Johnson got better. So this one's way harder. But all those guys I think can be credited with you know, having the ear of the players helping them improve and kind of not like forcing, not imposing their developmental plan on guys. They're just sort of being a little more flexible. And I had so everyone else that you mentioned was on my list here in the two that I also had on there, just to like, I'm not sure where I would put them exactly. I also wondered if we under Mike Buttonholzer in X's and Nose, looking at how the Mike Buonholser accused me change their defense. I have Jamal Mosley in Orlando just because I like, like just what I've seen wend O'carter Junior has been up and down this season, but what they've done with him since he got there. Paula Bancaro of course, Franz Wagner, and then who's the other one? Where's that? I lost the document that I was staring yet that might just be oh no, yeah, I think you covered everybody else. I might have had Chris finch on here last year, but this season I think he sort of fell off there, So I'm with you definitely, though Mike Brown I said I had Dagne there too, and then Taylor Jenkins probably belongs there as well, And yeah, I think that might be. That might be sort of it for me. I thought I had another name listed, but apparently I do not. I'm sure we're overlooking somebody and it's like a huge oversight. But oh, you said Monty Williams for some reason I had Monty Williams. Is like the discrepancy there, So yeah, I think the only one that just Jamal Mosley was the only one that you did not say that I had online. Is it weird that we don't have any of the coaches we did unless you count Buddenholzer. We don't have any coach from the top six teams in the East that's in either category I was gonna did I was about to ask you about a West coach. Do we undersell like Michael Malone as a leader and how MPJ has come along like what they did with Jamal Murray. Yokis themselves like that might be someone that we just need to vault up the ranks there. Malone is hard for me to judge because Yoki's just means your offense is gonna be awesome no matter what. So it's like, well, I don't know what his XS and O's input is on the offense and so I don't know what to do with him there. And then it's the kind of the thing when you have like a transcendent MVP level player, I feel weirdly like the coach just matters less because it's that player that kind of organizes the team. Maybe we give Kurt too much credit because he just got Steph Curry as he became a MB people like, I don't know, do you want to take us out? Yeah, let's take us out everybody. Thank you for submitting your questions, for joining us here on the live I've make sure that if you are not already, that you have subscribed and followed and made sure to know about our personal whereabouts at all times. Rate Reviews, subscribe, do everything you can to tell your friends and people you don't like about this podcast, and make sure that you are checking in with us on YouTube and everywhere else. We're going to do a b our live stream again on Thursday. I don't know if this will be out by the time that happens, but we've got a couple more that we keep you posted on. And yeah, thanks again, and as always, we will shout out the one and only Frank nil Keena and also apologize to Chad