1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,520 All I saw were whales. We got plenty of whales. Don't worry about 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:08,640 the whales. Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask what 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:14,839 you can do for your country. Mister Garbatscheff, tear down this wall. 4 00:00:16,039 --> 00:00:24,359 Read my lips. It's the Ricoche Podcast. Peter Robinson and Rob Long. 5 00:00:24,519 --> 00:00:28,320 I'm James Lennox and today our guest is the one, the only, Larry 6 00:00:28,359 --> 00:00:32,000 Cutlow. So let's Abrazel was a podcast. They spied up my campaign. 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,719 They did all sorts of things. I was under investigation and under season. 8 00:00:37,799 --> 00:00:40,799 So are my people. And if I wasn't tough, I wouldn't be here 9 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,520 right now. I guarantee you that. So if I didn't fight back, 10 00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:48,840 I didn't do here. America's a nation that can be defined in a single 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:55,520 word. I was a foot excuse Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, 12 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,359 number nine hundred and seventy two. I'm just kidding. I thought maybe you 13 00:00:59,399 --> 00:01:00,240 would, you know, wake up and say, wait a minute, I 14 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,079 missed three hundred of them. Now we'll get there eventually, and we'll get 15 00:01:03,079 --> 00:01:10,120 there through the grace and wit and wisdom and intelligence of the founders who founded 16 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,400 Ricochet in the first place, Peter Robinson and Rob Long. I'm James Lilax 17 00:01:12,439 --> 00:01:17,480 in sun splashed Minnesota. Rob Long is on his deck up in Gotham, 18 00:01:17,519 --> 00:01:19,040 where it looks to be beautiful, and Peter is in California, where of 19 00:01:19,079 --> 00:01:25,319 course it's green and lush and wonderful June, the first week of is there 20 00:01:25,359 --> 00:01:27,680 anything so rare? It's a beautiful time. But of course what we're all 21 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,640 paying attention to is the blood on the floor and the political matters where DeSantis 22 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,359 and Trump seemed to have finally decided that it's on. So welcome, gentlemen, 23 00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:42,400 And how have you viewed the last week where the slumbering descantist campaign seems 24 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:48,599 to have woken up and started to address particular things that are being aimed at 25 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:56,879 them politics at last high time. That's my view of it. High time. 26 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,480 And it ain't bean ball, and it ain't bean ball, No, 27 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:06,040 it ain't ball. Um, I guess what my Rick de Santis unchained? 28 00:02:06,519 --> 00:02:13,439 Rob is rob Meatball, Rob Meatball geese ron excuse me, I'm so I 29 00:02:13,479 --> 00:02:15,199 was about to do some little riff on the way he seems to be pronouncing 30 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,520 his name, and then I screwed up. Anyway, Okay, so Rond 31 00:02:17,759 --> 00:02:23,680 Santis or de santiss or, who knows. Anyway, the guy is tough 32 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:29,479 and smart. I still stand by their comment that I think Rob and I 33 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,680 agreed on this. In some way, he's not quite himself in front of 34 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,479 a camera. There's some kind of stiffness there. But when you see him 35 00:02:36,479 --> 00:02:39,439 making eye contact as he did in IYO with actual human beings in the crowd, 36 00:02:40,039 --> 00:02:45,000 he's pretty good. He's pretty good. Also, I have to say 37 00:02:45,039 --> 00:02:51,719 I'm torn about this because I don't want a field of thirty five candidates vying 38 00:02:51,719 --> 00:02:54,280 for the Republican nomination. Some of them, it seems to me, are 39 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,680 vying for the vice presidency, and some of them are simply vying for book 40 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,159 contracts and they're own talk shows or their own radio shows. On the other 41 00:03:02,199 --> 00:03:07,800 hand, I'm very happy to see Chris christ To get into the race. 42 00:03:07,319 --> 00:03:13,719 Chris Christie has his drawbacks, for sure, but again, he's tough, 43 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,800 and he's smart, and he's willing to go right at Donald Trump. Um. 44 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:22,039 All this strikes me as good news. I have enjoyed the last week 45 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:27,719 of politics and Pence's entry. He might get the impression of is he informally 46 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,960 yet it's happening. It's happening. I want to know what sort of Spengali 47 00:03:32,599 --> 00:03:37,719 can work his mesmerism to convince some of these guys that this is their time. 48 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:39,840 Um, you know, and I mean Pence is going to be like 49 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,360 respected the man in the past, but in this point, at this point, 50 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:50,439 he's like the court gesture who finds himself on the throne addressing the formerly 51 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,439 you know, the posed king who beat him. I mean, I know, 52 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:58,120 I mean, I mean he can say things from the inside that the 53 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,919 rest of them can't. Now whether or not he will another question, But 54 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,120 don't you think so? I mean, he was privy to all sorts of 55 00:04:04,159 --> 00:04:09,479 inside things that coming from him. One would have a tendency to believe he's 56 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,680 in an obvious bind. He was much too loyal to Donald Trump, much 57 00:04:13,719 --> 00:04:18,959 too loyal to Donald Trump for three years and eleven months of that administration for 58 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:24,560 the Trump haters ever to forgive him. And then he was too disloyal to 59 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:28,319 Donald Trump for the Trump supporters ever to forgive him. That strikes me as 60 00:04:28,319 --> 00:04:30,680 a pretty serious bind. On the other hand, again, this is this 61 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,560 man is intelligent, articulate, he's deeply experienced, He's been a congressman, 62 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:40,519 a governor, vice president. Let's see what he has to say. Sorry, 63 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,319 Rob, Rob, you're on the rooftop there in I'm on the roof 64 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,319 in the village. Let's hear what the view from the rooftop. Well, 65 00:04:46,319 --> 00:04:48,600 you know, I've always thought Pants, I mean Pants is a lot more 66 00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:55,560 conservative than I am, certainly, and that he's more conservative than I that 67 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,800 you've never been comfortable with, right. But he's a very good politician. 68 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:01,160 I mean, as you say, though, you don't get to win all 69 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:06,199 those statewides without being good, especially in um in the kind of the good 70 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:11,000 the good government with Midwest. So I actually feel like he's a pretty decent 71 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:15,000 candidate so far. I mean, he hasn't done anything yet, but you 72 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,560 know the outlines. I like Christie because Christie's a bomb thrower and he can 73 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,839 think on a speech. And I've always enjoyed Christie. I mean, I 74 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:26,480 remember this is how old I am. I remember friends of mine in show 75 00:05:26,519 --> 00:05:31,120 business when Christy was like the big star in Republican politics in two thousand and 76 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:36,399 eight, the first Obama term, And when they were before they would start 77 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:40,519 work, they would they would watch what they called Christie plorn. They would 78 00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:45,160 go on YouTube and they would find the Chris Christie video clips where he was 79 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:51,079 just eviscerating the press and eviscerating the teachers unions, and it was all off 80 00:05:51,079 --> 00:05:55,439 the cuff, and he was articulate, and it was like this. All 81 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,079 we could think of was my God, Chris Christie. I cannot wait for 82 00:05:58,199 --> 00:06:00,000 him to be president United States. Of course, that was as I said 83 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,480 many many, many years ago. But I'm he still seems to have that 84 00:06:02,519 --> 00:06:08,319 fire. So I'm excited about the fight, right like you are. I'm 85 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,920 a little concerned lately, though, that the two front riders of who I'm 86 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,160 calling the two front runers, they may not be the runners a Trump and 87 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:20,319 De santists seem to be having like a who's stupider contest. For Trump to 88 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:26,319 say, as he did earlier this week, that actually, Chris that um 89 00:06:27,399 --> 00:06:31,600 Cuomo Andrew Cuomo, governor of New York, was a better COVID governor than 90 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:38,079 Ron De Santis is just stupid. It's almost indefensibly stupid. It shows a 91 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:43,399 guy who just simply can't doesn't recognize the problems with COVID, the problems that 92 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,639 he caused, the problems that he inherited, and doesn't understand what happened and 93 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:53,199 will say anything, however idiotic to sort of score points. It's just dumb. 94 00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:56,920 And then I expected Ron de Santis to be sort of smart, and 95 00:06:56,959 --> 00:06:59,879 now run to Santis is saying things like, well, you know, Operation 96 00:07:00,079 --> 00:07:02,879 Warp Speed and the vaccination was a mistake and a disaster, and that's just 97 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,560 stupid. And I was actually impressed by Donald Trump's response to that to a 98 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,839 voter who said, hey, what about this vaccine? And he really I 99 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:15,600 mean Operation Warp Speed was one of these like stellar accomplishments of the Trump administration, 100 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:25,000 and it was a blueprint for government sponsoring technological emergency innovation that will be 101 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:30,199 studied and emulated, I think, I hope for decades. So, you 102 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,560 know, for Ron de Santis to sort of take issue with it, it's 103 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:38,000 just so stupid, Like why can't these two guys attack each other like, 104 00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:41,040 you know, like they're supposed to. They don't have to be dumb about 105 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,560 it. One of the things that Trump's team has done is put out a 106 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,560 series of tweets accusing Ron de Santis and wanting a twenty three percent sales tax 107 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:54,439 on the nation, which looks bad. Gosh, gee, that's that's horrible. 108 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,399 But of course the beauty of it now is that in the Twitter world 109 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:03,279 there's something called commune enter team notes. Yes, and this has really changed 110 00:08:03,319 --> 00:08:05,319 the way these things work. It used to be that you could come out 111 00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:07,519 and say something like that, you'd have to go to the comments and scroll 112 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,759 through a bunch of garbage to get people saying, actually, know what he's 113 00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:13,879 talking about is the you know, the fair tax that would be in place 114 00:08:13,399 --> 00:08:18,519 after we'd abolished the IRS and personal income tax. It's right there under the 115 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,879 tweet. It's right there. Community not its people have noted, so that 116 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:28,439 instantaneous you can have the most the most formidable, capable communications team you want, 117 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,679 with great graphics and splaining and know how is to when to time it 118 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:37,480 and how to phrase it, which they don't, and instantaneously it's undercut by 119 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:43,320 one guy who's making a note that everybody else sees. And I think that's 120 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,600 going to be cool, and I think it's going to be a welcome addition 121 00:08:46,639 --> 00:08:50,000 to the political discs. It's I mean, Matt Walsh said, not Matt 122 00:08:50,039 --> 00:08:54,519 Walsh, um oh Man, I forget his name. Back during the the 123 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,519 early days of blogging, said, you know, this is the Internet and 124 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,799 we can fact check your your but and that was true then, but you 125 00:09:01,879 --> 00:09:03,279 had to go to a blog and you had to read a point. Now 126 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:09,720 it's real time fact checking, which I don't think we've seen like that before. 127 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,320 I agree, so far, I've liked it. I liked that this 128 00:09:13,399 --> 00:09:20,080 is the back to them on the candidates. I have to agree that so 129 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,360 far, so far, I have the feeling I'm just being well. Of 130 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,279 course, politics is a subjective business, but I have the feeling that Donald 131 00:09:28,279 --> 00:09:33,080 Trump is not bringing out the best in Ronda Santis, that de Sandis feels 132 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,000 somehow he's got to get down load. It'll be interesting to see the way 133 00:09:37,039 --> 00:09:41,759 Chris Christie handles this problem. Chris Christie knows Trump has watched him work for 134 00:09:41,879 --> 00:09:45,759 him. Of course, Christie's problem is that he was against Trump, then 135 00:09:45,799 --> 00:09:46,759 he was for Trump, and then he was against him again, and then 136 00:09:46,799 --> 00:09:50,919 he helped him the transition, and then he helped Who knows right where it 137 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:56,559 all ends up, but is Chris Christie. Chris Christie will be forceful, 138 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,120 He'll throw a punch after punch after punch. Something tells me he won't. 139 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,600 There won't be the feeling that he's been that he's stooping, that he's climbing 140 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,039 down into the governor. Well, because he's a fighter. I mean, 141 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,240 that's because that's what he is. I mean, I actually was impressed. 142 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:15,519 I kind of liked it. I mean, I mean, you know, 143 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,279 not I thought it was destially accurate, but I kind of liked it. 144 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,080 When Trump is attacking Desantist for being a tax racer, that is what Republican 145 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:28,440 candidates do. That is that whenever Trump behaves like a buyer brand Republican using 146 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,000 his opponents of trying to raise taxes, I'm like, that's my sweet spot, 147 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,399 stay there right. Whether it's true or not. I mean, it's 148 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,879 actually rarely true the way they talk about it, but um, I mean 149 00:10:39,919 --> 00:10:43,399 certainly within Republican party. But I think the big difference here is going to 150 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:50,519 be that in twenty sixteen, every single candidate on the day is there was 151 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,919 trying to avoid going after Trump. They all thought, we'll leave this guy 152 00:10:54,919 --> 00:10:58,879 alone, let him play his little game. I'll be here to pick up 153 00:10:58,879 --> 00:11:01,919 the pieces. This time, it's the opposite. Every single one of those 154 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,679 guys in the Daists has got to be the one that holds Trump's head aloft 155 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:11,480 and say I killed otherwise it's over. So if your pants, there's no 156 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,799 middle ground. If you're Christie, there's no middle ground. If you're de 157 00:11:13,879 --> 00:11:16,519 Santists, you have a little bit because you're kind of like the superstar of 158 00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:22,720 the public party now which probably fade over time, but that's it. I 159 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,799 mean, if I'm Trump, I'm not going to those debates because every single 160 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,559 person on that day is still be going after me because it's really the Kamakaze 161 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,159 mission and those are sort of dangerous opponents to have. So they might all 162 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,840 get they might all go down low. What's gonna What's Trump gonna say? 163 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,679 Like? Why is everybody being so mean? What happened to stability? You 164 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,399 can't say that. Well, they're gonna hang Fauchi around his neck and Burkes 165 00:11:45,399 --> 00:11:46,519 and the rest of it as they should, as they should. I mean, 166 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,480 I'm with you about the vaccine deal. I think that's a bad move 167 00:11:50,519 --> 00:11:54,320 for to Santist, But they can use Fauch and they can use the rest 168 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,519 of it. And I mean the Desantist campaign came out with a like a 169 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:01,399 ninety second two minute clip of trumping about shutting it down. We did the 170 00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:03,240 right thing. We shut it down. We did the right thing. We 171 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,080 did the right thing. All kinds of context and variouspeeches and the rest of 172 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,360 it. Now, some of that may be cherry picked. Some of us 173 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,559 may be saying, oh yes in March, in April we wanted to show 174 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,600 etc. But it's effective and it portrayed, and it's it says, are 175 00:12:15,639 --> 00:12:18,720 you can you can you guarantee you We're not going to get another lockdown from 176 00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:22,399 this guy. Um No, as people are pointing out drug, Trump is 177 00:12:22,399 --> 00:12:26,440 spending his time defending the last four he hit, the four years that he 178 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,440 had it, and that's a long time ago. It's forever ago. Nobody 179 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,240 wants to talk about that anymore. We want to look forward. And when 180 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,600 he talks about I'm going to drain the swamp, I think who was it 181 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,720 today? Was it DeSantis or somebody the others who said, well, look 182 00:12:37,759 --> 00:12:39,879 you had four years, he had four years and you didn't do any of 183 00:12:39,879 --> 00:12:45,080 this stuff. What makes us think that you, now older and more damaged, 184 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,000 UH is going to be able to do it again? So yeah, 185 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:54,200 it's it's it's an absolutely fascinating time. And I don't think anybody is going 186 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,639 I don't think Christy or Pence will pull more than half of one percent. 187 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,120 That is probably. I want to circle back to something. Rob just made 188 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,639 a point I had. I hadn't thought of it this way, but the 189 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,519 way he just framed it is not only true, but I think the main 190 00:13:09,639 --> 00:13:13,320 dynamic we're going to see at least in the first three primaries, and that 191 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,519 I'm thinking now in particular of Chris Christie. If you're Chris Christie, what 192 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,519 are the incentives you face? Do you think you can actually get to be 193 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,679 president? Probably? Not? Well, then why do you want to go 194 00:13:24,759 --> 00:13:28,120 in? You want to go in for the fun of it, because you 195 00:13:28,159 --> 00:13:31,279 want to be back in the action. Well, how do you enjoy yourself? 196 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,879 If you're Chris Christie, you go after Donald Trump? Suppose you know, 197 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:41,279 suppose you already know, there's the chances are more than nine out of 198 00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:43,519 ten that you're not going to make it. So if you go into this, 199 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,799 how do you avoid embarrassed? Ah? Here's what you do. You 200 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:52,360 will have the gratitude of all your friends in Manhattan and New Jersey for the 201 00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:58,840 rest of your life if you're the guy who took him down, and the 202 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:03,519 way right, whoever the president is exactly and cleared the way. For So 203 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:09,759 I hadn't thought that. This is exactly the point that the incentives now for 204 00:14:09,879 --> 00:14:15,320 everybody in the race, but in particular for Chris Christie, for for de 205 00:14:15,399 --> 00:14:18,000 Santis too. But DeSantis at the same time he has to be worrying about 206 00:14:18,039 --> 00:14:24,000 looking president, not Chris Christie. His whole aim here is to go torpedo 207 00:14:24,159 --> 00:14:28,919 like for that great orange presence. M hadn't thought of it. But you're 208 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,240 exactly right. I also remember there's a there's bitterness there right, Oh, 209 00:14:33,679 --> 00:14:37,200 this revenge too, like Christie was supposed to be the Attorney general and Jared 210 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,639 Kushner because Chris Christie put Jared Kushner's father in jail legitimately by the way, 211 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,039 um, he richly deserved to be in jail. Um. But Christier said, 212 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,399 no, we can't have Christie in the administration Trump. Of course, 213 00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:52,200 you know, he rolled a lot to Jared Jared, which has been another 214 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,879 series of problems. Um. And so Christie wants he wants revenge. There's 215 00:14:56,919 --> 00:15:03,039 nothing I think that drives somebody more than just that moral lago meets the Red 216 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:09,440 wedding with Chris Christie and his medieval outfits with a sword dripping with the grew 217 00:15:09,559 --> 00:15:15,919 and gore of the man he slaying exactly speaking of Grew and Gore, No, 218 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,600 it's actually not speaking of civility and fascination and intellectual perspicacity in the like 219 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,639 Larry Cudlow column is for The New York Sun, host of the Fox Business 220 00:15:24,639 --> 00:15:30,399 news shows Cutlow, which airs at four pm Eastern Time weekdays. We welcome 221 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:35,960 him back with gratitude and warmth. Larry, Hello, my favorite never trumpers. 222 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,320 Is the pleasure? All right? We got a deal? Should we 223 00:15:39,399 --> 00:15:43,960 be pleased about this? Dancing about this? I mean, gosh, the 224 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,519 deficit is going to go down by one point five trillion over the course of 225 00:15:46,519 --> 00:15:52,120 a decade, even though those numbers kind of magical and suspect. Is this 226 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,519 the best we could get? Is this just politics as usual? What's your 227 00:15:54,559 --> 00:16:03,120 take? No, it's a good deal. Bye. I mean Kevin McCarthy 228 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:10,600 ran circles around Joe Biden got him to completely change his entire point of view 229 00:16:10,759 --> 00:16:18,600 from a clean debt bill to a debt bill that has significant spending cuts and 230 00:16:18,799 --> 00:16:26,679 significant policy changes, very good policy changes, things like workfare and permitting and 231 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:37,279 regular budget on appropriations and pago on regulations. Everything Biden did not want. 232 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:44,519 And McCarthy did a heck of a job not only doing that stuff, but 233 00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:55,759 as I say, the way McCarthy handled himself, insistent but always open to 234 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:03,679 compromise or talking the language of compromise, and so many press conferences, so 235 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:10,200 off the cuff meetings, you know, with reporters in the hallways of Congress. 236 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,920 I mean, he really did a masterful job. And he got two 237 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:18,920 fairs of the Republican Conference with him. So I thought it was very good. 238 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,640 And I think what you've got here, you know, this is something 239 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,039 new Gingrich and I have talked a lot about on the air, and except 240 00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:30,319 that Kevin and I have talked a lot about during this whole process, you've 241 00:17:30,319 --> 00:17:40,839 got a large first step towards restoring conservative economic principles and pro growth principles and 242 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:47,680 anti inflation principles. So I think it's actually a very very important win politically, 243 00:17:48,319 --> 00:17:52,920 and it's a very important win fiscally, and it will help the economy 244 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,799 a bit. And it's the first step. There'll be much more coming, 245 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:04,400 Learry can I So you said that Kevin took Biden to the cleaners, and 246 00:18:04,519 --> 00:18:08,240 the Senates just has approved this now one by about a margin of three to 247 00:18:08,319 --> 00:18:14,119 one in the House, he got most Republicans, overwhelming number of Democrats. 248 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,839 All right, So there are a couple of explanations here, and I have 249 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:25,759 before getting to the question, I have to just Kevin McCarthy's reputation right up 250 00:18:25,839 --> 00:18:30,920 until the becoming speaker was very nice guy. But the idea that he understood 251 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,519 he himself never claimed to be a policy guy. The idea that he understood 252 00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:41,279 policy, that he understood strategy. He was a wonderful chief whip. He's 253 00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:48,039 the guy you want to count noses. But Kevin as a negotiator. So 254 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:52,480 then we get this dead ceiling. Seems to be their two explanations. One 255 00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:59,720 explanation is that Democrats suddenly realized how out of step they are with the great 256 00:18:59,759 --> 00:19:07,519 boy of the American people. Or Kevin McCarthy is one shrewd figure. He 257 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:15,079 has been underestimated throughout his career, and now we see him in action and 258 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,839 it's an impressive show. What do you think? Well, what about both, 259 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,519 Peter? I mean, I'm leaving the great synthesis to you, Larry, 260 00:19:23,559 --> 00:19:32,920 go ahead. Now, I think I think he's a very underrated guy, 261 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:38,440 and I think the public is sick and tired of Biden's frenzied spending and 262 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:48,440 government's central planning and regulatory overreach, and inflation is still the number one problem, 263 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,160 and real wages are still falling. Look, I you know, Kevin 264 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:59,680 McCarthy is a longtime friend of mine. When I was working in the White 265 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,559 House, I used to bring him into a lot of meetings with the President 266 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,359 in the you know, the dining room behind the Oval office late in the 267 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:14,640 afternoon, early in the evening. One of the receptionists would say that, 268 00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:18,119 you know, Kevin McCarthy's here, and I'd go out and instead of making 269 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,519 wait, I'd go out and bring him in. And you know, he's 270 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:29,920 learned a lot. He's working hard. He's a very affable guy. As 271 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:37,359 you suggested, He's climbed the ranks. You know, he's he's been around, 272 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,920 he's seen the mistakes and he's learned from them. And I think also 273 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:49,480 as hard as it was for him to win on fifteen ballots for a speaker, 274 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:56,279 I think that was a very positive experience. And the Freedom Caucus people. 275 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:00,799 You've got some very very smart Freedom Caucus people, and I think that 276 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:07,039 helped him and proved him, made him a better speaker. And you know, 277 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:12,119 the turning point for this stuff was not so much the debt deal. 278 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:22,880 It was the Republican debt ceiling legislation that they said, that was the shot 279 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:32,920 across the bow that changed the entire political calculus in Washington. The White House 280 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:41,400 did not take him or the Republican House seriously when they put that resolution together 281 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,079 that actually wasn't a resolution, it was a bill. And the bill was 282 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:51,759 well received. That's the thing. You have these middle of the road think 283 00:21:51,759 --> 00:22:00,319 tanks in Washington, like the Peterson Institute or the Committee for whatever it's called 284 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,839 Responsible Federal Budget, Maam McGinnis. They came out and said this is a 285 00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:10,759 good common sense bill. Well, that put tremendous pressure, and you got 286 00:22:10,839 --> 00:22:15,799 guys like Jeff Stein, who's a pretty good economics reporter for the Washington Post, 287 00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:21,200 writing about that and put tremendous pressure on Biden in the White House and 288 00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:26,519 made them realize between that and the polls that they were making a gigantic mistake. 289 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,039 So Larry, go ahead, No, no, no, no, 290 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,839 go ahead. Well, I was just where did that legislation come from. 291 00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:38,839 You've got between the Speaker Kevin McCarthy and his chief whip Steve Scalise. You've 292 00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:45,079 got two guys who whose reputations are as nose counters, very good politicians, 293 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,559 but who put together this bill, who thought through the economic strategy you get 294 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,119 if you want to say, well, actually I wrote it for them, 295 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:56,559 and they just called if you want to insert yourself, Larry, go ahead, 296 00:22:56,559 --> 00:23:00,079 But where did it come from? Seriously? Well, look, um 297 00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:07,960 couple look at him. There are some former Trump office holders who have helped 298 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:18,640 myself included, Kevin Hassett included. But you also have a lot of smart 299 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:25,759 people in the Republican Conference. Uh. You know, Graves is a very 300 00:23:25,799 --> 00:23:32,039 smart guy. The guy running the Banking Committee's a smart guy who you know, 301 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:37,599 was one of the two negotiators. Mckenry, Pat mcannon. He's a 302 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:45,440 very smart guy. Um Byron Donalds is a very smart guy. French Hill 303 00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:48,240 is a very smart guy. I mean, I'm not gonna go down the 304 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,039 whole of it, but there's a lot of talent, a lot of talent 305 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,920 you're you're gonna see. You know, these these House members who were junior 306 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,640 members now becoming more your members. Many of them will go on to serve 307 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,720 in the Senate or governorships. The GOP has a very deep base, and 308 00:24:07,759 --> 00:24:15,240 they're all contributing these policy things. You see, the mistake the Republicans made 309 00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:22,880 in the mid term elections was not specifying policy. It was general. You 310 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,960 know, we hate inflation, all right, well we all hate inflation, 311 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,119 but they never spelled it out. We were begging them too. I don't 312 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,759 know how many of them I used to have on the show, especially the 313 00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:37,920 Senate candidates. But anyway, inside the House, they're doing a heck of 314 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,920 a good job. It's a very interesting policy laboratory. And I might also 315 00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:53,359 add McCarthy and Scalice and others have a number of former Trump staff serving on 316 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:59,960 their staffs right now, so there's a lot of depth in policy development. 317 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,640 Hey, Larry, I think thinking back to January, if those you know, 318 00:25:04,759 --> 00:25:10,720 sixteen thousand ballots that Speaker McCarthy had to go through, and at the 319 00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:12,000 end of the day, I think a lot of people are thinking, well, 320 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:18,079 I don't think we've ever had a weaker Speaker of the House, right, 321 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,920 I mean, you know what happened in all those ballots, And yet 322 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,039 the guy somehow turns it around and he does a really great job, and 323 00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:30,160 he sort of knows what he's doing, and he manages to keep a pretty 324 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,319 powerful coalition together. He manages to make policy arguments that I mean, you 325 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,279 know, work requirements and things like that that I think people really do feel 326 00:25:38,279 --> 00:25:45,119 strongly about all of that stipulated. And yet I can't help think that, 327 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:51,480 you know, we're here again, like we're having these debt ceilings, debates 328 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:57,839 and crises all the time. What are we not fixing that needs to be 329 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:07,880 fixed? You know, Rob One of the great House speakers was Nicholas Longworth. 330 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,680 I think he was the turn of the last century. I knew him. 331 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:22,000 I knew him. He was married to Kenny Roosevelt's daughter. They thought 332 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,440 he they thought he was a fop, but he turned out to be a 333 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,119 hell of a good speaker. Just just saying, you never know what these 334 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:37,960 things you never know, right. So the look, the problem in the 335 00:26:37,079 --> 00:26:45,480 last couple of years and is the Democratic Party has moved pard to the left. 336 00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:52,400 During the campaign of twenty twenty, Joe Biden made a deal with Bernie 337 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,599 Sanders. I mean it literally made a deal on paper, and Joe Biden 338 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:02,920 said people didn't pay enough attention to this that I'm going to follow your lade, 339 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,839 your guidance. So the party turn socialist. So they come into power. 340 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:14,200 They have all three houses, and they go and spend six trillion dollars, 341 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,799 and they put on the board two trillion dollars worth of higher regulatory costs, 342 00:27:19,599 --> 00:27:26,720 and they wage war against the fossil fuel business. And some people call 343 00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:33,119 it modern monetary theory. Well, modern monetary theory has utterly failed. All 344 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,960 right. Inflation is still high, growth is low. We're on the cusp 345 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:44,079 of a recession. The country is in revolved. Middle income blue collar working 346 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,200 folks, lower middle income working folks are losing money. Their take on pay 347 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:56,000 is fawling. You can't have that. It's not sustainable. So the left 348 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:02,880 had their way. The pendulum swung way way too far, and now the 349 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,279 panagulum is beginning to swing back. But do you think we're ever going to 350 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,880 get out of this? I guess I have two questions. One is it 351 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:18,839 seems my premise is that we have an enormous federal entitlement problem. We don't 352 00:28:18,839 --> 00:28:23,440 seem to want to get our hands around that. There are two solutions to 353 00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:30,440 this. One is to raise taxes and the other is to grow. And 354 00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:33,319 I guess, my guess my concern is, And I just I'm asking for 355 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,319 your prognostications because you are a you are a pro growth economist. You've been 356 00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:42,599 arguing for growth for as long as I've known you, and you do and 357 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,359 you do it. I mean I I basically steal your ideas and say they're 358 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,440 my own. That's that's how smart I think you are. Brought you forget 359 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,640 the third option, returning to the gold standard. Now, okay, right, 360 00:28:52,720 --> 00:29:00,000 right, right, um, assuming for a minute that we're not really 361 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,960 we're not ready as a country to have a conversation about entitlement reform, because 362 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,920 like you know, that seems like a like we're not what are the what 363 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,319 are the things we can do? But what are the things that we as 364 00:29:10,319 --> 00:29:15,240 citizens of voters can agitate for and demand that are with big parts of a 365 00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:21,240 pro growth agenda? That but growth agenda that Reagan sort of um, who 366 00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:25,720 was the greatest economics professor in American history, taught us to focus on, 367 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,960 which I feel like we're in trouble now because we're not growing. Alvin Coolidge 368 00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:36,079 wasn't bad either, yet, that man, um, Look, growth is 369 00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:42,680 everything. Growth is everything. You know, there's six seven eight million people 370 00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:49,799 according to Nick everstat of AI who are able bodied people who should be working, 371 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,559 and they're not, largely because they're being subsidized not to work by the 372 00:29:55,559 --> 00:30:00,640 federal government. Right if you've got and and the McCarthy. The deal made 373 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:11,400 some modest but probably significant adjustments, So workfare will gradually be restored in the 374 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:17,319 next few years. You know, you put those people to work, you're 375 00:30:17,359 --> 00:30:22,440 going to generate higher incomes for them, but also at existing tax rates, 376 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:30,079 you're going to generate more revenues, particularly payroll tax revenues. That's one solution. 377 00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:36,720 Now, the first thing you have to do is elect a Republican president 378 00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:41,880 and a Republican Senate to go along with the Republican House. Okay, that 379 00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:48,400 is very important. I mean that. I know politically that's obvious, but 380 00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:55,119 I'm saying to you it's very very important. And so far as entitlements are 381 00:30:55,160 --> 00:31:00,640 considered, there are some structural issues that need fixing. And the way to 382 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,440 do that is to appoint a commission. And it's probably going to be a 383 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:11,839 bipartisan commission, just like Reagan did when I was a young pup working for 384 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,599 him, and he had the Greenspan Commission, and he put Pat moynihan on 385 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,960 that, and he put Lane Kirkland on that and the rest of us were 386 00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:23,759 staff members to help them, and they worked out a very good deal, 387 00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:27,480 a very good deal, and it lasted for about, I don't know, 388 00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:33,680 forty years, fifty years, So you'll probably have to do something like that. 389 00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:37,279 McCarthy, by the way, announced that he would go for some kind 390 00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:44,200 of budget commission. Whether that will include the big entitlements, I don't know. 391 00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:48,200 I haven't. I talked to him last on Sunday. I haven't talked 392 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,039 to him this week. But you know, that's what you'll have to do. 393 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:59,720 But rob growth is essential. I mean looking, I've been carrying around 394 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:07,640 in my briefcase the following from the end of World War Two, when the 395 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:15,519 government statistics were made uniform and more reliable. Between nineteen forty seven and two 396 00:32:15,599 --> 00:32:22,519 thousand, a year two thousand, the American economy grew at three and a 397 00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:32,839 half percent per year after inflation over fifty years. Unfortunately, since two thousand, 398 00:32:34,839 --> 00:32:39,880 the economy averaging now about one point eight percent. It had a little 399 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:49,000 blip in George W. Bush's presidency, a little blip, and it had 400 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:55,319 a similarly temporary blip under Trump, but it's now lapsed back. You know, 401 00:32:55,599 --> 00:32:59,599 in fact, the last fifteen months, the economy has grown by less 402 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,359 than one What are we doing wrong? So well, there's too much government, 403 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,599 that's what we're doing. Boat anchors around the neck of the beast. 404 00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:10,279 That's right, that's exactly right. There's too much sand in the gears. 405 00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:15,440 There's too much regulation. Trump did a good job rolling back regulations. Biden 406 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:21,839 comes in and reverses the whole bloody thing. Okay, they're starting to raise 407 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:27,480 taxes again. Very bad. The whole tax system still could be lowered and 408 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,279 simplified. We also have flirted with inflation again. I mean, look, 409 00:33:31,319 --> 00:33:38,279 we didn't have any inflation for about forty years. Boarded reading about six weeks 410 00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:43,960 into a Roman orgy with it. I mean, look, you know, 411 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,680 you laugh about the gold standard, but people should use as a reference point 412 00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:52,599 for the value of the dollar. They should use gold and a broad commodity 413 00:33:52,640 --> 00:34:00,640 index, so COVID, COVID with the emergency spending. See here here's the 414 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:10,000 problem, the fiscal problem. We passed a two trillion dollars some odd bill. 415 00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:15,400 Actually it is probably close to three trillion, the so called Cares Act 416 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:22,840 in twenty twenty. Okay, I was very much a part of that negotiating. 417 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,599 Steve Manusian was our lead. I was a deputy. It was a 418 00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:32,360 bipartisan bill. It's something we had to do. And the fellow reserved bought 419 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:39,039 the bonds we sold and pumped up the money supply, and commodity prices started 420 00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:43,760 soaring. And so for now, that by itself was not inflationary. The 421 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:52,519 inflation didn't start till later. Why because when those programs started expiring in twenty 422 00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:57,920 twenty one, okay, the bidens went in and what did they do. 423 00:34:58,199 --> 00:35:01,079 They put out a two trillion dollars so called whatever it's called, the American 424 00:35:01,119 --> 00:35:07,960 Relief Act, which even good Keynesians like Larry Summer Summers, yes, Sathan 425 00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:12,079 Furman. Furman's a terrific economist. By the way, he's a good friend 426 00:35:12,119 --> 00:35:16,880 of mine. Austin Gouldsby said a little bit, although he was bucking for 427 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:22,519 a job. But the point is, you know what I will call adults, 428 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:30,679 responsible economic people on both sides of the aisle said don't do this right, 429 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,480 and they went and did it, and they kept on doing it, 430 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,559 and rob they would have kept on doing it right through this debt ceiling, 431 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:45,519 except they ran into Kevin McCarthy in a Republican House, Larry, I want 432 00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:49,000 to return to this insight of yours, because I take it well, let's 433 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,880 put it this way. Reagan gets elected and says, an effect, the 434 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,480 best we can do with social securities put together a commission, patch it up. 435 00:35:58,519 --> 00:36:00,360 They did patch it up pretty well. See it for some period of 436 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:07,000 a couple decades, and take it okay, and take it off the table, 437 00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:10,320 so we can get to what we can do, which is promote growth. 438 00:36:10,599 --> 00:36:16,000 George W. Bush gets reelected and says I'm going to devote my second 439 00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:22,880 term to entitlement reform, and he wastes an entire year taking on social security 440 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:30,199 head on and getting exactly nowhere. The central insight here is you do what 441 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:37,239 you can with entitlement programs, but you don't go down rabbit holes. Republicans 442 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:43,719 need to save their principal energy, their principal fight for tax cuts and rolling 443 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:49,719 back regulations and promoting growth. You can contain the welfare state, but the 444 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,800 name of the game is permitting the private economy to grow faster than the welfare 445 00:36:53,840 --> 00:37:00,280 state. Correct, Correct, All right, that you're allowed to say more, 446 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:05,880 Larry, Just we see so rarely says correct to you that the first 447 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,920 time I've known Larry for forty years, and that's the first time he's ever 448 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,400 thought I got anything right. I say, this group on the whole has 449 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:21,119 been definitely picked its game up. Inflation and a recession will do that tens 450 00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:25,039 to focus the mind. Listen, Biden, socialistsm has united all of us 451 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:31,679 exactly. Really, I'm Minneapolis right now. I'm in a fifty two story 452 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:37,039 skyscraper that's probably got about twelve people in it. Don't tell Minneapolis is coming 453 00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:42,119 back slowly. New York is in bad shape. As we're learning, all 454 00:37:42,119 --> 00:37:44,800 of the real estate values of some of the Class A stuff is just is 455 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,519 cratering. There's excess capacity. They're starting to refinance everything. And though so 456 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,480 commercial property in New York is finding its floor and that may be good and 457 00:37:52,559 --> 00:37:55,159 burn out some of the excess and the rest of it. People are talking 458 00:37:55,199 --> 00:37:59,960 about, we've got to convert these empty office buildings as Class B stuff from 459 00:38:00,159 --> 00:38:04,480 sixties into housing. But there's all these green regulations that say they have to 460 00:38:04,519 --> 00:38:07,320 do this and that and this and that, which makes it incredibly expensive to 461 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,679 do so. Commercial real estate in downtowns in general, if you're on Florida 462 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:16,480 is in trouble, and this affects the finances of cities a lot. So 463 00:38:16,679 --> 00:38:20,480 we're going to see a shakeout of this, aren't we? What is the 464 00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:25,159 ripple effect through the economy nationwide, in particular of what's happened to commercial real 465 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,119 estate because everybody went home and nobody wanted to come back. Yeah, well, 466 00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:32,639 I agree with you, by the way, I think your analysis is 467 00:38:32,679 --> 00:38:40,480 about on and commercial real estate is going to go through its first correction in 468 00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:46,559 about twenty years. Now. Is it going to decimate the economy? I 469 00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:53,960 don't know. I think some of these some of these regional banks are going 470 00:38:54,039 --> 00:38:57,679 to get it hurt. We haven't heard, we haven't heard the last of 471 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:05,679 that problem. The people that run these reats and you know, commercial building 472 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,400 funds and so forth, are going to get hurt. Investors are going to 473 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:15,360 get hurt. But don't forget that. You know, land has value and 474 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,559 the buildings have value. So you're going to get a shakeout. Managements will 475 00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:23,920 be thrown out, new managements will come in. Rents and prices will be 476 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:29,320 adjusted. You know, it will be a classic form of a capitalist kind 477 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,039 of correction. And will it hurt the economy? Yeah, it will in 478 00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:37,519 the short run. Is it going to be catastrophic, No, I think 479 00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:43,119 that will lead however, in the next year or two to a you know, 480 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,320 the government, the lefties are going to try to have a big bailout 481 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:51,920 for this type stuff, and the Conservatives will oppose it, and the public 482 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,280 I think will also oppose it. The public sick of bailouts. But yeah, 483 00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:00,639 I agree, there's a commercial real estate coming shakeout coming, not residential 484 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:07,079 so much. Residential has heard badly by high mortgage rates, but it'll be 485 00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:09,920 more commercial mortgage rates. Jack and I took a little steam out of the 486 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:15,000 out of the bubble. But before when we had real estate corrections, I 487 00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:17,760 mean, I remember the time when oh my gosh, the Japanese are buying 488 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,840 everything, like they were going to buy the Empire State Building and disassemble it 489 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,400 and move it to Tokyo. No, they bought a bunch of stuff here. 490 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:29,239 Prices went up, and then eventually things happened and the market went down, 491 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,480 but there still was a demand for office space. It seems like a 492 00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:38,079 fundamental shift that has happened where the existence of an office building is no longer 493 00:40:38,159 --> 00:40:42,480 the guarantee that it used to be It used to be, Yeah, we're 494 00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:45,000 gonna put up a big seventy story skyscraper on Park Avenue for JP Morgan, 495 00:40:45,039 --> 00:40:47,679 whoever, and people will come to work there in their suits, in their 496 00:40:47,679 --> 00:40:52,360 ties, and they will be productive. But you don't have that paradigm anymore, 497 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,719 and that has to have a make this a different correction than it was 498 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,960 before, or are all corrections basically the same? Actions are basically the same. 499 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:12,280 I would say, you know, inside your view and I agree with 500 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:19,400 your view, there are cultural issues that are troublesome to me. I mean, 501 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,280 look, a lot of these kids don't want to work. They don't 502 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:30,000 want to go to work, and they don't want to work, and that's 503 00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:35,960 not good. Now. I think that will change as they mature, and 504 00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:43,840 there's now a counter revolution about you know people. I mean, I'm non 505 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,920 stop. I wanted work requirements in this house. Bill I started talking about 506 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,679 it right after the election. I've never stopped. Guys like Bill Bennett have 507 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,800 them on the show all the time. You know, we talk about the 508 00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,400 dignity of work, the scientific work, work is because godly. But the 509 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,880 trouble is the left taste for religion. They don't even think in those terms. 510 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:10,719 So that is a cultural issue that is a very important sidebar to your 511 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:19,559 economic point. Rob I just want to tell you Larry said that my analysis 512 00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:25,000 on growth was correct, and then James Lilacs gave a real estate analysis and 513 00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:34,079 Larry Cudlow said correct, Robinson correct, Lilacs correct, long just by definition 514 00:42:34,079 --> 00:42:38,760 correct. But I have a cultural question, right because I feel like sometimes 515 00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:46,440 a lifetime you've spent in finance and economics and business, there's something you know 516 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:52,519 that maybe we need to hear. And I know you're an optimist, so 517 00:42:52,559 --> 00:42:55,519 I I hope I know what your answer is going to be. But I 518 00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:58,840 let me tell you what a friend of mine told me. Grew up in 519 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,400 Detroit in the fifties and sixties, and when you're growing up in the Detroit 520 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:07,480 area fifties and sixties, there were not that many toy stores because everybody had 521 00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:13,199 tools in their basement, and when your kid wanted a train set, it 522 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,920 was considered kind of uncool to go and buy a train set. You could 523 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,119 make a train set. You have a better train set. So you go 524 00:43:19,159 --> 00:43:22,440 to even now you go to garage sales in Detroit area and they are these 525 00:43:22,519 --> 00:43:25,679 train sets that are very specific gauges you could never buy trains for because they 526 00:43:25,679 --> 00:43:29,840 were made in someone's basement. And his point is, he said, America 527 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:37,599 is never really gonna come back roaring until we have a bunch of dads and 528 00:43:37,639 --> 00:43:42,480 a bunch of moms too, a bunch of Americans who just want to go 529 00:43:42,559 --> 00:43:45,000 down to the basement and they know they can make their own trainset. Do 530 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,679 you know what I'm saying, I guess what I'm I guess. This is 531 00:43:47,679 --> 00:43:54,639 a long winded way of saying are we going to be okay? It's funny. 532 00:43:54,719 --> 00:44:02,280 So I'm seventy five years old and very grateful to be kicking look pretty 533 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,840 good by the way. Seventy five man, I'm looking forward to that. 534 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:14,360 But I remember my train set in the basement of our house in Englewood, 535 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:20,519 New Jersey, where I grew up, and I remember not only setting it 536 00:44:20,599 --> 00:44:25,960 up with my dad, with my mom watching periodically, but actually working it. 537 00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:30,880 And we had a beauty, we had a beauty downstairs, and I 538 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:37,119 remember that. It's a wonderful thought, a very comforting thought. So, 539 00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:42,840 you know, it's a complicated subject. Are we going to be okay? 540 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,079 I believe we will be okay because we are a democracy, and we are 541 00:44:47,199 --> 00:44:53,159 free country, and we are grounded and what I would call traditional conservative values, 542 00:44:54,840 --> 00:45:04,000 and we have been assaulted by the left in recent years. It's really 543 00:45:04,119 --> 00:45:08,679 not just these five years, the Obama years, un least this, but 544 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:15,360 there'll be a counter revolution. I truly believe that people are putting their put 545 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:24,239 down. Enough is enough. And you know you need families. You look, 546 00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:31,719 you need traditional families. Okay, you need two parents to be with 547 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:37,320 their kids and teach them and to take them to church or temple, and 548 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:44,360 you need that. I'm sorry, I believe this in my soul. Last 549 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:51,199 fall I was honored, I mean truly honored, one of the greatest honors 550 00:45:51,199 --> 00:45:55,400 of my life. They gave me National Review gave me the William F. 551 00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:02,519 Buckley Prize, and there were four or five hundred people in the Reagan Aircraft 552 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:09,840 thing in the library, and I got up and I spoke about a lot 553 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:15,719 of things. Bill Buckley was a very dear Bill and Pat Buckley were very 554 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:21,960 dear friends of ours. And some of my worst days professionally occurred when I 555 00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:28,400 was on the staff, and then I recovered and we were dear friends afterwards. 556 00:46:28,639 --> 00:46:30,920 Actually Bill loved my wife, Judy. He liked me, but he 557 00:46:31,039 --> 00:46:38,679 loved Judy. But where I'm gone with this is I spent a fair amount 558 00:46:38,679 --> 00:46:49,320 of time talking about Bill's belief that you must have a religious foundation in society, 559 00:46:51,679 --> 00:46:59,599 and my pal Catherine Lopez wrote a lovely piece after that event, which 560 00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:05,880 was called God and Man at the Reagan Library, and she captured absolutely. 561 00:47:06,519 --> 00:47:10,239 I mean, she's a brilliant woman and she captured exactly what I was aiming 562 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:19,239 at. So how long how too? I don't know, Rob, But 563 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:24,519 I know I know it works. I know it works, and I know 564 00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:29,199 there are a lot of people in this country that know it works. And 565 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,119 I know we're in a slump right now, and I know we're in a 566 00:47:32,159 --> 00:47:37,920 bit of a decline. But in my lifetime, which has banned declines and 567 00:47:38,039 --> 00:47:44,599 recoveries, I've seen how we can and will recover. And that's why I'm 568 00:47:44,599 --> 00:47:50,199 an optimist. And you know I do go to church on Sunday, and 569 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,639 that helps him. That note a tonic chord. In fact, we will 570 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:59,159 end Peter and myself are correct, Rob. We'll just believe him for the 571 00:47:59,159 --> 00:48:01,719 next one, and we look forward to hearing from you and whatever position you 572 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,320 happened to take in the dissentis administration. Larry, thanks for joining us today. 573 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,079 Thanks a lot of calls, Hope. I appreciate thanks, Larry. 574 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:15,239 There's only one thing I want to know, Rob, who in Detroit was 575 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,920 going down in the basement and hand wiring the armatures of their electric transformers to 576 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,679 run the things, and hand forging the little cars and the clipping things. 577 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,599 And I mean, I can see people putting their own train sets together, 578 00:48:24,639 --> 00:48:31,199 but making from scratch from trains. These were machinists in the great American car 579 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,880 industry. They were working, and you know, they were incredibly skilled workers, 580 00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,679 and they had all the tools at home. Probably had some tools they 581 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:42,519 took home that they might not have an authorized to take home, but they 582 00:48:42,519 --> 00:48:46,000 had them. You would have to have equipment that was capable of nanosurgery sometimes 583 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,679 to get some of these little small things. I mean, are you saying 584 00:48:49,679 --> 00:48:52,880 that it was dissolute for the other kids to just get a Lionel set and 585 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,800 put it together? That I think that there was from what I understand that 586 00:48:59,119 --> 00:49:05,800 if you were working in the car backed artifactories and for Chryso GM all over 587 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,320 Detroit area, that you considered a point of pride to make those toys and 588 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,800 you could, and you had the tools and the equipment, and you had 589 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,000 the skill, and you had the technology, you had the working assembly line 590 00:49:17,039 --> 00:49:22,440 at Kaiser, and you're putting in this bolt or you're fastening this part and 591 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,199 putting into there. That is not a skill that translates to building from scratch 592 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:30,800 an electrical transform, an electrical motor, and what's more to hand to make 593 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,880 your own tracks with their own gauge and the rest of it. I'm not 594 00:49:35,039 --> 00:49:42,280 saying this didn't happen, but the idea of homebrew electric trainsets is something that 595 00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,199 I've never encountered before. And Ricochet podcast ladies tell them the only place you 596 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:52,599 can get a debate on train sets in Detroit in the nineteen fifties, exactly 597 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,480 Ricochet meet up in Detroit. Maybe somebody could get up on this one rob 598 00:49:57,519 --> 00:50:00,119 and speak in a which which talk about meetups. There are a bunch of 599 00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:05,280 schedule meetups. There's one in mid July and Winston Salem. There's the annual 600 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,800 German Fest meetup in Milwaukee, it's happening the last weekend of July. And 601 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:12,599 Labor Day weekend meetup in Cookeville, Tennessee. There's a bunch of meetups. 602 00:50:12,639 --> 00:50:15,800 There are kind of tentative ones in Columbus, Ohio late June. The other 603 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,079 is in mid July in Portland, Oregon, which I think would be kind 604 00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:22,960 of that that actually counts as an expedition. And then Mammoth Ka Nashville Park 605 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:28,480 in Kentucky in August. That's got some takers. Look, we like to 606 00:50:28,519 --> 00:50:32,599 meet online, we'd like to meet at the Ricochet dot com. We'd like 607 00:50:32,679 --> 00:50:35,840 to meet when we do these podcasts. You know you can if you're a 608 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,800 remember, you can join us while we're doing them live. But we almost 609 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,480 like to meet in real life. So if you want to join, please 610 00:50:42,519 --> 00:50:45,000 do. Please join ricochet dot com dot com and join us in one of 611 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,119 the meetups. And if one of these doesn't work for you for whatever reason, 612 00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,079 just put up a post and say how about this one here at this 613 00:50:52,159 --> 00:50:55,159 time, and Ricochet members will show up, because that's what Ricochet members do. 614 00:50:55,199 --> 00:51:00,719 They do. Ricoche members show up. Ricochet members go to the site 615 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,440 and post in the member feed, where you know, we have these little 616 00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:07,559 private conversations amongst ourselves that are great. Ricoche members know that when Rob is 617 00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:09,559 talking about the meetups, that that must mean that the show is coming to 618 00:51:09,599 --> 00:51:14,440 a conclusion, and they also know that that means the inevitable plea for a 619 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,119 five star review on Apple for all the reasons that we've given in six hundred 620 00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:22,239 and forty four podcasts. And if you're not a Ricoche member and you are 621 00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,440 still hanging on every little syllable and phoneame we are uttering here, we advise 622 00:51:24,519 --> 00:51:29,599 you strongly as possible to go to the site, check it out, sign 623 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:34,199 up, spend a shekel or two and see exactly why we call at the 624 00:51:34,199 --> 00:51:37,119 place on the internet you've been looking for all your life. It's not Facebook, 625 00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:42,719 it's not Twitter. It's a community of sayings, center right civil conversation. 626 00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:45,239 And in addition to all those other sibilants, we're going to use the 627 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,280 S word short because Peter Robinson has to scamper rob Is to get out before 628 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,559 the workers start their almost over. But before I know we have to go, 629 00:51:53,639 --> 00:51:55,960 Yes, before we go, I just want to I know I don't 630 00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,480 think we fully. I mean, I am still always actually in awe of 631 00:52:00,559 --> 00:52:06,679 Larry Cutler's great I could listen to him all day and I just did what 632 00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:07,960 I know he'll listening. I want to thank him for joining us. But 633 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,800 also I hope everybody loves him as much as I do, because I think 634 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:15,159 he's a great, great, great American. It's it's fun to hear and 635 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:24,000 again he knows things, having seen things. And also and for somebody to 636 00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:29,159 have known things and seeing things and remain optimistic as an American spirit that we 637 00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:31,519 love and cherish and encourage at Ricochet. I mean, that's one of the 638 00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:36,039 things about the political argument today. We're gone, we're dead, best days 639 00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:38,079 behind his best to just give up on it all and go. You know, 640 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,800 we all feel that some days, as I want is the point? 641 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,039 What am I going to accomplish? And then you listen to Larry and you 642 00:52:45,119 --> 00:52:46,840 think, no, we can accomplish a lot. We will accomplish a lot, 643 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,199 and we have to do it together. And by together, I mean 644 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,800 all of us listening to this. Members are not, but you should be 645 00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,119 a member. Peter rob it's been fun. We'll see everybody in the comments 646 00:52:55,119 --> 00:53:07,320 at Ricochet four point oh next week, boys, mhm, hey join the conversation.