WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:04.440 Hey, this is Christoph hacking your leadership on this discussion on employee engagement. 2 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:06.839 I want to talk about it a little bit of a follow up on the 3 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:10.599 engagement discussion we had two weeks ago. We talked about feedback and how and 4 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:17.039 how giving feedback is a very important part of making sure employees feel engaged and 5 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:21.839 remain engaged in their work. We had some listener feedback on that episode and 6 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:27.320 on the importance of receiving feedback as a leader in terms of employee engagement and 7 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:31.879 how we had some listeners reach out and say that they that their leader is 8 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:36.159 actually very good at giving feedback, and they do it well and it's received 9 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:40.840 well by them, and things are great from that standpoint. But the leader 10 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:46.479 isn't necessarily great at receiving feedback, not in that they don't want people to 11 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:48.719 give it to them or that people are scared to give it to them, 12 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.280 but that they talk about it from a standpoint of, oh, that's fantastic, 13 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:54.520 you know, thank you for the feedback. I love that, and 14 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:58.280 they're very easy to give feedback to. But then nothing ever changes. And 15 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.439 I thought that's a very interesting one because I have known leaders that do that 16 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:07.040 and it can be a tougher nut to crack a little bit, because when 17 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:11.439 a leader is just not good at receiving feedback at all, at least you 18 00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:15.519 can call it out for what it is. Right. If a leader seems 19 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:19.000 like they're great at receiving feedback, but then it just seems like it's falling 20 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:22.040 on deaf ears, that can be a problem. And so when it comes 21 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:25.799 to making sure that your employees are engaged, if you, as a leader 22 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:30.280 are receiving feedback from them and you're not making changes, that's a problem. 23 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.760 It's important because feedback is bi directional. It always needs to be not every 24 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:40.599 single session of feedback, but in a relationship, feedback is bi directional because 25 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:44.079 the relationship has to have some reciprocity to it. There has to be kind 26 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:49.040 of like this symbiosis that occurs between a leader and an employee, and that 27 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.000 will not happen if feedback isn't bi directional. I love the feedback we got 28 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.319 from listeners saying that, and I think it's a really great call out. 29 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.359 Yeah, absolutely is imperative if you're trying to build trust with the team and 30 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:04.359 build a culture where you know, we talk a lot about psychological safety and 31 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.520 the ability to have feedback and dialogue and debate and conversation. You have to 32 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:12.719 have a space where people know that when they do share their thoughts and their 33 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:15.319 opinions and or their feedback, that there is you know, number one is 34 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:22.039 welcome. Number two, it's appreciated, even if it's not agreed upon, 35 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:24.560 but it's appreciated. And then number three that there are actions that will be 36 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:29.960 taken as a result of it when they can be. And again I say 37 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:34.039 when they can be, because not all feedback can be addressed. You're going 38 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:38.159 to have those situations where somebody is giving feedback on something that really only just 39 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.960 pertains to them or a need that they need or that they have or that 40 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:46.360 they want, and that can be really difficult if that it's a change to 41 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:50.280 a system or a process or something that's happening where a lot of people are 42 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.280 impacted by that and it may not be you know, something that can be 43 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:57.400 kind of done for everyone or in that environment, like we have to be 44 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.000 real sometimes and some of the things that we ask for, but I think 45 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:02.879 from a leadership standpoint, the most important part of that is, like do 46 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:07.400 you do you create the space that allows for that dialogue to happen, because 47 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:13.520 I think sometimes when it comes to feedback or adjustment, we tend to either 48 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:16.879 bucket it into like here's what that leader needs to go do differently to make 49 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:22.680 you know, the employee feel you know, more heard, more empowered, 50 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:23.960 those types of things, and then sometimes the feedback is like I want to 51 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:28.879 change this thing and and like that thing will not be changed. And sometimes 52 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:30.680 we have to as a leader to say like the answer is no, and 53 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:36.159 here's the reason why it's no. But but that is okay, so long 54 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:39.960 as it's clear, and so long is that it's not like a beating around 55 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:44.439 the bush or or you know, trying to push kick kick to kick the 56 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:46.400 can down the road or whatever. But like you're addressing it in the moment. 57 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:51.599 But it is important again more that that you allow the space to have 58 00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:55.759 the conversations and that people feel comfortable coming to you to provide feedback, and 59 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:59.840 that you do something with it, even if the thing that you do with 60 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:01.120 it simply say like, well, no, that's not going to happen, 61 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:04.400 right right. I think I think there are three different types here, and 62 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:09.960 the easy ones are the are the very clear ones. It doesn't necessarily mean 63 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:13.919 leaders are good at it. I'm saying the what should be gimmes here are 64 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:18.040 the ones where you're giving feedback as a leader and you instantly agree with it. 65 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:21.000 Like what the person is saying, you're thinking to yourself, and this 66 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:25.560 is feedback on you as a person, you as a leader, your leadership 67 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:28.839 style, the way that you interact with people, the way that you that 68 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:32.079 you lead a team. Not feedback on you know what a what a company 69 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:34.959 policy is, or what you know something you have no control over. But 70 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:40.759 something about feedback directed directly at you as a leader. If you hear it 71 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:43.839 and you agree with it, that should be a gimme. And as long 72 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:46.480 as you can check your ego at the door and say that, then making 73 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:50.000 those changes, but asking for grace along the way. If it's something you've 74 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:54.360 been doing one way for a long time and someone's giving you feedback that needs 75 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:58.199 to change, being able to say, you know what, I agree with 76 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:01.920 you. This is going to happen overnight. So I would like to ask 77 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:06.000 for your partnership in you know, pulling me aside. If you see it 78 00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:09.600 happen, know that I'm going to make an effort to do this as best 79 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:12.759 I can. But I want your help, So please, if you see 80 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:15.600 it out of me again, don't think that I thought you were wrong, 81 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:17.279 or that I don't think it needs to change. Know that I wanted to 82 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:20.519 change and I would love your help in making that happen. And you will 83 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:25.199 see steps, you will see change, but it's not going to be overnight. 84 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:27.839 Necessarily. If I've been doing it one way for a certain length of 85 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.000 time, ask for that grace and you will likely get it and you will 86 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:32.519 build a relationship with a person. But again that's one of the gimmis. 87 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:36.240 Another one of the gimmis is when you know something can't change. Right. 88 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.439 If a person is saying, you know, I don't want to have a 89 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:42.399 schedule. I want to be able to show up to work when I want 90 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:44.720 to show up to work, well, clearly that's not gonna that's not going 91 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:48.199 to happen, and that should be also a gimme. Where this becomes difficult 92 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:54.399 for leaders, I think is when you don't know what the answer is and 93 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:58.399 you want to validate a person for giving the feedback. And again this is 94 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:01.920 this is from listener responses said, Hey, my leader is great at receiving 95 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:06.600 feedback. It's just nothing changes I've been in situations personally where I've received feedback 96 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:11.600 and I didn't know how to take it, meaning I didn't know whether that 97 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:14.199 person was right or wrong. Clearly it was their perception, so it was 98 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:16.399 right to them, and I wanted to process it. I wanted to think 99 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:20.839 about that, and then it just kind of goes by the wayside because I 100 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:25.720 didn't really have a clear bucket to put it in either Oh, I agree, 101 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:29.160 we need to change this, or this is not possible. It's the 102 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:32.920 let's think this through and what this feedback means. If it falls into this 103 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.920 category, you need to think it through and see what it means, and 104 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:39.959 if it means, following up with the person and asking more questions about it, 105 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:42.160 telling them, hey, you know what, I've been thinking a lot 106 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:46.680 about our last conversation. I'd like to know more because I'm having any difficulty 107 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:49.279 with it from this perspective or that perspective. You know, I've never received 108 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:54.079 this feedback before. You're the first person, but I believe you, So 109 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:57.560 let's talk more about this. This is the follow up or action that needs 110 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:00.000 to happen. It's not necessarily that they give you feedback and you need to 111 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:04.279 change it. If you disagree with the feedback, then don't change it without 112 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:09.639 talking to them first. Talk it through with them. That's where the failure 113 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:13.600 of leadership that I think happens is you end up disagreeing with the feedback, 114 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:15.839 not in the moment, but later on and you let it go by the 115 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:18.720 wayside. I want to talk about some advice for leaders here on what they 116 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:21.279 can do in these situations, but first I want to give word for one 117 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:26.439 oversponsors. All Right, if you're a leader and you're receiving feedback from people 118 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:30.680 and you it's not a clear cut style of feedback where you inherently one hundred 119 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:34.839 percent agree or disagree that it can be done at all, but it's something 120 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:40.240 you have to think about. There's no such thing as receiving feedback like that 121 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:43.720 that is a one and done. It will require follow up conversations, and 122 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:46.040 if you're the one receiving the feedback, you need to be the one to 123 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.759 follow up with the conversation. And this works the opposite way too. If 124 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:54.839 your leader is giving you feedback that you have to think about and then you 125 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:57.920 inherently disagree with, you need to follow up with them too and ask them 126 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:00.759 to go into more detail about why that is. Did they just hear it 127 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:03.199 from somebody or are they seeing it same thing. If you're getting feedback from 128 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:07.639 somebody and they just are regurgitating it from somebody else, or it's based on 129 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.560 their personal experience, talk that out with somebody, because the worst thing you 130 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:15.279 can do is just ignore it, because you will give the impression that you 131 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:20.639 that you don't follow up or take action on feedback because their perception about what 132 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:22.920 needs to change isn't going to change. They still think it needs to change 133 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:26.079 out of you, and you can't ignore it. It has to be addressed. 134 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:31.240 You have to come to an agreement about what needs to change and whether 135 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:35.000 or not there needs to be changed. Otherwise you will you will develop, 136 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:39.120 you know, a brand of a person who is you know, seems like 137 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.559 they're great at taking feedback, but then nothing ever changes. Yeah. Absolutely 138 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:45.440 no, I think it's that and that's a bad place to be in honestly, 139 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.360 as a leader. Is like when people feel that you're just kind of 140 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:52.480 like, you know, hearing them and just kind of like placating them and 141 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:56.200 you're not being authentic and you're just you know, listening for the sake of 142 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:58.000 listening. Like people can read through some of that fakeness, and then what 143 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:01.279 ends up happening over time is they just stop doing it. Then you don't 144 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:03.759 get any feedback. Then you don't have any trust with the team, and 145 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:07.600 they don't believe that you're going to do anything that you are going to say 146 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:11.440 that you're gonna go do and that that is one of the fastest ways to 147 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:15.159 burn trust in a relationship and with the team. Right. Right. I've 148 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:18.480 often said, and I absolutely believe that the opposite of love isn't hate, 149 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:22.120 it's apathy. So if you're if you're getting feedback from somebody in a positive 150 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:24.720 way and you think, oh, okay, this is a great relationship, 151 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:30.519 and then all of a sudden that feedback turns to negative like meaning the yelling 152 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.120 and the screaming like you never do this, you never do this. That 153 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.120 isn't a sign of a lack of love or care. It's a sign that 154 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:41.480 they want this feedback to be actionable. They want you to change, and 155 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:45.320 they're frustrated that's not changing. Where you really have a problem is when it 156 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:48.879 just stops all together. If you're if you are not receiving feedback from your 157 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:52.320 people, uh, it means that they don't believe you have the ability to 158 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:54.200 change it. And believe me, there's no such thing as a leader who 159 00:09:54.279 --> 00:10:01.480 doesn't need some feedback. There will always be a feedback need did on something, 160 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:03.440 and so you know, think about it from a leadership perspective. If 161 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:07.080 it's been a wall since you've received feedback on something, it doesn't mean that 162 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:11.320 nothing needs to change. It means that people are not necessarily comfortable giving you 163 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:13.919 feedback or they think it's not going to be actionable, and so you might 164 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.480 need to kind of start that ball rolling by reaching out to them directly and 165 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:20.159 asking for it. I appreciate you all listening again to this discussion on employe 166 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:24.960 engagement. Join us again next Thursday for another one. Have a great day.