WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.840 --> 00:00:06.839 All right, welcome everyone. This is an X Space with Kalu. We're 2 00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:11.759 here every weekend and of course we're talking money, finance, and of course 3 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:15.039 the economy, but on a personal level, we'll try to make it personal 4 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.000 to you how the topics of the day affect your personal wallet. Today we're 5 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:21.879 going to talk about the African tech space. Right, I've got a great 6 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:26.199 guest with us today, Zumbaka. I'm gonna let him introduce himself, but 7 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:30.160 the song I do follow and I get my tech news from what's happening in 8 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:34.719 Africa, what's happening in the Nigerian and tech space. They're funding the issues, 9 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:38.079 what the folks are doing there. I like that space because it's a 10 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:43.240 new space, and it's a space where entrepreneurs, young entrepreneurs are actually make 11 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:47.920 a lot of wealth for themselves, are building institutions imen on that space. 12 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:50.759 So I will just get him to coming, even if we're just gonna talk 13 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:54.840 around the stories that he writes, just give us an insight in there and 14 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:58.320 then we'll take it from there. Again, apologies for the thirty minute delay, 15 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:00.520 but I'm glad you guys are all in me here and I do uperate 16 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:03.439 you so Abaka got the flow. If you can come up with it and 17 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.040 just yourself, I'll show her about like you know your gods. Yeah, 18 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:11.079 thank you so much for the space. Thank you so much for having me 19 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:15.079 as a guest. Hi, everybody, my name is Abubaka Letters and I 20 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:19.239 make that natural reporter. I covered the African market and right now covered the 21 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:25.760 US market. I have been reporting on the tech industry since tun eating by 22 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:29.280 General next year the entry my sevent year I covered the industry, which is 23 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:36.000 just like a long time and I've done everything from writing about new products that 24 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:40.680 just got off the they just got into go into production, all the way 25 00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:45.159 down to the big tech companies and even the big telecom companies as they also 26 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:51.680 make their own expansion into different aspects of technology services, whether it's financial services 27 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:56.480 or with digital solutions broadly. Uh and yeah, I've had the pleasure of 28 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:00.400 interviewing and talking to founders at the point where they were say, I get 29 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:06.920 a leastages off onto when they've become a bhumans themselves. And I'm talking about 30 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:12.199 companies like will pay and like float Away so much sets like they start too 31 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:16.879 about their businesses and what challenges they faced, how they've grown it and how 32 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:23.439 they're able to maintain value for the customers here on the African continent. And 33 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:25.199 so yeah, that's a little bit about me. Great great, great, 34 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:29.800 yeah again thanks for doing this as well. Let me just jump right into 35 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:34.599 it, right always I always hear that Nigeria is the number one in terms 36 00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:40.479 of attracting Is it FBI or investment funds in the tech space in Africa? 37 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:45.199 Is that still the issue? Is my dressed number one? If we're not 38 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:49.479 always taking are from us? Yeah, so the jurist the number one. 39 00:02:50.360 --> 00:02:55.199 Nigres the number one market for finner investment when it comes to fully portfolio investment 40 00:02:55.240 --> 00:03:01.120 when it comes to the tech industry on the continent. And the reasons for 41 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:06.240 that is it's obvious. I mean, when you look at the population statistics, 42 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:09.879 you notice that n is not just the most popular country on the continent, 43 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:14.960 it also has one of the youngest populations and that at presents a ship 44 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:20.039 of opportunities for any business, any company, any investment firm that wants to 45 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:23.439 do business on the African continent. So they are really excited about what the 46 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:30.120 niger market can produce for them in terms of returnal investment and in terms of 47 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:34.719 impact. And then also you notice there's a lot of opportunities in terms of 48 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:38.719 the challenges in the country. And so you know, you look at two 49 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:43.639 hundred million people who are struggling to make payments, two hundred million people who 50 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:47.319 are struggling to you know, ship an item from legal stabuta, twentundred million 51 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:52.120 people who are struggling to find a decent way to save money. And they 52 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:54.840 say at the same time, two undred million people who are looking for right 53 00:03:54.960 --> 00:04:00.560 access to educational materia that can move them not just in time in terms of 54 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:05.599 learning new things, but also improve the ability to change jobs and to acquire 55 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:10.719 new skills that helps them to earn more money across industries. And so all 56 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:15.599 of these things are things that are interesting for investors, interesting to founders. 57 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:19.879 They all pay attention to the strengths and they want to invest here in Nigeria. 58 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:24.040 But at the same time, there's a couple of other countries that are 59 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:28.680 fast growing having the same level of opportunities that Nigeria has. And so you 60 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:32.360 look at Kenya, you look at Egypt in particular, and then you look 61 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:36.480 at South Africa. Disprey oder countries are also doing really well. They're attracting 62 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:42.920 hundreds of millions of dollars in terms of foreign investments and tech investments. Brought 63 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:46.439 it because you know, the investment capital is comment from not just foreign investors 64 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:51.360 but also local capital in these countries. And so yeah, pretty much Nigeria 65 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:56.439 is still the most desirable place for people to want to do business. But 66 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:01.279 it's also you know, the level of funding is always is always changing in 67 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:05.720 the last couple of months, in particular because of the high level blow ups 68 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:12.079 and the macroeconomic challenges in Nigeria. Also in this sort of places super particularly 69 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:16.879 Nigeria, because it has hit us significantly and there is no just nobody's you 70 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:20.079 know, nobody knows how bad it's going to get over the next couple of 71 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:23.720 months. At this point, gotcha, I want to hear you saying the 72 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:28.759 population of demographics, why the white in sprit that to say, hey, 73 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.720 the growth in Nigeria is strong, but it's not really been because of the 74 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:36.000 government, but because the you know, the attributes of Nigeria. I mean, 75 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:41.639 my question is this has the governmental enough to drive this growth or has 76 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:46.839 this group been organic because it simply had to happen, right, I think 77 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.839 that's a that's a really interesting question. I would start off by saying, 78 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:55.680 one of the things that investors, potical foreign investors pay attention to what they 79 00:05:55.680 --> 00:06:00.920 want to invest in any market approach is the political stability in those free chouncing 80 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:03.439 that market in that country, and so they are very very careful to make 81 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:08.360 sure that the market you're invested in is not volatile, and so they're able 82 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:12.439 to have decent confidence in terms of, you know, the safety of their 83 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:16.279 investment and your portfolio in those countries that are invest in. And so when 84 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:20.079 you take it from that standpoint and you look at what that's happened in the 85 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:26.160 Nigeria democratic space in the last decade, it's been interesting to an extent. 86 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:30.079 You know, when you look at the early twenty tens, to an extent, 87 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:33.480 the government did doing lots to a share in the current due to age 88 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:38.480 that we're seeing. So you see the likes of Unpala Johnson, who was 89 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:44.000 Minister of these economy ict including telecom services, and she did a lot of 90 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:47.079 work to improve the level of broadband in the country way back in twenty ten, 91 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:50.639 twenty eleven, twenty four until she left to twenty fifteen, and so 92 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:56.560 that kind of set the trend for what we seem to be in terms of 93 00:06:56.560 --> 00:07:00.759 the boost to the industry. But you know that is not the only thing 94 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:04.639 that you know, startups paying attention to. It is a good trend. 95 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:10.720 Increasing access to telephony and broadband is you know, the starting point for any 96 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:14.800 innovation in the market, like like like tech. But on the other hand, 97 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:17.160 you know, people have been doing other things outside of what the government 98 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:20.639 has been able to do for them. They were finding new ways to play 99 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:26.680 in the market, like see financial services logistics, despite what the government has 100 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:30.439 put in front of them as various challenges. You know, for example, 101 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.360 you look at what happened to the buiki and companies in legals. It was 102 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:39.160 in regulatory disaster from legos that shut down that industry. And then you have 103 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:44.879 you know, several businesses that are also very careful about how they innovate and 104 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:48.120 how they interacted the government at their regulators in that space. And so overall, 105 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:55.519 I would say the government did set the tone for innovation that would happen 106 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:00.639 a decade ago, but eventually it became a kind of a dynamic process in 107 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:05.240 the sense that in some industries there was some regulatory of government support. In 108 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:09.439 other industries in able had to figure things out by themselves, and they've been 109 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.079 able to you know, show the value that's possible despite you know, without 110 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:18.759 government assistance and holistically and so yeah, that's what I would say in terms 111 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:24.199 of government support for the industries or for tech. Okay, great, And 112 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:26.439 there is a question I always wanted someone to answer for me. Right when 113 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:31.120 we hear that Nigeria is getting or someone that has scaled. We hear a 114 00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:37.480 fintechnerger has scaled and they got about so million as startup capital and all that 115 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.240 could just explain to me and listeners where does that money stay? A company 116 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:46.039 scale, the company gets money, where is that cash? I get it, 117 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.279 But I wanted you to understand because we always hear we are scaling, 118 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:56.200 but we're looking for dollars. So is the money in zenisbank or an SBL 119 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:01.399 bank? Work us through it? Okay? So some of the things bloaded 120 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:03.960 that question. On the one hand, when you when you talk about where 121 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:09.480 the company is, where you know where the money is depositive. You know, 122 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:13.600 typically people would say where the money is domicild. You have a bunch 123 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.279 of things that would you know come to your mind. On the one hand, 124 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:20.240 he begins to wonder at this. You know, when when you want 125 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:22.159 to think about where to deposit money as an entity, as a company, 126 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:28.039 the first thing you have to think to yourself is, you know, where 127 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.799 is your corporate origin? What are you incorporated in that particular jurisdiction that you 128 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:37.440 want to deposit money in? And then second is is that case you want 129 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.960 to deposit money in a significant operating market for you. So the reason why 130 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:46.480 I have to distinguish this is, you know, when it's not it's no 131 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:52.159 secret like many startups that operate in Nigeria to be that we identify as African 132 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:58.919 startups in quote, they're not food incorporated abroad in popular you know, taxi 133 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:05.440 and favorable jurisdictions like the state of Delaware in the US and other places in 134 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:09.000 the world like Mauritius for example, even the UK. And so they set 135 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.080 up subsidiaries to operate here in Nigeria. And so when they think about where 136 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:18.519 you when you ask them the question of where is the investment fund the investment 137 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.039 you know, found that they've reached where they don't sell it. The first 138 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.919 thing that they would figure out is do they want to put all of that 139 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:28.799 money in Nigeria or do they want to split it into the operating markets where 140 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:31.679 they operate, and so you know that that's the that's the starting point. 141 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.960 Yes, But for many companies that operate in Nigeria and have their amory market 142 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:39.919 in Nigeria, the bulk of that money is going to float, you know, 143 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:45.759 from their corporate holdings offshore and they might move the signa contraun of it 144 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:48.639 down to the Nigeria market, or they might even move the entire thing to 145 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:52.360 Nigeria if it's comfortable for them. And so that is where the money would 146 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.559 stay. And then they would use the money in the bank to scale their 147 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.919 business. And what they typically need, what they say skill their business is 148 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.639 they would invest in people, you know, iron new team members, hire 149 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:09.200 talent, structure the operations or their business, hire people on the ground, 150 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:13.399 and then they give to spend money on marketing, whether it's hire influencers or 151 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:18.200 you know doing build board as all those things. And they would spend money 152 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.600 on growth typically too. And also they spend money a lot on product development, 153 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.720 like you know, building out the new apps that you know people would 154 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:31.320 eventually use, or their Android phones or their iPhones and the feedback that people 155 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:33.720 get or people will make when they use this apps and realize that, oh 156 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:39.120 this isn't working well. Listen is working well. They have to take all 157 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:43.120 of those you know inpe skin and make sure that the app is working in 158 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:46.519 real time. And so all of that takes money. All of that takes 159 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.240 planning. And so this is where they eventually or typically would spend the money 160 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:54.840 that they've gotten from investors. And the idea is you are able to build 161 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.320 a product optual level where it is stable, people can use it, and 162 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:01.799 you begin to spend you know, a part of your operational funds on mentioning 163 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:07.399 that product, whether it is own service, or pay developers to maintain those 164 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:13.320 servers, or pay developers to our people generally to maintain good customer supports and 165 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.960 other kind of resistance to the business as all. Okay, Yeah, so 166 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:20.159 the followup that's big, okay, and I'm trying to be cold here, 167 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:22.759 but that's just how to add it. So why do we celebrate it so 168 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:28.600 much if when we say in Nigerian or African startup has raised funds, Because 169 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:33.840 a casual reader would assume that if those funds were raised and it's in the 170 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:39.679 Nigerian or Kenyan paper, it means that the Kenyan or the Nigerian economy is 171 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:45.399 getting that fund. But the way I understand it is that that's not so. 172 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.639 It's really funds that are still going to stay in the US. And 173 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:50.200 then of course, if we want to buy a computer, we set it 174 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:56.559 over and all that. So then why do we celebrate it so much against 175 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:03.080 it's on c levels. The first is simply the fact that it's generally had 176 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.519 to raise money. As an entrepreneur, it's really hard to convince somebody that 177 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.440 you have an idea or you have a product, or you have something and 178 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:15.200 you want to service the market and you want money to be able to do 179 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:18.960 so effectively. And so when you take it from that standpoint, it's it's 180 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.720 something to you know, celebrate generally that somebody is able to raise one hundred 181 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:28.039 thousand dollars, ten million dollars, one hundred million dollars, two hundred million 182 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.799 dollars to scale up a business in any sense, in any climate. That 183 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:35.679 is the thing you you know, people are really really excited about. It 184 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:41.039 tells you, first the level of optimism that investors have in the person who 185 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:46.120 is running that business. It tells you the optimism that the investors and the 186 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:50.879 people who involved in making edified and decisions have about the industry and the company 187 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:54.840 and the business that you know, these guys are trying to be the solution 188 00:13:56.039 --> 00:14:00.440 for. And so that's just generally all you know, good indicators broadly, 189 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.519 and so you know, that is generally something that would be exciting exciting to 190 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.960 anybody because you know, it really has to raised money and if you're able 191 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:13.519 to raise money from investors in something you would want to be personally proud of, 192 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.320 people would also want to congratulate you for pulling off. And then if 193 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.639 the economy is in you know, the craziest part, as it's been in 194 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:22.840 the last two years in particular, you know, it's all the more reason 195 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:26.120 why people want to applaud you because, yeah, you were able to raise 196 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:31.200 you know a lot of money or you know, some money despite the fact 197 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.200 that the global economic environment is not favorable to risk and solutions, which is 198 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:39.799 what startups are, and also the fact that it's you know, challenging. 199 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:43.759 And but then there's other aspects of of you know, the reason why people 200 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:50.279 celebrate when founders raise money, it's you're right to an accent in the sense 201 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:52.799 that you know, the funds that they might raise might be based or don't 202 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:56.639 start abroad, because that's where many of these companies are incorporated. But in 203 00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:03.879 reality, the bringing that money to a local market and they're looking to deploy 204 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.519 that those fonts in that market, whatever amount of money that they do deploy 205 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:13.440 constitute DP activity. And so when you think about GDP activity as a whole, 206 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.879 you're looking at economic activities working. You're not looking at money that's in 207 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:24.240 the bank. You're not looking at money that's it's simply in an insurance's what's 208 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:30.919 called pattern in any of this industries that simply hold money, you're looking at 209 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:37.240 you you're basically it's basically activity, economic activity that's happening with the money going 210 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:41.919 around and generating value for the economy. So on a broader scale, I 211 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:45.600 would say when you when you consider the fact that a company that has realised 212 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.519 thirteen million, for example, might want to deploy ten million or fifteen million 213 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:54.000 over the next two years on hiring people locally in a country, on spending 214 00:15:54.039 --> 00:16:00.679 money on developers locally, on market and locally all of that constituency the activity 215 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:06.159 for a country, for an economy, for a satle so it's always positive 216 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.840 in that regards. Okay, I mean I'll take that clearly that that is 217 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:12.799 perhaps you have completely correct. I will take that as a win. Like 218 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:18.120 I said, I just wanted to for the benef of the audience listening. 219 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:22.080 This is not like money's going to come in today and change the amount the 220 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:25.799 exchanges of the dollar on the streets of legos. That's actually where I was 221 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:29.360 going to. Okay, I got a limited and totally asked the question. 222 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:30.879 I have a full up already full up with you, and then maybe let 223 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:34.120 me get a little hop in here for asking olimitate. You've got the floor 224 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:37.399 if you want to quickly ask the question or you have to go ahead. 225 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:45.639 I think that's a conversation. And you know, it's greatly the fact that 226 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:53.919 the best piece is very actively you have first the bigiates market in Africa. 227 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:59.840 There are three questions about But first of all, I think it's very interesting 228 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:04.960 in terms of valuation and why we have many issues in the past. You 229 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:11.279 know, it's open open there for us to look at the good ones, 230 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:18.079 the ones like Piggy Pada into Switch. We've seen the fact that if you 231 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:23.160 can have real it on great work and the industry and factor as author to 232 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:30.599 look at what inter switch how they need to bringing pot from thisa we so 233 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:37.279 hard strike the start for Tom and mothers, but at that there's still have 234 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:44.000 problems without les answer pack. So first the first place, why is it? 235 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:49.079 Why is it that we focus more on valuations rather than the substability of 236 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.640 people. But this is what I mean. If you look at the fact 237 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:59.720 that you know, businesses and not so suspendable. I don't want to tell 238 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:06.039 me, but you can some valuations you stay to under yeah, actually remember 239 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:10.359 because because of what I don't want to come in. But you find out 240 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:17.720 that biggers entity, the kind of fathers, the understanding about the subjects and 241 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:23.000 the way they two copcomers, the cash flow and the way you're reporting is 242 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:27.119 you know, you're our order the verbility of the business in our versity this 243 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:32.920 plan also it's also another quers. I also want to ask us that why 244 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:38.799 is it that we don't really look at the successful ones amplify them. We 245 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:45.720 sell great drugs valuations and rather most of them become up big or bad examples 246 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:52.519 for futuristic they are. Lastly, you know many of these products like being 247 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:56.279 in different names. I don't think I've liked more than since I've been writing 248 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:00.640 in the national space, have made more than Dinnergate companies that out there that 249 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.519 I was spoken to many of them, and I azed that what you what 250 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.240 you, what we hear is not what we we know what we move. 251 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.400 So the thing is there's this knowledge cap and there's the fact that they just 252 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.920 want to cash out. We've seen many appieces of fons and things like that. 253 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.680 Now customers have lost money. You know, look at this piece I 254 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:26.240 am for example, I have so many games of people putting the add inflans 255 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.400 in pre take films and these guys are still on Twitter, not arrested, 256 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:36.400 and this guy is still They still act like nothing is happening. So the 257 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:38.519 question is, you know, these are things that you cannot see the party 258 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:42.039 industry, no matter how complicated that your stem is. Why is it is 259 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:45.000 it that the media has been put is it that averybody has been applied? 260 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:52.039 Is it that the the well what is really happening? Because we need a 261 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.079 sheriff to sometimes. So these are questions I'd like you to talk and prefer 262 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:06.599 and thank you. Interesting but back, I mean interesting question. Yeah, 263 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.119 you want to thank you so much for this question I joined them down, 264 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:17.400 then I would take them after the other aleskand has something to say before I 265 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:21.799 start, No, go for it. I mean in my question was to 266 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:26.000 you, what's going to be about the I think you should answer this question 267 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:33.799 first, because I've got a lot of dollar dollar I think I think the 268 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:37.279 same question sort of I was going to ask when you answer this question, 269 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:41.160 I was going to go specifically to Dash. I was going to use Dash 270 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:47.240 as a plast talk about That's why we had the scaling on on our on 271 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:52.920 our topic header there right is the issue that you have very smart people that 272 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:57.240 understand how to code but can't balance the balance sheet or is it just that 273 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.519 man you know? See a while to go, So we'll be answering this 274 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:07.839 ons of my question. Do tech code to tech brus need to know how 275 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.279 to balance a balance sheet apart learn how to call? But you know, 276 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:19.519 you know what I'm uh calor my work asks the turkey. Well, I 277 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:22.799 don't work as the turkey. I work as a business anallyst now, but 278 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:30.559 I work with turkeys along you know, deaths or whatnot. When it comes 279 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:36.720 to fund then you've got to be able to convince somebody to part with your 280 00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:41.839 money, and if you are posting with their money, the world results for 281 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:48.559 it, you know, h be it in Nigeria, bit in Canada, 282 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:55.359 being and in America wherever it is. If people are giving you their money, 283 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.079 the world results for that point points me. Let me, let me 284 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:06.839 get back out to holp In and take only this long question and then perhaps 285 00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:12.119 you can tail into this idea of the capacity to scaling the going concern issues 286 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:18.920 we have about these very smart people. Go ahead and about thank you. 287 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.599 The The aswered question is, yeah, it's an interesting one, but let 288 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.440 me start with eliminate questions. So I have three questions that I've jotted down, 289 00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:30.039 so I'll take the first one first. So you talked about valuation. 290 00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:37.759 Why is there a lot of focus on valuation and non sustainability. I think 291 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:41.759 that is a very interesting question, and we as journalists to have tried to 292 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.759 answer this question, and we always ask the questions too many many times. 293 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:49.279 For example, when I jump on the cover the founder, when I jump 294 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.400 on the cover and investor and I'm asking them about the companies that you're you 295 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:56.039 know at a company that they founded or the business that they invested in, 296 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.880 respectfully, I always try to get of what's the valuation? Like, what 297 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.599 is the metric you used to judge the success of this business? Is this 298 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.640 business actually growing? Is it working as you know it says it should it 299 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.240 would? How is the business a model? Like? How do they make 300 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:17.000 money? These are bad bonds questions that I would ask anybody you know that 301 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.960 I'm writing a patron. I'm talking to UH, and sometimes I get very 302 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:23.759 good answers. Many times I do not, which is fine. I do 303 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:29.920 my work anyways. But yeah, evaluation, valuation is valuation is one metric 304 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.319 to judge the sustainability of a business or the success of the business. What 305 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:37.680 he tells you is how much that company is worth to D and what people 306 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:41.319 who have invested in that company feel like that company is worth to them, 307 00:23:42.279 --> 00:23:45.000 Especially when the company is not public, which is the case of many of 308 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:49.319 the startups that I the space to date. They're not public and so their 309 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:55.160 evaluation is entirely subjective. Whether they're worth a billion dollars, two billion dollars, 310 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:59.200 one hundred billion, or treellion dollars, we can't say for sure until 311 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.000 they go public. We all that we know is everybody who invested in this 312 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:07.720 company or wants to buy shares or currenty has shares in this company values it 313 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:11.839 at the amounts that is for their own balance sheets for them, and so 314 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:18.599 a lot of things could happen. The business could revise its valuation to it 315 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.640 downround which is which is what it's called. Or they could also you know, 316 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:26.319 raise for law and funding and increase evaluation. Again, when a company 317 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:30.960 raises money, it doesn't necessarily mean that evaluation will go up. It also 318 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:34.200 doesn't also mean that it must go down. I evaluation goes with CEVA direction 319 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:38.160 if it wants to go based on what has been discussed with the financials, 320 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.759 and so that's a different conversation. When it comes to sustainability of the business, 321 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:49.160 that is a very different conversation. The valuation doesn't tell you realistically that 322 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.920 a business is going to be sustainable. It only tells you that in today's 323 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:57.279 world, in today's based off the current conversation about what the companies were, 324 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.880 this is how much it is in terms of valuation. It doesn't tell you 325 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:04.039 whether or not that business is going to be successful, but it gives you 326 00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:08.559 a hint. If you value a company that started two years ago a one 327 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:14.400 hundred billion dollars from nowhere, or from ten million dollars to a hundred billion 328 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:18.119 dollars. That tells you how excited the people in the room are. When 329 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:22.039 they give a company that kind of valuation, that tells you maybe something huge 330 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.880 is coming or something else is coming. But again, ausstic on valuation. 331 00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:32.160 If it's valuation itself is driven by several things, it could be that they 332 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:37.599 are marking of the company based on comparables, like, for example, if 333 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:41.880 you were to value as any bank. For example, if you're assume it's 334 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:47.039 any bank is private, and you want to value it's any bank in today's 335 00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:49.240 world, you look at how much it any banks and it's you know, 336 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:53.519 how much deposited? Told in what this income is like? What is balanceship 337 00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:56.880 looks like? Realistically? What the cashal feels like? And then you too, 338 00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:02.160 you do a comparison. You compare with the G bank, you compare 339 00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:04.559 with our new copak, and you figure out, hokey, if this company 340 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:08.640 is compared to just what I want, how does it look like your share 341 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:11.880 prices make sense? You know, that's like a simple you know, you 342 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:19.680 know a you know the thing is if I I own a company, If 343 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:26.200 I own a company and I value It depends on if I come to the 344 00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:32.519 year as a final sayer or as somebody there who is an accountant of something. 345 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:38.440 A lot of it depends on how I pitch it to you, to 346 00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:42.680 say, you know what my company is going to be worth this, this, 347 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:48.720 this, and this never that doesn't tell really that that is that is 348 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.680 you know? That is fine? Whichever which if anybody who is smart enough 349 00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:59.759 to access the page base of something like that and give it whatever valuation is, 350 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:03.000 and if it works for them, it works for them. But you 351 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:06.759 know, the real world, what you do is you would obviously start with 352 00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:10.880 looking at the financials, and that is how you do it. Especially when 353 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:15.720 a company is at Series A, it's at a level that is fairly decent 354 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:18.039 enough for you to put a dollar valuation or what the company does. You 355 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.319 would typically look at the financials and projects. That is how you do it. 356 00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:26.400 But all that by decide back to the journalism aspect of it. I 357 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:30.759 would say that you know, we do we do our fair page to make 358 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:33.839 sure that we're not only fixated on the valuation aspect of a business. We 359 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:37.599 want to know how sustainable it is, and which is why you're seeing a 360 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:44.039 bunch of stories that people who assume or think it's negative in the media because 361 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:45.960 you know, for example, there's been a layer of the company, or 362 00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:52.960 the co founders exited the company, or a company has you know, it 363 00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:57.720 has it's seeing a huge spike in the number of customers who are fleeing, 364 00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.960 or we join theirvance go elsewhere. All of these, uh, you know, 365 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:04.960 issues that businesses would face at some points. Maybe many of them would 366 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.160 not face it, some of them might face it, but generally these are 367 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:11.759 issues that we track as journalists and we use that to figure out how sustainable 368 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:17.000 the business is as a going concern. But that's for the first question. 369 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:19.119 You know, we don't always focus on we shadn't we try to get as 370 00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:23.000 more detail as possible about the certainbility of a business. And you know, 371 00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:33.000 you're you're thinking, is that business people, that's the point of being able 372 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:37.640 to prene Here, I am telling you this from a point of you know, 373 00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:44.319 all right, so let me get back her to express themselves and then 374 00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:51.400 I'm going to call you in to speak just so putting move into the second 375 00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:56.079 question, which is why don't we profile the successful companies that do not always 376 00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:59.839 have the fancy valuations that you know, you see with other companies, and 377 00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:06.440 I agree too. You know, we are constantly looking for the valuable companies 378 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:10.000 that are not always in the spotlight, and we try our best to write 379 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.559 about this company. And now speaking from the journalism side of things, and 380 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:17.720 we do this fairly well. You would see. You notice, like way 381 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:22.039 before we became a two billion dollar company, I personally wrote about them quite 382 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:26.759 a few times. And I wrote about them not because they were raising money, 383 00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:29.880 but because of how the business model worked. Same thing, Go Kada 384 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:33.440 Go Kada was never a billion dollar business. But when you think about them, 385 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:37.039 when you hear the business or when you hear how much coverage they got 386 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.680 way back in twenty nineteen, it feels as though they were, you know, 387 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.440 multiples of millions of dollars in evaluation. But really why they got so 388 00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:49.480 much coverage was because we could see on the street that this company is there, 389 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:53.400 it's doing this, it's helping people move around. It's something that we 390 00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:56.880 need to understand. And we did a lot of coverage back then until the 391 00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:02.359 business had its own issues because of the government on the one hand. And 392 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:06.319 so yeah, we're constantly looking for, you know, similar businesses like that 393 00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:10.519 that are thriving but are not always in the line light and give them the 394 00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:15.079 spotlight that they deserves. And it's not always going to be driven by conversations 395 00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:18.960 about valuations. So you know, that is how we tipically do things. 396 00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:21.880 And with the level of actress, we are able to get with some of 397 00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.319 those companies in terms of whether or not their CEOs want to talk to us, 398 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:27.359 the other management team want to talk to us. That way, we're 399 00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:33.599 able to write a more compelling article about any of those businesses. For the 400 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:38.640 third question, which is about having a you know, sheriff in time that 401 00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:44.440 looks into those companies and make sure that you know, we're able to understand 402 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.839 the issues that customer has a faction on the one hand, and whether or 403 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:55.039 not some of those businesses are fortunate. I would say this, we do 404 00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:59.880 not know for sure. As journalists like again this climber here is I am 405 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.119 Johness. I'm speaking from the perspective of somebody who actively converses in lorship. 406 00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:07.319 I will start up by saying that we do not know fully whether or not 407 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:12.039 a business is fraudulent. I cannot say it's that this company's a fraud until 408 00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:17.359 I do the work I cannot say it's a fraud based on two or three 409 00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:19.799 customers coming to tell me that it's a fraud. I would have to do 410 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:26.160 my investigation. Investigation takes time. Investigation requires a lot of resources. Investigation 411 00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.920 requires a lot of access. It requires talking to people, requires talking to 412 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:36.079 customers, It requires getting Insit then, to some an extent, the companies 413 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.599 are anxious too to figure out is this money that they claim to be in 414 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:45.440 the customer deposit is it actually there? Like how much of the customer deposity 415 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.880 that they claim to hold is actually still in the balance sheet? To be 416 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:52.400 all of that is you know, it's a process, it's delicate, it's 417 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:57.680 difficult, and it's a particularly challenging in an environment like Nigeria where people do 418 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:02.000 not talk. People only talk when things hit the fan. People only talk 419 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:06.160 when it's dropped down in the neck. Uh. And so you know, 420 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:08.920 you can get a sense about when the company is not doing the right thing 421 00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:14.279 by hear what the customers are saying, But you don't immediately, as somebody 422 00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:20.000 who covers this industry, you immediately begin to throw around the world fraud until 423 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.799 you have proof. And when I say proof, I mean I don't mean 424 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.839 I simply one or two people coming to tell you that, oh, I 425 00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:30.359 heard that our company is a problem company. I mean like real proof that 426 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:34.039 to an extent, you can stack up in the courts if you are sued. 427 00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:37.359 If you do not have stuff like that, then if you try around 428 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:39.960 the world for you could get a serial struggle. And so that is typically 429 00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:45.319 how do you think you did investigation? Then you can begin to you know, 430 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:50.240 try out the right term terms to describe a company. But generally, 431 00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:52.359 if we do pay attention to many of the issues that this companies are facing, 432 00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:59.880 can we say we don't like this, Like if we see a CEO, 433 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.160 like going to the Dash issue, I saw a reporting on that it 434 00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:07.920 was ading six hundred thousand dollars a year. Six hundred thousand dollars a year. 435 00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:14.359 I don't think the m D of Chase Bank, the largest bank in 436 00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:17.440 the world, and six hundred thousand a year, I doubt it, but 437 00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:22.960 I don't think. I don't think he ends six. When you see a 438 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.759 start up any six hundred thousand a year, that's a red flag for any 439 00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:36.640 stock investment analysts will tell you a red flag. I mean terification first, 440 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:39.559 And you know I wasn't one who wrote the initial reports on on on Thath. 441 00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:44.039 It was reported by Harry is a quid who was sa we tracker and 442 00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:49.039 is a fantastic guy. Beautiful article on your hand. Also to clarify two, 443 00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:53.039 I know for a fact that the see of JP Morgan ends way more 444 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:58.720 than six thousand dollars a year, interns a full compensation. Put him up 445 00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:02.359 a young I mean stop, I mean there's a point at the point is 446 00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:07.559 that on salary, man, he doesn't end six and a grand. He 447 00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:10.000 ends on stock belief he makes a profit this and you make my point. 448 00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:15.280 He gets a stock op show he gets if he's bonus plan, if he 449 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.519 hits this, he gets that. But his salary six or third case, 450 00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:22.440 how much a month? Look after the man fifty a month. The whole 451 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:30.440 eyes salaries and that is what ties into you know, do you back and 452 00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:34.559 question you're going to ask me, which is about comfort governments? You know, 453 00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:38.039 it is a red flag in the context of what the business does. 454 00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:45.320 You know, get certain cases where definitely a CEO can be so consequential to 455 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:49.519 a business that the board would decide to pay him however much they want to 456 00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:53.280 pay him, or to retain their talents as a CEO of a company. 457 00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:58.639 That is something that the board and the CEO and the management chain of the 458 00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:00.760 company would have to decide. Uh. And so it's it's fine, it's 459 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:06.679 own in the context of the company. It depends on what those guys are 460 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:10.119 discussion and whatever value the thing the CEO has in the space or in the 461 00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:16.679 context of DASH, I would say based on reporting what was done, based 462 00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:22.199 on reporting from a year ago or two years ago, it is mind blowing 463 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:27.719 that a company like that could be paying to CEO that level of salary. 464 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:30.159 And so that is why it's so so violent because when you look at it, 465 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:35.360 it's not where else. Uh you know what what is when you're making 466 00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:43.000 a decision, that is the r is playing job on earth decision making and 467 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:46.679 you you stick by your decision. That's why they are again I paid that 468 00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:52.519 money for me personally, or are saying they should be repaid that money because 469 00:35:52.559 --> 00:36:04.159 they're making decisions over Maybe maybe it's not the moner about money. About to 470 00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:07.400 give some background, how old those staff maybe love following, how old those 471 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:13.280 stuff? How old? So just yeah, I think that's was like max 472 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.800 four years old, so four year old company. It's a year startup, 473 00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:23.679 startup. It's trying to It was trying to like provide a consumer fit like 474 00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:30.480 it was trying to basically operate a mobile money wants in starting with Ghana, 475 00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:36.280 to help people make transactions and make payments and buy the charge cards, do 476 00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:39.880 all the basic stuff that what pays doing in Nigeria. At the same time, 477 00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:45.400 play around with with with international payments in the sense that all of that 478 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:49.360 muber money accounts that exist in Ghana, it will try to connect it with 479 00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:52.920 nober money or other bad accounts in Nigeria, similarly in Kenya, in such 480 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:57.119 a way that if you're in any one of those countries, you can transform 481 00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:02.199 money across this country with the DASH network. With the Dash at theoretically that 482 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:09.360 much that was what the business model, but not clearly. Yeah, I'm 483 00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:14.960 thinking about customers firm. I don't even have much with that because then we 484 00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:19.119 butt o bread for that kind of act would just be maybe it was that 485 00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:23.760 is that would be discussual devices if I complete, but customers phones, we 486 00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:29.440 have cooms, we have people that those friends and what we've want to see 487 00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:34.719 the start upstarts after people stands for about a year. I can't see you 488 00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:39.360 I can come like you put it at difficult. It's more than doing the 489 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:44.599 just blame start up saying that okay, we can give you a cash we're 490 00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:51.559 going to turn into equity. But I asked him to the man to what 491 00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:54.599 are you asking from him? And asked a little, not a bit, 492 00:37:54.679 --> 00:38:00.679 that those things are just like customers, b ADP and we'll make it about 493 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:04.639 it. And those they're asking there are you asking him because he's just a 494 00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.039 tech reporter? I mean, are you are you asking to explain what's happened 495 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:10.440 or why don't they write about it? And trying to get to what you 496 00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:15.199 want from him? No, I'm just trying to get it. But because 497 00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:19.880 yes, it's about he has put that perspective to them. So maybe they 498 00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:22.239 had things that we don't know because for me, I don't write about markets 499 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:25.360 or what is the back dad? You know, and things like that. 500 00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:30.280 So I'm trying to see whether I'm trying to work mind. Maybe there are 501 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:34.800 things that we will know that these things are happening and jail capture, because 502 00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:38.360 if he happens, bads, we know what happened. We do CEOs as 503 00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:45.840 protlematic as if he happened. If you're cretad industry. You know what happened 504 00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:51.079 to them, but that didn't happen becoming so much. No, people ben't 505 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:57.360 going to key the key word there is regulated industry. When you're in a 506 00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.920 regulated space, you know what's expected, view, you know how to handle 507 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:05.719 yourself, you know how you know where the restaurants are. But if you're 508 00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:07.960 not in the regulated space, the rules that need to be nuanced, it's 509 00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:12.800 not even just nuance, the rules don't exist. And then you begin you 510 00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:16.639 as a customer yourself, you understand to understand what is expected. Also unless 511 00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:21.400 that you might not know what you understand their bones, you are not as 512 00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:24.679 safe compared to somebody whose money is in the bank. If you're in crypto, 513 00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:29.079 that is typically the rule of the game. You are exposed on the 514 00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:35.360 bad basic level. You're exposed to volatility, you're exposed to to thra if 515 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.880 you're exposed to so many things, you're also exposed to the fact that the 516 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:43.679 platform where your where your crypto is is dominostat where your what it is right 517 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:46.119 now might not be as safe as you think it is. And we've seen 518 00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:51.119 high profile laws that are not even like you know, we're talking about Patricia, 519 00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:54.800 when you when you can't relate time of depositsha was probably olden at the 520 00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:59.119 time it fell apart, It's probably not more than one hundred yion dollars. 521 00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:04.679 But when looking that, which is one of the biggest crypto space time, 522 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:08.800 yeah you know what I mean, yeah, real time, and it was 523 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:15.880 holding tens of billions of dolls of crypto talking or do I see the posit 524 00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:22.199 for customers and that is still something that is bacially to everybody. Hold on, 525 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:25.440 hold on, I want to get some something. Let me just let 526 00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:29.840 me get more than Olimia's question is going to be there forever, so I 527 00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:31.039 see, I'm want to bring you up. Let me get my don not 528 00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:35.039 to speak. That's about his being more than David has quite been hopping in 529 00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:37.119 and out. Let me get him to speak, and then will cecle back 530 00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:42.800 more than there? You go ahead, Thank you very much, sir. 531 00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:52.000 Yes, please go ahead. When you have to meet your minds, Yeah, 532 00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:59.920 I think you hated am I am now? Yes? Are okay? 533 00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:02.880 The tomstile. My question is on dois diction? I want to talk about 534 00:41:02.920 --> 00:41:07.320 Patricia, but I'm happy that the topic is not part of the discussion. 535 00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:14.559 Patricia relocated to Estonia before they came out and told us on Twitter that God 536 00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:19.320 from people's assets to a to a different assets without anybody's same permission. And 537 00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.559 from the look of things, the matter has died down. So my potion 538 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:27.360 to mister Hamback, who was my first potion, is I'm please lighting not 539 00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:34.920 on them jurisdictions and legalities consigning the center companies from crypto to micro finance banks. 540 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:38.840 Then my second pusson is on my media. I hear that they have 541 00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:43.960 this their motion in con Valley inside the bush because I don't know the little 542 00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:46.480 anxiety bush, but they're doing something gain. So please I want your personal 543 00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:52.960 opinion about that case ideal for him, because I watched some mussuse since they 544 00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:57.239 are bad, they will said that their talk can o break on black the 545 00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:00.239 same Africa are of first days that they have a reach, they have your 546 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:04.679 phone, they have this, they have that people who come there an invest 547 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:08.400 So please start. My second question is Namibia. If it does Norman Africa 548 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:16.760 catch you in something based on your started journalism, my name looking for them 549 00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:23.119 to this diction stack and focus on legal for the record. On on Damibia, 550 00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:27.800 I'm not aware of of of that. I don't know much about that 551 00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.840 trend. So I can speak to on the For the first question, which 552 00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:34.760 is on which is Patricia, I would say I want to lay out the 553 00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:40.199 facts. The first fact here is Patricia did not recently relocate to Astomia. 554 00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:50.079 Patricia relocated like it moved through It moved its operations abroad in I think in 555 00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:53.639 twenty twenty one, when the Center Bank of Nigeria first you know, announced 556 00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:59.239 that banks should no longer work with cyptocurrency companies. That was when that happened. 557 00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.360 That was when many of the startups in the crypto space decided to shift 558 00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:07.800 domicile or their their out they're operated as a company into you know, into 559 00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:13.559 they were structured into offshore entities. They no longer were based in Nigeria as 560 00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:19.199 corporate entities. And the case of Patricia, it moved to Estonia and then 561 00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:23.639 to Lithuania, which is the last place it was. It's listed, I 562 00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:27.039 mean, which is one of the countries is listed on this website, so 563 00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:30.039 it's it's there. Information is all as already in public for the last two 564 00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:32.760 years, and so it's not a recent strne It's not they did not just 565 00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:38.880 move to They're not just abroad simply because or before this issue, they've moved 566 00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:44.599 there way before now, and so when it comes to jurisations, there's the 567 00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:51.159 points to also keep in mind is it's a different conversation because one am not 568 00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:54.519 a lawyer. And second I would say that, you know, the most 569 00:43:54.519 --> 00:44:00.079 apparent thing is where does this company operate? Where your customers is and so 570 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:04.639 that itself opens you up as a com to those types of questions, to 571 00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:07.840 those type of conversations, to those type of risk. You know, the 572 00:44:07.880 --> 00:44:13.079 company might say because they are not based in Nigeria, for example, they 573 00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:16.239 do not they're not yable to Nigerian laws. And to some extents when you 574 00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:22.760 read on Patricia's on terms of service, they do use some of those language 575 00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:25.480 in their in their terms of service, which happened way before now. I 576 00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:29.719 should add it was not before. It was not right before they blew up, 577 00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:32.159 It was not right after they collapsed, It was not when they ran 578 00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:36.760 into trouble. It has always been there in terms of service. But the 579 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:43.519 point still remains that they are holding funds only have Nigerian customers for people who 580 00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:46.719 are based in Nigeria, so they have some exposure to the Nigerant market. 581 00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:51.880 And they do have to you know, pay attention to Nigerian laws and you 582 00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:54.000 know, take action in that regards. But again I'm not a lawyer, 583 00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:58.679 so I cannot say for a fact that this is how distinction we don't put 584 00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:04.880 from generatually presidents. I would expect that based on where they operate, based 585 00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:09.760 on where they have customers, they do have to treat their customers fair and 586 00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:14.920 not just simply up and disappear with customers access. And they're going to back 587 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.920 up just for context, who is Patricia, what does should do? What 588 00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:22.599 happened? Just for context for folks that are listening, so pro first, 589 00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:27.960 who who do not know? Patricia is a cryptocurrency platform. It was started 590 00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:30.840 I think way back. I think maybe the earliest time I heard about them 591 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:35.519 was in twenty nineteen, but I'm sure they plan before that, and so 592 00:45:35.719 --> 00:45:42.159 they they became way popular in twenty twenty when they sponsored the Big Brand niger 593 00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:47.480 and popular reality TV show and they've remained famous ever since and they have held 594 00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:53.519 millions of dollars on behalf of Nigeria cryptocurrency users until the company first had an 595 00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:59.920 issue with the Cyber Act last year, and then they officially confirmed the cyber 596 00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:04.599 attack earlier this year, and since our report went out, the company has 597 00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:08.400 been struggling to repay customers who were trying to pull out their funds in the 598 00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:15.039 frenzy. And so the companies are struggling to fully repay the holders. And 599 00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:19.880 so right now it's been it's currently in a state or should I say it 600 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:24.440 has grown apart as a company's still trying to repay customers and it's asking for 601 00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:32.440 patients and different schemes to get customers to count down. Probably said they were 602 00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:36.880 hacked, more or less that's what happened, that we hacked. Yeah, 603 00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:38.840 according to Reference, they were hacked, and they did confound that they were 604 00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:44.440 hacked, and they lost a significant chunk of customer deposits. And so they've 605 00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:47.559 been struggling to repay that ever since. Okay, so more than I think 606 00:46:49.159 --> 00:47:01.760 it's already, I think he has summer more than I think as quacker the 607 00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:09.320 question right, more than my mother confess. I don't believe that it was 608 00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:15.760 personal opinion. I know, I know when I'm saying that he doesn't have 609 00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:16.920 to be. It doesn't have to you don't have to k But he answered 610 00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:22.239 the question when she was asking a back wouldn't know, but he work at 611 00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:25.079 the journalist. No, no, no, no, he wouldn't know. 612 00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:29.559 He can report, but he wouldn't know. I don't wanted to put I 613 00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:31.599 don't have to pull the back out to some standard. He's a journalist, 614 00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:37.239 right, understand that. I just sure that maybe he can enlighten us better 615 00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:42.119 because he wouldn't a bit confused. What am I saying? That was f 616 00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:46.119 GS for an example, FGS kept the money in Bahama's brige. His finance 617 00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:52.519 was what he was on America, and he had the money with Americans in 618 00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:55.119 his possession and to be at least do some next thing. He's going to 619 00:47:55.239 --> 00:48:00.760 face some level of justice and people are going to be big back mending investment. 620 00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:05.559 But for the Patricia don't even know how to leave the comfort one. 621 00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:08.880 We don't even know how to get our money back. What license did Partisier 622 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:14.760 have? Who can? Who can tell me more than what life cent did 623 00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:20.360 Patriier have? I guess. I would also add that c x X was 624 00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:24.360 a fraud. It was confounded as a fraud and investigation has been carried out 625 00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:29.239 by legal authorities to determine the extent of the fraud. Where was it? 626 00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:38.400 What was it the first because I cannot I cannot call a patrition for because 627 00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:43.039 I am not a leg I'm not the the government enforcer. I have not 628 00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:47.159 carried out any such investigation to determine that it is afore still, as far 629 00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:51.920 as our concern, we're still looking into the company as journalists to figure out 630 00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:58.039 how the okay, but what life section has that to the best of my 631 00:48:58.119 --> 00:49:04.039 knowledge, he did not have. But did she have any license at all? 632 00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:07.920 Does she have any more than hold on? More than hold on? 633 00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:14.000 Does she have any license from any judicial at all? Anyone, not not 634 00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:19.920 registration license, not sex but any license from the body at all. To 635 00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:22.639 the rest of my knowledge, I am not sure had the license because, 636 00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:28.760 on the one hand, cryptocalcy companies typically do not need a license in many 637 00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:35.480 places, or those acquire a license. And that's the problem. And that's 638 00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:37.239 the problem because people listen, that's the problem. You know, you just 639 00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:44.039 said she had one hundred million dollars in deposits. I mean, I said, 640 00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:46.559 to the best of my knowledge, not blaming you about that. No, 641 00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:50.760 not blame you. I'm not saying that not yeah, no, I'm 642 00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:54.639 just saying that if an institution can can have even if it's ten million dollars 643 00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:59.440 in deposits without a license. You have to talk about the pot are given. 644 00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:04.599 That is your money, ten millions, hold millions without a license. 645 00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:07.960 I don't know, man, it is it is like it's it's a big 646 00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:12.079 issue. Okay. You know people have talked about this for a long time. 647 00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:15.920 We don't know how to you know, handle cryptocurrency companies, and it's 648 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:20.199 been an issue everywhere. It's not it's not now and you know many companies 649 00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:23.880 have failed over time because of this same issue, so it's not unique to 650 00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:29.000 them. It is, however, unique is the fact that you know, 651 00:50:29.119 --> 00:50:31.440 we're still not seeing the way it's been handled. It's not being the best, 652 00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:37.199 it's not been impressive, and it might get worse. So customers are 653 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:38.280 still trying to figure it out, so to the best of my knowledge, 654 00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:42.440 and that's a situation that can see. Let me get to push it in 655 00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:45.719 here. So thanks for holding on all these v patients go ahead, So 656 00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:52.320 I appreciate your time as well. Can't to everybody as well listening, and 657 00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:55.920 thank you as well for the time that back. Thank you for taking the 658 00:50:57.039 --> 00:51:04.440 heat for man to bring it up. I can actually talk about how it 659 00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:08.280 could be able, but we've already got to this level. We've we've touched 660 00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:14.119 on a lot of things. I might I can understand that for your for 661 00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:19.320 you, from your point of view, you can't explicitly call out Patricia a 662 00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:25.960 flat bustard who didn't customer funds and whether or not they're mismanaging it, like 663 00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:31.519 you said, after proving the cutup no rights. But technically speaking, that's 664 00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:36.440 what all of these companies are doing, right. And I think Carlo or 665 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:40.800 someone did point out that the issue really is a knowledge tap for most people 666 00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:46.199 who are less text savvy to really understand what's going on under the hood. 667 00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:53.239 They might just buy into the gorilla marketing that these guys just push out there 668 00:51:53.599 --> 00:52:00.119 and everything they don't they all they need to see is that's x ray the 669 00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:07.679 person has given you approval or accreditation, that you are trusted a company, 670 00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:15.079 and then Nigerians just trying to leave the Nigerian system opt into disorder criminal systems 671 00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:20.559 unknowingly right. So that's just my thing work for you for we've got a 672 00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:22.119 venture that have to speak. I just wanted to ask you Abo back and 673 00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:29.800 write the streamline question. What would you say is this similarity between these questions 674 00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:35.960 that I mentioned right, because we've been calling fourhand demise before pandemic. A 675 00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:37.960 lot of people said that's crazy. How can see them be? Brother? 676 00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:43.239 You literally these cameras and they are saying the same thing for Flotter with right 677 00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:47.639 now and a lot about our companies that is literally born with the same templates. 678 00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:55.800 Would you disagree with that? Would you say that with Patricia that all 679 00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:00.880 share the same templates or just holding customer phones and mismanaging it? Or would 680 00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:06.239 you say that? And I do you think this is probably riddling the tech 681 00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:10.960 space in Africa and Nigeria since the way I'm talking about Nigeria right, How 682 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:14.039 would you talk? How would how would you? How would you? How 683 00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:16.719 would you address this this issue? Here? The blood and I might as 684 00:53:16.760 --> 00:53:21.760 been action, But yeah, I guess the person that I'll say is nobody 685 00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:25.039 knew like nobody in the general public knew about the dash issue until he went 686 00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:29.719 until he was you know, written about by the journalists, and you know, 687 00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:34.719 it has become a popular you know, conversation point in this in this 688 00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:38.400 session on district space simply because of the fact that the Jenerali who wrote that, 689 00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:42.840 so he did a lot of work to verified information before he went out 690 00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:45.960 and published it. It did not just simply, you know, write in 691 00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:50.480 suite and say thatsh is a fraud. Now that did he just write an 692 00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:52.960 article and see thatshes a fraud as they had like with no facts. And 693 00:53:53.079 --> 00:53:57.800 so he did the work and he got a card information and he put out 694 00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:02.159 that story. And now we know for a fact that that had issues and 695 00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:07.440 it ultimately led to its collapse that we know as a fact because of the 696 00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:09.480 workman has been done. I would say the same spirit of faith or the 697 00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:14.760 same spirit of legitimately also applies to when you talk about black companies too, 698 00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:17.880 and talk about it in the context of whether or not our journalists have written 699 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:22.039 or should write about those companies. They will write about those companies. We 700 00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:25.599 will write about those companies when we have a sufficient information about them to live 701 00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:31.480 out them in whatever form you're talking about. But again, we cannot seculy 702 00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:37.239 try around whatever levels. We have to figure out the facts of the conversation 703 00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:42.840 before we talk about any company. And so far, whatever company is, 704 00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:46.280 you know, we're still looking into them as journalists, career journalists, investigative 705 00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:50.960 journalists, whichever one it is, to figure out how these companies are performing. 706 00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:57.840 I would also earn a side of caution to say simply because their startups 707 00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:01.559 doesn't mean that the company is this fraudulent. I would say that that is. 708 00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:06.800 That is actually one of the biggest challenges we've seen our Many of these 709 00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:08.440 companies. They want to they want to scale, they want to crew, 710 00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:13.159 they want to up with their standard businesses, but they keep having the trust 711 00:55:13.239 --> 00:55:16.920 deficits simply because of there's many bad actors that exist, because of what has 712 00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:21.559 happened with Dash, because of what people are faced with with with Patricia, 713 00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:24.599 you begin to say our companies in the crypto space and the financial services space, 714 00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:30.880 that our startups are fraudulent. Meanwhile, we've had companies like by coins 715 00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:37.480 which honorarily shut down its consumer focused aspect. By Coins has been around for 716 00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:39.519 a long long time. It was there before that, it was there before 717 00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:44.599 Patricia, and it phased out. It's crypto, it's consumer, it's speak 718 00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:50.679 of the aspect of its content with crypto app gradually until it stops. Nobody 719 00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:52.679 has come out to say by cons is in front, at least not to 720 00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:58.079 my knowledge. You know, it's based on how this company handled itself. 721 00:55:58.119 --> 00:56:00.920 And I would say the same grace applies to so many other companies that are 722 00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:06.599 doing things the right way in terms of how they handle customer deposits, how 723 00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:10.920 they handle winding down when they eventually you know, about to collapse, they 724 00:56:12.039 --> 00:56:14.960 do it in such many of them tend to do things in the right way. 725 00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:17.440 So I would say, you know, they are a handful of bad 726 00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:22.280 actors in the space. They're a handful of case studies that I've done really 727 00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:27.000 pooring after business and also with how they've handled customer deposit. But I would 728 00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:31.079 say overall, many many, many, many companies, pactically startups are trying 729 00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:37.239 their best to operate legally, to operate properly, and to ensure that they 730 00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:39.920 are not the next dash to ensure that they're not the next you know, 731 00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:46.079 Patricia to run into troubles with how it makes its customer deposit hod. But 732 00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:49.920 yeah, it's it's a challenge, but you know, all these companies are 733 00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:53.920 doing their fair page to ensure that they are not the ones to lose customer 734 00:56:54.079 --> 00:56:58.800 money in any form. And of course, last journalists, I would say, 735 00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:00.840 if we do find that any of those companies have done so, we 736 00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:05.599 gon before the public people write about those companies to the best of our knowledge, 737 00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:08.559 how we have a little information that we have about these entities. So 738 00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:14.079 o other than that, I would say, it's first to keep on doing 739 00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:16.920 the work or portion of these companies without actually trying to label them as something 740 00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:20.519 that they are not or what do you know, have the fact to see 741 00:57:20.559 --> 00:57:25.960 at them that they are. But that's why I did it the fo Yeah. 742 00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:32.039 The follow up is it seems to me that about worker is being born 743 00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:37.599 cautions and no, no, no, no, no, no not Actually 744 00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:42.000 I would saying no, and I just want to please say that. Yeah, 745 00:57:43.719 --> 00:57:45.280 yeah, thank you, I appreciate it. Yeah, I would say 746 00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:52.960 from my viewpoint, uh, you did not address flutter Away or buying as 747 00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:58.000 or any of these like you mentioned bride coins. I strongly disagree with that, 748 00:57:58.119 --> 00:58:01.440 but that might be a big contactic come So my follow up question would 749 00:58:01.480 --> 00:58:09.280 be for entities startups or not that choose to hold customer funds, right, 750 00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:15.639 oh yeah, yeah, right, looking out what we just explained, Now 751 00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:20.360 that's I'm sort of reacting to the question and the template right that was that 752 00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:27.440 that is their bigness marchal right, Should Nigerias be scared of float Away or 753 00:58:27.559 --> 00:58:30.559 any other text startup that says, hey, just bring your money and then 754 00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:35.119 we'll give you X y Z tokens that should represent the value that you give 755 00:58:35.239 --> 00:58:37.559 us, and hopefully when you come back together, we should have those tokens 756 00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:44.960 or value what we gave us. I mean, there were other journalists and 757 00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:52.039 other hardcore patrician people that did and still do Deferend and his company Patricia and 758 00:58:52.119 --> 00:58:57.679 about it actually toward the co So that's what I'm reasoning, and I'm asking 759 00:58:57.719 --> 00:59:01.079 this question. A lot of tech companies have this temp. Right, do 760 00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:06.400 you condemn the template where I bring your money, will hold your money for 761 00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:10.320 you, and we will explotely good price action because that's what a lot of 762 00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:16.079 people are looking for, right And then once you're ready to exit your position, 763 00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:21.559 first believe that we've got the liquidity to cover it, because it doesn't 764 00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:23.880 to be the case for most of the companies. So that's I guess my 765 00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:29.400 look for that. Could you address that and would use it for a fact 766 00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:37.400 that flutter With is solvent? Well, I'll back out. He can't know 767 00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:43.159 that question. He doesn't know if that's the point. He can't know that. 768 00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:46.360 So let me let me start out by saying this. The first thing 769 00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:50.519 I would say is I'm scared about my reputation when it comes to talking about 770 00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:54.679 the companies. I give my reputation by covering this companies and doing so properly. 771 00:59:55.239 --> 01:00:00.280 And if I've ever done anything that was should I see low popular standard, 772 01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:04.239 it would have come up right now. And so I hand my reputation 773 01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:10.280 carefully. And it's not because of protecting my reputation that I'm being careful. 774 01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:15.079 It's simply the way it should be done. You cannot throughout statements and make 775 01:00:15.880 --> 01:00:22.000 accusations or you know whatever, whatever it is just really just straight around without 776 01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:25.119 evidence. You have to be very careful to make sure that you have the 777 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:30.840 facts. Whether you're a journalists and investor in the start to founder irregulator, 778 01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:34.360 you have to be careful. You have to be decently, you have to 779 01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:37.480 be proper when you say these things. So that is how you should do 780 01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:40.800 it. You do it regardless of your reputation. You do it because that 781 01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:45.400 is the right thing to do. That by the side, I would stay 782 01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:49.320 up front that I don't know how Furtherish financials look like. I haven't seen 783 01:00:49.400 --> 01:00:52.400 their balance sheet. I can't tell you whether't not you a solvent or they 784 01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:57.159 are not but I know for a fact that the payments company, they do 785 01:00:57.400 --> 01:01:01.760 not hold customer deposits. On how I've study their financials or should actually that 786 01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:07.559 business model, I do not know that they have a current platform or company 787 01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:14.039 or business model that holds. Again, the key word here is host deposit 788 01:01:14.199 --> 01:01:19.199 taking business. The only business that I know that they do have that is 789 01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:24.119 a deposit taking service is better the payments aure and to the best of my 790 01:01:24.199 --> 01:01:28.280 knowledge, better is on the development right now. But that doesn't hold your 791 01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:31.880 money right now because it's still on the development. Send Up doesn't hold your 792 01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:36.480 money. Sent Up, which is the remittance product. It helps you send 793 01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:39.920 money from the US for money countries and it gets a positive into your nine 794 01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:45.559 grant bank account. It doesn't hold your money. Fluttering as a company as 795 01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:49.480 a payment service doesn't hold your money. You have your bank accounts, the 796 01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:52.239 merchant has your own back account. It only takes money to where about the 797 01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:57.800 money should go. To reason on my knowledge again about how this business model 798 01:01:57.800 --> 01:02:01.119 works. It doesn't hold your own money. That is very important. And 799 01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:07.119 you keep on mentioning tech companies and mentioning trading and holding the posits, and 800 01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:12.920 I'm confused because there are significant chants of companies that do not even hold the 801 01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:15.559 posits to begin with. They're basically technology companies. You need to be able 802 01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:20.199 to distinguish which is which, What is it the project taking company, What 803 01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:23.480 is the business model? What is a trading company? What is an investment 804 01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:29.440 platform? These are very very very different business models that you need to know 805 01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:31.960 which is which. If you're not even to distinguish which is which, then 806 01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:37.760 you also have trouble distinguishing which regulator should do what. But you cannot tray 807 01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:42.880 around the CBN. You cannot be talking about the CBN regulatory actions for a 808 01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:46.199 company that is into investments. You would look at an SEC for that example. 809 01:02:46.519 --> 01:02:51.199 You cannot be traying around the company that is into investment and expect the 810 01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:54.360 CBN to take action. Again, these are very different business models. In 811 01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:59.480 the case of Patricia, that would mention on go over so many times on 812 01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:06.039 this company. Patricia is a cryptocurrency platform. It is a platform for cryptocurrency 813 01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:10.360 and to the rest of my lower Nigeria does not have a cryptocurrency license, 814 01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:15.440 either CIPEN or the SEC. What the SEC has at best is a blockchain 815 01:03:15.519 --> 01:03:21.280 license and a blockchain framework, neither of which is designed to hold the posits, 816 01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:28.599 neither of which is designed to be Australian platform. And the other license 817 01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:32.880 that does exist is a crowd funding license, which is a different thing entirely. 818 01:03:34.239 --> 01:03:37.880 When you deal with crypto in Nigeria, you have to realize, as 819 01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:42.239 gonds strange from one, that you do not have regulatory cover for anything. 820 01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:50.199 You only have best phase assumption that the currently consumer protection agencies might have interest 821 01:03:50.559 --> 01:03:54.039 in protecting Nigera customers when they use this platforms. But in terms of legal 822 01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:59.880 protection you have none, and the government has really cleared that you have none. 823 01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:02.880 The banks are very clear that they are on the street regulation to not 824 01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:08.960 deal with cryptocurrency platforms. So everything you're seeing that you talk about with the 825 01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:13.159 cryptocurrency company, with a bank, with the payment company, all of that 826 01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:17.760 engagement, all of those activities you're seeing, they're very close to having regulatory 827 01:04:17.800 --> 01:04:23.199 problems for licensed businesses that are engage in crypto, and they are all very 828 01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:27.199 careful to make sure that they do not get into trouble. So when you 829 01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:30.440 try around tech companies, you mention them, I see the concepts and you 830 01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:34.519 measure them. I say trading. You're conflating so many things tech companies do 831 01:04:34.800 --> 01:04:40.039 so many things. Very few of them are into trading, very few of 832 01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:44.719 them are into crypto. Very few of them own marketplaces for trading cryptocurrency. 833 01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:48.079 So you have to be specific which one is it and based on the Again, 834 01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:53.360 when you mentioned flood, that we are saying without protile you solving fluttered 835 01:04:53.679 --> 01:04:58.360 doesn't hold your money. Your bank sold your money. Plot only is an 836 01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:03.440 intermediary form monemotional one bank to the other bank. Money moves from one debit 837 01:05:03.519 --> 01:05:08.679 card to another bank. Money gets to put that we're drawn from one debit 838 01:05:08.760 --> 01:05:12.840 card to another bank, another repot. Please moving that money, to the 839 01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:15.440 rest of my knowledge. Again, photon doesn't hold your money, So when 840 01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:19.320 you ask, we don't know. They are as solvent. If you have 841 01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:25.000 a platform that is floped that comes to be flo holding deposits, then I 842 01:05:25.039 --> 01:05:27.559 think you need to go back to that plantorm check. That is a real 843 01:05:27.679 --> 01:05:32.039 thing because the gain it is a legend that fatally has it doesn't hold the 844 01:05:32.119 --> 01:05:36.119 posits. It doesn't advertise its that he owns the posit. And you're talking 845 01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:40.639 about a different things. So that's a good question, that's a good clarification 846 01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:45.280 to make a sociateholders it just to make sure that people understand that the act 847 01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:51.559 of holding deposits itself is a license. The act of creating credits a license. 848 01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:59.119 A bank's license is to accept deposits. A deposit is different from if 849 01:05:59.119 --> 01:06:00.679 you give me money and I want to give it to a baker and you 850 01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:03.679 give me a center of car. That's not a deposit. So it's very 851 01:06:03.760 --> 01:06:09.599 very important that you need a license. I need to take those deposits into 852 01:06:09.679 --> 01:06:15.039 your own balance just what the license is in the bank. The deposits you 853 01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:20.360 make turn out to be the bank's assets, which it lends out and creates 854 01:06:20.599 --> 01:06:25.280 risk assets. But what a baka is saying is that flutter away. When 855 01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:29.159 you give them a put a deposit, they're not taking to the balance sheet, 856 01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:32.639 but they're transfiring it according to your instructions. So they don't have that 857 01:06:32.840 --> 01:06:36.679 license to hold deposits. So if you're gonna give money to a quote unquote 858 01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:43.639 Patricia, you have to find out what license they hold, because ultimately, 859 01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:45.199 when you guys are gonna go to curt do you know what I'm gonna tell 860 01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:50.719 you, we never told you we had this license. Most of it are 861 01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:56.840 gonna find that out very very I'm gonna tell you we never told you were 862 01:06:56.880 --> 01:06:59.880 a deposit. We're gonna say, oh, but you give me deposit slip 863 01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:03.639 you may They're gonna tell you we never told you, and that's where you're 864 01:07:03.679 --> 01:07:08.079 gonna be. That's why they make them put for fashions two shows. You 865 01:07:08.159 --> 01:07:11.559 have to put your license on the wall. You have to put what you 866 01:07:11.719 --> 01:07:15.000 do on the wall of the building. What services do you offer? Do 867 01:07:15.119 --> 01:07:18.840 you create credit, do you accept deposits? You have to put it up 868 01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:24.000 there. They don't have a license, don't deal. A license does not 869 01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:28.559 canceled out fraud. But at least they protects you just a bit there. 870 01:07:29.960 --> 01:07:33.719 Land last they mean is exactly to pint on it to hammer because people that 871 01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:40.119 are licenses defrauding people as well. Before I ask my question and thank you 872 01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:43.960 for that clarification, even though the reason that I longed them altogether is because 873 01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:46.760 at the end of the day, whether or not you are specifically a crypto 874 01:07:46.840 --> 01:07:49.920 company, there is still payments involved. This all at the end of the 875 01:07:50.039 --> 01:07:54.559 arpayment. This as you have to move funds from point eight to point pick. 876 01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:57.559 And then when you move funds this ones have to be moved on the 877 01:07:57.599 --> 01:08:00.440 network. And then there's she's attached and a lot of that. Even though 878 01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:13.679 specifically do not uh classify as a crypto company, there's still funds that needs 879 01:08:13.760 --> 01:08:18.039 to be moved. Right to Modern's point about the Namibia thing, I did 880 01:08:18.159 --> 01:08:25.119 hear of it. I think there's an initiative that is pushed by the ES 881 01:08:25.159 --> 01:08:32.479 Central banks and now maybe those in African country. It is quite a stable 882 01:08:33.039 --> 01:08:38.159 and they do things quite efficiently. So that's it. And they're also moving 883 01:08:38.239 --> 01:08:43.800 with their the I forget the currency, but they're also moving with the CBDC 884 01:08:44.199 --> 01:08:48.399 right, And that's all the whole tech thing to a books point. Right, 885 01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:53.760 So let me go later because there's a lot of hands. Let me 886 01:08:53.840 --> 01:08:56.720 not be like I'm hammering down Patricia. Right. Let's just say we have 887 01:08:57.079 --> 01:09:01.520 a car inc. A tech company that is just helping to teach people x 888 01:09:01.640 --> 01:09:06.520 y z, right, and you're saying you don't hold customer pond This is 889 01:09:06.560 --> 01:09:11.039 just hypotheticals at this point, right, And you've got a customer base, 890 01:09:11.119 --> 01:09:15.279 say a thousand and a million people, and we are depositing an x y 891 01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:19.359 z amount and your claim is you don't hold customer funds. You only do 892 01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:24.319 what we are users ask you to do. So My question is how do 893 01:09:24.439 --> 01:09:27.760 you move the funds that we give you, what systems do you use, 894 01:09:27.800 --> 01:09:30.039 what networks do you use? And how our defees are crude and all that, 895 01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:35.239 because this is I think the crowds of the issue not really being too 896 01:09:35.479 --> 01:09:40.960 technical. If you get my point of a worker, that's a different conversation. 897 01:09:41.279 --> 01:09:45.560 Yeah, Like if you're a crypto quality company and when you're when people 898 01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:51.279 into your app and they keep crypto in your own in your wallet on your 899 01:09:51.399 --> 01:09:57.479 own app, it's a different thing entirely for what we're discussing. It's completely 900 01:09:57.560 --> 01:10:01.239 different. You can you know, have phons crypto assets to post that are 901 01:10:01.399 --> 01:10:05.760 a wallet on finance or you could put it on your wallets on coin base 902 01:10:06.159 --> 01:10:12.000 or anywhere. It is the most important thing is you know it's it's somewhere, 903 01:10:12.439 --> 01:10:16.520 and then when you move it around to other network, with whichever blockchain 904 01:10:16.640 --> 01:10:20.720 network it goes through, it's It's an entirely different conversation. So I don't 905 01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:26.920 feel like it's too technical, it's just why exactly is a conversation leading to 906 01:10:27.319 --> 01:10:31.800 is it like when you move you know, crypto with a with likely network 907 01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:35.960 or with our viterium, Like what exactly is the point with that movement is 908 01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:40.880 it moving from one coin based waters or another coin based Water isn't moved like 909 01:10:41.039 --> 01:10:44.239 So that's the thing. But you know when many of this company, like 910 01:10:44.279 --> 01:10:48.720 the case we're talking about Patricia, it came is Patricia used the money, 911 01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:54.760 the crypto accets with the postive with Patricia on the Patricia network in terms of 912 01:10:55.319 --> 01:10:59.840 Patrick Patial wallets to precise, and that is where the issue is and so 913 01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:03.000 that is where you have conversations. The same thing applies with an FTX, 914 01:11:03.720 --> 01:11:08.439 and that is why you're having people who talk about you should be a self 915 01:11:08.520 --> 01:11:13.800 custodian for your cryptocurrency asset. You should have a wether light whether it's at 916 01:11:14.359 --> 01:11:16.600 storage or whatever it is, or you should be the one to you know, 917 01:11:17.520 --> 01:11:21.640 have access solar access to your cryptocurrency and wallet and when you need to 918 01:11:21.720 --> 01:11:26.159 make a transaction, you know how to do it by yourself. And that 919 01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:29.880 is a very technical aspect of it, and which is why people to not 920 01:11:30.079 --> 01:11:33.640 do it because it's too technical. The reason why cryptocurrency exchange exists in the 921 01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:39.199 first place is because the whole idea of being a self custudia for your own 922 01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:44.199 bitcoin wallet or whatever it is it's a little bit. It's quite technical, 923 01:11:44.279 --> 01:11:47.680 and it doesn't scale to the population that you'd expect. Imagine if you were 924 01:11:47.880 --> 01:11:53.319 your own sending pack like you had to be the one to work out with. 925 01:11:54.199 --> 01:11:58.479 Let's say you have three million or ten million there are in your Senate 926 01:11:58.560 --> 01:12:01.920 packing quotes world and you're working around ten millionaire and every time you want to 927 01:12:01.960 --> 01:12:06.239 make a transaction, you have to go through some crazy look to make it 928 01:12:06.359 --> 01:12:10.079 happen, and the other person has to figure out the way to accept that 929 01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:13.680 money from you. It's like it's complicated. That is where your money is 930 01:12:13.680 --> 01:12:15.159 in the bank. That is why your money is accessible in the way it 931 01:12:15.439 --> 01:12:20.560 is at the bank. That is what the cryptocurrency exchanges model themselves after to 932 01:12:20.680 --> 01:12:26.720 be a bank for crypto and unfortunately many of them have done poorly in terms 933 01:12:26.720 --> 01:12:30.479 of being custodians of wallets for everyday consumers. And that is what the issue 934 01:12:30.600 --> 01:12:33.560 is. It is not whatever it is that you're talking about. It is 935 01:12:33.640 --> 01:12:39.760 the fact that as replicas of banks, many of them are from poorly and 936 01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:45.439 they have lost tom phones, either true acts or true for and so that 937 01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:47.760 is where the issue is right now. It is not a case of you 938 01:12:47.840 --> 01:12:53.359 know, whatever network. We're talking about the safty case of who is what 939 01:12:53.720 --> 01:12:56.680 kind of platform has to be? Or sure, I say, how can 940 01:12:56.800 --> 01:13:01.720 cryptoconlity platforms operate better in our the kind of banking experience that every day people 941 01:13:02.439 --> 01:13:08.439 expect, which the irregular bank bank Chase Bard. It's a certain consonation, 942 01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:14.399 you know, the network and whatever. All right, I'm back, who 943 01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:17.039 Gods of hands up. I'm gonna make them speak just so just to get 944 01:13:17.079 --> 01:13:20.000 to clarify for the folks that are listening in about at if I if I'm 945 01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:26.319 wrong, I think that the whole idea of a crypto exchange is because they 946 01:13:26.359 --> 01:13:30.239 don't use Fiat. So a bank uses Fiat, it means that the currency 947 01:13:30.279 --> 01:13:34.560 of a bank, the cash the bank has, is legal tender across the 948 01:13:34.680 --> 01:13:40.079 board. So naira is legal tender. It's using a bar, it's using 949 01:13:40.199 --> 01:13:45.159 Kaduna is using legos. But if I have a tyrium, for instance, 950 01:13:45.319 --> 01:13:48.760 right, it's not legal tender anywhere perhaps in the world. So if I 951 01:13:49.039 --> 01:13:54.039 have a tium and I won't say polka or whatever it is, you then 952 01:13:54.159 --> 01:13:57.680 go to You are supposed to go to the exchange and say I want polka, 953 01:13:57.760 --> 01:14:01.159 I have aterium. I swap it out. That's what the exchange in 954 01:14:01.399 --> 01:14:05.800 paper is designed to do. But what happens is that the exchange becomes this 955 01:14:06.079 --> 01:14:12.359 avid trash mechanism where if I have fat, I can buy poker thinking that 956 01:14:12.439 --> 01:14:15.479 the price will go up then I can sell and get my cash back or 957 01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:20.520 get my my materium back later. So the exchange that becomes this big casino 958 01:14:20.920 --> 01:14:25.640 where I am looking to get in get out this. I plug in funds, 959 01:14:25.720 --> 01:14:30.279 I take out funds here, and I think it's that That's where the 960 01:14:30.399 --> 01:14:34.399 problem is. That it's not a it's gambling for lack of a better world. 961 01:14:34.640 --> 01:14:40.640 You go in there and you are hoping that volume momentum will push a 962 01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:45.840 particular non fiat currency up then can take your money back. So people are 963 01:14:45.960 --> 01:14:48.720 going there and not looking to transfer anything. Right that look into trade. 964 01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:55.359 So I actually give me a money to an investment house in quote without a 965 01:14:55.520 --> 01:14:59.079 license. I don't think anyone goes to a crypto house and says, oh, 966 01:14:59.119 --> 01:15:00.520 I want to transfer mont let me go to Patricia. No. I 967 01:15:00.560 --> 01:15:08.479 think they go there for the expectation of making a return or whatever deposit in 968 01:15:08.680 --> 01:15:12.399 quote that they are giving to Patricia. And when you're doing that you have 969 01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:15.880 to have the expectations you can lose one hundred percent or you can gain one 970 01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:21.680 hundred percent. We're not at the level of why've on hedging those deposit me 971 01:15:21.800 --> 01:15:27.079 to Patricia, if I go to the stock market, I can tell exactly 972 01:15:27.199 --> 01:15:30.279 what I would lose because I can hedge. Do we have that in the 973 01:15:31.239 --> 01:15:35.439 exchange markets in Nigeria, I mean not in the US in Nigeria, so 974 01:15:35.479 --> 01:15:39.279 it's a very difficult market. But I just want to put that point out 975 01:15:39.319 --> 01:15:41.600 there. Living them really quick. You're want the own mutant says, something, 976 01:15:41.640 --> 01:15:47.479 go ahead if I moved to Zilo. Yeah, since there's a space 977 01:15:49.600 --> 01:15:53.479 first of all, and I will give you good your relation for you to 978 01:15:53.560 --> 01:16:00.199 spend your nineteen jus kind of talking about you for eleven thousand years forty and 979 01:16:00.319 --> 01:16:03.640 for the universtors in the crypto space. And he did not regulation. In 980 01:16:03.720 --> 01:16:09.359 fact, he ran out of the country. So it's just like you don't 981 01:16:09.359 --> 01:16:11.840 have to be where you don't need to have perations to be your ware. 982 01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:15.000 You don't need to go. You can't go to G forty fourty. So 983 01:16:15.199 --> 01:16:17.359 it depends on this oublication of the case and thegether. I get it, 984 01:16:17.840 --> 01:16:23.479 but I think the interesting thing is that it's very important for us to know 985 01:16:23.600 --> 01:16:28.840 that the X marketing Naginia has really pushed when it has not just for space 986 01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:32.479 bulleting for age reasons, because it's very easy to get totter for example, 987 01:16:32.479 --> 01:16:36.000 to look at the top market. Our fan need to get better. It's 988 01:16:36.039 --> 01:16:41.640 true the packet you see the regulars using that for transaction. So I took 989 01:16:41.960 --> 01:16:45.680 that. In fact, I know a number of Naginas that really needs no 990 01:16:45.640 --> 01:16:50.319 constating for mob is through the pwo P to buy shares to enforce their family. 991 01:16:50.520 --> 01:16:55.840 And that's why CP has been completed. That banks are not getting West 992 01:16:55.880 --> 01:16:58.720 time I was not getting and they need to use ride said this, and 993 01:16:58.760 --> 01:17:02.600 so I don't want to be better and others to chuge that do we have 994 01:17:02.760 --> 01:17:06.479 returned in Africa? Because you know, I tak as gunders and a god 995 01:17:06.560 --> 01:17:12.760 species and I look at numbers and sometimes it's exctly the word value in the 996 01:17:12.920 --> 01:17:16.960 company Stripe and evolution and particiondoers. It took a cut of four five billiondis 997 01:17:17.159 --> 01:17:20.359 and now it's work approtic beyonders. If you look at you, if you 998 01:17:20.399 --> 01:17:27.319 invested when the infections you want right now we have this tety thousand dollars if 999 01:17:27.359 --> 01:17:30.520 you look at that cart, if that cat is the prof want to do 1000 01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:36.399 recept onto the world listed on the nastar or we use very man quite profitable 1001 01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:43.800 and the company at some point had a very interesting valuation as us to first 1002 01:17:43.960 --> 01:17:53.800 begs like dollars. Now the company has around around like it's team doing more 1003 01:17:53.880 --> 01:17:58.119 than the hype of price. The question is don't we see that raising money 1004 01:17:58.319 --> 01:18:00.920 in dollars for many of this com in this Africa. It's even it's advantage 1005 01:18:01.119 --> 01:18:04.600 when you know, as your market is Africa, for example, you also 1006 01:18:04.640 --> 01:18:11.600 look at your fan that you can see you see over the years because I 1007 01:18:11.680 --> 01:18:15.960 invested in becose I I invested in? Someone is saying yes, actually that 1008 01:18:16.680 --> 01:18:20.560 most of these founders if they are if they have a strong business, if 1009 01:18:20.600 --> 01:18:25.399 they have a strong person in there, the other person has a very strong 1010 01:18:25.439 --> 01:18:29.560 business. And that's why you see compos like Bicky, First Foot Away Play 1011 01:18:29.600 --> 01:18:34.079 start doing very well because we have a kind of very balance structured team. 1012 01:18:34.199 --> 01:18:38.199 Why are we're looking at all those things because you know, I don't know 1013 01:18:38.359 --> 01:18:41.199 us to look at this, but I'm just give realizing that all these things 1014 01:18:41.239 --> 01:18:45.960 because we are really shouting if those companies could cut their evolutions that have because 1015 01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:49.319 I don't see how you be yes, you can say it's a bank being 1016 01:18:49.560 --> 01:18:55.800 what's lesson having begond us, but they made for the beyonds a fear family 1017 01:18:55.840 --> 01:19:00.119 of four millions appear an really that they're going to give me in you, 1018 01:19:00.279 --> 01:19:04.800 but that the lost there's one family has put lost six pillon there in twenty 1019 01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:08.600 twenty one. You know, these are things that we need to add this 1020 01:19:08.720 --> 01:19:12.640 conversation. And that's why I said that we need to start enlightened people because 1021 01:19:12.840 --> 01:19:17.199 primary volations are for suphicated is very very tricky, and you as not through 1022 01:19:17.239 --> 01:19:24.760 the covert investors to this because all of distance can the proper don't distance at 1023 01:19:25.279 --> 01:19:27.720 And that's when when it comes to the markets, you see lot of starts 1024 01:19:27.880 --> 01:19:33.279 covered out because from the likes of Google, Facebook and the toteneration told me 1025 01:19:33.399 --> 01:19:39.880 it's really comfort to see any successful pay company that listed and you adding a 1026 01:19:40.359 --> 01:19:43.920 very popular people company has lost this volution, but a mother have to say 1027 01:19:43.920 --> 01:19:48.520 it. So those are things I want to actually say. That's means good, 1028 01:19:48.600 --> 01:19:51.880 good, good context, good cons Go ahead and we'll have the guys 1029 01:19:51.880 --> 01:19:57.439 speak. Go ahead, all right, I didn't have to add one short 1030 01:19:57.560 --> 01:20:01.880 time. Oh actually, okay, do you know what about before you go 1031 01:20:02.199 --> 01:20:06.640 let me zeelon is gonna speak ze loon or do what's hoting them? Will 1032 01:20:06.720 --> 01:20:11.279 let you go So Zealand and go ahead answer your questions? Yeah, z 1033 01:20:11.560 --> 01:20:15.399 go ahead. Yes, I just would like thank you for letting me speak. 1034 01:20:15.439 --> 01:20:17.520 I just would like to break this discussion into a pan African level, 1035 01:20:18.760 --> 01:20:25.279 and being an African entrepreneur that went through the phase of that having access to 1036 01:20:25.399 --> 01:20:29.760 capital and finally found a way to get capital and then finally found a way 1037 01:20:29.800 --> 01:20:33.319 to scale and go at the international level, I would like to speak of 1038 01:20:33.479 --> 01:20:39.399 what I know, and what I know is that the African projects and African 1039 01:20:39.479 --> 01:20:45.119 entrepreneurs usually are started for capital. They don't have the opportunity to raise definitely 1040 01:20:45.239 --> 01:20:53.840 not locally because locally they're basically constrained with whatever local liquidity is and allocation to 1041 01:20:54.840 --> 01:21:00.359 enter in general, and that's extremely low. And and and internationally they don't 1042 01:21:00.359 --> 01:21:03.920 get any interaction because unfortunately today if you want to raise serious money, you 1043 01:21:04.000 --> 01:21:11.239 have to go to San Francisco. We have few guys that did incubators that 1044 01:21:11.560 --> 01:21:15.319 that we've you've been talking about, and you mentioned but these are fine between 1045 01:21:15.960 --> 01:21:21.479 and and my advice would be as follow. The first issue that African entrepreneurs 1046 01:21:21.520 --> 01:21:27.279 suffer from and that today can be resolved is to be able to raise capital 1047 01:21:27.399 --> 01:21:33.520 at the global level. And that is definitely that if definitely solved la the 1048 01:21:33.640 --> 01:21:39.720 ability to raise via digital assets. When I talk about crypto, I talk 1049 01:21:39.720 --> 01:21:44.319 about a mean to raise money, not as an investment or doing products or 1050 01:21:44.399 --> 01:21:46.760 doing companies do in the crypto space. I'm talking about it basically as a 1051 01:21:46.840 --> 01:21:54.399 tool for capitalization. This allows African entrepreneurs to address a global, global audience 1052 01:21:55.199 --> 01:22:00.479 from from from a capital introduction standpoint, and it allows them to access at 1053 01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:05.680 the same at the same at the same level as an Indian entrepreneur or any 1054 01:22:05.720 --> 01:22:11.119 other entrepreneurs. Indian entrepreneur, by the way, have been doing extremely well 1055 01:22:11.439 --> 01:22:15.840 in using this tool in order to raise money for whatever startup, whatever problem 1056 01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:20.399 is there, startup solving. Once you raise money via digital assets, because 1057 01:22:20.640 --> 01:22:26.720 the infrastructure, the the the underlying infrastructure allows you to do that, then 1058 01:22:27.399 --> 01:22:30.520 you can convert it. Obviously that's your runaway and then you convert it to 1059 01:22:30.560 --> 01:22:34.000 stable coins immediately. You don't take any speculation, you're not there too that's 1060 01:22:34.039 --> 01:22:39.439 that your crypto holdings. That's not your crypto runaway, that's not your personal 1061 01:22:39.520 --> 01:22:44.439 holdings. That's a runaway for you to solve one specific problem for which people 1062 01:22:44.720 --> 01:22:48.159 that don't know you internationally as have given you money. And that's again I 1063 01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:55.119 came back again to the to the to the African UH to an African culture 1064 01:22:55.199 --> 01:22:59.760 of entrepreneurship. Is important to show very good examples of that because the digital 1065 01:23:00.039 --> 01:23:04.319 that's obviously you're raising from people internationally, so there is no international law that 1066 01:23:04.479 --> 01:23:08.439 applies. It is obviously legal law if you do for they can go after 1067 01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:12.840 you locally, et cetera. But you know fine between so so a lot 1068 01:23:12.840 --> 01:23:16.039 of entrepreneurs attempted just to think that as the retirement money and stop doing whatever 1069 01:23:16.079 --> 01:23:21.239 they do it because it's tough to build a company and and so once you 1070 01:23:21.359 --> 01:23:26.680 raise the money, you just converted into whatever stable coin you converted it into 1071 01:23:26.680 --> 01:23:29.760 your local currency, and that's basically your runaway to do the uniqu core. 1072 01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:38.560 I really encourage every entrepreneur that has issue access in capital to prioritize the way 1073 01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:44.720 of of of raising money digitally from a from A from a as a digital 1074 01:23:44.760 --> 01:23:48.000 asset using the digital asset infrastructure in order to do so and address in a 1075 01:23:48.039 --> 01:23:53.520 global public and not to waste time and I'm sorry maybe this is a little 1076 01:23:53.560 --> 01:23:58.079 bit of polymic, but not to waste time with local incubators. Local incubators, 1077 01:23:58.079 --> 01:24:01.560 they usually have political agendas, usually have subsidies, They usually have things 1078 01:24:01.600 --> 01:24:05.760 that are not productive for him to get the money in his company and move 1079 01:24:05.800 --> 01:24:09.000 forward. And that's all I wanted to say, thank you very much for 1080 01:24:09.039 --> 01:24:12.960 allowing me to do something. All right, so about a mission that's several 1081 01:24:13.079 --> 01:24:16.439 holpe operations. So maybe let's have you comment what you've heard and then we'll 1082 01:24:16.640 --> 01:24:21.279 let you go fast. All right. I guess I really don't know what 1083 01:24:21.600 --> 01:24:27.039 I know what to say about the second question about this access. I mean, 1084 01:24:27.159 --> 01:24:30.520 they are like they're doing some in trust and use cases for US induced 1085 01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:34.119 access to raise fund them for a company. And you know there are times 1086 01:24:34.119 --> 01:24:39.279 when people were big on I CEOs initial kind offerends and you know we have 1087 01:24:39.680 --> 01:24:44.039 the next experiences or mixed results with them. But you know, so everybody 1088 01:24:44.279 --> 01:24:49.520 is their own. That'll be fine. The question outstanding is on about how 1089 01:24:49.880 --> 01:24:58.199 much dollar raises can have impact on companies and we are not and how does 1090 01:24:58.319 --> 01:25:01.079 avunations tend to be very popular, and should I say, yeah, it's 1091 01:25:01.359 --> 01:25:06.640 been very it's been in flux in terms of how these companies are performed. 1092 01:25:06.920 --> 01:25:11.279 I think that is a general issue, to be honest, because when you 1093 01:25:11.319 --> 01:25:15.800 look at the examples, you know, Reumally mentioned he talked about instat Carts, 1094 01:25:16.000 --> 01:25:18.920 which did this IPO. Again, the stack card had not been profitable 1095 01:25:18.960 --> 01:25:25.920 for a while, and it was profitable significantly last year simply because mostly because 1096 01:25:25.960 --> 01:25:30.399 of the task of tax implications. There was a big bomb in its profit 1097 01:25:31.279 --> 01:25:35.640 because of it got a windfall from taxing and stuff like that. But overall, 1098 01:25:35.880 --> 01:25:41.439 it's been a tough run for publicly traded companies that used to be startup 1099 01:25:41.520 --> 01:25:45.399 studying recently. I think that is a general issue for many of these companies. 1100 01:25:46.079 --> 01:25:51.119 The market sentiments since strangerly One has turned relatively negative, and so any 1101 01:25:51.199 --> 01:25:55.960 company that wants to go public, that wants to raise funding has had to 1102 01:25:56.079 --> 01:26:00.840 deal with difficult conversations with investors, has had to deal with, you know, 1103 01:26:00.920 --> 01:26:04.319 the possibilities that they will take a haircut on their evaluations, which again 1104 01:26:04.359 --> 01:26:10.159 evaluations are very subjective, and so the tends are different, and that is 1105 01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:15.800 affecting how these businesses think about their finance. I would say there are many 1106 01:26:15.880 --> 01:26:19.600 companies that are doing well. They are doing well in the context that they 1107 01:26:19.640 --> 01:26:26.319 are britten in the reason why their evaluations may not pop to weigh these other 1108 01:26:26.439 --> 01:26:30.000 companies. It's on different levels, Like you can't even really tell on your 1109 01:26:30.039 --> 01:26:32.640 own because sometimes you're not to do room with this guy. You don't know 1110 01:26:33.079 --> 01:26:38.479 what they're discussing. You don't know how much equity the new investor who wants 1111 01:26:38.520 --> 01:26:42.640 to give them a twuity billion dollar valuation wants in return. Maybe they're want 1112 01:26:42.720 --> 01:26:45.279 to own ninety percent of the company, and the CEO said, no, 1113 01:26:45.680 --> 01:26:47.760 hold on to what we have. We don't know for a fact. And 1114 01:26:47.920 --> 01:26:51.560 so maybe that if they had said yes to ninety percent, they would have 1115 01:26:51.640 --> 01:26:56.239 gotten in two hundred billion dollar valuation and they will be the most valuable company 1116 01:26:56.279 --> 01:26:59.720 in the world. But they can't because maybe you know, in terms of 1117 01:27:00.079 --> 01:27:03.600 they do the source and negotiation, it just doesn't favor than the way they 1118 01:27:03.680 --> 01:27:09.520 expect. And so there are a bunch of issues why these companies that look 1119 01:27:09.600 --> 01:27:13.319 like they're doing well do not get the evaluations that they deserve. And so 1120 01:27:13.439 --> 01:27:17.399 that is different. That is a different conversation generally, I do not think 1121 01:27:17.520 --> 01:27:24.399 dollar raises are inherently bad. Like we're talking about companies that are perated in 1122 01:27:24.720 --> 01:27:30.399 difficult macroeconomic environments in Africa, like in Nigeria, you raise one million dollars 1123 01:27:30.479 --> 01:27:33.760 last year, a million dollars last year in official rate was less than five 1124 01:27:33.800 --> 01:27:40.239 hundred there actually dollars today's it's approaching in thousands are on the official course, 1125 01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:45.199 and so that makes it difficult for you as a company when you want to 1126 01:27:45.359 --> 01:27:49.479 justify the valuation you had when Denier was treating less than less than five lliond 1127 01:27:49.479 --> 01:27:54.760 are. Now you have to your revenue has to be four types, not 1128 01:27:54.840 --> 01:27:58.439 even double. It has to be way more, has to grow way more 1129 01:27:58.720 --> 01:28:04.119 faster than it is with the horizon that you had when for a five to 1130 01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:11.399 famary actually dollar. It's a different macroeconomic environment. You're in a difficult position. 1131 01:28:11.960 --> 01:28:15.159 That is not something you created for yourself. You did not see it 1132 01:28:15.239 --> 01:28:18.119 coming. You could as in it coming. But who that guest that the 1133 01:28:18.239 --> 01:28:26.680 narra would depreciate from four hundred naro to a thousand are actually in generary very 1134 01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:29.720 few people who could have said it. With your food just everybody could have 1135 01:28:29.840 --> 01:28:32.439 said it as speculation and said, you know the nara is going to fall 1136 01:28:32.560 --> 01:28:38.039 to two thousand air but you can't as for a fact. You can't say 1137 01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:40.239 that you don't know for a fact that that is going to happen. You 1138 01:28:40.319 --> 01:28:43.920 can speculate, but you can see the future. And so that is a 1139 01:28:44.359 --> 01:28:47.720 challenge that many of these companies are facing. You have in macroeconomic environment that 1140 01:28:47.920 --> 01:28:53.640 is not favorable to you, one that you cannot also control, and you 1141 01:28:53.760 --> 01:28:59.039 can see the future. If you decide to raise money locally from naira based 1142 01:28:59.159 --> 01:29:02.479 investors, you might have to deal with stranger in terms. Maybe they want 1143 01:29:02.560 --> 01:29:06.119 more equity for every nire that it gives you. Maybe you don't want that. 1144 01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:12.119 Maybe you want investors who have higher quality in terms of the ability to 1145 01:29:12.199 --> 01:29:15.800 help you expands with different countries. Maybe those are the things that you want 1146 01:29:15.880 --> 01:29:18.760 to have at the back of your mind when you look at investors and how 1147 01:29:18.880 --> 01:29:24.800 you want to raise money from them. So it's an entirely complicated dynamic when 1148 01:29:24.840 --> 01:29:29.279 it comes to fund raising evaluation and who the investors that are giving your money 1149 01:29:29.319 --> 01:29:33.640 are. And so I do not think you know raising in dollars inerity bad. 1150 01:29:33.720 --> 01:29:36.920 I do also think if you raise local if it's a bad thing. 1151 01:29:38.359 --> 01:29:42.000 It all depends on what you're objective for the business and the founders are. 1152 01:29:42.439 --> 01:29:45.479 If it aligns with whoever you to investor you want to go, then it's 1153 01:29:45.520 --> 01:29:50.319 okay. I think as long as the business gets the objective that he wants 1154 01:29:50.720 --> 01:29:55.279 with either found raised mechanism, I think they're okay, to be honest. 1155 01:29:55.399 --> 01:29:59.159 The one thing that is complicated though, is if you raise money in the 1156 01:29:59.359 --> 01:30:02.199 r it would that help you grow to what you want to grow? If 1157 01:30:02.239 --> 01:30:04.600 you're raising million dollars, what do it help you grow to where you want 1158 01:30:04.600 --> 01:30:09.159 to grow? And you know, ever, I think that we've talked about 1159 01:30:09.199 --> 01:30:15.039 in terms of health, valuation, handicaps a company's it's a challenging topic in 1160 01:30:15.119 --> 01:30:19.600 the sense that if a company is worth three billion dollars last year or four 1161 01:30:19.680 --> 01:30:23.960 billion dollars last year and again, so if I say that, I would 1162 01:30:23.960 --> 01:30:28.159 say, we have very few unicorns, So I don't understand why we're taking 1163 01:30:28.239 --> 01:30:31.159 it out on them so hard. Based on I understanding, I think officially 1164 01:30:31.600 --> 01:30:35.680 we have less than six unicoms on the African continent, and many of them 1165 01:30:35.720 --> 01:30:39.680 are trying their best. In terms of the micro commuic environment that you are 1166 01:30:39.720 --> 01:30:45.960 facing to justify that valuation that we have. And it's tough because again, 1167 01:30:45.720 --> 01:30:48.439 nobody saw what was going to happen in Ghana. You could expect it, 1168 01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:53.000 but you couldn't say it as a fact that Ghana's economy would you know, 1169 01:30:53.119 --> 01:30:57.760 be so bad that bond holders would see, you know, forty percent haircuts 1170 01:30:57.840 --> 01:31:00.399 on the amount of money that they're given to the government the years nobody could 1171 01:31:00.399 --> 01:31:04.560 have seen. You know. The can economy has also had its own short 1172 01:31:04.600 --> 01:31:10.680 evaluation, you know, with the with the change rates slighting a bit same 1173 01:31:10.760 --> 01:31:14.920 in Nigeria, so which has come poorly for many of the companies that operate 1174 01:31:15.000 --> 01:31:20.359 here. So I would say that macroeconomic realities are problem for every company investing 1175 01:31:20.479 --> 01:31:25.479 and doing business on the continent. It is not specific to startups. It 1176 01:31:25.600 --> 01:31:30.760 doesn't favor startops per sea, then does it put them at a huge disadvantage 1177 01:31:30.800 --> 01:31:33.920 compared to any of our company on the continent. What is there as a 1178 01:31:34.039 --> 01:31:40.960 fact is that this environment is a challenging one and companies are struggling whether or 1179 01:31:41.000 --> 01:31:45.319 not they will survive the current funding winter is a different composition entirely. But 1180 01:31:45.560 --> 01:31:49.960 to be honest, I think when people understand what the climate looks like, 1181 01:31:50.439 --> 01:31:55.640 and they forecast the growth for the companies that they're investing in based on the 1182 01:31:55.800 --> 01:32:01.119 level of the structure economically that's happening in their various markets. I think that 1183 01:32:01.199 --> 01:32:05.560 would help them make better judgments in terms of how they deploy money into these 1184 01:32:05.600 --> 01:32:12.920 companies. But I do not think valuation is the dollar valuation that they're getting 1185 01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:16.359 is destructive. I think the investors are smart people, the founders are smart 1186 01:32:16.399 --> 01:32:21.079 people. They've put the dollar tag behind the company that fits whatever objective that 1187 01:32:21.159 --> 01:32:25.199 they had. It's up to the company to justify it, and if it 1188 01:32:25.279 --> 01:32:28.039 fails, it fails. In the case of that, that was what happened. 1189 01:32:29.920 --> 01:32:33.199 Nobody was talking about how much how much valuation DASH was worth at the 1190 01:32:33.239 --> 01:32:38.880 time of collapse. It was is a popular statistic, over eighteen million dollars, 1191 01:32:38.920 --> 01:32:41.840 and it has failed in less than four years. And everybody who is 1192 01:32:41.920 --> 01:32:45.119 involved is right now licking their owns, trying to figure out what went wrong, 1193 01:32:45.479 --> 01:32:48.600 trying to figure out how to avoid the same mistake in the future. 1194 01:32:49.199 --> 01:32:53.720 And that has an effect that the valuation of every other company in the market, 1195 01:32:53.800 --> 01:32:57.600 every other person is going to learn from these mistakes and find a way 1196 01:32:57.720 --> 01:33:00.840 to match up to the reality of the market that they're operating in. Besides 1197 01:33:00.880 --> 01:33:06.079 that, I don't think I don't think we have to really be overly critical 1198 01:33:06.920 --> 01:33:13.520 of the companies and expect them to, you know, not be the way 1199 01:33:13.560 --> 01:33:16.560 that is that you know, that respectly that they should. I think they 1200 01:33:16.600 --> 01:33:20.239 would do what is best for them and if it doesn't work work, journalists 1201 01:33:20.279 --> 01:33:25.640 will chronicle these companies as they rise on the floor and we would also try 1202 01:33:25.680 --> 01:33:29.760 to find out where each of them had their own unique videos as a business. 1203 01:33:30.039 --> 01:33:32.279 The great, great, great, great great session with you, I 1204 01:33:32.359 --> 01:33:35.239 mean, we don't have enough time. As you can see, there are 1205 01:33:35.279 --> 01:33:39.399 lots of folks that want to talk and some folks that asked me not to 1206 01:33:39.479 --> 01:33:43.119 shut down the space, but just the one have a few questions and thans 1207 01:33:43.199 --> 01:33:45.560 you want to leave. Let me ask you my last question that I can 1208 01:33:45.640 --> 01:33:50.760 just you go, just quick one. Do you think it would be beneficial 1209 01:33:50.920 --> 01:33:57.840 to menser economy and to generate exchange rate if we're to allow the crypto guys 1210 01:33:57.960 --> 01:34:03.399 get licensed and allow the banks to receive cryptos, be some costody arrangement going 1211 01:34:03.479 --> 01:34:08.680 on, so in sure the crypto guys are banned from the general financial sector. 1212 01:34:09.119 --> 01:34:14.840 Would you think would be beneficial if we bring back crypto those folks into 1213 01:34:14.880 --> 01:34:17.479 the nageral banking sector, just like fintech do. What do you what's your 1214 01:34:17.560 --> 01:34:23.399 take on that last question. I mean, it's it's a it's a conversation 1215 01:34:23.439 --> 01:34:29.479 about utility and a conversation about value. The land germ financial system the way 1216 01:34:29.600 --> 01:34:32.760 immedially has conditioned us. I think that's the right way to look at it. 1217 01:34:33.439 --> 01:34:40.840 Since twenty sixteen in particular, has been such a very hostile environment when 1218 01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:45.159 it comes to monetary policies to support how thenerror, you know, should trade 1219 01:34:45.640 --> 01:34:48.319 and so he has, you know, he has, you know, left 1220 01:34:48.479 --> 01:34:55.920 a very ridiculous precedent for any other person that has come after him, and 1221 01:34:56.079 --> 01:35:00.199 so you've seen a level of hostility with anybody who wants to even't being involved 1222 01:35:00.239 --> 01:35:06.119 international payments over the last six years. It's unfair. It's been destructive and 1223 01:35:06.319 --> 01:35:11.239 we're only now beginning to understand how much destruction he has caused to the n 1224 01:35:11.319 --> 01:35:15.680 joint economy. And so I would say for that question, it is a 1225 01:35:15.800 --> 01:35:24.399 question of how is the government going to embrace it fully because again, the 1226 01:35:24.920 --> 01:35:29.840 one thing to understand is Nigeria has had currency controls for a long long time. 1227 01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:32.119 Even before me, I feel like they were currency controls to ensure that 1228 01:35:32.199 --> 01:35:36.399 the Nioto dollar exchange was stable. What has happened in the last six years 1229 01:35:36.600 --> 01:35:43.319 is the rate of that gap has accelerated so much that it's no longer sustainable. 1230 01:35:43.399 --> 01:35:45.760 And again the rest of the economy has just been messed up with the 1231 01:35:45.880 --> 01:35:50.119 dual reality of miphi aquire. So that's a general issue right now. Do 1232 01:35:50.279 --> 01:35:56.640 I think that opling of the cryptal space in Nigeria would help? I would 1233 01:35:56.720 --> 01:36:03.000 say if the government is able to find a way to ensure that cryptocurrency plays 1234 01:36:03.119 --> 01:36:09.039 nicely with the Nigera financial system, I think there might be some value there. 1235 01:36:09.680 --> 01:36:14.359 For example, if you're able to send US City from the US to 1236 01:36:14.760 --> 01:36:18.359 Nigeria, and that usity you can move it from your uisity worlds into niger 1237 01:36:18.520 --> 01:36:24.720 bankcounts and the city can track that that transactionally have legal it was not fraudulent. 1238 01:36:25.279 --> 01:36:30.560 It's something that could be valuable for an economy like Nigeria where we have 1239 01:36:30.600 --> 01:36:36.079 a huge or growing the asporat that is sending tens of billions of dollars back 1240 01:36:36.119 --> 01:36:41.760 to the country and they're looking for a fairly decent stable way to send this 1241 01:36:41.920 --> 01:36:45.000 money. And so I think if the cyby in itself can have like full 1242 01:36:45.119 --> 01:36:51.399 confidence that it can legally track how funs move, whether it's fiat or crypto, 1243 01:36:53.199 --> 01:36:56.760 I feel like it will be valuable to the rest of the economy generally. 1244 01:36:57.560 --> 01:37:00.960 I do not think that it will be destructive if the cybian is not 1245 01:37:00.079 --> 01:37:04.840 able to guarantee or ensure that crypto plays nicely with the rest of the financial 1246 01:37:04.880 --> 01:37:09.840 system. What you would have is there averse where people would look for a 1247 01:37:09.920 --> 01:37:14.840 way to flush out money out of the country legally and illegally using crypto, 1248 01:37:15.199 --> 01:37:19.079 and that would be detrimental to Nigeria entirely. And so that that would be 1249 01:37:19.159 --> 01:37:24.279 my take on crypto. If it's able to track have funds move, And 1250 01:37:24.399 --> 01:37:29.840 again by track, I don't mean destroy the privacy that comes to crypto. 1251 01:37:30.159 --> 01:37:34.399 I simply need be able to ensure that the cryptocurrency exchange is involved, are 1252 01:37:34.479 --> 01:37:40.760 able to provide proper kyc know your customer and anti fraud checks to ensure that 1253 01:37:40.960 --> 01:37:45.000 a Yao boy, for example, doesn't simply move one hundred million dollars from 1254 01:37:45.000 --> 01:37:47.840 the US to Nigeria and that money is not going to be traced in any 1255 01:37:47.920 --> 01:37:51.479 sense or form. If the cylian is able to ensure that that is ha 1256 01:37:51.720 --> 01:37:57.520 me where you're able to track fund movements legally and a lot of people move 1257 01:37:57.600 --> 01:38:02.119 money legally again, then I think might be somebody. I just got word 1258 01:38:02.199 --> 01:38:08.039 from somebody else about to me. I think I have about twenty minutes left 1259 01:38:08.520 --> 01:38:11.840 before I jump off. Super atalment is great, so let us let us 1260 01:38:11.960 --> 01:38:15.000 front little of the guys. They're no worries. I've got I am Danielle. 1261 01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:19.119 Danielle, you've got the floor. Leta's go ahead more than I see 1262 01:38:19.520 --> 01:38:23.960 daniel go ahead. Yes, sir, I think it's left to daniel. 1263 01:38:24.279 --> 01:38:27.239 I just wanted to touch on the privacy issue quickly if I could jump on 1264 01:38:27.359 --> 01:38:31.399 this because of what Apobaca has raised. Right, So this is the narrative 1265 01:38:31.479 --> 01:38:39.520 that most people who want crypto adoption in Nigeria push, where they say the 1266 01:38:39.640 --> 01:38:45.039 government should ky see them or give them ability to have themselves kys st that 1267 01:38:45.119 --> 01:38:49.720 they can move on. But the sad reality is most of the people who 1268 01:38:49.800 --> 01:38:56.760 really understand how to use the technology choose to do so in a non KYS 1269 01:38:57.000 --> 01:39:00.359 fashion. They are like the real people that have huge world so therefore they 1270 01:39:00.439 --> 01:39:10.880 go for other technology to that ensure that privacy, privacy or attribute or advantage. 1271 01:39:11.279 --> 01:39:15.960 What are your takes on people who choose to not want to use KIS, 1272 01:39:16.159 --> 01:39:20.600 because that is really what the technology is about. Are you against people 1273 01:39:20.640 --> 01:39:26.399 who are pushing for non KIC use of the technology or people must k I 1274 01:39:26.439 --> 01:39:33.239 s themselves so that the government can rackle forward. Sorry, I wanted to 1275 01:39:33.399 --> 01:39:40.079 talk on I wanted to add up that thatch mand finance this year if I 1276 01:39:40.239 --> 01:39:45.800 second one not them to band take advice nager customers to avoids most popular destiny. 1277 01:39:46.680 --> 01:39:54.039 Now we also need to understand that you see I'm not enough times I 1278 01:39:54.079 --> 01:39:57.199 always work through because first people think I may see be a contract and division 1279 01:39:57.199 --> 01:40:02.199 is because look at pains from the site. Now the CPN, it's not 1280 01:40:02.560 --> 01:40:09.760 just a critical about crypto the central banks and their cover. My ch is 1281 01:40:09.800 --> 01:40:14.840 busier account. I go a message the last last plot that if I easy 1282 01:40:14.880 --> 01:40:19.800 any crypto transaction that can be closed, I have accous in other judicis that 1283 01:40:20.000 --> 01:40:26.800 with popular banks that these are countries that they have So there's a limittive between 1284 01:40:26.880 --> 01:40:29.920 banks and crypto space. But I know where I can just cope from what 1285 01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:35.279 you see. The trickiest that to be market for example, has become now 1286 01:40:35.439 --> 01:40:43.000 has become systemic important. And because it's not all that you shown that you 1287 01:40:43.079 --> 01:40:49.800 are, it's very difficult for the CPN right now to interfere with a scursiation 1288 01:40:49.960 --> 01:40:55.439 that prove fast and you said that they don't have anything loose with that yet. 1289 01:40:56.039 --> 01:41:00.239 Also r just talk about utility. We have a unity kid in the 1290 01:41:00.359 --> 01:41:03.840 ctal space behind banks like the central banks are the area is working with Excel 1291 01:41:04.359 --> 01:41:10.199 network in terms of this kind of strift transaction because it's faster than swift. 1292 01:41:10.640 --> 01:41:14.680 So we have CREP classes that do those things and there's a time you pe 1293 01:41:15.159 --> 01:41:19.079 and the money clad. Also because I covered as to be twenty twenty one, 1294 01:41:19.640 --> 01:41:25.960 they had an adaptation with the help view because of the bank going forward, 1295 01:41:26.720 --> 01:41:34.399 I think what is needed year is a quasive financial system way if you 1296 01:41:34.640 --> 01:41:42.359 know you has really bring in discuss like what the British or you aline policies 1297 01:41:42.399 --> 01:41:46.600 that will attracked liquidity to the systems. What am I saying rather I'm baling 1298 01:41:47.479 --> 01:41:54.840 crypto. I feel like they should have been a case of in case of 1299 01:41:54.920 --> 01:41:57.720 okay, if you want to deal with the banks, you must have set 1300 01:41:57.800 --> 01:42:00.960 in the post. In most misearching metrics because something like, for example, 1301 01:42:01.319 --> 01:42:04.560 they were willing to go, they were willing to register. That's what they 1302 01:42:04.600 --> 01:42:06.960 did for us. That's what they're trying to do. That's what they did 1303 01:42:08.000 --> 01:42:12.199 in Japan. So back to the question is that I think we need to 1304 01:42:12.239 --> 01:42:15.560 look in was that it's not just these guys want to bad. I don't 1305 01:42:15.560 --> 01:42:18.159 see them with the fact that it is. No, it's not. It's 1306 01:42:18.199 --> 01:42:23.840 not that they're just bad. These are days between the United States to the 1307 01:42:23.920 --> 01:42:29.920 country to grow that can afford to know the backet that because they had reserve 1308 01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:33.199 currency, many countries don't have put out that luxury. So I wanted to 1309 01:42:33.239 --> 01:42:40.159 add that the club Okay, yeah, go ahead of the work. Sorry, 1310 01:42:42.600 --> 01:42:45.039 because mons you want to take, you want to belong this before I 1311 01:42:45.119 --> 01:42:48.039 let you go more to ask this question. It is going to be your 1312 01:42:48.119 --> 01:42:54.720 course for about I think fifteen minutes. Now. Yeah, I was quickly 1313 01:42:54.760 --> 01:43:00.119 forgot what the first question was. The pacy, Yes, piracy, I 1314 01:43:00.079 --> 01:43:05.039 would say, yeah, crypto. Crypto basically gives freedom, financial freedom to 1315 01:43:05.119 --> 01:43:11.479 people. And you know, there's been good actors that have leveraged that freedom 1316 01:43:11.720 --> 01:43:15.199 that you know, cryptocurrency brings, and there's been a lot of bad actors 1317 01:43:15.640 --> 01:43:19.439 who have misused it and created bigger problems for everybody involved. And again, 1318 01:43:19.800 --> 01:43:24.720 you know, Nigeria is a country that has a cyber and problem with so 1319 01:43:24.880 --> 01:43:30.079 many our boys who cause trouble for us financially, abroad and locally, and 1320 01:43:30.239 --> 01:43:34.560 so we have to look at our market from that context to say, if 1321 01:43:34.640 --> 01:43:41.760 we do support a pro privacy environment for cryptocurrency in Nigeria, would the scams 1322 01:43:42.000 --> 01:43:47.079 and fraud that we have been so unfairly you know, labeled that we are 1323 01:43:47.199 --> 01:43:53.039 one of the worst enablers in the world, would those activities continue, Would 1324 01:43:53.039 --> 01:43:57.680 they continue a mass or would they slow down? With they stop? If 1325 01:43:57.720 --> 01:44:00.039 we cannot fully answered that question, then we have a problem, a real 1326 01:44:00.119 --> 01:44:04.479 problem that we have to address. But generally, you know, there are 1327 01:44:04.479 --> 01:44:09.159 a lot of people who use cryptop because of it's privacy rules, and that 1328 01:44:09.359 --> 01:44:14.119 is valuable for everybody who are trying to escape like what I may Feeling was 1329 01:44:14.159 --> 01:44:17.840 trying to do in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one where he was actively blocking 1330 01:44:17.960 --> 01:44:24.199 people's accounts because they supported the Answers protest. In that kind of scenario, 1331 01:44:24.920 --> 01:44:30.039 crypto is useful and you know, it's it has real advantages. But yeah, 1332 01:44:30.079 --> 01:44:35.760 I would say it's up to first what the individual involved in the cryptocurrency 1333 01:44:35.800 --> 01:44:41.720 activity wants to do. If it's not fraudulent, then it's up to use 1334 01:44:41.800 --> 01:44:45.199 your choice. If you can, you know, actively or properly block that 1335 01:44:45.560 --> 01:44:50.239 transaction so that people know that this transaction like when people, I mean the 1336 01:44:50.279 --> 01:44:56.000 financial system knows that this transaction is not fortuleent, regardless of wet not to 1337 01:44:56.079 --> 01:45:00.199 put your identity there. But that is what the challenge is. Do you 1338 01:45:00.319 --> 01:45:05.479 want total freedom to access financial tools in a market like Nigeria that has a 1339 01:45:05.640 --> 01:45:13.039 high rates of cyber crime or do you want to have protection where the market 1340 01:45:13.119 --> 01:45:17.319 itself is able to ensure that that risk of saba crime is reduced to the 1341 01:45:17.359 --> 01:45:23.079 bare minimum and everybody can feel safe transacting in a Nigeria financial system. That 1342 01:45:23.239 --> 01:45:26.880 is the byfocation of the market that we are in when we're having this conversation 1343 01:45:26.960 --> 01:45:31.479 about privacy. Nigeria is not in a space where a person can make a 1344 01:45:31.560 --> 01:45:35.600 statement and say the Nigerian government is watching us. You can see that make 1345 01:45:35.680 --> 01:45:39.920 that statement, and you see how true it is, and you can also 1346 01:45:40.000 --> 01:45:48.159 see how nuanced it is. I think I look again, delimited everyone, 1347 01:45:48.920 --> 01:46:02.399 not me. Everyone's to be able to speak. Now, I didn't touch 1348 01:46:02.479 --> 01:46:09.199 it, Yeah, I didn't touch it. I think it just went off 1349 01:46:09.239 --> 01:46:12.319 for some I didn't touch it, Abacca, you'll get to speak ahead. 1350 01:46:13.239 --> 01:46:16.880 Yeah, So that so that would be my point is like the Nigeria financial 1351 01:46:16.920 --> 01:46:23.279 system is different from the US. If we want pro privacy, you know, 1352 01:46:23.560 --> 01:46:26.720 the financial system would have to get to a point where it feels safe 1353 01:46:27.159 --> 01:46:31.039 with the level of transaction activity that's happening. If we want pro security, 1354 01:46:31.600 --> 01:46:38.439 the system itself would have to ensure that it's not maltreating people or unfairly targeting 1355 01:46:38.520 --> 01:46:42.119 people that use the section mechanism. And so that's where we are. We 1356 01:46:42.239 --> 01:46:45.640 don't have that level of trust with the government and we also do not have 1357 01:46:45.760 --> 01:46:49.079 that level of trust for it's some of our citizens who are engaged in huge 1358 01:46:49.159 --> 01:46:54.760 volume of sabak. Would you say that it is wrong to deal with people 1359 01:46:54.920 --> 01:47:01.119 who give exposure to cryptos that are of compliance because once your tokens of a 1360 01:47:01.239 --> 01:47:06.680 compliant and you're asking for regulation and basically calling for because in the case that 1361 01:47:06.760 --> 01:47:13.279 you did mention right of the answer, the people who resulted to finding a 1362 01:47:13.319 --> 01:47:20.439 solution during the answers debacle, chose to use a technology that wasn't strange, 1363 01:47:20.439 --> 01:47:25.640 gent and over compliment and call the housed analysis and all that. Right, 1364 01:47:25.800 --> 01:47:30.960 So should the message rather be people? Uh? While I agree with you, 1365 01:47:30.119 --> 01:47:36.800 right, but well I would slightly disagree that privacy would push out influx 1366 01:47:36.880 --> 01:47:41.920 of money. I think that what Nigeria needs, or what Nigerians need, 1367 01:47:42.640 --> 01:47:45.039 like people that are calling for, is more of the dollars, uh, 1368 01:47:45.760 --> 01:47:50.239 you know, residing in the country to help move the economy, whether or 1369 01:47:50.319 --> 01:47:55.000 not the people who the dollar are good or bad people. Right, So 1370 01:47:55.239 --> 01:48:00.239 if there's more privacy, you allow people to freely use their money, then 1371 01:48:00.520 --> 01:48:10.319 that's uh free. How could you just keeper of our compliant tools and the 1372 01:48:10.439 --> 01:48:13.840 ability for people to choose to use privacy tools. Even though you touched on 1373 01:48:13.920 --> 01:48:16.760 that, Yeah, I mean it's it's it's fairly the same thing in the 1374 01:48:16.840 --> 01:48:23.319 sense that in the sense that they were overly compliant because of the reality of 1375 01:48:23.359 --> 01:48:26.199 the nigrant market you you had, they had no choice, like you wanted 1376 01:48:26.239 --> 01:48:30.319 to make sure that you were you were able to uprad in the market. 1377 01:48:30.359 --> 01:48:32.880 Again, with two hundred million people, you expect that you be able to 1378 01:48:33.000 --> 01:48:36.600 solve that market. And so you're trying to do how you're trying to find 1379 01:48:36.600 --> 01:48:43.399 a way to remain you know, comfortable with the regulators and not have issues 1380 01:48:43.439 --> 01:48:46.239 with them. And so that is completely fine. And you know, if 1381 01:48:46.279 --> 01:48:49.600 you're able to do that without any problems, then you know, go ahead 1382 01:48:49.600 --> 01:48:55.039 as a business and do so. But you know, the challenge has always 1383 01:48:55.079 --> 01:49:00.159 been when it comes to the exchangery, it's muret all problems. We have 1384 01:49:00.239 --> 01:49:03.279 to look at it from the balance of payment perspective for the interior, at 1385 01:49:03.279 --> 01:49:08.319 the balance of trade as perspective for Nigeria at the same time, like do 1386 01:49:08.439 --> 01:49:11.399 we do like you know, all of those issues that have to do with 1387 01:49:11.800 --> 01:49:15.399 were not we have enough dollary results, which stems on the fact that we 1388 01:49:15.479 --> 01:49:18.760 don't expect them enough to be able to have enough dollars in our bank account 1389 01:49:18.800 --> 01:49:25.680 as a federation to be able to fight or maintain a descent or should I 1390 01:49:25.720 --> 01:49:29.720 see a stable exchange rate. That is something that the government itself has to 1391 01:49:30.199 --> 01:49:33.960 ensure. It is not something that cryptocurrency alone can assists. It is not 1392 01:49:34.079 --> 01:49:40.000 something that people simply moving money in and out of the country itself would be 1393 01:49:40.000 --> 01:49:44.119 able to be able to address. If the economy is audience. If you 1394 01:49:44.199 --> 01:49:46.760 know we're trading, we're shifting as much oil as we should, if we're 1395 01:49:46.800 --> 01:49:51.399 trading as much exports as we should, so it's fairly good at you look 1396 01:49:51.439 --> 01:49:55.479 at If you look at his circle data all the way before twenty sixteen, 1397 01:49:55.920 --> 01:49:59.680 you would see where the troubles start are from how the deep happen, and 1398 01:49:59.840 --> 01:50:03.880 you see that it coincides too with the collapse of the Naira during that same 1399 01:50:04.000 --> 01:50:12.680 period. So it's not simply a problem with the monetary policy of how people 1400 01:50:12.800 --> 01:50:15.079 move money in and out of the country. It's also a problem with how 1401 01:50:15.600 --> 01:50:20.920 the government itself. It's marshaling the zoos for exports and also supporting an industry 1402 01:50:21.039 --> 01:50:26.279 or industries that can put people to work, help people earn this income, 1403 01:50:26.399 --> 01:50:30.239 and also provide productive industries for exports. So we do not have all of 1404 01:50:30.279 --> 01:50:35.920 those things working efficiently right now, So that affects the whole economy, including 1405 01:50:35.960 --> 01:50:40.680 our exchangees. But I would say, yeah, it's whichever our companies they 1406 01:50:40.720 --> 01:50:45.279 are. If they're able to maintain compliance and also able to serve their customers 1407 01:50:45.439 --> 01:50:50.119 fairly or properly, that would be a win win for everybody. But unfortunately, 1408 01:50:50.239 --> 01:50:54.680 like we all know the legal system and the justice system in Nigeria is 1409 01:50:54.760 --> 01:51:00.000 not working optimally. The economy isn't performing optimality, the trading system for exports 1410 01:51:00.159 --> 01:51:04.199 isn't working optimality. Logistic system for moving goods and services within Nigeria it's not 1411 01:51:04.279 --> 01:51:10.279 also performing properly. So we have all of these deficiencies and the only thing 1412 01:51:10.399 --> 01:51:14.840 we can do as a government is fixated on how to ensure that have a 1413 01:51:15.600 --> 01:51:19.439 it's stables, stable naira without actually providing the resources to make sure that happens. 1414 01:51:19.479 --> 01:51:24.399 And that has been at the LEMMA for the last six years. And 1415 01:51:24.520 --> 01:51:30.560 if we don't fix those fundamentals, I don't see how realistically adjust to a 1416 01:51:30.680 --> 01:51:36.680 crypto pro crypto environment that serves everybody effectively. Yes, strong point, more 1417 01:51:36.680 --> 01:51:43.039 than let me get you to comment. Thanks for holding on a patient much 1418 01:51:44.079 --> 01:51:46.279 the discussion. I've moved away from my first point, but I hope I 1419 01:51:46.359 --> 01:51:51.680 know that goes back well. Do tribute is for afudence and I must say 1420 01:51:51.680 --> 01:51:56.800 that they're on different occasions. I am from my house in Nigeria called that 1421 01:51:57.000 --> 01:52:00.960 sums camps in America and Canada and the company have crashed. I didn't have 1422 01:52:00.079 --> 01:52:03.279 to go look at them anybody's balance it or to any research just from my 1423 01:52:03.399 --> 01:52:08.640 house. I've quite companies. When people show you where they are, believe 1424 01:52:08.720 --> 01:52:11.920 them. That's all I'm going to say for that, because it is not 1425 01:52:12.119 --> 01:52:15.319 what I've done any being an investigation or not. Is just that I would 1426 01:52:15.359 --> 01:52:17.560 just see the truth and I would just say it. Sometimes. Last month 1427 01:52:17.640 --> 01:52:21.279 someoneted me wanted to invest in the company. I told you this company is 1428 01:52:21.319 --> 01:52:27.000 going down, and two literally company went down. Currently the CITFC is suing 1429 01:52:27.079 --> 01:52:30.960 them. So I hope the CITYFC will recover the money of the retail investors 1430 01:52:30.000 --> 01:52:33.039 and traders like myself and give back to them, but I don't see that 1431 01:52:33.079 --> 01:52:38.920 happening anyway. Then now to the discussion and what the mister College strees, 1432 01:52:38.960 --> 01:52:41.840 which I for the first time I would stugree with them. Mister Carl, 1433 01:52:42.279 --> 01:52:46.000 we want integration of crypto in the banks. I'm not an axe part of 1434 01:52:46.000 --> 01:52:49.840 the economy, so in case, I'm let me make that c effence so 1435 01:52:49.920 --> 01:52:54.439 that the body will come for my neck. First off, based on my 1436 01:52:54.560 --> 01:52:57.840 lead to experience of my little money in the bank, the bank cannot even 1437 01:52:57.960 --> 01:53:01.439 do transactions. Our technology for everything, our banking system, I believe is 1438 01:53:01.520 --> 01:53:05.840 borrowed from them from the West. You transfer somebody five thousand, if the 1439 01:53:05.920 --> 01:53:11.000 person will see four thousands it you don't know where to do. Nobody can 1440 01:53:11.159 --> 01:53:14.319 understand. We are not wanted go. Maybe they will say to them CBM 1441 01:53:14.399 --> 01:53:16.600 pointe and we are going to speak English and nobody on understands and that just 1442 01:53:16.760 --> 01:53:21.359 dies down from there. And then also we have multiple rates. I cannot 1443 01:53:21.399 --> 01:53:26.680 go to the bank to receive doctor collect dollar. I remember I wanted to 1444 01:53:27.880 --> 01:53:32.680 continue particular bank and would mention the bank to call boy Lemons. That's what 1445 01:53:32.800 --> 01:53:35.199 the band said. I don't want you should do that that they give you 1446 01:53:35.279 --> 01:53:40.520 bring the dollar for me. That the Indians time anyway, it's really ridicuous 1447 01:53:40.560 --> 01:53:44.319 for Lemon, the market, the country. But when I want to collect. 1448 01:53:45.000 --> 01:53:47.439 But when I when when I wanted to call that my dollar, the 1449 01:53:47.560 --> 01:53:50.720 bank wanted to change the money for me. They told me that they're going 1450 01:53:50.800 --> 01:53:54.600 to give me in read that I do not bring life the bank. We 1451 01:53:54.680 --> 01:53:58.880 basically wanted to cheat me in front daylight. So if the bank can do 1452 01:53:59.000 --> 01:54:01.920 that with our currency, is it with them bitcoin that they will not do 1453 01:54:02.039 --> 01:54:05.760 that. The bank would just be complement and tell you that the essence rate 1454 01:54:05.920 --> 01:54:10.279 is two thousand. What's in your phone? You're saying forty two thousands before 1455 01:54:10.319 --> 01:54:13.760 you know now you have blocked its sixty four thousand. So this is a 1456 01:54:13.840 --> 01:54:15.760 one of the issues that I will not agree for the advanta go into crypto 1457 01:54:15.800 --> 01:54:23.319 because they cannot even measure normal currency dollar to niral accounts. And secondly, 1458 01:54:24.000 --> 01:54:26.960 the technology, the blockchain technology. I don't think the pup in the bank 1459 01:54:27.079 --> 01:54:31.319 understand. My father has a degree in banking and finance is taking time to 1460 01:54:31.439 --> 01:54:34.319 explain what is blockchain to him? So is it? This is the average 1461 01:54:34.359 --> 01:54:44.000 banker with hard certificated inclish to do to get them. You cannot understand blochin 1462 01:54:44.039 --> 01:54:47.159 technology the banker has partificially that is working over the count. How do you 1463 01:54:47.199 --> 01:54:53.840 want to explain how the tradition will work the same even interpret that the data. 1464 01:54:54.720 --> 01:54:58.720 This is a real situation that even is not even government is the technical 1465 01:54:59.479 --> 01:55:02.800 my money to study learn investing two people to reach other to re call because 1466 01:55:02.800 --> 01:55:08.520 of a cryptal transaction majority they show prints the documents. It's only we're going 1467 01:55:08.560 --> 01:55:14.279 to check the the JR to just do some forigm Saek investigation and let your 1468 01:55:14.359 --> 01:55:18.640 to let us see the develop chain. My friend from the university said that 1469 01:55:18.960 --> 01:55:21.800 as a as a research person there, he called me and said that what 1470 01:55:21.880 --> 01:55:26.640 did they do in a ship some documents instead of them so benign some phones? 1471 01:55:26.680 --> 01:55:30.560 If that was the right world to do. And broadly we in Indi 1472 01:55:30.640 --> 01:55:36.560 Nageland space we love control, particularly from the government's side. Anything government cannot 1473 01:55:36.600 --> 01:55:40.600 control and they don't know how to tax, then they will just destroy. 1474 01:55:40.840 --> 01:55:45.479 That's why I'm talked about them may feel and grog practices because they want the 1475 01:55:45.560 --> 01:55:48.640 system there, but they can be able to track. This morning I read 1476 01:55:48.720 --> 01:55:51.800 the not to Cook from a political figure year. I hope it is wrong 1477 01:55:51.920 --> 01:55:57.760 that as the bank is suing is a group of people because of somebody has 1478 01:55:58.159 --> 01:56:00.880 somebody had and the person went to to transaction in in in paranto part in 1479 01:56:01.079 --> 01:56:06.760 so spect and all all of a sudden it is the deal last that are 1480 01:56:06.800 --> 01:56:10.279 going that I've been to, not around the hat. I hope that is 1481 01:56:10.319 --> 01:56:13.920 a lie anyway, because in the in the in the same time, you 1482 01:56:14.239 --> 01:56:16.560 you go for the person that call, but not for the people that sold 1483 01:56:16.640 --> 01:56:24.039 something from the Leger criminal or whatever. And also for the for this space. 1484 01:56:24.159 --> 01:56:27.199 I felt so bad in this space at the point of time because the 1485 01:56:27.279 --> 01:56:30.640 topic is funding, scaling and funding and skiing the topics, but the end 1486 01:56:30.920 --> 01:56:35.239 end not talking about comes and talking about problems and use and do even mention 1487 01:56:35.399 --> 01:56:39.600 the companies that need funding or covering and need skill. Instead, we are 1488 01:56:39.640 --> 01:56:44.640 looking for some sort of consumer protection and some sort of good behavior, which 1489 01:56:44.640 --> 01:56:47.000 I believe is in not if I'm good for an investor, because investors not 1490 01:56:47.079 --> 01:56:50.439 come here to this space and maybe the one to hear what our company is. 1491 01:56:50.479 --> 01:56:54.680 But instead there is busy holding us some companies that are run away to 1492 01:56:55.960 --> 01:57:02.000 estonia, as as the case be in income in complution sign our bands are 1493 01:57:02.039 --> 01:57:05.560 not only doing a good job. You make it transferred today. The person 1494 01:57:05.640 --> 01:57:10.199 will see me next week. So if you if it comes to crypto now, 1495 01:57:10.560 --> 01:57:14.640 because of we don't even have lights as common as it is somebody I 1496 01:57:14.720 --> 01:57:16.920 want to let me see our volume gets to like a billion dollars per day 1497 01:57:17.000 --> 01:57:23.039 now X For example, how we the bank and handle search forlumes of transactions 1498 01:57:23.079 --> 01:57:27.159 when they of the gen around eight o'clock because for crypto they we need at 1499 01:57:27.239 --> 01:57:30.319 least a constant part supplies. So agenda is a clock now, so when 1500 01:57:30.359 --> 01:57:33.840 you receive your crypto by ten o'clock now before I know your money, I've 1501 01:57:33.840 --> 01:57:38.359 disappeared by too. So these are the things that I would learn. I 1502 01:57:38.479 --> 01:57:42.880 wish people in the space can at least clarify so that so we can see 1503 01:57:42.920 --> 01:57:45.319 what to not join the central Bank boards, the band themselves. I believe 1504 01:57:45.399 --> 01:57:48.039 you have cloless. They don't even know what plug chain is. Thank you 1505 01:57:48.119 --> 01:57:55.680 very much. Yeah, what's the question? I must say, Carols time 1506 01:57:55.760 --> 01:57:59.119 bound. But let me just address a few issues. I really want to 1507 01:57:59.199 --> 01:58:03.920 talk about funding issues for text space in Africa. At the very top talked 1508 01:58:03.920 --> 01:58:09.239 about the funding in Africa, adjust number one, about the African companies still 1509 01:58:09.279 --> 01:58:13.359 having funding issues. We did touch that. We talked about going concern and 1510 01:58:13.399 --> 01:58:16.319 that's what we say, talk about the what's their name, the dash and 1511 01:58:16.439 --> 01:58:19.000 the rest. We spoke about those guys as well. So it's just to 1512 01:58:19.279 --> 01:58:24.520 touch with and see, you know, take a temometer to the African text 1513 01:58:24.560 --> 01:58:28.600 space particleist. We're not trying to raise funds here, but he writes a 1514 01:58:28.640 --> 01:58:30.079 lot of good stories and I wanted to bring us on that. We just 1515 01:58:30.199 --> 01:58:34.600 talk around them, right. He's very instructive for in versus the command and 1516 01:58:34.640 --> 01:58:40.279 listen to us talk about this company so they can also get a gauge on 1517 01:58:40.439 --> 01:58:42.760 how we do here this company. I think it was don a good job 1518 01:58:43.159 --> 01:58:46.199 in bringing up many issues. Usually when I do spaces, we end up 1519 01:58:46.600 --> 01:58:51.199 discussing what's not on the on the crime, because really topics can go away 1520 01:58:51.239 --> 01:58:57.560 and take Oackground been very very patient with us his own side of the issues. 1521 01:58:57.600 --> 01:59:00.439 You know, he's not regulator, he's just a journalist and fully put 1522 01:59:00.479 --> 01:59:03.159 amount of the pressure and that's the answer. So let me just say that 1523 01:59:03.319 --> 01:59:09.640 way that it's been a good session with him. Possibly we try to bring 1524 01:59:09.760 --> 01:59:12.760 him back. Remember well to off for tty minutes, so it's been here 1525 01:59:12.920 --> 01:59:15.079 technically two hours or more with us Aperc. Let me just have you on 1526 01:59:15.199 --> 01:59:19.920 mute and probably just go ahead and give your closing remarks and then if possible, 1527 01:59:19.920 --> 01:59:23.520 opening into the space open for a while, suppose can talk. Otherwise 1528 01:59:23.520 --> 01:59:27.920 then you just have your your closing remarks if you don't mind, all right, 1529 01:59:27.960 --> 01:59:31.239 Thank you so much, kind Thank you once again everybody for having on 1530 01:59:31.439 --> 01:59:38.880 this space. It's been a fantastic conversation and to be honest, it's been 1531 01:59:39.000 --> 01:59:45.640 mind blowing hearing people talk different different perspectives about the industry that I cover so 1532 01:59:45.760 --> 01:59:49.680 intensely. And hearing the perspectives too, and so it makes me. It 1533 01:59:49.800 --> 01:59:54.600 helps me get our feedback for what next I'm going to write about and how 1534 01:59:54.600 --> 01:59:58.119 I'm going to write two stories. And I would also take advantage of that 1535 01:59:58.319 --> 02:00:04.239 to say I hope that more people would read text stories published by tech About 1536 02:00:04.760 --> 02:00:11.000 actively stories published by me and my colleagues at various publications at tech Crunch, 1537 02:00:11.439 --> 02:00:15.680 wi Track, at Techniques. Please follow the stories. And I also have 1538 02:00:15.720 --> 02:00:19.039 a sub stack that I fairly haven't published much, but it's there and I'm 1539 02:00:19.079 --> 02:00:25.479 hoping to publish more actively over the coming weeks, So please follow and subscribe 1540 02:00:25.479 --> 02:00:30.399 if you can so I can continue to have more updates. Put the links. 1541 02:00:30.439 --> 02:00:32.840 So sorry it's really interrupt you, but if you can put the link 1542 02:00:32.920 --> 02:00:39.119 up in the nest to your stop stock, it'd be lovely. I don't 1543 02:00:39.159 --> 02:00:43.359 know how to put the link, but the link is on my bio on 1544 02:00:43.439 --> 02:00:45.840 Twitter, Like literally, when you open my bio on Twitter, you'd see 1545 02:00:45.880 --> 02:00:48.760 the link. I don't know how to put the link on this on the 1546 02:00:48.840 --> 02:00:53.359 Twitter space, but it's on my on my bio. But yeah, and 1547 02:00:53.520 --> 02:00:58.319 so I'm really excited about the conversation that we've had Tod it's It's always very 1548 02:00:58.319 --> 02:01:01.520 interesting because most of the time when we talk about tech, we have a 1549 02:01:01.600 --> 02:01:04.680 lot of people talk about it. We talk about the investment side, we 1550 02:01:04.800 --> 02:01:09.880 talk about the product side, we talk about the talent issues, the corporate 1551 02:01:09.960 --> 02:01:14.760 covenents. But then you have to customer support issues and the customer enlightenment and 1552 02:01:15.000 --> 02:01:18.520 educational aspect of it. And there are a bunch of you know, generally, 1553 02:01:18.560 --> 02:01:21.960 there are a lot of issues that people face. Some of these issues 1554 02:01:23.000 --> 02:01:27.119 that you don't get adequate responses to them from the companies or from the regulators. 1555 02:01:27.479 --> 02:01:30.439 And I tend to see this a lot like when people like a company 1556 02:01:30.479 --> 02:01:32.600 will treat something or the Central Bank of manager will treat something, and right 1557 02:01:32.720 --> 02:01:39.119 under that suite you see hundreds of messages from everyday people who are asking the 1558 02:01:39.279 --> 02:01:43.640 central bank to look intowards gender bank has done wrong to them, what one 1559 02:01:43.680 --> 02:01:45.479 other company has done wrong to them, what other banks have done wrong to 1560 02:01:45.560 --> 02:01:50.399 them, and to that makes sense the banks to respond in those messages or 1561 02:01:50.479 --> 02:01:55.840 those those those street that posts, and so yeah, I understand where everybody 1562 02:01:55.920 --> 02:01:59.399 is coming from when they talk about the step companies and how they've been burned. 1563 02:02:00.079 --> 02:02:02.159 I, you know, not necessarily bad investment. But should I see 1564 02:02:02.239 --> 02:02:08.760 fradudentt and you know, bad practices by the companies that they have done business 1565 02:02:08.920 --> 02:02:13.399 with or traded with or worked with, and so those issues are fairly standard, 1566 02:02:13.439 --> 02:02:16.560 are fairly understood. But yeah, again I would say thank you again 1567 02:02:16.680 --> 02:02:23.279 Carlo for hosting the space. Uh and I hope that more people again would 1568 02:02:23.800 --> 02:02:27.800 read this. Thank you so much for putting it in the stuff that I 1569 02:02:27.840 --> 02:02:30.359 would have more people, you know, read the stories as you publish them 1570 02:02:30.600 --> 02:02:34.479 and gage with us if you have questions. Again, if you have tips, 1571 02:02:34.960 --> 02:02:40.119 if you notice anything about any company that you feel is shaky, please 1572 02:02:40.199 --> 02:02:44.600 do reach out to us myself other journalists, send us a d M. 1573 02:02:45.000 --> 02:02:46.880 Tell us what you have, give us a tip, because that is really 1574 02:02:46.960 --> 02:02:51.199 how journalism works. We once we have that information or begin to act on 1575 02:02:51.239 --> 02:02:56.520 it as quickly as possible, and that would help to you know, provide 1576 02:02:56.560 --> 02:02:59.520 the rest of the reports and that you see when you when you read about 1577 02:02:59.560 --> 02:03:02.119 the company that has gone bost a company that has done equal to their customers. 1578 02:03:02.720 --> 02:03:05.640 We need all your information to be able to do so, we need 1579 02:03:05.720 --> 02:03:09.920 your tips to be able to do so. And please please please feel free 1580 02:03:09.960 --> 02:03:13.600 to reach out to me to call to anybody who covers the industry to be 1581 02:03:13.680 --> 02:03:18.000 able to share this information anonymously and also properly too. Thank you so much, 1582 02:03:18.119 --> 02:03:20.960 and do subscribe to the subtract. Thank you. And the last question 1583 02:03:21.079 --> 02:03:26.359 for you is tech about the local? Is it a drunk company or I've 1584 02:03:26.359 --> 02:03:29.640 also wanted to ask that question and it wasn't tech about tech World? Why 1585 02:03:29.680 --> 02:03:32.720 do you guys local? Yes, talk about is local? Take About is 1586 02:03:32.800 --> 02:03:38.720 based in legal states, and take about is the subsidiary of Big Cabal Media, 1587 02:03:39.199 --> 02:03:44.399 the same the same company that owns zico Co, the popular culture website, 1588 02:03:44.520 --> 02:03:47.000 and so we owner and take about it. Well the tech Crunch is 1589 02:03:47.079 --> 02:03:51.960 it you guys as well? No tech count is an international publication, so 1590 02:03:53.119 --> 02:03:56.680 Cabal is local one that okay, gotcha? Okay, just clean that up, 1591 02:03:56.720 --> 02:03:59.840 Okay, super okay. Times of Brock mean, I can't thank you. 1592 02:04:00.239 --> 02:04:02.239 I know we've gone back and forth on this and I appreaciate you coming 1593 02:04:02.760 --> 02:04:06.600 and spending time and just educating us all. I think I've learned a lot 1594 02:04:06.960 --> 02:04:11.800 today and I thank you for your time and I appreciate it for all those 1595 02:04:11.840 --> 02:04:15.800 that also contributed, Thank you so much. I think we've taken common sense 1596 02:04:15.840 --> 02:04:17.439 of it. This stuff is recorded. If you go to my top my 1597 02:04:17.560 --> 02:04:21.239 TL you so the podcast link there. Once we're done, I'll share it 1598 02:04:21.359 --> 02:04:24.680 so you can also listen to it. If you have a question or follow 1599 02:04:24.760 --> 02:04:27.880 up send me or about car a DM and of course to address it. 1600 02:04:28.279 --> 02:04:32.079 We always here every weekend Sunday, seven pm talking about money, finances. 1601 02:04:32.199 --> 02:04:35.119 Of course the economy are going to be here next week. Are Goain trying 1602 02:04:35.159 --> 02:04:39.680 to bring you some big boys that have to apps that we can talk about 1603 02:04:39.800 --> 02:04:44.039 Nigeria, how to track this in Nigeria and talk about the budgets and all 1604 02:04:44.079 --> 02:04:47.760 that. So be here next week's Sunday again with us when we do that. 1605 02:04:48.039 --> 02:04:50.560 Also get my book. Guys, if you're interested in investing, you 1606 02:04:50.760 --> 02:04:55.960 can't be an investor if you don't understand how money works. You cannot know 1607 02:04:56.119 --> 02:04:59.720 how money works simply because you earn money. That's like seeing I'm a doctor, 1608 02:05:00.079 --> 02:05:01.760 I have a body. You know, you've got to understand how money 1609 02:05:01.840 --> 02:05:05.000 works, how it's investable, what are the risks and all that. So 1610 02:05:05.279 --> 02:05:09.880 get the books on Amazon. It's tadled. Let's talk about your money. 1611 02:05:10.159 --> 02:05:15.000 Read it. Understand how to invest, how to don asset allocation, how 1612 02:05:15.039 --> 02:05:19.960 to do a simple budget. How to understand what return on investments is read 1613 02:05:20.520 --> 02:05:27.199 understand the most importantly apply don't wait before you invest. Invest let then you 1614 02:05:27.319 --> 02:05:29.600 start to wait. Right all right, folks, I'm want to let you 1615 02:05:29.680 --> 02:05:32.119 guys go and joy us your weekend tomorrow. It's Monday. It should be 1616 02:05:32.159 --> 02:05:35.680 a blessed weekend weekday for all of you guys. Peace of the world. 1617 02:05:36.039 --> 02:05:41.439 Thank you broker, I think limit. Thanks to the Satshi all guys are 1618 02:05:41.439 --> 02:05:45.159 communiy. You guys have a good day and enjoyer us very weekend. By 1619 02:05:45.800 --> 02:05:47.000 thanks tetulity, you have a good one for buy