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Yeah, we've we've seen all of
that and at at scale with with the

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Twitter files, I mean, we
we try to basically come clean and you

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know, publish just how much coersion
had happened. And I think there's there's

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probably more that we just haven't uncovered
yet. But you know, there was

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and this is coming from multiple parts
of the government, from the State Department,

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the FBI, Homeland Security, from
really many many parts of the government.

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Wasn't wasn't just one arm of the
government. There was this FBI portal

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that order deleted all communications after two
weeks, so we actually don't know what

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what what what was said there.
In fact, that does strike me as

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a Foyer violation Freedom of Information Act
violation, because you shouldn't be able to

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delete order de lead things after two
weeks. There was There's a little known

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agency in the State Department called the
Global Engagement Center, which most people have

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never heard of, but they might
have been the single worst defender because they

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demanded the suspension of at one point
over two hundred and fifty thousand accounts,

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which I think all Twitter largely complied
with, but they did. Their suspension

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demands were so broad that they accidentally
demanded a suspension of a journalist on CNN

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and an elected Canadian politician. It
was just incredibly a broad swath. And

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then of course has to be careful
of things that constraints on speech that may

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be dressed up as one thing,
but in fact are political in nature.

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And if one looks at the suspensions
and the visibility suppression that happened at Twitter,

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it was overwhelmingly like ten to one
in favor of Democrats. Like basically,

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there will be like ten voices on
the rights suppressed for everyone on the

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left. Even if there was someone
suppressed on the left, it would usually

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because of an argument of two people
on the left. So it was a

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very big thumb on the political scale. And you know, so I think

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that that there's a reason that we
have the First Amendment, and that's important

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to think about that why does it
exist? And it exists because our people

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came from countries where they could not
speak freely, where if they if they

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did, if they did speak their
mind, they would be imprisoned or killed.

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That's that's why they were so concerned
about freedom of speech, is because

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they didn't have it in the countries
they came from, and in many places

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in the world, maybe most places
you don't have freedom of speech. And

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you know, there's certainly no country
has the protection of speech that the United

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States do, is not even not
even in Canada. So that's uh,

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it's something we should really uh take
pride in and uh and seek to preserve.

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It's I mean, I think that
the bedrock of democracy is freedom of

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speech because if you can't if you
can't say what you want to say,

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then I think that's essentially put up
political coercion, if you you know so.

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Anyway, there's there's reason why it's
there was a high urgency to amend

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the Constitution with the First Amendment.
It was because if you don't have freedom

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of speech, you got nothing.
So thank thank you for pursuing this case.

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I think this is and I hope, I hope the Supreme Court takes

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action. And I think it's better
to be overzealous in protection of protecting free

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speech than to allow it to be
eroded. Yeah. No, I appreciate

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that, and I appreciate you everything
you've done in this market to expose some

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of the wrongdoing. And it does
appear that so much that you've uncovered is

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corroborative of the evidence we've obtained through
the discovery process. And again, look,

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we're in the preliminary phases of this
litigation. We did preliminary discovery to

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get a preliminary injunction, but this
isn't over yet. And I couldn't agree

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with you more that you know.
I think it was Thomas Jefferson, and

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I'm paraphrasing, but essentially he said, in reference to the rights free speech,

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that it is safe to tolerate error
of opinion when reason is left free

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to combat it. I mean,
the whole idea here is that the truth

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will emerge from the competition of ideas
in free, transparent public discourse. And

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when you get the government censoring viewpoints, especially in the name of trying to

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quote unquote protect the public from untruthed
it taints that market. In this country,

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the remedy for disfavored speech has always
been counter speech, not so it

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seems like a real betrayal of this
legacy of freedom in embodied in the First

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Amendment for the Biden administration to have
undertaken this vast censorship enterprise. Yeah,

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as I really can't emphasize enough.
I think what like it's it is essential

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to a functioning democracy to have freedom
of speech, and it is and once

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it is lost, I don't think
it ever comes back. So it's it's

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that's I mean, that's why it's
in the constitution, that the whole point

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of constitutions is to It seems like
there's something wrong with this, and I

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want to I want to point out
too that some of the evidence going back

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to this idea that the censorship was
really targeted at one viewpoint, and I

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think you talked about it being ten
to one that conservative Republicans were targeted for

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censorship as opposed to the occasional left
leaning Democrat, and oftentimes it is only

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because two progressives too liberals, two
Democrats were arguing with one another that would

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result in one of them being censored. But you know, the evidence that

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we uncovered. Not only can I
show you actual emails from the White House

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Communications Office saying, hey, take
down that Tucker Carlson video, take down

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that Tommy Laren post deplatform RFK,
but we can also show you that,

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for instance, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure
Security Agency SISA, which we've identified as

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the nerve center of this vast censorship
enterprise, maintains a spreadsheet of targets for

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government censorship, and I see a
lot of parallels between the Global Engagement Center

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and SISSA and this orchestrated campaign to
eliminate one viewpoint from public discourse. This

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wasn't a one off, this wasn't
an isolated incident. And I think it's

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really disturbing that the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure
Security Agency was intended to protect bridges and

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computer databases, and yet the director
of SISSA has said publicly like that she

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also is dedicated to protecting neurological infrastructure. I mean, it could not get

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more or willy and and what's even
more frightening is that SISA is within the

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Department of Homeland Security. This is
a federal agency created in the wake of

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nine to eleven to protect Americans from
foreign attack, and yet here it's been

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weaponized against American citizens to violate our
right to free speech. But you know,

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yeah, I mean, I can't
speak to SISS specifically, except that

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there were a lot of of course, from Homeland Security, the Global Engagement

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Center in the State Department, and
the FBI, and that there was a

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lot. I think it's unequivocented,
big coersion at scale and from the White

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House. So really it's it's over
the top, and I really hope and

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I hope the Supreme Court takes an
action that gives, you know, govern

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pause and it does not give them
encouragement in the diminishment of free speech.

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So, you know, it dawns
on me too that the legacy media has

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largely failed to cover so many of
these stories. And it was telling it

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at the Supreme Court today because Justice
Alito and Justice Kavanaugh both latched onto this

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idea that you know, the government
were demanding that the print media remove certain

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content or face legal repercussions. No
one would tolerate that. And yet here

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the legacy media is almost like an
ostrich with its head stuck in the sand,

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ignoring what's going on on big tech. Why is the legacy media why

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do they ignore this issue? Well, I think that's that's a good question.

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I mean, they're almost in unison
supporting and not questioning the government.

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And this is but this is a
fairly new development. I mean, in

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times past, the media, the
legacy media, when it wasn't the legacy

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media, would question the government very
strongly and wouldn't trust the government. And

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now we're being told to trust the
government. I mean, there was a

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whole, the whole sort of COVID
debacle, you know, where there was

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a lot of key data points on
COVID that were suppressed and and and the

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public was just told to trust the
government and there was no questioning of the

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government by by the legacy media.
So I don't know, I mean,

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the the sort of legacy or formerly
mainstream media really seems to be largely a

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chearing squad for the far left and
for the government, which is is tragic.

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But I mean the relevance is the
declining over time. And what matters

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is that, you know, for
electronic media, that there is freedom of

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speech because that's where people are.
I mean, print newspapers are a dinosaur

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and they're they're going away. And
but I think that's therefore all the more

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important that on what's called social media, but which is really just electronic media,

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that that there not be constraints from
the government and on on what people

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can say. So one of the
really interesting comments I heard at the Supreme

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Court today was from Associate Justice Kintaji
Brown Jackson when she said that it appeared

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that the First Amendment was hamstringing the
Government's response to an emergency, and it

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kind of dawned on me that I'm
not sure that Justice Jackson and I share

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the same view of the purpose of
the Constitution broadly. In other words,

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my view of the Constitution is that
it exists to protect us from the government,

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and absolutely so the fact that it
is hamstringing the First Amendment hamstrings the

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government's ability to censor free speech is
a good thing. And she she almost

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characterized it as a bad thing.
And yet the legacy ignores that headline altogether

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in favor of talking about how skeptical
the justices were of this coercion argument.

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Yeah, the exactly the whole point
of the Constitution is to constrain the power

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of government and so that it does
not tuning against the people. And that's

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also something where you know, people
come here from other countries where they were

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used to an extremely coursive government,
where then just lack freedom of speech.

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They lacked many freedoms, and that's
why they have the second the right to

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bear arms, because one of the
other things that people have in the countries

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that came from is that they weren't
allowed to have guns. Because the way

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to suppress the population is to control
the news and make sure that the population

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has no guns. And the point
in which you control the plow of information

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and you have the weapons, you
control the people. So I think both

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the First and Second Amendment are actually
very important, certainly, and you know,

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at the end of the day,
I think you're spot on that our

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culture, our society has evolved to
the point that electronic media has completely eclipsed

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legacy print media. Certainly, you
know, the way in which we receive

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information has changed so much in the
past ten twenty years. Give us some

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context there, I mean, what
is the order of magnitude in this fight?

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What is truly at stake when you
look at just the sheer quantity of

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individuals impacted who interact and receive information
from social media? Well, I think

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I think at this point almost everyone
is on what is called social media.

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So it is it is the it
is the fundamental way that most people have

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any voice at all, because your
alternative would be to talk to a reporter

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and get an article written. And
there's only you know, like, how

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many articles is do the New York
Times or journal watching the posts actually produced

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per day? It's you know,
it's a tiny number. So just getting

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any voice at all, it can
be difficult or impossible. So it's overwhelmingly

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electronic media or social media, and
social media it makes sound like a group

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chat. Well, I guess maybe
it is kind of a group chat.

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I mean, what is X well
as to kind of a group chat for

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Earth. But yeah, it's uh, you know, like I mean,

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there's this five hundred million posts per
day something like that on on the X

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platform. That's globally, so you
can compare that to I don't know whether

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five hundred articles uh in major newspapers
less than that, So it's like a

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million times it's like a million times
less so. And in fact, i've

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I said, one of my sons
had some learning difficulties. It's kind of

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kind of autistic and credit card for
me. But I he he literally had

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not noticed a newspaper until we were
walking through an airport and he saw I

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think it was Wall Street Journal or
something, and he looked at the paper

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and said, how did they know
it was today? And I was like,

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I was like, no, no, some they actually they print that

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thing out every day. And he
says, what they printed out every day?

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What a sure? And and then
he said followed up with oh,

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they probably just read the Internet and
print it out. I'm like, yes,

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that's what they do. They almost
no reporters are actually on the scene.

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They literally just read the Internet and
print it out. So a massive

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number of the articles that are written
are written as because of posts on the

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X platform or posts on you know, Facebook or you know somewhere else.

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But actually it seems I think overwhelmingly
on the X platform, at least,

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I don't see a lot of Facebook
stuff based stuff, so, you know,

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and Instagram is basically just an online
modeling agency, so the contentions stuff

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is is uh, generally on the
X platform. You know, it does

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seem like the newspapers, telephones,
I mean, these kind of quaint historical

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anachronisms that were president when I was
a child, and and and you're right,

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my children have no concept of what
these these things are. But at

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the same time, you know,
and I know there's been a lot of

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comparisons about certainly I think that you
know, so many of these technologies like

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telephone or print media, you know, these quaint historical anachronisms and the things

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that I grew up with, and
yet my children, like like you said,

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just have no concept of what they
are or the you know, the

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role that they used to play in
our society. But at the same time,

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you know that the social media as
a marketplace is different from distinguishable from

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some of these past marketplaces, at
least in part because of Section two thirty

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of the Communications Decency Act. You
know, what, what role do you

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think, uh, Section two thirty
of the CDA plays in making it potentially

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easier for the government to make censorship
demands on social media. Actually, I'm

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not sure. I'm not sure I've
got a good answer to that. As

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a matter of law, I do
think that there needs to be there does

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need to be a protection of the
social media companies from lawsuits for for stuff

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that's on the platform. Otherwise the
social media companies will be sued into oblivion.

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So we have we do have a
very litigious society. So I think

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that it is important to have protection
from being sued into oblivion or this will

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simply be ceased to exist, cease
to exist, or or be forced to

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engage into draconian censorship out of fear
of legal work percussions. So, you

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know, I think we're just we
need to kind of let people say what

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they want to say and and I
do think it's important to tap transparency and

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like how the sort of recommendation altgroth
works and if accounts have been suppressed in

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any way, so we're actually just
rolling out up so that if if someone

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knows that they've they've been uh,
you know, have a search ban or

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whatever, or they've been incorrectly identified
as not safe for work, or if

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there's any kind of visibility suppression,
it needs to be surfaced to the to

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the account holder so they know that
it's there. They shouldn't have to try

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to use third parties to figure it
out. Like we just we're just trying

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to be as open and transparent as
possible. And it's difficult to do that

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because there's so many layers of code
in the system. But I think we're

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making steady progress and and with things
like community notes, I think is a

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fundamentally good thing. I really encourage
people to community contribute to community notes because

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that's I think that's maybe the best
source of truth that I've seen on the

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on the internet. Because if there's
a post content on on the X platform,

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in order for a community note to
surface, we don't we don't delete

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that content, but the community note
say that that that post is false and

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here's why, or it could say
that post is missing important context. Here's

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the added context. In order for
that community note to be shown, people

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who have historically disagreed must agree that
the note is good in order for it

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to be shown, and that that's
the That's just sort of the the key

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magic there with community notes, and
also important to emphasize community notes, the

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software is completely open source. There's
no there's there's nothing hidden, and the

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data is completely open source, so
you can recreate independently exactly how a note

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was written and and how it was
surfaced, so you know that. Yeah,

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so that's I think really pretty helpful. Yeah. I mean, I

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again, in keeping with your history
and legacy of innovation, I mean,

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you're the what you've done with X
is truly innovative. I mean in the

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way in which you're both balancing what
you're balancing the protection of consumers and customers

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while simultaneously promoting freefare and open debate. Are these best practices that you feel

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like other social media companies could adopt
or I mean, are some of the

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transplannable Yeah? I mean, actually, I think what what what we the

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government should be trying to do is
insist that social media companies UH make their

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recommendation algorithm transparent, open source,
and that they that there'll be no hidden

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censorship. So like any censorship actions, like in any suppression of an account

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or a suspension of account, should
be visible to that account and be visible

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to like public, like you can
actually find out that this has happened.

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Like there's currently a massive amount of
hidden censorship that that is done by by

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Google and by frankly also by Facebook
and Instagram and and so then people have

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no idea about by the the Google
censorship might be the most pernicious because it's

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very easy for them to just nudge
a link onto the second page. And

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there's that old joke of what's the
best place to you know, hide a

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dead body, Well it's the second
page at Google search results, because nobody

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ever looks there. So that's that's
pretty important to you know, say hey,

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to Google, nudge a search result
to the second page, because that'll

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drop how many people see it by
factor of ten or more, maybe one

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hundred. So there's a whole bunch
of that happening. It's very subtle,

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and so you can't it's it's it's
much harder to detect than say, account

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suspension. So I think that's what
the government should be fighting for. Should

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be fighting for transparency. It should
be fighting for individual rights and allowing people

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to say what they want to say
within as the law and as opposed to

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trying to center and suppress people's opinions. Yeah what, And you know,

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I think that the opening Twitter and
releasing the Twitter files and again so much

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of it corroborates what we've learned through
the discovery process and our lawsuit Missouri v.

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Biden that the Supreme Court is is
you know, it's been submitted at

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this point to the Supreme Court after
oral argument today. But you know,

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this is just one fight, one
front in the fight for free speech.

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Do you see other fronts opening out
there? I mean, certainly we've seen

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corporate pressure campaigns to try to eliminate
safe spaces for freefare and open debate.

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I mean, what else in the
fight there is? There's a bit of

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a challenge with advertisers where pressure groups
will, you know, like various non

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sort of charities and NGOs, non
governmental entities, organizations will get together and

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then they will attack advertisers who advertise
on say the X platform or some other

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platform in order to starve the company's
revenue and actually Facebook, you know,

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to give like some credit. He
did try to actually fight off the advertise

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advertisers censorship, but I think he
ultimately did give in. They loss of

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billions of dollars in revenue. So, you know, advertisers, if you're

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like a you know, sort of
household name brand, you really just you

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just really don't want to have any
strife. So, uh, they tend

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to freak out if some activist organizations
get some article written about how they're advertising

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nextra content that's bad, and then
that tends that tends to kind of panic

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and then and poors they're advertising.
So we had a lot of that on

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the X platform. You know,
about two thirds of our US advertising was

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suspended or it just went on pours. They we said, it's a boycott

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that I don't want to say this
boycott. It is just pours, except

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the poors never ends. So if
we had not been able to reduce our

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costs dramatically, the X would have, you know, formally, Twitter would

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have gone bankrupt. And that's fully
what they were trying to do. They

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were trying to drive the company to
bankruptcy, which obviously is major suppression of

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free speech. So so basically chain
of events is like these, like the

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so called charities and angios that pressure
that the pressure advertises via the legacy media,

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and the advertisers gets kiddish and suspend
their advertising and effectively it becomes a

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boycott. So that's that's a pretty
big deal. Actually, that's something that

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should be dealt with. So there
might be some Rico Act violations there,

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Yeah, certainly. And you know, one of the other ways I've looked

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at it is from the standpoint of, you know, a potential anti trust

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issue where you've got this market manipulation
at you know what level of coordination and

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whom does that benefit. So certainly
you know that these are new experiences in

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an evolving marketplace. But you know, I think I wanted to go back

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to one of the things he said
that I think really struck a chord with

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me, and it's that it dawns
on me that the First Amendment protects not

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only speakers but listeners. So like
our right to free speech, it's not

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just our right to say something,
but the right of the people to hear

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something. And so when you get
speech suppressed on x or on Facebook.

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You know, not only are the
people making the posts their rights are violated,

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but anyone who would have reviewed that
information. It's almost when you look

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at Google and the deep platforming de
emphasizing shadow banning, like like you said,

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hiding things on the second page of
the Google search. I mean it's

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a shadowy suppression of ideas. Yeah. Absolutely, you could drive an entire

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viewpoint from public discourse and the world
may never know. Yes, exactly it

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might be with having some people say
if your words, I see Mike Ben's

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is there and he's got lots to
say about this sort of stuff. Maybe

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we could have Mike say a few
words, Hey, how you doing.

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Thanks for having me on and I
appreciate. Uh, this is a fascinating

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conversation. And Andrew, thank you
so much for spearheading this fight. You

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know, this is I hope the
entire galactic universe is sending their spirit energy

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to you this week. You are
the tip of the spear and this I

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think if if this action had been
brought years ago, we might not be

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in the position we're in. There's
a few things that I just wanted to

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maybe relay for your sort of strategic
consideration and for the education of the audience,

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and that is, you know,
with respect. You know, I

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heard the dialogue about the role of
the media in this and questions about why

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the media is not, you know, taking up the issue, and that

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gets to another another thing that I
think would be really helpful to be able

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to stress with respect to convincing justices. If you agree with this strategic assessment,

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which is the whole of society model
that the government set up, is

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definitive proof of coercion and collusion,
and it's the government's own words, so

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you don't even need to establish it
as some novel theory. So El was

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speaking about the State Department's Global Engagement
Center, which was created in twenty fourteen,

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initially to take on ISIS, to
give the State Department a way to

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censor ISIS recruiters on Facebook and Twitter. It was really the first ever formal

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government censorship office, but it was
supposed to be foreign facing. And then

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after the twenty sixteen election, that
same network around the State Department's Global Engagement

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Center. This is basically a group
called the Atlantic Council, which is a

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big backer of Biden World. Not
to make things political but this is what

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they did. They had these planning
documents with how to set up a censorship

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office within the Department of Homeland Security, and they proposed first putting at the

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State Department's Global Engagement Center, but
said, hey, that's too far in

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facing. Maybe we could park it
an intelligence agency like the CIA or the

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FBI. They ultimately decided on DHS, which would combine essentially this foreign facing

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media power that the CIA has with
the domestic jurisdiction of the FBI, with

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DHS being the only other domestic intelligence
equity besides the FBI that would be able

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to take on speech. And because
the FBI is the intelligence arm of the

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Justice Department, they didn't think the
FBI was the appropriate place to park this

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SISA operation because it's not illegal to
tweet about mail in ballots or vaccine negative

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efficacy or whatnot. And so they
created this very deliberately. Now DHS documents,

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starting in late twenty eighteen contemplated the
construction. Not just contemplated, they

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planned, and they held entire meetings
to create this whole of society model,

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which in their view, fuses together
the government, the private sector, civil

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society, and media. In four
quadrants to act in unison for censorship activity.

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That is, the government would provide
funding and coordination the civil society institutions

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like the university centers which function as
these sort of mercenary firms. These are

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places like the Stanford Airne Observatory and
the University of Washington and MIT and Harvard,

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that they would put pressure on the
private sector institutions, that is the

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platforms. And this is what Twitter
one point zero. We saw this in

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the Twitter files. In many other
cases, they were complaining about all the

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pressure from civil society, from the
universities, from the NGOs, from the

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00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:49.680
nonprofits, from the community leaders and
activist groups. But the fourth quadrant was

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the media. In twenty sixteen,
when the censorship industry was getting constructed,

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the media was facing two sources of
pressure. One is, their revenues were

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being squeezed by online media. They
were being out competed by citizen journalism.

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And because citizen journalists don't have to
pay these vast staffs and the content was

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free and even more popular, they
faced a commercial threat from these, you

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know, from alternative news. At
the same time, forces within the US

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government, through this whole society society
model, were onboarding these media organizations to

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join the whole society censorship alliance,
so they had both a commercial and a

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political impetus to engage in, not
just engage in, but to actively support

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at all measures these censorship activities.
And the government even contemplated how the media

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could be used as another source of
pressure to induce criseses on the platforms and

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that might could contribute to advertiser boycotts. In fact, there's a September twenty

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eighteen DHS document that specifically talked about
how these kind of advertiser boycotts might be

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marshaled by supporting institutions like NewsGuard,
when when it was just in its infancy,

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NewsGuard is a professional advertiser boycotting company. So you have this whole society

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model, which which by itself,
you know, establishes the censorship laundering process.

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And you know, if you go
to the top of my timeline right

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now at Mike ben Cyber for anyone
listening, you'll see at the very top

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of it, I have a two
and a half minute supercut of government officials

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from DHS, from the State Department, from the Pentagon, from USAID,

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one by one, all the different
because the formal title is whole society,

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whole of government. This is when
Elon was referring to the you know,

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to the fact that it's bigger than
just DHS, and it's bigger than just

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the State Department's Flow of Engagement Center. It was because after DHS established this

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office, as you know ag Bailey
laid out, DHS did serve as that

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nerve center from from twenty nineteen through
twenty twenty two. But they you know,

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the former title was whole society,
whole of government, being every government

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00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:07.680
institution was tasked to lend its own
proprietary resources, whether that's in censorship funding

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like the National Science Foundation, censorship
pressure like the FBI, censorship a policy

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coordination like DHS, or censorship outsourcing
like the Pentagon in the State Department.

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So this is now a whole you
know, what's an issue here in terms

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of censorship laundering in this case is
whether this whole society model is valid.

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And one thing that I would just
propose another thing strategically is you know,

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I heard this argument today in the
oral argument about narrow tailoring. Another video

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I just put at the top of
my timeline is a proposal. And again

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this is just for your consideration,
you know, Andrew and everyone else on

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00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:50.880
your team. One way that you
can slice through that narrow tailoring question is

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to look at the propaganda versus censorship
model or dichotomy as being knob upturning and

386
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:05.519
knob downturning and proposing a constitutional limit
on the ability to act as essentially a

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00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:07.680
hedge fund, if you will,
and the analogy that I draw here,

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And this will be the last thing
I'll say, because thank you for your

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00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:12.160
time. I appreciate you letting me
speak here. But you know, there

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are financial there are limits on financial
institutions around mutual funds. For example,

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mutual funds are these huge, huge
endowments of money, and because of their

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00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:23.559
size and the nature of what they're
entrusted to protect, they're limited from short

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00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.480
selling. You know, mutual funds
can only go long. They are barred

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00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:31.400
by law from engaging in short selling
because of what would happen to the market

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if that much money, with that
many people's pension funds were to go short

396
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:42.920
and attack a stock to a Baar
rate on a stock. Now, hedge

397
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:46.640
funds have more flexibility. The US
government always had a sort of mutual fund

398
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:51.880
model when it comes to propaganda,
they're going to argue, well, we're

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00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:54.079
going to the government needs to be
able to get its message out. If

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they think that vaccines are safe and
effective, they need to be able to

401
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:00.519
get their message out. If they
think, you know, creation of an

402
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:02.400
election mail and ballots are safe and
secuity, they need to get the message

403
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:05.880
out. If they want a message
on the Ukraine War, they need to

404
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.280
get the message out. You can
leave that intact by saying yes, okay,

405
00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:15.079
the mutual fund model is sufficient not
upturning. You know, there may

406
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.880
be some room there, but when
it comes to knob downturning, they can't

407
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:23.760
act as essentially a sort of hedge
fund and solve their problem with respect to

408
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:30.360
coordinating with government officials by short selling
or by laundering short selling, laundering censorship,

409
00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:36.320
downturning through the whole society, whether
that's the private sector of the civil

410
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:44.159
society or the media allies. All
right, I mean, if I could

411
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:47.039
just hope one thing with respect to
the Supreme Court decision is that they err

412
00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:51.519
on the side of free speech.
It's really that it's not going to be

413
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:52.960
a clean cut thing either way,
but it's just if you've got to make

414
00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:57.280
you know, give one thing,
the benefit of the doubt. I think

415
00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:59.800
we've got to give benefit of the
doubt. Benefit of the doubt has got

416
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:05.679
to go to more freedom of speech, not less, because there's there's a

417
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:10.480
steady encroachment on freedom of speech as
it is, and so and we have

418
00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:15.639
we they certainly even if if there's
if some people think there isn't any fire,

419
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.119
there's certainly a lot of smoke,
and I think there is fire actually

420
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:25.400
with respect to impunishment our free speech. So I just hope that the Supreme

421
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:30.039
Court comes down with with erring on
the side of freedom of speech. This

422
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:35.199
is really, I think the right
move for the future. I think we

423
00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:39.119
can't have a functioning democracy if people
can't speak their mind. And so I

424
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:43.239
sure hope that happened. Let's see
this. There's a few others maybe that

425
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:46.360
are worth going from. I don't
think we've got time for for everyone,

426
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:58.440
but let's see. Uh, I
guess Alex at Alex and Brian and uh,

427
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:05.400
let's see if that's what Sorry,
guys, I think Alex and Brian,

428
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:07.639
I think both of you guys were
at some point suspended. Yep,

429
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:15.360
yeah, is that accurate. Yes, we both were in April of twenty

430
00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:20.360
twenty. Never got a real clear
answer on that one, but it came

431
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:27.239
suspiciously after I posted a Joe Biden
meme where it was, you know,

432
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:30.760
one of those generated things where people
would say like I support Joe Biden and

433
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:34.440
it would be their profile picture.
So I made it into a meme and

434
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:38.519
say supports Joe Biden for president.
And then twenty minutes later I was suspended,

435
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:44.760
and suspiciously when the Twitter files came
out, it was the same sort

436
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:49.840
of meme that someone else was targeted. It wasn't my post, but somebody

437
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:57.480
else. I think James Woods had
his requested the DNC. Yeah exactly.

438
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.800
It's fun, which accounts a getting
suspended for me? You know you've got

439
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:04.119
a problem, Yeah exactly. And
then and then we had somebody actually be

440
00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:07.239
arrested for for memes at the behest
of the Biden do OJ But I know

441
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:13.199
that's an entirely different issue, but
still, yeah, memes are criminal these

442
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:20.239
days. It's worth you're you're generally
on your Democrat and outspoken Democrats, so

443
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:27.000
it's helpful for people to know that
my my band was kind of unique.

444
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:31.719
So they said that I was banned
for buying my account and ed was two.

445
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:37.280
We didn't actually buy our accounts though, and it would be interesting if

446
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:42.599
you have actual documentation on this that
you could go back and actually view.

447
00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:49.199
We contacted x or Twitter at the
time through our legal team, which was

448
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:53.159
just two lawyers that we hired,
UH and we we considered suing Twitter for

449
00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:58.440
defamation. Do they put out a
statement saying that'll be we were buying interactions

450
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:05.239
and faking our engage. And when
we contacted Twitter, they basically told us

451
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:10.719
that they thought that we bought our
account and they made a sign like a

452
00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:15.920
non disclosure agreement saying that we can't
share anything in which I have since after

453
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:20.280
you purchased the company. I was
like, Elon's not going to sue me

454
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:27.519
for this, but I have.
I hope you don't at least, so

455
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:32.719
we did find out that they thought
we actually purchased our accounts. We showed

456
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:37.840
them the emails from twenty ten from
when we actually registered the accounts. But

457
00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:44.440
the reason they thought we purchased the
accounts was because we had the accounts in

458
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.559
twenty ten and we changed the names
a couple of times, like various things

459
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:52.360
that were totally off topic from what
we eventually used them for and before we

460
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:57.320
changed them to our name currently,
so they had reason to believe it it

461
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:02.239
wasn't worth a lawsuit because they does
public figures, and our lawyer tended to

462
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:06.400
agree that we probably would be a
public figure, and we have to prove

463
00:39:06.519 --> 00:39:12.679
malice. I don't think it was
malicious, but but yeah, I mean,

464
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:17.199
I think Twitter was heavy handed.
I disagree with them banning so many

465
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:22.719
right leaning accounts. Even though I
disagree with those accounts, I'm happy that

466
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:25.559
you took over and you straighten that
out. Of course, I don't agree

467
00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:31.800
with everything everybody says, but I
also don't think that a company should be

468
00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:37.079
the one deciding what's right to be
posted and what's not. Yeah, absolutely

469
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:44.079
exactly. It's I mean, the
you know, situation with access often characterized

470
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:46.400
as sort of a right wing takeover, but really it's out characterized as a

471
00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:53.400
moderate wing takeover in that there's,
like the best of my knowledge, no

472
00:39:53.400 --> 00:40:00.079
no prominent democrat account or you know, left leaning account has been suspended or

473
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:05.840
if there is a happy to you
know, happy to fix that. But

474
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:07.599
I don't think that's the case.
Just that it's that that we we did

475
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:15.039
not suspend voices on the right,
and we allow those accounts to come back

476
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:21.440
on. So but it's it's gonna
bee. It will it will be seen

477
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.119
as a move to the right because
it was so far left. If you

478
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:25.519
moved, if you moved to the
center from the far left, it will

479
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:29.079
look it is I guess I moved
to the right, but it's really just

480
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:31.440
moved to the center. At least
that's that's the aspiration. Now, now

481
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:36.239
I have my you know, my
own my own views, which personal views

482
00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:39.079
on cuffect, which you know,
I'll continue to speak in my mind as

483
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:44.920
I sort of see if the independent
of the the platform, but the platform

484
00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:51.840
with itself is intended to be fair
and even handed and not biased towards any

485
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:53.000
one account or any any viewpoint