Welcome to Spacing Out with BB and Jason, this week covering Our Flag Means
Death Season one, Episode one pilot. Ye, welcome to spacy Now.
I'm BB and I'm Jason, and today we will be discussing Our Flag Means
Death. Before we start, you should know this podcast is being released on
two different feeds, So if you found it through the Spacing Out with our
Flag Means Death feed, then you are welcome to check out our main feed,
Spacing Out BB and Jason, where you will find this show plus others.
We covered all of Battlestar Galactica, some Star Trek, and then we'll
continue into other series after we finish this one. And since since this is
a new thing, we're starting here with this show, I figured we should
do some introductions again. Oh so, my name is Jason. My pronouns
are he slash him, and let's see. I have a background in film
because I went to film school and I've been kind of in and out of
film production in my career. And then I discovered Our Flag Means Death through
my co host Bby here. Yes, how did you find it? It
was on the internet. A lot people were talking about this really cool,
like subversive pirate show, and I was like interested in it because I like
pirate shows. Like the last good pirate show I saw might have been maybe
like the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. And I heard that there was a
twist in this one that was interesting, and I was like, let's check
it out. And I started watching it and I really enjoyed it. I
thought it had a lot of heart and a lot of like depths of character
development, and the cost doing and the production value was really great. So
I'm like a true like a fanattic and now like I love it. I
follow all their like meme pages and actors. They were affected by the actor
strike so they couldn't post anything, and then when the actor strike was over,
there was like a floodgate of memes from the second season that we're coming
in and like images of them on set that was so exciting to see.
But yeah, I just found it online. It was something that was in
on my radar, and I think it's part of no spoilers, I guess,
but a little bit of a spoiler. It's like a queer centric show,
and I think the queer community really came out for it figuratively and physically.
Yeah. Oh, and I'm I guess I'm not a film person per
se, but I am I love and enjoy film and media in general.
Like We've been doing this podcast for a while and I've always I've enjoyed doing
it, like talking about the different elements of like what makes a show good
and the writing and all that. So I like this show and I'm excited
to get into it. Oh and my pronouns are she they Yeah, And
I was at a little resistant to get into this, so I guess it
should be clear that we've both seen the show already all the way through,
so this is a rewatch for us. I was a little resistant just because
I had just watched another pirate show called Black Sales, which I really enjoyed,
and it just seemed like, on paper, it sounded very similar to
this, but it's really not. But I'll probably bring that show up a
few times while we're podcasting, so be warned. You should also know we're
gonna have a spoiler section at the end of the podcast where we are free
to discuss any future events in the timeline of the series. So if you
are on your first watch of the series, you'll just need to skip that
clearly marked section at the end of the podcast, but otherwise we won't be
spoiling anything past this episode, which is our Flag means Death. Season one,
episode one, title pilot and this aired on March third, twenty twenty
two. Written by David Jenkins who is the creator and showrunner, and directed
by Taikawatiti. In this episode, Steve Bonnett, a wealthy Barbadian landowner,
abandons his wife and children for life as a pirate captain to prevent his crew
from mutanting due to his lack of experiences, He chooses the nearest large ship
for them, the Pillage, which turns out to be a Royal Navy warship
captained by Steed's childhood bully, Nigel Badminton. While the crew pretends to be
aristocrats, Steve unintentionally causes Nigel to stab himself through the eye with the sword,
leaving his crew impressed. Vive check Did we like the episode overall?
How does it stand the test of time? Do we like the episode overall?
Yes? Yes? Bullheardly Yes, Mike. What a great episode to
start like this series, like introducing this cast of characters and n'erty Wells being
bled by this very soft man. Yeah, it definitely sets the tone right
away, like what kind of like a comedy. This is the dynamics of
the crew and the captain and just like yeah, it's it's it's the humor
in that, like they're from very opposing size, but they all have like
one mission. Yeah, and every every character is kind of funny in their
own way, and it's really like there's no one in there that's just like
a I don't know, a straight man type of person, like ridiculous people
on the same boat. Yeah, trivia time, What facts could we uncover
for the pilot episode? All Right, a little bit of trivia about the
episode and the show as a whole. So creator and showrunner David Jenkins was
inspired to write the show after learning about Steve Bonnett from his wife and subsequently
reading his Wikipedia article. Yeah, this is a real story, Like this
is a real man that actually like went out to see and left behind his
like life, his wealthy life life to become the quote unquote, well,
I don't want to say, we'll leave it there. He's just he's like
a real person. It's based in real life, and I think that's really
cool that they are like imagining what it was like for him to be out
at sea as this like fancy boy. Yeah, and just pulling from his
Wikipedia article real quick, Like a lot of what they show in this first
episode is from his real story. So like, he had this ship,
the Revenge, built with the guns on it, and this is very unusual,
as most pirates seize their ships by mutiny, by boarding them or converting
a private vessel. And he enlisted a crew and relied on a quartermaster an
officer for their knowledge of sailing. As results not very respected by his crew.
He paid the crew wages and not shares a plunder, so like,
yeah, they brought all that into the show and it's an interesting creed if
you want to browse his the article, and there's some stuff in there that
I don't want to mention yet because it definitely plays into the storyline of the
actual show too. Yeah, but it's also like very little known history.
Like you think of famous pirates, you don't think of Steve Bomitt Bonnett.
You don't think of Steve Bonnett as a famous pirate or a name that sticks
out. So it's an interesting character to focus on. So Taika, wait,
he became involved as executive producer and a director first, and then he
will later go on to join the cast. Reece Starby He's he plays Steve
Bonnett. He's known for his comedic supporting roles, but he's always has an
opportunity to step into a leading role. And the creator said that he made
an otherwise unlikable Steed Bonnet likable. Yeah, I can see that, Like
you're always kind of rooting for him because he's so inept. Yeah. Theo
Darby, who is ree Starby's son, played the young version of Steve Bonnett.
He was really good, Yeah, picking those flowers and getting blood all
over his face. Then, scenes on The Revenge are filmed on a sound
stage using stagecraft, which is a technology that uses LED screens for the backgrounds,
originally developed from the Mandalorian. So if you ever see like behind the
scenes footage of one of those sound stage, it's actually really cool because it's
like the backgrounds are all pre rendered and they react to how the camera moves
to create the perspective. So that's all they're shooting all these scenes and getting
that good production value on the ship Deep Space Dive. Let's break down some
of our thoughts on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us through
email or social media. We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
All right, what do we do? What do we jump into? Well,
let's talk about how like nurturing and kind and thoughtful Steed Bonnet is portrayed
in this as a leader, and how like that would be an ideal leader
in most situations, Like you would like the environment that he is giving these
men where they are all held in high regard and treated as equals and have
a voice in their Like piracy is so like revolutionary in a way, because
we don't do that anywhere, Like we don't have that kind of structure in
like corporate America or even in like other sectors of business and engagement, Like
that's what we strive for, right, that's what we want to see in
leadership, But capitalism has made it so that it's more like toxic. Like
there's a lot of toxic workplaces, and you would expect a pirate ship to
be a toxic workplace, and that's not the environment at all. Although you
know, people are always going to find something to complain about, and these
pirates obviously do. The crew is like complaining about like not having plundered.
Well, it's such an unusual environment for them that it's uncomfortable. Yeah,
Like they don't want to accept this weird kind of democracy on this pirate ship.
Like there's a way these ships run and it's not by like majority rule
or whatever. Right, we don't we don't all make a flag and then
vote on which flag is the best and then in the end we fly all
the flags. Flags. Those were great, They were great. There was
such a like invigorating part, Like for me, like the whole interaction with
the flags was like the heart of and I think where the show gets its
name in a lot of ways. But it's like, okay, so you
have a complaint. We don't even have a flag. Let's fix that.
Here are some materials where we can create together a symbol that represents us as
a group. And they're all being creative and at first they're like pooh pooing.
They're like, I ain't gonna sew. That's that's a woman's thing.
And he's like, hey, now do you any of you sew? Like
do you think that's like that's not very nice? And uh, one of
the guys, I forget his name now, he's like, I think his
name is Cookie. He's like, I sewed my shoulder up once and he
showed this like huge scar on his shoulder with the stitching, and he's like,
yeah, see, sewing can be tough. And it was just like
the reframing of something that went from negative to positive, so like indicative of
the character of Steve Bonnet and the like unwavering support and like purity of that
character. And I just love that. Like it was so good and everybody
was just sitting there sewing and then uh, because it's like going through comedy,
like it's just casually challenging, like this idea of masculinity. Yeah,
yeah, it's like, let's sew, let's do something together. That's like
traditionally, when you think of a group of people who are sewing, you
think of old women typically like a sewing circle or a quote circle. A
bitch and stitch is what they call them. It's true. Well, I've
been a part of a couple, so I've been I've been familiarized with the
bitch and stitch and it's a great like communal space to create and and do
like expel grievances and and and also like just and that is kind of where
they come up with their plan to mutiny, So it harbors creativity and in
more ways than not, and fucking buttons. He's like hearing everybody and he's
like straight to the captain. He's gonna snitch. I thought that was interesting.
Yeah, his loyalty to the captain in this episode, Like he's the
one who announces him at the very first sight of him. He's like,
everybody, pay attention or to your captain. That was him announcing. And
you can see him always at the wheel, so you can tell that he
has a high ranking position within the crew. That's kind of cool to see
him like be loyal to Steve Bonnett and be like, hey, captain,
you got mutiny afoot. Yeah, it's interesting just because I mean we're not
going to spoil anything with these characters, but like the first time watching,
like it's a lot of characters to take in. Yeah, and so like
by the end of the season or the series, like you have a much
or a grass with these characters. So it's always interesting to come back to
the start and like see everyone at the beginning of their role and really like
I'm more familiar with who they are, and I can kind of just follow
their stories a little better. Yeah, Yeah, I think it's really interesting
to see them unfold. I really like Gosh, I always forget I'm so
bad at names. I hate myself for that. But the documentarian, the
one who is annotating everything that Steve Bonnet is saying, Lucius Lucius. So
Lucius is also in a high ranking position, which is close to the pet
captain, and it doesn't seem like he likes it too much already off the
bat, like, because he was like, I'm down for the mutiny,
y'all. But one of the things that Steve Bonnett said was that I have
a library, we have a wreck room, we have this like wonderful ship
with all these amenities. And he's like, but nobody's taken me up on
the library except you, Lucius. And he's like, well, I'm the
only one who can read. And he's like, that's not true, Like
he doesn't want to believe. Yeah, he's so out of touch with what
these reality's giving him, like a wreck room and a library. Yeah,
reading them stories at night, which actually like yeah, they really like that,
and they don't the only thing that saves him from mutiny that day was
that Lucius can't do the Pinocchio voice. So I feel like there's a lot
of like lightheartedness in this show that is really like endearing. I don't know,
it's really good. And then like that rude one that wanted to do
the mutiny who said he used to sail with Blackbeard, who's like stir in
the pot that is black Peat, black Pete. Okay, Well, he
automatically assigns himself as leader in the vacuum structure that would like create like a
void in a leadership role. And they're like, I don't know what about
Jim, And Jim is a mute allegedly, and we note and then at
the end of the scene or at the end of the episode, we see
that Jim has a false identity yes, and can't talk yeah, And I'm
not sure how to say his name al I think they call him Alli.
That's Jim's friend that is aware of Jim's identity. He's also a hang ranking
member from the crew based on the fact that he ran to the captain's aid
when he accidentally murdered uh that guy. It was him and Lucius that ran
in and were like, what's what do you need what's going on? So
you can tell, like who's close to the captain in this episode a little
bit more, and like I like the advice he gave him where he's like
no, like do you want to live? Like no? Do you?
Like? Are you like he snapped him into reality because like in this episode
we get a glimpse of a baby Bonnet that's his like the name they teased
him with. But he was a baby, He was a little boy,
and you could tell that he had sensitive like tendencies. He had a very
gentle way about him picking flowers and like flinching at the sight of like foul
being like slaughtered and prepared. And his father was so rude to him,
What a terrible father, Like that's so sad. And then like even in
his home life as an adult man, in his home life, his wife
seems to hate him, Like his kids seem cool or whatever, very distant.
Like the way that they set the table where he was at one end
and everybody else was on the other end near mom. Yeah, that was
weird because like, well, no, that's like how you set the scene
though, That's how you can tell a story without saying anything. That he
has it works, Yeah, but it is weird and jarring in a family
to have dad sit all the way over there. But if that's their normal,
that would I mean, I could see what would drive him to like
fantasize and dream about being out in the open sea in a place where he
creates his own family. Yeah. And then near the end of the episode,
when he's kind of reminiscing fondly over his family, you see he has
pulled his chair around to the side and is up next to them. So
that's a very good like visual language, like a shortcut just to tell us
that there's you know. Yeah. But so the episode you can see that
like it's going to deal a lot with trauma, and you get you highlight
Steed's childhood trauma throughout the episode with his father and his family and his bully.
And then also like how he's approaching the crew to like talk things out,
like if you have you have experiences, if you experience PTSD during a
raid, what do we do we talk about it as a crew, Like
I think that this is a moniker. This is one of the anchors of
what like draws in the queer community to this show because the queer community has
a deep foundation with chosen family, and I think this this show is like
like the show is showing chosen family how they can come together, how there
is like a parental figure who is guiding these like misfits who don't fit into
society and they're there's nurturing and there's understanding, and I think that speaks to
a lot of us when we have chosen family like that. It's not specifically
queer, but most queer family like people like you know, they get rejected
from their home life and they are not welcomed into their households, and so
they there's a creation of an outside family that is sometimes stronger than the blood
relations that you have, clearly because if a blood relation was strong, it
would it wouldn't cause that riff because of a gender identity or or a sexual
orientation. But I think, yeah, this this is driving deep and I
think this is what has really touched the the like LGBTQ like viewership in a
way that's like made them like like I don't know, just like the Champion
the show like that. I don't know how many memes you've seen of like
Steve Bonnett and as a cartoon anime QT, but I've seen so many.
Yeah, I don't know. So, like another display of this kind of
chosen family aspect of it is like you you know, you see all these
men on the ship and they're essentially all equals and there's never any mention of
race. But then when they have to pretend to be a part of you
know, regular society, right with their wigs and fancy boy outfits, the
you know, the white men are sitting at the table and the black and
brown men are servants. And so like their ship you know, doesn't have
all these you know, cultural what am I trying to say, hierarchies,
Yes, like a racial hierarchy doesn't exist in this like semi utopian ship.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love the fact that like one of
the crew members throws a knife into the hand of like the British soldier for
insulting his crew member, Like you insulted my crew member because of the color
of their skin, and so you will pay for that, And that's what
like causes the violence in that in that part of the ship. I love
that the British officer said that their tea tasted like dishwater because it was probably
dishwater. I don't think they have property unless it's had a Steed's cabin.
Steed surely has proper tea. Yeah, but you think they had enough time
to prepare property. I don't know. They seemed pretty focused on the wardrobe.
Yeah, I uh, But I thought that was interesting that, like
the British officers were definitely like so upset that the black and brown individuals in
the ship were had opinions and were voicing them. Well, it's because they
came up and they found the fucking flags. They were going through the flags
and laughing at them, and the crew took it very personally because everyone was
so passionate about the flag that they created. Yeah, and everybody had their
vision and they were like really confused about like the like what is this a
bit a pillowcase? And they're like, no, it's a pirate flag.
And he's like, is this a skull eating another skull? Were they cannibals?
And then there was one where one of them was just throwing up but
I thought that was so creative. And then the skeleton holding its own head
that was Swedes, and you could tell Swede was like that is terrifying.
And then the cat. The cat was my favorite because of the beliefs that
Frenchie has about cats. They are witches with knives on their hands who steal
the breath of children. Yes, he is so superstitious, and I don't
recall if there's ever a scene with him and a cat, but I hope
there is. But yeah, they were like really upset and Frenchie was defending
his cat flag. It was the last flag that they were like looking at
before Jim stabbed that front, that British officer through the hand and then all
hell bred close and Steed was reminiscing quote unquote reminiscing with his ex his bully.
He's still bullying him about like what they've been up to, I guess,
and he's like, what's his name, the British officer or the general
or what is he is? Bully? Yeah? Was Nigel? Nigel?
Nigel? Well, Nigel is like I heard a rumor that you left your
family to become a pirate and Steed's like, yeah I did, and he's
like haha, no way, and he doesn't believe him. He laughs at
him again, you know, like I don't know how humiliating would that be
to to confront your bully. You're living the life you want to live,
but they like to mean you for it still, like they don't believe that
you're living the life you're living and that you're capable of it. And I
could see like Steed before they went to like pillage or whatever pirate, he
asked a couple of the crew members like for some pointers on how to like
fight in general, and Jim was there, and Jim was like, that's
trying to like show him like how to handle a sword, and well,
what's his name, Jim's friend his short name, uh, Alie Ali Allie
Allie he he uh. He's like, that's kill, that's kill, that's
kill, that's a kill, And that triggered Steeds like PTSD and he's like,
no, I don't want to kill anybody, Like how do I stun
somebody? How do I just like render them? Like what is the word
unconscious? Unconscious? Yeah? And they're like, oh, you just hit
him in the back of the head. And he was like calling that back
when he was with Nigel because Nigel had Nigel had his sword out and Steed
hits him on the back of the head with this little brass whale the cutest
little brass whale I've ever seen, and he knocks him unconscious, but he
falls straight onto his sword and that's when Ollie comes back and he's like,
oh no, you want to live, right, you have to snap out
of it. You did this on purpose. This is how you gain respect
from your crew and you live another day. And I think that advice,
like the way that he spoke to him, like some of us need that
where somebody like grabs you and shakes you and looks at you and says,
hey, this is real, this is happening, Like, oh shit,
I really enjoyed that. I feel like his crew is like saving his life
and he he has. He comes up with a plan to send back one
of the British officers in a similar fashion of how he was tormented as a
child, where they tie his hands to the ore of a ship and make
him row back and they keep a couple of hostages. And I'm interested to
see what happens next, Like it's it's a really good episode to like establish
the crew, give us the dynamics and tell us what the story is,
while also wanting you to check in for the next one, like what's going
to happen with these weird cast of characters. Yeah, it really it establishes
Steed very well. I mean he's the one character that got really kind of
fleshed out with backstory and everything, and you kind of see that he's kind
of this bumbling idiot who's going to stumble backwards into you know, things working
out and he's starting to win over his crew slowly. Astoral queen who was
the standout character in the episode? So this is, you know, a
character that stands out in any way, shape or for him, whether they
be the hero of the episode or someone who you know experiences something traumatic or
does something funny or just relatable or whatever we choose. Yeah, and at
the end of the series will kind of tally up and see who is the
astral queen overall? Was your astral queen for this first episode? I was
gonna pick Ollie? Yeah, Yeah, because he he's the one that's like
he kind of saves the day with calming down Steed and getting him to recognize
like what he needs to do with this situation having killed Nigel and how he
needs to kind of own that and use that. And he's also one that's
like, you know this life he's created for us, isn't that bad?
Yeah, he sees the reality of what it could be. And that's what
I picked him too. Yeah, I pick him too because he's he's a
really strong care character even though he's not he doesn't I don't know if he's
quite a main character yet because we don't know a lot about him, but
he is definitely a standout character. Like his end his acting is really good,
and we don't see a lot of like dark skin fat people on TV,
and he is like very present, very visible, and very like very
much contributing to the storyline and moving it forward in a way that is positive
and engaging and realistic in a lot of ways, like he brings reality to
the table in a show where it's very it's a little fantastical. So yeah,
I like his portrayal of this character and I'm excited to see what this
character does moving forward, especially because he knows Jim's secret. Yeah, so
that's interesting. All right. Well, that's two astral Queen Awards for him
start off strong. So the next episode, episode two, is called a
Damned Man, And so, I mean there's eighteen episodes of the show,
so hopefully over the next eighteen weeks, we'll stay on track and cover them
all. But that wraps it up for this episode, and we're going to
go into our spoiler section where we're free to discuss anything else from the season
and next season. So if you haven't seen any of those episodes, then
you'll want to jump ship now you've found that pun with me. But otherwise
stick around and we'll talk spoilers. Let's put our living stereo stylists in this
group. Grace for imtact spoilers ahead. If you haven't seen the whole series,
now is the time to say goodbye. Remember you can contact us at
Spacingoutpod at gmail dot com, find us on social media, share your thoughts
and be a part of the discussion spoilers in five for three two one.
Oh my god, I'm counting down the days the episodes for black Beard,
right, yeah, so awesome in this Like I'm so excited the show,
Like I wish I could watch it over with new eyes again. Like I
know it's gonna happen and it's gonna be great, but I wish I could
like be surprised. It is interesting, like the show takes a moment to
establish itself before bringing in black Beard and bringing in the you know, the
turn of the This is like a romantic story. Yeah, yeah, this
is this is a different show, and it does turn. But then there's
also an element of like, like they go through so much black Beard and
Steed, and in this in this season specifically, Steed helps Blackbeard open up
to being a vulnerable person and wanting more out of his life than just like
Murder and Mayhem, and Blackbeard show Steed how to be a real pirate.
And I think they give each other so much, and that's rooted in some
truth like that no one knows a lot about, like why they sailed together,
but black Beard and Steed Bonnet really sailed together. Yeah. Yeah,
that's in the Wikipedia page, which is, yeah, the source of all
truth. Yeah, and so yeah, I mean the show fills in the
gaps with this romantic storyline. But well, and honestly, if you think
about it, piracy, there's no way there wasn't gay sex and gay shit
going on on that boat. A bunch of dudes on a ship for months
at a time. What else were they gonna do for a fun And also
they're outcasts, they're people who are not wanted in society. Who is that
I feel like, And I feel like, you know, within pirate culture,
there is like this flamboyance. There is like this like I don't know,
just kind of like adornment and like style element that was only accessible for
the most part to the rich. But because these men had access to loot,
they were able to accessoriz and get tattoos or peer scenes and do different
body modifications. And I don't know, I just I find it very hard
to believe that there wasn't gay shit going on on a pirate ship. Like
give me an orange so I don't get scurvy and let me suck that dick.
Baby. It's kind of like the same thing that happens in prison,
where men who don't typically code themselves as queer engage in queer activity as a
form of survival or as a form of escape from the reality of like the
hard conditions that you live in. So it's very much like I'm like,
that's kind of how I see it in some ways, Like you can't tell
me they'ren't gay shit going on in prison. You can't tell me they're engage
shit going on in piracy. Yeah, And I brought up the show Black
sales earlier, and in that show, like the Captain of the Ship,
it's like at first, like it's kind of confusing, like why was this
like upstanding guy, why did he transition to being a pirate? And then
later it's revealed like, oh, he was a gay man and he was
not being accepted in his life in England, So like, yeah, I
think that is a pirate society is where you might land. Yeah, it's
open, it's free, it's lawless, the standards of society are different and
probably more accepting. Later on in the show, we're going to find out
that there's like a pirate queen from China. Women were allowed to do things
in pirate ships and in pirate like settings that they weren't allowed to do in
general society. So it's very interesting to explore this and to see it represented
on so to like diverse cast is so cool because I feel like, yeah,
if you're sailing in Barbados and in the Caribbean, of course you're going
to have black and brown people on board. But I don't know, it's
interesting because the white supremacy is still real and I like how they address it
in this show, like how they're not they're like, that's not cool,
bro, I like that. I don't know, but I'm excited. Yeah,
definitely looking forward to everything that come and this, like specifically how this
show highlights multiple queer relationships and queer characters. Oh yeah, there's a trouple
in the second season. Yeah, and you know, I'd forgotten that,
Like Jim was like undercover at the beginning. But Jim is a non binary
character. Jim is a non binary person as an actor to Vico Ortis is
a non binary person. Yeah, playing a non binary character, which is
really hard in Hollywood, Like Hollywood, will I are a straight white man
to play like a queer Asian person, you know what I mean. So
I think it's like very subversive in the casting and the directing and the storytelling.
It's all very like today. It's of the time, and I just
love it. But it's also set in the world where people couldn't even think
about that in a way, but it's like normal for them. I love
it. It's like great, it's like revisionist history but with a queer twist
and a multi cultural lens. And I kind of love that for us,
and I think we can leave it at that. Yeah, all right,
so we will see you next time for the episode of Damned Man. Until
then, thank you for sailing on the revenge and watch out for cats because
they have knives on their feet. Thank you for spacing out with Bob and
Jason. You can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive rating or
review. Next time we will cover our Flag Means Death season one, episode
two, a Damned Man. We hope you will join us