Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO
news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your
host, Alejandro Roja. Hello and welcome to Open Minds Radio. I hope
you are enjoying your Memorial Day. Hopefully you have the day off and you're
out barbecuing and having fun, because that's what we're doing. We're actually not
in the office. This is not live. Instead we pre recorded or actually
this is an interview I recorded five six years ago with Darryl Simms, the
alien hunter, and after spending a weekend together when we brought him out to
Denver, we sat down and I was able to get him to talk about
some of the interesting stories he has accumulated over the years. I hope you
enjoyed the show. The first thing I would like to start with is just
a general background, well my background in terms of as an investigator. My
background, I was in the Military Police for three years as a volunteer during
the Vietnam War. Soon after that, the Central Intelligence Sagency contacted me,
through me and a number of other people, about sixty of us in the
military police school and we had no idea who they were. Long story shortest,
we simply ended up in Central Intelligence Agency in a covert operations group for
two years. So my background investigating as a police officer for three years,
two years as someone that was in the intelligence business, and the fact I've
been a private investigator and a process server licensed in the state of Texas,
all this moves together toward my area of investigations on physical evidence of those who
alleged humidiated in contact. And then when did you move on to hypnotherapy and
in particular working with abductees. I've been working in hypnotherapy about fifteen years.
I learned that specifically not for the purpose of abductions, but specifically for the
purpose of accelerated learning and things that I was very interested in doing. I
ran some sensory deprivation tanks about fifteen years ago, wet and dry tanks,
and would train professionals who were concert pianists and concert guitarists. And as an
example, the Houston Classical Guitar Society paid me two thousand dollars for presentation on
how for them to do play better and performed better using some of our techniques
which I used the worst and the very best of their people, the president
and one of the lowest members, and the results were startling to all those
who listened. Is there a particular moment or something that an event perhaps that
drove you to move? And I delved so deeply that abducta actually that there
was. My abduction started in nineteen fifty two when I was four years old,
and they ended violently thirteen years later in nineteen sixty five. As far
as I was concerned, that was it and everything was over. Trauma's great,
you know it's over. You know. I had no idea what stuff
was all about. Just knew that it was real. It was happening to
me, and I said, kept a lot of it quiet. I kept
it quiet for my family because the events were over. The only problem is
when I was my son was about six years old, he experienced his first
subduction, and of course that just opened up the biggest can of worms you
can imagine for the family. My wife wouldn't know what was going on,
and so I had to tell her and said, it's in the family lineage
and it won't affect everybody, but it will affec sun and fortunately it's not
affected my daughter or my grandchildren, which I am grateful for, but it
almost destroyed my son's life. Was your wife aware of your situation or even
with the field in general before this happened, not at all. I kept
all this away from my family. I did not want anybody to know this
stuff. So one of the things that we were really interested in bringing it
to Colorado for was related to an incredible case that we've had in the last
few years, and where from your research, one of our investigators decided to
try the black light. Okay, the first of all discovered the florescence phenomena
in nineteen ninety two. Discovered it while looking at one of our abductees and
we found a Mandelbrot set type marking on the inside of her left arm.
She freaked out, literally started rand to the bathroom, started scrubbing like a
rape victim, and try to get off. It just got brighter. You
can't get the stuff off. It's subdermal on contact. If it's from the
alien entity, whoever, whatever they are. The fluorescence is different than phosphorescence.
Phosphorescence is a totally different situation. We do find some phosphorescent materials in
some adduction scenarios. But for the most part, in the rare cases that
we do find this stuff, it is generally fluorescence which will which has a
certain animeter length of various different kinds of fluorescences do, and that gives us
an idea of what wavelength it is, so that we can actually make some
kind of determination about the material and whether it may be in fact alien or
something else. And what was it that made you first look at the fluorescence
or give you the idea. Well, the DSP satellite especially asked me the
same question years ago in nineteen ninety five, and I said, because the
alien sees an infrared, violet, and visible light in my opinion, And
he says, we'll give you an example. I said, well, you
know these people who you know, try to turn on their cameras and film
their rebductions all day. He said, y'all notice that they can't do it.
Cameras turned off in the morning, or nobody showed up. It's like
somebody already can see what's already lit up in the room. They know what's
going on. And I says, it doesn't mean they can't be filmed,
doesn't mean they can't even be captured. You're not going to do it that
way, because you're playing into their hand, and it's like a blind person
saying, Oh, all I've got to do is just to keep moving around
here. And these people are seeing in the room. They won't notice if
I try to hide or something, it's just not going to happen. You're
playing a game that you can't win. So you have to understand the nature
of what they see, how they see, and what they do, and
you have to allow for that. Once you do, you may be real
surprised that the results you're going to get. And I think we're going to
be able to prove that. I think some of the evidence already does.
The Florescent marketings themselves shows a trace upon these people left by the alien entity.
It's like some kind of a sweat, for lack of a better term,
an alien fingerprint, so to speak, left on people that penetrates their
skin subdermly on contact. If you can wash it off or get it off,
we don't even want to know about it. This stuff will come off.
It'll literally be absorbed in the skin by the body in about twenty four
hours, and in most cases we have had rare cases where it lasted up
to two weeks, but again that is extremely rare. So in some of
the cases you get a sweat where it seems like an entity had come in
contact with the subject in that areas for us, and although sometimes you also
find symbols, the casual contact fluores since it gets on these people is often
like long finger marks where they've touched you, or just like sweat maybe on
your hand where they held you or you held them. That sort of thing
will show up. The markings themselves that involve geometric patterns, such as a
things such as maybe like a little pyramid like or triangle shape, or some
other moon shape or some form like that in the strange little markings, and
these are very deliberately placed on there's no question about it. Either it was
done by a machine or something else. It's very deliberate about what it is,
and it seems to be in most cases the same coloration and the same
nnimeter length as the other. What do you find more? Do you find
more of the sweat type marks or more of the symbols? What is a
percentage? Well, that's since we usually cannot get to an abductee within the
first twenty four hours, could they usually tell you this stuff. About a
month or two later, then you realize, you know, we've already lost
this that aspect of it. It's kind of hard to answer that question because
there's not enough stats to really verify that. But the fact is that the
generally speaking, the touch type things, the casual contact, seems to be
more prevalent. The more startling, of course, is the symbols, because
those are very deliberate. I mean, if you see a mandol brought set
on the inside of your urn in fluorescence in brilliant blue, this raises a
degree of a worm about who's where have you been and who's been living your
life and doing things to you you don't even have a clue about, right,
So I don't think it was sleep paralysis. Sleep proalysis doesn't have to
do with any type of fluorescence. But with the symbols, do you find
mandelbrats are more complicated shapes like that, or do you find more simplistic type
shapes. Most of the symbols we're finding are, in my opinion, fairly
simplistic. For instance, ay, there may be a crescent moon, or
it may be triangular forms and so on. But the more complicated forms we
they are fairly rare. We found one semi complicated form. In my opinion,
I was semi complicated on a doctor in Phoenix that was back in nineteen
ninety four. And her case was extraordinary as far as I'm concerned, because
not only did she find the marking, did I find the marking on her
shoulder. But the fact is, shortly thereafter after I left the conference that
day, she noted to me within about four days later that she had been
missing for three days, and she said, I have flora. I got
one of those black lights, and she said, mister Simms, I have
florescence from my neck, on my breast, on my stomach, on my
thighs, on my shins, tops of my feet. I have fluorescence on
my pubic hair. I have florescence in my vagina. And she says,
I have the slightest idea how any of it got here? How did she
find that out? She found that out simply by following my instructions the night
before when I examined her, and she took off. She I say took
off. Many some abductees simply take off in an event. For instance,
they'll say I went out. I felt like I should leave, you know.
So I went driving around three o'clock in the morning and I saw a
three foot wounded owl walking down the street. Well, there aren't any three
foot owls wandering around the streets with large black guys. There just aren't any.
So what they're seeing is a screensaver memory where this situation is happening.
And this lady just took off for three days, left her husband, left
everybody, and just took off and disappeared for three days. Comes back to
Floresce's from head to toe. She did something rather remarkable. She literally took
the Florisian sample if I asked her to, and placed it actually on slides.
I was shocked that she would do such a nice thing. Were you
able to examine that. We've had several attempts to have flores since examined,
usually because the samples are quite small. Quite you can imagine scraping just a
few cell levels down on somebody's skin and trying to send that off to scientists.
And first of all, most of the time that's usually contaminated because they
you're going to use like a kitchen knife or something like that, rather than
something's clinically clean and you know, clinically available that's just normally not going to
happen. So as a result these samples Phyllis. Buttinger has been of a
great help to us. Others have to eve. Lorgan's helped us with some
of it, but by and large, there is nothing conclusive at this point.
It has been an anecdotal and interesting, but it's it's nothing conclusive,
nothing scientific that I have to report. We are very interested in the flores
since I have a top optics professor who contacted me one time from a major
universe and he was so delighted over the fluorescence. He said, I'll if
you want to publish this, he said, I'll help you get it published
in the scientific journal. And I said, well, DOCA said, you
know, without being crude here, I said, I'm not going to get
published in the scientific journal. That's just not going to happen, not a
refereed scientific journal. He said, yes, you will, he said,
if I have to help you write it, I will, and you will
be published. And this guy's an eminent professor, I mean, he's known
worldwide. And I said, so. We talked for a while longer,
and he said some other things that were rather stunning to me. I mean
I was not prepared for his comments because generally scientists and others don't walk in
and look at the UFO field and say anything really complimentary. And he said,
he asked the question and were kind of a philosophical question. He says,
what do you think of yourself? And I said, well, that's
what you mean? He said, well, he said, you did these
surgeries. He said, I am stunned. He said, I am amazed
and stunned. He said, and it took enormous courage for you to do
that. And I said, how could I not do it? If that's
what I do, it is the only logical and right thing to do.
So I did. And I said, but we did surgeries long before the
public ones. I said, people just don't know that. You know,
I haven't told people that. But he said, well, anyway, I
want to know what you think of yourself. And I said, well,
I said, I think of myself more. I guess it's like a pioneer.
He said, what is a pioneer to you? I said, A
pioneer someone who will go where others cannot go or won't go, or don't
know how to go. And he sends back maps. He said, what
kind of maps would those be. I said, well, sir, I
said, they would be maps that scared men in academia. Could you without
losing their careers? He giggled, and I said, I would like to
ask you a question, if you don't mind. He said, okay.
I said, what do you think of me? He said, well,
you're not a pioneer. I said, how's that. He said, well,
there are four levels of civilization. Pioneer is the second level. He
said, you're an explorer. That's the first level. He said, I
don't mind telling you there aren't any explorers in the UFO field. You're the
first one. And I said, well, he said, no, you're
the first one, and that's old there is to it. He said,
now I'm in a position I think I can say that. So I'm I'm
just my tongue's hanging out of my mouth. I didn't know what to say.
It's well, you're very kind and everything, and so that was in
that conversation. So his interest, his interest in a call, for the
most part, was involved with the forests. He felt that that discovery,
in his opinion, as one of the top people in his field, he
felt that that was one of the greatest discoveries ever made in the entire uful
field and spoke to d Richard Hogland last year at Roswell. I speak at
Roswell every year and host events there with for the Roswell Museum in and through
them. In fact, our work is on display there and in the circumstance
Richard Hoagland and I had a long discussion with several other people of my friend
of Mike Kaiser of Optics of Ancient Languages professor and others that were present,
Pat Gray, my conference designer, and so on, and we all discussed
the fluorescence issue and he he had some very strong views about what the fluorescence
might be. To him. It was he had these different views, and
finally I questioned him, I said, well, what do you think this
is really about? He said, I think the fluorescence was given to you.
He said, I think it's a gift. I think it was placed
there for you to find, and they knew you'd find it. I said,
you basically, you feel like I'm being set up in a positive way
and he said, he said, I think you've been blessed with this.
I think you need to do something with it. And he said, I
think it's an energy signature. I said, well it isn't. It's not.
It's a chemical signature, and it's not. He said, well,
I think you're wrong, And I said, well, you don't have any
evidence, and I do, so what do you think I think? So?
I mean, this is just I said. If I'm wrong, I'll
let you know. But right now, I said, I'm going to go
with the chemical compound and we're going to stay with that until unless something else
shows up. Differently, I said, and I hope you're right, but
I have no evidence to support that. The doctor was going to help you
write the paper for the scientific journal. Did you move on and actually write
that paper or haven't? I told the doctor. I said, well,
sir, I said, you don't mind me saying this. I said,
but we don't have enough information to write a paper. We have no real
finds, we have no scientific validation. Yet we have anecdotal evidists. And
he said, I understand that. He said, but Darrely, he said,
this is just incredible. I mean, people are talking about abductions in
terms of being some psychological philomena or this that or whatever. He said,
Here you are coming up with physical evidence that it's real physical touch in places
these people describe, and in a coloration pattern that you know, And he
said that you kept very quiet about. He said, you know that there's
some kind of a pattern to this thing. There's the colors represent various things.
I said, well, it seems to represent different types of experiences,
different type of things going on with people. So he was quite interested in
that. And I don't feel at this point. And it's taken me thirty
eight years to write my first book and I'm almost finished, so it's not
like I'm in a big hurry. Right. How long ago was it that
you first came across before us? Since I came across flores since in nineteen
ninety two in a case working with a lady who she's actually a millionaire.
Her husband had just been incarcerated in the federal system for I don't know what
his crimes were, white collar crimes, but she was an abductee and I
spoke with her and worked with her several times, had my senior investigator working
with her at first, and then he got to a point that some of
her experiences were profound, to say the very least, and she was having
a tough time with her experiences. In other words, let me give you
an example of how tough her experiences were. She would come to session with
my senior investigator, Dale Musser, with her therapist. She would often get
migraines from talking about this experience and would end up having to go emergency room.
So Dale brought me in and the therapist was there, and I said,
well, I said, down next to us. How do you feel?
She said just fine? And I said, well, I'm a hypnotic
anesthesia therapist. She's what does that mean. I said, you know those
horrible little headaches you've been having about these experiences. She says, yes,
so I can make them go away. She just looked at me and teared
up, and she says, you can do that. I said, sure,
I can do all kinds of things. There is nothing they've done to
you. They can't be undone. Well with this, we got talking and
all of a sudden, she started describing one of the most horrific events I've
ever heard in my life. It was so similar to the event that I
had when I was seven, and my last event was violent. I realized,
this is the same guy. It's not any guy that shows up in
the literature. And then she she said, I'm ugly. I said,
well, you might not have looked in the mirror, late lead, but
you're one of the prettiest women I've ever seen. There are very few women
I've ever seen this pretty. And so there's not anybody, your therapist or
anybody in this room doesn't believe that. She says, no, I'm ugly.
And apparently this entity one of the things he did was to contort her
face in such way you like with electricity, if you ever had like something
electronic hit you, it can contort your muscles in your face so horribly.
And she started getting this migraine at this time, talking about it. And
as she got this migraine, her face contorted, and the most ugly looking
thing I've ever seen in my life. I mean, here's this beautiful woman
turning this. I mean it looked like some kind of witch. You knows.
Well, that's the weirdest thing. And I mean, this therapist is
sitting there freaking out anything like whatever that and they'll sit there with his eyes
wide and everything. And I said, and she starts crying and everything,
and her head starts killing her. And I said, you want me to
make it go away, and she starts crying, she just please do and
I said okay, and then so I did that, and then I showed
her how to remove these migraines herself. Well, needless to say, she
was elated, and we never saw a therapist. A gin therapist didn't.
Maybe therapist didn't come back because she's what what's going on. And the second
reason is the fact that the lady said, you know, I can take
care of this myself now I'm in control. So the therapist never came back.
And I mean, you're able to solve her migraine issue, but the
repeated abduction issue is that something that you were able to help her with.
Also, well, we've had people that have tried to have asked us to
make their abduction stop, and that there is no real guarantee to anybody that
you can make it stop. Just because my kind stopped. Maybe there's some
hints there. My senior investigator in one of his subductions asked it because these
aliens seemed to like him. I don't know why, but they he's very
friendly and very he's not violent in any way, and he's they've abducted him
for all his life. And they seemed to be able to manipulate him or
handle him very well, so to speak. And one day he said,
why don't you ever abduct Dyyl anymore? And it's interesting he couldn't pronounce my
name rot, but they could. And they said, Darryl is uncooperative.
And that's all I'd say. It is interesting that hadn't been abducted in thirty
some years, and they knew who I was. They knew exactly who he
was talking about. These guys are all on the same database. Everybody says,
all are different, the grades are different. To Mantis is this and
the Nordics are wonderful and these other guys are awful. They're all on the
same team. We've seen all of them on the same ship at the same
time. And the mass subductions in December eighth and December eleventh, nineteen ninety
two, eight people abducted at the same time, same place, on two
separate nights in December nineteen ninety two, and they all saw the same guys
all lined up. This is pretty good evidence that the theory that they're all
separate groups out there doing their own thing doesn't hold a lot of water.
With those particular seven entities that showed up on that craft. Getting back to
the fluorescence, and I definitely want to hit more on what you're getting at
there. I have some more questions relating to that. If I want to
wrap up the fluorescents stuff, what are your future plans you have plans to
document the fluorescence or perhaps to immediately get an abductee into a hospital where they
can get an actual analysis of what's going on with the fluorescence, or what
are your plans that way and researching that or discovering more about it. Well,
we're doing a serious procedures. One of the things I did today for
the Denver Moufon group here your group, was to pass out two documents which
we have provided that allow it gives procedures for collecting evidence and for storing that
evidence so that it can be analyzed. So the more cases we can get.
Is I spoke to Ethan about this because he's one of my colleagues is
helping in this area here in Colorado. Rich rich Is Investigations, the investor
investigat chief of your investigations here and a remarkably good man, and I've directed
him a number of times on this field and will continue to do so.
The issue is that florescence is not easily nor readily would not be readily analyzed
in any kind of hospital setting. First of all, this type of evidence
is minuscule for the most part. Second, it has to be collected in
a in a reasonably forensic type setting where it's not going to be contaminated,
and most of the time that's not going to happen. And here there are
these people who are well meaning and but don't know how to collect that evidence.
And often by the time you know it, it's gone. We've had
two cases of fluorescence this week, and in fact, with the two ladies
I visited down in her husband down in Arkansas this week before I did my
CNN interview for two days, both of those people end up with fo US
since on them after I left. So we're real curious to find out what
that's about. But our interest is to develop a system whereby and I'm attempting
to get another university on board with us through this forensic v PhD. And
if he comes on board and helps us out, I'm sure he'll point us
the right direction where we can be. But we did have a PhD trying
to help us at the York University in Canada. The problem is his standards
were so strict you practically would have to bring fly the person up and place
them in front of him and allow him to do everything, and then it
might not be enough. I mean it just standards was just so strict that
it just made no sense. He didn't even want to see it unless it
was under these austere perfect conditions. Well, that's just not going to happen
in most cases. I guess just to wrap up for us, since one
other thing that I thought was really interesting is just that Phyllis Spuddinger, who
you had mentioned. She spoke at our last symposium for moufon talking about the
invisibility properties of UFOs some other people jose Eskami, I'm not sure if you're
familiar with him. He does their rods work. He's lately been trying to
he's gotten lots of footage where that's what he's doing. He's using infrared to
get UFO footage and supposedly he's found a lot of it. He's got a
lot of great footage. He's just trying to find financing to get these into
movie format. And then another real popular one Another person who was at last
year's at Moufon symposium, David Serta, where he looks at NASA video where
NASA has been doing filming in the infrared, and seeing just almost like soup,
just hundreds and thousands of things out there that NASA has gotten. I
guess my last question would be, as far as the symbols that you see,
the only other symbols really that are very popular that might be related to
UFOs would be crop circles. Do you ever see any symbols that are similar
to crop circles in any way? We've not seen any symbols of that nature
on the abductees. There are a couple of reasons that may be true.
One is because the which is an opinion of my and based on some based
on a lot of good evidence, and based on some of my colleagues who
have done some excellent work in the crop circle business. And I've said this
long before it ever became public under Colin Andrews, my friend who privately and
now publicly admits that at least eighty percent of the crop circles are frauds.
And we're not talking about the Dave and Doug stupidity we're talking about circles that
look remarkably good. And I've said this long before they did their study where
he was paid to do this study and did an excellent work on it,
that in fact, it was my view that the intelligence community was replicating those
with microwaves and had been going on for some time. Of Course, people
ask, well, why in the world would they do that. Well,
because they know which ones are correct and real. Then they do a bunch
of new ones. Now they know which one are and you don't have a
clue. Well, unfortunately a lot of UFO people, that doesn't matter.
They're all real, right, and they take all these pictures, make these
big conferences and say, look at the next one. You hear this,
whoa, and you know at least eighty percent of them are just as big
frauds you've ever seen. It doesn't make any difference. These people. They
promote this stuff like it came out of burning bush or something, and it
didn't. That's really interesting because I thought you were going to go somewhere else
with that. Ron Russell another great local researcher. He's on he's in the
same area where he's thinking most of these things. In fact, he thinks
the most spectacular are actually human made, although he thinks that to me by
artists who do it all truistically. And he finds some interesting properties there.
Simeon Hines's partner finds out also, but that's a very interesting theory to the
microwave theory. I hadn't heard that before. It would account for the way
the nodules being popped and everything else. Just like these other people say,
well, only a microwave could do that, I'm not arguing that point.
I'm just telling you all you have to do is program in the right computer
and aim your microwave there, and you can cook it. I'll give you
an example of that. My friend, and you probably know him. Uh
he's the he's uh called the uh biggest news guy in uphology in Mexico is
Jiman Massan. And he says, hey, d O, why don't you
come down to Mexicota hunt the super cobras. And I said, well,
I guess if I came down to hunt the supergabras, I said, uh,
ohhimid be there his camera, wouldn't he. Yeah, he said it'd
be a good team. You know, this would be a good thing for
us. And I said, well, I said, first of all,
you haven't proved to me the chup of cobbras what they are yet. There's
something down there killing animals. But we hadn't proven mean what it is.
I said, but let's take the viewpoint that it's real and it's a animal
that's run sucking the blood out. It's a goat sucker, like like the
name means. Let's suppose that's true. He said, can you track you?
Can you catch you? And I said, well, I can give
him a radio isotope, lace it in his food supply, and then I
can track you. I said, I'm a hundred that's what I do.
The second thing, I said, if I can see him, I said,
I've got a guy that's volunteer to give me a six foot microwave dish.
If I can see him, I can cook him. So I think
I can get him. But you got to show to me, first of
all where he's at and he's real. When you do that, I said,
I'll bring some equipment down. We'll go Honting. I'm trying really hard
not to because I love your mussan your impression there. Oh, Jim,
he's a great guy. I just we've been friends for years. They're just
they're just good. He's doing some just amazing work down there. Next,
I wanted to ask you about they came while you're sleeping. I wanted to
talk to you about that's kind of your slogan. You have that on your
website, lots of your talks and what you mean by that, And I
think that's well, it's a metaphorical statement that first of all, that most
people or a lot of people simply don't understand, don't even know what's going
on. They're literally asleep to the phenomena. I think when they wake up,
they're going to be shocked a mace. And those who are when I
talk to them, they're sitting there just wide eyed, like a calf looking
at a new gate. I mean, they just like stunned, what is
that thing there. The second thing is that it has another meaning to the
abductee. They came while you slept, and it has another meaning to other
people in the UFO field. The fact is they're still coming while we're while
we're sleeping. My issue is that we need to be awake in every sense
of that word. And if we do that, I think that we have
a good chance of catching at least one of them. The public in general
being asleep with the whole issue. So I think they're asleep at the wheel.
This is a bus that everybody's a passenger on, nobody knows where it's
going. So I told doctor Leo Spinkle Sprinkles group when I spoke in the
University of Wyoming several years ago, this is a great group of people.
And I said, you know, this is this is really a kind of
a it's kind of a tough thing for me. I said, because you
know, you guys have a different view about this thing. And he had
just spoken and he was a really they just love him, you know,
he speaks up there all the time. And I just simply told these people,
I said, I'm kind of a nuts and bold sky. I flew
up here on an airplane, was sitting over the wing, looked out and
I checked every little nut both on that wing. I kind of like to
know that they're all in there. That might not matter some of you folks,
but it sure does to me. And they all kind of laughed.
Then afterward, I did my presentation and Leo Sprinkle walked up to me.
He's a real tall guy, about six four sixty five real tall, still
plays basketball there, amazing guy, and he gives me the biggest He stands
there with the paper in his hand. I wonder what in the world he's
in his hand. And he looked at me, and he's got this paper
in his hand, opens his arms and he said, Darryl, I'm so
sorry. I said, well about what he said. I didn't know.
He gives me the biggest hug and hands me this paper. He said,
I really didn't know you. So I had this friend of mine who was
pretty good at looking at a photograph and tell you all about somebody. He
said. She wrote this whole thing about you. He says factually quite flattering,
he said, but I think she's right on target. I just wanted
to give it to you, and so he did. We had several remarkable
things happened that conference that were just pretty interesting. But Leo and I have
differing views about the alien phenomena. To him, it's kind of like school,
you know, first day at school or that sort of thing, and
that's what we're in. And I assured him that after looking at showing,
I said, that's Leo. I can show you, you know, I
can show you dead bodies and people rip apart and all kinds of things that
don't suggest that's first day at school. If that's true, you're going to
the Alien Columbine School or something, because that's not exactly the school I went
to. And I said, in my events, I said, you know,
I remember what happened, and I'm telling you it's not what you think
it is. There's something else going on. And I said, I don't
say that they're not positive events. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying
that you may be missing. I said, you're saying that this is basically
we're in a learning curve here and we just don't get it. I said
doctor Mackfield same West spoke to him in Istanbul about that, and we disagreed
about about that, and I gave them both my viewpoints, and both of
them just sat there and they didn't have answers for some of the questions I
gave. I said, the simple point is that the answer they're here to
save the planet, fixed Theozone hole and a few of these other things just
isn't consistent with what they do. It's consistent with the philosophy that people want
them to be like that. I think we all would like that. But
the reality is, when somebody surgically removes your eyes, they're not here to
save your planet. They're here to get your eyes. You better be wondering
about why they need that, Why are they doing that, and why doesn't
it make any difference that they would repair somebody, they would leave them in
that condition in a jungle, And I mean, that just is unconstable.
If a human being did that, you'd have been prosecuted and put in jail
for fifty years. Alien does it and it's like it's all okay, all
you have to do is shave your head, be bald headed and have large
black eyes and everything's moral. There's something wrong with that kind of thinking in
my view. Leo Sprinkle I love to death also, and I think that
really getting into the field of abduction, You and Leo are a great place
to start because you have differing opinions, but you have great points. Him
being more on a philosophical maybe spiritual and you, like you said, being
a nuts and Bold skuy And that's a good segue to what I was going
to get to next, being a nuts and Bolds guy. It seems as
though you know and everything I've seen with hypnotherapists, not many touch on a
big point of yours, which is the memory versus hallucinations. And it seems
like a lot of hypnotherapists possibly could use a little uptraining on identifying those differences.
And I was wondering if you could explain those differences and how you Well.
I was on art Bell years ago and I came on Martin Bell program.
It had been third or fourth time I was on there, and I
told Artis said, well, I want to address the hypnosis part tonight.
And I said, and it's going to sound like I'm against him gnosis when
I do this. And I said, You've got to understand. I'm a
master hypnotherapist. That means I train and certify people in hypnotherapy. I'm a
hypnotic anesthesia therapist that means I take people to surgery and work the hypnotic anesthesia
with them. And I said, I've many I've a certified medical hypnotherapists.
I've got all kinds of certifications in this field for many years. I said,
So I feel somewhat qualified to be able to talk about this to some
degree. And the fact is I said, a lot of you people out
there in the psychological field don't have a clue that you don't know the difference
between memory and recall. You just don't, I said. That's why,
I said, it's amazing to me some of you psychologists are psychiatrists pick on
these little hypnotists as if they're doing evil when they're taking the basic, same
little course you took. What makes you think you're so hot because you've got
a PhD and they don't. I said, you're missing the whole point.
And the way I can best accentuate that is that you people with the PhDs
are getting sued in the multi million dollar suits for not knowing the difference between
memory and recall. Somebody comes along and you work with them, and you
figure out that they've had sexual abuse by their family, and then you go
take all this to court, take their family to court, get their kids
to believe this stuff. Only to find out their family, who supposedly sexually
abuse these people when they were children, maybe not worry even in the country
when it happened, they were in France or something. You end up with
egg on your face, getting sued for multimillions of dollars for destroying families believing
in this stuff because you don't know the difference between how memory is actually encoded
and how it's decoded. If you knew that, you know how the alien
does what he does. That's what it's about. How would you define the
difference and how do you weed out the difference memory? To put this in
a context that I think most people can kind of appreciate it in a practical
way is And I did this with CNN the other night when they were at
my home for two days, and they said, well, could you have
been leading these people when you were doing hypnosis with them here in this session?
And I said, well, first of all, I said, I
did a number of things. One thing I did was ask them about the
weather, And I'll ask you the same question. You give me an answer
if you can, what was the weather like from May thirteenth, nineteen seventy
six. You don't have a clue, nobody does. But an abductee can
tell you exactly what happened on the night he was abducted. They know exactly.
Well, you can take that information back through the Weather Service and check
it and see if they're accurate or not. In most cases they are,
they're very accurate. And when you realize that, then you realize that you're
at least hitting on memory. From that point of view. The second thing
is if a person's in hallucination, for like in the stage hypnosis, anything
you suggest to them, in most cases they'll accept it and they'll do it.
You're going to act like Elvis Presley, and they will. They're gonna
make fool of themselves. That's what they signed up for. That they want
to do. It's fun. That's called hallucination. But when you get a
person on the other sense of the word, you get a person two in
memory, and I did in front of CNN, and I kept telling the
abductee. I said, they said, I'm in this room, and I
said, okay, how many corners are in the room. Well, anybody
knows anything about abductions knows those rooms are not They're around, they're not square
at all. And I've already given the suggestion the room is square. If
they're hallucinating, they're going to tell me two, three, or four,
five corners whatever. They're going to tell me the corners in that room.
And you will consistently get answers from reductees. They'll sit there stunned. They'll
usually move their head looking around because they're in the room at the time,
and they're flat telling you that there is none and I'll tell them, yes,
there are. You get in there and count those rooms, and they'll
get mad and then we'll get in a big argument. Under hypnosis, these
people are in memory. That's why they're angry. You ask them, what
does alien's feet look like? And I haven't met that one person that actually
knew the answered that question, which is curious, and most of them will
tell you I can't see their feet, and that's why it's that just because
I'm lying on the table. Well, for hallucinating, you can see the
feet or anything else you want to you just can make and just sit there
and imagine it. But they don't do that. So that's These are just
just a couple of indicators. Let you know that these people may in fact
not be lying at all or hallucinating. And I'll give you another even better
example, and this is going to kind of cut into some hypnotists in the
UFO field. An individual academy, he's an engineers. In fact, he's
a member of organization. He's a nice guy, been a friend for years.
He said, Well, darl he said, you know what I think
you need to do is put these people behind a curtain, you know,
mentally, so they can kind of look at their reductions not be afraid of
it. I said, that sounds great. You know where'd you dream that
up? They said, Well, that's why a lot of these hitting with
the stew he said, I've read about them. I said, you feel
like that's appropriate. Well, of course it is. You're you're you're softening
the blow, you're making this, you're doing that, and you're doing so
on. I said, So if I take the abductee out of the event
and put him over behind a curtain and let him look at it and kind
of dissociate him, then he'll be a lot better. He said yeah.
I said, okay. I said, that's a good idea. John.
Let's talk about that for a minute. I said, let me ask you
a question. I said, we're in this restaurant here, Why don't you
I said, don't you look out the window here and imagine yourself standing out
there in park lot? And you do that? He said, Jessica can
I said, pretty es do? I said, now, I'd like for
you to imagine yourself and your body out there looking back at us. Can
you do that? And he sug yes. I said, John, that's
called hallucination. You're not outside, you never were. How is it you
think you can see us inside here from out there when you're sitting here?
You see you've allowed yourself to hallucinate already in our discussion, and you even
believe it, and you haven't been hypnotized at all. Yeah, I've been
familiar with that technique and i've you know, like everyone else. Oh,
what a great technique I've changed. It is a good technique. If the
technique is used to destroy memory, that's what it's used for. As a
therapist. A therapist will use that technique to destroy, not enhance memory,
but destroy it. When I read somebody of a phobia in twelve minutes of
a snake phobia, as I showed you tonight in this presentation, this lady
had snake Phobia's an abductee. The psychologist said it'd take two years of work
with this woman to get rid of it. It was that severe. Well,
I'll show you a picture. We're whole a ball python in twelve minutes.
How is that? I use that technique to destroy her memory of that
serpent. Now, if people are using techniques like the dissociation is a technique
used to not only it's not only desensitizes memory, it actually can't affect it
and even destroy it. Now that woman has no fear of a snake at
all, except a healthy fear to stay away from them. But it's normal.
But her fear before it was so severe that if she actually saw a
worm she thought might have been a snake crawled under her door steal left her
kid out in the car for quite a while until I got drove across Houston
to get the kid out of the car because she wouldn't come back out of
the house to even save her kid. Now that's talking, we're talking severe.
I use some pretty powerful techniques to destroy her fear and memory of that
of those snakes. In that way, that technique is used to destroy or
to aberate, at least aberate memory. Why would you be using a technique
like that and call it enhancement, which makes perfect sense? Which great about
knowledge is making you rethink the things you thought. Well, these techniques are
good, They're very good. There are many techniques used to help people.
They're called the sociate of techniques. They're wonderful techniques. We use them for
therapy when I work for psychologists or psychiatrists who they allows me to work with
their patient. But one in particular, two psychiatrists from Tri County. It's
a mental health mental retardation outfit, Williams in Williamson in Montgomery County, Texas.
They sent a guy to me to work that had had severe problems with
anxiety for fourteen years, been on medication fourteen years, and it's just it
just broke his life. And he came in. First of all, he's
crying and he said, you know, please help me, Please help me.
And I said, I can't do that because you know, I'm not
I'm not a licensed psychologist, psychiatrist saint that I'm just hyping the therapist,
blah blah blah, And I can't do that, and I wouldn't because I
will not go around your prescribed program that you're under the medical care of these
people. So that's I'm not able to do that. And that's the only
way I could do that. You'd have to bring me back a letter saying
that they agree for me to do this. And of course I knew they'd
never give a letter because it's it's a slap in face, says you can't
take care of your patients. To my shock and amaze me, he came
back the next day with a letter from both both the therapists saying you're welcome
to work with him. Please use your hypnosis and ope or other techniques to
help him out. So I said, well, come on in. What
was I going to say? So I said, I have a seat,
and he said, okay. I also know that he's an abductee and he's
hurting. That's part of his anxiety. I know that I know the guy.
I'm known him for years and so long story short is, I said,
I'm going to show you something. A technique that I've learned. Cost
me five thousand dollars to learn it. It's so new you're psychologists and psychiatrists
are not going to have a clue because they're not going to pay five thousand
dollars to go learn new technology. They're not going to do it. Ten
years, it'll filter down and they'll get it and then they'll probably rename it
and claim it was theirs. That's the fact is, we've been using it
for years. I said, I tried to keep myself up on some of
the latest things out. I said, what I'm going to do with you
today is called timeline therapy, I said, in which we have it's well,
how many sessions you think this will take? That's what you mean?
He said, well, does this take a year or twur I said no,
you don't understand. You have one hour then, but then we'll come
in fourteen years. I don't care about their failures, and my work has
never been based on how well other people fail. I could care less,
I said, I want you to sit down and follow my instructions. If
you're stupid, it's going to take an hour. If you're smart, we'll
be done in twenty minutes. If you just want to practice, we'll be
done in thirty. Are you ready, yes, sir, have a seat.
In fifteen minutes, we were done. He broke down and cried.
He said, I can't believe I can get rid of my own anxiety all
by myself. He cried like a baby. The point is that these techniques
are powerful, but the altra memory sometimes destroy it, sometimes just alter it.
I don't want somebody retrieving memory for me using techniques that alter my memory.
Because I'm not in my body at the time. I'm not there.
I'm not in the event. I'm watching the event. If you're watching the
event, you're not in the event. Are you by definition nature that you
are in fact associated? So you have a lot of clients thousands, I
believe you referred a thousand abductees worldwide that we've worked with and have records on
and so on various different things, and also have I work with people.
I've worked in a hypnotherapy clinic for about THU guess close to five years,
so I've worked with just about everybody for everything from amputees, screaming on morphine
to you name it. I mean, every kind of problem you can even
probably imagine came through that office that I've worked with. So I have a
good, a good working knowledge about working with these people on various levels.
With your experience with abductees, what's your overall feeling of the nature of the
abduction phenomena? I know that's hard to well. I think was maybe a
more simplistic way, but I think it would be a kind of a clear
way to explain the abduction phenomena is think of yourself a contact first of all,
the abduction phenomenon. The abduction means just exactly what it says. You're
taken without your will. That's abduction, that is kidnapping. It's what it
is. That's all there is to it. Now. In the abduction experience,
you generally will come out with one of two views. The first view
is that I was taken against my will. I didn't like it, it
was wrong and mora old whatever. These people are often referred to as abductees.
You have another group of people which feel like they were taken, probably
against their will, but it doesn't matter. It's probably for my best good.
They know better than me, and they kind of abrogate their freedom,
their free choice to somebody who abducts them, and they say things like,
well, they probably know better than us, and they're just helping us.
They're here to save the planet, fixios on hole or help me do some
great thing. I'm just in grade one of their program, and that's okay.
People can believe anything you want to. It's not a problem when I
look at that situation. I look at it, and I can give you
a glaring example of this. To Charlie Hickson Calvin Parker case, these two
and I know this case, and I've interviewed both of them. I know
it very well. These two were off duty, they say the original stories
they were off duty cops. They weren't off due, they were on duty.
They were out there making a drug bus, that's what it was,
UFO Lands. They end up getting taken. One of them, Calvin Parker,
comes off that craft with a cut across his stomach. His blood is
his jeans are soaked down to the knees with blood. He comes off the
craft. An abductee. Charlie Hickson comes off the craft with his glowing looking
little face saying, you know, basically, you know whoa. Here are
two people, two cops, in the same event, and they come off
two different people in the event. That's pretty amazing to me. You can
characterize this this way. Think of it as two lab rats, one little
lab rat like Charlie Hickson, you know. The genetic engineer says, okay,
roll over, and the little lab rat rolls over. Stand up.
The little labrat, stand up. That's so cute. Me takes the needle,
goes and sticks him anyway and says, that's okay. You won't remember,
although you do feel the pain and impact as you do. Remember,
I don't care what they say, and so you get the same shot anyway.
Then all of a sudden, you put this little guy down. Oh
that's good, we're gonna get him again. And you go back to a
little labratt over and you reach over this lab rat and then bite you.
That one's the darre old lab rat. He'll bite the fire out of you.
He will not cooperate. And you pick him up by the tail and
you sling him around and he keeps trying to bite it and he won't cooperate,
and you say you will remember, and you give him a shot anyway.
Hey like that little guy, and then throw him across the But step
fact is it does make any difference what viewpoints you take. You're still a
labrath. It really doesn't make any difference what you want to think about it.
It's more comfortable to think that it was, you know, a higher
view and higher calling that it was. But I seriously doubt that you being
on the slab, me being on another slab makes any real difference in your
reference area. Your example, you kind of hit on some ideas of morality
at least that that, Oh, don't worry you're not going to remember this
anyway, which I always thought was weird, even with Betty Hill, where
she's like, yeah, I'm going to remember this. No you're not.
Yes I am. No, you're not. Yes, I amn't sure enough
she remembered. But it indicates some sort of morality. Do you see any
sort of imral? The alien lies, they prevaricate, they lie, they
used subterfuge. There is absolutely no question about Literature's wife with it. Excuse
me. It does make any difference what anybody says. It's crystal clear.
I've seen them give eight different stories to eight different abductees on the same craft,
same time. About the eight different screen memories of what really happened,
Well, I used to be a police officer. If there are eight people
in the middle of a crime and I asked you all the same question,
where were you or what were you doing? And you're all in the same
room, and you give me eight different stories, at least seven of you
are going to jail. That's call lying to a police officer. It didn't
happen eight different The guide murdered eight different ways. It happened one way,
and seven of you are lying, and maybe eight but you're going to get
all of them, are going downtown, every one of them until you find
out exactly what's going on. Well, the alien does, it's all time,
and people do seem to just almost ignore it. Well, they said
they were from planet band Lawn. Is that a deodorant or something? I
mean, that doesn't make any sense. I'm data reticulate. Well that's where
you are this week. Where are you are next week? Well, we're
on the other side of the moon. Okay, we're from Mars. Now
we're from men or Earth. Now we're from another dimension. Well, why
don't you make up your mind? Why don't you give us an address?
Now these people come out and say, oh, I'm channeling these aliens.
They're giving me this great information. Hey, anybody out there channeling aliens,
you got the big secrets? You got you know what, the big one.
I would be more than happy for you to answer my famous ten questions.
Let me give you a hint. Don't try it. So I'm telling
you what if you're really plugged into the alien. First of all, the
real alien won't give you the answers anyway. And if you do get ten
answers, and they're going to be wrong if I can tell you, because
you're not going to know the answers to them. I know that coming from
your own subconscious and you're just accessing your own brain coming up with your own
answers. And you're not gonna have right answers because you don't know the next
three elements. They're going to show up on a periodic chart. You don't
know what the alien does, but you don't know that, so you got
to come up with the goods if you claim this, so you see the
whole thing as malicious. I see the whole thing as subterfuge. I see
this business as for what it is. I used to be in the intelligence
business. Whenever I went into the Central Intelligence Stacy for two years during the
covert in covert opice during the Vietnam War, I was stunned to see the
training I got was identical to what was going on with the alien. Now,
in the intelligence business, we lied for two reasons. One is because
it would expose what we were doing. So you can't tell the truth about
that. What are you all doing today, Oh we're gonna do just do
the takeover, nick Rogwa or something. You used to go out and tell
everybody that you can't do it. The nature of your business a dictate.
You can't same thing with the alien. They're not going to tell you what
the truth is, what they're up to. Why do you think they haven't
done that in thirty fifty one hundred one thousand years because they're not going to
tell you. Well, that makes an intelligence sin and what we need to
do at that points counterintelligence. Second reason we lied in the Central Intelligence Agency
and they're doing any intelligence agency. I don't care if it's a MOSAD,
I don't care what it is KGB, it doesn't matter. The answer is
that when we lied simply because we couldn't tell you because it would compromise what
we were doing. And second, we lied simply because you cannot give out
this kind of information and allow it to be you either use against you.
And when we would also give it also false information or misinformation or disinformation.
This is part of the nature. When when I found the alien was doing
the same thing, well duh does it take a genius to figure out that
this is an intelligence operation that's going on? I mean, aliens from another
planet are here to save our planet, but they won't tell us anything.
They'll they'll pull your eyeballs out of your head, and do this, and
do that, kill a couple of kids, occasionally a bunch of cattle,
won't tell you a thing, and they're going to save your planet. Why
do I not believe that they tortured and mutilated and did horrible things to the
Amazonian based Indians for over ten years. One of US's most well documented cases.
Jaques Vallet says, Bob Pratt's book and his work is the finest field
work he's ever seen. That's the way field work is supposed to be done.
Unbelievable, horrific stories done are for years against the Amazonian tribal Indians.
They're helping the universe by torturing Indians. That sounds like something on in the
United States a long time ago. Why do I not believe that story?
And you have a case where a couple of children were actually died, They
actually died of results of their reductions, right in Dellas, Texas. So
to me, this sort of thing doesn't It doesn't lend itself to a morality,
we understand, but it does it lends itself to something to me at
this amoral at best. And I suspect that the people that are entities that
are doing this, the Grays and the other guys and so on. The
Nordics, who did You've got one Nordic that treated Dale Musterr so good and
so kind in the mass subduction. It was just moving to listen to the
story. It really was. That same Nordic overheard another one of my abductees
laughing about the implant he hid for twenty two years that they couldn't find,
and the Nordic looked over and hurt him thinking. A few days later,
Nordick showed up and tortured that man until he thought he gave him the information
on where that implant was. I was involved in that case the day had
happened. I know what I'm talking about. Same Nordic didn't make a bit
of difference. They don't care whether they torture you or make you love.
It doesn't make a bit of difference. They're there to do their job.
They don't care whether it means cutting your eyeballs out or cutting the utter off
of a cow, live or dead. It doesn't make a bit of difference
them because they have no morals. They just do what they do. The
real issue if there's a moral issue. You have a moral issue with alien
You're going to have to deal with mid level management because that's where the orders
are coming from. These guys are just doing their Wow. I was trying
to lead you to that very thing, the mid level management, and I
thought I had failed, but luckily had the last you went there, and
I guess just that theory of you know, and you heard a lot of
the the worker bees and then the mid the higher ups who actually are directing
thing. Higher ups usually don't come and get involved. If I don't know,
if every seat shows this where unless something goes very wrong, they don't
get involved. It's usually well. In my upcoming book, it covers a
chapter I'm finishing up right now. It's called Hierarchy, and it takes a
vastly different view than the UFO field does about the aliens. Basically, there
is a thing I call the usual suspects, which I have a lineup of
these entities very different. Introduce a small grade, the large, larger grade
nord aches and the Mansa's being and all these other things, and that's the
lineup. And most people in the UFO you'll feel like that those are in
fact the major players and they're calling the shots and doing all that. Well,
they're not. They're they're on the lowest rung of the food chain.
And even inside their group, it go It din't a grade, so I
mean, it just goes down the toilet, so to speak. Little grazers
there, you have to think of them as a two eighty six computer with
legs, because they just don't have clue. If you do things in your
induction, they're outside the purview of what they're trained or or that data input
is for in their brain. If they have one, what you're what you're
going to find is that they can't deal with it. They don't know what
to do, and it really confuses them. They'll they'll they'll break up the
abduction. You want to break up an abduction. You want to stop an
abduction. Do things that are not consistent with that with his abilities, and
they freak out, they don't know what to do. They'll go back and
usually they'll come back with help. The next time they show up. Their
little gray doctor boss will show up with him and he knows what to do.
He's pretty sharp. He'll and if he can't fix your problem, if
there is a problem, then they'll send what they call is a mid His
job is to make sure that your pro hit, whatever the problem is in
the business, is solved, and they're very effective about what they do.
If they send two MIBs, you're in trouble. So a mid men in
black is that what you're getting in? It's something in black for sure.
If they dress in nineteen fifty seven fifties clothes American style, even if they're
seen in Slovakia, it doesn't matter. It's stunned the Slovakians when they solve
them. Why do they dress in these old like detective type clothes with a
strange little hat and everything like it's on American TV in the fifties. It's
just because what they do. I said, they have a real clothing problem.
They just haven't been able to update their clothing in quite a while.
You have to excuse them for that. But why don't they dress Slovakian if
they're trying to, you know, do this stuff to us. It's just
a good point. But I just I don't think they care. But I
don't think they think you can do a thing about it anyway, And it
doesn't make it difference when you get it or hear it or remember it or
not. MIV does not give a hoot one way or the other, whether
you remember or not. Now the alien does, But the MIV doesn't care
anything. He's just going to straighten out your He's going to clean your clock,
straighten out your problems. I've heard of I read about experiences where someone
has witnessed a couple of MIBs around an old, you know style sixties you
know, star skinning hutch kind of car grade out or whatever, and then
the car disappears. They turn around and it's gone. Have you had any
experiences or had anybody come to you with situations. We had one case in
Houston, Texas where a lady, very credible lady, was approached by a
female alien with a blonde hair bouffont style and it's alien, what pure white
faced alien type on if you imagine alien with a fake wig on, because
that's exactly what it was, driving a Ford, a little Ford escort,
and it would follow this woman every day to work for six weeks at five
days a week. And then she just said, I never saw it,
never saw it on weekends, said it always showed up right next to me
or behind me. Or right in front of me. She said that was
the weirdest thing I ever saw. It said, I'd leave to go to
work, and I'd come back, get on the freeway, come back home,
and there'd be again. Went on for six weeks. I stayed this
case very carefully. My senior investigator said this, He said, Darryl,
and he's an abductee. He said, she's making it up, she's hallucinating,
she doesn't know what she's talking about. He said, I don't believe
a word of this thing. And I said, Dale, she's telling the
truth and that's all there is to it. He said, well, I
think you're wrong. I said, okay. So anyway, this lady,
in her last one of her experiences, I actually had to read the license
plate off to me and I ran the plates on it, and the plates
were stolen out of Dallas, and the car actually disappeared one time. What
was interesting is that her parents came down, who do not know anything about
her abductions for thirty years. They're helping her fix her house because she's going
to sell it for long and her daddy was going to help her put up
a couple of boards and nice little things for old fellow to do. And
the long and the short of that was simply that this lady, the alien
creature or whatever it is with the buffont hair style, shows up and starts
moving toward the driving toward her. They're at the home depot out in the
middle. They're loading up their little amount of wood and so on, and
this strange looking woman in this Redford escort comes driving by slow motion, real
slow and just looks at them. And she said, I was so mortified,
because I mean, how how are you gonna explain that to your parents?
And she said her mother looked at her and said, oh, my
god, did you see that woman. She's the whitest skin I've ever seen
on human beings, skinny and frail, like she's gonna die. She said,
I didn't know. I said, I've told him I didn't see anything,
and I just had to like it. I didn't want to talk about
it. She said, my parents saw it. Well. Interestingly enough,
Dale, who did not believe a word of this, His wife a few
nights later asked him to go get some milk at the store. So he
goes, gets milk and bread, walks out of the store and sees his
black fellow and hanging halfway out of his car. He thinks, well,
as that is the guy dead, is he hurt? Is he injured?
He's he had heart attack? What's going on? Dale kind of walks toward
the guy, and all of a sudden, the guy wakes up and goes
look at and he realizes something's wrong, jumps the car and you know,
shuts the door. He gets these cars starts to race off and just he
starts to back up and everything. The notices somebody in the back seat with
a yellow buffont hair, pure white face, and he's, oh my god.
The reason he's really freaked out about this is because this is the this
is the this is the same car. He recognizes it from being there the
night and in the interview. Well, he jumps in his pickup, takes
off after it, and they getting a big road race right down the street.
And uh, finally, the car races right through a red light that's
already started to change, and so cars are starting to come and Dale slams
on his brakes and just slides almost into the intersection, missing cars, and
the car goes on through. It gets through, and also this little head
sticks up in the back seat where the black guy's driving the car with that
little bouffont hair and just looks back at Dale. He said, my god,
he said, a woman's telling the truth all along. I said,
I told you I know when they're hallucinating and when they're not. Dale he
said, Darling, I'm so sorry, said I should have believed it.
I said, it didn't matter if you believe me or not. My work's
not based upon anybody's belief I don't care about beliefs, care about what actually
is. Would you describe this lady and these other end might be as a
mid level management? No, what would What are the characteristics that you would
say of mid levels? I've never really discussed that with anybody. The reason
is because some of it will be discussed in the in the book. But
the fact is that mid level management is the one that makes decisions. They
they I'll give you an example in the mass subduction December eighth, nineteen ninety
two. The double mass subduction on December eighth and December eleventh, eleventh set
eight people taking at the same time, same place, same event, or
an astounding set of events occurred. They were taken to a from regular little
craft. They were taken out to a huge craft reportedly fifty miles sticking six
hundred miles across, which I did not believe the stat story myself, that
part of it, until Dale showed me a film of it filmed by a
Japanese astronomer of that apparently that possibly that craft, because at the same time
that the abduction events were going on, they got the film and brought it
over to me and showed me, and I just was stunned listening to him
and looking at the film. H I had given a post it not a
suggestion to the woman, the woman that actually was involved in this car incident
I just mentioned. And what I was trying to do is get the alien
to respond to us, see if I could trap them in a response.
And because I found a piece of information and an abductee that I felt was
harmful to them, if they were acting like an intelligence group, I think
we struck paid We struck pay dirt because the fact they did respond, they
responded to post it notice suggestion I gave her with that information, and I
installed it not as her memory but as someone else's. But how would you
get the information if it's not your memory? And they know that you don't
know the information because they and he wasn't supposed to know it either, But
how did you get it when you weren't there? So I knew they were
going to be real befuddled about this old thing. If it came off right,
Well, she gets up and burns out the information. They end up
abducting eight of her people, include my senior investigator, because if you want
to know what I'm doing, you would pick him up obviously, if you're
not going to get me well on the problem is Dale didn't have clue because
I never told him. He's an Abducteeve. Why would I be telling him
things I was doing against the alien? I mean, that's like ringing the
dinner bell for them, you know. So I didn't tell him. And
there were two beings that showed up on that craft, and all the little
aliens that night were very afraid, all of them, all the entities,
Nordics, all of them were terrified. Somebody big was on board the craft
and there weren't going to be any mistakes this time, whatever that means.
And Dale and this woman both were called in by what I referred to as
mid level management and guy sitting in his chair her room and in his room,
and all these entities are lined up on one side and Dale and this
guy asks a question. When he asks a question, he doesn't ask it
twice. They don't understand anything other than blind obedience and fear. And whenever
Dale Dale, they were asked, he asked the question. He said,
why is why is he doing this? Speaking of me? Dale looked around,
What what are you talking about? I mean, this guy he got
ballistic when he asked a question. You, I mean, you're you can
imagine somebody being in an ultimate power, so to speak over over slaves.
And that's about the way it was. It was looked, it looked like
and he demanded to know the answer. And finally, after the second question,
Dale didn't know the answers to it, and this guy went ballistic again.
All of a sudden, the Nordic walks over realizes he needs to diffuse
the situation. He goes over and grabs Dale's face with his hands side side
on his face, puts his forehead next to Dale's forehead, looks into Dale's
eyes and looks back at the guy sitting in a big chair and says he
doesn't know. Then the guy got calm because he realized Dale didn't know at
that point, but he wasn't going to accept Dale's answer for that. In
the other room, they were asking this lady the same questions another guy was
and the last two questions asked were rather interesting. Each one asked two separate
questions. They produced a holographic image of her brain and asked Dale to point
at the human soul, and Dale said, well, no one's ever been
able to find the soul specifically, and that the guy went ballistic again.
The screen datings pointed to where the human soul is. He didn't know.
He doesn't have a clue. In the other room, they were asking her
the same question, but it wasn't a computer generated brain in a hologram form.
It was on a screen in her case, and she said they wanted
to know where he the spirit was. I told him I had no idea,
and they didn't like that answer at all. So, like I said,
middle level management doesn't know all, see, all do all, so
to speak, but they do give they call the shots, and whenever they
do, you can see if he gets that upset over little things like that.
And these little guys are all afraid of this guy. You can just
imagine what kind of orders they're given, and it brings it brings up all
kinds of imagery that is not positive. And I spoke to a group of
scientists in Tampa, Florida, and these people are well to do. One
guy staying there at his home was worth I know, personally, fifty two
million dollars. I know that he's worth a lot more than that, but
that's what I did know that he was worth. Most of the people in
that room are worth fortune. And I was working with a lady in the
the room, some therapist, and she said she has some issue she wanted
me to work on, and so I did. When I finished, walked
out and she walked out, and they said, could you speak to us
please? And I said, I don't really think you people would want me
to give you my viewpoint. I said, you're pretty much of a pretty
much of a new age view that you know, you kind of feel like
these entities are kind of misunderstood and we don't get it and this is like
first day of school and you know, and all this sort of thing.
And I said, I really can't contribute to that kind of thinking, so
I'd just be better. You know, you just felt the way you felt
and thought the way you thought. And I'll just sit here and you know,
drink my doctor pepper and need a cookie or something. You know.
They said, no, we really want to know what you think. Now
you really don't. He said, yes, we do. He said,
you're not going to offend anybody here, real smart bunch of people, nice
people. And I said, I gave them several metaphors that they were just
I mean, they were just what you could hurt a pin drop in that
room on the car. And the last thing I told them. They said,
we'd like to know what happened to you in your last event. And
I said, I've never told anybody that. He said, would you tell
us? And I said, no, I won't. I said, I
will give you a metaphor, because metaphors are full of meaning and they can
give you a lot more information than even facts. Which would you do that,
I said, I'd be glad to. I said, imagine, if
you will, a beautiful set of green hills, beautiful beautiful range, enter's
cows all over the range. I mean, it's just it's cow's paradise,
more grass than you can eat. I mean, it's just incredible and out
among the cows as Cow two thirteen and Caw two thirteen just got there,
and he doesn't have clue. And all of a sudden, one day,
while they're out there talking and doing their little cow things, here comes this
little short guy with large bug eyes with his little milk bucket, walking toward
a cow. And Cow Too thirteen looks still the cow and says, who's
that? And he said, well, that's the milkman. H huh,
ones he do he milks cows. H where's he work at the milk factory?
Uh? Okay, cow gets milked, He little man goes away.
This happens from time to time. One day it's Cow Too thirteen's turn.
Here comes the milkman. He's got his little bucket. He starts walking towards
Kow two thirteen. Kow two thirteen says, hey, hey, hey,
what do you think you're doing. I'm the milkman. You have to let
me milk you. I don't think so, oh you have to. You're
a cow. I'm the milkman. Uh huh, it ain't gonna happen,
buddy. And so a little milkman's all confused and upset. He goes back
to milk factory. When he gets the milk factory, he tells the committee
that he wasn't able to milk cow to thirteen. And I said, well,
go tell him you love him. It works on all the other cows.
So here comes the milkman. Cow two thirteen says, hey, what
do you think you're doing? I love you. You are wonderful, you
are special and chosen. You are one of us. Uh huh. Beat
it didn't work. Little man goes back to the milk factor says, hey,
cow two thirteen won't cooperate. They said, then scare him. It
works on the rest of them. You get the milk. He goes back,
and a cow two thirteen kicks little milk man back down the hill.
Little milkman goes back all scuffed up, dirt all over Himan, his little
milk bucket full of dirt, and look what he did to me. And
they said, well, that's that's a mess. I said, So it
got worse, and the engineer looked at me and who was leading the group,
and said, what happened? I said, they sent the butcher.
I think you can imagine the rest this, So don't tell me about aliens
here to save my planet. I said, you weren't there, and you
don't know. You're sitting here surmizing a bunch of stuff that you don't have
clue about, not even close, it feels. I guess the whole subject
is strange because that story it really makes me smile most of the time,
and then I feel kind of self conscious about it because it's a traumatic thing.
But of course, you know, you're able to get across your point
in this metaphor. I think in a you know, very entertaining way.
Like I called it earlier. I think you're here, your Texan charms,
you know, shine through. But like you said, you know, that
metaphor says a lot. And to find out more about mid level management,
you have to wait for the upcoming book, huh. I guess so yep,
Well, well, of course you maybe we can in a range of
meeting and maybe you can have your own Butcher, well, that is okay.
A lot of people don't don't know. They don't recognize what is up
in the next level. It is not a higher level of what's down beneath.
The guys down beneath are bad enough inasmuch as they like I said,
the Nordic will torture you one minute, or treat you so good that you'll
just nearly cry. It really doesn't matter. It's what is effective, it's
what works on you. It's called intelligence. We did that all the time.
If you're a true, honest to goodness field. They're actually called kasaws
earn any real. A CIA agent is not a person who works in the
CIA. It's a person who works for the CIA. In other words,
you've been hired by them. You're not part of them, but you work
for them. That would make you a CIA agent. A CIA agent is
not one of the spies, so to speak. He's called a case officer.
I don't know. White people don't understand this. They think you know
all about c They don't have a clue. A case officer is the guy
who would hire you to become a CIA h You now become an agent of
the CIA. You're not in the CIA, but you're an agent of it.
So this sort of thing is it gives you a little sense of how
the intelligence community works. And the fact is that the way the way it
works for you to be a case officer to gather intelligence in another And they
asked me if I would be interested in come and stay in the in the
company, and I told them I would not. I said, I can't
do that to other people. Basically, what being a field case officer is
is getting in most cases, if you're going to do seven stuff, it's
basically getting people to betray their country. And I can give you all kinds
of illustrations of how that works and how it does work. My point is
that's the purpose. I don't think there's a whole lot of difference to Dailien.
I've had people literally tell me that they knew certain things about alien.
They were horrified what they found out accidentally, and they would not They begged
me not to even force them to tell them because they felt they'd be betraying
the alien. I said, but they're not us, I know, but
I feel I have to protect them to I said, but if a human
race is at risk, if they were, I'm not saying they are,
but if they were, and it doesn't matter to you. No, it
sounded like somebody's brainwashed a little bit here. Hey, we're your species,
you know, get your head screwed on. If there's information out there we
need to know, we kind of need to know that. You know,
you don't need to be hiding that from the rest of us. And that's
just as criminals as it gets. You know, you're you're talking about dealing
against humanity here. You know, we're not supposed to know anything, so
you can allow them to continue to do what they do, and you know
that's not They're not up to any good. I mean, this is just
absolutely insane to me. But that's what a case officer does. He gets
people to betray. And I've seen this, not with all abductees, but
several abductees who actually found out information they felt was really dangerous that for the
alien if it got out about them, and they flat told me face.
One of is Corpus Christie, Texas. She cried, she's please, don't
make me tell you what I know. I see. Even if it would
help us and might even help save us in somewhere or do something like that,
she doesn't matter. I don't want to betray them, man, that's
just weird stuff. This all gets kind of into motive, at least with
the intelligence and the subterfuge, So getting further into motive if you were to
speculate, and maybe you don't even want to speculate or but do you have
any speculations towards then what the motive is behind this subterfuge. And we could
obviously sit here for hours and go through all kinds of possibilities there. But
the fact is that when they finished with an abductee, and they especially if
they come into the contact him until the basically a lot of contactees have a
very interesting view about the alien and how they're here to save us and fix
the planet or whatever. Both of these it seems to me that realistically,
both of you, the abductee and the contact e, may be just viewpoints
provided by the alien just to keep you arguing with them on a lateral level,
arguing with each other. Well, if you've missed the whole point,
both systems, both ideas as, you ought to have been focusing on the
one that created the problem begin with. Einstein says that whatever whoever created the
problem can't solve it. We didn't create the problem. I think we can
solve it. The alien created it, and I don't think he can solve
it. That's a very interesting perspective. Did you have anything more to say,
motive Wiser, I'll leave that to your imagination. Wait for the book.
I didn't think you would even go that far. I didn't think you.
I thought you're gonna tell me a guy. You're you're, you're,
You've made my stay here wonderful. My conference designer think that you and and
Carolyn have done a tremendous job, and you in particular, and so I'm
perfectly willing to uh give out more than I would in a regular interview.
Well and to be honest, you know, my perspective I try to face
this, especially with UFO Think Tank and a more objective. You know,
I'm trying to get information and everybody to share because everybody has some important things.
And my perspective tends to be, you know, more on the site
sometimes of the altruistic in the and there. But you know what's wonderful about
meeting you know, just varied in many great minds in this field, is
to hear all of this this information and data and you know this isn't stuff
that you came up with out of nowhere. You have a lot of research
that was done and I think that's what's great for us all to share and
open our minds to and like you said, you know, if they're trying
to pin us against each other. If we talk to each other, and
we can talk to each other civilly and instead of fighting against you know those
basics and move on. I think that'll move us somewhere. And some of
the things that you've done, I think, like you talked about with trying
to get an effect with them is very interesting because it sounds like you've been
successful. Like you talked about an experience with a lady who you asked her
to bring back Breddy Krueger's hat. In this case, the lady came to
me in tears, crying, and there was a hypno therapist I was training
at the time. It was nearline pilot who the best way to characterize him
is not cold, just clinical. I mean, you're not going to find
him crying over anything. He was nearly in tears listening to her. Please
please help me. They said, they're coming after my children if I give
you any more information, and she cried and cried and cried. I said,
do you think they're going to get your children anyway? She says yes.
I said, then the threat is simply veiled. It doesn't mean anything
because they've probably already done it anyway. If your kids are abductees, they
are anyway. If they're not, there won't be. They choose who they
will. That's my point is that the reason I don't want to help you,
in one sense of the word, is because you're a bigger lab rap
for me than you are for them. I said, I'm getting more data
and better information from you than I have in all of my abductees at one
time. That's how good your stuff is. I said. On the other
hand, based on my humanity, I said, I have to help you
because you've asked. As most people don't have presence of mind enough to me
to even ask for help. They're so busy whining about their problem or glorifying
the alien in such a way they don't realize there is a problem that.
I said, since you've asked, i'll help you. But I want something
from you. She said, what's that. I said, I want Freddy's
Krueger's hat. I want you to bring his hat back through the dream.
That's because I know your events are real. You'll never convince most people of
that until we can get Freddy Krueger's hat. She's what you want, And
I said, you want to do this program? She SyES this in sleep
that she just fell over, and then I installed a post hypnotic suggestion to
assault her captor. She assaulted her captor and tore half his eye cover off.
Amazingly enough, noticed that it wasn't part of his eye, and which
we've known for a long time. Later, she was not a very strong
woman, so I installed strength in her, and the next time she physically
put her left arm around the entity, so she captured him, and then
she reached up and grabbed the entire eye cover and tore the whole thing off.
This time, I wanted to bring the I cover back Freddy Krueger's hat,
so to speak. You know, if you think you've had a dream,
it's a wild dream and all that, and you bring back an IE
cover, it tends to indicate that that dream might not have been just a
dream. So at this point she got the IE cover off, and I
asked her a number of questions, like is is he in pain? She
says, no, it's not pain at all. He's not even wiggling or
trying to get away, which indicated he probably was biomechanical. And interestingly enough,
several other things happened, one of which Astor described the eye what was
under the eye cover, and she described his red sipple screen with these white
lines running back and forth across the eye. Well, that was very telling,
again indicating the possibility of a biomechanical device or something connecting to him.
And so, as I said before, when these little you do things,
these little guys can't comprehend or outside their purview, they'll bring help. This
time the doctor type, which looks just liking but he's a little taller usually
and he's a lot smarter. They brought three little entities and him, and
they brought a little doctor type. He came and as soon as she was
tearing ie cover off, the little guys are over trying to get the thing
out of out of her hand. One of them was on each finger and
they couldn't get her hand pride open. Finally, this doctor type walks over
with this little device that kind of looks like earphones, put them on her
head and she just tranced out instantly in her hand finally opened and he just
grabbed the eye cover and walked off with it. So we didn't get it.
The fact is that she feels that she actually did get the eye cover,
and she felt I should fail. She said, I feel like I've
betrayed you because it was obviously didn't bring the cover back. She didn't know
this herself in her conscious mind, and it was really funny and amazing how
that whole thing went down. But she's done some pretty incredible things. She
passed away this year. Her name is Linda Taylor, a wonderful lady,
and I just God bless her and God rest her soul for helping us.
She was a wonderful woman who helped us gather evidence, had a profound love
for her family and her children and did not want them abused or taken any
more like she was. And her husband's also an abductee. He's still alive
today and still in contact with me. Her children, her daughter is still
in contact with me, an abductee as well. And I've worked with that
family for over ten years and wonderful people. But the fact is that these
people have already been through the mill and drug through a not hole backwards,
so to speak, and they're really tired of it, and there is no
if you hear it from their perspective. I don't know if you've ever talked
to doctor Carla Turner but if you sit and tell her things like this,
how positive the alien probably could be, and we just don't get it,
that woman will tear your head off in anger. Her husband will lift up
his shirt and show you the claw marks for this reptiles torn him apart.
And then they'll look at you and ask do you think any part of that
was positive? And they don't usually say that in a real nice way.
But she was live. I mean a lot of people kind of feared that
little gal, a little, tiny type, and she's one of my abductees
and I just loved her a lot. She's a wonderful, wonderful lady.
And her husband, Elton was They've just got scars and battle scars on them
from their events. And I'll tell you you will never convince them, not
in the slightest. They'll ask you for your mentally ill and suggest you get
on your meds and get a counselor or something. You obviously don't have a
clue. They have no kind words whatsoever for anyone who has a differing opinion
based on their experience. Of course, it's their experience they're looking at.
But anyway, there's some people gone through some pretty tough things. Then the
tailors have been through this like that, and she passed away this year,
but she was she was my spy, so to speak. She was in
the field getting evidence well. And to end, I want to ask just
a couple more questions out they're sure just on euphology, but to end that
whole abduction thing and try to end it on a good note. You did
mention that you have ran across and abduction experience angelic type creatures. Yes,
that's an amazing sun. I'm glad you brought it up, Lejandro. The
rare cases where an angel will show up very rare in an abduction, the
alien takes off ninety miles an hour in the other direction as fast as they
can. They scatter like scared little chicks. It makes one wonder why would
you fear an angel. It's obvious you're not on the same side. Do
you believe these angels are aliens or something else? No, there's no question
the angels are not alien. The issue is based on everything we know from
these rare cases where these events have happened, And I have to tell you
that we've got some really good cases where they've where this has happened. I
know these people personally, I know their integrity. I know a lot about
the case. I'm not saying here. I'm simply telling you that the alien
is terrified of an angel. Aliens are not terrified of aliens. There's something
so radically different about this, about an angelic presence. And in fact,
in the famous Calvin Parker case, I told you about him coming off to
the craft with his stomach cut and how he assaulted his captor and all this,
and and then Charlie Hickson coming off the craft, you know, thinking
he's like he's glowing so to speak, you know, and so on,
And I can tell you a lot more about even that case where Charlie Hickson's
story doesn't bear out at all. I know I question him, and I
tell you would not believe the responses I got out of him because I questioned
him properly. There are ways you can ask questions, and I guarantee you
can elicit responses that will will absolutely stun you if you ask the questions properly.
And in these rare cases with the angelics, there is a decidedly a
clear viewpoint that there is no reckoning between the two, and one is infinitely
more powerful than the other, obviously, because one scattered and took off.
There is an ancient saying in the Bible that I liked real well. It
says, the wicked fleeth when no one pursueth. Have you ever tried to
have an abducte call in these angels? Try to? We actually had one
case where I actually wanted to do an experiment one night my daughter in law
when she first and force she became my daughter in law. She is a
lady in Brazil who fled her abductions, horrified by what was happening to her,
I mean, even with her mother, horrible stuff. When she got
to the United States, she had a thing on the back of her neck
looked like a U inside of you, like just two little letters basically inside
each other, and it was on the back of the neck. It looked
like a tattoo to me, and I've showed it tonight in our presentation,
and what was amazing about. Of course, I questioned her about that and
found that she had turned it in the Federal police of Brazil. The aliens
had done it, and that's why didn't you remove it? It looked like
a tattoo to me, She said, that is after tattoo removal. It's
not a tattoo anyway, A lot of horrific stuff went on with her.
One night, I was working on my computer and went to bed, and
next morning my wife and I got up and she was crying, and so,
what's wrong, she says. She started crying about the creature that came
in through the wall, the same one in Brazil. They found her again,
and she's crying and going, I mean, it's just got awful,
and she's just absolutely uncontrollable. I mean, like I said, you know,
you you have to be there. I really appreciate how ugly some of
this stuff gets. I'm cleaning it up here making it sound reasonable so it
doesn't sound disgusting, but I'm telling you I was there, I know.
So anyway, she cries and cries and cries, and I said, well,
you know it's all over though, you know, she said, you
know, you don't understand. She said, my events come and freeze.
They'll be back tonight. And she said it happens on the third month,
on the third day, at three in the morning. Well that's interesting.
So I said, well tomorrow night I'll be up. Oh, thank you,
thank you. She's so grateful. You know, hey, come to
my house. You're gonna pay you gotta pay rent, or you're gonna pay
up. Something's gonna happen you. So that night, about two in the
morning, I got thinking, you know, here is a wonderful chance for
us to test to see if we could do something better. And I thought,
I'm gonna pray about this, and I did. I felt absolutely wonderful
with the answer that I got that I ought to just leave this in the
Lord's hands. I just felt real comfortable with that. Enough with the bad.
I mean, here's my chance to face off with one of these cosmic
skinheads, and I've turned it down so on faith, I just left the
situation. This is in my own home. And I left the situation,
went to bed, just felt great about it, felt I was doing the
right thing. Went to bed. Next morning, get up, she's screaming
and crying, and oh it was awful. It was terrible. See,
it was worse than the day before. I said, well, what in
the world have I done? This is weird. What did I do wrong?
Here? I thought this was good. I thought I thought, I
really thought this was correct. I mean, this was this was the right
thing. To do, and she describes this creature trying to come in,
and she picked up the piece of stovewood off our fireplace She's going to hit
him with. It made him mad. What's funny about the dam? This
is really weird and also happened in the Varghena incident as well. They sounded
like a bunch of bees inside their head. They buzz really weird when they're
angry or upset. A lot of people don't know that. Yeah, so
she's she's swinging this stovewood at him and it sets back outside and all of
a sudden, something, she said, Darryl, she said, something so
horrific and so powerful, infinitely worse than him, comes through the wall and
she describes just, I mean, it's just horrible. Man, I should
have stayed up this show. And then she starts crying. I said,
why are you crying? Now? What you know? The end of the
event's over here you're telling me and she says she just, I mean,
just was in tears, and joy I said. She said, I'm happy,
And I said, why, what what happened? This bad guy's there
and you're happy? She says, yes, she said, this angel showed
up, so magnificent and powerful, and this horrible creature and the alien took
off. They ran away as fast as they could get away. I was
so happy. So I told her about what I'd done, and she said,
I wonder where you were at. Why you didn't get up. You
don't leave me alone, you don't listen. So next time, I said,
it happens three, she said, yes, I will be up.
All I said, I don't care what happens three o'clock in the morning,
I will be there. And she was sleeping on a little palette we've made
forward there in the live. So I worked on my computer. At about
two thirty, I went in, got my Japanese sword, sharpened it up,
walked in and sit down right next to her and listen. Leaned back
against a chair. She's over there, not about four or five feet away,
on her little pallette, sound asleep. About two forty five, she
sets up. I mean tell you like she woke up and never bat at
the night, like she just was switched on. She sets up and looks
at me. She says, I know you're here. She was sound asleep.
Wow, And I said sleep. She lays back down and goes to
sleep exactly at three o'clock in the morning, she wakes up again. I
mean, why is wide open? She didn't wake up. She was like,
she switched on, looks at me, and she said, they know
you're here. And I said, you know, I'm glad they do because
now I know, you know, they know that I know. And now
I know that they know that. I know that they know. Now that
we all know what I know, and they know why I'm here. And
the fact their cowards won't come through that wall, I said, I'm just
delighted the fact they they're not making it. I said, I wish they
would. I said, I'll tell you something, that's one of these days
I'm gonna be on the other side of that wall, and that's gonna be
the sad day of his life. He's not gonna be scaring anybody else after
that. That'll just be too bad. I don't have any respect for anybody
does that kind of stuff, human beings or anyone else. If humans are
doing that to aliens, I wouldn't like it. Well, that's significant.
I think, you know, maybe I'm an optimist here, but I think
that whole story, you know, is very significant. It's very empowering,
very positive and uplifting, and it was enormously important for her. Two final
questions, I thank you for that story, and I love that story.
That's gonna I know that's going to be with me for a while UFOs.
Getting back to UFOs, two quick questions, more related to the website and
some of the stuff I'm exploring UFOs. Do you have an idea whether UFOs
are solely alien? Are also unknowns that are built by humans as well?
Maybe you know super secret projects too, to try to explore that area.
Are UFOs also human made? And if so, what makes you believe that,
Well, there are UFOs that are human made. There's no question about
it. There's evidence of it. Area fifty one is proof of it.
Anybody's got half a brain already knows that. I have a friend that actually
went out through, got through all the tech equipment had up or before they
put a lot of it up years ago, back in nineteen ninety five,
and he actually got through and actually watched them out in the bushes. He
was up next to the feet watching that craft take off and do them incredible
things light on off all of it, I mean amazing, And there's no
question in my mind that that thing's powered by us. I don't know what
it is, but we've got some pretty bizarre stuff we're working on. You
can't have a budget of hundreds of millions of dollars every year that even the
Congress cannot look at or inquire into and think for an instant that they're actually
paving roads with all that money. They don't pay roads. That money,
they spend it on other things. And they're not spending on this or that
or war or whatever that All that money is already allocated anyway for other things.
So this money is private and none to themselves. In the intelligence community,
the ciad IA if it's intelligence agency, I'm telling you that there's this
enormous am money and there's just what in the world is that money being spent
on. I mean, it's not just keeping up to They just opened up
a two hundred square mile area, just opened it up. I think it
was the Department, thinks in the paper today the Department, the Defense Intelligence
Agency opened up a two hundred square mile of just like another green lake just
opened up in paper today. I just thought this morning breakfast. So there
are things out there. As I told the Japanese, they paid me two
thousand dollars for an interview, which is about a fourth is long. So
I for of you owed me about ten grand. Oh jeez, And they
paid me two thousand dollars for this thing. They flew me out to Los
Angeles first class, and then they asked me a number of questions. I
said, you know minta team, what do you do? What do you
know about Area fifty one? I said absolutely nothing. At that point I
thought they probably felt they wasted their money, But I told them I've never
been there at fifty one know much about it. I said. The thing
I can tell you about Area fifty one is it's not nearly as important as
White Sands Missile Range. What do you mean, I said, well,
White Sands Missile Range where I lived for thirteen years. There's a big sign
out there right very front when you drive through there says don't ope, don't
pull your camera out. You know what they mean it. They'll arrest you
and have you in front of a federal magistrate within thirty minutes. If in
that's assuming you're just being stupid and doing what they told you not to.
If they think you're spying, you're going to go to federal prenicentiary. Now
you can go to Area fifty one and earn these signs. Can't say you
can't take any pictures all. In fact, there are all kinds of pictures.
Every fifty one Japanese took the best pictures there ever was showed the doors
on the side of the mountains out there. I mean, it's amazing the
photos they got. Why have to put them in jail for respionage because what
you're seeing out in early fifty one is what you're supposed to see. And
if people aren't aware, White Sands Missile basis literally right across the street from
Roswell essentially, well, it's in New Mexico. Almagordo is in Halliman Air
Force Base is next to it. And I've lived out there for thirteen years
and I'm telling you that. And I told the Japanese, I said,
you know, Area fifty two is a lot more important than every fifty one.
Fifty two Being White Sans, they said, we're area of fifty two.
I said Area fifty two. I said, it's located of course in
Australia, right, I said, there's an interesting base there. It's an
American base and it's the middle of Australia. First of all, you got
to fly to Australia to get there. Yeah, I said. The laws
there in Australia a lot different than ours. They'll put you in jail for
fifty years. You go out there and carry camera out there and next do
that kind of stuff out there. You gotta fly there and get there,
and then you go to prison for doing it. Yeah, the MoveOn director
an International director John Shusher cut a tour short in Australia for that reason.
He was getting messed with and not a good area way. Their laws are
not like ours. They'll mess with you there. And the National Security Agency
and the CIA there don't have any laws like they do here. And the
laws over there for intelligence they ain't no law. You want to get messed
with, you want to get hurt, you want to go to prison,
Go ahead and go out to find gap and find out what happens. These
people will mess with you. One last question. I know it's late,
but I got you. You're going back to Texas, so I gotta get
them in disclosure. First of all, I guess what would be your ideal
way of disclosure to come out? And then the second part of the question
being how do you think it might actually come about? If you think it
will come about. I don't think disclosure is going to happen the way the
UFO community wants it to. I wished I had a hire hope for that,
but I just don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it's
gonna happen for a number of reasons. I don't want to get into here
because I don't want it to be political, and I'm not picking on anybody.
It's just that I'm just telling you that I used to be an intelligence
business and you're being set up. I'm afraid you're gonna get hurting if you
go in there, and if you get a congressional meeting, you're gonna be
You're gonna be shocked because there are people sitting in there in your group that
already been planted. You're not gonna win. I already know that. So
I don't think disclosure is gonna happen like that anyway. And that's just my
personal opinion. That fifty cents to get your bad cup cough won't even let
you in the front door Starbucks. So I think disclosure can happen in other
ways. And I hate to say this this way, but you really need
something more like a day the Order stood still type deal. I think if
you could catch an alien as an example, and a craft is an example
somewhere or another, I think you would be a lot better off. You've
created your own roswell. Or maybe we should I get a whole host of
angels on our site before we attempt that. It works for me. If
they're there for hire, I'll be glad to hire them in a minute.
Or tell me where they're at, where they're work, and we'll get them
on board here well. And that's one of the big premises is why I
started this organized group because I don't want I don't think disclosure coming from quote
unquote officials is going to be helpful or healthy. I think if we talk
amongst each other and kind of a public disclosure amongst each other is going to
help us go a lot further. There is an enormous lack of leadership in
the UFO community. They're just is that basically we're all out here fire and
warm guns, so to speak. Well, it's hard for us to degree
on the but it's not just agreement there. There are there are huge egos
here at stake. I don't mind following a good leader. I don't care.
It doesn't bother me. The problem is the few good people that are
trying to do the right thing, that are in big leadership position, and
people are doing that. Most of them are smart enough realize, you know,
you might as well stay out of it. You're going to you're gonna
draw a lot of fire down on yourself, and a few people who've tried
to tamper with that a little bit and try to really do stuff have been
shot up pretty bad. I mean, it's bad. You will pay the
price because these egos. But some of these people are so huge they're just
not gonna It doesn't lend itself to that. So you're going to have to
do something outside that, in my view, to come up with your own
disclosure. And I think we all have our own personal disclosures we have to
make. Some of us are still sitting in the closet hiding because we don't
want to talk about our abductions. We don't talk about our real experiences because
my god, you know, I mean not opening the Pandora's box for myself.
So I think the real people, the heroes in my view, in
all this business of the abductees, I think in time you're going to see
that they were telling the truth. It's provable, and there's legal and government
documents that prove this, prove it, and in fact, these people,
some of them, will be re in fact his great heroes in the American
and other publics around the world, simply because they came forward at a time
where it was it was the worst thing you could do was stand out in
front of your friends and the rest of the world and say I'm an abductee.
Yep. And some of us already believe their heroes and people like you
being an ugh ductee and coming out, not just coming out, but also
seeking for more answers and for more truth. And you know, I think
that's a good note to it. Well, optimistic cautious. You can be
an optimist, you just got to be cautious about it. That's it for
this interview. Thank you very much for tuning in, and I hope you
enjoyed the interview. Join us next week. We'll be back on the air
with the news and we're going to have Joe mcmonocle. This is really exciting
because he was the first military remote viewer, and we'll ask him all about
the remote viewing he did and how he's learned it, and you know what
he saw because he does believe in extraterrestrials and like many remote viewers, they
have remote viewed UFOs and seen some very interesting things. So this is going
to be a lot of fun. As always, visit openminds dot tv for
the latest news, to get your news fixed that you missed this week,
and we will talk to you next week. Have a great day off.
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