Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and
I think we have a show for you this evening. I did what I
always do in that as I do it a sound test with our guest earlier
on. Everything was just fine. And now when we get him on Skype,
he's saying hello, Hello. That's all we got so far. So
we have Bill in the background. Thank you. Bill. He's going to
try to work that out, and so we're not really getting too far,
but we will see how things go. We get to this news with Alejandro
Rojas for about fifteen minutes, so during that time hopefully we will connect.
And anyway, I want to thank everyone that supports the show. Anyone can
support the show, all you have to do is go over to podcast ufo
dot com and check it out over there. Also, we have a new
blog this week called rockin UFOs that's by Charles Lear and it's about some rock
stars, not all of them because a lot of them have had UFO experiences,
but some of them are listed there. So go check that out over
at podcast ufo dot com and our Facebook page. We've got I don't know
twenty three thousand or so people are over there, and the reason they're there
is because Peggy in Las Vegas is kind enough to post a news story every
day on their one kind or another in relation to UFOs or space, interesting
subjects things like that. And I think it's about ready for me to stop
talking and to get Alejandro in a how are you welcome to the show?
Hello? Thank you for having me. Well, you might have, you
might have doing the whole show with me. I know you've got things to
do. But anyway, deer in the headlights looking, so, how are
you doing? Have you how you relaxed yet a little bit? Not really
a little bit? Yeah, yeah, I probably look better because I'm not
totally freaked out. But it's been kind of crazy. In fact, I
am like super busy again because there was the UFO Congress. We took a
few days off and then I sold my house and it sold way more quickly
than I expected, And so I am literally moving out because I have to
be out by the end of the week, and in fact, I am
tempting to have everything ready tomorrow. So yeah, so it's crazy goodness,
wow, And so why why am I moving out of my house? And
what the heck is going on? Yeah, it's just about ready to ask
that the answers to that question may have implications in the UFO field, which
will be I think for our listeners very interesting. So I don't have anything
to share. Unfortunately, I can't share anything now, and I hate it
because I told this all the time, there's good stuff coming up, but
luckily it's lately when I've been told that it's come true. You know,
we've got a lot of amazing things that have been happening, and there's more
great stuff in store, and I'll share with you all as soon as i
can. But yes, I'm really exciting stuff on the horizon excellent. Well,
you know, usually I know kind of the inside story and I have
to keep a list. But I'm part of this. Uh, the people
on this side that going are yeah, not at all. So I have
an idea and I'll show that I have an idea. Okay, Well,
either way, you'll be one of the first to know. Of course,
in your audience often gets to know stuff before my audience because if I'm too
busy to do my show. Luckily, I'm usually able to still pop on
with you. And I have had some people where are you, where's your
podcasts and you know, hopefully i'll have it up again soon and or some
bigger, better news for everybody. But yeah, so that's up. What's
up with me? Of course, there's lots of UFO news out there.
Should we get into that. I think we should. Okay, So it's
a lot more complicated than what we're reading in the headlines. We're seeing headlines
such as UFOs are real. The Navy says UFOs are real, and the
Navy UFO videos are real, which is significant. Of course, Life Science
has a headline here that says UFOs are real and you were never supposed to
see them. Military official says. There was also a political story of a
week ago Navy withholding data on UFO sidings, according to a congressman. So
let's get into break all this down. So what the heck is going on?
So here's something that's kind of strange. We've got confirmation and essentially the
representative spoke to or sent a message to John Greenwall of the Black Bowl saying
that yes, those videos, which confirms essentially what lu Alisando was telling us
our UAPs. We don't know what they are, we don't think they're a
Russian. We don't think they're Chinese. They didn't say that explicitly, but
that's essentially what they're saying. They're UAPs. They don't know what these things
are. That's very significant because that means they feel they've ruled everything else out.
They've ruled out Chinese, they've ruled out the Russians, they've ruled out
some secret project that is ours that somehow, you know, got the scene
by the Roosevelt crew or the Nimitz crew who took those videos, the pilots
that were part of those groups that took those videos. So they're saying that
they feel those are genuine unknown represented in those videos. The weird thing is
they also told him those videos were not to be released to the public.
On the surface, that may seem like, oh my gosh. You know,
so Lou was kind of a whistleblower. He released these UFO videos even
though he wasn't supposed to normally. Of course, for the UFO community,
that'd be very exciting. Everybody'd be like, Wow, that's great, this
whistleblower got the info out, which is what we've been waiting for. Unfortunately,
some of the naysayers out there, including mister Greenwald, are like,
oh, look, he released these things and he didn't go through the proper
procedures. However, we just got a couple of weeks ago, and I
got this myself in my own fourier request an email string regarding the release of
those videos. Not only do we have a release form that was that was
filled out and stamped by the Navy approved for release, we also got an
email correspondence where you can see Alizondo discussing with the Navy about the release of
the videos. So we have this correspondence, we have this document that all
shows the videos were released for the public. Yet we have this uh you
know, press public the relations person saying no, they weren't supposed to be
released to the public. So it creates some problems. First of all,
why are they doing this. This keeps happening over and over again. They
say they when they acknowledge something as real, like even when they acknowledge that
the DD nineteen ten to form that allows a release of those videos, even
when they confirmed that was real, they said, how however, you know
it wasn't supposed to be released to the general public. Now, this is
after they said those videos had nothing to do with the Department of Defense,
and they were not released by the Department of Defense. That was not true.
They had everything to do with the Department Offense. They were released by
the Navy. In fact, we know of even though not all their names
are revealed about You know, some of us know, and at least we
know of the pilots, and we know the pilots who know the pilots who
took those videos and are interacted with those objects. So they certainly were taken
by Navy pilots who were chasing something that they did not know what it was.
Why the Navy is saying that these were not supposed to be seen by
the public, I don't know why they would say that, especially when we
have these emails, we have this document that says otherwise. But it gets
even further. So Mark Mike Walker, he's in the House Command for Homeland
Security and he's a very important Republican in the House. He wrote a letter,
it was a very educated letter to the Navy saying, hey, you've
got these UFOs. You have these UAPs. You're confirming that you have them.
What are they? Whose are they? If they're really unidentified, why
are you saying that you canceled your investigation the a tip group that Louis Lazondo
worked for in twenty twelve. Why don't you continue to do that investigation.
I want to know who's investigating that and if not, why you're not why
not? And so they gave a response, and the response was essentially,
we are investigating them. You know, we do briefly Arm Services Committee,
and that's about it, which he took as kind of a blowoff, and
he essentially has said to Politico Brian Bender of Politico a week ago, Hey,
I'm not happy about this. The Navy is blowing me off, and
the Navy is hiding information on you fos. So it's kind of strange that
the Navy would come out and say those videos should not have been released.
We did not intend that when there's documentation showing that at least the people who
would prove it did seem to intend those videos to be out to the public.
And when they're being criticized for not sharing information, why would they then
go and say, oh, look, here's another example where we're not sharing
information, just like Congressman and Walker is upset with us about. So it's
a very strange situation. I can say this though, that there is a
lot of interface in the background with some of these witnesses from the Navy.
You know, there are people involved like we saw on the show unidentified like
lou Alesando and Steve Justice and Chris Mellon who are also speaking with officials.
I have a feeling, and this is just my feeling, I think that
there's a lot of still kind of chaos going on as far as people understanding
all the different departments in the DoD trying to come to terms with this new
world of UFOs being a credible thing. And I think that we're going to
see more cooperation and we're going to see some of these issues cleared up in
the future, hopefully the near future, but I'm pretty sure this is going
to happen. As all of these groups begin to work together, information starts
to get to all of the departments. I think what we have to understand
is that these public affairs people, they are very, very detached from the
guys out in the field, the pilots or the people that are actually running
these programs. A Tip in particular was a program that was secretive. Harry
Reid by design didn't want people to really know about it, mostly because he
didn't want people to make fun of it and be embarrassed by But but you
know, I think that we're moving We're going to be moving forward together as
opposed to all of this weirdness that's going on. But Martin, are you
still there? Yeah, I'm here. I want to hear your thoughts.
What do you think of all of this? I mean, well, you
know, I've been letting you. I'll be honest with you. I've been
letting you. I've been trying to get our guests on the phone, so
I've been hearing just bits and pieces. I feel really, uh like I'm
caught. Now, well, let me ask you this way then I am
here. I am here now, Oh great, great, all right,
Rob, we'll introduce you. Just thank you, thank you, Okay,
But I do want to ask you this before before we end the news.
You know, from your perspective, you see, you know this this email
string where apparently they're giving lou permission to release those videos, and then we
have this new news that they're saying those videos are genuinely UAPs, they're unidentified,
but we did mean to release them to the public. I mean,
what does that make you think you know, I gotta tell you, I've
been trying to follow this and I'm totally the more this goes on, and
I don't know if anyone shares this with me at all, but the more
confused I get, I get it. Yeah, I don't understand what's going
on, and I just wish there could be some type of clarity from you
know, like you said, I heard you say, you know, all
the groups perhaps working together, you know, maybe this can be cleared up
and there could be some focus on what exactly is going on, because as
time goes on, it just seems more and more confusing to me all the
time. I really don't know what does that. I don't blame you,
and I don't understand why these why they keep muddling the water like this,
and why they keep making statements that, especially like this one, that we
already have information that counters from the Navy that counters this part that they didn't
mean to release those videos. So it's it's very strange. It's really weird.
But I think I just counted down to I think people are just not
all in the same page, and over time, I think they will get
on the same page. At least I'm hopeful. Do you think there's any
do you think there's any possibility that there's someone is being fed disinformation in this
whole thing to make it confusing like it is, or do you think it's
just miscommunication? Well here and I believe this is an objective perspective, and
I don't think that I'm being biased in that. Other people who are objective,
despite you know, some criticism, are coming to the same conclusion.
The waters are getting muddy by these the public affairs the part the public Affairs
departments. At first, I think we were all like, who's telling the
truth, what's going on? But what we've seen over time is that Elesando,
the claims that he's made have been backed up by documents. Most of
these documents were leaked by George Knapp, but they were confirmed to be real,
either by the DoD themselves or by people involved with the DoD. So
we see that at least lou has had a consistent record of being accurate and
having people back him up on that. So I think that if there is
disinformation, it's being introduced by the public affairs departments. And why is that?
Is it that they're honestly getting it wrong? And they're making genuine mistakes,
is that that they have been given wrong information and then they have to
later correct themselves. At this point, because they have to keep correcting themselves,
I mean, it's hurting their credibility. I don't know why anybody would
kind of take their word for anything at this point, because they keep consistently
being wrong, and I don't know why. I think it's probably you know,
speaking of Greenwald, over the years, he's taught us this, He's
shown us that these public affairs departments typically don't have the best information, even
when he's taken documents he knows to exist and they say no, they don't
exist, and he's like, well, look I've got it right here.
I think that it's a difficult job. They don't have a lot of access
to information. So I don't know if it's a genuine mistake or they're trying
to muddy the waters because they just are not happy about being left out of
the loop of the release of this information. Could be the latter. You
know, our friend, our good friend Lee Spiegel's listening and he's just texting
me a couple of things. His opinion is, you know, one hand
doesn't know what the other hand, does and that's always been this way historically.
No government wants to risk the negative feedback that will happen if they acknowledge
the existence of UFOs. So that's Lee's opinion, So he just joined us.
Yeah, I think that's up in there. Yeah, that these different
departments they don't know what each other are doing. So, you know,
I do feel for the Public Affairs Department because they're on the back foot and
they're having to figure stuff out and it's probably frustrating for them, and they
probably wish someone would have briefed them prior to all of this coming down.
But to lose point, I think lu didn't want anybody to know he was
going to share this information because he didn't want it to be shut down before
he shared it. He wanted the public to get this information. I think
that many of us appreciate that, and that this information is now out.
So it's a tough situation, and that's what I ascribe it to. I
don't personally see definitive proof that anybody is disinforming anyone, But if there is
disinformation the group that's been wrong, it's the Public Affairs Department, So that's
where it would be coming from but I couldn't see them wanting. I hope
that that's not what they're doing. I think it's more along the lines of
what Lee saying, and they're just not all on the same page, and
hopefully over time they will get there. Right, Just to let you know
that, Lee followed all that up with he's the only human that knows the
truth? Who Lee? Yeah, Well, now he's claiming he's human,
and I'm not so sure. I doubt that too. I've always had that
feeling. Yeah, all right, Hey, Alejandro, thanks so much.
I appreciate it, and thanks for hanging in. And we do have our
guest on the line, and of course Lye wants me to plug the film
the phenomenon you know, coming up. I did as Yeah, and he
did a great presentation at the UFO Congress. He revealed for the first time
a lot of what's in there at and we will be posting that video pretty
soon here so everybody can see that on our video on demand. That's right,
all right, Alejandro, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Thank you, Matty. Talk to you, Sam, talk to you soon.
Okay, So we're not going to take a break at the time.
We usually do. In a couple of minutes, we're going to go all
the way to the six fifty five pm Eastern Standard time, so that's when
our break will be. Just one break tonight, is what I'm getting at.
So our guests, Rob Shelski, he's an avid and eclectic writer.
Average it's about four thousand words a day. Wow, I wonder what Nick
Redfern does. Must be somewhere around there. But anyway, he has a
degree in science. He is. He has a show coming up on the
Travel Channel. We can talk about that. He's actually the on camera expert.
And welcome to the show, Rob, thanks for having me. I
didn't think I was going to make If you're tonight, I know that's so
weird. All your settings went haywire, but somehow you figured them out and
here you are. Yeah, I rebooted everything. Too bad. We can't
do that with our lives sometimes. Yeah, there's many times I've I've to
do that. Yeah, just that one little mistake I want to change,
you know. But anyway, welcome to the show. Can you tell the
listening audience a little bit about your background and what got you interested in this
topic? Sure, my background started when I was very young, was always
interested in UFOs. I had a couple of odd experiences that way. My
brother had one, which was kind of the turning point for me because when
he told me about his it made me really think a lot more about UFOs
and I began to research them. I was a journalist for Alien Skin magazine,
investigative journalist and went on site to various locations. I was a mouf
on field investigator. I've been investigating UFOs on my own now for about thirty
years. And as I do research, I write books about what I find
out, and quite a few books got published, to the point where now
apparently they're considering me an on camera expert. But we'll see about that.
Yeah, I heard, you know, I've I've had a lot of talks
about you know. I was contacted from I think it was a history channel
a while ago and they said, we would like to talk to you about
finding us a UFO expert. And I said, well, if anyone claims
or a UFO expert, run the other way. Absolutely. Yeah, I
don't think, you know, I know that I know just as much about
them or less than I did. You know, eight eight years ago,
eight years ago when I started the show coming up. But I'm sorry you
say you know just about the same amount as you did, any I think
I know less? Oh well, you know it's kind of true the way,
because every time you come up with another question, you're adding to the
knowledge you don't have. And the more we learn about UFOs, the more
questions we have Like that right now, Have you ever personally had a sighting
of your own? Yes, I had a weird sighting, well, I
can't really call it a sighting when I was about six in Australia. I
woke up one night in an absolute panic and fear, and I walked into
the hallway and I saw what looked like some kind of space person or creature
looking at me through the back door. A hallway went straight from the front
door to the back, and the back door had glass in it, and
I panicked and I ran into my parents' room and told them what I was
seeing, And of course my father goes, you're Joe having a nightmare.
To go back to bed. But that has stuck with me all my life.
That was no dream, whatever it was. So I've just decided that
I was interested in UFOs after that and got into it all the more.
Wow. So did you see any signs of any lights or anything like that
or was it just whatever that being was? Oddly, at the time was
when we had a full solar eclipse over Australia within like a day later,
so I don't know if there's any connection there or not. Now since then,
I have sent a UFO over Greensboro and being a move on field investigator,
have been exposed to a lot of people and the sites where they said
they saw things, and I would guess about five to seven percent are probably
seeing something that is out of the ordinary. I certainly did. Again,
it's like with you, you can sort of figure out what they're not,
it's what they are that leaves you wondering. I mean, I looked at
this thing for about gosh almost two minutes over Greensboro, and I had time
to rule out a jet, a helicopter, dridgible, a drone, of
air balloon, all of this stuff. So I know what it wasn't.
I just don't know what it was other than it was an unidentified flying object.
Well, you just reminded me that I just posted about an hour or
so ago one of the interviews that I did out at the UFO Congress.
I'm just letting people know that on YouTube if you want to check that out.
And that's about the Victorian UFO Action Group. They were visiting the States.
They went to Roswell, they went to Sokoro, and they went to
the UFO Congress. So I sat down with I think about six of them
and had a nice conversation. So check that out on YouTube. That's on
Martin Willis Live Shows on YouTube. Also, it will be a podcast posted
this coming week on our website for supporters only, so check that out anyway.
So when did you move out of Australia. How old were you when
you moved here to the States? Are you from? Were you born in
Australia? No, I was born in Texas. My mother was Australian.
We emigrated there. We came back when I was twelve. I lived in
Texas about six weeks after I was born, so I don't really know Texas
well. But yeah, I came back and slowly got more and more into
the whole thing. Lived in San Diego, went to university in Canada,
San Diego State. But all through this the UFO process kept slowly developing.
For me, there was a sighting over San Diego. Fifty thousand people saw
it at the San Diego Stadium arena, and so I wasn't the only one.
But whatever it was, we don't know. It was a mystery space
object was the headlines in the newspaper. And then I saw the UFO in
Greensboro, and my brother has missing time. So I just sort of gradually
fell into all of this. And if anyone asks me do I believe in
UFOs, I say no, I don't believe in them. I think there's
enough evidence to suppose they actually exist. It's like saying you believe in a
refrigerator, or don't believe what you believe or not they're there. Yeah,
my friend Sam Moronto is really big on that, exactly what you're saying,
and you know, he always cringes when someone says or asked him if he
if he believes in UFOs. Kind of goes along that same line. So
you're here in the States, and when was this at the stadium in San
Diego that you're talking about. Oh, that was back in the early seventies,
I believe, And then the Greensboro's siding was two years ago. And
okay, yeah, so that one was more recent. I don't think they're
singing me out. Maybe they are. Maybe they're singing out my family because
again my brother has missing time and so it is his friend and they don't
know if they were abducted or not because they've never gone through any kind of
hypnosis. I kind of warned him against that. Yeah, that's that's a
double edged sword. And speaking of that, Calvin Parker from the Pascagoula incident,
we're in touch all the time now. Of course I met him out
out in Phoenix and he's been on the show a number of times. So
Calvin just was regressed. He just went through regression therapy. And that's going
to be transcribed. If anyone's following that, you can check out Phil Mantle's
website, I'm sorry, Phil Mantle's Facebook page. He's going to put the
transcription of the which I think is very daring of Calvin Parker. He's going
to post that transcription at some point. Regression therapy. Yeah, I understand
it can be scary, and you know, people like I've mentioned as before,
Travis Walton said he went he did it once, he would never do
it again, And a lot of people are scared, you know, by
what they may find out. They don't want to know, and things are
better off just the way they are. So I know there's a you know,
there's a there's some people that can do a really nice job, and
some people that may lead someone along. But what what was your thoughts when
you told your brother that? When I told him about the hypnotism? Yeah,
well yeah, he wanted to know why, and I said, well,
the definition of hypnotism is the power of suggestion, and unless you have
an extremely well qualified hypnotist, they can plant false memories that you then when
you wake up, believe are real and you think of them as real from
that point forward. All they have to do is say something like tell us
about your UFO experiences, and that plans the suggestion and the human mind,
according psychologists, is very flexible and quite willing to make up any fabricated stories
you like to please you. But unfortunately, then when you wake up,
you remember them as being real. But that is the power of suggestion.
They can make you believe you're a chicken or a dog or a cat,
or they can make you believe you had memories of something you didn't have.
This has also been a problem with reincarnation regression as well. Interesting. Interesting,
So can you tell us did you already describe the sighting you had in
Greensboro or was that that wasn't when you described yet? Right? No,
it was a silver orb shaped craft. At first, I thought it was
the nose of a jet because there was some clouds in the sky. Well,
just the nose of a jet. I was stopped at a stoplight and
I was a move on field investigator at the time, and I thought,
Okay, that's just a jet coming out from clouds. But it wasn't.
It came out of the clouds and it was like a silver orb. And
then right away my so called professionalism kicked in and I began to try to
find out what it wasn't so I could kind of pin what it was.
Unfortunately, my phone was dead so I couldn't take any pictures. And my
state director asked me. She said, why did you report it? Robert
said, no, I didn't report it. She said why. I said,
We're getting reports of UFOs by the thousands every year. Just knowing that
someone else saw another UFO doesn't really add significantly to our database other than the
location in the time, which I said, is a valid thing to add.
But we have tons of data now over decades and decades. We need
to start utilizing the data to get some answers. And how would you think
that? What does that look like to you? Well, it takes extensive
research. Move On has a huge database which I had access to for quite
a while. And what you start doing is trying to cross relate things.
Where are the hot spots? Are there hot spots? Are their patterns to
this? Are there areas that could see more UFOs than not? Of course
we know that there are, but is there anything more to it? You?
More specific? Are UFO sightings on the rise? What type of UFOs
are we seeing? Is it more triangles and less cylinders, less flying saucer
types. There's so much information we could find out. We could probably find
trends and we could probably ascertain quite a bit about what their capabilities are.
There's been enough sightings, film and photos legitimate once I'm not talking about the
hoaxes, of course, the photoshops where we should be able to start using
the statia to arrive at some answers. And that's why I'm in this business.
I want answers. Now, you said, that you've been at this
for about thirty years, I seem to have noticed that there's a lot more
triangles. Maybe it's just that there's maybe I just hear about it more.
But have you seen over the years like a change in what people are claiming
they see. Yes, definitely, triangles are really on the rise and have
been. They first started seeing around late nineteen eighties, early nineteen nineties along
the Husband River Valley, a vast, silent triangle about the size of a
football field hovered over a house, made almost no noise at all, and
if it had any noises, like a low hum, and it did have
lights underneath it. And from that point forward, and actually I went up
to the area of Pine Bush, New York and camped out there for a
number of days in the hopes of spotting some UFOs. Unfortunately, and that
trip I did not golf breeze. Yes, I did see one. So
but I do take these investigatory trips abroad to England for a superstorm of UFOs,
pine Bush golf breeze, Florida, anywhere where there seems to be a
large number of sidings, I'll go to check it out. What's your idea
on why there are hot spots. Well, the data seems to show that
they do, like military bases, nuclear power plants, that sort of thing.
However, we seem to be seeing them all over the place, and
the yes sightings are on the rise. Some psychiatrists felt that it was the
fear and anxiety of the Cold War that caused many people to think they saw
a UFO when they didn't, and it was like a Cold War hysteria.
So they felt that once the Cold War was over, these whould drop off.
The reverses happened. These number of settings have gone up and almost on
an annual basis. Partly it's because people have more phones, they're becoming more
aware of it. They've got more cameras with those phones, so we're getting
a lot more input now. Whereas before people would see one but didn't have
a camera handy, you know, because they didn't have phone cameras. So
but now they do and they're taking pictures and with that evidence, they're willing
to report it. You know. I can't remember who it was. I
think it was a set shot stack from Setti. By the way, he's
going to be on hopefully next month if all goes well. We're going to
be talking actually UFOs. But he said something like, why don't we have,
with all the millions of cell phones camera, you know, camera taking
cell phones in everybody's pocket, why don't we have a really good clear picture
of a UFO? And to me, when I see a really clear picture,
the first thing I think of a CGI or something. But so,
what would be your answer to someone like Seth Shostack on that question. Well,
first of all, it's you're not expecting to ever see a UFOs,
so you have to see one. You have to react. I have to
grab your phone, you have to turn it on, you have to quickly
focus. And frankly, camera phones are not the best for taking pictures.
They want to do everything automatically, so they tend to fuzzy the picture.
They're trying to focus on the background, and this thing can be so far
away that they simply don't want to focus on, so the picture often comes
out fuzzy. However, I've seen some pretty darn good evidence of UFOs,
and our photo analysts that move on certainly have determined that many of them are
real and not touched up or photoshopped. I have a conversation with Mark dan
Conio, who's actually now he's a you know, MUFON's photo and video analysts.
A lot of people don't like him. They think he's a debunker.
I like Mark. He's a character and he's you know, basically says that
there's only been a couple of photos that he thinks, you know, maybe
really can be something. He is really good at figuring out what is not.
Just like you said earlier in your conversation, you know what something is
not, you know, I you know, I showed him something one time
I thought for sure was a mistaken picture that I took, and right away
he said, it looks like something was on your window. So sure enough,
I went into my car window and I looked at the angle where I
took the picture, and there was a little tiny piece of grass sitting on
the window that looked like a perfect disc. So that can happen. But
anyway, you know, I gotta tell you you just mentioned about how difficult
phones can be or not that good. But I was out in my front
yard on the water and a bald ego came in and landed like twenty five
feet away from me in the water and grabbed a big fish and I'm fumbling
and fumbling with my phone, and by the time I actually got the photo
whatever it's called the app open, he was already gone. He'd already dragged
up exactly. And also, if that bird was flying away from you at
any speed, your camera would be trying to constantly be focused on a vanishing
dot, and it's very hard for these automated cameras to do that. They
want to focus on a wider field if they can, and they do have
their problems. They also been noted for causing orbs. The slightest duscimo and
a digital camera will pick it up and turn it into an ORB. And
I've had that happened to me. I had a new house, but walked
in, took some pictures I didn't see the orbs came out and all my
photos were loaded with these little orbs all over the place. Turned out there
were dusimos from the construction people. So and on a investigation of a haunted
mansion in Ohio, I thought I had ectoplasm caught in one film. It
was my own breath, quite good on camera. It was a cold light.
So again you have to be so careful. But Moufon is extremely careful.
We rule out about ninety five percent of all of the reports. I
have had reports that were really darned good reports, but because they took place
near an airport or a private airport, I've had to discount them. And
and and my state director here said, well, you don't think it happens,
so I think it probably happened to right, It probably is the way
she described it, But because of mitigating circumstances, I can't say that this
was a genuine UFO she saw. It could have been other things. And
whenever it could have been other things, we just say it was and then
we don't count it as in the UFO count. You know, the landing
lights, you know they're coming at you, their big bright lights. You
kind of have to discount for the most part, unless there's really strange activity.
When you're seeing a light in the sky, A lot of times it's
just the lightness guy, you know. So, well, that's true,
and it could be a satellite going our head. It could be a plane
in the distance, could be a helicopter, could be a drone. These
days, right, yeah, we have we have a lot to a lot
to look out for, you know, Uh, Chinese lanterns, you name
it, where you know you can be fooled real quickly. And U and
drones. I don't think they're going to be going away. Um, so
we really have to keep in mind when we see these things. Now,
I'm sure you've been following, you know what's happened since I know you really
didn't hear much of the conversation with Aljandro and I. But what's been happening
since the Pentagon admitted they we're looking into the UFO field, our UFOs in
general, or some type of aerial threats And it's been an easier topic to
talk about. What's your what's your thoughts on that? Well? I think
it's the current flavor of the month kind of thing. I think it's compelling.
I think it again, we don't know a lot about it, but
what we do know tells us some of what we don't know. We know
that the Navy was highly interested in the Nimits incidents. Of course, we
do know that the commander of the six jets that when the squadron said,
this thing looked like a giant Dick tac, had no apparent proposal system or
wings. It was like a white, featureless cylinder, but it could outmaneuver
his jets if they were standing still. According to him, you do have
some ground to air radar, just as we did in Belgium. These things
are real. I mean, they're not our imagination. They're not geese flying
across the sky or someone misinterpreting something. These are trained observers. These people
do this for a living. We have policemen, we have military personnel.
We have pilots, both commercial and military, who have all claimed on numerous
occasions they have spotted UFOs, with witnesses to go with it, including some
of the control towers seeing them on radar as well. We have people have
died from encounters with the UFOs, So if their imagination, how the heck
does that happen. We've had people injured in the hundreds, We've had property
damage. This has been going on at least since nineteen forty seven, and
if you look at it historically, apparently it's been going on for centuries.
Can you tell us about any of the cases that you personally investigated that you
thought were compelling. Well, actually we're not really. You know, we
are supposed to keep it as anonymous as possible, but they ranged from the
mundane where someone saw a strange light in the sky and took a picture of
it, to where they saw silvery objects that danced about the sky and had
some video. I've had other cases where one woman says she wrestled with a
gray alien in her bedroom. I never saw uphone anything, but this thing
was attacking her and she tried to choke it to death. Wow, and
she was a minister. But I mean, you get you run the whole
gam and of course you have to sit there and you have to listen with
an open mind because you don't know what anything and everything is capable of.
So I try to keep an open mind and listen to it. But then
I kind of have to discount it because number one, it wasn't a u
of O sighting, and number two, the woman's didn't strike me as incredibly
stable, and so therefore when I wrote it up, I said, not
a sighting. So that must be kind of difficult to make a judgment,
and I don't like doing it. I'd rather just have reported the information without
having to do that final step of what I have determined whether it is because
that determine is where it goes in the database or not as a genuine sighting.
And I don't know this woman. Who am I to make a judgment
calling er after just one meeting and a couple of phone conversations, Right,
how many would you say, if you could kind of figure a calculation for
the things that you've looked at, end up being's what they call an unknown
and move on. Well, quite a few are unknown. I would say
that only about something. They're saying five percent on average, but mine was
more like seven or eight percent. Seemed to have been genuine UFO settings that
people were reporting. There was enough evidence to suppose that they were seeing something
that wasn't. Everything else had been discounted that it could be. I mean,
when we do an investigation, we go out to the actual site,
We walked the grounds, We look for any physical evidence on the ground.
We check all the weather records for that day. We know if it was
cloudy, how windy it was. We check air flight patterns out of the
local airports, international airports to make sure it couldn't have been anything at that
at that given time and moment. So we're really pretty thorough about it when
we do these investigations, right, Right, And I think there's there's now
some apps too that help, you know, an iPhone apps that actually help
out with investigation. From what I understand, yes, there are. We
prefer that the observer of the incident doesn't use those. We prefer to get
the unsullied, if you know what I mean. Not having spoken to many
people first, because every time a person tells this story embellishes. One woman
who saw UFO started off by saying she saw it for about five or six
seconds. By the end of our conversation, she'd seen it for approximately four
minutes. So you know, things changed as they tell it to you,
right right. And you know you mentioned your brother and his friend had missing
time, and that's that's such a bizarre thing. That's almost like someone could
do a show on that alone. That was critical. That was critical to
my getting involved in all of this. That was the I always had a
strong interest in the paranormal, had already been reading and researching it. But
when my brother finally told me this twenty years or so or more after it
happened, I was absolutely flabbergasted. Because my brother was unimpeachable. My brother
is no liar, and neither was his friend John. I'd grown up with
them nearby. You know, I knew them, and I mean John,
and I knew my brother Mike, and I know for a fact that he
wasn't lying. In fact, he just was watching television one night and the
memory came back of seeing a red light in the sky over the desert when
he and his friend John were camping out. It was about midnight, and
he said, you know, that looks like it came down near us.
Should we go investigate? And John goes, yeah, let's do it.
That's the last thing they remember. The next thing they remember is striking camp
in the morning and John's father picking him up at about nine am and they
left. Now, they never spoke about it at all, never said hey,
how about that red light? Nothing, absolutely nothing. They had no
memory of it. And so my brother moved to Vegas, John stayed in
San Diego, and then my brother remembered it. He called Johnny said do
you remember this? And John goes, well, I do. Now I
hadn't kill this moment. He said, well what happened to us? And
John said I don't know. But they were so compelling for them that John
sold his house in San Diego, took his wife and kids and moved to
Las Vegas to be near my brother who was living near Nella's Air Force Base
in Ant Area fifty one at the time, and they spent years researching this
and getting heavily involved into it, and then abruptly my brother dropped it all.
Perhaps he wanted nothing. I want to do with it. Do you
know why? Did he say? Why? Yeah? Well, no,
well, yes and no. It was pretty obvious he was scared that he
felt it was going in a very negative, dark direction. So I asked
him, I said, Mike, on your deathbed, if you could have
the answers, would you like to know? And he said it depends.
And I said on what, whether the answers are good or bad? He
said yes exactly. I said, so you'd rather die unknowing? He said
yes, I just want to have what's left in my life and peace and
quiet, and I don't want to know any more about any of this.
I totally get that. Yeah, I mean you can imagine that, you
know, if you'd been through what he'd been through. So, I mean,
he did have an implant that was gouged out, he did have a
scoop mark. I have no doubt that he was probably abducted, although he
will not say that, and I will not say that because we do not
have evidence, and I'm an evidence kind of guy. Okay, well we
have. Let's say we have about five minutes left. So I did want
to talk. I listened to you on another show and I wanted to.
I don't want to say I want to debate you, but I just wanted
to. I wanted to challenge you a little bit on you. I think
you've written a couple of books about you have a theory that the moon may
be hollow, so I wanted to wanted to talk a little bit about that
in the five or so minutes we have for sure break well. It started
when I was on Coast to Coast radio. George Nor asked me when I
thought of the hollow moon theory, and I laughed and said, not much.
I think it's silly. The moon's there, it's in the sky,
pulls our ties. It's not all. And then I started investigating. It
just tweaked my imagination and the evidence I found, although not conclusive, is
certainly intriguing. I mean, we have no good theory for the origin of
the moon, not even now with the impact theory there's a lot of things
wrong with it. There's a lot of oddities about the Moon. It's density,
it's too low for its size, and yet the rock seems to be
made of the same material as our rock here on Earth. Here it's mantle.
So if it's the same material and the Moon's as large as it is,
where's the missing mass. It has to be taken from somewhere. So
it's either got large caverns or it's hollow. Several scientists, including a couple
of NASA I've quoted them in my book, literally say it's easier to explain
the non existence of the Moon than to explain its existence. And another one
said the way the size and graps left on the moon recorded moonquakes seem to
show that the Moon either had a very strange core that doesn't allow seismic waves
to travel through it, which is very bizarre, or it's hollow. It
raises the frightening question that the Moon may be hollow. And this goes on
and on, and then it was too Soviet scientists who came out with the
idea of the spaceship moon theory in the seventies. They were members of the
Soviet Science Academy. So there's big names involved here, McDonald of NASA and
all sorts of others. Vassin Scherbakoff, all these people have talked about this
and delved into it, and they've come up with some very reasonable scenarios.
The big craters on the Moon are shallow, the small ones are deep,
as if there was an inner shell that was making the big meteorites bounce back
up. The layers on the Moon the top three layers of soil and reverse
order, with the densest being on top and the lightest being three layers down.
We can't come that would that have anything to do with atmosphere or gravity.
That would have to do anything that has gravity will have the densest material
in the center and the lightest material on the surface. Throw a bunch of
different types of soil into a glass of water, shake it up really good
and let it settle. You'll see all sorts of layers. The densists are
always at the bottom. But I'm thinking up a helium three, which I
know there's a lot of on the Moon. Isn't that like more toward the
surface, and then that like a lider material it's on the Moon and it
is helium three, and it is a lighter material, and it is not
atmospheric. It's not gaseous in nature. But so there is no atmosphere in
the Moon to speak of. In fact, when the Apollo Moon landed and
jettisoned its tanks, it actually incrementally gave the Moon a tiny bit of atmosphere.
It was big at the time because it's so close to a vacuum.
But we also have strange lights on the Moon. We over a NASA commissioned
report over the last five hundred years and it's still going on right now.
We have seen streaks, flashes, beacons, tracks, volcanoes aren't volcanoes on
the Moon. We have seen mists, we have seen fogs. We've seen
strange lights. We've seen blinking lights, and a lot of blue lights.
There's one crater that is so known for this phenomena, that Aristarchus Crater that
is referred to by astronomers, not me, astronomers as the Blue Gem.
Now, if the Moon's a dead world with no atmosphere, what is all
this stuff are what are they trying to explain these phenomena that you just mentioned.
Well, yeah, well, standard scientists are the problem. Is.
There's so many different types of these. They call it transient lunar lunar phenomena.
And the report by now so it was commissioned by NASA, and it's
online. You can take a look up at it, or get my book.
It's at the back of my book. But no one explanation can explain
all of it. For instance, about a century ago and volcanoes, what
they thought were volcanos are noticed on the Moon. These were just quick blips
and gone. These went on for months, some things went on for years.
They call it transient lunar phenomenon, and a lot of it is very
transient, but some of it sticks around enough for other observatories to observe it
easily and over long periods of time. But the Moon has no volcano.
So what were they seeing? Well, they're seeing lightning on the Moon,
but there's no atmosphere. How do you get lightning and avoid they're seeing tracks
and streaks and beacons and these flashes, and they're in different locations, but
principally around two craters, Plato and Aristarchis. I believe that they're two.
How do we account for neptunium two thirty seven being on the Moon. It's
half life is less than two and a half million years. There should be
no neptunium two thirty seven on the Moon. There's none on the Earth.
We have to create it artificially. How has that created naturally? It's just
because I don't know. I don't even know what it is so well,
it's a highly radioactive substance and it has a very short half life of just
under two and a half million years, relatively speaking, short half life.
It can occur naturally, and it probably was on Earth at the beginning.
But because the Earth is four and a half billion years old and a half
life of neptunium two thirty seven, it's only two and a half million years,
it long since ceased to exist on the Earth. If the Moon is
that old, it should have ceased utterly to exist on the Moon too,
But it's there. We also have titanium on the Moon in large amounts than
on the Earth. We have these large maria, these flat gray areas that
they believe our lava flows. They're only on the side facing the Earth.
On the far side of the Moon. There aren't any there are. Let
me ask this, going back to the radioactive material, does an atmosphere play
any aspect and a half life on a material like that not normally, No,
it's it's a constant rate of decay, like uranium, utwo thirty eight,
polonium, any of this stuff. I mean, any of the radioactive
isotopes at the top end of the periodic table, And the higher you go,
the shorter the half lives are. Some of them are mere split seconds
before their decay. I mean uranium YouTube thirty eight has a half life of
four and a half billion years, so we only have half left of what
the Earth started out with four and a half billion years ago. The rest
of it eventually degraded into some other element. I believe it was lead,
but so and that's odd because lead can stop radiation. Isn't funny something should
decay from a radioactive state to something that blocks radiation. Isn't that strange?
Yeah, if it is lead, I'm not I think I remember reading it
does decay eventually into lead, but I'm not positive about that. All right,
that's it for the free part of the show. Thank you so much
for listening. Anyone can sign up for the full hour and forty five minute
shows. All you have to do is go over to podcast ufo dot com.
Don't forget to check out our website as I just mentioned. Also,
there's a blog over there called Rockin' UFOs. Thanks so much for listening.
We'll be back next week with Dan Wright about CIA UFO papers. All right,
everyone, see you next week, and remember to keep your eyes to
the sky.