WEBVTT

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Everyone, This is Jeff Gersman from
giant bomb dot com and you're listening to

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our GDC podcast. This is the
second of our two podcasts recorded at Game

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Developers Conference twenty eleven, back in
our office, back in the bar,

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and this was originally recorded on Thursday, that's March third, the second,

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March second, twenty eleven, and
again we packed the bar full of guests,

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probably even more than we had the
night before, more people off Mike

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than they were on, I think, and he'll probably hear a fair amount

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of that as the night goes on. This is a noisy, noisy podcast.

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I spent some time cleaning it up, eqing it, compressing it,

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trying to gate out some of that
background noise, but I think you'll hear

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as the time wears on, as
we get closer and closer to the end,

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the guys in the background get more
and more restless and threatened to overtake

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the actual discussion, So expect some
of that and it'll get a little a

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little noisy. Probably hard to make
out some of that stuff, but there

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you have it. It was a
very rowdy evening and I hope you enjoy

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it. Hereat Hey, what's up? Everybody. It's Jeff Gersman. This

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is Giant Bombs g DC Podcast,
Day two of two. Let's let's get

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that right out of the way here. This will be our final g DC

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podcast. We've got a new cavalcade
of superstars here. And while we start

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all the wait at the what you
introduce yourself? Say your name? What

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you do? My name is Jeremi
s Alaska. I'm the CEO and creer

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director of fisel Awesome. Yes,
I've been wondering how to pronounce that.

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My name is Ben Gilbert and I
am a writer for Joyce Dick dot Com.

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Yeah you are. Yeah, I'm
Brad and I work here. I'm

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John Bellamy or Cowboy as many people
know. I'm programmer at Naughty Dog Adam

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Boys, president of Beefy Media.
Oh president, Yes, and ceo.

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Do you miss your name of the
credits? Like nine times, I put

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myself first ahead of anyone else,
like somebody Wade. You don't know what

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Jack? Okay, I would do
great? Next. Uh, Hey,

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my name is John and I worked
for Disney's Funny. I'm John. I'm

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a cabin barn. I'm also John
and I and I worked for Harmonics.

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Yeah, okay, I'm Jeff I
work here. Yeah, sweet in this

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base. By the way, you
missed it. I set it up,

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tee, these things up. So
we're back, another day of GDC,

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another set of guests here. You
know the thing that we keep asking people

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we're out the fields. You know, what are people really getting out of

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GDC this year? You know,
Jeremiah, you've been showing off a game

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most of the time. Right,
Yeah, that's right. Hybrid our new

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title, which is a shooter,
and people are really kind of weirded out

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that it's a shooter because you know, we know for scribble knots isn't do

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you hit why and then have to
enter words like head shot exactly head shot.

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We're not doing it there. A
lot of people don't know there's more

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guns and scribt nuts than there is
a Hybrid, Right, it's true.

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So have you have you been basically
like up in a sweet kind of down

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again? It's kind of This is
actually the first DDC I haven't seen a

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panel. I've been literally in a
room, locked and changed to death.

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It's it's been kind of the same
for us. I haven't gotten to see

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any panels at all. Yeah,
it sucks, but it's good. It's

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good. Yeah. I mean it's
for hybrid, so it's we're cool,

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that's cool, and hybrid songs like
it's really cool. Yeah, yeah,

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yeah, Hybrid. It's it's a
different kind of shoot. It's a third

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person shooter, but instead of actually
controlling where you move, you have this

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thing called combat focused movement. That's
our that's our buzzword for tonight. Remember

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that sponsored by the letter A.
No, I don't know. And the

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whole point is that it's like,
when we kind of worked on it,

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we were kind of looking at how
real soldiers work, right, and we're

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saying, you know, real soldiers
really don't do the whole circle straight for

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the shotgun, you know, the
way that we do a multiplayer and so

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we're like, well, how can
we kind of mimic that and uh,

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you know, do that in our
game in a multiplayer mode. So we

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basically said, well, screw just
moving with the left stick, let's just

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actually just select cover and press A, just go there, right, So

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that's kind of how it is.
It's kind of kind of point and click

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thing almost, and you basically like
just flick the stick, press A and

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you go there. And so while
you're going there, you can actually you

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know, look in any direction and
still shooting stuff. That's why it's called

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combat focus movement because you're focused on
the combat. So a lot of people,

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you know, I mean, this
is the first time we've showing it

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off, and a lot of people
are really digging it. So they're like

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at first, before they're like,
really, you know, you got to

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fist sale on my generic shooter.
I don't. I don't get this,

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you know what I mean, And
and and after they're like, oh,

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okay, this, this is this
is innovative and different. It's very different

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because you know, I mean a
lot of people are like, oh,

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I've seen a million shooters. Yeah
exact. I mean when you would come

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out and said ahead of time like
yeah, we're working on this game hybrid

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and it's a shooter, I think
a lot of people were like, I

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do I draw the guns? There's
myself like, like where does they say?

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We're saying it's innovator and I do, like connect, I don't you

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know, I'm like no, no, no, if we can be innovative,

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you can. You know. It's
like why why challenge? Why not

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challenge you know, the you know, the tropes that are in video games,

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like and I say, well,
why does why do you have to

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left stick the move? Like?
Why who says you have to? Just

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because you've never tried it before doesn't
mean it's not awesome. Right. I

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played the game, and I can
vouch for everything that he's saying, But

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there was definitely a record scrash moment
when he was demoing it of like,

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wait a minute, you don't move
your guy? But yeah, I mean

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you sit down and play it.
And it's very intuitive because you guys have

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given a nice snappiness to the contents. Cool. How about you, Ben,

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you've been on on the panel beat, like looking at stuff all all

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day or are you in sweet seeing
actual games? Yes, yes to both

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of those things. All of those
things are happening. So what's what's been

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the standout stuff for you the past
few days? Well, everything was was

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pretty good. I like Hybrid a
lot. I saw that, and uh,

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I think the biggest standout was probably
where John and I just came from.

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Right before this was was Sweary's Deadly
Premonition panel, Yeah, which was

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just batshit crazy like you would expect, totally. I think John's got a

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pretty great story for you coming up
about the panel cool. I think Patrick

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over there and just walked in.
Was that the panel as well? Which

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I didn't get the email in time, but we got an email from Tad

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who's been translating for for swear around
the trip. He wanted to borrow the

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deer Head with the he wanted to
borrow Lucadier here to have a panel does

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not leave the premacy. Yeah,
luc and he gets violent when you get

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him out there, It gets it
gets bad. It would have fitted.

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It would have fitted perfectly with that
panel, though with a video came post

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war. He did end up taking
some pictures with it and posting those,

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which which was pretty cool. Brad, I was with you most of the

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day. What what part of hanging
out with me was the coolest? Sandwiches

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was pretty good in those chairs for
another like hour and a half. That

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was probably the best. I can't
I can't remember again, Like just like

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last night, what we can talk
about because everything's got some kind of bargo

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on it, but we can talk
about all that same stuff from Batman that

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we've already seen. It's kind of
Batman about podcast. Last week, Batman

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continues to look good and Yeah,
there's like ten seconds at the end of

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it in the show that was different, and that's the part we can't talk

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about until next week some time.
But we shot an interview for that and

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that'll be up. Uh. Played
some Mortal Kombat. I continue to enjoy

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playing Mortal Kombat. I know you're
fucking shocked drop across. It's just yeah,

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what else that's Uh, that was
a full day. Yeah, so

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you can see why we're exhausted.
It's been rough. It's been sandwich.

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It wasn't really spoiled. It was
bacon on it and there was something else

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on it and I said no onion
relish, but then you know, then

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they added LSD instead. Yeah,
so you can see three giant mom stars.

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Yes, Cowboy, how's your day
been? Now? You gave your

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talk today? Right? Yeah.
I flew up to just talk shop gave

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a programming talk on our animation system. Were on charted one and charted two,

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So that was really cool. Uh, just got to sort of really

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open about like the technology we do. We're not really secretive about any particular

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approach we have, and so we
were afforded these nice opportunities just to come

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up and just like no, just
totally how we do it? Like what

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do you think? Like what do
you feedback? So the best part of

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my day is right after the talking, everyone comes out. They have questions

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like what about this and how do
you do this? And like will we

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do this? And just being able
to meet talk those other developers. It's

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great. Do you find it?
Was it a lot of developers from like

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other established companies or like students looking
to get in. It was like a

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fifty fifty split, like an even
mix of like you know, I like

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I got to talk to a guy
who worked at HAVOC and then I talked

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to like like a student who just
wanted to break in, and they you

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know, both had questions. Both
wanted them to know, like you know,

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more detail about what. So how
bad resumes did you get? At

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the end of the right to be
fair, I solicited resumes? We are

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hiring? Okay, So like I
got like all cards from everybody. It's

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like feel free, Like like I
said, if people want to know,

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like you know, well, do
you have like a job for like you

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know this kind of position or like
like I do this kind of program?

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Do you have anything? And really
what now you aall cares about it is

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like, just step up to the
plate if you feel you're ready for it.

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If we like you, we will
find a job for you. And

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so that makes working at the company
really cool because we really like all our

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programmers, and if we like you, we'll make room. I'm really good

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at smiling into a camera at eating
sandwiches. Is that I that we got

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a sandwich character with your name on
it? Sandwich? I imagine when you

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know you're you're revealing details about the
process of a game like Uncharted or chart

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to like, people probably come out
of the woodwork are like, okay,

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wait a minute. That game was
a huge seller, like was reviewed really

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well and was awesome. Yes,
so I'm going to find out everything I

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possible. I don't. I think
last year we even went to some of

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the postmortem talks about some of that
stuff and had that kind of glazed over

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like this is way too technical for
many lines of code and any of your

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slides or I had a LISP code
in my slides, and I think that

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might have scared some people off.
But we gotta get to get the guys

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that shouldn't be there out early on, right, you put those up front

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the city The other thing is like
when we start talking about like our technical

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processes and our technical implementations, people
find that they're not actually that complicated.

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They're not they're not we're not doing
anything that's special or that really crazier off

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the beat were really I think sets
us apart when we go to make a

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game like I Charged Too. It's
just the fact that we're willing to take

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a technical risk and like if we
think a system will be cool, we'll

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go ahead and implement. So we
just do more. We do more implementations.

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And I don't even know what lifts
code is, so don't you guys

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language, But I don't know's that's
incredible, very real, nicely and you

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know, keep the hood. Seventy
eight thousand people like life. That's what

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I want to say. What's the
problem? List? List? What exactly?

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Thank you for saying it for Adam. What have you been doing for

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the past two days other than drinking
in the lobby abomself. That's kind of

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what we do now. No,
it's been different for me because it's the

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first time in the last three years. Apparently I did find out that when

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you don't work at a publisher,
it's very difficult to get a talk approved.

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So the talk that we submitted,
I mean the talk that we did

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submit, the subject wasn't Johnny the
story hours. Yeah, you had me

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on that. Yeah, that's gonna
get christ They want to know all the

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crazy stories, the backstories, and
that got tonight. I don't know he

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would be no takeaways. No,
he was just a slide of him sweating

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or shirtless. Bad thank you.
No, it's been good. A lot

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of meetings this time. So at
Dice three weeks back, we met mostly

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with publishers. We've got a couple
of games in development right now that we'd

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love to talk about camp right now. So this time was more talking with

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the different external outsource partners and developers
because we do working with a bunch of

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ips. We're looking to make games, and so she can't shop with everyone.

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I mean, it's been a while
since I was a cap competing with

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developers, so it's great to see
what everyone's been doing, especially with all

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the mobile and social stuff going on. So, and my voice is almost

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shot. You can total they talk
about this stuff, they'll they'll edit it

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out. Just yeah, I mean
I can just talk about it. Yeah,

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that's Jeff. Jeff shadowy for day
life. Why don't you explain?

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The tron glove that everyone finds so
intimidating was busted out last night in our

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suite and it helps me consume my
alcohol. The colder it is, the

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better, the more power I get. And it looks really effeminate too.

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It really just transports you right to
the grid. Yeah, speaking of the

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grid, Johnny, Oh shit,
what have you been up to months?

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First of all, let's do an
employment check up. Yes, I'm so

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funny actually asking us. It was
so funny because that Dizzy people. People

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were like, it's so funny,
Like there's this message about how propaganda closed

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down, and the comments are like, it's just John still have a job.

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So yes I do, fortunately,
but I imagine all the guys are

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propaganda were stoked. No, those
guys all my buddy. So all right,

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so what have I been doing here? I came into town and my

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initial intention was just to you know, hang out and see all my old

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friends and everything. That sounds like
and you the company's paying for you coming

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now, see Adam Needly has satias, right, that's that's the problem.

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So right, So Dizzy was like
I went and talk to Seropia. I'm

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like, hey, so GBC,
what are we doing? And he's like,

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I think that ship has sailed,
right, Like okay, right exactly.

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So I paid for my I paid
for my own way out here,

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and then once all these media requests
are coming in, I was like,

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so I'm getting medi request, you
know what am I gonna do? And

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they're like's expense? That's fine.
So anyway, that wasn't very funny.

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But as I as I move on
and talk about what I've seen, I

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was as you guys seen this,
and I was just what your trying to?

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Yeah, exactly right, a little
bit of my talent dramatics to it.

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The I was on the phone actually
with Craig was one of our good

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friends, and I'm walking around the
show floor and all of a sudden,

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I'm like what is this? And
I'm like, Craig, I have to

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call you back right down. And
it's like, someone has Jerry Rice Dog

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game. What have you guys seen? It's got booth, it's got both,

228
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it's got booth and so it's Jerry
Rice, but the logo for it

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is like Jerry Rice and the Golden
Retriever. Where is that going to a

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Golden retriever in here. So that
is my you know, game of the

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show right there, I mean,
amazing. Take the microphone away from I

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saw a guy talking about dog football. Yeah, so I went to I

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went to two talks today. I
went to Cliff Cliffy Be's talk, which

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was interesting. He was entertaining as
always. And the guy who is apparently

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behind Jerry Rice Football. I don't
know, is that the name with the

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game or is that just a description. It's a working title, Jerry Rice

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Football twenty two eleven. It's gonna
be huge. Uh the is he?

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Uh? He got up and asked
a question a Cliff. At the end

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of Cliffs talk, which was his
talk, was fine. He was basically

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talking about owning your IP and being
a power creative, which sounded a little

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bit too much like power bottomed to
take it over and over. I've always

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wanted to be a power creative and
really get the hips behind. But he

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he But it was actually a really
good talk, and he made a lot

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of sense about a lot of things. He had, you know, his

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quips and his press quotes. But
then this guy came and asked him,

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you know, so we've he started
talking about this company that he founded,

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and how he really agreed with him
about owning his IP, and he went

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he sort of I think he got
a little nervous to start of talking,

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sort of a long, forced question
coming out of the mouth and hopefully question,

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and then at someone he switched over
to just describing his game, which

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was I believe Jared Wright. It
was it was no one's ever taken a

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chance on doc's playing football before,
believe that. And he said, you

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know, no publisher wanted to give
us money up front, so we raised

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own money and made the game,
and now publishers interested, and it was

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like, actually a really nice story
and a really nice question for me.

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But in the middle of it just
goes, no publishers wanted to take a

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chance on dogs playing football, because
he just goes, I can sort of

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under stay in that. But the
guy was super Sweeteney, and there were

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a bunch of really good questions,
and then we one saw Sweari's talk from

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Deadly Premonition, which was the most
surreal, bizarre post more I don't even

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really know what was going on.
He brought a coffee pot and had it

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brewing coffee on the table of the
conversation. And occasionally pausitive look into his

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coffee like he was waiting for it
to tell him what to do next.

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Well, so that's from the game. Yeah, no, it was.

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Yes. So the two best stories
from that though, I believe, are

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one he said. Uh. Someone
asked the question, so, if you

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had in the middle of making Deadly
Premission one, if you had a million

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dollars all the time, you had
to add one more, one more,

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two more features, what would you
do? And he said without missing a

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beat in one in Japanese, and
then the translator said, uh, I

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would have had the hero ride a
bicycle, of course, and I would

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have had him able to wear cologne
naturally. I mean that's really all that

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game needed. Yeah, and then
a perfect But since he said two things,

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he sort of like let it hang
there, and everyone was like,

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is there gonna be like or at
a level? Or I would have had

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key way or maybe polished. What
the hell is going on. I'm more

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into the idea that it would take
a million dollars and time celevision, and

278
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it's not easy to do there.
With the game Skunk, that's happens it

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00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:25.039
looks like a pencil sharpener. But
then there's a hole in the front that

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just emits misty exactly, and there
are flavor cartridges in it, then will

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00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:37.960
spit out rose scent or nobody should
be interested because if somebody hacks that Pirates

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makes Pirates smells, yeh, smell. I accidentally bought an unlicensed game.

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It's not like it's one of the
game junior game Sharpen. It might break

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your nest. It's like I bought
an unlicensed smell cartridge and I can't see

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the Yeah, uh, the the
others modern warfare. He's going to support

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00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:07.079
it, and that'll be exactly up. It's gonna totally get you. The

287
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:10.720
other sweary slide that I thought was
pretty pretty amazing was that he was talking

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about how he wants to make his
character is good but also have a little

289
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bit of a downside to them,
and this title and so he had like

290
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this girl is like a mother who
would care for you, but also she

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can't cook. That was like one
of his examples. Uh, And he

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of the slide was was you take
the good, you take the bad?

293
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And I immediately turned to Abby Abby
who was his me, and went,

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is he gonna talk about the facts
of life? And then that was a

295
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:38.160
good beat. He said, it's
like poisons. You know, every rose

296
00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:47.759
has its thorn and every cowboy has
watched the Facts of Life and that pretty

297
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:52.039
much exactly. And it was and
the whole and everyone of the panels started

298
00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:53.640
turning around looking at each other,
was like, I did he I guess

299
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that's he meant it. He was
talking about Tooty. I mean, like

300
00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.400
guess, and I'm guessing that his
transitor might be the greatest chiefe on Earth

301
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and swear he's just like super serious
the whole time. Checker like actually like

302
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.000
a ben Jo you know there just
double checker. He was. He was

303
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giving sales figures right, and then
translation has got completely lost. Yeah,

304
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but everyone a big smile on their
face, and that dude's a totally badass.

305
00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:18.480
So it was. It was a
fun, fun talk. Yeah.

306
00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:26.079
Is that? I mean that seems
like like a great example of game design

307
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.119
that can only happen in Japan.
It seems like where you're you're going to

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00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:33.079
deliberately make something totally crazy and and
and find a way to make it work.

309
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What do you guys think about Japanese
game development these days? You know,

310
00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:41.000
as kind of people that are that
are making here's a loaded question.

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Quarter of miles. I think,
I think we all grew up in Japanese

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00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:51.000
game but some people did PC.
Right, Oh yeah, yeah, that's

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true. That's true. I guess
I was kind of straddling the line even

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then. But it seems like,
you know, if you if you look

315
00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.759
at the popular games here in North
America now, it almost seems like the

316
00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:04.000
PC developers won in a sense where
it's you're seeing a lot of that that

317
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:10.039
Western design is really kind of risen
and and taking control, where all these

318
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PC developers that are now making you
know, games on Xbox and consoles and

319
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:15.200
stuff like that, are are the
games that people want to play, whereas

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Japanese design feels often a step behind, especially when when they're trying to do

321
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:23.079
shooters and things like that, where
it just there, it seems like there's

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usually something missing. All right,
So I'm gonna argue with you real quick

323
00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:30.279
and just tell you that I didn't
think Vanquish was a step behind. Actually

324
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think that that was really dope and
that amazing example. Amazing You can you

325
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:37.519
can't get discounting Nintendo either, right, I Mean, they're Japanese, but

326
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:42.079
nobody they're just you know, so
dominant, but at the same time it's

327
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.119
like they're super dominant, but in
a sense they're kind of just off doing

328
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.559
their own things, you know,
and Nintendo is always going to beat Nintendo

329
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regardless of what country they're building games
in and all that stuff. That.

330
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.200
Yeah, I guess I'm we're talking
about. You know, it's like Feel

331
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Plus is putting out third person shooters
that are ridiculous. You're like, why

332
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isn't you know one thing, I
mean, the budgets. There's a huge

333
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:06.799
discrepancy between the budgets of Western games
of Japanese games, you know, like

334
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:11.920
Triple budgets thirty million dollars twenty million
dollars Japanese budgets Triple I think Vengas was

335
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.680
like five million or something like that. I don't call I'm not one hundred

336
00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.960
percent sure, but I think it's
around there right now. I don't know

337
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.200
what guys vengus. I just I
think I heard that publicly, so I

338
00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:25.799
can avoud it firm. I mean, working for Capcom that the internal budgets

339
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:30.880
were from Japanese internal development was in
line with the US ones for Triple games.

340
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.880
I mean, they were in the
tens of millions of dollars for sure,

341
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.960
but I mean, you know when
they go when they I mean,

342
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.279
the other thing about it is the
salaries of Japanese are very low. Yeah,

343
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.759
when especially when the independent, I
think there's a lot of overhead with

344
00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:45.680
the internal stuff. So I would
imagine with an independent developer probably Well,

345
00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.359
those were world those were intended to
be worldwide titles, not games that were

346
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made for Japan. And then people
on the team, which is a different

347
00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:53.680
thing than again, like I mean, I think that the games I end

348
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:56.519
up joining the most, they're coming
from there. It seemed like the games

349
00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:02.519
that were maybe more intended for Japanese
audience and brought over because it really captures

350
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:06.400
a very different feel and a very
different flavor, whereas when you know,

351
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:11.640
if it's trying to kind of mimic
games that are that are big here already.

352
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:12.759
Yeah, I want Japan to be
Japan. I want jaman to be

353
00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:18.680
fucking crazy. Yeah. Yeah,
that's why I want that to be a

354
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.640
thing that can be huge like it
was, and I want their industry to

355
00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:23.920
be able to support that. Because
I've read interviews where like the the the

356
00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:26.200
sort of culture of you pick a
company, you work there for life in

357
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:30.680
Japan, it's sort of bogging down
the whole process. There's this great interview

358
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.440
with a development guy at Capcom who
was complaining about this, I got all

359
00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.200
these great ideas, but you're punished
for taking risks. Right that said,

360
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.200
well, that's a guy I want
to make a game with. I want

361
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:41.880
to see like what kind of crazy
stuff he's got, and I would love

362
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.119
to like just make a game with
him, and and and to that point,

363
00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:49.640
actually just found out the one big
Japanese publisher. They basically because they're

364
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.599
worried about people leaving, especially now, because the West and the East are

365
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:56.720
very different when it comes to you
know, over here, we stayed with

366
00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:59.519
companies for two to five years and
then we move on. Right is Japan,

367
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.599
Right, it's a lifetime thing.
So it's so paranoid about people leaving

368
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:06.319
that they force everyone in Japan to
change your email address every six months.

369
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:08.359
They do an out automated system where
they give them a new email address so

370
00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:14.079
they can be plucked from the which
my I mean, Western philosophy just says,

371
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:17.519
why don't you just make the working, you know, make it better

372
00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:26.160
to work there, make the it
wos no one's attached, But what about

373
00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:27.480
level five. I mean they're they're
great to do it, and they've made

374
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:33.880
it over to the West pretty well
with LA still retain their identity identifiable.

375
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.119
Yeah, when we try the West, when we try to emulate the Japanese,

376
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:40.359
we just always get it off,
kind of like when they try to

377
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.279
emulate Western development, they get it
a bit off. And you want that

378
00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:45.920
there, I mean it's a culture
thing, yeah, and you you want

379
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.720
that that ofteness feels genuine and from
working cap On for three years and meeting

380
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.680
Infusan and Takuchis on those guys,
I mean you just feel that they're sometimes

381
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.440
they don't care. They want to
be a reb and they want to make

382
00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:59.359
their own things and it just feels
comfortable in a weird way. That's comfort.

383
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.079
It's like a je computation that just
makes your species better as a whole.

384
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:08.720
Right, So, do you guys
feel that there are ways to bridge

385
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:15.480
that gap? You know, by
having developers overseas working with and immutations and

386
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:18.400
yeah, like like actually getting kind
of a best of both worlds or are

387
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:23.400
they completely incompatible. I mean,
again, back from my experience of Capcom,

388
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:27.599
I think there's certain developers out there
that get the Japanese sort of tendencies.

389
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:30.079
I think Bluecastle did a great job
with that RUS two. I played

390
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:33.240
through that. I'm like, this
feels like our guys in Capcom Japan made

391
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.559
it. Yeah, it really did. It was kind of like Broken in

392
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:44.759
the same Canada and except for the
access to food right up on the roof.

393
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:47.839
But I think other teams though that
don't get it. I think that's

394
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:49.480
when you have a big clash and
it just can't work. So we actually

395
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.880
worked with Konami doing Scribble Nuts over
in Japan, so that did really well

396
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.640
and a lot of Japanese people really
loved it. For me too, gave

397
00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:00.640
us thirty eight out of forty ors. I'm like, yeah, a lot

398
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:04.200
of people really were and said snake
made it into the right old snake and

399
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:08.240
a bunch of stuff. That's pretty
all. That was pol Actually that was

400
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:15.160
And the producer actually was why am
I blanking the Castlevania guy like you got

401
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.960
you got? And he was the
product so he was like, dude,

402
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.319
I love in the West, like
I want to get this game over in

403
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:23.599
Japan. So and he was a
producer on the title it was, so

404
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:29.000
then does that mean it has like
better like hat and whip technology the hat.

405
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:30.839
I mean that was the most important
part. He was like, gotta

406
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.640
get that right, gotta get how
is that? How is the localization process

407
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.440
of a game? Like I didn't
work on that side. It was just

408
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:44.440
like can you enter these characters?
Absolutely both Actually was as an English teaching

409
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:49.680
tool that was like a big thing
with one bill words that would actually make

410
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:52.640
a lot of sense though, I
mean, yeah, no, totally.

411
00:26:52.640 --> 00:27:00.559
It's like it's sweets, yeah,
ghosts. You know, so what everyone

412
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:04.759
doesn't understand, that's that's watching right
now. Said, we had been you

413
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:11.599
know, here since about six o'clock
and then we told multiple stories and now

414
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.319
here we are and everyone's been prefaced
with all the retarded stories that we've done

415
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:25.960
prior to retarded Yeah I did.
Oh anyway, anyway makes a lot of

416
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:37.200
sense. Well, no jokes Seattle, all right, guys, no jokes

417
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.960
about me. I'm from Seattle.
That's why let's where you would now,

418
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:47.480
Jeremiah know, your time here as
short. You've got to get back out

419
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:52.000
onto the scene. But thanks for
having me. Yeahs leaving right now?

420
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.319
Are you? I can we can
we not talk a little bit about your

421
00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:59.920
games and everything that you've done.
But what's what's it like working on a

422
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.160
downloadiple game was supposed to handheld game? Is It's interesting. A lot of

423
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.599
people assume that hybrid is harder to
make than scriptnots, but it's exactly the

424
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:08.440
opposite because script n we had no
idea what we're doing right, where it's

425
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:11.480
like, well, let's look at
other games and see how they did it.

426
00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:12.759
We did it that way right with
a shooter, right, Like,

427
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:15.720
there's so many you know, kind
of benchmarks you can go after, right,

428
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.079
and the camera and the field of
shooting and stuff. So there's a

429
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:21.759
lot more that we could do.
So even though it's three D and bigger

430
00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:23.400
budget and all that stuff, it's
way easier compared to SCRIPTA. A lot

431
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:27.039
of people don't think that cool awesome. Well I guess, well you go,

432
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:30.559
I would say I really enjoyed your
talking dice. Yes, oh thanks,

433
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.880
I thought I thought it was really
useful. I mean even just you

434
00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:36.799
know, it's like we're a you
know, not making games. We're riding

435
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:38.079
by the but you know, it's
like a small company that's like looking to

436
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:41.799
grow and continue to grow, and
that's sort of stuff. It's like some

437
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:42.519
of that stuff applying. Yeah,
well we knew that, Like, you

438
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:45.319
know, a lot of publishers go
to dice and stuff. So the kind

439
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:47.400
of the big message was just like, hey, make great games, don't

440
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:48.240
worry about the other stuff, right, Like a lot of publishers like,

441
00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:52.440
I need the power points and I
need this beau the beautiful design docs,

442
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:53.880
and that's cool and all. But
you know, if you do that,

443
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:56.680
do that on the publishers side,
right, don't don't like bog down the

444
00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:00.559
developer with that kind of stuff,
because you know, the consumer doesn't see

445
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:03.160
your schedule, the consumer doesn't see
your power points, the consumer doesn't see

446
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:06.279
your beautiful design docs. I mean, yes, the design docs have to

447
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:07.640
be written well, right, I
mean you have to convey your idea,

448
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:11.079
but you don't need to like have
an artist work on it, right,

449
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:12.039
you know what I mean. So
it's like that's really really important, and

450
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:15.559
so some publishers kind of put a
little more emphasis than they should on that.

451
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.519
So that was part of our talk, was like, hey, you

452
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:19.960
know, make sure that you know, make it getting good, because that's

453
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:22.960
all that matters, right, that's
really all the better. You goos don't

454
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:25.759
matter, you know, nothing like
us, It doesn't matter because they're not

455
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:27.559
playing us. They're playing what we
made. That's all that matters at the

456
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:30.200
end of the day. See what's
so funny is that all the means that

457
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:34.200
we've had, it's been like,
you know, all promised circumstances, and

458
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.599
I've been like, you know,
I just actually want to play a game,

459
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:41.599
right, no trailer, don't even
like don't control exactly, Like don't

460
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.519
even want Yeah, And and I
think that like especially at just like the

461
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.960
funniest thing in the entire world is
when you're showing it to people. It's

462
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.960
like the people that grab on the
controller are the ones that like you're actually

463
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.480
talking to and connecting to because those
are those are gamers, right, And

464
00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:59.960
so I think that's really really important, you know, from a publishing perspective,

465
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.759
like when developers come in, you
have to play the game just because

466
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:08.000
that's if you're not a gamer,
then why are you in this industry?

467
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:11.160
And it seems like that's that's a
dying greed. Sometimes seems like there's a

468
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.039
lot of it is a lot of
damn suits because there's so much money,

469
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:21.400
right, I mean that's a big
thing. Yeah, No, I do

470
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:26.759
that because that's that's Johnny B.
But like I don't think how the programmer

471
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:36.119
look at it. It's like some
Joseph of Bood. I mean, right,

472
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.759
sport jacket brands. I'll say combine, thanks again for we'll let you

473
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:56.559
get night and Dave Lange the camera
give him away now a little fact.

474
00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:00.359
Jeremiah has got the best sneaker collection
in the gaming industry. I want to

475
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:02.599
see him and suit A fifty one
go up again. So we've got another

476
00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:12.440
program was wrong, it's a good
man. I just want to go.

477
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:18.079
You want for all the edit points
for later on when you're trying to chop

478
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:22.680
this down? What do you get
chopped down? Statuta? If I cut

479
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:32.079
it down, people end up cut
all good stuff. This is life,

480
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:37.400
Dave Lang Iron Galaxy Studios for now, that's a that's a company that people

481
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.759
might not be familiar with. You
know, you're not necessarily at their peril,

482
00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:45.400
sir, Yeah, what what's you
tell us? What is Iron Galaxy

483
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:49.799
all about? So we split off
a midway before the whole Warnbler swoop didn't

484
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:52.400
kind of saved the day there,
group of us kind of broke out started

485
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.839
doing just like technical outsourcing stuff,
basically like you know this project the business

486
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.440
guy's getting room and they're like,
oh, this game it's in trouble hastor

487
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:04.440
ship Q three. Uh so that's
when they hire us and we kind of

488
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.319
go in there and do our thing. Thank you very thank you, sir.

489
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:17.279
What we've worked on some hot bangers
and it into that Jeff, let

490
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:23.279
me tell the story, let me
tell them so. Uh then we've slowly

491
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:28.119
been transitioning into full game development.
We have like really good relationships with some

492
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:31.000
people we work with and plan it's
X blaps and stuff. We recently just

493
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:35.160
shipped you don't know Jack with Jelly
Vision and THHQ. We wrote all the

494
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:38.599
jokes, we did all the fun
stuff and no the Jelly Vish guys were

495
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:43.240
in there banging and keyboards making programming
happen, and we wrote all it's a

496
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:45.839
little known fact about the game.
And Mike Builder, your name's Mike Bill.

497
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:52.319
Is that your pseudonym? Pseudonym pseudonym
fifty? What what I'll do this

498
00:32:52.359 --> 00:33:00.240
all day? What do you fun? But yeah, so we just that

499
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:01.880
basically just tried to get at their
way, let them be funny, you

500
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.880
know, gave them the platform to
do that, and we've got a bunch

501
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:07.599
of really cool stuff that once again
we can't talk about yet, but it'll

502
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:12.400
all be out this year, so
it'll be really cool later this year.

503
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:14.519
From what you've demonstrated so far,
I don't know why you wanted to get

504
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:22.119
out of their way to let them
be funny. Isn't it taking You might

505
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:23.680
want to change the angle of your
seat. They're seen your profile. It's

506
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:34.039
not that becoming. We profile off
right now. So now I'm gonna say

507
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.559
to stay there just to spite me. Eat. Now, what are you

508
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:43.160
doing your GDC other than your chest
drink? Alright? So yeah, so

509
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:47.079
it's basically like business drunk. I'm
like, let me start you kind of

510
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:51.559
wake up and just vot the Tonics
all day long. So we redesigned the

511
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:57.599
Heisman Trophy last night. It's me
giving stiff around to a high indie developer

512
00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:00.519
with the five to Tonic in my
hand, like this hand help? Like,

513
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:06.319
are you developer? Was like putting
a boot to his head? Layer

514
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:08.360
at it or something? You know
clearly, Jeff, you don't know theyhing

515
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:16.400
about the Hisman trophy. You have
to raise one foot that the figured who

516
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:20.840
boot is going to his skull?
So why are you smashing developers? Are

517
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.360
you saying you hate into developers.
No, I am an indie developer,

518
00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:27.840
so you gotta hate all the other
into developers so you can have indian The

519
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:30.840
only way to stop on the only
way it will succeed is by keeping others

520
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:35.559
down. That's actually yeah, it
actually doesn't have internet in the office.

521
00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:45.400
He doesn't want anyone on, no
job searches, nothing like that. What's

522
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:50.880
up, bunny, I'm drinking it
up on So other than being business drug,

523
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:52.880
have you got to any talks?
It's basically that a lot of pitch

524
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:57.280
meetings, stuffy hoping. Yeah,
it's basically just meeting, meeting, meeting.

525
00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:59.440
The couple of guys are here and
they said they saw some really cool

526
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:04.840
stuff. I think they liked the
remedy talk today. But that's one.

527
00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:08.159
Oh yo, that's I'll tell you
about everybody. Sorry, I'm like,

528
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:14.239
I'm freaking out, Steven Great.
Has anyone have you heard about this vers

529
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:19.320
No? What is it? This
game? No? The twelve right where

530
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:24.679
these guys got up and we're like, where's my credit? Where starting questions?

531
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:31.400
Definitely heard about versus y, Yeah, like the publishing versus developments just

532
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:35.440
the sky right, I'm not I'm
not going to actually be the no hell

533
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:37.840
no, because it'll get quoted.
I'm not gonna be the guy that like

534
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:40.960
retells that story, but you could
actually go and read ahead and read that

535
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:47.119
what's what is that story to say? That story has to say? It

536
00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:51.000
was that the guy, like you
said, the physics engine guy basically got

537
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:53.599
up during the QA and asked what
physics engine they used, and he said,

538
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:57.519
oh, well this one. He's
like, so you're gonna give them

539
00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:00.840
credit, and there's just an awkward
moment of silence, and then the dudes

540
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:05.239
from Rovio We're like, we'll talk
after this is over. Well on the

541
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:08.400
CEO of that physical right right,
Yeah, he definitely called himself out forgot

542
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:21.559
that. Sorry, I'm sorry that
No, no, no, that's it.

543
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:25.519
That's the end of the Story's old
thirty million on Android or something like

544
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:30.159
that. Like I'm not it was
like ad supported on ant or something,

545
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:32.840
but they have thirty million downloads.
That okay, but that's probably the most

546
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:39.800
thing. Yeah, I don't know, truths, I am Android. Crediting

547
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:45.320
in games actually seems like it is. It is uh kind of crazy.

548
00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:49.079
It's weird people that people leave companies
and then they don't end up getting credits

549
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:52.039
and as more and more games get
outsourced. Uh do you want to speak

550
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:57.079
about that, Adam, Well,
I mean we have a big we haven't

551
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.320
talk often about at what point at
the project if you you he's an okay

552
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:08.679
to take you out of the credits. Yeah, well so the day Dave

553
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:14.199
Lang would love if the credits roll
was blank for everyone, he's very much

554
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:16.639
So that's absolutely not true. But
you don't like when people stuff that drives

555
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:22.639
me double credit Like a year before
the game is shipping, people are like,

556
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:24.199
oh, so what's my title gonna
be? That drives me absolutely bonkers,

557
00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:28.800
Like just do your work, we'll
roll the names, you'll be in

558
00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:31.159
there and a story. Right that's
credits are simple, should be the simplest

559
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:34.719
thing in the freaking game. So
yeah, it drives me bonkers. But

560
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:37.320
actually a lot of times, like
even if developers want to leave people in

561
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:40.400
like legal publisher legal, like no, you've got to yank come out right,

562
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:45.679
like they might have claim against us, fraudulent or not. And so

563
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:47.360
a lot of times people get a
bad rap for that. But sometimes it's

564
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:50.840
just like, you know, this
game is not coming out unless these people

565
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.480
are removed. So okay, was
still in the credits for our games.

566
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:57.519
A while after he came back here, he was in Rockman three, but

567
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:00.559
yeah, I don't think he was
in because yeah, it was gone.

568
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:04.679
And I think that we did somewhere
like two thirds of the dev cycle or

569
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:07.639
like that he had someone in the
studio had like substantive work on part of

570
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:09.719
the project that like basically made it
possible to ship. Not like they were

571
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:13.159
in a meeting where someone was like, we should totally have that character.

572
00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:15.199
I have red hair. It's like, yeah, red hair and the dancing,

573
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:20.360
right. I got it that he's
game creating centrally. Yes, it's

574
00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:22.480
fair because like you don't want to
get sort of been on shoot about it.

575
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.320
But like when BCR two came out
and I'm like, oh, our

576
00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:29.880
old guys that were there when we
signed it and worked halfway on and aren't

577
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:32.679
in the credits. And I was
like and like, but you don't want

578
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:37.480
to get too worked out because so
many of approvals I know actually met create

579
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:42.880
system credits. What's up? No
one's react No, no, I mean

580
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:45.519
it's a nice pride point, it's
right, but you can't it doesn't matter

581
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:47.679
if it's because I still saw my
rest or whatever. It's like it'sn't matter.

582
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:50.920
Yeah, but there's just that weird, you know, internal thing that

583
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:52.400
you're like, ah yeah, because
I mean they had the whole entire Grin

584
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:57.440
staff when Grin went under, they
had them all in the credit whatever your

585
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.199
life working on something? Yeah yeah, how about were Naughty Dog is there?

586
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:06.519
Uh? Well, depending on how
far into the project you leave,

587
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:14.360
you might get very special thanks or
maybe just special thanks, different special babies,

588
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:21.079
special game babies. Right, yeah, so how far? Like what

589
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:23.239
what is the rule? Uh,
it's all by seniority, and we sort

590
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:28.639
of group by discipline, sort sciplined
by alphabet, I believe, and then

591
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:30.440
inside eachipsmen it's like programmers. It's
just all by like when you re hired

592
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.360
on and that's it. But no
joke. Every every game that we are

593
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:37.360
finishing, it becomes like every time
like we are not going to have a

594
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:39.400
credits fight about like Howard in the
credits and who is in like what category

595
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:44.880
and that. Every year it's like
another round of will make my departments and

596
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:46.480
people who didn't work on this game
will work on the other game won't be

597
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:50.280
in the credits, And it's like
a huge discussion like as there's more and

598
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.000
more outsourcing and you know just like
different localization teams and something. You know,

599
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:57.360
some credit scrolls. I mean five
hundred people go watch a Sassin's Creed

600
00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:01.760
two credits. Yeah, even the
rock Beatles credits, it goes on forever.

601
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:06.679
Well, the Blackouts credits they were
like three songs. Yeah, like

602
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:09.519
the Modern Warfare two credits where it
gets to the publisher side credits and the

603
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:15.440
scroll speeds up. Like it's like, I will say one of the next

604
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:17.480
things about Naughty Dog is because we
are so flat, Uh, it'll just

605
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:22.480
be like lead programmer and programmers.
There's not like the lead you I assistant

606
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:25.960
programmer then like an adjunct programmer to
the main networking. It was a really

607
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:30.880
hard thing for us trying to build
this database and and give proper credits to

608
00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:34.880
people, and it sounds like there's
just no proper crediting guidelines for the industry

609
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:37.599
out there. It's also you know
when when like who's in charge is it

610
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:42.719
the producer? Is it like the
programmer, and when that one person is

611
00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:45.119
like giving like you're in charge of
credits. Also, there's this whole like

612
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:49.639
I have to make sure every person
that's ever touched this game ever gets in

613
00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:52.719
there and feels like a right because
they're gonna have that same feeling when they

614
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:58.880
watch it. That's my act.
I really respects working out great for them,

615
00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:00.719
Yeah exactly. I respect them for
doing that right because it's like,

616
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:05.199
all right, open call. How
many of you guys actually touched this games?

617
00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:10.400
And I wanted to be like,
yeah, I did, I did

618
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:15.840
the haircut on the chest, I
decided impression on them. I thought it

619
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:20.679
was interesting that there's like a check
boxes on the website about you know,

620
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:22.960
like what division of this game did
you maybe work on? And there was

621
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:28.440
one for press, and it was
like, you know, were you submitted

622
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:30.559
your own significant like, and I
was like, well, I just talked

623
00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:35.480
about that game once. I didn't
actually submit my own you did? No,

624
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:38.400
No, it's it's actually I actually
the only game I've ever been credited

625
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:42.880
in is a guitar here too,
And what my name is misspelled? It's

626
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:49.440
like a thank suarts. Johnny still
calls you that. I don't mean he's

627
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:51.960
just doing a Jeff Keely impression.
Jam, did you know that I'm not

628
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:55.679
tron Iron Galaxy is credited as mo
Cap Talent shut Out of this series were

629
00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:00.199
credited is capt talent and trona,
well you were in the suit for a

630
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:05.239
while. I'm not gonna we word. Yeah, but no, so thanks

631
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:10.480
for that good look up. Are
you serious? Yes, I ain't even

632
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:21.280
fucking around right now. You look
at story joining No, I tell you

633
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:24.480
want to tell a story, Okay, tell story about the threesome story.

634
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:32.599
Yeah. I don't trom threesome story
all right, so I'll tell it real

635
00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:37.199
quick, real quick. It is, so I go back to Shytown.

636
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:43.599
I'm hanging out having a great time, and uh, I'm hanging out with

637
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:49.320
the Hiring Galaxy dudes. And my
fiance rolls up with one of her good

638
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:52.760
friends and she sees me, and
I'm like, gomed right, and she's

639
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.559
like, we gotta get you out
of here, right, this is all

640
00:42:55.599 --> 00:43:00.360
being told to me like later on, right, And so then I get

641
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:04.360
in a cab we go and then
apparently went to seven to eleven. And

642
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:07.639
then at the seven to eleven it
was like there's some booze there, and

643
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:10.559
then the guy's like always stop selling
booze at two o'clock and it was two

644
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:14.920
fifteen, and then my fiance was
like, oh, he's gonna have a

645
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:16.199
three sum tonight. It's me and
this other chick, right, it was

646
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:20.599
there, So we're all excited.
And then only if you buy, only

647
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:22.239
if you sell the booth, right, and so the guys like yeah,

648
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:28.199
Greg Goose like puts it down.
Adrian throws down like a pack of magnums.

649
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:32.920
And then we so we go back
to friends and see why now,

650
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:43.480
why you were hesitant to so that
I can't believe It'll tell you sirt right

651
00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:49.280
now. So then we get back
to the girls place and this girl's like

652
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:52.039
best friends with Adrian whatever. Right, So they go outside and they're like

653
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:59.039
doaneah. Doorman's like hey, like
he like tries to stop me, and

654
00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:01.920
I'm like and he's goes like he's
gonna have a three some tonight, and

655
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:07.119
I'm like yeah, in the doormans
like all right, buddy, go upstairs,

656
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:09.800
right, So I go upstairs.
The girls go outside in the balcony

657
00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:15.480
to have a cigarette, and there's
like one of those big like leather like

658
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:19.719
real big, you know, like
the double leather the like a high chair

659
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:24.480
like you're a babe high chair chair, right, and then deep coaches.

660
00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:27.960
Yeah it so it's so funny.
So I got all excited, right,

661
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:32.440
and I sat down in the chair
and then no, yeah, I did

662
00:44:32.599 --> 00:44:37.320
disrupt and then I was just in
my amies and the girls are outside smoking,

663
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:40.360
and so then I was like,
oh shit, like he was missing

664
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:45.519
from this right now. So music, So I pulled out I on my

665
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:52.079
fucking phone, which is like this
little piece of shit, right, and

666
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:55.639
I went to YouTube and I was
like, John, like to see end

667
00:44:55.679 --> 00:45:00.800
of line club theme? And I
hit it right and it it's like dinner

668
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:06.719
n Then like I put it down
and I sat here right all same,

669
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:13.239
and the girls walked in and like, the fuck is wrong? Like you

670
00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:15.880
didn't think you're really gonna have a
three some day, do you? I

671
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:17.679
mean, I was like ah,
and they sat up for two and half

672
00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:23.400
minutes and left in my face.
Why why that sounds highly erotic? Yeah,

673
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:30.880
it was because I think I think
deeply passionate soul social music track.

674
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:36.280
Yes, definitely. So Tron is
weighing heavy on your brain then since the

675
00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:38.239
release of all this all the time, Yeah, Tron's Tron is awesome.

676
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:43.480
Yeah. Do you guys see the
Tron Jeremy thing? Yes, I actually

677
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:45.639
did see that. Yeah, it's
like you and me right, it's like

678
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:52.039
mister hands. Tron Jeremy like shit, yeah, yeah, right, definitely

679
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:57.719
anyway that story, here's my wagon
and mister hands we all end up dead.

680
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:00.400
All right with that, We're gonna
take a quick breath. We'll be

681
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:02.519
back in a little bit. But
you know there's a bar behind this camera.

682
00:46:02.599 --> 00:46:05.840
We got to visit it for a
little while, so, uh,

683
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:36.039
stay tuned. We'll be back.
Yeah, we are back. Man is

684
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:45.000
getting a little reckless reckless here,
thanks Jesus Christ. So I thought,

685
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:47.719
you know, I was looking around
the room and I realized, like all

686
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:53.679
you guys are from or worked in
Chicago, which you know, you don't

687
00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:58.360
necessarily hear a ton about as a
as a big game development mecca these days.

688
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:01.639
But I know you you three Johnny, Adam, Dave, y'all had

689
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:07.400
the time midway and you drink.
I'm good you just you guys. I

690
00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:09.320
think the three of us, especially
Sank, I think the three of us

691
00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:14.159
three are the reason someone said that
on the comments made me so set.

692
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:19.360
No. Yeah, I called you
about this, like, did Johnny does

693
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:22.000
not do well with ready? Did
you grow freaky Flyer and sport volets?

694
00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:30.159
What are your guys? What are
your guys? Is like? Yeah,

695
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:37.920
everything that like Vinyaki judges like it's
a complete disaster, a bankruptcy and ship

696
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:43.199
someone connected the docks, and so
I'm like I'm reading this and it's like,

697
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:46.280
like, dude, was it Midway
Midway crash guy with the boaster that

698
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:50.199
crash, And it's like, I'm
like, now I'm at the largest entertainment

699
00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:57.280
company in the world. Just you
just needing a new challenge, man,

700
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:00.320
know everything? This was too easy, even on right that tur mode.

701
00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:04.280
So I was mortified. I would
to Chicago for the first time, I

702
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:09.440
think in nineteen ninety one, and
it was for CS I was six.

703
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.840
Yeah, they went up two c
Yes, this year when I was like

704
00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:14.920
seventeen, I mean you want you
started going to trade shows, we were

705
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:20.920
like sixteen or sixty fourteen. Yeah, I just turned eighteen. So yeah,

706
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:24.440
it was the same time. Deal. I was too bad. I

707
00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:30.800
was trying to meet dudes in the
game industry, trying to Yes, that

708
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:37.440
came out exactly right, exactly.
You look at Jeffer, he met a

709
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:43.920
lot of dude, this is this
second is this is going to be in

710
00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:46.400
position. Chicago past is going just
the way it should. Yeah, And

711
00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:52.559
I remember going to the Battle Tech
Center. Yea so good. Yeah,

712
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:53.880
yeah, and uh, you know, and then they eventually added Red Planet

713
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:58.280
and suck the whole thing up.
But like location based entertainment, how many

714
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:01.239
you guys working on can't flick that? That's the real stus good world topic

715
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:05.559
starter. You guys all into that, and you're gonna start it's good at

716
00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:07.559
we all and don't respond, right, just quiet, totally disting for the

717
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:14.280
audio versus called Disney World. Never
heard of it. I thought it was

718
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:17.199
called Freesome World in your world God, and I'm so upset about that.

719
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:25.239
Ahead so exciting ratings. So the
Chicago game industry, I mean obviously you

720
00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:29.079
know, another realm was still there, kind of as like the one of

721
00:49:29.079 --> 00:49:32.639
the last you know, remnists of
Midway. I guess I would I would

722
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:36.840
call it. I was this.
I was talking to somebody from another on

723
00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:38.360
last night. They said They're like, I'm like, I have no idea

724
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:42.480
how big there. It's there,
one fifty star, so many people still

725
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:45.519
there, it's crazy awesome. They
just kind of working on MK, right,

726
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:50.840
I don't who be Yeah that's true. Yeah, I mean we we

727
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:53.679
know they have an MGP dep kid, so that probably we don't all that

728
00:49:53.679 --> 00:50:02.480
official. Nobody any board Watts watching
the kid that making sure makes touches it.

729
00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:05.800
So we're talking about it now that
you guys have you know, kind

730
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:09.920
of seen except Dave, who is
still reving Chicago. But now you guys,

731
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:15.400
have I seen the world as it
were? Uh? I brought Dave

732
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:19.079
fire for the first time. It
was like watching the small Child discover the

733
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:22.159
Earth. It's like, yeah,
it's a place you've only ever seen on

734
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:25.639
TV. It's like it's magic land. It doesn't it might as well been

735
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:28.840
like the fucking Grin. To me, it's like, you go this place,

736
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:37.519
like this really exists. Holy shit. Weird Exit they have acts Weird's

737
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:42.639
tagline when Patrick gets the city that
was taken down by fire, so wherever

738
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:45.119
Dave was, The first thing he
does is looks for the fire exits,

739
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:52.599
making sure everything is safe. Speaking
strange tongues, what's different about Chicago in

740
00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:54.440
terms of like it's development scene and
stuff compared to them? You know,

741
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:59.880
you're in LA and obviously you're out
here now. Uh, Is there some

742
00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.400
then unique about Chica? Why do
the people in Chicago stay in Chicago?

743
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:06.880
It doesn't seem like there are a
ton of developers out there. It's just

744
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:09.800
heavy, you know, like low
cost of living, and that's not something

745
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:13.920
I first understand either because like,
uh, you know, born and raised

746
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:15.559
there or whatever. I got my
first job out in Salt Lake, did

747
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:21.719
a bunch of stuff out there,
and came back stake. Yeah, were

748
00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:28.039
you in Iguana? I was in
Sculpture. They turned into Iguana then yeah.

749
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:32.519
Then Microsoft out there, well was
the Access guys who became Microsoft.

750
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:37.960
H the indie build then they turned
into indie Billy there form three. No,

751
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:43.440
I was there, so I was
in and am two and links for

752
00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:46.280
the first one for Xbox drops and
uh, they're so busy then yeah,

753
00:51:46.719 --> 00:51:54.000
anyway, there really been making mad
Cat. It's so awesome money. You've

754
00:51:54.039 --> 00:51:59.239
seen the robot arm, You've seen
it. It's fa anyway. But yeah,

755
00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:14.519
it's what is it about Chicago that
attracts that number of game developers?

756
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:20.880
Like I know obviously that wait,
Drake is gonna speak. So the thing

757
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:22.880
about Chicago, and the thing about
the Midwest in general, is that,

758
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:31.079
like many sitcoms on CBS, there
are hot women willie to bed large pasty

759
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:37.079
men. You want to make fun
of me right now? I got the

760
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:43.639
John was the commentary that you know, really got you upset. I've just

761
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:46.519
been following your career trying to stop
the little Ton man. Aside from Patrick

762
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:49.719
on his panel, Yeah, I
know where you're coming with, take it

763
00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:52.559
down. But it's uh, it's
I mean, it's it's a nice place

764
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:55.480
to live. It's a well planned
city. You got good colored trace Chicago,

765
00:52:55.800 --> 00:53:00.119
well planned city. Hey, I
live I live in Boston and it

766
00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:02.719
snows like a foot and it all
traffic just stops because the roads sucking curve

767
00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:07.480
and I'll get into terrible playing the
wind west of the Midwest. You know,

768
00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:13.000
everything was great Buck Boston. Fuh
god, I did not see anything

769
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:15.800
from here popping out. No,
I just mean as a poorly plant city,

770
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:20.000
try to playing Buck Boston fight or
something. I don't know it,

771
00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:22.039
Frinch, and I think it's I
think you know it. Say Actually,

772
00:53:22.039 --> 00:53:25.480
it seems true about Vancouver is that
people don't like to leave, like when

773
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:29.880
the family in layers and families,
they don't want to leave, right And

774
00:53:29.960 --> 00:53:32.760
Canadians just are allergic to America usually. So I took a lot of injections

775
00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:35.920
before it came down here. That
explains a lot. See, yeah,

776
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:37.320
for for our side of things,
you know, I mean, obviously you

777
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:39.880
know, you you got gaming former
out in Minnesota. There's some stuff down

778
00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:45.480
in LA and you have kind of
like bloggers kind of spread out in whatever

779
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:49.480
weird parts of the world that they
can uh work on a blogger salary,

780
00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:52.239
but the bulk of it is here
in San Francisco, you know, So

781
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:54.559
it's always interesting to me to see. It's just like, you know,

782
00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:58.840
there are different scenes of you know, it's like the Austin scene and like

783
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:02.039
Vancouver and stuff like that. So
you know, just like what was it

784
00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:06.639
like what was Midway like? I
mean, you guys were there as they

785
00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:09.760
were transitioning like out of arcades into
the home market, right, that used

786
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:13.639
to be like a crazy time.
I think. Me being from small town

787
00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:16.199
Canada, I'm moving to Chicago as
my first like I'd lived in Ireland for

788
00:54:16.199 --> 00:54:20.119
a bit, but moving to Chicago
working for Midway. I'd worked at EA

789
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:22.679
before, so it was used to
very corporate, sort of regimented thing.

790
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:25.599
And I remember it was week number
two and we were having a company wide

791
00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:30.440
conference call. And what happened was
we're all dialing out of the time,

792
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:36.519
and they screwed up the dial in
so everyone so everyone could hear everyone else

793
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:39.199
so there's like and be like,
oh I canna hear how I can hear

794
00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:43.280
it? And all of a sudden, I hear this accent. Hello,

795
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:51.519
this is Neil. I own your
fucking dreams. And I'm like and me

796
00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:57.239
just like I'm literally pooping my pants
and like somebody sucking fire, I should

797
00:54:57.280 --> 00:55:00.639
leave? Right? Was what what
is this a about? And so they

798
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:05.840
finally figured out like everyone's joining and
leaving the like leaving the conference call.

799
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:08.800
Afterwards, I'm like, what was
that when you're fucking dreams? And like

800
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:13.800
that's pretty good story at him.
Three years ago, Neil the Castro was

801
00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:15.800
the old CEO of the time.
It's holding a company meeting. Now.

802
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:21.000
Apparently a lot of people had wanted
to ask questions at the company meetings,

803
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:24.599
but he was never really comfortable addressing
the whole the whole company. So finally

804
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:29.119
said, okay, hr get it. I'll answer questions. This one guy,

805
00:55:29.159 --> 00:55:30.280
you know, he's okay. So
he's in the meeting and he always

806
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:34.840
used to hold this car, used
to smoke it before they meet them.

807
00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:39.320
For that was not good. No, I mean I didn't work there with

808
00:55:39.400 --> 00:55:44.480
him, so it was all added
to he got Johnny could probably gout more.

809
00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:46.199
But so he's so he's got his
cigar in his mouth. He's like,

810
00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:50.480
okay, so apparently we want to
answer some questions. So anyone got

811
00:55:50.519 --> 00:55:52.519
a question that the like cheapest artist
guy in the back, like, I

812
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:58.400
have a question the Actually it was
the cat that claimed he invented the week.

813
00:55:58.880 --> 00:56:01.639
Oh, they better hold up his
hand, and he was like,

814
00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:07.280
okay, what's your questions? Like, so, you know in our contract

815
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:09.199
says that you know, you guys
own the IP that we create, but

816
00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:12.679
you know, I've been working on
singing at home and with my friends,

817
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:16.239
but not in the office, just
at home. And he starts explaining that

818
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:22.800
he's been creating this thing question like
this eight minutes into it, and Neil's

819
00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:25.360
just pasting like Neil's just some canoe
dude. He's just like a side ship,

820
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:30.320
like put people in the drink,
you know, that's what So finally,

821
00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:36.440
finally, right, So these guys, so, so would you is

822
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:39.119
that something that I would have to
get a clear unsapproval from my manager to

823
00:56:39.199 --> 00:56:42.559
own that or what? And he's
like, you know what, we own

824
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:46.480
your fucking dreams. Meetings adjourn and
he fucking walks out of the room.

825
00:56:46.519 --> 00:56:50.159
I thought I thought maybe he'd threw
his cigar. At that point. He

826
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:52.920
was sho never waits, So I
mean for me to hear these stories,

827
00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:58.480
being from a small time can,
I was like, I think I'm in

828
00:56:58.519 --> 00:57:01.119
the wrong town. I need to
go. But the food is really good,

829
00:57:01.159 --> 00:57:04.480
because that was the one thing you
always hurt like when you weren't in

830
00:57:04.519 --> 00:57:06.639
Midway, always hurt ude. They're
run by the mob. They're run by

831
00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:09.159
the mob or whatever. That's what
we always And then Captain salt Lake shows

832
00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:12.880
up. He's like, they're run
by the mob. Dude, I remember

833
00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:15.079
my first week. This is crazy. So there's this weird SNS Delhi is

834
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:19.159
like right around the corner, right
and I'm sitting there like I don't know

835
00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:21.039
anybody. No one wants to go
to lunch, but I'm the new guy.

836
00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:23.159
Everyone's like, fucking you guys,
whatever. That lanky motherfucker I was

837
00:57:23.199 --> 00:57:30.079
lanky then not fat. We'll get
there. You'll get there. And so

838
00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:32.280
when I go to the IY,
just walk in this SENS Delhi and I'm

839
00:57:32.360 --> 00:57:36.039
like, yeah, I just give
me a sandwich or whatever. And he's

840
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:38.840
like, you guys. The guy's
like, do you work at Midway?

841
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:45.719
And I'm like Yeah, he's like
nice family organization. And I'm like,

842
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:50.039
oh my god, it's I'm starting
to freak out ship and he's like,

843
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:52.199
yeah, my kids love some of
those games they make. I'm okay then

844
00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:55.119
till you die in Yeah. So
it was where you always heard those rumors

845
00:57:55.119 --> 00:58:00.679
and then when you get there nothing
like I never that in our time anyway.

846
00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:02.239
Yeah. I mean the thing that
we would always hear is that a

847
00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:07.320
claim it was the company that was
run by the Mob, and that that

848
00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:09.320
was always you guys hear anything about
well, I mean, Johnny was there

849
00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:15.760
during the Mob bears en midway.
One is a made man and the other

850
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:17.639
the other thing. I you know, remember hearing about the other days you

851
00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:21.519
bring up Neil to Castro like that
was the name. Remember fat Babies?

852
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:27.519
Yeah yeah, hell side help us
we want to ever ask for a read?

853
00:58:27.639 --> 00:58:34.159
It was becoming no Neil g Yeah. But you would see Neil the

854
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:38.320
Castro's name on there like every other
day, just with some horrific story.

855
00:58:38.800 --> 00:58:42.480
And I never I'd never met him. I didn't. I would never have

856
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:45.880
thought of him as being like cigars
smoking that kind of crazy. He seemed

857
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:47.280
like fucking out of his mind from
all these stories it would appear. It's

858
00:58:47.320 --> 00:58:51.559
like, okay, it was the
game clearly run by fucking craze. It

859
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:54.440
wasn't the mob. It's the fucking
criminally insane, like who would run a

860
00:58:54.440 --> 00:58:58.159
company this way? And reading that
stuff and obviously it's two sides everything,

861
00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:00.960
but that that's the beauty of fat
What was with the concept of Neil came

862
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:07.079
up with would sell Moon's units?
Was that which ny I don't know,

863
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:15.239
I don't remember. It's the rest
sponse everyone's hoping for us so about Catholic

864
00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:20.079
school girls on a bus with a
gun. Yeah, I remember, Actually

865
00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:22.639
Neil, Neil was a good guy. No, Neil was a good guy.

866
00:59:23.079 --> 00:59:28.519
It seemed like it just kind of
maybe guts sidetracked more and more in

867
00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:30.239
the years after that. I mean, what, what was what were the

868
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:36.840
first games that you worked on at
Midway twenty you guys when you were shipping

869
00:59:36.840 --> 00:59:37.920
back are you were there earlier than
any of us. You were there for

870
00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:42.239
like eight nine years. Yeah,
we're working on Blitz. We were working

871
00:59:42.280 --> 00:59:50.039
on yeah two thousand two talking I'm
sorry, uh, Blitz twenty o two

872
00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:52.679
and Red Card Soccer and we had
a lot of things going on at that

873
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:58.559
point. But what was crazy is
that there was a division between Arcade and

874
00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:04.519
Home Council developm Right, And what's
funny And I look back at it now

875
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:07.280
and I think that, you know, if if Midway hadn't made a forty

876
01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:13.360
million dollar investment in this is vase, and if we had actually held on

877
01:00:13.480 --> 01:00:17.280
to everything, right, what's funny
is that all the old school guys were

878
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:22.320
brilliant about taking fifty cents for two
minutes, right, Yeah, And so

879
01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:27.039
now we look back and we laugh
at how crazy everything was. Right,

880
01:00:27.119 --> 01:00:31.159
But if iOS and everything was happening
with iPhone right now and all those old

881
01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:35.960
school Midway guys are still there,
Midway would be killing it. I mean,

882
01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:38.400
I mean that I actually saw talking
with somebody said the original micro transaction

883
01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:42.679
once twenty five cents was a quarter, and those guys master. And actually

884
01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:45.199
one of the biggest things I learned
from Mark and Ed and Brian and all

885
01:00:45.199 --> 01:00:49.760
those guys was how to draw on
the small compulsion loop of drawing that next

886
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:52.360
quarter, like it has to be
great and compelling, but you have to

887
01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:54.360
want to continue at the end of
that. And that was definitely one of

888
01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:59.039
the when Mark Serni talked it at
Dice was one of the things that he

889
01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:00.880
kind of drew out of that talk, kind of talking about, you know,

890
01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:04.880
just the whole legacy of games starting
back at arcades. You know you

891
01:01:04.960 --> 01:01:07.639
work on Morrible Madness and all that
stuff back in the day. Was that

892
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:09.719
exact thing. I'm just like,
like, look at today's look at the

893
01:01:09.719 --> 01:01:15.280
Facebook games where the micro transactions fit, Like look at the iPhone games and

894
01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:19.199
my Android games and kind of how
those work that. Yeah, it really

895
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:22.280
is this return to to arcade days. Yeah, it blows my mind again,

896
01:01:22.400 --> 01:01:27.639
Like if maybe was still around,
I mean, there would be the

897
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:30.599
most crazy apps out there and just
like legendary. Right. It's like that's

898
01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:34.039
the weirdest thing about like working there. As you start off and it's like,

899
01:01:34.519 --> 01:01:37.679
oh, I'm a lead programmer on
slugfestor blitz Er whatever. Oh,

900
01:01:37.719 --> 01:01:42.679
Mark Turmeil has got some feedback for
you. It's like Mark fucking Turmel right,

901
01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:45.440
doing is right? Just incredible game. It's an incredible game. It's

902
01:01:45.440 --> 01:01:49.119
incredible game. It's like, what
I guess I'll just say yes and thank

903
01:01:49.159 --> 01:01:51.679
you. It's like, what are
you gonna do? It's like I'm like,

904
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:53.239
I'm really gonna say anything to saund
or those guys, they're just like

905
01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:58.320
they invented that stuff and so you
just gotta listen. It made for some

906
01:01:58.440 --> 01:02:00.239
awkward times though, because like you
know, she like progressives. Like eventually

907
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:05.559
I was the studio TV there and
ostensibly like in charge of like all the

908
01:02:05.559 --> 01:02:08.039
projects, technical direction on all the
projects. But like the MK guys have

909
01:02:08.119 --> 01:02:12.760
been making that game since like before
I was in the industry, Like what

910
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:15.000
am I really going to tell them
about making them k just like just get

911
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:20.079
the get out of their way,
let them do their thing. So it

912
01:02:20.119 --> 01:02:22.599
made stuff like that ats like you
know, like at something they wouldn't listen,

913
01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:25.800
like, and those guys were super
good about all that stuff. It's

914
01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:31.039
just made the titles weird at that
company because like these guys have been there

915
01:02:31.039 --> 01:02:35.800
forever. Everyone knows you're not going
to tell them boom because they've earned it,

916
01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:37.280
right, Yeah, And it just
made stuff like that really weird,

917
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:40.599
but just so much you could learn
and yeah, really smart dudes. I

918
01:02:40.639 --> 01:02:45.320
remember rolling into George Gomanz's office once
and we had office rip show and I'm

919
01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:47.760
like, George, I got a
question for you. So the original Spy

920
01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:53.800
Enter when you guys outsourced the motorcycle
models to China. How many people did

921
01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:59.320
that take? And what was the
rough cause he just loved the whole outsourcing

922
01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:01.440
things like back in my day with
four guys in a weekend, you know,

923
01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:06.000
and to work walk, you know, work with all those guys.

924
01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:07.039
It was, it was, it
was humbling, it was I mean,

925
01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:10.679
Johnny spend the most time with all
those old guys that that did the fantastic

926
01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:15.000
job. And it's great interact with
him in joke bustuff because they just thought

927
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:17.159
the new stuff. They're like crazy
one hundred and twenty person teams back in

928
01:03:17.239 --> 01:03:22.159
my day six guys. But that's
that's what's so charming about all of the

929
01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:24.079
like iOS, development, Android,
all that kind of stuff. Right,

930
01:03:24.079 --> 01:03:28.719
it's back because it's still same cats. Right, so if you could imagine

931
01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:31.519
like they're not even being you know
these platforms, right, I mean,

932
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:37.159
these are the guys that like are
pioneering everything, and so it's it's so

933
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:39.119
super cool. I mean I remember
gigging out all the time with George like,

934
01:03:39.320 --> 01:03:43.119
so is there a helicopter? And
s my hunts we made it up,

935
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:46.320
like is there is there a twelfth
key terminil to get into the pleasure

936
01:03:46.360 --> 01:03:51.360
though He's like, no, actually
we put that in. Then we never

937
01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:53.719
put the key actually in the game, so people keep putting more money in,

938
01:03:53.880 --> 01:03:58.760
you know, like you know,
like that kind of stuff was hot

939
01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:03.599
Scoops, Hot Scoops. You just
blew my fucking mind. Right, there's

940
01:04:03.639 --> 01:04:06.679
going to take that to the grave. It wasn't even like that. I

941
01:04:06.679 --> 01:04:11.840
mean, but like those were like
the pioneers of our industry, you know,

942
01:04:11.920 --> 01:04:14.559
for for you know, the most
part. And it's like, you

943
01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:17.239
know, and Eugene Jarvis, Robotromp, right, I mean talk about brilliant

944
01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:20.559
and addictive at the same time,
right, I mean, just and that

945
01:04:20.679 --> 01:04:26.320
spawn Smash TV and like I just
actually, you know, uh, admittedly

946
01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:30.519
and stupidly finished Black Ops. Right. I'm like months and months and months

947
01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:34.559
late, which is why it's stupid. But I did Dead Ops, right,

948
01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:38.039
and I'm like, damn, this
is like Smash TV. This is

949
01:04:38.119 --> 01:04:41.400
dope as fuck. Right, And
then I was talking to people at Disney

950
01:04:41.480 --> 01:04:43.880
about it and they're like, oh, Dead Ops is so cool. I'm

951
01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:45.440
like, it's just like Smash TV. And they're like, what Smash TV.

952
01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:53.199
And I'm like, it's zombies.
Like it's like people, it's people,

953
01:04:53.239 --> 01:04:56.679
don't you know, like you have
to know your history in order to

954
01:04:56.760 --> 01:04:59.239
innovate, you know, moving forward. So I mean, you know that's

955
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:01.880
look back at you know, my
time, like my misspent youth in r

956
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:04.719
K. Well I misspent maybe maybe
not considering how it all ended up for

957
01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:09.199
me, but spend all that time
in arcades like you know, Midway and

958
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:13.000
Atari, who you know like would
later go on to kind of fall under

959
01:05:13.039 --> 01:05:16.199
the Midway umbrella. Like those were
the guys that were were making the games

960
01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:19.960
that mattered to me growing up.
So it was always really interesting to like

961
01:05:20.280 --> 01:05:25.800
kind of follow the Midway name through
the years and and even even as it

962
01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:29.840
started to go really even as Freaky
Flyers was coming out and they were like,

963
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:31.960
well we're gonna remake Defender, and
I said, well good luck with

964
01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:38.239
that. Uh you know, you
kind of stood by and watched it all

965
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:41.119
unfold, like hoping like, oh, these these guys are totally inna turn

966
01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:44.639
around because it's a fucking Midway.
They own all these great names. It's

967
01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:47.239
like in and you with especially with
all the uh, all the Mopeda stuff,

968
01:05:47.239 --> 01:05:50.079
like all the all the Atari stuff
come falling under that umbrella. At

969
01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:55.400
one point, a Midway owned the
rights to RBI Baseball that's true. So

970
01:05:57.079 --> 01:06:00.559
yeah, exactly. So I recently
fell down this horrible hole when I so

971
01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:03.760
I realized that Namco was putting out
a baseball game on the three DS,

972
01:06:03.920 --> 01:06:08.119
and it's you know, they've been
continuing that series that was getting translated over

973
01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:11.000
here as RBI Baseball for years and
years and years, and I was like,

974
01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:14.320
man, someone needs to just localize
this game. Put it out as

975
01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:17.280
RBI Baseball. And then I just
fell into this like horrible research hole of

976
01:06:17.320 --> 01:06:23.920
like it's RBI Baseball xpla game that
was announced by some company that's not even

977
01:06:23.920 --> 01:06:27.320
made games two years. I think. Actually, I think what's most exciting

978
01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:30.679
is that there was a little bit
of I think you actually broke a story

979
01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:36.719
Jeff about Blitz. Yeah. Yeah, so it sounds it sounds like that.

980
01:06:36.800 --> 01:06:40.800
I mean obviously he has picked up
the rights of that stuff with JAM

981
01:06:40.840 --> 01:06:44.400
coming back, and yeah, it
sounds it sounds like that they are working

982
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:46.280
on them. Yeah, I mean
so quietly. All I had heard was

983
01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:50.000
that like they went in and got
all the sports licenses out of Midway when

984
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:54.840
it was in bankruptcy, right and
and so yeah, like JAM, I

985
01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:58.480
think was great and it's it's great
to see Jam being translated all these different

986
01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:02.480
platforms, and Blitz would be awesome
too. I mean it's really exciting that

987
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:09.000
like Termelo is over there and to
like shepherd these projects can and and really

988
01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:12.639
do that stuff like that's it's heartwarming
in a way, you know, it's

989
01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:15.440
I mean, it's like I think
it's more heartwarming now that Jams came out.

990
01:07:15.519 --> 01:07:16.559
It was really good. Yeah,
because when we first heard this,

991
01:07:17.039 --> 01:07:21.440
we're all like, oh, the
table and being next, I'm like to

992
01:07:21.480 --> 01:07:27.000
destroy everything. Jamin kind of get
it. That's awesome, and Mark's there

993
01:07:27.239 --> 01:07:30.119
sort of. It was definitely one
of those things. We're talking to Trey

994
01:07:30.280 --> 01:07:33.000
Smith, who who was I guess
the producer, yeah, JAM, Like,

995
01:07:33.519 --> 01:07:35.880
as soon as I started talking to
him, he very clearly got it.

996
01:07:36.199 --> 01:07:40.239
And you there's something about games like
NBA. I mean, we have

997
01:07:40.239 --> 01:07:44.760
a fucking NBA jam sheet here exactly
right that as soon as you are talking

998
01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:47.639
to someone who gets who gets that, like you can tell them medialy He's

999
01:07:47.679 --> 01:07:50.920
like, you should actually come see
that. You like started to like okay

1000
01:07:50.920 --> 01:07:54.400
at lea show you actually the stuff
that is really cool about this game.

1001
01:07:54.599 --> 01:07:59.079
As Mosis people are just walking up
and we're like, yeah, I remember

1002
01:07:59.119 --> 01:08:01.960
actually he donally the game for me
and I was such a huge NBA JAM

1003
01:08:01.960 --> 01:08:05.320
fan, and I actually he demoted
the game for me, and I was

1004
01:08:05.360 --> 01:08:11.000
like sweet. And there was always
a moment when someone was coming down for

1005
01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:15.320
a dunk where you could push them, and so I actually tested it to

1006
01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:18.279
see if it was still in there, and it was yeah. And I

1007
01:08:18.439 --> 01:08:21.720
was like, you know, I
am like probably the most hardcore you can

1008
01:08:21.720 --> 01:08:26.239
get with JAM and with Showtime at
hang Time and all those games, and

1009
01:08:26.239 --> 01:08:28.840
I'm like, that's still in there. And he's like, you know,

1010
01:08:29.159 --> 01:08:32.560
we still have a nod for all
the even like old school hardcore fans of

1011
01:08:32.560 --> 01:08:36.159
it. And so that like made
me feel really great because they were honoring,

1012
01:08:36.359 --> 01:08:40.399
you know, the guys that I
looked at to as mentors. Yeah,

1013
01:08:40.399 --> 01:08:42.640
it's I think one of the favorite
things like those games. One of

1014
01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:45.840
the things that's such some part is
like the attention to the tiniest details and

1015
01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:47.279
what those those one can care in
the crafts and ship like we got put

1016
01:08:47.319 --> 01:08:51.920
in Like I remember I was helping
in between it must have been Let's one

1017
01:08:51.960 --> 01:08:56.159
and Let's two. I was helping
balls two out and they put that two

1018
01:08:56.159 --> 01:08:59.359
on two mode in their full court
and termel. He's like talking, He's

1019
01:08:59.399 --> 01:09:01.279
like the care this to be like
Showtime. I'm like, okay, cool

1020
01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:03.840
whatever, and I cod it up
when I do the thing, and he's

1021
01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:08.479
like this is no, this is
not even Next day when I get the

1022
01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:12.840
office, there's a fucking Showtime cabinet
in my office and he comes over.

1023
01:09:12.960 --> 01:09:15.840
He was just like you look at
it here and you game yeah, playing

1024
01:09:16.279 --> 01:09:18.720
game, Yeah, come see me
on my couch. Yeah. It was

1025
01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:21.880
just stuff like that was crazy,
Like you want to big like Showtime and

1026
01:09:21.920 --> 01:09:25.399
here's the cabinet, right, sounds
crazy, Well, the sorted said for

1027
01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:29.720
when you're making these games now next
next gen sort of reports of old games

1028
01:09:29.720 --> 01:09:32.079
and sort of want to polish all
the not glitches because they weren't glitches.

1029
01:09:32.119 --> 01:09:34.479
They were sort of like what made
the game, like the Nixon dents that

1030
01:09:34.479 --> 01:09:38.880
made it like a big yeah waiting
big game and not like not like a

1031
01:09:38.920 --> 01:09:43.319
super revival experience. And it's I
think there's high really strong desire for people

1032
01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:45.119
who maybe didn't grow up with that
game. When you're look at human and

1033
01:09:45.119 --> 01:09:46.359
to be like, well, if
you can't really shove a dude, he's

1034
01:09:46.359 --> 01:09:48.000
about to dunk on your face.
If you did that in real life,

1035
01:09:48.039 --> 01:09:50.159
Like you get a knee and the
a knee and the nose and you'd be

1036
01:09:50.199 --> 01:09:53.279
dead. Yeah, it's like well
no, but like you could do it.

1037
01:09:53.319 --> 01:09:55.439
You'll gains if it's not even you're
the anyone who was buying this part

1038
01:09:55.439 --> 01:09:57.920
of styles purposes and we're like,
well, fuck these guys they rooted to

1039
01:09:57.920 --> 01:09:59.439
be at gym. I don't want
to play this game. So was that

1040
01:09:59.560 --> 01:10:01.319
something like but grow up? Did
you guess that they grew up in Chicago?

1041
01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:06.680
Were you like very aware that Midway
was there kind of making games that

1042
01:10:06.680 --> 01:10:09.560
there was a By the time I
was in like high school, I was

1043
01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:12.239
pretty aware of but it like grow
I mean like when I was like in

1044
01:10:12.319 --> 01:10:15.880
like arcade times, I sort of
had no like history context for was three.

1045
01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:20.399
It was like yeah so I wasn't
born. Yeah, but like you

1046
01:10:20.720 --> 01:10:24.840
didn't have an awareness of the brand
stuff. It was just you went to

1047
01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:27.760
the arcades, you enjoyed the games, and I like, you know,

1048
01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:30.159
the brand was NBA Jam. Not
necessarily that Midway made NBA Jam, but

1049
01:10:30.199 --> 01:10:34.000
you knew they made NFL Blitz.
You knew they they they had that sports

1050
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:38.760
pedigree, and so the moment you
saw another game like in that line your

1051
01:10:38.760 --> 01:10:42.199
friends had probably told you about it, and then well there wasn't like arcade.

1052
01:10:42.199 --> 01:10:45.720
I mean, there wasn't arcade criticism
in the way there was that we

1053
01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:48.159
now had like no metacritics, and
so you know, like it was a

1054
01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:53.720
stand up. It was the cerbat
it because we're not going to be because

1055
01:10:53.920 --> 01:10:57.800
you didn't have to watch them to
start slotting in sixty dollars putting twenty five

1056
01:10:57.800 --> 01:11:00.720
cents you hate it, boom I
walk. It was still fun, you

1057
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:02.800
know, so the but I mean
like it was the stamp of credibility that

1058
01:11:02.840 --> 01:11:05.239
wasn't necessarily stand of the game would
be awesome, like you we would give

1059
01:11:05.279 --> 01:11:09.279
it a couple of horns, you
would give it that it was there,

1060
01:11:09.439 --> 01:11:11.439
right, yeah, and then you
find out that it's actually like, oh,

1061
01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:14.720
it's like the major games company in
the town that you're from. It's

1062
01:11:14.720 --> 01:11:16.479
a let's sort of fun out there
really close dag I said, everyone's in

1063
01:11:16.520 --> 01:11:19.159
some warehouse in la you know,
get these things cranked out of there.

1064
01:11:20.159 --> 01:11:24.520
I mean there was like a while
there for me when when more combat was

1065
01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:27.760
really getting big, like m K
one MK two, you always hear about

1066
01:11:27.760 --> 01:11:32.479
an arcade called diversions oh yeah,
they would do the tests because that was

1067
01:11:34.680 --> 01:11:40.159
ho was in Chicago, so we
would get like the different arcades in the

1068
01:11:40.239 --> 01:11:44.560
Chicago suburbs stuff like would get those
versions updated regularly, but like I would

1069
01:11:44.560 --> 01:11:46.720
get there's no texts or anything back
so then but sold just be like your

1070
01:11:46.720 --> 01:11:50.079
friends would tell you, Like,
dude, like Chuck and Cheese has got

1071
01:11:50.119 --> 01:11:53.680
like they haven't they have a test
version of Mortal Combat three. It's like

1072
01:11:54.439 --> 01:11:59.039
you shut the folk ups. It's
six. Would get on my mike.

1073
01:11:59.439 --> 01:12:02.760
It's like back before there was no
way to like verify rumors and stuff like

1074
01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:06.920
that. Like the biggest thing was
in Mortal Kombats either two or three,

1075
01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:11.720
but it was that when the one
more Sonja and like is chained up in

1076
01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:15.119
the in the back like shop and
they're like that there's a there's a there's

1077
01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:17.239
a way to break her out,
right, And I remember like the people

1078
01:12:17.319 --> 01:12:19.920
at the arcade telling us, oh, yeah, you know, we got

1079
01:12:19.960 --> 01:12:23.239
another version coming, so day you're
gonna goble the break her out. But

1080
01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:25.920
like that was not true. But
those versions you didn't know, like there

1081
01:12:25.960 --> 01:12:28.720
was always so many roots like that
was one of my favorite parts of going

1082
01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:31.159
to the arcade was seeing like the
new test version something news that ended up

1083
01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:35.920
being like the most devious part of
of like Midways corner sucking strategy because you

1084
01:12:35.960 --> 01:12:39.680
think about like m K two,
like, after all, you know,

1085
01:12:39.880 --> 01:12:42.199
this was the rise of the Internet
was happening at the same time. Ye

1086
01:12:42.319 --> 01:12:45.279
people, you're absolutely posting like here's
all the fatalities or you know, like

1087
01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:47.760
I was at this point. I
was still in high school, but I

1088
01:12:47.800 --> 01:12:51.560
just wasn't going all that much.
Uh there was a K two machine and

1089
01:12:51.600 --> 01:12:55.079
the pizza hut, so I would
just like get on usenet, like look

1090
01:12:55.079 --> 01:12:58.560
at these lists of moons, but
like I'm gonna check all this shit out,

1091
01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:01.000
print it out. Actually knew you
would. You would go, what

1092
01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:05.680
character am I going to go to
the arcade with and play as and no,

1093
01:13:06.279 --> 01:13:11.199
memorize all their moves that I can
when I finally beat somebody, do

1094
01:13:11.319 --> 01:13:14.560
the fatality, do the compos whatever. And then they went and in one

1095
01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:18.760
of the revision updates changed all the
fatalities right because they had all gotten out

1096
01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:23.399
there. I was like, I
was like ed John's big like we're this

1097
01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:27.680
is what we're doing. Yeah,
I remember it just being heartbreaking. It

1098
01:13:27.840 --> 01:13:30.640
was like the worst of you're just
like why would you do that? Diversions.

1099
01:13:30.760 --> 01:13:36.079
Diversions was like for me in the
time, like that was like when

1100
01:13:36.079 --> 01:13:40.239
you're ready actually to like step your
game up, that's where you go.

1101
01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:44.399
And so there's actually a couple of
cats and still work on World Combat to

1102
01:13:44.439 --> 01:13:48.239
this day that we're like the pros
at Diversions, right, Brian le Baron,

1103
01:13:48.600 --> 01:13:53.279
Paula Garcia and Eddie Fair and the
and Lex too, and I don't

1104
01:13:53.279 --> 01:13:56.680
know Lex's last name is, excuse
me, right, but those cats were

1105
01:13:56.680 --> 01:14:01.319
the pros, right, and those
guys actually we're playing arcade games and we're

1106
01:14:01.359 --> 01:14:04.880
the best, right, Like you
step up the machine, you play against

1107
01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:08.600
one of those guys, and it
was like it's almost like Tron, like

1108
01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:11.840
I hate too, right, It's
like you're playing against those guys. Yeah,

1109
01:14:11.880 --> 01:14:17.920
full circles and yeah, and like
if you play against one of those

1110
01:14:17.960 --> 01:14:21.000
just needs your ass kicks, right, And those guys were the ultimate.

1111
01:14:21.039 --> 01:14:24.920
And you know what's so great is
that Ed and John right when they were

1112
01:14:24.920 --> 01:14:28.640
doing that stuff, they brought those
guys into the Midway family, you know.

1113
01:14:29.039 --> 01:14:30.920
And so those guys still to this
day, you know, work on

1114
01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:35.920
Mortal Kombat. And that's actually what
makes you know Chicago game development for me

1115
01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:41.079
at least, like so still heartwarming, right, It's like those cats still

1116
01:14:41.239 --> 01:14:45.560
contribute to the game and are still
a part of it and still care and

1117
01:14:45.720 --> 01:14:48.279
have heart into one. There's a
lot of loyalty. Yeah, what Mortal

1118
01:14:48.359 --> 01:14:51.359
Kombat is as a brand as a
franchise, right, Well, how did

1119
01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:56.960
you get your tram there midway playing
jam? I mean that was my big

1120
01:14:57.000 --> 01:15:00.279
thing, right, So, but
that was one of the last cats that

1121
01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:06.039
like, yeah, I called Mark
Tamel like twenty six times on the phone

1122
01:15:06.199 --> 01:15:13.439
number back then. Actually it was
it was one when they would roll the

1123
01:15:13.479 --> 01:15:15.560
credits eventually, right, and it
was like lead Programmer was the first credit

1124
01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:18.720
Mark Tamel And like so I like, you know, I knew they were

1125
01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:23.560
in Chicago because the little commas.
It's like four on one Midway, right,

1126
01:15:23.600 --> 01:15:25.279
And they gave me the number,
and so I called, and I

1127
01:15:25.359 --> 01:15:28.720
called, and they call it.
I called twenty six times and finally I

1128
01:15:28.760 --> 01:15:30.199
got a phone call back. Like
I was just I just want to do

1129
01:15:30.279 --> 01:15:33.640
an internship, right, I know, right, like old school stalker style,

1130
01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:39.800
right, like kind of weird.
Exactly, this is yeah pre like

1131
01:15:40.159 --> 01:15:43.399
you start six nine pre anyway,
Yeah, exactly, you earn. You

1132
01:15:43.439 --> 01:15:45.560
earned it, like you you were
going. You filled up it. You

1133
01:15:45.640 --> 01:15:51.000
filled up the tape in the answering
machine exactly. And I remember the guy

1134
01:15:51.039 --> 01:15:54.760
that brought me in. He looked
at me and he's like, you've worked

1135
01:15:54.760 --> 01:15:59.720
in an arcade. Uh, you
have run a small video game fa hu

1136
01:15:59.800 --> 01:16:02.359
sie you know, pre game e
FAQs and all that kind of stuff.

1137
01:16:02.439 --> 01:16:08.600
Right, He's like, you're completely
unqualified to work here. And he's like,

1138
01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:12.920
but rips up my resume in front
of my face him a little suite.

1139
01:16:13.479 --> 01:16:15.680
I feel good. He's like he's
like, he's like, Markamal wants

1140
01:16:15.680 --> 01:16:18.680
you to work here because you've been
persistent about it, and so we're gonna

1141
01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:23.720
give you shot. And that to
me was like the same thing with like

1142
01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:27.760
Brian Paulo and Eddie and lets right, it was like I will do anything.

1143
01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:30.880
I absolutely possibly come in. It's
an amazing story. Who knew that

1144
01:16:30.920 --> 01:16:39.800
faithful decision would eventually close midway down
right right, say some Jersey, Hi

1145
01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:45.640
Pop, that's gonna let the plague
in. It's just like into the India

1146
01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:54.239
time. Everyone talking to him.
It was a hard warming story. I

1147
01:16:54.279 --> 01:16:57.479
mean, it's like that made that. That was amazing. And then that

1148
01:16:57.560 --> 01:17:05.199
was amazing. You brought that down
real I'm so pissed. You want to

1149
01:17:05.479 --> 01:17:10.119
out, no, fuck you come
on out. But yeah, I mean,

1150
01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:13.359
you know, when I was kind
of first getting started on my first

1151
01:17:13.439 --> 01:17:15.800
year, like I started in a
print magazine, the kind of went nowhere.

1152
01:17:15.600 --> 01:17:20.119
Which print magazine it's called Blaster,
last about three issues and then I

1153
01:17:20.119 --> 01:17:24.640
guess the same story, yeah,
kind of the story was which I was

1154
01:17:24.640 --> 01:17:28.439
only able to verify. Someone allegedly
that the the guys that started the magazine

1155
01:17:28.680 --> 01:17:31.920
who had gotten a bunch of investment
from the Sound Blaster people, ran off

1156
01:17:31.960 --> 01:17:38.800
with a Blaster sixteen. Remember,
So you know, I learned to be

1157
01:17:38.800 --> 01:17:41.560
bitter when I was about nineteen,
I got out my first magazine job.

1158
01:17:41.600 --> 01:17:45.279
I was a man fun this business
and and I ended up I was in

1159
01:17:45.359 --> 01:17:48.239
school for a little bit, which
I needed because I was the worst writer

1160
01:17:48.319 --> 01:17:50.279
in the world. Where I was
writing this magazine. It is just like

1161
01:17:50.319 --> 01:17:56.279
I've just had no business even having
a job at that point. But then

1162
01:17:56.479 --> 01:18:00.319
there was an arcade show in Reno, and I heard that Mortal Kombat three

1163
01:18:00.439 --> 01:18:03.800
was going to be there, and
I was like, I'm dropping out of

1164
01:18:03.840 --> 01:18:09.079
this class and this school stuff and
going to play MK three and hang out

1165
01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:13.279
with the game and former guys and
we're going to drink and reno and play

1166
01:18:13.840 --> 01:18:16.159
MK three. So yeah, it
was a super early test version. It

1167
01:18:16.199 --> 01:18:18.439
was like that. It was like
the first, you know, it wasn't

1168
01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:20.439
it was the first. It was
like the first time I like saw like

1169
01:18:20.720 --> 01:18:24.199
Ed kind of get him and talk
like actually back and see. Yes in

1170
01:18:24.279 --> 01:18:28.640
the day they had Ed and John
signing autographs at the midway, but yeah,

1171
01:18:28.680 --> 01:18:31.680
and it was it was like the
only and also like they had like

1172
01:18:31.720 --> 01:18:36.880
Dan Possina like like some of the
characters from Mortal Kombat there like in costume

1173
01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:41.560
doing stuff, and you know,
it's just like this is pardiculous, like

1174
01:18:41.560 --> 01:18:44.199
like even then, like even as
much of like an MK fan as I

1175
01:18:44.239 --> 01:18:45.800
was back then, I couldn't pull
the trigger on I'm gonna wait in line

1176
01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:48.239
and get some autographs, right,
It was just it was too it was

1177
01:18:48.359 --> 01:18:51.199
too far gone. But you'll do
it now. Yeah, now you know

1178
01:18:51.199 --> 01:18:58.279
we're email address and home phone,
you guys. Weirdly enough, they actually

1179
01:18:58.279 --> 01:19:01.720
sent out an autograph to lit the
graph for like MK Deadly Alliance. That's

1180
01:19:01.720 --> 01:19:05.720
like a Ed Boon signed frame thing
and it's totally like the first thing I've

1181
01:19:05.720 --> 01:19:11.600
moved into my house, like hanging
above the fireplace like cool. It's like

1182
01:19:11.600 --> 01:19:13.920
it's kind of kind of like a
joke of time, but it's totally still

1183
01:19:13.920 --> 01:19:18.399
there five years later. It's so
funny because like all those all those cats,

1184
01:19:18.439 --> 01:19:24.000
it's like whenever you're around them,
it's like, you know, it's

1185
01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:26.359
a weird thing. I don't think
a lot of people get in the industry

1186
01:19:26.439 --> 01:19:29.800
because, at least for me,
right, you look up to these guys,

1187
01:19:30.119 --> 01:19:31.840
you know. Yeah, I mean, it's just like these are the

1188
01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:36.119
game gods, you know, Eugene
Jarvis, Smarts from out Ed Boone,

1189
01:19:36.199 --> 01:19:41.720
John Tobias. I mean, these
guys are the game gods, you know.

1190
01:19:41.880 --> 01:19:44.479
And and to be around them,
listen to them talk and then be

1191
01:19:44.520 --> 01:19:47.359
friends with them and everything, it's
like you just learned so much, you

1192
01:19:47.399 --> 01:19:50.880
know. And and just like every
single day to be able to work with

1193
01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:56.680
all those guys and hear them say
everything from like a funny joke to actually

1194
01:19:56.800 --> 01:20:00.960
like a good nugget for game design
is is just priceless. Yeah, you

1195
01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:04.880
know, and it's something that you
don't get nowadays. In Gada, I

1196
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:08.680
was gonna say, like like so, I mean, obviously those guys were

1197
01:20:09.039 --> 01:20:13.000
of a generation. Yeah, but
who are the who are the George Gomans

1198
01:20:13.079 --> 01:20:15.399
is a guy Actually I should throw
in there as well. I didn't,

1199
01:20:15.439 --> 01:20:18.159
but I should. Yeah, who
are the new game guys? Like?

1200
01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:21.520
Like who matters? I mean like
everyone kind of looks to the guys that

1201
01:20:21.560 --> 01:20:25.960
are getting a lot of a lot
of attention from the press and stuff like

1202
01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:30.359
that. You know, guys like
political Zenski Shaper. It was like,

1203
01:20:30.399 --> 01:20:34.239
do you think that they fill that
same role or has a game development changed

1204
01:20:34.279 --> 01:20:38.560
so much that they're they're really you
can't just go to one guy, I

1205
01:20:38.640 --> 01:20:41.760
think I think for that for that
decade, Like I would say, each

1206
01:20:41.800 --> 01:20:45.880
decade, it's a new group,
Like I think this decade probably not Jnomy

1207
01:20:45.960 --> 01:20:47.760
blow. You know the twist of
pixel guys. I mean there's a new

1208
01:20:47.840 --> 01:20:51.560
school sort of you know, decade
of people that are inspirational. Now can

1209
01:20:51.560 --> 01:20:54.920
they well, I mean the real
important thing about the guys in mid was

1210
01:20:54.960 --> 01:20:57.399
that they kept doing it. They
kept killing it for years and years and

1211
01:20:57.479 --> 01:21:00.560
years and decades. And so if
the new guys continue on, clipy Be

1212
01:21:00.680 --> 01:21:02.840
is a perfect example, like,
so as it keeps cranking up fantastic games

1213
01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:06.560
and people will Yeah, he'll he'll
still be notable and buddy of the new

1214
01:21:06.560 --> 01:21:09.720
guys. I think the thing then
is that they were making I mean,

1215
01:21:09.760 --> 01:21:13.600
like in terms of game design and
innovation. At that point, making blockbuster

1216
01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:16.039
games was a design innovation. It's
over like making games and a pee of

1217
01:21:16.039 --> 01:21:19.319
the basses and can speak to everybody
and being compelling both in a quarter based

1218
01:21:19.319 --> 01:21:21.680
way and also in the home based
way. It was like was its own

1219
01:21:21.720 --> 01:21:27.239
seat of sort of platform based innovation. And now the question is are people

1220
01:21:27.279 --> 01:21:30.640
making blockbusters the innovators and the game
gods or is it Jonathan Blows and people

1221
01:21:30.640 --> 01:21:33.479
making Indian games by themselves and small
teams of five? Is it the fucking

1222
01:21:33.560 --> 01:21:36.000
angry birds physics engine? Dude?
Like? Who is you know, who

1223
01:21:36.119 --> 01:21:39.439
is the guy? Really? Who's
right? It's so it's so funny now

1224
01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:43.880
because it's like it all comes down
to who's making the money, right,

1225
01:21:44.279 --> 01:21:46.279
And that's what's getting like, you
know, because the video industry is blown

1226
01:21:46.359 --> 01:21:48.800
up so much, right, it's
like, all right, so who's making

1227
01:21:48.840 --> 01:21:54.399
the money? Honestly, dude,
down like and those guys like bam bam

1228
01:21:54.399 --> 01:21:57.319
bam. Right. But at the
same time, I mean, like back

1229
01:21:57.359 --> 01:22:00.359
in the day when we were doing
it. It's like those guys with the

1230
01:22:00.359 --> 01:22:04.399
game Gods was still small enough that
you actually cared and and they could give

1231
01:22:04.479 --> 01:22:10.239
you a lot of those very multifunctional
right, you know, persons like the

1232
01:22:10.279 --> 01:22:13.840
guys that were kind of looking up
to now as these game gods, like

1233
01:22:14.399 --> 01:22:17.199
in a lot of cases, aren't
they just really good managers or are the

1234
01:22:17.279 --> 01:22:21.600
true visionary? That's that's why they
being the classic game track they've had a

1235
01:22:21.640 --> 01:22:25.600
GDC. This series has been so
fascinating to watch because you get people like

1236
01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:31.920
Jordan mcner breaking down making Prince of
Persia and how her rotascoped, the animation,

1237
01:22:32.640 --> 01:22:39.800
shooting his brother jumping right, spending
eleven thousand dollars on a camera and

1238
01:22:39.840 --> 01:22:42.920
then immediately sending it back because there
was a thirty day guarantee because he couldn't

1239
01:22:42.960 --> 01:22:47.560
afford you and that and that stuff, and watching that contrasted with you know,

1240
01:22:47.560 --> 01:22:50.800
a talk with Clue with Lazinski,
It's all changed so much, and

1241
01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:54.800
it's not even the fault of those
guys. These teams have scoped out to

1242
01:22:54.880 --> 01:22:57.800
such a degree it's become a team
sport, right, and likes become full

1243
01:22:57.880 --> 01:23:00.800
and it's always been a team effort
but it's not become a thing where you're

1244
01:23:00.800 --> 01:23:02.199
looking at you're looking for Phil Jackson
and Michael Jordan, right, you're looking

1245
01:23:02.239 --> 01:23:09.760
for the guy who's coaching a crew
of people nice Chicago. So it's right,

1246
01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:12.039
don't leave me. Hang, I
didn't know. I thought you're gonna

1247
01:23:12.039 --> 01:23:15.760
punch me in the face. But
at this point, But it doesn't mean

1248
01:23:15.800 --> 01:23:17.359
they're not visionaries, because it's probably
guys who were in that first meeting and

1249
01:23:17.399 --> 01:23:20.319
then they're in the last meeting where
the ship in the game and that guidance

1250
01:23:20.319 --> 01:23:24.840
along the process isn't important. It's
what keeps in the street going and with

1251
01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:28.159
things being as there, every game
is thirty million dollars. It's the guys

1252
01:23:28.159 --> 01:23:30.079
who you're willing to bet on,
right, it's the guys who you're gonna

1253
01:23:30.119 --> 01:23:31.439
bet the pharm on every That's why
like the guys that do it like cross

1254
01:23:31.520 --> 01:23:35.159
Eras are amazing because it's like you
gotta get like so they when it was

1255
01:23:35.199 --> 01:23:39.600
like just three people on a team
and all was was mechanics and controls and

1256
01:23:39.640 --> 01:23:41.920
they can do it then and then
you got guys like Ed Boone. We're

1257
01:23:42.039 --> 01:23:44.920
leading now a team of just huge
team just getting it done. Still and

1258
01:23:45.039 --> 01:23:48.279
that whole f and time, right, he goes from just programming, like

1259
01:23:48.399 --> 01:23:53.039
doing code, like picking out frames
of animation years, so now we're just

1260
01:23:53.079 --> 01:23:56.680
drecting a team of hundreds of people
or however big it is to deliver the

1261
01:23:56.720 --> 01:24:00.840
same the division the same way he
wants it done. That's why he's like

1262
01:24:00.880 --> 01:24:04.039
super amazing and all this group of
like superstars. It's like, I think

1263
01:24:04.119 --> 01:24:08.119
the small the small guys, I
think are the ones who are making huge

1264
01:24:08.119 --> 01:24:10.640
innovations and games. I think that
the guys that we're talking about, these

1265
01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:13.399
sort of team leader guys, are
making huge innovations in entertainment. Those are

1266
01:24:13.399 --> 01:24:16.000
the guys who we're seeing as the
leaders of making experiences a speak to anyone,

1267
01:24:16.039 --> 01:24:20.119
but the guys behind fucking connect It's
like, what that's not that's not

1268
01:24:20.159 --> 01:24:27.079
really like a huge game exactly,
Like that's a crazy that's a crazy year

1269
01:24:27.119 --> 01:24:30.279
exactly. But but you know,
but the guy's making these the you know,

1270
01:24:30.279 --> 01:24:32.600
an iPhone game like the thirty that
like fourteen year old kid who finally

1271
01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:36.640
toppled uh and took over the top
of the iPhone chart with his like physics

1272
01:24:36.720 --> 01:24:41.680
gaming he made. That's pretty sure, And so that's the thing where it's

1273
01:24:41.680 --> 01:24:44.319
like that kid's making a cool little
game that he's not making necessarily, he's

1274
01:24:44.399 --> 01:24:45.960
entertainment experience can become a movie in
two years. At the same time,

1275
01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:50.840
though, they're really freaking me out
of it. Yeah, I'm not fourteen

1276
01:24:50.920 --> 01:24:55.960
and I'm not one that like that. It's like, is it that much

1277
01:24:56.079 --> 01:25:02.359
the Wild West that exactly zero experience
can do that? And then a certain

1278
01:25:02.399 --> 01:25:06.079
platforms. Absolutely, I think.
I think it's awesome to get me wrong.

1279
01:25:06.199 --> 01:25:09.560
Right. At the same time,
it's also scary, right because it's

1280
01:25:09.600 --> 01:25:12.680
like, you know, here,
I am and everybody right that, like

1281
01:25:12.800 --> 01:25:15.439
have worked in the game industry for
a very long time, and a fourteen

1282
01:25:15.479 --> 01:25:17.439
year old kid comes along. It's
like, hey, yo, I just

1283
01:25:17.920 --> 01:25:23.159
make yes and that's awesome, due
and get him to make the next Tronta.

1284
01:25:23.279 --> 01:25:28.000
I mean, I think that's I
think that's I think I think that's

1285
01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:31.000
what a Watta was talking about right
where he was like, it's about quality,

1286
01:25:31.039 --> 01:25:36.079
and I think that what he was
saying got misconstrued and probably like twisted

1287
01:25:36.119 --> 01:25:40.159
the way they wanted to be.
But I think he was like, don't

1288
01:25:40.199 --> 01:25:45.560
forget that it's really important to make
high quality entertainment. That's what makes people

1289
01:25:45.880 --> 01:25:49.239
like and have I have liked and
has expanded our industry the way it is.

1290
01:25:49.840 --> 01:25:54.119
It's it's all about high quality entertainment. So don't forget that. Yeah,

1291
01:25:54.199 --> 01:25:56.359
I think it was like all same, like even though the ninety nine

1292
01:25:56.359 --> 01:26:00.760
cent games are seeming like them and
the freemium and freedom Lay and Austin like,

1293
01:26:00.880 --> 01:26:02.279
don't forget you should be able to
charge for things that you're proud of,

1294
01:26:02.720 --> 01:26:08.760
Like don't people will pay for good
entertainment that you're proud and but also

1295
01:26:08.800 --> 01:26:11.600
they have to be you know,
polished to the max. That's the Japanese

1296
01:26:11.600 --> 01:26:14.600
Montrose, you know, like they
spend all that time making sure that you

1297
01:26:14.640 --> 01:26:16.079
know, everything is covered. And
I think that was kind of his thing,

1298
01:26:16.159 --> 01:26:19.920
was like you should be able to
charge good money for good entertainment.

1299
01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:24.079
But that's such a platform agnostic argument, right, That's that's the weird thing

1300
01:26:24.079 --> 01:26:26.199
now is And Cliff had a slap
the day and his talk where he was

1301
01:26:26.239 --> 01:26:29.279
showing I think he stole it from
he credited he stole it from somebody.

1302
01:26:29.239 --> 01:26:30.680
Slabe was like, you know,
in nineteen ninety two, here are the

1303
01:26:30.680 --> 01:26:33.680
platforms people are competing on. It. It was like share, I mean

1304
01:26:33.720 --> 01:26:36.319
like it was like three or four
platforms just like you see, here's what's

1305
01:26:36.319 --> 01:26:40.680
going on now, And it was
like seventy different platforms where you had like

1306
01:26:40.720 --> 01:26:44.079
Microsoft, and Microsoft was Xbox,
Xbox from sixty connect and it was like

1307
01:26:44.119 --> 01:26:45.079
all these branches. And he says, basically, at the end of the

1308
01:26:45.119 --> 01:26:47.239
day, the problem we have is
that the while West, because a game

1309
01:26:47.520 --> 01:26:50.479
like Angry Birds can come out on
the iPhone, everyone in the concentrators like,

1310
01:26:50.479 --> 01:26:51.960
well, fuck that, we don't
need to worry about that. Shit,

1311
01:26:53.039 --> 01:26:57.079
that's its own, like sort of
segregated, right, And then it's

1312
01:26:57.119 --> 01:26:59.560
just like but now and now we
all rushed towards that, and goes,

1313
01:26:59.560 --> 01:27:00.920
so what is that doing? We
should make that Everyone jumps all right,

1314
01:27:00.960 --> 01:27:02.920
But it's different. It's not supposed
to be the same thing. And what

1315
01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:04.720
I think of water I was talking
about is like, you should be able

1316
01:27:04.760 --> 01:27:08.920
to charge sixty dollars for a console
game that's twenty hours, but it doesn't

1317
01:27:08.960 --> 01:27:11.680
mean you have to make it forty
hours to push away from Yeah, you're

1318
01:27:11.680 --> 01:27:14.119
a two second experience over again,
it's just a different thing, like,

1319
01:27:14.199 --> 01:27:15.560
embrace what you're making for the medium
you're making it for. I think that

1320
01:27:15.760 --> 01:27:19.000
like for me, personally, the
thing that I'm most excited about all mobile

1321
01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:23.520
and social because everyone's sorry about that
and like, oh social's big bubble,

1322
01:27:23.720 --> 01:27:26.920
Like oh mobile, this mooble that
right. The thing that I'm most excited

1323
01:27:26.920 --> 01:27:30.960
about with everyone that's doing mobile and
social is that, whether they realize it

1324
01:27:31.079 --> 01:27:43.159
or not, they're driving people into
the video and so like exactly, That's

1325
01:27:43.159 --> 01:27:45.960
what I'm saying, Like, so
people are so threatened or like should we

1326
01:27:45.039 --> 01:27:47.720
be doing this? Should be mean? And that, like, please let

1327
01:27:47.760 --> 01:27:51.960
everyone do what they're doing, because
you know what, like it's eventually those

1328
01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:57.159
guys are just getting into mobile and
they're just getting into like social, They're

1329
01:27:57.159 --> 01:28:00.560
gonna get into what the a lot
of us are making right where like the

1330
01:28:00.720 --> 01:28:05.520
twenty thirty hour experiences. So I'm
like a huge fan of all mobile and

1331
01:28:05.600 --> 01:28:12.279
social. Please grab everyone in the
entire world and bring them into buying video

1332
01:28:12.319 --> 01:28:17.479
game buying councils. Like absolutely,
I completely embrace that. What people get

1333
01:28:17.520 --> 01:28:24.479
I think gonna get freaked out.
No one wants. The thing is that

1334
01:28:24.920 --> 01:28:29.359
the first publishing is gonna stop and
just stay back and take a really holistic

1335
01:28:29.359 --> 01:28:30.439
approach. It's gonna be the one
of the wins, because right now they're

1336
01:28:30.439 --> 01:28:32.479
all like being very reactive, like, ya, this is making so much.

1337
01:28:34.159 --> 01:28:36.880
Let's there if we if we don't
have a Dragon Age Facebook game,

1338
01:28:36.960 --> 01:28:41.800
this whole thing's umed. Yeah,
And then they're doing they're like that cost

1339
01:28:41.880 --> 01:28:45.079
us four million dollars. Yeah,
like what are we getting back from nobody

1340
01:28:45.600 --> 01:28:48.039
building? And you know, are
they really looking at it in terms of

1341
01:28:48.079 --> 01:28:51.520
like we're making a game, or
they're looking at it in terms we're building

1342
01:28:51.560 --> 01:28:59.680
awareness. And that's honestly one of
the big big Facebook stuff or like mobile

1343
01:28:59.720 --> 01:29:02.279
stuff, iPhone stuff and things like
that. I remember there's some sort of

1344
01:29:02.279 --> 01:29:06.439
like rock Bands rock Icons game,
which is in no way similar to the

1345
01:29:06.520 --> 01:29:12.119
jewel It was sort of like an
outsource thing that MTV Games was putting together.

1346
01:29:12.159 --> 01:29:14.560
That's some that's some nice thing for
that was actually it had rock Band

1347
01:29:14.600 --> 01:29:16.640
Network tracks some of like undiscovered bands
as the background audio, so as you

1348
01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:19.439
were matching icons, you kirk some
music and could fight out about some groups.

1349
01:29:19.439 --> 01:29:21.239
But it was it was just sort
of like, oh, there's always

1350
01:29:21.239 --> 01:29:24.720
some rockman udicons coming on the screen
and match them off. You think about

1351
01:29:24.760 --> 01:29:26.319
the game Rap Band, same thing
with the you know, we did the

1352
01:29:26.319 --> 01:29:28.680
thing with Pepsi where We're on the
caps of a bunch of Pepsi bottles across

1353
01:29:28.680 --> 01:29:30.359
the country. It's like that is
good brand awareness, but it doesn't mean

1354
01:29:30.399 --> 01:29:33.399
that you can develop a shitty game
with good brand awareness and have to be

1355
01:29:33.399 --> 01:29:36.560
a compelling experience that people want to
play for more than five minutes, which

1356
01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:39.960
is the danger, which is the
danger when people start the gig. Well,

1357
01:29:39.960 --> 01:29:42.199
Facebook games are something to need to
worry about because they're in a different

1358
01:29:42.199 --> 01:29:45.119
area where it's like yeah, but
they have the hook mechanic where people are

1359
01:29:45.119 --> 01:29:46.960
coming to them. And I play
the Ship out of every pop Got game,

1360
01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:50.520
Like I don't want to play Zula
Revenge all the way at the end,

1361
01:29:50.520 --> 01:29:53.039
but I played it all the way
Yeah, and even though I had

1362
01:29:53.079 --> 01:29:55.800
to take a sick down or to
finish it on like cold Medicine, and

1363
01:29:55.800 --> 01:29:58.319
I just played it till it was
done. But it's like that game as

1364
01:29:58.319 --> 01:30:00.880
Hookie, as Ship, I played
the I played until I was finished.

1365
01:30:00.039 --> 01:30:04.319
Yeah. But like PopCap is different
from and their games are different from like

1366
01:30:04.600 --> 01:30:09.680
wood Zingers totally yeah, you know, like Cityville, right, like it

1367
01:30:09.800 --> 01:30:14.079
finally took someone to like Adam or
Days slap me across the face is like

1368
01:30:14.439 --> 01:30:17.039
why are you playing this game as
much as you are, And I'm like,

1369
01:30:17.640 --> 01:30:20.199
I don't know, compulsion, you
know, it's I was. I

1370
01:30:20.239 --> 01:30:25.000
interviewed drag the dragon Us creator Jujihori
a couple of weeks ago, and I

1371
01:30:25.039 --> 01:30:27.319
asked him, you know, what
are you playing right now? Like O?

1372
01:30:27.439 --> 01:30:29.760
Then you know, drag Us kind
of consumes your life and doing anything

1373
01:30:29.760 --> 01:30:33.199
else. It's like I'm addicted to
Cityville. Yeah, And he was like,

1374
01:30:33.319 --> 01:30:35.800
I'm not going to tell you that
what my Facebook and name is because

1375
01:30:35.800 --> 01:30:39.439
I don't want everyone to add any
but I he was, you know,

1376
01:30:39.880 --> 01:30:43.039
but I think I think the thing
is like the gamers and some developers get

1377
01:30:43.039 --> 01:30:45.359
scared because they think, well that's
where everyone's going, we should go that

1378
01:30:45.399 --> 01:30:47.560
way, and we're not gonna be
able to make the games that we want

1379
01:30:47.600 --> 01:30:51.279
to make anymore. But every you
know, if people come in, they

1380
01:30:51.279 --> 01:30:55.319
will maybe they'll play the games that
we talk about in their passion about but

1381
01:30:55.359 --> 01:30:58.600
maybe they won't. But it's not
like it's not all going to disappear.

1382
01:30:58.960 --> 01:31:01.680
Just because it was doing really well
Farmans doing well, for tear Bells doing

1383
01:31:01.720 --> 01:31:05.319
well doesn't mean that dragon Age and
Massive Fat are going to disappear. And

1384
01:31:05.359 --> 01:31:09.680
I think that's that's the knee jrik
reaction is thinking because of those games are

1385
01:31:09.680 --> 01:31:13.760
getting popular in the attention that the
games that you grew up on are going

1386
01:31:13.800 --> 01:31:15.399
to exist. I mean again,
I'll say this right, Like the huge

1387
01:31:15.439 --> 01:31:20.479
divide is that there are so many
people intimidate and scared it scared scared it

1388
01:31:20.840 --> 01:31:30.560
scared by yeah sorry yea, these
like Ioax, Android and Facebook is like,

1389
01:31:30.840 --> 01:31:31.960
oh, what are we gonna do? And the entire industy is gonna

1390
01:31:32.039 --> 01:31:35.520
change? Like, no, you
don't realize that for everyone that's actually playing

1391
01:31:35.560 --> 01:31:39.359
your game, they're also playing console
games, and you know what, you

1392
01:31:39.399 --> 01:31:43.039
should look at it as a blessing
that everyone else that they're bringing in.

1393
01:31:44.039 --> 01:31:45.720
If you only get a small fraction, that's great. I don't know,

1394
01:31:46.520 --> 01:31:51.680
because eventually it's like watching YouTube videos
and then watching a movie, right,

1395
01:31:51.720 --> 01:31:56.479
and it's like, eventually these guys
are gonna getting into the news. Seeing

1396
01:31:57.079 --> 01:32:00.439
it really is kind of the beau
of thing about how all the stuff is

1397
01:32:00.840 --> 01:32:03.159
changing, and it's you know,
it's it's It's been interesting for me over

1398
01:32:03.199 --> 01:32:09.920
the years because as mobile rose as
trip Hawkins and digital Chocolate kind of got

1399
01:32:09.960 --> 01:32:14.680
out there back you know, pre
iPhone and started spending all this money on

1400
01:32:14.680 --> 01:32:16.920
on just mobile development, and you
know brew and all this plug J two

1401
01:32:16.920 --> 01:32:19.279
and me and all that stuff.
Uh, you know, you have a

1402
01:32:19.279 --> 01:32:23.479
businessman come to you someday ago.
Why aren't we covering this stuff? Right?

1403
01:32:24.000 --> 01:32:28.359
And you say, well, because
the audience that we're currently catering to

1404
01:32:29.279 --> 01:32:32.760
is not necessarily interested in this stuff. And also the audience that's playing this

1405
01:32:32.800 --> 01:32:38.840
stuff doesn't read our side. But
yeah, exactly, it's like you know,

1406
01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:43.119
who who who out there wants to
read reviews of ninety nine cent black

1407
01:32:43.199 --> 01:32:45.239
at games? You know, it's
like do you want to you know,

1408
01:32:45.279 --> 01:32:46.479
I'm gonna come to time, you
gonna spend doing a round up. It's

1409
01:32:46.479 --> 01:32:51.439
like, here's the best five card
stud poker on your it's gonna make Yeah,

1410
01:32:51.439 --> 01:32:55.079
that's that's the game off phone.
I mean, thank thank on the

1411
01:32:55.399 --> 01:32:59.800
phone? Yeah now yeah, has
the same two phones and and then that's

1412
01:33:00.199 --> 01:33:03.960
less of a problem now. But
it's it's uh, it's definitely you know,

1413
01:33:04.039 --> 01:33:06.279
because I had to get up to
speed on a lot of the pre

1414
01:33:06.399 --> 01:33:10.600
iPhone mobile stuff as a result of
that stuff, and it was a really

1415
01:33:10.680 --> 01:33:13.520
interesting study in terms of just like, well, this is not something we

1416
01:33:13.520 --> 01:33:16.079
should cover, but I'm glad that
I at least went through this because you

1417
01:33:16.119 --> 01:33:18.840
know, went then when the iPhone
kind of broke and got really big,

1418
01:33:19.079 --> 01:33:21.000
I was in more of a position
to kind of see how that stuff was

1419
01:33:21.119 --> 01:33:24.960
changing. But in terms of that
platform going from a wild west there down

1420
01:33:25.000 --> 01:33:27.840
to like, you know, two
or three dominant platform holders, which isn't

1421
01:33:27.880 --> 01:33:30.720
that different than console game where we
have two or three dominant platform holders.

1422
01:33:30.119 --> 01:33:33.159
I don't. I mean, from
my perspective, I think that for traditional

1423
01:33:33.239 --> 01:33:38.119
console game developers who are scared about
this space, it's scared about making titanic

1424
01:33:38.159 --> 01:33:41.680
games versus a ninety nine cent you
know, one second mechanical and over again.

1425
01:33:41.920 --> 01:33:45.119
It's like, isn't that what XPLA
and PSN or four like? Isn't

1426
01:33:45.159 --> 01:33:46.399
like isn't that what Double Fine is
doing right now? Which is that you

1427
01:33:46.439 --> 01:33:49.399
know, the last game I finished
Bulletstorm before I came out here, But

1428
01:33:49.479 --> 01:33:54.840
the last two games I finished were
stacking and you know, constant questions in

1429
01:33:54.920 --> 01:33:57.000
a weekend, in a day,
and I felt like I had a really

1430
01:33:57.079 --> 01:33:59.279
good time and good experience with it. I didn't feel like, well,

1431
01:33:59.319 --> 01:34:00.000
if I you know, end up, I haven't getting swamped with work and

1432
01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:03.039
I can't dedicate forty hours of this. I'm not really gonna get my sixty

1433
01:34:03.039 --> 01:34:04.800
dollars, so why would I pay
for it? But it's like you're at

1434
01:34:04.840 --> 01:34:09.800
least accomplishing something. I spent fifteen
dollars for five hours, which isn't actually

1435
01:34:09.840 --> 01:34:12.079
the same breakdown, but I was
much happier with that. Yeah, what

1436
01:34:12.239 --> 01:34:15.239
was your first thirty hours of going
through the intro stacking? Like, uh,

1437
01:34:15.359 --> 01:34:18.439
it was? It was. It
was a little a little confused until

1438
01:34:18.439 --> 01:34:23.720
I found that character could identify everybody
that was I was laughing because like I

1439
01:34:23.840 --> 01:34:26.640
call Adam on the phone or actually, no, you call me on the

1440
01:34:26.680 --> 01:34:28.279
phone, and I was like,
he's like, what you do. I'm

1441
01:34:28.279 --> 01:34:30.279
like, I'm playing a second and
he's like, what's going on? Like

1442
01:34:30.720 --> 01:34:34.920
it's still the opening. I'm still
trying to find why this guy's talking.

1443
01:34:35.479 --> 01:34:40.760
It was it was like the opening. Yeah, it's very deliberately paced,

1444
01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:44.239
you know, to like achieve that
silent film look like they had to they

1445
01:34:44.279 --> 01:34:47.279
had to kind of do work,
you know. It's a definitely like I

1446
01:34:47.479 --> 01:34:50.239
found myself going like can I just
skip through this stuff? Like I've become

1447
01:34:50.319 --> 01:34:55.720
very impatient as a players terrible that
the same way the like, like the

1448
01:34:55.840 --> 01:34:59.079
breakout competition that no one really expected
was the Packman Championship, and yeah,

1449
01:34:59.159 --> 01:35:02.279
yeah they came to like Furious x
X plus Live Friends List Flight Between like

1450
01:35:02.319 --> 01:35:05.600
everyone a Giant Bomb and the Universe, And I played the share that game.

1451
01:35:05.640 --> 01:35:09.439
It was and it was not just
pacmanpoorted over XBLA. It was like,

1452
01:35:09.479 --> 01:35:12.439
actually some cool design decisions that were
made. But yeah, and it's

1453
01:35:12.439 --> 01:35:14.560
spent money on that. It's another
one of the things that's really exciting to

1454
01:35:14.600 --> 01:35:16.640
just see, like the rise of
the download game and also the return of

1455
01:35:16.720 --> 01:35:19.279
the small team game as a result. Well, you know, one of

1456
01:35:19.319 --> 01:35:24.079
the things that kind of ties back
to our kame. These guys can have

1457
01:35:24.239 --> 01:35:27.640
a vision and execute on it,
and it's not always great obviously, you

1458
01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:30.399
know, there's playing of download games
that just come out looking like joke.

1459
01:35:30.600 --> 01:35:32.520
The interesting thing about this week at
g DC has been the theme that I

1460
01:35:32.640 --> 01:35:36.479
found talking to all the publishers is
like a big sort of sad trombone.

1461
01:35:36.560 --> 01:35:43.119
I mean they're all like stuff and
guys and then everyone else I'm finding,

1462
01:35:43.159 --> 01:35:44.720
Yeah, they're like what do we
do? Do we do social? Do

1463
01:35:44.800 --> 01:35:46.119
we do mobile? How much of
each do we do? Were we moving

1464
01:35:46.439 --> 01:35:50.439
and all the people like my company
in the independent developments, like I love

1465
01:35:50.520 --> 01:35:54.760
this. This is the rock solid
stuff because it's it is kind of world

1466
01:35:54.800 --> 01:35:58.199
West, which we're defining what the
future is going to be. And publishers

1467
01:35:58.239 --> 01:36:01.039
just aren't built to be able to
handle the digital content and so they're frustrated.

1468
01:36:01.239 --> 01:36:05.600
But they independent movies and blockbuster movies
right like brothers, and they can't

1469
01:36:05.640 --> 01:36:09.279
publish. I mean they and they
have like any movie arms maybe, but

1470
01:36:09.359 --> 01:36:12.760
you're not gonna get a breakout.
It's but it's a chicken and the egg

1471
01:36:12.800 --> 01:36:14.319
thing too, because a lot of
that was like, oh, the markets

1472
01:36:14.439 --> 01:36:16.079
change and consumers are getting different games
or whatever. But I think a lot

1473
01:36:16.119 --> 01:36:18.520
of that has to do with that. It's not so much. I mean,

1474
01:36:18.600 --> 01:36:21.279
that's obviously part of it, but
developers have changed. Like when I

1475
01:36:21.359 --> 01:36:25.439
grew up, I'd buy Encounter Seas
four games, the archon and buy all

1476
01:36:25.439 --> 01:36:28.119
the stuff with like the record album
covers kind of hang the ship in my

1477
01:36:28.199 --> 01:36:30.479
wall I had, like the EA
we see farther post on my wall with

1478
01:36:30.520 --> 01:36:33.039
Bill Budge and Westball and all that, and like I'm like, my goal

1479
01:36:33.119 --> 01:36:35.359
is to work at THEA. Like
now do you think like I don't know

1480
01:36:35.439 --> 01:36:38.439
the Superman Boy guys at all,
but do you think they want to fucking

1481
01:36:38.479 --> 01:36:45.800
work at easing the small groups.
It's so identifiable when you say notch in

1482
01:36:45.920 --> 01:36:47.680
Minecraft, it's like, I want
to be notch, Like do I want

1483
01:36:47.680 --> 01:36:51.399
to me Clifford me running this whole
big, huge team Aroundy Pitchford and running

1484
01:36:51.399 --> 01:36:55.720
the whole company. You know,
it's like can identify with the guy that

1485
01:36:55.840 --> 01:36:59.119
has says I want to be notch, like he in the talk to Its

1486
01:36:59.119 --> 01:37:02.279
like he was a lot of the
streams like which it was kind of funny

1487
01:37:02.279 --> 01:37:05.560
because you know his whole thing,
and you know, you ask him like,

1488
01:37:05.680 --> 01:37:09.720
hey, would you ever think about
doing a new jazz Jack Rabbit or

1489
01:37:09.760 --> 01:37:13.399
something like that. I returned to
like a smaller download walking about that we're

1490
01:37:13.439 --> 01:37:15.479
not saying we don't need to talk
about that Billy ber again where you saw

1491
01:37:15.680 --> 01:37:19.439
he was there for the witness of
the conversation, but yeah, this is

1492
01:37:19.479 --> 01:37:25.399
before that stuff. And he would
say no, fuck no, like we're

1493
01:37:25.479 --> 01:37:29.039
making these big games, like it
was kind of Xblas coming up. He's

1494
01:37:29.079 --> 01:37:30.399
like, these big blockbuster games,
this is what I want to make.

1495
01:37:30.760 --> 01:37:33.920
And to hear him kind of changes
his tune a little bit. I think

1496
01:37:33.960 --> 01:37:40.520
probably speaks to like how crazy he
Well, someone said back and be an

1497
01:37:40.560 --> 01:37:42.840
Indian and make a team, make
a game with ten people, and he

1498
01:37:43.359 --> 01:37:45.560
or like, would you go down
that path and have more control and be

1499
01:37:45.640 --> 01:37:48.119
a power creative really drive that vision. He's like, fuck no, because

1500
01:37:48.119 --> 01:37:51.239
I get to work with these people
who balance down a team or so into

1501
01:37:51.279 --> 01:37:55.439
my and actually check my crazy vision. But it means we need to make

1502
01:37:55.479 --> 01:37:58.640
these bigger experiences that millions of people
enjoy. And that's important too. It's

1503
01:37:58.640 --> 01:38:00.279
part of the industry. It's part
of what those games forward to make it.

1504
01:38:00.399 --> 01:38:03.399
You know, the Mind Trip Gears
three being on fucking it wasn't our

1505
01:38:03.439 --> 01:38:06.000
coner of Fallon, the Jimmy Fallon. Yeah, it was like, Jimmy

1506
01:38:06.000 --> 01:38:09.840
found video trailer is just cooled it
in the middle of the late night show,

1507
01:38:09.840 --> 01:38:13.119
they'll show a video game trailer for
a minute. That's that's pretty rape,

1508
01:38:13.359 --> 01:38:15.319
that's pretty way. Chicago was pretty
cool too. People should go.

1509
01:38:15.880 --> 01:38:21.439
Yeah. Yeah, Chicot's Tourism Bureau
as Chicago was still off. I remember

1510
01:38:21.520 --> 01:38:26.680
going to CS and I we were
at an EA Sports party when the Bulls

1511
01:38:26.800 --> 01:38:30.960
won. Uh which of the three
pet one? Yeah? Which I mean

1512
01:38:30.960 --> 01:38:32.399
it would have been first three,
second three peat. It would have been

1513
01:38:32.560 --> 01:38:36.520
early nineties. It would have been
like some time between first three two three,

1514
01:38:36.840 --> 01:38:40.520
and we were on Rush Street getting
out of this party and it was

1515
01:38:40.600 --> 01:38:44.039
like even flipping cars though, like
me and it's Randy and Paul from Game

1516
01:38:44.119 --> 01:38:47.319
and Former and like roymcdonald who was
who was? It was like, shoe,

1517
01:38:47.439 --> 01:38:50.119
where's all the e GM guys because
they're all on Lombard. I don't

1518
01:38:50.159 --> 01:38:53.439
think any of those guys like they
were, right, I mean, you

1519
01:38:53.479 --> 01:38:56.640
know, it's yeah, but that's
how I got my start with It was

1520
01:38:56.720 --> 01:39:00.760
like MS working my way over to
the lumbard our empe. So this is

1521
01:39:00.840 --> 01:39:02.880
I think this is like kind of
pre shoot. This is more like Steve

1522
01:39:02.960 --> 01:39:11.560
Harris ed Samuraid sort of like this
is sushi x Ken William. So yeah,

1523
01:39:11.880 --> 01:39:14.359
and I remember like going to see
us and having a guy like point

1524
01:39:14.359 --> 01:39:15.359
out, there's a guy playing a
street fighter machine and so I'm going to

1525
01:39:16.880 --> 01:39:19.840
and you look at it like never
was You're telling me this pudgy white dude

1526
01:39:19.920 --> 01:39:21.680
is fucking it turn up right?
Like I totally was. It was like

1527
01:39:21.800 --> 01:39:26.119
it was like, em so let's
see this, Let's go around the table,

1528
01:39:26.279 --> 01:39:29.920
right, what was the one arcade
game that was like the big one

1529
01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:39.239
for you Smash TV. So that's
a little late but all like Gallagha and

1530
01:39:39.279 --> 01:39:43.600
Blaxie and and all that stuff.
But but yeah, that one and also

1531
01:39:43.960 --> 01:39:46.079
watching my dad played dragons Layer.
We would go to the arcade on weekends

1532
01:39:46.079 --> 01:39:48.920
and stuff. That was the first
game I ever played. I could never

1533
01:39:49.039 --> 01:39:51.520
I was fucking terrible at it,
but he got to a point where he

1534
01:39:51.640 --> 01:39:55.840
was beating dragons Layer. And we
would play a lot of Gauntlet and Cary

1535
01:39:55.920 --> 01:40:00.680
Warriors together, So yeah, I
would. I was a younger brother.

1536
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:02.319
So the first game that I'm always
I've always be more of a co op

1537
01:40:02.399 --> 01:40:04.800
guy, Like I'm I'm much more
a fan of say, Left for Dead

1538
01:40:04.800 --> 01:40:10.359
than yeah, yeah co op you
but we uh the first game that we

1539
01:40:10.479 --> 01:40:12.880
both sort of recognized characters that have
played together. It was actually, this

1540
01:40:12.920 --> 01:40:15.520
is gonna be a little weird,
but the Simpsons game Simponsky Cabinet, my

1541
01:40:15.640 --> 01:40:19.760
brother, my brother, I will
be Bart Simpson right now. I'm I'm

1542
01:40:19.840 --> 01:40:21.880
six years old, and I'll put
the ship out of this and we would

1543
01:40:21.880 --> 01:40:27.159
just put a course in that hall
like Aladdin's Castle in the Mall's Castle I

1544
01:40:27.239 --> 01:40:30.239
remember because yeah, so Drake and
I are from the same hometown literally,

1545
01:40:30.479 --> 01:40:34.399
right, And it made me laughed
so hard because yeah, I remember Letten's

1546
01:40:34.439 --> 01:40:40.239
Castle had because Canalis in Buffalo Grove
at the time, and Canami had all

1547
01:40:40.279 --> 01:40:45.359
these different arcade uh cabinets on tests
and Lenn's Castle's own, So yeah,

1548
01:40:45.199 --> 01:40:46.960
that was what that was? What
was it for you? It was a

1549
01:40:47.199 --> 01:40:50.880
jam? Fuck well it's jam of
course, But actually the one that actually

1550
01:40:50.960 --> 01:40:56.520
really hooked me that big time was
Killer Instinct. And I know a lot.

1551
01:40:57.000 --> 01:41:01.520
What did you think? What terrible
killer inst You didn't like killer You're

1552
01:41:01.560 --> 01:41:06.199
fucking kidding me? Killer like fighting
games where you actually had to play them,

1553
01:41:06.279 --> 01:41:10.520
not where you just like Dial of
Combos. See that, That to

1554
01:41:10.600 --> 01:41:16.479
me says that I'm not exactly Yeah, killer instinct for me because I was

1555
01:41:16.560 --> 01:41:19.479
a huge, rare fan, right, I mean like Dunkey Kong Country,

1556
01:41:19.600 --> 01:41:23.199
everything I was doing, like did
you kill Killer cuts the c D?

1557
01:41:23.960 --> 01:41:30.800
Yeah I did, and we've been
dancing on stage. There's actually there's actually

1558
01:41:30.119 --> 01:41:34.079
a buddy that that I went to
grade school with, Georgia Pree, right,

1559
01:41:34.119 --> 01:41:38.560
who's like, I remember when you
were in grade school, you had

1560
01:41:38.600 --> 01:41:45.560
a killer in Stinc Medallion, Like, I totally like bit that pole.

1561
01:41:45.600 --> 01:41:48.079
I was into, Like Killer in
Sinc was like was it because it was

1562
01:41:48.119 --> 01:41:51.279
like Midway and it was rare.
It was a Nintendo so it was a

1563
01:41:51.399 --> 01:41:55.800
huge fan of Killer Instinct for me. There was no actually our kid in

1564
01:41:55.880 --> 01:41:58.920
my hometown, so Birch Bay,
Washington State, we had to go,

1565
01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:00.680
and we would go there twice year. I would say about all my money,

1566
01:42:00.680 --> 01:42:04.439
I would play Gauntlet in seven twenty, like literally thirty bucks on each.

1567
01:42:04.640 --> 01:42:08.560
I would just be like, dad
dropped out in twenty the n sixty

1568
01:42:08.600 --> 01:42:11.600
four game. No the skateboarding,
Oh yeah, sorry, I skate on

1569
01:42:12.279 --> 01:42:19.800
that game. I called up my
local arcade once and asked them how much

1570
01:42:19.840 --> 01:42:24.000
it would cost to buy a seven
twenty mission. Dude, I didn't give

1571
01:42:24.039 --> 01:42:26.800
you an answer. Yeah, it
was like five thousand dollars, right.

1572
01:42:28.279 --> 01:42:31.079
I actually asked for for my birthday
one year store once and asked how much

1573
01:42:31.119 --> 01:42:34.760
it would be to buy a chimpanzee. So I understand, Yeah, no

1574
01:42:36.880 --> 01:42:48.279
seven twenty chimpanzee, seven twenty last
forever ships in his pants, in your

1575
01:42:48.319 --> 01:42:51.479
mouth, in your mouth, on
your head, all right, sorry,

1576
01:42:51.560 --> 01:42:56.680
damning Track and Field. I remember
the Let's cast up at my house.

1577
01:42:56.760 --> 01:42:59.800
They had the bottery. Yeah,
they in the track and field and all

1578
01:43:00.039 --> 01:43:01.319
so by us. It was everyone
had the comb in their fingers. Yeah,

1579
01:43:01.359 --> 01:43:03.920
and they would use that to like
lover the buttons. I see people

1580
01:43:03.920 --> 01:43:08.960
bring spoons or pencils were big too. But then I remember they were also

1581
01:43:09.079 --> 01:43:13.520
junkies, so they it was then
like there's the year I fell in love

1582
01:43:13.520 --> 01:43:15.119
with it and we wanted this family
vacation. I remember where we're driving and

1583
01:43:15.119 --> 01:43:17.520
we're at this like four Seasons resort
or something, and we get there they

1584
01:43:17.560 --> 01:43:19.520
have an arcade, and naturally go
to the arcade to check it out,

1585
01:43:19.680 --> 01:43:24.399
and they had a fucking track ball
track and field. Blew in my fucking

1586
01:43:24.439 --> 01:43:26.640
mind, didn't know what existed.
But it's like, instead of like this,

1587
01:43:26.760 --> 01:43:30.000
it's just spitting the things fashkin and
yeah. Then basically it's like I

1588
01:43:30.079 --> 01:43:33.239
wasn't yeah, and I just did
that all that. It was incredible.

1589
01:43:33.479 --> 01:43:35.880
It was like sacrilege. But I'm
still so awesome. I'm so crazy.

1590
01:43:36.119 --> 01:43:39.840
Yeah, and to this day,
you're still really good at furiously passing your

1591
01:43:39.840 --> 01:43:47.680
hand over knobs. Next for a
job, the one for me actually actually

1592
01:43:47.880 --> 01:43:51.880
turned out to be NBA jam because
I had the fondest memories of Uh,

1593
01:43:53.159 --> 01:43:57.439
my parents owned a rent this lake
house in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, just

1594
01:43:57.520 --> 01:44:01.640
snore to the Illinois border, and
uh there was this NBAB. She had

1595
01:44:01.720 --> 01:44:05.239
this bar, this like family bar
that everyone kind of go to, and

1596
01:44:05.520 --> 01:44:11.760
we would spend the entire fall collecting
change into these giant of those giant crams,

1597
01:44:11.960 --> 01:44:15.319
you boys, I do. So
my parents got that for us and

1598
01:44:15.359 --> 01:44:17.119
they were like, so we're tired
of having to give you so much money

1599
01:44:17.319 --> 01:44:20.479
to play NBA Jam. So just
you guys, spend the fall in the

1600
01:44:20.520 --> 01:44:25.720
winter putting coins into this crayon and
then that's what you get to spend on

1601
01:44:25.880 --> 01:44:28.479
NBA Jam. And we would we
would cash it it. We'd take this

1602
01:44:28.600 --> 01:44:32.439
giant cran ticket to the bank,
get hundreds of quarters and that we would

1603
01:44:32.439 --> 01:44:36.279
spend. I mean a dam was
a quarter per quarter, so that added

1604
01:44:36.359 --> 01:44:40.960
up pretty quick. But because we
had the giant cran, that's what I

1605
01:44:41.000 --> 01:44:44.680
would spend my our entire summer's doing
awesome. Well, I think that's gonna

1606
01:44:44.720 --> 01:44:48.920
do it for us. I know
it seems the most boring bombast, It's

1607
01:44:48.960 --> 01:44:54.439
like weird nostalgia. Just cut it
off after the threesome story. It's done.

1608
01:44:55.560 --> 01:44:58.279
If you want, if you must
want to tell some horrible Midway story,

1609
01:44:58.359 --> 01:45:04.359
now is the time. That's a
good horrible it's right exactly. Thank

1610
01:45:04.359 --> 01:45:08.920
you. But that's been a g
DC from us here. Thanks for watching

1611
01:45:09.399 --> 01:45:11.920
or listening. If you're listening.
If you're not listening, then you're not

1612
01:45:11.960 --> 01:45:15.079
even hearing me. Thank you for
watching, so I guess thank you for

1613
01:45:15.159 --> 01:45:19.600
watching and or listening talking All right, Yes, that's GDC. We'll be

1614
01:45:19.720 --> 01:45:25.359
back with regular podcasts on Tuesday and
then Packs East. Don't forget Friday night

1615
01:45:25.439 --> 01:45:28.520
of Pack East. We've got our
panel. Thursday Night of Pack East will

1616
01:45:28.520 --> 01:45:31.640
be judging the Harmonics rock band Radel
Theater in Harvard Square. Come on later

1617
01:45:31.640 --> 01:45:34.680
to see heavy metal screen on the
big screen. Weird as Yeah, I

1618
01:45:34.680 --> 01:45:38.319
don't think we're gonna we're flying in
that day, so you're not gonna be

1619
01:45:38.359 --> 01:45:41.520
there, all right, Well he'll
be there, heavy Metal, heavy Metal

1620
01:46:00.760 --> 01:46:03.000
the sefentefifty fifty sixty TI