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What is krak a lac Infelow thermonuclear
a efforts. I am a damp valley

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coming at you with a very special
fun and I believe it will be a

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super entertaining episode. I got to
speak with Alex Squadron. He's the author

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of the book I'm holding up on
screen now if you're watching Life in the

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G Minor League Basketball and the Relentless
Pursuit of the NBA. HAD a great

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discussion with him this book, just
his brief background. We get into a

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lot of the process, some wild
stories from it. I talked to Alex

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about it. But it follows the
Birmingham Squadron, who, despite having the

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same name as Alex, he's not
related to them in any way. I

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don't know why people would necessarily think
that, but that was a little fun

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anecdote from the book as well,
about him being last named Squadron and then

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following a team that's called the Squadron. I did ask him about that.

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He follows this team. He's with
them the entire step of the way.

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He is in meetings, in the
locker room, he's in their draft war

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room that wasn't really like a war
room, as he describes that the access

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they gave him was unprecedented. The
work he did was fantastic. It really

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sheds a light on the disparate lifestyles
in the NBA versus the G League.

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But you're also just getting a census
to what's on the line for these players,

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what's going on in their lives,
some of the decisions that they're making

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where they're passing on a lot of
money Elsewhere Throughout the book, it does

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follow what you would call four main
characters in Zilon Cheatham, Malcolm Hill,

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Jared Harper, and Joe Young.
But there's just a lot of other stuff

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in the book, whether it's coaches
or management. The G League showcases is

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highlighted. There's talks with past and
present G leaguers. Andre Ingram wrote the

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forward for this book. There's a
lot of great stories in it. So

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look, I get recommended books,
and I don't necessarily you know, this

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is recommended by Mere and Fader,
who anyone who listens to this podcast knows

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is one of my favorite writers of
all time. The recommendation did not disappoint.

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It will be going up behind me
because it is that good. So

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I would check it out. Definitely
check out the conversation. The link to

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buy it will be in the podcast
and YouTube descriptions. I think you will

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enjoy the discussion even if you don't
end up buying the book, but please

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support Alex. We have a great
community here. Appreciate every single one of

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you. Pick up the book for
you, yourself or someone. It is

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the holiday season again. Link in
the podcast and YouTube description. Let's get

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to talking with Alex Squadron, author
of Life in the G Minor League Basketball

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and the Relentless Pursuit of the NBA. Alex, Welcome to the Hardwar Knox

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podcast. Thank you so much for
coming on. As everybody knows from listening

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to the intro, you are the
author of Life in the G fantastic book

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about life in the G League,
minor league basketball and the Relentless Pursuit of

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the NBA. Forward is by Andre
Ingram. That was a fun forward to.

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I asked you about that befo or
even started so. I was so

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excited that mister g Leigu himself was
in there. I have so many questions.

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This was a great book. I'll
start with this. How the heck

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are you doing? Man? Well, I'm doing great. Thank you so

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much for having me As I told
you before, I'm a huge fan of

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the podcast, so this is super
cool for me. Yeah. Man,

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it's been uh, it's been crazy
since the book came out, but everything's

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gone well, so I can't complain. Book You Told Me came out in

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October over under the number of interviews
you've had to do. Setting it at

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like a million, I'm gonna go
over a million. I think I should

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say I'm always not to do more. So if anybody's listening to this,

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for sure, hit me up.
It's been great. I mean it's exhausting

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because you can never really do enough, and but it's a lot. As

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soon as that book comes out,
you just hit the ground running and it

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really doesn't stop. It just keeps
going. Has there been anything about the

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sort of the gamut of interviews that
I'm surprised? Is it having to talk

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about yourself more? Is there any
questions about the book that been thrown around?

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Have just been like has the experience
been what's surprised you most about sort

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of running the gamut of that media
interview experience following this? It's a great

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question. I think, like I
haven't done a lot of like on air

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or like podcast type stuff. I've
really just been you know, behind the

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camera writing for most of my career, so I think I was pretty nervous

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about doing all that stuff. And
I think what surprised me is how quickly

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you kind of get used to it. And I mean it helps that I'm

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obviously super passionate about the book and
about this subject and stuff like that,

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but I was definitely anxious about just
like doing any of the stuff. And

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then you know, a couple of
weeks go by and you start to get

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into a rhythm and now it's like
super fun. I love doing it,

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and I definitely did not expect that
to be you know, kind of my

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takeaway after this stretch. So it's
been great. Now, what prompted you

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to buy and name a G League
team? You acknowledge that right off the

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bat in the book, which I
think was important, but it was also

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hysterical following the Squadron. You did
tell me though, before we started that

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the play actually thought you were a
plant. Is that what you said?

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It's hard to blame them. I
mean, I just like kind of shows

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up on kind of day when a
training cabinet's like, this guy's gonna write

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a book. About the team and
oh yeah, his name is Alex Squadron

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and the team's name is Birmingham Squadron. And there wasn't much else offered,

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which was totally fine. I mean, I did want to be kind of

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like a fly on the wall.
I didn't want to, you know,

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as much as possible. I wanted
to kind of not be seen because I

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wanted it to be exactly what the
experience was if I wasn't there. So

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it's hard to blame them for thinking
like, this guy must have some affiliation

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to the team, because my name
is literally the name of the team.

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But I do have to clarify here
and then like right away in the book

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that like, I am not connected
to them anyway. It's like purely a

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coincidence. I did choose them because
of the name thing. That was definitely,

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I would say the number one factor, because I just I knew I

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wanted to follow a team, and
then it was like kind of random,

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like which one am I going to
pick? And then it was just like,

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all right, this would be kind
of silly for me to ignore the

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fact that one of them is my
name. It's kind of like destiny or

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it's telling me which one to choose, you know, so that was the

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reason I initially chose them, But
yeah, I had to clarify, or

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I've had to clarify through all these
interviews and to the team even when I

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was down there that I'm I'm just
a normal writer who happens to have the

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same name as the team. You
mentioned in the book that your dream was

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to write a book, and you
do have a pretty extensive background in sports,

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But was there like a source inspiration
or flashbull moment that made you want

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to write about this topic which is
just outlined in the interests. We haven't

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gotten into too much in the plot
just yet. It's like you're following this

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g V team. There are the
four main characters, but you cover you

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know, there's so many different between
the coaches in the front office and you're

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talking to family members, you're talking
about past G League players. Is there

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was there like a flash bulb inspiration
for like this is the type of book

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or exact subject matter I want to
write, Slash cover. I think that

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I don't think there was like a
flashball moment. Wasn't like a you know,

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I was just watching the G League
one day and was like, oh

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my God, it wasn't nothing like
that, but because I really want,

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like it was my dream, like
I said, to write a book,

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and so I was really searching for
a subject and basketball was always like my

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area of expertise. And there's been
a lot of basketball books, more than

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most people realize, and so there's
just not that many subjects that haven't been

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covered at all. And the G
League like shockingly just like there's very little

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coverage of it, and every year
it was growing and it was becoming more

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and more important to like NBA teams, and there were just more and more

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players coming from the G League and
having a major impact in the NBA.

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And it just felt like the timing
was like perfect, like no one's done

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this. I want to write my
first book. You know, we'll get

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into this, I'm sure, but
like I know, the access would probably

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be a lot easier than what I
can get to NBA teams, And so

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I think all of those things kind
of combined to push me to do it,

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just like the fact that there was
nothing there and yeah, I could

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kind of be the first one to
you know, to capture this experience and

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to document kind of the journey of
guys trying to get to the NBA.

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So yeah, no flashball moment,
but definitely like once I decided that that

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was kind of the route I wanted
to take, and I started like looking

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into you know, revisiting Andre Ingram's
story or you know, all these G

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League guys and they're kind of inspiring
stories. That was when I was like,

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Okay, I got something here,
like this could really be something compelling

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and yeah, like I said,
something that's never been done before. So

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those were the major factors. It
becomes clear throughout the book, and I

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think that's like the most exciting hook
of the book is like you were with

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this team for the end, Like
you were there, you were on the

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ground. But I was also told
that you made this decision to get that

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access to follow this team at a
time where the pandemic was just still going

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on. You make this decision and
you did not, if I'm correct,

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did not have a book deal lined
up, which is just that takes some

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fucking gall that I envy beyond all
reason. What went into that decision,

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How tough of a decision was it. Was there anyone who like kind of

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influenced you or helped you come to
like, No, I'm going to do

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this or was it you know,
I really want to be an author.

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I want to write a book.
This is what I want to write about.

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So I'm just I'm just going to
do this. Well, first of

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all, thank you so much.
I guess I should say the first person

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I should name is Ben Osborne,
who was the editor in chief at SLAM

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when I first started working at Slam, and he's always been like a mentor

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of mine and just a huge like
impact on my career. He was like

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the first person I called when I
had the idea and he knew that I

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wanted to, you know, get
into writing books, and I outlined everything,

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told him I didn't have a deal
and kind of was expecting him to,

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you know, let me know the
risk and you know, walk me

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through kind of the pros and cons, and he was just like, go

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for it, like this is what
you want to do. It's a great

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idea. I think that you know
there's gonna be something there, like you

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should take the leap. And that
was really for me, Like if he

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says like jump, I'll do it. So he was a huge influence.

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And then there's been so many writers
like that just like inspired me or supported

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me along the way. Mirror Fader, our mutual friend has been like incredible.

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Jeff Pearlman's always been like like an
inspiration to me and his career.

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And a couple of guys who came
through Slam your Own Whitesman, Jake Fisher,

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those guys wrote books. And then
I think like going down there again,

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just having like my family, my
friends supporting me, believing in the

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idea, and you know, I
think it was less like I mean,

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obviously I believed in myself to be
able to do it, but I think

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it was more like I really believed
there would be a story there, Like

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I just knew that there were Like
the risk was obviously big that that I

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wouldn't get a book, but I
just knew that there would be at least

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a compelling like narrative to follow,
and so if there was that, then

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you know, then the kind of
burden falls on my shoulders to deliver something

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that you know, honors that story. So yeah, I mean it the

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risk made it a little uh nerve
wracking for sure, but it was also

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super you know fun, and to
be able to just like get that access

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and be so fully embedded, like
you know, I kind of told myself

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throughout the process, regardless of what
happens, this has been just such an

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awesome experience. So luckily it worked
out too sore a book wasn't incredible?

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Well, so you how do you
go about getting that access? Was it

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surprisingly easy? Was it challenging?
Was there an element of the you know,

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Birmingham squadron, like someone wants this
much access to Yeah? Sure,

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why the help? Like? What
was that process? Sort of like I

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would say, shockingly easy? Uh? And I think I think I got

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I got lucky. I mean,
part partly it's just because it's the G

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League and they don't get as much
coverage. And I think players coaches at

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that level are just eager to tell
their stories because they haven't really gotten a

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chance to. But the the process
was really like I I was going to

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move down there from New York,
so like I was going to basically pick

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up my life and completely, uh
you know, just restart for seven months.

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So before I did that, I
wanted to make very clear that like

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this is what I need, Like
I I'm not going to come down there

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if I don't get this access.
So they asked me to make a list

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of everything that I wanted to be
a part of and so I did that,

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and yeah, like a week later
they were like, this is all

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approved, This all looks good to
us. And I think it was even

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better than what I had outlined on
that list because the team I ended up

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kind of becoming, you know,
obviously becoming a part of the team,

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and as the season goes on,
players start to open up, coaches start

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to open up, and then the
access becomes even more. So, Yeah,

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that's a huge, like shout out
to the Squadron organization, the Pelicans,

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the affiliate because I think it,
you know, went all the way

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up there and then just I think
it's just speaks to, you know,

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how little attention is paid to the
G League that they were willing to give

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me a really full access. I
mean I film sessions, coaches meetings,

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team dinners, I traveled with them, so it was pretty much anything that

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the team had going on, assuming
I was available, I was there.

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So that was a I was a
treat. I was super lucky. What

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was the whether it was fascinating,
surreal, or most useful part of that

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access Because there are a bunch of
moments in the book that stick out where

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it's like oh he was in the
room for that. And the one that

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was the panic Button chapter when there's
the the player's only meeting type thing,

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was just like wow, like the
fact that you even close proximity to that.

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But was there any like what was
the most useful aspect of having that

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type of access. I think film
sessions, Like I just think that when

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you're like I've been writing about basketball
for you know, my entire professional career

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and a fan of basketball since I
was you know, two, and I

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feel like I felt like I had
a good sense for you know, like

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I would understand a little bit of
what was going on, and then you're

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standing in there and you're watching them
kind of break down film and you realize

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that like you know nothing. I
mean, just like it's a different language,

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the amount that just goes into I
mean just like every single detail.

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I mean they break down everything,
and yeah, I mean just like you

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really can't hide it on an NBA
court. I mean when we look at

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a player and say maybe like oh, you know, what is he doing

224
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or over kind of criticizing him,
there's a lot of things that he's doing

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right that we're not seeing. And
I'm sure there's a lot of stuff that

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he's probably doing wrong that we're not
seeing, but we don't really know how

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he's doing in a lot of cases. I mean, obviously there's certain cases

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where you can tell, but it's
just the amount the attention to detail and

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you know how much goes into every
little thing that's to me was the most

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enlightening and you know, the most
fascinating. To see him close, I

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would have found the I think the
film sessions for sure, I probably would

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have Those would have gotten tedious for
me because I would have hate not knowing

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what's going on all the time,
Like I don't like to be exposed for

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how much I don't know. I
want to be able to bullshait my way

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throughout, like sure have to sit
through. Those would have been too briven

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force maybe too self reflective. I
think I tried like right away, like

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I'm like all right, so there
are day one, I'm like, okay,

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what is going on? And then
I'm like I need to learn this

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like this was and I think that
that was the response, Like I was

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like, all right, I can't
be just the dumbest person in this room,

241
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Like I have to at least have
a sense for what's going on obviously

242
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to write about it and then just
like for my own like pride of like

243
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I need to just like I call
myself a basketball writer. I you know,

244
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I played for through high school and
I've been a fan forever, Like

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I need to get a grip on
this, And I would say that I

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still my knowledge of it is not
even close to to where you know,

247
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all those guys are at. But
by the end I can at least understand

248
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what they were talking about and follow
those sessions a little bit better than day

249
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one for sure. And you mentioning
the film sessions made me think, and

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00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,320
it comes across in the book you
appreciate it, but it gives you a

251
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:03,679
new found appreciation for so like look
at Silin Cheatham has to learn the Jazz

252
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Playbook and the Heat Playbook and it's
just and it's just like you didn't make

253
00:17:07,559 --> 00:17:10,079
it a throwaway comment, but it's
just the way he reacted was like,

254
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:11,759
yeah, I had these materials.
I'm like, I just had to read

255
00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:15,079
them, and it's like what the
fuck, Like is that even possible?

256
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,680
I mean yeah, it is like
talk about like having to cram for I

257
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mean, he you get called up
or you get traded or whatever the circumstances

258
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are. You have to learn everything
like you're expected to. It's not like,

259
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,759
oh, like, you know,
give this guy a break, like

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he just got here. It's like, well, if he doesn't know the

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playbook, he's not up to speed, Like he just won't make it like

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he he. That's the expectation is
that you're going to be, you know,

263
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willing to adapt, ready to pick
up whatever the new system is,

264
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know the plays, not make mistakes
right away. And so these guys,

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it is like for that six seven
months, it is a absolute grind.

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It is NonStop. You were constantly
studying, and especially if you're moving back

267
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:08,359
and forth, it becomes just like
a complete whirlwind. So I was lucky

268
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that I got to also you know, see that transition and all that goes

269
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into it. But yeah, man, it's a lot. It's crazy as

270
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someone who was always bad, because
I constantly feel like an imposition of cultivating

271
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sources or developing rapport with sources or
even just like if I'm around when I

272
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,920
was around teams a bunch, like
even developing a rapport with the team employees.

273
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The amount of or the breadth of
the relationships that you clearly build throughout

274
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:44,960
this book is incredibly impressive. What
goes in to gaining the trust of the

275
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players, the coaches, management,
and do you think it helped it all

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00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,799
once they got past thinking you were
an industry plant because of your name,

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00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:55,759
Did it helped all that you were
in And maybe they didn't know this,

278
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:56,799
but like, did they know that
you were kind of in a similar situation

279
00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:00,680
where it's like, well, we're
all kind of turning down these other opportunities

280
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,319
to be here for the most part, And here's this writer who's also betting

281
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,200
on themselves because they didn't have a
book deal coming into this in there,

282
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so it's not just you're around,
but you're rolling the dice on being around

283
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:18,640
as well. I think, so
I think that that did help. I

284
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think the first thing is, you
know, I tried to I knew I

285
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was going to be there for so
like I was going to be there for

286
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,200
the full season. So like the
first thing was, Okay, let me

287
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,880
not essentially come on too strong,
ask all these kind of hard hitting questions,

288
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,480
try to get deep with these players
because I have a full season to

289
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:45,640
ask the hard questions to unpack their
stories. So the approach was really like

290
00:19:45,319 --> 00:19:48,319
you know, and I was going
to be there, like I wanted to

291
00:19:48,319 --> 00:19:52,240
get to know these guys, just
like talking to them off the record,

292
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,240
being there every day, and the
book focuses on four guys. I think

293
00:19:57,279 --> 00:20:00,839
I also got lucky that they were
just great guy guy and willing to give

294
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,440
me the time and stuff like that. But yeah, I think that the

295
00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:08,240
building the trust and building the report
just came from you know, we had

296
00:20:08,279 --> 00:20:11,640
all these conversations throughout six seven months. It wasn't like I showed up there

297
00:20:12,279 --> 00:20:15,480
and it was like you have,
you know, an hour with this guy,

298
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,960
just sit down with him and interview
him. It was like I was

299
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,920
talking to these guys, you know, multiple times a week. I was

300
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,640
there every day, you know,
saying what's up to them? And I

301
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,799
clearly showed that I wanted to to
kind of capture their full stories. I

302
00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:33,319
mean I talk to family friends,
like I was asking them questions not just

303
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:41,200
about basketball, but you know,
their childhood and their hometowns and you know,

304
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,640
their kind of journeys all the way
to this moment. So the trust

305
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,799
just kind of gradually builds, I
think throughout the season and then as you

306
00:20:48,839 --> 00:20:53,559
get to you know, January February
you can start to kind of get deeper

307
00:20:53,599 --> 00:20:57,559
and you know, get to the
heart of what you want to write about

308
00:20:57,599 --> 00:21:03,559
and what kind of is the core
of each of their stories. So yeah,

309
00:21:03,759 --> 00:21:07,599
and then I think to your second
point, like about kind of them

310
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,480
knowing that, you know, this
was my dream to write a book,

311
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and that I was there kind of
pursuing my dream alongside them, kind of

312
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:18,240
pursuing their dreams. I think it
was more just like the fact that I

313
00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:22,960
was there every day, like the
fact that I was willing to kind of

314
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:27,000
go through the grind that I wanted
to capture like really what it was like

315
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,240
as opposed to you know, I
think if I was just interviewing them from

316
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:36,519
Afar, there would have been like
less respect for the process because it was

317
00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:40,519
like, you know, when they
were flying to Sioux Falls or flying to

318
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,000
you know, wherever the middle of
nowhere in the middle like you know,

319
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,640
in the morning, or connecting through
various airports, like I was there and

320
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:55,279
I was you know, dedicated and
wanted to to kind of go through the

321
00:21:55,319 --> 00:21:59,640
grind so that I could capture it, you know, in full. So

322
00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:04,880
I think that that certainly helps.
And yeah, I mean I was I'm

323
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:10,759
twenty eight, so I was around
their age, and and yeah, I

324
00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:15,000
think that they were able to relate
to how badly I wanted to write the

325
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,440
book and how much I was willing
to go through the grind to get to

326
00:22:18,519 --> 00:22:22,640
kind of the finished product in the
same way that they were. So but

327
00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:25,880
a huge shout out to all of
them because they you know, they were

328
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,039
awesome to cover and just great guys
overall. Do any of like whether it's

329
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,640
the core four of the book where
you're talking about Jared Harper, Malcolm Hill,

330
00:22:34,039 --> 00:22:38,079
Zileon Cheatham and Joe Young or other
people, like, do any of

331
00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:41,839
those relationships like you're still in contact
with any of these people of those sustained

332
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:47,680
in any way, shape or form. For sure. Yeah, I've spoken

333
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,000
to tall four of them, which, by the way, Jared Harper seems

334
00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:53,960
like he might be a little bit
of a closed book so I find that

335
00:22:55,079 --> 00:23:00,440
very impressive. He's by far the
quietest, and I would say that I

336
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,519
think he I wouldn't say he was
not interested, but he was less interested

337
00:23:04,519 --> 00:23:10,079
in the overall book than the other
guys. And he's just not a media

338
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,319
guy. I mean, he just
like he would openly admit that. But

339
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,119
again, like I was able to
speak to his family, and yeah,

340
00:23:18,279 --> 00:23:22,920
he's just like such a basketball jokie
that he's like the like epitome of like

341
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,119
I just want to focus on the
game. And I totally respected that,

342
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,720
and I think that that's kind of
I hope that came across in my kind

343
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:37,640
of characterization of him. He's just
such a like absolute basketball nerd and just

344
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,920
will do like whatever it takes.
I'm like definitely stayed in touch with Malcolm

345
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:48,359
and z Island. I'm actually going
to tomorrow I fly to Orlando for the

346
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,680
G League Showcase and Malcolm's playing for
the Squadron, so I'll see him there.

347
00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:57,119
But yeah, I mean me and
Malcolm talked like monthly, just checking

348
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,279
in, and I know Malcolm and
Ziland at least have gotten the chance to

349
00:24:02,279 --> 00:24:03,559
read the book, and I've gotten
some feedback from them, which is great.

350
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,039
And then the coaches as well.
I mean, like, you spend

351
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:12,079
so much time with the coaching staff
throughout the season and they were just awesome.

352
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,920
So I've stayed in touch with you
a bunch of people from the organization,

353
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:21,640
which is great. Is there anyone
that you can one divulge that was

354
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:22,920
you know, maybe in the book, or just related to the book that

355
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,759
has just reached out with feedback that
has stuck with you. And then is

356
00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:30,000
there just anyone in general, whether
it's a fellow writer you respect her or

357
00:24:30,039 --> 00:24:33,200
someone in the industry whos said something
about the book that has stuck with you

358
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,599
as well since it's coming out,
Oh so many, like I mean,

359
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,119
just like everybody who's reached out,
Like honestly, it just the fact that

360
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,000
people are reading it. I know
that sounds crazy, but it just like

361
00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:49,440
it's amazing to get any feedback about
it. I'll say that I've heard from

362
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,400
some of the coaching staff that it
was awesome to feel like they were reliving

363
00:24:53,400 --> 00:25:00,160
the season, which to me was
really great to hear because obviously that that

364
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,000
was the goal to capture exactly what
you know, what that season was like,

365
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,920
and you know, I want spoil
it, but just like for them

366
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,960
to say that, you know,
it was almost emotional for them to get

367
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:17,000
to have that experience again is amazing
to hear. And then from other writers,

368
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:21,319
I mean, Miaron Fader and Jeff
Pearlman, Jake Fisher, they did

369
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:26,039
blurbs for me. And again the
fact that those are three writers that I

370
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,160
like admire and the fact that they
even read the book is crazy to me.

371
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,759
So to hear them have like positive
things to say about it means the

372
00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:38,359
world. So it's been great getting
into just some of the more stuff that

373
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,519
happened in the book. One of
the sort of flashbol moments for me,

374
00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:47,519
I think it was of the chapter
write the the tryouts chapter. You get

375
00:25:47,519 --> 00:25:52,160
into a lot of just the unique
backgrounds, adversities, the ages of some

376
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,319
of these players, which one of
the Kelvin Davis, person who tried out

377
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,240
at open tryouts at sixty two years
old for the Birmingham Squadron. That was

378
00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:03,319
that's that'll probably stick with me forever. I don't think I'm ever gonna forget

379
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,119
Kelvin Davis his name from here on
out. It so like, was there

380
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,680
one story or player's background that really
just kind of stood out to you or

381
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:17,519
still is even just sticking with you
In particular, I mean, Calvin is

382
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,640
a great one. I mean just
the basics of his story. He's just

383
00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:27,440
sixty two years old, and the
like fascinating thing about him. He went

384
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:33,839
to tryouts, and you know,
I don't think he I can't even say

385
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,680
for sure that he didn't fully believe
that he was had a chance to make

386
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,400
it. Like this guy is just
the most optimistic, you know, confident

387
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:45,480
and like, I don't know,
he was just such a special person,

388
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:49,480
like the fact that he was there
and like had trained to go to tryouts

389
00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:53,440
and he was on the court with
guys who would play in the NBA that

390
00:26:53,559 --> 00:26:56,519
same season. I mean, he
was literally a sixty two year old sharing

391
00:26:56,559 --> 00:27:02,160
the court with future NBA players.
So that was amazing to see. And

392
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:07,599
I think another one, Ron Howard, he gets mentioned in that same tryout

393
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:15,440
chapter because he was another open tryout
player who made it to the NBA or

394
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,160
made it so I should say to
NBA training camp. His story is just

395
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:26,039
like I he was so close multiple
times to just like walking away from basketball.

396
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,319
The basics of his story or that
he was basically like about to quit.

397
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:36,079
This was two thousand and seven,
I want to say, and finds

398
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,519
out again, this is D League
days. It's really not like a known

399
00:27:38,599 --> 00:27:44,519
thing is told about, like D
League tryouts for the mad Ants, which

400
00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:49,519
is like a team that's close to
him, and it's kind of like persuaded

401
00:27:49,599 --> 00:27:55,400
to go. He shows up there
an hour late because he didn't realize that

402
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,279
it was in a different time zone. He drives over and shows up an

403
00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:02,640
hour late. As is, performs
well enough to get invited to the second

404
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,319
day of tryouts, but had no
idea that there was a second day of

405
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,960
tryouts, and he lived three hours
away and this was like it's like nine

406
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,759
pm at this point. So he
drives all the way home and sleeps for

407
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:18,160
like two hours, and drives all
the way back and plays well again on

408
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:25,359
like two hours of sleep. This
like random mad ands tryout and ends up

409
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,039
making the team and a year later
he's at training camp with the Box.

410
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:33,759
So there's just so many of these
like kind of insane like guys who are

411
00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:40,519
about to quit or yeah, just
like going through that grind and willing to

412
00:28:40,599 --> 00:28:44,680
kind of keep going to pursue their
dreams. Those stories are just to me,

413
00:28:44,839 --> 00:28:48,519
like so compelling. So there's a
bunch of you know, former G

414
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,839
League guys and obviously the guys I
covered in the book, and I think

415
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:59,319
all their stories are you know,
really really fascinating. So I think one

416
00:28:59,359 --> 00:29:03,640
of the things people and the mass
audience appreciate most or the wild stories that

417
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,599
can come out of situations like this
where being the G League and they know

418
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,200
that it's so far it's the pipeline
to the NBA, but it's also galaxies

419
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,960
away from the NBA. To the
lifestyle these guys are living is so different,

420
00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:19,440
and that it lends itself to these
just stories that you hear later on,

421
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,480
many of which are in the book, that are just like holy hell,

422
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,799
like what is going on here?
And you relayed. One of the

423
00:29:25,839 --> 00:29:30,880
anecdotes is just a SeeMe to be
when he was in the still calling out

424
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,359
the g League here, but he
forgets his shoes at the previous stop,

425
00:29:33,599 --> 00:29:36,680
doesn't have his shoes for the next
game, size eighteen. They can't get

426
00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:38,599
him shoes. He's used to being
with the Grizzlies who have someone taking care

427
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,640
of all that stuff, and so
he's just not able to play because DMP

428
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:48,359
doesn't have shoes. Basically, is
there just especially because you lived through some

429
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,839
of the a lot of the wild
travel stuff and there is there's just so

430
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,559
many good, I would say,
even bordering on just like harrowing stories in

431
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,000
here. Where One of the ones
that even heup with me towards the end

432
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:03,279
is I can't remember which chapter exactly
it was, but it was either keep

433
00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:08,720
going but where Malcolm Hill is driving
like five hours round trip to get tested

434
00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:12,759
for COVID. It's just like this
guy's making thirty seven thousand dollars a year

435
00:30:14,319 --> 00:30:15,720
to do this and it's just making
that type of trip. Is there just

436
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,599
any wild stories or anecdotes that are
in the book or maybe something you've heard

437
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,160
since or that you lived through during
this book that just stick with you the

438
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,720
most? And that's an unfair question
because you've parsed through this so much and

439
00:30:27,759 --> 00:30:32,119
you live through this so much.
But is there just one that is like

440
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:37,319
boggles your mind even now? I
think the one that I always like tell

441
00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:41,440
people the like one that stood out
to me the most when I first heard

442
00:30:41,519 --> 00:30:48,079
it was the anecdote about the shorts. Do you remember that one? Yeah?

443
00:30:48,119 --> 00:30:49,880
And this is just more at this
points to like kind of the absurdity

444
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,880
of the G League. But this
is just like the type of stuff that

445
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,240
happens in the G League, because
yeah, it's just like you're flying commercial,

446
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:03,599
you're understaffed, and it's under the
radar, So it's just like kind

447
00:31:03,599 --> 00:31:07,960
of all this stuff doesn't get talked
about or covered. But that story is

448
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:12,079
just that this is I want to
say, like in the two thousand so

449
00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:18,640
it's the early days. A team
is on a road trip and they get

450
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,920
there and they realize that they brought
all the jerseys, but they didn't bring

451
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,359
all the pairs of shorts. So
you'd think, no problem, like,

452
00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:30,519
let's we can get shorts in time
for the game. But that was not

453
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:37,160
realistic, and so the game has
to go on, and they obviously need

454
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,960
to wear uniforms from them when they're
on the court. So the solution was

455
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,559
that guys on the bench were actually
wearing their like compression shorts and then just

456
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,200
had towels wrapped around their waists and
so basically it just looked like all these

457
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,400
like dudes it just got out of
the shower. They're just sitting on the

458
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,839
sideline in their jerseys and then towels
and whenever like they checked in for somebody,

459
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,079
they literally just exchanged the towel for
the shorts. They would just trade

460
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:07,079
and then change right by the scorers
table before checking in, and like nobody

461
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:08,359
knew that. It's just like it
wasn't on TV or anything, so it

462
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,440
was just like, you know,
the However, many people, a couple

463
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,200
of hundred that were there got to
experience that, and then the story was

464
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:22,240
never told again, so that's insane. Obviously, I'll tell one that wasn't

465
00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:27,000
in the book that I really wanted
to get in there, but couldn't really

466
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:34,480
squeeze it in there. Excuse me. So a team was on a road

467
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,920
trip, and usually the home team
will organize for like a bus to shuttle

468
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:44,440
the guys from the airport and then
to and from like the arena and the

469
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:51,000
hotel. So the team was at
the hotel and the bus comes to pick

470
00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:54,240
them up to take them to the
arena, and they The player who told

471
00:32:54,279 --> 00:32:58,079
me the story was not sure if
it was a prank or if it was

472
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,519
a mistake, but the bus to
pick them up was a party bus.

473
00:33:01,079 --> 00:33:07,200
So they all get onto this bus
with bottles of champagne, stripper bowls like

474
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,279
like disco lights like crazy. So
it's all these dudes who are like literally

475
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:14,720
going to a game where they're about
to play in front of NBA scouts.

476
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,680
Could not be a more serious situation, Like they have their careers potentially on

477
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:27,960
the line here, and they pulled
up in a party bus and get off

478
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,799
with all their stuff and then play
this you know, massively important game and

479
00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:37,039
then get back on the party bus. With stripper bowls and stuff, and

480
00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:40,319
I just think that image of like
all these guys, you know, Caruso

481
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,960
was in the G League. Just
think of like Alex Caruso pulling up to

482
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,519
a game on a party bus.
Like I just think that's such like a

483
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:51,960
only in the G League type of
stories. So those were a joy to

484
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,319
hear about. And it was definitely
a question any time I spoke to any

485
00:33:54,359 --> 00:33:59,119
player was like, just tell me
your craziest G League story, and I

486
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,119
concluded, you know, and full
of them in the book. Yeah,

487
00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:06,079
there's a lot of great ones in
there. The travel ones are like so

488
00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:09,079
frustrating to read about because there's like
an element of just there's the one in

489
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:15,920
there where the driver of the bus
was too tired and so a team coach

490
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,840
ends up and it's just like that's
just infuriating, like to actually have to

491
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,599
read about that, this is what
they have to go through to get to

492
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,599
these games. They're leaving at such
wild times that they can't even find like

493
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:30,559
an open food place until two in
the morning and it's just some like fast

494
00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:35,239
food joint at that late at night, and they I like reading stuff like

495
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,719
that was we need to hear it
and they're very enlightening. But it almost

496
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,400
makes my blood boil that they have
to actually go through all of this just

497
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,039
to play a game for such a
little amount of money, even though the

498
00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:51,760
stakes are obviously incredibly high. No, it is wild, and like I

499
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,480
tell people like the it is obviously
one step away from the NBA. I

500
00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:59,400
mean, these guys are getting called
up or guys are being sent down you

501
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:05,280
know, every day practically, but
it just doesn't you know, it doesn't

502
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,159
feel like one step away. I
mean, the experience is so different.

503
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,639
And yeah, all those images,
I mean those are the ones that kind

504
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:15,679
of stick with you when you cover
the G League and you know, when

505
00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:20,079
you hear all these stories about because
I think it's obviously way better than it

506
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:23,280
used to be. It still probably
needs to get better, but you know,

507
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:28,119
the stories that kind of left a
lasting impression were those ones that were

508
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:31,280
from kind of the early days.
I mean that story about yeah, they're

509
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,760
driving through the middle of the night
because their flight got canceled and the drive,

510
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,960
I want to say, it was
like, you know, ten hours

511
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,360
because of the weather. Conditions obviously
weren't good, and they couldn't find a

512
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,039
place to eat, and they finally
find like a just like terrible fast food

513
00:35:46,119 --> 00:35:51,000
restaurant that probably was not the place
to eat at, but they were all

514
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:53,079
star big to eat there, and
then all of them get food poisoning for

515
00:35:53,079 --> 00:35:57,480
the rest of the bus ride.
The idea that like all of these guys

516
00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:00,039
are on a coach bus sick to
their stomachs, like, you know,

517
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,880
just because that's kind of what the
experience is like in the G League.

518
00:36:06,039 --> 00:36:08,920
Yeah, I tried my best to
include, you know, half of those,

519
00:36:09,039 --> 00:36:14,280
just to paint that picture of this
is what the grind looks like.

520
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,119
You know. People kind of have
an idea of like, yeah, this

521
00:36:19,199 --> 00:36:21,199
is you know, it's not the
glitz and glamour of the NBA, but

522
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,480
I don't think they really grasp just
how arduous and you know, insane that

523
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:30,719
grind can be. So yeah,
everyone iving sort of understands this about the

524
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:36,400
G League were it's viewed as this
stepping stone to something else for everyone involved,

525
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,679
including the coaches, like they want
it to be a temporary stop,

526
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:43,199
and so it's just known. But
I think what struck me it was pretty

527
00:36:43,199 --> 00:36:45,559
early in the book. It was
in the Winning Matters chapter, and then

528
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:51,079
it becomes this reoccurring theme throughout the
book is acknowledging that, but then also

529
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,559
trying to build the Birmingham squadron in
the image of an actual team that cares

530
00:36:55,559 --> 00:37:00,960
about winning what's actually happening on the
court and not necessary. Yes, everything's

531
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,440
framed through this is what can get
you to the NBA, but you have

532
00:37:04,559 --> 00:37:07,320
basketball games to win if you want
the attention that will get some of these

533
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:14,760
players to the NBA. Did it? Was it surprising at all for it

534
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,519
to be such an open ended or
not open end it, but such an

535
00:37:17,599 --> 00:37:22,400
open point of discussion, like among
the you know, the coaches in the

536
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:23,679
RUSS where they just yeah, now
it's like you guys don't want to be

537
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,679
here, but like we need to
figure this out anyway. For sure,

538
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,519
I think it you have to.
I mean, you have to acknowledge it,

539
00:37:31,559 --> 00:37:36,880
you have to talk about it.
And I think like people in the

540
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,400
G League will tell you, like
the G League, like the people will

541
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,280
say the G League is the place
that nobody wants to be because truly nobody,

542
00:37:44,559 --> 00:37:47,599
nobody's goal is to be there.
They all have ambitions of going uh

543
00:37:47,679 --> 00:37:53,760
to the NBA or playing at just
a higher level. And so yeah,

544
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,800
I think if you don't acknowledge that
off the bat like that it's just not

545
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,159
gonna work. I mean, everybody
knows that, you just have to talk

546
00:38:01,199 --> 00:38:07,119
about it. And I think to
your point about like you know, they

547
00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:09,920
still have basketball games to win,
I think what surprised me is just how

548
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:17,039
much winning is important to scouts.
And I think that that obviously is what

549
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,400
creates that kind of you know,
it all kind of works together because if

550
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,039
you are able to communicate to these
players that which is true I mean from

551
00:38:27,079 --> 00:38:30,199
my experiences following it and seeing the
players getting called up, like if you're

552
00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:34,639
able to communicate with these players that
if we win games, if we play

553
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,519
team basketball, if you buy into
a role, if you play unselfish,

554
00:38:38,639 --> 00:38:43,199
if you are you know, a
good teammate, a positive presence in the

555
00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:47,440
locker room, those are the things
that lead to call ups. And I

556
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,320
think that if it was if you
know, I think in maybe the early

557
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,960
days it was a little different,
But if it was the case that like

558
00:38:54,199 --> 00:38:59,440
just players who put up big numbers
and like guys who average thirty or guys

559
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:04,960
who you know, we're running the
offense or getting double doubles were the guys

560
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,199
that got called up, then you
have a major problem where you have all

561
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:13,079
these guys just playing you know,
kind of showcase au type basketball. But

562
00:39:13,639 --> 00:39:16,320
the fact that you're able to show
these guys and communicate to them like winning,

563
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:22,719
Like that chapter says, winning matters
and winning is kind of, you

564
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,400
know, a way to get recognized, and that you know, obviously the

565
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:30,159
way to win is for us to
play as a team. I think it

566
00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:35,360
all kind of comes together. But
that how much that is emphasized did definitely

567
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,400
surprise me because it is I would
say the number one thing that because they'll

568
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,880
talk about all the time how to
get called up because everyone obviously is trying

569
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,599
to get called up, and that
you know, how to get called up

570
00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:52,800
is let's win some games and let's
play together and let's you know, get

571
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,960
noticed for doing the little things,
for doing you know, the right things

572
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:01,880
for playing team basketball. That the
players, at least in my experience covering

573
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,480
the squadron bought into that. And
then when you buy into that, you

574
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:09,760
know, that's when kind of good
things start happening for you. So yeah,

575
00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:15,119
it's definitely emphasized from day one that
that's the roads to the NBA.

576
00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:17,920
And then there's when they're towards the
end of the book and I probably will

577
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:24,320
pronounce his name wrong, but Coach
pan So he had this speech about Malcolm

578
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:29,079
Hill, so like we're still driving
home that point of doing the little bit,

579
00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:30,960
and like when you get to the
end of the book, like people,

580
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,719
that speech will resonate with you where
he's getting I think it was him

581
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,159
that was giving it right about the
Watson film session and they have like the

582
00:40:37,199 --> 00:40:40,000
montage of Malcolm Hill and all the
stuff that he's doing to reiterate that no,

583
00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:45,159
you scoring all this trump scratch creation, all these necessarily highlight or like

584
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:50,199
you know, box score like bonkers
box score stat lines aren't going to get

585
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,039
you to the NBA because they have
the guys that are getting those at the

586
00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:57,079
NBA level already. That really sticks
with you, like throughout the like even

587
00:40:57,119 --> 00:40:59,440
the way that it's framed is even
just a lot a lot of what the

588
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,239
coaches said this book. The way
that they were so blunt about it and

589
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:07,159
so passionate about it. And then
to frame Malcolm Hill getting that that two

590
00:41:07,159 --> 00:41:12,000
way contract from Chicago at the time, that was something that resonated with me,

591
00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:15,159
like even after them saying it a
bunch throughout the book, to sit

592
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,039
there and then communicate it to the
players to that level, which is something

593
00:41:17,079 --> 00:41:21,960
that even sticks with me now I'm
glad man, because you know, I

594
00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:25,119
felt like one of my concerns writing
the book was is this all getting you

595
00:41:25,199 --> 00:41:30,960
know, too repetitive? Because honestly, that that's what it is like throughout

596
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,280
the season. They're constantly reiterating the
same things, and I think that part

597
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,159
of the reason this is just not
getting it doesn't get through to certain guys,

598
00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:40,800
and you just got to keep like
you just got to stick on it

599
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,119
and just keep saying it over and
over again until guys get it. But

600
00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:47,920
I think, yeah, I think
that the fact that when Malcolm, you

601
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,280
know, gets called up, that
they're able to say, like, look,

602
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,039
this is this happened like you guys
saw it happen like this is evidence

603
00:41:54,119 --> 00:41:58,800
that that what we've been telling you
throughout the season works and that there is

604
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:04,719
a road beyond and you know,
just scoring a bunch of points or leading

605
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,840
the team in X, Y and
Z, you know, I think that

606
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:12,079
that is when it really starts to
resonate with players, is like when they

607
00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:15,719
can see it kind of live down
in front of them. So yeah,

608
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,239
that definitely that scene stuck with me, and I knew, like as soon

609
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,559
as it happened, I'm in the
film session, I'm like, this is

610
00:42:22,599 --> 00:42:25,760
a chapter like this is something that
I need to to come across clearly.

611
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:30,360
So I'm glad that that stuck with
you as well. Do you have any

612
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,000
sense of whether the because there's the
we I mentioned it earlier at the top

613
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,440
where they had that sort of players
only meeting and that was the moment that

614
00:42:37,519 --> 00:42:39,960
cemented, oh, okay, at
least some of these players are viewing it

615
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:45,159
as we're going to try and care
about the relationships we're building here. And

616
00:42:45,159 --> 00:42:47,599
then you have you mentioned, you
know, Joe Young organizing Team Dinners,

617
00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:51,760
and it does seem you mentioned some
group chats too throughout this. Do you

618
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,639
have any sense of weather is that
camaraderie that the squadron had during this season,

619
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,639
is that like par for the course
in the G League? Do you

620
00:42:59,679 --> 00:43:02,199
think you was like they stood out
in any way for that, because honestly,

621
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,000
this is the only G League team
out as much information on now,

622
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:07,639
so that stands out to me,
and I'm wondering, just because of the

623
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:13,119
nature of the G League, whether
that's actually common across all these other organizations.

624
00:43:14,079 --> 00:43:16,719
I think, I think it is
more common than you'd think nowadays.

625
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,679
But I think that I also got
lucky because I think that the team that

626
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:28,039
I was with specifically like really was
had great camaraderie. And I mentioned in

627
00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:31,719
the book that they had a bad
experience the coaching staff a few seasons prior

628
00:43:34,159 --> 00:43:37,039
because they kind of built the wrong
roster that didn't care about the right things

629
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:43,920
and wasn't as invested and dealt with
the team that was completely disjointed, And

630
00:43:44,519 --> 00:43:47,679
so that was kind of informed them
assembling this team. And I think,

631
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,440
like I fully understand that. I'm
sure people read this book and think,

632
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,039
like, were they really like that? It was really that, Like there

633
00:43:54,079 --> 00:43:58,440
was that camaraderie, they were that
together, and honestly, like that was

634
00:43:58,599 --> 00:44:00,320
That's how it was. Like I
was, like, I thought there was

635
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,800
going to be tons of fireworks.
I thought it was going to be you

636
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,559
know, I figured teams would clash, Like I just thought that was the

637
00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:12,280
nature of the G League. You
know, it's kind of just by nature

638
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,639
of it being a league that everyone
is trying to get out of, kind

639
00:44:15,639 --> 00:44:17,800
of like a cutthroat environment where it's
like guys are competing with each other.

640
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:24,639
But my experience was that these guys
care a lot about each other, and

641
00:44:24,679 --> 00:44:31,400
I think that there's a there's something
kind of unifying and like everyone having the

642
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:37,159
same dream and everyone having the same
goal because you'll see, like if a

643
00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:40,280
guy gets called up, like all
the other players will post about it on

644
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:45,480
social media congratulate him. Now,
I'm sure that they would prefer to be

645
00:44:45,519 --> 00:44:49,239
the guy who got called up and
would trade placing with that guy a second.

646
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,559
But there is like a camaraderie and
like just the chase, I think.

647
00:44:54,559 --> 00:44:58,679
And so guys do you know,
genuinely root for each other to make

648
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,679
it, and certainly when they're in
the NBA, Like I remember Zilend telling

649
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:06,639
me about watching Malcolm when he was
in the NBA and he's screaming at the

650
00:45:06,679 --> 00:45:09,840
TV and like, you know,
he's just like he's like a fan.

651
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,119
You know, he's trying to he
really wants to. You know, if

652
00:45:13,159 --> 00:45:15,920
he makes it, we all make
it type kind of mentality. So that

653
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:21,360
was like refreshing to follow and certainly
made it easier than you know, having

654
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,119
to write about that team that was
you know, at each other's heads and

655
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:30,599
stuff like that. So it's that
part was a lot easier. There's two

656
00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:31,639
other moments to that kind of drive
that home, and one I didn't want

657
00:45:31,639 --> 00:45:34,559
to spoil because it was one of
my favorite parts of the book. But

658
00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:37,800
there's just an injury at one point, and the response from the team to

659
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,599
that was like, that will stick
with you because again, you just wouldn't

660
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:42,519
expect it, because I mean,
you might not even expect it in the

661
00:45:42,599 --> 00:45:45,679
NBA all the time because it's so
competitive and it's a business. But like

662
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,599
that stuck with me. And then
I think it was it cheat him when

663
00:45:49,639 --> 00:45:52,440
Miles Powell ends up going to the
NBA, or was it like he's just

664
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,840
so excited and he acknowledges that,
like, yeah, I want to be

665
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:59,760
there too, but to see him
get there is just so like means so

666
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:01,480
much to me and that's so great. Am I Did I distort those?

667
00:46:01,519 --> 00:46:06,480
Yeah? No, that was that
was it. Miles Powell also just an

668
00:46:06,519 --> 00:46:08,679
insane story of him kind of coming
back from injury and getting called up to

669
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:14,559
the NBA, like right away,
this is during Omicron and yet it's just

670
00:46:14,599 --> 00:46:16,639
a It stood out to me that
like one of the first people he called

671
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:21,920
was Island, and you know,
these guys just met through basketball and he

672
00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:27,639
calls him like when he's still you
know, on the plane about to take

673
00:46:27,679 --> 00:46:30,360
off, he just got the news
and he's sobbing, and uh yeah,

674
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:36,320
I just think it's such a It
captures so much one like how much goes

675
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,480
into it and how emotional it can
be, and that that kind of bond

676
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:43,320
between the players because z Island,
you know, is jumping up and down

677
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,440
chearing for this dude, and uh, you know, it kind of means

678
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:51,320
that a spot got filt that Ziala
didn't get. So that definitely stood out

679
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,400
to me as well. Yeah,
the people buy the book and the Miles

680
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,400
Powell's just playing story too. That
was just read. That's that's one of

681
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,239
that I thought that's worth the getting
the book alone. So Omicron we've talked

682
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,880
about a few times now. The
g League is just to have to live

683
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,800
through it for an entire season is
just there's going to be all these curve

684
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:15,559
balls regardless. But now you're throwing
the Omicron variant into the equation. What

685
00:47:15,679 --> 00:47:19,639
was it like having to go through
all this cover this, you know,

686
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,320
the just the travel logistics from your
again you're living this with the players.

687
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:27,320
What was that entire experience like and
was there at any point, because as

688
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,880
someone who covering the NBA at this
time, I can't keep track of the

689
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,760
rosters at this point, Like there
are guys that I've never heard of that

690
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,159
are starting games and it's happening on
a daily basis. You have to relay

691
00:47:38,199 --> 00:47:40,199
so much this information in the book. By the way, this is a

692
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,880
tangent like that must have been exhaustive
having to like go through all these just

693
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,760
like other teams that weren't necessarily directly
related to the squadron, but it was

694
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:52,639
like tangentially related because of what it
meant. And so what was just that

695
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,760
entire experience like And as the quick
follow up to that is, was your

696
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,920
access or like the the finality,
like the production of this book ever in

697
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:06,960
jeopardy because of what was going on. I mean, the whole time was

698
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:16,480
like incredibly tense and very isolating,
and I was super anxious because the last

699
00:48:16,519 --> 00:48:21,639
thing I wanted was for me to
get COVID and then I'm around the team,

700
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:22,880
for me to put the team at
risk or any of these players at

701
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:30,079
risk because they were all so worried
about you know, this was this incredible

702
00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:35,480
opportunity the NBA was dealing with the
crisis and teams were decimated and they were

703
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,440
looking to the G League to you
for relief and calling up players left and

704
00:48:38,519 --> 00:48:43,599
right. So it's this massive opportunity
for g LE players, but it's also

705
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:50,159
like incredibly nerve racking, because like
the worst possible scenario is for you to

706
00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:53,079
get called up and then have that
kind of dream ripped away from you because

707
00:48:53,119 --> 00:48:57,920
you caught COVID, or to get
COVID during this stretch and then miss out

708
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,480
on you know, potential call ups. So guys are like excited, but

709
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:07,159
they're also like very nervous, and
that I think paralleled how I was feeling

710
00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:12,960
at the time. But I was
going through the same Like I was wearing

711
00:49:13,159 --> 00:49:20,480
a mask, I got a booster
when the team got boosters, I you

712
00:49:20,519 --> 00:49:22,440
know, was basically keeping my distance
during that stretch. I was getting tested

713
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:28,920
by the team and so even then
I was like very cautious during that period.

714
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,039
So it certainly hurt the access a
little bit just because like everything was

715
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:37,880
so crazy during that time. But
I will say that obviously, and you've

716
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:42,039
read the book, it did add
such a layer of like drama and intrigued

717
00:49:42,079 --> 00:49:46,760
to just this season. You know
that that was kind of when it started,

718
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,440
like I had something that I felt
like I could sell. Like again,

719
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,800
I hadn't sold the book yet,
this becomes like the year of the

720
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,920
G League. I mean, the
number of call ups, it was double

721
00:49:57,079 --> 00:50:01,400
the previous high just because of Omicron. So I think it was very much

722
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,400
the same experience the players were having
was experienced I was having when I was

723
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,480
like very nervous and very stressed,
but also like understood that this was like

724
00:50:08,519 --> 00:50:15,519
a massive opportunities is kind of the
I feel bad saying that because it was

725
00:50:15,519 --> 00:50:19,400
such a bad thing for you know, the world at large, but it

726
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:24,119
did kind of add such a layer
of drama and another kind of you know,

727
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:28,119
crazy thing to follow to this.
You know, it was kind of

728
00:50:28,119 --> 00:50:32,159
just a normal G League season,
so it was it kind of hold your

729
00:50:32,159 --> 00:50:36,559
breath for that full time and if
you can remember it kind of not that

730
00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:40,119
it passed, but it kind of
quieted pretty quickly. It was like a

731
00:50:40,159 --> 00:50:45,280
month of absolute chaos and then you
know, it's like mid December to mid

732
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,639
January, and then by like end
of January at least it's like a return

733
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:53,000
to somewhat normalcy. But I kind
of blacked out for a month there because

734
00:50:53,039 --> 00:50:58,280
like the players were all over the
place, and I was just like following

735
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,360
them and trying to stay healthy,
and you know, on all these flights,

736
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,000
and it was like, oh my
god, this is like this is

737
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,400
a disaster, but it's also incredibly
exciting, So all the emotions, man,

738
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,239
but it was It definitely changed the
course of the book, and I

739
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,280
think added something to it that enabled
me to eventually sell it. So yeah,

740
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,360
and I didn't even think about this
coming into this interview, But so

741
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:22,920
I'm in the middle of the book
and you're hearing about all these other G

742
00:51:23,039 --> 00:51:28,679
League players being called up, but
you're invested in the squadron during this book,

743
00:51:28,679 --> 00:51:30,440
like that's the like you're reading it. You're invested them, like what

744
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:31,760
are these come on? One of
these guys gonna get called up? When

745
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,199
is it their turn? So you
immediately go from that suspense to then you

746
00:51:36,199 --> 00:51:37,519
know, dealing with Malcolm Hill or
Island Sheet I'm gonna called up? It

747
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:39,199
was like, well, are they
gonna have COVID and they're not gonna be

748
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:43,679
able to play? And so there
was that like not necessarily something I detected

749
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,639
while I was reading it, but
you do transition from Amaicron just in the

750
00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:51,199
background of like such a huge portion
of this entire thing. So you're right,

751
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,880
it's you hate framing as an opportunity
or like, but it's it's an

752
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,320
important theme and I think it does
help the compelling nature of the book.

753
00:51:58,519 --> 00:52:01,000
How do you keep your own sanity
throughout this process? Is it? Did

754
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:05,119
the insanity help at all? Where
maybe it's because you just didn't have like

755
00:52:05,159 --> 00:52:07,880
a moment to stop breathe and think
about it, but like you're living a

756
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:12,320
pretty isolated lifestyle at this point yourself, and so how did you not go

757
00:52:12,599 --> 00:52:16,360
absolutely, you know, off the
wall. Maybe I did a little bit,

758
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,599
I don't know. I think it. I think it does. There

759
00:52:21,679 --> 00:52:24,239
is something I will say. You
look back at it and it is like

760
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,400
how did I kind of hold it
together? And I'm not gonna say I

761
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,519
did a great job of doing that, because I was definitely stressed and running

762
00:52:30,559 --> 00:52:37,079
all over the place. And but
I think especially like when you're like I

763
00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:40,960
had a clear goal in mind.
I was super passionate about it, and

764
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,880
the whole thing was like really exciting
for me. So like I as I'm

765
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,400
going through this and as I'm like
dealing with all these kind of random things

766
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,440
that pop up and kind of making
these decisions on a whim. I kind

767
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:57,599
of do have that in the back
of my mind, like this is this

768
00:52:57,679 --> 00:53:00,960
is all going to hopefully work out, and you know, this is also

769
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:06,519
what I signed up for. So
it went by. I mean there were

770
00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:08,719
moments when, for sure, like
I moved down there, I didn't know

771
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:14,239
anybody. It was very lonely,
isolating. By the end, I was

772
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,000
ready to come home, for sure. But like as a whole, it

773
00:53:17,079 --> 00:53:22,760
went by incredibly fast because it just
was like there was something going on every

774
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,039
day. There was something to do. Every day. There was you know,

775
00:53:25,079 --> 00:53:29,920
a team event, a game,
a practice. Guy got called up.

776
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,320
Now I'm on a flight to Miami. You know, now I'm going

777
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:37,480
to Atlanta, like he's back here. Like I just was constant. I

778
00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:40,719
was just on alert the entire time. And then kind of blinked and seven

779
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:44,800
months had passed and I was moving
back to New York with all this material.

780
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:50,800
So I would say it was it
was like insane for seven months.

781
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,519
It took a little break and then
had to write the book, so that

782
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:59,519
it was like insane for you know, another four months, but all in

783
00:53:59,559 --> 00:54:05,920
the end like incredibly rewarding and just
super fortunate that it worked out. One

784
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:10,559
of the things this book just the
fantastic job of highlighting, is the disparate

785
00:54:10,639 --> 00:54:15,199
lifestyles between the NBA and then the
G League. It made And I don't

786
00:54:15,199 --> 00:54:17,480
even know if this was its intention, And so I'll make clear everything I'm

787
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:22,239
saying is my thoughts on this.
I was getting so angry at some of

788
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,639
the things I was reading where the
G League showcase in particular, like that

789
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:29,320
segment of the book where yes,
I understand you don't you don't know who

790
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,679
these executives are, these scouts are, that these all these employees from teams

791
00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:35,360
are. You don't want them seeing
you out in Vegas party. I get

792
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,199
that element of it. But you
don't want them seeing you eating Chick fil

793
00:54:38,199 --> 00:54:42,599
A when they don't pay you enough
to be eating these five story meals.

794
00:54:42,599 --> 00:54:45,679
But they don't want to see you
holding in energy drink when how else are

795
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,679
you supposed to And I mean I
consume a lot of energy drinks, but

796
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,360
like, how else are you supposed
to be standing when you're going through all

797
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,199
this travel, when you're going through
this hectic schedule, when you're practicing so

798
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,960
much, when you're reading about these
guys who are still getting up to get

799
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,800
in their early workouts. It's just
like, did that strike you at all?

800
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,239
You're going through this and hearing these
things, and was it you know,

801
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,119
at any point tougher you to remain
in partial on that thing where it's

802
00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:10,239
yeah, I think you even mentioned
this podcast, Like yes, they have

803
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,559
to like do a better job to
improve these conditions. And the NBA did

804
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:17,960
a victory lap when they raised G
League salaries above like forty grand a year

805
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:22,159
ago whatever it was. It's like
that's fucking nothing. And I understand that

806
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,360
these players are not the drivers of
the revenue for these organizations, but like

807
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:30,360
if this is actually a pipeline in
the NBA, it just feels like there

808
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:35,519
should be more resources in place to
make life not necessarily lavish, but at

809
00:55:35,559 --> 00:55:40,440
least more palatable or like navigable for
these guys. I think no question that

810
00:55:40,559 --> 00:55:46,519
like resources could be better, the
pay could be better, and like yeah,

811
00:55:46,559 --> 00:55:50,880
like even then, it's increased,
like since the G League union was

812
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,639
formed, it has gone up I'm
not gonna say significantly, but it has

813
00:55:52,679 --> 00:56:00,440
gone up dollars. So I mean
they are trying to improve it, and

814
00:56:00,599 --> 00:56:04,199
it definitely does need to be improved. And one of the core themes that

815
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,880
I hit on in the book is
the idea that like all of these guys

816
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:12,679
could be making more money overseas.
Yeah, that that's like a huge element

817
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,960
of this, Like they're all sacrificing
to be in the G League. I

818
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,920
think one, like to your first
point, there needs to be like a

819
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:25,239
bigger appreciation I think across the board
from basically anybody, fans, reporters,

820
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:30,239
whatever, just for like how much
goes into this pursuit of the NBA.

821
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:35,960
I mean again that idea that like
you can't even really be seen eating certain

822
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,280
things, you have to be thinking
about how people are seeing you. It

823
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:44,559
goes way deeper in that. I
mean energy on the bench. Don't be

824
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:47,920
late ever, be early for everything. What's your temperament on the court?

825
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:52,239
Are you not hustling back? Are
you arguing foul calls? Like scouts actually

826
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:57,800
nitpick at those things because they have
these massive lists and they're just trying to

827
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,239
narrow them down because players are so
you know, they're not interchangeable, but

828
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:07,079
they're close to interchangeable. They're pretty
similar in level and fit and all these

829
00:57:07,159 --> 00:57:10,079
kind of things. So like they're
looking for an excuse to basically cancel you

830
00:57:10,119 --> 00:57:15,960
out, so you can't afford to
make any mistakes, and like mistakes on

831
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:20,280
the court, sure, but mistakes
in any kind of like area of life,

832
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:24,400
like just in your diet, in
your work habits, you know,

833
00:57:24,519 --> 00:57:29,760
are you out too late? Are
you know things that like any of the

834
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:34,519
stuff that could come out, it
could definitely be the difference between you making

835
00:57:34,519 --> 00:57:37,840
it and not making it. So
one, there just needs to be that

836
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,880
understanding and that appreciation, I think, so I hope that the book captured

837
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:45,960
that. And two, yeah,
I think that like from the player perspective

838
00:57:45,199 --> 00:57:51,280
the important thing and I do think
that that this is the case. But

839
00:57:52,519 --> 00:57:57,039
players just need to be aware of
this is how realistic your chances are of

840
00:57:57,079 --> 00:57:59,840
making it. Is it worth it
for you to be going through this grind

841
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:06,360
like that could be at least mitigated
or reduced, Like if they get paid

842
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,760
more, the conditions improve. But
like I think there is an understanding for

843
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:15,079
most of these G League guys coming
in like I have a shot or this

844
00:58:15,159 --> 00:58:20,400
is what I'm sacrificing, Like players
and coaches, executives, agents, I

845
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,840
think that they're pretty transparent with these
guys about like just what they're getting themselves

846
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:28,480
into what they're sacrificing. So you
want to have a lot of these guys

847
00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:31,280
in the G League, like,
you know, completely clueless as to what

848
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:36,920
their situation is, if that makes
sense, So like that would be I

849
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,960
think, you know, it would
be harder to stomach if it was like

850
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:45,559
these guys don't even realize like kind
of what they're getting into and what's on

851
00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:49,320
the table for them, what they're
sacrificing. But for sure, like it

852
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,440
is, it is crazy to see
up close, like how different the lifestyle

853
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:57,000
is, and you know, those
disparities between the G League and the NBA.

854
00:58:57,159 --> 00:59:00,920
That's what makes everything even more wild
is some of the these guys have

855
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:05,599
all these lucrative six seven figure offers
that they could get playing overseas and yet

856
00:59:05,639 --> 00:59:07,679
they're here. And there's a great
chapter which I won't get into detail here,

857
00:59:07,719 --> 00:59:10,880
but you kind of have the contrast
between two players were one who just

858
00:59:12,119 --> 00:59:15,679
spent so long in the Glee to
get his taste of NBA action versus someone

859
00:59:15,719 --> 00:59:17,880
who decided, like, no,
I'm going to provide for my family and

860
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,920
make all this money. And that
was just like to see and then they

861
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:23,360
go back and forth. It was
that was a great part of the book

862
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:28,280
as well. And I think to
the original question I have for you,

863
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:32,280
one of the biggest compliments I can
pay this book is whenever you consume something

864
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:37,119
or hear something or read something that
makes you rethink maybe how you're covering or

865
00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:42,960
reacting to what's happening in Let you
use the NBA basketball specifically, it's happened

866
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,719
to me a bunch, and like, I'm snarky as fuck on Twitter,

867
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,920
but like the tenor of my jokes
have changed, where like I make sure

868
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:52,760
it's not personal and you don't want
to inadvertently take away from someone's work ethic

869
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,320
if you're trying to make fun of
something that happens. And this is one

870
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:59,239
of those books that will make you
rethink any jokes that you might make about

871
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:00,679
having a no name like a no
name player when you see them, or

872
01:00:00,719 --> 01:00:04,559
jokes you might make about the G
League or the level of competition when it's

873
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,440
I've even probably written offhanded things about
not this year, but to use this

874
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:10,880
year's pistons as an example about them, like needing to be relegated or something.

875
01:00:12,199 --> 01:00:14,000
This is one of those books that'll
stop and make you think, like

876
01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:17,360
yo I probably won't disparage the G
League in that way, like so off

877
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:22,679
handedly because of what these players are
going through and how much it just how

878
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,960
like the level of sacrifice that they're
all making to some extent, even if

879
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,559
those lucrative offers aren't on the table, they could be building in a career,

880
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:32,119
a building out a career in another
industry, or doing something some of

881
01:00:32,159 --> 01:00:36,840
these guys were doing at points anyway. So that is one of the biggest

882
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,480
comments, Like that sticks with you
just like it changes the way you look

883
01:00:39,519 --> 01:00:43,800
at even yes, everyone knows technically
what the G League is all about,

884
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,920
Like this book really gives you an
inside look about what these players are going

885
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:51,960
through, and it's just in so
many instances it's just the word for me

886
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,159
to describe it as unfathomable. I'm
certainly not built for it. And there

887
01:00:55,159 --> 01:00:59,719
are these guys who they're either doing
it for years on end or they're also

888
01:00:59,719 --> 01:01:01,599
doing it years on end while they
have it'd be different if it was a

889
01:01:02,639 --> 01:01:06,079
last option for them and to get
to the NBA. Maybe it is,

890
01:01:06,119 --> 01:01:08,239
but like no, a lot of
these players have some pretty lucrative alternatives on

891
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:12,760
the table and they're choosing to go
through this, which boggles my mind even

892
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,960
more. Me too, man,
I mean, well, thank you,

893
01:01:15,679 --> 01:01:19,519
And that definitely stuck with me too. And I think like there's just the

894
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:25,920
like even just for like fans to
for me at least to have an appreciation

895
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,239
for, like even like what the
guys who come from the gleue are doing

896
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,480
on an NBA court. Like I
think like I had a tendency for sure,

897
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:37,320
and like look this it's like it's
Twitter like whatever, It's like people

898
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,119
can say whatever. But I definitely
had a tendency to look at certain guys

899
01:01:39,119 --> 01:01:43,360
on the court and be like what
is he doing? You know, why

900
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:49,199
is he out there? Like how
is this guy valuable? And you know,

901
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,559
I think you see it with guys
like like Patrick Beverley for example,

902
01:01:52,559 --> 01:01:55,840
where it's like, you know,
he can be a past and he's doing

903
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:00,760
all these things that fans might look
at and be like this is annoying,

904
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:06,119
like what you know, what what
value does he actually bring? And the

905
01:02:06,119 --> 01:02:08,800
more you're around fringe guys and you
know, obviously Beverly's not a fringe guy

906
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,920
now, but guys who have carved
out roles, who you know, non

907
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,639
traditional roles, you realize that that's
how Beverly is. That's how he's sticking

908
01:02:16,679 --> 01:02:21,119
in the NBA, that's how he's
earning these contracts. That's what NBA coaches

909
01:02:21,199 --> 01:02:24,519
value. Like when he's doing these
things, it's because that's what his role

910
01:02:24,599 --> 01:02:31,280
is. And that's like, there's
a different appreciation when you see you know,

911
01:02:32,719 --> 01:02:38,719
PJ. Tucker or Alex Caruso or
Gary Payton or I'm trying to think

912
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:42,920
of an example of guys who,
like, you know, barely you know,

913
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,119
PJ. Tucker just stand in the
corner. He'll shoot threes and he'll

914
01:02:45,119 --> 01:02:50,519
do all the dirty work. And
yeah, I mean not that people didn't

915
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:53,840
have an appreciation for that game or
his game before, but I think it's

916
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:59,840
a bigger appreciation when he was actually
taking those threes from That's true, that's

917
01:03:00,599 --> 01:03:04,039
uh, I think I think it's
just a different level once you see it,

918
01:03:04,119 --> 01:03:07,119
and hopefully once you read this book
you realize it, like there is

919
01:03:07,519 --> 01:03:10,719
a lot of sacrifice that goes into
just like those guys being willing to do

920
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:16,639
those things and being willing to accept
those roles. So for sure, it

921
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:22,559
changed my perspective of obviously the G
League and uh the NBA and basketball in

922
01:03:22,599 --> 01:03:25,719
general. So hopefully it does the
same for other people. Uh so was

923
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:30,920
it easy then, like, once
this whole process is over, was it

924
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:35,400
easy to sell the book after what
happened? Was that still like a challenge?

925
01:03:35,639 --> 01:03:37,679
Still a challenge for sure? I
mean it was. I was able

926
01:03:37,679 --> 01:03:40,039
to get an agent, which helps
a lot, and shout out to my

927
01:03:40,079 --> 01:03:45,679
agent, Joseph Perry. He was
great. And yeah, I mean that

928
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,639
that certainly helps because they you know, they do a lot of work for

929
01:03:49,679 --> 01:03:54,559
you. But first time author a
niche subject like the G League, not

930
01:03:54,639 --> 01:03:58,840
players that are well known, Like
I knew that going in and it was

931
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:00,519
going to be a massive challenge.
But it did still take a lot of

932
01:04:00,519 --> 01:04:05,760
time to get a publisher on board. But yeah, shout out to University

933
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:11,199
New Rascal Press. They they believed
in it. And again the support has

934
01:04:11,199 --> 01:04:15,119
been amazing. So uh yeah,
I'm super grateful and thankful that somebody took

935
01:04:15,119 --> 01:04:18,360
a chance on it and that people
are enjoying it and reading it. So

936
01:04:19,519 --> 01:04:24,679
now, Mieran did tell me that
you already know that you want to write

937
01:04:24,679 --> 01:04:27,920
another book, which, by the
way, I'll liken this too. Even

938
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:32,039
if you're passionate about this, like
if you're asking a marathon runner immediately after

939
01:04:32,039 --> 01:04:34,519
they crossed the finish line, like
what do you want? When are you

940
01:04:34,519 --> 01:04:39,559
going to run your next marathon?
And so I've like when people ask actors

941
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:42,440
coming out of like these long series
or these authors who are going through the

942
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,880
process running entire book, like well, when's your next book or what's it

943
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:46,000
going to be? About the fact
that you know you want to write another

944
01:04:46,039 --> 01:04:51,000
book after going too that process impresses
me to know you absolutely someone that would

945
01:04:51,079 --> 01:04:54,199
be no, I'm never going to
write another book, Like no, this

946
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:58,719
is way too much work. Okay, there's an element of like you just

947
01:04:59,079 --> 01:05:02,800
you kind of like you want to
capitalize on the little momentum you get because

948
01:05:03,039 --> 01:05:08,320
to like pitch another one or to
keep going. I'm sure as soon as

949
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:11,639
like I'm getting into the actual weeds
of doing the next book, I'll be

950
01:05:11,679 --> 01:05:15,440
like what what was I thinking?
But like right now, for sure it

951
01:05:15,639 --> 01:05:17,960
Book one didn't deter me. And
I think the response to book one and

952
01:05:18,039 --> 01:05:21,920
just like having it out there it
kind of gives you like a little burst,

953
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:27,480
but like I don't want people to
get like get it messed up,

954
01:05:27,519 --> 01:05:30,599
like it is definitely kind of torture
going through it a little bit, but

955
01:05:31,039 --> 01:05:34,440
you know it's rewarding to I mean
I had an anxiety Justsue you talking about

956
01:05:34,639 --> 01:05:38,480
after being around the team for seven
eight months and having to like go and

957
01:05:39,239 --> 01:05:42,039
pour over all this material and write
about it. It's just like that's giving

958
01:05:42,079 --> 01:05:45,360
me anxiety the thought of that.
But if you could, your next book

959
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:49,400
can be about anyone anything, any
subject, source material you want. What

960
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:53,800
would you as right now? What
would you choose if you could? So

961
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:58,199
have? Haven't I a couple ideas
kind of working a little bit? You

962
01:05:58,199 --> 01:06:00,440
don't need to bulgeme here. Yeah, no, I'm down to talk about

963
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:04,400
them a little bit. Maybe someone
will hear this, But I think,

964
01:06:05,079 --> 01:06:06,920
I mean, first of all,
I think it would be so cool.

965
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:11,079
I've always had this kind of like
dream of like turning life from the g

966
01:06:11,159 --> 01:06:15,119
into like a series where I'm a
follow like four different players. And like,

967
01:06:15,199 --> 01:06:17,360
again, this would be super tough, I think, because just selling

968
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,280
the G League over and over again
is probably a challenge, but you know,

969
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:24,360
having like four different players because every
story is very unique, and again,

970
01:06:24,639 --> 01:06:27,760
four different players trying to get to
the NBA. What's their journeys like?

971
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,480
What are their journeys like? And
I think the next book could be

972
01:06:30,639 --> 01:06:33,320
you know, less history and more
just like getting into the weeds of like

973
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:40,119
pursuing that dream. And then the
other one, just to tease it a

974
01:06:40,159 --> 01:06:44,639
little bit, is focused on another
pipeline of the NBA, and it's like

975
01:06:44,679 --> 01:06:49,800
a little bit, I guess it's
focusing more on international basketball. So yeah,

976
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,280
I guess I'll leave it to that. But just like something like another

977
01:06:54,760 --> 01:07:01,639
increasing like increasingly important pipeline of the
NBA that, yeah, it's undercovered,

978
01:07:01,639 --> 01:07:05,159
I would say at this point.
So that and I think even that comes

979
01:07:05,199 --> 01:07:08,280
across in the book a little bit. I think some people be surprised to

980
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:11,760
know, like how much money some
of the international leagues will pay some of

981
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,920
these guys. And I think he's
known actually, like the extent that it's

982
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,440
known the WNBA players, like how
much of a disparity there was between their

983
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,880
WNBA salaries and what they can make
overseas. But it's not talked about as

984
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:26,639
much with the NBA. I think
in part because the G League exists,

985
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:28,679
and so a lot of people to
look, awah, why wouldn't you just

986
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:30,320
go to the G League rather than
go overseas. It's like no, like

987
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,639
for a lot of these guys,
there's a lot of money overseas, So

988
01:07:32,719 --> 01:07:36,480
that would be a fascinating read for
sure. I hope so man, I

989
01:07:36,519 --> 01:07:40,840
hope, I hope publishers think the
same thing. But yeah, I mean,

990
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,920
uh, like to your point,
like Joe Young, who's one of

991
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,639
the four main characters, he could
have made three million in China the season

992
01:07:46,639 --> 01:07:49,360
that I was with him, and
he accepted, you know, he got

993
01:07:49,639 --> 01:07:51,920
a bonus for Oh no, he
didn't. He was a drafted player.

994
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:56,760
So he's making less than forty K
for thirty seven grand instead of three million.

995
01:07:56,840 --> 01:08:00,760
Is it's a pretty big sacrifice.
Yeah, it's for sure, that's

996
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,440
a big one. So yeah,
and there's a lot of guys who are

997
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,199
doing, you know, not quite
that big of a jump because Joe was

998
01:08:06,199 --> 01:08:12,320
an NBA guy and he was established
in China, but certainly six figure contracts

999
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,840
in the euro League and you know
spread out throughout the world. Like even

1000
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:17,880
the one of the numbers that's I
mean, there's a few, there's a

1001
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:20,640
bunch of different numbers. One of
those like twenty thousand a month, because

1002
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:25,039
I think that's two months you just
made more than your entire G league salary.

1003
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:28,800
And then when these guys get these
ten day contracts. They've already doubled

1004
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:30,680
their G league salaries in ten days. It's like, how is that even

1005
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:34,319
possible? And some of them don't
even play. They just go up there

1006
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:38,359
ten days, they sit off the
bench, and they get paid double for

1007
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:43,560
a full grind, like a grind
of a season. And it wasn't Malcolm

1008
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,079
Hill. Was it Malcolm Hill or
was it Zilond Cheatham talking about the per

1009
01:08:46,119 --> 01:08:49,640
diem that they got and they were
living off that more than their G League?

1010
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:55,680
That was Squeaky Johnson. That was
the Yeah, that was I mean

1011
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:59,840
that story too where he's on the
plane and they hand out the per diems

1012
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,359
for like this little road trip and
it's like fifteen hundred dollars or something for

1013
01:09:02,399 --> 01:09:05,119
you know, a couple of days
on the road or something crazy, and

1014
01:09:05,159 --> 01:09:09,880
he just watches the players immediately starts
a gamp like to just bet the money

1015
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,039
right away on a card game.
They just throw it into the pot and

1016
01:09:13,199 --> 01:09:15,840
Squeaky's like putting this in his backpack. He's like I need this, Like

1017
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,359
I absolutely need this. This is
what I get on my like bi weekly

1018
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:23,399
checks in the D League. Yeah. I think that that illustrates again that

1019
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:28,600
disparity like to a t just him
being there and seeing how much it matters

1020
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:31,640
to them, they'll just bet it
right away. Crazy. Is there anything

1021
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,000
about the book I haven't asked about
or that you want to talk about it?

1022
01:09:34,039 --> 01:09:38,680
Maybe something that you wished more people
during these interviews asked about that that

1023
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,760
hasn't been asked that you want to
touch punk. No, Man, I

1024
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,399
think it'd be like pretty much covered
it. I mean again, I just

1025
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:50,439
think like a huge shout out to
uh, the organization and you know,

1026
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:53,880
all the people that I followed.
I think, like, I know I've

1027
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,479
said this throughout the interview, but
like me being able to have the access

1028
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,000
that I had and to be lucky
enough to be around the players that I

1029
01:10:01,039 --> 01:10:04,239
was around and the coaches that I
was around. Uh, that's that's what

1030
01:10:04,399 --> 01:10:08,279
enabled me to write this book and
to have the book that I have.

1031
01:10:08,399 --> 01:10:13,840
So yeah, any chance I can
get to kind of just express my gratitude

1032
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:18,239
to them and get to everyone who
supported the book and to you and to

1033
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:24,560
all the kind of podcasts I've been
on, it's been awesome. So I

1034
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:28,399
think that's the main thing. The
main message I would have, My main

1035
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:30,640
message is by the book being held
up on screen, if you're watching Life

1036
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:34,800
and the G. It is really
really good. This doesn't mean anything,

1037
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:39,520
but I do read books that don't
make it to the little setup I had

1038
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:41,760
behind me. This will be making
it to the setup because I found it

1039
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,800
was recommended to me by Miran,
so I won't pretend that I found it

1040
01:10:45,079 --> 01:10:47,600
on my own. I'm so glad
she recommended it. It is so so

1041
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:51,399
so so so so good and enlightening, so holding up again. Buy it

1042
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:55,239
Life and the G. The link
will be in the podcast and YouTube description.

1043
01:10:56,239 --> 01:11:00,199
Follow Alex on the Twitter machine at
alex Underscore Squad and spelled exactly as

1044
01:11:00,199 --> 01:11:06,399
the team that he owns no uh
at s q u A d r O

1045
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:11,399
N. If you write another book, I'll be purchasing it immediately and reading

1046
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,520
the best of luck to you and
thank you so much for coming on.

1047
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,199
And like I said, I can't
say enough good things about about it.

1048
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:18,880
Thank you man, it's my pleasure. I really appreciate you having me