What is krak a lac Infelow thermonuclear a efforts. I am a damp valley
coming at you with a very special fun and I believe it will be a
super entertaining episode. I got to speak with Alex Squadron. He's the author
of the book I'm holding up on screen now if you're watching Life in the
G Minor League Basketball and the Relentless Pursuit of the NBA. HAD a great
discussion with him this book, just his brief background. We get into a
lot of the process, some wild stories from it. I talked to Alex
about it. But it follows the Birmingham Squadron, who, despite having the
same name as Alex, he's not related to them in any way. I
don't know why people would necessarily think that, but that was a little fun
anecdote from the book as well, about him being last named Squadron and then
following a team that's called the Squadron. I did ask him about that.
He follows this team. He's with them the entire step of the way.
He is in meetings, in the locker room, he's in their draft war
room that wasn't really like a war room, as he describes that the access
they gave him was unprecedented. The work he did was fantastic. It really
sheds a light on the disparate lifestyles in the NBA versus the G League.
But you're also just getting a census to what's on the line for these players,
what's going on in their lives, some of the decisions that they're making
where they're passing on a lot of money Elsewhere Throughout the book, it does
follow what you would call four main characters in Zilon Cheatham, Malcolm Hill,
Jared Harper, and Joe Young. But there's just a lot of other stuff
in the book, whether it's coaches or management. The G League showcases is
highlighted. There's talks with past and present G leaguers. Andre Ingram wrote the
forward for this book. There's a lot of great stories in it. So
look, I get recommended books, and I don't necessarily you know, this
is recommended by Mere and Fader, who anyone who listens to this podcast knows
is one of my favorite writers of all time. The recommendation did not disappoint.
It will be going up behind me because it is that good. So
I would check it out. Definitely check out the conversation. The link to
buy it will be in the podcast and YouTube descriptions. I think you will
enjoy the discussion even if you don't end up buying the book, but please
support Alex. We have a great community here. Appreciate every single one of
you. Pick up the book for you, yourself or someone. It is
the holiday season again. Link in the podcast and YouTube description. Let's get
to talking with Alex Squadron, author of Life in the G Minor League Basketball
and the Relentless Pursuit of the NBA. Alex, Welcome to the Hardwar Knox
podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. As everybody knows from listening
to the intro, you are the author of Life in the G fantastic book
about life in the G League, minor league basketball and the Relentless Pursuit of
the NBA. Forward is by Andre Ingram. That was a fun forward to.
I asked you about that befo or even started so. I was so
excited that mister g Leigu himself was in there. I have so many questions.
This was a great book. I'll start with this. How the heck
are you doing? Man? Well, I'm doing great. Thank you so
much for having me As I told you before, I'm a huge fan of
the podcast, so this is super cool for me. Yeah. Man,
it's been uh, it's been crazy since the book came out, but everything's
gone well, so I can't complain. Book You Told Me came out in
October over under the number of interviews you've had to do. Setting it at
like a million, I'm gonna go over a million. I think I should
say I'm always not to do more. So if anybody's listening to this,
for sure, hit me up. It's been great. I mean it's exhausting
because you can never really do enough, and but it's a lot. As
soon as that book comes out, you just hit the ground running and it
really doesn't stop. It just keeps going. Has there been anything about the
sort of the gamut of interviews that I'm surprised? Is it having to talk
about yourself more? Is there any questions about the book that been thrown around?
Have just been like has the experience been what's surprised you most about sort
of running the gamut of that media interview experience following this? It's a great
question. I think, like I haven't done a lot of like on air
or like podcast type stuff. I've really just been you know, behind the
camera writing for most of my career, so I think I was pretty nervous
about doing all that stuff. And I think what surprised me is how quickly
you kind of get used to it. And I mean it helps that I'm
obviously super passionate about the book and about this subject and stuff like that,
but I was definitely anxious about just like doing any of the stuff. And
then you know, a couple of weeks go by and you start to get
into a rhythm and now it's like super fun. I love doing it,
and I definitely did not expect that to be you know, kind of my
takeaway after this stretch. So it's been great. Now, what prompted you
to buy and name a G League team? You acknowledge that right off the
bat in the book, which I think was important, but it was also
hysterical following the Squadron. You did tell me though, before we started that
the play actually thought you were a plant. Is that what you said?
It's hard to blame them. I mean, I just like kind of shows
up on kind of day when a training cabinet's like, this guy's gonna write
a book. About the team and oh yeah, his name is Alex Squadron
and the team's name is Birmingham Squadron. And there wasn't much else offered,
which was totally fine. I mean, I did want to be kind of
like a fly on the wall. I didn't want to, you know,
as much as possible. I wanted to kind of not be seen because I
wanted it to be exactly what the experience was if I wasn't there. So
it's hard to blame them for thinking like, this guy must have some affiliation
to the team, because my name is literally the name of the team.
But I do have to clarify here and then like right away in the book
that like, I am not connected to them anyway. It's like purely a
coincidence. I did choose them because of the name thing. That was definitely,
I would say the number one factor, because I just I knew I
wanted to follow a team, and then it was like kind of random,
like which one am I going to pick? And then it was just like,
all right, this would be kind of silly for me to ignore the
fact that one of them is my name. It's kind of like destiny or
it's telling me which one to choose, you know, so that was the
reason I initially chose them, But yeah, I had to clarify, or
I've had to clarify through all these interviews and to the team even when I
was down there that I'm I'm just a normal writer who happens to have the
same name as the team. You mentioned in the book that your dream was
to write a book, and you do have a pretty extensive background in sports,
But was there like a source inspiration or flashbull moment that made you want
to write about this topic which is just outlined in the interests. We haven't
gotten into too much in the plot just yet. It's like you're following this
g V team. There are the four main characters, but you cover you
know, there's so many different between the coaches in the front office and you're
talking to family members, you're talking about past G League players. Is there
was there like a flash bulb inspiration for like this is the type of book
or exact subject matter I want to write, Slash cover. I think that
I don't think there was like a flashball moment. Wasn't like a you know,
I was just watching the G League one day and was like, oh
my God, it wasn't nothing like that, but because I really want,
like it was my dream, like I said, to write a book,
and so I was really searching for a subject and basketball was always like my
area of expertise. And there's been a lot of basketball books, more than
most people realize, and so there's just not that many subjects that haven't been
covered at all. And the G League like shockingly just like there's very little
coverage of it, and every year it was growing and it was becoming more
and more important to like NBA teams, and there were just more and more
players coming from the G League and having a major impact in the NBA.
And it just felt like the timing was like perfect, like no one's done
this. I want to write my first book. You know, we'll get
into this, I'm sure, but like I know, the access would probably
be a lot easier than what I can get to NBA teams, And so
I think all of those things kind of combined to push me to do it,
just like the fact that there was nothing there and yeah, I could
kind of be the first one to you know, to capture this experience and
to document kind of the journey of guys trying to get to the NBA.
So yeah, no flashball moment, but definitely like once I decided that that
was kind of the route I wanted to take, and I started like looking
into you know, revisiting Andre Ingram's story or you know, all these G
League guys and they're kind of inspiring stories. That was when I was like,
Okay, I got something here, like this could really be something compelling
and yeah, like I said, something that's never been done before. So
those were the major factors. It becomes clear throughout the book, and I
think that's like the most exciting hook of the book is like you were with
this team for the end, Like you were there, you were on the
ground. But I was also told that you made this decision to get that
access to follow this team at a time where the pandemic was just still going
on. You make this decision and you did not, if I'm correct,
did not have a book deal lined up, which is just that takes some
fucking gall that I envy beyond all reason. What went into that decision,
How tough of a decision was it. Was there anyone who like kind of
influenced you or helped you come to like, No, I'm going to do
this or was it you know, I really want to be an author.
I want to write a book. This is what I want to write about.
So I'm just I'm just going to do this. Well, first of
all, thank you so much. I guess I should say the first person
I should name is Ben Osborne, who was the editor in chief at SLAM
when I first started working at Slam, and he's always been like a mentor
of mine and just a huge like impact on my career. He was like
the first person I called when I had the idea and he knew that I
wanted to, you know, get into writing books, and I outlined everything,
told him I didn't have a deal and kind of was expecting him to,
you know, let me know the risk and you know, walk me
through kind of the pros and cons, and he was just like, go
for it, like this is what you want to do. It's a great
idea. I think that you know there's gonna be something there, like you
should take the leap. And that was really for me, Like if he
says like jump, I'll do it. So he was a huge influence.
And then there's been so many writers like that just like inspired me or supported
me along the way. Mirror Fader, our mutual friend has been like incredible.
Jeff Pearlman's always been like like an inspiration to me and his career.
And a couple of guys who came through Slam your Own Whitesman, Jake Fisher,
those guys wrote books. And then I think like going down there again,
just having like my family, my friends supporting me, believing in the
idea, and you know, I think it was less like I mean,
obviously I believed in myself to be able to do it, but I think
it was more like I really believed there would be a story there, Like
I just knew that there were Like the risk was obviously big that that I
wouldn't get a book, but I just knew that there would be at least
a compelling like narrative to follow, and so if there was that, then
you know, then the kind of burden falls on my shoulders to deliver something
that you know, honors that story. So yeah, I mean it the
risk made it a little uh nerve wracking for sure, but it was also
super you know fun, and to be able to just like get that access
and be so fully embedded, like you know, I kind of told myself
throughout the process, regardless of what happens, this has been just such an
awesome experience. So luckily it worked out too sore a book wasn't incredible?
Well, so you how do you go about getting that access? Was it
surprisingly easy? Was it challenging? Was there an element of the you know,
Birmingham squadron, like someone wants this much access to Yeah? Sure,
why the help? Like? What was that process? Sort of like I
would say, shockingly easy? Uh? And I think I think I got
I got lucky. I mean, part partly it's just because it's the G
League and they don't get as much coverage. And I think players coaches at
that level are just eager to tell their stories because they haven't really gotten a
chance to. But the the process was really like I I was going to
move down there from New York, so like I was going to basically pick
up my life and completely, uh you know, just restart for seven months.
So before I did that, I wanted to make very clear that like
this is what I need, Like I I'm not going to come down there
if I don't get this access. So they asked me to make a list
of everything that I wanted to be a part of and so I did that,
and yeah, like a week later they were like, this is all
approved, This all looks good to us. And I think it was even
better than what I had outlined on that list because the team I ended up
kind of becoming, you know, obviously becoming a part of the team,
and as the season goes on, players start to open up, coaches start
to open up, and then the access becomes even more. So, Yeah,
that's a huge, like shout out to the Squadron organization, the Pelicans,
the affiliate because I think it, you know, went all the way
up there and then just I think it's just speaks to, you know,
how little attention is paid to the G League that they were willing to give
me a really full access. I mean I film sessions, coaches meetings,
team dinners, I traveled with them, so it was pretty much anything that
the team had going on, assuming I was available, I was there.
So that was a I was a treat. I was super lucky. What
was the whether it was fascinating, surreal, or most useful part of that
access Because there are a bunch of moments in the book that stick out where
it's like oh he was in the room for that. And the one that
was the panic Button chapter when there's the the player's only meeting type thing,
was just like wow, like the fact that you even close proximity to that.
But was there any like what was the most useful aspect of having that
type of access. I think film sessions, Like I just think that when
you're like I've been writing about basketball for you know, my entire professional career
and a fan of basketball since I was you know, two, and I
feel like I felt like I had a good sense for you know, like
I would understand a little bit of what was going on, and then you're
standing in there and you're watching them kind of break down film and you realize
that like you know nothing. I mean, just like it's a different language,
the amount that just goes into I mean just like every single detail.
I mean they break down everything, and yeah, I mean just like you
really can't hide it on an NBA court. I mean when we look at
a player and say maybe like oh, you know, what is he doing
or over kind of criticizing him, there's a lot of things that he's doing
right that we're not seeing. And I'm sure there's a lot of stuff that
he's probably doing wrong that we're not seeing, but we don't really know how
he's doing in a lot of cases. I mean, obviously there's certain cases
where you can tell, but it's just the amount the attention to detail and
you know how much goes into every little thing that's to me was the most
enlightening and you know, the most fascinating. To see him close, I
would have found the I think the film sessions for sure, I probably would
have Those would have gotten tedious for me because I would have hate not knowing
what's going on all the time, Like I don't like to be exposed for
how much I don't know. I want to be able to bullshait my way
throughout, like sure have to sit through. Those would have been too briven
force maybe too self reflective. I think I tried like right away, like
I'm like all right, so there are day one, I'm like, okay,
what is going on? And then I'm like I need to learn this
like this was and I think that that was the response, Like I was
like, all right, I can't be just the dumbest person in this room,
Like I have to at least have a sense for what's going on obviously
to write about it and then just like for my own like pride of like
I need to just like I call myself a basketball writer. I you know,
I played for through high school and I've been a fan forever, Like
I need to get a grip on this, And I would say that I
still my knowledge of it is not even close to to where you know,
all those guys are at. But by the end I can at least understand
what they were talking about and follow those sessions a little bit better than day
one for sure. And you mentioning the film sessions made me think, and
it comes across in the book you appreciate it, but it gives you a
new found appreciation for so like look at Silin Cheatham has to learn the Jazz
Playbook and the Heat Playbook and it's just and it's just like you didn't make
it a throwaway comment, but it's just the way he reacted was like,
yeah, I had these materials. I'm like, I just had to read
them, and it's like what the fuck, Like is that even possible?
I mean yeah, it is like talk about like having to cram for I
mean, he you get called up or you get traded or whatever the circumstances
are. You have to learn everything like you're expected to. It's not like,
oh, like, you know, give this guy a break, like
he just got here. It's like, well, if he doesn't know the
playbook, he's not up to speed, Like he just won't make it like
he he. That's the expectation is that you're going to be, you know,
willing to adapt, ready to pick up whatever the new system is,
know the plays, not make mistakes right away. And so these guys,
it is like for that six seven months, it is a absolute grind.
It is NonStop. You were constantly studying, and especially if you're moving back
and forth, it becomes just like a complete whirlwind. So I was lucky
that I got to also you know, see that transition and all that goes
into it. But yeah, man, it's a lot. It's crazy as
someone who was always bad, because I constantly feel like an imposition of cultivating
sources or developing rapport with sources or even just like if I'm around when I
was around teams a bunch, like even developing a rapport with the team employees.
The amount of or the breadth of the relationships that you clearly build throughout
this book is incredibly impressive. What goes in to gaining the trust of the
players, the coaches, management, and do you think it helped it all
once they got past thinking you were an industry plant because of your name,
Did it helped all that you were in And maybe they didn't know this,
but like, did they know that you were kind of in a similar situation
where it's like, well, we're all kind of turning down these other opportunities
to be here for the most part, And here's this writer who's also betting
on themselves because they didn't have a book deal coming into this in there,
so it's not just you're around, but you're rolling the dice on being around
as well. I think, so I think that that did help. I
think the first thing is, you know, I tried to I knew I
was going to be there for so like I was going to be there for
the full season. So like the first thing was, Okay, let me
not essentially come on too strong, ask all these kind of hard hitting questions,
try to get deep with these players because I have a full season to
ask the hard questions to unpack their stories. So the approach was really like
you know, and I was going to be there, like I wanted to
get to know these guys, just like talking to them off the record,
being there every day, and the book focuses on four guys. I think
I also got lucky that they were just great guy guy and willing to give
me the time and stuff like that. But yeah, I think that the
building the trust and building the report just came from you know, we had
all these conversations throughout six seven months. It wasn't like I showed up there
and it was like you have, you know, an hour with this guy,
just sit down with him and interview him. It was like I was
talking to these guys, you know, multiple times a week. I was
there every day, you know, saying what's up to them? And I
clearly showed that I wanted to to kind of capture their full stories. I
mean I talk to family friends, like I was asking them questions not just
about basketball, but you know, their childhood and their hometowns and you know,
their kind of journeys all the way to this moment. So the trust
just kind of gradually builds, I think throughout the season and then as you
get to you know, January February you can start to kind of get deeper
and you know, get to the heart of what you want to write about
and what kind of is the core of each of their stories. So yeah,
and then I think to your second point, like about kind of them
knowing that, you know, this was my dream to write a book,
and that I was there kind of pursuing my dream alongside them, kind of
pursuing their dreams. I think it was more just like the fact that I
was there every day, like the fact that I was willing to kind of
go through the grind that I wanted to capture like really what it was like
as opposed to you know, I think if I was just interviewing them from
Afar, there would have been like less respect for the process because it was
like, you know, when they were flying to Sioux Falls or flying to
you know, wherever the middle of nowhere in the middle like you know,
in the morning, or connecting through various airports, like I was there and
I was you know, dedicated and wanted to to kind of go through the
grind so that I could capture it, you know, in full. So
I think that that certainly helps. And yeah, I mean I was I'm
twenty eight, so I was around their age, and and yeah, I
think that they were able to relate to how badly I wanted to write the
book and how much I was willing to go through the grind to get to
kind of the finished product in the same way that they were. So but
a huge shout out to all of them because they you know, they were
awesome to cover and just great guys overall. Do any of like whether it's
the core four of the book where you're talking about Jared Harper, Malcolm Hill,
Zileon Cheatham and Joe Young or other people, like, do any of
those relationships like you're still in contact with any of these people of those sustained
in any way, shape or form. For sure. Yeah, I've spoken
to tall four of them, which, by the way, Jared Harper seems
like he might be a little bit of a closed book so I find that
very impressive. He's by far the quietest, and I would say that I
think he I wouldn't say he was not interested, but he was less interested
in the overall book than the other guys. And he's just not a media
guy. I mean, he just like he would openly admit that. But
again, like I was able to speak to his family, and yeah,
he's just like such a basketball jokie that he's like the like epitome of like
I just want to focus on the game. And I totally respected that,
and I think that that's kind of I hope that came across in my kind
of characterization of him. He's just such a like absolute basketball nerd and just
will do like whatever it takes. I'm like definitely stayed in touch with Malcolm
and z Island. I'm actually going to tomorrow I fly to Orlando for the
G League Showcase and Malcolm's playing for the Squadron, so I'll see him there.
But yeah, I mean me and Malcolm talked like monthly, just checking
in, and I know Malcolm and Ziland at least have gotten the chance to
read the book, and I've gotten some feedback from them, which is great.
And then the coaches as well. I mean, like, you spend
so much time with the coaching staff throughout the season and they were just awesome.
So I've stayed in touch with you a bunch of people from the organization,
which is great. Is there anyone that you can one divulge that was
you know, maybe in the book, or just related to the book that
has just reached out with feedback that has stuck with you. And then is
there just anyone in general, whether it's a fellow writer you respect her or
someone in the industry whos said something about the book that has stuck with you
as well since it's coming out, Oh so many, like I mean,
just like everybody who's reached out, Like honestly, it just the fact that
people are reading it. I know that sounds crazy, but it just like
it's amazing to get any feedback about it. I'll say that I've heard from
some of the coaching staff that it was awesome to feel like they were reliving
the season, which to me was really great to hear because obviously that that
was the goal to capture exactly what you know, what that season was like,
and you know, I want spoil it, but just like for them
to say that, you know, it was almost emotional for them to get
to have that experience again is amazing to hear. And then from other writers,
I mean, Miaron Fader and Jeff Pearlman, Jake Fisher, they did
blurbs for me. And again the fact that those are three writers that I
like admire and the fact that they even read the book is crazy to me.
So to hear them have like positive things to say about it means the
world. So it's been great getting into just some of the more stuff that
happened in the book. One of the sort of flashbol moments for me,
I think it was of the chapter write the the tryouts chapter. You get
into a lot of just the unique backgrounds, adversities, the ages of some
of these players, which one of the Kelvin Davis, person who tried out
at open tryouts at sixty two years old for the Birmingham Squadron. That was
that's that'll probably stick with me forever. I don't think I'm ever gonna forget
Kelvin Davis his name from here on out. It so like, was there
one story or player's background that really just kind of stood out to you or
still is even just sticking with you In particular, I mean, Calvin is
a great one. I mean just the basics of his story. He's just
sixty two years old, and the like fascinating thing about him. He went
to tryouts, and you know, I don't think he I can't even say
for sure that he didn't fully believe that he was had a chance to make
it. Like this guy is just the most optimistic, you know, confident
and like, I don't know, he was just such a special person,
like the fact that he was there and like had trained to go to tryouts
and he was on the court with guys who would play in the NBA that
same season. I mean, he was literally a sixty two year old sharing
the court with future NBA players. So that was amazing to see. And
I think another one, Ron Howard, he gets mentioned in that same tryout
chapter because he was another open tryout player who made it to the NBA or
made it so I should say to NBA training camp. His story is just
like I he was so close multiple times to just like walking away from basketball.
The basics of his story or that he was basically like about to quit.
This was two thousand and seven, I want to say, and finds
out again, this is D League days. It's really not like a known
thing is told about, like D League tryouts for the mad Ants, which
is like a team that's close to him, and it's kind of like persuaded
to go. He shows up there an hour late because he didn't realize that
it was in a different time zone. He drives over and shows up an
hour late. As is, performs well enough to get invited to the second
day of tryouts, but had no idea that there was a second day of
tryouts, and he lived three hours away and this was like it's like nine
pm at this point. So he drives all the way home and sleeps for
like two hours, and drives all the way back and plays well again on
like two hours of sleep. This like random mad ands tryout and ends up
making the team and a year later he's at training camp with the Box.
So there's just so many of these like kind of insane like guys who are
about to quit or yeah, just like going through that grind and willing to
kind of keep going to pursue their dreams. Those stories are just to me,
like so compelling. So there's a bunch of you know, former G
League guys and obviously the guys I covered in the book, and I think
all their stories are you know, really really fascinating. So I think one
of the things people and the mass audience appreciate most or the wild stories that
can come out of situations like this where being the G League and they know
that it's so far it's the pipeline to the NBA, but it's also galaxies
away from the NBA. To the lifestyle these guys are living is so different,
and that it lends itself to these just stories that you hear later on,
many of which are in the book, that are just like holy hell,
like what is going on here? And you relayed. One of the
anecdotes is just a SeeMe to be when he was in the still calling out
the g League here, but he forgets his shoes at the previous stop,
doesn't have his shoes for the next game, size eighteen. They can't get
him shoes. He's used to being with the Grizzlies who have someone taking care
of all that stuff, and so he's just not able to play because DMP
doesn't have shoes. Basically, is there just especially because you lived through some
of the a lot of the wild travel stuff and there is there's just so
many good, I would say, even bordering on just like harrowing stories in
here. Where One of the ones that even heup with me towards the end
is I can't remember which chapter exactly it was, but it was either keep
going but where Malcolm Hill is driving like five hours round trip to get tested
for COVID. It's just like this guy's making thirty seven thousand dollars a year
to do this and it's just making that type of trip. Is there just
any wild stories or anecdotes that are in the book or maybe something you've heard
since or that you lived through during this book that just stick with you the
most? And that's an unfair question because you've parsed through this so much and
you live through this so much. But is there just one that is like
boggles your mind even now? I think the one that I always like tell
people the like one that stood out to me the most when I first heard
it was the anecdote about the shorts. Do you remember that one? Yeah?
And this is just more at this points to like kind of the absurdity
of the G League. But this is just like the type of stuff that
happens in the G League, because yeah, it's just like you're flying commercial,
you're understaffed, and it's under the radar, So it's just like kind
of all this stuff doesn't get talked about or covered. But that story is
just that this is I want to say, like in the two thousand so
it's the early days. A team is on a road trip and they get
there and they realize that they brought all the jerseys, but they didn't bring
all the pairs of shorts. So you'd think, no problem, like,
let's we can get shorts in time for the game. But that was not
realistic, and so the game has to go on, and they obviously need
to wear uniforms from them when they're on the court. So the solution was
that guys on the bench were actually wearing their like compression shorts and then just
had towels wrapped around their waists and so basically it just looked like all these
like dudes it just got out of the shower. They're just sitting on the
sideline in their jerseys and then towels and whenever like they checked in for somebody,
they literally just exchanged the towel for the shorts. They would just trade
and then change right by the scorers table before checking in, and like nobody
knew that. It's just like it wasn't on TV or anything, so it
was just like, you know, the However, many people, a couple
of hundred that were there got to experience that, and then the story was
never told again, so that's insane. Obviously, I'll tell one that wasn't
in the book that I really wanted to get in there, but couldn't really
squeeze it in there. Excuse me. So a team was on a road
trip, and usually the home team will organize for like a bus to shuttle
the guys from the airport and then to and from like the arena and the
hotel. So the team was at the hotel and the bus comes to pick
them up to take them to the arena, and they The player who told
me the story was not sure if it was a prank or if it was
a mistake, but the bus to pick them up was a party bus.
So they all get onto this bus with bottles of champagne, stripper bowls like
like disco lights like crazy. So it's all these dudes who are like literally
going to a game where they're about to play in front of NBA scouts.
Could not be a more serious situation, Like they have their careers potentially on
the line here, and they pulled up in a party bus and get off
with all their stuff and then play this you know, massively important game and
then get back on the party bus. With stripper bowls and stuff, and
I just think that image of like all these guys, you know, Caruso
was in the G League. Just think of like Alex Caruso pulling up to
a game on a party bus. Like I just think that's such like a
only in the G League type of stories. So those were a joy to
hear about. And it was definitely a question any time I spoke to any
player was like, just tell me your craziest G League story, and I
concluded, you know, and full of them in the book. Yeah,
there's a lot of great ones in there. The travel ones are like so
frustrating to read about because there's like an element of just there's the one in
there where the driver of the bus was too tired and so a team coach
ends up and it's just like that's just infuriating, like to actually have to
read about that, this is what they have to go through to get to
these games. They're leaving at such wild times that they can't even find like
an open food place until two in the morning and it's just some like fast
food joint at that late at night, and they I like reading stuff like
that was we need to hear it and they're very enlightening. But it almost
makes my blood boil that they have to actually go through all of this just
to play a game for such a little amount of money, even though the
stakes are obviously incredibly high. No, it is wild, and like I
tell people like the it is obviously one step away from the NBA. I
mean, these guys are getting called up or guys are being sent down you
know, every day practically, but it just doesn't you know, it doesn't
feel like one step away. I mean, the experience is so different.
And yeah, all those images, I mean those are the ones that kind
of stick with you when you cover the G League and you know, when
you hear all these stories about because I think it's obviously way better than it
used to be. It still probably needs to get better, but you know,
the stories that kind of left a lasting impression were those ones that were
from kind of the early days. I mean that story about yeah, they're
driving through the middle of the night because their flight got canceled and the drive,
I want to say, it was like, you know, ten hours
because of the weather. Conditions obviously weren't good, and they couldn't find a
place to eat, and they finally find like a just like terrible fast food
restaurant that probably was not the place to eat at, but they were all
star big to eat there, and then all of them get food poisoning for
the rest of the bus ride. The idea that like all of these guys
are on a coach bus sick to their stomachs, like, you know,
just because that's kind of what the experience is like in the G League.
Yeah, I tried my best to include, you know, half of those,
just to paint that picture of this is what the grind looks like.
You know. People kind of have an idea of like, yeah, this
is you know, it's not the glitz and glamour of the NBA, but
I don't think they really grasp just how arduous and you know, insane that
grind can be. So yeah, everyone iving sort of understands this about the
G League were it's viewed as this stepping stone to something else for everyone involved,
including the coaches, like they want it to be a temporary stop,
and so it's just known. But I think what struck me it was pretty
early in the book. It was in the Winning Matters chapter, and then
it becomes this reoccurring theme throughout the book is acknowledging that, but then also
trying to build the Birmingham squadron in the image of an actual team that cares
about winning what's actually happening on the court and not necessary. Yes, everything's
framed through this is what can get you to the NBA, but you have
basketball games to win if you want the attention that will get some of these
players to the NBA. Did it? Was it surprising at all for it
to be such an open ended or not open end it, but such an
open point of discussion, like among the you know, the coaches in the
RUSS where they just yeah, now it's like you guys don't want to be
here, but like we need to figure this out anyway. For sure,
I think it you have to. I mean, you have to acknowledge it,
you have to talk about it. And I think like people in the
G League will tell you, like the G League, like the people will
say the G League is the place that nobody wants to be because truly nobody,
nobody's goal is to be there. They all have ambitions of going uh
to the NBA or playing at just a higher level. And so yeah,
I think if you don't acknowledge that off the bat like that it's just not
gonna work. I mean, everybody knows that, you just have to talk
about it. And I think to your point about like you know, they
still have basketball games to win, I think what surprised me is just how
much winning is important to scouts. And I think that that obviously is what
creates that kind of you know, it all kind of works together because if
you are able to communicate to these players that which is true I mean from
my experiences following it and seeing the players getting called up, like if you're
able to communicate with these players that if we win games, if we play
team basketball, if you buy into a role, if you play unselfish,
if you are you know, a good teammate, a positive presence in the
locker room, those are the things that lead to call ups. And I
think that if it was if you know, I think in maybe the early
days it was a little different, But if it was the case that like
just players who put up big numbers and like guys who average thirty or guys
who you know, we're running the offense or getting double doubles were the guys
that got called up, then you have a major problem where you have all
these guys just playing you know, kind of showcase au type basketball. But
the fact that you're able to show these guys and communicate to them like winning,
Like that chapter says, winning matters and winning is kind of, you
know, a way to get recognized, and that you know, obviously the
way to win is for us to play as a team. I think it
all kind of comes together. But that how much that is emphasized did definitely
surprise me because it is I would say the number one thing that because they'll
talk about all the time how to get called up because everyone obviously is trying
to get called up, and that you know, how to get called up
is let's win some games and let's play together and let's you know, get
noticed for doing the little things, for doing you know, the right things
for playing team basketball. That the players, at least in my experience covering
the squadron bought into that. And then when you buy into that, you
know, that's when kind of good things start happening for you. So yeah,
it's definitely emphasized from day one that that's the roads to the NBA.
And then there's when they're towards the end of the book and I probably will
pronounce his name wrong, but Coach pan So he had this speech about Malcolm
Hill, so like we're still driving home that point of doing the little bit,
and like when you get to the end of the book, like people,
that speech will resonate with you where he's getting I think it was him
that was giving it right about the Watson film session and they have like the
montage of Malcolm Hill and all the stuff that he's doing to reiterate that no,
you scoring all this trump scratch creation, all these necessarily highlight or like
you know, box score like bonkers box score stat lines aren't going to get
you to the NBA because they have the guys that are getting those at the
NBA level already. That really sticks with you, like throughout the like even
the way that it's framed is even just a lot a lot of what the
coaches said this book. The way that they were so blunt about it and
so passionate about it. And then to frame Malcolm Hill getting that that two
way contract from Chicago at the time, that was something that resonated with me,
like even after them saying it a bunch throughout the book, to sit
there and then communicate it to the players to that level, which is something
that even sticks with me now I'm glad man, because you know, I
felt like one of my concerns writing the book was is this all getting you
know, too repetitive? Because honestly, that that's what it is like throughout
the season. They're constantly reiterating the same things, and I think that part
of the reason this is just not getting it doesn't get through to certain guys,
and you just got to keep like you just got to stick on it
and just keep saying it over and over again until guys get it. But
I think, yeah, I think that the fact that when Malcolm, you
know, gets called up, that they're able to say, like, look,
this is this happened like you guys saw it happen like this is evidence
that that what we've been telling you throughout the season works and that there is
a road beyond and you know, just scoring a bunch of points or leading
the team in X, Y and Z, you know, I think that
that is when it really starts to resonate with players, is like when they
can see it kind of live down in front of them. So yeah,
that definitely that scene stuck with me, and I knew, like as soon
as it happened, I'm in the film session, I'm like, this is
a chapter like this is something that I need to to come across clearly.
So I'm glad that that stuck with you as well. Do you have any
sense of whether the because there's the we I mentioned it earlier at the top
where they had that sort of players only meeting and that was the moment that
cemented, oh, okay, at least some of these players are viewing it
as we're going to try and care about the relationships we're building here. And
then you have you mentioned, you know, Joe Young organizing Team Dinners,
and it does seem you mentioned some group chats too throughout this. Do you
have any sense of weather is that camaraderie that the squadron had during this season,
is that like par for the course in the G League? Do you
think you was like they stood out in any way for that, because honestly,
this is the only G League team out as much information on now,
so that stands out to me, and I'm wondering, just because of the
nature of the G League, whether that's actually common across all these other organizations.
I think, I think it is more common than you'd think nowadays.
But I think that I also got lucky because I think that the team that
I was with specifically like really was had great camaraderie. And I mentioned in
the book that they had a bad experience the coaching staff a few seasons prior
because they kind of built the wrong roster that didn't care about the right things
and wasn't as invested and dealt with the team that was completely disjointed, And
so that was kind of informed them assembling this team. And I think,
like I fully understand that. I'm sure people read this book and think,
like, were they really like that? It was really that, Like there
was that camaraderie, they were that together, and honestly, like that was
That's how it was. Like I was, like, I thought there was
going to be tons of fireworks. I thought it was going to be you
know, I figured teams would clash, Like I just thought that was the
nature of the G League. You know, it's kind of just by nature
of it being a league that everyone is trying to get out of, kind
of like a cutthroat environment where it's like guys are competing with each other.
But my experience was that these guys care a lot about each other, and
I think that there's a there's something kind of unifying and like everyone having the
same dream and everyone having the same goal because you'll see, like if a
guy gets called up, like all the other players will post about it on
social media congratulate him. Now, I'm sure that they would prefer to be
the guy who got called up and would trade placing with that guy a second.
But there is like a camaraderie and like just the chase, I think.
And so guys do you know, genuinely root for each other to make
it, and certainly when they're in the NBA, Like I remember Zilend telling
me about watching Malcolm when he was in the NBA and he's screaming at the
TV and like, you know, he's just like he's like a fan.
You know, he's trying to he really wants to. You know, if
he makes it, we all make it type kind of mentality. So that
was like refreshing to follow and certainly made it easier than you know, having
to write about that team that was you know, at each other's heads and
stuff like that. So it's that part was a lot easier. There's two
other moments to that kind of drive that home, and one I didn't want
to spoil because it was one of my favorite parts of the book. But
there's just an injury at one point, and the response from the team to
that was like, that will stick with you because again, you just wouldn't
expect it, because I mean, you might not even expect it in the
NBA all the time because it's so competitive and it's a business. But like
that stuck with me. And then I think it was it cheat him when
Miles Powell ends up going to the NBA, or was it like he's just
so excited and he acknowledges that, like, yeah, I want to be
there too, but to see him get there is just so like means so
much to me and that's so great. Am I Did I distort those?
Yeah? No, that was that was it. Miles Powell also just an
insane story of him kind of coming back from injury and getting called up to
the NBA, like right away, this is during Omicron and yet it's just
a It stood out to me that like one of the first people he called
was Island, and you know, these guys just met through basketball and he
calls him like when he's still you know, on the plane about to take
off, he just got the news and he's sobbing, and uh yeah,
I just think it's such a It captures so much one like how much goes
into it and how emotional it can be, and that that kind of bond
between the players because z Island, you know, is jumping up and down
chearing for this dude, and uh, you know, it kind of means
that a spot got filt that Ziala didn't get. So that definitely stood out
to me as well. Yeah, the people buy the book and the Miles
Powell's just playing story too. That was just read. That's that's one of
that I thought that's worth the getting the book alone. So Omicron we've talked
about a few times now. The g League is just to have to live
through it for an entire season is just there's going to be all these curve
balls regardless. But now you're throwing the Omicron variant into the equation. What
was it like having to go through all this cover this, you know,
the just the travel logistics from your again you're living this with the players.
What was that entire experience like and was there at any point, because as
someone who covering the NBA at this time, I can't keep track of the
rosters at this point, Like there are guys that I've never heard of that
are starting games and it's happening on a daily basis. You have to relay
so much this information in the book. By the way, this is a
tangent like that must have been exhaustive having to like go through all these just
like other teams that weren't necessarily directly related to the squadron, but it was
like tangentially related because of what it meant. And so what was just that
entire experience like And as the quick follow up to that is, was your
access or like the the finality, like the production of this book ever in
jeopardy because of what was going on. I mean, the whole time was
like incredibly tense and very isolating, and I was super anxious because the last
thing I wanted was for me to get COVID and then I'm around the team,
for me to put the team at risk or any of these players at
risk because they were all so worried about you know, this was this incredible
opportunity the NBA was dealing with the crisis and teams were decimated and they were
looking to the G League to you for relief and calling up players left and
right. So it's this massive opportunity for g LE players, but it's also
like incredibly nerve racking, because like the worst possible scenario is for you to
get called up and then have that kind of dream ripped away from you because
you caught COVID, or to get COVID during this stretch and then miss out
on you know, potential call ups. So guys are like excited, but
they're also like very nervous, and that I think paralleled how I was feeling
at the time. But I was going through the same Like I was wearing
a mask, I got a booster when the team got boosters, I you
know, was basically keeping my distance during that stretch. I was getting tested
by the team and so even then I was like very cautious during that period.
So it certainly hurt the access a little bit just because like everything was
so crazy during that time. But I will say that obviously, and you've
read the book, it did add such a layer of like drama and intrigued
to just this season. You know that that was kind of when it started,
like I had something that I felt like I could sell. Like again,
I hadn't sold the book yet, this becomes like the year of the
G League. I mean, the number of call ups, it was double
the previous high just because of Omicron. So I think it was very much
the same experience the players were having was experienced I was having when I was
like very nervous and very stressed, but also like understood that this was like
a massive opportunities is kind of the I feel bad saying that because it was
such a bad thing for you know, the world at large, but it
did kind of add such a layer of drama and another kind of you know,
crazy thing to follow to this. You know, it was kind of
just a normal G League season, so it was it kind of hold your
breath for that full time and if you can remember it kind of not that
it passed, but it kind of quieted pretty quickly. It was like a
month of absolute chaos and then you know, it's like mid December to mid
January, and then by like end of January at least it's like a return
to somewhat normalcy. But I kind of blacked out for a month there because
like the players were all over the place, and I was just like following
them and trying to stay healthy, and you know, on all these flights,
and it was like, oh my god, this is like this is
a disaster, but it's also incredibly exciting, So all the emotions, man,
but it was It definitely changed the course of the book, and I
think added something to it that enabled me to eventually sell it. So yeah,
and I didn't even think about this coming into this interview, But so
I'm in the middle of the book and you're hearing about all these other G
League players being called up, but you're invested in the squadron during this book,
like that's the like you're reading it. You're invested them, like what
are these come on? One of these guys gonna get called up? When
is it their turn? So you immediately go from that suspense to then you
know, dealing with Malcolm Hill or Island Sheet I'm gonna called up? It
was like, well, are they gonna have COVID and they're not gonna be
able to play? And so there was that like not necessarily something I detected
while I was reading it, but you do transition from Amaicron just in the
background of like such a huge portion of this entire thing. So you're right,
it's you hate framing as an opportunity or like, but it's it's an
important theme and I think it does help the compelling nature of the book.
How do you keep your own sanity throughout this process? Is it? Did
the insanity help at all? Where maybe it's because you just didn't have like
a moment to stop breathe and think about it, but like you're living a
pretty isolated lifestyle at this point yourself, and so how did you not go
absolutely, you know, off the wall. Maybe I did a little bit,
I don't know. I think it. I think it does. There
is something I will say. You look back at it and it is like
how did I kind of hold it together? And I'm not gonna say I
did a great job of doing that, because I was definitely stressed and running
all over the place. And but I think especially like when you're like I
had a clear goal in mind. I was super passionate about it, and
the whole thing was like really exciting for me. So like I as I'm
going through this and as I'm like dealing with all these kind of random things
that pop up and kind of making these decisions on a whim. I kind
of do have that in the back of my mind, like this is this
is all going to hopefully work out, and you know, this is also
what I signed up for. So it went by. I mean there were
moments when, for sure, like I moved down there, I didn't know
anybody. It was very lonely, isolating. By the end, I was
ready to come home, for sure. But like as a whole, it
went by incredibly fast because it just was like there was something going on every
day. There was something to do. Every day. There was you know,
a team event, a game, a practice. Guy got called up.
Now I'm on a flight to Miami. You know, now I'm going
to Atlanta, like he's back here. Like I just was constant. I
was just on alert the entire time. And then kind of blinked and seven
months had passed and I was moving back to New York with all this material.
So I would say it was it was like insane for seven months.
It took a little break and then had to write the book, so that
it was like insane for you know, another four months, but all in
the end like incredibly rewarding and just super fortunate that it worked out. One
of the things this book just the fantastic job of highlighting, is the disparate
lifestyles between the NBA and then the G League. It made And I don't
even know if this was its intention, And so I'll make clear everything I'm
saying is my thoughts on this. I was getting so angry at some of
the things I was reading where the G League showcase in particular, like that
segment of the book where yes, I understand you don't you don't know who
these executives are, these scouts are, that these all these employees from teams
are. You don't want them seeing you out in Vegas party. I get
that element of it. But you don't want them seeing you eating Chick fil
A when they don't pay you enough to be eating these five story meals.
But they don't want to see you holding in energy drink when how else are
you supposed to And I mean I consume a lot of energy drinks, but
like, how else are you supposed to be standing when you're going through all
this travel, when you're going through this hectic schedule, when you're practicing so
much, when you're reading about these guys who are still getting up to get
in their early workouts. It's just like, did that strike you at all?
You're going through this and hearing these things, and was it you know,
at any point tougher you to remain in partial on that thing where it's
yeah, I think you even mentioned this podcast, Like yes, they have
to like do a better job to improve these conditions. And the NBA did
a victory lap when they raised G League salaries above like forty grand a year
ago whatever it was. It's like that's fucking nothing. And I understand that
these players are not the drivers of the revenue for these organizations, but like
if this is actually a pipeline in the NBA, it just feels like there
should be more resources in place to make life not necessarily lavish, but at
least more palatable or like navigable for these guys. I think no question that
like resources could be better, the pay could be better, and like yeah,
like even then, it's increased, like since the G League union was
formed, it has gone up I'm not gonna say significantly, but it has
gone up dollars. So I mean they are trying to improve it, and
it definitely does need to be improved. And one of the core themes that
I hit on in the book is the idea that like all of these guys
could be making more money overseas. Yeah, that that's like a huge element
of this, Like they're all sacrificing to be in the G League. I
think one, like to your first point, there needs to be like a
bigger appreciation I think across the board from basically anybody, fans, reporters,
whatever, just for like how much goes into this pursuit of the NBA.
I mean again that idea that like you can't even really be seen eating certain
things, you have to be thinking about how people are seeing you. It
goes way deeper in that. I mean energy on the bench. Don't be
late ever, be early for everything. What's your temperament on the court?
Are you not hustling back? Are you arguing foul calls? Like scouts actually
nitpick at those things because they have these massive lists and they're just trying to
narrow them down because players are so you know, they're not interchangeable, but
they're close to interchangeable. They're pretty similar in level and fit and all these
kind of things. So like they're looking for an excuse to basically cancel you
out, so you can't afford to make any mistakes, and like mistakes on
the court, sure, but mistakes in any kind of like area of life,
like just in your diet, in your work habits, you know,
are you out too late? Are you know things that like any of the
stuff that could come out, it could definitely be the difference between you making
it and not making it. So one, there just needs to be that
understanding and that appreciation, I think, so I hope that the book captured
that. And two, yeah, I think that like from the player perspective
the important thing and I do think that that this is the case. But
players just need to be aware of this is how realistic your chances are of
making it. Is it worth it for you to be going through this grind
like that could be at least mitigated or reduced, Like if they get paid
more, the conditions improve. But like I think there is an understanding for
most of these G League guys coming in like I have a shot or this
is what I'm sacrificing, Like players and coaches, executives, agents, I
think that they're pretty transparent with these guys about like just what they're getting themselves
into what they're sacrificing. So you want to have a lot of these guys
in the G League, like, you know, completely clueless as to what
their situation is, if that makes sense, So like that would be I
think, you know, it would be harder to stomach if it was like
these guys don't even realize like kind of what they're getting into and what's on
the table for them, what they're sacrificing. But for sure, like it
is, it is crazy to see up close, like how different the lifestyle
is, and you know, those disparities between the G League and the NBA.
That's what makes everything even more wild is some of the these guys have
all these lucrative six seven figure offers that they could get playing overseas and yet
they're here. And there's a great chapter which I won't get into detail here,
but you kind of have the contrast between two players were one who just
spent so long in the Glee to get his taste of NBA action versus someone
who decided, like, no, I'm going to provide for my family and
make all this money. And that was just like to see and then they
go back and forth. It was that was a great part of the book
as well. And I think to the original question I have for you,
one of the biggest compliments I can pay this book is whenever you consume something
or hear something or read something that makes you rethink maybe how you're covering or
reacting to what's happening in Let you use the NBA basketball specifically, it's happened
to me a bunch, and like, I'm snarky as fuck on Twitter,
but like the tenor of my jokes have changed, where like I make sure
it's not personal and you don't want to inadvertently take away from someone's work ethic
if you're trying to make fun of something that happens. And this is one
of those books that will make you rethink any jokes that you might make about
having a no name like a no name player when you see them, or
jokes you might make about the G League or the level of competition when it's
I've even probably written offhanded things about not this year, but to use this
year's pistons as an example about them, like needing to be relegated or something.
This is one of those books that'll stop and make you think, like
yo I probably won't disparage the G League in that way, like so off
handedly because of what these players are going through and how much it just how
like the level of sacrifice that they're all making to some extent, even if
those lucrative offers aren't on the table, they could be building in a career,
a building out a career in another industry, or doing something some of
these guys were doing at points anyway. So that is one of the biggest
comments, Like that sticks with you just like it changes the way you look
at even yes, everyone knows technically what the G League is all about,
Like this book really gives you an inside look about what these players are going
through, and it's just in so many instances it's just the word for me
to describe it as unfathomable. I'm certainly not built for it. And there
are these guys who they're either doing it for years on end or they're also
doing it years on end while they have it'd be different if it was a
last option for them and to get to the NBA. Maybe it is,
but like no, a lot of these players have some pretty lucrative alternatives on
the table and they're choosing to go through this, which boggles my mind even
more. Me too, man, I mean, well, thank you,
And that definitely stuck with me too. And I think like there's just the
like even just for like fans to for me at least to have an appreciation
for, like even like what the guys who come from the gleue are doing
on an NBA court. Like I think like I had a tendency for sure,
and like look this it's like it's Twitter like whatever, It's like people
can say whatever. But I definitely had a tendency to look at certain guys
on the court and be like what is he doing? You know, why
is he out there? Like how is this guy valuable? And you know,
I think you see it with guys like like Patrick Beverley for example,
where it's like, you know, he can be a past and he's doing
all these things that fans might look at and be like this is annoying,
like what you know, what what value does he actually bring? And the
more you're around fringe guys and you know, obviously Beverly's not a fringe guy
now, but guys who have carved out roles, who you know, non
traditional roles, you realize that that's how Beverly is. That's how he's sticking
in the NBA, that's how he's earning these contracts. That's what NBA coaches
value. Like when he's doing these things, it's because that's what his role
is. And that's like, there's a different appreciation when you see you know,
PJ. Tucker or Alex Caruso or Gary Payton or I'm trying to think
of an example of guys who, like, you know, barely you know,
PJ. Tucker just stand in the corner. He'll shoot threes and he'll
do all the dirty work. And yeah, I mean not that people didn't
have an appreciation for that game or his game before, but I think it's
a bigger appreciation when he was actually taking those threes from That's true, that's
uh, I think I think it's just a different level once you see it,
and hopefully once you read this book you realize it, like there is
a lot of sacrifice that goes into just like those guys being willing to do
those things and being willing to accept those roles. So for sure, it
changed my perspective of obviously the G League and uh the NBA and basketball in
general. So hopefully it does the same for other people. Uh so was
it easy then, like, once this whole process is over, was it
easy to sell the book after what happened? Was that still like a challenge?
Still a challenge for sure? I mean it was. I was able
to get an agent, which helps a lot, and shout out to my
agent, Joseph Perry. He was great. And yeah, I mean that
that certainly helps because they you know, they do a lot of work for
you. But first time author a niche subject like the G League, not
players that are well known, Like I knew that going in and it was
going to be a massive challenge. But it did still take a lot of
time to get a publisher on board. But yeah, shout out to University
New Rascal Press. They they believed in it. And again the support has
been amazing. So uh yeah, I'm super grateful and thankful that somebody took
a chance on it and that people are enjoying it and reading it. So
now, Mieran did tell me that you already know that you want to write
another book, which, by the way, I'll liken this too. Even
if you're passionate about this, like if you're asking a marathon runner immediately after
they crossed the finish line, like what do you want? When are you
going to run your next marathon? And so I've like when people ask actors
coming out of like these long series or these authors who are going through the
process running entire book, like well, when's your next book or what's it
going to be? About the fact that you know you want to write another
book after going too that process impresses me to know you absolutely someone that would
be no, I'm never going to write another book, Like no, this
is way too much work. Okay, there's an element of like you just
you kind of like you want to capitalize on the little momentum you get because
to like pitch another one or to keep going. I'm sure as soon as
like I'm getting into the actual weeds of doing the next book, I'll be
like what what was I thinking? But like right now, for sure it
Book one didn't deter me. And I think the response to book one and
just like having it out there it kind of gives you like a little burst,
but like I don't want people to get like get it messed up,
like it is definitely kind of torture going through it a little bit, but
you know it's rewarding to I mean I had an anxiety Justsue you talking about
after being around the team for seven eight months and having to like go and
pour over all this material and write about it. It's just like that's giving
me anxiety the thought of that. But if you could, your next book
can be about anyone anything, any subject, source material you want. What
would you as right now? What would you choose if you could? So
have? Haven't I a couple ideas kind of working a little bit? You
don't need to bulgeme here. Yeah, no, I'm down to talk about
them a little bit. Maybe someone will hear this, But I think,
I mean, first of all, I think it would be so cool.
I've always had this kind of like dream of like turning life from the g
into like a series where I'm a follow like four different players. And like,
again, this would be super tough, I think, because just selling
the G League over and over again is probably a challenge, but you know,
having like four different players because every story is very unique, and again,
four different players trying to get to the NBA. What's their journeys like?
What are their journeys like? And I think the next book could be
you know, less history and more just like getting into the weeds of like
pursuing that dream. And then the other one, just to tease it a
little bit, is focused on another pipeline of the NBA, and it's like
a little bit, I guess it's focusing more on international basketball. So yeah,
I guess I'll leave it to that. But just like something like another
increasing like increasingly important pipeline of the NBA that, yeah, it's undercovered,
I would say at this point. So that and I think even that comes
across in the book a little bit. I think some people be surprised to
know, like how much money some of the international leagues will pay some of
these guys. And I think he's known actually, like the extent that it's
known the WNBA players, like how much of a disparity there was between their
WNBA salaries and what they can make overseas. But it's not talked about as
much with the NBA. I think in part because the G League exists,
and so a lot of people to look, awah, why wouldn't you just
go to the G League rather than go overseas. It's like no, like
for a lot of these guys, there's a lot of money overseas, So
that would be a fascinating read for sure. I hope so man, I
hope, I hope publishers think the same thing. But yeah, I mean,
uh, like to your point, like Joe Young, who's one of
the four main characters, he could have made three million in China the season
that I was with him, and he accepted, you know, he got
a bonus for Oh no, he didn't. He was a drafted player.
So he's making less than forty K for thirty seven grand instead of three million.
Is it's a pretty big sacrifice. Yeah, it's for sure, that's
a big one. So yeah, and there's a lot of guys who are
doing, you know, not quite that big of a jump because Joe was
an NBA guy and he was established in China, but certainly six figure contracts
in the euro League and you know spread out throughout the world. Like even
the one of the numbers that's I mean, there's a few, there's a
bunch of different numbers. One of those like twenty thousand a month, because
I think that's two months you just made more than your entire G league salary.
And then when these guys get these ten day contracts. They've already doubled
their G league salaries in ten days. It's like, how is that even
possible? And some of them don't even play. They just go up there
ten days, they sit off the bench, and they get paid double for
a full grind, like a grind of a season. And it wasn't Malcolm
Hill. Was it Malcolm Hill or was it Zilond Cheatham talking about the per
diem that they got and they were living off that more than their G League?
That was Squeaky Johnson. That was the Yeah, that was I mean
that story too where he's on the plane and they hand out the per diems
for like this little road trip and it's like fifteen hundred dollars or something for
you know, a couple of days on the road or something crazy, and
he just watches the players immediately starts a gamp like to just bet the money
right away on a card game. They just throw it into the pot and
Squeaky's like putting this in his backpack. He's like I need this, Like
I absolutely need this. This is what I get on my like bi weekly
checks in the D League. Yeah. I think that that illustrates again that
disparity like to a t just him being there and seeing how much it matters
to them, they'll just bet it right away. Crazy. Is there anything
about the book I haven't asked about or that you want to talk about it?
Maybe something that you wished more people during these interviews asked about that that
hasn't been asked that you want to touch punk. No, Man, I
think it'd be like pretty much covered it. I mean again, I just
think like a huge shout out to uh, the organization and you know,
all the people that I followed. I think, like, I know I've
said this throughout the interview, but like me being able to have the access
that I had and to be lucky enough to be around the players that I
was around and the coaches that I was around. Uh, that's that's what
enabled me to write this book and to have the book that I have.
So yeah, any chance I can get to kind of just express my gratitude
to them and get to everyone who supported the book and to you and to
all the kind of podcasts I've been on, it's been awesome. So I
think that's the main thing. The main message I would have, My main
message is by the book being held up on screen, if you're watching Life
and the G. It is really really good. This doesn't mean anything,
but I do read books that don't make it to the little setup I had
behind me. This will be making it to the setup because I found it
was recommended to me by Miran, so I won't pretend that I found it
on my own. I'm so glad she recommended it. It is so so
so so so so good and enlightening, so holding up again. Buy it
Life and the G. The link will be in the podcast and YouTube description.
Follow Alex on the Twitter machine at alex Underscore Squad and spelled exactly as
the team that he owns no uh at s q u A d r O
N. If you write another book, I'll be purchasing it immediately and reading
the best of luck to you and thank you so much for coming on.
And like I said, I can't say enough good things about about it.
Thank you man, it's my pleasure. I really appreciate you having me