WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:04.000 Hey, this is Chris with Hacking your Leadership. On today's discussion on employee 2 00:00:04.040 --> 00:00:07.360 engagement, I want to talk about an interaction that I had on LinkedIn that 3 00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:11.720 I've been thinking about a lot since having the interaction, and I wanted to 4 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:14.839 kind of, you know, get get Lorenzo's thoughts on this, and kind 5 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:18.679 of talk about this a little bit because I think it really impacts employee engagement 6 00:00:18.679 --> 00:00:22.280 in organizations. Adam Grant, who you know, was a friend of the 7 00:00:22.280 --> 00:00:26.359 show. We follow him and I think his content is fantastic. He posted 8 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:31.079 something recently. It was a kind of a funny joke screenshot meme of a 9 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:35.560 person who sent a text message to their boss, likely and it said we'll 10 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:38.200 be a little late today because of who I am as a person, and 11 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:42.200 the caption was basically when you've run out of excuses and again, just a 12 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:47.880 funny joke. And one of the people in the that saw that comment made 13 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:52.520 a comment underneath it that said that it's interesting that this person felt a need 14 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:56.439 to provide an excuse or reason for missing work, and you know, shouldn't 15 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:59.960 shouldn't just simply saying I will not be in for work today or I'll be 16 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:02.799 late today. Shouldn't that be enough? You know, why why should a 17 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:06.400 person feel like they have to you know, uh, you know, compromise 18 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:10.159 maybe their privacy or or you know, talk about whatever issues you're going on. 19 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:12.439 Isn't it? Isn't it simply enough to say I'll be late or I 20 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:15.959 won't be in for work. And you know, I have a tendency of 21 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:21.239 you know, taking things too seriously. And replied to that person and said 22 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:26.599 that that sounds pretty transactional, and that if the employee wants a relationship that 23 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:32.120 is more than transactional, that yeah, I think that an actual reason or 24 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:36.560 an explanation is necessary. You know, I said that if I would provide 25 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:42.640 an explanation for absence or tardiness to any person if I value their respect and 26 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:47.920 the relationship. And that's that's whether it's an employer or a family member or 27 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:51.079 a friend. And I think that's where the difference lies. I think, 28 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:55.640 you know, for some people, what you would provide to a friend or 29 00:01:55.680 --> 00:02:00.200 a family member reaches a different level than what you would provide to an employer. 30 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.840 And I've been thinking about this a lot because their comment isn't wrong, 31 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:07.599 right, Like, if you if you're a person you should be able to 32 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:13.879 dictate what the relationship is between you and your employer. And if you don't 33 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:16.639 want to share an explanation as to why you are late or why you are 34 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:21.479 you know, not going to be at work that day, you shouldn't have 35 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:24.639 to. And organizations that require that, you know, like I'm gonna just 36 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:29.479 work tomorrow, Okay, make sure you bring the documentation, doctor's notes, 37 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:35.120 I want to sign medical release forms like that's that's ridiculous, right if you 38 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:38.080 if you're an organization like that, get out. But but yeah, you 39 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:42.960 should be able to dictate the relationship between you and your employer. But I 40 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:45.840 don't think I'm wrong either, Like I don't think that this is a this 41 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:49.280 is a black and white issue of you know, one of us is right 42 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.599 and one of us is wrong. I think this this person was right, 43 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.840 and I think that it's the right thing to do. And so when it 44 00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:00.120 comes to employee engagement, this is an important thing to this us because you 45 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:05.879 know, in my heart of hearts, I believe that in organizations where the 46 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:12.639 relationships between employers, between leaders and employees rise to the level of more than 47 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:15.919 just that transaction, that better work gets done and people are happier and more 48 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:21.319 engaged, and when it doesn't exist, they're not. But again, is 49 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:23.719 not up to each employee to decide. Yeah, I think it's a great 50 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:27.560 conversation to have, and you know, the realities. I think you're both 51 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:32.479 right in the aspect of like, you shouldn't feel obligated to have to share 52 00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:37.759 or feel the sense of guilt to share overshare. Maybe what's going on if 53 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:39.039 you can't make it to work, you can't make it to work. But 54 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.639 on the flip side of that, a lot of what we talk about is 55 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:46.960 building culture and building you know, kind of these authentic relationships and having trust 56 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:53.639 and having the ability to want leaders of organizations to also like, you know, 57 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:55.000 do more than just the bare minimum. So that's kind of how I 58 00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:58.759 look at it. It's like, it's perfectly fine if you want to have 59 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:01.360 a maybe you know, maybe it is a transactional relationship. There is kind 60 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:03.919 of like here's the minimum expectation, here's what I need to do, So 61 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:06.919 I just do this, and then what I expect from my organization is do 62 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:10.680 exactly what the organization or the leaders of the organizations say they're going to do, 63 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:13.120 and then I'm good, Like I do my part, they do their 64 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:14.960 part, I walk away, I don't have to think about it when I 65 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:18.519 get home or whatever. Like it could be that type of a situation and 66 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.920 both parties could be perfectly fine with that. I think if you're thinking about 67 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:28.800 the idea of building culture and elevating a team and a relationship between a leader 68 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:32.519 and the team, there's this kind of middle ground where it's like, you 69 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:36.759 know, we do more than maybe the minimum expectation. We add a little 70 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:43.040 bit more to make sure that people understand or that there's there's a relationship of 71 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:46.839 such to say, like you know, I don't want to miss work, 72 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:48.480 but I need to and here's what's kind of going on. And it's even 73 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:53.680 just a little bit like I, hey, Chris, like really under the 74 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.319 weather today, got up, got dressed, wanted to make it in, 75 00:04:56.920 --> 00:04:59.360 but just do not feel great and don't want to get the rest of the 76 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.439 team sick. You know it won't be in today. And then your response 77 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:03.480 is, hey, it's all good, like thank you for you know, 78 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:08.920 get well have some time. Like that element of sharing is not really from 79 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:12.759 a place of, in my opinion, of like the guilt of I owe 80 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:17.000 you a reason, but more of the I owe you know, I want 81 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:23.079 my team and my leaders to understand that that there's something that's going on, 82 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:25.560 and it could be a flat tire, it could be a family member, 83 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:28.920 it could like there are plenty of things that could be going on without having 84 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:31.519 to overshare to be able to do that, But then that also sets the 85 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:35.240 standard for the relationship that I want to have with my leader, so that 86 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:39.399 my leader can understand a little bit more of a peek into my life of 87 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:42.920 what's going on, that they they know that I'm being authentic, that they 88 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:46.600 know that I'm being honest about what's happening. Because I want my leader to 89 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:49.199 also not just do the bare minimum of their job or their expectation from the 90 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:51.759 organization. I want them to look out for me. I want them to 91 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:57.519 be a little bit more open with things around my career, my progression, 92 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:00.399 my my development. So again, it's kind of a I see this as 93 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.560 a little bit of a contract between the two if that's what you're looking for 94 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:06.560 when it comes to the environment that you want to work in, right, 95 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:11.759 right, and again, it should be up to each employee to decide on 96 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:15.680 their own what type of relationship they want with their leader, because again This 97 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:19.600 isn't the relationship between an employee and their company. The company doesn't there's no 98 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:25.720 relationship there. The relationship is between the person and their direct leader or whoever, 99 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:29.519 or set of leaders, whoever they are, and each person should get 100 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:31.360 to decide that. And if you're a leader of a team with a lot 101 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:35.879 of people on it, you may have people on that team who really want 102 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:42.120 that deeper relationship, who really want to have the relationship where you talk more 103 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:46.680 openly about what's going on in your lives and who want that level of trust 104 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.240 and of you know, kind of back and forth. And you may have 105 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.480 people on the exact same team who don't want that at all, they want 106 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:57.680 the transactional relationship. If you, as a leader, are kind of putting 107 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:00.040 one above the other on a like a higherarchy call basis as far as you 108 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:03.680 know what, because maybe you want that more, you want more of a 109 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:06.920 relationship, and then you have an employee who doesn't want that. If you 110 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:11.319 are, are you know, kind of giving employees like that the cold shoulder 111 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:15.319 or or treating them differently because of it, that's a problem you shouldn't be 112 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:20.439 because again, neither is wrong. Where where it's wrong is when is when 113 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:24.839 one person articulates that they want the benefits of both. Right, So, 114 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:28.480 if an employee is saying that they want that, they don't want to have 115 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:30.800 to say anything more than just I won't be in today. But they also 116 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.160 want you, as a leader to go above and beyond what the bare minimum 117 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:39.399 of your job is in order to help them progress in their career and to 118 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:41.920 you know, and to and to get where you want to go, and 119 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:46.040 to accomplish more more goals. If you want a leader like that, good 120 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:48.839 luck finding one. If you're not willing to to, you know, put 121 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:53.399 forth some effort on your side of the of the deal. Also, it's 122 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:58.560 just how people work. People will want to do more for you if you 123 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:01.680 want to provide that type of relationship with them, there has to be some 124 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:07.040 type of reciprocity there. Saying I want to be a leader doesn't mean you 125 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:11.279 give up your right to have that reciprocity in those relationships. It means that 126 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:16.600 you meet people where they are and you start doing things in a way that 127 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:18.720 is in you know, kind of in service of what each person wants. 128 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:22.040 If you're a leader, you're trying to figure out how to navigate this. 129 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:24.399 There are some things that you can do. I want to go over that, 130 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:26.240 but first let's get up to ward for one of our sponsors. All 131 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:28.720 Right, if you're a leader of people and you have multiple people on your 132 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.919 team and you're trying to navigate this, this is one of those times where 133 00:08:31.919 --> 00:08:35.360 it's not the right thing to do to sit each of them down and say 134 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:37.919 what type of a relationship do you want? These are things that have to 135 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:43.440 happen in the moment and on the fly, based on experiences that you've already 136 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:46.879 had, because it's it's going to be very difficult for each employee to articulate 137 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:54.120 what type of relationship they want in this context without the benefit of looking at 138 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:58.320 previous interactions that have already happened. You as a leader, it's your responsibility 139 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:03.519 to kind of make notes on what type of relationship it appears a person wants 140 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:05.679 based on how they're interacting with you, and then, based on that information, 141 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.080 sit down with the ones you need to sit down with and say, 142 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:13.120 hey, this is what i'm seeing. There's nothing wrong with this. If 143 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:16.080 this is the type of relationship you want, I'm perfectly fine with that, 144 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:18.840 but I want to make sure that i'm meeting you where you are and that 145 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:20.919 I'm not getting the wrong impression here, So talk to me about this and 146 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.360 let me know, because I want to make sure I'm serving you right and 147 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:28.480 that I'm holding my end of the bargain as your leader to making sure you 148 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:31.440 get is what is needed. But if this is the type of relationship you're 149 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.960 looking for as a purely transactional one, that's fine. Let's get that out 150 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:37.960 in the open and we can talk about it, because I don't want you 151 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:41.919 to feel like I'm short changing you or giving the cold shoulder at all. 152 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:45.639 But again, it has to happen in the context of you've already seen this 153 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:48.120 happen a few times, and now you want to kind of clear the air. 154 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:52.480 Not having those conversations and just assuming that a person wants a specific type 155 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:56.639 of relationship will likely end in air. You will probably assume incorrectly. There 156 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:58.080 could be employees out there who think this is the right thing to do, 157 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.919 and maybe they want something deeper they don't think they can get it, or 158 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:03.960 maybe they've had bad experiences with leaders in the past and they want a deeper 159 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:07.120 relationship with you. They don't have to ask for it. Getting it out 160 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:09.879 in the open is a good thing to do, but again it has to 161 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:13.320 be in the context of things that have already happened, so you can talk 162 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:15.159 about it in clear the air. Yeah. I think the other part of 163 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:18.679 it too is be upfront and tell tell them upfront what it might look like. 164 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:22.679 Say, hey, you know, obviously we have benefit time, we 165 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:24.720 have sick time, we have things things in life are going to happen. 166 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:28.080 That type of deal. Kind of here's what my thoughts are on this, 167 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:30.279 Like, you know, if you need to be out, you need to 168 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.080 be out. Like there's not an obligation for you to have to share what's 169 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.480 going on if you don't want to, but it is helpful if in case 170 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.320 there's something that we can support or help you out with or those types of 171 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.279 things. So kind of like being the leader that also shares and kind of 172 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:50.799 gives permission to understand kind of what the expectations are and then answer questions about 173 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:56.039 it and kind of discuss examples of it, because what sometimes happens sometimes people 174 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:00.879 don't know. Sometimes, like in this example, around the the need or 175 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:03.320 the want to say what's going on, some people don't know. Maybe what 176 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:07.799 is the right way to approach it, or maybe their previous job did this 177 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:09.759 way and this jet Like there's a lot of things that happened that we don't 178 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:13.559 really even talk about or like would never come up in a training around, 179 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:16.080 like here's the proper way or here's a way in which you can call out 180 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:20.240 or provide information, like I think that that falls on the leader to also 181 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.399 kind of establish some of those norms, to share those those types of things 182 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:28.240 like and and maybe you don't do it collectively with the whole team. Maybe 183 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:30.759 it happens in the moment, in the moment with each leader or with each 184 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:35.279 person, somebody calls out or somebody says this, or somebody feels that, 185 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:37.159 you know, they need to leave a voicemail with them, like coffee and 186 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:41.879 sneeze in every ten seconds, like just saying hey, like you know, 187 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:43.000 I heard you know you voiceout. I want you to get better. That 188 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.240 type of thing. If you're that sick where it's hard for you to even 189 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:50.919 you know, breathe to call without coffee or season, you can just text, 190 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:52.720 you know, saying like you don't you don't have to do that. 191 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:56.919 I don't need to proof on the other side of the phone or the voicemail 192 00:11:56.039 --> 00:12:01.799 like those pick those moments to kind of share your perspective or your thoughts on 193 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:05.200 how you want that relationship to go, and then provide people with some clarity 194 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:07.879 or the permission to kind of approach it in a way that makes the most 195 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.200 amount of sense. Right, absolutely, and again, these are these are 196 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:13.200 things, this is this is leadership, and there's some gray area here. 197 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:18.840 But whatever, whatever it is, and whatever you decide to do, it 198 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:24.360 is never the right thing to have these conversations in the moment when the particular 199 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:26.480 issue is happening. A person you know, says they're not going to be 200 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:30.080 into work today, or they're calling out, you know, saying over the 201 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.120 phone to them during that same conversation, hey, let's talk about their relationship 202 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.600 and how you want this to go. That is never the right thing to 203 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.200 do. You wait until that that particular issue is done and over with, 204 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:41.679 and then you pull them aside when they're at work again and everything's fine. 205 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:46.360 In the moment when a person is articulating their inability to come to work or 206 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:50.799 be at work on time, whatever, it is, nothing but compassion for 207 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:54.120 the moment and get better, feel better, whatever you need, let us 208 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:58.679 know. And then after these situation is over, and they're back at work. 209 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.919 Then that's when you start having broader conversations around the relationship. Let the 210 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:07.360 individual dictate how they want the specific interaction to go in the moment, and 211 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:09.919 you won't go wrong as a leader. Thank you all for joining us on 212 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.159 this discussion of employee engagement. We'll see you here next Thursday for the next 213 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:15.919 one. Have a great day.