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Greetings, fellow seekers of the unknown,

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It's Brian, and I'm here today
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you. As you know, my
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strange has taken me on a wild
ride filled with incredible experiences and encounters with

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the unseen, and today I want
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dot com today and let the journey
begin. Hey everybody, this is less

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striding. Yes, yes, I
know, aka surviving man and you're listening

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00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:31.879
to Brian on Sasquatch Odison. You
guys, and welcome back to Sasquatch Eyes.

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Thank you so much for being with
us for the show. It is

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Friday. I hope you guys have
had a great week. We have an

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amazing guest lined up for you.
But as always, I want to start

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by inviting you. If you've had
an encounter and you'd like to be on

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the show, shoot me an email
you get me a Brian at Paranormal World

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Productions dot Com. Can head over
to the website check it out, become

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a member there, or help support
the show. As I said, I've

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got a great guest lined up for
you. I got to sit down and

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talk to my buddy Matt Pruett and
talk about his new book, The Phenomenal

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Sasquatch. If you guys haven't picked
up this book, you have got to

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get it. It is a must
read for anyone who's into the bigfoot subject

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at all. Matt is always one
of the smartest guys in the room,

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and if you're into bigfoot, you've
got to hear this guy talk about his

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book and his theories on what these
things may be and what they probably aren't.

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You can pick up Matt's book,
The Phenomenal Sasquatch on Amazon or you

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can get it from the North American
Bigfoot Center. I will have links to

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both of those in the show notes. And if you're listening to me on

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terrestrial radio in Atlanta and you don't
have access to the show notes, head

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over to our website Paranormal World Productions
dot com. You can go over to

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the Sasquatch Odyssey blog there and I'll
have all those show notes listed along with

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those links to get Matt's book.
But enough of that, I know you

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guys are ready to get into it. Matt's on the line. He's ready

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to go. You gotta sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.

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I had, folks all to welcome
my guest to the show. It is

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Matt Pruett. Welcome back to the
show man. Thanks for having me.

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I had to blast the first time
it was on your show and really appreciate

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the invite back. Absolutely, man. It was one of my favorite shows,

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and honestly, it's one of the
most popular episodes that I've ever done

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on the show. And we're three
hundred and thirty Semite episodes in so people

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still come up to me, like
in Gatlinberg last week and talk about you

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being on the show and being from
Georgia and the connections there. It's a

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really small world. Like you and
I were just talking about before we went

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on the air, what a small
world it is when you start talking to

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people at conferences and people are coming
up to your booth and sharing their experiences

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and stories. I had a blast
at the conference last week. What about

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you? I know you were in
there selling books and doing your thing with

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Cliff. How did the conference go
for you? Guys? It was absolutely

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a blast. I'd already agreed to
help Cliff at his booth because Cliff and

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I have been friends for so long
and I produced Bigfoot and Beyond the Cliff

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and Bobo, and so we're on
the phone on a daily basis, but

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we just don't get to see each
other as much as we used to.

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So when he was like, Hey, I'm coming to Tennessee, would you

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like to help me at the boosts, it was like a great excuse to

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get together and hang out. And
then the book came out in time,

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thankfully, and so he said,
oh, you should just sell copies at

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the booths. Even when I worked
on finding big Foot. It's just heartwarming

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to see people come up to Cliff
and give him the kudos that he rightfully

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deserves, and to meet so many
people. And then I also managed the

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social media for Bigfoot and Beyond,
and so it's funny, like you just

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see the same comments from the same
people very often, and so people would

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come up and I would recognize them
from Facebook or Twitter comments and I,

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beck, are you so one's on
the beck Oh, how do you know?

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And I'm like, thanks so much
for being here. I see all

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of your positive comments. We appreciate
that so much, and so it's really

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cool to interact with people on that
level. Yeah, it's one of my

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favorite things about that conference. In
particular. That was the first Bigfoot conference

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I ever went to as a spectator, just two years ago, and then

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to be able to go back and
to be involved in a small way this

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year was absolutely amazing. I love
RPG, I love everybody that was there.

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That's the first time I've got to
meet Cliff in person. He's been

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on the show, and I'm trying
to get him back on the show.

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We're trying to do another little roundtable
to promote our SQUATCHCN coming up that we're

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going to be speaking out together next
month, just to have the opportunity to

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meet those people face to face,
like the Renee. I've never met Renee.

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I've never hung out with her.
We gets to hang out at the

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VIP dinner and she is freaking hilarious. You know people on television. I

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say this often. You see people
on television or maybe even hear them on

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a podcast, and you have this
idea in your mind of what they're going

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to be like if you meet him
in person. Somebody said you don't ever

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want to meet your heroes and that
kind of thing. And I've had bad

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experiences in the past with people,
baseball players and even wrestlers. I was

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into wrestling as a kid. But
I don't think anybody in the Bigfoot community

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that I have known before I met
them has disappointed me, and they certainly

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didn't. I didn't get a whole
lot of time with Cliff or Matt,

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but I got to spend more time
with Renee and we were fast friends.

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And she is one of those people
that just has an infectious personality. You

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can tell she genuinely loves people.
She's hugging everybody's neck. She's smiling from

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ear to ear, and it was
just fantastic to watch her do her thing.

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And I really did enjoy that.
You and I got to hang out

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just a few minutes at the VP
dinner, which is always nice because,

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like you say, we get so
involved and wrapped up in the shows and

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the things that we have going on
in our lives, and you working closely

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with Cliff, and you guys hardly
see each other even though you work so

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closely together. It is nice to
be able to kick back a little bit

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and just enjoy the people, because
that's really what it's all about. For

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me. The conference is great for
exposure and getting new people involved in the

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show and listening to the show,
but to go and hang out with people

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like Laurie Wade. You know,
I've had Laurie on the show, but

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to sit down and break bread with
her and her infectious personality. She's one

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of those people that if you walk
away from a conversation with Laurie and you

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don't like her, there's something wrong
with you, in my opinion. So

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that in and of itself is just
one of those fantastic things to see.

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Anybody who has an opportunity to go
to a conference, in my opinion,

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if it's as well done as the
one in Gatlinburg, and I know those

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guys do the similar conference down in
Florida. If you have an opportunity to

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do that, I would highly suggest
you take that opportunity and be a part

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of it, because I tell you
there's nothing like it. There really Isn't

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you set behind a microphone and talk
like we're talking now, but to get

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face to face with people who listen
to your show or read your books,

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or know you from television or whatever, there's just nothing like that experience.

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So I'm glad it went well for
you guys. It was certainly a success

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for us. I had all the
guys from the Kentucky X Files were there,

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I had the guys from the Basement
hang Out. Wayne of course from

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Paranormal Odyssey was there, and we
met tons of people, got to take

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tons of pictures with people, sold
some merchandise, and it was just a

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really good time. I'm already looking
forward to next year. Absolutely. It's

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funny because those things do get so
hectic. That's why I really enjoyed there

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was like the VIP dinner that you
mentioned because there is some downtime. There

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was another conference that I was at
with Cliff last year, and he was

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very hectic and I was in seeing
it, so I was always running back

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and forth to make introductions and speak
between speakers. And at the end of

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the weekend, he and I realized, like we actually spent more time talking

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on the phone on an average day
then we got to spend talking face to

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face at that event. So I'm
always grateful for the downtime around the events

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too. So it's a good chance
to see people, and yet they're overwhelmingly

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positive and it's very heartwarming for sure. Yeah, I love it, man,

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So let's get into this. The
last time you were on the show,

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it was more about experiences and the
research the North American Woodade Conservancy and

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some of those things that you've had
going on for years. But since you've

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been on you've been working on a
project. And I am so excited to

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announce that you've finished the book,
The Phenomenal Sasquatch. I have my copy.

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I got it as soon as I
possibly could off of Amazon. I

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couldn't wait to dig into the book. Man. You mentioned it earlier the

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first time you were on the show. I was so impressed with your approach

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to the subject. You walk into
the room, in my opinion, and

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you raise the IQ when you're talking
about just about anything, but specifically Bigfoot,

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and I was really glad to see
that someone like you was going to

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take the time to write the kind
of book that you wrote. You've said

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before, I think you and I've
talked about it privately. I think you've

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even said it on the show before. You run into people in the Bigfoot

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community that sometimes want you to dumb
things down for people, and I think

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we need exactly the opposite for that, And to me, your book is

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that. So let's get into the
book. Let's talk a little bit about

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Ay, why did you decide to
do that? Because it's not easy.

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I just started my own book a
couple of weeks ago. I'm writing my

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own book now and I'm about twelve
thousand words in and it is more work

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than I could have ever imagined.
So writing a book number one is a

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labor of love. So talk a
little bit about the process for you,

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about a making that decision and what
was that like for you. Yeah,

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and I know what you mean.
I would just clarify for the sake of

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the listeners. I've actually never had
anyone in the Bigfoot community asked me to

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dune it down. It's always been
media personalities, not even media personalities,

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but the gatekeepers in media, and
we all have our accruede experiences that sort

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of bias future experience is right.
If you have certain negative interactions, you

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might enter into other interactions with a
little bit of a guard up. Then.

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I used to be in a major
label band, and I have a

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lot of friends that we went through
that same major label system back when those

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sort of companies mattered. Nowadays they
don't really matter anymore. But this is

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the late nineties and the early two
thousands, and one of the things that

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we experienced in the things that I've
seen over and over again is that very

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often an artist would be discovered,
let's say, and put into a context

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by the people that discovered them,
and then other things would work in the

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market. Other bands are their acts, other genres, and the people that

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were the gatekeepers, the decision makers, would say, you what you're doing,

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but this thing works, and so
if we can make you like this,

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you will work, which is just
ridiculous. It's over the years that

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I started speaking publicly about the Sasquatch
subject in two thousand and seven. Terrestrial

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radio and internet radio, blog talk
back in the day, and podcasts and

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public speaking has just gone on through
the years, and audiences have always been

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thankfully, very receptive. But it's
always been these sort of media types that

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have reached out and said, hey, we love what you're doing, we'd

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love to talk about a project,
like oh great. But I always try

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to take the calls, even though
I almost always end up saying no because

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they just sound so stressful. I
don't really think i'd be a part of

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this. And it's the same sort
of discussionist. We want you to dumb

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everything down and be more like this
other sort of like reality show that has

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nothing at all to do with science
or biology or the pursuit of wildlife.

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And it's again, hey, this
thing works, and so if we can

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make you like this, then you
would work. And I've heard that so

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many times. That's always the reason
I end up saying no is that these

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people are assuming that the audience is
not intelligent, which is the worst mistake

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that they could make, because,
as you know as a podcaster, there

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are podcasts with people that are much
more articulate and burbose and much more intelligent

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than me, talking about subjects that
are much more mainstream, even some that

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are much more esoteric than the sasquatch, that accumulate millions and sometimes tens of

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millions of views and downloads, and
some of those podcasts have been around for

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many years, and so you look
at those numbers, you go, there's

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not a single network show that's doing
anything close to these numbers. And yet

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these people want to tell me or
these other podcasters what an audience can or

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can't handle, and they're not even
coming close. And so I've heard that

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so many times. And then through
the process of writing this book, which

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I always knew I wanted to self
publish because I thought this might be the

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only thing I ever write after twenty
years of pursuing the subject. And there's

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certain things that I can absolutely live
with, and failure by my own devices

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is one of them. If I
write exactly the book that I want to

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write and no one cares, I
can live with that. But if I

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count out all these other people's wishes
and demands and what they think people want

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from a subject that they don't even
understand, the gatekeepers and then it fails.

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It's I couldn't live with myself.
And so the last straw. I

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had already written the manuscript and there
was no preface at that point, and

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then a literary professional weighed in and
read it and said the same thing everyone

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else says, Oh, you need
to change everything. You need to get

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rid of all these technical terms.
You need to get rid of all the

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sort of scientific nomenclature and ditch all
this sort of language. And I just

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thought, that is the last straw, like, I'm not doing this.

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And then I thought, oh,
you know what I'll do is I'll just

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write in the preface here's exactly why
I use the language I use. And

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it's primarily because I will never underestimate
the audience and I won't underestimate the reader.

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And it's that simple. But yeah, it's definitely a labor of love.

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And it's very difficult because I've just
lived in the space of dialogue for

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so long, like I said,
since two thousand and seven, and so

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when you're having a conversation, and
I find this even in public events too,

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because even when you're speaking to a
crowd, you're getting feedback all the

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time. You can see when people
tilt their head and squint their eyes,

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or if they lean in and they're
really listening and they're enjoying it, and

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so you can modify what you're saying. If you can tell you you've thrown

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a term out there, let's say, and people are cringing yours, Okay,

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I think of it like this,
and you can define that term.

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Or you can use some analogy.
You can pick and choose your analogies based

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on that room. If I'm speaking
to the biology department at some university,

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I'll use certain analogies, and if
I'm speaking to a room full of like

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my musician friends, I'll use different
analogies. But when you're writing a book,

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it's you have to say it one
way for all readers for all time.

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It's like paralysis by analysis, because
you know what I kept telling people

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during this process. You can ask
yourself, is there a better way to

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say this? And the answer is
always yes, because it's a better way

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for who, for which audience,
Because depending on who your reader is,

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there might be a better way.
And so trying to be meticulous about every

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word choice and the structure and the
order of everything that was very time consuming

264
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and labor intensive for sure. Yeah, I can only imagine, and I'll

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be honest, I have a pretty
decent vocabulary, but I definitely had to

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look up a couple of the words. They were in the book as I

267
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was reading, though, because it's
not something that you necessarily hear in everyday

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discourse and just regular conversation. But
I like that because it challenges me to

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go outside my comfort zone. If
I'm reading a book and I have to

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look up if it's eight, ten
chapters, whatever the length of the book

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is, and I have to look
up five or six words, over the

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course of the time of reading that
book, I tend to get to the

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end of it and think, Wow, that was challenging for me, and

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it makes me want to go back
and read it again to make sure I

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haven't missed anything. It keeps me
on my toes. And that's exactly what

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your book did. I found myself
over and over as I was finished the

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day, I would try to at
least read one or two chapters. Every

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day. After I'd finished work before
bed, you're winding down, having some

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tea, and I would pick the
book up and I would read it.

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I found myself at times going back
and picking up where I left off in

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the previous chapter to make sure that
I didn't miss anything because there was so

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much information there. Let's talk a
little bit about the fundamental question that you

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really start the book with. Is
that something you've always struggled with as a

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researcher or is it something that's come
around most recently for you and the zeitgeist.

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We know the phenomenon exists. That's
one of the things that you talk

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about in the book. I've talked
about that on the show. I think

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you even mentioned it before when you
were on the show. We are all

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aware that the phenomenon itself exists.
The real question is it boils down to

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two that you pose in the book. Those fundamental questions are there for everybody.

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How did you arrive at your answers? And have you really arrived an

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answer for yourself about those fundamental questions
about is it a psychological is it a

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biological creature? Where are you on
that and how did that help you frame

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out the book when you started the
process. It's changed a lot over the

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years, and when the beginning,
I'd had an experience when I was young

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that was consistent with what other people
described maybe a tribute to the Sasquatch phenomenon.

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Though I didn't see these things.
It was dark and it was in

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a dense forest at night, and
so there was this kind of question at

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that point of what could that have
been that we encountered that was so frightening,

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And through doing research and speaking to
other local Sasquatch witnesses and people that

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have claimed at least to see Sasquatch, the propositions emerging maybe there are the

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undiscovered animals that fit this description,
and maybe that is what you encountered.

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And so in the beginning it was
very resistant to that because I thought,

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oh, there's just no way,
there's just no way. I'll get to

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the bottom of this in no time
flat and I'll figure out that it's all

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nonsense. And then, of course
you have these transformative experiences of meeting claimants,

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let's say, witnesses, face to
face and hearing their stories. Because

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for me, it started with local
witnesses. My dad was the local doctor.

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So some of these people were people
that he'd known for years, that

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were his patients and that they entrusted
their lives with him, and he had

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this great deal of trust in them. And so when it's someone that you

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know or respect personally that is seemingly
of unimpeachable character or has some sort of

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like authority or responsibility in their lives. It's a transformative experience to be face

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to face with them and hear about
what they say they saw and where to

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go in those environments and see it. And so I would definitely say that

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from that sort of initial position,
it didn't take me long to be and

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that true believer can stay tuned for
more Sasquat Jotsy will right back after these

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messages. And I think that's just
the natural part. A natural progression of

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anything that you're interested in, is
that like just a full blown acceptance,

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I'm convinced or I'm starting to be
convinced and therefore like absolute true believer.

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And then life happens, right,
and you meet people that lie to you,

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and you meet people that are lying
to you, maybe just because they

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want something personally or because they are
maliciously trying to fool you to pull a

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gotcha, people that fabricate evidence,
people that you trust, and then you

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find out relying to you. So
these sort of things happen. Maybe true

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believer through being cautious and then cynical, because you will encounter these sort of

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negative elements that every human endeavor is
infected with, not just errors or misidentifications

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or wishful thinking, but actual like
fabrications and things. And so I definitely

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spent some time in that vitriolic cynical
space and thought, I've just been lying

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to myself all along, I've been
fooling myself. What was I thinking?

330
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What was I doing? But then
I still had not only my own experiences,

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but all this information to contend with
that I've been accumulating for so many

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years, and again these questions that
just can't be answered simply to say if

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it's just a psychological phenomenon, because
that's the setup of the book. It's

334
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like, you have these claims,
and you have this evidence that associated with

335
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the claims, and either there are
animals that fit the description of the claims

336
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and that have feet shaped like the
footprints attributed to these animals, or if

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no such animals exist, then it
has to all be the product of the

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human mind in some shape or form, creatively involuntarily, some sort of archetypical

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motif, etc. And spoiler alert, the fact of the matter is that

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those things can all occur simultaneously,
that there could be these real animals that

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people have brief encounters with or even
extended encounters with, and then their representations

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of those observations. That's what we're
all focused on, because we don't have

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the actual animal. That's why the
question hasn't been answered to the satisfaction of

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00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:11.400
society. All of our time and
energy is spent on the representation of what

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people claim to have seen. A
footprint is not the foot, it's a

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representation of the interaction between the foot
and the ground. Now, if there

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is no such animal, then there
can't be a footprint. It's just an

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artistic manifestation, let's say, of
this idea, this imaginative form. And

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so that was part of the impetus
behind the book, is trying to say,

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let's break through this sort of veil
that is the representation claims, stories,

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00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:41.279
narratives, the mythos, the art
associated with it, artistic representations,

352
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its iconography, and see, could
there be a real empirical biological source for

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this phenomena or is it in the
absence of that all just the product of

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the human mind. And so I'm
convinced that there is a biological source.

355
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I've had experiences consistent with that,
but I've never seen one, and so

356
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that's slight cosmically maddening. That was
one of the things I think Brian Brown

357
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:04.759
mentioned to me. I think Michael
May's mentioned it to me when I was

358
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.400
talking to him a couple of weeks
ago. Is everybody is so upset that

359
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you haven't had that experience where you've
actually seen one of these things. I

360
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:15.440
certainly agree with that, because I
don't go out in the woods and do

361
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a lot of boots on the ground
research as much as I would really like

362
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too, frankly, but to seek
the subject for twenty plus years and to

363
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:26.880
not have that definitive because that's where
I am. Even after reading your book.

364
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:32.000
You and I agree on most things, but it's very difficult for me

365
00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:37.359
to stay off of that cynical path
because I am a very skeptical person.

366
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:42.559
And after talking to hundreds of people
that have claimed to have had interactions with

367
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these things, some very physical,
some citing, some not, some having

368
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physical interactions to the point of some
people even being injured by them allegedly,

369
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and I want to believe more than
anybody on this planet that all of those

370
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:03.960
stories and anecdotal accounts are in fact
real, I'm just not convinced that they

371
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.920
are. I too believe that there
is some sort of biological creature that is

372
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:12.160
responsible in part for at least some
of those interactions. But I do believe,

373
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and that's something that I've talked about
addressing many times on the show,

374
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.920
and I'm still trying to wrangle the
cats and get everybody together to address some

375
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:25.119
of the psychological effects. Maybe it's
mental health issues, maybe it's other things

376
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:29.079
and personality traits that lead people to
do some of the things they do.

377
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:33.799
I fabricate evidence and embellish stories and
makeup stories altogether. And that's something that

378
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.359
I'm working on putting together because I
think it's something we really don't do a

379
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:45.400
whole lot of in the community as
podcasters and researchers. Frankly, everybody just

380
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.319
wants to dismiss that you hear a
crazy story. I was editing one before

381
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.640
I hopped on with You today,
and I had this guy with this really

382
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:59.200
out there situation, and I have
struggled because I've been sitting on this episode

383
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:03.720
for two months, and I finally
just came to the realization literally yesterday in

384
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.119
a conversation with Danny, I was
like, shit, I post this or

385
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:10.920
not, because people are going to
hear it and they're going to say that

386
00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:15.480
is the craziest shit I've ever heard. There's no way that happened. And

387
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:21.119
this guy is one off of his
rocker, and I'm like, that is

388
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:25.480
definitely a possibility. On the flip
side of that, I have created the

389
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:30.720
show to give people a space to
come and share their experiences. I do

390
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:33.599
not sit in judgment of anybody's experience. I don't sit in judgment of your

391
00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:37.599
experience any more than I do the
guy who has this weird, wild claim

392
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:41.680
that he made about an interaction he
had with a sasquatch. It's this catch

393
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.799
twenty two for me, and I
have to admit sometimes those stories do push

394
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:52.920
me towards the more cynical take on
the subject. But hopefully people will have

395
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.079
the same experience I did. When
I read your book, it brought me

396
00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:59.119
back in because I'm like, Okay, I can track with what Matt's saying,

397
00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.240
I can feel that way. It's
okay for me to feel that way

398
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:07.519
about certain parts of this as long
as I stay centered and I just make

399
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.640
up my mind. Like you said, Eventually, you just have to make

400
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:12.599
up your mind about what you believe, and I do believe that there is

401
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:18.400
a biological creature that's responsible for at
least some of the interactions that we hear.

402
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.000
Let's talk a little bit about some
of the things that you obviously did

403
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:25.960
a lot of research in on the
book, and that really stuck out to

404
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.000
me, and it's one of the
things that has always grounded me when I'm

405
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:34.000
talking to people about this subject,
is the indigenous people's take on this,

406
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:38.440
their art, They were represented in
their history, their oral history for so

407
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:41.279
long. You address a little bit
of that in the book. Can you

408
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.480
talk a little bit about what that
journey was like for you into the research

409
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:51.119
into the indigenous connection with Bigfoot and
Sasquatch. Yeah, it's very difficult because

410
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:56.240
narratives are subjective and they're constantly evolving. And when people would say, oh,

411
00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:59.799
we know that there have been stories
about these things for many thousands of

412
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:02.519
years, we could assume that to
be true, but we don't know because

413
00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:06.079
these are oral traditions, so they
weren't externalized in some written form that we

414
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:10.079
can date carbon dating or something of
that nature, where you have these documents

415
00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:14.079
that you could difinitively pin down to
a certain date in time, but clearly

416
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:19.200
they're very old stories that have been
transmitted for who knows how many generations.

417
00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:25.960
The other difficult thing about parsing those
is that we're looking at so many disparate

418
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:30.559
cultures that often get thrown under the
single rubric of Native American or Indigenous North

419
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:34.680
Americans. It's there's not some monolithic
culture. You have to look at these

420
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:40.039
things on a almost like cultured,
a cultural basis, or these sort of

421
00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:44.599
almost individual bases. And then the
difficult thing is that when they are externalized

422
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:48.839
into written form, it's by non
natives. As Westerners arrived, they're recording

423
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:56.400
their sort of versions of these narratives
or these oral traditions in Western language,

424
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:02.319
and very often editorializing as they're doing
so, and so accumulating all that information,

425
00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:06.279
I think there's probably so much more
that hasn't been accumulated yet, because

426
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:10.839
obviously, if we're to believe that
there were no other non human apes in

427
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:15.720
North America, which is a institutional
paradigm, then of course whatever people described

428
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:22.000
in these older societies, they wouldn't
have some referential animal to compare that with.

429
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.559
And so you do have these other
cultures where let's say the mystery ape

430
00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:32.640
or the sort of wild man.
Let's say in parts of Africa or Asia

431
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.519
or even South America, there are
apes and monkeys that live on those continents,

432
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:38.960
and so they'll say this is like
that, but different because they have

433
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.200
a comparative thing, Whereas in North
America, if we know, there's no

434
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:48.079
other apes besides humans and maybe sasquatches, and no monkeys or anything like that,

435
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.240
until you get down to Central and
South America, very often they are

436
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:55.720
couched in these terms that make them
akin to other animals, akin to humans,

437
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:59.640
or something in between, some mediator
between those worlds. So it's hard

438
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:03.240
to try all those things down because
there's not like a nomenclature that you can

439
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:08.200
trace down. It would be the
same that if societies, archaic societies,

440
00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:11.519
let's say, around the world,
referred to whales as big fish, and

441
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.640
then Westerners came along and said,
well, that's hogwash, because whales are

442
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.440
not fish. They're mammals. Well, phenomenologically, they're in the water,

443
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:22.200
they breached the surface, they've got
fins, they'd look like big fish.

444
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:26.519
You would experience them the same way
you would experience big fish. And so

445
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:30.640
when you're seeing those non native descriptions
of those traditions, they're in that sort

446
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:37.799
of dismissive fashion, and mostly because
a I would say that the association with

447
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:44.079
supernatural abilities or attributes metaphysical sort of
attributes, and be the fact that even

448
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:48.000
the non natives didn't have a very
strong understanding about non human apes. Some

449
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.119
of these things hadn't been discovered yet. For example that lowland gorillas weren't discovered

450
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.359
until the mid eighteen hundreds, and
later mountain gorillas in the early nineteen hundreds,

451
00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:00.680
So there aren't these sort of comparative
animals, and in most of the

452
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.680
fossil apes that we might associate with
this or at least have similar forms,

453
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:10.039
hadn't been unearthed yet. Of course, they encountered these stories and dismissed them,

454
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:15.279
that the subjects of these stories or
these traditions or narratives were simply spiritual

455
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:18.839
mythological beings because they didn't have some
real world point of contact to associate it

456
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.480
with. So I think even what
I covered in the book, there's probably

457
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:27.279
so much more information, but it's
just very difficult to find because a lot

458
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:33.680
of those ethnographies, some of those
are probably collected in published works that might

459
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.000
have gone out of print one hundred
years ago. But the fascinating thing is

460
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:41.240
that if you're making the proposition that
these large homonoids made it into North America

461
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:45.599
at some point in time, whether
that's during the Miocene, Pliocene, some

462
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:51.640
point the Pleistocene, whenever they would
have been co occurring with early North American

463
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:56.240
inhabitants, that there should be some
clues, but you wouldn't expect for them

464
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.200
to be just totally absent in the
record of indigenous traditions and artists, stick

465
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.000
representations, and low and behold,
there are these ape like creatures there that

466
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:07.960
are described as larger than a person, very often with long arms, very

467
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.480
often with this sort of typical no
visible constriction at the neck, very active

468
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:17.400
at night. They produced these whistling
sounds. They have beat much larger than

469
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:19.119
the humans, but a man like
footprint, and they hurl stones like all

470
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:22.759
the things that we would associate with
sasquatch now and all that stuff's present.

471
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:32.119
And then these artistic representations that accurately
depict ape like cranial facial features that they

472
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.680
couldn't have had any real world inspiration
for unless they were seeing some form of

473
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:38.680
living apes and so to me,
that's fascinating and that's got to be the

474
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.759
starting point. So the book is
structured as I introduced the phenomenon and why

475
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:47.839
it's in the state that it's in, this unresolved state where you have people

476
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:51.839
that claim to have observed the phenomenon. Let's say you have people that have

477
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:56.519
documented evidence or documented things that they
tout as evidence. Then you have contenders

478
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.720
like myself who investigate those claims and
look into that evidence. And then you

479
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:05.039
have the institutions science, peacademia,
the government who say there's nothing to the

480
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:07.559
claims and evidence at all. And
so the goals should be, like,

481
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.440
how do we arrive at an answer
that satisfies all of those parties independent or

482
00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:16.920
not independently, but collectively right,
because the witnesses are satisfied with their interpretations,

483
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:22.279
which are vast and varied, the
contenders are satisfied with their investigations,

484
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:29.279
and there's many conclusions. Let's say
that investigators have arrived at what the sasquatch

485
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:32.880
actually is, most of which are
like diametrically opposed, and in the institutions

486
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:36.599
thin gets just all nonsense. And
so how do we get to a point

487
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:39.559
where all of these parties agree.
And so you start with the fossil record,

488
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:42.640
and that's where I started in the
book. But then, Okay,

489
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:45.319
if there's animals and the fossil record
like this, shouldn't we expect to see

490
00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:50.240
that in the record of human occupation
in North America? And my estimation we

491
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:52.880
do. And so that's the crux
of that whole chapter. The other thing

492
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:59.000
that I've always found fascinating is the
historical account that people dive into. It's

493
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:00.960
one of my favorite things to do. I try to dig back and find

494
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:07.359
some of the older what I consider
to be sasquatch encounters that people are reporting

495
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:09.559
back a lot of years ago.
And it's one of the things that you

496
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:13.400
talk about in the book. Can
you talk a little bit about the historical

497
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:17.160
record and what you found. Did
you find commonalities throughout some of these historical

498
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:22.880
records that you reference in the book, and if so, did that point

499
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.279
you in a different direction the same
direction you were headed in? What did

500
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:30.759
you think about the historical record versus
what people are experiencing today in twenty twenty

501
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:36.359
three. Oh, for the most
part, they're describing identical phenomena, albeit

502
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:40.200
with maybe different language because now we've
updated our nomenclature, let's say, because

503
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:45.400
now we live in this modern sort
of society. But they're describing what inarguably

504
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:51.720
exactly the same phenomena, whether it's
a biological or psychological phenomenon. For me,

505
00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:55.039
that was what set the hook first, beyond interviewing local witnesses. So

506
00:33:55.079 --> 00:34:00.400
when I first started researching this,
that's where my sort of path fled,

507
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.319
was like, if they're really are
Because I grew up in northeast Georgia,

508
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:06.839
that's where my first encounter was,
the first experience. Let's say, I

509
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:09.360
thought, they're really real animals.
They can't have just gotten here last summer.

510
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:12.719
They have to have been here for
quite a while. And as I

511
00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.840
was reading the first books that I
could get my hands on the subject,

512
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:21.679
there were these references to historical reports
from the Northwest, referencing like mountain devils

513
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:23.719
and wild men, etc. And
so I thought the same thing should be

514
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:28.760
happening here, if these are real
animals. The problem was that most of

515
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.920
those early researchers were so focused on
the Northwest that they weren't looking in other

516
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:37.679
areas, and there wasn't like a
Georgia specific or a Southern Appalachian specific website

517
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:43.199
or group or anything at that time. And within the first year of searching,

518
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:47.800
I found almost forty print media articles
that predated nineteen hundred from Northeast Georgia

519
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:52.639
alone that were describing as some of
those I included in that chapter because I

520
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.039
wanted to pull some from other sources, like chat Are Men's The Historical Bigfoot,

521
00:34:57.159 --> 00:35:00.119
especially that second edition that's like that
thick that's so great repository of those

522
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:05.280
stories. But to see that it
went back so far in time at least

523
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:07.519
to say, okay, this is
not something that came about because of some

524
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:14.119
radio program or the television in search
of or whatever, or maybe precursors to

525
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:16.840
that, that this goes back a
very long way, these descriptions or claims.

526
00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:21.159
And of course, if you look
at the broader collection of those,

527
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:22.719
even a lot of the ones in
the Historical Big Pot, some of those

528
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:28.360
are just so obviously fictionalized stories,
because some of them are like wild men

529
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:31.119
that are covered in hair and fish
scales, and they wear clothes, and

530
00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:36.880
this is all sorts of this bizarre
amalgam of all these different you could almost

531
00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:39.679
say, like mythological features. But
then there is that set. That's for

532
00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:45.719
all intents and purposes, they're describing
non human apes that behave in accordance with

533
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:49.760
what we know about apes, and
they appear their physiology, their morphology is

534
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:53.079
in accordance with that. And to
me, those are fascinating because they resonate

535
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:59.880
as more likely to be accurate because
there wasn't as much material to influence such

536
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:02.559
things, not even material about the
living apes. Now that changes at a

537
00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:07.599
certain point when Dushaiu's book is published, and I pointed that out with one

538
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:13.440
example in the book, because Paul
Deshaiu was essentially credited with discovering, let's

539
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:17.400
say, or at least introducing to
the western world, the lowland gorilla and

540
00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:22.440
published a book about his expeditions and
his observations there, and so I have

541
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:28.280
a few references in the book to
his essentially recording of the indigenous people's beliefs

542
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:31.400
about gorillas in those regions. And
then also I was going through the historical

543
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:37.119
Bigfoot and there's one particular report in
there that's super detailed and it describes,

544
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:42.360
among other things like chest beating.
I thought, oh, that's really interesting,

545
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:45.519
And I was writing that sort of
mid eighteen sixties time frame. So

546
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:51.639
I thought, I wonder what the
first print reference to gorilla chest beating is,

547
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:55.679
because if this is the precursor to
that's really important significant if this was

548
00:36:55.719 --> 00:37:00.599
first reported in this Sasquatch thing.
So I was going through Yu's book and

549
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:06.000
then, like in the report,
I think it was from Pennsylvania. I

550
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:08.119
could look it up just to to
be sure. Here, yeah, I

551
00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:13.639
was printed in the Stark County Democrat
from Canton, Ohio. But the reports

552
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:17.840
supposedly happened in Pennsylvania. And so
the way that this report has written,

553
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:22.400
this sort of correspondence talks about this
ape that's encountered of a certain size and

554
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:27.519
build, and this gray parchment like
skin and with roars and beats its chest

555
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:30.960
and this sort of attack. And
then I was going through Jashai's book,

556
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:34.519
and he talks about encountering this ape
of a certain size and build with gray

557
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:37.679
parchment like skin, and it beats. It's just and it's a verbatim plagiarism,

558
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.960
almost verbatim word for word. And
thought, okay, I've got to

559
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:45.239
put that in here. I have
to show that in this book to say,

560
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:47.559
hey, at least one example,
and there's probably many more. But

561
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:53.559
once the gorilla is introduced, Now
there is an inspiration that journalists, let's

562
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:57.760
say, or whoever's writing these things. Maybe it was just a prank letter

563
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:00.599
and they printed it, or maybe
a journalist made it up and there was

564
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:02.800
never a letter that was received to
begin with. Once there was a real

565
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:07.920
world inspiration, people could then derive
these sorts of ape like characters or generate

566
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:14.000
these stories that have some degree of
their similitude because they're based on real ape

567
00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:19.239
encounters. But the ones prior to
that, when you read about cathemral activity

568
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:22.880
in certain sorts of this omnivorous diet, or certain sort of dietary preferences or

569
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.159
behaviors, and you think, what
was the inspiration for that? What could

570
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:31.480
it have possibly been? Either it
was entirely imaginary and yet somehow perfectly accurate

571
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:37.000
and predictive, or this person really
saw what they said they saw, and

572
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:40.519
that's what's being described here. So
the historical record is fascinating, and I

573
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:45.039
think there's probably so many more of
these print articles that have just not even

574
00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:49.519
been found yet. Let's talk a
little bit about you mentioned it earlier.

575
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:52.840
I want to address the fossil record. That's something that always comes up outside

576
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:55.639
of the fossil record. It comes
up about why we don't have bodies,

577
00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:59.480
why we can't find a body of
a sasquatch, Why is there never been

578
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:02.280
one found? Why are they not
in the fossil record? Some people say

579
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:06.159
they are. That's one of the
things that you talk about in the book.

580
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:08.239
Can you talk a little bit about
the fossil record and why that?

581
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:14.280
I think, what is it?
Less than one percent of the total collection

582
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:16.760
of everything on Earth? Is it
really in the fossil record? And it's

583
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:22.960
astounding if you really think about it, how little is actually in the fossil

584
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:24.840
record. Can you talk a little
bit about that and why that is and

585
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:30.320
why it's so difficult to find fossils, particularly of apes. Oh, certainly,

586
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:36.079
there's so many factors that have to
play out in a specific order of

587
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:40.159
proverbial stars that have to align for
an animal to expire and eventually become a

588
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:45.400
fossil, And so it is one
of the rarest processes in nature. And

589
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:50.199
the reason I think that the fossil
record in this context is important, and

590
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.679
especially the Asian ape clay that produced
Intopithecus and Gigantopithecus, is because it at

591
00:39:54.719 --> 00:40:01.800
least demonstrates that there have been massive
apes, that we had broad generalist diets,

592
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:07.159
a wide variety of foods that they
exploited, that lived in closed canopy

593
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:12.559
forests with dense understories, and that
especially the younger form Gigantopithecus Blackie, lived

594
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:16.119
alongside the genus Homo for a very
long time, well over a million years.

595
00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:22.480
And now there was a paper that
was recently published, and I wish

596
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:24.719
i'd had it at the time when
I was finishing that part of the manuscript,

597
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:30.000
because basically argues that there's a series
of teeth. I believe it's five

598
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:32.840
teeth from one of these gigant Epithecus
sites that has been dated now to a

599
00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:38.440
roughly eighty to one hundred thousand years
ago. So it's pushing it closer to

600
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:45.119
us in time in terms of their
survival, let's say, because obviously the

601
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:47.920
paradigm is that they went extinct.
But you could say that, okay,

602
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:52.639
because so few of the living animals
that have ever occurred on this planet were

603
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:57.960
ever fossilized. Statistically speaking, if
we were to discover a new animal,

604
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:01.119
the likelihood would be that it's not
represented in the fossil record, or that

605
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:07.000
its lineage is not represented because if
you only have one to five percent of

606
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:13.159
all living things represented, we're all
possible let's say genera or species represented there.

607
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.079
Then statistically you like it's more likely
not. But if you're arguing for

608
00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:20.119
the existence of the sasquatch, but
you can't really say, hey, the

609
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:22.079
best argument I have is that it's
not in the fossil record, because it's

610
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.960
like I'm making an argument from nothing
from a vacuum. And so you could

611
00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:31.079
say, what do we know?
What animals do fit this particular description or

612
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:36.320
at least come close and approximate it. And that's why I think the Intopithecus

613
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:40.519
gigant epithecus line is so very important, because what people describe with sasquatches is

614
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:45.320
something much larger than a human,
much larger than any extant or living ape.

615
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:50.519
It's something that exploits a wide variety
of foods, this sort of vast

616
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.559
array of has the world is.
It's like dietary options are open to it.

617
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:58.719
They live in dense forests, etc. Etc. And so in gigant

618
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:01.440
Empithecus, you have something that fits
that description, and then again something that

619
00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:07.559
lives alongside at least for a very
long time Homo erectus our ancestors and likely

620
00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:12.559
was contemporaneous with early Homo sapiens.
So if everything you need is right there,

621
00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:15.639
Big eight, a huge diet,
lots of variety lives in these dense

622
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:21.760
forests alongside early humans like Okay,
Now is the proposition that it could be

623
00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:24.639
here, that it makes it that
much more likely. But it rises up

624
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:29.800
to the level of plausibility, Let's
say, because it already occurred once and

625
00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:34.400
where did it occur? It occurred
in a continent that's connected to North America

626
00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:37.599
at various points in time. There's
at least, to my understanding, in

627
00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:44.519
the Pleistocene alone, we're aware of
at least sixteen points in time during that

628
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:49.239
epic that the continents were connected,
and go back further in time into like

629
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:53.400
the Miocene for example, And so
you have this massive interchange of mammals to

630
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:59.480
include elk and wolverines and bear and
the probositians, you know, mammots,

631
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:02.239
etc. That we're coming and going. You know, it's not all just

632
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:07.039
this Asia into North America flow.
There's a lot of North American animals that

633
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:09.599
ended up in Asia, and so
it becomes more and more plausible. So

634
00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:15.519
that the argument I'm making once you
understand the totality of the information we have

635
00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:19.960
about Gigantopithecus, which I try to
condense in that chapter and put it all

636
00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:22.840
in there, because I do hear
people say, frustrating, we know next

637
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:27.639
to nothing about Gigantapthecus. No,
we actually do know quite a lot based

638
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:31.199
on these jaws and teeth and the
distribution in China and Thailand and Vietnam and

639
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:37.000
down to Indonesia and Java. There's
two mandibles found in like twenty fourteen or

640
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:39.760
two mandible fragments, and so we
know quite a bit about them, what

641
00:43:39.800 --> 00:43:44.840
their diet was, and how they
co existed, or that they co existed

642
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:46.840
with us, but we don't know
exactly how, And so it brings it

643
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:51.079
to the level of plausibility where you
could say, all right, the only

644
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:57.679
two questions that need to be answered
in the affirmative to make Gigantopithecus the sasquatch

645
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:01.239
would be like, did they it's
in North America? Are they still around?

646
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:06.840
That's it? Now. What I
really want people to understand is that

647
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:09.880
in the book, and for years
of speaking about this, I'm not arguing

648
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:17.320
that Gigantopithecus Blackie is the sasquatch because
a clade will produce a radiation of genera

649
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:22.880
and a genus will produce a radiation
of species. And so we know that

650
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:27.159
this Asian ape clade existed, but
we're only aware of two genera Intopithecus,

651
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:30.800
which is the older form when it
comes eight point six million years ago roughly,

652
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:35.639
and that's India and Pakistan essentially where
those fossil sites are, and then

653
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:39.639
Gigantopithecus. So you could reasonably assume
there would have been other genera, and

654
00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:44.519
each genus would have produced other species, some of which may have been a

655
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:50.360
lot more sasquatched than others. And
so it's not necessarily because no gen is

656
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:53.960
what they call uni specific or monotypic. Now there might just be one species

657
00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:59.960
left. Stay tuned for more sasquatch
jobs will be right back after these messages.

658
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:07.159
Supposedly Homo is a unit specific genus
at this time because we are supposedly

659
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:13.000
the only species of Homo around,
although doctor Gregory Fourth in his excellent book

660
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.800
about the potential survival of Homo flores
the Interest, makes a pretty interesting case

661
00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:22.000
that's worth thinking about. But so
my argument would be that some form within

662
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:27.079
that eight clade, if not one
of those known genera, and if not,

663
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:30.960
some form of Gigantopithecus could have gotten
over here, doesn't have to be

664
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:36.159
specifically Gigantopithecus Blackie. It's important to
understand all that so that people could see

665
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:37.320
that, Oh, I'm really not
asking for that much. Now if you

666
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:42.199
talk about a lot of other fossil
candidates like paranthropists, Now we have to

667
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:45.480
ask a laundry list of questions,
or you could say, make a laundry

668
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:52.519
list of assumptions to account for that
to become what's responsible for the North American

669
00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:58.679
sasquatch phenomenon or legend or mythos with
again, Gigantopithecus, two little assumptions they

670
00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:01.719
got over here, they're still around. That's it. And so the fossil

671
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:07.280
record at least provides us a great
candidate that only requires a couple of assumptions.

672
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:09.719
Now, in terms of why some
of these things aren't found, a

673
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:15.400
big part of that is going to
be where are people looking? Because excavation

674
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:22.360
sites and people that are professionals or
even amateurs lay people, they're not necessarily

675
00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:25.960
looking in some of the best habitat, which would be densely forested mountains that

676
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:30.000
have a tremendous amount of annual precipitation. Now those places are less likely to

677
00:46:30.039 --> 00:46:36.360
preserve bones as fossils anyway, But
even if they were, all things considered,

678
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:38.480
you're only going to find fossils where
you're digging for them, unless somehow

679
00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:44.239
it fortuitously washes up in like a
plast or side. Or have you watched

680
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:46.519
any of this stuff about the bone
yard in Alaska? I have not,

681
00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:52.400
Oh man, I won't belabor the
point that there's a gentleman there who he

682
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:57.079
and his family bought what was previously
a mining company that mined gold, but

683
00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:00.400
they also found these bones. And
so in this one particular area that's like

684
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:05.440
an acre of however large, his
acreage is like they've pulled now like a

685
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.920
quarter of a million fossils. I
don't even think they're fossilized. I think

686
00:47:08.920 --> 00:47:13.360
they're just preserved bones, like in
a sort of permafrost. And so they

687
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:16.360
use water from the creek and they
blast away these surfaces. And I think

688
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:23.039
he said, just the mammoths alone
are the individuals represented there in the thousands,

689
00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:27.559
maybe the tens of thousands. So
I feel like sending him this and

690
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.199
being like, hey, would you
read chapter two and if you find anything

691
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:32.199
like this, let me know anything
that looks like that skull right there.

692
00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:37.159
So it's certainly possible, and it
is frustrating that they haven't found a fossil,

693
00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:42.760
but to me, like, I
can guarantee you even if we found

694
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:47.119
a fossil in North America, I
could say that a skull was dredged up

695
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:52.360
at the bone yard in Alaska and
it's ten thousand years old or twelve thousand

696
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:57.400
years old. You can guarantee that
the institutions would say, oh wow,

697
00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:00.960
they did get over here. Looks
like they to about Alaska and no further

698
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:07.880
and their survival there it peaked about
twelve thousand years ago. And I bet

699
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:10.679
that the encounters that they had with
humans are what gave rise to the Sasquatch

700
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:15.079
legend. But there's no reason whatsoever
to think that they're still around now.

701
00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:19.159
And so even a fossil be a
huge win, a huge discovery. I

702
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:22.719
would welcome it. It probably raise
a lot of eyebrows, but it wouldn't

703
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:25.280
be like they're real, they're here. There'd still be so much work left

704
00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:30.719
to do, and so the fixation
on fossils. I understand it, But

705
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:34.320
at the same time as well,
what would that really mean Even if we

706
00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:37.960
could respond to the skeptics with a
fossil, that would be the argument.

707
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:42.400
Maybe they did get here, but
they're not around now. Good point.

708
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:45.599
Let's talk a little bit about an
out there question. It's not necessarily directly

709
00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:50.400
related to the book, but it's
something that's been out there in the zeitgeist

710
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:54.199
just recently. It was a topic
of conversation at the conference last week.

711
00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:59.679
Is DNA and DNA studies. There's
been tons of things that have been done

712
00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:02.519
by people in the past, there's
things that are happening right now, there's

713
00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:07.159
plans to test DNA in the future. Where are you on the DNA question,

714
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:12.280
Because here's the problem I have,
as a very skeptical person, bordering

715
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:17.360
non cynical sometimes unfortunately about DNA and
DNA studies. I'm not a scientist.

716
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:22.360
I don't even play one on television. My thought behind DNA is you can't

717
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:27.800
just test something and say, Okay, this is what that is if you

718
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:32.679
don't have something to compare it to. And that's been the crux of maybe

719
00:49:32.679 --> 00:49:37.599
it's a misunderstanding about DNA and what's
in the works now. But if we

720
00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:43.679
don't have a type specimen, if
we don't have a comparison sample to place

721
00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:49.760
against possible DNA from a sasquatch or
anything, really in your opinion, I

722
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:53.320
know this is subjective and it is
your opinion. In your opinion, how

723
00:49:53.360 --> 00:50:00.320
do you see DNA moving the ball
down the field towards maybe eventually discovering these

724
00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:06.440
things as a scientific They're on the
map, they're real, just based on

725
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:10.000
DNA alone. How do you think
that's even plausible? What is your thoughts

726
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:15.039
on some of the current things that
are going on just in general with DNA

727
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:21.360
and sasquatch. As I understand it, which is very genetics is extremely difficult.

728
00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:23.960
I am certainly not a scientist.
I don't even I only have two

729
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:29.599
semesters of community college under my belt, like almost twenty years ago. So

730
00:50:29.639 --> 00:50:31.559
it's I do a lot of recreational
reading and popular science and on fiction,

731
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:35.920
and I try to stay up on
things. But genetics is definitely outside of

732
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:42.519
my scope of commanding understanding. So
as I understand it, most of what's

733
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:46.679
been done in that genetics space where
the DNA testing space with sasquatch has been

734
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:51.400
for lack of a better word,
or for lack of me knowing a better

735
00:50:51.400 --> 00:50:57.559
word, a sort of cursory or
superficial or preliminary sort of testing of these

736
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:04.039
purported or potential sasquatch stamp and I
think the problem is is that obviously these

737
00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:07.320
things, if they exist, would
be some sort of non human aid,

738
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:09.280
even if they are our closest living
relatives. Because I know a lot of

739
00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:14.760
people really lean towards this idea that
they are us or near us or semi

740
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:17.559
us or whatever, but they're clearly
not us, because do you know anyone

741
00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:22.199
who's a sasquatch, then I probably
you will probably won't meet a sasquatch.

742
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:25.679
That's a person if you get me
the person that's a sasquatch. Right.

743
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:30.039
So, now where they would fall
in that range, So let's say that

744
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:35.480
the proposition that they are some part
of that Asian giant ape line is correct,

745
00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:40.199
that ape lineage diverge from a common
ancestor with the orangutan about ten to

746
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:44.679
twelve million years ago. As a
quick side note, that's why I get

747
00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:49.159
so frustrated when people think that gigant
Epithetzin were just giant orangutans, because they

748
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:52.320
get depicted that way in the media
very often. It's ten to twelve million

749
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:55.280
years of divergence hardly be the same
thing. We only diverge from a common

750
00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:59.920
ancestor with chimps about six to seven
million years ago, and you would hard

751
00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:02.639
say that we're just chimps with shirts
on or something like that. We're quite

752
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:07.920
different animals. That being said,
arrangs share roughly like ninety seven percent of

753
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:13.639
our genetic material that's shared DNA,
so there's only a roughly three percent difference

754
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:16.000
between us and them. So if
these things were from that same Asian line,

755
00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:21.519
they probably share about the same degree
of DNA. Just for the sake

756
00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:24.559
of argument, let's say now,
if they are derived from an African line,

757
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:30.079
something either prior to or after the
split with the common ancestor with chimpanzees,

758
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:35.440
as some people have suggested, with
something like paranthropists, we share like

759
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:38.400
ninety eight to ninety nine percent of
our DNA with chimpanzees. So if it's

760
00:52:38.440 --> 00:52:44.280
something after that split, it would
be somewhere between somewhere around that ninety nine

761
00:52:44.320 --> 00:52:50.239
percent plus percentile. And so in
order to detect those differences as small as

762
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:54.519
like one to three percent, you
would really need to either sequence the entire

763
00:52:54.599 --> 00:53:00.679
genome of that sample or to be
extraordinarily lucky, and that whatever fragment you

764
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:07.760
get shows enough of that difference for
you to differentiate from a human. And

765
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:10.079
so one of the things we've seen
over and over again in this subject,

766
00:53:12.199 --> 00:53:15.679
and it's happened with the Asian mystery
phenomenon too, is that samples are collected.

767
00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:21.679
Let's say, hair samples are a
great example ABYSS where they are morphologically

768
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:24.880
distinct from human hair, like it's
there in terms of their structure and their

769
00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:29.599
anatomy, like, they're clearly not
human hair. They might have similarities,

770
00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:32.760
they show like shared characteristic but they're
not the same. They're you can differentiate

771
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:39.079
them. But that when these sort
of superficial cursory preliminary tests are conducted,

772
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:44.719
there's so much homology with human DNA. That's, oh, that's a human

773
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:47.519
hair. And if you say,
wait a minute, it is absolutely distinct

774
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:52.199
morphologically from humans, you say,
I don't know what it is. But

775
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:54.840
then it was contaminated by human handling, and we're just not getting the DNA

776
00:53:54.920 --> 00:53:59.119
from the actual hair. Going DNA
we're getting as human. But again they're

777
00:53:59.159 --> 00:54:02.639
only looking at these sections, these
fragments, and so again, as I

778
00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:09.320
understand it, the technology exists now
to sequence a full genome from as few

779
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:15.360
as three cells. So if someone
had, like the samples that were tested

780
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:21.679
over the decades, I heard stories
about there's a great one from Washington,

781
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.440
a blood sample that was collected.
A couple saw a sasquatch on the porch

782
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:28.840
of their cabin from the door,
and it spooped it and it turned in

783
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:30.559
it it hit its head on this
light bulb, the porch light, and

784
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:35.239
it left blood. And this was
collected, and the porch light's very high.

785
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:38.760
Apparently some tests were done and it
was like, oh, it's indistinguishable

786
00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:43.920
from human DNA. And the researcher
who collected that, who was a stellar

787
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:46.960
researcher, And I wish they were
still involved and engaged at least on the

788
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:51.119
public come. Maybe they still are
behind the scenes. But as I understand

789
00:54:51.159 --> 00:54:53.239
it, the person was like,
I'm done with this because I know that

790
00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:59.119
could not have been a human that
deposited that blood, but that's where it

791
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.280
was left. And so are those
sorts of stories over and over again.

792
00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:07.719
And so I think you don't necessarily
have to have a type specimen to derive

793
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:12.119
a full sequence now, because you
know, it was Doug Hicheck who described

794
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:14.639
this to me, and I think
the world of Doug and trust him that

795
00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:17.599
there are technologies now that if you
had as few as three cells, you

796
00:55:17.599 --> 00:55:22.360
could sequence a full genome if you
had access to that technology or the lab

797
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:25.360
or the budget, or whatever the
case we may be. I do think

798
00:55:25.360 --> 00:55:30.000
we're in a better position now to
do that. But the fact that so

799
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:34.159
many samples have come back as quote
unquote human when they're only looking at fragments.

800
00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:37.239
This is such a bad analogy,
and it shows you how bad I

801
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:43.639
am it thinking about genetics. But
if you imagine something like some vast library

802
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:46.719
and the analogy I always use,
like the Encyclopedia Britannica, and you had

803
00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:51.679
this series of however many volumes and
however many pages per volume, and you

804
00:55:51.719 --> 00:55:54.480
were to change it by one to
three percent, where you change a colon

805
00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:59.159
here to a semicolon, and a
common here to a period, and an

806
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:02.480
uppercase letter to a lowercase letter,
and you and they're not even evenly distributed

807
00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:07.079
that one to three percent. They're
like little regions where you just change these

808
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:10.800
small bits and then you rip it
into corners, tiny pieces, let's say,

809
00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:15.639
two inch squares, and you fly
over western North Carolina and you throw

810
00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:19.760
it out of a helicopter and people
are picking up these fragments and going,

811
00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:22.320
oh, this is just the regular
old Britannica as far as I can tip.

812
00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:25.199
First of all, they don't even
believe in the existence of the alternate

813
00:56:25.239 --> 00:56:30.320
Britannica that's one to three percent different. And then what are the odds that

814
00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:34.559
have the pieces they get there's enough
to differentiate and not just go, oh,

815
00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:37.480
that's actually just a typo that doesn't
prove the existence of a different version

816
00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:42.079
of this thing. When that's,
as I understand it, what the problem

817
00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:45.400
has been for all this time.
If sasquatches exist. Now, if they

818
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:50.920
don't exist, then we're just testing
raccoon hair and possum hair that are contaminated

819
00:56:50.920 --> 00:56:52.519
by humans with a lot of wishful
thinking. But I don't think that's the

820
00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:57.960
case. Because the hair section and
the evidence chapter alone, there were so

821
00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:00.800
many examples that I didn't some of
them, many of them I wasn't even

822
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:05.000
aware of before I started collecting all
that into a single place. And so

823
00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:10.760
I do think that there's something there
now that the technology is progressed and we

824
00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:15.119
might have the ability to fully sequence
a genome. We could identify that.

825
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:17.840
So I know that's a long winded
answer to part of the question. But

826
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:22.519
as for whether that will constitute proof, it's really hard to win people over

827
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:28.519
with something as cerebral. I don't
even wrap my head around genetics. For

828
00:57:28.599 --> 00:57:32.280
me, as just an unexperienced lay
person observer, they're no different than a

829
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:36.320
story because it's like, I don't
know anything about this, and whatever you

830
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:37.840
tell me, like I can either
choose to believe it or not because I

831
00:57:37.880 --> 00:57:42.559
don't know. I can't interpret all
this information. I don't have the qualifications.

832
00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:45.000
And so even if you could prove
that they existed via d ada,

833
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:47.079
the public is going to go,
what do they look like? Where are

834
00:57:47.079 --> 00:57:51.800
they? What's their skeletal structure,
what's their mating happen? People will still

835
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:53.880
want to see images and understand them, So it would still, I think,

836
00:57:53.920 --> 00:58:00.519
be a long time before proof or
acceptance occur. You know what I

837
00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:04.159
mean. I definitely know what you
mean, man. So let's do the

838
00:58:04.199 --> 00:58:07.920
final word on the book. What
is it that you want to have people

839
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:12.159
experience when they read the book?
What's the final thing that you want them

840
00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:15.960
to take away from picking up and
reading the phenomenal Sasquatch. There's a whole

841
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:19.840
lot of things. I hope it
accomplishes. At number one, I think

842
00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:23.599
for the lay person, I hope
that they see the complexity of this phenomenon

843
00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:27.480
and go, oh wow, I
had no idea that there was so much

844
00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:31.159
here, because I think most people
who are uninterested or disinterested just think that

845
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:37.679
there's this like legend and these are
just spooky campfire stories. And occasionally someone

846
00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:39.480
finds a divot in the ground and
they think it's a footprint, and they

847
00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:44.960
don't realize how much complexity and history
there is. So I'm hoping that for

848
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:49.199
the lay person, they would come
away with even if they didn't know anything

849
00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:52.559
about the subject, they would have
a very thorough education on the subject itself

850
00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:57.599
when they finished it, and that
they would see the validity or the potential

851
00:58:57.679 --> 00:59:00.760
validity of both of these arguments.
That there could be a biological source,

852
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:06.360
but there's a lot of psychological things
occurring as well that are obscuring the potential

853
00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:12.559
biological source. And I do hope
for even the most dedicated ardent sasquatch students

854
00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:14.760
that there's some things in there that
you go, oh wow, I never

855
00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:16.480
heard of that, or I've never
thought of it that way, or that

856
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:22.880
it offers fresh perspectives and it expands
the conversation or develop some of the ideas

857
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:27.079
further than what's been written before in
a way that you know it's certainly not

858
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:30.840
just a rehash of the old classics. Let's say I really tried to make

859
00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:35.800
a significant contribution, and Cliff is
very generous to say it gives people bigfoot

860
00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:37.239
one on one, it takes them
straight through three zero one, And I

861
00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:39.079
was like, oh, thank you. That's what I was aiming for,

862
00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:43.760
and so I hope that's what people
come away with. That is certainly what

863
00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:45.960
I came away with. So where's
the best place for people to pick up

864
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:51.519
the book? Certainly it's on Amazon
basically exclusively. That was the best place,

865
00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:53.760
in my opinion, that I could
offer it because it gets to people

866
00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:57.760
very quickly. It's all direct because
I'm on the road a lot. I

867
00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:00.840
travel, especially for field research,
so not in a position to have stock

868
01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:05.039
and send it to people. So
you can buy the print book on Amazon,

869
01:00:05.239 --> 01:00:07.239
or it's an Kindle version. There
will be an audiobook that will be

870
01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:12.320
released in early twenty twenty four and
then if you want autograph copies, you

871
01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:15.679
can find me in an event or
they are available at the North American big

872
01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:17.400
Foot Center's website. And so that's
the only place where you can get signed

873
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:21.960
copies like shipped directly is from Cliffs
and North American Digfoot Center, So I

874
01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:24.000
can sid need the links for that
as well. I will link to that

875
01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:28.159
in the show notes. You guys
go check it out. The phenomenal Sasquatch

876
01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:32.280
Seeking Natural Origins of a cultural Icon. Matt Brewett, It's always a pleasure

877
01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:35.440
and an honor to have you on
man. I've had a blast talking to

878
01:00:35.480 --> 01:00:37.719
you. Thanks so much for having
me. I always enjoy talking with you

879
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:43.199
and hopefully get to see you again
sooner than later. They say you don't

880
01:00:43.280 --> 01:01:07.440
gotta go home, But just as
Girls and Y sign things, stays and

881
01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:13.679
uses Girls and By signs