It makes you feel like moments battle with your faith, like being someone extremely
logical and even a little cynical. I' m saying that because there'
s a side. I have a thousand dark sides and few people come to
see him now my husband. Definitely yes, I sleep consulates feed a monster
inside me when I' m like a cynic, because yes, it'
s true, there are ugly things in the world, but it' s
not the only perspective. And if I' m with someone who starts telling
me that the world is going to end and what I' m not saying,
yeah, they' re waiting to run I have to have my ranch
and my garden. I start looking for ranches in different applications. Let'
s just say I' m the father and you' re confessing to me.
I can never talk about that. Wow or that I heard from you
or literal I can revoke my licenses. If someone comes and throws poison into
the wine before that of the time of Communion, of the Eucharist, I
have to go and still serve it this way of intention two. My wife
found all her I don' t know her her Iki Gai, her Iki
Gai, in what was praise and music and everything creative and I stayed half
floating. You have to hear me I mean, there wasn' t that.
And if there was one that you Neta said yes, yes, I
will. Yes, yes, or there were two that if they moved my
mat and very very generous, very very in good faith, all very cool,
but every time I got serious with God I said no, I mean
not even something with your dad was not something full with literal God someone came
and told me if you come out of this piqui plant a church. Let
' s say in Guadalajara to Mazotlan Bayart are the three cities around Tupic and
there' s nothing left. Two and a half hours tops. We don
' t pay you the salary for a year on what you' re there
and church plants and every time we record it was no. No, no,
very clear, every time I put on series I flirted him and then
I didn' t. And how you hear the no from God in your
life. We started working and when you started working on something you admired,
start seeing everything bad from day one not like those who don' t work
in the church and then hire them and then start not. It was what
you worked in church and be careful and there were instances in which we did
feel God as a child if we go to such a place and if we
go to such a place, if we leave this and grab this opportunity.
And I remember very much that in the midst of that feeling it became easy
for us to criticize the place where God had put us and practice our pastors
and criticize our collaborators and enter as a position of self- justification and martyr.
And nobody understands me and nobody knows what I' m going through and
how hard it is. And I remember God used Taylor and Robert to and
from those movies. As I change the world, I change the game I
want to do can be a Christian and fast sig oh. That can grab
our imagination and tell us this is how you see it or. If you
' re not a lighter how how chow focus and how about lat lovers,
what do I tell them? Welcome all of you to this podcast, the
number one podcast of all Mexican television, and not just Mexican television, but
international television. We' re on all your intergalami webcasts, it' s
universal inter. That' s a new international, it' s a new
term that I just invented. Duo as international Duoby, international duob, but
more. However, today, this episode is sponsored by our low- inneers
friends. They' re sponsoring the entire seventh season. Run to his profile
that' s showing up here and put already knew nothing else. That'
s what I want you to say I already knew. The low- income
ones won' t know what we prefer, but they' re gonna know
that we know, that you already know, and you' re gonna blow
it up. Today we have a great friend with us on this podcast.
Today is with us and everyone in the studio is going to go crazy,
okay, today is with us, Mike, our friend Yesa, Chi Chi
Chi Hi, yes, how are you? Well, well, well,
well, you' re a man of few words, because we' ve
been intro for two minutes and that intro was short. Our intros are usually
15 minutes to half an hour. And you, you, right. Your
intros are usually from both of us, they' re from both of us.
I guess what' s mine is yours, but the other way around
when I intro it' s shorter. Hey, but to be a man
of few words, you talk a lot on your podcast. That' s
right, how you do it is alone. It' s cathartic for you.
Yeah, I could have a podcast alone,' cause I feel like
I' d go away like this. I' d be very disembodied and
it was very difficult at first, especially when I already had a camera.
You' re not going to talk to a camera before, because I had
my notes and I' m almost reading them, but I already had a
camera here and I didn' t want to be looking at my notes and
it was more. Yeah, I don' t know. It' s
awkward every time how many your podcasts last on average between half an hour and
sixty minutes, more or less. We like the podcast to last an hour
and a half, between an hour and a half two hours. Of course,
that' s not what we like the most. That' s the
time we like the most. An hour, an hour and a half would
be yes, an hour and a half, two hours or so. That
' s what we handle. Jesse There is one of the subjects I'
ve heard the most about and I enjoy listening to you most about is the
concept of a long obedience in the same direction. Yes, very often.
You talk about God telling you to stand on tepic and talk about all the
wonderful things in tepic. What are some of those wonderful things that are in
Tepic, Ahorita, What again, new, something new, something that we
don' t know or something old also maybe we don' t know.
So there' s one there' s a slip you pic ok one maybe,
there' s already two but there' s one that' s in
the park and the hill ok and it' s been since I was a
kid, but it' s been since my mom was a kid. Oh
wow, it' s made of concrete, solid and not to say it
falls straight to the ground, that is, there are people, there are
some gentlemen who put up with caps of like attractor and rent it to three
pesos for the clear trip and you sit on it and fall and the slip
falls the ground, but it' s down to the park. Okay,
so the joke is that you just stick to the floor and slip to the
stairs that' s more or less from here to the wall there, that
is, you stay away because it' s still going down and then you
get to the stairs down the stairs, you don' t get to some
stairs that go up there then, but the joke. If you can get
to it, you see, then they' ve been there since I was
a kid. I remember coming in and it was like I' m not
afraid and you ever got over that laugh. Yeah, I rent three pesos
for the lid and it was the same. It' s three that'
s the lid or three times three three- weight kisses, three weights and
a kiss or a kiss. The gentlemen negotiate yes, hahaha, then there
are three, three pesos the rent of a single aid. It can'
t be then and I imagine it' s a family business, not like
the more than ps of your wife' s mom any, the family grandfather,
the one who had the business and then it was the son and now
the grandson. Someday I' m gonna have him in armadillo and I'
m gonna interview him. Bro or before the most you' ve won in
a day you, which is the craziest thing you' ve ever seen concrete
reading hear and soy, has gotten over that slip. No, you don
' t have to take him, you have to take him. It would
be a good initiation. I think he' s old enough. If you
break an arm right now, it' s like a chido character, like
if you omen, but at the same time you say and God is forging
his exact face. What doesn' t kill you, makes you man exactly,
weak or as it is not, what doesn' t make you weak,
makes you more dead, dead, hey, hey, but speaking of
all that, I mean, obviously you' re not a city like Juárez,
as well as the step. It' s no longer an easy city
to stand in. Not obviously, there are a lot of temptations and a
lot of opportunities that suddenly, the more you move forward in your career,
the more they present themselves to you in front of you and I imagine that
throughout your ministry there has been no lack of anyone who comes and offers you
a very good opportunity for work, a very good opportunity for ministry. But
one thing that I admire and admire over the years is that you have remained
faithful there in your church. How has that process been for you, let
' s say Tepic. I grew up in Sinaloa, ok in mazutlan It
was like the base you are war, and then we went as if to
the ranches not mission family Then I grew up in like St Ignatius and then
a little bit towards Nayarit and Brotherhood and Ranchites like that Brotherhood, Brotherhood,
Brotherhood is where I have more memories. St Ignatius, Brotherhood. I don
' t know It' s a brotherhood. What' s the point of
friends and cofrafra day? Or it' s friendship day. Uh- huh
February 14. Something like this was founded on February 14. Buying a day
makes perfect sense to me. Yes, yes, yes, yes, Saint
Ignatius. The only memory I have is I don' t have two.
A ra that made me pip asleep as we traveled because on Sundays we went
to church. In the morning, Mazotlan and then we went to the ranch.
And then I got on the road and I got all scared of the
gle to the ranch and all my friends were there and I stayed in the
truck. No, yes, I remember if you had, I don'
t know, eight or nine, or it was already big out there,
because yes, it would make you worse. Yes, speaking of peeing I
didn' t know yesterday Marcos Witá was telling us that he until ten i
is public knowledge. He said it. Yeah, until he was sixteen,
he was pip I didn' t know that anymore, and I liked the
joke he made. He made this joke. Then I guess I can repeat
it. I think so. I guess he didn' t say it online,
so they can see it online. It' s online, okay.
I think the worst is over. He' s already told the worst.
I guess so, but he said, he said the joke helps him.
My parents said instead of putting Marcos on me, they would have put Simeon
on me and that made me very quick and everyone in the auditorium laughed a
lot. The same thing happened to you not until I was sixteen at eight,
but I was about eight. Then that and then another time a girl
we were going with was the same age. It wasn' t like my
friend at that age told me to throw a stone over a total child,
no more scaring him and I took an or, it was a rock of
this flight filled small ra, there are stones, there is fart. She
was a rock and I shoved her in and I gave her fair. The
face, just the nose is bleeding then, but brotherhood. Yeah, I
remember more. But St Ignatius, he passed you with a hole. Not
like this, not poor boy to date. You like that, listen to
what Lope tells you what your wool dads told you. It was horrible.
It was horrible. You were a lazy kid. We used to live here
It used to be tremendous. Yeah, but no, no, no,
not so much, no, not so much, but tell us about it.
So some of your best childhood pranks. I wasn' t cruel,
I mean, in one when we first got to Tepic, we planted the
church. I was one of the three children in the church. Not clear
and once the teacher comes in and I begin to sing along with my friends,
Master dog face, teacher the teros home. Yeah, and she started
crying, she ran off and stepped on a hole broke her ankle with smoke.
I' d finish the roll, mastered as a dog. Yeah,
no one can sell it. Something like that, something like that. It
was horrible. Oh my h yes. No, yes, I had several,
and your parents scolded you a lot or they were like passers- by.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, I got scolded.
How I feel that you' re someone who, naturally, as a good
boy right now, you said you were a cruel child. Obviously, since
we know you, you are an extremely noble and sensitive person, but you
have your dark side, your sense of humor, already reveals that you enjoy
certain things. What I' d call them dark cruel. But no,
no, no, no, no irreverent reverence, yes, irreverent. How
you think it' s like having that kind of personality and being in a
church, that is, son of a pastor, wherever it is, it
tends to happen that people with that personality don' t feel like they fit
into one or they' re not like so leaders. I mean, they
don' t find their place, they don' t have it and they
have it, but it' s hard to find their place inside the church,
because in the church everything is like that positive. We try to see
the good side of things and talk life and I don' t know how
you survived your adolescence, your youth. Not everyone who knew me as a
teenager, that is, the way they describe me is bully, although I
don' t know if it was bullying I mean, I had no friends,
I had no one to buy it or rather, it was more lonely
and my sense of cruel humor and whatever it was was sarcasm and yes very
sarcastic and it could be cold and distant. And but that same thing led
me to a very isolated adolescence. I don' t think we have more
or less the same testimony. Yeah, being alone a lot and her,
I mean, for me I ran away in music. I think you'
re more on video. And all that and something happened at seventeen, that
is, when I was seventeen years old, like my first encounter with Christ,
also marrying I mean, I started marrying me and marrying me and passing
on to young people. I realized very quickly that that no more doing.
I don' t know it' s the preacher or being the musician,
it wasn' t being a pastor, of course, and I think all
that stuff like seventeen to twenty fairs definitely changed things. But yes, my
adolescence was dark distant, I mean, and it' s very busy those
personality traits. It' s something that leads to your relationship with God,
that is, it doesn' t make you like moments to battle with your
faith like being someone extremely logical and even a little cynical. I' m
saying that because there' s a side. I have a thousand dark sides
and few people get to see it. Already my wife, definitely yes,
I sleep dark consulate, but I can see extremely herself here, in Berlin,
with him, Linderlin, with at the beginning, and it is something
that at times I have felt like that I am not being held back,
but it is a struggle in like to live with astonishment and with living with
faith and the faith of children. And I don' t know if it
' s something you' ve heard in, because that' s where,
speaking of the Bible, it' s where I shelter the prophets the most,
and that' s why I really like Jonah' s story. The
story of Jonah is a cynical prophet, no yes, and there is an
argument that he is. History as a documentary story is true. I am
more on the side that it is more metaphorical and was a warning story against
prophets, because there were schools of prophets and they were taught things. And
Jonah is like in the almost comedy, prophet of a good prophet. And
Jonah is the story of a cynic. He suspects God, suspects people.
He doesn' t want what' s best for anyone. Just look for
your comfort, just look for this so that the world revolves around Jonah,
not his small branch, which gives him a little shade in what he is
waiting for the city to be destroyed. Yeah, and what makes it a
little comedy isn' t so much fish as things like cows repented. It
' s not like ok Shida. History is fun, but seeing someone like
that works a little bit like a ghost. They' ve heard me talk
about ghosts. I don' t feel like there are people that God puts
in your life to say that. Not like it roars like the scurge that
comes the ghost of the past, present future and the one of the future
teaches you here goes your life. If you go on like this, then
I feel that Jonah works like a ghost to any believer, but especially like
the school of prophets, because prophets, even though there is a lot of
accusation, warning to judgment, there is always a tinge of hope. In
the end. So, if you see right now he' s quoting jeremiah,
you have someone with whom I most identify myself from the prophets the crybaby.
That' s the emotional one, it' s the dramatic one in
many ways, but it did suffer a lot, too. But always with
jeremies you see that turn as if things are wrong. Everything will be lost
the temple, the wall will be destroyed, Jerusalem will fall, it will
be lost We will be exiled seventy years. But then there comes things like
the famous Verse. All of that comes in the context that they' ve
already crushed the city, already destroyed everyone. And then there is a verse
Jeremiah twenty- nine eleven. I' m because I' m too old.
I know the net, I have perxact planet and there' s no
harm in stopping you for a future and hope. Then you see that Jeremiah
was not cynical. Of course, you wouldn' t say that' s
from your favorite verses. Out of context, Out of context, within context.
Yes, I like it because the Bible does not per us the Bible
itself does not allow us to have a positive attitude. And everything' s
fine and everything' s gonna be fine. And it doesn' t let
us have an or, that is, it doesn' t let us go
to any exclato specialism or optimism. There' s always both of them.
I don' t even know if it' s like shooting. Charles Dickens
says it' s the best of times, worst of times, and we
' re always living in those two. It' s not how it depends
on how you got up that day. You' re going to see,
for example, I' m not sure it' s the best and then
I get sick. Ah, it' s the worst. We are always
living between attention, burden and blessing, gold weighs, not then the prophets
have then having the cynical attitude. There he is, I mean, there
he is. I can become very suspicious. I can believe the worst of
people and I have to be. I have to discipline myself not to turn
myself in to that, because I know what it is. I' ve
got people in my life who function like ghosts of themselves from always looking for
the worst in someone in the church or tepid and you don' t keep
those people close or just watch them from a distance, that is, how
close someone gets to a ghost without letting the ghost become yourself, that is.
There are ones that are necessarily close, you don' t understand,
that is, not specifically. I don' t, but some have clear
family members can work as some have as their own parents. Not sure,
of course, then sometimes you' re forced to sit with or see all
the consequences behind a ghost' s cameras. So some of them, some
of them, are still close to my life, people who might be ghosts
in a certain area. I don' t eat but in question myself,
I don' t like being you hurt, I don' t mean being
yes, it' s food for a monster inside me when I' m
cynical, because yes, it' s true, there are ugly things in
the world, but it' s not the only perspective. Totally you,
you' d consider forgiveness. I mean no no, I can identify a
lot with that, like depending on who I' m with, but I
kind of automatically hear negative voices for some reason louder and faster. And if
I' m with someone who starts telling me that the world is going to
end and that I' m not saying yes it' s true, it
' s a lie or that I have to have my ranch and my garden.
I start looking for ranches in different applications and that have basement, that
have ungenerated jack or have yes yes, of course, my orchard, my
vegetables, I, as my own I have even searched that where it is
near a well that is, I can go very quickly to one side very
rough and it affects me very much what I see sometimes in social networks,
of conspiracies and of data. Everything can still affect me a lot, because
I think I' m prone to believe it already and it' s important
as not to resort to ignorance, but not to feed those monsters that we
all have from different legs than we caught. Let' s just say good.
Anyway, hey, you, one day they bought me a ranch.
You know, you know why it is, because the end is coming.
Yeah, yeah, it' s one step ahead. He' s hearing
me, but you, considering someone cynical to some extent, you fight with
guilt, like something that happens to me a lot is that I have a
day full of interactions. I' m someone very extroverted. So, in
every one of my interactions there' s something I rescue for good and there
are several things that make me guilty for bad. Then I take home at
night and I kind of play the tape all my day and say don'
t smudge or I had this interaction with such a person, I said that
to such a person, but I feel that I could have hurt such a
person this way or another you battles with sometimes going back to those thoughts.
And ah ya, I mean, especially in humor, either you joke with
someone or you' re short with someone. Yeah, I mean, then
I wouldn' t have joked like that, I mean, I was kidding,
but I don' t know if they took it. Yeah, they
gnawed or we were joking a lot about someone who wasn' t there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we' re over the net,
or yes, that' s humorous gossip, himself. All that is one
of my vices that I have to be constantly disciplining. And there are people
who can, that is, there are times that you can, that is,
loose, loose your belly and you' re okay and they won'
t judge you and everything' s fine. And but yes, I do
see how it' s distorting, how I see a situation or yes,
the church or politically or whatever, you don' t start talking about something
and it does distort very quickly. And I think I fight a lot with
that, because, like, they' re the subtle sins of all of
us, I don' t think that sometimes we tend to be more permissive
with certain sins and it' s not so bad or it' s just
humor. Or they pass us, they pass us over or even count.
We' re giving ourselves that we' re already falling and I think that
when you' re in a leadership position of shepherding, sometimes you give yourself
more those permissions, because you know things about the lives of a lot of
people and all of a sudden you poop yourself, being the worst of cynics.
I mean, I was with some parish priests, some parents, and
I was fascinated by how to talk to them like to see what their life
is like, what it is like and I said, well, I mean,
there' s nothing to look good on, I mean, it'
s not like there' s no pressure, I mean, we' re
here as friends and open and we' re talking about two different ways,
even though we serve the same God, not but very different from those two
lives And there I' m asking you how much you want things, gentlemen,
but I asked you that and I asked a Monsignor Hey, you'
re gossiping like when you get together, you talk about such a father in
such a place and he said yes, yes, we' re the same
thing today I asked you and who you' re talking about. No,
and I didn' t know anyone from the names. No, but they
have their figures, which are ghosts. I mean, there are people they
allow themselves to talk about now and then and they go and ask forgiveness and
confess. It' s what they have that we' ve lost. The
culture of confession is very good. We need to talk about that a little
bit, because I think it' s a practice we should follow. Yes,
the Bible is very specific. Do not confess your sins to one another
and pray for one another, as in the Protestant attempt not to fall into
religiosity or you know how to do things just by doing them. We have
lost very good practices that have been learned from the issue of confession. So,
to honor him, a little bit. Father Borre is from Monterrey great,
that bato, that father' s sorry is super cool and the truth
is. I was told a lot of things about specific confession where we were
talking, but they take it, they take it very seriously. They take
it almost like I don' t, like we say I' m the
father and you' re confessing to me. I can' t talk about
that anymore Okay, I heard from you or literal They can revoke my license
or how that is. A psychologist doesn' t need very similar. Then
there are certain laws that protect them. So, if someone comes in,
confess if there' s a crime, but that' s the thing.
Nor can they act according to it. Then let' s say you come
and tell me, because I put a bomb in the socket, what happened.
I can' t tell the police. So strong and he told me
In fact, if someone comes and throws poison at the wine before that of
the time of communion, of the Eucharist, I have to go and still
serve it this intensely. Oh two, and I told him I' d
go and I' d drop it, not like he throws it or ups
and he says to me and you know what he says to me. I
would tell you that you are a man of little faith, because for them,
in the literal Eucharist, the host and wine become the body and the
a. I don' t know if everyone believes that, or is or
is broken, and there are certain branches that believe that in ok Ah the
word is gone, but not everyone doesn' t know if the father erases
what grew. But they do take it very seriously, because they see it
as if you are confessing it to God. And they' re the intermission.
Ok then I break with the confidence to be intermediate. You' re
not confessing to me. You' re confessing to God Aha, and I
' m lending you, I' m lending my ear to God. And
then everything about penitentiaries. It' s not, it' s not,
it' s not like you saw your twenty- five Marybirds, as many
Christians would clearly criticize ah they want to pay for it with parents, our
and Marybirds. No more, that' s where they take the time for
me to see you dressed up. Yeah, let' s say, go
talk to your wife and apologize. That' s not your penance and forgiveness.
I mean, I should have gone over what he told me. But
I was surprised. W Juan seriously take it because being pasador and being in
counseling times, it' s not like you come out of it to gossip
it or then clear. But sometimes I feel like pastors, we don'
t take it so seriously that the person wasn' t talking to us.
WOW, they' re confessing to God through us and me getting in the
way of that. Wow, yes, acting on a basis. I don
' t mean yes, I think, as pastors, going to test tell
parents, don' t urinate and then how much drama we wouldn' t
avoid in church. I don' t mean, as a young shepherd,
I don' t know how many times I broke that trust. Yes,
that is, and I am very gracefully ashamed now that I broke that trust
of some young people who came and confessed what was going on. Now or
maybe you don' t tell parents, but you take some measure, not
that since I' m not serving there, because exactly, that' s
very difficult, that' s a very difficult attention to handle, because obviously,
we' re all humans trying to navigate. The responsibilities that touched us
can be very good motivations, of course, of course. But returning a
little bit to the subject of You, taking the step of staying in tepic
indefinitely. We talked, I mean, you just put an inception in me.
I' m going to think about the secret of confession for months,
that is, I was going to think about how many femicides in Mexico have
been confessed and are unsolved or so. It got me figured out and I
think most of them confess after they made it clear. Sure, I mean,
they already confessed. But the police don' t know and, for
example, I told him if there' s a bomb in the socket and
they tell you. He told me, because the penance would be of disarming,
of course, of course there give yourself to the police and of course
they have done that totally. So that' s where you talk to such
a person or go and give yourself up wow is part of there are penitentiaries
movements, like I think it is. I don' t know the way
that was explained to me was very at the discretion of the father and then
yes I' m not going to stay thinking about it like that for a
whole month, but how do you decide. Well, I feel that although
this at first sight is not very glamorous and even in the middle of having
other opportunities, I' m going to be obedient, I' m going
to take the long way. How that process has been for you, as
it was we were shepherding abnormally for eight years and at the end of that
it was very clear the call to leave anort ban to hand it over to
Alvin. But the next step was never clear. And that' s the
physical, and then we make that change. I knew it was Alvin,
I was already half- girlfriending there with aut They weren' t boyfriends yet,
but you see there they were going to end up together and we already
trust them. We knew it was going to do well. But me,
my wife, found all his I don' t know, his iki Gai,
his Ikiggai, in what was praise and music and everything creative, and
I stayed half floating already i fiouman i mean, there was no ah I
have that where I kind of concentrated all my energy, where, I mean,
I had a team of leaders and I had projects and events and Ilesia,
because my dad is still the pastor. Sure, sure, it'
s your people, it' s your team, it' s not God
' s, of course, of course, but you understand you don'
t work with these people according to your culture that I' m building.
And then I started to suspect maybe. God is calling us out, whether
it' s a short period, whether it' s planting another church from
the source, or I don' t know what' s going on,
and right then we got several offers to get out literal people coming in and
come to work for five years or Benny, we paid you so much and
if there was one that you Neta said yes, yes, I' m
going to do yes, yes. There were two that did. They moved
my mat and very very generous, very very in good faith, all very
cool. But every time I got serious with God I said no, I
mean, not even something with your dad. It wasn' t something full
with literal God. Someone came in and told me if you came out of
this pic plant a church. Let' s say in Guadalajara to Mazotlan Bayart.
It is the three cities around Tepic and there are two and a half
hours left to the maximum. We didn' t pay you the salary for
a year in what you' re there and church plants and every time we
recorded it it was no, no, no, very clear, very every
time I put on series and flirted with it and then not and how he
listens not from God. In your life I don' t know, I
don' t know how to describe the green light and the red light.
It' s something you know. I try to explain it as the voice
of God is stronger and more audible. Not because audible talk, I mean,
people are listening to that right now and they' re going to hold
back a clear ten percent. No, I mean, you forget you'
re going, I mean, there have been times my wife tells me how
her whole day went and I didn' t go through a second of attention.
Of course I heard it audibly, but not anymore, no, nothing
happened. No, yeah, that happens a lot. Not a little bit.
Not a little bit alike to seem fair. I said things to myself
and he didn' t listen to me. So it' s so even
as well, but it does load the ballad hears, but it does as
if the no or the yes of God is something, but it invades your
whole body. What' s more, what' s more, your senses
are deeper. Then, the way I described it before was the voice of
God. It' s a voice that makes me cry or makes me feel
a knot in my throat when I heard someone preaching or something was like there
was a moment. But then listening to one of those Ricky Moares, a
professor of Old Testament theology, someone asked him how I know, what God
' s voice is like, and he answered. It is a voice that
always breaks the heart wow, because it touches the tenderest places in it.
Then I said ah it' s prettier than I' m going to cry,
it' s deeper. So, then you' re crying here and
now you' re followed by movies not ok, but for example, the
night in praise, yes you' re crying, yes, my son was
lasting and how it doesn' t move you, how it doesn' t
move you. And then, in good spirits, when you meet, I
know he' s God. When I feel that shit, it grabs me
as a surprise to each other, because every time I presented it I felt
more that, that feeling with him stay in tepic ok he doesn' t
go out and wow and so it was like three years or so fighting with
being between those two. And then every time there was a nicer offer.
And then ah is that God said that not for this truth was this was
this and every time it was no and I was going to Hilson' s
conference in Australia. Or while I was already there, one of the shepherds
comes and greets several of us and when he greets us, he shakes our
hands at this and when he sees me, he shakes my hand, shakes
my hand. It makes me one of those things like it cut you off.
Yeah, I mean, they scan me completely and I feel like I
know I' m fat, but no more. I have oh, no
doubt, don' t see the girls. I' m gonna take a
bath and I' m up the beach. What a what. It was
very uncomfortable how he looked at me, but literal to my feet and it
was like that and I felt very uncomfortable. And but whatever, I was
in Sidney and I felt at Disney Landia rhan no and spend three days being
there and every day and I kept seeing that pastor and every time I turned
around. He applied one of those to me like he was already seeing me
and then he looked at me not seeing you. I saw me and it
' s cool with this vato. He keeps looking at me very uncomfortable last
day. You' re already done so I turn to see you hey,
but it' s weird that carl Lines saw you so much mother for ros.
That would be a good story. I' ll shut up. I
was going to say the last day I' m in praise and the place
is full, okay, pretty, it' s all over and it didn
' t happen like that, but I do remember as if there' s
praise, everything that gives and then as if all the noise just went away
like that and I mean, like a voice here not anymore why you'
re mad at me. Oh wow, and as a hall guy I start
arguing no and no more I said how I' m going to be mad
at you and I' ve been paid off for myself, of course I
' m enjoying it here, I mean, I' m in Disneyland for
Christians are listening to my favorite preachers. That' s how he sees me.
It' s all right, it doesn' t stop seeing me,
but like what, cool as not, I' m angry, how yaya
and I asked how genuinely why, why and weird to have a conversation with
God like that, of course, I don' t know much, yes,
it sounds very like, but I didn' t really know why.
And no more I said this gentleman why. And again so very strong,
because I have you in tepic uy now for three days, you are with
pastors of the best places in the world that where you shepherde oringe Cowney,
not so Chaney, san diego. Yeah. I' m in Waver in
Amsterdam and I' m in it. Yeah, I mean, in the
most prat places and it' s like whits and how they asked me where
this is, like you pic Mexico, we go like South America, not
for everyone, in South America, for everyone. There was mo you said
in Mexico, yes, and then they asked ah there with Steven in Monterro
Ponterrey. Then I said yes. I told them that I was this tell
me it' s not you already said it no where Mexico has a little
belly. Yeah, yeah, like there' s sort of Guadalajara down there.
Sob at that conference, well, in one of those ones they asked
us how things are going in Monterrey, this chitos and our tors Brian did,
we asked how we are going in Monterrey, how we are going and
I super well, thank you for trusting us the Church. Let' s
go, let' s go next. I used to take chidos credits there.
Anyway, then that shame had passed. Now who knows how many times
during those three days it stings you, oh okay, they' re not
leaving anymore. And then, I kind of remembered that shame and yes,
I realized it brought some bitterness that I' m in Tepique. Already then
I repent or apologize and if all chido ends the conference. I' m
going to a little room and there' s all the shepherds all day saying
goodbye. We' re leaving next day and the pastor who stared at me,
comes up and says hey, let' s talk bad And I already
do and he tells me I' ve already remembered or where truth, not
you forgiveness can be here in the OVI and he tells me not to sit
and he tells me no. I know if you noticed that the first day
when I greeted you, I looked down at you and me as good Mexa,
you didn' t do that no, not little. He says yes,
and because he' s looking at you a lot I or this day
he got really weird and then he doesn' t tell me that the first
day I saw you we were in a room I' m waving and I
' m laughing life that you were barefoot. Then go back and see your
feet and you weren' t barefoot. But I looked up at you,
so I knew it was God' s and for the three days I'
ve been praying for you wow asking God what he wanted to say to you.
And he says and now in praise. At that time it was the
same moment that God was speaking to me. He says I had a vision
of you and I' m telling him and I can tell you. She
did, and she tells me you were walking along like sand, like the
beach or whatever, and there were some tracks and you were trying to jump
at every print and she says but that God was called where there were no
footprints and you' re really scared, but but I was cheering you up
and you were finally taking a step into those tracks and she says I don
' t know if that makes sense. And I ask you, then,
is like our motto of the Churches. We plant churches where no one wants
to, where no one can, and it' s like he' s
got that guy. And there I am crying and then he told me.
I' ve told myself another more cheesy part of that and then those footprints
weren' t going alone Jesus always went with you kind of aunt' s
picture not in your house, he doesn' t walk with but that made
a lot of sense to regret myself. I came back from Australia. Oh,
the eye had to go there for God to talk to you about something
like that, but I came back and it was like there' s no
choice or God didn' t communicate it with your dad. Yeah, yeah,
I came back and that' s the way I described it and it
sounds really weird, but it was basically like a I' m as committed
to you as I am to my wife, I mean, guy I marry
my dad, but that sounds like not thin to what they give me the
cancellation, but crazy my dad, my say and a hundred percent. I
mean, we' re called here blah blah and we' re already a
next year trip that I made when you came from Guadalajara driving steps like above
a hill and you can already see them pic because it falls in a valley.
And it was the first time I went up the hill and I felt
I was home. Then something began to do God my heart. I had
the grace to be there and in full covid It was when I most thanked
God that it is in a small city where literal they have five cops to
handle everything. Then they couldn' t restrict us as much as in big
cities. I mean, plenty of food, water, whatever. And it
was like I wanted to go to cities where there' s not enough for
those who are there and I don' t know there was a complete twist.
The valleys tend to be very fruitful places, either, naturally, to
that area is green, green, green, or green, that is,
Husson states is like salts of the desert, from Jaliscoote directly to a green
valley and between mountain jungle. All that, then I don' t know
was we caught him a new love. I miss you so much. How
God gives you a love, for the ecosystem in which you develop and I
have love for the desert. Yeah, and when I watch movies like that
star Wars, where he comes in the desert, he gives me something.
There are pounds that move in my heart, because it' s part of
my story. I imagine it' s the same for you as it is
for that valley, anything that reminds you. That' s like God.
If he calls you or obviously he calls you first, but in moments and
seasons if he calls you people and if they call you places, it'
s already very nice. Something happened to us as without but the reverse in
the sense that when they leave us the whole movement of a heart here Miami,
we start to work and when he starts to work on something you admired,
he starts to see everything bad from day one not like those who don
' t work in the Church and then they hire them and then they start
to not be what you work in the Church and be careful, but better
not do it, but he didn' t do it. It' s
a choice. Or it has to be a call. It' s got
to be a call. But we began to battle, that is, to
find joy and taste in that, what God was calling us at the time
and there were instances in which we did feel God as a son. And
if we go to such a place, if we go to such a place,
if we leave this and grab this opportunity and I remember very much that
in the midst of that feeling it became easy for us to criticize the place
where God had made us practice our pastors, criticize our collaborators and enter as
a position of self- justification and martyr. And nobody understands me and nobody
knows what I' m going through and how hard it is. And I
remember that God used Taylor and Robert to encourage us to talk to our pastor,
that is, that God spoke to us so much in one of the
messages that they gave at a conference that we went to, that it was
obvious you had to stand under Mark and Patti not and we never had.
And I remember I went to a cafe with my father- in- law
and I said, Mira, these are my dreams. This is the visions
we have, the desire we have to do those things, but we don
' t want to do anything without it being the right time and without you
supporting it. Then I told him for an indefinite time. We sow under
your leadership and whatever you want us to do, that' s what we
' re going to do And obviously, it was a very nice time.
It was a very iconic moment in my relationship with my pastor, with my
father- in- law. But the crazy thing is, it' s
been a couple of years and my father- in- law is releasing us,
so to speak. He tells us to plant a church that, though,
will have the same name. I don' t want him to operate
like a campus. I want you to operate like a church already and I
think you are the pastors and that h although it is like the opposite,
it is still difficult. If it wasn' t too hard. It was
in the most complex time, complex to do so, because it was still
half a pandemic. We were in a financial recession, in the terrible three,
so to speak, then there was no finance, they couldn' t
cross. That cheered up the border, that was part of it. It
was locked. There were no border crossings other than the Espro citizens were very
few. So, yeah, I think it was like a push, but
at the level of strategy, it was really bad. Wait a minute,
I was pregnant. Soon so posited our sociela were closing and we were planting
in that s and in the United States, that there were so many restrictions,
that was, we had to register and covermouths and because there were only
a certain type of people, a certain number of people that could fit.
The point is that it was, in other words, humanly speaking the most
difficult moment to do so already. But today we see it as being like
a hundred percent God coordinating everything, because I think we wouldn' t have,
no, no, we wouldn' t have taken that responsibility of planting
a clear church would have been more of a campus style that has nothing wrong
with it. But I genuinely believe that God wanted us to live it that
way and has done us a lot, a lot of good, if it
has been very difficult, it has been complicated, but also as it has
strengthened our faith and hope. And I think in complicated times, what goes
easier is hope. We' re sorry. Oh, well, I'
ve been so long sowing so much time investing and I don' t see
the fruit. What are some of the things that help you be patient in
the midst of your waiting and maybe some of those practices. Look by mentioning
Taylor, I mean, Taylor has also been a huge influence on my life,
I mean, I see him as an older brother and talking about the
opposite of ghosts a northern star. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no more
like his or her I don' t know if he has a message,
like a preaching about ISAAC, but how he has talked about ISAAC, about
being an ISAAC one that no more like passing the staph, but like my
father' s ok, my children, how that simple role works for me
and seeing it in his life has managed me like a lot then one can
be certain friendships, not certain people who are at best in the same way
you feel. That call is so essential. Sometimes we think of friends who
push us forward, because you know we need those who tell us not all
right where you are and who don' t push you. So they don
' t push you. And I think taylo you' re very much that
friend. I sometimes fight with him because I come with a nuisance or with
already I want to change the world of a love and tailor. Don'
t do it sit down and it gives me a lot of courage Yeah,
I mean, Taylor' s been a big influence on that, and I
' m holding on to it, too. I mean. One of the
messages that I don' t know the most about is that there are certain
sermons that beat you in a lecture to Andrés Speaker preaching don' t pass
the message to generations, all working at the same time that image of him,
his father and children, running together. I always think about that with
the Church. So, last, lately, people have asked me ay you
' re already taking the Church t Wow, when there' s going to
be or whatever it is is like what it is for either, we work
so well together and I know that' s so weird why ruin that.
Yes, then I have been greatly ministered to by that relationship between Taylor and
Robert A, that preaching of Andrew and I don' t know. Sometimes
it' s words, sometimes it' s a friendship, sometimes it'
s the circumstance itself. But really what it falls to is those times alone
with God, where you don' t stay that you' re angry with
me. I have this for you blah blah, blah and one more gives
like a perspective, because returning to the prophets and what I think healed many
prophets of cynicism was the imagination that had baptized imaginations, divine salvations, I
don' t know, but they could imagine a future and that agreed with
God' s plan. And sometimes the only imagination we' re acquiring is
from The Hollywood Gray. Then I remember seeing a many bowl. Yeah,
because it comes out b then, but I remember watching a many bowl or
the social network of the Facebook story and I get out of those movies.
Since I want to change the world, I want to change the game.
I want to do cru can be a century oh Christian and fast. That
can grab our imagination and tell us that' s how you live or if
you' re not a lighter. But then if you let God give you
the imagination, not Hollywood, sometimes ministerial success, or all that looks very
different altogether. So I' m not like ah, if I wasn'
t at the fountain with my dad in Tepich, I' d be all
screwed up. I don' t know that God would be backing everything up,
but you also never know what it would be clear if you had taken
that step, if you had gone out to say, because at the same
time I think even if you were wrong, let' s say and listen.
No. No, no, no, no, and you do it
anyway. It' s not like the curse' s gonna rain on you.
Sure, God bless you where you go, but for some reason he
' s guiding you and all those guides. It' s not for you
to be the Savior of the world, to be a wow or to be
written in history books or to lead a great movement. Sometimes it' s
just God leads you left to right, left to right so you can become
the person you were created, clear from your mother' s womb. I
mean, from there God put in plan a purpose formed someone, but we
started to follow those other things and we' re not the ones we were
designed to do. And Jesus does not honor our false. I, of
course, do say I don' t know you that' s not who
I believe, God won' t honor us playing with our ego that ah
no. If you' re Daniel, you understand me, I mean,
you' re not, yeah, Jaguar is Leo Square and but it'
s not Daniel Kimico, that is, beyond anything else. This is not,
then, those decisions. If we listen to God, it' s
like removing layers or forming, reforming, what life has distorted has covered the
rust we bring so we can reach the true. I in Christ, and
that I love because I think the Church is going through a very good time
in the sense of learning as voices to make genuine already and I think that
the younger people, that is, I see your son who has just turned
ten years old already and I don' t see him carrying many of the
pressures and burdens that sometimes a son of a pastor, perhaps like you and
me, not by our parents, but by the circumstances in which we grew
up, the ecclesiastical time in which we grew up including you. Obviously,
it was our turn to live, not that I see it and I greet
it and tell him how it went and he told me that he went to
target and that he bought a head from a toy that was not yet for
sale anywhere else. And for me it' s ke chio. I can
have a genuine conversation with you and every time, that is, when I
chat with Alvin and when I chat with Jared or with a little younger Leaders,
I realize that we are no longer in the same one that when maybe
you and I started, that you are little bigger than me. But he
' s there, he' s there, he' s there, he
' s there? There, it' s like, give your best conversation,
give your best theme on the table or give your best sermon. One
thing I' ve enjoyed a lot at this conference is that I feel like
we' re a lot of compas being ourselves and we don' t have
that feeling like we' re looking and I think you wanted to say something.
Yeah, I remember a lot that when I was fresh, when I
' m talking, you used the line a long time ago like it'
s all chess, like life is chess. That' s what he taught
me. I know, I know, no, no man. It'
s something that, thank God you learned in a sense, I think it
' s good to have strategy, not bad, to have vision, or
it' s bad, but I was very frustrated like what the pieces are
people or what the pieces are. I mean, of course chess. And
thank God we' ve been learning because I didn' t plan anything and
he planned everything and it was yes, I could look super rude because I
didn' t kind of feel like it wasn' t policy for me to
let me say hello to such, but of course not anymore. I mean,
anyway, uh, I had a question because, right now, you
were talking about how to be directed with God' s voice, maybe to
places that aren' t so obvious or that aren' t what you wanted.
But how to do it when maybe for someone who' s listening,
right now, how to do it when you don' t know how to
hear God' s voice, I mean, you' re maybe in a
dilemma, you' re in that moment where you' re realizing it.
Maybe I haven' t been faithful to what God created me to do,
but I don' t know what God wants me to do, like some
practices that have helped you, or what you do when there' s no
clear path to take in your life. For example, right now you say,
I don' t know what the next step is, what you keep
doing so you don' t lose track. Yeah, I' ll explain.
It' s for someone who I' ve never heard the voice of
God, someone who hears I don' t know, or someone who spits
at him once because sometimes it happens where out of nowhere is the dark night
of the soul, not where ah everything was this way and then out of
nowhere where it is. God is absent, okay, I mean, he
' s hidden, you don' t have that side. I think they
' re both very good at playing. I mean, maybe there are people
who say no. I' m not sure, I' m not sure.
Yes, actually, God has ever spoken to me. I mean,
we' re in the age of questioning and I think it' s very
valid. That question of many people, because speaking of first those who have
never heard, is watching a documentary a few years ago, since I don
' t know most likely it was YouTube, YouTube video where I' m
going from inspiration. They are not talking about dogs and how dogs could develop
a vocabulary, not that they spoke, but they understood more or less five
hundred words. Pull and it sounds like a lot until you realize that five
hundred words are like three minutes talking, that' s three minutes of podcast
Wow. I mean, it' s not much, it' s not
a lot of words, but there' s something. Yeah, don'
t pee there Yeah, well, with our new dog, we' re
showing him that Nack TNX Neck Nack meals and the dog that came out and
fell is right. I never thought of our pronte to see you fall,
I mean, there' s an age you don' t fall for,
and I think we' re past that age, you don' t fall
for us anymore, and you' re fried for a week, you'
re smoke. I still hurt the or or never imagined seeing you fall for
wanting to save a dog, for not stepping on it was like bato.
You' re not that kind of person you' ve become. But good,
but well changed tea not a dog. Grab about five hundred words to
Razis. Don' t do it, pee, don' t get out.
He went to see dogs followed much more by tone than by words.
Then you can grab your dog, it' s telling him I don'
t know it' s hate. You' re a fool, the ugliest
thing in the world. I' m gonna kill you and what the dog
is gonna be. Let' s go see them and tell them I love
you True, here' s a vain arm. They didn' t follow
much more by tone. And when I heard that, I think that'
s how our divine language is. We are dogs and it makes sense because
in the capacity that we have to actually hear that we really shit what God
is talking about, that is, if I grab a yes, a no,
a no. It' s peeing there whatever it is, no,
but I' m more guided by the tone of God' s voice.
Then I think a lot of people listen to God, but they don'
t know it anymore. Then I remember. I remember a conversation I had
with my dad I felt like God was telling me something. Then I'
m going to ask him he' s distracted at the compo and I'
ll explain. I think God is telling me that, this and this and
no more like turning around and saying yes, that sounds like God and it
went on and I left and I just kept that sentence. It sounds like
God and then I came back and told him what you mean it sounds like
God. I said that. My dad was in his tough, because what
does that mean and you say I don' t know. So I was,
I was on a flight next day and on the plane I said ok
what the voice of God sounds like. And I wrote some points about what
the voice sounds like to God. But the main one is tenderness. There
is a tender, tender, gentle voice that is not the same. It
can' t be tender and screaming, that is. I remember my son.
Once he came out of the house and I came out all ogre,
don' t go out to the house and he started to cry and his
lip shrunk And now but what he did immediately after he gave me the treading
down because he understood at the same time that although they know problems and whatever
I was not a threat, there is still a tenderness clear there, not
clear. Then for someone who has never heard God' s voice, I
would encourage you what sounds tender, what was tenderness. I don' t
know. That' s one that helps and I also feel that God is
playful with one and then he always comes is another. It' s very
different than it doesn' t sound like what I' d think, so
those stress helps the dark night of the soul and I feel like I was
talking about it a lot with people, because I feel like covid was I
don' t know about my life. I don' t remember how this
says it is Loues, but in his book on mourning he talks about faith
as a rope and how we sometimes have our rope to which we cling.
But then things come so heavy in life that that no longer endures wow and
you need to replace that noose with a stronger, firmer, more robust noose.
And then in our faith, in our walk with God, comes at
different times where God challenges us not the faith you had at seventeen, at
four, at thirty, at forty. Don' t pull, right now,
it' s not going to help you through this difficult time and I
mean, we' re not all going through something super tragic of young people,
that is, if we have our stuff, the worst thing that ever
happened to you? The worst thing that ever happened to you? Of course
not, I mean if you got a rim, okay? That' s
the worst thing that ever happened to you? And you' re gonna learn
through that, but things like a global pandemic. We' re close to
World War Three, we' re being shepherds we loved. It was a
chara. I get my ranch when it' s different, a little difficult.
Cree is never going to drop a nuclear bomb, or maybe already dropped
and didn' t know long ago. We' re living in a simulation.
We' re a simulation. Listen no, but I love that which
you say, because we must learn to fix all our trust, not in
our abilities and not in the abilities of the people around us, but full
in God and in trying to minimize, try to listen to his voice.
Nothing will sustain us in difficult times more than his voice and something that has
been haunting my mind and telling you about it a long time ago. I
don' t mean, I feel like to a certain extent. We have
the pastors and Christian figures we believe we deserve. And I see in the
Old Testament the people of Israel telling the prophet Samuel that you know this about
you as a prophet, telling us what God is saying as it is no
longer working. Your kids are a mess. You know we need kings now.
Better, let us have kings like other nations, like other countries.
No. And in the end, God grants them the request, but he
gives them a lot of warnings. He says if you' re going to
want a king, you' re going to have to be his slave,
your daughters, they' re going to be his maids, you' re
going to have to give him a portion of all your crops, you'
re going to have to give them your money. And though your king be
evil, for there were obviously kings as out, that is, give me
favor, that is, hereb and jessanel Solomon, Solomon, Salmon, all
the world, and Solomon, wise. He' s the worst of all.
I' m the antonym of Jesus. I would throw a lot of
dirt in there because of his shenanigans that were suddenly thrown out. But yes,
Solomon was very holy went very well. He destroyed the temple to the
God who rescued them from slavery with slave labor. Yes, it is that
we end up becoming what we swear exterminated human wisdom. But I love that
God tells you all the characters in the Bible like any clear human are a
clear mix. But Solomon really was. He left and I love what God
says to him, even though they cry out to me because of those kings.
I' m not going to do anything and I feel like right now.
We are living a season in which, instead of leaders and pastors and
spiritual parents and people who will honestly live lives in anonymity, they will live
lives not flashis, not much called. We want to have messianic figures,
pastors and or shepherds influence shepherds. Then we' re looking for kings.
When God wants to give us examples and to give us tender examples, humble
examples. And I think that' s why I said, I think there
' s a hope for the future. And I see every time the new
generations of leaders getting carried away by the voice of God, being comfortable in
their own skin, being comfortable with their own voice, not wanting to panic
or not pretending to be something they are not. And it encourages me,
it encourages me, I believe that when, when I don' t know,
it seems that the Church is reeling because of I don' t know,
a pandemic, so many pastors falling, etcetera. Actually, God is
reforming her and something very good is on the way. Not anymore, to
see if it' s my only vibe I' ve been talking to Andres
the other day about whether that' s some kind of reform, because it
' s getting really fast, that is, the amount of revelations. How
bad are the things that can be one, that is to say, it
' s stuck the song, yes, and who knows if it' s
over already. No, I don' t think so. So it'
s not that much of that revelation. So the apocalyptic word is revelation in
English, not revelation. Yeah, so it' s an apocalyptic time and
every time there was an apocalyptic season. Yes, it was because God is
reforming something It is in the history of the Church. You see it in
the Bible, ah but in the history of the Church, in the last
two thousand years, every time there was one like that a veil was removed,
one looks at the disaster of the Pope' s cle of the Holy
Inquisition And yes, I mean, the verses taken out of context, the
words of Jesus red letters were taken out of context to make the Holy Inquisition,
that is, yes, many, many evils that the Church has carried
out And every time it was revealed, and everyone, like, shocked,
one is fine, then there was some kind of reform and I don'
t know how long it lasts. It would be nice to see how long
the reforms last. No, I think the encouragement that a decade doesn'
t know if it' s repeated, or maybe it' s a hundred
years long, but there are certain reforms that do, I don' t
know, I don' t know how long this is going to last,
what it feels like is very weird. It' s hard to categorize something
while it' s happening. You don' t have the whole picture,
but I have felt like something in my spirit, like it' s a
time of change and to see where it leads to me Well, I don
' t think there' s a lot of good to me too, there
' s a lot to rescue from this and I think that something we'
re also experiencing in the midst of this reform is a freedom to talk about
things that aren' t usually talked about. I think for many years the
phrase became fashionable. The Church hurt me. But the Church didn' t
hurt you. You got hurt by a person who has a first name and
a last name, and sometimes I think it' s obviously worth it with
a healthy heart and having forgiven saying that first name and that last name.
And obviously, the Bible is very clear. Whoever believes he is firm,
be careful not to fall and do not say this from a position of us
or us. I mean, tomorrow I fall and you can come in,
you can come in tomorrow. Any one of us can scholarship in an atrocious
way and hurt a lot of people. Many of us have hurt people and
we' re part of their story, I mean, we' re somebody
' s ghost I sang to a woman teacher and broke her ankle on the
same day. Maybe that was the worst day of his life. I mean,
then he' s like me to me. Yeah, I think who
' s different. A season is approaching where Wok is already waning a lot
and we are learning according to the Bible. So, suddenly say what we
disagree with and not be afraid to say it in public. I don'
t think that' s that hopeful. I' m excited. I do,
I pray to God that this reform does not last a hundred years.
I' m asking you to last for a few years, but yes,
yes. It tastes good if it lasts as long as it lasts. That
' s part of long obedience. In the same direction, long hope is
also required. Yes, one of the most interesting stories of jeremiah is just
when Babylon is already invading. The cousin of jeremías arrives and tells him listen
you buy me the land is that no one buys it from me, because
it is not inappropriate. It' s not going to do any good on
this ground and you know what it does. Jeremiah, he buys it from
the land, a land he will never enjoy, he will never be able
to harvest or build on that land. But it does take the contract,
it seals it does two everything to be able to all in faith and the
reason you do it because one day again this land is going to be harvested
or, it' s going to build a house. And then, too.
And Jeremiah would never enjoy that. He knew that' s going to
at least seventy years. I' m not going to see it anymore,
but I' m going to invest in it for future generations and to give
hope to those who are here now I decided hard a hundred years and Durams
seventy years, if we' re going through some kind of exile that you
don' t stain, that is, the world isn' t over.
For the Israelites at that time the world was finished, that is, their
religion, their culture, everything, and they had to survive in Babylon.
And then, if you had him, I' d laugh. Yesterday was
the presidential debate of viden against Trump and they said some things on social networks,
they said it can' t be. I' m seeing the final
season and Americau, literally, the country, as we know it, is
running out. But if you had to put a title on the skull ranch,
if you had to put a title on this season of ecclesiastical reform,
how would you put it, I don' t know, but an interesting
fact that year, two thousand twenty- four half of the countries went through
elections or they' re going to pass, that is, from all over
the world. The world is already changing artificial intelligence that will be inside our
iphones. That' s more interesting, I mean, Tp TE included with
how many fredcas you' ve prepared with uha chips. I can' t
tell you how many. We have to ask Chatchifity how you' d put
this season. I think it' s over, I mean. I believe
this season is called the end of the empire of pastors who believe themselves kings.
That' s so much for your world. I think it' s
going to be over somehow, I don' t mean, I think it
' s going to be a very focused season in small communities of discipleship.
Yeah, but the ego never ends, I mean, it' s just
going to take a different clear form. No, I mean, they used
to be suits. Now they' re gin Ron Sarris and who knows what
it' s going to be tomorrow. Yeah, there' s always a
way. I do the pront how he sends it. Put on you don
' t have the read to see you have it seeing recent world events to
see no. No. Not you you you? No. It' s
carrying according to how we see the world changing so much. There it seems
to be a reform of the Church. Also how you' d put that
as a title. If this were a film, you could call it the
new reform by transforming the Church in modern times. What happens to you approach
according to the world events of the Church. What would it be called this
season if it were a TV series microphone could be called crisis and rebirth the
Church in the 21st century What do you think? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
rebirth. More or less, give me a better understanding what do you
think? The whole transition the Church in the contemporary world is very politically correct.
Yeah, of course chat Jepeta wasn' t going to put it.
It' s very politically cut. I mean, it' s Gifit chat.
It works very well for information, but not for creativity. Yeah,
no, that' s just what we' re gonna talk about right now
in a workshop right now, but what are songs. Cha didn' t
refuse me maybe you as words that maybe Luis, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, but he doesn' t almost lack his soul. Yeah,
I didn' t say I saw like there were three types of people and
he said it Kevinero. But that goes to those who don' t,
not dreamers, machines and creators. And we must be creators. No,
but dreamers are here. If you have great ideas, but without any discipline
or programming, then you never get to anything. I mean, the machines.
They' re those who have all the programming, but they don'
t have ideas and they just run the technology. She is and she is.
But we are called to be creators, like God, who have discipline,
but we also propose and create, we have new ideas and we dream
is like the goal. Well, anyway, she' s got her limitations
there, too, the net one. I could keep talking to Jessia all
afternoon, but you have to be in a workshop in five minutes. You
' ve got me on with that. We said good- bye. Thank
you for listening to this episode of uncle. Thanks to the podcast. You
can find it already on all your social networks. His podcast is showing up
here on the screen. We love you and see you in the next episode.
Take care bye bye, buy a ranch