Superintendent Tyson Bennett of Sherman Independent School District in Texas resigned after controversial removal and
reinstatement of a transgender student in a high school production of Oklahoma sparked national outrage.
The school board accepted Bennett's transignation followed a I'm sorry, I can't start
over again. I I just could not read. I was just like,
wait, greading. It's fundamental, and obviously I completely forgot how to do
it. Okay, but yeah, if we can see it one more time,
I would appreciate it. I forgot to bring crew back in, so
sorry, I was talking and you could near me. All right, well
that's cool. Okay, let me make this a little bit bigger so I
can actually see what the fuck I'm saying. Okay, very good, all
right, you're ready. Yeah, let's go ahead, all right. In
five or Superintendent Tyson Bennett of Sherman Independent School in Texas resigned after controversial removal
and reinstatement of a transgender student in a high school production of Oklahoma sparked outrage
nationally. The school board accepted Bennett's resignation following a closed session and appointed Thomas
O'Neill as interim superintendent. The controversy began in March when Max high Tower,
a transgender student, was barred from playing a role that did not match his
sex. Have signed. Ever, after significant backlash, the school reversed this
decision, reinstating the original cast and script. Max's father, Philip Hie Tower,
praised the board for advocating for all students, hoping it marks a shift
towards inclusivity and standing against discrimination. The story is from NBC News by Joe
Jakaba on May two, twenty twenty four. So, Senny, I'm coming
to you. I'm wondering, what impact do you think student the superintendent is
Tyson Beckford's. I'm sorry, Tyson Bennett. Tyson Beckford is a hot model.
Not to be construe with Tyson Bennett, but his resignation will have on
Sherman's Independent school district and it's handling of issues related to trans understood. I
don't know. I don't know this state enough to be able to have a
qualified opinion, but I would. Well, there's Texas, so I'll just
keep that in mind. Yeah, yeah, it's it's I don't think it
will have a huge impact, maybe specifically in the school for a few years.
But the political climate is so so hard on transfiople right now. I
saw a video of Pete Boody Jedge recently and he was talking about how the
far right equates being different as an adult subject, how the simple fact that
those people exist is an adult subject, when when it's simply not, it's
just people existing, and it's I don't see how it can get better.
Uh when when when I see the situation right now, how polarized the the
US is, because it feels like on one side, the purpose is just
to be mean to everyone. And I don't know how you can come back
from that, from that, that kind of mentality of wanting to trigger other
people just because you you like it and it just fits you. I just
don't know how you can come back from that end. And so I don't
think one guy being fired for that is going to change much. Uh.
It's going to change a hell for the life of this teenager, that's for
sure, in a good way. But other than that, I don't think
it will help much. You know, you said something very interesting when you
talked about how basically it's become a polarized issue just to mention a people exist,
and I and I think about how, especially on the right, you
have such outcries about people who happen to be not white, not cis gender,
not I mean that are that are cis gender, that are has weosexual,
and how this is supposed to be the norm, but any person who
happens to be outside of that particular uh group is considered Oh, well,
you're you're being you're being woke, right, just because you mentioned that these
people exist and and it's and it's very and I don't know how we come
back from that either. Kelly, what what are your thoughts from it's the
only old white guy cis male on this panel. I have to say,
I am qualified to say this panel is pretty goddamn woke. Okay, okay,
okay, that's fine. I mean, like, listen, I don't
necessarily have an issue with using the term woke. I've used it for a
long time before it became polarized. Uh. Woke just really just meant,
you know, when I used to use it back in the day, that
you know, you just need to be aware of the systems that are around
you and how they can affect you. If you happen to not be white
or a man or both or anything of that particular effect, right and and
like right now, I just see when we're having these particular discourses concerning like
especially trans people, that you know, just like giving them a place to
say, I exist, I am here, I am human, and I
want to live my life and participate in life and community around me. That's
the polarizing issue, and it makes it makes no sense to me. But
you know, but Kelly, since you mentioned wokeness, this article actually mentions
the school board, you know, held a special meeting last week to discuss
terminating Bennett, but then take any action. Yeah, they didn't. Yeah,
so what factors might have influenced the boards decision to even accept his resignation?
That particularly the weekend, you know what, I was wondering why they
didn't vote and to get rid of them, and that I found it really
interesting. And then then it made me wonder what it was that talked him
into resigning. And I have a feeling they probably made some kind of backroom
deal. You just resign and you go walk away from this without the bad
we had to fire you thing hanging over you for the rest of your career.
And I'm pretty sure that that had something to do with it, But
I want to know. And this is not something again. You know,
you start to read these stories, you want to know more, you start
doing some research on them, and you can't get the answers to some of
the questions. And I want to know, was Bennett responsible for getting this
kid kicked off the play? Was it somebody at the school? Was it
the principal? Who was it exactly? Because we don't actually know, and
I think that person is you should be the one we're talking about here.
And if it was Bennett, that's fine, But I want to know that
it was Bennett. And I can't see like somebody on the school supervisor,
on the board of supervisors calling up the school to complain about one kid.
That just doesn't I mean, it could have happened, but it doesn't seem
probable to me at all. It seems to me that there was probably somebody
at the school or somebody affiliated with the school that made that decision. Well,
well, let me ask you, do you think that Bennett was just
like since you brought it up, do you think he was just like fall
guy? He could he could well have been. I don't know that he
was because he may well have made been made the decision, but there is
a really good chance that, yeah, we have to do something, and
maybe that's why they made that back room deal to let him walk away without
being fired. You know, we understand that it's not you who made this
decision, but we have to take some kind of action and somebody has to
go. And you were the where the bucks stops last at that school,
and so it's got to you, you know, And I could I could
see that happening. I don't know if he was actually the decision maker or
if he was just a scapegoat. I could see it going either way.
And that's why it's been a really bad week for getting answers to questions that
were that were recovering because I've been trying to do some deep dives and I
just can't get some of the details I want. So, oh my goodness,
you know what, I just want to sit to all news outlets.
How dare you keep information away from Kelly for me being able to do deep
dives? Yes, we need these things. This is why we pay Kelly
the big bucks. But you know, but you mentioned something concerning like you
give me a raise? Yeah, I know, right, I'll talk to
the powers to be about giving you a raise once I give me a raise,
and everybody else on the panel. But you know, I think that
one of the things that the article mentioned, because I talked about it earlier,
is that there was a national outcry of why on how like egregious removing
Max High Tower was from this production And and and basically I'm I'm thinking that
since there was a natural outcry, there was a lot of pressure to do
something right. Yeah, And since like it was a natural outcry to do
something, you know, sometimes that that just means that we pick a guy,
and you're the visible guy, so you know, you gotta go or
you know, or if you make your particular decision, then maybe it's not
that bad. But you know, if I want to ask you, how
do you think public pressure and media attention influenced the school eventually reversal of his
decision. Well, I think that without public and external pressure nothing would have
changed at all. The truth is, in a small rural area like Sherman,
Texas, I would say that, And I do think the principal is
likely played a role in it beforehand. If not, he's an incompetent principle
because you should know what's going on in the school. So presuming that he
had a certain level of culpability there, I would say that he thought it
was a diamond does a decision. I don't think he thought it was controversial,
and I think in the local area is completely correct. I think that
they would not have cared. It's only because there was external pressure and because
it got the publicity that it did that we have the results we have because
once again, this is a very rural part of Texas, and so it's
not hard for me to imagine them saying, you know what, we don't
want any of that transgender stuff here, and so this is what happens.
And I don't think this is as isolated as we'd like to think it is
in Texas. So with that in mind, attention are in the United States
in general, So with that in mind, I think it was the attention
that changed the situation. You know, I could think of years ago during
the Civil Rights movement. One of the tactics was to use media to show
people at lunch counters getting beat up or you know, pulled away, or
protesters getting dogs sit upon them or also flower horses on the right in order
for them to for for all of these for the world basically to see that,
hey, you know, the people who happened to be standing up for
civil rights. This is not These are not isolated incidents, and it's not
just in people's minds. It's really happened, and it really wasn't until like
you had like that world the world is watching you type thing happening until there
was like some type of like movement on the federal level to really create and
push legislation to change things. And you know, reading this particular story,
that's that's kind of like how I see it. It's like using media,
using people's voices, using these particular things to like show that you know,
this this kid is a kid. And the kid was only removed from this
production because they're transient full stop. You know, had nothing to do with
their ability to be able to act out of the part had nothing to do
with them not being able to have the capability of doing anything that was called
for him to do. You just removed him because he is not what you
want him to be. He does not fit this particular criteria. So I
now, Cindy, you mentioned that you don't really think that this particular incident
is going to be effective in really being a change agent per se. But
let's say, for instance, you had the attention to be able to put
in the catalysts for the change agent. What do you think could be the
thing that could really help communities and school districts work together to create environments where
all students feel safe and supported. Well, I'm sorry, I'm going to
repeat myself. Every single discrimination has a false information at its core, like
trans people are crazy or whatever, where homosexually see the choice, uh Mexicans
are are you know, lazy or other criminals, et cetera. And so
the there are two ways to fight this. Either you pick one topic and
try to defend the people who are discriminated against, and that's that's a valid
approach. But the other way is to attack the valid information at the core
of the discrimination, and to do that you need education and critical thinking.
You need both. So because when you when you listen to to the people,
uh the right wing talking about how talking about gay people makes people gay,
like, how does that work? Exactly? Exactly exactly, how many
gay people have been exposed to only straight movies and TV shows and books all
their lives and steal their gay So how can you touch the other way?
They have to touch us so the cooies can move from them to you.
Yeah, yeah, well then I should be the gay they ever ran into
the face of the earth. And if that's the case, yeah, it's
the frogs maybe. Yeah. No, It's the only way we can solve
this problem is education and critical thinking. That there is no other way.
But you know, Cindy, okay, so, and and I guess this
is like to the panel, like, please feel free to chime in because
I'm about to spitball if you don't mind, Like, I agree with you
that, you know, education and critical thinking is the way to be a
pathway to reason right to the point where when we are having these conversations about
people who happen to be different from the you know, well in America specifically
the majority, that then we can be like, Okay, we're not going
to give credence to any of these particular false notions or rhetoric that happens to
be talked about this particular group. But unfortunately, even if you happen to
be the most learned person ever in life, and you are constantly putting out
you know, information that compacts combats rather the propaganda that is actually you know,
espoused about a certain people. For some reason, it just seems like
it just goes through one ear and right out the other. And you know
how and I know for me, especially like you know, for a person
like you know, as we all are here because we care about the truth,
and we spend time making ourselves as educated as possible in order for us
to be as well informed as possible about the truth. Right. But you
know, but for some reason, it seems like that we are still in
this same you know circle of constantly you know, combating misinformation, you know,
inductrination and all the alls when it comes to like, you know,
having these particular conversations. So you know that, yeah, it can come
from random people. In my country, we have our driving license as points.
We have twelve points, and every time you speak too much of the
limit or any any other thing, you lose points. And when you reach
zero you have to go back to follow some some specific courses. And one
of them teaches you why it's wrong to act like this and and and this
is taught by people who teach people to drive. And so we need to
do the same like when someone commits racially motivated crime, instead of just going
to prison or paying a fine or something, they should go to a university
or whatever and they should learn about not because not not why they what they
did is wrong, but why what they believe is wrong and show them the
facts with with books, with studies, with everything, and going to the
source of the information. Because if if you social media are too polarizing,
uh when when when you see something you feel the need to answer quickly,
and so you don't think as much and so you're not touched as much by
what other people respond to. And so it needs to be from from the
top, from from the government, from uh, someone with authority to say,
okay, uh, yeah, no, Mexicans are not thieves. Look
look, look at the statistics, look at and and then go through the
the arguments and explain why the arguments are false and wrong. And that's the
only way to do it in my opinion. Infidel and Kelly, what do
you say to that, Well, one thing that I have to say is
is that right now we're so divided that I don't think there would ever be
any agreement on what is the right way. And I think you probably lost
half the United States when you said books, they seem to be one to
go quite the opposite direction, unfortunately, and that goes back to wanting a
dumbed down population and not warning proper education for them. So while I was
a little bit tongue in cheek, I do really believe that that's one of
our problems is we are so polarized at this point that I don't think that
we have any recognition of authority on either side to go, Okay, this
is what we do. Because if you had somebody who said, well,
no, we shouldn't be teaching people that Mexicans are thieves, you would find
thirty percent of the population out there who would be on your side by the
fault. So then it's about committing to the other ones, and that that's
why we're so split right now that I don't think that we can make that
decision. But I hope that is something that we can do in the future,
because you are right in the fact. Until we're honest and we can
call misinformation for what it is and actually have a conversation about it, we're
really not going to change anything because we're going to do exactly what Cynthia said
and that is is that we're going to talk. It's going to go in
one ear and out the other, and that is one of the things that's
trying. But I have to remember that there are people that do change their
mind, so you know what we're doing here. If somebody sees it and
just causes them to reconsider one bad idea, that's a step because nothing changes
overnight. But learning that one bad idea is something maybe I should get rid
of can help not just the trans community and just the mere right to exist,
but the whole realm of things. Because once you start deconstructing a real
sick and twisted mindset and worldview, that religion tends to get and that's where
a lot of this comes from. Once you start deconstructing, it's like pulling
a thread on that sweater. You never know where you're going to end up.
Do you think that we can combat one by idea, Kelly, Yeah,
I think we can. We have. I mean, that's that's history.
It's not something that happens overnight. It's something that takes time. It
takes people standing up. In fact. On that note, I wanted to
I was thinking we would be remiss if we didn't that throughout this episode at
one point didn't give up. Kudos to Max Hihtower and his father Philip for
standing up for what was right, and I really appreciate that they did that.
But yeah, I think I think we can do that. I think
we are doing that. One of the problems we have to fight now is
one of the ways that we can educate people to accept others is to breed
familiarity with those others. And that's when we get people in our society who
are being demon for things that they aren't. That's prohibiting that familiarity with them.
And I really think that is a process that's thought that's been thought through.
We're going to demonize these people because we don't want people to get to
know them, we don't want people to accept them. So yeah, kudos
to Max for you know, young high school kid stood up and made the
world a better place. So thank you Max. He's in his corner in
Texas, right, Yeah, yeah, that little candle. Indeed. Indeed,
Yeah, even though like I am, you know, a bit jaded,
I would definitely have to say only because like you know, bitten into
these particular circles where you are you know, doing the counter arguments, using
facts and data to actually bolster what you're saying. There still is I would
have to say, and this is even about personal experience, about having conversations
with people and actually presenting facts, and then that light comes on, like
I did not know that, right. And I even think about, like
the four of us that's even sitting on this panel right now, that you
know, at one point in our lives we were on one end of the
spectrum and now we're on another end of the spectrum. And I would argue
that it was good information that changed our minds from the bad information that we
received in the past.