WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:16.320 Hello, and welcome back to Chittheads. My name is Khalid and I'm one 2 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:22.280 of the learning navigators at Embodied Philosophy, and we have a luminous episode today 3 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:27.679 with Tracy Stanley, who is the author of the best selling book Radiant Rest 4 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:34.240 Yoga Nidra for Deep Relaxation and Awaken Clarity. She's the founder of Empowered Life 5 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:40.640 Circle, a sacred community and portal of practices, ritual and tontric teachings inspired 6 00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:46.240 by more than twenty five years of studentship in the Strevidia Tntra and the teachings 7 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:51.840 of the Himalayan Masters. As a post lineage teacher, Tracy is devoted to 8 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:57.920 sharing the wisdom of yoga, nidra, rest, meditation, self inquiry nature. 9 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:03.239 As a teacher and ancestor, Tracy is gifted in illuminating the magic and 10 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:10.599 power found in liminal space and we even devotion and practice into daily life. 11 00:01:10.760 --> 00:01:15.280 In this episode, Tracy and Jacob discuss our true nature and what gets in 12 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:19.680 the way of that, the extractive nature of the spiritual marketplace, and Sodena 13 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:25.879 as a source of creativity, clarity, and wisdom, which is perfectly in 14 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:30.719 alignment with Tracy's most recently published book, The Luminous Self Sacred. You'll get 15 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:41.120 practices and rituals to remember who you are. We hope you enjoy. So 16 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:44.719 I want to talk a little bit about kind of what you know led you 17 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:48.280 to the decision to write this book, which you know I've I mean I've 18 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:52.000 read it. I've gone from cover to cover, done my my typical like 19 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:55.400 reading reading the meat e bits and then and then skimming through some of the 20 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:57.680 rest. But I can tell just from what i've I've read of it it 21 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:02.239 is an absolutely beautiful book. And you know, the message is is so 22 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:07.159 perennial, right, It's obviously the teachings about our true self, our true 23 00:02:07.240 --> 00:02:10.599 nature and what gets in the way of that. But I found that as 24 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:16.319 I was reading it, what was so fresh about that otherwise perennial message is 25 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:21.479 just how much authenticity you bring to it and your own story. And I 26 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:24.080 just found it really beautiful. Also, the book is just like a compendium 27 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:30.439 of practices. I mean, it really is so chock full of useful practices. 28 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:36.159 So I'm just curious, kind of in the zeitgeist of now right in 29 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.800 terms of where we are in the world and what you have been perceiving that 30 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:45.240 your students or people have needed. What has inspired you to write this book 31 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:49.360 at this time. Yeah, that's a really great question. And what I 32 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:53.360 would tell you is that I visioned this book and had created the book proposal 33 00:02:53.439 --> 00:03:02.319 for this book and was out with it as a book proposal in early And 34 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:09.080 what I know now is that you know, I had gotten an offer from 35 00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:15.039 Shambala to write a book about Yoga Nidra, and I was very resistant to 36 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:17.599 wanting to write that book because I felt like, Oh, there's this book 37 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:21.759 already on Yoganidra, and this person is writing a book, and there's this 38 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:25.840 book. And at some point I kind of realized, because people started to 39 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:32.599 ask me do you have a book? Have you written a book and specifically 40 00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:37.479 about Yoganidra, that Yoga Nidra was the one that kind of wanted to come 41 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:43.400 forward first. And then I think also what happened with the pandemic is that 42 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:47.599 we realized right how exhausted we all were and how much we really needed rest, 43 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:53.479 and how much some of our practices that we might have been doing and 44 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.879 some of the surface level yoga practices that we had been doing for years might 45 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:02.280 not have been really supporting us in a time of deep crisis, and so 46 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:09.560 I started to think about this book again and thinking about it in a different 47 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:15.600 way, including how the pandemic had changed me, and you know, went 48 00:04:15.720 --> 00:04:21.600 back into the book proposal and really was able to kind of access another layer 49 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:28.959 of vulnerability in this telling of some of the stories that help hopefully to underpin 50 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:34.639 the philosophy and how the philosophy works, the philosophies of the yoga sutras that 51 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:41.319 I'm sharing and the clasias. And so I think for me, this book 52 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:46.319 was a seed for a little bit of time, and I think that I 53 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:53.399 just started watering it, you know, in twenty twenty two and thinking about 54 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:57.160 what really needed, what were the what are the practices because you said it's 55 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:00.279 like a compendian of practices, And what I really want wanted to offer that 56 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.199 I think was not in the first book proposal or in my first seed of 57 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:12.720 thought, was is there a book that is really like a practice manual for 58 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:17.680 life when you were feeling stuck that can help you at any moment. And 59 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:21.920 what are the practices that I have been given over the years that I've been 60 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:30.120 practicing that have been the most transformational. And so you know, these are 61 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:39.360 the practices that I'm offering. And I think that you know that it needed 62 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:44.040 to cook a little bit. Yeah, well that's what I really appreciated, 63 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:46.120 something that you write on early in the book about and I think is such 64 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:53.680 a good just in general, a good message to those who are taking up 65 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:58.279 the book as potentially a research for teaching, which of course it could be. 66 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:00.680 And you know, you present in some sense, as you know, 67 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:04.079 understanding that some of your audience are going to be teachers that might want to 68 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:11.720 extract some of the practices, and you make a point of saying, like, 69 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:16.639 you know, take these practices and steep in them for a period of 70 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:21.480 time before you then impart that. So I felt like you must have been 71 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.000 responding to what you sensed was sort of a habit in the spiritual marketplace to 72 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:32.639 just sort of grab bag spiritual practices and then you know, like read a 73 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:36.040 book once, just read through the practice and then take it into their yoga 74 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:40.759 class. Is that a little bit what you were observing? Yes, that's 75 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:45.000 exactly what I was observing. And what I would say is overall, I 76 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:50.399 think this the entire culture is extractive. Is that I would notice specifically in 77 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:56.120 classes that people would dip in, they would do the practice once and then 78 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:59.560 I would or they would hear a lecture and then I would see it as 79 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:03.160 a real on Instagram. Oh my gosh, and it's like, wait a 80 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:08.560 second, we need to practice these. And you know, if there's anything 81 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:13.839 that I'm really grateful for for the teachings that I received, was really this 82 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:20.480 idea around SODNA, around consistent practice, around devoted practice, and so yes, 83 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:26.639 I want us to be in relationship with the practices, because that's what 84 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.040 I'm offering is that I've done these practices. They were given to me, 85 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.399 some of them kind of came through me, but I lived with them for 86 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:41.120 a really long time, and from my unique experience now I'm able to share 87 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:44.399 them. And my hope is is that if someone reads this book and they 88 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:47.560 are a teacher, that they live with the practices and that they share them 89 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:50.839 in their unique voice, which is not going to be a parroting of what's 90 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:56.720 in the book, but something from their lived experience that actually is a transmission 91 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:01.560 and not a repetition of something that they memorized. Yeah. Yeah, I 92 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:07.279 really appreciate the spirit of that insight because it also I think we've probably had 93 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:13.000 similar formations with teachers where you know, like I I with from my who 94 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.199 I would say is my central meditation teacher. Like I wasn't even in a 95 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:20.160 position, and it was very clear that I wouldn't be permitted to to introduce 96 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:26.160 these meditation practices until several years of Sodona and a kind of educational process. 97 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:30.040 And you know, obviously it's not quite that intense with what you're offering, 98 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:35.360 but I think the sentiment is so important and something that's quite radical in the 99 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:37.799 in kind of in the face of what's happening, you know, in the 100 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:41.120 kind of spiritual marketplace these days. I was really happy that you that you 101 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:46.399 talked about that. So I want to talk a little bit about you know, 102 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.000 this happens very early on the book, the Egg Incident, And the 103 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:54.279 reason why this touched me so much is that I was really severely bullied in 104 00:08:54.679 --> 00:09:01.600 school. I went to a Christian Lutheran school, and and I was criticized 105 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:03.639 for or bullied for having like a high voice, called a girl all the 106 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:07.679 time, that sort of thing before I was called, you know, the 107 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:16.320 the F word, And so you know, having this like reading about your 108 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:22.480 experience of this kind of trauma of bullying and how it's how you related to 109 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:26.039 it and responded to it, and then how it kind of fed into the 110 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:28.519 substance of the book. I just thought was really moving, and so I 111 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.840 was hoping you could sort of talk a little bit about the relationship between that 112 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:37.840 kind of really early bullying incident and sort of this expansive openness towards yogic wisdom. 113 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.799 Yeah. So I had a bullying incident which you'll have to read in 114 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:50.440 the book, that happened when I was very young and great in middle school. 115 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:56.159 And you know, it was something that on the outside, I think 116 00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:58.679 if people look from the outside, they would say, oh, you just 117 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:01.720 of brushed it off. It's something that happened to you, but you just 118 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:05.639 kind of brushed it off. But if anyone was really looking, what they 119 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:13.240 would have noticed, and what I noticed later is that it changed the trajectory 120 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:18.480 of who I was, right, somebody who was really interested in learning and 121 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:24.600 excelling and you know, playing multiple instruments and wearing my glasses and you know, 122 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:30.320 just being whoever I was. And all of a sudden, I started 123 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:35.759 to peel back the things that were making me unique, right because I didn't 124 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:41.000 want to be seen, because being seen is different was going to mean that 125 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:46.159 I possibly would be in jeopardy, right, So I let go of all 126 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:52.159 of these things in order to stay safe. Right. And then some years 127 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:58.679 later after I'm kind of steeped in yogic understanding to the degree that I am 128 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:03.639 able to understand yoga. But I think it's like this much. But what 129 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:09.799 I understood from this idea of some scara and how imprints start to create a 130 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:13.840 coloring that was something that was like, okay, intellectually I get it. 131 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:18.399 It's like I understand how this can shape a life. Right. And then 132 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:24.559 at some point, this is back when I was producing films. I had 133 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:28.120 a really big movie that was coming out and it was one of the first 134 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.840 ones that I had brought into the company, and it was it was really 135 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:37.960 good, and we were having the premiere and I felt myself receding into the 136 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:45.120 background and hiding in the corner literally because I didn't want to be seen. 137 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:50.440 And I remember someone saying, oh, like, this is your big not 138 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:54.240 you know, your big night, like this this movie is going to be 139 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:58.679 a huge hit, and I had to really sit with and thank god I 140 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.559 had yoga at that time, and I had to sit with, oh, 141 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:11.360 there's a part of me that's afraid of being seen as successful, and then 142 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:13.600 I can go underneath that, there's a part of me that's afraid of being 143 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:20.639 seen. I need to do a VTR practice right now and figure out what 144 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:28.279 is the root of this. And as I did that VTR practice and VTR, 145 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:33.840 I think comes in many different forms. It's this idea of deliberation so 146 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.080 that you can arrive at the source of something or the cause of something, 147 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:41.919 and a lot of times we think about that as self inquiry. And so 148 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:48.399 I did this as a timeline practice where it took me kind of several days 149 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:52.279 to just with my journal to go back, well, when was the last 150 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.000 time I felt afraid of being seen as successful? And then I saw how 151 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:03.440 it was repeating itself through my entire life, including my career as a model, 152 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.720 like which is so hilarious that you would you know, I wanted to 153 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:11.000 travel the world, which is why I accepted modeling contract, but I didn't 154 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:20.320 want to be seen. So eventually I landed on this experience as the root 155 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:26.399 and I was like, Oh, this is how some scar shapes the life. 156 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.360 This is how Vostona shapes the life yeah, I want to read a 157 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.799 passage from your book which I thought was really beautiful. And actually there's an 158 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:39.440 additional portion of it that I won't read, but we'll just leave it as 159 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.919 a teaser for those who are listening so you can read the rest. But 160 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:48.039 I thought this idea of bug spotting on the windshields, I never heard it 161 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:50.559 kind of put in this way some scars, and I just want to read 162 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:56.440 a portion of it. You may remember, no, actually, okay, 163 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:00.320 it's going to start sort of mid sentence, but that's okay. You may 164 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:03.440 remember some of the memories that showed up on your screen of awareness during the 165 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:07.399 timeline rewind practice in the previous chapter. Read the book to find out what 166 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:11.440 that is. Each of those memories is formed from a some scara, the 167 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:16.960 bug colliding with your windshield. Some of the bugs make little splats and others 168 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.480 make the kind of huge, yellow, gooey splatters that make you think of 169 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:24.600 your think to yourself, I definitely have to wash my windshield at the next 170 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:28.519 gas station. But then at the gas station there is a distraction, some 171 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:33.759 chocolates you really want, and email dinging, your child needing your attention, 172 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:37.240 and you forget to wash the windshield off you go, then continuing your journey 173 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:41.879 with a dirty windshield. You try the next gas station and there are no 174 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:46.120 resources or tools to wash your windshield. No water, no squeegee, no 175 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:50.279 attendant to give you a hand. So you keep driving and it just keeps 176 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:54.519 accumulating more and more bugs. You try the windshield wipers and it creates a 177 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:58.000 giant smear. Now you can't really see what is in front of you. 178 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.039 All you see is a coloring. What you see through the windshield does not 179 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:05.120 accurately represent what is out in front of you. You have lost clarity, 180 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.799 perception, and vision. You can barely see the road ahead. After a 181 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:15.200 long while, you forget that the windshield was ever clear. That dirty windshield 182 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:20.440 seems perfectly normal. You've forgotten that you have an internal GPS because it is 183 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:26.120 obscured by the coloring and your attention is focused externally. I thought this is 184 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:30.759 one of the most beautiful parts of the book. And I really love when 185 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:35.919 narratives, you know, and a way of kind of depicting something through sort 186 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.200 of a picture or sequence, can capture the depth of a teaching And I 187 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:45.440 feel like this is just a really beautiful way of encapsulating some scar which, 188 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:50.000 as you've said, is this sort of groove or impression that takes on the 189 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:54.840 form of a kind of habituated way of seeing yourself. And you talk a 190 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:58.960 lot about this in the book, in the form of you know, different 191 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.679 yogic philosophical concepts, and one of the central ones, of course, is 192 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:10.039 is the clacias. And so I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit 193 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:11.720 about the claysias. We don't have to go into all all of them, 194 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:15.519 but maybe if you want to talk about what you think are kind of the 195 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:19.320 most are what are those obstacles, those claysias that are that are the most 196 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:26.759 common and that perhaps we need as a culture individually just generally need to sort 197 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.679 of think about or reflect on the most Yeah. So I think a lot 198 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:36.480 of us might be familiar with the term a VideA as this idea of misperception. 199 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:40.159 Right. We can think about the bugs on the on the windscreen as 200 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:44.519 a video, right like that we can't see clearly. And then there's this 201 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:48.879 idea that a VideA is actually four footed, and that it has four legs 202 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.919 or four feet, and so the feet would be raga, which is this 203 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:57.360 idea of attachment, like what's what am I attached to? The vasia is 204 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.480 like the aversion, and we can even think about that as a form of 205 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:06.880 hatred or you know, something that you really despise. Abinivatia is this fear 206 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:10.839 of death, and this is the one that I think causes us the most 207 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:17.799 suffering really, And Ashmita is this sense of I am nous that sometimes is 208 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:22.319 referred to as ego or putting yourself in the center, and I think about 209 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:26.000 that as like this human centric way that we are in the world. Right 210 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:32.680 It's like this idea of human supremacy is that we're supreme over everything. And 211 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:36.960 then there's different gradations of that as we think about different forms of oppression. 212 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.680 But for the most part, the fact that we are, in my opinion, 213 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:48.000 that we are disconnected from the fact that we are nature and that nature 214 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:53.119 is us is a source of a lot of pain and a lot of destruction 215 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:57.799 in the world. And that goes back to that word extraction that you used 216 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:04.319 earlier in our conversation, is that we're continually extracting until the earth becomes ill, 217 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:08.160 and we're not realizing that when we extract from the earth, we're extracting 218 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.480 from ourselves, and if the earth is ill, it means we are ill. 219 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:17.160 But we're unable to see that because there's too many things in our in 220 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:22.799 our vision, there's too many distractions. We're too out here looking for our 221 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:29.119 wholeness in the outside world as opposed to being in a place where we remember 222 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:36.759 that we're whole. This seems like such a kind of in a way fruitful 223 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:41.680 time for that, just because it does feel. And I've talked a lot 224 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.480 about this a little bit with some of my friends about how, you know, 225 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:49.519 in the wake of COVID, we didn't we haven't really grieved the grief 226 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:52.599 of that, right, we haven't really processed it. It was like it's 227 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:56.960 over, take off your masks, move on, moving forward, keep moving. 228 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.200 That didn't really happen, guys, And yet it shows up in all 229 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:04.480 these crazy ways. And of course people lost so much. And and I 230 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:08.240 know that you losing your yoga studio or closing your yoga studio. I don't 231 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:14.720 know what the circumstances were, but it what it's what I set out to 232 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:17.079 me, and why I'm wanted to bring it up is because I know that 233 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:22.000 you know, many of the listeners are yogis and yoga teachers probably probably many 234 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:26.480 of them had yoga teaching careers that were completely decimated by the pandemic. And 235 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:30.000 so when I when I was reading about you closing your yoga studio, it 236 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:34.720 kind of reminded me of of how many people have lost their businesses over COVID 237 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.519 and and I'm just I just wanted to know, you know, just personally, 238 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:45.640 like how you recovered from that and what you know, just for the 239 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:49.319 sake of you having that, you having that very specific experience that it turns 240 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:53.519 out many people probably have as well at this point, What spiritual and professional 241 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.400 recommendations do you have for teachers sort of in the wake of that kind of 242 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:03.440 a loss. Well, two things I would say. So, I closed 243 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:11.000 my yoga studio in twenty eleven, and it was a I would say it 244 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:17.680 was a very slow death. That what happened was I had a breakup with 245 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:25.000 my partner who was also my partner in the yoga studio, and I essentially, 246 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:30.839 without realizing it, put the yoga studio in hospice care. Without acknowledging 247 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.559 it, I was just like, Oh, we're just going to keep it 248 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:37.079 going. And I wasn't even living in the town anymore, you know. 249 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:41.519 It was just as like. And then at some point, and as you 250 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:45.960 read in the book, I realized that the glaciers were at play. I 251 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:52.000 realized that, oh, my identity is attached to being a yoga studio owner, 252 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.640 and this is like raga, I'm holding on with like a death grip 253 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.960 as opposed to like, what does this all mean? And so as I 254 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:04.720 started to kind of piece this together, I was like, Okay, this 255 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:08.519 is really about a ben evasia at the end of the end of the day, 256 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:14.680 this is really about the fear of death. Like, if I die 257 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.839 as a you know, my identity dies as a yoga studio owner, does 258 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:25.880 that mean that I'm no longer here? You know? And so it just 259 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:29.240 brings you right back to this question of who am I? And so I 260 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:37.079 think you're absolutely right. We haven't grieved the I think this unfortunate thing for 261 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:42.720 us is that we've lost so many rituals and rights of passage and we don't 262 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:52.839 acknowledge our grief in a way that is meaningful, especially in community, and 263 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:59.400 I think we're suffering for that. I do see a bit of a shift 264 00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:04.880 of change in people talking about grief and people being in community with grief. 265 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:11.279 You know, teachers like Michelle Cassandra Johnson and Reggie Hubbard are doing this work. 266 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:12.799 There are many others, but those are the two that come to mind 267 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:18.319 right now. Yeah. And so what I would say is for teachers who 268 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:25.960 have lost something is and this is really what this book is about, is 269 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.440 that I feel like in two ways, this book is the squeegee for the 270 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:37.720 windshield and it is also the permission for you to create your own ritual because 271 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.279 the rituals have been lost. Yeah. And I think that any time that 272 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.680 we go through a transition, which if we think about a transition, a 273 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:52.359 transition is a form of death because there is something ending, there is going 274 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.279 to be a pause. There's going to be a long space of void, 275 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:59.480 which is what we all experience. During the pandemic. Some of us were 276 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:03.000 able to say, sit in that void and be with the unknown and partner 277 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.200 with the unknown, and notice what came up. And some of us, 278 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.440 and this is not any judgment in any way, became distracted and wanted to 279 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:15.519 fill that space. And I think that we don't need a crisis to create 280 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:21.599 a transition for us. We can actually say I'm going to create the transition. 281 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:26.799 I'm going to create a space where I can honor what was and celebrate 282 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:33.240 what's coming. Even if I don't know what's coming, there's always going to 283 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:36.920 be a rebirth. That's just the cycle of nature, and when we're disconnected 284 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:41.759 from nature, we forget that that is just the way the world works, 285 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:49.839 is that it's cycles, it's seasons. So what I would offer to people 286 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:56.720 whose businesses might have been decimated, and I'm seeing this already in my community, 287 00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:02.119 is that in that space, I think that there were a lot of 288 00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:06.400 people, like you said, whose businesses shifted and they could no longer make 289 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:12.200 a living teaching yoga, but they reconnected back to something that was important to 290 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:18.960 them. Right, I'm seeing so many people going back to school and studying, 291 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:25.400 becoming therapists, taking the tools that they've been honing through yoga for the 292 00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:30.359 last decade or however long, and adding a new modality to that to make 293 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:36.839 their life richer. And so what I would say is, sit with this, 294 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:42.160 create a ritual to really honor what you left behind, and also just 295 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:47.160 think about all of the things that maybe came from a long time ago, 296 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.799 that were your inspirations, the things that lit you up that brought you joy 297 00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:56.519 that you've always wanted to do, and see how you can create something new. 298 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:02.240 Because I do think that this world old of you called it the spiritual 299 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:07.920 marketplace. I think this world of yoga as we have known it for the 300 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:11.519 last I'm going to say thirty years, because that's how long I've been practicing, 301 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:17.720 but going to a studio doing yoga in a specific way, I think 302 00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:26.200 that's changing. And I think that yoga teachers are adding more wisdom from other 303 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.720 modalities, including yoga, into whatever it is that they're offering, and that 304 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:37.759 is going to make this world hopefully a richer place. What a beautiful answer, 305 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:42.000 Tracy. A couple of things really resonated with me. One just the 306 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:47.440 going back to things that used to give you joy. I know that this 307 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:52.400 is particularly palpable for me because I actually just last night went to see Old 308 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:57.519 Friends, which is the stephensonheime kind of review that's starring Brenette Peters and Leaslonga. 309 00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:00.039 I grew up loving musical theater and I wanted to be on Broadway, 310 00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:07.440 and Stephen Sondheim was sotive formative for me, and like I was, he 311 00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:11.960 was my favorite composer and I realized. I realized. I didn't realize until 312 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:14.359 I went to see the show last night just how much I hadn't grieved his 313 00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:17.839 loss and and and and really acknowledged what he meant to me. And I 314 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.480 was just like I was weeping, you know, But it was also this 315 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:23.079 kind of like remembering, Oh wow, Like I love musical theater, I 316 00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:26.319 love going to see shows. I love the theater in general, and and 317 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.559 and that hasn't been as central to kind of my life and and yet it 318 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:34.160 does bring me so much, so much joy. So I really feel that 319 00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:38.519 that recommendation and then in terms so that to me is a ritual just going 320 00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:44.039 to the theater. But about the ritual thing, I'm curious what you think 321 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:45.920 about, because something that was really central to your book is this idea of 322 00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:53.960 community care and and and I know that it can sometimes seem like and and 323 00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:00.519 occasionally the quote unquote spiritual marketplace has been criticized for being very individualistic. Right, 324 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.440 so it's just about your own self care, rituals, and your own 325 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:10.599 enlightenment. And there's a lack of attention to the socioeconomic circumstances, you know, 326 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:15.240 political circumstances, what have you systems of oppression and their effects on the 327 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:21.599 you know, current moment, and so, you know, I feel like 328 00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:26.240 the community care element of your book is drawing attention to the need for communally 329 00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:32.559 situated rituals, and so I'm curious what you would say is sort of the 330 00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:36.680 relationship between those rituals that you do need to do on your own and just 331 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:41.720 do make sense to have individually for yourself and the one and how those are 332 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.720 situated within a kula or a larger kind of communal dynamic. Yeah. I 333 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:52.480 think that through ritual we learn and we remember, and I think it is 334 00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:57.960 our duty to be honest that we share what we learn and what we remember, 335 00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:03.519 because is what heals our heart has the potential to heal others' hearts. 336 00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:11.440 And I think that if we hold on and I've seen this in spiritual community 337 00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:17.599 before, where people want to hold on, they receive teachings, And this 338 00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:22.680 I think is problematic in a hierarchical system, right, is that you receive 339 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:27.000 a teaching, you do the practice for you know, however many years or 340 00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:34.480 months, whatever it is, and then it's almost like the instruction is almost 341 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:41.519 to hold you hold the practice and you don't share it right, And so 342 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:48.720 it creates this form of scarcity, which I think makes people feel as though 343 00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:55.720 they're not spiritually abundant because they don't have access. And this is another form 344 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:03.839 in a way of just a hierarchy that some people have access to teachings and 345 00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:07.680 some people don't. And so I think when we're in community, there are 346 00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.720 ways in which we can share the boons of the practices that we have done. 347 00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:21.519 And I think that that, to me is a yoga of devotion because 348 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:26.640 we're not in this alone. Yeah, and again going back to the Earth 349 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:37.559 as a kind of inspiration, is that Earth thrives in biodiversity. Earth thrives 350 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:41.799 in the community of all the species and beings that are on its land. 351 00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:49.880 One thing is not going to be able to thrive alone. So we need 352 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:55.039 to be able to be in community. And I think that when we practice 353 00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:02.480 ritual, it's as simple as one to two to three people coming together to 354 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:07.160 sit in silence, to meditate together, to chant together, to cry together. 355 00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:12.640 That's all that's needed. You don't need like a huge list of things. 356 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:18.240 Yes, it's nice to have the hoven and the samagris and the few 357 00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.319 month through a book, but we don't need that, and I think that 358 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:25.720 that's part of the issue, is that we think that if we're going to 359 00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:30.319 create a ritual, that it has to look like it does on Instagram, 360 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.240 with all the flowers and all the incense and all the things the crystals send 361 00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:38.319 the essential oils. Yes, I mean I have the crystals beyond and I 362 00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:45.200 have the incense burning. But I can also be in a room by myself 363 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.279 and invite two people in and we can have nothing, and we can be 364 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:55.240 a deeper ritual without anything. Yeah, it's really interesting what you said, 365 00:30:55.240 --> 00:31:02.880 because initially I was thinking of asking you about the difficulty that some people who 366 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:07.160 are listening might imagine it is to actually build this type of community, because 367 00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.960 there's actually been I hadn't. I did some interviews with some yoga teachers when 368 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:17.079 we were doing this kind of Future of the Yoga Teacher project, and a 369 00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:18.759 couple people were like, I have no one here. You know, there's 370 00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.200 like there's there's no one around to teach, you know, there's no yoga 371 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:26.319 studios, blah blah blah. But she had created a very small group of 372 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:32.759 women who met relatively regular and it was a very casual thing. And when 373 00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:36.720 you when you kind of boiled it down to two or three people. I 374 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:41.640 think many people listening can imagine, you know, finding that kindred one or 375 00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:47.240 two kindred spirits and that it sounds like is enough if it if it has 376 00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:52.400 that sort of that that openness to the spiritual you know, dimension or whatever 377 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.519 you want to call it. So so it isn't so much that you need 378 00:31:55.640 --> 00:32:01.759 to find your koola of one hundred devotees too, Swami something something, Ananda. 379 00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:09.880 It's that it's just finding, Is it to you more like finding a 380 00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:15.000 group of kindred spirits who are equally committed to going deep in this way? 381 00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.279 Yeah? I think that first of all, all you need is to other 382 00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:29.200 people. And I think that it doesn't even need to be necessarily a kindred 383 00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:36.319 spirit, but someone who is open to learning, to receiving, someone who 384 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:42.720 wants to be out of pain, and you happen to have the tool somebody 385 00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:46.240 who needs someone to hold space for them because a loved one is ill or 386 00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:51.920 a loved one has transitioned, and you have the ability to hold space because 387 00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:59.400 maybe you've been there before. So we have opportunities all the time to be 388 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:05.480 inmmunity. We can be in community literally when we're standing at the line in 389 00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:14.000 the checkout at the grocery store. I wish I'm going to have to take 390 00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:21.000 some more time at that line. People are not very openly friendly here here 391 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.640 in London, I have to say, so I used to live in London. 392 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:28.359 I remember that. Yeah. There. Actually it's much there's a much 393 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:30.079 more of a communal sort of spirit, I would say in New York than 394 00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:32.960 there is in London, even though people would never expect that from New Yorkers, 395 00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:37.480 but there really is. Anyway, I wanted to take this moment to 396 00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:40.960 read another passage from your book. This is actually one of your I guess 397 00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:45.599 you'd call it one of your poems that begins one of the chapters. And 398 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:49.039 so all of these are very beautiful and they're threaded throughout the book for those 399 00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:53.960 that are listening. And again, in addition to these beautiful poems that obviously 400 00:33:54.079 --> 00:34:00.240 are upsurges of creativity that have kind of been born of Tracy's. So there's 401 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:07.319 then, of course the sodenas that could also help to cultivate that in you 402 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:12.320 as well. And this is actually one of the beautiful things I think about 403 00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:15.599 sodena and that I see really evident in your book. In addition to just 404 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:22.280 the authenticity that kind of that just kind of feels that permeates. It is 405 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:28.800 the way in which this your Soden has clearly given birth to creativity, because 406 00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:35.639 in my experience, that's so much of what Sodena gives is because clarity and 407 00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:40.440 wisdom is some sort of uprising of creativity in some keep way, but anyway 408 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:45.559 to read this poem of yours, am I asleep or am I awake? 409 00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:51.239 Let me lean into the practices that fortify my discernment. Remind me to turn 410 00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:55.199 my face toward the light of divine intelligence. The door to the prison cell 411 00:34:55.360 --> 00:35:00.480 is open. A tune me to the vibration of truth and amp fy my 412 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:05.159 core frequency so I can taste my true nature. I trust that I can 413 00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:09.519 hold both fierce compassion and the power to wield the sword to cut through any 414 00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:15.199 demon. I lay down fear as I walk through the sacred portal toward freedom. 415 00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:19.960 I honor the transition. I reclaim my magic within the void. I 416 00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:23.360 only need to remember. Now let me sleep. Now, let me ask 417 00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:30.800 again, am I asleep or am I awake? So beautiful, I'm going 418 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:34.880 to ask you later if I can post that to our Instagram feed. Yeah, 419 00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:42.400 of course, So I wanted to ask a question about that. I 420 00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.360 think I've asked it a few times. I think in the history of this 421 00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:50.519 podcast, when we start to talk about the true self, and you know, 422 00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:54.880 our essential nature as being kind of beyond names and forms and having a 423 00:35:54.920 --> 00:36:01.920 sort of formless eternal quality, and there is a sort of there is an 424 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:07.800 I don't know what I want to call it, a controversy or a dialogue, 425 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.320 let's say for it to make it sound less dramatic around you know that 426 00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:15.039 these tears of our identity, and you describe it in your book as the 427 00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:21.400 personality and another you know, and the other being our eternal self. And 428 00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:24.599 we have these sort of in dialogue and in some kind of relationship, and 429 00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:30.559 sometimes, as you are well aware, there is this this kind of thread 430 00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:37.400 of spiritual wisdom that suggests one should kind of mute one's individuality repress it. 431 00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:39.679 In some sense. It kind of reminds me of what you said earlier about 432 00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:47.039 hiding from yourself in a way, and confusing the hiding from yourself and muting 433 00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:52.119 your individuality and confusing that with realizing your true nature in a way, like 434 00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:59.480 maybe that's something. So there's this there's this there's this kind of well, 435 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:02.760 our truth is beyond all forms, and therefore, like, just get over 436 00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.519 your individuals out, get over these things about your own identity, get over 437 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:14.239 all these needs to affirm your own kind of idiosyncrasies in comparison to other people. 438 00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:17.039 Forget about all this oppression stuff. It's just in your imagination, right, 439 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:23.039 Like, that's a very easy misunderstanding, I would say, right of 440 00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:28.039 the team. Yeah, I feel like that is also a form of spiritual 441 00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:30.079 bypassing, to be honest. Yes, right, So can you talk a 442 00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:36.320 little bit about that, Like, what is the relationship between the needs of 443 00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:39.840 let's say, let's I think some teachers have called it like integration psychological integration 444 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:45.239 on the one hand, and the needs of also kind of sociocultural affirmations, 445 00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:54.639 liberations, emancipations, rectifying of cultural imbalances and oppressions, and the relationship with 446 00:37:54.760 --> 00:38:00.440 one's true self. Love this question. So the first thing that I would 447 00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:06.719 say is the people in my community and myself. I can only speak to 448 00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:10.320 my experience. We're not living in a cave. I'm not living in a 449 00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:15.079 cave. You know. I do live on a mountain, but I'm not 450 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:19.000 living in a cave I don't have. I'm not practicing, you know, 451 00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:23.400 all day and all night and have people bring me chai and lunch and dinner 452 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:32.519 and have no worries in the world. We need to eat that, you 453 00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:37.480 know. And I feel like we're in the world, and we have to 454 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:44.920 be able to live in the world and yet remain above the world in a 455 00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:47.679 certain way, right, And when I say above the world, it's not 456 00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:57.199 a hierarchical way. It's not getting caught permanently in the enmeshment of all the 457 00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:05.480 distractions of the overculture. And when we're able to be above, we have 458 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:12.960 a different perspective, right, because we're able to see the injustices. We're 459 00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:20.159 able to see and celebrate the uniqueness of individuals and their unique expression, which 460 00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:28.280 is why I believe we're here, right. And so if we can celebrate 461 00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:35.800 others unique expressions, and we can also recognize that our true self is connected 462 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:43.559 to everything and everyone that is, that the actual universe and the cosmos has 463 00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:50.199 all of these patterns that are also inside of our bodies, then what does 464 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:58.400 that mean for who and what we are? So I'm sorry, but I'm 465 00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:05.239 not buying into the this idea that we need to eradicate, you know, 466 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:10.239 the ego. I think we need to be aware of how the ego keeps 467 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:15.880 us in pain. Right, That's that's what I like to do, is 468 00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.559 look and see how is how is my ego? And this is a you 469 00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:22.559 know, going back to the loss of the yoga studio, right, how 470 00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:28.360 is the loss of this yoga studio creating suffering in me? And how can 471 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:34.159 I bring in more freedom and more space? How can I remember that I 472 00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:42.079 am not this thing, this you know, this form, right, Yes, 473 00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:49.400 I'm also not the name, but I am this creativity. I am 474 00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.840 this uniqueness that's expressing itself in the world. And it's a both. And 475 00:40:55.199 --> 00:41:01.360 I'm not interested in this lifetime of releasing the both. And I think that's 476 00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:07.239 the beauty of being alive, is that I get to know that I'm connected. 477 00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:09.840 I also get to know that I'm unique, and part of my uniqueness 478 00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:15.360 allows me to be in my creativity and to share so that others can express 479 00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:22.440 themselves, hopefully in their own creativity and they can find more freedom in their 480 00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:27.000 own life and then pass that on. That's what I think we're here for. 481 00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:32.039 Hmm. I mean I would agree that I love that I sort of 482 00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:37.920 I love the sort of nondual, tontric resonance of so much of what you've 483 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:42.800 just said. It's really beautiful. And as someone who feels very enlivened by 484 00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:49.599 that philosophy myself, it seems like a perfect note to end on. So 485 00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:52.960 of all the things we've discussed, which I feel like we've covered a lot 486 00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:55.840 of ground in such a short time, But is there anything else that maybe 487 00:41:57.320 --> 00:42:00.920 we haven't touched on that you think is a really central feed of the book, 488 00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:04.760 or a teaching or just a point of view or perspective that you feel 489 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:10.239 like is important to share, You know, I would say one of the 490 00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:15.719 titles of one of the chapters is that which makes you fall is that which 491 00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:22.480 makes you rise? And I would just want everyone to remember that anything that 492 00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:30.599 has ever caused them pain or stuckness or discomfort is a portal to freedom and 493 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:38.519 awakening. Beautiful. So I've been speaking with Tracy Stanley, and we've been 494 00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:44.000 speaking about the content of her latest book, The Luminous Self, which will 495 00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:47.519 be released in Can you give us a date to Tracy when it'll be Yeah, 496 00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:52.800 October tenth, October tenth, So we are in the sixth of October 497 00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:57.760 right now where we're doing this interview, twenty twenty three. So if you're 498 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.440 listening to this before then, which you probably aren't, because I think it's 499 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:04.880 going to take us about a week to publish, so the book is probably 500 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:08.039 available as you are listening. And of course, if you're listening to this 501 00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:13.719 far into the future, then I'm sure you can find her book by heading 502 00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:19.760 to Amazon and all the other online bookstores I imagine would have the book, 503 00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.360 but definitely Amazon, I'm sure. Yeah. And on my website, which 504 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:29.320 is Tracystanley dot com, there's a link to all the independent bookstores and all 505 00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:32.199 the places where you can find the book. Beautiful and Tracy, is there 506 00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:36.760 anything else that you want to share with our listeners about what's coming up for 507 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:38.840 you? Are you offering any workshops, are you doing any courses? What's 508 00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:46.920 happening? Yes, So I have a workshop that's happening at Cropoulu coming up 509 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:53.719 in October. I also have something that I'm doing with wonder Lust in Mexico 510 00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:00.800 in December, and something with Modern Elder Academy on the Power of deep Rest 511 00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:05.440 happening in February. And then of course I have my writing and resting retreat 512 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:08.519 that happens at Ghost Ranch next year, and a retreat in Costa Rica. 513 00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:12.679 But you can find all those things on my website. Writing and Resting. 514 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:16.599 When is that? That's going to be in September of next year. It's 515 00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:22.599 such a great workshop and experience to be in silence and spaciousness and have the 516 00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:28.039 time to be able to really dive into work. And I love that. 517 00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:30.079 I love that. I kind of want to go to that myself. Where 518 00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:36.440 is it happening Ghost Ranch in New Mexico in Abocu, New Mexico. Oh, 519 00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:40.280 maybe this is my chance? Yeah, here we go. Well, 520 00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:44.199 Tracy, it's been such a pleasure chatting with you. Thank you so much 521 00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:47.079 for sharing your wisdom with us and writing such a beautiful and authentic book. 522 00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:52.320 It really it means a lot to the community. Thank you so much for 523 00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:52.920 having me, Jacob, It's been an honor.